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An Unusual Bishop Interviewed in Cuba

Posted By Circles Robinson On June 10, 2015 @ 11:46 am In
Highly Popular Posts,Interviews,Yusimi Rodriguez | No Comments
By Yusim Rodrguez (Photos Juan Suarez)

[1]

Archbishop Roger LaRade in Havana.

HAVANA TIMES What could surprise me after seeing a Catholic
nun with polished fingernails and toenails, who was going to take
part in the May 9th Gay Pride Parade of the Cuban Campaign

against Homophobia, wearing her habit? Well, I guess only a

Catholic Bishop who would also march in the parade with his
habit and his husband.
Sister Silvia and Archbishop, Roger LaRade, belong to the
Independent Catholic Churches (independent from the Vatican),
specifically to the Eucharistic Church [2]. She told me his story in a
few words, just the necessary ones to get me interested: a
former Jesuit Priest, Roger LaRade abandoned the Roman
Catholic Church and ended up becoming an Independent Catholic
priest. Even though her own story is a fascinating one, she
arranged this interview with Father Roger before he left Cuba,
barely a week after the May campaign.

A spiritual struggling
Father Roger, or just Roger as he insisted I call him, was born on
the East coast of Canada 58 years ago. His family was Roman
Catholic and went to Mass every Sunday. He remembers his
grandparents saying the rosary, but besides from that they were
not particularly religious. It was in high school, while wondering
what he would do with his life, that he became aware of the call.
Roger: But for me, one of the big issues was celibacy. So I
decided I couldnt be a priest.
HT: Did you already know you were gay?
Roger: I have no memory of not knowing.
HT: How could celibacy be a bigger issue than
homosexuality, since the Roman Catholic Church is against
homosexuality?
Roger: For the Roman Catholic Church, homosexuality is not a
sin in itself, but it is directed towards sin. The only way it can be
acceptable is that homosexuals live celibate.
HT: What if I live with a woman, as a couple, without
having sex? Love is not only about sex.
Roger: They might say it is OK. Recently, in Ontario, it was
discovered that a gay man very active in his Roman Catholic
parish lived with his partner. The Bishop said he couldnt be

involved in the Church anymore. He replied: We live together but

we dont have sex. I dont know how they resolved it.

I decided to study Astronomy instead of Priesthood. One

university where I could do this was Jesuit. I didnt realize that at
the beginning and I had not met Jesuits before.
[3]

After the first year I realized Astronomy was not for me, the
spiritual part inside was not satisfied.
There was a period of spiritual struggling. When I finally said
God, if you want me to be a priest I will do it, and You will give
me the grace I need, I felt liberated.

Not about celibacy

HT: And celibacy?
Roger: I decided to give it over to God.
He began to study Philosophy and became active at the Roman
Catholic Church in the university. When the time came to decide
what kind of a priest he wanted to be, he decided to become a
Jesuit, because they had a clear sense of mission, and were

deeply committed with faith and social justice

.
After the two year noviciate he took he vows and was sent to a
Jesuit university in Washington State, where he studied
Education and Theatre and got a master degree. Then, after also
getting a master degree in Theology, he was ordained a Priest on
May 31, 1986. Afterwards, he did postgraduate studies for a
year, in theatre, this time combining it with Theology and
Canadian Aboriginal Studies, in Berkeley California.
Roger had been honest to his Jesuit superiors when he applied
and during his whole training. After the first year of noviciate he
came out to the rest of the group. They were nineteen, nobody
else came out.
Roger: It is said, in the Roman Catholic orders that between
30% and 50% are gay, and those might be conservative
numbers.
I think there is something about being gay that orients us
towards the spiritual. I dont know if it is sensitivity or a previous
experience of discrimination; it can be in very subtle ways. We
grew up in heterosexual families, and with time we discovered we
were different, and we received the message that being gay is
not accepted. We grow up with a sense of being alone. Even if
discrimination was not directed at me, I heard my friends use the
words: faggot, fag
So, perhaps, the experience of oppression connects with
spirituality, even though the Church itself is an instrument of
discrimination. But the Church is not spirituality, and is not God.
It is representative of God in many aspects, but I have come to
realize that not in all aspects.

HT: Why did you leave the Jesuit Order? Did you want to
break celibacy and be with a man?
[4]

Roger: I know a lot of Christians that grow up with a sense of

guilt about being homosexual. For me, there was never a
contradiction between being gay and being loved by God.
After my ordination and my studies I was assigned to be Priest of
a Jesuit University in Canada. I very much enjoyed it. After two
years, a prominent Roman Catholic man wrote something very
negative about homosexuals and homosexuality in the local
paper. Because of my training as a Jesuit: faith connected to
social justice, I felt I couldnt be silent about that.

HT: Did you react just as a Jesuit priest committed to

social justice, not as a homosexual yourself?
Roger: For me, the primary issue of social justice was social
justice for LGBT individuals. I decided to write a response letter
that challenged the position of the Roman Catholic Church. It was
published and it caused problems, because it is an issue of power.
Those who have it have the ear of the Bishop. I was told I
couldnt say that because it was against what the Church teaches.
I realized that as a Roman Catholic Priest I was primarily an
agent of the institution. And for me, the teaching of the Church
on homosexuals was not and is not compatible. I decided it was
more important for me to be authentic as a gay man than to be a
priest in the Roman Catholic Church. It was not about celibacy,
but about who I am as a person.
HT: So, a straight priest, also committed to social justice,
wouldnt have felt affected by the discrimination against
homosexuals?
Roger: Certainly, at that time, late 198, I dont think that would
have been the case. Now, in 2015, I think it is much more so,
because of what is happening with LGBT rights and visibility in
society. It could be about other issues, like the inclusion of
women in priesthood and the issue of married clergy. Many
Roman Catholics have left priesthood because they wanted to get
married.
HT: Whats your opinion about that?
Roger: Celibacy has a long history in the Church, from the very
beginnings. After the Resurrection and Ascension of Christ, many
people decided to follow Him by being celibate, because He was
celibate. The first Apostles left their wives and families based on
that. At the beginning, the Church had married clergy. Over the
centuries, the Church as an Institution said that Clergy should be
celibate. Part of it had nothing to do with spirituality but with
finances and mobility. The explanation of the Catholic Church for
celibacy now is that if you dont have children and spouse you are
more available. But there are other churches with married

ministers. I dont think they are less available than catholic

priests.
I also think there is no incompatibility between being a priest and
being a woman. The fact that Christ was born a man doesnt
mean that only men can be priests.

Our future as a couple

Back to his life, Roger tells me that in 1990 he left Priesthood and
moved to Toronto. He had to find an apartment and a job. As a
Jesuit he had been supported by the Church.
Roger: At 34, I began to live the life most people live at 24, but I
never regretted my time as a Jesuit priest. It contributed to who I
am today.

In 1991, I met Mark at a conference in Chicago. Three weeks

later he came to Toronto for a first visit. He was living in Ohio and
teaching at a university. We kept a long distance relationship.
Both were open to moving to the other ones city. At the same
time, Mark was offered a job that meant the next step in his
career. So they kept the long distance relation for three years,
[5]

until Mark began the process to become a resident of Canada.

Roger: We wanted to be together but the ultimate decision was
in the hands of the government. It was a very formal process in
which he had to give all his documentation, income statement,
etc. My mother wrote a letter he included in his application,
together with a letter from me describing our relationship.
I had come out to my family right after ordination, I was still a
priest. My siblings reacted very positively. My mother had a little
difficulty at the beginning. My father was already dead. It is
usually more difficult for gay men to come out to their fathers
because of the stereotypes of masculinity, but I didnt go through
any of that.
They were advised to take the application to Detroit, where there
were people who were very friendly to homosexual applications.
Roger: Our future as a couple was being determined by someone
other than us.
It took four months. On the day Canadians celebrate Queen
Victorias birthday, Mark received his official acceptance. He
moved to Toronto in August, 1995.
Same sex marriage became legal in Ontario in June, 2003. They
had always said that they would marry when that happened. And
they did, in that province, in July 2003. It was also in 2003 when
Roger joined the Catholic Independent Churches as a priest.

An independent Catholic Priest

Roger: When I left the Jesuits and moved to Toronto, I went to
Church a little but I stopped going because I couldnt find
anything that was compatible for me. I was making friends in the
gay lesbian community, so they came to know about my
background. One time, a lesbian couple, friends of mine, asked
me if I could bless their union. They wanted to have a ceremony.
Before marriage was legal, we called them Holy Unions: Unions of

same sex couples blessed by God. At first I wasnt sure I wanted

to be seen as a priest again, but eventually, I thought: Well,
whats the harm? I did it, and some six months later someone
asked me for the same thing.
I think those experiences made me recover my vocation as a
priest. But I didnt have anywhere to practice. In 2003, I
discovered these small churches that were Catholic but were not
under the authority of the Vatican.
There was one in Toronto and they had a website. I wrote to the
Bishop telling him who I am and giving him all my background. I
asked if it was possible for me to be a priest for his church, being
married to a same sex partner, and living it openly. It was. That is
how I restarted ministry as a Catholic priest.
As I have always felt this love for San Francisco, since
adolescence. I wanted to have a Franciscan community within
Church. That happened in 2006.

[6]

Sister Silvia
Sister Silvia, whos remained silent all the time, ready to help
with translation if necessary, speaks for the first time to tell
Roger he is forgetting to say something about himself: he has
studied to be an analyst.
Roger says that is just how he makes his living and Sister Silvia
remarks that is an interesting part of their church.
Sister Silvia: Unlike the Roman Church, we all have jobs.
I think that the philosophical theological learning together with
this other background make Archbishop Roger unique in the way
he writes homilies. In all the years I was a Roman Catholic, I
never experienced that love of God, and I know I have

experienced this inclusive love of God through his modelling. Not

so much because of talking, but because of doing.

What God wants

HT: What do the Independent Catholic Churches have in
common with the Roman Catholic Church?
Roger: A lot. As a Catholic Church, we come from the same
sources. In the Roman Catholic Church, the concept of faith, the
ordination of bishops comes from the very beginning and has
continued through the centuries. It is called Apostolic Succession;
in the Roman and Orthodox churches, it is what makes the
ordination, the Eucharist, the Mass and everything valid. The
Independent Catholic Churches have made sure to maintain that.
But more important, we, as a progressive, inclusive catholic
church, root ourselves in catholic traditions. We believe in God
the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. We have the same
understanding of the Church of God, the need for Bishops, for the
Eucharist, for a vocation for religious life. We have the same
understanding, in many areas, of social justice and human rights.
We differ primarily in issues of full and equal inclusion of all
people disrespected of sexual orientation, gender and gender
identity. For us, married clergy and women can be ordained. The
inclusion of LGBT people at all levels of the church; marriage for
gays and lesbians in the church, not just supporting it as civil
marriage, but supporting and celebrating it as the sacrament of
matrimony. We allow divorced people to remarry in the church,
and we also support artificial contraception for family planning. To
use artificial means to avoid pregnancy is not sinful. The
Theological Commission that worked to give this proposal to Pope
Paul VI came up with the same conclusion, but he later affirmed
the belief of the Roman Catholic Church that the use of these
means was sinful. We are not doing this because we think that
the Roman Catholic Church is wrong, but because it is possible
and it is what God wants. We are just witness of the infinite love
of God for all people.

We are talking about human life

HT: What is the position about abortion?
Roger: Similar to the Roman Church. We believe the human life
and the soul of the human person occur at conception. So, we
can not agree or teach that abortion is a moral choice that can be
made. It is hopeful that the reasons leading to abortion: poverty,
social situation or even selfishness, will end.
HT: What about a woman who has been raped?
Roger: Thats a very difficult situation. What I know is that there
are women who decide to abort and women who decide not to. To
say that there are extreme situations where a woman has to
make such a decision is to assert a reality that exists, but it is not
to say that it is a morally correct decision. What we are really
talking about is human life.
HT: What about sex change operation? God made you a
man, no matter if you like women or men. Going through
surgery to change your sex doesnt go against Gods
design?
Roger: I dont think so. Gender identity has never been my
personal issue. From my reading and my speaking to transgender
people, my understanding is that these people feel a
disconnection between their internal sense of a person and their
physical appearance. So, in order to bring those in line, they feel
they need a physical change. It seems legitimate to me. We make
physical changes to our bodies for all kinds of reasons.
HT: What about open marriages, which I have seen mainly
in gay couples?
Roger: I dont know if it still happens in heterosexual marriages.
In the late sixties and the seventies, with the sexual liberation, at

least in North America, many heterosexual couples opened up

their marriages. We still believe, as a church that marriage is
between two individuals and that part of the vocation of marriage
is chastity within the marriage. That includes same sex
marriages.
HT: Have you ever thought about adopting children?
Roger: Mark and I are very happy uncles to our nieces and
nephews. But it is OK within our church for gay people to adopt
children. Parents do not need to be of opposite genders to love,
nurture and teach their children.
HT: Thank you so much.

La Eucharistic Catholic Church is present in Canada, Camerun,

and soon, God willing, in Cuba. For any further information write
to silvia@silviagonzalez.org [7]

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