Shelby White Interview

JS: Okay, so, for this essay, were trying to talk about the Sustainable Goals of the
UN, and this one is about gender inequality and empowering women, and were
trying to answer the question of how might we achieve these goals, especially
relating to our community. So, do you think, like, gender inequality (and that kind of
thing) is a problem here?
SW: Well, thats actually a really tough question, because like, I live a fairly
sheltered life, so for me to
JS: But even from being in town, and at the school, do you kind of get the vibe?
SW: Being in school- a little bit. Again, I dont leave my house much, so I cant speak
for the community, but for the school, its just hints, here and there. I dont think its
in your face type of sexism, like Oh gosh, men are the one! But, its there.
JS: What kind of examples?
SW: Like how we were talking earlier- with the dress code, definitely. It is a huge
thing, and you always get like the old justifications. Well girls are always the ones
breaking the dress code, and that may be true, to an extent, but at the same time,
I feel like it isnt veryI dont know, I feel like it is a little sexist sometimes, just
because ofthe way that they go after the girls? Like, theres just no uniformity in
how they go after the girls in the dress code? Like girls can wear literally the exact
same thing and theyll be fine, and then one day they wont. Its just, its dumb.
JS: Would you identify as a feminist, do you think?
SW: Um, I would. And theres like, a lot of negative connotations associated with
that word, but I would. Just because.
JS: What do you think makes someone a feminist?
SW: Okay (sigh, smile). What makes someone a feminist (and I get really heated
about this). Its just believing that men and women are equal, in all respects. That is
the only thing that makes you a feminist. Like if you believe that, you are a feminist,
whether you or not you identify as one yourself. And I do.
JS: How long have you been interested in this?
SW: Im trying to think I started reading about it a lot more, probably my freshman
year (of high school), just because thats when I kind of got started with social
media (Pinterest, Instagram, all of that).
JS: So...why is it such a big issue?

SW: Because we still face so much prejudice. Maybe not so much here, just because
the United States has made a great deal of progress- and dont get me wrong, we
still have a ways to go- but weve got other things going on. Like racial issues,
gender issues, and the whole gender thing ties over into like, sexuality, and the
trans people as well, so theres just a lot going on there. Weve got a lot of
diversity here, so it kinda plays into that, but then youve got things internationally
that are just almost ridiculous. You can get anything in the Middle East. Women
arent allowed to drive there; its justso many things going on.
JS: What comes to mind when you think of women? What do you associate with
women?
SW: Well, I have two things, really. I have the whole side I want to associate with,
the things Ive just kind of accumulated ever since Ive started reading more about
feminism. But I grew up with old-fashioned parents, who hold on to very
conservative ideals when it comes to what it means to be a woman. I do tend to
think of like the whole domestic thing, like a housewife, a mom who cooks dinner for
her family, who stays at home and doesnt really work. I do imagine those kind of
things as well, and theres nothing wrong with that, but to think of that right off the
bat for a woman is kind of sad. And I try to fight that, but, yeah.
JS: What comes to mind when you hear feminine?
SW: I hate myself for saying this, but I tend to think weak. Like if you ever hear a
man being called feminine, its not a good thing.
JS: So the same thing goes for masculine?
SW: Yeah, masculine is youre strong.
JS: And with feminine, you think like all pretty, and flowers, and ooh la la.
SW: Yeah, its just like how it is. Its how you look, its how you are presented to the
world. Its not anything that has to do with who you are as a person.
JS: What makes men and women unequal? I know thats very broad, but like one of
the big things.
SW: Well, we have our biological differences of course, and we cant change that.
But more than anything, its like our cultural differences, and in world history last
year, we were reading about how there are so many stereotypes for both men and
women. Weve held onto the concept from how men were hunters and gatherers,
and women were homemakers. Its become so ingrained, within our society, over
thousands and thousands of years that we cant shy away from that.
JS: Soyou definitely think that beliefs and values, especially when kids are raised,
plays a role?

SW: Oh definitely! Thats probably the biggest thing. I mean, dont get me wrong, a
child can always choose to learn more and to change themselves- like my parents
think that feminism is this ridiculous concept, and that its (noise). (Jokingly) Theyre
all just man-haters. But, obviously Im not, so it is kind of your own choice. But what
you grow up with is your foundation. And even though my parents dont identify
with feminism, and I do, there are a lot of things about feminism that they dont like
that I also dont like, and I think a huge part of that is because thats been ingrained
within me- so its hard to escape that kind of stuff.
JS: Often, when I think of like a big stereotype, is with princesses and in fairytales,
the man comes to save the woman, and they are the damsel in distress, and they
are swept into the sunset and the castle- with that belief that we need saving.
SW: I dont know! Its such a ridiculous notion! And the fact thatI dont know! Its
so hard because I love Disney princesses, and all that stuff, but that again ties back
into how we are raised, and how we were grown up.
JS: Like when it was first created back in the 60s
SW: Yeah! Like thats what you associate with the princesses- like that they need to
be saved. Theyre someone who is feminine, pretty, and just kind of there to look at.
JS: So, you would say that society plays a large role.
SW: Oh, huge! Society, I think, is the biggest aspect/influence behind everything.
JS: So what societal expectations do we have to live up to? Like are we expected to
dress a certain way? Or act or think?
SW: Well, thats somewhat hard to answer, because society does change, and I
would like to say that we dont have anything that we have to do, but at the same
time, there are girls who are looked at as weird for doing certain things.
JS: Or even like, if they act in a way that isnt expected. Like they expect women to
act all friendly, and smiley, and kind, and dress nice, but if they act like a boy, and
they do everything like a guy, its considered weird.
SW: Yeah or when a girl cuts her hair super short, and people are automatically just
taken aback. Like, I get any time anyone changes something drastically, its going
to be a shock, but at the same time- get over it! It shouldnt be that big of a deal.
But people tend to hold onto those kind of things, or if someone comes out of the
closet, thats always a big thing.
JS: Thats also a different aspect- the whole different sexuality orientation.
SW: Yeah. And I think like, my biggest thing is that people dont realize how much
feminism encompasses; feminism isnt just fighting for womens rights, of course
that is a predominant factor because that was the whole movement behind it. But

for me personally, what I believe feminism is, and what it should be, is someone
who believes in the equality of those who are oppressed, but more so tying into the
whole transgender aspect, with homosexuality, and encompassing women of color
is a really big thing too- just because feminism has a tendency to be cookie-cutter.
We want women, but when you think of women, you think of white housewives. Like
theres so much more to it than that.
JS: With that, what do you think classifies women as weak? Or what comes across as
weak? What makes people think women are weak?
SW: I think a huge portion of it, is just like how successful they are, and their
interests. Like if women typically go after domestic roles, whether or not thats just
because they like them. Thats seen asI hope its not really seen as weak directly,
but it can kinda be linked to that, because theyre not making as much as men,
theyre not as powerful as men, they cant do as muchJS: And then we have different roles in society- whereas we have natural care-giving
characteristics.
SW: Exactly. Theres that, thats the big thing.
JS: Would you say its a possibility that sexual harassment is a big thing locally?
SW: Oh god yeah it is! (proceeds to tell story about being harassed at the Dollar
Store for showing legs while wearing workout shorts)
JS: Does what people expect of women tie into dating or relationship expectations?
As well as tradition?
SW: Definitely. It depends on the person, I would think, but at the same time, it
depends on how youre raised, of course. But Ive noticed that boys who tend to
come from religious backgrounds- they have very, very strict expectations of what
they want, or do not want from a girl. Its kind of ridiculous. Its almost a shopping
list of what they want.
JS: Do you think it would be a possibility, one day, that we would have a woman
president?
SW: I would definitely think its a possibility. I dont know how soon that will be, but I
think were definitely heading in the right direction.
JS: Because I mean, I know Hillary (Clinton) has been after it for a while, Carly
Fiorina, Sarah Palin. I think theyve definitely gotten somewhere, in terms of women
in leadership. Especially proving that they can, you know, live up to that potential.
SW: Yeah. Thats one of the areas I really like seeing women excel in- is politics, just
because it is such a heavily, male-dominated field- predominantly white men, too.
Its white, Christian men. Anytime anything different happens in there, whether its

women, whether its a black person, whether its just anything. Its good. And like
you said- weve made tries with the Sarah Palin thing, Carly Fiorina, and all that.
JS: Going hand in hand with feminism, what do you define as sexism? As being
sexist?
SW: Hmm. Well I mean, theres the obvious definition- anything that excludes a
certain sex, or their sex- the sole purpose of being that sex. And it applies to men
too: there are definitely, like, the feminazis who hate men, because they are men,
and thats ridiculous. Thats not what feminism is. But its more than that? I feel like
sexism also plays a huge role in the stereotypes that we see every day, that were
just so blind-sided to. Like at the gym that I go to- I stare at it every day because I
just dont understand- theres these two diagrams. Theyre of the human body, like
all of the muscles and stuff, so you can see what youre working (out). The man is
just standing there- like its just a very basic diagram. Whereas the woman is like,
contorted into this weird like, almost sexual position? Like her chest is thrust out,
and her hips and butt (curves) are sticking out. And its just not comfortable! Like
theres no way I would ever sit like that! Thats the diagram thats showing all the
womens muscles, where a man is literally just standing there. Its justand Im not
really offended by that, but its just little things like that that kind of tie into the
whole sexism piece.
JS: If, lets say, thats its stated: People are people, no matter what; everyone has
their own life and own choices. Do you agree with that?
SW: I do, but to an extent. I believe that every person is their own person, like the
quote says, but at the same time, that does not mean you have the right to
disrespect a person or to make a person feel less than, or to intrude in another
persons life. So as long as youre your own person, youre doing your own thing,
and youre happy, and youre not taking away that exact same right from someone
else, then yeah, I agree with it, whole-heartedly.
JS: What would it take, do you think, to change peoples minds about inequality?
Like, if you were to actually do something, like an action, what would you do?
SW: I think the two biggest things people need- they just need more exposure to it?
Like that was what made it for me, like I said, growing up, my parents were not for
feminism, so I mean there was me- thinking it was just this ridiculous notion, but the
more I read about it, the more I educated myself about itJS: The exposure as in education?
SW: Yeah, and just perspective. Because its really hard to use that education, and
to use that exposure if you cant really put it into terms of anything else. And with
that, I feel like applies to even men, or girls who havent an experienced a real need

for it? Because as long as you can kind of realize that this is a very applicable issue,
then it helps things.
JS: What do you think would happen if nothing was done about it? Would it grow to
something super-big, and then there would be like, world wars about it?
SW: That is an interesting conceptIve never thought about it to the point of war,
but I could see it being that way- maybe not necessarilyJS: War of genders? Almost like now, where weve had war of race, religion
(Muslims), black and white civil war.
SW: Exactly, like thats just what I was thinking, was thatI dont know if it would
necessarily be a civil war, but I could definitely see a country, like the United States
or somewhere in Europe, fighting against, again, the Middle East, just because
they theyre so traditional- they refuse to let go of that, and theres nothing wrong
with tradition, but I dont know. I could just see major issues arising from that.
JS: So youd agree that tradition and historically, inequalities now based on biased
sets of attitudes and assumptions? Like casting women as second place? Because
even in my house, its the man is the king, and he makes all of the decisions. But if
youve seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you know the quote: The man is the head.
But the woman is the neck. And the neck can turn the head any way she wants.
SW: But yes definitely. I think that, more than anything else, because that leads into
what society values. And what society values, in turn, influences everything else.
Yep.
JS: So we both agree that everything was ingrained in our culture, in the past.
Does this kind of appeal to the separate-but-equal logic that they used to have?
Especially for race?
SW: We just learned about that in US History! Im trying to think.you ask really
good questions! Just give me a second. The separate-but-equal thingagain, yes
and no. Like all of these- I can see from multiple sides. Like I mean on the one hand,
you dont have women that are like, segregated, in like the way we would think of
with blacks and whites.
JS: But even like at Hooters? Where they mainly hire busty girls? And then from that,
youd expect a lot of sexual harassment. Or like even if youre in the porn industry,
or if youre a stripper or an exotic dancer. .. Our guiding question is again, the how
might we. So Im trying to appeal to the stereotypes that are put in place by the
past, and then that are still there today. It happens in the workplace, it happens at
schools, it happens everywhere. It happens in the home, and it- a lot of it, comes
from how you were raised, which still ties back to the past and stereotypes.
Everything goes back to stereotypes.

SW: Its hard to change stereotypes, just because like they exist for a reason.
Stereotypes emerge from some sort of truth. Theyre usually like, an exaggerated
form of it, almost like a comical thing that people hold as true, even if its not.
JS: Why do you think that stereotypes exist for a reason? What do they exist for?
SW: Just from the fact that they do emerge from something. Like theyre not just
built on lies. Theres always some bit of truth in them, and it just tends to be overexaggerated, and a lot of times, that truth is from something that used to be true,
and its not necessarily true anymore. And I think people cant really move past that
sometimes, and its a lot easier to put people in boxes than it is to acknowledge that
some things arent quantifiable.
JS: So its a lot easier to think about it in that way? In that perspective?
SW: Yeah. And I know I do that too- and its kind of a bad thing. But again its
something youre raised to believe.
JS: Its the same thing with like judging people. (stereotyping is judging)
SW: Exactly. Stereotypes are HUGE with that. Like they go hand in hand.
JS: But this was good! This was really good! Thank you. Lemme just shake your
hand.