Benson Deposition

Case 2:15-cv-00782-JTM-JCW Document 182-1 Filed 05/19/16 Page 1 of 17
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA
THOMAS MILTON BENSON , JR . ,

in his capacity as GRANTOR
*
*
CIVIL ACTION NO. 15 - 782
SECTION : H
*
*
VERSUS
JUDGE MILAZZO
*
*
ROBERT A. ROSENTHAL , in
his capacity as TRUSTEE
MAG . DIVISION: 2
*
*
*
MAG . JUDGE WILKINSON
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Continuation of the videotaped deposition of

THOMAS MILTON BENSON , JR ., taken in his offices located
at 5800 Airline Drive , Metairie , Louisiana 70003 , on the
29th day of March , 2016 , beginning at 9 : 27 a . m.
REPORTED BY :
CONNIE M. FINESCHI , CCR
CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER

CONFIDENTIAL AND SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
Page 23
Q.
No ,
A.
I just want to clarify that .
Q.
Okay.
I wasn ' t implying that.

When was your knee surgery
approximately?
A.
Well , the years have gone by , so I don ' t
know .
I can ' t
tell you whether that was two years
ago , three or five .
Q.
Okay.
A.
Okay.
10
Q.
In the last five years?
11
A.
Yes .
12
Q.
Okay.
So it ' s my understanding that when
13
you were married to your wife Grace , that your plan
14
was still to leave your assets to Renee , Ri t a , and
15
Ryan; is that right?
16
A.
Under Grace ' s death though .
17
Q.
Until Grace ' s death?
18
A.
Right.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
But that was your plan at
that time , right?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
Okay .
And now you ' ve decided you want to
take those assets back?
24
A.
Correct .
25
Q.
Okay.
And I know you ' ve explained it a
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Page 24
little bit , but if you can just tell me why that
is .
A.
Well , they tried to kill me for one
thing .
Q.
Okay .
A.
Well , you know , by picking on my wife and
when I wasn ' t
hostile .
How so?
feel very good , they were very
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
As a matter of fact ,
11
everything .
12
Pelicans or nothing .
13
Q.
I cut them off from
I don ' t have them to Saints games or
Right .
So when did that happen?
When do
When did you cut them off from attending the
14
you
15
games?
16
A.
I don ' t
know.
17
Q.
Was i t before your decision to ta k e the
18
assets back?
19
A.
Sure .
20
Q.
Like about
21
A.
About the same time .
22
Q.
About the same time .
Okay .
So what made
23
you decide that you d idn ' t want them to attend the
24
Saints or the Pelicans games anymore?
25
A.
Well ,
first thing they came into my suite
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Page 25
and started fighting with us.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Saying ugly things and everything .
Q.
Your suite at the Saints?
A.
Yeah , Saints game .
Q.
Okay .
that?
So what do you remember about
What happened?
MR. WITTMANN :
Again , we ' ve gone over this
9
10
repeatedly.
11
I ' m objecting t o it .
12
continuing object ion to your repe t i t ive
13
questions .
14
EXAMINATION BY MS . SCHILLING :
15
Q.
This is jus t
repetition .
Make it a
Okay. I don ' t actually recall tal k ing
16
about this yesterday , but i f so , then I apologize .
17
But do you
18
MR. WITTMANN:
19
20
21
22
23
Not you , Mr . Flanagan .

EXAMINATION BY MS . SCHILLING :
Q.
Do you remember what happened at t he
Saints suite that you ' re refer ring to?

A.
I think Renee and Rita and maybe Ryan was
24
there too , carne over to our suite and started
25
saying things.
I ' m trying to watch a football
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Page 26
game .
Q.
Right .
A.
And they start p i cking on Gayle .
got so bad , Renee shook her , and I said ,
enough .
Q.
Okay .
A.
Yes .
Q.
-- Renee shaki ng Gayle?
A.
Yes .
10
Q.
Okay .
11
A.
It was right t here .
12
Gayl e and I left the game .
So you witnessed that --
We were sitting
Q.
Ri ght .
And thi s is a different t i me than
at your house?
15
A.
Uh- huh (affirmatively ) .
16
Q.
Okay .
So the r e was a time at your house
17
and then a l so a time a t
18
that
the Saints game .
19
A.
Yeah .
20
Q.
-- what you ' re saying?
21
A.
I don ' t
22
23
24
25
" That ' s
together .
13
14
Let ' s go ."
And it
Is
remember which was first , but I
would think that the house was second .

Q.
Okay .
Who have you talked to about your
decision to take the assets back?

A.
Who d i d I talk to , one of my lawyers .
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Page 28
A.
I forgot their names .
Q.
Okay.
That ' s okay.
This is in Texas or
in Louisiana?
A.
Here , Louisiana .
Q.
Lou isiana , okay.
What conversations do
you remember having with Dennis Lauscha or Mickey
Loomis or Greg Bensel about your decision to take
the assets back?
A.
I don ' t
10
Q.
You don ' t
11
recall that .
recall the specifics of the
conversation?
12
A.
Right .
13
Q.
Okay .
Do you recall the specifics of any
14
conversations with the people running your
15
dealerships?
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
Okay .
18
Have you t a lked to your wife Gayle
about your decision to take back the assets?
19
A.
Gayle?
20
Q.
Yes .
21
A.
I don ' t
22
Q.
You don ' t
recall .
recall .
So you don ' t
know if
23
you have talked to her or you have not talked to
24
her about it?
25
A.
I don ' t
know if I talked to her about i t .
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Page 29
Q.
Okay.
A.
I didn ' t want her to get too involved in
this thing.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Because , you know ,
Why is that?
I thought she might
get hurt and I didn ' t want her to .
Q.
What do you mean by that?
A.
Well , they a lready shook her and cursed
9
10
11
her out and everything .
She didn ' t need anymore of
that.
Q.
Okay .
Anybody else that you remember
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
remember
A.
kind of
Q.
A.
23
Q.
He was what?
24
A.
A porter .
25
Q.
Right.
Sorry?
Okay.
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Page 33
Q.
Right .
What conversations do you
remember having with Dennis about setting up the
trust?
A.
I don ' t
Q.
Okay .
remember that .
Okay .
We started tal king about
this before , but you said that at some poin t that
Renee and Rita and Ryan were no longer allowed to
come to the Saints games .
A.
Right .
10
Q.
And was that because of what happened in
11
12
the suite , or that was because of something else?

A.
Well , by this time they showed a lot of
13
indications they didn ' t -- they wanted to take over
14
everything , and then that was the final blow.
15
Q.
Okay.
Okay .
So what indications had
16
they shown that they wanted to take over
17
everything?
18
A.
I don ' t
19
Q.
You don ' t remember .
remember.
Okay .
But was that
20
your decision for them not to be allowed to come to
21
the games?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Did you tell them that yourself?
24
A.
I don ' t
25
Q.
When ' s the last time you r emember
recall.
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Page 34
speaking to Renee or Rita or Ryan?

A.
Q.
9
10
When you say the incident , what are you
referring to?
6
7
I to ld them
I was displeased with them .
Shortly after the incident .
A.
When they came in the suite and shook my
Q.
Okay.
wife .
And then what did you tell them
after that in terms of that you were displeased

with them?
11
A.
What did I tell them?
12
Q.
Uh- huh (indi cating affirmatively) .
13
A.
I most probably -- I don ' t
14
words , but
15
to see them anymore .
16
Q.
remember exact
I most probably told them I didn ' t want

Are you referring to the letter that we
17
looked at yesterday that you sent to Renee, Rita ,
18
and Ryan?
19
A.
What ' s the date of it?
20
Q.
December 27th , 2014 .
21
A.
That was a little bit after that .
22
23
24
25
This
happened a few weeks before that.

Q.
The incident at the Saints suite happened
a little before that?

A.
Yeah.
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Page 35
2
3
Q.
Okay.
Do you remember having any
in-person conversations with Renee, Rita, and

Ryan
A.
Q.
A.
After that happened?

Yes .
No.
Q.
Okay. Do you remember having any
in-person conversations with them before you wrote
the letter?
10
A.
11
Q.
12
A.
About what?
About you being displeased with t hem.
I don ' t recall.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
A.
15
Q.
You are a lawyer, huh?

I am.
16
A.
17
Q.
Here, New Orleans?

Yep .
18
A.
Okay.
19
Q.
I just wanted to get i t s t rai ght.
21
Sure. No problem.
When we were talking about , you know , you
witnessing Renee shaking Gayle at the Saint s game ,
22
23
then was there anyone else there?

A.
Oh, yeah .
20
24
Q.
25
A.
Who?
We most probably had 3 0 people ln the
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Page 36
suite.
Q.
being there?
A.
Who being there?
Q.
Uh-huh (indicating affirmatively).
A.
No one exactly , no.
Q.
Okay.
Okay.
Who specifically do you remember
Just like the typical people that
would be in your suite?
A.
Right .
10
Q.
Who were those people?
11
A.
Dennis Lauscha , doctors , and many
12
managers here , department managers , and some
13
long-time friends .
14
Q.
When you say doctors , what do you mean?
15
A.
I had two doctors I counted on a great
17
Q.
What are their names?
18
A.
I don't know.
16
19
deal.
to me.
20
21
22
23
24
25
You would have to show i t
I forgot .
Q.
Tha t ' s okay .
Are they still your doctors
A.
One of them got real sick and the other
now?
one I still have .
Q.
Okay.
Is it fair to say that your wife
Gayle doesn ' t like Renee?
Do you think tha t ' s fair
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Page 37
to say?
A.
No , I don ' t know that.
Q.
You don ' t
likes Renee?
A.
She never tol d me .
Q.
She never told you one way or
A.
Certainly after that incident she didn ' t
know -- Do you not know if she
like her .
Q.
Okay.
10
A.
I didn ' t either.
11
Q.
And you mean when she shook her a t the
12
Saints game?
13
A.
Right .
14
Q.
Okay .
Then carne to the house .

What do you remember b etween those
15
events , b etween the game and the incident a t the
16
house, any other problems with Renee, Rita , or
17
Ryan?
18
A.
Not that I know of.
19
Q.
Do you remember any specific problems
20
21
with Ryan or what he did to make you angry?

A.
I think he carne to see me or called me
22
and told me something like he didn ' t have any part
23
of that .
24
25
Q.
Okay.
And what did you thin k abo u t that
when he said that?
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Page 53
A.
That ' s what started all that crap .
Q.
Okay.
A.
Well , when we pulled out , they still
So what do you mean by tha t ?
wanted things .
have to give them anything .
6
7
Q.
They hired attorneys , and we didn ' t
Why didn ' t
you have to give them
anything?
A.
It was none of their business.
Q.
So how the company -- the company ' s
10
financials , that was none of their business?
11
A.
Oh , they could see that .
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
But my personal stuff they didn ' t.
14
Q.
Got it .
15
But your
So when was this in rela t ion to
the incidents with Gayle and your daughter?
16
A.
I t was all about the same time .
17
Q.
Okay .
When you were replacing people on
18
these -- on the boards of your companies , did you
19
put your wife Gayle on the boards of any of these
20
companies?
21
A.
I don ' t
22
Q.
You don ' t
23
A.
I don ' t
24
Q.
Okay.
25
recall .
recall?
know , that ' s right .

Has Gayl e ever been involved in
running any of your businesses?
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Page 54
A.
No .
MR. WITTMANN :
Objection .
That ' s got nothing to do
with this case , whether Gayle was or
wasn ' t
involved i n running a bus i ness .
But subject to my objection ,
6
7
answe r the quest i on .
THE WITNESS :
No .
9
10
EXAMINATION BY MR . SCHI LL I NG :
11
12
Q.
A.
Is she i nvolved now in r u nni ng any
She ' s involved wi th me , but she don ' t
run
any businesses .
15
16
Okay .
of your bus i nesses?
13
14
you can
Q.
When you mean she ' s involved with you ,
you mean just being you r wi fe?
17
A.
I keep her posted on what ' s go1ng on .
18
want her to l earn the thi ng .
19
would t ake over when I die .
My plan is that she
20
Q.
And what is -- what will she ta ke over?
21
A.
The Saints , Pe l icans , and t he two
22
automobile deal ership s he r e --
23
24
25
Q.
Okay .
So you ' re keeping her informed
A.
-- and some real estate .
now
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We own a

Page 55
building and things like that.
Q.
Is that Benson Tower?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
And we got some other build -- no t
buildings , not buildings , but prope r ty .
Q.
What other property?
A.
Real estate , vacant prope r ty.
Q.
Right .
10
There is like a parking lot ,
right , at Poydras and Claiborne?
11
A.
That ' s it .
12
Q.
Okay.
13
about the land where the dealerships are located?
14
A.
Right .
15
Q.
Right .
16
And then I think we already talked
Okay.
And those are -- That ' s
all the property that was involved in the
17
A.
There is nothing else .
18
Q.
Those are all of your assets you mean?
19
A.
Right .
20
Q.
Okay.
Who has been running the -- So the
21
property, the real estate property , those are owned
22
by various companies named Zelia; is that right?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
Where does tha t
25
A.
I think that has to do with my -- I don ' t
Zelia name come from?
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Page 63
you got to notify them .

Q.
Okay.
What was the change of plan that
you were notifying them about here?
A.
That Gayle Benson would be the owner.
Q.
Okay .
Who -- Do you know who prepared
this document?
A.
Who did what?
Q.
Do you know who prepared this document?
A.
No ,
10
document.
11
Q.
12
page 2 .
13
A.
14
15
I don ' t
know who prepared this
What's the date of it?

It ' s June 25th , 2015 is what it says on
It could have been I prepared the
document and Vicky Neumeyer could have helped me.

Q.
Okay.
So I think you j us t
said, yeah ,
16
that the main purpose was to inform the NFL that
17
Gayle was going to be taking over the teams?
18
A.
Correct .
19
Q.
Okay.
So you say here ,
" As of the date
20
of Torn Benson ' s death , Gayle M. Benson shall be the
21
sole Voting Trustee with respect to all interests
22
in Benson Football , LLC under the terms of t he
23
marital trust.
24
Representative for the New Orleans Saints and shall
25
have the sole power to appoint and r emove o t her
She shall be the Owner
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Page 64
Owner Representatives .
power to make all major decisions with respect to
the New Orleans Saints , including , but not limited
to , any decision to sell the team ."

Do you see that?
5
6
She shall have the sole
I t ' s li ke the second
half of that big paragraph on the first page .
A.
Okay .
Q.
So is that your intent , that after your
death --
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Okay .
12
If you ' ll just let me finish the
question .
13
A.
Right .
14
Q.
Tha t at your death that Gayle will have
15
the sole power and control over the Saints?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Okay .
So then if she doesn ' t wan t to pay
18
back the promissory notes to the trusts , then she
19
could do that , right?
20
A.
21
MR . WITTMANN:
22
23
No .
Objection.
EXAMINATION BY MS . SCHILLING:
24
Q.
What do you mean by no?
25
A.
No reason that she wouldn ' t .
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Case 2:15-cv-00782-JTM-JCW Document 182-1 Filed 05/19/16 Page 1 of 17

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

THOMAS MILTON BENSON , JR . ,

CIVIL ACTION NO. 15 - 782

MAG . JUDGE WILKINSON

Continuation of the videotaped deposition of

Case 2:15-cv-00782-JTM-JCW Document 182-1 Filed 05/19/16 Page 2 of 17

I just want to clarify that .

I wasn ' t implying that.

Well , the years have gone by , so I don ' t

tell you whether that was two years

ago , three or five .

In the last five years?

So it ' s my understanding that when

you were married to your wife Grace , that your plan

was still to leave your assets to Renee , Ri t a , and

Ryan; is that right?

Under Grace ' s death though .

Until Grace ' s death?

But that was your plan at

that time , right?

And now you ' ve decided you want to

take those assets back?

And I know you ' ve explained it a

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Case 2:15-cv-00782-JTM-JCW Document 182-1 Filed 05/19/16 Page 3 of 17

little bit , but if you can just tell me why that

Well , they tried to kill me for one

Well , you know , by picking on my wife and

when I wasn ' t

feel very good , they were very

I cut them off from

I don ' t have them to Saints games or

So when did that happen?

When did you cut them off from attending the

Was i t before your decision to ta k e the

About the same time .

About the same time .

Saints or the Pelicans games anymore?

first thing they came into my suite

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Case 2:15-cv-00782-JTM-JCW Document 182-1 Filed 05/19/16 Page 4 of 17

and started fighting with us.

Saying ugly things and everything .

Your suite at the Saints?

Yeah , Saints game .

So what do you remember about

continuing object ion to your repe t i t ive

Okay. I don ' t actually recall tal k ing

about this yesterday , but i f so , then I apologize .

Not you , Mr . Flanagan .

Do you remember what happened at t he

Saints suite that you ' re refer ring to?

I think Renee and Rita and maybe Ryan was

there too , carne over to our suite and started

I ' m trying to watch a football

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Case 2:15-cv-00782-JTM-JCW Document 182-1 Filed 05/19/16 Page 5 of 17

And they start p i cking on Gayle .

got so bad , Renee shook her , and I said ,

-- Renee shaki ng Gayle?

It was right t here .

Gayl e and I left the game .

So you witnessed that --