10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JANUARY 30, 1991 BUTLER COUNTY COURTHOUSE BUTLER, PENNSYLVANIA THE COURT: Mr. Shaffer MR. SHAFFER: Call Carrie Deiseroth to the stand please. THE WITNESS WAS SWORN CARRIE DEISEROTH, being first duly sworn according to law testified as follows OTRECT EXAMINATION BY_MR. SHAFFER: ° a Would you state your name for the record, please. Carrie Deiseroth. And spell your last name, please. D-e-i-s-e-r~o-t-h. Where do you reside? Keep your voice up, please. Is it Miss or Mrs? Miss Miss Deiseroth, are you acquainted with Walter Sherman Cowfer? Yes Is he present in the courtroom today?10 aa) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JANUARY 30, 1991 BUTLER COUNTY COURTHOUSE BUTLER, PENNSYLVANIA THE COURT: Mr. Shaffer. MR. SHAFFER: Call Carrie Deiseroth to the stand please THE WITNESS WAS SWORN. CARRIE DEISEROTH, being first duly sworn according to law testified as follows: DIRECT. EXAMINATION ev MR. shareeR: Q Would you state your name for the record, please. A Carrie Deiseroth. Q And spell your last name, please. 4 D-e-i-s-e-r-o-t-h. ° Where do you reside? / eee ° Keep your voice up, please. Is it Miss or Mrs? Q Miss Deiseroth, are you acquainted with Walter Sherman Q Is he present in the courtroom today?10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Shaffer 4 4 ° Yes. Would you indicate where he sits. Over there to the right, (indicating). Sitting at the end of counsel table? Yes. And how do you know him? T have known him for a long time. I was introduced to him by Leonard Mayhugh. When was the last time prior to today you had saw Mr. Cowfer?, Before today? Before today. May 5 -~ 13th. Of what year? 1990 Where was that meeting? What time of day was that? About nine o'clock in the morning. Tell us what happened at that time. He come in. Well, he knocked on the door, him and some other kid had come in. And he asked me if Leonard was there. I asked him what he was doing at my house that early in the morning. He asked if he could see Leonard. He was kneeling down talking to Leonard down10 an 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Shaffer 5 beside the couch. Were you able to hear what the conversation was about? Yes. And who was talking to each other at that time? Leonard Mayhugh and Sherman Cowfer. What did you hear at that time? Well, Sherman said, I never thought I could do it. Leonard says, what are you talking about. I never thought I could do it. I killed somebody. Come on Sherman, you didn’t do nothing like that, he said. Yes, I did. He said, we pushed him over the quarry and blub, blub, blub, to the bottom of the quarry he went. Did you see how Mr. Cowfer got to your apartment that day? Yes. A little, blue car. He was driving @ little, blue car. Do you recall whether or not there was anyone else in that car? Yes. Two other people besides the one that come in the house with him. 41) right. What happened after that conversation? He was -~ he just said -- and I didn’t believe him. I said, come on, Sherman, you know. And he was drinking and that. And I just started watching t.v., and him and Leonard were talking and that. And him and the10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Shaffer 6 other kid got up and left. 9 And you had not seen him from that time until today? A Yes. MR. SHAFFER: All right. You may cross-examine. MR. CERASO: No questions. MS. MCLEAN: No questions. AMINATION BY_MS._CLARK: 9 Miss Deiseroth, how long had you known Mr. Cowfer? A About six years. 9 And during the course of those six years did you see him often? @ Yeah. Here and there. He come around for a while and then he wouldn’t come around, and he would visit for a while off and on. Q What was the purpose of his visits? A Well, he knew Leonard since he was a kid. Leonard used to babysit him. 9 At one point did he move in with you and Leonard? a Yes. Q When was that? A Oh, geeze, I would say about °87, ‘as. Q Was that at this address in Lower Burrell? 4& No. No.10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 24 25 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Clark 7 a a Where were you living at that point? ‘SaGieeetoniecate | And how long did he live with you? Well, not long. Maybe if two months. Okay. And before May 13th, when did you last see Mr. Cowfer?, It had been about a year before that that he had come around M Deiseroth, did you talk with the police during the investigation? Do you recall talking with counsel? Where did that conversation take place? And at that time you talked with them, what did you Well, they had come in, they knocked on the door and they said they were the police and they were talking about a homicide. And at first I didn’t know what they were talking about. And they said Walter Cowfer. And T knew after Sherman had come up to the house I went down to the neighbor ’s that knew Sherman, too, and T said, it was on the news. And the kid said, get out of here. It was on the news And the cops asked me what was said And I told them. They asked me if Leonard would talk to them and I said, yeah. He wasn’t home at10 aa 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 a 22 23 24 25 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Clark 8 4 the time. On the day you talked to the police, did you tell them the same thing you testified to here today? Yes. THE JURY INDICATES THEY ARE HAVING TROUBLE HEARING. THE COURT: They can't here you, Ms. Clark. T will ask you to keep your voice up, please. BY MS. CLARK: When you were talking to the police, were they taking notes? Yes. Did they take down a statement from you and ask you to sign it in any way? Yes. Have you met with them recently before your testimony today? I just went into the D.A.’s Office and let them know that I was here, that I was here. Have you had the opportunity to go over the statement that you made to them? No Back in May? No. You have not.10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Clark 3 4 See, T didn’t make a statement in May. They had just. come @ week before this hearing. They was only at my house last week. I understood you to say they came to your house in May and you spoke to them. That’s not correct? No. No. No, they had just came about a week before this hearing started. Like last week? Last week, yeah. So, now, you didn’t talk to them at all in May? No. How do you recall that the house was approximately 9:00 a.m.? Because I was woken out of bed. I was woken out of bed Do you recall looking at the clock at that time? Yes. Because somebody strange knocking at my door that early in the morning. I look out the window, I see what vehicle is out there, looked at the clock. I didn’t know the vehicle and I went to the door and 1 seen Sherman -- Walter. And a week ago when you talked to the police, did you tell them at that point that it was about nine o’clock that Sherman arrived at your home? No. I said I thought it was like 7:30, eight o’clock.10 a1 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 at 22 23 24 25 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Clark 10 Q Why did you change your mind between last week and this week? Because the people who live down the street -- who had told Sherman where I lived because he had went there first to find out where I had lived -- they said he was down there about 7:30 there at their house. They said he had to be at my house eight, 8:30, somewhere like that. He didn’t know where I Lived at the time. After you talked to the police last week, you started talking to the neighbors and got additional information, and now you are coming in today and changing what you told the police, is that right? As far as the time, yes. Did you know the individual that was with Mr. Cowfer? No, I did not. During the time that these two people are in your apartment, were you present throughout the entire conversation? Yes. You at no time got up and left the room? No. Not that I'm -- no. Did the other individual speak at al) during this time? No, he did not You said you thought he was drinking. Why did you say that?10 14 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Clark ret a ° Because I smelled alcohol on his breath. He didn’t have anything physically with him? No. Was he doing anything else in your apartment? No. He wasn’t? No. MS. CLARK: I have nothing further . THE COURT: Mr. Shaffer? MR. SHAFFER: No redirect, Your Honor . MR. CERASO: Your Honor, may we approach the bench. SIDE BAR CONFERENCE HELD. MR. CERASO: If the Court please, I’m going to request that if there are any additional witness statement -- this girl last indicated she made a written statement she signed. We got a synopsis of what she said which was given to us by Mr. Shaffer. But there is no question that what. this girl has testified to certainly is exculpatory as it applies to my client and therefore I believe it comes under the Brady10 a1 12 13 14 15 16 17 1s 19 20 ex 22 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Clark 12 Rule that we should have that kind of information. Her statement that was given to us did not go to the depth that this goes into. MR. SHAFFER: There was mo -- as far as I am aware, there is no written statement that she made. MR. CERASO: Okay. That’s the second phase. If in fact there is not written statement and she is now testifying she gave a written statement that was signed, that is something that can be used relative to impeachment of this particular witness. And bear now, of course, Rill, you had no idea she was going to testify there was a written statement that was signed by her. But I think that we are entitled -- MR. SHAFFER: Let me confer with the Trooper. THE COURT: Let’s get that clarified now before she leaves the stand. MR. SHAFFER: I disagree. It’s inexculpatory. THE COURT: I don’t believe10 cee 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 28 CARRIE DEISEROTH: Clark 13 this other party was with this defendant . MR. CERASO: You are going to hear from that other party later if what we understand if McClearn in his statement he was with none of the people sitting here. END OF SIDE BAR CONFERENCE. MR. SHAFFER: I think maybe we could clear this up, Your Honor, with further examination. SIDE BAR CONFERENCE HELD. MR. SHAFFER: The trooper tells me she is probably confused. she signed the receipt of the subpoena she was given that day which was probably where she is making the mistake. THE COURT: Is he representing there is no written statement from her? MR. SHAFFER: Right. THE COURT: Does that clarify that? MR. SHAFFER: I will ask her . END OF SIOE BAR CONFERENCE.10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 CARRIE DETSEROTH: Clark 14 REDIRECT, NATION BY_MR. SHAFF! 9 Pid you sign a statement that you made in this case or did you sign a subpoena that was given to you to appear? Gi Selwas w(eteboena- at iknow) hadiedaned (somathineey int sorry. THE COURT: Now, are there any further questions? MR. CERASO: No, Your Honor. MS. MCLEAN: No, Your Honor. MS. CLARK: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. You may step down. Thank you. THE WITNESS WAS SWORN. LEONARD MAYHUGH, being first duly sworn according to law testified as follow: DIRECT, BY. SHAFFER: 9 Sir, would you state your full name for the record, please 4 — Leonard anthony Mayhugh.