While Stockton Heads For Largest City Bankruptcy Ever, Murder Surges...

http://www.businessinsider.com/while-stockton-heads-for-largest-city-ba...

STOCKTON GOES BANKRUPT And Already The Murder Rate Is Soaring

Ben Duronio | Jun. 27, 2012, 9:35 AM | 7,178 | 61
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Stockton, California is filing for the largest bankruptcy of any U.S. city in history due to the decline in the once hot housing market and an intake of debt during its boom years. The city has cut more than $90 million in spending over the past few years, specifically in its police department. The city has cut over one quarter of its police jobs, which has led to a "surge in murders," and has created an "emboldened criminal element" in the city. According to police spokesman Joe Silva, the city has had 87 murders since the start of 2011, 29 of which have already occurred this year. In contrast, there were 35 murders in 2009 and 48 in 2010. With six months left in the year, there have already been more murders in the city since the start of 2011 than the two-year stretch of 2009-2010. Further cuts to the police department would likely only worsen the issue, so filing for bankruptcy after already having cut 40 percent of its city's employees was the only option, according to Mayor Ann Johnston. We have hit the wall; we are insolvent, said Mayor Ann Johnston. "Citizens will not be affected. We will still have police and fire departments and we will still operate and pay our bills to vendors." While the city still has police officers, the dramatic decrease in the department has certainly not helped the crime rate. It certainly seems like citizens have been affected. According to Neighborhoodscout, which tracks the crime rate of every city in the United States, Stockton recorded a Crime Index rate of 2 out of 100. The index is based on a percentage, and it details that Stockton is safer than just 2 percent of the cities in the United States. Don't Miss The 10 Companies That Are Saving The World > If you cannot view the below video, click here to view it.

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While Stockton Heads For Largest City Bankruptcy Ever, Murder Surges...

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While Stockton Heads For Largest City Bankruptcy Ever, Murder Surges...

http://www.businessinsider.com/while-stockton-heads-for-largest-city-ba...

Michael O'Donnell on Jun 27, 9:55 AM said:

Flag as Offensive Refer to today's San Francisco Chronicle web site--"Stockton declares bankruptcy." There's a retired police officer pictured--he looks to be just over 50 years old--and he is decrying at the city council meeting the fact that his monthly $1500- stipend for medical care (promised for life) is in jeopardy. Of course, this is on top of his $4000 per month pension. It's a brutal reality when the numbers don't add up. This is the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Frenchy on Jun 27, 11:15 AM said: @Michael O'Donnell: You've hit the nail on the head: public-sector unions are 100% TO BLAME for this. Until the People's Republik of Kalifornia comes to its senses, look for more of this to occur as CA cities start to fall like dominoes. It's unsustainable. What a joke.
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toddd

on Jun 27, 11:43 AM said:

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@Frenchy: The apathy of the electorate during good times is to blame. I'm sure when these contracts were drawn up, the citizens could care less that the public workers were raiding the tax box. If people actually got involved in the first place instead of letting the city become a den of parasites, then this wouldnt happen

John1066 on Jun 27, 11:44 AM said: @Frenchy: Cool so if they all get paid $1 an hour and have no retirement it would be perfect. Also what it says is the folks who signed off on it signed a empty promise. Sounds like many US companies. I'm a fan of get everything in cash and upfront. There should be no boss who does things like promise health care or retirement. Cash only. Why because as seen here they just plain lie. The promise things they can not pay.
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H Bogart on Jun 27, 12:11 PM said:

Flag as Offensive @Michael O'Donnell: Yes, as we saw last year in Bell, CA, it was the tip of the iceberg. Public sector spending is completely out of control in the great state of California - where we taxpayers enjoy the highest marginal income tax rate in the nation, the highest sales tax rates, the highest gas taxes, the highest business taxes, a wage tax on small businesses in San Francisco (that certain friends of Pelosi are exempt from), the highest car taxes, etc, etc. Do you think the tax and spend Democrats that run the state and most every city will be able to solve this crisis?

jshock on Jun 27, 12:25 PM said: @Michael O'Donnell: This is different, first its companies, individuals filing bankruptcy now its full cities. We are in interesting times http://www.dailyjobcuts.com Flag as Offensive

James Andrews on Jun 27, 9:57 AM said: Stockton guaranteed life time health care to any employee who worked over 30 days.... On your 31st day you were vested for life with free health care. Other benefits are outrageous but this shows how far off the cliff these idiots went.
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Smith67 on Jun 27, 10:08 AM said: @James Andrews: The proper phrase is "taxpayer-paid" life time health care.
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Really? on Jun 27, 11:24 AM said:

Flag as Offensive @James Andrews: That sounds a bit over the top Cite a reference. I don't believe it. Perhaps there is a proportional benefit that vests over a long period of time but there is no way they were guaranteeing health care for every employee that was there for 31 days. People would hire in at any job for any pay rate and then quite after 31 days to get that benefit. That just makes no sense. If you can cite a credible reference then I stand corrected. Until then I think you made it up or are just repeating something somelese else told you.

The problem is not retirement benefits. The problem is overly generous benefits and too short a time on the job to get them. It sure is easy to spend someone else's money that will only be done long after you're out of office.

John1066 on Jun 27, 11:46 AM said: @James Andrews: Calling you on this. Post proof of this. And one unnamed source is not proof. Are you pushing a lie?
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toddd

on Jun 27, 11:54 AM said:

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@James Andrews: This is why muni bonds and pensions, etc. should be ILLEGAL.

To me it's a bit like being able to take out a credit card in someone else's name. You have these parasites get elected, give themselves pay raises, outrageous benefits, then they borrow money to build and buy stuff in the city while giving and getting kickbacks.....then they walk away. How fair is it that some person just moves to a city and suddenly they are on the hook for millions of dollars olf debt and pensions....while elected officials *cough robbers* walk away with no liability....

John1066 on Jun 27, 12:01 PM said: @toddd: Actually pensions are not like take out a credit card is someone else names. It moves the risk of the return on investment from the person receiving the pension to the entity providing the pension. A person can also set this up with a 3rd party. It's called annuities. Have you ever done any research on retirement?
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Cite A Source on Jun 27, 12:20 PM said: @James Andrews: In most cities and towns you have to put in 20 yrs to get a pension and healthcare.
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toddd

on Jun 27, 12:32 PM said:

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@John1066: Uh yeah. Maybe you've heard of underfunded muni pensions? Yeah, it's a credit card. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/city-pensions-americas-50-biggest-municipal-pension-shortfalls/story?id=12366160#.T-s1Z_UqE8s

John1066 on Jun 27, 12:50 PM said:

Flag as Offensive @toddd: And who's fault is it that it's under funded? See the problem you have run into is one can buy annuities on the open market. The customer is the one sending money into it. It's up to the insurance company to meet the interest promise. In the case of a pension the company or government agency sends in the money and they also meet the interest promise. They signed up it's their head on the line same with the insurance company.

The agency signed up and took the risk and now they want to back out. Would you let an insurance company do the same thing? No most folks would sue the insurance company if they did that. It has nothing to do with a credit card.

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Really? on Jun 27, 1:32 PM said: @James Andrews: You're a joke and a jerk. I knew you were lying. Amazing that idiots give you thumbs up for posting a bald-faced lie. That PROVES that their posts are strictly based on an agenda, not on facts. There is no such benefit and you are a LIAR and an ASSHOLE.
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Marty on Jun 27, 9:59 AM said: who cares....this town had plenty of chances to fix its problems.
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who CARES? on Jun 27, 11:27 AM said: @Marty: Are you going to use this same line with the federal government and blame yourself?
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sucks but.. on Jun 27, 10:12 AM said: This is what happens when you build too many houses, fill them with illegal aliens, each borrowing $500k on a subprime loan they cant pay and bloat up your public sector with outrageous pension and welfare plans based on phantom tax revenues which are supposed to come from - all those illegal aliens. Idiots. Let them go broke, annex the place to Sacramento - another armpit on the bankruptcy train
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John1066 on Jun 27, 11:48 AM said: @sucks but..: Wow I think you have set a record for most Republican talking points in one post. Nice. I'm sure if you focus and try it again you can get in how Obama's a Muslim in it too. give it another shot.
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which part was false? on Jun 27, 12:53 PM said: @John1066: So, out of the statements made? Which were false? (crickets)
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John1066 on Jun 27, 12:59 PM said: @which part was false?: All of them should be considered lies until you post proof of your points. What you have posted is just truthyness. That's all. 100% opinion. You need to be called out on it for everyone to see.
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Andrew J on Jun 27, 2:00 PM said: @John1066: Oh please. Even the LA Times said the same (from today's paper): "Stockton...lived largely on credit during economic boom times." "The city borrowed millions of dollars for ambitious, eye-catching projects in the mid-2000s" "Houses in sprawling tracts sold quickly and with high mortgages." "It offered generous city employee pension plans and benefits." "Private citizens, like the city, bought on credit. Those neighborhoods would soon have among the highest rates of foreclosures in the nation."
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But, you're probably right. The LA Times is well-known for pushing a far-right, republican agenda through "truthynesss" on it's front page. Ok. So what's YOUR solution? Let's see, higher taxes...and, wait, higher taxes...and oh yeah, "its the banksters fault", and...blame Bush while we're at it, ask Washington for a bailout, or the Fed, or "the 1%". Hold a protest. Get some UC/CalState kids to riot. All sensible solutions, I'm sure.

John1066 on Jun 27, 3:02 PM said: @Andrew J: Interesting now lets focus on the "illegal aliens" part where is that? Or are you just trying to race bate? Oh and where's the link. I don't trust you at all so link please.
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Still grasping at statistics on Jun 27, 4:37 PM said: @John1066: BI messaging system not allowing links to be posted. Go to the LA Times website. Two articles on Stockton. Today. C'mon. Off you go...
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Race bait? Please. You must not live in CA or you're safely ensconced in a bubble in San Francisco or Santa Monica far from the realities of this state. Read any number of books on the subprime crisis, or again, that bastion of the right, the LA Times. Loans were being handed out to anyone with a pulse, legal or otherwise. Still waiting for solutions by the way...

Frenchy on Jun 27, 11:06 AM said: Who cares? Their public-sector unions created this mess. That's the point you conveniently left out. No, I say let those people stew in their own filth until they come to their senses and get rid of public sector unions. Only then will public finances improve.
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kryptic on Jun 27, 1:46 PM said: @Frenchy: No, this was purely a failure of the elected officials. 100% their fault. Normally only elected officials get these kind of benefits. One of the side-effects of Prop 13 in CA is that established property owners pay the same taxes regardless of whether the elected officials are frugal or whether they approve stupid deals. Consequently there is no real incentive for the elected officials to stand up for frugality.
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buckethead on Jun 27, 11:10 AM said: Murder rate is soaring due to police dept being "gutted"?
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If this is the case, there is no hope for American Society. If we cannot refrain from murdering others without a police deterrent, we're fucked. (Sorry, but there's no non-profane to describe the fact)

Naive on Jun 27, 11:25 AM said: @buckethead: You are naive if you think any society yon earth can survive without police deterrence. Surely you understand by now that desperate people will do desperate and horrible things to survive. No jobs = no food = desperate people who will do anything. including murder.
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buckethead on Jun 27, 11:34 AM said: @Naive: I'm sure that I'm naive on many levels, but as for this topic, we currently have social safety nets in place, and people are not killing other people for fear of starvation... yet. for the time being it is for turf/money or a crime of passion.
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John1066 on Jun 27, 11:50 AM said: @buckethead: wow you really have no clue about how the world works. Sorry hate to break it to you but people do murder other people. it's just a fact of life. It's not right and should be punished but it does happen. Police are needed.
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buckethead on Jun 27, 12:07 PM said: @John1066: I cannot claim to know exactly "how the world works". That would be vast knowledge indeed. If you reread my post, you might notice that i did not make a judgement as to whether police departments are needed. Had you asked, I would have opined that police are necessary.
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As for how the world works, Would you say the police deter most potential murders, or that they react to murders which have already occurred, as a general rule?

John1066 on Jun 27, 12:29 PM said: @buckethead: "If we cannot refrain from murdering others without a police deterrent, we're fucked" Would you like to rephrase this? Until you do I'll stand by my statement.
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buckethead on Jun 27, 12:42 PM said: @John1066: My statement stands on it's own merits.
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If we (You and I, john) cannot refrain from murdering others.... (not a high bar to reach in my opinion) without a police deterrent (you know, simply because we shouldn't kill people who aren't trying to kill us) Then..... There is no mention we should not have a police force. This really isn't rocket surgery. BTW the self green upon each post is rather pathetic. Junk away, sailor....

Al on Jun 27, 12:47 PM said: @Naive: It's a horrific slander attack on every law-abiding citizen in the US to say that lack of jobs/money is the cause of the increase in violent crime.
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One might logically argue that there are many areas of the world where poverty is much more widespread, and those poor live in far more desperate circumstances than any of America's "poor," but their rates of violent crime are a tiny fraction of what we see in Stockton, CA. Spend some time in the third world and see how peaceful and friendly some of the poorest people on earth really are, before you pretend that there is something about being poor that causes people to lose their sense of morality and decency. Your post is a ridiculously ignorant slur.

John1066 on Jun 27, 12:56 PM said: @buckethead: Then you have no idea how the world works and I will stand by my statement.
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Amazing what some folks think. You have now set the bar to a place that will never be meet. You are well on your way to be disappointed and after a bit the hatred will start to build. "Why doesn't the world work the way I want it to?"I feel sorry for you.

Al on Jun 27, 12:57 PM said: @buckethead: Crime tends to be much more of a product of immorality than of poverty. There are many places across the globe where
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people live peacefully in poverty that would shock even the most wanting of America's "poor." If you look at what Americans call "poor," we're usually talking about people who have a home of their own, heat, air conditioning, televisions in multiple rooms, food to eat, and more. It's one thing to try to excuse shoplifting or even perhaps a break-in when someone is truly hungry. But when well-fed Americans who live in relative comfort commit violent acts against fellow citizens the cause has nothing to do with poverty.

imdwightgooden

on Jun 27, 2:27 PM said:

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@John1066: here's how the world is going to work- i, and many of similar mindset to me, are going to kick you in the teeth

you think this is the last municipality where the lazy turd union pensioners are gonna get haircuts????? HAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! we're gonna eff you all over and stick it to you... hope you like friskies MFers!!!!

blendedpurple (URL) on Jun 27, 11:10 AM said: Wait until LA declares bankruptcy.
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Turn the pubic sector into McDonalds and expect 3rd world style bribe taking and corruption to become a fact of life. There was a reason the U.S. decided to have a professional public sector, but the elite now is too stupid to remember it.

Why? on Jun 27, 11:27 AM said: @Horus: Why is he a comedian? You don't want professional police, firefighters, teachers, etc? I know I do. You just sound like a bitter, jealous jerk that probably lives on a McJob and has no idea what it means to be a professional at anything.
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DeDe_Fake on Jun 27, 11:40 AM said: @blendedpurple: If what we have now is a 'professional' public sector, we don't need it. Other civilized societies have much smaller, more efficient public sectors where workers don't earn more in retirement than they do during their working lives.
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Why? on Jun 27, 1:36 PM said: @DeDe_Fake: Really, then you should be able to post the names of the police officers and their municiplaties if they are so unprofessional. Unrtil you can do that you are just a loud mouthed jerk. You know nothing, asswipe.
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Remmeber what you said if your house if ever on fire or you need a police officer to help you. Make sure you tell them how unprofesional they are, asshole.

db on Jun 27, 11:18 AM said: So, a city with nearly 50% Latino and 30% under 18yo cannot make it? The inept leaders of an uneducated population coudn't turn it around? Shocking....GO RAIDERS
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Frenchy on Jun 27, 11:29 AM said: @db: Again, it's unsustainable. The takers outnumber the producers. It's a house of cards. If you're in California, it's seriously time to consider getting out before it descends into chaos. Good luck to you.
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LivinginCal on Jun 27, 11:46 AM said: @Frenchy: Yea, cause a city of 290,000 people is the entire state of california. Clearly I should quit my mid-6-figure-salary-heavily-vestedin-equity startup job and get out of San Francisco because of what is happening in Stockton.
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Yup. Fucking idiot.

Brian M on Jun 27, 12:53 PM said: @LivinginCal: If you are making 6 figures with equity share and have time to comment on this website, then yes it is time to get out. Obvioulsly your company is a house of cards just bleeding out VC money. In the real world people that make that kind of money are actually busy, and have better things to do then comment on websites!
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jake-elwood

on Jun 27, 1:01 PM said:

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@Frenchy: socialism /Communism always fails when the OPM pump runs dry, LOL...

imdwightgooden

on Jun 27, 2:30 PM said:

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@LivinginCal: you're actually the idiot as stockton is much more representative of the health of california than your VC world is... sorry but VCs are a small % of the overall employment in CA... and unfortunately for you, those municipalities are gonna bankrupt the state

DeDe_Fake on Jun 27, 11:31 AM said:

Flag as Offensive The sad thing is, nobody (in power) in California will learn from this. California is run by unions and illegal immigrant lobbying. It's close to 3rd world status in much of the state - chest high thickets of weeds growing in once neatly maintained public spaces, graffiti covers the state from border to border, city budgets spent primarily on retired workers. But the leaders delude themselves with thoughts of California's (dwindling) wealth, thinking that Facebook or Hollywood will save them from the death spiral they're in.

d on Jun 27, 11:38 AM said: Libertarian paradise.

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H Bogart on Jun 27, 12:05 PM said: @d: Libertarian paradise? Here in CA? The tax and spend Democrats own this one.
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Arnold on Jun 27, 12:23 PM said: @H Bogart: I thought Arnold was the Governator for a bunch of years. Didn't he straighten all this stuff out?
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Fredllede on Jun 27, 4:59 PM said: @Arnold: Naw, it was Ronald Reagan who put in the gun control laws back in '68.
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janchup on Jun 27, 11:53 AM said: Letting the meth tweakers and the gangsters kill each other might be the best plan.
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kryptic on Jun 27, 1:48 PM said: @janchup: Because that is working so well in Mexico?
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nwcynic on Jun 27, 11:58 AM said: It's not the first city and won't be the last - the US dominos are going to start falling. From cities, to counties, to states to the federal level - it's going to start coming down.
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As for all these public unions and their out - out - outrageous pensions and benefits - fuck em. they deserve no better 401k or otherwise than John Q Public and are leaches on the private economy. When the body is invested with too many leaches - it dies. GM and most auto companies went bankrupt with the same luxurious pension packages they used to give their workers - and look where that got them. Our public sector is drowning under the same weight. Privatize the entire system I say - NO public offices or employees, spin it off for a royalty of revenues to a private company. Only have say a board of 5 city managers who overseas the operating companies.

Bill (URL) on Jun 27, 12:05 PM said: Yep...this goes with your ridiculous post yesterday that Liberals Are Proven To Be Smarter AND the one today that the economy is in awesome shape. Looks like all those jobs and employment opportunities require a hoody and a 9MM
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kimboslice on Jun 27, 12:20 PM said: The cops, firemen, and public employees cost Stockton a fortune. But, don't forget, the residents of Stockton include tons of losers and illegal alien anchor babies, etc. who are bankrupting the town.
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policearestupid on Jun 27, 12:24 PM said:

Flag as Offensive Hopefully this proves the theory of hiring too many police never works, and is also way too EXPENSIVE. Every one of those police hired each year, means that many more who will get carried forever on fat pensions, and medical premiums. Current generations of city taxpayers are paying for the past 30 years of police and firefighters, who are all now retired. Keep in mind that as these are boomers who are retiring en masse, that all these forces were heavily beefed up to respond to the explosion in the boomer population itself. Our prisons are bloated with the criminal element boomers who are also nearing old age. Problem is now we too have to keep these expensive sr citizen boomers who are in jail alive and fed and provided with healthcare.

Demographics are coming home to roost in spades here in the US. The outside boomer population has bankrupted every segment of society, and will continue to do so for the next 2 decades. We hired WAY too many cops and police, yet we still had oodles of crime, and America has the most people in prison per capita of ANY country in the world. More cops = more prisoners = more people society has to pay for who are not working or providing any meaningful or productive societal benefit. There are far better and less costly solutions, such as neighborhood watches, people/cities/towns not enabling criminals, and of course not outsourcing jobs where many of these criminals could have been earning a living instead of stealing a living. America: home of the freely stupid, and not so brave, and now largely insolvent. Many many other cities and states are worse off than Stockton, they just haven't made it official yet and filed for bankruptcy. Instead they just delay payments to vendors, and employees, further crippling businesses and creating a worse economic hole, thus creating more unemployed, and yes, even more criminals. You are free to be stupid here, and the people of Stockton, and many other towns across America, have taken that up in spades.

John Liozeris

on Jun 27, 1:03 PM said:

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Unemployed police are dangerous. I mean more dangerous than they were employed.

Vytautas Kerbelis (URL) on Jun 28, 3:56 PM said:

Flag as Offensive The BBC ran info on the place if not only way out of debt and El Pais ran story. As I see it from my global pers pective it is a great shame for silicon valley so much promise for America quote american ambassador to Spain a jewish flop for most who see dominant persons involved. As for debt crisis for America thank George W Bush who signed over 600 billion before Obama took over. As for Europe its debt is peanuts to that gold taken from the

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jews pulling all those teeth before the gas chamber. What a world of nuts but that is life being so cruel and forget the past but not for me..watch this space

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