DrKildem 11 months ago Bring just ONE scholar from our era who has benefitted this ummah

more than Ibn Uthaymeen, rahimahullah.

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MrMamini 9 months ago Ibn Uthaymeen's influence is simply confined to Saudi Arabia. He doesn't have any influence outside of that area. Without a doubt, Tariq Ramadan has had more benefit and influence over both the Muslims, and the non-Muslims.
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DrKildem 9 months ago Wrong on so many counts. I said BENEFIT, not influence. Not the same thing. But even with influence Ramadan, with his "let's appease the faafir" approach, does not touch Ibn Uthaumeen. Ramadan is NOT a scholar of Islam by any stretch of the imagination. His influence is confined to Saudi? Don't joke with me you pillock. How many books of knowledge has Ramadan explained? How many of his fatawa (though he is not qualified for it) are being followed globally by Muslims?
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MrMamini 9 months ago Your chain of causation is flawed; by default, one must have influence in order to benefit somebody. You touched upon a very important crisis within the modern Muslim Ummah; the legitimization of who can speak on Islam. You differentiate between the educational knowledge of 'Uthaymeen and Ramadan, even though they both studied at institutions that are based on a Western model (yes, Egypt and Saudi have schools modeled after Western models.
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DrKildem 9 months ago You can influence someone but NOT benefit them, think! Who decides who is a scholar? The followers of the Qur'an decide. Uthaymeen speaks solely from the Qur'an whereas Ramadan speaks from his rear end. Big difference. Yes the beard has a lot to do with it. As ibn

Uthaymeen himself said that the beardless man is saying to the people: 'Look at me, I am OPENLY disobeying the prophet.' Ibn Uthaymeen studied under As-Sa'di. Again, let's talk about the KNOWLEDGE both of these men have disseminated.
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MrMamini 9 months ago Abd ar-Rahman ibn Nasir as-Sa'di isn't an institution, he is merely a single man. The act of benefit is also very subjective, thus you cannot apply an absolute to it. "Followers of the Qur'an" is a very abstract concept that you're putting forth. I'm assuming you're a follower a the Qur'an, yet that doesn't give you the authority to decide who is a scholar, and who is not.
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DrKildem 9 months ago "The act of benefit is also very subjective, thus you cannot apply an absolute to it." Tell me, in no uncertain terms that Ramadan has benefitted this ummah more than ibn Uthaymeen. Go on, say it. Sure, Tariq has done some good stuff but comparing him to Uthaymeen is an insult. The kuffaar will pay attention to him because he appeases them and is the "modernist" type. Uthaymeen is a "traditionalist" type. If you take Ramadan to be a scholar then so be it.
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MrMamini 9 months ago The fact that your rejecting my contentions for Ramadan's benefit on this Ummah makes it uncertain. You're illogical gymnastics is populating your argument with holes. The fact that you consider Ramadan a "modernist" shows your inherent ignorance on Ramadan's opinions. The fact that you consider Uthaymeen a traditionalist shows your despicable miscomprehension of traditional Islam.

Reply in reply to DrKildem DrKildem 9 months ago

I'll ask you one more time and don't beat about the bush: Has Ramadan benefitted this ummah with more traditional knowledge than ibn Uthaymeen? "You're illogical gymnastics is populating your argument with holes." Yes, like 'influence implies benefit'. Very logical. "Uthaymeen has no certification or right to transmit the blessed knowledge of Islam..." Oh dear, I'm dealing with a certified heretic. A tree is known by its fruits. Compare the works of the two parties. No comparison.
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MrMamini 9 months ago This comment has received too many negative votes Saudi has hotels RIGHT NEXT TO THE HARAM, that not only allow, but promote smoking, something that not even Western countries do. Saudi has some of the most gross episodes of gluttony ever experienced in the plant. They have some of the highest concentration of drugs, alcohol, and prostitution within the population of princes. Yes, indeed, you can tell the integrity of a tree based upon its fruits.
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DrKildem 9 months ago Eh? Since when were we talking about Saudi? "YES, Ramadan has benefitted the Ummah with more TRADITIONAL knowledge than Uthaymeen." Yes. Keep repeating that to yourself, you might even convince someone with a scintilla of Islamic knowledge. Traditional knowledge is that of aqeedah, fiqh, usool, mustalah, tafseer. It beats me how you arrive at the conclusion that Ramadan has disseminated more of this than Uthaymeen.To you, the truth is like dog seeing daylight - a total blur.
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MrMamini 9 months ago This comment has received too many negative votes SubhanAllah, you're confused by your own arguments. You mentioned that fact that you can tell a tree by its fruits; look at what each man has produced. Again, you shouldn't judge someone until you've taken a look

at their material. That is at the height of compounded ignorance. Your forgot to mention Seerah as part of the traditional sciences, as well. Also, comparing my perception of tradition to that of a dog will not earn you any brownie points, my brother.
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DrKildem 8 months ago Owwwwww, I want brownie points! I wanna, I wanna! Look, deviant, why don't you get your hand off your dick and see reality. Has Ramadan produced explanations of Bukhari, Muslim, Nooniya, Bulughul Maram, Kitaabut Tawheed, Alwaraqaat, Aqeedatul Waasitiya, Bayquniya, Zaad al-mustqni, tafsir along with many other book explanations and thousands of fataawa and other written books? Come on now, you need not hang your head in shame. I forgive you for your ignorance. ;-)
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MrMamini 8 months ago This comment has received too many negative votes You really are absolutely, unequivocally, intellectually bankrupt. The fact that you have to lower yourself to use childish rhetoric, within a discourse involving peoples of knowledge, really shows me the rotten fruit of Uthaymeen's labor. Merely listing off books does nothing for your argument, rather, it supports my contention; the fact that 'Uthaymeen cannot produce original work is testimony to inability to participate within classical discourse.
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DrKildem 8 months ago His explanations ARE original works in that there is nothing similar to it. He brings fawaa'id that you do not find elsewhere (mainly). Explaining Bukhari has profound benefits for the layman e.g Ramadan. Knowing the proper understanding of a hadeeth makes a difference. Why don't you list Ramadan's works and let's compare. Remember we are talking about traditional knowledge which raises a Muslim's status with Allah. Uthaymeen can answer relevant questions with the knowledge he's left behind....

DrKildem 8 months ago (Part 2) e.g 'Why is Mr.Mamini such a heretic?' Uthymeen can answer this question. Can you give me some fataawa that Ramadan has passed because I'll give you LITERALLY 1000s from Uthaymeen, fully in accordance with the Quran and sunnah. Anyone who dares mention Ramadan in the same breath as Uthaymeen is intellectually malnourished, or a heretic, or - as in your case - both.
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MrMamini 8 months ago This comment has received too many negative votes Like the fatwa 'Uthaymeen issued saying it's halal for an immigrant Muslim to make Muta'ah with an American women in order to gain citizenship? Give me a break. You sound like an apologetic Christian when he tries to defend Paul. You have given me not a SINGLE argument, rather you have asked me numerous questions in a pathetic attempt to exhaust my intellectual capacity but, again, you're coming up grotesquely short.
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DrKildem 8 months ago I have not heard of the Mut'ah fatwa, as far as I know he is opposed to the Mutah and any variations of it. What the Muslims need today are fataawa based on authentic sources which ibn Uthaymeen has provided in the thousands and Ramadan has not: fact. Yes ibn Uthaymeen's explanation of K.Tawhid is better than F.Majid - more benficial, addresses more issues and is clearer for the student. He has left behind students who are teaching the layman today. Ramadan can't boast half of that.
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MrMamini 8 months ago Salafism would not work in the 9th century, nor will it wok in our modern era. We've had our beautiful tradition for more than 1,000 years, then these ignorant, desert Bedouins come out of nowhere, driven my political heathenism, and claim that we have been misguided. Give me a break.

Reply in reply to DrKildem

DrKildem 8 months ago I didn't say the fatwa didn't exist. If you could provide a link, though. I am not a salafist. I just recognise knowledgeable people when I see/hear them. I have not seen a more intellectual alim than Ibn U. The way he balances text and reason together - like ibn Taymiya did - is refreshing. The way he compares opinions in fiqh is unparalleled. I am not saying Ramadan has not benefitted anyone, but his works could be done by non Muslim orientalists as well - it does not make them scholars.
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MrMamini 8 months ago Don't you dare talk to me about orientalists. Wilfred Cantwell Smith would put Uthaymeen to shame in terms of Islamic knowledge. This is how pathetic we've become. The fact that you parade a man who graduated from a Western structured school, who has no traditional ijaza or sanad, as an "ALIM", is absolutely pathetic. A man who wrote NOTHING in terms of helping Muslims deal with modern day problems. You're misguided as much as orientalists are.
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Mohammed Jama 8 months ago Can I ask where this Mr Smith sought his knowledge, and has he memorized the Qur'an and Authentic Hadeeths? As a side note, do you know that this Mr Smith, who is so knowledgeable (!) actually questioned the concept of Religion?
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MrMamini 8 months ago Don't ask me rhetorical questions. I'm using him as proof to show how pathetic the modern concept of "Islamic education" is. What benefit does regurgitating source texts give if there is no understanding. Islam is not a religion; claiming so is restricting the tradition and creating an "Arab" strand of Christianity. The fact that you contextually show unease about the fact that he questioned "religion", in the modern sense, shows your ignorance with his argument.