Mengi V Hermitage 2102 Trial Transcript

MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 2]
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IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION
Claim No: HQ10D04585
Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London WC2A 2LL Tuesday, 6th November 2012 Before: MR. JUSTICE BEAN
MENGI - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes, it has. 3 Q. You see that it says just above the signature, "I believe that 4 the facts stated in this witness statement are true." Is that
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correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Does this constitute your evidence in this case, so far as it 8 is written down?
5 9 A. Yes, it does. 10 Q. Yes, thank you. Mr. Mengi, how old are you? 11 A. I am 70. 12 Q. You, I think, founded, in 1992, some media organisations in 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
BETWEEN:
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REGINALD MENGI Claimant -andSARAH HERMITAGE Defendant ----------
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(Transcript of the Stenograph/Shorthand Notes of Marten Walsh Cherer Ltd., 1st Floor, Quality House, 6-9 Quality Court, Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1HP. Telephone No: 020 7067 2900. email - info@martenwalshcherer.com) ---------MR. RICHARD RAMPTON QC and MR. AIDAN EARDLEY (instructed by Whitman Breed) appeared for the Claimant.
MR. JAMES PRICE QC and MR. JONATHAN BARNES (instructed by Carter-Ruck) appeared for the Defendant. ---------PROCEEDINGS EVIDENCE DAY 1 24 ---------25
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Tanzania? A. Yes. Q. You founded some media organisations? A. Yes, I did. Q. Principally, the Guardian and Independent Television, ITV. A. Yes. Q. The Guardian has a sister paper called Nipashe, which is a Swahili newspaper. A. Yes. Q. What does Nipashe mean in Swahili? A. "Give me news." Q. "Give me news"? Q. Mr. Mengi, you had by that time qualified as an accountant in
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1 2 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, if it is convenient, I will call Mr. Mengi 3 5 6 8 9 10 11 12
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now to give evidence? REGINALD MENGI, SWORN EXAMINED BY MR. RAMPTON QC forwards so that you can use the front of the witness box for the papers. Do you see a file with No. 2 on it beside you? Yes, that one. Can you open it, please, at the beginning, at the first page? Can you open it up? Behind the first divider there should be a witness statement. Yes?
4 MR JUSTICE BEAN: Yes.
7 Q. Mr. Mengi, you may find it convenient to move the chair
13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Has it got your name on it? 15 A. Yes, my Lord. 16 Q. Do you recognise that as a witness statement you made for 17
these proceedings?
18 A. I do. 19 Q. Does it give your full name? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Is the address it gives correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Would you look, please, at page 75, I think it is, of that 24 25
witness statement? It is right at the end. It is the last page. Has it got your signature on it?
MENGI - RAMPTON Glasgow, I think? A. Yes. Q. You had worked as the head person in the office of Coopers and Lybrand, in Dar es Salaam for some years? A. Yes, I did. Q. You had, also, by that time, established a bottling business? A. Yes. Q. A bottling business in Moshi? A. Yes, I did. Q. That is called Bonite Bottling? A. Yes. Q. I think you had some other businesses as well? A. Yes. Q. Why was it in 1992, Mr. Mengi, that you decided to establish media outlets? A. At that time, I realised that there was a vacuum in the media and I took the opportunity to try and fill that vacuum. There was need for unbiased news, which at that time was not forthcoming, but I saw this as an opportunity to fill the vacuum and, also, I saw a business opportunity in this field. Q. At that time, in 1992, you tell us in paragraph 24 of your witness statement -- you do not need to look at it -- that you saw a demand for news that was independent and uncensored? A. Yes.
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MENGI - RAMPTON media outlets? one-man show and another company, before I went into this business, had also established some other papers. Government, state-owned? were principally two papers, Government papers, called the Daily News and Uhuriu.
2 Q. At that time in Tanzania, were there any other independent 4 A. There were some small, what are called petty tabloids, a
MENGI - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. My question is this: against that background, Mr. Mengi, how 4 important is it to you that people should be able to trust
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7 Q. To what extent were the media outlets in Tanzania owned by the 9 A. Just before that time, everything was state-owned and there
you? 6 A. Many things I have done in my life are based on the trust 7 people have in me and they believe in me, so trust, belief
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must be very important in my life. 9 Q. We are all familiar in this court with what we have been 10 calling the Silverdale Farm dispute, Mr. Mengi, which involved
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12 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I am sorry, what was the second one? 13 A. My Lord, Uhuriu is spelt U-H-U-R-I-U. 14 MR. RAMPTON: Uhuriu, which I think is Swahili for "freedom"? 15 A. Exactly. 16 Q. How many independent newspapers in Tanzania are there now? 17 A. There has been a big mushroom of newspapers in Tanzania, some 18 20 21 22
daily, some weekly, but almost 30 papers. statement -- again we do not need to look at them -- you have given an account of a very wide range of activities that you conduct and participate in in Tanzania?
19 Q. You have in paragraphs, I think it is 4-11 of your witness
23 A. Yes. 24 Q. My question is this: one of those activities is charitable 25
work?
Mr. Stewart Middleton, his wife, Sarah Hermitage and your brother, Benjamin. A. Yes. Q. That was concerned with a piece of land up near Moshi, in the Kilimanjaro area? A. Yes, my Lord. Q. Two things, please -- firstly, a general question: how close are you to your brother, Benjamin? A. Naturally, he is my young brother, in that context we are very close, but when it comes to business and general behaviour, we are not that close. Q. How often do you see him? A. Very irregularly. Q. Do you have any joint business interests with him? A. No.
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MENGI - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You tell us that you have funded various projects in health, 4 in education, relief of poverty and so on.
1 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Also, the environment, in Tanzania. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you personally fund those charitable works? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. To what sort of extent every year? 11 A. Anything, two million, three million, it depends on the size 12 of the activity. 13 Q. You have told us in paragraph 10 of your witness statement of 14 a number of international awards you have been given. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Including, for example, in 2008, the Martin Luther King Drum 17 Major for Justice award and a Business For Peace award by the 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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MENGI - RAMPTON Have you ever had any joint business interests with him? No. Does he own shares in any of your companies? No. Do you have any interests in any of the land or undertakings that he owns? A. No. Q. Specifically, in relation to the Silverdale dispute, -- let us start, if I may, in June/July 2005 -- what did you know of that dispute at that time? A. I had scant information on the case and confined to what I heard from business (inaudible) in Moshi that there was a problem at Silverdale, but I did not know the details of the problem or the file. Q. I think there came a time in July 2005 when you were up in Moshi on the business of the bottling company and some of your business people mentioned the dispute between your brother and the Middletons. Is that right? A. Yes, yes. Q. Did you do anything about that at that time? A. Yes, the first thing I did was to try to call my brother, young brother, and ask him to resolve the issue with himself and Mr. Middleton because I knew they were good friends. Q. Was there a Dr. Ezekiel Kimaro involved at some stage in this? Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Nobel Laureate Committee? A. Yes. Q. Also, a number of other things of that character. I think there are, all together, nine of them at least. A. Yes. Q. You have listed a number of your business interests and what I might call your campaigning activities in Tanzania, particularly against corruption and poverty. Yes?
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MENGI v HERMITAGE
MENGI - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes, he called me and told me that there was a problem with 3 Silverdale between my brother and Mr. Middleton and I did ask
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him to see whether he could help them to resolve the dispute
MENGI - RAMPTON 2 A. He did. 3 Q. What did he say? 4 A. He said the papers were not fair to him, they were defaming
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as two former friends. 6 Q. There was a meeting (and we are going to cover that very 7 briefly in a moment, Mr. Mengi) on 13th December 2005, at your house. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Attended by yourself, Mr. Andrew Pocock, the British High 11 Commissioner and Mr. Stewart Middleton, was there not?
8 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Again, a couple of preliminary questions: had you met 14 Mr. Stewart Middleton before that meeting? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. How many times? 17 A. I think, I can only think of one or two and not more than
that. 19 Q. I think -- I do not want to remind you of an unhappy event, 20 though it will be some years ago now -- he came, I think, to
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your son's funeral up at Moshi in October of 2005? 22 A. He did. 23 Q. I think you also knew Mr. Pocock, the High Commissioner, quite 24 well?
21 25 A. Yes.
him and he sort of complained about the coverage of those papers. Q. Did he mention any specific articles? A. No. Q. How long do that piece of conversation last? What did you say in response? Let me ask you that first. A. I told him that, regarding the coverage I said I am not the editor of the papers and I cannot tamper or interfere with coverage. Q. Did you make any promise to intervene in the coverage and put a stop to it? A. No. Q. During this conversation about the coverage, was Dr. Pocock present? A. He was. Q. Did you make any promise to sort your brother out, if I may use that word? A. I did not make that statement. Q. Did you make any promise to pay the Middleton's costs of your brother's proceedings against them? A. I did not.
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MENGI - RAMPTON 2 Q. Did you make any promise to have the Middleton's lease 3 registered?
1 4 A. I did not. 5 Q. After that you received, in the early part of 2006, some 6 letters, or your newspaper did and then you personally, from 7 8 9 10 11 12
MENGI - RAMPTON Q. Going on, if you like, to that meeting in December 2005, who arranged that meeting? Whose suggestion was it? A. The High Commissioner arranged the meeting, but for a while I could not even remember who had arranged the meeting, but now it has passed it was the High Commissioner who arranged the meeting. Q. Did he say what the purpose of the meeting was to be? A. Yes, he told me that he had arranged to meet with Mr. Middleton. He did not specify the location. Q. I think it is suggested by the defendant that you had requested the meeting because you were concerned about the effect that the dispute was having on your family name? A. That is not true. Q. That is now true. Thank you. Now, the meeting took place on 13th December. Morning or afternoon? A. I really cannot remember the time. It was such a long time ago, I cannot remember the exact time. Q. What was the atmosphere at the meeting? A. Very friendly. Q. How long do you think the meeting lasted in all? A. I would think a couple of hours, but again I really cannot remember the exact amount of time we spent on the meeting. Q. Did Mr. Middleton mention the coverage of the Silverdale Farm dispute that had appeared in the Guardian and Nipashe?
Sarah Hermitage which we now know -- two of them were signed by Mr. Middleton, but we now know they were written by Sarah Hermitage. Do you have a file there, a slim file, not that one. You can put that one away for the moment, if you wish. Page 199. Get out a file called file 1.2.
13 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: It is the one on top. 14 MR. RAMPTON: I think it is the one on top. Before I come to the 15 letters written by the Middletons, can you turn to the tab 16 17 18
marked "D"? It is the last tab in the file, page 196. This is a letter -- have you got that? This is a letter from the
High Commissioner to you the day after the meeting? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Would you just read that letter to yourself, please? 21 A. Thank you.
22 Q. Did that letter, when you received it -- does it now, for that 23 matter -- seem to you a fair and accurate account of what had
taken place at the meeting? 25 A. Yes.

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MENGI - RAMPTON Q. Over the page, two days later, you wrote -- notice, Mr. Mengi, that that letter from the High Commissioner was copied to Mr. Middleton. Over the page there is a letter from you dated 16th December, also copied to Mr. Middleton. It is addressed to Mr. Pocock. Can you just read it to yourself? A. Yes. Q. Does that letter or does it not represent what you had said you would do at the meeting? A. It represents. Q. The third paragraph on the first page of that letter sets out what you say Ben told you when you had a preliminary discussion with him. Yes? A. Yes. Q. Did you have a preliminary discussion with Ben? A. Yes, after the letter, I did -- before the letter, I spoke to him and they gave me some conditions, which I said in my letter. Q. Did you understand what it was that Ben had told you would be his conditions for compromising? A. Yes, he just implied to me that (inaudible) must be fulfilled before he accepts my role as a mediator. Q. My question, perhaps, was not very clear. Did you understand the detail of what he was proposing? A. No.
MENGI - RAMPTON 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You will see, if you read on -- I am sure you have read it 4 before -- that it is a complaint about coverage in the
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newspapers, your newspapers, IPP newspapers, coverage of the Silverdale dispute since the meeting. I think that is what it is. The top right-hand corner of the letter has this: "ALN, this is a Guardian issue" and then a monogram or signature. Whose signature is that? A. That is my signature. Q. That signature is written four days after the letter was received, presumably in your office. On the left-hand side -- who is ALN? Sorry, I should have asked you that. A. He is my Chief Corporate Counsel, Mr. Nguma. Q. Agapitus Nguma? A. Yes. Q. Whose writing is it on left-hand side that says "Case File"? A. Mr. Nguma's writing. Q. Then, finally in this little string, on page 205 there is another letter to you dated 19th April. Again, it is signed by Mr. Middleton, but we are told that, in fact, it was written by Ms. Hermitage. Top right-hand, I will read the third paragraph, which says this: "You will remember that our meeting called at your request in December 2005 with Andrew Pocock, you were placed on the notice of the libelous
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MENGI - RAMPTON Q. The last line of that letter on the first page of that letter says, "An early response to this proposal will be appreciated." Yes? A. Yes. Q. You wrote that? A. Yes. Q. Did you ever get a response to that? A. Until today. Q. Sorry? A. I have not received any response to my letter. Q. Neither from Dr. Pocock, nor from Mr. Middleton? A. Yes. Q. Please turnover to page 199. This is a letter written by Ms. Hermitage, actually signed by her, to the Managing Editor of the Guardian newspaper. Do you know when you first saw that? A. No, as it never came to me. Q. You did not see it at the time? A. No. Q. Then we need not trouble with it. Turnover, please, I think it is about four pages, to page 203. This is a letter dated 25th March 2006 and addressed to you. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Would you just, please, read the first paragraph to yourself?
MENGI - RAMPTON articles being placed in newspapers owned by the IPP Media Group. You personally gave an undertaking that they would cease." That is underlined and has three manuscript question marks after it, that last sentence. Who underlined that sentence? A. I did. Q. Who put the question marks? A. It is me. Q. What did you mean by the question marks? A. Just to show surprise. Q. Surprise? A. Yes. Q. At the top of the page, this is, I think, uncontroversial, this is another note for Mr. Nguma, written by you: "Please note 1) this is a Guardian Ltd matter. I did not give the underlined undertaking." Is that true, Mr. Mengi? A. Yes, it is true. Q. While you are in this file, just glance, please, at page 211. This is a letter from Ms. Hermitage to you, dated 13th January 2010. She says, "I have written to the Chief Executive officer and all the board members of the Coca-Cola company, the Commonwealth Press Union, the Commonwealth Business Council, the World Bank and the International Finance Corporation with the details of your behaviour in relation to
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MENGI v HERMITAGE
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MENGI - RAMPTON the above. I shall continue to write to organisations of individuals with an interest in promoting ethical behaviour in Tanzania until you honour the promise you made to the British High Commissioner at your meeting with him in 2005; namely, to stop the defamation campaign against us by IPP Media and pay us compensation in relation to your brother's vexatious legal proceedings." What was your reaction upon receiving that letter?
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MENGI - RAMPTON conspiracy, I think, was it not?
2 Q. Claiming, in effect, that he had conspired, it was claiming 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. He had conspired to fund, as it were, the campaign of 6
defamation by Ms. Hermitage against you?
7 A. Yes. 8 Q. That is the nature of the claim. You have agreed, I 9 10 11 12
think -- the other side have these documents, my Lord. Your Lordship does not, I think, yet -- to wave privilege in documents relating to the question of why you discontinued those proceedings?
10 A. My reaction was bad because I read this and I saw someone 11 wanting to get money from me and I, sort of, blackmail of some 12 13
sort because it was not true what she was saying. I had not made any promises.
13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Before we look at that, why did you discontinue proceedings 15 17 18 20
14 Q. No, thank you. Then, finally in this file, a couple of pages 15 on, page 216, a letter from England dated 23rd November 2010, 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
against Mr. Manji? advice what I could do because they wrote back to me and advised me on the case, whether or not to withdraw. that is for the witness. You have got them.
addressed to you in Tanzania, in Dar es Salaam. There is no writing on this one. There is not even a signature at the bottom of the letter. I need perhaps read only the fourth paragraph. "As I informed you earlier in the year, I will, in the public interest, continue to communicate with all organisations and personalities that seek to associate themselves with Tanzania and/or you personally the details of and the corruption associated with the Silverdale Farm case." Did you ever receive that letter, Mr. Mengi?
16 A. I consulted my solicitors in London and after getting the
19 Q. Can I ask you -- I will hand up, that is for his Lordship, 21 MR. PRICE: No, I have never seen them before in my life. 22 MR. RAMPTON: That is not our you fault, since they were disclosed 23
yesterday.
24 MR PRICE: Last night. 25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: They were disclosed yesterday?
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MENGI - RAMPTON 2 A. My Lord, no. 3 Q. Very few things remaining now, Mr. Mengi. Have you read the 4 witness statement in the case of Eric Kamendera?
1 5 A. I have. 6 Q. Have you read what it says about you? 7 A. Yes, it contains a lot of lies. 8 Q. Did you say lies? 9 A. Lies, as what he says about me is not true. 10 Q. What it says about you is not true. Agapitus Nguma is, you 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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MENGI - RAMPTON MR. RAMPTON: Last night. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: As your Lordship said we should disclose any documents relating -- when we had an order ---MR. JUSTICE BEAN: No, I do not mean why were they disclosed at all. Why were they only disclosed last night? MR. RAMPTON: As a decision had to be made whether to wave privilege or not. They are privileged documents. That is an advice by Mr. Eardley. them. complicated.
10 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Perhaps Mr. Price and I better go away and read 12 MR. RAMPTON: If your Lordship wishes. It is not very 14 MR. PRICE: Could I ask why part of it has been redacted? 15 MR. RAMPTON: It does not relate to the question, which is why the 16 17
said, your General Corporate Counsel at IPP Media. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. Did you know that he had also acted, as we are told, for your brother Benjamin in the Silverdale Farm dispute? A. No. Q. When did you first learn that? A. Actually, I learnt about this when I read the witness statements. Q. Yes? A. Yes. Q. Only two other things then, Mr. Mengi: you brought proceedings against a Mr. Yussif Manji in Tanzania. Is that right? A. Yes.
proceedings were discontinued, which was the disclosure we were asked to make.
18 MR. PRICE: It clearly is related. 19 MR. RAMPTON: No, it is not. I will tell you exactly what it is: 20 21 22 24 25
it is advice about the merits of the website claim and I redacted it for that reason. The other side are not entitled to know our views about the merits of the website claim. further. (Pause)
23 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think I had better read this before we go any
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MENGI - RAMPTON MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, right, I have read it. MR. RAMPTON: It is right, Mr. Mengi, that that advice was obtained from Mr. Eardley because on 16th July 2012, the defendant's solicitors, Carter-Ruck, had written to your solicitors saying, "What is the status of the proceedings against Mr. Manji? They may be relevant or they may have an effect on the proceedings in this case." Is that right? A. Yes. Q. My Lord, the file number is, it is file 4 and the page is 129. The last page in this clip, Mr. Mengi, having received Mr. Eardley's advice, is a letter from you to your Tanzanian lawyer, Mr. Michael Ngolo. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. May I read it to you? "Dear Michael.... and then it gives the name of the case against Manji and the number. "...I refer to our recent discussions .... (reads to the words) ... District Court today." Is that what Mr. Ngolo did? A. Yes. Q. Is it true that at that time your priority was these proceedings? A. Yes. Q. Is that still the case? A. Yes, it still remains the case, my Lord. Q. This is my last question: what is it, Mr. Mengi, that you
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MENGI-PRICE CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. PRICE MR. PRICE: Mr. Mengi, can I start by asking you some questions about your office and how it is arranged? IPP's offices are on the seventh floor of a building in the Business District of Dar es Salaam? A. Yes. Q. The Bonite Bottlers business is at Moshi? A. Yes. Q. It has a factory there, does it? A. Yes. Q. Moshi is about 270 miles north of Dar es Salaam. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. Dar es Salaam is on the coast, just to the south of Zanzibar Island? A. Yes. Q. Moshi is right in the north of Tanzania, by the border with Kenya? A. Yes. Q. Close to Kilimanjaro? A. Yes. Q. Which I think is right on the border, is it not? A. No. Q. You have a home in Moshi?
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1 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Bonite Bottlers is, I think, a very important part of your 4
MENGI - RAMPTON would hope to achieve by these proceedings in England?
MENGI-PRICE
3 A. To clear my reputation. 4 Q. Is a judgment of the English court likely to be respected in 5 Tanzania? 6 A. Very much so, yes. 7 Q. Would it please you if this court were to grant an injunction 8 against Ms. Hermitage to stop her saying the things she has 9
business?
5 A. Each company is important to me. 6 Q. Bonite produces a lot of the revenue and profit? 7 A. I say each company is important to me and I value all of them 8
equally.
been saying about you?
9 Q. How much time do you spend in Moshi?
10 A. Very little time because I fully delegate all (inaudible) my 10 A. Yes. 11 11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, Mr. Price. companies. 12 MR. PRICE: My Lord, I will say nothing about this for the moment. 12 Q. What does very little time mean in terms of weeks in the year? 13 A. Sometimes I may stay away for six months, seven months, 13 It is something that I shall obviously need to consider.
14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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without going to Moshi, to the plant.
15 Q. I beg your pardon? 16 A. Sometimes it may take six months or seven months without going 17 19
to Moshi. the seventh floor?
18 Q. I see. Now, the office in Dar es Salaam, your office is on 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. There are various departments of the business, Financial, 22
Marketing and the Legal departments?
23 A. Yes. 24 Q. The Guardian newspapers are produced on an industrial estate 25
about five or so miles away. Is that right?
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MENGI-PRICE A. Yes. Q. ITV, which is your television and radio business, is on the same industrial estate as the Guardian? A. Yes. Q. However, not in the same building? A. No. Q. Are they next-door to each other? A. Next-door, but not the same being building, as you say. Q. No. Does IPP have the whole floor of the office in the Business District? A. Yes. Q. However, only one floor? A. Well, yes, there are some other small offices down below the seventh floor. Q. Right. So you have a bit of the six floor, do you? A. Yes. Q. Your Marketing Director at IPP is called Joyce Luhanga. A. Yes. Q. Does she have her office on the seventh floor? A. Yes. Q. Where is it in relation to your office? A. IPP offices are in two wings and she is in the second wing. Q. Okay. So there are two slightly separate parts of the floor, are there?
MENGI-PRICE
2 Q. Right. What does the Guardian's legal department consist of? 3 A. I am not involved in day-to-day running. 4 Q. No, I understand that. 5 A. So I would not know. 6 Q. You do not know? 7 A. I do not know because they are employed by the Guardian and 8 9 11 13 15
not by me, so I do not have knowledge of who is who in Guardian. that? know who is where in the Guardian. Guardian Ltd have a legal department?
10 Q. Does the Guardian Ltd have a legal department? Do you know 12 A. I say I am not involved in day-to-day operations. I do not 14 Q. I am not asking you who is where, I am asking you does the 16 A. They should have. 17 Q. Do you know or not? 18 A. I do not know details. 19 Q. You do not know. Do you know whether or not they have a legal 20
department?
21 A. They are supposed to have. 22 Q. They do have a legal department? 23 A. They are supposed to have. 24 Q. They are supposed to have? 25 A. Yes.
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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What, with a staircase in the middle? 4 A. No, there are two wings. There is big reception in-between
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. However, you do for the know whether they do or they do not? 3 A. I do not deal with the day-to-day operations of the company. 4 Q. Mr. Nguma is the Chairman of the Guardian Ltd?
1 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. How much time does he spend on the Guardian Ltd's business? 7 A. I do not keep a timesheet for him. 8 Q. No, I am not asking for any precision, I am just asking ---9 A. I have no clue. 10 Q. You have no idea? 11 A. No idea. 12 Q. Okay. Where is Mr. Nguma's office? 13 A. It is in the IPP Headquarters. 14 Q. Just tell us whereabouts, in relation to your office? 15 A. There is a conference room, a conference, sort of little hall, 16 between my offices and his offices. 17 Q. Is that a conference room that you use for business and other 18 meetings? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Is it a room that Mr. Nguma uses, also, for meetings? 21 A. I do not know, he has his own offices. 22 Q. However, you said that this conference room, there was your 23 office and then the conference room and then Mr. Nguma's
the two offices. 6 Q. A reception? Okay. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Mrs Luhanga, she is a director of the Guardian?
5 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. However, she does not have any experience of media businesses; 11 she is a marketing person? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Mr. Nguma, he is the head of your legal department? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. He deals with all the legal affairs in all your businesses. 16 Is that right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. So that is the Guardian, ITV, Bonite Bottling. Your 19 gold-mining business, does he deal with the legal aspects of
that too? 21 A. You must appreciate that every company has a legal officer and 22 the things which come to Mr. Nguma are the things through
20
consultation from the legal officers of the various companies. 24 Q. So the legal officers of the Guardian then, where are they? 25 A. They will be at the Guardian.
23
office. Is that right? 25 A. He can hold meetings in his office, but I do not check whether
24
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MENGI-PRICE he uses the board room. It is a conference room. I do not keep his diary. Q. You must know whether occasionally he uses it. A. I am too busy to know, to find out what every body is doing. Q. So have you any idea how Mr. Nguma divides his time between his various responsibilities in your businesses? A. No clue. Q. No clue? A. No. Q. What about ITV; how much time does he spend on ITV? A. I do not know. Q. Well, you must know that because you are the Chairman of ITV and he is the ---A. Yes, but as the Chairman, I cannot go to the board members and say, "How much time do you spend here or there?" He is a grown-up. Q. Approximately? A. Yes. I would not know. Q. No idea? A. No idea. I would be telling a lie if I say five hours, two hours. I do not know. Q. You do not know? A. I do not get involved in the nitty gritty of operations like that.
MENGI-PRICE 2 A. I am sorry? 3 Q. Do you know or do you not know whether Mr. Nguma has 4 day-to-day responsibilities in running ITV?
1 5 A. I would be very, very shocked if he was spending any time on 6 the operations. He is not supposed to. He is a director of
the company and not an operations manager. 8 Q. What about the Guardian then? 9 A. Similarly, he is a director and he is not supposed to have, to 10 get involved in day-to-day operations.
7 11 Q. What about the Guardian, I think, for a period at least, has 12 been loss-making. Is that right? 13 A. I do not -- are you saying now or in the past? 14 Q. No, I am just asking, for periods -- I have no knowledge 15 because I do not have access to the accounts. 16 A. You see, (inaudible) businesses in Tanzania and there as an 17 investor you have to be prepared to make losses initially 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
until you can break even and make money, but it is making money. Q. Was it making money in 2010? A. I do not have those figures in my head. I have 50 or so companies, so I am not going to carry in my head the results of every company. Q. You see, it is quite important because if the Guardian makes a loss, it has to be financed by you. Is that not right?
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1 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. There is you, as the Chairman, and Mr. Nguma? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What is the division of responsibilities, then, between you 7
[Page 31]
MENGI-PRICE 2 A. It goes through my financial controller, the controller. 3 Q. Yes, but it is your money? 4 A. You know, I say I control, I delegate fully and I give all the
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MENGI-PRICE
2 Q. You see, there are only two directors of ITV, are there not?
and Mr. Nguma?
8 A. We are board members. 9 Q. That is it? 10 A. Exactly. 11 Q. Do you have any day-to-day involvement in ITV? 12 A. No. 13 Q. None at all? 14 A. ITV is run by (inaudible) management, who are appointed by the 15 16 18
board, but I would not go down the road and try to muddy the operations of ITV of ITV?
17 Q. Does Mr. Nguma have any day-to-day involvement in the running 19 A. No. 20 Q. None at all? 21 A. None that I know of. 22 Q. None that you know of? 23 A. None I know of. I think that question should be directed to 24
Mr. Nguma. I am not his keeper.
25 Q. Do you know or do you not?
powers to the people I have employed because I do not like operations, I get bored with operations of the companies, so I delegate it fully and there is a financial controller who takes care of the finances of the companies and I say I am not dealing with one company, I am dealing with almost 50 companies. Q. You see, you were reported in the press in 2010 -- 2010 was when there was a considerable problem with the staff at the Guardian. Is that not right? A. Not that I know of. Q. Not that you know of? A. No. Q. There was a time when many of the staff at the Guardian had to be sent on leave? A. You better ask the MD. Those are details I do not know. I do not get involved in operations. Q. It is hardly a detail if a substantial proportion or, indeed, all the staff of the Guardian had to be sent on leave. A. I say I do not deal with operations of the companies, I delegate. Q. You were reported in the newspapers at the time, that is in
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MENGI-PRICE 2010, as saying that the Guardian is persistently loss-making. That is right, is it not? A. That is misquoted. Q. That is a misquote? A. Yes. Q. Did the Guardian make a profit in 2011? A. I am not carrying figures in my head. Q. You do not know? A. Quite honestly, you want me to -- I have got more than 50 companies and I am not going to carry figures in my head. Q. You must know whether the Guardian made a profit or a loss last year? A. I cannot remember. Q. You cannot remember. Also 2010, can you remember? A. I have to refresh my mind. I do not want to tell you a lie. The truth is that I do not -- company accounts go to the Chief Financial Controller and he is the one who prepares the reports, but I have delegated fully. Q. Let us understand this: supposing that the Guardian makes a significant loss, that has to be funded from somewhere else in the group, does it not? A. You see, you may not understand, but I am saying I have delegated and that is what I mean. Let me tell you what I do with me companies, please, so you can understand. Personally,
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MENGI-PRICE business I get involved and thereafter I move on. I move on from one business to another, but the thinking of what be done counts for me, but the operations do not count for me. Q. What about if you have an idea for the Guardian or ITV? A. I am sorry? Q. What if you have a creative idea for the Guardian or ITV? A. I say I create a company, delegate to the person I trust most and move on. I do not go back to Guardian to look into operations. That is already, to me it is just the business is done, they run the business, but it is not me, I do not go back to the operations. It may sound unusual to you, but it does work for me. Q. Can I ask you about your press secretary, Mr. Mengi? Your press secretary has an office on the seventh floor of IPP's building? A. Yes. Q. Whereabouts is your press secretary's office? A. The other wing. Q. The other wing? A. I told you, the office is two wings, left and right. Q. Are you sure that your press secretary's office is not right next door to your office? A. If anybody says that, he is telling naked lies. It is not true.
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[Page 35]
MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. You must see your press secretary quite regularly? 3 A. No. 4 Q. How often?
1 5 A. I do not keep a record. 6 Q. I am not asking for a record, I am just asking you in general 7 terms, roughly how often do you see your press secretary? 8 A. I have no pattern. I cannot say every day, every week. I do 9 not see him for a week or two, or three. It is not a matter 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MENGI-PRICE I think I see myself as an entrepreneur. My main job is to create businesses, to create new ventures. Then I identify people who are able to run organisations and delegate fully. For me, I will say I am a lousy, ask me to run the company personally, pay salaries, do this and that, I do not do that. I just do not do that. Q. You are a chartered accountant of considerable experience? A. Yes, I am, but a bit different from (inaudible) in that I work through other people. I do not go to the kitchen to do things. Q. So your evidence to my Lord is that if the Guardian makes a substantial loss, that that is simply dealt with by your financial controller? A. If it was official loss, certainly they will alert me possibly if it is a huge loss, but I do not think there has been such a big loss to require to alert me. Q. Do you know whether there has been or not? A. I have not been alerted and, therefore, there has not been a big loss. Q. What is your role within the businesses, Mr. Mengi? What do you actually do? A. You know, my role in the business is not corporations at all. I do not go to the kitchen to cook. My role is to come up with the ideas, develop, during the first stages of the
of saying everyone in meeting, every day meeting. It is not like that. I see him when I need him. Q. Now I want to ask you a little about your knowledge of the Silverdale Farm dispute. That really started coming to a head in the early part of 2005 and I think you have already told my Lord that in the middle of 2005 it was the subject of discussion in the business community in Moshi. A. Yes. Q. And that came to your attention? A. I say in here that I do not go to Moshi regularly but I had to be in Moshi on business and I heard some rumour that there was some, I did not even know what it was but I was told there was a problem with Silverdale. Q. Then in July 2005, I think it was, you told my Lord that Dr. Kimaro had contacted you about it? A. Yes.
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. Dr. Kimaro is in the President of Tanzania's office, is that 3 right?

1 4 A. He was. 5 Q. At that time? 6 A. Ys. 7 Q. This was a serious matter if somebody from the President's 8 office is contacting you about this dispute? 9 A. I think if being from the President I would have been told 10 that this come from the President, but I saw it had come from
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MENGI-PRICE brothers but we keep at a distance with regards to business. I left him to his businesses and my businesses, and I do not interfere because every time I advise him he said, "Leave me alone. I know what I am doing." it out amicably with Mr. Middleton?
6 Q. What did he say on this occasion when you advised him to sort 8 A. I beg your pardon? 9 Q. You have told my Lord that on this occasion you suggested to 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 20 21 22
Benjamin that he should sort out and settle his disputes amicably with Mr. Middleton. time that my brother told me that he was willing to sit down was after I met Middleton and Pocock and I said, I will tell the Commissioner this and that has happened, and for the first time he agreed with me and said, "I will meet with Middleton but under these conditions." Before then he would not allow me even to mention businesses. not have much memory of it and if you do not please say, but as I understand it you said, "Why don't you settle it," and he was not receptive to that, is that a fair way of putting it?
Kimaro, a person I had known, I had been to school with. 12 Q. Did you think it was a serious matter if Dr. Kimaro is 13 contacting you about this?
11 14 A. When friends call me I do not just say, "Well, it must be very 15 serious." No, I took it just like any other issue because I 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
12 A. The only time during this dispute with Silverdale, the only
did not know what was involved. Q. You spoke to your brother, Benjamin, about it? A. Yes, I asked him because I knew Benjamin and the Middletons were friends and I said, "Please go back and talk about it. You have been friends. You don't need fights." That is all I was telling my brother. As I said, I could not force my brother because we do not talk about our businesses. He has his own ideas, his own businesses. For me it is just a matter of trying to see what I could do. I asked him, "Can you just go back to Middletons and let them talk over this." I knew
19 Q. Right. So that this conversation that I am on now, you may
23 A. Not even settle, I said talk. 24 Q. Okay. 25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Sorry, counsel asked you what was his reply.
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[Page 39]
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MENGI-PRICE they were friends, and as friends sort out the matter amicably. Q. What did he tell you, as far as you remember, about the nature of the dispute? A. Who? Q. Your brother, Benjamin? A. Well, you know what, honestly, he did not want to listen because I do not know the details of it, even right now, you ask me what happened and I cannot tell you. The only thing I know now is what I read in the witness statements. Q. So Dr. Kimaro from the President's office contacts you because somebody has drawn it to his attention, Mr. Middleton or Mr. Pocock, is that right? A. I do not know. Q. You do not know. You speak to your brother about it. You do not ask him what the dispute is about, is that right? A. I have an unusual arrangement with my brother, and whatever I ask him, he says I am interfering with his businesses, and I keep off. Q. I am sorry to interrupt. You have not finished. Please finish. A. So, there is a problem in terms of relations with the business and whatever I tell him he hits back, he says I am interfering with is businesses, I should mind my own businesses. We are
MENGI-PRICE A. My Lord, whenever I talk to him about his businesses he goes wild, he does not want to listen to me, he tell me, "Keep your businesses. I keep my businesses." The only time he appeared to be read to talk is after the meeting with the High Commissioner. I said that I had been to the High Commissioner, at my house, and what had transpired. For the first time he said, "Yes, I am willing but under these conditions." Before then, it was just, fight, fight, fight, and he does not want me to get involved in his businesses. Q. I will move on. In November 2005, you read an article in Nipashe about this dispute, this is the first article that had appeared in your newspapers about the dispute between your brother and Mr. Middleton. Do you remember that? A. Yes, I read, I think (inaudible) (?)Ynanki. Q. Ynanki. A. Yes. Q. Did you read it in the Guardian? A. No. Q. No? A. No. Q. Also, it appeared in the Guardian. A. No, I did not read it in the Guardian. Q. Can you remember that, Mr. Mengi? A. It is too late now to think of something that I know I did not
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MENGI-PRICE see. Q. You know you did not see it? A. I cannot remember it at all. Q. You cannot remember? A. No, I cannot remember. Q. Do you usually read Nipashe? A. Yes, sometimes I do not read papers for the whole week because I do not need to read the papers. Sometimes, if something is so important and brought to my attention by my press secretary, but for this, no, I did not have anything to bring to my attention. But in the day, sometimes I stay for a week or two without reading papers, the Guardian or Nipashe. Q. You must be interested to see what your newspapers are writing about? A. And then do what? Whatever they write, they have to write the truth. I would not pick up an article and say, "Why have you written this?" I do not. That is tampering with the editorial independence. Q. This is an important part of your business, is it not, Mr. Mengi? A. It is. I work through people. I delegate. I delegate. I delegate in total. It is not (inaudible) ---Q. You do not even bother to read what is in your newspapers. A. Do you want me to tell you a lie?
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MENGI-PRICE every conversation I had with Ben Mengi. and you must tell my Lord what you remember. But you remember speaking to Benjamin after seeing those articles?
3 Q. No, I understand, Mr. Mengi. This is quite a long time ago
6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Yes. Tell my Lord what your recollection of that conversation 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 21 22
is? true. My brother, my Lord, does not allow me or does not want me to talk about his businesses. Every time I speak about the businesses, always he goes wild. I am not the first person to have a sibling who does not see your point of view. He does not see my point of view when it comes to businesses, not at all. The only time he showed sign of reconciliation is after the meeting with the High Commissioner, when I said, "I met the High Commissioner and this transpired." And he said, for the first time he said, "Yes, I am willing to talk but under these conditions." your brother after seeing these articles in Nipashe and Ynanci. Do you remember what you said?
9 A. My Lord, you have to witness what I said to see that it is
20 Q. I just want to know whether you recall at all what you said to
23 A. Not at all. 24 Q. Not at all? 25 A. I cannot remember now, no, no.
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. I would much rather you did not, Mr. Mengi. 3 A. Then the truth is that I do not. I do not. In the same way 4 is I do not go to the (inaudible) every day to check out their
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[Page 43]
MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. No. Do you remember what your brother's response was at all? 3 A. I am saying that has been my life with my brother. He does 4 not want me to temper or interfere with his businesses and
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correction on this and that. The newspaper is important to me but sometimes it is two, or six weeks, six months, seven months, without going there. Q. Now, you just told my Lord that you read the articles in November about the dispute in Nipashe and Ynanci. A. Yes. Q. I will take you to the Nipashe article in a moment, Mr. Mengi, but I want to ask you this before we look at it. After seeing it you spoke to your brother again. A. I cannot remember. Q. Well, you say in your witness statement, and perhaps I had better take you to it -- if you look at file 2 -- and your witness statement is at the first tab there. If you go to paragraph 106, do you have paragraph 106? A. 106, yes. Q. What you say there: "On 22nd November or thereabouts I read articles in Nipashe ....(reads to the words).... I was not involved in the coverage. 107. After seeing these articles I spoke to Benjamin ....(reads to the words).... seek an amicable solution to the dispute." Is that right? A. My Lord, that is right. He says because I cannot remember
that is all. The only time he does talk was after the meeting with the High Commissioner. Q. Let's just look now, if we may, at the article that appeared in Nipashe that you read. You will find it, if you take file 3. It may be easier for you if you put file 2 away. It is in file 3, at the first tab on page 2. Do you have it, Nipashe, 22nd November 2005. A. Yes. Q. Let's look through it together. The headline, "Fake cheque sends British investor to court. A British investor at Silverdale Farm ....(reads to the words).... that doing so was contrary to law. Both accused were out on bail and the case will be mentioned again on December 15." You will notice there is no report that the defendants denied the charges. Do you see that? A. (No audible reply) Q. You must have been concerned when you read that article, Mr. Mengi? A. You know, I read the article. The only thing I can say, interpreting, I have no power nor responsibility to change the content or even question the content of these articles.
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MENGI-PRICE Q. No, I understand. But you must have been concerned for your brother apart from anything else? A. No. I take the same stand as he does. He says, "It is my business." Q. What it says is that Mr. Middleton has tried to palm off a fake cheque on him; that is a serious matter, is it not? A. What could I have done? I said whenever I ask him about businesses we have a fight. Q. There is no reason to have a fight about this. He appears to be the victim of a serious criminal offence. A. But what could I do? I am not the police. I do not have authority to do anything. Q. What about the allegation, the charge against Mr. Middleton and Mr. Ngoja that they had forged a contract? A. You are talking to Reginald Abraham Mengi. You are not talking to Benjamin Abraham Mengi. I do not know these things. I can have human sympathy but there is nothing I could do. It is not about me, it is about my young brother. Q. Why did you ring your brother having read this article? A. All the time I was saying, "Talk to your former friend." That is all. There is nothing I could have done. What could I have done, force him? Q. Why did you talk to him? You must have been concerned about it.
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MENGI-PRICE the way he wants to do them. Q. But you can understand what is written in your newspaper? A. I can understand. What would I do? Q. Did you understand that what was being said, in effect, was that Mr. Middleton and Mr. Ngoja had stolen the farm although it did not belong to them. A. You know, I read it, I understand it, then what will I do? What will I do? Do I arrest Benjamin? Do I lock him up? Do you tell him, "This is nonsense." What can I do? Q. What you did was to ring him and suggest an amicable settlement/solution. A. They are friends. I was advising him. What else would I have done? You put yourself in my position. You have your brother who does not see your point of view in business and every time you talk to him he screams at you. What could I have done? Q. Mr. Mengi. You are a highly intelligent man. A. Thank you. Q. You are an extremely experienced businessman. A. Thank you. Q. You can understand that if a man has been charged on your brother's complaint with forging the contract by which he acquired the farm, it is pointless to suggest an amicable solution. A. What else could I have done? The only thing I can say to my
[Page 45]
MENGI-PRICE 2 A. I have been very consistent. Every time I tell him, "Talk to 3 Mr. Middleton, you are real good friends, sort it out," but
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I am not going to say, "Why did this happen?" I have no power.
6 Q. You say in your witness statement that you urged him to seek 7 an amicable solution to the dispute. 8 A. All the time I did that, all the time. 9 Q. Now you tell my Lord what amicable solution you thought could 10 be found to this dispute. 11 A. I am not in his head. I only advise him, "Do something about 12 your friend." They were good friends. I want him to go back
to their friendship. 14 Q. Just come back and look and see what it says in your 15 newspaper, Mr. Mengi. In the first paragraph, just look at
13 16
it, if you would, page 2. Do you have it?
17 A. Yes. 18 Q. At the end of the first paragraph: "The accused are also 19 charged with conspiring to forge a contract over the farm
while being fully aware that it did not belong to them." 21 A. And so what? 22 Q. This is not a dispute, is it, Mr. Mengi? 23 A. I have nothing to do with this, my brother's deeds. I have
20 24 25
nothing to do with content. I am not an editor. I am not a journalist. I am not my brother's keeper. He can do things
MENGI-PRICE brother, "Sit down. You have been friends. You go to each other's house. Meet together. Sit down and talk." What more could I have done? I could not give him an order. Q. You suggest to my Lord what sort of amicable solution might have been possible. A. Amicable, I meant something to discussion and come back to where they used to be, good friends. Nothing more than that. Q. Did you suggest to your brother when you spoke to him, did you say to him, "Look, this seems bad. It seems that the contract was forged." A. You know, I really -- my Lord, I do not understand where it is getting to because I say, I have a fight with my brother every time I speak to him about his businesses. The only thing I can do as a brother is say, "Talk to your friend. Talk with your friend. Sort it out." There is no way I could say, "Yes, do this, do that, do that," because then we end up fighting. Q. You see, if you look now at page 3, that is the report, a very similar report, that appeared in the Guardian on the same day. A. Yes. Q. But you say that you did not see that report? A. I did not read this one. Q. Are you sure? A. I said I did not -- I am not going to be forced to tell lies
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MENGI-PRICE but I am here to tell the truth. The truth is that I never read this article. Q. You remember that? A. I say I cannot remember. Q. If you go to page 5, which is the Guardian on 8th December, it says: "Briton facing court charges not listed as investor." Do you remember this article? A. Yes. Q. Can we just look at it together, then? A. Yes. Q. It comes from a Guardian reporter in Moshi, so this looks like a staff reporter rather than the agency reporter; would that be right? A. Could be. Q. The Tanzania Investment Centre said it does not recognise as an investor David Stewart, a British national, currently facing charges of issuing a fake cheque and forgery. You see that the charges there are repeated. ".....TIC [that is the Tanzania Investment Centre in Moshi] said Stewart was not among investors approved in accordance with the Investment Acts. He said Stewart lastly visited TIC Moshi branch with the aim of registering as an investor and was advised to follow certain procedures in order to be registered." Do you see that?
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MENGI-PRICE once a witness has started giving evidence he cannot talk to anyone about the case, including with lawyers, in fact in particular his lawyers, until his evidence is entirely concluded. A. Thank you, my Lord. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Thank you. (Short adjournment) MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, Mr. Price. MR. PRICE: Now, Mr. Mengi, I just want to ask you about the genesis of the meeting with Mr. Pocock and understand how that meeting came up. For his Lordship's note, you deal with this in paragraph 108 of your witness statement and what you say, and if you want to refer to it by all means do, in your witness statement is that you know the High commissioner pretty well and that in one of your meetings the subject of the Silverdale dispute came up. Is that right, is that your recollection? A. Yes, I cannot tell you the details but, it is. Q. Did Mr. Pocock arrange it, he must have done? A. Yes, he did. Q. You said that you agreed with Mr. Pocock that you should intervene as a neutral mediator? A. Yes. Q. Was that a serious suggestion?
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[Page 51]
MENGI-PRICE 2 A. I am sorry? 3 Q. Was that a serious suggestion? 4 A. In a matter like this, yes, it was.
1 5 Q. It was? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. You told my Lord that your attempts to intervene with your
MENGI-PRICE A. Yes. Q. "He went away and promised he would return but we have not seen him since, the TIC official said." One sees that all, according this report, all that Mr. Middleton has to do to get the contract registered or the land registered is to follow the procedures and go back. Yes? A. (No audible reply) Q. "He went away and promised he would return but we have not seen him since ....(reads to the words).... forge a lease agreement for the acquisition of a farm." Did you see that article at the time?
brother usually ended in disaster. 9 A. My Lord, I said every time I raise the issue with my brother, 10 he became wild except, except when I told him that I had met
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13 A. Can I say one thing, though? 14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Mengi, it really would be helpful if you 15 16
would answer counsel's questions otherwise you will find you are in the witness box more or less for ever.
17 A. Okay. 18 Q. Counsel was asking did you see the article. 19 A. My Lord, I cannot remember all the articles I saw. It is a 20
long time. I cannot say yes or no.
21 MR. PRICE: You cannot remember? 22 A. I cannot remember. 23 Q. Very good. 25
24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Price, if we are moving on from there, shall 24
we take a short break until 12 noon? Mr. Mengi, the rule is
with the High Commissioner and he said, "Yes, we could meet but under these conditions." That is the only time. Q. Okay, but at the moment I am talking about before the meeting with Mr. Pocock had taken place. Mr. Pocock raises the subject of the Silverdale dispute and you agreed that you would intervene as a neutral mediator. A. We discussed it and I said, if necessary, I would act as mediator and that I would be able to bring them together. Q. Did you tell -- sorry, I am interrupting. A. Hoping that because I had not asked my brother, hoped my brother would agree. Q. Did you tell Mr. Pocock that any previous attempts to intervene had resulted in your brother going wild? A. I did not. Q. You did not?
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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. But I told him of my business relationship with my brother. 3 Q. You were able to put the High Commissioner right about the 4 Silverdale dispute, were you not, Mr. Mengi?
1 5 A. I am sorry? 6 Q. When Mr. Pocock raised the question of the Silverdale dispute 7 you were able to put him right, were you not? 8 A. Put right, I am sorry, my Lord? 9 Q. Shall I explain? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. You were able to tell them that it was a perfectly simple 12 matter, and that what had happened was that Mr. Middleton had 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 2 3 5 6
MENGI-PRICE what would have happened between them, with a mate. I cannot say they will go this way or that way. They were friends. home, just the three of you present, Mr. Middleton, Mr. Pocock, and you.
4 Q. Now, moving forward to the meeting which took place at your
7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And the meeting lasted about two hours, I think you told my 9
Lord.
10 A. I cannot tell the exact ---11 Q. No, I understand. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. About two hours, a simple number. You deal with this in 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
forged a contract for the purpose of taking over the farm in the full knowledge that in doing so was contrary to law. A. Why should I say that? Q. Because you had read it in your own newspaper, Mr. Mengi. A. It was not for me to discuss what was happening at Silverdale. I said my proposal was to see whether I could bring them together. As I say, I had no details of what was happening. Q. I am just trying to bring a little commonsense to bears in this, Mr. Mengi. You have read in your newspaper that the problem over Silverdale involves a serious criminal offence of Mr. Middleton in effect stealing the farm with absolutely no right at all. You understood that, did you not? A. My Lord, I did not know enough about the side of Benjamin
paragraph 111 of your witness statement and if I could just ask you to leave that file open because you will need it later, but just take out file 2 and if you can find room for two files open it up, then you will see what you say in your witness statement about it. It is paragraph 111, page 45. You say, at paragraph 111, that you had a friendly dialogue, that is A.
21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And C, if you go down to C at the bottom of the page, 23 24 25
"Mr. Middleton complained that he was being harassed by Benjamin Mengi who was framing him with trumped up cases and generally making his life miserable." Then at D, "He
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MENGI-PRICE Mengi and the side of Mr. Middleton. I was not sufficiently informed of what was the reality. I did not even know who was right and who was wrong. Q. Did you believe what you read in the newspaper? A. I did not have an opinion because I was not sure. I did not know the details of what was happening between these two people. Q. But it was quite clear that these charges would have been brought by your brother. It was him who complained that there was a fake cheque and a forged agreement, was it not? A. I am not my brother's keeper. His actions are his actions. Q. So you told Mr. Pocock, agreed with him that you should intervene as a neutral mediator? A. In the first place, I said so because I thought Ben maybe would be able to meet his old friend and talk and my chairmanship as a mediator. I was just trying to be kind to these people. Q. There is only so far I can pursue this, Mr. Mengi, but the question that has to be asked, talk about what? What was Benjamin supposed to say to Mr. Middleton, "Look, you have forged the lease to the farm, give it back." Is that it? A. Hypothetical. I did not say that. I did not mean that. Q. In reality, what? A. In reality, I do not know what will happen. I cannot think of
MENGI-PRICE complained about the court case that Benjamin Mengi had instituted against him," and you agreed to raise that with Benjamin Mengi as part of your efforts to reconcile them. And he complained about the fact that the authorities were refusing to register the lease assignment. You must have raised with Mr. Middleton the fact that your brother was bringing charges against him of forging the contract. did that. I did not have enough knowledge of this side of it. read in your newspaper. the content of my newspapers. Newspapers are under editors. conversation would have gone would be that Mr. Middleton would explain, "Look, I am being harassed by your brother who is framing me with trumped cases," and you would have said, "Oh, that is the criminal cases that I have been reading about. Those are trumped up, are they?" happened. expressed your hope that they would be able to resolve their dispute amicably and return to being friends.
9 A. No, I did not say anything, my brother did this contract, or 11 Q. Your only knowledge of it, essentially, came from what you had 13 A. My newspapers, but I am not an editor, I am not concerned with 15 Q. In the real world, in the real world, Mr. Mengi, how this
21 A. I was not in a position to make judgement of what has 23 Q. And you at paragraph 111(A) after the friendly dialogue, you
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MENGI-PRICE A. Yes. 3 Q. Does that make any sense, Mr. Mengi? 4 A. I presume, my Lord, when two former friends fall out and they 5 talk, there is always a chance they can go back to what they 6 used to be, friends. 7 Q. Look, the only way in which this dispute could be resolved, 8 there were only two ways for it, one, Mr. Benjamin Mengi would 9 have to drop the trumped up charges and the other would be 10 that Mr. Middleton would have to give the farm back, is that 11 not right? 12 A. No, that is the idea. I did not go that way. 13 Q. Well, what is the alternative? 14 A. The way I put it. I did agree to be a mediator. A mediator 15 was to bring them together and talk. I could not form an 16 opinion as to who was wrong or was right. 17 Q. But you just tell my Lord what you thought could be sensibly 18 talked about in this dispute? 19 A. My Lord, my responsibility was to get them together and talk. 20 They were good friends before. They visited each other's 21 house. So I was bringing them together to talk and find a 22 solution to their problem. That was the problem. 23 Q. But the problem is that Mr. Middleton says he is being 24 harassed with trumped up criminal charges. 25 A. Yes.
1 2
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MENGI-PRICE what Middleton would have to say additionally after Ben has given his point of view. Q. You understood what Mr. Middleton was saying about it, that these were trumped up charges. A. My Lord, I had listened to Mr. Middleton and I wanted the chance for me also to listen to Ben Mengi and then discuss those issues because there is no way I could have said, "Well, Middleton is right," because I did not know. I wanted to bring them together to talk. kill him?
11 Q. Did Mr. Middleton tell you that Benjamin had threatened to 13 A. Well, he raised the point. 14 Q. I am sorry? 15 A. Middleton did raise -- at that meeting? 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. No, about being harassed and so forth could mean many things. 18 MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I am sorry. I think the time has come for 19 20 21 22 23 25
me to intervene. My learned friend says he is taking his questions from what he calls the real world. I am searching in vain for any indication in Mr. Middleton's witness statement that any of this, let alone Mr. Pocock's, that any of this material was discussed at this meeting. not. Carry on, Mr. Price.
24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: The witness is in a position to deny it, is he
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. And Mr. Benjamin Mengi is saying, "You've stolen my farm by 3 forging the lease."
1 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. How is that to be amicably resolved so that they can get back 6 to being friends? 7 A. I wish I knew. That is why I said they should meet and talk 8 about the issue, and help them. I was going to have two 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1
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MENGI-PRICE 2 MR. PRICE: My question was, did Mr. Middleton tell you that 3 Benjamin had threatened to kill him?
4 A. Not in that meeting. 5 Q. Did he say that he had been physically intimidated by 6 Benjamin? 7 A. He said he was being harassed and harassed could mean 8 anything. 9 Q. Perhaps I can just ask you to look at what Mr. Pocock said the 10 following day. If you take file 1.2, which is the one that 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
friends who were very close and now they are falling out. I could not propose a solution that would have come out of the mediation discussion. Q. I have to suggest to you, Mr. Mengi, that your evidence about this simply does not make any sense. A. What I am saying? Q. Yes. A. To me it makes a little sense because it is (inaudible) ---Q. I will just give you one last opportunity to explain how you in your role as neutral mediator, how you are going to set about bringing these two people together given your understanding of what the dispute between them was. A. I did not know exactly the nature of the dispute, not at all, but that would have come out of discussion, Middleton and Benjamin Mengi, and my chairmanship to allow them to talk. I could not propose a solution because I did not know what Benjamin would have said on the issue raised by Middleton,
you have on the top there, to your right-hand side. If you go to the back of it, at tab D, "Stewart set out his concerns, the trumped up legal case against him" -- I am sorry, my Lord, it is page 196. Do you have page 196, Mr. Mengi? A. Yes. Q. Second paragraph, "Stewart set out his concerns, the trumped up legal case against him, the physical and other intimidation directed towards himself, his wife, Sarah, and his staff and associates." Does that accord with your recollection? A. Yes. Q. So he did speak of physical intimidation? A. But he did not talk about being killed, about being killed (inaudible) ---Q. Did you believe Mr. Middleton? A. I wanted to make judgement after hearing two sides.
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MENGI-PRICE So you wanted to wait and hear what Benjamin had to say? Exactly. I wanted mediation so they could sit down and talk. What is your view of Mr. Middleton now? Now or then? Now. In relation to what? Whether he is truthful, whether he is a good sort of person. I cannot pass judgement until and unless I hear from two sides because I do not want to believe one side before listening to the other side. It is not for me to judge before this hearing today. Q. You told Miss Corner, who is the present British High Commissioner in Tanzania, in March of this year, that you thought Mr. Middleton was "a very good man"? A. Yes, I did. Q. Is that your view of Mr. Middleton? A. As far as I am concerned, in my view, if he is not the author of his witness statement, I will say still yes; but if he is the author, I think that I made a mistake. Q. I am sorry. If he is the author of what witness statement? A. Of his witness statement. Q. Of his witness statement? A. Yes. Q. But in March of this year, you thought he was a very good man? Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
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MENGI-PRICE Q. That would be understandable if the lease assignment was forged? A. I don't know whether it was forged or not forged. Q. Did you support Mr. Middleton's wish to register his property legally? A. Certainly, certainly. But I said I will talk to Ben, because I didn't know much about the case. I said I will speak to Ben, so that they can come together, because I could not form an opinion just listening to one side of the story. I want to listen to the other side also. Q. Well, the question I asked you was: did you support Stuart's wish to register his property legally? A. I said I would look into that, because I couldn't -- supposing there are conditions of the lease which had not been fulfilled? I couldn't say, well, I couldn't say (inaudible). I could not give a commitment that I will make sure that the lease is registered. Q. Well, your first answer to my question, when I asked it, was: "Certainly, certainly". A. If there was enough evidence that this should be listed or should be registered, certainly. But I don't know what is behind the lease conditions. To register a lease, there are conditions which must be fulfilled. I didn't know whether they would fulfil all the conditions.
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MENGI-PRICE A. I had not read the witness statement back in March. 3 Q. But you knew very well what he said about the meeting with 4 Mr. Pocock, did you not? 5 A. Well, the meeting isn't recorded, and I heard him say -- at 6 that time I don't think I had an opinion that he was a bad 7 person. I still believed he was a very good man, until I read 8 what he say in his witness statement, and I said, "My 9 goodness, I was wrong." 10 Q. Looking back at your witness statement, paragraph 111, at E -11 sorry, I think you are looking in the wrong bundle, if I may, 12 Mr. Mengi. Are you looking at file 2? I am sorry, I have 13 muddled you up by giving you too many bundles. Put bundle 1.2 14 away. File 2, tab 1. 15 A. Paragraph? 16 Q. Paragraph 111, page 46. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. This is the paragraph we were looking at before. At E, you 19 say that Mr. Middleton complained about the fact that the 20 authorities were refusing to register the lease assignment in 21 favour of Silverdale. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Well, that would be understandable if the lease assignment was 24 forged, would it not? 25 A. I am sorry?
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. Well, the reason why you said "Certainly, certainly" in answer 3 to my question was that Mr. Pocock in his letter says: "You
1
supported Stuart's wish legally to register his property"? 5 A. Yes, legally, legally. I say to get a lease registered, there 6 are certain conditions which have to be fulfilled, and I was
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not in a position to know whether they have been fulfilled or not. But certainly, I would support him. Q. One of the other things that Mr. Middleton complained about, if you go back one page to B: "Mr. Middleton complained that the coverage of the dispute by the Guardian and Nipashe was defamatory and asked me to intervene." Now, the article that you had seen was indeed seriously defamatory, was it not? A. For me, I don't know, I don't know how the item, the article, was (inaudible) by editors, and I cannot comment until I investigate the nature of what happened. But to do that, I would need to tamper with editorial independence. Q. You say that you said -- going back, this is at B -- "Without confirming or denying that the coverage was defamatory, I told him that I would not be able to intervene and put a stop to the coverage." Is that right? A. Yes. Q. Are you sure about that? A. Yes. Q. You see, if you had said that, Mr. Pocock and Mr. Middleton
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MENGI-PRICE would have said, "Well, what on earth are you talking about? These are your newspapers. What do you mean, you cannot intervene"? A. My Lord, I have always kept myself away from interference of the editorial independence, and there is no way I could tell my editors or the journalists, "Go write this story or that story." I never do that. Q. Did you explain that to the British High Commissioner? A. The British High Commissioner is a very intelligent person who knows that it is not a professional role to tamper with editorial independence. He is no fool. Q. I suggest to you that if you had said that you would not be able to intervene and stop the coverage, that Mr. Middleton and Mr. Pocock both would have said, "Well, what do you mean? Why can you not intervene to see that your newspapers observe proper editorial standards"? A. My Lord, if you go to the witness statement, you will find that at the very beginning that is what I said in the meeting, and he records that, that I said I would not be able to intervene. Q. Did you explain why not? A. You explain to people you think don't understand. But I believe the High Commissioner understood, because it is all over the world, the proprietors, owners, are not supposed to
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MENGI-PRICE Q. Particularly where the High Commissioner and a British citizen who has invested a lot of money of land in Moshi are complaining about coverage concerning your brother. That is the time when you should intervene, is it not? A. My Lord, I don't look at the affairs of anybody, whether it be my brother or not my brother. But the rule is that: don't tamper with editorial independence, don't deal with the content. That is how I ran my business. Today, you can tell me I should not do that, I should do differently. But I do it in my belief that that is the professional way to run newspapers or media. Q. What I suggest is that where there are grounds for concern that proper journalistic ethics and media standards are not being observed, it is your duty and your function to intervene? A. My Lord, we have something called editorial independence, and I think it appropriate, who will try to tamper with that, then he is going to gain sufficient ethics or other media policies, and that is leave editors alone. Q. But editorial independence is independent from outside interference, not from the man who owns the newspaper, ensuring that proper journalistic standards are complied with? A. You may want to re-write the rules of the profession, but the ones I know is that you are the owner, keep away from the
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MENGI-PRICE tamper with editorial independence. Q. That simply is not right, is it, Mr. Mengi? It is the function of the proprietor of a newspaper to set the standards and the values and to see that they are observed and enforced; is that not right? A. I say, just like my President appoints the judges, he does not tamper with the judges. My Lord, if I use the wrong example, but with permission, my Lord, the way I see the position of judges back home is the President appoints the judges, but he does not tell judges what to do. He cannot tamper with the judges. Q. Well, this is very unusual. Have you seen any of the obituaries that were published last month of one of the best known newspaper proprietors, perhaps, in the world, the proprietor of the New York Times, Mr. Salzberger? Did you read any of them? A. No. I am sorry. Q. His view was, he said: "I don't want to edit the paper, plain and simple. I am there to adjudicate disputes and to set standards and values." That is a proprietor's function, is it not? A. Well, your view, his view. But for me, keep away from editorial independence, because, to me, I think it is (inaudible) to tamper with editorial independence.
MENGI-PRICE content.
3 Q. At all events, coming back to the meeting with Mr. Pocock now, 4 your evidence to my Lord is that you said that you would not 5 6 7
be able to intervene with your newspapers and that Mr. Pocock understood that without the necessity to ask about it. Is
that right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Let us see what Mr. Pocock says about it. If you go in file 2 10 to his witness statement, which is at tab 15 -- do you have file 2 there? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Tab 15. Do you have tab 15? 14 A. Yes, I have.
11 15 Q. Paragraph 8: "Regarding the press coverage of Mr. Middleton, 16 I cannot now remember exactly what Mr. Middleton or I said, 17 18 19
but I am fairly certain the issue was raised that the coverage had been unfair and untrue." Now, thus far, you and Mr. Pocock are in agreement; is that right?
20 A. I am sorry? 21 Q. "I am fairly certain that the issue was raised that the 22 coverage had been unfair and untrue." You agree with
Mr. Pocock? 24 A. Yes, yes. 25 Q. "I do recall Mr. Reginald Mengi saying that he would look into
23
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MENGI-PRICE the coverage." A. I can't see ---Q. Are you looking at paragraph 8? A. Okay. Q. Do you see he says there: "I do recall Mr. Reginald Mengi saying he would look into the coverage"? A. My Lord, it is a long time ago. I don't remember saying that. In any case, all my life, all the time, there is one thing I need to say, I will never be able to tamper with the content; and as I say, my Lord, this is what also is in Mr. Middleton's statement, that immediately he mentioned newspapers, I told him that I cannot tamper with editorial. he does recall you saying that. also, and he was there. question? He is asking you: are you saying that this evidence from Dr. Pocock is right or wrong, or you cannot remember?
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14 Q. Well, Mr. Pocock's recollection is quite different. He says 16 A. My Lord, as I say, Middleton's statement records what happened 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Mengi, could you please answer counsel's
22 THE WITNESS: I cannot remember, my Lord. I am sorry, my Lord. 23 MR. PRICE: You see, the common sense of it is that that is 24 25
exactly what you would have said. The question is raised about highly defamatory and damaging coverage in your
MENGI-PRICE Have you got file 1.2 there? You have put it back, I think. If you just go to tab D of that file, page 205, you personally gave an undertaking that they would cease, he says. Have you got page 205? A. Yes. Q. This is the letter that Mr. Middleton wrote to you in April, which is about four months after the meeting: "You will remember that it was a meeting, called at your request, with Andrew Pocock. You were placed on notice of the libellous articles being placed in newspapers owned by IPP Media Group. You personally gave an undertaking that they would cease." A. My Lord, that is why I referred this letter to the Chief Corporate Counsel and underlined these words, and also told him that I did not give the undertaking, the outlined undertaking. I did not. That is not true. Q. Mr. Middleton is not a fool; you will accept that? A. I have not insinuated that. Q. No, of course you have not. But he would hardly write to you, "You will remember that at our meeting you personally gave an undertaking", if he did not believe that that was true? A. Which meeting -- because on my recollection of the meeting, I didn't say that at all. I have never, never said I will look into content, because I have no power to do that in order for me to do that.
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MENGI-PRICE newspapers. You would have said, "Well, I will look into it." Is that not right? A. I wouldn't say that, my Lord, because I know I don't tamper with editorial content. Q. But there is no reason why you should not look into it, is there? A. Yes, my Lord. It is a problem, because that will mean tampering with the content. Q. Well, you appear to be accepting that it is quite possible that you did say to Mr. Pocock -- "I do recall Reginald Mengi saying that he would look into the coverage" (sic)? A. My Lord, I can't remember. Q. You cannot remember. Mr. Middleton says that you said not only that you would look into the coverage, but that you would put a stop to defamatory stories in your papers? A. I didn't say that, my Lord. Q. Are you sure? A. Yes, I am sure. Q. Are you prepared to accept that that is Mr. Middleton's honest recollection of what was said at the meeting? A. Whether it is his recollection or not, I do not remember. I have never said anything about that I would tamper with the editorial independence. Q. You see, Mr. Middleton wrote to you about this on 19th April.
MENGI-PRICE Q. It might have made sense for you to write back to Mr. Middleton and say, "Well, actually, I did not give such an undertaking"? A. My Lord, this was a Guardian issue. I am not the Chairman of the Guardian, I am not the editor, I am not even a director. I referred to my Corporate Counsel saying that this is a Guardian Limited matter. Q. Mr. Middleton telephoned Dr. Pocock to ask him if he remembered your having given that undertaking; Dr. Pocock says that in his witness statement. Mr. Middleton would not have done that if he had not believed that it actually happened, would he? A. Presumably not, but I don't know. Q. Are you prepared to accept that Mr. Middleton is being perfectly honest when he says that that is his recollection of the meeting? A. But it is not. Q. That is not the question. Are you prepared to accept that Mr. Middleton is being quite honest when he says that that is his recollection of the meeting? A. No. Q. You are not? A. No. Q. You think he is making it up?
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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. Whatever you want to say. 3 Q. Well, you say. It is your evidence, Mr. Mengi. 4 A. I say I am not prepared to say, to agree that what he has
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written here is a recording of the true happening. Q. The question is -- I will put it to you again -- are you prepared to accept that Mr. Middleton is being quite honest when he says that that is his recollection of the meeting? A. No. Q. So, you are saying that he is making it up and that it is a lie; is that it? A. I am saying it is not true. Q. Mr. Middleton says that when you and he were having a discussion as you were leaving -- and you accept that you did have a discussion as you were leaving, do you not? A. My Lord, just like other people coming to my house, when they leave my house I shake hands with them and they leave. But I can't remember if he made any promise. Q. He says that you said that you would sort out the court cases and cover Mr. Middleton's legal costs? A. No, not true. Q. It is just the sort of generous gesture that you regularly make, is it not, Mr. Mengi? A. How could I just make -- I didn't even know how much was involved, what the case was all about. I didn't have any
MENGI-PRICE have to ask you about this, but I must do, and I shall do it shortly -- during that meeting, you were distracted and emotional? A. Yes. Q. What I suggest to you is that, in your distressed state, particularly in a meeting with the High Commissioner, a man for whom you had high respect, I think? A. Yes. Q. -- what you were anxious to do was to smooth things over, to pour oil on troubled waters and to be cooperative; and I suggest that you did say exactly what Mr. Middleton remembers you saying, that you would put a stop to defamatory stories in your newspapers and that you would cover Mr. Middleton's legal costs of his dispute with your brother? A. My Lord, that is not true. Q. Well, are you sure that you remember that accurately? A. Very sure, my Lord. Q. Could I just ask you to look -- I do not know if you still have 1.2 open in front of you. Do you? You do. Could I ask you just to go back from the page we were looking at? A. Which file number, please? Q. Page 203. A. Of my witness statement? Q. I am so sorry. You are in file 1.2, I hope. If you go right
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MENGI-PRICE details. Do I blindly just say, "Yes, I am going to do this and that"? Q. In your terms, it is peanuts, is it not? A. It is not a question of how much. The question is the principle behind saying I will do this or do that, even if it means a pound or two. It is not a question of money. Q. You give away hundreds of millions of Tanzanian shillings every year to innumerable causes? A. I do. Q. So, you must have known that Mr. Middleton's legal costs of a dispute that had been running for a few months in Moshi would amount to a negligible amount, in your terms? A. You say I support numerous causes. This would not have been one of the causes I support. I support the poor, the sick. Q. What I am suggesting is that it is just the sort of thing that you, wishing to smooth things over, would have said to somebody like Mr. Middleton, who you felt some sympathy for? A. My Lord, I had sympathy, and that is why I suggested I should meet him, but not sympathy to pay. Q. I am sorry to have to ask you this, Mr. Mengi, but you were in a distressed state in the course of that meeting, were you not? A. Yes. Q. It would be fair to describe you -- and, again, I am sorry to
MENGI-PRICE to the back of it, at tab C, and go to page 203. A. Yes. Q. You will see, at the top of the page -- this is the letter from Mr. Middleton to you of 25th March -- right at the top of the page, on the left, Mr. Nguma has written "case file"? A. Yes. Q. Do you know what the case file was? A. I didn't know that file. It is Mr. Nguma's file. Q. Mr. Nguma had a file on the Silverdale dispute, did he not? A. Silverdale --I don't know. Mr. Nguma must be asked. I don't know why they put that mark on there. It is not me. Q. Do you recall whether or not you had access to a file of documents on the Silverdale case? A. No, never. Q. You see, Mr. Middleton says that in preparation for the meeting with Mr. Pocock, he had prepared all the documentation -- for your Lordship's note, this is paragraph 44 of Mr. Middleton -- he had prepared all the documentation relevant to the purchase of the lease agreement, in the expectation that he would need to be able to explain the situation. You understand that? A. Yes. Q. It makes perfect sense, does it not? A. Except I didn't -- it makes sense, yes.
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MENGI-PRICE Q. He says that he offered to show you the relevant documents, so that you understood what he was saying, that he was being harassed and that he was unable to register his lawful property. Do you remember him saying that? A. Yes. Q. You do? A. I didn't get your question right. I am sorry, my Lord. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Put it again, Mr. Price. MR. PRICE: He says that he was ready to show you documentation about the lease agreement so that you understood what his problem was. Do you remember him ---A. I can't remember him asking me that question. Q. You do not? A. No. Q. And he says that your response was that you had reams of paper and there was no need for an explanation? A. My Lord, I had nothing, no reams of paper. As I say, my knowledge of this was very scanty, and I don't know where I would have got those from, because I didn't have any. Q. But if (as you have accepted) it made perfect sense that Mr. Middleton had prepared the documentation to show you, it makes perfect sense that he would have said, "Look, let me show you"? A. My Lord, I cannot remember Mr. Middleton saying that he had
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MENGI-PRICE Excellency, the High Commissioner, along with Mr. Middleton, and it had been proposed that at the meeting I should act as mediator, to help them come back together as friends, find a way out of their dispute, of their problem; nothing more than
that. 7 Q. That is all? 8 A. That is all. 9 Q. Well, did you say to your brother, "Look, Mr. Middleton's
10 11
complaint is that you are harassing him with trumped-up
charges". 12 A. My Lord, not at all. 13 Q. Why not? 14 A. My mission was to bring them together, to talk and find a
15 16
solution to their problem, because we had to be together to
listen to both sides. 17 Q. But how could you even begin to bring them together unless you 18 had sorted out with your brother whether the charges that he
19 20
had brought against Mr. Middleton were well founded or ill founded?
21 A. My Lord, I didn't want to take any side. I wanted them to 22 come together first, and I would facilitate them to talk to 23 24 25
each other, to discuss their problems, and let us find a solution to their dispute. I couldn't have taken sides, that and that. Then I would invite some ----
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MENGI-PRICE papers to show.
3 Q. But are you prepared to accept that he may have said it? 4 A. I can't remember. I can't remember. 5 Q. He says that the reason that he did not show you the 6 7
documentation was because you brushed it aside and you said,
"I have reams of paper. There is no need for an explanation." 8 A. My Lord, I could not accept that, because I had no reams of 9 paper. My knowledge of Silverdale was very scanty.
10 Q. Well, can I now ask you what you did as a result of the 11 meeting with Mr. Pocock? You spoke to your brother, Benjamin? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did you see him face to face or did you speak to him on the 14 telephone? 15 A. On the telephone. 16 Q. Roughly how long did that conversation last? 17 A. I don't keep a record of the discussion time, my Lord, but 18 19
enough time for me to explain to him what was happening and what was going to happen, if he was willing to participate.
20 Q. What are we talking about: ten minutes or three-quarters of 21 an hour or two hours? 22 A. Quarter an hour, possibly; maybe 10, 15 minutes -- because 23 I didn't want a lot of details of Silverdale. 24 Q. Just tell my Lord how the conversation went? 25 A. My Lord, I told my brother that I had a meeting with His
MENGI-PRICE Q. I am not suggesting that you should have taken sides, but you might have been at least interested to know what your brother had to say about the suggestion that the charges of forging the lease were trumped up? A. My Lord, I showed a good intention, even though I was in pain, because of my son. I took the liberty of writing to Middleton immediately. I met the High Commissioner on the 13th, my Lord. On the 14th, the High Commissioner wrote to me. On the 16th, I wrote to my young brother, to show that I was prepared to spend my time to help them as quickly as possible. Otherwise, the way I was at that time, my Lord, I couldn't have spent time with anybody, because of what I was going through; but I did, so that I could help them resolve their issues quickly. Q. Again, if we can just come back to reality, the only way in which you could possibly help anybody to resolve an issue was, first of all, to find out what your brother Benjamin had to say about Mr. Middleton's complaint that he was facing a trumped-up charge of forging the lease and that, consequently, he could not register it? A. My Lord, I wanted to go into this mediation with a clear mind, put them together, let each one put forward his position and they would talk, not to come up with pre-determined positions. Q. Well, I have to suggest to you -- I am not going to go on with
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MENGI-PRICE this, Mr. Mengi -- that what you say makes absolutely no sense whatever. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: It is not really a question, is it, Mr. Price? MR. PRICE: It is a comment, my Lord. I thought it right to put the suggestion. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Can you just help me with this, Mr. Mengi. You have told counsel what you said to Benjamin in this conversation.
MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. So, Benjamin says he must "fully and unconditionally honour 3 the agreements", and you did not ask him, "Well, which
1
agreements are those"? 5 A. That wasn't my objective. My objective was to bring them 6 together so that -- Middleton, I am sure, must have known the
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10 A. Yes, my Lord. 11 Q. So far as you can remember, what was his reply? 12 A. The reply -- for the first time, he softened on this question 13 14 15 16
of Silverdale and he said, "Yes, I am willing to meet with Middleton under this condition"; and this is the first time, my Lord, my young brother had agreed to listen to something to do with Silverdale.
17 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. Carry on. 18 MR. PRICE: If you still have file 1.2 there, would you go, right 19 20 21 22 23 24
at the back, still in tab D, to page 197. This is your letter to Mr. Pocock of three days after the meeting, and in the meantime you have spoken to your brother, Benjamin. You say: "I would like to reiterate my sincere undertaking to do all that is possible and within my power to ensure that justice is done." That was your desire, was it not?
25 A. Yes, it was my desire.
agreements, but I don't want to start digging into the affairs of Silverdale. Q. Well, how is a neutral mediator to help if he was not even prepared to find out anything about what the problem was? A. My Lord, I don't know whether or how other mediations are done, but, for me, I thought the first thing I will do is bring them both together and talk. That is at least what you do back home -- bring people together, let them talk in the presence of each other, because if I bring one at a time I will not know what is true or what is not true. Q. But, apparently, your brother was saying that he would only meet and have discussions if these conditions were met? A. I know, but I also wanted to hear from Middleton what he will say. Q. Well, you must have had a vague understanding that the agreements that Benjamin is talking about here are the agreements by which Stuart Middleton acquired the farm from your brother? A. My Lord, I say I did not know, I had no clue. I just put on
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MENGI-PRICE Q. "In this regard, I have had preliminary discussions with Benjamin Mengi, who has in principle agreed to withdraw the case against Stuart if Stuart will fully and unconditionally honour the agreements." Which agreements were those? A. That is what he told me. I don't even know. I have no clue what they are. I just put on a piece of paper what he told me. As I said, my knowledge of Silverdale is very scanty. Q. So, your efforts of neutral mediation involve your ringing your brother and not mentioning that the complaint against him was that he was bringing trumped-up charges? together. That is why I say I move very fast for them to come together, so that each one can put his position in the meeting. "fully and unconditionally honour the agreements"? least even for him either to agree or to disagree, but let me know what was going to happen, what message I would take to bring them together. But at that time my effort was to bring them together to talk. brother was talking about?
12 A. How would I start saying that? I wanted them to come
16 Q. So, Benjamin tells you what his opinion is, that Stuart must 18 A. But my Lord, if he does not accept to Stuart, I thought at
23 Q. But you must have had some vague idea of which agreements your 25 A. My Lord, not at all.
MENGI-PRICE record what my brother told me. Q. Mr. Mengi, I have to challenge that answer. You must have understood that the agreements that Benjamin was talking about were the agreements by which he and Stuart had agreed that he would sell him the farm? A. I am under oath here and whatever I am saying is true. Q. You have no idea? A. I have no idea. I didn't want to know, until they get together. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: The contents of this letter, did you just take it down at dictation? A. Yes, my Lord, because I didn't want.... MR. PRICE: You did not say, "Well, what agreements are those"? A. Even right now, you ask me, I don't know. Q. Well, as a matter of common sense, it is clear that they are the agreements by which Mr. Middleton was to acquire the farm and by which your brother was to pay for it? A. My Lord, I did not even ask about the agreement, because I did not want to form an opinion on anything until and unless I met with them and opened up each other's points of view, so they could discuss sensibly. I didn't know. I don't know. Q. Again, Mr. Mengi -- and that will be nearly my final question before we rise for lunch -- you are an intelligent and experienced man.
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MENGI-PRICE A. Thank you. 3 Q. And one thing that you clearly understood from this 4 conversation is that the agreements were not forged; that is 5 right, is it not? 6 A. I said I don't know. I didn't have details, information of 7 what was happening. 8 Q. Just look at the letter: "Benjamin Mengi, in principle, has 9 agreed to withdraw the case if Stuart will fully and 10 unconditionally honour the agreements." He is not referring 11 to forged contracts, is he? 12 A. I don't know. I don't know. 13 Q. You see, what I am suggesting to you, Mr. Mengi, is that as a 14 result of all of this, you understood full well that the 15 charges brought against Mr. Middleton were, indeed, trumped 16 up? 17 A. My Lord, I did not have any details of what was happening with 18 Silverdale, and I am not going to comment on something which 19 I have no clue of -- nothing. 20 Q. You thought the agreements referred to in your letter might be 21 forgeries? 22 A. My Lord, I don't know. I am just saying he mentioned 23 agreements and I put them on a piece of paper. 24 MR. PRICE: My Lord, would that be a good moment? 25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, it would. We will break off until
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MENGI-PRICE and I do not speak to my brother on everything. As I said, when I try to discuss his businesses, he gets upset with me. That is reality. certainly untrue that Mr. Middleton had forged the contract by which he acquired the farm? of the case with my brother. genuinely concerned about justice would have been worried about those charges, which, for all you knew, were still pending against Mr. Middleton and Mr. Ngolo. mediator and listen to both sides and be able to consider them. That is why I agreed to mediate. brother and written to Mr. Pocock? If you take file 3 and go to tab A, page 6, this is Nipashe on 3rd January 2006; so, it is about three weeks or so after the meeting with Mr. Pocock. Let us read it together. Headline: "Investor given 7 days to pay 7 million shillings. The National Social Security Fund Kilimanjaro Regional Branch, has given Mr. Middleton, investor of Silverdale Farm, an ultimatum of seven days within which to pay workers' contribution arrears of 7.8 million shillings."
5 Q. You knew, having spoken to your brother, that it was almost
8 A. Can I say again, my Lord, that I did not discuss the details 10 Q. You see, what I am suggesting to you is that someone who was
14 Q. I did not know details. That is why I agreed to become a
17 Q. Can we look and see what happened after you had spoken to your
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MENGI-PRICE two o'clock. (Adjourned for a short time) MR. PRICE: Mr. Mengi, we saw this morning that in your letter to Mr. Pocock you said that it was your sincere undertaking to do all that was possible and within your power to ensure that justice was done? A. Yes. Q. Well now, you knew that Mr. Middleton and Mr. Nguma were facing criminal charges of forgery? A. No. Q. Yes, you did, because you had read it in your newspaper? A. I do not -- I am not editor. I never control content. Q. When you read it in your newspaper, are you telling my Lord that you did not believe it? A. But I say I do not read every paper every day. Q. However, you read that one. We have been through this. You read that issue? A. Yes, if I read the papers; but I cannot take an action on content. Q. You knew, Mr. Mengi, that Mr. Middleton was facing charges brought by your brother of forging the contract by which he acquired the farm? A. I say I did not know many things. I only know information about Silverdale (inaudible). I did not get involved at all,
MENGI-PRICE We are talking about what -- I am doing it in my head -3,500, or something. "This step follows complaints by the employees of the company that contributions are not being submitted, although they are being deducted by their employer since the company started." You see, what is being said, in effect, is that Mr. Middleton is pocketing the social security contributions that he is collecting from his employees. You understand that, Mr. Mengi? A. Yes. Q. You do not appear to be particularly interested, if I may say so? A. I am sorry, my Lord, I do not understand. Q. Okay. Well, we will carry on. "The NSFF Regional Manor for Kilimanjaro has directed the manager of the farm to pay the arrears within seven days." So, it seems that this is a letter that has been written by the NSFF to Mr. Middleton, according to this story, telling him to pay up. "The director has not paid contributions for 35 employees from June 2004 up until December 2005." So it is alleged that he has collected, but failed to pay over 18 months' worth of contributions for all his employees. "If he does not pay this debt, stern action will be taken .... (reads to the words)... as an investor." Did you see that ----
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MENGI-PRICE 2 MR. RAMPTON: Hang on, the article finishes over the page. 3 MR. PRICE: I am so sorry, I beg your pardon. "The director was
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not available to comment on the allegations, despite efforts by PST to contact him by telephone." Did you see that article when it came out? A. I could have seen it. I see (inaudible) and I could have seen it. Q. You did see it? A. Yes. Q. These are very seriously damaging allegations against Mr. Middleton, are they not? You will accept that? A. Certainly, yes. Q. They trash his reputation, particularly with people, local people in the area of the farm? A. Yes. Q. Mr. Middleton says that none of that is true. You understand that? A. Yes. Q. Are you at all concerned that this sort of material should be appearing in your newspaper? A. I have been saying that I do not tamper with editor independence and there is nothing that I could have done on reading this article because by so doing I would be interfering with their editorial independence and I am not the
MENGI-PRICE Q. "Over 2000 members .... (reads to the words)... worked very hard to raise." That is accusing Mr. Middleton of destroying the coffee trees on the farm, is it not? A. Yes. Q. "Reading a report .... (reads to the words) ... was abandoned." That is suggesting that Mr. Middleton abandoned the farm. "The Fiona company made .... (reads to the words) ... a farm to emulate..." that is under your brother, Mr. Benjamin Mengi, "....but now the farm has been turned into an abandoned bush, said the report, in part. It said that inspection .... (reads to the words) ... 15 out of 25 houses." It is accusing Mr. Middleton, effectively, of laying waste to the farm, is it not? A. Yes. Q. "Machines in the coffee factory were also lost in questionable circumstances," suggesting that Mr. Middleton may have in some way spirited them away. "Sequence of events .... (reads to the words) ... contract documents of the farm." So that is in successive articles and if you look at the next page, page 9, on the same day, there is essentially the same report appears in Nipashe. Did you see either of those articles? A. Yes. Q. You did? Had your brother told you that the charges had been
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MENGI-PRICE editor. Q. What you could have done would be to have contacted the Managing Director of the Guardian and to have said, "Look, I have been asked about this, both by Mr. Middleton and by the British High Commissioner. It is a matter that involves my brother. I need to be sure that this is being properly dealt with." A. Thank you for suggesting, but I did not do that because I did not want to tamper with the content of the papers. Q. You just washed your hands of it? A. I am not the editor. Q. If we go to the next one, which is on page 8, this is now on 19th January. A. Page? Q. Page 8? A. Thank you. Q. That is rather difficult to read, but if you look over the page, there is a transcript of it. This is 19th January. This is in the Guardian, "Moshi businessman takes back coffee plantation. Members of the cooperative societies, who own the farm, have named Fiona (T) as the legitimate investor." That is your brother's company, Fiona (T)? A. Yes. Q. You knew that?
MENGI-PRICE dismissed on 5th December? A. No. Q. You know that now? A. I did not know the details of Silverdale and I have never bothered to find what has happened at Silverdale, apart from what I heard from Middleton after the meeting. Q. Yes, from Mr. Middleton and Ms. Hermitage? A. Yes, but if I knew all this, there is nothing I could have done. Nothing at all. Q. You see, what I am suggesting is that it is a shocking state of affairs that your newspapers are publishing material which trashes the Middletons' reputation is wholly false? A. However, what could I have done? I do not own the farm. I am not the shareholder. Q. You own the newspapers? A. However, I am not the editor. I cannot tamper with editorial independence, full-stop. Q. Even if the editor publishes material that is entirely false? A. It is upon the reader or the person who is hurt to take legal action. Q. We will see what Mr. Middleton and Ms. Hermitage did in a moment, but just focus on this now. Let us assume that Mr. Middleton and Ms. Hermitage are telling the truth when they say that charges had been dismissed on 5th December; is
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MENGI-PRICE it not a shocking state of affairs that your newspapers are continuing to report that they are facing these charges as
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late as 19th January? 5 A. You see, I keep on, I do not want to -- I want you to believe 6 me, that I do not tamper with the editor independence, just
7
full-stop.
8 Q. Well, my suggestion to you, as you know, is that it would be 9 natural and human, as well as entirely proper, for the 10 11
proprietor to intervene to ensure that proper journalistic
ethics and standards were being observed. 12 A. Thank you for the lesson, but that is what I will learn with 13 media. Media, you cannot tamper with editorial independence. 14 Q. So you are perfectly content for your newspapers to go on
15 16
reporting matter which you knew full well supported your brother's position in this dispute?
17 A. I say I do not tamper with the editorial independence. 18 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think this is becoming a little repetitive, 19
Mr. Price. I have got the point.
20 MR. PRICE: Thank you, my Lord. If we can then just see one more 21 before we come to the letters? If you go to page 1, this is 22
Nipashe, on 2nd February 2006. Did you see this article?
23 A. I could have seen it. 24 Q. I do not know whether my Lord has had an opportunity of 25 reading these? "British claimed to uproot coffee trees from
MENGI-PRICE reckless disregard for common law and professional duty of care and so forth. He also points out that they have been published on the daily website of the IPP group, published internationally. Then he says, "On 24th February .... (reads to the words) ... in Tanzania might be restored." It is a perfectly proper step for someone who feels that they have been seriously damaged by something published in your newspapers, to write first to the Managing Editor and then to you? A. Yes. Q. If we look at the letter that was enclosed with that letter, it is on page 199, this was written on 24th February and what has not come through in the photocopy is that it is stamped, right in the middle of the page, just below 24th February -- your Lordship does not see this on the photocopy, but it is stamped "Received, 2nd March 2006." That is on the original which, if necessary, we can look at because it is in court. "Received, 2nd March 2006." Possibly "2/3/06." A. Which letter are you looking at, please? Which one is it? Q. You are looking at page 199? A. Yes. Q. The original is in court, but there is a stamp on it in the middle of the page, just under the date, "Received, 2nd March 2006" on the original.
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MENGI-PRICE farm .... (reads to the words) ... as the genuine investor." Were you concerned to see the references to Mr. Middleton as a foreign investor? There is a certain anti-foreign investor flavour to all this, is there not, Mr. Mengi? A. It is your opinion. Q. What do you think? I am asking you. A. I am not a shareholder in the company, I am not the partner of my brother and I am not the editor. There is nothing that I could have done with this information. Q. Right. Well, we will move on, then, to file 1.2 and look at the letters. Do we have file 1.2, at tab D. If we start with the page 199, this is -- I am sorry, I am looking at the wrong one. It is page 203 that I want you to look at, please. This is a letter to you and Mr. Rampton made some reference to this this morning. Just to remind you, Mr. Middleton refers you to enclosed newspaper articles and we can assume that they would be some of the newspaper articles that we have just been looking at. That would be right, would it not? A. Could be. Q. "Many of the articles have appeared in newspapers published subsequent to our meeting," and he reminds you of the meeting that you had had in December. Then he effectively complains of the malicious and mocking campaign of press coverage,
MENGI-PRICE MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Since this is apparently contentious, perhaps we had better look at the document. MR. PRICE: We had better, yes. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: So much talk of forged documents in this case, who knows this one might be forged, let us have a look at it. MR. PRICE: Can we just hand it up to my Lord? Perhaps Mr. Mengi could have a look at it. Do you see the stamp, "Received, 2nd March 2006"?
10 A. This one? 11 Q. No, right in the middle of the page, just above ---12 A. Yes, "2nd March 2006" I think. 13 Q. Yes, "Received"? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So I think what we can see, no doubt -- tell me if I am 16 17
wrong -- is that it was received at the Guardian on 2nd March. Would that be right?
18 A. There are three dates here, 5th May and ---19 Q. Just hold on to it for a second because what I want you to 20 21 22 23
agree with, if you will, is that it was sent on 24th February or thereabouts, it was received on 2nd March, but that must be by the Managing Editor of the Guardian newspaper to whom it was sent. Is that right?
24 A. Sorry? 25 Q. When it says, "Received, 2nd March 2006", that must be
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MENGI-PRICE received at the Guardian newspaper?
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3 A. I have no clue. I cannot say yes or no. 4 Q. Well, it makes sense, does it not? 5 A. Whether it makes sense or not, but I do not know. I am seeing 6
this for the first time also.
7 Q. Then we see that it is stamped, "Received by IPP" on 5th May? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. If you look at the top left, what does that say? That is in 10
Swahili?
11 A. It says, "Already there is a file of Silverdale/Middleton." 12 Q. Sorry, say that again, I did not catch that. 13 A. "Already there is a file of Silverdale/Middleton. Should I 14
open a new file?" has not emerged from this, is that that is on a separate piece of paper which has been stapled on to that copy of the letters.
15 MR. RAMPTON: Yes, but what your Lordship does need to know, which 16 17 18
19 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, it has indeed. 20 MR. RAMPTON: There is an entry below it. 21 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Who is MW, do you know? 22 A. I do not know, my Lord. I do not know. 23 MR. PRICE: He is someone at IPP, is he not, not at the Guardian? 24 A. This date, the received date? 25 Q. No, MW.
MENGI-PRICE to the Finance Director. If it is a marketing issue, if it comes to me by accident, I send to back to whatever it is. Q. What do you deal with, Mr. Mengi? A. I said I have delegated many of my things fully. That is why I can afford to have so much time to spend on community work. Q. The truth is that that matter had been raised with you by the British High Commissioner and he had arranged a meeting at which Mr. Middleton had expressed his grave concern about who what was being published in your newspapers? A. Yes, but my Lord, there is nothing I can do with content, unless I break out from the norms of running (inaudible). Q. Now Mr. Middleton is writing to you some time later complaining that it has gone on, the defamatory campaign and sending you copies of the articles. Were you not concerned by that? A. Then do what? I say I do not deal with content on my papers. Perhaps I could be -- even if I had done that, someone could accuse me of tampering with their editorial independence. I cannot ---Q. You could reply to the letter. A. Letters I send to the people who are involved. If the person I send the letter does not reply, then I am sorry, but I cannot also go and say, "Reply to this letter." I am getting hundred and hundreds of letters in a day. There is no way I
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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. MW? 3 Q. He is a member of IPP's staff. 4 A. I do not know all the initials of my staff.
1 5 Q. Even the ones who work in your office at IPP? 6 A. Normally, my junior should not communicate with me of 7 initials, (inaudible) because I cannot remember everybody. So 8 there are very few people in the office whose initials I see. 9 Q. Well, here is the question, Mr. Mengi: were you rather 10 shocked that a letter dated 24th February appeared not to have 11 12
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been dealt with by the Managing Editor of the Guardian newspaper until it was sent to IPP on 5th May?
13 A. There is nothing I can say because the letter is not addressed 14 to me, addressed to Managing Editor and whatever happened 15
between those dates, I do not know, I cannot comment.
16 Q. I am not asking you what happened between those dates. What I 17 am saying is that when you received that letter from 18 19 20 21
Mr. Middleton, who said on 24th February, "My wife wrote to the managing editor of the Guardian and a copy is enclosed for your attention. My wife has not yet received the courtesy of a reply", is that not a rather shocking state of affairs?
22 A. You see, when I receive letters relating, say, to Guardian, I 23 pass that in entirety to my corporate lawyer, corporate 24 25
counsel because I did not want, I do not want to deal with anything which is -- if it is a financial issue, I will send
MENGI-PRICE could have replied to every letter that came to my office. Q. Were you concerned that somebody had, a Ms. Hermitage had written to the Managing Editor of your newspaper as long ago as February with a perfectly proper complaint and had received no reply? A. Whether there is proper complaint or not proper complaint, my responsibility is to pass that document to whoever is concerned. Q. Just look at page 200. This is the second page of the letter that was sent to you, copied to you from a Ms. Hermitage letter. Just look at the second full paragraph. She says "the facts stated in the article" and the article she is referring to is the one that was enclosed which we have looked at, "Moshi businessman takes back coffee plantation." "The facts stated in the article .... (reads to the words) ... for allegations of dishonesty." She is referring there to the report in the Guardian article of the charges, the November charges of the fake cheque and forging the contract, is she not? A. Possibly. Q. Well, she is, is she not? A. Yes. Q. "These statements were irrelevant .... (reads to the words) ... and was and remains under police investigation."
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MENGI-PRICE You must have been considerably shocked that your newspapers were still reporting these charges as current charges well over a month later? A. And do what then? I say I do not tamper with editorial independence. Q. Let us get this absolutely straight: if you discover that your newspapers are running a highly damaging and totally biassed campaign in favour of your brother, there is nothing you can do about it? matter of principle. Whether it is my son, my brother, I will allow the professionals I have employed to do their job. that is wrong? not cross. reason at all why you should not take steps to see that journalistic standards are enforced in relation to your brother, is there?
1 2 3 5 6 8 10 11 12 13 14 15
MENGI-PRICE have a newspaper and follow the procedures or get into trouble. not close that up. Sorry, Mr. Mengi, but just leave that open. If you would be kind enough to. as the witness could be expected ---got at the moment. If you could go back to file 3 and if you could go to page 18 of it, this is in Nipashe. This is going forward some time now to July 2006. This is about a British investor arraigned in (inaudible). "A British investor who runs the Silverdale Estate, which is the property of Benjamin Mengi." Did you see this article?
4 Q. Just go back to file 3, would you? I think you have it. Do
7 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: About two open at the time is probably as much 9 MR. PRICE: It is all that he can, but I think that is all he has
11 A. I do not know the face or an individual when it comes to
14 Q. Even if it appears that something really serious is being done 16 A. The line between me and my editors is a thick line, which I do 18 Q. Well, I will not repeat what I have said before. There is no
16 A. I could have done. 17 Q. It is a pretty one-sided way of putting it, "which is the 18 20 21 23 24
property of Benjamin Mengi", is it not? It is not my farm. I am not a shareholder, I am not the editor. "Earlier Mr. Mengi, who entered into an agreement...." Do you see that paragraph?
19 A. I know, even if I was upset, whatever, what could I have done?
22 A. Thank you for that advice. 23 Q. Your answer is ---24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think we have covered the ground, Mr. Price. 25 MR. PRICE: We have. You sent the letter, this letter, the letter
22 Q. Just look at the last paragraph but two of the article.
25 A. Yes.
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. "... with the foreigner...." Were you concerned about that 3 description of Mr. Middleton?
1 4 A. I say even if I was upset, what could I have done? 5 Q. "... to undertake agricultural activities on the Estate filed 6 a case against the investor, claiming that the latter had
MENGI-PRICE that you received, on to Mr. Nguma. That is page 203. He appears simply to have given the instruction that it be filed? A. Yes. Q. Are you shocked by that? A. I say I do not tamper with the (inaudible) papers. Q. Now that you know? A. Even if was shocked, I could not do anything. Q. Well, I am asking you now, are you shocked by the fact that that is what Mr. Nguma did with it? A. I do not know what he meant. He say "case file" and when you pass a letter to somebody below me, I expected that person to use his position and brains to handle a letter properly, but I cannot tell him "do this" or "do not do that" because it is a person I trust, will take, I would consider, and handle the paper or the letter properly. Q. You see, I have to suggest to you that any reasonable or a humane newspaper proprietor faced with a complaint of this kind would be concerned that his newspapers were taking the side of his own brother in this and, therefore, publishing unfair, one-sided and false stories? A. You see, I never see anything before it is published. I have never seen anything, any story before it is published. In any case, I have seen areas where some people tamper with their editorial journalists and get into trouble. You either
committed forgery." 8 A. You see, if it had been Reginald Mengi in partnership with his 9 brother, you could question me, but if Benjamin had been here,
7
those are the questions you would have been asking him. 11 Q. You knew that those charges had been dismissed months before? 12 A. Even if I knew, what would I have done? 13 Q. Are you shocked by the behaviour of your newspapers now that
10
you know? 15 A. Even if I were shocked, what would I have done? 16 Q. Are you shocked? 17 A. I say even if I was shocked, what would I have done?
14 18 Q. If you go back now to file 1.2. I am sorry to jump around 19 between these files. If we go to the letters of 19th April, 20 21 22 23 24 25
this again is right at the end of that file, at tab D, page 205. So about a month later, just under a month later, Mr. Middleton writes to you again and he says, "I refer to my letter of 25th March, to which I have not received a reply." It is a matter of simple courtesy to give a reply, even if the
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MENGI-PRICE matter has nothing to do with you, is it not? A. Every office, every company has its own policy to handle incoming mail. For me, the policy is to pass it as quickly as possible to the person responsible for that particular issue. As I said earlier, I receive hundreds of letters every day and I could not possibly ---Q. How many letters do you receive every day? A. I said many letters. They are sometimes 20, 30, whatever, but then I cannot respond to every paper. Then I would spend all my time writing papers, letters. Q. He says that he encloses a further letter written to the Managing Editor, the contents of which are self-explanatory. "You will remember at our meeting...." and we looked at that this morning, "... you personally gave an undertaking that they would cease. At least four defamatory .... (reads to the words) ... the damage they have caused." Then he encloses a letter to the Managing Editor of the Guardian newspaper. This is page 207. "I refer to the letter .... (reads to the words) ... to reply to this letter." It is quite shocking that a responsible newspaper should allow that to happen, is it not, Mr. Mengi? A. A responsible newspaper is the paper which observes ethics and proper handling of media responsibilities. In my case, this belongs to the editors and not to me. That is why I handed
MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. He just did not reply? You see, it was your decision, was it 3 not, whether these letters should be replied to?
1 4 A. My decision is to pass the letter to the responsible person in 5 the company and the decision to reply lies with the person I
passed the letters to. 7 Q. However, you passed them to Mr. Nguma in his capacity as your 8 lawyer. That is right, is it not? 9 A. Not as a lawyer, as the Chief Legal Counsel.
6 10 Q. The Chief Legal Counsel to your principal company and, indeed, 11 to all your companies? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You pass them for him to give you advice on them. That is 14 right, is it not? 15 A. For this one, I do not pass for advice. This is for action. 16 Q. For action? 17 A. I think when you pass a letter to someone, you expect the 18 19 20
person to read it and find, take action on the letter. I do not expect a letter to be sent to someone and then it is thrown into the dustbin.
21 Q. You see, Mr. Nguma says that what he did when he received 22 these letters from you was that he gave legal advice to you on 23 24
them. Do you remember that? Perhaps I had better show it to
you so that you can answer fully knowing what ---25 MR. RAMPTON: I think that may be a faulty recollection.
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MENGI-PRICE over this letter immediately. Q. What have you to say about the conduct of your editors in failing to reply to these letters? A. I pass letters to my editors for action, but there is no way I can go around telling them to do this or do that. Q. You have no criticism of your editors for not having responded to these letters? A. I say the editors do what they want to do. They are independent. I do not want to tamper with what they do. I never. Q. Did it occur to you that they might be rather frightened about this case because it is so closely involved your brother? A. I think I would never go that way because my brother is a living person and they know that, whether it is my brother or even my child, I will allow them to practice their profession professionally. Q. What you did was you passed these letters to Mr. Nguma? A. Yes, I did. Q. The result was that Mr. Nguma did not reply to them? A. Yes. I did not know whether he replied or not. Q. Well, now that you know ---A. Yes. Q. Have you anything to say about that? A. I feel bad he did not reply to these letters.
MENGI-PRICE MR. PRICE: If my learned friend will be kind enough to restrain himself, that would be very helpful. If you take file 2 and go to tab 2, this is Mr. Nguma's witness statement. Have you read this? A. Yes. Q. You have? A. Which page? Q. Have you read the statement? A. I have seen the statement. Q. You have seen it. Go to paragraph 23, on page 9. Do you see at halfway down the page -- it is page 94 of the bundle, page 11 of the witness statement. Do you have it? A. Yes, yes. Q. If you go to b) in the middle of the page. A. Yes. Q. "As to the letter dated 25th March .... (reads to the words) ... is not waived." Is that what happened? A. I cannot remember. I cannot remember getting advice on the letter because it did not involve me. It was a matter of Guardian. I would not have handled this letter because, first of all, it had to go to Guardian, not me, and as I say, I did not tamper with the independence. Q. No, but you see you say in your witness statement that you passed these letters to Mr. Nguma, not in his capacity as the
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MENGI-PRICE Chairman of the Guardian -- you are very clear about
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MENGI-PRICE believe is true. Otherwise, I am ready to suffer consequences of the lie, but I am telling the truth, my Lord, that I did not know. way down from Moshi to instruct your chief corporate counsel to act in the dispute for him? to his office to see who was in the office. Benjamin Mengi never came to the offices and then saw me, never. could get assistance from your old friend and your corporate lawyer, Mr. Nguma, on this matter and that is what he did? involved. I did not know.
this -- but in his capacity as your lawyer? 4 A. Yes, I am saying, let me put this right ---5 Q. Is that right? You passed them to him in his capacity as your 6 lawyer?
7 A. Yes, but this responsibility, the responsibility was to decide 8 what to do with the letter because, you know, it could not 9
5 Q. What do you think Mr. Benjamin Mengi was doing coming all the
8 A. He was just possibly coming to the (inaudible). I did not go
have come back to me.
10 Q. If you go down to c) on page 94, as to the letter dated 11 19th April written by Stewart Middleton to Reginald Mengi. 12 13 14 15 16
11 Q. Well, I suggest that it is quite clear he came down because he
"It was forwarded to me by Mr. Mengi with the following remarks...." and he reproduces the remarks and he says, over the page, "I considered the letter and gave legal advice to Reginald Mengi, privilege in which is not waived." Is that right?
14 A. I do not know. I cannot say yes or no because I was not 16 Q. Mr. Nguma is a very longstanding friend of yours. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. He is a very key part of your whole business. 19 A. Very much so. 20 Q. He is your corporate counsel? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. I respectfully suggest to you it is inconceivable that he 23 24
17 A. My Lord, I cannot remember to have received legal advice on 18 these letters. 19 Q. Do you think Mr. Nguma is telling the truth there, what he 20 remembers? 21 A. What I am saying, my Lord, I cannot remember. 22 Q. You see, by this time, for some months Mr. Nguma had been 23 acting as counsel for Mr. Benjamin Mengi in his dispute with
would not have told you that he was acting for your brother in this very dispute.
the Middleton's, had he not? 25 A. My Lord, I did not know Nguma was acting for Benjamin Mengi
24
25 A. My Lord, I know it is impossible but having said, just like
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MENGI-PRICE and that is God truth. Q. Well, you know now. A. Yes. Q. What have you to say about that? A. I think I was misled. Q. Who by? A. By Nguma not having told me earlier because he never told me. Q. I am sorry, could you repeat that? A. I said Nguma never, never told me he was dealing with Benjamin Mengi. Q. You see, for Mr. Nguma to be acting for Benjamin Mengi in his dispute with the Middleton's and then to be giving you legal advice on how to deal with a letter from the Middleton's complaining about how your newspapers were handling reporting of that dispute ---A. I am here to speak the truth and I say I did not know at all because are (inaudible) his own firm, which he runs, another firm. Q. I put it to you firmly, Mr. Mengi, that it is inconceivable that your old friend and long-standing lawyer should be advising you in this matter or, indeed, dealing with it at all on your behalf when he was acting for your brother in the dispute? A. My Lord, I am under oath here and I can only tell what I
MENGI-PRICE you, the truth is that I did not know. I am not going to swear and then say a lie. If I say I knew, I would be telling a lie. I did not know. Q. When did you find out? A. When I read in the witnesses from various people, from Middletons, so that is first time I knew. Q. Have you spoken to Mr. Nguma about it? A. Yes. Q. What did he say? A. He said he did not see why he should tell me because it is the firm and not him. Q. It is his firm and not him? A. It is a firm, that is what he told me. You asked me to tell you what he said. Q. That was a lie, was it not? A. You call it a lie but I am telling you what I was told. Q. Let's look at it. File 5.2, and go to tab D, at page 253. A. Yes. Q. You see that this is the plaint in a case between your brother and Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage, and another. It is filed in the High Court of Moshi, on 5th January 2006, some months before the letters we have been looking at. A. Page 233 is a letter dated December ---MR. JUSTICE BEAN: It is 253.
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MENGI-PRICE 2 MR. PRICE: I am so sorry, 253. 3 A. I am sorry, my Lord. Thank you. 4 Q. That is the plaint issued in the High Court in Tanzania. You 5 can see at the top of the page, 5th January 2006.
1 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. If you go to the end of it, 257, you will see that it is 8 jointly drawn and filed by two firms of lawyers, the second of 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 2 3 5 7 8
MENGI-PRICE on the 7th Floor of Huldery Plaza Building who works for AL Nguma and Company except Mr. Nguma. registered office somewhere in business elsewhere. your brother, against the Middletons, and that he did not tell you, what is your view of that?
4 A. That is his registered office but sometimes they have a 6 Q. Now that you know that Mr. Nguma was personally acting for
which is AL Nguma and Company, 7th Floor, (?)Huldery Plaza Building; that is your office. A. Yes. Q. And it is signed by Mr. Nguma, personally. A. Yes. Q. Did Mr. Nguma tell you then that it was his company, not him? A. I said I saw for the first time someone has a connection between Nguma and my young brother Benjamin. I had no clue they were working together, he was working for him. Q. When you spoke to Mr. Nguma about it, what did he say? A. He said he was doing this under his firm and I did not see why he should have reported this to me. Q. I am sorry, say that again. A. He did not see why he should have told me. That is what he told me. Q. When he said he was doing it under his firm, did you take him to mean it was nothing to do with him personally?
9 A. My view is that he should have told me. That is my view. 10 Q. He was in a position of an impossible conflict of interest, 11
was he not?
12 A. I think so. 13 Q. And it was completely wrong that he should even be considering 14 15
dealing with correspondence on behalf of the Guardian Limited with the Middletons.
16 A. I think so. 17 Q. But this is all Mr. Nguma's fault? 18 A. Let him speak for himself. I am speaking for myself. 19 Q. After that you did nothing to stop the campaign of defamation 20 21 23 25
in your newspapers against Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage, which went on and on for months. with editorial independence. and on for months. It is not surprising that he did nothing,
22 A. I do not know what (inaudible) I have said I do not tamper 24 Q. And Mr. Nguma did nothing to stop this campaign which went on
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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. No, I think he acted as -- I am not a lawyer -- he just said 3 it was his firm and not Nguma, my legal counsel.
1 4 Q. But you can see now that that is not right, it is Mr. Nguma 5 personally? 6 A. Yes, I can see now. 7 Q. How many people work in his firm? 8 A. That I do not know. That is a question to ask him. 9 Q. Well, the office is in your office. 10 A. I do not know whether the firm has another place to go to. I 11 do not know. I do not know what is his business. 12 Q. We heard this morning that Mr. Nguma's room is just across the 13 other side of a conference room from your room? 14 A. In Tanzania it happens with lawyers, it happens with doctors, 15 when they do something different from what they are officially 16 17 18 19
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doing, officially assigned to do, they have some other practices, some of them not in a place where he is employed but somewhere else, so I do not know whether he was operating his business from IPP offices or not.
20 Q. Where is AL Nguma and Company advocates' office? 21 A. It says IPP offices. 22 Q. Yes, how many people work for that business as opposed to IPP? 23 A. As I say, I do not know whether he also works for another firm 24 of lawyers. I do not know. 25 Q. I think what you are saying is that actually there is nobody
MENGI-PRICE is it, because he was acting for Benjamin Mengi? A. That one he must be asked, not me to ask. Q. What is your view of it? A. I have already told you my views. I think he should have told me. Q. It goes further than that. It is an absolutely shocking state of affairs that Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage have complained to your managing editor and you personally, and that you have passed it to your chief corporate counsel and that nothing has been done because Mr. Nguma is acting for Benjamin Mengi secretly, according to you. It is shocking, is it not? A. You can use what word you want to use. Q. It is your evidence, Mr. Mengi, what is your view? A. I say I am disappointed he did not tell me. Q. That is all? A. What do you want me to say? Q. What about Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage, do you have anything to say to them on this subject? A. I have got nothing to say. Q. Do you think they are deserving of an apology? A. From who? Q. From you. A. For what?
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MENGI-PRICE Q. That your newspapers and your managing editor, and your chief corporate counsel, allowed this to continue for months. A. My news editor, my news editor is independent person. I do not tamper with the content of my papers and I cannot bear the cross of some other people. Q. I am not going to take you through the rest of the articles. I will take my Lord through them. My Lord has probably read them already. We can go through them at leisure later. I have made the point that the campaign of vilification is a fair word, have you read those articles? The later ones? A. Which ones? Q. The later ones, the ones after those letters from Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage, the articles in Nipashe and the Guardian? A. I could have read them. Q. Let's just look at one of them. Just take file 3 again, if you would, file 3, tab A, page 21. There had been quite a number of articles in the meantime which I am not going to take you through but this one is many months after you received those letters from Mr. Middleton in March and April 2006. This is now February 2007. Have you read this article, "Controversy as High resident is hurt in the assault by armed gang". A. Yes.
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MENGI-PRICE standing by while your staff made a murderous attack on someone? A. I say that does not depend on how she feels but for me I feel hurt. I feel very hurt. You cannot compare, the idea of comparing with the articles in my paper for which I had no control, but she had control of what she said about me. Q. It is you who appoints the directors of this company, is it not? A. No, you do not understand. There is something called editorial independence and these articles are written by my editors, but for her she is the author of all their letters. I am not the author of these articles. Q. You are the person who appoints the directors of the Guardian Limited. A. I gave an example for which I begged my Lord to make it, and I said my president in Tanzania appoints the charges but the president cannot even tell the editors, decide on this case this way or that way. They are independent, and so are my editors. Q. Mr. Mengi, I will just give you one further opportunity to answer this and then we will leave it and move on. It is a shocking state of affairs, do you not agree, that these articles of this highly defamatory character should continue without Mr. Nguma taking any action, without your managing
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MENGI-PRICE It is a shockingly defamatory article, is it not? Could be. You say "could be"? Because I do not control, I expect my editors to make a professional view of an article. I do not decide that should go in, that should not go in. I am not the editor. Q. What this article says is that an unfortunate resident of High District was the subject of a murderous attack by Mr. Middleton's staff, "and the British investor was simply looking on and made no attempt to save my life." It is a shockingly defamatory article, is it not, Mr. Mengi? A. What would you have done if you are in my position? Q. Perhaps you would answer the question. It is a shockingly defamatory article, is it not? A. I am sure not in the opinion of the editors, that is why they allowed this article to go through and as I say I am not an editor. Q. It is a far worse allegation than any allegation that has been made against you by Miss Hermitage, is it not? A. That is your point of view. Q. What is your point of view? A. My view, I am much more hurt. Q. You think you are more hurt by what has been said about you than you would have been if somebody had accused you of just Q. A. Q. A.
MENGI-PRICE editors taking any action, when Mr. Nguma is all this time acting for your brother in the dispute with the Middletons. A. I have already made my position clear. I did not know. Q. I suggest to you, Mr. Mengi, I put this to you to give you an opportunity to answer it, that you were perfectly happy to permit your newspapers to run a series of articles extremely damaging to the Middletons and very supportive of your brother in his attempts to drive them off the farm. A. Whether or not that was happening, what could I have done? You can be unhappy or happy but you still cannot take action. I said there is no way I could have taken action because I would be interfering with the editorial independence, so the issue of happy or not happy does not arise. Q. Okay. Can I just ask you briefly to look at it from the Middleton's point of view? They have no knowledge of the internal arrangements within your newspapers, all they know is that you own them. That is right, is it not? A. That is right. Q. The Middletons have no knowledge of the internal management arrangements at your newspapers. All they know is that you own it. A. Maybe. Q. They had raised the point that you or Mr. Middleton had at the meeting with Mr. Pocock.
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MENGI-PRICE A. Yes. 3 Q. And your evidence is that you do not remember that Mr. Pocock 4 said that you had agreed to look into it. 5 A. I do not remember. 6 Q. You do not remember. They have then written to you and to 7 your managing editors with the clearest possible complaints; 8 that is true, is it not? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And they received no reply from you or anyone else at your 11 newspapers? 12 A. Whether or not the Middletons know how it operates, it does 13 not give me privilege to breach media ethics. I cannot say, 14 "....(inaudible) and therefore I am going to do this and 15 that," to interfere with the opinions. The answer is no. 16 Q. Not even to ensure that they got a reply? 17 A. I passed the letters to the people I trust. 18 Q. Wrongly, as it turned out. 19 A. Maybe wrongly but I did take action to pass those letters to 20 the people to handle them. 21 Q. You did not reply and you did not deny that you had given an 22 undertaking to Mr. Pocock about this. 23 A. I had not given undertaking. 24 Q. I am sorry, that is not the question. You did not ---25 A. You can ask the question that had not given ---1 2
MENGI-PRICE 2 A. I say I am not the editor. I do not tamper with the editorial 3 independence. I will do it for anybody, whether it be my son,
1
my brother, my best friend, I would not compromise. 5 Q. Now all these newspaper reports that we have been looking at 6 and many that we have not looked at, I have not looked at them
4 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
all but we will be considering them carefully in the course of this trial, all of those went on to the IPP Media website. A. Which nobody saw. Q. You know that they did, do you not? A. I am sure they must have gone. Q. I am sorry? A. I am sure they must have found their way and depending on the editor of the IPP Media site. Q. Are you at all concerned about the damage to the Middletons' reputation from that material being available on the website? A. I do not tamper with editorial at all. Q. That is not the question. A. But, you see, whether I was sorry ---Q. Were you sorry? A. Let me finish. I am saying, whether I was sorry or not, if I could take, if it is permissible to take action, certainly I would have formed a view. You have to investigate the article, read it and find out what has happened. But I cannot do that. I would be breaching, breaking very fundamental rule
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MENGI-PRICE Q. You did not deny, when it was put to you straight in a letter, you gave an undertaking that it would stop. You did not deny it. A. I said I did not give any assurance. Q. Now answer the question, if you would, Mr. Mengi. Is it right that you did not deny it? A. What do you mean? Q. Look at it from Mr. Middleton's point of view, and Miss Hermitage. A. I did deny that I did it ---Q. When? You get a letter which reminds you of an undertaking you are said to have given. A. Yes. Q. You decided not to reply. You never denied it, from the Middletons' point of view. A. I got this letter and I forwarded it to the person I thought would be able to handle it for me because it was nothing to do with me but to do with an undertaking which he said I made but I made it in the letter, I said that I did not make that undertaking, did I not? Q. Now perhaps you would answer this question. Can you think of any reason why Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage should not respond to this campaign in your newspapers and give their side of the story?
MENGI-PRICE with Media, tampering with editorial independence. Q. The material, those articles stayed on the IPP website for a long time, did they not? A. I think so. Q. They were there or many of them were still there in March 2010. A. Could be. Q. And possibly after that. A. Maybe. Q. You see, the curiosity about this is that you on your website, IPP Media website, that is an IPP website, are continuing to put out this highly destructive and damaging material about the Middletons and yet you are complaining through your solicitors when they reply to it. A. I am saying one thing, if you want to compare my case with the Middletons, you can. I am saying whatever was in my papers, whatever was posted on the website, it was posted by my editors and I cannot tamper with their work. In the case of the Middletons, what is said about me, it was authored by her. There is a big difference between my case and her case. Q. But she had written to you or Mr. Middleton had to you personally? A. I say be it Middleton, be it my brother, be it my best friend, I cannot compromise principles. I cannot. I follow them to
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1 2 4 5 6 7 9
MENGI-PRICE the letter. and costs which will certainly bankrupt her many times over when all she was doing was responding to material that had gone out in your newspapers when she had complained to you and you had not replied. ----
1 2 3 4 5
MENGI-PRICE witnesses to the effect that, yes, there is a raw script but there is no recording of what whoever it was said these things actually said. I do not know if Mr. Mengi knows anything about it.
3 Q. But here you are suing Miss Hermitage for an amount of damages
6 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: There is doubt ---7 MR. PRICE: Do you have any reason to doubt that Mr. Ngoja is 8 10
8 A. Can you tell me why she was after me? I am not (inaudible) 10 Q. She is not after you, Mr. Mengi. 11 A. She is after me because ---12 Q. She is responding to ---13 A. The partner of Middleton is not me, it is my brother and I am 14
accurately recording what he heard. I cannot say.
9 A. I have never heard of this. He could be telling lies. 11 Q. Why should he? 12 A. Sorry? 13 Q. Why should he? 14 A. I wish I knew. 15 Q. You are not suggesting that he is telling lies? 16 A. I am not suggesting but something which somebody says, I do 17 19 20 22 24
not my brother's keeper.
15 Q. It was your newspapers ---16 A. My newspapers, but my editors, not me. 17 Q. She wrote to you and you did not reply. 18 A. I followed the right route whenever I got letters from her. 19 Q. Let's move on. 20 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Mr. Price, I do not know how much further you 21 22
not know, I cannot say, yes, it is right or wrong. Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage understood had been broadcast on your radio station, is it not? not know. to suggest is in any way ----
18 Q. But at all events it is clear, quite clear, that that is what
have to go but would that be a suitable moment to take a 10-minute break now?
21 A. They may understand so but I do not understand so because I do 23 Q. You do because they received this email which nobody has tried 25 A. I do not know. I cannot tell.
23 MR. PRICE: Entirely, my Lord. 24 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: All right, 25 past 3. 25
(Short adjournment)
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MENGI-PRICE MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, Mr. Price. MR. PRICE: Mr. Mengi, if you would be good enough to take file 1.2, which is the one on the top, and go to the back of it, the very back of it, tab C, at page 209. Do you have page 209? A. Yes. Q. This is an email that you did not see at the time. It was seen by Mr. Ngoja -- we have heard about him -- to Miss Hermitage and Mr. Middleton. It is January 11th 2010. It is about a broadcast on Radio One which Mr. Ngoja says that he heard the previous night. Yes? This is what he says. This is what he reports that he heard on the news: "Silverdale conflict, long conflict. Lasted four years. Between the patriot ....(reads to the words).... while Mr. Benjamin was in the UK tending his sick wife." At the bottom of the page, they even said again, "Mr. Steward destroyed the farms by uprooting the crops and left the farms bare." Then he says that he does not know what to do. You say that you have not looked into what your radio station broadcast on that date because you say it is disproportionate for you to have done so. But you have no reason to doubt that that is what Mr. Ngoja remembers having heard? MR. RAMPTON: I am sorry, what is this about disproportionality? We have an account of this broadcast, radio broadcast given by
MENGI-PRICE Q. You do not know. If you go forward to page 211, this is Miss Hermitage who wrote to you on 12th January, that is the day after she received that email from Mr. Ngoja. That is right, is it not? A. The date said so, yes (inaudible) ---Q. The answer is yes, is it not? A. Yes. Q. It is perfectly clear that she is responding to what she understands had been broadcast on your radio station? A. I do not know. Q. Mr. Mengi, it is perfectly clear, is it not? A. The letter on -- My Lord, the letter on the 11th referred to the broadcast. The letter on the 12th does not tell any connection so I cannot see where it is coming from. Q. If you look back at page 209 ---A. You told me, you asked me whether she wrote after and I am saying I cannot see the connection between the two letters. Q. The connection is that she is asking you to keep your promise to stop the defamation. A. Where is the reference to the broadcast? Q. She does not refer to the broadcast, you are right, but she is writing on the day after she has heard about it. A. How do I know, my Lord? Q. How do you know what?
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1 2 A. Her letter ----
MENGI-PRICE
1 2 4
MENGI-PRICE not? the editor, I do not write those articles.
3 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: He has made it perfectly clear, he has no idea 4 5 7 8
3 A. My Lord, I have said this over and over again, that I am not 5 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I have that point, Mr. Mengi. 6 A. Yes. My Lord, but she was writing the letters. She is 7 8 9 11 13 14 15
whether there was a radio broadcast or what the contents were. This letter is written the following day, so what? written to various people including the Coca Cola company. Yes?
6 MR. PRICE: Okay. This is what she says. She says that she has
attacking the wrong person. She should have sued the editors. I am not the editor. I did not write them. She authored the articles on me. IPP website. of those articles. Her attack should be to the editors, but my attack related to her, she is the one who is authoring the articles against me, that is why I am in this court.
9 A. Yes. 10 Q. She says: "I shall continue to write to organisations and 11 12 13 14 15 16
10 Q. At this time, all those articles were still available on the 12 A. I am not even refusing. I am just saying I was not the source
individuals with an interest in promoting ethical behaviour in Tanzania until you honour the promise you made to the British High Commissioner at your meeting with him in 2005 to stop the defamation campaign against us by IPP Media and pay us compensation in relation to your brother's vexatious legal proceedings."
16 Q. What about the IPP website, is that nothing to do with you? 17 A. If it is about news, news is under editors. It is not me, Reg 18
17 A. Yes. 18 Q. So she is referring back to the promises that she says you 19 21 22 23 24 25
Mengi.
made. defendant, I did not see any possibility of the defendant stopping defaming me. Instead she is making a promise and she is swearing that she will continue to defame me indefinitely, to the end of the world. That is why I came to your court, my Lord.
19 Q. Have you any control at all over the IPP website? 20 A. I do not have control over anything to do with the news within 21 22 24
20 A. You know what, my Lord, that is why I am here because the
the companies I have, nothing. That line is very thick, my Lord. I never, never cross it. chairman?
23 Q. Even the website of the company of which you are the owner and 25 A. I do not tamper with anything to do with news, with media;
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. You did not reply to this letter, did you? 3 A. How do you reply a letter to someone who is almost 4 blackmailing you, saying, bring money, give me money, then
1 5 6
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I can stop. She says, pay us compensation. I do not even
know what the compensation refers to. 7 Q. You know what she was referring to. 8 A. I do not know. 9 Q. Yes, you do, Mr. Mengi.
10 A. I do not know. 11 Q. Because you know that Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage 12 maintain that you had promised to pay their costs. 13 A. When? I never made any promise. This letter to me is a 14 shock, pay money, and if you do not pay money we shall 15 16 17 18
continue to defame you, not even for a month, not one year, indefinitely. I do not even know how much money she was looking for from me, she wanted me to pay. Is it 10 or 1m, I do not even know.
19 Q. You could reply to the letter saying, "I did not give any 20 promises." 21 A. You will do reply to a letter of someone trying to get money 22 out of you? I would not because I do not consider that person
to be ethical. 24 Q. But, you see, you were continuing to defame or your newspapers 25 and IPP were continuing to defame the Middletons, were they
23
MENGI-PRICE nothing. Q. If you look now at file 4, tab B, do you have file 4 there? It is tab B and the first page in tab B. Do you have that? A. Yes. Which one, please? Q. It is the first page in that bit, page 28; do you have that? This is the letter about two months after the letter that we have just been looking at that you received from Miss Hermitage, is it not? A. Yes. Q. This is your solicitors writing to indicate that you have instructed them to commence proceedings. A. Yes. Q. Let's just look forward and see what it is that you are commencing proceedings about. Page 31, it is the enclosures to that letter. That is the letter we have just been looking at, the 12th January 2010 letter. A. Yes. Q. Then over the page there is a letter to the Coca Cola company. A. Yes. Q. Which was written on the same day that Miss Hermitage learnt about the broadcast on Radio One. Did you notice that? A. Where? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: It is page 32. A. My Lord, I was asking about the paragraph. Which paragraph?
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MENGI-PRICE Shall I read through this letter? My Lord, I was asking about the paragraph he is referring to. Which paragraph? Is that the letter? Q. Just look at the date. It is 11th January. Yes? A. Yes. Q. As we have already seen, that was the very day that Miss Hermitage learned about the broadcast on Radio One? A. Yes. Q. Now, if we look back: "We are instructed by Mr. Mengi to commence proceedings against you. The letter claims in accordance with the pre-action protocol" -- and then you refer to two letters, the letters we have just looked at. Then you have set out part of the contents of her letter. Then you say, or your solicitors say, at the bottom of the page: "We are also aware of defamatory statements on the Internet at Silverdale case blog 'Tanzania, Mengi makes the law, shame on'". We do not know what that refers to. "While it would appear that you are the author of the published statement, we would be grateful if you could confirm that you are responsible." Then you set out the passages that you complain of from the Coca-cola letter. Yes -- 2.4? A. 2.4? Q. In 2.5: "The content of your letter from the Coca-cola company has been distributed to a number of individuals. It
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MENGI-PRICE MR. JUSTICE BEAN: That is not right, is it, Mr. Price? It is the only one that is set out in detail, but the first page complains of lots of letters. MR. PRICE: Well, it does not complain of them, my Lord. This is not a point I can pursue with Mr. Mengi, but the pre-action protocol requires you to set out the defamatory words that you complain of, and also suggests that you should enclose a copy of the letter; and they have complied with that fully, but only in relation to the Coca-cola letter. THE WITNESS: My Lord, I passed the information to my lawyers. How they structured the letter, how they write it, it is for my solicitors to write. So, if you question me now, it is not right. MR. PRICE: What I am suggesting is that what you had instructed your solicitors was that your concern was about the letter to the Coca-cola people. A. No. At that time, about almost everything. Q. Had you at that stage seen anything on the Silverdale Farm website? A. Yes, because the Silverdale posting was brought to my attention by my IT manager. Q. Then if you go forward to page 41, you will see that this is Miss Hermitage's solicitors replying: "On the basis of your assertion that you have, on your client's behalf, in your
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MENGI-PRICE contains factual inaccuracies." Over the page, 3.1: "Our client seeks damages..." A. Yes. Q. "...with an apology or an offer to make amends, together with costs. If any further defamatory statements are published or our client takes the view that it is reasonable to suppose that further defamatory statement will be published, our client will seek an immediate injunction." Your concern was the letter to the Coca-cola company, was it not? A. No. I was concerned with all the web postings and all the e-mails. Q. Had you seen the web postings at this date? A. No, not this one. Q. You had not seen ---A. Let me just, please, let me go through. Q. Yes. (Pause) A. This one was one of the e-mails sent out. Q. Yes. It is a complaint about the letter to a Coca-cola company, and that is what I am suggesting to you, that that is what caused you to be concerned? A. No, no. Q. Well, that is the one, and the only one, that is complained of in that letter? A. No.
MENGI-PRICE letter of 9th March, complied with the requirements of the pre-action protocol, we take it that your client's complaint is in respect of the passages that you have identified which have been extracted from the letters to the Coca-cola company." Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. "As the publication of which your client complains took place in the US, it appears to us that US law will apply." I suggest to you that that caused a rethink on your side: "Oh, we cannot complain about the Coca-cola letter"? A. That is your view, not mine, not in my position. Q. But you did not complain about the Coca-cola letter in this action? A. I complained about so many e-mails to Coca-cola, to the IFC, to the World Bank, to Bishop Hansen. Q. Then page 42, four months goes by before your solicitors respond? A. I am not a lawyer. I passed instructions to my lawyer, and he is better to decide what is sent out today or tomorrow. Q. Are you saying that it is down to your lawyers that there was a delay of four months before anything further was said? A. Perhaps they are waiting for some information. I don't know. Q. From you? A. Could be.
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. Well, possibly, for some information, "What are we to do, 3 since we cannot complain about the Coca-cola letter"?
1 4 A. How would they have known? If I have not seen the others, how 5 on earth would I know there is something else coming? At that 6
1 2 3 A. Yes.
MENGI-PRICE a dirty campaign to tarnish your good name?
4 Q. Now, what you were accusing Mr. Manji of in that document was 5 6 7 9 10 11 13 14 15
basically financing the Middletons to produce the Silverdale Farm website and the various communications that you now complain about in this action; that is what you were saying? Es Salaam. That is why I chose to come here. I didn't want parallel proceedings, and I chose this one, because it is more important to me than the Dar Es Salaam case. that case. If you go to file 5.2, tab E at the back, paragraph 5 -- this is the complaint in your claim against Mr. Manji.
time, I had everything to complain about.
7 Q. Well, in this letter you do complain about a number of 8 publications? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. The letter to the Coca-cola company, to the President of the 11 World Bank, to Bishop Hansen, to Internet publications? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And you specify them, or your solicitors do on your behalf, 14 here? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And you say at paragraph 2 that they are all untrue? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. If I can direct your attention to the response to that, at 19 page 47. This is Miss Hermitage's solicitors: "It raises a 20 21 22 23 24 25
8 A. I told you of the Dar Es Salaam case. This is the case in Dar
12 Q. I just want to look with you, if I may, at some documents from
16 A. Yes. 17 Q. In paragraph 5 there is the allegation of the dirty campaign. 18 19 20 21
At paragraph 11: "The conspiracy campaign to tarnish the plaintiff's reputation at the international level and thus the subject of the plaintiff's complaint in this suit commenced in December 2009, via e-mails exchanged between...."
number of additional publications which your client now wishes to extend the claim." Over the page, just notice what it says at the top of page 48. Do you see, about four lines in: "The website was set up as the only means available to our client to reply to the public attacks on her husband and herself in the campaign of vilification waged against them by IPP Media
22 A. Paragraph, please? 23 Q. Paragraph 11. 24 A. Thank you. 25 Q. Have you got that?
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MENGI-PRICE Publications, owned and controlled by your client"? A. Yes. Q. You saw that? A. I didn't see this before, but I understand what you mean. Q. Well, you must have seen it before. Your solicitors must have sent it to you? A. I say I have not seen this before. Q. You have never seen this before? A. I cannot remember. I cannot say whether I have seen it. Q. It is nothing short of the truth, is it, that the website was really the only means available to Mr. Middleton and Miss Hermitage to respond to the public attacks in your newspapers? A. I cannot expect a person to call me a liar, say corrupt, because he cannot complain also to the editors of the papers. I am not the editor. She is attacking the wrong person. I am not the editor and I don't have anything to do with Silverdale Farm. Q. Now, the next thing that happened very shortly after that was that you issued proceedings against Mr. Manji in a court in Tanzania? A. Yes. Q. My Lord has seen that, and you will recall. But the allegation is that Mr. Manji conspired with the Middletons in
MENGI-PRICE A. Yes, thank you. Q. "The conspiracy campaign commenced December 2009 via e-mails exchanged between Miss Sarah and the defendants"; and then you produce them at RM/5. Yes? A. Yes. Q. Well, if you go forward to page 339, you will find RM/5, and you see the first of them is December 2009. It is from Miss Hermitage to Mr. Manji. Yes?
10 A. Yes. 11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Page? 12 MR. PRICE: I am so sorry, my Lord. 339. Do you have that, 13
Mr. Mengi?
14 A. Yes. 15 Q. "Dear Yousef, I am trying to get hold of it now. It is a 16 17 18
subscription piece. It is call Tarnished Halo, quite damaging of Tanzania, which of course you will not like. The issue I want Rosdan to be aware of" -- that is Mr. Aziz, Rosdan?
19 A. Yes. 20 Q. That is Mr. Aziz? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. He was a Member of Parliament? 23 A. He was. 24 Q. He was. He is no longer -- and one of the people you had 25
accused of being a "shark of corruption"?
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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. As you accused Mr. Manji of being? 4 A. Yes.

1 5 Q. "The issue I want Rosdan to be aware of is the fact that in 6 November 2005 Mengi asked Andrew Pocock for a meeting. He 7 stated he was worried about the Silverdale issue and the 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15
MENGI-PRICE Before Action, my letter to Mengi, my letter to Mr. Herman. For the first time I have him in a court of law in the UK, where the truth is a complete defence." That is a reference to this action, is it not? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think the witness may be wondering what the question is, Mr. Price. MR. PRICE: Well, I will just ask him to look at one more document, page 351, and what is there is a PR log. Now, here is the question. How is that evidence of a conspiracy between Mr. Manji and Miss Hermitage to circulate defamatory allegations about you, in particular, on the Silverdale Farm website? Dar Es Salaam.
damage it was doing to him and his business. Andrew said what about us, and the defamation of appearing in IPP Media. Mengi gave his promise it would stop. It did not. From that month it escalated. He stated, as editor, he was not responsible and here he is suing Rosdan again. Please read the whole of this link and the court judgment, look at the conduct of Mengi and IPP Media. Surely, someone as powerful as Rosdan can throw this at Mengi." Then over the page, 341, this is another e-mail from Miss Hermitage to Mr. Manji: "Anyone wants to pay for us to sue Mengi for defamation, they are welcome and they can keep the damages" -- and then there are about ten exclamation marks; it is obviously a joke. Then over the page, page 343, this is from Miss Hermitage to Mr. Manji again: "It has just been announced on Radio One in Tanzania that the Silverdale case is now over and Benjamin Mengi is now the lawful owner of the farm." That was on 10th January that Miss Hermitage said
14 A. This is what my lawyers had as evidence for the case in 16 Q. Well, what do you think? 17 A. In respect of what? 18 Q. I am sorry? 19 A. In respect of what? I don't understand. 20 Q. What is your view about this? Do you think that that is 21 22 23 25
evidence of a conspiracy between Mr. Manji and Miss Hermitage as a result of which she published a number of defamatory communications concerning you? led her to defame me or not. This is a connection which we
24 A. I don't think it is a result of. I do not know whether this
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MENGI-PRICE that. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. Page 344: "Yousef, this is part of an e-mail I received today. It may be of use to Rosdan." This is from an e-mail sent to Sarah from Tanzania: "Yesterday I was visited by the Tanzanian investment chaps who knew me for your case, so promoting local investment." Then there are some rather unflattering remarks, I think, possibly about you -- "because everybody in the government is afraid of his brother". Then page 345 ---A. My Lord, there is a name I don't understand here, my Lord. It is the third line of the letter: "Yesterday, I was visited by...." Q. Sorry, which third line? A. See the first two, where it starts with B, I can say ---Q. Yes. That is part of an e-mail from somebody else that she is forwarding to Mr. Manji -- "this is part of an e-mail I received today". Yes? Over the page, page 345: "Dear Yousef, you and others might like to be aware of this letter below." Oh, I think that is just a copy of what we have already seen. Then there is a copy of an e-mail from Miss Hermitage to the International Finance Corporation. Then page 350, this is again Miss Hermitage to Mr. Manji: "Please find the following documents, Letter
MENGI-PRICE say was there between her and Mr. Manji. That is why ---MR. RAMPTON: My Lord, I hesitate to interrupt. Sorry, Mr. Mengi. It seems to me, perhaps, a false question, because the claim against Mr. Manji was not anything to do with conspiracy to defame on a website. It is all to do with e-mails. MR. PRICE: (To the witness) Well, how is any of that evidence of conspiracy to defame you in e-mails? A. That was the Dar Es Salaam case. The defendant was not a defendant in that case.
11 Q. Do you think that it is in any way evidence of a conspiracy? 12 A. I say I was advised, so I took my lawyer's advice. 13 Q. If we look at the heading on all these e-mails -- and perhaps 14 15 16
go back to page 339, where it is very clear, but they all carry the same heading -- do you see at the top it says Sabas Kewango?
17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And it says "from Yousef Manji"? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. "To Sabas Kewango"? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. "Importance high, FYI" -- for your information; and he 23 24
encloses, Mr. Manji does, to Mr. Kewango, the e-mail to him from Sarah. Is that right?
25 A. I didn't get you. I don't get you. I don't understand your
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1 2
MENGI-PRICE question.
3 Q. Are you on page 339? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Do you see at the top ---6 A. I see Sabas Kewango, yes. 7 Q. Mr. Manji forwards to Mr. Kewango the e-mail he has received 8 from Miss Hermitage. That is what is happening here, is it 9 not? 10 A. I feel it has been forwarded by Manji to Kewango. 11 Q. Yes, it has. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And all of them, it is the same; each of them has been 14 forwarded by Mr. Manji to Mr. Kewango for his information? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Who is Mr. Kewango? 17 A. Kewango was, once upon a time, a lawyer of Manji. 18 Q. He was at that time Mr. Manji's lawyer, was he not? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How did you get these documents? 21 A. He was, once upon a time, Manji's lawyer. 22 Q. He was Manji's lawyer at the time that Mr. Manji forwarded him 23 these documents; that is why he forwarded them to him. Is
MENGI-PRICE 2 A. So what? So what? 3 Q. You obtained these documents? 4 A. I say I did not. My lawyers picked up what evidence to
1 5 6
address our concern. So, how my lawyer got those e-mails, I
don't know. 7 Q. You see, Mr. Kewango stopped being Mr. Manji's lawyer, did he 8 not?
9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And then he printed off these documents and gave them to you 11 or, possibly, to your lawyers? 12 A. That is speculation. 13 Q. No, it is not. It is quite clear from the document. 14 A. That is speculation. 15 Q. You know perfectly well that it would be the grossest breach 16 of legal professional privilege for him to do that? 17 A. You are telling me something new. I am saying I don't know 18 how my lawyers got these documents, whatever way they did. I 19 cannot answer for my lawyers. 20 Q. You know quite well where your lawyers got these from; there 21 is only one place they could have got them from? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. Well, where do you think they got them from? 24 A. I never thought about it. 25 Q. Well, would you like to ask them?
that not right? 25 A. I can't remember the dates.

24
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MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. Well, it is pretty obvious, is it not, Mr. Mengi? Mr. Manji 3 is forwarding these documents to his lawyer. Do you
1
1 2
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MENGI-PRICE A. Yes. 3 Q. In due course, perhaps you would let us know. Now would you 4 go to page 372. Quality Group Limited is Mr. Manji's company, 5 is it not? 6 A. I presume so. 7 Q. Well, do you know or do you not know? 8 A. He runs the company, but that was not evidence that it is his 9 company. If I don't say (inaudible) running the company, 10 automatically it is his company. I don't know that he 11 (inaudible). I don't know whether he is a shareholder, how 12 many shares. I don't know who owns Quality Group. I cannot 13 tell you the owner. 14 Q. Who is the Chief Executive of Quality Group? 15 A. Mr. Manji. 16 Q. Mr. Manji? 17 A. But it does not mean that he is the owner. Managers are not 18 owners all of the time. 19 Q. Mr. Manji is one of the biggest businessmen in Tanzania, is he 20 not? 21 A. Your opinion. 22 Q. I am asking questions. I am not expressing opinions. 23 A. I don't know how you measure the biggest or the smallest. 24 Q. Just let us look at the document. The first of them has 25 25,000 US dollars ----
understand that? That is what is happening? 5 A. So you say. 6 Q. Well, what do you say? You are giving evidence. 7 A. Yes. I am saying they are forwarded to Kewango, and then so
4
what? 9 Q. Mr. Kewango has printed them off, has he not? That is why it 10 says "Sabas Kewango" at the top?
8 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. How did you come by them, Mr. Mengi? 13 A. I have lawyers, I have investigators who look into my 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
problems. But this did not even start with him. The evidence came from another source. Q. Mr. Kewango gave them to you, did he not? A. I don't go around picking documents. My lawyers do the job. Q. Well, what did you go to your lawyers complaining about? A. Because somebody got a tip that something was happening and they investigated. Q. You knew perfectly well -- look at page 339. A. Yes. Q. You know quite well, when it says at the top of the page "Sabas Kewango", that is the clearest possible indication that it was printed by Mr. Kewango?
[37] (Pages 144 to 147)

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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. -- being cashed towards "payment of expenses of Middleton for 4 dispute with Reginald Mengi as per the attached approval of
1
Chief Executive Officer"? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. It is a pretty convenient way of expressing it, is it not? 8 A. You say it.
5 9 Q. It is quite obvious that this document is a forgery, is it 10
not, Mr. Mengi?
11 A. My Lord, that is your speculation, that is your views. You 12 cannot make me believe things which you in your mind think. 13 Q. It is nothing to do with me, Mr. Mengi. I am just asking you 14 questions. 15 A. My Lord, my Lord, I say I don't know. I don't know whether it 16 is forged or not. 17 Q. Let us think about the good sense of this. If you are a well 18 known business man in Tanzania and the Chief Executive of a 19 20 21
big company like Quality Group, and you want 25,000 US dollars for a bribe to Mr. Middleton for having a dispute with you,
would you put all that conveniently on the voucher? 22 A. I don't know. For me, I don't think -- that is a corruption. 23 I didn't even know what to put in, because I don't go that way. 25 Q. The next one is 30,000 dollars, being cash paid towards
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MENGI-PRICE A. Yes. Q. What is Jamii Forums, please? A. It is a local blog in Tanzania. It is a blog. Jamii Forums, Jamii means community. Q. Do you have anything to do with the Jamii Forums blog? A. No. Q. Nothing at all? A. No. Q. Have you ever financed it? A. Never. Q. But it is a forum on which people post important press releases and announcements of various kinds? A. Jamii Forum? Q. Yes. A. No. I just go to it, like other people. I don't know. There is one section which I look at all the time called Siasa, meaning current affairs in politics. I don't visit the other sections of the Jamii Forum. Q. Well, you will see that at the top it is dated 19th November 2010? A. Yes. Q. "The following is the statement by Mr. Reginald Mengi's attorney, Mr. Mike Ngolo"? A. Yes.
[Page 149]
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[Page 151]
MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. You must have approved this posting and approved it being 3 posted?
1 4 A. I did not approve it. There are two postings. This one, the 5 other one, which is I think after this one, I didn't approve. 6 Q. You must have approved it, because your lawyer who is acting 7 for you in the case against Mr. Manji would hardly do this
MENGI-PRICE "expenses of Stuart Middleton dispute with Reginald Mengi". It is pretty obvious that these are forgeries, is it not, Mr. Mengi? A. Listen, I don't give bribes, I don't take bribes. I don't know how they conduct their corruption business. So, I cannot help you. Q. Well, have you no opinion on the matter? You just do not know; is that your evidence? A. I believe my lawyers, I believe the people who did the investigation, and I believe them. Otherwise, I would not have signed that. Q. I will not ask them what advice they gave to you, because that is privileged. Now, perhaps, I could ask you to take file 1.2 -- you can put 5.2 away -- and if you would go to tab D. A. File? Q. File 1.2. That is the little file, I think. I think it is the one by your left hand. Look towards me. I think that may be it. Tab D. A. One second, please. (Pause) Q. Page 212. A. Yes. Q. You see that this is an e-mail which was -- I am sorry, it is not an e-mail at all. It is a posting on a website called Jamii Forums?
without your approval, Mr. Mengi? 9 A. Well, can I say again, I never, never approved it. 10 Q. So, Mr. Ngolo just decided off his own bat to put this on to 11 the ---8 12 A. Whatever he did, I never approved this one. 13 Q. Would you have approved it if he had asked you? 14 A. I don't even know all the details, but I have never approved
it. 16 Q. Would you have approved it if he had asked you? 17 A. If he ask me for approval, I will go line by line to see 18 whether it is okay or not.
15 19 Q. Let us look at page 213, at the top of the page: "The smear 20 campaign by Sarah Hermitage against Reginald Mengi", and then 21 22
he sets out an account of what he describes as a smear campaign.
23 A. Can I just -- I see something. Can I just read one section 24 here, please? 25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, please do. (Pause)
[38] (Pages 148 to 151)

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MENGI-PRICE THE WITNESS: My Lord, if I had seen this before it went out, there are some remarks where he says, the paragraph which says, "Earlier this year, Reginald Mengi", just under the phrase, the second line says, "Yousef Manji, a business competitor, as well as political" -- I would never let that go, because I have never been a competitor of this man, both political and otherwise. That one would never have gone through. We don't compete in business. We are not in politics. We are in business. So, I don't know why they put this in. I would not allow this to go out. have you not, Mr. Mengi? corruption I will fight it. I don't fight Manji as an individual. I attack the vice which has ruined my country, which has made our people poor. corruption, as you say he is? more uplifted, higher than corruption, because of the harm he has done to my country. Mengi files a civil case". Do you see that, in the middle of the page? "Earlier this year" -- this is your lawyer,
MENGI-PRICE 2 Q. I am sorry? 3 A. Was she a defendant in that case? 4 Q. The question I am asking you is why, since this, if true -1 5 6 7
and if it is irrefutable evidence, it is true -- since it is the best possible evidence of malice, why was it not used in
this lawsuit? 8 A. In deciding whether there was malice or not, my Lord, in my 9 opinion, it would not depend on just one item. There are
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other items which would try to show that there was malice.
12 MR. PRICE: But you and Mr. Manji have clashed on many occasions, 14 A. I fight corruption. Whether it is Manji or Mengi, if it is
11 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Could you please answer counsel's question, 12 Mr. Mengi? Put it again, Mr. Price. 13 MR. PRICE: If you have irrefutable evidence that Miss Hermitage 14 was paid to circulate these libels against you, why did you
not put it forward in this case as evidence of malice? 16 A. My Lord, whatever was put in was done in consultation with my 17 lawyers.
15 18 Q. So, are you saying that that was done on legal advice? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Well, what I am suggesting to you is that the reason it was 21 22 23 24
18 Q. Mr. Manji would emphatically deny that he is a shark of 20 A. Actually, I would like to get a better word for him, something
done -- I am not asking you to say anything about the legal advice that you received -- but the reason why you did not put it forward is because you knew that it would not stand up for
23 Q. Just look at what it says under the cross heading "Reginald
examination in court? 25 A. My Lord, the reason I withdrew the case is because I was
[Page 153]
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[Page 155]
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MENGI-PRICE Mr. Ngolo, writing this; yes? A. Yes. Q. "Mr. Reginald Mengi obtained irrefutable evidence that the smear campaign being waged by Sarah Hermitage was actually being masterminded and financed by Yousef Manji." A. Yes. Q. Why was not the irrefutable evidence pleaded in this case, Mr. Mengi? A. My Lord, I am not a lawyer. I don't go to court. I don't know how lawyers go about filing cases. I don't know what is supposed to be delivered as filed immediately or later on as evidence. I don't know. Q. Well, you understand, do you not, that your case here may depend on your being able to prove malice against Miss Hermitage? A. Yes. Q. And if you were able to prove irrefutably that Miss Hermitage had been paid to circulate the libels that you sue on by one of your business rivals, that could hardly be better evidence of malice; you understand that? A. Yes. Q. Well, would you explain then why this was not put forward as evidence of malice in this case? A. Middleton in Tanzania was not a defendant, was she?
MENGI-PRICE worried about parallel proceedings and I had to choose which case to continue with, and the most important case was this one. Q. This has got nothing to do with parallel proceedings. Just pause a moment, Mr. Mengi, if you would. I do not want to interrupt you, but it is important that you should understand the question. You can pursue your action against Mr. Manji in Tanzania, that is fine; you can pursue your action against Miss Hermitage in this jurisdiction. There is no reason at all, if you have evidence of malice against Miss Hermitage, why you should not put it forward in England. You understand that? A. I understand. Q. Why did you not put it forward? A. I said under the advice of my lawyer. Q. And I say -- I am not asking you what the advice was -- that the reason you decided not to put it forward is because it would not bear examination in a court of law? A. It is not true. Q. Well, you tell us what your reason for making the decision was then, Mr. Mengi? A. I made a decision on the advice of my lawyer. Q. I am not asking for what advice you were given, but what I am asking you is why you decided not to use it in this lawsuit?
[39] (Pages 152 to 155)

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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. I say advice from my lawyer. 3 Q. And I say that the reason you decided not to use it is because 4 you knew it would not stand up for examination in a court of
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law? 6 A. That is your opinion. 7 Q. Is it true or false? 8 A. It is false.

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9 9 Q. Well, what was the reason? 10 10 A. I say advice from my lawyer. 11 Q. I am not asking you what the advice was. I am asking you your 11 12 12 reason ---13 13 A. You cannot segregate my position or my lawyers'. I did what
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I was advised to do. Q. Well, I have asked you the question three or four times now. I have given you every opportunity to answer it, and you have not answered it, Mr. Mengi. A. There is no better answer than I have given you. Q. I can accept that. You put up a similar posting on the web, did you not, and we see that at page 214, in which you said that -- this is just below the lower punch hole -- that you had started the case against Mr. Manji, accusing him of instigating and financing the smear campaign? A. Which paragraph, please? Q. Sorry?
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MENGI-PRICE liar and corrupt, and so forth. Q. However, you will agree, whether it is more defamatory or less defamatory, it is highly defamatory? A. If it is untrue, it will be. If it is untrue, yes. If it is ---Q. Highly defamatory? A. Should it be untrue. Q. If you turn over the page, four days later, this letter from Ms. Hermitage, which you now say that you did not receive. A. Yes, never received it. Q. That is the first we have heard of that. This letter has been in disclosure for weeks or months. A. My Lord, do you want me to say I have received it, when I have not received it? Q. This was exhibit 2 in the campaign of threats against you by Ms. Hermitage. A. I say, again, I am seeing this, I did not receive this letter before. Q. Now you say you never received it? A. I say I never received it. Q. However, you can see from it ---A. Can you allow me to read it? MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, please do. MR. PRICE: Just look at the first paragraph.
[Page 157]
MENGI-PRICE 2 A. Where are you referring to? 3 Q. Page 214, just below the lower punch hole: "However, due to 4 some information I have gathered" -- do you see that? Have
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[Page 159]
MENGI-PRICE MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Just read through it and then Mr. Price will ask you some questions. (Pause) THE WITNESS: Thank you, my Lord. MR. PRICE: You see that this was written four days after -- whether it was sent or not, it was written four days after the postings were put up that we have just been looking at. They were 19th November. If you look at page 214. Yes? A. Yes. Q. Also, 216. That is four days later? A. Yes. Q. It is quite clear what provoked that letter, is it not? A. Sorry. Q. It is quite clear what provoked that letter, is it not? A. I could not say. I do not know what provoked it. Anything can provoke someone to write. Q. It says in the first sentence, "I am aware of the material that you have recently released on the Internet." A. That does not say "provoked". It says, "I am aware...." Q. Well, my Lord will no doubt be in a position to judge. It is pointed out to me that in their written argument for the pre-trial review in this case, which was some time after the witness statements were served, your counsel relies on this letter that we are looking at as a threat by Ms. Hermitage?
you got the lower punch hole? A. Yes. Q. Just below that: "However, due to some information I have gathered"? A. Yes. Q. Have you got that? A. Yes. Q. "...I instigated a civil case against Mr. Manji, accusing him of instigating and financing this smear campaign." A. Yes. Q. What you are referring to is what you call the smear campaign by Miss Hermitage? A. Yes. Q. These are highly defamatory of Miss Hermitage, are they not? A. Not as defamatory as her postings. Q. You do not think so? A. No. Q. You think that it is not as defamatory to have accused her of accepting 55,000 dollars from Mr. Manji for conducting a smear campaign against you? A. I say it is not more defamatory than my case, being called a
[40] (Pages 156 to 159)

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MENGI-PRICE 2 A. That is news to me. 3 Q. Well, I have not yet had a chance to actually absorb the 4 learned advice of Mr. Eardley, but my suggestion to you is
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MENGI-PRICE engaged and has been engaged in a conspiracy with Mr. Manji to finance a smear campaign? A. According to evidence in Dar es Salaam, yes, my Lord. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: That is your case and, if you are right, why should you take it down? Yes. MR. PRICE: My Lord, that would be a convenient moment. MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes, it is. Mr. Price, doing the best you can, how long have you got to go tomorrow? Mr. Mengi tomorrow, but I doubt if I will tomorrow morning. witnesses here tomorrow or is it unlikely to be worth it? not tomorrow morning. For tomorrow afternoon, I think he has a number of witnesses. court. My Lord, it will be Mr. Nguma next and after him, Mr. Mauggo. When we reach them, I was hoping there was a glimpse of a chance that we might finish our evidence this week, but the speed at which Mr. Mengi has proceeded makes my heart sink. might be two days with the claimant. Obviously, the claimant is the post important witness on his side and I am not
that the Manji case was discontinued because you did not have the evidence to back it up. A. You are speculating. It was stopped because I did not want parallel proceedings in Tanzania and in London. Q. Well, I will come back ---A. I thought this case to be more important than the one in Dar es Salaam. Q. I will come back to it tomorrow because I do not want to cross-examine you on that advice before I have had a proper chance of considering it. The November 2010 e-mails are still up on the Internet, are they not? A. I have not checked that. I do not spend my time ---Q. Will you take it from me that the postings, the 19th November 2010 postings, are still available on the Internet? A. I will take it once I have gone back to the hotel and looked at it on the site. Q. What, you have not bordered to check? A. I am sorry? Q. You have not bothered to check? A. Whether they are on there or not? I am saying I going to read now. I cannot take your word as being right, I have to check.
10 MR. PRICE: Well, I certainly think I will finish cross-examining 12 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: All right. Should Mr. Rampton have any other 14 MR. PRICE: Well, it is quite difficult for me to tell. Certainly
17 MR. RAMPTON: I have witnesses here. I believe they are mostly in
23 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: I think Mr. Price said at the start that he
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1 MENGI-PRICE 2 altogether surprised. No doubt other witnesses would be 3 somewhat shorter. I just wanted to see what pen work I had to 4 do. 5 MR. PRICE: Some of them will be shorter. All of them will be 6 shorter, but some of them may be quite long, I am sorry to 7 have to tell your Lordship. 8 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: That is quite all right. Right. Now, 9 Mr. Mengi, just to remind you of what I said this morning; 10 until you are out of the witness box finally tomorrow, you 11 cannot talk to anybody about the case, including your lawyers, 12 and we will resume your evidence at 10.30 tomorrow. 13 (Adjourned till 10.30 tomorrow) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
MENGI-PRICE you should take them down, is it not, Mr. Mengi?
2 Q. If they are still up on the Internet, it is only right that 4 A. Why? 5 Q. Because they are highly defamatory of Ms. Hermitage and 6 8 9 11 12
because you have discontinued the action? the news within my media. That is a job, it will be, the editors will decide take it down or leave it. 19th November postings that we have just looked at is yours, nothing to do with your editor. It is yours and your lawyer.
7 A. I say this over and over again, that I have nothing to do with
10 Q. I beg your pardon, this is your press release. The
13 A. What is the difficulty about it? 14 Q. It accuses Ms. Hermitage of accepting money from Mr. Manji for 15 17 19 21
conducting a smear campaign against you. true, it is not defamatory. going to leave it there? general, but if it just a specific one, the answer is no.
16 A. I said something is defamatory if it is not true. If it is 18 Q. When you have checked, then, and if it is still there, are you 20 A. No, I am sorry, I thought there was some other news in 22 Q. No what? 23 A. It is not going to come down. 24 Q. It is not going to come down? 25 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: You say it is true, that the defendant is
[41] (Pages 160 to 163)

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PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 164] 86:25 87:16 arrest 46:9 article 39:11,12 40:17 41:11 43:7,21,23 44:20 48:3,8 49:12,18 63:12 63:14 88:2,5,24 92:22 99:13,13 99:16,18 102:15 102:22 116:22 117:2,6,8,12,15 117:17 122:24 articles 10:7 15:2 41:8,21,22 42:5 42:21 43:25 49:19 70:11 90:21,23 93:18 93:19,22 98:15 116:7,11,14,19 118:6,11,13,24 119:7 123:3 130:4,9,10,13 130:15 aside 77:6 asked 14:13 19:17 36:18,24 38:25 51:20 53:20 62:12,19 63:12 75:11 89:5 111:14 115:3 127:17 140:6 151:13,16 156:15 asking 22:3 26:14 26:14 27:8,8 30:14 35:6,6 49:18 68:19 76:13 93:7 97:16 101:9 103:10 127:19 131:25 132:2 147:22 148:13 154:4,21 155:17 155:24,25 156:11,11 aspects 25:19 assault 116:23 assertion 134:25 assigned 113:16 assignment 55:6 61:20,23 62:2 assistance 110:12 associate 16:22 associated 16:24 associates 59:19 assume 91:23 93:18 assurance 121:5 atmosphere 9:19 attached 148:4 attack 117:9 118:2 130:13,14 152:16 attacking 130:7 137:17 attacks 136:24 137:13 attempt 117:11 attempts 51:7,22 119:9 Attended 8:10 attention 35:18 37:13 40:10,12 97:20 134:22 136:18 attorney 150:24 audible 43:20 49:8 author 60:18,20 60:21 118:12,13 132:19 authored 123:20 130:8 authoring 130:14 authorities 55:5 61:20 authority 44:13 automatically 147:10 available 88:4 122:16 130:10 136:23 137:12 160:18 award 5:17,17 awards 5:14 aware 45:20 132:16 139:18 140:5 141:20 159:18,20 Aziz 139:18,20 B b 63:10,18 107:15 131:3,4,4 141:16 back 18:17 34:9 34:12 36:19,25 37:24 45:12,14 47:7 49:7 53:22 56:5,10 57:5 59:12 61:2,10 63:10,18 65:10 67:3 70:2 71:2 74:21 75:2 78:4 79:16 80:19 82:14 89:20 98:3 99:15 102:4,10 103:18 108:9 125:4,5
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
A abandoned 90:7,7 90:12 able 6:4 33:4 51:18 52:3,7,11 53:16 55:24 63:20 64:14,20 67:5 68:10 75:21 86:15 121:18 153:15 153:18 Abraham 44:16 44:17 absolutely 52:23 80:2 100:7 115:7 absorb 160:3 accept 69:20 70:17 71:15,19 72:7,14 77:3,8 81:18 88:12 156:19 accepted 76:21 accepting 69:10 157:23 161:14 accepts 12:22 access 30:15 75:13 accident 98:3 accord 59:19 account 4:21 11:23 125:25 151:21 accountant 2:25 33:8 accounts 30:15 32:17 accurate 11:23 accurately 74:17 126:8 accuse 98:19 accused 43:16 45:18 117:25 139:25 140:3 157:22 accuses 161:14 accusing 90:3,14 138:4 156:22 157:12 achieve 21:2 acquire 83:17 acquired 46:23 82:23 85:23 86:7 acquisition 49:11 act 51:17 78:3 110:7 acted 17:14 113:2 acting 108:23,25 109:12,23 110:23 114:6
115:2,11 119:3 151:6 action 85:19 87:23 91:21 105:5 106:15,16 106:18 118:25 119:2,11,12 120:19 122:22 135:14 138:7 142:2,5 155:8,9 161:6 actions 53:12,12 activities 4:21,24 5:24 103:5 activity 5:12 Acts 48:22 additional 136:20 additionally 58:2 address 1:21 146:5 addressed 12:5 13:23 16:16 97:13,14 Adjourned 85:3 163:13 adjournment 50:8 124:25 adjudicate 65:20 advice 18:17 19:9 19:20 20:3,12 100:22 106:13 106:15,22 107:19 108:14 108:17 109:14 143:12 149:13 154:18,22 155:16,17,23,24 156:2,10,11 160:4,13 advise 38:4 45:11 advised 18:18 38:6 48:23 143:12 156:14 advising 46:13 109:22 advocates 113:20 affairs 25:15 66:6 82:7 91:12 92:2 97:21 115:8 118:23 150:18 afford 98:6 afraid 141:10 afternoon 9:16 162:15 Agapitus 14:15 17:10 agency 48:13 ago 8:20 9:18 42:3 68:8 99:4 agree 51:21 56:14
67:22 72:4 81:19 95:20 118:23 158:3 agreed 18:8 38:16 50:22 51:15 53:13 55:3 80:15 81:3 83:5 84:9 86:14,16 120:4 agreement 49:11 53:11 67:19 75:20 76:11 83:19 102:23 agreements 81:5,5 81:17,23 82:3,4 82:7,22,23 83:4 83:5,14,17 84:4 84:10,20,23 agricultural 103:5 AIDAN 1:19 aim 48:23 AL 112:9 113:20 114:2 alert 33:15,17 alerted 33:19 allegation 44:14 117:19,19 137:25 138:17 allegations 88:4 88:11 99:17 142:12 alleged 87:21 allow 38:17 42:10 57:23 100:13 104:21 105:16 152:11 158:23 allowed 116:3 117:17 ALN 14:7,13 alternative 56:13 altogether 163:2 amends 133:5 amicable 41:24 45:7,9 46:11,23 47:5,7 amicably 37:3 38:7,11 55:25 57:5 amount 9:23 73:13,13 124:3 Andrew 8:10 14:25 70:10 140:6,8 and/or 16:23 announced 140:23 announcements 150:13 answer 49:15 62:19 63:2
68:18 83:3 100:23 106:24 117:14 118:22 119:6 120:15 121:6,22 127:7 146:19 154:11 156:16,18 161:21 answered 156:17 anti-foreign 93:4 anxious 74:10 anybody 34:24 66:6 79:13,17 122:3 163:11 apart 44:3 91:6 apology 115:22 133:5 apparently 82:17 95:2 appear 69:10 87:11 132:19 appeared 1:19,21 9:25 39:4,13,22 43:7 47:20 93:22 97:10 appearing 88:21 140:9 appears 44:10 90:22 100:14 101:3 135:9 apply 135:9 appointed 29:14 appoints 65:7,10 118:8,14,17 appreciate 25:21 appreciated 13:4 appropriate 66:18 approval 148:4 151:8,17 approve 151:4,5 approved 48:21 151:2,2,6,9,12 151:13,14,16 Approximately 28:18 April 14:20 69:25 70:7 103:19 108:11 116:21 area 6:15 88:15 areas 101:24 argument 159:22 armed 116:23 arraigned 102:13 arrange 50:20 arranged 9:3,4,5 9:6,9 22:4 98:8 arrangement 37:18 arrangements 119:17,21 arrears
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MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 165] 46:19 89:20 99:15 businessmen 147:19 busy 28:5 C c 1:23 54:22,22 75:2 108:10 125:5 call 1:2 5:24 7:22 36:14 111:17 137:15 139:16 157:15 called 2:19 3:11 4:4,10 8:2 11:12 14:24 24:18 66:17 70:9 118:10 149:24 150:17 157:25 calling 6:10 calls 58:20 campaign 16:6 18:5 93:25 98:14 100:9 114:19,24 116:10 121:24 128:14 136:25 138:2,17,18 139:3 151:20,22 153:5 156:23 157:13,15,24 158:16 161:15 162:3 campaigning 5:24 capacity 106:7 107:25 108:3,5 care 31:8 94:3 carefully 122:7 carry 30:22 32:11 58:25 80:17 87:14 143:15 carrying 32:8 Carter-Ruck 1:21 20:5 case 2:7 7:12 14:17 16:24 17:4 18:18 20:8 20:16,23,24 43:16 50:3 55:2 59:13,17 62:8 68:9 72:25 75:6 75:8,14 81:4 84:9 86:9 95:5 101:11,24 103:6 104:24 105:13 111:20 118:18 123:16,19,21,21 132:17 138:8,8 138:11,13 140:23 141:7 142:14 143:9,10 151:7 152:24 153:8,14,24 154:3,15,25 155:3,3 156:22 157:12,25 159:23 160:5,10 162:5 163:11 cases 54:24 55:18 55:19 72:19 153:11 cash 148:25 cashed 148:3 catch 96:12 caused 104:17 133:21 135:10 causes 73:9,14,15 cease 15:4 70:4,12 104:16 Centre 48:16,20 certain 48:24 63:6 67:17,21 93:4 certainly 33:15 62:7,7,20,20,22 63:2,2,8 86:6 88:13 122:22 124:4 162:10,14 chair 1:7 chairman 27:4 28:13,15 29:4 71:5 108:2 130:24 chairmanship 53:17 57:23 challenge 83:3 chance 56:5 58:7 160:3,14 162:20 Chancery 1:16 change 43:24 chaps 141:7 character 5:20 118:24 charge 44:14 79:20 charged 45:19 46:21 charges 43:18 48:7,18,19 53:9 55:8 56:9,24 58:5 78:11,18 79:4 81:11 84:15 85:10,21 86:12 90:25 91:25 92:3 99:18,19 100:3 100:3 103:11 118:17 charitable 4:24 5:8 chartered 33:8 check
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
127:16 128:18 132:10 138:13 143:14 160:6,9 160:12,19 background 6:3 bad 16:10 47:10 61:6 105:25 bail 43:16 Bank 15:24 135:16 136:11 bankrupt 124:4 bare 125:18 BARNES 1:20 based 6:6 basically 138:5 basis 134:24 bat 151:10 BEAN 1:6 1:4 4:12 11:13 18:25 19:3,5,10 19:23 20:2 21:11,14 38:25 49:14,24 50:7,9 58:24 68:18 76:9 80:4,7,17 83:11 84:25 92:18 95:2,5 96:19,21 100:24 102:7 111:25 124:20,24 125:2 126:6 128:3 130:5 131:24 134:2 139:11 142:6 151:25 154:11 158:24 159:2 161:25 162:5,8,12,23 163:8 bear 116:5 155:19 bears 52:20 becoming 92:18 beg 23:15 38:8 88:3 161:10 begged 118:16 beginning 1:10 64:19 behalf 109:23 114:14 134:25 136:13 behaviour 6:20 15:25 16:3 103:13 128:11 belief 6:7 66:11 believe 2:3 6:7 53:5 59:24 60:10 64:24 70:21 85:15 92:5 110:2 148:12 149:10 149:10,11
162:17 believed 61:7 71:12 belong 45:20 46:7 belongs 104:25 Ben 12:12,15,19 42:2 53:15 58:2 58:7 62:7,9 BENCH 1:1 Benjamin 6:12,18 17:15 36:17,18 37:7 38:10 41:23 42:5 44:17 46:9 52:25 53:21 54:24 55:2,4 56:8 57:2,23,25 58:11 59:3,6 60:2 77:11 79:18 80:8,21 81:3,16 82:2,22 83:4 84:8 90:11 102:15,18 103:9 108:23,25 109:11,12 110:5 110:9 112:16 115:2,12 125:15 140:24 best 65:14 122:4 123:24 154:6 162:8 better 19:10,23 31:19 41:16 95:3,4 106:23 135:20 152:20 153:20 156:18 biassed 100:9 big 4:17 25:4 33:17,20 123:21 148:19 biggest 147:19,23 Bishop 135:16 136:11 bit 24:16 33:9 131:6 blackmail 16:11 blackmailing 129:4 blindly 73:2 blog 132:17 150:4 150:4,6 board 15:22 28:2 28:15 29:8,15 body 28:5 Bonite 3:11 22:8 23:3,6 25:18 border 22:18,23 bordered 160:21 bored 31:6 bother 40:24 bothered
91:6 160:23 Bottlers 22:8 23:3 bottling 3:7,9,11 7:17 25:18 bottom 16:18 54:22 125:16 132:15 box 1:8 49:16 163:10 brains 101:13 branch 48:22 86:23 breach 120:13 146:15 breaching 122:25 break 30:18 49:25 84:25 98:12 124:22 breaking 122:25 Breed 1:19 bribe 148:20 bribes 149:5,5 briefly 8:7 119:15 bring 40:11 51:18 52:18,20 56:15 58:10 78:14,17 81:21,21 82:5 82:13,14,15 129:4 bringing 55:8 56:21 57:19 81:11 British 8:10 16:4 43:14,14 48:17 60:13 64:9,10 66:2 89:6 92:25 98:8 102:12,13 117:10 128:12 Briton 48:7 broadcast 125:11 125:20,25,25 126:19 127:10 127:14,21,22 128:4 131:22 132:8 brother 6:12,18 6:19 7:18,22,23 8:3 10:20 17:15 36:17,21,22 37:7,16,18 38:13 39:14 41:13 42:10,21 43:3 44:3,19,20 46:14 47:2,9,13 47:15 51:8,9,20 51:21,23 52:2 53:10 55:7,9,17 66:4,7,7 74:15 77:11,25 78:9
78:18 79:3,10 79:18 80:15,21 81:10,24 82:17 82:24 83:2,18 85:22 86:2,5,9 86:18 89:7 90:10,25 93:9 100:9,12,21 101:20 103:9 105:13,14,15 109:23 110:23 111:20 112:16 114:7 119:3,8 122:4 123:24 124:13 141:10 brothers 38:2 brother's 10:24 16:7 43:2 45:23 45:25 46:22 53:12 89:23 92:16 124:14 128:15 brought 17:22 40:10 53:10 78:19 84:15 85:22 134:21 brushed 77:6 building 22:5 24:6 24:9 34:16 112:10 114:2 bundle 61:11,13 107:12 bundles 61:13 bush 90:12 business 3:7,9,21 4:6 5:17,23 6:20 6:24 7:2,13,17 7:18 15:23 22:5 22:8 23:4,21 24:3,11 25:19 27:6,17 33:23 34:2,3,10,11 35:16,20 37:23 38:2 40:20 44:5 46:15 52:2 66:9 110:18 113:11 113:19,22 114:5 140:8 148:18 149:6 152:5,9 152:10 153:20 businesses 3:13 25:10,15 28:7 30:16 33:3,21 36:22,23 37:19 37:25,25 38:3,3 38:18 39:2,4,4 39:10 42:11,12 42:14 43:4 44:9 47:14 86:3 businessman
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 166] 114:13 122:7 160:14 consist 26:2 consistent 45:2 conspiracy 18:3 138:18 139:3 142:10,21 143:5 143:8,11 162:2 conspired 18:2,5 137:25 conspiring 45:19 constitute 2:7 consultation 25:23 154:16 consulted 18:16 contact 88:5 contacted 35:24 89:3 contacting 36:8 36:13 contacts 37:12 contains 17:7 133:2 content 43:25,25 45:24 55:14 66:9 67:2 68:10 69:5,9 70:24 85:13,20 89:10 92:14 98:11,17 116:5 132:24 contentious 95:2 contents 83:11 104:13 128:4 132:14 context 6:19 continue 16:2,21 116:3 118:24 128:10,23 129:15 155:3 continuing 92:3 123:12 129:24 129:25 contract 44:15 45:19 46:22 47:10 49:6 52:13 55:8,9 85:22 86:6 90:20 99:20 contracts 84:11 contrary 43:16 52:14 contribution 86:25 contributions 87:4,8,19,22 control 31:4 85:13 117:5 118:7,7 130:19,20 controlled 137:2 controller 31:2,2 31:7 32:18 33:14 Controversy 116:23 convenient 1:2,7 148:7 162:7 conveniently 148:21 conversation 10:9 10:17 38:19 42:2,7 55:16 77:16,24 80:9 84:4 cook 33:24 cooperative 74:11 89:21 Coopers 3:4 copied 12:3,5 99:11 copies 98:15 copy 96:17 97:19 134:8 141:21,22 corner 14:7 60:13 corporate 14:14 17:11 70:14 71:7 97:23,23 110:6,12,20 115:10 116:3 Corporation 15:25 141:23 corporations 33:23 correct 1:21 2:5 correction 41:5 correspondence 114:14 corrupt 137:15 158:2 corruption 5:25 16:24 139:25 148:22 149:6 152:14,15,19,21 costs 10:23 72:20 73:11 74:15 124:4 129:12 133:6 Council 15:24 counsel 14:14 17:11 38:25 49:18 70:14 71:7 80:8 97:24 106:9,10 108:23 110:6,20 113:3 115:10 116:3 159:24 counsel's 49:15 68:18 154:11 count 34:4 country 152:16,22 counts 34:4 couple
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
27:25 41:4 160:21,23,25 checked 160:16 161:18 cheque 43:13 44:7 48:18 53:11 99:19 Cherer 1:15 chief 14:14 15:21 32:17 70:13 106:9,10 110:6 115:10 116:2 147:14 148:5,18 child 105:16 choose 155:2 chose 138:9,10 circulate 142:11 153:19 154:14 circumstances 90:18 citizen 66:2 civil 152:24 157:12 claim 1:1 18:8 19:20,22 136:21 138:14 143:4 claimant 1:10,19 162:24,24 claimed 92:25 claiming 18:2,2 103:6 claims 132:11 clashed 152:12 clear 12:23 21:3 53:9 79:22 83:16 108:2 110:11 119:4 126:18,18 127:9 127:12 128:3 143:14 146:13 159:13,15 clearest 120:7 145:24 clearly 19:18 84:3 client 133:3,7,9 135:8 136:20,23 137:2 client's 134:25 135:3 clip 20:11 close 6:17,20,21 22:21 57:9 102:5 closely 105:13 clue 27:9 28:8,9 81:6 82:25 84:19 96:3 112:16 coast 22:15 Coca 128:7
131:19 Coca-Cola 15:22 132:22,24 133:10,19 134:10,17 135:5 135:11,13,15 136:3,10 coffee 89:20 90:4 90:17 92:25 99:15 Cola 128:7 131:19 collected 87:21 collecting 87:8 come 11:14 25:22 33:24 36:10,10 45:14 47:7 57:10,22 58:18 62:9 78:4,22 79:16,24 81:12 81:13 92:21 94:14 108:9 138:9 145:12 160:9,12 161:23 161:24 comes 6:20 42:14 48:12 98:3 100:11 coming 35:13 67:3 72:16 110:5,8 127:15 136:5 commence 131:12 132:11 commenced 138:20 139:3 commencing 131:15 comment 63:15 80:5 84:18 88:4 97:15 commissioner 8:11,23 9:4,6 11:18 12:3 16:5 38:15 39:6,7 42:16,17 43:6 50:15 51:11 52:3 60:14 64:9 64:10,24 66:2 74:7 78:2 79:8,9 89:6 98:8 128:13 commitment 62:17 committed 103:7 Committee 5:18 common 68:23 83:16 94:2 commonsense 52:20 Commonwealth 15:23,23 communicate
16:21 97:6 communications 138:6 142:23 community 35:16 98:6 150:5 companies 7:4 23:11 25:23 30:22 31:6,8,10 31:23 32:11,25 106:11 130:21 company 4:5 7:17 15:22 23:5,7 25:21 27:3 30:7 30:23 31:9 32:17 33:5 34:8 87:4,6 89:23 90:9 93:8 104:3 106:5,10 112:9 112:14 113:20 114:3 118:8 128:7 130:23 131:19 132:25 133:10,20 135:6 136:10 147:4,8 147:9,9,10 148:19 compare 118:5 123:16 comparing 118:6 compensation 16:7 128:15 129:5,6 compete 152:9 competitor 152:6 152:7 complain 132:21 134:5,8 135:11 135:13 136:3,6 136:7 137:16 138:7 complained 10:5 53:10 54:23 55:2,5 61:19 63:9,10 115:9 124:6 133:23 135:15 complaining 66:4 98:14 109:15 123:14 145:18 complains 93:24 134:4 135:8 complaint 14:4 46:22 78:10 79:19 81:10 99:5,7,7 101:18 133:19 135:3 138:14,20 complaints 87:3 120:7 complete 142:4 completely
114:13 complicated 19:13 complied 66:23 134:9 135:2 compromise 122:4 123:25 compromising 12:20 concern 66:13 98:9 133:9 134:16 146:5 concerned 6:14 9:12 43:21 44:2 44:24 55:13 60:18 86:11 88:20 93:3 98:15 99:3,9 101:19 103:2 122:15 133:11 133:21 concerning 66:4 142:23 concerns 59:12,16 concluded 50:5 condition 80:14 conditions 12:17 12:20 38:17 39:9 42:19 51:12 62:15,23 62:24,25 63:6 82:18 conduct 4:22 105:3 140:13 149:6 conducting 157:23 161:15 conference 27:15 27:15,17,22,23 28:2 113:13 confined 7:12 confirm 132:20 confirming 63:19 conflict 114:10 125:14,14 connection 112:15 127:15,18,19 142:25 consequences 110:2 consequently 79:20 consider 21:13 86:15 101:15 129:22 considerable 31:12 33:8 considerably 100:2 considered 108:14 considering
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 167] 52:17 58:7 78:23 83:22 86:3,8 discussed 51:17 58:23 discussion 12:13 12:15 35:16 47:7 57:11,22 72:14,15 77:17 discussions 20:17 81:2 82:18 dishonesty 99:17 dismissed 91:2,25 103:11 disproportional... 125:24 disproportionate 125:21 dispute 6:10 7:9 7:11,18 8:4 9:13 9:25 14:6 17:15 35:13 36:8 37:5 37:17 38:12 39:12,13 41:9 41:24 45:7,10 45:22 50:17 51:15 52:4,6 55:25 56:7,18 57:20,21 63:11 73:12 74:15 75:10 78:5,24 92:16 108:23 109:13,16,24 110:7,24 119:3 148:4,20 149:2 disputes 38:10 65:20 disregard 94:2 distance 38:2 distracted 74:3 distressed 73:22 74:6 distributed 132:25 District 20:17 22:5 24:11 117:9 divider 1:11 divides 28:6 division 1:1 29:6 doctors 113:14 document 95:3 99:8 138:4 142:9 146:13 147:24 148:9 documentation 75:17,19 76:10 76:22 77:6 documents 18:9 18:11 19:4,8 75:14 76:2 90:20 95:5 138:12 141:25 144:20,23 145:3 145:17 146:3,10 146:18 doing 28:5 38:5 43:15 52:14 87:2 88:24 110:5 112:19,24 113:16 124:5 140:8 162:8 dollars 147:25 148:19,25 157:23 door 34:23 doubt 95:15 125:22 126:6,7 159:21 162:11 163:2 Dr 7:25 10:17 13:12 35:24 36:2,12 37:12 68:20 71:9,10 drawn 37:13 112:8 drive 119:9 drop 56:9 Drum 5:16 due 147:3 157:3,7 dustbin 106:20 duty 66:15 94:2 E E 1:23,23 61:10 61:18 138:13 Eardley 1:19 19:9 20:4 160:4 Eardley's 20:12 earlier 16:20 102:23 104:6 109:8 152:4,25 early 11:5 13:3 35:14 earth 64:2 136:5 easier 43:9 edit 65:19 editor 10:12 13:15 45:24 55:13 71:6 85:13 88:22 89:2,12 91:17,19 92:6 93:9 94:10 95:22 97:11,14 97:19 99:4 102:21 104:13 104:18 115:9 116:2,4,4 117:7 117:18 122:2,14 130:4,8 137:17 137:18 140:11
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
8:13 9:22 16:14 course 70:19 73:22 122:7 139:17 147:3 court 1:1,16 6:9 20:18 21:4,7 43:14 48:7 55:2 72:19 94:19,23 111:22 112:4 128:24 130:15 137:21 140:13 142:3 153:10 154:24 155:19 156:4 162:18 courtesy 97:20 103:25 Courts 1:2 cover 8:6 72:20 74:14 coverage 9:24 10:5,11,13,14 10:17 14:4,5 41:22 63:11,19 63:21 64:14 66:4 67:15,17 67:22 68:2,7,25 69:12,15 93:25 covered 100:24 create 33:3,3 34:8 creative 34:7 criminal 44:11 52:22 55:19 56:24 85:10 criticism 105:7 crops 125:18 cross 100:17 116:6 130:22 152:23 cross-examine 160:13 CROSS-EXAM... 22:2 cross-examining 162:10 curiosity 123:11 current 100:3 150:18 currently 48:17 D D 1:23 11:16 54:25 59:12 70:3 80:19 93:12 103:20 111:18 149:15 149:19 daily 4:11,18 94:5 damage 104:17 122:15 140:8 damaged 94:8 damages 124:3
133:3 140:19 damaging 68:25 88:11 100:8 119:8 123:13 139:16 Dar 3:5 16:16 22:6,12,15 23:18 138:8,8 138:11 142:15 143:9 160:11 162:4 date 94:24 96:24 96:24 125:20 127:6 132:5 133:13 dated 12:4 13:22 14:20 15:20 16:15 97:10 107:17 108:10 111:24 150:20 dates 95:18 97:15 97:16 144:25 David 48:17 day 1:23 11:18 35:8,10 40:12 41:4 47:20 59:10 85:16 90:22 98:25 104:6,8 127:3 127:23 128:5 131:21 132:7 days 12:2 14:11 80:20 86:21,24 87:16 158:9 159:6,7,11 162:24 day-to-day 26:3 26:12 27:3 29:11,17 30:4 30:10 deal 25:19 27:3 31:23 50:12 54:13 66:8 97:24 98:4,17 109:14 dealing 31:9,9 109:10,22 114:14 deals 25:15 dealt 33:13 89:7 97:11 Dear 20:15 139:15 141:19 debt 87:23 December 8:7 9:2 9:16 12:5 14:24 43:17 48:6 87:20 91:2,25 93:24 111:24 138:21 139:3,8 decide
108:7 117:6 118:18 135:20 161:9 decided 3:15 121:15 151:10 155:18,25 156:3 deciding 154:8 decision 19:7 106:2,4,5 155:21,23 deducted 87:5 deeds 45:23 defamation 16:6 18:6 114:19 127:20 128:14 140:9,18 defamatory 63:12 63:13,19 68:25 69:16 74:13 98:14 104:16 117:2,12,15 118:24 132:16 133:6,8 134:7 142:11,22 157:18,19,22,25 158:3,4,4,7 161:5,16,17 defame 128:23 129:15,24,25 142:25 143:6,8 defaming 10:4 128:22 defence 142:4 defendant 1:12,21 9:11 128:21,21 143:9,10 153:25 154:3 161:25 defendants 43:18 139:4 defendant's 20:5 delay 135:22 delegate 23:10 31:4,7,24 33:4 34:8 40:22,22 40:23 delegated 32:19 32:24 98:5 delivered 153:12 demand 3:24 denied 43:18 121:15 deny 58:24 120:21 121:2,3,7,11 152:18 denying 63:19 department 25:13 26:2,10,15,20 26:22 departments 23:21,22 depend
118:4 153:15 154:9 depending 122:13 depends 5:11 describe 73:25 describes 151:21 description 103:3 deserving 115:22 desire 80:24,25 despite 88:4 destroyed 125:17 destroying 90:3 destructive 123:13 detail 12:24 31:21 134:3 details 7:14 15:25 16:23 26:18 31:19 37:9 50:19 52:19 53:7 73:2 77:23 84:6,17 86:8,14 91:5 151:14 develop 33:25 dialogue 54:19 55:23 diary 28:3 dictation 83:12 difference 123:21 different 33:9 68:14 113:15 differently 66:10 difficult 89:18 162:14 difficulty 161:13 digging 82:7 direct 136:18 directed 29:23 59:18 87:15 director 24:18 25:8 30:6,9 71:6 87:19 88:3 89:4 98:2 directors 29:2 118:8,14 dirty 138:2,17 disagree 81:19 disappointed 115:16 disaster 51:8 disclose 19:3 disclosed 18:22,25 19:5,6 disclosure 19:16 158:13 discontinue 18:14 discontinued 18:11 19:16 160:5 161:6 discover 100:7 discuss
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 168] 32:11 file 1:9 7:15 11:10 11:10,12,12,16 14:17 15:19 16:14 20:10,10 41:16 43:9,9,10 54:15,16 59:10 61:12,14 67:9 67:11 70:2,3 74:22,25 75:6,8 75:9,9,10,13 80:18 86:18 93:11,12 96:11 96:13,14 101:11 102:4,10 103:18 103:20 107:3 111:18 116:17 116:18 125:3 131:3,3 138:13 149:14,16,17,17 filed 101:3 103:5 111:22 112:8 153:12 files 54:17 103:19 152:24 filing 153:11 fill 3:18,20 final 83:23 finally 14:19 16:14 163:10 finance 15:24 98:2 141:23 162:3 financed 30:25 150:10 153:6 finances 31:8 financial 23:21 31:2,7 32:18 33:14 97:25 financing 138:5 156:23 157:13 find 1:7 28:5 43:8 49:15 54:16 56:21 64:18 78:4,14,23 79:18 82:10 91:6 106:18 111:5 122:24 139:7 141:25 fine 155:9 finish 37:22 122:21 162:10 162:20 finished 37:21 finishes 88:2 Fiona 89:22,23 90:9 firm 109:18,19 111:12,13,14 112:19,24 113:3 113:7,10,23 firmly 109:20 firms 112:8 first 1:11,11 7:22 10:10 12:11 13:2,16,25 17:17 33:25 38:15 39:8,12 41:17 42:12,18 43:10 45:15,18 53:15 62:19 78:22 79:18 80:12,14 82:12 94:9 96:6 107:21 111:7 112:15 131:4,6 134:3 139:8 141:16 142:3 147:24 158:12 158:25 159:18 firstly 6:17 five 23:25 28:21 flavour 93:5 floor 1:15 22:5 23:19 24:10,13 24:15,16,20,24 34:15 112:9 114:2 focus 91:23 follow 48:24 49:6 102:2 123:25 followed 124:18 following 59:10 108:12 128:5 141:25 150:23 follows 87:3 fool 64:12 70:17 force 36:21 44:23 forced 47:25 foreign 93:4 foreigner 103:2 forge 45:19 49:10 forged 44:15 47:11 52:13 53:11,22 61:24 62:3,4,4 84:4,11 86:6 95:5,6 148:16 forgeries 84:21 149:3 forgery 48:18 85:10 103:7 148:9 forging 46:22 55:8 57:3 79:4 79:20 85:22 99:19 form 56:15 62:9 83:20 formed 122:23 former 8:5 44:21
137:18 140:11 161:12 editorial 40:18 63:17 64:6,12 64:17 65:2,24 65:25 66:8,17 66:21 68:13 69:5,24 88:25 91:17 92:13,17 98:19 100:5 101:25 114:23 118:11 119:13 122:2,17 123:2 editors 55:14 63:15 64:7 66:20 100:16 104:25 105:3,5 105:7,9 117:5 117:16 118:12 118:18,20 119:2 120:7 123:19 124:16 130:7,13 130:17 137:16 161:9 education 5:4 effect 9:13 18:2 20:8 46:5 52:23 87:7 126:2 effectively 90:14 93:24 effort 81:21 efforts 55:4 81:9 88:4 either 81:19 90:23 101:25 email 1:17 125:8 126:23 127:4 emerged 96:16 emotional 74:4 emphatically 152:18 employed 26:7 31:5 100:13 113:17 employees 87:4,8 87:20,22 employer 87:5 emulate 90:10 enclose 134:8 enclosed 93:17 94:12 97:19 99:14 encloses 104:12 104:18 143:23 enclosures 131:15 ended 51:8 enforced 65:5 100:20 engaged 162:2,2 England 16:15
21:2 155:12 English 21:4 ensure 80:23 85:6 92:10 120:16 ensuring 66:23 entered 102:23 entirely 50:4 91:19 92:9 124:23 entirety 97:23 entitled 19:21 entrepreneur 33:2 entry 96:20 environment 5:6 equally 23:8 Eric 17:4 es 3:5 16:16 22:6 22:12,15 23:18 138:8,9,11 142:15 143:9 160:11 162:4 escalated 140:11 essentially 55:11 90:22 establish 3:15 established 3:7 4:6 estate 23:24 24:4 102:14 103:5 ethical 16:3 128:11 129:23 ethics 66:14,19 92:11 104:23 120:13 event 8:19 events 67:3 90:19 126:18 everybody 97:7 141:10 evidence 1:23 1:3 2:7 33:12 50:2,4 57:12 62:21 67:4 68:20 72:3 115:15 120:3 142:10,14,21 143:7,11 145:6 145:14 146:4 147:8 149:9 153:4,8,13,20 153:24 154:5,6 154:13,15 155:11 160:6 162:4,20 163:12 exact 9:18,23 54:10 exactly 4:15 19:19 29:10 57:21 60:3 67:16 68:24 74:12 examination
154:24 155:19 156:4 EXAMINED 1:6 example 5:16 65:8 118:16 Excellency 78:2 exchanged 138:21 139:4 exclamation 140:19 Executive 15:21 147:14 148:5,18 exhibit 158:16 expect 106:17,19 117:5 137:15 expectation 75:21 expected 101:12 102:8 expenses 148:3 149:2 experience 25:10 33:8 experienced 46:19 83:25 explain 52:9 55:17 57:17 64:9,22 64:23 75:21 77:18 153:23 explanation 76:17 77:7 expressed 55:24 98:9 expressing 147:22 148:7 extend 136:21 extent 4:7 5:10 extracted 135:5 extremely 46:19 119:7 Ezekiel 7:25 e-mail 140:16 141:4,5,17,18 141:22 143:23 144:7 149:23,24 e-mails 133:12,18 135:15 138:21 139:3 143:6,8 143:13 146:5 160:14 F face 77:13,13 100:11 faced 101:18 facilitate 78:22 facing 48:7,18 79:19 85:10,21 92:3 fact 14:21 50:3 55:5,7 61:19 101:9 140:5
factory 22:10 90:17 facts 2:4 99:13,16 factual 133:2 failed 87:21 failing 105:4 fair 10:4 11:23 38:22 73:25 116:11 fairly 67:17,21 fake 43:13 44:7 48:18 53:11 99:19 fall 56:4 falling 57:9 false 91:13,19 101:21 143:4 156:7,8 familiar 6:9 family 9:13 far 2:7 37:4 53:19 60:18 67:18 80:11 117:19 farm 6:10 9:24 16:24 17:15 35:13 43:15 45:19 46:6,23 49:11 52:13,23 53:22 56:10 57:2 82:23 83:6 83:17 85:23 86:7,24 87:15 88:15 89:22 90:4,8,10,11,15 90:20 91:14 93:2 102:20 119:9 134:19 137:19 138:6 140:25 142:12 farms 125:17,18 fast 81:13 fault 18:22 114:17 faulty 106:25 favour 61:21 100:9 February 92:22 94:6,13,16 95:20 97:10,18 99:5 116:22 feel 105:25 118:4 118:5 144:10 feels 94:8 118:4 felt 73:18 field 3:21 fight 39:9,9,9 44:9 44:10 47:13 152:14,15,15 fighting 47:18 fights 36:20 figures 30:21 32:8
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 169] happening 52:17 52:19 53:7 72:5 77:18 84:7,17 119:10 144:8 145:4,19 happens 113:14 113:14 happy 119:6,11 119:14,14 harassed 54:23 55:17 56:24 58:17 59:7,7 76:4 harassing 78:10 hard 90:3 harm 152:21 head 3:4 25:13 30:21,22 32:8 32:11 35:13 45:11 87:2 heading 143:13,15 152:23 headline 43:13 86:21 Headquarters 27:13 health 5:3 hear 60:2,9 82:19 heard 7:13 35:20 61:5 91:7 113:12 125:9,12 125:13,23 126:8 126:9 127:23 158:12 hearing 59:25 60:11 heart 162:22 help 8:4 57:8 78:4 79:11,14,17 80:7 82:9 149:7 helpful 49:14 107:3 Herman 142:2 Hermitage 1:12 6:11 11:7,9 13:15 14:22 15:20 18:6 21:8 91:8,22,24 99:3 99:11 111:21 114:20 115:8,19 116:14 117:20 121:10,23 124:3 125:10 126:19 127:3 129:11 131:9,21 132:8 137:13 139:9 140:17,22,25 141:23,24 142:11,21 144:8 151:20 153:5,16 153:18 154:13 155:10,11 157:16,18 158:10,17 159:25 161:5,14 Hermitage's 134:24 136:19 hesitate 143:3 high 1:1 8:10,23 9:4,6 11:18 12:3 16:5 39:5,6 42:16,17 43:6 50:15 51:11 52:3 60:13 64:9 64:10,24 66:2 74:7,8 78:2 79:8 79:9 89:6 98:8 111:22 112:4 116:23 117:8 128:13 143:22 higher 152:21 highly 46:17 68:25 100:8 118:24 123:13 157:18 158:4,7 161:5 hits 37:24 hold 27:25 95:19 139:15 hole 156:21 157:3 157:5 home 22:25 54:5 65:10 82:14 honest 69:20 71:16,20 72:7 honestly 32:10 37:8 honour 16:4 81:5 81:17 82:2 84:10 128:12 hope 21:2 55:24 74:25 hoped 51:20 hoping 51:20 162:19 hotel 160:19 hour 77:21,22 hours 9:22 28:21 28:22 54:8,13 77:21 house 1:15 8:8 39:7 47:3 56:21 72:16,17 houses 90:13 HQ10D04585 1:1 huge 33:16 Huldery 112:9 114:2 human 44:18 92:9 humane 101:18 hundred
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
56:4 forth 58:17 94:3 158:2 forthcoming 3:20 forum 150:12,14 150:19 Forums 149:25 150:3,4,6 forward 54:4 79:23 102:12 127:2 131:14 134:23 139:7 153:23 154:15 154:23 155:12 155:15,18 forwarded 108:12 121:17 144:10 144:14,22,23 145:7 forwarding 141:18 145:3 forwards 1:8 144:7 found 45:10 122:13 founded 2:12,15 78:19,20 four 13:22 14:11 70:8 104:16 125:14 135:17 135:22 136:22 156:15 158:9 159:6,7,11 fourth 16:18 framing 54:24 55:18 freedom 4:14 friend 44:21 45:12 47:15,16 53:16 58:19 107:2 109:21 110:12 110:16 122:4 123:24 friendly 9:20 54:19 55:23 friends 7:24 8:5 36:14,19,20 37:2,2 45:3,12 46:13 47:2,8 54:3 55:25 56:4 56:6,20 57:6,9 78:4 friendship 45:13 frightened 105:12 front 1:8 74:20 fulfil 62:25 fulfilled 12:21 62:16,24 63:6,7 full 1:19 52:14 84:14 92:15
99:12 fully 23:10 31:4,7 32:19 33:4 45:20 81:4,17 82:2 84:9 98:5 106:24 134:9 full-stop 91:18 92:7 function 65:4,21 66:15 fund 5:8 18:5 86:22 fundamental 122:25 funded 5:3 32:21 funeral 8:21 further 19:24 104:12 115:7 118:21 124:20 133:6,8 135:22 FYI 143:22 G G 1:23 gain 66:19 gang 116:24 gathered 157:4,8 general 6:17,20 17:11 35:6 161:21 generally 54:25 generous 72:22 genesis 50:11 genuine 93:2 genuinely 86:11 gesture 72:22 getting 18:16 47:13 98:24 107:19 give 1:3,19 2:23 2:24 15:16 31:4 47:4 53:22 56:10 57:17 62:17 70:15 71:3 73:8 103:25 106:13 118:21 119:5 120:13 121:5,24 129:4,19 149:5 given 4:21 5:14 57:19 58:3 71:10 86:21,23 101:3 120:21,23 120:25 121:13 125:25 155:24 156:16,18 gives 1:21 20:15 giving 50:2 61:13 109:13 145:6 glance 15:19 Glasgow 3:2
glimpse 162:20 go 19:10,23 28:15 29:15 32:17 33:10,24 34:9 34:11 35:19 36:19,25 41:4 41:17 45:12 47:2 48:6 49:7 54:3,22 56:5,12 59:11 63:10 64:7,18 67:9 70:3 74:21,25 75:2 79:22,25 80:18 86:18 89:13 92:14,21 98:24 102:4,10 102:11 103:18 103:19 105:6,14 107:4,11,15,22 108:10 110:8 111:18 112:7 113:10 116:9 117:7,7,17 124:21 125:4 127:2 133:16 134:23 138:13 139:7 143:14 145:17,18 147:4 148:23 149:15 150:16 151:17 152:7,11 153:10 153:11 162:9 God 109:2 goes 31:2 39:2 42:12 115:7 135:17 going 8:6 9:2 23:14,16 30:22 32:11 41:7 45:4 47:25 51:23 57:8,18 63:18 66:19 73:2 77:19 79:13,25 81:20 84:18 102:11 111:2 116:7,19 120:14 160:24 161:19 161:23,24 gold-mining 25:19 good 7:24 45:3,12 47:8 49:23 56:20 60:8,15 60:25 61:7 79:6 84:24 125:3 138:2 148:17 goodness 61:9 government 4:8 4:10 141:10 grant 21:7 grateful 132:20 grave
98:9 gritty 28:24 grossest 146:15 ground 100:24 grounds 66:13 group 15:3 32:22 70:11 94:5 147:4,12,14 148:19 grown-up 28:17 Guardian 2:17,19 9:25 13:16 14:8 15:16 23:24 24:4 25:8,18,24 25:25 26:7,9,10 26:13,15 27:4,6 30:8,11,24 31:13,17,22 32:2,7,12,20 33:12 34:5,7,9 39:18,22,23 40:13 47:20 48:6,12 63:11 71:5,6,8 89:4,20 95:16,22 96:2 96:23 97:11,19 97:22 99:18 104:19 107:21 107:22 108:2 114:14 116:15 118:14 Guardian's 26:2 H halfway 107:12 hall 27:15 Halo 139:16 hand 18:19 95:7 149:18 handed 104:25 handle 101:13,15 104:3 120:20 121:18 handled 107:21 handling 104:24 109:15 hands 72:17 89:11 Hang 88:2 Hansen 135:16 136:11 happen 45:4 53:25 77:19 81:20 104:22 happened 37:10 38:15 52:12 54:2 55:22 63:16 68:16 71:12 86:17 91:6 97:14,16 107:18 122:24 137:20
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 170] job 33:2 100:13 145:17 161:8 joint 6:24 7:2 jointly 112:8 joke 140:20 JONATHAN 1:20 journalist 45:25 journalistic 66:14 66:23 92:10 100:20 journalists 64:7 101:25 Joyce 24:18 judge 60:11 159:21 judgement 55:21 59:25 60:9 judges 65:7,8,10 65:10,11,12 judgment 21:4 140:13 July 7:16 20:4 35:23 102:12 jump 103:18 June 87:20 June/July 7:10 junior 97:6 jurisdiction 155:10 justice 1:1,2,6 1:4 4:12 5:17 11:13 18:25 19:3,5,10 19:23 20:2 21:11,14 38:25 49:14,24 50:7,9 58:24 68:18 76:9 80:4,7,17 80:23 83:11 84:25 85:7 86:11 92:18 95:2,5 96:19,21 100:24 102:7 111:25 124:20 124:24 125:2 126:6 128:3 130:5 131:24 134:2 139:11 142:6 151:25 154:11 158:24 159:2 161:25 162:5,8,12,23 163:8 K Kamendera 17:4 keep 27:7 28:3 35:5 37:20 38:2 39:3,4 65:23 66:25 77:17 92:5 127:19 140:18 keeper 29:24 45:25 53:12 124:14 Kenya 22:19 kept 64:5 Kewango 143:16 143:20,23 144:6 144:7,10,14,16 144:17 145:7,9 145:10,16,24,25 146:7 key 110:18 Kilimanjaro 6:15 22:21 86:23 87:15 kill 58:12 59:3 killed 59:22,22 Kimaro 7:25 35:24 36:2,11 36:12 37:12 kind 53:17 101:19 102:6 107:2 kinds 150:13 King 5:16 kitchen 33:10,24 knew 7:24 8:23 36:18,25 57:7 61:3 85:9,21 86:5,12 89:25 91:9 92:15 103:11,12 111:3 111:7 126:14 141:7 145:21 154:23 156:4 know 7:10,14 11:7 11:8 13:16 17:14 19:22 26:5,6,7,10,13 26:17,18,19,19 27:2,21 28:4,5 28:12,13,19,22 28:23 29:21,22 29:23,25 30:3,3 31:4,14,15,19 32:9,12 33:18 33:23 35:21 36:16 37:8,9,11 37:15,16 38:5 39:25 40:3 42:20 43:23 44:17 46:8 47:12 50:15 52:25 53:3,7,25 57:21,24 58:9 62:4,8,22,24 63:7,14,14 66:25 69:4 71:14 72:24 74:19 75:8,9,11 75:12 76:19
98:25 hundreds 73:8 98:25 104:6 hurt 91:20 116:23 117:23,24 118:5 118:5 husband 136:24 Hypothetical 53:23 I idea 27:10,11 28:6 28:20,21 34:5,7 56:12 81:23 83:8,9 118:5 128:3 ideas 33:25 36:23 identified 135:4 identify 33:3 IFC 135:15 ill 78:19 immediate 133:9 immediately 68:12 79:8 105:2 153:12 implied 12:21 Importance 143:22 important 6:4,8 23:3,5,7 30:24 40:10,20 41:5 138:11 150:12 155:3,7 160:10 162:25 impossible 110:25 114:10 inaccuracies 133:2 inaudible 7:13 12:21 23:10 29:14 30:16 33:9 39:15 40:23 41:4 57:16 59:23 62:16 63:15 65:25 85:25 88:7 97:7 98:12 101:6 102:13 109:18 110:8 114:22 120:14 124:8 127:6 147:9,11 including 5:16 50:3 128:7 163:11 incoming 104:4 inconceivable 109:20 110:22 indefinitely 128:23 129:16 independence
40:19 63:17 64:6,12 65:2,24 65:25 66:8,17 66:21 69:24 88:23,25 91:18 92:6,13,17 98:19 100:6 107:23 114:23 118:11 119:13 122:3 123:2 independent 2:17 3:24 4:2,16 66:21 105:10 116:4 118:19 indicate 131:11 indication 58:21 145:24 individual 100:11 152:16 individuals 16:3 128:11 132:25 industrial 23:24 24:4 information 7:12 84:6 85:24 93:10 134:11 135:23 136:2 143:22 144:14 157:4,7 informed 16:20 53:3 info@martenw... 1:17 initially 30:17 initials 97:4,7,8 injunction 21:7 133:9 innumerable 73:9 insinuated 70:18 inspection 90:13 instigated 157:12 instigating 156:23 157:13 instituted 55:3 instruct 110:6 instructed 1:19,20 131:12 132:10 134:15 instruction 101:3 instructions 135:19 intelligent 46:17 64:10 83:24 intention 79:6 interest 16:3,21 114:10 128:11 interested 40:14 79:3 87:11 interests 5:23 6:24 7:2,6 interfere
10:12 38:4 43:4 120:15 interference 64:5 66:22 interfering 37:19 37:24 88:25 119:13 internal 119:17,20 international 5:14 15:24 138:19 141:23 internationally 94:5 Internet 132:16 136:11 159:19 160:15,18 161:2 interpreting 43:24 interrupt 37:21 143:3 155:7 interrupting 51:19 intervene 10:14 50:23 51:7,16 51:23 53:14 58:19 63:12,20 64:4,14,16,21 66:5,16 67:5 92:10 intimidated 59:5 intimidation 59:17,21 invested 66:3 investigate 63:16 122:23 investigated 145:20 investigation 99:25 149:11 investigators 145:13 investment 48:16 48:20,21 141:7 141:8 investor 30:17 43:14,14 48:7 48:17,23 86:21 86:23 87:24 89:22 93:2,4,4 102:13,13 103:6 117:10 investors 48:21 invite 78:25 involve 81:9 107:20 involved 6:10 7:25 26:3,12 28:24 30:10 31:20 34:2 36:16
39:10 41:22 72:25 85:25 98:22 105:13 110:15 involvement 29:11,17 involves 52:22 89:6 in-between 25:4 IPP 14:5 15:2 16:6 17:11 24:10,18,23 27:13 70:11 94:5 96:7,23 97:5,12 113:19 113:21,22 122:8 122:14 123:3,12 123:12 128:14 129:25 130:11 130:16,19 136:25 140:9,14 IPP's 22:4 34:15 97:3 irrefutable 153:4 153:8 154:5,13 irrefutably 153:18 irregularly 6:23 irrelevant 99:24 Island 22:16 issue 7:23 14:8 36:15 51:9 57:8 57:25 67:17,21 71:5 79:17 85:18 97:25 98:2 104:5 119:14 139:17 140:5,7 issued 112:4 137:21 issues 58:8 79:15 issuing 48:18 item 63:14 154:9 items 154:10 ITV 2:17 24:3 25:18 28:11,11 28:13 29:2,11 29:14,16,18 30:4 34:5,7 J JAMES 1:20 Jamii 149:25 150:3,4,5,6,14 150:19 January 15:20 86:19 89:14,19 92:4 111:22 112:5 125:10 127:3 131:17 132:5 140:25
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 171] 110:16 long-standing 109:21 look 1:23 3:23 4:20 18:14 34:9 41:12,16 43:7 43:13 45:14,15 47:10,19 48:10 53:21 55:17 56:7 59:9 62:14 66:6 67:25 68:7 69:2,6,12,15 70:23 74:19 76:23 78:9 84:8 86:17 89:4,18 90:21 93:11,14 94:12,18 95:3,6 95:8 96:9 99:10 99:12 102:22 111:18 116:17 119:15 120:4 121:9 127:16 131:3,14 132:5 132:10 138:12 140:13 142:8 143:13 145:13 145:21 147:24 149:18 150:17 151:19 152:23 158:25 159:9 looked 99:14 104:14 122:6,6 125:20 132:13 160:19 161:11 looking 61:10,11 61:12,18 68:4 74:21 93:13,19 94:20,21 111:23 117:11 122:5 129:17 131:8,16 159:8,25 looks 48:12 Lord 1:2,15 4:13 6:16 17:2 18:9 20:10,24 21:12 33:12 35:15,23 38:9 39:2 41:8 41:25 42:4,7,9 42:10 45:9 47:5 47:12 49:19 50:6 51:7,9 52:8 52:25 54:9 56:4 56:17,19 58:6 58:18 59:13 64:5,18 65:8,9 66:6,17 67:4 68:8,11,16,22 68:22 69:4,8,13 69:17 70:13 71:5 72:16 73:19 74:16,18 76:8,18,25 77:8 77:17,24,25 78:12,21 79:6,9 79:12,22 80:5 80:10,15 81:18 81:25 82:11,25 83:13,19 84:17 84:22,24 85:14 86:8 87:13 92:20,24 95:7 96:22 98:11 108:17,21,25 109:25 110:3,25 112:3 116:8,8 118:16 124:23 127:13,24 128:20,25 130:3 130:6,22 131:25 132:2 134:5,11 137:24 139:12 141:12,12 143:3 148:11,15,15 152:2 153:10 154:8,16,25 158:14 159:5,21 162:4,7,18 Lordship 18:10 18:19 19:3,12 94:16 96:15 163:7 Lordship's 50:12 75:18 loss 30:25 32:12 32:21 33:13,15 33:16,17,20 losses 30:17 loss-making 30:12 32:2 lost 90:17 lot 17:7 23:6 66:3 77:23 lots 134:4 lousy 33:5 lower 156:21 157:3,5 Ltd's 27:6 Luhanga 24:18 25:8 lunch 83:24 Luther 5:16 Lybrand 3:5 M Machines 90:17 mail 104:4 main 33:2 maintain 129:12 Major 5:17 making 30:18,20 54:25 71:25
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
79:3 81:6,20 82:11,16,19,25 83:9,15,22,22 84:6,12,12,22 85:24,24 86:14 91:4,5 92:8,24 96:5,15,21,22 96:22 97:4,15 100:11 101:7,11 102:19 103:14 105:15,21,22 108:8,25 109:3 109:17 110:4,14 110:15,25 111:2 111:4 113:8,10 113:11,11,18,23 113:24 114:6,22 119:4,17,21 120:12 122:10 124:20 125:19 126:4,17,22,25 127:2,11,24,25 128:20 129:6,7 129:8,10,11,16 129:18 132:18 135:23 136:5 142:24 145:23 146:6,15,17,20 146:22 147:3,7 147:7,10,11,12 147:23 148:15 148:15,22,23 149:6,9 150:16 151:14 152:10 153:11,11,13 159:16 knowing 106:24 knowledge 26:8 30:14 35:12 52:14 55:10,11 76:19 77:9 81:8 119:16,20 known 36:11 65:15 73:11 82:6 136:4 148:18 knows 64:11 95:6 126:4 L land 6:14 7:6 49:6 66:3 Lane 1:16 lasted 9:21 54:8 125:14 lastly 48:22 late 39:25 92:4 Laureate 5:18 law 43:16 52:14 94:2 132:17 135:9 142:3
155:19 156:5 lawful 76:4 140:24 lawsuit 154:7 155:25 lawyer 20:13 97:23 106:8,9 108:3,6 109:21 110:13 113:2 135:19,19 144:17,18,21,22 145:3 146:5,7 151:6 152:25 153:10 155:16 155:23 156:2,10 161:12 lawyers 50:3,4 112:8 113:14,24 134:11 135:21 142:14 145:13 145:17,18 146:4 146:11,18,19,20 149:10 153:11 154:17 156:13 163:11 lawyer's 143:12 laying 90:14 learn 17:17 92:12 learned 58:19 107:2 132:8 160:4 learnt 17:18 131:21 lease 11:2 49:10 53:22 55:6 57:3 61:20,23 62:2 62:15,18,23,23 63:5 75:20 76:11 79:5,20 leave 31:18,22 38:4 54:15 66:20 72:17,17 102:5 118:22 161:9,19 leaving 72:14,15 led 142:25 left 34:21 38:3 75:6 96:9 125:18 149:18 left-hand 14:12,17 legal 16:7 23:22 25:13,15,19,21 25:23,24 26:2 26:10,15,19,22 59:13,17 72:20 73:11 74:15 91:20 106:9,10 106:22 108:14 108:17 109:13 113:3 128:15
146:16 154:18 154:21 legally 62:6,13 63:4,5,5 legitimate 89:22 leisure 116:9 lesson 92:12 letter 11:17,17,20 11:22 12:3,4,8 12:11,16,16,18 13:2,2,11,14,22 14:7,11,20 15:20 16:9,15 16:18,25 20:12 63:3 70:7,13 75:4 80:19 83:11 84:8,20 85:4 87:17 93:15 94:12,12 94:20 97:10,13 97:17 98:21,23 98:24 99:2,10 99:12 100:25,25 100:25 101:12 101:13,16 103:24 104:12 104:18,20,20 105:2 106:4,17 106:18,19 107:17,20,21 108:8,10,14 109:14 111:24 121:2,12,17,20 124:2 127:13,13 127:14 128:2,5 129:2,3,13,19 129:21 131:7,7 131:16,16,17,19 132:2,4,11,14 132:22,24 133:10,19,24 134:9,10,12,16 135:2,11,13 136:3,7,10 141:13,20,25 142:2,2 158:9 158:12,18 159:13,15,25 letters 11:6,15 92:21 93:12 96:18 97:22 98:22,25 103:19 104:6,8,9,11 105:4,5,8,18,25 106:3,6,22 107:25 108:18 111:23 116:13 116:21 118:12 120:17,19 124:18 127:18
130:6 132:13,13 134:4 135:5 Let's 43:7,13 111:18 116:17 124:19 131:14 level 138:19 liar 137:15 158:2 libellous 70:10 libelous 14:25 libels 153:19 154:14 liberty 79:7 lie 28:21 32:16 40:25 72:11 110:3 111:3,4 111:16,17 lies 17:7,8,9 34:24 47:25 106:5 126:9,15 life 6:6,8 18:21 43:3 54:25 68:9 117:11 Limited 71:8 114:14 118:15 147:4 line 13:2 100:16 100:16 130:21 141:13,15 151:17,17 152:5 lines 136:22 link 140:13 listed 5:23 48:7 62:21 listen 37:8 39:3 58:7 62:11 78:16 80:15 86:15 149:5 listened 58:6 listening 60:10 62:10 little 14:19 23:10 23:12 27:15 35:12 52:20 57:16 92:18 149:17 living 105:15 local 88:14 141:8 150:4 location 9:10 lock 46:9 log 142:9 London 1:3,16 18:16 160:8 long 9:17,21 10:9 42:3 49:20 68:8 77:16 99:4 123:4 125:14 162:9 163:6 longer 139:24 longstanding
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 172] 118:1 119:1 120:1 121:1 122:1 123:1 124:1 125:1 126:1 127:1 128:1 129:1 130:1 131:1 132:1 133:1 134:1 135:1 136:1 137:1 138:1 139:1 140:1 141:1 142:1 143:1 144:1 145:1 146:1 147:1 148:1 149:1 150:1 151:1 152:1 153:1 154:1 155:1 156:1 157:1 158:1 159:1 160:1 161:1 162:1 163:1 mention 9:24 10:7 38:18 mentioned 7:18 43:17 68:12 84:22 mentioning 81:10 merits 19:20,22 message 81:20 met 8:13 38:14 42:16 51:10 79:8 82:18 83:20 Michael 20:13,15 middle 25:3 35:15 94:15,24 95:11 107:15 152:24 Middleton 6:11 7:24 8:3,11,14 9:10,24 11:8 12:4,5 13:12 14:21 37:13 38:7,11,14,16 39:14 44:6,14 45:3 46:6 49:5 52:12,23 53:2 53:21 54:5,23 55:7,16 56:10 56:23 57:22,25 58:2,4,6,9,11,15 59:2,24 60:4,15 60:17 61:19 63:9,10,25 64:14 67:15,16 69:14,25 70:7 70:17 71:3,9,11 71:15,20 72:7 72:13 73:18 74:12 75:5,16 75:19 76:22,25 78:2,19 79:7 80:14 82:6,19 82:23 83:17 84:15 85:9,21 86:6,13,23 87:7 87:17 88:12,17 89:5 90:3,7,14 90:18 91:7,8,22 91:24 93:3,17 97:18 98:9,13 103:3,23 108:11 111:21 114:20 115:8,19 116:14 116:21 119:24 121:23 123:22 123:24 124:13 125:10 126:19 129:11 137:12 148:3,20 149:2 153:25 Middletons 7:19 11:15 36:18,25 91:13 111:7 114:7,15 119:3 119:8,20 120:12 121:16 122:15 123:14,17,20 129:25 137:25 138:5 Middleton's 10:23 11:2 58:21 62:5 68:11,16 69:20 72:20 73:11 74:15 78:9 79:19 108:24 109:13,14 117:10 119:16 121:9 Mike 150:24 miles 22:12 23:25 million 5:11,11 86:22,25 millions 73:8 mind 32:16 37:25 79:22 148:12 mine 135:12 minutes 77:20,22 miserable 54:25 misled 109:6 misquote 32:5 misquoted 32:4 mission 78:14 mistake 60:20 mocking 93:25 moment 8:7 11:11 21:12 41:11 51:13 84:24 91:23 102:10
72:10 128:22 155:21 malice 153:15,21 153:24 154:6,8 154:10,15 155:11 malicious 93:25 man 46:17,21 60:15,25 61:7 66:22 74:7 83:25 148:18 152:7 management 29:14 119:20 manager 30:7 87:15 134:22 Managers 147:17 managing 13:15 89:4 94:10 95:22 97:11,14 97:19 99:4 104:13,18 115:9 116:2 118:25 120:7 Manji 17:23 18:15 20:7,16 137:21,25 138:4 138:15 139:9 140:3,17,22 141:18,25 142:11,21 143:2 143:5,18,23 144:7,10,14,17 144:22 145:2 147:15,16,19 151:7 152:5,12 152:14,15,18 153:6 155:8 156:22 157:12 157:23 160:5 161:14 162:2 Manji's 144:18,21 144:22 146:7 147:4 Manor 87:14 manuscript 15:4 March 13:23 60:14,25 61:2 75:5 94:17,19 94:24 95:9,12 95:16,21,25 103:24 107:17 116:21 123:6 135:2 mark 75:12 marked 11:16 marketing 23:22 24:18 25:11 98:2 marks 15:5,8,10
140:20 Marten 1:15 Martin 5:16 masterminded 153:6 mate 54:2 material 58:23 88:20 91:12,19 122:16 123:3,13 124:5 159:18 matter 11:23 15:16 35:9 36:7 36:12,23 37:2 44:7 51:4 52:12 71:8 83:16 89:6 92:15 98:7 100:12 103:25 104:2 107:20 109:22 110:13 149:8 Mauggo 162:19 MD 31:19 mean 2:22 15:10 19:5 23:12 32:24 53:23 58:17 59:7 64:3 64:15 69:8 112:25 121:8 137:5 147:17 meaning 150:18 means 50:14 73:7 136:23 137:12 150:5 meant 47:7 101:11 measure 147:23 media 2:12,15 3:16,17 4:3,7 15:2 16:6 17:11 25:10 66:12,14 66:19 70:11 92:13,13 104:24 120:13 122:8,14 123:2,12 128:14 130:25 136:25 140:9,14 161:8 mediate 86:16 mediation 57:11 60:3 79:22 81:9 mediations 82:11 mediator 12:22 50:23 51:16,18 53:14,17 56:14 56:14 57:18 78:4 82:9 86:15 meet 9:9 38:16 47:3 51:11 53:16 57:7 73:20 80:13 82:18 meeting
103:8 104:22 8:6,14 9:2 108:11,12,15,23 9:3,4,5,7,8,12 108:25 109:11 9:15,19,21,23 109:12,20 110:5 11:18,24 12:9 110:9 115:2,12 14:6,24 16:5 115:15 117:12 35:10,10 39:5 118:21 119:5 42:16 43:5 121:6 124:10 50:11,12 51:13 125:3 126:4 54:4,8 58:15,23 127:12 129:9 59:4 61:3,5 130:5,18 132:10 64:19 67:3 132:17 134:6 69:21 70:8,9,20 139:13 140:6,9 70:22,22 71:17 140:13,15,18,24 71:21 72:8 142:2 143:3 73:22 74:3,7 145:2,12 148:4 75:17 77:11,25 148:10,13 149:2 78:3 80:20 149:4 151:8,20 81:15 86:20 152:4,13,14,24 91:7 93:23,23 153:4,9 154:12 98:8 104:14 155:6,22 156:17 119:25 128:13 161:3 162:11,21 140:6 163:9 meetings 27:18,20 Mengi's 150:23 27:25 50:16 MENGI-PRICE member 97:3 22:1 23:1 24:1 139:22 25:1 26:1 27:1 members 15:22 28:1 29:1 30:1 28:15 29:8 31:1 32:1 33:1 89:21 90:2 34:1 35:1 36:1 memory 38:20 37:1 38:1 39:1 Mengi 1:9 1:2,5,7 40:1 41:1 42:1 2:1,10,25 3:1,15 43:1 44:1 45:1 4:1 5:1 6:1,3,10 46:1 47:1 48:1 7:1 8:1,7 9:1 49:1 50:1 51:1 10:1 11:1 12:1,2 52:1 53:1 54:1 13:1 14:1 15:1 55:1 56:1 57:1 15:17 16:1,25 58:1 59:1 60:1 17:1,3,22 18:1 61:1 62:1 63:1 19:1 20:1,3,11 64:1 65:1 66:1 20:25 21:1 22:3 67:1 68:1 69:1 33:21 34:14 70:1 71:1 72:1 39:24 40:21 73:1 74:1 75:1 41:2,11 42:2,3 76:1 77:1 78:1 43:22 44:16,17 79:1 80:1 81:1 45:15,22 46:17 82:1 83:1 84:1 49:14,25 50:10 85:1 86:1 87:1 52:4,16,21 53:2 88:1 89:1 90:1 53:19 54:24 91:1 92:1 93:1 55:2,4,15 56:3,8 94:1 95:1 96:1 57:2,12,23 58:7 97:1 98:1 99:1 59:14 61:12 100:1 101:1 65:3 67:25 68:6 102:1 103:1 68:18 69:11 104:1 105:1 72:3,23 73:21 106:1 107:1 80:2,7 81:3 83:3 108:1 109:1 83:23 84:8,13 110:1 111:1 85:4,21 87:9 112:1 113:1 90:11 93:5 95:7 114:1 115:1 97:9 98:4 102:5 116:1 117:1 102:15,18,23
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 173] 110:10 113:19 113:21 official 33:15 49:4 officially 113:15 113:16 Oh 55:18 135:11 141:21 oil 74:11 okay 24:24 25:6 27:12 38:24 49:17 51:13 68:5 87:14 119:15 128:6 151:18 old 2:10 53:16 109:21 110:12 once 50:2 144:17 144:21 160:19 ones 66:25 97:5 116:11,12,13,13 one-man 4:5 one-sided 101:21 102:17 open 1:10,11 54:15,17 74:20 96:14 102:6,7 opened 83:21 operates 120:12 operating 113:18 operations 26:12 27:3 28:24 29:16 30:6,7,10 31:6,6,20,23 34:4,10,12 opinion 53:6 56:16 61:6 62:10 81:16 83:20 93:6 117:16 147:21 149:8 154:9 156:6 opinions 120:15 147:22 opportunity 3:18 3:20,21 57:17 92:24 118:21 119:6 156:16 opposed 113:22 order 19:4 47:4 48:24 70:24 organisations 2:12,15 16:2,22 33:4 128:10 original 94:18,23 94:25 other's 47:3 56:20 83:21 outlets 3:16 4:3,7 outlined 70:15 outside 66:21 owned 4:7 15:2 70:11 137:2 owner 66:25 130:23 140:24 147:13,17 owners 64:25 147:18 owns 7:7 66:22 147:12 o'clock 85:2 P P 1:23 page 1:11,23,25 11:12,16 12:2,4 12:11 13:2,14 13:22 14:19 15:14,19 16:15 20:10,11 43:10 45:16 47:19 48:6 54:18,22 59:14,14 61:16 63:10 70:3,5 74:21,23 75:2,4 75:6 80:19 86:19 88:2 89:13,15,16,19 90:21,21 92:21 93:13,14 94:13 94:15,21,24 95:11 99:10,10 101:2 102:11 103:21 104:19 107:8,11,12,12 107:13,15 108:10,14 111:18,24 112:5 116:18 125:5,5 125:16 127:2,16 131:4,6,6,15,19 131:24 132:15 133:2 134:4,23 135:17 136:19 136:21,22 139:7 139:11 140:16 140:21,21 141:4 141:11,19,19,24 142:9 143:14 144:3 145:21,23 147:4 149:21 151:19,19 152:25 156:20 157:3 158:9 159:9 pages 13:22 16:14 paid 87:19 148:25 153:19 154:14 pain 79:6 palm 44:6 paper 2:19 65:19 76:16,18 77:7,9
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
124:21 155:6 162:7 money 16:11 30:18,19,20 31:3 66:3 73:7 129:4,4,14,14 129:16,21 161:14 monogram 14:8 month 65:14 100:4 103:22,22 129:15 140:10 months 23:13,13 23:16,16 41:6,7 70:8 73:12 87:22 103:11 108:22 111:23 114:21,25 116:3 116:20 131:7 135:17,22 158:13 morning 9:16 85:4 93:16 104:15 113:12 162:11,15 163:9 Moshi 3:9 6:14 7:13,17 8:21 22:8,12,18,25 23:9,14,17 35:16,19,20 48:12,20,22 66:3 73:12 89:20 99:15 110:6 111:22 move 1:7 34:2,2,9 39:11 81:13 93:11 118:22 124:19 moving 49:24 54:4 muddled 61:13 muddy 29:15 murderous 117:9 118:2 mushroom 4:17 MW 96:21,25 97:2 N N 1:23 naked 34:24 name 1:14,19 9:13 20:16 138:2 141:12 named 89:22 national 48:17 86:22 natural 92:9 Naturally 6:19 nature 18:8 37:4 57:21 63:16
near 6:14 nearly 83:23 necessary 51:17 94:18 necessity 67:6 need 3:19,23 4:20 13:21 16:18 21:13 35:11 36:20 40:9 54:15 63:17 68:10 75:21 76:17 77:7 89:7 96:15 negligible 73:13 Neither 13:12 neutral 50:23 51:16 53:14 57:18 81:9 82:9 never 13:18 18:21 48:2 64:8 68:10 69:23 70:23,23 75:15 85:13 91:5 101:22,23 105:11,14 109:8 109:10,10 110:10,10 121:15 126:9 129:13 130:22 130:22 137:9 146:24 150:11 151:9,9,12,14 152:6,7,8 158:11,20,21 new 33:3 65:16 96:14 146:17 news 2:23,24 3:19 3:24 4:11 116:4 116:4 125:13 130:17,17,20,25 160:2 161:8,20 newspaper 2:20 11:6 13:16 41:5 45:15 46:3 52:16,21 53:5 55:12 65:4,15 66:22 85:12,14 88:21 93:18,19 95:22 96:2 97:12 99:4 101:18 102:2 104:19,21,23 122:5 newspapers 4:16 4:17 14:5,5,5 15:2 23:24 31:25 39:13 40:14,24 55:13 55:14,14 64:3 64:16 66:12 67:5 68:12 69:2
70:11 74:14 91:12,16 92:2 92:14 93:22 94:9 98:10 100:2,8 101:19 103:13 109:15 114:20 116:2 119:7,17,21 120:11 121:24 124:6,15,16 129:24 137:14 next-door 24:8,9 Ngoja 44:15 46:6 125:9,11,23 126:7 127:4 Ngolo 20:13,18 86:13 150:24 151:10 153:2 Nguma 14:14,15 15:15 17:10 25:13,22 27:4 27:20 28:6 29:4 29:7,17,24 30:3 75:6,10,11 85:9 101:2,10 105:18 105:20 106:7,21 107:25 108:19 108:22,25 109:8 109:10,12 110:13,16 111:8 112:9,12,14,16 112:18 113:3,4 113:20 114:3,3 114:6,24 115:11 118:25 119:2 162:18 Nguma's 14:18 27:12,23 75:9 107:4 113:12 114:17 night 18:24 19:2,6 125:12 nine 5:21 Nipashe 2:19,22 9:25 39:12 40:7 40:13 41:9,11 41:21 42:21 43:8,11 63:11 86:19 90:23 92:22 102:11 116:14 nitty 28:24 Nobel 5:18 nonsense 46:10 noon 49:25 Normally 97:6 norms 98:12 north 22:12,18 note 15:15,16 50:12 75:18 Notes
1:15 notice 12:2 14:25 43:17 70:10 131:22 136:21 November 1:4 16:15 39:11 41:9,20 43:11 99:19 140:6 150:20 159:9 160:14,17 161:11 NSFF 87:14,17 number 5:14,20 5:23 20:10,16 54:13 74:22 116:19 132:25 136:7,20 142:22 162:16 numerous 73:14 O O 1:23 oath 83:7 109:25 obituaries 65:14 objective 82:5,5 observe 64:16 observed 65:5 66:15 92:11 observes 104:23 obtained 20:4 146:3 153:4 obvious 145:2 148:9 149:3 obviously 21:13 140:20 162:24 occasion 38:6,9 occasionally 28:4 occasions 152:12 occur 105:12 October 8:21 offence 44:11 52:22 offer 133:5 offered 76:2 office 3:4 14:12 22:4 23:18,18 24:10,20,22 27:12,14,23,24 27:25 34:15,18 34:21,22,23 36:2,8 37:12 97:5,8 99:2 104:3 110:9,9 112:10 113:9,9 113:20 114:4,5 officer 15:22 25:21 148:5 officers 25:23,24 offices 22:4 24:14 24:23 25:5 27:16,16,21
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 174] 74:11 poverty 5:4,25 power 43:24 45:5 70:24 80:23 85:6 powerful 140:14 powers 31:5 PR 142:9 practice 105:16 practices 113:17 precision 27:8 preliminary 8:13 12:12,15 81:2 preparation 75:16 prepared 30:17 69:20 71:15,19 72:4,7 75:17,19 76:22 77:3 79:10 82:10 prepares 32:18 presence 82:15 present 10:18 54:5 60:13 president 36:2,9 36:10 65:7,10 118:17,18 136:10 President's 36:7 37:12 press 15:23 31:11 34:14,15,18,22 35:2,7 40:10 67:15 93:25 150:12 161:10 presumably 14:12 71:14 presume 56:4 147:6 pretty 50:16 102:17 145:2 148:7 149:3 previous 51:22 125:12 pre-action 132:12 134:6 135:3 pre-determined 79:24 pre-trial 159:23 Price 1:20 18:21 18:24 19:10,14 19:18 21:11,12 22:2,3 49:21,24 50:9,10 58:25 59:2 68:23 76:9 76:10 80:4,5,18 83:14 84:24 85:4 88:3 92:19 92:20 95:4,7 96:23 100:24,25 102:9 107:2 112:2 124:20,23 125:2,3 126:7 128:6 134:2,5 134:15 139:12 142:7,8 143:7 152:12 154:12 154:13 158:25 159:2,6 162:7,8 162:10,14,23 163:5 principal 106:10 principally 2:17 4:10 principle 73:6 81:3 84:8 100:12 principles 123:25 printed 145:9,25 146:10 priority 20:20 privilege 18:10 19:8 108:15 120:13 146:16 privileged 19:8 149:14 probably 102:7 116:8 problem 7:14,15 8:2 31:12 35:22 37:23 52:22 56:22,22,23 69:8 76:12 78:5 78:15 82:10 problems 78:23 145:14 procedures 48:24 49:7 102:2 proceeded 162:21 proceedings 1:17 10:24 16:8 17:23 18:12,14 19:16 20:6,8,21 21:2 128:16 131:12,15 132:11 137:21 138:10 155:2,5 160:8 produce 138:5 139:5 produced 23:24 produces 23:6 profession 66:24 105:16 professional 64:11 66:11 94:2 117:6 146:16 professionally 105:17 professionals
81:7 84:23 85:16 96:17 101:16 104:10 104:23 118:6 papers 1:9 4:6,10 4:10,18 10:4,6 10:12 40:8,9,13 69:16 77:2 85:19 89:10 98:17 101:6 104:11 116:5 123:17 137:16 paragraph 3:22 5:13 12:11 13:25 14:23 16:19 41:18,18 45:15,18 50:13 54:14,18,19 55:23 59:16 61:10,15,16,18 67:15 68:4 75:18 99:12 102:22,24 107:11 131:25 131:25 132:3,3 136:16 138:14 138:17,18,22,23 152:3 156:24 158:25 paragraphs 4:19 parallel 138:10 155:2,5 160:8 pardon 23:15 38:8 88:3 161:10 Parliament 139:22 part 11:5 19:14 23:3 35:14 40:20 55:4 90:12 110:18 132:14 141:4,17 141:18 participate 4:22 77:19 particular 50:4 104:5 142:12 particularly 5:25 66:2 74:7 87:11 88:14 partner 93:8 124:13 partnership 103:8 parts 24:24 pass 60:9 97:23 99:8 101:12 104:4 105:5 106:4,13,15,17 120:19 passages 132:21 135:4 passed
9:6 105:18 106:6,7 107:25 108:5 115:10 120:17 134:11 135:19 patriot 125:15 pattern 35:8 pause 19:25 133:17 149:20 151:25 155:6 159:4 pay 10:23 16:6 33:6 73:20 83:18 86:22,25 87:15,18,21,23 128:14 129:5,12 129:14,14,17 140:17 payment 148:3 Peace 5:17 peanuts 73:4 pen 163:3 pending 86:13 people 6:4,7 7:18 31:5 33:4,10 40:22 53:8,18 57:19 64:23 72:16 82:14 88:14,15 97:8 98:22 101:24 111:6 113:7,22 116:6 120:17,20 128:7 134:17 139:24 149:10 150:12,16 152:17 perfect 75:24 76:21,23 perfectly 52:11 71:16 92:14 94:7 99:5 119:6 127:9,12 128:3 145:21 146:15 period 30:11 periods 30:14 permissible 122:22 permission 65:9 permit 119:7 persistently 32:2 person 3:4 25:11 34:8 36:11 42:12 60:8 61:7 64:10 91:20 98:22 101:12,15 104:5 105:15 106:4,5,18 116:4 118:14 121:17 129:22 130:7 137:15,17 personalities
16:22 personally 5:8 11:6 15:3 16:23 32:25 33:6 70:3 70:12,20 104:15 112:12,25 113:5 114:6 115:9 123:23 petty 4:4 photocopy 94:14 94:16 phrase 152:5 physical 59:17,21 physically 59:5 pick 40:17 picked 146:4 picking 145:17 piece 6:14 10:9 81:7 84:23 96:16 139:16 place 9:15 11:24 51:14 53:15 54:4 113:10,17 135:8 146:21 placed 14:25 15:2 70:10,11 plain 65:19 plaint 111:20 112:4 plaintiff's 138:19 138:20 plant 23:14 plantation 89:21 99:15 Plaza 112:9 114:2 pleaded 153:8 please 1:10,23 6:17 11:20 13:14,21,25 15:15,19 21:7 32:25 36:19 37:21 38:20 68:18 74:22 93:14 94:20 131:5 133:16 138:22 140:12 141:25 149:20 150:3 151:24,25 154:11 156:24 158:24 pocketing 87:7 Pocock 8:10,23 10:17 12:6 13:12 14:25 37:14 38:14 50:11,20,22 51:14,14,22 52:6 53:13 54:6 59:9 61:4 63:3 63:25 64:15
67:3,5,9,19,23 68:20 69:11 70:10 71:9,10 75:17 77:11 80:20 85:5 86:18,20 119:25 120:3,22 140:6 Pocock's 58:22 68:14 point 42:13,14 46:15 58:3,13 92:19 116:10 117:21,22 119:16,24 121:9 121:16 130:5 134:6 pointed 159:22 pointless 46:23 points 83:21 94:4 police 44:12 99:25 policies 66:19 policy 104:3,4 political 152:6,8 politics 150:18 152:10 poor 73:15 152:17 position 46:14 55:21 58:24 63:7 65:9 79:23 81:14 92:16 101:13 114:10 117:13 119:4 135:12 156:13 159:21 positions 79:24 possibility 128:21 possible 47:6 69:10 79:11 80:23 85:6 104:5 120:7 145:24 154:6 possibly 33:15 77:22 79:17 94:19 99:21 104:7 110:8 123:9 136:2 141:9 146:11 post 150:12 162:25 posted 123:18,18 151:3 posting 134:21 149:24 151:2 156:19 postings 133:11 133:13 151:4 157:19 159:8 160:17,18 161:11 pound 73:7 pour
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 175] 158:11,14,15,20 158:21 receiving 16:8 reception 25:4,6 receptive 38:22 reckless 94:2 recognise 1:16 48:16 recollection 42:7 50:18 59:19 68:14 69:21,22 70:22 71:16,21 72:8 106:25 reconcile 55:4 reconciliation 42:15 record 35:5,6 77:17 83:2 recorded 61:5 recording 72:5 126:3,8 records 64:20 68:16 redacted 19:14,21 refer 20:16 50:14 103:23 104:19 127:22 132:12 reference 93:15 127:21 142:4 references 93:3 referred 70:13 71:7 84:20 127:13 referring 84:10 99:14,17 128:18 129:7 132:3 157:2,15 refers 93:17 129:6 132:18 refresh 32:16 refusing 55:6 61:20 130:12 Reg 130:17 regard 81:2 regarding 10:11 67:15 regards 38:2 Reginald 1:9 1:5 44:16 67:25 68:6 69:11 103:8 108:11,15 148:4 149:2 150:23 151:20 152:4,23 153:4 Regional 86:23 87:14 register 55:6 61:20 62:5,13 62:23 63:4 76:4 79:21 registered 11:3 48:24 49:6,6 62:18,22 63:5 114:4,5 registering 48:23 regularly 35:2,19 72:22 reiterate 80:22 relate 19:15 related 19:18 130:14 relating 18:11 19:4 97:22 relation 7:9 15:25 16:7 24:22 27:14 60:7 100:20 128:15 134:10 relations 37:23 relationship 52:2 release 161:10 released 159:19 releases 150:13 relevant 20:7 75:20 76:2 relief 5:4 relies 159:24 remaining 17:3 remains 20:24 99:25 remarks 108:13 108:13 141:9 152:3 remember 9:5,17 9:18,23 14:23 32:14,15,15 37:4 39:14,24 40:4,5,6 41:14 41:25 42:4,4,22 42:25 43:2 48:4 48:5,8 49:19,21 49:22 67:16 68:8,21,22 69:13,14,22 70:9,20 72:18 74:17 76:5,12 76:13,25 77:4,4 80:11 97:7 104:14 106:23 107:19,19 108:17,21 120:3 120:5,6 137:10 144:25 remembered 71:10 remembers 74:13 108:20 125:23 remind 8:19 93:17 163:9 reminds 93:23
100:13 profit 23:6 32:7 32:12 projects 5:3 promise 10:14,20 10:23 11:2 16:4 72:18 127:19 128:12,22 129:13 140:10 promised 49:3,9 129:12 promises 16:13 128:18 129:20 promoting 16:3 128:11 141:8 proper 64:17 66:14,23 92:9 92:10 94:7 99:5 99:7,7 104:24 160:13 properly 89:7 101:13,16 property 62:5,13 63:4 76:5 102:14,18 proportion 31:21 proposal 13:3 52:18 propose 57:10,24 proposed 78:3 proposing 12:24 proprietor 65:4 65:16 92:10 101:18 proprietors 64:25 65:15 proprietor's 65:21 protocol 132:12 134:7 135:3 prove 153:15,18 provoke 159:17 provoked 159:13 159:15,16,20 PST 88:5 public 16:21 136:24 137:13 publication 135:8 publications 136:8,11,20 137:2 published 65:14 93:22 94:4,5,9 98:10 101:22,23 132:19 133:6,8 142:22 publishes 91:19 publishing 91:12 101:20 punch 156:21
157:3,5 purchase 75:20 purpose 9:8 52:13 pursue 53:19 134:6 155:8,9 put 10:14 11:11 15:8 43:9 46:14 52:3,7,8 56:14 61:13 63:20 69:16 70:2 72:6 74:13 75:12 76:9 79:23,23 80:5 81:7,14 82:25 84:23 108:4 109:20 119:5 121:2 123:13 148:21 148:23 149:15 151:10 152:10 153:23 154:12 154:15,16,22 155:12,15,18 156:19 159:8 putting 38:22 102:17 Q QC 1:19,20 1:6 qualified 2:25 Quality 1:15,16 147:4,12,14 148:19 Quarter 77:22 QUEEN'S 1:1 question 4:24 6:3 6:17 12:23 15:4 15:8,10 18:11 19:15 20:25 29:23 43:25 52:6 53:20 59:2 62:12,19 63:3 68:19,24 71:19 72:6 73:5,5,7 76:8,13 80:4,12 83:23 97:9 103:9 113:8 117:14 120:24 120:25 121:6,22 122:18 134:13 142:7,10 143:4 144:2 154:4,11 155:8 156:15 questionable 90:17 questions 8:13 22:3 49:15 58:20 103:10 147:22 148:14 159:3 quickly 79:11,15 104:4
quite 8:23 30:24 32:10 35:2 42:3 53:9 68:14 69:10 71:20 72:7 104:21 110:11 116:18 126:18 139:16 145:23 146:13 146:20 148:9 159:13,15 162:14 163:6,8 R R 1:23 radio 24:3 125:11 125:20,25 126:20 127:10 128:4 131:22 132:8 140:23 raise 51:9 55:3 58:15 90:3 raised 52:6 55:7 57:25 58:13 67:17,21 68:24 98:7 119:24 raises 51:14 136:19 Rampton 1:19 1:2 1:6 2:1 3:1 4:1 4:14 5:1 6:1 7:1 8:1 9:1 10:1 11:1,14 12:1 13:1 14:1 15:1 16:1 17:1 18:1 18:22 19:1,2,7 19:12,15,19 20:1,3 21:1 58:18 88:2 93:15 96:15,20 106:25 125:24 143:3 162:12,17 ran 66:9 range 4:21 raw 126:2 reach 162:19 reaction 16:8,10 read 11:20 12:6 13:25 14:3,3,22 16:10,18 17:3,6 17:18 19:10,23 20:2,15 37:11 39:5,11,15,18 39:23 40:7,8,9 40:24 41:8,20 43:8,21,23 44:20 46:8 47:23 48:3 52:16,21 53:5 55:12 61:2,7 65:17 85:12,14 85:16,17,18,19
86:21 89:18 106:18 107:5,9 111:6 116:8,11 116:16,22 122:24 132:2 140:12 151:23 158:23 159:2 160:24 reader 91:20 reading 40:13 55:19 88:24 90:6 92:25 reads 20:17 41:21 41:23 43:15 49:10 87:24 90:2,6,9,13,19 93:2 94:6 99:16 99:24 104:16,20 107:17 125:15 ready 76:10 110:2 real 45:3 55:15,15 58:20 realised 3:17 reality 53:3,24,25 79:16 86:4 really 9:17,22 35:13 47:12 49:14 80:4 100:14 137:12 reams 76:16,18 77:7,8 reason 19:21 44:10 63:2 69:6 77:5 100:19 121:23 125:22 126:7 154:20,22 154:25 155:10 155:18,21 156:3 156:9,12 reasonable 101:17 133:7 recall 42:20 67:25 68:6,15 69:11 75:13 137:24 receive 16:25 97:22 104:6,8 158:10,18 received 11:5,22 13:11 14:12 20:11 94:17,19 94:24 95:8,13 95:16,21,25 96:2,7,24 97:17 97:20 99:5 101:2 103:24 106:21 108:17 116:21 120:10 126:23 127:4 131:8 141:4,19 144:7 154:22
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 176] 150:17 151:23 sections 150:19 security 86:22 87:7 see 1:9 2:3 6:22 8:4 13:19,23 14:3 23:18 29:2 30:16,24 31:11 32:23 33:2 35:2 35:7,9,11 36:24 40:2,3,14 42:9 42:13,14 43:19 45:14 46:15 47:19,22 48:18 48:25 49:11,18 52:18 54:17 63:25 64:16 65:5,9 67:9 68:3 68:6,23 69:25 75:4,16 77:13 84:13 86:10,17 87:6,25 88:5,7,9 90:23 91:11,22 92:5,20,22 93:3 94:16 95:8,15 96:7 97:8,22 100:19 101:17 101:22,22 102:15,24 103:8 106:2,21 107:11 107:24 108:22 109:12 110:9 111:11,20 112:5 112:7,19,22 113:4,6 122:19 123:11 125:8 127:15,18 128:21 129:24 131:14 134:23 135:6 136:22 137:5 139:8 141:2,16 143:15 144:5,6 146:7 149:23 150:20 151:17,23 152:24 156:20 157:4 158:22 159:6 163:3 seeing 41:12,22 42:5,21 96:5 158:18 seek 16:22 41:23 45:6 133:9 seeks 133:3 seen 18:21 49:4,10 63:13 65:13 88:7,7 92:23 101:23,24 107:10,11 125:9 132:7 133:13,15 134:19 136:4 137:6,8,9,10,24 141:22 152:2 sees 49:4 segregate 156:13 self-explanatory 104:13 sell 83:6 send 97:25 98:3 98:22,23 sending 98:15 sends 43:14 sense 56:3 57:13 57:16 68:23 71:2 75:24,25 76:21,23 80:2 83:16 96:4,5 148:17 sensibly 56:17 83:22 sent 31:18,22 95:20,23 97:12 99:11 100:25 106:19 133:18 135:20 137:7 141:6 159:7 sentence 15:5,6 159:18 separate 24:24 96:16 Sequence 90:19 series 119:7 serious 36:7,12,15 44:7,11 50:25 51:3 52:22 100:14 seriously 63:13 88:11 94:8 served 159:24 set 57:18 59:12,16 65:4,20 132:14 132:21 134:3,7 136:23 sets 12:11 151:21 settle 38:10,21,23 settlement/solut... 46:12 seven 23:13,16 41:6 86:24 87:16 seventh 22:5 23:19 24:15,20 34:15 shake 72:17 shame 132:17 shareholder 91:15 93:8 102:20 147:11 shares 7:4 147:12 shark
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
100:18 109:9 repeated 48:19 repetitive 92:18 replied 99:2 105:21 106:3 124:7 reply 38:25 43:20 49:8 80:11,12 97:21 98:21,23 98:24 99:6 103:24,25 104:20 105:4,20 105:25 106:2,5 120:10,16,21 121:15 123:15 124:17 129:2,3 129:19,21 136:24 replying 134:24 report 43:18 47:19,20,22 49:5 90:6,12,22 92:3 99:18 reported 31:11,25 112:20 reporter 48:12,13 48:13 reporting 92:15 100:3 109:15 reports 32:19 122:5 125:13 represent 12:8 represents 12:10 reproduces 108:13 reputation 21:3 88:14 91:13 122:16 138:19 request 14:24 70:9 requested 9:12 require 33:17 requirements 135:2 requires 134:7 resident 116:23 117:8 resolve 7:23 8:4 55:24 79:14,17 resolved 56:7 57:5 respect 74:8 135:4 142:17,19 respected 21:4 respectfully 110:22 respond 104:10 121:24 135:18 137:13 responded 105:7 responding 124:5
124:12 127:9 response 10:10 13:3,8,11 43:2 76:16 136:18 responsibilities 28:7 29:6 30:4 104:24 responsibility 43:24 56:19 99:8 108:7,7 responsible 104:5 104:21,23 106:4 132:21 140:11 rest 116:7 restored 94:7 restrain 107:2 result 77:10 84:14 105:20 142:22 142:24 resulted 51:23 results 30:22 resume 163:12 rethink 135:10 return 49:3,9 55:25 revenue 23:6 review 159:23 re-write 66:24 RICHARD 1:19 right 1:24 7:19 17:12,24 20:2,3 20:8,13 22:13 22:18,23 23:25 24:16 25:16 26:2 27:24 30:12,25 31:13 32:3 34:21,22 36:3 37:9,14,17 38:19 41:24,25 48:14 50:17 52:3,7,8,24 53:4 56:11,16 58:9 63:21 65:3,6 67:7,19 68:20 69:3 74:25 75:5 76:8 80:5,18 83:15 84:5 93:11,20 94:15 95:11,17,23 103:20 106:8,14 108:4,5,16 113:4 119:18,19 121:6 124:18,24 126:17 127:4,22 134:2,14 143:24 144:24 160:25 161:2 162:5,12 163:8,8 right-hand 14:7 14:22 59:11 ring
44:20 46:11 ringing 81:9 rise 83:24 rivals 153:20 RM/5 139:5,7 road 29:15 role 12:22 33:21 33:23,24 57:18 64:11 room 27:15,17,20 27:22,23 28:2,2 54:16 113:12,13 113:13 Rosdan 139:18,18 140:5,12,14 141:5 roughly 35:7 77:16 route 124:18 Royal 1:2 ruined 152:16 rule 49:25 66:7 122:25 rules 66:24 rumour 35:20 run 29:14 33:4,5 34:11 66:11 119:7 running 26:3 29:17 30:4 73:12 98:12 100:8 147:9 runs 102:14 109:18 147:8 S S 1:23 Sabas 143:15,20 144:6 145:10,24 Salaam 3:5 16:16 22:6,12,15 23:18 138:8,9 138:11 142:15 143:9 160:11 162:4 salaries 33:6 Salzberger 65:16 Sarah 1:12 6:11 11:7,9 59:18 139:4 141:6 143:24 151:20 153:5 save 117:11 saw 3:20,21,24 13:16 16:10 36:10 49:19 85:4 110:10 112:15 122:9 137:4 saying 16:12 20:6 21:8,9 30:13
32:2,23 35:10 43:3 44:21 57:2 57:14 58:4 67:25 68:7,8,15 68:19 69:12 71:7 72:10,12 73:6 74:13 76:3 76:5,25 81:12 82:17 83:7 84:22 88:22 97:17 108:4,21 113:25 122:21 123:16,17 127:18 129:4,19 130:12 135:21 138:7 145:7 146:17 154:18 160:24 says 2:3 13:3 14:17,23 15:21 17:6,9,10 34:24 37:19,24 41:25 44:4,6 45:14 48:7 56:23 58:19 63:3 67:9 68:6,14 69:14 70:4 71:10,16 71:20 72:8,13 72:19 75:16 76:2,10,16 77:5 82:2 88:17 94:6 95:25 96:11 99:12 103:23 104:12 106:21 108:13 113:21 117:8 125:11,12 125:18 126:16 128:6,6,10,18 129:5 136:21 143:15,18 145:10,23 152:3 152:4,5,23 159:18,20 scant 7:12 scanty 76:19 77:9 81:8 school 36:11 screams 46:16 script 126:2 searching 58:20 second 4:12 24:23 59:16 95:19 99:10,12 112:8 149:20 152:5 secretary 34:14 34:15 35:2,7 40:11 secretary's 34:18 34:22 secretly 115:12 section
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 177] 1:15 step 87:3 94:7 steps 100:19 stern 87:23 Steward 125:17 Stewart 6:11 8:11 8:14 48:17,20 48:22 59:12,16 108:11 stolen 46:6 57:2 stop 10:15 16:6 21:8 63:20 64:14 69:16 74:13 114:19,24 121:3 127:20 128:13 129:5 140:10 stopped 146:7 160:7 stopping 128:22 stories 69:16 74:14 101:21 story 62:10 64:7,8 87:18 101:23 121:25 straight 100:7 121:2 Strand 1:3 string 14:19 structured 134:12 Stuart 81:4,4,16 81:18 82:23 83:5 84:9 149:2 Stuart's 62:12 63:4 subject 35:15 50:16 51:15 115:20 117:9 138:20 submitted 87:5 subscription 139:16 subsequent 93:23 substantial 31:21 33:13 successive 90:21 sue 140:18 153:19 sued 130:7 suffer 110:2 sufficient 66:19 sufficiently 53:2 suggest 46:11,23 47:5,9 57:12 64:13 66:13 74:6,12 79:25 101:17 110:11 110:22 119:5 126:24 135:10 suggested 9:11 38:9 73:19 suggesting 73:16 79:2 84:13 86:10 89:9 90:7 90:18 91:11 126:15,16 133:20 134:15 154:20 suggestion 9:3 50:25 51:3 79:4 80:6 92:8 160:4 suggests 134:8 suing 124:3 140:12 suit 138:20 suitable 124:21 support 62:5,12 63:8 73:14,15 73:15 supported 63:4 92:15 supportive 119:8 suppose 133:7 supposed 26:21 26:23,24 30:6,9 53:21 64:25 153:12 supposing 32:20 62:14 sure 14:3 34:22 47:24 53:6 62:17 63:23 69:18,19 74:17 74:18 82:6 89:7 117:16 122:11 122:13 Surely 140:14 surprise 15:11,12 surprised 163:2 surprising 114:25 Swahili 2:20,22 4:14 96:10 swear 111:3 swearing 128:23 SWORN 1:5 sympathy 44:18 73:18,19,20 T T 89:22,23 tab 11:15,16 41:17 43:10 59:12 61:14 67:10,13,13 70:3 75:2 80:19 86:19 93:12 103:20 107:4 111:18 116:18 125:5 131:3,4,4 138:13 149:15 149:19 tabloids 4:4
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
7:4 147:12 shark 139:25 152:18 shillings 73:8 86:22,25 shock 129:14 shocked 30:5 97:10 100:2 101:5,8,9 103:13,15,16,17 shocking 91:11 92:2 97:21 104:21 115:7,12 118:23 shockingly 117:2 117:12,14 short 49:25 50:8 85:3 124:25 137:11 shorter 163:3,5,6 shortly 74:3 137:20 show 4:5 15:11 76:2,10,22,24 77:2,5 79:10 106:23 154:10 showed 42:15 79:6 Siasa 150:17 sibling 42:13 sic 69:12 sick 73:15 125:16 side 14:13,17 18:9 19:21 52:25 53:2 55:10 59:11 60:10,11 62:10,11 78:21 101:20 113:13 121:25 135:10 162:25 sides 59:25 60:9 78:16,24 79:2 86:15 sign 42:15 signature 1:25 2:3 14:8,9,10,11 16:17 signed 11:7 13:15 14:20 112:12 149:12 significant 32:21 Silverdale 6:10 7:9,14 8:3 9:24 14:6 16:24 17:15 35:13,22 38:12 43:15 50:17 51:15 52:4,6,17,22 61:21 75:10,11 75:14 77:9,23
80:13,16 81:8 82:8 84:18 85:25 86:24 91:5,6 102:14 125:13 132:17 134:19,21 137:18 138:5 140:7,23 142:12 Silverdale/Midd... 96:11,13 similar 47:20 156:19 Similarly 30:9 simple 52:11 54:13 65:20 103:25 simply 33:13 57:13 65:3 101:3 117:10 sincere 80:22 85:5 sink 162:22 sister 2:19 sit 38:13 47:2,3 60:3 site 122:14 160:20 situation 75:22 six 23:13,16 24:16 41:6,6 size 5:11 slightly 24:24 slim 11:10 small 4:4 24:14 smallest 147:23 smear 151:19,21 153:5 156:23 157:13,15,23 161:15 162:3 smooth 73:17 74:10 social 86:22 87:7 societies 89:21 softened 80:12 solicitors 18:16 20:5,6 123:15 131:11 132:15 134:13,16,24 135:17 136:13 136:19 137:6 solution 41:24 45:7,9 46:24 47:5 56:22 57:10,24 78:15 78:24 somebody 36:7 37:13 73:18 99:3 101:12 117:25 126:16 141:17 145:19 somewhat 163:3 son 79:7 100:12
122:3 son's 8:21 sorry 4:12 13:10 14:13 30:2 34:6 37:21 38:25 51:2,19 52:5,8 58:14,18 59:13 60:21 61:11,12 61:25 65:18 67:20 68:22 73:21,25 74:25 76:8 87:13 88:3 93:13 95:24 96:12 98:23 102:5 103:18 109:9 112:2,3 112:21 120:24 122:12,19,20,21 125:24 126:12 139:12 141:15 142:18 143:3 149:23 154:2 156:25 159:14 160:22 161:20 163:6 sort 5:10 10:5,20 16:11,12 27:15 37:2 38:6,10 45:3 47:5,16 60:8 72:19,22 73:16 88:20 sorted 78:18 sound 34:12 source 130:12 145:15 south 22:15 speak 37:16 42:11 47:14 59:21 62:8 77:13 86:2 109:17 114:18 speaking 42:5 114:18 specific 10:7 161:21 Specifically 7:9 specify 9:10 136:13 speculating 160:7 speculation 146:12,14 148:11 speed 162:21 spelt 4:13 spend 23:9 27:6 28:11,16 79:11 98:6 104:10 160:16 spending 30:5 spent 9:23 79:13 spirited 90:19 spoke
12:16 36:17 41:13,23 47:9 77:11 112:18 spoken 80:21 86:5 86:17 111:8 staff 31:12,17,22 48:13 59:18 97:3,4 117:10 118:2 stage 7:25 134:19 stages 33:25 staircase 25:3 stamp 94:23 95:8 stamped 94:14,17 96:7 stand 44:4 154:23 156:4 standards 64:17 65:4,21 66:14 66:23 92:11 100:20 standing 118:2 stapled 96:17 start 7:10 22:3 81:12 82:7 93:12 145:14 162:23 started 35:13 50:2 87:6 156:22 starts 141:16 state 73:22 74:6 91:11 92:2 97:21 115:7 118:23 stated 2:4 99:13 99:16 140:7,11 statement 1:12,16 1:24 2:4 3:23 4:20 5:13 10:22 17:4 41:15,17 45:6 50:13,15 54:14,18 58:22 60:19,21,22,23 61:2,8,10 64:18 67:10 68:12,16 71:11 74:24 107:4,9,10,13 107:24 132:19 133:8 150:23 statements 17:19 37:11 99:24 132:16 133:6 159:24 state-owned 4:8,9 station 125:20 126:20 127:10 status 20:6 stay 23:13 40:12 stayed 123:3 stealing 52:23 Stenograph/Sho...
TEL: (020) 7067 2900
FAX: (020) 7831 6864
MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 178] 68:12 70:14 77:25 80:8 81:6 81:7 83:2 90:25 109:8,8,10 110:23 111:14 111:17 112:22 112:23 114:9 115:5,5 127:17 138:8 tomorrow 135:20 160:12 162:9,11 162:11,13,15,15 163:10,12,13 top 11:13,14 14:7 14:22 15:14 59:11 75:4,5 96:9 112:5 125:4 136:22 143:15 144:5 145:10,23 150:20 151:19 total 40:23 totally 100:8 transcript 1:15 89:19 transpired 39:7 42:17 trash 88:14 trashes 91:13 trees 90:4 92:25 trial 122:8 tried 44:6 126:23 trouble 13:21 101:25 102:3 troubled 74:11 true 2:4 9:14,15 15:17,18 16:12 17:9,10 20:20 34:25 42:10 70:16,21 72:5 72:12,21 74:16 82:16,16 83:7 88:17 110:2 120:8 154:4,5 155:20 156:7 161:16,17,25 trumped 54:24 55:18,20 56:9 56:24 58:5 59:13,16 79:5 84:15 trumped-up 78:10 79:20 81:11 trust 6:4,6,7 34:8 101:15 120:17 truth 32:17 40:17 41:3 48:2,2 91:24 98:7 108:19 109:2,17 110:3 111:2 137:11 142:4 truthful 60:8 try 3:18 7:22 29:15 66:18 86:3 154:10 trying 36:24 52:20 53:17 129:21 139:15 Tuesday 1:4 turn 11:15 158:9 turned 90:11 120:18 turnover 13:14,21 two 4:10 5:11 6:17 8:5,17 11:7 12:2 17:22 24:23,24 25:4,5 28:21 29:2 34:21 35:9 40:13 41:6 53:7 54:8,13,17 56:4 56:8 57:8,19 59:25 60:9 73:7 77:21 85:2 102:7,22 112:8 127:18 131:7 132:13 141:16 151:4 162:24 U Uhuriu 4:11,13,14 UK 125:16 142:3 ultimatum 86:24 unable 76:4 unbiased 3:19 uncensored 3:24 unconditionally 81:4,17 82:2 84:10 uncontroversial 15:14 underlined 15:4,5 15:17 70:14 understand 12:19 12:23 26:4 32:20,23,25 38:21 42:3 44:2 46:3,4,5,8,21 47:12 50:11 54:11 64:23 75:22 87:9,13 88:17 118:10 126:21,21 137:5 141:12 142:19 143:25 145:4 153:14,21 155:7 155:12,14 understandable 61:23 62:2 understanding 57:20 82:21 understands
LONDON, WC2A 1HP
take 23:16 41:11 41:16 43:8 44:4 49:25 54:16 59:10 78:21 81:20 83:11 85:19 86:18 91:20 100:19 101:15 106:18 107:3 112:24 116:7,8,17,20 119:11 120:19 122:22,22 124:21 125:3 135:3 149:5,14 160:17,19,25 161:3,9 162:6 taken 11:24 51:14 78:24 79:2 87:24 119:12 takes 31:8 89:20 99:15 133:7 talk 36:19,22,25 38:23 39:2,5 42:11,18 43:5 44:21,24 45:2 46:16 47:3,15 47:15 50:2 53:16,20 56:5 56:15,19,21 57:7,23 58:10 59:22 60:3 62:7 78:14,22 79:24 81:22 82:13,14 95:5 163:11 talked 56:18 talking 44:16,17 51:13 64:2 77:20 81:24 82:22 83:4 87:2 tamper 10:12 63:17 64:11 65:2,8,11,25 66:8,18 68:10 68:13 69:4,23 88:22 89:10 91:17 92:6,13 92:17 100:5 101:6,24 105:10 107:23 114:22 116:5 122:2,17 123:19 130:25 tampering 40:18 69:9 98:19 123:2 Tanzania 2:13 4:2 4:7,16,17,22 5:6 5:24 16:4,16,23 17:23 21:5 22:18 30:16 48:16,20 60:14
94:7 112:4 113:14 118:17 128:12 132:17 137:22 139:17 140:23 141:6 147:19 148:18 150:4 153:25 155:9 160:8 Tanzanian 20:12 73:8 141:7 Tanzania's 36:2 tarnish 138:2,18 Tarnished 139:16 telephone 1:16 77:14,15 88:5 telephoned 71:9 television 2:17 24:3 tell 3:22 5:3 19:19 27:14 32:16,24 37:4,10,24 38:14 39:3 40:25 42:4,7 45:2,9 46:10 47:25 48:2 50:19 51:19,22 52:11 54:10 56:17 58:11 59:2 64:6 65:11 66:9 77:24 95:15 101:14 109:25 111:11 111:14 112:14 114:7 115:16 118:18 124:8 126:25 127:14 147:13 155:21 162:14 163:7 telling 28:21 34:24 36:21 85:14 87:18 91:24 105:6 108:19 110:3 111:3,17 126:9 126:15 146:17 tells 81:16 temper 43:4 ten 77:20 140:19 tending 125:16 terms 23:12 35:7 37:23 73:4,13 thank 2:10 9:15 11:21 16:14 46:18,20 50:6,7 84:2 89:9,17 92:12,20 100:22 112:3 138:24 139:2 159:5 thereabouts 41:20 95:21 thick
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MENGI v HERMITAGE
6 NOVEMBER 2012
PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 179] 130:6 131:11 153:2 written 2:8 11:8 11:15 13:14 14:11,22 15:15 15:21 20:5 40:18 46:3 72:5 75:6 86:18 87:17 94:13 99:4 104:12 108:11 118:11 120:6 123:22 128:5,7 131:21 159:6,7,22 wrong 53:4 56:16 61:9,11 65:8 68:20 93:13 95:16 100:15 114:13 126:17 130:7 137:17 wrongly 120:18 120:19 wrote 12:2 13:6 18:17 69:25 70:7 79:9,10 97:18 124:17 127:3,17 Y year 5:10 16:20 23:12 32:13 60:14,25 73:9 129:15 152:4,25 years 3:5 8:20 125:14 yesterday 18:23 18:25 141:6,13 Ynanci 41:9 42:22 Ynanki 39:15,16 York 65:16 young 6:19 7:23 44:19 79:10 80:15 112:16 Yousef 139:15 141:4,20 143:18 152:5 153:6 Ys 36:6 Yussif 17:23 Z Zanzibar 22:15 0 020 1:16 1 1 1:23 15:16 61:14 92:21 1HP 1:16 1m 129:17 1st 1:15 1.2 11:12 59:10 61:13 70:2 74:20,25 80:18 93:11,12 103:18 125:4 149:15,17 10 5:13 77:22 129:17 10th 140:25 10-minute 124:22 10.30 163:12,13 106 41:18,18,19 107 41:22 108 50:13 11 107:13 138:18 138:23 11th 125:10 127:13 132:5 111 54:14,18,19 61:10,16 111(A) 55:23 12 49:25 12th 127:3,14 131:17 129 20:10 13th 8:7 9:16 15:20 79:8 14th 79:9 15 43:17 67:10,13 67:13 77:22 90:13 16th 12:5 20:4 79:10 18 87:22 102:11 19th 14:20 69:25 89:14,19 92:4 103:19 108:11 150:20 159:9 160:17 161:11 196 11:16 59:14 59:14 197 80:19 199 11:12 13:14 93:13 94:13,21 1992 2:12 3:15,22 2 2 1:9 41:16 43:9 43:10 45:16 54:16 61:12,14 67:9,11 107:3,4 136:16 158:16 2LL 1:3 2nd 92:22 94:17 94:19,24 95:9 95:12,16,21,25 2.4 132:22,23 2.5 132:24 2/3/06 94:19 20 104:9 200 99:10 2000 90:2
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2004 87:20 2005 7:10,16 8:7 8:21 9:2 14:24 16:5 35:14,15 35:23 39:11 43:11 87:20 128:13 140:6 2006 11:5 13:23 86:19 92:22 94:17,19,25 95:9,12,25 102:12 111:22 112:5 116:22 2007 116:22 2008 5:16 2009 138:21 139:3 139:8 2010 15:21 16:15 30:20 31:11,11 32:2,15 123:7 125:10 131:17 150:21 160:14 160:18 2011 32:7 2012 1:4 20:4 203 13:22 74:23 75:2 93:14 101:2 205 14:19 70:3,5 103:21 207 104:19 209 125:5,6 127:16 21 116:18 211 15:19 127:2 212 149:21 213 151:19 214 156:20 157:3 159:9 216 16:15 159:11 22nd 41:20 43:11 23 107:11 23rd 16:15 233 111:24 24 3:22 24th 94:6,13,15 95:20 97:10,18 25 90:13 124:24 25th 13:23 75:5 103:24 107:17 25,000 147:25 148:19 253 111:18,25 112:2 257 112:7 270 22:12 28 131:6 2900 1:16 3 3 43:9,10 47:19
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Mengi V Hermitage 2102 Trial Transcript

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MENGI v HERMITAGE

PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 2]

IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION

Claim No: HQ10D04585

REGINALD MENGI Claimant -andSARAH HERMITAGE Defendant ----------

4 MR JUSTICE BEAN: Yes.

7 Q. Mr. Mengi, you may find it convenient to move the chair

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6 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 4]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 6]

19 Q. You have in paragraphs, I think it is 4-11 of your witness

23 A. Yes. 24 Q. My question is this: one of those activities is charitable 25

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6 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 8]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 10]

him to see whether he could help them to resolve the dispute

taken place at the meeting? 25 A. Yes.

[3] (Pages 8 to 11)

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PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 14]

[4] (Pages 12 to 15)

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6 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 16]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 18]

MENGI - RAMPTON conspiracy, I think, was it not?

defamation by Ms. Hermitage against you?

7 A. Yes. 8 Q. That is the nature of the claim. You have agreed, I 9 10 11 12

13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Before we look at that, why did you discontinue proceedings 15 17 18 20

16 A. I consulted my solicitors in London and after getting the

[5] (Pages 16 to 19)

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6 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 20]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 22]

MENGI - RAMPTON would hope to achieve by these proceedings in England?

been saying about you?

9 Q. How much time do you spend in Moshi?

14 MR. JUSTICE BEAN: Yes. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

without going to Moshi, to the plant.

to Moshi. the seventh floor?

Marketing and the Legal departments?

23 A. Yes. 24 Q. The Guardian newspapers are produced on an industrial estate 25

about five or so miles away. Is that right?

[6] (Pages 20 to 23)

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PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 26]

[7] (Pages 24 to 27)

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6 NOVEMBER 2012 [Page 28]

PROCEEDINGS DAY 1 [Page 30]

and Mr. Nguma?

Mr. Nguma. I am not his keeper.

25 Q. Do you know or do you not?

[8] (Pages 28 to 31)

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