Interview with Robert Hanyok, former National Security Agency employee and author of multiple books, including Catching

the Fox Unaware: Japanese Radio Denial and Deception and the Attack on Pearl Harbor, and West Wind Clear: Cryptology and the Winds Message Controversy -- A Documentary History. This interview only pertained to PURPLE diplomatic messages and an overview of cryptology during the Second World War rather than JN-25 which were more crucial to the outcome of the Pacific War. Student: In your opinion, how did code PURPLE affect WWII's outcome and our lives today? Robert Hanyok: Difficult to answer quickly. Much has been written in histories and the press about PURPLE, and in a way it has become the poster child for WWII cryptology (at least for the Americans). The reality, though, is quite different. Aside from the brief "window" PURPLE allowed into Japan's prewar diplomatic maneuvers with the United States, PURPLE's actual contribution to the war effort was far more limited in scope and effectiveness. After Pearl Harbor, as many Japanese diplomatic missions were shut down, PURPLE allowed the Allies a limited peek into Axis policies - only as much as Japanese diplomats reported them. Some PURPLE, mostly from the Japanese Ambassador to Nazi Germany, Oshima Hiroshi, gave the Allies a look into Hitler's expectations for a second front invasion in the West, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, and some insight into Japanese policy towards conquered nations. However, this intelligence was mostly extra data to solid information gleaned from Enigma decrypt, low-level codes, and Allied agents. For the second part of this question, certainly the publicity surrounding the American success in exploiting PURPLE did help convince American leadership of the importance of code breaking and making secure American codes. Student: In your opinion, did the purple code affect modern cryptology? Robert Hanyok: I dont think that breaking of PURPLE had that much effect on modern cryptology. The technical advance in the Japanese PURPLE cipher machine was in the use of telephone switches. But this technology was, technically, a minor advance over the design of PURPLEs predecessor system, known as the RED machine. The real advances were in the technical and mathematicalapproaches to solving the German Enigma device. The first automated devices, the bombes and Colossus, represented the application of modern math and machines technology that eventually led to the development of the modern computer, especially in the work of the English mathematics genius and code breaker, Alan Turing.

Student: Why was cryptology so important in WWII and so important today? Robert Hanyok: The importance of cryptology to the outcome of World War II has been revised in the past few years. Originally, in the flush of the first reports, many of which were exaggerations by people not familiar with cryptology, it was believed that cryptology won the war. In truth, though, once all of the war was considered, cryptologys importance was lessened. yes, it helped in certain battles, but even in those, such as Midway, codebreaking did not lead to the critical choices in the battle. And cryptology, except in the low-level, tactical arena, was of little importance in the main front of the war the Russian front. Cryptology allowed the Allies to economize on the use of its forces, thereby lowering casualties and material losses, such as in the Battle of the Atlantic against the U-boats, but advances in sonar, radar-equipped aircraft and more escorts proved as, if not more, critical to the outcome. Cryptology was very helpful and may have even shortened the war, but there were many other factors as important or even more so to the Allied victory. Student: Generally, how and why is cryptology used today? Robert Hanyok: Because of my former employment with the National Security Agency, I really cannot comment on this question except at the most general level. The best I can say, is that cryptology is importance for securing our secret communications from enemies of the US, as well as learning their secrets, plans, and organizations. Student: How does cryptology improve our nation's security? Robert Hanyok: I think the most important aspect of cryptology for our nations defense is in securing our communications and control systems and preventing enemies from learning our secrets or controlling critical elements of the infrastructure of the United states. Student: Could you explain the difference between a code and a cipher and tell me why it was important that PURPLE was a cipher? Robert Hanyok: Codes and ciphers are the two systems for concealing communications (aside from steganography which uses pictures to conceal messages). A code is a method in which arbitrary groups of letters, numbers, or other symbols replace words, phrases, letters, or numbers for the purpose of concealment or brevity. A cipher is a method of concealing plaintext by transposing letters or numbers or by substituting other letters or numbers according to a key, which is a set of instructions, usually in the form of other letters or numbers, which controls the sequence of the encryption of text or the decryption of a cipher back to the original plaintext. A written language is a code of sorts, since the written symbols substitute for the languages sounds. A cipher is a bit more complicated and analogies usually do not help. I would suggest you go to this URL at the NSA web site which is for my book, West Wind Clear. On page 18 (42) on the PDF count)t gives an

example of a transposition cipher and its key: http://www.nsa.gov/about/_files/cryptologic_heritage/publications/wwii/west_wind_cle ar.pdf For a description of the US (and British) codebreaking organizations and processes, try chapter 2 of my book on the Holocaust: http://www.nsa.gov/about/_files/cryptologic_heritage/publications/wwii/eavesdropping. pdf Student: Could you describe the assets of Station Hypo in the context of WWII? Robert Hanyok: There were few assets available to the US navy for intercept and code breaking in 941. The targets were numerous and resources few, even in Washington. There was also the fact that the Roosevelt administration had determined that Nazi Germany was the primary target for our code breakers. Hypo was given a cryptologic target the Flag Officers Code, which was considered the primary code protecting important Japanese Navy communications. That Hypo was unable to exploit the system was due to technical difficulties and not its position as a back up. Hypos was a new station, coming on line in mid-1941, but it was established as the support to the navys fleet command in Hawaii and this was in support of the Pacific Fleet and all the nearby bases.