Bible Questions List 10

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What is the difference between a Post-Tribulation Rapture theory and no Rapture at all? What does Jesus mean by "a thief in the night"? Where is satan today? Is the Throne of God guarded and why? Can Christians fellowship with the apostate Catholic Church, and what is the Sabbath day NOW?

Question #8 Can Christians fellowship with the apostate Catholic Church, and what is the Sabbath day NOW? Diane asks: Is it okay to go a catholic church even though I am not catholic-just to be with a friend. My friend wanted me to go with her because she is a friend of mine and wanted me to pray with her. I Don't want to do anything to get our Father mad at me. HOW do you handle a situation when you have friends of other denominations?? Also, the 4th commandment, remember the sabbath day to keep it holy?? Please explain as my friends say it pertains to not working on Sunday but CHRIST is our Sabbath, so how does one answer that? Thanks Diane

Answer: Hi Diane: Sure you can go wherever you want, the Lord knows what's in your heart. Sure the Catholic Church is overburdened with idol worship, Saint worship, Mother Mary worship, ... But when you are in those places, the Lord knows that you are not worshiping their idols, you're just being a good friend, for your friend may be troubled and she is reaching out to God the only way she ever knew. Our Father looks at intent, it's all about what's in your heart, He is a Heart Knower!'

Perhaps the Lord is using you to reach your friend, or perhaps the Lord wants you to observe first hand the blatant idolatry (you will be shocked)! so that you can speak knowledge when you discuss with a Catholic about the error of their church. They will tell you that they don't worship Mother Mary - they only reverence her - It's the same thing, as you shall see when you watch them bow down and kiss the idols, light candles to them, offer Roses and gifts to the 'Queen of Heaven': Jer 44:25-27 (God speaking) 25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. 26 Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth. 27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them. (KJV)

The 'Queen of Heaven': Pope Pius XII (1939-58), a Pope many today still remember,described Mary as 'Queen of Heaven'. It was he, on November 1st 1950, who proclaimed ex-Cathedra 'from the seat' (infallibly) that Mary's body was raised from the grave shortly after shedied, and she was taken up and enthroned as 'Queen of Heaven.' At St. Peter Square on Easter Day 1988, Pope John Paul II's message included a prayer: "to the Queen of Heaven for protection and peace in the world." The only references to befound in Scripture of the 'Queen of Heaven' relate to theCanaanite pagan goddess to whom the Israelites burned incense,made cakes and poured out drink offerings, and who was detestable and wicked in the eyes of the Lord. While the veneration with which Mary, the Mother of Christ, is regarded by the Catholic church is indicated in various indirect ways, for example by the large nimbus, such as may be seen in the pictures of the Crucifixion in the Rabulas manuscript of A.D. 586. As early as A.D. 540 we find a mosaic in which she sits enthroned as Queen of Heaven in the centre of the apex of the cathedral of Parenzo in Austria, which was constructed at that date by Bishop Euphrasius. CC (Catechism) 966: "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as QUEEN over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.' [LG 59; cf. Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus (1950): DS 3903; cf. Rev 19:16.] The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth

you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death." [Byzantine Liturgy, Troparion, Feast of the Dormition, August 15th.] I wouldn't try to dump a whole lot on your friend all at once, but after going with her to her Catholic church while she prays to dead 'Pope appointed Saints' and the deceased woman Mother Mary, you might afterwards invite her for coffee and gently tell her that she needn't have gone there to speak to God, God can hear her just fine in the privacy of her own bedroom, she needn't go to some grand church building and take a spot on a pew with the others, she can pray alone, that's what God really wants from us. Not Hail Mary, after Hail Mary, after Hail Mary, ... Matt 6:5-7 (Jesus Christ speaking) 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. (KJV) She doesn't know any better, but you do, so you can go and sit with her if it means that much to her, but you should not bow down to the images and idols and pray to any other besides God. For if you know better, then you will be judged for that. Your Catholic friend has been taught to pray to this Saint or that Saint, or, to pray to the deceased mother of Messiah (I wish they would let her rest in peace, they really do her a disservice by making a virtual goddess out her - It's the ultimate insult to her memory and Christ's as well!!!). But Jesus Christ, our Savior, He told us how we should pray, and to whom we should pray to: Matt 6:9-13 (Jesus speaking) 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (KJV) Tell her that you will go with her because she is your friend and it seems important to her, but tell her that really feel uncomfortable because you know that it is against what our Heavenly Father has told us in the First and Second Commandments. You might show her this Scripture below, for in her Catholic Catechism they jimmy' the Ten Commandments to allow their idol worship. The combine the First and Second Commandment to make it look like it is only speaking against other

gods, and not their Saints and Mother Mary, and their idols and statues and images,... Then they split the Tenth Commandment into two (the 9th and 10th) so they can still end up with ten:

Exod 20:3-6 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (First Commandment) 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (KJV) (Second Commandment) Below is the Tenth Commandment, but in the Catholic Church, through their Catechism (teaching), it is divided into two Commandments, the Ninth and Tenth - so that they still can get ten all together -- tricky huh? Exod 20:17 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (KJV) (Tenth Commandment) I would only go once to enable you the opportunity to witness the truth to her, and most certainly do not pray to the statues of dead people or idols! But be polite, and you can say your own prayer to God, even from the Pew of that Catholic Church. Ask Him to lead you as far as what to say, and what not to say, to your friend about what's going on. But don't lose a friend over it, and don't lose yourself over it either. Pray to our Father for guidance, He will lead you in all matters that you trust Him with. A Christian can go anywhere the want because the lord is with them, a Christian strong in the faith and love of Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father the Lord God need not fear, they could walk among the very demons of hell and not be tainted nor touched. For those who truly love the lord and keep His ways are protected always anywhere (but we do exercise common sense as well). And don't let your going somewhere mislead someone into thinking that they are doing right in the eyes of the lord when they are not. In other words, I personally would not go except to use the opportunity to witness Jesus Christ and the Gospel to that friend -- or else why go?

As regarding your question about the Sabbath Day: Actually, the Sabbath was on Saturday not Sunday, the Catholic Church changed it to Sunday which was pagan in origin (Sunday = the day of the sun -- sun worship). I don't know how far you wish to take it about the pagan practices of the Catholic Church regarding sun worship, but, on the altar during Mass, the priest retrieves the Eucharist (Communion Bread) from a round golden holder with the Eucharist fitted into the center. That holder is a sunburst. Take a look on Sunday Catholic Television services where the camera does a close-up of the altar (EWTN is the all-Catholic network on most cable carriers, and you can view it there). That sunburst even has the sun rays engraved into it. It is pagan in origin (the sun god Ra) and an insult to God. Also, the Catholic Eucharist is a disc, this is not always the shape of the Communion bread, there is also a 'biscuit' Eucharist which is shaped like a little loaf. The Catholic Church instituted to disc shaped Eucharist -- take a guess why - It's a mini-sun. I could go on and on, even mentioning the 'IHS' stamped into the disc, or transubstantiation but you get the point. The Catholic Church is Christian only in pretense. But I don't know how much of this you would want to lay on your friend all at once. PS: The Hebrews, to this very day, keep the original Sabbath day (Saturday). Jesus Christ became our Sabbath (Sabbath means 'rest'). So when the Bible says to keep the Sabbath forever, we Christians do keep it, but we can have that Sabbath (rest) everyday. Matt 11:28-30 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (KJV) Many things were accomplished at the crucifixion, another one of them was circumcision. Circumcision is now of the heart and includes women: Rom 2:25-29 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (KJV)

PS: If you take Mass (receive Communion) the priest will say to as he hands you the disc (wafer) "This is the body of Christ" or shortened to: "body of Christ." You then are required to say Amen (which means: "That's the way it is."). What he is saying is that the wafer has actually become the literal flesh of Jesus Christ instead of just representing it. This is called transubstantiation and is unique to Catholicism, and they re-crucify Christ every Sunday, and then in true pagan form they vicariously perform cannibalism. The whole Catholic Church is a hell hole (sorry). So when the priest hands it to you (or places it on your tongue), tell him Amen, but then in your mind tell God that it only REPRESENTS the body of Christ - and it will then be a good Communion between you and Christ Jesus. God understands that if you don't answer the priest he will withhold our Saviors Communion from you -- nice, huh? Shades of the Inquisitions. Don't get me going on the Catholic Church Diane (I mean that lightheartedly). PSS: I used to be a Catholic from a young lad up -- until I read the Bible instead of the Catholic Catechism that is! Related studies on Catholicism: Mother Mary Apparitions: The hidden dark side Read about the apparitions the Church isn't telling you! The History of Christianity (Roman) The historical formation and progress of Christianity; from the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ on through the origin of the different Christian denominations, up to our modern day Christianity, then on through the prophesied 'Great' Apostasy of the book of Revelation, and into the Second Advent of the Messiah Jesus Christ. Some chapter headings: The events of the life and times of Jesus Christ / The development of Christianity into the different denominations / The Catholic Popes / The Jesuit Priesthood / The reformation / Persecutions / The Rapture 'Doctrine' / A look at Biblical prophecy future yet / Conclusion, what we can each do on an individual level. For the history of the British Church, the first Christian Church, see: The first Christian Church A.D. 37: at Glastonbury; Britain (below). Do Catholics Worship the Mother Mary? And if they do, is it against God's Word? It has been said that actions speak louder than words. And while the average Catholic may tell you that they do not worship the Mother Mary, their actions say something quite different. Let's examine the danger in this. Foremost of all, it must be stated that we do not intend to disrespect the Mother of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! We recognize her as a highly moral woman, who while yet being a virgin, conceived the Messiah Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God. It is our endeavor to lay bare the evidence that the Roman Catholic Church has erred in elevating Mother Mary to a status that is blasphemous even, and in doing so, places all Catholic lay-persons in danger of worshipping her as a goddess figure. This of course, as we shall show, is against the whole of God's command. EXPOSING THE EMERGENCE OF THE FIRST BEAST OF REVELATION CHAPTER 13 For a deeper understanding of how the 'first beast' will manifest itself. And how current events are shaping up for the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. Bye-bye, and God bless you!

Nick

Question #6

Is the Throne of God guarded and why?

Lloyd asks: About the protectors or guardians of the mercy seat in the first world age. What was the reason for these guards and from what was the mercy seat being protected? Lloyd Answer: Attack!!! The Mercy Seat, as well as the very Throne of God is always protected! Since you mention the first earth age I assume that you know what happened to cause God to destroy that age and then cause our present one to be. But for the benefit of a newer student I will briefly touch on it. In the first earth age (chronologically occurring between {Gen 1:1 and 1:2} (actually in the middle of verse 2) we were all with God in spiritual bodies: "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy" {Job 38:7}. Job 38:4-7 (God speaking to Job) 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (KJV)

Satan, then called Lucifer, rebelled against God and drew one-third of God's children, us (the whole Host: "Host of Heaven" {Gen 2:1}. "morning stars" {Job 38:7}. "stars of Heaven" {Rev 12:4}) with him in an overthrow attempt against God, mentioned in {Rev 12:4a (first half of verse 4)}. God put down the rebellion and abruptly terminated that first earth age {Jer 4:23-26 & 2nd Peter 3:5-6}, and paved the way for this second earth age (our present one) {Jer 4:27 & 2nd Peter 3:7}.

In this second earth age we are all born of woman innocent of any sin from before, nor can we see beyond the 'veil' back into the first earth (though some have flashes. Have you ever felt like

something happened before?) and we are to decide whether to follow God through Jesus Christ or satan through the world. This is NOT reincarnation! There is no such thing as reincarnation! We can only pass through each earth age once: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" {Heb 9:27}. There is very little written of that first earth age, but there are some things about it in the Scriptures. See:

When was The beginning? Learn when the true beginning of creation was, and of the three Earth ages. Discover why God had to destroy the first Earth Age.

The Mercy Seat is depicted on the Ark of the Covenant with two Cherubim's (protecting angels) on the lid.

Exod 25:18-21 (God speaking) 18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. (KJV) Cherubim are a class of Angels, satan was a Cherubim before pride made him fall. Yes, satan once protected the Mercy Seat in Heaven, but he didn't want to protect the Mercy Seat, he wanted to sit on it, as Christ, as God: Ezek 28:12-19 (God speaking) 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus [another of satan's many many names] , and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. [perished - gone completely (though not yet fulfilled) Hence, another of satan's many names: "the son of perdition" {2nd Thes 2:3}] (KJV) In Heaven, the throne of God is also protected and seved by another class of Angels, these are called "Zoon" in the Greek, but is translated to "beasts" in the English Bible. Do not confuse these with evil beasts, for these 'beasts' are good: Rev 4:6-9 6 And before the throne [of God in Heaven] there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. 7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. 8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever (KJV) Does that help answer your question? I know this isn't commonly taught, but then, a lot of things in God's Word aren't commonly taught in the corrupted end-time churches. I trust that the Scriptures themselves answered your question.

God Bless!

Nick WBSG

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Question #5 | Back to top |

Where is satan today?

RW asks:

How can satan be on earth (Job 1:7) and be in Heaven chained by Michael?

Answer:

Hello RW:

As you correctly state, satan WAS on earth {Job 1:7}, but he is now incarcerated in Heaven by Archangel Michael {Rev 12:7}. I understand your question, but when were the events in Job, and when are the events in Revelation? You have to "rightly divide the Word" {2nd Tim 2:15} as to time frames when the various events occur.

The book of Job is actually the oldest book in the Bible (See: The Companion Bible; in the preface to the book of Job).

Satan used to be able to roam the earth, but no more! We know that satan was in the Garden of Eden (as the serpent), and then as you state, we saw him again in the book of Job. When he was taken out and imprisoned in Heaven is not clear, but some feel that it was in {Mt chpt 4 & Lk chpt. 4} when, after tempting Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus told satan: "Get thee hence, Satan" {Mt 4:10}. I feel that is reasonable. Jesus tells satan the get "hence", which means "get behind me". Jesus is now in Heaven, so if satan is behind Him, then satan is in Heaven (incarcerated by Archangel Michael {Rev 12:7}).

Matt 4:10-11 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. (KJV)

God Bless!

Nick

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Question #4 | Back to top |

What does Jesus mean by "a thief in the night"?

Jane states:

I see what your saying, and I beg to differ extremely with you. The thief in the night to me is the rapture of the church, nothing else. After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected.

Matthew 24:30 - See Also Zechariah 12:10-14. This refers to His 2nd Coming with the Saints old and the raptured saints. See Also Zechariah 14:5 - We come back with him at that time.

Answer:

Hello Jane:

You wrote:

"I see what your saying, and I beg to differ extremely with you. The thief in the night to me is the rapture of the church, nothing else. After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected."

Jane, the 'thief in the night' Scripture {1st Thes 5:2; 2nd pet 3:10} is reference to the Second Advent, not some Rapture. Besides, we expect Jesus to come even now, does that mean He won't come because we expect it? You seem to be reasoning that He can't come "as a thief" (unexpectedly) because: "After the 7 years, we do expect him anyway so to me that is not a thief, a thief is unexpected." Christina, that 'doesn't hold water' my friend.

What you are trying to do is to force a Rapture in the Scriptures that is simply not there. Take all your thoughts on the matter, and pretend for a moment that there isn't going to be a Rapture they will all make sense to you then. The Scriptures cannot contradict and do not each other. Allow

me to share an excerpt about the "thief in the night" Scripture. This work isn't mine, but I agree with it and don't feel that it can be improved upon:

By Dave Ramey:

"Concerning Jesus coming as 'a thief in the night', just WHO will it be like that to? Isn't that an analogy for when a 'thief' is trying to break into your home at midnight, where one is spiritually watching and ready, while the other is surprised because they are spiritually asleep? If that's not what the 'thief in the night' analogy is about, then what did Paul mean with the following:

1Thes 5:1-4 1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. (KJV)

So WHO will this 'sudden destruction' and this 'travail' be upon? Isn't it for those who are not spiritually awake at midnight, not knowing the 'times and seasons' of our Lord's coming?

1 Thes 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (KJV)

And with this verse by Paul, isn't it to those of God's elect who will be aware of the main subject of 'times of seasons' of Christ's return? Therefore, as Paul stressed in this verse 4, Christ's coming will be no surprise to His true followers, for they are aware of the 'signs' and events ('times and seasons') our Lord taught us all throughout His Word." (End of excerpt)

What Dave was politely saying above is that those who are waiting for a Rapture are going to follow the first supernatural being who comes to earth claiming to be The Messiah from God. The only problem is that satan comes first as the antichrist claiming to be the Messiah BEFORE the true Jesus Christ returns at the Second Advent. The Rapturist however, will not know this and will end up worshiping the wrong one. So then when the true Jesus Christ returns at His Second Advent, He will be 'quite the surprise' to the Rapturist (among many others of course).

Ok Jane, then then you supply:

"Matthew 24:30 (1)- See Also Zechariah 12:10-14 (2). This refers to His 2nd Coming with the Saints old and the raptured saints. See Also Zechariah 14:5 (3)- We come back with him at that time."

Oh, really? Let's look at each one:

(1). Matthew 24:30: Ok Jane, come-now. You supply verse 30 and attribute it to a rapture, but WHEN does verse 30 happen?!?!? look at verse 29!

Matt 24:29-30 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (KJV)

Jane, you simply can't take this Scripture apart and move time sequences to fit a Rapture theory.

(2). Zechariah 12:10-14: Where is a Rapture in this Scripture? It is talking about the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. You should notice a familiar phrase:

Zech 12:10 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (KJV)

Rev 1:7 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye [not just Rapturists!] shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV)

Ps 22:16 16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. (KJV)

John 19:34 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (KJV)

(3). Zechariah 14:5: This is a prophecy of the Second Advent, yes, a 'type'', but you suppose that these "saints" are Rapture "saints" because you have been predisposed to believe that. Saint means ''set-aside one'', chosen ones. Every time the Bible mentions saints you seem to automatically read "Rapture saints", Jane, you cannot force that into Scripture, the context will not allow it. You must clear your head of the false Rapture teachings before you can hope to once again read the Scriptures as they are written. You unconsciously ''taint'' every Second Advent Scripture to mean, not a Second Advent, but a pre-second Advent Rapture that just simply isn't there. And it really does bug me when you Rapturists call yourself "Saints!" But anyway, below is the Scripture you mentioned, how can you read a Rapture in this verse? And you're not alone, stuff like this is what the whole Rapture doctrines are built around. One almost has to want to be deceived to actually go for this stuff!

Zech 14:5 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (KJV)

You are also under the misconception that the dead are still in a hole in the ground in the cemetery, they are not, their souls are with God since the instant of death. It is those among the deceased that were overcommers over the generations that shall return with Christ as "Saints." to help US!

Stick with it Jane, and quit going to the Rapture doctors for Bible instruction or you will continue to make errors like the above. Your doing fine, your looking and asking (or stating), but trust the Scriptures as written, pray to God open them up to understanding, He will. Take your time and check everything I am telling here in your Bible. It is just so difficult to un-teach the misconceptions that have been taught about the Rapture. It is far easier to teach a new student who has no misconceptions firmly planted in his/her mind. But stick with it, what we are doing is pleasing to God, we are acting like those of Berea who found favor: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11). And we are complying with the command: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." {2 Tim 2:15}.

Nick Watchmen Bible Study Group

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Question #3 | Back to top |

What is the difference between a Post-Tribulation Rapture theory and no Rapture at all?

John asks us if we at WBSG believe in a 'Post-Tribulation' Rapture. Below is our answer to him. (PS: the short answer is NO!)

John, You asked if we were Post-Trib Rapture believers. No, we are 'never-rapture'. Jesus Christ comes for ALL God's children, the blessed and the self damned, all at the same time, at the seventh trump "we shall all be changed" {1 Cor 15:51}, at the Second Advent out of the only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture:

1 Cor 15:51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [die prior to Second Advent], but we shall all be changed [ALL those alive at the Second Advent], 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump [the seventh, when Christ returns at his Second Advent]: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [in our spiritual bodies, not rotting to dust like our flesh bodies do - they 'corrupt'], and we shall be changed. (KJV)

There are only two Advents witnessed to in Scripture {Zech 9:9 (First Advent); Zech 9:10 (Second Advent)}. This is also why Jesus, when reading from the book of Isaiah in the Synagogue in {Lk 4:1721} had to stop reading at the middle of verse {Isa 61:2} when He was reading the Scripture that spoke of Him, because the words that came after "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord" would not be fulfilled until His Second Advent:

Luke 4:17-21 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. (KJV)

Below is the Scripture Christ was referring to, the words in blue bold are the words that He could not finish reading to them at that time and still have been able to say that: "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears" because it will not be fulfilled until the Second Advent:

Isa 61:1-3 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. (KJV)

We at WBSG teach that there is no selective taking out, no partial Second Advent , no presecond ''Advent'' Advent, not three Advents but only two, and the Bible declares the same.

Perhaps if you review your thinking on the matter, you may find that you also do not believe in a Rapture, but rather, you simply believe what the Bible says about the chronology of end-time events:

The Second Advent with Armageddon at that moment & ALL changed to spiritual bodies (still not judged) - man NEVER again in the flesh body. Then the 1000 year Millennium teaching time {Rev 20:1-6}. Then satan loosed a little while to test those taught in Millennium {Rev 20:7-8}. Then God destroys those who follow satan after the Millennium, satan cast into Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as Hell) {Rev 20:9-10}. Then Judgment Day {Rev 20:11-13}. Then all that offend destroyed in Lake of Fire (commonly referred to as Hell) {Rev 20:13-15}. Then the Heaven Age - eternal {Rev 21:1-end of Bible} (till the end time which never ends).

No Rapture in there is there!!!

God Bless!

Question #1

Under revision.

In His Service: Nick Goggin