Sharad V Alwaleed

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Sharab v HRH Prince Alwaleed

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A. 182, yes. Q. Here is an agreement for the acquisition of a Boeing 747 aircraft. It is at page 184, we can see it is dated 15 June 2002. It is between Boeing and Kingdom Holding Company. There is a purchase price at page 186 of $47.6 million. Is that the agreement that you are referring to? A. This is the purchase agreement of my 747, I believe, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: This is the 747 that you owned or the one, the third one, that you were thinking of acquiring? A. Your Lordship, no. This is -- the plane that went to Libya, was 767. This is 747, this is the one that I bought after the Airbus was disposed of. MR FREEDMAN: After the -A. So this 747, that is the plane that I bought after the Airbus was sold. The one that went to Libya was 767. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is my confusion and I apologise for making it even more confusing, but this is the agreement that Mr Freedman will say is inconsistent with paragraph 12. Because the agreement, if anything, that you refer to in paragraph 12 is a year earlier; do you see that? Paragraph 12 you say: "In summer 2001, I decided I would sell one of my
PRINCE ALWALEED BIN TALAL BIN ABDALAZIZ ALSAUD (continued) Cross-examination by MR FREEDMAN (continued) MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes. MR FREEDMAN: Yesterday at the beginning of your evidence you corrected paragraph 12 of your witness statement. Let's look at paragraph 12 if we may. It is in the small bundle of witness statements. You will find it behind tab 3 at page 44. Paragraph 12 read: "In or around summer of 2001 I decided that I would sell one of my large aircraft, either the Airbus or the Boeing, as I had recently entered into an agreement to acquire a new large aircraft and did not require three large aircraft." You corrected that to "an arrangement or a discussion", not "an agreement". Do I take it that the background to your correction is because in the course of the last week there was an application that was made to the court in which it was said that paragraph 12 was not consistent with something that you had written to the Libyans? A. The idea of buying a 747 was there since a long time, but on that particular date there was no agreement finalised for sure, that is why I had to correct it, so
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there was a discussion, and arrangements to see which 747 we can buy from the world. That is why the correction was made. Q. Were you aware that there had been pointed out to the court a week ago that there was a discrepancy in timing between the agreement referred to in paragraph 12 that was in or around the summer of 2001, or just before then, and what you had told the Libyans. Were you aware of that? A. You have to explain, please. Q. I'm just asking whether you were aware that paragraph 12 had caused controversy in the courts a week ago? A. No. Q. Did you know about that or not? A. No. Q. You didn't. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think it is fairer to the Prince, if you put the Libyan thing to him. MR FREEDMAN: I'm going to do that now. But before I do that, I want to put to you the agreement that was actually produced. If you would look at bundle H, would you go behind tab 7 of bundle H and at page 182 is an agreement. A. Which page, please? Q. Page 182 behind tab 7.
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aircraft as I had recently entered into an agreement." A. That is what I corrected, my Lord. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is June 2002. A. This the new plane that was bought after the Airbus was sold to the Libyans. At that time, there was no agreement to buy. That is why I made the correction. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is why Mr Freedman asked you whether or not you made this correction, because his team were seeking an order for production of this document and this document was produced on Friday, wasn't it? Or had you seen it before? MR FREEDMAN: No, it was -- correct, it was produced on Friday. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Pursuant to the order that I made last week, it was produced on Friday. MR FREEDMAN: Yes. A. From my own point of view, this is the agreement of the 747 that I bought after the disposable, after we disposed of the Airbus, but the plane that went to Libya is 767, 767. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think it even pre-dates the sale agreement, doesn't it, of the Airbus? The Airbus was July. MR FREEDMAN: Can I come on to that, my Lord? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: My enthusiasm, I apologise.
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Merrill Corporation (+44) 207 404 1400
www.merrillcorp.com/mls
8th Floor 165 Fleet Street London EC4A 2DY
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 2.1: "Location and time of delivery: "Used aircraft will be delivered to the buyer in Marana, Arizona to be delivered on or about 16 September 2002."
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MR FREEDMAN: So if you look now at paragraph 12 of your witness statement again at page 44, what you have done is, since the point in time when this document was produced, the document that we have just looked at in bundle H at tab 7, you have corrected in or around summer 2001 you decided you would sell the aircraft because you had recently entered into an agreement to acquire a new large aircraft, and you corrected it to say that you had entered into a discussion or an arrangement to acquire a new large aircraft. A. Correct. Q. This document that we have looked at is correctly dated June 2002, isn't it? A. Correct. Q. But in any event, June 2002, predates, is before, August 2002, which is when you told Mrs Sharab that you would like her to proceed with interesting Colonel Gaddafi in relation to one of your two aircraft; correct? A. Yes. Q. If we just consider the chronology after that, what we have is we have an instruction to proceed in August 2002; we have your visit to Libya in April 2003 when you leave the Airbus there, is that correct?
A. Yes. MR FREEDMAN: Would you, in bundle D2, go to tab 69 and at pages 255 to 256 is the Arabic of a letter that you sent to Colonel Gaddafi, and in the English it is at pages 253 to 254, and it is 2 May 2004. Correct? A. Please, say that again. Q. So 253 to 254 is the English translation of a letter that you sent to Colonel Gaddafi dated 2 May 2004. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. If you would go to what this letter is about, it is complaining about the A34 aeroplane and the failure to pay all the sum for it, and we can see in the bottom of the page a bullet point and the last five lines of that page will read as follows: "We had to buy a B747 aeroplane instead of the A340 plane delivered to Libya more than a year ago. I would not have bought the new plane if you had not have an agreement with me personally, and if your representatives had not have signed the aeroplane
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purchase contract, as I paid huge amounts for the new plane." So what you were saying there in that letter was that, once you sold the A34 aeroplane, after that you bought the Boeing 747, and that you would not have bought that, you would not have paid huge amounts for it if you had held on to the Airbus 340, that is what you were saying, isn't it? A. Mm-hmm. Q. That was showing to Colonel Gaddafi that the contract for the purchase of the Boeing 747 came after the contract for the sale of the Airbus 340? A. Yes. Q. Is that correct? A. Correct. Q. It was a lie, wasn't it, on your part? A. That was not a lie. Remember, this letter was sent 2004. So I had to exert maximum pressure on him to expedite the process of paying the balance of $70 million. Q. But it was a lie. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Let's break it down. It was not accurate, was it? We have seen the documents and you got it the wrong way round. A. Correct, but ...
1 2 in July 2003? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Correct. That is a year after your agreement to 5 purchase the Boeing 747 that we saw in bundle H at 6 tab 7? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. Correct. So I want then to go to the document of 9 2 May 2004 which you wrote to the Libyans. Would you go 10 please -11 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Before you do that, I have 12 scan-read the sale agreement, what is its completion 13 date? Will be delivered -- it is clause 2.1, on 185. 14 MR FREEDMAN: Yes. 15 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 16 September 2002 or any other time 16 that the parties shall agree. When did you take 17 delivery of this Boeing? 18 A. I don't recall, it is in the agreement maybe. I don't 19 recall. You can look at the agreement. 20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: September 2002 it looks like, that 21 is what the agreement says. 22 A. Which paragraph is this, your Lordship? 23 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 2.1 on page 185. 24 A. 185. 2.5? 25
A. Correct. Q. And we have your agreement to sell the Airbus
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MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is either a mistake on your part, which is accidental, or it is a deliberate misleading by you; which is it? A. What do you mean a mistake? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Either you have got the dates the wrong way round, in which case you were mistaken when you told the President that the sale of the Airbus came first, or you wrote that knowing it was untrue. It can only be one of those two, because we know that the letter is factually incorrect, don't we? Which is it? It can only be one of those two. A. I think it could be a mistake. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You think it could be a mistake. A. It could be a mistake. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is quite a serious mistake to make. A. Yes, I understand, but at that time we were trying to pressure Gaddafi with all of our efforts because he reneged on the $50 million and we had to put maximum pressure on him. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: This is the second time in the evidence, maybe even the third time, but certainly the second time, where you say things to people on the other side to put pressure on them which are untrue. You did the same in response to Mr Alaeddin's claim for
Q. You were not -- you remembered in May 2004 how many aeroplanes you had a few months earlier when you sold the Airbus? A. Yes, I had two planes at that time. Q. You knew that at that point in time when you sold the Airbus, you say you had two aeroplanes. What aeroplanes were they? A. I had the Airbus and the 767. Q. And you had the 747? A. Yes, which I bought later on, in June. Q. No, let's go back. June 2002, you bought the Boeing 747. At that point in time you had also the Boeing 767 and you had the Airbus 340? A. Correct. Q. In July of 2003 -- not July 2002; July 2003 -- you still had the Airbus, it was still yours and you had the Boeing 767 and you had the Boeing 747, and you entered into an agreement in July 2003 to sell the Airbus to Libya, didn't you? A. Mm-hmm. Q. So you knew a few months later that as at the point when you sold the Airbus, you had had three aeroplanes, didn't you? A. At that time, yes. Q. So the suggestion that it was a mistake in May 2004 that
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 remuneration, didn't you? You told him that there was in agreement and you said yesterday that was to twist his arm. This is the same. A. Yes, but then he was repaid completely, your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is probably because your threat didn't work, but you have insisted to me on a number of occasions that you're a man who always tells the truth. A. Correct. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: This letter is untruthful. It may be untruthful accidentally, or it may be untruthful deliberately, but you are forced to acknowledge that it is untrue; isn't it? A. Yes. MR FREEDMAN: I'm going to suggest to you that it was deliberately untrue and the reason why I make that suggestion, the reasons are as follows: first of all, you couldn't have been mistaken in 2004 as to how many aeroplanes you had the year before in July 2003, when you sold the A340, could you? A. Can you elaborate, please? Q. You could not have been mistaken in May 2004 about how many aeroplanes you owned in July 2003 when you sold the Airbus? A. What is the question?
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you were mistaken and thought you only had two aeroplanes is wrong. It was clearly a lie, wasn't it? A. Yes, but that is the way you interpret it. Q. And it was a lie -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is that letter dated May or February 2002? MR FREEDMAN: It is May. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Definitely May. A. Which letter, your Lordship? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The one we are looking at, 253. A. To Gaddafi? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes, 2004, the one addressed "Brigadier", you promoted him. MR FREEDMAN: Was it February or May? A. I think it was 2/5, I think, May, 2 May 2004. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: US calendar, month first and day second. MR FREEDMAN: So when you wrote that letter, it is not a matter of interpretation. Either it was a mistake or it was a lie and I'm suggesting to you that you knew perfectly well that at the time when you sold the Airbus you had three aircraft already, including the Airbus. A. You say this is a lie; I say it is a mistake. Q. What is more, it is not just identifying the number of aircraft you have got, but you are developing the point,
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and you develop the point by saying that you wouldn't have bought the new plane if you did not have an agreement in respect of the sale of the Airbus. It is a very deliberate lie, isn't it? A. It is not, it is a mistake. Q. And you said that you paid huge amounts for the new plane. A. 47 is a big number. Q. So if it was a mistake, how did you come to make a mistake like that? A. Mistakes do happen, your Honour. Q. Let's now move on to your damages claim arising out of the failure on the part of the Libyans to pay the balance of $50 million in respect of the Airbus. Will you go with me in bundle D2 to tab 97? A. 97? Q. Yes. A. Yes. Q. Now, if you go to page 321 what we have got at 97 is a document at page 320 which is an email of 24 May of 2005. It is referring to various costs associated with the A340. If you go to page 321, there is there set out an Airbus A340 cost analysis in the period between 8 April 2003, which was roughly when you left the Airbus in Libya --
me a few messages. Message number 1 is that he said that he would like to keep -- he would like to pay only $70 million and get the plane back but we also got other messages from somewhere else, through Gaddafi, that he would like to cancel the whole contract and get the money back and release the plane. So really they were playing a lot of nasty games with to us renege on paying the $50 million. Q. The last item in this schedule, and it is at page 321, is: "Damages suffered on B747 project, whole price, centre, time, $8.7 million." So what you were saying there was that, because you had purchased the B747, you had suffered losses of $8.7 million, weren't you? A. That is what this paper says, yes. Q. Yes, and that is a perpetuation a continuation of the lie, namely, that the Boeing 747 was purchased after the Airbus? A. It is not a lie. You know, when the Libyans come and try to renege and change the contract with a lot of twisting-arm procedures, we had the right to reply in kind. Q. Does that mean that because they lied, you had a right to lie as well?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. -- and 8 January of 2005. Are you able to tell the court what this document is? What is this document? A. I don't recall it. Q. Can I suggest to you that the -A. I think this is the one that was sent to Gaddafi, I think. Q. Yes. Is it right to say that what this document is doing is it is trying build up a claim for damages consequent upon the A340 Airbus not being -- the money not being paid in full for the Airbus? A. Yes. Q. Yes? A. This letter went from Saleh El Ghoul, yes. Q. Who is that? A. He is my chief controller at the time. Q. What is happening here that is the Libyans are being told that you have suffered losses almost as high as the money that you have received, the $70 million; yes? A. Yes. Q. And the context is that you are seeking to bring about a cancellation of the contract for the sale of the A340 on the basis that you keep either the whole of the $70 million or the majority of the $70 million? A. No, I have to explain here. At that time, Gaddafi sent Page 14
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A. We did not lie, we just had to build a case with them to tell them "Either you pay the full amount or we will just keep the plane and keep the money that you paid us". Q. But what you said to me was, you said: "Answer: It is not a lie. You know, when the Libyans come and try to renege, and change the contract with a lot of twisting-arm procedures, we have the right to reply in kind." "In kind" means to reply in the same sort of way, doesn't it? A. Well, unfortunately, with deals with such a government, it was not very straight, you had to -- I didn't write this letter, it was written by Saleh El Ghoul and I gave him the right to do -- by the way, Saleh El Ghoul went a few times to Libya. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: But this letter was sent with your knowledge presumably? A. I remember seeing this letter, but I told Saleh El Ghoul you have to go -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You saw it before it was sent, are you telling me? A. I'm not sure, frankly speaking, but I told Saleh El Ghoul -- and he went to Libya twice, by the way. He went twice to Libya on my orders, and I told
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him "You have to" -- with Fouad Alaeddin by the way. He went with Fouad Alaeddin to do whatever he can to finish the subject. MR FREEDMAN: You see, in answer to my question, you interrupted yourself. You started off saying: "Answer: Well unfortunately with deals with such a government, it was not very straight, you had to --" Then you corrected yourself -A. No no, no. Look -Q. -- and you changed the answer. Now, the answer that you were about to give was that, if you were dealing with a government that was behaving dishonestly, you, too, had to behave dishonestly. A. Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin were given orders to go to the Libyans and finalise this deal, no matter what they have to do, and clearly they took that path jointly, remember, also, Saleh El Ghoul was a Jordanian also and he was very close to Fouad Alaeddin also, Saleh El Ghoul. Q. The position was that you were carefully erecting with him a strategy of setting out as high a claim for consequential losses as you could put forward to the Libyans; isn't that correct? A. I guess that is what Saleh El Ghoul did, with Fouad Alaeddin.
respect of the 747 because of Colonel Gaddafi's failure to buy the Airbus and pay the 50 million, because you had already entered into the contract to buy the 747. You were already committed to that. So it follows from that logically that any delay in Colonel Gaddafi will have no impact on that, because you are already committed to buy and you are already committed to run it. A. Correct. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is the position, isn't it, that is the true position? A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That means that all of these calculations which include losses that are attributable to the 747, the largest of which Mr Freedman pointed out to you on page 321, is 8,700,000, that cannot be the result of Colonel Gaddafi's failure to complete, because you were already committed to buying the 747. Do you understand that? A. I understand. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That means that this is, to use a neutral phrase, wrong. Now, as I understand what you are telling me, it is that the Libyans were not playing straight and that entitled you equally to come back to them and say things, or have things said on your behalf,
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. It was at your instruction, wasn't it? A. It was not my instructions. My instructions to him was to go and finalise this matter as soon as possible with the Libyans, and at that time you had from the Libyans two scenarios: one, to buy the plane $70 million only and confiscate the $50 million; the other option was just to cancel everything and go back to square zero. So we have got two conflicting messages from the Libyans, one from Gaddafi and one from the head of the Afriqiyah Airlines that was supposed to buy the Airbus 340. Q. How is it, then, that the same point is made, both in your letter in May 2004 and in this schedule, that the reneging on the Airbus caused you loss in respect of the Boeing 747? A. I mean, as I told you, we had to put pressuring mechanisms on them as much as we can and Saleh El Ghoul was managing the process with Fouad Alaeddin and, at the end of the day, all this pressure that was exerted on them was proven to be successful and they had to pay the $50 million and the matter was settled completely with them. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is not an answer to Mr Freedman's question. What Mr Freedman is saying is that he cannot understand how you can claim losses in
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 which you knew were not true, but to create a pressure point countering the Libyans putting pressure on you. Is that the position? A. Our position was -- to Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin is to go to the Libyans, after their efforts failed, to do whatever it takes to finalise this deal and clearly I will confirm that what your Lordship said is correct that they maybe twisted some of the truth with them, to get this thing finalised with them because they reneged and they tried to keep the plane and don't pay the rest of the amount. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm not criticising what you did, I just want to know whether you did it knowingly and it appears to me that you must have known -A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: -- that some of the calculations in this letter were untrue, but you allowed it to be sent because that was the only way in which you could put pressure on Gaddafi to deal. A. Let me confirm to you that Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin were authorised to do whatever it takes to finish it, and I can confirm that some of these things I was aware of, that they said that they are going to use tactics with them, similar tactics they used with us.
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MR FREEDMAN: If we can go back to tab 69 to that letter of 2 May. A. Which page, please? Q. Tab 69 of D2. We looked before at page 253, if we look now at page 254, the second page of the letter -A. Yes. Q. -- it starts with two bullet points. Do you see that, page 254? A. 254, yes. Q. It starts with two bullet points and after that it says this: "Therefore, and according to the offer above mentioned, stating to count the received amount to date of US$70 million as a final compensation for what we had afforded, expenses and huge losses during the past year, we hope that Your Excellency will issue orders to the Libyan authorities to execute your desire. Thus items ... both contracts signed pertaining to the aeroplane and Touscha which is part thereof, the aeroplane cancelled, and the received amount considered a final satisfying settlement." So it was your strategy to try to obtain $70 million; in other words, to keep the money that had been received and keep the aeroplane? A. Our objective --
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Do you think would it have looked good in the world picture as a whole to find, as soon as Colonel Gaddafi comes out of sanctions, another major country is involved in a dispute with planes being seized and money out and all those kinds of disputes? It wouldn't have looked very good for the Arab world, would it? A. My objective, your Lordship, was only to get my $50 million. When he paid $50 million, everything was released and the plane was registered and I gave the plane to him. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand the tactics, because they were very successful. You had a large amount of the purchase price and you were in possession of the plane. You were in a very strong position, weren't you? And that was caused entirely by your taking of the plane when it was in Germany for servicing. A. Exactly, this is the key issue. When we took the possession of the plane when it was in maintenance in Germany, this was the turning point whereby the pressuring began working on Gaddafi. Because, for a certain period, he didn't believe that we would take the plane, but when I kept the plane in Libya, the plane was still under my name and registration, so I had a lot of leverage on him. So my objective was not to get
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Right? A. No, our objective was to put maximum pressure on Libya and Gaddafi to pay the $50 million. And as a result of these letters and the pressuring mechanisms that took place and as a result of Saleh El Ghoul's and Fouad Alaeddin's private trips to Libya, this resulted in them paying $50 million and settling eventually. Q. We will come to that, but as at the point of the 2 May letter, your strategy was to say "We are going to keep the $70 million because we suffered huge losses"; is that right? A. If that was my real strategy, I could have done it, because the plane was under my name and $70 million was in my possession and, at that time, in Libya, they were just coming out of the sanctions, so the leveraging power internationally was very weak. If I wanted to do that, I could have done it, but that was not my objective: the ultimate objective was them to pay $50 million. Q. The letters were consistent with that, because what the letters were doing was they were particularising the losses and showing they were almost $70 million? A. This was part of the macro pressuring mechanism against Gaddafi and if I wanted to keep the $70 million and the plane, I could have done it very easily.
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70 -- to keep the 70 and the plane; my objective was to have him pay the 50 and him get the plane. And that's exactly what happened in the end. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What you did at this stage was to keep the 70 and the plane and you say that was a threat to get the 50? A. Precisely, your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: At that time, yes. A. And I know these are tactics not used in the west, but with such a country as -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Don't necessarily think that. These kinds of tactics are often indulged in. All of these kinds of things. Possession is often described as nine-tenths of the law and, if you can put yourself in the best position, you can do. It depends how you do it, which is what we are exploring. MR FREEDMAN: Go to bundle D1 now. Put away D2 and go to D1 at tab 45, please. A. 45, yes. Q. Here is a letter of 18 May 2003 from you to Colonel Gaddafi. Now, this letter is written between the early April when you have left the Airbus in Libya, and July when the contract of sale is entered into. We know about this letter because this was a letter which was delivered personally by Mrs Sharab. In that letter
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it says the following after a courteous introduction: "With reference to the letter sent according to Mr Ramadan, the contents of which are that you are very surprised about the increase in the price of the aircraft to $135 million and that this price is unacceptable, I would like to inform you of the following: this aircraft was never offered for a price of less than $135 million or any other price at any time whatsoever. Also, it was not originally offered for sale. The aircraft's price of $135 million represents what the aircraft cost us. This includes the various extras and modifications that were made to the aircraft since we bought it. This amount is borrowed from the bank in Switzerland and bank is waiting for the payment to it, this being in accordance with the agreement concluded with Your Excellency. Based on your wish, we have left it with you." I want to explore the truth or otherwise of the suggestion that the price -- first of all, that that aircraft had never been offered for sale at a lesser price at any time whatsoever and that the aircraft's price of $135 million represents what the aircraft cost you. You have been asked to produce an agreement under which you acquired that aircraft and that agreement has
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Q. I'm going to ask you some other questions about this agreement, but let's just -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: This copy is not signed, is it? MR FREEDMAN: There is a signature on it. We can see that at page 56. A. It is. Q. It is signed by the seller. A. Not signed by me here, your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You have the other part. There are two copies. You take one, he takes the other. A. But we did sign it, this is the official one. MR FREEDMAN: Let's work on this basis that it was a contract for the purchase of the Airbus for $95 million; correct? A. Correct. Q. Questions have been asked of you, as to modifications, what modifications on the aircraft have taken place. Would you look, please, at bundle F1, please, that is the correspondence bundle. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can we put the purchase agreement away now? MR FREEDMAN: I think so, yes, but we will come back to it. F1/261?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 now been provided. Can you be shown bundle H, please? Bundle H. A. Bundle H, please. Q. Would you go in bundle H behind tab 2? This appears to be an agreement of March 2000. It appears to be an agreement between you, as buyer, and Inhoco SDN BHD of Brunei as the seller, and it appears, at page 44, that the seller, at clause 2.1, the bottom of the page, is going to sell and deliver to the buyer and the buyer is going to purchase at a purchase price, which is at page 45, the top of the page, 45: "The purchase price of $95 million shall be satisfied as follows: as to $15 million in cash payable to the seller on delivery and as to $80 million by the buyer's obligation to procure the transfer of the shares to the BIA or a wholly-owned subsidiary or other person approved by the buyer." My first question to you is this the agreement, a copy of the agreement under which you purchased the Airbus 340? A. Yes, this is the agreement that was signed between me and BIA, the investment arm of Brunei, Sultan of Brunei, yes. Q. It is really the Sultan of Brunei, isn't it? A. Yes, it is Sultan of Brunei, it is under his approval
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Which page, please? 261. Yes. This is a letter which was written by Hogan Lovells, your solicitors to the solicitors for Mrs Sharab on 15 March. In the last paragraph on that page "It is our view", it says the following -A. 261? Q. Page 261, do you see the paragraph beginning "It is our view" and the third line says: "However, it is common ground that the aircraft was [and it talks about the configuration] ... and the only relevant price is that at which the aircraft was in fact sold. Our expert witness requested only certain limited information about the aircraft and we passed on the following information, as per our understanding, about the configuration, about when it was originally delivered, that the defendant purchased the aircraft in March 2000 from an affiliate of the Brunei Investment Authority for the stated price of $95 million and the interior fit-out was done by the prior owner who contracted with Raytheon Systems. The defendant is unaware of how much this fit-out cost, but it is noted that the interior was very extravagant. We are not aware of how much our client spent on the aircraft while Page 28
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7 (Pages 25 to 28) Merrill Corporation (+44) 207 404 1400 www.merrillcorp.com/mls 8th Floor 165 Fleet Street London EC4A 2DY
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he owned it." So the interior fit-out had all been done before you purchased it; correct? A. Correct. Q. Put away that bundle and go to bundle F2 at page 552. A. 552? Q. Yes. A. Yes. Q. What we can see there is a response to some correspondence from Hogan Lovells to the solicitors for Mrs Sharab and, at page 553, the point numbered 5 -- so near the top of the page, the point numbered 5: "We confirm that no substantial modifications that go to value, consistent with the explanations in your letter of 28 March 2013, were made to the Airbus while it was owned by our client between March 2000 and August 2006." So that is correct, isn't it? A. That is correct. Q. We can see from there that there were no substantial sums spent on modifications to the aircraft whilst that was owned by you; correct? So if we then go back to the letter in bundle D1 that we were looking at in D1 at tab 45, it follows from that that when you said that "The aircraft price of Page 29
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Sure, sure. That is because you jealously guard your reputation? Yes. Is it the case that you regard it as something that is available to you, if you wish to do it, to lie about the original cost of an aircraft in order to get a better price from the buyer? A. We didn't lie, we just put justifications for the increase in price. Q. What is the justification of saying that it cost $135 million, if in fact it cost $95 million? A. I could have bought it for $10, I have the right to sell it for whatever price I need to sell it for. Q. What is the justification -- I will ask the question again -- of saying that it cost $135 million, if in fact it cost $95 million? A. I mean, what I buy it for is my discretion. The important thing is not this. The value of this plane was not 135, or 159, this plane costs Prince Jefri who was corrupt at that time, $250 million plus so at $135 million, that is a still a bargain for the Libyans. Q. You see, it might be said that it is corrupt to say to a buyer that you have paid $135 million for an aeroplane when you know that you only paid $95 million. How do you react to that suggestion that that is corrupt? Page 31
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$135 million represented what the aircraft cost us, including extras and modifications that were made to the aircraft since we bought it", that was untrue, wasn't it? A. We bought it at 95, your Lordship and the objective was to maximise our sale price. So when you said 135, you had to give some justifications. So, yes. And actually, not only that, we have done zero modifications on it, not only minor modifications, we have done no modifications whatsoever. Q. So it was not true when you said it cost $135 million, including modifications? A. When I sell the plane, I have the right to sell it at any price I want. Q. What you don't have the right to do is to lie about the original cost of the aeroplane -A. I didn't lie. Q. -- to the prospective purchaser. You don't have that right, do you? A. It is my business to put any price I want. It is my plane, I have the right to sell it for any price I want. Q. You are a man who jealously guards his reputation, so much so it is right, isn't it, that you have issued proceedings about your reputation against Forbes in this country?
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A. I react by saying the value of this plane is $250 million, that is what the -- that is what Brunei began with, by saying that is the value of the plane, and we were able to bargain them down to $95 million, because they were very eager to invest in Saudi Arabia and to invest in the Kingdom Centre that we have over there, which is a high-rise tower that was completed a few years ago, and the ownership of the Brunei became confirmed just a few months ago. Q. You are avoiding the question deliberately, aren't you? A. I'm not. Please, you ask and I will reply openly. Q. The question is: how do you justify saying that an aircraft cost you $135 million, when you know it cost you $95 million? A. Okay, you have to compare not 95 to 135, but 135 to 250, which is the real value of the plane. Q. That is not what your letter says, the letter doesn't talk about the real value, the letter is very specific, it says: "The aircraft's price of $135 million represents what the aircraft cost us." A. Because the counterparty would not really care much about how much I paid for it, they care much about what is the real value of this whole thing, how much it cost. Q. If that is the case, why did you bother saying how much
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I tell you something, and you rely on what I say as being the truth of the situation and it turns out that it is not truthful, you would be very upset about it, would you not?
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the aircraft had cost you? A. That is a tactic used with the Libyans. Q. Do you mean it is a lie used with the Libyans? A. It is not a lie. It is a tactic. It is not a lie. You can call it a lie; I call it a tactic. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Sorry, this aircraft was never offered for less than 135 million. You then say "The aircraft's price of $135 million, represents what the aircraft cost us". But it didn't, it cost you 95. A. Correct. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So when you say it cost 135, that is untrue. A. If you tell him 95, he is going to say "Why am I paying 95?". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Of course. A. He is going to say "I pay 95 only", because they wanted to pay the same price that I bought it for, while the value is $250 million, your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are quite right, but the value is something that you didn't state. You didn't tell him "You are going to get a bargain, if you pay me 135, because the aircraft is worth 250 million", what you actually do is you tell him a lie, you tell him the aircraft has cost you 135 when it didn't.
A. But not if I have done my due diligence. You can put any value you want on it. If I have done my homework and my due diligence and I take responsibility for that -- and they have done their homework also, the Libyans, and they said "That's good. That's a price we accept", at 120, eventually, obviously, not 135. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think, Your Highness, when you speak to your lawyers after this case, you might be disappointed and you might want to consider the way that you enter into contracts, if that is the way you go, because you cannot, as a seller, say things which are untrue to induce a contract and expect the contract to survive. A. This is not a normal -- you are dealing with the Libyans, who are really -- you know, it was -- it was not very straightforward and they were deliberately not honouring their commitments. I understand what you are saying, your Lordship. I understand this very well. But to the Libyans, when they come and they renege, and they come and say "We are going to go down from 120 to 70", and when they say "We will cancel everything", you
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know, they just reneged. And Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin were authorised just to go and to do whatever they can to finalise this deal and, eventually, we got the 50, and they got the plane. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Just because they behave badly, it doesn't justify you behaving badly, does it? You have your reputation that you want to maintain and you don't go their levels, you don't stoop to them. What you should do is you play honest. What you say to him is "Yes, we paid 95, but the plane was worth 250. Therefore, it is not unreasonable, whatever price I paid, to charge you 135. You are still getting a bargain, because that is $115 million below what it is worth", and then all the cards are on the table and you are playing honest broker. But what you tell him, untruthfully, is that the plane cost you 135, when it actually cost you 40 million less than that and it is untrue. A. But it is none of his business, your Lordship, to know how much I paid for it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Then why did you tell him? A. Because they wanted the justification for the value of the plane and, if you tell them the value, they don't understand the value, because they say it has been depreciated, it has been used by Prince Jefri and used
1 2 They are not sophisticated like UK-based people. 3 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If I sold this pen to you and 4 I said, although it looks an ordinary pen, it is 5 actually filled with platinum inside and is worth 6 a million dollars, but I will give it to you as 7 a special price of 750,000", and you pay the 750,000 on 8 the basis of my statement that it is filled with 9 platinum. If you then open it and you find it is full 10 of ink and only worth 50 cents, you would be very upset, 11 wouldn't you? 12 A. Not if I have done my homework and my due diligence. If 13 I have done my due diligence, I would not be upset. 14 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Sometimes, when you buy something, 15 you rely upon what people tell you they're selling. In 16 an area where people are honest with each other, you 17 take a man at his word. 18 A. But, your Lordship, the value of this plane was 19 250 million, and Prince Jefri paid for that 20 $250 million, and I know exactly the design of it. 21 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Prince Jefri could probably afford 22 to take that hit, because he wasn't spending his own 23 money. We know all of that. 24 But I come back to this fundamental question: if 25
mean. They only understand how much you paid for it.
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by the Sultan of Brunei, and they would say "No, 251 back to -- from the 251 to whatever you want to pay for it". MR FREEDMAN: You have heard the line of questions from his Lordship and you've heard my questions. A. I do. Q. Did you do anything wrong when you wrote "The aircraft's price of $135 represents what the aircraft cost us"? A. In normal circumstances, this would not happen, this does not happen. Q. Did you do anything wrong? Do you recognise that you didn't tell the truth? A. In normal circumstances, this shouldn't happen, for sure. Q. Do you recognise that you didn't tell the truth? A. You have to see the -- what led to that. Q. Do you recognise that you didn't tell the truth? A. We recognised that we were dealing with a rogue state and we had to act in kind. Q. Did you recognise that you weren't telling the truth? A. We were not understanding -- we were just strengthening our bargaining position with them right now at that time. Q. Does the truth then depend on context always? A. No, we are always truthful, but this is a very unique
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 situation and unique case whereby the Libyans were involved and they are not straight. So Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin were authorised to do whatever they could to finalise it. Q. And it wasn't truthful to say that extras and modifications had been made to the aircraft since you bought it, because, as you said, there were zero modifications? A. I told you, not my modifications. We have done zero modifications. Q. Zero modifications. A. I'm confirming that to you: not minor; zero modifications were done. The main reason for buying the plane was it needed no modifications whatsoever, so I'm confirming that. Q. The second sentence was a lie as well? A. You call it a lie; I call it a tactic used by Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad Alaeddin. Q. Would you go tab 50 of bundle D1, the same bundle, tab 50? A. Okay. Q. Here is another letter from you to Colonel Gaddafi, 22 August 2003. If you go halfway down the page, do you see the words: "This aeroplane is unique of its kind."
A. Just a minute. Yes. Q. "This aeroplane is unique of its kind and cannot be compared with other aeroplanes. It cost its original owner more than $250 million. If I had not wished you to have it and if I had not thought that it suited your needs, I would never have sold it, especially at less than half of its original cost." But you knew, when you wrote that, didn't you, that you had acquired it for much less than half of its original cost? A. Yes, but I'm saying that the value of this plane is $250 million. Q. Let's examine what it really did cost you, let's go back to bundle H, please. A. H, yes. Q. Let's go back to that agreement of March 2000 between you and Brunei. It is behind tab 2. Would you go to page 45? A. Yes. Q. At 3.1(b), or 3.1(a), $15 million has been paid in cash and $80 million is being paid by transfer of shares. The shares are referred to in the definitions, which, if you go back to page 43, just over halfway down the page, it means: "Shares in the Real Estate Construction and Page 39
Development Limited sufficient to give the holder a 13.5 economic interest in the Trade Centre Company." A. Yes. Q. Then if we go in the document we see that there are various representations that are made. There is the seller's representations at clause 4 and over the page, at page 46, there are the buyer's representations. Do you see that? A. Yes, yes. Q. 4.2, the buyer's representations and warranties are important, because here the buyer is the seller, or is in effect procuring the sale of shares in a company under your control; correct? A. Correct. Q. It is frequently the case, as you know, when there are purchasers of shares in companies other than publicly quoted companies, that there are very extensive representations and warranties that are made. You are familiar with that, are you? A. Sure, sure. Q. Yes? A. Yes. Q. This company was not a publicly quoted company, was it? A. It was not. Q. And yet here the representations and warranties are
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minimal, aren't they? A. I think if I recall well, there is a signed agreement, your Lordship, between me and them guaranteeing the $80 million value at the time of transfer, if I recall well, I remember that. Q. What there was, was that in default -- I think you are referring to a document at tab 3? A. Yes, that is the one I think, yes. Q. The sale was $95 million? A. That is the one, yes. Q. Then there would be the transfer of the shares, but if the transfer of the shares didn't materialise, then you would pay $80 million? A. Correct, this is correct. Q. But the sale of the shares did materialise, didn't it? A. Actually it was transferred just now, I mean last year, actually, imminently, just now. Q. What was transferred just now? A. The shares, they became owners formally in the company. Q. They became formally owners last year? A. Yes, they were owners then, but they wanted to -- they kept the shares under our name, they did not really ask it to be changed under their name. Only recently they change and they sold it. Q. How would the purchaser know that the value of the
accept it", but they asked that -- with this condition that you said on page number 3, that if the arrangement to transfer the shares does not materialise, then I pay $80 million. Q. But that depended on you, because if you transferred the shares, then that clause didn't kick in, did it? A. No, but it is their discussion. Actually, they kept the shares under my name, they did not change them until last year. Q. We asked for audited accounts in relation to the company in the years 2000 and 2001. Those have not been produced to us. What would those audited accounts show in relation to the company as at 2000? A. Frankly speaking, at that time, I don't recall at all what -- I don't remember what are the income statement balance sheets at that time, but the Sultan of Brunei and the BIA had access to the books and they accepted the 95 very willingly. Q. In 2000, March 2000, this was just a construction project, wasn't it? A. Oh, yes, but it had some accounts and the projects began. Q. But it was just a construction project, because when was it that the building went up? A. But you see, all the money was in the --
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 shares was $80 million? A. Can you ... Q. How would the purchaser of the shares know, how would Brunei know that they were acquiring $80 million worth of shares? A. Very straight, because they have done their homework and due diligence. They have done it. And they came and said "We accept that". They wanted to invest in Saudi Arabia. Q. There is no evidence here about any due diligence, is there? A. Maybe you have to approach them. They have done due diligence. Q. What we have asked for is documents that were produced in relation to the value of the shares, and that has been refused to us. What documents were provided to them so as to satisfy them that they were acquiring $80 million worth of shares? A. At that time when we offered them, we agreed on $95 million, I accepted the 95 on condition that we pay a certain amount, $50 million, then the rest in shares of the company. So I think they have done, they came and spent some time I think in the centre, I don't know what they have done, but at the end they said "Yes, we
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. When did the building go up? A. I don't know when it began. 2001, it began and maybe 2000 -- it was completed a decade, a -- more than a decade ago, so I would say it was completed 2002, so it began some years before that. Q. So it was a building project at that point? A. Sure, it was almost completed, and -Q. There is no evidence that this cost you $80 million, is there, to hand over those shares? A. It is not for me to decide that. They decided how much. They accepted the price I gave them, and I gave them guarantees that, if they don't get the $80 million, I pay for them. They have done their homework. I can't do their homework. Q. The limited information that we have been given, if you go tab 8 of this bundle, bundle H, tab 8, towards the end of that bundle -- you are near the beginning of the bundle. If you go to tab 8. A. Just a minute, please. I have to -- this agreement was 2000 and I think the project was completed in 2002, so it was almost completed. This project was five years. So just a year or two years before completion, they invested in me, invested in the project, and at the time remember that we had pre-sales agreement, we had pre-rents, and so we had some financial statements began
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even before the completion of the project. Q. What would those financial statements have shown that would show to a purchaser that it was worth $80 million, that? A. I don't have them right now, obviously, but the BIA came to Saudi Arabia and evaluated the project, and they spent, I think, some time in Saudi Arabia and then said "Okay, we accept that price" and they put one condition only, that if the $80 million doesn't materialise, I pay it for them. Q. Can you help us with tab 8 of that bundle, please, page 202? A. 202? Q. Yes, it is a document of 26 June 2004, Real Estate Construction, shareholders' resolution to amend the company's memorandum of association introducing the shareholder and increasing company capital? A. Yes, yes. Q. We can see there is reference to the previous incorporation of the company, and we can see that Brunei Investment wishes to join the company as a new partner by purchasing shares in the company. Current shareholders have agreed to that and they wish to amend the value per share in the company's capital. The shareholders also wish to increase the company's
later could be worth $5, $6, $7, $8, $10. So this is paid-up capital. Q. I understand that, but at that point the paid-up capital was increasing, wasn't it? A. Yes, increasing, but still it is paid-up capital, the initial one. Q. What documents would we have to look at -- because this is the only document that we have been provided with. What is the real document that is going to show what, in March 2000, that shareholding was worth? A. I think it would be very prudent to approach BIA, Brunei Investment Authority, and tell them what documents you have there, and you paid $95 million based on what? They need to be asked, not me. Q. There is no need for us to do that, because we are approaching the other party, the party that would have provided the information. I'm asking you that question: what document would show it was worth $80 million? A. They came -- Brunei Authority, they have, actually, you know, UK-based people who really do their homework, so they came, I think, to us in Saudi Arabia and they have done their homework and they accept -- actually, they gave the offer of $95 million. It is not that we told them it is 95, but then, when they gave us 95, we negotiated with them with the $15 million payment in
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 capital, and then, over the page, we can see what the company's capital is about to become. We can see that Kingdom Holding Company is 4 million shares, a 400-million-share value in Riyals and Brunei Investment Agency, 663,000 shares, and the share value in Riyals is 66 million, which corresponds roughly, at 27 cents to the Riyal, to about $17 million, correct? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 70 or 17? MR FREEDMAN: 17 million, at 27 cents to the Riyal. That is right, isn't it? A. I can't get, that. Can you explain what you mean? MR FREEDMAN: The Riyal would correspond, at that time, to about 27 cents to the dollar? A. The ratio of 3.75, yes. Q. So if we divide 66 million by 3.75, we get to about 17 million; is that right? A. More or less, I can't compare with you on this. Around that. Q. I want some assistance from you as to why that is not of assistance in relation to valuing what their shareholding was worth. A. It is very easy. This is the paid-up capital. It is like, you know, you have a company that may go for example $1 at the IPO, but then six months or one year 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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cash and $80 million in kind in the centre, and by the way, when they exited, they made a lot of money, they are happy. Q. It is right, isn't it, that this is all part and parcel of broader business being done between Brunei and Saudi Arabia? A. You know, at that time, Sultan of Brunei wanted to have an investment in Saudi Arabia, and he had some investments in Mecca, our holy place, and he wanted to really -- I used to, he used to invite me annually to go to Brunei for a national day and he asked me "What can I do with you to invest in Saudi Arabia?". So I proposed to him certain projects -- that was not the only project I proposed to him. I proposed to him several things, but he chose that. Q. I want to get back to valuations about the aircraft, one of the types of documents that you have been ordered to produce is any valuations of the aircraft that you may have. The answer that has been given in this regard can be seen in bundle F2 at page 548. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Put H1 away now? A. Excuse me, would you -MR FREEDMAN: Yes, H can go, and if you can go to F2, please.
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A. Which page? Q. Would you go to page 548, please? This is just completing about the shares, not about the aircraft. My introduction was wrong. I'm talking about the valuation of the shares. This is a letter from or an email from Mr Meakin of TLT to your solicitors? A. Who is TLT? Q. They are the solicitors for Mrs Sharab. At page 548 at point numbered 5 towards the bottom of the page a question is asked of: "Can we have any documents dealing with the valuation of the shares transferred and any correspondence with the seller in this respect? If it is your client's case that no valuation was ever requested or provided for the shares that were transferred, whether by Arthur Andersen or another external buyer, please confirm this in writing." The answer that has been given is that that is beyond the scope of the order that the court has made, but are there such documents? A. Frankly speaking, I don't think there are any documents, because the Libyans came -- the Brunei people came to Saudi Arabia, they have looked at certain investments that we have, and they chose to invest in the Kingdom Centre, which was on the verge of opening, and
A. There is no valuation. Q. There are no valuations? A. I don't recall there is any valuation at all, frankly speaking. Q. What steps have you taken to find out if there were vallations? A. I didn't need to. I have seen the plane and I know the value of the plane, and I know how much the A340 costs on the market. I know the furniture is of very high calibre, and I know the designer who designed it and who worked on it. So it is very easy for me to say from $50 million to the price I bought it for is acceptable. Q. You are not an expert in the price of aircraft, are you? A. You don't have to be an expert, you can make your own judgment on that, judgment call. I have to make my judgment call. Q. What communications have you had with brokers about attempts to sell the aircraft? A. The 340 you mean? Q. Yes. A. You just mentioned that we did not really have any brokers or any sale arrangements. Q. Did you not try sell the aeroplane to somebody other than Colonel Gaddafi? A. Frankly, I don't recall, but really Gaddafi was the man
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then, after that, they have done their homework and they have done their due diligence independently and they gave a price, if I recall well. Once they gave me the price, we negotiated with them, with the 15/80, $15 million in cash and $80 million in shares. Q. You have been asked to provide valuations of the aircraft that you have had. What steps have you taken to find out if there are valuations of the aircraft that you have? A. Do you mean the 340? Q. Yes. A. Oh, that was very simple, because the designer of the 340, one of his employees is called Brett Lindsay, that guy worked on my other planes, my 767, I believe and he knew exactly, he was actually the designer on the 340 and he was the supervisor of the contract. Q. You have produced no valuations, have you? A. Of what? Q. Of the Airbus. We have asked for valuations, and you have produced no valuation that you have in relation to the Airbus, correct? A. Let me just -- what kind of valuation you want? You mean when I bought it? Q. We have asked whether you have any valuations from the time that you bought it?
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that really we were focusing on. Q. Is it really the case that you purchased the aircraft believing that you could make a good turn on the sale of that aircraft to Colonel Gaddafi? A. No, no, when I bought it, I never knew that I'm going to sell to it Gaddafi, I bought it because it was a good deal. Actually, you know, I had my 767 -- if you follow chronologically the order of the planes I have, I began with a very small plane, eight passengers, your Lordship, it was a very small Jetstar and, as I expanded, I went up to 727 and then 767 and you know, the Airbus, it came at a very bargain price for me, that is why I bought it. Q. What I suggest to you is that it really did come at a bargain price to you and that it really came at a price of nearer $40 million to $50 million than $95 million? A. For sure this is an incorrect statement, because when the Sultan of Brunei, the BIA, exited the centre right now, they made way beyond the $95 million. So unfortunately, this is a very incorrect statement, and you can verify this with BIA. Q. On any view, you made a profit at the time that you sold. Even if you did pay $95 million, you made a profit of more than 25 per cent, didn't you, when you
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sold to Colonel Gaddafi? A. You mean from the -Q. From 95 million to 120 million that is more than a 25 per cent increase, isn't it? A. That what is I do every day, make profits for my shareholders in the company for Kingdom Holdings and myself. Q. So you did very well? A. No, it was not very well. 20 per cent is a low return for me. Q. One of the reasons why you did very well is because, normally, you would agree with me that an aeroplane like that is a depreciating asset? A. Yes, but I have to say -Q. Do you agree with that? A. It depends. Which plane? Q. The Airbus is a depreciating asset? A. It is a depreciating asset, but the $95 million that I bought it for was very competitive, yes. Q. So it would have depreciated in the period between March of 2000 and the time of the sale, 3 and a bit years later, in July 2003? A. I don't look at it this way. I look at it from the value of 250 going down, rather than from 95 going down. So really, if you depreciate it from 250, at 120 it was
(A short break) (11.30 am) MR FREEDMAN: In April 2003, you went to Libya with both your Boeing 767 and your Airbus 340, didn't you? A. Which date is that? Q. April 2003? A. Yes. Q. You agree? A. Yes, yes. Q. You accept, don't you, that after you left the Airbus, you had a discussion in your Boeing with Mrs Sharab? A. And Fouad Alaeddin, yes. Q. In your witness statement, if you just pick up your witness statement, at bundle B1, at the end of page 46, so tab 3, page 46, the third line of paragraph 24, you say: "I recall that while this was happening the claimant and I were on board the Boeing and we discussed the sale of the Airbus and the sale price that I wished to achieve. That discussion centred on the price that I wanted for the Airbus and how it might be achieved." Would you go from that to bundle A1, please, bundle A? A. A? Q. Would you go in bundle A, please, to behind tab 4?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 still a bargain for Colonel Gaddafi. Q. So if Brunei were so clever and so careful in relation to their deal, why were they selling it to you at a bargain price? A. Good point. At that time -- I'm sure his Lordship understands this very well because he had some dealings with Prince Jefri. At that time, the Sultan of Brunei confiscated and took all the possessions of Jefri and actually Jefri had four planes, he had two 747s, the Airbus 340 and another plane which I don't really remember very well, and they just wanted to sell them very fast, and with me they found a buyer who was willing to do it very swiftly. He just wanted to dump everything, the Sultan of Brunei, because there was a lot of pressure inside Brunei on the Sultan of Brunei himself to dealing with any relationship with Jefri. Q. So doing things very fast is inconsistent with very detailed due diligence in relation to the acquisition of shares in a company, isn't it? A. I think this question has to be given to BIA not to me. They were a willing signatory to the agreements. MR FREEDMAN: I'm now going to turn to April 2003. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Shall we take a break then, until 11.30? (11.23 am)
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Probably just to make it easier for you to follow, what I'm going to do is I'm going ask you to go back in that bundle to tab 3, and if you go to page 26 -A. 26, yes. Q. -- you are there saying at paragraph 17 that: "Nothing was discussed between the defendant and the claimant on this occasion that altered the basis upon which the parties had agreed to proceed." And the occasion that is being referred to is the occasion when you were in Libya in April 2003? A. Excuse me, which page, page 26? Q. Page 26, paragraph 17. A. All right. Yes, please? Q. What is said there is in the second sentence: "Nothing discussed between the defendant and the claimant on this occasion altered the basis upon which the parties had agreed to proceed." If you go back to tab 2, so we see what the occasion is, at page 8, tab 2, page 8 in that bundle, go earlier to tab 2, page 8, paragraph 18 -A. Page 8? Q. Page 8. Are you there? A. Yes. Q. Paragraph 18 is talking about what happened in April 2003 and talking about the discussions in the Page 56
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Boeing? A. Yes, yes. Q. What you are saying is nothing that was discussed there altered the previous arrangements. If you then go back to tab 4 of that bundle to page 36, so go forward to behind tab 4. Are you behind tab 4? A. Yes. Q. Page 36. A. Okay, yes, I've got it. Q. You were asked the question under paragraph 17 "Nothing discussed ... [which] altered the basis from which the parties had agreed to proceed": "Please set out to the extent that the defendant is able to recall the discussion he says he had with the claimant on this occasion, stating, so far as he is able, the precise words used, if in English or, if and to the extent that the conversation was in another language, the English translation of these words. Insofar as the defendant cannot now recall the precise words which were spoken, please set out to the best of the defendant's recollection the gist of the same." The answer that is given is: "That is a request for evidence. The defendant's case is clearly and sufficiently stated."
price? Without the price, there is nothing else can be discussed. Q. But you had a discussion about the price. But you are not willing to say in that witness statement what the discussion was about the price. Why not? A. The objective was to know what is the price that Gaddafi was willing to pay. Q. What did you say about the price? A. We were trying to get the maximum amount that we can get from him. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It would be a short conversation then, wouldn't it? A. Sorry? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It would be a very short conversation, the conversation on that basis is "Get the best price". A. Obviously, your Lordship, we have to see -- we have to discuss -- I mean, we just came back from Gaddafi, the meeting was positive, he decided he wanted to buy one of the planes. The key question right now is the price, the contract, the time of delivery. All these matters were very crucial right now to decide on the next step. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What did you discuss about the price then? You don't tell me that, do you? Did you tell her to get 135, 120?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Now, the only information that you have provided about the conversation in the plane about what was actually said, was in your witness statement that the discussion centred on the price. Why is it that your witness statement is so brief, not saying what actually was the discussion that took place? A. Very clear, because at that time when Gaddafi chose the Airbus, the main subject at that time was to see what is the price, because if the price -- let's say, if he gave me a ridiculous price, I would just withdraw the whole thing. Q. You have been asked to set out in the pleading what was the nature of the discussion. You failed to do that. You then have a witness statement and it is your opportunity to set out the full nature of the discussion, and you just say there was a discussion about the price. Why are you being so evasive? A. I mean, at that time, when there is no deal yet, I mean you have to have a price to see if there is a deal. Once there is a deal, then you have to have a contract. Q. Why are you hiding the conversation? A. I'm not hiding. At that time we had one objective only, we had two objectives when we go to Libya: which plane, which was decided by Gaddafi; number 2, what is the
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A. I don't recall exactly. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: 95? A. No, no. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Did you think 95 was the bottom figure that you might go to? A. No, no, I think it was 120 or 135. I don't recall exactly, but I think these two figures we brought up, I think, 120 or 135. But I think the price was put there. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There is a big difference between 120 and 135. A. I think it was 120, I think. MR FREEDMAN: She recalls that the discussion lasted about an hour with you in the Boeing. A. It is possible, because we were awaiting the transfer of all the personal belongings from the Airbus to my plane so it could have taken an hour, yes. Q. She says that you told her the aircraft actually cost you $90 million. You could have said that, couldn't you? A. I don't recall that, but it is possible. But I don't recall that. Q. She says that what you were looking for was to be able to sell the aircraft between $100,000,000 and $110,000,000?
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A. I don't think so, because if I was at 95, why would I sell it at 110? I mean, I wanted to get the maximum price. I think 120 was the price. Q. It is a very good price to get between 100 million and 110 million, even if you have paid 90 million or 95 million. That is a very good price because it has depreciated for three years. A. It depends who is the seller. Not me. Q. Do you remember, whether she said to you -- whether you said to her that you wanted to get between $100 million and $110 million? A. No, I think 120, and she was happy with that, because, I mean, her job is to go and to convince Gaddafi to buy it at 120. Q. What you said to her was that, if she got between know $100 million and $110 million, you would pay to her the previously agreed commission of $2 million. A. If this is the case, why didn't she put this in her three letters she sent to me? It is false. Q. You also said to her that if she could persuade Libya to invest the $20 million in Touscha, the commission would remain $1 million? A. Incorrect. Q. All of that was by reference back to the conversation that she had had with Mr Alaeddin?
Gaddafi and he chose one of the planes. Clearly we went back to the plane and, at that time, you have to decide on the price. But see, at no time I gave a number. Daad did a good job, she did support and help. No one is denying that, for sure, and my discretion -- it was kept at my discretion. I would have given her something for sure, but for sure no amount was discussed. Q. If you have that recollection, I suggest to you that you would have put it in your witness statement. A. No amount was discussed with anyone on that. Q. If you had that recollection, why didn't you put it in your witness statement? A. Put what? Q. If you had the recollection of how much money was discussed, why didn't it go into the witness statement? A. I always wanted $120 million for this thing. Q. Do you have a recollection of what was discussed? A. At that time, sure. I mean, first of all, we were happy that Mr Gaddafi -- and happy that he accepted the Airbus, and we were actually joking and smiling on how he chose the Airbus because it is European-based and has four engines. Q. That wasn't my question. A. No, but I'm answering you. Q. It is not an answer. My question was: do you have
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Your Lordship, at that time we had one objective only. It was to finalise with the Libyans the signing of the contract at $120 million. Q. She wanted a written confirmation, but you insisted that your word was enough? A. She could have pulled out. Q. You agreed with her that if she got more than $110 million, she would be able to keep the excess for herself? A. Never, ever. That is not the way I conduct my business. Q. The benefit to you was this: that as far as you were concerned, she wasn't going to get more than $110 million, so you could make that promise to her? A. I was very consistent, your Lordship, from the beginning. Any payment has to be my discretion only and based on the amount of work she does. Q. We saw that you had no recollection about what happened in August 2001 on the boat. Why do you have any more recollection in relation to what happened in the Boeing in April 2003? A. I don't understand the question. Q. Why do you have any more recollection about what happened in the Boeing in April 2003 than you have about what happened in the boat in August of 2001? A. Because this was a landmark date when I went to meet 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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a recollection of how much was discussed? A. No, you asked me, do I have any recollection of what was discussed? Q. Do you have a recollection of how much the price that was discussed? A. I told you 120. Q. If you have that recollection, then why didn't you put it in your witness statement? A. It is a given that it is $120 million. Q. The reason why it is not your witness statement is because you are making this up. A. No way, because at that time when we went on the plane, we had one objective only, to sell the plane and to get a price. That is the only objective at the time, because, without a sale contract, without a contract amount, everything else would just be a technicality and not worthy of discussion. Q. You said to her you would be happy with $110 million which meant she could have anything above that? A. It is a completely incorrect statement, because she did send me three letters thereafter and she is saying "I would like to get my commission", but not at one time she mentioned $10 million. Q. Let's look at the basis of your denials in your witness statement. Can we look at your witness statement, at
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page 47, so tab 3, page 47? A. 47, yes yes. Q. If we go to paragraph 29 you say there -- first of all, let's go paragraph 28, you say: "I don't specifically recall how I learnt that the claimant and Mr Alaeddin had reached an agreement in principle with Colonel Gaddafi for the sale of the Airbus at a price of $120 million." Now, doesn't that indicate that your recollection is not much good if you cannot even remember when it was that you heard about the agreement in principle? A. No, but then you have to continue, it says: "However, it is clear that there would have been a telephone conversation with the claimant and Fouad Alaeddin during which ... confirmed $120 million." We have to continue. Q. We know about things, about recollection of what would have happened, what might have happened, what would have occurred. The point being made in the first sentence is that you have no recall of being told of an agreement of what it was that you were told that an agreement in principle had been reached at $120 million. That is the case, isn't it, you don't remember that? A. Just because I wanted 120, it doesn't mean that the other party will give me 120, I was waiting here --
such a place, I learnt about this", but what you then go on the talk about is you go on to talk about what would have occurred. That is not your recollection, that is your reconstruction of events. A. This matter of wording -Q. Do you follow the distinction? A. Yes, I follow that, but can I -Q. What I'm suggesting to you, I'm suggesting to you that your recollection is not much good if you don't even remember when it was and how it was that you learnt about the agreement in principle of $120 million. A. One thing for sure, when it comes to big numbers like this, my recollection has to be very good because I live on numbers every day. Q. The recollection is not very good about the first sentence of paragraph 28, is it? A. On the plane, the main objective was to get the $120 million signed. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He is not talking about the plane. He is talking about how you found out that the deal had been agreed. A. Can I read this, your Lordship? It says: "I don't specifically recall how I learned that the claimant and Mr Alaeddin had reached an agreement in principle with Gaddafi."
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 clearly my cap was 120, he would maybe offer 119, he would offer maybe 100 or 90, I don't know what he was going to offer. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Explain to His Highness the significance of the phrase "There would have been a telephone conversation". That subject is known to the lawyers but not necessarily known to him. MR FREEDMAN: That is very fair, my Lord. There are two ways of giving evidence. One is to say that "I recall that something happened", something did happen, and another way of giving evidence is to say that something would have happened. That means "I don't recall it, but because of all the ways in which things occurred, or because of my beliefs, I can say that this would have happened". Do you follow the difference? A. No. Q. The difference is, in the first case, you are talking about your actual recollection and, in the second case, you are talking about some reconstruction of events that you don't recall. I'm contrasting with you the first sentence, where you say: "I don't recall [something]." So you cannot say: "I recall that on such and such a date in such and
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I don't know what was the procedure. I don't know if they met him in the tent or at home, but then I say: "It is clear that there would have been a telephone conversation with the claimant." Because I remember they called me. This I remember very well. They called me. MR FREEDMAN: The first sentence is not about the nature of the agreement, it is how you learnt about the agreement and you don't specifically recall how you learnt about the agreement. A. But I -Q. Why don't you just look at it, and consider it carefully and consider whether you agree with me or disagree with me? You don't recall how you learnt about that agreement, do you? A. What is meant here is I don't know what was the procedure to reach that agreement. Q. It doesn't say that, does it? A. That is what I meant. Q. You are just making this up. A. I'm just clarifying my point of view. Q. And the reason why you are making it up is because you don't want to confront the fact that you have little recall about that part of the transaction. A. At that time I had one objective only: to reach the
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$120 million contract and have it signed. Nothing else. Q. Just as you have little recall about that, it may be that you also have little recall about what happened in the Boeing. A. If you are implying that in the plane I accepted and discussed with the commission, this is incorrect completely. Q. I suggest to you that what did occur was as I have put it already to you. A. I don't agree with that. Q. You say, if you now go to paragraph 29.4 of your witness statement, at page 47 -A. 47? Yes. Q. You say you are giving reasons why you wouldn't have agreed to the level of commission that is alleged by the claimant in the telephone conversation, and you set out various reasons for that. The fourth of those reasons is as follows, you say: "As the claimant knew, it would have been open to me to contact Colonel Gaddafi directly at any time to discuss matters, since by that time I had established a good relationship with him, particularly as I had by then visited him in Libya on a number of occasions and sought to invest in Libya at a time when it was not expedient for him to do so from either a domestic or
A. But I'm contradicting you, I'm saying she deserves something, the question is: what does she deserve? And I'm saying this has to be my discretion. And she sent me three consecutive letters without mentioning the $10 million. If that is the case, why didn't she put the $10 million in the letters? Q. You knew that your ability to sell your plane to Colonel Gaddafi depended upon the involvement of Mrs Sharab, didn't you? A. Mrs Sharab's involvement and Fouad's were important, but clearly, when this deal fell through, Fouad failed and Daad failed. Q. You knew, as at April 2003, which is what we are talking about, your ability to sell your aircraft depended upon Mrs Sharab effecting that introduction and the sale? A. No one denies that Mrs Daad did a good job and she was very influential with Gaddafi. That's not the issue. The issue is whether I gave her a commitment or not, and the answer is I didn't give her a commitment at all. Q. It was that knowledge and that conviction that led to you, having assessed the commercial reality, being willing to agree that she would take the commission over and above $110 million? A. Completely incorrect statement. Q. If we go to 29.1, you say this:
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 international perspective." What you are saying there is you had such a good relationship with Colonel Gaddafi that you actually didn't need the services of Mrs Sharab? A. I didn't say that. I always said Mrs Sharab did a good job, she did support us and help us. The question of the payment was kept to my discretion, I'm saying even to now, she done a good job, she supported us, but to the extent that the amount was to my discretion. Q. That is not what you are saying in 29.4. You are saying that because of your relationship with Colonel Gaddafi, because it was a good relationship, you didn't actually need her because it would have been open for you to deal directly. If so, why did you use her? A. This is one item in four items. You have to look -there are four other items here, I said firstly also that it was too early in the negotiations to give her -to see the level of her work. Q. That is not an answer to my question, I'm talking about the fourth of those items. A. Sure, I had access to Colonel Gaddafi. Q. Therefore, what you are saying is that you didn't need to pay her that level of commission, because you were able to do the deal with Gaddafi, with Colonel Gaddafi, without the involvement of the claimant?
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"First, at that early stage in negotiation, I wasn't in a position to determine an appropriate level of compensation for the claimant. So I simply could not have confirmed to Mr Alaeddin or to the claimant that I had agreed the a commission of $10 million for the claimant or indeed any commission." But in fact, you were able to make that assessment because you were able to make an assessment that it was very unlikely that you would get any more than $110 million? A. But how can I commit to a number when Gaddafi did not even accept my number yet? Gaddafi could have come and said 100, could say 95 or 80. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is why you agree commission, because the amount you pay is governed by the price you get, as opposed to Mr Alaeddin, for example, who is paid by the hour, whatever the result. A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: There is a big difference, if she doesn't achieve it, she gets nothing. A. But she knows, I told her "You will get something, but it is at my discretion". It is correct that I told her that clearly. I agree with you, your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I have been waiting for that because I'm trying to understand whether when you were
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sitting in the Boeing for an hour, you say in your evidence there was only a discussion about the price. Do I take that it that means that there was no discussion whatsoever on the Boeing about her commission? Is that what you are telling me? A. What I say is that it was very premature at the time to talk about any commission, because the Libyans are very unpredictable. Can you imagine, for example, a head of State saying "Keep the plane here, without a contract, and leave", and me saying "Yes"? So this is a very unique situation. So I said "Okay, keep the plane" and I left and he said "If you don't keep it, I will not buy it". So I had to decide whether to keep it, take the risk, or not, so I kept the plane. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is a larger scale of when a car dealer let's you have a car on a trial, isn't it? Come back to my question. My question is not as to how difficult the Libyans were, I'm quite prepared to take that. The question I want answering is whether you say there was no discussion on the Boeing about her commission? A. My emphasis -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No discussion at all? That is the question I want answering. A. She maybe wanted to allude to it, but I never let her
A. No, no, no, please don't put my words. She could have wanted to get into that, but I never gave her a chance at all, with Fouad Alaeddin's presence. Q. What you said was that you stopped her and what I want to know is, how did you stop her? What did she say before you stopped her? A. I said she may have wanted to talk about it, but I gave her no room for that. Q. How did you know she may have wanted to talk about it? A. When you talked about price, clearly her objective was to take commission. It was very clear that she wanted to take commission. But at that time, I was adamant I don't want to talk about commissions. And to prove my point, your Lordship, if she really had the $10 million in her mind, why in her three letters to me she never mentioned that amount? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will come on to the letters, but of course, what people write in letters doesn't necessarily reflect what they agree orally. What people write in letters doesn't necessarily reflect what they truly believe. We have seen that this morning. I'm more concerned about the discussion and, as I understand your answer, as Mr Freedman has pointed out, to my question, "Was there any discussion?", I read your answer as saying, she started to have a discussion
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 talk about it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are telling me, on oath, there was no discussion between you and her on the Boeing about her commission? A. No. She could have wanted to get into that, but I stopped her, I said "I will talk about nothing but price now, only the price", I was very adamant about that: MR FREEDMAN: You stopped her. How far did she get? A. I'm saying, if she talked about it, I did not give her any room to talk about it, because I told her "One emphasis right now: a contract and $120. If you get that, I will see what I can do". It is exactly like the Movenpick Hotel. Q. That wasn't your response -A. There was no contract. I gave her an amount I thought was right. Q. That wasn't your response, what you said was -- my Lord asked: "You are telling me, on oath, that there was no discussion between you and her on the Boeing about her commission?" A. There wasn't. Q. And you said "No, she could have wanted to get into that but I stopped her"?
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MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is that your evidence? A. No, what I'm saying, that she could -- if I gave her the chance, she would have loved it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't want "would have" or "could have", that is speculation. I want to know, from your own memory, what you actually recall, all the things you -- you were with her on the plane for an hour and all your evidence says is that there was a short discussion about the level of price you wanted. That is all you say in your evidence. Now, I want to know whether you say there was any discussion between her and you about her commission on the plane? A. My statement is very clear, it says: "I simply could not have confirmed to Alaeddin or the claimant that I have agreed to a commission of $10 million, indeed or any commission." MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is speculative reconstruction. I want to know from your memory. I don't mean paragraph 29.1. What does your memory tell me about what discussion there was? A. My memory says the following: that I gave her no room whatsoever to really get into that, although her body
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language and her mental status wanted to get into that. But I was adamant. I say "At this stage, please, we talk about $120 million. I need to get that", because I can't talk about commission or fees for her, because I need to get Gaddafi to say "Yes, 120". He never accepted that when I met him, he only said I will take the A340 and we will talk. So I said "Fine". It was breakthrough to be able to sell the plane. So at that time, I didn't discuss the commission or the consequences, because he may have rejected my offer completely, he may have come and said "$50 million", and then I have to withdraw the plane. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I can only go so far, Your Highness, in allowing you to not answer the question and, if you don't answer the question, I shall conclude that you are not answering the question because you are unwilling to tell me the truth. It is very important. This is the key meeting from the claimant's point of evidence when the present claim for commission was finalised. It is the most important meeting in her evidence after the agreement in the restaurant. And you tell me nothing in your witness statement about the discussions about commission. I want to know whether that was because there was no discussion or some discussion. What is the answer to
something", but I just evaded that completely, because I don't want to talk about commission at that time. The body language says, you know, "I was able to get to Gaddafi to meet him, he took the 340, that is a good achievement, you know, it was successful", all these are implications that she wants a commission. It is very clear. And I never said no. She had done a good job. The question -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: She had got you to the stage where, for the first time on the plane sale, you met the President, the late President, you got him so interested in a plane that he actually picked the plane and he was keeping it on trial. She had achieved a great amount for you by that time, hadn't she? A. By that time, yes, but -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Don't worry, Mr Freedman will come to when you say it all fell apart. That is later. A. Okay. MR FREEDMAN: So far you have told us about lots of things she said, but none of that is body language, is it? A. What is that? Q. I said so far you have told us lots of things that she said, but none of that is body language, is it? A. Objective at that time was to get $120 million, only. Q. You said her body language and her mental status wanted
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to get on to that? A. Sure, common sense. Q. You don't know what her mental status is; do you? A. That is my own analysis. I could be wrong. Q. Your body language reference is just plainly ridiculous, isn't it. A. Your own point of view, I respect. I don't accept. Q. All right. You were there, what was the body language? A. I told. Q. You told us things that she said, not body language? A. Yes, for example, "When you do this" -- for example, "I have done a good job. I'm with you, Prince" and all these things are implications of what was next for me. Q. You agree that talking about the price and talking about commission go hand in hand? A. Not in this particular deal. Q. That is what you were just saying about the -A. Not with Gaddafi. Q. The reason why you were intervening was because you recognised that talking about the price and talking about commission go hand in hand? A. I always had in my mind this thing has to be kept to my discretion. If this thing was really, I meant to give her something contractually, I would have had a contract with her.
1 A. No discussion, because I did not give any chance to 2 deviate from the $120 million. Clearly, I know very 3 well she would have loved to discuss that subject. But 4 my objective at the time, your Lordship, was to get the 5 commitment of $120 million with Gaddafi so she was not 6 given the chance. 7 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The transcript will recall what I'm 8 summarising to be your answer. You are telling me that 9 there was no discussion at all about her commission. Is 10 that what you are telling me on oath? 11 A. Yes. 12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No discussion at all? 13 A. No discussion. That is my recollection. But I know 14 that if I gave her the chance, she would have loved to 15 talk about it. 16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Once you say that, you open the 17 door to give an impression that there was an attempt to 18 have a discussion, but it was short-lived. 19 A. Your Lordship -20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What is the body language? Did she 21 lean forward and say "Give me the money"? 22 A. I will give you an example, she said "I was successful, 23 I was able to get to Gaddafi, we can keep the plane here 24 right now", and all these implications means "I deserve 25
that?
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Q. But there is nothing about it being in your discretion in this meeting of April 2003, is there? A. No, it was in my mind. I would never have accepted to have a contract with her on that. Q. Just as price and commission did go hand and hand, she did actually talk to you about her commission? A. Never. Q. She talked about your commission in the context of the discussion about the price? A. Never. Q. And the discussion about the price indicated where you wanted to get to, to end up, which was between 100 million and 110 million? A. I wanted 120, minimum. Q. It was -- I suggest to you that that is a lie? A. You like the use the word "lie". I don't like to use it. Q. I don't like to use the term "lie" but if you say that that is your honest evidence, I'm suggesting to you that is wrong? A. Fouad was there, but unfortunately he is not able to give a witness, but he was there. Q. You were then satisfied that so unlikely was it that she would get more than 110 million, that she could have the balance?
agreement she did regularly refer to a commission due to her, but this was always a generic reference and never to a specific figure." I suggest to you there were discussions well before the settlement agreement in respect of commission, isn't that true? A. Please, you have to explain, please, I don't get what you are referring to in 46 now. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is the sentence that starts on line 3. A. Can I read the sentence again, please? MR FREEDMAN: You read to it yourself, it is the second sentence in paragraph 46. A. Yes: "I recall that after the signing of the settlement agreement she did regularly refer to commission due to her, but this was always a generic reference and never a specific figure." This one? Q. Correct. A. That is correct. Q. I suggest that you have pitched that by reference to the settlement agreement which is early September 2005 and I'm suggesting to you that there were conversations well before the settlement agreement in which you and she
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. That is not the way I function at all. Q. There were subsequent occasions when there was a discussion between you and her in relation to commission, isn't that right? A. You are referring to where basically? Q. First of all, can you tell me, yes or no, were there subsequent discussions? A. Yes, sure, at every stage, she began -- she wrote me letters about her commission also. There are letters on record. Q. If we go to paragraph 46 -A. 46 of -Q. -- of your statement, at page 52. In the third line of paragraph 46, page 52, you say this: "I recall that after the signing of the settlement agreement she did regularly refer to a commission due her, but this was always a generic reference and never to a specific figure." Do you see that? A. Explain, please? Q. Do you see that? A. Where is that? Q. Page 52, paragraph 46, the third line. A. Yes, I see. Q. "I recall that after the signing of the settlement
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were discussing commission. Is that correct or is that false? A. Which one is that? But I also go on to say: "I was always careful not to commit to any particular figure and did not do so as I had not decided on the level of commission she deserves." MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Come back to the question, I'm afraid. He has not answered the question. What Mr Freedman is pointing out is that that sentence talks about discussions you had after the settlement agreement. Do you see that? A. Yes. I mean -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It does not deal with discussions like the one on the Boeing, for example, that occurred a long time before the settlement agreement. A. You are telling me -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Freedman is suggesting to you that it has been very carefully drafted to avoid dealing with conversations that took place before the settlement agreement. Is that right, Mr Freedman? MR FREEDMAN: That is correct. A. You are telling me, your Lordship, after I was paid the $50 million from the Libyans; is that correct? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: After the settlement agreement, yes.
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A. You mean the $50 million, you mean, after I was paid in full? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes. A. The question is, what is the status of that? But at that time, you remember, your Lordship, to me she jumped ship and I have a letter from her saying "I'm not going to be with you anymore, I'm going to be with the Libyans". MR FREEDMAN: No, you are confusing times. What you are talking about here, the settlement agreement, was in September of 2005. final settlement with the Libyans? Q. The settlement agreement with the Libyans where they agreed to pay the balance of the 50 million. That is September 2005. A. So when they accepted to pay the $50 million? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes. MR FREEDMAN: That is September 2005. A. Okay. Q. Your evidence is carefully saying that discussions about commission take place after that settlement agreement. What I'm suggesting to you is that there were discussions about commission due to her that took place before the settlement agreement. That is in the years
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That was not her fault, was it? A. For sure it was not her fault. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You have said this morning that all the problems were because the Libyans were very tricky and they were not being truthful. A. For sure. She was doing her best to finish the deal. I acknowledge that. I am not debating that at all, your Lordship. I am saying she'd done a good job and she really wanted to have this deal happen. No doubt about that. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Her major role was to get you to the door and in the door and obtain a deal, and she achieved all of that, didn't she? What happened afterwards is, for reasons we will probably never finally find out, the Libyans did not honour their agreement to pay the 50 million. Apparently, the President's cousin, who had the money, decided he wanted a piece of the action and might have asked for a bribe. That is not her fault. You decided the best way to achieve a result was to put pressure on the President by taking his plane off him and taking it back to Riyadh, and you are taking the plane because you are sitting there with the plane and the money, or a large part of the money. That puts you in a strong position and led to the deal. But that is nothing do with her. Her job
A. What do you mean the settlement agreement? You mean the 12
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 before the settlement agreement. Is that true or is that false? A. But here I specifically recall that after signing the settlement agreement she did regularly refer to the commission due to her. Q. We can keep on reading the same sentence, but perhaps you will now tackle the question as to whether there were commission discussions that took place before September 2005? A. So you are telling me even before the final settlement there was a discussion with her on the -Q. That is the question I have been asking several times, yes. A. It is possible, yes, but generically, yes, she began talking about commission, because we were on the verge of financing the deal. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What does "generic" mean? A. You know, she is saying "What is my commission?", for example. But at that time we were facing difficulties with the Libyans, so for sure I was not about to give her anything because I interfered by me personally going to Libya after taking the plane from Frankfurt, so clearly her role, as it progressed in this matter, has diminished substantially. When I took possession of the plane, things went sour with the Libyans completely.
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was to get you into the deal, and she did that. It wasn't her fault that it went bad afterwards, was it? A. I fully agree with that and, actually, the statement you mention now, your Lordship, I agree with completely. The question right now is what I need to decide to give her commission for that. All that you said, I accept word by word, nothing wrong with that, but the question is what she deserves, and this was kept to my discretion 100 per cent and she knows that. I fully agree with what your Lordship said. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Despite you accepting what I say and her achieving all of that, your case is that she is not entitled to one cent. A. Before she stabbed me in the back, she deserves something, but after stabbing me in the back and I have a letter saying "I'm switching sides", to me, she deserves nothing. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No doubt we will look at the letter where you say she stabbed you in the back in due course. MR FREEDMAN: In July 2003, that is about four days before the agreement of the sale in respect of the Airbus, so about 15 July there is evidence about a conversation that you had by satellite telephone with Mr Alaeddin and Mrs Sharab and they were at the Corinthia Bab Africa Hotel. There was discussion as to whether it was in the
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lobby or in the gardens. What happened in the course of that conversation was that Mr Alaeddin passed on to you the fact that Mrs Sharab would only go ahead with getting this sale for you if you confirmed that you would pay the commission of $10 million that fell due on the sale of $120 million. You did confirm that to Mr Alaeddin, did you? A. So you are telling me she blackmailed; is that what you are saying, basically? Q. I'm saying that that occurred and you confirmed that the commission would be paid? A. At that call, the $120 million price was confirmed. Q. What happened was you confirmed that to Mr Alaeddin, that $10 million would be paid to her and you also confirmed it to Daad Sharab? A. That is her position. My position is that I always said whatever amount she will get is based on my discretion. Very consistent and adamant about that under oath. Q. That wasn't the only occasion when you confirmed this payment. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Sorry, I'm about a line and a half behind you at the moment. When you say your position was always consistent that she was only entitled to something that was at your discretion, Mr Freedman has put to you that there was a particular conversation when
confirmation that she was going to get the 10 million. Her case is that she obtained such confirmation. You can either say -- I suppose you can say three things: one is that "I cannot remember what was said"; the second is "I can remember what was said" and she is saying it is untrue, "What she is saying is untrue no such conversation took place"; the third possibility is that you remember the conversation, but in that conversation you confirmed to her that she would have to go, in your normal way, discretionary payment by you. Those are the three possible answers as to what happened, and I want to know, if you can remember, what actually was discussed? A. I remember very well. I remember because they were calling me on satellite phone and they said "We are in this hotel", the Corinthia, I think, and the line was not very clear. This was a very important call, because she told me, and Fouad told me, that "$120 million is done". What I recall very well is that the issue of commission was beginning to be discussed, but I said "Fouad, please, I will not discuss commission, this is my discretion. When this deal is done, I will give her what I believe is right". So the commission was brought up at that time by her. MR FREEDMAN: What was at your discretion?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 she asked Mr Alaeddin to confirm that she would get the 10 million, otherwise she would not proceed. That was reported back to you, she says, and Mr Alaeddin went back to her. When you say you are consistent in saying "at my discretion", there are two possible answers: one is that you deny any such conversation took place, as she says; the other is that you accept a conversation took place but that the conversation is not as she says it was on the basis that I confirmed she would be paid at my discretion. Now, which of the two alternatives is it? A. At that call, your Lordship, when Gaddafi accepted the $120 million, clearly she played a role in that, no doubt, but it went beyond her hand, because at that time Fouad Alaeddin was already beginning the operation of the contract, regardless of what she was doing. So Fouad was utterly in her camp as far as the commission was concerned. So for her to say that the deal cannot go through, this cannot -- this was somehow a bluff, because when Gaddafi said yes and authorised Fouad to begin the contract for preparation, this thing became almost fait accompli. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I want to come back to the conversation. It was put to you that on the satellite call there was a discussion where she required
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A. I thought of giving her, you know, the amount I had in my mind. I mean the amount of money that I had in my mind. Is that the question? Q. It was your expression. I wanted to know what you meant. A. At that time to pay her something, pay her an amount. Q. What? A. You would like to know what amount I had in my mind? Q. You ended up paying her nothing, so I am interested -A. I paid her nothing because of the events that came thereafter. Q. So -A. That really erased all the good work she did. Q. The fact is that you made that confirmation both to Mr Alaeddin and to Daad Sharab that you would pay $10 million? A. That is incorrect completely and Fouad was present, but unfortunately he cannot be present today. Q. When it came about that you received the first $70 million, you recall, don't you, that she asked you for 50 per cent of her commission? A. But -- but I told her, $70 million, you know. And at that time clearly the problem began getting bigger and bigger and deeper and deeper. They had the plane and I had $70 million only, so they were in a strong
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Q. Do you recall that she asked you for 50 per cent of her commission? A. She asked for her commission, I don't recall 50. Q. She asked you for 50 per cent? A. She asked for commission. I have to say the truth, I don't know if it was 50 or not. Q. You refused on the basis that the commission will be paid only on final payment? A. She began raising the issue of commission and I told her, unless I have the $120 million, I will not exercise my discretion of what to give you. Q. That is not what happened, you said simply that the commission wouldn't be paid until you received the final payment? A. Well, that is what I said, I said "When I get my 120, I will give what you I think is right". Q. I suggest to you that that is invented for the purpose of this case? A. That is what you say. Q. She asked for it to be paid to a bank account in London, didn't she? A. Yes, but you know, I mean she knows very well and I know that it is not for me -- that proves that this statement is incorrect because, if she is going to give me a bank
this case to be heard in England." Are those your words or your lawyers' words? A. Clearly her objective is to establish jurisdiction in London, because this whole thing, even the meeting in the restaurant in London is all fabricated. Q. Is this in your words or your lawyer's words? A. Can I read it, please? (Pause) I mean, that is very straightforward what it says here, she never sent a bank account or gave it to me, that is a correct statement here. Q. If we then move on to what happened at the Georges V on 30 August of 2005 now. A. Which page? Q. If you go to the witness statement of Mrs Sharab at page 26. So tab 1, page 26? A. Page 1. Q. Tab 1, page 26? A. That is Mrs Daad's statement. Q. Yes. A. Yes. Q. I want to show you a part of that statement. She is referring to what happened at the meeting at the Georges V? A. Yes. Q. She says at paragraph 98 that the meeting lasted for
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 account, that is not something I do, I take. I never know how to transfer and take these clerical matters. Q. If you go to your witness statement at page 48 at paragraph 31, please. Paragraph 31, page 48 in the last few lines of that paragraph 31 you deal with this -A. Which lines, please? Q. Page 48, paragraph 31 and the last few lines I'm about to read out something to you, where you deal with this statement of Mrs Sharab that she wanted it paid to a London bank account, and you say the following four lines from the bottom: "In fact the claimant has never sent, and neither I nor my office have ever received, any details for a bank account in London or elsewhere. I believe that this is a fabrication specifically designed to enhance the claimant's case to found jurisdiction for this case to be heard in England." Are you saying those are your words? A. I don't understand the question. Q. This is supposed to be your evidence isn't it, this witness statement? A. Yes. Q. Are you saying that that last sentence: "This is a fabrication specifically designed to enhance the claimant's case to found jurisdiction for Page 94
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about an hour, and during the meeting you said you were fed up and asked for assistance: "... and he stated that he wanted the matter closed as quickly as possible and I could then have my commission." Then it goes on to what she says about it. A. What she says thereafter. Q. We will come back to that in a moment. At the moment I'm interested in the statement that you said she could have her commission. If you go to your evidence in response, we can find that behind tab 3 at page 51. A. Yes. Which page, please. Q. Page 51? A. Yes. Q. At paragraph 43 you say: "I met with Mrs Sharab at the Georges V in Paris where I often conduct business meetings on 30 August 2005. We subsequently travelled to Libya to meet with Colonel Gaddafi." So you say nothing about the fact that you said to her that she could then have her commission. Do I take it from that that you agree that what you said at the Georges V was that she could then have her commission once the matter was closed? A. No. I mean, she said -- she mentioned commission,
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I didn't mention commission in my statement. At that time, I'm telling you, we had the price there, so the last thing we are likely to discuss is commission, frankly speaking. Q. You don't contradict it in your statement. That's the point I am making. You see it in her statement and you are responding to her statement and you don't contradict the fact that you said to her that she could then have her commission once the matter was closed. That is the point I'm making. A. I saw what she said here, but to me really at time the most important thing was to get this back on track, to get the $50 million paid. Q. Yours was very carefully prepared statement contradicting all matters of importance. Why didn't you contradict her statement that you had said that she could have her commission when the deal closed? A. I think you have to ask my lawyers. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We cannot, I'm afraid. MR FREEDMAN: It is your statement, not the lawyers' statement. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We would like to but we cannot. A. Frankly speaking, I recall looking at this, but I don't know why this was not put there. But at that time, your Lordship, the main objective was to go to Libya to
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is not a recounting of what was discussed. Where do you tell me -- as far as I can see, all you say about the Georges V meeting is: "I met with Mrs Sharab in Paris at the George V Hotel where I often conduct business. We subsequently travelled to Libya." Where do you tell me anything about that conversation in your evidence? A. At the time it is very clear that we had a problem with Libya. Our main objective is to get this thing back on track. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Remember your witness statement is your evidence in this case in response to what she says. If you look at paragraph 98 of her witness statement, back at page 26, you see there she talks about closing the deal and then she says that you said that she could then have her commission. She says she told you it was all your fault it was going wrong. She says that she recommended that you should go Libya and apologise to the President. She says you agreed to do so and gave her a free hand to negotiate a settlement. She says all of that was discussed at the meeting at the Georges V? A. Yes.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 get Gaddafi to give the $50 million. Really at that time this could have gone in any direction. MR FREEDMAN: I suggest to you that the reason why it wasn't contradicted is because it is true? A. You know, I always said I will pay her commission. I never said that. The question is how much the amount. I never said that. I completely agreed with his Lordship's statement a minute ago. Q. But you weren't saying "If at the close of the deal I exercise my discretion in your favour I will pay you a commission"; you said "When the deal is closed I will pay you the commission"? A. At that time we had crisis. The last thing we are talking about is commission. If there is no deal there is no competition. And there is no discretion for me to
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MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And you do not contradict any of that evidence in your witness statement, do you? A. No, I do -- can I read from this, your Lordship, I say: "I have explained about ... I had and continued to have a good relationship ... contrary to what the claimant has alleged in her witness statement I did not apologise to Gaddafi for not returning the Airbus to Tripoli after scheduled maintenance." MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will come on to the meeting and what might have been said between you and the President in the tent. I'm more concerned at this stage about the evidence of what happened at the Georges V. She has set out a lot of detail about what was discussed and you say nothing, nothing at all, do you? A. I say one thing: I want my $50 million. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Where is that in your witness statement? A. Maybe it is not here, but that -- that -- I don't know. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You don't even say that, do you? A. Fine. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is not fine. It doesn't help me and it doesn't help you if I don't understand what your case is. I'm trying to understand what the discussions were at the Georges V and in your witness statement
16 give her anything. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: In your witness statement, go back 17 18 again to paragraph 43 on page 51, you tell me absolutely
nothing about the conversation that took pace at the Georges V, do you? A. No. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Any detail about what was said at all? A. I do say it was a considerable inconvenience for me to interrupt my schedule and plan to go to Libya.
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which is now, what, three years old, which you had an opportunity to read, to correct, if you wanted, to supplement, if you wanted, before you went into the witness-box, despite all of that, you are now telling me for the first time and telling Mr Freedman for first time, I understand your answer to be that you said to her "I want my 50 million", is that what you are telling me? A. I say here: "Our objective was to go to Libya and get the contract back on track." That is the only thing that I had in mind. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand the objective, but I want to know what was said and you say nothing about what was said at all, do you? A. But if it was not written, it doesn't mean we didn't say it. We discussed about when to go to Libya and what to say to Gaddafi and how to be sure to get the $50 million back to me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I would have thought, Your Highness, that when she says on oath that she told you it was your fault and that you should go and apologise, and that you agreed to do that -- because that requires a lot from you, doesn't it? It requires you to go to Colonel Gaddafi and say "Sorry, it is all my fault "and
A. Okay. Could I state my position on what happened at Georges V? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You can do. You can say it now and Mr Freedman will no doubt have something to say about it when he hears what you say for the first time what happened at the Georges V. You tell me what happened at the Georges V. A. At the Georges V, the main objective was to prepare for our trip to go to Libya to meet up with Gaddafi and, sure enough, we went there with a leased plane. We are not going with my plane, because we were concerned that -- we were not sure about he may confiscate the plane or not, so we went in a leased plane and, when I met him, I met him privately and I met him in the presence of her. I think Fouad Alaeddin may have been there also. I don't remember well, but I think Fouad was there also, and he had some of his people and he said -- you know, he ended up apologising to him. He said "What took place is wrong. My people should not have done that", and he actually began cursing his cousin, Ahmad Gaddaf. At that time he said, "We are going to pay you everything and we are going back on track". That is what happened in Libya with him. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We are going to get to Libya, but your long answer there does not tell me anything about
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that you agreed to do that. A. That is not what happened, your Lordship. I contradict that. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You do not disagree with that statement in your evidence, do you? A. But if I don't disagree, it doesn't mean I agree with it. When I went to Gaddafi he is the man who apologised and he said "I should sack my cousin". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm not even sure she was cross-examined on this paragraph. Was she? MR FREEDMAN: I don't think she was. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't think a contrary story was put in cross-examination. I have no notes and I usually put notes when people are cross-examined. I don't believe your counsel cross-examined her on this paragraph. It is important, and I can't understate the importance, that if evidence is disputed, the contrary must be put. Now so far as I'm concerned you don't dispute it in the witness statement and it wasn't put to her. That means that unless you give evidence now and you explain why you are giving it now and I accept it, so far as I'm concerned what happened at the Georges V is as she says. That is the only evidence I have.
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what was said at Georges V again. I will give you one more chance, Your Highness, to tell me what you say was said at the Georges V. Not what was done afterwards; what was said then. A. At the Georges V? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes. A. When we met with Daad, we said "What is the plan when we go to Libya?". She did say, you know, that at that time she was not very happy, the fact that I took the plane, you know, but I told her that I had no other choice but to take the plane, because she believed that this thing disrupted her plan, but I told her, "I had only $70 million and no plane. What recourse do I have on them?", because they could tell me, that is it, they were reneging. So I tried to convince her that I took the plane to safeguard my interest. So that was the first item. Number two, I told her -- she assured me that if we go to Libya, these things could be on track. So I told her, "If they can be on track, then fine", and at that time there was discussion that, "If this thing is consummated, then, again, I will pay you something based on your work". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You mean in your discretion? A. Your Lordship, I always believe that she deserves to get something. The dispute here is my discretion or the
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1 2 conversation. Did you, at the meeting, say to her "Of 3 course, Mrs Sharab, you realise that I will pay you 4 something when I recognise your work, it is entirely at 5 my discretion"? Did you actually use those words at the 6 Georges V? 7 A. I don't recall that exactly, but, you know, it is not 8 impossible. I don't recall it, to be honest. I have to 9 give you the truth exactly. Because my position was 10 I was not even sure that at that trip I will be able to 11 reach an agreement with him. Because we were very 12 concerned, by the way, there was still a lot of tension 13 between us. You know, we didn't go in my plane, we 14 leased a small plane from a company -15 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You didn't want to lose another 16 plane, did you. 17 A. Yes. I was scared he will confiscate it, to be honest 18 with you. So we were still very tense and things were 19 not harmonious. 20 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is that the entirety of what you 21 now tell us, for the first time, happened, you say, at 22 the Georges V? 23 A. Yes, to the best of my recollection. 24 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Freedman will want to take that 25
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't want your belief, but your
meeting between us. Q. So you don't know if that is correct or not correct, but you don't deny it; is that what you are saying? A. I don't recall meeting in the Georges V and leaving together actually. Q. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about why she came to the Georges V. She came because you asked her? A. She came for one purpose: to finalise the deal and to be sure the payment comes back to her. Q. The circumstances were as follows: notwithstanding the fact that you had taken the aircraft or arranged for the aircraft to be taken from Germany to Riyadh in about March 2004, that is 17 months earlier, you were unable to get a resolution of your problem with the Libyans by then, weren't you? A. Fouad Alaeddin went there a few times with her, I think, alone, but with no conclusion, because Al-Dam was adamant about taking commission. Q. I don't really want to waste too much time if there is not an issue between us, particularly in view of your commitments, but I want you to agree, if it is correct that as at 30 August 2005, despite you having got the aircraft 17 months earlier to Riyadh, you had not resolved the problem with the Libyans; is that correct? A. For sure correct, yes.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 up with you. I have probably asked enough questions, for my purpose, for the moment. MR FREEDMAN: I am going to deal slightly out of turn, but it is more important, while we are focusing on the Georges V, to deal with it now. You accept, don't you, that the request that she go to the Georges V came from you? A. You know, I don't recall how it happened, but for sure I met her at the Georges V. I don't recall if I called her or she called me, because we were always communicating during the Libyan crisis. Q. You know very well that you called her and sought her out and sought her help? A. It is a possibility. I don't deny it, but I can't confirm because I don't recall the exact call between me and her. Q. She didn't offer to come to Paris, you asked her to go to Paris. A. No, but she would like to come, for sure, please, she wanted to finish this deal also. Q. Do you deny that she was sought out by you? A. No. What is the question? Q. Do you deny that the reason why she went to Paris was because you requested her to come to Paris? A. I told you, I don't recall exactly what triggered the
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Q. The reason why you sought her to come to Paris was because you sought her assistance at that point to try to resolve the problem with Libya? A. You have to add to that that Fouad went a few times to Libya and Saleh El Ghoul went a few times to Libya. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It didn't work, you still have not got your 50 million. That is Mr Freedman's point. A. No, but, your Lordship, the foundation began getting prepared. Still it was not finalised, and the fact of the matter, I was worried to go with my plane, because sure it was not finalised yet. It was only finalised when I met him personally. MR FREEDMAN: It is not a question of finalisation, it is a question of you being at your wits' end by 30 August 2005. You sought her out because you wanted her to resolve the problem. A. And still it was not resolved. Q. That is why you requested her presence in Paris and that is what the discussion was about? A. I don't understand, why do you try always to eliminate Fouad Alaeddin from the equation? Q. You said that you were fed up and you asked for her assistance in sorting out this long-outstanding problem, didn't you? A. Definitely I was fed up. We were all fed up.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 said? A. That is what the statement says. Q. Do you agree with it?
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Q. You asked for her assistance to sort out this long-outstanding problem, didn't you? A. Her support was needed with the others. Q. You said you wanted the matter closed as quickly as possible and she could then have her commission, didn't you? A. This thing would not have been resolved unless two things had happened: I took the plane from Germany; and my going to Libya, meeting Gaddafi personally. Q. Would you confine your answers to the questions? I'm asking you specifically about what took place on 30 August. I'm suggesting to you that you said to her that you wanted the matter closed as quickly as possible and she could then have her commission? A. Based on my discretion that is a possibility. Q. Not based on her discretion. A. My discretion. Q. You just said she could have her commission? A. My discretion. Q. Do you have a recollection as to what you said about her commission? A. No. Q. Do you think she would have said "That is fine. I'll go along and do anything you like, if there is a possibility that I may, at the exercise of your
A. She wanted me to be in a weak position and she wanted me to go there and apologise, because she believed that Gaddafi will accept to have a deal with me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You know, Your Highness, in negotiations with people with pride, the thing that often undoes them in their stance is when the person on the other side says "I'm very sorry". Apologies are very powerful weapons. That is all she is saying, isn't it? She is actually saying, shrewdly, "Gaddafi's pride has been insulted because you took the plane and that is why, 14 months after you took the plane, you still haven't got a resolution. So if you go there and magnanimously apologise, you will find that you will get a deal". That is what happened, isn't it? A. But there is not -- no, it is not about the price. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It was her suggestion that it would finish the deal. A. Gaddafi was very upset with his cousin and he was really cursing him. And I told Gaddafi, I said "You don't accept bribes, and that man asked for a 20 million-dollar bribe", and he said "I don't accept
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 discretion, have a commission"? A. She could have withdrawn and say "I don't do the deal". No one stopped her. Q. I suggest that it was against the background of your confirmation that she would get her commission that she then proceeded further to help you? A. No one is disputing the fact of commission; the question is the amount of commission. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Rephrase the question. Mr Freedman says that you agreed for her to carry on on the basis that she would get the commission as she says was agreed by you in the Boeing, namely, the 10 million. That is the question Mr Freedman is putting to you. A. Your Lordship, the $10 million was never approved by me, never discussed. I always said "I pay what you I believe is right". I'm very sure about that. MR FREEDMAN: She told you that you were at fault, that you had been making problems and that you should go and apologise to Colonel Gaddafi. A. She said that, but obviously it was incorrect. Q. But you agree that she said that, don't you? A. I don't recall exactly, but she did fault me, she did fault me. I don't care about the -Q. Do you agree that I've summarised the gist of what she
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that" and he was really cursing him. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will come on to that. MR FREEDMAN: She advised you to go to Libya for the Revolution Day celebrations, didn't she? A. Yes, she asked me to attend the event but I said, "No, I will not attend the event, because you will have so many people there and I will be lost with the crowd". So we went a few days later. MR FREEDMAN: : You agreed to go and to give to her a free hand to negotiate a settlement? A. I don't know about this issue of free hand, because Fouad Alaeddin was really the negotiator. She was a supporter. Q. It is not something that is contradicted in your witness statement, is it? A. I don't know. Clearly, she played a role, but I don't know if she had complete control over Fouad. She had to deal with Fouad, because Fouad is the man with the contract. Q. We have seen what your pleading says because you recognised that she was the principal negotiator? A. At that time, she was the principal facilitator, frankly speaking, with Gaddafi. Q. You talk about a facilitator as if that is unimportant. In one sense, being a facilitator is more important than
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being a negotiator, because the facilitator gets you into the room and enables the deal to take place. A. But unfortunately, this facilitator didn't work at all and failed completely because the money was not paid for all these months. Q. Then what happened was that it was agreed that you would go with her and you attended Libya together with her; correct? A. You mean when we went from Paris? Q. Yes? A. Correct. Q. In advance of that meeting, there was prepared, was there not, a draft settlement agreement? If you look in bundle D2, please, tab 108. A. Tab 108. Yes. Q. One of the documents that was prepared in advance, was a release agreement; is that right? A. Can I read it, yes, in Arabic? Yes, yes. Q. What this release agreement is effectively doing is cancelling the original deal, allowing you to hold on to $56 million returning $13 million; correct? A. Can I read it, please? Q. Have a look at it. (Pause) A. Yes, it says that -- yes, it says $70 million, yes. Q. What was happening -- what the release agreement would
Mm-hmm. Correct? Yes, was this signed this agreement, or ... No, it is a draft that was prepared in anticipation of such negotiation. Then what happened was, when you got to Libya, there was a meeting, wasn't there, at which Mr Hijazi, the manager of Colonel Gaddafi's private office, attacked you in the presence of Colonel Gaddafi and Mr Alaeddin for keeping the $70 million? Do you remember that? There was a verbal attack? A. There was no attack, because, when Gaddafi is there, you have to understand, no one talks. The guy couldn't have attacked because they are all shaking and afraid, so the issue of attacking, it cannot be at all on the table. Q. You are quite right that normally Colonel Gaddafi would not be tolerating that, but on this occasion that is what occurred and Colonel Gaddafi sat and listened? A. It is incorrect because Gaddafi was doing all the talking and he was furious and upset from what his cousin did -Q. And -A. -- and he was almost apologetic. Q. What happened was then that Colonel Gaddafi left the tent to pray?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have been, would have been that the deal in relation to the aircraft would be cancelled and there would be paid out -- you would retain $56 million? A. Yes. Q. That is what you wanted; correct? A. That is the settlement agreement, you are right, yes. Q. We can see that figure of 56,957,489. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. We can see that figure elsewhere if you go back in the bundle to tab 97 at page 321. A. Which page, excuse me? Q. Page 97? A. Yes. Q. Page 321. A. Yes. Q. That is the figure of the Airbus cost analysis of 56,957,000 -A. Yes. Q. -- including the so-called loss that you suffered in relation to the Boeing 747? A. Yes. Q. So that was a basis that you were prepared to go Libya for, on the basis that you would have a settlement agreement which would involve a cancellation of the original deal? Page 114
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A. No, I don't recall exactly the praying, but that is what she said, yes. I don't recall that exactly, but I also remember meeting him privately in that meeting. Q. You asked her at that point what you should do and she told you to go round the tent and apologise to him privately? A. I will have to use this word: this is a lie. The first time I use it. That is a big lie. Q. What then happened was that you did follow Colonel Gaddafi and you had a short discussion of about five to seven minutes as you walked outside the tent together with Colonel Gaddafi? A. That is also another lie. Q. When you -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What part is a lie, the five to ten minutes or the short discussion? A. Your Lordship, we went there and we sat with Gaddafi and I met him privately for a few minutes, I think 10 or 15 minutes, and then we came back. And then he was, I will not say apologetic, but he said that what took place is wrong, unacceptable, and that we would now rectify the matter and go back on track. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The question that Mr Freedman put you to, the only difference is whether it is 5 to 10 minutes, or 10 to 15 minutes. What is the lie?
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A. We did not go walking. The lies are twofold. First of all, Hijazi did not talk in the presence of Gaddafi; and the second lie is that I didn't go and follow Gaddafi, I met him privately, we went together in a side tent to talk alone and then we came back to the present. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Freedman put to you that you had a short discussion that lasted 5 or 10 minutes with Colonel Gadaffi. A. Alone. and you said that is also a lie. What is it about Mr Freedman's question that is untruthful? A. I will tell you what is untruthful. He said, number one, Al Hijazi attacked me. That is the first one. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is the first one. You said "This one is also a lie". What is it about Mr Freedman's question where he simply says you had a short discussion of 5 to 10 minutes with Colonel Gaddafi alone, what is a lie about that? A. I'll tell you what the mistake is. Let's not say "a lie". She says that he went to pray and that I went to follow him. It's like in an apologetic manner. That is not true. What happened was that Gaddafi asked me to go and talk to him alone, we went and talked privately in another tent or side tent, I'm not sure exactly
if you were worried he might seize another of your jets in retaliation. That's what you were worried about, wasn't it? A. That's why we leased the plane, a small plane. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Not your plane? A. No, no, no. It was leased from France so it is not confiscatable or groundable. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You did that because you thought that Colonel Gaddafi, having, in his eyes, seen you snatch his plane, might snatch yours in retaliation? A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is difficult for you to persuade me that you had such a good relationship with him that you can go and talk with him when you daren't even take one of your planes there. A. At that time, your Lordship, things were -- you know, deteriorated and that is why Daad was involved. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is her case. A. Sure, sure, we are not denying that. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You seem to accept now that she was brought in then to re-open the door which, rightly or wrongly, your taking the plane had caused it to be shut. I'm not saying you are wrong in taking the plane, it is Colonel Gaddafi's reaction. A. But remember --
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Alone. Mr Freedman put that to you 10
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 where, then we went back to the tent where everybody was present and then we talked publicly. So that is the lie. She is implying that he went to pray and I followed him, and that is not true. We went together, because, you know, many times I used to go to Gaddafi and we had lunch and dinner together alone with no one present for him to talk to me about how he would like to rehabilitate faster in the world community, after the sanctions were raised, et cetera, et cetera. He was obsessed at that time on how could he be accepted by world committees in Europe and the United States. MR FREEDMAN: Why didn't you go Colonel Gaddafi without Mrs Sharab at the beginning of September 2005, if you had such a close relationship with Colonel Gaddafi? A. Yes, at that time, you know, the communication between us was almost stopped, because I took the plane and he was furious and he gave us a few offers that were insulting whereby he said "We cancel the deal", or "You keep $70 million get us a plane". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The relationship was so bad at this time that you were even frightened to take your own plane there. That is why you hired the jet for this visit, wasn't it? A. Yes, it was tense. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He shut the door. You couldn't get to see him anymore, could you? A. But when I went to Libya -- remember, your Lordship, at that time, things reversed. I had the plane and I had my $70 million, so he was in a weak position, not me, and this happened because of me taking the plane. So things were reversed because I took the plane and then I became in a -- more in the driver's seat, as you say. MR FREEDMAN: You weren't in the driveler's seat at all. A. I was. Q. Because if you were in the driver's seat, you would have been able to go without Mrs Sharab. A. No, because I'm honourable and I still wanted to get my $50 million and give him back the plane. Q. One of your agendas was not to get the $50 million, a possibility was that you would retain most of the $70 million? A. If he played hard ball, I played hard ball with him. Q. What happened was that Mrs Sharab suggested that you had a discussion outside the tent with Colonel Gaddafi? A. It was not outside. It was a private discussion between me and him. It was not outside the tent, it was inside the tent. Q. You referred to the fact that it was 10 to 15 minutes, rather than 5 to 7 minutes, and then, following that,
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I would say it was more than tense, 25
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what happened was that you came back and very shortly
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1 2 Mrs Sharab and Mr Alaeddin to settle the matter, didn't 3 you? 4 A. That is -- that is correct. 5 Q. What happened after your conversation -- are you able to 6 contradict the fact that after your conversation with 7 Colonel Gaddafi, Mrs Sharab advised Colonel Gaddafi to 8 pay the $50 million and complete the sale of the 9 aircraft? 10 A. No, that is not what happened. 11 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How do you know? You weren't 12 there. 13 A. No, no, because when I met Gaddafi -14 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: How do you know? You weren't there 15 at the discussions. That is why Mr Freedman is putting 16 it to you. 17 A. I'm saying to your Lordship, when I met Colonel Gaddafi, 18 Colonel Gaddafi said "We are going to pay the 50". So 19 automatically this contradicts what he is saying, 20 Gaddafi said "We are going back on track", and he 21 actually said Al-Dam is not a good man, et cetera, 22 et cetera. So in the meeting with Gaddafi, he said that 23 $50 million has to be paid to go back on track. 24 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Merely because he says it does not 25
thereafter you told Colonel Gaddafi that you would leave
Q. Her evidence is that what happened then was that she told Colonel Gaddafi to pay the difference and to solve the problem; in other words, pay the $50 million? A. You mean she ordered them to pay it? Q. Then what happened was that you told Colonel Gaddafi that she and Mr Alaeddin should sort the matter out and enter into an agreement? A. In that meeting, Gaddafi was apologetic and he was attacking the -- his cousin, and he said "This matter has to be put back on track", and that is what happened. Then I left, and Fouad and Daad left, and I don't know what happened between them and Gaddafi. Q. If you look at the pleadings again, if we go to bundle A, please, which are the pleadings. If you look at bundle A at, first of all, tab 2 and if you would go in tab 2, please, to page 15? A. 15? Q. Yes. At paragraph 54 what we see there in the claim of Mrs Sharab -A. Which number, please? Q. Page 15, the bottom of the page is paragraph 54: "The subject of the Airbus was discussed between the defendant and Mr Hijazi in heated terms. During the course of that meeting, the claimant effected a reconciliation between the defendant and
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 make it so. He signed the document whereby he agreed to pay this 50 million anyway and he didn't pay you. A. Yes, but second time he did pay, because I had the plane and he wanted to get the plane. And remember, at that time, your Lordship, Al-Dam was playing a game in Libya by leaking to the people in Libya that Gaddafi was ripped off by paying an exuberant price. So Gaddafi was very much under pressure and he wanted to, like, settle this matter very quickly and not to have it pending anymore. MR FREEDMAN: Do you accept that, outside your hearing and following your conversation with Colonel Gaddafi, there was a discussion between Mrs Sharab and Colonel Gaddafi? A. You mean during the meeting in -Q. After you had had your conversation with Colonel Gaddafi, there was a conversation between the claimant, Mrs Sharab and Colonel Gaddafi? A. In my presence? Q. Not in your presence. A. How would I know that, if I left that. Q. You are unable to contradict it, aren't you? A. I'm not able to confirm it. Q. You cannot contradict it? A. I'm not able to confirm it, how can I confirm it if I left?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Colonel Gaddafi, as a result of which Colonel Gaddafi announced that the problem of the plane would be solved and the defendant said that he would leave the claimant and Mr Alaeddin to do so, arranging for their collection 24 hours later. The defendant left Libya the same day." In response to that at paragraph 37, you say -A. 37? Q. Paragraph 37, which is tab 3, page 28, tab 3, the same bundle, page 28. A. Yes. Q. You say that paragraph 54 is admitted, save it is denied that the claimant effected the reconciliation alleged and that Colonel Gaddafi announced that the problem of the plane would be solved. So you say very little about that paragraph. Let's go back to paragraph 54 to page 15. You admit that the subject of the Airbus was discussed between the defendant and Mr Hijazi in heated terms, so that is contrary to the evidence which you just gave to my Lord, isn't it? A. I said to my Lord Colonel Gaddafi announced that the problem would be resolved, I think Gaddafi was the -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Not that part, it is the first sentence Mr Freedman is suggesting, that you admit the first sentence of that photograph in your pleading. In
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accommodative because he wanted the plane to come back also. So this meeting was, at the end, being very friendly and really we almost finalised everything at that meeting, whereby Gaddafi had then paid the $50 million. But now, as for the heated discussion, I say it here very well, I really say it was not very heated, although I see the word "heated" here, which is contradicted, I see that. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Baker, who said that he believed it was true, could only have obtained your admission from you. Nobody else would have told him that you accept that there was a heated discussion. So Mr Baker must have misunderstood what you said when he prepared this defences; is that right? A. It is a possibility, because I know there was a discussion, but not heated. I can't say it was heated. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I know that you are in the middle of this, but would that be a convenient moment? MR FREEDMAN: My Lord, yes. It is taking slightly longer than I had expected. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I thought you might say that. MR FREEDMAN: I just explore if there is any possibility of your Lordship sitting a bit late tonight? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I have no train to catch.
A. Hijazi was there, but he was not really -- just talking. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So why did you admit that in the pleading? A. I don't know. For sure, it is an error, because I remember that Hijazi was there, but was not attacking. Before Gaddafi, they cannot talk at all these people, they are very worried. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You want me now to accept in Day 5 of the trial, for the first time, there is an error in your pleading on this point? Is that what you want me to accept? A. Again, my Lord? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm told it is Day 6. On Day 6, for the first time, you tell me that the first sentence of paragraph 54, which you admit, is a mistake? A. There was a discussion, but, you know, the word "heated" that is the particular word here, "heated". Clearly it is a slip, for sure. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What is a slip? A. Because Hijazi cannot dare to talk before Gaddafi in a heated manner at all, and Gaddafi was trying to be very accommodating with me by saying "I want to resolve this problem first". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You have had this pleading in an
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I thought, subject to the shorthand writers and His Highness having an appropriate break, that we should try and sit to finish this evidence tonight. MR FREEDMAN: Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Do you agree? MR FREEDMAN: Yes, I do agree. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm going to sit until you finish, but you should understand that I fully understand how difficult it is giving evidence. There is no strength or machismo in sitting in there giving evidence when you feel you want a break or there is pressure. It is not a sign of weakness when you say "I would like to have a break". It is like when the shorthand writers say "You are speaking too fast", it doesn't mean they are inadequate, it means you are speaking too fast. I want to sit until you finish, but you must tell me when you feel it is oppressive, because I fully understand, however experienced a businessman you are, being in the witness-box is a very lonely and pressured affair. So you must tell me, but I think it is important we try to finish the evidence today. A. No worry, your Lordship, we finish the night, as much as you want. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: They turn the lights out at 10 o'clock --
1 2 3 4 5 6 A. There was a discussion but not heated. 7 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Why are you saying that now in 8 Day 6 of the trial for the first time? 9 A. It was a discussion, but I would definitely say it is 10 not heated, because the guy is -11 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand what you are saying, 12 Your Highness, but I want to know why you are saying it 13 now, as opposed to not having said it in your defence 14 and, I suspect, not in your witness statement either. 15 A. I have no explanation for that. But I can assure you 16 there was a discussion, but not heated, because Hijazi 17 and all the people under Gaddafi are very afraid of him 18 and they can barely speak, and clearly Hijazi was trying 19 to be a tough man with me by saying, you know, "You took 20 the plane", but in a very gentle manner. Well, it can't 21 be heated, because he cannot tell to me against Gaddafi 22 and, also, remember that Gaddafi, at that time, did not 23 want to antagonise me, because remember also I had the 24 plane and my $70 million also. So he was also 25
amended form, but I think this is probably in the original, since 2012, and you have had it in the original since 2007. Why is it now that you only say that you don't admit that there was a heated discussion because it would not have taken place in front of Colonel Gaddafi?
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MR FREEDMAN: My Lord, with your Lordship's permission, I wonder if this would be a convenient moment to have the video introduced into cross-examination? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think that is a good idea. I don't know if you got the message back, I have staff cover until 6.00 pm. MR FREEDMAN: I'm definitely going to finish well before then. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Good. If not, we will take stock at 6.00 pm. It might be that I'm sitting a la "Billy No Mates" which means I will have to boot you all out myself and lock the door and turn out the lights, for which I get no extra pay. MR FREEDMAN: The arrangement is that, whenever the court is ready, we can press play there and have it played there. There is no sound with it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You have seen it, have you? A. Yes, I saw it. MR FREEDMAN: It lasts about 47 seconds. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Let's play it then. (Video played) Can you tell me who that is? A. That is Fouad Alaeddin, that is Michael Jenson with me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He is your lawyer, is he? A. These are advisers and this is my personal bodyguard.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: -- and evict us, because it is not our building, it is owned by an investment company. The second thing, there is a DVD of this meeting, isn't there? MR FREEDMAN: Yes, there is. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Are you going put that to him? MR FREEDMAN: I was in two minds. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I know, that is why I asked you several days ago via my clerk. MR FREEDMAN: I will tell you about the workings of my mind, if there is one, and that is that I had formed a view that I would then put it, and then I, the only reluctance is about using valuable time for it. That is the only -- it is a pressure about time, rather than a pressure about relevance. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is a matter for you. I have looked at the DVD. MR FREEDMAN: I think I will put it, my Lord. That is my view. Have you seen the DVD of the start of meeting? A. When the -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Have you seen it? It is in the documents, but you might not have seen it.
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I think we should look at the DVD. 20
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This is the telecom person with me. This is the travel department. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Did Colonel Gaddafi allow your bodyguard to be armed when you went there? A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He did? A. Yes. This is the daughter of Daad. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes, I thought that. Team photo. This is in the same room, is it? A. This is in the tent, sir, yes. This is the camera lady that works for me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Who is that? A. The camera lady, a Saudi lady who works with me, and this is now the video lady, who works with me also. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Right, okay. I think we should leave that on in case anybody wants to come back to the actual DVD, if that is possible. We might not necessarily agree as to what it shows. MR FREEDMAN: People will make their own observations, but I'm interested to hear your reaction. Would you agree with me that that video shows that Colonel Gaddafi was very much at ease with Mrs Sharab? A. Yes. Q. And he was also at ease with her daughter, Noor? A. Exactly like he was at ease with me also, yes.
1 something is wrong, but I don't recall at all. 2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can he be shown it over lunchtime? 3 MR PYMONT: We can try. 4 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It worked on my laptop and I give 5 you permission to talk to His Highness with a view to 6 him watching the DVD. I think it is important that he 7 sees it. 8 A. So I can comment on it? 9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: When you are asked questions about 10 it, yes, but I want you to be forewarned fairly as to 11 what it shows, because you might think of things as 12 opposed to under the pressure of being in the box. Have 13 we got a screen here? 14 A. We can sit here, your Lordship, if you don't mind. We 15 can sit here, if you don't mind that. 16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Sit here to do what? 17 A. Or sit outside. 18 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You can sit in here, if you like. 19 Let's see if we can get it on the computer so we can all 20 look at it at the same time when His Highness is asked 21 questions about it. All right? 22 (1.05 pm) 23 (The short adjournment) 24 (2.05 pm) 25
A. I don't recall seeing it, frankly speaking. I don't say
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Q. More so than with you, much more so than with you.
1 2 was good, but it had many ups and downs also. She was 3 thrown in prison by him also, lately. 4 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That might be because he thought 5 she stabbed him in the back over this deal. We are not 6 at that scenario now, we are at the time -7 MR FREEDMAN: We are looking at this in September 2005 8 aren't we? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Would you agree with me, as at September 2005, 11 Colonel Gaddafi was more at ease with Mrs Sharab than he 12 was with you? 13 A. I don't expect him to hug me like he hugged her for 14 sure, I'm a man, but his personal interests was with me 15 and his business was with me really, because if he 16 wanted to have access to the world, he would do it 17 through me, not through Daad. 18 Q. We can see also that when Mrs Sharab sits near him and 19 ushers your staff into photographs with Colonel Gaddafi, 20 we can see that there is a real rapport between 21 Mrs Sharab and Colonel Gaddafi, can we not? 22 A. It is a matter of interpretation. 23 Q. But you were there, so you have the advantage over us. 24 Would you agree with that interpretation? 25
A. You have to remember that Daad's relationship with him
Q. You were annoyed because that video gave Mrs Sharab and her daughter greater prominence than you? A. That is what she claims. Not true. Q. You are very keen, aren't you, about the degree of your prominence in the media? A. The objective of that meeting was to get the full payment done, nothing else. Q. But you are very keen, you are very jealous about the way in which the media portray you, aren't you? A. No. We manage our personality very carefully, because, you know, I'm a Muslim, I'm an Arab, I am a Saudi and a member of the royal family, and all these, in some media outlets, are looked at as taboos. Q. You have a public relations department, do you? A. Like any other company, my company has it, yes. Q. If you pick up bundle G1 -A. G1. Q. G1. I would ask you to look behind tab 2 in bundle G1. A. Tab 2, yes. Q. At page 3 there is an article by Forbes about you, and in the last paragraph on page 3, about eight lines down, it refers to your authorised biography. It says -- and we are referring to this book, aren't we? This is your authorised biography, isn't it? A. Yes, correct.
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Q. It says: "When his authorised biography, 'Alwaleed: Businessman, Billionaire Prince' appeared in 2005, that photo appeared on the back cover, this time with Alwaleed in front, courtesy ... The Prince later admitted to Forbes" -I will read the bit before it. Let me start from the beginning of the paragraph: "Image is everything to Prince Alwaleed. He meets with very important people. His staff issues a press release with a photo seemingly every time he interacts with someone who is big, or who might be big, or someone who sounds big. In 2003, he was photographed behind George W Bush, Jordan's King Abdullah, Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah and Egyptian President, Hosni Mubarak. When his authorised biography 'Alwaleed: Businessman, Billionaire Prince' appeared in 2005, that photo appeared on the back cover, this time with Alwaleed in front." So what is being suggested, if you go to the end of this bundle, behind tab 6 at page 28? A. Which page, please. Q. 28? A. The same bundle? Q. Yes.
1 it was very cordial, definitely. 2 Q. Would you agree that vis-a-vis Colonel Gaddafi generally 3 in that video, Mrs Sharab assumes a greater prominence 4 with Colonel Gaddafi than you? 5 A. For sure not, because you don't know the Arab discussion 6 and habits. For sure, this shows ignorance in that 7 particular situation. 8 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is why we want to know what 9 your thoughts are. 10 A. For sure not. The fact that you are sitting next to him 11 does not mean much at all. It means that she is close 12 to him personally but the fact that I'm to his 13 right-hand side, in the Arab world, if you sit at the 14 right-hand side, that is where the actual deference is. 15 That is what the video showed exactly. 16 MR FREEDMAN: Was this filmed by Al Jazeera? 17 A. I don't know, I have no idea, I don't know. 18 Q. Did you not know that video achieved some prominence in 19 the Arab media? 20 A. I don't know if it was particularly Al Jazeera because 21 there is no sign of it. 22 Q. Whether it was Al Jazeera or some other station within 23 the Arab world, it did get some broadcasting, didn't it? 24 A. I think it was publicised, yes. 25
A. Sure, I can't say that the relationship was not cordial,
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A. Yes. Q. What is being said there is that whereas in reality in that photograph you were at the back of the photograph, for the purpose of your authorised biography you had that photograph on the back cover with you now put at the front as if you were leading these world leaders. Is that correct? A. This was the idea of Riz Khan, yes, and these people, all these leaders were actually sitting and staying in the Four Seasons, your Lordship, and at that time the Four Seasons was owned by us, so all were under our -they were staying under our invitation, George Bush, I think King Abdullah, and King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. Q. So keen were you about your image that whereas in reality in this picture you were behind the world leaders, for the purpose of the picture and the authorised biography it has you standing at the front? A. That is incorrect. I was just behind George Bush. I was not behind the picture, no, I was behind George Bush. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is there a copy of the original picture? MR FREEDMAN: No. A. But it is correct that this picture was doctored by --
when you confirmed that you would pay the commission? After the settlement agreement, you left. 24 hours later, Mr Alaeddin and Mrs Sharab left, and I mentioned to you before that you then telephoned Mrs Sharab to express your thanks and gratitude for her efforts and success. You accept that, don't you? A. Sure, she did a good job, no doubt. Q. On that occasion, you reconfirmed that you would pay her the full commission of $10 million, didn't you? A. This is a completely false and incorrect statement, no. I'm consistent. I never, ever committed to $10 million, I said "I will pay you based on my discretion. This is non-negotiable." Q. Just so we understand, are you saying that your response on that occasion was that you would pay her based on your discretion? A. My position -- I don't know about this particular call, but my position from inception to the end, up to this minute, that any payment to her has to be at my discretion and no amount whatever was discussed about 10 or less or more. Q. What do you know about this particular call, because I'm only asking you about this particular call? A. Which call? Can you show me the call? Q. Your call when you expressed your gratitude and thanks
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and telephoned her to do that? A. It could happen. Q. What happened? A. Maybe it happened, but no discussion of the discussion. I mean, for sure, no discussion of amounts. Q. You said "Maybe it happened". Before, you said it did happen that you expressed your gratitude? A. I'm not going to record all calls with her. I mean, it could have happened. I'm not sure if it happened or not, but if it happened, and it may have happened, for sure there was no discussion about a commission, $10 million, no way. Q. You don't recall the call, what happened in the call? A. I didn't say that. Don't put words the my mouth, please. I didn't say that. I said, if it happened, no discussion whatsoever of the amount was discussed. No way. I'm adamant about that. Q. But you do accept that were there were discussions after the settlement agreement about commission, don't you? A. I acknowledge that I kept talking to her, because at that time I wanted the money to come. Q. But you do accept that there were conversations after the settlement agreement when there were discussions about commission? A. What I accept is that I wanted my money to come and any
1 Commissar Vanishes", which covers all this? 2 3 A. No, but I shall read it now. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Because Stalin edits pictures over 4 a period. In fact, at one stage, there was a famous 5 address by Lenin in the Square when Trotsky was there 6 but Stalin wasn't, but by 1936 Trotsky disappeared and 7 Stalin was very famous. 8 9 A. What is the name of the book, sir? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: "The Commissar Vanishes", it is a 10 good book. Even in the 1920s they doctored photographs 11 to show people moving closer and further away. 12 13 A. You see, Riz Khan, the writer of the book, wanted to do 14 that, so he did it. Q. But this was an authorised biography, wasn't it? 15 16 A. No, but he did it. I didn't mind it. Q. It was all with your blessing and sanction? 17 18 A. Authorised, but I didn't write the book obviously. Q. It was with your blessing and sanction? 19 20 A. No, it was my authorisation, not blessing. Q. It was such an important book to you that, when people 21 come and visit you, you give them that as a going home 22 present? 23 24 A. I think people know me more than the book. Q. Can I now go back to the subject about other instances 25
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Have you read a book called "The
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time she brought up the issue I said "I need my money, and then my discretion to pay whatever I think is right". This was confirmed by her letters to me that she said "Give me my commission", but never mentioned the amount, which confirms the point of view that no amount was discussed. Q. But you do accept that there was a discussion about commission, albeit that it wasn't, on your view, about the amount? A. For sure, she is seeking commission. I mean, definitely she is not working for free. Definitely she wants to have her commission. It is her right also. I didn't deny that. I always said I need to pay her commission, she has done a good job. The question is the amount. That's the dispute. The whole thing is about the amount, what's the amount? Q. Because it is a part of your evidence that you accept she regularly referred to wanting a commission? A. Definitely, she is not working for free. Q. Your evidence was, and we saw it earlier, that after the settlement agreement she regularly spoke to you seeking a commission? A. Actually, she wrote letters, more importantly letters, she wrote letters. Q. The letters are a year later. We will come to that, but
Q. You confirmed to her on that occasion, that you would pay her the 10-million-dollar commission? A. My answer is the same. Q. You told her that you had already said that she would get the commission and she asked for that in writing and you refused? A. If I accepted to give her $10 million, I would have transferred it to her, even if it was not in writing. Q. One of the points that you object to about her behaviour is that you say that it was wrong for her to hold on to the settlement agreement in order to secure the commission; do you remember that? A. I remember that Fouad told me that the agreement was finalised with the Libyans but it was not delivered to me, I remember that, yes. Q. We can see it in your evidence at page 52 of the small bundle. Tab 3, page 52, paragraph 47, you say: "At some point after the execution of the settlement agreement, my relationship with the claimant began to deteriorate. I was gaining the impression" -A. After the execution of ...? Q. The settlement agreement. A. Which is the new agreement, you mean? Q. Yes, we are talking about the new agreement.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 at the moment we are in September 2005. The next conversation I suggest to you happened about a week later. You called her from Saudi Arabia while she was still in London and you asked her to ensure that the Libyans signed the settlement agreement. Do you remember that call? A. I don't remember the call but I remember for sure there were communications between me and Fouad Alaeddin also because Fouad Alaeddin is going to play an instrumental role in which he is going draft the agreement. Q. You were explaining that you were keen to close the deal? A. And get my money back, sure, 50. Q. She repeated that she would only do the deal if she got the 10 million-dollar commission agreed and you confirmed that would occur once the outstanding $50 million was paid? A. I told you I'm consistent. Never, ever I accepted $10 million and never, ever I uttered that word. Q. Then after receiving the signed settlement agreement, when she got the signed settlement agreement, she called you in Saudi Arabia from London and she asked for your confirmation that you wanted to proceed with that deal and that you would pay the 10-million-dollar commission? A. What is the question, please? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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A. Yes. Q. "I was gaining the impression that her true allegiances in connection to the transaction were increasingly with the Libyans rather than to me. I recall that Mrs Sharab refused to release a copy of the signed settlement agreement to me in an attempt to secure a commission payment from me, which confirmed in my mind that she was not acting in my interests. I was not happy with this and was ultimately able to obtain a copy directly from the Libyans, to whom I had direct access." Can I ask you about this? Holding on to the settlement agreement in order to secure that she would get payment, how is that different, in your mind, from your holding on to the aeroplane and not returning it to Libya? A. It is not only that, I was not even aware that the settlement was done, because Gaddafi did not communicate it to me at that time and Fouad told me that the agreement is on the verge of being completed, but I was telling him -- I was keep asking Fouad and her "When is the agreement going to be sent to me?", and I never got an answer, until later on, we got to know from the Libyans when I sent I think -- I believe -- I'm not sure -- Saleh El Ghoul was sent to Libya to look into the matter and they told him that the agreement was
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signed. You had signed the agreement hadn't you? Later on, yes. I think you signed at an earlier stage, didn't you? I signed, I don't recall exactly when I signed, but it was not effective until they signed also. Q. What is the difference, so far as you are concerned, between your holding on to the aircraft in order to secure your position and Mrs Sharab holding on to the settlement agreement to secure her position? A. There is a big difference, for sure. Q. What is that difference? A. The difference is that I have a signed agreement with the Libyans to pay me 120 and they only paid 70. While she was -- I will not say she was holding the agreement, but she was hiding the fact that the Libyans were in agreement right now to transfer the money to me. Q. Your concern at paragraph 47 is that in an attempt to secure a commission payment from you, she is refusing to release a copy of the signed agreement. What is wrong with that? A. Because I'm consistent, I told her, and I keep saying, that I will pay the commission based on my discretion. Q. Do I understand this correctly: if it was the case that there was an agreement to pay a commission rather than Q. A. Q. A.
personal relationship with Colonel Gaddafi were not strong enough to ensure a prompt completion of the sale after it had been agreed, nor did they prevent the bribery attempt that caused further mistrust and delay. "In my view, the two crucial steps in forcing a resolution of the issues were taken by me and at my initiative. The first was my decision to return the Airbus to Riyadh rather than to Tripoli after its scheduled maintenance in Germany in March/April 2004. The second was the settlement that I reached personally with Colonel Gaddafi in Tripoli on 1 September 2005." Now, what I want to ask you first of all is this: it wasn't within the power, was it, of Mrs Sharab, to prevent a bribery attempt, was it? A. No, for sure not. Q. So that couldn't be a criticism of her? A. No. Q. If other people tried to sabotage the deal, again that couldn't be a criticism of her, could it? A. No, but if she had enough influence with Gaddafi, she would have told him to stop the bribe and have the deal go through. She had enough influence with him to have this door opened but not to have it go through that door. Q. We will come to how she gets you through the door, but
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 something at your discretion, that would be fine? Your problem was that in your view there is no agreement between you and her? A. No, I didn't say that. I said that she deserves the commission. And I was planning to give her a commission. But I will not accept that this to be a quid pro quo, that once I get my money, based on my discretion and the amount of work she delivered and she did, I will give her based on my discretion. I was very consistent about this with her and Fouad Alaeddin. Q. Let's look at the way that you portray the matter in your witness statement in relation to her role in the eventual sale of Airbus. If you stay at page 52 of this bundle, the small bundle, and we go to the conclusion. At paragraph 50 you say: "In conclusion, I accept that the claimant and Mr Alaeddin each played a role in the eventual sale of the Airbus. The claimant's contacts in Libya were important and she participated in the introduction and facilitation of meetings with Colonel Gaddafi in connection with the sale of the Airbus. Equally important was the negotiating role of Mr Alaeddin. As events transpired, however, it became clear that there was a limit to the claimant's and Mr Alaeddin's effectiveness, for example the claimant's contacts and
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you say that the first crucial step to force a resolution of the issue was your decision to return the Airbus to Riyadh rather than Tripoli in March/April 2004. If that was a crucial step, can you explain why it was that by the end of August 2005, 17 months later, you had to call on Mrs Sharab to seek her assistance to open the door to resolve the issue? A. I remember at that time I had the plane and I have $70 million, so I was in the driving seat at the time and they were in the weaker position. They were sending me messages continuously and they were contradictory messages. One from Gaddafi, for example, and one from his chief of staff and one from his intelligence staff, each one giving conflicting messages. One message was "You keep 70, we'll take our plane and $50 million and forget it". The second message was "Abolish the whole deal", and the third message was really just some other kind of proposal that I declined completely. Q. Can you please slow it down slightly? A. I said that I was getting conflicting messages from Gaddafi's people, one message was to keep the $70 million with me and surrendering the 50 and forgetting about it; the second proposal was to abolish the whole concept, the whole idea, and I take back my
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. It is right, is it not, that when the plane went from
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plane and I give them back the money; and many other ideas that came, you know, were floated around by the head of the airlines, by the intelligence, et cetera. I need to correct something. I didn't really take the plane. I just took -- I was repossessing my plane, because a very crucial point here, your Lordship, is that the plane was always under my name. It was never transferred to them, because if it was transferred to them, I would be in a very weak position. Q. That is ignoring the fact that you took it under a pretence that it was going to go for re-registration which would take a short period of time in Saudi Arabia? A. No, no, no, no. The plane was in Frankfurt with Lufthansa and the pilot actually was my pilot, and the pilot knew about the whole thing, so I told him about it so he just got the plane back to Riyadh. Q. The consent of the Libyans to the plane going to Frankfurt was that it was going for maintenance purposes only; isn't that right? A. They took possession of it and it needed maintenance, so it had to go for maintenance at that time. You know, there is a schedule that the 340 takes maintenance every six months. Q. The basis on which they released it to go to Frankfurt was not that it would go to Riyadh, but it would go to
Germany to Riyadh, it went without the agreement of the Libyans; is that right? A. That is a correct statement. Q. Without informing the Libyans of your intention to hold on to the aircraft? A. I didn't need to because the plane was still under my name. Q. You do agree with me that it went to Riyadh without your informing the Libyans of your intentions? A. I don't need to, because it is my plane and I didn't get paid for it. Q. Do I take it from that that you agree with me? A. Agree with what? Q. My question, which I asked twice, was: do you agree that you sent the aeroplane to Riyadh without informing the Libyans of your intentions that it should go to Riyadh? A. Yes, I took possession of the plane because they did not pay, yes, that is a correct statement. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The second question was also that you told them it was going there for re-registration. MR FREEDMAN: Do you agree with that? A. No, when the plane was taken to Riyadh, there was no discussion whatsoever about the registration, but when the plane arrived to Riyadh, I told them "You pay me and
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Frankfurt for maintenance purposes and then back to Libya? A. No, it was not really. The plane had to go for maintenance otherwise it would be grounded. There is a period where, every six months, it has to go to Lufthansa and we had a contact with Lufthansa where the plane had to go there every six months. Q. It went to Germany simply for maintenance, didn't it? A. It went for maintenance, yes. Q. What happened was that you pretended to the Libyans that the reason why it would go to Riyadh would be simply for the purpose of re-registration? A. The captain got to know the whole story, and the plane came to us, and it is not true that we told them for registration. But when the plane came to Riyadh, I tried to gain time with them. I told them "I will keep the plane for re-registration, until you pay me the full amount". Q. Why don't you just simply agree that it was for the purpose of re-registration? A. Because I linked the deregistration and the registering under the name with the payment that they were supposed to pay me, so this was another pressuring mechanism on them to pay me the $50 million and I'd have the plane registered under their name.
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I will deregister it and send it to you registered under your name". Q. If all of that was as clever as you thought, with you holding all the bargaining chips, it had not worked, had it, after 17 months, because it should have unlocked everything within a short period of time and it didn't? A. I mean, you are so wrong on that statement. I was in a strong position. I had my plane and $70 million. Now the Libyans were now begging and they are asking to have a deal. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That not what you say in your witness statement. If you look at paragraph 42 of your witness statement. A. What I say? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Page 51. "Between May 2004 and August 2005, little progress was made with the Libyans. The Libyans were maintaining their position and demanding the return of the Airbus. I refused to make the payment of the sum of $50 million." Nothing is happening. A. Yes, but I was in a good position at the time. They want the plane or they want to cancel the deal. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Are you aware of the concept that is called the "Mexican stand-off"? Do you know what
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 A. It is mine. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That's not the question. A. It is under my name. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Did you use the plane? A. Sure I can use it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: But did you? A. I can use it if I want to, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No, can you -A. No, I didn't use it. I kept it in Riyadh.
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A. No. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is when two people are not prepared to talk to each other and things are just standing there and nothing is happening. Now, it seems to me that what is happening between April, or between May and August is that you have their plane but they still have your $50 million, and you ultimately have a bargaining position because you have the plane and you have 70 million of their dollars, but they are not accepting that and sooner or later you are going to have to address it. So both sides are just standing there waiting for the one to make the move, but taking the plane, as Mr Freedman has put to you, might have given you a bargaining position if you get to the table, but for 14 months they were not prepared to come to the table. What got them to the table was the claimant taking you out to Libya. That is why you spoke to her. That is why you got her at the Georges V. "Come and help me, Daad". She has got to open the door for you because the door is shut. A. In the meanwhile, there was discussion between me and
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It sat on the runway, didn't it? A. I kept it in Riyadh because there was concern that they may do something, sure. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So it just sits there and you have the cost, presumably, of preserving it. A. But I had my $70 million also, your Lordship, I had my $70 million. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You had the $70 million, yes. A. And they were still not accepting, even then, to pay the $50 million and to finalise it. And, sure, the second crucial item besides me taking the possession of the plane was meeting Gaddafi in Tripoli and, yes, she played a role in that, I'm not denying that. MR FREEDMAN: She organised that. A. We are not denying that. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Without her, there would have been
24 the Libyans and Fouad went several times there. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He didn't get anywhere either, did 25
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he? You still have the plane but you have not got the dispute resolved. A. What concluded the matter was when I went personally to Gaddafi there and I said, "Let's finalise this whole thing", and he accepted that. No one is denying the fact that she played a role, I'm not trying to underestimate that, but let's not overexaggerate that also. MR FREEDMAN: Let's take that in stages. You are saying, paragraph 51 of your statement: "A crucial step in forcing a resolution of the issue was [your] decision to return the Airbus to Riyadh." Now, on the basis of the stand-off that was occurring, it wasn't a crucial step, because it didn't work. A. To me, it worked, because I had my plane and my money. So they are in a weak position, not me. Q. You didn't have the extra $50 million? A. But I had the plane. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What can you do with the plane? You have two others to fly around in.
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A. Your Lordship, please, permit me, for the first time, to disagree with you on that subject. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You can disagree with me any number of times. In fact, if you disagree with things I say, I want to hear it. It is important that I know when you disagree with what I say. A. At that time, things were very turbulent with all the people under Gaddafi: the head of intelligence, the airlines person and the chief of staff, everybody. So we had to go to Gaddafi personally and, yes, she played a role in opening that door to him. I'm not denying that at all. Yes, I'm confirming it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: As Mr Freedman said, if you didn't need her to open the door, there was nothing to stop you flying to Libya -- in a hired jet, of course, in case he snatched your jet. But it is clear, isn't it, that, September 2005, you called her because you were getting nowhere? A. I'm not denying that and she played a role in that for sure. I'm confirming that, I'm saying yes, sir. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Okay. MR FREEDMAN: But on that basis, her step of organising that trip for you is a more crucial step than your taking the Airbus, isn't it?
22 A. I had the plane, so they were told "You pay 23 $50 million". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The plane is no good to you. Did 24 25 you use it in that period?
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A. For sure, I reject that completely, adamantly. Without me getting the plane, this whole thing would have been meaningless to go there, because if I didn't get my plane, this thing would have been going on for the next decade or two decades. The crucial element -90 per cent of the solution is getting the plane back to Riyadh and it is not going to Libya. Q. We have been through that and so far as the second of those steps was the fact that there was a settlement which you reached, leaving aside the debate that we have already had about what occurred in Tripoli, the fact is that you cannot remove her from that second step, can you, because she brought it about? A. No one is removing her, the question is how much to get paid, that is all. Q. You have airbrushed her from paragraph 51, haven't you? She is not in paragraph 51. A. In where? Q. Look at paragraph 51 of your statement? A. Because I believe that my presence did the whole thing, no matter who opened the door, whether it is her or Fouad Alaeddin. Q. You are arrogant enough in paragraph 51 to suggest that it is all you and not her? A. I'm arrogant when I have to be arrogant, you bet.
A. It does not have to be in writing. She knows that I was willing to give her something, but I'm disputing the fact that she is saying that I said $10 million, which I never committed to. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is not an answer to the question. Take your time and listen to the questions, because what I don't want to be doing is finding that you are not answering the questions when you are rushing into the answer rather than being evasive. Can you put the question again, please, Mr Freedman? MR FREEDMAN: Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is very important that you listen very carefully. MR FREEDMAN: So you would not alter anything, despite this debate, in paragraph 51, to acknowledge that, at the crucial stage, Mrs Sharab was centrally involved? A. I will not alter, no. Q. Going back, if we may, to the taking of the aeroplane, do you accept the evidence that is given by Mrs Sharab that Colonel Gaddafi was very upset about the fact that the aircraft had been taken to Riyadh? A. Yes, Gaddafi was not happy that I took the plane back to Riyadh. I know this for a fact from her and from others, yes. Q. We have seen that there has been correspondence about
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. I'm sure you are. A. Yes, I have to be arrogant when I have to be arrogant, yes. Q. But that is arrogant, isn't it, in paragraph 51? A. I'm realistic, not arrogant here. Q. It is arrogant in 51 to ignore her part that she played in making this possible? A. This is your point of view. I respect, but I don't accept it. Q. It is not just that she had a part to make it possible, it was in fact that you turned to her at the end of August so that she would make it possible and she did? A. No one is denying that. The question is how much she deserves. That is the bottom line. Q. We will come on to how much she deserves for it in just a moment. A. Which is my discretion. Q. Would you say that paragraph 51 should be rewritten so that you give credit where credit is due to the involvement of Mrs Sharab? A. I stand by 51 as it is. Q. So you would not alter anything, despite this debate, in paragraph 51, to acknowledge that at the crucial stage Mrs Sharab was centrally involved?
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the matter should go to arbitration; do you remember that? A. Yes. Q. We have seen your correspondence about the losses that you were saying were entailed. What Mrs Sharab was saying in her evidence was that she was finding a way with Colonel Gaddafi of bringing about a resolution of this matter at precisely the moment when you took the aircraft to Riyadh; do you remember hearing her say that? A. Yes, but I don't agree with it. Q. She had a better feel for what was going on in Libya than you did, didn't she? A. For sure, she knows the details of Libya pretty well definitely, yes. I will accept that, yes. Q. You are sufficiently modest, are you, to acknowledge that, when she was expressing her disappointment about the way in which you had acted, there may have been something sensible behind what she was saying? A. No, but remember I took possession of the plane many months after the contract was signed and the money was not paid. As I told you in the previous session that this thing went beyond Mrs Daad Sharab. There was a clash created now between Muammar Gaddafi and his cousin. This thing became very much politicised at the
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high level in Libya, whereby Muammar's cousin tried really to spread rumours that he overpaid a lot for the plane whereby to force him not to pay more and to cancel the deal. So the matter was elevated to a very much higher political level and internal bickering at the upper echelon of the political leadership in Libya. Q. Part of that was that it had been found out that in fact the aircraft had been acquired by you for a sum of much less than $95 million, and one of the figures bandied around was $47 million; is that right? A. I didn't get that. Q. You are saying there were rumours going around in Libya that you had actually acquired this aircraft for a relatively small sum compared to the amount that you were getting from the Libyans; isn't that right? A. Yes, the cousin of Gaddafi, Al-Dam, tried to spread rumours that this plane is worthless, he has even overpaid for it. Yes, he tried to do anything he can to destroy the deal. That is why this project was delayed for many months and that is why she couldn't do anything during that process, whereby I had to take repossession of the plane eventually. Q. In the long correspondence that took place between March 2004 and August 2005 was a letter from you to Colonel Gaddafi which I don't think we have looked at
This is the Boeing 747 which you had already acquired in 2002, wasn't it? A. Yes. Q. This was all part of your technique to try and get lots of money out of the Libyans; correct? A. That is the process, yes. Q. And it is as untrue as the claim for $8 million that we saw this morning? A. As we discussed in the morning, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is untrue? A. Yes, as we discussed this morning, your Lordship, yes. MR FREEDMAN: And it is untrue not in the sense that it was a mistake, it was a deliberate tactic knowing what the true situation was. A. As we discussed this morning in the session, yes. Q. You agree with what I just said? A. As we discussed this morning, it is a continuation of that. Q. Just so it is clear on the transcript, you agree with what I have just said? A. Exactly as I said in the morning, this is a continuation of it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You remember yesterday -I remember it quite well -- that you told me that you never tell lies in statements or in any documents. This
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 yet. If you go bundle B2 at tab 85, page 293. A. 293, yes. Q. What happens here is that you are writing in connection with a letter that had been sent to Colonel Gaddafi about five months earlier which coincided with the passing away of Mrs Sharab's brother. You then go on to talk about what is going on and talk about the losses that you have suffered. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. At page 294, we had already seen a different calculation this morning about the damages suffered as a result of the B747 project? A. Yes, yes. Q. Here the last item in that list is the damages suffered in B747 project are now $22.7 million. Do you see that? A. I see it. Q. There is two stars, so there is a note to that, and it is said: "We had to pay $5 million more for the hull as we had to buy in a hurry. The time constraints of doing in 15 to 18 months what we had planned to do in 30 to 36 caused a $3.7-million increase in manpower cost. We were forced to take a completion centre which was $10 million more, due to our chosen ones not being able to meet the severely reduced time constraints."
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is untrue, isn't it? This is a lie, you know it is a lie. A. This was prepared by Saleh and Fouad and I told them you have to do whatever you need, as I told your Lordship this morning. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is impossible for you seriously to believe that the delay in the completion of the acquisition of the money for the Airbus had any delay in respect of your 747 that you were acquiring. I say that simply because you had $70 million from Colonel Gaddafi, didn't you; you had 70? A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You were only paying out 45 to get this jet, weren't you? A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So you had enough money to cover the sale plus another 25 million. A. But if I had the intention of keeping the 70 and keeping the plane without finalising it, this could have happened, but I really wanted to finish it, your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are not understanding me, I'm afraid. You cannot blame the failure to get the $50 million balance as having an impact on your acquisition of the
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747, because you already had from the President more money, by $25 million, than it was going to cost you to buy it, because the purchase price was only 45 million, and you had 70. So you are 25 million to the good even without the 50 million.
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definitely I don't like it, and it is not the normal thing I do on a daily basis. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Where is the evidence to show that you paid an extra $5 million for the hull? A. There is not. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No. It didn't happen, did it, and you knew that? A. The whole thing didn't happen. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The whole thing is a fake. A. The whole thing is a fake because I'm dealing with a fake company. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What I want you to do, Your Highness, is to be straight with me. I want you to tell me what is the genuine position now. The reason I want you to do that is because if you maintain a stance that I view as completely untenable it might harm aspects of your case. Do you understand? A. Your Lordship, you interpreted it extremely well, that is why I didn't interrupt you. You interpreted it the way I would like, I almost said it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: All right. We know where we are going. MR FREEDMAN: Mrs Sharab said in her evidence that what happened was that when you misled the Libyans by taking the aircraft back to Riyadh you damaged everything in
A. If you wash them out, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is the situation. A. Yes, as we discussed in the morning, this confirms it this is basically a continuation of what we discussed in the morning, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What you are saying in this letter is untrue and you must have known it was untrue. A. I knew that Saleh El Ghoul and Fouad used many techniques with them exactly like the techniques they used in with us to get this thing done, and I know that many of the things they had done were not very correct, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You knew what they were saying was not correct? A. They had to use techniques with them to reach the conclusion. to do to deal with Colonel Gaddafi, because I imagine it must have been a tortuous process, but I want to come back to your statement that you made to me yesterday
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm not commenting on what you have 22
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that you don't lie even in documents. This is not true, is it? This is an instance where you have acknowledged that a document that has been put, signed by you, which you know is untrue, isn't it? A. Your Lordship, you have to look at this is a unique situation, we are just confronting a very unstable person, who really even Daad, being his girlfriend, also he threw in prison. So this guy is very controversial and it took place and it is controversial and it is not right and it is not our norm. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand all of that. I would be perfectly satisfied if you had said "Well, I'm afraid this is the only way you can deal with the likes of Colonel Gaddafi. Sometimes you have to lie to get your result", I have no problem about that. What I have a problem with is when you told me yesterday, and you said you never lie. What this evidence shows is that you sometimes are willing to lie because you believe that the lie will get you an advantage. A. Yes, but you have to understand, your Lordship, that this thing was not prepared by me. These are very much technical details. These were prepared by Fouad Alaeddin and Saleh El Ghoul and, yes, I do acknowledge that this is a unique situation and this is not the norm in my operation. And I don't like it
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relation to the dealings that she was trying to procure with them? A. Yes. You know, you remember that I took the plane after many months of not implementing the full contract. I didn't take the plane within days or weeks after the contract was signed. So it took many months for the main payment not to take place, until I had to -- this was my last resort, as you say. So to be honest with you she did her best to try finish with them. But as I told you this was politicised at a very high level of the political arena in Libya. Q. But you remained with her, didn't you, with her trying to help you? A. I was never against her. We were always close friends. Even when Gaddafi imprisoned her I was the first one to support and get her out of Libya with any means that I can. I'm not against her. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And she appreciated that, she said so in evidence. A. We are not against her. We are good friends. The dispute, the whole thing, the centre of the whole thing is my discretion or $10 million. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The whole thing is a tragedy. I don't know what is going on in this litigation. A. It is a tragedy.
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MR FREEDMAN: Let's now go to the period after the settlement agreement of September 2005. I want to ask you to pick up your witness statement again and look behind tab 3. It is your witness statement and I want you to go to page 52, please. A. 52. Q. Yes. What has happened has been we have had the settlement agreement; we have had the telephone conversation when you expressed your gratitude; and we then have your dealing with various conversations. At paragraph 47 you say this: "At some point after the execution of the settlement agreement my relationship with the claimant began to deteriorate. I was gaining the impression that her true allegiances in connection with the transaction were increasingly to the Libyans rather than to me. I also recall that Mrs Sharab refused to release a copy of the signed settlement agreement to me in an attempt to secure a commission payment from me which confirmed in my mind that she was not acting in my interests. I was not happy with this and was ultimately able to obtain a copy directly from the Libyans to whom I had direct access." Then you referred to her letter to you where she stated that she had been officially entrusted by the
A. Not really when I get a signed letter from Daad saying "I'm not going to be on your side, I'm going to be on the side of the Libyans", this says many things. So you can interpret this in a very clear manner. Q. Are you familiar with the expression that you have to put up or shut up? A. I heard of it, yes. Q. What it means is if you have an allegation to put, particularly an allegation as serious as that, then you have to make your allegation not just insinuate it? A. I don't shut up if there is circumstantial evidence. When there is a written letter signed by Daad saying "I'm switching sides to the Libyans", that says it all, signed, sealed and stamped. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is what made you suspicious but, as Mr Freedman, says you have to put up or shut up. What you had was a suspicion. But now we are in court and I don't remember it being suggested to her that she took money, and you have no evidence. A. I have no evidence no. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Now is the time to be honourable and acknowledge that your suspicions were not justified and you withdraw the allegation, isn't it? A. How can I be sure what she wrote me a letter,
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 highest Libyan authorities to discuss the ongoing dispute over the Airbus with you: "I found this a very surprising statement as she was supposed to be taking instructions from me and acting in my best interests. Moreover, she wrote in that letter that in a personal capacity she would stand by the Libyan side. The claimant, in my eyes, was becoming overwhelmingly concerned with her own position and relationship with the Libyans. I was irritated by her attitude and her apparent attempt to play both sides against each other. To this day I do not know if the claimant was due to receive or has received compensation or payment from the Libyans for her involvement in the purchase of the Airbus or in respect of her other dealings with me. This was the reason that I didn't respond to the claimant's attempts to contact me after the payment of the final $50 million and the transfer of the Airbus to Colonel Gaddafi in August 2006." Now, what I want to suggest to you, first of all, is that you have no evidence at all of any money or consideration or compensation or payment received by the claimant from the Libyans, do you? A. I don't, no. I only assume that but I have no evidence, no. Q. And it is a disgraceful insinuation on your part, isn't
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your Lordship, saying "I'm switching sides; I'm moving now to the Libyan side", and she was supposed to represent me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You still believe now she has had another payment for this? A. I have doubts. I cannot confirm that for sure, but she wrote me a letter, that is what triggered the whole statement. She wrote me a letter saying "I'm switching sides; I'm moving to the Libyan side, I am no more on your side now". What more do I need? I had a letter from her signed. MR FREEDMAN: Let's look at that letter. That is bundle D2, tab 130. A. Which page? Q. Tab 130. Halfway down the page, this is a letter of 20 April 2006, she says: "The silence of LAFICO throughout the period from September until now is not a silence regarding their right as they are asking for it continuously. However, the silence was due to pressure from me in my attempts to guide them and my presentation of documentary evidence to them. If not for this they would have taken their legal measures from the beginning. You insist on keeping the money in the aircraft and your refusal to settle it is not serious at
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all since they had set aside a given period during which if the matter of the aircraft had not been dealt with they would resort to legal means without hesitation to seek their right. I also inform Your Highness that there are high level instructions not to deal with you in all areas, whether it be the hotel project or anything else, for as long as the matter of the aircraft is hanging. You can confirm the truth of what is mentioned above by contacting the parties concerned. I'm officially entrusted by the highest Libyan authorities to discuss this matter and conclude it, as they consider that they don't have the right to keep everything and also refuse to settle." What she was complaining about was about the fact that in the many months that had passed since the time of the settlement agreement you were not doing your bit to complete the sale? A. She was planting a seed here of her being in the centre of the action, because all these months neither I nor her, nor Fouad, were able to get anywhere with the Libyans. When I took possession of the plane I took it after all, all options were closed to me. Q. You are talking about April 2004. This letter is talking about the period between September 2005 and April 2006.
A. I just wanted to get my money and get it over with. Q. You can understand that if that were the case that you were prevaracating and holding on to the aircraft after everything that had occurred in relation to the settlement agreement, this was indeed going to affect her name and reputation with the Libyans? A. But as I told you, this thing went beyond her. This thing became politicised in Libya and everybody was talking about it. Even Fouad used to tell me that even people in the streets were talking about this deal and Al-Dam was trying to damage it by saying that I bought the plane for a very cheap price and that they overpaid for it. Q. In the sentence over the page that you don't like, she is complaining about her attempts to finalise this matter with you have only yielded failure and disinterest? A. My objective, your Lordship, is to get back my money and give him back the plane. That is all I wanted. Q. She is saying to you if you are going to continue like that she will say that the Libyans are correct; what is wrong with that? A. She also said "I inform you that I will stand by the Libyan side because my attempts to advance matters with you are a complete failure."
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Concentrate on that latter period. She is saying that what you are not doing during this period is doing your bit to make sure that the sale will be completed and the money will be paid. A. That was the period when the plane was in Riyadh. Is that correct? Q. This is the period between the settlement agreement and the time of this letter, a period of about seven months? A. So the plane was still in Riyadh? Is that correct or ...? Q. One of the things she had said was that in fact you were renting out that plane during that period, is that right? A. I just told his Lordship that the plane was grounded in Riyadh. I never used it nor leased it. That is a very inaccurate statement. That is a lie. That is what you call a lie. Q. It was not rented out during the period after the settlement agreement? A. Let her prove that please. Q. She was writing this letter because her view was that you were keeping hold of the aircraft and not taking steps, through the production of the documents and the letter of credit, to make sure that this deal was now completed?
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Q. She is imploring you to try and bring this matter to an end instead of prevaricating? A. The last man that wants to procrastinate and delay as long as possible is me. I want to get over this and get it done. Q. Did you respond saying it is completely wrong, your intention is not to procrastinate? A. This letter it was not worth responding to because when someone switches side it doesn't deserve a reply. Q. She is not switching sides. She is trying to encourage you to bring this deal to an end knowing in particular that not only is money standing to be paid to you, but there is money standing to be paid to her by you? A. My interpretation of that "I will stand by the Libyan side" means that "I'm stabbing you in the back and I'm switching sides". That is my interpretation. Q. Look at the next paragraph before we take that sentence out of context: "Therefore I request Your Highness to give great attention to this matter and to make an appointment soon to meet with me to resolve it in the knowledge that after this I will never ever mediate in any subject linking you and LAFICO or the Tripoli people's council. I place the matter before Your Highness to do as you see fit."
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What she wants to do is to bring it all to a satisfactory conclusion, doesn't she? A. She was trying to intrude here at a stage when this thing became politically explosive in Libya and it became, you know -- I was getting messages from Libya, from the head of intelligence, from the chief of staff of Gaddafi and from the head of the airlines called Afriqiyah Airlines, that used to belong to Libya. I was getting conflicting messages from them, as I said a minute ago, whereby they either pay me $70 million and renege on the rest or to cancel the deal. All the messages I was getting from Libya were negative at that time. That is why I felt this thing went beyond her and became overly politicised in Libya. Q. You have cut her out effectively because now, and in advance of that letter, you are trying to sort the matter out by getting a copy of the settlement agreement and trying to cut her out of the picture; isn't that right? A. I never stabbed her in the back. I always said I was consistent in that I would pay her commission for her work but I never accepted to pay $10 million. I never stabbed her in the back. I was willing to pay her the fee that I believed was right. Q. You did get a copy settlement agreement and bring the
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The delay between September 2005 and September 2006 was because you were waiting for the money? A. Yes, I don't know when the money was transferred. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: September 2006. A. We released the plane when we got the money. And the record shows this. I don't recall exactly when. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: September 2006 it was, wasn't it? A. The money I received in September, is that correct? And when the plane was released? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: When the money was released. A. So, good, I'm consistent with that. I kept the plane because the money was not transferred. The moment I got the money -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The problems that are arising, therefore, are nothing to do with the claimant holding on to the deed of settlement because you have a copy and you had it since March. The problems again are surely the internal shenanigans that are going on in Libya, all the counter-fights. That is the problem, isn't it? That is the problem with dealing with the Byzantine Libyans at that stage. A. You mean from the delay of the time of the settlement and the transferring of the money, it was five or six
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 matter to an end through the copy settlement agreement instead of through her; isn't that right? A. Because the Libyan authorities thought that she is going to give me the agreement. Then when I sent my representative there, I think it was Fouad Alaeddin, they were able to get possession of the agreement and everything was fine. But she was hiding that from me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: She says that you got the copy settlement agreement in March 2006. A. From Libya, sir. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is that correct? A. I don't recall exactly when, but I know that we got it from the Libyans in a direct fashion. I don't recall the exact date. I have to be very -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If it was March 2006 you have the agreement from the Libyans. What she has written in April 2006 doesn't matter. But it takes another five months for the plane to be ready. What is the problem with the plane being ready to be handed over? A. What is the question, please, when I got the agreement? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Why is it taking so long to get the plane handed over because the settlement agreement was signed in September 2005? A. The money was not transferred. The money was not transferred to me. We signed it but the money was not
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MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It was a year. A. At that time it was still pending, the issue. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is nothing to do with her because by March you have bypassed her and got their signed copy of the deed. Notwithstanding that you still don't get the money for another six months. A. Okay. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That shows that your problems are not with her. Your problems are with what is going on with the Libyans, because the Libyans are, let's use a neutral word, unreliable. A. Completely unreliable, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: They don't honour their bargains. Your case is that they didn't honour the original agreement because they withheld the 50 million. Here we are again, you go to Libya and you get a deal that you understood was made between you and the President in April 2005. It is put on paper by September 2005 and still nothing happens. That is the position, isn't it? A. Correct. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is what your problem is. It is easy for me to say this because I'm not in business, but if you deal with people like the Libyans this is what happens. It is not unique in the business
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world. Your very experienced lawyers will tell you
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1 2 a gentlemen's agreement when it turns out that one of 3 them subsequently turns out not to be a gentleman. That 4 regularly happens. That is where your problems are, 5 isn't it, it is the Libyans? 6 A. Yes. 7 MR FREEDMAN: Your defence we have looked at before and we 8 can find that in bundle A behind tab 3. 9 A. Excuse me, A3? 10 Q. Behind tab 3. 11 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Shall we have a short break before 12 we do that then, until 25 past. 13 (3.12 pm) 14 (A short break) 15 (3.25 pm) 16 MR FREEDMAN: You should have in front of you bundle A and 17 we were looking at tab 3 behind bundle A, which is your 18 defence. If you go, please, to page 31. 19 A. 31. 20 Q. Yes. What we see here is that there are two dates on 21 this document. The first date is 10 June 2009, which is 22 about just between the two punch holes, and then the 23 next date is 17 January 2013. Do you see that? 24 A. Yes, yes. 25
stories about where you have what in England is called
particulars of claim. A. 20. Q. Yes, at paragraph 76 it says: "In September 2006 what happened was that the defendant transferred ownership of the Airbus to Libya and LAFICO transferred $50 million to the defendant. "She then became entitled to receive her commission of $10 million if not before. "Since September 2006 the claimant has made numerous attempts to obtain payment of her commission from the defendant telephoning on about 14 occasions, sending faxes. "The defendant wouldn't speak to the claimant in response to the telephone calls. "The defendant failed to pay the $10 million therefore either the $10 million or a reasonable sum are due. That is paragraphs 77 up to 82 of that pleading. If we then go to your response in the defence and if we take it from page 29 -A. Where is that? Q. Page 29. You in response to paragraph 77, that she became entitled to receive the commission of $10 million, you deny that. A. Which paragraph, please?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. So the first date is when the original defence was served and the second date is when there is an amended defence, yes? A. Yes. Q. There were some amendments to the defence. That defence that you prepared or that was prepared for you and which was approved by you was in response to the particulars of claim which was the claim which we have seen of Mrs Sharab. What it contains is your answer to the claim. In that defence it does mention about something of your case, about the payment being at your discretion. But what I suggest to you is that it says nothing at any stage that the reason why you decided not to pay was because Mrs Sharab had gone to the side of the Libyans. Do you accept that I have summed it up accurately? A. Can I -- I have to read it to refresh my memory. Q. Please do. A. Which page? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He is going to have to read it all, I think, isn't he? You might not. A. Refer me to where it is. MR FREEDMAN: Let's come to how you deal with the matters. If we go to the particulars of claim, first of all, and if we go to the section at page 20 of the
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Paragraph 51, page 29, the bottom of the page. A. Yes. Q. Then we go over the page and in respect of the faxes that are sent; it is admitted that those faxes were sent. It is also averred that the claimant caused solicitors to write a letter and threatening proceedings: "... notwithstanding that the claimant had no such entitlement and that the arrangement between her and the defendant had always been as pleaded at subparagraph 12(c) above" which is your case that it was dependent upon an exercise of discretion. (c): "It is further averred that the defendant's solicitors responded to the claimant's solicitors' letter on 19 October 2006 rejecting the claimant's claim. It is denied that the claimant's faxes to the defendant or any telephone calls to his office, which are not admitted, called for any further response, save that it is admitted that the defendant has not paid the sum alleged or any sums alleged to the claimant in respect of the matters in issue." Paragraph 80 is denied. Paragraph 80 is the failure to pay the $10 million. Then paragraph 81 is denied. That is all about the
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reasonable sum. And 82 is denied, and the claim is denied. What I'm suggesting to you is that your defence, and your amended defence, does not say at any stage the reason why no payment was made to Mrs Sharab was because she went on to the side of the Libyans?
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because he was just saying, "This deal will not happen". And if I remember well I did meet him and talk to him about the subject and he just wanted to take his commission. So from my own point of view, since I had discussions with this whole thing and there is no signed contract between me and her, I have the right to tell her "You have nothing", because this thing went beyond her, beyond her control, it was overpoliticised, whereby this thing went beyond her ability to fulfil my requirements. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That does not contain in your statement then any suggestion that she stabbed you in the back. What you are saying is because of the ramifications within the Libyan political elite, the tensions between the President and his cousin, and so on, she could not overcome those and procure the final deal. That is what you are saying, isn't it? A. What I say is that -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: And in effect you had to go and do it; that is what your witness statement says? A. What I say, your Lordship, is that this thing was at her level. But when this thing went beyond her level it became out of control and I had to take major decisions such as getting the plane back to Riyadh and such as
A. Oh, going on the side of the Libyans is one item on the agenda; it is not the whole story. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is not any story. You don't give a reason as to why you don't give her anything. Your defence is completely silent. You simply say she is not entitled. A. Your Lordship, I can claim that since it is my discretion, because my position is my discretion, my position is that it is my discretion. So my discretion said zero. That is how I believe this whole thing is about. person, or at least I assume that you are a reasonable person, and nobody is going to do business with you and rely on your discretion if it simply becomes capricious and enables you to get people to work and then say "Because it is my discretion I'm not going to give you anything". I understood from your evidence, starting yesterday
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Your Highness, you are a reasonable 18
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and going on today, and reinforced today, was the reason she obtained no commission is because she stabbed you in the back. Is that what your case is? A. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If that is the straw that broke the camel's back there must have been some other things in addition to the final straw that broke the camel's back. What Mr Freedman is complaining about is that your defence does not give any of the reasons which led you to conclude, despite the fact that you have acknowledged that she has done a large amount of work, at the end of the day she was not entitled to any commission; your defence doesn't say so, does it, it doesn't give reasons? A. Let me defend my defence. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I would rather you answered the question. A. I will, your Lordship. As you know, Daad tried to do her best to finalise this project but when this became overpoliticised by having clashed internally in the hierarchy of the Libyan authorities, I believe that this thing went beyond her. This thing became overpoliticised so her role at that time diminished substantially whereby she could not face Muammar Gaddafi's cousin and say, "You can do it",
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going to Libya to interact personally with Muammar Gaddafi and finalise it. That is the key issue, the discretion. The translation of "discretion" is that I decide yes or no. This is the beauty of discretion. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If she had done everything you could have said "You are not having anything". I don't understand you to be such an unfair man. A. No, I always acknowledged to your Lordship, even today, that she has done some work there. But the key issue right now is my discretion. That is the key word. And she accepted that. She did not deny that. Even in her letters, your Lordship, she never mentioned an amount. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: So your case is that your discretion, as you call it, entitles you to say to her, even if she had got the entirety of the contract, "I'm not going to pay you anything". Is that what you are telling me exactly? A. No, no. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I have difficulty because I thought you were an honourable man and that you wouldn't take advantage of people like that, is that not correct? A. No. Correct. If she came to me and said, "My agreement with you, Waleed, is at your discretion. Please give me a discretion" and not $10 million, I would have given her something. But to come and say $10 million wrongly
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I don't accept that. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are fighting because you say she is wrong to say 10 million and therefore she is not entitled to anything, is that what you saying? A. Because the whole thing was based on my discretion and I was adamant about that with her and Fouad. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Shall we take stock of what she actually achieved for you. At the start she got you into the showing of two planes to Colonel Gaddafi. She got you the introduction there which led to him picking an aircraft and leaving it behind. She had a role in negotiating the terms of the acquisition. Under that acquisition you actually got $70 million. 50 million was withheld because of things that were going on in Libya and you acknowledged that was beyond her control. You then took a commercial decision that the only way you were going to get any further was to create a lever against the President and the best lever was if you took his toy off him. So you had the money and you had the plane. But because Colonel Gaddafi was such an unpredictable man he didn't react rationally. You would expect a rational person would come and say "Let's talk". Nothing happened for 14 months. So you got her in again September 2005. It is April, isn't it?
reply because that is the way I see you accept what she has done in your evidence, and I'm trying to find out why she doesn't get anything. A. The fundamental issue right now here is based on my discretion, and I give her the number and she says "Thank you" or she asks for $10 million I say "No, we have no agreement on that". If she accepts that it is my discretion and I give her the amount, this would be resolved. But I don't accept the $10 million because there was no agreement whatever from the beginning of $10 million. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Sorry, I want to ask one more question. When you are negotiating with the President of Libya you feel it is appropriate to tell untruths because you have to play hard ball with him and you have to state a high position to achieve a low position. It might well be that you believe she is not entitled to 10 million. That is the matter I have to decide. Okay. But let's suppose it is a negotiating stance and she says "I'm after you for 10 million" and she doesn't believe it. That is no different to what you do. It does not justify you, does it, in not rewarding her for a true entitlement. Merely because she overstates her
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR FREEDMAN: August. The end of August. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: August 2005, and you then at her suggestion went to Libya and you had a meeting with Colonel Gaddafi. As part of that exercise you had a personal discussion with Colonel Gaddafi about which only you can give evidence. There might be a dispute about what was said then. Whether you apologised or not is neither here nor there at this stage in the circumstances. But what came out of it was an agreement in principle between you and the Colonel that in effect he would pay the $50 million and you would give him the aircraft. That was then negotiated in detail with the claimant and Mr Alaeddin who is the nuts and bolts man and led to an agreement being signed in the September. That still didn't work. It still took a year for you to get the money out of the Libyans. Now she has done all of that work. You have accepted that she has done all of that work. Yet in your discretion you believe she is not entitled to one cent. So you are giving her no credit at all for the fact that without her opening the doors twice you would have got nowhere. A. Can I reply to that? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I hope you can. I want you to
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claim does not mean that she is not entitled to something, does it, or is it that you are so offended by it? A. No, I am not offended at all. If I gave her X she would not accept it. If she said "Give me what your discretion is", which is the verbal agreement, arrangement between us, if she accepted that we would not have reached the stage of your Lordship here. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I cannot understand why we are here, I'm afraid. I don't want to know whether there have been any discussions. I will decide the case according to the evidence, as I said yesterday. I'm not put off. I'm known for making hard decisions and I might have to decide that one or other of you is lying, or even both of you are lying. I suspect there is a possibility that I'm going to determine that you are both lying in certain respects. Then I have to try and understand what is left out of the wreckage. But I can't believe that that is in the interests of either of you. Do you not agree? A. I fully agree, my Lord. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Do you really want to go through a trial where there is a possibility that an English court is going to declare that you are a liar? A. I'm willing to go and talk to her even now, this moment.
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MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is your client not willing to talk? MR FREEDMAN: Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You don't have to answer this question, Mr Freedman, but have there been any discussions, sensible ones, as opposed to, "You have no case, pack up your bags and go home". MR FREEDMAN: There certainly have not been any detailed discussions, no. A. I have to correct that. There were discussions last night. MR FREEDMAN: I used my words very sensibly, or very carefully, my Lord. I said there have been no detailed discussions. A. But there has been I think very substantive discussions last night. MR FREEDMAN: I don't think we ought to go any further. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't think you ought to go any further. Yesterday I trotted out my usual line, Death Ride of the Panzers. Today I think we are at the stage of the Battle of Prokhorovka in that battle. I just despair, frankly, that two people who have obviously been friends and business acquaintances and respected each other are driven to a situation where for each of the six days each one is calling the other
entitled to a reasonable sum for her services. To reach that stage I have to determine that she is telling an untruth about 10 million, but I'm also determining that your version of the events is untrue as well. I think if we finish the evidence it is probably better because then His Highness will be freed from the constraints of the witness-box. Do you agree? MR FREEDMAN: I'm grateful, my Lord. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I am sorry to interrupt your flow, Mr Freedman, but I know you are used to me doing that so it doesn't put you off, or put you off too much. MR FREEDMAN: Would be please pick up bundle D2. A. D2. Q. D2 and go to tab 143, please. A. Yes. Q. At 448 is a letter of 19 September 2006. Did you see that? A. Yes, I am there. Q. Mrs Sharab is writing to you and she says in the second paragraph: "With reference to the matter of the Airbus for which I undertook the finalisation of all the measures to implement the active sale and handover, having been personally commissioned to undertake this task by Your Highness about three years ago, Your Highness
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a liar. I would have thought that the parties ought to be able to broker a deal. Is there any possibility of having further discussions or do you want to get the evidence finished? MR FREEDMAN: I think we should certainly finish the evidence with this witness and then review what your Lordship has said, if that makes sense. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Shall we do that? MR PYMONT: Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm not forcing you to deal. I'm expressing my regret that I have to make a decision in this way, but regrets or no, it is my task to make a decision on the evidence if the parties cannot resolve it. A. You know, I think your Lordship yesterday gave a very clear implicit message whereby we have been in touch with her lawyer now with certain ideas, but clearly no conclusion was reached. But I'm willing to meet with her personally today or with her lawyers and my lawyers to see if we can do something and today, if not obviously we will have to defer to your Lordship to decide what is fair and honest, and we respect whatever you decide. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I can only decide what is fair and honest if the case goes to the second claim, that she is
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 liquidated the value of the Letter of Credit entirely ten days ago and received the remaining payment amounting to $50 million, whilst Your Highness received $70 million earlier, making a total of $120 million. Therefore we request Your Highness to fulfil your obligations to us which we agreed on earlier as quickly as possible." We have heard you say that she didn't mention the figure of 10 million, but what she did mention was she said specifically that you had an obligation to her which had previously been agreed on, and it is right to say, isn't it, that you didn't respond to this letter? Is that right? A. From my interpretation of this letter she is saying "You owe me something", and she is almost acknowledging the fact that it is my discretion to give her the amount. Q. She is not, because she is using a word which is the opposite of a discretion; she is saying "We request you to fulfil your obligations"? A. Then what would prevent her putting the figure $10 million? Q. She said that she didn't want it to get to your staff, but we will come to the moment that the $10 million is referred to. But she is making it quite clear that there is an obligation and she would expect you to
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understand what that means. Why didn't you respond saying: "You don't have an obligation; it is just matter of discretion"? A. Because she is circling around the $10 million figure which I never uttered, I never acknowledged and I never accepted. Q. How do you know she is circling around the $10 million figure? A. She knows that and I know that. That is why she didn't mention the number here. Q. Now did you know that she was circling around the $10 million figure? A. That is what she was seeking. Q. The reason why you know that is because you know that you entered into an obligation with her that would end up with you having to pay $10 million? A. If I accepted that I would have paid it and she would have wrote it in this letter and the other letter. Q. You are not answering the question. Why didn't you respond saying there was no obligation; it was just a discretion? A. Because we were completely far away from her position and from my position. Q. How did you know that?
A. No, not to me, but that is what Fouad told me verbally. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Because until you said that I didn't know how you knew she wanted $10 million. A. That is what Fouad told me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Before this letter. A. I did not respond to her. So she used to call Fouad and he used to come to me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: As at 19 September 2006, this is a couple of weeks before you finally get the money, her case is that on a number occasions she said to you, "My fees are 10 million" and you agreed it. But you do not accept that in any conversation she had with you she mentioned the figure of 10 million and you deny that the agreement as made in the Boeing was 10 million. So up until this litigation there is nothing that I have seen where she says, "I want 10 million". Even this letter, which you have rightly pointed out in response and you have raised the question, "If it was 10 million why didn't she say it", but that letter doesn't refer to 10 million. For the first time you are telling Mr Freedman -I think it is the first time, isn't it? MR FREEDMAN: Correct. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: -- that you found out she wanted 10 million from Mr Alaeddin; is that right?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Because she was thinking of $10 million. Q. How did you know that? A. She said that to Fouad many times. She did say that to Fouad. Q. You understood what she meant by "the obligation"? A. He was calling me, Fouad, and telling me that is what she wants. Q. That was on 15 July from the Corinthia Bab Hotel? A. No, that is not true. Fouad used to come to me later on and said she wants the money. I said, okay fine, I will pay her what I agreed in my discretion. He said, "No, she wants 10", and I said "I'm not going to pay her 10". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can you say that a bit slower, please. That is quite an important response. A. Fouad in my meetings said, "She wants her money". I said "I'm willing to pay her based on my discretion". And he said she wants what she believes is her right, $10 million. I said "No, you know and I know," and Fouad accepted my term, that is why I want him to be a witness but obviously he declined last minute, and I said "I will pay her my discretion", and he said "No, she wants $10 million", and I said "No". were they not? Are any of those in your witness statement?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 A. She told Fouad because Fouad was trying to mediate between us and he used to come to me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: When did she do that? A. At a later stage. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You mean after this date? A. Yes, after all these letters were done also. And I never answered her. No, no, no, Fouad told me about the 10 million before this letter was sent to me. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Before the letter? A. Yes. That is why I said no, my agreement with her I pay her my discretion, and I told Fouad "You were present at the meeting". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: He has said "before" and "after" in different answers. MR FREEDMAN: Yes, "before" and "after". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: None of this is in your witness statement, not a jot of it. A. No, but I mean -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You don't tell me in your witness statement how you found out she wanted 10 million. I thought the case as put to her was that the first time she mentioned 10 million was when the solicitors wrote. A. But at the end clearly, when I never accepted $10 million that Fouad told me about, she obviously became desperate and began sending me all these letters.
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I told Fouad "You were in the plane with me when I told her at that time we will discuss nothing but the contact with the Libyans". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Forgive me, but Mr Freedman is surely right, that September 2006 you did not necessarily know that she was after 10 million. You could have written back to this letter, this is Mr Freedman's point, and said "You are quite wrong, I know that you have been asking for 10 million, you are not entitled to 10 million, you are entitled to what I decide in my discretion", that is what you agreed "and I have exercised my discretion and I'm not going to give you anything because (a), (b) and (c)." A. I was not obliged to reply to her, your Lordship, because I told her "I will pay you at my discretion" and there was nothing in writing. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I will tell you what, Your Highness, one of the best tools that judges have when deciding cases is the contemporary documents. It is always interesting to see what people say or don't say before their position is being dovetailed for the litigation. I'm trying to understand why you didn't reply to her and tell her what you believed the position to be. A. Because my idea is that this was based on my discretion
Which page please? 52. Yes. Paragraph 46, the third line: "I recall that after the signing of the settlement agreement she did regularly refer to a commission due to her but this was always a generic reference and never to a specific figure." Why didn't you at that point say that after the settlement agreement there came a point where at least through Mr Alaeddin and before the September letter she was seeking $10 million? A. Because this only came at a later stage when Fouad began mediating between us. Q. But we know if your evidence is correct that you have given in the last 15 minutes that in advance of this letter of 19 September you knew that she was after $10 million? A. And she knew also that the whole thing, from inception, I was very clear with her that no money would be paid until it is based on my discretion. Q. So you knew that she was after $10 million and yet you don't refer in paragraph 46 to the fact that she was seeking $10 million? A. The $10 million came only at a later stage.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and I will give her what I believe is right. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Why not tell her that? A. Because when she was conveying the message to me that "I need $10 million", what I had in my mind, I had a figure in my mind, and if I gave her that figure compared to $10 million I think we are very far apart. I can tell you the figure if you want. It would be very much far apart so it would not be helpful at all. I knew she was going to say "No, we are far apart", so I didn't give it to her. I went back to the idea that it is my discretion, because if I wanted to have a contract with her I could easily have a contract with her binding on me, but because from the beginning I wanted it to be my discretion and only my discretion, that is why I had no contract with her and she accepted that and she worked for that. No one forced her to work with me. It is at my discretion. MR FREEDMAN: Would you look at the small bundle, your witness statement, at paragraph 46 of your witness statement, page 52 of the small bundle. A. Yes. Q. Paragraph 46 is at the top of the page and in the second sentence, the third line, towards the end of the line: "I recall that after the signing of the second agreement ..."
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Q. What later stage? A. At a later stage when Fouad began telling me that she wants $10 million. Q. When was that? A. I don't recall exactly. Q. It is very important, can you try and recall? A. But at a later stage. Q. Later than the letter of 19 September? A. I don't know. I don't tell you something I'm not sure of. Q. Or do you just make it up as you go along? A. I don't make it up. The whole thing from the beginning was based at my discretion. If I want to have a contract with her I would have a contract with her. No one forced her to work with me based on my discretion. She could have said "I don't want to help you" and that is fine. She accepted from the beginning to work with me based on my discretion. Let's be very honest about that. Q. When do you say she communicated through Fouad for the first time there was to be $10 million? A. I don't know exactly when. Fouad used to come to me either weekly or bi-monthly and he used to have with him an agenda and sometimes this issue used to be on the agenda. Clearly Fouad wanted really to try and mediate
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between me and her. I told Fouad that we are very much apart so I'm not going to reply to her at all because my discretion says not $10 million. Q. Let's go to tab 44, please. There is a further letter. Sorry it is a new bundle, bundle D2, tab 144. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can I put the pleadings bundle away? MR FREEDMAN: Yes. A. 144. MR FREEDMAN: Yes. This is a letter of 2 October 2006, so two weeks later, and Mrs Sharab writes to you: "Further to our letter sent to Your Highness dated 19 September regarding obligation towards your agreement with us concerning conclusion of the operation to sell your Airbus, we would like to inform you that we are still waiting for our fees agreed earlier with Your Highness." So she is saying there that she is waiting for agreed fees and she is referring to "an agreement with us concerning the conclusion of the operation to sell the Airbus". You didn't respond to that, did you? A. Sorry, the literal translation in English is not an agreement. In Arabic, which is the formal letter, it
A. Let me answer the question. My position is that this whole thing was based on my discretion, which is that I have the right to give her anything that I believe is right. So there was nothing in agreement and signed at all. So I can give anything I wish is correct. So when this issue came from Fouad, this $10 million, I said we are too much far apart, because I was thinking of 1, 1.5 per cent of the plane fees. So we are far apart. It is not that we were just maybe a million or two million dollars away. We are so much far apart I said I'm going to disregard that and go back on my commitment to give her something based on my discretion, which she didn't respect and accept. MR FREEDMAN: You chose deliberately, did you, not to put that in writing? A. I'm not obliged to do so, I have no agreement with her. Q. You could have said "I have no agreement with you"? A. I'm not obliged to do it; it is my discretion. Q. Is that the same reason that you dodged 14 telephone calls from her? A. It is my discretion. Q. Were you aware there were 14 telephone calls from her? A. I don't count the calls.
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Q. Were you aware there were a large number of calls from her? A. She called but I didn't answer because it was my discretion. She was asking me for fees and the fees are based on my discretion. Q. If you go tab 145 -- this is a document which the court has already seen -- tab 145. A. Yes. Q. This was the document which said that it had been agreed in the summer of 2002 that there should be a payment of $10 million in respect of the sale of the Airbus. It was sought that that $10 million should be paid and your response is at tab 146. I want to go through that with you. It is your lawyers, Hogan & Hartson, and they write as follows: "We have reviewed a copy of your letter dated 17 October 2006 addressed to His Royal Highness Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal regarding the above referenced matter and we have been asked to respond as his legal counsel. "We understand that his Royal Highness, Prince Alwaleed, did not enter into the arrangement alleged in your letter. We also understand that your client played no part in the ultimate sale of the aircraft in question and there is no basis for any sum to be due to her. Please be advised ..."
1 agreement at all. That translation is not right. 2 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We have not got our translator here 3 today, have we? Is that because you believe that the 4 word says "understanding"? 5 A. Yes, because -6 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Let's cross out "agreement" and put 7 "understanding". I don't think it makes any difference 8 really. 9 A. Because it says ... (reading in Arabic) ... "I'm still 10 awaiting my fees that were" -- she does say "agreed", 11 yes. 12 MR FREEDMAN: It does say "agreed". So we can rewind by 20 13 seconds. Let me just ask the question. She is saying 14 that there were fees that were agreed. Why didn't you 15 respond and say there were no fees that were agreed? 16 A. Okay, another question, why didn't she put $10 million 17 here. 18 Q. It is traditional in these courts to answer a question 19 with an answer. 20 A. All right, I will answer, because my position was this 21 thing was based -22 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Remember your counsel had an 23 opportunity to put that to her and I think he did put to 24 her the first time in correspondence she mentioned the 25
says "I'm waiting to pay my fees." It doesn't say an
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 debt and doesn't give any reason for not paying the debt? A. A debt without a document, without signing?
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Now what your answer is, is that you did not enter into the arrangement alleged in the letter. Why didn't you say what arrangement you did enter into with her? A. My interpretation of the word "discretion" it means everything is in my hand; nothing in her hand. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: But you didn't tell her. A. Because we are so much far apart, your Lordship, so I was not under any -- my impression of this whole thing is that I was not under an obligation to reply to her, because she did not respect the fact that it was based on my discretion, and everything was verbal, and I told her "Yes, I'm willing to pay something, but it is my
Q. A person who does everything he can to avoid the case coming to the jurisdiction of this court without identifying what his defence is. A. Sorry, the meeting in London was not authorised at all, that is why I believe there is no jurisdiction in London, with all respect to London, by the way, and to his Lordship, and I'm honoured to be in your court by the way. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Carry on. Flattery gets you an awfully long way. A. I am happy to be here. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I don't believe you are happy to be here, for a moment. I can't believe anybody would be happy to go into the witness-box. A. No, to defend my right, I am happy. I am happy, your Lordship. I want to defend myself. MR FREEDMAN: Why do you not identify what was the arrangement that you entered into? A. Because I believe I'm not obliged to. When I say "my discretion", it means my discretion, and I have all the right to do whatever I want on this subject. Q. The third of these letters that didn't identify the
15 discretion". MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You don't know that, because you 16
never had a direct discussion with her, and when she sets out her version in her solicitor's letter, your solicitors don't write back -- and I'm not criticising the solicitors, but your solicitors don't write back and say: "You have it entirely wrong. I never agreed 10 million. The arrangement was that you agreed to do all of this work and then I can exercise my discretion at the end and decide what commission you are entitled
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commission is to be found at tab 147. A. Yes. Q. In that letter, 12 December, Mrs Sharab writes to you: "Further to our earlier letters of 19 September and 2 October, and our continuous requests to you to receive our rightful due, we would like to inform you that until today's date no sum has reached us from Your Highness relating to our earlier agreement with you on the subject of the sale, knowing that Your Highness obtained the full price of the aircraft and the deal was in fact completed and you received the full amount." Here was another letter and again no response? A. The same answer, the same reply. Q. You criticise her not having identified the $10 million. Of course, this letter is after the solicitor's letter when the $10 million has been identified in writing, correct? A. If the date says yes, yes. Q. So it does make sense, doesn't it, that she was not wanting to embarrass you in relation to your staff by identifying the precise sum and it suffices for her in that letter, just as in the earlier letters, to refer to the fact that you owed her some money? A. Her objective is to create a de facto situation whereby $10 million is correct. My position, and my honest
1 2 That is your case today. Why not tell her that 3 then? Because that was your position. Because by the 4 time this letter is sent, you have had the 120 million. 5 It had come in three weeks earlier. Why not tell her 6 why you believe she is not entitled to anything? 7 A. Because clearly she became more confrontational and this 8 was elevated to a solicitors' level, so clearly she was 9 beginning talking now in legal terms and my position was 10 that she stabbed me in the back, she switched to the 11 Libyan side, so really I was very furious with her. 12 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Why not tell her, she stabbed you 13 in the back and that is why she is not getting anything? 14 A. My position is that I'm not obliged to tell her, 15 your Lordship, because my commitment to her was verbal 16 and was based on my discretion completely. She had the 17 right to say "No, sign agreement with me or I am not 18 going to help you". I did not force her to work with me 19 based on my discretion, I did not do it. 20 MR FREEDMAN: You see, people who don't respond and say what 21 their answer is to the claim might be characterised as 22 a debt dodger; do you understand? 23 A. Your interpretation, yes, I understand. 24 Q. A debt dodger might be somebody who is told to pay the 25
has happened, that you shouldn't receive anything."
to, and I have decided, having regard to everything that
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position, is that I said I would pay her commission, but based on my discretion. That's why there was no agreement, because it was based on my discretion. Q. It could be said that the fact that you have paid her nothing at all, despite all of the services that she has provided is the most eloquent testimony that this discretion point is invented? A. This is your own point of view. I respect but don't accept. Q. If there was a discretion, you would be bound to exercise that discretion by paying her for the services that she had provided you with? A. In the Arab world, stabbing in the back is very important and, really, it ruins any arrangement and any discreet -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is so important that you never once tell her, Your Highness, that she is not getting anything because she stabbed you in the back. You don't say it in the letters in response or in your defence and you don't say it in your witness statements. The first time she hears that the reason you are not paying is because she stabbed you in the back is when you are giving evidence in response to Mr Freedman's questions. I think that is the position. A. Correct. But your Lordship --
I would give her nothing. That is my interpretation of "discretion", and that is why there was no binding agreement between me and her. And no one forced her, your Lordship, to continue working for me on that discretion. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: But you never told her that. Even when she escalated to lawyers, your lawyers never told her that either. You never once set out your case until the litigation. A. I mean, she knew, and she knows, and Fouad knows, that everything was based on my discretion. That is my position. MR FREEDMAN: Can I just understand this about your discretion? Is this discretion a discretion which is to be exercised reasonably or is it like the discretion of an absolute ruler that depends entirely upon his whim? A. I'm not ruler, I'm a businessman. Q. Is it a discretion that is to be exercised reasonably -A. Reasonably. Q. -- or is it a discretion which is to be exercised like an absolute ruler? A. Discretion is discretion, and she accepted it. And I didn't force her to accept the discretion. Q. It is to be exercised reasonably, is it? A. Yes, but she accepted that she works for me under my
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Do you understand? A. I understand. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: What you are now telling me is the most important point, from your point of view, as to why she shouldn't get any money is the thing that you reveal last in these six years of litigation. I find that surprising, I have to say, because I find it surprising that the most important one is the one that is not at the front of all your correspondence, your witness statement, your defence or anything. At some stage, you believed, because she stabbed you in the back, she shouldn't have anything, but you had a number of opportunities to tell her that and you never did. A. Because -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That might be because you have omitted it, but there is a limit to the number of times you can omit it. It might be that that is the way that things happened and there are errors, or it might be that you are making it up now. A. I was getting communications from her, I was getting letters from her, for sure, and I didn't reply because I always believed -- and my interpretation of the word "discretion", it means that I give her the fee that I believe is right and, if I didn't believe so,
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discretion. I was willing to give her something, but when this issue of 10 was floated around, I just put this on hold. Q. Do you say your position is reasonable? A. 1 or 1.5 per cent is more than reasonable. Q. No, paying her nothing? A. When she came with 10, I went to zero. Q. I want to ask you about -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: She plays hard ball, you play hard ball? A. Yes, this is the unfortunate thing. You are right. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I didn't get a clear answer to Mr Freedman's question, because I don't think you clearly understood it. When it comes to the discretion, that discretion that you exercised, does it have to be reasonable? That is to say -A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: -- you can only come to a decision based on factors which a court would look at and would consider reasonable? A. Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Let's take an example, which might be unreasonable. And I say it not on the basis that there is any evidence, but a good example I would have thought is, let's say you said "Marry me". Now, for the
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press, I'm not saying that she said that, you said that, or anything, but let's suppose that she said no and let's suppose, because she rebuffed you, you decided that she wasn't going to obtain any money. That, a court would agree was unreasonable and you couldn't do it. The other possibility that Mr Freedman put was when he said it was like a ruler. What he means is that you have an entire discretion, and that, whatever the value of her work, you can decide whether you are going to pay her and, if so, how much. Now, the two are not the same. Because in the first one, if you assess it on the basis of rules that are on decisions that are unreasonable, the court can review that and substitute a reasonable price. The second one, the cannot court review it because it is entirely up to you. Now, which was your discretion, the one that the court could review if you were unreasonable or one which was your absolute right to decide what she gets? A. I can reply, your Lordship to this question with something that happened last night. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: No, not if it is discussions, it is not a good idea. A. No, we took your implicit --
A. Let me see. I think this is -- no, this could be on the leased plane maybe. It is not the Boeing. I'm not sure. Let me double-check. This could be the Boeing, yes. Q. It could be the Boeing, couldn't it? A. Yes, it could be the Boeing, the old Boeing, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can I look at the photograph? The one I have in 40 has you clearly on a boat, because it has water behind it -- sorry, a ship. Unless the Boeing has ditched ... A. This one. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That one. That is behind my 44, actually. A. This is Daad and I, yes. It could be 747, it could be, but it looks different, yes. That is a private plane, for sure. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The one you hired? A. I'm not sure, it could be my plane but that for sure is a private plane, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I thought the leather in your plane was brown. I have seen pictures of the Libyans after
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they liberated -A. I'm not sure, frankly speaking, because it is a private plane, yes, but I don't think it is my plane, but a leased plane. MR FREEDMAN: It is right to say, isn't it, that this picture was in happier times between the two of you? A. We were friends for sure, we were good friends, yes. Q. One of the things that you hoped through your friendship, and genuinely hoped, was that she would open doors for you? A. Open doors where? Q. Business doors; Libya, for example? A. The only example is Libya, because the doors are very much open to me in 140 countries. Q. In your friendship, you saw her many times, didn't you? A. No, not many times, I saw her a few times, not many times, maybe 5, 6, 7, 8 or 10 times. Q. You admired her qualities, didn't you? A. Not much. Q. Not much? A. No, what qualities do you mean? Q. Not much? A. What do you mean, "qualities"? You are trying to personalise the matter? Q. You admired her ability?
1 2 like me, it means I'm out of the case and you would have 3 to start again before another judge. I'm not allowed to 4 hear discussions that go on, the reason being that it is 5 not fair to the parties -6 A. Fine. 7 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: -- that stances that are taken 8 outside the judge get down to the judge. It wouldn't 9 actually make any difference to me, but ... 10 A. My reply is reasonable. 11 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Reasonable, right. 12 MR FREEDMAN: Would you look at bundle D1? 13 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will have a break in 15 minutes. 14 MR FREEDMAN: I would like you to look behind tab 40 of D1: 15 is that a picture of you and Mrs Sharab on -16 A. Excuse me, which page, please? 17 Q. Tab 40. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Is that a picture of you and Mrs Sharab on the yacht in 20 Cannes? 21 A. Yes, that is Daad and Fouad, yes. 22 Q. Daad and Fouad, is it? 23 A. Yes, Fouad Alaeddin and Daad in Cannes. 24 Q. Who is there at tab 44? 25
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If you do that, however much you
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A. You have to explain what you mean by "ability". Q. The reason why you had such extensive dealings from 1999 onwards with her in relation to Libya was because you admired her ability to get things done? A. It is not a matter of admiring her ability, I wanted to get business done. Q. You admired her as a person, didn't you? A. She was a friend. Q. In some passing conversations, you made a suggestion, whether it was serious or not, that she should be a wife to you? A. You know, your Lordship, this particular statement, at best, it is a joke and, at worst, it is a lie, because I'm married to a very gorgeous lady in Saudi Arabia and -Q. Since 2009. A. -- let me continue please -- I have a son and daughter and four lovely grandchildren, and I'm not about to destruct that at all, so this really is a completely false statement. Q. But you have had a -- you have been married since 2009; isn't that right? A. No, it is wrong. Q. When did you get married to your current wife? A. 2002.
it says that: "The list of documents has been signed by Miss" -can you pronounce that for me? A. Nada Al-Sugair. Q. "... Nada Al-Sugair, the executive director of the finance and administration department of our client's private office, who was responsible for conducting the search." MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: F1, 190? MR FREEDMAN: 190. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The Hogan Lovells' letter dated 19 October? MR FREEDMAN: Yes, and it is the second paragraph that I have just read out. Then if we go from there to 190.2 you can see that there is a signature of Nada Al-Sugair. A. Yes. Q. It is a signature to a list of documents and a disclosure statement that starts at 190.1; correct? A. Yes. Q. Then what happened was that, at the request of the claimant, there was a further disclosure statement that was signed, this time by yourself. If you would go further in this bundle, almost towards the end, to 481.1. A. Page 481?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. 2002? 1 2 A. 2002, yes. Sorry, 2003, 2003, yes. Q. But she is your fourth wife; is that right? 3 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Is that the correct date? My wife 4 never remembers our date. It is because it is six days 5 after her birthday. 6 7 A. I think it is 2003, yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I would hope you don't need to be 8 prompted from somebody else. 9 MR FREEDMAN: What is your wedding anniversary? 10 11 A. It is 2003, I don't know exactly, but it is 2003. Q. She is your fourth wife, is that right? 12 13 A. Yes, fourth wife. 14 Q. Can I then move on to some points about disclosure? The 15 first point is about the disclosure statements that have 16 been prepared on your behalf in this case. Would you 17 please pick up bundle F? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can we put the happy snaps away 18 19 now? 20 MR FREEDMAN: Please. F1, please, and if you go to 21 page 190. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. This is a document of 19 October 2010 from 24 Hogan Lovells, and it says that it is enclosing 25 a composite list of documents. In the second paragraph Q. Yes, 481.1.
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A. Got it. Q. In that list of documents we can see it is the defendant's list of documents and at 481.2 it is signed by you. Is that right? A. Yes. Q. In order to satisfy yourself that that list of documents was accurate, can you tell the court what steps you took to satisfy yourself before signing that disclosure statement? A. I -- we were told by our lawyers to look for new documents or whatever is available, and I asked Nada, your Lordship, to find whatever is available, and she just sent them through to the lawyers. Q. Did you take any steps yourself to satisfy yourself that list of documents was complete? A. No, I just gave an instruction. I just I said, "Whatever the lawyers Hogan need, just provide them with completely". Q. Do I take that there was no independent assessment on your part over and above the assessment that took place by Miss Al-Sugair? A. I just told Nada, "Everything you have relating to that subject, send it to the lawyers complete", because these are lawyers, you have to give them whatever they ask
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for. Q. Can we see what is said about the categories that have been looked at? A. Yes. Q. We can see at 481.1: "The defendant is confirming that he has carried out a reasonable and proportionate search to locate all the documents which I'm required to disclose." It then says: "I did not search for documents [halfway down the page] located elsewhere than the defendant's offices in Riyadh. Enquiries were also made of Ernst & Young in Riyadh and Amman and I also did not search for documents in categories other than documents relating to Project Touscha and the sale of the defendant's Airbus aircraft." Now, it follows from that that there has not been any search carried out in respect of the project where Mrs Sharab was assisting in 1999 to 2001 regarding the African hotels project, is that correct? A. She had clear instructions to provide those, whatever they asked for, 100 per cent. There is no doubt about that. I don't know the details of this, that we are talking about right now. Q. But it does follow that all you have confined yourself
and I told Nada to search all she has. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You realise the consequence, that you assume an obligation by signing the search document, which, if you break it, can be a contempt of court? A. Sure, sure. Your Lordship, I can't search myself, because, all these things, I don't have access to them, I just gave her instructions, "Whatever they need, provide 100 per cent", and I can't be clearer than that, you know, I have to be co-operative with your Lordship. MR FREEDMAN: I want to ask you about relevant material from Ernst & Young, that is Mr Alaeddin's firm. If you would turn, please to page 183 in that bundle. Page 183. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Are you saying in this second disclosure statement he had an obligation to disclose more material in relation to your client's dealings pre-1999, because that wasn't in the order, was it? MR FREEDMAN: No, it wasn't in an application. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to show that the interpretation of the disclosure has been a narrow and specific interpretation. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: But this witness statement was pursuant to my order? MR FREEDMAN: Correct. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: If he has missed something out of 1999, it has been because there has been a failure to
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provide disclosure earlier. MR FREEDMAN: That is right. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Because he doesn't refer to it in that witness statement, it is not necessarily wrong, because he was not required to do so. MR FREEDMAN: No. I think are two stages, my Lord, if I may say. Stage 1 is there were certain specific documents being sought at that stage, but there was another stage and that was that we were dissatisfied with a confirmation from an employee; we wanted, under the rules, the disclosure statement to be signed by the defendant. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes. MR FREEDMAN: If you go to page 183 and to the last paragraph on that page, this is in response to that which was being sought by TLT, the solicitors for Mrs Sharab. "We have been in contact with Ernst & Young, being a successor firm to Arthur Andersen, to request the production of any relevant documents in its possession. Ernst & Young are undertaking a search for any relevant material in each of the three branch offices (Amman, Dubai and Riyadh) out of which Mr Alaeddin operated and for which email and accounting records are held locally. We hope to be in a position to provide additional
1 2 3 4 5 A. I have to defer back to Nada. I'm not aware. I just 6 told her -- the instructions were "Just give Hogan 7 everything you have", that is all, I didn't follow 8 through this with her. 9 Q. Nor is there an examination of documents relating to the 10 extent of the authority of Mr Alaeddin? 11 A. I can't reply, because Nada and, I can't really manage 12 these at all, these are very much detailed clerical 13 matters that are managed by others and I told Nada 14 "Co-operate with Hogan and give them everything you 15 have", these are the instructions from me. 16 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You realise the responsibility you 17 take on by signing the disclosure statement? 18 A. Yes, the lawyers told me to sign, so I signed it, and 19 I told Nada "Just submit to the lawyers everything you 20 have". 21 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I am sure you don't just sign 22 something because your lawyers say. That sounds like 23 what my children say to me. 24 A. No, no, no. They told me they want certain documents 25
to is Project Touscha and the sale of the Airbus aircraft, but you have not dealt with the project in respect of the hotels that was the subject of discussions and negotiations between 1999 and 2001; is that right?
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documents from this source to you when this search has been concluded." Do you see that? A. Yes, the last paragraph. Q. What then eventuates, if you go to page 190, is the letter that we saw leading to the list of documents, and the list of documents appears from page 190.4. We can see there that there are 56 documents. Do you see that? A. I mean, from 194 all the way to -Q. From 190.4 to 190.6 there are 56 documents? A. Yes. Q. If you keep that open, hold that open, but if you go back to page 178, we can see that there had been originally 47 documents. 178.1, there had originally been 47 documents and there were then produced additional documents 48 to 55 so that is an additional eight documents; do you see that? A. Which page is that; 178? Q. 178.1. A. Yes. Q. So those documents then come into this composite list of documents going to 190.4 to 190.6. But now in this composite list, instead of having 55 documents as we previously had, there are now 56 documents. Do you see that?
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Q. That is right. A. Yes. Q. So it follows from this that despite the attempts to get documents from Ernst & Young through the various offices in Riyadh, Amman and Dubai, all that that has produced has been one solitary document, the document at number 22; yes? A. Yes, yes. Q. What I -- we can also see, just one other point, if we go back to page 190.1? A. Yes. Q. In fact, the search that has been made is not a search of Riyadh, Amman and Dubai, but we can see that you didn't search for documents other than at Ernst & Young's offices in Riyadh and Amman. So it appears that there wasn't a search carried out in Dubai; yes? A. I mean the instructions were clear, search whatever and give whatever is needed. Q. So when we had the problem that we were looking at yesterday as to why there weren't Ernst & Young documents after May 2004 and why there weren't Arthur Andersen documents before September 2002, it may be the case that there has not been a very thorough search?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. What are you talking about? Q. What we previously had was we had a supplemental list that contained documents 48 to 55? A. Okay. Q. Now we have got -A. 48 to -Q. To 55. That meant there was a previous list to that which had documents 1 to 47? A. Yes. Q. So that is now 1 to 55, 1 to 48 and then 1 to 47 and 48 to 55. Now at 190.4 to 190.6, we have a composite list of now 56 documents. So there is one more document that has been added into the composite list; yes? A. Yes. Q. Therefore, what has happened is that, following the attempts to get some further documents from Ernst & Young, there has been added one additional document and I will show you what that additional document is. It is at 190.5 and it is at number 22, 19 May 2004. It is the covering letter from Ernst & Young with the attached invoice. That was the document that we looked at which contained the professional fees of Mr Alaeddin; yes? A. That is the one that had my handwriting on?
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A. Look, the instructions are clear: search and submit to Hogan whatever is available. Clear instructions, now if something -- if there is a deficiency here or Ernst & Young did not submit, then I think it is difficult to put the blame on us. Q. I then want to move on to the search for electronic documents. On 15 June 2010, there was a letter sent -MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: We will have a short break before we get to those. Remember what I said about you and tiredness, it is a long day in the witness-box. A. Don't worry, I'm in good shape. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You are in good shape, but even the best get tired. 4.40 pm. (4.35 pm) (A short break) MR FREEDMAN: I was about to ask you about the searches for electronic documents. If you would go, please, in bundle F1 to page 190. A. Yes, what page? Q. 190. A. Yes. Q. We looked at this letter before but this is again part of a response to a letter from TLT, the third paragraph: "In the course of our enquiries, our client has
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confirmed that, like your client, he did not communicate by email in relation to matters relevant to these proceedings. Accordingly, our client, like yours, has not conducted any search for electronic documents." So what was being said was that you have not communicated by email -- you haven't -- in relation to these matters, the matters relevant to these proceedings, and will you confirm that that was correct that you didn't? A. Yes, on this particular subject, your Lordship, I remember letters coming to me personally and she said that "I looked at all the emails" and she found nothing on that subject, yes. She very explicitly came to me on that subject, on the emails. Q. Next, what I would like you to do is we put away that bundle and go to bundle F2, please. Would you go to page 562? At paragraph 1 of that email it says in the paragraph numbered 1: "The electronic searches required under the order of Mr Strauss and the order were carried out by a member of our client's IT department who is able to search into the inboxes and, out of an excess of caution, the electronic searches run most recently replicated the searches run for the purposes of the original disclosure
I think we there see that email from Adel Abu Sultan to Pete Viljoen and we can see it is about crediting an account and some payment matter? A. Yes. Q. Can you say who Mr Abu Sultan is? A. I don't know Abu Sultan but I know Pete. Pete is the Airbus captain that took the plane from Lufthansa to Riyadh. I don't know Abu Sultan. Q. But this is a communication by email, isn't it? A. Yes, it is, yes. Q. It is a communication by email -- is Abu Sultan a part of your staff? A. No, I don't know him, no. Pete is, not Abu Sultan. I don't know him, no. To the best of my knowledge, no, I don't know him, but I know Pete for sure. Q. If we look at the bottom part of the page we have an email from Pete Viljoen, who is part of Kingdom Air, part of your staff to Mr Abu Sultan; yes? A. Yes. Q. That is one of the documents disclosed. It follows from that, does it not, that when your solicitors had said on your behalf, on 1 July -- if you go back to bundle F2, at page 563, it is point number 1 -- that: "... our client, its servants and agents, did not communicate by email in relation to matters relevant to
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 exercise." Then it talks about how that was then done. Then it talks about how the search was arranged and, if you go over the page to page 563: "In answer to the questions in the second section of your letter, we have confirmed to that you our client, his agents and servants, did not communicate by email in relation to matters relevant to the proceedings. So that was going beyond what had previously been said. What had previously been said was that you didn't communicate by email in relation to these matters. Now it was being confirmed that not only you, but also your agents and servants, did not communicate by email in relation to the matters relevant to the proceedings. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. If you would now go, please, to bundle F1 again. Would you go in F1 to page 190.6? A. Yes. Q. If you look -- we looked at this. This is the composite bundle of documents and if you go number 55 we can see 2 September 2006, an email from Adel A Abu Sultan to Pete Viljoen. If you would keep that open, please, but also open up bundle D2 and go behind tab 142; D2 behind tab 142.
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the proceedings", that that actually is not true, because we have seen an email between a member of your staff and somebody else in relation to matters relevant to these proceedings? A. But is that relevant to the direct proceedings this subject? Is it explicitly direct to it or is this from our captain to someone? Q. It has been disclosed by your side, it is document 55 as we have seen in the composite list of documents. So it follows from its disclosure that it must have been disclosed because it is thought to be relevant, and I suggest to you, as a result of that, when there has been a confirmation on Monday of this week that there have been no emails between you, your agents or servants and others, that that is not true? A. I think Nada searched everything and she gave all what she had, and this clause says -- our lawyers say: "We have confirmed that our client, its servants and agents, did not communicate by email in relation to matters relevant in these proceedings." Maybe they are implying that there were no emails in particular to the lawsuit that we have right now. Q. We have seen a document relevant to the lawsuit and, given that, it is not right, is it, to say that there are no emails between your servants or agents?
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1 2 correct? She provided that email to you, didn't she? 3 Is that part of the package that we have sent you? That 4 is what we sent you; correct? 5 Q. Yes, I'm talking about the material I have got. 6 A. So she has provided with you everything that she had. 7 Q. Can I then invite your attention back to bundle D2 at 8 tab 76? So we can put away the F bundles and go to D2. 9 MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Do you know where that email came 10 from, in the sense that it is an email, it must have 11 gone into an email account, and the email accounts there 12 don't appear to relate to any of His Highness' 13 operations? Do we know? It might have been a copy that 14 was printed off. I don't know. 15 MR PYMONT: We will look into it, my Lord. 16 MR FREEDMAN: It says Kingdom Air, that is the company. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. At tab 76 of D2, please. 19 A. 76? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. This is a letter that you sent to Mr Al-Huweij. What 23 is -- and there is an annotation on the bottom, of 24 Mrs Sharab's, and her evidence was this: that this 25
provide everything for you, and she provided that email;
A. I have to investigate that, because I told Nada just to
position of President of LAFICO; correct? A. Mohamed Al-Rajab, yes, I guess so yes. Q. LAFICO was the purchaser of the aeroplane? A. Partly, they are part of the $70 million, not the 50. So they are only a part purchaser. Q. In this statement dated 21 June 2007, he says the following at paragraph 9. He said: "... I never met Prince Alwaleed at all. Upon my signature, the final settlement ..." A. Which page? Q. Paragraph 9, page 37, so it is behind tab 2? A. Yes, I have got it. Q. "In all the meetings and negotiations, I never met Prince Alwaleed at all. Upon my signature on the final settlement, there appeared Mrs Daad alone and brought to me the settlement signed by Prince Alwaleed. We negotiated with her and the agreement was signed by us." I take it that you are not in a position to contradict that? A. No. Q. At paragraph 10: "Mrs Daad Sharab played a clear and concentrated role in the negotiations from the start to the end until we arrived at concluding the final settlement agreement on 21 September 2005 and the termination of the
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 document had been sent by you or by somebody on your behalf independently of her to Mr Al-Huweij. Do you accept that that was the case? A. Can you just -- I need to refresh my memory, please. Q. Please do. Read it to yourself, that page. A. Yes. (Pause). Because this letter was not signed by me. My name is there, but it was not signed, so I don't remember it very well. It was not signed. Q. That copy is not signed -A. No. Q. -- but she is suggesting that in fact it did get to -she has got a copy there and what she is suggesting -A. I don't recall it. Q. -- is that you or somebody on your behalf had sent it already to Mr Al-Huweij. That is possible, is it? A. It is possible, yes. I don't say it is impossible, because I used to communicate with Mr Al-Huweij, yes, and he was an important man. Actually, he was the head of LAFICO and then he became the Minister of Finance. Q. Would you now go, please, to bundle B? A. Yes. Q. Would you go behind tab 2? A. Yes. Q. There appears a statement of Mr Rajab and he held the
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difference which, without her personally, would not have ended positively." A. But see -Q. I suggest to you that that is true? A. But I have to refer to the title of this document, your Lordship. This document is "testimony", so this is not official, not formal at all, this is done on a personal basis between Hamed Rajab and her. That is not official, and it does not have the title of Libya. So it is all done on a personal basis between Hamed Rajab and her. So if I'm implying there's a collusion, possibly, but I don't have no proof. But this is not official, not formal. It is only a personal letter from him to her. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: The first question is, why is Mr Rajab not here? MR FREEDMAN: That is the subject of Civil Evidence Act notices. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I understand that. MR FREEDMAN: There was one issued on 9 September 2010, which your Lordship can find at page 40. And there is another one which may take two or three minutes to find. While that is being looked at, can I just complete my questions? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Yes.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 one element in Libya, if this letter is true and not bogus. Q. But you don't contradict, do you -- you have no information to contradict paragraph 11?
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MR FREEDMAN: At paragraph 10, leave aside whether it is formal or informal, do you agree with Mr Rajab about what he says in respect of Mrs Sharab? A. Not only that, this letter could be bogus also. What proof do you have that he wrote it? You have no proof. Q. Could you please answer my question as to whether paragraph 10 is correct? A. No, I can't say it is correct, because I don't know who wrote and I don't know who signed it. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Never mind about that point, Mr Pymont will make submissions as to what weight I give to this statement. A. Good. agree with this statement or not, because if you do agree with it, it doesn't matter; if you disagree with it, then -A. Okay. My position on that statement is it is very much exaggerated and it is very clear that he is personalising it and it was done as a quid pro quo for something. That is my interpretation of it. MR FREEDMAN: Is that another of your insinuations about fraud? A. No. I'm saying this letter has no credibility whatsoever, it is not authentic or credible, it is not
A. I have no information to contradict, but this letter is very controversial and it is on the verge of not being correct. MR FREEDMAN: In answer to your Lordship's question, there is certainly correspondence, there is explanation in a letter that is in bundle F. It is a very large bundle and it is fairly recent as well, because we got the document -- the document was sent within the last month or so. The point that is written in the letter is that he cannot be found and we don't know where he is. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Right, okay. Can you help me with page 36? The top right-hand corner, that is a certificate by the translator in Arabic? A. Excuse me, my Lord? MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Can you tell me what the Arabic says? A. Yes, it says: "The office of Al-Khateeb for translation. Jordan mountain, the building, Abu Nam'a, facing the hospital of Amman for surgery, next to the round number 3 and floor number 3."
MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I'm more interested in whether you 14
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 signed on the official letters of Libya, so it is very much personal. It could be bogus also. There is no proof that the guy signed it. Q. I suggest to you that, as regards paragraph 10, you are unable to disagree with what is said in paragraph 10? A. Sorry, I am very much in disagreement with it. Please don't put words in my mouth. Q. What do you disagree with? A. These things are all exaggerated. It is very clear it is done on a personal basis between a man and Daad. Q. Do you disagree with the fact that she had a clear and concentrated role in the negotiations from the start to the end? A. She had a role, but this thing is overemphasising it and overexaggerating, which I don't like. Q. And that she had that role from the time of the settlement agreement on 21st September 2005? A. Independent from this letter, yes. Q. Then at paragraph 11, he says: "Mrs Sharab has not received any sums or commissions from LAFICO in return for her aforementioned efforts." I take it from your answer that you gave earlier this afternoon that you are not in a position to contradict that? A. This guy does not represent Libya at all, this guy is
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So it is giving the address of that translator. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: It is just the address then. A. Yes, it is just the address. Basically, the translation is to the left. MR FREEDMAN: My Lord, that concludes my cross-examination. Would your Lordship allow me one moment? (Pause) My Lord, the document is at page 409 of bundle F. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Have you accurately summarised it? MR FREEDMAN: Yes, I have. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: You cannot find it immediately now, which is a proposition I wouldn't necessarily find surprising. MR FREEDMAN: Yes. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: Mr Pymont, any questions? MR PYMONT: I have no questions, my Lord. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I have no questions, and I think Your Highness has had enough questions over the two days. Thank you very much. You are released. That is the end of the evidence, apart from the experts tomorrow. I believe that it is in the interests of the parties overall to attempt a negotiated settlement. I will not say anything about the strengths of the parties' case for two reasons. First, it would be completely unfair
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of me pre-emptively at this stage to express a view and, second, I'm not in a position to express a view because I have been a cipher, there is a large amount of evidence, a lot of answers, and that is something to be done at the other stage. However, both sides are represented by very experienced trial lawyers, both at counsel and solicitor level and they will be able to advise their clients respectively how they have done. I have no doubt they will do so by reminding the parties that the case at the end of this evidence still almost entirely turns on oral testimony. The documents are interesting, but I think it is fair to say that none of documents is stunningly conclusive for either party. There are little points, so that means that this is what we call a 50/50 case in reality. Either one side or the other is mistaken as to what went on, putting it neutrally. There are serious risks in a party losing this case, it has nothing necessarily to do with the case, and I believe it is in the interests of the parties to negotiate a sensible commercial settlement, but I can say nothing more than that. I always take the view that commercial disputes should be settled rather than left to the judge when you lose control. Page 245
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PAGE PRINCE ALWALEED BIN TALAL BIN ........................1 ABDALAZIZ ALSAUD (continued) Cross-examination by MR FREEDMAN ..............1 (continued)
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However, if the parties cannot settle, it is my duty, which I shall discharge in coming to a decision. Neither side should take what I'm saying now as any indication as to where I believe the merits are at this stage. You can form your own view. There are large enough teams here. I hope that is helpful. Silence. Silence sometimes means assent and sometimes means dissent. Are we in Sir Thomas More's area or not? There is still no assent. Oh dear. MR PYMONT: I think the silence should be maintained for the moment. We hear your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: That is the nice phrase which sometimes I don't like, "I hear what your Lordship says". MR FREEDMAN: I'm grateful to your Lordship. MR JUSTICE PETER SMITH: I shall say nothing more about it and see you tomorrow at 10.30. (17.10 pm) (The hearing was adjourned until 10.30 am on Wednesday 3 July 2013)
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accepts 191:7 access 43:17 70:21 133:17 144:10 169:23 227:6 accidental 9:2 accidentally 10:11 accommodating 125:23 accommodative 127:1 accompli 90:22 account 93:21 94:1,10,14 95:9 235:3 237:12 accounting 228:24 accounts 43:10 43:12,21 237:12 accurate 8:23 224:8 accurately 182:16 244:9 achieve 55:20 72:20 87:20 191:17 achieved 55:21 79:13 87:13 134:19 189:8 achievement 79:5 achieving 88:12 acknowledge 10:12 87:7 140:20 158:24 159:15 160:16 166:24 171:23 acknowledged 166:2 186:10 188:8 189:15 197:6 acknowledging 196:15 acquaintances 193:23 acquire 1:14 5:8 5:10 acquired 25:25 39:9 161:8,13 163:2 acquiring 3:12 42:4,18 164:9 acquisition 3:2 54:18 164:8,25 189:13,13 act 37:19 240:17 acted 160:18 acting 144:8 169:20 170:4 action 87:18 173:19 207:2 active 195:23 actual 66:19
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97:19 115:14 126:18 164:23 166:12 192:10 Africa 88:24 African 225:20 Afriqiyah 18:10 177:8 afternoon 242:23 Agency 46:5 agenda 185:8 204:24,25 agendas 120:15 agents 234:7,13 235:24 236:14 236:19,25 ago 2:5,12 7:22 32:8,9 44:4 98:8 129:10 177:10 195:25 196:2 agree 6:17 53:12 53:15 55:8 68:13 69:10 71:22 72:14,23 75:19 80:14 88:3,4,9 96:22 102:6 107:21 110:22,25 111:3 128:5,6 132:18,21 133:11,25 134:3 150:19 151:9,13,14,15 151:22 160:11 163:16,19 192:20,21 195:7 217:5 241:2,15,16 agreed 42:20 45:23 56:8,17 57:13 61:17 62:7 67:21 69:15 72:5 76:18 85:15 98:7 99:21 101:23 102:1 110:10,12 112:9 113:6 122:1 142:15 147:3 196:6,11 198:11 199:11 201:11 205:17 205:20 206:11 206:13,15,16 208:9 209:22 209:23 agreement 1:13 1:17,24 2:6,20 2:23 3:2,7,8,21 3:22 4:1,6,17 4:22 5:7 6:2,5 6:13,19,20,22 7:24 10:2 11:18 13:3 25:15,24,25
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170:16 184:15 184:16,17 claims 135:3 clarifying 68:21 clash 160:24 clashed 186:20 clause 6:14 26:8 40:6 43:6 236:17 clear 58:8 65:13 68:3 75:11 76:16 79:7 91:17 99:9 146:23 156:17 163:19 171:5 194:16 196:24 203:20 216:12 225:21 231:18 232:1,2 239:22 241:19 242:9 242:11 clearer 227:8 clearly 12:2 17:16 20:6 57:25 63:1 66:1 71:11 72:23 75:10 78:3 86:23 90:13 92:23 95:3 112:16 125:18 126:19 194:17 200:23 204:25 210:8,9 216:14 219:12 clerical 94:2 226:13 clerk 129:10 clever 54:2 152:3 client 28:25 29:16 193:1 208:22 232:25 233:1,3 234:6 235:24 236:18 clients 245:8 client's 49:14 223:6 227:15 233:22 close 17:18 98:9 118:14 134:12 142:11 168:14 closed 96:3,24 97:9,17 98:11 109:4,13 173:22 closer 138:12 closing 99:15 coincided 162:5 collection 124:4 collusion 240:12 Colonel 5:18 7:9 7:13 8:10 19:1 19:5,17 23:3 24:21 38:22 51:24 52:4 53:1 54:1 65:7 69:20 70:3,11
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16:20 17:15 18:3,7 20:5 21:1 24:17,17 26:4 29:5,14 29:23 35:14,24 36:2,8 38:19 38:23 39:13,16 39:17,23 40:4 44:1,16,18 46:24 48:10,24 48:24 49:2 55:22,25 56:2 56:3,18,19 57:5,6 58:24 60:5 61:13 63:15 65:3,4 67:1,2 69:11 71:25 77:13 80:15,21 81:5 82:11 84:3 89:3 90:19 91:10 94:3 95:14 96:10 97:25 98:17,25 99:20 101:10 101:17,22,24 103:9 104:8,18 105:14 106:6 106:17 108:10 109:23 110:19 111:5,15 112:3 112:9 113:7 114:9,22 116:5 116:22 117:1,3 117:24 118:5 118:12 119:14 120:12 121:24 123:13,16 124:16 136:20 138:25 146:14 147:22,23 149:11,21,24 149:25,25 150:3,5,7,11 151:17 156:11 157:3 160:1 162:1,6 169:1 169:5 180:17 181:19 182:24 182:25 183:19 184:3 187:20 192:22,25 193:6,16,17 195:14 204:11 205:4 207:13 208:6,13 211:17 218:5 222:20 223:14 223:22 228:14 229:5,12 231:10 232:18 233:16,16 234:3,17,18,21 234:24 235:22 237:9 238:21 238:23
goes 96:6 194:25 going 2:19 10:15 20:24 22:9 26:9,10 27:3 33:14,17,22 35:24 47:9 52:5 53:24,24 54:22 56:2,2 62:12 66:3 85:6,7 86:21 91:1 93:25 99:19 103:11 103:22,22,24 106:3 109:9 121:19,21 128:7 129:7 131:7 138:22 140:8 142:9,10 144:21 149:11 149:17,18 151:21 153:11 157:4,7 159:18 160:12 161:12 162:7 165:2 167:22 168:24 171:3,3 175:5 175:20 178:3 179:20 180:10 182:20 185:7 185:20,23 186:1 188:1,16 189:15,17 192:16,24 198:12 201:12 202:9 205:2 207:13 210:19 217:4,10 229:22 234:9 good 23:2,6 35:9 52:3,6 54:5 61:4,6 63:4 65:10 67:9,13 67:15 69:22 70:2,5,8,12 71:16 79:4,7 80:12 87:8 92:13 100:5 119:13 121:22 131:4,9 133:3 138:11 139:7 141:14 152:22 154:24 165:4 168:20 179:13 216:24 217:24 220:7 232:11 232:12 241:13 gorgeous 221:14 governed 72:15 government 16:12 17:7,12 grandchildren 221:18 grateful 195:8 246:16 gratitude 139:5 139:25 140:7
169:9 great 79:13 176:19 greater 134:4 135:2 ground 28:11 groundable 119:7 grounded 150:4 174:14 guaranteeing 41:3 guarantees 44:12 guard 31:2 guards 30:22 guess 17:24 239:2 guide 172:21 guy 50:14 115:13 126:11 166:8 242:3,25,25 G1 135:16,17,18 135:18 H H 2:21,22 5:5 6:6 26:2,2,3,4 39:14,15 44:16 48:24 habits 134:7 half 39:7,9 89:21 halfway 38:23 39:23 172:15 225:10 Hamed 240:8,11 hand 44:9 80:15 80:15,21,21 81:5,5 90:14 99:21 112:10 112:11 209:7,7 handed 178:19 178:22 handover 195:23 handwriting 230:25 hanging 173:8 happen 13:11 37:9,10,13 66:11 87:9 140:2,7 167:6 167:8 187:1 happened 24:3 56:24 62:17,19 62:23,24 65:18 65:18 66:10,12 66:15 69:3 87:13 89:1,13 91:12 93:13 95:11,22 100:12 102:2 102:24 103:1,6 103:6,23 105:22 106:8 109:8 111:18 113:6 115:6,24
116:9 117:23 120:6,19 121:1 121:6,11 123:1 123:5,10,12 140:3,4,6,9,9 140:10,10,13 140:15 142:2 150:10 164:20 167:24 169:7 183:4 189:23 210:2 214:19 217:22 223:20 230:16 happening 14:17 55:17 113:25 152:21 153:5,6 happens 162:3 180:20,25 181:5 happier 220:6 happy 48:3 61:12 63:18,19 64:18 104:9 144:8 159:22 169:21 211:14 211:15,17,18 211:18 222:18 hard 120:18,18 191:16 192:13 216:9,9 harm 167:16 harmonious 105:20 Hartson 208:14 head 18:9 73:8 149:3 156:9 177:6,7 238:19 hear 132:20 156:6 218:5 246:12,14 heard 37:4,5 65:11 94:17 95:1 171:8 196:8 hearing 122:11 160:9 246:20 hears 103:5 213:21 heated 123:23 124:18 125:17 125:18,22 126:4,7,11,17 126:22 127:5,7 127:7,12,16,17 held 8:7 228:24 238:25 help 45:11 63:4 70:6 100:22,23 106:13 110:6 153:20 168:13 204:16 210:19 243:15 helpful 202:8 246:7 hesitation 173:3 hiding 58:22,23
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2 July 2013
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145:16 178:7 hierarchy 186:21 high 14:18 17:21 51:9 161:1 168:10 173:5 191:17 higher 161:5 highest 170:1 173:10 Highness 35:11 66:4 77:14 101:21 104:2 111:7 126:13 128:2 130:6,21 167:13 173:4 176:19,24 185:18 195:6 195:25,25 196:3,5 201:18 205:13,18 208:17,20 212:7,9 213:17 237:13 244:18 high-rise 32:7 Hijazi 115:7 117:2,14 123:23 124:18 125:2,6,21 126:17,19 hired 118:22 156:16 219:21 hit 34:23 Hogan 28:4 29:10 208:14 222:24 223:11 224:18 226:7 226:15 232:2 hold 113:20 143:10 151:5 174:22 216:3 229:12 holder 40:1 holding 3:4 46:3 144:11,14 145:8,9,15 152:4 175:3 179:17 Holdings 53:6 holes 181:23 holy 48:9 home 68:2 138:22 193:6 homework 34:13 35:6,8 42:6 44:13,14 47:20 47:22 50:1 honest 34:17 36:9,15 81:19 105:9,18 168:8 194:22,25 204:18 212:25 honour 13:11 87:15 180:14 180:15 honourable
120:13 171:22 188:20 honoured 211:10 honouring 35:21 hope 21:16 190:25 222:8 228:25 246:7 hoped 220:8,9 Hosni 136:15 hospital 243:23 hotel 74:14 88:25 91:16 99:5 173:6 198:8 hotels 225:20 226:3 hour 60:14,17 72:17 73:1 76:9 96:1 hours 124:5 139:2 hug 133:14 huge 8:1,6 13:6 21:15 22:10 hugged 133:14 hull 162:19 167:4 hurry 162:20 H1 48:22 I idea 1:23 131:4 134:18 137:8 148:25 201:25 202:10 217:24 ideas 149:2 194:17 identified 212:14 212:16 identify 211:20 211:25 identifying 12:24 211:6 212:21 ignorance 134:7 ignore 158:6 ignoring 149:10 image 136:9 137:15 imagine 73:8 165:23 immediately 244:11 imminently 41:17 impact 19:6 164:25 implement 195:23 implementing 168:4 implications 78:25 79:6 80:13 implicit 194:16
217:25 imploring 176:1 implying 69:5 118:3 236:21 240:11 importance 97:15 102:18 important 31:18 40:11 71:10 77:18,20 91:17 97:12 102:17 106:4 112:25 128:21 130:7 136:10 138:21 146:19,22 156:6 159:12 198:14,23 204:6 213:14 213:16 214:4,8 238:19 importantly 141:23 impossible 105:9 164:6 238:17 impression 78:18 143:21 144:2 169:14 209:10 imprisoned 168:15 inaccurate 174:16 inadequate 128:15 inboxes 233:23 inception 139:18 203:19 include 19:14 includes 25:11 including 12:22 30:2,12 114:19 income 43:15 inconsistent 3:22 54:17 inconvenience 98:24 incorporation 45:20 incorrect 9:10 52:18,21 61:23 64:20 69:6 71:24 92:17 93:25 110:21 115:19 137:19 139:10 increase 25:4 31:9 45:25 53:4 162:22 increasing 45:17 47:4,5 increasingly 144:3 169:16 independent 224:20 242:18 independently 50:2 238:2
INDEX 247:1 indicate 65:9 indicated 81:11 indication 246:4 induce 35:16 indulged 24:12 influence 147:20 147:22 influential 71:17 inform 25:6 173:4 175:23 205:16 212:6 informal 241:2 information 28:15,16 44:15 47:17 58:1 243:4,5 informing 151:5 151:10,16 Inhoco 26:7 initial 47:6 initiative 147:7 ink 34:11 inside 34:6 54:15 120:22 insinuate 171:11 insinuation 170:25 insinuations 241:22 insist 172:24 insisted 10:6 62:4 Insofar 57:20 instance 166:2 instances 138:25 instruction 5:22 18:1 224:17 instructions 18:2 18:2 170:4 173:5 225:21 226:7,16 227:7 231:18 232:1,2 instrumental 142:9 insulted 111:13 insulting 118:18 intelligence 148:13 149:3 156:9 177:6 intention 151:5 164:18 176:7 intentions 151:10,17 interact 188:1 interacts 136:11 interest 40:2 104:16 interested 79:11 92:9 96:9 132:20 241:14 interesting 5:17 201:20 245:13 interests 133:15 144:8 169:20 170:5 192:19
244:22 245:21 interfered 86:21 interior 28:21,24 29:2 internal 161:5 179:20 internally 186:20 international 70:1 internationally 22:16 interpret 12:3 171:5 interpretation 12:19 133:23 133:25 176:14 176:16 196:14 209:6 210:24 214:23 215:1 227:19,20 241:21 interpreted 167:18,19 interrupt 98:25 167:19 195:9 interrupted 17:5 intervening 80:19 introduced 131:3 introducing 45:16 introduction 25:1 49:4 71:15 146:19 189:10 intrude 177:3 invented 93:18 213:7 invest 32:5,6 42:8 48:12 49:24 61:21 69:24 invested 44:23 44:23 investigate 237:1 investment 26:22 28:19 45:21 46:5 47:12 48:8 129:3 investments 48:9 49:23 invitation 137:12 invite 48:10 237:8 invoice 230:22 involve 114:24 involved 23:4 38:2 119:17 158:25 159:16 involvement 70:25 71:8,10 158:21 170:13
IPO 46:25 irritated 170:9 issue 21:16 23:18 71:17,18 91:19 93:10 107:20 112:11 115:15 141:1 148:2,7 154:11 180:3 184:22 188:2,9 191:4 204:24 207:8 216:2 issued 30:23 240:20 issues 136:10 147:6 item 15:9 70:15 104:17 155:20 162:14 185:7 items 21:17 70:15,16,20 J January 14:2 181:24 Jazeera 134:17 134:21,23 jealous 135:8 jealously 30:22 31:2 Jefri 31:19 34:20 34:22 36:25 54:7,8,9,16 Jenson 131:23 jet 118:22 156:16,17 164:14 jets 119:1 Jetstar 52:10 job 61:13 63:4 70:6,8 71:16 79:7 80:12 87:8,25 139:7 141:14 join 45:21 jointly 17:17 joke 221:13 joking 63:20 Jordan 243:22 Jordanian 17:17 Jordan's 136:14 jot 200:17 judge 218:4,9,9 245:25 judges 201:18 judgment 51:15 51:15,16 July 1:1 4:23 6:3 10:19,23 11:15 11:15,15,18 24:23 53:22 88:20,22 198:8 235:22 246:21 jumped 85:5 June 3:4 4:3 5:13,15 11:10 11:11 45:14
181:22 232:7 239:6 jurisdiction 94:16,25 95:3 211:5,8 JUSTICE 1:5 2:17 3:10,19 4:3,7,14,21,25 6:12,16,21,24 7:1 8:22 9:1,5 9:13,15,21 10:5,10 12:5,8 12:10,12,16 16:17,21 18:23 19:10,13,21 20:12,16 23:1 23:12 24:4,8 24:11 27:5,11 27:22 33:6,12 33:16,20 34:4 34:15,22 35:11 36:5,21 46:9 48:22 54:23 59:11,14,23 60:2,4,10 66:4 67:19 72:14,19 72:24 73:15,23 74:2 75:17 76:3,6,20 77:13 78:8,13 78:17,21 79:9 79:16 83:9 84:7,13,17,24 85:3,18 86:17 87:1,3,11 88:11,18 89:21 90:23 97:19,22 98:17,22 99:1 99:12 100:1,9 100:16,20,22 101:13,20 102:4,9,12 103:3,24 104:6 104:23 105:2 105:16,21,25 108:6 110:9 111:7,20 112:2 116:15,23 117:6,10,15 118:20,25 119:5,8,12,18 119:20 120:1 121:12,15,25 124:23 125:3,9 125:14,20,25 126:8,12 127:9 127:18,22,25 128:5,7,24 129:2,7,9,17 129:20,24 130:3,5,10,17 130:19 131:4,9 131:17,20,24 132:3,6,8,12 132:15 133:5 134:9 137:22
Day 5
2 July 2013
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138:1,4,10 151:20 152:11 152:15,24 153:3,25 154:20,24 155:2,4,6,8,10 155:13,17,25 156:4,14,22 159:5,12 163:10,23 164:6,13,16,22 165:7,11,18,22 166:11 167:3,6 167:9,12,21 168:18,23 171:16,22 172:4 178:8,11 178:15,21 179:2,6,9,12 179:16 180:2,4 180:9,14,22 181:12 182:20 185:9,18 186:5 186:16 187:12 187:20 188:5 188:13,19 189:2,7 190:2 190:25 191:12 192:9,22 193:1 193:3,17 194:8 194:10,24 195:9 198:13 198:23 199:2,5 199:8,24 200:3 200:5,9,13,16 200:19 201:4 201:17 202:2 205:6 206:3,7 206:23 209:8 209:16 210:13 211:12,15 213:16 214:1,3 214:16 215:6 216:9,12,18,22 217:23 218:2,8 218:12,14 219:11,16,21 219:24 222:4,8 222:18 223:9 223:11 226:17 226:22 227:2 227:13,21,24 228:3,13 232:8 232:12 237:10 240:15,19,25 241:10,14 243:15,19 244:2,9,11,15 244:17 246:13 246:17 justification 31:10,14 36:22 justifications 30:7 31:8 justified 171:23 justify 32:12
36:6 191:24 K keen 135:4,8 137:15 142:11 keep 14:23 15:2 16:3,3 20:10 21:23,24 22:9 22:24 24:1,5 62:8 73:9,11 73:12,13 78:24 86:6 118:19 144:20 145:22 148:15,22 150:17 173:12 229:12 234:23 keeping 79:13 115:10 164:18 164:18 172:24 174:22 kept 23:23 41:22 43:7 63:6 70:7 73:14 80:22 88:8 140:20 155:9,11 179:13 key 23:18 59:20 77:18 188:2,9 188:10 Khan 137:8 138:13 kick 43:6 kind 15:23 16:9 16:10 37:19 38:25 39:2 48:1 50:22 148:18 kinds 23:5 24:12 24:13 King 136:14 137:13,13 Kingdom 3:4 32:6 46:3 49:25 53:6 235:17 237:17 knew 11:5,21 12:20 20:1 39:8 50:15 52:5 69:19 71:7,13 149:15 165:13,18 167:7 199:3 202:9 203:17 203:19,22 215:10 know 2:14 9:9 15:20 16:6 20:13 24:9,24 31:24 32:13 34:21,24 35:19 36:1,19 40:15 41:25 42:3,4 42:24 44:2 46:24 47:20 48:7 51:7,8,9 51:10 52:7,11
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215:10 L la 131:10 lady 132:10,13 132:13,14 221:14 LAFICO 172:17 176:23 183:6 238:20 239:1,3 242:21 landmark 62:25 language 57:19 77:1 78:21 79:3,20,23,25 80:5,8,10 laptop 130:5 large 1:12,14,15 5:8,10 23:13 87:23 186:11 208:1 243:10 245:3 246:5 larger 73:15 largest 19:15 lasted 60:13 95:25 117:7 lasts 131:19 late 79:11 127:24 lately 133:4 law 24:14 lawsuit 236:22 236:23 lawyer 131:24 194:17 lawyers 35:12 66:7 95:2 97:18,20 181:1 194:19,19 208:14 215:7,7 224:11,14,18 224:24,25 226:19,20,23 236:17 245:7 lawyer's 95:6 leaders 137:6,9 137:17 leadership 161:6 leading 137:6 229:6 leaking 122:6 lean 78:22 learned 67:23 learnt 65:5 67:1 67:10 68:8,9 68:14 leased 103:10,13 105:15 119:4,6 174:15 219:6 220:4 leather 219:24 leave 5:24 73:10 121:2 124:3 132:16 241:1 leaving 107:4 157:10 189:11 led 37:16 71:20
87:24 186:9 189:11 190:14 left 13:24 24:22 25:17 55:10 73:12 115:24 122:20,25 123:11,11 124:5 139:2,3 192:18 244:4 245:24 legal 172:23 173:3 208:19 210:10 Lenin 138:6 lesser 25:20 letter 7:8,12,16 8:3,17 9:10 10:10 12:5,9 12:18 14:14 16:14,17,19 18:13 20:17 21:1,5 22:9 24:20,21,24,24 24:25 25:2 28:4 29:15,23 32:17,17,18 38:22 49:5 85:6 88:16,18 161:24 162:4 165:11 169:24 170:5 171:2,13 171:25 172:7,8 172:10,12,15 173:23 174:8 174:21,24 176:8 177:16 184:6,16 195:16 196:1 196:12,14 197:19,19 199:5,17,19 200:8,9 201:7 203:11,17 204:8 205:4,11 205:13,25 207:1 208:16 208:22 209:3 209:18 210:5 212:3,12,15,15 212:22 223:11 229:6 230:21 232:7,23,24 234:6 237:23 238:7 240:14 241:4,24 242:18 243:1,5 243:10,13 letters 22:4,20 22:21 61:19 64:21 71:4,6 75:15,17,18,20 82:9,9 141:3 141:23,23,24 141:25 188:12 200:6,25 211:25 212:4
212:22 213:19 214:22 233:11 242:1 let's 1:8 8:22 11:11 13:12 27:4,14 39:13 39:13,16 58:10 64:24 65:4 73:16 117:20 124:15 130:20 131:20 146:11 154:4,7,9 169:1 172:12 180:11 182:23 189:23 191:21 204:18 205:4 206:7 216:22 216:25 217:2,3 level 69:15 70:18 70:23 72:2 76:11 84:6 161:1,5 168:10 173:5 187:23 187:23 210:9 245:8 levels 36:8 lever 189:18,19 leverage 23:25 leveraging 22:15 liar 192:24 194:1 liberated 220:1 Libya 3:14,18 4:19 5:23 7:22 11:19 13:25 16:16,24,25 22:2,6,14 23:23 24:22 55:3 56:10 58:24 61:20 69:23,24 86:22 96:18 97:25 98:25 99:6,10 99:20 101:10 101:17 103:9 103:23,24 104:8,18 108:3 108:5,5 109:9 112:3 113:7 114:22 115:6 120:3 122:5,6 124:5 144:15 144:24 146:18 150:2 153:19 156:16 157:7 160:12,14 161:1,6,12 168:11,16 175:8 177:4,5 177:8,12,14 178:10 179:20 180:17 183:5 188:1 189:15 190:3 191:14 220:12,13 221:3 240:9 242:1,25 243:1
Libyan 2:18 21:17 106:11 170:1,7 172:2 172:9 173:10 175:24 176:14 178:3 186:21 187:15 210:12 Libyans 1:22 2:8 4:5 6:10 13:13 14:17 15:20 16:7 17:15,23 18:4,4,9 19:23 20:2,5 31:21 33:2,3 34:1 35:9,19,23 38:1 49:22 62:2 73:7,18 84:23 85:8,13 85:14 86:20,25 87:4,15 93:1 107:15,24 142:5 143:14 144:4,10,23 145:14,16 149:17 150:10 151:3,5,10,17 152:9,17,17 153:24 161:15 163:5 167:24 169:16,22 170:9,13,22 171:4,14 173:21 175:6 175:21 178:13 178:16 179:23 180:11,11,24 181:6 182:15 185:6,7 190:17 201:3 219:25 lie 8:16,17,21 12:2,4,20,23 13:4 15:18,20 15:25 16:1,6 30:15,17 31:5 31:8 33:3,4,4,5 33:24 38:16,17 81:15,16,18 116:7,8,13,15 116:25 117:3 117:11,16,19 117:21 118:3 164:1,2 166:1 166:14,17,18 166:19 174:16 174:17 221:13 lied 15:24 lies 117:1 163:25 lights 128:24 131:12 likes 166:13 limit 146:24 214:17 limited 28:14 40:1 44:15 Lindsay 50:13 line 28:10 37:4
Day 5
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196:20 previous 45:19 57:4 160:22 230:7 previously 61:17 196:11 229:24 230:2 234:9,10 pre-dates 4:21 pre-emptively 245:1 pre-rents 44:25 pre-sales 44:24 pre-1999 227:16 price 3:5 15:11 23:14 25:4,5,7 25:8,10,19,21 25:22 26:10,12 28:13,20 29:25 30:6,14,20,21 31:7,9,13 32:20 33:8,18 34:8 35:9 36:11 37:8 44:11 45:8 50:3,4 51:12 51:13 52:12,15 52:16 54:4 55:19,20 58:4 58:10,10,11,18 58:20 59:1,1,3 59:5,6,8,16,20 59:24 60:8 61:3,3,4,6 63:3 64:4,14 65:8 72:15 73:2 74:7,7 75:10 76:11 80:14,20 81:5,9,11 89:12 97:2 111:19 122:7 165:3 175:12 212:10 217:15 pride 111:8,12 Prince 1:3 2:17 31:19 34:20,22 36:25 54:7 80:12 136:3,5 136:9,15,17 208:17,20 239:8,14,16 247:3 principal 112:21 112:22 principle 65:7,11 65:22 67:11,25 190:10 printed 237:15 prior 28:21 prison 133:4 166:8 private 22:6 115:8 120:21 219:19,23 220:2 223:7 privately 103:14 116:3,6,18
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projects 43:21 48:13 Prokhorovka 193:21 prominence 134:4,19 135:2 135:5 promise 62:13 promoted 12:13 prompt 147:2 prompted 222:9 pronounce 223:3 proof 240:12 241:5,5 242:3 proportionate 225:7 proposal 148:18 148:24 proposed 48:13 48:14,14 proposition 244:12 prospective 30:18 prove 75:13 174:20 proven 18:20 proves 93:24 provide 50:6 224:18 225:21 227:8 228:1,25 237:2 provided 26:1 42:17 47:8,17 49:15 58:1 213:6,12 237:2 237:3,7 prudent 47:11 public 135:14 publicised 134:25 publicly 40:16 40:23 118:2 pulled 62:6 punch 181:23 purchase 3:5,8 6:6 8:1,11 23:14 26:10,10 26:12 27:15,22 165:3 170:14 purchased 15:14 15:18 26:19 28:18 29:3 52:2 purchaser 30:18 41:25 42:3 45:3 239:3,5 purchasers 40:16 purchasing 45:22 purpose 93:18 106:2 107:8 137:4,17 150:12,20 purposes 149:18
150:1 233:25 pursuant 4:14 227:22 put 2:18,20 9:19 9:24 17:22 18:16 20:18 22:2 24:14,17 27:22 29:5 30:20 31:8 35:5 45:8 48:22 60:8 61:18 63:9,11 63:13 64:7 69:8 71:5 75:1 87:20 89:25 90:24 97:24 102:13,14,19 102:21 116:23 117:6,10 123:10 129:7 129:13,19 137:5 140:14 153:15 159:10 166:3 171:7,9 171:17 180:19 192:13 195:11 195:11 200:21 205:6 206:7,17 206:24,24 207:2,16 216:2 217:7 222:18 232:5 233:15 237:9 242:7 puts 87:24 putting 20:2 110:14 121:16 196:20 245:18 Pymont 130:4 194:9 237:16 241:11 244:15 244:16 246:11 Q qualities 220:18 220:21,23 question 10:25 17:4 18:24 26:18 31:14 32:10,12 34:25 47:17 49:10 54:20 57:11 59:20 62:21 63:23,25 70:6 70:19 71:2 73:17,17,19,24 75:24 77:15,15 77:16 79:8 84:7,8 85:4 86:7,12 88:5,7 92:3 94:19 98:6 106:22 108:13,14 110:7,9,14 116:23 117:12 117:17 141:14 142:25 151:15
151:20 155:2 157:14 158:14 159:6,10 178:20 186:17 191:13 193:4 197:20 199:18 206:14,17,19 207:3 208:23 216:13 217:21 240:15 241:6 243:8 questions 27:3 27:18 37:4,5 106:1 109:10 130:10,22 159:6,8 213:24 234:5 240:24 244:15,16,17 244:18 quickly 96:4 109:4,13 122:9 196:6 quid 146:7 241:20 quite 9:15 33:20 73:18 115:16 163:24 196:24 198:14 201:8 quo 146:7 241:20 quoted 40:17,23 R raised 118:9 199:18 raising 93:10 Rajab 238:25 240:8,11,16 241:2 Ramadan 25:3 ramifications 187:15 rapport 133:21 ratio 46:15 rational 189:22 rationally 189:22 Raytheon 28:22 reach 68:17,25 105:12 165:20 195:1 reached 65:6,22 67:24 147:10 157:10 192:8 194:18 212:7 react 31:25 32:1 189:22 reaction 119:24 132:20 read 1:10 7:20 67:22 75:24 83:11,12 94:8 95:7 100:3 101:2 113:18 113:22 136:7 138:1,3 182:17
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43:14 50:3 51:3,25 55:17 57:15,20 60:1 60:6,21,22 65:5,20 66:10 66:13,21,23,25 67:23 68:9,14 68:24 69:2,3 76:8 78:8 82:15,25 83:15 86:3 91:19 92:20 93:2,4 97:23 105:8,9 106:8,9,15,25 107:4 110:23 116:1,2 130:1 130:2 140:13 144:4 145:5 169:17 178:12 178:13 179:8 202:24 203:5 204:5,6 238:14 recalls 60:13 receive 170:12 183:7,23 210:2 212:5 received 14:19 21:13,20,24 92:19 93:14 94:13 170:12 170:21 179:10 196:2,3 212:11 242:20 receiving 142:20 recognise 37:11 37:15,17,20 105:5 recognised 37:18 80:20 112:21 recollection 57:22 62:17,19 62:22 63:8,11 63:14,17 64:1 64:2,4,7 65:9 65:17 66:19 67:3,9,13,15 78:14 105:24 109:20 recommended 99:19 reconciliation 123:25 124:12 reconfirmed 139:8 reconstruction 66:20 67:4 76:20 record 82:10 140:8 179:8 records 228:24 recounting 99:1 recourse 104:13 rectify 116:22 reduced 162:25 refer 3:23 82:16 83:1,16 86:4
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82:3 114:1,20 146:12 168:1 175:4 212:20 221:3 227:15 233:2,6 234:8 234:11,14 235:25 236:3 236:19 relations 135:14 relationship 54:16 69:22 70:3,11,12 100:5 118:14 118:20 119:13 133:2 134:1 143:20 147:1 169:13 170:9 relatively 161:14 release 15:6 113:17,19,25 136:11 144:5 145:20 169:17 released 23:10 149:24 179:7 179:11,12 244:19 relevance 129:16 relevant 28:13 227:10 228:20 228:21 233:2,7 234:8,14 235:25 236:3,5 236:11,20,23 reluctance 129:14 rely 34:16 35:1 185:21 remain 61:22 remained 168:12 remaining 196:2 remember 8:17 16:19 17:17 41:5 43:15 44:24 54:11 61:9 65:10,23 67:10 68:5,5 85:5 91:4,5,8 91:12,14,14 99:12 103:16 115:11 116:3 119:25 120:3 122:4 125:6 126:23,24 133:2 142:6,7 142:7 143:12 143:13,15 148:8 160:1,9 160:20 163:23 163:24 168:3 171:19 187:2 206:23 232:9 233:11 238:8 remembered 11:1 remembers 222:5
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reminding 245:10 remove 157:12 removing 157:14 remuneration 10:1 renege 15:7,21 16:7 35:23 177:11 reneged 9:19 20:9 36:1 reneging 18:14 104:15 rented 174:18 renting 174:12 repaid 10:4 repeated 142:14 Rephrase 110:9 replicated 233:24 reply 15:22 16:9 16:10 32:11 176:9 190:24 191:1 201:14 201:23 205:2 209:11 212:13 214:22 217:21 218:11 226:12 reported 90:3 repossessing 149:5 repossession 161:21 represent 172:3 242:25 representations 40:5,6,7,10,18 40:25 representative 178:5 representatives 7:25 represented 30:1 245:6 represents 25:10 25:22 32:20 33:8 37:8 reputation 30:22 30:24 31:2 36:7 175:6 request 57:24 106:6 176:19 196:5,18 223:20 228:19 requested 28:14 49:15 106:24 108:18 requests 212:5 require 1:14 required 90:25 225:8 228:5 233:20 requirements 187:11 requires 101:23 101:24
resolution 45:15 107:14 111:15 147:6 148:2 154:11 160:7 resolve 108:3,16 125:23 148:7 176:21 194:13 resolved 107:24 108:17 109:7 124:22 154:2 191:9 resort 168:8 173:3 respect 13:3,14 18:14 19:1 49:13 80:7 83:5 88:21 158:8 164:9 170:14 184:3 184:22 194:22 207:15 208:11 209:12 211:9 213:8 225:18 226:3 241:3 respected 193:24 respectively 245:9 respects 192:17 respond 170:16 176:6 196:12 197:1,21 199:6 205:23 206:16 208:19 210:21 responded 184:15 responding 97:7 176:8 response 9:25 29:9 74:15,18 96:11 99:13 124:6 139:14 182:7 183:14 183:19,22 184:19 198:14 199:18 208:13 212:12 213:19 213:23 228:15 232:24 responsibility 35:7 226:17 responsible 223:7 rest 20:10 42:22 177:11 restaurant 77:21 95:5 result 19:17 22:3 22:5 72:17 87:20 124:1 162:11 166:15 236:12 resulted 22:6 retain 114:3 120:16 retaliation 119:2 119:10
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SDN 26:7 sealed 171:15 search 223:8 225:7,10,13,18 227:1,3,5 228:21 229:1 231:12,12,14 231:16,18,25 232:1,6 233:4 233:22 234:3 searched 236:16 searches 232:17 233:20,24,25 Seasons 137:10 137:11 seat 120:8,9,11 148:9 second 9:21,23 12:17 21:5 38:16 56:14 66:19 83:12 91:5 117:3 122:3 129:4 147:10 148:16 148:24 151:20 155:19 157:8 157:12 182:2 194:25 195:19 202:22,24 217:16 222:25 223:13 227:13 234:5 245:2 seconds 131:19 206:14 section 182:25 234:5 secure 143:11 144:6,12 145:9 145:10,19 169:19 see 2:1 3:3,24 7:18 17:4 21:7 27:6 28:9 29:9 29:20 31:22 37:16 38:24 40:4,8 43:25 45:19,20 46:1 46:2 56:18 58:9,20 59:17 63:3 70:18 74:13 82:19,21 82:24 84:11 97:6 99:3,15 114:7,7,9 120:2 123:18 127:7,8 130:20 133:19,21 138:13 143:16 162:8,15,16 176:24 181:21 181:24 191:1 194:20 195:16 201:20 210:21 219:5 223:15 224:3 225:2,5 229:3,8,8,13
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229:17,24 231:9,13 234:15,21 235:1,2 240:3 246:18 seed 173:18 seeing 16:19 130:1 seek 148:6 173:4 seeking 4:9 14:21 141:10 141:21 197:14 203:12,24 seemingly 136:11 seen 4:11 8:23 48:21 51:7 75:21 112:20 119:9 129:21 129:24,25 131:17 159:25 160:4 162:10 182:8 199:16 208:7 219:25 236:2,9,23 sees 130:8 seize 119:1 seized 23:5 sell 1:12 3:25 5:6 6:2 11:18 26:9 30:13,13,21 31:12,13 51:18 51:23 52:6 54:11 60:24 61:2 64:13 71:7,14 77:8 205:15,21 seller 26:7,8,14 27:9 35:15 40:11 49:13 61:8 seller's 40:6 selling 34:16 54:3 send 64:21 152:1 224:24 sending 148:10 183:11 200:25 sense 80:2 112:25 163:12 194:7 212:19 237:11 sensible 160:19 193:5 245:22 sensibly 193:11 sent 7:8,13 8:17 14:6,25 16:17 16:21 20:17 25:2 61:19 71:3 94:12 95:9 144:21,23 144:24 151:16 162:4 178:4 184:4,5 200:8 205:13 210:5 224:14 232:7
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143:11,19,23 144:5,12,17 145:10 147:10 157:9 169:2,8 169:12,18 173:16 174:7 174:19 175:5 177:17,25 178:1,9,22 179:18,24 203:5,10 239:9 239:15,16,24 242:17 244:23 245:22 settling 22:7 seven 116:11 174:8 severely 162:25 shaking 115:14 shape 232:11,12 Sharab 5:16 24:25 28:5 29:11 49:8 55:11 70:4,5 71:9,15 88:24 89:3,15 92:15 94:9 95:14 96:16 99:4 105:4 118:13 120:12,19 121:3,8 122:13 122:17 123:19 132:22 133:12 133:19,22 134:4 135:1 139:3,4 144:4 145:9 147:13 148:6 158:21 158:25 159:16 159:19 160:5 160:23 167:23 169:17 182:9 182:15 185:5 195:19 205:12 212:3 218:16 218:20 225:19 228:17 239:22 241:3 242:20 Sharab's 71:10 162:6 237:25 share 45:24 46:5 shareholder 45:17 shareholders 45:15,23,25 53:6 shareholding 46:22 47:10 shares 26:15 39:21,22,25 40:12,16 41:11 41:12,15,19,22 42:1,3,5,15,19 42:22 43:3,6,8 44:9 45:22 46:3,5 49:3,5
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202:20 smiling 63:20 SMITH 1:5 2:17 3:10,19 4:3,7 4:14,21,25 6:12,16,21,24 7:1 8:22 9:1,5 9:13,15,21 10:5,10 12:5,8 12:10,12,16 16:17,21 18:23 19:10,13,21 20:12,16 23:1 23:12 24:4,8 24:11 27:5,11 27:22 33:6,12 33:16,20 34:4 34:15,22 35:11 36:5,21 46:9 48:22 54:23 59:11,14,23 60:2,4,10 66:4 67:19 72:14,19 72:24 73:15,23 74:2 75:17 76:3,6,20 77:13 78:8,13 78:17,21 79:9 79:16 83:9 84:7,13,17,24 85:3,18 86:17 87:1,3,11 88:11,18 89:21 90:23 97:19,22 98:17,22 99:1 99:12 100:1,9 100:16,20,22 101:13,20 102:4,9,12 103:3,24 104:6 104:23 105:2 105:16,21,25 108:6 110:9 111:7,20 112:2 116:15,23 117:6,10,15 118:20,25 119:5,8,12,18 119:20 120:1 121:12,15,25 124:23 125:3,9 125:14,20,25 126:8,12 127:9 127:18,22,25 128:5,7,24 129:2,7,9,17 129:20,24 130:3,5,10,17 130:19 131:4,9 131:17,20,24 132:3,6,8,12 132:15 133:5 134:9 137:22 138:1,4,10 151:20 152:11 152:15,24
153:3,25 154:20,24 155:2,4,6,8,10 155:13,17,25 156:4,14,22 159:5,12 163:10,23 164:6,13,16,22 165:7,11,18,22 166:11 167:3,6 167:9,12,21 168:18,23 171:16,22 172:4 178:8,11 178:15,21 179:2,6,9,12 179:16 180:2,4 180:9,14,22 181:12 182:20 185:9,18 186:5 186:16 187:12 187:20 188:5 188:13,19 189:2,7 190:2 190:25 191:12 192:9,22 193:1 193:3,17 194:8 194:10,24 195:9 198:13 198:23 199:2,5 199:8,24 200:3 200:5,9,13,16 200:19 201:4 201:17 202:2 205:6 206:3,7 206:23 209:8 209:16 210:13 211:12,15 213:16 214:1,3 214:16 215:6 216:9,12,18,22 217:23 218:2,8 218:12,14 219:11,16,21 219:24 222:4,8 222:18 223:9 223:11 226:17 226:22 227:2 227:13,21,24 228:3,13 232:8 232:12 237:10 240:15,19,25 241:10,14 243:15,19 244:2,9,11,15 244:17 246:13 246:17 snaps 222:18 snatch 119:10,10 snatched 156:17 sold 3:18 4:5 8:4 10:20,23 11:2 11:5,22 12:21 28:14 34:4 39:6 41:24 52:24 53:1
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solicitor 245:7 solicitors 28:5,5 29:10 49:6,8 184:6,15,15 200:22 207:1 209:19,20,20 210:9 228:16 235:21 solicitor's 209:18 212:15 solitary 231:6 solution 157:6 solve 123:2 solved 124:2,14 somebody 51:23 210:25 222:9 236:3 238:1,15 son 221:17 soon 18:3 23:2 176:20 sooner 153:11 sophisticated 34:3 sorry 33:6 59:13 89:21 101:25 111:10 191:12 195:9 205:5,24 211:7 219:13 222:2 242:6 sort 16:10 109:1 123:6 177:16 sorting 108:23 sought 69:24 106:12,13,21 108:1,2,15 208:12 228:8 228:16 sound 131:16 sounds 136:13 226:23 sour 86:25 source 229:1 so-called 114:19 speak 35:12 126:19 183:13 speaking 16:23 43:14 49:21 51:4 97:4,23 112:23 128:14 128:15 130:1 220:2 special 34:8 specific 32:18 82:18 83:3,18 203:8 227:20 228:7 specifically 65:5 67:23 68:9 86:3 94:15,24 109:11 196:10 speculation 76:7 speculative 76:20 spending 34:23 spent 28:25 29:21 42:24
45:7 spoke 141:21 153:19 spoken 57:21 spread 161:2,16 square 18:7 138:6 stabbed 88:14,19 133:6 177:20 177:23 186:2 187:13 210:11 210:13 213:18 213:22 214:11 stabbing 88:15 176:15 213:13 staff 131:5 133:20 136:10 148:13,13 156:10 177:6 196:22 212:20 235:12,18 236:3 stage 24:4 72:1 77:2 79:9 82:8 100:11 138:5 145:4 158:24 159:16 177:3 179:23 182:14 185:4 190:8 192:8 193:20 195:2 200:4 203:13,25 204:1,2,7 214:11 228:7,8 228:8 245:1,5 246:5 stages 154:9 228:6 Stalin 138:4,7,8 stamped 171:15 stance 111:9 167:15 191:21 stances 218:8 stand 158:22 170:6 175:23 176:14 standing 137:18 153:5,13 176:12,13 stand-off 152:25 154:13 stars 162:17 start 129:21 136:7 189:9 218:4 239:23 242:12 started 17:5 75:25 starting 185:25 starts 21:7,10 83:9 223:18 state 33:21 37:18 73:9 103:1 191:16 stated 28:20 57:25 96:3
169:25 statement 1:7 5:2 34:9 43:15 52:18,21 55:13 55:14 58:3,5 58:15 59:4 63:9,12,15 64:8,10,20,25 64:25 69:12 71:24 76:16 77:22 82:13 88:3 93:24 94:3,9,21 95:10,14,18,21 96:9 97:1,5,6,7 97:14,16,20,21 98:8,17 99:12 99:14 100:2,6 100:17,25 102:5,21 111:2 112:15 126:15 139:10 146:12 151:4,19 152:7 152:12,13 154:10 157:19 165:25 169:3,5 170:3 172:8 174:16 187:13 187:21 198:25 200:17,20 202:19,20 214:10 221:12 221:20 223:18 223:21 224:10 226:18 227:14 227:21 228:4 228:11 238:25 239:6 241:12 241:15,18 statements 1:9 44:25 45:2 163:25 213:20 222:15 States 118:11 stating 21:13 57:16 station 134:23 status 77:1 79:25 80:3 85:4 stay 129:1 146:13 staying 137:9,12 step 59:22 148:1 148:4 154:11 154:14 156:23 156:24 157:12 steps 50:7 51:5 147:5 157:9 174:23 224:8 224:15 stock 131:9 189:7 stoop 36:8 stop 75:5 147:21 156:15 218:1 stopped 74:6,9
74:25 75:4,6 76:1 110:3 118:16 stories 181:2 story 102:12 150:13 185:8,9 straight 16:13 17:7 19:24 38:2 42:6 167:13 straightforward 35:20 95:8 strategy 17:21 21:22 22:9,12 Strauss 233:21 straw 186:4,5,7 streets 175:10 strength 128:9 strengthening 37:21 strengths 244:24 strong 23:15 87:24 92:25 147:2 152:8 stunningly 245:14 subject 17:3 58:9 66:6 78:4 123:22 124:17 128:1 138:25 156:3 176:22 187:3 211:24 212:9 224:24 226:3 233:10 233:13,14 236:6 240:17 submissions 241:11 submit 226:20 232:1,4 subparagraph 184:11 subsequent 82:2 82:7 subsequently 96:18 99:5 181:4 subsidiary 26:16 substantial 29:13,20 substantially 86:24 186:24 substantive 193:14 substitute 217:15 success 139:6 successful 18:20 23:13 78:23 79:5 successor 228:19 suffered 14:18 15:11,14 22:10 114:19 162:8 162:11,14 suffices 212:21
sufficient 40:1 sufficiently 57:25 160:16 suggest 10:15 14:5 52:14 63:8 69:8 81:15 83:4,22 93:18 98:3 110:4 142:2 157:23 170:19 182:13 236:12 240:4 242:4 suggested 120:19 136:20 171:19 suggesting 12:20 67:8,8 81:19 83:24 84:17 85:23 109:12 124:24 185:3 238:12,13 suggestion 10:17 11:25 25:19 31:25 111:20 187:13 190:3 221:9 suited 39:5 Sultan 26:22,24 26:25 27:1 37:1 43:16 48:7 52:19 54:7,14,15 234:22 235:1,5 235:6,8,11,13 235:18 sum 7:18 152:19 161:8,14 183:16 184:21 185:1 195:1 208:24 212:7 212:21 summarised 110:25 244:9 summarising 78:9 summed 182:16 summer 1:11 2:7 3:25 5:6 208:10 sums 29:21 184:21 242:20 supervisor 50:16 supplement 101:3 supplemental 230:2 support 63:4 70:6 109:3 168:16 supported 70:8 supporter 112:13 suppose 91:3 191:21 217:2,3 supposed 18:10 94:20 150:22
170:4 172:2 sure 1:25 16:23 31:1,1 37:14 40:20,20 44:7 52:18 54:5 63:5,7,7,18 67:12 70:21 80:2 82:8 86:20 87:2,6 101:18 102:9 103:10,12 105:11 106:8 106:19 107:9 107:25 108:11 110:17 117:25 119:19,19 125:5,19 133:15 134:1,6 134:7,11 139:7 140:5,9,11 141:10 142:7 142:13 144:24 145:11 147:15 155:5,12,19 156:21 157:1 158:1 160:14 171:25 172:6 174:3,24 204:9 214:22 219:7 219:20,22,22 220:2,7 226:22 227:5,5 235:15 surely 179:19 201:5 surgery 243:24 surprised 25:4 surprising 170:3 214:7,8 244:13 surrendering 148:23 survive 35:17 suspect 126:15 192:15 suspicion 171:18 suspicions 171:23 suspicious 171:16 swiftly 54:13 switched 210:11 switches 176:9 switching 88:16 171:14 172:1,8 176:10,16 Switzerland 25:14 Systems 28:22 T tab 1:10 2:22,25 5:5 6:7 7:7 13:15 21:1,4 24:18 26:4 29:24 38:19,20 39:17 41:7 44:16,16,18
45:11 55:15,25 56:3,18,19,20 57:5,6,7 65:1 95:15,17 96:11 113:14,15 114:10 123:15 123:16 124:8,8 135:18,19 136:21 143:18 162:1 169:4 172:13,15 181:9,11,18 195:14 205:4,5 208:6,7,13 212:1 218:15 218:18,25 234:24,25 237:9,19 238:23 239:11 table 36:14 115:15 153:16 153:17,18 taboos 135:13 tackle 86:7 tactic 33:2,4,5 38:17 163:13 tactics 20:24,24 23:12 24:9,12 take 1:17 6:17 23:22 27:12 34:18,23 35:7 54:23 71:22 73:3,13,19 75:11,12 77:6 85:22 94:1,2 96:21 104:11 105:25 113:2 118:21 119:14 131:9 148:15 148:25 149:4 149:12 151:13 154:9 159:6 161:21 162:23 168:5,7 176:17 183:20 187:3 187:24 188:20 189:7 216:22 224:15,20 226:18 239:18 240:22 242:22 245:23 246:3 taken 27:19 50:7 51:5 60:17 107:11,12 126:5 147:6 151:23 159:21 172:23 218:8 takes 20:6,21 27:12 149:22 178:17 Talal 1:3 208:18 247:3 talk 32:18 67:2,2 73:7 74:1,6,11 75:7,9,13 77:3 77:4,7 78:16
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79:2 81:6 112:24 117:2,5 117:24 118:7 119:14 125:7 125:21 130:6 153:4 162:7,7 187:2 189:23 192:25 193:1 talked 74:10 75:10 81:8 117:24 118:2 talking 49:4 56:24,25 66:18 66:20 67:19,20 70:19 71:13 80:14,14,20,20 85:10 86:15 98:14 105:1 107:6,6 115:20 125:2 140:20 143:25 173:23 173:24 175:9 175:10 210:10 225:24 230:1 237:6 talks 28:12 84:10 99:15 115:13 234:2,3 task 194:12 195:24 team 4:9 132:8 teams 246:6 technical 166:22 technicality 64:16 technique 163:4 techniques 165:14,14,20 telecom 132:1 telephone 65:14 66:6 68:3 69:16 88:23 169:8 183:14 184:18 207:21 207:24 telephoned 139:4 140:1 telephoning 183:11 tell 14:2 16:2 33:14,21,24,24 34:16 35:1 36:16,21,23 37:12,15,17 47:12 59:24,25 76:22 77:17,22 82:6 98:18 99:2,7 103:6 103:25 104:2 104:14 105:22 117:13,20 125:15 126:22 128:16,20 129:11 131:22 163:25 167:13 175:9 181:1
187:7 191:15 200:19 201:17 201:23 202:2,7 204:9 209:8 210:3,6,13,15 213:17 214:13 224:8 243:19 telling 16:22 19:23 37:20 73:5 74:2,20 78:9,11 84:16 84:22 86:10 89:8 97:2 101:4,5,7 144:20 188:17 195:2 198:6 199:21 204:2 214:3 tells 10:7 ten 116:15 196:2 tense 105:19 118:24,25 tension 105:13 tensions 187:16 tent 68:2 100:11 115:25 116:5 116:11 117:4 117:25,25 118:1 120:20 120:22,23 132:10 term 81:18 198:19 termination 239:25 terms 123:23 124:18 189:12 210:10 testimony 213:6 240:6 245:12 Thank 191:6 244:19 thanks 139:5,25 thereof 21:19 thing 2:18 20:9 31:18 32:24 58:12 63:16 67:12 80:22,23 90:21 95:4 97:3,12 98:13 99:10 100:15 101:12 104:11 104:20 109:7 111:8 129:4 141:15 149:15 154:5 157:2,4 157:20 160:23 160:25 165:15 166:21 167:2,8 167:9,10 168:21,21,23 175:7,8 177:4 177:13 185:16 186:22,22 187:6,8,10,22 187:23 189:5
203:19 204:12 206:22 207:4 209:10 214:5 216:11 242:14 things 9:23 19:25,25 20:23 24:13 35:15 48:15 54:17 65:17 66:13 76:8 79:19,22 80:10,13 86:25 91:4 104:18 105:19 109:8 119:16 120:4,7 130:12 153:4 156:5,8 165:16 171:4 174:11 186:6 189:15 214:19 220:8 221:4 227:6 242:9 think 2:17 4:21 9:12,13 12:15 12:15 14:6,7 23:1 24:11 27:24 35:11 41:2,6,8 42:23 42:24 44:20 45:7 47:11,21 49:21 54:20 60:4,6,7,8,8,12 60:12 61:1,3 61:12 91:16 93:17 97:18 102:11,12 103:15,16 107:16 109:23 116:18 124:22 126:1 128:20 129:19,20 130:7,12 131:4 132:15 134:25 137:13 138:24 141:2 144:23 145:4 161:25 178:5 182:21 193:14,16,17 193:20 194:5 194:15 195:5 199:22 202:6 206:8,24 213:24 216:13 219:5 220:3 222:7 228:6 232:4 235:1 236:16 244:17 245:13 246:11 thinking 3:11 198:1 207:9 third 3:11 9:22 28:10 55:15 82:13,23 91:7 148:17 202:23 203:4 211:25 232:24 Thomas 246:9
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144:18 148:8,9 149:12,21 150:16 152:6 152:22 156:2,8 159:6 162:20 162:25 171:22 173:15 174:8 177:13 179:24 180:3 186:23 199:21,22 200:21 201:2 204:21 206:25 210:5 213:21 223:22 242:16 times 16:16 85:9 86:12 107:16 108:4,5 118:5 153:24 156:5 198:3 214:17 220:6,15,16,16 220:17,17 timing 2:5 tired 232:13 tiredness 232:10 title 240:5,9 TLT 49:6,7 228:16 232:24 today 92:18 128:21 186:1,1 188:8 193:20 194:19,20 206:4 210:3 today's 212:7 told 2:8 5:16 9:7 10:1 14:18 16:19,23,25 18:16 38:9 47:23 60:18 64:6 65:20,21 72:21,22 74:11 79:19,22 80:9 80:10 91:18,18 92:22 93:10 99:18 101:21 104:10,12,17 104:19 106:25 110:18 111:23 116:5 121:2 123:2,5 125:14 127:11 142:18 143:4,13 144:18,25 145:22 147:21 149:15 150:14 150:16 151:21 151:25 154:22 160:22 163:24 164:3,4 166:16 168:10 174:14 175:7 199:1,4 200:1,7,11,24 201:1,1,15 205:1 209:13 210:25 215:6,7 224:11,23 226:7,14,19,20
226:25 227:1 237:1 tolerating 115:17 tomorrow 244:21 246:18 tonight 127:24 128:3 tools 201:18 top 26:11 29:12 202:22 243:16 tortuous 165:24 total 196:4 touch 194:16 tough 126:20 Touscha 21:19 61:21 225:15 226:1 tower 32:7 toy 189:19 track 97:12 99:11 101:11 103:23 104:18 104:19 116:22 121:21,24 123:10 Trade 40:2 traditional 206:19 tragedy 168:23 168:25 train 127:25 transaction 68:24 144:3 169:15 transcript 78:8 163:19 transfer 26:15 39:21 41:4,11 41:12 43:3 60:15 94:2 145:17 170:17 transferred 41:16,18 43:5 49:12,16 143:8 149:8,8 178:24 178:25 179:1,5 179:14 183:5,6 transferring 179:25 translation 7:12 57:19 188:3 205:24 206:2 243:22 244:3 translator 206:3 243:17 244:1 transpired 146:23 travel 132:1 travelled 96:18 99:6 trial 73:16 79:13 125:10 126:9 192:23 245:7 tricky 87:4 tried 20:10
104:15 147:18 150:16 161:1 161:16,18 186:18 triggered 106:25 172:7 trip 103:9 105:11 156:24 Tripoli 100:8 147:8,11 148:3 155:21 157:11 176:23 trips 22:6 Trotsky 138:6,7 trotted 193:19 true 19:11 20:1 30:11 83:6 86:1 98:4 117:23 118:4 127:10 135:3 144:2 150:14 163:14 166:1 169:14 191:25 198:9 236:1,15 240:4 243:1 truly 75:21 truth 10:8 20:8 25:18 35:2 37:12,15,17,20 37:24 77:17 93:6 105:10 173:8 truthful 35:3 37:25 38:5 87:5 try 15:21 16:7 21:22 51:23 108:2,20 128:3 128:21 130:4 163:4 168:9 176:1 192:17 204:6,25 trying 9:17 14:9 59:9 72:25 100:24 125:22 126:19 154:6 168:1,12 175:11 176:10 177:3,16,18 191:2 200:1 201:22 220:23 227:18,18 Tuesday 1:1 turbulent 156:8 turn 52:3 54:22 106:3 128:24 131:12 227:12 turned 158:11 turning 23:20 turns 35:2 181:3 181:4 245:12 twice 16:24,25 151:15 190:22 twist 10:2 twisted 20:8 twisting-arm
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97 13:15,16,19 114:10,12 98 95:25 99:14

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Day 5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (10.00 am) Tuesday, 2 July 2013

Sharab v HRH Prince Alwaleed

Merrill Corporation (+44) 207 404 1400

8th Floor 165 Fleet Street London EC4A 2DY

Sharab v HRH Prince Alwaleed

Merrill Corporation (+44) 207 404 1400

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