Escolar Documentos
Profissional Documentos
Cultura Documentos
nd
2013
John Meglen
(CEO of Concert West division of AEG Live)
Ms. Stebbins: Defense calls John Meglen, your honor.
Judge: Just as an introduction, we've now begun the defense case, although the Plaintiffs
haven't formally rested because we have somebody we're calling back. But it doesn't matter,
we're going to present the defense witnesses.
Mr. Panish: They actually called two other witnesses out of order.
Judge: True. Sometimes these things get jumbled up.
Mr. Putnam: But now we're starting.
Judge: Right. I just wanted to let you know that.
The clerk: Sir, can you please state and spell your first and last name for the record.
The witness: John, j-o-h-n, Meglen, m-e-g-l-e-n.
The clerk: Thank you.
Judge: Thank you. You may begin.
Q. And do you have any businesses besides concert tours? For instance, festivals or
residencies?
A. Concerts West also watches over the Las Vegas business for AEG Live, which consists of
the coliseum at caesars palace and the joint at the hard rock hotel and casino, and
occasionally a few other properties in Las Vegas where we've done some residencies.
Q. And is there other business that AEG Live does that's not done under the Concerts West
division?
A. Yes. A. .E.G. Live has regional offices, has some additional touring divisions, and that's
pretty much it.
Q. Now, you said that Mr. Gongaware is your Co-CEO of Concerts West. Do you and he
have the same job?
A. Not exactly.
Q. Tell us -- we've heard a bit from him about what he does. What's the difference between
what you do and what Mr. Gongaware does?
A. Paul works on specific tours, and -- whereas I am pretty much the office guy and I'm -- I'm
in the office most of the time, and watching over all of our different tours and our -- and our
different artists that we are touring.
Q. Now, does Mr. Gongaware even have an office at AEG Live?
A. No, he does not.
Q. And do you and Mr. Gongaware typically work jointly on tours, or do you have kind of a
divide-and-conquer philosophy?
A. Our philosophy is more we split things up between the two of us of who is going to watch
over what in terms of which tour, you know, we're both going to -- we're each going to take
care of.
Q. And let's talk a little bit about your background. How long have you been in the concert
business?
A. I started in 1978 in Seattle, Washington, at another Concerts West; and so I guess I've
been pretty much just doing concert tours for 35 years.
Q. Were you in college in Washington state?
A. I went to college at Washington state university, yes.
Q. And were you at that point studying to be a concert promoter?
A. No; I was studying to be a veterinarian.
more doing stagehands and catering and making sure that there were towels in the dressing
room.
Q. So you were the junior guy. Was Mr. Gongaware also a junior guy?
A. No; he was my senior back then.
Q. So did you work together with him at Concerts West?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what kinds of work did you do in that time period, just generally?
A. Back then we did the bad company desolation angels tour, we did the commodores
heroes tour, we were in the process of putting a led zeppelin tour on sale when John Bonham
passed away, so that tour did not happen, but Paul and I worked as a team on a couple of
tours before I graduated to become a senior myself.
Q. And just to give us an idea of the time period, when was this that you're starting work at
Concerts West and working with Mr. Gongaware?
A. I believe it was in 1978.
Q. And did you eventually graduate from being the -- the junior guy to being a senior guy?
A. That was the general pattern back then. You would start as a tour production guy and then
you would work your way into being more of a settlement guy, someone that handled more of
the finances.
Q. And when you say "settlement guy," what do you mean?
A. The settlement person is -- today we have separate tour accountants that do that. Back
then, we really didn't have separate tour accountants, but that was the person who would
settle the box office in terms of the tickets sold versus the tickets unsold, the expenses,
everything from hall rentals to all of the different bills, marketing bills, advertising bills, things
of that nature.
Q. And did there come a time when Mr. Gongaware left Concerts West while you were still
working there?
A. Yes. Paul always wanted to work in the movie business, and
our boss at the time was doing a movie called "diner," and so Paul took a leave of absence to
go be a production assistant on "diner" in Baltimore.
Q. So Mr. Gongaware left Concerts West to go put his toe into the movies?
A. He always wanted to work on movies, and he took a very big pay cut to go and be
involved in working on a movie production.
Q. And I'm going to cover more of your background, but when is the next time that you
worked with Mr. Gongaware again?
A. Paul and I didn't actually work together again until we formed our company. We may have
done a couple of little projects. Paul was actually running warren miller ski films for a few
years; and I helped him with a couple of, you know, home videos, "learn to ski," "learn to ski
better," home videos like that. But we really didn't -- those were just small one-off projects.
We really didn't work together side by side until we formed our new company.
Q. Do you remember approximately when Mr. Gongaware left the old Concerts West?
A. Early '80's, and I'm guessing.
Q. And then when did you form the new Concerts West with him?
A. Not until approximately '98. '97, '98, somewhere in that time period.
Q. So maybe 15 years, you were not really working together?
A. Yes. We were always friends, but we were not working together.
Q. So after Mr. Gongaware left Concerts West, did you still work at Concerts West Seattle?
A. Actually, I moved from Concerts West in Seattle in around 1980 down to the Los Angeles
offices and stayed there up until 1990.
Q. And what kind of work did you do during that time period?
A. Mainly tours. I oversaw -- we also had a management company at that time, so we could
either be a promoter sometimes or be the management rep sometimes. But my job was really,
even if we were on the management side, to still watch over the tours.
Q. And we've heard some discussion in this case about concert production versus concert
promotion versus management. What is your background?
A. My background is concert promotion. Pretty much, you know, a small bit of management
for a while, and -- and some experience on the producing side, but predominantly the concert
promotion side.
Q. And as between you and Mr. Gongaware, who has more experience with concert
production?
A. Paul definitely had more experience than I on production. Paul is more of a -- he's a techie
by nature, he's kind of a production guy by nature. It's -- it's -- you know, it's what he's always
been into.
Q. And you said you worked with Concerts West up until 1990. Can you just give me a brief
kind of sampling of the acts you worked with?
A. John Denver, Neil Diamond, the Beach Boys, three dog night, the eagles, the moody
blues, Eric Clapton, the commodores, bad company, the bee gees. Many, many different
artists.
Q. And did there come a time when you left Concerts West?
A. Yes. I left concerts -- I left Concerts West -- well, actually, it wasn't even Concerts West at
that time. It was called the Weintraub Entertainment Group. And I left that company at the end
of June 1990.
Q. And what did you do at that point?
A. I went to work for a man Michael Cole, a company called B.C.L. In Toronto, and took a job
as a director of touring for his company.
Q. And what did -- what did B.C.L. Stand for?
A. Ballard Cole Labatz (phonetic).
Q. And what did you do at that company?
A. I was the director of touring.
Q. So was it also a concert promotion company?
A. Yes, it was a concert touring company.
Q. And what kind of work did you do there?
A. There we planned and routed worldwide tours for different artists, did everything from
building deals to advertising to ticketing to all of the things that a promoter does.
Q. Were there any differences between what you did at B.C.L. From what you did at
Concerts West in terms of the core sort of work that you did?
A. It was generally known in the business that Michael Cole kind of took the touring to
another step. Michael started adding in revenues of merchandising and some sponsorship
and some broadcast revenues into his deals. The business was getting a little more
sophisticated and a little more complex.
Q. What do you mean by "merchandising"?
A. Well, in the original days we simply sold tickets, we paid the expenses that night, and what
was left over would be split between the artist and the promoter. Later on, they started -- you
know, the merchandising business became a more sophisticated business trying to find tour
sponsors, people of that -- you know, trying to see if you could do a broadcast of one of your
shows, other things that would generate revenue, you know, to, in a sense, collateralize your
risk that you had with the artist.
A. I was solicited by Michael Cole and a man named Arthur Fogel to come work with them.
They had just acquired -- prior to that they had acquired the rights to do the rolling stones
steel wheels tour. That was really the first tour that they had done. They weren't touring guys,
per se. They were more local promoters in the Canadian marketplace, but they wanted to go
into the touring business. So their line back then was, "if we're going to go into the touring
business, we should hire a Concerts West guy."
Q. I thought I asked how you came to leave. Did you just tell me how you came to start
working there?
A. How I came to start working there?
Q. Yes.
A. At B.C.L.?
Q. Yes.
A. Yeah, that was how I came to start working there.
Q. Can you give me a sampling of the tours that you did while you were there?
A. We did numerous rolling stones tours. We did voodoo lounge, we did urban jungle, we did
the Pink Floyd division bell tour, Paul Simon born at the right time, David Bowie sounds and
vision, Bowie nails, Bowie Morrissey, began working on the first U2 tour that the company did,
but actually left prior to that tour beginning.
Q. You said you think you left in early 1997?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you do next?
A. I was approached by a company based out of Houston, Texas, named pace, p-a-c-e.
Q. Is that the salsa company?
A. No. I think it actually stood for promotions, assemblies, conventions and exhibitions. It was
a company that I was told originally started by doing the auto show, and I think a boat show at
the Houston Astrodome.
Q. And what did pace want to hire you for?
A. Pace at that time had a number of regional offices in North America, and they owned a
number of amphitheaters across North America, and they -- they felt that they wanted to be in
the touring business. So the man who ran the company was a man named Brian Becker, and
Brian started calling me and asking me if I would like to join them and start their touring
company.
Q. Did there come a time where you wanted to do something other than hang out in
Montana?
A. Yeah. I mean, I was approached by Paul Gongaware to say, "hey, why don't we go start up
our own company and we'll be the other guys, we'll be the little guys, you know, taking on the
big corporations?" just wanted to be the little boutique guys.
Q. Now, we've heard a little bit about the rivalry between AEG Live and LiveNation, its
competitor now. Are you trying to catch LiveNation as -- to be the largest concert promoter in
the united states?
A. No, not as far as I'm concerned, and not as far as other people in our company are
concerned.
Q. Who is bigger, you or LiveNation?
A. Livenation has a bigger concert company, so LiveNation is bigger than AEG Live in terms
of the concert business, but AEG, the parent company, is bigger than LiveNation. A. Lot of
people get that confused.
Q. Are you in any way desperate to become bigger than LiveNation?
A. No, I don't -- I actually don't think being number 1 is a good position to be in.
Q. All right. Why not? I would think number 1 would be the best to be.
A. Kind of the avis theory. We're quality over quantity. We try to, you know, be better. That's
kind of our thing. We'd rather do a fewer number of really good things than have to try and
own everything.
Q. All right. So Mr. Gongaware comes up to you and says, "let's start a company," and you
say yes?
A. I was a little cautious at first; but yes, I did say yes. I was a little nervous about being a
little guy taking on the big guys.
Q. And what company did you eventually start?
A. We formed Concerts West.
Q. And -- and when was that?
A. '98, I'm guessing -- yeah, '98, maybe the end of '97, right around there.
Q. Was Concerts West successful right away?
A. What?
A. "O," the Cirque show at Bellagio in Las Vegas. And so it was this marriage between Celine
and this great director, and we thought it would be a winner.
Q. Had you ever done a Vegas show before?
A. No. We'd done concerts in Vegas on our tours, but had never produced a vegas tour -- a
Vegas show before.
Q. So that was a new kind of business for AEG Live?
A. Yeah, it was pretty much considered a -- you know, the -- the residency as we look at it
today in the music industry did not exist really up until Celine.
Q. And by "residency," what do you mean?
A. Residency is where the artist's in one place and the audience comes to them instead of
the artist going everywhere to them.
Q. And was Celine's show the first residency that AEG Live did?
A. Yes.
Mr. Panish: Excuse me. Just -- can we get the year?
Judge: You mean of the first residency?
Mr. Panish: When he keeps saying that, I'm not sure what year we're talking about.
The witness: I think we opened in 2002, I'm guessing, maybe -- yeah, I think it was 2002.
Mr. Panish: Thank you.
The witness: I'm terrible with years, but it was probably within a year either side of that.
Judge: This is the Las Vegas residency?
The witness: The Las Vegas show, correct.
Q. So your first show in the early 2000's in Las Vegas that you opened with Celine Dion, you
think 2002?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you done more residencies since then as a company?
A. We've mounted a total of eight shows at the coliseum, we've mounted four or five at the
joint at the hard rock, we have done a couple at the Paris hotel, Barry Manilow and now a
new artist named Veronic. I think she's at Bally's, actually. We've done a few others, dancing
with the stars at Tropicana and America's got talent at the venetian.
Q. Any other kind of solo artist like Celine Dion?
A. Yes. We've done Elton John, rod Stewart, Cher, Bette Midler -- missing somebody -- jerry
Seinfeld.
Q. And who now is responsible, for lack of a better word, for sort of managing these Vegas
shows for AEG Live?
A. I still am.
Q. So you -- you're in charge of all of those?
A. Yeah. I've got really good people, but -- yes, I -- those are -- yeah, I'm responsible for
those shows.
Q. So at some point did someone else come in to be the sort of CEO of AEG Live?
A. Randy came in as the CEO of AEG Live about a year
and a half, two years into the existence of AEG Live.
Q. And when, about, was that?
A. It was right around the opening of Celine, so -- I remember he started literally right before
we opened Celine, a week or two. So I think that was may of 2002 somewhere. Again, I'm not
good with dates.
Q. And what was Mr. Gongaware's role in this time period while you were sort of working on
the Vegas shows and dealing with some of the touring business?
A. Well, the year we were opening up the Vegas show, Paul actually did have to come into
the office and have an office there because he kind of kept track of touring properties while I
was in Vegas.
Q. And by "touring properties," do you mean a show?
A. Other tours that we were doing at that time.
Ms. Stebbins: Now I want to turn back to something you said a moment ago. And it might be
better to go into this after the break, because I was going to ask you about the Fukuoka
shows.
Judge: That's fine. Actually, my staff has asked for a longer break,
So 3:30. 3:30, come back.
Mr. Panish: Your honor, I didn't know if you wanted to address the issue with Plaintiffs.
Judge: Okay. We'll do it right now. So back at 3:30.
(the following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jurors):
Judge: Okay. You wanted to talk?
Mr. Panish: Yes, your honor. Numerous issues. But number 1, I was given -- we were given
some exhibits from Ms. Bina this morning, and I'd like to go -- does the court have a copy?
Judge: No.
Mr. Panish: Okay. Well, I think it might be helpful if you did. First of all, this witness is not
designated as an expert witness. I believe that he's going to try to give expert witness
testimony.
Ms. Stebbins: He's not.
Mr. Panish: And I can see it through the exhibits and through -- if we take a look, let's just
start with the expert testimony. The first is the exhibit number defense 1328, which is Mr. Erk's
projections.
Mr. Putnam: I'm going to get those for you, your honor, if I can step out one second? I think
they just walked out with them. Is that all right, your honor?
Judge: Yes.
Mr. Panish: The first one -- I can give you mine. Summary of economic projections given by
Mr. -- this is the first one, the summary of Mr. Erk's projected calculations. And as you recall,
Mr. Erk is one of our experts; and I assume he's going to try to address that. But that would
be falling in the realm of expert testimony. He's not been designated nor have we had the
opportunity under Bonds versus Roy to depose him or know what he's going to say on these
issues regarding expert testimony. That's the first exhibit. But that also ties into numerous
other exhibits that I expect they're going to try to use, because -- I haven't been told what
they're going to use them for; but, for example, performance capacities of U.S. Arenas, U.S.
Stadiums, rose bowl capacities, all of these which would be beyond the knowledge of an
ordinary person requires some kind of expert testimony for an expert to know this. Now,
they're going to say, "oh, this is just percipient knowledge," but it isn't percipient knowledge
because an expert can tell you what's seating capacity, what's the difference between what
Plaintiffs -- and it says Plaintiffs' claimed capacity, performance capacity, so what he would be
doing would be trying to rebut testimony given by Plaintiffs' expert. Now, they have two
experts in this case, neither one of them address these issues, and Mr. Erk was deposed
before their two economists. And one, Mr. Briggs, who's other issues, is coming tomorrow. So
that. Then we have Mr. Erk, another exhibit, 13129, which not only was from Mr. Erk, but it
also deals with post-death estate issues which the court has ruled are not admissible in this
trial. It's also expert testimony on -- you don't have that exhibit -- do you have that exhibit? So
I can see where this is going. We also have -- he's trying to qualify him as an expert, and I
can see where this is going. We also have exhibit number -- these schedules -- I mean, I
guess he can talk about the schedules. But we have exhibit number 4501, an email between
Mr. Phillips and a gentleman from Japan dealing with the stadiums in Japan which he's not on
the email.
Defendants. He's rebutting with expert testimony what Plaintiffs' expert testified.
Mr. Boyle: On the blue ones, your honor --
Ms. Stebbins: Your honor --
Mr. Panish: The blue ones -- excuse me. I didn't interrupt you. That's what he's trying to do.
Now, when we deposed him, he didn't talk about any of this; and, also, some of these emails,
he knew nothing about. So now we're going to need the backup and all this stuff to get into
this where they have a tour expert and they have two economists. They chose none of them
to address this, so now we haven't had an opportunity to get any of the backup, and we just
lay it on this -- this is an expert. "what can you set to show up for?" that's expert testimony.
That doesn't mean different people don't do it differently. In his opinion, that's what it is.
Because in the -- now, how do I cross-examine? I can now take off the internet and have --
he'll deny everything that I'm going to show him? How can I cross-examine the expert now
when this shows up at this section -- remember, they had Mr. Erk's testimony for months, and
now today for the first time, they show up with these exhibits. They've known this all along,
and now this witness is going to come in and testify, Mr. Meglen -- I don't have any way to
cross-examine him. I don't have the backup from AEG, I only have what Mr. Erk has done.
They haven't chose to do that with their experts, and so now I don't have any way to get the
information in to cross-examine this witness who shows up at the last minute. And if you look
at the exhibits, it says Plaintiffs' claim, and now he's rebutting it with his claim.
Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, we'll -- sorry. I thought you were done. We'll readily admit that he
is rebutting Mr. Erk. You don't have to be an expert to rebut expert testimony.
Judge: I'm overruling your objection. But I do have a concern about why are we using this
document?
Ms. Stebbins: Only the pages that are pertinent, your honor. Literally I'm going to throw up
the pages that Mr. Erk got from Wikipedia; and as to the tours, for instance -- he talked about
where Mr. Jackson's tours fell on this continuum of tours. I'm going to ask Mr. Meglen about
some of those tours that he was personally involved in promoting. I will lay a foundation for all
of that and explain how it's relevant at the time. And I can basically lay it out now, but it's --
your honor, he's going to testify about tours that he promoted personally.
Judge: I understand that. But this is -- isn't this the "This Is It" tour?
Mr. Panish: No.
Ms. Stebbins: No, your honor.
Mr. Panish: That's our Plaintiffs' damages calculations.
Ms. Stebbins: That's Mr. Erk's damages calculations, your honor. And I'm not going to be
going through the allocations with the witness, I'm going to be going through some of the
factual foundations for Mr. Erk's testimony. For instance, Mr. Erk testifies that this stadium has
an 80,000-person capacity.
Judge: Right. That's what you're going to use this for, right?
Ms. Stebbins: Exactly. "you've personally promoted a show. Could you put 80,000 people in
it? How many people did you fit into that particular stadium? What were the reasons for that?"
I will also be using another page in there, your honor, which is the list --
Judge: I don't know how that -- how that ties into this. That sounds like an argument to make
at the end of the case.
Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, I can explain. And it's literally just one page that I'm using. Let me
try to pull it.
Mr. Panish: Your honor, how do I cross-examine?
Mr. Putnam: Your honor, he went up on Wikipedia, says, "here are all the facts," and
represented that these are facts on which he was basing his opinion. So what we're doing is
someone who actually worked on several of those --
Judge: I'm agreeing with you. I just want to know why it is that we're --
Ms. Stebbins: It's a specific page, your honor, exhibit -- it's page 12128, dash -- not 5,
actually, it's the next one. Sorry.
Mr. Panish: Your honor, I want the backup for this to be able to cross. This is quasi expert
testimony. I'm unduly prejudiced to cross-examine this witness, and I would like all the backup
from him that supports this. He can just say -- how do I cross-examine the witness on that?
They deposed Mr. Erk on all these issues and found out what his basis was. I don't have any
of the backup to cross-examine this witness. So if he's going to be allowed, I want him to
bring down the backup that I can have to review and effectively cross-examine the witness
because it is quasi expert testimony. Those exhibits are rebutting Plaintiffs' expert testimony
and Plaintiffs' claim -- I've only seen it for a minute; but what it says on there, how do I cross-
examine effectively this witness that shows up today for the first time with these exhibits?
They've had Mr. Erk's testimony for months, they've never had any of these exhibits on the
exhibit list, I've never seen them before today. How do I cross-examine this witness? That's
the purpose of expert designation and disclosure.
Judge: What page of this are you using?
Ms. Stebbins: Sorry. The page I'm using is 9 and 10, the highest grossing tours of all time
chart from Wikipedia. I'm basically using it as a demonstrative for the witness, your honor, to
ask him which of these tours he's been involved in. I'm not using the calculations --
Judge: He's involved in --
Ms. Stebbins: He's been the promoter for about 13 of these.
Judge: The primary --
Ms. Stebbins: The primary promoter. We'll go through that, your honor.
Judge: Okay.
Ms. Stebbins: The other issues, your honor, just for the record, Plaintiffs deposed every
single AEG Live witness before they designated any experts. They never asked them
anything about the touring industry, anything about touring capacity. Instead, they got a guy
who goes on Wikipedia and looks thing up. The witnesses are allowed to offer facts that
counter the foundational facts of their expert.
Mr. Panish: Your honor, we asked this witness about this specific email, and he knew
nothing about it. Had never read it, and knew nothing about it, and they're trying to use it with
the witness.
Judge: What's the situation --
Mr. Boyle: Your honor, this is exhibit 31, which is 31, dash, 1, through 31, dash, 7. This was
the AEG E-mail that attached their budget for a world tour for Mr. Jackson where they had all
these different cities. Mr. Meglen was asked specifically about it, and he said he knew nothing
about it.
Mr. Panish: And "I don't recall it, it doesn't refresh my recollection, I wasn't involved at that
time, I don't know what Mr. Gongaware was referring to." I showed him the next page, doesn't
refresh his recollection. None of that. Now they're going to come in and try to go to the world
tour projections with this witness who testified he knew nothing about it.
Ms. Stebbins: I'm not, your honor, actually. I'm only going to ask the witness basically what
he was asked at his deposition, it was a little bit more. I believe I'll lay a foundation for all of it.
If they believe it's inconsistent with his deposition, they're welcome to cross-examine on that
basis; but he is on the email and it's in evidence.
Mr. Panish: Not on all of it. Not on part of it.
Ms. Stebbins: I will not be asking him about the portions he's not on.
Mr. Panish: Here we go. He's going to give this expert-type testimony, and they say we
asked him specifically this information in the deposition. He knew nothing about it and wasn't
involved.
Judge: So impeachment, is what it comes down to. You have impeachment.
Mr. Panish: How do I effectively cross-examine a witness --
Judge: I think you know. I think you know. All right. I'm overruling the objection.
Ms. Stebbins: May I have more than three minutes to run to the lady's room?
Judge: Yes, you may.
(Break)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jurors):
Judge: Katherine Jackson versus AEG Live. We have appearances of a couple of counsel
who want to make their formal appearances.
Ms. Stebbins: Jessica Stebbins Bina for the defense.
Mr. Mrkonic: And Matthew Mrkonic for defense.
Judge: Thank you. Let's continue.
Ms. Stebbins: Mr. Meglen, I think where we left off, I was about to go back in time to when
you were working for -- I believe it was for pace when you worked with Mr. Jackson in
promoting a portion of the "History" tour.
The witness: Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Stebbins: So start at the beginning.
Q. Before "This Is It," had you ever worked with Michael Jackson?
A. Once, yes.
Q. In what capacity?
A. As a consultant to a firm in Japan who wished to promote Michael Jackson in Fukuoka,
Japan.
Q. And what was the venue, if you recall, in Fukuoka?
A. It's called the Fukuoka dome or twin dome, something. There was some funny names. But
basically it's the -- the small domed baseball stadium that the daiei hawks play in.
Q. And how many shows did you promote for Mr. Jackson there?
A. Two shows.
Q. And when were those shows?
A. They would have been in the first year of pace touring. Well, I know they were over
Christmas. They were the 24th and the 26th of December, 1997.
Q. If I said 1996, would that sound possible for you?
A. Yes.
Q. So either 1996 or --
house by giving tickets away and papering, what we commonly call papering the house,
Or you can take pipe and drape and curtains and things like that and cover the empty seats
so they're not seen.
Q. So let me understand it right. If a show doesn't sell like a promoter hopes it will, you're
saying you can do one of two things, you can hide the empty seats or give the extra seats
away?
A. Correct.
Q. And which one happened in Fukuoka?
A. We pretty much hid the empty seats.
Q. But in any event, Wikipedia is not right about the shows selling out?
A. No. I don't use Wikipedia as a source of my business.
Q. Now --
Mr. Panish: Move to strike, it's nonresponsive. The question is, is it accurate or not. Whether
he uses it as a source or not is not the question.
Judge: Overruled.
Q. Now, when you saw Mr. Jackson on "History," and I know it was just for a moment, did you
see any signs that he was under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether or not Mr. Jackson had a doctor traveling with him?
A. No.
Mr. Panish: No foundation.
Judge: Overruled.
Q. You just -- you don't know one way or the other?
A. I don't know, no.
Q. Other than working on those two shows in Japan on "History," did you work with Mr.
Jackson again before the "This Is It" tour?
A. On -- I worked with Michael Jackson on the Fukuoka, Japan, shows; and then met with
Michael Jackson later in 2007 in a meeting with his representative Peter Lopez at that time.
Q. And that's what I was going to turn to. Now, we've heard some testimony about those
2007 meetings, but I want to ask you a few things about them. At some point after AEG Live
was formed and running as a company, and you and Mr. Gongaware were Co-CEO's of
Concerts West division, did you meet with Mr. Jackson to discuss possibilities for Mr. Jackson
working again?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. When was that?
A. That would have been in, I think, 2007. Again, I'm not -- we met at the wynn hotel in Las
Vegas, was the very first meeting.
Q. And you just mentioned Mr. Peter Lopez. Who was Mr. Lopez at that time?
A. Peter Lopez was Michael's attorney.
Q. And did you know Mr. Lopez?
A. Yes, very well.
Q. And was he someone that had negotiated a lot of concert tour agreements?
A. We did the Bocelli concert with Peter Lopez. That was the first concert Peter was andrea's
attorney, and so the -- really the -- the first true tour that we did prior to AEG, that Paul and I
did at Concerts West, we did with Peter Lopez, and it was the Andrea Bocelli tour.
Mr. Panish: I object move to strike as nonresponsive. The question is was he someone that
negotiated a lot of tour agreements. That was the question.
Judge: Sustained.
Ms. Stebbins: Do you know whether he --
Judge: The answer is stricken.
Ms. Stebbins: Do you know whether he negotiated other tour agreements besides the one
that you just cited?
Mr. Panish: Objection; foundation.
Ms. Stebbins: I'm asking whether he knows, your honor.
Judge: Overruled. You may answer.
The witness: Peter managed Glenn Frey of the Eagles and was involved in negotiating their
tour agreements.
Q. And since it was just stricken, I have to ask you again, did you ever personally negotiate
with Mr. Lopez regarding a concert deal prior to this time?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what was that?
A. The Andrea Bocelli tour.
Q. And that, I think you said, was the first -- one of the first tours that you did as Concerts
West?
A. Correct.
Q. In your experience, was Mr. Lopez skilled at his job?
A. Pardon me?
Q. In your experience, was Mr. Lopez skilled at his job?
A. Yes, very.
Q. Now, you said Mr. Lopez called and asked you about this meeting. Did he tell you in
advance what the meeting was going to be about?
A. Peter, when he called regarding going to meet with Michael in Las Vegas, it was about
letting him know what AEG Was about.
Q. So you understood it was a time for you to come and make a presentation to Mr. Jackson
about AEG Live?
A. Absolutely.
Q. Did he tell you at that point that Mr. Jackson wanted to work live, or was it more open-
ended?
A. No. It was more open-ended.
Q. And did you eventually -- you eventually wound up meeting with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. And you said you thought it was early 2007 at the Wynn hotel in Las Vegas?
A. Correct.
Q. Who was at that meeting that you can recall?
A. It was myself and Paul Gongaware, Peter Lopez, a lady named Raymone Bain, and she
had another lady that worked with her, I cannot remember her name.
Q. And did you have an understanding as to Raymone Bain's role at this time?
A. She introduced herself as Michael's manager.
Q. And she did that with Mr. Jackson present?
A. Yes.
Q. So did you have any reason to doubt that was her role?
A. No.
Q. And, you know, at this point in time -- well, I guess tell me about the meeting. What
happened?
A. Paul and I arrived at the Wynn hotel. We called Peter, he came down and met us and then
took us upstairs to the room.
Q. Did Mr. Jackson recognize you when he saw you?
A. No; he recognized Mr. Gongaware.
Q. And how do you know Mr. Jackson recognized Mr. Gongaware?
A. When we walked in the door with Peter, Michael came out of the bedroom and saw Paul
and said, "Paul Gongaware. Paul Gongaware. Whenever I saw Paul Gongaware, I knew
everything was going to be okay."
Q. And --
A. And then he said, "How is Brigitte?" which was Paul's girlfriend at the time.
Q. So how did you go about trying to convince Mr. Jackson to do -- do a deal with AEG Live?
A. I brought three what we call sizzle reels on the company with me, along with kind of our
company brochure.
Q. And was the goal of this to convince Michael Jackson to hire
A. .E.G. Live to produce a concert for him?
A. Well, it was to show Michael the breadth of AEG And, you know, some of the cool projects
that we were involved in and what we did so that, you know, he would -- if he did work, that,
you know, we hopefully would be the company he'd work with, or he'd think about us.
Q. So is that a yes, you were trying to get him to pick you?
A. Yes.
Q. And just very briefly, you said "sizzle reels." what's a sizzle reel?
A. A sizzle reel is a three- to five-minute D.V.D. That highlights the different projects that the
company has going on.
Q. And do you remember how Mr. Jackson reacted to the sizzle reels at the time?
A. Yes, very much.
Q. And how was that?
A. He was very excited.
Q. Now, one thing I meant to ask you at the beginning, how did Mr. Jackson look to you when
you saw him?
A. He looked great. He was full of energy, he seemed taller to me, a firm handshake, and just
-- he was there, he was -- he was very, very excited about everything.
Q. And how long was this first meeting?
A. Maybe two hours, hour and a half to two hours.
Q. Did Mr. Jackson seem in any way under the influence of anything, drugs or alcohol?
A. No.
Q. No signs of that?
A. No.
Q. Now, did you bring anything with you to the meeting besides the sizzle reels?
A. A company brochure.
Q. And what was the company brochure?
A. It captures all of the different entities of AEG, whether it be sports, venues, the Vegas
properties. At that time, we had an exhibition business, a lot of our different businesses, and it
was to show Michael those.
Q. When you said AEG At that point, are you talking about the parent company of AEG Live,
AEG Corporate, for lack of a better word?
A. Well, there were three sizzle reels. They were the AEG Live sizzle reel, they were the AEG
corporate sizzle reel, and the third one was the Walden film sizzle reel, which is a sister
company.
Q. And by "sister company," you mean not a part of AEG Live, but an affiliate of it?
film company?
A. Correct.
Q. And so were they brought to discuss this sort of film aspect of this miniseries?
A. Yes, because they were probably -- we did not really have any television development
organization within AEG The closest thing would have been our film guys.
Q. Were any other projects discussed at this meeting?
A. No.
Q. And do you remember whether, after this meeting, Walden or anybody else was interested
in pursuing the King Tut miniseries further?
A. No. The -- the King Tut miniseries really -- it didn't work for us. It's not really what we did.
We weren't making a judgment on the value of the project to that, it was just not something
that we did and, you know, it wasn't core to us.
Q. After those first two meetings, did you ever have a third meeting with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes. Well, actually, after that meeting, Michael came that night to see prince. We were at
that time producing a -- I guess you would call it a residency for prince at the rio hotel. It was
called 3121. And Michael wanted to come over and see it, so Michael came over that night to
watch the prince show.
Q. Did you talk business at all with him at that meeting -- I mean at that prince show?
A. No. I mean, Michael showed up, I took him downstairs, there were -- there was kind of a
hospitality room downstairs. I -- Michael actually showed up early. I was surprised. And prince
had two backgrounds singers. They were these two ladies who were Australian and were
twins. And they said they had met Michael before, so I took him in and kind of let them all
visit.
Q. And so no business discussions there?
A. No.
Q. All right. That's -- and then Mr.
Jackson, did he attend the prince concert?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Okay. And then did you have another meeting with Mr. Jackson after that?
A. Yes. We had another meeting in New York City with Michael after that.
Q. And do you remember when that was?
A. That was a few months later, quite a few months later, I think; and that meeting was at the
regency hotel in New York.
Q. And do you remember what that meeting was about at all?
A. That one, there were more -- there were attorneys and accountants there for Michael. You
know, I think at that time Raymone Bain was more pushing for some all-encompassing deal
that didn't really have anything attached to it. It was just --
Q. What do you mean?
A. "Let's do a big deal," but we didn't know what it was for. In the -- in the first meeting,
Michael got excited about the fact that we had done the David Beckham deal, that AEG Had
done the David Beckham deal, and said a number of times, "Why don't you guys do a David
Beckham deal with me?"
Q. Did you have an understanding as to what he meant by that?
A. Well, I kind of understood what, you know -- there was nothing specific attached to it.
That's why it was difficult. You know, when something like that happens, you go, "To do what?
I want to do a deal, but to do what?"
Q. And was there ever a point where you wanted -- or were willing as a company to give Mr.
Jackson a large amount of money without a clear idea of what he was going to be doing?
A. No, no.
Q. After these first three meetings, did you have any more discussions with Mr. Jackson
about anything?
A. No. It pretty much went pretty quiet from there. You know, for quite some time, we -- it kind
of just kind of -- deals have a way of doing that at times. You can work on things; if there isn't
a deal to be made or something to be made, they just kind of go away.
Q. And so this just kind of went away?
A. Yeah, this one just kind of went away.
Q. During all of these three meetings in 2007, was there ever a time at any of those meetings
that you thought Mr. Jackson looked like he might be under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
A. No.
Q. Was there ever a time he seemed anything other than alert?
A. No. He seemed -- he had a lot of energy.
Q. Did he seem happy? Unhappy?
A. Very happy.
Q. But no deal was done at the time?
A. Pardon me?
Q. No deal was done at the time?
A. No, no.
Q. And at some point down the line, do you know whether Mr. Jackson came into contact
with AEG Live again?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. When was that?
Mr. Panish: Objection; foundation.
Ms. Stebbins: If you know.
Judge: Overruled.
The witness: At least a good year later.
Q. And were you involved in that sort of second set of -- of meetings, for lack of a better
word?
A. No, not really. It was coming in through -- through a different person in the company.
Mr. Panish: Well, again, your honor, objection on foundation.
Judge: Sustained.
Q. I'm just trying to establish you were not involved with further meetings with Mr. Jackson?
A. No, no. The further meetings, I was not involved.
Q. When was the next time that you saw Mr. Jackson?
A. I saw Michael at rehearsals at the forum one day when I went down -- one evening when I
went down to the forum.
Q. So would that have been in the June 2009 --
A. Roughly, yes.
Q. So from sometime in 2007 to the summer of 2009, you didn't see Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Ms. Stebbins: Your honor, we're about to go into a new area. I can start it, but we might just
want to stop.
Judge: Just start it, keep going.
Ms. Stebbins: Okay. Now, you talked earlier about the idea of you and Mr. Gongaware not
exactly doing the same kind of work for the company.
Q. And with Michael Jackson's "This Is It," you both attended the original meetings in Las
Vegas, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Did there come a time when one of you became responsible for the Michael Jackson
project?
A. Almost immediately. Paul and I knew it would be Paul to take the lead on that because he
had the History with Michael.
Q. Did you understand what Mr. Jackson -- what Mr. Jackson and Mr. Gongaware's History
was, or just know that they worked together before?
A. Paul had done previous tours for Michael. I generally knew who he worked for and, you
know, what he was responsible for.
Q. Now, did there come a time where AEG Live entered into an agreement with Mr. Jackson?
A. Yes.
Q. And even though you hadn't been involved in the negotiations, did you have to approve
that deal?
A. Yes.
Q. So you had to approve the agreement that was ultimately entered into?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you review the offer and the terms that AEG Live made to Mr. Jackson before
those were made?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you actually review the agreement in all its detail, or did you review a summary of it?
A. Correct.
Q. So in this instance, the artist -- the expenses of production, where do they fall?
A. On the artist's side.
Ms. Stebbins: Is that good, your honor?
Judge: Yes. Okay. Tomorrow, return at 9:45.
(The following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the
jurors):
Judge: Okay. I think there were a couple of things you wanted to talk about. Shall I have the
witness step out? Step down, come back at 9:45. And I need you to step out of the courtroom.
The witness: Thank you, your honor.
Judge: Who was raising an issue? I thought somebody wanted to talk to me.
Mr. Panish: The only thing is tomorrow -- there's some rulings that you made on the depos.
We didn't bring our depos, but we would like to talk about those.
Mr. Boyle: I'm going to email with Ms. Cahan, we might be able to work it out. It would be a
two-minute hearing.
Mr. Putnam: We asked so we can cut it in time.
Mr. Boyle: I think we'll be okay.
Ms. Stebbins: And the only other outstanding issue I was worried about is Ms. Rwaramba,
and I guess you'll need to talk to Ms. Chang.
Mr. Panish: This is what I know. I hate to say it. That Ms. Chang is not -- they have not -- she
spoke to the lawyer, and the lawyer doesn't know where she is. That's all I know.
Ms. Stebbins: So I imagine we'll hear something further.
Ms. Cahan: Your honor, I mentioned this to Ms. Raya earlier today. We filed additional
designations for Dr. Kazakhi, who is the one we were hoping to file. It was combined; and
that's one we would like to put in this week, as well. It's not a particularly long deposition. I
know your honor is busy.
Judge: I'll get to it. I did two depos.
Mr. Putnam: We're going to keep rolling them like that and they'll be short like that, your
honor.
Judge: So you didn't want to discuss the questions on the designations?
Mr. Panish: They're going to see if they can work it out. If not, we can do it tomorrow.
Mr. Boyle: We can get it teed up so you have one question to answer, hopefully.
Judge: All right. 9:45.
(Court adjourned to Tuesday, July 23, 2013)