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THE BS OF TEE SPIB1? Of SM7BKT IB OUR

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* 118*7
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July 3Q, 1S19, 9:00 A-.il, . .; ?. E. HOtSLL? Our topic for this hour, as arranged in the*

t^is ftTho Uae ^f the Spir-it^of-:grcphecy in our Teaching^ of Bible and History.* .JQ.der, SaaieXle is heare with us this ;aoYalag _ to fulfill his prosdse to our tea0faer^ t^* fee would ;giw_us a talk
* '--"__ ,-,-.: _,

along this line, ajid I am sure the opportunity of considering this ^ question further will be greatly appreciated. A. G. D&KIELLS: J have been > little "uncertain iniay own There ife so ; ffiind as to just what line it would be best to. follow*

much ia'this that it can not be fully presented in one taik/-lainid J would xegajcaxaysiu. regrat missing the mark,and takin^^up that: whioh would not be of most interest to you; and^ab I finally decided that I ^ouid prefer to have a round-table talfc. points as are of most interest to you. I woald prefer to haire you question me and then I would txy to answer such I taay not be able, to, give
r

another talk here, and you probabiy urould sot have the time, and so I would like to ataSce this hour isost profitable* will just open the ay for question** I isili present _...,. r ... oae or two points as briefly as I can to etart with, and then I First of all I want to reiterate what 1 stated in the talk X gage SOSHS eveninga ago on this subject,that I do not want to people. I do act ant to create doubts. I do not mnt to in any say one word that will destroy confidence in-this gift .to this;, .;;,,? ^ay depreciate the *alue of the writli^s of the spirit of prophecy,, I have no doubt in my own mind. I do not know whether every man I have had can s&y that or not, but I can say it with all honesty.

perplexities throu^i the forty years 1 have been in the ministry.

I have found things elmiiax to tUat to whicn Peter referred in Pa\a f 8 wit ings,hard to be understood, ' ' stand. That is a remarkable
i~ . , _L-

You know Peter said that, and I, '"".--' -, __ '"-. " , " - , ._ -. .

have had personal testimonies come to.ffls that I oouid_jiot 3 und8rr^_ ... a oessa^e -1 as that t~ But that is ^it:"oteafiy all doubters" fcarlc baok to wheii, they at awa^ fromcua?r-^*fee^:;^tt- a^ t0tla^3a { ty^ oouLd aot

understand
from the Lord1 s vatandpoini, And we;io ot loaow as muoh a* the Lord
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knows about ourselves; and so i&ea^^eYe^a^t^^ we "do "not" iintoaE8tittd It is be qffla^|^?kno^ teadea<gr and &B The first one I got; that threw: very strongly with sort bf-^weU, f "will put;
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a tendency to domineer olrer my brethren la adffliitetrative Bsattex, not giving them the freedom of miad and thought that they were eatitisd to. I did not usderat.aj^ that. It <^d ao^ eeis so. 1 askad some of aay g#0d fKicndj aad they .aald they never had felt it, aad that threw me into worse trouble. Even soae aiembera of the Committee had never seen that* #hat waa, I.rto do? They were not the right I soon . found - - men , for me ,to get ay . - infBrmatipn -- '^.- - " " from. . that ....... there were some men who believed that the message wa right. Inside of a year or so I found a very strong tendency, under a bit of aer~ vousness and weariness, to do that very thi&g; so I got the me*sa out and reaead it prayerfully, and acknowledged it to the Lord, and I am trying all the time to guard against any domineering spirit, for I think it is a most abominable thing for a man in off ioe to begin to lord it over people who are not in office j but it is

buaan nature.

You have beard the story of the Irishman who was,, The next . r;... ,:-,. , , 1

promoted to the podtion of fore nan of a section gang. morning he vent out and said to one of the man: 'Timothy Q'Briea, come here**,;.-_:.,.. When the mn came, he said to him* [Laughter 3 -.c, "

"I discharge ye this morn-

ing, not because I have anything agin ye> feat ; to sfeow me authority, 11 He had been put in office^ and Une ve&y first t&ia&&& to do was to show his authority* '. that is human nature, but it is not Christianity; and it is to be abominated and avoided by every one who gets office, whether president of the General Conference, or principal of a school, or head pi u.department in a school.^ should avoid that and give every nan his -full rights and freedom and liberty* , , ; As I said, I aave^Het things that were hard, to be understood, but time has helped me to understand them, and I can honestly say this aoraing that I ga along in tlxia movement without any doubts in my mind. Ihen I take positions differing from attor inen, 'that I may be a doubter of their
'

is znt proof that I am a doubter^.

^

views or their interpretation, but tnat does not jcalte las a doubter of the spirit of prophecy, the Bible. I fflay differ with a man about hi9 interpretation of the Bible, bit that does not mate me a doubter of But there are men who just hold me right up as a doubter i of the Testimonies because I take the position that the testimonies are not verbally inspired, and that they have been worfced up by te secretaries and put in proper grammatical 'shape. A few years ago a man came onto the nominating committee and wanted tee kept out the presidency because I did not believe the Testimonies were

-4*

1190

interpretation; but I am the one to say whether I doubt the Testi-. atonies, am I not? [Voices: Yes, yeatj And so aireiou. I want to leave the impression that I aa not trying in any way to put any doubts in your mind. And 0, I would feel terribly to have this I .<^.^M^^ip.r?:.._?-o_se its true^ ^enyine,. .proper faith jin this gift that God gave to this 3mrch in these messages. that hfcve come- to, us, w ant that we shall stay by this clear through to the end. How *dt& reference to the evidences; I differ-with s^rae of [Amens]

the brethren who have put together proofs or evidences of the gentineaesa of this gift, in this respect,I believe that the strongest poof is found in the fruits of this gift to the church, not in physical and outward demonstrations. For instance, I have heard

some ministers preach, and have seen it in writing, that Sister miite once carried a heavy BibleI believe they .said it 'weighed forty poundson her outstretched hand, and looking up toward the heavens quoted texts and turned the leaves over and pointed to the texts, with her eyes toward th# heavens. that was ever .done* or not. I am not sure. I do not know whether I did not see it, and But,

I do not know that I aver talked with anybody that did see it. I do not think that is the best kind of evidence. If I were a

brethren, I do not count that sort of thing as a very great proof. . stranger in an audience, and heard a preacher enlarging on that, I soull have my doubts. That is, I would want to know if he saw ) it. He would have to say. So, he never did. Then I would ask, *Did you ever see the man that did see it?" And he would have to answer, "So, I never did." Well, Just ho much of that is genuine, and how much has cradled into the story?! do not know. the kind of proof we want to use. But I do not think that is It has besri a long time since I

have brought forward this sort of thing,no breath in the body, and the eyes wide open. That may have accompanied the exercise of this gift in the early days, "but it surely did not in the latter days, and yet I believe this gift was Jtsxssefe Just as genuine and exercised just the same through these later years as in the early years. C. P. BOMjM&S: Isn't the same thing true of the Bible7 ? Can't you size it up-and believe it because-of its fruit, what it does* and not because of the supernatural things related in it? A. G. DASIELLS: 7es. For instance, I would not take the story of Savid killing a lion and a bear, or of Samson killing a lion, and herald that to unbelievers or strangers as proof that the 3itQ.e was inspired, especially about Samson. I would want to teach the boys and girls: with the beginning of tnis-movement. Here is the my I would want to begin

At that time here was a gift They The

given to this person; and with that gift'to that individual, at the same time, came this jaov.ement of the three-fold message. oasis right together in the same year. steadily and powerfully in the development of this movement. That gift waa exercised

two were inseparably connected, and there was instruction given regarding this movement in all its phases through this gift, clear through for seventy years. Then, in my own mind, I look the phases over. one pn the Bible. movement toward the Bible? Fe will take What shall be the attitude of the people in this We know that that should be our authori This is the Book.

without a creed and without the higher criticism.

the position we hold today is the right position, *e believe,to magnify^his Book, to get our instruction from this Book, anri to preach this Book. ?he whole plan of rede?sption, everything that is

neoesaary to salvation, is in this Book, and we do not have to go to anything outside of the Book to be saved. That has been the

attitude of th Spirit of prophecy toward, this book, from the beginng, hnen't it?
"v

[Voices:

Yss.]

And I suppose wo 'can give credit

"to -ttisrt- - g-i ft -^ar - rar -at titufid- to ward-the- Sook- as-Ku_Qh__aa _ to__ajiy ___ .iBi"iaeja,ae tjhat _aavfedy has exercised* . In all the other reforma-

Ho# take the doctrines of the B&bl:

tions that came up, the leaders &ere unable to rightly distinguish between all error ana truth,the Sabbath day, Baptism, the nature of man, etc.,-and ao they openly taught errors from this book. But

now, when we oorae to this movement, we find the wonderful power of discrimination on the part of the spirit of prophecy, and I do not know of a single truth ia this Book that is set aside by the spirit of propnaoy, nor a single biblical or theological error that came down through the dai-fc ages that has been fostered by the spirit of prophecy and pressed upon, the people that we have to discredit wneu we dome to this Bi>o&. The doctrines of baptism, the

law, the place, aud va,ue- and digait-y of the Holy Spirit in the church, and all the other teachings that we have, have been magnified by this gift afficng us. Take another line,the activities of the church, attitude toward foreign missions or world evangelism. Fexe is our "Who among

has ever exercised greater influence than this gift in behalf of world evangel ism? Take the Question of liberal, unselfish support of the srork^ Wnen you go to those writings, you find them full of exhortations, and if *e woal-i live them out batter than we do cmr gifts be greater, and our progress would be more rapid..

1193
7Then take our attitude on our service that we are to renier to our fellosmsn, Christian help work, all those activities where a Christian should be a real blessing, -an unselfish individual in- . the cosaaunity to help people in. their sorrows and misfortunes, th e 1 r " "po veT t y ~srrd"slgimre esy aird ever y isar- tfeatthey- nee-^Jhel-p-- - -- ----- - We find -that- the writings of the. spirit of prq^ecy aboimd with. exhortations to an unselfish life ia Hiring sasong our missionary Take xhe question of hslth and the medica! A work , and all these activities, and ta-ke the service that should be put forth in behalf of the young. Where do you find in any movement that we

read about where better instruction has been given as to the attention that should be given to the young people. tion of education; Take the ques-

Why, brethren, none of cur .teachers ever have

stood in &afcaKxa<XJtfegxs&ft advance of the counsel, that good isholtisome instruction, that we find in the spirit of prophecy. Those things I point to as really the convincing evidence of the origin of this gift, and the genuineness o.f it, not to soaae SBS ocular v^fi^nstirat ions i&at a fevr people have seen, I

have no objections to persons speaking of those j but in close work jsith students I certainly would take the time to note down all these actual facts and hold them before the students, and sho" that -fro-H the beginning of this movement there has been inseparaoly and intimately and forcefully and aggreasively connected with it this gift that has magnified everything good and has yx discounted, I think, everything bad. A.nd If that is not evilence of the source

of this ?ift aong us, then I do not know what would be evidenus. W. . HOWELL: I asc sure the teachers would like to have "some

suggestions on the use of the spirit of prophecy and its writings in tfceir teaching work.

A, G. DAHIELLS: in a particular way.

Well, give me a question that will be definite, ' _ - . .

C*.L. TAYLQBx. I. would lifce to ast you to discuss for us the exegetical value of the Testimonies. Of course I think it is adeisi;_<K)ji._l>y_u8__tha_t__tke?e__are _a^T_te**? *9 *&!?'& she no reference. not touch. There are many texts that she explains, and May we accept the there may be other explanations that are equally true that she doe* But my question is really this;

explanations of scripture that she gives'? Are those" dependable? A; G. BAIHSLLS: I have always felt that they were. It nay be in very critical natters there way be soaae difficulties; bat

I have used the writings for years la a way to clarify or elucidate

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the thought in the texts of scripture. "Patriarchs and Prophets." many instances of good illumination. Does that answer your question? or to get additional ligh^?

Take "Desire of Ages" and , Bo you mean whether students

In reading them through I iiave found

should resort to the writings for their interpretation of the Bible, That is to say, is it necessary ts. have tl)ese writings in order to understanf^the Bible? mast we go to her explanations to get our meaning of the Bible? or is that involved in it? C. L. TAYLOH: Kot directly, but possiTSLy indirectly. Bat T will give a more concrete example . means, We will suppose that a student Is that the question

coses for help on a certain scripture, and wants to know what it Te it proper for the teacher to explain that scripture, with perhaps other scriptures illuminating the text, and tben brlnsin the spirit of prophecy also as additional lis^ht on the text? Or suppose two students differ on the meaning of a text, and they cotae to the teacher to fin 5 out what it means: Should the te

-3tion he take a V Or take still a third case:

1195
Suppose that two "breth-

explain the text and then us the Testimonies to support the posi-

ren, both of them believers in the Testimonies, and of ccrurse be liei&rs in the Bible primarily, Kmtx&s?> have a difference of opinion on a certain text: Is it right for them in their study of that

text to bringp in the Spirit of prophec^r to-aid in their * ing of it, or should they leave th'at~b^t""'bT"iESSr""tB8~"
entirely?

A. 0. BASTELLS:

On that first point, I think this, that we T think

are to get our interpretation from this Book, primarily.

that the BooV explains itself, and I think we *can understand \ the
Boofc, fundamentally, through the Book, without resorting to the Testimonies to prove up on it.

W, Ei HQWELL: o'#n expositor.

5

The Spirit of prophecy-says the Bible is its ~ , Yes, but I have heard ministers say that the I heard it

A. G. DAfllELLS:

spirit af pxosfceay-is the interpreter of-the Bible,

pre*he& at-t&a General Conference acme years ago^ when it was saidt that the only way we could understand the Bible wa.s through the writings of the spirit of prophecy, J. S. ASDIRSON: C. ^. SORKHSOH: not our position. A. G. DANTKLLS: Bible. It is not our position, and it is not right It will net -tand. that the spirit of prophecy is the only safe interpreter of the That is a false doctrine, a false, view. .Why, ay friends what would all the people have dor^s from John's day dovrn to the present if there were no way to understand the Bible And he also said "infallible interpreter," That expression has been canceled. That is

-10-

e xcept through the writings of the apirit of prophecy! It is a terrible position to takel positively-daagerous-l that id false, it is error. It is teat-do those people do over in Rouisania^ _.

We have hundreds of Sabbath-keeprs there who have not seen a book ontire -spi-rit-Qf-?rophe^?~~Wha^-ti^ Can't _tMne.._us:dt8_rstancl this Book oal_y as we get the interpretation through the apirit of prophecy asd'thetv take it to them? heathenish S L L. CAVIHESS; Do you uncle rat and that the early believers got ax their unoerstanding from the Bible, or did it come through the spirit of prophecy? A. G. DANISLLS: They got their knowledge of the Scriptures It pains me as they went along through the Scriptures themselves.
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That 1

to h^ar the way some people talk, that the spirit of prophecy led

out and gave all the Instruction, all the doctrines, to the pioneers, and they accepted them right along. That la not according to the Wa are told how they did;, Sister White says io writings thsmaelvas, "Early Writings. w

they searched these scriptures together and studied and.prayed over them until they got together on them. her works that for a long time she could not understand, that her mind nas locked over these things, and the brethren worked their way along. She did not bring to this movemen^ the Sabbath truth. It did not seem right to her when But she had help from the Lord She opposed the Sabbatb truth.

Brother Bates presented it to her.

ami wnen that clear knowledge was given her in that way, she vas a weak child, and could not understand theology, but she had a clear outline given to her, and from that day to her death she never Kaverea a minute. But the Lord did not by revelation give to. He gave this Book, and

another all that He had given in this Book.

He gave men brains and thinking power to study tfaa Boole* I would not, in my class work, give out the idsa at all to students that they oan not unclerstand this book only through the writings of Sister White. I would hold out to students,, as I^do.to ~: preachers, arxa in ministerial meetings, the necessity of getting our understanding of the Bible from- the Bible itself, and using th spirit of propheoy to. enlarge our view. X tell^ them -.not to be lazy about studying the Book, and Jiot t'o^Tuaraage'axouTid first; lo^ somethinr that has been written on a point that they can just swallow . without study. I think that would be a very .dangerous thing for And there are soa,\I asust . our ministers to get into that habit.

confess, who will hunt around to Jfind a statement in the Testimonies and spend no time in deep study of the Book. They do not hare a taata for it, and if they oan look around and find something that is already made out, they are glad to pick that up and go along without studying the Bible. The earnest study of the Bible is the He mist Ccjrne to the book itself and

security, the safety of a man.

get it fcy careful study, ana than whatever he finds in the spirit of prophecy or any other writings that will help him and throw light and clarify his vision on it,that is alright. cover your point? C, L. TAYLOR: It does to a certain extent; and yet ^hen you t&ke the case of these two brethren who accept the Bible and the Tsstitconie", but still have a difference of interpretation that they srant help on,is it right for them to use the -Testimonies in their study of that text, as v.ell as the Bible? A* G. DANIELLS: I think it is right to take the *hole trend
'-. ,; -*-.

Doea that

of teaching and thought .that is put through the Testimonies on that

subject. If I am perplexed about a text, and in ray study of the '

U99
spirit of prophecy I find something tsat makes .it clear, I take thai. I think Brother Prescott illustrates that in this matter of
. ....... ^

Matthew 24 of tfhieh" there is a - cl ear : outline- in t&is spirit .-ofprophecy.

For - tw&-c>E- three--yea.r&--I speat- a

in the proper"" 3tu<*y_cf the " " 3th " " - -ohapt.er - - -- of - - Baniel,/-tp -; " - - get ; wfrat I thought

to be the A interpretation of that o&sptsr.

I got up. to the point

one time-where I felt that I aust get that clearer, ??here I could use it, and I aade it the special siib^ect of prayer ^Ivwas over in Sngland, ^KxsxsxaixiExE^^iia&f stopping at the^ home of a It came to me jurt like a voice, "Read what it r "brother there.

says in'Patriarchs and t^ophets* on that subject," prophets" and "began to look through it. to clarify my aintf-on that sub|ect. tnat Brother Taylor raises. -

X turtiecl ri^hi

around to a too-k casQ back'of me^ and. took-xip ^Patriarchs and I came right to the chapter That, that dealt *ith the stibject, and I.found exactly the thing I wanted It greatly helped me. Brother Daniel la, is my owa personal exps-rience over this aatter In connection with *rhat Brother Taylor has asked, I would like

to suggest this. Whether a comment 6n the spirit of prophecy upon the Authorized Version establishes that aereion as the correct version against the Revised .."Version, here the reading is changed; and if one accepted the Revised Version, it irould throw out -the comment made in ths spirit of prophecy. asind.
A. G. DAHTELLS: Just in addition to that other point: 1 had a si&ilar experience ?fihen I WR;? in Europe the I act tine, when I w greatly exeroised about the finishing- of this *'ork. T felt so

T have a definite case in.

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anxious about it, and I said, "Lord, what la the vital, isportant thing necessary to get this work finishedt* I was at Friedensau,

and in ay room praying earnestly aver that -natter* -.And : <Muy- knees I took this little book, "Christ! Object Lessons,* and began to I - 'had reall y got -weary with prayer y as^-etopped to xead- a ----". _ / lit '.leu and the first thing I found^ was; this: [Hot v_erlfied[wit& the book] *_______ receive the Spirit of ^Christ;, you ..will grow Your faith will increase, your convictions The fruit of the Spirit is, Uhen the read;

ana bring forth fruit.

deepen, your love be made perfect.

love, joy, peace, etc., This fruit can never perish.

fruit is brou^xt forth, immediately He putteth in the sickle because the .harvest is ripe. That is the finish of tae work* Christ is

waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in Kis church, When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in Kis people, then He rill come to claim Bis own. It is

the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Were all who profess His name

bearing fruit to Kis glory, how <$uickly t-he whole -world..vould-.be. i ??ith the seed of the gospel! * Quickly the last great harvest ci be ripened, ani Christ would come to gather the-precious grain." I just stayed there on my knees and praised God for that gleam of light that came to me. It took that text in Mark,- "When the

fruit is brought forth, immediately Ha putteth in the scifcie because the harvest is Qozse.* It saows fust ths steps to take. I have felt

rom that -day to this that this denominations should be on its knees praying for the infilling of the Holy Spirit, that we sdght quickly finisc the work.

-So, Brother Taylor, I rcould feel that the vie^p that would be made clear by the notes in the spirit of prophecy would be the safe view to take. W. E. HOWELL: I had a little experience- on that sarae point that

came to tea during this Conference, and it maie an impression on my mini, t have always claimed a part of the fifth chapter of Hebrews I have resorted to it many times for help fro& a' T,a&t week we-were study-ing, here the divine

for trie teacher.

teacher's uie^point.

call to teach, and I resorted to this chapter for some thought, and in csnrisctioa. with it I rea-d a cosnneat in the spirit of prophecy, I think the Spirit of the Lord led ate to it. the teacher; It says this is for

*Hs fcfcm* who seeks to transform humanity must himself I thought that was good for the teacher.

understand huasanity. *

"Only through sya^athy, faith and love can men be reached and uplifted.' H&re Christ stands revealed' as the faster-Teacher, of all that ever dwelt on th sarth, He aloaa has perfect understand ing of the humn soul." Then comes 1 this scripture from the fifth

of Hebrews; "We have not a high priestMaater-Teacher, for the * priests were teachersthat oa,n not "be touched with the feelings of our infdirsities, one that hath not .been in all points tempted like as we ars." That brought a flash of light on the fifth chapThen I took that idea

ter of Hebrews I had never received before.

of tne high-priest being a master-teacher, and I found the best outline of tiia qualifications of a teacher I could find in any one place in the Bible; and now I claim the whole of the fifth chapter fox the teacher. F. M. tflVJQX: I h&ve a paragraph here I would like tu read.

This is so coinpletely in nartaony with what Brother Daniells hv.s expressed that I thought I would like to read it. James White, ia

the Review of 1851, wrote this., and it wa.3 republishsd again four

-15-

years later, as expressing wnat be considered the denominational view with respect to the Testimonies back there:
"GIFTS OF THE GOSPEL CHUKOT*

"The gifts of the Spirit should all have their proper places* Tne Bible is an everlasting rock. practice. It is our rule of faith ana

In it toe ffian of God is 'thoroughly furnished unbc ail

"gdod works. 1 ""If every aierabei- of' the church "of' Christ was hwly, . harmless, and separate from aimers, and searched- the Holy Sciiptur.es diligently and with much prayer, for duty, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, we think, they would be able to learn their whole duty in *alx good %orks-.
r"kt-"J-

Thus 'the man of God may be

perfect.*

But as the reverse exists, and ever has existed, God in

much mercy ha pitied, the weakness of his people, and iias set the gifta in the gospel church to correct, our errors, and to leal us to his-living Word. PaulTTSays that they are for the 'perfecting of The

the saints,* 'till we all oome in the unity of the faith.'

extreme necessity of the churca in its imperfect elate is Godts opportunity to manifest the Spirit. *Every Christian is therefore in duty bound to take the Bible as a perfect rule of faith and duty. He should pray fervently to

be aided by xhe Holy Spirit in searching the Scriptures for the whole truth, an.i for "nia whole duty. He is not at liberty to turn from We say that the

then* to learn his duty through any of the girts.

very moment he doss, he places the gifts in a wrong place, -an-1 takes an extremely dangerous position. The Word should be in front, ^9

eye of the church should be placed upon it, aa the rule to ~alk by, and the fountain oT Aiado^t, from which, to I^arn. duty in 'all good sorks* But if a portion of the church err froc the truths cf the

Eible, and become weak and aickly, and the flock becoise scattered,

1202
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so that it eeema necessary for God to eroploy thergifts of the Spirit to correct, revive, and heal the erring, we. should let him work. Tea, more, we she-aid pray -for him to -work, and plead -;

earnestly that he 'ould work by the Spirit*a power* and bring the -soattrsTrt- -steep-to- irisfsid; -?rate -the-tardy -he~ wiii

"We wrote the abo TO article oa the gifts at -tbs gospel , ^four years since. It was published in the first volume of the He view. One object i$ republisbing it is that cur readers may see

for themselves ishat our position haa ever besn on this subject, that they niay be better prepared to dispose of tb& statements of those v^h.0 seek to inj-ure.-us. ' '"

"The position that the Bible, aM the Bible alor*e, is the rule of faith and duty, does not shut out the (gifts, which God set in the church* To reject them is shutting out that part of the We say, Let us have a whole Bible, and

Bible which presents theai.

lat tha^ 1 and that alone, be our rule of faith and duty... Place .the gifts wnere they belocg r and all is barsiony." Heviev? and Herald of October , 1854. 'W. W. ?HKSCOTT: HOA- should we use the writings of the spirit of

prophecy as an authority by which to settle historical questions? A, G. DASIELI'S: We-li, noiv, as I xxndsrstand it, Sister finite never claimed to be an authority on history, ana never claimed to be a dogmatic teacher on theoiog/. ^'S^'e never outlined a course of theology, liXe Mrs. Eddy's "OOOK on teaching. She just gave out

fragmentary statements, but left the pastors and evangelists and preachars to -orlr out all the^- probls^s cf scripture ar*1 ox" theology ana of history. She never cXai-reu to be an authority on history; and Q.S I have understood it, shore the history that related to tKs

interpretation of prophecy was clear anu expressive, she wove it into hor writings; but I have always understood that-, as far as sho Was concer-ies, she *as re.*3y to correct in revision such statements a? 3be t&ought should "be corrects^, I have aever gone to her

vritiazs, an! taken the history thr*t I found in hsr "Titings, as the positive statement of history regarding the fulfillment of pr^pcesy. I do not know hov; other's aia-y"Tiatr-that, but I have fsl^t

tUat I should del with history in the aaiss way that. I am exhorted Co deal v;ith the Bible,prove it all carefully and thoroughly, anc^. then.let her go on and make such revisions fror tiae to time aa seem best. Just one more thought; $o# you know aocething about that

little boofc, "Ths Life of Paul." You know the difficulty ?;e =^t / into about tbat. We could never claim inspiration in the vrhcle thought and makeup of -the booi;, because it has been thrown aside bsoause it w&a badly put together. Credits ere act given to the

propw-r authorities, .and some of that crept into "The Great Controversy,*tb.s lack of creiit3j and la t^s revision of that too,k those things were carefully run down and roade right. Personally

xhat has never ahalcen ay faith, but thers ars sssa hc h-ive been gres-tly hurt by it, and t think it is because they claimed toe much for tiisse writings. Just as Brother Wixlts s^ys, therais a danger JJet i^ have

in going aws.y fron tha Book, and cls,iTiir.g toy nruch.

its full T:sight, just as God has fixed it, and then I think wg v.i,.l stand without baing -shaken ^su soxe of these things io appear that wo car. not haxraonize with ov,r theory, n. ^. PRE3COTT: Thcr^ is another experience th^t yox: kss.v of Sose of the

stt sipolies to v,nat Brother T-aylor lias Drought up.

-IS-

brethren here reaeaaber vexy sell a serious controversy over the in terpretation of the 8th chapter of Daniel, and there were some of ;the. JaretJiieu-JK^^csgi^ called'" tha ,new yl-rsr; and they. took"her ^ritings^td'.'.'ycpholii; their '"

use_her. -wxitln5S_to_se ttle_ that controversy..

I think that :

to be remembered' as kelsg her owrx. ^counsel w^en oret&rezi, that"' didolairc to believe the Bible and the spirit of prophecy were divided over an interpretation, and it was a matter c pubiic controversy. j. N. ASDERSOK: Bow far woiiid you take that -??ord fros Sister > 7/

fhite to be a. general statement about her writ iagsJ : A* 0. BAHISLLS:

I thinfc it wis especially on the ease then,

but I think we have to^ use the same judgment about us ing: her writings in other cases. C..A. SEOLL: ' . * . \ .

-Just how shall we use the Testimonies in tho line class room? 1?aatr shall t>e our attitude toward them in *the,iia&JE of * ~" hi^t'or.y, especially? Before I Icaew tuat there Kas any in the spirit of pTOphecy regr*rdiag the esperieucs of. John, I atatd to the class that there was a tradition that John had b&sn thrown into a caldron of boiling oil, and a student itr.madiately produced that statement in the .Testimonies that John was thror.*n into the boiling oil. How, I want to kno~, 7as she given a divide revela-

tion that Jo"r.n was thrown into a vat of boiling oil? Ho" another Question, on the taking of Eabyloa. Mrs. White in -

the siirlt of prophecy meatlous that Babylon v^as t^kon according to the historian, by the turning aside of ths waters. .Modern scholarship says it was not taker, that *vay. in reard to auch tb-Laat r'hat should be our attitu-ie

MRS. WILLIAMS:

We have that question to meat every year. I have been confronted in my classes by

E. F. ALBEHTSWORTH:

students ".who c^me v?i^h the Testimonies and endeavor to settle a by quoting where she says, *I Have been shown." Xl_.AkiagL5.J?tet^ to
kind. G. ?. BQLLMAK;

They

_ I have_wanted

*.x> know -Rhat attitude we should, take o# a question of that

-"' Wouldn't that latter question Require a cotj-

crete axacpleT
A. G. DANISLLS: Yes, I th'ink it would.

E. F. ALEERTSWORTK:

some of I do not recall the example; tmt^the

students Tioiild say that meant she had a direct revelation, and others would say that meant that she was shown by people around .her. A G. SAKIELLS: says that. I do not think that, is what she means when she

1?heG she was ehown, it was by the .angel or the revelaI feel sure fche.t was her meaning.
I have founa students "Kho had doubts

tion that was made to her,

E. F. ALBERTStORTH: about that.

W. G. WIHTH:

Suppose #e do have a conflict between the author-

ised and revised versions? A. G. BASIELLS: That question was up before. You must not I have

count mo an auth&rity for I am just like you in tue matter. to form ay own opinions.

I do not think Sister White meant at all I do not

to establish the xaacsiam certainty of a translation.

thiuk she had that in niiud, or had anything to do with putting hsr seal of approval on the authorised version or on the revised version when sLe Quoted that. .She uses whichever version helps to bring out tna thought .she has most clearly. ". ' " '' -

"*iw

"

' .

"

1206
.

icf^reiiCtf tv thib historical ^natter, I cannot say any*e thi-a I h.7o suiJ, that I never h^vo unlsxstooi that Sis* t e_ 7iite uiiisiv^-A to S3ltle hlstoiic*! ^us^ti,,;i3. I viiitsd bar

orica 3-fsr u;;Is matter of thy * daily, 11 an-i I t^ along .7ith. nie th~t old chart, as s^rly a chart ae *e have access to, 0, ?. 3jLL^Ar;: A. 5. BASTTLLS; Tlir 3iJE chart t^at ^Ider "Ha3keil"soiYs"?""^"" TS's, it ^IB ttoat same chart. I taok that

IaI3 it an her lap, aad I too*: ^Ba^ly Writings" aad read tt to c-nji. t:;-3r* I t-id her of the controversy. her. I spent a lon tire rith

It was one of her Ouys ^hea ehe was feeling cheery and I said, "No^

rested, and so I explained it to ber q^ite fully.

hers you say that you were sliona that the. vie v cf the 'daily* t&at the brethren held *as correct. ' Now," I said* n tliere fere two parts here in -this 'c^ily* tbat you quote. One is this period of time, the 2300 years, ~asd the other is what the ^da.ily * itself

I rent o*7ar that xiVu ier, an-.t every tiro, as quick as I -so' come to that titaa, she would say, B ^hy, I .kno;: ^hat ^OLG sho.7u me, that that period of 3300 cSaya v;vs .fised> arid that there vvoul-1 be no defi-ite titse after that. r^acned that 1344 date." Then I rould leave that,Je*ni I vToulu 50 oa about this 'Daily." "^hy," she saio, "Brother Dar.i^lls, t io not kno?; ^hat that 'a is, whether it ie paganism or Cbr-st'a ministry. tr.s thing th^t ^as shov.r, roe. 11 sens right a^ay. That was not The brethren wer~ right /hen they

An:! she srould ~o into that twil

TKsn when I soui j ccrre back to the 23rC- ye^rs,

she -soulx straighten ri-ht up and say, r Tnat is the thln~ we never can ii-cve av-ay from, 1 tell you, you aev^r can T-ove arav fror, tha 3300 year period. It was shown to ma that 'that was fissd. n

-SI-

'

".

'

And I believe it was, brethren.

You might Just as well try

to move me out of the world as to tfy to sove we on that question, not because she says it , but I believe it was qiarly sh*>m:;fcQvhr by the Lord, 6ut on this other, when she says she was not shown That is -what:- tte ^^iatly^-wasv *~ heUftve-^tha^,^ad~X-ta*e-fa^y-ll2itiagsA_^^ on tha:fe_ _gusatig_n $t_ the Baally> tt fixi: t&at pexd. take the Bible as to what the "daily* itself ie. the thing she talks about, and I take the Bible with It, aad I ; . -

So when it comes to those historical questions About the taking of Babylon, X think this, brethren, we ought not to let every little statement in history that we find lead us away from the
spirit of prophecy.
' /

?ou know historians contradict easfe other,. --<,., ^ .. . ., : -,-. , ,,, ;..._-,_

don't you?

of course your work is to get baok, get baok, gfft baok

to the fountain head, the original thing; arid when you get back do not thera, and get it perfectly olear, IA ataxit believe that if Slater White were here to apeak to you today., she would authorize you to tafce a historical fact, supposed to be a faot, that she had incorporated nistory. in the book, and put it up against an aotaal thing in, We talked with her about that when*Great Controversy*

was being revised, and I have letters in iny file in the vault there tfhere we were warned against using Sister White as a historian. She never claimed to be that. there is on a faot. gation. We were warned against setting 'up 1 do not have to meet statements found in her writings against the various history that Tnat is where I stand. it 'i&ith students, and I do not have to explain myself in a congre-" I suppose I have it easier than you teachers do.
On that" very point you mention as to the capW. ^. PRESCQTT:

ture of Babylon, one of the most recent editions of the Bible (?) takes the position of-Herodotus against the______, and he saya:

Wfay should we *at discount the writings on parchment in favor of the writings on day?* A G. DANlELtS; . That is what I meant, that we ahould not alIf there are two authorities 'of equal -" /"'

low every historical statement that we find that contradicts the Testimonies to set us wild. what we" Save". 0. A. SHULL: to take the right attitude. value on that point, bring up the authority that is in harmony with. ~ ' * " We teachers have a great responsibility on us If we say that a oertain thing In the

Testimonies is not correct, students are likely to carry away the iraprsssion that we do not have faith in $he Testimonies. A. X3. BAUIELLS: matter, there are two7 ways to hurt students 'llcrthis I would never do that, brethren, I would take hours Casting doubts atnd one way is to discount the Testia&onies and oast a little Ho aatter how #uch I was perplexed, I *ould

bit of question and doubt on them. in the school room.

mever oast a doubt in the mind of a student. reflections is oneway to hurt a student. an extreme and unwarranted position.

to explain matters to ground the student in it.

Another way is to take

Tou earn do that and pass it I

over; but when that student gets out and gets in contact with things, he may be shaken, and perhaps.shaken clear out and away. think we shoul_d be candid and honest and never put a claim-forth that is nst well founded simply to appear to believe. You will have to be careful in giving this instruction, because many of the students have heard from their parents things that are not so, and they hear from preachers things that are not so, and so their foun\

dation is false. I icust refer again to tixs attitude, of A. T. iiefcx Jozies. In his heyday you know he just drank the shols thing In, and be wjld hang

a man on a word*

I have seen him take just a word in the Testimonies I

and hang to it, and that would settle everything^just a word. was with him vhsn he made a discovery,or, if he didn't icake it,

he appeared to oake it,and that was that there were words in the Testimonies and writings of Sister Ihite.that God did not txxpixs order her to put in there, that there were words which she did not put in by divine inspiration, the Lord picking the words, but that somebody had helped to fix that up. And so he took two testimonies Hs went on with

and compared them, axd he got into great trouble.

Dr. Kellogg, where he could Just pick things to pieces.

F. M. WILCOX: Back in the 60*s or 7d*s a General Conference in session j&aaAA passed this resolution,they said, we recognize that
the Testimonies have bees prepared "under great pressure and stress \ of circumstances, and that the wording is not always the happiest, and we. recommend their~^epublicatian with such changes as will bring them to a standard. A. 0. BAKTIMtSt I would like to get hold of that resolution.

, brethren, I want to ask you honestly if there is a man here has had coubt created in your mind positions I have takent [VOICES: from my attitude and the Or is there one of

Jfo$ Ho SO

you that thinks T am shaky on the Testimonies?I will not say that thinks my position is not just right",^for you might not agree with me, but from what I have said, is, there a teudenoy to lead you to believe that I am shaky, and that some time I will help to get you away -from the Testimonies? C. L. TAYLQB: [Several decided no's were heard.]_ -\ In your talk a few evenings ago I agreed 1005! Today there" is just one question in rcy mind.

in everything you said. A. G. BAim^S:

Let us have itV

-24-

C- L. TAYLQR:

Th^.t is regarding those outward manifesta-

tions, those things of perhaps a miraculous nature. . -I do not inow srhettiBr ycnr Intend to oarry the- impression that you discredit- those or that you simply would not teach them. If it is that you would

in. agreement 5tith_ iba_t

Qn .the .pther feind*. i?_.yp^ **^f'.1'.^. position

that those things are not-. to be relied- on, that Elder Loughborougb ana others are mistaken about these things, I should have to disagree with you. A. G. BA&IELLS: Ho, I do not discount them nor disbelieve them;

but they are aot the kind of evidence I rould us with students or 'pith unbelievers. C. t. TftYLOR: A, 0. BAtOTULS: I agree with that. I do not question thesi, but I do not think Tor instance, I do - *

they are the best kind of evidence to produce.

not think the best kind of proof for me to fcive" an audience on the Sabbath question or- the nat&re of man, or baptism, -is to go and. read Sistar Wtiite's writings to the. ^ive is the Bible. I believe the "beat proof I can

Perhaps you will remember that it fell to me to

'

preach Sister White 1 s funeral sermon; and if you will remember, I toofc that occasion to give evidence of her high calling. I did not

a- long list of fruits and miraculous evidences. I knev? the the world in matter would bs published to^hundreds of papers, and T wanted to give them something that would be a high authority, and this, is
what I- gave: First, that she stood with the word of Goa from Genesis to Rsvelition in all its te-.icbin^.

Then, ehe stood with njankijad in his highest endeavors to help mankind, -elaborating on t&ose points,

t ie what I mean, Brother Taylor; "but T do not discount tfccse othar tilings. That I want "to know isrthis, oretaren; " ,

DcH8lay position appear

to be of such a character that you would be led to think I am shaky? VQlSsT S^TT"^^^ I have stood through it afcoufc/Jfor^years.; art-

want to- do- jttefri^ba&-I have t^ befeoms^^I,-can;.-aot, oaismrflagflL _in, a thing like this,

shaken, and I think it ie a safe position; but if 1 were driven to take the position that some dc on the Testimonies, X "would be shaken [VOICE: That's right'] I would not knos? where to stand, for I

oan not say that white is black and black is white. H. C. LACET: To us there is no doubt that you believe the

Testimonies, but will you mind my adding another personal note to it?
A. 0. DUKIELLS: Ko.

H. C LACET:

It is thla;

l^ose who-have not heard you, as

v;e have here, and are taking the other sids of the question^ some of them are deliberately saying that neither you nor Professor Presort believe the Testimonies. For instance, I went out to

Ht. Vcrnon and I met the graduating class there, and when theeatercises ware over 3 I had a private -talk fcith three._o:r: four, of. tliose young people, and they told me that they certainly vmdsrstood that our General Conference men down heretfcey did not mean me or Brother Soreasondid not believe the Testimonies. ft. W. PRESOOTT: H. C. LCEY: Tou are not telling ue news.

We as teachers are i& a terribly hard position.

Ws have got nearly down to bed-rock in the question* that have been asVed asre; "but the students do get right down to kgAxgs&t bed-rock

-3S-

.,

on some Q'l these things, and we need to get a little deeper Here, There are people her* at these meetings who do not dare to ask ts,in questions that hi.ve come up in their kinds or in private talks. But -y&tt-fc-mw--that the teacher 4s- in a ?ery difficult position* - . _ On that oatter of the capture of Babylon, I have felt free to hitI-^hou^rt-the <vi-4eseewes--tfe&t-- Gy^s--4idr^oi-- capture -4t-- o.y, tut we vvo-uld hold the matter in abeyance and simply study it^ Suppose now that further Jtxan tablets ?/ould come to light, and

Qther evidence would be brought in to prove indisputably that Cyrus aid not capture Babylon that way, vould b it be right .to say that if tiiteX-c is a. revision of that took,-"Patriarchs and Prophets," i&ioib indorses, in one casual sentence, that old view,the revision '.'oulu be brought into harmony with recently discovered facts? A. G. DANIELLS: occupies. I think that is the position Sister White

I "think that is what .she has done. . I neser understood

that she put infallibility into the historical quotations. E* C. LAGSY: But there are some who do understand it. It. is interesting to Inow that even a higher

^. W. PHESCOT11 :

critic like, Gse^xge: Adams Smitxi agrees vlth Herociotus (?) on that. Brother Daniefcls was speaking about this question of physical ours&rd. eviaeacas.. One of those evidences has been that the eyes wars open, as you will remember, and this scripture* in the 34th ciiaptex of Sujsbers is always referred to, showing that It is in harmony with that. But you read the Revised Version, -and you fin(i it reads, "And he took up ikis his parable, and said, Salaam the -son of Beor aaita. And the man ishose eye was closed a&4k saith;* tnis text it puts it just the other say. ^n

Then I culd not want to

use that at* ar. ar^nment, that the prophet's eyes were open.

27~
A. G. DAHIELLS; matters.

1213

That la what I mean by referring to secondary

H. C. LA GEY; In our estimate of the spirit of prophecy, isn't . . _ _ _. ____... ._ ._ . .. _. _ _ __, . '._*_. ___..____ __ _ .._... _.... __i_ its value to us more in the spiritual light it throws into our own

hearts and lives than in the intellectual accuracy In historical and theological matters. teacher to our heads T A* 0. BASIELLS: J. H. ASEERSQS: Ought we not to tak those writings as the voice of the Spirit to our he art a, instead of as the voice of the And isn't the final proof of the spirit of Yes, I think so." Would you set about to explain things as you prophecy its spiritual value rather than its historical accuracy?

have this morning? Would you explain that you do not think the Testimonies are to be taken as final In the matter of historical data, etc*, so as to justify a position? A. G. DANIELLS; spirit of prophecy? C. L. TAYLOR: W. H. WAXEHAM: H. C, LACEY: Who gives the teaching in the school on the Is it the Bible te icher? How do you gat that

question before the students? Both Bible and h-istory teaohera catch it. It comes up in every Bible class. Wouldn't it be a splendid thing if a little pam-

phlet were written setting forth fcfetssxfiuKta in plain, siiple, straight-forward style the facts as we have, them,simple, sacred facts,so that we oould put them into the hands of inquiring students? VOICE: Our enemies would publish it everywhere. it G. I*. BENSON: I think^ would be a splendid thing if our brethren We had a man come to The impression was con-

were a little conservative on these things. spirit of 8 prophecy through Sister Wnite.

our Union and spend an hour and a half en the evidences of the

So 28-

veysd that practically every word that she spoke, and every letter sue wrote, whether personal or otherwise, waa a divine Inspiration. Those things sake it awfully hard Tor our teachers and ministers. W 4 G. WIHTH: out. I want to second what Professor Lacey baa brought I wish you general men would get out something for us, because W W. FRESCOTT: they would not do it. C-. ?. BOILMAB: W. W. PRESCOTT: her asanusoripts. A. G. DANIELLS: It wasn't made to her, though, Ho, but it was made to those who were handling v Some of those statements like what Brother To my certain knowledge, a most earnest appeal

we are the ones that suffer. was made for that from her office to issue suah a statement, and

Wilcox read here this morning have teen up a number of times, and Brother White always took a good sensible position, W. W. PRESOOTT: Brother Wil a>x had a lettter from Sister White herself that he read* "A. G. DA8XXUS: When these things were under pretty xfexvx sharp controversy, W. 0. White, for his mother, sent out things that we had in our vaults here that greatly modified this, and helped to smooth out these wrinkles and get a reasonable ground on which to stand. I do not know but what perhaps the General Conference Committee sight appoint a committee to do thia, and have reliable, responsible men that the people do not question at all take hold of that and bring out these facts. teachers. It does seem to a that in our schools there ought to be an agreement among the Tne history and Bible tsachsrs and others that have to do -with these things should get together and have their stories

-asand -their teaching alike, if possible.

-' - . " 1215

But

The truth should be given

to those students, and when you give the truth to them you will have them founded and established on this without trouble. when these erroneous views are given them, they get a false idea and then there is danger when an honest man takes the true .side and states his position, W. E. HQlI*t: Importance. It seems to use that the point ^is of very great We X have been somehwat perplexed on this matter.

have talked over things very freely and frankly here.at the other meeting aad at this, and I think the teachers here at ail satisfied tax* as to the plaoe that is to be given to the spirit of prophecy in its relation to their work. But these teachers, when they get back to their places of work, will have all kinds of questions put to them, and it has been a question XB with me, as to how far a teacher ought to"fo with & class of young people or with an indiscriminate body to deal with and attempt to bring out the things that they have heard hers selves. and have received and believed for themSome other Tfcec I think there is where the difficulty is-going to be,

We have only two teachers here out of an entire faculty*

member of the faculty might not be cleared up on these things. may be teachers who are endeavoring to te^oh science out of the

spirit of prophecy; or another teather who has not had the benefit of this discussion, may have some other viewpoint; puts these teachers in a very hard situation. And it really If there is anything

that can be done by way of putting something in the hands of the teachers eo that they could give the true representation in the matter, I think it would b a very great help. . W. W. PRE8COTT: Can you explain how it is that two brethren can disagree on the inspiration of the-Bitls, one holding to the

verbal inspiration and the other opposed to it, and yet no disturbance be created in the denomination whatever. ia,right here before us* That situation But if two brethren^ take the same atti-

tude on the epirit of prophecy, one holding to verbal inspiration and the other discrediting it, he that does not hold to the verbal inspiration is discredited. F. ST, WILGOX: W. W. HffiSOQTT: Do you believe that a"manwo I do not have any trouble over it at ail* If s>_ man does not believe in tae in tfa verbal inspiration f the Bible? believes the Bible!

I have a different view myself.

verbal inspiration of the Bible, he is still in good striding; but if he says he does not believe in the verbal inspiration of the Testimonies, he is discounted right away. ful situation. If. G. WIRTH: I think it is an unhealthI shall It puts the spirit ,of prophedy above the Bible, Really, that is my biggest problem.

certainly be discredited if I go back and give this view. . I would like to see some published statement given out by those trho lead this work so that if that thing should oome- up there would be some authority back of it, because I am in for a lot of trouble on that' thing. I would like to see something done, because that education

is going right on, and our students are being sent out with the idea that the Testimonies are verbally inspired, and woe be to the man out where I am that does not line up to that. Haw as to health reform: Frequently a student will come to me and quote what Sister White says .about butter.
on our tables right along.

But we serve butter \ And tby will bring up about meat, how
And I kno that that is

under no consideration is that to be eaten.

unreasonable, and there are times when it is necessary to eat meat. What shall we do about that? I woula like & little IJLight on some

-31-

of those details, as to whether we ought to take them at full value. A. G. DANIELLS: reform. have had It about a thousand tinsss.
- T _- __

. I am willing to answer part of that, for I Take this education of health

It is well knovm from the writings themselves and from

personal contact with Sister White, and from common senae^tfaat in traveling and in it knowledge of dliJfeient~parts^ ofifieWrl'd, the instruction set forth in the Testimonies was nevex intended ta be 0210 great wholesale blanket regulation for peoples 1 eating and drinking, and it applies to various individuals^ according to their p_hysieal condition and according to the situation in which they find themselves. 1 have always explained it that way to our minWe had a ministers' feting over in isters in ministers* meetings.

Scandinavia, and we had one man there from the,"land of the midnight sun,* up in Bammerfest^wnere you never grow a banana or an apple or a psach, and hardly even a green tning. It is snow and cold We had ssat a He had the strict

there nearly all the time, and the people live to a large extent on fish and various animal foods that they get there. nurse from Christiania up there as a missionary.

idea of the diet according to the Testimonies, and he would not touch a fish or a "bit of reindeer, nor any kind of'animal food, and he was getting poor; because missionaries that ars sent ou.t do not have much money, and they cannot import fresh fruits; and it was in the days when even canned goods were not shipped much. nearly starved to ojgath. The fellow He came down to attend* that meeting, and

he was nearly as whte as your dress [speaking to Sister Williams]. t He haa hardly any blood in his body. I talked to him, and I said,
"Brother Olson, what is the matter with you? We will have to bring

~3S"
you a*ay from up there if you do not get better. blood corpuscles in your blood."

1218
You have no red I talked with him 'a while, and

finally aaked him, "What do you live on?* \ ' ' --- --_ -. . .__,_. "TOeil, 11 ixe said, *I live a good deal on the north wind.* I said, "You look like it, sure enough." We isent on talking, and J found out that the iaan wasn't eating much but potatoes and starchy foodi, just a limited dietary, I

sent at him with all the terror I ooul,d inspire for such: foolishness. YOI-S&r Bid you make any isgxr&ssiont Yes, I did. And I 'got other . brethren to join

A, G. BA13IEU.SS me.

We told that mac he would be buried up there if he tried to We talked with him straight about it.

live that way.

When I got back to this country I talked with sister White about it, and she said, "Wh/lbn't the people use common sense? Why don't they know that we are to fae governed by the places we are located?* You will find in a little testimony a caution thrown out, modifying the extreme statments that were made. F. U. WILCQX; eat some meat. A. G. BANIELLS: There are very conscientious men and ministers are very aracfc afraid they will eat something they ought not to. that very point Paul says that the kingdom of God is not meat or drink, but righteousness and peace; and we are working and trying just as auch to get through to the kingdos^aKmmafc-O^i the ground of works by
eating or not eating as by any other thing in this world. never can put down vegetarianism as "the way to heaven. You I have been

Sister White says in a copy of. the Instructor

that there are some classes that she would not say should not

-33over in India where they are mighty atriot about their eating, but * . ' they do not get righteousness that way. C. I.. TAILOR:
A. G. DAinSLLS:

It is true of air works, isn't UT^

Certainly.

You take men who have never al-

lowed a piece of animal food to pasa their lips* and some ofTfhem th~e ffiowtr^tyrsmiioal * brutai with the gospel, we have to tell them that is not the way to God, that they will haise to come and believe in the Lord Jesua tferiet and have Jtks&x His righteousness imputed to them on confession, forgiveness, and all of that . We have people among us that are Just as much in danger of trying to establish this righteousness by works in the matter of the dietary as the world has seen in any thing. You know from what twister W&ite brought out on the matter It has its place. It is important, of righteousness that it was not her purpose to put down eating and drinking as the way to heaven. and I would not want to see this denomination awing, a^vay over 'to the position of other denominations; but I do not like to hear of teaching that would lead this people to fall back on eating and: drinking for righteousness, for Paul said that is not the way. 1 do not think proper caution was used in putting out some of these things, and I have told Sister White so. SffiS. WILLIAMS: A. G. BAHXEUaS; You mean in publishing themt Yes, when they were written. I told Sister

mute that it se ernes to me that if conditions in the arctic regions and in the heart of China and other places had been taken into aooount, some of those things would have been modified. Why,* she said, fl y5 if the people are not going to use thair judgment, then of course we will have to fix it for them. 11 . It seemed so sensible to me. Sister White was never a fonaticj she was never an extrem-

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"1220I found When

1st.

She was a level -headed woman.

She was well-balanced*

that so during a period of 40 years of association with her.

we were down in Texas, and old Brother White was breaking down, that woman just got the moat beautiful venison every day to eat, and ray ,- that 4s 4ust the -ihiagi* J3^__&gj&t jfeold feim up aad mafcs him live en a diet of a tar oh* I always found her well-balanced, There are some people who are extremists, who are fanatical; but I do not think we should allow those people to fix the plat fora -------------{ ...... ..... - and guide this denomination. I do not propose to do it, for one. And yet I believe that we should use all the caution and all the care that is set out for the maintenance of health* strictest dietary set down there. ease germs. And brethren, I have tried to do it, but I nave not lived all my life on the I have had to go all over this world, and as you know, I have had to be exposed to all the disI have had to live on a very spare dietary in places in ray travel, and I have lived on wheels, and under great pressure, and it was prophesied w&en I west into this in 1901 that I & decade would finish me, and I -would either be a broken-down old wan on the shelf or in the grave* That is the way my friends talked, and they sympathized with me, and regretted that I ever took this position.; but I said to myself, *By the grace of God, I will live in every possible way just right ae far as I know it, to conserve my strength*" This is my 19th year, and I am not broken down, and I am not on the shelf or in the grave. can gat rested. and strong. I am strong and well. I am weary, but I 1 have trfced to be honest and to be true to Xfc* I do not

my seuse of what was the right tning to do, and it has kept me wall That is the basis on which I propose to work. propose to have any extremist lay do^n the law to me *& as to what

-35- -.<:..'".-

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I shall eat up ia the heart of China,

I propose to use my sense as

to what I ought to eat in those places where you oan not get a gresa thing, hardly. MRS. WILLIAMS:
A. S. BAHIILLS:

In the interior of Africa, we had to cook

Why, yea, in China you must sterilize your I do -not

everything 7?eate so as to kill the germs.

hands and your knife, and if you eat an apple, it must be sterilized after it is peeled, and even then it is not alwaya isaev think we have to take an extreme position on the question of the diet -for --ailr-olasee*-* Se are ^t all- ali^ke-* -Itet ts-good for oae * '-'". man is not goof for another. I have seen Elder Irwin sit down and eat two or three raw apples at night just before going to bed; but at night ' : one appleA would upset me so that ay tongue would be covered with fur and my bead all swelled up. give me five dollars, I would not eat one. if you would f count that health reform* to reject

that which I know injures me and take that which I know strengthens me and maintains me in the strongest physical trim for aervioe and hard work. That is my hsalth reform. Raw apples are good for people that have the right digestion for them; but if a person hasn*t that sort of digestion, he must lay down the law, So raw apples for him. That is the way a lot of things got into the Testimonies. were many of them written for individuals in various states of health, and then they were hurried into the Testimonies without proper modification. over alike. That is not to say that they are false -things, but it is t-o say that t key do not apply to every individual the world And you can not put a health-reform regime or rule .down They

for the whole ^orld alike, because of the different physical con-

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ditions that maintain. to the extremist. BH)THER WALDQRF;

That Is what I tell in ministers' seetings

arid I do not think I destroy the force of the massage at all, only I nave had no trouble for ov<er twenty years The more I hare

with the spirit of prophecy or *ith the Bible, form.

studied tooth the more firmly I nave became convince-! on this platI hive read~the whole" ofThTgBeF "critlclsa rTga~t^throtrtr/ Tnere are 60,000 different readings la There are many mistakes that were made in transcribing.

and tas other side= o-f it. the Bible.

How in the matter of historical compilation, T take the Bible and the spirit of prophecy exactly alike. A* G. DA&IEliLS: Bible: Hera is one illustration of a mistake in the

In Samuel it says a man lifted up his hand against 800 men

v;hom he slew; then in Chronicles this same thing is spoken of, and it says that he lifted up hie hand against 300 men, whom he slew. -. WAtDORF: infallible. I have never held up the spirit of prpphecy as being But students oome to mo from different teachers, havone comes xaKX2xsiue2ax and says Professor

ing different views,

Lacey taught me this way, and and. the r oomev from Professor Johnson to the medical college who taught his some other way. There are lots of them oomingA that way from different teachers. way: They do not know whether every word I teach there this

of the spirit of prophecy is inspired or not.

That when this message was first started, God brought this

gift of prophecy into the church, and through this gift God has approved of the major doctrines that ss hold right down from 1844. I for one hold that the gift of the spirit of prophecy was given to us in order to get the mold, lest we snould trust human reasoning and modern scholarship, for I believe that modem scholarship has gone bankrupt when it coraes to Greek and Hebrew.

--,.- -37yeara; but I buy meat for my wife.

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As for meat eating, I haven't touched neat for twenty-one 1 often go into a butcher shop I

and get the very best they hare in order to .keep her in life. A. G. DANiaLS;

never will use the Testimonies as a sledge hammer on By brother. I will tell you one thing, a great victory

will bs gained if we ge a liberal spirit eo that we will treat brethren who differ with us on the. interpretation of the Testimonies in the same Christian way we txaat them when they differeon the interpretation of the Bible. That will be a good deal gained, and it is worth gaining, I want to tell you, for I hove been under criticism tstx ever since the controversy started in Battle Creek, Isn't it a strange thing that when X and some of my associates fought that heresy year after year, and we got massage after message from the spirit of propheoysoae of them very comforting and uplifting messagesand all that time we were counted as heretics on the spirit of prophecy? How do you account for that? Why didn't the spirit of prophecy get after us? not, I claim that I know as well as

any man luxxm&ifc whether I believe in the spirit of prophecy or I do not ask people to accept my views, but I would like If the confidence of brothers where we differ in interpretation.

we can engender that spirit, it will be a great help; and I believe we have to teach it right in our schools. Suppose students come to you with questions about the Bible -hat you do nfct know what to do with,or do you always l knowt thing in here that puzzles me! to you with such questions?
W. H. WAKEHAM: I tell them I do not kno^, and I do not lose

womld like to go to a teacher for a year that would tell me everyTOat do you do when students come

their confidence, either.

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1224

A. G. BASIELLS:

Well, when they come to you with something that Is puzzling, why not say, as Peter

in the spirit of prophecy

di4- tfes-t_tMr,e i^e:^^m_thin^8: ha?d to be understood. -I do not think that destroys th'e confidence of the people* -But we have got got to just &s3tage^ulj1_anjL ogtte knowledge of everything about the spirit of prop&eoy aad tafce an extreme position in order to be loyal and to toe true to It. W. S. B0rei*L: I just want to ressark two things. One is on la* question Professor preaoott Raised in oun previous meeting aa to isiiy "people "take these" different attitudes toward- a man on the Bible and dn the Testimonies.
h .

I am not philosopher enough to explain T think

an attitude of that sort, but. I do think that the oauae of it Hem primarily in the taking of extreme and radical positions. refareTiDQ to the spirit of propheoy, A that is where the root of tae difficulty lies, especially with Brother Daniells and Brother Prescott and -others have come in here ith us and have talked ver'jr franfely with us, and I am sure every man here will say that they have not covered up anything., They have not withheld from you anything that yoTjt havQ asked for that they could give you in reference to this matter. I do not doubt that it is your experience as it is min$ when I go out 'from Washington, to hear it said that Brother Daniells or Brother Pres oott does not believe the spirit of prophecy. A. G. DATOSLI.S: Brother Spice r, too. W. . KOWEIJi: Tea, and Brother Spicer. -T feel confident o this, that as you go out from this council you can be a great help in setting people straight on these things, and I belisve it is our privilege to do it, brethren,, to help the people on t&se points. . . Man? of them are sincere and honest in' that position; ' from ''what they

-39/ v

have heard.

I think it is our duty to help such persons all we can

as we meet them.

G.t. BEHS0N:

s this subject-going--to be-dropped here?r front

what Brother Daniella has said, I know what it is "going to mean to ~so^Q--^--Qui-^chQ^ls^-a&dj-to--curSeser&lConfereace men. Ifee3^-it-would be unfair to us aa teachers to pro

Letters huve already coas la, as king, about the general een with reference to interpreting the spirit of prophecy.
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I do not think
t

it ia fair for us to go out and try to state the position of OUT General Conference men. On the other hand, I know the feeling and doctrine as taught in our conferences, and they are the Bible te-chers of the people; and if our Bible and history teachers take thass liberal position on the spirit of prophecy, our schools are going to be at variance entirely with the field. Our people are They beginning to wonder about the condition our schools are in.

say thoy read in th Review of this spirit of paganism, and they say those articles surely sould uot have been puU.ish.ed in the Review if these conditions did not exist la our o^a schools? Why, what would they be putting it in the Re vie?/ for if that were not the case? That is a fact, many of cur people take the position that those articles were written because of .conditions existing in our own schools. I think we ought to get down to a solution of this thing if we can, and start some kind of a canpaign of education. Out in the field we have stressed the importance of the spirit of prophecy more tuan the Bible, and many of our men are doing it right along. of the Bible. ?aey tell of the sonaerfui phenomena, and many times If a break comes between our schools and the field they get their entire sermon from the spirit of prophscy instead we are in a serious place.

T. &. FRENCH:

I believe it would help us a great deal if --' - "-

some general statement were issued, and if some of this matter tfcat has bees-broughtup could o&-gi^ea>-oa, ahowiag taat me are not shifting our position, that we are viewing the spirit of to .settle the _sittIon in our &*%*$ oonfereaces, and ^otg.d "be,-a great help both to the conferences, aad to tae schools. 1 am sure . from wUat has been read here of letters and,resolutions of the past that we hare not shifted our position, but the matter is just up again; and if we could get oat statements as to our attitude all along, ami restate the matter, I beli ve it would do iauoh good. 5 W. 2. H3WEI,L; The next topic we have is a consideration of In oxir recent
jt-

-prophecy-essi^baa-l3ees-jviewed-a3^atea|^3Msel4eveitsoul-4-help

how to teaoh the spirit of propheoy in o*or sohoois. in the curriculum in this subject.

general eduoatibnal oonfention we provided for a aenie8ter*s worjc T think TO ought to tae ten mi rates* intermission* and thea take up this topio, which will give opportunity for further questions along this line, \
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