Power system modelling

Most time expensive task in power system analysis process is power system modelling. My question is what are best practices for data gathering and power system modelling in distribution power system? Is GIS your primary source of network data or you use one line diagrams of power system for model creation? What kind of GIS software do you use? What kind of power system analysis software do you use? 20 days ago

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Thaung Myint Henry Wan, Ehsan Hejri and 3 others like this You, Thaung Myint Henry Wan, Ehsan Hejri and 3 others like this 28 comments Jump to most recent comments

AlexandrUnfollow Follow Alexandr Alexandr Alexandrov My question is what are best practices for data gathering and power system modelling in distribution power system? - no best practice. Is GIS your primary source of network data or you use one line diagrams of power system for model creation? - it is the same things. What kind of GIS software do you use? - no. What kind of power system analysis software do you use? - rastrwin3. 17 days ago Unlike Like

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LeeUnfollow Follow Lee Lee McDonald in my pas roles we used Smallworld GIS and exported into a format for DINIS, but the PSS Adept. These days we use PowerTools to model from Single Line Diagrams. Making sure the SLDs are accurate is important and that allows the model to be created. As we are a consultant we do not use GIS, but most companies with GIS systems tend to be able to export to a suitable format. We are looking at alternatives for the analysis software but sticking with SKM Powertools for now. 16 days ago Unlike Like

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TonyUnfollow Follow Tony Tony Franchitti At my company, we use SLD's and other equipment spec sheets to build our models. 13 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. Ah brother, getting the data is the toughest part of doing power system modeling!

Even more difficult is interpretting marginal data. Very difficult! With the accompanying ulcers and hair loss it's most distasteful! The answer is to get the data yourself! But, many managers will often find this undesirable. They will usually prefer to send a lower cost employee. This is due to an assumption that it's a trivial and therefore easy job. So, often it takes multiple mobilizations to the site to both get the data and educate the manager about the difficulty of the task. It's a non-intiuitive task. So there is a learning curve. Thus the easyest way is to just do it yourself. Once you have the data, it's almost easy by comparision. I've used SKM for 22 years. Starting back in the DOS version. It all starts with the single line diagram if it doesn't exist I make my field engineers draw one. They hate that. But the alternative is painful. 12 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. The question we've attempt to answer is how to train those lower cost employees to do data colection. But that has turned out to be just as difficult! We've devoted time and resorces to train our own people on multiple occasions but only had minimal success. The only way I've seen positive results is the sink or swim method. Which is unfortunate. Also, once an employee excels at it he is usually selected for other duties! And the studies dude (me) has to go back to square one with someone else. It seems competence is self rewarding. 12 days ago Unlike Like

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MuneebUnfollow Follow Muneeb

Muneeb Islam I would like to know ur kind views on ETAP....?? feasibility of the s/w?? usage worldwide??? 12 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. Trying to be kind here, I will simply say my view of ETAP is poor. Their customer service is also problematic. One engineer friend had his computer "messed up" (his words) by their "assistance". I can provide a list of the reasons why I dislike the software. But will save that for now. To simplify, my company usues it only when required. Plus, when we have to use it, we charge an extra 30% to cover the extra difficulty and time. 12 days ago Unlike Like

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MuneebUnfollow Follow Muneeb Muneeb Islam Well then I think I have to shift to some new software learning. Just learned ETAP basics in my recent semester in University & thought it would be a good approach to explore it later on. @Bill: Which one do you regard a friendly & easy to learn s/w? or in other words for which............"you don't charge that xtra 30%.....!!!" :D 12 days ago Unlike Like

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HassanUnfollow Follow Hassan Hassan Razavian I like Halim explanation. 12 days ago Unlike Like

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HassanUnfollow Follow Hassan Hassan Razavian I like Halim explanation and would like to add more details. Usually all rotating devices (subject to their design, harmonics, natural frequency) will dramatically suffer from stress, fatigue, and resonance) if works under normal frequency. The level of damage depends to level of under frequency and usually the rotating devices will trip if frequency drops below 3-4% (refer to Campbell diagram). Hence stable frequency is paramount. The prime responsibility to maintain frequency is the governors of the power generation units which are selected for the task (usually they select the hydro turbine that they have fast response or thermal units with HP/LP Bypass, or other units in the networks). However sometimes during trip of the large units or network disturbances, the df/dt could be high and governors can not respond quickly to maintain the frequency or they do not have spinning reserve to respond. In these cases, the load shedding (e.g. disconnect partial load from the system) is required to make the balance between supply and demand and maintain frequency stable at network normal frequency. 12 days ago Unlike Like

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Thaung MyintUnfollow Follow Thaung Myint

Thaung Myint Henry Wan Very well all, good ! ! Very good. However, set yourself free and ease for your longer life. Don't let stress stress you. 12 days ago Unlike Like

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LeeUnfollow Follow Lee Lee McDonald I would be interested to know what other software people use and experiences with it. I have used PSS ADept and Dinis and use Powertools at the moment. Have heard of ETAP. My key areas are Arc Flash and protection coordination with some load flow usage. 12 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. Muneeb, I only know of a few US offerings. There are many others in Europe/India/Asia. ETAP is painful but will get the job done. The creators are EDSA is more painful but rumored to work. ASPEN is most capable for wild calculations and looks to be great but I've only seen demonstrations. SKM is my preference. Superior device libraries! Easy Power is good. Argueably the easiest (like the name says) to use. 11 days ago Unlike Like

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DanielUnfollow Follow Daniel Daniel Desrosiers Our customers faced the challenge over and over when implementing modern distribution system analysis tools (software). Inital loading of the data for modeling AND keeping the model up to date is a challenge. Always aimed at a single data entry and automate the transfer. We, at CYME, have a product call CYME Gateway that does just that: getting various information from utility systems like GIS, Autocad and make a relatively reliable model into CYMDIST our distribution analysis software. We can integrate not only network data but commercial data (ex.:energy/customer) as well. Personally, based on my 30+ years experience working at a utility, I like such a solution since you can get your network data on demand and if the GIS team keeps a reliable data base you are likely to work with a network close to what you have in the field. Also, if the information is properly structured, you are likely to get the info on future projects as well, avoiding errors like rebuilding an OH line 1 year prior to having it replaced by an UG one (seen it!). Avoid selecting a muliple providers like one for GIS, one for software and having a third party develop the interface: there is a great risk of having to run in circle when fixing a problem. 11 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. One reality is that supervisors don't appredciate the time required to maintain a correct system model. So it doesn't get done until it's required for something else. Thus the study eng. is forced to play catch up. Which leads to a low quality model. Years of repeatedly doing that makes a big mess. 11 days ago Unlike Like

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RobertUnfollow Follow Robert Robert Beltz Bill, it is wonderful to see that someone else agrees with me regarding data collection. They always want to send electricians or worse. I would double the modeling time with this method. The best method I have found is a oneline, a digital voice recorder ( it replaces my tape recorder ), and a high resolution digital camera. Open panels, photograph everything, discuss my observations on the recorder, and mark up the oneline with my special very tiny print. Then go back to the hotel and begin modeling. I could accomplish the entire collection process and be well on the way with modeling in significantly less time than proposed. The difference in margin covered my time and expenses. I started using SKM when it was only captor and before windows. We modeled the short circuit on a Cray.. What a waste of horse power. The point of this is to urge all power engineers to get out from behind the desk and spend some time at the customer site. The practical experience gives an understanding of what the other guy is experiencing when they are doing the data collection for you. 9 days ago Unlike Like

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AntonUnfollow Follow Anton Anton Schmidt P.E. You ask a question that is difficult to answer. I did Power System studies for many years and fewer than <5% had all the data first time round. We developed data collection sheets and spent time training Field Engineers to collect the data. In some instances one must make educated engineering assumptions to complete a study. These assumptions must be noted in the report. My preference is ETAP software but use EasyPower and used EDSA at the request of a customer. 8 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. <5% Yep that sounds about right. 8 days ago Unlike Like

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SreteUnfollow Follow Srete Srete Nikolovski We have several powerfull software, such as PowerWorld, EasyPower, DIgSILENT, NEPLAN, PSS Adept, As someone say the easiest and very easy to use is EasyPower. After that for RMS and EMT simulatioan and realiability assessement DIgSILENt is very good tool . 7 days ago Unlike Like

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EricUnfollow Follow Eric Eric Spivey, P.E. Yes Bill and Anton's replies a 100% spot on. I have been doing power system studies for for a while (not as long as Bill lol) but I have used EDSA, Easy Power, and SKM. I do find SKM to the favorite. I have just started using Easpower for a university project, I myself think that the logical flow of SKM is better than Easy power. A co-worker that uses ETAP says that the libarary functions of ETAP are a better than SKM. 7 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. Wait a moment there pardner! I must take exception here. The ETAP library better than SKM? No way. My SKM library of: static trip low voltage, molded case breakers has 1835 devices, thermal magnetic low voltage molded case breakers has 954 devices, medium voltage solid state relays has 1001 devices, medium voltage electro mechanical relays has 2360 devices, all fuses total 780. The grand total of my libraries is 4806 devices!! This is quite definitive! 6 days ago Unlike Like

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GregorUnfollow Follow Gregor Gregor Skrt Maybe I should explain my question a little bit more. In the past, accuracy of data didn't play such a big role in distribution power system because voltage band was completely used for voltage regulation from substation to consumer. To analyse/simulate impacts of DEG or for other system studies we need more accurate data to use remaining voltage band to it's upper limit effectively with low investments. This is (in my opinion) best "smart grid" investment a company can make towards "greener" future before jumping in smart meter and other smart grid investments. Since connections of DEG to grid is happening spatially random, very accurate and complete data model of distribution system is needed both on the MV and LV network. There are many ways distribution company could do that. One of the ways to achieve this goal is to use GIS systems with data export and electrical topology. New data models for distribution systems are developing like CIM ( IEC 61968 ) data model for distribution power system (i think there is a group here). Thats why Im interested in Power system simulation software compatible with GIS. I was wondering if there is a power system simulation software that could import GIS and other system data from

databases for system studies and if someone uses such software. Example: https://www.google.si/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A %2F%2Fwww.cired.net%2Fpublications%2Fcired2001%2F5_30.pdf&ei=62TUYmGKsHDtQaG94GwDA&usg=AFQjCNFzRKPz3KuOchOXB8hoJx0C01tLiQ&sig2=nrq9iI6NMp2T IMMHQPiMqQ&bvm=bv.46471029,d.Yms 6 days ago Unlike Like

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Engr. AbdullahiUnfollow Follow Engr. Abdullahi Engr. Abdullahi Inusa I hold the view of using Matlab optimization toolbox to realize network reliability, as an additional approach to analyze power distribution network. 6 days ago Unlike Like

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DavidUnfollow Follow David David Corcoran We have used several powerful software tools for system modelling and system reliability over the years, such as Design Base, ETAP, ERACS, however from our experience the software that is the easiest and offers the most is DesignBase. DesignBase is better than other EPMS solutions as it is compatible with multiple energy metering solutions. It also allows the user to model electrical networks and power systems for simulation in its Blackboard simulation environment. The simulation environment allows evaluation of What-if scenarios Future network planning Also at present it is the only platform that allows design models to be re-deployed in live mode, using Power Analytics Paladin Live. DesignBase creates a robust electrical model of your network using SLD. A detailed knowledge base of all

the components, processes, and performance specifications of the entire electrical system is required. The benefit of having a detailed model of your network allows for the detailed analysis of : Load flow Fault (classical & IEC909) Arc Flash Hazard Harmonics o Injection o Impedance Transient Stability Protection Co-ordination System Reliability (IEEE 493 Standard) The Reliability of electrical infrastructure is key to ensuring plant & equipment is available to deliver energy and control to crucial processes. Ensuring system reliability is one of the primary functions of electrical engineering teams in industry. It is often difficult to identify weak points and to determine which works will enhance the overall reliability. 6 days ago Unlike Like

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AntonUnfollow Follow Anton Anton Schmidt P.E. EDSA was the forerunner of Design- Base, it must have been improved significantly. 5 days ago Unlike Like

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EricUnfollow Follow Eric Eric Spivey, P.E. Sorry Bill, he was not talking about the quantity, but quality, as in the layout. In SKM if you are building a Breaker that has a gnd fault, you have to build the phase function, and then build the gnd function. My co-worker says that it is already there in ETAP. I would like to see that in SKM. 5 days ago Unlike Like

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RobertUnfollow Follow Robert Robert Beltz Eric, I am using version 6.5 of SKM. It has had the breaker model with the ability to add elements to that breaker for some time. Granted, you first select the breaker type, frame, trip unit, etc, then you select the ground trip unit and settings. Many years ago ( ok, well maybe 10 ) we had to model separate devices on the oneline to accomplish that goal.. yes, it was more work. Now, it is very convenient. One of the positives about SKM is the component libraries. It is also one of the problems. It is easy to create a new entry and I have found that sometimes those creations aren't correct. We have always marked a libary entry with a star to show that it was created by one of the Power System Engineers and not provided by SKM. We had about 100 copies( might be more since I retired) and libraries were always very important. 5 days ago Unlike Like

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BillUnfollow Follow Bill Bill Swingle, P.E. Yes, the libraries are where SKM shines. With the DOS version of SKM I made many dozens of device models because I had too. But no more. Now it's exceedingly rare. 4 days ago