BEGPRODNO M-INT-00002924

BEGBATES 265A-NY-280350-302-3038
DATE = 09/13/2001
FBIDESCR I tINTERVIEWED
INPUTBATCH NCTA 004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August)
FULLTEXT FD-302 (Rev. 10-6-95)

-1 -
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date of transcription 09/14/2001

\. peftg Airlines.

provided the following information: ,

]advised he has been a commercial airline pilot

since 1976. He started with Western Airlines and became a pilot!
with Delta Airlines in 1987 when Western was merged with Delta;
Airlines. I hdvised the attack on the World Trade Center
and the Pentagon this week caused him to recall an unusual incident
which took place over a year ago during one of his flights. ;
I [stated he felt he made several major mistakes and despite
the fact he may receive retribution from his company,to whom his has
related this information, he felt he needed to relay this story to
the Federal Bureau of Investigation. ;"n / - , . , , . ,
a 9/11 Personal Privacy
I {stated on the date of August 11, 2000 he was on
a trip with Delta Airlines which originated iri Salt Lake Citv. He
was the Captain and his First Officer was| \e stated
in the afternoon, exact time unrecalled, they were getting ready to
fly a 767-200 commercial aircraft from Atlanta to Ft.Lauderd?le.
i btated usually they have around 1/2 hour to prepare the
plane and he was very busy going through the checklist of items.
He stated he had completed the list, the passengers had boarded and
they were getting ready for pushoff when a gate agent stepped into
the cockpit and told him they had a "jumpseater here". He stated
it was permissible for off duty pilots with his airline or others
to ride in the iumoseat in the cockpit when the rest of the; seats
were taken. These pilots were usually traveling on a free pass
accepted among all airlines. When a pilot wanted to use the
jumpseat. they usually had to fill out a form in triplicate and
show three forms of Identification to include a picture ID, an FAA
certification card and a current FAA medical form. He stated the
man, who was standing outside the cockpit, told him he was a pilot
with Lufthansa Airlines in Germany and he had lost his picture ID
along with his ticket in his luggage when he switched flights in
New York. He stated he had traveled from Germany that morning and
he was going to Ft.lauderdale, Florida to receive training on a
757/767 airliner. He stated he had just flown on a Delta iumoseat
from his previous destination which Ashworth recalled to be New

Investigation on
9/13/01 t
File # Date dictated
?RRD.NY.980350-3p2 9/14/01
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI
and is loaned to your agency;

April 27, 2004 2:29 pm Page 1

 It and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

[PDF page 1]

FD-302a (Rev. 10-6-95)

-•_9/ll Personal Privacy

265D-NY-280350-SU

Continuation of FD-302 of I x-|.-' , On 9/13/01 .Page 2

York. The man was very polite, well spoken with a slight European
accent and neatly groomed. He displayed from a wallet, his FAA
certification, his medical form and also snowed him a Lufthansa
Although none of the items bore his photograph
Jfelt his story was legitimate but was not sure they could
ke foreign pilots on a lumoseat. Another gate agent came up and
gave him some paperwork to review a/id sign. While ishe was there he
asked her to go back and cheek the flian through theicomputer to
corroborate his story. She came back and told him she checked and
he was Qualified F I was going fe check/his 0il0l manual to
see if he could take a foreign pilot-but there was so much that
needed to be handled at the last minute, he was unable to do so.
He told the man to sit in the lumbseat and they finished their
final checks.!""" fcould not recall what He did Wjthithe form
he received from the gate agent regarding the jumpseater. He said
he usually put it down with other paperwork and he: believed after
the flight he threw it out. He stated the gate agent usually had
two other copies. He did not know what the gate agents did with
their copies. He did not recall trie name of the individual. He
stated during takeoff the man was very quiet and did hot ask any
questions. After they leveled offt ilooked at hisimanual
and realized foreign pilots were not allowed on the iumpseat. He
realized he may have violated a FAA rule, but the person in the
iumoseat may not have been worried because he thought the person
might not have realized it was a procedural violation jn the United
States.f" fetatad in Europe all foreign and jdorjneslic pilots
are allowed to "jumpseat" on most airlines. Nevertheless, at this
polnl I noticed a small black tote bag theimaVi had laying on
the floor next to him. He stated he kept his eye on it during the
flight but the man never touched it or opened it. i i I

I istatad either he or his co-pilo^ initjiatejl

conversation with the man and they spoke aboutigeneral; airline type
concerns such as pay scales with different airlines. He stated the
man seemed knowledgeable about different airlines isnd I I
recalled both he and his co-pilot were stunned to learned some
experienced pilots were making as much as $400,000 working for
Saudi Arabian airlines. He said the man never asked any technical
questions and did not appear overly interested in the; operation of
the aircraft. At one point he said something about looking forward
to flying 757/767 airplanes and indicated he was lucky to be able
to do so with' so few years with his airline. I | ^got the
impression he had about three years with Lufthansa Airlines. They
did not discuss any other matters to I IrecoUectlon.
]stated at no time did he leave the cockpit. After they

[PDF page 2)

FD-302a (Rev. 10-6-95)

April 27,2004 2:29 pm Page 2

 265D-NY-280350-SU

Continuation of FD-302 of | | , On 9/13/01 .Page 3

finished their meals delivered by the flight attendants, the man
offered to take them back. I Itold hirn not to worry, the
flight attendants would take them. He did not appear to be
offended and did not show any interest in leaving* I \stated
they had a normal approach and landing in Ft.Lauderdale. |
noticed as the man was departing the cockpit, the flight attendant
handed him a guitar case from the front airline closet.. This \t surprisedT 1 since he thought th

the flight andwalked out onto the ramp. I tstated during

the flight he initially contemplated calling ahead and having
someone from airport security meet the man when he amved::::He did;
not do so after talking to the man because he felt he was probably^,;; .
legitimate and it would have possibly caused him problems with the !'''-h>n
FAA and his company for allowing the man to fly. "... .--/' 9/11 Personal
...-•-"' /•' Privacy
i ladwlfiaa the only thing that made him question
the man's story about flying from Germany that morning was that he
was wearing shorts. He stated most International travelers do not
dress that way and most American pilots dressed in a sport coat and
tie when traveling. He stated the man did, however, have a slight
"5:00 shadow beard" which would be consistent with flying that
amount of time. Other than the observations of the shorts and the
guitar, he stated the man did hot act in a suspicious manner.
the man as follows:
Name: Not recalled
Race: Caucasian
Ht. 5'6" to 5'8"
Wt.150-160
Build- Slim, in good shape
Hair- Dark, short, recent haircut ,
Age- Late 20's to early 30's .
No facial hair, scars, marks, tatoos
Voice- very slight European type accent.
Clothing- Golf type shirt and shorts, neatly dressed
I | could not recall the name of the man, the number
or exact time OT the flight, the names of the gate agents or flight
attendants. He stated he would try to locate the flight number In
his computer and would report it to the FBI.
[PDF page 3]

April 27, 2004 2:29 pm Page 3

6EGPRODNO M-INT-00045435
BEGBATES 265A-NY-280350-CI-1668
DATE • 09/12/2001
FBIDESCR JIM CAMP RE:INCIDENT REGARDING ANOTHER PILOT RIDING JUMPSEAT
INPUTBATCH NCTA_004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered In August) .-• ,
FULLTEXT 265D-NY-280350-CI ..-•""" y/il Law Enforcement
265D-NY-280350-IN ., Privacy
DLB:pas ...
...---"" 9/11 Personal Privacy
-••" 7

ICF# Ct-34The following investigation was conducted by Special

Aoeni itColumbus. Ohio: \n September 12. 2001 . SA BRITTON contacted JIM CAM

CAMP stated he is a pilot for UNITED AIRLINES.

On September 7,2001, CAMP was aboard flight number

657, from Newark, New Jersey to Chicago, Illinois. The Captain
in Command of the flight was ROGER STRANTZ, who is based in
Dallas, Texas. STRANTZ approved another captain from SKYWAY
AIRLINES to fly in jump-seat as a part of a reciprocity agreement
between the airlines which allows employees to fly on
competitors' airlines.

CAMP advised that the protocol is the requesting

captain must identify to the captain in command and present his
airline credentials as well as his pilot's license to gain access
to the jump-seat If it is available. CAMP advised this
information was input into the UNITED AIRLINES computer and
should contain the SKYWAY pilot's name, airline, and his start
date of employment.

CAMP stated it is typical that all of the passengers

board the aircraft first and then the requesting pilot present
himself to the Captain in Command at the cockpit and requests to
be seated in the jump-seat. CAMP described the individual from
SKYWAY AIRLINES, as a middle-eastern male, 5'11", 210-220 Ibs.,
with dark balding hair and glasses, and large gaps in his front
teeth, and who he believes is in his 40's. CAMP advised this
SKYWAY pilot had a middle-eastern name that he could not
pronounce. The SKYWAY AIRLINE captain knocked on the cockpit
door, stepped inside and stood there acting very strange. The
SKYWAY pilot then asked the Captain in Command If he could be
seated in the jump-seat. CAMP told STRANTZ he was uncomfortable
with this pilot seated in the cockpit, so STRANTZ asked the
SKYWAY pilot to have a seat in the passenger section of the
aircraft. The SKYWAY AIRLINE pilot turned and left the cabin
carrying a bag with him. however, he left a blue insulated type
bag in the cockpit. STRANTZ called out to the SKYWAY pilot and
told him to take this bag with him and store it with his other
baggage. CAMP thought it was strange that a pilot would be
carrying such a bag with him, because it appeared to be a lunch
bag or something to hold beverages, very small and insulated.
CAMP discussed with STRANTZ that it was odd for a pilot to act in
such a manner.

[PDF page 1]

265D-NY-280350

April 27, 2004 2:31 pm Page 1

 STRANTZ stated the aircraft taxied down the runway
where they sat for approximately 3V4 hours, until the pilot's time
was up and they were forced to return to the gate. Upon opening
the aircraft doors, the SKYWAY AIRLINE pilot exited the aircran
immediately. CAMP thought nothing more of the incident until the
recent airline crashes in New York.
The drafting Agent telephonlcallv contacted the FBI's
Newark Division duty Aoentl J arid relayed the
aforementioned information. ::::::::::>"9/ll Law Enforcement
A facsimile of the FD-822. Information Control Formwas Privacy
faxed to SAI "1

[PDF page 2]

April 27, 2004 2:31 pm Page 2

BEGPRODNO : M-INT-00091160
BEGBATES : 265A-NY-280350-302-751 33
DATE = 09/27/2001
FBIDESCR : INTERVIEW OF ZAKI YOSEF ALZGHOL
INPUTBATCH : NCTA_004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August) 9/11 Personal
FULLTEXT : FD-302 (Rev. 10-6-95) ,. ' Privacy

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date of transcription 09/28/2001

On 09/27/2001 Zaki Yosef Alzghol, Jordanian Male, Date of

Birth DOB: I Vwas advised of the identity of the
interviewing Agents and the purpose of the interview. The purpose
of the interview being to verify some information regarding
Alzghol's travel plans in recent weeks.

Alzghol advised that he is presently employed with

Tradewinds Airlines, 243A Burgess Road, Greensboro, North Carolina
27409, and has been employed with Tradewinds since 03/06/2000.
Alzghol is employed in the position of flight engineer and is next
in line for upgrade to first officer. Alzghol currently flies the
300 airbus, and was typed in that aircraft in 1995 through the
Continental Airlines Training Academy.

In late August and early September, 2001, Alzghol had

taken vacation and traveled back to Jordan to visit with his
family. Alzghol was scheduled back to work on 09/1 1/2001 at
approximately 7:00 pm in San Francisco. On 09/10/2001, Alzghol
departed Ahman, Jordan to Tel Avive, Israel via ground
transportation and was delayed in his arrival in Tei Avive due to
traffic accidents. Because of the delay, Alzghol missed his
intended Delta flight into the United States U.S.. After missing
his Delta flight, Alzghol jumpseated on a Continental flight out of
Tel Avive to Newark, New Jersey arriving at approximately 4:15 am
on 09/1 1/2001.

Alzghol contemplated taking United flight #94 out of

Newark directly to San Francisco because he did not want to be late
for work. However, Alzghol needed to pick up his lap top computer
and other equipment left at his apartment in Dallas, Texas prior to
going to work. Alzghol finally decided to take a Continental
flight directly to Dallas, pick up his equipment and then go from
Dallas to San Francisco.

Alzghol traveled to Dallas on a iumoseat pass. During

his flight to Dallas a flight attendant told the passengers that
because of a national emergency they were instructed to land
immediately in Memphis, Tennessee. Alzghol and other passengers
learned of the terrorist attack in New York when other passengers

Investigation on at
09/27/2001 Austin, Texas
265A-NY-280350-302
File # Date dictated
265A-NY-280350- SA 09/28/2001
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
by

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI

April 27,2004 2:32 pm Page 1

 and is loaned to your agency;
It and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

[PDF page 1]

FD-302a(Rev. 10-6-95}

265A-NY-280350-302
265A-NY-280350-SA

Continuation of FD-302 of Zaki Yosef Alzghol , On 09/27/2001 .Page 2

used alrphones and called family members. They were advised of the
details by the Captain just prior to deplaning in Memphis. After
arriving at his hotel in Memphis, Alzghol was watching the news and
learned that the plane he considered taking to San Francisco was
the same plane that crashed into the Pentagon in Washington D.C.
Alzghol was stunned, and mentioned that It was hard to comprehend
the magnitude of the situation. Alzghol could not believe that if
It had not for his computer, he would have perished in the hijacked
plane that crashed into the Pentagon. Alzghol was stuck in Memphis
for a couple of days before finally renting a car and driving with
another Continental pilot back to Dallas.

Alzghol provided the following information regarding his

background and education:

Alzghol first came to the United States In 1978 on an

F-1 student visa and attended Airline Mechanic School at Glendale
College, Glendale, California obtaining a certificate In Aviation
Technology AP mechanic certification. Alzghol was employed as an
airplane mechanic which enabled him to get his private flight
certificate. Alzghol worked at various aviation related companies
in California from 1982 through 1992, during which time he also
attended California Pol/technical Institute University, Pomona,
California earning a Bachelors of Science Degree In Aerospace
Engineering Technology June 1992. Alzghol was employed at several
different corporate and charter airlines in both the U.S. and
Turkey from 1992 - 03/2000 when he took the job with Tradewinds
Airlines. Alzghol Is type rated in the A300 airbus and Boeing
727 with a total flight time of 4000 plus hours.

Alzghol advised that he is a Naturalized U.S. citizen,

his three children were all bom in the U.S. and his wife is a
permanent resident alien.

Alzghol denied having any knowledge of the persons

responsible for the terrorist attack In New York and Washington
D.C. Further, Alzghol denied being associated with anyone who would
have any knowledge of the terrorist plots against the U.S. Alzghol
is a Suni Muslum denounced the actions taken by the terrorists
responsible for the attacks in New York and Washington D.C.
Alzghol is sad that the terrorist attacks have given the common
citizen who is not familar with Islam and/or the Muslim faith, the
misconception that all Muslims are extremeist or terrorists.

[PDF page 2}

April 27, 2004 2:32 pm Page 2

8EGPRODNO : M-INT-00116595
BEGBATES : 265A-NY-280350-302-99548
DATE = 11/09/2001
FBIDESCR : AZZAM ALI HASAN GANADILY
INPUTBATCH : NCTA_004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August)
FULITEXT : FD-302 (Rev. 10-6-95)
9/11 Personal Privacy

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date of transcription 11/09/2001

AZZAM ALI HASAMftANADllY date of birth I I

place of birthi ur JUS alien registration number
I US home
I Saudia Arabia home telephone
I «/as contacted at his residence
reference FD-822 PD783. GANADILY was advised of the identities
of the Interviewing agents and of the purpose of the interview,
whereupon the following was obtained:

GANADILY advised that he Is employed as a pilot for

Saudia Arabian Airlines, also known as Saudia Airlines, and that he
and his family reside primarily in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. In
addition, GANADILY maintains a residence in Gresham, Oregon, due
primarily to the fact that the family of GANADILVs wife, LOUISA
GANADILY, resides in the Portland, Oregon, area.

GANADILY is a citizen of Saudia Arabia. His status in

the US is that of an alien resident. GANADILY advised that he
first entered the US on August 11,1984, for the purpose of
attending school in the US. From 1984 to 1985, GANADILY attended
Portland Community College-Sylvania in Lake Oswego, Oregon. In
1985 or 1986, GANADILY transferred to Portland State University,
where he studied for approximately one year.

In 1988, GANADILY returned to Saudi Arabia. In January,

1990, GANADILY returned to the US, where he enrolled for flight
training at Sierra Academy in Oakland, California. GANADILY
completed his course of study at Sierra Academy in February, 1991,
after receiving various commercial and instrument flight ratings
and becoming a certified flight instructor.

GANADILY then moved to Hillsboro, Oregon, where he

received post-instrument flight training. GANADILY completed this
training in August, 1991. In September, 1991, GANADILY returned to
Saudi Arabia, where he attempted without success to find an
aviation-related job.

GANADILY again returned to the Portland area, where, in

August, 1993, he received an associate's degree in aviation from

Investigation on at
11/09/01 Gresham, Oregon

File # Date dictated

by SA| 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy |

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI
and is loaned to your agency;

April 27, 2004 2:33 pm Page

 it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

[PDF page 1]

FD-302a (Rev. 10-6-95)

265A-NY-280350-302

Continuation of FD-302 of , On 11/09/01 , Page 2

Mt. Hood Community College. In April, 1994, GANADILY was hired by

Saudi Arabian Airlines, also known as Saudia Airlines, as a flight
instructor at Saudia's flight training academy. GANADILY has been
employed by Saudia since that time; at present, he is assigned as a
747 First Officer.

GANADILY typically flies routes in the Middle East,

Southeast Asia and the Far East On occasion, however, he flies to
Europe and to the US, often as a crew member on so-called VIP
flights hired by the Saudi Royal Family.

GANADILY was advised that information received by the FBI

indicates that GANADILY was among a group of Individuals,
apparently of Middle Eastern heritage, for whom airlines tickets
were purchased by a Florida tour agency on a September 23,2001,
flight from JFK Airport in New York City to Los Angeles
International Airport LAX.

GANADILY denied any knowledge of such an occurrence, and,

after consulting his personal logbook, advised that he was in
Bombay, India, from September 21-24,2001. GANADILY provided the
name of an American pilot, Captain GRAFF, as the pilot in charge of
GANADILVs crew at that time.

GANADILY then was advised of the names of other

individuals identified as having been the intended recipients of
tickets purchased for the above-described flight. GANADILY advised
that the names SALEM BEN HEMED, ABDUL RAHMAN QUDSI, and JEHA
MAHALLAWI correspond to those of persons known to him as fellow
Saudia pilots.

GANADILY advised that he and the above-named Saudia

pilots all were members of a VIP flight crew that entered the US at
Newark, New Jersey, in May, 2001. After reviewing records in his
possession, GANADILY advised that he and the above-named Saudia
crew members, along with another crew member named ZOHAIR MANUAL,
entered the US at Newark, New Jersey, on May 20, 2001. The crew
subsequently flew from JFK to LAX on May 23, 2001, via a United
Airlines flight, and returned to Saudi Arabia aboard a Saudia VIP
flight from LAX to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, several days later.
MANJAL did not accompany the crew to Los Angeles aboard the May
23, 2001, JMsd Airlines flight.

GANADILY then produced a copy of a Saudia Airlines

General Declaration, which he described as a document furnished by

[PDF page 2]

FD-302a (Rev. 10-6-95)

April 27,2004 2:33 pm Page ;

 265A-NY-280350-302

Continuation of FD-302 of , On 11/09/01 , Page 3

each Saudia crew to immigration and customs authorities upon entry

to the US. The General Declaration, which is designed to
facilitate entry by Saudia flight crews into a foreign country,
contains information concerning the flight and its crew, including
names of crew members, purpose of the flight, and other relevant
data.

Review of the document shown by GANADILY to the

undersigned agents indicated that GANAOILY, BEN HEMED, MAHALLAWI,
and QUDSI all were aboard a Saudia flight which entered the US at
Newark, New Jersey, on May 20,2001.

It is noted that the date of GANADILYs flight from JFK

to LAX with the other above-noted Saudia crew members was May 23,
2001; the date of the United Airlines flight from JFK to LAX for
which tickets reportedly were purchased for GANADILY, BEN HEMED,
MAHALLAWI and QUDSI by a Florida tour company was September 23,
2001.

GANADILY stated that, to his knowledge, Saudia Airlines

deals directly with US airline companies when reserving flights for
its crew members aboard US airlines' aircraft. GANADILY advised
that, assuming the Information provided to the FBI concerning the
purchase of tickets for GANADILY and other Saudia crew members was
mistaken as to the date of the flight, he still cannot think of a
situation wherein Saudia would purchase United Airlines tickets for
its crew members through a US-based travel agency.

GANADILY advised that further clarification of Saudia

Airlines procedures relative to purchase of tickets aboard US
airlines for Saudia crews possibly could be obtained through
contact with Saudia's JFK dispatch center located above the Saudi
Arabian Airlines ticket counters in the JFK Delta Airlines
Terminal.

GANADILY stated that, in his opinion, it would be

extremely difficult for anyone to assume the Identity of a Saudia
Airlines pilot In order to gain entry to the US under false
pretenses or to gain access to the cockpit of another airline's
aircraft. GANADILY explained that Saudia Airlines does not have
agreements with any US-based carriers, such as those which exist
between certain US airlines, wherein a Saudia pilot can "deadhead"
or ride in a cockpit iumoseat. Moreover, in GANADILVs opinion,
immigration and customs controls at US points of entry are such
that anyone attempting to use a Saudia employee's company ID likely

[PDF page 3]

FD-302a (Rev. 10-6-95)

265A-NY-280350-302

Continuation of FD-302 of , On 11/09/01 , Page 4

April 27, 2004 2:33 pm Page 3

 would not be able to correctly answer questions posed to him or her
concerning the employee's previous entries into the US. In
addition, GANADILY stated that, even if a person were able to
obtain a false passport in a Saudia employee's name, It would
difficult for that person to duplicate passport records pertaining
to an employee's previous entries into the US.

GANADILY advised that he has no information concerning

potential threats to the US or its citizens. GANADILY stated that
he would contact the appropriate authorities should he become aware
of any such threat.

[PDF page 4]

April 27.2004 2:33 pm Pa9e4

BEGPRODNO : M-INT-00081284
BEGBATES : 265A-NY-280350-302~49316
DATE = 10/10/2001
FBIDESCR : INTERIVEW OF RICHARD PAUL AMMERMAN, ICF SF3682
INPUTBATCH : NCTA 004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August)
FULLTEXT : 10/12/01

Reference lead control number: SF3682

RICHARD PAUL AMMERMAN. aka DICK AMMERMAN, DOE

currently residing at/ " _J\ fwas located f

interview at his residence. AMMERMAN Is a United Airlines pilot

based at San Francisco International Airport, San Francisco,
California. AMMERMAN, in the presence of his wife, LORI
AMMERMAN, was apprised of the purpose of the interview and the
identity of the interviewing Agent. He thereafter provided the
following information:

He has been employed as a pilot for United Airlines for

approximately seventeen years. He believes that he may recognize
as many as four of the dead hijackers having been on one of his /9/11 Personal Privacy
flights between one and two years ago. It was an afternoon
flight from San Francisco to Denver but he can not recall
additional identifying information. The first pilot, identity
unrecalled, was doing a standard "walk around" inspection of the
aircraft while he was making flight preparations seated alone in
the cockpit of the Boeing 757. He was briefly startled when
during the boarding process he realized five or six Middle
Eastern looking males, wearing casual western clothing, had
stepped into the area behind him in the cockpit. The cockpit /
door was open and it is not unusual for people to think they can
walk in part way and look at the cockpit area of the aircraft. /
On this occasion, the males started talking among themselves and
seemed reasonably knowledgeable regarding flying an aircraft.
One male asked another, "Is this a 757 or 7677". The other male
correctly identified it as a 757. Another male "jokingly"
jumped up and down and said, Til fly it!" and the others just
laughed. This encounter lasted only a minute or two and broke up
when the first pilot returned. The flight to Denver was without
incident.

He recalled the aforementioned encounter after the

September 11 terrorist attacks. About two weeks ago, he viewed
the photographs in the newspaper of the dead hijackers. He
believes he recognized the following: 9/11 Law Enforcement
Privacy
1) MARWAN AL-SHEHHI, United'Airlines Flight #175.

10/10/01 | f-•-"""""
265A-IMY-280350-302 .,-"""" 10/12/01

SAL J FBI, SAN FRANCISCO, CA

{PDF page 1]

265A-NY-280350-302

RICHARD PAUL AMMERMAN 10/10/01

2) NAWAF ALHAMZI, American Airlines Flight #77.

(AMMERMAN believes on his flight he had no
moustache, wearing beige shirt and pants and

April 2,2004 3:33 pm Page 1

 was closest to him in the group, standing
directly behind his seat.) .
3) SAEED ALGHAMDI, United Airlines Flight #S3. O-^A? V
(AMMERMAN believes he had no moustache on his v

4) AHMED ALHAZNAWI, United Airlines Flight 93_.

(AMMERMAN believes he had no moustache on his
fllahU
AMMERMAN notified ED ECKHARDT. an investigator_foj_
United Airlines headquarters in Chicago, Illinois, telephonel-1
f He does not
know if ECKHARDT wrote a report. ........ 19/11 Personal Privacy
He also told his wife, LORI AMMERMAN. In a possibly /
unrelated incident, yesterday morning around 10:0p.a;rri., October .
9 2001 ERIC MEEKER (see attached police report and separate FD»
302) a neighbor who lives directly across the street, who kriows
that he is a pilot for United Airlines, saw a van parked briefly,
in front of his house. He was unable to note the llf.en.5fli TP.e
driver was wearing a .turban. MEEKER called thej. / IPolioe
Departmenf__Wi0 responded and interviewed MEEKER, The van
was no longer in the area. The Police Department notified .the
FBI in San Francisco.
AMMERMAN related that MEEKER, as requested by thei.—J
notified LORI AMMERMAN later that eveningjndas a precaution she ; j
decided to spend the night with her sister in[_-1 / Mi
California because he RICHARD AMMERMAN was out of town. On the ;
way to her sister's house she related the van sighting to her/
cnn'al
SOD lAMMERMAN.
5^^^HHH^^MHMWMWMMMjT~iiviivih.i age 15
\i*if-ii j, wgv and—. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
• «. w». ' / ;/
AMMERMAN, age 13. They both recalled that they had seen a ; i
similar van approximately five houses down the street as they j !
packed the car around 7:00 p.m. for their overnight stay. LORI I j
AMMERMAN immediately detoured for the I I Police i i
Department. Thd Police Department interviey^d her, he;r j

[PDF page 2] // | I

265A-NY-280350-302 // M

RICHARD PAUL AMMERMAN li)/iO/01 $ i

two oldest sons and notified the FBI of the additional Q , I '•
information see attached police report. / / ! y/il Law Enforcement Privacy

He advised that as a precaution, thel lha;d his fafnilv j i

spend the evening of October 9,2001 at the Residence Inn, \, California. There have been no additional incidents I I

or sightings of the van at his residence. / i i i

AMMERMAN's two older -tnnsj ~l ^nL,,J * anjived
home from school, were briefly interviewed by SA| | but ;
could add no additional information. |
AMMERMAN and his family were advised to attempt to j
obtain a license plate and nonetheless immediately not'ty ^JL.—!
and the FBI of any additional sightings of the vehicle. AMMERMAN
stated he would also attempt to recall additional identifying
information regarding the date and the flight number of his San
Francisco to Denver flight and any additional details for the
FBI.

Page 2
April 2,2004 3:33 pm
 The following information was obtained from AMMERMAN
through observation and interview:

Name: RICHARD PAUL AMMERMAN, aka

DICK AMMERMAN
Race: White
DOB:
Sex:
Ht:
Wt:
Hair:
Eyes:
Addre 10

Home
phon
Cell or
Occupation: Airline Pilot
Employer: United Airlines '9/11 Personal Privacy
San FranciscoLCA
Employee ID#

[PDF page 3]
265A-NY-280350-302

RICHARD PAUL AMMERMAN 10/10/01 4

SSAN: I
k
Spouse: LORI MARGUERITE AMMERMAN,
0061""
Children: Three

[PDF page 4]

April 2, 2004 3:33 pm Page 3

PEGPRODNO M-INT-00023920
BEGBATES 265A-NY-280350-302-39567
DATE
FBIDESCR
INPUTBATCH NCTA 004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August)
FULLTEXT 9/29/01
On September 17.2001.F I Data of
Birth:]
telephone number!- J, was Intervi bv ALCOHOL.
TOBACCO & FIREARMS ATF Special Agent SA JatlOGAN
INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, Terminal C, East Boston, Massachusetts.
I Jprovided the followjna information:
/9/11 Personal Privacy
Jstatstf ste is a United States oltKenADsL
has no political affiliations of any sort.

L Jhas been employed by HUNTLEIGH SECURITY as a

Pre-Board Screener PBS for approximately one 1 rnortth. Her
usual days off are Friday and Saturday. .Her work shift runs from
0500 through 1300 hours. She works the checkpoint at UNITED
AIRLINES. ..---•' .---" , , /

L Jworked on September 11,2001 but noticed

Js aware that the FEDERAL AVIATION

ADMINISTRATION FAA regulation forfcnive? passing through;"
security is 4<". If a knife exceeds this measurement, she calls
for a supervisor. The supervisor either confiscates the knife op
instructs the individual to check the weapon back at the main i / /
/ / / I II //9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy
I "~1wil1a||ow.a °ox cutter through the // / /
checkpoint, if the blade is removed. An employee miiy pass vyith /
box cutters. /' / / / / / / / /
From October 4r 2C ) through July 6..2001.L J
was previously employed ad 3LOBE AVJATION
SERVICES, AMERICAN A1RLIME5I Terminal B; She s^ted during this
time, approximately four 4 month ago, she observed a Middle
E^stgrn.roin.vjdf.b taping the rnajn.security checkpoint. The man. ir
approximately 5'5"-5'6M had one day's growth or/his beard. She
now knows Win to be MOHAMED ATTA. She Was bothered by ATTA's
filming so she spoke to her supervisor. I T about it.
I Informed her it was a public area and nothing could be
done about it. I has no recollectfbh of this 6vent or

9/17/01 East Boston, MA

265A-NY-280350-302 9/22/01

SAL
[PDF page 1]

265A-NY-280350-302

L J 9/17/01

conversation). She realized it was ATTft when his photo was

displayed on the news. Additionally, she identified ATTA from a
photo array shown to her by SAl I

L jsuggested she would be leaving her job. She

July 2272504 10:30 am" Pagei

 Is angry that Americans get a thorough background completed on
them, but the aliens hired are not subjected to this background
because their records from other countries are not available.
She stated at the end of March and early April, HUNTLEIGH started
hiring Muslims and Arabs.
| Icould not pinpoint any co-worker she felt 9/11 Personal Privacy
might be involved in the terrorist action of September 11,2001.

[PDF page 2]

July 22,2004 10:30 am Page 2

BEGPRODNO M-INT-00081761
BEGBATES 265A-NY-280350-302-49720
DATE 10/06/2001
.lAPJf KFRMS
INPUTBATCH NCTA_004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August)
FLLLTEXT 10/06/2001

On Tuesday, October 2,2001,1 interviewed JACK KERNS.

KERNS was interviewed because on September 24,2001, he came to •9/11 Personal Privacy
the SAC Office in Boston and dropped off material regarding his
possible observation of MOHAMED ATTA and others on a flight he
took to Washington. DC. in May of 2001 .KERNS was interviewed in
\
phone number is.
and his social security number is\

KERNS told me and provided documentation, in FD-340,

that he had traveled from Logan Airport to Washington/Dulles on
May 18,2001. He was on United flight #1951, which left Boston
at 7:29 am. KERNS said that he was seated in the isle seat about
half way back in the coach section on the left side of the plane,
-retefpfshows thathewas aissigned-seat""
stated that two Middle Eastern looking men sat in the seats
directly across from him. He described the one in the isle seat
as tall, over six feet, thin but muscular wearing a new looking
purple or blue turban. He also had a neatly trimmed beard and
mustache. He described the other man as wearing a orange or
reddish stripped turban, was about six feet tall and was/sort of
fat. Both men were in their late thirties to mid forties. Both
spoke English and a second foreign language during the flight.

KERNS said another Middle Eastern man entered the plane

and sat a few rows in front of him. He said that this man kept
moving his seat on the plane, had a thin sheen of sweat on his
face and repeatedly paced the aircraft after take off. At some
point during the trip the two men in the seat next to him took
notice of the man and asked "what is wrong wjth him, what is he
doing?" Later one of these men had a conversation with a fourth
Middle Eastern man who was asked to "...calm him down." This
person then went over to the agitated man, said something and
walked away. KERNS was shown the twelve photo array of the
Boston hijackers and Identified MOHAMEO ATTA as the man who kept
moving around the plane and had been asked to calm down. Using
the same array he identified WALEED ALSHEHRI as the man who
approached ATTA at the request of the two sitting across from
him. KERNS said he was 100% sure of these identifications.

KERNS said that just before takeoff two other Middle

10/02/2001 I 1

265A-NY-280350-302 10/04/2001

L 9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

J
[PDF page 1]

265A-NY-280350-302

Jack Kerns 10/02/2001

Eastern men entered the plane and sat in the seats that faced the
first class partition on his side of the plane. One of these
two, the one who sat in the window seat was described by KERNS as
under six feet tall, chubby, short mustache and beard with

July 22,2004 10:30 am

 glasses. His age was estimated to be late twenties to early
thirties. Using the photo array KERNS identified this person as
MARWAN ALSHEHHI. KERNS was less than 100% sure of this
identification. KERNS stated that between the plane trip and the
time he saw them at thejpaggacie area he became convinced that al
"Iffie^aBove'mentibnea'men weVe'fogefiierVecause^iey spoke to each
other.

KERNS said that while visiting the Jefferson Memorial

he observed some of the above individuals arriving and leaving
the area on one of the trolley tours. From the array he picked
FAYEZ BANIHAMMAD as being with the other men in the area of the
Jefferson Memorial.

MOHAMED ATTA in the Jamaica Plain area this past summer. He said
that in late May or early June, sometime after his trip, he
observed ATTA in the area of Boston Clutch on Washington Street.
KERNS said he went over to him and attempted conversation but
ATTA walked away in the direction of Green Street. Later in the
summer KERNS said that ATTA approached him as he was working at
Hattoff s Oil Company and asked him how much fuel the truck he
was servicing held. When KERNS made a comment about the
Washington trip, he said ATTA just turned and walked away.

A request was made for a copy of the manifest to the

FBI office at United Airlines for flight #1951. I was told that
the manifest would be faxed to the Boston Command Post.

[PDF page 2]

July 22,2004 10:30 am Page 2

 - _
BEGBATES : 265A-NY-280350-302- 103503
DATE = 01/31/2002
FBIDESCR : FERNANDO MURGA INTERVIEW 1/30/02
INPUTBATCH : NCTA 004 (1st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August)
FULLTEXT : FD-302 (Rev. 1 0-6-95)

-1-

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date of transcription 01/31 /2002

FERNANDO MURGA. Baaaaae Screener, Globe Security,

I Boston. Massachusetts MA, was contacted
and advised of the nature of the interview and identity of the

the Spanish language: -::;::^;:'/9/ll Personal Privacy

MURGA advised that in his capacity as a baggage screener
at Logan International Airport, he saw terrorist MOHAMMED ATTA at
the airport a few weeks prior to 9/11/02. He stated that he saw j
ATTA conversing with another Globe Security employee named I
I I Phonetic. It appeared to MURGA that ATTA andl Iknew i
other because of the way they interacted. According to MURGA, C"
|s ofl Tarid routinely allows Arab passengers to pass
through security without the proper scrutiny.

MURGA stated that his story can be corroborated by an

American Airlines.efnployee named PAULINA OTERO. He claimed that
OTERO recently told him that she saw ATTA at the airport talking
with | | two weeks prior to 9/11/02.

MURGA stated that he has reported his observations to the

management of Globe Security but he believes they ignore his
allegations because they don't want controversy.

Investigation on at
1/30/02 .Boston^ MA telephonlcally

File # Date dictated

265A-NY-280350-302 1/31/02
by S/^9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy)

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI
and is loaned to your agency;
it and Its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

[PDF page 1]

July 22, 2004 10:32 am

.BEGPRODNO M-INT-00113695
BEGBATES 265A-NY-280350-302-97231
/9/11 Personal Privacy
DATE 10/12/2001
FBIDESCR ALVIN CASE
INPUTBATCH NCTAJMM (1 st Batch of unredacted 302's delivered in August)
FULLTEXT

10/30/2001

On 10/12/01. ALVIN CASE, white male, DOE

was advised as to the identity of the interviewing agent and the

nature of the interview. CASE advised as follows:

In March, 2001, he was at Lagan Airport. He was near

American Airlines Security area on his way to go to the gate.
CASE was looking at the monitor, and saw an individual staring
back at him. This unknown Individual was put off by CASE'S
stare. They looked at each other for approximately ten seconds.
Then this individual walked out the door. He had also been
studying the monitor of arrivals and departures. He did not have

CASE was shown photo spreads of the five terrorists who

hijacked American Airlines Right #11. CASE Identified WAIL
ALSHEHRI, who is photo #1 on photo spread #3. He further
identified MOHAMED ATTA, who is photo #4 on photo spread #5.
CASE stated that the individual he had seen at Logan Airport was
approximately 6T. This person had longer hair, and was taller
than the biographical information provided by interviewing agent.
The individual also had a gaunt face. CASE felt that the photo
"or AI iA was tne doSesltoJthe~pers6n"TfeluurseerFfeitne airport.

On 10/15/01, CASE telephonically advised the

interviewing agent that he had flown out of Loaan Airport on
March 1,2001. He flew on American TransAir Flight #626. He
would have been at the airport between 8:00 and 10:00 a.m. on the
morning of March 1, 2001. CASE stated that he can sketch
photographs, and would sketch a picture of the person he saw at
Logan Airport.

.„., 10/ia&t5/0.t~ -BosloiyMA ,,.

265A-NY-280350-302 10/29/2001
9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

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Jury 22.2004 10:34 am Page 1