choosing capacitor when translate 3 phase AC motor into single phase -...

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choosing capacitor when translate 3 phase AC motor into single phase

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Thread Tools June 1st, 2008, 06:52 AM

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alezi
Member

choosing capacitor when translate 3 phase AC motor into single phase

Hello colleagues,

Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nova Payova Posts: 9

How it is go on, I have one question, maybe simple for some experts, I need to know, how calculate which capacitor we are need when transformed 3 phase AC motor in single phase motor, I know one formula C= 70 P, when is C in metric units micro F(Farads) and P is power from AC motor in W(Watt), in example: P=100w when computing we are to receive very strange results approximately 700 micro F, of course Im informed about chart for choose volume capacitors.

Thank you for replay Aleksandar

June 1st, 2008, 06:01 PM

#2

eebads2391
Member

Hi Aleksander , Your question is not clear Please explain what you are trying to do

Join Date: May 2008 Location: Stockport Posts: 66

You can run a single phase motor from a 3 phase supply if you have a suitable/safe means of connecting it to a local distribution board Not sure why you are requiring to connect capacitors unless you need to provide power factor correction more information please

June 1st, 2008, 07:58 PM

#3

bernie_carlton
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator

I believe he's trying to do the opposite - run a 3 phase motor from a single phase supply using capacitors in some way. __________________ Controlling outputs is the PLC's way of getting its inputs to change. www.thePLCguy.com

Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Yakima, Washington Posts: 4,293

June 1st, 2008, 09:06 PM

#4 Quote:

Gil47
Member

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20/10/2012 16:06

choosing capacitor when translate 3 phase AC motor into single phase -...

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Originally Posted by alezi I know one formula C= 70 P, when is C in metric units micro F(Farads) and P is power from AC motor in W(Watt), Aleksandar

The above formula is unknown to me, and when I do a google search I also find no formula like it or even similar. We need alot more detail if you would like us to assist you.
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Island, NewZealand Posts: 1,128

June 1st, 2008, 09:28 PM

#5 Quote:

leitmotif
Member

Originally Posted by alezi Hello colleagues,

Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Wa. USA Posts: 3,476

How it is go on, I have one question, maybe simple for some experts, I need to know, how calculate which capacitor we are need when transformed 3 phase AC motor in single phase motor, I know one formula C= 70 P, when is C in metric units micro F(Farads) and P is power from AC motor in W(Watt), in example: P=100w when computing we are to receive very strange results approximately 700 micro F, of course Im informed about chart for choose volume capacitors. Thank you for replay Aleksandar Most confusing. Are you trying to run a single phase motor off 3 phase and need to know the capacitor value for the motor? ANSWER Look on the nameplate or call the factory. Are you trying to run a 3 phase motor on single phase? ANSWER There have been several methods to do this - you can still do any of them. BUT if motor is 3 HP or less you can get VFD to run off 120 single phase 50 HP or less you can get VFD to run off 230 single phase WITH much less hassle and LESS or maybe equal cost. Dan Bentler

June 1st, 2008, 09:38 PM

#6

TConnolly
Member

You will not achieve satisfactory results trying to run a three phase motor on only single phase with a capacitor. However, if you add a second motor as an idler motor with a small capacitor to get the second motor started, then you can achieve some marginal results. The idler motor will generate your third phase, however you won't have the motor full rated power. This set up is called a rotary phase converter, and if you search google.com for rotary phase converter you can find many websites with detailed instructions on how to set one upand how to size the ilder motor and the capacitor. For general purpose three phase motors and three phase motors on simple machine tools this is an economical and frequently used alternative. More expensive options are VFDs and motor/generator sets. __________________ True craftsmanship is only one more power tool away.

Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 5,037

June 1st, 2008, 10:39 PM

#7

bernie_carlton
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator

A couple of links I found regarding this http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ojmsmith/ http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4792740.html __________________ Controlling outputs is the PLC's way of getting its inputs to change. www.thePLCguy.com

Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Yakima, Washington Posts: 4,293

June 2nd, 2008, 04:33 AM

#8

Sparkz
Member

You can run a small (personally had good results up to 0.75kW) 3-phase motor on a single phase net by simply adding a running capacitor. C = 70 x kW (formula for 230/400V 50Hz 3-phase motors to run on a 230V 50Hz single phase supply) For example a 0.37kW motor would require a 25F cap. You'll have to keep in mind that starting torque drops dramatically, but for pumps or other low starting torque applications it is a simple and effective solution (so forget about running an 3-phase air compressor).

Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tessenderlo Posts: 249

Hope this helps

June 4th, 2008, 03:58 PM

#9 Quote:

Lancie1
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator

You can run a small (personally had good results up to 0.75kW) 3-phase motor on a single phase net by simply adding a

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choosing capacitor when translate 3 phase AC motor into single phase -...

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running capacitor.

Sparkz, where do you connect the capacitor? What do you connect to the remaining motor phase wire?

Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 5,809

June 4th, 2008, 05:21 PM

#10 Vsd

Freak
Member

Why not use a single phase to three phase frequency drive, should simply need to connect the motor in Delta instead of star. I have several of htese onsite and they are valiable from a variety of suppliers I use SEW and AB. Cheers Peter

Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barossa Valley Posts: 121

June 4th, 2008, 06:07 PM

#11 Quote:

504bloke
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator

Originally Posted by Lancie1 Sparkz, where do you connect the capacitor? What do you connect to the remaining motor phase wire? On this side of the pond, if the motor is 3 phase star 400V connected then you would connect single phase to 2 legs of the winding in delta and put a capacitor across L and the other delta leg. Dont know if the C value is correct ( i have it at work somewhere ) its a really crude method of running a 3 phase motor on single phase, no starting torque and some motors dont like it and overheat, Normally called Steinmetz Connection from memory and i have even seen this (we do motor rewinds) on OEM manufacturer machinery! Real crappy in my opinion....

Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: West Ssx Posts: 2,610

__________________ Regards Dave

"When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

June 5th, 2008, 02:35 AM

#12

Sparkz
Member

Hi Lancie, Dave beat me to it in answering your question... but also Peter has a good point. Nowadays the cap solution is only used for economical reasons: A perm cap costs around 5 to 10, while a VFD costs about twenty times as much. On the other hand, you wouldn't have to worry about torque when using a VFD, so you could run any application (up to 3kW I think?) on a single phase. BTW, the Steinmetz connection has been around for decades, way before there were "fancy" VFD's ;-)

Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tessenderlo Posts: 249

To Dave: We also do motor rewinds (dad started back in the late 60's).

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June 5th, 2008, 01:36 PM

#13

alezi
Member

Hi, Thanks a lot for respond every body, some people think this is wonder because today we are have many ways for solve this problem like as vfd, problem is money ,one permanent capacitors is much chipper then vfd,I know all about loosing power and moment inertia when three phase motor work like single phase, when motor give us enough power it is better solution, money we are spend on others things.

Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nova Payova Posts: 9

And again thanks for replay, Aleksandar

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