Christian1 Great quotes above; just goes to show that God's moral law is written into our dna

and Jesus made it clearly known, saving us from drowning in a sea of "faith" with the reality of his sacrifice, resurrection, forgiveness and hope for eternal life. Like 3 Yesterday at 9:39am

Atheist 2 "Great quotes above; just goes to show that God's moral law is written into our dna and Jesus made it clearly known" What it really shows is how we don't need Jesus to have morality at all. Like Yesterday at 12:23pm

James Lashley Atheist 2 said:

"What it really shows is how we don't need Jesus to have morality at all."

What it really shows is how, an unbeliever incorporates the concept of morality into their worldview incoherently. Like More Yesterday at 1:32pm

Atheist 2 That comment makes no sense. How is my incorporation of morality incoherent? Like Yesterday at 1:36pm

James Lashley Paul, how do you account for morality in your worldview? Or, from where, or what, do you derive your concept of one thing being good and another thing bad? Like More Yesterday at 2:35pm

Atheist 2

"My ability to swing my arm ends at your nose"...that seems like a pretty good place to start.

In a broader sense, I derive my morality based on what creates the most well-being for the most people. Sam Harris' "Can Science determine human values" details this pretty well. I'd link it, but I know you won't watch it. And... you didn't answer my earlier question. Like Yesterday at 2:45pm

James Lashley Atheist 2 wrote:

"My ability to swing my arm ends at your nose"...that seems like a pretty good place to start."

Why do you assume that would be a good place to start?

"In a broader sense, I derive my morality based on what creates the most well-being for the most people."

Again, why do you assume "morality based on what creates the most well-being for the most people" to be the proper goal, or right. There are some who hold that humanity is a cancer upon the earth and should be eliminated. What grants your position any more validity than theirs?

"Sam Harris' "Can Science determine human values" details this pretty well. I'd link it, but I know you won't watch it."

I think I am already familiar with his position.

"And... you didn't answer my earlier question."

If you hold to a dysteleological evolutionary standpoint, then everything is purposeless. Any morality you attempt to assert is baseless, arbitrary and without any true meaning. Like More Yesterday at 3:08pm

Atheist 2

If you were familiar with his position, you'd know he debunks your assertions on moral relativity. That said, I won't waste my time with someone so incapable of discussing the issue objectively. Or..more imply put...Presuppositional Apologetics sucks. Edited Like Yesterday at 3:14pm

James Lashley Atheist 2 said:

"If you were familiar with his position, you'd know he debunks your assertions on moral relativity."

Assertions on moral relativity...? I am speaking of any morality, whether it be relative or objective. Either way, it ends up arbitrary in your worldview. As far as I can tell, Sam Harris takes a somewhat (faith) position when it comes to morality. Rendering it completely arbitrary and inconsistent when placed into the view that we are nothing but purposeless, advanced pond scum. His view assumes what he tries to prove, and therefore begs the question. So, the argument comes down to... "It's just that way."

"That said, I won't waste my time with someone so incapable of discussing the issue objectively."

What you mean to say is, you won't discuss this with someone who will not capitulate to your presuppositions and simply take them for granted. Because examining the foundational questions are just too hard to deal with and unfair... plus the ad hominem.

"Or..more imply put...Presuppositional Apologetics sucks!"

Indeed, I am sure you think so. Like More Yesterday at 3:51pm

Atheist 2 Tired, tired, tired arguments. As always, I have no problem with the fact that someone disagrees with me. What I have a problem with is your complete arrogance and misrepresentations.

First, don't claim to know anything about my worldview that I haven't confirmed. You're grasping.

Second, I know that it's fashionable to label atheism, humanism and all of those similar ideas as being "faith based", but they're not, and when you use bad language like that, you come off sounding like Kent Hovind.

Finally, you don't even C&P my comments correctly, and if you can't get that right, I have no confidence in any of your derived conclusions. So again, I dont mind that you disagree with me. I mind that you pervert the conversation. Like Yesterday at 4:02pm

James Lashley Atheist 2 said:

"Tired, tired, tired arguments. As always, I have no problem with the fact that someone disagrees with me. What I have a problem with is your complete arrogance and misrepresentations."

My apologies if I have came across as such, that has not been my intent. But, on the other hand if it had been my intent, according to your worldview why is that wrong? What misrepresentations are you speaking of?

"First, don't claim to know anything about my worldview that I haven't confirmed. You're grasping."

Well then, answer my questions regarding your assumptions as they pertain to morality. You have yet to give me anything to work with.

"Second, I know that it's fashionable to label atheism, humanism and all of those similar ideas as being "faith based", but they're not, and when you use bad language like that, you come off sounding like Kent Hovind."

So by virtue of your assertion here, that makes it true.

"Finally, you don't even C&P my comments correctly, and if you can't get that right, I have no confidence in any of your derived conclusions. So again, I dont mind that you disagree with me. I mind that you pervert the conversation."

Please excuse my computer etiquette if it doesn't meet your standard. However, I fail to see the relevancy of that to the issue at hand. How about the standard of morality I am awaiting your justification for? Where have I perverted the conversation?

Can you do this sans the ad hominems?