ACCEPTANCE KEY TO UNITY AMONG RACES

This Wednesday marks the 40th anniversary of May 13 —the worst riots Malaysia has
had, and hopefully the last we will ever have. ANIZA DAMIS speaks to National Unity
and Integration Department director-general DATUK AZMAN AMIN HASSAN on how
far we have come since 1969, and how far we have yet to go

Q: After 40 years, where are we now? As far as unity and integration are concerned,
are we still back in 1969?

A: At the last general election you could see an Indian guy holding up a Pas flag. You'd
never have seen that before. And when I did see it, I thought, "Wah! Good! This is unity, too!"
So, in that sense, there is unity in the ethnic groups, and now there are two big coalitions
controlling the country.

So, in terms of politics, there is some integration, because they are willing to work together.

But since the elections, before the last cabinet reshuffle, there were a lot of sensitive issues
put forth by politicians on both sides. Talk about sending back the Chinese and Indians, the
social contract, the sovereignty of the sultans, etc.

Now, any one party that is very chauvinistic in its approach isn't going to win the
hearts of Malaysians, if they go against the spirit of unity. To rule this country, they
should find ways and means to collaborate with other races.

The opposition has found that this formula works and is collaborating with other parties, too.

So, now you can see the two coalitions in this country.

This is a new development. As a democratic country, we should respect this process of

democratisation, because people can speak their minds, give their views. It's quite healthy.

But we need to control the use of sensitive issues. Marching on the streets — that's not
good. We shouldn't follow what happened in Thailand. We don't want it to happen in this
country.

Last year, we recorded 364 big and small demonstrations in this country.

Q: Voters are not going to put up with racial discrimination, yet political parties are
still racially-based. Does this mean the people have become more mature than
political parties?

A: Yes. Any party which tries to be a chauvinist, won't survive. Malaysians are more matured
now to understand what's going on.

Q: Do you think it's time to get rid of Umno, MCA, MIC, Pas, DAP and all that? Should
we just be Barisan and Pakatan?

A: (laughs) Yes, that would be good.

At the moment the government and opposition coalitions practise power-sharing. But,
hopefully one day we can slowly leave out these politics with regard to race and have
politics that's not related to race any more. I don't know when it's going to happen, or
whether we're ready for it.

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Q: If the government looks after all Malaysians, do we need any one party to look after
any one race?

A:In principle, I agree that we can leave all communal politics and talk about development.
But I wonder about the practicalities — how would we go about it.

We should campaign only on manifesto — not race.

Q: Was the New Economic Policy supposed to be for all races originally?

A: There were two objectives: First of all, to eradicate poverty regardless of race. At that
time, we had about 17 or 19 per cent of poverty, and that has been brought down to 4.7 per
cent now.

In that 4.7 per cent of the hardcore poor, the majority are Malays, but there are also Chinese
and Indians.

In terms of implementation, sometimes the people who were given the responsibility (of
distributing aid) at the lowest level didn't do it.

The JKK (village committee) which was established by the government to help the
government at the grassroots level took the attitude that since they were the JKK, who were
normally Umno people, then, when giving out aid, not only did the JKK discriminate against
the Indians and Chinese, but they also discriminated against Malays from other parties (who
are not Umno members).

These Malays were not put on the list of poor people who needed assistance.

That's why there's not only dissatisfaction among other races, but also among the Malays,
because they are not treated fairly either.

Fairness and justice is what society demands. So, in the end, people end up saying, "Ali,
they just distribute it among themselves. We, who are nobodies and have no cables to pull,
are sidelined and get nothing."

The NEP was also supposed to re-organise society. In terms of economic activity, there was
to be greater participation of Malays in, for instance, accountancy, medicine and business.

So, towards achieving this objective, the government got economically disadvantaged
Bumiputera children to become professionals.

In that, the government has been successful; there are many such people.

But we should admit to our weaknesses and we should present ourselves as Malaysians
first, rather than Malay, Chinese or Indian.

Q: If there are problems between the races, is it because of economic reasons, or is it

because the races just can't get along?

A: The issues are related to economics.

When they are in primary school, the races mix very well, and there are no problems.

But when the children get to Form Six, and the Malays are given special scholarships while
the non-Malays don't get them, that's when a gap occurs. The non-Malays feel, "I am also a
Malaysian, and I am poor. But how is it that the Malays get aid, but I don't?"

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And when they apply for a place in university, they have to apply based on meritocracy, and
that's when this feeling of dissatisfaction arises, because there are some policies which
differentiate between the Malays and non-Malays.

Q: Do more Malaysians have a sense of belonging to Malaysia now?

A: A research was done by the Centre for Public Policy Studies with regard to
patriotism among Malaysian youth. They found that love for the nation and patriotism
is still very very strong.

But the feeling of patriotism is slightly higher in the rural areas than the urban.

Q: Is there a sense of ownership? Do Malaysian youth feel this is their country, they
have an interest in it, they want to invest in it?

A: They like the nation, they love the nation, they are Malaysian and want to see the country
progress. There's no doubt about it.

But then there are some issues, particularly with young non-Malays, when they say they are
third-generation Malaysians. They were born here, their parents were born here, so they feel
they should be treated equally.

They feel the Malays, Chinese and Indians should be treated equally in this country. We're
talking again about scholarship and meritocracy.

Q: Is that an unreasonable expectation?

A: No, it's not unreasonable. This third generation has not been taught the past and are
more open-minded and critical. In the past, we told them, "Your great-grandfathers who
migrated here became Malaysian. They were accepted by the Malays to share this country
as a nation."

No other country did that —gave citizenship rights to immigrants.

In return, Malays had special rights.

But these young non-Malays say, "I'm a third-generation Malaysian, born here. I should get
everything that my Malay friends get."

They are very educated people; it's not that they don't understand history— they know the
history. It's just that they feel, deep inside, that it's time for them to be treated equally.

This is the dilemma, because we say the policy stays. Under the Constitution, Malays have
special rights and they've got to be helped.

However, in terms of implementation, we should reflect the sincerity of the government in

wanting to eradicate poverty. We should show that we also help the Indians and Chinese
and all other Malaysians.

Q: Would Malays need special rights if the government helped everyone?

A: In general, if the Malays are on a par with their Chinese and Indian brothers — in terms of
economics, education and equity — then the Malays won't feel they need, as what former
prime minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad says, the tongkat (crutch) any more.

The Malays in KL are doing very well, so they shouldn't be given any help any more. They've
got to be global, competitive and cannot rely on government assistance.
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For example, if you are a rich Malay with millions in the bank, when you buy a house, you
are eligible for an eight per cent Bumiputera discount, a discount that is supposed to go to
the poor.

If you are rich, you don't need that, and you should feel ashamed for taking it.

The same if you're doing business. If you still expect the government to give you aid and
grants to compete with your Chinese and Indian counterparts, then you should feel
embarrassed.

The government wants you to stand on your own feet and help other Malays. And you
should be able to compete at a global level.

Q: Because it's been 38 years since the introduction of the NEP, should the
government set a final target in which to raise the economic standard of the Malays,
after which, come hell or high water, there will be no more special privileges?

A: Yes. To some extent, we are manja (pampered) because of the affirmative action. We are
not resilient enough. That's what my friends of other races say about us. Getting too much
aid makes you weak.

Malays don't face challenges, and this is a problem. That's why we're a bit slow compared
with our friends, who are very competent.

But the government needs this affirmative action to help the poor. Because if we don't help
them, then they will be stuck in a cycle of poverty.

I agree with you. If the government is brave enough and it has got the political will, then, it
will say, "After 20 years, there's no more aid from the government; we want you to stand up
and compete on your own."

Although under the Constitution Malays have got all these rights, we can stop this for a while
— maybe for 10 years — and see whether Malays can stand and compete on their own.

Although the Constitution is there, it doesn't necessarily mean we should implement these
special privileges.

But the government should have the political will to hold this experiment. It's not easy.

Q: If the government doesn’t have a real target or deadline, it becomes complacent.

A: That's why people say we're just moving the goal-posts. That's why, during the last NEP,
we only achieved about 20 of the 30 per cent equity we were aiming for.

In 10 or 20 years' time, if we keep moving the goalpost, we still won't achieve the 30 per
cent.

Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak wants to see a change in our approach.

We've really got to have a deadline, and work towards it, rather than moving the goal-post.
It's not good.

We are talking about a global world, being competitive, having the edge.

How good would it be if a Malay can combine with a Chinese friend and do some business in
China, or explore the Indian world with their Indian friends.

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We can really conquer the world if we are aggressive enough. But then, we've got to
build up the Malay entrepreneur who is dedicated, who has vision.

And it must not be Ali-Baba; the Malay should not just be a rent-seeking sleeping-
partner.

Q: There are still politicians who refer to the non-Malays as pendatang (newcomer) or
penumpang (squatter). At what point should the anak angkat (adopted child) be
treated as a real anak (child), with all the opportunities and love that an anak should
get?

A: In the first 10 years after independence, a lot of Malays said, "Go back to China!", "Go
back to India!" whenever they weren't happy with the non-Malays. This was because
sometimes the non-Malays didn't show their love for the country.

But, in the process of nation-building, we felt something needed to be done. So, we had
these programmes of unity, to build up the togetherness and pride for this country.

But post-1969, people no longer speak about going back to China or India. Nowadays, you
can feel and see that the Indians and Chinese no longer feel they are part of India or China.

They might go for pilgrimage, but then come back and say, "I don't think I can survive in
India. The crowds. I really appreciate Malaysia; this is the best place to live."

The Chinese and Indians feel that this country is their country. There's a disconnect
with the old country, and a sense of ownership with this one. The bonding of a nation
is there.

Q: Are they anak angkat still?

A: No more.

But some people talk about being second-class citizens just because a certain group enjoys
some benefits and privileges.

But the present government should prove we are together, as one, and we want to develop
this country. We've got to open up.

If one day we manage to really bring up the economy of these three main groups, and share
the playing field equally as we .progress, that's good. Nobody should feel that they are
second-class citizens.

We should tell it to our new generation that we are one, and we are proud to be Malaysian.

Q: There's this feeling that, "You say I'm not a second-class citizen, but you, the
parent, have your favourite."

A: As a parent, we should show that we are concerned about all our kids, and we love them.
This is very important. It happens in most families: one child thinks the parent favours one
child above the others.

But as a parent, we should show our concern for all of them, and this should be reflected in
our government policies and how we implement them.

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For example, if you say that, as a Malaysian we should help the Indians and the Chinese
who are poor, then you should look for them in the kampung and give them scholarships and
help.

Then the whole family will say the government of today is a good one, that they care for us
now, regardless of whether I am DAP or Pas.

If you have prejudice and start to divide the people, then you are forever not going to get the
support. But if you treat the kids nicely and show them that you are sincere, they will believe
in you and maybe they will join you back.

So, there needs to be trust.

Najib talked about acceptance. Every race needs to feel they are accepted. So, this should
be reflected in our policies, in terms of our programmes, that everybody is being accepted,
nobody is being marginalised. We are trying to develop this country, and we need
everybody's support.

Q: If there's trouble in the future, is it most likely to be racial?

A: Yes. In this country, we are multi-religious and multiracial. That is our difference in this
country.

Even if it started in an economic downturn, the trouble is likely to be religious or racial,

because these are the two things that you can see. It goes back to communal and religion.

 anizad@nst.com.my
Column SUNDAY INTERVIEW - New Sunday Times, May 10, 2009