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T'E REP:&<-( by Plato >6H4 &.(.? translated by &enjamin /o ett

T'E -9TR8":(T-89 T'E Republic of Plato is the longest of his orks ith the exception of the <a s! and is certainly the greatest of them. There are nearer approaches to modern metaphysics in the Philebus and in the )ophistO the Politicus or )tatesman is more idealO the form and institutions of the )tate are more clearly dra n out in the <a sO as orks of art! the )ymposium and the Protagoras are of higher excellence. &ut no other "ialogue of Plato has the same largeness of #ie and the same perfection of styleO no other sho s an eNual kno ledge of the orld! or contains more of those thoughts hich are ne as ell as old! and not of one age only but of all. 9o here in Plato is there a deeper irony or a greater ealth of humor or imagery! or more dramatic po er.

9or in any other of his ritings is the attempt made to inter ea#e life and speculation! or to connect politics ith philosophy. The Republic is the centre around hich the other "ialogues may be groupedO here philosophy reaches the highest point to hich ancient thinkers e#er attained. Plato among the Greeks! like &acon among the moderns! as the first ho concei#ed a method of kno ledge! although neither of them al ays distinguished the bare outline or form from the substance of truthO and both of them had to be content ith an abstraction of science hich as not yet reali7ed. 'e as the greatest metaphysical genius hom the orld has seenO and in him! more than in any other ancient thinker! the germs of future kno ledge are contained. The sciences of logic and psychology! hich ha#e supplied so many instruments of thought to afterMages! are based upon the analyses of )ocrates and Plato. The principles of definition! the la of contradiction! the fallacy of arguing in a circle! the distinction bet een the essence and accidents of a thing or notion! bet een means and ends! bet een causes and conditionsO also the di#ision of the mind into the rational! concupiscent! and irascible elements! or of pleasures and desires into necessary and unnecessaryMM these and other great forms of thought are all of them to be found in the Republic! and ere probably first in#ented by Plato. The greatest of all logical truths! and the one of hich riters on philosophy are most apt to lose sight! the difference bet een ords and things! has been most strenuously insisted on by him! although he has not al ays a#oided the confusion of them in his o n ritings. &ut he does not bind up truth in logical formulae!MM logic is still #eiled in metaphysicsO and the science hich he imagines to Econtemplate all truth and all existenceE is #ery unlike the doctrine of the syllogism hich =ristotle claims to ha#e disco#ered. 9either must e forget that the Republic is but the third part of a still larger design hich as to ha#e included an ideal history of =thens! as ell as a political and physical philosophy. The fragment of the (ritias has gi#en birth to a orldMfamous fiction! second only in importance to the tale of Troy and the legend of =rthurO and is said as a fact to ha#e inspired some of the early na#igators of the sixteenth century. This mythical tale! of hich the subject as a history of the ars of the =thenians against the -sland of =tlantis! is supposed to be founded upon an unfinished poem

of )olon! to hich it ould ha#e stood in the same relation as the ritings of the logographers to the poems of 'omer. -t ould ha#e told of a struggle for <iberty! intended to represent the conflict of Persia and 'ellas. We may judge from the noble commencement of the Timaeus! from the fragment of the (ritias itself! and from the third book of the <a s! in hat manner Plato ould ha#e treated this high argument. We can only guess hy the great design as abandonedO perhaps because Plato became sensible of some incongruity in a fictitious history! or because he had lost his interest in it! or because ad#ancing years forbade the completion of itO and e may please oursel#es ith the fancy that had this imaginary narrati#e e#er been finished! e should ha#e found Plato himself sympathi7ing ith the struggle for 'ellenic independence! singing a hymn of triumph o#er ;arathon and )alamis! perhaps making the reflection of 'erodotus here he contemplates the gro th of the =thenian empireMME'o bra#e a thing is freedom of speech! hich has made the =thenians so far exceed e#ery other state of 'ellas in greatnessDE or! more probably! attributing the #ictory to the ancient good order of =thens and to the fa#or of =pollo and =thene. =gain! Plato may be regarded as the EcaptainE >.arhchego7.? or leader of a goodly band of follo ersO for in the Republic is to be found the original of (icero.s "e Republica! of )t. =ugustine.s (ity of God! of the :topia of )ir Thomas ;ore! and of the numerous other imaginary )tates hich are framed upon the same model. The extent to hich =ristotle or the =ristotelian school ere indebted to him in the Politics has been little recogni7ed! and the recognition is the more necessary because it is not made by =ristotle himself. The t o philosophers had more in common than they ere conscious ofO and probably some elements of Plato remain still undetected in =ristotle. -n English philosophy too! many affinities may be traced! not only in the orks of the (ambridge Platonists! but in great original riters like &erkeley or (oleridge! to Plato and his ideas. That there is a truth higher than experience! of hich the mind bears itness to herself! is a con#iction hich in our o n generation has been enthusiastically asserted! and is perhaps gaining ground. 8f the Greek authors ho at the Renaissance brought a ne life into the orld Plato has had the greatest influence. The Republic of Plato is also the first treatise upon education!

of hich the ritings of ;ilton and <ocke! Rousseau! /ean Paul! and Goethe are the legitimate descendants. <ike "ante or &unyan! he has a re#elation of another lifeO like &acon! he is profoundly impressed ith the unity of kno ledgeO in the early (hurch he exercised a real influence on theology! and at the Re#i#al of <iterature on politics. E#en the fragments of his ords hen Erepeated at secondMhandE ha#e in all ages ra#ished the hearts of men! ho ha#e seen reflected in them their o n higher nature. 'e is the father of idealism in philosophy! in politics! in literature. =nd many of the latest conceptions of modern thinkers and statesmen! such as the unity of kno ledge! the reign of la ! and the eNuality of the sexes! ha#e been anticipated in a dream by him. =RG:;E9T The argument of the Republic is the search after /ustice! the nature of hich is first hinted at by (ephalus! the just and blameless old manMM then discussed on the basis of pro#erbial morality by )ocrates and PolemarchusMMthen caricatured by Thrasymachus and partially explained by )ocratesMMreduced to an abstraction by Glaucon and =deimantus! and ha#ing become in#isible in the indi#idual reappears at length in the ideal )tate hich is constructed by )ocrates. The first care of the rulers is to be education! of hich an outline is dra n after the old 'ellenic model! pro#iding only for an impro#ed religion and morality! and more simplicity in music and gymnastic! a manlier strain of poetry! and greater harmony of the indi#idual and the )tate. We are thus led on to the conception of a higher )tate! in hich Eno man calls anything his o n!E and in hich there is neither Emarrying nor gi#ing in marriage!E and Ekings are philosophersE and Ephilosophers are kingsOE and there is another and higher education! intellectual as ell as moral and religious! of science as ell as of art! and not of youth only but of the hole of life. )uch a )tate is hardly to be reali7ed in this orld and ould Nuickly degenerate. To the perfect ideal succeeds the go#ernment of the soldier and the lo#er of honor! this again declining into democracy! and democracy into tyranny! in an imaginary but regular order ha#ing not much resemblance to the actual facts. When Ethe heel has come full circleE e do not begin again ith a ne period of human lifeO but e ha#e passed from the best to the orst! and there e end.

The subject is then changed and the old Nuarrel of poetry and philosophy hich had been more lightly treated in the earlier books of the Republic is no resumed and fought out to a conclusion. Poetry is disco#ered to be an imitation thrice remo#ed from the truth! and 'omer! as ell as the dramatic poets! ha#ing been condemned as an imitator! is sent into banishment along ith them. =nd the idea of the )tate is supplemented by the re#elation of a future life. The di#ision into books! like all similar di#isions! is probably later than the age of Plato. The natural di#isions are fi#e in numberOMM> *? &ook - and the first half of &ook -- do n to the paragraph beginning! E- had al ays admired the genius of Glaucon and =deimantus!E hich is introductoryO the first book containing a refutation of the popular and sophistical notions of justice! and concluding! like some of the earlier "ialogues! ithout arri#ing at any definite result. To this is appended a restatement of the nature of justice according to common opinion! and an ans er is demanded to the NuestionMMWhat is justice! stripped of appearancesK The second di#ision >@? includes the remainder of the second and the hole of the third and fourth books! hich are mainly occupied ith the construction of the first )tate and the first education. The third di#ision >6? consists of the fifth! sixth! and se#enth books! in hich philosophy rather than justice is the subject of inNuiry! and the second )tate is constructed on principles of communism and ruled by philosophers! and the contemplation of the idea of good takes the place of the social and political #irtues. -n the eighth and ninth books >0? the per#ersions of )tates and of the indi#iduals ho correspond to them are re#ie ed in successionO and the nature of pleasure and the principle of tyranny are further analy7ed in the indi#idual man. The tenth book >3? is the conclusion of the hole! in hich the relations of philosophy to poetry are finally determined! and the happiness of the citi7ens in this life! hich has no been assured! is cro ned by the #ision of another. 8r a more general di#ision into t o parts may be adoptedO the first >&ooks - M -%? containing the description of a )tate framed generally in accordance ith 'ellenic notions of religion and morality! hile in the second >&ooks % M J? the 'ellenic )tate is transformed

into an ideal kingdom of philosophy! of hich all other go#ernments are the per#ersions. These t o points of #ie are really opposed! and the opposition is only #eiled by the genius of Plato. The Republic! like the Phaedrus! is an imperfect holeO the higher light of philosophy breaks through the regularity of the 'ellenic temple! hich at last fades a ay into the hea#ens. Whether this imperfection of structure arises from an enlargement of the planO or from the imperfect reconcilement in the riter.s o n mind of the struggling elements of thought hich are no first brought together by himO or! perhaps! from the composition of the ork at different timesMM are Nuestions! like the similar Nuestion about the -liad and the 8dyssey! hich are orth asking! but hich cannot ha#e a distinct ans er. -n the age of Plato there as no regular mode of publication! and an author ould ha#e the less scruple in altering or adding to a ork hich as kno n only to a fe of his friends. There is no absurdity in supposing that he may ha#e laid his labors aside for a time! or turned from one ork to anotherO and such interruptions ould be more likely to occur in the case of a long than of a short riting. -n all attempts to determine the chronological he order of the Platonic ritings on internal e#idence! this uncertainty about any single "ialogue being composed at one time is a disturbing element! hich must be admitted to affect longer orks! such as the Republic and the <a s! more than shorter ones. &ut! on the other hand! the seeming discrepancies of the Republic may only arise out of the discordant elements hich the philosopher has attempted to unite in a single hole! perhaps ithout being himself able to recogni7e the inconsistency hich is ob#ious to us. $or there is a judgment of after ages hich fe great riters ha#e e#er been able to anticipate for themsel#es. They do not percei#e the ant of connection in their o n ritings! or the gaps in their systems hich are #isible enough to those ho come after them. -n the beginnings of literature and philosophy! amid the first efforts of thought and language! more inconsistencies occur than no ! hen the paths of speculation are ell orn and the meaning of ords precisely defined. $or consistency! too! is the gro th of timeO and some of the greatest creations of the human mind ha#e been anting in unity. Tried by this test! se#eral of the Platonic "ialogues! according to our modern ideas! appear to be defecti#e! but the deficiency is no proof that they ere composed at different times or by different hands. =nd the supposition that the Republic as

ritten uninterruptedly and by a continuous effort is in some degree confirmed by the numerous references from one part of the ork to another. The second title! E(oncerning /ustice!E is not the one by hich the Republic is Nuoted! either by =ristotle or generally in antiNuity! and! like the other second titles of the Platonic "ialogues! may therefore be assumed to be of later date. ;orgenstern and others ha#e asked hether the definition of justice! hich is the professed aim! or the construction of the )tate is the principal argument of the ork. The ans er is! that the t o blend in one! and are t o faces of the same truthO for justice is the order of the )tate! and the )tate is the #isible embodiment of justice under the conditions of human society. The one is the soul and the other is the body! and the Greek ideal of the )tate! as of the indi#idual! is a fair mind in a fair body. -n 'egelian phraseology the )tate is the reality of hich justice is the ideal. 8r! described in (hristian language! the kingdom of God is ithin! and yet de#elops into a (hurch or external kingdomO Ethe house not made ith hands! eternal in the hea#ens!E is reduced to the proportions of an earthly building. 8r! to use a Platonic image! justice and the )tate are the arp and the oof hich run through the hole texture. =nd hen the constitution of the )tate is completed! the conception of justice is not dismissed! but reappears under the same or different names throughout the ork! both as the inner la of the indi#idual soul! and finally as the principle of re ards and punishments in another life. The #irtues are based on justice! of hich common honesty in buying and selling is the shado ! and justice is based on the idea of good! hich is the harmony of the orld! and is reflected both in the institutions of )tates and in motions of the hea#enly bodies. The Timaeus! hich takes up the political rather than the ethical side of the Republic! and is chiefly occupied ith hypotheses concerning the out ard orld! yet contains many indications that the same la is supposed to reign o#er the )tate! o#er nature! and o#er man. Too much! ho e#er! has been made of this Nuestion both in ancient and in modern times. There is a stage of criticism in hich all orks! hether of nature or of art! are referred to design.

9o in ancient ritings! and indeed in literature generally! there remains often a large element hich as not comprehended in the original design. $or the plan gro s under the author.s handO ne thoughts occur to him in the act of ritingO he has not orked out the argument to the end before he begins. The reader ho seeks to find some one idea under hich the hole may be concei#ed! must necessarily sei7e on the #aguest and most general. Thus )tallbaum! ho is dissatisfied ith the ordinary explanations of the argument of the Republic! imagines himself to ha#e found the true argument Ein the representation of human life in a )tate perfected by justice and go#erned according to the idea of good.E There may be some use in such general descriptions! but they can hardly be said to express the design of the riter. The truth is! that e may as ell speak of many designs as of oneO nor need anything be excluded from the plan of a great ork to hich the mind is naturally led by the association of ideas! and hich does not interfere ith the general purpose. What kind or degree of unity is to be sought after in a building! in the plastic arts! in poetry! in prose! is a problem hich has to be determined relati#ely to the subjectMmatter. To Plato himself! the inNuiry E hat as the intention of the riter!E or E hat as the principal argument of the RepublicE ould ha#e been hardly intelligible! and therefore had better be at once dismissed. -s not the Republic the #ehicle of three or four great truths hich! to Plato.s o n mind! are most naturally represented in the form of the )tateK /ust as in the /e ish prophets the reign of ;essiah! or Ethe day of the <ord!E or the suffering )er#ant or people of God! or the E)un of righteousness ith healing in his ingsE only con#ey! to us at least! their great spiritual ideals! so through the Greek )tate Plato re#eals to us his o n thoughts about di#ine perfection! hich is the idea of goodMMlike the sun in the #isible orldOMMabout human perfection! hich is justiceMM about education beginning in youth and continuing in later yearsMM about poets and sophists and tyrants ho are the false teachers and e#il rulers of mankindMMabout Ethe orldE hich is the embodiment of themMMabout a kingdom hich exists no here upon earth but is laid up in hea#en to be the pattern and rule of human life. 9o such inspired creation is at unity ith itself! any more than the clouds of hea#en hen the sun pierces through them.

E#ery shade of light and dark! of truth! and of fiction hich is the #eil of truth! is allo able in a ork of philosophical imagination. -t is not all on the same planeO it easily passes from ideas to myths and fancies! from facts to figures of speech. -t is not prose but poetry! at least a great part of it! and ought not to be judged by the rules of logic or the probabilities of history. The riter is not fashioning his ideas into an artistic holeO they take possession of him and are too much for him. We ha#e no need therefore to discuss hether a )tate such as Plato has concei#ed is practicable or not! or hether the out ard form or the in ard life came first into the mind of the riter. $or the practicability of his ideas has nothing to do ith their truthO and the highest thoughts to hich he attains may be truly said to bear the greatest Emarks of designEMMjustice more than the external frameM ork of the )tate! the idea of good more than justice. The great science of dialectic or the organi7ation of ideas has no real contentO but is only a type of the method or spirit in hich the higher kno ledge is to be pursued by the spectator of all time and all existence. -t is in the fifth! sixth! and se#enth books that Plato reaches the Esummit of speculation!E and these! although they fail to satisfy the reNuirements of a modern thinker! may therefore be regarded as the most important! as they are also the most original! portions of the ork. -t is not necessary to discuss at length a minor Nuestion hich has been raised by &oeckh! respecting the imaginary date at hich the con#ersation as held >the year 0** &. (. hich is proposed by him ill do as ell as any other?O for a riter of fiction! and especially a riter ho! like Plato! is notoriously careless of chronology! only aims at general probability. Whether all the persons mentioned in the Republic could e#er ha#e met at any one time is not a difficulty hich ould ha#e occurred to an =thenian reading the ork forty years later! or to Plato himself at the time of riting >any more than to )hakespeare respecting one of his o n dramas?O and need not greatly trouble us no . Let this may be a Nuestion ha#ing no ans er E hich is still orth asking!E because the in#estigation sho s that e can not argue historically from the dates in PlatoO it ould be useless therefore to aste time in in#enting farMfetched reconcilements of them in order a#oid chronological difficulties! such! for example! as the conjecture of (. $. 'ermann! that Glaucon

and =deimantus are not the brothers but the uncles of Plato! or the fancy of )tallbaum that Plato intentionally left anachronisms indicating the dates at hich some of his "ialogues ere ritten. ('=R=(TER) The principal characters in the Republic are (ephalus! Polemarchus! Thrasymachus! )ocrates! Glaucon! and =deimantus. (ephalus appears in the introduction only! Polemarchus drops at the end of the first argument! and Thrasymachus is reduced to silence at the close of the first book. The main discussion is carried on by )ocrates! Glaucon! and =deimantus. =mong the company are <ysias >the orator? and Euthydemus! the sons of (ephalus and brothers of Polemarchus! an unkno n (harmantidesMMthese are mute auditorsO also there is (leitophon! ho once interrupts! here! as in the "ialogue hich bears his name! he appears as the friend and ally of Thrasymachus. (ephalus! the patriarch of house! has been appropriately engaged in offering a sacrifice. 'e is the pattern of an old man ho has almost done ith life! and is at peace ith himself and ith all mankind. 'e feels that he is dra ing nearer to the orld belo ! and seems to linger around the memory of the past. 'e is eager that )ocrates should come to #isit him! fond of the poetry of the last generation! happy in the consciousness of a ellMspent life! glad at ha#ing escaped from the tyranny of youthful lusts. 'is lo#e of con#ersation! his affection! his indifference to riches! e#en his garrulity! are interesting traits of character. 'e is not one of those ho ha#e nothing to say! because their hole mind has been absorbed in making money. Let he ackno ledges that riches ha#e the ad#antage of placing men abo#e the temptation to dishonesty or falsehood. The respectful attention sho n to him by )ocrates! hose lo#e of con#ersation! no less than the mission imposed upon him by the 8racle! leads him to ask Nuestions of all men! young and old alike! should also be noted. Who better suited to raise the Nuestion of justice than (ephalus! hose life might seem to be the expression of itK The moderation ith hich old age is pictured by (ephalus as a #ery tolerable portion of existence is characteristic! not only of him! but of Greek feeling generally! and contrasts ith the exaggeration of (icero in the "e )enectute. The e#ening of life is described by Plato

in the most expressi#e manner! yet ith the fe est possible touches. =s (icero remarks >Ep. ad =ttic. i#. *H?! the aged (ephalus ould ha#e been out of place in the discussion hich follo s! and hich he could neither ha#e understood nor taken part in ithout a #iolation of dramatic propriety. 'is Eson and heirE Polemarchus has the frankness and impetuousness of youthO he is for detaining )ocrates by force in the opening scene! and ill not Elet him offE on the subject of omen and children. <ike (ephalus! he is limited in his point of #ie ! and represents the pro#erbial stage of morality hich has rules of life rather than principlesO and he Nuotes )imonides as his father had Nuoted Pindar. &ut after this he has no more to sayO the ans ers hich he makes are only elicited from him by the dialectic of )ocrates. 'e has not yet experienced the influence of the )ophists like Glaucon and =deimantus! nor is he sensible of the necessity of refuting themO he belongs to the preM)ocratic or preMdialectical age. 'e is incapable of arguing! and is be ildered by )ocrates to such a degree that he does not kno hat he is saying. 'e is made to admit that justice is a thief! and that the #irtues follo the analogy of the arts. $rom his brother <ysias e learn that he fell a #ictim to the Thirty Tyrants! but no allusion is here made to his fate! nor to the circumstance that (ephalus and his family ere of )yracusan origin! and had migrated from Thurii to =thens. The E(halcedonian giant!E Thrasymachus! of hom e ha#e already heard in the Phaedrus! is the personification of the )ophists! according to Plato.s conception of them! in some of their orst characteristics. 'e is #ain and blustering! refusing to discourse unless he is paid! fond of making an oration! and hoping thereby to escape the ine#itable )ocratesO but a mere child in argument! and unable to foresee that the next Emo#eE >to use a Platonic expression? ill Eshut him up.E 'e has reached the stage of framing general notions! and in this respect is in ad#ance of (ephalus and Polemarchus. &ut he is incapable of defending them in a discussion! and #ainly tries to co#er his confusion in banter and insolence. Whether such doctrines as are attributed to him by Plato ere really held either by him or by any other )ophist is uncertainO in the infancy of philosophy serious errors about morality might easily gro upMM

they are certainly put into the mouths of speakers in ThucydidesO but e are concerned at present ith Plato.s description of him! and not ith the historical reality. The ineNuality of the contest adds greatly to the humor of the scene. The pompous and empty )ophist is utterly helpless in the hands of the great master of dialectic! ho kno s ho to touch all the springs of #anity and eakness in him. 'e is greatly irritated by the irony of )ocrates! but his noisy and imbecile rage only lays him more and more open to the thrusts of his assailant. 'is determination to cram do n their throats! or put Ebodily into their soulsE his o n ords! elicits a cry of horror from )ocrates. The state of his temper is Nuite as orthy of remark as the process of the argument. 9othing is more amusing than his complete submission hen he has been once thoroughly beaten. =t first he seems to continue the discussion ith reluctance! but soon ith apparent goodM ill! and he e#en testifies his interest at a later stage by one or t o occasional remarks. When attacked by Glaucon he is humorously protected by )ocrates Eas one ho has ne#er been his enemy and is no his friend.E $rom (icero and Puintilian and from =ristotle.s Rhetoric e learn that the )ophist hom Plato has made so ridiculous as a man of note hose ritings ere preser#ed in later ages. The play on his name hich as made by his contemporary 'erodicus! Ethou ast e#er bold in battle!E seems to sho that the description of him is not de#oid of #erisimilitude. When Thrasymachus has been silenced! the t o principal respondents! Glaucon and =deimantus! appear on the sceneA here! as in Greek tragedy! three actors are introduced. =t first sight the t o sons of =riston may seem to ear a family likeness! like the t o friends )immias and (ebes in the Phaedo. &ut on a nearer examination of them the similarity #anishes! and they are seen to be distinct characters. Glaucon is the impetuous youth ho can Ejust ne#er ha#e enough of fechtingE >cf. the character of him in Jen. ;em. iii. H?O the man of pleasure ho is acNuainted ith the mysteries of lo#eO the Eju#enis Nui gaudet canibus!E and ho impro#es the breed of animalsO the lo#er of art and music ho has all the experiences of youthful life. 'e is full of Nuickness and penetration! piercing easily belo the clumsy platitudes of Thrasymachus to the real difficultyO he turns out to the light the seamy side of human life! and yet

does not lose faith in the just and true. -t is Glaucon ho sei7es hat may be termed the ludicrous relation of the philosopher to the orld! to hom a state of simplicity is Ea city of pigs!E ho is al ays prepared ith a jest hen the argument offers him an opportunity! and ho is e#er ready to second the humor of )ocrates and to appreciate the ridiculous! hether in the connoisseurs of music! or in the lo#ers of theatricals! or in the fantastic beha#ior of the citi7ens of democracy. 'is eaknesses are se#eral times alluded to by )ocrates! ho! ho e#er! ill not allo him to be attacked by his brother =deimantus. 'e is a soldier! and! like =deimantus! has been distinguished at the battle of ;egara. The character of =deimantus is deeper and gra#er! and the profounder objections are commonly put into his mouth. Glaucon is more demonstrati#e! and generally opens the game. =deimantus pursues the argument further. Glaucon has more of the li#eliness and Nuick sympathy of youthO =deimantus has the maturer judgment of a gro nMup man of the orld. -n the second book! hen Glaucon insists that justice and injustice shall be considered ithout regard to their conseNuences! =deimantus remarks that they are regarded by mankind in general only for the sake of their conseNuencesO and in a similar #ein of reflection he urges at the beginning of the fourth book that )ocrates falls in making his citi7ens happy! and is ans ered that happiness is not the first but the second thing! not the direct aim but the indirect conseNuence of the good go#ernment of a )tate. -n the discussion about religion and mythology! =deimantus is the respondent! but Glaucon breaks in ith a slight jest! and carries on the con#ersation in a lighter tone about music and gymnastic to the end of the book. -t is =deimantus again ho #olunteers the criticism of common sense on the )ocratic method of argument! and ho refuses to let )ocrates pass lightly o#er the Nuestion of omen and children. -t is =deimantus ho is the respondent in the more argumentati#e! as Glaucon in the lighter and more imaginati#e portions of the "ialogue. $or example! throughout the greater part of the sixth book! the causes of the corruption of philosophy and the conception of the idea of good are discussed ith =deimantus. Then Glaucon resumes his place of principal respondentO but he has a difficulty in apprehending the higher education of )ocrates! and makes some false hits in the course of the discussion. 8nce more =deimantus returns ith the allusion

to his brother Glaucon hom he compares to the contentious )tateO in the next book he is again superseded! and Glaucon continues to the end. Thus in a succession of characters Plato represents the successi#e stages of morality! beginning ith the =thenian gentleman of the olden time! ho is follo ed by the practical man of that day regulating his life by pro#erbs and sa sO to him succeeds the ild generali7ation of the )ophists! and lastly come the young disciples of the great teacher! ho kno the sophistical arguments but ill not be con#inced by them! and desire to go deeper into the nature of things. These too! like (ephalus! Polemarchus! Thrasymachus! are clearly distinguished from one another. 9either in the Republic! nor in any other "ialogue of Plato! is a single character repeated. The delineation of )ocrates in the Republic is not holly consistent. -n the first book e ha#e more of the real )ocrates! such as he is depicted in the ;emorabilia of Jenophon! in the earliest "ialogues of Plato! and in the =pology. 'e is ironical! pro#oking! Nuestioning! the old enemy of the )ophists! ready to put on the mask of )ilenus as ell as to argue seriously. &ut in the sixth book his enmity to ards the )ophists abatesO he ackno ledges that they are the representati#es rather than the corrupters of the orld. 'e also becomes more dogmatic and constructi#e! passing beyond the range either of the political or the speculati#e ideas of the real )ocrates. -n one passage Plato himself seems to intimate that the time had no come for )ocrates! ho had passed his hole life in philosophy! to gi#e his o n opinion and not to be al ays repeating the notions of other men. There is no e#idence that either the idea of good or the conception of a perfect )tate ere comprehended in the )ocratic teaching! though he certainly d elt on the nature of the uni#ersal and of final causes >cp. Jen. ;em. i. 0O Phaedo +,?O and a deep thinker like him in his thirty or forty years of public teaching! could hardly ha#e falled to touch on the nature of family relations! for hich there is also some positi#e e#idence in the ;emorabilia >;em. i. @! 3* foll.? The )ocratic method is nominally retainedO and e#ery inference is either put into the mouth of the respondent or represented as the common disco#ery of him and )ocrates. &ut any one can see that this is a mere form! of hich the affectation

gro s earisome as the ork ad#ances. The method of inNuiry has passed into a method of teaching in hich by the help of interlocutors the same thesis is looked at from #arious points of #ie . The nature of the process is truly characteri7ed by Glaucon! hen he describes himself as a companion ho is not good for much in an in#estigation! but can see hat he is sho n! and may! perhaps! gi#e the ans er to a Nuestion more fluently than another. 9either can e be absolutely certain that! )ocrates himself taught the immortality of the soul! hich is unkno n to his disciple Glaucon in the RepublicO nor is there any reason to suppose that he used myths or re#elations of another orld as a #ehicle of instruction! or that he ould ha#e banished poetry or ha#e denounced the Greek mythology. 'is fa#orite oath is retained! and a slight mention is made of the daemonium! or internal sign! hich is alluded to by )ocrates as a phenomenon peculiar to himself. = real element of )ocratic teaching! hich is more prominent in the Republic than in any of the other "ialogues of Plato! is the use of example and illustration >.taphorhtika auto prhospherhonte7.?A E<et us apply the test of common instances.E ELou!E says =deimantus! ironically! in the sixth book! Eare so unaccustomed to speak in images.E =nd this use of examples or images! though truly )ocratic in origin! is enlarged by the genius of Plato into the form of an allegory or parable! hich embodies in the concrete hat has been already described! or is about to be described! in the abstract. Thus the figure of the ca#e in &ook %-is a recapitulation of the di#isions of kno ledge in &ook %-. The composite animal in &ook -J is an allegory of the parts of the soul. The noble captain and the ship and the true pilot in &ook %- are a figure of the relation of the people to the philosophers in the )tate hich has been described. 8ther figures! such as the dog in the second! third! and fourth books! or the marriage of the portionless maiden in the sixth book! or the drones and asps in the eighth and ninth books! also form links of connection in long passages! or are used to recall pre#ious discussions. Plato is most true to the character of his master hen he describes him as Enot of this orld.E =nd ith this representation of him

the ideal )tate and the other paradoxes of the Republic are Nuite in accordance! though they can not be sho n to ha#e been speculations of )ocrates. To him! as to other great teachers both philosophical and religious! hen they looked up ard! the orld seemed to be the embodiment of error and e#il. The common sense of mankind has re#olted against this #ie ! or has only partially admitted it. =nd e#en in )ocrates himself the sterner judgment of the multitude at times passes into a sort of ironical pity or lo#e. ;en in general are incapable of philosophy! and are therefore at enmity ith the philosopherO but their misunderstanding of him is una#oidableA for they ha#e ne#er seen him as he truly is in his o n imageO they are only acNuainted ith artificial systems possessing no nati#e force of truthMM ords hich admit of many applications. Their leaders ha#e nothing to measure ith! and are therefore ignorant of their o n stature. &ut they are to be pitied or laughed at! not to be Nuarrelled ithO they mean ell ith their nostrums! if they could only learn that they are cutting off a 'ydra.s head. This moderation to ards those ho are in error is one of the most characteristic features of )ocrates in the Republic. -n all the different representations of )ocrates! hether of Jenophon or Plato! and the differences of the earlier or later "ialogues! he al ays retains the character of the un earied and disinterested seeker after truth! ithout hich he ould ha#e ceased to be )ocrates. <ea#ing the characters e may no analy7e the contents of the Republic! and then proceed to consider >*? The general aspects of this 'ellenic ideal of the )tate! >@? The modern lights in hich the thoughts of Plato may be read.

&88Q )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 - WE9T do n yesterday to the Piraeus ith Glaucon the son of =riston!

that - might offer up my prayers to the goddessO and also because anted to see in hat manner they ould celebrate the festi#al! hich as a ne thing. - as delighted ith the procession of the inhabitantsO but that of the Thracians as eNually! if not more! beautiful. When e had finished our prayers and #ie ed the spectacle! e turned in the direction of the cityO and at that instant Polemarchus the son of (ephalus chanced to catch sight of us from a distance as e ere starting on our ay home! and told his ser#ant to run and bid us ait for him. The ser#ant took hold of me by the cloak behind! and saidA Polemarchus desires you to ait. - turned round! and asked him here his master as. There he is! said the youth! coming after you! if you ill only ait. (ertainly e ill! said GlauconO and in a fe minutes Polemarchus appeared! and ith him =deimantus! Glaucon.s brother! 9iceratus the son of 9icias! and se#eral others ho had been at the procession. )8(R=TE) M P8<E;=R(':) M G<=:(89 M ="E-;=9T:) Polemarchus said to meA - percei#e! )ocrates! that you and our companion are already on your ay to the city. Lou are not far rong! - said. &ut do you see! he rejoined! ho many e areK 8f course. =nd are you stronger than all theseK for if not! you ill ha#e to remain here you are. ;ay there not be the alternati#e! - said! that e may persuade you to let us goK &ut can you persuade us! if e refuse to listen to youK he said.

(ertainly not! replied Glaucon. Then e are not going to listenO of that you may be assured. =deimantus addedA 'as no one told you of the torchMrace on horseback in honour of the goddess hich ill take place in the e#eningK With horsesD - repliedA That is a no#elty. Will horsemen carry torches and pass them one to another during the raceK Les! said Polemarchus! and not only so! but a festi#al ill he celebrated at night! hich you certainly ought to see. <et us rise soon after supper and see this festi#alO there ill be a gathering of young men! and e ill ha#e a good talk. )tay then! and do not be per#erse. Glaucon saidA - suppose! since you insist! that e must. %ery good! - replied. G<=:(89 M (EP'=<:) M )8(R=TE) =ccordingly e ent ith Polemarchus to his houseO and there e found his brothers <ysias and Euthydemus! and ith them Thrasymachus the (halcedonian! (harmantides the Paeanian! and (leitophon the son of =ristonymus. There too as (ephalus the father of Polemarchus! hom - had not seen for a long time! and - thought him #ery much aged. 'e as seated on a cushioned chair! and had a garland on his head! for he had been sacrificing in the courtO and there ere some other chairs in the room arranged in a semicircle! upon hich e sat do n by him. 'e saluted me eagerly! and then he saidAMM Lou don.t come to see me! )ocrates! as often as you oughtA -f - ere still able to go and see you - ould not ask you to come to me. &ut at my age - can hardly get to the city! and therefore you should come oftener to the Piraeus. $or let me tell you! that the more the pleasures of the body fade a ay! the greater to me is the pleasure and charm of con#ersation. "o not then deny my reNuest! but make our house your resort and keep company ith these young menO e are old friends! and you ill be

Nuite at home ith us. - repliedA There is nothing hich for my part - like better! (ephalus! than con#ersing ith aged menO for - regard them as tra#ellers ho ha#e gone a journey hich - too may ha#e to go! and of hom - ought to enNuire! hether the ay is smooth and easy! or rugged and difficult. =nd this is a Nuestion hich - should like to ask of you ho ha#e arri#ed at that time hich the poets call the Tthreshold of old age.MM-s life harder to ards the end! or hat report do you gi#e of itK - ill tell you! )ocrates! he said! hat my o n feeling is. ;en of my age flock togetherO e are birds of a feather! as the old pro#erb saysO and at our meetings the tale of my acNuaintance commonly isMM- cannot eat! - cannot drinkO the pleasures of youth and lo#e are fled a ayA there as a good time once! but no that is gone! and life is no longer life. )ome complain of the slights hich are put upon them by relations! and they ill tell you sadly of ho many e#ils their old age is the cause. &ut to me! )ocrates! these complainers seem to blame that hich is not really in fault. $or if old age ere the cause! - too being old! and e#ery other old man! ould ha#e felt as they do. &ut this is not my o n experience! nor that of others hom - ha#e kno n. 'o ell - remember the aged poet )ophocles! hen in ans er to the Nuestion! 'o does lo#e suit ith age! )ophocles!MMare you still the man you ereK Peace! he repliedO most gladly ha#e - escaped the thing of hich you speakO - feel as if - had escaped from a mad and furious master. 'is ords ha#e often occurred to my mind since! and they seem as good to me no as at the time hen he uttered them. $or certainly old age has a great sense of calm and freedomO hen the passions relax their hold! then! as )ophocles says! e are freed from the grasp not of one mad master only! but of many. The truth is! )ocrates! that these regrets! and also the complaints about relations! are to be attributed to the same cause! hich is not old age! but men.s characters and tempersO for he ho is of a calm and happy nature ill hardly feel the pressure of age! but to him ho is of an opposite disposition youth and age are eNually a burden. - listened in admiration! and anting to dra him out! that he

might go onMMLes! (ephalus! - saidA but - rather suspect that people in general are not con#inced by you hen you speak thusO they think that old age sits lightly upon you! not because of your happy disposition! but because you are rich! and ealth is ell kno n to be a great comforter. Lou are right! he repliedO they are not con#incedA and there is something in hat they sayO not! ho e#er! so much as they imagine. - might ans er them as Themistocles ans ered the )eriphian ho as abusing him and saying that he as famous! not for his o n merits but because he as an =thenianA T-f you had been a nati#e of my country or - of yours! neither of us ould ha#e been famous.. =nd to those ho are not rich and are impatient of old age! the same reply may be madeO for to the good poor man old age cannot be a light burden! nor can a bad rich man e#er ha#e peace ith himself. ;ay - ask! (ephalus! hether your fortune as for the most part inherited or acNuired by youK =cNuiredD )ocratesO do you ant to kno ho much - acNuiredK -n the art of making money - ha#e been mid ay bet een my father and grandfatherA for my grandfather! hose name - bear! doubled and trebled the #alue of his patrimony! that hich he inherited being much hat - possess no O but my father <ysanias reduced the property belo hat it is at presentA and - shall be satisfied if - lea#e to these my sons not less but a little more than - recei#ed. That as hy - asked you the Nuestion! - replied! because - see that you are indifferent about money! hich is a characteristic rather of those ho ha#e inherited their fortunes than of those ho ha#e acNuired themO the makers of fortunes ha#e a second lo#e of money as a creation of their o n! resembling the affection of authors for their o n poems! or of parents for their children! besides that natural lo#e of it for the sake of use and profit hich is common to them and all men. =nd hence they are #ery bad company! for they can talk about nothing but the praises of ealth. That is true! he said. Les! that is #ery true! but may - ask another NuestionK

What do you consider to be the greatest blessing hich you ha#e reaped from your ealthK 8ne! he said! of hich - could not expect easily to con#ince others. $or let me tell you! )ocrates! that hen a man thinks himself to be near death! fears and cares enter into his mind hich he ne#er had beforeO the tales of a orld belo and the punishment hich is exacted there of deeds done here ere once a laughing matter to him! but no he is tormented ith the thought that they may be trueA either from the eakness of age! or because he is no dra ing nearer to that other place! he has a clearer #ie of these thingsO suspicions and alarms cro d thickly upon him! and he begins to reflect and consider hat rongs he has done to others. =nd hen he finds that the sum of his transgressions is great he ill many a time like a child start up in his sleep for fear! and he is filled ith dark forebodings. &ut to him ho is conscious of no sin! s eet hope! as Pindar charmingly says! is the kind nurse of his ageA 'ope! he says! cherishes the soul of him ho li#es in justice and holiness and is the nurse of his age and the companion of his journeyOMMhope hich is mightiest to s ay the restless soul of man. 'o admirable are his ordsD =nd the great blessing of riches! - do not say to e#ery man! but to a good man! is! that he has had no occasion to decei#e or to defraud others! either intentionally or unintentionallyO and hen he departs to the orld belo he is not in any apprehension about offerings due to the gods or debts hich he o es to men. 9o to this peace of mind the possession of ealth greatly contributesO and therefore - say! that! setting one thing against another! of the many ad#antages hich ealth has to gi#e! to a man of sense this is in my opinion the greatest. Well said! (ephalus! - repliedO but as concerning justice! hat is itKMM to speak the truth and to pay your debtsMMno more than thisK =nd e#en to this are there not exceptionsK )uppose that a friend hen in his right mind has deposited arms ith me and he asks for them hen he is not in his right mind! ought - to gi#e them back to himK 9o one ould say that - ought or that - should be right in doing so!

any more than they ould say that - ought al ays to speak the truth to one ho is in his condition. Lou are Nuite right! he replied. &ut then! - said! speaking the truth and paying your debts is not a correct definition of justice. (EP'=<:) M )8(R=TE) M P8<E;=R(':) Puite correct! )ocrates! if )imonides is to be belie#ed! said Polemarchus interposing. - fear! said (ephalus! that - must go no ! for - ha#e to look after the sacrifices! and - hand o#er the argument to Polemarchus and the company. -s not Polemarchus your heirK - said. To be sure! he ans ered! and ent a ay laughing to the sacrifices. )8(R=TE) M P8<E;=R(':) Tell me then! 8 thou heir of the argument! hat did )imonides say! and according to you truly say! about justiceK 'e said that the repayment of a debt is just! and in saying so he appears to me to be right. - should be sorry to doubt the ord of such a ise and inspired man! but his meaning! though probably clear to you! is the re#erse of clear to me. $or he certainly does not mean! as e ere no saying that - ought to return a return a deposit of arms or of anything else to one ho asks for it hen he is not in his right sensesO and yet a deposit cannot be denied to be a debt. True. Then hen the person ho asks me is not in his right mind - am by no means to make the returnK

(ertainly not. When )imonides said that the repayment of a debt as justice! he did not mean to include that caseK (ertainly notO for he thinks that a friend ought al ays to do good to a friend and ne#er e#il. Lou mean that the return of a deposit of gold hich is to the injury of the recei#er! if the t o parties are friends! is not the repayment of a debt!MMthat is hat you ould imagine him to sayK Les. =nd are enemies also to recei#e hat e o e to themK To be sure! he said! they are to recei#e hat e o e them! and an enemy! as - take it! o es to an enemy that hich is due or proper to himMM that is to say! e#il. )imonides! then! after the manner of poets! ould seem to ha#e spoken darkly of the nature of justiceO for he really meant to say that justice is the gi#ing to each man hat is proper to him! and this he termed a debt. That must ha#e been his meaning! he said. &y hea#enD - repliedO and if e asked him hat due or proper thing is gi#en by medicine! and to hom! hat ans er do you think that he ould make to usK 'e ould surely reply that medicine gi#es drugs and meat and drink to human bodies. =nd hat due or proper thing is gi#en by cookery! and to hatK )easoning to food. =nd hat is that hich justice gi#es! and to homK

-f! )ocrates! e are to be guided at all by the analogy of the preceding instances! then justice is the art hich gi#es good to friends and e#il to enemies. That is his meaning thenK - think so. =nd ho is best able to do good to his friends and e#il to his enemies in time of sicknessK The physician. 8r hen they are on a #oyage! amid the perils of the seaK The pilot. =nd in hat sort of actions or ith a #ie to hat result is the just man most able to do harm to his enemy and good to his friendsK -n going to ar against the one and in making alliances ith the other. &ut hen a man is ell! my dear Polemarchus! there is no need of a physicianK 9o. =nd he ho is not on a #oyage has no need of a pilotK 9o. Then in time of peace justice ill be of no useK - am #ery far from thinking so. Lou think that justice may be of use in peace as ell as in arK Les.

<ike husbandry for the acNuisition of cornK Les. 8r like shoemaking for the acNuisition of shoes!MMthat is hat you meanK Les. =nd hat similar use or po er of acNuisition has justice in time of peaceK -n contracts! )ocrates! justice is of use. =nd by contracts you mean partnershipsK Exactly. &ut is the just man or the skilful player a more useful and better partner at a game of draughtsK The skilful player. =nd in the laying of bricks and stones is the just man a more useful or better partner than the builderK Puite the re#erse. Then in hat sort of partnership is the just man a better partner than the harpMplayer! as in playing the harp the harpMplayer is certainly a better partner than the just manK -n a money partnership. Les! Polemarchus! but surely not in the use of moneyO for you do not ant a just man to be your counsellor the purchase or sale of a horseO a man ho is kno ing about horses ould be better for that! ould he notK (ertainly.

=nd hen you ant to buy a ship! the ship right or the pilot ould be betterK True. Then hat is that joint use of sil#er or gold in hich the just man is to be preferredK When you ant a deposit to be kept safely. Lou mean hen money is not anted! but allo ed to lieK Precisely. That is to say! justice is useful hen money is uselessK That is the inference. =nd hen you ant to keep a pruningMhook safe! then justice is useful to the indi#idual and to the stateO but hen you ant to use it! then the art of the #ineMdresserK (learly. =nd hen you ant to keep a shield or a lyre! and not to use them! you ould say that justice is usefulO but hen you ant to use them! then the art of the soldier or of the musicianK (ertainly. =nd so of all the other thingsOMMjustice is useful hen they are useless! and useless hen they are usefulK That is the inference. Then justice is not good for much. &ut let us consider this further pointA -s not he ho can best strike a blo in a boxing match or in any kind of fighting best able to ard off a blo K (ertainly.

=nd he ho is most skilful in pre#enting or escaping from a disease is best able to create oneK True. =nd he is the best guard of a camp ho is best able to steal a march upon the enemyK (ertainly. Then he ho is a good keeper of anything is also a good thiefK That! - suppose! is to be inferred. Then if the just man is good at keeping money! he is good at stealing it. That is implied in the argument. Then after all the just man has turned out to be a thief. =nd this is a lesson hich - suspect you must ha#e learnt out of 'omerO for he! speaking of =utolycus! the maternal grandfather of 8dysseus! ho is a fa#ourite of his! affirms that 'e as excellent abo#e all men in theft and perjury. =nd so! you and 'omer and )imonides are agreed that justice is an art of theftO to be practised ho e#er Tfor the good of friends and for the harm of enemies!.MMthat as hat you ere sayingK 9o! certainly not that! though - do not no kno but - still stand by the latter ords. hat - did sayO

Well! there is another NuestionA &y friends and enemies do e mean those ho are so really! or only in seemingK )urely! he said! a man may be expected to lo#e those hom he thinks good! and to hate those hom he thinks e#il. Les! but do not persons often err about good and e#ilA

many ho are not good seem to be so! and con#erselyK That is true. Then to them the good ill be enemies and the e#il ill be their friendsK True. =nd in that case they ill be right in doing good to the e#il and e#il to the goodK (learly. &ut the good are just and ould not do an injusticeK True. Then according to your argument it is just to injure those ho do no rongK 9ay! )ocratesO the doctrine is immoral. Then - suppose that e ought to do good to the just and harm to the unjustK - like that better. &ut see the conseNuenceAMM;any a man ho is ignorant of human nature has friends ho are bad friends! and in that case he ought to do harm to themO and he has good enemies hom he ought to benefitO but! if so! e shall be saying the #ery opposite of that hich e affirmed to be the meaning of )imonides. %ery true! he saidA and - think that e had better correct an error into hich e seem to ha#e fallen in the use of the ords Tfriend. and Tenemy.. What as the error! PolemarchusK - asked. We assumed that he is a friend ho seems to be or ho is thought good.

=nd ho is the error to be correctedK We should rather say that he is a friend ho is! as ell as seems! goodO and that he ho seems only! and is not good! only seems to be and is not a friendO and of an enemy the same may be said. Lou ould argue that the good are our friends and the bad our enemiesK Les. =nd instead of saying simply as e did at first! that it is just to do good to our friends and harm to our enemies! e should further sayA -t is just to do good to our friends hen they are good and harm to our enemies hen they are e#ilK Les! that appears to me to be the truth. &ut ought the just to injure any one at allK :ndoubtedly he ought to injure those ho are both icked and his enemies. When horses are injured! are they impro#ed or deterioratedK The latter. "eteriorated! that is to say! in the good Nualities of horses! not of dogsK Les! of horses. =nd dogs are deteriorated in the good Nualities of dogs! and not of horsesK 8f course. =nd ill not men ho are injured be deteriorated in that hich is the proper #irtue of manK (ertainly.

=nd that human #irtue is justiceK To be sure. Then men ho are injured are of necessity made unjustK That is the result. &ut can the musician by his art make men unmusicalK (ertainly not. 8r the horseman by his art make them bad horsemenK -mpossible. =nd can the just by justice make men unjust! or speaking general can the good by #irtue make them badK =ssuredly not. =ny more than heat can produce coldK -t cannot. 8r drought moistureK (learly not. 9or can the good harm any oneK -mpossible. =nd the just is the goodK (ertainly. Then to injure a friend or any one else is not the act of a just man! but of the opposite! ho is the unjustK

- think that hat you say is Nuite true! )ocrates. Then if a man says that justice consists in the repayment of debts! and that good is the debt hich a man o es to his friends! and e#il the debt hich he o es to his enemies!MMto say this is not iseO for it is not true! if! as has been clearly sho n! the injuring of another can be in no case just. - agree ith you! said Polemarchus. Then you and - are prepared to take up arms against any one ho attributes such a saying to )imonides or &ias or Pittacus! or any other ise man or seerK - am Nuite ready to do battle at your side! he said. )hall - tell you hose - belie#e the saying to beK WhoseK - belie#e that Periander or Perdiccas or Jerxes or -smenias the Theban! or some other rich and mighty man! ho had a great opinion of his o n po er! as the first to say that justice is Tdoing good to your friends and harm to your enemies.. ;ost true! he said. Les! - saidO but if this definition of justice also breaks do n! hat other can be offeredK )e#eral times in the course of the discussion Thrasymachus had made an attempt to get the argument into his o n hands! and had been put do n by the rest of the company! ho anted to hear the end. &ut hen Polemarchus and - had done speaking and there as a pause! he could no longer hold his peaceO and! gathering himself up! he came at us like a ild beast! seeking to de#our us. We ere Nuite panicMstricken at the sight of him. )8(R=TE) M P8<E;=R(':) M T'R=)L;=(':)

'e roared out to the hole companyA What folly. )ocrates! has taken possession of you allK =nd hy! sillybillies! do you knock under to one anotherK - say that if you ant really to kno hat justice is! you should not only ask but ans er! and you should not seek honour to yourself from the refutation of an opponent! but ha#e your o n ans erO for there is many a one ho can ask and cannot ans er. =nd no ill not ha#e you say that justice is duty or ad#antage or profit or gain or interest! for this sort of nonsense ill not do for meO - must ha#e clearness and accuracy. - as panicMstricken at his ords! and could not look at him ithout trembling. -ndeed - belie#e that if - had not fixed my eye upon him! - should ha#e been struck dumbA but hen - sa his fury rising! - looked at him first! and as therefore able to reply to him. Thrasymachus! - said! ith a Nui#er! don.t be hard upon us. Polemarchus and - may ha#e been guilty of a little mistake in the argument! but - can assure you that the error as not intentional. -f e ere seeking for a piece of gold! you ould not imagine that e ere Tknocking under to one another!. and so losing our chance of finding it. =nd hy! hen e are seeking for justice! a thing more precious than many pieces of gold! do you say that e are eakly yielding to one another and not doing our utmost to get at the truthK 9ay! my good friend! e are most illing and anxious to do so! but the fact is that e cannot. =nd if so! you people ho kno all things should pity us and not be angry ith us. 'o characteristic of )ocratesD he replied! ith a bitter laughOMM that.s your ironical styleD "id - not foreseeMMha#e - not already told you! that hate#er he as asked he ould refuse to ans er! and try irony or any other shuffle! in order that he might a#oid ans eringK Lou are a philosopher! Thrasymachus! - replied! and ell kno that if you ask a person hat numbers make up t el#e! taking care to prohibit him hom you ask from ans ering t ice six! or three times four! or six times t o! or four times three! Tfor this sort of nonsense ill not do for me!.MMthen ob#iously! that is your ay of putting the Nuestion! no one can ans er you.

&ut suppose that he ere to retort! TThrasymachus! hat do you meanK -f one of these numbers hich you interdict be the true ans er to the Nuestion! am - falsely to say some other number hich is not the right oneKMMis that your meaningK. MM'o ould you ans er himK /ust as if the t o cases ere at all alikeD he said. Why should they not beK - repliedO and e#en if they are not! but only appear to be so to the person ho is asked! ought he not to say hat he thinks! hether you and - forbid him or notK - presume then that you are going to make one of the interdicted ans ersK - dare say that - may! not ithstanding the danger! if upon reflection - appro#e of any of them. &ut hat if - gi#e you an ans er about justice other and better! he said! than any of theseK What do you deser#e to ha#e done to youK "one to meDMMas becomes the ignorant! - must learn from the iseMM that is hat - deser#e to ha#e done to me. What! and no paymentD a pleasant notionD - ill pay hen - ha#e the money! - replied. )8(R=TE) M T'R=)L;=(':) M G<=:(89 &ut you ha#e! )ocrates! said GlauconA and you! Thrasymachus! need be under no anxiety about money! for e ill all make a contribution for )ocrates. Les! he replied! and then )ocrates ill do as he al ays doesMM refuse to ans er himself! but take and pull to pieces the ans er of some one else. Why! my good friend! - said! ho can any one ans er ho kno s! and says that he kno s! just nothingO and ho! e#en if he has some faint

notions of his o n! is told by a man of authority not to utter themK The natural thing is! that the speaker should be some one like yourself ho professes to kno and can tell hat he kno s. Will you then kindly ans er! for the edification of the company and of myself K Glaucon and the rest of the company joined in my reNuest and Thrasymachus! as any one might see! as in reality eager to speakO for he thought that he had an excellent ans er! and ould distinguish himself. &ut at first he to insist on my ans eringO at length he consented to begin. &ehold! he said! the isdom of )ocratesO he refuses to teach himself! and goes about learning of others! to hom he ne#er e#en says thank you. That - learn of others! - replied! is Nuite trueO but that - am ungrateful - holly deny. ;oney - ha#e none! and therefore - pay in praise! hich is all - ha#eA and ho ready - am to praise any one ho appears to me to speak ell you ill #ery soon find out hen you ans erO for - expect that you ill ans er ell. <isten! then! he saidO - proclaim that justice is nothing else than the interest of the stronger. =nd no hy do you not meK &ut of course you on.t. <et me first understand you! - replied. justice! as you say! is the interest of the stronger. What! Thrasymachus! is the meaning of thisK Lou cannot mean to say that because Polydamas! the pancratiast! is stronger than e are! and finds the eating of beef conduci#e to his bodily strength! that to eat beef is therefore eNually for our good ho are eaker than he is! and right and just for usK That.s abominable of you! )ocratesO you take the ords in the sense hich is most damaging to the argument. 9ot at all! my good sir! - saidO - am trying to understand themO and - ish that you ould be a little clearer. Well! he said! ha#e you ne#er heard that forms of go#ernment differO there are tyrannies! and there are democracies! and there

are aristocraciesK Les! - kno . =nd the go#ernment is the ruling po er in each stateK (ertainly. =nd the different forms of go#ernment make la s democratical! aristocratical! tyrannical! ith a #ie to their se#eral interestsO and these la s! hich are made by them for their o n interests! are the justice hich they deli#er to their subjects! and him ho transgresses them they punish as a breaker of the la ! and unjust. =nd that is hat - mean hen - say that in all states there is the same principle of justice! hich is the interest of the go#ernmentO and as the go#ernment must be supposed to ha#e po er! the only reasonable conclusion is! that e#ery here there is one principle of justice! hich is the interest of the stronger. 9o - understand you! - saidO and hether you are right or not ill try to disco#er. &ut let me remark! that in defining justice you ha#e yourself used the ord Tinterest. hich you forbade me to use. -t is true! ho e#er! that in your definition the ords Tof the stronger. are added. = small addition! you must allo ! he said. Great or small! ne#er mind about thatA e must first enNuire hether hat you are saying is the truth. 9o e are both agreed that justice is interest of some sort! but you go on to say Tof the stronger.O about this addition - am not so sure! and must therefore consider further. Proceed. - illO and first tell me! "o you admit that it is just or subjects to obey their rulersK - do. &ut are the rulers of states absolutely infallible! or are they

sometimes liable to errK To be sure! he replied! they are liable to err. Then in making their la s they may sometimes make them rightly! and sometimes notK True. When they make them rightly! they make them agreeably to their interestO hen they are mistaken! contrary to their interestO you admit thatK Les. =nd the la s hich they make must be obeyed by their subjects!MM and that is hat you call justiceK "oubtless. Then justice! according to your argument! is not only obedience to the interest of the stronger but the re#erseK What is that you are sayingK he asked. - am only repeating hat you are saying! - belie#e. &ut let us considerA 'a#e e not admitted that the rulers may be mistaken about their o n interest in hat they command! and also that to obey them is justiceK 'as not that been admittedK Les. Then you must also ha#e ackno ledged justice not to be for the interest of the stronger! hen the rulers unintentionally command things to be done hich are to their o n injury. $or if! as you say! justice is the obedience hich the subject renders to their commands! in that case! 8 isest of men! is there any escape from the conclusion that the eaker are commanded to do! not hat is for the interest! but hat is for the injury of the strongerK 9othing can be clearer! )ocrates! said Polemarchus.

)8(R=TE) M (<E-T8P'89 M P8<E;=R(':) M T'R=)L;=(':) Les! said (leitophon! interposing! if you are allo ed to be his itness. &ut there is no need of any itness! said Polemarchus! for Thrasymachus himself ackno ledges that rulers may sometimes command hat is not for their o n interest! and that for subjects to obey them is justice. Les! Polemarchus!MMThrasymachus said that for subjects to do hat as commanded by their rulers is just. Les! (leitophon! but he also said that justice is the interest of the stronger! and! hile admitting both these propositions! he further ackno ledged that the stronger may command the eaker ho are his subjects to do hat is not for his o n interestO hence follo s that justice is the injury Nuite as much as the interest of the stronger. &ut! said (leitophon! he meant by the interest of the stronger hat the stronger thought to be his interest!MMthis as hat the eaker had to doO and this as affirmed by him to be justice. Those ere not his ords! rejoined Polemarchus. )8(R=TE) M T'R=)L;=(':) 9e#er mind! - replied! if he no says that they are! let us accept his statement. Tell me! Thrasymachus! - said! did you mean by justice hat the stronger thought to be his interest! hether really so or notK (ertainly not! he said. "o you suppose that - call him ho is mistaken the stronger at the time hen he is mistakenK Les! - said! my impression as that you did so! hen you admitted that the ruler as not infallible but might be sometimes mistaken. Lou argue like an informer! )ocrates. "o you mean! for example! that he ho is mistaken about the sick is a physician in that he is

mistakenK or that he ho errs in arithmetic or grammar is an arithmetician or grammarian at the me hen he is making the mistake! in respect of the mistakeK True! e say that the physician or arithmetician or grammarian has made a mistake! but this is only a ay of speakingO for the fact is that neither the grammarian nor any other person of skill e#er makes a mistake in so far as he is hat his name impliesO they none of them err unless their skill fails them! and then they cease to be skilled artists. 9o artist or sage or ruler errs at the time hen he is hat his name impliesO though he is commonly said to err! and - adopted the common mode of speaking. &ut to be perfectly accurate! since you are such a lo#er of accuracy! e should say that the ruler! in so far as he is the ruler! is unerring! and! being unerring! al ays commands that hich is for his o n interestO and the subject is reNuired to execute his commandsO and therefore! as - said at first and no repeat! justice is the interest of the stronger. -ndeed! Thrasymachus! and do - really appear to you to argue like an informerK (ertainly! he replied. =nd you suppose that - ask these Nuestions ith any design of injuring you in the argumentK 9ay! he replied! Tsuppose. is not the ordMM- kno itO but you ill be found out! and by sheer force of argument you ill ne#er pre#ail. - shall not make the attempt! my dear manO but to a#oid any misunderstanding occurring bet een us in future! let me ask! in hat sense do you speak of a ruler or stronger hose interest! as you ere saying! he being the superior! it is just that the inferior should executeMM is he a ruler in the popular or in the strict sense of the termK -n the strictest of all senses! he said. =nd no cheat and play the informer if you canO - ask no Nuarter at your hands. &ut you ne#er ill be able! ne#er. =nd do you imagine! - said! that - am such a madman as to try

and cheat! ThrasymachusK - might as ell sha#e a lion. Why! he said! you made the attempt a minute ago! and you failed. Enough! - said! of these ci#ilities. -t ill be better that - should ask you a NuestionA -s the physician! taken in that strict sense of hich you are speaking! a healer of the sick or a maker of moneyK =nd remember that - am no speaking of the true physician. = healer of the sick! he replied. =nd the pilotMMthat is to say! the true pilotMMis he a captain of sailors or a mere sailorK = captain of sailors. The circumstance that he sails in the ship is not to be taken into accountO neither is he to be called a sailorO the name pilot by hich he is distinguished has nothing to do ith sailing! but is significant of his skill and of his authority o#er the sailors. %ery true! he said. 9o ! - said! e#ery art has an interestK (ertainly. $or hich the art has to consider and pro#ideK Les! that is the aim of art. =nd the interest of any art is the perfection of itMMthis and nothing elseK What do you meanK - mean hat - may illustrate negati#ely by the example of the body. )uppose you ere to ask me hether the body is selfMsufficing or has ants! - should replyA (ertainly the body has antsO for the body may be ill and reNuire to be cured! and has therefore

interests to hich the art of medicine ministersO and this is the origin and intention of medicine! as you ill ackno ledge. =m - not rightK Puite right! he replied. &ut is the art of medicine or any other art faulty or deficient in any Nuality in the same ay that the eye may be deficient in sight or the ear fail of hearing! and therefore reNuires another art to pro#ide for the interests of seeing and hearingMM has art in itself! - say! any similar liability to fault or defect! and does e#ery art reNuire another supplementary art to pro#ide for its interests! and that another and another ithout endK 8r ha#e the arts to look only after their o n interestsK 8r ha#e they no need either of themsel#es or of anotherKMMha#ing no faults or defects! they ha#e no need to correct them! either by the exercise of their o n art or of any otherO they ha#e only to consider the interest of their subjectMmatter. $or e#ery art remains pure and faultless hile remaining trueMMthat is to say! hile perfect and unimpaired. Take the ords in your precise sense! and tell me hether - am not right.E Les! clearly. Then medicine does not consider the interest of medicine! but the interest of the bodyK True! he said. 9or does the art of horsemanship consider the interests of the art of horsemanship! but the interests of the horseO neither do any other arts care for themsel#es! for they ha#e no needsO they care only for that hich is the subject of their artK True! he said. &ut surely! Thrasymachus! the arts are the superiors and rulers of their o n subjectsK To this he assented ith a good deal of reluctance.

Then! - said! no science or art considers or enjoins the interest of the stronger or superior! but only the interest of the subject and eakerK 'e made an attempt to contest this proposition also! but finally acNuiesced. Then! - continued! no physician! in so far as he is a physician! considers his o n good in hat he prescribes! but the good of his patientO for the true physician is also a ruler ha#ing the human body as a subject! and is not a mere moneyMmakerO that has been admittedK Les. =nd the pilot like ise! in the strict sense of the term! is a ruler of sailors and not a mere sailorK That has been admitted. =nd such a pilot and ruler ill pro#ide and prescribe for the interest of the sailor ho is under him! and not for his o n or the ruler.s interestK 'e ga#e a reluctant TLes.. Then! - said! Thrasymachus! there is no one in any rule ho! in so far as he is a ruler! considers or enjoins hat is for his o n interest! but al ays hat is for the interest of his subject or suitable to his artO to that he looks! and that alone he considers in e#erything hich he says and does. When e had got to this point in the argument! and e#ery one sa that the definition of justice had been completely upset! Thrasymachus! instead of replying to me! saidA Tell me! )ocrates! ha#e you got a nurseK Why do you ask such a Nuestion! - said! hen you ought rather to be ans eringK &ecause she lea#es you to sni#el! and ne#er ipes your noseA she has not e#en taught you to kno the shepherd from the sheep.

What makes you say thatK - replied. &ecause you fancy that the shepherd or neatherd fattens of tends the sheep or oxen ith a #ie to their o n good and not to the good of himself or his masterO and you further imagine that the rulers of states! if they are true rulers! ne#er think of their subjects as sheep! and that they are not studying their o n ad#antage day and night. 8h! noO and so entirely astray are you in your ideas about the just and unjust as not e#en to kno that justice and the just are in reality another.s goodO that is to say! the interest of the ruler and stronger! and the loss of the subject and ser#antO and injustice the oppositeO for the unjust is lord o#er the truly simple and justA he is the stronger! and his subjects do hat is for his interest! and minister to his happiness! hich is #ery far from being their o n. (onsider further! most foolish )ocrates! that the just is al ays a loser in comparison ith the unjust. $irst of all! in pri#ate contractsA here#er the unjust is the partner of the just you ill find that! hen the partnership is dissol#ed! the unjust man has al ays more and the just less. )econdly! in their dealings ith the )tateA hen there is an income tax! the just man ill pay more and the unjust less on the same amount of incomeO and hen there is anything to be recei#ed the one gains nothing and the other much. 8bser#e also hat happens hen they take an officeO there is the just man neglecting his affairs and perhaps suffering other losses! and getting nothing out of the public! because he is justO moreo#er he is hated by his friends and acNuaintance for refusing to ser#e them in unla ful ays. &ut all this is re#ersed in the case of the unjust man. - am speaking! as before! of injustice on a large scale in hich the ad#antage of the unjust is more apparentO and my meaning ill be most clearly seen if e turn to that highest form of injustice in hich the criminal is the happiest of men! and the sufferers or those ho refuse to do injustice are the most miserableMMthat is to say tyranny! hich by fraud and force takes a ay the property of others! not little by little but holesaleO comprehending in one! things sacred as ell as profane! pri#ate and publicO for hich acts of rong! if he ere detected perpetrating any one of them singly! he ould be punished and incur great disgraceMM they ho do such rong in particular cases are called robbers of temples! and manMstealers and burglars and s indlers and thie#es.

&ut hen a man besides taking a ay the money of the citi7ens has made sla#es of them! then! instead of these names of reproach! he is termed happy and blessed! not only by the citi7ens but by all ho hear of his ha#ing achie#ed the consummation of injustice. $or mankind censure injustice! fearing that they may be the #ictims of it and not because they shrink from committing it. =nd thus! as - ha#e sho n! )ocrates! injustice! hen on a sufficient scale! has more strength and freedom and mastery than justiceO and! as - said at first! justice is the interest of the stronger! hereas injustice is a man.s o n profit and interest. Thrasymachus! hen he had thus spoken! ha#ing! like a bathman! deluged our ears ith his ords! had a mind to go a ay. &ut the company ould not let himO they insisted that he should remain and defend his positionO and - myself added my o n humble reNuest that he ould not lea#e us. Thrasymachus! - said to him! excellent man! ho suggesti#e are your remarksD =nd are you going to run a ay before you ha#e fairly taught or learned hether they are true or notK -s the attempt to determine the ay of man.s life so small a matter in your eyesMMto determine ho life may be passed by each one of us to the greatest ad#antageK =nd do - differ from you! he said! as to the importance of the enNuiryK Lou appear rather! - replied! to ha#e no care or thought about us! ThrasymachusMM hether e li#e better or orse from not kno ing hat you say you kno ! is to you a matter of indifference. Prithee! friend! do not keep your kno ledge to yourselfO e are a large partyO and any benefit hich you confer upon us ill be amply re arded. $or my o n part - openly declare that - am not con#inced! and that do not belie#e injustice to be more gainful than justice! e#en if uncontrolled and allo ed to ha#e free play. $or! granting that there may be an unjust man ho is able to commit injustice either by fraud or force! still this does not con#ince me of the superior ad#antage of injustice! and there may be others ho are in the same predicament ith myself. Perhaps e may be rongO if so! you in your isdom should con#ince us that e are mistaken in preferring justice to injustice. =nd ho am - to con#ince you! he said! if you are not already con#inced by hat - ha#e just saidO hat more can - do for youK

Would you ha#e me put the proof bodily into your soulsK 'ea#en forbidD - saidO - ould only ask you to be consistentO or! if you change! change openly and let there be no deception. $or - must remark! Thrasymachus! if you ill recall hat as pre#iously said! that although you began by defining the true physician in an exact sense! you did not obser#e a like exactness hen speaking of the shepherdO you thought that the shepherd as a shepherd tends the sheep not ith a #ie to their o n good! but like a mere diner or banNueter ith a #ie to the pleasures of the tableO or! again! as a trader for sale in the market! and not as a shepherd. Let surely the art of the shepherd is concerned only ith the good of his subjectsO he has only to pro#ide the best for them! since the perfection of the art is already ensured hene#er all the reNuirements of it are satisfied. =nd that as hat - as saying just no about the ruler. - concei#ed that the art of the ruler! considered as ruler! hether in a state or in pri#ate life! could only regard the good of his flock or subjectsO hereas you seem to think that the rulers in states! that is to say! the true rulers! like being in authority. ThinkD 9ay! - am sure of it. Then hy in the case of lesser offices do men ne#er take them illingly ithout payment! unless under the idea that they go#ern for the ad#antage not of themsel#es but of othersK <et me ask you a NuestionA =re not the se#eral arts different! by reason of their each ha#ing a separate functionK =nd! my dear illustrious friend! do say hat you think! that e may make a little progress. Les! that is the difference! he replied. =nd each art gi#es us a particular good and not merely a general oneMM medicine! for example! gi#es us healthO na#igation! safety at sea! and so onK Les! he said. =nd the art of payment has the special function of gi#ing payA but e do not confuse this ith other arts! any more than

the art of the pilot is to be confused ith the art of medicine! because the health of the pilot may be impro#ed by a sea #oyage. Lou ould not be inclined to say! ould you! that na#igation is the art of medicine! at least if e are to adopt your exact use of languageK (ertainly not. 8r because a man is in good health hen he recei#es pay you ould not say that the art of payment is medicineK - should say not. 9or ould you say that medicine is the art of recei#ing pay because a man takes fees hen he is engaged in healingK (ertainly not. =nd e ha#e admitted! - said! that the good of each art is specially confined to the artK Les. Then! if there be any good hich all artists ha#e in common! that is to be attributed to something of hich they all ha#e the common useK True! he replied. =nd hen the artist is benefited by recei#ing pay the ad#antage is gained by an additional use of the art of pay! hich is not the art professed by himK 'e ga#e a reluctant assent to this. Then the pay is not deri#ed by the se#eral artists from their respecti#e arts. &ut the truth is! that hile the art of medicine gi#es health! and the art of the builder builds a house! another art attends them hich is the art of pay. The #arious arts may be doing their o n business and benefiting that o#er hich they preside!

but ould the artist recei#e any benefit from his art unless he ere paid as ellK - suppose not. &ut does he therefore confer no benefit hen he orks for nothingK (ertainly! he confers a benefit. Then no ! Thrasymachus! there is no longer any doubt that neither arts nor go#ernments pro#ide for their o n interestsO but! as e ere before saying! they rule and pro#ide for the interests of their subjects ho are the eaker and not the strongerMM to their good they attend and not to the good of the superior. =nd this is the reason! my dear Thrasymachus! hy! as - as just no saying! no one is illing to go#ernO because no one likes to take in hand the reformation of e#ils hich are not his concern ithout remuneration. $or! in the execution of his ork! and in gi#ing his orders to another! the true artist does not regard his o n interest! but al ays that of his subjectsO and therefore in order that rulers may be illing to rule! they must be paid in one of three modes of paymentA money! or honour! or a penalty for refusing. )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 What do you mean! )ocratesK said Glaucon. The first t o modes of payment are intelligible enough! but hat the penalty is do not understand! or ho a penalty can be a payment. Lou mean that you do not understand the nature of this payment hich to the best men is the great inducement to ruleK 8f course you kno that ambition and a#arice are held to be! as indeed they are! a disgraceK %ery true. =nd for this reason! - said! money and honour ha#e no attraction for themO good men do not ish to be openly demanding payment for go#erning

and so to get the name of hirelings! nor by secretly helping themsel#es out of the public re#enues to get the name of thie#es. =nd not being ambitious they do not care about honour. Wherefore necessity must be laid upon them! and they must be induced to ser#e from the fear of punishment. =nd this! as - imagine! is the reason hy the for ardness to take office! instead of aiting to be compelled! has been deemed dishonourable. 9o the orst part of the punishment is that he ho refuses to rule is liable to be ruled by one ho is orse than himself. =nd the fear of this! as - concei#e! induces the good to take office! not because they ould! but because they cannot helpMMnot under the idea that they are going to ha#e any benefit or enjoyment themsel#es! but as a necessity! and because they are not able to commit the task of ruling to any one ho is better than themsel#es! or indeed as good. $or there is reason to think that if a city ere composed entirely of good men! then to a#oid office ould be as much an object of contention as to obtain office is at presentO then e should ha#e plain proof that the true ruler is not meant by nature to regard his o n interest! but that of his subjectsO and e#ery one ho kne this ould choose rather to recei#e a benefit from another than to ha#e the trouble of conferring one. )o far am - from agreeing ith Thrasymachus that justice is the interest of the stronger. This latter Nuestion need not be further discussed at presentO but hen Thrasymachus says that the life of the unjust is more ad#antageous than that of the just! his ne statement appears to me to be of a far more serious character. Which of us has spoken trulyK =nd hich sort of life! Glaucon! do you preferK - for my part deem the life of the just to be the more ad#antageous! he ans ered. "id you hear all the ad#antages of the unjust hich Thrasymachus as rehearsingK Les! - heard him! he replied! but he has not con#inced me. Then shall e try to find some ay of con#incing him! if e can! that he is saying hat is not trueK

;ost certainly! he replied. -f! - said! he makes a set speech and e make another recounting all the ad#antages of being just! and he ans ers and e rejoin! there must be a numbering and measuring of the goods hich are claimed on either side! and in the end e shall ant judges to decideO but if e proceed in our enNuiry as e lately did! by making admissions to one another! e shall unite the offices of judge and ad#ocate in our o n persons. %ery good! he said. =nd hich method do - understand you to preferK - said. That hich you propose. Well! then! Thrasymachus! - said! suppose you begin at the beginning and ans er me. Lou say that perfect injustice is more gainful than perfect justiceK )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 M T'R=)L;=(':) Les! that is hat - say! and - ha#e gi#en you my reasons. =nd hat is your #ie about themK Would you call one of them #irtue and the other #iceK (ertainly. - suppose that you ould call justice #irtue and injustice #iceK What a charming notionD )o likely too! seeing that - affirm injustice to be profitable and justice not. What else then ould you sayK The opposite! he replied. =nd ould you call justice #iceK

9o! - ould rather say sublime simplicity. Then ould you call injustice malignityK 9oO - ould rather say discretion. =nd do the unjust appear to you to be ise and goodK Les! he saidO at any rate those of them ho are able to be perfectly unjust! and ho ha#e the po er of subduing states and nationsO but perhaps you imagine me to be talking of cutpurses. E#en this profession if undetected has ad#antages! though they are not to be compared ith those of hich - as just no speaking. - do not think that - misapprehend your meaning! Thrasymachus! - repliedO but still - cannot hear ithout ama7ement that you class injustice ith isdom and #irtue! and justice ith the opposite. (ertainly - do so class them. 9o ! - said! you are on more substantial and almost unans erable groundO for if the injustice hich you ere maintaining to be profitable had been admitted by you as by others to be #ice and deformity! an ans er might ha#e been gi#en to you on recei#ed principlesO but no - percei#e that you ill call injustice honourable and strong! and to the unjust you ill attribute all the Nualities hich ere attributed by us before to the just! seeing that you do not hesitate to rank injustice ith isdom and #irtue. Lou ha#e guessed most infallibly! he replied. Then - certainly ought not to shrink from going through ith the argument so long as - ha#e reason to think that you! Thrasymachus! are speaking your real mindO for - do belie#e that you are no in earnest and are not amusing yourself at our expense. - may be in earnest or not! but hat is that to youKMMto refute the argument is your business.

%ery true! - saidO that is hat - ha#e to doA &ut ill you be so good as ans er yet one more NuestionK "oes the just man try to gain any ad#antage o#er the justK $ar other iseO if he did ould not be the simple! amusing creature hich he is. =nd ould he try to go beyond just actionK 'e ould not. =nd ho ould he regard the attempt to gain an ad#antage o#er the unjustO ould that be considered by him as just or unjustK 'e ould think it just! and ould try to gain the ad#antageO but he ould not be able. Whether he ould or ould not be able! - said! is not to the point. ;y Nuestion is only hether the just man! hile refusing to ha#e more than another just man! ould ish and claim to ha#e more than the unjustK Les! he ould. =nd hat of the unjustMMdoes he claim to ha#e more than the just man and to do more than is just 8f course! he said! for he claims to ha#e more than all men. =nd the unjust man ill stri#e and struggle to obtain more than the unjust man or action! in order that he may ha#e more than allK True. We may put the matter thus! - saidMMthe just does not desire more than his like but more than his unlike! hereas the unjust desires more than both his like and his unlikeK 9othing! he said! can be better than that statement.

=nd the unjust is good and ise! and the just is neitherK Good again! he said. =nd is not the unjust like the ise and good and the just unlike themK 8f course! he said! he ho is of a certain nature! is like those ho are of a certain natureO he ho is not! not. Each of them! - said! is such as his like isK (ertainly! he replied. %ery good! Thrasymachus! - saidO and no to take the case of the artsA you ould admit that one man is a musician and another not a musicianK Les. =nd hich is ise and hich is foolishK (learly the musician is ise! and he ho is not a musician is foolish. =nd he is good in as far as he is ise! and bad in as far as he is foolishK Les. =nd you ould say the same sort of thing of the physicianK Les. =nd do you think! my excellent friend! that a musician hen he adjusts the lyre ould desire or claim to exceed or go beyond a musician in the tightening and loosening the stringsK - do not think that he ould. &ut he ould claim to exceed the nonMmusicianK 8f course.

=nd hat ould you say of the physicianK -n prescribing meats and drinks ould he ish to go beyond another physician or beyond the practice of medicineK 'e ould not. &ut he ould ish to go beyond the nonMphysicianK Les. =nd about kno ledge and ignorance in generalO see hether you think that any man ho has kno ledge e#er ould ish to ha#e the choice of saying or doing more than another man ho has kno ledge. Would he not rather say or do the same as his like in the same caseK That! - suppose! can hardly be denied. =nd hat of the ignorantK ould he not desire to ha#e more than either the kno ing or the ignorantK - dare say. =nd the kno ing is iseK Les. =nd the ise is goodK True. Then the ise and good ill not desire to gain more than his like! but more than his unlike and oppositeK - suppose so. Whereas the bad and ignorant ill desire to gain more than bothK Les.

&ut did e not say! Thrasymachus! that the unjust goes beyond both his like and unlikeK Were not these your ordsK They ere. They ere. =nd you also said that the lust ill not go beyond his like but his unlikeK Les. Then the just is like the ise and good! and the unjust like the e#il and ignorantK That is the inference. =nd each of them is such as his like isK That as admitted. Then the just has turned out to be ise and good and the unjust e#il and ignorant. Thrasymachus made all these admissions! not fluently! as - repeat them! but ith extreme reluctanceO it as a hot summer.s day! and the perspiration poured from him in torrentsO and then - sa hat - had ne#er seen before! Thrasymachus blushing. =s e ere no agreed that justice as #irtue and isdom! and injustice #ice and ignorance! - proceeded to another pointA Well! - said! Thrasymachus! that matter is no settledO but ere e not also saying that injustice had strengthO do you rememberK Les! - remember! he said! but do not suppose that - appro#e of hat you are saying or ha#e no ans erO if ho e#er - ere to ans er! you ould be Nuite certain to accuse me of haranguingO therefore either permit me to ha#e my say out! or if you ould rather ask! do so! and - ill ans er T%ery good!. as they say to storyMtelling old omen! and ill nod TLes. and T9o.. (ertainly not! - said! if contrary to your real opinion.

Les! he said! - ill! to please you! since you ill not let me speak. What else ould you ha#eK 9othing in the orld! - saidO and if you are so disposed - ill ask and you shall ans er. Proceed. Then - ill repeat the Nuestion hich - asked before! in order that our examination of the relati#e nature of justice and injustice may be carried on regularly. = statement as made that injustice is stronger and more po erful than justice! but no justice! ha#ing been identified ith isdom and #irtue! is easily sho n to be stronger than injustice! if injustice is ignoranceO this can no longer be Nuestioned by any one. &ut - ant to #ie the matter! Thrasymachus! in a different ayA Lou ould not deny that a state may be unjust and may be unjustly attempting to ensla#e other states! or may ha#e already ensla#ed them! and may be holding many of them in subjectionK True! he repliedO and - ill add the best and perfectly unjust state ill be most likely to do so. - kno ! - said! that such as your positionO but hat - ould further consider is! hether this po er hich is possessed by the superior state can exist or be exercised ithout justice. -f you are right in you #ie ! and justice is isdom! then only ith justiceO but if - am right! then ithout justice. - am delighted! Thrasymachus! to see you not only nodding assent and dissent! but making ans ers hich are Nuite excellent. That is out of ci#ility to you! he replied. Lou are #ery kind! - saidO and ould you ha#e the goodness also to inform me! hether you think that a state! or an army! or a band of robbers and thie#es! or any other gang of e#ilMdoers could act at all if they injured one anotherK

9o indeed! he said! they could not. &ut if they abstained from injuring one another! then they might act together betterK Les. =nd this is because injustice creates di#isions and hatreds and fighting! and justice imparts harmony and friendshipO is not that true! ThrasymachusK - agree! he said! because - do not ish to Nuarrel ith you. 'o good of you! - saidO but - should like to kno also hether injustice! ha#ing this tendency to arouse hatred! here#er existing! among sla#es or among freemen! ill not make them hate one another and set them at #ariance and render them incapable of common actionK (ertainly. =nd e#en if injustice be found in t o only! ill they not Nuarrel and fight! and become enemies to one another and to the just They ill. =nd suppose injustice abiding in a single person! ould your isdom say that she loses or that she retains her natural po erK <et us assume that she retains her po er. Let is not the po er hich injustice exercises of such a nature that here#er she takes up her abode! hether in a city! in an army! in a family! or in any other body! that body is! to begin ith! rendered incapable of united action by reason of sedition and distractionO and does it not become its o n enemy and at #ariance ith all that opposes it! and ith the justK -s not this the caseK Les! certainly.

=nd is not injustice eNually fatal hen existing in a single personO in the first place rendering him incapable of action because he is not at unity ith himself! and in the second place making him an enemy to himself and the justK -s not that true! ThrasymachusK Les. =nd 8 my friend! - said! surely the gods are justK Granted that they are. &ut if so! the unjust ill be the enemy of the gods! and the just ill be their friendK $east a ay in triumph! and take your fill of the argumentO - ill not oppose you! lest - should displease the company. Well then! proceed ith your ans ers! and let me ha#e the remainder of my repast. $or e ha#e already sho n that the just are clearly iser and better and abler than the unjust! and that the unjust are incapable of common actionO nay ing at more! that to speak as e did of men ho are e#il acting at any time #igorously together! is not strictly true! for if they had been perfectly e#il! they ould ha#e laid hands upon one anotherO but it is e#ident that there must ha#e been some remnant of justice in them! hich enabled them to combineO if there had not been they ould ha#e injured one another as ell as their #ictimsO they ere but halfMM#illains in their enterprisesO for had they been hole #illains! and utterly unjust! they ould ha#e been utterly incapable of action. That! as - belie#e! is the truth of the matter! and not hat you said at first. &ut hether the just ha#e a better and happier life than the unjust is a further Nuestion hich e also proposed to consider. - think that they ha#e! and for the reasons hich to ha#e gi#enO but still - should like to examine further! for no light matter is at stake! nothing less than the rule of human life. Proceed. - ill proceed by asking a NuestionA Would you not say that a horse has some endK

- should. =nd the end or use of a horse or of anything ould be that hich could not be accomplished! or not so ell accomplished! by any other thingK - do not understand! he said. <et me explainA (an you see! except ith the eyeK (ertainly not. 8r hear! except ith the earK 9o. These then may be truly said to be the ends of these organsK They may. &ut you can cut off a #ineMbranch ith a dagger or ith a chisel! and in many other aysK 8f course. =nd yet not so ell as ith a pruningMhook made for the purposeK True. ;ay e not say that this is the end of a pruningMhookK We may. Then no - think you ill ha#e no difficulty in understanding my meaning hen - asked the Nuestion hether the end of anything ould be that hich could not be accomplished! or not so ell accomplished! by any other thingK - understand your meaning! he said! and assent.

=nd that to hich an end is appointed has also an excellenceK 9eed - ask again hether the eye has an endK -t has. =nd has not the eye an excellenceK Les. =nd the ear has an end and an excellence alsoK True. =nd the same is true of all other thingsO they ha#e each of them an end and a special excellenceK That is so. Well! and can the eyes fulfil their end if they are anting in their o n proper excellence and ha#e a defect insteadK 'o can they! he said! if they are blind and cannot seeK Lou mean to say! if they ha#e lost their proper excellence! hich is sightO but - ha#e not arri#ed at that point yet. - ould rather ask the Nuestion more generally! and only enNuire hether the things hich fulfil their ends fulfil them by their o n proper excellence! and fall of fulfilling them by their o n defectK (ertainly! he replied. - might say the same of the earsO hen depri#ed of their o n proper excellence they cannot fulfil their endK True. =nd the same obser#ation ill apply to all other thingsK - agree.

WellO and has not the soul an end hich nothing else can fulfilK for example! to superintend and command and deliberate and the like. =re not these functions proper to the soul! and can they rightly be assigned to any otherK To no other. =nd is not life to be reckoned among the ends of the soulK =ssuredly! he said. =nd has not the soul an excellence alsoK Les. =nd can she or can she not fulfil her o n ends hen depri#ed of that excellenceK )he cannot. Then an e#il soul must necessarily be an e#il ruler and superintendent! and the good soul a good rulerK Les! necessarily. =nd e ha#e admitted that justice is the excellence of the soul! and injustice the defect of the soulK That has been admitted. Then the just soul and the just man ill li#e ell! and the unjust man ill li#e illK That is hat your argument pro#es. =nd he ho li#es ell is blessed and happy! and he ho li#es ill the re#erse of happyK (ertainly.

Then the just is happy! and the unjust miserableK )o be it. &ut happiness and not misery is profitable. 8f course. Then! my blessed Thrasymachus! injustice can ne#er be more profitable than justice. <et this! )ocrates! he said! be your entertainment at the &endidea. $or hich - am indebted to you! - said! no that you ha#e gro n gentle to ards me and ha#e left off scolding. 9e#ertheless! - ha#e not been ell entertainedO but that as my o n fault and not yours. =s an epicure snatches a taste of e#ery dish hich is successi#ely brought to table! he not ha#ing allo ed himself time to enjoy the one before! so ha#e - gone from one subject to another ithout ha#ing disco#ered hat - sought at first! the nature of justice. - left that enNuiry and turned a ay to consider hether justice is #irtue and isdom or e#il and follyO and hen there arose a further Nuestion about the comparati#e ad#antages of justice and injustice! - could not refrain from passing on to that. =nd the result of the hole discussion has been that - kno nothing at all. $or - kno not hat justice is! and therefore - am not likely to kno hether it is or is not a #irtue! nor can - say hether the just man is happy or unhappy.

&88Q -)8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 W-T' these ords - as thinking that - had made an end of the discussionO but the end! in truth! pro#ed to be only a beginning. $or Glaucon! ho is al ays the most pugnacious of men! as dissatisfied

at Thrasymachus. retirementO he anted to ha#e the battle out. )o he said to meA )ocrates! do you ish really to persuade us! or only to seem to ha#e persuaded us! that to be just is al ays better than to be unjustK - should ish really to persuade you! - replied! if - could. Then you certainly ha#e not succeeded. <et me ask you no AMM'o ould you arrange goodsMMare there not some hich e elcome for their o n sakes! and independently of their conseNuences! as! for example! harmless pleasures and enjoyments! hich delight us at the time! although nothing follo s from themK - agree in thinking that there is such a class! - replied. -s there not also a second class of goods! such as kno ledge! sight! health! hich are desirable not only in themsel#es! but also for their resultsK (ertainly! - said. =nd ould you not recogni7e a third class! such as gymnastic! and the care of the sick! and the physician.s artO also the #arious ays of moneyMmakingMMthese do us good but e regard them as disagreeableO and no one ould choose them for their o n sakes! but only for the sake of some re ard or result hich flo s from themK There is! - said! this third class also. &ut hy do you askK &ecause - ant to kno in hich of the three classes you ould place justiceK -n the highest class! - replied!MMamong those goods hich he ho ould be happy desires both for their o n sake and for the sake of their results. Then the many are of another mindO they think that justice is to be reckoned in the troublesome class! among goods hich are to be pursued for the sake of re ards and of reputation! but in themsel#es are disagreeable and rather to be a#oided.

- kno ! - said! that this is their manner of thinking! and that this as the thesis hich Thrasymachus as maintaining just no ! hen he censured justice and praised injustice. &ut - am too stupid to be con#inced by him. - ish! he said! that you ould hear me as ell as him! and then - shall see hether you and - agree. $or Thrasymachus seems to me! like a snake! to ha#e been charmed by your #oice sooner than he ought to ha#e beenO but to my mind the nature of justice and injustice ha#e not yet been made clear. )etting aside their re ards and results! - ant to kno hat they are in themsel#es! and ho they in ardly ork in the soul. -f you! please! then! - ill re#i#e the argument of Thrasymachus. =nd first - ill speak of the nature and origin of justice according to the common #ie of them. )econdly! - ill sho that all men ho practise justice do so against their ill! of necessity! but not as a good. =nd thirdly! - ill argue that there is reason in this #ie ! for the life of the unjust is after all better far than the life of the justMMif hat they say is true! )ocrates! since - myself am not of their opinion. &ut still - ackno ledge that - am perplexed hen - hear the #oices of Thrasymachus and myriads of others dinning in my earsO and! on the other hand! - ha#e ne#er yet heard the superiority of justice to injustice maintained by any one in a satisfactory ay. - ant to hear justice praised in respect of itselfO then - shall be satisfied! and you are the person from hom - think that - am most likely to hear thisO and therefore - ill praise the unjust life to the utmost of my po er! and my manner of speaking ill indicate the manner in hich desire to hear you too praising justice and censuring injustice. Will you say hether you appro#e of my proposalK -ndeed - doO nor can - imagine any theme about hich a man of sense ould oftener ish to con#erse. - am delighted! he replied! to hear you say so! and shall begin by speaking! as - proposed! of the nature and origin of justice. G<=:(89 They say that to do injustice is! by nature! goodO to suffer

injustice! e#ilO but that the e#il is greater than the good. =nd so hen men ha#e both done and suffered injustice and ha#e had experience of both! not being able to a#oid the one and obtain the other! they think that they had better agree among themsel#es to ha#e neitherO hence there arise la s and mutual co#enantsO and that hich is ordained by la is termed by them la ful and just. This they affirm to be the origin and nature of justiceOMMit is a mean or compromise! bet een the best of all! hich is to do injustice and not be punished! and the orst of all! hich is to suffer injustice ithout the po er of retaliationO and justice! being at a middle point bet een the t o! is tolerated not as a good! but as the lesser e#il! and honoured by reason of the inability of men to do injustice. $or no man ho is orthy to be called a man ould e#er submit to such an agreement if he ere able to resistO he ould be mad if he did. )uch is the recei#ed account! )ocrates! of the nature and origin of justice. 9o that those ho practise justice do so in#oluntarily and because they ha#e not the po er to be unjust ill best appear if e imagine something of this kindA ha#ing gi#en both to the just and the unjust po er to do hat they ill! let us atch and see hither desire ill lead themO then e shall disco#er in the #ery act the just and unjust man to be proceeding along the same road! follo ing their interest! hich all natures deem to be their good! and are only di#erted into the path of justice by the force of la . The liberty hich e are supposing may be most completely gi#en to them in the form of such a po er as is said to ha#e been possessed by Gyges the ancestor of (roesus the <ydian. =ccording to the tradition! Gyges as a shepherd in the ser#ice of the king of <ydiaO there as a great storm! and an earthNuake made an opening in the earth at the place here he as feeding his flock. =ma7ed at the sight! he descended into the opening! here! among other mar#els! he beheld a hollo bra7en horse! ha#ing doors! at hich he stooping and looking in sa a dead body of stature! as appeared to him! more than human! and ha#ing nothing on but a gold ringO this he took from the finger of the dead and reascended. 9o the shepherds met together! according to custom! that they might send their monthly report about the flocks to the kingO into their assembly he came ha#ing the ring on his finger! and as he as sitting among them he chanced to turn the collet of the ring inside

his hand! hen instantly he became in#isible to the rest of the company and they began to speak of him as if he ere no longer present. 'e as astonished at this! and again touching the ring he turned the collet out ards and reappearedO he made se#eral trials of the ring! and al ays ith the same resultM hen he turned the collet in ards he became in#isible! hen out ards he reappeared. Whereupon he contri#ed to be chosen one of the messengers ho ere sent to the courtO here as soon as he arri#ed he seduced the Nueen! and ith her help conspired against the king and sle him! and took the kingdom. )uppose no that there ere t o such magic rings! and the just put on one of them and the unjust the otherO!no man can be imagined to be of such an iron nature that he ould stand fast in justice. 9o man ould keep his hands off hat as not his o n hen he could safely take hat he liked out of the market! or go into houses and lie ith any one at his pleasure! or kill or release from prison hom he ould! and in all respects be like a God among men. Then the actions of the just ould be as the actions of the unjustO they ould both come at last to the same point. =nd this e may truly affirm to be a great proof that a man is just! not illingly or because he thinks that justice is any good to him indi#idually! but of necessity! for here#er any one thinks that he can safely be unjust! there he is unjust. $or all men belie#e in their hearts that injustice is far more profitable to the indi#idual than justice! and he ho argues as - ha#e been supposing! ill say that they are right. -f you could imagine any one obtaining this po er of becoming in#isible! and ne#er doing any rong or touching hat as another.s! he ould be thought by the lookersMon to be a most retched idiot! although they ould praise him to one another.s faces! and keep up appearances ith one another from a fear that they too might suffer injustice. Enough of this. 9o ! if e are to form a real judgment of the life of the just and unjust! e must isolate themO there is no other ayO and ho is the isolation to be effectedK - ans erA <et the unjust man be entirely unjust! and the just man entirely justO nothing is to be taken a ay from either of them! and both are to be perfectly furnished for the ork of their respecti#e li#es. $irst! let the unjust be like other distinguished masters of craftO like the skilful pilot or physician! ho kno s intuiti#ely his o n po ers and keeps ithin their limits! and ho! if he fails at any point! is able to reco#er himself.

)o let the unjust make his unjust attempts in the right ay! and lie hidden if he means to be great in his injustice >he ho is found out is nobody?A for the highest reach of injustice isA to be deemed just hen you are not. Therefore - say that in the perfectly unjust man e must assume the most perfect injusticeO there is to be no deduction! but e must allo him! hile doing the most unjust acts! to ha#e acNuired the greatest reputation for justice. -f he ha#e taken a false step he must be able to reco#er himselfO he must be one ho can speak ith effect! if any of his deeds come to light! and ho can force his ay here force is reNuired his courage and strength! and command of money and friends. =nd at his side let us place the just man in his nobleness and simplicity! ishing! as =eschylus says! to be and not to seem good. There must be no seeming! for if he seem to be just he ill be honoured and re arded! and then e shall not kno hether he is just for the sake of justice or for the sake of honours and re ardsO therefore! let him be clothed in justice only! and ha#e no other co#eringO and he must be imagined in a state of life the opposite of the former. <et him be the best of men! and let him be thought the orstO then he ill ha#e been put to the proofO and e shall see hether he ill be affected by the fear of infamy and its conseNuences. =nd let him continue thus to the hour of deathO being just and seeming to be unjust. When both ha#e reached the uttermost extreme! the one of justice and the other of injustice! let judgment be gi#en hich of them is the happier of the t o. )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 'ea#ensD my dear Glaucon! - said! ho energetically you polish them up for the decision! first one and then the other! as if they ere t o statues. - do my best! he said. =nd no that e kno hat they are like there is no difficulty in tracing out the sort of life hich a aits either of them. This - ill proceed to describeO but as you may think the description a little too coarse! - ask you to suppose! )ocrates! that the ords hich follo are not mine.MM <et me put them into the mouths of the eulogists of injusticeA They ill tell you that the just man ho is thought unjust ill be scourged! racked! boundMM ill ha#e his eyes burnt outO and! at last!

after suffering e#ery kind of e#il! he ill be impaledA Then he ill understand that he ought to seem only! and not to be! justO the ords of =eschylus may be more truly spoken of the unjust than of the just. $or the unjust is pursuing a realityO he does not li#e ith a #ie to appearancesMMhe ants to be really unjust and not to seem onlyAMM 'is mind has a soil deep and fertile! 8ut of hich spring his prudent counsels. -n the first place! he is thought just! and therefore bears rule in the cityO he can marry hom he ill! and gi#e in marriage to hom he illO also he can trade and deal here he likes! and al ays to his o n ad#antage! because he has no misgi#ings about injustice and at e#ery contest! hether in public or pri#ate! he gets the better of his antagonists! and gains at their expense! and is rich! and out of his gains he can benefit his friends! and harm his enemiesO moreo#er! he can offer sacrifices! and dedicate gifts to the gods abundantly and magnificently! and can honour the gods or any man hom he ants to honour in a far better style than the just! and therefore he is likely to be dearer than they are to the gods. =nd thus! )ocrates! gods and men are said to unite in making the life of the unjust better than the life of the just. ="E-;=9T:) M)8(R=TE) - as going to say something in ans er to Glaucon! hen =deimantus! his brother! interposedA )ocrates! he said! you do not suppose that there is nothing more to be urgedK Why! hat else is thereK - ans ered. The strongest point of all has not been e#en mentioned! he replied. Well! then! according to the pro#erb! T<et brother help brother.MM if he fails in any part do you assist himO although - must confess that Glaucon has already said Nuite enough to lay me in the dust! and take from me the po er of helping justice. ="E-;=9T:)

9onsense! he replied. &ut let me add something moreA There is another side to Glaucon.s argument about the praise and censure of justice and injustice! hich is eNually reNuired in order to bring out hat - belie#e to be his meaning. Parents and tutors are al ays telling their sons and their ards that they are to be justO but hyK not for the sake of justice! but for the sake of character and reputationO in the hope of obtaining for him ho is reputed just some of those offices! marriages! and the like hich Glaucon has enumerated among the ad#antages accruing to the unjust from the reputation of justice. ;ore! ho e#er! is made of appearances by this class of persons than by the othersO for they thro in the good opinion of the gods! and ill tell you of a sho er of benefits hich the hea#ens! as they say! rain upon the piousO and this accords ith the testimony of the noble 'esiod and 'omer! the first of hom says! that the gods make the oaks of the justMM To hear acorns at their summit! and bees - the middleO =nd the sheep the bo ed do n bo ed the ith the their fleeces. and many other blessings of a like kind are pro#ided for them. =nd 'omer has a #ery similar strainO for he speaks of one hose fame isMM =s the fame of some blameless king ho! like a god! ;aintains justice to hom the black earth brings forth Wheat and barley! hose trees are bo ed ith fruit! =nd his sheep ne#er fail to bear! and the sea gi#es him fish. )till grander are the gifts of hea#en hich ;usaeus and his son #ouchsafe to the justO they take them do n into the orld belo ! here they ha#e the saints lying on couches at a feast! e#erlastingly drunk! cro ned ith garlandsO their idea seems to be that an immortality of drunkenness is the highest meed of #irtue. )ome extend their re ards yet furtherO the posterity! as they say! of the faithful and just shall sur#i#e to the third and fourth generation. This is the style in hich they praise justice. &ut about the icked there is another strainO they bury them in a slough in 'ades! and make them carry ater in a sie#eO also hile they are yet li#ing they bring them to infamy! and inflict upon them the punishments hich Glaucon

described as the portion of the just ho are reputed to be unjustO nothing else does their in#ention supply. )uch is their manner of praising the one and censuring the other. 8nce more! )ocrates! - ill ask you to consider another ay of speaking about justice and injustice! hich is not confined to the poets! but is found in prose riters. The uni#ersal #oice of mankind is al ays declaring that justice and #irtue are honourable! but grie#ous and toilsomeO and that the pleasures of #ice and injustice are easy of attainment! and are only censured by la and opinion. They say also that honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonestyO and they are Nuite ready to call icked men happy! and to honour them both in public and pri#ate hen they are rich or in any other ay influential! hile they despise and o#erlook those ho may be eak and poor! e#en though ackno ledging them to be better than the others. &ut most extraordinary of all is their mode of speaking about #irtue and the godsA they say that the gods apportion calamity and misery to many good men! and good and happiness to the icked. =nd mendicant prophets go to rich men.s doors and persuade them that they ha#e a po er committed to them by the gods of making an atonement for a man.s o n or his ancestor.s sins by sacrifices or charms! ith rejoicings and feastsO and they promise to harm an enemy! hether just or unjust! at a small costO ith magic arts and incantations binding hea#en! as they say! to execute their ill. =nd the poets are the authorities to hom they appeal! no smoothing the path of #ice ith the ords of 'esiodOMM %ice may be had in abundance ithout troubleO the ay is smooth and her d ellingMplace is near. &ut before #irtue the gods ha#e set toil! and a tedious and uphill roadA then citing 'omer as a itness that the gods may be influenced by menO for he also saysA The gods! too! may he turned from their purposeO and men pray to them and a#ert their rath by sacrifices and soothing entreaties! and by libations and the odour of fat! hen they ha#e sinned and transgressed.

=nd they produce a host of books ritten by ;usaeus and 8rpheus! ho ere children of the ;oon and the ;usesMMthat is hat they sayMM according to hich they perform their ritual! and persuade not only indi#iduals! but hole cities! that expiations and atonements for sin may be made by sacrifices and amusements hich fill a #acant hour! and are eNually at the ser#ice of the li#ing and the deadO the latter sort they call mysteries! and they redeem us from the pains of hell! but if e neglect them no one kno s hat a aits us. 'e proceededA =nd no hen the young hear all this said about #irtue and #ice! and the ay in hich gods and men regard them! ho are their minds likely to be affected! my dear )ocrates!MM those of them! - mean! ho are Nuick itted! and! like bees on the ing! light on e#ery flo er! and from all that they hear are prone to dra conclusions as to hat manner of persons they should be and in hat ay they should alk if they ould make the best of lifeK Probably the youth ill say to himself in the ords of PindarMM (an - by justice or by crooked ays of deceit ascend a loftier to er hich may he a fortress to me all my daysK $or hat men say is that! if - am really just and am not also thought just profit there is none! but the pain and loss on the other hand are unmistakable. &ut if! though unjust! - acNuire the reputation of justice! a hea#enly life is promised to me. )ince then! as philosophers pro#e! appearance tyranni7es o#er truth and is lord of happiness! to appearance - must de#ote myself. - ill describe around me a picture and shado of #irtue to be the #estibule and exterior of my houseO behind - ill trail the subtle and crafty fox! as =rchilochus! greatest of sages! recommends. &ut - hear some one exclaiming that the concealment of ickedness is often difficultO to hich - ans er! 9othing great is easy. 9e#ertheless! the argument indicates this! if e ould be happy! to be the path along hich e should proceed. With a #ie to concealment e ill establish secret brotherhoods and political clubs. =nd there are professors of rhetoric ho teach the art of persuading courts and assembliesO and so! partly by persuasion and partly by force! - shall make unla ful gains and not be punished. )till - hear a #oice saying that the gods cannot be decei#ed! neither can they be compelled. &ut hat if there are no godsK or! suppose them to ha#e no care

of human thingsMM hy in either case should e mind about concealmentK =nd e#en if there are gods! and they do care about us! yet e kno of them only from tradition and the genealogies of the poetsO and these are the #ery persons ho say that they may be influenced and turned by Tsacrifices and soothing entreaties and by offerings.. <et us be consistent then! and belie#e both or neither. -f the poets speak truly! hy then e had better be unjust! and offer of the fruits of injusticeO for if e are just! although e may escape the #engeance of hea#en! e shall lose the gains of injusticeO but! if e are unjust! e shall keep the gains! and by our sinning and praying! and praying and sinning! the gods ill be propitiated! and e shall not be punished. T&ut there is a orld belo in hich either e or our posterity ill suffer for our unjust deeds.. Les! my friend! ill be the reflection! but there are mysteries and atoning deities! and these ha#e great po er. That is hat mighty cities declareO and the children of the gods! ho ere their poets and prophets! bear a like testimony. 8n hat principle! then! shall e any longer choose justice rather than the orst injusticeK hen! if e only unite the latter ith a deceitful regard to appearances! e shall fare to our mind both ith gods and men! in life and after death! as the most numerous and the highest authorities tell us. Qno ing all this! )ocrates! ho can a man ho has any superiority of mind or person or rank or ealth! be illing to honour justiceO or indeed to refrain from laughing hen he hears justice praisedK =nd e#en if there should be some one ho is able to dispro#e the truth of my ords! and ho is satisfied that justice is best! still he is not angry ith the unjust! but is #ery ready to forgi#e them! because he also kno s that men are not just of their o n free illO unless! perad#enture! there be some one hom the di#inity ithin him may ha#e inspired ith a hatred of injustice! or ho has attained kno ledge of the truthMMbut no other man. 'e only blames injustice ho! o ing to co ardice or age or some eakness! has not the po er of being unjust. =nd this is pro#ed by the fact that hen he obtains the po er! he immediately becomes unjust as far as he can be. The cause of all this! )ocrates! as indicated by us at the beginning

of the argument! hen my brother and - told you ho astonished e ere to find that of all the professing panegyrists of justiceMM beginning ith the ancient heroes of hom any memorial has been preser#ed to us! and ending ith the men of our o n timeMM no one has e#er blamed injustice or praised justice except ith a #ie to the glories! honours! and benefits hich flo from them. 9o one has e#er adeNuately described either in #erse or prose the true essential nature of either of them abiding in the soul! and in#isible to any human or di#ine eyeO or sho n that of all the things of a man.s soul hich he has ithin him! justice is the greatest good! and injustice the greatest e#il. 'ad this been the uni#ersal strain! had you sought to persuade us of this from our youth up ards! e should not ha#e been on the atch to keep one another from doing rong! but e#ery one ould ha#e been his o n atchman! because afraid! if he did rong! of harbouring in himself the greatest of e#ils. - dare say that Thrasymachus and others ould seriously hold the language hich - ha#e been merely repeating! and ords e#en stronger than these about justice and injustice! grossly! as - concei#e! per#erting their true nature. &ut - speak in this #ehement manner! as - must frankly confess to you! because - ant to hear from you the opposite sideO and - ould ask you to sho not only the superiority hich justice has o#er injustice! but hat effect they ha#e on the possessor of them hich makes the one to be a good and the other an e#il to him. =nd please! as Glaucon reNuested of you! to exclude reputationsO for unless you take a ay from each of them his true reputation and add on the false! e shall say that you do not praise justice! but the appearance of itO e shall think that you are only exhorting us to keep injustice dark! and that you really agree ith Thrasymachus in thinking that justice is another.s good and the interest of the stronger! and that injustice is a man.s o n profit and interest! though injurious to the eaker. 9o as you ha#e admitted that justice is one of that highest class of goods hich are desired indeed for their results! but in a far greater degree for their o n sakesMMlike sight or hearing or kno ledge or health! or any other real and natural and not merely con#entional goodMM - ould ask you in your praise of justice to regard one point onlyA - mean the essential good and e#il hich justice and injustice ork in the possessors of them. <et others praise justice and censure injustice! magnifying the re ards and honours of the one and abusing the otherO that is a manner of arguing hich! coming from them! - am ready to tolerate!

but from you ho ha#e spent your hole life in the consideration of this Nuestion! unless - hear the contrary from your o n lips! - expect something better. =nd therefore! - say! not only pro#e to us that justice is better than injustice! but sho hat they either of them do to the possessor of them! hich makes the one to be a good and the other an e#il! hether seen or unseen by gods and men. )8(R=TE) M ="E-;=9T:) - had al ays admired the genius of Glaucon and =deimantus! but on hearing these ords - as Nuite delighted! and saidA )ons of an illustrious father! that as not a bad beginning of the Elegiac #erses hich the admirer of Glaucon made in honour of you after you had distinguished yoursel#es at the battle of ;egaraAMM T)ons of =riston!. he sang! Tdi#ine offspring of an illustrious hero.. The epithet is #ery appropriate! for there is something truly di#ine in being able to argue as you ha#e done for the superiority of injustice! and remaining uncon#inced by your o n arguments. =nd - do belie#e that you are not con#incedMMthis - infer from your general character! for had - judged only from your speeches - should ha#e mistrusted you. &ut no ! the greater my confidence in you! the greater is my difficulty in kno ing hat to say. $or - am in a strait bet een t oO on the one hand - feel that - am uneNual to the taskO and my inability is brought home to me by the fact that you ere not satisfied ith the ans er hich - made to Thrasymachus! pro#ing! as - thought! the superiority hich justice has o#er injustice. =nd yet - cannot refuse to help! hile breath and speech remain to meO - am afraid that there ould be an impiety in being present hen justice is e#il spoken of and not lifting up a hand in her defence. =nd therefore - had best gi#e such help as - can. Glaucon and the rest entreated me by all means not to let the Nuestion drop! but to proceed in the in#estigation. They anted to arri#e at the truth! first! about the nature of justice and injustice! and secondly! about their relati#e ad#antages. - told them! hat -MM really thought! that the enNuiry ould be of a serious nature!

and ould reNuire #ery good eyes. )eeing then! - said! that e are no great its! - think that e had better adopt a method hich - may illustrate thusO suppose that a shortMsighted person had been asked by some one to read small letters from a distanceO and it occurred to some one else that they might be found in another place hich as larger and in hich the letters ere largerMM if they ere the same and he could read the larger letters first! and then proceed to the lesserMMthis ould ha#e been thought a rare piece of good fortune. %ery true! said =deimantusO but ho does the illustration apply to our enNuiryK - ill tell you! - repliedO justice! hich is the subject of our enNuiry! is! as you kno ! sometimes spoken of as the #irtue of an indi#idual! and sometimes as the #irtue of a )tate. True! he replied. =nd is not a )tate larger than an indi#idualK -t is. Then in the larger the Nuantity of justice is likely to be larger and more easily discernible. - propose therefore that e enNuire into the nature of justice and injustice! first as they appear in the )tate! and secondly in the indi#idual! proceeding from the greater to the lesser and comparing them. That! he said! is an excellent proposal. =nd if e imagine the )tate in process of creation! e shall see the justice and injustice of the )tate in process of creation also. - dare say. When the )tate is completed there may be a hope that the object of our search ill be more easily disco#ered. Les! far more easily.

&ut ought e to attempt to construct oneK - saidO for to do so! as - am inclined to think! ill be a #ery serious task. Reflect therefore. - ha#e reflected! said =deimantus! and am anxious that you should proceed. = )tate! - said! arises! as - concei#e! out of the needs of mankindO no one is selfMsufficing! but all of us ha#e many ants. (an any other origin of a )tate be imaginedK There can - be no other. Then! as e ha#e many ants! and many persons are needed to supply them! one takes a helper for one purpose and another for anotherO and hen these partners and helpers are gathered together in one habitation the body of inhabitants is termed a )tate. True! he said. =nd they exchange ith one another! and one gi#es! and another recei#es! under the idea that the exchange ill be for their good. %ery true. Then! - said! let us begin and create in idea a )tateO and yet the true creator is necessity! ho is the mother of our in#ention. 8f course! he replied. 9o the first and greatest of necessities is food! hich is the condition of life and existence. (ertainly. The second is a d elling! and the third clothing and the like. True.

=nd no let us see ho our city ill be able to supply this great demandA We may suppose that one man is a husbandman! another a builder! some one else a ea#erMMshall e add to them a shoemaker! or perhaps some other pur#eyor to our bodily antsK Puite right. The barest notion of a )tate must include four or fi#e men. (learly. =nd ho ill they proceedK Will each bring the result of his labours into a common stockKMMthe indi#idual husbandman! for example! producing for four! and labouring four times as long and as much as he need in the pro#ision of food ith hich he supplies others as ell as himselfO or ill he ha#e nothing to do ith others and not be at the trouble of producing for them! but pro#ide for himself alone a fourth of the food in a fourth of the time! and in the remaining threeMfourths of his time be employed in making a house or a coat or a pair of shoes! ha#ing no partnership ith others! but supplying himself all his o n antsK =deimantus thought that he should aim at producing food only and not at producing e#erything. Probably! - replied! that ould be the better ayO and hen - hear you say this! - am myself reminded that e are not all alikeO there are di#ersities of natures among us hich are adapted to different occupations. %ery true. =nd ill you ha#e a ork better done hen the orkman has many occupations! or hen he has only oneK When he has only one. $urther! there can be no doubt that a ork is spoilt hen not done at the right timeK

9o doubt. $or business is not disposed to ait until the doer of the business is at leisureO but the doer must follo up hat he is doing! and make the business his first object. 'e must. =nd if so! e must infer that all things are produced more plentifully and easily and of a better Nuality hen one man does one thing hich is natural to him and does it at the right time! and lea#es other things. :ndoubtedly.. Then more than four citi7ens ill be reNuiredO for the husbandman ill not make his o n plough or mattock! or other implements of agriculture! if they are to be good for anything. 9either ill the builder make his toolsMMand he too needs manyO and in like manner the ea#er and shoemaker. True. Then carpenters! and smiths! and many other artisans! ill be sharers in our little )tate! hich is already beginning to gro K True. Let e#en if e add neatherds! shepherds! and other herdsmen! in order that our husbandmen may ha#e oxen to plough ith! and builders as ell as husbandmen may ha#e draught cattle! and curriers and ea#ers fleeces and hides!MMstill our )tate ill not be #ery large. That is trueO yet neither ill it be a #ery small )tate hich contains all these. Then! again! there is the situation of the cityMMto find a place here nothing need be imported is ellMnigh impossible.

-mpossible. Then there must be another class of citi7ens ho ill bring the reNuired supply from another cityK There must. &ut if the trader goes emptyMhanded! ha#ing nothing hich they reNuire ho ould supply his need! he ill come back emptyMhanded. That is certain. =nd therefore hat they produce at home must be not only enough for themsel#es! but such both in Nuantity and Nuality as to accommodate those from hom their ants are supplied. %ery true. Then more husbandmen and more artisans ill be reNuiredK They ill. 9ot to mention the importers and exporters! ho are called merchantsK Les. Then e shall ant merchantsK We shall. =nd if merchandise is to be carried o#er the sea! skilful sailors ill also be needed! and in considerable numbersK Les! in considerable numbers. Then! again! ithin the city! ho ill they exchange their productionsK To secure such an exchange as! as you ill remember! one of our principal objects hen e formed them into a society and constituted a )tate.

(learly they ill buy and sell. Then they ill need a marketMplace! and a moneyMtoken for purposes of exchange. (ertainly. )uppose no that a husbandman! or an artisan! brings some production to market! and he comes at a time hen there is no one to exchange ith him!MMis he to lea#e his calling and sit idle in the marketMplaceK 9ot at allO he ill find people there ho! seeing the ant! undertake the office of salesmen. -n ellMordered )tates they are commonly those ho are the eakest in bodily strength! and therefore of little use for any other purposeO their duty is to be in the market! and to gi#e money in exchange for goods to those ho desire to sell and to take money from those ho desire to buy. This ant! then! creates a class of retailMtraders in our )tate. -s not Tretailer. the term hich is applied to those ho sit in the marketMplace engaged in buying and selling! hile those ho ander from one city to another are called merchantsK Les! he said. =nd there is another class of ser#ants! ho are intellectually hardly on the le#el of companionshipO still they ha#e plenty of bodily strength for labour! hich accordingly they sell! and are called! if - do not mistake! hirelings! hire being the name hich is gi#en to the price of their labour. True. Then hirelings ill help to make up our populationK Les. =nd no ! =deimantus! is our )tate matured and perfectedK - think so.

Where! then! is justice! and here is injustice! and in hat part of the )tate did they spring upK Probably in the dealings of these citi7ens ith one another. cannot imagine that they are more likely to be found any here else. - dare say that you are right in your suggestion! - saidO e had better think the matter out! and not shrink from the enNuiry. <et us then consider! first of all! hat ill be their ay of life! no that e ha#e thus established them. Will they not produce corn! and ine! and clothes! and shoes! and build houses for themsel#esK =nd hen they are housed! they ill ork! in summer! commonly! stripped and barefoot! but in inter substantially clothed and shod. They ill feed on barleyMmeal and flour of heat! baking and kneading them! making noble cakes and loa#esO these they ill ser#e up on a mat of reeds or on clean lea#es! themsel#es reclining the hile upon beds stre n ith ye or myrtle. =nd they and their children ill feast! drinking of the ine hich they ha#e made! earing garlands on their heads! and hymning the praises of the gods! in happy con#erse ith one another. =nd they ill take care that their families do not exceed their meansO ha#ing an eye to po#erty or ar. )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 &ut! said Glaucon! interposing! you ha#e not gi#en them a relish to their meal. True! - replied! - had forgottenO of course they must ha#e a relishMsalt! and oli#es! and cheese! and they ill boil roots and herbs such as country people prepareO for a dessert e shall gi#e them figs! and peas! and beansO and they ill roast myrtleMberries and acorns at the fire! drinking in moderation. =nd ith such a diet they may be expected to li#e in peace and health to a good old age! and beNueath a similar life to their children after them. Les! )ocrates! he said! and if you ere pro#iding for a city of pigs! ho else ould you feed the beastsK

&ut hat ould you ha#e! GlauconK - replied. Why! he said! you should gi#e them the ordinary con#eniences of life. People ho are to be comfortable are accustomed to lie on sofas! and dine off tables! and they should ha#e sauces and s eets in the modern style. Les! - said! no - understandA the Nuestion hich you ould ha#e me consider is! not only ho a )tate! but ho a luxurious )tate is createdO and possibly there is no harm in this! for in such a )tate e shall be more likely to see ho justice and injustice originate. -n my opinion the true and healthy constitution of the )tate is the one hich - ha#e described. &ut if you ish also to see a )tate at fe#er heat! - ha#e no objection. $or - suspect that many ill not be satisfied ith the simpler ay of ay They ill be for adding sofas! and tables! and other furnitureO also dainties! and perfumes! and incense! and courtesans! and cakes! all these not of one sort only! but in e#ery #arietyO e must go beyond the necessaries of hich as at first speaking! such as houses! and clothes! and shoesA the arts of the painter and the embroiderer ill ha#e to be set in motion! and gold and i#ory and all sorts of materials must be procured. True! he said. Then e must enlarge our bordersO for the original healthy )tate is no longer sufficient. 9o ill the city ha#e to fill and s ell ith a multitude of callings hich are not reNuired by any natural antO such as the hole tribe of hunters and actors! of hom one large class ha#e to do ith forms and coloursO another ill be the #otaries of musicMMpoets and their attendant train of rhapsodists! players! dancers! contractorsO also makers of di#ers kinds of articles! including omen.s dresses. =nd e shall ant more ser#ants. Will not tutors be also in reNuest! and nurses et and dry! tire omen and barbers! as ell as confectioners and cooksO and s ineherds! too! ho ere not needed and therefore had no place in the former edition of our )tate! but are needed no K They must not be forgottenA and there ill be animals of many other kinds! if people eat them.

(ertainly. =nd li#ing in this ay e shall ha#e much greater need of physicians than beforeK ;uch greater. =nd the country hich as enough to support the original inhabitants ill be too small no ! and not enoughK Puite true. Then a slice of our neighbours. land ill be anted by us for pasture and tillage! and they ill ant a slice of ours! if! like oursel#es! they exceed the limit of necessity! and gi#e themsel#es up to the unlimited accumulation of ealthK That! )ocrates! ill be ine#itable. =nd so e shall go to ar! Glaucon. )hall e notK ;ost certainly! he replied. Then ithout determining as yet hether ar does good or harm! thus much e may affirm! that no e ha#e disco#ered ar to be deri#ed from causes hich are also the causes of almost all the e#ils in )tates! pri#ate as ell as public. :ndoubtedly. =nd our )tate must once more enlargeO and this time the ill be nothing short of a hole army! hich ill ha#e to go out and fight ith the in#aders for all that e ha#e! as ell as for the things and persons hom e ere describing abo#e. WhyK he saidO are they not capable of defending themsel#esK 9o! - saidO not if e ere right in the principle hich as ackno ledged by all of us hen e ere framing the )tateA

the principle! as you ill remember! as that one man cannot practise many arts ith success. %ery true! he said. &ut is not ar an artK (ertainly. =nd an art reNuiring as much attention as shoemakingK Puite true. =nd the shoemaker as not allo ed by us to be husbandman! or a ea#er! a builderMMin order that e might ha#e our shoes ell madeO but to him and to e#ery other orker as assigned one ork for hich he as by nature fitted! and at that he as to continue orking all his life long and at no otherO he as not to let opportunities slip! and then he ould become a good orkman. 9o nothing can be more important than that the ork of a soldier should be ell done. &ut is ar an art so easily acNuired that a man may be a arrior ho is also a husbandman! or shoemaker! or other artisanO although no one in the orld ould be a good dice or draught player ho merely took up the game as a recreation! and had not from his earliest years de#oted himself to this and nothing elseK 9o tools ill make a man a skilled orkman! or master of defence! nor be of any use to him ho has not learned ho to handle them! and has ne#er besto ed any attention upon them. 'o then ill he ho takes up a shield or other implement of ar become a good fighter all in a day! hether ith hea#yMarmed or any other kind of troopsK Les! he said! the tools hich ould teach men their o n use ould be beyond price. =nd the higher the duties of the guardian! - said! the more time! and skill! and art! and application ill be needed by himK

9o doubt! he replied. Will he not also reNuire natural aptitude for his callingK (ertainly. Then it ill be our duty to select! if e can! natures hich are fitted for the task of guarding the cityK -t ill. =nd the selection ill be no easy matter! - saidO but e must be bra#e and do our best. We must. -s not the noble youth #ery like a ellMbred dog in respect of guarding and atchingK What do you meanK - mean that both of them ought to be Nuick to see! and s ift to o#ertake the enemy hen they see himO and strong too if! hen they ha#e caught him! they ha#e to fight ith him. =ll these Nualities! he replied! ill certainly be reNuired by them. Well! and your guardian must be bra#e if he is to fight ellK (ertainly. =nd is he likely to be bra#e ho has no spirit! hether horse or dog or any other animalK 'a#e you ne#er obser#ed ho in#incible and unconNuerable is spirit and ho the presence of it makes the soul of any creature to be absolutely fearless and indomitableK - ha#e. Then no e ha#e a clear notion of the bodily Nualities hich are reNuired in the guardian.

True. =nd also of the mental onesO his soul is to be full of spiritK Les. &ut are not these spirited natures apt to be sa#age ith one another! and ith e#erybody elseK = difficulty by no means easy to o#ercome! he replied. Whereas! - said! they ought to be dangerous to their enemies! and gentle to their friendsO if not! they ill destroy themsel#es ithout aiting for their enemies to destroy them. True! he said. What is to be done thenK - saidO ho shall e find a gentle nature hich has also a great spirit! for the one is the contradiction of the otherK True. 'e ill not be a good guardian ho is anting in either of these t o NualitiesO and yet the combination of them appears to be impossibleO and hence e must infer that to be a good guardian is impossible. - am afraid that hat you say is true! he replied. 'ere feeling perplexed - began to think o#er hat had preceded. ;y friend! - said! no onder that e are in a perplexityO for e ha#e lost sight of the image hich e had before us. What do you meanK he said. - mean to say that there do exist natures gifted ith those opposite Nualities. =nd here do you find themK

;any animals! - replied! furnish examples of themO our friend the dog is a #ery good oneA you kno that ellMbred dogs are perfectly gentle to their familiars and acNuaintances! and the re#erse to strangers. Les! - kno . Then there is nothing impossible or out of the order of nature in our finding a guardian ho has a similar combination of NualitiesK (ertainly not. Would not he ho is fitted to be a guardian! besides the spirited nature! need to ha#e the Nualities of a philosopherK - do not apprehend your meaning. The trait of hich - am speaking! - replied! may be also seen in the dog! and is remarkable in the animal. What traitK Why! a dog! hene#er he sees a stranger! is angryO hen an acNuaintance! he elcomes him! although the one has ne#er done him any harm! nor the other any good. "id this ne#er strike you as curiousK The matter ne#er struck me beforeO but - Nuite recognise the truth of your remark. =nd surely this instinct of the dog is #ery charmingOMMyour dog is a true philosopher. WhyK Why! because he distinguishes the face of a friend and of an enemy only by the criterion of kno ing and not kno ing. =nd must not an animal be a lo#er of learning ho determines hat he likes and dislikes by the test of kno ledge and ignoranceK ;ost assuredly.

=nd is not the lo#e of learning the lo#e of isdom! hich is philosophyK They are the same! he replied. =nd may e not say confidently of man also! that he ho is likely to be gentle to his friends and acNuaintances! must by nature be a lo#er of isdom and kno ledgeK That e may safely affirm. Then he ho is to be a really good and noble guardian of the )tate ill reNuire to unite in himself philosophy and spirit and s iftness and strengthK :ndoubtedly. Then e ha#e found the desired naturesO and no that e ha#e found them! ho are they to be reared and educatedK -s not this enNuiry hich may be expected to thro light on the greater enNuiry hich is our final endMM'o do justice and injustice gro up in )tatesK for e do not ant either to omit hat is to the point or to dra out the argument to an incon#enient length. )8(R=TE) M ="E-;=9T:) =deimantus thought that the enNuiry ould be of great ser#ice to us. Then! - said! my dear friend! the task must not be gi#en up! e#en if some hat long. (ertainly not. (ome then! and let us pass a leisure hour in storyMtelling! and our story shall be the education of our heroes. &y all means. =nd hat shall be their educationK (an e find a better than the traditional sortKMMand this has t o di#isions! gymnastic for

the body! and music for the soul. True. )hall e begin education ith music! and go on to gymnastic after ardsK &y all means. =nd hen you speak of music! do you include literature or notK - do. =nd literature may be either true or falseK Les. =nd the young should be trained in both kinds! and e begin ith the falseK - do not understand your meaning! he said. Lou kno ! - said! that e begin by telling children stories hich! though not holly destitute of truth! are in the main fictitiousO and these stories are told them hen they are not of an age to learn gymnastics. %ery true. That as my meaning hen - said that e must teach music before gymnastics. Puite right! he said. Lou kno also that the beginning is the most important part of any ork! especially in the case of a young and tender thingO for that is the time at hich the character is being formed and the desired impression is more readily taken. Puite true.

=nd shall e just carelessly allo children to hear any casual tales hich may be de#ised by casual persons! and to recei#e into their minds ideas for the most part the #ery opposite of those hich e should ish them to ha#e hen they are gro n upK We cannot. Then the first thing ill be to establish a censorship of the riters of fiction! and let the censors recei#e any tale of fiction hich is good! and reject the badO and e ill desire mothers and nurses to tell their children the authorised ones only. <et them fashion the mind ith such tales! e#en more fondly than they mould the body ith their handsO but most of those hich are no in use must be discarded. 8f hat tales are you speakingK he said. Lou may find a model of the lesser in the greater! - saidO for they are necessarily of the same type! and there is the same spirit in both of them. %ery likely! he repliedO but - do not as yet kno term the greater. hat you ould

Those! - said! hich are narrated by 'omer and 'esiod! and the rest of the poets! ho ha#e e#er been the great storyMtellers of mankind. &ut hich stories do you mean! he saidO and hat fault do you find ith themK = fault hich is most serious! - saidO the fault of telling a lie! and! hat is more! a bad lie. &ut hen is this fault committedK Whene#er an erroneous representation is made of the nature of gods and heroes!MMas hen a painter paints a portrait not ha#ing the shado of a likeness to the original. Les! he said! that sort of thing is certainly #ery blamableO but hat are the stories hich you meanK

$irst of all! - said! there as that greatest of all lies! in high places! hich the poet told about :ranus! and hich as a bad lie too!MM - mean hat 'esiod says that :ranus did! and ho (ronus retaliated on him. The doings of (ronus! and the sufferings hich in turn his son inflicted upon him! e#en if they ere true! ought certainly not to be lightly told to young and thoughtless personsO if possible! they had better be buried in silence. &ut if there is an absolute necessity for their mention! a chosen fe might hear them in a mystery! and they should sacrifice not a common 1Eleusinian5 pig! but some huge and unprocurable #ictimO and then the number of the hearers ill be #ery fe indeed. Why! yes! said he! those stories are extremely objectionable. Les! =deimantus! they are stories not to be repeated in our )tateO the young man should not be told that in committing the orst of crimes he is far from doing anything outrageousO and that e#en if he chastises his father hen does rong! in hate#er manner! he ill only be follo ing the example of the first and greatest among the gods. - entirely agree ith you! he saidO in my opinion those stories are Nuite unfit to be repeated. 9either! if e mean our future guardians to regard the habit of Nuarrelling among themsel#es as of all things the basest! should any ord be said to them of the ars in hea#en! and of the plots and fightings of the gods against one another! for they are not true. 9o! e shall ne#er mention the battles of the giants! or let them be embroidered on garmentsO and e shall be silent about the innumerable other Nuarrels of gods and heroes ith their friends and relati#es. -f they ould only belie#e us e ould tell them that Nuarrelling is unholy! and that ne#er up to this time has there been any! Nuarrel bet een citi7ensO this is hat old men and old omen should begin by telling childrenO and hen they gro up! the poets also should be told to compose for them in a similar spirit. &ut the narrati#e of 'ephaestus binding 'ere his mother! or ho on another occasion Ueus sent him flying for taking her part hen she as being beaten! and all the battles

of the gods in 'omerMMthese tales must not be admitted into our )tate! hether they are supposed to ha#e an allegorical meaning or not. $or a young person cannot judge hat is allegorical and hat is literalO anything that he recei#es into his mind at that age is likely to become indelible and unalterableO and therefore it is most important that the tales hich the young first hear should be models of #irtuous thoughts. There you are right! he repliedO but if any one asks here are such models to be found and of hat tales are you speakingMM ho shall e ans er himK - said to him! Lou and -! =deimantus! at this moment are not poets! but founders of a )tateA no the founders of a )tate ought to kno the general forms in hich poets should cast their tales! and the limits hich must be obser#ed by them! but to make the tales is not their business. %ery true! he saidO but hat are these forms of theology hich you meanK )omething of this kind! - repliedAMMGod is al ays to be represented as he truly is! hate#er be the sort of poetry! epic! lyric or tragic! in hich the representation is gi#en. Right. =nd is he not truly goodK and must he not be represented as suchK (ertainly. =nd no good thing is hurtfulK 9o! indeed. =nd that hich is not hurtful hurts notK (ertainly not. =nd that hich hurts not does no e#ilK

9o. =nd can that hich does no e#il be a cause of e#ilK -mpossible. =nd the good is ad#antageousK Les. =nd therefore the cause of ellMbeingK Les. -t follo s therefore that the good is not the cause of all things! but of the good onlyK =ssuredly. Then God! if he be good! is not the author of all things! as the many assert! but he is the cause of a fe things only! and not of most things that occur to men. $or fe are the goods of human life! and many are the e#ils! and the good is to be attributed to God aloneO of the e#ils the causes are to be sought else here! and not in him. That appears to me to be most true! he said. Then e must not listen to 'omer or to any other poet ho is guilty of the folly of saying that t o casks <ie at the threshold of Ueus! full of lots! one of good! the other of e#il lots! and that he to hom Ueus gi#es a mixture of the t o )ometimes meets ith e#il fortune! at other times ith goodO but that he to hom is gi#en the cup of unmingled ill!

'im ild hunger dri#es o.er the beauteous earth. =nd again Ueus! ho is the dispenser of good and e#il to us. =nd if any one asserts that the #iolation of oaths and treaties! hich as really the ork of Pandarus! as brought about by =thene and Ueus! or that the strife and contention of the gods as instigated by Themis and Ueus! he shall not ha#e our appro#alO neither ill e allo our young men to hear the ords of =eschylus! that God plants guilt among men hen he desires utterly to destroy a house. =nd if a poet rites of the sufferings of 9iobeMMthe subject of the tragedy in hich these iambic #erses occurMMor of the house of Pelops! or of the Trojan ar or on any similar theme! either e must not permit him to say that these are the orks of God! or if they are of God! he must de#ise some explanation of them such as e are seekingO he must say that God did hat as just and right! and they ere the better for being punishedO but that those ho are punished are miserable! and that God is the author of their miseryMM the poet is not to be permitted to sayO though he may say that the icked are miserable because they reNuire to be punished! and are benefited by recei#ing punishment from GodO but that God being good is the author of e#il to any one is to be strenuously denied! and not to be said or sung or heard in #erse or prose by any one hether old or young in any ellMordered common ealth. )uch a fiction is suicidal! ruinous! impious. - agree ith you! he replied! and am ready to gi#e my assent to the la . <et this then be one of our rules and principles concerning the gods! to hich our poets and reciters ill be expected to conformMM that God is not the author of all things! but of good only. That ill do! he said.

=nd hat do you think of a second principleK )hall - ask you hether God is a magician! and of a nature to appear insidiously no in one shape! and no in anotherMMsometimes himself changing and passing into many forms! sometimes decei#ing us ith the semblance of such transformationsO or is he one and the same immutably fixed in his o n proper imageK - cannot ans er you! he said! ithout more thought. Well! - saidO but if e suppose a change in anything! that change must be effected either by the thing itself! or by some other thingK ;ost certainly. =nd things hich are at their best are also least liable to be altered or discomposedO for example! hen healthiest and strongest! the human frame is least liable to be affected by meats and drinks! and the plant hich is in the fullest #igour also suffers least from inds or the heat of the sun or any similar causes. 8f course. =nd ill not the bra#est and isest soul be least confused or deranged by any external influenceK True. =nd the same principle! as - should suppose! applies to all composite thingsMMfurniture! houses! garmentsO hen good and ell made! they are least altered by time and circumstances. %ery true. Then e#erything hich is good! hether made by art or nature! or both! is least liable to suffer change from ithoutK True. &ut surely God and the things of God are in e#ery ay perfectK

8f course they are. Then he can hardly be compelled by external influence to take many shapesK 'e cannot. &ut may he not change and transform himselfK (learly! he said! that must be the case if he is changed at all. =nd ill he then change himself for the better and fairer! or for the orse and more unsightlyK -f he change at all he can only change for the orse! for e cannot suppose him to be deficient either in #irtue or beauty. %ery true! =deimantusO but then! ould any one! hether God or man! desire to make himself orseK -mpossible. Then it is impossible that God should e#er be illing to changeO being! as is supposed! the fairest and best that is concei#able! e#ery god remains absolutely and for e#er in his o n form. That necessarily follo s! he said! in my judgment. Then! - said! my dear friend! let none of the poets tell us that The gods! taking the disguise of strangers from other lands! alk up and do n cities in all sorts of formsO and let no one slander Proteus and Thetis! neither let any one! either in tragedy or in any other kind of poetry! introduce 'ere disguised in the likeness of a priestess asking an alms $or the lifeMgi#ing daughters of -nachus the ri#er of =rgosO

MMlet us ha#e no more lies of that sort. 9either must e ha#e mothers under the influence of the poets scaring their children ith a bad #ersion of these mythsMMtelling ho certain gods! as they say! TGo about by night in the likeness of so many strangers and in di#ers forms.O but let them take heed lest they make co ards of their children! and at the same time speak blasphemy against the gods. 'ea#en forbid! he said. &ut although the gods are themsel#es unchangeable! still by itchcraft and deception they may make us think that they appear in #arious formsK Perhaps! he replied. Well! but can you imagine that God ill be illing to lie! hether in ord or deed! or to put forth a phantom of himselfK - cannot say! he replied. "o you not kno ! - said! that the true lie! if such an expression may be allo ed! is hated of gods and menK What do you meanK he said. - mean that no one is illingly decei#ed in that hich is the truest and highest part of himself! or about the truest and highest mattersO there! abo#e all! he is most afraid of a lie ha#ing possession of him. )till! he said! - do not comprehend you. The reason is! - replied! that you attribute some profound meaning to my ordsO but - am only saying that deception! or being decei#ed or uninformed about the highest realities in the highest part of themsel#es! hich is the soul! and in that part of them to ha#e and to hold the lie! is hat mankind least likeOMMthat! - say! is hat they utterly detest. There is nothing more hateful to them. =nd! as - as just no remarking! this ignorance in the soul of him

ho is decei#ed may be called the true lieO for the lie in ords is only a kind of imitation and shado y image of a pre#ious affection of the soul! not pure unadulterated falsehood. =m - not rightK Perfectly right. The true lie is hated not only by the gods! but also by menK Les. Whereas the lie in ords is in certain cases useful and not hatefulO in dealing ith enemiesMMthat ould be an instanceO or again! hen those hom e call our friends in a fit of madness or illusion are going to do some harm! then it is useful and is a sort of medicine or pre#enti#eO also in the tales of mythology! of hich e ere just no speakingMMbecause e do not kno the truth about ancient times! e make falsehood as much like truth as e can! and so turn it to account. %ery true! he said. &ut can any of these reasons apply to GodK (an e suppose that he is ignorant of antiNuity! and therefore has recourse to in#entionK That ould be ridiculous! he said. Then the lying poet has no place in our idea of GodK - should say not. 8r perhaps he may tell a lie because he is afraid of enemiesK That is inconcei#able. &ut he may ha#e friends ho are senseless or madK &ut no mad or senseless person can be a friend of God. Then no moti#e can be imagined hy God should lieK

9one hate#er. Then the superhuman and di#ine is absolutely incapable of falsehoodK Les. Then is God perfectly simple and true both in ord and deedO he changes notO he decei#es not! either by sign or ord! by dream or aking #ision. Lour thoughts! he said! are the reflection of my o n. Lou agree ith me then! - said! that this is the second type or form in hich e should rite and speak about di#ine things. The gods are not magicians ho transform themsel#es! neither do they decei#e mankind in any ay. - grant that. Then! although e are admirers of 'omer! e do not admire the lying dream hich Ueus sends to =gamemnonO neither ill e praise the #erses of =eschylus in hich Thetis says that =pollo at her nuptials Was celebrating in song her fair progeny hose days ere to he long! and to kno no sickness. =nd hen he had spoken of my lot as in all things blessed of hea#en he raised a note of triumph and cheered my soul. =nd thought that the ord of Phoebus being di#ine and full of prophecy! ould not fail. =nd no he himself ho uttered the strain! he ho as present at the banNuet! and ho said thisMMhe it is ho has slain my son. These are the kind of sentiments about the gods hich ill arouse our angerO and he ho utters them shall be refused a chorusO neither shall e allo teachers to make use of them in the instruction of the young! meaning! as e do! that our guardians! as far as men can be! should be true orshippers of the gods and like them. - entirely agree! be said! in these principles! and promise to make them my la s.

&88Q --)8(R=TE) M ="E-;=9T:) ):(' then! - said! are our principles of theologyMMsome tales are to be told! and others are not to be told to our disciples from their youth up ards! if e mean them to honour the gods and their parents! and to #alue friendship ith one another. LesO and - think that our principles are right! he said. &ut if they are to be courageous! must they not learn other lessons besides these! and lessons of such a kind as ill take a ay the fear of deathK (an any man be courageous ho has the fear of death in himK (ertainly not! he said. =nd can he be fearless of death! or ill he choose death in battle rather than defeat and sla#ery! ho belie#es the orld belo to be real and terribleK -mpossible. Then e must assume a control o#er the narrators of this class of tales as ell as o#er the others! and beg them not simply to but rather to commend the orld belo ! intimating to them that their descriptions are untrue! and ill do harm to our future arriors. That ill be our duty! he said. Then! - said! e shall ha#e to obliterate many obnoxious passages! beginning ith the #erses! - ould rather he a serf on the land of a poor and portionless man

than rule o#er all the dead ho ha#e come to nought. We must also expunge the #erse! hich tells us ho Pluto feared! <est the mansions grim and sNualid hich the gods abhor should he seen both of mortals and immortals. =nd againA 8 hea#ensD #erily in the house of 'ades there is soul and ghostly form but no mind at allD =gain of TiresiasAMM 1To him e#en after death did Persephone grant mind!5 that he alone should be iseO but the other souls are flitting shades. =gainAMM The soul flying from the limbs had gone to 'ades! lamentng her fate! lea#ing manhood and youth. =gainAMM =nd the soul! ith shrilling cry! passed like smoke beneath the earth. =nd!MM =s bats in hollo of mystic ca#ern! hene#er any of the has dropped out of the string and falls from the rock! fly shrilling and cling to one another! so did they ith shrilling cry hold together as they mo#ed. =nd e must beg 'omer and the other poets not to be angry if e strike out these and similar passages! not because they are unpoetical! or unattracti#e to the popular ear! but because the greater the poetical charm of them! the less are they meet for the ears of boys and men ho are meant to be free! and ho should fear sla#ery more than death.

:ndoubtedly. =lso e shall ha#e to reject all the terrible and appalling names describe the orld belo MM(ocytus and )tyx! ghosts under the earth! and sapless shades! and any similar ords of hich the #ery mention causes a shudder to pass through the inmost soul of him ho hears them. - do not say that these horrible stories may not ha#e a use of some kindO but there is a danger that the ner#es of our guardians may be rendered too excitable and effeminate by them. There is a real danger! he said. Then e must ha#e no more of them. True. =nother and a nobler strain must be composed and sung by us. (learly. =nd shall e proceed to get rid of the eepings and ailings of famous menK They ill go ith the rest. &ut shall e be right in getting rid of themK ReflectA our principle is that the good man ill not consider death terrible to any other good man ho is his comrade. LesO that is our principle. =nd therefore he ill not sorro for his departed friend as though he had suffered anything terribleK 'e ill not. )uch an one! as e further maintain! is sufficient for himself and his o n happiness! and therefore is least in need of other men. True! he said.

=nd for this reason the loss of a son or brother! or the depri#ation of fortune! is to him of all men least terrible. =ssuredly. =nd therefore he ill be least likely to lament! and ill bear ith the greatest eNuanimity any misfortune of this sort hich may befall him. Les! he ill feel such a misfortune far less than another. Then e shall be right in getting rid of the lamentations of famous men! and making them o#er to omen >and not e#en to omen ho are good for anything?! or to men of a baser sort! that those ho are being educated by us to be the defenders of their country may scorn to do the like. That ill be #ery right. Then e ill once more entreat 'omer and the other poets not to depict =chilles! ho is the son of a goddess! first lying on his side! then on his back! and then on his faceO then starting up and sailing in a fren7y along the shores of the barren seaO no taking the sooty ashes in both his hands and pouring them o#er his head! or eeping and ailing in the #arious modes hich 'omer has delineated. 9or should he describe Priam the kinsman of the gods as praying and beseeching! Rolling in the dirt! calling each man loudly by his name. )till more earnestly ill e beg of him at all e#ents not to introduce the gods lamenting and saying! =lasD my miseryD =lasD that - bore the har#est to my sorro . &ut if he must introduce the gods! at any rate let him not dare so completely to misrepresent the greatest of the gods! as to make him sayMM 8 hea#ensD ith my eyes #erily - behold a dear friend of mine chased

round and round the city! and my heart is sorro ful. 8r againAMM Woe is me that - am fated to ha#e )arpedon! dearest of men to me! subdued at the hands of Patroclus the son of ;enoetius. $or if! my s eet =deimantus! our youth seriously listen to such un orthy representations of the gods! instead of laughing at them as they ought! hardly ill any of them deem that he himself! being but a man! can be dishonoured by similar actionsO neither ill he rebuke any inclination hich may arise in his mind to say and do the like. =nd instead of ha#ing any shame or selfMcontrol! he ill be al ays hining and lamenting on slight occasions. Les! he said! that is most true. Les! - repliedO but that surely is hat ought not to be! as the argument has just pro#ed to usO and by that proof e must abide until it is dispro#ed by a better. -t ought not to be. 9either ought our guardians to be gi#en to laughter. $or a fit of laughter hich has been indulged to excess almost al ays produces a #iolent reaction. )o - belie#e. Then persons of orth! e#en if only mortal men! must not be represented as o#ercome by laughter! and still less must such a representation of the gods be allo ed. )till less of the gods! as you say! he replied. Then e shall not suffer such an expression to be used about the gods as that of 'omer hen he describes ho -nextinguishable laughter arose among the blessed gods! hen they sa 'ephaestus bustling about the mansion.

8n your #ie s! e must not admit them. 8n my #ie s! if you like to father them on meO that e must not admit them is certain. =gain! truth should be highly #aluedO if! as e ere saying! a lie is useless to the gods! and useful only as a medicine to men! then the use of such medicines should be restricted to physiciansO pri#ate indi#iduals ha#e no business ith them. (learly not! he said. Then if any one at all is to ha#e the pri#ilege of lying! the rulers of the )tate should be the personsO and they! in their dealings either ith enemies or ith their o n citi7ens! may be allo ed to lie for the public good. &ut nobody else should meddle ith anything of the kindO and although the rulers ha#e this pri#ilege! for a pri#ate man to lie to them in return is to be deemed a more heinous fault than for the patient or the pupil of a gymnasium not to speak the truth about his o n bodily illnesses to the physician or to the trainer! or for a sailor not to tell the captain hat is happening about the ship and the rest of the cre ! and ho things are going ith himself or his fello sailors. ;ost true! he said. -f! then! the ruler catches anybody beside himself lying in the )tate! =ny of the craftsmen! hether he priest or physician or carpenter. he ill punish him for introducing a practice hich is eNually sub#ersi#e and destructi#e of ship or )tate. ;ost certainly! he said! if our idea of the )tate is e#er carried out. -n the next place our youth must be temperateK (ertainly.

=re not the chief elements of temperance! speaking generally! obedience to commanders and selfMcontrol in sensual pleasuresK True. Then e shall appro#e such language as that of "iomede in 'omer! $riend! sit still and obey my ord! and the #erses hich follo ! The Greeks marched breathing pro ess! ...in silent a e of their leaders! and other sentiments of the same kind. We shall. What of this line! 8 hea#y ith ine! ho hast the eyes of a dog and the heart of a stag! and of the ords hich follo K Would you say that these! or any similar impertinences hich pri#ate indi#iduals are supposed to address to their rulers! hether in #erse or prose! are ell or ill spokenK They are ill spoken. They may #ery possibly afford some amusement! but they do not conduce to temperance. =nd therefore they are likely to do harm to our young menMMyou ould agree ith me thereK Les. =nd then! again! to make the isest of men say that nothing in his opinion is more glorious than When the tables are full of bread and meat! and the cupMbearer carries round ine hich he dra s from the bo l and pours into the

cups! is it fit or conduci#e to temperance for a young man to hear such ordsK 8r the #erse The saddest of fates is to die and meet destiny from hungerK What ould you say again to the tale of Ueus! ho! hile other gods and men ere asleep and he the only person a ake! lay de#ising plans! but forgot them all in a moment through his lust! and as so completely o#ercome at the sight of 'ere that he ould not e#en go into the hut! but anted to lie ith her on the ground! declaring that he had ne#er been in such a state of rapture before! e#en hen they first met one another Without the kno ledge of their parentsO or that other tale of ho 'ephaestus! because of similar goings on! cast a chain around =res and =phroditeK -ndeed! he said! - am strongly of opinion that they ought not to hear that sort of thing. &ut any deeds of endurance hich are done or told by famous men! these they ought to see and hearO as! for example! hat is said in the #erses! 'e smote his breast! and thus reproached his heart! Endure! my heartO far orse hast thou enduredD (ertainly! he said. -n the next place! e must not let them be recei#ers of gifts or lo#ers of money. (ertainly not. 9either must e sing to them of Gifts persuading gods! and persuading re#erend kings.

9either is Phoenix! the tutor of =chilles! to be appro#ed or deemed to ha#e gi#en his pupil good counsel hen he told him that he should take the gifts of the Greeks and assist themO but that ithout a gift he should not lay aside his anger. 9either ill e belie#e or ackno ledge =chilles himself to ha#e been such a lo#er of money that he took =gamemnon.s or that hen he had recei#ed payment he restored the dead body of 'ector! but that ithout payment he as un illing to do so. :ndoubtedly! he said! these are not sentiments hich can be appro#ed. <o#ing 'omer as - do! - hardly like to say that in attributing these feelings to =chilles! or in belie#ing that they are truly to him! he is guilty of do nright impiety. =s little can - belie#e the narrati#e of his insolence to =pollo! here he says! Thou hast ronged me! 8 farMdarter! most abominable of deities. %erily - ould he e#en ith thee! if - had only the po er! or his insubordination to the ri#erMgod! on hose di#inity he is ready to lay handsO or his offering to the dead Patroclus of his o n hair! hich had been pre#iously dedicated to the other ri#erMgod )percheius! and that he actually performed this #o O or that he dragged 'ector round the tomb of Patroclus! and slaughtered the capti#es at the pyreO of all this - cannot belie#e that he as guilty! any more than - can allo our citi7ens to belie#e that he! the ise (heiron.s pupil! the son of a goddess and of Peleus ho as the gentlest of men and third in descent from Ueus! as so disordered in his its as to be at one time the sla#e of t o seemingly inconsistent passions! meanness! not untainted by a#arice! combined ith o#er eening contempt of gods and men. Lou are Nuite right! he replied. =nd let us eNually refuse to belie#e! or allo to be repeated! the tale of Theseus son of Poseidon! or of Peirithous son of Ueus! going forth as they did to perpetrate a horrid rapeO or of any other hero or son of a god daring to do such impious and dreadful things as they falsely ascribe to them in our dayA

and let us further compel the poets to declare either that these acts ere not done by them! or that they ere not the sons of godsOMM both in the same breath they shall not be permitted to affirm. We ill not ha#e them trying to persuade our youth that the gods are the authors of e#il! and that heroes are no better than menMsentiments hich! as e ere saying! are neither pious nor true! for e ha#e already pro#ed that e#il cannot come from the gods. =ssuredly not. =nd further they are likely to ha#e a bad effect on those ho hear themO for e#erybody ill begin to excuse his o n #ices hen he is con#inced that similar ickednesses are al ays being perpetrated byMM The kindred of the gods! the relati#es of Ueus! hose ancestral altar! the attar of Ueus! is aloft in air on the peak of -da! and ho ha#e the blood of deities yet flo ing in their #eins. =nd therefore let us put an end to such tales! lest they engender laxity of morals among the young. &y all means! he replied. &ut no that e are determining hat classes of subjects are or are not to be spoken of! let us see hether any ha#e been omitted by us. The manner in hich gods and demigods and heroes and the orld belo should be treated has been already laid do n. %ery true. =nd hat shall e say about menK That is clearly the remaining portion of our subject. (learly so. &ut e are not in a condition to ans er this Nuestion at present!

my friend. Why notK &ecause! if - am not mistaken! e shall ha#e to say that about men poets and storyMtellers are guilty of making the gra#est misstatements hen they tell us that icked men are often happy! and the good miserableO and that injustice is profitable hen undetected! but that justice is a man.s o n loss and another.s gainMMthese things e shall forbid them to utter! and command them to sing and say the opposite. To be sure e shall! he replied. &ut if you admit that - am right in this! then - shall maintain that you ha#e implied the principle for hich e ha#e been all along contending. - grant the truth of your inference. That such things are or are not to be said about men is a Nuestion hich e cannot determine until e ha#e disco#ered hat justice is! and ho naturally ad#antageous to the possessor! hether he seems to be just or not. ;ost true! he said. Enough of the subjects of poetryA let us no speak of the styleO and hen this has been considered! both matter and manner ill ha#e been completely treated. - do not understand hat you mean! said =deimantus. Then - must make you understandO and perhaps - may be more intelligible if - put the matter in this ay. Lou are a are! - suppose! that all mythology and poetry is a narration of e#ents! either past! present! or to comeK (ertainly! he replied. =nd narration may be either simple narration! or imitation! or a union of the t oK

That again! he said! - do not Nuite understand. - fear that - must be a ridiculous teacher hen - ha#e so much difficulty in making myself apprehended. <ike a bad speaker! therefore! - ill not take the hole of the subject! but ill break a piece off in illustration of my meaning. Lou kno the first lines of the -liad! in hich the poet says that (hryses prayed =gamemnon to release his daughter! and that =gamemnon fle into a passion ith himO hereupon (hryses! failing of his object! in#oked the anger of the God against the =chaeans. 9o as far as these lines! =nd he prayed all the Greeks! but especially the t o sons of =treus! the chiefs of the people! the poet is speaking in his o n personO he ne#er leads us to suppose that he is any one else. &ut in hat follo s he takes the person of (hryses! and then he does all that he can to make us belie#e that the speaker is not 'omer! but the aged priest himself. =nd in this double form he has cast the entire narrati#e of the e#ents hich occurred at Troy and in -thaca and throughout the 8dyssey. Les. =nd a narrati#e it remains both in the speeches hich the poet recites from time to time and in the intermediate passagesK Puite true. &ut hen the poet speaks in the person of another! may e not say that he assimilates his style to that of the person ho! as he informs you! is going to speakK (ertainly. =nd this assimilation of himself to another! either by the use of #oice or gesture! is the imitation of the person hose character he assumesK 8f course.

Then in this case the narrati#e of the poet may be said to proceed by ay of imitationK %ery true. 8r! if the poet e#ery here appears and ne#er conceals himself! then again the imitation is dropped! and his poetry becomes simple narration. 'o e#er! in order that - may make my meaning Nuite clear! and that you may no more say! - don.t understand!. - ill sho ho the change might be effected. -f 'omer had said! TThe priest came! ha#ing his daughter.s ransom in his hands! supplicating the =chaeans! and abo#e all the kingsO. and then if! instead of speaking in the person of (hryses! he had continued in his o n person! the ords ould ha#e been! not imitation! but simple narration. The passage ould ha#e run as follo s >- am no poet! and therefore - drop the metre?! TThe priest came and prayed the gods on behalf of the Greeks that they might capture Troy and return safely home! but begged that they ould gi#e him back his daughter! and take the ransom hich he brought! and respect the God. Thus he spoke! and the other Greeks re#ered the priest and assented. &ut =gamemnon as roth! and bade him depart and not come again! lest the staff and chaplets of the God should be of no a#ail to himMM the daughter of (hryses should not be released! he saidMM she should gro old ith him in =rgos. =nd then he told him to go a ay and not to pro#oke him! if he intended to get home unscathed. =nd the old man ent a ay in fear and silence! and! hen he had left the camp! he called upon =pollo by his many names! reminding him of e#erything hich he had done pleasing to him! hether in building his temples! or in offering sacrifice! and praying that his good deeds might be returned to him! and that the =chaeans might expiate his tears by the arro s of the god!.MMand so on. -n this ay the hole becomes simple narrati#e. - understand! he said. 8r you may suppose the opposite caseMMthat the intermediate passages are omitted! and the dialogue only left. That also! he said! - understandO you mean! for example! as in tragedy.

Lou ha#e concei#ed my meaning perfectlyO and if - mistake not! hat you failed to apprehend before is no made clear to you! that poetry and mythology are! in some cases! holly imitati#eMM instances of this are supplied by tragedy and comedyO there is like ise the opposite style! in hich the my poet is the only speakerMM of this the dithyramb affords the best exampleO and the combination of both is found in epic! and in se#eral other styles of poetry. "o take you ith meK Les! he saidO - see no hat you meant.

- ill ask you to remember also hat - began by saying! that e had done ith the subject and might proceed to the style. Les! - remember. -n saying this! - intended to imply that e must come to an understanding about the mimetic art!MM hether the poets! in narrating their stories! are to be allo ed by us to imitate! and if so! hether in hole or in part! and if the latter! in hat partsO or should all imitation be prohibitedK Lou mean! - suspect! to ask hether tragedy and comedy shall be admitted into our )tateK Les! - saidO but there may be more than this in NuestionA - really do not kno as yet! but hither the argument may blo ! thither e go. =nd go e ill! he said. Then! =deimantus! let me ask you hether our guardians ought to be imitatorsO or rather! has not this Nuestion been decided by the rule already laid do n that one man can only do one thing ell! and not manyO and that if he attempt many! he ill altogether fall of gaining much reputation in anyK (ertainly.

=nd this is eNually true of imitationO no one man can imitate many things as ell as he ould imitate a single oneK 'e cannot. Then the same person ill hardly be able to play a serious part in life! and at the same time to be an imitator and imitate many other parts as ellO for e#en hen t o species of imitation are nearly allied! the same persons cannot succeed in both! as! for example! the riters of tragedy and comedyMMdid you not just no call them imitationsK Les! - didO and you are right in thinking that the same persons cannot succeed in both. =ny more than they can be rhapsodists and actors at onceK True. 9either are comic and tragic actors the sameO yet all these things are but imitations. They are so. =nd human nature! =deimantus! appears to ha#e been coined into yet smaller pieces! and to be as incapable of imitating many things ell! as of performing ell the actions of hich the imitations are copies. Puite true! he replied. -f then e adhere to our original notion and bear in mind that our guardians! setting aside e#ery other business! are to dedicate themsel#es holly to the maintenance of freedom in the )tate! making this their craft! and engaging in no ork hich does not bear on this end! they ought not to practise or imitate anything elseO if they imitate at all! they should imitate from youth up ard only those characters hich are suitable to their professionMM the courageous! temperate! holy! free! and the likeO but they should not depict or be skilful at imitating any kind of illiberality or baseness! lest from imitation they should come to be hat they imitate.

"id you ne#er obser#e ho imitations! beginning in early youth and continuing far into life! at length gro into habits and become a second nature! affecting body! #oice! and mindK Les! certainly! he said. Then! - said! e ill not allo those for hom e profess a care and of hom e say that they ought to be good men! to imitate a oman! hether young or old! Nuarrelling ith her husband! or stri#ing and #aunting against the gods in conceit of her happiness! or hen she is in affliction! or sorro ! or eepingO and certainly not one ho is in sickness! lo#e! or labour. %ery right! he said. 9either must they represent sla#es! male or female! performing the offices of sla#esK They must not. =nd surely not bad men! hether co ards or any others! ho do the re#erse of hat e ha#e just been prescribing! ho scold or mock or re#ile one another in drink or out of in drink or! or ho in any other manner sin against themsel#es and their neighbours in ord or deed! as the manner of such is. 9either should they be trained to imitate the action or speech of men or omen ho are mad or badO for madness! like #ice! is to be kno n but not to be practised or imitated. %ery true! he replied. 9either may they imitate smiths or other artificers! or oarsmen! or boats ains! or the likeK 'o can they! he said! hen they are not allo ed to apply their minds to the callings of any of theseK 9or may they imitate the neighing of horses! the bello ing of bulls! the murmur of ri#ers and roll of the ocean! thunder! and all that sort of thingK

9ay! he said! if madness be forbidden! neither may they copy the beha#iour of madmen. Lou mean! - said! if - understand you aright! that there is one sort of narrati#e style hich may be employed by a truly good man hen he has anything to say! and that another sort ill be used by a man of an opposite character and education. =nd hich are these t o sortsK he asked. )uppose! - ans ered! that a just and good man in the course of a narration comes on some saying or action of another good man!MM - should imagine that he ill like to personate him! and ill not be ashamed of this sort of imitationA he ill be most ready to play the part of the good man hen he is acting firmly and iselyO in a less degree hen he is o#ertaken by illness or lo#e or drink! or has met ith any other disaster. &ut hen he comes to a character hich is un orthy of him! he ill not make a study of thatO he ill disdain such a person! and ill assume his likeness! if at all! for a moment only hen he is performing some good actionO at other times he ill be ashamed to play a part hich he has ne#er practised! nor ill he like to fashion and frame himself after the baser modelsO he feels the employment of such an art! unless in jest! to be beneath him! and his mind re#olts at it. )o - should expect! he replied. Then he ill adopt a mode of narration such as e ha#e illustrated out of 'omer! that is to say! his style ill be both imitati#e and narrati#eO but there ill be #ery little of the former! and a great deal of the latter. "o you agreeK (ertainly! he saidO that is the model hich such a speaker must necessarily take. &ut there is another sort of character ho ill narrate anything! and! the orse lie is! the more unscrupulous he ill beO nothing ill be too bad for himA and he ill be ready to imitate anything!

not as a joke! but in right good earnest! and before a large company. =s - as just no saying! he ill attempt to represent the roll of thunder! the noise of ind and hall! or the creaking of heels! and pulleys! and the #arious sounds of flutesO pipes! trumpets! and all sorts of instrumentsA he ill bark like a dog! bleat like a sheep! or cro like a cockO his entire art ill consist in imitation of #oice and gesture! and there ill be #ery little narration. That! he said! ill be his mode of speaking. These! then! are the t o kinds of styleK Les. =nd you ould agree ith me in saying that one of them is simple and has but slight changesO and if the harmony and rhythm are also chosen for their simplicity! the result is that the speaker! if hc speaks correctly! is al ays pretty much the same in style! and he ill keep ithin the limits of a single harmony >for the changes are not great?! and in like manner he ill make use of nearly the same rhythmK That is Nuite true! he said. Whereas the other reNuires all sorts of harmonies and all sorts of rhythms! if the music and the style are to correspond! because the style has all sorts of changes. That is also perfectly true! he replied. =nd do not the t o styles! or the mixture of the t o! comprehend all poetry! and e#ery form of expression in ordsK 9o one can say anything except in one or other of them or in both together. They include all! he said. =nd shall e recei#e into our )tate all the three styles! or one only of the t o unmixed stylesK or ould you include the mixedK - should prefer only to admit the pure imitator of #irtue.

Les! - said! =deimantus! but the mixed style is also #ery charmingA and indeed the pantomimic! hich is the opposite of the one chosen by you! is the most popular style ith children and their attendants! and ith the orld in general. - do not deny it. &ut - suppose you ould argue that such a style is unsuitable to our )tate! in hich human nature is not t ofold or manifold! for one man plays one part onlyK LesO Nuite unsuitable. =nd this is the reason hy in our )tate! and in our )tate only! e shall find a shoemaker to be a shoemaker and not a pilot also! and a husbandman to be a husbandman and not a dicast also! and a soldier a soldier and not a trader also! and the same throughoutK True! he said. =nd therefore hen any one of these pantomimic gentlemen! ho are so cle#er that they can imitate anything! comes to us! and makes a proposal to exhibit himself and his poetry! e ill fall do n and orship him as a s eet and holy and onderful beingO but e must also inform him that in our )tate such as he are not permitted to existO the la ill not allo them. =nd so hen e ha#e anointed him ith myrrh! and set a garland of ool upon his head! e shall send him a ay to another city. $or e mean to employ for our souls. health the rougher and se#erer poet or storyMteller! ho ill imitate the style of the #irtuous only! and ill follo those models hich e prescribed at first hen e began the education of our soldiers. We certainly ill! he said! if e ha#e the po er. Then no ! my friend! - said! that part of music or literary education hich relates to the story or myth may be considered to be finishedO for the matter and manner ha#e both been discussed.

- think so too! he said. 9ext in order ill follo melody and song. That is ob#ious. E#ery one can see already hat e ought to say about them! if e are to be consistent ith oursel#es. )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 - fear! said Glaucon! laughing! that the ords Te#ery one. hardly includes me! for - cannot at the moment say hat they should beO though - may guess. =t any rate you can tell that a song or ode has three partsMM the ords! the melody! and the rhythmO that degree of kno ledge may presupposeK Les! he saidO so much as that you may. =nd as for the ords! there surely be no difference ords bet een ords hich are and hich are not set to musicO both ill conform to the same la s! and these ha#e been already determined by usK Les. =nd the melody and rhythm ill depend upon the ordsK (ertainly. We ere saying! hen e spoke of the subjectMmatter! that e had no need of lamentations and strains of sorro K True. =nd hich are the harmonies expressi#e of sorro K Lou are musical! and can tell me. The harmonies hich you mean are the mixed or tenor <ydian!

and the fullMtoned or bass <ydian! and such like. These then! - said! must be banishedO e#en to omen ho ha#e a character to maintain they are of no use! and much less to men. (ertainly. -n the next place! drunkenness and softness and indolence are utterly unbecoming the character of our guardians. :tterly unbecoming. =nd hich are the soft or drinking harmoniesK The -onian! he replied! and the <ydianO they are termed Trelaxed.. Well! and are these of any military useK Puite the re#erse! he repliedO and if so the "orian and the Phrygian are the only ones hich you ha#e left. - ans eredA 8f the harmonies - kno nothing! but - ant to ha#e one arlike! to sound the note or accent hich a bra#e man utters in the hour of danger and stern resol#e! or hen his cause is failing! and he is going to ounds or death or is o#ertaken by some other e#il! and at e#ery such crisis meets the blo s of fortune ith firm step and a determination to endureO and another to be used by him in times of peace and freedom of action! hen there is no pressure of necessity! and he is seeking to persuade God by prayer! or man by instruction and admonition! or on the other hand! hen he is expressing his illingness to yield to persuasion or entreaty or admonition! and hich represents him hen by prudent conduct he has attained his end! not carried a ay by his success! but acting moderately and isely under the circumstances! and acNuiescing in the e#ent. These t o harmonies - ask you to lea#eO the strain of necessity and the strain of freedom! the strain of the unfortunate and the strain of the fortunate! the strain of courage! and the strain of temperanceO these! - say! lea#e. =nd these! he replied! are the "orian and Phrygian harmonies of hich - as just no speaking.

Then! - said! if these and these only are to be used in our songs and melodies! e shall not ant multiplicity of notes or a panharmonic scaleK - suppose not. Then e shall not maintain the artificers of lyres ith three corners and complex scales! or the makers of any other manyMstringed curiouslyMharmonised instrumentsK (ertainly not. &ut hat do you say to fluteMmakers and fluteMplayersK Would you admit them into our )tate hen you reflect that in this composite use of harmony the flute is orse than all the stringed instruments put togetherO e#en the panharmonic music is only an imitation of the fluteK (learly not. There remain then only the lyre and the harp for use in the city! and the shepherds may ha#e a pipe in the country. That is surely the conclusion to be dra n from the argument. The preferring of =pollo and his instruments to ;arsyas and his instruments is not at all strange! - said. 9ot at all! he replied. =nd so! by the dog of Egypt! e ha#e been unconsciously purging the )tate! hich not long ago e termed luxurious. =nd e ha#e done isely! he replied. Then let us no finish the purgation! - said. 9ext in order to harmonies! rhythms ill naturally follo ! and they should be subject to the same rules! for e ought not to seek out complex systems of metre! or metres of e#ery kind! but rather to disco#er hat rhythms are the expressions of a courageous and harmonious lifeO and hen e ha#e found them! e shall adapt the foot and the melody

to ords ha#ing a like spirit! not the ords to the foot and melody. To say hat these rhythms are ill be your dutyMMyou must teach me them! as you ha#e already taught me the harmonies. &ut! indeed! he replied! - cannot tell you. - only kno that there are some three principles of rhythm out of hich metrical systems are framed! just as in sounds there are four notes out of hich all the harmonies are composedO that is an obser#ation hich - ha#e made. &ut of hat sort of li#es they are se#erally the imitations - am unable to say. Then! - said! e must take "amon into our counselsO and he ill tell us hat rhythms are expressi#e of meanness! or insolence! or fury! or other un orthiness! and hat are to be reser#ed for the expression of opposite feelings. =nd - think that - ha#e an indistinct recollection of his mentioning a complex (retic rhythmO also a dactylic or heroic! and he arranged them in some manner hich - do not Nuite understand! making the rhythms eNual in the rise and fall of the foot! long and short alternatingO and! unless - am mistaken! he spoke of an iambic as ell as of a trochaic rhythm! and assigned to them short and long Nuantities. =lso in some cases he appeared to praise or censure the mo#ement of the foot Nuite as much as the rhythmO or perhaps a combination of the t oO for - am not certain hat he meant. These matters! ho e#er! as - as saying! had better be referred to "amon himself! for the analysis of the subject ould be difficult! you kno . Rather so! - should say. &ut there is no difficulty in seeing that grace or the absence of grace is an effect of good or bad rhythm. 9one at all. =nd also that good and bad rhythm naturally assimilate to a good and bad styleO and that harmony and discord in like manner follo styleO for our principle is that rhythm and harmony are regulated by the ords! and not the ords by them. /ust so! he said! they should follo the ords.

=nd ill not the ords and the character of the style depend on the temper of the soulK Les. =nd e#erything else on the styleK Les. Then beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on simplicity!MM- mean the true simplicity of a rightly and nobly ordered mind and character! not that other simplicity hich is only an euphemism for follyK %ery true! he replied. =nd if our youth are to do their ork in life! must they not make these graces and harmonies their perpetual aimK They must. =nd surely the art of the painter and e#ery other creati#e and constructi#e art are full of them!MM ea#ing! embroidery! architecture! and e#ery kind of manufactureO also nature! animal and #egetable!MM in all of them there is grace or the absence of grace. =nd ugliness and discord and inharmonious motion are nearly allied to ill ords and ill nature! as grace and harmony are the t in sisters of goodness and #irtue and bear their likeness. That is Nuite true! he said. &ut shall our superintendence go no further! and are the poets only to be reNuired by us to express the image of the good in their orks! on pain! if they do anything else! of expulsion from our )tateK 8r is the same control to be extended to other artists! and are they also to be prohibited from exhibiting the opposite forms of #ice and intemperance and meanness and indecency in sculpture and building and the other creati#e artsO and is he ho cannot conform to this rule of ours to be pre#ented from practising his art

in our )tate! lest the taste of our citi7ens be corrupted by himK We ould not ha#e our guardians gro up amid images of moral deformity! as in some noxious pasture! and there bro se and feed upon many a baneful herb and flo er day by day! little by little! until they silently gather a festering mass of corruption in their o n soul. <et our artists rather be those ho are gifted to discern the true nature of the beautiful and gracefulO then ill our youth d ell in a land of health! amid fair sights and sounds! and recei#e the good in e#erythingO and beauty! the effluence of fair orks! shall flo into the eye and ear! like a healthMgi#ing bree7e from a purer region! and insensibly dra the soul from earliest years into likeness and sympathy ith the beauty of reason. There can be no nobler training than that! he replied. =nd therefore! - said! Glaucon! musical training is a more potent instrument than any other! because rhythm and harmony find their ay into the in ard places of the soul! on hich they mightily fasten! imparting grace! and making the soul of him ho is rightly educated graceful! or of him ho is illMeducated ungracefulO and also because he ho has recei#ed this true education of the inner being ill most shre dly percei#e omissions or faults in art and nature! and ith a true taste! hile he praises and rejoices o#er and recei#es into his soul the good! and becomes noble and good! he ill justly blame and hate the bad! no in the days of his youth! e#en before he is able to kno the reason hyO and hen reason comes he ill recognise and salute the friend ith hom his education has made him long familiar. Les! he said! - Nuite agree ith you in thinking that our youth should be trained in music and on the grounds hich you mention. /ust as in learning to read! - said! e ere satisfied hen e kne the letters of the alphabet! hich are #ery fe ! in all their recurring si7es and combinationsO not slighting them as unimportant hether they occupy a space large or small! but e#ery here eager to make them outO and not thinking oursel#es perfect in the art of reading until e recognise them here#er they are foundA TrueMM

8r! as e recognise the reflection of letters in the ater! or in a mirror! only hen e kno the letters themsel#esO the same art and study gi#ing us the kno ledge of bothA ExactlyMM E#en so! as - maintain! neither e nor our guardians! hom e ha#e to educate! can e#er become musical until e and they kno the essential forms! in all their combinations! and can recognise them and their images here#er they are found! not slighting them either in small things or great! but belie#ing them all to be ithin the sphere of one art and study. ;ost assuredly. =nd hen a beautiful soul harmonises ith a beautiful form! and the t o are cast in one mould! that ill be the fairest of sights to him ho has an eye to see itK The fairest indeed. =nd the fairest is also the lo#eliestK That may be assumed. =nd the man ho has the spirit of harmony ill be most in lo#e ith the lo#eliestO but he ill not lo#e him ho is of an inharmonious soulK That is true! he replied! if the deficiency be in his soulO but if there be any merely bodily defect in another he ill be patient of it! and ill lo#e all the same. - percei#e! - said! that you ha#e or ha#e had experiences of this sort! and - agree. &ut let me ask you another NuestionA 'as excess of pleasure any affinity to temperanceK 'o can that beK he repliedO pleasure depri#es a man of the use of his faculties Nuite as much as pain.

8r any affinity to #irtue in generalK 9one hate#er. =ny affinity to antonness and intemperanceK Les! the greatest. =nd is there any greater or keener pleasure than that of sensual lo#eK 9o! nor a madder. Whereas true lo#e is a lo#e of beauty and orderMMtemperate and harmoniousK Puite true! he said. Then no intemperance or madness should be allo ed to approach true lo#eK (ertainly not. Then mad or intemperate pleasure must ne#er be allo ed to come near the lo#er and his belo#edO neither of them can ha#e any part in it if their lo#e is of the right sortK 9o! indeed! )ocrates! it must ne#er come near them. Then - suppose that in the city hich e are founding you ould make a la to the effect that a friend should use no other familiarity to his lo#e than a father ould use to his son! and then only for a noble purpose! and he must first ha#e the other.s consentO and this rule is to limit him in all his intercourse! and he is ne#er to be seen going further! or! if he exceeds! he is to be deemed guilty of coarseness and bad taste. - Nuite agree! he said. Thus much of music! hich makes a fair endingO for hat should be the end of music if not the lo#e of beautyK

- agree! he said. =fter music comes gymnastic! in hich our youth are next to be trained. (ertainly. Gymnastic as ell as music should begin in early yearsO the training in it should be careful and should continue through life. 9o my belief is!MMand this is a matter upon hich - should like to ha#e your opinion in confirmation of my o n! but my o n belief is!MM not that the good body by any bodily excellence impro#es the soul! but! on the contrary! that the good soul! by her o n excellence! impro#es the body as far as this may be possible. What do you sayK Les! - agree. Then! to the mind hen adeNuately trained! e shall be right in handing o#er the more particular care of the bodyO and in order to a#oid prolixity e ill no only gi#e the general outlines of the subject. %ery good. That they must abstain from intoxication has been already remarked by usO for of all persons a guardian should be the last to get drunk and not kno here in the orld he is. Les! he saidO that a guardian should reNuire another guardian to take care of him is ridiculous indeed. &ut next! hat shall e say of their foodO for the men are in training for the great contest of allMMare they notK Les! he said. =nd ill the habit of body of our ordinary athletes be suited to themK Why notK - am afraid! - said! that a habit of body such as they ha#e is

but a sleepy sort of thing! and rather perilous to health. "o you not obser#e that these athletes sleep a ay their li#es! and are liable to most dangerous illnesses if they depart! in e#er so slight a degree! from their customary regimenK Les! - do. Then! - said! a finer sort of training ill be reNuired for our arrior athletes! ho are to be like akeful dogs! and to see and hear ith the utmost keennessO amid the many changes of ater and also of food! of summer heat and inter cold! hich they ill ha#e to endure hen on a campaign! they must not be liable to break do n in health. That is my #ie . The really excellent gymnastic is t in sister of that simple music hich e ere just no describing. 'o soK Why! - concei#e that there is a gymnastic hich! like our music! is simple and goodO and especially the military gymnastic. What do you meanK ;y meaning may be learned from 'omerO he! you kno ! feeds his heroes at their feasts! hen they are campaigning! on soldiers. fareO they ha#e no fish! although they are on the shores of the 'ellespont! and they are not allo ed boiled meats but only roast! hich is the food most con#enient for soldiers! reNuiring only that they should light a fire! and not in#ol#ing the trouble of carrying about pots and pans. True. =nd - can hardly be mistaken in saying that s eet sauces are no here mentioned in 'omer. -n proscribing them! ho e#er! he is not singularO all professional athletes are ell a are that a man ho is to be in good condition should take nothing of the kind. Les! he saidO and kno ing this! they are Nuite right in not taking them.

Then you ould not appro#e of )yracusan dinners! and the refinements of )icilian cookeryK - think not. 9or! if a man is to be in condition! ould you allo him to ha#e a (orinthian girl as his fair friendK (ertainly not. 9either ould you appro#e of the delicacies! as they are thought! of =thenian confectioneryK (ertainly not. =ll such feeding and li#ing may be rightly compared by us to melody and song composed in the panharmonic style! and in all the rhythms. Exactly. There complexity engendered license! and here diseaseO hereas simplicity in music as the parent of temperance in the soulO and simplicity in gymnastic of health in the body. ;ost true! he said. &ut hen intemperance and disease multiply in a )tate! halls of justice and medicine are al ays being openedO and the arts of the doctor and the la yer gi#e themsel#es airs! finding ho keen is the interest hich not only the sla#es but the freemen of a city take about them. 8f course. =nd yet hat greater proof can there be of a bad and disgraceful state of education than this! that not only artisans and the meaner sort of people need the skill of firstMrate physicians and judges! but also those ho ould profess to ha#e had a liberal educationK -s it not disgraceful! and a great sign of ant of goodMbreeding! that a man should ha#e to go abroad for his la and physic because he has none of his o n at home! and must therefore surrender

himself into the hands of other men hom he makes lords and judges o#er himK 8f all things! he said! the most disgraceful. Would you say Tmost!. - replied! hen you consider that there is a further stage of the e#il in hich a man is not only a lifeMlong litigant! passing all his days in the courts! either as plaintiff or defendant! but is actually led by his bad taste to pride himself on his litigiousnessO he imagines that he is a master in dishonestyO able to take e#ery crooked turn! and riggle into and out of e#ery hole! bending like a ithy and getting out of the ay of justiceA and all for hatKMMin order to gain small points not orth mentioning! he not kno ing that so to order his life as to be able to do ithout a napping judge is a far higher and nobler sort of thing. -s not that still more disgracefulK Les! he said! that is still more disgraceful. Well! - said! and to reNuire the help of medicine! not hen a ound has to be cured! or on occasion of an epidemic! but just because! by indolence and a habit of life such as e ha#e been describing! men fill themsel#es ith aters and inds! as if their bodies ere a marsh! compelling the ingenious sons of =sclepius to find more names for diseases! such as flatulence and catarrhO is not this! too! a disgraceK Les! he said! they do certainly gi#e #ery strange and ne fangled names to diseases. Les! - said! and - do not belie#e that there ere any such diseases in the days of =sclepiusO and this - infer from the circumstance that the hero Eurypylus! after he has been ounded in 'omer! drinks a posset of Pramnian ine ell besprinkled ith barleyMmeal and grated cheese! hich are certainly inflammatory! and yet the sons of =sclepius ho ere at the Trojan ar do not blame the damsel ho gi#es him the drink! or rebuke Patroclus! ho is treating his case. Well! he said! that as surely an extraordinary drink to be gi#en

to a person in his condition. 9ot so extraordinary! - replied! if you bear in mind that in former days! as is commonly said! before the time of 'erodicus! the guild of =sclepius did not practise our present system of medicine! hich may be said to educate diseases. &ut 'erodicus! being a trainer! and himself of a sickly constitution! by a combination of training and doctoring found out a ay of torturing first and chiefly himself! and secondly the rest of the orld. 'o as thatK he said.

&y the in#ention of lingering deathO for he had a mortal disease hich he perpetually tended! and as reco#ery as out of the Nuestion! he passed his entire life as a #aletudinarianO he could do nothing but attend upon himself! and he as in constant torment hene#er he departed in anything from his usual regimen! and so dying hard! by the help of science he struggled on to old age. = rare re ard of his skillD Les! - saidO a re ard hich a man might fairly expect ho ne#er understood that! if =sclepius did not instruct his descendants in #aletudinarian arts! the omission arose! not from ignorance or inexperience of such a branch of medicine! but because he kne that in all ellMordered states e#ery indi#idual has an occupation to hich he must attend! and has therefore no leisure to spend in continually being ill. This e remark in the case of the artisan! but! ludicrously enough! do not apply the same rule to people of the richer sort. 'o do you meanK he said. - mean thisA When a carpenter is ill he asks the physician for a rough and ready cureO an emetic or a purge or a cautery or the knife!MM these are his remedies. =nd if some one prescribes for him a course of dietetics! and tells him that he must s athe and s addle his head! and all that sort of thing! he replies at once that he has no time to be ill! and that he sees no good in a life hich is spent in nursing his disease to the neglect of his customary employmentO and therefore bidding goodMbye to this sort of physician! he resumes

his ordinary habits! and either gets ell and li#es and does his business! or! if his constitution falls! he dies and has no more trouble. Les! he said! and a man in his condition of life ought to use the art of medicine thus far only. 'as he not! - said! an occupationO and hat profit ould there be in his life if he ere depri#ed of his occupationK Puite true! he said. &ut ith the rich man this is other iseO of him e do not say that he has any specially appointed ork hich he must perform! if he ould li#e. 'e is generally supposed to ha#e nothing to do. Then you ne#er heard of the saying of Phocylides! that as soon as a man has a li#elihood he should practise #irtueK 9ay! he said! - think that he had better begin some hat sooner. <et us not ha#e a dispute ith him about this! - saidO but rather ask oursel#esA -s the practice of #irtue obligatory on the rich man! or can he li#e ithout itK =nd if obligatory on him! then let us raise a further Nuestion! hether this dieting of disorders hich is an impediment to the application of the mind t in carpentering and the mechanical arts! does not eNually stand in the ay of the sentiment of PhocylidesK 8f that! he replied! there can be no doubtO such excessi#e care of the body! hen carried beyond the rules of gymnastic! is most inimical to the practice of #irtue. Les! indeed! - replied! and eNually incompatible ith the management of a house! an army! or an office of stateO and! hat is most important of all! irreconcilable ith any kind of study or thought or selfMreflectionMMthere is a constant suspicion that headache and giddiness are to be ascribed to philosophy! and hence all practising or making trial of #irtue in the higher

sense is absolutely stoppedO for a man is al ays fancying that he is being made ill! and is in constant anxiety about the state of his body. Les! likely enough. =nd therefore our politic =sclepius may be supposed to ha#e exhibited the po er of his art only to persons ho! being generally of healthy constitution and habits of life! had a definite ailmentO such as these he cured by purges and operations! and bade them li#e as usual! herein consulting the interests of the )tateO but bodies hich disease had penetrated through and through he ould not ha#e attempted to cure by gradual processes of e#acuation and infusionA he did not ant to lengthen out goodMforMnothing li#es! or to ha#e eak fathers begetting eaker sonsOMMif a man as not able to li#e in the ordinary ay he had no business to cure himO for such a cure ould ha#e been of no use either to himself! or to the )tate. Then! he said! you regard =sclepius as a statesman. (learlyO and his character is further illustrated by his sons. 9ote that they ere heroes in the days of old and practised the medicines of hich - am speaking at the siege of TroyA Lou ill remember ho ! hen Pandarus ounded ;enelaus! they )ucked the blood out of the ound! and sprinkled soothing remedies! but they ne#er prescribed hat the patient as after ards to eat or drink in the case of ;enelaus! any more than in the case of EurypylusO the remedies! as they concei#ed! ere enough to heal any man ho before he as ounded as healthy and regular in habitsO and e#en though he did happen to drink a posset of Pramnian ine! he might get ell all the same. &ut they ould ha#e nothing to do ith unhealthy and intemperate subjects! hose li#es ere of no use either to themsel#es or othersO the art of medicine as not designed for their good! and though they ere as rich as ;idas! the sons of =sclepius ould ha#e declined to attend them. They ere #ery acute persons! those sons of =sclepius.

9aturally so! - replied. 9e#ertheless! the tragedians and Pindar disobeying our behests! although they ackno ledge that =sclepius as the son of =pollo! say also that he as bribed into healing a rich man ho as at the point of death! and for this reason he as struck by lightning. &ut e! in accordance ith the principle already affirmed by us! ill not belie#e them hen they tell us bothOMM if he as the son of a god! e maintain that hd as not a#ariciousO or! if he as a#aricious he as not the son of a god. =ll that! )ocrates! is excellentO but - should like to put a Nuestion to youA 8ught there not to be good physicians in a )tate! and are not the best those ho ha#e treated the greatest number of constitutions good and badK and are not the best judges in like manner those ho are acNuainted ith all sorts of moral naturesK Les! - said! - too ould ha#e good judges and good physicians. &ut do you kno hom - think goodK Will you tell meK - ill! if - can. <et me ho e#er note that in the same Nuestion you join t o things hich are not the same. 'o soK he asked. Why! - said! you join physicians and judges. 9o the most skilful physicians are those ho! from their youth up ards! ha#e combined ith the kno ledge of their art the greatest experience of diseaseO they had better not be robust in health! and should ha#e had all manner of diseases in their o n persons. $or the body! as - concei#e! is not the instrument ith hich they cure the bodyO in that case e could not allo them e#er to be or to ha#e been sicklyO but they cure the body ith the mind! and the mind hich has become and is sick can cure nothing. That is #ery true! he said. &ut ith the judge it is other iseO since he go#erns mind by mindO he ought not therefore to ha#e been trained among #icious minds! and to ha#e associated ith them from youth up ards! and to ha#e

gone through the hole calendar of crime! only in order that he may Nuickly infer the crimes of others as he might their bodily diseases from his o n selfMconsciousnessO the honourable mind hich is to form a healthy judgment should ha#e had no experience or contamination of e#il habits hen young. =nd this is the reason hy in youth good men often appear to be simple! and are easily practised upon by the dishonest! because they ha#e no examples of hat e#il is in their o n souls. Les! he said! they are far too apt to be decei#ed. Therefore! - said! the judge should not be youngO he should ha#e learned to kno e#il! not from his o n soul! but from late and long obser#ation of the nature of e#il in othersA kno ledge should be his guide! not personal experience. Les! he said! that is the ideal of a judge. Les! - replied! and he ill be a good man > hich is my ans er to your Nuestion?O for he is good ho has a good soul. &ut the cunning and suspicious nature of hich e spoke!MMhe ho has committed many crimes! and fancies himself to be a master in ickedness! hen he is amongst his fello s! is onderful in the precautions hich he takes! because he judges of them by himselfA but hen he gets into the company of men of #irtue! ho ha#e the experience of age! he appears to be a fool again! o ing to his unseasonable suspicionsO he cannot recognise an honest man! because he has no pattern of honesty in himselfO at the same time! as the bad are more numerous than the good! and he meets ith them oftener! he thinks himself! and is by others thought to be! rather ise than foolish. ;ost true! he said. Then the good and ise judge hom e are seeking is not this man! but the otherO for #ice cannot kno #irtue too! but a #irtuous nature! educated by time! ill acNuire a kno ledge both of #irtue and #iceA the #irtuous! and not the #icious! man has isdomMMin my opinion. =nd in mine also.

This is the sort of medicine! and this is the sort of la ! hich you sanction in your )tate. They ill minister to better natures! gi#ing health both of soul and of bodyO but those ho are diseased in their bodies they ill lea#e to die! and the corrupt and incurable souls they ill put an end to themsel#es. That is clearly the best thing both for the patients and for the )tate. =nd thus our youth! ha#ing been educated only in that simple music hich! as e said! inspires temperance! ill be reluctant to go to la . (learly. =nd the musician! ho! keeping to the same track! is content to practise the simple gymnastic! ill ha#e nothing to do ith medicine unless in some extreme case. That - Nuite belie#e. The #ery exercises and tolls hich he undergoes are intended to stimulate the spirited element of his nature! and not to increase his strengthO he ill not! like common athletes! use exercise and regimen to de#elop his muscles. %ery right! he said. 9either are the t o arts of music and gymnastic really designed! as is often supposed! the one for the training of the soul! the other fir the training of the body. What then is the real object of themK - belie#e! - said! that the teachers of both ha#e in #ie chiefly the impro#ement of the soul. 'o can that beK he asked. "id you ne#er obser#e! - said! the effect on the mind itself of exclusi#e de#otion to gymnastic! or the opposite effect of an exclusi#e de#otion to musicK

-n hat ay sho nK he said. The one producing a temper of hardness and ferocity! the other of softness and effeminacy! - replied. Les! he said! - am Nuite a are that the mere athlete becomes too much of a sa#age! and that the mere musician is melted and softened beyond hat is good for him. Let surely! - said! this ferocity only comes from spirit! hich! if rightly educated! ould gi#e courage! but! if too much intensified! is liable to become hard and brutal. That - Nuite think. 8n the other hand the philosopher ill ha#e the Nuality of gentleness. =nd this also! hen too much indulged! ill turn to softness! but! if educated rightly! ill be gentle and moderate. True. =nd in our opinion the guardians ought to ha#e both these NualitiesK =ssuredly. =nd both should be in harmonyK &eyond Nuestion. =nd the harmonious soul is both temperate and courageousK Les. =nd the inharmonious is co ardly and boorishK %ery true. =nd! hen a man allo s music to play upon him and to pour into his soul through the funnel of his ears those s eet and

soft and melancholy airs of hich e ere just no speaking! and his hole life is passed in arbling and the delights of songO in the first stage of the process the passion or spirit hich is in him is tempered like iron! and made useful! instead of brittle and useless. &ut! if he carries on the softening and soothing process! in the next stage he begins to melt and aste! until he has asted a ay his spirit and cut out the sine s of his soulO and he becomes a feeble arrior. %ery true. -f the element of spirit is naturally eak in him the change is speedily accomplished! but if he ha#e a good deal! then the po er of music eakening the spirit renders him excitableOMMon the least pro#ocation he flames up at once! and is speedily extinguishedO instead of ha#ing spirit he gro s irritable and passionate and is Nuite impracticable. Exactly. =nd so in gymnastics! if a man takes #iolent exercise and is a great feeder! and the re#erse of a great student of music and philosophy! at first the high condition of his body fills him ith pride and spirit! and lie becomes t ice the man that he as. (ertainly. =nd hat happensK if he do nothing else! and holds no conMa #erse ith the ;uses! does not e#en that intelligence hich there may be in him! ha#ing no taste of any sort of learning or enNuiry or thought or culture! gro feeble and dull and blind! his mind ne#er aking up or recei#ing nourishment! and his senses not being purged of their mistsK True! he said. =nd he ends by becoming a hater of philosophy! unci#ili7ed! ne#er using the eapon of persuasion!MMhe is like a ild beast! all #iolence and fierceness! and kno s no other ay of dealingO and he li#es in all ignorance and e#il conditions! and has no sense of propriety and grace.

That is Nuite true! he said. =nd as there are t o principles of human nature! one the spirited and the other the philosophical! some God! as - should say! has gi#en mankind t o arts ans ering to them >and only indirectly to the soul and body?! in order that these t o principles >like the strings of an instrument? may be relaxed or dra n tighter until they are duly harmonised. That appears to be the intention. =nd he ho mingles music ith gymnastic in the fairest proportions! and best attempers them to the soul! may be rightly called the true musician and harmonist in a far higher sense than the tuner of the strings. Lou are Nuite right! )ocrates. =nd such a presiding genius ill be al ays reNuired in our )tate if the go#ernment is to last. Les! he ill be absolutely necessary. )uch! then! are our principles of nurture and educationA Where ould be the use of going into further details about the dances of our citi7ens! or about their hunting and coursing! their gymnastic and eNuestrian contestsK $or these all follo the general principle! and ha#ing found that! e shall ha#e no difficulty in disco#ering them. - dare say that there ill be no difficulty. %ery good! - saidO then hat is the next NuestionK ;ust e not ask ho are to be rulers and ho subjectsK (ertainly. There can be no doubt that the elder must rule the younger. (learly.

=nd that the best of these must rule. That is also clear. 9o ! are not the best husbandmen those ho are most de#oted to husbandryK Les. =nd as e are to ha#e the best of guardians for our city! must they not be those ho ha#e most the character of guardiansK Les. =nd to this end they ought to be ise and efficient! and to ha#e a special care of the )tateK True. =nd a man ill be most likely to care about that hich he lo#esK To be sure. =nd he ill be most likely to lo#e that hich he regards as ha#ing the same interests ith himself! and that of hich the good or e#il fortune is supposed by him at any time most to affect his o nK %ery true! he replied. Then there must be a selection. <et us note among the guardians those ho in their hole life sho the greatest eagerness to do hat is for the good of their country! and the greatest repugnance to do hat is against her interests. Those are the right men. =nd they ill ha#e to be atched at e#ery age! in order that e may see hether they preser#e their resolution! and ne#er! under the influence either of force or enchantment! forget or cast

off their sense of duty to the )tate. 'o cast offK he said. - ill explain to you! - replied. = resolution may go out of a man.s mind either ith his ill or against his illO ith his ill hen he gets rid of a falsehood and learns better! against his ill hene#er he is depri#ed of a truth. - understand! he said! the illing loss of a resolutionO the meaning of the un illing - ha#e yet to learn. Why! - said! do you not see that men are un illingly depri#ed of good! and illingly of e#ilK -s not to ha#e lost the truth an e#il! and to possess the truth a goodK and you ould agree that to concei#e things as they are is to possess the truthK Les! he repliedO - agree ith you in thinking that mankind are depri#ed of truth against their ill. =nd is not this in#oluntary depri#ation caused either by theft! or force! or enchantmentK )till! he replied! - do not understand you. - fear that - must ha#e been talking darkly! like the tragedians. - only mean that some men are changed by persuasion and that others forgetO argument steals a ay the hearts of one class! and time of the otherO and this - call theft. 9o you understand meK Les. Those again ho are forced are those hom the #iolence of some pain or grief compels to change their opinion. - understand! he said! and you are Nuite right. =nd you ould also ackno ledge that the enchanted are those ho change their minds either under the softer influence of pleasure! or the sterner influence of fearK

Les! he saidO e#erything that decei#es may be said to enchant. Therefore! as - as just no saying! e must enNuire ho are the best guardians of their o n con#iction that hat they think the interest of the )tate is to be the rule of their li#es. We must atch them from their youth up ards! and make them perform actions in hich they are most likely to forget or to be decei#ed! and he ho remembers and is not decei#ed is to be selected! and he ho falls in the trial is to be rejected. That ill be the ayK Les. =nd there should also be toils and pains and conflicts prescribed for them! in hich they ill be made to gi#e further proof of the same Nualities. %ery right! he replied. =nd then! - said! e must try them ith enchantments that is the third sort of testMMand see hat ill be their beha#iourA like those ho take colts amid noise and tumult to see if they are of a timid nature! so must e take our youth amid terrors of some kind! and again pass them into pleasures! and pro#e them more thoroughly than gold is pro#ed in the furnace! that e may disco#er hether they are armed against all enchantments! and of a noble bearing al ays! good guardians of themsel#es and of the music hich they ha#e learned! and retaining under all circumstances a rhythmical and harmonious nature! such as ill be most ser#iceable to the indi#idual and to the )tate. =nd he ho at e#ery age! as boy and youth and in mature life! has come out of the trial #ictorious and pure! shall be appointed a ruler and guardian of the )tateO he shall be honoured in life and death! and shall recei#e sepulture and other memorials of honour! the greatest that e ha#e to gi#e. &ut him ho fails! e must reject. - am inclined to think that this is the sort of ay in hich our rulers and guardians should be chosen and appointed. - speak generally! and not ith any pretension to exactness. =nd! speaking generally! - agree ith you! he said.

=nd perhaps the ord Tguardian. in the fullest sense ought to be applied to this higher class only ho preser#e us against foreign enemies and maintain peace among our citi7ens at home! that the one may not ha#e the ill! or the others the po er! to harm us. The young men hom e before called guardians may be more properly designated auxiliaries and supporters of the principles of the rulers. - agree ith you! he said. 'o then may e de#ise one of those needful falsehoods of hich e lately spokeMMjust one royal lie hich may decei#e the rulers! if that be possible! and at any rate the rest of the cityK What sort of lieK he said. 9othing ne ! - repliedO only an old Phoenician tale of hat has often occurred before no in other places! >as the poets say! and ha#e made the orld belie#e!? though not in our time! and - do not kno hether such an e#ent could e#er happen again! or could no e#en be made probable! if it did. 'o your ords seem to hesitate on your lipsD Lou ill not onder! - replied! at my hesitation hen you ha#e heard. )peak! he said! and fear not. Well then! - ill speak! although - really kno not ho to look you in the face! or in hat ords to utter the audacious fiction! hich - propose to communicate gradually! first to the rulers! then to the soldiers! and lastly to the people. They are to be told that their youth as a dream! and the education and training hich they recei#ed from us! an appearance onlyO in reality during all that time they ere being formed and fed in the omb of the earth! here they themsel#es and their arms and appurtenances ere manufacturedO hen they ere completed! the earth! their mother! sent them upO and so! their country being their mother and also their nurse! they are bound to ad#ise for her good! and to defend her against attacks!

and her citi7ens they are to regard as children of the earth and their o n brothers. Lou had good reason! he said! to be ashamed of the lie hich you ere going to tell. True! - replied! but there is more comingO - ha#e only told you half. (iti7ens! e shall say to them in our tale! you are brothers! yet God has framed you differently. )ome of you ha#e the po er of command! and in the composition of these he has mingled gold! herefore also they ha#e the greatest honourO others he has made of sil#er! to be auxillariesO others again ho are to be husbandmen and craftsmen he has composed of brass and ironO and the species ill generally be preser#ed in the children. &ut as all are of the same original stock! a golden parent ill sometimes ha#e a sil#er son! or a sil#er parent a golden son. =nd God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers! and abo#e all else! that there is nothing hich should so anxiously guard! or of hich they are to be such good guardians! as of the purity of the race. They should obser#e hat elements mingle in their off springO for if the son of a golden or sil#er parent has an admixture of brass and iron! then nature orders a transposition of ranks! and the eye of the ruler must not be pitiful to ards the child because he has to descend in the scale and become a husbandman or artisan! just as there may be sons of artisans ho ha#ing an admixture of gold or sil#er in them are raised to honour! and become guardians or auxiliaries. $or an oracle says that hen a man of brass or iron guards the )tate! it ill be destroyed. )uch is the taleO is there any possibility of making our citi7ens belie#e in itK 9ot in the present generation! he repliedO there is no ay of accomplishing thisO but their sons may be made to belie#e in the tale! and their sons. sons! and posterity after them. - see the difficulty! - repliedO yet the fostering of such a belief ill make them care more for the city and for one another. Enough! ho e#er! of the fiction! hich may no fly abroad upon the ings of rumour! hile e arm our earthMborn heroes! and lead them forth under the command of their rulers. <et them look round

and select a spot hence they can best suppress insurrection! if any pro#e refractory ithin! and also defend themsel#es against enemies! ho like ol#es may come do n on the fold from ithoutO there let them encamp! and hen they ha#e encamped! let them sacrifice to the proper Gods and prepare their d ellings. /ust so! he said. =nd their d ellings must be such as ill shield them against the cold of inter and the heat of summer. - suppose that you mean houses! he replied. Les! - saidO but they must be the houses of soldiers! and not of shopMkeepers. What is the differenceK he said. That - ill endea#our to explain! - replied. To keep atchdogs! ho! from ant of discipline or hunger! or some e#il habit! or e#il habit or other! ould turn upon the sheep and orry them! and beha#e not like dogs but ol#es! ould be a foul and monstrous thing in a shepherdK Truly monstrous! he said. =nd therefore e#ery care must be taken that our auxiliaries! being stronger than our citi7ens! may not gro to be too much for them and become sa#age tyrants instead of friends and alliesK Les! great care should be taken. =nd ould not a really good education furnish the best safeguardK &ut they are ellMeducated already! he replied. - cannot be so confident! my dear Glaucon! - saidO - am much certain that they ought to be! and that true education! hate#er that may be! ill ha#e the greatest tendency to ci#ili7e and humani7e them in their relations to one another! and to those ho are under

their protection. %ery true! he replied. =nd not only their education! but their habitations! and all that belongs to them! should be such as ill neither impair their #irtue as guardians! nor tempt them to prey upon the other citi7ens. =ny man of sense must ackno ledge that. 'e must. Then let us consider hat ill be their ay of life! if they are to reali7e our idea of them. -n the first place! none of them should ha#e any property of his o n beyond hat is absolutely necessaryO neither should they ha#e a pri#ate house or store closed against any one ho has a mind to enterO their pro#isions should be only such as are reNuired by trained arriors! ho are men of temperance and courageO they should agree to recei#e from the citi7ens a fixed rate of pay! enough to meet the expenses of the year and no moreO and they ill go and li#e together like soldiers in a camp. Gold and sil#er e ill tell them that they ha#e from GodO the di#iner metal is ithin them! and they ha#e therefore no need of the dross hich is current among men! and ought not to pollute the di#ine by any such earthly admixtureO for that commoner metal has been the source of many unholy deeds! but their o n is undefiled. =nd they alone of all the citi7ens may not touch or handle sil#er or gold! or be under the same roof ith them! or ear them! or drink from them. =nd this ill be their sal#ation! and they ill be the sa#iours of the )tate. &ut should they e#er acNuire homes or lands or moneys of their o n! they ill become housekeepers and husbandmen instead of guardians! enemies and tyrants instead of allies of the other citi7ensO hating and being hated! plotting and being plotted against! they ill pass their hole life in much greater terror of internal than of external enemies! and the hour of ruin! both to themsel#es and to the rest of the )tate! ill be at hand. $or all hich reasons may e not say that thus shall our )tate be ordered! and that these shall be the regulations appointed by us for guardians concerning their houses and all other mattersK other

Les! said Glaucon.

&88Q -% ="E-;=9T:) M )8(R=TE) 'ERE =deimantus interposed a NuestionA 'o ould you ans er! )ocrates! said he! if a person ere to say that you are making these people miserable! and that they are the cause of their o n unhappinessO the city in fact belongs to them! but they are none the better for itO hereas other men acNuire lands! and build large and handsome houses! and ha#e e#erything handsome about them! offering sacrifices to the gods on their o n account! and practising hospitalityO moreo#er! as you ere saying just no ! they ha#e gold and sil#er! and all that is usual among the fa#ourites of fortuneO but our poor citi7ens are no better than mercenaries ho are Nuartered in the city and are al ays mounting guardK Les! - saidO and you may add that they are only fed! and not paid in addition to their food! like other menO and therefore they cannot! if they ould! take a journey of pleasureO they ha#e no money to spend on a mistress or any other luxurious fancy! hich! as the orld goes! is thought to be happinessO and many other accusations of the same nature might be added. &ut! said he! let us suppose all this to be included in the charge. Lou mean to ask! - said! hat ill be our ans erK Les. -f e proceed along the old path! my belief! - said! is that e shall find the ans er. =nd our ans er ill be that! e#en as they are! our guardians may #ery likely be the happiest of menO but that our aim in founding the )tate as not the disproportionate happiness of any one class! but the greatest happiness of the holeO

e thought that in a )tate hich is ordered ith a #ie to the good of the hole e should be most likely to find /ustice! and in the illMordered )tate injusticeA and! ha#ing found them! e might then decide hich of the t o is the happier. =t present! - take it! e are fashioning the happy )tate! not piecemeal! or ith a #ie of making a fe happy citi7ens! but as a holeO and byMandMby e ill proceed to #ie the opposite kind of )tate. )uppose that e ere painting a statue! and some one came up to us and said! Why do you not put the most beautiful colours on the most beautiful parts of the bodyMMthe eyes ought to be purple! but you ha#e made them blackMMto him e might fairly ans er! )ir! you ould not surely ha#e us beautify the eyes to such a degree that they are no longer eyesO consider rather hether! by gi#ing this and the other features their due proportion! e make the hole beautiful. =nd so - say to you! do not compel us to assign to the guardians a sort of happiness hich ill make them anything but guardiansO for e too can clothe our husbandmen in royal apparel! and set cro ns of gold on their heads! and bid them till the ground as much as they like! and no more. 8ur potters also might be allo ed to repose on couches! and feast by the fireside! passing round the inecup! hile their heel is con#eniently at hand! and orking at pottery only as much as they likeO in this ay e might make e#ery class happyMand then! as you imagine! the hole )tate ould be happy. &ut do not put this idea into our headsO for! if e listen to you! the husbandman ill be no longer a husbandman! the potter ill cease to be a potter! and no one ill ha#e the character of any distinct class in the )tate. 9o this is not of much conseNuence here the corruption of society! and pretension to be hat you are not! is confined to cobblersO but hen the guardians of the la s and of the go#ernment are only seemingly and not real guardians! then see ho they turn the )tate upside do nO and on the other hand they alone ha#e the po er of gi#ing order and happiness to the )tate. We mean our guardians to be true sa#iours and not the destroyers of the )tate! hereas our opponent is thinking of peasants at a festi#al! ho are enjoying a life of re#elry! not of citi7ens ho are doing their duty to the )tate. &ut! if so! e mean different things! and he is speaking of something hich is not a )tate. =nd therefore e must consider hether in appointing our guardians e ould look to their greatest happiness indi#idually! or hether this principle of happiness does not rather reside in the )tate as a hole.

&ut the latter be the truth! then the guardians and auxillaries! and all others eNually ith them! must be compelled or induced to do their o n ork in the best ay. =nd thus the hole )tate ill gro up in a noble order! and the se#eral classes ill recei#e the proportion of happiness hich nature assigns to them. - think that you are Nuite right. - onder hether you ill agree ith another remark hich occurs to me. What may that beK There seem to be t o causes of the deterioration of the arts. What are theyK Wealth! - said! and po#erty. 'o do they actK The process is as follo sA When a potter becomes rich! ill he! think you! any longer take the same pains ith his artK (ertainly not. 'e ill gro more and more indolent and carelessK %ery true. =nd the result ill be that he becomes a orse potterK LesO he greatly deteriorates. &ut! on the other hand! if he has no money! and cannot pro#ide himself tools or instruments! he ill not ork eNually ell himself! nor ill he teach his sons or apprentices to ork eNually ell. (ertainly not.

Then! under the influence either of po#erty or of ealth! orkmen and their ork are eNually liable to degenerateK That is e#ident. 'ere! then! is a disco#ery of ne e#ils! - said! against hich the guardians ill ha#e to atch! or they ill creep into the city unobser#ed. What e#ilsK Wealth! - said! and po#ertyO the one is the parent of luxury and indolence! and the other of meanness and #iciousness! and both of discontent. That is #ery true! he repliedO but still - should like to kno ! )ocrates! ho our city ill be able to go to ar! especially against an enemy ho is rich and po erful! if depri#ed of the sine s of ar. There ould certainly be a difficulty! - replied! in going to ar ith one such enemyO but there is no difficulty here there are t o of them. 'o soK he asked. -n the first place! - said! if e ha#e to fight! our side ill be trained arriors fighting against an army of rich men. That is true! he said. =nd do you not suppose! =deimantus! that a single boxer ho as perfect in his art ould easily be a match for t o stout and ellMtoMdo gentlemen ho ere not boxersK 'ardly! if they came upon him at once. What! not! - said! if he ere able to run a ay and then turn and strike at the one ho first came upK =nd supposing he ere to do this se#eral times under the heat of a scorching sun! might he not! being an expert! o#erturn more than one stout personageK

(ertainly! he said! there ould be nothing onderful in that. =nd yet rich men probably ha#e a greater superiority in the science and practice of boxing than they ha#e in military Nualities. <ikely enough. Then e may assume that our athletes ill be able to fight ith t o or three times their o n numberK - agree ith you! for - think you right. =nd suppose that! before engaging! our citi7ens send an embassy to one of the t o cities! telling them hat is the truthA )il#er and gold e neither ha#e nor are permitted to ha#e! but you mayO do you therefore come and help us in ar! of and take the spoils of the other cityA Who! on hearing these ords! ould choose to fight against lean iry dogs! rather th than! ith the dogs on their side! against fat and tender sheepK That is not likelyO and yet there might be a danger to the poor )tate if the ealth of many )tates ere to be gathered into one. &ut ho simple of you to use the term )tate at all of any but our o nD Why soK Lou ought to speak of other )tates in the plural numberO not one of them is a city! but many cities! as they say in the game. $or indeed any city! ho e#er small! is in fact di#ided into t o! one the city of the poor! the other of the richO these are at ar ith one anotherO and in either there are many smaller di#isions! and you ould be altogether beside the mark if you treated them all as a single )tate. &ut if you deal ith them as many! and gi#e the ealth or po er or persons of the one to the others! you ill al ays ha#e a great many friends and not many enemies. =nd your )tate! hile the ise order hich has no been prescribed continues to pre#ail in her! ill be the greatest of )tates! - do not mean to say in reputation or appearance! but in deed

and truth! though she number not more than a thousand defenders. = single )tate hich is her eNual you ill hardly find! either among 'ellenes or barbarians! though many that appear to be as great and many times greater. That is most true! he said. =nd hat! - said! ill be the best limit for our rulers to fix hen they are considering the si7e of the )tate and the amount of territory hich they are to include! and beyond hich they ill not goK What limit ould you proposeK - ould allo the )tate to increase so far as is consistent ith unityO that! - think! is the proper limit. %ery good! he said. 'ere then! - said! is another order hich ill ha#e to be con#eyed to our guardiansA <et our city be accounted neither large nor small! but one and selfMsufficing. =nd surely! said he! this is not a #ery se#ere order hich e impose upon them. =nd the other! said -! of hich e ere speaking before is lighter still! M- mean the duty of degrading the offspring of the guardians hen inferior! and of ele#ating into the rank of guardians the offspring of the lo er classes! hen naturally superior. The intention as! that! in the case of the citi7ens generally! each indi#idual should be put to the use for hich nature hich nature intended him! one to one ork! and then e#ery man ould do his o n business! and be one and not manyO and so the hole city ould be one and not many. Les! he saidO that is not so difficult. The regulations hich e are prescribing! my good =deimantus! are not! as might be supposed! a number of great principles! but trifles all! if care be taken! as the saying is! of the one great thing!MM

a thing! ho e#er! hich - ould rather call! not great! but sufficient for our purpose. What may that beK he asked. Education! - said! and nurtureA -f our citi7ens are ell educated! and gro into sensible men! they ill easily see their ay through all these! as ell as other matters hich - omitO such! for example! as marriage! the possession of omen and the procreation of children! hich ill all follo the general principle that friends ha#e all things in common! as the pro#erb says. That ill be the best ay of settling them. =lso! - said! the )tate! if once started ell! mo#es ith accumulating force like a heel. $or good nurture and education implant good constitutions! and these good constitutions taking root in a good education impro#e more and more! and this impro#ement affects the breed in man as in other animals. %ery possibly! he said. Then to sum upA This is the point to hich! abo#e all! the attention of our rulers should be directed!MMthat music and gymnastic be preser#ed in their original form! and no inno#ation made. They must do their utmost to maintain them intact. =nd hen any one says that mankind most regard The ne est song hich the singers ha#e! they ill be afraid that he may be praising! not ne songs! but a ne kind of songO and this ought not to be praised! or concei#ed to be the meaning of the poetO for any musical inno#ation is full of danger to the hole )tate! and ought to be prohibited. )o "amon tells me! and - can Nuite belie#e himOMhe says that hen modes of music change! of the )tate al ays change ith them. Les! said =deimantusO and you may add my suffrage to "amon.s and your o n.

Then! - said! our guardians must lay the foundations of their fortress in musicK Les! he saidO the la lessness of hich you speak too easily steals in. Les! - replied! in the form of amusementO and at first sight it appears harmless. Why! yes! he said! and there is no harmO ere it not that little by little this spirit of licence! finding a home! imperceptibly penetrates into manners and customsO hence! issuing ith greater force! it in#ades contracts bet een man and man! and from contracts goes on to la s and constitutions! in utter recklessness! ending at last! )ocrates! by an o#erthro of all rights! pri#ate as ell as public. -s that trueK - said. That is my belief! he replied. Then! as - as saying! our youth should be trained from the first in a stricter system! for if amusements become la less! and the youths themsel#es become la less! they can ne#er gro up into ellMconducted and #irtuous citi7ens. %ery true! he said. =nd hen they ha#e made a good beginning in play! and by the help of music ha#e gained the habit of good order! then this habit of order! in a manner ho unlike the la less play of the othersD ill accompany them in all their actions and be a principle of gro th to them! and if there be any fallen places a principle in the )tate ill raise them up again. %ery true! he said. Thus educated! they ill in#ent for themsel#es any lesser rules hich their predecessors ha#e altogether neglected. What do you meanK

- mean such things as theseAMM hen the young are to be silent before their eldersO ho they are to sho respect to them by standing and making them sitO hat honour is due to parentsO hat garments or shoes are to be ornO the mode of dressing the hairO deportment and manners in general. Lou ould agree ith meK Les. &ut there is! - think! small isdom in legislating about such matters!MM - doubt if it is e#er doneO nor are any precise ritten enactments about them likely to be lasting. -mpossible. -t ould seem! =deimantus! that the direction in hich education starts a man! ill determine his future life. "oes not like al ays attract likeK To be sure. :ntil some one rare and grand result is reached hich may be good! and may be the re#erse of goodK That is not to be denied. =nd for this reason! - said! - shall not attempt to legislate further about them. 9aturally enough! he replied. Well! and about the business of the agora! dealings and the ordinary dealings bet een man and man! or again about agreements ith the commencement ith artisansO about insult and injury! of the commencement of actions! and the appointment of juries! hat ould you sayK there may also arise Nuestions about any impositions and extractions of market and harbour dues hich may be reNuired! and in general about the regulations of markets! police! harbours! and the like. &ut! oh hea#ensD shall e condescend to legislate on any of these particularsK

- think! he said! that there is no need to impose la s about them on good menO hat regulations are necessary they ill find out soon enough for themsel#es. Les! - said! my friend! if God ill only preser#e to them the la s hich e ha#e gi#en them. =nd ithout di#ine help! said =deimantus! they ill go on for e#er making and mending their la s and their li#es in the hope of attaining perfection. Lou ould compare them! - said! to those in#alids ho! ha#ing no selfMrestraint! ill not lea#e off their habits of intemperanceK Exactly. Les! - saidO and hat a delightful life they leadD they are al ays doctoring and increasing and complicating their disorders! and al ays fancying that they ill be cured by any nostrum hich anybody ad#ises them to try. )uch cases are #ery common! he said! ith in#alids of this sort. Les! - repliedO and the charming thing is that they deem him their orst enemy ho tells them the truth! hich is simply that! unless they gi#e up eating and drinking and enching and idling! neither drug nor cautery nor spell nor amulet nor any other remedy ill a#ail. (harmingD he replied. - see nothing charming in going into a passion ith a man ho tells you hat is right. These gentlemen! - said! do not seem to be in your good graces. =ssuredly not. 9or ould you praise the beha#iour of )tates hich act like the men hom - as just no describing. $or are there not illMordered )tates in hich the citi7ens are forbidden under pain of death to alter the constitutionO and yet he ho most s eetly courts those ho li#e under this regime

and indulges them and fa ns upon them and is skilful in anticipating and gratifying their humours is held to be a great and good statesmanMM do not these )tates resemble the persons hom - as describingK Les! he saidO the )tates are as bad as the menO and - am #ery far from praising them. &ut do you not admire! - said! the coolness and dexterity of these ready ministers of political corruptionK Les! he said! - doO but not of all of them! for there are some hom the applause of the multitude has deluded into the belief that they are really statesmen! and these are not much to be admired. What do you meanK - saidO you should ha#e more feeling for them. When a man cannot measure! and a great many others ho cannot measure declare that he is four cubits high! can he help belie#ing hat they sayK 9ay! he said! certainly not in that case. Well! then! do not be angry ith themO for are they not as good as a play! trying their hand at paltry reforms such as - as describingO they are al ays fancying that by legislation they ill make an end of frauds in contracts! and the other rascalities hich as mentioning! not kno ing that they are in reality cutting off the heads of a hydraK Les! he saidO that is just hat they are doing. - concei#e! - said! that the true legislator ill not trouble himself ith this class of enactments hether concerning la s or the constitution either in an illMordered or in a ellMordered )tateO for in the former they are Nuite useless! and in the latter there ill be no difficulty in de#ising themO and many of them ill naturally flo out of our pre#ious regulations. What! then! he said! is still remaining to us of the ork of legislationK 9othing to us! - repliedO but to =pollo! the God of "elphi!

there remains the ordering of the greatest and noblest and chiefest things of all. Which are theyK he said. The institution of temples and sacrifices! and the entire ser#ice of gods! demigods! and heroesO also the ordering of the repositories of the dead! and the rites hich ha#e to be obser#ed by him ho ould propitiate the inhabitants of the orld belo . These are matters of hich e are ignorant oursel#es! and as founders of a city e should be un ise in trusting them to any interpreter but our ancestral deity. 'e is the god ho sits in the center! on the na#el of the earth! and he is the interpreter of religion to all mankind. Lou are right! and e ill do as you propose. &ut here! amid all this! is justiceK son of =riston! tell me here. 9o that our city has been made habitable! light a candle and search! and get your brother and Polemarchus and the rest of our friends to help! and let us see here in it e can disco#er justice and here injustice! and in hat they differ from one another! and hich of them the man ho ould be happy should ha#e for his portion! hether seen or unseen by gods and men. )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 9onsense! said GlauconA did you not promise to search yourself! saying that for you not to help justice in her need ould be an impietyK - do not deny that - said so! and as you remind me! - ill be as good as my ordO but you must join. We ill! he replied. Well! then! - hope to make the disco#ery in this ayA - mean to begin ith the assumption that our )tate! if rightly ordered! is perfect. That is most certain.

=nd being perfect! is therefore ise and #aliant and temperate and just. That is like ise clear. =nd hiche#er of these Nualities e find in the )tate! the one hich is not found ill be the residueK %ery good. -f there ere four things! and e ere searching for one of them! here#er it might be! the one sought for might be kno n to us from the first! and there ould be no further troubleO or e might kno the other three first! and then the fourth ould clearly be the one left. %ery true! he said. =nd is not a similar method to be pursued about the #irtues! hich are also four in numberK (learly. $irst among the #irtues found in the )tate! isdom comes into #ie ! and in this - detect a certain peculiarity. What is thatK The )tate hich e ha#e been describing is said to be ise as being good in counselK %ery true. =nd good counsel is clearly a kind of kno ledge! for not by ignorance! but by kno ledge! do men counsel ellK (learly. =nd the kinds of kno ledge in a )tate are many and di#erseK

8f course. There is the kno ledge of the carpenterO but is that the sort of kno ledge hich gi#es a city the title of ise and good in counselK (ertainly notO that ould only gi#e a city the reputation of skill in carpentering. Then a city is not to be called ise because possessing a kno ledge hich counsels for the best about ooden implementsK (ertainly not. 9or by reason of a kno ledge hich ad#ises about bra7en pots! - said! nor as possessing any other similar kno ledgeK 9ot by reason of any of them! he said. 9or yet by reason of a kno ledge hich culti#ates the earthO that ould gi#e the city the name of agriculturalK Les. Well! - said! and is there any kno ledge in our recently founded )tate among any of the citi7ens hich ad#ises! not about any particular thing in the )tate! but about the hole! and considers ho a )tate can best deal ith itself and ith other )tatesK There certainly is. =nd hat is kno ledge! and among hom is it foundK - asked. -t is the kno ledge of the guardians! he replied! and found among those hom e ere just no describing as perfect guardians. =nd hat is the name hich the city deri#es from the possession of this sort of kno ledgeK The name of good in counsel and truly ise.

=nd ill there be in our city more of these true guardians or more smithsK The smiths! he replied! ill be far more numerous. Will not the guardians be the smallest of all the classes ho recei#e a name from the profession of some kind of kno ledgeK ;uch the smallest. =nd so by reason of the smallest part or class! and of the kno ledge hich resides in this presiding and ruling part of itself! the hole )tate! being thus constituted according to nature! ill be iseO and this! hich has the only kno ledge orthy to be called isdom! has been ordained by nature to be of all classes the least. ;ost true. Thus! then! - said! the nature and place in the )tate of one of the four #irtues has someho or other been disco#ered. =nd! in my humble opinion! #ery satisfactorily disco#ered! he replied. =gain! - said! there is no difficulty in seeing the nature of courageO and in hat part that Nuality resides hich gi#es the name of courageous to the )tate. 'o do you meanK Why! - said! e#ery one ho calls any )tate courageous or co ardly! ill be thinking of the part hich fights and goes out to ar on the )tate.s behalf. 9o one! he replied! ould e#er think of any other. (ertainly not. The rest of the citi7ens may be courageous or may be co ardly but

their courage or co ardice ill not! as - concei#e! ha#e the effect of making the city either the one or the other. The city ill be courageous in #irtue of a portion of herself hich preser#es under all circumstances that opinion about the nature of things to be feared and not to be feared in hich our legislator educated themO and this is hat you term courage. - should like to hear hat you are saying once more! for - do not think that - perfectly understand you. - mean that courage is a kind of sal#ation. )al#ation of hatK 8f the opinion respecting things to be feared! hat they are and of hat nature! hich the la implants through educationO and - mean by the ords Tunder all circumstances. to intimate that in pleasure or in pain! or under the influence of desire or fear! a man preser#es! and does not lose this opinion. )hall - gi#e you an illustrationK -f you please. Lou kno ! - said! that dyers! hen they ant to dye ool for making the true seaMpurple! begin by selecting their hite colour firstO this they prepare and dress ith much care and pains! in order that the hite ground may take the purple hue in full perfection. The dyeing then proceedsO and hate#er is dyed in this manner becomes a fast colour! and no ashing either ith lyes or ithout them can take a ay the bloom. &ut! hen the ground has not been duly prepared! you ill ha#e noticed ho poor is the look either of purple or of any other colour. Les! he saidO - kno that they ha#e a ashedMout and ridiculous appearance. Then no ! - said! you ill understand hat our object as in selecting our soldiers! and educating them in music and gymnasticO e ere contri#ing influences hich ould prepare them to take the dye of the la s in perfection! and the colour of their opinion about dangers

and of e#ery other opinion as to be indelibly fixed by their nurture and training! not to be ashed a ay by such potent lyes as pleasureMM mightier agent far in ashing the soul than any soda or lyeO or by sorro ! fear! and desire! the mightiest of all other sol#ents. =nd this sort of uni#ersal sa#ing po er of true opinion in conformity ith la about real and false dangers - call and maintain to be courage! unless you disagree. &ut - agree! he repliedO for - suppose that you mean to exclude mere uninstructed courage! such as that of a ild beast or of a sla#eMM this! in your opinion! is not the courage hich the la ordains! and ought to ha#e another name. ;ost certainly. Then - may infer courage to be such as you describeK Why! yes! said -! you may! and if you add the ords Tof a citi7en!. you ill not be far rongOMMhereafter! if you like! e ill carry the examination further! but at present e are e seeking not for courage but justiceO and for the purpose of our enNuiry e ha#e said enough. Lou are right! he replied. T o #irtues remain to be disco#ered in the )tateMfirst temperance! and then justice hich is the end of our search. %ery true. 9o ! can e find justice ithout troubling oursel#es about temperanceK - do not kno ho that can be accomplished! he said! nor do - desire that justice should be brought to light and temperance lost sight ofO and therefore - ish that you ould do me the fa#our of considering temperance first. (ertainly! - replied! - should not be justified in refusing your reNuest.

Then consider! he said. Les! - repliedO - illO and as far as - can at present see! the #irtue of temperance has more of the nature of harmony and symphony than the preceding. 'o soK he asked. Temperance! - replied! is the ordering or controlling of certain pleasures and desiresO this is curiously enough implied in the saying of Ta man being his o n master. and other traces of the same notion may be found in language. 9o doubt! he said. There is something ridiculous in the expression Tmaster of himself.O for the master is also the ser#ant and the ser#ant the masterO and in all these modes of speaking the same person is denoted. (ertainly. The meaning is! - belie#e! that in the human soul there is a better and also a orse principleO and hen the better has the orse under control! then a man is said to be master of himselfO and this is a term of praiseA but hen! o ing to e#il education or association! the better principle! hich is also the smaller! is o#er helmed by the greater mass of the orseMMin this case he is blamed and is called the sla#e of self and unprincipled. Les! there is reason in that. =nd no ! - said! look at our ne ly created )tate! and there you ill find one of these t o conditions realisedO for the )tate! as you ill ackno ledge! may be justly called master of itself! if the ords Ttemperance. and TselfMmastery. truly express the rule of the better part o#er the orse. Les! he said! - see that hat you say is true. <et me further note that the manifold and complex pleasures

and desires and pains are generally found in children and omen and ser#ants! and in the freemen so called ho are of the lo est and more numerous class. (ertainly! he said. Whereas the simple and moderate desires hich follo reason! and are under the guidance of mind and true opinion! are to be found only in a fe ! and those the best born and best educated. %ery true. These t o! as you may percei#e! ha#e a place in our )tateO and the meaner desires of the are held do n by the #irtuous desires and isdom of the fe . That - percei#e! he said. Then if there be any city hich may be described as master of its o n pleasures and desires! and master of itself! ours may claim such a designationK (ertainly! he replied. -t may also be called temperate! and for the same reasonsK Les. =nd if there be any )tate in hich rulers and subjects ill be agreed as to the Nuestion ho are to rule! that again ill be our )tateK :ndoubtedly. =nd the citi7ens being thus agreed among themsel#es! in hich class ill temperance be foundMMin the rulers or in the subjectsK -n both! as - should imagine! he replied. "o you obser#e that e ere not far rong in our guess that temperance as a sort of harmonyK Why soK

Why! because temperance is unlike courage and isdom! each of hich resides in a part only! the one making the )tate ise and the other #aliantO not so temperance! hich extends to the hole! and runs through all the notes of the scale! and produces a harmony of the eaker and the stronger and the middle class! hether you suppose them to be stronger or eaker in isdom or po er or numbers or ealth! or anything else. ;ost truly then may e deem temperance to be the agreement of the naturally superior and inferior! as to the right to rule of either! both in states and indi#iduals. - entirely agree ith you. =nd so! - said! e may consider three out of the four #irtues to ha#e been disco#ered in our )tate. The last of those Nualities hich make a state #irtuous must be justice! if e only kne hat that as. The inference is ob#ious. The time then has arri#ed! Glaucon! hen! like huntsmen! e should surround the co#er! and look sharp that justice does not steal a ay! and pass out of sight and escape usO for beyond a doubt she is some here in this countryA atch therefore and stri#e to catch a sight of her! and if you see her first! let me kno . Would that - couldD but you should regard me rather as a follo er ho has just eyes enough to! see hat you sho himMMthat is about as much as - am good for. 8ffer up a prayer ith me and follo . - ill! but you must sho me the ay. 'ere is no path! - said! and the ood is dark and perplexingO still e must push on. <et us push on. 'ere - sa somethingA 'allooD - said! - begin to percei#e a track! and - belie#e that the Nuarry ill not escape.

Good ne s! he said. Truly! - said! e are stupid fello s. Why soK Why! my good sir! at the beginning of our enNuiry! ages ago! there as justice tumbling out at our feet! and e ne#er sa herO nothing could be more ridiculous. <ike people ho go about looking for hat they ha#e in their handsMMthat as the ay ith usMM e looked not at hat e ere seeking! but at hat as far off in the distanceO and therefore! - suppose! e missed her. What do you meanK - mean to say that in reality for a long time past e ha#e been talking of justice! and ha#e failed to recognise her. - gro impatient at the length of your exordium. Well then! tell me! - said! hether - am right or notA Lou remember the original principle hich e ere al ays laying do n at the foundation of the )tate! that one man should practise one thing only! the thing to hich his nature as best adaptedOMM no justice is this principle or a part of it. Les! e often said that one man should do one thing only. $urther! e affirmed that justice as doing one.s o n business! and not being a busybodyO e said so again and again! and many others ha#e said the same to us. Les! e said so. Then to do one.s o n business in a certain ay may be assumed to be justice. (an you tell me hence - deri#e this inferenceK - cannot! but - should like to be told.

&ecause - think that this is the only #irtue hich remains in the )tate hen the other #irtues of temperance and courage and isdom are abstractedO and! that this is the ultimate cause and condition of the existence of all of them! and hile remaining in them is also their preser#ati#eO and e ere saying that if the three ere disco#ered by us! justice ould be the fourth or remaining one. That follo s of necessity. -f e are asked to determine hich of these four Nualities by its presence contributes most to the excellence of the )tate! hether the agreement of rulers and subjects! or the preser#ation in the soldiers of the opinion hich the la ordains about the true nature of dangers! or isdom and atchfulness in the rulers! or hether this other hich - am mentioning! and hich is found in children and omen! sla#e and freeman! artisan! ruler! subject!MMthe Nuality! - mean! of e#ery one doing his o n ork! and not being a busybody! ould claim the palmMMthe Nuestion is not so easily ans ered. (ertainly! he replied! there ould be a difficulty in saying hich. Then the po er of each indi#idual in the )tate to do his o n ork appears to compete ith the other political #irtues! isdom! temperance! courage. Les! he said. =nd the #irtue hich enters into this competition is justiceK Exactly. <et us look at the Nuestion from another point of #ie A =re not the rulers in a )tate those to hom you ould entrust the office of determining suits at la K (ertainly. =nd are suits decided on any other ground but that a man may neither take hat is another.s! nor be depri#ed of hat is his o nK

LesO that is their principle. Which is a just principleK Les. Then on this #ie also justice ill be admitted to be the ha#ing and doing hat is a man.s o n! and belongs to himK %ery true. Think! no ! and say hether you agree ith me or not. )uppose a carpenter to be doing the business of a cobbler! or a cobbler of a carpenterO and suppose them to exchange their implements or their duties! or the same person to be doing the ork of both! or hate#er be the changeO do you think that any great harm ould result to the )tateK 9ot much. &ut hen the cobbler or any other man hom nature designed to be a trader! ha#ing his heart lifted up by ealth or strength or the number of his follo ers! or any like ad#antage! attempts to force his ay into the class of arriors! or a arrior into that of legislators and guardians! for hich he is unfitted! and either to take the implements or the duties of the otherO or hen one man is trader! legislator! and arrior all in one! then - think you ill agree ith me in saying that this interchange and this meddling of one ith another is the ruin of the )tate. ;ost true. )eeing then! - said! that there are three distinct classes! any meddling of one ith another! or the change of one into another! is the greatest harm to the )tate! and may be most justly termed e#ilMdoingK Precisely. =nd the greatest degree of e#ilMdoing to one.s o n city ould be termed by you injusticeK

(ertainly. This then is injusticeO and on the other hand hen the trader! the auxiliary! and the guardian each do their o n business! that is justice! and ill make the city just. - agree ith you. We ill not! - said! be o#erMpositi#e as yetO but if! on trial! this conception of justice be #erified in the indi#idual as ell as in the )tate! there ill be no longer any room for doubtO if it be not #erified! e must ha#e a fresh enNuiry. $irst let us complete the old in#estigation! hich e began! as you remember! under the impression that! if e could pre#iously examine justice on the larger scale! there ould be less difficulty in discerning her in the indi#idual. That larger example appeared to be the )tate! and accordingly e constructed as good a one as e could! kno ing ell that in the good )tate justice ould be found. <et the disco#ery hich e made be no applied to the indi#idualMMif they agree! e shall be satisfiedO or! if there be a difference in the indi#idual! e ill come back to the )tate and ha#e another trial of the theory. The friction of the t o hen rubbed together may possibly strike a light in hich justice ill shine forth! and the #ision hich is then re#ealed e ill fix in our souls. That ill be in regular courseO let us do as you say. - proceeded to askA When t o things! a greater and less! are called by the same name! are they like or unlike in so far as they are called the sameK <ike! he replied. The just man then! if e regard the idea of justice only! ill be like the just )tateK 'e ill. =nd a )tate as thought by us to be just hen the three classes

in the )tate se#erally did their o n businessO and also thought to be temperate and #aliant and ise by reason of certain other affections and Nualities of these same classesK True! he said. =nd so of the indi#idualO e may assume that he has the same three principles in his o n soul hich are found in the )tateO and he may be rightly described in the same terms! because he is affected in the same mannerK (ertainly! he said. 8nce more then! 8 my friend! e ha#e alighted upon an easy NuestionMM hether the soul has these three principles or notK =n easy NuestionD 9ay! rather! )ocrates! the pro#erb holds that hard is the good. %ery true! - saidO and - do not think that the method hich e are employing is at all adeNuate to the accurate solution of this NuestionO the true method is another and a longer one. )till e may arri#e at a solution not belo the le#el of the pre#ious enNuiry. ;ay e not be satisfied ith thatK he saidOMMunder the circumstances! - am Nuite content. - too! - replied! shall be extremely ell satisfied. Then faint not in pursuing the speculation! he said. ;ust e not ackno ledge! - said! that in each of us there are the same principles and habits hich there are in the )tateO and that from the indi#idual they pass into the )tateKMMho else can they come thereK Take the Nuality of passion or spiritOMMit ould be ridiculous to imagine that this Nuality! hen found in )tates! is not deri#ed from the indi#iduals ho are supposed to possess it! e.g. the Thracians! )cythians! and in general the northern nationsO and the same may be said of the lo#e of kno ledge! hich is the special characteristic of our part of the orld! or of the lo#e of money!

hich may! ith eNual truth! be attributed to the Phoenicians and Egyptians. Exactly so! he said. There is no difficulty in understanding this. 9one hate#er. &ut the Nuestion is not Nuite so easy hen e proceed to ask hether these principles are three or oneO hether! that is to say! e learn ith one part of our nature! are angry ith another! and ith a third part desire the satisfaction of our natural appetitesO or hether the hole soul comes into play in each sort of actionMM to determine that is the difficulty. Les! he saidO there lies the difficulty. Then let us no try and determine hether they are the same or different. 'o can eK he asked. - replied as follo sA The same thing clearly cannot act or be acted upon in the same part or in relation to the same thing at the same time! in contrary aysO and therefore hene#er this contradiction occurs in things apparently the same! e kno that they are really not the same! but different. Good. $or example! - said! can the same thing be at rest and in motion at the same time in the same partK -mpossible. )till! - said! let us ha#e a more precise statement of terms! lest e should hereafter fall out by the ay. -magine the case of a man ho is standing and also mo#ing his hands and his head! and suppose a person to say that one and the same person is in motion and at rest at the same momentMto such a mode of speech e should object!

and should rather say that one part of him is in motion hile another is at rest. %ery true. =nd suppose the objector to refine still further! and to dra the nice distinction that not only parts of tops! but hole tops! hen they spin round ith their pegs fixed on the spot! are at rest and in motion at the same time >and he may say the same of anything hich re#ol#es in the same spot?! his objection ould not be admitted by us! because in such cases things are not at rest and in motion in the same parts of themsel#esO e should rather say that they ha#e both an axis and a circumference! and that the axis stands still! for there is no de#iation from the perpendicularO and that the circumference goes round. &ut if! hile re#ol#ing! the axis inclines either to the right or left! for ards or back ards! then in no point of #ie can they be at rest. That is the correct mode of describing them! he replied. Then none of these objections ill confuse us! or incline us to belie#e that the same thing at the same time! in the same part or in relation to the same thing! can act or be acted upon in contrary ays. (ertainly not! according to my ay of thinking. Let! - said! that e may not be compelled to examine all such objections! and pro#e at length that they are untrue! let us assume their absurdity! and go for ard on the understanding that hereafter! if this assumption turn out to be untrue! all the conseNuences hich follo shall be ithdra n. Les! he said! that ill be the best ay. Well! - said! ould you not allo that assent and dissent! desire and a#ersion! attraction and repulsion! are all of them opposites! hether they are regarded as acti#e or passi#e >for that makes no difference in the fact of their opposition?K Les! he said! they are opposites.

Well! - said! and hunger and thirst! and the desires in general! and again illing and ishing!MMall these you ould refer to the classes already mentioned. Lou ould sayMM ould you notKMMthat the soul of him ho desires is seeking after the object of his desiresO or that he is dra ing to himself the thing hich he ishes to possessA or again! hen a person ants anything to be gi#en him! his mind! longing for the realisation of his desires! intimates his ish to ha#e it by a nod of assent! as if he had been asked a NuestionK %ery true. =nd hat ould you say of un illingness and dislike and the absence of desireO should not these be referred to the opposite class of repulsion and rejectionK (ertainly. =dmitting this to be true of desire generally! let us suppose a particular class of desires! and out of these e ill select hunger and thirst! as they are termed! hich are the most ob#ious of themK <et us take that class! he said. The object of one is food! and of the other drinkK Les. =nd here comes the pointA is not thirst the desire hich the soul has of drink! and of drink onlyO not of drink Nualified by anything elseO for example! arm or cold! or much or little! or! in a ord! drink of any particular sortA but if the thirst be accompanied by heat! then the desire is of cold drinkO or! if accompanied by cold! then of arm drinkO or! if the thirst be excessi#e! then the drink hich is desired ill be excessi#eO or! if not great! the Nuantity of drink ill also be smallA but thirst pure and simple ill desire drink pure and simple! hich is the natural satisfaction of thirst! as food is of hungerK Les! he saidO the simple desire is! as you say! in e#ery case of the simple object! and the Nualified desire of the Nualified object.

&ut here a confusion may ariseO and - should ish to guard against an opponent starting up and saying that no man desires drink only! but good drink! or food only! but good foodO for good is the uni#ersal object of desire! and thirst being a desire! ill necessarily be thirst after good drinkO and the same is true of e#ery other desire. Les! he replied! the opponent might ha#e something to say. 9e#ertheless - should still maintain! that of relati#es some ha#e a Nuality attached to either term of the relationO others are simple and ha#e their correlati#es simple. - do not kno hat you mean.

Well! you kno of course that the greater is relati#e to the lessK (ertainly. =nd the much greater to the much lessK Les. =nd the sometime greater to the sometime less! and the greater that is to be to the less that is to beK (ertainly! he said. =nd so of more and less! and of other correlati#e terms! such as the double and the half! or again! the hea#ier and the lighter! the s ifter and the slo erO and of hot and cold! and of any other relati#esOMMis not this true of all of themK Les. =nd does not the same principle hold in the sciencesK The object of science is kno ledge >assuming that to be the true definition?! but the object of a particular science is a particular kind of kno ledgeO - mean! for example! that the science of houseMbuilding is a kind of kno ledge hich is defined and distinguished from other kinds

and is therefore termed architecture. (ertainly. &ecause it has a particular Nuality hich no other hasK Les. =nd it has this particular Nuality because it has an object of a particular kindO and this is true of the other arts and sciencesK Les. 9o ! then! if - ha#e made myself clear! you ill understand my original meaning in hat - said about relati#es. ;y meaning as! that if one term of a relation is taken alone! the other is taken aloneO if one term is Nualified! the other is also Nualified. - do not mean to say that relati#es may not be disparate! or that the science of health is healthy! or of disease necessarily diseased! or that the sciences of good and e#il are therefore good and e#ilO but only that! hen the term science is no longer used absolutely! but has a Nualified object hich in this case is the nature of health and disease! it becomes defined! and is hence called not merely science! but the science of medicine. - Nuite understand! and - think as you do. Would you not say that thirst is one of these essentially relati#e terms! ha#ing clearly a relationMM Les! thirst is relati#e to drink. =nd a certain kind of thirst is relati#e to a certain kind of drinkO but thirst taken alone is neither of much nor little! nor of good nor bad! nor of any particular kind of drink! but of drink onlyK (ertainly. Then the soul of the thirsty one! in so far as he is thirsty! desires only drinkO for this he yearns and tries to obtain itK

That is plain. =nd if you suppose something hich pulls a thirsty soul a ay from drink! that must be different from the thirsty principle hich dra s him like a beast to drinkO for! as e ere saying! the same thing cannot at the same time ith the same part of itself act in contrary ays about the same. -mpossible. 9o more than you can say that the hands of the archer push and pull the bo at the same time! but hat you say is that one hand pushes and the other pulls. Exactly so! he replied. =nd might a man be thirsty! and yet un illing to drinkK Les! he said! it constantly happens. =nd in such a case hat is one to sayK Would you not say that there as something in the soul bidding a man to drink! and something else forbidding him! hich is other and stronger than the principle hich bids himK - should say so. =nd the forbidding principle is deri#ed from reason! and that hich bids and attracts proceeds from passion and diseaseK (learly. Then e may fairly assume that they are t o! and that they differ from one anotherO the one ith hich man reasons! e may call the rational principle of the soul! the other! ith hich he lo#es and hungers and thirsts and feels the flutterings of any other desire! may be termed the irrational or appetiti#e! the ally of sundry pleasures and satisfactionsK

Les! he said! e may fairly assume them to be different. Then let us finally determine that there are t o principles existing in the soul. =nd hat of passion! or spiritK -s it a third! or akin to one of the precedingK - should be inclined to sayMMakin to desire. Well! - said! there is a story hich - remember to ha#e heard! and in hich - put faith. The story is! that <eontius! the son of =glaion! coming up one day from the Piraeus! under the north all on the outside! obser#ed some dead bodies lying on the ground at the place of execution. 'e felt a desire to see them! and also a dread and abhorrence of themO for a time he struggled and co#ered his eyes! but at length the desire got the better of himO and forcing them open! he ran up to the dead bodies! saying! <ook! ye retches! take your fill of the fair sight. - ha#e heard the story myself! he said. The moral of the tale is! that anger at times goes to ar ith desire! as though they ere t o distinct things. LesO that is the meaning! he said. =nd are there not many other cases in hich e obser#e that hen a man.s desires #iolently pre#ail o#er his reason! he re#iles himself! and is angry at the #iolence ithin him! and that in this struggle! hich is like the struggle of factions in a )tate! his spirit is on the side of his reasonOMMbut for the passionate or spirited element to take part ith the desires hen reason that she should not be opposed! is a sort of thing hich thing hich - belie#e that you ne#er obser#ed occurring in yourself! nor! as - should imagine! in any one elseK (ertainly not. )uppose that a man thinks he has done a rong to another! the nobler he is the less able is he to feel indignant at any suffering! such as hunger! or cold! or any other pain hich the injured person

may inflict upon himMMthese he deems to be just! and! as - say! his anger refuses to be excited by them. True! he said. &ut hen he thinks that he is the sufferer of the rong! then he boils and chafes! and is on the side of hat he belie#es to be justiceO and because he suffers hunger or cold or other pain he is only the more determined to perse#ere and conNuer. 'is noble spirit ill not be Nuelled until he either slays or is slainO or until he hears the #oice of the shepherd! that is! reason! bidding his dog bark no more. The illustration is perfect! he repliedO and in our )tate! as e ere saying! the auxiliaries ere to be dogs! and to hear the #oice of the rulers! ho are their shepherds. - percei#e! - said! that you Nuite understand meO there is! ho e#er! a further point hich - ish you to consider. What pointK Lou remember that passion or spirit appeared at first sight to be a kind of desire! but no e should say Nuite the contraryO for in the conflict of the soul spirit is arrayed on the side of the rational principle. ;ost assuredly. &ut a further Nuestion arisesA -s passion different from reason also! or only a kind of reasonO in hich latter case! instead of three principles in the soul! there ill only be t o! the rational and the concupiscentO or rather! as the )tate as composed of three classes! traders! auxiliaries! counsellors! so may there not be in the indi#idual soul a third element hich is passion or spirit! and hen not corrupted by bad education is the natural auxiliary of reason Les! he said! there must be a third.

Les! - replied! if passion! hich has already been sho n to be different from desire! turn out also to be different from reason. &ut that is easily pro#edAMMWe may obser#e e#en in young children that they are full of spirit almost as soon as they are born! hereas some of them ne#er seem to attain to the use of reason! and most of them late enough. Excellent! - said! and you may see passion eNually in brute animals! hich is a further proof of the truth of hat you are saying. =nd e may once more appeal to the ords of 'omer! hich ha#e been already Nuoted by us! 'e smote his breast! and thus rebuked his soul! for in this #erse 'omer has clearly supposed the po er hich reasons about the better and orse to be different from the unreasoning anger hich is rebuked by it. %ery true! he said. =nd so! after much tossing! e ha#e reached land! and are fairly agreed that the same principles hich exist in the )tate exist also in the indi#idual! and that they are three in number. Exactly. ;ust e not then infer that the indi#idual is ise in the same ay! and in #irtue of the same Nuality hich makes the )tate iseK (ertainly. =lso that the same Nuality hich constitutes courage in the )tate constitutes courage in the indi#idual! and that both the )tate and the indi#idual bear the same relation to all the other #irtuesK =ssuredly. =nd the indi#idual ill be ackno ledged by us to be just in the same ay in hich the )tate is justK

That follo s! of course. We cannot but remember that the justice of the )tate consisted in each of the three classes doing the ork of its o n classK We are not #ery likely to ha#e forgotten! he said. We must recollect that the indi#idual in hom the se#eral Nualities of his nature do their o n ork ill be just! and ill do his o n orkK Les! he said! e must remember that too. =nd ought not the rational principle! hich is ise! and has the care of the hole soul! to rule! and the passionate or spirited principle to be the subject and allyK (ertainly. =nd! as e ere saying! the united influence of music and gymnastic ill bring them into accord! ner#ing and sustaining the reason ith noble ords and lessons! and moderating and soothing and ci#ili7ing the ildness of passion by harmony and rhythmK Puite true! he said. =nd these t o! thus nurtured and educated! and ha#ing learned truly to kno their o n functions! ill rule o#er the concupiscent! hich in each of us is the largest part of the soul and by nature most insatiable of gainO o#er this they ill keep guard! lest! axing great and strong ith the fulness of bodily pleasures! as they are termed! the concupiscent soul! no longer confined to her o n sphere! should attempt to ensla#e and rule those ho are not her naturalMborn subjects! and o#erturn the hole life of manK %ery true! he said. &oth together ill they not be the best defenders of the hole soul and the hole body against attacks from ithoutO the one counselling! and the other fighting under his leader! and courageously executing

his commands and counselsK True. =nd he is to be deemed courageous hose spirit retains in pleasure and in pain the commands of reason about hat he ought or ought not to fearK Right! he replied. =nd him e call ise ho has in him that little part hich rules! and hich proclaims these commandsO that part too being supposed to ha#e a kno ledge of hat is for the interest of each of the three parts and of the holeK =ssuredly. =nd ould you not say that he is temperate ho has these same elements in friendly harmony! in hom the one ruling principle of reason! and the t o subject ones of spirit and desire are eNually agreed that reason ought to rule! and do not rebelK (ertainly! he said! that is the true account of temperance hether in the )tate or indi#idual. =nd surely! - said! e ha#e explained again and again ho and by #irtue of hat Nuality a man ill be just. That is #ery certain. =nd is justice dimmer in the indi#idual! and is her form different! or is she the same hich e found her to be in the )tateK There is no difference in my opinion! he said. &ecause! if any doubt is still lingering in our minds! a fe commonplace instances ill satisfy us of the truth of hat - am saying. What sort of instances do you meanK

-f the case is put to us! must e not admit that the just )tate! or the man ho is trained in the principles of such a )tate! ill be less likely than the unjust to make a ay ith a deposit of gold or sil#erK Would any one deny thisK 9o one! he replied. Will the just man or citi7en e#er be guilty of sacrilege or theft! or treachery either to his friends or to his countryK 9e#er. 9either ill he e#er break faith here there ha#e been oaths or agreementsK -mpossible. 9o one ill be less likely to commit adultery! or to dishonour his father and mother! or to fall in his religious dutiesK 9o one. =nd the reason is that each part of him is doing its o n business! hether in ruling or being ruledK Exactly so. =re you satisfied then that the Nuality hich makes such men and such states is justice! or do you hope to disco#er some otherK 9ot -! indeed. Then our dream has been realisedO and the suspicion hich e entertained at the beginning of our ork of construction! that some di#ine po er must ha#e conducted us to a primary form of justice! has no been #erifiedK Les! certainly. =nd the di#ision of labour hich reNuired the carpenter and the shoemaker

and the rest of the citi7ens to be doing each his o n business! and not another.s! as a shado of justice! and for that reason it as of useK (learly. &ut in reality justice as such as e ere describing! being concerned ho e#er! not ith the out ard man! but ith the in ard! hich is the true self and concernment of manA for the just man does not permit the se#eral elements ithin him to interfere ith one another! or any of them to do the ork of others!MMhe sets in order his o n inner life! and is his o n master and his o n la ! and at peace ith himselfO and hen he has bound together the three principles ithin him! hich may be compared to the higher! lo er! and middle notes of the scale! and the intermediate inter#alsMM hen he has bound all these together! and is no longer many! but has become one entirely temperate and perfectly adjusted nature! then he proceeds to act! if he has to act! hether in a matter of property! or in the treatment of the body! or in some affair of politics or pri#ate businessO al ays thinking and calling that hich preser#es and coMoperates ith this harmonious condition! just and good action! and the kno ledge hich presides o#er it! isdom! and that hich at any time impairs this condition! he ill call unjust action! and the opinion hich presides o#er it ignorance. Lou ha#e said the exact truth! )ocrates. %ery goodO and if e ere to affirm that e had disco#ered the just man and the just )tate! and the nature of justice in each of them! e should not be telling a falsehoodK ;ost certainly not. ;ay e say so! thenK <et us say so. =nd no ! - said! injustice has to be considered. (learly.

;ust not injustice be a strife hich arises among the three principlesMM a meddlesomeness! and interference! and rising up of a part of the soul against the hole! an assertion of unla ful authority! hich is made by a rebellious subject against a true prince! of hom he is the natural #assal!MM hat is all this confusion and delusion but injustice! and intemperance and co ardice and ignorance! and e#ery form of #iceK Exactly so. =nd if the nature of justice and injustice be kno n! then the meaning of acting unjustly and being unjust! or! again! of acting justly! ill also be perfectly clearK What do you meanK he said. Why! - said! they are like disease and healthO being in the soul just hat disease and health are in the body. 'o soK he said. Why! - said! that hich is healthy causes health! and that hich is unhealthy causes disease. Les. =nd just actions cause justice! and unjust actions cause injusticeK That is certain. =nd the creation of health is the institution of a natural order and go#ernment of one by another in the parts of the bodyO and the creation of disease is the production of a state of things at #ariance ith this natural orderK True. =nd is not the creation of justice the institution of a natural order and go#ernment of one by another in the parts of the soul!

and the creation of injustice the production of a state of things at #ariance ith the natural orderK Exactly so! he said. Then #irtue is the health and beauty and ellMbeing of the soul! and #ice the disease and eakness and deformity of the sameK True. =nd do not good practices lead to #irtue! and e#il practices to #iceK =ssuredly. )till our old Nuestion of the comparati#e ad#antage of justice and injustice has not been ans eredA Which is the more profitable! to be just and act justly and practise #irtue! hether seen or unseen of gods and men! or to be unjust and act unjustly! if only unpunished and unreformedK -n my judgment! )ocrates! the Nuestion has no become ridiculous. We kno that! hen the bodily constitution is gone! life is no longer endurable! though pampered ith all kinds of meats and drinks! and ha#ing all ealth and all po erO and shall e be told that hen the #ery essence of the #ital principle is undermined and corrupted! life is still orth ha#ing to a man! if only he be allo ed to do hate#er he likes ith the single exception that he is not to acNuire justice and #irtue! or to escape from injustice and #iceO assuming them both to be such as e ha#e describedK Les! - said! the Nuestion is! as you say! ridiculous. )till! as e are near the spot at hich e may see the truth in the clearest manner ith our o n eyes! let us not faint by the ay. (ertainly not! he replied. (ome up hither! - said! and behold the #arious forms of #ice! those of them! - mean! hich are orth looking at. - am follo ing you! he repliedA proceed.

- said! The argument seems to ha#e reached a height from hich! as from some to er of speculation! a man may look do n and see that #irtue is one! but that the forms of #ice are innumerableO there being four special ones hich are deser#ing of note. What do you meanK he said. - mean! - replied! that there appear to be as many forms of the soul as there are distinct forms of the )tate. 'o manyK There are fi#e of the )tate! and fi#e of the soul! - said. What are theyK The first! - said! is that hich e ha#e been describing! and hich may be said to ha#e t o names! monarchy and aristocracy! accordingly as rule is exercised by one distinguished man or by many. True! he replied. &ut - regard the t o names as describing one form onlyO for hether the go#ernment is in the hands of one or many! if the go#ernors ha#e been trained in the manner hich e ha#e supposed! the fundamental la s of the )tate ill be maintained. That is true! he replied.

&88Q % )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 M ="E-;=9T:) ):(' is the good and true (ity or )tate! and the good and man is of the same patternO and if this is right e#ery other is rongO

and the e#il is one hich affects not only the ordering of the )tate! but also the regulation of the indi#idual soul! and is exhibited in four forms. What are theyK he said. - as proceeding to tell the order in hich the four e#il forms appeared to me to succeed one another! hen Pole marchus! ho as sitting a little ay off! just beyond =deimantus! began to hisper to himA stretching forth his hand! he took hold of the upper part of his coat by the shoulder! and dre him to ards him! leaning for ard himself so as to be Nuite close and saying something in his ear! of hich - only caught the ords! T)hall e let him off! or hat shall e doK. (ertainly not! said =deimantus! raising his #oice. Who is it! - said! hom you are refusing to let offK Lou! he said. - repeated! Why am - especially not to be let offK Why! he said! e think that you are la7y! and mean to cheat us out of a hole chapter hich is a #ery important part of the storyO and you fancy that e shall not notice your airy ay of proceedingO as if it ere selfMe#ident to e#erybody! that in the matter of omen and children Tfriends ha#e all things in common.. =nd as - not right! =deimantusK Les! he saidO but hat is right in this particular case! like e#erything else! reNuires to be explainedO for community may be of many kinds. Please! therefore! to say hat sort of community you mean. We ha#e been long expecting that you ould tell us something about the family life of your citi7ensMMho they ill bring children into the orld! and rear them hen they ha#e arri#ed! and! in general! hat is the nature of this community of omen and childrenMfor e are of opinion that the right or rong management of such matters ill ha#e a great and paramount influence on the )tate for good

or for e#il. =nd no ! since the Nuestion is still undetermined! and you are taking in hand another )tate! e ha#e resol#ed! as you heard! not to let you go until you gi#e an account of all this. To that resolution! said Glaucon! you may regard me as saying =greed. )8(R=TE) M ="E-;=9T:) M G<=:(89 M T'R=)L;=(':) =nd ithout more ado! said Thrasymachus! you may consider us all to be eNually agreed. - said! Lou kno not hat you are doing in thus assailing meA What an argument are you raising about the )tateD /ust as thought that - had finished! and as only too glad that - had laid this Nuestion to sleep! and as reflecting ho fortunate as in your acceptance of hat - then said! you ask me to begin again at the #ery foundation! ignorant of hat a hornet.s nest of ords you are stirring. 9o - foresa this gathering trouble! and a#oided it. $or hat purpose do you concei#e that e ha#e come here! said Thrasymachus!MMto look for gold! or to hear discourseK Les! but discourse should ha#e a limit. Les! )ocrates! said Glaucon! and the hole of life is the only limit hich ise men assign to the hearing of such discourses. &ut ne#er mind about usO take heart yourself and ans er the Nuestion in your o n ayA What sort of community of omen and children is this hich is to pre#ail among our guardiansK and ho shall e manage the period bet een birth and education! hich seems to reNuire the greatest careK Tell us ho these things ill be. Les! my simple friend! but the ans er is the re#erse of easyO many more doubts arise about this than about our pre#ious conclusions. $or the practicability of hat is said may be doubtedO and looked at in another point of #ie ! hether the scheme! if e#er so practicable! ould be for the best! is also doubtful. 'ence - feel a reluctance to approach the subject! lest our aspiration! my dear friend! should turn out to be a dream only.

$ear not! he replied! for your audience ill not be hard upon youO they are not sceptical or hostile. - saidA ;y good friend! - suppose that you mean to encourage me by these ords. Les! he said. Then let me tell you that you are doing just the re#erseO the encouragement hich you offer ould ha#e been all #ery ell had - myself belie#ed that - kne hat - as talking aboutA to declare the truth about matters of high interest hich a man honours and lo#es among ise men ho lo#e him need occasion no fear or faltering in his mindO but to carry on an argument hen you are yourself only a hesitating enNuirer! hich is my condition! is a dangerous and slippery thingO and the danger is not that shall be laughed at >of hich the fear ould be childish?! but that - shall miss the truth here - ha#e most need to be sure of my footing! and drag my friends after me in my fall. =nd - pray 9emesis not to #isit upon me the ords hich - am going to utter. $or - do indeed belie#e that to be an in#oluntary homicide is a less crime than to be a decei#er about beauty or goodness or justice in the matter of la s. =nd that is a risk hich - ould rather run among enemies than among friends! and therefore you do ell to encourage me. Glaucon laughed and saidA Well then! )ocrates! in case you and your argument do us any serious injury you shall be acNuitted beforehand of the and shall not be held to be a decei#erO take courage then and speak. Well! - said! the la says that hen a man is acNuitted he is free from guilt! and hat holds at la may hold in argument. Then hy should you mindK Well! - replied! - suppose that - must retrace my steps and say hat - perhaps ought to ha#e said before in the proper place. The part of the men has been played out! and no properly enough

comes the turn of the omen. 8f them - ill proceed to speak! and the more readily since - am in#ited by you. $or men born and educated like our citi7ens! the only ay! in my opinion! of arri#ing at a right conclusion about the possession and use of omen and children is to follo the path on hich e originally started! hen e said that the men ere to be the guardians and atchdogs of the herd. True. <et us further suppose the birth and education of our omen to be subject to similar or nearly similar regulationsO then e shall see hether the result accords ith our design. What do you meanK What - mean may be put into the form of a Nuestion! - saidA =re dogs di#ided into hes and shes! or do they both share eNually in hunting and in keeping atch and in the other duties of dogsK or do e entrust to the males the entire and exclusi#e care of the flocks! hile e lea#e the females at home! under the idea that the bearing and suckling their puppies is labour enough for themK 9o! he said! they share alikeO the only difference bet een them is that the males are stronger and the females eaker. &ut can you use different animals for the same purpose! unless they are bred and fed in the same ayK Lou cannot. Then! if omen are to ha#e the same duties as men! they must ha#e the same nurture and educationK Les. The education hich as assigned to the men as music and gymnastic. Les.

Then omen must be taught music and gymnastic and also the art of ar! hich they must practise like the menK That is the inference! - suppose. - should rather expect! - said! that se#eral of our proposals! if they are carried out! being unusual! may appear ridiculous. 9o doubt of it. Les! and the most ridiculous thing of all ill be the sight of omen naked in the palaestra! exercising ith the men! especially hen they are no longer youngO they certainly ill not be a #ision of beauty! any more than the enthusiastic old men ho in spite of rinkles and ugliness continue to freNuent the gymnasia. Les! indeed! he saidA according to present notions the proposal ould be thought ridiculous. &ut then! - said! as e ha#e determined to speak our minds! e must not fear the jests of the its hich ill be directed against this sort of inno#ationO ho they ill talk of omen.s attainments both in music and gymnastic! and abo#e all about their earing armour and riding upon horsebackD %ery true! he replied. Let ha#ing begun e must go for ard to the rough places of the la O at the same time begging of these gentlemen for once in their life to be serious. 9ot long ago! as e shall remind them! the 'ellenes ere of the opinion! hich is still generally recei#ed among the barbarians! that the sight of a naked man as ridiculous and improperO and hen first the (retans and then the <acedaemonians introduced the custom! the its of that day might eNually ha#e ridiculed the inno#ation. 9o doubt. &ut hen experience sho ed that to let all things be unco#ered as far better than to co#er them up! and the ludicrous effect to the out ard

eye #anished before the better principle hich reason asserted! then the man as percei#ed to be a fool ho directs the shafts of his ridicule at any other sight but that of folly and #ice! or seriously inclines to eigh the beautiful by any other standard but that of the good. %ery true! he replied. $irst! then! hether the Nuestion is to be put in jest or in earnest! let us come to an understanding about the nature of omanA -s she capable of sharing either holly or partially in the actions of men! or not at allK =nd is the art of ar one of those arts in hich she can or can not shareK That ill be the best ay of commencing the enNuiry! and ill probably lead to the fairest conclusion. That ill be much the best ay. )hall e take the other side first and begin by arguing against oursel#esO in this manner the ad#ersary.s position ill not be undefended. Why notK he said. Then let us put a speech into the mouths of our opponents. They ill sayA T)ocrates and Glaucon! no ad#ersary need con#ict you! for you yoursel#es! at the first foundation of the )tate! admitted the principle that e#erybody as to do the one ork suited to his o n nature.. =nd certainly! if - am not mistaken! such an admission as made by us. T=nd do not the natures of men and omen differ #ery much indeedK. =nd e shall replyA 8f course they do. Then e shall be asked! TWhether the tasks assigned to men and to omen should not be different! and such as are agreeable to their different naturesK. (ertainly they should. T&ut if so! ha#e you not fallen into a serious inconsistency in saying that men and omen! hose natures are so entirely different! ought to perform the same actionsK.MM What defence ill you make for us! my good )ir! against any one ho offers these objectionsK That is not an easy Nuestion to ans er hen asked suddenlyO and - shall and - do beg of you to dra out the case on our side.

These are the objections! Glaucon! and there are many others of a like kind! hich - foresa long agoO they made me afraid and reluctant to take in hand any la about the possession and nurture of omen and children. &y Ueus! he said! the problem to be sol#ed is anything but easy. Why yes! - said! but the fact is that hen a man is out of his depth! hether he has fallen into a little s imming bath or into midMocean! he has to s im all the same. %ery true. =nd must not e s im and try to reach the shoreA e ill hope that =rion.s dolphin or some other miraculous help may sa#e usK - suppose so! he said. Well then! let us see if any ay of escape can be found. We ackno ledgedMMdid e notK that different natures ought to ha#e different pursuits! and that men.s and omen.s natures are different. =nd no hat are e sayingKMMthat different natures ought to ha#e the same pursuits!MMthis is the inconsistency hich is charged upon us. Precisely. %erily! Glaucon! - said! glorious is the po er of the art of contradictionD Why do you say soK &ecause - think that many a man falls into the practice against his ill. When he thinks that he is reasoning he is really disputing! just because he cannot define and di#ide! and so kno that of hich he is speakingO and he ill pursue a merely #erbal opposition in the spirit of contention and not of fair discussion. Les! he replied! such is #ery often the caseO but hat has that to do ith us and our argumentK = great dealO for there is certainly a danger of our getting

unintentionally into a #erbal opposition. -n hat ayK Why! e #aliantly and pugnaciously insist upon the #erbal truth! that different natures ought to ha#e different pursuits! but e ne#er considered at all hat as the meaning of sameness or difference of nature! or hy e distinguished them hen e assigned different pursuits to different natures and the same to the same natures. Why! no! he said! that as ne#er considered by us. - saidA )uppose that by ay of illustration e ere to ask the Nuestion hether there is not an opposition in nature bet een bald men and hairy menO and if this is admitted by us! then! if bald men are cobblers! e should forbid the hairy men to be cobblers! and con#erselyK That ould be a jest! he said. Les! - said! a jestO and hyK because e ne#er meant hen e constructed the )tate! that the opposition of natures should extend to e#ery difference! but only to those differences hich affected the pursuit in hich the indi#idual is engagedO e should ha#e argued! for example! that a physician and one ho is in mind a physician may be said to ha#e the same nature. True. Whereas the physician and the carpenter ha#e different naturesK (ertainly. =nd if! - said! the male and female sex appear to differ in their fitness for any art or pursuit! e should say that such pursuit or art ought to be assigned to one or the other of themO but if the difference consists only in omen bearing and men begetting children! this does not amount to a proof that a oman differs from a man in respect of the sort of education she should recei#eO and e shall therefore continue to maintain that our guardians

and their i#es ought to ha#e the same pursuits. %ery true! he said. 9ext! e shall ask our opponent ho ! in reference to any of the pursuits or arts of ci#ic life! the nature of a oman differs from that of a manK That ill be Nuite fair. =nd perhaps he! like yourself! ill reply that to gi#e a sufficient ans er on the instant is not easyO but after a little reflection there is no difficulty. Les! perhaps. )uppose then that e in#ite him to accompany us in the argument! and then e may hope to sho him that there is nothing peculiar in the constitution of omen hich ould affect them in the administration of the )tate. &y all means. <et us say to himA (ome no ! and e ill ask you a NuestionAMM hen you spoke of a nature gifted or not gifted in any respect! did you mean to say that one man ill acNuire a thing easily! another ith difficultyO a little learning ill lead the one to disco#er a great dealO hereas the other! after much study and application! no sooner learns than he forgetsO or again! did you mean! that the one has a body hich is a good ser#ant to his mind! hile the body of the other is a hindrance to himKM ould not these be the sort of differences hich distinguish the man gifted by nature from the one ho is ungiftedK 9o one ill deny that. =nd can you mention any pursuit of mankind in hich the male sex has not all these gifts and Nualities in a higher degree than the femaleK 9eed - aste time in speaking of the art of ea#ing! and the management of pancakes and preser#es! in hich omankind does really appear to be great! and in hich for her to be beaten

by a man is of all things the most absurdK Lou are Nuite right! he replied! in maintaining the general inferiority of the female sexA although many omen are in many things superior to many men! yet on the hole hat you say is true. =nd if so! my friend! - said! there is no special faculty of administration in a state hich a oman has because she is a oman! or hich a man has by #irtue of his sex! but the gifts of nature are alike diffused in bothO all the pursuits of men are the pursuits of omen also! but in all of them a oman is inferior to a man. %ery true. Then are e to impose all our enactments on men and none of them on omenK That ill ne#er do. 8ne oman has a gift of healing! another notO one is a musician! and another has no music in her natureK %ery true. =nd one oman has a turn for gymnastic and military exercises! and another is un arlike and hates gymnasticsK (ertainly. =nd one oman is a philosopher! and another is an enemy of philosophyO one has spirit! and another is ithout spiritK That is also true. Then one oman ill ha#e the temper of a guardian! and another not. Was not the selection of the male guardians determined by differences of this sortK Les.

;en and omen alike possess the Nualities hich make a guardianO they differ only in their comparati#e strength or eakness. 8b#iously. =nd those omen ho ha#e such Nualities are to be selected as the companions and colleagues of men ho ha#e similar Nualities and hom they resemble in capacity and in characterK %ery true. =nd ought not the same natures to ha#e the same pursuitsK They ought. Then! as e ere saying before! there is nothing unnatural in assigning music and gymnastic to the i#es of the guardiansMM to that point e come round again. (ertainly not. The la hich e then enacted as agreeable to nature! and therefore not an impossibility or mere aspirationO and the contrary practice! hich pre#ails at present! is in reality a #iolation of nature. That appears to be true. We had to consider! first! hether our proposals ere possible! and secondly hether they ere the most beneficialK Les. =nd the possibility has been ackno ledgedK Les. The #ery great benefit has next to be establishedK Puite so.

Lou ill admit that the same education hich makes a man a good guardian ill make a oman a good guardianO for their original nature is the sameK Les. - should like to ask you a Nuestion. What is itK Would you say that all men are eNual in excellence! or is one man better than anotherK The latter. =nd in the common ealth hich e ere founding do you concei#e the guardians ho ha#e been brought up on our model system to be more perfect men! or the cobblers hose education has been cobblingK What a ridiculous NuestionD Lou ha#e ans ered me! - repliedA Well! and may e not further say that our guardians are the best of our citi7ensK &y far the best. =nd ill not their i#es be the best omenK Les! by far the best. =nd can there be anything better for the interests of the )tate than that the men and omen of a )tate should be as good as possibleK There can be nothing better. =nd this is hat the arts of music and gymnastic! hen present in such manner as e ha#e described! ill accomplishK (ertainly.

Then e ha#e made an enactment not only possible but in the highest degree beneficial to the )tateK True. Then let the i#es of our guardians strip! for their #irtue ill be their robe! and let them share in the toils of ar and the defence of their countryO only in the distribution of labours the lighter are to be assigned to the omen! ho are the eaker natures! but in other respects their duties are to be the same. =nd as for the man ho laughs at naked omen exercising their bodies from the best of moti#es! in his laughter he is plucking = fruit of unripe isdom! and he himself is ignorant of hat he is laughing at! or hat he is aboutOMMfor that is! and e#er ill be! the best of sayings! That the useful is the noble and the hurtful is the base. %ery true. 'ere! then! is one difficulty in our la about omen! hich e may say that e ha#e no escapedO the a#e has not s allo ed us up ali#e for enacting that the guardians of either sex should ha#e all their pursuits in commonO to the utility and also to the possibility of this arrangement the consistency of the argument ith itself bears itness. Les! that as a mighty a#e hich you ha#e escaped. Les! - said! but a greater is comingO you ill of this hen you see the next. Go onO let me see. The la ! - said! hich is the seNuel of this and of all that has preceded! is to the follo ing effect!MM.that the i#es of our guardians are to be common! and their children are to be common! and no parent is to kno his o n child! nor any child his parent..

Les! he said! that is a much greater a#e than the otherO and the possibility as ell as the utility of such a la are far more Nuestionable. - do not think! - said! that there can be any dispute about the #ery great utility of ha#ing i#es and children in commonO the possibility is Nuite another matter! and ill be #ery much disputed. - think that a good many doubts may be raised about both. Lou imply that the t o Nuestions must be combined! - replied. 9o - meant that you should admit the utilityO and in this ay! as - thoughtO - should escape from one of them! and then there ould remain only the possibility. &ut that little attempt is detected! and therefore you ill please to gi#e a defence of both. Well! - said! - submit to my fate. Let grant me a little fa#ourA let me feast my mind ith the dream as day dreamers are in the habit of feasting themsel#es hen they are alking aloneO for before they ha#e disco#ered any means of effecting their ishesMM that is a matter hich ne#er troubles themMMthey ould rather not tire themsel#es by thinking about possibilitiesO but assuming that hat they desire is already granted to them! they proceed ith their plan! and delight in detailing hat they mean to do hen their ish has come trueMMthat is a ay hich they ha#e of not doing much good to a capacity hich as ne#er good for much. 9o - myself am beginning to lose heart! and - should like! ith your permission! to pass o#er the Nuestion of possibility at present. =ssuming therefore the possibility of the proposal! - shall no proceed to enNuire ho the rulers ill carry out these arrangements! and - shall demonstrate that our plan! if executed! ill be of the greatest benefit to the )tate and to the guardians. $irst of all! then! if you ha#e no objection! - ill endea#our ith your help to consider the ad#antages of the measureO and hereafter the Nuestion of possibility. - ha#e no objectionO proceed.

$irst! - think that if our rulers and their auxiliaries are to be orthy of the name hich they bear! there must be illingness to obey in the one and the po er of command in the otherO the guardians must themsel#es obey the la s! and they must also imitate the spirit of them in any details hich are entrusted to their care. That is right! he said. Lou! - said! ho are their legislator! ha#ing selected the men! ill no select the omen and gi#e them to themOMMthey must be as far as possible of like natures ith themO and they must li#e in common houses and meet at common meals! 9one of them ill ha#e anything specially his or her o nO they ill be together! and ill be brought up together! and ill associate at gymnastic exercises. =nd so they ill be dra n by a necessity of their natures to ha#e intercourse ith each otherMMnecessity is not too strong a ord! - thinkK Les! he saidOMMnecessity! not geometrical! but another sort of necessity hich lo#ers kno ! and hich is far more con#incing and constraining to the mass of mankind. True! - saidO and this! Glaucon! like all the rest! must proceed after an orderly fashionO in a city of the blessed! licentiousness is an unholy thing hich the rulers ill forbid. Les! he said! and it ought not to be permitted. Then clearly the next thing ill be to make matrimony sacred in the highest degree! and hat is most beneficial ill be deemed sacredK Exactly. =nd ho can marriages be made most beneficialKMMthat is a Nuestion hich - put to you! because - see in your house dogs for hunting! and of the nobler sort of birds not a fe . 9o ! - beseech you! do tell me! ha#e you e#er attended to their pairing and breedingK -n hat particularsK

Why! in the first place! although they are all of a good sort! are not some better than othersK True. =nd do you breed from them all indifferently! or do you take care to breed from the best onlyK $rom the best. =nd do you take the oldest or the youngest! or only those of ripe ageK - choose only those of ripe age. =nd if care as not taken in the breeding! your dogs and birds ould greatly deteriorateK (ertainly. =nd the same of horses and animals in generalK :ndoubtedly. Good hea#ensD my dear friend! - said! hat consummate skill ill our rulers need if the same principle holds of the human speciesD (ertainly! the same principle holdsO but hy does this in#ol#e any particular skillK &ecause! - said! our rulers ill often ha#e to practise upon the body corporate ith medicines. 9o you kno that hen patients do not reNuire medicines! but ha#e only to be put under a regimen! the inferior sort of practitioner is deemed to be good enoughO but hen medicine has to be gi#en! then the doctor should be more of a man. That is Nuite true! he saidO but to hat are you alludingK - mean! - replied! that our rulers ill find a considerable dose of falsehood and deceit necessary for the good of their subjectsA

e ere saying that the use of all these things regarded as medicines might be of ad#antage. =nd e ere #ery right. =nd this la ful use of them seems likely to be often needed in the regulations of marriages and births. 'o soK Why! - said! the principle has been already laid do n that the best of either sex should be united ith the best as often! and the inferior ith the inferior! as seldom as possibleO and that they should rear the offspring of the one sort of union! but not of the other! if the flock is to be maintained in firstMrate condition. 9o these goings on must be a secret hich the rulers only kno ! or there ill be a further danger of our herd! as the guardians may be termed! breaking out into rebellion. %ery true. 'ad e not better appoint certain festi#als at hich e ill bring together the brides and bridegrooms! and sacrifices ill be offered and suitable hymeneal songs composed by our poetsA the number of eddings is a matter hich must be left to the discretion of the rulers! hose aim ill be to preser#e the a#erage of populationK There are many other things hich they ill ha#e to consider! such as the effects of ars and diseases and any similar agencies! in order as far as this is possible to pre#ent the )tate from becoming either too large or too small. (ertainly! he replied. We shall ha#e to in#ent some ingenious kind of lots hich the less orthy may dra on each occasion of our bringing them together! and then they ill accuse their o n illMluck and not the rulers. To be sure! he said. =nd - think that our bra#er and better youth! besides their other

honours and re ards! might ha#e greater facilities of intercourse ith omen gi#en themO their bra#ery ill be a reason! and such fathers ought to ha#e as many sons as possible. True. =nd the proper officers! hether male or female or both! for offices are to be held by omen as ell as by menMM LesMM The proper officers ill take the offspring of the good parents to the pen or fold! and there they ill deposit them ith certain nurses ho d ell in a separate NuarterO but the offspring of the inferior! or of the better hen they chance to be deformed! ill be put a ay in some mysterious! unkno n place! as they should be. Les! he said! that must be done if the breed of the guardians is to be kept pure. They ill pro#ide for their nurture! and ill bring the mothers to the fold hen they are full of milk! taking the greatest possible care that no mother recogni7es her o n childO and other etMnurses may be engaged if more are reNuired. (are ill also be taken that the process of suckling shall not be protracted too longO and the mothers ill ha#e no getting up at night or other trouble! but ill hand o#er all this sort of thing to the nurses and attendants. Lou suppose the i#es of our guardians to ha#e a fine easy time of it hen they are ha#ing children. Why! said -! and so they ought. <et us! ho e#er! proceed ith our scheme. We ere saying that the parents should be in the prime of lifeK %ery true. =nd hat is the prime of lifeK ;ay it not be defined as a period of about t enty years in a oman.s life! and thirty in a man.sK Which years do you mean to includeK

= oman! - said! at t enty years of age may begin to bear children to the )tate! and continue to bear them until fortyO a man may begin at fi#eMandMt enty! hen he has passed the point at hich the pulse of life beats Nuickest! and continue to beget children until he be fiftyMfi#e. (ertainly! he said! both in men and omen those years are the prime of physical as ell as of intellectual #igour. =ny one abo#e or belo the prescribed ages ho takes part in the public hymeneals shall be said to ha#e done an unholy and unrighteous thingO the child of hich he is the father! if it steals into life! ill ha#e been concei#ed under auspices #ery unlike the sacrifices and prayers! hich at each hymeneal priestesses and priest and the hole city ill offer! that the ne generation may be better and more useful than their good and useful parents! hereas his child ill be the offspring of darkness and strange lust. %ery true! he replied. =nd the same la ill apply to any one of those ithin the prescribed age ho forms a connection ith any oman in the prime of life ithout the sanction of the rulersO for e shall say that he is raising up a bastard to the )tate! uncertified and unconsecrated. %ery true! he replied. This applies! ho e#er! only to those ho are ithin the specified ageA after that e allo them to range at ill! except that a man may not marry his daughter or his daughter.s daughter! or his mother or his mother.s motherO and omen! on the other hand! are prohibited from marrying their sons or fathers! or son.s son or father.s father! and so on in either direction. =nd e grant all this! accompanying the permission ith strict orders to pre#ent any embryo hich may come into being from seeing the lightO and if any force a ay to the birth! the parents must understand that the offspring of such an union cannot be maintained! and arrange accordingly.

That also! he said! is a reasonable proposition. &ut ho kno ho are fathers and daughters! and so onK

ill they

They ill ne#er kno . The ay ill be thisAMMdating from the day of the hymeneal! the bridegroom ho as then married ill call all the male children ho are born in the se#enth and tenth month after ards his sons! and the female children his daughters! and they ill call him father! and he ill call their children his grandchildren! and they ill call the elder generation grandfathers and grandmothers. =ll ho ere begotten at the time hen their fathers and mothers came together ill be called their brothers and sisters! and these! as - as saying! ill be forbidden to interMmarry. This! ho e#er! is not to be understood as an absolute prohibition of the marriage of brothers and sistersO if the lot fa#ours them! and they recei#e the sanction of the Pythian oracle! the la ill allo them. Puite right! he replied. )uch is the scheme! Glaucon! according to hich the guardians of our )tate are to ha#e their i#es and families in common. =nd no you ould ha#e the argument sho that this community is consistent ith the rest of our polity! and also that nothing can be betterMM ould you notK Les! certainly. )hall e try to find a common basis by asking of oursel#es hat ought to be the chief aim of the legislator in making la s and in the organi7ation of a )tate!MM hat is the greatest - good! and hat is the greatest e#il! and then consider hether our pre#ious description has the stamp of the good or of the e#ilK &y all means. (an there be any greater e#il than discord and distraction and plurality here unity ought to reignK or any greater good than the bond of unityK There cannot.

=nd there is unity here there is community of pleasures and painsMM here all the citi7ens are glad or grie#ed on the same occasions of joy and sorro K 9o doubt. LesO and here there is no common but only pri#ate feeling a )tate is disorgani7edMM hen you ha#e one half of the orld triumphing and the other plunged in grief at the same e#ents happening to the city or the citi7ensK (ertainly. )uch differences commonly originate in a disagreement about the use of the terms Tmine. and Tnot mine!. This. and Tnot his.. Exactly so. =nd is not that the bestMordered )tate in hich the greatest number of persons apply the terms Tmine. and Tnot mine. in the same ay to the same thingK Puite true. 8r that again hich most nearly approaches to the condition of the indi#idualMMas in the body! hen but a finger of one of us is hurt! the hole frame! dra n to ards the soul as a center and forming one kingdom under the ruling po er therein! feels the hurt and sympathi7es all together ith the part affected! and e say that the man has a pain in his fingerO and the same expression is used about any other part of the body! hich has a sensation of pain at suffering or of pleasure at the alle#iation of suffering. %ery true! he repliedO and - agree ith you that in the bestMordered )tate there is the nearest approach to this common feeling hich you describe. Then hen any one of the citi7ens experiences any good or e#il! the hole )tate ill make his case their o n! and ill either rejoice or sorro ith himK

Les! he said! that is hat ill happen in a ellMordered )tate. -t ill no be time! - said! for us to return to our )tate and see hether this or some other form is most in accordance ith these fundamental principles. %ery good. 8ur )tate like e#ery other has rulers and subjectsK True. =ll of hom ill call one another citi7ensK 8f course. &ut is there not another name hich people gi#e to their rulers in other )tatesK Generally they call them masters! but in democratic )tates they simply call them rulers. =nd in our )tate hat other name besides that of citi7ens do the people gi#e the rulersK They are called sa#iours and helpers! he replied. =nd hat do the rulers call the peopleK Their maintainers and fosterMfathers. =nd hat do they call them in other )tatesK )la#es. =nd hat do the rulers call one another in other )tatesK $ello Mrulers.

=nd hat in oursK $ello Mguardians. "id you e#er kno an example in any other )tate of a ruler ho ould speak of one of his colleagues as his friend and of another as not being his friendK Les! #ery often. =nd the friend he regards and describes as one in hom he has an interest! and the other as a stranger in hom he has no interestK Exactly. &ut ould any of your guardians think or speak of any other guardian as a strangerK (ertainly he ould notO for e#ery one hom they meet ill be regarded by them either as a brother or sister! or father or mother! or son or daughter! or as the child or parent of those ho are thus connected ith him. (apital! - saidO but let me ask you once moreA )hall they be a family in name onlyO or shall they in all their actions be true to the nameK $or example! in the use of the ord Tfather!. ould the care of a father be implied and the filial re#erence and duty and obedience to him hich the la commandsO and is the #iolator of these duties to be regarded as an impious and unrighteous person ho is not likely to recei#e much good either at the hands of God or of manK =re these to be or not to be the strains hich the children ill hear repeated in their ears by all the citi7ens about those ho are intimated to them to be their parents and the rest of their kinsfolkK These! he said! and none otherO for hat can be more ridiculous than for them to utter the names of family ties ith the lips only and not to act in the spirit of themK Then in our city the language of harmony and concord ill be more often beard than in any other. =s - as describing before! hen any

one is ell or ill! the uni#ersal ord ill be ith me Tit is ell. or Tit is ill.. ;ost true. =nd agreeably to this mode of thinking and speaking! ere e not saying that they ill ha#e their pleasures and pains in commonK Les! and so they ill. =nd they ill ha#e a common interest in the same thing hich they ill alike call Tmy o n!. and ha#ing this common interest they ill ha#e a common feeling of pleasure and painK Les! far more so than in other )tates. =nd the reason of this! o#er and abo#e the general constitution of the )tate! ill be that the guardians ill ha#e a community of omen and childrenK That ill be the chief reason. =nd this unity of feeling e admitted to be the greatest good! as as implied in our o n comparison of a ellMordered )tate to the relation of the body and the members! hen affected by pleasure or painK That e ackno ledged! and #ery rightly. Then the community of i#es and children among our citi7ens is clearly the source of the greatest good to the )tateK (ertainly. =nd this agrees ith the other principle hich e ere affirming!MM that the guardians ere not to ha#e houses or lands or any other propertyO their pay as to be their food! hich they ere to recei#e from the other citi7ens! and they ere to ha#e no pri#ate expensesO for e intended them to preser#e their true character of guardians.

Right! he replied. &oth the community of property and the community of families! as - am saying! tend to make them more truly guardiansO they ill not tear the city in pieces by differing about Tmine. and Tnot mineO. each man dragging any acNuisition hich he has made into a separate house of his o n! here he has a separate ife and children and pri#ate pleasures and painsO but all ill be affected as far as may be by the same pleasures and pains because they are all of one opinion about hat is near and dear to them! and therefore they all tend to ards a common end. (ertainly! he replied. =nd as they ha#e nothing but their persons hich they can call their o n! suits and complaints ill ha#e no existence among themO they ill be deli#ered from all those Nuarrels of hich money or children or relations are the occasion. 8f course they ill. 9either ill trials for assault or insult e#er be likely to occur among them. $or that eNuals should defend themsel#es against eNuals e shall maintain to be honourable and rightO e shall make the protection of the person a matter of necessity. That is good! he said. LesO and there is a further good in the la O #i7. that if a man has a Nuarrel ith another he ill satisfy his resentment then and there! and not proceed to more dangerous lengths. (ertainly. To the elder shall be assigned the duty of ruling and chastising the younger. (learly. 9or can there be a doubt that the younger ill not strike or do any

other #iolence to an elder! unless the magistrates command himO nor ill he slight him in any ay. $or there are t o guardians! shame and fear! mighty to pre#ent himA shame! hich makes men refrain from laying hands on those ho are to them in the relation of parentsO fear! that the injured one ill be succoured by the others ho are his brothers! sons! one i fathers. That is true! he replied. Then in e#ery ay the la s ill help the citi7ens to keep the peace ith one anotherK Les! there ill be no ant of peace. =nd as the guardians ill ne#er Nuarrel among themsel#es there ill be no danger of the rest of the city being di#ided either against them or against one another. 9one hate#er. - hardly like e#en to mention the little meannesses of hich they ill be rid! for they are beneath noticeA such! for example! as the flattery of the rich by the poor! and all the pains and pangs hich men experience in bringing up a family! and in finding money to buy necessaries for their household! borro ing and then repudiating! getting ho they can! and gi#ing the money into the hands of omen and sla#es to keepMMthe many e#ils of so many kinds hich people suffer in this ay are mean enough and ob#ious enough! and not orth speaking of. Les! he said! a man has no need of eyes in order to percei#e that. =nd from all these e#ils they ill be deli#ered! and their life ill be blessed as the life of 8lympic #ictors and yet more blessed. 'o soK The 8lympic #ictor! - said! is deemed happy in recei#ing a part only of the blessedness hich is secured to our citi7ens! ho ha#e on a more glorious #ictory and ha#e a more complete

maintenance at the public cost. $or the #ictory hich they ha#e on is the sal#ation of the hole )tateO and the cro n ith hich they and their children are cro ned is the fulness of all that life needsO they recei#e re ards from the hands of their country hile li#ing! and after death ha#e an honourable burial. Les! he said! and glorious re ards they are. "o you remember! - said! ho in the course of the pre#ious discussion some one ho shall be nameless accused us of making our guardians unhappyMM they had nothing and might ha#e possessed all thingsMto hom e replied that! if an occasion offered! e might perhaps hereafter consider this Nuestion! but that! as at present ad#ised! e ould make our guardians truly guardians! and that e ere fashioning the )tate ith a #ie to the greatest happiness! not of any particular class! but of the holeK Les! - remember. =nd hat do you say! no that the life of our protectors is made out to be far better and nobler than that of 8lympic #ictorsMM is the life of shoemakers! or any other artisans! or of husbandmen! to be compared ith itK (ertainly not. =t the same time - ought here to repeat hat - ha#e said else here! that if any of our guardians shall try to be happy in such a manner that he ill cease to be a guardian! and is not content ith this safe and harmonious life! hich! in our judgment! is of all li#es the best! but infatuated by some youthful conceit of happiness hich gets up into his head shall seek to appropriate the hole )tate to himself! then he ill ha#e to learn ho isely 'esiod spoke! hen he said! Thalf is more than the hole.. -f he ere to consult me! - should say to himA )tay here you are! hen you ha#e the offer of such a life. Lou agree then! - said! that men and omen are to ha#e a common ay

of life such as e ha#e describedMMcommon education! common childrenO and they are to atch o#er the citi7ens in common hether abiding in the city or going out to arO they are to keep atch together! and to hunt together like dogsO and al ays and in all things! as far as they are able! omen are to share ith the menK =nd in so doing they ill do hat is best! and ill not #iolate! but preser#e the natural relation of the sexes. - agree ith you! he replied. The enNuiry! - said! has yet to be made! hether such a community be found possibleMMas among other animals! so also among menMM and if possible! in hat ay possibleK Lou ha#e anticipated the Nuestion hich - as about to suggest. There is no difficulty! - said! in seeing ho on by them. 'o K Why! of course they ill go on expeditions togetherO and ill take ith them any of their children ho are strong enough! that! after the manner of the artisan.s child! they may look on at the ork hich they ill ha#e to do hen they are gro n upO and besides looking on they ill ha#e to help and be of use in ar! and to ait upon their fathers and mothers. "id you ne#er obser#e in the arts ho the potters. boys look on and help! long before they touch the heelK Les! - ha#e. =nd shall potters be more careful in educating their children and in gi#ing them the opportunity of seeing and practising their duties than our guardians ill beK The idea is ridiculous! he said. There is also the effect on the parents! ith hom! as ith other animals! the presence of their young ones ill be the greatest incenti#e to #alour. ar ill be carried

That is Nuite true! )ocratesO and yet if they are defeated! hich may often happen in ar! ho great the danger isD the children ill be lost as ell as their parents! and the )tate ill ne#er reco#er. True! - saidO but ould you ne#er allo them to run any riskK - am far from saying that. Well! but if they are e#er to run a risk should they not do so on some occasion hen! if they escape disaster! they ill be the better for itK (learly. Whether the future soldiers do or do not see ar in the days of their youth is a #ery important matter! for the sake of hich some risk may fairly be incurred. Les! #ery important. This then must be our first step!MMto make our children spectators of arO but e must also contri#e that they shall be secured against dangerO then all ill be ell. True. Their parents may be supposed not to be blind to the risks of ar! but to kno ! as far as human foresight can! hat expeditions are safe and hat dangerousK That may be assumed. =nd they ill take them on the safe expeditions and be cautious about the dangerous onesK True. =nd they ill place them under the command of experienced #eterans ho ill be their leaders and teachersK

%ery properly. )till! the dangers of ar cannot be al ays foreseenO there is a good deal of chance about themK True. Then against such chances the children must be at once furnished ith ings! in order that in the hour of need they may fly a ay and escape. What do you meanK he said. - mean that e must mount them on horses in their earliest youth! and hen they ha#e learnt to ride! take them on horseback to see arA the horses must be spirited and arlike! but the most tractable and yet the s iftest that can be had. -n this ay they ill get an excellent #ie of hat is hereafter to be their o n businessO and if there is danger they ha#e only to follo their elder leaders and escape. - belie#e that you are right! he said. 9ext! as to arO hat are to be the relations of your soldiers to one another and to their enemiesK - should be inclined to propose that the soldier ho lea#es his rank or thro s a ay his arms! or is guilty of any other act of co ardice! should be degraded into the rank of a husbandman or artisan. What do you thinkK &y all means! - should say. =nd he ho allo s himself to be taken prisoner may as ell be made a present of to his enemiesO he is their la ful prey! and let them do hat they like ith him. (ertainly. &ut the hero ho has distinguished himself! hat shall be done to himK -n the first place! he shall recei#e honour in the army from his youthful comradesO e#ery one of them in succession shall cro n him.

What do you sayK - appro#e. =nd hat do you say to his recei#ing the right hand of fello shipK To that too! - agree. &ut you ill hardly agree to my next proposal. What is your proposalK That he should kiss and be kissed by them. ;ost certainly! and - should be disposed to go further! and sayA <et no one hom he has a mind to kiss refuse to be kissed by him hile the expedition lasts. )o that if there be a lo#er in the army! hether his lo#e be youth or maiden! he may be more eager to in the pri7e of #alour. (apital! - said. That the bra#e man is to ha#e more i#es than others has been already determinedA and he is to ha#e first choices in such matters more than others! in order that he may ha#e as many children as possibleK =greed. =gain! there is another manner in hich! according to 'omer! bra#e youths should be honouredO for he tells ho =jax! after he had distinguished himself in battle! as re arded ith long chines! hich seems to be a compliment appropriate to a hero in the flo er of his age! being not only a tribute of honour but also a #ery strengthening thing. ;ost true! he said. Then in this! - said! 'omer shall be our teacherO and e too! at sacrifices and on the like occasions! ill honour the bra#e according to the measure of their #alour! hether men or omen! ith hymns and those other distinctions hich e ere mentioningO also ith

seats of precedence! and meats and full cupsO and in honouring them! e shall be at the same time training them. That! he replied! is excellent. Les! - saidO and hen a man dies gloriously in ar shall e not say! in the first place! that he is of the golden raceK To be sure. 9ay! ha#e e not the authority of 'esiod for affirming that hen they are dead They are holy angels upon the earth! authors of good! a#erters of e#il! the guardians of speechMgifted menK LesO and e accept his authority. We must learn of the god ho e are to order the sepulture of di#ine and heroic personages! and hat is to be their special distinction and e must do as he bidsK &y all means. =nd in ages to come e ill re#erence them and knee. before their sepulchres as at the gra#es of heroes. =nd not only they but any ho are deemed preMeminently good! hether they die from age! or in any other ay! shall be admitted to the same honours. That is #ery right! he said. 9ext! ho shall our soldiers treat their enemiesK What about thisK -n hat respect do you meanK $irst of all! in regard to sla#eryK "o you think it right that 'ellenes should ensla#e 'ellenic )tates! or allo others to ensla#e them! if they can helpK )hould not their custom be to spare them!

considering the danger hich there is that the hole race may one day fall under the yoke of the barbariansK To spare them is infinitely better. Then no 'ellene should be o ned by them as a sla#eO that is a rule hich they ill obser#e and ad#ise the other 'ellenes to obser#e. (ertainly! he saidO they ill in this ay be united against the barbarians and ill keep their hands off one another. 9ext as to the slainO ought the conNuerors! - said! to take anything but their armourK "oes not the practice of despoiling an enemy afford an excuse for not facing the battleK (o ards skulk about the dead! pretending that they are fulfilling a duty! and many an army before no has been lost from this lo#e of plunder. %ery true. =nd is there not illiberality and a#arice in robbing a corpse! and also a degree of meanness and omanishness in making an enemy of the dead body hen the real enemy has flo n a ay and left only his fighting gear behind him!MMis not this rather like a dog ho cannot get at his assailant! Nuarrelling ith the stones hich strike him insteadK %ery like a dog! he said. Then e must abstain from spoiling the dead or hindering their burialK Les! he replied! e most certainly must. 9either shall e offer up arms at the temples of the gods! least of all the arms of 'ellenes! if e care to maintain good feeling ith other 'ellenesO and! indeed! e ha#e reason to fear that the offering of spoils taken from kinsmen may be a pollution unless commanded by the god himselfK %ery true.

=gain! as to the de#astation of 'ellenic territory or the burning of houses! hat is to be the practiceK ;ay - ha#e the pleasure! he said! of hearing your opinionK &oth should be forbidden! in my judgmentO - ould take the annual produce and no more. )hall - tell you hyK Pray do. Why! you see! there is a difference in the names Tdiscord. and T ar!. and - imagine that there is also a difference in their naturesO the one is expressi#e of hat is internal and domestic! the other of hat is external and foreignO and the first of the t o is termed discord! and only the second! ar. That is a #ery proper distinction! he replied. =nd may - not obser#e ith eNual propriety that the 'ellenic race is all united together by ties of blood and friendship! and alien and strange to the barbariansK %ery good! he said. =nd therefore hen 'ellenes fight ith barbarians and barbarians ith 'ellenes! they ill be described by us as being at ar hen they fight! and by nature enemies! and this kind of antagonism should be called arO but hen 'ellenes fight ith one another e shall say that 'ellas is then in a state of disorder and discord! they being by nature friends and such enmity is to be called discord. - agree. (onsider then! - said! hen that hich e ha#e ackno ledged to be discord occurs! and a city is di#ided! if both parties destroy the lands and burn the houses of one another! ho icked does the strife appearD 9o true lo#er of his country ould bring himself to tear in pieces his o n nurse and motherA There might be reason in the conNueror depri#ing the conNuered of their har#est! but still they ould ha#e the idea of peace in their hearts and ould not mean to go

on fighting for e#er. Les! he said! that is a better temper than the other. =nd ill not the city! hich you are founding! be an 'ellenic cityK -t ought to be! he replied. Then ill not the citi7ens be good and ci#ili7edK Les! #ery ci#ili7ed. =nd ill they not be lo#ers of 'ellas! and think of 'ellas as their o n land! and share in the common templesK ;ost certainly. =nd any difference hich arises among them ill be regarded by them as discord onlyMMa Nuarrel among friends! hich is not to be called a arK (ertainly not. Then they ill Nuarrel as those ho intend some day to be reconciledK (ertainly. They ill use friendly correction! but ill not ensla#e or destroy their opponentsO they ill be correctors! not enemiesK /ust so. =nd as they are 'ellenes themsel#es they ill not de#astate 'ellas! nor ill they burn houses! not e#en suppose that the hole population of a cityMMmen! omen! and childrenMMare eNually their enemies! for they kno that the guilt of ar is al ays confined to a fe persons and that the many are their friends. =nd for all these reasons they ill be un illing to aste their lands and ra7e their housesO their enmity to them ill only last until the many innocent sufferers ha#e compelled the guilty fe to gi#e satisfactionK

- agree! he said! that our citi7ens should thus deal ith their 'ellenic enemiesO and ith barbarians as the 'ellenes no deal ith one another. Then let us enact this la also for our guardiansAMthat they are neither to de#astate the lands of 'ellenes nor to burn their houses. =greedO and e may agree also in thinking that these! all our pre#ious enactments! are #ery good. &ut still - must say! )ocrates! that if you are allo ed to go on in this ay you ill entirely forget the other Nuestion hich at the commencement of this discussion you thrust asideAMM -s such an order of things possible! and ho ! if at allK $or - am Nuite ready to ackno ledge that the plan hich you propose! if only feasible! ould do all sorts of good to the )tate. - ill add! hat you ha#e omitted! that your citi7ens ill be the bra#est of arriors! and ill ne#er lea#e their ranks! for they ill all kno one another! and each ill call the other father! brother! sonO and if you suppose the omen to join their armies! hether in the same rank or in the rear! either as a terror to the enemy! or as auxiliaries in case of need! - kno that they ill then be absolutely in#incibleO and there are many domestic tic ad#antages hich might also be mentioned and hich - also fully ackno ledgeA but! as - admit all these ad#antages and as many more as you please! if only this )tate of yours ere to come into existence! e need say no more about themO assuming then the existence of the )tate! let us no turn to the Nuestion of possibility and ays and meansMM the rest may be left. -f - loiter for a moment! you instantly make a raid upon me! - said! and ha#e no mercyO - ha#e hardly escaped the first and second a#es! and you seem not to be a are that you are no bringing upon me the third! hich is the greatest and hea#iest. When you ha#e seen and heard the third a#e! - think you be more considerate and ill ackno ledge that some fear and hesitation as natural respecting a proposal so extraordinary as that hich - ha#e no to state and in#estigate. The more appeals of this sort hich you make! he said! the more

determined are e that you shall tell us ho such a )tate is possibleA speak out and at once. <et me begin by reminding you that e found our ay hither in the search after justice and injustice. True! he repliedO but hat of thatK - as only going to ask hether! if e ha#e disco#ered them! e are to reNuire that the just man should in nothing fail of absolute justiceO or may e be satisfied ith an approximation! and the attainment in him of a higher degree of justice than is to be found in other menK The approximation ill be enough. We are enNuiring into the nature of absolute justice and into the character of the perfectly just! and into injustice and the perfectly unjust! that e might ha#e an ideal. We ere to look at these in order that e might judge of our o n happiness and unhappiness according to the standard hich they exhibited and the degree in hich e resembled them! but not ith any #ie of sho ing that they could exist in fact. True! he said. Would a painter be any the orse because! after ha#ing delineated ith consummate art an ideal of a perfectly beautiful man! he as unable to sho that any such man could e#er ha#e existedK 'e ould be none the orse. Well! and ere e not creating an ideal of a perfect )tateK To be sure. =nd is our theory a orse theory because e are unable to pro#e the possibility of a city being ordered in the manner describedK )urely not! he replied.

That is the truth! - said. &ut if! at your reNuest! - am to try and sho ho and under hat conditions the possibility is highest! - must ask you! ha#ing this in #ie ! to repeat your former admissions. What admissionsK - ant to kno hether ideals are e#er fully realised in languageK "oes not the ord express more than the fact! and must not the actual! hate#er a man may think! al ays! in the nature of things! fall short of the truthK What do you sayK - agree. Then you must not insist on my pro#ing that the actual )tate ill in e#ery respect coincide ith the idealA if e are only able to disco#er ho a city may be go#erned nearly as e proposed! you ill admit that e ha#e disco#ered the possibility hich you demandO and ill be contented. - am sure that - should be contentedMM ill not youK Les! - ill. <et me next endea#our to sho hat is that fault in )tates hich is the cause of their present maladministration! and hat is the least change hich ill enable a )tate to pass into the truer formO and let the change! if possible! be of one thing only! or if not! of t oO at any rate! let the changes be as fe and slight as possible. (ertainly! he replied. - think! - said! that there might be a reform of the )tate if only one change ere made! hich is not a slight or easy though still a possible one. What is itK he said. 9o then! - said! - go to meet that hich - liken to the greatest of the a#esO yet shall the ord be spoken! e#en though the a#e break and dro n me in laughter and dishonourO and do you mark my ords.

Proceed. - saidA :ntil philosophers are kings! or the kings and princes of this orld ha#e the spirit and po er of philosophy! and political greatness and isdom meet in one! and those commoner natures ho pursue either to the exclusion of the other are compelled to stand aside! cities ill ne#er ha#e rest from their e#ils!MM nor the human race! as - belie#e!MMand then only ill this our )tate ha#e a possibility of life and behold the light of day. )uch as the thought! my dear Glaucon! hich - ould fain ha#e uttered if it had not seemed too extra#agantO for to be con#inced that in no other )tate can there be happiness pri#ate or public is indeed a hard thing. )ocrates! hat do you meanK - ould ha#e you consider that the ord hich you ha#e uttered is one at hich numerous persons! and #ery respectable persons too! in a figure pulling off their coats all in a moment! and sei7ing any eapon that comes to hand! ill run at you might and main! before you kno here you are! intending to do hea#en kno s hatO and if you don.t prepare an ans er! and put yourself in motion! you ill be prepared by their fine its!. and no mistake. Lou got me into the scrape! - said. =nd - as Nuite rightO ho e#er! - ill do all - can to get you out of itO but - can only gi#e you goodM ill and good ad#ice! and! perhaps! - may be able to fit ans ers to your Nuestions better than anotherMM that is all. =nd no ! ha#ing such an auxiliary! you must do your best to sho the unbelie#ers that you are right. - ought to try! - said! since you offer me such in#aluable assistance. =nd - think that! if there is to be a chance of our escaping! e must explain to them hom e mean hen e say that philosophers are to rule in the )tateO then e shall be able to defend oursel#esA There ill be disco#ered to be some natures ho ought to study philosophy and to be leaders in the )tateO and others ho are not born to be philosophers! and are meant to be follo ers rather than leaders.

Then no for a definition! he said. $ollo me! - said! and - hope that - may in some ay or other be able to gi#e you a satisfactory explanation. Proceed. - dare say that you remember! and therefore - need not remind you! that a lo#er! if lie is orthy of the name! ought to sho his lo#e! not to some one part of that hich he lo#es! but to the hole. - really do not understand! and therefore beg of you to assist my memory. =nother person! - said! might fairly reply as you doO but a man of pleasure like yourself ought to kno that all ho are in the flo er of youth do someho or other raise a pang or emotion in a lo#er.s breast! and are thought by him to be orthy of his affectionate regards. -s not this a ay hich you ha#e ith the fairA one has a snub nose! and you praise his charming faceO the hookMnose of another has! you say! a royal lookO hile he ho is neither snub nor hooked has the grace of regularityA the dark #isage is manly! the fair are children of the godsO and as to the s eet Thoney pale!. as they are called! hat is the #ery name but the in#ention of a lo#er ho talks in diminuti#es! and is not ad#erse to paleness if appearing on the cheek of youthK -n a ord! there is no excuse hich you ill not make! and nothing hich you ill not say! in order not to lose a single flo er that blooms in the springMtime of youth. -f you make me an authority in matters of lo#e! for the sake of the argument! - assent. =nd hat do you say of lo#ers of ineK "o you not see them doing the sameK They are glad of any pretext of drinking any ine. %ery good. =nd the same is true of ambitious menO if they cannot command an army! they are illing to command a fileO and if they cannot be honoured

by really great and important persons! they are glad to be honoured by lesser and meaner people! but honour of some kind they must ha#e. Exactly. 8nce more let me askA "oes he ho desires any class of goods! desire the hole class or a part onlyK The hole. =nd may e not say of the philosopher that he is a lo#er! not of a part of isdom only! but of the holeK Les! of the hole. =nd he ho dislikes learnings! especially in youth! hen he has no po er of judging hat is good and hat is not! such an one e maintain not to be a philosopher or a lo#er of kno ledge! just as he ho refuses his food is not hungry! and may be said to ha#e a bad appetite and not a good oneK %ery true! he said. Whereas he ho has a taste for e#ery sort of kno ledge and ho is curious to learn and is ne#er satisfied! may be justly termed a philosopherK =m - not rightK Glaucon saidA -f curiosity makes a philosopher! you ill find many a strange being ill ha#e a title to the name. =ll the lo#ers of sights ha#e a delight in learning! and must therefore be included. ;usical amateurs! too! are a folk strangely out of place among philosophers! for they are the last persons in the orld ho ould come to anything like a philosophical discussion! if they could help! hile they run about at the "ionysiac festi#als as if they had let out their ears to hear e#ery chorusO hether the performance is in to n or countryMMthat makes no differenceMMthey are there. 9o are e to maintain that all these and any ho ha#e similar tastes! as ell as the professors of Nuite minor arts! are philosophersK (ertainly not! - repliedO they are only an imitation.

'e saidA Who then are the true philosophersK Those! - said! ho are lo#ers of the #ision of truth. That is also good! he saidO but - should like to kno hat you meanK

To another! - replied! - might ha#e a difficulty in explainingO but - am sure that you ill admit a proposition hich - am about to make. What is the propositionK That since beauty is the opposite of ugliness! they are t oK (ertainly. =nd inasmuch as they are t o! each of them is oneK True again. =nd of just and unjust! good and e#il! and of e#ery other class! the same remark holdsA taken singly! each of them oneO but from the #arious combinations of them ith actions and things and ith one another! they are seen in all sorts of lights and appear manyK %ery true. =nd this is the distinction hich - dra bet een the sightMlo#ing! artMlo#ing! practical class and those of hom - am speaking! and ho are alone orthy of the name of philosophers. 'o do you distinguish themK he said. The lo#ers of sounds and sights! - replied! are! as - concei#e! fond of fine tones and colours and forms and all the artificial products that are made out of them! but their mind is incapable of seeing or lo#ing absolute beauty. True! he replied.

$e are they ho are able to attain to the sight of this. %ery true. =nd he ho! ha#ing a sense of beautiful things has no sense of absolute beauty! or ho! if another lead him to a kno ledge of that beauty is unable to follo MMof such an one - ask! -s he a ake or in a dream onlyK ReflectA is not the dreamer! sleeping or aking! one ho likens dissimilar things! ho puts the copy in the place of the real objectK - should certainly say that such an one as dreaming. &ut take the case of the other! ho recognises the existence of absolute beauty and is able to distinguish the idea from the objects hich participate in the idea! neither putting the objects in the place of the idea nor the idea in the place of the objectsMM is he a dreamer! or is he a akeK 'e is ide a ake. =nd may e not say that the mind of the one ho kno s has kno ledge! and that the mind of the other! ho opines only! has opinion (ertainly. &ut suppose that the latter should Nuarrel ith us and dispute our statement! can e administer any soothing cordial or ad#ice to him! ithout re#ealing to him that there is sad disorder in his itsK We must certainly offer him some good ad#ice! he replied. (ome! then! and let us think of something to say to him. )hall e begin by assuring him that he is elcome to any kno ledge hich he may ha#e! and that e are rejoiced at his ha#ing itK &ut e should like to ask him a NuestionA "oes he ho has kno ledge kno something or nothingK >Lou must ans er for him.? - ans er that he kno s something.

)omething that is or is notK )omething that isO for ho can that hich is not e#er be kno nK =nd are e assured! after looking at the matter from many points of #ie ! that absolute being is or may be absolutely kno n! but that the utterly nonMexistent is utterly unkno nK 9othing can be more certain. Good. &ut if there be anything hich is of such a nature as to be and not to be! that ill ha#e a place intermediate bet een pure being and the absolute negation of beingK Les! bet een them. =nd! as kno ledge corresponded to being and ignorance of necessity to notMbeing! for that intermediate bet een being and notMbeing there has to be disco#ered a corresponding intermediate bet een ignorance and kno ledge! if there be suchK (ertainly. "o e admit the existence of opinionK :ndoubtedly. =s being the same ith kno ledge! or another facultyK =nother faculty. Then opinion and kno ledge ha#e to do ith different kinds of matter corresponding to this difference of facultiesK Les. =nd kno ledge is relati#e to being and kno s being. &ut before proceed further - ill make a di#ision. What di#isionK

- ill begin by placing faculties in a class by themsel#esA they are po ers in us! and in all other things! by hich e do as e do. )ight and hearing! for example! - should call faculties. 'a#e clearly explained the class hich - meanK Les! - Nuite understand. Then let me tell you my #ie about them. - do not see them! and therefore the distinctions of fire! colour! and the like! hich enable me to discern the differences of some things! do not apply to them. -n speaking of a faculty - think only of its sphere and its resultO and that hich has the same sphere and the same result - call the same faculty! but that hich has another sphere and another result - call different. Would that be your ay of speakingK Les. =nd ill you be so #ery good as to ans er one more NuestionK Would you say that kno ledge is a faculty! or in hat class ould you place itK (ertainly kno ledge is a faculty! and the mightiest of all faculties. =nd is opinion also a facultyK (ertainly! he saidO for opinion is that ith hich e are able to form an opinion. =nd yet you ere ackno ledging a little hile ago that kno ledge is not the same as opinionK Why! yes! he saidA ho can any reasonable being e#er identify that hich is infallible ith that hich errsK =n excellent ans er! pro#ing! - said! that e are Nuite conscious of a distinction bet een them. Les.

Then kno ledge and opinion ha#ing distinct po ers ha#e also distinct spheres or subjectMmattersK That is certain. &eing is the sphere or subjectMmatter of kno ledge! and kno ledge is to kno the nature of beingK Les. =nd opinion is to ha#e an opinionK Les. =nd do e kno hat e opineK or is the subjectMmatter of opinion the same as the subjectMmatter of kno ledgeK 9ay! he replied! that has been already dispro#enO if difference in faculty implies difference in the sphere or subject matter! and if! as e ere saying! opinion and kno ledge are distinct faculties! then the sphere of kno ledge and of opinion cannot be the same. Then if being is the subjectMmatter of kno ledge! something else must be the subjectMmatter of opinionK Les! something else. Well then! is notMbeing the subjectMmatter of opinionK or! rather! ho can there be an opinion at all about notMbeingK ReflectA hen a man has an opinion! has he not an opinion about somethingK (an he ha#e an opinion hich is an opinion about nothingK -mpossible. 'e ho has an opinion has an opinion about some one thingK Les. =nd notMbeing is not one thing but! properly speaking! nothingK

True. 8f notMbeing! ignorance as assumed to be the necessary correlati#eO of being! kno ledgeK True! he said. Then opinion is not concerned either ith being or ith notMbeingK 9ot ith either. =nd can therefore neither be ignorance nor kno ledgeK That seems to be true. &ut is opinion to be sought ithout and beyond either of them! in a greater clearness than kno ledge! or in a greater darkness than ignoranceK -n neither. Then - suppose that opinion appears to you to be darker than kno ledge! but lighter than ignoranceK &othO and in no small degree. =nd also to be ithin and bet een themK Les. Then you ould infer that opinion is intermediateK 9o Nuestion. &ut ere e not saying before! that if anything appeared to be of a sort hich is and is not at the same time! that sort of thing ould appear also to lie in the inter#al bet een pure being and absolute notMbeingO and that the corresponding faculty is neither kno ledge nor ignorance! but ill be found in the inter#al bet een themK

True. =nd in that inter#al there has no been disco#ered something hich e call opinionK There has. Then hat remains to be disco#ered is the object hich partakes eNually of the nature of being and notMbeing! and cannot rightly be termed either! pure and simpleO this unkno n term! hen disco#ered! e may truly call the subject of opinion! and assign each to its proper faculty! Mthe extremes to the faculties of the extremes and the mean to the faculty of the mean. True. This being premised! - ould ask the gentleman ho is of opinion that there is no absolute or unchangeable idea of beautyMM in hose opinion the beautiful is the manifoldMMhe! - say! your lo#er of beautiful sights! ho cannot bear to be told that the beautiful is one! and the just is one! or that anything is oneMM to him - ould appeal! saying! Will you be so #ery kind! sir! as to tell us hether! of all these beautiful things! there is one hich ill not be found uglyO or of the just! hich ill not be found unjustO or of the holy! hich ill not also be unholyK 9o! he repliedO the beautiful ill in some point of #ie be found uglyO and the same is true of the rest. =nd may not the many hich are doubles be also hal#esKMMdoubles! that is! of one thing! and hal#es of anotherK Puite true. =nd things great and small! hea#y and light! as they are termed! ill not be denoted by these any more than by the opposite namesK TrueO both these and the opposite names ill al ays attach to all of them.

=nd can any one of those many things hich are called by particular names be said to be this rather than not to be thisK 'e repliedA They are like the punning riddles hich are asked at feasts or the children.s pu77le about the eunuch aiming at the bat! ith hat he hit him! as they say in the pu77le! and upon hat the bat as sitting. The indi#idual objects of hich - am speaking are also a riddle! and ha#e a double senseA nor can you fix them in your mind! either as being or notMbeing! or both! or neither. Then hat ill you do ith themK - said. (an they ha#e a better place than bet een being and notMbeingK $or they are clearly not in greater darkness or negation than notMbeing! or more full of light and existence than being. That is Nuite true! he said. Thus then e seem to ha#e disco#ered that the many ideas hich the multitude entertain about the beautiful and about all other things are tossing about in some region hich is half ay bet een pure being and pure notM beingK We ha#e. LesO and e had before agreed that anything of this kind hich e might find as to be described as matter of opinion! and not as matter of kno ledgeO being the intermediate flux hich is caught and detained by the intermediate faculty. Puite true. Then those ho see the many beautiful! and ho yet neither see absolute beauty! nor can follo any guide ho points the ay thitherO ho see the many just! and not absolute justice! and the like!MM such persons may be said to ha#e opinion but not kno ledgeK That is certain.

&ut those ho see the absolute and eternal and immutable may be said to kno ! and not to ha#e opinion onlyK 9either can that be denied. The one lo#es and embraces the subjects of kno ledge! the other those of opinionK The latter are the same! as - dare say ill remember! ho listened to s eet sounds and ga7ed upon fair colours! but ould not tolerate the existence of absolute beauty. Les! - remember. )hall e then be guilty of any impropriety in calling them lo#ers of opinion rather than lo#ers of isdom! and ill they be #ery angry ith us for thus describing themK - shall tell them not to be angryO no man should be angry at hat is true. &ut those ho lo#e the truth in each thing are to be called lo#ers of isdom and not lo#ers of opinion. =ssuredly.

&88Q %)8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 =9" thus! Glaucon! after the argument has gone a eary ay! the true and the false philosophers ha#e at length appeared in #ie . - do not think! he said! that the ay could ha#e been shortened. - suppose not! - saidO and yet - belie#e that e might ha#e had a better #ie of both of them if the discussion could ha#e been confined to this one subject and if there ere not many other Nuestions a aiting us! hich he ho desires to see in hat respect

the life of the just differs from that of the unjust must consider. =nd hat is the next NuestionK he asked. )urely! - said! the one hich follo s next in order. -nasmuch as philosophers only are able to grasp the eternal and unchangeable! and those ho ander in the region of the many and #ariable are not philosophers! - must ask you hich of the t o classes should be the rulers of our )tateK =nd ho can e rightly ans er that NuestionK Whiche#er of the t o are best able to guard the la s and institutions of our )tateMMlet them be our guardians. %ery good. 9either! - said! can there be any Nuestion that the guardian ho is to keep anything should ha#e eyes rather than no eyesK There can be no Nuestion of that. =nd are not those ho are #erily and indeed anting in the kno ledge of the true being of each thing! and ho ha#e in their souls no clear pattern! and are unable as ith a painter.s eye to look at the absolute truth and to that original to repair! and ha#ing perfect #ision of the other orld to order the la s about beauty! goodness! justice in this! if not already ordered! and to guard and preser#e the order of themMMare not such persons! - ask! simply blindK Truly! he replied! they are much in that condition. =nd shall they be our guardians hen there are others ho! besides being their eNuals in experience and falling short of them in no particular of #irtue! also kno the #ery truth of each thingK There can be no reason! he said! for rejecting those ho ha#e this greatest of all great NualitiesO they must al ays ha#e the first place unless they fail in some other respect.

)uppose then! - said! that e determine ho far they can unite this and the other excellences. &y all means. -n the first place! as e began by obser#ing! the nature of the philosopher has to be ascertained. We must come to an understanding about him! and! hen e ha#e done so! then! if - am not mistaken! e shall also ackno ledge that such an union of Nualities is possible! and that those in hom they are united! and those only! should be rulers in the )tate. What do you meanK <et us suppose that philosophical minds al ays lo#e kno ledge of a sort hich sho s them the eternal nature not #arying from generation and corruption. =greed. =nd further! - said! let us agree that they are lo#ers of all true beingO there is no part hether greater or less! or more or less honourable! hich they are illing to renounceO as e said before of the lo#er and the man of ambition. True. =nd if they are to be hat e ere describing! is there not another Nuality hich they should also possessK What NualityK TruthfulnessA they ill ne#er intentionally recei#e into their mind falsehood! hich is their detestation! and they ill lo#e the truth. Les! that may be safely affirmed of them. T;ay be!. my friend! - replied! is not the ordO say rather Tmust

be affirmedA. for he hose nature is amorous of anything cannot help lo#ing all that belongs or is akin to the object of his affections. Right! he said. =nd is there anything more akin to isdom than truthK 'o can there beK (an the same nature be a lo#er of isdom and a lo#er of falsehoodK 9e#er. The true lo#er of learning then must from his earliest youth! as far as in him lies! desire all truthK =ssuredly. &ut then again! as e kno by experience! he hose desires are strong in one direction ill ha#e them eaker in othersO they ill be like a stream hich has been dra n off into another channel. True. 'e hose desires are dra n to ards kno ledge in e#ery form ill be absorbed in the pleasures of the soul! and ill hardly feel bodily pleasureMM - mean! if he be a true philosopher and not a sham one. That is most certain. )uch an one is sure to be temperate and the re#erse of co#etousO for the moti#es hich make another man desirous of ha#ing and spending! ha#e no place in his character. %ery true. =nother criterion of the philosophical nature has also to be considered. What is thatK

There should be no secret corner of illiberalityO nothing can more antagonistic than meanness to a soul hich is e#er longing after the hole of things both di#ine and human. ;ost true! he replied. Then ho can he ho has magnificence of mind and is the spectator of all time and all existence! think much of human lifeK 'e cannot. 8r can such an one account death fearfulK 9o indeed. Then the co ardly and mean nature has no part in true philosophyK (ertainly not. 8r againA can he ho is harmoniously constituted! ho is not co#etous or mean! or a boaster! or a co ardMcan he! - say! e#er be unjust or hard in his dealingsK -mpossible. Then you ill soon obser#e hether a man is just and gentle! or rude and unsociableO these are the signs hich distinguish e#en in youth the philosophical nature from the unphilosophical. True. There is another point hich should be remarked. What pointK Whether he has or has not a pleasure in learningO for no one ill lo#e that hich gi#es him pain! and in hich after much toil he makes little progress.

(ertainly not. =nd again! if he is forgetful and retains nothing of hat he learns! ill he not be an empty #esselK That is certain. <abouring in #ain! he must end in hating himself and his fruitless occupationK Les. Then a soul hich forgets cannot be ranked among genuine philosophic naturesO e must insist that the philosopher should ha#e a good memoryK (ertainly. =nd once more! the inharmonious and unseemly nature can only tend to disproportionK :ndoubtedly. =nd do you consider truth to be akin to proportion or to disproportionK To proportion. Then! besides other Nualities! e must try to find a naturally ellMproportioned and gracious mind! hich ill mo#e spontaneously to ards the true being of e#erything. (ertainly. Well! and do not all these Nualities! hich e ha#e been enumerating! go together! and are they not! in a manner! necessary to a soul! hich is to ha#e a full and perfect participation of beingK They are absolutely necessary! he replied. =nd must not that be a blameless study hich he only can pursue ho has the gift of a good memory! and is Nuick to learn!MMnoble! gracious! the friend of truth! justice! courage! temperance! ho are his kindredK

The god of jealousy himself! he said! could find no fault ith such a study. =nd to men like him! - said! hen perfected by years and education! and to these only you ill entrust the )tate. )8(R=TE) M ="E-;=9T:) 'ere =deimantus interposed and saidA To these statements! )ocrates! no one can offer a replyO but hen you talk in this ay! a strange feeling passes o#er the minds of your hearersA They fancy that they are led astray a little at each step in the argument! o ing to their o n ant of skill in asking and ans ering NuestionsO these littles accumulate! and at the end of the discussion they are found to ha#e sustained a mighty o#erthro and all their former notions appear to be turned upside do n. =nd as unskilful players of draughts are at last shut up by their more skilful ad#ersaries and ha#e no piece to mo#e! so they too find themsel#es shut up at lastO for they ha#e nothing to say in this ne game of hich ords are the countersO and yet all the time they are in the right. The obser#ation is suggested to me by hat is no occurring. $or any one of us might say! that although in ords he is not able to meet you at each step of the argument! he sees as a fact that the #otaries of philosophy! hen they carry on the study! not only in youth as a part of education! but as the pursuit of their maturer years! most of them become strange monsters! not to say utter rogues! and that those ho may be considered the best of them are made useless to the orld by the #ery study hich you extol. Well! and do you think that those ho say so are rongK - cannot tell! he repliedO but - should like to kno your opinion. hat is

'ear my ans erO - am of opinion that they are Nuite right. Then ho can you be justified in saying that cities ill not cease from e#il until philosophers rule in them! hen philosophers

are ackno ledged by us to be of no use to themK Lou ask a Nuestion! - said! to hich a reply can only be gi#en in a parable. Les! )ocratesO and that is a ay of speaking to hich you are not at all accustomed! - suppose. - percei#e! - said! that you are #astly amused at ha#ing plunged me into such a hopeless discussionO but no hear the parable! and then you ill be still more amused at the meagreness of my imaginationA for the manner in hich the best men are treated in their o n )tates is so grie#ous that no single thing on earth is comparable to itO and therefore! if - am to plead their cause! - must ha#e recourse to fiction! and put together a figure made up of many things! like the fabulous unions of goats and stags hich are found in pictures. -magine then a fleet or a ship in hich there is a captain ho is taller and stronger than any of the cre ! but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight! and his kno ledge of na#igation is not much better. The sailors are Nuarrelling ith one another about the steeringMM e#ery one is of opinion that he has a right to steer! though he has ne#er learned the art of na#igation and cannot tell ho taught him or hen he learned! and ill further assert that it cannot be taught! and they are ready to cut in pieces any one ho says the contrary. They throng about the captain! begging and praying him to commit the helm to themO and if at any time they do not pre#ail! but others are preferred to them! they kill the others or thro them o#erboard! and ha#ing first chained up the noble captain.s senses ith drink or some narcotic drug! they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free ith the storesO thus! eating and drinking! they proceed on their #oyage in such a manner as might be expected of them. 'im ho is their partisan and cle#erly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain.s hands into their o n hether by force or persuasion! they compliment ith the name of sailor! pilot! able seaman! and abuse the other sort of man! hom they call a goodMforMnothingO but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and inds! and hate#er else belongs to his art! if he intends to be really Nualified for the command of a ship! and that he must and ill

be the steerer! hether other people like or notMthe possibility of this union of authority ith the steerer.s art has ne#er seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. 9o in #essels hich are in a state of mutiny and by sailors ho are mutineers! ho ill the true pilot be regardedK Will he not be called by them a prater! a starMga7er! a goodMforMnothingK 8f course! said =deimantus. Then you ill hardly need! - said! to hear the interpretation of the figure! hich describes the true philosopher in his relation to the )tateO for you understand already. (ertainly. Then suppose you no take this parable to the gentleman ho is surprised at finding that philosophers ha#e no honour in their citiesO explain it to him and try to con#ince him that their ha#ing honour ould be far more extraordinary. - ill. )ay to him! that! in deeming the best #otaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the orld! he is rightO but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those ho ill not use them! and not to themsel#es. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by himMMthat is not the order of natureO neither are Tthe ise to go to the doors of the rich.MMthe ingenious author of this saying told a lieMMbut the truth is! that! hen a man is ill! hether he be rich or poor! to the physician he must go! and he ho ants to be go#erned! to him ho is able to go#ern. The ruler ho is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by himO although the present go#ernors of mankind are of a different stampO they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors! and the true helmsmen to those ho are called by them goodMforMnothings and starMga7ers. Precisely so! he said.

$or these reasons! and among men like these! philosophy! the noblest pursuit of all! is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite factionO not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents! but by her o n professing follo ers! the same of hom you suppose the accuser to say! that the greater number of them are arrant rogues! and the best are uselessO in hich opinion - agreed. Les. =nd the reason hy the good are useless has no been explainedK True. Then shall e proceed to sho that the corruption of the majority is also una#oidable! and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the otherK &y all means. =nd let us ask and ans er in turn! first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature. Truth! as you ill remember! as his leader! hom he follo ed al ays and in all thingsO failing in this! he as an impostor! and had no part or lot in true philosophy. Les! that as said. Well! and is not this one Nuality! to mention no others! greatly at #ariance ith present notions of himK (ertainly! he said. =nd ha#e e not a right to say in his defence! that the true lo#er of kno ledge is al ays stri#ing after beingMMthat is his natureO he ill not rest in the multiplicity of indi#iduals hich is an appearance only! but ill go onMMthe keen edge ill not be blunted! nor the force of his desire abate until he ha#e attained the kno ledge of the true nature of e#ery essence by a sympathetic and kindred po er in the soul! and by that po er dra ing near and mingling and

becoming incorporate ith #ery being! ha#ing begotten mind and truth! he ill ha#e kno ledge and ill li#e and gro truly! and then! and not till then! ill he cease from his tra#ail. 9othing! he said! can be more just than such a description of him. =nd ill the lo#e of a lie be any part of a philosopher.s natureK Will he not utterly hate a lieK 'e ill. =nd hen truth is the captain! e cannot suspect any e#il of the band hich he leadsK -mpossible. /ustice and health of mind ill be of the company! and temperance ill follo afterK True! he replied. 9either is there any reason hy - should again set in array the philosopher.s #irtues! as you ill doubtless remember that courage! magnificence! apprehension! memory! ere his natural gifts. =nd you objected that! although no one could deny hat - then said! still! if you lea#e ords and look at facts! the persons ho are thus described are some of them manifestly useless! and the greater number utterly depra#edO e ere then led to enNuire into the grounds of these accusations! and ha#e no arri#ed at the point of asking hy are the majority bad! hich Nuestion of necessity brought us back to the examination and definition of the true philosopher. Exactly. =nd e ha#e next to consider the corruptions of the philosophic nature! hy so many are spoiled and so fe escape spoilingMM- am speaking of those ho ere said to be useless but not ickedMMand! hen e ha#e done ith them! e ill speak of the imitators of philosophy! hat manner of men are they ho aspire after a profession hich is abo#e them and of hich they are un orthy! and then!

by their manifold inconsistencies! bring upon philosophy! and upon all philosophers! that uni#ersal reprobation of hich e speak. What are these corruptionsK he said. - ill see if - can explain them to you. E#ery one ill admit that a nature ha#ing in perfection all the Nualities hich e reNuired in a philosopher! is a rare plant hich is seldom seen among men. Rare indeed. =nd hat numberless and po erful causes tend to destroy these rare naturesD What causesK -n the first place there are their o n #irtues! their courage! temperance! and the rest of them! e#ery one of hich praise orthy Nualities >and this is a most singular circumstance? destroys and distracts from philosophy the soul hich is the possessor of them. That is #ery singular! he replied. Then there are all the ordinary goods of lifeMMbeauty! ealth! strength! rank! and great connections in the )tateMMyou understand the sort of thingsMMthese also ha#e a corrupting and distracting effect. - understandO but - should like to kno more precisely hat you mean about them. Grasp the truth as a hole! - said! and in the right ayO you ill then ha#e no difficulty in apprehending the preceding remarks! and they ill no longer appear strange to you. =nd ho am - to do soK he asked. Why! - said! e kno that all germs or seeds! hether #egetable or animal! hen they fail to meet ith proper nutriment or climate or soil! in proportion to their #igour! are all the more sensiti#e to the ant of a suitable en#ironment! for e#il is a greater enemy

to hat is good than hat is not. %ery true. There is reason in supposing that the finest natures! hen under alien conditions! recei#e more injury than the inferior! because the contrast is greater. (ertainly. =nd may e not say! =deimantus! that the most gifted minds! hen they are illMeducated! become preMeminently badK "o not great crimes and the spirit of pure e#il spring out of a fulness of nature ruined by education rather than from any inferiority! hereas eak natures are scarcely capable of any #ery great good or #ery great e#ilK There - think that you are right. =nd our philosopher follo s the same analogyMhe is like a plant hich! ha#ing proper nurture! must necessarily gro and mature into all #irtue! but! if so n and planted in an alien soil! becomes the most noxious of all eeds! unless he be preser#ed by some di#ine po er. "o you really think! as people so often say! that our youth are corrupted by )ophists! or that pri#ate teachers of the art corrupt them in any degree orth speaking ofK =re not the public ho say these things the greatest of all )ophistsK =nd do they not educate to perfection young and old! men and omen alike! and fashion them after their o n heartsK When is this accomplishedK he said. When they meet together! and the orld sits do n at an assembly! or in a court of la ! or a theatre! or a camp! or in any other popular resort! and there is a great uproar! and they praise some things hich are being said or done! and blame other things! eNually exaggerating both! shouting and clapping their hands! and the echo of the rocks and the place in hich they are assembled redoubles the sound of the praise or blameMMat such a time ill not a young man.s heart! as they say! leap ithin himK Will any pri#ate

training enable him to stand firm against the o#er helming flood of popular opinionK or ill he be carried a ay by the streamK Will he not ha#e the notions of good and e#il hich the public in general ha#eMMhe ill do as they do! and as they are! such ill he beK Les! )ocratesO necessity ill compel him. =nd yet! - said! there is a still greater necessity! hich has not been mentioned. What is thatK The gentle force of attainder or confiscation or death hich! as you are a are! these ne )ophists and educators ho are the public! apply hen their ords are po erless. -ndeed they doO and in right good earnest. 9o hat opinion of any other )ophist! or of any pri#ate person! can be expected to o#ercome in such an uneNual contestK 9one! he replied. 9o! indeed! - said! e#en to make the attempt is a great piece of follyO there neither is! nor has been! nor is e#er likely to be! any different type of character hich has had no other training in #irtue but that hich is supplied by public opinionMM- speak! my friend! of human #irtue onlyO hat is more than human! as the pro#erb says! is not includedA for - ould not ha#e you ignorant that! in the present e#il state of go#ernments! hate#er is sa#ed and comes to good is sa#ed by the po er of God! as e may truly say. - Nuite assent! he replied. Then let me cra#e your assent also to a further obser#ation. What are you going to sayK

Why! that all those mercenary indi#iduals! hom the many call )ophists and hom they deem to be their ad#ersaries! do! in fact! teach nothing but the opinion of the many! that is to say! the opinions of their assembliesO and this is their isdom. - might compare them to a man ho should study the tempers and desires of a mighty strong beast ho is fed by himMhe ould learn ho to approach and handle him! also at hat times and from hat causes he is dangerous or the re#erse! and hat is the meaning of his se#eral cries! and by hat sounds! hen another utters them! he is soothed or infuriatedO and you may suppose further! that hen! by continually attending upon him! he has become perfect in all this! he calls his kno ledge isdom! and makes of it a system or art! hich he proceeds to teach! although he has no real notion of hat he means by the principles or passions of hich he is speaking! but calls this honourable and that dishonourable! or good or e#il! or just or unjust! all in accordance ith the tastes and tempers of the great brute. Good he pronounces to be that in hich the beast delights and e#il to be that hich he dislikesO and he can gi#e no other account of them except that the just and noble are the necessary! ha#ing ne#er himself seen! and ha#ing no po er of explaining to others the nature of either! or the difference bet een them! hich is immense. &y hea#en! ould not such an one be a rare educatorK -ndeed! he ould. =nd in hat ay does he ho thinks that isdom is the discernment of the tempers and tastes of the motley multitude! hether in painting or music! or! finally! in politics! differ from him hom - ha#e been describingK $or hen a man consorts ith the many! and exhibits to them his poem or other ork of art or the ser#ice hich he has done the )tate! making them his judges hen he is not obliged! the soMcalled necessity of "iomede ill oblige him to produce hate#er they praise. =nd yet the reasons are utterly ludicrous hich they gi#e in confirmation of their o n notions about the honourable and good. "id you e#er hear any of them hich ere notK 9o! nor am - likely to hear. Lou recognise the truth of hat - ha#e been sayingK Then let me ask you to consider further hether the orld ill e#er be induced to belie#e

in the existence of absolute beauty rather than of the many beautiful! or of the absolute in each kind rather than of the many in each kindK (ertainly not. Then the orld cannot possibly be a philosopherK -mpossible. =nd therefore philosophers must ine#itably fall under the censure of the orldK They must. =nd of indi#iduals ho consort ith the mob and seek to please themK That is e#ident. Then! do you see any ay in hich the philosopher can be preser#ed in his calling to the endK and remember hat e ere saying of him! that he as to ha#e Nuickness and memory and courage and magnificenceMM these ere admitted by us to be the true philosopher.s gifts. Les. Will not such an one from his early childhood be in all things first among all! especially if his bodily endo ments are like his mental onesK (ertainly! he said. =nd his friends and fello Mciti7ens ill ant to use him as he gets older for their o n purposesK 9o Nuestion. $alling at his feet! they ill make reNuests to him and do him honour and flatter him! because they ant to get into their hands no ! the po er hich he ill one day possess.

That often happens! he said. =nd hat ill a man such as he be likely to do under such circumstances! especially if he be a citi7en of a great city! rich and noble! and a tall proper youthK Will he not be full of boundless aspirations! and fancy himself able to manage the affairs of 'ellenes and of barbarians! and ha#ing got such notions into his head ill he not dilate and ele#ate himself in the fulness of #ain pomp and senseless prideK To be sure he ill. 9o ! hen he is in this state of mind! if some one gently comes to him and tells him that he is a fool and must get understanding! hich can only be got by sla#ing for it! do you think that! under such ad#erse circumstances! he ill be easily induced to listenK $ar other ise. =nd e#en if there be some one ho through inherent goodness or natural reasonableness has had his eyes opened a little and is humbled and taken capti#e by philosophy! ho ill his friends beha#e hen they think that they are likely to lose the ad#antage hich they ere hoping to reap from his companionshipK Will they not do and say anything to pre#ent him from yielding to his better nature and to render his teacher po erless! using to this end pri#ate intrigues as ell as public prosecutionsK There can be no doubt of it. =nd ho can one ho is thus circumstanced e#er become a philosopherK -mpossible. Then ere e not right in saying that e#en the #ery Nualities hich make a man a philosopher may! if he be illMeducated! di#ert him from philosophy! no less than riches and their accompaniments and the other soMcalled goods of lifeK We ere Nuite right.

Thus! my excellent friend! is brought about all that ruin and failure hich - ha#e been describing of the natures best adapted to the best of all pursuitsO they are natures hich e maintain to be rare at any timeO this being the class out of hich come the men ho are the authors of the greatest e#il to )tates and indi#idualsO and also of the greatest good hen the tide carries them in that directionO but a small man ne#er as the doer of any great thing either to indi#iduals or to )tates. That is most true! he said. =nd so philosophy is left desolate! ith her marriage rite incompleteA for her o n ha#e fallen a ay and forsaken her! and hile they are leading a false and unbecoming life! other un orthy persons! seeing that she has no kinsmen to be her protectors! enter in and dishonour herO and fasten upon her the reproaches hich! as you say! her repro#ers utter! ho affirm of her #otaries that some are good for nothing! and that the greater number deser#e the se#erest punishment. That is certainly hat people say. LesO and hat else ould you expect! - said! hen you think of the puny creatures ho! seeing this land open to themMMa land ell stocked ith fair names and sho y titlesMMlike prisoners running out of prison into a sanctuary! take a leap out of their trades into philosophyO those ho do so being probably the cle#erest hands at their o n miserable craftsK $or! although philosophy be in this e#il case! still there remains a dignity about her hich is not to be found in the arts. =nd many are thus attracted by her hose natures are imperfect and hose souls are maimed and disfigured by their meannesses! as their bodies are by their trades and crafts. -s not this una#oidableK Les. =re they not exactly like a bald little tinker ho has just got out of durance and come into a fortuneO he takes a bath and puts on a ne coat! and is decked out as a bridegroom going to marry his master.s daughter! ho is left poor and desolateK

= most exact parallel. What ill be the issue of such marriagesK Will they not be #ile and bastardK There can be no Nuestion of it. =nd hen persons ho are un orthy of education approach philosophy and make an alliance ith her ho is a rank abo#e them hat sort of ideas and opinions are likely to be generatedK Will they not be sophisms capti#ating to the ear! ha#ing nothing in them genuine! or orthy of or akin to true isdomK 9o doubt! he said. Then! =deimantus! - said! the orthy disciples of philosophy ill be but a small remnantA perchance some noble and ellMeducated person! detained by exile in her ser#ice! ho in the absence of corrupting influences remains de#oted to herO or some lofty soul born in a mean city! the politics of hich he contemns and neglectsO and there may be a gifted fe ho lea#e the arts! hich they justly despise! and come to herOMMor perad#enture there are some ho are restrained by our friend Theages. bridleO for e#erything in the life of Theages conspired to di#ert him from philosophyO but illMhealth kept him a ay from politics. ;y o n case of the internal sign is hardly orth mentioning! for rarely! if e#er! has such a monitor been gi#en to any other man. Those ho belong to this small class ha#e tasted ho s eet and blessed a possession philosophy is! and ha#e also seen enough of the madness of the multitudeO and they kno that no politician is honest! nor is there any champion of justice at hose side they may fight and be sa#ed. )uch an one may be compared to a man ho has fallen among ild beastsMM he ill not join in the ickedness of his fello s! but neither is he able singly to resist all their fierce natures! and therefore seeing that he ould be of no use to the )tate or to his friends! and reflecting that he ould ha#e to thro a ay his life ithout doing any good either to himself or others! he holds his peace! and goes his o n ay. 'e is like one ho! in the storm of dust and sleet hich the dri#ing ind hurries along! retires under the shelter

of a allO and seeing the rest of mankind full of ickedness! he is content! if only he can li#e his o n life and be pure from e#il or unrighteousness! and depart in peace and goodM ill! ith bright hopes. Les! he said! and he ill ha#e done a great ork before he departs. = great orkMMyesO but not the greatest! unless he find a )tate suitable to himO for in a )tate hich is suitable to him! he ill ha#e a larger gro th and be the sa#iour of his country! as ell as of himself. The causes hy philosophy is in such an e#il name ha#e no been sufficiently explainedA the injustice of the charges against her has been sho nMis there anything more hich you ish to sayK 9othing more on that subject! he repliedO but - should like to kno hich of the go#ernments no existing is in your opinion the one adapted to her. 9ot any of them! - saidO and that is precisely the accusation hich bring against themMMnot one of them is orthy of the philosophic nature! and hence that nature is arped and estrangedOMMas the exotic seed hich is so n in a foreign land becomes denaturali7ed! and is ont to be o#erpo ered and to lose itself in the ne soil! e#en so this gro th of philosophy! instead of persisting! degenerates and recei#es another character. &ut if philosophy e#er finds in the )tate that perfection hich she herself is! then ill be seen that she is in truth di#ine! and that all other things! hether natures of men or institutions! are but humanOMMand no ! - kno that you are going to ask! hat that )tate is. 9o! he saidO there you are rong! for - as going to ask another NuestionMM hether it is the )tate of hich. e are the founders and in#entors! or some otherK Les! - replied! ours in most respectsO but you may remember my saying before! that some li#ing authority ould al ays be reNuired in the )tate ha#ing the same idea of the constitution hich guided you hen as legislator you ere laying do n the la s.

That as said! he replied. Les! but not in a satisfactory mannerO you frightened us by interposing objections! hich certainly sho ed that the discussion ould be long and difficultO and hat still remains is the re#erse of easy. What is there remainingK The Nuestion ho the study of philosophy may be so ordered as not to be the ruin of the )tateA =ll great attempts are attended ith riskO Thard is the good!. as men say. )till! he said! let the point be cleared up! and the enNuiry ill then be complete. - shall not be hindered! - said! by any ant of ill! but! if at all! by a ant of po erA my 7eal you may see for yoursel#esO and please to remark in hat - am about to say ho boldly and unhesitatingly declare that )tates should pursue philosophy! not as they do no ! but in a different spirit. -n hat mannerK =t present! - said! the students of philosophy are Nuite youngO beginning hen they are hardly past childhood! they de#ote only the time sa#ed from moneymaking and housekeeping to such pursuitsO and e#en those of them ho are reputed to ha#e most of the philosophic spirit! hen they come ithin sight of the great difficulty of the subject! - mean dialectic! take themsel#es off. -n after life hen in#ited by some one else! they may! perhaps! go and hear a lecture! and about this they make much ado! for philosophy is not considered by them to be their proper businessA at last! hen they gro old! in most cases they are extinguished more truly than 'eracleitus. sun! inasmuch as they ne#er light up again. &ut hat ought to be their courseK /ust the opposite. -n childhood and youth their study! and hat philosophy they learn! should be suited to their tender yearsA

during this period hile they are gro ing up to ards manhood! the chief and special care should be gi#en to their bodies that they may ha#e them to use in the ser#ice of philosophyO as life ad#ances and the intellect begins to mature! let them increase the gymnastics of the soulO but hen the strength of our citi7ens fails and is past ci#il and military duties! then let them range at ill and engage in no serious labour! as e intend them to li#e happily here! and to cro n this life ith a similar happiness in another. 'o truly in earnest you are! )ocratesD he saidO - am sure of thatO and yet most of your hearers! if - am not mistaken! are likely to be still more earnest in their opposition to you! and ill ne#er be con#incedO Thrasymachus least of all. "o not make a Nuarrel! - said! bet een Thrasymachus and me! ho ha#e recently become friends! although! indeed! e ere ne#er enemiesO for - shall go on stri#ing to the utmost until - either con#ert him and other men! or do something hich may profit them against the day hen they li#e again! and hold the like discourse in another state of existence. Lou are speaking of a time hich is not #ery near. Rather! - replied! of a time hich is as nothing in comparison ith eternity. 9e#ertheless! - do not onder that the many refuse to belie#eO for they ha#e ne#er seen that of hich e are no speaking realisedO they ha#e seen only a con#entional imitation of philosophy! consisting of ords artificially brought together! not like these of ours ha#ing a natural unity. &ut a human being ho in ord and ork is perfectly moulded! as far as he can be! into the proportion and likeness of #irtueMMsuch a man ruling in a city hich bears the same image! they ha#e ne#er yet seen! neither one nor many of themMMdo you think that they e#er didK 9o indeed. 9o! my friend! and they ha#e seldom! if e#er! heard free and noble sentimentsO such as men utter hen they are earnestly and by e#ery means in their

po er seeking after truth for the sake of kno ledge! hile they look coldly on the subtleties of contro#ersy! of hich the end is opinion and strife! hether they meet ith them in the courts of la or in society. They are strangers! he said! to the ords of hich you speak. =nd this as hat e foresa ! and this as the reason hy truth forced us to admit! not ithout fear and hesitation! that neither cities nor )tates nor indi#iduals ill e#er attain perfection until the small class of philosophers hom e termed useless but not corrupt are pro#identially compelled! hether they ill or not! to take care of the )tate! and until a like necessity be laid on the )tate to obey themO or until kings! or if not kings! the sons of kings or princes! are di#inely inspired ith a true lo#e of true philosophy. That either or both of these alternati#es are impossible! - see no reason to affirmA if they ere so! e might indeed be justly ridiculed as dreamers and #isionaries. =m - not rightK Puite right. -f then! in the countless ages of the past! or at the present hour in some foreign clime hich is far a ay and beyond our ken! the perfected philosopher is or has been or hereafter shall be compelled by a superior po er to ha#e the charge of the )tate! e are ready to assert to the death! that this our constitution has been! and isMMyea! and ill be hene#er the ;use of Philosophy is Nueen. There is no impossibility in all thisO that there is a difficulty! e ackno ledge oursel#es. ;y opinion agrees ith yours! he said. &ut do you mean to say that this is not the opinion of the multitudeK - should imagine not! he replied. 8 my friend! - said! do not attack the multitudeA they ill change their minds! if! not in an aggressi#e spirit! but gently and ith the #ie of soothing them and remo#ing their dislike of o#erMeducation! you sho them your philosophers as they really are and describe

as you ere just no doing their character and profession! and then mankind ill see that he of hom you are speaking is not such as they supposedMMif they #ie him in this ne light! they ill surely change their notion of him! and ans er in another strain. Who can be at enmity ith one ho lo#es them! ho that is himself gentle and free from en#y ill be jealous of one in hom there is no jealousyK 9ay! let me ans er for you! that in a fe this harsh temper may be found but not in the majority of mankind. - Nuite agree ith you! he said. =nd do you not also think! as - do! that the harsh feeling hich the many entertain to ards philosophy originates in the pretenders! ho rush in unin#ited! and are al ays abusing them! and finding fault ith them! ho make persons instead of things the theme of their con#ersationK and nothing can be more unbecoming in philosophers than this. -t is most unbecoming. $or he! =deimantus! hose mind is fixed upon true being! has surely no time to look do n upon the affairs of earth! or to be filled ith malice and en#y! contending against menO his eye is e#er directed to ards things fixed and immutable! hich he sees neither injuring nor injured by one another! but all in order mo#ing according to reasonO these he imitates! and to these he ill! as far as he can! conform himself. (an a man help imitating that ith hich he holds re#erential con#erseK -mpossible. =nd the philosopher holding con#erse ith the di#ine order! becomes orderly and di#ine! as far as the nature of man allo sO but like e#ery one else! he ill suffer from detraction. 8f course. =nd if a necessity be laid upon him of fashioning! not only himself! but human nature generally! hether in )tates or indi#iduals! into that hich he beholds else here! ill he! think you! be an

unskilful artificer of justice! temperance! and e#ery ci#il #irtueK =nything but unskilful. =nd if the orld percei#es that hat e are saying about him is the truth! ill they be angry ith philosophyK Will they disbelie#e us! hen e tell them that no )tate can be happy hich is not designed by artists ho imitate the hea#enly patternK They ill not be angry if they understand! he said. &ut ho they dra out the plan of hich you are speakingK ill

They ill begin by taking the )tate and the manners of men! from hich! as from a tablet! they ill rub out the picture! and lea#e a clean surface. This is no easy task. &ut hether easy or not! herein ill lie the difference bet een them and e#ery other legislator!MM they ill ha#e nothing to do either ith indi#idual or )tate! and ill inscribe no la s! until they ha#e either found! or themsel#es made! a clean surface. They ill be #ery right! he said. 'a#ing effected this! they ill proceed to trace an outline of the constitutionK 9o doubt. =nd hen they are filling in the ork! as - concei#e! they ill often turn their eyes up ards and do n ardsA - mean that they ill first look at absolute justice and beauty and temperance! and again at the human copyO and ill mingle and temper the #arious elements of life into the image of a manO and thus they ill concei#e according to that other image! hich! hen existing among men! 'omer calls the form and likeness of God. %ery true! he said. =nd one feature they ill erase! and another they ill put in! they ha#e made the ays of men! as far as possible! agreeable to the ays of GodK

-ndeed! he said! in no ay could they make a fairer picture. =nd no ! - said! are e beginning to persuade those hom you described as rushing at us ith might and main! that the painter of constitutions is such an one as e are praisingO at hom they ere so #ery indignant because to his hands e committed the )tateO and are they gro ing a little calmer at hat they ha#e just heardK ;uch calmer! if there is any sense in them. Why! here can they still find any ground for objectionK Will they doubt that the philosopher is a lo#er of truth and beingK They ould not be so unreasonable. 8r that his nature! being such as e ha#e delineated! is akin to the highest goodK 9either can they doubt this. &ut again! ill they tell us that such a nature! placed under fa#ourable circumstances! ill not be perfectly good and ise if any e#er asK 8r ill they prefer those hom e ha#e rejectedK )urely not. Then ill they still be angry at our saying! that! until philosophers bear rule! )tates and indi#iduals ill ha#e no rest from e#il! nor ill this our imaginary )tate e#er be realisedK - think that they ill be less angry. )hall e assume that they are not only less angry but Nuite gentle! and that they ha#e been con#erted and for #ery shame! if for no other reason! cannot refuse to come to termsK &y all means! he said. Then let us suppose that the reconciliation has been effected.

Will any one deny the other point! that there may be sons of kings or princes ho are by nature philosophersK )urely no man! he said. =nd hen they ha#e come into being ill any one say that they must of necessity be destroyedO that they can hardly be sa#ed is not denied e#en by usO but that in the hole course of ages no single one of them can escapeMM ho ill #enture to affirm thisK Who indeedD &ut! said -! one is enoughO let there be one man ho has a city obedient to his ill! and he might bring into existence the ideal polity about hich the orld is so incredulous. Les! one is enough. The ruler may impose the la s and institutions hich e ha#e been describing! and the citi7ens may possibly be illing to obey themK (ertainly. =nd that others should appro#e of hat e appro#e! is no miracle or impossibilityK - think not. &ut e ha#e sufficiently sho n! in hat has preceded! that all this! if only possible! is assuredly for the best. We ha#e. =nd no e say not only that our la s! if they could be enacted! ould be for the best! but also that the enactment of them! though difficult! is not impossible. %ery good. =nd so ith pain and toil e ha#e reached the end of one subject!

but more remains to be discussedOMMho and by hat studies and pursuits ill the sa#iours of the constitution be created! and at hat ages are they to apply themsel#es to their se#eral studiesK (ertainly. - omitted the troublesome business of the possession of omen! and the procreation of children! and the appointment of the rulers! because - kne that the perfect )tate ould be eyed ith jealousy and as difficult of attainmentO but that piece of cle#erness as not of much ser#ice to me! for - had to discuss them all the same. The omen and children are no disposed of! but the other Nuestion of the rulers must be in#estigated from the #ery beginning. We ere saying! as you ill remember! that they ere to be lo#ers of their country! tried by the test of pleasures and pains! and neither in hardships! nor in dangers! nor at any other critical moment ere to lose their patriotismMMhe as to be rejected ho failed! but he ho al ays came forth pure! like gold tried in the refiner.s fire! as to be made a ruler! and to recei#e honours and re ards in life and after death. This as the sort of thing hich as being said! and then the argument turned aside and #eiled her faceO not liking to stir the Nuestion hich has no arisen. - perfectly remember! he said. Les! my friend! - said! and - then shrank from ha7arding the bold ordO but no let me dare to sayMMthat the perfect guardian must be a philosopher. Les! he said! let that be affirmed. =nd do not suppose that there ill be many of themO for the gifts hich ere deemed by us to be essential rarely gro togetherO they are mostly found in shreds and patches. What do you meanK he said. Lou are a are! - replied! that Nuick intelligence! memory! sagacity! cle#erness! and similar Nualities! do not often gro together!

and that persons ho possess them and are at the same time highMspirited and magnanimous are not so constituted by nature as to li#e orderly and in a peaceful and settled mannerO they are dri#en any ay by their impulses! and all solid principle goes out of them. %ery true! he said. 8n the other hand! those steadfast natures hich can better be depended upon! hich in a battle are impregnable to fear and immo#able! are eNually immo#able hen there is anything to be learnedO they are al ays in a torpid state! and are apt to ya n and go to sleep o#er any intellectual toil. Puite true. =nd yet e ere saying that both Nualities ere necessary in those to hom the higher education is to be imparted! and ho are to share in any office or command. (ertainly! he said. =nd ill they be a class hich is rarely foundK Les! indeed. Then the aspirant must not only be tested in those labours and dangers and pleasures hich e mentioned before! but there is another kind of probation hich e did not mentionMMhe must be exercised also in many kinds of kno ledge! to see hether the soul ill be able to endure the highest of all! ill faint under them! as in any other studies and exercises. Les! he said! you are Nuite right in testing him. &ut hat do you mean by the highest of all kno ledgeK Lou may remember! - said! that e di#ided the soul into three partsO and distinguished the se#eral natures of justice! temperance! courage! and isdomK -ndeed! he said! if - had forgotten! - should not deser#e to hear more.

=nd do you remember the ord of caution hich preceded the discussion of themK To hat do you referK We ere saying! if - am not mistaken! that he ho anted to see them in their perfect beauty must take a longer and more circuitous ay! at the end of hich they ould appearO but that e could add on a popular exposition of them on a le#el ith the discussion hich had preceded. =nd you replied that such an exposition ould be enough for you! and so the enNuiry as continued in hat to me seemed to be a #ery inaccurate mannerO hether you ere satisfied or not! it is for you to say. Les! he said! - thought and the others thought that you ga#e us a fair measure of truth. &ut! my friend! - said! a measure of such things Which in any degree falls short of the hole truth is not fair measureO for nothing imperfect is the measure of anything! although persons are too apt to be contented and think that they need search no further. 9ot an uncommon case hen people are indolent. Les! - saidO and there cannot be any orse fault in a guardian of the )tate and of the la s. True. The guardian then! - said! must be reNuired to take the longer circuit! and toll at learning as ell as at gymnastics! or he ill ne#er reach the highest kno ledge of all hich! as e ere just no saying! is his proper calling. What! he said! is there a kno ledge still higher than thisMM higher than justice and the other #irtuesK Les! - said! there is. =nd of the #irtues too e must behold not the outline merely! as at presentMMnothing short of the most finished

picture should satisfy us. When little things are elaborated ith an infinity of pains! in order that they may appear in their full beauty and utmost clearness! ho ridiculous that e should not think the highest truths orthy of attaining the highest accuracyD = right noble thoughtO but do you suppose that e shall refrain from asking you hat is this highest kno ledgeK 9ay! - said! ask if you illO but - am certain that you ha#e heard the ans er many times! and no you either do not understand me or! as - rather think! you are disposed to be troublesomeO for you ha#e of been told that the idea of good is the highest kno ledge! and that all other things become useful and ad#antageous only by their use of this. Lou can hardly be ignorant that of this - as about to speak! concerning hich! as you ha#e often heard me say! e kno so littleO and! ithout hich! any other kno ledge or possession of any kind ill profit us nothing. "o you think that the possession of all other things is of any #alue if e do not possess the goodK or the kno ledge of all other things if e ha#e no kno ledge of beauty and goodnessK =ssuredly not. Lou are further a are that most people affirm pleasure to be the good! but the finer sort of its say it is kno ledge Les. =nd you are a are too that the latter cannot explain hat they mean by kno ledge! but are obliged after all to say kno ledge of the goodK 'o ridiculousD Les! - said! that they should begin by reproaching us ith our ignorance of the good! and then presume our kno ledge of itMM for the good they define to be kno ledge of the good! just as if e understood them hen they use the term Tgood.MMthis is of course ridiculous. ;ost true! he said.

=nd those ho make pleasure their good are in eNual perplexityO for they are compelled to admit that there are bad pleasures as ell as good. (ertainly. =nd therefore to ackno ledge that bad and good are the sameK True. There can be no doubt about the numerous difficulties in hich this Nuestion is in#ol#ed. There can be none. $urther! do e not see that many are illing to do or to ha#e or to seem to be hat is just and honourable ithout the realityO but no one is satisfied ith the appearance of goodMMthe reality is hat they seekO in the case of the good! appearance is despised by e#ery one. %ery true! he said. 8f this then! hich e#ery soul of man pursues and makes the end of all his actions! ha#ing a presentiment that there is such an end! and yet hesitating because neither kno ing the nature nor ha#ing the same assurance of this as of other things! and therefore losing hate#er good there is in other things!MMof a principle such and so great as this ought the best men in our )tate! to hom e#erything is entrusted! to be in the darkness of ignoranceK (ertainly not! he said. - am sure! - said! that he ho does not kno no the beautiful and the just are like ise good ill be but a sorry guardian of themO and - suspect that no one ho is ignorant of the good ill ha#e a true kno ledge of them. That! he said! is a shre d suspicion of yours.

=nd if e only ha#e a guardian ho has this kno ledge our )tate ill be perfectly orderedK 8f course! he repliedO but - ish that you ould tell me hether you concei#e this supreme principle of the good to be kno ledge or pleasure! or different from either. =ye! - said! - kne all along that a fastidious gentleman like you ould not be contented ith the thoughts of other people about these matters. True! )ocratesO but - must say that one ho like you has passed a lifetime in the study of philosophy should not be al ays repeating the opinions of others! and ne#er telling his o n. Well! but has any one a right to say positi#ely hat he does not kno K 9ot! he said! ith the assurance of positi#e certaintyO he has no right to do thatA but he may say hat he thinks! as a matter of opinion. =nd do you not kno ! - said! that all mere opinions are bad! and the best of them blindK Lou ould not deny that those ho ha#e any true notion ithout intelligence are only like blind men ho feel their ay along the roadK %ery true. =nd do you ish to behold hat is blind and crooked and base! hen others ill tell you of brightness and beautyK G<=:(89 M )8(R=TE) )till! - must implore you! )ocrates! said Glaucon! not to turn a ay just as you are reaching the goalO if you ill only gi#e such an explanation of the good as you ha#e already gi#en of justice and temperance and the other #irtues! e shall be satisfied. Les! my friend! and - shall be at least eNually satisfied! but - cannot help fearing that - shall fall! and that my indiscreet

7eal ill bring ridicule upon me. 9o! s eet sirs! let us not at present ask hat is the actual nature of the good! for to reach hat is no in my thoughts ould be an effort too great for me. &ut of the child of the good ho is likest him! - ould fain speak! if - could be sure that you ished to hearMMother ise! not. &y all means! he said! tell us about the child! and you shall remain in our debt for the account of the parent. - do indeed ish! - replied! that - could pay! and you recei#e! the account of the parent! and not! as no ! of the offspring onlyO take! ho e#er! this latter by ay of interest! and at the same time ha#e a care that i do not render a false account! although - ha#e no intention of decei#ing you. Les! e ill take all the care that e canA proceed. Les! - said! but - must first come to an understanding ith you! and remind you of hat - ha#e mentioned in the course of this discussion! and at many other times. WhatK The old story! that there is a many beautiful and a many good! and so of other things hich e describe and defineO to all of them Tmany. is applied. True! he said. =nd there is an absolute beauty and an absolute good! and of other things to hich the term Tmany. is applied there is an absoluteO for they may be brought under a single idea! hich is called the essence of each. %ery true. The many! as e say! are seen but not kno n! and the ideas are kno n but not seen. Exactly.

=nd hat is the organ ith hich e see the #isible thingsK The sight! he said. =nd ith the hearing! - said! e hear! and ith the other senses percei#e the other objects of senseK True. &ut ha#e you remarked that sight is by far the most costly and complex piece of orkmanship hich the artificer of the senses e#er contri#edK 9o! - ne#er ha#e! he said. Then reflectO has the ear or #oice need of any third or additional nature in order that the one may be able to hear and the other to be heardK 9othing of the sort. 9o! indeed! - repliedO and the same is true of most! if not all! the other sensesMMyou ould not say that any of them reNuires such an additionK (ertainly not. &ut you see that ithout the addition of some other nature there is no seeing or being seenK 'o do you meanK )ight being! as - concei#e! in the eyes! and he ho has eyes anting to seeO colour being also present in them! still unless there be a third nature specially adapted to the purpose! the o ner of the eyes ill see nothing and the colours ill be in#isible. 8f hat nature are you speakingK 8f that hich you term light! - replied.

True! he said. 9oble! then! is the bond hich links together sight and #isibility! and great beyond other bonds by no small difference of natureO for light is their bond! and light is no ignoble thingK 9ay! he said! the re#erse of ignoble. =nd hich! - said! of the gods in hea#en ould you say as the lord of this elementK Whose is that light hich makes the eye to see perfectly and the #isible to appearK Lou mean the sun! as you and all mankind say. ;ay not the relation of sight to this deity be described as follo sK 'o K 9either sight nor the eye in hich sight resides is the sunK 9o. Let of all the organs of sense the eye is the most like the sunK &y far the most like. =nd the po er hich the eye possesses is a sort of effluence hich is dispensed from the sunK Exactly. Then the sun is not sight! but the author of sight ho is recognised by sight. True! he said. =nd this is he hom - call the child of the good! hom the good begat in his o n likeness! to be in the #isible orld! in relation to sight and the things of sight! hat the good is in the intellectual

orld in relation to mind and the things of mind. Will you be a little more explicitK he said. Why! you kno ! - said! that the eyes! hen a person directs them to ards objects on hich the light of day is no longer shining! but the moon and stars only! see dimly! and are nearly blindO they seem to ha#e no clearness of #ision in themK %ery true. &ut hen they are directed to ards objects on hich the sun shines! they see clearly and there is sight in themK (ertainly. =nd the soul is like the eyeA hen resting upon that on hich truth and being shine! the soul percei#es and understands and is radiant ith intelligenceO but hen turned to ards the t ilight of becoming and perishing! then she has opinion only! and goes blinking about! and is first of one opinion and then of another! and seems to ha#e no intelligenceK /ust so. 9o ! that hich imparts truth to the kno n and the po er of kno ing to the kno er is hat - ould ha#e you term the idea of good! and this you ill deem to be the cause of science! and of truth in so far as the latter becomes the subject of kno ledgeO beautiful too! as are both truth and kno ledge! you ill be right in esteeming this other nature as more beautiful than eitherO and! as in the pre#ious instance! light and sight may be truly said to be like the sun! and yet not to be the sun! so in this other sphere! science and truth may be deemed to be like the good! but not the goodO the good has a place of honour yet higher. What a onder of beauty that must be! he said! hich is the author of science and truth! and yet surpasses them in beautyO for you surely cannot mean to say that pleasure is the goodK

God forbid! - repliedO but may - ask you to consider the image in another point of #ie K -n hat point of #ie K Lou ould say! ould you not! that the sun is only the author of #isibility in all #isible things! but of generation and nourishment and gro th! though he himself is not generationK (ertainly. -n like manner the good may be said to be not only the author of kno ledge to all things kno n! but of their being and essence! and yet the good is not essence! but far exceeds essence in dignity and po er. Glaucon said! ith a ludicrous earnestnessA &y the light of hea#en! ho ama7ingD Les! - said! and the exaggeration may be set do n to youO for you made me utter my fancies. =nd pray continue to utter themO at any rate let us hear if there is anything more to be said about the similitude of the sun. Les! - said! there is a great deal more. Then omit nothing! ho e#er slight. - ill do my best! - saidO but - should think that a great deal ill ha#e to be omitted. Lou ha#e to imagine! then! that there are t o ruling po ers! and that one of them is set o#er the intellectual orld! the other o#er the #isible. - do not say hea#en! lest you should fancy that - am playing upon the name >.ourhano7! orhato7.?. ;ay - suppose that you ha#e this distinction of the #isible and intelligible fixed in your mindK - ha#e.

9o take a line hich has been cut into t o uneNual parts! and di#ide each of them again in the same proportion! and suppose the t o main di#isions to ans er! one to the #isible and the other to the intelligible! and then compare the subdi#isions in respect of their clearness and ant of clearness! and you ill find that the first section in the sphere of the #isible consists of images. =nd by images - mean! in the first place! shado s! and in the second place! reflections in ater and in solid! smooth and polished bodies and the likeA "o you understandK Les! - understand. -magine! no ! the other section! of hich this is only the resemblance! to include the animals hich e see! and e#erything that gro s or is made. %ery good. Would you not admit that both the sections of this di#ision ha#e different degrees of truth! and that the copy is to the original as the sphere of opinion is to the sphere of kno ledgeK ;ost undoubtedly. 9ext proceed to consider the manner in hich the sphere of the intellectual is to be di#ided. -n hat mannerK ThusAMMThere are t o subdi#isions! in the lo er or hich the soul uses the figures gi#en by the former di#ision as imagesO the enNuiry can only be hypothetical! and instead of going up ards to a principle descends to the other endO in the higher of the t o! the soul passes out of hypotheses! and goes up to a principle hich is abo#e hypotheses! making no use of images as in the former case! but proceeding only in and through the ideas themsel#es. - do not Nuite understand your meaning! he said. Then - ill try againO you ill understand me better hen ha#e made some preliminary remarks. Lou are a are that students

of geometry! arithmetic! and the kindred sciences assume the odd and the e#en and the figures and three kinds of angles and the like in their se#eral branches of scienceO these are their hypotheses! hich they and e#erybody are supposed to kno ! and therefore they do not deign to gi#e any account of them either to themsel#es or othersO but they begin ith them! and go on until they arri#e at last! and in a consistent manner! at their conclusionK Les! he said! - kno . =nd do you not kno also that although they make use of the #isible forms and reason about them! they are thinking not of these! but of the ideals hich they resembleO not of the figures hich they dra ! but of the absolute sNuare and the absolute diameter! and so onMM the forms hich they dra or make! and hich ha#e shado s and reflections in ater of their o n! are con#erted by them into images! but they are really seeking to behold the things themsel#es! hich can only be seen ith the eye of the mindK That is true. =nd of this kind - spoke as the intelligible! although in the search after it the soul is compelled to use hypothesesO not ascending to a first principle! because she is unable to rise abo#e the region of hypothesis! but employing the objects of hich the shado s belo are resemblances in their turn as images! they ha#ing in relation to the shado s and reflections of them a greater distinctness! and therefore a higher #alue. - understand! he said! that you are speaking of the pro#ince of geometry and the sister arts. =nd hen - speak of the other di#ision of the intelligible! you ill understand me to speak of that other sort of kno ledge hich reason herself attains by the po er of dialectic! using the hypotheses not as first principles! but only as hypothesesMM that is to say! as steps and points of departure into a orld hich is abo#e hypotheses! in order that she may soar beyond them to the first principle of the holeO and clinging to this and then to that hich depends on this! by successi#e steps she descends again

ithout the aid of any sensible object! from ideas! through ideas! and in ideas she ends. - understand you! he repliedO not perfectly! for you seem to me to be describing a task hich is really tremendousO but! at any rate! - understand you to say that kno ledge and being! hich the science of dialectic contemplates! are clearer than the notions of the arts! as they are termed! hich proceed from hypotheses onlyA these are also contemplated by the understanding! and not by the sensesA yet! because they start from hypotheses and do not ascend to a principle! those ho contemplate them appear to you not to exercise the higher reason upon them! although hen a first principle is added to them they are cogni7able by the higher reason. =nd the habit hich is concerned ith geometry and the cognate sciences - suppose that you ould term understanding and not reason! as being intermediate bet een opinion and reason. Lou ha#e Nuite concei#ed my meaning! - saidO and no ! corresponding to these four di#isions! let there be four faculties in the soulMreason ans ering to the highest! understanding to the second! faith >or con#iction? to the third! and perception of shado s to the lastMand let there be a scale of them! and let us suppose that the se#eral faculties ha#e clearness in the same degree that their objects ha#e truth. - understand! he replied! and gi#e my assent! and accept your arrangement.

&88Q %-)8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 =9" no ! - said! let me sho in a figure ho far our nature is enlightened or unenlightenedAMM&eholdD human beings li#ing in a underground den! hich has a mouth open to ards the light and reaching all along the denO here they ha#e been from their childhood! and ha#e their legs and necks chained so that they cannot mo#e! and can only see before them! being pre#ented by the chains from turning round their heads.

=bo#e and behind them a fire is bla7ing at a distance! and bet een the fire and the prisoners there is a raised ayO and you ill see! if you look! a lo all built along the ay! like the screen hich marionette players ha#e in front of them! o#er hich they sho the puppets. - see. =nd do you see! - said! men passing along the all carrying all sorts of #essels! and statues and figures of animals made of ood and stone and #arious materials! hich appear o#er the allK )ome of them are talking! others silent. Lou ha#e sho n me a strange image! and they are strange prisoners. <ike oursel#es! - repliedO and they see only their o n shado s! or the shado s of one another! hich the fire thro s on the opposite all of the ca#eK True! he saidO ho could they see anything but the shado s if they ere ne#er allo ed to mo#e their headsK =nd of the objects hich are being carried in like manner they ould only see the shado sK Les! he said. =nd if they ere able to con#erse ith one another! ould they not suppose that they ere naming hat as actually before themK %ery true. =nd suppose further that the prison had an echo hich came from the other side! ould they not be sure to fancy hen one of the passersMby spoke that the #oice hich they heard came from the passing shado K 9o Nuestion! he replied. To them! - said! the truth ould be literally nothing but the shado s of the images.

That is certain. =nd no look again! and see hat ill naturally follo it. the prisoners are released and disabused of their error. =t first! hen any of them is liberated and compelled suddenly to stand up and turn his neck round and alk and look to ards the light! he ill suffer sharp painsO the glare ill distress him! and he ill be unable to see the realities of hich in his former state he had seen the shado sO and then concei#e some one saying to him! that hat he sa before as an illusion! but that no ! hen he is approaching nearer to being and his eye is turned to ards more real existence! he has a clearer #ision! M hat ill be his replyK =nd you may further imagine that his instructor is pointing to the objects as they pass and reNuiring him to name them! M ill he not be perplexedK Will he not fancy that the shado s hich he formerly sa are truer than the objects hich are no sho n to himK $ar truer. =nd if he is compelled to look straight at the light! ill he not ha#e a pain in his eyes hich ill make him turn a ay to take and take in the objects of #ision hich he can see! and hich he ill concei#e to be in reality clearer than the things hich are no being sho n to himK True! he no =nd suppose once more! that he is reluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged ascent! and held fast until he.s forced into the presence of the sun himself! is he not likely to be pained and irritatedK When he approaches the light his eyes ill be da77led! and he ill not be able to see anything at all of hat are no called realities. 9ot all in a moment! he said. 'e ill reNuire to gro accustomed to the sight of the upper orld. =nd first he ill see the shado s best! next the reflections of men and other objects in the ater! and then the objects themsel#esO

then he ill ga7e upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled hea#enO and he ill see the sky and the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by dayK (ertainly. <ast of he ill be able to see the sun! and not mere reflections of him in the ater! but he ill see him in his o n proper place! and not in anotherO and he ill contemplate him as he is. (ertainly. 'e ill then proceed to argue that this is he ho gi#es the season and the years! and is the guardian of all that is in the #isible orld! and in a certain ay the cause of all things hich he and his fello s ha#e been accustomed to beholdK (learly! he said! he ould first see the sun and then reason about him. =nd hen he remembered his old habitation! and the isdom of the den and his fello Mprisoners! do you not suppose that he ould felicitate himself on the change! and pity themK (ertainly! he ould. =nd if they ere in the habit of conferring honours among themsel#es on those ho ere Nuickest to obser#e the passing shado s and to remark hich of them ent before! and hich follo ed after! and hich ere togetherO and ho ere therefore best able to dra conclusions as to the future! do you think that he ould care for such honours and glories! or en#y the possessors of themK Would he not say ith 'omer! &etter to be the poor ser#ant of a poor master! and to endure anything! rather than think as they do and li#e after their mannerK Les! he said! - think that he ould rather suffer anything than entertain these false notions and li#e in this miserable manner.

-magine once more! - said! such an one coming suddenly out of the sun to be replaced in his old situationO ould he not be certain to ha#e his eyes full of darknessK To be sure! he said. =nd if there ere a contest! and he had to compete in measuring the shado s ith the prisoners ho had ne#er mo#ed out of the den! hile his sight as still eak! and before his eyes had become steady >and the time hich ould be needed to acNuire this ne habit of sight might be #ery considerable? ould he not be ridiculousK ;en ould say of him that up he ent and do n he came ithout his eyesO and that it as better not e#en to think of ascendingO and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light! let them only catch the offender! and they ould put him to death. 9o Nuestion! he said. This entire allegory! - said! you may no append! dear Glaucon! to the pre#ious argumentO the prisonMhouse is the orld of sight! the light of the fire is the sun! and you ill not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey up ards to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual orld according to my poor belief! hich! at your desire! - ha#e expressed hether rightly or rongly God kno s. &ut! hether true or false! my opinion is that in the orld of kno ledge the idea of good appears last of all! and is seen only ith an effortO and! hen seen! is also inferred to be the uni#ersal author of all things beautiful and right! parent of light and of the lord of light in this #isible orld! and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectualO and that this is the po er upon hich he ho ould act rationally! either in public or pri#ate life must ha#e his eye fixed. - agree! he said! as far as - am able to understand you. ;oreo#er! - said! you must not onder that those ho attain to this beatific #ision are un illing to descend to human affairsO for their souls are e#er hastening into the upper orld here they

desire to d ellO hich desire of theirs is #ery natural! if our allegory may be trusted. Les! #ery natural. =nd is there anything surprising in one ho passes from di#ine contemplations to the e#il state of man! misbeha#ing himself in a ridiculous mannerO if! hile his eyes are blinking and before he has become accustomed to the surrounding darkness! he is compelled to fight in courts of la ! or in other places! about the images or the shado s of images of justice! and is endea#ouring to meet the conceptions of those ho ha#e ne#er yet seen absolute justiceK =nything but surprising! he replied. =ny one ho has common sense ill remember that the be ilderments of the eyes are of t o kinds! and arise from t o causes! either from coming out of the light or from going into the light! hich is true of the mind.s eye! Nuite as much as of the bodily eyeO and he ho remembers this hen he sees any one hose #ision is perplexed and eak! ill not be too ready to laughO he ill first ask hether that soul of man has come out of the brighter light! and is unable to see because unaccustomed to the dark! or ha#ing turned from darkness to the day is da77led by excess of light. =nd he ill count the one happy in his condition and state of being! and he ill pity the otherO or! if he ha#e a mind to laugh at the soul hich comes from belo into the light! there ill be more reason in this than in the laugh hich greets him ho returns from abo#e out of the light into the den. That! he said! is a #ery just distinction. &ut then! if - am right! certain professors of education must be rong hen they say that they can put a kno ledge into the soul hich as not there before! like sight into blind eyes. They undoubtedly say this! he replied. Whereas! our argument sho s that the po er and capacity of learning exists in the soul alreadyO and that just as the eye

as unable to turn from darkness to light ithout the hole body! so too the instrument of kno ledge can only by the mo#ement of the hole soul be turned from the orld of becoming into that of being! and learn by degrees to endure the sight of being! and of the brightest and best of being! or in other ords! of the good. %ery true. =nd must there not be some art hich ill effect con#ersion in the easiest and Nuickest mannerO not implanting the faculty of sight! for that exists already! but has been turned in the rong direction! and is looking a ay from the truthK Les! he said! such an art may be presumed. =nd hereas the other soMcalled #irtues of the soul seem to be akin to bodily Nualities! for e#en hen they are not originally innate they can be implanted later by habit and exercise! the of isdom more than anything else contains a di#ine element hich al ays remains! and by this con#ersion is rendered useful and profitableO or! on the other hand! hurtful and useless. "id you ne#er obser#e the narro intelligence flashing from the keen eye of a cle#er rogueMMho eager he is! ho clearly his paltry soul sees the ay to his endO he is the re#erse of blind! but his keen eyesight is forced into the ser#ice of e#il! and he is mischie#ous in proportion to his cle#erness. %ery true! he said. &ut hat if there had been a circumcision of such natures in the days of their youthO and they had been se#ered from those sensual pleasures! such as eating and drinking! hich! like leaden eights! ere attached to them at their birth! and hich drag them do n and turn the #ision of their souls upon the things that are belo MMif! - say! they had been released from these impediments and turned in the opposite direction! the #ery same faculty in them ould ha#e seen the truth as keenly as they see hat their eyes are turned to no . %ery likely.

Les! - saidO and there is another thing hich is likely. or rather a necessary inference from hat has preceded! that neither the uneducated and uninformed of the truth! nor yet those ho ne#er make an end of their education! ill be able ministers of )tateO not the former! because they ha#e no single aim of duty hich is the rule of all their actions! pri#ate as ell as publicO nor the latter! because they ill not act at all except upon compulsion! fancying that they are already d elling apart in the islands of the blest. %ery true! he replied. Then! - said! the business of us ho are the founders of the )tate ill be to compel the best minds to attain that kno ledge hich e ha#e already sho n to be the greatest of allMthey must continue to ascend until they arri#e at the goodO but hen they ha#e ascended and seen enough e must not allo them to do as they do no . What do you meanK - mean that they remain in the upper orldA but this must not be allo edO they must be made to descend again among the prisoners in the den! and partake of their labours and honours! hether they are orth ha#ing or not. &ut is not this unjustK he saidO ought e to gi#e them a orse life! hen they might ha#e a betterK Lou ha#e again forgotten! my friend! - said! the intention of the legislator! ho did not aim at making any one class in the )tate happy abo#e the restO the happiness as to be in the hole )tate! and he held the citi7ens together by persuasion and necessity! making them benefactors of the )tate! and therefore benefactors of one anotherO to this end he created them! not to please themsel#es! but to be his instruments in binding up the )tate. True! he said! - had forgotten. 8bser#e! Glaucon! that there ill be no injustice in compelling our philosophers to ha#e a care and pro#idence of othersO e shall

explain to them that in other )tates! men of their class are not obliged to share in the toils of politicsA and this is reasonable! for they gro up at their o n s eet ill! and the go#ernment ould rather not ha#e them. &eing selfMtaught! they cannot be expected to sho any gratitude for a culture hich they ha#e ne#er recei#ed. &ut e ha#e brought you into the orld to be rulers of the hi#e! kings of yoursel#es and of the other citi7ens! and ha#e educated you far better and more perfectly than they ha#e been educated! and you are better able to share in the double duty. Wherefore each of you! hen his turn comes! must go do n to the general underground abode! and get the habit of seeing in the dark. When you ha#e acNuired the habit! you ill see ten thousand times better than the inhabitants of the den! and you ill kno hat the se#eral images are! and hat they represent! because you ha#e seen the beautiful and just and good in their truth. =nd thus our )tate hich is also yours ill be a reality! and not a dream only! and ill be administered in a spirit unlike that of other )tates! in hich men fight ith one another about shado s only and are distracted in the struggle for po er! hich in their eyes is a great good. Whereas the truth is that the )tate in hich the rulers are most reluctant to go#ern is al ays the best and most Nuietly go#erned! and the )tate in hich they are most eager! the orst. Puite true! he replied. =nd ill our pupils! hen they hear this! refuse to take their turn at the toils of )tate! hen they are allo ed to spend the greater part of their time ith one another in the hea#enly lightK -mpossible! he ans eredO for they are just men! and the commands hich e impose upon them are justO there can be no doubt that e#ery one of them ill take office as a stern necessity! and not after the fashion of our present rulers of )tate. Les! my friend! - saidO and there lies the point. Lou must contri#e for your future rulers another and a better life than that of a ruler! and then you may ha#e a ellMordered )tateO for only in the )tate hich offers this! ill they rule ho are truly rich! not in sil#er and gold! but in #irtue and isdom! hich are the true blessings of life. Whereas if they go to the administration of public affairs!

poor and hungering after the. o n pri#ate ad#antage! thinking that hence they are to snatch the chief good! order there can ne#er beO for they ill be fighting about office! and the ci#il and domestic broils hich thus arise ill be the ruin of the rulers themsel#es and of the hole )tate. ;ost true! he replied. =nd the only life hich looks do n upon the life of political ambition is that of true philosophy. "o you kno of any otherK -ndeed! - do not! he said. =nd those ho go#ern ought not to be lo#ers of the taskK $or! if they are! there ill be ri#al lo#ers! and they ill fight. 9o Nuestion. Who then are those hom e shall compel to be guardiansK )urely they ill be the men ho are isest about affairs of )tate! and by hom the )tate is best administered! and ho at the same time ha#e other honours and another and a better life than that of politicsK They are the men! and - ill choose them! he replied. =nd no shall e consider in hat ay such guardians ill be produced! and ho they are to be brought from darkness to light!MMas some are said to ha#e ascended from the orld belo to the godsK &y all means! he replied. The process! - said! is not the turning o#er of an oysterMshell! but the turning round of a soul passing from a day hich is little better than night to the true day of being! that is! the ascent from belo ! hich e affirm to be true philosophyK Puite so. =nd should e not enNuire hat sort of kno ledge has the po er

of effecting such a changeK (ertainly. What sort of kno ledge is there hich ould dra the soul from becoming to beingK =nd another consideration has just occurred to meA Lou ill remember that our young men are to be arrior athletes Les! that as said. Then this ne kind of kno ledge must ha#e an additional NualityK What NualityK :sefulness in ar. Les! if possible. There ere t o parts in our former scheme of education! ere there notK /ust so. There as gymnastic hich presided o#er the gro th and decay of the body! and may therefore be regarded as ha#ing to do ith generation and corruptionK True. Then that is not the kno ledge hich e are seeking to disco#erK 9o. &ut hat do you say of music! hich also entered to a certain extent into our former schemeK ;usic! he said! as you ill remember! as the counterpart of gymnastic! and trained the guardians by the influences of habit! by harmony making them harmonious! by rhythm rhythmical! but not gi#ing them scienceO and the ords! hether fabulous or possibly true! had kindred elements of rhythm and harmony in them. &ut in music there as nothing hich tended to that good hich you are no seeking.

Lou are most accurate! - said! in your recollectionO in music there certainly as nothing of the kind. &ut hat branch of kno ledge is there! my dear Glaucon! hich is of the desired natureO since all the useful arts ere reckoned mean by usK :ndoubtedlyO and yet if music and gymnastic are excluded! and the arts are also excluded! hat remainsK Well! - said! there may be nothing left of our special subjectsO and then e shall ha#e to take something hich is not special! but of uni#ersal application. What may that beK = something hich all arts and sciences and intelligences use in common! and hich e#ery one first has to learn among the elements of education. What is thatK The little matter of distinguishing one! t o! and threeMMin a ord! number and calculationAMMdo not all arts and sciences necessarily partake of themK Les. Then the art of ar partakes of themK To the sure. Then Palamedes! hene#er he appears in tragedy! pro#es =gamemnon ridiculously unfit to be a general. "id you ne#er remark ho he declares that he had in#ented number! and had numbered the ships and set in array the ranks of the army at TroyO hich implies that they had ne#er been numbered before! and =gamemnon must be supposed literally to ha#e been incapable of counting his o n feetMM ho could he if he as ignorant of numberK =nd if that is true! hat sort of general must he ha#e beenK

- should say a #ery strange one! if this as as you say. (an e deny that a arrior should ha#e a kno ledge of arithmeticK (ertainly he should! if he is to ha#e the smallest understanding of military tactics! or indeed! - should rather say! if he is to be a man at all. - should like to kno ha#e of this studyK What is your notionK -t appears to me to be a study of the kind hich e are seeking! and hich leads naturally to reflection! but ne#er to ha#e been rightly usedO for the true use of it is simply to dra the soul to ards being. Will you explain your meaningK he said. - ill try! - saidO and - ish you ould share the enNuiry ith me! and say Tyes. or Tno. hen - attempt to distinguish in my o n mind hat branches of kno ledge ha#e this attracting po er! in order that e may ha#e clearer proof that arithmetic is! as - suspect! one of them. Explain! he said. - mean to say that objects of sense are of t o kindsO some of them do not in#ite thought because the sense is an adeNuate judge of themO hile in the case of other objects sense is so untrust orthy that further enNuiry is imperati#ely demanded. Lou are clearly referring! he said! to the manner in hich the senses are imposed upon by distance! and by painting in light and shade. 9o! - said! that is not at all my meaning. Then hat is your meaningK hether you ha#e the same notion hich -

When speaking of unin#iting objects! - mean those hich do not pass from one sensation to the oppositeO in#iting objects are those hich doO in this latter case the sense coming upon the object! hether at a distance or near! gi#es no more #i#id idea of anything in particular than of its opposite. =n illustration ill make my meaning clearerAMM here are three fingersMMa little finger! a second finger! and a middle finger. %ery good. Lou may suppose that they are seen Nuite closeA =nd here comes the point. What is itK Each of them eNually appears a finger! hether seen in the middle or at the extremity! hether hite or black! or thick or thinMM it makes no differenceO a finger is a finger all the same. -n these cases a man is not compelled to ask of thought the Nuestion! hat is a fingerK for the sight ne#er intimates to the mind that a finger is other than a finger. True. =nd therefore! - said! as e might expect! there is nothing here hich in#ites or excites intelligence. There is not! he said. &ut is this eNually true of the greatness and smallness of the fingersK (an sight adeNuately percei#e themK and is no difference made by the circumstance that one of the fingers is in the middle and another at the extremityK =nd in like manner does the touch adeNuately percei#e the Nualities of thickness or thinness! or softness or hardnessK =nd so of the other sensesO do they gi#e perfect intimations of such mattersK -s not their mode of operation on this iseMM the sense hich is concerned ith the Nuality of hardness is necessarily concerned also ith the Nuality of softness! and only intimates to the soul that the same thing is felt to be both hard and softK

Lou are Nuite right! he said. =nd must not the soul be perplexed at this intimation hich the sense gi#es of a hard hich is also softK What! again! is the meaning of light and hea#y! if that hich is light is also hea#y! and that hich is hea#y! lightK Les! he said! these intimations hich the soul recei#es are #ery curious and reNuire to be explained. Les! - said! and in these perplexities the soul naturally summons to her aid calculation and intelligence! that she may see hether the se#eral objects announced to her are one or t o. True. =nd if they turn out to be t o! is not each of them one and differentK (ertainly. =nd if each is one! and both are t o! she ill concei#e the t o as in a state of di#ision! for if there ere undi#ided they could only be concei#ed of as oneK True. The eye certainly did see both small and great! but only in a confused mannerO they ere not distinguished. Les. Whereas the thinking mind! intending to light up the chaos! as compelled to re#erse the process! and look at small and great as separate and not confused. %ery true. Was not this the beginning of the enNuiry TWhat is greatK. and TWhat is smallK.

Exactly so. =nd thus arose the distinction of the #isible and the intelligible. ;ost true. This as hat - meant hen - spoke of impressions hich in#ited the intellect! or the re#erseMMthose hich are simultaneous ith opposite impressions! in#ite thoughtO those hich are not simultaneous do not. - understand! he said! and agree ith you. =nd to hich class do unity and number belongK - do not kno ! he replied. Think a little and you ill see that hat has preceded ill supply the ans erO for if simple unity could be adeNuately percei#ed by the sight or by any other sense! then! as e ere saying in the case of the finger! there ould be nothing to attract to ards beingO but hen there is some contradiction al ays present! and one is the re#erse of one and in#ol#es the conception of plurality! then thought begins to be aroused ithin us! and the soul perplexed and anting to arri#e at a decision asks TWhat is absolute unityK. This is the ay in hich the study of the one has a po er of dra ing and con#erting the mind to the contemplation of true being. =nd surely! he said! this occurs notably in the case of oneO for e see the same thing to be both one and infinite in multitudeK Les! - saidO and this being true of one must be eNually true of all numberK (ertainly. =nd all arithmetic and calculation ha#e to do ith numberK Les.

=nd they appear to lead the mind to ards truthK Les! in a #ery remarkable manner. Then this is kno ledge of the kind for hich e are seeking! ha#ing a double use! military and philosophicalO for the man of ar must learn the art of number or he ill not kno ho to array his troops! and the philosopher also! because he has to rise out of the sea of change and lay hold of true being! and therefore he must be an arithmetician. That is true. =nd our guardian is both arrior and philosopherK (ertainly. Then this is a kind of kno ledge hich legislation may fitly prescribeO and e must endea#our to persuade those ho are prescribe to be the principal men of our )tate to go and learn arithmetic! not as amateurs! but they must carry on the study until they see the nature of numbers ith the mind onlyO nor again! like merchants or retailMtraders! ith a #ie to buying or selling! but for the sake of their military use! and of the soul herselfO and because this ill be the easiest ay for her to pass from becoming to truth and being. That is excellent! he said. Les! - said! and no ha#ing spoken of it! - must add ho charming the science isD and in ho many ays it conduces to our desired end! if pursued in the spirit of a philosopher! and not of a shopkeeperD 'o do you meanK - mean! as - as saying! that arithmetic has a #ery great and ele#ating effect! compelling the soul to reason about abstract number! and rebelling against the introduction of #isible or tangible objects into the argument. Lou kno ho steadily the masters of

the art repel and ridicule any one ho attempts to di#ide absolute unity hen he is calculating! and if you di#ide! they multiply! taking care that one shall continue one and not become lost in fractions. That is #ery true. 9o ! suppose a person ere to say to themA 8 my friends! hat are these onderful numbers about hich you are reasoning! in hich! as you say! there is a unity such as you demand! and each unit is eNual! in#ariable! indi#isible!MM hat ould they ans erK They ould ans er! as - should concei#e! that they ere speaking of those numbers hich can only be realised in thought. Then you see that this kno ledge may be truly called necessary! necessitating as it clearly does the use of the pure intelligence in the attainment of pure truthK LesO that is a marked characteristic of it. =nd ha#e you further obser#ed! that those ho ha#e a natural talent for calculation are generally Nuick at e#ery other kind of kno ledgeO and e#en the dull if they ha#e had an arithmetical training! although they may deri#e no other ad#antage from it! al ays become much Nuicker than they ould other ise ha#e been. %ery true! he said. =nd indeed! you ill not easily find a more difficult study! and not many as difficult. Lou ill not. =nd! for all these reasons! arithmetic is a kind of kno ledge in hich the best natures should be trained! and hich must not be gi#en up. - agree. <et this then be made one of our subjects of education. =nd next! shall e enNuire hether the kindred science also concerns usK

Lou mean geometryK Exactly so. (learly! he said! e are concerned ith that part of geometry hich relates to arO for in pitching a camp! or taking up a position! or closing or extending the lines of an army! or any other military manoeu#re! hether in actual battle or on a march! it ill make all the difference hether a general is or is not a geometrician. Les! - said! but for that purpose a #ery little of either geometry or calculation ill be enoughO the Nuestion relates rather to the greater and more ad#anced part of geometryMM hether that tends in any degree to make more easy the #ision of the idea of goodO and thither! as - as saying! all things tend hich compel the soul to turn her ga7e to ards that place! here is the full perfection of being! hich she ought! by all means! to behold. True! he said. Then if geometry compels us to #ie being! it concerns usO if becoming only! it does not concern usK Les! that is hat e assert. Let anybody ho has the least acNuaintance ith geometry ill not deny that such a conception of the science is in flat contradiction to the ordinary language of geometricians. 'o soK They ha#e in #ie practice only! and are al ays speakingK in a narro and ridiculous manner! of sNuaring and extending and applying and the likeMM they confuse the necessities of geometry ith those of daily lifeO hereas kno ledge is the real object of the hole science. (ertainly! he said.

Then must not a further admission be madeK What admissionK That the kno ledge at hich geometry aims is kno ledge of the eternal! and not of aught perishing and transient. That! he replied! may be readily allo ed! and is true. Then! my noble friend! geometry ill dra the soul to ards truth! and create the spirit of philosophy! and raise up that hich is no unhappily allo ed to fall do n. 9othing ill be more likely to ha#e such an effect. Then nothing should be more sternly laid do n than that the inhabitants of your fair city should by all means learn geometry. ;oreo#er the science has indirect effects! hich are not small. 8f hat kindK he said. There are the military ad#antages of hich you spoke! - saidO and in all departments of kno ledge! as experience pro#es! any one ho has studied geometry is infinitely Nuicker of apprehension than one ho has not. Les indeed! he said! there is an infinite difference bet een them. Then shall e propose this as a second branch of kno ledge hich our youth ill studyK <et us do so! he replied. =nd suppose e make astronomy the thirdMM hat do you sayK - am strongly inclined to it! he saidO the obser#ation of the seasons and of months and years is as essential to the general as it is to the farmer or sailor. - am amused! - said! at your fear of the orld! hich makes you

guard against the appearance of insisting upon useless studiesO and - Nuite admit the difficulty of belie#ing that in e#ery man there is an eye of the soul hich! hen by other pursuits lost and dimmed! is by these purified and reMilluminedO and is more precious far than ten thousand bodily eyes! for by it alone is truth seen. 9o there are t o classes of personsA one class of those ho ill agree ith you and ill take your ords as a re#elationO another class to hom they ill be utterly unmeaning! and ho ill naturally deem them to be idle tales! for they see no sort of profit hich is to be obtained from them. =nd therefore you had better decide at once ith hich of the t o you are proposing to argue. Lou ill #ery likely say ith neither! and that your chief aim in carrying on the argument is your o n impro#ementO at the same time you do not grudge to others any benefit hich they may recei#e. - think that - should prefer to carry on the argument mainly on my o n behalf. Then take a step back ard! for e ha#e gone rong in the order of the sciences. What as the mistakeK he said. =fter plane geometry! - said! e proceeded at once to solids in re#olution! instead of taking solids in themsel#esO hereas after the second dimension the third! hich is concerned ith cubes and dimensions of depth! ought to ha#e follo ed. That is true! )ocratesO but so little seems to be kno n as yet about these subjects. Why! yes! - said! and for t o reasonsAMMin the first place! no go#ernment patronises themO this leads to a ant of energy in the pursuit of them! and they are difficultO in the second place! students cannot learn them unless they ha#e a director. &ut then a director can hardly be found! and e#en if he could! as matters no stand! the students! ho are #ery conceited! ould not attend to him. That! ho e#er! ould be other ise if the hole )tate became the director of these studies and ga#e honour to themO

then disciples ould ant to come! and there ould be continuous and earnest search! and disco#eries ould be madeO since e#en no ! disregarded as they are by the orld! and maimed of their fair proportions! and although none of their #otaries can tell the use of them! still these studies force their ay by their natural charm! and #ery likely! if they had the help of the )tate! they ould some day emerge into light. Les! he said! there is a remarkable charm in them. &ut - do not clearly understand the change in the order. $irst you began ith a geometry of plane surfacesK Les! - said. =nd you placed astronomy next! and then you made a step back ardK Les! and - ha#e delayed you by my hurryO the ludicrous state of solid geometry! hich! in natural order! should ha#e follo ed! made me pass o#er this branch and go on to astronomy! or motion of solids. True! he said. Then assuming that the science no omitted ould come into existence if encouraged by the )tate! let us go on to astronomy! hich ill be fourth. The right order! he replied. =nd no ! )ocrates! as you rebuked the #ulgar manner in hich - praised astronomy before! my praise shall be gi#en in your o n spirit. $or e#ery one! as - think! must see that astronomy compels the soul to look up ards and leads us from this orld to another. E#ery one but myself! - saidO to e#ery one else this may be clear! but not to me. =nd hat then ould you sayK - should rather say that those ho ele#ate astronomy into philosophy appear to me to make us look do n ards and not up ards.

What do you meanK he asked. Lou! - replied! ha#e in your mind a truly sublime conception of our kno ledge of the things abo#e. =nd - dare say that if a person ere to thro his head back and study the fretted ceiling! you ould still think that his mind as the percipient! and not his eyes. =nd you are #ery likely right! and - may be a simpletonA but! in my opinion! that kno ledge only hich is of being and of the unseen can make the soul look up ards! and hether a man gapes at the hea#ens or blinks on the ground! seeking to learn some particular of sense! - ould deny that he can learn! for nothing of that sort is matter of scienceO his soul is looking do n ards! not up ards! hether his ay to kno ledge is by ater or by land! hether he floats! or only lies on his back. - ackno ledge! he said! the justice of your rebuke. )till! - should like to ascertain ho astronomy can be learned in any manner more conduci#e to that kno ledge of hich e are speakingK - ill tell you! - saidA The starry hea#en hich e behold is rought upon a #isible ground! and therefore! although the fairest and most perfect of #isible things! must necessarily be deemed inferior far to the true motions of absolute s iftness and absolute slo ness! hich are relati#e to each other! and carry ith them that hich is contained in them! in the true number and in e#ery true figure. 9o ! these are to be apprehended by reason and intelligence! but not by sight. True! he replied. The spangled hea#ens should be used as a pattern and ith a #ie to that higher kno ledgeO their beauty is like the beauty of figures or pictures excellently rought by the hand of "aedalus! or some other great artist! hich e may chance to beholdO any geometrician ho sa them ould appreciate the exNuisiteness of their orkmanship! but he ould ne#er dream of thinking that in them he could find the true eNual or the true double! or the truth of any other proportion.

9o! he replied! such an idea ould be ridiculous. =nd ill not a true astronomer ha#e the same feeling hen he looks at the mo#ements of the starsK Will he not think that hea#en and the things in hea#en are framed by the (reator of them in the most perfect mannerK &ut he ill ne#er imagine that the proportions of night and day! or of both to the month! or of the month to the year! or of the stars to these and to one another! and any other things that are material and #isible can also be eternal and subject to no de#iationMM that ould be absurdO and it is eNually absurd to take so much pains in in#estigating their exact truth. - Nuite agree! though - ne#er thought of this before. Then! - said! in astronomy! as in geometry! e should employ problems! and let the hea#ens alone if e ould approach the subject in the right ay and so make the natural gift of reason to be of any real use. That! he said! is a ork infinitely beyond our present astronomers. Les! - saidO and there are many other things hich must also ha#e a similar extension gi#en to them! if our legislation is to be of any #alue. &ut can you tell me of any other suitable studyK 9o! he said! not ithout thinking. ;otion! - said! has many forms! and not one onlyO t o of them are ob#ious enough e#en to its no better than oursO and there are others! as - imagine! hich may be left to iser persons. &ut here are the t oK There is a second! - said! hich is the counterpart of the one already named. =nd hat may that beK The second! - said! ould seem relati#ely to the ears to be hat the first is to the eyesO for - concei#e that as the eyes are designed to look up at the stars! so are the ears to hear harmonious motionsO

and these are sister sciencesMMas the Pythagoreans say! and e! Glaucon! agree ith themK Les! he replied. &ut this! - said! is a laborious study! and therefore e had better go and learn of themO and they ill tell us hether there are any other applications of these sciences. =t the same time! e must not lose sight of our o n higher object. What is thatK There is a perfection hich all kno ledge ought to reach! and hich our pupils ought also to attain! and not to fall short of! as - as saying that they did in astronomy. $or in the science of harmony! as you probably kno ! the same thing happens. The teachers of harmony compare the sounds and consonances hich are heard only! and their labour! like that of the astronomers! is in #ain. Les! by hea#enD he saidO and .tis as good as a play to hear them talking about their condensed notes! as they call themO they put their ears close alongside of the strings like persons catching a sound from their neighbour.s allMMone set of them declaring that they distinguish an intermediate note and ha#e found the least inter#al hich should be the unit of measurementO the others insisting that the t o sounds ha#e passed into the sameMM either party setting their ears before their understanding. Lou mean! - said! those gentlemen ho tease and torture the strings and rack them on the pegs of the instrumentA might carry on the metaphor and speak after their manner of the blo s hich the plectrum gi#es! and make accusations against the strings! both of back ardness and for ardness to soundO but this ould be tedious! and therefore - ill only say that these are not the men! and that - am referring to the Pythagoreans! of hom - as just no proposing to enNuire about harmony. $or they too are in error! like the astronomersO they in#estigate the numbers of the harmonies hich are heard! but they ne#er attain to problemsMthat is to say! they ne#er reach the natural harmonies of number! or reflect hy some numbers are

harmonious and others not. That! he said! is a thing of more than mortal kno ledge. = thing! - replied! hich - ould rather call usefulO that is! if sought after ith a #ie to the beautiful and goodO but if pursued in any other spirit! useless. %ery true! he said. 9o ! hen all these studies reach the point of interMcommunion and connection ith one another! and come to be considered in their mutual affinities! then! - think! but not till then! ill the pursuit of them ha#e a #alue for our objectsO other ise there is no profit in them. - suspect soO but you are speaking! )ocrates! of a #ast ork. What do you meanK - saidO the prelude or hatK "o you not kno that all this is but the prelude to the actual strain hich e ha#e to learnK $or you surely ould not regard the skilled mathematician as a dialecticianK =ssuredly not! he saidO - ha#e hardly e#er kno n a mathematician ho as capable of reasoning. &ut do you imagine that men ho are unable to gi#e and take a reason ill ha#e the kno ledge hich e reNuire of themK 9either can this be supposed. =nd so! Glaucon! - said! e ha#e at last arri#ed at the hymn of dialectic. This is that strain hich is of the intellect only! but hich the faculty of sight ill ne#ertheless be found to imitateO for sight! as you may remember! as imagined by us after a hile to behold the real animals and stars! and last of all the sun himself. =nd so ith dialecticO hen a person starts on the disco#ery of the absolute by the light of reason only! and ithout any assistance of sense! and perse#eres until by pure intelligence he arri#es at the perception of the absolute good! he at last finds himself at the end of the intellectual orld! as in the case of sight at the end of the #isible.

Exactly! he said. Then this is the progress hich you call dialecticK True. &ut the release of the prisoners from chains! and their translation from the shado s to the images and to the light! and the ascent from the underground den to the sun! hile in his presence they are #ainly trying to look on animals and plants and the light of the sun! but are able to percei#e e#en ith their eak eyes the images in the ater > hich are di#ine?! and are the shado s of true existence >not shado s of images cast by a light of fire! hich compared ith the sun is only an image?MMthis po er of ele#ating the highest principle in the soul to the contemplation of that hich is best in existence! ith hich e may compare the raising of that faculty hich is the #ery light of the body to the sight of that hich is brightest in the material and #isible orldMMthis po er is gi#en! as - as saying! by all that study and pursuit of the arts hich has been described. - agree in hat you are saying! he replied! hich may be hard to belie#e! yet! from another point of #ie ! is harder still to deny. This! ho e#er! is not a theme to be treated of in passing only! but ill ha#e to be discussed again and again. =nd so! hether our conclusion be true or false! let us assume all this! and proceed at once from the prelude or preamble to the chief strain! and describe that in like manner. )ay! then! hat is the nature and hat are the di#isions of dialectic! and hat are the paths hich lead thitherO for these paths ill also lead to our final restK "ear Glaucon! - said! you ill not be able to follo me here! though - ould do my best! and you should behold not an image only but the absolute truth! according to my notion. Whether hat - told you ould or ould not ha#e been a reality - cannot #enture to sayO but you ould ha#e seen something like realityO of that - am confident. "oubtless! he replied.

&ut - must also remind you! that the po er of dialectic alone can re#eal this! and only to one ho is a disciple of the pre#ious sciences. 8f that assertion you may be as confident as of the last. =nd assuredly no one ill argue that there is any other method of comprehending by any regular process all true existence or of ascertaining hat each thing is in its o n natureO for the arts in general are concerned ith the desires or opinions of men! or are culti#ated ith a #ie to production and construction! or for the preser#ation of such productions and constructionsO and as to the mathematical sciences hich! as e ere saying! ha#e some apprehension of true beingMMgeometry and the likeMM they only dream about being! but ne#er can they behold the aking reality so long as they lea#e the hypotheses hich they use unexamined! and are unable to gi#e an account of them. $or hen a man kno s not his o n first principle! and hen the conclusion and intermediate steps are also constructed out of he kno s not hat! ho can he imagine that such a fabric of con#ention can e#er become scienceK -mpossible! he said. Then dialectic! and dialectic alone! goes directly to the first principle and is the only science hich does a ay ith hypotheses in order to make her ground secureO the eye of the soul! hich is literally buried in an outlandish slough! is by her gentle aid lifted up ardsO and she uses as handmaids and helpers in the ork of con#ersion! the sciences hich e ha#e been discussing. (ustom terms them sciences! but they ought to ha#e some other name! implying greater clearness than opinion and less clearness than scienceA and this! in our pre#ious sketch! as called understanding. &ut hy should e dispute about names hen e ha#e realities of such importance to considerK Why indeed! he said! hen any name ill do hich expresses the thought of the mind ith clearnessK =t any rate! e are satisfied! as before! to ha#e four di#isionsO t o for intellect and t o for opinion! and to call the first

di#ision science! the second understanding! the third belief! and the fourth perception of shado s! opinion being concerned ith becoming! and intellect ith beingO and so to make a proportionAMM =s being is to becoming! so is pure intellect to opinion. =nd as intellect is to opinion! so is science to belief! and understanding to the perception of shado s. &ut let us defer the further correlation and subdi#ision of the subjects of opinion and of intellect! for it ill be a long enNuiry! many times longer than this has been. =s far as - understand! he said! - agree. =nd do you also agree! - said! in describing the dialectician as one ho attains a conception of the essence of each thingK =nd he ho does not possess and is therefore unable to impart this conception! in hate#er degree he fails! may in that degree also be said to fail in intelligenceK Will you admit so muchK Les! he saidO ho can - deny itK =nd you ould say the same of the conception of the goodK :ntil the person is able to abstract and define rationally the idea of good! and unless he can run the gauntlet of all objections! and is ready to dispro#e them! not by appeals to opinion! but to absolute truth! ne#er faltering at any step of the argumentMM unless he can do all this! you ould say that he kno s neither the idea of good nor any other goodO he apprehends only a shado ! if anything at all! hich is gi#en by opinion and not by scienceOMM dreaming and slumbering in this life! before he is ell a ake here! he arri#es at the orld belo ! and has his final Nuietus. -n all that - should most certainly agree ith you. =nd surely you ould not ha#e the children of your ideal )tate! hom you are nurturing and educatingMMif the ideal e#er becomes a realityMMyou ould not allo the future rulers to be like posts! ha#ing no reason in them! and yet to be set in authority o#er

the highest mattersK (ertainly not. Then you ill make a la that they shall ha#e such an education as ill enable them to attain the greatest skill in asking and ans ering NuestionsK Les! he said! you and - together ill make it. "ialectic! then! as you ill agree! is the copingMstone of the sciences! and is set o#er themO no other science can be placed higherMM the nature of kno ledge can no further goK - agree! he said. &ut to hom e are to assign these studies! and in hat ay they are to be assigned! are Nuestions hich remain to be consideredK Les! clearly. Lou remember! - said! ho the rulers ere chosen beforeK (ertainly! he said. The same natures must still be chosen! and the preference again gi#en to the surest and the bra#est! and! if possible! to the fairestO and! ha#ing noble and generous tempers! they should also ha#e the natural gifts hich ill facilitate their education. =nd hat are theseK )uch gifts as keenness and ready po ers of acNuisitionO for the mind more often faints from the se#erity of study than from the se#erity of gymnasticsA the toil is more entirely the mind.s o n! and is not shared ith the body. %ery true! he replied. $urther! he of hom e are in search should ha#e a good memory!

and be an un earied solid man ho is a lo#er of labour in any lineO or he ill ne#er be able to endure the great amount of bodily exercise and to go through all the intellectual discipline and study hich e reNuire of him. (ertainly! he saidO he must ha#e natural gifts. The mistake at present is! that those ho study philosophy ha#e no #ocation! and this! as - as before saying! is the reason hy she has fallen into disreputeA her true sons should take her by the hand and not bastards. What do you meanK -n the first place! her #otary should not ha#e a lame or halting industryMM - mean! that he should not be half industrious and half idleA as! for example! hen a man is a lo#er of gymnastic and hunting! and all other bodily exercises! but a hater rather than a lo#er of the labour of learning or listening or enNuiring. 8r the occupation to hich he de#otes himself may be of an opposite kind! and he may ha#e the other sort of lameness. (ertainly! he said. =nd as to truth! - said! is not a soul eNually to be deemed halt and lame hich hates #oluntary falsehood and is extremely indignant at herself and others hen they tell lies! but is patient of in#oluntary falsehood! and does not mind allo ing like a s inish beast in the mire of ignorance! and has no shame at being detectedK To be sure. =nd! again! in respect of temperance! courage! magnificence! and e#ery other #irtue! should e not carefully distinguish bet een the true son and the bastardK for here there is no discernment of such Nualities )tates and indi#iduals unconsciously err and the )tate makes a ruler! and the indi#idual a friend! of one ho! being defecti#e in some part of #irtue! is in a figure lame or a bastard. That is #ery true! he said.

=ll these things! then! ill ha#e to be carefully considered by usO and if only those hom e introduce to this #ast system of education and training are sound in body and mind! justice herself ill ha#e nothing to say against us! and e shall be the sa#iours of the constitution and of the )tateO but! if our pupils are men of another stamp! the re#erse ill happen! and e shall pour a still greater flood of ridicule on philosophy than she has to endure at present. That ould not be creditable. (ertainly not! - saidO and yet perhaps! in thus turning jest into earnest - am eNually ridiculous. -n hat respectK - had forgotten! - said! that e ere not serious! and spoke ith too much excitement. $or hen - sa philosophy so undeser#edly trampled under foot of men - could not help feeling a sort of indignation at the authors of her disgraceA and my anger made me too #ehement. -ndeedD - as listening! and did not think so. &ut -! ho am the speaker! felt that - as. =nd no let me remind you that! although in our former selection e chose old men! e must not do so in this. )olon as under a delusion hen he said that a man hen he gro s old may learn many thingsMMfor he can no more learn much than he can run muchO youth is the time for any extraordinary toil. 8f course. =nd! therefore! calculation and geometry and all the other elements of instruction! hich are a preparation for dialectic! should be presented to the mind in childhoodO not! ho e#er! under any notion of forcing our system of education. Why notK &ecause a freeman ought not to be a sla#e in the acNuisition

of kno ledge of any kind. &odily exercise! hen compulsory! does no harm to the bodyO but kno ledge hich is acNuired under compulsion obtains no hold on the mind. %ery true. Then! my good friend! - said! do not use compulsion! but let early education be a sort of amusementO you ill then be better able to find out the natural bent. That is a #ery rational notion! he said. "o you remember that the children! too! ere to be taken to see the battle on horsebackO and that if there ere no danger they ere to be brought close up and! like young hounds! ha#e a taste of blood gi#en themK Les! - remember. The same practice may be follo ed! - said! in all these thingsMM labours! lessons! dangersMMand he ho is most at home in all of them ought to be enrolled in a select number. =t hat ageK =t the age hen the necessary gymnastics are o#erA the period hether of t o or three years hich passes in this sort of training is useless for any other purposeO for sleep and exercise are unpropitious to learningO and the trial of ho is first in gymnastic exercises is one of the most important tests to hich our youth are subjected. (ertainly! he replied. =fter that time those ho are selected from the class of t enty years old ill be promoted to higher honour! and the sciences hich they learned ithout any order in their early education ill no be brought together! and they ill be able to see the natural relationship of them to one another and to true being. Les! he said! that is the only kind of kno ledge hich takes

lasting root. Les! - saidO and the capacity for such kno ledge is the great criterion of dialectical talentA the comprehensi#e mind is al ays the dialectical. - agree ith you! he said. These! - said! are the points hich you must considerO and those ho ha#e most of this comprehension! and ho are more steadfast in their learning! and in their military and other appointed duties! hen they ha#e arri#ed at the age of thirty ha#e to be chosen by you out of the select class! and ele#ated to higher honourO and you ill ha#e to pro#e them by the help of dialectic! in order to learn hich of them is able to gi#e up the use of sight and the other senses! and in company ith truth to attain absolute beingA =nd here! my friend! great caution is reNuired. Why great cautionK "o you not remark! - said! ho great is the e#il hich dialectic has introducedK What e#ilK he said. The students of the art are filled ith la lessness. Puite true! he said. "o you think that there is anything so #ery unnatural or inexcusable in their caseK or ill you make allo ance for themK -n hat ay make allo anceK - ant you! - said! by ay of parallel! to imagine a supposititious son ho is brought up in great ealthO he is one of a great and numerous family! and has many flatterers. When he gro s up to manhood! he learns that his alleged are not his real parentsO but ho the real are he is unable to disco#er. (an you guess ho he ill be likely to beha#e to ards his flatterers and his

supposed parents! first of all during the period hen he is ignorant of the false relation! and then again hen he kno sK 8r shall - guess for youK -f you please. Then - should say! that hile he is ignorant of the truth he ill be likely to honour his father and his mother and his supposed relations more than the flatterersO he ill be less inclined to neglect them hen in need! or to do or say anything against themO and he ill be less illing to disobey them in any important matter. 'e ill. &ut hen he has made the disco#ery! - should imagine that he ould diminish his honour and regard for them! and ould become more de#oted to the flatterersO their influence o#er him ould greatly increaseO he ould no li#e after their ays! and openly associate ith them! and! unless he ere of an unusually good disposition! he ould trouble himself no more about his supposed parents or other relations. Well! all that is #ery probable. &ut ho is the image applicable to the disciples of philosophyK -n this ayA you kno that there are certain principles about justice and honour! hich ere taught us in childhood! and under their parental authority e ha#e been brought up! obeying and honouring them. That is true. There are also opposite maxims and habits of pleasure hich flatter and attract the soul! but do not influence those of us ho ha#e any sense of right! and they continue to obey and honour the maxims of their fathers. True. 9o ! hen a man is in this state! and the Nuestioning spirit asks hat is fair or honourable! and he ans ers as the legislator has taught him! and then arguments many and di#erse refute his ords!

until he is dri#en into belie#ing that nothing is honourable any more than dishonourable! or just and good any more than the re#erse! and so of all the notions hich he most #alued! do you think that he ill still honour and obey them as beforeK -mpossible. =nd hen he ceases to think them honourable and natural as heretofore! and he fails to disco#er the true! can he be expected to pursue any life other than that hich flatters his desiresK 'e cannot. =nd from being a keeper of the la he is con#erted into a breaker of itK :nNuestionably. 9o all this is #ery natural in students of philosophy such as ha#e described! and also! as - as just no saying! most excusable. Les! he saidO and! - may add! pitiable. Therefore! that your feelings may not be mo#ed to pity about our citi7ens ho are no thirty years of age! e#ery care must be taken in introducing them to dialectic. (ertainly. There is a danger lest they should taste the dear delight too earlyO for youngsters! as you may ha#e obser#ed! hen they first get the taste in their mouths! argue for amusement! and are al ays contradicting and refuting others in imitation of those ho refute themO like puppyMdogs! they rejoice in pulling and tearing at all ho come near them. Les! he said! there is nothing hich they like better. =nd hen they ha#e made many conNuests and recei#ed defeats at the hands of many! they #iolently and speedily get into a ay

of not belie#ing anything hich they belie#ed before! and hence! not only they! but philosophy and all that relates to it is apt to ha#e a bad name ith the rest of the orld. Too true! he said. &ut hen a man begins to get older! he ill no longer be guilty of such insanityO he ill imitate the dialectician ho is seeking for truth! and not the eristic! ho is contradicting for the sake of amusementO and the greater moderation of his character ill increase instead of diminishing the honour of the pursuit. %ery true! he said. =nd did e not make special pro#ision for this! hen e said that the disciples of philosophy ere to be orderly and steadfast! not! as no ! any chance aspirant or intruderK %ery true. )uppose! - said! the study of philosophy to take the place of gymnastics and to be continued diligently and earnestly and exclusi#ely for t ice the number of years hich ere passed in bodily exerciseMM ill that be enoughK Would you say six or four yearsK he asked. )ay fi#e years! - repliedO at the end of the time they must be sent do n again into the den and compelled to hold any military or other office hich young men are Nualified to holdA in this ay they ill get their experience of life! and there ill be an opportunity of trying hether! hen they are dra n all manner of ays by temptation! they ill stand firm or flinch. =nd ho long is this stage of their li#es to lastK $ifteen years! - ans eredO and hen they ha#e reached fifty years of age! then let those ho still sur#i#e and ha#e distinguished themsel#es in e#ery action of their li#es and in e#ery branch of kno ledge come at last to their consummationO the time has no

arri#ed at hich they must raise the eye of the soul to the uni#ersal light hich lightens all things! and behold the absolute goodO for that is the! pattern according to hich they are to order the )tate and the li#es of indi#iduals! and the remainder of their o n li#es alsoO making philosophy their chief pursuit! but! hen their turn comes! toiling also at politics and ruling for the public good! not as though they ere performing some heroic action! but simply as a matter of dutyO and hen they ha#e brought up in each generation others like themsel#es and left them in their place to be go#ernors of the )tate! then they ill depart to the -slands of the &lest and d ell thereO and the city ill gi#e them public memorials and sacrifices and honour them! if the Pythian oracle consent! as demiMgods! but if not! as in any case blessed and di#ine. Lou are a sculptor! )ocrates! and ha#e made statues of our go#ernors faultless in beauty. Les! - said! Glaucon! and of our go#ernesses tooO for you must not suppose that hat - ha#e been saying applies to men only and not to omen as far as their natures can go. There you are right! he said! since e ha#e made them to share in all things like the men. Well! - said! and you ould agree > ould you notK? that hat has been said about the )tate and the go#ernment is not a mere dream! and although difficult not impossible! but only possible in the ay hich has been supposedO that is to say! hen the true philosopher kings are born in a )tate! one or more of them! despising the honours of this present orld hich they deem mean and orthless! esteeming abo#e all things right and the honour that springs from right! and regarding justice as the greatest and most necessary of all things! hose ministers they are! and hose principles ill be exalted by them hen they set in order their o n cityK 'o ill they proceedK

They ill begin by sending out into the country all the inhabitants of the city ho are more than ten years old! and ill take possession of their children! ho ill be unaffected by the habits of their parentsO

these they ill train in their o n habits and la s! - mean in the la s hich e ha#e gi#en themA and in this ay the )tate and constitution of hich e ere speaking ill soonest and most easily attain happiness! and the nation hich has such a constitution ill gain most. Les! that ill be the best ay. =nd - think! )ocrates! that you ha#e #ery ell described ho ! if e#er! such a constitution might come into being. Enough then of the perfect )tate! and of the man ho bears its imageMM there is no difficulty in seeing ho e shall describe him. There is no difficulty! he repliedO and - agree ith you in thinking that nothing more need be said.

&88Q %--)8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 =9" so! Glaucon! e ha#e arri#ed at the conclusion that in the perfect )tate i#es and children are to be in commonO and that all education and the pursuits of ar and peace are also to be common! and the best philosophers and the bra#est arriors are to be their kingsK That! replied Glaucon! has been ackno ledged. Les! - saidO and e ha#e further ackno ledged that the go#ernors! hen appointed themsel#es! ill take their soldiers and place them in houses such as e ere describing! hich are common to all! and contain nothing pri#ate! or indi#idualO and about their property! you remember hat e agreedK Les! - remember that no one as to ha#e any of the ordinary possessions of mankindO they ere to be arrior athletes and guardians! recei#ing from the other citi7ens! in lieu of annual payment! only their maintenance! and they ere to take care of themsel#es

and of the hole )tate. True! - saidO and no that this di#ision of our task is concluded! let us find the point at hich e digressed! that e may return into the old path. There is no difficulty in returningO you implied! then as no ! that you had finished the description of the )tateA you said that such a )tate as good! and that the man as good ho ans ered to it! although! as no appears! you had more excellent things to relate both of )tate and man. =nd you said further! that if this as the true form! then the others ere falseO and of the false forms! you said! as - remember! that there ere four principal ones! and that their defects! and the defects of the indi#iduals corresponding to them! ere orth examining. When e had seen all the indi#iduals! and finally agreed as to ho as the best and ho as the orst of them! e ere to consider hether the best as not also the happiest! and the orst the most miserable. - asked you hat ere the four forms of go#ernment of hich you spoke! and then Polemarchus and =deimantus put in their ordO and you began again! and ha#e found your ay to the point at hich e ha#e no arri#ed. Lour recollection! - said! is most exact. Then! like a restler! he replied! you must put yourself again in the same positionO and let me ask the same Nuestions! and do you gi#e me the same ans er hich you ere about to gi#e me then. Les! if - can! - ill! - said. - shall particularly ish to hear hat ere the four constitutions of hich you ere speaking. That Nuestion! - said! is easily ans eredA the four go#ernments of hich - spoke! so far as they ha#e distinct names! are! first! those of (rete and )parta! hich are generally applaudedO hat is termed oligarchy comes nextO this is not eNually appro#ed! and is a form of go#ernment hich teems ith e#ilsA thirdly! democracy! hich naturally follo s oligarchy! although #ery differentA

and lastly comes tyranny! great and famous! hich differs from them all! and is the fourth and orst disorder of a )tate. - do not kno ! do youK of any other constitution hich can be said to ha#e a distinct character. There are lordships and principalities hich are bought and sold! and some other intermediate forms of go#ernment. &ut these are nondescripts and may be found eNually among 'ellenes and among barbarians. Les! he replied! e certainly hear of many curious forms of go#ernment hich exist among them. "o you kno ! - said! that go#ernments #ary as the dispositions of men #ary! and that there must be as many of the one as there are of the otherK $or e cannot suppose that )tates are made of Toak and rock!. and not out of the human natures hich are in them! and hich in a figure turn the scale and dra other things after themK Les! he said! the )tates are as the men areO they gro out of human characters. Then if the constitutions of )tates are fi#e! the dispositions of indi#idual minds ill also be fi#eK (ertainly. 'im ho ans ers to aristocracy! and hom e rightly call just and good! e ha#e already described. We ha#e. Then let us no proceed to describe the inferior sort of natures! being the contentious and ambitious! ho ans er to the )partan polityO also the oligarchical! democratical! and tyrannical. <et us place the most just by the side of the most unjust! and hen e see them e shall be able to compare the relati#e happiness or unhappiness of him ho leads a life of pure justice or pure injustice. The enNuiry ill then be completed. =nd e shall kno hether e ought to pursue injustice! as Thrasymachus ad#ises! or in accordance ith the conclusions of the argument to prefer justice.

(ertainly! he replied! e must do as you say. )hall e follo our old plan! hich e adopted ith a #ie to clearness! of taking the )tate first and then proceeding to the indi#idual! and begin ith the go#ernment of honourKMM- kno of no name for such a go#ernment other than timocracy! or perhaps timarchy. We ill compare ith this the like character in the indi#idualO and! after that! consider oligarchical manO and then again e ill turn our attention to democracy and the democratical manO and lastly! e ill go and #ie the city of tyranny! and once more take a look into the tyrant.s soul! and try to arri#e at a satisfactory decision. That ay of #ie ing and judging of the matter ill be #ery suitable. $irst! then! - said! let us enNuire ho timocracy >the go#ernment of honour? arises out of aristocracy >the go#ernment of the best?. (learly! all political changes originate in di#isions of the actual go#erning po erO a go#ernment hich is united! ho e#er small! cannot be mo#ed. %ery true! he said. -n hat ay! then! ill our city be mo#ed! and in hat manner the t o classes of auxiliaries and rulers disagree among themsel#es or ith one anotherK )hall e! after the manner of 'omer! pray the ;uses to tell us Tho discord first arose.K )hall e imagine them in solemn mockery! to play and jest ith us as if e ere children! and to address us in a lofty tragic #ein! making belie#e to be in earnestK 'o ould they address usK

=fter this mannerAMM= city hich is thus constituted can hardly be shakenO but! seeing that e#erything hich has a beginning has also an end! e#en a constitution such as yours ill not last for e#er! but ill in time be dissol#ed. =nd this is the dissolutionAMM -n plants that gro in the earth! as ell as in animals that mo#e on the earth.s surface! fertility and sterility of soul and body occur hen the circumferences of the circles of each are completed! hich in shortMli#ed existences pass o#er a short space! and in longMli#ed ones o#er a long space. &ut to the kno ledge

of human fecundity and sterility all the isdom and education of your rulers ill not attainO the la s hich regulate them ill not be disco#ered by an intelligence hich is alloyed ith sense! but ill escape them! and they ill bring children into the orld hen they ought not. 9o that hich is of di#ine birth has a period hich is contained in a perfect number! but the period of human birth is comprehended in a number in hich first increments by in#olution and e#olution >or sNuared and cubed? obtaining three inter#als and four terms of like and unlike! axing and aning numbers! make all the terms commensurable and agreeable to one another. The base of these >6? ith a third added >0? hen combined ith fi#e >@4? and raised to the third po er furnishes t o harmoniesO the first a sNuare hich is a hundred times as great >044 B 0 J *44?! and the other a figure ha#ing one side eNual to the former! but oblong! consisting of a hundred numbers sNuared upon rational diameters of a sNuare >i. e. omitting fractions?! the side of hich is fi#e >, J , B 0+ J *44 B 0+44?! each of them being less by one >than the perfect sNuare hich includes the fractions! sc. 34? or less by t o perfect sNuares of irrational diameters >of a sNuare the side of hich is fi#e B 34 V 34 B *44?O and a hundred cubes of three >@, J *44 B @,44 V 0+44 V 044 B G444?. 9o this number represents a geometrical figure hich has control o#er the good and e#il of births. $or hen your guardians are ignorant of the la of births! and unite bride and bridegroom out of season! the children ill not be goodly or fortunate. =nd though only the best of them ill be appointed by their predecessors! still they ill be un orthy to hold their fathers. places! and hen they come into po er as guardians! they ill soon be found to fall in taking care of us! the ;uses! first by underM#aluing musicO hich neglect ill soon extend to gymnasticO and hence the young men of your )tate ill be less culti#ated. -n the succeeding generation rulers ill be appointed ho ha#e lost the guardian po er of testing the metal of your different races! hich! like 'esiod.s! are of gold and sil#er and brass and iron. =nd so iron ill be mingled ith sil#er! and brass ith gold! and hence there ill arise dissimilarity and ineNuality and irregularity! hich al ays and in all places are causes of hatred and ar. This the ;uses affirm to be the stock from hich discord has sprung! here#er arisingO and this is their ans er to us. Les! and e may assume that they ans er truly.

Why! yes! - said! of course they ans er trulyO ho can the ;uses speak falselyK =nd hat do the ;uses say nextK When discord arose! then the t o races ere dra n different aysA the iron and brass fell to acNuiring money and land and houses and gold and sil#erO but the gold and sil#er races! not anting money but ha#ing the true riches in their o n nature! inclined to ards #irtue and the ancient order of things. There as a battle bet een them! and at last they agreed to distribute their land and houses among indi#idual o nersO and they ensla#ed their friends and maintainers! hom they had formerly protected in the condition of freemen! and made of them subjects and ser#antsO and they themsel#es ere engaged in ar and in keeping a atch against them. - belie#e that you ha#e rightly concei#ed the origin of the change. =nd the ne go#ernment hich thus arises ill be of a form intermediate bet een oligarchy and aristocracyK %ery true. )uch ill be the change! and after the change has been made! ho ill they proceedK (learly! the ne )tate! being in a mean bet een oligarchy and the perfect )tate! ill partly follo one and partly the other! and ill also ha#e some peculiarities. True! he said. -n the honour gi#en to rulers! in the abstinence of the arrior class from agriculture! handicrafts! and trade in general! in the institution of common meals! and in the attention paid to gymnastics and military trainingMMin all these respects this )tate ill resemble the former. True. &ut in the fear of admitting philosophers to po er! because they are no

longer to be had simple and earnest! but are made up of mixed elementsO and in turning from them to passionate and less complex characters! ho are by nature fitted for ar rather than peaceO and in the #alue set by them upon military stratagems and contri#ances! and in the aging of e#erlasting arsMMthis )tate ill be for the most part peculiar. Les. Les! - saidO and men of this stamp ill be co#etous of money! like those ho li#e in oligarchiesO they ill ha#e! a fierce secret longing after gold and sil#er! hich they ill hoard in dark places! ha#ing maga7ines and treasuries of their o n for the deposit and concealment of themO also castles hich are just nests for their eggs! and in hich they ill spend large sums on their i#es! or on any others hom they please. That is most true! he said. =nd they are miserly because they ha#e no means of openly acNuiring the money hich they pri7eO they ill spend that hich is another man.s on the gratification of their desires! stealing their pleasures and running a ay like children from the la ! their fatherA they ha#e been schooled not by gentle influences but by force! for they ha#e neglected her ho is the true ;use! the companion of reason and philosophy! and ha#e honoured gymnastic more than music. :ndoubtedly! he said! the form of go#ernment hich you describe is a mixture of good and e#il. Why! there is a mixture! - saidO but one thing! and one thing only! is predominantly seen!MMthe spirit of contention and ambitionO and these are due to the pre#alence of the passionate or spirited element. =ssuredly! he said. )uch is the origin and such the character of this )tate! hich has been described in outline onlyO the more perfect execution as not reNuired! for a sketch is enough to sho the type of the most perfectly just and most perfectly unjustO and to go through all the )tates and all the characters of men!

omitting none of them! ould be an interminable labour. %ery true! he replied. 9o hat man ans ers to this form of go#ernmentMho did he come into being! and hat is he likeK )8(R=TE) M ="E-;=9T:) - think! said =deimantus! that in the spirit of contention hich characterises him! he is not unlike our friend Glaucon. Perhaps! - said! he may be like him in that one pointO but there are other respects in hich he is #ery different. -n hat respectsK 'e should ha#e more of selfMassertion and be less culti#ated! and yet a friend of cultureO and he should be a good listener! but no speaker. )uch a person is apt to be rough ith sla#es! unlike the educated man! ho is too proud for thatO and he ill also be courteous to freemen! and remarkably obedient to authorityO he is a lo#er of po er and a lo#er of honourO claiming to be a ruler! not because he is eloNuent! or on any ground of that sort! but because he is a soldier and has performed feats of armsO he is also a lo#er of gymnastic exercises and of the chase. Les! that is the type of character hich ans ers to timocracy. )uch an one ill despise riches only hen he is youngO but as he gets older he ill be more and more attracted to them! because he has a piece of the a#aricious nature in him! and is not singleminded to ards #irtue! ha#ing lost his best guardian. Who as thatK said =deimantus. Philosophy! - said! tempered ith music! ho comes and takes her abode in a man! and is the only sa#iour of his #irtue throughout life. Good! he said.

)uch! - said! is the timocratical youth! and he is like the timocratical )tate. Exactly. 'is origin is as follo sAMM'e is often the young son of a gra#e father! ho d ells in an illMgo#erned city! of hich he declines the honours and offices! and ill not go to la ! or exert himself in any ay! but is ready to ai#e his rights in order that he may escape trouble. =nd ho does the son come into beingK The character of the son begins to de#elop hen he hears his mother complaining that her husband has no place in the go#ernment! of hich the conseNuence is that she has no precedence among other omen. $urther! hen she sees her husband not #ery eager about money! and instead of battling and railing in the la courts or assembly! taking hate#er happens to him NuietlyO and hen she obser#es that his thoughts al ays centre in himself! hile he treats her ith #ery considerable indifference! she is annoyed! and says to her son that his father is only half a man and far too easyMgoingA adding all the other complaints about her o n illMtreatment hich omen are so fond of rehearsing. Les! said =deimantus! they gi#e us plenty of them! and their complaints are so like themsel#es. =nd you kno ! - said! that the old ser#ants also! ho are supposed to be attached to the family! from time to time talk pri#ately in the same strain to the sonO and if they see any one ho o es money to his father! or is ronging him in any ay! and he falls to prosecute them! they tell the youth that hen he gro s up he must retaliate upon people of this sort! and be more of a man than his father. 'e has only to alk abroad and he hears and sees the same sort of thingA those ho do their o n business in the city are called simpletons! and held in no esteem! hile the busyMbodies are honoured and applauded. The result is that the young man! hearing and seeing all these thingMM hearing too! the ords of his father! and ha#ing a nearer #ie of his ay of life! and making comparisons of him and othersMMis dra n opposite aysA

hile his father is atering and nourishing the rational principle in his soul! the others are encouraging the passionate and appetiti#eO and he being not originally of a bad nature! but ha#ing kept bad company! is at last brought by their joint influence to a middle point! and gi#es up the kingdom hich is ithin him to the middle principle of contentiousness and passion! and becomes arrogant and ambitious. Lou seem to me to ha#e described his origin perfectly. Then e ha#e no ! - said! the second form of go#ernment and the second type of characterK We ha#e. 9ext! let us look at another man ho! as =eschylus says! -s set o#er against another )tateO or rather! as our plan reNuires! begin ith the )tate. &y all means. - belie#e that oligarchy follo s next in order. =nd hat manner of go#ernment do you term oligarchyK = go#ernment resting on a #aluation of property! in hich the rich ha#e po er and the poor man is depri#ed of it. - understand! he replied. 8ught - not to begin by describing ho the change from timocracy to oligarchy arisesK Les. Well! - said! no eyes are reNuired in order to see ho the one passes into the other.

'o K The accumulation of gold in the treasury of pri#ate indi#iduals is ruin the of timocracyO they in#ent illegal modes of expenditureO for hat do they or their i#es care about the la K Les! indeed. =nd then one! seeing another gro rich! seeks to ri#al him! and thus the great mass of the citi7ens become lo#ers of money. <ikely enough. =nd so they gro richer and richer! and the more they think of making a fortune the less they think of #irtueO for hen riches and #irtue are placed together in the scales of the balance! the one al ays rises as the other falls. True. =nd in proportion as riches and rich men are honoured in the )tate! #irtue and the #irtuous are dishonoured. (learly. =nd hat is honoured is culti#ated! and that hich has no honour is neglected. That is ob#ious. =nd so at last! instead of lo#ing contention and glory! men become lo#ers of trade and moneyO they honour and look up to the rich man! and make a ruler of him! and dishonour the poor man. They do so. They next proceed to make a la hich fixes a sum of money as the Nualification of citi7enshipO the sum is higher in one place and lo er in another! as the oligarchy is more or less exclusi#eO and they allo no one hose property falls belo the amount fixed

to ha#e any share in the go#ernment. These changes in the constitution they effect by force of arms! if intimidation has not already done their ork. %ery true. =nd this! speaking generally! is the ay in hich oligarchy is established. Les! he saidO but hat are the characteristics of this form of go#ernment! and hat are the defects of hich e ere speakingK $irst of all! - said! consider the nature of the Nualification just think hat ould happen if pilots ere to be chosen according to their property! and a poor man ere refused permission to steer! e#en though he ere a better pilotK Lou mean that they ould ship reckK LesO and is not this true of the go#ernment of anythingK - should imagine so. Except a cityKMMor ould you include a cityK 9ay! he said! the case of a city is the strongest of all! inasmuch as the rule of a city is the greatest and most difficult of all. This! then! ill be the first great defect of oligarchyK (learly. =nd here is another defect hich is Nuite as bad. What defectK The ine#itable di#isionA such a )tate is not one! but t o )tates! the one of poor! the other of rich menO and they are li#ing on the same spot and al ays conspiring against one another.

That! surely! is at least as bad. =nother discreditable feature is! that! for a like reason! they are incapable of carrying on any ar. Either they arm the multitude! and then they are more afraid of them than of the enemyO or! if they do not call them out in the hour of battle! they are oligarchs indeed! fe to fight as they are fe to rule. =nd at the same time their fondness for money makes them un illing to pay taxes. 'o discreditableD =nd! as e said before! under such a constitution the same persons ha#e too many callingsMMthey are husbandmen! tradesmen! arriors! all in one. "oes that look ellK =nything but ell. There is another e#il hich is! perhaps! the greatest of all! and to hich this )tate first begins to be liable. What e#ilK = man may sell all that he has! and another may acNuire his propertyO yet after the sale he may d ell in the city of hich he is no longer a part! being neither trader! nor artisan! nor horseman! nor hoplite! but only a poor! helpless creature. Les! that is an e#il hich also first begins in this )tate. The e#il is certainly not pre#ented thereO for oligarchies ha#e both the extremes of great ealth and utter po#erty. True. &ut think againA -n his ealthy days! hile he as spending his money! as a man of this sort a hit more good to the )tate for the purposes of citi7enshipK 8r did he only seem to be a member of the ruling body! although in truth he as neither ruler nor subject!

but just a spendthriftK =s you say! he seemed to be a ruler! but as only a spendthrift. ;ay e not say that this is the drone in the house ho is like the drone in the honeycomb! and that the one is the plague of the city as the other is of the hi#eK /ust so! )ocrates. =nd God has made the flying drones! =deimantus! all ithout stings! hereas of the alking drones he has made some ithout stings but others ha#e dreadful stingsO of the stingless class are those ho in their old age end as paupersO of the stingers come all the criminal class! as they are termed. ;ost true! he said. (learly then! hene#er you see paupers in a )tate! some here in that neighborhood there are hidden a ay thie#es! and cutpurses and robbers of temples! and all sorts of malefactors. (learly. Well! - said! and in oligarchical )tates do you not find paupersK Les! he saidO nearly e#erybody is a pauper ho is not a ruler. =nd may e be so bold as to affirm that there are also many criminals to be found in them! rogues ho ha#e stings! and hom the authorities are careful to restrain by forceK (ertainly! e may be so bold. The existence of such persons is to be attributed to ant of education! illMtraining! and an e#il constitution of the )tateK True. )uch! then! is the form and such are the e#ils of oligarchyO

and there may be many other e#ils. %ery likely. Then oligarchy! or the form of go#ernment in hich the rulers are elected for their ealth! may no be dismissed. <et us next proceed to consider the nature and origin of the indi#idual ho ans ers to this )tate. &y all means. "oes not the timocratical man change into the oligarchical on this iseK 'o K = time arri#es hen the representati#e of timocracy has a sonA at first he begins by emulating his father and alking in his footsteps! but presently he sees him of a sudden foundering against the )tate as upon a sunken reef! and he and all that he has is lostO he may ha#e been a general or some other high officer ho is brought to trial under a prejudice raised by informers! and either put to death! or exiled! or depri#ed of the pri#ileges of a citi7en! and all his property taken from him. 9othing more likely. =nd the son has seen and kno n all thisMMhe is a ruined man! and his fear has taught him to knock ambition and passion headMforemost from his bosom.s throneO humbled by po#erty he takes to moneyMmaking and by mean and miserly sa#ings and hard ork gets a fortune together. -s not such an one likely to seat the concupiscent and co#etous element on the #acant throne and to suffer it to play the great king ithin him! girt ith tiara and chain and scimitarK ;ost true! he replied. =nd hen he has made reason and spirit sit do n on the ground obediently on either side of their so#ereign! and taught them to kno their place! he compels the one to think only of ho lesser sums may be turned into larger ones! and ill not allo the other to orship and admire

anything but riches and rich men! or to be ambitious of anything so much as the acNuisition of ealth and the means of acNuiring it. 8f all changes! he said! there is none so speedy or so sure as the con#ersion of the ambitious youth into the a#aricious one. =nd the a#aricious! - said! is the oligarchical youthK Les! he saidO at any rate the indi#idual out of hom he came is like the )tate out of hich oligarchy came. <et us then consider hether there is any likeness bet een them. %ery good. $irst! then! they resemble one another in the #alue hich they set upon ealthK (ertainly. =lso in their penurious! laborious characterO the indi#idual only satisfies his necessary appetites! and confines his expenditure to themO his other desires he subdues! under the idea that they are unprofitable. True. 'e is a shabby fello ! ho sa#es something out of e#erything and makes a purse for himselfO and this is the sort of man hom the #ulgar applaud. -s he not a true image of the )tate hich he representsK 'e appears to me to be soO at any rate money is highly #alued by him as ell as by the )tate. Lou see that he is not a man of culti#ation! - said. - imagine not! he saidO had he been educated he ould ne#er ha#e made a blind god director of his chorus! or gi#en him chief honour. ExcellentD - said. Let considerA ;ust e not further admit

that o ing to this ant of culti#ation there ill be found in him dronelike desires as of pauper and rogue! hich are forcibly kept do n by his general habit of lifeK True. "o you kno here you ill ha#e to look if you ant to disco#er his rogueriesK Where must - lookK Lou should see him here he has some great opportunity of acting dishonestly! as in the guardianship of an orphan. =ye. -t ill be clear enough then that in his ordinary dealings hich gi#e him a reputation for honesty he coerces his bad passions by an enforced #irtueO not making them see that they are rong! or taming them by reason! but by necessity and fear constraining them! and because he trembles for his possessions. To be sure. Les! indeed! my dear friend! but you ill find that the natural desires of the drone commonly exist in him all the same hene#er he has to spend hat is not his o n. Les! and they ill be strong in him too. The man! then! ill be at ar ith himselfO he ill be t o men! and not oneO but! in general! his better desires ill be found to pre#ail o#er his inferior ones. True. $or these reasons such an one ill be more respectable than most peopleO yet the true #irtue of a unanimous and harmonious soul ill flee far a ay and ne#er come near him.

- should expect so. =nd surely! the miser indi#idually ill be an ignoble competitor in a )tate for any pri7e of #ictory! or other object of honourable ambitionO he ill not spend his money in the contest for gloryO so afraid is he of a akening his expensi#e appetites and in#iting them to help and join in the struggleO in true oligarchical fashion he fights ith a small part only of his resources! and the result commonly is that he loses the pri7e and sa#es his money. %ery true. (an e any longer doubt! then! that the miser and moneyMmaker ans ers to the oligarchical )tateK There can be no doubt. 9ext comes democracyO of this the origin and nature ha#e still to be considered by usO and then e ill enNuire into the ays of the democratic man! and bring him up for judgement. That! he said! is our method. Well! - said! and ho does the change from oligarchy into democracy ariseK -s it not on this iseKMMThe good at hich such a )tate alms is to become as rich as possible! a desire hich is insatiableK What thenK The rulers! being a are that their po er rests upon their ealth! refuse to curtail by la the extra#agance of the spendthrift youth because they gain by their ruinO they take interest from them and buy up their estates and thus increase their o n ealth and importanceK To be sure. There can be no doubt that the lo#e of ealth and the spirit of moderation cannot exist together in citi7ens of the same )tate to any considerable extentO one or the other ill be disregarded.

That is tolerably clear. =nd in oligarchical )tates! from the general spread of carelessness and extra#agance! men of good family ha#e often been reduced to beggaryK Les! often. =nd still they remain in the cityO there they are! ready to sting and fully armed! and some of them o e money! some ha#e forfeited their citi7enshipO a third class are in both predicamentsO and they hate and conspire against those ho ha#e got their property! and against e#erybody else! and are eager for re#olution. That is true. 8n the other hand! the men of business! stooping as they alk! and pretending not e#en to see those hom they ha#e already ruined! insert their stingMMthat is! their moneyMMinto some one else ho is not on his guard against them! and reco#er the parent sum many times o#er multiplied into a family of childrenA and so they make drone and pauper to abound in the )tate. Les! he said! there are plenty of themMMthat is certain. The e#il bla7es up like a fireO and they ill not extinguish it! either by restricting a man.s use of his o n property! or by another remedyA What otherK 8ne hich is the next best! and has the ad#antage of compelling the citi7ens to look to their charactersAMM<et there be a general rule that e#ery one shall enter into #oluntary contracts at his o n risk! and there ill be less of this scandalous moneyMmaking! and the e#ils of hich e ere speaking ill be greatly lessened in the )tate. Les! they ill be greatly lessened. =t present the go#ernors! induced by the moti#es hich - ha#e named!

treat their subjects badlyO hile they and their adherents! especially the young men of the go#erning class! are habituated to lead a life of luxury and idleness both of body and mindO they do nothing! and are incapable of resisting either pleasure or pain. %ery true. They themsel#es care only for making money! and are as indifferent as the pauper to the culti#ation of #irtue. Les! Nuite as indifferent. )uch is the state of affairs hich pre#ails among them. =nd often rulers and their subjects may come in one another.s ay! hether on a pilgrimage or a march! as fello Msoldiers or fello MsailorsO aye! and they may obser#e the beha#iour of each other in the #ery moment of dangerMMfor here danger is! there is no fear that the poor ill be despised by the richMM and #ery likely the iry sunburnt poor man may be placed in battle at the side of a ealthy one ho has ne#er spoilt his complexion and has plenty of superfluous fleshMM hen he sees such an one puffing and at his it.s end! ho can he a#oid dra ing the conclusion that men like him are only rich because no one has the courage to despoil themK =nd hen they meet in pri#ate ill not people be saying to one another T8ur arriors are not good for much.K Les! he said! - am Nuite a are that this is their ay of talking. =nd! as in a body hich is diseased the addition of a touch from ithout may bring on illness! and sometimes e#en hen there is no external pro#ocation a commotion may arise ithinMin the same ay here#er there is eakness in the )tate there is also likely to be illness! of hich the occasions may be #ery slight! the one party introducing from ithout their oligarchical! the other their democratical allies! and then the )tate falls sick! and is at ar ith herselfO and may be at times distracted! e#en hen there is no external cause. Les! surely.

=nd then democracy comes into being after the poor ha#e conNuered their opponents! slaughtering some and banishing some! hile to the remainder they gi#e an eNual share of freedom and po erO and this is the form of go#ernment in hich the magistrates are commonly elected by lot. Les! he said! that is the nature of democracy! hether the re#olution has been effected by arms! or hether fear has caused the opposite party to ithdra . =nd no hat is their manner of life! and hat sort of a go#ernment ha#e theyK for as the go#ernment is! such ill be the man. (learly! he said. -n the first place! are they not freeO and is not the city full of freedom and franknessMMa man may say and do hat he likesK TTis said so! he replied. =nd here freedom is! the indi#idual is clearly able to order for himself his o n life as he pleasesK (learly. Then in this kind of )tate there ill be the greatest #ariety of human naturesK There ill. This! then! seems likely to be the fairest of )tates! being an embroidered robe hich is spangled ith e#ery sort of flo er. =nd just as omen and children think a #ariety of colours to be of all things most charming! so there are many men to hom this )tate! hich is spangled ith the manners and characters of mankind! ill appear to be the fairest of )tates. Les. Les! my good )ir! and there ill be no better in hich to look

for a go#ernment. WhyK &ecause of the liberty hich reigns thereMMthey ha#e a complete assortment of constitutionsO and he ho has a mind to establish a )tate! as e ha#e been doing! must go to a democracy as he ould to a ba7aar at hich they sell them! and pick out the one that suits himO then! hen he has made his choice! he may found his )tate. 'e ill be sure to ha#e patterns enough. =nd there being no necessity! - said! for you to go#ern in this )tate! e#en if you ha#e the capacity! or to be go#erned! unless you like! or go to ar hen the rest go to ar! or to be at peace hen others are at peace! unless you are so disposedMMthere being no necessity also! because some la forbids you to hold office or be a dicast! that you should not hold office or be a dicast! if you ha#e a fancyMM is not this a ay of life hich for the moment is supremely delightful $or the moment! yes. =nd is not their humanity to the condemned in some cases Nuite charmingK 'a#e you not obser#ed ho ! in a democracy! many persons! although they ha#e been sentenced to death or exile! just stay here they are and alk about the orldMMthe gentleman parades like a hero! and nobody sees or caresK Les! he replied! many and many a one. )ee too! - said! the forgi#ing spirit of democracy! and the Tdon.t care. about trifles! and the disregard hich she sho s of all the fine principles hich e solemnly laid do n at the foundation of the cityMM as hen e said that! except in the case of some rarely gifted nature! there ne#er ill be a good man ho has not from his childhood been used to play amid things of beauty and make of them a joy and a studyMM ho grandly does she trample all these fine notions of ours under her feet! ne#er gi#ing a thought to the pursuits hich make a statesman! and promoting to honour any one ho professes to be

the people.s friend. Les! she is of a noble spirit. These and other kindred characteristics are proper to democracy! hich is a charming form of go#ernment! full of #ariety and disorder! and dispensing a sort of eNuality to eNuals and uneNuals alike. We kno her ell. (onsider no ! - said! hat manner of man the indi#idual is! or rather consider! as in the case of the )tate! ho he comes into being. %ery good! he said. -s not this the ayMMhe is the son of the miserly and oligarchical father ho has trained him in his o n habitsK Exactly. =nd! like his father! he keeps under by force the pleasures hich are of the spending and not of the getting sort! being those hich are called unnecessaryK 8b#iously. Would you like! for the sake of clearness! to distinguish hich are the necessary and hich are the unnecessary pleasuresK - should. =re not necessary pleasures those of hich e cannot get rid! and of hich the satisfaction is a benefit to usK =nd they are rightly so! because e are framed by nature to desire both hat is beneficial and hat is necessary! and cannot help it. True. We are not rong therefore in calling them necessaryK

We are not. =nd the desires of hich a man may get rid! if he takes pains from his youth up ardsMMof hich the presence! moreo#er! does no good! and in some cases the re#erse of goodMMshall e not be right in saying that all these are unnecessaryK Les! certainly. )uppose e select an example of either kind! in order that e may ha#e a general notion of themK %ery good. Will not the desire of eating! that is! of simple food and condiments! in so far as they are reNuired for health and strength! be of the necessary classK That is hat - should suppose. The pleasure of eating is necessary in t o aysO it does us good and it is essential to the continuance of lifeK Les. &ut the condiments are only necessary in so far as they are good for healthK (ertainly. =nd the desire hich goes beyond this! or more delicate food! or other luxuries! hich might generally be got rid of! if controlled and trained in youth! and is hurtful to the body! and hurtful to the soul in the pursuit of isdom and #irtue! may be rightly called unnecessaryK %ery true. ;ay e not say that these desires spend! and that the others make

money because they conduce to productionK (ertainly. =nd of the pleasures of lo#e! and all other pleasures! the same holds goodK True. =nd the drone of hom e spoke as he ho as surfeited in pleasures and desires of this sort! and as the sla#e of the unnecessary desires! hereas he ho as subject o the necessary only as miserly and oligarchicalK %ery true. =gain! let us see ho the democratical man gro s out of the oligarchicalA the follo ing! as - suspect! is commonly the process. What is the processK When a young man ho has been brought up as e ere just no describing! in a #ulgar and miserly ay! has tasted drones. honey and has come to associate ith fierce and crafty natures ho are able to pro#ide for him all sorts of refinements and #arieties of pleasureMMthen! as you may imagine! the change ill begin of the oligarchical principle ithin him into the democraticalK -ne#itably. =nd as in the city like as helping like! and the change as effected by an alliance from ithout assisting one di#ision of the citi7ens! so too the young man is changed by a class of desires coming from ithout to assist the desires ithin him! that hich is and alike again helping that hich is akin and alikeK (ertainly. =nd if there be any ally hich aids the oligarchical principle ithin him! hether the influence of a father or of kindred!

ad#ising or rebuking him! then there arises in his soul a faction and an opposite faction! and he goes to ar ith himself. -t must be so. =nd there are times hen the democratical principle gi#es ay to the oligarchical! and some of his desires die! and others are banishedO a spirit of re#erence enters into the young man.s soul and order is restored. Les! he said! that sometimes happens. =nd then! again! after the old desires ha#e been dri#en out! fresh ones spring up! hich are akin to them! and because he! their father! does not kno ho to educate them! ax fierce and numerous. Les! he said! that is apt to be the ay. They dra him to his old associates! and holding secret intercourse ith them! breed and multiply in him. %ery true. =t length they sei7e upon the citadel of the young man.s soul! hich they percei#e to be #oid of all accomplishments and fair pursuits and true ords! hich make their abode in the minds of men ho are dear to the gods! and are their best guardians and sentinels. 9one better. $alse and boastful conceits and phrases mount up ards and take their place. They are certain to do so. =nd so the young man returns into the country of the lotusMeaters! and takes up his d elling there in the face of all menO and if any help be sent by his friends to the oligarchical part of him! the aforesaid #ain conceits shut the gate of the king.s fastnessO

and they ill neither allo the embassy itself to enter! pri#ate if pri#ate ad#isers offer the fatherly counsel of the aged ill they listen to them or recei#e them. There is a battle and they gain the day! and then modesty! hich they call silliness! is ignominiously thrust into exile by them! and temperance! hich they nickname unmanliness! is trampled in the mire and cast forthO they persuade men that moderation and orderly expenditure are #ulgarity and meanness! and so! by the help of a rabble of e#il appetites! they dri#e them beyond the border. Les! ith a ill. =nd hen they ha#e emptied and s ept clean the soul of him ho is no in their po er and ho is being initiated by them in great mysteries! the next thing is to bring back to their house insolence and anarchy and aste and impudence in bright array ha#ing garlands on their heads! and a great company ith them! hymning their praises and calling them by s eet namesO insolence they term breeding! and anarchy liberty! and aste magnificence! and impudence courage. =nd so the young man passes out of his original nature! hich as trained in the school of necessity! into the freedom and libertinism of useless and unnecessary pleasures. Les! he said! the change in him is #isible enough. =fter this he li#es on! spending his money and labour and time on unnecessary pleasures Nuite as much as on necessary onesO but if he be fortunate! and is not too much disordered in his its! hen years ha#e elapsed! and the heyday of passion is o#erMM supposing that he then reMadmits into the city some part of the exiled #irtues! and does not holly gi#e himself up to their successorsMMin that case he balances his pleasures and li#es in a sort of eNuilibrium! putting the go#ernment of himself into the hands of the one hich comes first and ins the turnO and hen he has had enough of that! then into the hands of anotherO he despises none of them but encourages them all eNually. %ery true! he said. 9either does he recei#e or let pass into the fortress any true

ord of ad#iceO if any one says to him that some pleasures are the satisfactions of good and noble desires! and others of e#il desires! and that he ought to use and honour some and chastise and master the othersMM hene#er this is repeated to him he shakes his head and says that they are all alike! and that one is as good as another. Les! he saidO that is the ay ith him. Les! - said! he li#es from day to day indulging the appetite of the hourO and sometimes he is lapped in drink and strains of the fluteO then he becomes a aterMdrinker! and tries to get thinO then he takes a turn at gymnasticsO sometimes idling and neglecting e#erything! then once more li#ing the life of a philosopherO often heMis busy ith politics! and starts to his feet and says and does hate#er comes into his headO and! if he is emulous of any one ho is a arrior! off he is in that direction! or of men of business! once more in that. 'is life has neither la nor orderO and this distracted existence he terms joy and bliss and freedomO and so he goes on. Les! he replied! he is all liberty and eNuality. Les! - saidO his life is motley and manifold and an epitome of the li#es of manyOMMhe ans ers to the )tate hich e described as fair and spangled. =nd many a man and many a oman ill take him for their pattern! and many a constitution and many an example of manners is contained in him. /ust so. <et him then be set o#er against democracyO he may truly be called the democratic man. <et that be his place! he said. <ast of all comes the most beautiful of all! man and )tate alike! tyranny and the tyrantO these e ha#e no to consider. Puite true! he said.

)ay then! my friend! in hat manner does tyranny ariseKMMthat it has a democratic origin is e#ident. (learly. =nd does not tyranny spring from democracy in the same manner as democracy from oligarchyMM- mean! after a sortK 'o K The good hich oligarchy proposed to itself and the means by hich it as maintained as excess of ealthMMam - not rightK Les. =nd the insatiable desire of ealth and the neglect of all other things for the sake of moneyMgetting as also the ruin of oligarchyK True. =nd democracy has her o n good! of hich the insatiable desire brings her to dissolutionK What goodK $reedom! - repliedO hich! as they tell you in a democracy! is the glory of the )tateMMand that therefore in a democracy alone ill the freeman of nature deign to d ell. LesO the saying is in e#erybody.s mouth. - as going to obser#e! that the insatiable desire of this and the neglect of other things introduces the change in democracy! hich occasions a demand for tyranny. 'o soK When a democracy hich is thirsting for freedom has e#il cupbearers presiding o#er the feast! and has drunk too deeply of the strong ine of freedom! then! unless her rulers are #ery amenable and gi#e

a plentiful draught! she calls them to account and punishes them! and says that they are cursed oligarchs. Les! he replied! a #ery common occurrence. Les! - saidO and loyal citi7ens are insultingly termed by her sla#es ho hug their chains and men of naughtO she ould ha#e subjects ho are like rulers! and rulers ho are like subjectsA these are men after her o n heart! hom she praises and honours both in pri#ate and public. 9o ! in such a )tate! can liberty ha#e any limitK (ertainly not. &y degrees the anarchy finds a ay into pri#ate houses! and ends by getting among the animals and infecting them. 'o do you meanK - mean that the father gro s accustomed to descend to the le#el of his sons and to fear them! and the son is on a le#el ith his father! he ha#ing no respect or re#erence for either of his parentsO and this is his freedom! and metic is eNual ith the citi7en and the citi7en ith the metic! and the stranger is Nuite as good as either. Les! he said! that is the ay. =nd these are not the only e#ils! - saidMMthere are se#eral lesser onesA -n such a state of society the master fears and flatters his scholars! and the scholars despise their masters and tutorsO young and old are all alikeO and the young man is on a le#el ith the old! and is ready to compete ith him in ord or deedO and old men condescend to the young and are full of pleasantry and gaietyO they are loth to be thought morose and authoritati#e! and therefore they adopt the manners of the young. Puite true! he said. The last extreme of popular liberty is hen the sla#e bought ith money!

hether male or female! is just as free as his or her purchaserO nor must - forget to tell of the liberty and eNuality of the t o sexes in relation to each other. Why not! as =eschylus says! utter the ord hich rises to our lipsK That is hat - am doing! - repliedO and - must add that no one ho does not kno ould belie#e! ho much greater is the liberty hich the animals ho are under the dominion of man ha#e in a democracy than in any other )tateA for truly! the sheMdogs! as the pro#erb says! are as good as their sheMmistresses! and the horses and asses ha#e a ay of marching along ith all the rights and dignities of freemenO and they ill run at anybody ho comes in their ay if he does not lea#e the road clear for themA and all things are just ready to burst ith liberty. When - take a country alk! he said! - often experience hat you describe. Lou and - ha#e dreamed the same thing. =nd abo#e all! - said! and as the result of all! see ho sensiti#e the citi7ens becomeO they chafe impatiently at the least touch of authority and at length! as you kno ! they cease to care e#en for the la s! ritten or un rittenO they ill ha#e no one o#er them. Les! he said! - kno it too ell. )uch! my friend! - said! is the fair and glorious beginning out of hich springs tyranny. Glorious indeed! he said. &ut hat is the next stepK The ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracyO the same disease magnified and intensified by liberty o#ermasters democracyMM the truth being that the excessi#e increase of anything often causes a reaction in the opposite directionO and this is the case not only in the seasons and in #egetable and animal life! but abo#e all in forms of go#ernment. True.

The excess of liberty! hether in )tates or indi#iduals! seems only to pass into excess of sla#ery. Les! the natural order. =nd so tyranny naturally arises out of democracy! and the most aggra#ated form of tyranny and sla#ery out of the most extreme form of libertyK =s e might expect. That! ho e#er! as not! as - belie#e! your NuestionMyou rather desired to kno hat is that disorder hich is generated alike in oligarchy and democracy! and is the ruin of bothK /ust so! he replied. Well! - said! - meant to refer to the class of idle spendthrifts! of hom the more courageous are theMleaders and the more timid the follo ers! the same hom e ere comparing to drones! some stingless! and others ha#ing stings. = #ery just comparison. These t o classes are the plagues of e#ery city in hich they are generated! being hat phlegm and bile are to the body. =nd the good physician and la gi#er of the )tate ought! like the ise beeMmaster! to keep them at a distance and pre#ent! if possible! their e#er coming inO and if they ha#e anyho found a ay in! then he should ha#e them and their cells cut out as speedily as possible. Les! by all means! he said. Then! in order that e may see clearly hat e are doing! let us imagine democracy to be di#ided! as indeed it is! into three classesO for in the first place freedom creates rather more drones in the democratic than there ere in the oligarchical )tate. That is true.

=nd in the democracy they are certainly more intensified. 'o soK &ecause in the oligarchical )tate they are disNualified and dri#en from office! and therefore they cannot train or gather strengthO hereas in a democracy they are almost the entire ruling po er! and hile the keener sort speak and act! the rest keep bu77ing about the bema and do not suffer a ord to be said on the other sideO hence in democracies almost e#erything is managed by the drones. %ery true! he said. Then there is another class hich is al ays being se#ered from the mass. What is thatK They are the orderly class! hich in a nation of traders sure to be the richest. 9aturally so. They are the most sNuee7able persons and yield the largest amount of honey to the drones. Why! he said! there is little to be sNuee7ed out of people ho ha#e little. =nd this is called the ealthy class! and the drones feed upon them. That is pretty much the case! he said. The people are a third class! consisting of those ho ork ith their o n handsO they are not politicians! and ha#e not much to li#e upon. This! hen assembled! is the largest and most po erful class in a democracy. True! he saidO but then the multitude is seldom illing to congregate

unless they get a little honey. =nd do they not shareK - said. "o not their leaders depri#e the rich of their estates and distribute them among the peopleO at the same time taking care to reser#e the larger part for themsel#esK Why! yes! he said! to that extent the people do share. =nd the persons hose property is taken from them are compelled to defend themsel#es before the people as they best canK What else can they doK =nd then! although they may ha#e no desire of change! the others charge them ith plotting against the people and being friends of oligarchyK True. =nd the end is that hen they see the people! not of their o n accord! but through ignorance! and because they are decei#ed by informers! seeking to do them rong! then at last they are forced to become oligarchs in realityO they do not ish to be! but the sting of the drones torments them and breeds re#olution in them. That is exactly the truth. Then come impeachments and judgments and trials of one another. True. The people ha#e al ays some champion hom they set o#er them and nurse into greatness. Les! that is their ay. This and no other is the root from hich a tyrant springsO hen he first appears abo#e ground he is a protector. Les! that is Nuite clear. 'o then does a protector begin to change into a tyrantK

(learly hen he does hat the man is said to do in the tale of the =rcadian temple of <ycaean Ueus. What taleK The tale is that he ho has tasted the entrails of a single human #ictim minced up ith the entrails of other #ictims is destined to become a olf. "id you ne#er hear itK 8h! yes. =nd the protector of the people is like himO ha#ing a mob entirely at his disposal! he is not restrained from shedding the blood of kinsmenO by the fa#ourite method of false accusation he brings them into court and murders them! making the life of man to disappear! and ith unholy tongue and lips tasting the blood of his fello citi7enO some he kills and others he banishes! at the same time hinting at the abolition of debts and partition of landsA and after this! hat ill be his destinyK ;ust he not either perish at the hands of his enemies! or from being a man become a olfMMthat is! a tyrantK -ne#itably. This! - said! is he ho begins to make a party against the richK The same. =fter a hile he is dri#en out! but comes back! in spite of his enemies! a tyrant full gro n. That is clear. =nd if they are unable to expel him! or to get him condemned to death by a public accusation! they conspire to assassinate him. Les! he said! that is their usual ay. Then comes the famous reNuest for a bodyguard! hich is the de#ice of all those ho ha#e got thus far in their tyrannical careerMMT<et

not the people.s friend!. as they say! Tbe lost to them.. Exactly. The people readily assentO all their fears are for himMM they ha#e none for themsel#es. %ery true. =nd hen a man ho is ealthy and is also accused of being an enemy of the people sees this! then! my friend! as the oracle said to (roesus! &y pebbly 'ermus. shore he flees and rests not and is not ashamed to be a co ard. =nd Nuite right too! said he! for if he ere! he ould ne#er be ashamed again. &ut if he is caught he dies. 8f course. =nd he! the protector of hom e spoke! is to be seen! not Tlarding the plain. ith his bulk! but himself the o#erthro er of many! standing up in the chariot of )tate ith the reins in his hand! no longer protector! but tyrant absolute. 9o doubt! he said. =nd no let us consider the happiness of the man! and also of the )tate in hich a creature like him is generated. Les! he said! let us consider that. =t first! in the early days of his po er! he is full of smiles! and he salutes e#ery one hom he meetsOMMhe to be called a tyrant! ho is making promises in public and also in pri#ateD liberating debtors! and distributing land to the people and his follo ers! and anting to be so kind and good to e#ery oneD

8f course! he said. &ut hen he has disposed of foreign enemies by conNuest or treaty! and there is nothing to fear from them! then he is al ays stirring up some ar or other! in order that the people may reNuire a leader. To be sure. 'as he not also another object! hich is that they may be impo#erished by payment of taxes! and thus compelled to de#ote themsel#es to their daily ants and therefore less likely to conspire against himK (learly. =nd if any of them are suspected by him of ha#ing notions of freedom! and of resistance to his authority! he ill ha#e a good pretext for destroying them by placing them at the mercy of the enemyO and for all these reasons the tyrant must be al ays getting up a ar. 'e must. 9o he begins to gro unpopular. = necessary result. Then some of those ho joined in setting him up! and ho are in po er! speak their minds to him and to one another! and the more courageous of them cast in his teeth hat is being done. Les! that may be expected. =nd the tyrant! if he means to rule! must get rid of themO he cannot stop hile he has a friend or an enemy ho is good for anything. 'e cannot. =nd therefore he must look about him and see ho is #aliant! ho is highMminded! ho is ise! ho is ealthyO happy man! he is the enemy of them all! and must seek occasion against them hether he ill or no! until he has made a purgation of the )tate.

Les! he said! and a rare purgation. Les! - said! not the sort of purgation hich the physicians make of the bodyO for they take a ay the orse and lea#e the better part! but he does the re#erse. -f he is to rule! - suppose that he cannot help himself. What a blessed alternati#e! - saidAMMto be compelled to d ell only ith the many bad! and to be by them hated! or not to li#e at allD Les! that is the alternati#e. =nd the more detestable his actions are to the citi7ens the more satellites and the greater de#otion in them ill he reNuireK (ertainly. =nd ho are the de#oted band! and here ill he procure themK They ill flock to him! he said! of their o n accord! if lie pays them. &y the dogD - said! here are more drones! of e#ery sort and from e#ery land. Les! he said! there are. &ut ill he not desire to get them on the spotK 'o do you meanK 'e ill rob the citi7ens of their sla#esO he ill then set them free and enrol them in his bodyguard. To be sure! he saidO and he ill be able to trust them best of all. What a blessed creature! - said! must this tyrant beO he has put to death the others and has these for his trusted friends. Les! he saidO they are Nuite of his sort.

Les! - said! and these are the ne citi7ens hom he has called into existence! ho admire him and are his companions! hile the good hate and a#oid him. 8f course. %erily! then! tragedy is a ise thing and Euripides a great tragedian. Why soK Why! because he is the author of the pregnant saying! Tyrants are ise by li#ing ith the iseO and he clearly meant to say that they are the ise hom the tyrant makes his companions. Les! he said! and he also praises tyranny as godlikeO and many other things of the same kind are said by him and by the other poets. =nd therefore! - said! the tragic poets being ise men ill forgi#e us and any others ho li#e after our manner if e do not recei#e them into our )tate! because they are the eulogists of tyranny. Les! he said! those ho ha#e the it ill doubtless forgi#e us. &ut they ill continue to go to other cities and attract mobs! and hire #oices fair and loud and persuasi#e! and dra the cities o#er to tyrannies and democracies. %ery true. ;oreo#er! they are paid for this and recei#e honourMMthe greatest honour! as might be expected! from tyrants! and the next greatest from democraciesO but the higher they ascend our constitution hill! the more their reputation fails! and seems unable from shortness of breath to proceed further. True.

&ut e are andering from the subjectA <et us therefore return and enNuire ho the tyrant ill maintain that fair and numerous and #arious and e#erMchanging army of his. -f! he said! there are sacred treasures in the city! he ill confiscate and spend themO and in so far as the fortunes of attainted persons may suffice! he ill be able to diminish the taxes hich he ould other ise ha#e to impose upon the people. =nd hen these failK Why! clearly! he said! then he and his boon companions! hether male or female! ill be maintained out of his father.s estate. Lou mean to say that the people! from hom he has deri#ed his being! ill maintain him and his companionsK Les! he saidO they cannot help themsel#es. &ut hat if the people fly into a passion! and a#er that a gro nMup son ought not to be supported by his father! but that the father should be supported by the sonK The father did not bring him into being! or settle him in life! in order that hen his son became a man he should himself be the ser#ant of his o n ser#ants and should support him and his rabble of sla#es and companionsO but that his son should protect him! and that by his help he might be emancipated from the go#ernment of the rich and aristocratic! as they are termed. =nd so he bids him and his companions depart! just as any other father might dri#e out of the house a riotous son and his undesirable associates. &y hea#en! he said! then the parent ill disco#er hat a monster he has been fostering in his bosomO and! hen he ants to dri#e him out! he ill find that he is eak and his son strong. Why! you do not mean to say that the tyrant ill use #iolenceK WhatD beat his father if he opposes himK Les! he ill! ha#ing first disarmed him.

Then he is a parricide! and a cruel guardian of an aged parentO and this is real tyranny! about hich there can be no longer a mistakeA as the saying is! the people ho ould escape the smoke hich is the sla#ery of freemen! has fallen into the fire hich is the tyranny of sla#es. Thus liberty! getting out of all order and reason! passes into the harshest and bitterest form of sla#ery. True! he said. %ery ellO and may e not rightly say that e ha#e sufficiently discussed the nature of tyranny! and the manner of the transition from democracy to tyrannyK Les! Nuite enough! he said.

&88Q -J )8(R=TE) M ="E-;=9T:) <=)T of all comes the tyrannical manO about hom e ha#e once more to ask! ho is he formed out of the democraticalK and ho does he li#e! in happiness or in miseryK Les! he said! he is the only one remaining. There is! ho e#er! - said! a pre#ious Nuestion hich remains unans ered. What NuestionK - do not think that e ha#e adeNuately determined the nature and number of the appetites! and until this is accomplished the enNuiry ill al ays be confused. Well! he said! it is not too late to supply the omission.

%ery true! - saidO and obser#e the point hich - ant to understandA (ertain of the unnecessary pleasures and appetites - concei#e to be unla fulO e#ery one appears to ha#e them! but in some persons they are controlled by the la s and by reason! and the better desires pre#ail o#er themMeither they are holly banished or they become fe and eakO hile in the case of others they are stronger! and there are more of them. Which appetites do you meanK - mean those hich are a ake hen the reasoning and human and ruling po er is asleepO then the ild beast ithin us! gorged ith meat or drink! starts up and ha#ing shaken off sleep! goes forth to satisfy his desiresO and there is no concei#able folly or crimeMM not excepting incest or any other unnatural union! or parricide! or the eating of forbidden foodMM hich at such a time! hen he has parted company ith all shame and sense! a man may not be ready to commit. ;ost true! he said. &ut hen a man.s pulse is healthy and temperate! and hen before going to sleep he has a akened his rational po ers! and fed them on noble thoughts and enNuiries! collecting himself in meditationO after ha#ing first indulged his appetites neither too much nor too little! but just enough to lay them to sleep! and pre#ent them and their enjoyments and pains from interfering ith the higher principleMM hich he lea#es in the solitude of pure abstraction! free to contemplate and aspire to the kno ledge of the unkno n! hether in past! present! or futureA hen again he has allayed the passionate element! if he has a Nuarrel against any oneMM - say! hen! after pacifying the t o irrational principles! he rouses up the third! hich is reason! before he takes his rest! then! as you kno ! he attains truth most nearly! and is least likely to be the sport of fantastic and la less #isions. - Nuite agree. -n saying this - ha#e been running into a digressionO but the point

hich - desire to note is that in all of us! e#en in good men! there is a la less ildMbeast nature! hich peers out in sleep. Pray! consider hether - am right! and you agree ith me. Les! - agree. =nd no remember the character hich e attributed to the democratic man. 'e as supposed from his youth up ards to ha#e been trained under a miserly parent! ho encouraged the sa#ing appetites in him! but discountenanced the unnecessary! hich aim only at amusement and ornamentK True. =nd then he got into the company of a more refined! licentious sort of people! and taking to all their anton ays rushed into the opposite extreme from an abhorrence of his father.s meanness. =t last! being a better man than his corruptors! he as dra n in both directions until he halted mid ay and led a life! not of #ulgar and sla#ish passion! but of hat he deemed moderate indulgence in #arious pleasures. =fter this manner the democrat as generated out of the oligarchK Les! he saidO that as our #ie of him! and is so still. =nd no ! - said! years ill ha#e passed a ay! and you must concei#e this man! such as he is! to ha#e a son! ho is brought up in his father.s principles. - can imagine him. Then you must further imagine the same thing to happen to the son hich has already happened to the fatherAMMhe is dra n into a perfectly la less life! hich by his seducers is termed perfect libertyO and his father and friends take part ith his moderate desires! and the opposite party assist the opposite ones. =s soon as these dire magicians and tyrantMmakers find that they are losing their hold on him! they contri#e to implant in him a master passion! to be lord o#er his idle and spendthrift lustsMMa sort of monstrous inged droneMM that is the only image hich ill adeNuately describe him.

Les! he said! that is the only adeNuate image of him. =nd hen his other lusts! amid clouds of incense and perfumes and garlands and ines! and all the pleasures of a dissolute life! no let loose! come bu77ing around him! nourishing to the utmost the sting of desire hich they implant in his droneMlike nature! then at last this lord of the soul! ha#ing ;adness for the captain of his guard! breaks out into a fren7yA and if he finds in himself any good opinions or appetites in process of formation! and there is in him any sense of shame remaining! to these better principles he puts an end! and casts them forth until he has purged a ay temperance and brought in madness to the full. Les! he said! that is the ay in hich the tyrannical man is generated. =nd is not this the reason hy of old lo#e has been called a tyrantK - should not onder. $urther! - said! has not a drunken man also the spirit of a tyrantK 'e has. =nd you kno that a man ho is deranged and not right in his mind! ill fancy that he is able to rule! not only o#er men! but also o#er the godsK That he ill. =nd the tyrannical man in the true sense of the ord comes into being hen! either under the influence of nature! or habit! or both! he becomes drunken! lustful! passionateK 8 my friend! is not that soK =ssuredly. )uch is the man and such is his origin. =nd next! ho does he li#eK )uppose! as people facetiously say! you ere to tell me.

- imagine! - said! at the next step in his progress! that there ill be feasts and carousals and re#ellings and courte7ans! and all that sort of thingO <o#e is the lord of the house ithin him! and orders all the concerns of his soul. That is certain. LesO and e#ery day and e#ery night desires gro up many and formidable! and their demands are many. They are indeed! he said. 'is re#enues! if he has any! are soon spent. True. Then comes debt and the cutting do n of his property. 8f course. When he has nothing left! must not his desires! cro ding in the nest like young ra#ens! be crying aloud for foodO and he! goaded on by them! and especially by lo#e himself! ho is in a manner the captain of them! is in a fren7y! and ould fain disco#er hom he can defraud or despoil of his property! in order that he may gratify themK Les! that is sure to be the case. 'e must ha#e money! no matter ho ! if he is to escape horrid pains and pangs. 'e must. =nd as in himself there as a succession of pleasures! and the ne got the better of the old and took a ay their rights! so he being younger ill claim to ha#e more than his father and his mother! and if he has spent his o n share of the property! he ill take a slice of theirs.

9o doubt he ill. =nd if his parents ill not gi#e ay! then he ill try first of all to cheat and decei#e them. %ery true. =nd if he fails! then he ill use force and plunder them. Les! probably. =nd if the old man and oman fight for their o n! hat then! my friendK Will the creature feel any compunction at tyranni7ing o#er themK 9ay! he said! - should not feel at all comfortable about his parents. &ut! 8 hea#ensD =deimantus! on account of some ne fangled lo#e of a harlot! ho is anything but a necessary connection! can you belie#e that he ould strike the mother ho is his ancient friend and necessary to his #ery existence! and ould place her under the authority of the other! hen she is brought under the same roof ith herO or that! under like circumstances! he ould do the same to his ithered old father! first and most indispensable of friends! for the sake of some ne ly found blooming youth ho is the re#erse of indispensableK Les! indeed! he saidO - belie#e that he ould. Truly! then! - said! a tyrannical son is a blessing to his father and mother. 'e is indeed! he replied. 'e first takes their property! and hen that falls! and pleasures are beginning to s arm in the hi#e of his soul! then he breaks into a house! or steals the garments of some nightly ayfarerO next he proceeds to clear a temple. ;ean hile the old opinions hich he had hen a child! and hich ga#e judgment about good and e#il! are o#erthro n by those others hich ha#e just been emancipated! and are no the bodyguard of lo#e and share his empire.

These in his democratic days! hen he as still subject to the la s and to his father! ere only let loose in the dreams of sleep. &ut no that he is under the dominion of lo#e! he becomes al ays and in aking reality hat he as then #ery rarely and in a dream onlyO he ill commit the foulest murder! or eat forbidden food! or be guilty of any other horrid act. <o#e is his tyrant! and li#es lordly in him and la lessly! and being himself a king! leads him on! as a tyrant leads a )tate! to the performance of any reckless deed by hich he can maintain himself and the rabble of his associates! hether those hom e#il communications ha#e brought in from ithout! or those hom he himself has allo ed to break loose ithin him by reason of a similar e#il nature in himself. 'a#e e not here a picture of his ay of lifeK Les! indeed! he said. =nd if there are only a fe of them in the )tate! the rest of the people are ell disposed! they go a ay and become the bodyguard or mercenary soldiers of some other tyrant ho may probably ant them for a arO and if there is no ar! they stay at home and do many little pieces of mischief in the city. What sort of mischiefK $or example! they are the thie#es! burglars! cutpurses! footpads! robbers of temples! manMstealers of the communityO or if they are able to speak they turn informers! and bear false itness! and take bribes. = small catalogue of e#ils! e#en if the perpetrators of them are fe in number. Les! - saidO but small and great are comparati#e terms! and all these things! in the misery and e#il hich they inflict upon a )tate! do not come ithin a thousand miles of the tyrantO hen this noxious class and their follo ers gro numerous and become conscious of their strength! assisted by the infatuation of the people! they choose from among themsel#es the one ho has most of the tyrant in his o n soul! and him they create their tyrant.

Les! he said! and he ill be the most fit to be a tyrant. -f the people yield! ell and goodO but if they resist him! as he began by beating his o n father and mother! so no ! if he has the po er! he beats them! and ill keep his dear old fatherland or motherland! as the (retans say! in subjection to his young retainers hom he has introduced to be their rulers and masters. This is the end of his passions and desires. Exactly. When such men are only pri#ate indi#iduals and before they get po er! this is their characterO they associate entirely ith their o n flatterers or ready toolsO or if they ant anything from anybody! they in their turn are eNually ready to bo do n before themA they profess e#ery sort of affection for themO but hen they ha#e gained their point they kno them no more. Les! truly. They are al ays either the masters or ser#ants and ne#er the friends of anybodyO the tyrant ne#er tastes of true freedom or friendship. (ertainly not. =nd may e not rightly call such men treacherousK 9o Nuestion. =lso they are utterly unjust! if e ere right in our notion of justiceK Les! he said! and e ere perfectly right. <et us then sum up in a ord! - said! the character of the orst manA he is the aking reality of hat e dreamed. ;ost true. =nd this is he ho being by nature most of a tyrant bears rule!

and the longer he li#es the more of a tyrant he becomes. )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 That is certain! said Glaucon! taking his turn to ans er. =nd ill not he ho has been sho n to be the ickedest! be also the most miserableK and he ho has tyranni7ed longest and most! most continually and truly miserableO although this may not be the opinion of men in generalK Les! he said! ine#itably. =nd must not the tyrannical man be like the tyrannical! )tate! and the democratical man like the democratical )tateO and the same of the othersK (ertainly. =nd as )tate is to )tate in #irtue and happiness! so is man in relation to manK To be sure. Then comparing our original city! hich as under a king! and the city hich is under a tyrant! ho do they stand as to #irtueK They are the opposite extremes! he said! for one is the #ery best and the other is the #ery orst. There can be no mistake! - said! as to hich is hich! and therefore - ill at once enNuire hether you ould arri#e at a similar decision about their relati#e happiness and misery. =nd here e must not allo oursel#es to be panicMstricken at the apparition of the tyrant! ho is only a unit and may perhaps ha#e a fe retainers about himO but let us go as e ought into e#ery corner of the city and look all about! and then e ill gi#e our opinion. = fair in#itation! he repliedO and - see! as e#ery one must! that a tyranny is the retchedest form of go#ernment! and the rule of a king the happiest.

=nd in estimating the men too! may - not fairly make a like reNuest! that - should ha#e a judge hose mind can enter into and see through human natureK 'e must not be like a child ho looks at the outside and is da77led at the pompous aspect hich the tyrannical nature assumes to the beholder! but let him be one ho has a clear insight. ;ay - suppose that the judgment is gi#en in the hearing of us all by one ho is able to judge! and has d elt in the same place ith him! and been present at his dally life and kno n him in his family relations! here he may be seen stripped of his tragedy attire! and again in the hour of public dangerMMhe shall tell us about the happiness and misery of the tyrant hen compared ith other menK That again! he said! is a #ery fair proposal. )hall - assume that e oursel#es are able and experienced judges and ha#e before no met ith such a personK We shall then ha#e some one ho ill ans er our enNuiries. &y all means. <et me ask you not to forget the parallel of the indi#idual and the )tateO bearing this in mind! and glancing in turn from one to the other of them! ill you tell me their respecti#e conditionsK What do you meanK he asked. &eginning ith the )tate! - replied! ould you say that a city hich is go#erned by a tyrant is free or ensla#edK 9o city! he said! can be more completely ensla#ed. =nd yet! as you see! there are freemen as ell as masters in such a )tateK Les! he said! - see that there areMMa fe O but the people! speaking generally! and the best of them! are miserably degraded and ensla#ed. Then if the man is like the )tate! - said! must not the same rule

pre#ailK his soul is full of meanness and #ulgarityMMthe best elements in him are ensla#edO and there is a small ruling part! hich is also the orst and maddest. -ne#itably. =nd ould you say that the soul of such an one is the soul of a freeman! or of a sla#eK 'e has the soul of a sla#e! in my opinion. =nd the )tate hich is ensla#ed under a tyrant is utterly incapable of acting #oluntarilyK :tterly incapable. =nd also the soul hich is under a tyrant >- am speaking of the soul taken as a hole? is least capable of doing hat she desiresO there is a gadfly hich goads her! and she is full of trouble and remorseK (ertainly. =nd is the city hich is under a tyrant rich or poorK Poor. =nd the tyrannical soul must be al ays poor and insatiableK True. =nd must not such a )tate and such a man be al ays full of fearK Les! indeed. -s there any )tate in hich you ill find more of lamentation and sorro and groaning and painK (ertainly not.

=nd is there any man in hom you ill find more of this sort of misery than in the tyrannical man! ho is in a fury of passions and desiresK -mpossible. Reflecting upon these and similar e#ils! you held the tyrannical )tate to be the most miserable of )tatesK =nd - as right! he said. (ertainly! - said. =nd hen you see the same e#ils in the tyrannical man! hat do you say of himK - say that he is by far the most miserable of all men. There! - said! - think that you are beginning to go rong. What do you meanK - do not think that he has as yet reached the utmost extreme of misery. Then ho is more miserableK 8ne of hom - am about to speak. Who is thatK 'e ho is of a tyrannical nature! and instead of leading a pri#ate life has been cursed ith the further misfortune of being a public tyrant. $rom hat has been said! - gather that you are right. Les! - replied! but in this high argument you should be a little more certain! and should not conjecture onlyO for of all Nuestions! this respecting good and e#il is the greatest. %ery true! he said. <et me then offer you an illustration! hich may! - think! thro a light upon this subject.

What is your illustrationK The case of rich indi#iduals in cities ho possess many sla#esA from them you may form an idea of the tyrant.s condition! for they both ha#e sla#esO the only difference is that he has more sla#es. Les! that is the difference. Lou kno that they li#e securely and ha#e nothing to apprehend from their ser#antsK What should they fearK 9othing. &ut do you obser#e the reason of thisK LesO the reason is! that the hole city is leagued together for the protection of each indi#idual. %ery true! - said. &ut imagine one of these o ners! the master say of some fifty sla#es! together ith his family and property and sla#es! carried off by a god into the ilderness! here there are no freemen to help himMM ill he not be in an agony of fear lest he and his ife and children should be put to death by his sla#esK Les! he said! he ill be in the utmost fear. The time has arri#ed hen he ill be compelled to flatter di#ers of his sla#es! and make many promises to them of freedom and other things! much against his illMMhe ill ha#e to cajole his o n ser#ants. Les! he said! that ill be the only ay of sa#ing himself. =nd suppose the same god! ho carried him a ay! to surround him ith neighbours ho ill not suffer one man to be the master of another! and ho! if they could catch the offender! ould take his lifeK 'is case ill be still orse! if you suppose him to be e#ery here surrounded and atched by enemies.

=nd is not this the sort of prison in hich the tyrant ill be boundMM he ho being by nature such as e ha#e described! is full of all sorts of fears and lustsK 'is soul is dainty and greedy! and yet alone! of all men in the city! he is ne#er allo ed to go on a journey! or to see the things hich other freemen desire to see! but he li#es in his hole like a oman hidden in the house! and is jealous of any other citi7en ho goes into foreign parts and sees anything of interest. %ery true! he said. =nd amid e#ils such as these ill not he ho is illMgo#erned in his o n personMMthe tyrannical man! - meanMM hom you just no decided to be the most miserable of allMM ill not he be yet more miserable hen! instead of leading a pri#ate life! he is constrained by fortune to be a public tyrantK 'e has to be master of others hen he is not master of himselfA he is like a diseased or paralytic man ho is compelled to pass his life! not in retirement! but fighting and combating ith other men. Les! he said! the similitude is most exact. -s not his case utterly miserableK and does not the actual tyrant lead a orse life than he hose life you determined to be the orstK (ertainly. 'e ho is the real tyrant! hate#er men may think! is the real sla#e! and is obliged to practise the greatest adulation and ser#ility! and to be the flatterer of the #ilest of mankind. 'e has desires hich he is utterly unable to satisfy! and has more ants than any one! and is truly poor! if you kno ho to inspect the hole soul of himA all his life long he is beset ith fear and is full of con#ulsions! and distractions! e#en as the )tate hich he resemblesA and surely the resemblance holdsK %ery true! he said. ;oreo#er! as e ere saying before! he gro s orse from ha#ing po erA

he becomes and is of necessity more jealous! more faithless! more unjust! more friendless! more impious! than he as at firstO he is the pur#eyor and cherisher of e#ery sort of #ice! and the conseNuence is that he is supremely miserable! and that he makes e#erybody else as miserable as himself. 9o man of any sense ill dispute your ords. (ome then! - said! and as the general umpire in theatrical contests proclaims the result! do you also decide ho in your opinion is first in the scale of happiness! and ho second! and in hat order the others follo A there are fi#e of them in allMM they are the royal! timocratical! oligarchical! democratical! tyrannical. The decision ill be easily gi#en! he repliedO they shall be choruses coming on the stage! and - must judge them in the order in hich they enter! by the criterion of #irtue and #ice! happiness and misery. 9eed e hire a herald! or shall - announce! that the son of =riston >the best? has decided that the best and justest is also the happiest! and that this is he ho is the most royal man and king o#er himselfO and that the orst and most unjust man is also the most miserable! and that this is he ho being the greatest tyrant of himself is also the greatest tyrant of his )tateK ;ake the proclamation yourself! he said. =nd shall - add! T hether seen or unseen by gods and men.K <et the ords be added. Then this! - said! ill be our first proofO and there is another! hich may also ha#e some eight. What is thatK The second proof is deri#ed from the nature of the soulA seeing that the indi#idual soul! like the )tate! has been di#ided by us into three principles! the di#ision may! - think! furnish a ne demonstration.

8f hat natureK -t seems to me that to these three principles three pleasures correspondO also three desires and go#erning po ers. 'o do you meanK he said. There is one principle ith hich! as e ere saying! a man learns! another ith hich he is angryO the third! ha#ing many forms! has no special name! but is denoted by the general term appetiti#e! from the extraordinary strength and #ehemence of the desires of eating and drinking and the other sensual appetites hich are the main elements of itO also moneyMlo#ing! because such desires are generally satisfied by the help of money. That is true! he said. -f e ere to say that the lo#es and pleasures of this third part ere concerned ith gain! e should then be able to fall back on a single notionO and might truly and intelligibly describe this part of the soul as lo#ing gain or money. - agree ith you. =gain! is not the passionate element holly set on ruling and conNuering and getting fameK True. )uppose e call it the contentious or ambitiousMM ould the term be suitableK Extremely suitable. 8n the other hand! e#ery one sees that the principle of kno ledge is holly directed to the truth! and cares less than either of the others for gain or fame. $ar less.

T<o#er of isdom!. Tlo#er of kno ledge!. are titles hich e may fitly apply to that part of the soulK (ertainly. 8ne principle pre#ails in the souls of one class of men! another in others! as may happenK Les. Then e may begin by assuming that there are three classes of menMM lo#ers of isdom! lo#ers of honour! lo#ers of gainK Exactly. =nd there are three kinds of pleasure! hich are their se#eral objectsK %ery true. 9o ! if you examine the three classes of men! and ask of them in turn hich of their li#es is pleasantest! each ill be found praising his o n and depreciating that of othersA the moneyMmaker ill contrast the #anity of honour or of learning if they bring no money ith the solid ad#antages of gold and sil#erK True! he said. =nd the lo#er of honourMM hat ill be his opinionK Will he not think that the pleasure of riches is #ulgar! hile the pleasure of learning! if it brings no distinction! is all smoke and nonsense to himK %ery true. =nd are e to suppose! - said! that the philosopher sets any #alue on other pleasures in comparison ith the pleasure of kno ing the truth! and in that pursuit abiding! e#er learning! not so far indeed from the hea#en of pleasureK "oes he not call the other pleasures necessary! under the idea that if there ere no necessity for them! he ould rather not ha#e themK

There can be no doubt of that! he replied. )ince! then! the pleasures of each class and the life of each are in dispute! and the Nuestion is not hich life is more or less honourable! or better or orse! but hich is the more pleasant or painlessMM ho shall e kno ho speaks trulyK - cannot myself tell! he said. Well! but hat ought to be the criterionK -s any better than experience and isdom and reasonK There cannot be a better! he said. Then! - said! reflect. 8f the three indi#iduals! hich has the greatest experience of all the pleasures hich e enumeratedK 'as the lo#er of gain! in learning the nature of essential truth! greater experience of the pleasure of kno ledge than the philosopher has of the pleasure of gainK The philosopher! he replied! has greatly the ad#antageO for he has of necessity al ays kno n the taste of the other pleasures from his childhood up ardsA but the lo#er of gain in all his experience has not of necessity tastedMMor! - should rather say! e#en had he desired! could hardly ha#e tastedMMthe s eetness of learning and kno ing truth. Then the lo#er of isdom has a great ad#antage o#er the lo#er of gain! for he has a double experienceK Les! #ery great. =gain! has he greater experience of the pleasures of honour! or the lo#er of honour of the pleasures of isdomK 9ay! he said! all three are honoured in proportion as they attain their objectO for the rich man and the bra#e man and the ise man alike ha#e their cro d of admirers! and as they all recei#e honour they all ha#e experience of the pleasures of honourO but the delight hich is to be found in the kno ledge of true being is kno n to the philosopher only.

'is experience! then! ill enable him to judge better than any oneK $ar better. =nd he is the only one ho has isdom as ell as experienceK (ertainly. $urther! the #ery faculty hich is the instrument of judgment is not possessed by the co#etous or ambitious man! but only by the philosopherK What facultyK Reason! ith hom! as e ere saying! the decision ought to rest. Les. =nd reasoning is peculiarly his instrumentK (ertainly. -f ealth and gain ere the criterion! then the praise or blame of the lo#er of gain ould surely be the most trust orthyK =ssuredly. 8r if honour or #ictory or courage! in that case the judgement of the ambitious or pugnacious ould be the truestK (learly. &ut since experience and isdom and reason are the judgesMM The only inference possible! he replied! is that pleasures hich are appro#ed by the lo#er of isdom and reason are the truest. =nd so e arri#e at the result! that the pleasure of the intelligent part of the soul is the pleasantest of the three! and that he of us in hom this is the ruling principle has the pleasantest life.

:nNuestionably! he said! the ise man speaks ith authority hen he appro#es of his o n life. =nd hat does the judge affirm to be the life hich is next! and the pleasure hich is nextK (learly that of the soldier and lo#er of honourO ho is nearer to himself than the moneyMmaker. <ast comes the lo#er of gainK %ery true! he said. T ice in succession! then! has the just man o#erthro n the unjust in this conflictO and no comes the third trial! hich is dedicated to 8lympian Ueus the sa#iourA a sage hispers in my ear that no pleasure except that of the ise is Nuite true and pureMM all others are a shado onlyO and surely this ill pro#e the greatest and most decisi#e of fallsK Les! the greatestO but ill you explain yourselfK - ill ork out the subject and you shall ans er my Nuestions. Proceed. )ay! then! is not pleasure opposed to painK True. =nd there is a neutral state hich is neither pleasure nor painK There is. = state hich is intermediate! and a sort of repose of the soul about eitherMMthat is hat you meanK Les.

Lou remember hat people say hen they are sickK What do they sayK That after all nothing is pleasanter than health. &ut then they ne#er kne this to be the greatest of pleasures until they ere ill. Les! - kno ! he said. =nd hen persons are suffering from acute pain! you must. ha#e heard them say that there is nothing pleasanter than to get rid of their painK - ha#e. =nd there are many other cases of suffering in hich the mere rest and cessation of pain! and not any positi#e enjoyment! is extolled by them as the greatest pleasureK Les! he saidO at the time they are pleased and ell content to be at rest. =gain! hen pleasure ceases! that sort of rest or cessation ill be painfulK "oubtless! he said. Then the intermediate state of rest ill be pleasure and ill also be painK )o it ould seem. &ut can that hich is neither become bothK - should say not. =nd both pleasure and pain are motions of the soul! are they notK Les.

&ut that hich is neither as just no sho n to be rest and not motion! and in a mean bet een themK Les. 'o ! then! can e be right in supposing that the absence of pain is pleasure! or that the absence of pleasure is painK -mpossible. This then is an appearance only and not a realityO that is tc say! the rest is pleasure at the moment and in comparison of hat is painful! and painful in comparison of hat is pleasantO but all these representations! hen tried by the test of true pleasure! are not real but a sort of impositionK That is the inference. <ook at the other class of pleasures hich ha#e no antecedent pains and you ill no longer suppose! as you perhaps may at present! that pleasure is only the cessation of pain! or pain of pleasure. What are they! he said! and here shall - find themK There are many of themA take as an example the pleasures! of smell! hich are #ery great and ha#e no antecedent painsO they come in a moment! and hen they depart lea#e no pain behind them. ;ost true! he said. <et us not! then! be induced to belie#e that pure pleasure is the cessation of pain! or pain of pleasure. 9o. )till! the more numerous and #iolent pleasures hich reach the soul through the body are generally of this sortMMthey are reliefs of pain. That is true.

=nd the anticipations of future pleasures and pains are of a like natureK Les. )hall - gi#e you an illustration of themK <et me hear. Lou ould allo ! - said! that there is in nature an upper and lo er and middle regionK - should. =nd if a person ere to go from the lo er to the middle region! ould he not imagine that he is going upO and he ho is standing in the middle and sees hence he has come! ould imagine that he is already in the upper region! if he has ne#er seen the true upper orldK To be sure! he saidO ho can he think other iseK &ut if he ere taken back again he ould imagine! and truly imagine! that he as descendingK 9o doubt. =ll that ould arise out of his ignorance of the true upper and middle and lo er regionsK Les. Then can you onder that persons ho are inexperienced in the truth! as they ha#e rong ideas about many other things! should also ha#e rong ideas about pleasure and pain and the intermediate stateO so that hen they are only being dra n to ards the painful they feel pain and think the pain hich they experience to be real! and in like manner! hen dra n a ay from pain to the neutral or intermediate state! they firmly belie#e that they ha#e reached the goal of satiety and pleasureO they! not kno ing pleasure!

err in contrasting pain ith the absence of pain. hich is like contrasting black ith grey instead of hiteMMcan you onder! - say! at thisK 9o! indeedO - should be much more disposed to onder at the opposite. <ook at the matter thusAMM'unger! thirst! and the like! are inanitions of the bodily stateK Les. =nd ignorance and folly are inanitions of the soulK True. =nd food and isdom are the corresponding satisfactions of eitherK (ertainly. =nd is the satisfaction deri#ed from that hich has less or from that hich has more existence the truerK (learly! from that hich has more. What classes of things ha#e a greater share of pure existence in your judgmentMMthose of hich food and drink and condiments and all kinds of sustenance are examples! or the class hich contains true opinion and kno ledge and mind and all the different kinds of #irtueK Put the Nuestion in this ayAMMWhich has a more pure beingMM that hich is concerned ith the in#ariable! the immortal! and the true! and is of such a nature! and is found in such naturesO or that hich is concerned ith and found in the #ariable and mortal! and is itself #ariable and mortalK $ar purer! he replied! is the being of that hich is concerned ith the in#ariable. =nd does the essence of the in#ariable partake of kno ledge in the same degree as of essenceK

Les! of kno ledge in the same degree. =nd of truth in the same degreeK Les. =nd! con#ersely! that hich has less of truth ill also ha#e less of essenceK 9ecessarily. Then! in general! those kinds of things hich are in the ser#ice of the body ha#e less of truth and essence than those hich are in the ser#ice of the soulK $ar less. =nd has not the body itself less of truth and essence than the soulK Les. What is filled ith more real existence! and actually has a more real existence! is more really filled than that hich is filled ith less real existence and is less realK 8f course. =nd if there be a pleasure in being filled ith that hich is according to nature! that hich is more really filled ith more real being ill more really and truly enjoy true pleasureO hereas that hich participates in less real being ill be less truly and surely satisfied! and ill participate in an illusory and less real pleasureK :nNuestionably. Those then ho kno not isdom and #irtue! and are al ays busy ith gluttony and sensuality! go do n and up again as far as the meanO and in this region they mo#e at random throughout life! but they ne#er pass into the true upper orldO thither they neither look!

nor do they e#er find their ay! neither are they truly filled ith true being! nor do they taste of pure and abiding pleasure. <ike cattle! ith their eyes al ays looking do n and their heads stooping to the earth! that is! to the diningMtable! they fatten and feed and breed! and! in their excessi#e lo#e of these delights! they kick and butt at one another ith horns and hoofs hich are made of ironO and they kill one another by reason of their insatiable lust. $or they fill themsel#es ith that hich is not substantial! and the part of themsel#es hich they fill is also unsubstantial and incontinent. %erily! )ocrates! said Glaucon! you describe the life of the many like an oracle. Their pleasures are mixed ith painsMMho can they be other iseK $or they are mere shado s and pictures of the true! and are coloured by contrast! hich exaggerates both light and shade! and so they implant in the minds of fools insane desires of themsel#esO and they are fought about as )tesichorus says that the Greeks fought about the shado of 'elen at Troy in ignorance of the truth. )omething of that sort must ine#itably happen. =nd must not the like happen ith the spirited or passionate element of the soulK Will not the passionate man ho carries his passion into action! be in the like case! hether he is en#ious and ambitious! or #iolent and contentious! or angry and discontented! if he be seeking to attain honour and #ictory and the satisfaction of his anger ithout reason or senseK Les! he said! the same ill happen ith the spirited element also. Then may e not confidently assert that the lo#ers of money and honour! hen they seek their pleasures under the guidance and in the company of reason and kno ledge! and pursue after and in the pleasures hich isdom sho s them! ill also ha#e the truest pleasures in the highest degree hich is attainable to them! inasmuch as they follo truthO and they ill ha#e the pleasures hich are natural to them! if that hich is best for each one is also most natural to himK

Les! certainlyO the best is the most natural. =nd hen the hole soul follo s the philosophical principle! and there is no di#ision! the se#eral parts are just! and do each of them their o n business! and enjoy se#erally the best and truest pleasures of hich they are capableK Exactly. &ut hen either of the t o other principles pre#ails! it fails in attaining its o n pleasure! and compels the rest to pursue after a pleasure hich is a shado only and hich is not their o nK True. =nd the greater the inter#al hich separates them from philosophy and reason! the more strange and illusi#e ill be the pleasureK Les. =nd is not that farthest from reason hich is at the greatest distance from la and orderK (learly. =nd the lustful and tyrannical desires are! as e sa ! at the greatest distanceK Les. =nd the royal and orderly desires are nearestK Les. Then the tyrant ill li#e at the greatest distance from true or natural pleasure! and the king at the leastK (ertainly. &ut if so! the tyrant ill li#e most unpleasantly! and the king most pleasantlyK

-ne#itably. Would you kno the measure of the inter#al hich separates themK Will you tell meK There appear to be three pleasures! one genuine and t o spuriousA no the transgression of the tyrant reaches a point beyond the spuriousO he has run a ay from the region of la and reason! and taken up his abode ith certain sla#e pleasures hich are his satellites! and the measure of his inferiority can only be expressed in a figure. 'o do you meanK - assume! - said! that the tyrant is in the third place from the oligarchO the democrat as in the middleK Les. =nd if there is truth in hat has preceded! he ill be edded to an image of pleasure hich is thrice remo#ed as to truth from the pleasure of the oligarchK 'e ill. =nd the oligarch is third from the royalO since e count as one royal and aristocraticalK Les! he is third. Then the tyrant is remo#ed from true pleasure by the space of a number hich is three times threeK ;anifestly. The shado then of tyrannical pleasure determined by the number of length ill be a plane figure. (ertainly.

=nd if you raise the po er and make the plane a solid! there is no difficulty in seeing ho #ast is the inter#al by hich the tyrant is parted from the king. LesO the arithmetician ill easily do the sum. 8r if some person begins at the other end and measures the inter#al by hich the king is parted from the tyrant in truth of pleasure! he ill find him! hen the multiplication is complete! li#ing ,@+ times more pleasantly! and the tyrant more painfully by this same inter#al. What a onderful calculationD =nd ho enormous is the distance hich separates the just from the unjust in regard to pleasure and painD Let a true calculation! - said! and a number hich nearly concerns human life! if human beings are concerned ith days and nights and months and years. Les! he said! human life is certainly concerned ith them. Then if the good and just man be thus superior in pleasure to the e#il and unjust! his superiority ill be infinitely greater in propriety of life and in beauty and #irtueK -mmeasurably greater. Well! - said! and no ha#ing arri#ed at this stage of the argument! e may re#ert to the ords hich brought us hitherA Was not some one saying that injustice as a gain to the perfectly unjust ho as reputed to be justK Les! that as said. 9o then! ha#ing determined the po er and Nuality of justice and injustice! let us ha#e a little con#ersation ith him. What shall e say to himK

<et us make an image of the soul! that he may ha#e his o n ords presented before his eyes. 8f hat sortK =n ideal image of the soul! like the composite creations of ancient mythology! such as the (himera or )cylla or (erberus! and there are many others in hich t o or more different natures are said to gro into one. There are said of ha#e been such unions. Then do you no model the form of a multitudinous! manyMheaded monster! ha#ing a ring of heads of all manner of beasts! tame and ild! hich he is able to generate and metamorphose at ill. Lou suppose mar#ellous po ers in the artistO but! as language is more pliable than ax or any similar substance! let there be such a model as you propose. )uppose no that you make a second form as of a lion! and a third of a man! the second smaller than the first! and the third smaller than the second. That! he said! is an easier taskO and - ha#e made them as you say. =nd no join them! and let the three gro into one. That has been accomplished. 9ext fashion the outside of them into a single image! as of a man! so that he ho is not able to look ithin! and sees only the outer hull! may belie#e the beast to be a single human creature. - ha#e done so! he said. =nd no ! to him ho maintains that it is profitable for the human creature to be unjust! and unprofitable to be just! let us reply that! if he be right! it is profitable for this creature to feast the multitudinous monster and strengthen the lion and the lionMlike Nualities!

but to star#e and eaken the man! ho is conseNuently liable to be dragged about at the mercy of either of the other t oO and he is not to attempt to familiari7e or harmoni7e them ith one anotherMM he ought rather to suffer them to fight and bite and de#our one another. (ertainly! he saidO that is hat the appro#er of injustice says. To him the supporter of justice makes ans er that he should e#er so speak and act as to gi#e the man ithin him in some ay or other the most complete mastery o#er the entire human creature. 'e should atch o#er the manyMheaded monster like a good husbandman! fostering and culti#ating the gentle Nualities! and pre#enting the ild ones from gro ingO he should be making the lionMheart his ally! and in common care of them all should be uniting the se#eral parts ith one another and ith himself. Les! he said! that is Nuite hat the maintainer of justice say. =nd so from e#ery point of #ie ! hether of pleasure! honour! or ad#antage! the appro#er of justice is right and speaks the truth! and the disappro#er is rong and false and ignorant. Les! from e#ery point of #ie . (ome! no ! and let us gently reason ith the unjust! ho is not intentionally in error. T) eet )ir!. e ill say to him! hat think you of things esteemed noble and ignobleK -s not the noble that hich subjects the beast to the man! or rather to the god in manO and the ignoble that hich subjects the man to the beastK. 'e can hardly a#oid saying yesMMcan he no K 9ot if he has any regard for my opinion. &ut! if he agree so far! e may ask him to ans er another NuestionA TThen ho ould a man profit if he recei#ed gold and sil#er on the condition that he as to ensla#e the noblest part of him to the orstK Who can imagine that a man ho sold his son or daughter into sla#ery for money! especially if he sold them into the hands of fierce and e#il men! ould be the gainer!

ho e#er large might be the sum hich he recei#edK =nd ill any one say that he is not a miserable caitiff ho remorselessly sells his o n di#ine being to that hich is most godless and detestableK Eriphyle took the necklace as the price of her husband.s life! but he is taking a bribe in order to compass a orse ruin.. Les! said Glaucon! far orseMM- ill ans er for him. 'as not the intemperate been censured of old! because in him the huge multiform monster is allo ed to be too much at largeK (learly. =nd men are blamed for pride and bad temper hen the lion and serpent element in them disproportionately gro s and gains strengthK Les. =nd luxury and softness are blamed! because they relax and eaken this same creature! and make a co ard of himK %ery true. =nd is not a man reproached for flattery and meanness ho subordinates the spirited animal to the unruly monster! and! for the sake of money! of hich he can ne#er ha#e enough! habituates him in the days of his youth to be trampled in the mire! and from being a lion to become a monkeyK True! he said. =nd hy are mean employments and manual arts a reproach 8nly because they imply a natural eakness of the higher principleO the indi#idual is unable to control the creatures ithin him! but has to court them! and his great study is ho to flatter them. )uch appears to be the reason. =nd therefore! being desirous of placing him under a rule like that of the best! e say that he ought to be the ser#ant of the best!

in hom the "i#ine rulesO not! as Thrasymachus supposed! to the injury of the ser#ant! but because e#ery one had better be ruled by di#ine isdom d elling ithin himO or! if this be impossible! then by an external authority! in order that e may be all! as far as possible! under the same go#ernment! friends and eNuals. True! he said. =nd this is clearly seen to be the intention of the la ! hich is the ally of the hole cityO and is seen also in the authority hich e exercise o#er children! and the refusal to let them be free until e ha#e established in them a principle analogous to the constitution of a state! and by culti#ation of this higher element ha#e set up in their hearts a guardian and ruler like our o n! and hen this is done they may go their ays. Les! he said! the purpose of the la is manifest. $rom hat point of #ie ! then! and on hat ground can e say that a man is profited by injustice or intemperance or other baseness! hich ill make him a orse man! e#en though he acNuire money or po er by his ickednessK $rom no point of #ie at all. What shall he profit! if his injustice be undetected and unpunishedK 'e ho is undetected only gets orse! hereas he ho is detected and punished has the brutal part of his nature silenced and humani7edO the gentler element in him is liberated! and his hole soul is perfected and ennobled by the acNuirement of justice and temperance and isdom! more than the body e#er is by recei#ing gifts of beauty! strength and health! in proportion as the soul is more honourable than the body. (ertainly! he said. To this nobler purpose the man of understanding ill de#ote the energies of his life. =nd in the first place! he ill honour studies hich impress these Nualities on his soul and disregard othersK

(learly! he said. -n the next place! he ill regulate his bodily habit and training! and so far ill he be from yielding to brutal and irrational pleasures! that he ill regard e#en health as Nuite a secondary matterO his first object ill be not that he may be fair or strong or ell! unless he is likely thereby to gain temperance! but he ill al ays desire so to attemper the body as to preser#e the harmony of the soulK (ertainly he ill! if he has true music in him. =nd in the acNuisition of ealth there is a principle of order and harmony hich he ill also obser#eO he ill not allo himself to be da77led by the foolish applause of the orld! and heap up riches to his o n infinite harmK (ertainly not! he said. 'e ill look at the city hich is ithin him! and take heed that no disorder occur in it! such as might arise either from superfluity or from antO and upon this principle he ill regulate his property and gain or spend according to his means. %ery true. =nd! for the same reason! he ill gladly accept and enjoy such honours as he deems likely to make him a better manO but those! hether pri#ate or public! hich are likely to disorder his life! he ill a#oidK Then! if that is his moti#e! he ill not be a statesman. &y the dog of Egypt! he illD in the city hich is his o n he certainly ill! though in the land of his birth perhaps not! unless he ha#e a di#ine call. - understandO you mean that he ill be a ruler in the city of hich e are the founders! and hich exists in idea onlyO for - do not belie#e that there is such an one any here on earthK

-n hea#en! - replied! there is laid up a pattern of it! methinks! hich he ho desires may behold! and beholding! may set his o n house in order. &ut hether such an one exists! or e#er ill exist in fact! is no matterO for he ill li#e after the manner of that city! ha#ing nothing to do ith any other. - think so! he said.

&88Q J )8(R=TE) M G<=:(89 8$ T'E many excellences hich - percei#e in the order of our )tate! there is none hich upon reflection pleases me better than the rule about poetry. To hat do you referK To the rejection of imitati#e poetry! hich certainly ought not to be recei#edO as - see far more clearly no that the parts of the soul ha#e been distinguished. What do you meanK )peaking in confidence! for - should not like to ha#e my ords repeated to the tragedians and the rest of the imitati#e tribeMM but - do not mind saying to you! that all poetical imitations are ruinous to the understanding of the hearers! and that the kno ledge of their true nature is the only antidote to them. Explain the purport of your remark. Well! - ill tell you! although - ha#e al ays from my earliest youth had an a e and lo#e of 'omer! hich e#en no makes the ords falter on my lips! for he is the great captain and teacher of the hole

of that charming tragic companyO but a man is not to be re#erenced more than the truth! and therefore - ill speak out. %ery good! he said. <isten to me then! or rather! ans er me. Put your Nuestion. (an you tell me hat imitation isK for - really do not kno . = likely thing! then! that - should kno . Why notK for the duller eye may often see a thing sooner than the keener. %ery true! he saidO but in your presence! e#en if - had any faint notion! - could not muster courage to utter it. Will you enNuire yourselfK Well then! shall e begin the enNuiry in our usual mannerA Whene#er a number of indi#iduals ha#e a common name! e assume them to ha#e also a corresponding idea or form. "o you understand meK - do. <et us take any common instanceO there are beds and tables in the orldMM plenty of them! are there notK Les. &ut there are only t o ideas or forms of themMMone the idea of a bed! the other of a table. True. =nd the maker of either of them makes a bed or he makes a table for our use! in accordance ith the ideaMMthat is our ay of speaking in this and similar instancesMMbut no artificer makes the ideas themsel#esA ho could heK

-mpossible. =nd there is another artist!MM- should like to kno say of him. Who is heK 8ne ho is the maker of all the orks of all other orkmen. What an extraordinary manD Wait a little! and there ill be more reason for your saying so. $or this is he ho is able to make not only #essels of e#ery kind! but plants and animals! himself and all other thingsMMthe earth and hea#en! and the things hich are in hea#en or under the earthO he makes the gods also. 'e must be a i7ard and no mistake. 8hD you are incredulous! are youK "o you mean that there is no such maker or creator! or that in one sense there might be a maker of all these things but in another notK "o you see that there is a ay in hich you could make them all yourselfK What ayK =n easy ay enoughO or rather! there are many ays in hich the feat might be Nuickly and easily accomplished! none Nuicker than that of turning a mirror round and roundMMyou ould soon enough make the sun and the hea#ens! and the earth and yourself! and other animals and plants! and all the! other things of hich e ere just no speaking! in the mirror. Les! he saidO but they ould be appearances only. %ery good! - said! you are coming to the point no . =nd the painter too is! as - concei#e! just such anotherMMa creator of appearances! is he notK 8f course. hat you ould

&ut then - suppose you ill say that hat he creates is untrue. =nd yet there is a sense in hich the painter also creates a bedK Les! he said! but not a real bed. =nd hat of the maker of the bedK Were you not saying that he too makes! not the idea hich! according to our #ie ! is the essence of the bed! but only a particular bedK Les! - did. Then if he does not make that hich exists he cannot make true existence! but only some semblance of existenceO and if any one ere to say that the ork of the maker of the bed! or of any other orkman! has real existence! he could hardly be supposed to be speaking the truth. =t any rate! he replied! philosophers ould say that he as not speaking the truth. 9o onder! then! that his ork too is an indistinct expression of truth. 9o onder. )uppose no that by the light of the examples just offered e enNuire ho this imitator isK -f you please. Well then! here are three bedsA one existing in nature! hich is made by God! as - think that e may sayMMfor no one else can be the makerK 9o. There is another hich is the ork of the carpenterK Les.

=nd the ork of the painter is a thirdK Les. &eds! then! are of three kinds! and there are three artists ho superintend themA God! the maker of the bed! and the painterK Les! there are three of them. God! hether from choice or from necessity! made one bed in nature and one onlyO t o or more such ideal beds neither e#er ha#e been nor e#er ill be made by God. Why is thatK &ecause e#en if 'e had made but t o! a third ould still appear behind them hich both of them ould ha#e for their idea! and that ould be the ideal bed and the t o others. %ery true! he said. God kne this! and 'e desired to be the real maker of a real bed! not a particular maker of a particular bed! and therefore 'e created a bed hich is essentially and by nature one only. )o e belie#e. )hall e! then! speak of 'im as the natural author or maker of the bedK Les! he repliedO inasmuch as by the natural process of creation 'e is the author of this and of all other things. =nd hat shall e say of the carpenterMMis not he also the maker of the bedK Les. &ut ould you call the painter a creator and makerK (ertainly not.

Let if he is not the maker! hat is he in relation to the bedK - think! he said! that e may fairly designate him as the imitator of that hich the others make. Good! - saidO then you call him ho is third in the descent from nature an imitatorK (ertainly! he said. =nd the tragic poet is an imitator! and therefore! like all other imitators! he is thrice remo#ed from the king and from the truthK That appears to be so. Then about the imitator e are agreed. =nd hat about the painterKMM - ould like to kno hether he may be thought to imitate that hich originally exists in nature! or only the creations of artistsK The latter. =s they are or as they appearK Lou ha#e still to determine this. What do you meanK - mean! that you may look at a bed from different points of #ie ! obliNuely or directly or from any other point of #ie ! and the bed ill appear different! but there is no difference in reality. =nd the same of all things. Les! he said! the difference is only apparent. 9o let me ask you another NuestionA Which is the art of painting designed to beMMan imitation of things as they are! or as they appearMM of appearance or of realityK 8f appearance. Then the imitator! - said! is a long ay off the truth! and can

do all things because he lightly touches on a small part of them! and that part an image. $or exampleA = painter ill paint a cobbler! carpenter! or any other artist! though he kno s nothing of their artsO and! if he is a good artist! he may decei#e children or simple persons! hen he sho s them his picture of a carpenter from a distance! and they ill fancy that they are looking at a real carpenter. (ertainly. =nd hene#er any one informs us that he has found a man kno s all the arts! and all things else that anybody kno s! and e#ery single thing ith a higher degree of accuracy than any other manMM hoe#er tells us this! - think that e can only imagine to be a simple creature ho is likely to ha#e been decei#ed by some i7ard or actor hom he met! and hom he thought allMkno ing! because he himself as unable to analyse the nature of kno ledge and ignorance and imitation. ;ost true. =nd so! hen e hear persons saying that the tragedians! and 'omer! ho is at their head! kno all the arts and all things human! #irtue as ell as #ice! and di#ine things too! for that the good poet cannot compose ell unless he kno s his subject! and that he ho has not this kno ledge can ne#er be a poet! e ought to consider hether here also there may not be a similar illusion. Perhaps they may ha#e come across imitators and been decei#ed by themO they may not ha#e remembered hen they sa their orks that these ere but imitations thrice remo#ed from the truth! and could easily be made ithout any kno ledge of the truth! because they are appearances only and not realitiesK 8r! after all! they may be in the right! and poets do really kno the things about hich they seem to the many to speak so ellK The Nuestion! he said! should by all means be considered. 9o do you suppose that if a person ere able to make the original as ell as the image! he ould seriously de#ote himself to the imageMmaking branchK Would he allo imitation to be the ruling principle of his life! as if he had nothing higher in himK

- should say not. The real artist! ho kne hat he as imitating! ould be interested in realities and not in imitationsO and ould desire to lea#e as memorials of himself orks many and fairO and! instead of being the author of encomiums! he ould prefer to be the theme of them. Les! he said! that ould be to him a source of much greater honour and profit. Then! - said! e must put a Nuestion to 'omerO not about medicine! or any of the arts to hich his poems only incidentally referA e are not going to ask him! or any other poet! hether he has cured patients like =sclepius! or left behind him a school of medicine such as the =sclepiads ere! or hether he only talks about medicine and other arts at second handO but e ha#e a right to kno respecting military tactics! politics! education! hich are the chiefest and noblest subjects of his poems! and e may fairly ask him about them. T$riend 'omer!. then e say to him! Tif you are only in the second remo#e from truth in hat you say of #irtue! and not in the thirdMM not an image maker or imitatorMMand if you are able to discern hat pursuits make men better or orse in pri#ate or public life! tell us hat )tate as e#er better go#erned by your helpK The good order of <acedaemon is due to <ycurgus! and many other cities great and small ha#e been similarly benefited by othersO but ho says that you ha#e been a good legislator to them and ha#e done them any goodK -taly and )icily boast of (harondas! and there is )olon ho is reno ned among usO but hat city has anything to say about youK. -s there any city hich he might nameK - think not! said GlauconO not e#en the 'omerids themsel#es pretend that he as a legislator. Well! but is there any ar on record hich as carried on successfully by him! or aided by his counsels! hen he as ali#eK There is not.

8r is there any in#ention of his! applicable to the arts or to human life! such as Thales the ;ilesian or =nacharsis the )cythian! and other ingenious men ha#e concei#ed! hich is attributed to himK There is absolutely nothing of the kind. &ut! if 'omer ne#er did any public ser#ice! as he pri#ately a guide or teacher of anyK 'ad he in his lifetime friends ho lo#ed to associate ith him! and ho handed do n to posterity an 'omeric ay of life! such as as established by Pythagoras ho as so greatly belo#ed for his isdom! and hose follo ers are to this day Nuite celebrated for the order hich as named after himK 9othing of the kind is recorded of him. $or surely! )ocrates! (reophylus! the companion of 'omer! that child of flesh! hose name al ays makes us laugh! might be more justly ridiculed for his stupidity! if! as is said! 'omer as greatly neglected by him and others in his o n day hen he as ali#eK Les! - replied! that is the tradition. &ut can you imagine! Glaucon! that if 'omer had really been able to educate and impro#e mankindMM if he had possessed kno ledge and not been a mere imitatorMMcan you imagine! - say! that he ould not ha#e had many follo ers! and been honoured and lo#ed by themK Protagoras of =bdera! and Prodicus of (eos! and a host of others! ha#e only to hisper to their contemporariesA TLou ill ne#er be able to manage either your o n house or your o n )tate until you appoint us to be your ministers of education.MM and this ingenious de#ice of theirs has such an effect in making them lo#e them that their companions all but carry them about on their shoulders. =nd is it concei#able that the contemporaries of 'omer! or again of 'esiod! ould ha#e allo ed either of them to go about as rhapsodists! if they had really been able to make mankind #irtuousK Would they not ha#e been as un illing to part ith them as ith gold! and ha#e compelled them to stay at home ith themK 8r! if the master ould not stay! then the disciples ould ha#e follo ed him about e#ery here! until they had got education enoughK Les! )ocrates! that! - think! is Nuite true.

Then must e not infer that all these poetical indi#iduals! beginning ith 'omer! are only imitatorsO they copy images of #irtue and the like! but the truth they ne#er reachK The poet is like a painter ho! as e ha#e already obser#ed! ill make a likeness of a cobbler though he understands nothing of cobblingO and his picture is good enough for those ho kno no more than he does! and judge only by colours and figures. Puite so. -n like manner the poet ith his ords and phrases may be said to lay on the colours of the se#eral arts! himself understanding their nature only enough to imitate themO and other people! ho are as ignorant as he is! and judge only from his ords! imagine that if he speaks of cobbling! or of military tactics! or of anything else! in metre and harmony and rhythm! he speaks #ery ellMM such is the s eet influence hich melody and rhythm by nature ha#e. =nd - think that you must ha#e obser#ed again and again hat a poor appearance the tales of poets make hen stripped of the colours hich music puts upon them! and recited in simple prose. Les! he said. They are like faces hich ere ne#er really beautiful! but only bloomingO and no the bloom of youth has passed a ay from themK Exactly. 'ere is another pointA The imitator or maker of the image kno s nothing of true existenceO he kno s appearances only. =m - not rightK Les. Then let us ha#e a clear understanding! and not be satisfied ith half an explanation. Proceed.

8f the painter e say that he ill paint reins! and he ill paint a bitK Les. =nd the orker in leather and brass ill make themK (ertainly. &ut does the painter kno the right form of the bit and reinsK 9ay! hardly e#en the orkers in brass and leather ho make themO only the horseman ho kno s ho to use themMMhe kno s their right form. ;ost true. =nd may e not say the same of all thingsK WhatK That there are three arts hich are concerned ith all thingsA one hich uses! another hich makes! a third hich imitates themK Les. =nd the excellence or beauty or truth of e#ery structure! animate or inanimate! and of e#ery action of man! is relati#e to the use for hich nature or the artist has intended them. True. Then the user of them must ha#e the greatest experience of them! and he must indicate to the maker the good or bad Nualities hich de#elop themsel#es in useO for example! the fluteMplayer ill tell the fluteMmaker hich of his flutes is satisfactory to the performerO he ill tell him ho he ought to make them! and the other ill attend to his instructionsK 8f course.

The one kno s and therefore speaks ith authority about the goodness and badness of flutes! hile the other! confiding in him! ill do hat he is told by himK True. The instrument is the same! but about the excellence or badness of it the maker ill only attain to a correct beliefO and this he ill gain from him ho kno s! by talking to him and being compelled to hear hat he has to say! hereas the user ill ha#e kno ledgeK True. &ut ill the imitator ha#e eitherK Will he kno from use hether or no his dra ing is correct or beautifulK 8r ill he ha#e right opinion from being compelled to associate ith another ho kno s and gi#es him instructions about hat he should dra K 9either. Then he ill no more ha#e true opinion than he ill ha#e kno ledge about the goodness or badness of his imitationsK - suppose not. The imitati#e artist ill be in a brilliant state of intelligence about his o n creationsK 9ay! #ery much the re#erse. =nd still he ill go on imitating ithout kno ing hat makes a thing good or bad! and may be expected therefore to imitate only that hich appears to be good to the ignorant multitudeK /ust so. Thus far then e are pretty ell agreed that the imitator has no kno ledge orth mentioning of hat he imitates. -mitation is only a kind of play or sport! and the tragic poets! hether they rite in iambic or in 'eroic #erse! are imitators in the highest degreeK

%ery true. =nd no tell me! - conjure you! has not imitation been sho n by us to be concerned ith that hich is thrice remo#ed from the truthK (ertainly. =nd hat is the faculty in man to hich imitation is addressedK What do you meanK - ill explainA The body hich is large hen seen near! appears small hen seen at a distanceK True. =nd the same object appears straight hen looked at out of the ater! and crooked hen in the aterO and the conca#e becomes con#ex! o ing to the illusion about colours to hich the sight is liable. Thus e#ery sort of confusion is re#ealed ithin usO and this is that eakness of the human mind on hich the art of conjuring and of decei#ing by light and shado and other ingenious de#ices imposes! ha#ing an effect upon us like magic. True. =nd the arts of measuring and numbering and eighing come to the rescue of the human understandingMthere is the beauty of themMM and the apparent greater or less! or more or hea#ier! no longer ha#e the mastery o#er us! but gi#e ay before calculation and measure and eightK ;ost true. =nd this! surely! must be the ork of the calculating and rational principle in the soul To be sure.

=nd hen this principle measures and certifies that some things are eNual! or that some are greater or less than others! there occurs an apparent contradictionK True. &ut ere e not saying that such a contradiction is the same faculty cannot ha#e contrary opinions at the same time about the same thingK %ery true. Then that part of the soul hich has an opinion contrary to measure is not the same ith that hich has an opinion in accordance ith measureK True. =nd the better part of the soul is likely to be that hich trusts to measure and calculationK (ertainly. =nd that hich is opposed to them is one of the inferior principles of the soulK 9o doubt. This as the conclusion at hich - as seeking to arri#e hen said that painting or dra ing! and imitation in general! hen doing their o n proper ork! are far remo#ed from truth! and the companions and friends and associates of a principle ithin us hich is eNually remo#ed from reason! and that they ha#e no true or healthy aim. Exactly. The imitati#e art is an inferior ho marries an inferior! and has inferior offspring. %ery true.

=nd is this confined to the sight only! or does it extend to the hearing also! relating in fact to hat e term poetryK Probably the same ould be true of poetry. "o not rely! - said! on a probability deri#ed from the analogy of paintingO but let us examine further and see hether the faculty ith hich poetical imitation is concerned is good or bad. &y all means. We may state the Nuestion thusAMM-mitation imitates the actions of men! hether #oluntary or in#oluntary! on hich! as they imagine! a good or bad result has ensued! and they rejoice or sorro accordingly. -s there anything moreK 9o! there is nothing else. &ut in all this #ariety of circumstances is the man at unity ith himselfMMor rather! as in the instance of sight there as confusion and opposition in his opinions about the same things! so here also is there not strife and inconsistency in his lifeK Though - need hardly raise the Nuestion again! for - remember that all this has been already admittedO and the soul has been ackno ledged by us to be full of these and ten thousand similar oppositions occurring at the same momentK =nd e ere right! he said. Les! - said! thus far e ere rightO but there as an omission hich must no be supplied. What as the omissionK Were e not saying that a good man! ho has the misfortune to lose his son or anything else hich is most dear to him! ill bear the loss ith more eNuanimity than anotherK Les.

&ut ill he ha#e no sorro ! or shall e say that although he cannot help sorro ing! he ill moderate his sorro K The latter! he said! is the truer statement. Tell meA his sorro ill he be more likely to struggle and hold out against hen he is seen by his eNuals! or hen he is aloneK

-t ill make a great difference hether he is seen or not. When he is by himself he ill not mind saying or doing many things hich he ould be ashamed of any one hearing or seeing him doK True. There is a principle of la and reason in him hich bids him resist! as ell as a feeling of his misfortune hich is forcing him to indulge his sorro K True. &ut hen a man is dra n in t o opposite directions! to and from the same object! this! as e affirm! necessarily implies t o distinct principles in himK (ertainly. 8ne of them is ready to follo the guidance of the la K 'o do you meanK The la ould say that to be patient under suffering is best! and that e should not gi#e ay to impatience! as there is no kno ing hether such things are good or e#ilO and nothing is gained by impatienceO also! because no human thing is of serious importance! and grief stands in the ay of that hich at the moment is most reNuired. What is most reNuiredK he asked. That e should take counsel about hat has happened! and hen

the dice ha#e been thro n order our affairs in the ay hich reason deems bestO not! like children ho ha#e had a fall! keeping hold of the part struck and asting time in setting up a ho l! but al ays accustoming the soul forth ith to apply a remedy! raising up that hich is sickly and fallen! banishing the cry of sorro by the healing art. Les! he said! that is the true ay of meeting the attacks of fortune. Les! - saidO and the higher principle is ready to follo this suggestion of reasonK (learly. =nd the other principle! hich inclines us to recollection of our troubles and to lamentation! and can ne#er ha#e enough of them! e may call irrational! useless! and co ardlyK -ndeed! e may. =nd does not the latterMM- mean the rebellious principleMM furnish a great #ariety of materials for imitationK Whereas the ise and calm temperament! being al ays nearly eNuable! is not easy to imitate or to appreciate hen imitated! especially at a public festi#al hen a promiscuous cro d is assembled in a theatre. $or the feeling represented is one to hich they are strangers. (ertainly. Then the imitati#e poet ho aims at being popular is not by nature made! nor is his art intended! to please or to affect the principle in the soulO but he ill prefer the passionate and fitful temper! hich is easily imitatedK (learly. =nd no e may fairly take him and place him by the side of the painter! for he is like him in t o aysA first! inasmuch as his creations ha#e an inferior degree of truthMMin this! - say! he is like himO and he is also like him in being concerned ith an inferior part of the soulO and therefore e shall be right in refusing

to admit him into a ellMordered )tate! because he a akens and nourishes and strengthens the feelings and impairs the reason. =s in a city hen the e#il are permitted to ha#e authority and the good are put out of the ay! so in the soul of man! as e maintain! the imitati#e poet implants an e#il constitution! for he indulges the irrational nature hich has no discernment of greater and less! but thinks the same thing at one time great and at another smallMhe is a manufacturer of images and is #ery far remo#ed from the truth. Exactly. &ut e ha#e not yet brought for ard the hea#iest count in our accusationAMM the po er hich poetry has of harming e#en the good >and there are #ery fe ho are not harmed?! is surely an a ful thingK Les! certainly! if the effect is hat you say. 'ear and judgeA The best of us! as - concei#e! hen e listen to a passage of 'omer! or one of the tragedians! in hich he represents some pitiful hero ho is dra ling out his sorro s in a long oration! or eeping! and smiting his breastMMthe best of us! you kno ! delight in gi#ing ay to sympathy! and are in raptures at the excellence of the poet ho stirs our feelings most. Les! of course - kno . &ut hen any sorro of our o n happens to us! then you may obser#e that e pride oursel#es on the opposite NualityMM e ould fain be Nuiet and patientO this is the manly part! and the other hich delighted us in the recitation is no deemed to be the part of a oman. %ery true! he said. 9o can e be right in praising and admiring another ho is doing that hich any one of us ould abominate and be ashamed of in his o n personK 9o! he said! that is certainly not reasonable.

9ay! - said! Nuite reasonable from one point of #ie . What point of #ie K -f you consider! - said! that hen in misfortune e feel a natural hunger and desire to relie#e our sorro by eeping and lamentation! and that this feeling hich is kept under control in our o n calamities is satisfied and delighted by the poetsOMthe better nature in each of us! not ha#ing been sufficiently trained by reason or habit! allo s the sympathetic element to break loose because the sorro is another.sO and the spectator fancies that there can be no disgrace to himself in praising and pitying any one ho comes telling him hat a good man he is! and making a fuss about his troublesO he thinks that the pleasure is a gain! and hy should he be supercilious and lose this and the poem tooK $e persons e#er reflect! as - should imagine! that from the e#il of other men something of e#il is communicated to themsel#es. =nd so the feeling of sorro hich has gathered strength at the sight of the misfortunes of others is ith difficulty repressed in our o n. 'o #ery trueD =nd does not the same hold also of the ridiculousK There are jests hich you ould be ashamed to make yourself! and yet on the comic stage! or indeed in pri#ate! hen you hear them! you are greatly amused by them! and are not at all disgusted at their unseemlinessOMM the case of pity is repeatedOMMthere is a principle in human nature hich is disposed to raise a laugh! and this hich you once restrained by reason! because you ere afraid of being thought a buffoon! is no let out againO and ha#ing stimulated the risible faculty at the theatre! you are betrayed unconsciously to yourself into playing the comic poet at home. Puite true! he said. =nd the same may be said of lust and anger and all the other affections! of desire and pain and pleasure! hich are held to be inseparable from e#ery actionMMin all of them poetry feeds and aters the passions instead of drying them upO she lets them rule! although they ought

to be controlled! if mankind are e#er to increase in happiness and #irtue. - cannot deny it. Therefore! Glaucon! - said! hene#er you meet ith any of the eulogists of 'omer declaring that he has been the educator of 'ellas! and that he is profitable for education and for the ordering of human things! and that you should take him up again and again and get to kno him and regulate your hole life according to him! e may lo#e and honour those ho say these thingsMMthey are excellent people! as far as their lights extendO and e are ready to ackno ledge that 'omer is the greatest of poets and first of tragedy ritersO but e must remain firm in our con#iction that hymns to the gods and praises of famous men are the only poetry hich ought to be admitted into our )tate. $or if you go beyond this and allo the honeyed muse to enter! either in epic or lyric #erse! not la and the reason of mankind! hich by common consent ha#e e#er been deemed best! but pleasure and pain ill be the rulers in our )tate. That is most true! he said. =nd no since e ha#e re#erted to the subject of poetry! let this our defence ser#e to sho the reasonableness of our former judgment in sending a ay out of our )tate an art ha#ing the tendencies hich e ha#e describedO for reason constrained us. &ut that she may impute to us any harshness or ant of politeness! let us tell her that there is an ancient Nuarrel bet een philosophy and poetryO of hich there are many proofs! such as the saying of Tthe yelping hound ho ling at her lord!. or of one Tmighty in the #ain talk of fools!. and Tthe mob of sages circum#enting Ueus!. and the Tsubtle thinkers ho are beggars after all.O and there are innumerable other signs of ancient enmity bet een them. 9ot ithstanding this! let us assure our s eet friend and the sister arts of imitation that if she ill only pro#e her title to exist in a ellMordered )tate e shall be delighted to recei#e herMM e are #ery conscious of her charmsO but e may not on that account betray the truth. - dare say! Glaucon! that you are as much charmed by her as - am! especially hen she appears in 'omerK Les! indeed! - am greatly charmed.

)hall - propose! then! that she be allo ed to return from exile! but upon this condition onlyMMthat she make a defence of herself in lyrical or some other metreK (ertainly. =nd e may further grant to those of her defenders ho are lo#ers of poetry and yet not poets the permission to speak in prose on her behalfA let them sho not only that she is pleasant but also useful to )tates and to human life! and e ill listen in a kindly spiritO for if this can be pro#ed e shall surely be the gainersMM- mean! if there is a use in poetry as ell as a delightK (ertainly! he said! e shall the gainers. -f her defence fails! then! my dear friend! like other persons ho are enamoured of something! but put a restraint upon themsel#es hen they think their desires are opposed to their interests! so too must e after the manner of lo#ers gi#e her up! though not ithout a struggle. We too are inspired by that lo#e of poetry hich the education of noble )tates has implanted in us! and therefore e ould ha#e her appear at her best and truestO but so long as she is unable to make good her defence! this argument of ours shall be a charm to us! hich e ill repeat to oursel#es hile e listen to her strainsO that e may not fall a ay into the childish lo#e of her hich capti#ates the many. =t all e#ents e are ell a are that poetry being such as e ha#e described is not to be regarded seriously as attaining to the truthO and he ho listens to her! fearing for the safety of the city hich is ithin him! should be on his guard against her seductions and make our ords his la . Les! he said! - Nuite agree ith you. Les! - said! my dear Glaucon! for great is the issue at stake! greater than appears! hether a man is to be good or bad. =nd hat ill any one be profited if under the influence of honour or money or po er! aye! or under the excitement of poetry! he neglect justice and #irtueK

Les! he saidO - ha#e been con#inced by the argument! as - belie#e that any one else ould ha#e been. =nd yet no mention has been made of the greatest pri7es and re ards hich a ait #irtue. What! are there any greater stillK -f there are! they must be of an inconcei#able greatness. Why! - said! hat as e#er great in a short timeK The hole period of threescore years and ten is surely but a little thing in comparison ith eternityK )ay rather Tnothing!. he replied. =nd should an immortal being seriously think of this little space rather than of the holeK 8f the hole! certainly. &ut hy do you askK =re you not a are! - said! that the soul of man is immortal and imperishableK 'e looked at me in astonishment! and saidA 9o! by hea#enA =nd are you really prepared to maintain thisK Les! - said! - ought to be! and you tooMMthere is no difficulty in pro#ing it. - see a great difficultyO but - should like to hear you state this argument of hich you make so light. <isten then. - am attending. There is a thing hich you call good and another hich you call e#ilK Les! he replied.

Would you agree ith me in thinking that the corrupting and destroying element is the e#il! and the sa#ing and impro#ing element the goodK Les. =nd you admit that e#ery thing has a good and also an e#ilO as ophthalmia is the e#il of the eyes and disease of the hole bodyO as milde is of corn! and rot of timber! or rust of copper and ironA in e#erything! or in almost e#erything! there is an inherent e#il and diseaseK Les! he said. =nd anything hich is infected by any of these e#ils is made e#il! and at last holly dissol#es and diesK True. The #ice and e#il hich is inherent in each is the destruction of eachO and if this does not destroy them there is nothing else that illO for good certainly ill not destroy them! nor again! that hich is neither good nor e#il. (ertainly not. -f! then! e find any nature hich ha#ing this inherent corruption cannot be dissol#ed or destroyed! e may be certain that of such a nature there is no destructionK That may be assumed. Well! - said! and is there no e#il hich corrupts the soulK Les! he said! there are all the e#ils hich e ere just no passing in re#ie A unrighteousness! intemperance! co ardice! ignorance. &ut does any of these dissol#e or destroy herKMMand here do not let us fall into the error of supposing that the unjust and foolish man! hen he is detected! perishes through his o n injustice!

hich is an e#il of the soul. Take the analogy of the bodyA The e#il of the body is a disease hich astes and reduces and annihilates the bodyO and all the things of hich e ere just no speaking come to annihilation through their o n corruption attaching to them and inhering in them and so destroying them. -s not this trueK Les. (onsider the soul in like manner. "oes the injustice or other e#il hich exists in the soul aste and consume herK "o they by attaching to the soul and inhering in her at last bring her to death! and so separate her from the body K (ertainly not. =nd yet! - said! it is unreasonable to suppose that anything can perish from ithout through affection of external e#il hich could not be destroyed from ithin by a corruption of its o nK -t is! he replied. (onsider! - said! Glaucon! that e#en the badness of food! hether staleness! decomposition! or any other bad Nuality! hen confined to the actual food! is not supposed to destroy the bodyO although! if the badness of food communicates corruption to the body! then e should say that the body has been destroyed by a corruption of itself! hich is disease! brought on by thisO but that the body! being one thing! can be destroyed by the badness of food! hich is another! and hich does not engender any natural infectionMM this e shall absolutely denyK %ery true. =nd! on the same principle! unless some bodily e#il can produce an e#il of the soul! e must not suppose that the soul! hich is one thing! can be dissol#ed by any merely external e#il hich belongs to anotherK Les! he said! there is reason in that.

Either then! let us refute this conclusion! or! hile it remains unrefuted! let us ne#er say that fe#er! or any other disease! or the knife put to the throat! or e#en the cutting up of the hole body into the minutest pieces! can destroy the soul! until she herself is pro#ed to become more unholy or unrighteous in conseNuence of these things being done to the bodyO but that the soul! or anything else if not destroyed by an internal e#il! can be destroyed by an external one! is not to. be affirmed by any man. =nd surely! he replied! no one ill e#er pro#e that the souls of men become more unjust in conseNuence of death. &ut if some one ho ould rather not admit the immortality of the soul boldly denies this! and says that the dying do really become more e#il and unrighteous! then! if the speaker is right! - suppose that injustice! like disease! must be assumed to be fatal to the unjust! and that those ho take this disorder die by the natural inherent po er of destruction hich e#il has! and hich kills them sooner or later! but in Nuite another ay from that in hich! at present! the icked recei#e death at the hands of others as the penalty of their deedsK 9ay! he said! in that case injustice! if fatal to the unjust! ill not be so #ery terrible to him! for he ill be deli#ered from e#il. &ut - rather suspect the opposite to be the truth! and that injustice hich! if it ha#e the po er! ill murder others! keeps the murderer ali#eMMaye! and ell a ake tooO so far remo#ed is her d ellingMplace from being a house of death. True! - saidO if the inherent natural #ice or e#il of the soul is unable to kill or destroy her! hardly ill that hich is appointed to be the destruction of some other body! destroy a soul or anything else except that of hich it as appointed to be the destruction. Les! that can hardly be. &ut the soul hich cannot be destroyed by an e#il! hether inherent or external! must exist for e#er! and if existing for e#er! must be immortalK

(ertainly. That is the conclusion! - saidO and! if a true conclusion! then the souls must al ays be the same! for if none be destroyed they ill not diminish in number. 9either ill they increase! for the increase of the immortal natures must come from something mortal! and all things ould thus end in immortality. %ery true. &ut this e cannot belie#eMMreason ill not allo usMM any more than e can belie#e the soul! in her truest nature! to be full of #ariety and difference and dissimilarity. What do you meanK he said. The soul! - said! being! as is no pro#en! immortal! must be the fairest of compositions and cannot be compounded of many elementsK (ertainly not. 'er immortality is demonstrated by the pre#ious argument! and there are many other proofsO but to see her as she really is! not as e no behold her! marred by communion ith the body and other miseries! you must contemplate her ith the eye of reason! in her original purityO and then her beauty ill be re#ealed! and justice and injustice and all the things hich e ha#e described ill be manifested more clearly. Thus far! e ha#e spoken the truth concerning her as she appears at present! but e must remember also that e ha#e seen her only in a condition hich may be compared to that of the seaMgod Glaucus! hose original image can hardly be discerned because his natural members are broken off and crushed and damaged by the a#es in all sorts of ays! and incrustations ha#e gro n o#er them of sea eed and shells and stones! so that he is more like some monster than he is to his o n natural form. =nd the soul hich e behold is in a similar condition! disfigured by ten thousand ills. &ut not there! Glaucon! not there must e look. Where thenK

=t her lo#e of isdom. <et us see hom she affects! and hat society and con#erse she seeks in #irtue of her near kindred ith the immortal and eternal and di#ineO also ho different she ould become if holly follo ing this superior principle! and borne by a di#ine impulse out of the ocean in hich she no is! and disengaged from the stones and shells and things of earth and rock hich in ild #ariety spring up around her because she feeds upon earth! and is o#ergro n by the good things of this life as they are termedA then you ould see her as she is! and kno hether she has one shape only or many! or hat her nature is. 8f her affections and of the forms hich she takes in this present life - think that e ha#e no said enough. True! he replied. =nd thus! - said! e ha#e fulfilled the conditions of the argumentO e ha#e not introduced the re ards and glories of justice! hich! as you ere saying! are to be found in 'omer and 'esiodO but justice in her o n nature has been sho n to be best for the soul in her o n nature. <et a man do hat is just! hether he ha#e the ring of Gyges or not! and e#en if in addition to the ring of Gyges he put on the helmet of 'ades. %ery true. =nd no ! Glaucon! there ill be no harm in further enumerating ho many and ho great are the re ards hich justice and the other #irtues procure to the soul from gods and men! both in life and after death. (ertainly not! he said. Will you repay me! then! hat you borro ed in the argumentK What did - borro K The assumption that the just man should appear unjust and the unjust justA for you ere of opinion that e#en if the true state of the case could not possibly escape the eyes of gods and men! still this admission ought to be made for the sake of the argument! in order that pure justice might be eighed against pure injustice.

"o you rememberK - should be much to blame if - had forgotten. Then! as the cause is decided! - demand on behalf of justice that the estimation in hich she is held by gods and men and hich e ackno ledge to be her due should no be restored to her by usO since she has been sho n to confer reality! and not to decei#e those ho truly possess her! let hat has been taken from her be gi#en back! that so she may in that palm of appearance hich is hers also! and hich she gi#es to her o n. The demand! he said! is just. -n the first place! - saidMMand this is the first thing hich you ill ha#e to gi#e backMMthe nature both of the just and unjust is truly kno n to the gods. Granted. =nd if they are both kno n to them! one must be the friend and the other the enemy of the gods! as e admitted from the beginningK True. =nd the friend of the gods may be supposed to recei#e from them all things at their best! excepting only such e#il as is the necessary conseNuence of former sinsK (ertainly. Then this must be our notion of the just man! that e#en hen he is in po#erty or sickness! or any other seeming misfortune! all things ill in the end ork together for good to him in life and deathA for the gods ha#e a care of any one hose desire is to become just and to be like God! as far as man can attain the di#ine likeness! by the pursuit of #irtueK Les! he saidO if he is like God he ill surely not be neglected by him.

=nd of the unjust may not the opposite be supposedK (ertainly. )uch! then! are the palms of #ictory hich the gods gi#e the justK That is my con#iction. =nd hat do they recei#e of menK <ook at things as they really are! and you ill see that the cle#er unjust are in the case of runners! ho run ell from the startingMplace to the goal but not back again from the goalA they go off at a great pace! but in the end only look foolish! slinking a ay ith their ears draggling on their shoulders! and ithout a cro nO but the true runner comes to the finish and recei#es the pri7e and is cro ned. =nd this is the ay ith the justO he ho endures to the end of e#ery action and occasion of his entire life has a good report and carries off the pri7e hich men ha#e to besto . True. =nd no you must allo me to repeat of the just the blessings hich you ere attributing to the fortunate unjust. - shall say of them! hat you ere saying of the others! that as they gro older! they become rulers in their o n city if they care to beO they marry hom they like and gi#e in marriage to hom they illO all that you said of the others - no say of these. =nd! on the other hand! of the unjust - say that the greater number! e#en though they escape in their youth! are found out at last and look foolish at the end of their course! and hen they come to be old and miserable are flouted alike by stranger and citi7enO they are beaten and then come those things unfit for ears polite! as you truly term themO they ill be racked and ha#e their eyes burned out! as you ere saying. =nd you may suppose that - ha#e repeated the remainder of your tale of horrors. &ut ill you let me assume! ithout reciting them! that these things are trueK (ertainly! he said! hat you say is true.

These! then! are the pri7es and re ards and gifts hich are besto ed upon the just by gods and men in this present life! in addition to the other good things hich justice of herself pro#ides. Les! he saidO and they are fair and lasting. =nd yet! - said! all these are as nothing! either in number or greatness in comparison ith those other recompenses hich a ait both just and unjust after death. =nd you ought to hear them! and then both just and unjust ill ha#e recei#ed from us a full payment of the debt hich the argument o es to them. )peak! he saidO there are fe things hich - ould more gladly hear. )8(R=TE) Well! - said! - ill tell you a taleO not one of the tales hich 8dysseus tells to the hero =lcinous! yet this too is a tale of a hero! Er the son of =rmenius! a Pamphylian by birth. 'e as slain in battle! and ten days after ards! hen the bodies of the dead ere taken up already in a state of corruption! his body as found unaffected by decay! and carried a ay home to be buried. =nd on the t elfth day! as he as lying on the funeral pile! he returned to life and told them hat he had seen in the other orld. 'e said that hen his soul left the body he ent on a journey ith a great company! and that they came to a mysterious place at hich there ere t o openings in the earthO they ere near together! and o#er against them ere t o other openings in the hea#en abo#e. -n the intermediate space there ere judges seated! ho commanded the just! after they had gi#en judgment on them and had bound their sentences in front of them! to ascend by the hea#enly ay on the right handO and in like manner the unjust ere bidden by them to descend by the lo er ay on the left handO these also bore the symbols of their deeds! but fastened on their backs. 'e dre near! and they told him that he as to be the messenger ho ould carry the report of the other orld to men! and they bade him hear and see all that as to be heard and seen in that place. Then he beheld and sa on one side the souls departing at either opening of hea#en and earth hen sentence had been gi#en on themO and at the t o other openings other souls! some ascending

out of the earth dusty and orn ith tra#el! some descending out of hea#en clean and bright. =nd arri#ing e#er and anon they seemed to ha#e come from a long journey! and they ent forth ith gladness into the meado ! here they encamped as at a festi#alO and those ho kne one another embraced and con#ersed! the souls hich came from earth curiously enNuiring about the things abo#e! and the souls hich came from hea#en about the things beneath. =nd they told one another of hat had happened by the ay! those from belo eeping and sorro ing at the remembrance of the things hich they had endured and seen in their journey beneath the earth >no the journey lasted a thousand years?! hile those from abo#e ere describing hea#enly delights and #isions of inconcei#able beauty. The )tory! Glaucon! ould take too long to tellO but the sum as thisAMM 'e said that for e#ery rong hich they had done to any one they suffered tenfoldO or once in a hundred yearsMMsuch being reckoned to be the length of man.s life! and the penalty being thus paid ten times in a thousand years. -f! for example! there ere any ho had been the cause of many deaths! or had betrayed or ensla#ed cities or armies! or been guilty of any other e#il beha#iour! for each and all of their offences they recei#ed punishment ten times o#er! and the re ards of beneficence and justice and holiness ere in the same proportion. - need hardly repeat hat he said concerning young children dying almost as soon as they ere born. 8f piety and impiety to gods and parents! and of murderers! there ere retributions other and greater far hich he described. 'e mentioned that he as present hen one of the spirits asked another! TWhere is =rdiaeus the GreatK. >9o this =rdiaeus li#ed a thousand years before the time of ErA he had been the tyrant of some city of Pamphylia! and had murdered his aged father and his elder brother! and as said to ha#e committed many other abominable crimes.? The ans er of the other spirit asA T'e comes not hither and ill ne#er come. =nd this!. said he! T as one of the dreadful sights hich e oursel#es itnessed. We ere at the mouth of the ca#ern! and! ha#ing completed all our experiences! ere about to reascend! hen of a sudden =rdiaeus appeared and se#eral others! most of hom ere tyrantsO and there ere also besides the tyrants pri#ate indi#iduals ho had been great criminalsA they ere just! as they fancied! about to return into the upper orld! but the mouth! instead of admitting them! ga#e a roar! hene#er any of these incurable sinners or some one ho had not been sufficiently punished tried to ascendO and then

ild men of fiery aspect! ho ere standing by and heard the sound! sei7ed and carried them offO and =rdiaeus and others they bound head and foot and hand! and thre them do n and flayed them ith scourges! and dragged them along the road at the side! carding them on thorns like ool! and declaring to the passersMby hat ere their crimes! and that they ere being taken a ay to be cast into hell.. =nd of all the many terrors hich they had endured! he said that there as none like the terror hich each of them felt at that moment! lest they should hear the #oiceO and hen there as silence! one by one they ascended ith exceeding joy. These! said Er! ere the penalties and retributions! and there ere blessings as great. 9o hen the spirits hich ere in the meado had tarried se#en days! on the eighth they ere obliged to proceed on their journey! and! on the fourth day after! he said that they came to a place here they could see from abo#e a line of light! straight as a column! extending right through the hole hea#en and through the earth! in colour resembling the rainbo ! only brighter and purerO another day.s journey brought them to the place! and there! in the midst of the light! they sa the ends of the chains of hea#en let do n from abo#eA for this light is the belt of hea#en! and holds together the circle of the uni#erse! like the underMgirders of a trireme. $rom these ends is extended the spindle of 9ecessity! on hich all the re#olutions turn. The shaft and hook of this spindle are made of steel! and the horl is made partly of steel and also partly of other materials. 9o the horl is in form like the horl used on earthO and the description of it implied that there is one large hollo horl hich is Nuite scooped out! and into this is fitted another lesser one! and another! and another! and four others! making eight in all! like #essels hich fit into one anotherO the horls sho their edges on the upper side! and on their lo er side all together form one continuous horl. This is pierced by the spindle! hich is dri#en home through the centre of the eighth. The first and outermost horl has the rim broadest! and the se#en inner horls are narro er! in the follo ing proportionsMM the sixth is next to the first in si7e! the fourth next to the sixthO then comes the eighthO the se#enth is fifth! the fifth is sixth! the third is se#enth! last and eighth comes the second. The largest >of fixed stars? is spangled! and the se#enth >or sun?

is brightestO the eighth >or moon? coloured by the reflected light of the se#enthO the second and fifth >)aturn and ;ercury? are in colour like one another! and yello er than the precedingO the third >%enus? has the hitest lightO the fourth >;ars? is reddishO the sixth >/upiter? is in hiteness second. 9o the hole spindle has the same motionO but! as the hole re#ol#es in one direction! the se#en inner circles mo#e slo ly in the other! and of these the s iftest is the eighthO next in s iftness are the se#enth! sixth! and fifth! hich mo#e togetherO third in s iftness appeared to mo#e according to the la of this re#ersed motion the fourthO the third appeared fourth and the second fifth. The spindle turns on the knees of 9ecessityO and on the upper surface of each circle is a siren! ho goes round ith them! hymning a single tone or note. The eight together form one harmonyO and round about! at eNual inter#als! there is another band! three in number! each sitting upon her throneA these are the $ates! daughters of 9ecessity! ho are clothed in hite robes and ha#e chaplets upon their heads! <achesis and (lotho and =tropos! ho accompany ith their #oices the harmony of the sirensMM <achesis singing of the past! (lotho of the present! =tropos of the futureO (lotho from time to time assisting ith a touch of her right hand the re#olution of the outer circle of the horl or spindle! and =tropos ith her left hand touching and guiding the inner ones! and <achesis laying hold of either in turn! first ith one hand and then ith the other. When Er and the spirits arri#ed! their duty as to go at once to <achesisO but first of all there came a prophet ho arranged them in orderO then he took from the knees of <achesis lots and samples of li#es! and ha#ing mounted a high pulpit! spoke as follo sA T'ear the ord of <achesis! the daughter of 9ecessity. ;ortal souls! behold a ne cycle of life and mortality. Lour genius ill not be allotted to you! but you choose your geniusO and let him ho dra s the first lot ha#e the first choice! and the life hich he chooses shall be his destiny. %irtue is free! and as a man honours or dishonours her he ill ha#e more or less of herO the responsibility is ith the chooserMMGod is justified.. When the -nterpreter had thus spoken he scattered lots indifferently among them all! and each of them took up the lot hich fell near him! all but Er himself >he as not allo ed?! and each as he took his lot percei#ed the number hich he had obtained. Then the -nterpreter

placed on the ground before them the samples of li#esO and there ere many more li#es than the souls present! and they ere of all sorts. There ere li#es of e#ery animal and of man in e#ery condition. =nd there ere tyrannies among them! some lasting out the tyrant.s life! others hich broke off in the middle and came to an end in po#erty and exile and beggaryO and there ere li#es of famous men! some ho ere famous for their form and beauty as ell as for their strength and success in games! or! again! for their birth and the Nualities of their ancestorsO and some ho ere the re#erse of famous for the opposite Nualities. =nd of omen like iseO there as not! ho e#er! any definite character them! because the soul! hen choosing a ne life! must of necessity become different. &ut there as e#ery other Nuality! and the all mingled ith one another! and also ith elements of ealth and po#erty! and disease and healthO and there ere mean states also. =nd here! my dear Glaucon! is the supreme peril of our human stateO and therefore the utmost care should be taken. <et each one of us lea#e e#ery other kind of kno ledge and seek and follo one thing only! if perad#enture he may be able to learn and may find some one ho ill make him able to learn and discern bet een good and e#il! and so to choose al ays and e#ery here the better life as he has opportunity. 'e should consider the bearing of all these things hich ha#e been mentioned se#erally and collecti#ely upon #irtueO he should kno hat the effect of beauty is hen combined ith po#erty or ealth in a particular soul! and hat are the good and e#il conseNuences of noble and humble birth! of pri#ate and public station! of strength and eakness! of cle#erness and dullness! and of all the soul! and the operation of them hen conjoinedO he ill then look at the nature of the soul! and from the consideration of all these Nualities he ill be able to determine hich is the better and hich is the orseO and so he ill choose! gi#ing the name of e#il to the life hich ill make his soul more unjust! and good to the life hich ill make his soul more justO all else he ill disregard. $or e ha#e seen and kno that this is the best choice both in life and after death. = man must take ith him into the orld belo an adamantine faith in truth and right! that there too he may be unda77led by the desire of ealth or the other allurements of e#il! lest! coming upon tyrannies and similar #illainies! he do irremediable rongs to others and suffer yet orse himselfO but let him kno ho to choose the mean and a#oid the extremes on either side! as far as possible! not only in this

life but in all that hich is to come. $or this is the ay of happiness. =nd according to the report of the messenger from the other orld this as hat the prophet said at the timeA TE#en for the last comer! if he chooses isely and ill li#e diligently! there is appointed a happy and not undesirable existence. <et not him ho chooses first be careless! and let not the last despair.. =nd hen he had spoken! he ho had the first choice came for ard and in a moment chose the greatest tyrannyO his mind ha#ing been darkened by folly and sensuality! he had not thought out the hole matter before he chose! and did not at first sight percei#e that he as fated! among other e#ils! to de#our his o n children. &ut hen he had time to reflect! and sa hat as in the lot! he began to beat his breast and lament o#er his choice! forgetting the proclamation of the prophetO for! instead of thro ing the blame of his misfortune on himself! he accused chance and the gods! and e#erything rather than himself. 9o he as one of those ho came from hea#en! and in a former life had d elt in a ellMordered )tate! but his #irtue as a matter of habit only! and he had no philosophy. =nd it as true of others ho ere similarly o#ertaken! that the greater number of them came from hea#en and therefore they had ne#er been schooled by trial! hereas the pilgrims ho came from earth! ha#ing themsel#es suffered and seen others suffer! ere not in a hurry to choose. =nd o ing to this inexperience of theirs! and also because the lot as a chance! many of the souls exchanged a good destiny for an e#il or an e#il for a good. $or if a man had al ays on his arri#al in this orld dedicated himself from the first to sound philosophy! and had been moderately fortunate in the number of the lot! he might! as the messenger reported! be happy here! and also his journey to another life and return to this! instead of being rough and underground! ould be smooth and hea#enly. ;ost curious! he said! as the spectacleMMsad and laughable and strangeO for the choice of the souls as in most cases based on their experience of a pre#ious life. There he sa the soul hich had once been 8rpheus choosing the life of a s an out of enmity to the race of omen! hating to be born of a oman because they had been his murderersO he beheld also the soul of Thamyras choosing the life of a nightingaleO birds! on the other hand! like the s an and other musicians! anting to be men. The soul hich obtained the t entieth lot chose

the life of a lion! and this as the soul of =jax the son of Telamon! ho ould not be a man! remembering the injustice hich as done him the judgment about the arms. The next as =gamemnon! ho took the life of an eagle! because! like =jax! he hated human nature by reason of his sufferings. =bout the middle came the lot of =talantaO she! seeing the great fame of an athlete! as unable to resist the temptationA and after her there follo ed the soul of Epeus the son of Panopeus passing into the nature of a oman cunning in the artsO and far a ay among the last ho chose! the soul of the jester Thersites as putting on the form of a monkey. There came also the soul of 8dysseus ha#ing yet to make a choice! and his lot happened to be the last of them all. 9o the recollection of former tolls had disenchanted him of ambition! and he ent about for a considerable time in search of the life of a pri#ate man ho had no caresO he had some difficulty in finding this! hich as lying about and had been neglected by e#erybody elseO and hen he sa it! he said that he ould ha#e done the had his lot been first instead of last! and that he as delighted to ha#e it. =nd not only did men pass into animals! but must also mention that there ere animals tame and ild ho changed into one another and into corresponding human naturesMM the good into the gentle and the e#il into the sa#age! in all sorts of combinations. =ll the souls had no chosen their li#es! and they ent in the order of their choice to <achesis! ho sent ith them the genius hom they had se#erally chosen! to be the guardian of their li#es and the fulfiller of the choiceA this genius led the souls first to (lotho! and dre them ithin the re#olution of the spindle impelled by her hand! thus ratifying the destiny of eachO and then! hen they ere fastened to this! carried them to =tropos! ho spun the threads and made them irre#ersible! hence ithout turning round they passed beneath the throne of 9ecessityO and hen they had all passed! they marched on in a scorching heat to the plain of $orgetfulness! hich as a barren aste destitute of trees and #erdureO and then to ards e#ening they encamped by the ri#er of :nmindfulness! hose ater no #essel can holdO of this they ere all obliged to drink a certain Nuantity! and those ho ere not sa#ed by isdom drank more than as necessaryO and each one as he drank forgot all things. 9o after they had gone

to rest! about the middle of the night there as a thunderstorm and earthNuake! and then in an instant they ere dri#en up ards in all manner of ays to their birth! like stars shooting. 'e himself as hindered from drinking the ater. &ut in hat manner or by hat means he returned to the body he could not sayO only! in the morning! a aking suddenly! he found himself lying on the pyre. =nd thus! Glaucon! the tale has been sa#ed and has not perished! and ill sa#e us if e are obedient to the ord spokenO and e shall pass safely o#er the ri#er of $orgetfulness and our soul ill not be defiled. Wherefore my counsel is that e hold fast e#er to the hea#enly ay and follo after justice and #irtue al ays! considering that the soul is immortal and able to endure e#ery sort of good and e#ery sort of e#il. Thus shall e li#e dear to one another and to the gods! both hile remaining here and hen! like conNuerors in the games ho go round to gather gifts! e recei#e our re ard. =nd it shall be ell ith us both in this life and in the pilgrimage of a thousand years hich e ha#e been describing. End of the Project Gutenberg Edition of The Republic! by Plato***