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Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz
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suresh_sharma
...



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 718

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:46 pm Post subject:
Now I come to the conclusion after going into the posting of Mr. Sarkar that Kz and Lz have
nothing to do with slenderness ratio or effective length factor.
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bijay sarkar
...



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 294

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject:
No No...

Kz, Ky, UNF are effective length factors and Lz, Ly, UNL are effective lengths. Only one set of data
are to be provided in staad...either factors or Eff. lengths. If u provide factors, staad will itself
calculate the effective lengths for further calculation of the slenderness ratio of the member.

If you provide effective lengths Lz, Ly, UNL then staad will simply calculate the slenderness ratio of
the member for calculating the permissible stress of the member for design verification.


regards,

bijay sarkar
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suresh_sharma
...



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 718

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:51 pm Post subject:
Mr. Sarkar, do you mean to say that Ly and Lz which in majority of the cases are node to node
distance are the effective length of the member for the purpose of design in compression but IS
456 utlises sway and non sway definition coupled with Beta1 and beta2 factors for determning
effective length factor. In majority of the sway frames the effective length factor will work out to
more than 1. In fact the minimum value of the factor for the sway frame is 1. If this is the case
then Staad is not considering effective length for design in the true spirit of the code.
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bijay sarkar
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:57 am Post subject:
N t k A M Th t b
Page 1of 5 www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz
14/08/2013 http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35123
...



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 294

As the discussion was going on based on a staad file of steel structure, my all above postings are
related with steel structures where effective length factors may be less than 1 such as truss
members and bracing members. It depends on end fixity condition of the member. In steel
structure, i have not found any engineer to calculate it from Beta1 and Beta2 which are
cumbersome. Before Beta1 and Beta2, we are to decide which structure is a sway frame & which
one is a non-sway frame. In case of columns, this factor is considered greater than unity in the
direction of moment frame which is assumed as sway frame direction. In the braced direction, it is
assumed as unity i.e for non-sway frame.

regards,

bijay sarkar
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debayan
...



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 83

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:40 am Post subject:
Some people have the habit of giving one length only, which they usually give by multipliying the
kx or kz factor along with the actual length.

That is absolutely permissible provided you don't ge confused.

Personally I feel it is better to give Ly, Lz seperate and Ky, Kz seperate just because it is easy for
someone to verify if the particular STAAD file is given to someone for checking.
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debayan
...



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 83

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:51 am Post subject:
@Suresh Sharma:- Actually I have yet to work thoroughly on the new IS code. It is based on limit
state method, so it might have a new method to calculate Ky and Kz. But I clearly remember in the
older code the Max value of K was 2 (for cantilever members).

But if you go according to AISC or BS codes you can have K values greater than 2 and that too for
non-cantilever members. Actually in these codes they calculate the total rotational stiffness of the
joint based on the column stiffness and the stiffnesses of the members framing into it. That, I feel
gives a far accurate picture.

Anyways, lets not get confused and you stick to the code that you are following at present.

K factor cannot be calculated in STAAD. That is a input parameter which has to be given in STAAD
or else it will take the default value as 1 which can have disastrous consequences.
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suresh_sharma
...



Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 718

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject:
The factors beta1 and beta2 are applicable even to steel structures for determining effective length
factor of sway and non sway frames In this connection please refer to Fig C1 and C2 of appendix C
of IS 800 -1984. Similar clause is also in IS 800-2007. Under the circumstances please guide me
as to how to go about it. One of my fellow designer has told me that he used to determine effective
length factor with the help of beta1 and beta2 during his previous assignment and that his
company had developed an Excel sheet for working out effective length factor based on beta1 and
beta2
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JVCSNL
...



Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 129
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject:
DearAll,
Pleaserefertofollowingdefinitions:
Page 2of 5 www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz
14/08/2013 http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35123

<xml><o></o>
1. Ly:UnsupportedLengthinlocalYaxisforacolumnmodelledinSTAADitisClear
distancebetweenbeamsparalleltolocalZdirection,thedistancebeingTopoflowerside
elementandbottomofupperelement
2. Lz:UnsupportedLengthinlocalZaxisforacolumnmodelledinSTAADitisClear
distancebetweenbeamsparalleltolocalYdirection,thedistancebeingTopoflowerside
elementandbottomofupperelement
3. KY:EffectiveLengthFactorforcalculationofslendernessinYaxis
4. KZ:EffectiveLengthFactorforcalculationofslendernessinZaxis
5. Ley:EffectiveLengthinYAxis=KYxLY
6. Lez:EffectiveLengthinZAxis=KZxLZ
LeyandLezaretheendresultsthatmatterthemembermost,whichismultiplicationofK
andLinappropriatedirection.Theyaredesignparametersrequiredfordesignofelements
andnotusedinanalysis.
Theseparametersarenecessarytocalculatetheslendernessratioofmember,whichisvery
importantparameterforstrengthofcompressionmembers.Hence,theseparametersare
applicabletocolumnsorbeamcolumns.Whetheritissteelorconcretecolumn,the
purposeoftheseparametersistoappropriatelyconsiderthecompressioncapacityofthe
elementunderdesign.
Basically,effectivelengthisthedistancebetweentwopointsbetweenwhichthe
compressionmemberbuckle.Forexample,incaseofcolumnfixedatbothends,the
bucklingwilloccurbetween0.7mlength(portionnearendsnotbuckled).Incaseof
cantilever,thesameis2(two)asthefirstpointisatfixedendandthesecondpointisat
imaginaryendwhichismirrorfromfreeend.
Effectivelengthfactorforbraced(nonsway)frameislessthanunity.Forunbraced(sway
frame)frameitisgreaterthanunity.Tocalculatetheeffectivelengthfactorsonehasto
understandthebucklingphenomena.Thebucklingofmemberdependsonitsrotational
stiffnessateachend.Therotationalstiffnessiscalculatedbasedonstiffnessofcolumn
elementandendconditionofbeamelementsatcolumnends.Thetermsbeta1andbeta2
representthestiffnessofbeamcolumnelementattwoendsofcompression
members.Bucklinganalysisaneigenvalueproblemanddifficulttosolvemanuallyand
hence,Woodhassuggestedsuchsimplifiedchartsinearlyseventies.
Hence,ifyoucancalculatetherotationalstiffnessofjointatbothends,whetheritissteelor
concrete,effectivelengthscanbecalculated.Foramultistoreyedsteelstructurehaving
momentconnectionsatfloors,thecalculationofeffectivelengthfactorsisveryimportant
andisbeingdone.Also,forcranecolumns,thesameisveryimportantincaseofheavier
cranesassteppedcolumnisanonprismaticmemberanditsbucklingbehaviourisquite
complex.Accordingtomyexperience,theeffectivelengthfactorofsuchcranecolumnsin
majoraxisisashighas5.
Forconcretestructures,LeyandLezarerequiredtocalculatethetypeofcolumnin
particulardirectionanddoneedfulfortheslendernesseffectsinparticulardirection.
<o></o>
Inactual3Dmodels,thephysicalmembersaredividedatmanynodepointstoformthe
geometryofthestructures.Themembersbetweensuchnodescanbetermedasanalytical
members.Usually,theprogramsdonotidentifythephysicalmembersunlesstheyare
definedusingtheseparameters.ETABSandSAPdohavesomefeatures,wherebyit
calculatestheappropriatelengthineachdirection.STAADdohaveoptionofphysical
membermodelling.
FordesignofsteelbeamsinSTAAD,thefactorUNLisunsupportedlengthtocalculatethe
bendingstress(basedonlateraltorsionalbuckling)andshallnotbeconfusedwithLyorLz
whichareusedforcalculationofcompressivestresses.
Formoreonthebucklingandeffectivelengths,onemayreferthepaperpublishedbyWood
intheStructuralengineerinseventiesandbooktheoryofelasticstabilitybyTimoshenko.
<o></o>
Regards,
JigneshChokshi
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suresh_sharma
...


Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:15 am Post subject:
Mr.Chokshi,
Page 3of 5 www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Calculation of Kz, Ky, Ly and Lz
14/08/2013 http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=35123

2003, 2008 SEFINDIA, Indian Domain Registration

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 718

Now I understand from your posting that ELY and ELZ factor has to be detrmined as per Beta1 and
Beta2 factor laid down in IS 456 and based on this input Staad will calculate l/r ratio otherwise
Staad will take into account the default value which will be erroneous. Am I correct?
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JVCSNL
...



Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 129

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject:
Dear Suresh,

Your understanding is correct. You need to provide necessary input (k and L) to calculate effective
lengths.

I also suggest that after you perform design in any commercial software, you also check one or two
designs manually for understanding and validating the design inputs.

Regards,

Jignesh Chokshi
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