INTERFAITH ALLIANCE STATE OF BELIEF RADIO MAY 10, 2014

RUSH TRANSCRIPT: Madihha Ahussain

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[REV. DR. C. WELTON GADDY, HOST]: Welcome back to State of Belief Radio,
everyone, Im Welton Gaddy.
Muslim Advocates is an organization that works to guarantee freedom and justice
for Americans of all faiths. This week, they released a comprehensive new report
titled Click Here to End Hate: Anti-Muslim Bigotry Online & How To Take
Action, and I am really happy to welcome Muslim Advocates Staff Attorney
Madihha Ahussain to State of Belief Radio.
Welcome, Madihha!
[MADIHHA AHUSSAIN, GUEST]: Thank you so much for having me. Its a
pleasure.
[WG]: I have so much respect for you and for Farhana, who is the Executive at
Muslim Advocates, and I read through this report as soon as I saw it and knew
that we had to cover it, because its absolutely a great report. It offers a thorough
review of whats been going on, even though whats been going on is saddening.
So would you talk about how bad it can get?
[MH]: Yeah, absolutely. So, as you know through our work together, hate and
bigotry toward American Muslims continues to be an issue, and particularly in the
last few years weve seen that post-9/11 backlash continues to be a problem.
And there are hate crimes targeting American Muslims, anti-Sharia law
legislation that continues to be proposed or passed in various states throughout
the country, and it also trickles down into mosque opposition for construction
sites or vandalism of mosques that already exist.
And the hate that we see in the broader society has also appeared on various
platforms online. And thats part of why we thought it was important to take a look
at that realm of hate, and try to put out a resource for people who are dealing
with that type of hate.
[WG]: Its easy, if ones listening, its easy to hear bigotry anywhere in our society
related to Muslims; and yet when someone gets online, it seems like thats like
taking steroids, and it just gets worse and worse, because people typing in what
theyre thinking is even more horrendous than what we hear in public.
You were able to identify in this report some of the most influential sources of
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anti-Muslim propaganda, and Id like for you, if you will, to tell us what some of
those are.
[MA]: Sure. So, as you mentioned, in the report we tried to cover some of the
anti-Muslim proponents that have been able to gather a significant number of
supporters in a very short period of time. There are some groups in the report
that we talk about that have been identified by others, such as the Southern
Poverty Law Center or the Anti-Defamation League as hate groups that are
targeting American Muslims.
One example of that is Stop Islamization of America, who is led by Pamela
Geller and her co-founder Robert Spencer. And theyve been able to gather a
significant number of supporters on their social media platforms. So if they have
their own Facebook page, they can quickly spread their views and their opinions
about Muslims instantaneously to a number of people that are following them
online. And thats just one example. And the report is designed to be basically a
resource, but it only covers a few examples. There are numerous examples of
hate and hateful groups, hateful views, that are being spread online within just
seconds, to hundreds of thousands of people or even millions of people.
[WG]: Some of the statistics in this report are just staggering. For example, 49%
of Americans believe Islam is incompatible with the American way of life! My
question is, Madihha, do you see the online bigotry as the driving force behind
that kind of statistic?
[MA]: I think that the online bigotry helps to perpetuate that type of hate, and
whats interesting about the way that hate can spread quickly online is that its
almost, in many ways, permanent; people can go and find something that was
posted from months ago or years ago online, if the perpetuator or the proponent
didnt take it down. Its instant, and it can be permanent, and as you mentioned,
sometimes people can type really hateful things online and theyre not as
concerned about the implications of that hate, because theres less identity
associated with that person; theres anonymity that they can sort of hide behind
when theyre speaking online. And that helps to amplify the voices and the
messages that theyre intending to put out there online.
[WG]: Madihha, I know that its almost impossible to read motivations and to
incorporate that in polling data; but I cant understand whats driving people like
Pam Gellar. I mean, do they in your opinion do they really believe that Islam
is incompatible with America? Do they really believe the fear that they try to
engender in others, or is this about something else? And whos financing this?
[MA]: I think its really hard to say what their true motivations are, but weve seen
that the broader society, the American public, have created sort of the space
where its acceptable to say what theyre saying; its acceptable for them to use
their public platform, whether its online or offline in society, to be able to express
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their views of Islam and Muslims. And the fact that they have such a strong
following just makes it that much more concerning for us, that people are
listening to them; people are hearing what theyre saying; and its on us to try to
educate people and try to inform others that there are opinions abut Islam that
are not well-founded, or are misinformed.
And as you may know, theres a significant amount of money that has been put
towards these groups. Theyre well-funded organizations and people that have
been able to gather a significant amount of support because of the space that
theyre given, both online and offline, to talk about these things.
And its our goal to use a report like this and the other work that we and other
organizations are doing, our allies like you guys and others, to try to inform those
people that are just not sure, you know? To try to educate them about whats
really out there, and what were doing to try to combat and counter the anti-
Muslim hate and bigotry towards religious minorities.
[WG]: Whats the greatest cause for concern when it comes to online hate and
bigotry?
[MA]: The greatest cause for concern is that whatever were seeing online has
real-life consequences for people in their daily lives. When someone experiences
hate online thats actually threatening their safety or endangering their life were
concerned about how that can affect people. And there are spaces online that
have been created where people can actually threaten violence or encourage
violence towards people.
Some of the examples that we included in the report are ones that really point to
the concern about threatening violence with, for example, the how to wink at a
Muslim photograph that was posted on Facebook by a County Commissioner in
Coffee Country, TN, that was a man holding a shotgun, and the caption was
how to wink at a Muslim.
And were concerned about how public officials or public figures are they feel
comfortable posting images like that online, and just leaving it up to others to
react to that. And others can take that to mean actually advocating for violence
against American Muslims in their communities or anywhere in America. And
were very seriously concerned about what implications that has for people in
their daily lives.
[WG]: Madihha, are there cases where individuals have been targeted online for
their Muslim faith, and then implicitly viewers have been encouraged to take
action against that person?
[MA]: You know, in doing research for the report, we were only able to provide a
cursory overview of all the types of hate that are appearing online, so its hard to
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say if theres a specific example that speaks to what you just said. But we have
seen one of the examples in the report talks about bullying of a student in high
school, and we have seen that Facebook was where the students initially
threatened violence against that student; and there was no action taken in
response to that by school administrators or law enforcement. And she was later
attacked physically, and then Facebook was then used again by the attacker to
sort of brag about what happened. So I dont know if theres implicit or explicit
threats that then lead to violence, but thats an example of how the social media
platform was used in conjunction with the attacks that were physically taking
place.
[WG]: You know, I dont consider myself to be a nave person, and yet Im having
the same feeling talking to you that I had reading the report I just keep going
back to motivation: how can people act like this? And maybe you dont have to
buy into my polarization if you dont want to, but is this about religion, or is it
about politics, or is it just about ignorance? You dont have to use any of those
words.
[MA]: Well, I think that your question is a question that people ask often, and you
know, we cant necessarily speak to any one persons motivation. But we do
believe that the majority of Americans actually reject hate, and that its just a
matter of trying to amplify those voices rather than have the voices that are
hateful speak louder than what we want people to hear. And so with Click Here
to End Hate, were hoping that people will come together and speak out against
the hate that were seeing online and in society, to be able to push back against it
and hopefully change the opinions of those that are not quite sure how to feel
about a certain topic.
[WG]: One of the superlative points about this report and a reason that I love it
like I do is that you dont just chronicle the problems; you also offer some
solutions. And Id like for you to talk about what people who come across online
religious bigotry can do about it.
[MA]: Absolutely. So there are two main responses that we focus on in the report:
one of them is using the tools that social media platforms have designed to
actually report offensive content. Many of the leading social media companies
and internet companies have specifically designed these tools so that they can
hear from their users. Theyre driven by user feedback, and they really look to us,
the users, to tell them what we think is offensive, what we think is hateful and
they have policies specifically addressing hate speech. So in the report youll see
that we talk about hate speech policies by Facebook and Youtube, and we also
talk about the policy by Twitter that focuses on violence and threats. So we really
encourage users to use those reporting functions, and let the companies know
what theyre concerned about. And then leave it to the company to decide
whether it violates their policies or not.
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The second thing that we highlight in the report is counterspeech, and how
effective and powerful it can be as an antidote to hate speech. And we give some
specific examples of counterspeech; the one that occurred most recently with the
announcement of Miss America 2014, when she won the crown, and how you
can quickly transform a hate-fueled message into something productive and
positive when youre using counterspeech. And we really encourage people to
use the social media platforms as a way of educating others, and maybe using
humor or ridicule to sort of lighten the topic, but also send a message.
[WG]: Yeah. If people go to your website, which I hope they do, will they find
there some recommendations for reading material that will help counter the lies
and the prejudice thats being distributed by these ther people?
[MA]: Our website definitely has resources that we direct people to learn more
about our work, and also some of the work that our allies are doing; so we
definitely hope that people will visit our website. And of course if anyone has any
questions, or theyd like to know more about what we do, we would love to have
them reach out to us to find out more.
[WG]: And tell us the website, please.
[MA]: Its www.muslimadvocates.org.
[WG]: And what about listeners who want to get their hands on this report, Click
Here to End Hate? Can they see it somewhere, or get it somewhere?
[MA]: Yeah, absolutely. They can go to our website and theres an online version
available on our website, and theres also a page specifically dedicated to the
report that sort of talks about some of the resources that we have. And if they
want a hard copy of the report, they can request that from us on the website.
[WG]: Ive been speaking with Madihha Ahussain, Staff Attorney with Muslim
Advocates, and a driving force behind this new release the organization has just
published; its called Click Here to End Hate: Anti-Muslim Bigotry Online & How
To Take Action. There are great recommendations on how to counter this stuff
as well.
Madihha, I thank you so much for the work that you did on this project, and also,
thank you for being with us today on State of Belief Radio!
[MA]: Thank you so much for having me.

State of Belief is based on the proposition that religion has a positive and healing
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role to play in the life of the nation. The show explains and explores that role by
illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in America the most religiously diverse
country in the world while exposing and critiquing both the political
manipulation of religion for partisan purposes and the religious manipulation of
government for sectarian purposes.
Each week, the Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy offers listeners critical analysis of the
news of religion and politics, and seeks to provide listeners with an
understanding and appreciation of religious liberty. Rev. Gaddy tackles politics
with the firm belief that the best way to secure freedom for religion in America is
to secure freedom from religion. State of Belief illustrates how the Religious
Right is wrong wrong for America and bad for religion.
Through interviews with celebrities and newsmakers and field reports from
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religiously pluralistic world.

Author of more than 20 books, including First Freedom First: A Citizens Guide to
Protecting Religious Liberty and the Separation of Church and State, the Rev.
Dr. C. Welton Gaddy leads the national non-partisan grassroots and educational
organization Interfaith Alliance and serves as Pastor for Preaching and Worship
at Northminster (Baptist) Church in Monroe, Louisiana.
In addition to being a prolific writer, Dr. Gaddy hosts the weekly State of Belief
radio program, where he explores the role of religion in the life of the nation by
illustrating the vast diversity of beliefs in America, while exposing and critiquing
both the political manipulation of religion for partisan purposes and the religious
manipulation of government for sectarian purposes.
Dr. Gaddy provides regular commentary to the national media on issues relating
to religion and politics. He has appeared on MSNBCs The Rachel Maddow
Show and Hardball, NBCs Nightly News and Dateline, PBSs Religion and
Ethics Newsweekly and The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, C-SPANs Washington
Journal, ABCs World News, and CNNs American Morning. Former host of
Morally Speaking on NBC affiliate KTVE in Monroe, Louisiana, Dr. Gaddy is a
regular contributor to mainstream and religious news outlets.
While ministering to churches with a message of inclusion, Dr. Gaddy emerged
as a leader among progressive and moderate Baptists. Among his many
leadership roles, he is a past president of the Alliance of Baptists and has been a
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20-year member of the Commission of Christian Ethics of the Baptist World
Alliance. His past leadership roles include serving as a member of the General
Council of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, President of Americans United for
Separation of Church and State, Chair of the Pastoral Leadership Commission of
the Baptist World Alliance and member of the World Economic Forums Council
of 100. Rev. Gaddy currently serves on the White House task force on the reform
of the Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.
Prior to the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC),
Dr. Gaddy served in many SBC leadership roles including as a member of the
conventions Executive Committee from 1980-84 and Director of Christian
Citizenship Development of the Christian Life Commission from 1973-77.
Dr. Gaddy received his undergraduate degree from Union University in Jackson,
Tennessee and his doctoral degree and divinity training from the Southern
Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.
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