ALEC Calls For Penalties On 'Freerider' Homeowners in Assault On Clean Energy - The Guardian

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Solar panels on a home in Los Angeles. Alec will promote legislation planning to
penalise individual homeowners who install solar panels. Photograph: Cultura/Rex
An alliance of corporations and conservative activists is mobilising to
penalise homeowners who install their own solar panels casting them
as "freeriders" in a sweeping new offensive against renewable energy,
the Guardian has learned.
Over the coming year, the American Legislative Exchange Council (Alec)
will promote legislation with goals ranging from penalising individual
homeowners and weakening state clean energy regulations, to blocking
the Environmental Protection Agency, which is Barack Obama's main
channel for climate action.
Details of Alec's strategy to block clean energy development at every
stage from the individual rooftop to the White House are revealed as
the group gathers for its policy summit in Washington this week.
About 800 state legislators and business leaders are due to attend the
three-day event, which begins on Wednesday with appearances by the
Wisconsin senator Ron Johnson and the Republican budget guru and
fellow Wisconsinite Paul Ryan.
Other Alec speakers will be a leading figure behind the recent
government shutdown, US senator Ted Cruz of Texas, and the
governors of Indiana and Wyoming, Mike Pence and Matt Mead.
For 2014, Alec plans to promote a suite of model bills and resolutions
aimed at blocking Barack Obama from cutting greenhouse gas
emissions, and state governments from promoting the expansion of wind
and solar power through regulations known as Renewable Portfolio
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ALEC calls for penalties on 'freerider'
homeowners in assault on clean energy
Documents reveal conservative group's anti-green agenda
Strategy to charge people who install their own solar panels
Environmentalists accuse Alec of protecting utility firms' profits
ALEC facing funding crisis after exodus of big donors
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theguardian.com, Wednesday 4 December 2013 17.49 GMT
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Standards.
Documents obtained by the Guardian show the core elements of its
strategy began to take shape at the previous board meeting in Chicago
in August, with meetings of its energy, environment and agriculture
subcommittees.
Further details of Alec's strategy were provided by John Eick, the
legislative analyst for Alec's energy, environment and agriculture
program.
Eick told the Guardian the group would be looking closely in the coming
year at how individual homeowners with solar panels are compensated
for feeding surplus electricity back into the grid.
"This is an issue we are going to be exploring," Eick said. He said Alec
wanted to lower the rate electricity companies pay homeowners for direct
power generation and maybe even charge homeowners for feeding
power into the grid.
"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially
freeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they
are using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers are
being penalised," he said.
Eick dismissed the suggestion that individuals who buy and install home-
based solar panels had made such investments. "How are they going to
get that electricity from their solar panel to somebody else's house?" he
said. "They should be paying to distribute the surplus electricity."
In November, Arizona became the first state to charge customers for
installing solar panels. The fee, which works out to about $5 a month for
the average homeowner, was far lower than that sought by the main
electricity company, which was seeking to add up to $100 a month to
customers' bills.
Gabe Elsner, director of the Energy and Policy Institute, said the attack
on small-scale solar was part of the larger Alec project to block clean
energy. "They are trying to eliminate pro-solar policies in the states to
protect utility industry profits," he said.
The group sponsored at least 77 energy bills in 34 states last year. The
measures were aimed at opposing renewable energy standards, pushing
through the Keystone XL pipeline project, and barring oversight on
fracking, according to an analysis by the Centre for Media and
Democracy.
Until now, the biggest target in Alec's sights were state Renewable
Portfolio Standards, which require electricity companies to source a
share of their power from wind, solar, biomass, or other clean energy.
Such measures are seen as critical to reducing America's use of coal
and oil, and to the fight against climate change. RPS are now in force in
30 states.
In 2012, Alec drafted a model bill pushing for the outright repeal of RPS.
In the confidential materials, prepared for the August board meeting,
Alec claimed to have made significant inroads against such clean energy
policies in 2013.
"Approximately 15 states across the country introduced legislation to
reform, freeze or repeal their state's renewable mandate," the taskforce
reported.
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That compares to model bills in just seven states in support of the hot-
button issue of the Keystone XL pipeline, according to figures in the
documents.
"This legislative year has seen the most action on renewable mandates
to date," the documents said.
Three of those states North Carolina, Ohio, and Kansas saw strong
pushes by conservative groups to reverse clean energy regulations this
year.
None of those efforts passed, however, with signs of strong local support
for wind farms and other clean energy projects that were seen as good
for the economy from Republicans as well as Democrats.
By August, Alec evidently decided its hopes of winning outright repeal of
RPS standards was overly ambitious.
At its meeting in August, Alec put forward an initiative that would allow
utility companies to import clean energy from other states rather than
invest in new, greener generation.
An "explanatory note" prepared for the meeting admitted: "One model
policy may be the right fit for one state but not work for another".
Elsner argued that after its bruising state battles in 2013, Alec was now
focused on weakening rather than seeking outright repeal of the
clean energy standards.
"What we saw in 2013 was an attempt to repeal RPS laws, and when that
failed what we are seeing now is a strategy that appears to be pro-
clean energy but would actually weaken those pro- clean energy laws by
retreating to the lowest common denominator," he said.
The other key agenda item for Alec's meeting this week is the EPA. The
group is looking at two proposals to curb the agency's powers one to
shut the EPA out of any meaningful oversight of fracking, and the other
to block action on climate change.
A model bill endorsed by the Alec board of directors last August would
strip the EPA of power to shut down a frack site or oil industry facility.
That would leave oversight of an industry that has to date fracked 2m
wells in 20 states to a patchwork of local authorities that have vastly
different standards of environmental protection.
The model bill would explicitly bar the EPA from shutting down any oil or
gas well or facility in any of them, limiting the agency's capacity to
enforce the clean water and clean air acts.
"The legislature declares that the United States Environmental Protection
Agency lacks the authority to deny permits of operation to these oil
and gas wells and facilities," the bill reads.
Eick said the bill was in keeping with the group's broader philosophy of
expanding power to the states.
"A national regulatory agency might impose a cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-
all regulation on states in many instances," he said.
The meeting will also focus on Obama's plan, announced last June, to
use the EPA to limit greenhouse gas emissions from future and existing
power plants.
"The EPA's forthcoming regulation of greenhouse gas emissions and
specifically carbon emissions from power plants will be of incredible
interest to states and membership so we are going to be focusing on
that. Absolutely," Eick said.
Power plants are the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions,
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accounting for about 40% last year. The EPA last September proposed
new standards for future power plants, and will tighten limits for existing
power plants next June.
Alec says requiring tougher standards would lead to spikes in electricity prices and
would damage the economy. Photograph: Rex Features
"It just shows that Alec uses lawmakers as lobbyists to block climate
legislation at every turn," said Connor Gibson, a researcher for
Greenpeace. "They try to undermine the authority of agencies that have
the power potentially to control carbon pollution, so whenever there is a
new EPA rule that pops up, they re-tool their arsenal of model bills to
make sure they are blocking the new rule."
The resolution on the EPA for Alec members' consideration this week
argues that requiring tougher standards from the next generation of
power plants lead to spikes in electricity prices and would damage the
economy.
"Alec is very concerned about the potential economic impact of
greenhouse gas regulation on electricity prices and the harm EPA
regulations may have on the economic recovery," the resolution reads.
Environmental lawyers said the resolution amounted to a "new manifesto"
against the EPA regulating carbon pollution. "They don't want the EPA to
regulate greenhouse gas emissions," said Ann Weeks, legal director for
the Clean Air Task Force.
She disputed a number of claims within the Alec resolution including
the assertion that reducing carbon pollution would lead to an 80% rise in
electricity prices. Economic analyses by the EPA and others have
suggested those rises would be fairly limited.
"They will probably tell you they don't want the EPA to regulate anything
so it is in their interest to turn what the EPA has proposed into something
that is grotesque and unreasonable, which I don't think is true," Weeks
said.
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467 comments. Showing 50 conversations, threads collapsed , sorted
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18 PEOPLE, 20 COMMENTS
Show 17 more replies Last reply: 06 December 2013 11:15pm
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jessydarnsmith
Google and Facebook recently joined ALEC that should give you an idea of where
their priorities lie.
04 December 2013 6:04pm
162
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SikOseph jessydarnsmith
Really? But I thought Google's motto was 'Don't be evil'? Aren't they on our
side?
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CharlesSedley jessydarnsmith
Guess that shoots Google's "Do No Evil" motto all to hell.
98
tyrosinekinase SikOseph
B. Kiddo: "Guess that makes him a liar, don't it?"
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SteveK9
These guys are despicable, but they are right about this. Bunch of rich eco-
dilletantes get money from low-income workers for their useless solar panels, so
they can feel good about themselves.
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imupset SteveK9
@SteveK9 -
Can you read?! The article clearly states:
The group sponsored at least 77 energy bills in 34 states last
year. The measures were aimed at opposing renewable energy
standards, pushing through the Keystone XL pipeline project, and
barring oversight on fracking, according to an analysis by the
Centre for Media and Democracy.
It is not a question of "rich eco-dilletantes" stealing money from the poor
"for their useless solar panels." It's about some of the largest companies
forcing everyone to buy from them and accept their anti-earth agenda. Just
wondering, did you take your meds today?
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Jesse Britton Coleman SteveK9
huh? Explain why I should pay a utility up to $1200 a year for solar panels
that i already bought and installed? What could that fee be except a way of
keeping people from producing their own electricity from renewables?
273
SelfServingShite Jesse Britton Coleman
@jesse coleman - you don't have to pay the utility company for panels you
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suprabrew
In South America (?), a private foriegn company bought the local water utility, then
charged outrageous rates for water to the impoverished population and criminalized
the collection of rainwater. The people rose up and chased them out of town. We in
the west must stand up to these repeated abuses of human rights. theft of freedom
and privacy and economic exploitation.
224
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ParkSlopeSquirrel suprabrew
Are you thinking of the plot for "Quantum of Solace"?
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FrankTilghman ParkSlopeSquirrel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Cochabamba_protests
59
BlackjackX suprabrew
Is there a better way than making the kinds of ACTS committed by lil alec a
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Boredwiththeusa
First, a quibble: ALEC is an acronym, and as such needs to be in all caps
throughout the article.
Second, what insanity. They offer nothing, no solutions.
61
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BarnsleyBandit Boredwiththeusa
The accepted case usage of acronyms depends largely on the
pronunciation. Thus Nato but UN, Unicef but WHO. At least that was how it
was at Reuters and that is how it is in the Guardian style guide.
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Boredwiththeusa BarnsleyBandit
Then the Guardian style guide is wrong, and should be amended. I've never
seen NATO referenced in a newspaper in lower case, or UNICEF.
Acronyms should always be all caps to set them apart and let the reader
know they are in fact acronyms.
That is particularly true in this case, where the acronym is also a proper
name. We are not discussing Alec. He is not germaine to the subject of
ALEC.
32
vagues Boredwiththeusa
unicef write their own name in lower case, but it's all just about style.
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UNOINO
Love to see one of these ALEC creeps try to explain themselves surrounded by their
children.
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FoiledAgain UNOINO
My guess is that these creatures eat children.
128
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LakerFan UNOINO
I can envision ALEC members cooking and eating their own children. For
fun.
21
Zepp LakerFan
They don't cook them. If they did, they wouldn't be able to eat them alive.
15
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Jesse Britton Coleman
Corporate money goes in - pro corporate legislation comes out, that seems to be
how ALEC's bill mill works. The real kicker is that ALEC plies elected officials with
fancy parties and travel, funded by corporate donors, who then see laws passed that
help the bottom line. And it is all tax deductible... We need to tell the IRS to do their
job. Tax and lobbying laws aren't just for average people, ALEC has to follow them
too.
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bethegnat Jesse Britton Coleman
Corporate money goes in - pro corporate legislation comes out
Welcome to 21st Century governance.
29
Cusperi Jesse Britton Coleman
The only solution is to have a very wide political menu and some kind of
proportional representation system. Have many political groups including
7
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some ideological leftist political parties and an educated populace... If
necessary do what the Swiss do when they have referenda.
Corporate dictatorship needs a first past the post or similar system with as
few political parties as possible (all infiltrated and owned). A left v right
dichotomy (in which the 'left' is quickly appropriated) is not good.
FrankBlank1 Jesse Britton Coleman
Absolutely. ALEC is and has been committing tax fraud. They are not a
05 December 2013 3:14am
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Micklemoose
I am beginning to think that the only proper way to counter such acts as this is by
bringing back the guillotine.
119
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LakerFan Micklemoose
We must admit that there is a fraction of the human population that has a
congenital defect that results in dyspathy. A fraction are born without the
normal human emotions of love, empathy or concern for their society. It is a
pathology that needs therapy, beginning with what they lack: empathy.
As Friedrich Nietzsche astutely points out: we should take care when
battling with monsters lest we become one.
29
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LakerFan Micklemoose
That being said; when we remove conservatism, we automatically remove
99% of the world's evil.
54
samlebon23 Micklemoose
A laser guillotine will do the job. We are in the twenty first century, we need
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ellipsis10
.
As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially
freeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they
are using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers are
being penalised," he said
That's ridiculous. Solar generators are no different than, say, someone who lives in
the coal fields and is sitting on gas rights that they've leased, along with other
mineral rights, to, say, Duke Energy or CNX. The property owner "produces" the
product, and the energy company pays the infrastructure and distribution costs, the
terminal fees, and regulatory costs.
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vagues ellipsis10
You think that's *your* air you're breathing?
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leonorp ellipsis10
doubly ridiculous
if we install a $20K system, our property is assessed that additional $20K
as an improvement resulting in increased property tax (around 1.06%
$212/yr or $18/month)
11
Zepp leonorp
You might want to double check that. A lot of states offer assessment
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rubbishuk
They cost $45 a month to keep on the system. If they do not pay at least that
amount, then fire the freeloader.
No one should have to pay for these folks who abuse the system, why do I have to
pay for their hookup when it costs $45 to keep them connected.
Fire them, no ROI, they be fired.
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oisinwald rubbishuk
Let me guess: your name comes from the fact that everything you say is
rubbish--and you live in the UK.
89
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Dissident1 rubbishuk
They contribute more free electricity to the grid than that cost. That is why
such acts of desperation are been peddled, so if you want to fire freeloaders
then go ahead. Let's fire the CEOs of the various dirty energy companies
behind this alogical, amoral manoeuvre!
36
photosymbiont rubbishuk
Or more to the point, it's hard to control the flow of sunlight to Earth and
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CharlesSedley
Any excess power that solar panels produce goes back into the grid.
ALEC wants to punish power creators and reduce competition by what are
essentially micro utilities.
And yes, lets have a conversation about subsidies. Remembering that Keystone is
essentially an admission by the GOP that no they really can't "build that" without
government subsidies.
Nuclear subsidies? Lets start with Price-Andersen.
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leonorp CharlesSedley
the US military massively subsidises oil companies
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beachbear2012 leonorp
Aside from having 3 TRILLION dollars disappear from the pentagon and
secretary Rumsfeld say he would look into it and billions in cash packed on
pallets in Iraq just vanish and a thousand other cash scams, the military is
used to subsidize every contractor in any war zone, airlines to fly troops
back and forth, commissary and food producing companies in the us
(NGO's) clothing manufactures, weapons manufacturers, computer makers
(I won't even go there), and the list is endless. It's all about WAR and
supplying the "troops" who are "defending" us against a bunch of nomads
with pitchforks. In closing please no "patriotic" responses about treason
etc. If you want treason look at Washington or your own state legislator and
make your own informed decision.
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atolley beachbear2012
3 TRILLION dollars
That was most of the cost of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. It did not
"disappear". I think you mean BILLION.
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Connor Gibs
Ironic that ALEC's Eick claims to oppose "cookie cutter" regulations at national
level--their attempt to block national oversight on fracking and leave it up to the
states is for a simple reason: state regulators don't even begin to have the capacity
to keep tabs on oil and gas fracking operations in their states.
The irony is that ALEC's entire mission is to create cookie-cutter legislation, rolled
out by its legislative members and bolstered by the Koch-funded State Policy
Network, the web of think tanks in every state that bolstered ALEC's clean energy
attacks in Kansas, North Carolina and Ohio, a battle that is ongoing, led by ALEC
Board member Sen. Bill Seitz.
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Ron Jacobs
ALEC can take its profit motive and place it where no solar panel will collect any
energy.
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SanFranNative Ron Jacobs
Chuckling out loud. That doesn't happen often on the comments. :)
3
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AhBrightWings
How much more proof do we need that Big Business doesn't give a damn about
anyone or thing other than its profit margin before it gets through that this is a
ruinous way to live?
Way to demonstrate the mentality that those of us who care about environmental
issues decry. If anything, we should be offering massive tax breaks to those who
make an effort to be greener.
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Braveshopper AhBrightWings
Rather like Ed Snowden who showed us the utter depravity of our
governments. And the U.S. wants to put him away in a prison.
And will if they can get to him.
It's not about clean energy, truth, environment, health, poverty.
None of the above are money makers for the elite, rather the opposite.
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Micklemoose Braveshopper
You belittle the eco movement by linking it to that primadonna.
The destruction of our planet in exchange for the regular suspects building
another car elevator and the balance between liberty and security that must
be reached in a modern democracy have about as much in common as
ALEC does with Mother Teresa.
3
Dolores Bardoneschi Micklemoose
Lovely to see how you bought the official spin on Snowden...!!! It's "1984"
19
BarnsleyBandit
50
Show 2 more replies Last reply: 05 December 2013 12:55am
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This is ridiculous. Were I a US citizen in a region where I could live off-grid all year
round because of my own installed solar panels, I'd rather waste it than pay to sell it.
In fact I'd look into hooking up a neighour for free if I had excess!
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24b4Jeff BarnsleyBandit
We live in Virginia, one of the most environmentally unfriendly states in the
US. We've been planning on installing solar power, and plan to do just what
you suggest. In fact, the state's utility rate structure encourages just that,
because the first 300 kWh is charged at the most expensive rate. The more
one uses, the lower the price per kWh; what a way to encourage
conservation!
Seeing all the idiotic right wing comments on this article, I think I'll take it a
step further, and take my chain saw to the utility poles that cross my
property. Those blood suckers install their infrastructure on private land,
and pay no compensation for it. But I guess the ALEC supporters think
that's ok. Hypocrites!
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vagues 24b4Jeff
lets be neighbours
11
Corrections 24b4Jeff
It's called an easement. Easements are allowed for the public good, for
1
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bushtea
Freeriders? Why are people making profits off our utililties, which are given
privileges and benefits that other companies do not have?
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darquelourd bushtea
Yes, making use of Nature without compensating a Corporation for the
privilege is the height of FASCISM.
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Dolores Bardoneschi darquelourd
Why is it that most people don't get that? It was the first thing I thought
when I read the article.
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CharlesSedley darquelourd
Yes, making use of Nature without compensating a Corporation
for the privilege is the height of FASCISM.
The CEO of Nestle has stated that access to water is not a basic human
right.
7
northstar
Power companies compensate direct generators who return energy to the grid by
rolling their meters backward. This leads to the direct generator being billed for less
megawatts each month.
As an alternative to buying/installing solar panels on the roof of my house, I could
make investments that improve energy efficiency (e.g. new windows, a higher-
efficiency AC system, more insulation in the attic). This would also lead to me
buying less megawatts of power each month. Yet the cost of the infrastructure
required to deliver the reduced amount of energy to my house is still there. Would
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ALEC argue that this would make me a freeloader as well?
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24b4Jeff northstar
It depends upon whether you purchase the windows, AC system and
insulation from one of their contributors.
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Terribleblodge northstar
I've no doubt the anti-American fascist scum from ALEC have a plan to
pass legislation requiring all citizens to pay a monthly tithe to the power
companies. And more tithes to other corporations until Americans are
reduced to poverty. Oh wait ALEC has pretty much already accomplished
that last.
31
Corrections northstar
Look at the breakdown on your monthly bill. Surely you have a minimum
3
danielpfeiffer
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our
community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.
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Simon100
Looks like ALEC has a whistle blower in its midst. Love it! Keep writing about their
sliminess, Guardian. Everything that they do should put out there everyone to see
instead of hidden away.
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Braveshopper Simon100
Further, because you won't see it on the 6'o'clock news.
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Noah Pierson Braveshopper
EXACTLY. If the Guardian had it's own news tv show it would be the only
one I would watch.
6
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photosymbiont Braveshopper
The reason you won't see it on the American corporate media is that the
very same investment banks (JP Morgan, Barclays, etc.) that are heavily
invested in fossil-fuel-based electricity generation (the majority owners of
coal, natural gas, and power utility corporations, and associated service
industries like coal-hauling railroads) are ALSO majority owners of all major
new corporations in the U.S. This is true across the board, from the 'liberal'
MSNBC to the 'conservative' FOX News (the latter having a large Saudi
ownership profile, for example). They are not known for challenging their
master's PR lines, are they?
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darquelourd
There is no rational explanation for the amount of political influence regressive
groups like ALEC exert on our legislative process and on our laws other than that of
MONEY.
It's simply unconscionable that in an alleged "democracy" a group like this is able to
subvert science and rational debate - not to mention do real harm to the public
health.
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PracticeTrousers
Please stop referring to Paul Ryan as a 'budget guru.'
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NigelRG PracticeTrousers
Yup. Read Krugman in the New York Times for the correct description. It's
printable, barely.
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gjwarco PracticeTrousers
Or use the following alternative: Always use quotation marks anytime that
budget guru is mentioned. Example: "budget guru" Paul Ryan.
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panpipes gjwarco
Or better yet "professional douchebag Paul Ryan".
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Boredwiththeusa
There is no greater threat to the U.S. than ALEC. Al Qaeda can only dream of
having the destructive, corrosive power that ALEC has.
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CharlesSedley Boredwiththeusa
With their connections in in the oil industry I fear that the link is much
closer than we imagine.
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SparshShroff
they should be careful lest the people realize they are the satan's minions in
disguise.
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Portlander
"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders on
the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, all
the other non direct generation customers are being penalised,"
This is flawed logic. A miniscule portion of homeowners are likely to be net
exporters of energy. The vast majority will cover some or all of their peak daytime
loads. Some will be able to export energy during peak sunny times but will have to
draw power from the grid at other (non-sunny) times, so they won't be net exporters
of energy.
The really sickening thing about this is that utilities generate power from multiple
plants, prioritising more modern plants which are cheaper and less polluting. During
peak times is when they have to pull the crappy dirty expensive ones online to
satisfy demand, and that is exactly the times when solar panels can provide the
most power (ie. high air conditioning loads at the same time as highest sunshine)
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NigelRG Portlander
As a homeowner with solar panels, I can assure you that I d-mn well am
forced to pay a monthly fee for the infrastructure that I barely use, and the
utilities managed to rig the law so that I'm not paid if I generate surplus
power, on an annual basis.
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CharlesSedley NigelRG
As a homeowner with solar panels, I can assure you that I d-mn
well am forced to pay a monthly fee for the infrastructure that I
barely use,
Here here.
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fivemack NigelRG
Yes, you have to pay for the infrastructure to get electricity to you; maybe it
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vagues
Wow...this is surely fiction, amazing. Well done Guardian. ALEC - you appear to be
the worst people on earth.
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JohnManyjars vagues
It is a case where appearances match reality.
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NigelRG
Please give generously to the the American Loonie and Evildoer Corporation. In line
with our policy of eliminating government subsidies, all donations are tax-deductible.
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silat13
Since ALECK0CH does not like freeloaders, do they support national healthcare?
ALECK0CH is an enemy of the state.
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sovereignintegral silat13
generally speaking, ALEC is supportive of anything that disenfranchises us
ordinary folk
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MarjaE silat13
The oppose laws limiting pollution. They support "right to work" laws. They
support freeloading when it's in their interest.
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JohnManyjars MarjaE
3 reasons to vote 'conservative' in the USA, if you are 1) rich, 2) really
stupid, or, 3) a sociopath.
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SelfServingShite
what people need to do is eff the utility company and go OFF THE GRID.
there are two types of solar installation - off the grid costs a little more up front - but
then you have electrical independence, so to speak, and when everyone else is
suffering through power outages - you'll be sitting cosy!
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fivemack SelfServingShite
On the other hand, if you are off-grid in that sense you cannot get the power
company to pay you for electricity you generate: if you generate more
electricity than you can use or store, the rest is wasted.
(you could of course be on-grid in the conventional sense, using the grid as
backup for your solar panels and batteries at times when it's dark and the
batteries are flat; the fee ALEC is suggesting would only kick in if you tried
to feed electricity back to the grid)
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Matthew Moore fivemack
I don't know about "wasted." If the ability to generate power through
renewable, clean energy sources such as solar power isn't leveraged, then
that is a waste. Otherwise, the sun just beats down on a roof and generates
nothing but heat. That's the problem with ALEC, they'd rather see us
penalized for harnessing a natural resource in a clean way, because that
doesn't fatten the wallets of their corporate members. The solar panel
industry apparently need better lobbyists. Alternatively, lawmakers could
pass legislation based upon reason and the collective good and not rely on
lobbyists at all, but that's crazy talk.
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photosymbiont SelfServingShite
You'll need to buy and maintain a huge battery bank, and replace it on an
ongoing basis. It'd be better (more energy-cost efficient) to have a local
energy storage center serving your whole community - which means, you
and 100,000 of your best friends in your locale can all go off-the-grid
TOGETHER, saving lots of money (economies of scale in energy storage)
while eliminating external control by fossil fuel-based utilities and their
bankster investors.
Basically, everyone puts solar panels on their roofs and feeds that power to
a township-sized energy storage/distribution center, which feeds it back to
everyone (at night, when the sun is down, or when the wind isn't blowing).
You could do this with a village in Africa of 200 homes, as well, no problem.
Set up mesh-networked telecommunications on top of each house while
you're at it, and everyone can talk to each other without relying on any
external agency.
This by the way is how stand-alone military outfits operate these days,
ahem. But it can work for anyone!
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FoiledAgain
I was considering building a solar array, but to stay on the good side of the depraved
individuals of ALEC, I'm going to build a nuclear-powered hog farm.
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Cvillerealist
There is some irony here- to have liberals taking the side of people who use the
electric grid but don't want to help pay for it, as opposed to people who don't have
the resources or facilities to have solar panels who do pay for it thru electric rates. It
would be like people in Britain who buy private health insurance saying they don't
want to pay any taxes toward the NHS
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Zepp Cvillerealist
They're still paying for it. They have to shell out about $35-$50 a month just
to maintain connection to the grid.
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Marcus Marik Cvillerealist
"Realist" LOL! This spouting of nonsensical talking points repeatedly
refuted above is about the least "realist" approach imaginable.
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JohnManyjars Cvillerealist
I DO pay monthly for the privilege of being 'on the grid', dolt. What is
annoying is that 'folks' like you would have me pay even more for the
'privilege' of selling energy back to the utility, which they then sell to
someone else!
As I stated earlier, 'conservatives' have been on the wrong side of pretty
much every matter of importance in history, and this is no exception.
Now back to licking the boots of your corporate masters, there's a good lad.
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vagues
Perhaps they just dropped the first word?
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Terribleblodge
As you can see there is good reason that Americans are trying to have this ALEC
terror group banned in our country.
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gjwarco
I have a few more suggestions for ALEC.
1. Charge a fee to anyone who uses a bicycle or walks - they're not buying any fuel.
2. Charge a fee to anyone who does not use a toll road. The infrastructure is there,
but certain freeloaders are not using it.
3. Charge a fee to anyone who collects rainwater for use in their garden. These
freeloaders should be required to use tap water (from an existing infrastructure).
4. Charge a fee to anyone who grows their own food. Again, the non-use of an
infrastructure.
I guess that I could come up with a few more, but I don't seem to be as imaginative
as ALEC.
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Cvillerealist gjwarco
You don't understand the difference between public infrastructure (i.e. a
public good) vs private infrastructure (to which the community has no
obligation to contribute to)
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sovereignintegral gjwarco
give them time. they ARE working on it, believe me.
hopefully, we will,collectively, be ready.
long over due for us to get off our butts and activate our brains.
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Zepp Cvillerealist
The power generators in California are privatized. It's what lead to the
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BlackjackX
The same peoples being discussed as lil alec' in the article, are the People Raping
the people, workers, and retirees of Detroit! And their next target(s), are likely to be
You!
A nation wide Strike is Needed; Best being a rolling strike. You can call it a Wave
Strike! A Strike of the Fans of America for Fair and Equable Shares, Opportunity,
Education Health and Justice!
Its not happening Today! The 1% is doing a huge job of stealing! We're seeing
Billion Dollar Wages! And a Major City being Robbed using corrupt people in 'Charge'
to loot the City of Detroit, and the State of Michigan Peoples! Laws of the State are
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being Trashed in this Bankruptcy by a RICO Law ABUSING GANG OF
CONSPIRATORS!
And! There is federal aid being provided this Gang! Understand Your in the Plan to
be looted! Actions are required!
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blood1
The interesting part of the Arizona kerfuffle is that Corporate AZ has built a huge
solar grid in Casa Grande and it has put out news that they have actually started or
proved that they have technology that stores excess solar power.
If that can be scaled down to the home level - no wonder that Corporate American
via the power grid would be nervous...if the process works it can be scaled down
and Corporate $$$ and power brokers would be huge losers.
What amazes me about ALEC is that the GOP admit by joining that they are
essentially lackey's for corporations - and are unable to think for themselves. We
need to remember that ALEC is run via Corporations and Foundations - most
recently: Coors pays $50K/ year and Bradley Foundation $75K / yr.
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TyroneBHorneigh blood1
Not rewarding solar in a place like Arizona is like not using geothermal in
places like Iceland.
The potential energy is right there, local, abundant and virtually
inexhaustible.
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fivemack blood1
I'm always amazed how cheap lobbying is; you would at least hope that
they charge Coors tens of millions rather than tens of thousands. If only I
could think of something that would profit a group of ten of my friends to the
tune of more than $50k per year ...
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Dissident1 blood1
When the automobile was first introduced, more powerful stagecoach and
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ahtman
as Americans see the practical applications of ALEC law policy in action, the more
they see it for what it really is. Power of the rich over the poor(subjugation)..a part of
human nature that needs looking after. The people who promote these policies and
laws are not he virtuous part of ourselves. If the rich are unhappy with the way they
are treated, try being gracious for once. GRACE people. you give it you, get it.
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MiltonWiltmellow
That would leave oversight of an industry that has to date fracked 2m
wells in 20 states to a patchwork of local authorities that have vastly
different standards of environmental protection.
The model bill would explicitly bar the EPA from shutting down any oil or
gas well or facility in any of them, limiting the agency's capacity to
enforce the clean water and clean air acts.
Saboteurs!
In exchange for mere gold these craven creatures destroy all that is good.
May they rot in the hell they bring.
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ahtman
dreadful english just took my meds my apologies
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hawkwoman
You can see how far the corporate plutocracy has come and how secure it feels
when one of its most notorious agencies has the unmitigated balls to try stuff like
this.
As the Black Widow in the eponymous film said, "The trick to anything is knowing
when to stop."
Hopefully, their new tactics show that ALEC really doesn't know when to stop - and
that will be its undoing.
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Jeffrey_Harrison
Jeeze, I get tired of people lying. I've lived across the US and every utility - gas,
electric, etc - has a fixed cost in your billing that pays for the infrastructure. My
current electric company charges me $16.50/mo for their infrastructure even if I use
no electricity. This "free ride" claim is purely made up and a barefaced lie.
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TyroneBHorneigh Jeffrey_Harrison
Spot on Jeffrey.
Thank-You for pointing that fact out. Any number of millions of American
consumers can look at their monthly bills and see that charge. ALEC's
argument is nonsense.
Different corporations charge a sum whether you use a little, a lot or
absolutely none at all.
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Corrections Jeffrey_Harrison
That's for the INCOMING infrastructure. Obviously an OUTGOING
infrastructure would be additional. What needs to be clear is the true cost
for that, which is why utility boards exist - to keep everyone honest. I have
no idea if $5/month is fair or not, but I understand that additional
infrastructure needs to be paid for. If you're selling back, say, $75/month,
why would you expect your neighbors to subsidize the $5/month cost that
caused?
I just want total transparency on the financials before making a decision on
who should pay for what.
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Jeffrey_Harrison Corrections
Actually, the only outgoing infrastructure in question here is the meter that
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pfarnsworth
Greedy aholes....
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FrancisHumboldt
my question is: HOWCOME ALL OF YOU COMMENTERS AREN'T TALKING AND
NOT ACTING!!! Those abroad, this concerns you too since this is a global violation.
3
northstar FrancisHumboldt
Actually, those of us posting from Minnesota already have. Or at least our
state legislators did, when they addressed this issue by passing a law this
year that requires the big generators to pay the smaller direct generators
rates for grid-returned energy that better reflect the true value of that solar
energy to the big generators (something that has already been implemented
on a smaller scale in municipalities like Austin, Texas).
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Corrections northstar
Exactly. Transparency of the actual financial data is the first requirement to
set up a fair system.
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Hermione Goldman FrancisHumboldt
Excellent point Frances, what action are you taking?
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robingeorge
I recently had a person selling sola panels at my door. I have eight on my roof to
heat our pool they have worked for twenty years, heating from April until November.
On reading the fine print if your roof is in the sun and can generate power for the
duration of the sun light they come and if you singe up, it's a 30 year contract.
However on further research over the internet I found the company basically sells on
the contracts in bundles to third party investors. Just like the debacle with the
mortgage industry. Nothing has been learnt from that. I declined but still they knock.
In California and other sunny States, it's a good thing.
I will wait until Ikea brings in sola panels and have them install and pay for them
outright. Thats why the Republican agenda does not want you to go it alone leaving
nothing for them to bundle and sell on for inflated profits. Why are we not making
panels here in the US? Why does China have the advantages of cheep labour and
shipping? The government should be turning Detroit or other depressed cites into
Sola factories, the great work force is there having built cars for years.
Also large buildings in sunny state should be made to use smart glass to generate
power. In Las Vargas they should be made mandatory.
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ColoradoJack
The basic problem is that we in the US have the most corrupt political system on
the planet. Almost Every politician from Obama on down in both major parties has
been bought by the big money interests.
It is absurd that in America, running for President costs upwards of a billion dollars,
and Senators and Congressmen and Governors and state legislators cost are
proportional. That means that most of all politicians and officials time is spent
collecting the legalized bribery that the corrupt Supreme Court has legalized. In
exchange for this loot and the promise of lucrative lobby jobs and book deals and
speaking fees as compensation after the fact, these crooks in power agree to do the
bidding of the super rich.
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John Dagne
You should use solar to leave the grid not tie into it.
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NigelRG John Dagne
Don't I wish, but with a system like mine, with one inverter per panel, it
would be fiendishly complicated. It's easier to pay the robber baron utilities
to exchange power with them.
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fivemack NigelRG
After all, even if they buy your surplus electricity at a cent per kilowatt-hour,
that's a cent you wouldn't otherwise be getting.
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JohnManyjars John Dagne
It would be difficult during the winter months, even in sunny Southern CA.
However, the surplus I generate during the summertime balances slightly in
my favor overall. I am grateful for the use of the electrical grid (especially in
case of trouble with my inverter) and am happy to pay fees for that, but for
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these Republican f*^ktards to ask me to pay in excess of what I already do
for the connection fees...grrrrr....
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Gerald Sobel
Google and Facebook can rot in hell too.
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TyroneBHorneigh
Domestic terrorists.
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leftcoastforever TyroneBHorneigh
Spot on.
Absolutely agree.
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86b99a
Republican budget guru
PLEASE STOP calling him a guru. he is nothing more than a paid lobbyist for think
tanks.
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JohnManyjars 86b99a
How about 'Not-think' tanks, or 'mouth-breather' tanks?
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babymamaboy
"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders on
the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, all
the other non direct generation customers are being penalised," he said.
Yes! Let's take a long look at all ALEC supporters and asses how much they pay for
using infrastructure. They won't even have to leave their own convention to find all
the freeloaders they can handle.
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Xoxarle
Also, I can reveal, they are proposing:
- a new sloth tax on people who aren't either CEOs or Billionaires
- repeal of the child labor laws\
- paid overtime to be a felony
- lowering of the minimum wage
- a new not-sufficiently-polluting tax on non-gasoline powered lawnmowers and
automobiles
- action to melt the remaining glaciers and polar ice caps
- declaring war on Switzerland (for flirting with caps on CEO pay via referenda)
- [add more batshit insane nonsense as appropriate]
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JohnManyjars Xoxarle
Except the committed rightwing dolt views this as entirely sane.
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Corrections
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Prev Next
Comments for this discussion are now closed.
1 2 3 5
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The Arizona fee description is a bit misleading:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/arizona-regulators-impose-power-grid-
fees-for-solar-roofs.html
Arizona Public is required to buy solar power from customers with rooftop
panels, and the commission agreed with its argument that the policy
unfairly shifts some of the utilitys costs to people without panels.
iow, the fee is NOT about installing and using solar power, but selling the excess to the
power company.
Power companies have to as much infrastructure (power plants) as needed for peak
demand, or there will be brownouts and blackouts. Homeowner solar panels only
work when the sun's out, they're certainly more fragile than than a commercial power
plant, and their maintenance and replacement (as needed) is not up to the power
company. So how much can they really depend on them as a reliable source?
Generating one's own power for one's own use is fine, but selling excess at some
arbitrary price is problematical. On sunny days, they're ALL selling. On cloudy days,
and at night, the power company has to make up the difference - which means the
infrastructure investment doesn't decrease.
Also...does an ordinary homeowner pay the same amount as a "family farmer" who
puts solar panels all over his/her land?
I'd want to see the financials before deciding if $5/month is reasonable or not.
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Marcus Marik Corrections
"Generating one's own power for one's own use is fine, but selling excess at
some arbitrary price is problematical."
How come it's fine and dandy for the power company to customers the rate
set by the commission, but the exact same rate becomes "an arbitrary
price" when they're paying it to another power producer?
"Homeowner solar panels only work when the sun's out, they're certainly
more fragile than than a commercial power plant, and their maintenance and
replacement (as needed) is not up to the power company."
In other words, the power company is getting extra power without making an
extra capital investment. This "burdens" them how, exactly?
"So how much can they really depend on them as a reliable source?"
Someone with failed solar panels is equivalent to someone who never
installed any in the first place. Should the latter also have to pay the power
company an extra charge? (Maybe I should delete that comment;;
somebody from ALEC might read it and add it to their List Of Evil Ideas).
"On sunny days, they're ALL selling. On cloudy days, and at night, the
power company has to make up the difference - which means the
infrastructure investment doesn't decrease."
The peak demand for electricity is when the air conditioners are cranked up
(i.e. sunny days). A system that automatically feeds power into the grid
under those conditions *relieves* the infrastructure strain -- if anything, the
power company should be paying an extra surcharge to the solar panel
owner.
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Dissident1 Marcus Marik
Don't burden $5 monthly 'corrections' with too much logic. $5...
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JohnManyjars Corrections
We get it 'corrections', your concern-trolling pretty much outs you as a sock
puppet. Run along now.
4
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ALEC Calls For Penalties On 'Freerider' Homeowners in Assault On Clean Energy - The Guardian

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