--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, krishna joshi <snjoshy@...

> wrote:
#33787 dt. Sep 15, 2011
Re: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Mr Kaul,

You can't make out who I am , if you have illusions of imaginary enemies!
You look like Don-Quixote fighting a Wind-mill.

I am neither interested in AryaBhata theories and fights that you had
with Srinad and Co. nor your Calendar business.

What a Kaul is and what is not everybody knows.. right from traitors to
the womanizers to the back-stabbers to what not.. Do not dig history of
Kauls..
You yourself may get ashamed ( if you still have some) from it !

Shree


From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Arun Upadhyay <arunupadhyay30@...>; HinduCalendar@yahoogroups.com; akandabaratam
<akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com>; asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com; sunil nair
<astro_tellerkerala@...>; Dr Bhudia Kutch Science Foundation <kutchsciencefoundation@...>; Prashant
Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@...>; World Brahman Federation Canada
<worldbrahmanfederation.canada@...>; sastry.bvk@...; mukti_marg@yahoogroups.com; mail@...;
Gayatri Devi Vasudev <gayatridevivasudev@...>; dr.p.v.vartak <info@...>; GANTA DIWAKAR
<hariom4959@...>; Sanjay Rath <guruji@...>; Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@...>; Gopal Goel
<gkgoel1937@...>; neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@...>; S. Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@...>; Pandit Siva
Prasad Tata <sptata@...>; vedic_research_institute
<vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com>; scienceofastrology@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2011 8:59 PM
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Shri who-so-ever you are!
Jai Shri Ram!
<I am definitely not a Kaul, ( if you are interested in my name)>
I know you could not be that lucky! Anyway, your style of writing resembles a
gentleman who was sure till yesterday that Arybhata was born in Kerala and
had advocated some so called nirayana Rashichakra!
Jai Shri Ram!
A K Kaul
Re: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Mr Kaul,

Stop this circus and hypocracy.. better join some political party , who lives
on lies
and only lies.. that is the best fit for you.

I am definitely not a Kaul, ( if you are interested in my name)

I know your depth in Vedic literature and knowledge.. If you have some
shame
still left, go and study them.. not with the view to market your Panchanga
but
to see how the learned Rishis saw the divine in Pancha Bhoothas and
their
environ..We have deviated very much from it and now people like you are
trying to fit whatever fits your interest into Vedas.

Your North Indian theory is again a bull-shit.. but as a politician, you can't
live
without it.. If you are a genuine scholar, why should I worry about your
origin ?
Whether you are in north , south or anywhere, does that matter to me ?

Seems you have not left your lobbying habit even at this age ! the bad
habits
rarely die , isn't it ?

regards
Shree




From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Arun Upadhyay <arunupadhyay30@...>; asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com; sunil nair
<astro_tellerkerala@...>; Dr Bhudia Kutch Science Foundation <kutchsciencefoundation@...>; Prashant
Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@...>; World Brahman Federation Canada
<worldbrahmanfederation.canada@...>; sastry.bvk@...;mukti_marg@yahoogroups.com; mail@...; Gayatri
Devi Vasudev <gayatridevivasudev@...>; dr.p.v.vartak <info@...>; GANTA DIWAKAR <hariom4959@...>;
Sanjay Rath <guruji@...>; Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@...>; Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...>; neelam
gupta <neelamgupta07@...>; S. Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@...>; Pandit Siva Prasad Tata <sptata@...>;
vedic_research_institute
<vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com>; scienceofastrology@yahoogroups.com; sunil
<sunil_bhattacharjya@...>; hinducalendar <hinducalendar@yahoogroups.com>; Mukti_Marg@...;
akandabaratam <akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2011 12:36 AM
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Shri Krishna Joshi ji,
Jai Shri Ram!
You have said, "I have only stated that Vishnu and Rudra are later day
additions to the Vedic system. It is very much evident from the
insignificant mentioning of them" but at the same time
you want us to believe that "the Rashis of Vamana puraana are of
Vedic origin" in spite of the fact that there is no mention of any Mesha,
Vrisha etc.Rashi in any of the Vedas!
Do you mean to say that Vamana Purana was created before the Sukta
(hymn) number 154 of the Very first Mandala of the Rig Veda was compiled
by the Seers?
Why can't you talk some sense?
< If Vedic Astrologers ( in your view ) are fooling the public with Rashis, you
are trying to fool them with a Vedic Panchnaga ( not even sure there was a
Panchnaga at that
time ) giving all the festivities of Puranic origin as Vedic one ! >
You are again prevaricating, like all the "Vedic astrologers" in spite of
claiming that you are not a Vedic astrologer!
Pl. read my posts about the criteria of festivals again, which state clearly and
quite unambiguously, "If we have to choose Mesha etc. Rashis as a necessary
evil, it is better to choose the lesser of two evils i.e. the so called sayana
Rashichakra instead of the so called nirayana rashichakra, since the latter
has been talked about in the Puranas and the siddhantas though they are
conspicuous by their absence from the Vedas".
So it is for the general public to decide as to who is fooling whom.
<SO , Krishna, depicted in Bhagawatha and Mahabhaaratha is a vedic deity for
you..>
Bhagwaan Krishna and Bhagwaan Rama are incarnations of Vishnu, but
they are deities of post Vedic period, since we do not find any mention of
them in the Vedas. As such, it is your aversion towards anything from
Northern India that is making you suspicious about everything that is
supposed to have originated there.
Which means that according to you, it is not Mesha etc.
Rashis but Vishnu and Rudra that "are later day
additions to the Vedic system"!

<When it suits you everything is in Veda ( though there are no indications to
show it ) - like Krishna, Naaraayana etc.. But Brihaspathi is
not there , or Rashis are not there ?>
Again, you are deliberately imputing such statements to me as have never
been made even inadvertently!
Naarayana is very much a Vedic deity, but I have never said Bhagwaan
Krishna is also indicated in the Vedas. Similarly, in spite of saying that you
are not a Vedic astrologer, you want everybody to believe that the Brihaspati
(Brahamanaspatih!), one of the most respected deities of the Vedas, is the
same inanimate wandering planet that is being bombarded by one or the other
comet every moment of its life! Why are you stooping so low, if you are not a
Vedic astrologer?
Mesha etc. Rashis are definitely absent from the Vedic lore and you cannot
create them now there howsoever hard you may try just to please some of your
Vedic astrologer friends!
< I see your frustrations.. So don't respond back..It will save bandwidth and
time for me.>
I see your frustrations.. So don't respond back..It will save
bandwidth and time for me.
Jai Shri Ram!
A K Kaul
PS
BTW, you sign your name as Shree, whereas your id is "krishna
joshi" with "snjoshy@..." as email address!
What is your real name?
AKK

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, krishna joshi <snjoshy@...> wrote:
Re: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Mr. Kaul,

Why do you lie in the name of Shree Rama ?

My original mail is there in the thread and see ( if you could see )
whether
I have said "Naraayana or Rudra is never mentioned there" !

I have only stated that Vishnu and Rudra are later day additions to the
Vedic
system.It is very much evident from the insignificant mentioning of them
in RgVeda itself !

Now on --"Jaldi kaa kaam shaitaan ka hota hai!And you appear to be a
......"

This is a perfect description of you -- both in action and words you have
proven it..
Your hurried response may a times were a confusion for me.. now it is
clear. Now
I got your ancestry!.

Hope the Shaitaan stops preaching others !

When it suits you everything is in Veda ( though there are no indications
to show it )
- like Krishna, Naaraayana etc.. But Brihaspathi is not there , or Rashis are
not there ?

SO , Krishna, depicted in Bhagawatha and Mahabhaaratha is a vedic deity
for you..
But the Rashis of Vamana puraana are of Greek origin for you !

Our current day politicians seem to be less crooked and hypocritic than
you and may
have many things to learn from you !

If Vedic Astrologers ( in your view ) are fooling the public with Rashis, you
are trying
to fool them with a Vedic Panchnaga ( not even sure there was a
Panchnaga at that
time ) giving all the festivities of Puranic origin as Vedic one !

Is it a devil preaching Bible ?

I see your frustrations.. So don't respond back..It will save bandwidth and
time for me.

Shree

From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: HinduCalendar@yahoogroups.com; akandabaratam
<akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com>; asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com; sunil nair
<astro_tellerkerala@...>; Arun Upadhyay <arunupadhyay30@...>; Dr Bhudia Kutch Science Foundation
<kutchsciencefoundation@...>; Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@...>; World Brahman Federation
Canada <worldbrahmanfederation.canada@...>; sastry.bvk@...; mukti_marg@yahoogroups.com;
mail@...; Gayatri Devi Vasudev <gayatridevivasudev@...>; dr.p.v.vartak <info@...>; GANTA DIWAKAR
<hariom4959@...>; Sanjay Rath <guruji@...>; Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@...>; Gopal Goel
<gkgoel1937@...>; neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@...>; S. Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@...>; Pandit Siva
Prasad Tata <sptata@...>; vedic_research_institute <vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 12 September 2011 8:37 PM
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Shri Krishna Joshiji,
Jai Shri Ram!

< Again, you have not been able to show Rudradhyaaya here..>
Kindly show the message where I have said that I was talking of
Rudradhyaya in that context in the Rigveda. You have said, " Naraayana or
Rudra is never mentioned there" and I was contradicting your statement
there!
Though you claim not to be a Vedic astrologer, but you are
changing your statements and colours exactly like Vedic
astrologers do!
< You said about Naarayana in RgVeda.. Show me that first , before your
usual, meaningless ramblings.>
Jaldi kaa kaam shaitaan ka hota hai!And you appear to be a ......
<The minimal references of Rudra and Vishnu in the RgVeda is attributed as
a later day addition
by many scholars..>
Do you mean to say that Sukta 154 of the very First Mandala of the Rigveda,
which is talking about Vishnu, was an addition after all the mandalas had
been "revealed"?
<You are fighting for the festivities on a right time line based on Vedaas !
I am questioning the very presence of these festivities, related to different
deities at the Vedic Time.. and trying to understand your foolishness in
attributing Vedic timelines to the practices that have very less references
in Vedic literature..>
This is the stand usually taken by moderators of a particular jyotisha forum,
who are mostly from Kerala! It is their stand that the deities like Bhagwaan
Ram and Bhagwaan Krishna etc. are "inventions" of a much later date by
North Indians!
According to those moderators of that jyotisha forum, even the Vedas are
not sacrosanct because they are supposed to have been "compiled" outside
Kerala!
It appears you are working either as their chamchaa or under some false id
because if you are a Joshi really and that also with Krishna as the first name,
as you claim to be, you would never have shown such a disrespect like "I am
questioning the very presence of these festivities"!
Pl. do reveal your real intentions and also real identity!
Jai Shri Ram!
A K Kaul

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, krishna joshi <snjoshy@...> wrote:
Re: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Mr Kaul..

Again, you have not been able to show Rudradhyaaya here..

You said about Naarayana in RgVeda.. Show me that first , before your
usual, meaningless ramblings.

The minimal references of Rudra and Vishnu in the RgVeda is attributed as
a later day addition
by many scholars.. If you have time, pls. read the library at Mahirishu
institute to get more on this.

If you have some experience with the Vedic Accent, try to see how these
two are different from other
parts..

Rest of your mail is what you are! Do not waste the space here and time
of others, by explaining what you are !

You are figting for the festivities on a right time line based on Vedaas ! I
am questioning the very presence of these festivities, related to different
deities at the Vedic Time.. and trying to understand your foolishness in
attributing Vedic timelines to the practices that have very less references
in Vedic literature..

regards
Shree


From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Arun Upadhyay <arunupadhyay30@...>; HinduCalendar@yahoogroups.com; akandabaratam
<akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com>;asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com; sunil nair
<astro_tellerkerala@...>; Dr Bhudia Kutch Science Foundation <kutchsciencefoundation@...>; Prashant
Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@...>; World Brahman Federation Canada
<worldbrahmanfederation.canada@...>; sastry.bvk@...;mukti_marg@yahoogroups.com; mail@...; Gayatri
Devi Vasudev <gayatridevivasudev@...>; dr.p.v.vartak <info@...>; GANTA DIWAKAR <hariom4959@...>;
Sanjay Rath <guruji@...>; Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@...>; Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...>; neelam
gupta <neelamgupta07@...>; S. Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@...>; Pandit Siva Prasad Tata <sptata@...>;
vedic_research_institute
<vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com>; scienceofastrology@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 11 September 2011 4:48 PM
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Shri Krishna Joshiji,
Jai Shri Ram!
< Did I say that the Vedas do not have reference to these deities ? The opinion
that these are the additions at a later phase of Vedic
literature, is shared by many scholars.>
Your original statement is, As far as my knowledge goes there is only reference
to Brhman in Vedas and gods like Agni, Varuna and Vaayu. The addition of
Rudra or Vishnu is a later day phenomenon, I believe. Naraayana , however
you twist , indicates only one possible derivation - Naraan Ayana - Path of
Nara.. " And then you have closed your post with the comments, "For
example, the Purusha Sooktha , linked to RgVeda, has reference only to
Brhma.. Naraayana or Rudra is never mentioned there."
Obviously, Rigveda being the oldest Veda, and the Sukta regarding Vishnu
being in the very first Mandala itself means that Vishnu was a deity recognized
and worshiped by the Rig-Vedic seers!
Similarly, the prayers to Rudra in the very first Mandala, and also the mention
of the famous Maha-mrityunjaya mantra itself too proves the same thing that
Rudra too is/was very much a Vedic deity---and they were not "additions at a
later phase".
Or do you mean to say that the first Manadala of the Rigveda itself is "an
addition at a later phase of the Vedic literature"?
< At the same time, you are running away from showing Naarayana in the
hymns of RgVeda. looks like you are fabricating another
RgVeda for it !>
Do you mean to say that the Rigveda Samhita, with the commentary by
Acharya Sayana, is a fabrication? Well, I can expect any thing from neem-
haakeems or neem-mullahs--like you! You must have heard the famous
saying neem hakeem khatrai jaan, neem mullah khatrai imaan
What I have quoted about Vishnu and Rudra from the Rigveda was just from
my memory. There are several other mantras about both the deities not only
in the RV but in the other Vedas too. Pl. bear with me for some time to give
you references about Narayana in the Vedas. In the meantime, pl. correct
yourself regarding the meaning of that term since this is what the Manusmriti
has said about the meaning of the word Narayana in 1/10








I hope you will be able to translate it yourself.
< I am neither a Vedic astrologer nor missionary funded calendar maker. So,
your comments are wasted.>
I am glad to hear that you are not a Vedic astrologer. And since I have elicited
this information from you, obviously, my comments are not wasted!
Regarding being a "missionary funded calendar maker", it is clear that you
consider anybody who wants to put the derailed Vedic calendar back on the
right track to be funded by some missionary!
I wish I had some "missionary support" for the same, because I cannot expect
any support from pseudo-scholars like you! In any case, pl. leave it to
the chamchaas of the moderators of a particular jytosiha forum to make such
allegations, especially since you are not a Vedic astrologer!
BTW, why don't you go through the documents "Rashis & Jyotish" and
"Criteria for festivals" and see it for yourself as to whether you are following
the correct gamut of the Vedic festivals by going by the decrees of "almighty"
Lahiriwalas? Maybe you will be able to see the mote your own eye after
reading those articles!
Jai Shri Ram!
A K Kaul
--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, krishna joshi <snjoshy@...> wrote:

Re: [JyotishGroup] Rudra and Maha-mrityunjaya Mantra in the Rigveda!

Mr kaul,

You seem to be posing like everything but not capable of understanding
my statement.

Did I say that the Vedas do not have reference to these deities ? The
opinion that these
are the additions at a later phase of Vedic literature, is shared by many
scholars.

Thats' why we have only a few instances where these deities are invoked
in RgVeda.
The bulk of it being on Agni, Adithya, Soma-pavana and Maruth etc.

But you have proved what you are - Nirvidya( not able to understand
others statements )
and Ahankari.

At the same time, you are running away from showing Naarayana in the
hymns of RgVeda.
looks like you are fabricating another RgVeda for it !

Now , coming to Maha Mrithyunjaya - you donot even seem to know that
it is part of Rudradhyaya
and not part of Rg Veda directly. The reference you have given for Rudra
talks only about the sacred
hymns that are used during Deha shuddhi - that is a part of
Rudradhyaaya too.

I am neither a Vedic astrologer nor missionary funded calendar maker.
So, your comments are wasted.

Hope you learn some more on this to talk to me..

regards
Shree