An interview with His Holiness

Sir Paul Dukes and M. Philippe Lavastine

The following is an account by Dr. T.M.P. Mahadevan, University Professor of Philosophy,
of the interview which Sir Paul Dukes and M. Philippe Lavastine had with is oliness Sri
!agadguru Sankaracharya of "anchi "a#akoti Peetha# on $ednesday, %ebruary &', ()*+.
, -ritish publicist and a %rench savant had an interview with is oliness Sri
Sankaracharya of "anchi "a#akoti Peetha# on $ednesday, %ebruary &'. The ti#e fi.ed
for the interview was ) p.#. Sir Paul Dukes arrived at is oliness/ 0a#p at
Theagarayanagar at +123 p.#. e was conducted to the place of the interview, which was
an open space, beneath a row or pal#s. There was a stack of hay in the center of which was
placed a wooden plank which was to serve as a seat of is oliness. Struck by this, for hi#
an unusual situation, Sir Paul re#arked that this was a ro#antic setting for the new
e.perience he was looking forward to. Presently, the %rench#an, M. Philippe Lavastine,
arrived escorted #oved at the prospect of #eeting a great, scholar1saint.
4t was a little past nine. 5ur attention was drawn to the direction fro# where a #ild
torchlight flashed. is oliness was co#ing slowly, with those unselfconscious steps which
are uni6uely his. ,bout half a do7en devotees who were following hi# stepped back, as is
oliness sat on the wooden plan, asking the group that was waiting for hi# to sit down, by
graceful gesture. The two guests sat at a short distance fro# is oliness, with the
interpreter in between. The stage was set for the interview.
Sir Paul Dukes was the first to be introduced, as the author of two books whose titles are 8
9The Unending :uest9 and ;<oga for the $estern $orld9. is oliness asked Sir Paul as to
what he #eant by 9the unending 6uest/. The =nglish#an said that in his own case, the 6uest
had not ended yet. 4n the case of the average $estern, he added, it is thought that the 6uest
ends once a particular 0hurch was accepted. Sir Paul/s view was that this was not so.
=.plaining the #eaning of the e.pression 9unending 6uest9, is oliness observed8
94f the 6uest is e.ternal, their would be o end to it. 4t would be like the 6uest after the
hori7on1a hallucination. 4f the 6uest is inward, then it would end with the discovery of the
true Self. 4n a sense, even this latter 6uest #ay be said to be unending in that its ob>ect is
infinite9.
The %rench#an was now introduced as one interested in the study of our te#ple and the
Puranas, in connection with his researches into the institution of kingship. Mr. M. Lavastine
hi#self e.plained what his central proble# was. 4n ancient ti#es, the te#poral and the
spiritual were united in the institution of kingship. There was no division of the secular
fro# the sacred. Probably, #ost of the ills of the #odern world are traceable to this division
which now obtains. The %rench scholar thought that a study of the history of the South
4ndian te#ples #ust throw light on the 6uest of the relation between te#poral power and
spirituality.
is oliness en6uired if M. Lavastine had heard of the say. 9raa>aa dhar#asya kaarana#1 .
?The king is responsible for dhar#a@. ,s is oliness was giving illu#inating e.planation
of this saying, the two visitors were observed #oving close to hi#, with their attention
fi.ed on every word of is. ,lthough is oliness was speaking in Ta#il, he used a
profusion of =nglish words to help the interpreter in his task, and also the visitors in their
understanding of hi#. Aot accusto#ed to s6uatting, the western visitors were assu#ing all
sorts of awkward postures. The interpreter touched the knees of the %rench#an, in order to
indicate that he could fold his legs. 5bserving this, is oliness told the interpreter that
there is no need for this restraint. 4t was difficult for the average $esterner to s6uat. The
way in which the visitors sat did not #atter. They were like children in this respect. $hy
retrain the#B ow gracious of is oliness to have #ade this observationC 4s this not a true
sign of a Mahat#aB
=.plaining the above Sanskrit saying, is oliness said8 94t is natural that #an should seek
to satisfy his wants like hunger, thirst and a place to rest. There are duties which an
individual has towards hi#self, the social group and the nation. 5rdinarily, the perfor#ance
of these duties re#ains on the level of satisfying the creaturely wants. -ut there is a way of
perfor#ing these duties which will spiritually elevate everyone concerned. That is dhar#a.
,nd it is the duty of the king or the State to see that the citi7ens are provided with every
opportunity for spiritual growth and progress. That is the #eaning of the saying, dhar#a.
,nd it is the duty of the king or the State to see that the citi7ens are provided with every
opportunity for spiritual growth and progress. That is the #eaning of the saying, ra>a
dhar#asya kaarana#9.
The %rench#an said that he wanted to study Sanskrit in the traditional 4ndian way, directly
fro# a teacher, without the aid of books. is oliness e.pressed his appreciation of this
wish and re#arked8 9=ven in 4ndia, that tradition has all but disappeared. The old way was
not to confuse the ability to read and write with scholarship. =ven the greater scholars did
not know how to read and write9. ere, one of the visitors cited the instance of Sri
Da#akrishna Para#aha#sa who could not even sign his na#e properly in -engali. is
oliness continued, 94 a# referring to even secular scholars. $riting was the special art of
a s#all class of people called kanakkars. They were good calligraphers. -ut the rest of the
people, for the #ost part, were not literate. =#inent #athe#aticians, astrono#ers,
physicians, Eedic scholars1 these could not read and write. Learning was i#parted orally
and was i#bibed by rote. The #ethod has its own e.cellence, and could be revived with
profit, within certain li#its9.
9$ould is oliness favour the revival of all that is old and ancientB9 asked Sir Paul
Dukes. is oliness replied that what was good and of value was worthy of revival. There
was no need for any propaganda. This is not to be done that way. 4f a few people would set
an e.a#ple in their personal lives, this would catch onF and a ti#e #ay co#e when the
$est also would e#ulate. ,nd, when there is recognition fro# the $est, our people #ay
wake up and see so#ething grand in their own past.
95ne last re6uest9 said Sir Paul. 9$hat would be the #essage fro# is oliness that could
be carried to the $estB9 is oliness re#ained silent for a considerable length of ti#e. e
was in1drawn, with eyes half1closed, and lost in conte#plation. ,t the end of that period, he
spoke in slow, #easured tones8
94n all that you do, let love be the sole #otive. ,ny deed #ust be with reference to another.
,ction i#plies the acted1upon as #uch as the agent. Let action be out of love. 4 a# not here
referring to the Gandhian gospel of ahi#sa. There #ay be situations which de#and violent
action. Punish#ents, for instance, #ay be necessary. =ven wars #ay have to be waged. -ut
whatever be the nature of the action, the agent #ust act out of love. Passions such as desire
and hatred, anger and #alice, #ust be totally eschewed. 4f love beco#es the guiding
principles of all deeds, then #ost of the ills of the world will vanish.
This you #ay carry with you as the #essage of the sages and saints of 4ndia9, is oliness
added.
Thus ended a #e#orable interview with one who is the e#bodi#ent of all that s #ost noble
and subli#e in the spiritual culture of 4ndia. =n>oying the aro#a of the virtues of gentleness
and courtesy, one could see the light of wisdo# bea#ing fro# those enchanting eyes, as
one listened to words which were true, and at the sa#e ti#e, pleasing.