Project Camelot Interviews - Vol. 2

Our Future, The End of the World, UFO’s,
Aliens, Free Energy, 2012, The NWO, NASA,

Mars, the Moon, Our Economy, World Economics,
The United States, The Illumnati, safe places and more.

Th e
Project Camelot Interviews Vol. 2
With Bill Ryan & Kerry Cassidy
Many who are challenging our current way of life have concerns about coming forward publicly and
telling what they know. Project Camelot's purpose is to provide a vehicle for those researchers and
'whistleblowers' to get their stories of truth out to the public.
Interviews With: Ann Eller, David Wilcock, Robert O. Dean, Marcia Schafer, Bill Holden, Jim Sparks,
Michael St. Clair, John Lear, George Green, Mariam Delicado, Dr. Brian O’Leary, Rebecca Jernigan,
Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon”, “Recardo Silva”, “Jake Simpson”, Peter Levenda , Dr. Bill
Deagle, “Elizabeth Nelson”, Jim Humble, Clif High, Benjamin Fulford, “James-The Integral”, Jessica-
The Crystal Child & David Icke.
WARNING:
Unless you have an open mind and are ready for some significant reality checks, do not open
this book or read these interviews. They will tell you the truth, or as close to it as we can get at
this time. And you may not be able to handle the truth. Remember to read between the lines
where information conflicts.
As Richard Hoagland says, “The lie is different at every level.”……..
It’s A Dangerous Path ……Remember ….You Were Warned!

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FIRST EDITION
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2
The Project Camelot Interviews

Vol. 2
Project Camelot Interview Descriptions 4
Project Camelot - Karry Cassidy & Bill Ryan 4
Project Goals 5
Overview & Mission Statement 5
In Tribute & Memory 5
Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy - Paranexus Radio Interview Transcript September 18 2008 13
We don't usually post details of our own interviews, but this was a good one. The audio quality is NOT good, but the content is. It
contains some information that has never been published on the Camelot site and may be the best audio summary of our work to
date.
1) A detailed summary of the 'Big Picture', including the Roswell crash, time travel issues, future human visitation, and the 2012
problem.
2) A detailed analysis of the October problem (i.e. what may be happening in the next few weeks).
3) Project Avalon and its mission.
Ann Eller – Phone Interview December 2006 (released in September 2008) 24
In 1985-86, the last year of his life, Ann Eller was the personal assistant to the very well known ufologist J. Allen Hynek. Hynek, an
astronomer and a physicist, acted as scientific adviser to three consecutive UFO studies undertaken by the US Air Force: Project
Sign (1947-49), Project Grudge (1949-52), and the infamous Project Blue Book (1952-69). Starting out as a skeptic, Hynek came
to understand that the UFOs and their occupants were very real indeed.
As an experiencer, Ann reveals a fresh approach to what it was like working for Hynek - as well as what Hynek really thought and
may have known about UFOs. She relates several anecdotes including a slightly different twist on Hynek's involvement as technical
advisor to Steven Spielberg on Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This 28 minute interview, which we've only just released in
September 2008 (having extracted some of the audio from a corrupted video) is an interesting and important new resource to all
serious researchers and historians of the subject
Bill Holden & Jim Sparks – April 2008 29
When we were in Las Vegas to interview John Lear, we called both Bill Holden and Jim Sparks to see if they'd like to meet with us
again. We also suggested that they might like to take the opportunity to meet one another for the first time, in our presence.
We were privileged to capture on camera, with their permission, the most interesting conversation which ensued. We hope you
enjoy it as much as we did.
John Lear Tells All – April 2008 37

When we met again with him recently, with considerably more time at our disposal than we had two years ago, John piled his studio
table high with books, diagrams and research papers and sat down to tell us "everything he knew". With special emphasis on the
Bob Lazar saga - as only John can tell it - we cover the inconsistencies in the 911 theories and why as a world renowned pilot he is
uniquely qualified to judge just what kind of planes, if any, hit the World Trade Center (answer, none: John explains why they were
holograms); why the moon's gravity may be as much as 64% that of the earth's, and could retain a very thin atmosphere; how Ben
Rich, the former director of the Lockheed Skunk Works, was a Mossad agent; the location of the "new area 51", called Sandia, deep
within the Nevada desert; what really happened at 'Above Top Secret' - an internet forum where he was attacked and which he has
subsequently left... and much more.
Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” – Futuretalk III

w/ Jim, Kerry, & Michael St. Clair 07/15/08 84
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We met with and interviewed this man in early September, but he declined to appear on video or to have his name made public... for
entirely understandable reasons. (Henry Deacon is a pseudonym for Arthur Newman, prompted by his similarity to the likeable and
creative polymath on the Eureka TV show.)
In this extraordinary, wide-ranging on-record testimony, he describes his work and experiences, and reveals some astounding
information about the coming planned war with China; one way in which drugs are smuggled by the military from Southeast Asia;
stargates and instantaneous communication over vast distance; the inhabited planets of Alpha Centauri; chemtrails; rips in
spacetime caused by atomic testing, and the damage and danger they have caused; the use of viruses to reduce the world's
population; the shooting down of an alien craft by a unit in which he served; and much more – including, possibly very importantly, a
confirmation of Dan Burisch's testimony.
We believe that the far-reaching information disclosed by this man is highly significant. We salute his courage in coming forward to
ensure these truths are known, and encourage and support all others to follow his example.
George Green – Phone Interview of September 2, 2008 93

A 35 minute telephone interview in which George discusses the economy, the Russian military, the probability of war with Iran, and
the need for The Ground Crew to pull together and get organized for difficult times ahead. Recognizing that things are moving fast
and changing almost daily, George has asked us to phone him in a few days' time after he's had a chance to talk further with some
of his own insider contacts in Washington and elsewhere to discover more about possible and probable covert plans.
US War-Mongering In Georgia A Negotiation Tactic As US Bankruptcy Looms

By Benjamin Fulford (original article from RENSE.com) 100
Benjamin Fulford – Phone Interview from Tokyo September 6, 2008 101
A 35 minute telephone interview with Benjamin Fulford. The purpose of the call was to allow him to expand on the details reported
by him in his 28 August article published on Jeff Rense's site. (See article following this transcript) His article concerned the
importance of 30 September as the end of the US Fiscal Year, and the possible situations being played out by the superpowers
behind the scenes.
David Wilcock – Phone Interview September 9, 2008 107

This is a blockbuster of a two hour phone conversation with David Wilcock, focusing on immediate current events but spanning time
travel, the Freemasons, the Anunnaki, the Nazis, WW II, advanced technology, the Roswell crash, the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds,
the Illuminati, the war in Georgia, the coming US election, Benjamin Fulford's testimony, and what may or may not happen in the
coming few weeks and months.
Miriam Delicado – “Alien Blue Star” August 2009 128
Miriam Delicado was contacted at an early age by benevolent, tall blond extraterrestrials, apparently singled out specifically for a
very special role. She was advised by them to keep a low profile for many years, and finally last year, 2007, she was told by them
that it was time for her to write her book: Alien Blue Star.
With that, Miriam became a minor sensation as thousands of people sensed that her book seemed to have been written for each of
them personally. And now Miriam is a woman on a mission: driven, articulate, passionate, and powerful, she tells a riveting story of
her very real and physical contact with a highly advanced, Guardian race, and the information she was asked to pass on.
Miriam is aware that there are others of her kind. The message is aimed at all people and holds special significance for what George
Green labeled the Ground Crew*: that we are nearly in what the Hopi - with whom Miriam has established a special affinity and
allegiance - called the End Times; that our planet and our civilization are in great danger; and that (so far, at the time of writing)
timelines do not appear to have changed... although it is always within our gift to create whatever future we collectively wish.
We feel similarly driven, and it's our great privilege to assist her in her purpose by presenting this video. This may be one of the the
most powerful and important interviews we have done.
* George's term, not Miriam's. George and Miriam have never met. But it is clear to us that it's the same group of people that each
addresses with the same urgency, and with almost the same message.
Robert O. Dean – Coming of Nibiru - September 2008 143
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When we met with Bob Dean in May 2007, he stated that ours would be his last interview. After its publication, we received more
mail - all of it generous and appreciative, without exception - than for any other interview we have ever done. We were therefore
quite delighted when he agreed to talk with us on record once again.
When we asked Bob what he wanted to discuss, he told us that he had important news, from his own inside sources, about Nibiru:
the highly controversial Planet X. This video contains extremely important information for all students of Planet X to consider.
True to form, Bob recounts other intriguing stories, including the NRO's classified discovery of "a goddamn boat" high on Mount
Ararat, and confirmation of Henry Deacon's report that the Anunnaki are active on present-day Mars. His humanity, his dignity, his
integrity and his humor all shine once again in this new video, and we are very confident that everyone who so enjoyed Bob's 2007
interview with us will find this just as entertaining, interesting, and valuable.
Dr. Bill Deagle – Prognosis for Planet Earth - September 2008 163
Taped in Vista, California, September 2008. Few in the UFO/ Consipracy/ Disclosure movement are as controversial as Dr Bill
Deagle. Outspoken, brilliant and passionate, he has generated as many critics as he has made committed friends.
We engage him in conversation (and hold our own!) and we believe we have succeeded in bringing out the human being, the warm
and caring side to him, that aspect of someone who in his passion for the truth, and for the potential splendor and magnificence of
the human race, has sometimes spoken in terms so strong that some have found him hard to hear.
He is pro-life and pro-gun! He is a medical doctor and a Prophet of modern times: but many misunderstand that term. A Prophet is
not a seer or a fortune teller. A Prophet - in the original meaning of the word, and the way Bill Deagle uses it - is someone who says:
"This is what's likely to occur if we don't wake up or shape up." In that mission, Camelot shares and supports his stand. If you
are going to be prepared for the “road ahead”, you must watch this interview. Be prepared to be shocked. We are not living in the
world that we think we are!
Dr Bill Deagle 24 September 2008 204
This is an opportunistic recording of an most interesting phone call with Dr Bill Deagle which explored a number of important topics
in a short 20 minute period. The phone call was unscheduled, and we were unable to record the beginning or the end of the call.
The standalone section in the middle is presented here for the research data which it contains.
Clif High, Half Past Human - Telephone Interview Transcript 26 September 2008 209
This 75 minute interview with Clif High from Half Past Human looks into his predictive linguistic modeling technology, Clif's personal
journey and relationship with his work, and HPH's forecasts themselves - the most well known of which is their analysis of a major
unknown event in early (7th?) October which Clif and others believe might be very major indeed. For us at Project Camelot, this was
a little too close to the warnings we had independently received from Hawkeye and other sources (see our home page, right hand
column, for details), and we found ourselves paying close attention.
This interview is not the best audio quality (mainly because of Clif's noise reducing phone, which makes him appear muffled) - but is
good value nonetheless because of the fascinating content. We are working on a transcript to be published soonest.
Dr. Bill Deagle - Telephone Transcript 4 October 2008 223
Dr Bill Deagle called us early in the morning (in Australia, where we're here for the NEXUS Conference) to report a long night of
visions and received information about imminent events which left him shaken to the core. We've published this call unedited and
immediately. The audio quality is excellent.
If the information Bill Deagle reports is accurate, then nothing could be more important.
Rebecca Jernigan -Telephone Transcripts 4 October 2008 232
Here aretwo short phone calls with radio host and psychic intiutive Rebecca Jernigan (Journeys with Rebecca), who first gave her
own information that she was getting regarding upcoming events, and then her reaction to our phone call with Bill Deagle. Her
intuitive dream information coincides almost exactly with Deagle's.
George Green - Telephone Interview Transcript, 21 October 2008 235
A 43 minute follow-up telephone conversation with George Green on the world's economy... and what may happen "when Obama is
in office". (To give us all at least something to smile about, don't miss the brief outtake at the end.)
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Jim Humble – Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) 244
Aerospace engineer Jim Humble's third career started accidentally while on a gold prospecting trip in the jungle of Venezuela.
There, using stabilized oxygen, he improvised an effective remedy for his colleagues who were stricken with malaria. As curious as
he had always been in his life, he returned to his native US and wondered why the cure had worked so well
Stephen Bassett - Interview Transcript 13 November 2008 254

An energetic, tireless, optimistic, one-man champion of Disclosure since 1996, Steve Bassett from the Paradigm Research Group is
adamant that no President has been better placed than Barack Obama to let the world know, officially and finally, about the reality of
the ET presence. In this 25 minute, spirited conversation, Steve explains to us why he expects this to happen in Spring 2009, and
gives interesting answers to one or two very straight questions.
Wingmakers - Why Would A ROBOT Need A Soul 261
Interview With “James”: The Sovereign Integral 264
In my search for more information about the Anunnaki, I stumbled across the WingMakers website.
After reading everything there was on that site I became convinced that the story would make a phenomenal movie, so I set out to
contact Mark Hempel (the webmaster) and James (the creator of the materials).
As Camelot has matured I have kept in touch with Mark and, via Mark, with James - and never lost sight of wanting to get the
WingMakers made into a major motion picture. In the meantime, I have in the last year or so been asking Mark if we could do an
interview for Project Camelot with James.
Many months passed, and from time to time I would renew my request. Finally, out of the blue, I got the following email from Mark
saying that James was willing to do a written interview. I am therefore absolutely delighted to be able to present the following
interview with James.
After receiving his answers to our complex questions I can only say that I, for one, have even more questions coming to mind. And it
is my profound hope that this can become an ongoing dialog with what I consider to be one of the clearest minds operating in the
world today.
“Jake Simpson” - The Biggest Secret 286
For reasons which will become obvious, we were at first quite unsure whether to release this at all. After a great deal of
thought, and further consultation with Jake, we decided to make this information available. Assuming it is true - and we believe that it
is - it could hardly be more significant. It dovetails with everything else we know. And in many ways, we wish that it did not.
Much of what follows is barely believable, so this may be its own best defense. Those who choose not to believe this information at
all can relax - just a little, and maybe for a little while - with the knowledge that none of it can currently be proved. For the benefit of
those whose jobs it is to monitor this information, we do not have any documentation of any kind. We are delighted, however, to
consider Jake a close friend. We are absolutely certain that he is exactly who he says he is, and have talked with a number of
people who have known him for many years.
“Recardo Silva” – Illuminati Activities & High Strangeness 290
During our January 2009 trip to Quito, Ecuador, we met an expatriate American who had had a number of very interesting
experiences. After a preliminary conversation, we asked him if he would be willing to tell his story on record to Project Camelot. For
reasons that will become obvious to the reader, he has asked to remain anonymous. Ricardo Silva is a pseudonym.
Absolutely Bizarre 'Creature' In Benjamin Fulford's Spine 309
Benjamin Fulford Phone Interview January 26 2009 310
We just managed a short conversation with Benjamin Fulford, who, as many of you know, is recovering from very recent surgery
reported originally by Rense on January 23rd. Considering the amphibian-like character of the tumor they removed, everyone has
been curious as well as concerned over how he is doing.
Benjamin Fulford's 'Creature' (?) 312
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On Friday, January 23rd, Benjamin Fulford shocked the audience of the Jeff Rense Program by emailing the claim, accompanied by
a photograph, that surgeons had removed a bizarre life form, very much resembling a salamander, from his spine. Those who could
view the strange creature were shocked and horrified. Immediately, everyone who saw the "thing" wondered what it was--and if it
were real.
Marcia Schafer - Ground Crew 101 315

We first interviewed Marcia Schafer in May 2007 (see below). When we met her husband Bob Dean for the second time in
September 2008, we naturally sought an update from Marcia on where she saw everything going in the world... and what she could
report from her professional consulting work with the large number of newly awakening executive clients she talks with every day.
Marcia told us about the growing awareness of what she calls the swing vote: those who are becoming aware of the new paradigm
and the ET connection, and what this all means when applied to the real world.
We've called this interview Ground Crew 101 because it seemed to us that Marcia was strongly connecting with those who were just
coming on board, discovering their missions, and integrating their new awareness into their everyday lives. Her no-nonsense,
practical approach is refreshing. She is unabashedly positive in her outlook - in spite of the myriad of challenges we face together as
a civilization in the next few years.
Her frank appraisal of the inner changes in perspective which are necessary to face the future is inspiring, and is a good guidestone
for those just breaking out of the Matrix and taking on a mission: new recruits in the quest to save our planet and our humanity. We
encourage those just waking up to the changing times around them - bravely taking those first steps into the great unknown replete
with other dimensions, visiting ETs and conspiracy theories fast becoming facts - to watch... and welcome aboard.
Jessica, Crystal Child Interview Transcript 328

We realized that it might be interesting (and valuable to many) to interview Jessica. Seeing her as a Crystal Child, we took the
decision to include her among our cadre of witnesses as a representative of the younger and very awakened generation who are
well-informed, deeply concerned about world events, and aware of the need for mankind to grow spiritually in order to transcend the
myriad of problems we all face together.
In this 50 minute interview Jessica speaks openly and emotionally about her personal journey, her family, and some of the
bewildering experiences she has encountered. Her weaknesses are her dyslexia, and that she has not yet fully integrated her many
experiences and perceptions; her strengths are her openness and her determination to bring a message to those who can hear it
from her. She sees herself as a newly-arrived teacher and a messenger, and she probably is both of those things.
Like all of us, she still has a long way to go in her journey, and has much to learn. But this is why we are all here, and the choice we
make is to help one another as best we can. We are delighted to help present her message to the world.
http://www.jessicamystic.ca/
Dr. Brian O'Leary - January 2009 Ecuador Conference Introduction 338

Dr. Brian O'Leary - The Energy Solution Revolution - January 2009 Ecuador Conference 347
Dr Brian O'Leary suffered the ridicule of his schoolfriends when - several years before Sputnik - he announced his intention to go to
the moon. Yet by the age of 27 he was a member of NASA's astronaut program, slated to be one of the first to visit Mars. Several
years later, he resigned (for various reasons) and took up a career in academia where he rubbed shoulders with - among many
others - Carl Sagan at Cornell and the pioneering psi investigator Robert Jahn at the physics department at Princeton.
A near-death experience in a auto accident encouraged his exploration of the paranormal, and soon after he applied his
considerable abilities to the investigation of Free ('overunity') Energy and psi phenomena. He authored several books and became a
well-known Free Energy activist.
His list of personal friends reads like a Who's Who of notable paradigm-challenging researchers and out-of-the-box thinking
scientists. In our interview we asked him to summarize his exceptional life, and present his vision for the future.
An optimistic, gentle man, Brian O'Leary is gifted to possess intellect, vision and graciousness in equal measure. We were delighted
to spend time with him at his Vilcabamba home and are very much looking forward to continuing our friendship with him in 2009 and
beyond.
George Green - January 2009 Ecuador Conference 363
Brian O’Leary (BO'L): The next session of this conference and the theme of today is Crisis and Opportunity. And I can’t think of a
more knowledgeable person, a unique person on the planet, to address those two questions, than George Green, whom I’ve known
for about 20 years, I guess? We’ve been in ….
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Camelot Live at Vilcabamba - January 2009 Ecuador Conference 394
As many of you know, Project Camelot made a recent trip to Ecuador to speak at a two-day conference hosted by Dr Brian O'Leary,
ex-NASA astronaut and prominent Free Energy activist. This is one of the few times Project Camelot's Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy
have appeared on stage together to present our research. Other conferences where we have appeared are the Nexus Conference
in Australia, Fall of 2008--and we have been invited back this year-- The Crash Retrieval Conference 2008 and also at the Alamo
Conference in 2008 and again this coming May.
The title of the conference was CRISIS AND OPPORTUNITY, a fitting theme for the start of 2009 and Obama's new administration
with all that it may bring. We talked in some detail about the Big Picture as we currently see it, including information from our
important new witness Jake Simpson
Dr Bill Deagle (16 February 2009) 417
Dr Bill Deagle called us today to give us an update after our last contact with him: his famous phone call of 4 October 2008 (see
below). He talked with us for 23 minutes about the great danger we all face from the engineered collapse of the world economy, and
told us that he had learned from senior intelligence sources that two nuclear devices had recently been found in US cities and
deactivated.
Robert O. Dean - Candid Informal Conversation 25 Feburary 2009 422
This very interesting conversation took place at the International UFO Congress at Laughlin, Nevada, on 25 February 2009. It was
not a formal interview, had been opportune and unscheduled, and was recorded with a hand-held dictaphone in a very noisy
environment. Ken Elliott and Miriam Delicado were also present, and we're delighted to share this with you. Enjoy :)
Peter Levenda Interview Transcript Sinister Forces 442
Peter Levenda came to our notice as the author of the powerful, compelling, and well-researched Sinister Forces. This trilogy
explores the unsavory links between the Nazis, the occult, mind control and modern American politics, and asks deep and
uncomfortable questions about what forces underlie and may control global events.
Peter Levenda was researching the Nazi connection to American politics and secret societies as early as the Nixon administration,
and he summarized his findings in a highly regarded book called Unholy Alliance. Currently, Jim Marrs, Richard Hoagland and
Joseph Farrell are among those also involved in researching these same dark forces that surfaced in our everyday lives during the
administration of George W. Bush, and which remain as an important question for the direction of this country with the newly elected
Barack Obama.
We feel fortunate to have stumbled upon Peter Levenda's impeccable research, which connects the dots between the agenda of the
Illuminati, the Nazi influence within black projects and the US government, and the role of the occult and mind control in what is
becoming the new world we are living in where the very foundation of freedom is being attacked and curtailed, threatening our
humanity at every juncture.
George Green Telephone Interview 2/25/2009 454
We called George Green for an update on the state of the global economy. We recommend that George's views be considered
along with Dr Bill Deagle's (see above) - and also with a very recent update from Lindsey Williams, the author of the controversial
and potentially most important book Energy Non-Crisis. Lindsey specifically states that this recent interview (done not with us, but
with The Byte Show) is not copyrighted, and we consider this update from Lindsey to be the most detailed and informative interview
he has yet done. For anyone following George Green's and Bill Deagle's economic warnings, and who would appreciate more
detailed information, we recommend Lindsey Williams' update as essential listening.
2009: A Tale of Two Timelines 461
In January 2008 we wrote an important article which we called 2008 : The Future is Now. It was a major summary of the various
threats and possibilities that we felt lay before us on Planet Earth in these times, based on all the information we then had at our
disposal. If you have not done so, we would urge you to read this in its entirety.
Now it's March 2009, over 12 months later, and some things have changed. Others, meanwhile, have not. But there is enough new
information to revisit our summary and make some important comments about where we are at in this game... a game of two
timelines.
“Elizabeth Nelson” - What Really Happened To Flight 93 478
In February 2009 I [Bill Ryan] was approached by a remarkable and very brave young lady who was present in the room when the
decision was made to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 over Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on the morning of 9/11: 11th
September, 2001. In this 45 minute audio interview, this very courageous woman tells her story in detail.
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Whistleblower Testimony - An Electrical Engineer On 2012-2013 – April 6 487

We have been contacted by the wife of an electrical engineer who has been officially briefed about a serious major threat to
infrastructure in a few years' time.
We believe this information is credible and important but the contact may now have been lost. Therefore we are publishing what we
have - with many questions unanswered.
David Icke – Conversation With 491
David Icke, one of the most visible, outspoken and controversial speakers and writers about the Illuminati and the New World Order
control agenda, will need practically no introduction to most readers of this book.
This is not an interview specifically about the information he's researched and presents so lucidly in his famous long presentations,
and in his many books - all of which are packed with references, anecdotes and encyclopedic detail. It's more about the man behind
his mission; what makes him tick, and what keeps him going; the source of his inner resolve; and, notably - anyone who mistakes
David for a doomsayer, take note - his vision for Planet Earth: "The idea that this might not all have a successful outcome", he told
us, "Never occurs to me."
David's unflinching and remarkable commitment to his cause has made life far easier for many who have come after him - including
ourselves. We owe him our own vote of thanks, and in this two hour FutureTalk we pay tribute to his life's work, and to the man who
is still standing after all these years, still marching on that road less traveled, determined to present what he suspects is the truth,
whatever it is.
A Tribute To - Dr. Eugene Mallove (Murdered Free energy pioneer) 514
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A NOTE ABOUT WHISTLEBLOWERS AND RESEARCHERS

that you find on these pages:
We, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, do not necessarily agree with or
endorse all of the views presented here. What Camelot is about is the
investigation into the mysteries that surround us. We are all, in a
sense, investigators of our world. And while we, as individuals, may
not agree with everything presented on our site, we fully support
freedom of thought and speech as well as the Quest for truth.
--31 December 2008
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About Us
The best place to hide is in the open.
Project Camelot is based on an idea generated when we first met and spent the weekend in Tintagel, England, overlooking the sea in the
home of King Arthur. We named our project in tribute to the vision behind the utopian idea of the Round Table - and have structured all our
efforts in this inspiring spirit.
For the past two years we have been financing Project Camelot solely out of our own pockets and with the generous help of donations from
visitors to our site. We thank you sincerely all for your help and support, without which we could not do what we do.
To date, we have traveled widely meeting and interviewing truth-tellers in the effort to provide enlightening testimony about the true nature
of our world. We will continue as long as our funds and contributions make this all possible.
_____________________________
Bill Ryan
Bill Ryan has a BSc in Mathematics with Physics and Psychology (Bristol University, UK,
1974), and followed this with a brief stint in teaching. For 27 years he was a management
consultant specializing in personal and team development, leadership training and executive
coaching. Major long-term clients included BAe (Systems) Ltd (formerly British Aerospace),
Hewlett-Packard, and PricewaterhouseCoopers.
In November 2005 he inaugurated the Project Serpo website, the report of an alleged
disclosure, in stages, of a US-alien exchange program which took place over 40 years ago.
While he had been interested in UFOs, Free Energy research and alternative medicine (he is
trained as a kinesiologist) for over thirty years, his first contact with the UFO community at
large occurred after establishing the Serpo website. He resigned his management consultancy
post in May 2006 and now devotes all his time to Project Camelot.
Kerry Cassidy
Kerry Lynn Cassidy has a BA in English with graduate work in Sociology, an MBA certificate
from the UCLA Anderson Graduate School of Management, and was competitively selected to
attend a year of film school at the UCLA Extension Short Fiction Film Program as one of their
first "hyphenates": a writer-director-producer.
After 19 years in Hollywood working for major studios and independent production companies
in production, development and new media, she has written a number of screenplays, acquired
the movie rights to the Wingmakers story in 2003, and started work on her own UFO
documentary in 2005.
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Bill Ryan is currently based in Europe and Kerry Cassidy lives near Los Angeles. Contrary to most people's very natural assumptions, they
are not a couple. United in their vision and purpose, and working as the closest friends, they travel and network as widely as possible in
search of truth and reliable testimony to answer what may be the most important questions of our time.
Project Goals:
• To provide researchers, activists and ‘whistleblowers’ – in the area of exopolitics, free energy and investigation into conspiracies
that threaten the current paradigm – with access to all forms of media in order to get the truth out.
• To establish ‘safety in numbers’ and unite these disparate factions under an umbrella of protection for activists and ‘whistleblowers’
who may have concerns for the safety of themselves and their loved ones.
• To provide a tribute to all activists in paradigm-challenging fields who have worked for the benefit of humanity... and who have
suffered or been silenced for speaking the truth.
Overview And Mission Statement:

• Many courageous, free-thinking individuals have suffered for their commitment to help humanity.
• We honor them here, and offer protection and support for those who follow in their path.
• We are dedicated to getting the truth out.
In Tribute And Memory:

Please visit the tribute page on our website for information about each of these people's lives and achievements... and why they may have
died.
Dr. John Badwey Harry Hoxsey Dr. Wilhelm Reich

Paul Bennewitz Morris K. Jessup Royal Rife
James Black Dr. Milbank Johnson Ron Rummel
Dr. Eugene Blass Todd Kauppila Phil Schneider
Ron Bonds Jim Keith Leonid Strachunsky
Mae Brussell Dr. David Kelly Jose Trias
Danny Casolaro John F. Kennedy Karla Turner
Dr. J. Clayton Dorothy Kilgallen Dean Warwick
William Cooper Dr. William Koch Gary Webb
Dr. Cooperson George Lakhovsky 25 Marconi scientists, 1982-88
Arie DeGeus Ann Livingston 10 NASA astronauts, 1964-67
Ruth Drown Brian Lynch 9 Minot and Barksdale AFB airmen,
Frank Edwards Dr. John Mack 2007
Don Elkins Dr. Eugene Mallove Mr. X (died Dec. 2008)
James V. Forrestal Dr. James McDonald
Dr. Max Gerson Stanley Meyer ... AND THE LIST GOES ON
John Hadley
These people died for their cause. Who will be next?
12
Project Camelot:
Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy:
Paranexus Radio Interview Transcript
(The New Big Picture)
18 September 2008
huge amount of money to even being the same room with some of
these people.
And here we are, we’re very closely connected with a lot of them
and we’re privileged to be collecting information that starts to
make sense of this great cobweb of secrecy which I was referring
to just now.
And we claim very little credit for anything that’s happened. It

We don't usually post details of our own interviews, but this was seems to be happening around us. We’re part of a larger team.
a good one. The audio quality is NOT good, but the content is. It There’s a real… Pardon my mixed metaphors. There’s a real
contains some information that has never been published on the snowball that’s rolling.
Camelot site and may be the best audio summary of our work to
date. Times are changing. The stories are coming out. We haven’t
been stopped in our work, which is very significant. Given that
1) A detailed summary of the 'Big Picture', including the Roswell The Powers That Be have got the capability to squash us like a
crash, time travel issues, future human visitation, and the bug if they wanted to, they have not done that. And we think that
2012 problem. that is significant. Because we do think the information we’ve
2) A detailed analysis of the October problem (i.e. what may be presented is valuable. And we’re in a position to present some of
happening in the next few weeks) that, depending on what you and your listeners would like to
3) Project Avalon and its mission. focus on, in the next couple of hours.
Start of Interview But we’re being permitted to do this. And we think that this may
be helping The Powers That Be with the problem that they’ve
Doug Kelley: Welcome to Paranexus Universe. It is Thursday, got, which is: How do they come clean with this huge pile of
September 18, 2008. I’m your host Doug Kelley here with my secrets that they’re sitting on? For a whole variety of reasons, it’s
co-host, Grant Rubendunst. Welcome, Grant. just got very, very, very complicated.
Grant: Hey, welcome everybody. We’re really excited to have And we started off just telling a few stories about ufo witnesses;
Bill and Kerry with us from Project Camelot tonight. Yeah, and and Bill Hamilton; Gary McKinnon, the so-called Pentagon
so, if you could, for the folks in the audience who might not be as hacker; a guy who we had contacted privately who was in an
familiar with your wonderful website and the great work you did, extraordinary situation 20 years ago of being an archivist of
if you could just, maybe, perhaps start out by telling us how you classified information, six months working in a vault with
guys got together and how this became such a passion for both of photographs and documents and artifacts and films. And he came
you. forward to tell us what he had experienced.
Kerry Cassidy: Basically, what happened was I was a frustrated So we thought: Wow, this is incredible. We’ve got a couple of
writer. witnesses here who are willing to say something on record.
Bill Ryan: She just basically just picked up a consumer-grade And since then we’ve gone into time travel; we’ve got into
camcorder and started talking to people, and I joined her just a what’s happening with a possible, potential, catastrophe that we
little bit over two years ago. We realized we had the same vision. feel has been averted years ahead. Then we got into issues
And to cut a very long story short, we’ve had a very magical connected with: OK, what is gonna be happening in the next few
experience since then. years?
We’ve had the experience, and forgive the metaphor, we just It’s all very interesting, talking about Roswell and the kind of
walk towards apparently blank walls and doors open to welcome mess that Eisenhower, who was basically a good man, may have
us into an incredible wonderland of opportunity, talking to people got himself into in the early 1950s. But there’s a lot of historical
who just a few short years ago when I was reading UFO books in information which is really interesting and not all that valuable
my spare time, I was thinking: You know what? I would give a
13
unless we’re still back in the so-called ufo dark ages when we’re that. It’s projectavalon.net. Click on the forum. Henry Deacon is
trying to prove that there’s something going on. right there.
For us, this is self-evident, that there are so many things going on Now, what these two witnesses say is that the Roswell visitors
out there that aren’t reported on CNN. We’re taking this as our were future humans from a future Earth. They were not extra-
starting point, that we have visitors, that there are secrets, that the terrestrials, they are extra-temporals. And they differ slightly in
US military and the military of other countries are in this up their the time period which they believe they came from. Dan Burisch,
necks and beyond; that there are really complicated issues from what I recall, says that he understands that they came from
involving visits from future humans, time travel, time loops, stuff 24,000 years in the future. Henry Deacon says he thought it was
connected with the Montauk Project. more like 6,000 years in the future.
It’s very, very complicated, very interesting, very important. And But those details are really unimportant, because this is such an
we’re living in critical times right now. And as Grant said, I important concept to get. And the thing is that this was not…
think, These are interesting times. This crash was a HUGE screw-up, if you’ll excuse my French
here, because it was not to have happened.
And one of the things that we find ourselves staring at almost in
real time as we talk to you, is information coming at us about the And one of the things that was retrieved from the crash was a
kind of things that may be happening literally in the next few small device which was a kind of… It was like a time portal, time
weeks. And all of these things are connected. guidance, time travel, instrument which is way beyond my
capacity to describe in the English language. I wouldn’t even
And with that, I’ll step down from the podium from which I’ve know how to… I wouldn’t even know what to call this thing.
been talking [laughs], and allow you to steer this along, because
there’s so much to say. But the consequences of this was that the US military, in 1947,
they got their hands on a device that enabled them to be able to
D: OK. Grant, you have a question? look into the future and manipulate time in various ways, and to
create a very… To make that complicated story short, what
happened was that then created a massive amount of confusion,
G: One of the things I wanted to ask you, Bill, was… You know, because it’s like giving a bunch of kids a whole bunch of
on your website you talk about, kind of, your thesis. And I dynamite and detonators.
thought that was really fascinating. And I wonder if you could
kind of enlighten our audience, if you could give them your
perspective, kind of what you think, or an overview on what you G: Just the mere thought of it, Bill, is kind of scary, you know,
think is happening and what the consequences might be. Because the military tinkering with something like that in the 1940s.
I think our audience may not be as familiar with it as I am, and I
find it absolutely fascinating. B: Yeah. They were tinkering around… As we are given to
understand by both Burisch and Deacon, they were tinkering
B: OK, I will do my best. And the reason why I say that is around with this high-tech device in such a way that it started to
because these are complicated concepts, and it’s almost the kind create loops and paradoxes in time.
of thing that’s easier to present with a diagram rather than on live
radio. But here we go. And one of the issues that was prevalent there was that they
discovered fairly early on, both from their own investigations
This is what we are reasonably convinced has happened, and it’s using this device, and also from contact with future humans from
a sort of a variation of, and an enlargement on, what could be a different era, even further into the future, is that in the future
called conventional UFO understanding. So here we go. humans’ history, there was a major catastrophe in the year 2012
or around 2012.
D: Take a breath.
This is what the 2012 thing is all about. It’s about an awareness
that we have, and a historical record from the future humans’
B: [laughs] Very deep breath. We are given to understand by two point of view, that from their historical perspective, there was a
of our witnesses who did not know each other, independent- major catastrophe that was a huge civilization wipeout. It was a
testing me, one of whom is Dan Burisch who is well-known to pole shift.
the UFO community, who we know well and who we are totally
satisfied that his credentials are good will and very high
connections; and another guy whose pseudonym, which we gave And what happened then… once again, to make this long story
him, is Henry Deacon, who has worked on the inside for a large very short… is that the US military did what they do best and
number of years. We know this guy very, very well. they started to dig in. They took defensive action and they started
to spend trillions of dollars on a whole network of underground
bases.
And, just as an aside on that, a couple of weeks ago we started a
forum called the Project Avalon forum, not Project Camelot, but
Project Avalon. The two are closely connected, and we’ll talk And interestingly enough, in the future humans’ history, this as
about that a little bit, too. And Henry Deacon is very live on this exactly what was done. And after the catastrophe, half of the
forum. It’s an almost unique situation where we’ve got a black- human race stayed underground, half of the human race left the
ops whistleblower who’s actually answering questions in real planet, first to the Moon and Mars. They went off in different
time on our forum. And we invite all our listeners to check into direction and evolved in slightly different ways.
14
Now, the reason for this pole shift, so we are given to understand, What they saw was that before the US election in 2008 (and here
was that a certain kind of time-portal technology, which is known we are now!), there would be a war which would be launched
in the vernacular as Looking-glasses, manmade Looking-glasses that then would be inherited by the next administration, the
and manmade Stargates, which both used the same kind of president of which would be Hillary Clinton! … which is
technology. Stargates you travel through. Looking-glasses you interesting, because this doesn’t look to be the case. There would
look through. And you can look into time and you can look into have to be a lot of strange events occur for this to the case. So it
space. looks as if that timeline has been broken. But for a long time this
was not certain.
And according to the future humans’ history, these devices
amplified -- accidentally -- the effects of the Earth moving And the events on that Variant 83 of Timeline 1 are not only a
through a particular region of energetic space in and around the war against Iran, but an economic collapse which is associated
time of 2012. And this is what you read about all over the net … with that, and then an enormous mess which is pretty bad news
we’ll have the Earth moving into an area where it’s parallel with and certainly something to be avoided if at all possible, that
the plane of the… involves various nuclear exchanges… Pakistan, Russian, China, a
whole bunch of nasty stuff. Not the civilization-stopper, but
G: Center of the Galaxy. certainly something that involves quite a lot of hard times in the
next 18 months to 2 years.
B: …the galaxy. Something to do with that. This isn’t just
complete hokum, although there’s a lot of hokum talked about it. And ever since that news was discovered, as it were, various
factions have been trying to avert this, because we do have free
will and the future is not cast in stone. And the very first thing
There’s a region of energetic space that the solar system starts to that happened after this was discovered was that Mike
move through, and is starting to move through, and in the future McConnell -- who’s a good guy and he’s the Director of National
humans’ timeline, these manmade Looking-glass and Stargate Intelligence, the USDNI, as he’s called -- he instructed his
devices amplified these energetic effects, which is something to intelligence organization to publish what is called the National
do with micro-wormholes in space, and caused the entire Earth to Intelligence Estimate on the 3rd of December last year [2007]
wobble, just like knocking over a bowl of soup in a restaurant, which stated that Iran was not a threat.
which created this huge wipeout.
Now, that was not in the timeline that was seen, so this was the
And we’ve got all… Although it’s a paradox and we haven’t kind first attempt to actually change things and to avert the war.
of got there yet, the human race has got this sort of future-
perspective-ancestral-memory of this thing. Everyone’s looking
around thinking: My god! You know, we’re in deep trouble, and And basically ever since then, there’s been in a push-me/pull-you
what’s this 2012 thing about? And people are talking between the factions who actually want this war to happen --
catastrophes and pole shifts. because they’re driven by all kinds of crazy Illuminati prophecies
about end times and Armageddon, and they actually want this
thing to happen.
And it’s almost impossible to find the right tense to use in the
English language. It’s like this did happen in the future and the
future humans came back and said: Listen, we know why this As Dan Burisch has said in the past, that because for so many
happened, because it happened to us. If you decommission or years the politicians of the world have known what seems to be
dismantle these Looking-glasses and Stargates, then this won’t lying ahead, based on this time portal information, they have just
happen to you. been actors following a script, just following what they kind of
believe in a quasi-religious way is their destiny.
And then this creates a new, different, timeline. And we have
been credibly assured by Dan Burisch, who took part in a special And this is really alarming, because where this destiny goes is
project last year, 2007, to check out whether the somewhere that doesn’t look like particularly good news for the
decommissioning of the Looking-glasses and Stargates had human race.
actually been effective.
Now, at this point I’m gonna take another deep breath here. I’m
And his summary was that, yes, the catastrophe has been gonna stop and I’m gonna allow Kerry to fill in all the gaps.
avoided. This will not happen. But what they did see was a whole
bunch of other stuff which has been coming at us for the last 6 to [laugher]
9 months. And this has focused our attention.
D: OK.
And in this intelligence probe - it’s a time portal intelligence
probe into the future - the catastrophic future timeline which they G: We’re all ears.
called Timeline 2, that apparently is very improbable now. That
is, they are assured that this will not happen.
D: Kerry, still with us?
What they did see on Timeline 1, which is the non-catastrophic
timeline… and it’s Variant 83 which they saw. They had to call it K: Hi. Yeah. I am. Actually, I’m not really sure where you want
something, and there are a number of variants, and this has all got to go at this point, so I’ll let you ask the questions and let’s, you
to do with quantum probabilities. know, let me try to answer.
15
D: Well, let’s do this. We’re getting close to the bottom of the There will be Earth changes in the future. We’re having, you
hour so we’re gonna take a short break in just a minute and then know, some pretty heavy-duty storms, as you’re seeing already,
we’ll come back from the break and we’ll pick it up where we and there may be some escalations along those lies.
left off and that’ll give you a chance to reset here a little bit.
There certainly are weathers wars, so even things that are
Before we go to our break, I just want to welcome everybody in naturally induced by the Earth itself and some of the planetary
the chatroom and everybody who is listening. We’re glad you and galactic changes that we are going through are going to be
could take your time and join us tonight. A very interesting aggravated by actual weather technology which is being, I guess
discussion, a lot to come out of it yet. I think we’re scratching the you might say, misused by The Powers That Be, Russia, China,
iceberg here. There’s a lot of questions on this one. We’re very the US. So there’s that aspect of things that you also have to be
excited to have Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy with us from Project aware of.
Camelot. We’re gonna pick up the discussion with them just as
soon as we get back from the break. They’ll hang with us. We’ll D: Kerry, let me ask you a question. Are you saying that the
be right back. [break] weather issues that we’ve been having in perhaps recent years, or
even this year, is the result of the weather manipulation by the
And welcome back everybody. Doug Kelley here with Grant government powers?
Rubendunst, and we're talking with Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy
from Project Camelot. Welcome back, Bill and Kerry. K: Yes. I’m saying that in addition to the natural changes that are
going on, and that means, you know, things going on with the sun
K: So this is Kerry. And, just to recap for a second what we were although right now the sun has been incredibly quiet, there have
talking about before the break, we were talking about how been some “hits” on both sides. There’s a lot of thought that the
Timeline 1, variant 83 has been possibly changed. Chinese earthquake was a targeted hit, and Ben Fulford has come
forward to talk about that. We’ve got a recorded interview with
At this moment the information we’re getting is that actually the him. He’s also talked about that, I believe, on Rense.
timeline is changing so rapidly that something that was planned
and in the works for a few months ago may not be actually It’s hard to prove this sort of thing unless you get a black-ops
occurring the way people think it will, and that goes for massive person coming forward. I have to say that, other than perhaps
events. It goes for some of the weather wars that are going on Tom Bearden, there are not a lot of people out there that are
behind the scenes, and some of the plans that are being made to willing to come forward and talk about the weather wars side of
launch attacks on Iran, and so on. things.
Lately we have, in the last two months, just launched a new That was one incident. The tsunami in Indonesia was apparently,
website that’s sort of the sister website to Project Camelot, called possibly, caused by an undersea hit, electromagnetic hit.
Project Avalon and you can go there. It’s projectavalon.net. We
have a forum there which is actually exploding and taking off in D: Well, what’s the point? I mean, are they testing? Or are they
an incredible manner. We had something like 13,000 visitors in actually targeting these different areas? And if they are, for what
the first week or so. And then we’re up to 2,000 users at the purpose?
moment. That’s not counting the people that just visit every day,
but actual registered users.
K: Well, from what we understand… I mean, you have to sort of
go back to Project Camelot and drill down through all the
And it’s all about building communities, finding safe places and different witnesses, but what it comes down to is the Illuminati
networking for the coming day that includes the future, creating a Agenda.
new future, hopefully a new paradigm, from where we are now,
up to and beyond 2012.
What that is encompasses is, in the short term… If you want to
look at what’s called the Report From Iron Mountain -- and we
And we just see 2012 as being just one day. We see we’re in the have had that substantiated by Henry Deacon. We’ve got a link to
throes of a complete global change and hopefully an emergence it on our site under Henry Deacon, but you can also just do a
of a different consciousness. And the old paradigm is quickly search on the web for Iron Mountain Report. Basically that lays
destroying itself. And we plan to replace it. And so we’re gonna out what WAS the Illuminati Agenda. And that started
do our bit here. somewhere back in, gosh, I don’t know, the ’60s at least, and
going forward.
Project Camelot was all about stating the problem. And Project
Avalon is all about creating a solution. So we’re hoping to However, what happened since then is that… And that had to do
continue along those lines. with population reduction. That was the bottom line: that the
Earth was going to become overpopulated and they, the people in
One of the things with Project Avalon is also that we’re making control, wanted to get rid of what was said to be 2/3 of the
available resources for building communities and for, you know, population.
eco-friendly communities, anything you need to know to set
yourself up, and maybe a small group of people, in a safe place. Henry Deacon, who is one of our witnesses, has come forward
and talked about how he was given that report and told to sit
down and read it, digest it, and understand that We are the wolves
and they are the sheep. And this is what’s going on.
16
What is further to that, and this kind of piggybacks on what Bill And he said: Yes. I am that person. And he was responding to us
had been talking about with the timeline changing, is Dan privately. He hadn’t come knocking at our door as a
Burisch saying that all bets are off, that the Looking-glasses have whistleblower; he just said, Hey look, you know, I like your site.
been shut down, The Powers That Be no longer theoretically are And we have had messages like that from a lot of insiders, who
able to see their future (which was helping them make decisions, just like seeing what we’re doing because it does reflect many
right? They were able to select the best decision for their own ego aspects of the truth in what they see. And we checked his e-mail
gratification and therefore move ahead.) … that all the bets are address, whether he was the real guy, his IP address, and all that
off, at this point, with regard to that. kind of verification.
Although we have to say that this is the party-line that we’ve So we found ourselves thinking: Hey, we’re talking to a guy
been given. I have to say that it’s possible THE POWERS THAT who’s a brilliant scientist. We’ll just ask him a question or two.
BE, being fairly devious, and certainly the Vatican is part of all And this was two years ago. And the time span is really
of this, possibly have other means by which to see the future important because things have changed since then.
because it’s a technology that was taken from cylinder seals,
Sumerian, and before that from the ETs. It also came, as Bill said, We said to him, basically: What do you know and what can you
with the crash at either Roswell or Kingman, whichever one you tell us about what’s coming up?
want to believe.
And he said: We’re in for a very tough time, and I don’t want to
But all we’re saying here is that that timeline, the timeline in be the bearer of bad news. He said there will be three events in
which a catastrophe was in the works, nuclear war definitely, and the next few years, starting in 2009.
various other things, possibly has been averted.
He said the first one would be a [#1] coronal mass ejection [from
Although I have to say here that recently we’ve had the sun]. And he said: To see what I mean, look up the event of
communication with Dan Burisch in which he stated -- and he’s 1859, which we did.
put this on his own eaglesdisobey.net forum -- he says that the
Orions are up above the Earth sitting in ships with American,
possibly people, officers, from other countries (the Secret Space The event of 1859 was before the electronic era, of course, and
Program), and they’re watching to make sure that indeed the this was when the Earth was basically bombarded by massive
catastrophe does not happen. fireworks display from the sun which created auroral displays as
far south as the Equator in both hemispheres. It was incredibly
spectacular and everyone saw wonderful sunsets for a little while.
So they’re sort of standing by on the off-chance that things take a But it didn’t cause any damage because this was before the time
really dark turn. Certainly our economy is taking a dark turn at of chips and circuits.
the moment.
Now, if this happened now, a lot of stuff will get burned out. We
D: Could you just clarify real quick… this catastrophe? Is it would be OK. We’d see all the fireworks but we wouldn’t be able
projected to be a certain time? Are we talking 2012? Is there to talk on Skype, our cell-phones wouldn’t work, we wouldn’t
anything about that in this? have TV, we wouldn’t have radio. Our cars would stop working
because the electronic management systems would burn out.
K: I mean… Well, it’s the standard end of the Mayan calendar. Planes would fall out of the sky. The only things that …
Bill kind of outlined the various events, one of which is a pole
shift. Well, actually that’s a bit apocalyptic! Planes might fall out of the
sky if the coronal mass ejection was strong enough. This parallels
We have mixed information on this. As you know… Because what Kerry described just now as Ed Dames having talked about
when we created Camelot, it wasn’t only about whistleblowers. It what his team of remote viewers had seen in reference to a ‘Kill-
became about truth-tellers getting word to us from, you know, all shot’.
kind of different places. And in fact we have a scientist who we
cannot name who came forward, who has gone to work for -- I Now, this scientist who contacted us wasn’t talking about people
think I can say this safely enough -- Homeland Security. He was getting fried by solar flares. What he was saying is that there is
called in to work for them. And he came forward secretly to us going to be something here that’s going to influence our
and stated that there would be a pole shift. There would be what I electronics all over the world.
guess Ed Dames has called a “kill-shot” from the sun, and I
believe, a magnetic pole shift as well.
Then he said that there would a [#2] magnetic pole reversal
which we’re given to understand is already in progress. And it
B: What was interesting is that we got a one-liner email. And we doesn’t affect our everyday lives very much, but it causes whales
get many, many one-liners from people, saying, you know: Great and dolphins to end up getting lost and beaching themselves in
job on your site. We really like what you’re doing. Good luck to the wrong place.
you guys. And we usually, you know, send a reply saying: Hey
thanks a bunch. But he signed himself a name of somebody who
I recognized. And I got back to him saying: Are you who I think And it causes all kinds of interesting effects on our minds, the
you are? [laughs] who was a name that many of your listeners way that we think, because we are electromagnetic biophysical
would recognize. beings, at least at the physical level, and as the Earth’s magnetic
field starts to go through its various fluctuations, we are all
affected behaviorally by this, which is very, very, very
17
interesting. As that destabilizes, we destabilize as well And that’s what Dan Sherman was. So he rebelled. He became a
emotionally at least to some degree, to the degree that, you whistleblower. And you can find his website. I believe it’s called
know… We are spiritual beings operating this body through the aboveblack.com.
interface of our brains, which is an electromagnetic environment,
essentially. At any rate, when we get information, it often becomes
substantiated from more than one place, and so this idea of an
And then finally, he said, [#3] the pole shift. That’s like a kind of electromagnetic breakdown of the grid has been substantiated
a slam-dunk, yeah? And now, he said this before we got the news from a number of different angles, people who don’t know
from Dan Burisch in 2007, as a result of the decommissioning of anything about each other.
the Stargates and Looking-glasses, that the pole shift had been
averted. So this is not contradictory information. It just confirms, G: Have you guys got any idea as to how folks, THE POWERS
basically, that this was what was in the cards at that time in 2006. THAT BE, the Illuminati or whatever, are planning on
maintaining their own survival, for perpetuating their staying on
And what’s really interesting is, you know, how come a brilliant top of the heap, so to speak?
scientist, whose name is well-known in the public arena, is
contracted to the Department of Homeland Security? I mean, K: Our understanding, again, is the underground bases is what
that’s really interesting. And of course, as an Englishman, I they’ve provided for themselves. And this fits in with what Dan
couldn’t really understand this at first. Burisch talked about in terms of the future humans coming back
and saying that a certain group of humanity goes underground. I
But then a number of my American friends helped me to mean, there are huge underground cities that have been built for
understand that the Department of Homeland Security… This is the time when the sun would become overactive, for the shift on
like a very innocuous name for basically an over-riding the planet…if we have such a thing as a pole shift. So all of these
intelligence organization that’s senior to just about everything things have been provided for, again, by The Powers That Be,
else, and is handling not just issues of immigration and border and they’re well aware of it.
control, but major, major areas of anything that’s related to
national security. And it’s just got an innocuous name that looks The trouble is, for them, in essence, is that the things that they
like it was invented by George Orwell. were planning for don’t seem to be in the works any more, for a
number of reasons, one of which is that the consciousness on the
So, that’s my enlargement on that. planet is changing, and that we, because we are co-creators of our
own destiny, are able to affect the future of what is happening.
G: The thing that’s so frightening about that is, if all of our And that as humanity wakes up -- and this is what our whole
electronic systems go down, it’s going to disrupt everything quest on Camelot was all about, was to wake up as many people
globally, the banking system, everything. Certainly what’s going as possible, to get onboard and know what was really going on,
on now is not good, but if we have something of that magnitude, break through the matrix, if you will -- such that we can actually
that’s going to cause an incredible collapse of just about change the program.
everything.
And so that seems to be happening. We’ve gotten several
K: Right. Well, actually Henry Deacon has come forward and indications that it is. However, there are also very strong
has been talking to us about this electromagnetic “shot” that will indicators that at the moment we are approaching a very
happen at some point. And he actually says it will be induced by important time --which is right now through the month of
The Powers That Be, or could be. And he talks about October -- in which The Powers That Be may want to do
safeguarding your electronics by wrapping them in aluminum foil something drastic in order to coalesce their power and stay afloat,
and burying them in the dirt. [laughs] And on top of that, even at least in the United States. That would be the Neocon faction.
cars navigate and are run by computers, so you have to And that they apparently…
understand how far-reaching this really is.
If you listen to our recent audio interview with David Wilcock,
And then, at the same time, we had Dan Sherman, even before he gives a wonderful summation of what went down in Georgia,
that, come forward, and talked about being actually, you know, and how the Israelis had planned to attack Iran from Georgia, and
genetically engineered by the ETs and the US government to be how that plan was actually worded, and how the Russians got hip
an ET interpreter, trained as an interpreter by the military, to to that.
operate during that time, this unique time, when the
electromagnetic grid would go down. And you have to understand that within the US military and the
whole Neocon faction you’ve also got MJ12, and you’ve got
It’s unclear how long it’ll be down for, but one assumes that if elements which are onboard with the Illuminati Agenda and are
you’re gonna train a group of ET communicators… And one trying to make the depopulation through war, through disease,
might want to delve into why you’d need ET communicators through Earth changes, whether they’re provoked or allowed to
when you have electromagnetic grid shut-down. That means that just happen. There’s one group like that.
THE POWERS THAT BE are going to be communicating with
the ETs during that time. And they have no other way to do it And then you also have what is called often by our people, the
except psychically, with what are in essence trained psychics. “White Hats” who will work behind the scenes to try to make
sure that these things don’t happen the way The Powers That Be
would like them to.
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D: Kerry, so these White Hats are…? Generals? B: I’m just quoting that because those were the words he used.
K: Apparently they’re generals in the military. They’re people K: That is war with Iran, just to clarify that.
like… Mike McConnell could be termed a white hat. Certainly
Dan Burisch would be termed a white hat. [Mike McConnell] is D: Right.
the one who came forward with the National Intelligence
Estimate that ruined George Bush’s plans to paint Iran as, you
know, having nuclear weapons that were… B: Yeah. And we got an email two days ago saying that this guy
had been deployed to the Middle East. So…
G: He undermined it. Sure. Thank god!
K: Actually, he’s being deployed this week. [The email] was a
few days ago, so it was “next week” and now it’s this week.
K: Exactly. Now, there are always, you know, there’s a
punch/counter-punch, as you can imagine. If you watch the news,
you can actually watch this happening in the various reports. As So we have a blog on the front of Project Camelot that we now
controlled as the media is, you can still watch their, sort of, roll- keep, because one of the things we realized that we had to do was
out and read between the lines if you become skilled at it, and if to take the backlog of information that we have as Camelot and
in essence you have the kind of backdrop of what Camelot has help people to use that to interpret news events that are going on.
investigated --and, you know, numerous other, certainly,
researchers and investigators, like Jordan Maxwell, David Icke, And also to be able to report other whistleblowers and people that
both of whom we plan to be interviewing in the next week or so report information to us that’s not long enough for, say, an
at the Bay Area UFO Conference. interview or even a whole page, but is sometimes very key
information telling people what’s happening and what may be
D: Very interesting stuff. Kind of leaves you pondering a lot of happening very soon. So that’s our blog on the first page of
things. And I definitely need to go spend some time, more time… Project Camelot. So it’s a good place to check in and see what’s
I’ve watched some of your videos, but not enough, I don’t think. really new.
If you’ll hang with us, we’re going to be back with Bill Ryan and
Kerry Cassidy of Project Camelot. So hang tough, we’ll be back But to continue, Bill, why don’t you tell how the information
in just a few. [break] about October is actually starting to really stack up.
And welcome back everybody. We’re into our second hour B: Yeah. It’s starting to stack up. And the analogy that I use is
tonight. This is Doug Kelley here with Grant Rubendunst. This is that of data points on a graph. It’s like, if you are collecting
an interesting conversation, huh Grant? information and you’re plotting it on a graph -- and I say this
because I’m a trained scientist quite a long time back. But if you
G: Absolutely. Welcome everybody. We’re happy to have you. get data-clustering, then it means something. This is not random.
And we’ll be taking your calls. We welcome your calls and any You start to see a shape forming. You start to see trends forming.
questions you might have in the chatroom.
And we’ve seen this data-clustering pointing towards October for
D: Sounds good. And we’re of course talking with Bill Ryan and quite a while. And this e-mail that we got just a couple days ago
Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. Welcome back to the is just the latest confirmation. It’s like, well OK, the guy’s gone
program. What’s gonna be coming up in the near future? to the Middle East. You know … Ohhh … you know. What does
this mean? I won’t swear now, but I did when I read the e-mail.
B: Oh boy! Right! What’s gonna be coming up in the near
future? To go back … Now this is interesting because there are
interesting points that come to this. We were contacted in May
2007 -- that’s pretty much 18 months ago now -- by somebody
Let us start with an anecdote. It’s one of these little anecdotes who was… We weren’t contacted directly, but we were contacted
that’s quite a good place to start. This is an email that we got two by an intermediary for somebody who was associated with one of
days ago and it was on the back of a whole bunch of emails that the Montauk Projects, who was involved in the Montauk Project
we got a little bit earlier on in the summer, from somebody, a in 1984. And this another whole area which you can do two-hour
regular person. And there are lot of regular people who are very show on just that alone.
alert and aware, who follow our work, watch our site, and who
know people in high places or in the intelligence agencies, so
they say. The Montauk Projects, we are assured, were real. They had to do
with time travel, time manipulation, all the mess of stuff that I
was talking about in the first hour. And this guy… In 1984, one
We were first contacted by this person in July, who said that he of the things that they were doing, was they were messing around
had a friend in the alphabet agencies who we had reason to as I was describing, using technology that they barely
believe was fairly senior. who said that if they were going to be understood, with fixing up, manipulating, and peering into, over
deployed to the Middle East, then war would be a done deal. the time horizon, into future timelines.
Unquote. That war was a certainty.
And this guy said that for years he had been talking about what
D: All right. he recalled from that project, that in 2007, 2008, there would be
two main markers of that time period, one of which would be
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food riots, OK? And we got this, as I said, in May 2007. We And he said: You know, I can’t remember, but I read this. I read
didn’t publish this information because we didn’t believe him. that Hillary was off the ticket but something really weird would
We thought: Food riots? People are gonna think we’re crazy. happen and she would end up back on the ticket again. And it
And we sat on that information. was connected with the election being postponed for a couple of
months.
The other component of what he said besides the food riots, was
he made reference to what he called the King George Scenario. I just had these chills going down my spine.
And this was in 1984 he heard it. And King George refers to
George Bush. They knew about him as the future president in D: No kidding.
1984, 16 years before he was elected. And they called it the King
George Scenario because kings aren’t elected. Kings get to stay
in power all the time, and they never step down after 8 years. B: Now, I’m just reporting a conversation that I had, and Henry
could not remember the details, because, as happens with many
people behind the curtain of black-ops, they’re exposed to
The King George Scenario apparently was that some event would documents, they’re exposed to plans. Some of these things do
occur before George Bush, before his term of office ended, that change.
would actually create the need, the false need, or the fake need or
whatever, for him to stay in power. And we’re still waiting for
this. OK. But the thing that is so hard to believe and so alarming to believe
is that many of these global events are orchestrated and
choreographed years or even decades before.
This may or may not happen because timelines do change. But in
the metaphor told us by another one of our witnesses, Jim Sparks
-- who is a multiple, almost all-the-time, fully-conscious Carol Rosen, who we don’t know and we haven’t talked to, but
abductee, who was told a whole bunch of stuff by his abductors, many of your listeners will know, who worked closely with
and shown some pretty alarming pictures of a potential Earth Wernher von Braun, went on record with the Disclosure Project,
future -- is saying that she learned about the invasion of Iraq in 1991
(Operation Desert Storm) back in the 1970s. She sat in on
meetings where this was being planned and being discussed.
He was given to understand that time is like a huge river. You
think about like the Nile or the Mississippi or the Amazon, just
this giant river that’s flowing along and we’re flowing down it. The whole thing is being choreographed right from the
And it flows in a direction. And you can change the flow of this beginning. That’s just one little example. And so we’re left with
river with enough energy, but it’s always gonna want to keep on this snippet of extraordinary information, Henry saying: You
flowing in the direction which has been. You can change it, but know what? Just watch out, because if something were to happen,
it’s not easy. If you just lob a few rocks into it, it’s not going to Hillary’s back on the ticket.
make any difference. It needs to be a big-time change. And you
can even divert it, but it still wants to flow back in the direction The reason why I made reference to what Jim Sparks said about
in which it was flowing in the first place. It’s kind of got its own the flow of time being like a giant river… you can divert it, but
inertia. you better keep it in place with a lot of energy. Otherwise it’s
going to try to head back to where it was flowing and where it
And so are watching to see whether this timeline has changed. In wants to flow in the first place, like water flowing downhill.
the meantime, our contact is expecting this to happen.
If Hillary is on the ticket, there’s good reason to believe that
Now, more stories here, because I was talking to Henry Deacon we’re all in a great deal of trouble, because what happens after
about this. Henry Deacon is our black-ops insider source that we that is a whole bunch of nuclear exchanges.
were talking about in the first hour. He knew about timelines, he
knew about the future human stuff, he knew about the Roswell Now we’ve got George Green, who we haven’t yet spoken about
catastrophe … catastrophe because of the time device that was in this conversation. George Green, for those of your listeners
recovered in the crash which then they started tinkering with to who don’t know him… He was an ex-Air Force engineer. He was
create all these time loops and paradoxes that have not yet been in banking. He was in construction. He was in politics. He has a
resolved. lot of friends in high places. And he is also somebody who has
been in contact with the Pleiadians and other extra-terrestrial
I said to him… I was talking to him about what Dan Burisch sources, for quite a number of years. He has a very unique
referred to as Timeline 1, Version 83 and saying: You know résumé, as it were. And he’s been talking about this stuff for
what? At least the timeline has changed, because it doesn’t look quite a while.
like Hillary is going to be president. She’s off the ticket. She’s not
even the vice presidential candidate to Obama. This is not gonna One of the things that inspired us to create Project Avalon was
happen. because George Green said that in his communications that he
has received from the Pleiadians -- the Pleiadians being off
Henry said: You know what? I feel really uneasy about this planet, human-appearing, benevolent, extra-terrestrials; maybe
because of something I read many years ago. they come from another place in time, we don’t know. But he
gets a lot of information from them. He said that it’s almost too
late. This is what he said. Almost too late. And he made
And I said: What are you talking about? references to a bunch of people he calls “the ground crew.” He
wrote a little book which… He almost kind of took this book by
20
dictation, which is available on his website for free. It‘s called K: OK, well Hawkeye is sort of a whistleblower from within the
Messages for the Ground Crew. Illuminati. He calls them “The Roths.” [laughs] And he says
that… Well, I can’t… I have to be very careful as to how much
D: You have the URL for that? detail I go into because we do want to protect him. We published
a lot of information from him on our blog which is, again, on the
front page of Project Camelot.org.
B: Yes, it’s called nomorehoaxes.com.
And he was basically telling us all the same things that Henry
K: It’s actually a set of three books. Another one’s called Deacon was telling us, that we were getting from other sources,
Embracing the Rainbow. Another one’s called Handbook for the George Green, and a number of other deep black sources. And
New Paradigm. The first one he wrote with the aid of the he’s a very interesting guy. He’s written us, I think, for the past
Pleiadians is Handbook for the New Paradigm and that was the year, and we’ve got a huge score of emails from him, basically
one that actually talked about people getting ready, moving into telling us it’s getting closer. The time’s getting closer. Their
rural areas, establishing small communities -- basically what agenda is being rolled out.
we’re attempting to do now with Project Avalon to provide a
network where that sort of thing can happen.
His point of view is that the… Whatever the White Hats are
trying to do, they’re actually not gonna be successful. I have to
But I have to say this book was written several years ago. So he say that because of his position, because he feels so oppressed, if
was way ahead of the curve. And now what his communicators you will… He’s, you know, heavily monitored. He used to work
are telling him is that we… the time is actually past for educating for the Illuminati. Basically he’s had to buy into their scenario.
people, that we are getting very close to the time when these He believes their power is pretty much a done deal.
events would actually start to happen.
B: What he said is that there would be a major event that he said,
And they do talk about a war behind the scenes between their basically… I mean, he used very dramatic language. He said it
faction, the Pleiadians and various other benevolent ETs, and the would be the coup d’etat for the human race and he said this
negative-oriented entities that are out there working with the US would in the first 10 days of October.
military among other groups, certainly the Vatican. So you see
there is a scenario behind the scenario that you actually have to
keep in mind. K: Right. And what’s weird about that is there’s also this
halfpasthuman website that’s also doing data mining on the web,
using language and computers to create… I guess they’ve been
But at any rate, we are getting information and George is one of doing a whole layout like a graph of where people are at and
the people that has been talking about the whole economic certain events. And they did it for 911. They predicted accurately
downturn. He has predicted this very accurately, what is even as the recent resignation within a day of Mushariff. We are hoping
we speak, what is happening here this month. We were told to possibly interview them. I know they’ve been interviewed by
September would be the month. And sure enough, it appears to Rense. But there’s a lot of information on their site about
be when the economy would begin to crash very seriously. October.
We had been told by him a year ago to put all our money in gold I have another little ingredient that just came to us recently,
or silver and get it out of the market. We followed his advice. which is, the Arlington Institute has apparently been alerted
Once upon a time that was really good advice. I have to say that somehow and they’re a think-tank, one would say, for certain
unfortunately The Powers That Be seem to be hitting the gold factions of the American government, certainly, in which they are
and silver markets very seriously the last month, which was collecting now data, and asking for dreams and visions of people
another indicator that something big was coming along, because pertaining to the month of October.
they were driving down the price of gold, one might think so that
they could, I guess, get into the market, and then be prepared for
what’s happening right now in which gold and silver are now So we’re getting such a coalition of evidence and information
starting to go back up. We’ve got Michael St. Claire also talking from so many different sources about this particular timespan. I
about these sorts of things, by the way. myself have had a dream, a prophetic dream, if you will. We’re
going to be interviewing Miriam Delicado who has a website
called alienbluestar.com. And she is a contactee from the
So what is happening, what we’re looking at right now, is Pleiadians as well, and she has been getting information about
information we’re getting from a lot of different sources and it all October.
is coming together around the month of October, basically saying
that in the month of October there seems to be some event that
seems to want to be taking place. It’s not gonna be a positive So we don’t know what the event is. We do know that it could be
event. I wish I could say it was, but it will have something to do something to do with postponing the election. We have heard that
with either postponing the election or making it such that the it is some kind of massive event, on the order of a 911-type of
Neocons will get their sort of agenda back on track after their thing, however we don’t know what.
debacle of Georgia. And we don’t know what the event is, so we
can’t actually say anything about… too much about that. G: Let me ask either one of you about this catastrophe. Is it just
some time in October? Is that what you’re getting or hearing? Or
B: Do you want to say anything about Hawkeye, Kerry? Tell are you getting anything about that? Is that what I’m
them about Hawkeye, our source. understanding here?
21
K: Well, we have to say that we’re not getting a specific date. We don’t really live in communities in the way that we used to.
We’re much more isolated. We’re much more mobile. And even
D: Well, you’re hearing… the family unit isn’t as strong as it used to be. And this is our
weakness.
K: Half Past Human is saying they have gotten… They’ve
charted it down to actually a date which is October 7th. What But back to Project Avalon, what we’re trying to do there is,
we’re getting is that it’s sometime in the month of October, and we’re trying to rekindle the spirit of community, because that
that there’s a build-up that has already begun. would be the strength if times become tough. We’re much more
likely to be able to have a smooth ride through whatever the next
few years brings for us if we know who our neighbors are, if we
B: Having said that, our source, Hawkeye, specifically said the are in touch with our families, if we forget our little squabbles
first ten days of October, which is an alarming correlation in and we learn how to work together with people who maybe we
itself. might have trivial disagreements with or whom we decide we
don’t like.
G: Which is really interesting, guys, because if you look the
developments that have been going on. It was in the news today And these communities don’t have to be avant garde
about Iran has once again, you know, thumbed their nose at the communities like Findhorn or Esalen or Damanhur or any of
European community about nuclear testing, about proceeding these other places. It could be a street, or it could be a district, or
with developing their nuclear abilities. And then, of course, we a city, or it could be a small bunch of people in an area who know
have the Pakistanis being very upset with the Americans who are that they can count on each other if things are difficult.
launching commando raids into Pakistan. It just seems like, you
know, maybe the pieces are falling into place here, you know,
especially in light of what’s been going on in Georgia as well. And this is what George Green, who I was talking about half an
hour ago, referred to when he talked about the Ground Crew, that
there are some people out there who will not listen to any of these
K: Well, you guys had asked us during the break if we could talk problems. They won’t be woken up. I mean them no disrespect,
about why we’re being able to get information out there, and if but they’re NOT awake and alert to what is happening, but other
we’ve been attacked in any way. people are. And the people who are listening to this show, by
default these will be those people who are at the front line, and
D: And that’s a great question. Let’s hang on to that one for just who are listening. They’re thinking: What can I do? What can I
a moment. We’re coming down to the bottom of the hour, the last do? Everyone’s situation is different.
half hour. Man, this time has gone fast. Jeepers! [break]
On Project Avalon which we formed so we could create
In the remaining time that we have, what would you like to say? solutions, we have a forum which is exploded into the most
What message would you really like to get out there? And I do extraordinary activity, thousands of viewers in just a few days.
have a question after you go.
And there are people there… There are whole threads on this
B: First of all, I’m a Brit, as you can tell. And during the Second forum which are devoted to groups getting together, people
World War the Brits experienced something which they called saying: Hey, listen, I’m in Idaho; who else in Idaho? Or: I’m in
The Spirit of the Blitz. And The Spirit of the Blitz was a New Zealand; who else is in New Zealand? Or: I’m in the Bronx
community spirit that arose spontaneously in London when it was and I’m stuck here, is there anyone else in New York? I want to
being bombed by the Germans. know who you are because I want to know who I can trust.
The authorities didn’t have to do as much as they might have had And these people are getting together. They’re forming groups,
to do because the citizens did it themselves. The citizens took they’re forming networks, they’re making plans and establishing
care of each other; they took care of each other’s medical needs; meeting places.
they took each other into their homes when their homes had been
wrecked. They put out fires. They provided food and water for Now, this doesn’t have to be like negative catastrophic thinking,
each other. because these are good things to happen even if nothing bad goes
down. And so, to some degree, it is about a renaissance. It is
The community spirit was incredibly strong. This is -- if you about a reconnection. It is about people connecting with each
don’t mind my waving our Union Jack here -- this is one of the other and rebuilding the kind of society and the kind of
reasons, and with American help of course, the Nazis were networking that is the sign of a healthy society. We’re finding
defeated. that our society is not as healthy as it used to be in the past. And
if these threats of geopolitical events spur us on to talking to
Now, we’re more vulnerable now than we have ever been before people we’ve forgotten how to talk to, then that’s actually no bad
because that community spirit -- in the days of the internet where thing.
people are partially connected by technology but also partially
disconnected by it -- we’re living in an age where we don’t know And the other thing I want to say, must more briefly than I have
our neighbors. We don’t know the people who live on the other just said, is that we create our own future. As the Buddhists say:
side of that anonymous door on the other side of the corridor in We are dreamers that are dreaming each others’ dreams. All of
our apartment block. this is a very solid-looking dream that we find ourselves in.
22
And the future is not written in stone despite all this high future that we’d like to see for ourselves. And that’s when we
technology that we were talking about, to do with timelines and will begin to change and turn the tide.
timeline variations. They exist probabilities and possibilities. And
we can create any future that we want, any future that we choose, And I have to say that I think what’s happening now is that that’s
and we human beings have the ability to do this. actually what’s going on. And we hope that Project Camelot and
Project Avalon are all part of that scenario which is unfolding.
Bill Birnes, who is the editor of UFO Magazine and a very well-
respected UFO researcher… at the end of his life he interviewed Because our planet is going through a major consciousness
Admiral George Hoover before he died. change. We're entering a place where we can create whatever we
think. Therefore, be careful what you think! Be careful what you
D: Bill Birnes didn’t die. Major Hoover… desire, because you will see it manifest quite instantly.
B: Admiral Hoover died. And before he died, Admiral Hoover And so, this is part of a new future that we have at our fingertips,
told Bill Birnes what all this secrecy was REALLY all about. really. And what is happening with the timelines that we’ve been
And it was really fascinating, because it’s like, well, OK, so some describing and the fact that suddenly all bets are off and suddenly
guys crashed in 1947. They had a weird aircraft and they looked they changed so quickly that plans that have been in place for
at bit funny… and why is this secret? Why? years and years by The Powers That Be and their minions --
which is just average people feeling that they are powerless,
And Bill Birnes was told by Hoover that it’s not about the giving their power over to the ruling class, and allowing them to
visitors. It’s not about their technology. It’s not even about the manipulate them -- if they take their power back and begin to
information that they brought with them about our future and rethink what it is we’re doing here on the planet. Because this is a
other things. grand experiment and the reality is that we are all spiritual beings
much far beyond our physical bodies.
He said that the biggest secret is the fact that we human
beings are more powerful than we have ever dreamed that we D: Well you know, excellent, excellent information. We are now
are. That is the biggest secret. We don’t know our own power. down to less than 2 minutes remaining, and wow, you know, a lot
And The Powers That Be don’t want us to know our power, and of stuff to think about, a lot of information! And you guys have
we are being kept in the dark. just been incredible. Let me repeat the websites:
projectcamelot.org and projectavalon.net. For a forum of
discussions on similar topics, these same topics and others, please
What Bill Birnes Said: visit the websites that Bill and Kerry have. Donate to their cause.
Admiral George Hoover, ONI ... said he KNEW Help them to continue their work.
that these entities were not so much
interplanetary, but they were literally time And we also invite you to visit paranexus.org -- we’re a
travelers, and the big secret is that they were us professional association of paranormal researchers -- as well as
from the future. our database, paranexus.net.
And that we and they have the same powers, We really want to say thank you to all of our listeners. I think we
and that was the real fear of the government: blew away our highs from before. We’ve had an awesome lot of
that we have the ability to manipulate reality listeners tonight, an amazing number. We really appreciate you
around us. We've always had that ability, we taking your time.
just didn't know how to use it...
Grant, amazing, huh?
We are being educated that we are animated hunks of meat, that G: Absolutely! And Bill and Kerry, it was a real pleasure to have
we are here by accident with no spiritual heritage, no purpose, no you on the show, and you know, if time permits we’d certainly
meaning to our lives. And that this is not true. And that if this like to have you come back in the future to continue putting the
secret got out, then it would be so easy to end this game that’s message out there. The work that you do is wonderful and truly
been in place for thousands of years with the Illuminati and the appreciated. I wish I could share with you all the comments, the
Luciferian Satanists that are running the show. wonderful comments, we’ve got in the chatroom about how much
folks appreciate the hard work that you do. So thank you so very
They want us to believe that we are powerless. And we are NOT much. It’s been a real, real pleasure and we’d like to get together
powerless. And that’s the message that I want to leave your with you folks again some time.
audience. So I’m going to step down from my soapbox there
[laughs] and Kerry can have the last few words. D: We are at the end of our rope here on the program, folks.
Thanks again so much. You have a great night. We’ll see you
K: That’s absolutely what we believe and how we try to live our next week. Goodnight.
lives. What is most important is to reach a ratio of the number of
awake minds on the planet that have broken free of the matrix. G: Goodnight everybody.
And who begin to understand what powerful co-creators we are.
And then all we have to do is unite with a vision for the positive K: Thank you.
B: Goodnight.
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Project Camelot:
Telephone Interview With Ann Eller
Sedona, Arizona, December 2006 (released in September 2008)
This is reminiscent of the Serpo Project. (Serpo.org is the website

in case you want to do more research about this.) As much as
Serpo may be a lot of disinfo, there is a grain of truth having to
do with the Secret Space Program, which is being investigated at
this time by Richard C. Hoagland.
I think you’ll enjoy this interview and we’re really pleased to be

able to present Ann Eller to you at this time. This is Kerry
Cassidy from Project Camelot.
Ann Eller: I got up and spoke at that first conference. Leo asked
Ann Eller & J. Allen Hynek me to say a few words. So I told everyone that Dr. Hynek sent his
best to all of them, and also went on to talk a little bit about the
research. And I happened to say: We don’t think you’re crazy.
In 1985-86, the last year of his life, Ann Eller was the personal The government is in cahoots with the aliens.
assistant to the very well known ufologist J. Allen Hynek. Hynek,
an astronomer and a physicist, acted as scientific adviser to three
consecutive UFO studies undertaken by the US Air Force: Kerry Cassidy: After that bombshell of a statement, we will get
Project Sign (1947-49), Project Grudge (1949-52), and the into the actual body of the interview. She made that statement
infamous Project Blue Book (1952-69). Starting out as a skeptic, during our interview as an outtake, and I just couldn’t resist
Hynek came to understand that the UFOs and their occupants putting it up front here...
were very real indeed.
Start of interview
As an experiencer, Ann reveals a fresh approach to what it was
like working for Hynek - as well as what Hynek really thought
K: Could you tell a little bit about how we got in contact with
and may have known about UFOs. She relates several anecdotes
each other? Because you actually found us, which is a little
including a slightly different twist on Hynek's involvement as
unusual.
technical advisor to Steven Spielberg on Close Encounters of the
Third Kind. This 28 minute interview, which we've only just
released in September 2008 (having extracted some of the audio A: Yes. I don’t know how I got to Project Camelot on the
from a corrupted video) is an interesting and important new internet, but, you know, one link lead to another, lead to another,
resource to all serious researchers and historians of the subject. and I found your link and started reading about your project. And
I thought, Well this is extremely worthy.
Introduction
I have felt most of my adult life that it was important to get this
Hi. This is Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. We had the information out to the general public and to blow the whistle on
good fortune a while back to interview Ann Eller, who worked the government and everything that they’ve kept under wraps for
for six months with J. Allen Hynek, and was good friends with all these years.
him until his death in 1986.
And so I signed up, giving my support to you, and in, I think that
We haven’t released the interview for quite some time due to a initial contact, I said, Oh, and by the way, I worked with Dr.
problem with synchronizing the sound to the picture, because of Hynek for six months as his personal assistant when he moved
what seemed to be an electromagnetic pulse that was sent to the out to Arizona. And then you got in touch with me. This was in
camera during the interview. We are now releasing just the audio, 1985.
because we feel that the content is so fascinating that - I think
you’ll agree - it’s worth salvaging. K: OK.
Because of her time with Hynek, she has a completely different A: I think I started around March of 1985 and my tenure there
take on what he might have thought about UFOs as well as what ended in October. I went back to the hospital in October. I was a
might have occurred during the consultation he did with Steven nurse at the time and left nursing for six months to do this with
Spielberg on Close Encounters of the Third Kind. He may have Dr. Hynek, because I thought it was an opportunity that I
been the one to suggest the scene that you see at the end of the couldn’t pass up.
movie, in which you see Richard Dreyfuss and a group of
scientists boarding an alien craft.
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K: OK. You told us that, actually before this ever happened, So I typed up all the dreams and got them off to him, with the
you’d been having some dreams. help of a dear friend, and I never heard anything more from him.
A: Yes. That’s how I first contacted Dr. Hynek. Along about… And it was probably six years later, I opened up the Phoenix
Well, my whole history started in 1960 when I read the article in paper and here the headline’s on the second page: Dr. J. Allen
the Readers’ Digest about Betty and Barney Hill. And at the end Hynek Brings UFO Research to Arizona. I couldn’t believe it!
of that article, the author said: Well, fact or fiction? We’ll leave it And it was practically in my back yard. It was just down the
up to the reader to decide. street, up Indian School. So I decided I had to be involved.
And my reaction was one of being incensed. I thought, Of course I was working at the hospital, nights. But one morning when I got
it’s real. How I knew it was real, I have no idea, but I knew it off from work, I drove over there and met Tina and Bryan, who
was real. were the couple that brought… were instrumental in bringing
Hynek to Arizona, along with a couple of other people. And they
So I was interested in aliens, UFOs, since 1960. But it was in, were living in this condo. And they were going to have the
probably 1976, I started having dreams, constant dreams, night research project there in their condo. And they needed somebody
after night after night, for about 4 years, of aliens, spacecraft, to set up an office.
UFOs, other planets, other worlds, government involvement,
helicopters, hidden bases… was all part of my dreams. And it So I said, Well, I’ve gotta be involved. Whether I feed the cat or
was just about ready to drive me crazy, like I told you, a little bit take the trash out, I didn’t care. I had to be involved. So I came…
like the guy in Close Encounters of the Third Kind with the I would work nights, come mornings, and set up the office and
mashed potatoes. [Kerry laughs]. set up the filing system and take calls. People were calling
already. I mean, they hadn’t hardly gotten settled but people were
But I started reading everything there was to read about UFOs. calling, reporting sightings.
But in every book I picked up was Dr. Hynek’s name. And I
decided, Well this is the guy that knows, that has all the answers, K: Now, this was during the time when Hynek was already, was
so I’m going to write to him and ask him just what’s up, and through… theoretically, through… working with the Air Force
could he at least point me in a direction, introduce me to and no longer working on Bluebook and all that, right?
somebody in Arizona that I could talk to about these dreams.
A: Yes.
So I wrote to him and didn’t hear a word from him for about nine
months. And then all of a sudden one night the phone rang and I K: That was all behind him.
picked it up.
A: That was all behind him. That project ended in 1969. So at
And he said, I’d love to speak with Ann Eller. that time, then, he left, and went to Northwestern University
where he was a professor of astronomy and set up CUFOS in
And I said, Speaking. Chicago. That was his UFO research project in Chicago. So for
those years, that’s what he was doing as a civilian.
And he said, This is Dr. Hynek.
And these people were able to convince him that he needed to
Well you could have knocked me over with a feather at that come to the southwest. And I suppose the weather in Chicago,
point. [Kerry laughs]. somehow, had a little to do with it, too. [Kerry laughs]. So they
moved out.
But he said, I’m interested. He said, I just found your letter. It
had dropped behind my desk and I just found it. And it was probably 2 weeks after I had started at the center
before I met him. And then I met him and I told him who I was,
that I was the person that had sent him the dreams. Of course, I
And that was very typical, to lose the letter and find it nine imagine that there were a thousand people that had done that.
months later. He had a quality of being sort of an absent-minded
professor.
But about a week later he asked me if I would come be his
assistant and set up his office. All his office supplies and
And so he said, I’m very interested in your dreams. And so we furniture were coming soon. And he said, I can’t pay you much.
chatted about those for a while. He said, I’ll pay you $100 a week and we’ll try to get funding.
And if we can get the funding in, then maybe we can make it a
And he wanted to know if I’d kept a log of them. And I said, permanent thing.
Well, sort of. I could probably pull it together. And he said he
had a colleague -- and it was either Switzerland or Sweden; I So I did it. I quit nursing and I went to work for him. And it was
think it was Switzerland -- that was doing a research project on a great relationship. We had a very warm and very respectful
these dreams, because they were worldwide. It was a worldwide friendship. I liked him a lot personally.
phenomenon.
I spent some time being very angry with him, but this was mostly
after he died, that he had, during his years at Project Bluebook,
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had hindered or injured so many people and their lives by K: And did you ever… because you would file documents for
explaining away their experiences and telling them that, no, they him, is this right?
didn’t see what they saw. It was Venus chasing the moon. It was
the swamp gas. It was an airplane. It was a weather balloon. A: Yes.
Whatever. But he was hired to be the debunker and he was doing
his job and he did a good job.
K: So did you ever come across, I don’t know, information about
Roswell or, you know, that kind of thing?
K: Mm hm.
A: Well, we came across a lot of documents that were
A: But I was very angry about that. Because at the end of his life, declassified, had been at one point Top Secret. But about 7/8 of
the last thing he said to me was: I have had my own experiences. the document would be blacked out, inked out, and you’d get
maybe a half a sentence here and a half a sentence there. So it
Now during the six months, I would periodically ask him: Have really didn’t mean a heck of a lot. I did see a list of the names
they contacted you yet? Have you seen a ship yet? [Kerry laughs] that were in Majestic 12.
You know, just kidding around. And we’d just joke about it.
K: Do you recall those names?
But he was very serious at this point. And when he looked at me,
he had that knowing look in his eyes: I’ve had my own A: Well, one of them was Rockefeller. That was a name I
experiences. And he took it to his grave. You know? Nobody else recognized. I might recognize some names. It seems to me there
knew that, that I know of. Maybe Mimi knew it, his wife. some admirals. And maybe Brzezinski was one of the names. But
we knew that President Eisenhower had had a meeting with the
K: So, to back up a little bit, he sent you out to cover a aliens at one of the Air Force bases. I think it was Holloman.
conference in Laramie, Wyoming, is that right?
K: When you say you “knew”… meaning you and Hynek? Or
A: Yes. It was a UFO conference of contactees and investigators. Hynek made you aware of this? Or, how did that work?
And it was held at the University of Wyoming, and Leo Sprinkle
was the host. He was professor of psychology at the university. A: I’m very reluctant to say that Hynek ever said anything like
He was also a hypnotist. He would put people under hypnosis and that. It was more Tina and Bryan and me, and all the people that
take them back and see if they’d had any contacts, if they’d had came through the center, all the information that we picked up
any abductions. There had been a little bit of criticism about the from people that came through the center.
way in which he did this and they weren’t sure whether it was
“totally professional.”
We were aware that Eisenhower had met with the aliens, and I
believe it was at Holloman Air Force Base, and that was back in
He said, Why don’t you just go up there and meet Leo? Check it the ‘50s.
out. Meet some of the other people. He said, I think you’ll enjoy
it. Because I enjoyed the personal side of the whole UFO
scenario, and the metaphysical and the spiritual aspect of it too. If you’ve read Alternative 3, that’s enough to put a crack in your
So I went. cosmic egg [Kerry laughs] about the government, you know,
being a benevolent government.
K: What you said before was, that Hynek was very into the nuts
and bolts? K: So was Alternative 3 something that Hynek would have also
been aware of?
A: Oh, yes. Very definitely. Very concerned about his
credentials. Didn’t want those being marred in any way, so was A: Oh, I think very definitely. Because in 1960 -- and he was
very tight-lipped -- very tight-lipped -- played everything very very much involved with the Air Force then -- in l960, that’s
close to his chest. And if we had an opinion, he’d keep it to when Alternative 3 took place. All those scientists got together,
himself pretty much, unless it had to do with the nuts and bolts. of which he was a scientist. Now, whether he was actually
He wanted tangible proof. He had to either see the ship, take a involved in any of their deliberations, I’m not sure.
picture of a ship, touch the ship, have some kind of radiation
from the ship… those kinds of nuts and bolts. K: Now what about Jacques Vallee? Because you said, is this
right, he was one of the people that visited Hynek?
K: Uh huh. And when you were working for him, did you ever
see pictures or photographs of UFOs cross your desk? A: Yes, he did. They were very good friends.
A: Yes. A lot of them. K: Do you think that he was, you know, I don’t know, maybe sort
of …
K: A lot of them. OK.
A: I don’t know about Jacques. Jacques was very prominent in
A: Old ones, you know, from years and years back, where the the UFO field. He did a lot of writing; very personable, very
film was bad, very grainy. Oh yes, lots of UFO pictures. important in France. Of course he was French but living in the
United States. And they did go to a high level UFO conference in
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Paris that summer of ‘85, he and Hynek. And it was the United But you have to … People don’t stop to ask themselves this
States, the French, the Japanese, and the Russians that met that question. Dr. Hynek was the civilian chief astronomer for the
summer. I was never told anything dramatic that came out of that United States Air Force for 20 years, from 1948 to 1969. He had
meeting. top level clearance, secret clearance. So for 20 years -- and this
was all in the area of unidentified flying objects -- for 20 years he
But the French were way ahead of us. They had already put out a was on the front line of what was happening. He has to have seen
booklet to the civilian population, what to do if you come across the alien bodies, the crashed craft.
a UFO parked, you know, in the field. So…
I think even more than that, the other operations that were going
K: Now you told us an anecdote about Jacques Vallee. Can you on that we’ve heard about, like Serpo and also… Because if you
repeat that for the camera? In other words, something about that remember, in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, of which Dr.
he was upset with Hynek over the swamp gas situation? Hynek was a technical advisor, there was a group of chosen
military people who went into the craft that were being
exchanged to go to the planet.
A: Yes. The story went -- and this came during a conversation
with Dr. Hynek, and I was sitting there -- was that they were
reminiscing about the swamp gas episode. And that Jacques was K: So in other words… Often we have wondered where Spielberg
upset with Hynek because he had gone on camera and had said, might have gotten his information to include that in the
This is swamp gas. And he said, Why didn’t you call me? Why screenplay. And what you’re basically saying here is that it’s
didn’t you? I would have come and we could have, you know, we possible that he got it from Hynek.
could have done this thing together.
A: It’s possible. Or it could have been… More the scenario
K: In other words, he could have thought of something would be, Spielberg would imagine to Hynek that, What if we
differently? Was that the implication? had some kind of an exchange program going on with the aliens,
and we put that into the movie? Would that be OK? And then
Hynek might say, Well, yeah. You could explore that or maybe
A: That was the implication, that it would have been done a lot put that in.
better than it had been.
I think that’s a little more realistic. Dr. Hynek was going to be
K: The swamp gas was a poor excuse for … OK. very careful about what he said to anybody because… Well, the
dragon was breathing down his neck, too, during all that time.
A: So that was one incident.
K: When you say “the dragon was breathing down his neck,” was
K: And then, some of the other people that came to visit Hynek there any evidence that he was visited by people or that any
while you worked for him. Can you remember anything in pressure was brought to bear? Did he ever receive phone calls or,
relation to these people? you know, were you aware of any kind of surveillance upon him?
A: Dr. Willard Smith came and he was a very dear friend of Dr. A: No, I wasn’t. I can’t tell you that I was. We knew that all of
Hynek’s. They were old and close friends and they looked like our phones were bugged. We knew that to be a fact. And right
cosmic twins. They were about the same height, stature, looked after I first started working there, I developed migraine
just alike. He was from Florida. He was an astrophysicist. And headaches, which I’d never had before, and they lasted for 10
they just, they were just good fellows, you know? years. Now, whether that had anything to do with any
psychotronics or anything, I have no idea. But as far as I know,
Dr. Smith, I understand, got some of Dr. Hynek’s files when Dr. there were no Men in Black. There were no rough-‘em-up guys
Hynek died. They were very close. And he did visit him that that I was aware of ever coming.
summer and Dr. Hynek went to Florida to visit him also. They
would work together in cahoots all the time. K: But he never crossed any lines, from the sound of things.
K: OK. So, both of them were involved in investigating… I’m A: No. He didn’t.
assuming “the work,” when you say “work,” it was investigating
UFO reports? K: He basically bought into the entire party line, so he wasn’t a
threat in any way, so it’s unlikely he would be pressured, at least
A: Yes. overtly.
K: What about crashes? Did you ever see information about A: Right.
crashed disks? Did he ever…
K: What about his death? Did you think that his death was a
A: We saw... There was a film that we got into the center that we completely natural occurrence?
looked at that was supposedly a crashed UFO in Canada. I
remember the lights flashing, the red and white lights on top of A: There was a lot of speculation in the center that it was not. But
this craft. And that’s all I remember about that, about a crash. So how do you know? And how do you prove that? Certainly a man
there was one in Canada that we saw.
27
of his age – and I want to tell you about Haley’s Comet, so don’t working both sides of the street? But until that time, I would not
let me forget. have ever guessed it. He played it very straight the whole time I
was there.
K: OK.
There was one other incident. It was a letter that I found that was
A: But certainly a man of his age, 76, it’s a very natural thing for unopened, and it was postmarked 1954. And you know, Hynek
him to develop prostate cancer. But it didn’t get better. And he was professor of astronomy at the Ohio State University for a
sought specialists in St. Louis at Barnes Hospital, and also in San while. And this came from an Asian or oriental. It was an oriental
Francisco. And it just metastasized and then he eventually died in name. It was either like Wong or Ling or something like that.
March of ‘86.
And it said, basically, that this person -- he could have been a
But what I want to tell you is, Hynek was convinced that he student, he could have been a colleague at the university -- had
would die at the age of 76 in 1986. He was born in 1910, the year discovered these signals in their radio telescope. They had
of Haley’s Comet and he knew that when Haley’s Comet came identified these signals coming from the area of Venus and that
back around again, 76 years later, that he’d be ushered out. they were “intended,” or they were transmissions, or they were…
there was an intelligence behind these transmissions. It wasn’t
just something that was happening in the weather.
K: Really? Did he tell you this?
K: And so this letter had remained unopened until you saw it and
A: Yes, he did. He told me that. decided to open it. Is that right?
K: That’s fascinating. A: That’s right. I was the secretary and I thought, Good grief,
there’s a letter from… And it wasn’t hard for me to imagine he
A: I thought that was interesting, too. And in fact that’s exactly just forgot to open it.
what happened.
K: OK.
K: So, just to wrap up, what else can you tell us? Are there any
other pieces of information that you think might be useful to the A: So I opened it and I was shocked. And then I realized that this
public in relation to Hynek? was probably sent to Hynek for Hynek to hold in case, at such
time somebody else discovered these transmissions and declared
A: Well, I would like to mention the log that he had. One day I life on Venus and got the credit for it, that this guy had done it
discovered, on the bookshelf as I was tidying up, this log that he first. So I showed it to Dr. Hynek and he just made light of it and
had written in every day and it was in code. And I thought to took it and I never saw it again.
myself, Why in the world would he be keeping a daily log in
code? And the code looked something like Morse Code, like dot-
dot-dash kinds of things. There were no words written. There K: I hope you enjoyed this interview. This has been a Project
were just the dates and then this type of code. Camelot production. And this is Kerry Cassidy. Produced by Bill
Ryan and Kerry Cassidy. Thank you.
And of course, you know, we’re always suspicious of everything
in this UFO field. And I thought, Is it possible that he could be
28
Project Camelot:
Jim Sparks and Bill Holden:
'Making the Connection' Transcript
Jim Sparks and Bill Holden: Making the Connection
Las Vegas, April 2008
BH: Now, this was where Bell Lab came in, ‘cause Bell Lab had
the UFO that was found at Roswell... Bell Lab had that.
JS: The original?
BH: The original, okay? And then they were saying, “Well, we
need to get that craft back!”
And they were suing Bell Lab, okay? The US government was
suing Bell Lab and General Electric, and one other. I don’t know
whether it was AT&T, or whoever it was. But this was all
technology that was gained from the ETs, the graylings, and the
reverse engineering that came off of that craft.
JS: Mm hm.
BH: Okay? For instance, like it went from... In radio

When we were in Las Vegas to interview John Lear, we called
communications they were able to go to... I don’t know the
both Bill Holden and Jim Sparks to see if they'd like to meet with
technology and everything, but anyway - the upgraded
us again. We also suggested that they might like to take the
technology came from that. Laser came from that, all this other
opportunity to meet one another for the first time, in our
stuff. The electromagnetic propulsion system came from this
presence.
craft, ‘cause that’s how they moved - through the electromagnetic
field.
We were privileged to capture on camera, with their permission,
the most interesting conversation which ensued. We hope you
And Gordon Cooper... I asked him, because we were dear, dear
enjoy it as much as we did.
friends, and I did a personal interview on him and everything.
And I asked him - I says, “Well, have you ever flown a UFO?”
Start of conversation
And he says, “Yep!”
Bill Holden: ... and everything that was going on. But what it
was... it was the testing of the lasers, okay? They had ‘em And I said, “Well, what’d you think about it?”
mounted on backpacks, they had ‘em mounted on helicopters,
and they had ‘em mounted on jeeps. They had ‘em mounted on
He said, “Well, it was great – it was stopping the thing!” [laughs]
trucks, whatever it was. They weren’t gonna run out there and
He said, “How d’ya stop it?!”
kill ten thousand people, so they were just did it with the animals.
JS: Did he feel the G-forces or not?

Jim Sparks: And we’re in the ‘60s still, right?
BH: Uh... No! No. He said there was no G-force.

BH: It was the early ‘60s, right.
The other thing that was unique about it was when we did the
JS: Early ‘60s? Kennedy era, or just after?
interview at the Alisal Ranch. I can’t remember the colonel’s
name, but he was an Army Lt.-Colonel in the National Guard that
BH: I think it was a little after that. But the thing that you’re lived on the ranch. His father was the one who went out and
looking at, is that this was all part of the exchange of the picked up the parts and actually ended up putting ‘em in the
technology. Cadillac convertible and bringing them back to the farm, and
buried it and did all that stuff with it.
JS: Right. Right.
29
Well, at this conference they brought some of the uh, stuff from BH: Yeah.
that crash that they had been keeping all this time. And one of it
was a little aluminum I-beam about so long, about so wide and JS: That was in the early ‘60s. And so what I’m curious about is
about so long, [indicates a couple of inches in length] and it had what lead to that sort of interaction even then? Was that
these hieroglyphics on it, and I said, “Wait a minute, I’ve seen stemming from the ‘40s and ‘50s, where there was actually
this – this is like the Arabic Sanskrit that went with the contact in that respect? Because you’ve got so many different
Phoenicians!” scenarios, as you well know.
And somebody pulled it up and all of a sudden they started BH: You better believe it!
matching up some of the symbols.
JS: From, “of course, we’re not interacting with them.” From,
JS: With the Arabic and Phoenician? “they don’t exist.” To - you know, “we’re not official.” To,
“we’re not interacting with them.” - to all these different, you
BH: Right, it was on there. So that was real interesting. know, stories, ranging from...
We had a Russian astronaut there - we had two KGB members BH: Right. There’s been a lot of military interaction - a lot of Air
there, and the security and everything that went on at this thing... Force, a lot of Navy. A huge Navy...
I would have sworn that the president was gonna walk in on this!
We had two of our astronauts there. We had a couple of generals. JS: Friendly. So we’re talking friendly.
We had - I mean, it was neat!
BH: Friendly? It’s interaction, from the development of exchange
JS: Do you think this was contact, you would know I would say - and everything else that’s going on. And from developmental -
contact stemming from the ‘40s and ‘50s that bring it to the point all this time through the ‘60s I saw it was developmental, okay?
where they were interacting this way? Or was this recent
interaction from that period in the ‘60s?
And then when I started doing research as far as into the tunnels -
Area 51, talking to an engineer that was talking about that there
BH: I think what happened and why we had this interview – that was a tunnel from ‘TA-39’, out of Deadwood, all the way to Area
was in 1995, okay, when this took place. 51, which is over 150 miles. And they were able to travel this
thing in 35 - 37 minutes, okay?
JS: Okay.
JS: Was it in the tunnels?
BH: Okay? Now what’s interesting about this was - all the people
that were at this conference - it was a fact-gathering, and it was a BH: In the tunnel.
basis for everyone getting together to be able to understand how
big this was.
JS: When you say they were talking about the non-humans...
JS: Right.
BH: Right, yeah. The engineers were talking about it. They said
as far as that technology and exchange and everything that took
BH: Okay? Because everybody, basically... there was pockets of place, and it was like the development... in talking to the engineer
it, pockets of information... it was basically on that. The first time who was actually one of the patent-holders that developed the
I met Bob Brown was in 1995 when I gave the first talk right here nuclear boring machine - that kind of thing. But I was, oh, I tell
in Las Vegas ... no, it was in Mesquite at the conference there ... you... with the experiences that you’re talking about, it was very
and that was phenomenal, okay? To stand up in front of 1500 much like the personal one that I had, when I was stationed down
people and tell your story. It was... Oh God, it was phenomenal! in Florida in Coco Beach.
JS: Sure! JS: I was going to say, what part?
I guess what I’m asking is, just to put some input with you on BH: Okay... Coco Beach, and this is in late summer.
this... for myself, it started in mid-1988 and not wanting anything
to do with it. And it was directly, you know, right from my home,
and it was ambiguous - there was no frame of reference. The JS: I used to surf there in my early 20s. [laughs]
M.O. so to speak, was isolation, fear, confusion. And that lead
into a 6-year period that almost was... made no sense. And then it BH: So I’m down there fishing right there on the river, and I had
went on from there, from, years 7 to years 13, where I saw an just put my poles out and everything and I had just cast out, and I
agenda; and then from years 13 to the present, where it has leaned back against a tree and everything. And the next thing I
evolved, without going into a lot of detail. So whatever campaign know, I wake up... I’m here. I haven’t pulled the lines in; I
that they were on for myself, it started in ‘88. haven’t fished or anything. I had been abducted, okay? And that’s
where I’m lying on a pedestal table, and...
So I was just a little bit curious that you had these interactions
when you said, almost, you know, to the shoulder... right? Or that JS: So here you are at point ‘A’ - fishing, near Coco Beach, and
close? then you black out, so to speak.
30
BH: ... I’m gone. JS: Yeah! Right!
JS: And now you’re at point ‘B’. BH: I’m gone!
BH: I’m on the craft, okay? I’m in this domed craft. No visible JS: Exactly!
lighting fixtures you can see.
BH: And it has been such a phenomenal experience, because I
JS: Right. saw these lights as a child back in the ‘50s, out on the farm. And
then I had my encounter - as far as in ‘62, I had the second
BH: But it’s... you have an iridescent light in there. sighting. And then I went on the three missions that were actual
Air Force military missions and saw the craft, saw the ETs.
JS: What years are you talking?
So there’s no question in my mind. I knew it was real.
BH: This is in ‘71 or ‘72.
JS: Yeah, right - what was the gist of the, uh... as you may think
it would be, back in the ‘70s, with the 17 people being abducted?
JS: Son of a bitch! So they tagged your butt back from the ‘60s. What was related to you at that point?
BH: Oh, yeah. BH: Nothing else was said. It was all classified - because I was
told not to discuss it with anybody, not to reveal it to anybody.
JS: And they pulled you in the ‘70s, at least the conscious aspect And basically, not knowing anything at that time, technically - oh
of it. God, I wish I knew then what I know now, as far as... I’d a’ taken
notes. I would have done all kinds of stuff.
BH: Okay. Now, here’s what’s funny - I’ve got one tall and two
short ETs on my left hand side. I’m looking up and there’s no JS: Right-right-right.
other thing as far as in this domed room, but one uh, seal that’s
up on the ceiling, okay? And it’s three gold stars on a brilliant BH: And then I turned around and I told friends and everything,
blue background, okay? and others that have been abducted, or are going through
experiences, or researchers, all of this. In fact - all three of the
When I came back I contacted my commander. He says, “You be missions, I had to sign a twenty-year nondisclosure agreement
in my office at 0700!” under penalty of, you know, full prosecution and everything. And
I didn’t... I didn’t say anything about it.
So I went in the next morning and I get interviewed and
everything like this, and I tell him all about what happened. And JS: So then, of course you honored it, right?
after a couple hours of interviews and everything, this individual
said, “I know you’re curious and everything as to whether you BH: Yeah, right. But after that, in ‘95, I...
are the only one. Let me tell you this; men, women - military and
civilian, that had been abducted - the one commonality that was
between all of you...” JS: Spilled the beans? [laughs]
Every one of them described that seal. Every one of them saw BH: The title of my speech and everything is ‘Let the Truth Be
that same seal. And it was from one ET to nine ETs that had been Known’ because all this other BS is... In ‘96, when I did my tour,
in the room and everything. But every one of them said about my speaking tour - when I went to Philadelphia, when I went to
being on a pedestal and from that... [displays forearm] New York, when I went to Washington and everything - I
interviewed a hundred people from age 18 into the 80s. And I
said, “All I want to do is ask you one question, and I want a ‘yes’
JS: I see it... I feel it. or a ‘no’:do you believe in UFO and ET phenomena?”
BH: Right there. That’s been there ever since. Now this is 1996. Tell me what the percentage you think were
“yes” at that time.
JS: And see, you’re like myself; perfectly content with this...
JS: Say the years again?
BH: The same way I am.
BH: ’96.
JS: ...with my body.
JS: At that time, I would say, off the top of my head... 40 to 60
BH: They ask me – a number of people have asked me: “What do percent?
you feel about it? What do you feel about the whole thing?” And
I says, “Beam me up, Scotty!” BH: It was over 90 percent believed it.
31
JS: Wow! Wow. BH: Yes.
BH: And it’s amazing, because I would say the population JS: So, unfortunately we’ve in the past - again, advised through
believes it. They absolutely believe that there’s UFOs and ETs; them or by them - that we’ve taken the course of self-destruction,
and again it’s just a matter of... one day soon we’re gonna really where a handful of us survive. And then it may take a few
know about it. And then what is going to be our involvement, hundred thousand years, in some cases several million years, to
how are we... what’s gonna happen? bring us where we are today, and the same scenario has played
itself out. Did you want to comment on that? Because I see it...
JS: How can we integrate with what it’s all about?
BH: I do.
BH: Yeah. Yeah.
Everybody tells us that we’ve only been here for ‘x’ [number of
JS: You know, I guess what came to mind was – again, back to years], okay? The Bible - and we, as a ‘spirited’ civilization –
the fishing expedition in Coco Beach - I sort of got a sense from humanity - as far as with the spirit, that’s only been for a period
what you were talking about, just a sense – that that may have of... we as Christians know it as 6,000 years, okay? The Greeks
been the early stages of the human abduction scenario, without an see it as being 7,000 years.
agenda or without much of an agenda. Were you aware of much
of an agenda at that time, when it came to the masses of the Now I was in Peru, and I was part of a team that filmed the Nazca
people on the globe in general? Plains after the astronauts saw these signs on the Nazca Plain....
BH: No. Let me kind of put it this way: under separate occasions JS: Right. Right-right-right.
I’ve been given a message. I was given the message to tell this,
“Tell them to stop destroying Mother Earth.” BH: ... when they were coming back in. And then I was
physically on the Nazca Plain, stood inside the... as far as the...
JS: God damn! whatever the sign is.
BH: Okay - the second message, “Tell them to learn to love one And then I was inside the caves at Lake Titicaca and I saw the
another.” drawings on the walls of helmeted beings, craft, all of this. I was
in a building inside Lima - about 5,000 – 7,500 square feet - that
Thirdly, “Increase your mental and heart to a higher level.” had documented... there were skeletons. There were documented
collections there that had been dated and everything, that were
60,000 years old....
We only use 3 to 5 percent of our brain, and they’re telling us,
“Use it. Learn how to use the powers that you have within
yourself.” JS: Beautiful! Beautiful.
JS: Yeah. I like that they... BH: ... 80,000 years old, okay? So all of a sudden, “Wait a
minute - what happened to the Bible and 6,000, 7,000 years as
humanity and everything?”
BH: That was amazing.
Well, to me - a friend of mine told me what the word “Bible”
JS: It is amazing. The strongest... the emphasis - and you mention means: ‘Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth’. [Kerry laughs
three things and it’s almost similar - which is the first emphasis off camera]. It was given to us as a way of a lifestyle that is
for myself and others, is the environment. And, like you said, the loving one another. That’s what it’s all about.
planet, our planet – [we have] to clean up our own back yard
before we can even consider joining the galactic neighborhood.
JS: Right.
BH: Exactly!
BH: If we go through it, we look at the history, the fighting, the
devastation, the destruction.
JS: Also this issue with evolving, as far as the human species is
concerned... I don’t claim to embrace alien culture and I’m
suspicious. I have a healthy suspicion of what is advised at all God, the Supreme Being - okay? I was asked... my closing
times, and I let these things play themselves out before I’m statement - at the conference in 1995 at Bob Brown’s convention,
comfortable with, “Well, I believe now that this is what it is.” I was asked, “Do you believe in God?”
But the part about the environment is extremely important and I said, “Let me answer this: (as a young man, grandson of a
according...we are advised by them that this isn’t the first time Methodist preacher in South Georgia, and my growing up in the
that human beings have been where we’re at today on this planet Methodist church, I said) for me to believe that we are the only
- being the population, being the technology, being with its intelligent beings in all of God’s creations... no, I can’t believe
resources - and have gotten to this point... [to Holden] It looks that.”
like I’m striking a chord with you - where we can either self-
destruct or evolve. JS: Right.
32
BH: Okay? Secondly, that I believe in a Supreme Being that is What I’m finding fascinating here is that my initiation into this,
the creator of all animate and inanimate beings, objects, and life; and particularly the 6 years, as I mentioned earlier, has been that
that I choose to call God - and that’s the way I closed. of no frame of reference - ambiguous, without being able to
really get a feel as to why, what, where, when, or what it’s about.
JS: That’s very good. Very good.
In a sense, you... I see something similar here, although you
BH: And, God! I get some... operated on an official capacity and within the means of your
rank and what you were doing, but you were only privy - in a
sense, it was compartmentalized, so you were only privy to so
JS: I’m enjoying this thoroughly. much information...
BH: ... for me to have experienced all of this in my lifetime... BH: Right.
JS: Right. JS: ... and that’s what you pulled together in that period, and it’s
what I pulled together in that period. What I find fascinating here
BH: ... from a child on a farm in Georgia, and seeing the lights is - in essence, we’re dealing with non-human intelligent beings.
and asking, “What is that?” because it was a triangle of light that We’re dealing with beings who have evolved well beyond where
moved over the place. we’re at now, which I think you would, and I would, like to see
the same thing happen.
JS: What part of Georgia?
BH: Yeah.
BH: Macon - Forsythe, Georgia, at that time. But from there to
the experiences in ‘62, ’63 - the meeting with President Kennedy, JS: But going back to that, one of the first outstanding statements
and showing him the picture of those three UFO’s in Germany that you made, which is that the path that you were on from the
that were filmed the day before, and the number of UFOs that past, and the path from the past to the present, and the path from
had been seen and everything - and for him to ask me what did I my past to the present, although they had different beginnings,
think about it? it’s still leading to the same message, from what I’m pulling
together at this point.
And then I turned to him and I says, “What do you think, Sir?”
BH: Exactly.
And with that beautiful smile of his, he looked at me and he just
says, “I asked you first.” JS: So now we’re dealing with non-human intelligent beings that
we are commonly referring to as ‘grays’, interacting in an official
JS: Very wise man! [laughs] capacity, a military capacity - a government capacity, in your
respect. And in my respect, it’s purely a civilian capacity,
although I love my country - it’s number one, it’s first and
BH: And then I gave him basically that answer. But I wish, like foremost, there’s nothing else - yeah, as you understand. But
I’ve said so many times, I wish I knew then what I know now... nonetheless, on a civilian capacity, this is the same sort of
interaction. And I think it’s fascinating how it - and we’re just
JS: Sure, sure. first meeting here - so how it comes together like that at this
point.
BH: ... just to be able to ask the right questions, to see where
we’re going! BH: And I so agree with that because right now I’m a developer.
I’m trying to put some resources together. And everything I’m
putting in it is state of the art, green technology, desalinization
But I’ve been asked if I feared them - at no time have I ever
plants, waste remediation, 100% electric power and everything.
feared any of the encounters. I’ve looked forward to it. It was like
And then actually where I’m trying to go with it is, I want to take
me being a pioneer or Indiana Jones and everything, and going
it to electromagnetic, okay? Where it’s controllable
out there and seeing and discovering, and everything. I’ve
electromagnetic in the special field - and that’s something I’m
enjoyed it - I’ve enjoyed it immensely, and just like I’ve said so
working on right now.
many times, “Beam me up, Scotty!”
JS: You’re extremely... I take it you’re extremely science...

I’d go in a heartbeat.
you’re extremely environmentally sensitive, to that respect...
JS: Sure!
BH: I wasn’t.
Well, you know, I’m like you when I’m ever asked, you know;
JS: You weren’t until afterwards?
the issue with God or the Creator. When it comes to this, my
response is always the same, which is: it’s humankind - mankind,
who puts a cap or a limit on what God has created, which are the BH: Yeah. And it’s the kind of thing that... I was raised as a farm
mysteries beyond what we understand. boy down in South Georgia.
33
JS: I love the aspect that you’re from that part of the country avenue where black-ops, sanctioned and unsanctioned agencies,
because I was originally raised in South Florida and Florida. And either singularly or group-wise, can come forward voluntarily
so I’m familiar with the South. I grew up in the South. Also I did with what they want to expose, without recourse - versus
business in the South - as I mentioned to you earlier, my business disclosure in which you are forcing it in their face, and which I
was in North Carolina. think they...
BH: Right. KC: So there’s a lot of information in that regard; at least, that
you feel you’ve been told.
JS: I also worked in Georgia quite a bit. I think I was in every
small town. I think I worked in every small town and in every JS: Well, you know, I think 2012 will only be important, (and me
city that there is in the entire southeastern United States for like a staying away from that area) with... a change. I don’t see it as a
three-and-a-half, four-year period. destructive thing. I don’t see it as a cataclysmic change. I see it as
an era of positive change.
BH: Wow.
KC: But that’s totally valid! You know, we’re not here to look
JS: And I can relate to your background. for ‘negative’ information. We’re here to get just whatever input
you have got...
BH: Right.
JS: Sure.
Kerry Cassidy: Can I interrupt here, because, you know, this is
great, and we don’t have to put this on the net or anything... KC: ... and I just remember from our last discussion, that you had
some information given to you or shown to you ... I don’t know,
on a television screen, or whatever that was at that point.
JS: Doesn’t matter.
JS: Oh, in the years earlier. I think what you’re referring to - and
KC: ... we just turned on the camera. I can be corrected - was back... This was very common during the
abduction scenarios, particularly from the late ‘80s through the
BH: This is fine. ‘90s, which almost every abduction either included scenes - out
of order - of the future; scenes almost in holographic form - out
KC: This may be a once in a lifetime thing, but - what about of order - from the past; scenes from the present, so one couldn’t
2012? Because I think [to Sparks] you’ve been told some get a frame of reference as to be able to pin it down exactly when
information about that. Sounds like you [to Holden] haven’t. things would happen.
BH: No, I brought that up. And in fact in the interview we talked Even in the abduction scenario in general, what I find is the
about that - 2012 is a very important date. physical memory, even if it’s a positive experience, is taken
away. Because if you were enhanced with some knowledge, the
physical memory gets in the way - or the experience can get in
JS: I stay away from that. I stay away from publicly commenting the way - of the positive things you can do from the interaction.
on that.
But when it comes to these scenes, I’ve just seen many, many
KC: Okay. different scenes and I couldn’t specifically put them in order.
And I may have been referring to that at the time that you asked
JS: Not that I’m hiding anything. And I didn’t mean to ... go me, or it could have been another area.
ahead and finish your thought.
What I find interesting is, over time - which these things started
KC: If we turn off the cameras we can do that. almost 20 years ago - is from time to time, I see these things
come about. But I never know when it’s gonna do it!
JS: It doesn’t matter to me if they’re on or if they’re off on this
issue. So I can’t say, “Hey okay, so what I saw here, or what I saw
there... gee - it’s 2012! I just can’t say that.
KC: Uh huh.
KC: Okay, but to get back... you had the idea of amnesty for
black-ops?
JS: You know, when you have ‘a calling’, so to speak - mine is in
an area regarding the environment, as you’re familiar with my
work, putting together the ‘Your Earth Foundation’ to buy up BH: I wrote a letter to the president in 1996, requesting that
rainforest land - all of it so that the human species can evolve. specifically.
An amnesty bill - by the way, the issue with disclosure versus JS: Cool.
amnesty - I don’t want to say ‘versus’ because they work hand in
hand. But what we’re about here with the Your Earth BH: 1996.
Foundation is to put together an amnesty bill that creates an
34
JS: This is amazing, this is amazing. JS: So we’re talking 17 years from earlier...
KC: So you have a lot of parallels. BH: Exactly.
BH: We do, and, jus’... you and I have gotta sit down. [laughs] JS: Right.
JS: Yeah. BH: Exactly. And so this is why I say... when we start putting
things together and we start adding things up, and the times that
BH: We’ve got to be together. we’re going through - when we look back to where we started in
the early ‘60s and watching my experiences, watching what has
happened, and look at how we have evolved in the scientific and
JS: You just happen to live in Vegas as I do. technological advances that have occurred in less than 50 years...
BH: Yeah. This is great. We’ve got to. Because, uh... I have JS: Right. Right.
another meeting I have to go to, at six. But this is great. Thank
y’all so much for arranging this and bringing this together.
BH: ... has been monumental, okay? But we go back to the period
of the Phoenicians, umpteen thousand years ago, the surgical
KC: It seemed like a natural synchronicity. tools and instruments that they had - some are still being utilized
today in heart and brain surgery.
JS: Yeah. And you know what I’ve kept strong about, if we take
off of this ... and it’s been very difficult, and almost sacrificial in JS: Fascinating.
a sense. Since ’88, up to this point, I’ve stayed away from all the
movies. And you know, as I mentioned to you, Bill and Kerry,
and I’ve also mentioned to you, [indicating Holden] that I stay BH: It’s amazing. Amazing.
away from reading in any depth or any detail other peoples’
work, movies on the subject. And I shy away from it as much as JS: Yeah. So, along with that on the same page, is, in a little bit
possible throughout these last 20 years, so as not to cloud my more detail, in one respect - which is - again, I was advised, I
interactions with others, because they’re so close - I don’t want to don’t claim to embrace, but I have a healthy suspicion about it
cloud ‘em together. until it plays itself out - that when you’re talking 60,000 or
70,000 years ago, and these guys, as in grays, talk million and
So I’ve kept myself as best as I could, separate from that. And in millions...
a lot of cases, it is a sacrifice. I haven’t even seen Independence
Day. So, when was that - ten years ago? [laughs] Not to mention BH: Exactly.
a lot of things that have come up. And what I find is, when
opportunities like this come about, to see how things parallel, you JS: ... and it’s something we’ve done. But the difference today is,
know, interweaving my experiences with others... where we have an edge, I believe, Bill, and also advised as
having an edge, (and it goes back to this amnesty thing) and I
BH: Right. I just loved your reaction to some of the things that I know you need to go, so I’ll kind of close it on this with you - is
said. And it is, it’s so... to come right off that, when you don’t the fact that there’s more technical knowledge that can change
know each other and then you basically see how parallel these the face of the Earth as we know it, in human hands today, than
situations are and the knowledge that we’ve gained from our own there ever has been in the past.
personal experiences. Now I’m the opposite of that. In other
words... BH: Absolutely.
JS: That’s your calling. Go ahead, I’m listening. JS: We could never really rely on the ETs, so to speak, because if
we could have... The track record shows it didn’t happen; we
BH: I want to go find out everything I can about it from others, as haven’t evolved. And in this case we have a big edge because it
to what their experiences are. But 2012 has some unique features IS in human hands, and it’s more or less up to us to get our act
about it as far as the importance of that. And one is the end of the together - look inward, see us for what we really are, and we have
Aztec calendar, as is stated. In certain things that I’ve done from a good chance at evolving this time versus self-destructing.
the military side and being inside the presidential arm and
everything, hearing conversations - 2012 has been brought up a And that avenue of amnesty, where they can volunteer what they
number of times. want - and not to go too far, but to briefly say - the issue or the
problem is, is you’ve got a growing majority in those areas that
JS: Even from the earlier periods in your experience? want to see this out. But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending
on how you look at it ... in their case unfortunately, which makes
BH: The earlier periods, and in the conversation in ‘95 at the sense), a lot of it is tied in with not just national security, but
conference. Now that was put on, by the way, by the global security.
Rockefellers, by the Rockefeller Foundation. That whole thing
was paid for, okay? BH: Exactly.
35
JS: And they do not want to be forced to bring out the whole BH: Yeah, okay.
enchilada, because they’re not going to do it. But if they can
come out in a clemency sort of way with just what’s important - JS: Count on it.
that can change things, that would make the whole difference in
the world.
BH: We’ll get together. I look forward to it.
BH: I agree, and the other side of it is... it’s just like in the pre-
briefing when Reagan was being briefed by the CIA as to what JS: As a wise man once told me, “Convenience stimulates use.”
was going on... in that briefing he was advised that there were [laughs] So we happen to live in the same town. [Kerry laughing
thirty-nine known species of ETs - thirty-nine! off screen]
Not just the graylings. BH: We have to. Bill and Kerry, thank you so much. I just so
appreciate this, and don’t be strangers when you come into town.
JS: Right. Right.
KC: No, absolutely! Okay, next time we’re going to take you up
on that, all right?
BH: Thirty-nine others, okay? And that’s where we get into the
reptilians, the Andromedans, ... you name it.
BH: Please do.
JS: Right. It’s probably as wide a variety of life out there as there
is on this planet. KC: We’ll get back to you again. We’ll all go out for dinner or
something.
BH: Exactly. So that’s why I said... I have so enjoyed this.
JS: This is wonderful, spontaneous like this, and the way it ended
up. The energy’s great.
JS: So have I.
KC: It’s great. You know, I mean, it’s a lot of fun. It’s been great
BH: And I look forward to us getting together. You’ve got my to see you.
card?
BH: No problem. Always good to see y’all.
JS: Yeah.
36
Project Camelot:
John Lear Tells All -Transcript
Las Vegas, Nevada, April 2008
---
John Lear: Absolutely would be probably what they’re going to

do.
...They’re going to put a hologram and say, oh, we’re being

attacked, you know, by aliens, ah, we’ve made a deal with the
ambassador. And he says that they feel that Earth is a threat and
that - but if you all take all, any, weapons you have and turn them
in, that that they’ll give us a second chance...
J: I would take them and freeze them in a position twenty miles

out at 7,000 feet, at 560 mph, put them in the seat, say, you know,
and then give them two minutes of looking at the horizons, show
them where the World Trade Center is, and ah say, I’m about to
release you and when I do, ah, you’ll have a minute and fifty
seconds to hit dead center. It’s, it’s impossible. At the height of
my career, as proficient as I was in every kind of airplane, there’s
...now some of you may be asking why so many airlines no way I could have done that, I mean, it’s just too complex.
collapsed that I worked for and why I got fired so many times.
My excuse is simple. I am not the brightest crayon in the box, I J: It’s the same thing with 2012. It’s just going to be a year like
am extremely lazy, I have a smart mouth and a real poor every other year. We’re going to have, to continue to have these
fucking attitude. wars. We will probably have a nuclear war, you know, but things
John Lear are just, you know, going to go along fine.
Yes, he's incorrigible and fun loving, with a great sense of humor Kerry Cassidy: And I even have a hunch that you might have
that has served him well over these many years. Our 2006 been part of MJ-12, at one point...
interview with John Lear (see below) remains one of our
favorites.
J: It was December 6th, of 1988. Bob comes, sits down, and
[pauses] he says: “I saw a disk today,” and I’m writing out
When we met again with him recently, with considerably more
checks there, you know, and I’m not paying attention and I say
time at our disposal than we had two years ago, John piled his
“WHAT?” He says “I saw a disk today”, and I, “A disk, theirs or
studio table high with books, diagrams and research papers and
ours?” And he says, “theirs”. I said, “You went to Groom Lake?”
sat down to tell us "everything he knew".
And he said “Yeah.” And I said, “What are you doing HERE?” I
said. “Obviously they’re going to follow you. Why don’t you
With special emphasis on the Bob Lazar saga - as only John can just, you know, work there for a while and then come and tell us
tell it - we cover the inconsistencies in the 911 theories and why what happened? And he says, “Because I’ve seen you take so
as a world renowned pilot he is uniquely qualified to judge just much crap, over the past six months about this. I’m telling you its
what kind of planes, if any, hit the World Trade Center (answer, real, I saw it, I touched it.”
none: John explains why they were holograms); why the moon's
gravity may be as much as 64% that of the Earth's, and could
J: I’m looking at him, saying, “What, what, what?” He said,
retain a very thin atmosphere; how Ben Rich, the former Director
“John, you will never know what it’s like to see your first alien.”
of the Lockheed Skunk Works, was a Mossad agent; the location
I said, “You saw one, you saw one?” “Yup”. I said, “It couldn’t
of the "new Area 51", called Sandia, deep within the Nevada
have been a doll? It couldn’t a been...” “No! It was one”.
desert; what really happened at Above Top Secret, an internet
forum where he was attacked and which he has subsequently
left... and much more. And, you know, these days you ask him that question he says,
“Well, I don’t know, coulda been a doll. They were doing all this
weird stuff.” But that night, that’s exactly what he said.
There's nothing here about 2012 or 'Planet X' - both of which
John dismisses - but we think you will be entertained and
fascinated by the reported detailed experiences and opinions of J: You know the deal, the way security like that works, is, when
someone who deserves to be respected and admired for his they give you a clearance and when you’re deep inside like that,
courage, character, and maverick commitment to revealing what they tell you: “Look, John, we’ve given you this clearance and, of
he believes is the truth. course, we expect you to keep it secret. But we know every once
37
in a while, you may accidentally mention something at a party. shuttles do and then, pretty soon, you know, I’m gone. And the
You may have had too much to drink - and you think it would be mechanics of exactly why I’m gone is Jeff Ritzmann and David
interesting to talk about this - and we just want you to know that, Biedne, were two of the main Meier debunkers. Now, the Meier
you know, we don’t really care. We won’t hurt you. But, we will story is true. There’s no doubt about it.
kill your wife, your children, your mom, your dad, your parakeet,
your dog...” K: Oh yeah, absolutely.
J: He took pictures, he went on rides. I don’t care whether you

say that, you know, “There were pictures of dinosaurs,” or “The
Start of interview lady came out of Sears Magazine.” That’s all contamination. The
fact is, it was true. And so, I really don’t have time to support the
Meier thing, other than, in the thread, I would come up every
Kerry Cassidy: Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy and this is Project Camelot
once in a while and say, “Hey look, you know, I’m busy with
and we're very happy to be returning to see John Lear, and do a
other things. If I had time, you know, I’d tell you exactly how the
retake and a new interview, to get...he’s going to tell all,
Meier thing happened and why I believe it, but all I want to tell
basically. Is that right, John?
you is: the Meier case is true and John Lear believes it’s true, and
that’s the bottom line there”.
John Lear: Yeah.
And I’m telling you, I would get hit SO hard on ATS... pages and
K: You’re going to absolutely charm us and, and dazzle us with pages of people knocking me, particularly Jeff Ritzmann and
new information. David Biedne. So one day, I got a list of everything, all the
insults they made of me, and there were sixteen of them. And I
J: I’m going to tell what I know up to this point. put them, you know, at the end; I said, “You know it’s funny that
any other thread, people would be taken to task for insulting
another person. But apparently, on the Billy Meier thread it’s
K: Okay.
okay to insult John Lear.” And I put these sixteen things.
J: And I’m not saying it’s absolutely ironclad - what’s really

Well that was on a Sunday evening. Monday morning I wake up,
going on - but it’s what I think is going on.
go to log on, and here’s Skeptic Overlord... what’s his name,
Bill...
K: Great.
Bill Ryan: Bill Irvine?
J: But I’d first like to say...I can’t believe it’s been two years
since we did this - it seems like only about six months. But first
J: Bill Irvine.
of all, let’s talk about what happened at ATS. What do you know
about it?
B: Mark Allen is the other one.
K: Okay, I know you, you’ve been banned. That’s the extent of it,
and we don’t actually know why. What we know about it is that, J: Says, you know, we’ve post-banned you here until you can
or what we think we know is that it’s a CIA front and managed prove that what you said that Ritzmann and Biedne posted, was
by the CIA, so if you’ve been banned, it might be that you’re true. We’ve had our best moderators and they can’t find a single
getting too hot. quote that was true. So all we need is your help. And I’m
thinking, “Holy smokes, I just, you know, got all that, copied all
that yesterday”. So, I started to worry, because it never even
J: That’s what I think, and when I first joined ATS, maybe three
occurred to me to go back and check to see if it was still there.
years ago, I thought, you know what, this is just a collection point
for what people think is going on. So that THEY KNOW what the
general public thinks is going on and they have a bunch of K: Wow.
debunkers there that are, you know, paid to go in there and
somebody talks about something and they say “oh, no, no, here’s J: I just assumed, if Bill Irvine said it wasn’t there, and his
what really going on.” You know... moderators said it wasn’t there, then it wasn’t there. And so, what
I thought was one of the moderators was in on it and it’s gone.
K: Right... And the only hope I have of recovering it, is going into the
archives.
J: ...so they generally just influence public thought. But then, I
started to throw some, you know, interesting stuff in there and So that was like about eight in the morning, and the whole day
they didn’t say anything, so I thought, well maybe it’s ok. long, here’s Bill Irvine coming back, every two hours, “John, you
know, we can’t find any of this. We need your help.” You know,
with a few little minor digs in it.
K: [Chuckles]
So I’m waiting for Ron Schmidt to get off work at six, so he can
J: So, starting about four months ago, I started throwing some
show me how to go into the archives. So, finally, just before I
really secret stuff in there, which I’ll tell you later, and it has to
went over to Ron Schmidt’s that Monday about five o’clock I
do with Navy submarines. It has to do with what the space
38
said, “You know, I’m just going to take a look and be SURE that rapidly came to a halt. So now we’ve talked to several people at
it’s not there” and I found every single quote still there. So I ATS and they said “nobody gets to put anymore good stuff on,
laboriously took the time to copy every one, and paste it on this you know, it’s got to be backed up a hundred percent or they’re
one piece of paper exactly where it was, send it to Bill Irvine, and banned and their post is deleted”.
he sends me back an e-mail says: “Jeff admitted it, it’s a done
deal.” J: I think the crowning blow is when they rolled in Jim Oberg.
And Jim Oberg has been NASA’s front man, you know, for thirty
K: So, in other words, the moderators were kind of like in years. He knows everything about everything and, when we got
collusion with this guy, Jeff.... into a debate on the neutral point - which I’ll discuss later - which
absolutely proves that there’s 64% gravity on the moon. I got Jim
J: No, no... it turns out that none of them were colluding. Oberg and I’ll read you the exact thing he came back with. You
know, he was stuck. There was nothing more for him to say. He
was done for and that’s when things started to go downhill, and
K: They didn’t know? I’ll read you the exact thing Jim Oberg said.
J: It turns out that everything was still there. But Irvine said all K: So John, what’s going to be your approach at this point that
his guys couldn’t find those quotes. you’re banned? Because, in a way, that was the kind of a place
where you could connect with the public. Are you going to join
K: But, but that’s what I’m saying. If they couldn’t find the another...
quotes, then they suddenly found them, then in a certain sense it
sounds like they’re working with Jeff. J: I post on four little forums, and anybody that calls and asks, I
give them these forums. And it’s no big deal, there’s like 300 on
J: That could be. Anyway, Bill said, “If we all agree to keep this one and 80 on another. And my bag is not reaching a lot of
between us.” I said, “No, I don’t agree to keep that between us. I people; it’s reaching the very few that are interested in what’s
want everyone to know EXACTLY what happened here. You going on. And that’s not a threat to the government, really. I
know, you say this is Above Top Secret and we’re trying to get don’t think.
all this information. Why should this little feud, in which you’ve
caused me an entire day of grief, and really...” K: [Laughs] Okay, well, there are plenty people that visit forums
that don’t log on. So, so it’s good news to know that you’re
I told Bill, I said, “I’ve been posting here for two years. I spend actually still out there and still posting.
eight to sixteen hours answering questions on ATS. And you
accuse me of falsifying information? I mean that’s INSANE”. So J: Yeah, the stuff that we’re going to talk about today is the stuff
I wouldn’t agree not to shut up and they, they didn’t let me on that’s current on these forums. One is Open Minds; and the other
so.... is American Conspiracy; the other is Fantastic Forum; and I think
there’s one other. And then I have a website with Ron Schmidt
K: So it sounds like they’re playing games. that’s called thelivingmoon.com and I try and keep all the stuff
that we find out on there.
J: Yes. So they had a lot of people ask about John Lear, and
finally on Sunday, the following Sunday, they let me on just long K: Okay.
enough I could get in my two cents worth and then I was banned
forever. B: Thelivingmoon.com is an excellent website. I want to say this
for the record. There are not that many websites that we at
It was obvious that ATS has been a clearing house. They wanted Project Camelot would be willing to recommend, but that’s a
the information that the public got, to see if they could influence good one.
that. They weren’t interested in having good stuff come out
there... J: Okay, let me...
K: Right. B: A very, very good one.
J: ...that the public could say. And I’m telling ya, I was telling J: ...tell you about the origin of thelivingmoon.com was. When I
some good stuff and I was getting away with it! And it was, posted the original HUGE megabyte pictures of the moon on
really... ATS; in other words, I sent them by DVD to... what’s his name
there?
K: Well, let’s get that good stuff on here today.
B: Bill? Mark?
J: ...it was really surprising.
J: No, the other one, Mark, and he posted them. For the first week
K: And we’ll get around that. people were saying, “Well I don’t see anything, you know, John,
and I don’t see what you see there, you know, and everything.”
J: They were letting me get away with this stuff. And ah, And then this guy called Zorgon started to see the stuff. And so I
because, you know, I know what’s going on. And so then it would lead him to it and I didn’t lead him anywhere, you know. I
39
didn’t say, “Well here it is” - because you can’t do that. You got We got this on record from a guy on the inside, okay? Now, of
to let them find it. And Zorgon started coming up with the stuff. course, they’ll deny it. But if you’ve got someone whose user
And THEN, he started finding more than I did and I said, you name is “Skeptic Overlord”, what does that tell us?
know, we got to meet and I’m thinking “Holy shit, this guy lives
in New Jersey, you know, and I’m going to have to get back J: Yeah.
there”. It turns out, you know, he lives a couple miles down the
street!
B: You know, I mean, the truth is in plain sight. ATS is a
skeptical site. ATS is a debunker’s site and so what do you
K: Oh my God, that’s great... debunkers do? It’s this phrase, which you know: you keep your
friends close and your enemies closer.
J: [Laughing.] So he comes up here, you know, we start trading
information. And he already had a website, you know, having to J: Yeah.
do with medieval stuff, so we just made
www.thelivingmoon.com a part of that. And the information just
started to come in from all kinds of sources. B: So you’re an enemy of anyone who wants the truth really out.
So they bring you in really close with the intention of controlling
public opinion about you.
K: Right, yeah.
J: Right.
J: Sources, I had no idea how they got the stuff.
B: It nearly worked, but not quite.
B: Yeah, yeah.
J: [Laughs]
J: But a lot of stuff on the Russian black ships, and it just keeps
pouring in...
B: Because they made the mistake of calling John Lear a liar.
And John Lear may be all kinds of things but John Lear’s not a
B: It’s a good site. It’s a good site. liar, and everybody knows that, who knows anything about John
Lear.
J: 10% of the stuff is posted on there just because we don’t have
the time, you know, we’d like to have a secretary, but both of us J: But what are the chances of, you know, me posting those
are broke you know, so we don’t have, you know, we can’t put it pictures on ATS, you know, and the ONE GUY who starts
ALL on there. So we put the most interesting stuff on there, and seeing the good stuff, lives, you know, 3 or 4 miles down the
Ron works down at the convention center. He’s the guy that sets road. I mean it’s really, really great.
things up and takes things down. But he comes....
K: It’s freaky.
K: Well, that’s fabulous!
J: But that’s how synchronicity works.
J: ...he comes home and every once in awhile we get together,
you know, like once a week, and talk about what we’re going to
focus on but that’s, that’s it. K: Absolutely.
B: Let me share this e-mail with you, John. This is from J: And, and every DAY, I see an example of synchronicity.
somebody called Gary Dix, who used to work very closely with
Simon, Mark and Bill. In the early days of ATS and, after a major K: Well, that means you’re really plugged in to what’s going on
disagreement, he quit. He’s based in New Zealand. And he sent here, and that you’re getting some unseen help, basically. I mean
me a long e-mail. synchronicity is just being in synch with the universe in a major
way...
J: And the date?
J: Right.
B: A couple of years ago.
K: ...and everything is going in that direction – basically, the
J: Yeah. direction of disclosure and truth. So, on that note, let’s kind of
dive in here. We know you’ve got a lot of stuff to cover today, so
where would you like to go first?
B: And I’ll just read one of the pertinent paragraphs: “As they
become more negative over a topic, they begin to drive the
threads using sockpuppets, fake member names, as they don’t J: First we’re going to cover the Nibiru scam, Planet X.
want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods
and admin. This is the STYLE of mods and admin in the future - K: Okay.
using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.”
J: It is not there. It is not going to cause a problem in 2012. It’s a
scam. I see it working from every different direction. It’s just a
40
PLOT to keep us, you know, in a state of anxiety. Everything’s Now, we know what the neutral point is because: 1) Wernher von
going to go along just as normal. The world isn’t going to Braun told us; 2) the crew of Apollo 17 told us; and 3) one of the
disintegrate. There’s going to be no planet that comes and shakes other Apollo missions told us. And it’s about 38,000 or 39,000
everything up. Everything’s going to go along just fine. miles and, if you work out the law of inverse-square, it comes out
to be that the moon is 64% gravity of the Earth. That’s all there is
K: Ok, are you saying this in general about 2012? to it. And you don’t have to assume mass.
J: Yes. And as far as Planet X and Nibiru, that’s based on 65 years of

listening to bullshit, you know, about what’s coming on and what
disaster’s coming next. It’s just you know, I know that there’s
K: Or are you saying this... nothing going to be happening.
J: Specifically about Planet X.... K: Okay, let me ask you because we have several witnesses that
are giving us evidence...
K: Planet X...
J: I know you do, I know you do and that’s why...
J: ...or Nibiru, or whatever you want to call it, AND 2012. 2012
is like... K: ...also some secret evidence in this regard now, were certainly
in question about this. We’ve not reached a conclusion ourselves.
K: It’s just a year. However, first of all, there’s the South Pole Telescope. There’s
also the interest of the Vatican and the Jesuit footage that came
J: Is what? out, you know, with [Cristoforo] Barbato. Maybe you’ve seen the
footage, maybe you haven’t. Maybe you can give us some
background on why you think that footage is not accurate, or not
K: Is it just a year, in your opinion? real. And then there’s also the heating of the planets. How do you
account for the heating of the planets and the activity on the sun,
J: Yeah, it’s just like, what did we call this... Y2K? You know, which is going to reach a peak in 2012 as being meaningless?
we all got to get generators and food and everything, and
everything was going to collapse. The same thing with 2012. It’s J: Are you talking about global warming?
just going to be a year like every other year. We’re going to have,
to continue to have these wars. We will probably have a nuclear
war, you know, but things are just, you know, going to go along K: But it’s not global, and David Wilcock and Richard Hoagland
fine. There’s going to be no absolutely... have gone through planet by planet, and shown you how there’s
increased activity all the way down, and there’s actually heating
up.
K: Where do you get your information? Are you just coming to
this conclusion in your own head by putting two and two
together, or do you have an inside source that’s telling you stuff? B: There’s information in the public domain that every planet in
the solar system is heating up. It seems to be connected with solar
cycle 24. And then some people say that there’s something else
J: No inside scoop. I have never had an inside scoop. Most all of that’s driving this.
my information, you know, I’ve come out with it myself and its
more fun like that. Because people say “Where do you... who told
you that gravity on the moon was 64% and there’s an J: I wouldn’t even pay any attention to it.
atmosphere”? Well, there’s a lot of books out there but, basically,
I’m the guy that came out and said “Yup, there’s gravity on the K: [Laughs]
moon and there’s an atmosphere on the moon”. As far as...
J: Everybody gets to believe what they want. In 2012 you could
K: Well, why, why should we believe that you would know this? look back and say John Lear, on April 2nd 2008 said it was all
I mean is it because you were a pilot, because you’re trained in a bullshit, and if it wasn’t, you know, I was wrong, but I think it’s a
certain way? Where is your trail coming from? total scam.
J: Well, as far as the gravity on the moon, we’re going to talk K: I’m sure you’ve rubbed shoulders with the Intel community.
about Bullialdus-Newton law of inverse-square. And we’re going You know that your office is bugged - you’ve demonstrated that
to talk about how usually NASA convinces you, using Newton’s to us. There’s a reason why they bug you. I mean, first of all, you
gravitational law, which assumes the mass of the earth and the know, you’re a pilot from way back, you’re incredibly respected,
moon - that’s not what you want to use. You want to use Newton- you have a background military, slightly, you know. And I even
Bullialdus or Bullialdus-Newton law of inverse-square, because have a hunch you might have been part of MJ-12 at one point.
you don’t have to CARE what the mass is. All you need to know
is what the distance is, and where the neutral point is. If we know J: [Laughs]
where the neutral point is and the size of the planets, we can
figure out what the gravity is.
K: [Laughs] Okay, so you’ve known all the insiders. You know...
tell me why it is that you’re saying you have no inside sources
suddenly. I mean, you know, Bob Lazar...
41
J: Let me correct that. Let me correct that. I had three inside J: Right. I’d have to say that was my first impression.
sources. One was Jimmy Doolittle - and he’s the one that told my
Mom MJ-12 existed. That story is important because, when I was K: So now tell me something. You must know the history to
first getting into all this in 1987, and Shandera and Moore came some degree. I mean you’ve been around a long time, you’ve
out with the supposed Eisenhower briefing, and it talked about seen them in operation. You know, you know, you must have
Majestic 12. I needed to know, is this true? And the only person MET some of the insiders and I have to say that I think they
that I knew that would have known beyond a shadow of a doubt, would have recruited you. Am I wrong?
was Jimmy Doolittle.
J: No, I...
K: Okay, who’s Jimmy Doolittle?
K: You never got an offer?
J: General Jimmy Doolittle, that’s him behind you taking off to
bomb Tokyo. Taking off from the Hornet, incidentally, the same
aircraft carrier that picked up Apollo. And that letter that you see J: No. I just, you know, I was a pilot. I didn’t know ANYTHING,
is when I had my accidental airplane crash in Geneva, you know, until 1984 when I, somebody...
Switzerland, in 1961 and nearly killed myself. He was the only
one to take the time to write me a letter and say, “John, we all K: But you know a lot now.
make mistakes, I’ve made many, plenty of them, but it’s
important that we profit, it’s only important that we profit by our J: Yeah.
mistakes”. And he took the time to write that whole letter so, I
have it framed with him taking off on the Hornet to bomb Tokyo.
K: Look at this office, it’s incredible.
General Jimmy Doolittle was an incredible General - very
respected, and he was involved with MJ-12 up to his ears. He was J: Yeah. You know, up till 1984, my sole interest was SR-71, F-
NOT a part of MJ-12, but he was around our house in Santa 19, Stealth Fighter...
Monica, 222 14th Street. He lived down on Third Street with his
wife, Josephine, and they were in our house JUST LIKE K: Okay.
Vandenberg, just like Twining - all those MJ-12 guys were
around our house. But, you know, I didn’t know that at that time
J: ...stuff like that. As a matter of fact, you can go on the internet:
and my father never said much about UFOs other than that he
John Andrews, who was Vice President of Testors, and
believed them.
eventually made the ‘Sport Model’.
And I never found out any other stuff until like I got into this
K: Right.
stuff in 1985, ‘86 and Doolittle’s name kept coming up, time
after time after time. Now, I knew him and I have... there’s
autographed pictures all around this den of Jimmy that I’d asked J: You know he and I had letters going back and forth. He’d say,
for. And I saw him at various... like SETP, which is Society of “Hey, you ought to look into this flying saucer deal.” And I’d
Experimental Test Pilots, and to say hello and everything, but I say, “No, its bullshit, you know I don’t need to waste my time”.
didn’t really know him that well. That letter’s on the Internet. You know my interest didn’t start till
in 1985, I think. We had a... I used to run the reunion for all the
Southeast Asia pilots that, you know, that worked for CIA and
But I knew that my Mom knew him and she was as close to
I’d run the reunion here in Las Vegas, called “China Post 1”.
Jimmy Doolittle as anybody in her life, Jimmy and Jo. Now, his
wife passed away in the 1980s sometime and he was retired, lived
in Carmel, California, and I KNEW that. And I also knew that And we’d have it every two years and ONE of these years, and I
my Mom talked to him every once in a while. think it was 1985, a friend of mine, whose name was Greg
Wilson, he was a Raven. The Raven were the Air Force guys
they’d take out of the Air Force, sheep dip them, to give them
So I knew that the only way I would have of determining whether
civilian ID. They’d come into Laos and they’d fly, you know, the
Majestic 12 was true was to get her to ask him. And it took about
01s and they were the Ravens and they’d go out on the PDJ and
six months to get it together, because she’s always hesitant, you
all around and do all kinds of amazing things. Anyway, he
know, to do stuff like that. But I finally got her to do it.
attended the reunion. His name is Greg Wilson and he got talking
to him, “Hey, where-all ya been”? And he said, “Well, you know,
And she called up and she said, “Jimmy, how’re you doing and here and there, still flying A-10s. I spent a tour at Bentwaters”. I
dadadada, and by the way, John’s interested in this stuff, and I said, “Bentwaters”?
just want to know, was Majestic 12 real”? And he said “Yes,
Moya, but I can’t say anything about it”. That for me was, you
K: [Chuckles]
know, the beginning of everything - because, if Majestic 12 is
real, it’s a possibility the briefing papers are real and, if they were
real, then everything else was real. J: “That was the place, supposedly, in 1980, that the flying saucer
landed”. He says, “No John, not supposedly - it did”. He said, “I
didn’t get to see it because I was confined to quarters, but I know
K: Right, because why would you put together something like
the guys who did”. I said, “What”? I said, “You’re telling me this
MJ-12 under Truman, to investigate or manage the UFO story
stuff is real”? He said, “Oh, yeah”.
unless there was, you know, if there was no UFO story, right?
There’s got to be a UFO if you’re going to put together a group.
42
So here’s a guy that I flew with in Southeast Asia, hadn’t seen for He said, “John, this thing was so big”, he said, “that when I
years, I give him this outrageous question about Bentwaters. He finished it”, he said, “I have a private license. I rented an airplane
says, “Yeah, yeah, I was confined. I didn’t see it, but I know the just to go up and fly around to see how mammoth this thing was”.
guys who did”. So that’s what piqued my interest and that’s And I said, “Well, can you give me an idea”? He says, “Acres”. I
1985, you know? So, you know... said “Wow”! I said, “How’d they get it to the moon”? And, he
said “I don’t know”. [laughs]
K: So, you’ve got more. You’ve got insiders coming to you,
you’ve got insiders that are friends. And that’s how projects like that work. He doesn’t have a need to
know how they got it to the moon, his job was to build it, you
J: I wouldn’t say he was an insider; an insider like is Bob Lazar... know, and they’re not going to TELL him any of that. That’s how
compartmentalization works. You know, that’s one...
K: Right.
B: We’ve been told by somebody, he told us that Project Lunex
and Horizon were never canceled and just went black.
J: ...and the only other insider, the real insider, I mean the guy,
and it’s been like, you know, if you guys were here two years
ago, that’s probably been like five or six years ago. I can’t J: Absolutely, and Project Horizon is on our website, right?
remember when I met. Oh, I know when it was, yeah, it’s been a
long time ago. It’s been almost twenty years, Used to live up in B: Yes.
Idaho. He was retired. He told friends of mine a lot more than he
told me, but, just before he died, he came down to Vegas and J: Yeah. The only thing we had. There’s, we got four of the
more or less said, what do you want to know? And I didn’t even phases of Project Horizon, except one. I think its number two that
know what to ask! we need. So I’ll show you that, and show you what we’re still
looking for.
K: And his name is?
K: Can you just tell me one thing? Have YOU been threatened?
J: Ah...
J: Never, never the slightest bit.
K: Are you at liberty to tell us?
K: Okay, alright. Well, so, either you’ve never crossed the line,
J: No. Because, you know, the deal. The way security like that you’ve never revealed anything that you weren’t supposed to, or
works is, when they give you a clearance and when you’re deep you don’t know enough. Is that right?
inside like that, they tell you “Look, John, we’ve given you this
clearance and, of course, we expect you to keep it secret. But we B: Or you’re doing someone a favor.
know every once in a while, you may accidentally mention
something at a party; you may have had too much to drink; and
you think it would be interesting to talk about this, and we just J: OR, somebody’s protecting me.
want you to know that we don’t really care. We won’t hurt you.
But we will kill your wife, your children, your mom, your dad, K: Okay, so the last...
your parakeet, your dog, you know, everybody else, but you’ll be
okay”. J: But you are exactly right, either I’m talking through my hat
and I don’t have the REAL information...
So that’s why people don’t talk. And then people say, “He’s on
his deathbed, why wouldn’t he talk”? That’s why. It’s because K: Or...
they make it clear - not him that’s going to get hurt, it’s every
person in his family and then starting with his best friend.
J: ...or somebody’s protecting me.
Towards the end of his life, I saw him three times. I drove to
Idaho to see him twice and once back here and, when I was in K: Do you know who?
Idaho, he didn’t tell me all that much, but he did tell me one
interesting thing that NEVER made sense - until THIS year when J: Oh, I didn’t say which one was true.
I find out. The information I’m getting is just growing
exponentially. Every time I get someplace, you know, and then
K: I understand.
I’m led to someplace else and it just... so much information
coming in.
J: I mean, you know, I think a lot of this stuff is true, but how
would I know? I’ve never been to the moon. I’d like to go.
Anyway, what he told me was that he worked on a project, a
mining machine for the moon, and this thing was being built in
the South somewhere. He didn’t tell me where, but I was K: Uh huh.
imagining Arkansas or Alabama, someplace like that.
J: If I go and somebody can arrange a ride... like Bob Lazar, he
says he’s going to have his space suit on while we’re standing in
43
the air lock there. And when it comes up like that he says, you J: They were the predecessor to NASA.
know, “at least I’m going to have some air and I’ll watch you
suffocate”. And I said no, no, I’ll be able to breathe normally. K: Okay.
Now, when people go to the moon, it takes them two weeks of
decompression before they can actually go out and spend some
time there. J: But when he retired, he somehow got some photos, some really
good negatives of Voyager, which went by Saturn. And he set up
a little lab in his house, and he started looking these and he ended
The fact is you can go right there and breathe but, you know, up writing Ringmakers of Saturn. And what he shows you here
you’ll get altitude sickness. Just like if you go to climb Everest, is what he found in the rings of Saturn: three vehicles - space
you can go right up there, you’ll probably live but, you know, ships - the biggest of which is 31,196 miles long and 2,422 miles
you’ll hurt pretty bad. That’s why they go to the different camps in diameter.
as they go up, is to get acclimatized and the same thing to the
moon. It takes about two weeks.
We’re talking about a fairly large spaceship there. Now Norm
Bergrun, when he wrote this book at the beginning - it’s very
K: Okay. So tell us how the moon got where it is, because, you good - he says “Now look, I’m going to be talking about some
know that the moon is a satellite, that’s actually a fake... stuff that is very interesting, but you can’t skip a page, you can’t
skip a word that you don’t know; you have to go from the
J: Right. It was. It’s a spaceship that was towed into orbit. I beginning to end or you won’t understand what I’m saying.” And
would say thirty to forty thousand years ago. Now the reason I I did go from beginning to end. Now since...
say thirty to forty thousand years ago, is because it’s still within
the history of man. K: Okay, but when was this written?
[Immanuel] Velikovsky talks about the different proselynes and J: Ah, this would be 1986.
the different civilizations, that talked about the time when there
was NO moon and then, when there were two moons and now we
have one moon. This guy here, Norm Bergrun wrote the The K: Ok, so it’s not that old.
Ringmakers of Saturn. It’s an EXCELLENT book. Norm
Bergrun is VERY qualified; was for forty years a scientific part J: No and I go see Norm...
of both NACA and also Lockheed; retired from Lockheed, I
think, about fifteen years ago. No more than that... K: And it’s talking about a huge spaceship. Who built the
spaceship?
K: What’s NACA?
J: Who builds them?
J: Ah, National Aeronautics, the predecessor to NASA.
K: Yeah.
K: Oh, really.
J: We don’t know who builds them. But anyway...
J: National Advisory Commission for Aeronautics.
K: Us?
K: I see, okay.
J: No, no. We couldn’t build anything like that. We have some
amazing stuff, but, we couldn’t do that.
K: Okay.
J: No, this is somebody else. But what the interesting part in the
book and the reason why we’re getting here is because, at the end
of this book, he starts talking about the moon and how the moon
was towed into orbit. Because the people that towed, that, that
operate that stuff and Saturn and also Iapetus, towed the moon
into orbit - and he goes into here, explains exactly why he
believes the moon WAS towed into orbit, and how it was and
how they grabbed on to the Mare Orienel.
K: Who are you saying towed the moon into...
J: We don’t know. Whoever.
K: ...into place. So he doesn’t conjecture on who...
44
J: No. J: This is...
K: ...you know, on what alien race, for example. K: Why are they letting him talk?
J: No. J: Why?
K: I mean obviously, it’s an alien race. Henry Deacon, our secret K: Why are they letting him do this? I mean, in other words.
source, has also substantiated that. The moon was towed into
orbit... but have you got an idea what alien race was responsible J: What’s he saying? There’s a space ship that’s, that’s 31 miles
for that? long in the rings of Saturn?
J: No, absolutely not. K: So plausible deniability is....
K: None? J: Sure, who’s going to believe that?
J: What’s interesting here, another interesting thing, I see Norm K: Okay, okay, alright. So that’s...
every year because when I go do the UFO Expo West, which is
the only one I do. He lives in Los Altos Hills. And he’s writing
about Iapetus, and Iapetus is probably a spaceship too. J: So anyway, two years ago, at the UFO Expo West, I mean, that
was SO interesting because number one, one of my lectures of
Apollo 1, and the four people that were in it and there was
K: Okay. Grissom, White and Chaffey and then there was a fourth guy -
and he was part of the secret astronaut corps.
K: So we’ve got to get in touch with this guy.
And the REASON that had to keep it secret is because if they, if
J: You better, because he’s on his way out. I saw him last the public were allowed to know there was a fourth guy in there,
September, he was not well, he was finishing up the book on then they would not, want to know who he was. And there was
Iapetus. But he wasn’t working on it every day... no possible way that NASA could ever reveal that there was
another guy in there, ‘cause they would have to reveal the secret
K: Okay, was he a scientist? space program. And the secret space program started in 1959 and
they’re the ones who went to the moon in 1962. They went to
Mars in 1966. All, everything we know is a cover for the secret
J: Yes. space program.
K: Okay, but did he, who did he work for? I mean, in other K: Oh, yeah.
words, he’s government...
J: Anyway, when, when I give a lecture, if I have two hours, I
J: Give me a second here. always give an hour, and then let the public talk to me for an
hour, because I’m going to learn more from then than they are
K: He’s in NACA, I understand that, but in a certain level, he’s going to from me. And one of Chaffey’s relatives got up and said,
revealing secret information. “John, you’re right, we’ve always known this, there was a fourth
man, but we didn’t know who it was.” Now, I know who the
J: No. As what? name is, but I keep it to myself because...
K: Well, I’m just asking you. Isn’t this, wouldn’t this be secret? J: Oh, right.
J: No. No. J: ...if somebody comes to me, you know and says, “I know who
Thermodynamicist, Douglas Aircraft 1934-44 it is”. I know who it is. And it’s really interesting because his son
Aero Research Scientist, NACA/Ames Laboratory 1944-1956 is a current shuttle astronaut.
Lockheed Missile and Space Company, Van Uys, Supervisor
Flight Test 1956-68 K: Oh, really.
Manager, Flight Test Analysis, 1958-1962
Manager Test Plans and Direction 1962-63 J: Yeah. So anyway, I go to see Norm two years ago, and in
Manager Re-entry Test Operations, 1966... talking with him I said: “By the way, the electromagnetic vehicle
that towed the moon into orbit, where is it now”? And he said, “I
K: Okay, but... think it’s on the back side of the moon”.
J: There’s all this stuff, how qualified this guy is... So when I got hooked up with Ron Schmidt, we started collecting
photos on the back side of the moon and we found it. It’s in the
K: Right. crater Tsiolkovsky. And the story of how we did it was so
interesting and how NASA covered it up. There’s like six
45
different photos of Tsiolkovsky, as they tried to airbrush this K: But why?

electromagnetic vehicle out if the picture by making it an island.
J: Well, there were a number of reasons: 1) They needed more
And ah, but we got them. And we got two really good photos. time. They needed to get the program back on schedule and the
One was discovered by a lady who works for us in Florida, and only way they could do that was to have a horrendous accident.
she discovered it on a thumbnail of Tsiolkovsky. And what And, they wanted to get rid of Grissom. And so the New York
happened, was when NASA was advertising this particular photo, Times - and I forget the guy - broke the story the next day was
you know, they airbrushed the big one, but, when they had the that he talked to NASA, and they said that the tape was gruesome
thumbnail, somebody looked at that and said, “Hey, I’m not of the last few minutes. And of course we’ve all heard that
going to take the time to enlarge that, take the vehicle out and put Grissom didn’t say anything. We all know what he said. He was
it down - nobody’ll notice it anyway.” saying, you know, “You bastards, you’ve...
But we noticed it, and it’s great, and that’s where we got the K: Oh my God.
photo of the EMV on the far side. And then, Apollo 15 flew over
it, and they got some movies of it, and it’s just a quick shot but J: ...YOU’VE KILLED US ALL. I KNEW THIS WAS
it’s really interesting. COMING TO THIS. I HOPE YOU ALL WATCH US DIE.”
And just, really bad. So I’m sure that’s what happened and I saw
K: The secret astronaut who was killed, his son is a shuttle another quote just yesterday and I can’t remember what it was,
astronaut. about how gruesome the tape was.
J: Right. K: Wow.
K: Okay, and this is interesting because it sort of shows how they B: We’d like to ask you if Clark McClelland has got something to
bring someone into the fold who might have something to tell the say about this as well.
world at a later date.
J: Yeah.
J: Right.
B: We’re in touch with Clark, but we haven’t met him.
K: But if he’s a shuttle astronaut, he’s not going to talk.
J: Clark’s a great guy. I’ve known him since 1990. We’ve never
J: Right. met, but we’ve always talked on the phone. I’ve always tried to
get his notes. He has his book ready. He has three books. He
K: Right, he’s in the fold. doesn’t want to publish one of them - he wants to publish all
three. I don’t blame him. He knows a lot of stuff. He knows much
more than I’m telling you.
J: Right. Same thing with Grissom’s son.
K: Do you think that he’s actually going to get his books
K: Oh, really. published - are they going to let them out there?
J: He’s in the program. J: No way! Not a chance in hell.
K: See this would be an interesting investigative angle, would be, K: [Laughs] Okay.
what about all the sons and daughters of the astronauts? Do they
all work for the company?
J: The only thing... I’d like to get them, but, you know, Clark is
so pissed and I don’t know what happened, but I know he is THE
J: Yeah, it would be. Now Gus Grissom - when the fire started, insider, the insider of NASA. There’s nobody in the position that
you know, every single story you read will say that there were could come out and say more than Clark. I mean, he was there
like three words were spoken. Chaffey said, “Fire!” Somebody from the beginning.
said “It’s getting hot in here”, but in every single story, Grissom
doesn’t say anything.
K: Okay.
Now, as you know, Grissom was the most highly critical and
vociferous astronaut in that program. He came out before they B: They’ve done just about everything but kill him, haven’t they?
were supposed to go up, he said, “There are sixty major things He hasn’t got a penny.
with this wrong - how can we possibly be flying this”? He’s the
one that hung the lemon over the Apollo. J: Right. And I don’t know why they haven’t killed him.
And NASA hated him. Now I’ve been told by guys I consider K: Oh right. Yeah, absolutely.
insiders - and there’s another one, call him Number Four - that
NASA didn’t specifically kill those guys, but they let it happen.
They knew it was going to happen and they just let it happen.
46
J: Anyway, one more thing I’m going to tell you about Norm, K: Oh wow.
because we’re going to get into it later. I told Norm the last time,
this is last year I went to the UFO Expo and boy, I’ll tell ya, I got J: You know, that was seven years ago. So that’s what television
some good information. But anyway, I went to see Norm and is coming to is, you won’t have a screen...
he’s not well and he’s had several surgeries and I expect to hear
any day that he’s passed away. He’s 87, and I said, “Norm, I’m
thinking that the airplanes that crashed into the World Trade K: Right.
Center were holograms”. And he said, “John, you’re probably
right, and here’s why.” J: You’ll just turn it on and it’ll be happening right there.
He said, “Just before I retired I was driving down on the Bay K: It’s right there. That’s great, well that makes sense because the
Shore Freeway to Sunnyvale”. and he said, “I had a friend in the Yellow Book...
right seat of the car”. And he says, “Like, it was about 8 o’clock
in the morning, maybe 8:15”. He said, “we’re driving south and J: So, the reason I tell you that story...
we saw this shadow and we looked up, and here...” he says, “It
wasn’t a 747, but it was a HUGE four-engined airplane, it wasn’t
200 feet above us”. And he said, “We looked out at, looked at K: I mean they had the yellow book, right? From, what, the crash
this thing” he said “of course we’re, you know, 20 miles from in 1947? So, and that’s substantiated by Dan Burisch over and
San Jose, you know, and 30 miles from San Francisco. There’s over again. So that’s a, that’s a hologram. You know, technology,
no possible way an airplane could, you know, legitimately be right?
flying right there”.
J: So, the reason I tell you that is...
K: [Laughs]
K: They back-engineered it.
J: And he says, “We watched it for about 10 seconds and it went
[snaps fingers] just like you turned a light bulb out”. And he said, J: ...on ATS, when I first went there, one of the things I talked
“So if that was the contemporary hologram, presentation of a about was that there were no planes on 911. There were no
hologram” he says, “then you’re right”. And a... airplanes at Shanksville...
K: Oh, that’s very interesting. K: This is really dynamite stuff.
J: ...holograph, the holographic technology is so far advanced that J: There was no airplane at the Pentagon, there was no airplane at
people just wouldn’t believe it. But the other day, I had a lady the World Trade Center and I’m telling ya, when I started talking
that was helping Marilee on a casting program. Actually, she about holographs, the dissent, I mean the crush...
hired Marilee. She’s from New York. She had two degrees from
Harvard. She was just a wonderful, smart, receptive lady, and we
K: [Laughs]
were talking about holographs and she says, “Well let me tell
you”, she said “About five years ago, I was invited with about
fifteen other television executives into a private showing in J: ...of guys that were out to kill me, I mean, it was amazing,
Hollywood. there was like twenty guys, “you’re nuts”, you know, “this is
absolutely... you’re doing a disservice to the 911 movement”, you
know, “to find out the truth” you know. You talk about that and
And there was a little auditorium, it wasn’t very big. It could seat
nobody’s going to believe it, but the fact was, it was a holograph
like, maybe, thirty people and the presentation was called, ‘The
and it was CGI and...
Future of Television’ ”. And she said, “I don’t remember whether
Steven Spielberg was there but everyone else was”. And she said
it was “brightly lit and there was a stage and a podium on the K: Right, so can you take us through that? Take us through why
stage and we’re sitting there, and this guy comes out from you think that’s true. And how you got, I mean, you’re a pilot,
behind, and he’s a kind of East German accent, East European you certainly have a vote in whether those planes had the
accent, white hair, has glasses, and he comes out, and he starts capacity to hit those buildings, because our Henry Deacon has
telling us the history of television and how they came up with the told us some very interesting things also about those planes.
first cathode ray tube, and how they did this and how they... and Actually, he thinks they were remote controlled. I don’t know if
he walks down in front of the stage, walks up one of the aisles, THAT’S true, but basically that planes don’t have the ability to
he’s polishing his glasses, walks in front in front of them, walks actually steer in to buildings at that level, I mean, I’m not a pilot
back up to the stage”. And she says, “It was pretty boring”. She so I don’t understand the logistics. But, how did you come
says, “After about twenty minutes, he wraps it up with something around to this?
‘and that’s the history of television’ ”. And he puts his glasses on
and, [snaps finger] just like a light, goes out”. J: Okay, first of all we’re going to talk about... Flight 11 and 77
didn’t exist in the beginning. The Bureau of Transportation
K: He disappeared? [Laughs] He was a hologram? Statistics has no record of them taking off, has no, you know, so
let’s forget about them because they did not exist.
J: Yeah, and so...
So now we’re just talking about [Flight] 175 and Flight 93. Flight
93 allegedly crashed in Shanksville. Anybody who has any
47
background in accident investigation or any background at all, B: We have a credible witness, who says that the planes weren’t
can’t possibly believe that an airplane crashed. There was no piloted, but they were remotely controlled, like unmanned
wreckage. It just simply could not happen. vehicles from thousands of miles away.
K: Okay. K: I just said that.
J: As far as 175 hitting the South Tower, I just recently put in a B: And he said... Yes, but I’m asking John to comment on that,
call to a Pan American Flight Simulator in Miami to see if I could from the point of view of, this also answers the question raised by
rent a 767-200, which they have. And what I wanted to do was the fact that no human pilot could have hit that small target.
take six candidates, six candidate pilots. One current and
qualified in the 767-200; one maybe qualified, but not current; J: No airplane crashed in the World Trade Center. First of all,
and then one maybe current in a high speed jet, but not the 767; remote controlling an airplane that size or any size is very
and then the last three, the same currency as the alleged hijackers, difficult. I don’t believe you could remote control an airplane the
like a couple hours in an Apache, a private license, maybe a size of a 767-200 anyway, particularly to hit dead center of the
commercial, something like that. World Trade Center. But the fact is, there was no wreckage from
ANY airplane in the World Trade Center.
And what I would do is in the simulator, you can take them up so
that New York is just like it is. I mean the buildings are there. I And by “no wreckage” I mean, nothing was found of any size
would take them and freeze them in a position 20 miles out at anywhere around. Now, there was a panel of a fuselage that you
7,000 feet, at 560 mph, put them in the seat, say, and then give see with five window shades, but when each airplane, American
them two minutes of looking at the horizons, show them where Airlines in the North Tower and United Airlines in the South
the World Trade Center is, and say, “I’m about to release you and Tower, hit, it was two-fifths of a second while they disappeared
when I do, you’ll have a minute and fifty seconds to hit dead in the airplane. So, in two-fifths of a second you’re not going to
center. Now, the World Trade Center is 220 feet wide, you got to have a panel about seven feet long drift down and just be lying
hit to the center. Not left or right, right - to the center.” And there in almost perfect condition, unless it was accompanied by
explain how it goes, and then I would have one camera pointing Mohammed Atta’s passport.
at the pilot and one camera pointing at what he’s looking at.
K: [Laughs]
K: Alright.
J: The only other thing that was found was the engine on Murray
J: And then say, [snaps fingers] “GO”. And say, “Okay now, Street. And, the engine on Murray Street has been identified as
show me how easy this is”. You know, ‘cause all the guys on either a CFM-56 - CFM stands for Snecma - OR the CF-6, which
ATS, “Oh, I did that in flight simulator, no problem”, you know. was a 767 engine, which was developed out of the CFM-56. But
It’s, it’s impossible. At the height of my career, as proficient as I whichever one it was the CF6 or the CFM56, it had to be General
was in every kind of airplane, there’s no way I could have done Electric and unfortunately, or fortunately, United Airlines used
that. I mean, it’s just too complex. strictly Pratt and Whitney. So that engine you see flying off and
that engine they say is from 175, isn’t from 175, because the
First of all, the airplane can’t fly above 560 pmh. It can’t fly guys, whose job was to dump it off there you know, and a
more than 360, which is its Velocity Max Operating. Maybe smoking, smoldering thing, dumped off the wrong engine. There
could fly, maybe, thirty, forty miles an hour faster than that, but were a lot of things that the perps did that were suspect here. The
at VMO the clacker comes on. The clacker is an FAA required collapse of building number seven is just absolutely ridiculous.
safety device which clacks LOUD: clack-clack-clack, clack-
clack-clack. And it clacks at a rate and a cycle that irritates the K: Right.
pilot, so that he can’t ignore it. He has to slow down, you know.
Now, there’s no possibility a hijacker, first time in the airplane, is
not only going to, you know, fly it at 390, 400 mph... J: And the reason they had to do it that way is because, I suspect,
the holographic projector, that projected flight 175 and flight 11,
somehow became disabled - because Flight 93 was the one that
K: [Laughs] was supposed to crash into building seven and when they
couldn’t do it, they had to do things quickly. They could fake 93
J: ...but do it with that clacker... crashing in Shanksville and I could imagine these guys, all day
long, “What are we going to do?”
K: Right.
Nobody’s going to believe this thing just collapsed, you know,
J: ...and descend and hit that thing center. Can’t happen. No. from a little fire, and about 5 o’clock, you know, they said well,
let’s go ahead and do it, maybe no one will notice. So they
collapsed this forty-seven story building into its footprint, and
B: I have a question here, if I may. expect everybody to believe it - and of course they did.
J: Yeah. K: Okay, so they collapsed it into its footprint... but what did they
use? I mean, don’t they have scalar weaponry? Can’t they just hit
it?
48
J: Yes, we do but, that particular thing was collapsed because it K: No.

had controlled demolition just like the World Trade Center.
J: [To Bill] Do you know who he is?
K: Right.
B: No. I don’t.
J: The World Trade Center, what they did with controlled
demolition is the FIRST part was to make what we call the Wily J: Ron Blackburn was with Lockheed for 30 years. He was with
Coyote Cutout in the face, like an airplane crashed in it, which is the stealth program, stealth program project up at Groom Lake
absolutely, insanely ridiculous - but a lot of people believed it. for 20 years. He was the one that I first heard there was aliens at
And then the other thing is they had to controlled demolitions to the test site. Now, when I first met him 10, 15 years ago, he
cut each girder to 30 feet, so it would fit on Rudy Giuliani’s denied knowing everything, now he’s gotten a little bit more lax
trucks going out of town. about what he says. I mean he said up at Groom Lake there was
an administration building just for the aliens up there. Ron was at
The World Trade Center was collapsed by a direct energy my birthday party here.
weapon, being operated from one of the outer space weapons
platforms, and the reason we know is because of the size of the K: [Laughs] So we need to get to this guy as well.
dust that was left of the concrete. It was approximately 80
microns, and that’s what a direct energy weapon collapses when
it’s pointed down. That’s what it uses, it’s called “molecular J: He’s retired now, he’s retired. He’s very careful about what he
disassociation”. I mean, it just disassociates the molecular says.
structure of concrete and that’s why all that dust was there. There
was just nothing left. K: Okay.
K: Nice one... J: He still has a retirement. But he came to my birthday party, and
a he told us about holographic projections. He says they contain
J: And that’s why the basement of the World Trade Center was the sound, light, heat, everything, I mean everything is there. One
molten for six weeks, is because, when it finally does hit the of the people, one of the problems that people have with
ground, it heats it up so much. You can pour as much water as holographic projections... Well I saw it, it couldn’t have been.
you want, it’s not going to cool off for a time. So I believe all of You know, like, they think of holographic projections like you
this was controlled by the E-4B, the Doomsday airplane, the 747 see in Las Vegas or at a birthday party, you know.
that was seen flying over the White House.
K: Right.
I think there is the one that did the holographic projection, and
they also transmitted the CGI, computer graphics, to the different J: Where it’s a little dancing light like there.
TV channels, to show the airplanes allegedly crashing. That’s
why we had the accidental nose out on one of the, on one of the K: Where you can see through it.
buildings. They were the ones that sent the alleged cell phone
messages, which never occurred. They did all kinds of stuff.
They made probably transponder things for the different ATCs to J: Yeah, and they say...
phone.
K: And, so you know it’s there.
K: So you’re saying the hologram had to come out of, had to be
done by a plane in the air? J: “Well, I saw it, couldn’t be”. You know it’s ridiculous. And
then they say, “well, how would they have done the sound, they
J: Yeah. would have had to have speakers all up and down, you know, the
street.” It’s too bad people, you know, they don’t really realize
how far we are advanced with our technology. They were fooled,
K: Really. it was a scam. It was a psi-op.
J: It was done by a projector. A holographic projector. K: Okay, so who ran it?
K: Oh, yeah. Okay, so, the technology exists out there. Have you, J: Basically I call them the “Nasty NASA Nazis”, in the middle
I mean, and I understand that you talked to your friend, who of the military-industrial complex. Hoagland tells exactly who
wrote the book... they are and how they took over, and that’s who ran it. Now, in
March 31st, 2007, last year, a guy named Morgan Reynolds, if
J: Norm Bergrun. you’ve heard the name?
K: Norm, but where else have you heard about this holographic K: Yes.
technology?
J: Okay... he filed a suit called the Qui Tam Complaint, against
J: Ron Blackburn... you know who he is? these 22 companies. And we’re talking about major companies
49
here. Science Applications, International Corporation, Applied J: Okay, we’re talking about April Gallup.
Research, Hughes - all these companies right here are being sued,
and what they’re being sued for is accepting money for providing K: Right, April, okay.
a government agency with fraudulent information.
J: April Gallup was an Army Specialist, and I forget what her job
The government agency they provided with this fraudulent was but, she was - she had a Top Secret clearance. She was
information is NIST - The National Institute of Standards in sitting about 40 feet from the - where the explosion made the hole
Technology. NIST was asked by President Bush to determine in the front of the Pentagon and she had her six-month-old son
exactly why the World Trade Center collapsed. What actually right below her desk and she thought that was odd because,
caused it to collapse. And they came up with a reason that, you usually, when she went to work, before going through security,
know, the jet fuel and it was just so far ridiculous, that Morgan they had to put the little kids in day care, but on that day, security
filed this suit and it’s FORTY PAGES and he outlines everything said, “No, take the kid in with you”.
that they got wrong. And so the suit has been going along in court
now.
So, she had it - she had the kid right below in his little holder
there, and she says it was really strange because as she pressed
K: And you testified as to the holographic planes as part of the the ON button for her computer, that’s when the building
suit, right? exploded, and she said a lot of debris came down on her and she
saw the hole over there and she thought, “I got to get out of
J: Well what I did is I filed an affidavit on January 28th, 2008, here”. So she picked up her kid, put him over her back, and went
this year, in support of the Complaint and in opposition to the towards that opening and she got through that opening onto the
Motion To Dismiss. And basically, what I testified is: 1) why the grass - which is where, eventually, the triage was set up.
airplanes couldn’t have traveled as fast as they did and HOW
they couldn’t be flown as well as they were, and why there, you But she said she saw no missile, saw no airplanes, smelled no
know, there was no wreckage in there. And I think this book... fuel. There was no airplane in there. And later in the hospital she
got interviewed by Army Intelligence and they asked her what
K: It’s amazing that other pilots haven’t come forward because she saw, and she started to say “I didn’t see anything” and they
this is... said “No, yes you did. You saw a Boeing 757 crash into there”.
She says “No, no, no, I didn’t. There was nothing there”. And
J: Well, other pilots are employed; they can’t afford to come she’s gone through hell for the last four or five years trying to get
forward. There’s very few, you know, people, there’s a lot of... medical care.
K: But this is our COUNTRY we’re talking about... It’s been a really very, very sad story. But, one of the things I
wanted to show this is a page from a military manual talking
about stuff that they would like to get in the year 2025. This is
J: They can’t do it. A lot of my information was taken from called airborne holographic projector, you can see where I got it.
Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators [holds up the booklet] and I You can’t get it any more here, was www.au.af.mil and I got
explain WHY an airplane cannot fly 500 mph at a thousand feet. about 250 pages of this stuff...
It has to do with drag, and it has to do with power and it has to do
with the fact that they use turbofans. It just can’t happen. So
anyway the government’s and NIST’s contention is that they flew K: It’s talking about a hologram machine.
500 mph - it didn’t happen. It couldn’t happen.
B: It refers to enemy perception management, is that right? That’s
So basically that’s what I explained in my suit. Now, you say such a wonderful euphemism. Have I remembered that right?
why don’t many pilots come forward? Many have, there’s an
organization called www.PilotsForTruth.com and I’m a member, J: Yeah, it says... brief description: “The holograph projector
one of the earlier members of that, and there’s a lot of people that plays a three dimensional visual image in a desired location,
realize that this couldn’t have possibly happened. There was no, removed from a display generator. The projector can be used for
an airplane like a Boeing 757 flying into the Pentagon. No, that psychological operations and strategic perception management.
didn’t happen. It is also useful for optical deception, and cloaking, providing a
momentary distraction when engaging an unsophisticated
K: So what happened at the Pentagon? adversary. And it has capabilities, precision projection of a three
dimensional visual images into a selected area. Supports [si-op
and strategic deception management and provides deception and
J: At the Pentagon, a bomb went off to make that hole there and cloaking against optical centers.”
they had a 55 gallon drum of diesel fuel that a guy lit, to make all
that black smoke there. And April Gallup who...
K: Okay, and when was that written, do you know?
K: Yeah, I think the April Gallup story is fascinating.
J: I think in ‘99. I’m not sure. I’ll give you an address where you
can get it NOW.
J: ...April Gallup was a...
K: Okay.
K: Okay, so let’s, let’s go back where we were, which is...
50
J: It’s not at THAT address. J: Well they could use that hybrid high energy laser, you know,
they got plenty of stuff they could use.
K: Right.
K: Right.
J: But I think it’s at Maxwell Air Force Base.
J: But it was just odd that, you know, that it would be all ready on
K: We have to believe if that’s out in the public sector, that this is PAPER, available to the public to show them where they’re
just the tip of the iceberg as far as this technology goes. going to be attacking.
J: Absolutely. K: Okay, this is...
B: Strategic Perception Management. Isn’t that just wonderful? B: What you said to us off-camera, just before we started, was
you felt there was going to be, I think you used the words nuclear
war.
K: It’s great.
J: Oh yeah, I have no doubt that we’re going to nuke Iran. I’m
B: I just think that’s so great. sure that’s in the plan and Cheney certainly wants to do it. I don’t
know have any inside information, but It looks to me, like, one of
K: Alright. the scenario, possible scenarios, would be that Bush gets
assassinated in October. Cheney becomes President and then
B: An unsophisticated enemy, like the people in the streets of declares Martial Law. And then something happens and where
New York. we “have to” attack Iran. Of course, we won’t attack Iran - we’ll
get Israel to do it. And, they’ll attack them with their nukes and
then we’ll slap them on the wrist by saying we’re going to give
J: [Laughs] I was going to say that. you 50 billion dollars for a rehabilitation program here, so that
you won’t nuke anybody else. Psychological rehabilitation
B: [Laughing] program. We’ll give them, you know...
J: And I thought, you know what - I don’t think that I’ll say that! K: Okay, but nobody’s going to get away with nuking anyone, I
mean, in other words, you’re going to have China, you’re going
to have Russia, I mean, basically we’re going to be at World War
K: [Laughing]
III at that point, right?
B: Nothing personal against New York.

J: Yeah, but it won’t be that big. What they’re going to do is cut
the cables, communication cables...
J: But they have, and when you go into it, they have what they
call the hybrid high energy laser system [HELWEPA...High-
K: Oh, the undersea cable thing.
Energy Laser Weapon Systems Applications]. But when you go
in here and get a close up of this system, it’s showing you how
they could attack right between Iran and Afghanistan. It’s J: Yeah, so that there’s not a lot of communications, so that they
hilarious, you know, it’s - that’s where they’re going to be can give...
attacking and that’s where they knew they were going to be
attacking back in, you know, 1999, you know. And that, that was K: So no one knows what’s really happening.
published then so, you can see how far ahead they plan this stuff.
I mean they plan it thirty years ahead. I was looking for that
page... J: No one really knows what’s happening. It will all be handled
on an upper level. All this is handled on an upper level. All this
has been planned in communication with, and in agreement with
K: Okay, when you say they’re going to be attacking between China and Russia. They all know what’s going on. So it’ll be,
Iran and... you know, just to try out new weapons and...
J: Afghanistan. That’s where the pipeline is coming, they want K: Well, actually, this is what, again, our Henry Deacon says. He
that area. says China’s in on it. There’s going to be a war with China, but
they already know it’s planned.
K: Okay, right, so that’s why we’re going to war with Iran, is
what you’re saying. J: Yeah, of course. And like everybody was ready for the
Japanese Yakuza and the Chinese satellite and on ATS they said
J: Yeah, we want to clear that area so we can run the pipeline “they’ll tell us what’s going on, they’ll give us the real picture”
down there. and all they did was recycle old NASA pictures, you know. And
of course China was very embarrassed. You know they said
“these are not recycled NASA pictures”, but you could go right to
K: It sounds like you’re saying they’re going to use a special kind
where, you know, yes, that was an old recycled NASA picture.
of weapon to attack there.
Now, what they’re doing up there orbiting the moon, if they ARE
51
orbiting the moon, I don’t know. But they’re certainly not taking J: No.
pictures, you know, that they could use for themselves. [pause]
K: Okay, [long pause] What about 2012 and a hologram of an
K: Why not? alien invasion, have you heard this scenario?
J: Because they’re already in on it, they already know what’s J: Absolutely. It would be probably what they’re going to do.
there, I mean, you know we mined them...
K: [Laughs]
K: So what’s the modus operandi behind doing all of this? I
mean, why are they, why are they going to plan wars - nuclear J: They’re going to put a hologram and say “Oh, we’re being
you’re talking about - nuclear wars where, you know, millions of attacked by aliens. We’ve made a deal with the ambassador and
people are going to die, land is going to become uninhabitable. I he says that they feel that Earth is a threat and that; but, if you all
mean, you know, this is crazy - even if they wanted to keep a take all, any weapons you have and turn them in, that they’ll give
pipeline... us a second chance.
J: That sounds like a good reason. K: So at that point we have one world government because...
K: There, what’s the point of making the LAND, I mean, you J: Yeah.
know...
K: ...they could put everybody under the same roof and basically
J: You know, they’ve cleaned up nuclear weapons in the past all the countries, your talking not individuals bringing their
thirty years, they don’t have that much radiation. rifles...
K: Why go nuclear though? I mean it’s so messy. Why would, I J: Yeah, individuals. Yeah that’s one of the things the aliens want
mean, you know, I’m not a military guy, but if they’ve got scalar is for all you guys, you know, to turn in your individual weapons
weaponry and they’ve got HAARP, I mean, you know; they’ve so that they don’t feel so much of a threat.
got earthquakes they can cause, I mean, there are a lot of other
things they can do besides going, I mean, that just seems like the
nth degree of insanity. Why would they do it? K: But aliens, come on, okay, so this is a scenario...
J: You know it’s like asking when I talk about Endeavor and the J: It’s a scenario where the government wants to disarm us and
space shuttle being such an outmoded method of getting to the they way is to put a hologram up there of an attack and they say
ISS... we’ve been in communications with them and...
K: Right. K: A common enemy and...
J: ...and people say “well if we have all this cool stuff that you J: Right.
say like, you know satellites and anti-grav stuff and everything,
why do they use the space shuttle?” It’s the same thing with the K: ...it’s a fake enemy.
nuke thing. There’s levels of secrecy, levels of intelligence, you
want to keep a certain segment of the people knowing just, you J: ...and you can really help us if you’ll turn in all your weapons.
know, thinking that the space shuttle is all we got, you know, and Of course by the time we’ve turned in all weapons, there’s not
nuclear weapons are “all we got”, so we use those. It’s that type much we can do, when we find out it’s just a scam - like 911 was.
of deal. Yeah, that’s a scenario I’m sure that’s going to happen.
K: Okay, so you’re going to kill millions of people, eliminate... Part 2
J: I don’t think it’ll be MILLIONS, but it’ll be a few. John Lear: He’s driving home by the time I get to Los Angeles
and get my cell phone.
K: And what is Iran going to do at that point? You know?
I said: Bob?
J: Oh, they’ll get all pissed off. I don’t really know what they’ll
do. He says: Where the hell are you?
K: Uh huh. Ok, do you have any inside contacts about THIS? And I said: Well, I accidentally got on the wrong airplane. I’m in
Los Angeles.
J: Ahh, let’s see. About Iran, about nuking Iran?
So that was the big laugh for about five years, that John Lear gets
K: Yeah. on the wrong airplane.
52
And before they gave him his clearance they said: Now Bob,
you’re not going to cause us any more problems, are you? And
he said No.
Start of interview
K: Well, they basically threatened him to get him to come back

Kerry: [laughing] OK. And with your ideas - and they’re pretty
in. Isn’t that right? I mean, he was having all kinds of problems
cutting-edge basically - do your friends agree with you?
right before that.
J: I don’t have any friends. [Kerry laughs, John laughs]

J: I... didn’t hear that part.
K: Come on, John. I don’t believe you. You’re one of the most
K: OK. But he’s been inside for about four years.
charming guys we’ve come across.
J: I think so.
J: My good friend Bob Lazar thinks I am nuts. So...
K: OK. And you’re saying that it’s possible he might give

K: Does he really?
interviews.
J: Yeah. He told us at the birthday party.

J: Yeah. Yeah, he did the Travel Channel a couple years ago.
And just the other day he did somebody else, you know. But it
K: And he works on UFOs, so ... would be best that you guys not mention my name. [Kerry
laughs]. Just call him up out of the blue, you know.
J: As a matter of fact, if you’ll reach behind you, I would like to
read his birthday present to me. It’s that cup that says “JL.” K: OK. But he’s your friend, right?
K: All right. J: Yeah. Yeah, he’s a good friend. He came to my birthday party
and it was really great.
J: Just hand it over here. [Kerry laughs] Now, Bob Lazar had this
made for me and this is my birthday present. Basically, what it As I’ve told you... I used to have two wicker chairs here. In 1987
is... I started talking about UFOs. I gave a lecture at the Spring Valley
Library. Well, it created such a ruckus here in Las Vegas! People
K: [laughs, hands cup to John] What does it say? were calling, there were people wanting to interview me. I mean,
it just EXPLODED. And, of course, it disrupted my family here
because people were calling. Marilee eventually had my phone
J: [reading cup and turning it toward camera] ... is the Periodic
shut off. She took all my UFO files. [Kerry laughs] I mean, it was
Table of Elements. And the Periodic Table of 116 is “JL.” And it
bad.
says it’s “a human solid.” And the atomic mass is 256.89. And it
has all the stuff there [running finger around image on cup]. And
then it says: And so, in 1988, a guy called. He said: My name is Gene Huff.
I’m a real estate appraiser and I’d like to get some of your tapes
and stuff.
• Element: John Lear.
• Occurrence: Found primarily in Nevada. [Kerry laughs]
• Physical properties: JL is a rare and unstable element. It is I said: Gene, I’m out of it. You know. It’s almost cost me my
best known for its remarkable ability to resist common sense family. I’m just not doing it.
and facts. [Kerry laughing]
• Applied liberally, JL has been known to improve the quality He says: OK, well, you know, if you ever want to trade some
of lives. It is also known to absorb great quantities of tapes, I’ll trade you a real estate appraisal for it.
expensive substances. It is one of the most powerful money-
reducing agents known to man. And I said: Oh, wait a minute. Because, you know, I needed
• Prolonged exposure to this element can cause severe some money. I said: I’ll tell you what. I’ll get you those tapes and
physical, mental, and financial damage.” [laughs; Bill and you appraise my house.
Kerry laughing off camera]
So he came over the day after that to do the measurements. Of
K: That’s great. [laughing] OK. And you told us off camera that course, he had no idea it was 7,700 square feet! He’s complained
Bob Lazar has gone back in, working for the government. ever since because he had to do such a huge house for just a
couple of tapes and some information.
J: Yeah, he works back at Los Alamos National Laboratories.
Well, anyway, when he came over he brought this guy named
K: What’s he working on? Bob Lazar, and he introduced him to me. Bob was the guy
holding the end of the measuring tape.
J: Have no idea. One of the things he told us is when he went
back to work they had a short chat with him [Kerry, Bill laugh].
53
And he said: Bob used to work at Los Alamos National He said: Yeah.
Laboratories, and he lives in town now and develops photos.
And I said: What are you doing HERE? [Kerry laughs] I said:
And so I said Great, you know. Obviously they’re going to follow you. Why didn’t you just, you
know, work there for a while and then come and tell us what
So Gene and I were talking about UFOs and Bob was rolling his happened?
eyes. He said: You guys are nuts. This could not be true. I worked
at Los Alamos. I had a “Q” clearance. If it’d been true, I woulda He says [Kerry laughing]: Because I’ve seen you take so much
known about it, I did enough snooping around there. crap over the past 6 months about this. I’m telling you it’s real. I
saw it, I touched it.
So he didn’t want to hear about any of this stuff.
You know. And then we spent about two hours talking about
So anyway, that was like in June of ’88. So over the next four or stuff. And it was just totally shocking, and...
five months, Gene and I and Bob exchanged information. And
Bob, you know, he... There was three or four things that pushed K: OK. But tell us that story. I mean, we got it on the other tape.
him over from “This is totally ridiculous,” to “It might be true.” But it’s just so much fun, where he sits down and says: John,
And one of them was, in those days we knew about a secret you’ll never know what it’s like ...
facility at Los Alamos called YY-II, and my information was that
it was where they held aliens there. And then there was J: That was January. And he’d been up there two or three times,
something else. But anyway, Bob found out - Yeah, there WAS or four or five. I don’t know how many. And I remember it was
YY-II. And yeah, it was WAY more classified than he could get January, because it was bitter cold and I had a short-sleeved shirt
in. And there was like three or four things. on like this [rubs his bare arm].
And anyway, in November, that was when Bob decided that: And Bob comes in and sits there and, you know, he’s just ON.
Well, you know, I think I’ll see if I can get a job up at Area 51. So He’s LIT. And he wants to talk about something. And we already
he called Dr. Teller, who he knew from Los Alamos. And I think knew we shouldn’t talk in here. So we went out by the pool.
I was there when Bob talked to him.
And Marilee’s coming this way and she says: What are you two
And Teller said: Do you want to work out here at Lawrence doing? You know? [laughs]
Livermore with me, or there in Nevada?
We’re going out to talk. You know. And she’s suspicious of
And Bob said: I want to work at Groom Lake. [smiles broadly] ANYTHING anyway, and so she doesn’t believe that for a
And so Teller said: Well OK, let me get back with you. second. But she lets us go.
So then, Bob had three interviews down at EG&G, and he would So we went out in the little back place by the stable. And I’m
come up here after each interview. And I remember, after his looking at him, saying: WHAT? What? What?
second interview, the first question was: Do you know John
Lear? And: What do you think of John Lear?
And he said: John, you will never know what it’s like to see your
first alien.
And Bob said: Yeah, I know ’im. And I think he sticks his nose
into places where it doesn’t belong. And Bob told me: What I
DIDN’T tell them was I ALSO like to stick my nose into places I said [excited]: You SAW one? You saw one?
where it doesn’t belong. [Kerry laughs].
He said: Yeah.
So he got his third interview and he told us, you know, he aced
them, because they talked about really technical stuff. And he just I said: It couldn’t’ve been a doll? It couldn’t have been...
laid it out. And he said: I did a good job. [He said]: No. It WAS one. [Kerry laughing].
Anyway, the next thing I know it’s December 6th of 1988. And, you know, these days, you ask him that question, he says:
Bob comes, sits down, and he says: I saw a disk today. “Well, I don’t know. Coulda been a doll. They were doing all
And I’m writing out checks there, you know. I’m not paying these weird stuff.”
attention. I said: What?
K: Oh, yeah.
He says: I saw a disk today.
J: But THAT night, that’s EXACTLY what he said.
And I...: A disk? Theirs or ours?
K: OK.
And he said: Theirs.
J: And I said: How’d it happen?
I said: You went to Groom Lake?
54
He says: Well, I was walking down the corridor. He said: I got a Later, if you want... I have a transcript of the second one, and I’ll
guard on each side. And, he said, I walked by this door and there let you read it. Because it’s extremely interesting.
is like a 12-inch windowpane [gestures to indicate size of
window]; it has wires through it. And I looked through it and K: That would be great.
there’s two guys in lab coats facing me. And an alien standing up
talking to them.
J: [shows a sketch on paper] This is when Bob was telling me
how you went forward and backward in time.
Now, did I show you that picture?
K: OK. I was going to ask you that. So Bob worked on time
K: I don’t think so. travel, didn’t he?
J: ‘Cause he drew it for me. J: He didn’t work on it. He was briefed on it. See, when he went
up there...
K: Oh really!
K: If he knew Teller, he must’ve... And he worked at Los
J: Do you want me to get it? Alamos.
K: Yeah. Absolutely. J: He only knew Teller because he met him that day in front of
Los Alamos when Teller was giving his speech and Bob was on
J: [indicating papers on desk] These are a lot of stuff I kept from the cover of the Los Alamos Monitor with his jet-car. And he
Bob. [shows diagram] For instance, here’s how security clearance walked up to Dr. Teller and said: I’m the guy you’re reading
works. The lowest clearance you can get is Top Secret. And then about. And the doctor said: Oh, really neat. And they had a little
above that, there’s 28 levels of Top Secret Crypto. And then chat. But that’s the only place he knew him from. He didn’t work
above that, there’s 10 levels. Now, these aren’t the real names, WITH him. But he did work at Los Alamos and he did listen to
except the top one is Majestic. Teller talk.
Now, each one of these are compartmentalized. So that you may K: OK. I see.
have Top Secret Crypto 25, but you don’t get to know ALL that
information. All you get to know is what you’re cleared for. In J: So Bob, when he went up to S-4, they said: You have to choose
other words, when you get Top Secret Crypto 25, somebody what you want to do. You can’t have a little bit of it all. You have
doesn’t come and tell you: This is ALL the stuff that the guys in to choose. You know, do you want to work on this or that. And
the Top Secret Crypto 25 get to know. It’s compartmentalized. Bob wanted to work on reverse engineering the propulsion. That
was his job. But he got briefed on all this. And what he’s
So we had this to show that the President of the United States is, showing me here [close-up of drawing] is how you go forward in
like, Top Secret Crypto 17. He doesn’t need to know very much. time - which is just exerting a strong gravitational pull. And how
He’s a figurehead. He’s told what to do. you go aft. And he started drawing it like that, and then he put in
a scribble. So anyway, these were the...
K: Right.
[Holds up next paper] Bob Lazar 1987. He was drawing me the
different shapes of vehicles that were at S-4. And this one
J: So he doesn’t really need to know all this. To my [pointing], what he’s doing here is he’s showing me one that had
understanding, the last President that was given any kind of a been hit by a projectile.
briefing was President Nixon. Ford knew a little bit. Reagan
knew a little bit. Of course, Bush knew something because he
was, you know, Director of the CIA. That doesn’t mean they tell [going through papers] And when I first started showing Bob the
the Director of the CIA anything. He’s an appointed office and pictures of the Moon, and showing him stuff that was on there
they HATE appointees, so he knew that for other reasons. But [looking through papers]... You know, I would say: Look at this.
anyway this is how that chart worked. Look at that, you know, vapor, and this... and that. And he kind
of looked at me real skeptical.
[Picks up a cassette tape] These are the... When Bob decided
NOT to go back to work for the government, we took him into I was walking out the door of his home, and he says: You know,
three regressive hypnosis sessions. And they were with Lane John, if any of this stuff is true, I’m going to have to kill myself.
Keck. And Lane was supposed to be at my birthday party and I [Kerry laughs]
don’t remember why he didn’t come. Or maybe he did come. I
think he did come. We’ll see on that DVD. And so I said: You know, why don’t I get that on paper, Bob?
But he did the regressions for Bob. And what we tried... It was So [close-up of paper] I had him sign this to me. It says: I, Bob
EXTREMELY interesting. The first one we didn’t get, because Lazar, promise to kill myself is any of John’s Moon stuff is true.
the tape recorder broke, and Gene Huff has those on notes. But Signed Bob Lazar, August 23rd, 1996. [Kerry laughs]
the SECOND one - I have the second one - and that’s where we
tried to pull the information out. And I’ll tell you what here.
55
Well, what happened is, when I finally got somebody, you J: I realize that we went to get this. [Pulls paper out of stack]
know... when I ordered that photograph from NASA? You know, Now, the original is blue and I’m sure it’s here somewhere. But
they sent me the negative. You know? It was a 16 x 20 negative. this is the original drawing he made me. [close-up of sketch]:
“Drawn by Bob Lazar, January 1988. This scene is at S-4.
K: Right. Position of gray in relation to two scientists in lab coats. Size,
orientation and construction of window” through which he saw
scientists and a Gray.
J: And it took me, you know, five or six years before the
technology got... even to Las Vegas, to make a positive of that
size negative. So when I got it, I took it over to Bob’s house So this is... We were sitting... He was scribbling all over. [Rotates
and... [camera zooming in on photo] There’s a little one right paper] This is the test site and where S-4 was. [pointing] This
here. This is the first I got and I took it over to Bob and he was the length of the hangars, 360 feet and each bay was 40 feet
scanned it. And those are the scans that went on ATS. And so up long. [Rotates paper again] This was how the saucer sat in the
here [pointing to photo] – I’ll let you do a close-up later – there’s hangar. And this drawing right here is the two... And this is what
obviously what looks like a parking garage. Bob drew. [pointing] These are the two lab technicians. And
that’s the little alien facing the other way. He drew the door and
he drew that wire going through the window. He said he looked
So, Bob looks at it and looks at it and looks at it. And he says: through that and saw those guys right there.
Yeah. He says: I’ve got to admit. That is not natural.
K: That’s great. Did he ever have any exposure, like communi-
That is something. cation with them?
And so I said: You know, Bob, we’ve been friends for a long time, J: Yeah. Three times. At least three times.
and I know you are a man of your honor. And you have agreed
that if any of my Moon stuff was true, that you would kill
yourself. [Kerry laughs]. K: Really?
And he says: Well, is there any way I can get out of it? J: I’ll just show this [holding another paper] because this is on the
And I said: Yeah. Yeah, as a matter of fact, why don’t you just back side of the piece of paper. This is Aurora. And this is the
sign this statement here? [Kerry laughs] airplane we have the cruises at 250,000 feet and goes Mach 12.
And that was in 1988. And this is what it looked like when he
stepped down from the Boeing 737... When he walked down the
And [showing paper] this is August 5th, 1998. This is two years ramp this way, that thing was parked towards him, so he was
later. It says: I, Bob Lazar, in return for not having to honor my looking up the tail. And he said it was absolutely enormous. He
commitment to kill myself if any of John’s Moon stuff was true, said there was two giant squares where the exhaust was. And he
do freely admit that the object in the crater Copernicus on the said a man would look like a little doll, you know, standing in
Moon, saved as “apple crate,” is a box, which I don’t know what those.
it’s doing there. Signed, Bob Lazar.
K: Wow.
Now that’s the best I could get him to do.
Bill Ryan [off camera]: He’s looking at it from behind?
[close-up of Moon photo] But that is the infamous parking garage
on ATS that I show everybody. And people say: No, I don’t see a
parking garage. But, I’ll show you the enlargements later. But J: He’s looking at it from behind. Yeah.
anyway...
K: Yeah.
These are some more. [close-up of drawing] This is the original
drawing he did on how the anti-matter reactor worked. And this J: So he doesn’t know exactly. He just assumed that that’s what it
is how he showed me the arches were in the... looked like in plan view.
K: And that was what year? So anyway, the three times that he saw the alien was... The first
time was when they gave him the pine-smelling fluid. And what
J: This is all between December of 1988 and March of 1989. they did... It’s really interesting. When Bob came in here the very
first day and he said, I saw a disk, I said... And he used to wear a
ring. And I forget which finger it was on.
[shows paper] And these are the notes I kept: Meeting with Bob
Lazar, November 2nd, 1988, because I typed up this stuff.
I said: OK, now listen to me, Bob. They’re going to... they’re
going to give you some drugs to make you forget what you’re
K: I see. Now, did he draw an alien for you or not? doing. So what I want you to do is, when they take you in to give
you the drugs, I want you to take your ring of – subtly - and put it
J: Yeah. on your other hand. You won’t remember, but when you come up
to see me, I’ll see it and you’ll know you’ve already taken the
K: You got it there? Because we’d love to see that. [John looking drug.
through papers]
56
He said: They already did that today. tilted about 40 degrees, and it was gold, and it had this stuff
radiating off it.
K: Oh wow.
And I said: Quick, Gene, quick! Take a look! And as I stepped
J: I said: They did? back, I hooked my foot around the thing. So, that came up at the
birthday party, because everybody at the birthday party was
supposed to tell a John Lear story. [Kerry laughs] And that was
And he described this elaborate drug test of, you know, how they Bob’s story.
took a needle and they put a rectangle on his - scratched a
rectangle on his arm - and then made lines like this [gestures
criss-crossing lines on his arm] and lines like that. And then K: OK, well, also the story about getting stopped on the road, and
they’d take stuff and put into each little square like that. the gun, and the car, and the cop...
And then they took him into a room. And he said the room was J: Right. That was when the County Sheriff stopped us. And that
just like a regular doctor’s office and a couch, and he lay on the was the third time we got caught.
couch. And he said there was a screen blocking something, and
he said he knew the alien, the Gray, was behind it. And there was But the point of that story was that when they took him in the
a military guy with an M-16 and a doctor and a nurse. next morning to Indian Springs - which is the center of the all the
security - and took him out of the car with a gun in his ear, they
And they had him drink the pine-smelling fluid. And he drank the said: Now Bob, when we gave you this clearance it meant you
cup. And immediately he felt, you know, dizzy. And he described were not supposed to tell a-l-l-l your friends about the flying
exactly what he felt like. He said he felt like he was in a well that saucers. Now, do you want to work here or not?
was 100 feet deep, that his arms were 100 feet long, and he was
just holding on to the sides of the well, just barely with his And that’s when Bob was non-committal, because the last two
fingertips. That’s what he felt like. flights he had taken up to Groom Lake, he could remember
walking up the steps and walking down, but he couldn’t
He said then they started to read the clearance, the briefing of the remember anything in between. And he said he didn’t want to
clearance, which he was being given. So they’d say, you know, work on a program like that.
they’d read a sentence. And he’d say: And I understand that, you
know, I am being briefed. And at the end, the soldier would take K: Well, what about the Tall Whites? Because, from what I
the M-16 and poke it into his stomach like that [makes gesture of understand, Charles Hall talks about the Tall Whites being out at
being hit in stomach]. And he said it REALLY hurt. And at each Indian Wells, that area? Do you know anything about that?
different phase of the clearance, the soldier would take the M-16
and poke it into his solar plexus. J: No.
And so, in the tapes that Lane Keck did, when we were trying to K: Bob ever talk about the Tall Whites?
get the information out, you know... They told him a lot of really
interesting stuff, and when we would get to, you know, what’s
going to happen in the future, you know, he’d say: I’m not J: Uh-uh. No. Only the Grays, and he only had the three times.
supposed to talk about that. And then Lane would try to work The once was with the pine-smelling fluid. And the once was
around it with some subtlety. And Bob would say: No I can’t. It seeing them in the room. And then once when George Knapp
hurts. hired Tavernetti to come up and do the lie-detector test.
K: Oh my. Wow. Like a programming thing. George rented a room at Caesar’s Palace and Bob and Gene Huff
got there early and they knew the room. And so they pull the door
open. Gene pulled the door open. Bob looked inside and he
J: Right. turned white and nearly fainted, and he walked over and sat down
in a chair. And Gene says: What in the heck is the matter with
K: So, did he ever do the ring? The ring trick? you? And Bob said: I just had a flash-back. He said: I remember
talking with the Gray.
J: No, because he had already done it. He said they had already
drugged him. And what had happened is, when they opened the door, the way
that Tavernetti had set up... There wasn’t very much light. It was
K: But he had to keep going to work, so ... one single table, with a chair on one side and a chair on the other
side, and some equipment there. It triggered this reaction of Bob
when he was reading the briefings and the Gray was across from
J: See, the reason he quit was because when we got caught... You him.
know, he’d invite us up to see the flying saucer flights. On March
21st, 1989 - and I have that tape right here and I’ll show you; it’s
only 9 minutes long - we took that Celestron 8 [points to And it was such an over-whelming experience of when you first,
telescope] and we saw... You know, he told us when it was going you know, are in the presence of a Gray, when, you know, you’re
to fly. And me and Gene are right there. And I focused in on it used to asking a question [gestures words coming out of mouth],
and I saw a flying saucer, you know? And it was, you know, and then having somebody respond. But when you’re talking to
an alien, they pick it up from your mind, and they’re answering
57
before you can even get out of your mouth... and it gets J: Yeah, but I’m not going to say.
confusing. And it was just an almost overwhelming experience.
So, that was the other time that Bob had the... K: [laughing] OK. That’s great. Have you ever taken the train?
K: Now, do you think he’ll go on camera with this stuff? J: [laughing] Nah.
J: I doubt it. But, you know, you never know what he’s going to K: You know where it is, you know ...
do. Never know what he’s going to do. [Kerry laughs]
J: I’ve been meaning to go down there, you know. But I try to
[John begins going through papers] So let me look through here. stay out of trouble! [picks up magazine] Here’s the Los Alamos
[Holds page up] This is the page where we were trying to think of Monitor that Dr. Teller was reading when Bob was... [shows
the guy he worked with – Castroloni [sp?]. But I think we finally photo of Bob with jet-car]
determined what the guy’s name was. And George Knapp has it,
but I don’t know what...
K: OK. Yeah. Great stuff.
K: So is George Knapp working for the Agency?
J: Yeah, I’ve a friend, Jim Goodall, and he said: I’m coming
down there. We’re going to go up to the test site.
J: No. George Knapp works for Channel 8. Oh, you mean under
cover?
And I said: You know, I used to do that stuff, but I’m still alive,
so, you know, if it’s all the same to you, I don’t want to do it.
K: Yeah.
[shows another paper] Here’s three things that I wrote down that
J: You know, I don’t know. George knows a lot of stuff. And he were important. I came up with the speed of time. And Bob
had me on a couple months ago. And what he was doing was a said... You know, I told him what it was. And he said: That’s
story on Sandia. Sandia’s the most secret – not the most secret – correct. But he said: Who cares?
it’s THE secret base here that replaced Groom Lake Area 51.
And it’s out on the Paiute Mesa... and I’ve got a map of it here.
[pointing to list] And what I said was: The speed of time is
directly proportional to the amplitude of the gravitational flux. In
They started building it in 1980 and finished it in 1987, so it’s other words, the speed of time is dependent on gravity.
now 20 years old. About, you know, four or five thousand people
work out there. I mean, it’s a HUGE underground base,
absolutely enormous. I mean, there’s great big cylinders of Then Bob told me: [pointing to items on list]
offices and stuff that go, you know, a mile deep. And then out on
the test site, there’s a couple of runways with all new hangars • It’s theorized that there is one black hole for every galaxy.
there and everything. It’s just a MASSIVE operation. • It’s theorized that every black hole has its OWN galaxy.
• HIV - the protein coat is on the virus itself. And
So when George went up there to film it, he couldn’t find it. But • The recycle time of the gravity amplifier is 10 milliseconds.
anyway I’ll show you... As a matter of fact I have it here on
DVD. I’ll show you the exact thing that we did. Now, the HIV - have we talked about HIV?
I told him that one of the interesting things was... How do we get K: No, but we can definitely go there.
the people out there? They can’t DRIVE out there because it’s
too far, can’t have that many people on Highway 95 because
we’ll be exposing that stuff. We can’t put them on 737s because J: AIDS was invented by a Navy surgeon named R. M. Donner.
they’re already full now, you know, and we can’t put on more And when Bob read the briefing up at S-4, one of the things that
airplanes going out there. impressed him is that in the paper... All the briefings he read
were, you know, 50 to 100 pages, with a blue cover. And they
were scattered on this table. And he could take each one. And
So what they did is, they built a high-speed train that goes from what it was, was that as he progressed his clearance, these
Sandia down to Vegas. And what they did is they put the stops briefings – [lifts top portion of a stack of papers] - Say this is one
under two of the major hotels. [laughs] So the guys just look like briefing. It would be stapled here. And as his clearance
gamblers or, you know, hotel guests walking in there. And they progressed, you know, they would unstaple a few more pages.
go in there, they open a door, use a card key, and go down, you
know, to the thing.
But anyway, on the briefing of AIDS... and I have it; it’s
probably in here, because I wrote a whole thing on what he told
K: Oh... OK [laughs] us. It was developed, you know, to get rid of a certain segment
of... number of humans.
J: I mean, it’s great how they do that.
But it was developed by R. M. Donner. And it has the exact cure
K: Which hotels? Do you know? for AIDS. And it has to do with the cucumber Trichosanthes
kirilowii, which is only grown in China. We tried to get it out of
China, on three attempts. But - however they know, somebody
58
knows - and each one had been cooked, either by a microwave or of course what I’d forgotten is, on this particular flight going to
something as it passed through customs. So it’s impossible to get Albuquerque, that’s all the Sandia and other guys that go on this
it out. But I’ll read you the exact cure and how it works. flight. So when the flight attendant went: Would Bob Lazar
please ring his call button? - of course the whole airplane,
K: Well, we have a contact right now who says he worked on that everybody starts laughing, ‘cause they think it’s a joke!
- on engineering the AIDS virus - in Africa.
[laughing]
J: Possible. But it wasn’t in Africa. It was here. It was released in
Africa. But it was built up at S-4. K: [laughing] That’s great!
So Bob and I looked for R. M. Donner. We found him. He lived J: So anyway, he rang his call button, I realized he was there, so I
in Santa Fe. He was retired. And we went to see him several got on the jump-seat and went to Albuquerque. We rented a car,
times, because Bob then had the contract for the repairing the drove up to Los Alamos. And for some reason, this day,
Alpha probes. everything went perfect. I mean we just slid through that thing in
about 8 hours. And so we realized that we could drive back, get
And what we used to do is, we used to DRIVE to Los Alamos on the airplane, and have dinner at our favorite Italian restaurant
from here. It was a 16-hour drive. And Bob had a friend there. called Parma’s. So we pack all this stuff up and write the P.O.
And it used to take us like 24 hours to rebuild all these Alpha and we go tearing down the mountain from Los Alamos to
probes. There was like 300 of them. And we’d clean them all up Albuquerque and down the freeway.
and then rewire them and then put the aluminum tape on them.
And then we’d drive back to Las Vegas. We screech into the rent-a-car place, jump right on the van that’s
just pulling out, get to the airport. Bob runs up, you know, and
K: What’s an Alpha probe? gives his ticket. I run up, and sign my, you know, my jump-seat.
Run in. They close the door. I sit down. And I heard the captain
say: Welcome to Southwest Airlines 304 on our flight today to
J: They scan for radiation on the people that go in and work at Los Angeles. And I realized that I had run down the wrong
Los Alamos. gangway and got on the wrong airplane. [Kerry laughing]
K: OK. So meanwhile, Bob is on the airplane waiting for me and he sees

them shut the door. And he can’t figure out where I went. So all
J: Bob had the contract. So we did that about every 6 weeks. So the way to Las Vegas, you know, he says: Well maybe he got into
what we’d do is, we’d try to... We knew where Donner worked, the cockpit and I didn’t see ‘im. So they get to Las Vegas. (And,
and we’d go there; we missed him every time. And then we you know, it takes much longer to get to Los Angeles, so I
finally got his home address and we went to his home. And we couldn’t call him.) And he gets to Las Vegas and he goes up into
could never catch him home. Now whether he was not answering the cockpit and I’m not there. And he cannot understand how we
the door, or whether he was not really there, or whether we didn’t could have been so close and I didn’t get on the airplane.
really have an address – I think we did – we never met up with
him. So he’s driving home about the time I get to Los Angeles and get
my cell phone.
Now, when Bob started to make some money on the photo
business and the Alpha probes, we actually went on the airline to I said: Bob?
go to Albuquerque, and we’d rent a car to go up to Los Alamos.
So this one day – and the same things happened on this one day.
And I told this in the John Lear stories. I’m going to tell this on He says: Where in the hell are you?
myself.
And I said: Well, I accidentally got on the wrong airplane.
I have trouble recognizing Earth people. For some reason, I just
can’t, you know, if I haven’t known them for 25 years – and even I’m in Los Angeles.
if I DO know them for 25 years – it’s hard for me to pick them
out of a crowd. So, that was the big laugh for about five years, that John Lear
gets on the wrong airplane. [Kerry and John laughing]
So what we would do is, to go to Albuquerque, Bob would buy a
ticket on Southwest and I’d jump-seat with my airline ID. So one The information that Bob got up at S-4 was [reading from a
morning we get ready to go. We’re leaving at 7 o’clock. And I go paper]:
to the airport, and I don’t want to get on the airplane unless he’s
on it. And I walked up and down all the passengers and looked
very carefully. I couldn’t find Bob! So I didn’t want to get on if AIDS was a virus that is protected by the
he wasn’t there. And I couldn’t reach him at home. protein coat on the RNA preventing the
antibodies, the T-4 cells, of the immune
system from detecting and eliminating it.
So when everybody got on, I asked the flight attendant, I said: The alleged cure for AIDS lies in the
Hey, I’m the jump-seat, but I want to be sure a friend of mine... excrement of the white fungus that’s grown
Could you announce, ask Bob Lazar to ring his call button? Well
59
from the Chinese cucumber Trichosanthes an old turboprop airplane to be sure everything went fine and
kirilowii. there were going to be no problems.
This excrement, which develops after about
two or three weeks, is separated with And for some reason it got shot down on its way out. And it got
hydrazine sulphate in an acidification shot down over Russia, about 40 miles south of Yerevan, which
process which dissolves the protein coat on was well inside Russia. And the Mossad couldn’t figure out how
the RNA and exposes the nucleus of the the pilots got off course. They were on their way out. They had
virus that’s detected by the antibodies in dropped the load, you know, already dumped the arms and
the immune system. ammunition off.
Regardless of how weak the immune system
is, the virus will be destroyed. No more And they finally figured out that what must have happened is the
than 20cc dose per 36-hour period should pilots were intercepted by the Russian MIGs who knew what was
be administered. No antibiotics should be going on and didn’t like it. And the pilots thought: Well, you
used during this period. The 20ccs are know, might as well follow them because we’ve got nothing on
metabolized in 36 hours, having dissolved board, they can’t prove anything. And then as soon as they got
the protein coat on the virus. them over Russia, just shot their ass down, which was a message
to Mossad: Hey, we don’t want this to go on.
And I mention here that over the last 20
years I have been party to several attempts
to get samples of the Trichosanthes So that big sheaf of papers was the history behind the “October
kirilowii out of China, but all have met with Surprise.” There were two books. Gary Sick and Barbara
failure, the last samples having been Honegger each wrote books about it. Congress went as far as to
cooked during departure procedures. actually launch an official investigation in 1990, but it was all
covered up because, you know, nobody wanted to go back that
far or hear any more stories about that thing. But the hostages did
Now, the “October Surprise.” In 1980, when Reagan and Bush spend - let’s see - October, November, December - an extra four
were running against Carter and Mondale, as you know, the months there.
hostages were still in Iran, in Teheran. And then Bush took an
airplane to Paris to meet – not with Khomeini, but with a
representative of Khomeini. And the deal was, if the Khomeini K: So Reagan could be elected.
would delay the release of the hostages until Reagan’s
inauguration, that the Reagan-Bush administration would supply J: Right.
him - the Iranian regime - unlimited guns and ammunition
throughout their administration, which would go from 1980 to K: Incredible stuff.
1988.
J: A lot of people know this story. Well, it’s been, what? 30
My part in that was to deliver those guns and ammunition from years? And pretty much everybody has forgotten it. The only
Tel Aviv to Teheran. The reason I brought this up is that big reason I brought it up is because I’m putting that history there,
sheaf of papers over there is the details of who was flying and who the pilots were ...
how they pulled the whole thing off.
K: Do you know anything about the Minot... the recent incident
The way they pulled if off is, Bush left Saturday night on a BAC with the Air Force Base and the weapons that were... the nuclear
111 jet which only takes about 6 or 7 hours to get there. He only warheads that were...
spent about 4 or 5 hours in the meeting. And then he was flown
back in an SR71 from a base in France to McGuire Air Force
Base. And it only took an hour and 14 minutes. That way, he was J: That smells to high heaven. I found that on ATS. It was very,
able to show up for a tennis appointment that he had on Sunday, very thorough. It was one of my favorite threads. It went on
and that the press would have not known of the lapse in time or forever. And we had some guys at ATS that really knew what
the trip. they were talking about. And that was EXTREMELY interesting.
It had to be Cheney. It couldn’t have been anybody else that
authorized it. And it was one of the most double-dealing
And as it turned out, they were elected and they supplied these instances I’ve ever seen.
guns and ammunition. And that was, you know, part of the “Iran
Contra,” but Congress never went back farther than 1985 to find
out when it originally started. K: What would you say it was a set-up for, though? Why’d they
do it?
And when I moved to Egypt in 1981, that was going to be my
job, was to take those arms and ammunition from Tel Aviv to J: You know, that’s the question. Why did they? They have
Teheran. They were coming into Tel Aviv from Zaragosa, our nuclear weapons already in Europe. Why’d they need to steal
Air Force base in Spain. And Mossad was handling the whole them, you know?
thing.
K: Right. And why’d they need to fly them from North Dakota or
I never did fly a flight. And the reason was, the first airplane in wherever it was, South Dakota, across the United States? I mean,
was an Argentinean CL44. And what they wanted to do was use what was the point?
60
J: It’s crazy. There IS no point. Well, there is a point, but I don’t The sun is an electromagnetic sphere. It’s not a nuclear reactor.
know what it is. But that episode is extremely interesting. I’d And it doesn’t radiate heat as such. It radiates electromagnetism
sure... You know, one day we’ll find out and, you know, we’ll and each planet has its own filtering system. And so the filtering
say: Ohhh, that’s what it was all about. I don’t know, but that system around each planet determines what the temperature is. So
was really... It’s My’-not. temperature on Venus is much like Earth. So it is on Mars. So it
is on Pluto. The same on Mercury. There are people just like us
K: Yeah. Meh-no’, North Dakota. on every single one of the planets.
J: That’s the French pronunciation. We Americans call it My’- The planets that you hear about as being gas giants, like Saturn
not. [laughing] I’m kidding you. and Neptune... There’s only ONE gas giant in our solar system,
and that’s NASA. [Kerry laughs] That’s the only gas giant we
have. All the rest of the planets, people live on and ...
K: I see. OK. So where are going next, John? What do you have?
K: So what do you think? They’re being shrouded? You think
J: I don’t know. While we’re thinking about where we’re going there’s...
next [picks up a book] I just ordered this book. Somebody, it just
accidentally came up there. It’s called The Gravitational Force
of the Sun by Pari Spolter. It was written in 1993. And basically J: We’re being suppressed. The information is being suppressed.
what it says here... [reading]: This book is a serious challenge to We’re not allowed to know about any of that. The people that
Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation as presently formulated. Hoagland talks about have taken over. And they consider space
personally theirs. And they don’t want to share it with any of us.
They have technology that we wouldn’t have to pay for gas or
And I’m just, you know, this far [shows small number of pages] electricity right this single minute.
in it. And basically why that interests me is because Newton DID
have some ideas about the Moon, along with, you know,
throughout history, about 36 other people who thought there was K: Right.
gravity on the Moon, there was atmosphere, and there was people
up there. But each one, you know... The information got gently J: But they don’t want to share it with us. It’s only for the elite,
suppressed. and we’re not included there. We can go to war, you know, and
be subjects for weapons and tests and stuff like that, but we are
K: Well, we have bases up there. That’s really what ... not going to share in that technology. But out there there’s a
fantastic universe, fantastic set of planets. It’s really interesting
out there.
J: NO question about that. We have bases on Mars. You know,
the Secret Astronaut Corps has visited every planet, or most of
the planets. B [off camera]: John, I would like to ask you a few questions,
basically on behalf of the people who are watching this video.
We’re asking these questions on their behalf. First of all, I want
K: Every planet? to say that our source, Henry Deacon, told me personally - I don’t
think this is on our site, because for me it felt outlandish - He said
J: And much farther than that. We’ve been to other solar systems. that there’s life on every planet in the solar system. He looked me
People, when we talk about other planets, say: Well, it’s too hot in the eye and he said: You may well not believe this, but I
on Venus. No. That’s bullshit. promise you it’s true. [John laughs]
He said that Venus is not as hot as they want you to believe. He

said the sun doesn’t work the way that they teach you in school.
He said a whole bunch of stuff that corroborates what you’re
saying.
Now, he was on the inside. He’s worked in deep black projects

all over the place in a number of establishments. And so his
source comes from briefing documents, conversations with other
physicists, and so forth and so on.
Where do you get your information from here? Because this is so

extraordinary and way off the end of the spectrum, that people
need to know how you figured this out, or who has told you this,
or what your sources are.
J: Specifically the sun, that came from a document in the Branton

Files.
K: OK. So have you ever met Branton?
61
J: No, but we used to talk a lot. I’m not sure I ever met him face B: And that guy was Thomas Castello. Is that correct?
to face. But his name was... what? His real name?
J: Thomas Castello. So Mr. X had met Thomas Castello and was
K: I forget his real name. very good friends with him. And when he escaped, he made six
of these boxes. And what he did is, he gave a box to each one of
J: I think it’s Dave something. But anyway, we used to be real his friends. And Mr. X was one of them. And Mr. X took me
close and then he got sick for a while and I don’t know what he down to Dolan Springs where he hid his box on the top of a
does. But his information is SO interesting. And I have no reason mountain. Now, I didn’t go to the top of the mountain or see
to believe that most of it’s not true. Have you read the Branton exactly where it was. But he showed me, you know, where it was
Files? generally.
K: Oh yeah. Absolutely. So we get back and I talk to Mr. X over a period of three or four
months. And eventually he shows me some pencil drawings that
he drew from the original photographs. Those became the
J: They’re lengthy. I have a three-inch binder, that I had them infamous “Dulce Papers.” And I have the originals right here that
printed out. I drew from those pencil drawings. And so I drew them.
K: I mean, he’s the one who really publicized the Dulce Base K: And what are they drawings of?
information big time in those files. And you’re familiar with all
of that, right?
J: Of the interior of Dulce
J: The whole Dulce story started in 1987 when me, Linda Howe,
Tom Adams, and several others met in Crestone, Colorado, to K: I see. Well, I don’t know if we’ve seen them or not. But can
discuss the state of UFOs. And during that meeting - it was about we get those on camera?
3 or 4 days - Tom Adams walked over to me and handed me a
note. - [Gestures at piles of papers on desk] It’ll turn up J: Yeah.
eventually, but I don’t have it right now – And the note was from
him, who I call “Mr. X,” in Henderson, Nevada, and told him K: OK. Do they contain any pictures of aliens?
about that he had a friend that worked at an underground base in
New Mexico... that the walls, the halls, went on forever, tiled
walls, and a little bit of this stuff. And Tom handed it to me. He J: No. They just show the lab, with all the hookups of the bags
says: John, I don’t have time to go out there, research this. and everything.
Would you look into it? And I said: Sure.
B: Are these the drawings that were published in Matrix Two?
So when I got back... And before I got back, me and Linda Howe Matrix One?
went in my truck all throughout New Mexico. We stopped and
talked to Ernie Edwards who was the, you know, the key figure J: Right. Matrix One. And the way that Matrix happened is, when
in the Bennewitz deal. I kept getting into all this, a guy kept knocking on the door –
John Grace – and: Hey, I’d like to talk to you. And that was at the
And then, she and I drove down through Corona to see Clifford time that I was having so much trouble with Marilee and I kept
Stone. And she and I took that road that goes from Corona over saying, you know: Don’t come here. I don’t want to talk about it.
to the main highway down to Roswell. And we’re going to find
the Roswell ranch. And we get to the turnoff and there’s 30 dead Finally he came in and we developed a long relationship of
cows there. [Kerry laughs] It was CRAZY. And so... They didn’t collaborating on information. And Matrix One, every page, came
have the classic mutilations, but they were dead. And we talked off that desk [points across the room]. And I wish I had that
to the farmer there and he said: Oh yeah, there’s some kind of a book. My mom passed away and there was one left that she had
virus going around. And I forget what the whole story was, but in mint condition and I gave it to one of my nieces. So I don’t
none of it made any sense. And we went down and interviewed have an original Matrix One. I have an original Matrix Two. And
Clifford Stone. now it’s up to Matrix Five.
Then I eventually drove back to Las Vegas, and met with Mr. X. Anyway, John Grace was a really interesting guy. He did a hell of
And Mr. X started telling me about Dulce, about the guard that a lot of research. He worked for Nellis Air Force Base. And one
had witnessed the atrocities that were going on there, and didn’t day during this period, like late ‘87, he wrote a kind of a “State of
agree with them, and he decided to escape. And he escaped with the Research” - where we were at, as far as what we had found
– allegedly - 7 minutes of video tape that showed the hallway, 25 out. And he wrote it. He wanted to get it out, but he didn’t want
black and white photos, and a hundred pages of information. to use his name. So he wanted to suggest a name and I said: Why
don’t you call it Krill? K-R-I-L-L (because the Pentagon dealt
K: Now, we’re told this is buried on top of a mountain and is with an alien back in ’84 called C-R-L-L-L.)
inaccessible.
So he said OK and he came up with, out of the blue, the initials
J: I’ll get to that. So... O.H. and it became the “O.H. Krill Papers.” And we weren’t
trying to shy anybody on. We weren’t trying to put any false
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information out. It was just what we thought the state of the art K: Do we have any idea which aliens are protecting us? Or do
was then. And John wanted to know and we made up that name. you?
So, later it became a full-fledged disaster because Bill Cooper J: Probably the Grays. The Grays are responsible for what we call
started coming up then. And Bill Cooper and I did several video the physical body, which Bob read up at the test site are the
interviews. And one of them was PM Magazine in Salt Lake “containers.” They referred to it as containers. That’s their job.
City. And during that interview they asked about “The Krill They see that everything goes OK. And the container contains the
Papers,” and Bill Cooper said he’d seen them in the Navy 20 souls. The Grays can change souls from body to body, but their
years prior! When, you know, John Grace and I had dreamed responsibility is not the soul. That’s somebody else. And I don’t
them up like two months prior to that. [Kerry laughs] know who that person is. The Grays are just here responsible for
the “containers.” That’s why there would never - unless it was
And the other thing was, there was a paragraph out then talking under extremely unusual circumstances - would a meteor ever hit
about the Excalibur weapon. And the Excalibur weapon was a the Earth. There will be no catastrophe like that.
weapon that the military were developing that would penetrate
1,000 feet of soil. And Bob Lazar had written that, like two Let’s keep that thought and I’m going to have something to eat
months prior. And Bill Cooper had said he’d seen that in the here...
Navy 20 years prior!
Part 3
So I took Bill Cooper out of the room and said: What in the hell
are you talking about? John Grace and I wrote that Krill paper John Lear: You know, he was going nuts then because they were
and Bob Lazar wrote the Excalibur. He said: Well that may be, shooting his tires out. He came here the night... the day they shot
but I saw them in the Navy. his tires out, or the one tire out. And, you know, he came here
and said: John, I’m going to turn myself in. And I said: Bob,
So that’s when Bill Cooper and I started to split because I there’s nobody to turn yourself in TO. Now stop it! You know?
couldn’t understand why he was saying stuff like that. And then it
became known as “UFO disease.” And UFO disease is where you
get so popular in the UFO field and you don’t have anything new
to say, you make it up.
Start of interview
K: OK. Well, let me ask you something, because as far as I know,
the Matrix books are written by Val Valerian, who is John Grace, J: Now [holding papers] these are the original Dulce papers. They
right? were written in pencil by Mr. X, who lives in Henderson. And the
reason he wrote them down was so that I could distribute them.
J: That’s John Grace. Right.
And there’s a page of information. And then there’s the drawings
here that you can see are of the lab, and the vats with the human
K: So Matrix Five talks about Planet X, I’m told. I’ve got Matrix
meat in it. And [pointing to a page] the test tubes with growing
Five and I don’t remember seeing Planet X referred to in there.
humans and different... [pointing] This is the womb with the
But, you know basically I was just told that it reminded, I guess,
different humans. [turning page] And the different vats. And
that it talks about Planet X. I mean, it certainly talks about
the...
everything in there. But, you say Planet X is a complete fallacy.
So, are you still in touch with John Grace? Do you know why he
says it’s true? Kerry Cassidy: Where did these papers, the drawings, come
from?
J: No, I don’t know. John Grace... You know, I ordered Matrix
Five and I read the first 30 pages and I couldn’t get any further. J: Mr. X copied them from the photographs that Thomas Castello
So... There may be a Planet X. There may be a Nibiru. But it’s gave to him to hide.
not going to destroy Earth in 2012.
K: Okay.
K: OK. What about meteors? You know, aimed at this planet,
that are heading in. J: Mr. X got ONE of the boxes. One of the boxes was hidden in
the mountains near Dolan Springs, which is southeast of here on
J: We’ll be protected. You don’t have to worry about meteors. your way to Kingman. So the deal was, they were af...
K: And how, by what? Oh, and then I took these, [shuffles through papers on desk] and
what I did was, typed it up and made new black and white
drawings from the pencil drawings, ’cause you couldn’t see the
J: The guys who take care of us.
pencil drawings very clearly.
K: Which is...? Are you talking aliens? Are you talking HAARP?
[pointing to drawing] So, you see you have the vat here and the
little thing that comes down. It says: Seems to keep water
J: Yeah. Aliens. vibrated. It was an amber liquid. And it gives the approximate
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dimensions. It says: Looks like large pieces of pale meat in So, this all happened in 1987. And I think 1993 or ’94 was when
cloudy water - submerged, not floating. Castello missed his connections. In other words, he missed the
contact at the first 4 months and the second at 8 months. So it
[turning pages] Each one of these is a description of one of the was decided to go and get the box.
photos that Castello gave Mr. X. Here’s a picture of the cameras
on the doorway to [points to words] scores of tanks or more. I didn’t go myself, but I believe Bill Hamilton did. I think he was
[turns page] And this is... one of them. And I think Tal was another one, but I’m not sure, I
don’t remember. It’s been, you know, almost 20 years ago. But I
K: Now I forget. What happened to Thomas Castello? do remember that it was a serious effort, that they made at least 6
expeditions in to find this box and it was never found.
J: I’m going to tell you. So [close-up of drawing] here’s a picture
of... These “wombs” are hooked into machines. [reading] Wombs Bill Ryan [off camera]: You said it was buried at the top of the
submerged in sort of yellow liquid, looks thicker than water. And mountain? Is that correct?
these humans are growing there. [pointing to words] Creatures
float in amber-colored water. Womb is grayish globs of yellow- J: It wasn’t at the top. I don’t think it was at the top. It was hidden
white in grooves. Dozens of creatures in each womb. Can’t count about half way up.
the tanks - maybe scores or hundreds.
K: We heard there was like a spell or black magic, you know,
[points to drawing]These wombs were 2 feet vertically and 3 to 4 some kind of spell cast on that whole area around the box.
feet horizontally. These creatures... if you take them out of this
womb... Here’s what it would look like if they placed them in J: Could have been. I do know that there is nothing secret that
your hands. [reading] They have three fingers, two toes. They’re any of us do. We’re always on film or video or some kind of
not human. The color is wrong. Looks blue-gray. They have a camera, have been for 40 years. There’s absolutely nothing we
very thin skin and they’re about 6 inches high. can hide. Nothing we think or say or do is secret.
[close-up of drawing]. These are what the test tubes look like. K: Meaning you guys are surveilled because you were involved?
The room light was pink/purple, bright in some areas. Hundreds
of these various stages of growth. In other words these tubes,
these things that grow in here, are in various stages of growth. J: No. Everybody. Every person on the face of the Earth.
Wispy hair, not quite a nose. The mouth looks sealed. The womb K: [laughs] Oh. Right!
looks gray. Veins look dark gray. Creature white, pale eyes, dark
lids. Can’t find a gender. Two toes, three fingers. Liquid amber J: There’s nothing that anybody does that’s secret. And the
color, not completely clear. Looks like the glass tube is about 5- Navy... In some of the stuff that Linda Howe came out with...
foot high.
As a matter of fact I had a chance to talk with her the other day.
Then, [turning pages] this is various information. We don’t know She had found some papers in her garage that looked pretty
what that is, but that was in the papers. technical and she said she had got them in the late ’80s, but she
had never read them.
So Castello made 5 or 6 of these, waterproof, wrapped in plastic,
containers. And they had [reading]: 25 black and white photos, And so now that she had taken the time to read them, she thought
video tape with no dialogue, and a set of papers that included they had a lot of value... and were they mine? And I said, No,
technical information of the alleged jointly-occupied US/alien they don’t sound like mine. And she said, Okay. Well I’m going to
facility, one kilometer beneath the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, post them. So she posted them on her website. And somebody on
New Mexico. Several persons were given the above package to ATS says: Hey man, ya got to look at this. Or maybe not on ATS.
hold for safekeeping. Most of those given the package were I think it was gone by then. It was somebody, like on Open
shown what the package contained, but were not technically Minds.
oriented, or knew very little about what they were looking at.
And I said, Okay, I’ll take a look. So I went over there. And it
So Mr. X was given one, hid it, and the deal was... Thomas was was... You know, you have to pay dues. Or, you know, you have
on the run. And Dulce or any of those operations send out bounty to pay a fee to get on her stuff. So I couldn’t get in.
hunters. And these are like bikers or stuff, that could go find
somebody for money. And they’re very serious about their K: Right.
occupation, and usually it doesn’t take very long to go get
somebody.
J: So I wrote her and I said: Linda, I’m a little short at this time.
[Kerry laughing] Can you let me look at them? And I never heard
But anyway, Thomas told Mr. X: I’m going to be here every 4 from her. So I got somebody to download it and I read it all. And
months, just to show you that I’m alive. Or I’ll be in contact. If I all it was was stuff that me and Tal and everybody else in the
miss TWO four-month contacts, or 8 months - two in a row - then industry... Somebody had taken all that and put it together like it
you can release these papers. was one big, you know, document.
64
K: Oh. Okay. class. And guards - our guards, the Delta Force - were advised
they were not allowed to go into a classroom with a Gray, or
J: All of our stuff. And there’s some hidden phrases. The one that approach a Gray, or be anywhere near a Gray, with a firearm of
I remember specifically was talking about a former Attorney any sort.
General in Nevada named Brian, and I forget what his first name
was. His last name was Brian, and it was spelled B-R-I-A-N. And And so, for whatever reason, this security guard walked into this
his real name is BRYAN. instructional class with a weapon and the Gray killed him
instantly. I mean there was no warning, no nothing, just killed
For some odd reason I have the capacity to recall stuff that him instantly.
happened, you know, 50 years ago – exactly. And I don’t know
what it is, you know? But I can recall stuff I read; stuff, you K: Oh wow.
know... people I talked to. Anything to do with this. [touching
papers on his desk] It’s instant. And I don’t know about how it J: And so the Delta Force who were watching it on the monitor
works, because there’s a lot of other stuff I don’t remember. went in force to get, you know... to take revenge on something
they had witnessed. And when it was all said and done, there was
K: Wow. 66 people killed and it included all the scientists and all the Delta
Force. Now...
J: But stuff like... Reading... I can take that document and read
right through it and say No, I know who wrote each one of these. B: By the one Gray?
You know? And recall that. So...
J: By the one Gray. So I had heard this story. And when Bob was
K: That’s great. at S-4, he read the identical story. He heard the word Dulce. The
only difference between the document - the briefing he read on
J: The document that she had was not secret at all. the massacre - was that it occurred at Area 51. And the only
possible explanation that I have for that is, his clearance hadn’t
advanced high enough for him to know about Dulce. Because it
K: So the box was never found? What about the other 6 boxes? didn’t happen at Area 51. It happened at Dulce. But he did read
the whole description, and he talks about that.
J: Each one was given to a friend and none of them was found.
Maybe we’ll have time... There’s a videotape over there [points
K: Okay. across the room] called The Bob Chronicles and very few people
have seen it. And what it was, was when Bob decided not to go
J: So that’s pretty much the end of the Dulce story. It comes up back to work at the test site and he was, you know... He was
every once in a while. going nuts then, because they were shooting his tires out. He
came here the night... the day they shot his tires out – or the one
tire out.
K: What about Mark Richards? Have you ever heard of him?
He’s the guy... Well, he’s a guy who said he was a security guard,
who is in prison right now for another, you know... it was like a And... you know, he came here. He said: John, I’m going to turn
set-up. He says he was set up for murder. His wife, Joanne, I myself in. I said: Bob, there’s nobody to turn yourself in TO! Now
guess is out... stop it! [John and Kerry laughing] You know? And so he slept on
the couch that night and um... I lost my train of thought there. He
slept on the couch... What was I talking about?
J: Total, total unadulterated bullshit!
B: Before that you were talking about his having seen these
K: Really? documents but he wasn’t cleared to know about Dulce. But he
was told about the firefight.
J: And that’s from three of us who have researched that story
backwards, forwards, upside down. That’s The Dark of the Moon, J: Right.
or something like that. I mean, it was crazy. When I started to
read that... I actually paid for it! I sent... you know, actually paid
real money for that story. And, you know, because he says he K: But you were saying this tape... the tape that he recorded...
was a test pilot for my father back in the late ’40s. And that
would have fit because, you know, he did use test pilots back J: Oh, the tape - The Bob Chronicles. So anyway, right after that
then. George Knapp went in and did an hour of interview over at his
house to get everything on tape that he could possibly tell us, so
And some of it sounded pretty interesting. But then, when I read that if they did kill him, then that at least we’d have that.
the attack on Dulce and, you know, the attack... The Dulce story,
the fight, what we call the “Dulce war,” was not a war at all. K: Oh.
What happened is they were in the ... This is like in the late ’70s, J: And that was before we had made, you know, the Lazar tape.
I think it was. ’79. The Gray - one Gray - was giving a class to The Lazar tape, you know, took three or four months to do, you
about 40 US scientists. And it was at Dulce. And it was just a know. And then that was a professional one. But what George
65
wanted to do was get the meat of the information right now so J: That guy specifically... he was the insider. When I talk about
that we had a.... an insider, this guy was on the inside, and he said... You know,
he told me stuff I hadn’t heard before. For instance, I’d always
K: So you’re saying you have that? heard that we’d been to the Moon earlier than 1969. He said:
Yeah, we were there in ’62; to Mars in ’66.
J: Yeah, it’s right there [pointing across the room]. I gave it to
Ron, um.... K: Wow!
K: Garner? J: He was the one that told me about the fourth astronaut being
killed in Apollo 1, because he was there two hours later. And
they sent him specifically. He didn’t say why they called for him
J: Garner... the other day, to put it on DVD. or what he did. But he said that instantaneously as the fire was
going out, NSA, who controls everything there – it’s not NASA;
K: Did you? it’s the National Security Agency - they locked down the whole
area.
J: [nodding] Mm hm.
Nobody moved while they went in there - NSA guys - and
K: So, are you going to try to sell it? removed that body. They had to, you know, take Grissom and
Chaffee and White and get that guy. ’Cause where he was sitting
was down by the environmental control unit. And I’ll show you
J: I don’t think so. I told ’im... No, it’s... We tried to get it... I what the Apollo module looks like... because when you first start
talked to George about it and he said no, technically it belongs to talking about a fourth guy, it’s: Oh there’s no room, I’ve seen it
Channel 8. So he can’t do anything with it. So I said, Okay. I just in a museum.
show it to friends, you know, to say that...
Well, there’s plenty of room down there because that’s where
K: Yeah, we’d love to see it! they stored the Moon rocks... were going to store the Moon
rocks. And the guy would stick his feet there and lay his head up
J: Sure. on the instrument panel. And the astronauts would be laying this
way [motioning behind and over his head] and he’d be laying that
way [pointing towards his feet].
K: That’d be great.
And what it was, was there was always a fourth guy there to help
J: So in a few minutes here we’ll take a little break and I’ll show
them sort out their problems. Now, that particular day, Joe Shea
that.
was supposed to be there and for some reason Joe couldn’t be
there. And so this astronaut, whoever he was, was in there
B: I’d like to ask you how that dovetails into the Phil Schneider helping them sort these problems out.
story about the firefight at Dulce.
And any book over there [pointing] on Apollo that you read, the
J: Well, you know, Phil’s a great guy. I met him on several official story is that Walt Schirra met with Joe Shea at lunch and
occasions. It’s a great story. I think there’s aspects of Phil said: You know, why don’t you hook up an extra fourth headset in
Schneider’s story that are true, but I don’t think the Dulce is. And there and send somebody else in to go help them sort out their
I don’t think that he was in the Dulce firefight. Because problems?
everybody got killed there.
And Joe Shea allegedly said: Yeah. I think we’ll try that out. And
K: Well isn’t it possible there’s more than one? then each book goes on to say it was too difficult to do; that they
woulda had to hang wires out the hatch, and they had to seal the
J: Firefights? hatch - so they couldn’t do it. And all that, of course, is bullshit.
They had everything wired for a fourth astronaut in there just for
that specific purpose, to help them sort through the problems.
K: Yeah.
Now you know Clark McClelland?

J: Possible. But Bob only read one. And the guys that I’ve talked
to... A few minutes ago we were talking about the insiders that I
had met. And then the one insider I told you about - that told me B: Clark McClelland, yes.
about building the piece of mining equipment that was so huge
and he doesn’t know how it went to the Moon - he talked about J: Clark McClelland and I have talked of this at length. And, you
Dulce. And he said that he knew it as Section D. And there’s know, to this day it hurts him to talk about it, because it was so
other people that know it as section D and not Dulce. awful. But, you know, we’ve talked about what happened after
that, you know. And his feeling is - he’s the one that told me – he
K: Okay. said it was not a specific KILL, but they let it happen. They let
them die. And this one really hurts Clark.
66
Okay, about a week ago CNN said that a 220-mile by 40 or 50- There’s two military operations there. One is an Army
mile chunk of ice had broken off from Antarctica and that it just ammunition fabrication, where they make different types of
demonstrated how serious global warming was becoming. And it explosives - missiles, that type of stuff. That’s on one side of the
had a video taken by a British crew in a Twin Otter, flying along road. On the other side of the road is a place called NUWC, and
this huge chunk of ice that was cut as straight as an arrow for 40 that stands for the “Naval Undersea Warfare Center.”
miles.
Now, every time I go by there I see that beautiful little sign that
And, this was trying to be sold to us, the public, as something that says “Navy Undersea Warfare Center,” and I realize we’re about
had just broken off, when it was obviously a direct energy as far out in the middle of Nevada as you can possibly get. All
weapon that had made all the square cuts on this. And they’re there is, is sand and mountains as far as you can see. And this
using the weapons that they have - the direct energy weapons - to little teeny lake. It couldn’t possibly be used for undersea warfare
do all kinds of stuff like that. training because it’s not that big.
That one was to cut that piece of ice off so that we would worry So I’ve always wondered... And you can look down in there - and
about global warming. Which... yes, there is global warming, but it kinda slopes down towards the lake - and you see a couple of
we had nothing to do with it. It’s just a natural cycle of Earth that nondescript buildings, but nothing very interesting. So I’ve
is going to go warm up for a while and then it’ll cool off for a always wondered what that place is.
while. There’s nothing we can do about it.
Now over the years, flying for the different airlines that I’ve had,
Other things they have done with that... certainly the Murrah I’ve talked to three different people who have said there’s a
Building in Oklahoma City, was absolutely a direct energy submarine base there.
weapon. No doubt about it. I’m sure that Timothy McVeigh is
alive and well now. He was part of the operation. There’s no way Now, I’ve always, you know, wondered, first of all... Submarines
that they’d let him die. That was a test for the direct energy couldn’t come up in Walker Lake. It just can’t happen. It’s too
weapon, which was pre-assessed for the 911. shallow. There’s no way they could do that. And, besides, there’s
a bottom to that and they couldn’t come out. So these people
And talking about the Atlas 5 mystery launch... Atlas 5 is a have been very knowledgeable who have told me this, and I’ve
missile that we... is one of our current missiles that we use to always wondered what the real deal was.
launch all kinds of things into space. This one was launched 24
hours after Atlantis, the STS-122, was scrubbed at Kennedy So last August I gave a talk at the San Jose UFO Expo West. And
Space Center. Patrick AFB is right next to that; it’s the military my topic was The Civilization on the Moon, when I talked about
Cape Canaveral. the civilization on the Moon. And, after it, a Navy guy came up -
in full dress uniform, young man - and thanked me for my talk.
And somehow they got this thing launched in 24 hours. And I’m
just saying the importance of the story was, something that was And I said: Should you be here?
going to go up in Atlantis HAD to get up there, and there was no
delaying it. So they had to get the range ready and put these
astronauts - I’m sure they were astronauts; it could have been And he said: Oh yeah, no problem.
cargo, but I’m sure it was astronauts - in this Atlas 5 and launch
it. I said: Great! When were you last down in the tubes? Or I said:
Have you been down in the tubes lately?
Now the Atlas 5, of course, has a huge payload on top, and there
could be anything in it. I’ve never seen what’s in it. I assume And he said: Every day.
there’s a little spaceship in it and two or three astronauts get in it.
When Atlas 5 goes up, it opens like that [motioning with hands Now that’s the key question you ask a Navy guy. Because, you
cupped and then opening them], and that little spaceship goes out know, the Navy has an underground tube system that goes all
and can maneuver between all the other space platforms we have. around the world, and it’s very, very fast. You can go anywhere
And then it can come back in and glide in and land. in the world in an hour. And it’s very secret. It’s been operational
since, you know, the ’60s - and everybody knows about it - but
What’s so suspicious about this is they got that thing into the air it’s a big, big secret. And it’s a big Navy secret.
within 24 hours after Atlantis was scrubbed - and the story they
put out with it. And later I’ll show you the headlines of that story I’ve known some really, you know, interesting and top level
which made it so suspicious. Navy guys, and I’ve never found anybody that actually admitted
being down there except this one guy. So when he did that, I said:
One of the things I wanted to tell you about is that I’ve been You know, this guy’s in. He knows it. So I met with him later and
driving between Las Vegas and Reno for maybe 30 years. My he told me a lot interesting things.
folks moved up there in 1968. I moved here in 1974. And about
two-thirds of the way to Reno there’s a nice little town called K: Well, what’s the description of the tubes? When you say “the
Hawthorne, Nevada. There’s a nice little lake there. It’s called tubes,” you’re talking about... like what? A high-speed train?
Walker Lake. It’s about 14 miles long and about 80 feet deep. It’s
a very picturesque little place, huddled up against the mountains.
J: Yeah. It’s a high-speed train. It’s about the diameter of this
room. And they have little cars that you get into and you lay kind
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of prone like this [leaning back in chair], and you pull the hood And what was interesting is... on ATS when I first started talking
down there [simulating by putting hand over his head and down about this [laughing] they called in the big team from the
in front of him]. And WHOOSH! And you’re, you know, Pentagon. [Kerry laughs] And this blowhard Navy guy comes in,
anywhere in the world in an hour. you know, all huffy and huffy, and: I hear somebody wants to
talk about the Thresher and the Scorpion, you know.
K: Wow.
And I let him have it. And of course he’s gone the next day. He
J: I talked to this guy and one of the things I said, you know: Do didn’t realize, you know. He thought he was going to, you know,
you know anything about Hawthorne? [Kerry laughs] intimidate us there. That was really interesting.
And he said: No. He said: Why? Now one of the other things I heard about was a computerized
battleship. It’s called Fleet 21. It exists. They just finished their
sea trials southwest of Coronado. It’s going into full operation
And I said: Well, you know, there’s the Naval Undersea Warfare now.
Center there.
It’s 600 feet long, and just exactly like any other battleship,
[He said]: Oh yeah. I know what you’re talking about. Yeah, he except there’s not one person on it. It’s all computerized. There’s
said. The entrance is in... north of Fort Ord on Monterey Bay. a helicopter landing pad on the back, that if anything goes wrong,
[Kerry laughs] they bring in a team with nine members, and they go down and
they get to the computer room and they fix it, and then take off.
He said that the Pacific Ocean underlies California, Nevada and But what that allows us to do is make total attacks with a
Idaho. And he said [pointing to map of the western US] that’s the battleship with nobody being hurt.
channel that goes from Monterey Bay to Hawthorne, and then
there’s an elevator at Hawthorne that goes down 4300 feet - [Kerry laughs]
because the altitude of Hawthorne is 4300 feet - and the elevator
takes them down to sea level under Hawthorne.
J: The other thing I heard was we have [holding a drawing]
what’s called a Fast Attack Submarine.
And that’s why the Army base is there, is because they make the
ordnance that goes in the submarines. And that’s why you never
see, or nobody’s ever seen, any ordnance-laden trucks come out Now, the stuff that I’m telling you is technically not classified,
of Hawthorne either south or north. They don’t. They go right for this reason: Several years ago it was determined that the
down to the Pacific Ocean where the submarines go in and they minute you classified something, you had to do so much
load up there and they come out here [pointing to California coast paperwork that it became unclassified. Too many people had to
on map]. know about it. So the best to do was not tell anybody about it
except those people that knew about it and not classify it. And
that way you can keep it more secret - if that makes any sense.
And there’s also... Now I know what a friend of mine was...
Scottie Lyon, SEAL Team 6, one of the original SEAL Team
founders. Great guy, passed away now, so now I can tell. He told [showing diagram] This is the nuclear-powered Fast Attack
me there was a secret Navy base in Lake Tahoe. He didn’t tell me Submarine. The interesting thing about this is, I believe it uses
more than that. But now I see what everybody is talking about. fusion instead of fission. It’s only 70 feet long. Imagine a nuclear
There’s underground bases, Naval bases, that - connected by the source that could power that thing within that small a space.
Pacific Ocean - that go all over.
[pointing to side of vessel] This is a 12-man SEAL Team
There‘s some up in Idaho. And who knows? You know, a few Lockout. And this is the submarine. I think there’s about 70 of
months ago on ATS a guy said that his father worked on nuclear them now. That’s the one, I believe, that cut the cables, because
submarines in St. Louis, Missouri. So, you know, and he went they can dive down deep enough, get down there and have their
down there and he saw the lake and everything. So my question 12-man team go out there and do whatever they want with the
was: Did they come up the Mississippi? Or did they come cables. This thing is very highly advanced. It’s 70 feet long, goes
eastbound in the Pacific Ocean to there? So then the question is: 120 knots and has a nine-man crew.
Does it connect with the Atlantic? And it’s very possible it does.
[pointing] The ROV here stands for Remote Operated Vehicles.
Two of the original nuclear submarines that were lost by the They’re tucked in there and there’s three of them. One of them
Navy, as you remember, were the Thresher and the Scorpion. can fly. They can actually go up and fly around and take pictures
And both of them had fantastic stories of, you know, a valve or do whatever you want.
coming apart, or attacking a Soviet submarine, and that kind of
stuff. Now, you look at the 120 knots speed and say: John Lear, now
come on, we know that planing and submerged hulls cannot
But if you go into the Branton Files and read about that story, possibly go that fast. Well, the fact is, now they’ve found, or
those subs were lost exploring this area here [pointing to map of they’ve perfected, solved, “boundary layer control.” And
California to Nevada]. Both of them... the Thresher and the boundary layer control is that portion of the sea that comes in
Scorpion. contact with the ship and creates friction.
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B: So it’s similar to the technology they’ve got on the wings of have ever told anything. Yes, one person did call his Dad. And
the B2 Bomber? that person called Jim Sanders, who wrote The Downing of Flight
TWA 800. But that was the only one who said anything.
J: Yeah.
B: Which missile was it?
B: But applied to water.
J: I don’t know. But it was one that was aimed at a drone. And
J: Submarines. when they launched it, the drone was between TWA 800 and the
submarine. And for some reason, when the missile was launched
it lost - instantaneous, just for an instant - a lock on the drone.
B: I understand. And when it reacquired a lock, it reacquired TWA 800. And
when it went through TWA 800, it went through first class, you
J: And they make the stuff up in space in manufacturing plants. know, knocked the nose off, and caused the center tank, you
When the shuttle comes back and when other airplanes... (I’ll know, to explode.
show you another picture of an airplane here that was seen over
Ireland a couple years ago) ...come back, they’re bringing parts. K: So you’re saying it was an accident.
And they bring it back in sheets, rolls and bars.
J: It was an accident. It was a Navy accident. They were just
And it’s a stuff that’s fantastic, and you can do all kinds of stuff. using it for live-fire exercises.
But what the most important thing you can do... Like on
submarines, it keeps the boundary layer - that layer between the
hull and the sea - about 3 to 5 centimeters away, so there’s K: Right.
absolutely no friction. Nor is there any noise associated with that.
J: And they had done that forever. And that was the fifth airplane
So they use that not only on their new battleships, but on their - civilian airliner - that the Navy had shot down since 1963.
submarines, and on their airplanes. It’s a really, really fantastic
piece of material. The first one was Flying Tiger Line, who I worked for. A
Lockheed Constellation over Guam, where a Navy pilot went up
So that’s how they can go 120 knots. We know that the and he was just doing some, you know, aiming at the airliner
displacement hull of a boat, like say, the Ronald Reagan... going by because he had nothing else to aim at, and accidentally
Thetheoretical max speed is 1.34 times the waterline. So we let a missile go. And it shot down, killed everybody on board.
know the waterline of the Ronald Reagan is about a 1000 feet. So And that accident was always, you know, “unknown causes.”
you take 1.4 times the square root of that and you come out with
about 32 knots. And that sounds reasonable to most people. You But it caused Flying Tiger Lines to be the largest cargo carrier
know, as aircraft carriers going 32 knots – man, that’s really during the Vietnam War and the Pentagon to authorize a separate
hauling. Flying Tiger Airline, which was called Flying Tiger Air Services,
to run the extra flights down from Japan, down to Vietnam. I
The fact is, I think the Ronald Reagan goes about 90 knots. The mean, Flying Tigers made a fortune off that accident. And I was
reason I think that is because the Enterprise definitely went 75 in close con...
knots. I have friends that operated on that, and they said that
whenever they had to go some place fast, they would tell B: Just before I lose the point, I’d like to compare the testimony
everybody to get below decks - you know, because weather was here. Because we were told by Henry Deacon - now he actually
coming. And then they’d get it up to 75 knots. asked us to take this off our website - because he was curious
about what had happened to TWA 800. So when he was on the
The reason they did that is: Number 1 - they didn’t want anybody inside, he asked around.
figuring out how fast they went. And they didn’t want to get them
blown off deck. Because 75 knots is really rolling - that’s almost He said it was a Stinger missile. They aimed exactly at the drone
90 miles an hour! And you don’t want anybody trying to walk and just missed. This is exactly the way he said it. He said it was
across on the deck when they’re used to just maybe walking a Navy genuine accident. He said the whole thing was covered
around at 30 knots. up. He said the thing was right at the top of its classified altitude
limit - which is higher than is publicized - about 14,000 feet.
And then when you say: Well, when they got there, wouldn’t they
ask any questions? No. The fact is nobody asks any questions. J: That’s possible. Because it’s publicized at 8,000 feet. And
that’s why all this cancelled the Stinger out.
TWA 800 was shot down by a Navy submarine. It’s been kept
under wraps like that. I often hear people say: Well that’s not B: Yes. Is it possible that a Stinger would be fired from a
possible because we know that Navy guys are the most talkative submarine? I thought this thing was hand-held.
in the world and certainly somebody would talk.
J: No, I think the Stinger story and its classified altitude is...
That’s not true. Navy is one of the closest-knit forces in the Maybe we’re trying to make it like... terrorists fired it instead of
world. Nobody says nothing unless they’re supposed to. And the Navy. We would rather have terrorists fire it instead of our
there’s no possible way that anybody on that submarine would
69
Navy. Because our Navy just shot down the Iranian ship, so why J: Okay. They sent Angleton down to Tel Aviv, along with some
did they shoot down... guys at MI-6, to form Mossad. And for some reason, whoever, or
however it happened, James Angleton got allied with Mossad like
B: What Henry said was that it was a Stinger, but it was a Navy this [crosses fingers] forever. He was the mole.
accident.
If you remember, in 1960 he was the head CIA Director of
J: It could have been. Whatever it was, I doubt if a Stinger would Foreign Intelligence and he was the guy that always was looking
be fired from a Navy vessel. There’s too much evidence that the for the Russian mole. [laughing] HE was the Russian mole!
Navy did it. They did it and I doubt if they did it with a Stinger. Because, you know, he was so friends with Mossad, he’d tell
Mossad stuff and Mossad would pass it on to Russia.
B: OK.
So when David Ben-Gurion, in the summer of 1963, said, you
know: We have to kill Kennedy. We have to. I’m tired of him
J: A Stinger has an explosive on it and there were no explosives threatening us with inspecting Dimona. It’s none of his friggin’
in TWA 800. There was only the fuel which damaged anything. business. I don’t want to hear any more from Kennedy. You kill
And that’s for the record. him. He gave that order to Mossad and then resigned so that he
couldn’t be held responsible for it. Mossad then went to
B: Okay. Angleton.
J: Sanders did an excellent thing on that. But anyway, so that was The Kennedy assassination was not a CIA job, but it was greased
TWA 800. And it affected me directly because what the FAA by the CIA only because Angleton was in there with his buddies
came up with as an excuse – and you know, this is all Richard at Mossad. And he’s the one that greased the skids for everything
Clark’s fault - you know, trying to blame it on a center tank, that happened in Dealey Plaza and the escape and everything.
exposed wiring in a fuel pump. There were Corsican sharpshooters there, hired by Mossad.
That’s SO impossible, I cannot even tell you! During the time of They pulled off the whole thing and everybody says: Oh, they
this investigation I was flying a Lockheed L1011, which was a think the mob killed Kennedy or maybe Johnson did or, you
huge cargo airplane. It had a mammoth cargo door. and I was know, Castro. It wasn’t. It was Israel. And the reason they did is
taking Boeing 777 cowlings from Wichita, where they were made because David Ben-Gurion didn’t want any more inspections of
at Boeing, to Seattle. Dimona. And that’s all.
And when we’d wait for this thing to be loading, and we’d talk K: And that’s their nuclear... That’s where they do their
with the Boeing guys, they were just furious that the FAA and the nuclear/biological testing?
NTSP were trying to lay this on arcing wiring in a fuel pump.
Because there IS no wiring in a fuel pump that’s anywhere near J: That where they do the nuclear bombs, with plutonium they
the fuel. stole from us.
It’s just ridiculous. And everybody was pissed off about the K: But what’s Ben Rich got to do with that?
whole thing. I was pissed off because the FAA then said that you
had to keep enough fuel to cover the fuel pump so that it
wouldn’t arc – because, you know, if there’s fuel there, it can’t J: Okay. So Ben Rich was born to a very wealthy Jewish family
arc. Like it’s only if there’s fumes there, will it arc. in the Philippines, and very highly educated. And he was slipped
into Lockheed in 1953 as Kelly Johnson’s second-in-charge. And
he was there for the development of the U-2 and he was there for
Well, on the L1011 we had about 115,000 pounds of cargo the development of stealth.
capacity. And if we kept the center tank fuel pump covered, we
lost about two or three thousand pounds. And that was the make-
or-break. And it eventually bankrupted Kittyhawk, who I was K: There are a lot of Ben Rich, famous... kind of UFO quotes,
working for. But anyway... that kind of allude to things... technology. Right?
K: I want to ask you a question. Did you know Ben Rich? J: Right.
J: No. But I talked to people who did. Now I’ll tell you what Ben B: Yeah. There’s nothing about it in that book [referring to book
Rich had to do with this. First of all, do you know where he was John’s leafing through]. That book‘s the inside story about what
born? Ben Rich was one of the most, the biggest, Mossad spy in happened to the U-2.
the United States. I mean, he got the most classified information.
K: I understand.
Here’s what happened. Here’s how we got messed up with Israel.
In 1947 when Israel became a state, James Angleton was chief of B: And the XR71.
CIA in Rome.
K: But he did say... What’s the exact quote? You probably
K: Right. remember it.
70
J: We have stuff that would make George Lucas jealous. WE Okay, now here’s the set-up. All they wanted was stealthy
could take ET home. systems.
K: Yeah. So, I mean, he was an insider from way back, is what OK. In the next paragraph he says: In the midst of all this inter-
you’re telling me. Right? service rivalry, security and hustle and bustle, Major-General
Bobby Bond, who was in charge of tactical warfare, came
J: Yeah. But he was a Mossad spy, and I’m going to tell you how thundering into the Skunk Works with blood in his eye on a
they did it. Okay now so... boiling September morning.
K: But, on some level, if he’s a Mossad spy... Because the The Santa Ana winds were howling and half of L.A. was under a
Mossad seems to be in cahoots with - if you want to call them – thick pall of smoke. My asthma was acting up, and I was in no
you, know, the Nazi, NASA-Nazi group. mood for a visit. But General Bond was a brooder and a worrier
and drove me and everybody else absolutely bonkers at the time,
as he followed the progress of the F-117A.
J: I’m glad you understand that, because when people say: Did
Israel have anything to do with 911? I say: As much as Santa
Claus had to do with Christmas! He always thought he was being short-changed or victimized in
some way. He pounded on my desk and accused me of having
some of my best workers of his “Have-Blue” airplane – which
K: [laughing] was the 117A - to work on some rumored Navy project.
J: [laughing] So anyway... I did my best to look hurt and appease Bobby and even raised my
right hand in a solemn oath. I told myself: “So what? It’s a little
K: So, yeah, they’re all working together. You’re telling me white lie. What else can I do? The Navy project is top secret and
Angleton was involved with Mossad. You’re telling me Ben Rich Bonds has no need to know. We could both go to jail if I told him
was involved with Mossad. You know, we’ve got the whole... what was really up.”
There’s a whole alignment there.
So here he says: Unfortunately, on the way out to lunch the
J: Absolutely-positively-beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt. So now General spotted a special lock and alarm system above an
we get ready to build the stealth fighter. And this was the unmarked door which he knew from prowling the rings of the
beginning of the real secret stuff that went on within our Pentagon was used only by the Navy on its top secret projects.
government.
Bond squeezed my arm: “What’s going on inside that door?” he
The Navy wanted a secret stealth fighter of their own. It was demanded to know. Before I could think up another lie, he
called the F-19. And it gets confused here, because people say: commanded me to open the door. He said: “Rich, you devious
Oh, the F-19. That was really the F-117A. They just renamed it. bastard! I’m giving you a direct order! Open the goddamn door
this instant or I’ll smash it down myself with this goddamn fire-
No. No, the F-19 was a separate airplane. They made 62 of them. axe!”
I had a friend that not only worked in avionics, but I had a friend
that knew about it. He didn’t fly it, but he knew the guys who [Kerry laughs]
did. So they were completely separate airplanes.
The guy meant every word of it. He began pounding on the door
At the Skunk Works in Burbank... There was a gray iron kind of until a crack finally opened. He forced his way in, and there sat a
curtain that went down at the Skunk Works and [gesturing right] few startled Navy Commanders. “Bobby, this isn’t what you
you had the 117A on this side and the [gesturing left] F-19A on think,” I lied in vain. “The hell it isn’t, you lying SOB!”
this side. They used, both, F404’s, the engines. They used, both,
the same landing gear. And the reason was that they were trying I surrendered, but not gracefully. “Okay, you got me. But before
to build this secret Navy airplane without any money, using spare we go to lunch you’re going to have to sign an ‘Inadvertent
parts from the F-117A, so they’d keep it absolutely, totally secret. Disclosure’ form or they’ll both have our asses!” The Navy, of
course, was outraged at both of us. The Air Force General seeing
And you know what? They have, to this day. Because you can’t their secret project was as bad as handing a blueprint to the
find a person... That’s one of the big problems I had on ATS. Russians.
People would come down on me. I’d start talking about the F-19,
and boy, I’ll tell you, you talk about a sensitive subject! They K: [laughing]
didn’t want to hear that.
J: OK. So...
So here we have Ben Rich on page 48 [holding up book] talking
about the Skunk Works and how it works. And he says:
Meanwhile, the Navy came to us to test the feasibility for Stealthy B: That’s the F-19. You’ve got an artist’s impression of on the
weapon systems and set up their own top secret security system wall up there, isn’t it?
that was twice as stringent as the Air Force’s. We had to install
special alarm systems that cost us a fortune at the section of our J: At the end? Yeah. Those are artist’s renderings.
headquarters building devoted to Naval work. [Kerry laughs]
71
B: Beautiful plane. J: No, he quit.
J: Okay. Now, [pointing to book] see this little thing at the K: I know the story...
bottom of the page? It says General Bond was later killed in a test
flight. Because of the tragedy, the Pentagon ruled that general J: He probably knew it was coming. But the fact that he would
officers could no longer do test flights. actually say this in Esquire magazine, you know - two or three
months before, knowing it was going to be published - now, you
That was in 1984. You know what he was killed in? The story know, tells me he knows we are fast-tracking, you know, a nuke
was a MIG-23 - which we all knew was bullshit. He was killed in war in Iran. And there will be no war there without nuclear
an F-19 because he demanded the Navy let him fly it. And what bombs. That’s a given.
they did is, they disabled... electronically disabled... the control
system and killed him. B: What would Mike McConnell’s position be on this?
And the reason they did, is they didn’t want the Air Force to J: Mike McConnell... I’m sure, you know, he was MJ1. I think
know about the Navy project. And the reason they didn’t want he’s a good guy. We’ve clued him in on our “Qui Tam”
them to know about the Navy project is, part of those airplanes complaint because I think he can help. What he’s doing now
were going to carriers and part were going to Israel. And doesn’t make any sense to the overall program, but, you know... I
THAT’S the story of Ben Rich. don’t know. I’m just hoping Mike is a good guy. What do you
think?
B: Are you saying that Israel had, or has, the F-19?
B: We believe he’s a good guy. And it’s interesting...
J: The F-19. Yeah. I mean, it’s 25 years old. I mean, it’s a big
deal? Israel has... Does Santa Claus have Christmas? J: You know about his complete tie-in with Dan right?
[John and Kerry laughing] K: Oh yeah, absolutely.
K: Great stuff! Okay. I want to ask you something else also. The B: It’s interesting to speculate that the reason for the release of
General who Bush just fired, or whatever you want to call it... the National Intelligence Estimate in early December was to spite
Bush’s guns. Because that’s what it looks like... there was an
J: Admiral Bill Fallon! I’ve got a whole... I’ve got an Esquire attempt to stop the war.
story! When I heard that, I went right down to Borders and I
bought that thing and brought it home and read it word for word! J: And because of his tie-in with Dan, I think he’s a good guy.
[Kerry laughing] I mean you talk about a good guy! You know?
K: Right. Yeah, that’s basically what we think, but because of
K: Yeah! Absolutely. what we’ve heard from Dan about him, you know.
J: Oh absolutely! I made Marilee read that. I said: You read that, J: So what I’ve told the guys in the “Qui Tam” complaint... Jerry
because that’s the difference between war and not war! Leaphart is the attorney; Morgan Reynolds filed it. Judy Wood
filed her own separate suit. She’s the one that’s the expert in
K: Yeah, absolutely! molecular disassociation - DEW’s. There’s a few people
participating, including myself.
J: I said: If there isn’t any Navy good guys, HE’S the Navy good
guy. Now, you know, he’s been involved in a lot of bad stuff. He And, you know, I told these guys... I’ve been following along
knows about the alien... He knows about everything. But he was Morgan’s efforts. And in November I called him to make him
trying to do a good job. So that was a bad... aware of certain things I knew about airplanes that he didn’t
know about. And he said: Are you the aviation guy? And I said:
K: So that’s a real red herring, right? Yeah. And so we started an email dialogue.
J: Yes. And then in December he was going to take over Jim Fetzer’s
program for a couple of days and he said: Would you like to be
interviewed? And I said: Sure. So I went on there and then he
K: So we’re on a fast train somewhere right now? found out just how much else I knew about 911.
B: That’s bad news that he quit, I mean, or is that just his way And then, a couple days after that, he and Jerry emailed me and
of... they said: You know, we’re honored at what you said. We believe,
you know, you are very informed. Would you agree to help us?
K: He didn’t quit. He was fired, wasn’t he? Would you be interested in filing an affidavit? And I said: Yeah!
Tell me what you want. So I wrote that 15-page affidavit and ...
B: No, he quit.
K: That’s great stuff.
72
J: ...and I’ve been with them ever since. But when I was getting doubt, you know, that areas like that... Those are all houses,
into it I said: Now I want you guys to understand this – there is buildings, stuff like that. I mean, there’s just no doubt.
NO WAY we’re going to pull this off by ourselves. All we’re
doing is opening the door for somebody to help us. There’s no So anyway, the other day I thought, you know, I’d just like to
way we can bring this. There’s too much power overhead. see...I’ve got this photo - was taken by Lick Observatory. So I got
the other day... I was going to enlarge it to see if I could see that.
I’m hoping that there’s guys like McConnell and Fallon that will So I take this photo here [holds enlargement] and I say: Okay it’s
see what they’re doing and figure out a way to help us - because right here near Grimaldi, and I look. It’s all whited out!!! Look
we’re not going to do it ourselves. it... Here’s the beautiful fucking craters, and you look at that
spot! Aren’t there any craters? No!!! It looks like there’s a fog!
K: Okay. Do you believe that America is going to dissolve into You’re talking about something that really pissed me off!!
civil war sometime in the next few years?
[Kerry laughing]
J: I don’t think so.
J: So anyway I’m looking to show you Sandia. [unfolding large
K: You don’t? map]
[John shaking his head no] K: Yeah. Please do.
K: Okay. Well, what do you think of the fact that a lot of stuff, a J: This is my BEST map. [pointing to map] Here’s Las Vegas;
lot of government stuff, is being sent to Colorado? I mean, some here’s Groom Lake; here’s the Tonopah Test Range.
say Denver is basically, you know... The Pentagon and
everything else is moving to Colorado. K: Right.
J: I think it’s Sandia, but I think Colorado’s a cover story. But I J: And here’s Sandia. It’s on the Paiute Mesa. There’s a strip up
could be wrong. I think it’s all being sent right up there [pointing there and then there’s two new strips out on the dry lake there.
off camera]. As a matter of fact, let me undo this.... [John undoes And then up here they got a really neat secret base... Ely. Let’s
mike and is now standing across the room] see... here’s Wilson Creek, Lincoln, Welch. Oh, Ely, right out
about here. That’s a dry lake there.
20 years ago they were having trouble with keeping programs
secret by using secret names. So what they did is, they would K: Well, that’s in the middle of nowhere.
name a program a name that was common - like the Sandia
Mountains, the Sandia Corporation, you know, the Sandia Desert, J: That’s a 10,000-foot strip there. That’s a really secret one. You
all that - and called it “Sandia.” So that if it ever came up, can drive by at 2 o’clock in the morning and every once in a
everybody would think: Oh you’re just talking about Sandia while you will see the lights go on. Now, the way you can tell
Corporation. I drove by there the other day. [Kerry laughs] You secret bases is, the runway lights are blue.
know, but no, that’s the way they keep something secret.
[Kerry laughing]
[John pulls out enlarged photo] Here’s the spaceport on the far
side of the Moon. And I can just show you the NASA book with
the NASA photographs and you can just take your own J: That’s the Air Force.
magnifying glass and see that spaceport. [Kerry laughs]
K: Really?
There’s no doubt about it. And you know why? Because the
photo was taken in ’68, and NASA didn’t get serious about J: But they’ve got these...
airbrushing until 1970. So I bought all those pre-1970 NASA
photos, um... books, because they hadn’t developed their K: Why are they blue? What’s the significance of blue?
technique to airbrush...
J: That’s just what the Air Force secret-base runway lights are ...
K: Have you ever told Hoagland about that? Blue. So they’ve got this new deal here that’s been in effect for
like 20 years. Most of these things are underground. And when a
J: Yeah. As a matter of fact, we were on the George Noory show pilot comes for an approach - only when he gets to be about 500
and George showed him that. And I said: Now does that look like feet - the ground unzips like that [gestures, fingertips and palms
a space terminal to you, Richard? And he said: No, it looks like together, then palms apart] and he just lands. And the ground...
an airline terminal. could be forest; it could be a desert; it could be a cotton field, it
just unzips like that. He lands. It zips back up, and they take an
[Kerry laughing] elevator and go down.
Well, look. You can even see the tubes, the tube supports. I K: Wow! That’s great.
mean, there’s no doubt about it. Here’s the other thing... [pulls
out another photo] Here’s a crater called Damoiseau. There is no
73
J: So that’s Sandia. And that’s why it’s called Sandia. It’s to I found a thread called Are Extraterrestrials Real, As Real As the
make people think that it’s just a regular place. Nose On Your Face? And it was 108 pages long and it had been
closed. It had been closed because the guy, “Sleeper,” had been
K: So you haven’t had any exposure to time travel, to jump getting irritated with the questioners.
rooms, to...
So I started reading this thing, and about page 18, I said: This is
J: No, the jump room is great. And the other day Ron Blackburn real. This guy knows what he’s talking about. This fits in with
was over here because he gave my 6-year-old a computer. (And everything I’ve ever read. I need to talk to this guy. So I finished
I’ll have to think about whether we should edit this out or not.) the 118 pages and I put them in that book over there that says
But I was talking about the jump room and Ron said: Oh yeah, I Sleeper.
know that. It’s jump technology. He said it just like that: Oh, that
jump technology. I know that. [Kerry, John laughing] And so I emailed him, PM’d him, and eventually got to talking
with him. And it was so fascinating. I said: Would you mind
Okay, here’s the space plane that the guy saw over Ireland. coming back? People got to hear this stuff!
[reading from a hand-drawn diagram]: It’s 10 times bigger than a
Boeing 747. He said: No, no, I’ll come back.
K: Wow. Incredible. And I said: Okay, now just let me run interference for you. Don’t
talk back to anybody. Let me do it.
J: Twin tails slightly visible. Engine bay jet black. No nozzles.
So I went to Mark Allen and I said: I’d like to see if we can get
K: So you’ve never seen anything like that, have you? Sleeper back.
J: No. He saw it at sunset. He said: Sun angle very low, almost And he said: Well he better behave himself.
setting. Viewed at directly 7 o’clock, directly above, and it took 7
seconds to get to the horizon. He said: Disappeared over Belfast I said: Okay, he’ll behave himself.
out of sunlight. A white small nose and no vapor trail, no sonic
boom. Demarcation of body sections visible, all dark gray. And that started the I’m Coming Clean on Extraterrestrials. And
that ran 250 pages. He had the most views, the most posts of any
B: I had some correspondence with this guy. other thing. I mean it was just an enjoyable... Everybody’d get up
every day to see what, you know, the answers were to some of
J: Oh you did? the questions.
B: Yeah, just a couple of months back. And we figured things out K: So, is this stuff still up there?
together. The thing must have been going 18,000 miles per hour.
J: Yeah. I believe so. And, you know, people... It eventually got
J: Miles Johnston? very few insults. Of course, you know, you’re always getting the
guy who comes on and says: This looks like a whole load of
horse pucky to me, you know and I’d handle it. I’d always get on
B: Yeah. That’s correct. there first thing in the morning and handle the guys so Sleeper
wouldn’t have to do it.
J: These are his original drawings.
It was great up until the very end. I mean, even at the very end, it
K: Oh wow. was wonderful. And we had a LOT of fun with it.
J: When he first called me, he said: Would you have any interest And then, along with that, he wrote a blog called: What It’s Like
in this? I said: Of course, Miles! Send it, send it! And he said: to Spend a Day with an Extraterrestrial. And it’s the most
Well... fascinating space story you’ve ever read. And he said at the
beginning, he said...I forget exactly what he said. He says: This is
B: Now what I did, John, was I put him in touch with Mark written as a screenplay, but believe it or not, every word of it is
McCandlish so that Mark McCandlish could make a real true.
professional drawing for him. And so the two have been working
together so that Mark can add it to his file. And so those two have And it’s about going to Uranus and the people that live on
been having a lot of fun. Uranus. And what the buildings look like. It’s absolutely
fascinating. So I think Sleeper is 110% genuine. And, you know,
J: If I had one planet I could go to, I’d pick Saturn. Because they if it proves he’s not, I’ll be shocked beyond all possible belief,
say that, if you even get a look at it, your mind would be so because everything he says is dead on.
boggled that you couldn’t do anything for three days.
And, you know, when I talk about... And he’s taught me a lot of
stuff. Because, you know, in the last few years and people ask
me: Well, what’s it all about? Well I don’t know... maybe the
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Grays are selling our souls, or, you know, doing the... harvesting The air settles into the craters and if you’re in the crater, you can
us. I was wrong. They’re here to do a job. breathe fine. If you get out of the crater it takes a little longer. But
basically, the civilization of the Moon starts back at Newton.
And Sleeper’s the one that told us - and he puts this all Somebody has influenced our thought about the Moon since the
throughout - he says: Just try and live your life without envy, beginning of our thinking about anything.
hate, and greed. Love your family. He says that’s the only way
you’re going to move on. And you have to keep coming back to Newton, for instance, he started to venture and say, you know,
Earth, you know, and doing this until you learn how to do it right. that there might be more mass on the Moon. And, that’s brought
And when you learn to do it right, then you get to go out and play out in his three books now called Principia.
with the adults.
Shortly after Newton died, somebody modified his thoughts to
So Sleeper’s the one that, you know... And when I started out... make what is called the Newton Law of Universal Gravitation
It’s really interesting to see the general transformation because, which is:
you know, in the beginning he says... People would say: Is John
Lear right? Are there cities and people on the moon? And: No, F = [G m1m2] / r2
no. There’s nobody up there. And at the end he said: Yeah, John
Lear’s right. There are cities and people on the Moon.
...and he didn’t come up with that. That was somebody else. He
didn’t think that you had to specify what the mass was.
It was really a neat transformation. It took a while to do, for him
to come out, but it was really cool.
But, anyway, in 1856 there was a Danish mathematician and
astronomer named Peter Andreas Hansen. And he proposed ... He
K: That’s great. had been researching the times and the periods of Saturn and
several other things. He was VERY knowledgeable. But, anyway,
Part 4 he was also looking at the Moon, and he had found something
strange about the Moon - that when you did the predictions on
... We found a... what we assume is a fission reactor 29 miles in where the Moon should be for a particular time, for its particular
diameter. You can see the dome there. You can see the support mass, it was not there.
sections there.
And, so in 1856, he went before the Royal Society -
Astronomical Society - and proposed that there was a “bump” on
the far side of the Moon that was actually... The center of gravity
was actually placed 57 kilometers farther out in space than had
Start of interview been generally realized. And, for that reason, he thought that
there might be atmosphere on the far side. And, with this
Kerry Cassidy: Have we missed anything, John? Is there atmosphere, he thought there might be plants, vegetables, and
something that you wanted to cover that we haven’t had a chance maybe even human life.
to look at?
So, he was regarded as a hero and a very interesting guy up until
John Lear: Just let me talk a little bit about this civilization on the 1870, when a guy named Simon Newcomb came to Paris and told
Moon, because that’s been the thrust of my... everybody that Peter Andreas Hansen was full of beans, there
was not a shred of truth to it, and that, even if he was right about
these different times, that it wouldn’t make any difference. So
K: Okay, and tell us something about the glass structures that
guess who Simon Newcomb was. He was a Rear Admiral in the
Hoagland is talking about because he calls it “glass.” He says it’s
US Navy and Head of the US Naval Observatory in Washington,
a special kind of glass, but do you agree with him?
DC.
J: No.
The reason people have trouble with an atmosphere on the Moon
is, to have an atmosphere, you have to have gravity. And people
K: Okay, and why not? think that it’s one-sixth gravity. And they’ve been sold that over
the years.
J: Because he’s talking about, I think, the Apollo 14 pictures and
his thrust is those glass structures are domes. SOMEBODY has had an agenda here so that we DON’T think
that there’s any gravity on the Moon, but there is. And, the way it
K: Right. can be proven is by using the Bullialdus/Newton Law of Inverse-
Square, which takes the size of the planets - the diameter of the
planets - and the neutral point. The neutral point is that point
J: And those domes are what contain the air. No. The air... it’s a between the Earth and the Moon where the gravity of the Earth
thin atmosphere but as you know, according to Boyle’s Law, in exactly meets the gravity of the Moon.
an atmosphere, the lower it is, the thicker it is, so if you have...
And I had some wonderful drawings I posted but I don’t see them
here. As a matter of fact, I’m going to try and find them so that Now, NASA has traditionally told us that that’s 24,000 miles.
you can take a picture of them because they draw EXACTLY And, if you work out the inverse-square law with 24,000 miles,
what I’m talking about. the Moon does have one-sixth gravity. But, the fact is, the neutral
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point is at 43,495 miles. How do we know that? We know that J: We think it’s that color because, although the atmosphere is not
because Wernher von Braun told us that in 1968. We know that as dense as Earth, it’s higher. And the rays reflecting through the
because, in two of the books of Apollo, including Apollo 17 - and atmosphere will go more towards yellow.
there was another Apollo mission - they specifically told, you
know, they specifically said: Here we are at 39,000 miles and at B: But what you get on high mountains on Earth, for example,
the neutral point. you just get a darker blue. I mean, I know that because I’ve been
there. It would be a different composition of atmosphere in order
So, we KNOW that it’s between 39,000 and 43,000 miles. And to create that color effect, surely. It would contain different...
either one of those would work out to be about 60–64% gravity different gases. Do you know anything about that?
of Earth. So, having 64% of gravity of Earth, it CAN hold an
atmosphere. J: No.
And, well, people say: Well, if it has any atmosphere, how does it B: Okay.
keep the atmosphere? Well, the same way the Earth does. They
have forests, meadows, lakes, rivers, people, civilizations, and
it’s on a band of the Moon that’s just beyond where we can see. J: All I know is, it’s breathable. He stepped out. He said it was
And I have a picture here but I can’t find it. But it’s on a band. very hot - but not as hot as we are led to believe - and he said he
And that’s the same band that both Menger and Adamski visited. certainly couldn’t stand if for very long. But then he looked up
and saw that color sky and now...
I’m pretty sure Menger actually went to the Moon in 1954. They
let him step out of the train and breathe the air. He’s now 86 K: Can you tell us something about him? What is his
years old, living in Vero Beach, Florida. I emailed ’im the other background?
day to get the exact color of the Moon. And, if you could reach
that picture, I could hold it up. It’s behind the cigar box. Of the J: Howard was just a person living a normal life and they came
Moon, the color picture of the... and - or THEY - or the Moon people - came and invited him to
go up there. He wrote this book called Secrets of the Flying
Bill Ryan: I’m sorry John I don’t understand, I’m sorry, which Saucers from Outer Space: One Man’s Fantastic Revelations of
one are you referring to? Visitors from Other Worlds. He has a website. I’ve read this book
several times, as you can see.
J: It’s the long picture with the yellow sky.
Here [holds up book] I’ve highlighted exactly what he says what
he did on the Moon, where he was taken. There were a lot of
K: Up at the top? You don’t mean on the wall, do you? other people. He said the places he went... one of the places was
like the Valley of Fire in Nevada. He says: There we stop long
J: No. Behind the cigar box. enough for a guide to open the door and permit us to stick our
heads out for a brief moment, which was all one could take, for it
B: Oh! Here. was terribly hot outside - like a blast furnace. I was certain that
no one could have lived outside very long and was glad to have
shut the door.
J: Yeah. Oh, I see... those cigar boxes.
K: So is that maybe a basis for the domes as well, because you
B: I was looking at the... can regulate temperature? You can regulate...
J: No. Just hand me that photo right there. J: Right. Yeah, I’m sure there’s small domes. I don’t think there’s
any like Hoagland is saying though, huge domes all over the
B: Yeah. I’ve got you. I’ve never seen this before. Tell me what place.
this is.
[reading] Here he says: I looked up in the sky. It was a yellowish
J: Okay, this is the crater Copernicus. And this is the same photo color. When looking, I had a queer impression that if I walked
that’s up there [points to the wall] but all I did was put the exact some distance I would fall off since the horizon was so
color of the lunar sky. And how do I know that? Because I foreshortened.
emailed Howard Menger in Florida, who took a trip there in
1954. And when he looked up into the sky, he said that’s the There was other groups with him along with ordinary folks -
exact color he saw. He describes it as a saffron color. And I sent a scientists, geologists, electronic engineers, rocket experts,
number of swatches with different colors of saffrons to him in astronomers.
Florida and he marked the x on that particular color. And so I put
that color behind the crater Copernicus. And that’s the color of
the sky. K: But this guy is, you say, in his 80’s at this point?
B: Why would it be that color? Why wouldn’t it be blue? J: 86. He was 86 the other day.
K: Have you met him in person?
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J: Not in person. Only on email, and I’ve written to him. landing. All they were able to see was, it was a CIA cover-up
somehow.
K: But, basically as far as you’re concerned, he has no reason to
lie. Right? The other one is Aldrin’s comment. And, I’d just like to read
from Buzz Aldrin’s book.
J: No. No, because his story is the same as George Adamski’s
and Truman Bethurum’s. The other... what the government B: All the astronauts had some interesting things to say, didn’t
labeled as “contactees,” which was their way of saying: Yeah, they?
well, you know, they’re just “contactees.” And I think both of
them, both Adamski and Menger, became very important sources J: Pardon? The what? Yeah.
for the government.
Here’s what Aldrin says when he’s asked: How did it really feel
When I first got into this, you know, 20 years ago, people would to be on the Moon?
say: Do you think flying saucers are real? And, I would say:
Yeah but, you know, the George Adamski stuff was all bullshit. It
WASN’T! It was all real. So was Howard Menger. So was [reading] And he bristles. Quote: For Christ sake, I don’t know! I
Truman Bethurum, and Daniel Fry. All those people were telling just don’t know! I have been frustrated since the day I left the
the exact truth! Moon by that question.
But the fact is, if you’ve been to thelivingmoon.com, you’ve seen K: Yeah. That’s amazing.
the original government papers on who was involved in the anti-
gravity project in 1952. And Lear Incorporated, my father’s J: The fourth reason is the video of the light standard crashing...
company, is listed right there. And there’s a video floating around now – The One small step for a man. Now, that’s been alleged to
on the web that shows him at the blackboard teaching scientists at have been a joke. But, if it was, it was extremely well done and
the Bahnson Institute how a flying saucer flies. And this was very expensive.
probably 1954/1955.
My opinion? My opinion is that it was real, but that was during
But, the fact is, we had anti-gravity solved in 1957 or 1958. And the filming. And I base that on little details like the ladder, like
we started building our own craft and went to the Moon in 1962. the shadows. Everything about that tape is real. I think that that
And Mercury, Gemini, Apollo was just a COVER for all that was was a real out-take of One small step for a man.
really going on.
Number five: The Gs required to orbit and de-orbit. As you
B: Now, what do you say about the... all the NASA pictures, all know, the lunar lander had no couches, had no seats, had no
the Apollo photos of the Moon that do not show the saffron sky? chairs. They stood up. They stood up and they had an armrest
What’s going on? under here and one under here. [indicates under arms].
J: Yeah, it always shows pure black. And the reason is, they All they had was a little belt that came out from the side and
couldn’t show the real color. That’s why all those photos are so wrapped around them. Now, that’s not even good for a seatbelt.
fake. That’s why there’s no stars there. They didn’t have much of They’re called “pilot restraints.” That’s all they had. And you’re
a choice, you know. They’re trying to say that it’s dark, that it’s a telling me they came out of orbit at 50,000 feet and landed, and
vacuum. then blasted off, with an armrest? No. No, I don’t think that
happened.
Well, first of all, it can’t be a vacuum because Neil Armstrong
says he could pick up the dust with his toe. And we all know that And the other is the different ladder. In any picture of One small
a vacuum... that the dust will settle into a crust and you CAN’T step for a man and photos of the Apollo 11 taken AFTER that
pick it up with your toe. And, they couldn’t show the sky because show a much thinner ladder - one made of tubular, looks like
it was a saffron color and that would lead everybody to believe aluminum - compared to the one in One small step that is at least
there was atmosphere. that thick [indicates about 3 inches] and it’s an L-shape.
So I’m not sure whether Apollo 11 went and here’s why. Now, it So that’s my take. Apollo 11... I don’t think landed. The others,
may have gone to the Moon... the command surface module... maybe, but I’m not sure. If they did, if ANY of them landed, it
and may have orbited the Moon. But the problem I have is, they was with technology that used anti-gravity.
only had 22,000 pounds of fuel and they went into an orbit that
was about 50 miles by about 10 miles. This would be impossible B: That’s... that’s what we were told. We were told that they had
with 64% gravity. But, even if it was, from ten miles they’d have help. Otherwise they would not have been able to land.
to go down to the lunar surface, land, and then take off with
22,000 pounds of fuel. I don’t think that happened. I don’t think
they could do it. That’s not enough fuel to do that. J: That was the only way they could’ve done it.
Second of all, I have a group of friends that remote-viewed B: And they wouldn’t have been able to get through the Van
Apollo 11. Did it land? And they weren’t able to see any kind of Allen Belts. Do you have any view about that?
77
J: I believe that to be true. The only reason I hesitate is because B: Are you saying, therefore, that this is one of the causes for the
Bob Lazar told me that there was nothing dangerous about the gravity on the far side of the Moon, if you’re on the surface, to be
Van Allen Belt. But what you say about the Van Allen Belt, greater than it is on this side? And so the atmosphere is on the
“Sleeper” is adamant about. He said nobody can get through that. other side of the Moon?
He said that’s a protective layer around the Earth so that we
CAN’T get out. The only way that we COULD get out was with J: Peter Andreas Hansen felt that it was on the other side. But the
help. fact is, if there was more gravity further, it would depend on the
altitude whether the air was denser on the far side or the near
K: Right. That’s what we’ve heard. side. What we don’t know for sure is the altitude, the mean
altitude. If we knew that, we would be able to tell where the
B: We were told that, too, from the inside. The same thing. denser atmosphere is. But, in any case, the denser atmosphere is
going to go to the lower portion.
J: And that’s what Sleeper is very adamant about.
B: Okay.
B: Very interesting. Okay. Now, I have to ask you about the
standard rebuttal to the atmosphere issue, which is that when you J: This is a picture of the Moon. And this was taken by Lick
are looking at the Moon through a telescope and you see a star, it Observatory. And in any picture of the Moon you see - any
doesn’t twinkle. It’s just crystal clear. It’s like it’s always there picture from way back when, up until now - there’s a very bright
and then [snaps fingers] it suddenly disappears. spot up here which is called “Aristarchus.” If you ask NASA, or
anything about it, they just say: It’s incredibly white. We don’t
know what’s there or why it’s like that.
J: People who say that haven’t done that. First of all, if you read
V.A. Firsoff’s book called The Strange World of the Moon, you
will see that there are many instances of occultation. But the fact But, in fact, last summer we had an astronomer over in England
is, occultation can only occur... is if there is some sort of dust or take a picture and this shows it.
kind of sediment in the atmosphere.
We found a - what we assume is a fission reactor - 29 miles in
Here on Earth, there’s all kinds of problems up there. On the diameter. You can see the dome, there. [holds up photo of Moon
Moon, it’s clear, perfectly beautiful. You know, depending on the showing reactor.]
thickness, you may not see occultation. But, if you want to read
The Strange World of the Moon by V.A. Firsoff, he lists at least K: Yeah. This is great stuff!
14 or 15 astronomers that have seen occultation.
J: You can see the support sections there. And you can see the
B: Okay. I want to check my understanding of the issue of the glow blue... the blue glow of radiation while the reactor is going.
center of gravity of the Moon being offset from the center of the
Moon. Have I understood that right? K: Absolutely. So this is a nuclear reactor on the Moon. It’s
visible on this side of the Moon, right?
J: Correct. It’s 57 kilometers further away from Earth than is
normally thought. And of course that’s confirmed by Apollo, too. J: Correct. And we’ve always been told it’s just... It’s whited out
on any photo you see. They just take White-Out and they put it
B: That doesn’t sound like it’s enough to make any difference to there. And, in fact, it’s a beautiful...
anything. That’s a very small amount... relative to the size of the
Moon, at least. K: So this is really incredible! Did you talk to Hoagland about
that?
J: Well, of course, we don’t know what the Moon’s made of. We
don’t know how much, you know... how much actual weight that J: I can’t remember whether I did. But I know he wouldn’t admit
would be. But the fact is that the Moon does this... What do they it. [holds up photo] This is the Clementine photo. You see how
call it? Where it spins at the top? it’s been airbrushed? All it is, is just, you know, lines there.
Yeah... What’s it called? [reading] Libration. Another Spaceship B: We wondered whether you had any insights, intuitions, or
Moon mystery is its libration. And libration is the Spaceship anything else, about what happened to Steve Fossett.
Moon’s wobble. And this wobble is theorized by mainstream
science to be caused by tidal lock. Tidal lock is a nonsensical
theory to account for unknown forces, like “gravitons” to J: I flew for Barron Hilton for three years, both his Hawker 125
account for gravity. and his Lear Jet. And many, many times went to the Flying “M”
Ranch. And, so, I’m very familiar with that, very familiar with
Barron. And, the fact is that the Navy Undersea Warfare Center
Maybe the Spaceship Moon’s libration or wobble is caused by is only 16 miles to the east.
the rotation of the Moon about the location of the gravity B-wave
generator, which is located further away from the Earth, from the
center of the Spaceship Moon’s geocentric center. It’s curious to It is just coincidence that it was only two days after I posted all
note that one cycle of libration is equal to one period of rotation this stuff on the internet about the sub, the Naval Undersea
of the Spaceship Moon. Warfare Center, and the battleship, and Hawthorne’s tie-in with
the underground submarine base, that Steve Fossett disappeared.
78
So what I theorize is, that he took off and was just flying down thing that’s said: No substantiation for anything he claimed. And
there, saw an interesting place, flew around, and the Navy that’s it on Wikipedia. Now, you can find Bob Lazar, Bill Lear,
commander looked up and said: I’ll betcha that’s John Lear. you know, the Man on the Moon, Howard Menger, everybody
Shoot that son-of-a-bitch down. else, but you can’t find John Lear on Wikipedia.
K: [laughs] K: So Bob Nathan has disappeared, as far as you know?
J: So they shot him down. And they went over there... and they J: As far as Google. Yeah, I can’t find him. And, the reason I
looked and found out it was Steve Fossett. And the admiral said: looked for him was because I was telling the story of when Bob
We made a mistake. I don’t want anybody ever to know about and I went down to JPL. The reason we went down there is, Bob
this. Get rid of the airplane and the body. just got out of S-4. At S-4 he was shown a picture of what they
call “Cydonia.” And there’s pyramids there and “the Face” on
K: Crazy! That’s very crazy. Mars. He was shown very clear pictures. And on the pyramids
there was no doubt he could see doors, windows, handles, door
handles, everything.
J: But, you know... I say that semi-tongue-in-cheek. There’s no
reason for Steve Fossett to have disappeared like that. It’s just
UNBELIEVABLE, considering the amount of money, the K: Wow!
amount of airplane, the amount of time, that went into that
search. How could he POSSIBLY disappear? You know? J: I mean, it was a place where somebody lived. So, our question
was to Bob Nathan: Were there any other pictures taken, other
The problems I have with... You know, when he first than the two that Hoagland and DiPietro put in their book?
disappeared, we heard that he was looking for a straight-away for
his car. Well, you know, it’s pretty obvious. You can look on a And he said: No, not that we know of.
map. You need 7 miles. And there’s not many dry lakes that are 7
miles long. And all dry lakes are on a map. So he wouldn’t need And so then we said: Well, you know, these pictures were taken
to fly around to find some accidentally-undiscovered lake bed. I at a very low altitude. Was Viking ever taken lower than the
mean, it’s ridiculous! pictures that Hoagland and DiPietro have?
K: Well, plus he’s not going to fly between the mountains for And Nathan said: Yes, but we didn’t take any pictures from that
that, right? lower altitude.
J: No. And then, you know, we heard that he took his watch K: [laughs] Right.
which had the automatic emergency signal. And then it turned
out no, he didn’t have his watch. But, I will say this, the stories
that he was shot down over restricted areas like Groom Lake or J: So what that tells us is how compartmentalization works again.
Tonopah Test Range are just ridiculous. That’s just not the way it Bob Nathan knew one part of his program, but Bob Nathan is not
happens. the head of the program, you know. He just is the front man for
the certain things that he does, you know. It’s the guys down in
Australia... you know, Canberra, that get the original signals that
K: I think he was recruited and sent to Mars or something, or the tell, you know, exactly what’s going on.
Moon.
K: Right.
J: Pardon?
J: We had a girl named Kathy Thomas that worked at Goldstone.
K: I said think he was recruited... maybe forcibly, to work, you And she used to tell us some funny stories, Bob and me. Because,
know, on Mars or the Moon. she would get the signals from Australia, and she’d say: We’d be
sitting there waiting for Mars signals, and it would be 24 hours
J: He very well could have been. There’s some people that have and they’d say... they’d send a message down and say: “Well,
disappeared I have some questions about. And the number one you guys done airbrushing those pictures? We need them.”
guy is Bob Nathan. Now, Bob Nathan was head of JPL’s Viking
imaging. VERY well known... always accessible to the public. You know?
Bob Lazar and I went down to see him PERSONALLY to ask K: [laughs]
him a question about Mars. We got badges. We were admitted
personally. He told us everything he knew. You know, he was
easily accessible. Now, you Google him on the... you Google J: So anyway, she invited me and Bob down to Goldstone and we
him, and there’s no record of the guy! got the royal tour. I mean, we got up in the antenna and all the
different places there. It was really great! Unfortunately, she got
canned about two weeks after that, and she went to work for
K: Wow! Raytheon, up at the test site. And I haven’t heard a word from her
since.
J: It’s like you go to Wikipedia and look for John Lear... He does
not exist. And if you look into the records on Wikipedia, the only
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K: Oh, wow. they didn’t search them in those days. And he walked right into
S-4 with it. And he had a chair, and he leaned back like that, and
J: Now, Bob says he’s heard from her. he put it up into the leg. And, then he was going to take a picture
and bring it out. But he had his problem before he got it out. So
after he left, somebody found that camera! And that’s when all
K: Oh yeah? the weighing started! [laughing]
J: But once you go to work there, you don’t talk to anybody. For K: [laughing] That’s a great story!
instance, if you go to work for Space Command in Colorado
Springs, when you get hired you’re told to say goodbye to ALL
your friends, because you’re going to have a whole new set of Okay, John, now one last question. You flew for years and years
friends. And they don’t want you to accidentally, you know, meet and years, right? As a major airline pilot. OK? So you were up
an old friend and say: Hey, you know, you’ll never guess what there quite a bit. Did you ever see a UFO when you were flying?
I’m doing now!
J: You know, as I explain to people, when you’re flying, you’re
They’re serious. They say: Say goodbye to your old buddies not looking for UFOs. You’re looking at the instruments and
because you are NOT going to see them again. And that’s how seeing where you’re going OR, in my case, sleeping. And then at
they avoid those little mix-ups like that. night, you know, when it’s easier to see UFOs, you’re not
looking outside. First of all, you’ve got a brightly lit instrument
panel here and it’s reflecting on the window, and there are all
K: Wow. Incredible stuff. kinds of reflections around. You’re paying attention to what’s
going on, or, like me, sleeping.
B: Are you saying that Bob Lazar was shown detailed pictures of
Cydonia at S-4 when he was working there? And so, it’s very difficult. You wouldn’t notice. You wouldn’t
have the CHANCE to notice a UFO. You would have to put your
J: Yeah, yeah, he was shown the pictures of the pyramids and face up to the window and cup your hands, you know, and who’s
the... going to do that? You know?
K: Do you know WHY he was shown those pictures? K: Right.
J: Part of his briefing. They told him, you know: These are the J: But yes, there’s twice I saw UFOs.
bases we had on the Moon, the base we had on Mars.
K: [laughs]
B: What does he remember about what he was told about the
Mars base? You know, its function, and how big it is, and who J: Once was in 1966, on descent into Los Angeles, in a Lear Jet,
else is there? over Palm Springs on that LONG descent through Panning Pass.
And I was descending and I saw a white object going left to right
J: Nothing. I’ve told you everything he told me. And all that was, across the front of me. And it looked exactly like an M2-F2 - and
that he was shown the picture. We went down to ask Nathan that’s the “flying bathtub” that, you know, the Seven Million
about it and that’s all he was told. When you decide what you’re Dollar Man crashed in.
going to pursue, that’s all they tell you about. And his pursuit and
his job he wanted to do... back-engineer the propulsion. They Remember that series? It didn’t have any engines. It had a little
don’t brief you into anything else. engine, but that was for landing. It just looked like a flying
bathtub.
Another interesting thing I wanted to talk to Dan Burisch about...
You know, what sold me on Dan Burisch was the DETAIL of the K: You mean the Six Million Dollar Man, right?
formalities. You know, when you get out of the airplane, what are
they doing? Dan Burisch... I watched that video tape. You know,
he spent an hour telling EXACTLY what they do! It was so J: Yeah. And so when I landed I even took the time to call the
detailed! I don’t see how anybody couldn’t believe that stuff. chief pilot of Lear Jet, Hank Beard, and I said: Hey! You’re never
going to believe what I saw! The M2-F2 passed me today, you
know, going into Palm Springs. Only years later did I realize how
K: Right. ridiculous that was! [Kerry laughs] That an M2-F2 would be
flying across the main approach path to Los Angeles
J: I mean... you just couldn’t make that stuff up about being International Airport, you know. They only flew that thing way
escorted here, and the changing of the guard and all that stuff. out in the desert. So, you know, obviously that was something
But, one of the things he said... he was weighed, you know. else.
They’re weighed in and out very carefully, you know. And what I
want to tell him is, the reason that just came up a couple of years K: So twice... so that’s one.
ago is because that started with Bob Lazar. [laughs]
J: And then in a Lockheed L1011, here just before I retired, with
Because on one of his trips up there, he took that little 110 Kittyhawk International, going westbound over the Midwest. No,
camera that was just about that big [indicates small size]. And it was just like, south of Chicago. I was looking south... and of
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course the guys I flew with... you know, no one was interested in going on. All we can do is be responsible for ourselves. And
UFOs. They didn’t want to know about it. They didn’t want me that’s to live our lives without envy, hate or greed, and to tell
to point out any UFOs. I didn’t even bother looking. Besides, I’m each member of our family how much we love them, and to tell
usually asleep anyway. But it just happened that I was woken up them that every day.
here this time.
J: I TRY living without envy, hate and greed. But there are sure a
And it was very, very dark and very quiet. And I saw this thing lot of assholes out there so...
come like this and go [makes explosive sound and indicates
upward direction]...just way, way out into outer space. And I [laughs]
said: Wow! That was really something! And then I saw another
one. BAM, out the other way! I said: Boy, that’s really
something! You know, I ought to tell these guys, but as soon as I K: That’s great! I think we’ll make that our ending.
do there’s not going to be another one. And I’m going to look like
an idiot. [laughter] [theme music comes up]
So, then, here comes the third one... BOOM! Like that! Lunch Break
And I said: Well, I’m going to try it. And I said: Hey guys, I want J: What are you worried about?
you to look at something over here.
K: We’re worried about losing...
And we were looking over there and a fifth one came, and it went
BOOM, like that! And both of them sat down and said: Boy, I B: We’re just worried about losing good stuff when we’re not on
never saw anything like that! So that was the second time. And it camera.
was really great because they both got to see it. There was no
denying it.
J: [laughing] because I’m not wired up.
K: That’s amazing. Wow!
B: Because, if you’re not wired up to the mike, it’s lost forever.
Then we think we’ve got it, but it was actually over lunch. We
J: I mean, they were both in a state of shock. have to control the environment here. That’s why...
K: That’s fabulous! J: That’s exactly right.
J: And, you know, it was definitely a UFO. It was too small to B: And it’s so easy to forget. It’s like, s**t, this is like something
see what... you told us over a coffee break!
K: So, what year was that, do you remember? Conversation Over Lunch [audio only]
J: It would have been in ’98... ’97 or ’98. J: He says: You blew her off a couple of years ago at your front
door. She came to talk to you and you told her to, you know, take
K: Oh, not that long ago. a hike. I said: Unbelievable!
J: So I’m sure that must have been our stuff. K: [laughs]
_____________________ So, anyway, I called up Angela and it just happened that a couple
of weeks later she was running a full week course.
Okay. So people say: Okay, John, there’s flying saucers and
Reptilians and secret bases and secret satellites. And we did our The reason I wanted to take remote-viewing was because I’m not
own 911 - we bombed ourselves. And there’s wars and you say the least bit psychic. I don’t know when my wife’s mad. [Kerry
there’s nuke wars coming. You know, what are we supposed to do and Bill laugh] I don’t know when the doorbell’s going to ring. I
with all this? I mean, what’s the point of all this? don’t know when the telephone’s going to ring. And I wanted to
find out if I could remote-view.
The point of all this is to try and advance in your... in your life.
And the way that you can do that is to try and live your life And the answer was POSITIVELY ABSOLUTELY! I was
without envy, hate or greed. Also, to spend as much time with shocked at the stuff I could do.
your family and tell them how much you love them. That’s really
all we can do. K: Wonderful.
We can’t be responsible for the bad guys. We can’t be J: And one of the things we did is, each day one guy got to send
responsible for the children that are having so much trouble in the the others, to “task” the others. And I tasked them Venus. And I
world. We can’t be responsible for the nuclear wars if they are
81
did no front-loading, you know, which means I’m giving advance J: Well, both Adamski and Menger... I think they both either saw
information. it or went there.
K: I’ve taken remote-viewing. K: There’s also supposed to be some case of a human-looking

alien visitor in the White House?
J: I said nothing. And at the end I had to laugh ’cause everyone,
you know, when they cooled down, said: Wow! What a place! I’d B: This is Valiant Thor. This is theStranger at the Pentagon.
love to go THERE! You know, because it’s beautiful there.
J: Val Thor? Val Thor. Yes.
K: OH, that’s great.
B: Yeah, Val Thor. That was told by Frank Stranges who wrote
J: And it was really satisfying to do that. this book called Stranger at the Pentagon. And if I remember
right - I haven’t read the book - if I remember right, Val Thor
K: Cool. Yeah. Well see, there you go. was supposedly from Venus. And that was before they decided to
cancel the Venus story.
J: What happens... In the late 50’s we had a couple of Navy
people who used a balloon, checking out the atmosphere of K: Right.
Venus. And they said there’s probably an atmosphere, and, you
know, for all intents and purposes, probably life there. So, for B: What do you know about that?
whatever reason, we had to put a stop to that.
J: Only that his - Val’s ship - was supposed to be parked right out
And, I theorize that they got some general around a table like this here at Lake Mead. And I have the co-ordinates right here. You
with his aids and he was telling them: So here’s the plan: [Kerry can go right up there and see where it was. But that’s all I know
laughs] We got to be sure that nobody believes there’s life on about Val Thor.
Venus, so I need you guys to give me some ideas now. Let’s think
this through. B: One of the people who we met after we interviewed you was
Bob Dean, who you must know quite well. Wonderful man. And
And so, one guy say: How about an atmosphere of sulfuric acid? he told us that the aliens who the authorities were most worried
by were the ones who are indistinguishable from ourselves.
The guy says: Good, good, I like that... atmosphere of sulfuric
acid! Now, come on guys, let’s think outside the box here. What K: Right.
else?
B: And who were walking the corridors of the Pentagon, and in
Well, how about volcanoes, exploding volcanoes? Better yet, government, and in the military and, you know... Walking down
we’ll make a volcano every square mile on Venus, with lots of the street, you’d never know the difference. Have you heard
lava flowing around. anything about that?
Okay, come on, let’s get some more ideas here. How about 90 K: Have you heard that?
bars of pressure?
J: There are aliens like that. But the problem is, we allied
That’s good, good! 90 bars of pressure! Nobody could live with ourselves with the wrong aliens. We think that the Grays are our
90 bars of pressure, 90 times the pressure on Earth. He says: I enemy. And that’s why we built those twelve... or at least
think we got a good, good program here. twelve... weapons-based platforms for the direct energy weapons
that circle the globe now. And we started in 1968, before Apollo
And so one of the captains says: You know, General, I don’t think ever went, and we’ve been building it ever since.
anybody’s going to believe this bullshit. I mean, how could that
all happen to a planet, you know, so close to us? I mean, why K: Hmm.
would there be sulfuric acid and exploding volcanoes, you know,
and 90 bars of pressure? J: And what they intend to do - and when I say “they” I’m talking
about the Nasty-NASA-Nazis - is, if they can’t get rid of the
And he says: Don’t you worry about that, son. If we say it loud Grays, they’re going to blow up Earth. Because they don’t want
enough and long enough, they’ll believe it! the Grays to have what they consider the prize. They don’t
understand that there’s BILLIONS of Earths. There’s billions of
And so that’s how the new planet Venus was born! Earths, just identical to us, all in various stages of development,
you know? And they think they’re going to destroy Earth. And
they’re not.
K: Incredible. Well, I mean, that’s actually a believable scenario,
what you just laid out.
Now, in support of that story, one of the first things Bob told me
that night was, he saw a message that we sent to the owners of
82
the Grays. And it was: Either you help us get rid of the Grays, or believable. He was working across the lab. And he just looks
nobody’s going to have Earth. over at this guy and asks him a question. And he says the second
eyelid went down for a second, you know! [laughs].
And that’s when Bob told me about this super-weapon that we
have, that could destroy a continent half the size of South K: [laughs]
America. And since then, I’ve heard, you know, really
knowledgeable guys say: Yeah. We have some really frightening B: [We’ve been] contacted by somebody who’s a scientist, who
weapons. And I’m not sure how it’s going to turn out. actually is a nephew of one of the ex-CIA Directors. He’s a solid,
very smart guy. And he went in just for a couple of days at one
So the plan is, the guys who run all of this stuff are going to point to do a particular technical job in Dulce. This is how this
destroy... The plan is to destroy us if they can’t get rid of the whole conversation started. And as part of his briefing for going
Grays. And of course they’re not going to get rid of the Grays. to Dulce, he was told about what he should do if he should
The Grays are ALL OVER the friggin’ place! encounter a Reptilian. This was part of the briefing, very matter-
of-fact.
K: Right.
And, what he was told is, if you encounter one of these guys, you
J: I can’t say they’re beneficial. They have a job to do and that’s drop your hands with your palms open to show that it’s a gesture
to take care of the “containers.” Sometimes it’s good, sometimes of supplication. It shows that you’re not a threat. But you don’t
it’s evil. But that’s their job. And there’s nobody who’s going to do that... you do that. And he said that that’s what you do with
interfere with that. So they will almost certainly protect us from these guys. And then they’ll leave you alone.
any kind of disaster that’s going to come along. But meanwhile
the Nasty-NASA-... And he did encounter one of these. He encountered one Reptilian
in silent communication with one Gray - and just on one
K: Okay, but what about the Reptilians? occasion, just for a few moments. And he did what he was told,
you know. And he said that this large creature was awesome and
arrogant and cold, and looked like he could just, you know, kill
J: They’re a separate deal, I’m sure. They have their own you with a single blow.
civilization. They’re probably underground.
J: Uh huh.
K: Well, I mean, you certainly know that there’s more than one
kind of Gray, right?
B: And you know, just back away... back away slowly. And
everyone was cool. Everything was cool. And he told us this in a
J: Yeah. There’s plenty of them and there’s plenty different types very matter-of-fact way. Does that match what you’ve heard?
of Reptilians. And Ron Schmidt and I are talking with a guy,
really a knowledgeable scientist, you know, a guy that would sit
down and be comfortable about talking about anything. And he J: Absolutely. 100%... It sounds like many stories that I’ve
told us his first encounter with a Reptilian. And it was so heard...
83
Project Camelot:
Futuretalk III-A Conversation With
Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon”
15 July 2008
Michael St Clair, Kerry Cassidy, Bill Ryan in Frankfurt, Germany
Henry Deacon, audio only
Henry Deacon: Well, I’m doing OK at the moment. This kind of

happened by surprise. I didn’t expect this. I just happened to still
be awake and everything happened all of a sudden just. So,
anyway. Go ahead.
Kerry Cassidy: We’d like to know your thoughts on, actually,

where you think the situation is going, and how fast, in the world.
Henry: Well, nobody knows for sure because things change

constantly, as we all know. We only have probabilities to work
with.
We met with and interviewed this man in early September, but he
declined to appear on video or to have his name made public... Switzerland... intuitively is all I can go by - well, not all I can go
for entirely understandable reasons. (Henry Deacon is a by - sounds like it might work if you have people who are very
pseudonym for Arthur Newman1, prompted by his similarity to familiar with the country, which it sounds like you are. So I
the likeable and creative polymath on the Eureka TV show.) would say it would be a good choice as far as population density
and the distance from... wherever you think the population
In this extraordinary, wide-ranging on-record testimony, he density is not too great.
describes his work and experiences, and reveals some astounding
information about the coming planned war with China; one way And of course you have lots of mountains, right? So we could
in which drugs are smuggled by the military from Southeast Asia; talk about that. I’m sure you’ve already thought about all those
stargates and instantaneous communication over vast distance; things.
the inhabited planets of Alpha Centauri; chemtrails; rips in
spacetime caused by atomic testing, and the damage and danger My only other choice on the planet, really, was someplace that I
they have caused; the use of viruses to reduce the world's could point to on a map of South America. But that’s way off
population; the shooting down of an alien craft by a unit in which course from what you’re focused on. So I don’t think I should go
he served; and much more – including, possibly very importantly, that direction. Go ahead.
a confirmation of Dan Burisch's testimony.
Kerry: Well, would you like to volunteer some information? I
We believe that the far-reaching information disclosed by this mean, I know that you’ve been working on screening some of
man is highly significant. We salute his courage in coming your computer equipment lately. Do you want to tell them why?
forward to ensure these truths are known, and encourage and
support all others to follow his example.
Henry: You mean screening it as far as EMP [Electromagnetic
Pulse], or screening it because of the new news that you read
Start of conversation from the Christian Science Monitor article? Both things are
important.
Michael St Clair: How are you doing today?
Kerry: What was that article about? I’m sorry, we’ve been in this
meeting so we didn’t have a chance to see...
1 Henry: As far as your main topic goes, it just seems like as soon
Physicist Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” came forward with his real
name on stage at the Zurich conference for “A New World – If You Can Take It” as something comes to my mind, within 24 to 48 hours for the
on July 12th , 2009. Dr Brien O’Leary was speaking about free energy and Arthur last two weeks, it pops up in the news. It’s been happening a lot. I
came to stage to testify that in fact what Dr. O’Leary was saying was true and don’t... it’s.... which means there’s something very strong
gave directions to a college library in California where this proof was located in happening, something very potent on an invisible level, that’s
public record. He presented his US government “Brown” passport to prove who happening.
he was. And David Wolcock vouched for him.
84
Bill: It means you’re picking up a loud signal. Right? Henry: Yes.
Henry: Very, very strong signals on almost every subject. Bill: And he was up in Alaska and, you know, they said that they
found the largest oil reserve, basically, on the planet up there, that
Kerry: Well, could you elaborate as to what kind of - what was larger than, actually, the reserves in the Middle East. And it
information - you’re getting, a little bit? got classified by the US government and shut down the day after
they announced it.
Henry: I don’t claim to be a psychic, by the way. It’s just
happening. So... [laughs] That’s not my expertise, but it seems to Henry: Mm hm.
be happening anyway.
Bill: So, you know. I’m just wondering what the odds are of
Well, where do I start? It’s the financial thing that seems to be compartmentalization on things like this, and actually that, you
happening. I can’t even keep a list. I haven’t even been making a know, certain people on certain levels, even Q-level, are being
list. I was going to prepare something for later, but I didn’t even told one story and at another level the story is different.
have a chance to do that yet.
Henry: Well, there are two things. One is that at that period in
Kerry: We wanted to get your advice just in terms of... Certainly time - the late 70s - we didn’t have the same type of ground-
Bill and I know what you’ve been telling us for, actually, two penetrating systems that we do now. We weren’t...
years now. But Michael would like to hear, probably, some
things first hand about the environment that you’re getting Kerry: So the discovery could have been made, actually was
impulses about. made, after you had this meeting, in other words.
So could you tell him the current situation, from your point of Henry: Yes.
view? How soon, how quickly they need to act to make this a
reality? Kerry: But they’ve kept the cover story. Theoretically, they’ve
kept the peak oil cover story going for a reason. I mean, they
Henry: Well my experience is that I tend to... when I’ve said in don’t plan to release this anyway, even if it does exist.
the past that something’s going to happen in a year, it usually
doesn’t happen for a few years - up to 10 years, from past Henry: Yes, well, I don’t know that it exists. I’ve never heard that
experience. [laughs] it does. I mean, there is a high probability that it does exist. But
still it’s not going to solve the converging problems that we’re up
So, I’m saying six months, but whats that? That’s just pulling it against anyway very shortly.
out of a hat right now. Probably longer than six months. It
depends on where you are. And what kind of financial resources, Kerry: Right. So could you name some more of the converging
or assets, what form your financial resources are in. Because problems for everyone here, just to focus their minds a little?
there’s a lot of instability, of course, in some of the banking
systems. Those are kind of unknowns.
Henry: Well, we’ve got the economic problems. We’ve got the
manufactured war problems.
Of course, your health is your most important asset...
Kerry: OK, but, we also want to talk... I mean, what kind of
I’d like to say that the peak oil thing is not manufactured. It is planetary changes are we looking for and do you think anything’s
real as far as I know simply because in 1970... the late 70s... I going to happen within the next six months?
went to a Q-cleared meeting at the Department of Energy. You
may or may not know what Q-clearance means. And we had laid
out all on the table the projected date, with graphs and charts, for Henry: Maybe not in the next six months, but there’s a
peak oil as having been right 30 years from then. So, what’s ‘78 possibility, for instance, that we’re going to have a magnetic pole
plus 30? So, that’s now. And that was on scientific data. That was shift very soon here. Magnetic pole shift. I don’t know what
not political or anything else, you know. That was just fact, from effect that’s going to have, except that it could have some
everything that we knew. atmospheric effects, ionospheric effects, and a whole other list
that you may or may not be able to figure out. Van Allen Belt,
effects on that. Some of Earth’s protective shielding could be
Bill Ryan: Just a question for you on that. Because, you know, distorted from that. And global shortwave - HF - 'skip'
you hear these people, like Lindsey Williams and others... Do communications may be more difficult - due to ionospheric
you know who Lindsey Williams is, for example? changes. Relying on satellites for global communications is not a
good idea either. That leaves the modern world with some
Henry: No. But I can imagine it’s probably someone who says problems as well.
it’s not so.
As far as incoming - possibly incoming - Planet X, or whatever
Bill: Well, Lindsey Williams ... he’s a Baptist minister, right? that people talk about, I for some reason don’t feel too concerned
He’s not the type of guy that sort of, you know... He’s not going about that - in the next 12 months, at least. I don’t feel concern
to make this up for reasons of, you know, just... he doesn’t have about it. I don’t have much to go on at the moment for that.
the skill-set to do it. Right?
85
I am thinking of the rapidly growing demands for resources and Henry: But as far as planning goes... that’s why it’s important to
the collapse or changes of the financial systems, and the various do the planning/preparation as soon as possible, while people are
created threats of various wars - created wars, and I just see the still able to communicate effectively with each other. [Kerry
population growth rate increasing very rapidly as another root laughs]
cause in a long list of converging things. We already have a very
large city being added to the planet every 24 hours, right? It’s Kerry: We’re with you on that. And yes, there’s a dividing line
kind of hard to educate that many new people on the planet when starting to happen, I think, or several dividing lines.
the population is growing at this rate.
Henry: You know, it’s not just the breakdown of the family unit,
Kerry: OK. And viruses? Do you have anything to say about which has been going on for a while now. I’m talking about just
that? between even the best of friends, you know. So I think that
probably we that are gathered here at the moment have a greater
Henry: Well, I don’t know what the current thing is, but I feel chance of communicating, but even that can fall apart easily, no
that some very simple things can help protect you from those, matter how hard you might wish for that not to.
from the viruses that have been released or may be released
shortly. So I’m not quite sure how to fix that except to... The strange
thing is the mental processes and the mind itself and I’m no
I’ve mentioned something, last year, that sounds really really expert at that. I’m just learning. So, but...
maybe ridiculous, but it’s Vitamin D3, 2500 IU a day if you’re
not getting enough sun to create that in your body. Kerry: Do any of you have any other questions that you might
want to ask Henry? OK, Bill is suggesting that you might
And then this... Of all the strange things, something that Bill mention to everyone the factors that you might want to consider
handed me that I did some research on, which is this Sodium for a “safe place,” if in fact we might not have thought of them in
Chlorite solution [MMS]. But as far as... what do you want to terms of...
look at? What’s coming? Or what do you need to prepare for?
I mean obviously we know running water is one of the things, but
Because there are so many things that are... There are certain you might have some other things you might want to tell them
things that are converging that are not physical things as well. about.
They’re on a level where I feel and see a very... in the next,
starting now, and for the next three or four years, greater and Henry: As stated before, proper training of your mind, along with
greater difficulty for people to communicate with each other. Not meditative/relaxation practice is the most important “safe place”
just electronically. But even face to face. [laughs] preparation.
Because of some... something that I can’t explain in words, that Shelter comes next, and then water. I’ve got a massive amount of
maybe Michael might be able to understand and explain, I don’t survival lists and data that not only I’ve created but also collected
know. Our normal senses are very limited - remember this. Most since the ‘90s at least, and before. And from different sources as
of what IS - is undetectable… be thankful for that! well. And to list it all out thoroughly so that you're well prepared
would be quite difficult in just a few minutes.
Michael: Yes. I know what you mean. Go ahead.
This also reminds me of having on hand some Calcium
Henry: It parallels a Novelty Theory kind of thing, or a chaotic Hypochlorite - that's swimming pool shock powder - for water
kind of thing that’s happening. It’s just a breakdown, like a purification. A very small amount goes a long way. And note that
Tower of Babel type scenario, among most of the people on this the US is trying to stop sales of portable iodine-based water
planet. Not everyone, but 99.99% of us. But unless your mind is purification systems... their reason is that they say it's used for
very well trained and the other people you’re communicating manufacturing meth-type drugs!
with or want to communicate with are very well trained, there
will likely be a lot of disorientation and interference - both man- I listened to some of, I think, what Michael mentioned, did you
made, sort of, well, for lack of better words, artificially created - not, on the video? But yes, water, you need to know how much
and even more so, naturally created. water you’re going to need for the people. You need to know
how long you need to have this place or these locations or this
Kerry: Yeah. Michael and I were just discussing that yesterday. location. How long you’re going to need to really utilize it, so
that you know whether to just stockpile supplies or if you need to
Henry: Because of where we are in, so to speak, space, what be able to, you know, start growing your own food and such.
we’re traveling through right now, and still approaching, is one of
the things that’s causing this distortion as well. There’s several... Kerry: Well, how long, in your opinion? What are we looking at?
It’s interesting that many things are all converging at the same Several years?
time. I don’t really, specifically know why.
Henry: I think ideally you’re looking at something like about 5
Michael: I understand you well. I am saying exactly... years, to be on the safe side, five years of living in that type of
survival-mode system, you know. I’m talking about once you’re
really living in it, a five year period of time or so to getting out
the other end.
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I keep hoping that... I keep dreaming that nothing’s going to Of course, you still have a domino effect on a global scale
happen, but it’s always best to be prepared and not be... You because you’re talking about all the various... anything, all the
know, like squirrels put acorns away for winter, you know. various technologies, banking systems, and communication
systems.
Kerry: Well, as you know, I think we mentioned we’re creating a
website that’s going to provide resources to people. So if you We rely very heavily on satellites for most communications on
have information that we can possibly PDF and upload to that the planet now. And satellites are very sensitive to these things,
site, it would be really helpful in the future. I’m just mentioning except for a handful of them which were EMP and radiation
that. hardened against this type of thing. But that’s not going to be for
public use, of course.
Henry: I sent you a reference to getting free CDs that are being
distributed. I don’t know if you’ve seen that yet. I received one, a Michael: Henry, would that kind of a charge fry computers and
CD, and it’s basically how to reconstruct things if they should fall things that are off, also?
apart.
Henry: Oh yes. They don’t have to be turned on.
Basically the whole thing is technology. We’re relying so heavily
on technology, the western society, the first world countries. It’s Michael: They don’t have to be turned on. So in other words to
very, very sensitive to being shut down in a matter of minutes - try to stockpile or guard against that isn’t any use?
the whole first-world life support system - the eggshell we live in.
Henry: Well, if you’re trying to save data, if you have it on
And that’s why I mentioned EMP over and over again. And now optical disk, CD disk, it has no effect on that.
look just what’s come out in the news. You may have noticed,
there’s even talk about EMP over America here. But they need to
know... The information that they gave out on the news as to Bill: But it would on a magnetic drive?
what the altitude this would have to take place at is very critical.
Henry: Magnetic drives, it might scramble some of it. but the
They’re saying on the news some ridiculous altitude for an EMP thing is, the microprocessors and the memory chips would be
pulse source, which is completely wrong, and it wouldn’t work. fried. And the power sources.
But the point is, that it's fine in this case that they’re giving the
wrong information out to the public. Kerry: You also have a way, though, of shielding, like building a
box or something...
The thing is, is that something like that can be created in
anyone’s garage. They just need to be able to have a small plane Henry: Oh, yeah.
and set it off and they can easily fly away. Mind you, their plane
would cease to function... a balloon, maybe? Kerry: ...out of aluminum foil, or something. I don’t know.
There’s no real explosion or anything, just a small one. It’s not an Henry: Yeah, it’s very simple to shield. But the thing is, without
explosive device so much as that it gives off a very powerful the infrastructure, you still don’t have the internet, etc.
pulse. That one pulse is enough to knock down pretty much
everything in the civilian world. Back to candles and horses.
Kerry: Right.
Kerry: When you say “knock down,” are you talking knock down
permanently? Or is it a temporary outage? Henry: So, I mean, you’ve got your local thing to read but that’s
it. Or you’ve got your short-wave radio communications
equipment that you can also shield or if you have vacuum tube
Henry: Yes. Shut down permanently. And this is not like that technology, it’s unaffected by that. So that’s why old systems,
thing that happened a few years back, that 2000-bug or whatever vacuum tube equipment, is completely immune to this type of
it was. I mean, we were preparing for that in the government thing. So are the older power plants that are not computer
systems, with typewriters and carbon-copy-paper and all that controlled.
stuff because we took it seriously then. But fortunately Y2K
didn’t happen.
Kerry: And what about cars? Weren’t you making a point about
cars?
But this is something that’s a much easier thing for someone to
do if they... It only takes an average person to make it happen. So
all of a sudden this has been popping up in my mind for some Henry: Well, anything up to the 1960s has a good chance of
reason and within a few days now it’s in the news. I don’t know working. Even the gasoline-powered ones, except for there’s a
how that happened. possibility that - a remote possibility - that maybe the spark coils
[laughs] because they will step up the voltages in the primaries, it
could burn out some of the spark coils in the engine
But what I’m saying is that that means that the grid would go compartments of some of the vehicles. But that’s, I say probably
down and pretty much permanently. I mean for a long period of only in the most intense fields. So just the newer vehicles. But
time. forget about getting fuel!
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Kerry: So you’re saying any vehicle made after the 1960s would financial collapse and crises, and the stressors people have to deal
be vulnerable. Is that what you’re saying? with.
Henry: 90% of them, yes. And then you’ve got people trying to protect their families and in
the process gathering materials at all cost from other sources,
Kerry: And what about diesel? Does having diesel make any including neighbors and other people. Religious beliefs are
difference? causing confusion and division as well. Religious leaders are
being bought-off by certain agencies - with the idea to help
control and manipulate the 'believers'. Having spiritual beliefs is
Henry: As long as it doesn’t have a computer controlled diesel important for many people, but be careful who you listen to... if
engine in it, then it’s fine. So you know, the old Rovers, or the they claim to have the answers. It is up to you.
old Valps that they had, like in, I think ir's in Sweden, they made
Valps. You can buy those. They would be very reliable. Any
military type of vehicle. So, you know you’ve got the collapse, the breakdown, in the
cities. Food supply deliveries and such, the psychological part of
that. Take some time and think of the domino effect - the
Michael: The old Willis Jeeps are fine. interactions and interdependencies of systems.
Henry: So it’s important to have a vehicle that... Or if you don’t Then you’ve got the manufactured and real threats of wars.
want to rely on a fuel, because then fuel’s a problem. Of course
I’m running my diesel car off of... I’ve been experimenting lately.
I’ve been running it off of pure sunflower oil. And it’s working And then you’ve got the possibility of a fake - a very strong
fine in the summertime. It wouldn’t work in the winter unless it possibility, very soon - of a fake invasion from outer space
was warmed first. That’s just an example. menaces that... Like Kerry, I don’t know what you saw. But that
may have been an example of one of the machines that was built
right here.
Bill: You can put some castor oil in there to actually help with it
as well.
Kerry: Oh yeah. It had the feeling of that, I have to admit,
although it was extremely high...
Henry: Anything to thin it out so it doesn’t congeal. But it would
be best to have a backup. Animal powered or people powered
things would be a good backup. Henry: Yeah. So with thousands of those being flown over cities
and highly populated areas, and then using the vast media, you
can do an awful lot of psychological damage and control - psyops
Kerry: Henry, is this definitely going to happen, in your opinion? - to a lot of people.
Henry: Well, there’s so many things converging that the Kerry: Right. But ultimately, what do you think the result of
probability is that at least half of them... half of hundreds of that’s going to be?
things are going to happen. So something definitely very harsh is
going to happen.
Henry: Then being able to control people, to maybe put them
into... ah...
I think that the harshest thing that’s going to happen is not even
going to... The harshest thing is not even... Again, the physical
thing is harshest, hard on most people. That’s what they fear Kerry: Camps?
most. But the harshest thing will be on the psychological scale,
not just one psychological thing but multiple psychological things Henry: Yes, exactly. Now, Switzerland... There’s something
converging on different planes, different levels, you know. On a going on. I’ve mentioned to you already, Kerry and Bill, I think,
three-dimensional space-time level and at much higher levels. that there’s something going on. I guess if you live there you
probably know this, that there’s something going on underground
Bill: You were saying about the different levels psychologically, in many places.
where people may have troubles or issues that pop up... So can
you give a really quick summary of like what you see the major Kerry: I mean, there’s no doubt about it, but the question is
traumas are? whether or not it’s a negative something. In other words, I think
that’s what’s... I mean, I think it’s a given that there’s
I mean, I would suspect at least one of them has to do with, as the development underground in Switzerland in many locations.
breakdown of the magnetic field happens on the Earth, like you
said, people start to get confused and that their minds don’t Henry: I don’t know if it’s negative or positive, but it’s being
operate properly any more, since we are electromagnetic in kept very quiet. I guess we're all outside the loop for that.
origin.
Michael: What I have noticed in Switzerland, driving in and out
But otherwise, what are the other items that you’re seeing? of it now for a few years... I’ve been in the US for 15 years and I
came back. In the last two to four years, I’ve noticed rapidly an
Henry: OK. Well I’m not saying that that’s what’s causing the increase in building of towers, radio communication towers. And
disorientation, but that may be one of the factors. But really I’ve heard of people telling me that the mood swings in
you’ve got the really down-to-Earth, so to speak, factors of Switzerland are pretty intense.
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Henry: Exactly. Henry: Yes. I don’t know. It would be nice to stay out of the
European Union, but at some point it won’t matter because the
Michael: This would lead me to believe that even the Swiss are borders will become somewhat meaningless.
not above it or below it, to conduct such psychological
experiments of how they can modulate the moods of people with Michael: That’s right. It won’t matter, but you have to understand
some sort of towers. I’ve just noticed that there are a lot of radio that the localities... I’ve looked into this carefully for a long time,
towers coming up along the highways and everywhere because I OK? I’ve been seeing this coming for 25 years at least.
watch out for that. I know what to look for.
The areas around Switzerland work actually just as that - as areas.
Bill: And they’re putting up cameras in all the public For instance, the Haute-Savoie works in such a way that the
transportation as well. region of Savoie - which would be the French part of Lake
Geneva - and the Swiss part of the lake work together as one area
Michael: Oh yes, yes, it’s huge. So Switzerland is not that great - more so than an area in Switzerland would work with another
in some... in some respects I’ve found that Switzerland has gotten area far away in Switzerland. You understand?
worse than when I knew it, say, 20 years ago.
Those are economic co-operation areas. The same with border
Kerry: Except for the mountains. If you get up in the mountains, areas between Germany and Switzerland, or the Black Forest. So
you can get away from all that you just work in areas that function as economic centers. And
from what I’ve researched, the southern part of Germany is
definitely the engine, the economic engine, of Europe.
Michael: Yes, that’s true.
Henry: Interesting.
Henry: I agree. As long as you’re in a valley area in a high
mountain area, but surrounded... A higher altitude area, but
surrounded by mountains, you know, on all sides - that would be Michael: So the southern part of Germany will definitely function
a good location. But you don’t want to be in the bottom of the for quite a while still. I mean, that’s why, for instance, I was told
valley. You’d want to be like half-way up on the side of the that in four years there would be not a single car here driving on
mountain. So, not in the bottom of any valley, but in a gasoline.
mountainous area.
And they’re very aware of what’s going on, and I think, knocking
As far as being able to shield yourself from something like that, I at a solution at a state level. By state level I mean, let’s say,
think the only practical way is to either be out of the area far Bavaria, or Baden-Württemberg, or Hesse - those are states in
enough or be very aware of it before you go into the situation. Germany. They run their own affairs, according to how they see
the economy and the climate changing. And they are very well
ahead of everybody else in solutions in what they want to do in
And as far as being able to detect this type of technology, I don’t the future. And they are acting on this already now.
think it’s practical to carry around equipment to do it. In fact,
some of it’s, I think, pretty much impossible to shield yourself
from it because it’s operating at, not microwave frequencies, Henry: I’m sure that.... Yes. Definitely.
which is what some of the stuff in the towns are using, are in the
gigahertz and above. Have you seen the science fiction movie? It’s something like...
What was it Michael, When Two Worlds Collide, or something?
But they’re also using ultra-low frequencies which are, like, close And people had to decide who was going to get on the ship to
to brainwave frequencies, very very low frequencies that you leave for the new planet? It’s an old movie.
cannot shield even if you go underground quite a ways. So even a
Faraday Cage wouldn’t work, and that’s... I’ve thought about Bill: Battlestar Galactica had the same a couple of times. That’s
that. a crazy shortage idea, isn’t it? When there’s a shortage of safety,
people can’t all come.
So the best solution is to be away from that as much as possible,
physically, and also stay aware. So if you pick a location, that’s, Henry: Yeah. As far as economic things go, I think... I don’t
like I said, that would be what I would be looking for. know how long money will work. And which currencies, I don’t
know. They’ll have to change a lot in the next few years, the
Michael: So we’re looking in and around Switzerland. OK? So it currencies and their values. But I think that...
would have an area that would also include some of the EU,
European Union, places, which would be much easier to access I had a feeling up until recently that it would be the Chinese
for US people. currency and some Asian currencies that might hold their
strength a little bit better than the western ones. The Swiss
Henry: OK. currency is a mystery to me. Any usury-based financial system
will fail in today’s world.
Michael: I mean easier whether they have money or not, is what I
mean. As far as currencies, I’ve pulled out, to some degree, out of fiat
currency into of course what Michael had suggested, quite a few
years ago, seeing things coming. But unfortunately most of it’s
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locked up in dollars and I’m not quite sure what direction to go Michael: OK. That site is really the one. Plus you can even look
with that. at Financial Times a little bit. In London. They are lately a lot
more up to date of what’s going on. In the commentary section
Michael: Well the best is just to have it in gold, physical gold. they actually do let certain journalists comment on what’s really
And I have solutions here, very practical, in Frankfurt and in going on, according to them. So it’s amazing to see that
Switzerland both, where we can do it really easy. Financial Times actually talks in a lot more critical way about
what is happening.
Here in Germany you can go to a bank, they give you a lot of red
tape because they want to control who owns the gold. Whereas, Henry: I’ve followed Kitco for quite a few years, and that’s about
at other banks, they are very cooperative and let you have it right it. So...
over the counter there and then at spot price.
Michael: Yes well Kitco is one of the base sources of the charts
So this varies a lot from bank to bank. Those are house policies. that Jim Sinclair uses in his website.
Then there come laws from country to country. So there is no
homogenized law in Europe about this. Henry: And gold, in the end, gold may have some other value,
but as far as... You can’t eat it or anything, so then comes the
But I know where to get it legally without any trouble. You just thing with the bartering ideas as well if you need to go to that.
come here and we do it here. I don’t want to explain it over the Unless you’ve in an isolated area which is self-sufficient... you
internet, OK? don’t do much bartering, I guess.
Henry: Yes. Are you aware of what’s happening right now, in the Bill: Or you create a community currency.
United States today, as far as the economic, the banking system?
Henry: So I guess what we’re talking about is holding value for a
Michael: Generally I am well aware. Yes. The best website that future time.
you can check in, Today’s News, is that Paulsen said, and this
was expected, that they would take over IndyMac, all the Macs, Michael: Well, you see, gold - and silver to some extent - both
all of it. They will basically just nationalize it. Of course they are going to be currency as well as commodity. Gold anyway is
don’t call it nationalizing it. They call it... whatever the word. currency. But silver to some degree might also come in as a little
You know, they have a good way with words. But essentially currency, a mini-currency for smaller communities.
they’re going to take it over.
Bill: I would suggest that we would re-monetize simply because
Henry: They’re telling people on ABC news and such to not, of the fact there isn’t enough gold....
please don’t go for bank runs. You know, don’t take your money
out, that everything will be OK. [laughs] Michael: Yes.
Michael: And that’s the way to have the bank run happen. Yes. Henry: There’s not enough for the population. But then, that’s the
other thing - what will the population be in ten years? I’m afraid
Henry: This is major news. to say. I don’t want to say. I’d like to say it’s going to be about
what it is now instead of some doom and gloom thing, which is
Michael: Yeah, I know. I heard it this morning. I was watching at what people are pushing for - a drastic cut in population. There’s
6 in the morning. Yes, I’m with it. I was actually watching in the a desire on the part of certain organizations to cut the population
hotel. I have no television. I never watch television, but from quite a bit, as we know. So... or we’ve heard.
time to time in hotels I like to see what the people are being told.
And it’s quite amazing to see the version told to people of the So as far as planning for this, I think to stay focused on finding a
version I know. good location, planning for what’s needed, making a list of
everything that’s needed so that you don’t miss some very key
Anyway, there is a website you want to stay in touch with, if you important things.
can write it down. It’s the website by Jim Sinclair. It’s spelled
www.jsmineset.com. Also, medical and dental help, medical facilities, dental facilities,
medical supplies, you know, that sort of... Oh, for those who are
Anyway, that one guy and his team of traders, gold traders, on medications such as SSRIs, antidepressants - wean yourself
currency traders, they really have a clue and they give very off of them. For those who feel dependent on other powerful
valuable commentary. I’ve been watching their site for about four meds - do the same. There are many reasons for this. Consider
years now. They have been highly accurate throughout about this a priority for you. Take some time and gather a bit of
everything that they comment on. They have the best charts, knowledge about plants for food and health.
graphics, everything about currencies, metals, commodities, just
the whole thing. Plus commentary on what’s going on and what Kerry: One thing that you could do in the future, or the near
the media is reporting. future, is send us any information that you have, or link us to
information that you think we should include on our website for
Henry: I have it now. I have it bookmarked. other people to, you know. In other words, as you say...
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Henry: I’d definitely order the disk that I sent you in the last I mean, of course, Germany... the Germans were given some bits
couple of days. It won’t take any time to do that. They mail that and pieces of the technology to put some of this together.
out. Unfortunately, the people that gave it to them realized they’d
made a big mistake - and they weren’t so intelligent after all even
Kerry: So you’re saying that contains most of what we need? though they may have been advanced. They didn’t follow the
prime directive, I guess you might say, of non-interference.
[laughs]
Henry: ...ah ...I haven’t gone through it because it’s quite a vast
database, a reconstruction database, so if high tech systems - if
and when they shut down - you’ll be able to put everything back Michael: I meant to ask you a question about that. Do you think
together again, except in a better way. So it’s something a group, that sightings in Mexico in January 2005, was that fake or was
a global group, has put together over a period of time. That’s a that real? Do you remember, all these lights they were showing
start right there. And the disks are being distributed free on the on Mexican television?
internet to anyone who needs them.
Henry: I don’t remember exactly that, but I know that some of
Kerry: That’s very interesting. We’ll pass that along to everyone the things, like the ones that have to do with lights, basically, not
so everyone can order one and so on. the physical things, but more lights, that’s nothing to do with the
type of things... That has nothing to do with the limited
technology that the governments would be utilizing, so to speak.
Henry: There’s so much. It really takes a... It’s interesting to be
able to try to get the people together that you really need to kind
of do the planning without it turning into a big mess. There are Bill: OK.
fear factors. We all know that you can end up with a community
or group of people that could... where one might be too Henry: That’s advanced beyond the normal-day human thing.
dominating, or like that, or... Instead of having a group that just That’s not part of the attacks and fake attack scenario.
works as a team with no really one strong leader, but just a
symbiotic type of... Bill: But this plan is pretty real and pretty probable, as I seem to
be hearing you saying.
Kerry: Community.
Henry: Yeah. Yeah. They’ve just been playing around with it.
Henry: Yeah. The only way it could really work right... But the playing time is pretty much coming to an end very shortly
here. It’s time that the testing phase is almost done.
Kerry: And not as personalities but more as caring, sharing
beings. Bill: Wow. And these are real craft, not holograms? Or would
they use holographic technology as well?
Henry: Yeah. Each person has something that’s essential and
some aspect, so it’s kind of like one body that’s, you know, in a Henry: Real physical craft. Hologram technology exists, but that's
sense, working with many arms and minds and such. quite limited still. It was John Lear that said... but I’m sorry. It
may have happened, but that’s just not... No. Why would other
Bill: I’ve got a couple of detail questions which I just wonder if I groups that have gone through all the trouble of doing the
could just ask. It’s the kind of thing I would ask you if we were physical aspect of that whole scene back in September 2001...?
sitting around a table. And they may be simple ones for you to
answer. One is when you said that... I can’t remember the words As far as the borders are concerned, it’s just that they will kind of
you used, but you said that the borders would become something become meaningless when people are just in the survival mode
like not so relevant, or not so strong, or more permeable or and things are breaking down and the borders disappear, you
something like that. And that interested me. I wondered if you know.
could speak to that.
Bill: Like the border guards aren’t even there because they’re
And the other question is just one for my own curiosity. When taking care of their own situation, and everything’s....
you talked about the faked alien invasion. Do we really have that
many of our own craft? And you felt very strongly that that Henry: Yeah. The borders shut down, so at that point it doesn’t
would happen. I’ve never heard you say that before. matter, you know. Just remember - the real problems are
generated in the mind. If you can train your mind, you have your
Henry: Oh yeah. To answer the last, the second question, is: we island of light - your safe spot.
have more than you... I don’t know how many that we have, but
we have more than you could... You’d be very surprised. Bill: Got it.
Everyone would be very surprised.
Henry: But before that time, I mean, in the next... I can’t say
But they’ve been going... They’ve been around for many when. From here until that time, the borders are going to...
decades, you know, so we’re talking about a long period. We’re There’s going to be a lot of... much, much greater difficulty in
talking about - in our era - they were around for many decades, going from country to country. Some countries. And so, as
since just before World War II, definitely. you’ve probably experienced, Bill, just going into the United
States, it’s not as friendly an experience as it was.
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Bill: Regarding taking data off the hard drive, are you saying that Look, I’m going to stop monopolizing this conversation, but
would be done covertly, or would it be done by saying, Give me thanks for picking up those details. And is there anyone else who
your computer, we need to take it all off your drive? really wants to say anything here besides, really, many thanks for
being here in every way.
Henry: Well, that’s the next step that’s starting right now, is
overtly. Henry: Getting hold of the mass... being able to use the mass
media which most people use - the television - to be able to
Bill: Overtly. OK. utilize that tool, is one of the most powerful things, physically, I
think. And some of the major networks, apparently, are starting
to open up a little bit now, too, and not be so conventional, which
Henry: Either it’s: Open it up and let’s take a look at what’s on is a little bit promising. Anyway, I don’t know what to say...
there. Or if they want to they go to the next level and they just
take it for a few hours and go through your system, then give it
back to you... hopefully give it back to you after they‘ve taken Kerry: Well, actually Henry, I think you’ve said quite a bit, and
what they need, or tried to take what they need, off. That’s in the we appreciate it a lot.
Christian Science Monitor in the last 24 hours.
Henry: Well thank you for letting me be there with you, except I
Bill: Yeah. We’ll check that out. If you had your data on an didn’t get to have anything to drink. [laughter]
external disk in your luggage, presumably that’s something that
then they wouldn’t necessarily know about. Michael: Well thank you very much, OK? And you’re welcome
here.
Henry: Well, if you put it on a CD...
Henry: I feel like I almost did have it. Just being... I feel like I’m
Bill: On a CD, right. there. I feel... It’s uplifting.
Henry: A CD is mainly plastic with some foil inside. There are Kerry: And please take care of yourself.
all kinds of things you can use. Probably, what you call it, SD
cards, or smaller, mini-SDs. But then that’s... Again, use freeware Henry: Thank you. all of you.
software that makes the storage medium look like an empty disk.
It's readily available. Henry: Just make sure if you transcribe - that you don’t add any
adjectives to it or anything. No embellishments and that’ll be
Bill: Got it. Thank you... fine.
I think, though, that actually the whole point of what we’ve been Bill: No, just straight. Just for a record of all the questions and
discussing here is about that, actually, in my view. Because I answers because there’s been a lot of really important
think - to that point of what we can do for 6 billion people, and information here. And I couldn’t remember it because I haven’t
maybe not for 6 billion immediately - but the real power, and this been taking notes.
is the part which is I think challenging, is that the power is in
organization. Henry: This has all been a very rough outline, of course.
Remember - train and prepare your mind and your hearts - then
I mean, if you look at what we talk about, what is life. Right? It’s all else will be easy for you.
an organism. Right? Or it’s an organization or it’s something
that’s organized. And that’s something that people, they need OK. Well, have a good day, everyone. I’m going to get some rest.
help to do. I’ve been up for quite a long time.
And I think that’s the real value here about starting to look at Kerry: All right. Take care.
these projects that we’re discussing. It’s about really helping
people to find a way to organize themselves in a cohesive and
sensible fashion that will help everyone involved. [END]
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Project Camelot:
George Green Telephone Interview Transcript
2 September 2008
Let me explain how this works. Let’s say that the government
issued a Promissory Note, or a bond, in effect. It was a one-year
US Treasury note. And they also issued a 5-year Treasury note.
The 5-year notes don’t even count as debt until five years. So
what is going to come online is all the short-term paper that’s
happened in the last 6 months.
As you know, the government came forth with 60-day notes, 90-
day notes. They all come to a head on September 30th. That’s the
point where ... not only September 30th from that date ... but it
also is the escalation of all of the adjustable-rate mortgages in the
United States, too. So that’s gonna accelerate the decline in the
real estate, because peoples’ interest rates are gonna go up to the
current rates, which are roughly around 7 to 7.5 percent.
K: OK. So what does that mean, though? I mean, from your

vantage-point, are we talking about one day in which everything
crashes? Or are we talking about sort of an ongoing scenario
A 35 minute telephone interview in which George discusses the that’s already started a while back?
economy, the Russian military, the probability of war with Iran,
and the need for The Ground Crew to pull together and get
organized for difficult times ahead. Recognizing that things are G: No. What it amounts to is an ongoing scenario. They’re not
moving fast and changing almost daily, George has asked us to gonna crash everything on that day. They’re gonna try to roll
phone him in a few days' time after he's had a chance to talk over the debt into the next year. But what happens on September
further with some of his own insider contacts in Washington and 30th, they gotta come clean with all the debt that they have
elsewhere to discover more about possible and probable covert because they’re gonna roll it over.
plans.
In other words, it’s like, what the government’s trying to do now
Start of Conversation is sell our debt, as you know, to a lot of foreign countries. And so
are businesses doing the same thing, trying to get rid of their
obligations they have here. That, you know, is all the unwinding
Kerry Cassidy: So, George, it’s great to talk to you. How’re you of the real estate empire, as we talked about.
doing today?
And what does happen at this minute, because September 30th is
George Green: I’m doing fine, thank you. that important date, is all of these debts that are gonna be set up
are gonna fall on the hands of the new President, whoever we
K: This is a Project Camelot phone call with George Green. And have. You know, I might have told you before, the Rockefellers
we want to update everyone on what’s happening, according to want Obama in.
George, who’s always got his finger on the pulse of, certainly the
economic situation, and sometimes even the spiritual. So George, So what we have to look at is, then, what is going to occur with
can you tell me what is going on? the rest of the world? And if the world looks at how much debt
has been put into motion, and we’ve exported all of our jobs, then
We’re going to do a follow-up call here with Benjamin Fulford in the escalation of the collapse of the dollar will come in, even
about a day or so. And he’s making statements about September though the Feds themselves are advancing over 2 billions dollars
30th being some kind of very important day in which the US is a day to keep this thing afloat.
supposed to come clean on what they owe... and
And the “Plunge Committee”, which is 8 members of the Federal
G: Well, September 30th ends our fiscal year. The government Reserve on the floor of the Exchange, are the ones that are
declares all kinds of numbers to everybody, like what their debt manipulating the market on a world basis right now. And most of
is. But they only tell you what is due this year. So you only have, the other countries are well aware of this, Kerry.
as we are speaking, only 28 or 29 days left to this month. On the
30th, the next day begins the fiscal year of next year and that will K: Well, this is outrageous. One of the things that Ben Fulford is
show some of the debt. going to be saying, or has actually published in a Rense article – I
don’t know if you’ve heard it – is that the money has to go back
to what is so-called “rightful owners”. And the cabal that is
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basically behind the scenes running the world is asking for the So this is going to be a real unwinding in the next 30 days,
US to come clean on their debt on September 30th? If they don’t, frankly.
they’re threatening to impose martial law on the US and launch
WWIII. Now, does this sound logical? Or is this ... I would rather have this conversation this coming Friday because
I have some people inside, you know, inside the Beltway, that
G: Well, let’s come to what martial law is. Number one, we have would be able to bring me up to date. Because everybody’s
a major problem that’s happening. Let’s take California, for pulling their hair out, frankly, in Washington; they don’t know
instance. They’ve got the state... the Governor over there has put what’s happening.
everybody on minimum wage and put a freeze on new hiring,
because they don’t have a budget. K: Well, what about China? I mean, we’d be happy to talk to you
this Friday, or next week, whatever works for you. But what
Well, when it comes down to the United States, our military is about China? Because we understand that China and Russia are
based on having money into the budget. Well, if Congress doing war games.
doesn’t declare money for the military to operate, obviously we
have to go someplace. G: That’s right. Exactly. Russia and China are both doing exactly
that.
Now, if he calls on a national emergency, that’s supposing that
everybody across the United States, all the military people, will And what is becoming is, the United States is notifying
stand up. But if they’re not getting paid, what do you think’s everybody over there they want to put all of their missile sites
gonna happen? Massive chaos, Kerry. surrounding Russia. And, of course, Putin, et al, are saying, No
we’re not gonna do that. And they’re warning everybody, you
And that’s what we’re looking at. The people that started the know. Putin has already warned Bush and stuff: You do that,
militia movement several years ago across the United States... and... Russia’s on high alert right at this minute, all over the
most of those people have gone by the wayside, because there’s place.
nobody out here to stand up for our country.
K: So, do you think that we’re going to go to war before the
Now, you’re talking about what could occur? I mean, why did election?
they build these enemy prisoner of war camps? Why are the UN
troops all over the United States? And they’ll probably be G: It makes a lot more sense to do that and then they’d have a
activated to act as the police for what you’re talking about right spillover, then, to McCain, etc. But then also, in that case, if they
now. If they could do it. get the war going, then the repercussions go where they could
suspend the Constitution. We wouldn’t have another election.
My feeling is, because of what the Bank for International You’d have Bush out there, king of the day.
Settlements, which is run by the Rothschilds -- it’s the 13
families control the world’s money -- got permission and got it in K: OK. How much chance do you think that’s going to happen?
writing from Bush, allowing them to audit the Federal Reserve.
Now, that event will occur as soon as Bush gets out of office.
That means anytime after November, frankly. G: I don’t ... well, that’s a possibility. That’s under the FEMA
rules. Immediately, if we have any kind of national emergency,
i.e., an earthquake in California, or we have a war going on, it’s
So I don’t think September 30th is gonna cause a big meltdown. I his prerogative to call a national emergency and suspend the
am concerned about the first 90 days of next year. And then the Constitution.
Rothschilds will find out how much money has been gone ...
because it’s a money thing with them. You know, it’s their ego.
They’ve allowed this Federal Reserve franchise to basically For the first 30 days, he’s in control. Then after that there’s a UN
create money out of thin air and encumbered the entire world. mandate that the UN takes it over. So we would be controlled by
The whole world’s involved with this meltdown. the UN, the head of the UN. That brings it in to... the second-in-
command at the United Nations is, and always has been, a
Russian.
K: OK. Well, do you see something happening? Because we’re
getting a lot of our sort of behind the scenes, black project,
witnesses coming forward to us and saying something is set to K: So what would that mean for the US? Are you talking about
happen in October. Maybe even the first ten days. Russia? I mean, if the UN is in control and a Russian’s in control
of the UN, then [Russia] controls the US?
G: Well, that’s a possibility and I think more likely is that we’re
gonna get the war started against Iran. Our military is all building G: Yeah. What it comes back down to is, the New World Order is
up right now to go after Iran, this so-called nuclear thing, in order nothing more than a socialist dictatorship controlled by the small
to cause this unrest. inner controlling group. And they have plans to issue a New
World currency, a New World everything, ‘cause that’s ... even,
you know, the Georgia Guidestones is evidence of that.
Meanwhile, the Soviets have sent -- and this is just in the last two
days -- have sent over their nuclear scientists. And the Soviets
also signed a 2 billion dollar deal with India to provide them with And if you talk to people overseas, they’re all aware of it. I just
the new long-range missiles that they have over there. had a phone call that just came in within the last half hour from
Holland. And they’re all concerned because Russia now is
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threatening to, you know, knock off all the oil, and all the energy question as to what is this game that we’re all playing and how
supplies to Europe if they don’t bend. Now, that could cause do we wake people up to what’s happening?
major calamities.
And they’re under total control now. Everybody’s under total
K: Right. And Europe just kind of gave in just now, saying control of just a few people up here that are just running our
they’re not going to impose sanctions, isn’t that right, because of country. And this election farce is exactly what it is. It doesn’t
the gas? make any difference who we get up there because the ant-hill is
still there. The heads of the ant-hill are still... they can’t do
G: That’s right. I mean, what would you do, if you knew your anything more than what the rest of Congress can allow them to
energy situation was going down? Well, that doesn’t go well for do.
the planners behind the scenes, because they’re got to get WWIII
going. Because behind all of this is the population increase on the K: So who is behind the scenes? I mean, Benjamin Fulford is
planet. It’s all part of their population-reduction scheme. And basically saying that China is going to create what is a One
control of the populace. And by all of the money. World government and that they will be put in place by 2020, and
that they’re... he’s actually saying they’re a beneficent ruler. I
Look at all of the jobs and everybody that’s been exported out of find that extremely hard to believe. But at any rate, what do you
the United States. They admit that roughly 90 percent of the feel about China? We’ve got Henry Deacon, on the other hand,
corporations in the United States don’t pay taxes because they’ve saying that China and the US are actually behind the scenes
exported all their jobs. I mean, even what I call a stalwart working together on all this.
company like Hershey candy has just exported its company to
Mexico for production of Hershey bars. G: China? I have their military documents. And they want the
West to go ahead and get on with this war. And they’re already
So you’re looking at the demise of the United States. What are mapping out... remember, they have agreements with Canada, so
we gonna produce and how can we work on some kind of a they get all their food up there. They worked out this ahead. And
trade? And what system’s gonna happen? what they’re saying behind the scenes is, Look, it’s 5,000 years --
it’s our turn to rule the world.
The only thing they can do right now, as maybe Benjamin’s
gonna talk about... because we have a bankrupt currency. The rest But they want to get the West to go ahead and do its fighting with
of the world knows it. The only thing that we’ve been doing is Russia because we’re the two major nuclear powers. But the head
using our so-called strength against all these people, and say Hey, of China told Bush, he says, You don’t know how many nuclear
you’re gonna do it or we’ll attack. Well, unfortunately, Russia weapons we have. Which is true. And so you have to look at that
has enormous nuclear capability and we know it. same thing.
K: So is going to war with Iran basically, for all intents and Now, we know what Russia has because our engineers assisted
purposes, going to war with Russia? And some people say that Russia in improving all of their technology in the last few years.
the reason... because of that, we’re not actually going to do it. So that’s... they’re way ahead of us, frankly, about ten or eleven
years, on the nuclear stuff. They have the best space program.
Their space vehicles go up and rescue our astronauts if they get
G: Well, don’t count on it. Remember, they’ll have somebody lost up in space.
else go against Iran. And probably, because of the different
threats, they might have Israel, which... its whole military is our
equipment, so you know that if they go after ’em, it’s ours. And So people have to come to understand. It’s, you know, less in
we’ve agreed by our various treaties with Israel that if they go population. They have problems over there. There’s no doubt
after something, we’ll support ‘em in their efforts. So about it. There’s more billionaires in Moscow than any other city
automatically we’re drawn into it, no matter what happens. in the world right now.
K: But you must... I mean, you have lots of secret contacts. I So what we’re looking at is, what’s really happening? And what
mean, to be honest, I don’t know if you can come out and say it, play is happening that the American people can recognize and
but you must have been told that certain things are under way. look at? And now the American people are being, frankly,
strangled to death by all the high costs.
G: Well, the information that I have, Kerry, right now, is that
their WWIII is still in the planning right now and I think And yeah, oil is down a little bit. But you know what? OPEC had
Benjamin will say it. I was expecting them to have something their meeting and they said they’re not gonna let it go below $100
going before the end of September, even before September 30th. a barrel. Well, my sources are saying production cost, the actual
physical production cost right now, is like $80 a barrel. And it’s
not that we can’t get more oil, but it costs more to get it out of the
The fiscal year thing is just something that most people won’t be ground. That’s the problem.
aware of, because they don’t understand money anyway. Even
the World Bank can’t give you a definition of what money is.
We’re gonna be stuck with these prices. We have oil right now,
which is further causing the problem all the way down to the
So if they can’t tell you, the International Monetary Fund can’t foods we have in the United States. Ninety percent of the cost of
tell you what money is and the World Bank can’t tell you -- and the vegetables in the stores right now is due to energy.
that’s by their own books, and I have them -- then we have a
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K: OK. So are we looking at food shortages going into October be attending that. That’s the silver conference and the gold and
and November? Or is this something down the line next year? silver miners of the world.
G: I think we’re gonna have food shortages right away, and Forget about Japan saying OK, we had... there’s a lot of people
you’re probably looking at October and November. And look at that say that Japan got all the gold that went over to the
the prices of stuff right now. It’s almost doubled in price. And I Philippines. But that’s not true. Some of it went that way but
talked to the owner of a whole chain of supermarkets and he’s others went into other peoples’ hands.
saying he can’t guarantee prices past this month, September, he
said, because of what they’re adding, all these fuel charges and But we’re not creating it. You know, we’re getting gold out of the
excess things that’re happening all the way around. ground right now. They’re using it all. But there’s still not
enough, according to what they’re saying, that’s gonna make a
And look at the airlines. They’re cutting down on all their flights. big difference when you come down to physical gold.
Even though they’re still going, they’re still cutting down on the
flights to different places. Where the problem is, there’s so much paper gold. That’s all the
options on the market and the... even Kitco, and Monex, and all
K: OK. Well, do you think that the Japanese... according to the rest of them, if they issue paper, doesn’t necessarily mean that
Benjamin, Japanese gold is going to flood the market. Have you they own it because they buy an option or a position in the
heard that? market.
G: No. I haven’t heard about that. There’s only so much gold out So that’s where the problem comes in on the big central banks
here. And the problem is the derivative market, people buying on when they tell and say, Hey, we’re gonna short gold. In other
options. There’s so many shorts by the three major banks right words, they’re gonna sell gold that they don’t own, hoping that
now, they’re gonna have to cover themselves right now. they’re gonna buy it. And that’s what the market is right now,
hoping they’re gonna be able to buy this back later. But there’s
So even though gold is down at this minute, it’s what I call an no gold that’s physically available in any quantities.
opportune time to look at it. It may go down a little bit more. But
it’s gotta come back up again, because it’s one of the world I mean, I’m sitting here trying to buy a half-a-million dollars
currencies. worth of gold right now. You know what I got offered? Sixty
thousand dollars’ worth! [Kerry laughs] And this is in the gold
I mean, we can play with the Japanese yen or the Swiss franc or market! Seriously.
all the rest of ‘em, but basically gold and silver are storages of
wealth. Silver has more advantages because it’s used in medicine; K: So what’s going to happen to that? Is gold going up in price?
it’s used in a lot of things, you know, in the electrical industry,
more than gold is. But at this minute, from the historical G: Oh, it’s gonna turn back around again. It’s another one of
standpoint, gold is still gonna be a place, like I say, for the these things -- we’ll plunge it down because of the paper market,
storage of wealth. again.
And I think you mentioned the French coming out with their new That’s where the option markets are killing all of the
coins. Well, the French have always had gold coins but the world commodities. Not only that, it’s oil, corn, all of the things that the
hasn’t been paying much attention to ‘em right now. But I guess speculators that are having money -- what I call the greedy
the French are gonna start issuing ‘em too. But that has to come people, that all they want to do is make money on peoples’ ...
right out of their treasury. It’s like our gold coins, the American
eagle. We’re not making ‘em right now. That’s because of the
availability of gold. What’s happening? In other words, if you can get a loaf of bread
for a dollar and we can tell you that we’re gonna guarantee you
that you can get that thing for a dollar in a year... and they do this
So where is all this gold? When I go out and try to buy some gold by the options back to the farmers. And the farmers need some
right now, there’s a wait for me to get it, a couple weeks at least, money, so they get advances against these things. It’s all paper.
to get ahold of some pieces of gold. That’s telling me that there’s
something wrong. If the world gold has this much...
Well, the paper shuffle, because of what has happened to the real
estate empire, is all coming apart, and it’s all coming apart at
Now, I know that a couple tons of gold was moving between the what they call the end of the fiscal year, which is also affecting
major banks, and that’s how they keep track of “arms and drugs”, the stock market. So the stock market, then, is gonna have to
that it’s moving, because that’s the element that they use for come up to bat and tell people what’s really going on.
payment.
Kerry, here’s the situation. Let’s say you had a hundred shares of
K: Well, isn’t it possible that they’re actually, you know, buying IBM today. I’m just using that as an illustration, right? OK. You
up the gold right now because they’ve driven the price down so bought a hundred shares, or you had a hundred shares you wanted
low, so they’re hoarding it? to sell. Either way, it didn’t make any difference. When you sold
those shares, do you think that that determined the price of all the
G: No. No. They can’t. We’re having the conference here in other 20 million shares that was outside? That’s what it did,
about two weeks of all the major mining companies. I’m gonna though. In other words, all you need is a few shares of stock to be
traded at some figure and they arbitrarily then say all the rest of
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them are worth that. And that’s all gonna be coming unraveled for a whole hour on ETs and spacecraft. And they’re all over the
this next year. Because, what is the real worth of a company? planet right now. I mean, we’re kind of being visited by a lot of
people. They want to see... the extraterrestrials want to see what
K: OK. So, are we talking about a stock market crash a la 1929 or we’re doing.
worse?
Those scenarios, though, that are done behind the scenes, those
G: Worse. are... again, we’re being monitored by the ETs.
K: Worse. I mean, when? When are you saying? The information that I’m getting from them is basically that the
bad guys on the planet have won at this point and we’d better get
together with other people of like minds and get into small cities.
G: Well, that could come up at any time, because I’m concerned Actually, get on an Indian reservation, because they know how to
that when the rest of the...I mean, look, I don’t know why China get themselves going. And eventually at some point the northern
and Japan, which themselves... the two of them together own, hemisphere is gonna be a nuclear wasteland.
what, about 2.5 trillion dollars of our debt, right? If they take the
dollar and they’re trying to figure a way to move this piece of
paper that is Monopoly money into something that’s real... K: So that’s what you’re getting. That’s unequivocal?
Well, they’re finding out that the stock market’s not real. People G: I got that from the ETs themselves, that they’ve advised...
that are in the stock market right now... I mean, in real reality, 60
percent of all stocks that are traded right now are in mutual funds K: Wow!
or are peoples’ retirement accounts. Sixty percent. And they don’t
have any voting rights. G: They said at some point, because we will have a nuclear...
because the winds go from the North Pole to the Equator, Kerry,
So now we have the traders playing within a small range. And and they don’t spill over to the southern hemisphere.
people like David Rockefeller, between his trust and his banking
connections, own 4.5 percent of 90 percent of the world’s K: Well, what about places like Europe and, you know, the rest
corporations. Now that’s kind of... If you look at the interlocking of the world?
board of directors of the, you know, the major people that we’re
looking in the world, you find out that they’re all connected in
some way. G: We’re talking about the whole northern hemisphere. The
radiation winds will be going all the way around. But I think
that’s a little ways out yet, I’m hoping. Kind of like the two
So they’re manipulating the whole game to keep themselves nuclear missiles that were dropped last year, you know, in Syria,
alive. They could care less about the people on the street. It’s basically. The Israelis sent up two planes. These were low-yield,
only themselves and their assets. But they’re getting really killed what they call “bunker-buster” nuclear bombs. If they go after
right at the moment because their assets are coming apart. Iran, they’re gonna use some bigger ones to go after this stuff,
and that’s gonna affect things.
K: OK. So it’s a pretty dire story out there.
And radiation... I’ve got a doctor that’s gonna be giving me a
G: It’s gloomy. It’s very gloomy. bunch of information on what the radiation is doing. Well, even
the radiation because of the depleted uranium that’s in Iraq, how
K: Can I ask you something? We’ve been also told that there it’s affecting people over here. And we’re getting that radiation in
could be what’s called a “false flag alien invasion” scenario in the air that’s going around the planet right now.
the wind for some time, possibly October, maybe next year. Have
you heard anything about that? K: Yeah, right. It blows up to Europe, I understand.
G: Oh, I’ve heard about that. But the ET connections I have say G: Yeah, Europe. And it’s coming with all our military troops
that they’re not gonna be invading us at all for some time and that that are coming back. And their children they’re having now are
cycle of the so-called invasion, or making themselves available, being deformed. I think you know about that. There’s videos and
is probably four years out. You know, the 2012 scenario. stuff out on that. We published a book. It’s called Bringing the
War Home, which goes into all the biologicals and uranium
K: But the fake alien invasion. In other words, your ET contacts things that have happened.
are telling you that they’re not even going to do a fake alien
invasion? Or they are? K: Wow. OK. We don’t want to keep you for a real long time
here. I know you’ve got tons of stuff you’re doing. But Bill has a
G: No. Well, the aliens aren’t gonna do it. If our government... few questions, don’t you Bill?
K: I mean the government. Bill Ryan: I do. Thank you. I’ve been listening to this in the front
row with a great deal of interest, and I’ve got a few questions. Let
me fire them at you in a little agenda, and I’ll remind you of them
G: I don’t think they’re prepared for that right now. However, the later.
other night... it was interesting. I think it was NBC had a feature
97
Right at the start you made a reference to the atmosphere in had no experience whatsoever. And then, like I am... I remind
Washington, implying -- I can’t remember the words you used -- them that when I was asked to be the finance chairman for Jimmy
there was a lot of concern and confusion. And it would be very Carter, he was a one-term governor in Georgia.
interesting to hear a little bit more about that.
So you have to look at these things. The experience is not
We’d like to ask about your personal plans, if you’re willing to necessarily... as what is their agenda and what have they agreed
disclose them. Because a lot of people are watching to see to do behind the scenes? And I’ve been trying to find that out
whether you’re, so to speak, as good as your word and heading since they put her out there, because it’s obviously... nobody
off the Ecuador and staying there because of all the reasons you knows all the facts about this game yet. And I expect that a lot of
explained in our earlier interview. it will be coming out in the next ten days.
We’d love to know who’s going to be the next President of the B: If you were a betting man, would you bet on Obama? I think
United States. you mentioned it earlier.
And we wondered if you had a final message for the Ground G: Yeah, I did. I’d bet on Obama.
Crew.
And you’re also asking me... yes, I have made arrangements to
And so, that’s my little agenda there. What’s happening in head south. My information I get from the ETs, though, has told
Washington as far as your sources are able to tell you -- the guys me to hold tight right now, basically stay at the minute, because...
in the agencies, the good guys in the military? What are they like me, I’ve got three lectures to do next week and I’ve got a
concerned about and what are they worried about now? couple other places across country. I’m trying to wake up enough
people so they can understand a much bigger picture. So at some
G: Most of our military are doing their duty for our country, as point I can head off down to Ecuador.
you know. But there’s a lot of them that have their agenda
because they have this military... there was talk about having a B: Yeah. We want to help you as best we can in waking up as
military coup. You probably heard about that last year. Just many people who’re able to listen to the kinds of things that
taking over our government and making it a military dictatorship, we’re all trying to say here. Inasmuch as you refer to the Ground
if you want to look at it that way; or re-plan the whole Crew earlier, do you have a final message for them that we can
Constitution and get things going. help you state here, clearly, for anyone who is listening right
now?
The congressmen in Washington are basically manipulated by the
Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, all G: No. The messages we had... you know, I get people from all
these people. It’s all the money. It’s kind of like Aaron Russo’s over the world calling me on that. And the messages are, is to get
movie, you know, From Freedom to Fascism. together with other people, to try to at least have a
communication going on. You cannot believe how many agendas
The congressmen are... the political parties are basically small that are happening to try to stomp down any kind of
corporations. These small corporations have put these people into communication that says, Hey, there’s something else going on.
office, like the new lady from Alaska which, you know, she
comes from a town of what, 5,500 people? And this is what And what we’re looking at is that the groups that are forming --
they’re bringing up. you know, I’ve got groups that are a hundred; some of them are
three; some of them are ten -- and they’re breaking up because
Well, that’s where the confusion is that’s coming up now. Who they’re finding out the responsibility of... once they wake up to
has put her into that position and what is the reason behind? And what is really happening on the planet, the responsibility of
I can’t... like I say, it’s a little early in the day for me to find out. transmitting that information to their family, who then thinks
And I tried to call earlier today for my inside sources to come they’re totally nuts anyway, because the world is OK for them
forth with it. But they happen to be in Congress, I mean in this week.
meetings, right now. What I’m getting there is, I won’t get any
information there until Friday or so. It’s when the economic thing starts really coming apart, and we
get the war going... as the chaos increases, then that’s when it’s
B: We’d love to talk to you then. gonna happen.
G: I’ll let you know what they’re talking, you know, behind the So I don’t... other than the people that you’re helping, getting the
scenes, not what’s in the paper, because you know the papers just information... And a lot of them are getting the information. They
put out what they’re supposed to. get it. You know, they go to my website and they’re downloading
the basic three books on it to get them going.
K: Well, have you got any, you know, intuitions? Or have your
ET contacts said anything about Palin in particular? And my lectures, and what you people are doing, in order to
assist people, to give them information so they can try to put the
pieces together... ‘cause there’s many pieces going together, and I
G: No, they haven’t said anything about Palin at all. My other don’t have ‘em all. I have a lot because of my connections that
sources are just... what I’m getting from Europe as well as other are still around. And they’re concerned, they themselves, because
people calling me, they can’t believe that they put somebody that they’re making arrangements to get out of Dodge, so to speak.
98
And they’re looking for places. Like you’re over in Switzerland G: No, I’m not really. I mean, I know the...
right now? I have a friend that wants to go over to Switzerland.
Will Switzerland be safe? The whole northern hemisphere is K: He’s the hacker that hacked into the Pentagon computers, and
gonna be a dangerous place. they’re extraditing him. He went up to the House of Lords. He
was turned down. He didn’t want to be extradited from the UK to
K: OK, so you think that the mountains aren’t going to help? the US. He’s afraid of going to Guantanamo. So I wondered if
you’d heard anything about that case.
G: No. No.
G: No, I haven’t heard anything about that. But I know that the
K: OK. Well, this is kind of a gloomy picture here. We want just new systems they’re putting into place right now are gonna
a ray of hope for you. change all kinds of things. And they’re very concerned about
that. You know, Google’s coming out with its own browser
today?
We’re starting a new website called Project Avalon that’s going
to create a forum where people can connect with other people,
have dialogues about these issues, and start creating K: Yeah, I heard that.
communities. It’s going to have resources with information on
building earth houses and whatever, you know, storing water and G: And because of the browser, because of the information and
whatever is necessary to get through whatever might be coming the streaming quality of videos and information, more and more
down the line. So, it is called www.projectavalon.net. And I people are going to the internet for information than they are...
invite you to be one of our first visitors, and certainly you’re the well, they know.
inspiration in many ways for it.
Look at CBS. It’s got what? 6 millions viewers, right? Now all of
G: Well, thanks, Kerry. As soon as I get myself organized this a sudden their whole economic stream is coming apart. And the
next week, I’ll be glad to do that. There are several little cities advertising is going to the internet. They’re not making any
across the United States that have declared themselves money yet, but that’s what they’re trying to do. Otherwise, it will
independent and they know what’s happening. So many people in be total chaos in what they call the information stream.
there are assigning jobs. One person will grow one thing, one will
try to work on the energy portion. Everybody’s working together. And it will be people like you that will be able to put information
And there are new energy devices that are being withheld from out, that people can reasonably take it and say, OK, I can count
the general public that are also starting to come out online. And I on that. The problem is how they’re gonna be able to survive in
think what you’re doing is allowing people to facilitate all of that, the days ahead. And that’s the challenge, and that’s what your
if we can keep away the greed factor from everything. other new website’s all about.
K: Yeah. Always an issue. Well, thank you, George. This has K: Right. Absolutely.
been quite an interesting conversation, to say the least. And
hopefully it’s brought people up to date. We’d love to have
another conversation with you, you know, next week sometime, G: So we’ll all work together. It’s not a one-man job. Those that
once you’ve had a chance to touch base with your Washington, or wake up, we have to work together.
whoever, whatever, sources.
K: Yeah, that’s for sure. OK. Well, take care, George, and we
G: Kerry, what I’ll do is, I’ll call you back. I’m flying out of hope to talk to you again soon, OK?
town on Wednesday and I’ll be in Denver, Colorado, actually, for
three days, for three different lectures there, next to where they G: Thank you.
just had the convention.
B: Thank you, George.
K: Right. [laughs] Very interesting. OK. One last question. Gary
McKinnon. Are you familiar with his case? G: Thank you, sir. ‘Bye.
99
(This article from RENSE.com is the subject of the telephone inte0rview with Benjamin Fulford which follows this article.)
US War-Mongering In Georgia
A Negotiation Tactic As US Bankruptcy Looms
By Benjamin Fulford
8-28-2008
The US war-mongering and talk of World War 3 is nothing more

than a desperate negotiation tactic aimed at staving off US Furthermore, control of the US cabal would be handed over to a
bankruptcy, according to two sources affiliated with US younger, and supposedly more enlightened generation.
intelligence agencies. The Bank for International Settlements has
demanded that the Bush/Nazi cabal that has taken control of the This is the same source who promised last autumn that Al Gore
US pay back trillions of dollars they stole from the rest of the would be made president. While that did not happen, he did
world by September 30th, the sources say. The money was stolen subsequently get a highly publicized movie, a Nobel Prize, an
during the Reagan presidency by George Bush senior to finance Academy award and a big advertizing budget, indicating serious
the collapse of the Soviet Union. This money must now be power in the hands of the faction that made this promise.
returned to its rightful owners, the sources say. As the deadline
approaches, the cabal has threatened to impose martial law on the A senior NSA source, meanwhile, warned that a member of the
US and launch World War 3 unless they are given a reprieve. Chinese politburo affiliated with Madam Wu has been bribed by
this cabal and may therefore be compromised.
In a related development, an agent of David Rockefeller, the self- It is impossible for me to independently verify any of this
described Japanese Security Police "ninja," has provided this information but I have been able to independently verify that the
writer with a proposal aimed at fixing the situation. The proposal sources are genuine NSA, CIA and Japanese Security Police
calls for a secret council of 100 people to take control of the agents.
world's finances. The votes would be distributed as follows: 78
for an alliance of Russia, the EU (i.e. France and Germany) and However, it is clear that some sort of deal is likely to be reached
China. The other 22 would go to the US. As a part of this deal by September 30th and that thus martial law and war can be
UN headquarters would be moved to Xian, China by 2011. Also avoided. The evidence for this is the shift in Chinese policy
by that date the US dollar would be replaced by a new currency. towards the US dollar. While previously Chinese companies and
A China-based world government would then be put in place by financial institutions were shunning dollars they are now ramping
2020, according to this source. At that point the US armed forces the dollar up with massive purchases. This is being accompanied
would become a UN force controlled by the entire planet. by a plunge in oil prices. At the same time, the short selling of
gold futures by certain banks is probably linked to a belief that
In exchange for this offer, David Rockefeller has asked the Japanese gold will be flooding the market as the result of an
Japanese Emperor for permission to use 2000 trillion yen worth agreement.
of Japanese gold that is held on US territory. The gold would be
used as follows: 500 trillion yen to deal with the sub-prime crisis, We will try to keep readers posted as new information or
500 trillion yen to get the cabal out of debt, another 500 trillion additional evidence comes in.
yen to finance a vast space exploration project, 350 trillion yen to
pay off Iraq war debt and 150 trillion yen to invest in China.
Benjamin Fulford
100
Project Camelot:
Benjamin Fulford Telephone Interview Transcript
6 September 2008
they’re crazy. And they’re trying to kill billions of people. And

we’re running out of time.
K: So you’re saying that they’re going to push this event forward

and you think it might be happening sometime in... October is the
timeline you’re given?
BF: Well, this is what a lot of the sources are telling me. There’s
a split in the ranks. You see, a lot of the Bushes and their Nazi
people have been stealing from everybody, and up in the high
finance world they’ve created a lot of enemies. And they’re
supposed to have some sort of September 30th deadline to pay.
A 35 minute telephone interview with Benjamin Fulford. The And they don’t have the money, so they’re gonna create martial
purpose of the call was to allow him to expand on the details law and activate their military and say, To hell with you.
reported by him in his 28 August article. His article concerned
the importance of 30 September as the end of the US Fiscal Year,
and the possible situations being played out by the superpowers Now, I have conflicting information and it’s hard to sift through
behind the scenes. it all. The Japanese Security Police Ninja -- and that, by the way,
is a very ancient tradition in Japan, with very deep roots; the top
levels are their equivalent of our spy agencies -- but he’s telling
Start of Conversation me they actually made an agreement and they’re gonna use
Japanese gold in the US to pay off the Bushes’ debt and then
Kerry Cassidy: Today is September 6th and it’s 7:14 pm, they’re gonna come up with a new agreement. I published it in
California time. And Benjamin, where you are, I can’t imagine Japanese on my web page.
how late it is.
But the problem is, it looks to me like a delaying tactic. These
Benjamin Fulford: Well, it’s 11 in the morning on September 7th people were planning something for 2012, and events are
here in Tokyo. spinning out of their control. So they’re trying to fast-forward it,
but they need more time. That’s my understanding of it.
K: Oh, right. Sunday. So this is Kerry Cassidy from Project
Camelot and Bill Ryan. And we’re talking to Benjamin Fulford But we really, clearly, must not let them strike first. That’s what
in Japan. So, Benjamin, last time we talked, you were very, sort they did on September 11, 2001, and they’re gonna do it again. In
of incognito, talking about September 8th as an interesting date. other words, we cannot react. They’re gonna do something so
radical that... We have to have a critical mass of people in the
military and the intelligence establishment, whatever, among the
BF: Well, actually, I don’t know about September 8th, but, you
civil population, to take these people down before they make a
know, the dirt I’ve been hearing is September 30th, and then
move like this.
some sort of event in the US in October. So my understanding
from my various sources is that there will be an attempt at a coup
d’etat, martial law, and rounding people up for the detention K: What exactly is the plan that you think they have? In other
camps in early October. words, you think they plan either to attack Iran, or you’re saying
they’re going to take out Israel. What is their plan?
These people have been trying very hard to start WWIII. As you
know, the Israelis had an Air Force base in Georgia and they BF: Well, there is a group that wants to start WWIII. And we’re
were planning to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities from Georgia. the group that’s trying to stop them. It’s clear the US Air Force
The important thing is though... a friend of mine who was at the has prevented the Israelis from attacking Iran by flying over Iraqi
Trilateral meeting in Tokyo in 2006 told me there was a technical air space. And when the Israelis set up an air base in Georgia, the
explanation there, where they said that because the Iranian Russians came in and captured the airplanes and dismantled the
facilities are so deep underground, they would have to attack air base. But clearly there is a big group in the US military, in
them with nuclear weapons. Now, the Russians and the Chinese Russia, whatever, trying to stop these people.
have said they will destroy Israel if they do that. OK?
But they control the Congress, they control the press, they control
Well, I suspect the people behind this are ready to see Israel the Supreme Court, they control the office of the President, and
destroyed. This is gonna be their new holocaust in order to create they control about 190,000 Blackwater mercenaries.
the environment for their so-called “messiah” to appear. So
101
K: Who are you saying controls these people? Do you have... government” that would involve domination by an alliance of the
Europeans (and when I say “Europeans,” I mean the non-Anglo-
BF: Well, they’re a group of Neo-Nazis headed by their fuerher, Saxon Europeans: the French and the Germans), the Russians,
George Bush, Sr. And these are people who, after WWII, they and the Chinese, with the Americans getting 22 out of 100 votes
said, you know, they found Nazi documents in Germany saying, and the Europeans, the Russians, and the Chinese getting 78
For us the war never ended. And they’ve been planning this for votes. And that, as a result of this agreement, they’re gonna
more than 50 years. They are the people who assassinated extend the Bushes’ money to keep things going after September.
Kennedy and Martin Luther King. And they have a lot of their
people spread throughout the establishment. And they were But I worry that that agreement is just a ploy for time, that it’s
waiting until they had all the right people in all the right places. not gonna be something they’re really gonna do. I mean, these
And now it’s sort of “endgame”. They’re being cornered. people are serial liars. And we have the, apparently George Bush
Senior’s brother, Jonathan Bush, who has been living in China
Their original plan was to have Hillary Clinton followed by Jeb for a long time. And my sources are telling me that a Chinese
Bush for the... to complete their entire Nazification and turning Politburo official connected to Madame Wu has laundered
the US into a fascist country. But the loss by Clinton and a billions of dollars overseas and is being blackmailed about this.
change in the power politics among the “secret government” And also we have George Bush, Sr., who was ambassador to
members has meant they’re kind of desperate and they’re gonna China. So they have a lot of connections there.
try to do something very crazy.
And I think they’ve been lying to and fooling the Chinese and
K: OK, but you were talking about a coup. So on September using their connections to try to make it look like they’re gonna
30th, exactly what do you think...? Because you can’t put in hand over control to the Chinese, but really they’re just playing
martial law without some kind of... for time.
BF: Well, the BIS has demanded that the Bushes pay back the So my advice to the Chinese is don’t trust these people and don’t
money they owe to the Europeans who are trying... basically trust any Chinese that are connected to the Bushes, because
everyone on Earth. They’ve been ripping people off all over the they’ve been bribed, and they’ve been compromised, and they’re
place. So if they don’t, then there is a possibility of a serious probably also blackmailed, too.
economic crisis in the US. And such a crisis would be followed
by martial law. K: But you’re saying that they’re actually going to sit back and
take 22 votes versus 78 on the side of the Europeans. I don’t see
K: OK, from George Green we understand that the Bank for America settling for that. Not the America I know, at any rate.
International Settlements is supposed to be not able to do their
actual audit during the Bush administration, that they’d have to BF: Well, that’s the point. So there are some, obviously, factions.
come in after the election. That was his understanding, because This is, I assume, the same faction that was behind this whole
Bush does not want them to come in while he’s in office. Do you CO2 campaign, the people who backed Al Gore, OK? And that
think that they can be put off that far? faction is obviously opposed by the Nazi faction, who want to
create an artificial Endtime. That’s the problem.
BF: Well, they’re obviously trying to play for time. It’s clear that
everybody’s waiting for November and everybody’s waiting for So it’s really... And the US military establishment and
the new President before they can start, you know, unraveling the intelligence community, whatever, seems to be split in two
mess these people made. OK? between the fascists and the traditional, you know, patriots. I’m
hoping that a majority will be patriots and realize that they want
You’ve got to remember, these people have been planning this the United States to be free and strong. And if the United States is
for 50 years. They’re not just gonna step aside politely. As you free and strong, they will keep their leadership of the world just
know, they’ve built concentration camps around the US. They because they’ll be the best and everyone will want to imitate
have their Blackwater mercenaries who are, you know, the them. But to try to take over the world by force... it’s just not
equivalent of the SS. OK? gonna happen.
K: Are you getting information on what kind of event that they’re K: Originally you had said that if they went and attacked Iran,
planning for, say, October sometime? that the Ninjas would be mobilized to actually take them out one
by one. That was your threat.
BF: Well, it would be declaration of a national state of
emergency. BF: Well, yeah. I mean, if there is an attack I will certainly ask
that they start doing this. I mean, it’s clearly... These people are a
threat to the human species and it’s in everybody’s interest. At
Now, the message and information I’m getting is mixed. It’s clear that point, that will have to happen.
there’s a lot of flux going on. There’s a lot of different factions
with different agendas and it’s not clear how the whole thing’s
gonna play out. K: Our information, partly from George Green, but also from
other sources, is saying there is going to be an attack on Iran. Is
that information you’re getting? Or are you getting that they’re
Like I say, the Japanese Security Police, the guy who was going to hold off?
originally sent to me by David Rockefeller, contacted me saying
they’d reached an agreement for a new type of “world secret
102
BF: Well, they’ve been trying to attack Iran for a long time. They BF: Well, I hope so. And I think Mr. Gates, Defense Secretary
tried to attack Iran... well, in fact, George Bush, Sr. ordered the Gates, seems like a sane man. And you had the Admiral Fallon
Pentagon to nuke Iraq or something back in 1992 and they said thing. That was a bunch of them trying to put the crazies back in
No, and they tried to take him down with the Iran Contra scandal. the box. But there is some kind of Mossad assassination team out
And they managed to get him out of power. So there is a there, too. And at a certain point, these white hats are gonna have
powerful faction of “White Knights” in there. two take actual action, i.e., arrest people. And that hopefully will
happen.
And these are the same people that have repeatedly blocked the
Israeli Air Force from attacking Iran. And if you look at a map, I mean, I am encouraged by the fact that they have been stopping
you can see that they could attack Iran from Georgia without repeated, repeated attempts to attack Iran. So hopefully this
flying over Iraqi air space, and therefore not being blocked by the nightmare scenario will not take place.
US Air Force. But if the Air Force is actually blocking the
Israelis, then I don’t see how the Israelis are gonna be able to But the key of the question of what’s gonna happen is Blackwater
attack. mercenaries, and who’s gonna fight them. Or are they gonna
obey orders?
However, I have also heard that something like 20 Air Force
generals were killed. And so, maybe they’re trying to wrest The big difference between the Nazis today and the Nazis in
control of the Air Force. But Russia... Germany is that these Nazis don’t have any popular support.
Hitler had 80% popular support. These guys have 20%, just the
K: Are you talking about 20 US Air Force generals? brainwashed Christian Zionists. You know, we have other
sources saying that something like 1 to 2 percent of the US
BF: Yes. I got this from an NSA source. I don’t know if it’s true population has been specially trained and indoctrinated for an
or not. event of this sort.
K: We heard something similar to this. Is this something that It’s a messy situation and there’s a lot that we cannot see. On the
happened in Georgia? other hand, there are good signs as well. Japan’s gonna have a
general election in November and hopefully the new government
will be very different from the one that’s been in power since
BF: No, that would be in the US. after 1955. And hopefully they will insist that the US stop their
incessant warmongering if they wish to keep receiving funding
K: In the US? OK. that they need to have their economy stay afloat.
BF: They’re trying to purge the doves from the US Air Force so K: What’s your take on what’s going on on September 30th in
they can get their hands on the nukes. regard to the US economy? Because, as you said, those debts are
going to be due. Is the Japanese gold going to prop up our
K: Are you able to reveal where you got that information about economy here in the US or not?
the generals being...
BF: Well, I mean, it’s in nobody’s interest to have the US
BF: Well, one NSA source and one CIA source. And I looked on economy collapse. Nobody wants to have a Soviet-style collapse.
the internet and there were some articles. It’s hard to see if it’s And I think they’ll find a way to keep the money going. But of
true or not, you know. course if there is an attack on iran, then who knows? But I
believe that there’s a critical mass of sane people that does not
want WWIII. So even... my guess is that the Zionists, if they
But I believe that even if they get rid of the generals, there are so succeed in bombing Iran, then Israel will be destroyed, but the
many colonels and other people there who are the... they are the US will not then start all-out thermonuclear war, as some of these
line of defense, at the end of the day. crazies are planning and hoping for.
I mean, these people, they control their very top positions. Like K: Are you still in the same position you were before, in the
you have Hayden there, at the top of the CIA. And you have sense that you’re aligned with these Asian Secret Societies and
Kinney. And these are the people that you have to take out. They that they can be called upon to actually try to change events?
don’t control the middle ranks or even most of the upper ranks,
just the very tip-top, in many cases.
BF: Yes. And I have asked them to take a look at their deal and
insist that they be given access to US military bases, to make sure
Now, we have a list of their names. Everyone knows the Neocons there’s no genocide being planned. And I also told them that, you
and who they are. And these are the people that need to be know, they should not be playing for time and we should not give
stopped. I mean, they’re crazy. That’s the bottom line. They’re them time, because time is not on our side. They were... You
following an insane agenda. know, I guess they’re working toward 2012. They’re trying to
speed up the agenda. And so, the faster we act, the less likely
K: What’s your idea of what can be done to stop them? Are you they are to succeed.
just saying that we have to rely on what is, in essence, “white
hats,” to pull a coup within the US government? Because I would And also, I’m been contacted by other groups... the Karate
posit that this might have already happened, under Mike Association? Fifty million people around the world are studying
McConnell.
103
karate and they’ve offered help. And they could probably get all BF: Yes. Now, they’re saying some sort of event in early
the other martial arts societies to join. And, as you know, most October, too. And then you can confirm this from places like the
people who are studying martial arts are not Asians these days. Jerusalem Post. That newspaper had an article saying they were
They’re actually, you know, all over the world. I mean, I studied going to attack Iran with nuclear weapons.
judo in Mexico as a kid and then continued my studies in Canada.
So these societies are very important. So, you have a faction that wants to start nuclear war. They want
to nuke Iran’s facilities. And you have a faction that’s trying to
At the end of the day, we’re hoping that everything can be done stop them. And you have these factions controlling large sums of
peacefully, without a single death and a single fight. You know, money, so there are financial backers for each faction. And so,
bullies become weak if people stand up to them. And if enough what we’re getting is information from two sources, two big, you
people stand up and say, Hey! then they will stand down. I’m know, main sources, of two factions, and it’s not clear what the
hoping they will see the insanity of what they’re trying to do and balance of power is.
wake up.
But, overall, I think the crazy faction that wants to start WWIII is
Bill Ryan: Some of the information that you’ve been reporting... losing. But they’re desperate and they’re cornered and they’re
a lot of people listening to this will identify it as being very gonna try to pull off something, OK? So that’s how I read the
similar to stories that are being reported by Christopher Storey on situation. There is a desperate, violent, nasty group, and they are
World Reports and also by Stew Web on Fourwinds10 and then in a pinch. And until they’ve actually stepped aside, we cannot
copied around on websites and forums like Rumor Mill News. say with confidence they’re not gonna do something crazy.
And most serious analysts don’t give that information any That’s my reading of the situation, from many different sources.
credence because they don’t trust those sources. Are you saying
that your source of this information comes from genuine insiders, BR: As a financial guy, there’s a lot more that you understand
and it’s not just picked up off the internet? than we do about the processes of banking and the Federal
Reserve and all of the huge machinations that make up the kind
of whole carefully balanced machine of the international debt
structure.
So, what could really happen in the real world on September

30th? Imagine that the clock’s turning midnight in Washington.
What happens? Do they make a press announcement the next
morning, announcing to the world and to the media that they’re
repudiating all of their debt? Or do they just put troops on the
streets and say, Tough, all the banks are closed; we’re not even
going to tell you why? Or if this all in response to an event, some
kind of martial law, what might that event be?
BF: Well, OK. The scenario is that they cut off the US payments,
right? They say, OK, the United States is bankrupt. And that
would lead to a shutdown of banks. People wouldn’t be able to
BF: Well, the person sent to me by Heizo Takenaka, the finance get their money out. The whole system would fall into chaos.
minister, who works for Rockefeller -- the person who is OK? There would be riots in the streets, people rushing to
definitely connected with the Japanese Security Police and supermarkets to grab food. People heading out the countryside,
definitely connected with David Rockefeller -- ok? -- what he you know. And then we’d have martial law and we’d have these
told me was that they had figured out, they had worked around Blackwater mercenaries out on the street trying to round up
the September 30th deadline, and that Japanese gold would be dissidents. And they have this list of a million people that they
used... 2,000-trillion yen worth of Japanese gold would be used to want to round up, right? This so-called “no-fly” list. So, if you’re
support the US economy over a transition period through to 2010. on that list, you better hide.
First of all, clear the debts of the cabal, and then finance a huge
aerospace project. So that source, he tells me that the September But my guess is that the smart people will not give those guys
30th thing has been dealt with, OK? There was a deadline, and any excuse to start martial law. In other words, they will keep
they’ve come up with a solution. financing them until November, until they’re out of power, not
give them... If I were, you know, I would say, Look, let’s not give
K: Well, it sounds like you’re not sure about that. It sounds like these guys their excuse.
you’re actually unsure.
They’re trying to do something in October, because after
BF: Well, I mean, that’s what one source says. The source, the November they’re out of power. And they’re worried about going
NSA guy, is telling me that there’s still (and the CIA guy, they to jail for war crimes. So again, my recommendation is we offer
both have), and a source that is not Mr. Storey, ok? These are these people a full pardon, a full amnesty, as long as they step
some analysts who have come up with a very successful aside peacefully.
predictive model by scanning the internet for certain types of
clues. K: OK, when you say “we,” though, are going to offer these
people amnesty... I mean, what is your scenario as to how this so-
K: You’re talking about Half Past Human. called amnesty would even take place? Because, for all intents
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and purposes, from our understanding, these people are not going look at... for example, I interviewed a lot of the solar power
to go quietly. companies ten years ago. And they said that after two or three
years, solar power would be compared with oil. Well, oil was $30
BF: Right. a barrel then. And now, what happened? Well, the price of silicon
has gone up five-fold in this past year, along with the price of oil.
Now, silicon is the third most common element on Earth. It’s
K: Under every circumstance that we can imagine, including their sand. There’s no way that price should be so high. In other
heart-felt desire for an Armageddon-like scenario, they don’t words, solar power should be dirt cheap, and everyone should
have any motivation to go quietly, do they? have solar power in their house. But they don’t. So they have to
free this technology.
BF: They don’t. But the question is, do they have the ability? I
think they’ve lost so much support, even in the “secret And there is a powerful group of people who’ve been living off
government,” that I don’t think they’re going to be able to do oil money and who have bought up, you know... and it’s the oil
anything. They have stolen a lot of money. They’ve hired a lot of money that’s fed the military machine, right? So the trick is to
goons. The big worry is this Blackwater force and what those separate the military from the oil. Say to the military guys, Hey,
people are gonna do. They’re paid a thousand dollars a day. But we’ll keep funding you, and we’ll finance a major, major space
they want to do something. They’ve wanted to do it for a long exploration program. And the oil people, well, they’re just gonna
time. They’ve been trying to nuke Iran for years. They’ve been have to realize that oil is very valuable as a fertilizer and as a
talking this talk for a very long time. I mean, how many hundreds material for making things, but it’s not very valuable as a source
of times have they said, We’ll attack Iran, attack Iran, attack of energy. You know, that’s the question.
Iran. You know? But they haven’t done it.
K: But the bottom line here is whether or not the Illuminati -- and
K: Right. where we get into a difficulty here is, when I talk about the
Illuminati -- if you listen to David Icke, who makes a lot of sense
BF: They obviously want to, but somebody’s stopping them. a lot of the time, he’s actually saying that on an upper level, the
Chinese are also run by the Illuminati behind the scenes. And that
K: OK. Well, look, I’m an American and I can tell you that the means there is a deeper agenda than just the one we’re talking
party line that I’m hearing from John McCain... he’s totally about here that will motivate events in the long run. And I
backed now by Bush and his whole Neocon group, and so is appreciate that there’s some madmen, the Neocons, that are going
Palin. And they’re rapping the exact same party line that’s always to be trying to stay in what appears to be power here in the US.
been rapped down. These people are trying to get into office. On But the bottom line is also that there is an agenda for the world.
the other side, you’ve got Brzezinski’s faction, which is Obama. And it’s pretty diabolical. And this is what we’re actually
fighting.
So under these scenarios... I mean, in essence, I don’t see

anybody really backing down. The “white hats” cannot possibly BF: Well, it is definitely clear that there... Well, this is where it
be part of the McCain camp, so in essence, theoretically, they gets into stuff that I don’t know about. But a CIA guy who’s
have to be part of the Brzezinski group. And yet, Brzezinski is connected with the Area 51-type people, and a couple of other
known for wanting to bring Russia into a third world war. I mean, sources, have told me that, basically, humanity was not allowed
the bottom line is that these are factions of the Illuminati, and that to continue exploring space after the Apollo program, because we
they do want to see a population reduction situation happen. are a very violent and dangerous race.
BF: Well, I mean, on a more macro picture, you have the United And if humanity can come up with a world government that
States and these factions. OK? They’ve been playing follows this universal principle of “Never shoot out the first
international poker for the planet over the past year. They’ve punch,” they will be allowed to continue space exploration. And
used their oil card. They tried to jack up the oil price? But what there is a faction that wants to turn the human species into a kind
happened was, they jacked it up so far that their revenue from oil of predatory type of creature. And this is what these people say.
actually started to decrease, because people just stopped using So that’s the battle line there.
oil. So that misfired.
But the Chinese, as far as I can tell by all my connections, and if
So then they tried to jack up the food price. Right? And they you look at the nature of their government and everything else,
jacked up the price of steel and aluminum, everything they they are not doing evil in China. But China was under their
controlled, OK? As part of the battle. And finally they dropped control under Chairman Mao and they killed tens of millions of
their last card, which is the US military machine. And they’re people. But after Deng Xiao-Ping got in power, basically the
saying, Look. If nothing else, we’ll just use this machine full-out. Illuminati lost China. They’re trying to get back. They have
So, it’s their last bargaining chip. people they’ve been working on and bribing and whatever, but
they don’t have control. But they have been negotiating and
they’ve been trying to fool the Chinese. That’s my take on it.
So what I have recommended... What I believe the Chinese and
everybody are saying is: Look we’ll keep your military machine
afloat. We’ll turn it into a United Nations military machine. And K: We understand that the Russians and the Chinese have been
we’ll keep financing your economy, but no genocide. doing war games together.
And the other question is, are they gonna free the forbidden BF: Yes.
technology? You don’t even have to get into conspiracy theory to
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K: Do you know the objective of that? K: All right. Well, Benjamin, we really appreciate you
reconnecting with us on this call, because we’ve started our new
BF: The objective is that, if necessary, they are ready to take on site, which is www.projectavalon.net. It’s got a forum and we’re
the US military machine. The Chinese have their nuclear subs out already getting hundreds of people signing on. It’s about people
there. The Russians are ready. These people are ready for all-out talking to each other about all these issues as well as finding safe
nuclear war, if it comes to that. So, it’s a question of who blinks places in the off-chance that this situation in October actually
first. becomes something major, as well as the meltdown of the US
economy, which in many ways, wouldn’t you say it’s going to
continue? Because regardless of whether you have the day,
K: Well, that sounds like a really dire situation. September 30, I mean, the US is bankrupt.
BF: It is a dire situation. BF: Yeah, it is bankrupt and they need to be refinanced. And it’s
in everybody’s interest to refinance the US. Theoretically, I
K: So basically, would you say you’re optimistic at this time, mean, the US should be having very, very high economic growth.
Benjamin, in light of everything we’re talking about here? Or are All they have to do is take all that technology that they’ve
you very cautious? classified for so-called security reasons and make it public. And,
you know, they’d have a boom. Free energy alone would cause
BF: Well, I’m optimistic. It’s a dangerous situation, but I’m people to be rich.
optimistic that sanity will prevail. Because, you know, it’s
amazing what the thought of death does to clarify your thinking. K: No doubt about it. Well, thank you very much, Benjamin.
And these guys have such a good life, they don’t wanta die. And
so, there will be a step-down. BF: So the message is, we need a critical mass of decent people
in the world right now. It’s very, very urgent that all decent
But, worst case scenario would be the nuking of Iran followed by people who want peace realize that there is a time when we have
the nuking of Israel. But it would not escalate beyond that point. to draw a line in the sand. And this is that time.
So if the Zionists do attack Iran, it’ll be a fatal mistake for them.
That’s my reading of the situation. K: Well said. OK. Hopefully, we can connect with you again
sometime after your Rense show on September 8th, and see if
there’s some new developments at that time.
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Project Camelot:
David Wilcock Telephone Interview Transcript
9 September 2008
very accurately depicted the number Phi using an intelligent

cipher that was able to be decoded by a man in England and it
actually was covered on Fox News website. It was covered on a
couple of English websites and got to be quite a big media
sensation.
What a lot of people didn’t notice was that this formation had a
ratcheting appearance to it, which was very similar to my all-
time-favorite crop formation -- which is also the favorite of many
others -- Barbury Castle, 1991. This is a formation that Richard
Hoagland wrote about extensively in his book, Monuments of
Mars, because it encoded the geometry of a tetrahedron, which is
a pyramid type object made of four sides with equilateral
triangles on each side.
This is a blockbuster of a two hour phone conversation with
David Wilcock, focusing on immediate current events but So it looks like a pyramid except the bottom is a triangle. And
spanning time travel, the Freemasons, the Anunnaki, the Nazis, then you stick that inside a sphere and Hoagland’s research into
WW II, advanced technology, the Roswell crash, the physics, which has been supported by others including -- going
Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Illuminati, the war in Georgia, all the way back to some of the turn-of-the-century physicists,
the coming US election, Benjamin Fulford's testimony, and what including Maxwell -- is that when you have a gravitating body of
may or may not happen in the coming few weeks and months. large size, like the planet Earth or any other planet, that there’s
natural energy upwellings as the body rotates, which are formed
Start of Conversation by geometry.
Kerry Cassidy: This is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan from Project And that sounds kind of dry and academic until you realize that
Camelot, and we’re here with David Wilcock. It is September the Great Red Spot on Jupiter is at precisely this geometrically-
9th, 2008, and welcome, David. We’re very happy to be able to defined point. It’s been sitting there for 400 years rotating. As far
chat with you on a live situation here where the rest of the world as we know it’s been there the whole time. We see, on solid
is going to be able to listen in. planets, instead of these giant hurricane-like storms, we see
gigantic volcanoes. In fact, the Hawaiian Island chain is at this
geometric point on Earth, and on Mars, you have a mountain
D: Well, I’m more than happy to jump in. I heard that you guys called Olympus Mons, which is a volcano that’s three times taller
had people asking about me and wanting to hear some more and than Mt. Everest.
I’m working on a really, really important article right now and I
think that the implications of what I’m putting together are quite
intriguing and valuable for many people to hear. K: Aren’t we talking about 19.5?
K: OK, well we just want to jump right in because we’re very D: 19.5, that’s right. It’s either 19.5 degrees north or south of the
interested in your take on the recent announcements by Benjamin Equator; if you fix one of the points of the tetrahedron to either
Fulford and just want to know what you think about the election, the north or south rotational pole. And, again, this would all just
what’s going on, ah, October -- we get a lot of stuff about be an interesting academic exercise, if it wasn’t for the fact that,
October -- so just kind of run the gamut, if you will, and then in the 1991 crop formation was laid down, which actually
circle around to your article and what you are going to put forth. diagramed in very precise geometric language how this works.
And what was interesting was that, that was only the middle of
the formation; on the edge of each point on the triangle was a
D: Well, I’ll apologize in advance for the fact that this will little circle formation, and the first one was intended to be a dot
probably, at first, sound like a monologue, but there is some back inside a circle, which kind of represents like the first dimension.
story that we need to have in order to have a good philosophical
discussion about this stuff. Is that ok?
The second one was a series of spiraling lines coming out from a
center going to the outside, which kind of represents the second
K: Absolutely. dimension in which the point in the middle of the sphere in the
first diagram becomes a rotation in the second diagram and then,
D: All right. There have been some very intriguing the third diagram, you get this ratcheting thing.
developments, beginning in the field of crop circles, actually;
beginning, of course, earlier this year with a crop formation that
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The third circle on the outside of this triangle becomes a And we keep seeing the same information over and over again. In
ratcheting shape, which actually looks like a pyramid. It’s a 4- fact, I just asked Henry this morning if I had his permission to go
sided square, which kind of collapses in on itself in a spiral. It’s public with the fact that he and I have had extensive
easier to see the picture and it’ll be on my article when I publish communication; he actually announced that in your forum -- so
it tonight, which is on www.divinecosmos.com, my website. now that’s out of the bag. Anyway, the point is, is that there was
not just one 2012 formation, there were actually two and, in the
All this stuff is going to be there. Anyway, so it looks like there’s 2nd one a series of dates were given, not just 2012.
a progression of dimensions. You have the 1st dimension; 2nd
dimension; 3rd dimension and then the 4th dimension, of course, And the date that has consistently been shown the most, and this
would be the inside of the diagram, where you get this is over the course of at least 6 different crop circles that appeared
tetrahedron-inside-the-sphere thing. And so it was like a giant in this year’s season, the date that was consistently flagged the
infomercial in the crops for Richard Hoagland’s theory, and then, most was August 16, 2008. During which time there was a lunar
what happens is this year, you get the same type of ratcheting eclipse over Europe, which would encompass approximately 87%
formation, only this time it’s encoding phi, which, of course, is of the moon’s face by the shadow of the earth as it’s occulted
that irrational number that’s created when you take a circle and between the sun and the moon.
you define the diameter as the number 1 and then the
circumference of the circle is a number that cannot be resolved So what happens is you have this eclipse and, traditionally
within our 3-dimensional mathematics. speaking, eclipses are associated with the fall of kings. They’re
associated with major political changes on the planet, particularly
It’s why the phi has an infinite number of decimals, because you when they act to potentiate existing energies that are already
can’t actually calculate it if you make the diameter 1. Anyway, quite tense. Now I was looking at these prophecies. I was aware
it’s believed that, in a higher-dimensional framework, phi of them as early as the 2nd week of July. I did not wish to go
actually resolves to a single number with NO decimal points and public with them, because I felt what would happen is that others
that’s when you get into all this multidimensional stuff. So, would jump on it and try to make it into something more than it
suffice it to say that crop circles got more publicity than ever this was. I didn’t know what the answer would be; however, there
year as a result of that shape being decoded and published in all were some very intriguing clues.
these mainstream media sources.
One of the formations that flagged August 16th as an exact
Not too long after that, there was another formation that came timeline was actually drawn directly next to a series of windmills
down, which actually gives, in no uncertain terms, an exact that are used to generate wind power -- electricity from the wind
diagram of where the planets in the Solar System will be as of – which, of course, is alternative energy, which, of course, could
December 21, 2012, which is the end of the Mayan Calendar and, very well be the circle makers saying to us, Ok, check it out.
of course, the date that is massively speculated upon. Whatever happens on August 16th is going to be a major step
towards eliminating the dependence that you have on oil and
There are 2 different feature studio films coming out about 2012, freeing up the possibility of alternative forms of energy and,
one of which is by Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay -- the guy when you look at this confirmation, which, again, I will have all
that did Transformers and the guy that did The Day After these pictures up on my site and we can mirror this on
Tomorrow. There’s another one coming out from Nickelodeon. www.ProjectAvalon.net, which is you guys’ new site as well, so
It’s actually a KIDS' movie based on 2012 and the apocalypse, if everybody can see this.
you can believe that. And we also know -- you, all 3 of us in this
conversation -- know that there are multiple witnesses from You’re going to see what appear to be 3 sets of gears with teeth
inside the black ops community that have portended what usually on them, clearly showing that this is intended to be some sort of
appears to be quite a cataclysmic type of event in 2012. You have machine, some sort of functional machine that they’re flagging.
... I’m forgetting the guy’s name, who was the intuitive So you have the suggestion of a machine; it’s built next to a row
communicator and was ... of 4 giant windmills that generate electricity, and the date that
they’re flagging, again, is August 16th. And there’s, like, 6
K: ... Clifford Stone? different formations doing this date. So I’m going, what the hell
is going on here?
D: Well, he’s one of them, but the guy that devised that method
of communication because they told him that... Then I go off to ... oh, and that’s not all. I was working on a
paper with Richard Hoagland insofar as he submitted it to me to
read and to see if I had any suggestions as to information I might
K: ... Dan Sherman? want to add to it. And this paper dealt with the very beginning of
NASA involving Wernher von Braun, who was essentially a Nazi
D: ... Dan Sherman, right. That after 2012, there would be no German scientist transferred over here after World War II by our
electromagnetic means of communication and he devised these guys in the U.S., who was then made to be a very public role in
other means which they taught him how to do telepathically; and, basically acclimating American people to what’s going on in the
of course, yeah, Clifford Stone, same thing; Dan Burisch -- who space program.
all three of us have had extensive communication with -- same
thing; Henry Deacon -- who all three of us have been in contact And in fact, he had a great deal of rocketry experience by
with -- same thing. designing the V2 rockets in Germany and was not only the public
relations face, but was also a very important scientist in terms of
actually developing rocket technology, which would ultimately
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lean towards trying to do a moon shot, trying to get a man on the Now in the meantime I’m sitting here working on this diagram
moon. Well in the early days they were launching off a bunch of and the key thing that was the most difficult was this figure-8
rockets and, in the process, many of them -- almost all of them, in infinity loop that I was trying to superimpose between the Earth
fact -- were not following their projected path as it had been and the Moon. And I’d gotten this off of just a website that had a
given. series of infinity shapes on it. The original infinity shape was a
uniform line all the way around. It was like if you drew a number
In other words, we were using the conventional Newtonian 8 but the line was even in its width all the way across. And I had
Physics: Force = Mass x Acceleration; and all the basic rules of gotten it all the way to where I wanted it and then my computer
how we believe the planets and moons and so forth orbit. crashed and I had to start over.
And nothing was working out right. There was some sort of And I’d had so much trouble with the fatter infinity symbol that I
mysterious force that was skewing the rockets so that they were went with a skinnier one, where on one side, it was wide and on
actually overshooting the target -- it was as if something was the other side, it was skinny. So it looks more like a conventional
lifting them. They were getting an extra source of lift that was number 8 that would be drawn in like Times New Roman font, or
causing them to fly higher and go farther than they normally something. Anyway, I popped this in there and, while I’m doing
should have. this, I have this thought in my mind that says, You know, I
And Richard did a prodigious amount of work in exposing all this wonder if the circle makers -- the guys that are doing the crop
stuff. In this 2-part article series, I believe it’s called “Von circles, whoever they are -- would respond to my thoughts and
Braun’s 50-Year-Old Secret”. Anyway, that’s on his website, make a circle based on what I’m thinking about right now,
www.enterprisemission.com. Now it was on the night of, ah, because, as we know in crop circle history, back in 1991, a group
well, he sent me this work as of, I guess, August 5th to review, of people meditated and thought, in August 1991, about the
because, obviously, we want to have our own form of peer Mandelbrot Set , which is a fractal pattern that many of us are
review, since we are peers and we do know things that the other familiar with and the very next day a crop formation showed up
doesn’t know. that had that pattern in the crop.
And I hadn’t had a chance to look at it and then he sent me the And I just, I didn’t want to take, I didn’t want to be arrogant, I
graphic he was going to use to put on the front page of the didn’t want to ask for something, it just was a stray thought that
website and it was a picture of von Braun holding out his hand in went through my mind, but I had intent behind it. I said, That
front of a diagram of the Earth and the Moon and the orbital path would be really cool if a crop formation was made based on what
between them, which kind of looks like half of an infinity loop. I’m thinking about. Well, the very next day was 8/8/8. August
Anyway, I look at this diagram and I say, Richard, I can make 8th, 2008 and, lo and behold, there shows up in the crops a
this look a lot sexier than that. I want to make this really pop out gigantic infinity symbol. Skinnier on the one side, fatter on the
and do this for you. And so he naturally agreed. other side, exactly like the one that I had just posted on to
Richard Hoagland’s webpage the night before in the art that I had
done as we posted this article about von Braun, the Nazis, the
So on the night of August 7th, I finished the diagram in which -- 1950s, the secret space program, all this kind of stuff that’s going
what I did is I put in a moon on the top right, I put in a star field
behind the moon, and then I drew a figure 8 infinity loop between
the Earth and the Moon, so as to illustrate the path that the on behind the scenes.
rockets would go on the way to the Moon. And I also used a
comical image of the Moon: I found an image where there was a So I found this very fascinating. I didn’t do anything with it at the
rocket stuck in the eyeball of the Moon, as if the man on the time. Then I go off, that same weekend, to this dowsing
Moon had been stuck in the eye with the rocket. conference in Vermont. Dowsing is where people use a stick to
find water in the ground. And they wanted me to be their keynote
And so it had some comedy in it, because, of course, it was a speaker. There was, like, 500 people at the conference, it was
black eye on the face of NASA that these mistakes were very well attended and my father was there, he loved what I said.
happening, because time after time they’re spending multimillion It was a family healing, a lot of good things happened but, here I
dollars on these rockets, and then they’re blowing up, and they’re am in the airport and I’m reading about Russia and Georgia at
not reaching their targets and it was very embarrassing. This was war.
in the ‘50s that this was happening.
That basically, the spin was that, Russia created an unprovoked
Richard’s conclusion, of course, is that there’s an antigravity attack against Georgia; whereas, the deeper reality was that
force that was skewing the launch pattern of the rockets, which is Saakashvilli, however you pronounce his name, the President of
the key to antigravity. He does not believe that von Braun knew Georgia, had basically launched an unprovoked, spontaneous
about this before or, if he did, he certainly didn’t know how it attack against innocent civilians in the capital city of South
worked well enough to be able to alter the rockets’ path to make Ossetia, which is this breakaway republic that had been a part of
it work. So anyway, this was the key that could have led to free Georgia and was now claiming allegiance to Russia.
energy and antigravity and all these wonderful things, but,
instead, they had to adapt over multiple failed launches in order So he basically bombs these people and what nobody had
to eventually figure out how to correctly launch rockets and take prepared for -- this is what the insider disclosures have now
these forces into account. revealed -- what nobody had prepared for was that Russia knew
about it in advance, had secret knowledge that they were about to
do this, had disguised all their equipment, so that nobody saw
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that it was waiting there, even though they had shot down various And this has been the most reliable and consistent intel source
airplanes that were in flight when they flew over that airspace, I’ve ever seen as far as politics. This guy makes it very clear that
they still didn’t figure it out. a massive war was planned and that Georgia was what was
supposed to start it and it didn’t work. And, it’s even worse than
The Georgians and, also, you got to remember that there were that -- worse for them, because the Russians drove out the CIA.
war games exercises going on between the U.S. and Israel in They literally ran out of there, they were so scared because such
collusion with Georgia. There was a huge contingent of CIA., amazing military force was brought down upon them so quickly
black ops, military personnel -- all these folks in Georgia. that they literally just ran. And they didn’t have the time to do
Because what they were planning on doing, this is what we now any of the exfiltration techniques that they normally would use to
find out, is using Georgia as a staging area from which Israeli leave an area without having blueprints and footprints behind.
planes would bomb Iran. And this was also involved in the Israeli
faction trying to get McCain to allow Lieberman to be his Vice So what’s happened is Russia has now come into possession of a
Presidential nominee. There was heavy, heavy pressure for him treasure trove of incriminating documents and materials, which
to do that. totally lay bare the collusion between the U.S. and Israel, the
plans for the empire, global empire; the plans for World War III;
And McCain had actually promised them, so these inside sources the plans for internment camps; FEMA camps -- all this kind of
say, that he would, in fact bomb Iran, like, very soon, and hence crap. All the documents are now in the hands of the Russians and
you saw him in that video where he goes, where he’s making fun they are in the process of getting ready to release all this stuff.
of that song Barbara Ann and he’s saying bomb, bomb, bomb, And TBRNews is going to be one of the main sources that it
Iran, you know. So what’s happened is, I’m going off to this comes through, thanks to this one guy, Brian Harring. So this is
dowsing conference -- all of a sudden, we’re at war. If you look it not a joke, you guys. This stuff is real. This is what happens,
up, they say the war starts somewhere between August 7th and yeah?
August 8th and it lasts for 8 days. Well what’s 8 + 8? ... 16.
Bill Ryan: I wondered if I could interrupt you there...
What’s August 16th? The very day that at least 6 or 7 -- well at
least 6 crop formations – flagged; the day of an eclipse; the day D: Absolutely.
in which, where a crop formation was equated with these four
windmills. The idea that we’re going to get off of the oil tit and B: This is fascinating to listen to this very articulate account. It
on to some sort of real energy that’s actually going to be much completely agrees with everything that I understand so I have no
healthier for the environment and won’t require us to have to issue at all with any of your information.
fight over diminishing resources.
D: OK.
So what’s happened is the Russians were involved, they had pre-
existing knowledge, they were shooting down Israeli fighter jets
when they flew over the airspace and they still went ahead and B: Something which I had wondered earlier and I wondered if
did the invasion anyway. There were CIA personnel on hand. you had wondered this as well. I just wanted to knock this around
Nobody foresaw that Russia was going to fight back like this. between us. Earlier on, when Putin did his unprecedented
Because it was right in the middle of the beginning of the interview with CNN, why do you think he didn’t come cleaner
Olympics, if you remember that, nobody wanted to have an with more startling information? Is it he was he was biding his
international incident when everybody’s together in Beijing for time and this is going to come out later. That’s my question.
the Olympics. And yet, all of a sudden, chaos starts to ensue.
D: I think you’re exactly right. There is a vested interest in not
Now again, the original plan was that Russia wouldn’t have a fast tipping the hat too early, because what we’re really dealing with -
response. That this would quickly escalate into a big World War - and this ties in with Benjamin Fulford’s testimony and, thus, the
III type of situation and that, in the melee, they would be able to thrust of your initial question -- is a split in the Nazi party that
find an excuse to bomb Iran and make it ok. Nobody prepared for happened when Hitler decided to go against the Rothschilds in
the fact that Russia was standing by and just blasted the hell out World War II. He killed everybody in all the Masonic lodges all
of Georgia, ripped the country in half and completely demolished throughout Europe. He literally genocided the Masonic lodges. A
the military. lot of people don’t know this.
Now, this guy, who’s been in the White House for years now, There is a website out there -- which is going to be in my article -
coming out with advanced information, well in advance of when - I think if you Google “Scarlet and the Beast” you’ll find it, but
we actually see it in the media; it’s published on a website, which I’m going to have the links in my article. This man has done
is The Barnes Review – TBR: it’s the initials some really amazing research, which includes the fact that Hitler
essentially purged all the Masonic lodges, because he knew that
was the only organization that had sufficient secrecy and
www.TBRNews.org. sufficient motive to be able to organize to bring him down.
You read “Voice of the Whitehouse; you go into the archive on So what ends up happening is that Hitler was originally being
that site. You can read all these disclosures; they come out about financed by, for lack of a better word, the Illuminati, the
every Wednesday and every Saturday, pretty consistently. Rothschild faction of the power elite on this planet. In the attempt
to try to unify Russia and Europe into a single conglomerate
nation, so to speak, and thus the effort was to try to go for a one-
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world government by basically conquering all these countries and What happened was the Rockefellers were able to amass power,
then having alliances. so as the U.S., in the Rockefeller faction, began secretly
financing Hitler’s regime. Hitler himself actually veered away
Well, Hitler was only a puppet. He didn’t have real power but, he from the Rothschilds and more towards the Rockefeller faction.
got arrogant and cocky and started to feel that the power that he’d And thus, in the aftermath of World War II and collapse of the
been extended as a puppet was actually real. I mean, after all he Nazi party, when the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers turned
did command the armies. Everybody -- most people -- thought he against Hitler because he basically was loyal to no one but
was in charge. So why not take the power as being yours? I himself, a good portion of Hitler’s war machine was imported to
mean, he got to the point where he says, What can they do? What the U.S. via Project Paperclip, which was a program that
can they do to stop me? So there was ... Congress justified by saying, If we don’t get these scientists, then
the Russians are going to get them, so we gotta bring them here.
K: It’s a little like George Bush.
Well not only did they bring over their science, like with von
Braun and the rocketry, they also brought over all this other
D: Oh yeah, totally, totally. So what happened is, there was a garbage like these ritual occult stuff, torture techniques that were
split in which Hitler went off on his own and it’s actually not intended to create partitions in the mind for purposes of mind
very well known, but highly well documented and I’ll have this control, which led to the Monarch Mind Control Program, and
in my article as well, that U.S. corporations in large numbers not to mention all of the tools to manipulate a free society into a
were supporting the Nazi party. And this includes Boeing, who fascist dictatorship, which various researchers -- including this
was actually making the bombers. They would have passenger woman named Naomi Wolf -- have asserted is exactly what’s
airliners that they shipped to South America and then they would happened. In fact the neoconservative Bush administration has
ship them to Africa, where the seats were ripped out and the essentially followed Hitler’s playbook right down to the letter. In
decals were put on them and they were turned into the fact the phrasing like “Homeland Security” is very similar to
Wehrmacht bombing fleets. what the German’s called “Fatherland”. And it just goes on and
on and on. I’m not actually an expert in that particular area, but
Then you have the tank plants in Germany that were built by you can research this...
Ford Motor Company and General Motors and, when Allied
bombers destroyed the tank plants, Ford personally repaid Hitler Rothschilds vs. Rockefellers
to rebuild these tank plants. So it’s treason at a level that is
unimaginable to the average person who doesn’t understand that
this whole thing is just a big game. So, again, when you’re dealing with global elite, there’s two
primary negative factions that have been warring with each other
ever since the beginning of the 20th century.
K: Also George Bush Senior, you have to think about the Bush
family and their whole ...
And it goes like this: the Rothschilds created the Rockefeller oil
empire. John D. Rockefeller was financed by the Rothschilds.
D: I’m getting there, I’m getting there. In 1933 Prescott Bush, They said, Go to America, which ... we don’t want to be there.
who was a financier of the Nazi party -- in fact one of the largest You go over there and you start this oil empire and work with us.
bankers for the Nazi party in the U.S. In 1933 he drew up a plan They did not see -- this was part of their lack of foresight -- they
to engage a fascist coup in the U.S. similar to what Mussolini was did not see that oil would become the predominant economic
doing in Italy and Hitler was doing in Germany because he force in the world.
believed it was the best way to stabilize the economy in the
aftermath of the depression. The plan was to oust Franklin
Delano Roosevelt and essentially take over the country with And what happened was, the Rockefellers were able to amass
military force. power. So as the US, in the Rockefeller faction, began secretly
financing Hitler’s regime, Hitler himself actually veered away
from the Rothschilds and more toward the Rockefeller faction.
The BBC, if you can believe it, and I have the links in the article And thus, in the aftermath of WWII and the collapse of the Nazi
you’ll see, the BBC actually did investigative reporting on this, party, when the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers turned against
complete with a radio show, confirming that it’s true; including Hitler because he was basically loyal to no one but himself, a
this General from the U.S., who actually defected and went good portion of Hitler’s war machine was imported to the US via
against the plan and blew the whistle on it. And there was a Project Paperclip, which was a program that Congress justified
Congressional inquiry and it was stopped; but, yet it was very by saying, If we don’t get these scientists, then the Russians are
hush, hush and nothing ever went anywhere, because these guys going to get ‘em. So we gotta bring ‘em here.
commanded a fierce, terrifying amount of power.
Well, not only did they bring over their science, like with von
So, again, when you’re dealing with the global elite, there’re two Braun and the rocketry, they also brought over all this other
primary negative factions that have been warring with each other garbage, like these ritual occult stuff, torture techniques that were
ever since the beginning of the 20th century. And it goes like intended to create partitions in the mind for purposes of mind
this: the Rothschilds created the Rockefeller oil empire. John D. control, which lead to the Monarch Mind Control Program. And
Rockefeller was financed by the Rothschild’s. They said, Go to not to mention all of the tools to manipulate a free society into a
America, which we don’t want to be there, you go over there and fascist dictatorship, which various researchers -- including this
you start this oil empire and work with us. They did not see -- woman named Naomi Wolf -- have asserted is exactly what’s
this is part of their lack of foresight -- they did not see that oil happened.
would become the predominant economic force in the world.
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In fact the Neoconservative Bush administration has essentially And there is nothing else we see in the world except mainstream
followed Hitler’s playbook right down to the letter. In fact, the fundamentalist Christianity that fits that. So, they knew. They
phrasing, like “Homeland Security” is very similar to what the knew that the original positive message of Jehoshua (which is
Germans called “Fatherland”. And it just goes on and on and on. actually the real name of Jesus, bastardized into the name Jesus)
I’m not actually an expert in that particular area, but you can ... Jehoshua’s teachings were positive. They taught service to
research this. Alex Jones ... others. They said, love thy neighbor. They didn’t say, love thy
neighbor, provided that he’s not a faggot, or that he’s not ...
K: We know who is ... Jordan Maxwell ... and we’re planning to
interview him very shortly. You know, I use that derogatory term for a reason, because these
guys have totally lost touch with the Golden Rule. As long as
Occult and Religion you’re not a gay, as long as you’re not having an abortion, as
long as you don’t oppose your country invading other countries,
then you’re God’s chosen. Well, that’s totally negative and
D: Right. And he can fill you in with a lot of this stuff. So everybody sees that now.
anyway, this is all back-story to establish that two essential
factions, both of which are negative, were established. And the
Rothschild faction has always been much more involved with So it was seen long in advance that you were going to have this
ritual magic and the occult. faction that would emerge, that would use the name of
Christianity to do unspeakable acts of evil. And this is exactly
what’s happened.
The Rothschild faction has a spiritual belief that Lucifer is
actually the good guy and that the Christian pantheon threw him
out because they were the bad guys. So they’ve reversed the K: The Neocons.
whole biblical scenario and said, hey, this angel of light who was
God’s most bright angel, was the good guy all along and he got D: The Neocons. That’s right. They are the fulfillment of the
thrown out because he knew the secret of the Tree of Knowledge. Christian prophecy, encoded in the Bible through Gematria,
which is the science of adding up numbers out of the letters, in
Hence, they go all the way back to the account of Adam and Eve which the Antichrist passage adds up to 3160, which translates as
in the Bible and say that we should have eaten from the Tree of Lord Jesus Christ. And they use that term because Jesus didn’t
Knowledge of Good and Evil, that we never should have been want to be named a “Lord.” He didn’t want to be seen as better
banned from eating it. And the reason why this evil god stopped than anyone else.
us from eating from the Tree is because he wants to keep us
repressed, he wants to keep us sexually inoculated, he wants to In the Bible he keeps saying, I’m the son of Man. I’m not the son
keep us free from any real knowledge that would threaten his of God. I’m the son of Man. But there’s all that stuff that he was
power. So you know ... trying to do. And he tried to make it really simple: Love your
neighbor. And then it got all contorted into what we see now.
K: Well this is actually I mean, positive, at the root. This is the
weird thing about it. Masons, anti-Illuminati
D: Yeah, I’m not saying it’s bad. In fact, the Gnostic Christians So, all that aside, the Illuminati faction is the result of the
knew that Christianity was going to become a negative force. conglomerate of different secret societies that would keep kind of
And that’s why, when you go into the Book of Revelation and fading out and dying out and then resurging when people would
you’re reading about the Antichrist, it doesn’t say 666 is the rediscover them ... one of these people being, of course, Francis
number. It actually says six hundred, three score thirty, and six. Bacon, who is the author of the Free Masonic tradition. Most of
And before that little passage, it says, for he who hath ears, let those rites and rituals came from him. He also apparently was
him hear. Now, for anybody who’s a cabbalist, meaning keenly involved in the rewrite of the Bible by King James, which
somebody who knows the secret magical tradition, when it says we call the King James Version. So that’s another feather in the
that little phrase, for he who hath ears, let him hear, it means take cap of the Illuminati , that their founder basically rewrote the
the numerical value of each letter and add ‘em up, and the Bible.
number that you get from this passage is the secret code.
And they also, of course, have all the Shakespearian plays which
So when you add up the passage that describes the Antichrist and ... Francis Bacon took on the pseudonym of “William
the number of the beast as being 666, the number it adds up to is Shakespeare”, which is a cabbala meaning: “Shake the spear of
3160. And that number, in the secret code, is Lord Jesus Christ. the will of the I AM presence.”
So what this -- and I know it’s going to sound crazy, but you can And the real William Shakespeare was a guy who was totally
read all this in a book by John Michell, called The Dimensions illiterate. He couldn’t even sign his own name. He couldn’t even
of Paradise. And when you actually go through the account of write. And when he died, they didn’t find any books in his house.
the Antichrist in the Bible, what it says is that the Antichrist And yet after he died, posthumously, there were many, many
would be wounded on the side and yet did live and fashioned into books, many, many plays published and given his name.
an idol to be worshipped by all peoples, in nations, of all
tongues. So there was a whole team of people writing the Shakespearean
plays. Bacon was in charge of it. He was able to use the plays to
disclose a lot of royal scandals that couldn’t go out in the public,
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because the secret of Bacon is that he was the illegitimate son of you guys interviewed, and others. Greg Szymanski brought in a
Queen Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth was pregnant by Lord Dudley, number of people to talk about that.
who was unpopular, and, therefore, she could not make him her
King. Anyway, what happens is, Francis Bacon and the creation of the
Masonic Order was the beginning of the division against the
And Bacon was raised by one of her maids-in-waiting. And he Rothschilds, who actually were in charge of the ancient royalty
didn’t even realize until he got to be a teenager that Elizabeth was that was still running, you know, right of succession, bloodline
his mother. So, in the process, he gets this Oedipal Complex and stuff, Royal Right of Kings, in these European countries.
falls in love with his mother. And then realizes that she is his
mother and that odious realization is either the plot of Macbeth or So the Masonic Order wanted to break off from that and create a
Hamlet, or one of the most famous ones. I forget which. fraternal organization that wasn’t based on any sort of ancient
bloodline, which is very anti-Illuminati, which is all about the
But all of this stuff that was in those plays was actually blowing bloodline. So they eventually set up shop in the US. The original
the whistle on real scandals in the royalty. So Francis Bacon founding fathers were all Masons, of course.
became very estranged by the royalty. He was thrown out of
England by his mother. He was highly betrayed by her. He was And then what happens is, the Rothschild faction starts to
horrified. infiltrate very soon after America was created. In fact, the War of
1812 was the result of the US side, the Masonic side, trying to
And yet he was given access to the Vatican library, which, of throw off the yoke of the Illuminati. And the King of England
course, poached the library of Alexandria, and things from the was so pissed off about it that he made a hasty attempt to try to
Mayan codices, and all the secret stuff going all the way back to take it back. And it was this failed war that resulted.
Atlantis that we’re not supposed to know, or that they don’t want
us to know. Now, as you go forward in time, you now have the American
Masonic party being one faction, against the Illuminati being the
A New Atlantis other faction. They rejected all the Luciferian blood-drinking
occult rituals. Now, granted, they do have Bohemian Grove.
Well, Bacon discovers that there were plans from Atlantean They do have some of these sacramental things that they go
prophecies to create a new Atlantis. And they even said where it through, which are more ceremonial. But they’re nowhere near as
would be, that it would be this undiscovered land in the western into it as the Rothschild side is.
hemisphere, which they didn’t even know to exist. So he found
maps of the Earth, secret maps, that showed the American K: But I have to interject here, that there is a split within the
continents. Rockefeller faction ...
He was able to secretly inspire the nautical expeditions of the D: Oh, no doubt about it.
conquerors and fooled the people into ... telling them that there
were streets of gold, paved with gold, that even they were pissing K: ... and a major one that involves MJ-12 or, as they want to be
and shitting into gold pots, to try to get people to want to go over called today, the Committee of the Majority, or whatever. And
there. Because, in fact, he realized that there was this great there’s a major war going on between them, within those two
prophecy that America was going to be the new Atlantis, and it factions.
needed his help to fulfill the prophecy.
D: That’s absolutely correct. What I’m trying to do right now is
So America was always intended by Bacon and by the Masons to paint out the picture of the last few hundred years of history so
be the location where they would stage this massive effort to that, when we get to that point, we’ll be able to have that
overthrow the world and make a New World Order, which was discussion. Again, I apologize that this a monologue, but I think
his ultimate goal. most people will find this fascinating.
Now, he was anti-royalty. So what they did is, they created their K: No. You’re doing a great job.
own secret society based on all these ancient rites that had been
lost. And they created all the secret handshakes and all the rituals
and the loyalty oaths where they say, you know, if you blow the D: So, this is the result of extensive research that I’ve done, as
whistle on us, we’ll kill you, and then basically set up shop, you can probably tell. Anyway, what happens is, a very
eventually. It took 300 years, but they moved everything over to significant series of political events occurred, beginning in ...
the US. 1826, I believe, is when it started, somewhere in that
neighborhood. It will be in the article, in probably part 2 or part 3
of the article.
And so the Rothschilds ...
But anyway, the American Masonry grew quite large. You got
K: They also infiltrated the Vatican. favored treatment in business. If you were on the battlefield and
you gave the Masonic great hailing signal of distress, which is a
D: Oh yeah. Absolutely. That’s absolutely true. That goes ... you gesture followed with a verbal statement that you make, then
know, there’re several different levels of testimony that say that, soldiers would rush to your aid. Even if somebody else was in the
including Svali, the Illuminati whistleblower; Leo Zagami, who way, you would get saved first.
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So it gave you the advantage in war. It gave you the advantage in still didn’t even really have railroad transportation yet. All you
business. Gave you advantage socially. You could be lent money really had was horse and buggy, so it wasn’t ... it took a while for
from the Masonic Order and you would be protected against these things to get around.
being brought to trial even if you had committed a crime. Your
crimes would be covered up. So this was very attractive to a lot But what ended up happening was, a massive social revolution
of people. took place. And of 50,000 members in the Masonic Order in
colonial America, 40,000 of them quit and virtually all the
And yet the Rothschild side was infiltrating and the efforts grew Masonic lodges in the north part of the country disbanded. Only a
to the point where the Civil War was constructed. I’m sorry ... very few number in the South actually even stayed operational.
that’s getting ahead of ourselves.
And there was actually a party called the Anti-Masonic Party,
Masonic Revolt which you can look up in Wikipedia, that was formed, which
included some very heavy-hitting names in American history that
Before we get to that, there was a very important Masonic revolt, were a member of this party. And that party later evolved into a
which is a very key element of American history, which has been party called the Whigs, and most people are more familiar with
totally scrubbed from the textbooks because of the Masonic that, if you remember from history classes in school.
influence still wielding as much power as it does. It’s very
important to discuss this. But anyway, what happens is, it actually gets to the point that
there were open hearings on a very high governmental level, in
A man named William Morgan, in the late 1820s, decided that he New York and other states, about the Masonic Order, and they
was not comfortable with Free Masonry because it went against tried to bring the whole thing down. And they were largely
his Christian beliefs. He had ascended to the 3rd degree of successful. It only held on in the South.
Masonry, which ... the first three degrees are called the Blue
Degrees, where you don’t really know very much. And he The Civil War
actually went out and published all this stuff and put it out in a
book. So what did the Rothschilds do next? It took ‘em a number of
years, but they fomented the Civil War, using slavery as the bait,
even though both the North and the South were involved in it.
That was the ticket that they used.
Lincoln was essentially a pawn. He didn’t realize the full extent

of what was going on, and they shot him when he started to
figure out what was happening and didn’t want to go along with
the plan anymore. That’s why Lincoln was assassinated.
Lincoln’s actions ... inadvertently he was pawned into creating
the federal government as we now know it, taking away the rights
of the States and federalizing the American government much
more than it ever had been before.
So at this time in history the Civil War as actually fomented in

order to boost membership into the Masonic Order, which by this
point the Rothschild faction was starting to infiltrate. And that’s
also where you start to get the break between Yorkies and
Scotties -- York Rite and Scottish Rite Masonry.
Well, because he betrayed the Masonic Order, they were required Essentially what happens is, the Civil War massively restructured
by their oath to kill him. And they did. They actually tied a bunch the Masonic Order. The lodges all got rebuilt in the North and the
of rocks to a series of ropes around his waist and basically South because, basically, soldiers didn’t want to die in battle, and
dropped him over the edge of the boat in the middle of the they knew that if they were a member of this group, they would
Niagara River and he drowned. be given preferential treatment to stay alive.
And what happened was, the people who committed this murder, The Federal Reserve
even though they knew that it was part of their oath that they had
agreed to, they didn’t like what happened, and they began to talk So, nonetheless, the American faction, versus the Rothschild
about it and they began to publicize it. And by this point, you faction, still won out and had the prevailing influence. And this
already had the Masonic Order having a stranglehold over the continued right up until the formation of the Federal Reserve in
means of publication, of media, in the country. So it was very 1913, which was a dodgy deceptive move that Fulford talks
difficult for this word to get around. about, which lead to the creation of a fiat form of currency in
which speculative hot air is used to back up the dollar. It was
But back then, you didn’t really have established corporate originally put on the gold standard but even that was being
newspapers and so forth, and mail was brought by Pony Express manipulated and now there’s no gold standard. And that Federal
and those kinds of methods. And in the early 1820s, 1830s, you Reserve is actually run by the Rothschild faction.
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In the meantime, they were cooperating with the US enough to K: Finally. I was getting worried there, I have to say. [Laughs]
establish Rockefeller and his oil empire. And that oil empire
became the driving economic force of this country, which sort of D: No, no. It’s all coming back. It’s all coming back.
became the focal point for all these secret societies and the
Masonic side of things to focus around ... and the seat of power.
In the 1920s there were occult societies in Germany that began to
channel ETs, one of which was the Vril Society, another of which
World War I was the Thule Society. And, in some form or another, this was
realized into an open contact between the German, budding
Now, what then happens is, as you develop into World War I, fascist government, and a group of extraterrestrials called the
you have the Rothschild faction trying to seize world power. You Anunnaki.
have the American faction working against them. This is the
basis of the conflict: are two groups in war, trying to stop each Now these Anunnaki ... according to multiple insider testimonies,
other from doing what they’re doing. we know that they are approximately twice the height of a normal
human being. They wear masks. You can’t see their faces. The
Hitler, World War II protocol is that you are not allowed to look in their eyes, even
though they have a mask on. And their outfits are red and gold in
And of course it didn’t take long before World War I had color. They actually look kind of comical. It’s almost like a battle
devastated Germany. German Marks were so cheap that people outfit, like something you’d see in a video game. And they’re
were carting ‘em around in wheelbarrows just to try to get a loaf huge. I mean, they’re enormous in size. They’re twice our height,
of bread. they’re larger than we are, stronger than we are. They also have
mental powers, telepathy. They can control you to some degree,
the way you think and what you’re going to do. And they don’t
And Hitler was able to rise up in the middle of this collapsed like to be messed with.
economy and create fascism, which people initially supported,
because they wanted to go against whoever they felt was
responsible for bankrupting them. Hitler painted it up as if it was So there was a period of time in which connection was made
the Jews’ fault. So then he got people to be angry at the Jews, just between Germany and the Anunnaki, which lead to the sharing of
like the Bush administration gets us to be angry at the Arabs. So technology. This began some time in the early-to-mid-1930s and
in fact the people did support, to some degree, the attack of the continued until sometime in the early-to-mid-1940s. It was well
Jews. I don’t think most people would have supported genocide if over before the end of World War II.
they knew that’s what was happening. But they certainly were
blaming the Jews for what horrible economic hardships they The initial meeting apparently took place in the Himalayan
endured. Mountains -- it had to be a remote area -- between the Germans
and the Anunnaki. The Anunnaki, again, did share technology
Now, it comes to be the point in World War II, the fallout of with the Germans but they only got a small amount. They got
World War II, that the Rothschilds lost because Hitler turned some antigravity. They got some energy devices, but not a whole
against them and the US. He became his own separate agent. And lot. And so the saucers that they built were fairly crude, as a
he basically as doing whatever he wanted and tried to make the result. However, there was some degree of a sharing of power.
world his way. This is where we get into the New Berlin Base, which is actually
a base that was an Anunnaki base in Antarctica which the
Germans were able to cohabitate with them.
So actually the US and the Rothschild side, the Rockefeller and
Rothschild side, banded up against him -- the enemy of my
enemy is my friend, so to speak – and brought him down. And The Rothschild faction still shares some degree of
the way they got to bring him down was, they got him to march communication with the Anunnaki. They still are in fairly decent
on Russia in winter, Stalingrad, exactly, the city. And his army contact with them, from what I’ve heard. But again, the
completely starved to death in the cold winter, and ran out of Rothschild faction is vastly inferior when it comes to technology.
supplies, and he just destroyed his entire army. They don’t have anywhere near as much stuff as the Rockefeller
side.
And they were able to tweak his ego and get him to do this
because they had broken his code. They knew where he was Roswell and the Looking Glass
going to go and what he was going to do. And Winston Churchill
had to allow London to be bombed, even though he had family And this gets into the Roswell crash. The Roswell crash, 1947, is
there. And he couldn’t telegraph that he knew what was coming, what created the Rockefeller side to become the monster that it is
because it would have tipped off Hitler to what was going on, and now.
they would have lost the war. So that’s the kind of horrific
consequences of knowing the code and not being able to go You have this crash in the desert in New Mexico in which these
public with it yet. little people come out of the ship and they’re all holding these
little cubes in their hands. The little cubes that they were holding
The Anunnaki and the Germans in their hands when they came out were devices that allowed
them to see through time and it interfaced with your
So again, this is still the history, and what we’re getting to now is consciousness. You would think about a particular time and it
the ET stuff. would show up above the little box.
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Our guys got ahold of this technology and were able to game out K: And it’s symbolized by the Egyptians, on the pyramids and so
the future and see what was going to happen, using this on, by the pine cone.
technology. They didn’t necessarily know exactly what would
happen but they could game out the probable futures, based on D: And the all-seeing eye on the top of the pyramid, right, all that
various events, and actually manipulate history by doing this. stuff.
K: OK. You’re saying there was more than one. My So what happens is, the ancient devices that were located in
understanding is there was only one cube, and it’s also known as various places which also could do this, both factions, the
“The Yellow Book.” So it’s important to tell people that. Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, were trying to track these
objects down.
D: Deacon’s testimony is that there was more than one, that more
than one of them was holding one of these things in their hands The Rockefellers got a much more advanced device.
when they came out of the ship. So you can ... it’s just a
difference in opinion, but we know for a fact from multiple
witness testimony, there was at least one. The ancient Looking Glass devices create this sort of amber-
colored cloud, a spherical cloud, that the person operating the
device allows to be a viewer into whatever future timeline you’re
Looking Glass, Pineal Gland, Stargates looking at. So, it kind of looks like a fisheye lens. It’s sort of
distorted around the edges. It’s not clear on the edges, and it’s
And I put together a wide variety of Looking Glass testimony and amber-colored because you’re using argon gas as the sort of like,
determined that, in fact, there are also a variety of ancient the equivalent of like a neon light, to capture the light that shoots
Looking Glass devices, that the same group that landed in through this little barrel in the center. The barrel, again, is based
Roswell - which would be your P-45, ah, no, your P-22 future on the pineal gland. All it is is a barrel of water which is
human lineage extraterrestrials if you go with Burisch’s electromagnetically shielded. And by doing that ...
testimony - that they actually traveled into the past: future
ancestors of humans after 2012 where there was a very small Bill Ryan: Just to add a footnote to that ... We have some
gene pool -- that they traveled into the past and they built these diagrams of that which had been drawn by Dan Burisch on our
devices which actually reverse-engineered the pineal gland in the site, on which we have a link to those papers. It’s called Project
brain. Looking Glass. I think you’ve probably got those as well. This is
the original Looking Glass device that was deciphered from the
The pineal gland in the brain is at the exact geometric center of cuneiform tablets. Is that correct?
the brain. It is a small area of water which has microclusters in it.
Microclusters are little geometric clusters of minerals. And this D: Correct. That’s correct. And, again, there are a couple of other
water is shielded by the surrounding gland, electromagnetically. witnesses, one of whom is online, and has published things
online. I have not released his identity yet. But there is a multiple
And apparently the technology is so absurdly simple that all you number of converging testimonies that made this case come
have to do is shield off water from the conventional together for me. And I believe each of these sources is credible.
electromagnetic energy that we have in space/time and the water
starts to be a gate into time/space, which is a realm in which So what we’re dealing with is, when the Roswell crash happened,
time is just a direction you can point yourself in and travel they got a much more advanced version of the technology.
through. And it’s an inversion of space, so that space becomes Because the Yellow Disk, or the Cube, as it’s called ... the reason
time and time becomes space. So you move through space here why it’s called the yellow disk is that, when you fire it up, there
and you’re moving through time over there. was a little, kind of yellow cloud that was disk-shaped, that
would appear on top of this little cube.
Apparently multiple ... and you actually have Gordon Novel in
one of your testimonies that said the same thing, that, when a ship The cube itself is about 5 or 6 inches wide. It looks like brushed
creates antigravity, in so doing, it’s actually moving through time aluminum metal on the outside, with sort of a raised edge around
by traveling through space as we know it. the edges. It’s about one inch wide around the edges. It actually
looks like the cube in the movie, Hellraiser. It looks like the cube
And thus they didn’t want to let this technology out, for one of in the movie, The Last Mimzy. And that movie, Last Mimzy, is
the reasons being they believed it would collapse the economy basically an infomercial for everything that Burisch has been
because people would see what was coming and there would be saying, which means either that the producers of the movie were
no speculation in the markets any more. big, big Burisch fans, or Burisch is actually telling us the truth,
and these people are trying to disclose that same information
So, be that as it may, we all have this stargate in our own brain, because they want humanity to know.
which we access primarily through meditation, stilling of the
mind, allowing the obstructions to fall away so we get this sort of K: Well, we’d say, not OR he’s telling the truth. It’s AND he’s
natural intuitive bubbling-up, which most people think of telling the truth.
daydreaming. They don’t think that it has any value. But when
you go into that meditative state where thoughts just naturally D: Yes, yes. It’s both. In my opinion it’s both.
surface into your mind without really having to work for them,
that’s actually the feed from your subconscious, super-conscious,
which comes through the pineal gateway. K: Well, we’d say, not OR he’s telling the truth. It’s AND he’s
telling the truth.
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D: Yes, yes. It’s both. In my opinion it’s both. it also helps you to understand how these people became racists
in the first place.
Aliens after Roswell
K: OK, David, I want to interrupt here to say that there are other
So, the Roswell crash was actually a really unfortunate accident beings that don’t look, per se, “humanoid.” And I’m assuming
insofar as The Cube got into the hands of the Rockefeller faction. that you’re going to go with the notion that the Grays are a
And, as a result of them also taking captivity of a live robotic race.
extraterrestrial, a relationship, a diplomatic relationship, was
opened up with other human extraterrestrials. D: Well, when I say “human” ... I mean, there’s some variance in
what we say by human, but in essence, you have a head, eyes,
Now, when I say “human extraterrestrial,” what I mean is, nose, mouth, ears, arms, legs, fingers, toes ...
according to Deacon’s testimony, that you have, in Deacon’s
view, it’s somewhere in the neighborhood of over 40 races. And, K: OK. But you’re missing the reptilian faction.
of course, we know from Sgt. Clifford Stone, he was aware of 57
different races, which he called the “Heinz 57.” D: Even if there is a reptilian faction, they’re still essentially
reptilian humanoids.
All of these various people look like us. You don’t have people
with funny, ridgy foreheads like the Klingons in Star Trek. You K: True, except they do have ridges and so on. In other words,
don’t have people with anything other than basically smooth there’s also the ones that look preying mantis. You know, there
faces and smooth skulls. Most of them have hair. They vary in are other beings out there that do not look humanoid. They have
height, from about a foot-and-a-half tall, to 12-to-14-feet tall, arms and legs and, yes, a head, and if you call that ... it’s a very
which would be your Anunnaki. loose interpretation of “humanoid.”
They vary in skin color from jet black, to dark green, to light D: All I can say is that, from extensive communication with
green, to light orange, to all variations of Caucasian, everything Henry Deacon, and the testimony of Sgt. Cliff Stone, both of
you see on the Earth. In fact, the only group that apparently is not them are saying that everybody looks essentially human. Deacon
represented is black people on Earth. Black people on Earth may is unaware of any reptilian species. I asked him that point-blank.
be indigenous to this planet, and that may be partially responsible He says he’s not aware of any group like that. Doesn’t mean they
for some of the racism in these occult groups. don’t exist, but he’s not aware of any group like that.
I don’t subscribe to that at all [To the racism in the occult K: OK, but Deacon is not, you know, the authority on the planet.
groups]. In fact, if anything, it shows how precious, and special,
and unique the black people are because they are actually the
people that Earth made before everybody else was brought here. D: I’m not saying he is.
Because there is a large amount of, sort of, drop-offs of various
races that were brought here pretty much at the same time. K: He just ... He worked in black ops.
At one point Henry sent me an article from the BBC showing that D: I’m not saying he is
everybody who’s a white person on Earth, with blue eyes, traces
back to a single ancestor from about 11,000 years ago, which is K: So he has limited information because the lie, as Hoagland
perfectly in accordance with what’s in a variety of occult says, is different at every level. And he his need to know didn’t
teachings. even extend to Majestic 12.
In fact, Hitler’s whole obsession with the so-called “master race” D: And I do believe that there are humans who evolved from
is based on the fact that the Germans were interacting with other reptilian genetic stock. In fact, the first documentation I ever
human extraterrestrials, and a fair number of them are blond- heard about was in 1993, from a friend of mine, whose physics
haired and blue-eyed. So he thought that this was some sort of professor had worked for NASA through the ‘70s. And they
advanced race that he wanted to move people on Earth towards, described 3 essential different types of ET they’d found.
or at least his chosen people.
The tallest of which essentially looked like us -- human being,

And, again, this is idiocy. What you look like, or what race you normal human being more or less. Some slight variances in the
are, has nothing to do with how spiritual you are or how color of the irises, the shape of the pupil, the shape of the teeth,
advanced you are, at all. In fact, on a DNA level, they’ve now that kind of stuff, but more or less the same.
proven there’s not even any genetic marker that allows you to
easily distinguish one race from another. And based on the fact
that DNA is an interface with your spiritual body, what really The middle height was your typical Gray.
matters is the development of the soul, not the genetic heritage
you come in with. The shortest of which looked like a Gray, but the head was
actually a helmet. And when you removed the helmet, there was
So this whole bloodline argument is Old World science that has something underneath that they would only refer to as a
no basis in fact. And I just want to make that very, very clear. But monstrosity. And although I never got confirmation that that
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monstrosity was a reptilian face, there are other witness includes wonderful consciousness-raising things. And you can
testimonies that seem to assert that that’s what it is. actually read the Betty Andreasson material for that. Now, some
of those people may be afraid when they go through this.
So, I do have reason to believe that you do have some humans
who are evolved from a reptilian genetic base, and that they On the other hand, you have a negative faction, which is probably
basically tend to be the more self-serving and negative types. these reptilian-genetic-stock humans. And that faction is wearing
fake masks to look like the other group ... which is why, you
Rifts in Space/Time, Abductions know, the guy said that it looked like a Gray and you pull the
mask off and underneath it was a monstrosity. And they’re
actually faking out the same procedure which is being done for
In fact, you know, one of the things that Deacon’s testimony said, positive purpose. Except that when they do it, they’re terrifying
which I don’t think he’d mind me sharing, is that when we mess people, and they’re scaring people, and it’s a lot more unpleasant.
around with these wormholes, when we create these vortexes for And those, actually, are much less frequent. So you have to
traveling through space and time, you get something called a rift, clarify.
and these nasty things can fly through the rift.
There’s two different types of things going on. One is something
And what he meant when he said nasty things fly through the rift, that people volunteer for from before they’re born, and it’s
is these UFO beings that actually are doing the abductions, and essentially kept as positive a possible. The other is the negative
then kind of try to set up shop once they’re here, and make little trying to impersonate the positive, and thus making the whole
bases and, try to, you know, stay here. thing look like all it’s just a whole bunch of scary, terrifying
stuff. That’s what my research has concluded over the last 12
Because otherwise, there is a quarantine around the Earth, so he years of looking into this.
says, and they can’t get through. But when our guys create these
portals, these stargates, if it’s not done properly, then you can B: I would agree with you.
create a crack in the shield, and that’s one of the problems that
can happen.
D: Oh, ok. Good, good. Yeah. So there’s both types. So anyway,
let’s try to veer this back into current events, because that’s what
But again, from the Law of One philosophy, perspective, which is all this back-story is for.
my philosophical background, you’re not going to be abducted
unless you have actually invited it by being consistently unclear
in your orientation as to whether you are service-to-self or Again, the Rothschild side had limited interaction with the
service-to-others. Anunnaki. It lasted for maybe about a decade and then it cut off.
They got a limited amount of technology, which wasn’t very
effective. And that’s all they were able to get.
So most people have not been abducted. If you have been, it’s
probably not something you’re going to remember anyway. And
it’s not really ... it’s not causing people excessive damage. I don’t Then the Rockefeller side got the Roswell crash after World War
believe that people are being killed in these abductions. It’s II, shortly thereafter. They got access to a time-viewing
certainly not something that’s pleasant, and I wouldn’t want to technology called Looking Glass. In contacting these ETs, they
have one. were able to discover that this technology existed from the past,
and that it could be found. And these ancient devices were
actually the ones they predominantly started using. That’s the one
B: Are you saying that you believe that people who have been that Dan Burisch apparently has had the most experience with, is
abducted are -- this is not to put words into your mouth; maybe the ancient device.
you can correct me -- have in some way a spiritual or
psychological weakness, which imperfection has given them that
vulnerability? Is this actually what you’re saying? 2012
D: I believe there are two different types of abductions going on, Now, this dovetails into Burisch’s testimony, insofar as ... his
one of which I would actually call “contact” more than level of the pyramid, which he admits is probably
abduction. compartmentalized and he also doesn’t know everything, is that
humanity has a big event that happens in 2012. From the
perspective of these future humans, most of the people were no
It seems that what’s happening is that, part of the game is from longer here.
the good guys, if you want to classify ET groups as good and
bad. And the good guys are trying to keep a human stock of
genetic material, on the offhand chance that they were not able to A small group survived. And they broke off into two groups, one
prevent a disaster, which is still very unlikely, but they don’t of which had underground bases, the other of which survived on
want to take any chances. On the offhand chance that something the surface.
went horribly wrong, they would have a genetic stock of human
DNA sufficient to recreate a human gene-pool, and allow this The people in the underground bases turned into what we would
grand experiment of human evolution to continue. now think of as Grays, as a result of evolutionary changes that
occurred, based on their environment and where they went. And
Now, those people appear to have volunteered for this before the other group essentially turned into the Nordics, which look
they were born. Every effort is made to not scare them. Every essentially human, but have the more conventional characteristics
effort is made to give them a pleasurable experience, which also you’d associate with Nordic sightings: blond hair, blue eyes,
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perfect bodies, you know, that kind of thing. Telepathic guys is not really important. The point is, some people might
communication. choose to stay here. Some people choose to go through this.
So Burisch’s testimony, as you guys are well aware, is that they I don’t believe everybody dies. I believe that there is a shifting of
have these certain node points in time that they can travel the ways, and that people go in different directions at this point.
through. They seem to be approximately 9,600 years apart, which And a lot of the stuff I heard from Henry and from my other
I discovered is exactly ¼ of the Earth’s cycle of the Precession of contact, Daniel, all seems to support this.
Equinoxes, which is apparently the grand cycle that our
dimensions move through as we travel from one dimension to So anyway, getting back to what’s going on right now, and the
another ... if you believe all that stuff. election, and how this relates to insider politics: You have this
Rockefeller faction in which the splinter group of the Nazis
Anyway, there’s these various harmonic points that they can comes over here ... Project Paperclip. They come into possession
travel through, one of which is 45,000 years in the future, another of wonderful technology.
of which is 52,000 years in the future. And I may be wrong on
that 9,600 year figure. I have to look back ... And they’re all interconnected with the military-industrial
complex, which very quickly breaks itself off from the
B: I looked at that. I actually thought it was two-thirds of that, government, and becomes its own separate entity in and of itself,
because I spent some time looking at this, and thought it was guided over by this Rockefeller faction, which in essence, does
6,400. not support Luciferian philosophy at all. If you talk to Burisch,
which I have, they’re very against the Illuminati, in fact, and
D: I think that’s what it is. I think t believe that they’re actually fighting the Illuminati and trying to
stop the Illuminati from creating an antichrist figure that would
be like a world leader.
hat’s what it is.
So Burisch has said to me that they had a Do not ask, do not tell
B: OK. policy similar to gays in the military, where they would have
meetings with the Illuminati at these groups called the Committee
D: But anyway, the numbers aren’t that important. The important of the Majority. And as long as the Illuminati never talked about
part is there is a sub-harmonic of this master cycle that appears to their Luciferian beliefs or their desire for an Antichrist,
be driven by the sun. And, at certain points in that cycle, there’s everything would be fine. But if they even brought it up at all, it’s
an aperture that allows them to easily travel through time. And like, to hell with you, the meeting’s over, we’re out of here.
that’s when they’re all doing it.
And that’s basically ... it’s sort of like this polite Mexican
So that’s why we only have certain groups of our future coming standoff that has existed, where one group, the Rockefeller side,
back in time to help us. Or so they say, they’re helping us. And has vastly superior technology and could actually, in fact, create a
from that perspective, some of the abductions are the harvesting fake alien invasion, if they so desire. Now, that gets into whether
of genetic material for the purposes of rejuvenating the future in fact the ETs on the outside would allow them to do that, or
human stock, which had gotten really watered down by the low whether it would actually be stopped. And I don’t know the
population that they started with. answer.
And, of course, underground bases and people surviving on the Torsion technology, weather wars
surface ... what you’re probably dealing with here is these power
groups that actually do have the underground bases and the And you also have to factor in that the Russians, completely
technology. independently of all this other stuff, had their own progression of
technology, in secret, which began with the work of Alexander
So, we also find out that the Rockefeller side learns about 2012 Gurwitsch in the early 20th century and was realized more fully
and that there’s some big event happening that will essentially by Nicolai Kozyrev -- the science of scalar waves, or what I call
change life on the surface of the Earth very dramatically. And as “torsion fields.”
a result, they create a vast ... they start creating a vast network of
underground bases. It’s obvious the reason why they did this, to And with these torsion technologies, they have a means in which,
create a whole civilization, essentially, underground, is that they basically, all conventional war is obsolete. They can create
did not feel that the surface of the Earth would be viable to live massive hurricanes. They can create earthquakes. They can knock
on. anything out of the sky, including the fake ET craft.
Now again, this gets into doom-and-gloom-sounding stuff. And I And so I don’t really think that the fake alien invasion could ever
just want to make clear that my personal opinion is that the 2012 happen, because the Russians could just pick ‘em off like flies
event refers to shifting in the energetic frequency, which will out of the sky with this torsion technology. So that’s one of the
allow most of us on Earth to live in a parallel existence that is no ways in which I think we’re protected from these greater
longer on the physical plane. incursions ever happening.
It appears that some people don’t go through that, and those are K: But the torsion technology also comes from Wilhelm Reich,
the people who survive. Now whether they’re good guys or bad and the US side has that technology as well.
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D: Oh, they definitely have it to some degree. But what I’m So, I see this ship under the ocean, and it launches a missile, and
saying is it appears that the Russians have a more advanced form hits the battleship. And everybody’s like, reeling on the
of it. And that’s also what Colonel Thomas Bearden has said, that battleship. And George Bush starts going nuts and saying, Oh my
the Russian side is much more evolved and advanced than what god! We’ve been attacked and everybody needs to rally around
the US side has. me because we gotta protect this country.
And that’s actually been realized, in this ongoing undisclosed war So I realized this was some kind of prophecy about an attack
of weather, which has involved hurricanes attacking the US, in a against the US. I didn’t know what form it would take, but then it
quiet war that nobody knows is a war, which has been used at became very clear, through additional data, that it was this
various politically opportune moments, including 2005, with ... I hurricane that was bearing down on New Orleans [Hurricane
believe that was the one where Katrina happened that year, Gustav, 2008]. The purpose of that hurricane, in my opinion, was
among the others which were steered, obviously. And Richard to throw off the Republican National Convention, which it did.
and I did a paper about that.
McCain / Palin
You know, you have these four different hurricanes that land
over the exact same part of Florida. And the statistical And then, once everybody fled, and the Republican National
impossibility of something like that is akin to ... you’re standing Convention was thrown off into disarray as a result of McCain’s
out of your second floor bedroom window, and you have a hula astoundingly-bad decision to take on Palin ... and I have multiple
hoop on the ground, and you drop four feathers out of the sources that Palin was not supposed to be picked by Rove or by
window, in sequence, and they all land inside the hula hoop. The the Israeli side, which is the two basic sides at work now. The
likelihood of that actually happening is so remote. And yet, that’s Israeli side wanted Lieberman. The Rove side wanted Romney.
what happened. Nobody even knew who Palin was. Nobody was even
considering it seriously.
And, in fact, at one point, whoever has this hurricane-making
technology created a big number “2” inside the hurricane when it But like ... in a similar way to what Adolph Hitler did in World
was at a magnitude of 2. And the number 2 is a perfect aerial War II -- and in no way am I trying to say that McCain is Hitler –
font. I mean, it looks perfect. And it rotates with the eye of the but ... it’s another example of somebody who believes that the
hurricane. It was covered on the front page of Drudge Report. power he’s been given is his own, doesn’t respect the fact that it’s
The actual footage of it is still on that website where it was essentially a puppet Presidency. And he goes and makes a
originally featured ... some local news site in Florida. And I have maverick decision -- which he calls himself a maverick -- and
the link for that somewhere, which is in one of my articles. But goes against his own party’s wisdom and makes this pick, which
this stuff is real and ... ...
K: Well, it’s happened in China as well, with the ... Astonishingly enough, within days after the pick was made, they
were already having to do a very embarrassing public disclosure
D: Oh, yeah! of this woman’s daughter being pregnant when she’s, like, 17
years old. And she’s supposedly the “Family Values” candidate! I
K: ... with the earthquake. So it’s going on beyond the shores of don’t think that was ever supposed to be brought out. It was one
the US. of these terrible political gaffes.
D: Right. And it appears that the guys at the helm pulling the B: And she’s actually stated on record that in Iraq the US is
levers on this are not the Russians, but, rather, the Japanese fighting “God’s war.”
mafia, the Yakuza. And they apparently leased it or bought it,
bought the technology from the Russians, and have been the ones D: Ah. My God! I know! It’s such a fiasco! And we all need to be
... according to Bearden; they’re the ones that cooked up these very blessed about this, happy about this. Because this is the
hurricanes. collapse of this 50-year Nazi game to try to take over this
country, enact martial law, send people off to concentration
You can see on the infrared footage how our guys are trying to camps ... which they call FEMA camps now.
draw lines of heat in the air to try to deflect the hurricane [on the
Sept 30, ’05 TBRNews archive - Ed]. But it doesn’t really work Current time: The World vs. the Rockefellers
very well because the Russian-made technology is much more
advanced. And none of this stuff is going to happen. I believe Fulford’s
testimony is entirely accurate. The other world societies, secret
And again, I believe that this was exactly what was being ... I had societies and so forth, governments of the world, have kind of all
a dream not too long ago. This gets back into the present allied. And this includes the Rothschild faction.
moment, the politics around this election.
But, you know, you kind of have like a Middle East-Arab faction,
I had a dream where I was on a the surface of a destroyer ship. which is sort of its own entity. You have the Eastern Secret
And George Bush was there. And all of a sudden we look down Society faction, which is like Japan, China, and many of the
into the ocean and we see that ship from the Stargate: Atlantis Southeast Asian countries. And then you also have the Rothschild
show, the Pegasus, which, in that show, it’s like America’s most faction. And they kind of have a truce and an alliance right now.
advanced alien-derived technology.
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And everybody’s focused on knocking out the Rockefeller side, Brzezinski and Obama
because the Rockefeller side is the big bully on the block. They
have the most advanced technology, by far, and therefore it’s K: OK. But you have to get around to Brzezinski and the fact that
dangerous. his whole M.O. is to bring down Russia.
B: I want to ask you about Putin. I think I know what your D: Sure.
answer is going to be, but ... is he his own man? Or is he
controlled, as part of the dialectic?
K: But his candidate is Obama. And they’re actually at war,
within the Rockefeller side, with the, you know, McCain, you
D: I believe he’s his own man. I have to align with what Fulford know, Neocon faction.
is saying on this subject. Because it appears that Putin really did
overthrow the Illuminati and got them out of his country. And
that’s part of why he’s been so scorned in the media. D: Right. I agree. I agree. Now, the Brzezinski thing is a very
interesting and controversial angle. And I’ve had extensive
conversation on the phone with Richard Hoagland about this.
Do you guys ... have you guys read any of the Edgar Cayce stuff? Because, as I’ve said before and I’ll say again, I’ve had extensive
Do you remember his quote: From Russia will come the hope of dream data telling me that Obama is one of the good guys.
the world?
And then you’d say to yourself, OK if he’s a good guy, then why
K: Yeah. in the world would he bring in Brzezinski? And Richard and I
have talked about this. And Richard’s opinion, which I agree
D: I think this I what he’s talking about. I really do. Because with, is: You keep your friends close, and you keep your enemies
what’s happened is ... Georgia, again, was supposed to bomb closer.
South Ossetia. And this was all being orchestrated by Israeli and
US factions, CIA and so forth. What better way to know what they’re planning and what they
want to do, than to have the guy there in your cabinet? You hear
Now, again, here’s another interesting side-note on that, bringing his side of things, and you hear what he wants to do, because
in the Israel component. Israel, of course, was a state that was you’re smart enough not to be manipulated by him. Now,
created in an effort to provide reparations to the Jews for what granted, he’s taken a lot of heat for it. And lot of people think that
happened in World War II. Now, you’ve read testimony from he buys into Brzezinski’s beliefs, but I don’t believe that at all.
Svali. I’m sure you’ve seen this, where she says the Illuminati
absolutely despise Israel and want to see nothing more than it to And again, I think when he picked Joe Biden as his VP, it’s a
be completely wiped out. That‘s the Rothschild side. political decision that was made because he’s trying to win an
American election. And it’s a dirty game, it’s not easy, and it’s
So what happens, again, is, the Rockefeller side and the Israelis ugly.
actually banded up and they’ve joined forces, and they’re using
the same tradecraft that Hitler had, that the Rothschilds But I honestly don’t think that, just because he’s got his enemy in
developed, to try to do it over here in the US. the camp, that means that he’s agreeing with everything his
enemy says at all.
So, it’s like both sides using the same type of technology,
including creating a fake invasion of your own country ... a fake I think ... Richard and I are unanimous in this, in agreeing that the
attack, the 9/11 ... which, in Hitler’s case, was the bombing of his extent of change that Obama actually wants to create is much
parliament building, which he blamed on Poland, and then more than he’s actually been saying so far. And, from what I can
proceeded to invade Poland. tell, the insiders are terrified about Obama ever becoming
president.
We blamed it on the Arabs, predominantly Iraqis and the
Afghanis, even though most of the hijackers were Saudis. And Rockefellers vs. Rothschilds, political parties
they don’t even seem to have anything to do with it, except that
they were puppets. And we know a lot about that, which we don’t
need to go into. And you’re seeing a massive media effort to try to frame this
election as if it’s an even run between McCain and Obama, which
is ludicrous. It’s ludicrous.
But anyway, the point being, that the Israelis are now very
involved in the Rockefeller faction. And Fulford’s testimony is
that David Rockefeller himself is no longer in control of this, And we know for a fact, from the TBRNews source, that these
either. polls are faked, that they’ve been faked for a long, long time.
You call up 700 people in the reddest Republican state, who you
know are the most likely to be brainwashed fundamentalists.
It really does seem to be, from some of the testimony that Dr. And, even in those cases, only, like, 50% of ‘em are saying
Stephen Greer has come out with, that, believe it or not, the guy they’re going to vote for McCain. And that’s where you’re
who is at the top of everything is George Bush, Sr. And Cheney. getting your 50/50 dead-heat from.
And these guys are ... That’s the tippy-top of this Rockefeller side
now, more than the Rockefellers anymore.
And, let me point out something else which I find highly
fascinating. Burisch has said, and you guys both know this, so
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I’m preaching to the choir here, that because of the onrushing And yet, unfortunately, they know on the inside, that if the
2012 event ... which, incidentally, the Rockefellers kept secret masses were to find out what’s going on, in large numbers, that
from the Rothschilds until relatively recently. the lynch-mob would be out immediately. And that’s not really a
viable solution.
The Rothschilds had their own plan to dominate the world, and
take over, and create their Illuminated New World Order circa That’s one of the things that Fulford is talking about. Fulford is
2020, somewhere in that region. And it’s now been thwarted, describing how, even though it’s basically checkmate for the
because there’s not going to be a 2020 with any world the way Rockefellers, as of September 30th , they’re being called to come
that we know it. And the Rockefeller side knew this and they up with this debt that they owe from when the Reagan
deliberately withheld that information from the Rothschilds up administration overthrew the Soviet Union and pillaged all their
until fairly recently. money by bombarding them with fake Russian ruble currency. It
was a very successful operation, which allowed the massive
So what’s happened is, the Rothschild side has run out of time to siphoning out of the Russian wealth to the Rockefeller faction, to
bring their agenda forward. They were promoting Hillary Clinton the tune of, you know, trillions and trillions of dollars.
as the Presidential candidate. Because, in essence, what’s been
happening in American politics for the last 50 years, is that you And now that money is being demanded to be paid back; they
get the Rothschilds running the Democrat side and you get the don’t have it. And so what Fulford is saying is these Eastern
Rockefellers running the Republican side. Secret Societies are essentially holding the Rockefeller side at
gunpoint saying, Look, if you guys don’t do this, we’re going to
And there has been a shooting war between these two sides, hurt you and we have the ability to do that, and it basically
including who gets to control the CIA, who gets to control the amounts to, you know, them getting a loan because nobody wants
FBI, the NSA, the NRO, all these different groups. And it’s been to see the American economy collapse, because it’s all
a constant contentious battle of the intelligence agencies in terms international now. There’s no real national economy anymore.
of who gets to run what. These countries are all multinational, so the wealth will be
redistributed so that there’s no collapse.
And, of course, the Rothschilds side wanted to try to collapse the
Rockefellers’ oil empire by promoting things like, you know, the But the main key now is how do you effectively neuter and
Green movement, the global warming movement, Al Gore’s silence the influence of this proto-Nazi faction that has taken up
Inconvenient Truth. Gore was, of course ... I think he’s a root in predominately the secret government of the U.S. And this
maverick too. I think he might have been in it in the beginning ties back in with the crop circles and with August 16th and why
and now he’s broken away from it. the crop circles flagged that particular date as being important.
Again, you see one of the crop circles showing up next to these 4
windmills, suggesting something on August 16th has to do with
But it’s very fascinating. There is actually a Fox News video clip the overthrow of the oil economy.
that I will have in this article I’m writing tonight on my website,
www.divinecosmos.com , in which Lady de Rothschild is
interviewed by Fox News. And she is slagging the heck out of Then again you see the fact that on August 7th, the day that the
Obama. war started, I published this picture on Richard’s website of
Wernher von Braun, a Nazi scientist, who came to the U.S. and
started this whole problem. And I had an infinity symbol in that
And she tried to create this website, did create this website, picture which then shows up as a crop formation the very next
which I believe is called together4us, [ http://together4us.com/ ] day on 8/ 8/ 8. And that crop formation counted out the days to
which is basically trying to get those 18 million people who August 16th. It’s the number 8, there was 8 days to the 16th, and
wanted to vote for Hillary to rebel and try to throw the election also showed the phases of the moon in the diagram according to
back in her favor. www.Cropcircleconnector.com , and the researchers on that site.
And this is ... the name Rothschild is right there on the screen. Ok, fast forward to September 1st, I’m going to bed at night. This
This woman talks for four or five minutes straight about this. is an unbelievably fascinating side note to the story and it’ll kind
She’s very charged about it, definitely does not want to see of tie off my big point here. September 1st I’m getting ready to
Obama to be President. She disses him hard. And she’s basically go to bed and I hear a very distinct message come in. And the
trying to promote the candidacy of Hillary. message says, Open up the Law of One series, book III, to page
100 and read it. And this is very unusual. This is not something
Amnesty that normally happens to me. So I go get book III, I pop it open to
page 100 and it didn’t seem to be anything important.
Now, again, I don’t have any problem with somebody being
affiliated with a particular family lineage or a particular occult It’s was talking about this cycle in which they say that you count
group. I certainly wouldn’t recommend that anybody do that. But 18 days at a time from when you’re born and, that during the first
at the same time, I believe that hating these people is not the 9 days of the cycle, your spiritual and psychic abilities will be
answer. I think it’s important that we acknowledge that they’re higher. And during the second 9 days of the cycle, your spiritual
out there, and that we prevent them from doing things to harm abilities will wane. And they say everybody is affected by this
humanity. cycle. That you start counting from the day you’re born, you
count right up to the present, to figure out where you are. They
But we also can’t genocide them, because that‘s the same say your single best 3 days are days 4, 5 and 6 in the cycle and,
playbook that’s been causing so many problems on the Earth. that at the turning points of the cycle, you have the most trouble.
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They also say that the more spiritually balanced you become, the Now, I agree with you guys and with what your sources are
more this cycle doesn’t affect you anymore. Now, I’ve read about saying. There will probably be other attempts. There undoubtedly
this all the way back in January 1996. I never felt compelled to will be other attempts to create some sort of chaos between now
try to crunch the numbers to figure out where I was in the cycle and the election. To try to sway it in McCain’s favor; however,
because it didn’t seem that big of a deal to me at the time. I just given the astonishing synchronicities that I’ve seen, the crop
never even thought about it and, all of a sudden on September formation with the number 8, right?; describing the drawing that
1st, I’m told read book III, page 100 and this is what it says. I’d just made the night before and published for the world to see
on www.enterprisemission.com ; the fact that this 720 cycle of 18
So I went to sleep, I didn’t think anymore of it. Two days later days happened on the exact day that McCain’s campaign said that
I’m going to bed, again, the message comes in again, Open up Sarah Palin’s daughter was pregnant; the fact that , that other
book III and read page 100. Ok, fine. So I open up book III. Not crop formation that pointed to August 16th was drawn directly
surprisingly it’s exactly the same information: 18 day cycle. I next to a bunch of windmills that generate wind electricity -- all
say, Ok, this is getting too weird. I go over to the computer. I get of these signs seem to be showing that we’re heading towards a
on Google and I type calculate days since birth. And I looked for positive future.
some kind of software that would allow me to do that. Sure
enough I find this little thing. It’s a Java Script that you can Plus, I’ve had several dreams which seem to indicate that, though
install on your webpage, tells you exactly how many days it’s these things will be attempted, that they’re not actually going to
been since you were born. pan out. They will attempt to crash the economy. It will be
successful to some degree. We’re probably going to see a pretty
I punch up the number and, to make a long story short, the day horrifying market vomit happen very soon. We’re probably going
that I was first asked this question, Go to book III, read page 100, to see more attempts made to create some kind of war. I don’t
it had been exactly 12,960 days since I was born. Divide that think it’s going to be successful. So, now you’ve heard my very
number by 18 and you get exactly 720 cycles, precisely, of these longwinded diatribe on all these events. [Laugh] And I’m hoping
18 days since when I was born. 720, of course, is 2 times 360. to, whatever you’d like to talk about from here.
360 is the number of degrees in a circle and the crop formation
that came from my thoughts and from the article I did from K: OK, I think that’s great David. You’ve certainly been very
Richard, three weeks earlier, was in fact 2 circles. clear as to where you’re coming from, your sources, more or less,
and what you think is going to happen. I do think that there’re
So this just, this was mind-blowing. And then I’m saying how in some gaps in there. One of which is the technology that you say
the world did my – because, consciously, I had no idea -- how the Rothschild side DOESN’T have. I have to say personally I’m
could I have known that such a perfect round number as 720, that pretty suspicious of that. I do have my own sighting in
it was that number of 18 cycles since I was born, on that exact Switzerland to use as documentation, if you will, of a craft that
day. And yet, on that exact day, I’m told to go read that exact was extremely sophisticated and was built by us, so to speak,
page in the book where it describes that cycle. meaning humans.
So then I’m thinking ok, what the heck does this mean? And it D: Right.
was on that exact day that McCain’s campaign had to admit that
Palin’s daughter was pregnant. And so I believe that, with all B: It could have come from anywhere on the planet, probably in
these different levels of synchronicity tied together, that what I’m about half an hour.
being shown is that these are history-making events. And you go
back into the inside testimony of what happened on August 16th, K: Exactly.
it may turn, we know that’s the day that Russia won the war.
D: Yeah, exactly. [Laughter from Bill and David]
That by that time all the CIA had completely fled. They left
behind all their toys, all their documents, all their secret junk.
Russia now has possession of that and BELIEVE me, they intend K: Absolutely, but I just, there’s something about that that
on publishing everything. They are going to make it public. It’s doesn’t ring right for me and, you know, obviously, I understand
not going to be kept secret. It’s going to blow the whistle on the how you’re saying the Rockefeller side, I mean it is, that could be
whole thing. And I already thought this was amazing enough, but substantiated by the American military might, which has always
then when you see 6, at least, different crop formations that tie been ut bsaid to be superior, until we get to the Russians. And
this in, not only with the date of August 16th, but directly with there we wonder just how sophisticated their side is. There’s
2012, the end of the Mayan Calendar, it appears that what we’re indications that the Russians are either equal to or ahead of us,
being told is that the events that are happening right now are but I often wonder whether, if you’ve read The Art Of War, you
directly paving the way for the downfall of the Rockefeller/Nazi know, that one of the things you do in war is always pretend to be
faction that has been illicitly running this country and running the less than you are.
show for 50 some years.
D: Right.
That this treasure trove of documents Russia has come into
possession with will be what is necessary to bring them down. K: So that the opposite side will be deceived.
Obviously the most dangerous period of time that remains is
between now and the election because this war in Russia, in D: Right.
Georgia rather, was their big attempt to try to create total chaos,
to bomb Iran and to create Martial Law.
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K: And I think it’s much more likely that that’s what actually is demonstration that we were not spending enough money on our
going on here. That the U.S. is pretending and, this is the hole I own infrastructure. In my opinion ... that was probably what it
also see in Richard Hoagland’s research thus far on the von was intended to do.
Braun thing, is that U.S. is PRETENDING to be less
sophisticated than the Russians but, in fact, that’s not the case. K: OK, what about the notion that Mike McConnell headed a
coup that has already happened? If you will, sometime back
D: Well, I think in terms of ground troops and conventional earlier this year, actually. And that his faction is very much at
military force, they [the US] are at a disadvantage. There’s been a war with the Bush side, the Nazis, and Dan Burisch is part of the,
lot credible testimony that the military has been pretty much is behind the Mike McConnell side.
flattened out, that the helicopters and the tanks are all filled with
sand and most of them can’t even run. And all they’re doing now D: That’s pretty fascinating. I know that Burisch disappeared off
is really just maintaining very small territories within Iraq. They the radar for several months, earlier this year, didn’t he?
can’t even really occupy very much of it.
K: Right. And he’s been busy again, in case you don’t know that.
K: But it’s not a ground war anymore. We’re not even talking, I
mean actually we’ve moved way beyond that. We’re talking
about electromagnetic pulses D: Right. I mean I haven’t spoken with him since, I guess, well,
we spoke together at Cal Tech and that was in March, I think. I
lectured with him about his genetic science.
D: Sure, but the problem with that is that in order to fight such a
war people have to know that you’re fighting it and this is where
we get into the fact that hurricanes are being thrown around. K: It just, you know, because Benjamin talks about the white hats
Earthquakes are being thrown around. You had somebody that within the military that are actually working to change this
basically liquefied the metal on that bridge in wherever it was, timeline, as they call it.
Michigan.
D: Oh, I don’t doubt that for a minute.
K: Yes.
K: This doesn’t go against what you’ve said.
D: That was clearly a torsion field attack.
D: No, it’s actually further positive news in the same direction,
K: Absolutely. which is the people on the planet are tired of war and bullshit. We
want to see people start to get along. We want to see the economy
be good. We want to see less war, less terrorism and we can’t
continue to fight amongst each other. How are we supposed to
become a member of this galactic society if we can’t even clean
our own house up?
You know there’s all these other people out there and they’re not
very enlightened about ... they don’t ... they are enlightened, but
they’re not very keen on the idea of us joining them right now,
because all we want to do is blow people up and think
everybody’s a terrorist. So we need this kind of separation and
conflict mentality to fall apart, and I think the manifestation of
Sarah Palin was a BAD mistake on McCain’s part. Because what
it’s done is, it’s basically him telling the whole country, If you’re
not a fundamentalist Christian, F you, we don’t need your vote.
We don’t even care.
She is as far right and pro, you know, you can’t even have an
abortion if you’re raped by your own father when you’re 14 years
old. I mean it’s ridiculous. Nobody wants to go with that stuff.
You know and what we’re seeing, there was a brilliant article by
D: That was definitely not natural. All the different support Deepak Chopra on Huffington Post where he was basically
pylons just liquefied instantaneously and the whole darn bridge describing the battle between the lower self and the higher self
just dropped ... in seconds. That was ... that’s playing itself out in politics where Palin’s perspective, the
fundamentalist perspective, is all about my country, right or
B: It makes no sense as an attack, but it makes a lot of sense as a wrong.
demonstration, would you agree?
That was the old Viet Nam motto. You know, it doesn’t matter
D: No, I, in that case I’d have to disagree with you and I think whether we screwed up, it doesn’t matter whether we’re wrong,
you’ll hear me when I say this. What it DID, is it further you know. God bless America. That’s what they all started saying
convinced the American people that the Bush Administration was right after 911. They didn’t say God bless humanity or God bless
responsible for the infrastructure collapsing. It was a very blatant the world; they said God bless our country. To try to rally
everyone around the flag and nationalism rather than, Hey, if we
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can figure out why these people are so upset, then maybe they the election in particular -- to basically bring the whole thing
wouldn’t want to blow us up anymore. down.
And in fact, I have an article here from Newsweek. This is June Plus, there was one thing I forgot to say. Let me just say this, it’s
2nd, 2008, and it’s written by a Muslim; his name is Fareed a little side note. Now that they don’t have the Looking Glass,
Zakaria, and the title of the article is: The Only Thing We Have to they can’t see the future anymore. They can’t predict what’s
Fear. And what he actually demonstrates here is that the actual going happen. That’s why they lost to Russia and Georgia,
amount of terrorism that’s happening in the world has because they did not have the technology anymore to see the
substantially decreased. However, our controlled media is future. They didn’t know that Russia was going to blitzkrieg
cooking the books by using the war deaths in Iraq, calling all them like that. They didn’t see that McCain was going pull an
those deaths terrorism deaths. When in fact, it says here the end-run on them and declare somebody his nominee that they’d
number of Islamist attacks has actually declined 65% from its never vetted. Both of these things are SUBSTANTIAL attacks
high point in 2004. Fatalities from such attacks have declined by that would have been prevented if they still had the Looking
90%. Glass operational, but they don’t. And again, I find it very
intriguing what you’re saying that there’s even a coup within the
So the Iraq deaths account for 80% of all the terrorism deaths that American house itself, where McConnell is now leading the
are being counted. So what’s happening is, in fact, fewer and factions trying to stop this stuff also.
fewer people are committing these atrocities. Fewer and fewer
deaths are happening from terrorism. The world is actually K: Ok, David I have to say that there IS a problem with the
getting safer and the only place where it’s still really messed up is overall thing here in regard to the Rothschilds being, as Benjamin
in Iraq, where we’re trying to occupy this country. So, the whole would say, in a sense, the good guys in this scenario.
idea that we’re in this dangerous world and that there’s all these
rabid fundamentalists out there, that are trying to kill us, is D: Oh, I did NOT say that at all and, if you heard that, you
becoming less and less true. misheard me.
Even the people who would be inclined to want to join these K: Ok, well in the sense that they are not the rabid Nazis that the
rabid fundamentalist groups are not doing it. They’re veering faction that came over to the U.S.
away from it, because everybody wants to see the planet move to
peace. Nobody wants to see this crap happen anymore. And these
guys who would have been terrorists are now seeing, hey, if I D: No, I disagree, so we’re probably on the same page, but go
were to successfully attack America all it’s going to do is give ahead.
them an excuse to seize more power, declare Martial Law, try to
throw people into camps -- and all this ridiculous Nazi-fantasy K: Right, right. Well let me say what I have to say here. We have
stuff that I highly doubt will ever happen. And I think that, no this insider named “Hawkeye” and you may have read his
matter what happens in this election, we win. material. What he talks about, he calls them the Roths ...
And by “WE”, I mean people who desire to have freedom and D: OK, right ...
desire to stay alive and be unmolested. If McCain steals the
election by some sort of voting voodoo using the Diebold voting K: ... all the time and, basically, he is the Roths’ boy in the sense
machines, whatever, that STILL will lead to the same outcome, that he is coming to us as a whistleblower but, at the same time,
which is it would be the catalyst to finally mobilize the public to he is doing their bidding and he is saying, he has said – and, you
no longer put up with this ridiculous stuff that’s been going on. know, you can read it on our blog where we put most of his posts
-- he is, in essence, saying that it’s the Rothschilds’ agenda to
Plus you have Fulford saying they’ve narrowed it down to, like, bring down the United States government. To bring down the
50 guys now, that either needs to be captured or killed. And by United States and put it under the Rothschilds once and for all.
knocking out these 50 guys, you basically solve the problem. And
I think what they’re trying to do now is to capture them, rather D: Absolutely, that’s the whole plan.
than kill them. But the point being that they need to stand trial or,
at least, maybe they won’t even have to have that to happen.
K: And that the concentration camps and the very dark side of
what may come down is BECAUSE of the Rothschilds and that
One of Fulford’s deals was just stop what you’re doing, let go of IS their agenda as well.
the control, we’ll let you go back to your palaces and your
mansions, but you just can’t mess with the world anymore. And
you know that kind of amnesty might be what’s required to get D: I would probably agree insofar as the Rockefeller faction is
this thing to work. I don’t know. less likely to actually want to throw people in camps. They do
want the power, but, in general, they try to paint themselves as
the more pleasing of the two societies, less inclined to try to go in
But what I’m saying is, the rest of the world is not going to put this evil direction. They basically try to justify what they’re doing
up with it. Everybody’s waiting for the election. Regardless of as that they’re fighting this menace, which is on the Rothschild
how the election turns out, things are going to be very different side.
after that, because they’re not going to be allowed to do this
anymore. And again, the reason why, in my opinion, the crop
circles are flagging August 16th is that’s when Russia basically Now, in order to more fully explore what you’ve now brought up,
got all these documents that they WILL use -- if McCain steals we have to get into the fact that, essentially, both sides of this
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equation, the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, have gone Nobody’s going to want to go along with it. Even though they’ve
bankrupt. And when you go back to the Svali materials, she, in created so many movies that promote their agenda -- and one of
my opinion, is the most thoroughly documented Illuminati the all time best movies, which is not a very good movie,
whistleblower ever to come forward. She has 2 complete books entertainment-wise, but one of the most blatant movies they ever
worth of material that she published. She also has a whole series made, was Daredevil, with Ben Affleck. That movie is an
of articles that she published and they are very specific and very Illuminati handbook from the 1st frame to the last frame, every
detailed. single shot.
Now, she actually outlines how the Rothschild side makes its’ K: Eyes Wide Shut is another paramount example.
money. And it goes into pharmaceuticals; it goes into illegal gun
trade; it goes into human trafficking; it goes into the drug trade; it D: Oh, absolutely. That was where Kubrick was trying to blow
goes into big media, like Hollywood; big music, like the music the whistle and come out with all sorts of information to sort of
industry, particularly, apparently, country music is one of the show what was going on. But again, it’s probably the case of, you
most heavily-compromised industries within this business. know, one group against another kind of thing. So no, in no way
would I ever want to be seen to be overtly supporting the
There’re several key elements. So essentially, the Rothschild side Rothschild faction as in any way benevolent or the good guys.
is heavily invested in the media and in the pharmaceuticals and in
the illicit weapons trade. Well you just heard me read you a All I’m saying is that it appears that what’s happening right now
statistic that shows that the demand for these illicit weapons is is that, for a short time, they will appear to win. They will appear
plummeted by 74%. Much fewer of these attacks are happening, to pull into the lead and bring down the Rockefeller faction. But
so that trade is falling apart. The drug trade is actually falling they also are very weak. They also have lost strength of their own
apart. More and more people are cleaning up. Business is not membership; their own members want to get out badly. Most of
what it used to be. The pharmaceutical industry is in terrible the people in this group are not there by choice, but they’re there
trouble. So, Hollywood is collapsing. This past weekend was the because they were born into it. And if they tried to escape, they
worst sales they’ve had since, I believe, 2004 for that particular would be killed. And they don’t like it.
weekend. The music industry has completely collapsed because
of illegal downloading.
And I think your friend, Hawkeye, is just one of many examples.
In this case somebody who’s very high ranking, apparently, from
The controlled press with the newspapers is collapsed, because of what you’re telling me, who still is, like, betraying his own so-
things like Craig’s List. The television is collapsed, essentially, called family, because he doesn’t want to be involved in this
because of streaming video like YouTube and what we’ve done thing either. It may appear that I’m coming at this from a sort of
together. So what you’re seeing again, fundamentally, is the Pollyanna, glass-half-full perspective. And I can hear people that
whole economy is shifting away from centralized power making want to say that to me. And that’s ok.
huge profits and towards decentralized power, in which true
economic growth can occur, because it’s much more evenly
balanced. All I’m saying is that part of what informs my opinion is a very
reliable and consistent intuitive track record in which I have been
given extensive information on the Rothschild faction. In fact,
And so that’s why, again, in my opinion, and from what I’ve I’ve studied them intuitively a lot more than the Rockefeller side.
been shown from my own guidance, for what it’s worth, there’s a The Rockefeller side is... a lot of that I’ve learned from actually
2-step process that’s happening here. Step 1 is the collapse of the talking to people who are in it.
Rockefeller side. Step 2 is the collapse of the Rothschild side.
The step one needs to happen first, because these guys have the
most potential to do the greatest damage right now. Step 2, I Whereas the Rothschild side, I got to talk Svali a little bit, but
don’t think is far behind. And I do believe that, like with most of it has come from dedicated research and also intuitive
Fulford’s faction, and just with the dawning public awareness, viewing, which then has been borne out in terms of the changes
their plans will not work. in the economy that we’re seeing. So I do feel that the planet is
moving in a positive direction. I do feel that these groups are
being exposed. And that part of what’s happening at this time in
Because if you actually get into what the Rothschild side wants: humanity is a mass awakening in which people are learning about
first of all, they are devotedly Luciferian, which is essentially this stuff. And from knowledge comes a healing -- because you
Satanic. They want a New World Order where they are seen as can only sustain a conspiracy for so long.
gods and liberators. They want us to ACCEPT them that way.
They want to create a global economic collapse, which is their
script that, by creating this collapse first, that they will then be The Cosa Nostra [ La Cosa Nostra ] was, you know, the Italian
seen as our rescuers. And in so rescuing us they will basically mafia, used to be a secret society. It all fell apart and now
come out of the closet, say here’s who we are, here’s what we’re everybody make movies about it. And I think what you’re going
doing. to see with all these secret factions are the same thing. The
internet has basically brought them down already. I mean
everybody knows what’s going on. It’s amazing that these guys,
These are your leaders, these 13 families which are at the head of as Fulford has said, haven’t already been dragged into the streets.
the thing. And we want to be, you know, we want to be your
benevolent gods on the planet. And it’s like they’re so wrapped
up in their own cult that they don’t realize - everyone who’s not a And so any of these groups that are basically anti life. That are
part of it - it’s a complete fantasy. trying to genocide the planet to reduce population, for whatever
reason they feel they need to. All that stuff is unraveling. And
again, some people might want to call me naïve but when you
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have something happen like, hey go read page a hundred in book will have a whole litany of questions from your discussion forum
III, and you find out that, on that exact day, it’s been 720 cycles of people wanting to know more about this or that or the other.
of 18 days since you were born. It’s one of those consistent And I also have said to you guys that I’d like to be put in touch
exclamation points that I keep getting to show me that I’m on the with Benjamin Fulford, if possible, because I think some of the
right track, that my information is reliable. So, there you have it. things he’s talked about in terms of how the world is changing in
[Laughs] a positive direction dovetail nicely with what I know and I think
he’d be interested to hear what I have to say on that stuff. So I
K: Ok, David, thank you so much. Bill, did you have any other hope that will happen. I also, of course, speak a little Japanese
questions? and used to have a Japanese girlfriend, so there’re some
interesting crossovers there.
B: I’ve got a bunch and I’m sure, Kerry, you have, too; but this is
actually a 2 hour conversation -- my feeling is it’s not actually K: We’ll definitely put you in touch with Benjamin, that’s not a
appropriate to take it in a whole host of different directions, problem at all. The only thing I want to say here, David, is that,
because we easily all could and we could have a barrel of fun unlike what Bill is saying in terms of questions, I think what we
doing it. would have are alternate points of view, things to add and to get
into things a little deeper, you know, from differing points of
view. I think that’s what we would bring to the table. I appreciate
K: Yeah. Absolutely that you’re happy to do that as well.
B: But this feels like a very concise presentation which will help And there’re so many others like us doing the same thing right
people’s understanding -- like as an understanding aid to help now and that’s part of the wonderful puzzle that we’ve got going
interpret a lot of the events which have been happening and on here, that there are people coming forward, truth tellers --
which may happen in the immediate future -- which is what a lot people putting themselves on the line to tell the truth and this is
of our listeners will appreciate this for. And it seems like this what makes your research possible and actually Project Camelot
recording has worked pretty well. It would be fun to do it another possible. And so we’ll do this again soon.
time David, if your ever interested in having another
conversation. We’ve got a lot of questions stored up and you’ve
probably got a lot more stored up to say. What do you think? D: Yeah, and I just again want to say “thank you” for creating a
platform in which people who have something to share like
myself can come forward and be able to give their perspective
D: It’s sort of regrettable in one sense that there IS SO much and be heard. Of course I do that on my own website and I also
exposition required to just establish the basic discussion as I’ve have consistently been gratified by the efforts that you guys have
now done, in terms of all this different research that’s come made to seek out these witnesses and interview them. I think
together from so many different sources. And I agree that you you’ve done a great job and I’m glad to continue to share my
must have hundreds and hundreds of questions coming out of all perspective with you so sometime after September 25th, when I
this. What I can say is, as you guys already know, unfortunately, get back from my studio work on the album we’ll continue the
our paths are not crossing favorably, because I’m leaving on conversation. I look forward to it.
Thursday for 2 weeks. I’ll be back on the 25th of September.
K: Great. Take care, David. Thanks a lot.
I’m working in the studio on a vocal music album called
Wanderer Awakening, but after that time, I would be more than
happy to continue this discussion. And, by then, you probably D: Thank you guys so much. It’s been a great pleasure.
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Project Camelot:
Miriam Delicado “Alien Blue Star” Interview Transcript
Miriam Delicado: Miriam Blue Star
Sedona, Arizona, September 2008
... There are people all over the Earth that have had experiences
similar to mine, and we’re all waiting for the right time to stand
up in unity – In Unity – and come forward and speak to the
world.
... and immediately this rush came over me. I thought: Ahhhh...
this is it. And he said: Have you ever worked for the CIA or the
FBI? And of course, I’m 22 years old. I don’t want to have
anything to do with this. I’m thinking: Why is this happening to
me?
So what makes this fascinating is that as a child growing up, my

father on numerous occasions had told me a story of him being
on the streets of Paris during the war – because of course he’s
Miriam Delicado was contacted at an early age by benevolent, from Europe – and how a man approached him. And what my
tall blond extraterrestrials, apparently singled out specifically for father said was that they asked him to become part of this Psychic
a very special role. She was advised by them to keep a low Army, the Russian Psychic Army.
profile for many years, and finally last year, 2007, she was told
by them that it was time for her to write her book: Alien Blue And he kept saying to me: If they ever come to you, do not go
Star. with them. Do you understand? Don’t ever go with them, because
if you do, they will own you.
With that, Miriam became a minor sensation as thousands of
people sensed that her book seemed to have been written for
each of them personally. And now Miriam is a woman on a ... I was shown an image of being in an underground base that...
mission: driven, articulate, passionate, and powerful, she tells a what took place there was so dark and ugly and horrifying to me
riveting story of her very real and physical contact with a highly that it was difficult for me to deal with.
advanced, Guardian race, and the information she was asked to
pass on. ... What are you doing here? Why can’t you just leave me alone?
Miriam is aware that there are others of her kind. The message is And then I walked on board the craft.
aimed at all people and holds special significance for what
George Green labeled the Ground Crew*: that we are nearly in ... The knowledge is that we’re not alone, that we’re being
what the Hopi - with whom Miriam has established a special watched, that what we’re doing is being looked upon by other
affinity and allegiance - called the End Times; that our planet beings that do have a certain amount of knowledge that we
and our civilization are in great danger; and that (so far, at the ourselves do not have.
time of writing) timelines do not appear to have changed...
although it is always within our gift to create whatever future we ... I have seen the future through them, with their assistance.
collectively wish.
We feel similarly driven, and it's our great privilege to assist her ... I believe that because we are being awakened to begin sharing
in her purpose by presenting this video. This may be one of the this information with people, that there are great changes that are
the most powerful and important interviews we have done. coming and that we need to all understand that. Whether it was
* George's term, not Miriam's. George and going to be a meteor hitting the Earth, or whether it was going to
Miriam have never met. But it is clear to us that be war breaking out, or whether it was going to be famine, or
it's the same group of people that each there was going to be Earth changes that took place – any of
addresses with the same urgency, and with these things -- that man had the ability to change this timeline of
almost the same message what it was that was going to be coming.
... I don’t want to be talking to you. I really don’t. I wish I could Start of interview
put on a mask and not be here. But I am, because in my heart, in
my mind, in my entire being, I know that we are on a path that is Kerry Cassidy: Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot, and
frightening. we’re here with Miriam Delicado. And she’s got a website called
Alienbluestar.com, and she’s got a very interesting story to tell.
She’s a contactee and she has a special relationship with the Hopi
and the Mayan peoples, as we will see as we go forward.
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wasn’t close enough to him to be able to talk to him about it. And
Hi, Miriam, how are you today? that made my earlier years very difficult, just for that reason
alone.
M: Very well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me,
Kerry. Now, my father was an interesting character in my life because
he seemed to possess certain abilities as well. And when we were
K: Absolutely. It’s a real pleasure. I’ve read your book. It’s a kids we were always, you know, a little bit nervous around him,
wonderful book. And why don’t you just start at the beginning, thinking that he would always know what we were doing.
whatever feels comfortable, and tell the people your story? And
let’s go from here. So when -- jumping way forward into my life, into the year 1988,
which is 20 years ago, it was interesting when I did have this
Miriam Delicado: Okay. To start, it’s a very, very big story and encounter on the highway in northern British Columbia with
it’s difficult for me to be able to convey to people the story of my extraterrestrials. And this was a physical encounter that took
life, which is what I tried to do a little bit in my book, Blue Star, place that changed my entire life.
is give people an overview of many of the things that have
happened to me. But when it happened, it was almost immediate that I knew that
my father had had contact, simply because... A number of the
I’ve had a very interesting past twenty years of my life, where things that I was told by these beings, my father used to talk
I’ve had numerous contacts with extraterrestrials from other about when we were kids all the time -- about how the world
places. And often people have asked me where it is that these would eventually change, and how we needed to learn how to
beings are from. And that’s a very big question, so we’ll get into survive, and what it is that we needed to do. This type of thing.
that in a little bit. So I always knew that he’d had contact.
But to give the viewers an overview: You know, my life started K: Didn’t he also work for the, you know, an agency, a secret...
out very strange right from the very beginning, and my life was you know, in Intel in some capacity?
not an ordinary one when I was growing up. I first started to
notice that I was different probably when I was about two years M: Not that I’m aware of.
old. And I actually have memories that could take me all the way
back to being a baby as well as... Most of my remembering came K: Because you talk about him being approached. And he also
back to me when I was about two. warned you about being approached at some point. Isn’t that
right?
So when I was probably about 9 years old my psychic abilities
started to kick in and numerous strange things started to happen M: Yes.
to me. I was having very vivid dreams and all sorts of things
along those lines that I really couldn’t explain.
K: And how do you know that unless, you know, you’ve been
approached?
I used to play this little game when I was a child, about watching
the people in the cars... as I was driving past them in a car. And I
would try to think of what they were saying or thinking in their M: That was a very interesting story that my father used to tell
heads. And when I did that, it was fascinating to me, some of the me as a child. It was a fascinating story that always, you know,
things that I would hear them thinking about. But at the same made me really nervous and I had no clue as to what he was
time I was always scared that they would know that I was, you talking about. So what I need to do is step forward, past 1988.
know, probing into their minds, and I never wanted to get caught
doing that. It was a couple of years later and I was working at a little yogurt
shop. And this is a really fascinating piece to this puzzle of my
So that’s a very, very clear memory for me ever since I was very, life, and even I myself am still, to this day, made a little bit wary
very young. It’s not something that I do now. It’s not something of it.
that I do consciously, ever, at any point, because of course I
would have to ask someone’s permission in order to do that. So So the year was, you know, a couple of years after 1988 and I
right from the very beginning I was a little bit different. was working in this yogurt shop. And I was just having a normal
day, or I was trying to. And this man walked past the window of
And as my life moved forward, these abilities of mine just the shop and he looked directly at me, into my eyes.
became stronger and stronger. And by the time I was a teenager, I
was doing all sorts of things. I was having dreams that were And when he did, he came right in the door, walked right up to
prophetic. And, you know, to use terms that people would me, looked me straight in the eye, and he said: Do you work for
understand, I saw a number of visions that actually came true the CIA or the FBI?
within a very short period of time. And I also had encounters
with, sort of, beings that I wasn’t clear with where they were And I said: No. I don’t. And immediately this rush came over me,
from or what focus they... where they came from. and I thought: Ahhhh... this is it.
And it was really unnerving for me growing up, because even And he said: Have you ever worked for the CIA or the FBI?
though I knew that my father had some sort of abilities as well, I
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And of course, I’m 22 years old. I don’t want to have anything to certainly got, I don’t know, European... What would you say your
do with this. I’m thinking: Why is this happening to me? I said: background is, just in terms of genetics, I guess?
No. I haven’t.
M: My mother is German and, as far as I know, all the way back
And then he proceeded to tell me... He said: Have you ever she’s German. My father is Yugoslavian. And, as far as I know...
thought about working for the Russians? His family history going far, like way, way, way back, I believe
that there’s some interesting blood there. But for me to say
And of course I said: Absolutely not. anything for certain would not be fair to him or to anyone
because I am not sure.
And he then proceeded to tell me how the Russians had been
working with people like myself for a very long time. And that if But as far as Native American blood goes, no, I don’t believe that
I joined them, that I would never be alone again, that I would be there is. But, with his bloodline, if there’s anyone interested in
surrounded with people that were like me. And I said I was not looking it up that would be able to go very far back, meaning,
interested. you know, even thousands of years, I think that it would be
fascinating to see where it led.
And what he was talking about was the Psychic Program. And he
said that the Psychic Program had been going on for a very long K: Okay. So let’s go to your incident in 1988 and tell a little
time, and of course I knew all about this. And I very nicely, more about that, kind of capsulate it, if you will.
politely, with a smile on my face, looked at this man and said that
+I was not interested. M: In 1988 I was living a very normal, average life as a young
adult. I’d just moved from a small town into the big city in
And he kept pushing and saying: Do you know how strong you Vancouver, British Columbia. And my friends and I had decided
are? to take a road trip to my home town. And on the way up there,
And I smiled at him. I said: Yes, I do know how strong I am. everything was normal. We took the drive and everything was
fine. But on the return journey everything, everything changed.
And he said: But can you control your abilities?
There were four of us, four adults and a young child in the car.
And the trip... we were driving for hours. I was sleeping in the
And I said: Actually, I can. back seat of the car. And then it started to get dark out. The
people that were driving wanted a break, so they went into the
And then he said that they would still be very much interested in back seat, and I went up into the front, into the passenger side
working with me. And I told them that there was no way. I said: with my friend. And right away these big balls of light... they
What I would like you to do is go back to the people that sent you looked like truck lights, actually; that’s what we thought that they
here, thank them very much for their interest and tell then that were for the longest time... came streaming up behind us rather
there’s no point in ever coming back because I will never be quickly in the car. And as that happened, we were wondering
interested. why they were traveling so fast.
So what makes this fascinating is that as a child growing up, my Now, these particular lights followed us for hours and hours in
father on numerous occasions had told me a story of him being the darkness. And every time we came up to a car or any kind of
on the streets of Paris during the war – because of course he’s house or buildings at all, the lights would fall back and disappear.
from Europe – and how a man approached him. And what my
father said was that they asked him to become part of this Psychic So after hours of this going on, eventually we went through a
Army, the Russian Psychic Army. town where we thought for sure that we had lost the lights. And
as soon as we got to the other side of this town, into the forested
And he kept saying to me: If they ever come to you, do not go area, the absolute moment we said: Okay, we’re clear. There’s no
with them. Do you understand? Don’t ever go with them, because way they can catch up with us... and literally in the blink of an
if you do, they will own you. You can’t run and you can’t hide eye, there they were, these balls of light that were probably about
because they will find you with their minds. this big. [holds hands about 12 inches apart]
And so of course I was always very frightened by this. And it And they came up behind us. And then – poof -- and at this point,
didn’t make any sense to me growing up. But in that moment, as after hours they had been appearing and disappearing, appearing
soon as the man walked into the store and said: Do you work for and disappearing, and in the blink of an eye. So my friend got
the CIA or the FBI? I knew exactly who he was, what he was very, very nervous, as I did. Neither one of us were comfortable
there to ask me, and I was very adamant that I was not interested. with what was happening at all, and the people in the back seat
And I’m not interested for anyone to do something along those were still sleeping.
lines.
So all of a sudden I screamed at her and I said: Pull over the car
K: Okay. Yeah. I remember that story from your book and I right now! It’s not you they want. It’s me! And I went to grab the
think it’s a real bell-ringer. I think your father had... what? steering wheel to pull her over, when all of a sudden she just sort
Maybe Native American blood somewhere in there? He’s of flopped, you know, like a Raggedy Ann doll, flopped her head
over and started pulling over and stopped at the side of the road.
130
And by that time the car filled with light from every direction. There were, ah... There were things that have stayed with me so
And these balls of light were sitting behind the car. So at that clearly that even as I’m looking at you I can still see the images
point -- I was the only one conscious at that time -- when I turned in my mind every time I hear about ... you know...
from the back of the car to the front, I saw a craft on the road.
K: Can you give us an idea what was conveyed to you at that
Now, I couldn’t make out any detail because it looked almost time? And does that have something to do with what you’re
misty and very, very bright. And these beings that were about doing here now, visiting Sedona and Hopiland, the Four Corners
four feet tall walked... were walking towards me. They were very area?
androgynous, almost childlike in their nature. And they had big
round black eyes. They didn’t have any oval eyes at all. These M: It has everything to do with it. Twenty years ago I was given
were round black eyes. messages. And these messages and information that I was given
were so crystal clear to me that two days after I walked off the
And they were directing me to get out of the car, which I did. craft I had a clear understanding of all of my psychic abilities,
And I was very scared. I wasn’t terrified though, and that and where they came from, and how I had them, and why I had
distinction needs to be made. I was not terrified. I was scared. them.
So I got out of the car. They led me down the highway a little bit, I had a great understanding of my father that I’d never had before
and at this point I wasn’t even thinking about my friends, I was in my life. I knew that he’d had contact. I had a clear
just wondering where they were taking me. understanding that there were many other people in the world that
were like myself and that all of these things were related.
And on this embankment on the left... they led me up the
embankment where I saw, when I looked up, a larger craft that And after two days I started writing quite a bit of this down. I did
had two beings standing in this doorway. And they had blond hair not by any means write it all down, but there were key points that
-- and I mean blond as in snow white hair -- and the most brilliant I did put on paper. Now at the time, even with some of them, I
blue, Mediterranean water blue, eyes that you’ve ever seen, and did not understand the full extent of what it was in this
quite incredible. And the beings, the short ones, took me to the information, but it was about the Four Corners area as being one
craft, and when I got to the doorway I walked onboard the craft. of the “safe lands” in what they termed the End Times -- if these
End Times came in the form that they were giving warnings
But what was interesting was that just prior to all of this about.
happening I’d had a dream in the back seat of the car. And in this
dream that I had, this man and woman told me, they said: We are So they gave me warnings about possible futures in which the
coming for you soon. Do not be afraid. We are your friends. We planet could potentially have destruction, and the people could
are your family. Do not be afraid. potentially have a very difficult time.
And then, when I saw these two tall beings, the moment that I Now, these warnings were just possibilities, but they were things
laid eyes on them, I said in my mind: What are you doing here? that they had made very clear to me, crystal clear to me, that
Why can’t you just leave me alone? And then I walked onboard humanity had a choice in whether or not we were going to end up
the craft. on this destructive path or a positive path.
K: And did you have any memories of what happened on the So, many of these things were told to me twenty years ago. But,
craft at that point? getting into it a little bit deeper, they also told me a great deal
about the Four Corners area in particular.
M: From the moment I walked off that craft, I had very clear
memories. And I have had those clear memories for twenty years. So of course I did not, at that time as I was still trying to process
all of this information, truly understand what it was that they
K: Clear memories of what happened on the craft? Or just clear were saying, how this particular area was a “safe land,” and how
memories up to the point you’ve told us? at this time there were certain people that would gather together
in this area.
M: Both. Once I was onboard the craft, I remember a great deal
of what happened to me. I do not by any means remember the full The Four Corners area is a really important area to these beings
three hours. I don’t. And I don’t know if I ever will or not, and it is because it is one of the center points on the Earth where
because up to this point... I mean, I have not had hypnosis done gatherings will take place for many people. And it does not
to recover memories. So that’s a very important point for me to necessarily mean that everyone needs to pack up, leave, and go to
make to anyone watching, is that these memories have come the Four Corners area because it’s a “safe land.”
from conscious memories.
What it means is that, even if an individual travels through the
So, in other words, I walked onto the craft, I had this encounter. area, they are going to be able to have information coming to
It took me some time, but I did come to realize that it was a total them within their own selves in order to assist them and help
of three hours. It was very clear math that I did to work this out. them to know where it is they need to be on the planet.
So there was three hours of missing time. And I remember quite a
bit of the information that they gave me at that time.
131
If there is a great cataclysm that does take place, there are certain they were the helpers of this Earth to insure that... They were
areas on the Earth that will be in safe zones. But that doesn’t overseers, so that they would be here to watch over the Earth, to
mean that you’re going to be able to go there and be taken care help man become more than what they currently are.
of. What it means is that these areas will not have that great
destruction, but it still will be in chaos. So that needs to be So, in the beginning life was created but nothing came of it. So
clarified to everyone and that there are these particular safe spots they... It’s like saying that they threw the seeds of life across the
and safe lands all over the Earth. land just to see what would come up. And the idea was that a
vessel would be made so that the sparks of life -- us -- could then
Now, the indigenous people all over the Earth have known these enter and experience life in this world. But nothing ever came of
things for thousands of years, and they are the ones that have all it.
of this knowledge as to where all of these particular areas are.
And if we take a look at their myth stories, we are going to be In the Second World, they gave this life more form, but still
able to find that information. thought that it would evolve into something more. And again
nothing of any real value was produced.
And, at the same time, this has been guarded by them for
thousands of years so that, if we needed the information, it would In the Third World that they created... And, again, these are the
be made public for everyone. So it’s really important. The Hopi, things that were shown and told to me. And in the Third World,
as well as others on the planet, play a part in this. they said that the form -- meaning our bodies -- were created, and
then our souls would come into the bodies. And when they did,
Now, there needs to be some very clear understanding here about we had all this knowledge; we had all this ability to communicate
what I’m going to say, because I do have friends that are in Hopi. with one another; we had telepathy; we had an understanding far
And I have talked to people there, but by no means at all am I a beyond what we currently do right now.
spokesperson for them or do I speak on their behalf whatsoever.
But it was like giving children matches to play with without
So what I’m going to do is, I’m going to share my experience allowing them to evolve, more along the lines of emotionally, and
with you. I’m not going to talk about Hopi. I’m going to share to be able to handle all of this knowledge. So they kind of went
my experiences that revolve around them. crazy. They played around too much. They were becoming
destructive. And the things that they did were very dark and evil
K: Maybe you can tell us where the link up came? You were told at that point.
by these beings in 1988, somehow. I assume this is when you
were also told to come to Hopi at some point. There was also So again the world was sort of cleaned out, cleaned off, and again
some kind of a, I don’t know if it was a stone or a necklace, or these new vessels were created -- meaning the vessels that we
something that you had, and you buried in your back yard? Do have now. So there’s been a slow evolution of “mankind” over
you want to share that story before we kind of move into the time.
bigger picture?
As this took place, one of the things that happened was... In this
M: Yes. The relationship between these beings and the Hopi, for Third World I was shown an image of these people. And it was
example... Again, this is only from my experiences, and it’s sort of like looking from above. And I looked down into this
fascinating. Even to me it’s fascinating. room and I saw these people. And these people, I was told, were
living the life that was intended, which was the spiritual life.
When I was onboard the craft, I was sitting in what I call a “light
chair,” and it was... you could look at it just like this. [points to And so, because they had this great knowledge, and because they
the chair she’s sitting on.] Except, instead of it being a chair, it had a true understanding of why they were here and the bodies
was made from pure light, so it almost glowed. And I sat in this that they had seemed to be doing very well, they were spared and
chair, and I looked across the room, and I had a being on either taken from the Third World and brought into this, the Fourth
side of me. And a screen popped up. And the screen was actually World.
quite large. It was probably about this... as large as the chair, and
you know. Two or three feet high. And as I looked at the screen, Now, one of the things that happened in this vision is I was told
there was information that came across it. And images. that one day I would find these people and I would know what to
do.
These images would be accompanied by information that was
given to me by these beings, either through telepathy or -- So when I went into the Four Corners area for the very first time
meaning they would directly speak to me -- or it felt like there in 2003, I knew I had to go through Hopi but I really didn’t know
was just a constant flow of information being sort of placed why. The only thing I knew was that there was a reason for this,
within my mind. and it was a very big reason, and it was very, very important.
Now, one of the things that they shared with me was the creation So when I did go through Hopi, I had what I would call a
of man. And this is very much related to the Hopi and all of the “psychic flash,” where I saw some of these Hopi people and they
indigenous people and ourselves. changed right in front of my eyes. And it was in this flash that I
had all of the visions that were given to me onboard the craft, as
So, to make this story really short, they explained that they had a well as what they wanted me to do, as well as what was
hand in creating mankind, but by no means were they God. That
132
happening on the Earth, where we came from, where we’re So I again started this amazing story, about how I had these
going. visions and dreams about certain things and how I found them to
be completely related to Hopi prophecies. And that they weren’t
It was just mind blowing. It was so much. But most important, I just related. They were almost – almost -- identical in their
realized that these were the people that they wanted me to find. I nature. And the story of their creation story, again, exactly the
realized that the Hopi were these individuals that were taken – same as what these tall blond entities and beings had told me.
“individuals” meaning people -- that were taken from the Third
World into the Fourth World, and that they had a great purpose at So I was telling him all of this. And then finally he looked at me
this time. and he said: Wait a minute. Are you talking about... ? He kind of
leaned across the table and said: Are you talking about aliens?
S
And I thought: Ahhhh... . It was such a relief. It was such a relief
o it was no surprise to me that I came across them at all. And in that moment because I had to wait for him to bring it up. And I
their role on the planet is very important for the future of said: Yes. And he said: Okay. Okay, now talk to me. Now tell me
everyone. this story.
It is my hope, and I hope with my heart, that all of us -- meaning So I continued talking to him, and he appeared to understand and
the Hopi, the indigenous from all around the world, and everyone know what it was that I was talking to him about. And at that
else that has an understanding and a caring and a passion and a point, you know, after I had been speaking to him for hours, he
desire to help this planet -- will truly come together and be able looked at me and he said: Why are you here?
to save us from this destructive path that I was shown.
And I said: I’m here to share with you.
K: You came to Hopi, though, and it was an interesting sort of
series of events that put you there. And then also... and I don’t And he said: No. Why are you here? I don’t understand. And he
know, this may encompass beyond 2003... but your experience of was just kind of shaky about it.
meeting... And I don’t know his name. He’s an Hopi elder, I
believe. And you ended up staying at his house. And I said: Well I’m only here to share this story with you.
Do you want to tell a little of that story? Because its kind of... It’s And he said: You know, I have had people come from all over the
really compelling, in the sense that here you are, a complete world. He has himself, as well as Hopis. They have people come
stranger, a white woman, walking into this tribal setting, and in from all over the world.
some strange way they seem to have accepted you and welcomed
you in.
And he said: They come with similar stories, but not like this. He
said: All of them come here and they ask me questions. And you
M: In 2004 I took a trip again by myself. And during this haven’t asked me a single question. Why?
particular journey, I knew before I even went there what was
going to happen. And I was very nervous.
And I said: What could I possibly ask you that I don’t already
have the answer to?
On the first trip I bought a ring at a little store in Hopi. And I
went back there in 2004 and talked to the woman that sold me the
ring. And I was trying to tell her some of these things that had So that made him even more nervous. And it’s not because I
happened to me. And the way that I talked about it was... I kept believe that I have all of the answers. It is because I know that for
telling her I had these visions, or I had these dreams, and how I myself I don’t need a Hopi to tell me something. I know what I
came to all this information. And she was really taken aback by need to know and I’m content with that.
the things that I was saying.
Now, what happened after being with him for some time is even
And she said to me: I think you should speak to one of our elders. more fascinating, because I left at one point. He asked me to
So she hummed and hawed about who she should send me to. leave because someone came to his home. And I walked out of
And then she told me: Go to this mesa. This is where this person his house. And I walked along the mesa, at which time I started
is. This is their name. walking towards the Hopi woman’s home who sold me the ring.
She told me where she lived. Her daughter was outside. So I
started talking and sitting with her daughter.
And I was thinking: Oh wow. This is it. I knew this was going to
happen.
And very quickly after that she started speaking Hopi to one of
her friends. And I think it was that moment that I said to myself:
So I go up onto the mesa and I find this man. And he was not That’s it. There is absolutely not an ounce of questioning left
very impressed that I was at his door, initially. And he was kind anymore. Because in that moment she said a word in Hopi that I
of humming and hawing, like: What are you doing here? I can’t recognized as being one of the words that these tall blond aliens
help you. spoke to me. And I asked the little girl. I said: What does that
mean? And she said: It’s thank you; saying thank you to a woman
And I said: No, I’m only here to share this with you. That’s it. in Hopi. And I said: Wow. That’s amazing.
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So the two of us were walking around for a little while, and I this belonged to. I just didn’t expect them to be Hopis. I always
went in to get a pop from this little place, something to drink. thought that I’d find them in the jungles of South America or
And when I was in this area, I all of a sudden heard in my head: something.
What are you doing here? Very clearly, as if someone was
standing right beside me. [Kerry laughs]
And when I looked to my right at this long counter, there So, this being that I saw in the mesa... What happened after that
standing at the counter was one of these beings: Blond hair, blue trip in 2004 when I returned home was, I went for dinner with a
eyes. They’re probably about, I don’t know, 6’ 4”, built as if they friend of mine, and I was telling him all about my journey and
were, you know, had been working out for their entire lives -- just that type of thing. We took a drive in his car. Him and his wife
really, really strong looking. were in the front seat. And in the back seat I was sitting behind
the driver, and his nine-year-daughter was to the right of me.
And he stared at me and said: What are you doing here?
And I again said: Well, I’m coming home. What are you doing So, as we’re driving down a very busy street in Vancouver, very
here? You know... Why are you asking me? type of thing. busy street, one of the major streets, a Jeep rolls up beside the
car. And as it does, I looked, and there sitting in the car was this
And there was no conversation with him, but I knew who he was, blond being, blond-haired, blue-eyed being, that was sitting and
completely. And I wanted to walk up to him and say: Oh, what completely... head cocked to the one side and looking at me
are you doing here? Let’s sit down and talk. But again I just kept directly, without looking at the road at all. Didn’t look at the road
walking with this little girl, thinking: No. It’s not the right time. at all. Just sat there and... with his head... just stared at me. And I
thought: No way. That’s all I could think.
I was walking out of this area and I said to the little girl: Did you
see that man in there? But here’s the great thing. The little girl said: Oh my god. Look at
that man. He looks so weird. He doesn’t even look human.
[She said]: Yeah. [laughs]
I said: Did you recognize him? K: [laughs]
She said: No, I’ve never seen him before. M: Everyone in the car just sat back and thought... you know,
was quickly trying to get a glimpse of this man. And so, then
again, there I was having confirmation by another individual of
And I said: Okay. So I thought: Wow. That is so strange. all of these things.
There’s something about that that I’d like to share that’s not in And during a two-week period after I returned from that trip, I
the book, which is fascinating, that has to do with this. had three encounters like that: one in a store, one on the public
transit bus, and then the one in the car with my friends. Very
But to continue, I went back to this elder’s home. And when I strange. Very, very strange. Even to me it’s fascinating.
did, I said to him: This is what happened when I was with the
little girl. I heard this word being said as one of these words that K: Okay. Maybe we could just kind of move ahead now to a
these beings spoke to me in. little more current and what you’ve been hearing, and maybe
share a little bit about the fact that you’ve... how you’ve began to
So there I was, sitting at this elder’s table, and out of my back come forward. And especially how you got to write your book.
pocket I pulled out a piece of paper and I opened it up. And I
said: This is the language that they spoke to me in. And I pushed Because I have to say that I came across you via... I think I heard
the piece of paper over to him. So he tried to... you on a radio show briefly, and then I saw your site. I saw your
face, and I knew instantly that we should talk. And it was a
I said: They’re all phonetically written because I didn’t know how drawing of your face; it wasn’t actually you. But I just had a
to write this. connection, and I just knew. But the book... then I got the book
and that just confirmed what I’d thought. So can you tell me
And he said: Well, why don’t you just tell me what the words are? about the writing of the book?
So I read them out. And as I did, at least 6 of the words on the M: Big question. Very important question. And especially
piece of paper were Hopi. One for sure, I know for sure, is relevant for today.
Navajo. And he told me that other words that were on this piece
of paper that he thought were Navajo words. The whole purpose behind writing this book was... First of all, it
was a request made by them. So in 1988 when I was onboard that
So these beings... In 1988, when I’d never had any exposure to craft, I was actually asked by them to do this. They asked me to
Hopis or Navajos in any way, shape, or form, as a 22-year-old come forward and share this story, to tell people who they were
young girl living a very normal life, these beings spoke to me in a and where they were from, so that if and when the time came
language that I knew for twenty years at this point today. I knew that... if they had to make their presence known on a global
all that time that one day I would find the people whose language scale... that we would not be afraid.
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So this was very important to them. This was the whole purpose Now, they’ve given me information. And that, again, starts to
for them sharing the knowledge that they did with me and step into what I believe has to do with the indigenous people of
helping me to try to understand the Earth, to understand the Earth because of what these beings told me. And they said
ourselves, and to understand them. that in the “End Times” that there would be many changes that
would take place. So... They’re on many different levels. They’re
The reason that it was written at this time was... I have to give not just one. And it’s not simple to describe these things.
you a bit of a timeline. In 1988 I had what I call my awakening
encounter, and that is the point where everything sort of stems I was told that one of them would be on a spiritual level, changes
from. I always revert back to 1988 when I’m describing to people would begin to take place. On a physical level changes would
what has happened. begin. And also on an Earth basis, for the Earth itself, that
changes would happen.
So I’m told in 1988 all of these things and asked to share them.
So I started doing some of these things that they’d asked of me. So all of these things were sort of being correlated and being
And then all of a sudden they said: No, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, written by humanity itself in the path that we are to take. For
stop. Quiet, quiet, quiet. No more talking. example, that there were the possibility that war would break out,
for example. This is something that really disturbs me. It scares
And I knew that eventually one day I would be told when the me. It upsets me. And even as I say this I could cry because...
right time was to come forward and start sharing this . And I might just cry. [voice breaks, choked up]
So, at the very beginning of 2003, I was sort of woke up one K: It’s okay. Go ahead.
morning. They said: Okay, it’s time. It’s time. It’s time to go to
the Four Corners area -- whatever that meant, I was not sure. But M: Because if anyone were to have lived the life that I have for
it was time for me to... what I would say, for lack of a better term, the past twenty years, to have had the experience after experience
to start my work. So that happened in 2003. And after that, of after experience, confirmation after confirmation after
course, encounter with the Hopi elder, and as well as a number of confirmation, of all of these things, they too would not hesitate in
other things that happened prior to that in the Four Corners area anything, to help in whatever way they could to stop this process.
that were related to 1988, I said: Okay. I must start writing. So
the process began. Because we have a responsibility... as human beings. I was told
that we have a responsibility to do what we can to save this Earth.
We’re not the saviors of the Earth. We’re supposed to be the
caretakers of the Earth. We’re here to be the stewards of this
land. That is part of why we are here, to be able to experience one
another and the Earth itself.
But the way that we are living our lives, based in things like
greed as being the primary focus for most people, we’ve
forgotten about why it is that we are supposed to be here to begin
with. And that is the beauty of each other and of this land.
And one of the things that I always ask people, every single
person, and I say to them: You really need to ask yourself this
question. Are you happy? It’s a very simple question. The answer
Then in 2007, near the beginning of the year, I had quite a few is what gets very complicated.
messages given to me in many different forms. They came to me
in dreams. They came to me, you know, in my head saying: You Because, as it was explained to me by these beings, humanity
need to finish the book, you need to finish the book, you need to was on a path, a collision course, and if we didn’t change it, this
finish the book. was going to be the end result: Destruction.
And they told me that it was very important that I had it done by In whatever form... whether it was going to be a meteor hitting
November. And I really didn’t know why. But they said the Earth, or whether it was going to be war breaking out, or
November, 2007, I had to have the book done by, because there whether it was going to be famine, or there was going to be Earth
was a timeline of what was going to be taking place on the planet. changes that took place -- any of these things -- that man had the
ability to change this timeline of what is was that was going to be
So I pushed and pushed and pushed myself in many ways to be coming.
able to have this task completed, which, just under the wire, I
have done. So the book was done. I finished writing it. And then I Now people have said to me: Well, you’re trying to create a
was told to begin sharing this story with whomever would listen. prophecy, or you’re talking about prophecy.
Now, I was told in 1988 that I was to find the others like myself, But here’s the thing. For anyone out there that understands even
and that we were to come together and that these gatherings remotely the smallest amount of this, this is easy to understand,
would begin. what it is that’s happened here. We’ve been given a gift, a very
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special gift. And that is the gift of seeing beyond where we the United States. And what the United States did, and what
currently are. happened here, would affect the entire world forever.
Now, if we stay on the same path, they’ve said this is going to be So, considering that the American economy is doing as it is, and
the price of oil that does have to do with the United States in part,
the end result. But the gift is, if we can change the course that we there are... we are at the beginning of a flow that is not going to
have been on, then all of these things will be averted, and they be easily rectified, if at all.
will not happen.
So what people need to understand is that these things were told
So this is the reason for the book. This is the reason that I’ve to me years and years and years ago. And so what I’m saying is
come forward. Because I don’t want to be talking to you. I really that 2008, there’s going to be economic repercussions across the
don’t. I wish I could put on a mask and not be here. But I am, Earth that are never going to be fully recovered. So that’s the first
because in my heart, in my mind, in my entire being, I know that change.
we are on a path that is frightening.
I’ve also seen that there are the possibilities of changes taking
And some people get scared. I’m not scared. These tears are not place on a global scale of things that are more geared towards the
fear. These tears are very much sadness, because I have seen the political structure of the Earth, in the next... probably 4 to 6
future through them, with their assistance. So I hope that we will months... that there were going to be some changes that were
be able to come together as humanity to change that. And I going to be taking place around this time. So that finishes off
believe... I believe that we still can. 2008. It’s like a precursor to what’s to come.
I don’t think that it’s possible at this point in time to stop Now, the other year that I’m concerned with, and I’ve had great
everything. I think that we have come to a time where it has concern over since 1988, is not 2012 as people have often asked
become apparent, and is becoming more apparent every day, that me. 2012, to myself, in the knowledge that I’ve been given by
we are on a collision course in many different areas. these beings, is not a specific date for me to be even thinking
about.
Our food supplies have in the course of the last year become
scarce in certain areas in the world. Things like Rice, Mad Cow However, the year 2010 is. So what is coming in 2010? I’m often
Disease, the Avian Flu. The list goes on. These things are all asked this. And all I know is that there is the potential of great
becoming apparent to everyone in the world. Fuel -- the cost of
fuel, gas prices affecting everyone in the world. destruction all over the Earth. Can I say that that’s war? No. I
will not say that. Can I say that it is a meteor coming? I cannot
But all of these things can be changed very easily. And that is say that. What I am saying is that humanity has a role to play in
how we are going to change the Earth -- with helping one how this turns out in 2010.
another.
So let’s say that 2010 rolls around and nothing happens. You
K: Okay. So you have a mission and you’re on your mission and know what? I am not going to sit here and say: Oh I was wrong. I
here we are. This is October. Actually not October. This is am going to be clapping in glee that we have averted what it is
September of 2008. Right? And it’s a beautiful world outside my that I have seen for all this time.
door today. However, there are a lot of things going on right now
as we speak. The American economy is going in the tank. There So it is never too late. The eleventh hour is going to be the
is possible war with Iran right, you know, behind our backs could eleventh hour until the moment that it happens. So we always
be happening, could be gearing up. And there are other things as have time. We always have the ability to change something.
well. So how is this impacting your sense of what you’re doing,
what your, sort of, your set mission, and what the next milestones And I believe that... From all of this knowledge that I’ve learned,
are, if you will, that you are planning to get to? and all of these things that have been shown to me, I know that
we have the ability to work together to make changes on the
M: Considering that this is 2008, that’s a very interesting Earth that are going to be lasting, that will bring back the
question for me, because it has been... I don’t even know how happiness and joy that we came here to be able to experience,
many years, and I don’t even know if it relates back to 1988... but that we’ll put a structure in place for our families and our
at some point in this course of my life in the last twenty years, communities that is geared towards caring for one another and for
2008 has been a year that has stuck with me. the Earth itself.
Because I have known for years that between August of 2008 and And this particular time that we’re in right now, it is critical that
November 2008 that there would be major changes on the Earth. we begin to understand that we need to take responsibility on an
And what I mean is... I’m not talking about changes of the Earth individual basis, that we as individuals do have the power to
itself, but of the people. And maybe in some form it would have change the Earth in a way that is going to be beneficial to our
something to do with the United States. children, in a way that is going to be beneficial to the people that
are coming after us.
Now, I made this very public statement in January of this year. I
said that these things were coming and that they would involve
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And people ask me: Why is it and what is it that makes this time experiences similar to mine. And we are all waiting for the right
special? And it is because we are being given the choice, the time to stand up in unity -- in Unity -- and come forward and
choice of how our path is going to lead us and take us, and where speak to the world. Because when the world realizes that we are
the end is going to be. here, and that we are strong, and that we have been working in
our own individual ways to better the Earth, and to better our
If we decide that we are going to continue to be greed-filled... societies, I believe that they will not have a choice but to look
Look into the future! It doesn’t take much. You can see that around and say: Okay, what do we need to do?
there’s no real way out of this situation that we’re in unless we
make some changes. So how do we do that? How do we make Because we aren’t crazy people. People like myself are living
changes? very normal lives. And as I state in the book, we could be your
best friend or your neighbor. We could be the principal at the
And I tell people -- very important. People that come here to school. We could be your governor, or anything in life. You
Project Camelot. It’s a prime example. It’s called education. The could even be married to somebody like me and you may not
most important thing that an individual can do is educate know. But when the time comes, all of us will stand up together,
themselves. and come out of these closets that we’ve been living in, to make
our presence known on a global scale.
And I am not talking just about political issues, or issues that
have to do with extraterrestrials, but I’m talking about educate So when people talk about this time, where they’re constantly
yourself as to who you are as a person. Educate yourself as to asking me: Are these beings going to show themselves to us? Are
how to live, how to build a home, how to grow food. Put your they going to come out on a global scale? I tell them that it is my
hands in the Earth again so that you remember who you are, so understanding that these tall blond beings are here as the
that you remember where your food came from. That’s Caretakers of this Earth and that they will not show themselves
education. on a global scale en mass unless it is absolutely necessary to do
so – meaning, if there was some great cataclysm that was coming
where the entire world would be wiped out, that they would then
It’s talking about educating yourself in all the areas that you need step in. But it is only then that they would do so.
-- spiritually, emotionally, physically. Look at how you’re living
the choices that you’re making. No one, including myself, are
perfect. No one’s perfect. But what we can do is, when we are Now, we -- people like myself -- are the ones that could come out
able to, we can make the right choices so that slowly we can on a global basis and a global scale. And this is one of the
make a world that is on the right path. questions I’ve been asked so many times, and this is a really
important point for people to understand: That when they say
they’re going to come out, well yeah, we’re going to come out.
K: Okay. So you come here, though, to Hopiland and Sedona We’re going to come out of your homes, and out of your schools,
and the Four Corners. And the mission is to gather the people, as and out of your political arenas, and out of your preschools as
I understand it. your teachers. That’s where we’re going to come out first.
M: Yes. K: And doesn’t it also... There’s a really key ingredient which

involves the children and that the gatherings are actually going to
K: And this is not just the Native American people. And can you send sort of a wave across the planet that’s going to impact and
talk about that a little? stimulate all of the Indigo Children and all of the Crystal
Children -- whatever you want to call them -- and they will
M: I am going to share with you a little bit of what was told to suddenly know that the time is now because of this gathering, if I
me twenty years ago. When I was onboard the craft, what I was understand it.
told was to find the others like myself, to gather them together
and bring them back to the safe lands; that a time would come M: You do understand it very well. And it is important to note
when all of these people -- meaning the people that I saw living that, also when these gatherings take place, and they have been...
from the... taken from the Third World into the Fourth World, You know, one can say that these gatherings have been taking
and as well as the others “like myself” -- that we would all come place all over the Earth already in small forms.
back together. And when this happened, there would be great
changes that would take place on the Earth, for the better. What the great gathering is, is certain individuals, certain groups,
coming together of prominence and of – “prominence” meaning
So it is becoming clearer and clearer to me by the day now... See, nothing more than having certain knowledge. So people all over
it used to take years for things to come. And that’s no longer the the Earth with certain knowledge will come together, and when
case. And that’s a very key point, because people have noticed they stand together, they will say certain things. And what it’s
that the world, and the daily lives that they have, everything’s going to do is, it’s going to send a message out to individuals,
changing -- the way that we think, the way that we act. Some children, to young adults, to you know, those people that are 70
people just seem to be floating through life while other people are years old.
just sort of going crazy, and they can’t seem to hold their own
selves and their own space. But it will send a message to everyone that’s waiting, waiting.
We all feel it. Everyone’s felt it for a very long time. What are we
What’s happening now is that this gathering that I was told about waiting for? It’s like sitting in a chair getting all jittery. What are
20 years ago is beginning to form. And the people like myself we waiting for? We’re waiting for something.
are... There are people all over the Earth that have had
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One of the things that they’re waiting for is for this event to take B: So that’s billions of years ago.
place. That’s what I believe because that’s what I was told 20
years ago, that it would be a wave that would sort of go out to M: Yes. Yes. In the Second World I was shown, in the Second
these individuals and almost send a message to them and say: World, that this very grotesque life form was produced and that
Okay. You’re not alone. Let’s wake up together and let’s start they waited for it to evolve to see if it would be the right host for
standing up and be known en mass to the Earth. Because then this spark of life -- whatever you would like to call it; I call it the
there will be responsibility taken by individuals. spark of life -- to be able to facilitate a spiritual life and a greater
understanding of the universe.
But it will also mean that those people that are living in their
homes in fear of coming out, that as we come out together, we But this... in the Second World, the life that was formed was
will no longer be ridiculed by people but we will be... we will very, very... ”simple” is the word that came to me. Very simple
have individuals saying: Okay. Teach me a little bit more about and basic and just really did not evolve. So, for myself, when I
this path that you are on. look at that... Of course, when I came back from this experience,
and it took me a while to even be able to put all of this, associate
Because there’s more than one side to this phenomenon. And I’m it to the world, I clearly was able to see that this was the Dinosaur
not here to talk to people or educate them about the darker side. Age.
What I’m saying is that this knowledge, this path, this
understanding that I have from these tall blonds, is truly about Then in the Third World, I was shown from above the Earth and
enlightening ourselves, to educating ourselves, to helping us to then again into this room where these people were that were
understand who we are and where we’re from. And there is no taken from the Third World and brought into this World. And
hidden agenda. when I was shown from above, what I saw was this city that was
very, very much filled with light. So there were cities but they
We may not have all of the answers. I may not have all of the weren’t all over the Earth. They were just sort of in pockets here
answers. But if you put me in a room with a number of other and there.
people, we do have the whole picture. So to say that there’s other
things going on is not a fair assessment, in my view. And so when I myself, as Miriam, look back through history at
this, I see it as being some of those “Lost Worlds” that have been
So it’s important for all of us to come together to the Earth en looked for, and some of them, part of them, found over the course
mass and that will be happening, I hope very soon. of our lifetimes, or over the last hundred years.
K: [to Bill Ryan] Okay. Now we have time for you to ask your So, these three Worlds that were talked about prior to this one... it
question and then we can also double back and cover some makes very clear sense to me, in my limited knowledge of
ground that we might have missed along the way. Okay? anthropology and paleontology and all of the rest of it. It just
looks clear to me that these were the different Worlds.
Bill Ryan: I have a question which many people who are
watching this would probably want me to ask. And that is that, B: Okay. My next question then that comes from that is that it
when you talk about the Four Worlds that were mentioned both sounds from what you’re saying that you are talking time scale of
by your extraterrestrials contacts and that are present in the Hopi the responsibility of the Caretakers. I think you call them that
legend in the same form, can you match that against the word. Other contactees of course have called them different
traditional scientific thinking in terms of the fossil record, the terms. Some people call them “The Watchers.” Jim Sparks called
evolution of man? Can you put any kind of a date on this? What them “The Keepers.” These are all approximations, presumably
does this actually mean to a paleontologist or an anthropologist? transposed into our language, for some kind of guardian race.
Are you able to answer that question or is it just not known? Maybe that’s another term we could use.
M: That is an interesting question to me because... The way that But the time scale they’re talking about seems to be huge. We’re
I can explain this is that when I was onboard the craft I was given talking about, certainly hundreds of millions of years and
knowledge. It was like saying that I had an education in many possibly billions. How advanced are these people? Where are
areas. Okay? One of the areas was on the evolution of man and they from? Who are they? Or aren’t they extraterrestrials? Are
where we came from, where we’re going. So in this, it was as they time travelers? Are they us in some way, as some people in
though I went to, let’s say, grade three or grade four. So I have my view compellingly claim? Do you know what the score is
only a little bit of knowledge about these different Worlds. I am here? And what’s the relationship between them and the other
not the expert. But I know that there’s others like myself out extraterrestrial races that you must have heard about?
there who would have far greater in-depth knowledge concerning
this question. M: Yes. First of all I’d like to address the different names: The
Keepers, The Watchers, The Caretakers. I call them all of these
What became very clear to me in the visions that I was shown on things, myself, and the reason that I do is in part because they are
the screen was that, for example, in the beginning, they said that all of these things. They do watch over us; they do take care of
it was like they threw the seeds of life across the land and waited us; they are our caretakers; and they keep the knowledge. In my
for life to form and nothing happened. So we were just, you book I write they are the Keepers of the Knowledge that the
know, like worms in mud. This is the image that came into my indigenous people are. They too are the Keepers of the
mind. Knowledge, and so forth. So all of these terms, these different
terms that we use to describe them, are correct in my view.
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The other question was what kind of a scale are we looking at as with any government or any group on the Earth. So let me make
far as time is concerned? Now, it is my understanding again, that clear. I have not been given any direct information regarding
from what they’ve shared with me onboard that craft, that they that. They haven’t said: Yes we work with these people; we’re
have been here since the beginning of the Earth. And that they working over here with that person.
had a hand in creating humanity. That they, too, as it was
described to me by them, that they too seek to know “God” -- However, I have been shown and told certain things that were of
meaning the creator of all that is, all that was, and all that will be, a darker side, and warned of certain things. For example, at one
the creator of everything, the very beginning, the source of all point I was shown something... It’s difficult, difficult for me to
things. talk about. I was shown an image of being in an underground
base that... What took place there was so dark and ugly and
So they were given a task. It’s like saying, you know, whatever horrifying to me that it was difficult for me to deal with.
your job is. When you get up in the morning and you go to work,
that’s what your job is. That’s what you know that you do. Well, I don’t know how to say this nicely, but it was of... I saw images
when we are here on Earth, it is no different for them than to say of beings and of creatures that were just beyond the human
that this is what they do. They are the Caretakers of the Earth and comprehension of being able to see in real life. Now what
this is what they’ve always done. happened... In this time that I was shown this, I was in the astral,
and the being, the tall blond that I was with, said: You must be
As far as what timeline they’re from, it was also described to me very quiet because if you’re not, they will know that we are here.
that some of them are from our past, our present, and our future, And don’t ever come to this particular area. It is very dangerous
because the way that time was described to me, they did have the for you. And I said: Okey doke. I’m not going anywhere near
ability to go back and forth and in the present. They did have that there.
ability. How? You’d have to ask them that because I have no
idea. [laughs] So do these tall blonds have associations with certain groups on
the planet? No, not that I’m aware of.
But they also said that some of them were physical, that they
were no different than you or I. That they lived on the Earth. That You asked me about these other beings that so many people are
they did live under the Earth, inside the Earth. That there were familiar with, which... one of the biggest ones is the Grays. I do
others that were inter-dimensional beings, and there were others not have any direct information, but here’s what I was told by the
on different planets. That all of them were created for the same tall blonds: That they are here as the Caretakers of the Earth and
task in these different areas, and they all had the ability to that they would help protect us from ourselves or other things
communicate with one another. And it was like saying that they that we may not be aware of.
were cousins.
So does that mean other beings? Absolutely. Does it mean that
So, it’s a very complicated question to answer because it is so there’s a presence of other beings on the planet? Absolutely. Am
complicated to explain. It’s almost beyond my words to be able I here to talk about those beings with you? No. Because I want
to clarify it. the message of the tall blonds to be really clear with people, that
they are here in peace and that they do not mean us any harm.
B: Our contact Henry Deacon, who has encountered these
situations from a completely different standpoint, working under They will not come here and take over the Earth. That is not their
contract for the American military and the American Intelligence purpose. If it was their purpose, they would have done it long,
services, has said that it would take a book of at least a thousand long ago. And they do not have a dark agenda in this genetic
pages, and he just did not have the energy to write that. [laughs] program that they have going. And I want to talk about that
Or maybe he said ten thousand. Maybe he’s not counting. because it’s something that’s very important to the people of
Earth.
And the impression I got is that this whole back-story is so
complex, so deep, so convoluted, almost beyond human In the Third World, these individuals that were created were
understanding, such a backdrop of complexity, that it’s like who created for the purpose of spiritual development. And when the
are we to try and figure this out? We’ve actually got our own spiritual development was taking place, all of this knowledge
problems. Anything else is just intellectual curiosity. But the fact about spirit and life was a part of who we are, where we’re from,
is that they’re there. At least some of them are caring about us, it and where we’re going. But again, to reiterate what I’ve already
would seem. said, it was like giving children matches. They just didn’t deal
with it very well. So what has happened since the beginning of
The question I do have, though, linked with what I was just our existence as humanity is that different families all over the
mentioning about the American military and the American Earth have been given this certain genetic information in our
Intelligence services. Do you know anything about the possible genome. Right?
relationships of this group with the military? Or is it a different
group of aliens that they have been working with? Do you know And along the way, certain families are “monitored” by these
anything about that, or is that a question you are unable to Caretakers, not to do anything dark, but to help so that, so very
answer? slowly, these vessels that we are living in, that we are a part of,
have the ability to withstand this greater information and
M: The question is: Will I answer? I have not been told anything knowledge. Because, of course, our brain is nothing more than a
directly by these beings as to any relationship that was formed computer that is based on an electrical charge within the body. So
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if we are over-loaded with electrical charges, we will not be able regarding this phenomenon. I pray that if there are these beings...
to control the pathways in which this information is flowing, and I would ask these people watching to ask themselves this.
we become crazy.
I pray that if there are Caretakers that are looking over us and
So these families have very slowly had their DNA, new strands watching over us, and if they are somehow related to god in any
of DNA, to help facilitate greater understanding, greater way, shape, or form, that they not judge me on the evil people of
knowledge, greater respect for ourselves and the Earth. And this Earth -- because we all look the same. Our general
that’s what’s happened with these families that are being descriptions are the same. So because I am white, I pray that I am
monitored. So that is also why sometimes people have had these not judged by the evil of other white people.
things running in their families, because they’re one of these
families that have been monitored. And that’s why the path So when you come across one of these beings, whether it is in
leading back to where we all came from would be very your dreams, which they can come to you in, or whether it is in
interesting, to be able to look at the family tree of some of these the astral, which means your light body is leaving you, or
families through time. whether it is physical, ask yourself this, right from here: [points
to her heart]Do I have fear or am I simply just afraid? Do I have
K: Isn’t this the... This is actually... The Grays are in a sense fear or terror? Because if you have terror, you need to
working for... At least one faction are working for the tall blonds, understand that, and you need to say: No, I am not going to do
or however you want to call them, because you’re talking about this. I am not going to participate. I do not and will not be a part
also in your ‘88 experience, you have the four-foot-tall beings. of this.
Those were, I assume, the Grays showing you onto the ship, at
which time you were meeting with the tall blonds. So what K: Right. They need to protect themselves. And they have this
happens is, the Grays are actually handling the genetic, sort of, power.
manipulation under the direction of perhaps these higher beings.
M: Yes.
M: Only to a certain degree. And there needs to be some
clarification there -- and this is one of the things that I, myself,
K: And they need to know they have this power.
have been very frustrated with in regard to the whole M: Yes.
phenomenon -- is the terms that we use in order to describe what K: And that’s a very important message.
it is that we’re talking about. For example, when I myself say the
word Gray, the first thing that pops into my mind is a being that M: Yes. It is very important. People forget that. They think: Oh I
has wrinkled skin, has just the whole energy of fear for me don’t have any control. I don’t have any power. You do have a
personally. They have... Their heads are larger, but they’re not certain amount of power regarding this phenomenon when you’re
huge. Their eyes are slightly slanted. That sort of thing. having contact. And so it is really important to protect yourself in
that way, mentally.
When I’m talking about the Grays that I’m talking about, if you
wanted to call them that, these are four feet high with round black And that’s why, again, these tall blonds make it very clear that
eyes and almost look like robots. There’s no features to them we need to educate ourselves, not only in what’s happening
whatsoever. They’re very androgynous. These other Grays with around us in the world, but also on a more spiritual level, because
the wrinkled skin and their little tiny noses, those are a the more spiritually aware you become, the stronger you become,
completely different breed. So there needs to be clarification in the more informed as to how it is that you can move forward
that. spiritually and in the astral and in the dreams, to be able to
protect yourself from some of these other beings.
Here’s what I tell people also. There is something that needs to
be said about the understanding of people out there when All of them. All of the beings that are out there, whether it be
someone such as myself comes forward. When we talk to you Grays or tall blonds, each one that I meet individually, I make
about our experiences, we talk to you about them not only from them look at me in my eyes. I make them look, so that... If
what it is that we’ve experienced but also from our perceptions, they’re looking at me and they’re looking all over the place like
understanding, and how much we were taught by them. this [moves head sporadically from side to side], I say: No, no,
no.
So this is very important, because if five people witness a car
accident, all five people are going to tell a slightly different story. I remember one dream in particular, the two blonds came to me
So the question is: Is the person telling the story a story-maker? and they were trying to give me this very, very strong message.
Are they somebody that, you know, embellishes? You have to And I said to them: You need to look at me.
take that into account. Is the person a very fastidious story-teller,
where they’re telling every detail? You know, you have to take a
And they said: There’s no time. There’s no time.
look at the individual also to be able to know how to take that
story.
And I said: No. You either stop and look at me so that I can look
in your eyes or I’m not speaking to you.
So, when it comes to these beings, I’ve also been told by certain
individuals that these “Grays” have been seen with the tall blonds
and that their agenda is very dark. But here’s what I say. And, So I looked in their eyes and I recognized them as being peaceful
again, this really needs to be having some clarification out there and from the right heart. Because you can’t look at someone, at
the rest of their body. When we want to know who someone is,
140
even in this world, we stop and we look at their eyes: Can I look approach. You don’t even need free energy if you just plant a
at their eyes and be comfortable? garden, right?
We have instant recognition as to whether or not we care for M: Right.

someone or not, so use that in this phenomenon as well. And if K: Yeah. It’s a great idea.
you do not want this happening, tell them. And just keep telling
them that you do not and are not a willing participant, and you
demand that they stop. You need to verbalize that. Will it stop? I M: I wanted to share something else. You asked me a question.
don’t know. It depends on your spirit. It depends on how strong You asked me a question regarding something that was given to
you are. me, and I know that anyone watching this is going to be going
back to that...
K: Okay. Thank you very much for that. That’s very important
and I’m glad we can put that out there. K: Right.
M: What I would like to share with everyone is that people like M: ... because it’s very important. When I was onboard the craft
myself all over the Earth are being stirred to movement. And that in 1988, I had memories come back to me from childhood that
stirring and that movement, I believe, is very relevant for every were very interesting because it was of a time when I was a very
single human being on the Earth. I believe that because we are young child, about four or five years old, when I was taken
being awakened to begin sharing this information with people, onboard a craft. And this memory came back to me very, very
that there are great changes that are coming and that we need to clearly. I really get into the details of this in the book because it is
all understand that. a key point to this phenomenon for myself.
What is this great knowledge? The knowledge is that we’re not Now, to take this story and put it into a few sentences: I was
alone, that we’re being watched, that what we’re doing is being taken on board a craft when I was four years old, and during that
looked upon by other beings that do have a certain amount of time, these beings gave me something and they told me to bury it.
knowledge that we ourselves do not have. And that we need to And they said that one day I would know what it was for and that
take responsibility for ourselves -- only as the individual. I would go back and find it.
You’re not responsible for the Earth. You’re responsible for I get asked this all the time because I’ve written about it in great
yourself. Accept that. Because we are all being awakened, we are detail throughout the course of my life. This thing keeps coming
all making the connections with one another. Where this will all up over and over and over again. I have not found it yet. I know
lead, I believe that all of us are waiting to see. Because nothing is the area that it is in but I have not found it yet.
for sure. We’re writing this plan as we’re going through it.
The question again is: Is it my imagination? Absolutely not.
One of the greatest concerns that I have... In the views, the Because I have had far too many confirmations of this
visions that I was shown, the information that was shared to me information given to me over the years, one in particular coming
onboard that craft, they talked to me a lot when I was with them back to me thirty-five years after the fact -- or sorry, thirty-six
about seeds. And I’m always trying to share this information with years after the fact -- and a very clear, clear indication that these
people. One of the things that could save this Earth is seeds. memories that came back were absolutely crystal clear.
because if every individual on the planet planted a small garden,
we would not have to produce as much oil or transportation or So, is it there? I believe it is. Have I found it? No, I haven’t. Will
pollution or plastics to... you know. Everything. I let you know if I have? I think the world will know if I have.
It would also give every individual on the planet a taste again, a The path that I’ve been on for the last few years of my life, since
glimpse of why we’re here, to be able to experience the beauty 2003, has in a very round-about way been my driving force. And
around us. this object is constantly in my mind. And what I’ve noticed is,
since 2003 to the present day, the images of it have become
Now, I’m going to ask everyone to take away from this whole clearer and clearer and clearer. So does that mean it’s coming
interview today... If they educate themselves on any one thing, back to me? Does that mean it’s physically coming back to me? I
I’m going to ask them to educate themselves on what is believe it is.
happening to the Earth’s seeds. Because it is of great concern to
these tall blonds and always has been, and even for myself, what So I think we’re all, including myself, because I live this life,
I have learned in the last few years regarding seeds and what’s because it is so profound every day even for me, and because of
happening on the Earth. It is the greatest concern that every the things that I’ve experienced in the past. I am no different than
individual should have. anyone else out there. I’m waiting to see what happens next.
If you accept that we’re not alone, that’s great. But educate K: Well, thank you very much, Miriam. I call you Miriam Blue
yourself on seeds because it will change your view of the world Star. And there’s a significance to the Blue Star that you haven’t
and it will change the course of this Earth for the better. mentioned. Would you like to talk about that briefly?
K: Wonderful. Okay. That’s a very different take than you M: Yes. The Blue Star is the prophecy of the Hopi people. And
generally hear, and I think there’s a lot of wisdom there in that again I do not speak on behalf of Hopi. However, when I was on
141
the craft in 1988, they told me that one day a star would appear in K: But there was a blue star in the sky not so long ago. We were
the sky for all of man to see. Nothing or no one would hide its driving through New Mexico at the time and people were
presence from the world and it would be a sign to the people that commenting on it. You don’t actually know if that was the Blue
the end is near and that it is time to prepare. Star? Is that right?
In 2003, when I went through Hopi and I went back home, I then M: Because the Blue Star is a prophecy of the Hopi people, I
went online and I started looking up the Hopi, trying to gather cannot say for sure whether or not that was the Blue Star. But that
information about them. And it was then that I found the Hopi was a comet that blew up. It was ... It’s called 17P/Holmes. If you
prophecy, which is identical as well as the creation myth, to the wanted to look it up, it will give you more information. And this
information that was given to me regarding the Hopi people. was a comet that astounded researchers and astronomers because
of what happened as a result of it. It blew up and it was showing
So the Blue Star is a prophecy of the Hopi people, and I was told blue in the sky all over the Earth. It was very, very clear at that
that the star would appear exactly the same as the Hopi. So what I time. Yes.
would ask is that you do your own research regarding these
people and all the indigenous people around the world. It will .
give you great insight and spiritual understanding.
..
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Project Camelot:
Bob Dean - The Coming Of Nibiru Interview Transcript
Phoenix, Arizona, September 2008
heart... You know, he’d never had a heart problem, but within a
year he was dead with a heart attack.
... Incredible race of humans... does have a future. And it is in the

stars. And we are going out there to reclaim our rightful place.
... It’s kind of amusing considering that the last time we met, I
told you it was to be my last interview and here I am again. And,
you know, how can I explain that?
Start of interview
Kerry Cassidy: We have gotten the most incredible response to

your interview. I have to say it’s actually been the most popular
of all our interviews...
I'm not paranoid. I just pay attention.

BD: That’s nice to hear.
Retired Command Sergeant Major Robert Dean
When we met with Bob Dean in May 2007, he stated that ours KC: ... and I think that there is a reason for that.
would be his last interview. After its publication, we received
more mail - all of it generous and appreciative, without exception BD: Well, thank you.
- than for any other interview we have ever done. We were
therefore quite delighted when he agreed to talk with us on record
once again. KC: I think that in many ways you put yourself on the line, and
you actually embody the curiosity that was, like, rampant in all of
When we asked Bob what he wanted to discuss, he told us that he us. And you did it at a time when... and in the military, no less.
had important news, from his own inside sources, about Nibiru: And you broke rules, and you kind of stuck it out. You’re just...
the highly controversial Planet X. This video contains extremely You’re like...You’re just... I don’t know... a one-man disclosure
important information for all students of Planet X to consider. project, as far as I’m concerned.
True to form, Bob recounts other intriguing stories, including the BD: Well, thank you, Kerry. That’s very kind of you to say that.
NRO's classified discovery of "a goddamn boat" high on Mount But let me explain something. I was a “normal human being” for
Ararat, and confirmation of Henry Deacon's report that the a big portion of my life. You know, I was a career military, no-
Anunnaki are active on present-day Mars. His humanity, his nonsense kind. I wore a crew cut. When I learned what I learned
dignity, his integrity and his humor all shine once again in this in 1963, ’64, ’65, it changed my life. It changed my way of
new video, and we are very confident that everyone who so thinking. And I became obsessed with what I had learned. And,
enjoyed Bob's 2007 interview with us will find this just as over the years, I’ve learned so much more.
entertaining, interesting, and valuable.
And as I may have mentioned to you earlier, I learned a little bit;
Bob Dean: Some of our remote viewers have concluded that, yes, I wanted more. You know, talk about an addiction! When you
it’s going to happen this time, that we and it will be on the same start learning some things about a subject that is so profound...
side of the sun at the same time. And if the remote viewer... And The more I learned, the more I wanted to know, and the more I
they’re getting their own information from ETs, from sources wanted to know, the more I learned, and the more I learned, the
within the U.S. government that tell me that, yes, they are deeply more obsessed I became, and...
concerned about it. And they’re worried sick about it. And they
don’t know what to do about it. You talk about losing your paradigm. My old paradigm literally
crumbled around my knees. You know, the world that I thought I
... What could the government or anyone else tell you? What lived in, I learned was not the world that I lived in. And the
could they say to you? Would they tell you: Grab your hat? Dig reality that I looked around and thought I saw was not the reality
a hole? Hang on!? that exists, that much of what we see is an illusion. It’s a result of
our own illusions.
... He says: Oh, it seems to be a rather nice planet, and we know
about it, and all we need to do is name it. And then, bless his
143
We... we humans sometimes, rather than face reality, we create a open about sharing that with others, which kind of kept us going
little world of our own. You know, we get up and go to work. We for a long, long time.
raise the kids. We buy a house. Buy a car. Take a vacation. Go on
about our lives. Try to save money, put a little in the bank for the There aren’t a hell of a lot of us left. The last time I... Originally,
kids’ college. And live a “normal life”. there was roughly about 150 members of this group, and today
there’s probably not more than a dozen left.
And then I learned that there’s no such thing as a “normal life”,
that the world that exists is not at all what we think it is. And the We lost a good one. You know, Graham Bethune died here, about
more I learned... As I said, my old paradigm crashed around my a year ago. And Graham was a retired Navy Commander who
knees, and... [sighs] was a dear man who had some very sensitive information he used
to share with us.
I’m sitting here in front of you as a human wreck, you might say,
you know, as to what I used to be. Because I lived in a world that But, as I point out, we shared among ourselves. And then a few
was kind of cut and dried. Oh, you know, do this, do that... You of us came out blatantly, purposely, and started sharing what we
pay your bills, you... It’s not that way at all! had learned with the public. Frankly, I never thought I was going
to to get away with it! I thought that they were going to stomp on
KC: Well, let’s cut to the chase here, because you have come me, and you know, eliminate me, or whatever.
forward. Actually, you contacted us, I’m going to say, and said
you’ve got something new to say. You’ve got something new to There was even rumors, for God’s sake, that they were going to
tell the people. And I know you’re going to be speaking at the call me back to active duty and court martial me! [Kerry laughs]
Bay Area Conference. And this is amazing. You know. Well, I’m going to be 80 at my next birthday, so I
don’t think they want to call me back to active duty. You know, I
And let’s find out what is it that’s new. What is it that you’re could have an accident...
willing to...
But, I think why I am getting away with what I am getting away
BD: You want me to divulge to you my great revelations which with, so to speak -- where I am releasing bits and pieces of this
I’m planning to speak about at the conference, right? cover-up -- is that there’s somebody back there somewhere who
wants me to do what I’m doing. Or I would not have been able to
KC: Absolutely! [Bob laughs] And you know, this video will not do this.
be edited and out there before the conference, so you don’t have
to worry that we’re going to ruin it for the viewers at the But let me give you a tiny tidbit of bits and pieces that come from
conference. The Old Boys’ Network: There is an organization called the
National Reconnaissance Office. You’ve probably heard of them.
BD: Well, there are lots of little tidbits that are kind of
interesting to me. I assume, I hope, they’ll be interesting to the KC: Absolutely.
people at San Jose.
BD: A very super-secret group, a super-secret group among
It’s been my experience that the people who attend those super-secret groups. God, we’ve got so damn many groups now.
conferences are pretty wide open, open-minded. As I jokingly
used to say, when I speak there, it’s like preaching to the choir, As I used to jokingly say, when poor old Ike left office, he tried
you know. Because they’re a different group of people. to tell us about the military-industrial complex? Well, it’s a triad
now. It’s not just the military and industry. It’s the national
I’ll give you a tiny tidbit which I found interesting. As you security agencies as well. So, if he could see it today, he’d be
perhaps have understood, I have been a member of what we used shocked even more. Of course, I’m sure he’s alive and well
to jokingly call The Old Boys' Network. I’ve been a member of it somewhere, probably looking down and chuckling.
for over 40 years. And when we created this group, it was made
up of military types, primarily, all ranks, all services. And we But, we are a triad now: The super-secret agencies with the
even had a couple of cosmonauts who were connected with this, military and the industries. It’s all like this. [clasps hands
who were providing information. together]
Well, over the years, the old boys have shared information with But, anyhow, there are people who I think want this out. We’ve
each other, because we’ve had a variety of assignments and jobs known for years that among the “in crowd”... whoever the hell
in the military. We had a couple of admirals. We had a general, they are, and no one really has ever been able to put our finger on
and two cosmonauts. We had innumerable colonels and it. We’ve been able to grab a couple of ’em from the old Magi
command sergeant majors and people from all walks, Group. The Wise Men, they called themselves... the Magi.
everywhere, who provided information we used to share with You’ve heard them referred to as the Majestic Twelve. Well, they
each other. are a lot more than twelve now.
And some of us have been in very sensitive positions and had Anyhow, I’m getting away with sharing bits and pieces and
access to very highly classified material. And we’ve been very tidbits which intrigue me because I think somebody wants some
of this out.
144
But the story I was going to share with you is that... In the KC: But a boat built by humans?
National Reconnaissance Office, about, I guess four or five years
now, they had for a number of years a series of satellites called BD: Well, it appears to be. It’s essentially, from what they
the Keyhole System. Have you heard of it? gathered, wood. But, it’s a work of genius, apparently. It was
intricately put together, and it’s really...
KC: Ah, yes.
K: And it’s survived all these years.
BD: Keyhole. It was super-secret and probably the very best
satellite system in the world. Well, they’ve probably made it even BD: Well, apparently. The question, how many years? You
better now. They could supposedly read a postage stamp from know... when was the flood? The last rumor I heard had that it
space. was 12,000 years ago: 10,500 BC.
Well, there were some intriguing questions being raised by a KC: When are they saying? I mean, I’m sure you have a theory.
number of people about what was known as the Ararat Anomaly.
Are you familiar with the Ararat Anomaly?
BD: Well, the religious implications of it, you see. You know,
every ancient culture on the planet has a similar tradition about a
Bill Ryan: Mount Ararat. Noah’s Ark. flood, and I’m sure there were many Noahs, so to speak,
wherever.
KC: OK.
But the idea that this particular thing is so theologically sensitive
BD: And so, the guys in the NRO took their Keyhole system and that some yo-yo back there at NRO decided to classify it... And
focused on the Ararat Anomaly, which is, you know, a puzzle. then they sent the SEALs in and the SEALs brought back
Well, when the word got out, when the pictures were finally artifacts. Well, there you are, you see!
down-loaded and they computerized and enhanced them and
cleaned them up, and they pushed them on the wall or they What could they have possibly found in this big wreck that is so
broadcast them on the wall there at NRO, the remarks went sensitive? The question arises. I don’t know the answer to that.
something like this -- and these are actual quotes: Jesus Christ, Hopefully, if the Old Boys still stays alive a few years, we might
it’s a god-damn boat! Christ! It’s a big boat! find out.
OK. One would say: Why would something like that be so highly I find that interesting and I share it with people because it gives
classified that it is way above top secret? Why would the you an insight into that bunch of nitwits back there that classify
discovery of a boat on Mount Ararat be classified so far above, everything! [Kerry laughs]
you know... anything?
KC: Bill, go ahead with your question about Mount Ararat. And
Anyhow, the story comes out. The reason they classified it is then we’re going to move on from there.
because, after they discovered that it is a god-damn boat, a big
god-damn boat, they inserted a team of SEALs on the site. That’s
a term that the military uses to put a bunch of guys on a scene. BR: I think it was Charles Berlitz who wrote a book which was
called The Lost Ship of Noah. And he published a bunch of
photographs -- these photographs are on the internet -- of
KC: Right. something that looks like a ship on Ararat. And there are two
versions of this, from what I’ve heard. One is fairly low down,
BD: Apparently they dropped them by aircraft. They parachuted and which is an enormous thing that looks like a whole lot of
down, a dozen of them or so. They inserted them onto the scene ship’s timbers.
and these guys spent several days in this god-damn boat. And
then they extracted them by helicopters. And there are persistent reports of another object that’s much
higher up, way above the snow line, quite close to the summit.
And when they extracted them, the guys brought with them some And I wonder if you could say which of these, if either, has been
“anomalous artifacts” which have never been described or picked up by the Keyhole satellites and analyzed? And when the
named. But those anomalous artifacts is what led to this whole SEALs were inserted, did they carbon-date the wood?
thing being classified not only Top Secret, but the way the hell
above. BD: Oh, I’m sure they must have. But I haven’t got any
information on that.
And that’s a little bit of information that’s come out via the
network of the Old Boys. My guess is, Bill, that the SEALs were inserted on the one
toward the top, above the snow line. That’s the indication that I
KC: So are you saying this is Noah’s Ark? got, that that was the one that... They went in, they landed, they
dropped, they parachuted in and spent a number of days up there,
BD: No one knows what it is. It was originally the Ararat apparently.
Anomaly, but then they discovered that it was a gigantic boat,
apparently, and...
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But what they brought back in terms of anomalous artifacts is the BD: But the common folk, you’re not supposed to know that.
thing that intrigued me. Why would they classify it so far above
Top Secret? KC: Right.
But that bunch of nitwits back there.... And I’ve known some of BD: Why? Well, you can’t handle it, you see. The implications
them over the years; I’ve worked with some of them. And I think of it are just too vast.
they are a bunch of damn nitwits! You know, there is no damn
reason why they’ve classified so much.
KC: Well, tell me this: Do the Chinese know it?
KC: What year was this when the SEALs were sent in?
BD: Oh, I’m sure they do. As you may know, the Chinese now
have gone into space in a big way. It never gets into the
BD: About five years ago, from what I can gather. newspaper, but the last I heard, the Chinese have a satellite
orbiting the Moon, taking lots of pictures.
KC: Really?
Well, I’m hoping that the Chinese publish a lot of those pictures,
BD: Yes. because our own NASA people took many, many pictures. The
Army took thousands of pictures under the Clementine Project.
KC: That’s bizarre. Are you familiar with Clementine?
BD: Well, the Keyhole program was really big in the late ’90s. KC: I’ve heard of it.
Now, I’m sure they’ve got satellite programs that are even better
now. We’ve got civilian programs that are so damn good that the BD: It was not a NASA program. It was an Army program,
Department of Defense will often go to the civilian contractors Department of Defense. They took thousands of pictures.
and buy photographs taken by civilian satellites that are They’ve only released a dozen or so. They took pictures all
outstanding. around the Moon, back side, bottom, top, everywhere.
So it leads you to suspect, maybe, what...how much better could KC: Well, are you in touch with Richard Hoagland?
be some of our DoD satellites.
BD: I know Richard. He’s a good friend.
K: Right.
KC: OK. So you know some of his recent research.
BD: You know, they have classified Lake Vostok. They took it
away from JPL who was monitoring it and, you know, with BD: Ah, well, I read his recent book, which is dynamite.
satellites and all... Are you familiar with Lake Vostok in
Antarctica?
KC: Uh huh. OK. So, you know about the Secret Space Program.
KC: No.
BD: Oh, yes.
BD: Oh, God, that’s a sensitive story in itself!
KC: And you know about the von Braun and the Nazis and
what’s been carried over to the U.S. political system.
Under the ice in Antarctica there is a fresh-water lake deep, deep
down under the ice, that’s 100 miles long and 50 miles wide.
Fresh water. The temperature in the damn lake is about 65 BD: Oh, yes. It’s bigger than that. It’s much bigger.
degrees, which is pleasant swimming, you might say.
KC: OK. But when I raised up Richard Hoagland’s information
But at the end of Lake Vostok is what’s known as a gigantic and the stuff that he’s been bringing forward about von Braun,
masscon -- a mass concentration of metal, very similar to the the Nazis, you know, Paperclip... and you’re saying it’s much
masscons they discovered on the Moon -- a gigantic, circular- beyond that.
shaped, metallic object deep under the ice at the end of Lake
Vostok. BD: It is.
Highly classified. JPL had it. The National Security Agency took KC: So where are we going with that?
it away from JPL. It’s one of the most sensitive things in the
world now, as to what is the anomaly at the end of the lake -- the BD: Our original space program was all a product of the Nazi
mass con -- the mass concentration that is so easily picked up by party. Without von Braun and his crew and the Paperclip
satellite? Another top secret, you know? program, I don’t think we would have gotten to the Moon when
we did, or we certainly wouldn’t have beaten the Russians.
KC: Mm hm. Because the Russians grabbed their crowd... they also went into
Germany and grabbed a bunch of scientists.
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And the Russians have a tremendous scientific program of their BD: ...walk in our midst, and you would never know.
own. You know, they didn’t need Nazi scientists. They would
have eventually done it on their own anyhow. KC: And they weren’t nine feet tall, or higher?
But one of the biggest secrets of all is the Secret Space Program, BD: No. The ones I’ve met and the ones I’ve seen aboard the
the fact that NASA is... It’s like Blue Book used to be. I think it’s ships are not that big at all. They’re just like us.
a public relations front.
KC: Uh huh.
KC: Right. Yes.
BD: So, we’re dealing with four different groups that I’ve
BD: Blue Book never handled the real good stuff. And concluded -- my own personal view.
everybody knew that, except the common folk out there who
were diddled regularly and never told the truth about anything.
KC: OK.
But the big secret seems to have been for so long, is: Why are we
keeping classified the enormous facilities on the Moon? And BD: You might talk to Jim Sparks and he might tell you there are
they’re not ours. eight, or ten, or a dozen more. I don’t know. I can only tell you
what little bit I’ve learned over the years.
KC: Whose are they?
There are four different groups that I’ve encountered, and they
are all humanoid. One group is completely human. And not all of
BD: Well, that’s a good question. I can tell you flatly who they the Anunnaki are nine feet tall. They were human enough that we
are. are related to them, and they’re related to us.
KC: OK. And that lovely little story in Chapter Six of Genesis is quite true.
They did, indeed, engineer the genes and chromosomes of an
BD: Are you familiar with the term Anunnaki? existing species on this planet... God knows how long ago.
Sitchin says it was 200,000 years.
KC: Absolutely.
The information I have learned indicates one of the major
BD: All right. Well, you really have to understand Zecharia tweakings took place about 60,000 years ago, that Homo sapiens
Sitchin’s work to really grasp where we stand today in sapiens were tweaked and genetically manipulated even more.
relationship with this group of intelligences. And, I’m not So, we’re coming along slowly.
speaking of one. There are several. The last I heard, there were
four different groups we were relating with. The Anunnaki are KC: OK, so what four races? Let’s name ’em, in your opinion.
one. And there are others.
BD: Well, there are the humans.
KC: OK. I mean, this is very interesting. Can you describe the
Anunnaki that you... First of all, have you had exposure to them KC: OK.
face-to-face?
BD: Some people call them the Nordics. Then you have guys
BD: Me? that are very pale, and very tall, and very broad...
KC: Yes. KC: Uh huh.
BD: Yes, I have met some face-to-face. Now, whether they were BD: ... which some people refer to as the big whites.
the Anunnaki, I don’t know.
KC: OK.
KC: OK, well...
BD: And then you have the little guys.
BD: The ones I’ve met face-to-face were typically human.
KC: The Grays? And then the Anunnaki. So those are the four
KC: Typically human. you’re familiar with.
BD: I mean, they put on a suit and tie, a dress, blue jeans, T- BD: And not all of the Grays are an evolved species. Some of
shirt... them appear to be... What is the term they used to use? They were
an artificial life form.
KC: OK.
KC: Androids?
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BD: Yes, they were humanoid androids, but they were orbit by an “anomalous object” that came up from the surface.
constructed. They’re laboratory products. And they often But, it took... It had taken a number of outstanding photographs
wondered why, in cases of crashes where there were survivors, before it was damaged and crashed.
that some of them didn’t come back and try to retrieve.
KC: OK. What... Well, you called it an “anomalous,” I don’t
And the story that came out among the military for many years know, “object” that came up from the surface. Meaning the
was that they wrote ’em off! They went back and made more. surface of the Moon?
Now, there are some people who say, Well, they don’t have a BD: Mars.
soul. Well, I’ve run into human beings that I begin to wonder
whether they had a soul. [Kerry laughs] KC: Or from the Earth?
BD: Yes.
But...
KC: OK.
KC: OK. So...
BD: No, the Phobos program was sent to Mars because they had
BD: There are two types of Grays, from what I’ve learned. There hoped to land a lander on the satellite Phobos.
are the little guys who appear to be laboratory products. And then
there are the six-foot Grays whose eyes are more round. And
they’re not really gray. They’re just sort of a chalky, off-white KC: Right.
color.
BD: There are two circling Mars which are anomalous. Again,
KC: Mm hm. that fantastic word: anomalous. Astronomers consider them
anomalous because, first of all, they’re going in the wrong
direction for a natural satellite, whatever that means.
BD: And they seem to be an evolved race all of their own. And I
think those are the ones that probably ran into Betty Hill and
Barney at the incident many years ago. They’re too small to be natural satellites, and they’re too close to
the surface of Mars to have survived because, if they were
natural, they would long ago have been brought down, sucked in
KC: Have you heard about Dan Burisch talking about the by gravity, and crashed. The fact that they’re still there puzzles
Orions? They’re sitting in ships, along with the military, actually everybody.
watching the planet right now?
So the Russians said: We’re going to land on Phobos. It’s about
BD: I’ve heard bits and pieces of that. I don’t know too much twelve miles in diameter. I think Deimos is only about six or
about Dan’s story. He’s come out with a great many things. seven. And they were going to take some pictures on the surface.
Well, you know, apparently the intelligences up there decided,
KC: OK. But this is just new information that he has actually No, you’re not going to do that, and bumped Phobos -- the
come forward with. satellite that the Soviets sent up -- knocked it out of orbit, and it
crashed, apparently.
BD: Well...
KC: But they’ve been doing that to the JPL craft going up and
KC: And they’re watching the planet to see what happens, and around Mars for years now.
whether or not we have a catastrophe of any kind...
BD: There is an intelligence on Mars that wants to limit our
BD: We have got... access to their reality. And they’ve done a damn pretty good job
of it.
KC: ...and whether they might have to step in.
KC: Well, our witness, Henry Deacon... and I don’t know if
you’re familiar with him.
BD: We have photographs, and many of them I’m going to share
at the show. I have slides, and photographs, of gigantic objects.
I’m talking about humongous objects in space! And many of BD: I’m familiar with him. I don’t know him well.
them are satellites in their orbit around the planet. Many of them
are in orbit around the Moon, around Mars. KC: OK. He has said that the Anunnaki are on Mars... in bases.
I have a couple of pictures that I’m going to share that I got from BD: They are. I agree with that.
a Soviet cosmonaut on what happened with the Phobos thing.
KC: So, are they the ones shooting down those objects? You
The Russians... you know, their famous Phobos rocket system know, the various craft from JPL, and so on?
that they sent up there some years back which got knocked out of
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BD: Probably... Look, Zecharia has said... And, I know this old KC: And it’s hard to get ahold of, I understand.
man; I respect him tremendously. Ah... he says they never left.
They withdrew overtly from their activities on the planet with us, BD: Yes. It should be re-issued because it’d sell like hot cakes.
but their activities have continued covertly both on Earth, the
Moon, and Mars.
KC: Absolutely.
And from the knowledge I have and the limited amount of
information I’ve been able to get, the primary focus, the primary BD: I spoke about it on Coast-to-Coast a couple of times with
intelligence behind all of this, are the Anunnaki, the same group Art Bell, and apparently it became so damn hot that, you know,
that genetically engineered us so many thousands of years ago. you can’t find a copy... two or three hundred dollars each, if you
can find one.
KC: OK. But you’ve got Enki and Enlil, right? And these are
warring brothers, and one is working for the positive side of KC: Yes, well I have... I don’t know if I still have it, but I had
humanity and the other... one.
BD: Well, you have this dysfunctional family. They even went BD: Well, hold onto it. It’s gold.
to war with each other, and man was in the middle, as he always
has been. You know, we were a product of their engineering. KC: Uh huh.
They engineered us as a slave species. They engineered us to
work for them. BD: But Ingo is gold, himself.
KC: But aren’t they still at war? KC: OK. But let’s kind of move back to the question, because I
want to get, sort of, drilled down to this answer. So they’re still at
BD: Apparently, there is still... and some of our remote war?
viewers... and I know a few of them... I’ve done a little of it
myself, and, believe me, it works. I’ve been accused of being BD: They still have a difference of opinion about us. Now,
guilty of front-loading, so to speak, because when I want to look whether Enlil and...
at something, I know what I want to look at.
KC: Enki.
The military originally trained their guys to not know what they
were looking for, and then they would down-load, you know,
compare and such. BD: Ea... Enki... He goes by two names. Whether they still are
alive or not... With the genetic geniuses that they have been, that
they are, they can genetically manipulate... You know, they
KC: Right. ingeniously genetically manipulated their ownchromosomes,
DNA, till they literally have become practically immortal.
BD: But, when I want to look at something, I know exactly what
I want to look at. One of the greatest, of course, is Ingo Swann. Now, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Enki and Enlil may still be
alive. Maybe they’re running around with a cane, like I do,
KC: Oh, absolutely. [Kerry laughs] grunting and groaning. You know, they’ve got the
great-great-grandkids doing the running and... I don’t know that,
BD: Oh, a tremendous guy! What an intellect that guy is! and I’m sure that no one else does.
KC: Oh, incredible. We’re dying to interview him. Do you know But, apparently the factions are still divided, and the one side
him? wants to use us as they always did. And the other side wants to
give us the opportunity to be our own species, to chart our own
future, and to call... you know, to determine our own lives. And
BD: He and I have corresponded. Yes. I wrote a nice article there apparently has been this difference of opinion going on.
about him one time years ago, and he wrote me a letter and
thanked me for it and told me he appreciated it a lot.
KC: So, when we get back to the national security state, and the
state of the U.S. right here and now... I mean, you’re an ex-
KC: Lovely. Yes. military. I hardly want to call you “ex” because I think you’re, in
some ways, probably still consulted here and there. You know,
BD: But he is a rare man. He’s a rare intellect. Not only is he we’re about to go to war with Iran...
probably the best remote viewer we’ve ever had, perhaps, other
than Pat Price, that... Ingo’s come up with stuff on the Moon BD: No, we’re not.
that... You’d have to read his book.
KC: What’s you’re perspective on this? We’re not?
KC: Actually, I have.
BD: No, we’re not.
BD: Penetration. It’s dynamite.
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KC: OK. BD: He helped...
BD: And that’s my opinion, for whatever it’s worth, you know. KC: OK. I’m going to change gears.
KC: Sure. BD: He worked with Cremo on the...
BD: I have a half-penny in my pocket... I don’t believe that KC: Oh, really.
we’re going to have a nuclear war because I don’t think the
custodians will allow it. The planet is too valuable. It’s too rich a BD: Yes. They jointly wrote that book on The Hidden History of
reservoir of life. Not only the humans that are here on this planet, the Human Race.
but all the other creatures. This planet is an absolute cornucopia
of beautiful, beautiful forms of life. And, not only that, but the...
What is it? The fauna and the... what’s the other term? KC: Oh, OK.
KC: The flora? BD: Cremo and Thompson wrote that. Well, Richard wrote a
book of his own called Alien Identities and it’s filled with Vedic
facts which you would enjoy.
BD: The flora! The flora is infinite, almost. No, the planet’s too
valuable.
KC: Yes.
KC: OK.
BD: But the history’s pretty clear. They’ve intervened over the
centuries again, and again, and again, wherever it seemed
BD: They’ve got a lot invested in planet Earth and they’re not appropriate to their benefit on their behalf.
about to let it go to a nuclear war, because they have the power to
see that it does not happen.
KC: OK, but...
And I want to tell you something else. You’ve heard this old
rumor about the “Prime Directive”? BD: They’ve gotten in our wars. They’ve messed around in that
whole mess.
KC: Mm hm.
KC: OK, but what about Planet X?
BD: Bullshit! It doesn’t exist. [Kerry laughs]
BD: Oh, it’s a reality.
KC: Right. OK.
KC: Yes?
BD: They have been interfering here, breaking the so-called
Prime Directive, over centuries, thousands of times. They have BD: Yes.
been interfering, according to our historical records, back to
ancient Greece. They probably had a hand in that damn dust-up at KC: So what are they going to do about that?
Troy. You know, they took sides. There were even rumors in
Homer’s reports that the gods themselves came down and took BD: Well, apparently they are concerned about... You know the
sides and played in the game. To them, it’s a game. story. According to Sitchin and according to the Sumerians, it’s a
reality. Well, our astronomers apparently have concluded that it
KC: Right. Well, the Bhagavad Gita, if you’re familiar with it... I is indeed a reality.
mean they go into...
For almost a century, astronomers have been concerned and
BD: There you are... filled with it. The Vedas are filled with it, interested about what they called an intruder that seems to come
you see. and go from time to time. And, they can measure it by the
perturbations and the effects on other planets.
KC: Absolutely.
They’ve known of its existence for a long time, but they’ve never
BD: Richard Thompson is a genius. He’s written a book about it. gone public about it. Well, in the early ’80s, the JPL... The guys
Alien Identities it’s called. at ...
KC: OK. I’ll take a look. KC: Jet Propulsion Lab.
BD: You ought to read it if you get a chance. Richard Thompson BD: Jet Propulsion... We used to call it the Jack Parsons’
Laboratory, which I think is probably where the original JPL
came from.
KC: Yes, I’d love to.
150
KC: Yes. Let me give you a tiny example: A number of years ago, there
were two brilliant guys working at the Naval Observatory in
BD: Because Jack Parsons established it. Anyhow, they sent out Washington. Tom Van Flandern is one, who I hope you’ve
a couple of Pioneers – satellites -- back in ’82, just to try to interviewed.
determine if there was some truth to it. And the Pioneers
apparently came back with data which said not only Yes, but KC: No, but please continue. We’d love to do that.
Hell, Yes! And the Pioneers concluded... the Pioneer satellite data
concluded. BD: He’s no longer with the Naval Observatory. The other one
was the Chief Astronomer at the Observatory, a brilliant man by
So, wow! Astronomers were troubled by that. Whew! Could this the name of Robert Harrington.
thing be real? Well, and what did they do? They sent out what
they call an infrared astronomical satellite. I think they called it KC: Right.
IRAS. And this was done in ’83. They sent the IRAS out, taking
infrared pictures all around the ecliptic, above and below.
BD: And Harrington gave an interview to Zecharia Sitchin a
number of years ago, I think it was ’91 or so, where he came right
And apparently IRAS got two giant, positive responses that yes, out and said:
the twelfth planet, the tenth planet, however you want to call it...
yes, it’s real. And that’s when the lid slammed down.
Dr. Sitchin, we are interested in this because it ties in perfectly
with the work you’ve done on the Sumerians and the ancient
KC: So it’s out there. It’s on its way back in, right? planet Nibiru. He said: We’ve found it. It’s real. We have
photographs of it. And, he says, from what we can put together,
BD: According to the Sumerians and Sitchin, apparently it is. it’s a rather nice planet.
And if you are a student of history as I -- one of my majors -- its
last pass was 1600 BC. The Sumerians, and Sitchin, and all of It’s about two and a half times the size of the Earth. Apparently
those say it has an orbit of 3600 years. it’s heading toward the system, the center of the system. We’ve
concluded about everything about it, except that we haven’t
KC: Mm hm. named it.
BD: So, like many of us, you know, I count on my fingers and And Zecharia spoke up and he said: It’s already been named. He
toes and figure out... Well, 1600 BC. It has an orbit of 3600 said: You simply call it Nibiru, as the Sumerians called it... The
years. Wow! It’s due! Well, apparently, it is. Now. Planet of the Crossing.
KC: So why are they keeping this a secret? KC: Mm hmm
BD: Because... BC: Well, Mrs. Sitchin and I were in agreement. I miss her. She
died about a year ago. She was convinced that Robert Harrington
KC: Because you’re an expert on secrets. had died because somebody bumped him off because he had the
courage to come out and give Zecharia this interview.
BD: Listen [sighs]... Every time Nibiru would make a pass, it
was not always devastating. It would depend on whether the I don’t know whether you’ve seen it or not. It’s on tape.
planet Earth and Nibiru were on the same side of the Sun at the
same time. And if we were on the same side of the Sun at the KC: No, I haven’t seen it, but we interviewed Luca
same time, all hell would break loose on planet Earth. Scantamburlo about this subject and he’s also talked about
Robert Harrington.
Well, apparently the last pass triggered the explosion of
Santorini. Thera, the volcano in the Mediterranean, the Aegean BD: Yes. Well, Harrington gave the interview to Zecharia, and
Sea, blew its top, brought to a close the great, great Minoan it’s on a video called Are We Alone? And I think you can pick it
civilization, among other things. up at the conference here next week.
It affected Egypt. It’s all in the records, apparently. There are KC: OK.
even historians and theologians who say that Santorini’s
explosion is exactly what you’re reading about when the plagues BD: I have a copy. And I sent a copy to Neil Freer, who’s a man
and all hit Egypt, and allowed Moses to get the Israelites out. you should interview.
But if you look at 1600 BC and figure... and that was the KC: OK. Well, we’re in touch with Neil. He’s a very interesting
relatively recent past. It’s due now, and apparently the guys in the guy. He’s a brilliant guy.
astronomical observatories know it. And that, again, is Above
Top Secret.
151
BD: He’s brilliant. He just recently came out and admitted that But I don’t think Nibiru is an icy rock. No. I think, first of all,
he’s had an intimate inter-relationship with extraterrestrial that it probably generates enough of its own heat, and I think they
intelligence since he was a child. probably did, indeed, create for themselves, with the advanced
technology that they have, a kind of a Dyson sphere. Are you
KC: Well, he’s always talking about the Anunnaki. I do know familiar with that?
this.
BR: Mm hm.
BD: Well, he wrote a book called Breaking the God Spell. And
he has supported Zecharia’s work for years. BD: You know what, the brilliant British astronomer, I think,
Freeman Dyson, said some years ago that an incredibly advanced
BR: I have a question, Bob, if I may, about the provenance of technology will have the ability to enclose its planet and retain
this information, in the sense that Zecharia Sitchin’s work is very not only its heat, but its atmosphere. And I suspect that the
well documented, and a lot of people watching this video will be Anunnaki have done that to Nibiru. And the probably did it...
very familiar with his books and with all the intelligent good lord... hundreds or thousands or maybe a million years ago.
commentary about that.
So the planet... I think the color from it, the dull red-golden color,
Are you saying you have additional information based on your is a result of that envelope of gold shell that they’ve created.
contacts within the Old Boys Network? Or are you doing a neat They’ve created for themselves a Dyson sphere around their
presentation of...? planet. And I suspect that any advanced technology will
ultimately do the same, simply because it makes sense. It’s a
practical thing.
BD: Many of my conclusions are my own, you know, and they,
in many respects, correlate perfectly with Sitchin’s work which
is... You know, Neil has told me... He says, you know, Zecharia BR: If they had that degree of engineering capability, why
really should get the Nobel Prize. But I don’t know what they wouldn’t they just live on Mars instead of hurtling through the
would grant it to him, in what field. But he’s such an outstanding solar system?
scholar in what he’s done and with his...The Earth Chronicles is
what he calls all of his work. I think there are seven or eight of BD: Well, they weren’t the original occupants of Mars.
them now.
BR: OK.
BR: I have two questions. One is a minor one to do with celestial
mechanics. And it’s just something that I’ve never understood. BD: They used Mars as a way-station, and they’ve reactivated it.
And I’ve heard this from... I’ve heard this question from many I agree with Zecharia on that, that they’ve reactivated their way-
other people, as well... that if Nibiru comes from the outer system, their way-station there. They used to drop off on Mars on
reaches of the solar system, it’s going to be an icy rock, which their way here.
isn’t going to be the kind of place that any beings could live on,
or would want to live on.
So they were never, I don’t think, original inhabitants of Mars.
And researcher Andy Lloyd, who you have probably heard about,
has theorized that what they’re seeing in the photographs that you BR: No. I like what you’re saying.
refer to as an orange object is actually a Brown Dwarf, with the
possibility of Nibiru being one of its moons, if you like. BD: There are a few remnants of the original inhabitants on
Mars. There is even some indications which I’ve been looking
And there’s a lot of debate about how to apply what Sitchin into, and I’ve gotten some data, that we’re playing host to a
seems to have been saying to the real practicalities of life on an bunch of Martians here on this planet. I’m talking about the
icy rock out in the orbit of Pluto. And I wondered if you knew, or original species.
had anything to say about that.
BR: Do you know anything about the original Martian species?
BD: No, it’s not an icy rock. And yes, when it makes its long Or, have you ever...
journey out and back, it gets so far away from the sun that the sun
is probably no more than a little tiny prick of light, a little tiny BD: Other than... The only thing... I’ve talked to a couple of
pinpoint. And you would think that it would be naturally icy cold. remote viewers who’ve apparently been able to come face-to-face
with them, so to speak, and they ended up looking a lot like
No, it ... Apparently the planet, like many planets in the system American Indians.
here, generates its own heat. It has in its core a generating heat
system very much like our own. BR: Mm hm. OK.
We have a system within the core of this planet that is a... that BD: And I may have met a Martian [laughing]. I’ve known so
has been described as a thermonuclear reaction, very similar to many strange people in my life.
the sun. Now, most of the life and all of the bounty and all of the
beauty of life on this planet comes from our going around this BR: Sure. I mean, I understand this well enough to know not to
beautiful sun. laugh at a comment like that. That’s for sure, so...
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That, believe it or not, was meant to be a minor question. I have a They look upon us like we look upon head-hunters in New
more major one, something that I thought you might want to talk Guinea.
about. Or, maybe I misunderstood you a little earlier on, I think,
in a conversation that Kerry had reported with you. Now, you’ve seen the films, you know, History Channel and all
the rest. They’re naked. They’re running around with these stupid
Some serious researchers, Linda Howe, Jim Marrs, quite a lot of things on their penises and, you know, bones through their...
other people, are really suspecting that there may a hoaxed alien whatever. Pathetic, sad, primitive savages. They’re not to be
invasion as a kind of major celestial 911 event in our skies. feared. They’re not to be abused. They’re to be nurtured and
cared for.
BD: You’re talking about a false flag kind of situation?
Well, the difference between some of them out there [points
BR: False flag, yes. And,.. upward] and us is the difference between us and these poor guys
in New Guinea and those rain forests out there.
BD: If we were to pull that off... If any of our idiot nitwits back
there think that they could pull that off, I think they’d make Now, I joked about that, and then I learned later that that wasn’t
absolute damn fools of themselves. Because I don’t believe it really a very accurate comparison. I learned later that I didn’t
would work. I don’t think you can do that when you’ve got the even come close to an appropriate comparison! That the real
real power out there that wouldn’t allow that to happen! comparison between many of them [points upward] out there and
us is closer to how we feel about the chimpanzee.
BR: Not so much an “invasion,” but a big display in the sky to
create fear and make you believe... to control... like Carol Rosen And, Bill, if you allow your mind to take those trips, and I know
said that she had always been told by Wernher von Braun many you do, there are creatures and life forms out there that are
years ago. literally god-like. A lot of the remote viewers who have
encountered them -- and I’ve seen a few of them myself -- look
upon them as transcendentals.
BD: Yes, Wernher shared that, apparently, before he died, that
he... It was one of the programs that the government at the time
was considering. You know, they’ve had these little plots they’ve They manifest as living energy life forms, forms of light. They’re
been working on all the time. This war, that war, a stock market the same kind that appeared when Jesus was walking around.
crash... this, that, you know... all these little magician things that, Probably the same kind of guys that showed up for poor... what
that while I’m showing you this hand, I’m picking your pocket was it? Joseph Smith. I know the history of the Mormon faith.
with this one. Poor Joe had an event one time happening in his bedroom where
two brilliant, beautiful, tall, glimmering, glistening beings of pure
light appeared in his bedroom. Those were transcendentals.
They may have had that in mind at that time, but I don’t think
they’re thinking of it seriously now, because I think that our so-
called Powers That Be -- which is a joke -- are in such close Now, the difference between them and us is between us and the
relationship and collusion with the real power [points upward] Rhesus monkey. [Bill laughs] So, I think I’m getting close.
that it would never work. They would never allow it. Maybe not. But I’m thinking I’m getting close to an analogy that
may be more realistic.
It’s like they’re [points upward] not going to allow a
thermonuclear war. I have nothing but hope because I’m an immortal being. I’m an
infinite life form. If you could see me the way I really am, Bill, it
wouldn’t be in this pathetic body with the ...
BR: Yes.
BR: It’s only our bodies we’re describing.
BD: There’s too much valuable real estate here! Not just this rich
gold mine of human genetics. What a ripe reservoir we are, of
genes and... God! The whole species plus all of the other fauna BD: Oh, that’s right! You know, this is just the shell. I’ve had it
and all of the other flora... this is a valuable planet. And they love for 79 years. I’ve used it badly, and I’ve abused it over the years.
it. They own it! [Kerry laughs] And I’m beginning to pay the lessons, the prices,
for that. But if you could see me as I can see you... We are
shimmering beings of light.
We’ve never owned it. We just live on it. They farm us, so to
speak. God! [sighs] [Kerry laughs]
BR: Yes.
Charles Forte was right, to some degree. We are property. And
we’re going to remain property until we reach a point where we KC: Absolutely. Well, OK. I have a question for you because
can literally stand up and say: All right. We’re going to do this he’s [meaning Zecharia Sitchin] got a book out called End of
now ourselves. And prove it to the universe. Days.
We’re dealing with a universe filled with life! And most of it is BD: Yes.
so far beyond our own! I used an analogy one time. And I said:
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KC: And, in that book, he actually talks about Nibiru and the
return. But he doesn’t say that it’s actually going to happen now.
BD: He says... He thinks it’s about 2060. That was his estimate.
KC:
OK. And so, where does this information that you have, and
2012... How do we put this all together? Because I’m going to
say something about what you’re telling us... because it’s clear
that you’re something of an intelligence analyst yourself. You
certainly have an incredible background. You can cross-correlate,
and so on. But you also have some insider contacts. And you also
have contact with Anunnaki, as you’ve said. All right?
So, where are you getting your information? And are they saying
anything specific about what’s happening in 2012? Because I’m
not so sure about Zecharia’s conclusion.
BD: Yes.
BD: He said 2060, but apparently it could be before that. The
Department of Defense is quite concerned about it. There are KC: It’s been made the laughing stock. It’s an amazing thing!
entire sections of the Defense Department that are working on
that subject, particularly.
BD: Oh, the ridicule is [shakes head]...
The big question is: Are we and it going to be on the same side of
the sun at the same time? And some of our remote viewers have KC: I mean, I think it supersedes even the ET ridicule.
concluded, yes, it’s going to happen this time; that we and it will
be on the same side of the sun at the same time. BD: Oh, it does! It does.
And if the remote viewer... And they’re getting their information KC: I think it’s been so strong. And it actually has come, I would
from ETs, and much of my information is from the same source. say, from the Vatican.
And, yes, we’re in for some bad times.
BD: Mm hm.
KC: And we’re talking about while we’re still here on the planet,
because I don’t know that we’d be alive during 2060. KC: So what are they so afraid of, number one? And, number
two, have you heard the theory that basically what has to happen
BD: Well, I don’t know whether I’ll still be here or not. You is, a protective shield is going to be put around the Earth such
know, I’ll be 80 in March and, you know, I’ve got a ticket out of that this time it’s actually not going to have the impact that it has
here. in the past?
KC: Right. BD: I’ve heard that rumor in passing, and the technology exists
to do that. What I have a suspicion is that much of what will
BD: I’ve got it stamped. I’ve got it paid. I’m nine years beyond transpire will be allowed to transpire. The Earth is not going to be
my warranty as it is! destroyed, and the human race is not going to come to an end.
But it is going to be a difficult period of time when it begins. And
let me tell you, it has already begun.
KC: [laughing] No, but I think that you’re going to live quite a
while. So, what...
The reaction from the sun is a clear response to the presence of
this other body. Now, this other body has already been
OK. So we’ve got this interesting thing going on and we’re photographed by telescopes in southern Chili and in New
getting... We have a huge crack-down on anything to do with Zealand.
Planet X.
I had asked Marcia to dig into her files. I had an article from a
good friend who publishes a magazine in Rome. Adriano. I don’t
know whether you know about Adriano Forgione. Brilliant young
man.
KC: Yes.
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BD: Anyhow, he has connections with the Vatican. He has good KC: The R&R facility for who? What, the Anunnaki?
friends who are Jesuit priests and astronomers. And the Vatican
is concerned about it. Anyhow, Adriano sent me an article, BD: For the ETs and the Anunnaki. Yes.
including two photographs that have been taken of Nibiru --
already! -- taken by, primarily, I think, this observatory in Chili.
KC: Pine Gap.
But they’ve taken pictures at an observatory in New Zealand, as
well. So, it’s close enough now that optical telescopes have BD: And they’re dealing with human beings, they need rest and
pictures of it and they’re studying it carefully to try to relaxation! [Kerry laughs] But, anyhow, the rumor is that Pine
determine... what is it they call it... the celestial mechanics of Gap is primarily an R&R facility.
how everything moves.
KC: Have you been there?
Well, if our remote viewers are correct and the ETs have given us
some run-down on it, it’s going to be a difficult passing. Because BD: I’ve been to Australia. I haven’t been to Pine Gap, no.
we and it are going to be on the same side of the sun at the same [smiles]
time. And that means all hell’s going to break loose.
KC: Would you lie to me?
Now, they have the technology. We’re talking about not only
Anunnaki. There are intelligences out there that began a billion BD: Sometimes, maybe, but not right now, no.
years ago. And they have technology that puts them in a category
of what Kaku would call a Type III Civilization.
KC: OK.
KC: Mm hm.
BD: No, I haven’t been to Pine Gap.
BD: So, a Type III Civilization has the technology to ameliorate
or mitigate the passing of Nibiru. Now, whether they do that, as A lot of my work has been a result of analyzing and sifting and
you say, put a protective shield around it... evaluating the work of others. That’s what an intelligence analyst
does, takes data from a variety of sources.
Nibiru has done that for itself. They have a protective shield
around their planet which is why in the photographs it comes out But I have some information that I have been provided from
as kind of reddish-gold. And apparently that’s why they came sources within the U.S. government that tell me that, yes, they are
here for the gold in the first place. Because they were losing their deeply concerned about it. And, they’re worried sick about it.
atmosphere and they needed to seed gold particles in their And they don’t know what to do about it, because we don’t have
atmosphere to keep the atmosphere from... You know, they go on the power to do a damn thing about it!
a long trip out there.
BR: Is the estimated date, as best you are given time to
KC: OK, but the Anunnaki are here, you’re saying. And yet, the understand by your sources, in the next few years, rather than
Anunnaki are supposedly on Nibiru as well. Or, what are you Sitchin’s estimate of 2060?
thinking? Or, what’s your sources telling you about this?
BD: Well, let me tell you something about... You talking about
BD: The civilization, the Anunnaki civilization, is on the planet, 2012?
but the Anunnaki are on this planet as well, all over the damn
place... under the sea. The facilities that we know about... inside BR: I’m talking... well, there are some serious Planet X
Mount Hayes in Alaska, inside Mount Perdido in the Pyrenees. researchers who say that we’ll see the thing next year, and things
There’s one right in the middle of Australia which is near... what, could be starting...
Alice Springs. And what’s the facility out there?
BD: I think you may see it next year, but I don’t think you’re
BR: Pine Gap. going to have all hell breaking loose until maybe about 2020.
You’re going to have a build-up of factors. It’s not going to
BD: Pine Gap! Yes. Thank you, my friend. Pine Gap. happen all of a sudden, just like that. [snaps fingers] You’re not
going to go out the front door and all hell’s breaking loose.
BR: Are you referring to...
You’re going to see a series of events taking place involving our
geologic structures. You’re going to have increased volcanic
BD: And that happens to be the R&R facility, according to the activity. You’re going to have increased sun spot activity. We’re
remote viewers. at a low right now!
KC: What’s R&R? I’m sorry... KC: Mm hm.
BD: Rest and relaxation. [Kerry laughs] It’s what we used to call BD: But you are going to see tremendous sun spot activity.
it in the military when we... You’re going see tremendous geologic activity. The Ring of Fire
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will probably erupt. Now, these are all going to be clues that all BD: No, I talked to the guys who built some of them. I also took
hell is coming, you know. a bus ride over the pass from Camp Mercury, which is the atomic
test facility there, over the pass. I went into Site 51, Groom Lake,
You’re going to have storms. The cyclones have been getting from the rear. And it was no big thing, just a tremendous facility
worse, and the hurricanes have been getting worse. You’ll begin there. Most of it was underground. And the hangars...
having hurricanes showing up in places that they really haven’t
troubled us for a long, long time. KC: So. OK. First they reacted to the Soviet threat and all that,
and the nuclear...
So, you’re going to have a build-up. Not slowly, but a consistent
build-up of geological and weather and sun spot activities. And BD: It’ll build up slowly, and it’s already subtly begun. And they
you’re probably going... The estimate that I’ve heard from people don’t want to talk about it. No one wants to share it. I mean, look,
who have studied it, is about 2020. for God’s sake, at the lid they’ve kept on the reality of ET
activity on the Moon and Mars!
KC: OK, but we have heard that Sitchin, as well-meaning as he
may be, is working for the government. And my understanding KC: Mm hm.
would be, is they don’t want this information out. So they’re
doing everything in their power to make sure that it’s ridiculed, BD: With the ridicule factor, and the lid coming down... I think
as we’ve observed. Robert Harrington did lose his life because he said too much. He
says: Oh, it seems to be a rather nice planet, and we know about
BD: Kerry, what could the government, or anyone else, tell you? it, and all we need to do is name it. And, then, bless his heart...
What could they say to you? Would they tell you that... Grab You know, he’d never had a heart problem, but within a year he
your hat, dig a hole, hang on? Would anything they say.... was dead with a heart attack.
KC: Well, is that what the underground bases is all about? You know, when Ike met that crowd at Muroc, which is now
Edwards...
BD: Well, I have always had the conviction -- and I’ve put this
together over the years -- that the so-called elite, the crème de la KC: Right.
crème (they’re self-designated, you know), they have been
preparing for chaos for years! BD: ...in ’54, he met the Anunnaki.
It initially was initiated by the thermonuclear threat with the KC: Mm.
Soviets -- underground, you know, fall-out shelters where we
could go. We have our own air-conditioning. We can have our
own food supplies and our own water supplies. BD: Poor Ike, not long after that, had a heart attack. It was more
than he was able to deal with. The shock of that reality took a toll
on him.
That was a program that began that I worked very closely with
when I was with FEMA over the years. I’ve been in underground
facilities you wouldn’t believe! KC: Mm.
KC: Mm hm. BD: And that’s one of the reasons why the Brookings Report
reached the conclusion it did! You can’t tell those poor folks out
there all this. They couldn’t handle it! Well, B.S. They can
BD: And there are facilities everywhere that are not known. I handle it! Damn... Human beings can handle anything.
mean, there’s a big facility right under Fort Wachuga here in
Arizona. I mean a massive one! That will never come out. I’m
telling it now, but, you know... There’s a deep, deep, massive KC: [laughs] I have to agree with you.
underground facility under Fort Wachuga. They’re all over the
place. BD: I mean, we’ve gone through hell over the centuries.
And I went to a Department of Energy school at Camp Mercury KC: Absolutely.

in Nevada. That was the first time I visited Site 51. I may have
shared that with you. BD: We can handle Attila the Hun and Adolf Hitler, we can
handle anything. We’ve been designed to handle anything. We
KC: Mm hm. haven’t been designed to live very long, but then again, there’s
another story there.
BD: Anyhow, I went to school in, oh, ’79, a Department of
Energy school on radioactive emergency disaster response, KC: Right.
anyhow.
BD: Where did you think that this tremendous outpouring of
KC: So, you went into the underground base at 51? knowledge on the double helix, our RNA, our DNA, and all of
that, has been coming forth? Is there some connection with the
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fact that maybe we now have a relationship with the guys who BD: We’ve got objects... I have photographs taken by Apollo 13
originally designed us in the first place? of alien ships five miles long, and I’m showing those over at San
Jose.
KC: Sure.
KC: Wonderful.
BD: Of course we have. We’re now in the process of redesigning
and engineering our own DNA. And we’re being told how. We’re BD: And those were taken by our own astronauts. Now, you get
being shown how. And thank God they’re sharing it with us now, the guys on Apollo 13 -- and they’re all, from what I understand,
because the first time poor old Adama and Ewa wanted the all three still alive -- and you won’t get a one of ’em to admit
knowledge, they threw ’em out of the Garden, as it were, you who snapped the shutter on that camera. But the film is there and
know? the negative number is there. The roll number is there. And, there
it is -- a NASA photograph of a five-mile-long artificial space
And that’s another thing I want to talk about briefly in passing... ship! Now... And that’s only... That’s small.
is that there’s no such thing as original sin. And that’s a crock of
manure that’s been forced down your throats for thousands of KC: Well, let’s talk about the astronauts for a minute, because...
years. There is no such thing as original sin. The human race What’s going on with Clark McClelland? And why is he having
never fell. It was pushed! [Kerry laughs] such a problem coming forward?
And this species that you and I are a part of, this beautiful, BD: I didn’t know Clark was having a problem.
wonderful, hopefully incredible race of humans does have a
future. And it is in the stars. And we are going out there to KC: He has a book that he’s trying to write. He’s penniless. He’s
reclaim our rightful place, where we should have been in the first had a terrible time. They don’t want him to talk.
place.
BD: No. They probably don’t.
KC: OK. And this gets into the Secret Space Program and
terraforming, because there is some terraforming going on,
preparing for what might happen if Nibiru comes through, and if KC: OK. And, have you met... You know, have you talked to the
the Earth is in such a state... We’re talking about terraforming astronauts? What about Edgar Mitchell? Have you talked to
Mars, maybe beyond. Have you heard things about this? Edgar Mitchell?
BD: Yes, terraforming is a fine art. It’s been going on for BD: I... I talked, before he died, with Gordon Cooper. I was on
millions of years. The Earth itself was terraformed. the phone a few times with Cooper. He even sent me an
autographed photograph of himself. I admired him because he
was one of the mavericks that had the courage to come out and
KC: Right. say what he had seen.
BD: You know, it was prepared. The Garden was prepared for I’ve known Ed Mitchell for some years. Every time I get a
life. And then life was introduced and has been nurtured since, chance to see him, I chat with him, and I consider him a
from the very beginning. Terraforming is a fine art, and some of delightful man. He’s very warm and terribly bright.
those guys out there who’ve been around a billion years are
pretty good at it!
KC: Are they mind-controlled?
So, you see, I don’t know whether they’re planning to re-
terraform us after Nibiru passes. Or whether they are going to try BD: To some degree.
to help alleviate the damage in the meantime? I would suspect the
latter. KC: Have their minds been wiped?
Maybe they are planning, through their engineering genius... and, BD: Cooper... Cooper never was.
my god, the fact is... You know, they’ve got artificially
constructed objects in space in the rings of Saturn that are over KC: OK.
2,000 miles long! Space ships 2,000 miles long! I have pictures.
I’ll share them next week.
BD: They never got to Gordon. And I don’t think they got to
Neil Armstrong either. But, all of the rest of them, to some level,
KC: OK. What about John Walson? Are you familiar with his have been kind of ... what’s the word I’m looking for here?
pictures of the craft around the sun? [sighs] They have been conditioned not to speak. And in some
cases, they may have been hypnotically effected to not
BD: I’ve heard of it, but I haven’t seen them. remember.
KC: All right. Just wondering. In Dark Mission, Hoagland says -- and the evidence is pretty
clear -- that they hypnotically... Debriefed is what they called it.
But, supposedly, they were hypnotized to help them enhance
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their memory, to recall. Apparently some of them had been You may quote me. They’ve been guilty of criminal activity for
hypnotically advised not to remember certain things. years to not discuss the reality of what they knew on the Moon.
As much as I admire Ed Mitchell and respect him -- a There are major facilities and major activities going on on the
tremendous, wonderful guy -- he has admitted publicly in front of Moon all the time. Not only that, the Moon has water. Now,
other people that his time on the Moon, walking on the Moon, whether it’s a natural process from the satellite, or whether it’s
was kind of vague. He can’t... He can’t recall everything. And, of water that’s been stored there for use, there are vaporous signs of
course, that’s sad. a form of an atmosphere in the bottom of some of the craters.
I don’t think they ever got to Neil Armstrong because when he Now, astronomers have seen these pictures, but that dishonest
got back he left the program, said: To hell with it, I’m out of here. bunch of nitwits won’t discuss it. They’re scared because... You
He went back to Cincinnati and started teaching math at the know why? Ninety percent of their income comes from
university there. And Armstrong hasn’t said five words publicly government grants. And when you’ve got a government grant and
since. that’s your prime source of income, you’re going to say whatever
the government says you should say. Or don’t say whatever the
KC: Uh huh. government doesn’t want said.
BD: And then you have the case of Aldrin. Now, Aldrin has had Well, anyhow, there is some atmosphere on the Moon, at least in
experiences where he has been with friends and the subject would the base of several of the larger craters. There is water on the
come up. And Buzz would start to cry or he would get nauseated. Moon. But there is major activity going on! I mean, we’re talking
about engineering activity.
One time -- and Hoagland touches upon this, I think, in Chapter
Ten in the book -- where Aldrin was in conversation with a few There are giant ships that come and go out of the craters. There
people and with his wife, having a few drinks and it was just are lights all the time. They have noticed bridges appearing and
relaxed. And somebody asked him a blunt, straight-to-the-point then disappearing. I mean, they’re active as hell on the Moon!
question, and he had to run out and throw up. He got sick!
KC: What about...
Now, this, to me, is the result... and I’ve studied it enough over
the years to know that it sounds to me like hypnotic suggestion. BD: But the same activity is going on on Mars! You’ve seen my
photograph, I guess... It’s not only my photograph. But there’s a
KC: Mm hm. city the size of Chicago underground on Mars that’s generating
so much heat it shows up in infrared photographs.
BD: He has been hypnotically conditioned not to remember, or
to not even discuss it. He gets nauseated. And in one instance KC: Are you in touch with John Lear?
with a bunch of friends, old Fly Boy types, he ended up starting
to cry. Now, this breaks my heart because Aldrin is a good man. BD: I’ve met John. I’ve been at his house a time or two. I’ve
He was one of our better men to be selected for that program. visited him. I have a tremendous respect for him. The reason I
like John is, he’s been nailed, as I have, as a damn fool maverick,
KC: Um hm. you know?
BD: You know... You know the story, and this is common KC: I mean, this is his pet, you know, project.
knowledge. They got back from Apollo 11. They put Aldrin in a
sanitarium for about six weeks. He had... suffering from BD: The establishment has tried to ridicule John Lear, and you
alcoholism. Do you believe that? [Kerry laughs] can’t ridicule John Lear because he’s got sources, similar to some
of my own, that are beyond question. He’s getting people inside
Do you believe one of our best and bravest, one of the finest in feeding him information almost on a regular basis. [Kerry laughs]
the Apollo Program suffered from alcoholism? Nonsense! I get mine in bits and pieces when I go to conferences and when I
meet people, you know. But John gets it direct.
You know... Apparently, it was the programming, to be
reinforced. Now why would a grown man with his background KC: OK. I have a question for you about Arlington Institute and
break down and cry like a baby or end up getting nauseous and what’s happening and might be happening in October, because
barf on this subject? That’s hypnotic, post-hypnotic stress. we have a lot of information coming out about October and about
something that may be planned. I don’t know if you’ve heard
some of this stuff.
KC: So what is it on the Moon that is, you know, that is so
important that they want to completely whitewash it out of those
men’s minds? We have... Our top secret witnesses are coming out and saying,
you know, that the economy is being engineered to crash here in
the U.S, that...
BD: Oh, my god! The astronomical societies, the professional
astronomers in this country, have been guilty of criminal activity!
BD: Oh, this whole thing has been engineered.
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KC: All right. KC: Right.
BD: It’s been diddled. You know, this is a joke. And the poor BD: And, he went in... The Russians could not have ignored
guy out there, the poor working man on the street, as it were, is him, for god’s sake! He invaded one of their little... well...
being screwed royally! But, you know, this whole thing... Kerry,
I would almost come to a point that 90% of what you call reality - KC: So, what’s the purpose behind it, though? We know what
- our threats with the Russians, the Georgia invasion, the stock happened, but why?
market collapse -- all of this is all engineered.
BD: I think... What could the purpose be other than to distract
KC: So tell us about it. So tell us about Georgia because... OK, peoples’ attention from this over here to this over here? While
to get back to... I know you know the guy who’s head of, or was our economy was falling around your knees, we’re all paying
head of, the Arlington Institute. They are sending out a newsletter attention to the Russians invading poor little Georgia!
saying... inviting people to tell them what dreams and visions
they’re having about October, because October has become such
a hot month. Well, the Russians didn’t invade poor little Georgia. They went
out and whacked the President of Georgia’s little pee-pee, as it
were. [slaps his hand together]. Stop that! And they pulled back,
In tracking, there is something called Half Past Human. Have you know.
you heard of them?
KC: Right.
BD: In passing.
BD: You know how a magician works? He gets you in front of,
KC: They’re doing, you know... They do language. They track you know... and he’s doing this with this hand while he’s picking
with web bots all over the internet, basically tracking where your pocket with this one.
language is going. They’ve been doing it since ’98 with
computers and so on. And they were able to chart, like before
911, this huge raise in consciousness that some event was KC: That’s right.
imminent. What they’re getting for October is the same thing,
only something even more long-range in its effect. BD: And that’s what the government is doing. And when I say
government, it’s not the government you think you’ve got. It’s
BD: Well, I have a tremendous respect for John Peterson. He’s a not the, you know... God, that’s all a façade in itself! The
brilliant guy. government we’ve got is probably being totally run by the
Anunnaki, because there is a power beyond power [points
upward] that’s pulling the strings.
KC: All right.
KC: Right.
BD: I’ve known him for some years.
BD: They call them the Illuminati, but there are guys above the
KC: So, Arlington Institute is suddenly asking for peoples’ Illuminati that are really in power.
dreams and visions about October. Why?
KC: OK. But we’re told the Vatican is behind a lot of it, and
BD: Marcia... Marcia is more in touch with John now than I am. that... In other words, the Vatican is behind what’s going on in
She’s a computer person, you understand. I won’t touch the damn the U.S., that there’s a plan. And you’ve got the Anunnaki. This
thing! is not a positive plan, OK? To take down the U.S.
KC: I understand. BD: Well, they think it is.
BD: Because, as I told you earlier, I enjoy my privacy. And if KC: Do you think it is?
you’re on the world wide web, you don’t have any privacy.
BD: Their ultimate idea is, yes, a positive idea.
KC: OK, I agree with you there, so... OK. But you know him.
And I’m just basically... You’re saying this thing is engineered.
So what happened in Georgia? What do you know about it? KC: OK, what is it?
BD: Oh, it was all engineered. BD: A one-world government.
KC: OK, so the Russians, you know, were tipped off. KC: Oh, all right.
BD: The President of Georgia did what he did just to lure the BD: Of course that’s what they want.
Russians in.
KC: Right.
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BD: And they’re going to have it, eventually. And, our banking system, the insurance programs, all of that...
stock market, Wall Street. Those guys were absolutely rotten.
KC: Absolutely. Now, you can have a positive one-world
government. Right? KC: The housing industry?
BD: But the growing pains... The growing pains that we go BD: The housing industry! That was bound to fail! You talk
through before we get there... It’s going to be pretty horrendous. about a bubble! It was bound to fail. It had to fail. Well, I’m glad
Not only are we going to have to put up with this crap with it failed. Hope to hell that they learned something from it. Now...
Nibiru, which is a real thing...
KC: OK, but we’re talking... Are we talking about martial law in
But this growing process that we’re going through to end up the United States? I mean, what are we talking here?
eventually with a one-world government is going to be painful as
hell! And there’s going to be a lot of blood on the streets before BD: You’re talking about a time when you may have martial
it’s over with. Sadly enough, that’s, in my opinion, a fact. And law. It’s only one step away. You know that the authority has
that’s being manipulated [points upward] from a very high level. been given to the president to declare it.
KC: OK, but we have “white hats” in the U.S. government that KC: Right.
are actually trying to prevent this. Are they not?
BD: Congress gave that authority to the president years ago. I’ve
BD: We have some good men and good women who are well even lost track of how long it’s been. But, anyhow, all the
aware of what’s taking place and what’s transpiring. And they’re president has to do, whoever he may be... and that doesn’t matter
trying to modify, ameliorate... Is that the right word? To make much anymore either, because one nitwit is very much like the
this growth pain as painless as possible. They’re trying to not other. You have a “national emergency,” and it’s declared.
have as much blood as it might take.
KC: Right.
Growth from adolescence as a species and as a society is
somewhat like the painful growth of an adolescent kid 13 years
old who’s trying to grow up. Do you remember when you went BD: Boom. Martial law! You declare a national emergency
through that? which has not been declared yet.
KC: Sure. KC: Right.
BD: It was not fun time. BD: But we’re right on the edge of it.
KC: Absolutely. So... OK, but let’s get down to the nuts and KC: Right.
bolts. The stock market is crashing. You need to invest in gold
and silver if you want to stay alive. BD: And you’re going to have martial law.
BD: The stock market was rotten to its core. KC: OK, so we don’t have an election. Right?
KC: Absolutely. But, are you telling people to leave, to go to BD: Well, that’s... You’re thinking about an October surprise?
South America?
KC: I have no idea. I’m asking you.
BD: No.
BD: Well, I don’t know about that. I’m not sure it’ll happen in
KC: What’s your advice? October. I suspect it may occur within the next year. But I don’t
know...
BD: I’m telling people that you’re in for some difficult times,
and I say this in my presentations. I jokingly look at them and I haven’t had any dreams. My dreams have been pretty
say: You are all doomed. There’s not a one of you that’s going to fascinating recently. But none of them have been terribly
be around a hundred years from now. You’re doomed! So, the troubling. And I know this is all happening. It’s going to take
hell with it. Enjoy the ride! [Kerry laughs] place. It’s inevitable. It’s been orchestrated.
No, I tell people who are interested in listening to whatever it is I The Illuminati do exist. They are in power. They’ve been in
have to say, that you’re in for some difficult times. It’s going to power for years. They’ve been demonstrating that power ever
happen. There is no way to avoid it. We cannot go on as we were, since 1913 when they created the... What the hell is the banking
because some of our systems were rotten to the core. system?
KC: Federal Reserve.
160
BD: Federal Reserve, yes, which is a private corporation. We BD: Probably.

lost most of it in ’47. I don’t know whether you were aware of
that, but that was a big year. National security became KC: So, we’re looking at 2013 by our calendar.
everything. It became a member of the triad.
BD: Well, no later than 2017 [smiles]. I’ll throw 2017 out.
In ’47 we declared... We made the National Security Agency. We
formed a pact with the Brits, the Australians, the Canadians, and
New Zealand, the ACUSA Pact, which most people don’t even KC: OK.
know exists. The ACUSA crowd, all of us, Britain, the U.S.,
Canada, New Zealand, Australia, are all like this [clenches hands BD: And you can take that to the bank. [laughter] 2017. Now
together]. Whoever is in the White House and whoever is at that...
Buckingham Palace... it don’t matter.
KC: OK.
KC: All right.
BD: That’ll give or take a year or two because the celestial
BD: The power behind the scenes has been running this damn mechanics... They haven’t really worked it all out yet. We’ve got
thing since 1947, and Ike saw it. It scared the hell out of him. He computers you wouldn’t believe but they’re still trying to feed in
met the Anunnaki. That scared the hell out of him. So they’re some of the data.
pulling our strings now, like they always have.
KC: So, are you... Is one of the remote viewers you’re in touch
KC: OK, so what’s your solution? What would you tell people? I with Ingo Swann?
mean, in facing the future, in trying to reinvent the future.
Certainly Marcia is working with people to... to become BD: I haven’t been in touch with Ingo for some time, but I...
enlightened, to apply... Kerry, I’ve been doing some remote viewing.
BD: She’s doing a tremendous amount of work to help people KC: Right.
trans... make this transition. Kerry, we’re not just going through a
transition. We’re going through a transcendent transformation,
literally... a transcendent transformation. BD: I’ve even had a couple of out-of-body experiences.
We’re going to come out of this thing, when it’s over with, a KC: Mm hm.
totally different species. We’re not going to be the same people
we were in the past. And that’s good! And it’s going to hurt. And BD: I’ve been doing a lot of meditating. When you go in... When
it’s going to be painful. you step into that world, there is no time, and you can talk to
anybody, everywhere, all at once. Now, that sounds silly to
And I tell people... and I’ve said this repeatedly: Don’t get too anyone who doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say.
uptight about it. You’ve been through hell before. You’re going
through a bit of it again. But once it’s over, once you’ve made When you step into that realm of timelessness, and you remote
that transition, we’re going to have, hopefully, a new world, a view, and you step out of your body, and you go into altered
new future, a new beginning. states, and you meditate, you’re in a timeless, infinite reality that
people communicate... You’d be shocked and amazed at the
And I think that’s the end of the Great Year that we’re going wealth of information that’s out there just to tap into. The old
through. We’re going through the end of a 26,000-year cycle. ones used to talk about the Akashic Records.
I tell you, 2012... phhhft, don’t matter! First of all, Christ was KC: Mm hm.
born seven years before. And this is a fact. And if you don’t
believe me, get Sir Lawrence Gardner, who is probably one of BD: It’s real. It’s real! And it isn’t just about the past because,
the best historians we’ve got working today. Lawrence Gardner’s Kerry, there is no past, nor is there a future. There’s only an
got the facts. Jesus was born in 7 BC, on the first of March. eternal Now. And a physicist sitting here in this room would say,
Balderdash! Because they wouldn’t grasp for a minute what I’m
Now, if you want to count from his birth, like we supposedly trying to talk about. But old Ingo would.
have been doing, add seven years to 2008. You end up with 2015.
That’s pretty close to 20... KC: Yes. Absolutely. Well, I’ve been some of those places
myself, that you’re talking about.
KC: Oh, so you’re saying we are actually in the year 2015 now.
BD: I knew it! You see...
BD: We’re in the year 2015 right now.
KC: [laughing] And so I have to say you’re absolutely right, and
KC: Right. So that means that Nibiru... When you say it’s it’s an incredible pleasure for us to hear this from yourself.
coming in 2020, it’s actually due in about five years.
161
And I... You know, I would like to, at this time, just open the Hell! I have memories of Sumer. I knew the Anunnaki back then,
floor and say is there anything that we haven’t covered here that worked with them. I was one of their products. I know them now.
you would like to talk about? And, then, of course, we would also And I don’t have any fear.
like to invite Bill to ask you some questions.
And, in bringing this to a close, I would like to say to whoever is
BD: We’ve danced around on a whole bunch of things for the watching: Get rid of the fear. You have nothing to fear. You are
last hour. I enjoy it. I enjoy chatting with you two guys. You’re an immortal, timeless being who has an infinite future in a
pleasant people. glorious universe that’s so filled with beauty and light that we on
this little tiny planet couldn’t begin to grasp. [clenches fists]
As I say, I’m an old codger, and if you plug me in and turn me
loose, there’s no telling where I may end up. I’ve been around 79 But I say to people, Don’t be afraid, for god’s sake! Gather
years this trip. I’ve made a dozen or two previous trips which, around you those you love. Spread that love around and go into
amazingly, I remember quite a bit about. tomorrow with courage because you’ve been through a hell of a
lot worse before.
When you start going into that timeless realm, you step into that
infinite which we’re all part of, memories of other lives come So, be hopeful. Love one another. And have courage. And that’s
flooding into you sometimes. Oh, god! The things I’ve seen, the really all I have to say.
things I’ve done, the places I’ve been... this life... are kind of
shocking. The things I’ve done, the places I’ve been, the lives KC: Well, thank you, Bob Dean. It’s really an honor and a
I’ve lived before are beyond belief. pleasure.
I... I’m not boasting. This is not a boast. But I’m an old soul. I’ve BD: Thank you, Kerry Cassidy. I enjoyed every minute of it.
been around on this planet a long time. And, I, amazingly,
remember. Some of the memories I would rather not remember
because they’re painful.
162
Project Camelot:
Dr. Bill Deagle - Interview Transcript
Prognosis for Planet Earth
Vista, California, September 2008
BR: This is Project Camelot and my name is Bill Ryan with my

partner Kerry Cassidy. And we’re book-ending here right
between us. We’ve got Dr. Bill Deagle, and it’s a tremendous
privilege to be with you.
BD: Thank you very much.
BR: I just joked to Dr. Bill just now that I’m claiming the
Guinness record for having listened to The Granada Forum
Lecture all the way through seven times, which I had to do
because there’s so much data in there.
And not only that, in a phone call just a few days ago, Dr. Bill
told us that he probably only presented about 10% of the
information which he had to offer. And one of the things which
we hope to do in the next couple of hours is to see whether we
The greatest sins are the sins of silence in the face of evil. can get on record as much of the remaining 90% as possible.
Dr Bill Deagle
BD: [laughs]
Few in the UFO/ Conspiracy/ Disclosure movement are as
controversial as Dr Bill Deagle. Outspoken, brilliant and
passionate, he has generated as many critics as he has made BR: And in particular, many of the people viewing this video
committed friends. now, and the two of us, Kerry, and myself in particular, are really
interested and focused on what is going to be happening in the
immediate few weeks and months.
We're well aware of this controversy. This three hour video is
essential viewing - we suggest - for anyone who has criticised
this man. We stand behind his testimony: inasmuch as there's And I think one of the phrases that Bill used was “the calm
nothing we know which contradicts anything he has said. On the before the storm.” What’s the storm?
other hand, the more we learn, the more we find we're able to
validate the whistleblower testimony that Bill Deagle reports. BD: Well, the best way to think is the Emory War College. And
if you talk to people that work in the Marine-Army War College
The interview presents a different side to Bill Deagle. We engage and other places, what they do is, they war-game it out. They
him in conversation (and hold our own!) and we believe we have have people that sit around big boardroom tables, and then what
succeeded in bringing out the human being, the warm and caring they do is, they put it into simulation computers.
side to him, that aspect of someone who in his passion for the
truth, and for the potential splendor and magnificence of the They use Simula PL/1 and other languages that were actually
human race, has sometimes spoken in terms so strong that some developed for the military, and then they put it on their own
have found him hard to hear. super-computers and then they run through a number of
simulations. So every war, every conflict, every national
He is a Prophet of modern times: but many misunderstand that emergency, has already been scenarioed out.
term. A Prophet is not a seer or a fortune teller. A Prophet - in the
original meaning of the word, and the way Bill Deagle uses it - is People don’t realize just how much computing power has been
someone who says: "This is what's likely to occur if we don't put into these things -- for everything from ET invasions, to a
wake up or shape up." In that mission, Camelot shares and tsunami hitting the west coast, to Cumbre Viejo [Ed. Note: an
supports his stand. island in the Caribbean that could collapse and cause a tsunami
on the East coast of the US], to a civil disruption because of an
Start of interview earthquake in the New Madrid fault in the Midwest. So basically
everything’s been simulated. There’s a number of items.
Bill Ryan (BR): You know what? I’d just like to say I’m really,
really glad to have met you personally. Now, what I often try to do on my radio show, which is the
Nutrimedical Report; it’s on Genesis Network. And the two
web sites, if you want to check it out, is nutrimedical.com, where
Bill Deagle (BD): Yeah. Well, same here. [laughs]
163
I have a lot of the anti-aging, life extension, civil defense, and So the idea is that eventually you’ll get enough evidence and
other information. enough logical things that… You have what I call “the two
witnesses”. It has to not assault your intellect (the information),
And the other website is clayandiron.com. The network is and it also has to ring with your spirit.
Genesis Network. It’s out of St. Paul, Minnesota. And their
website for getting podcasts, streaming and on-demand, which BR: Good. But, you know, a lot of people watching this now
replays the shows, is gcnlive.com. have already done that homework…
What I try to do on my show is… I realize that one of the things BD: Right.
about having a regular radio show is you can bring in all of these
experts and guests, but there are several ways of approaching it. BR: …either by listening to your shows or listening to ours,
My approach has been to try… if they listen to enough shows, because we’ve been operating in essentially the same way.
that people will start to see a montage of images that’ll change
their paradigm.
BD: Right.
Because you can’t change people by necessarily beating them
over the head with the facts if they emotionally aren’t ready for BR: Or both.
that.
BD: Right.
BR: Yes.
BR: And there’s also… Would you agree that there’s not a lot of
BD: And you also have to change their paradigm by what I call time now?
the “little grades” that happen as they listen to more and more
people, and they are willing to accept one message from one type BD: No, there’s not a lot of time. And there’s a number of what I
of person, or one way of doing it, or a little humor, or some call “spasms of events” that’re going to happen. And to just give
music. you the timeline of where things are going rather than giving you
specific dates…
BR: Yes.
The first thing is that people need to understand, whether we elect
BD: And eventually they get to the point where they’re able to McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden, or the Green Party with
then accept the intellectual truths, the spiritual truths, and so on. McKinney, the events are already in motion to create a regional
and world economic catastrophe and then to create regional and
world banks.
The two key things that I try to teach on my show are: The first
thing is that people don’t know what they are. People really don’t
know what kind of a being they are, and because of that -- which BR: So they’ve already got the script for the movie, but they
is in many cases kept purposely away from them – they’re haven’t got the cast yet.
manipulated. For example, if you didn’t know you were a bird,
you’d obviously not try to fly. Right? BD: Right. They’ve gone to central casting, and whoever the
players are, they’re in a sense going to be like riders on the wave
BR: Yep. Good analogy. of this.
BD: The other thing I try to teach them is that everything that BR: OK. So what’s the script? [laughs]
they have learned in the past has been predigested and presented
to them so they really don’t understand the nature of the universe BD: Well, the script basically is that… And I’ll back up a little
they live in. They don’t even know what “reality” is. bit, so that…
BR: Yeah. And all this is one of the parameters in the model, BR: Yeah. And also a few minutes ago you mentioned modeling.
presumably, that people are interacting with this “stage show”… It would be great to tie this back into the modeling scenario that
you mentioned.
BD: Right.
BD: Right. They’ve done lots of modeling. In fact they have one
BR: …with a very limited amount of information at their of the most advanced programs at the University of California in
disposal with which to react, to make appropriate judgments. San Francisco. And they’re tied directly into the National
Reconnaissance Office.
BD: Right. So what I try to do is, I try to stretch them beyond
that. One of the things that I try to do is… There’s no such thing This, by the way, I do regularly on my show -- release classified
as a “sacred cow,” whether it’s a political view, a religious view, information. And there they have all this access to the Cray 5s
a scientific view. It has to be, you know, “trust but verify”. You and Cray 4 super-computer arrays, and so they will do
know, Ronald Reagan, before he had too many aspartame jelly simulations.
beans. [laughs]
164
Kerry Cassidy (KC): And that’s located in Denver, right? BR: Yep.
BD: Well, that’s where the main node is. It’s actually Shriver Air KC: Right. But how do they choose? Do you know that?
Force Base. But they also have their systems elsewhere. And
people need to know that the world that they believe in is a BD: Yeah.
fairytale that never existed. Right?
BR: An entire virtual world, with virtual people.
BR: Right.
BD: In a virtual world. I actually took care of employees
BD: So anyway, this is at university level. They have a social working on what’s called the Sentient World Project in Denver.
modeling super-computer program. And what they do is, they try
different perturbations. They’ll try a little thing, put a balloon up,
put a media event. And they’re able to model that based on KC: Yes. But I still don’t understand, you know, how they’re
getting information back. choosing their scenario. In other words, we know that the
financial collapse…
They’re able to do specific searches, which are called
“architectural searches,” not all that different from the Half Past BD: Well, they can try a scenario and they can actually try it in
Human or the Princeton University kind of “eggs” thing. the cyber-world and then they can see the response based on…
They’re actually mining the Internet; they’re mining phone KC: Right. But have you gotten feedback from say, secret deep
conversations. They’re mining data from peoples’ cable boxes, black projects, saying, you know, they have chosen this scenario?
which they’ve cut two ways so they can know what they’re
watching. And they have what’s called “data architecture” BD: Ah, some things. Some things. Yeah.
software that can actually analyze it.
BR: Give us some clues, Bill.
BR: Yep.
BD: Well, I’ll give you an example. One of the first things is, by
KC: [Inaudible] doing this modeling, it means that they don’t do it in just a kind
of… In other words, they’re not just trying it on the public. They
BD:. . . .ah, that’s a possibility, that they can do that. But the try a different thing.
most important is they just know what they’re viewing. And if
they know what they’re viewing, what the box is turned on to, For example, they had the Countrywide financial collapse earlier
they can actually put this back into their data. And they can then this year, and then they had the collapse of Lehman Brothers.
say, based on area code distribution, demographics, etc… And they try each thing. And they try to see what kind of
response they’re getting from the public. And they feed that back
BR: Yep. into the model.
BD: Because people need to know that every phone Now, when I took care of the people that were working on the
conversation always was monitored. Every fax always was Sentient World Project, they actually created a cybernetic model
monitored. And they have had super-computers. of the Earth. It’s an actual physical model in hyperspace that is
down to a tolerance of about a centimeter-and-a-half. All the
roadways, buildings, everything, people. Everybody inside that
And in 2003 they launched what’s called the AI system, which is model are actually considered, called, nodes. That’s their actual
an intelligent super-computer with the Intelligence of a human term they use for it.
being -- in other words, a smart human being but able to think 10
trillion times faster, with the access to all known knowledge and
history and a complete access to the Internet and all the BR: Yep.
communications pathways. So…
BD: Besides doing the simulator computer modeling, they’re
KC: With that in mind, the modeling they are making… Their using other technologies. Some of them are quite alien, if you
plan, their agenda, is going to be played out as what? The biggest want to call it.
surprise they can think of?
BR: I can believe it.
BD: Well, no. What they are do is build a cybernetic copy of the
Earth. BD: And they’re using these technologies so they can actually
analyze timeline pathways. Because what they’re trying to do
KC: Right. is…
BD: They can actually do models with that and try to do what’s KC: So we’re talking about Looking-Glass, then?
called “timeline pathway analysis”.
165
BD: Yeah. Exactly. And, of course, a lot of the people don’t BD: Now, we have our version of it. And the Russians have a
understand that most of these are actually based on what’s called new system called a super-capacitor technology, so they were
torsional vortex imaging, which is hyperdimensional imaging. able to make these very, very powerful capacitors that can
generate similar things to our HAARP technology. Right?
BR: Yep.
KC: OK. But where are they going with this? That’s actually
BD: And torsional vortex imaging we’ve had since the 1950s, what we…
reverse-engineered.
BD: Yeah. Well, where they’re going with all this… Just to give
BR: Yep. you an idea: The first thing is, you have to look at the menu of
what they have. And they try various items, try to perturbate on
new computer modeling.
BD: Torsional vortex imaging was the top project of HAARP. It
was not the bottom project; it was the top project.
And then they decide whether they’re going to proceed now or in
the near future. Like, a lot of people say: Well, why hasn’t there
BR: OK. been another 911?
BD: So torsional vortex imaging allows them to look through the BR: Mm hm.
Earth to see all the resources. So the primary thing was to drop a
thermal-magnetic mirror with aluminum and barium salts.
BD: Right? Another… like blowing up cities or doing other
things? Because for years they’ve been doing war-game
BR: Which is the chemtrail project? simulations of a 10-kiloton nuke in a number of cities.
BD: Yeah. But it’s really high, 73- to 80-thousand feet. You For example, this year it was in Portland Harbor, and last year it
won’t see these. was in Charleston Harbor, where they actually did a simulation of
a. . .
BR: OK.
And it was not just the U.S. It was the U.S., British, and
BD: And when the particles are put up there, they last two to Canadians, where they were doing a joint war-games simulation
three years in space because they layer out and they get locked of this, and trying to see the civil defense, and the radiation
into that layer at the upper troposphere. OK? plume, and the movement of the public and, you know, how to
handle the bodies, and all this kind of stuff.
BR: Yep.
So they’re doing all of that. They do this on multiple levels and
BD: And it acts as a mirror for what’s called torsional vortex they feed the data back into their super-computers to decide what
imaging. So they can throw a pulse and see an echo that comes will work best.
back and they can image it.
One of the things that we did… Back in the late 90s, I was a
BR: I got it. Yep. doctor for Rocky Mountain Occupational Medicine, and we got
the contract for the Hazmat teams in Colorado, for the FBI and
the Center for Disease Control to do a war-game simulation
BD: So they can see oil resources, gold, minerals, titanium, called Operation Top Off and Operation Dark Winter.
whatever they need, and they can also see through the Earth and
see underground bases, cities, facilities. So, for example, when
Sichuan… We did a simulation at the Performing Arts Center, on a
“simulated release”, not a real release, of pneumonic plague. And
we wanted to look at the kill ratio, in terms of how quickly the
BR: Some of this stuff that isn’t even ours. system could be activated -- the EMS system -- to be able to get
people and treat them and triage them and whatever.
BD: Right. Yeah. And they can also see stuff that’s not ours.
Exactly. They see giant caves and cavern systems that go And we did a similar one down on 17th Avenue, downtown
hundreds of miles through the Midwest. Denver, in a second-floor window of an apartment. And we even
set up a sprayer to spray out the window, with a little compressed
BR: Right. air, a little vapor stream, which was supposedly anthrax. So, it
would be a weaponized anthrax stream that would actually spray
out that second-floor window. And that anthrax stream would
BD: But they can also see things like military bases, like the
then…
Chinese nuclear and military munitions base that was struck with
a tectonic weapon in Sichuan, west China. That was a specific
use of tectonic technology. Right? We would then have people go… We had the Hazmat officers
and Special Forces, and they would go to various hospitals, like
St. Joe’s, Presbyterian, St. Lukes, etcetera. And we tried to see,
BR: Yep. Mm hm.
with recording all these data intake sheets, whether or not,
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Number One, emergency departments would activate CDC, get BR: OK.
the proper specimens, get the people treated in a timely fashion
so they wouldn’t die. BD: So the thing was to humiliate you to realize there was no
way you could get out of the big maze unless you changed your
We killed everybody. paradigm of how to get out of the maze. Right?
BR: OK. BR: Very good. Right.
KC: Why did you kill everybody, though? BD: And what they’re doing basically is, they’re… In a sense
they’re “sheep dipping” the entire society to kind of buy into the
BD: We killed everybody because the system was too lies of what’s going on. People don’t know what kind of… You
inadequate. The Emergency department doctors, the infectious know, even modern history has completely been rewritten.
disease, the activation of the system… The tracking back to the Everything…
source of the spray would have been too long.
BR: But there is some waking up going on, which you need to
So if there was a lethal weaponized anthrax -- it only needs, let’s also factor in.
say, 80 spores to cause a lethal infection rather than 80,000 to
100,000 – that we figured out from the dispersal at that level on BD: Yes, there is.
the canyon of, say, 17th Avenue, would have killed at least 4- to
5-thousand people that were, during the middle of the day, would BR: It’s also being factored in.
have been exposed.
BD: Sure it is. And that’s why there’s been quite a delay. In fact,
BR: Right. if you look at the published documents, like Global 2000, about
population reduction; if you look at the planned release of things
BD: Now, the reason why I bring up that model is that they’re like avian flu; if you look at the planning on blowing up cities
doing this all the time with their cybernetics models, because with dirty bombs or micro-nukes, or doing other things, they’re
they’re trying to steer society along certain timelines. way behind schedule.
And they have various forces. All the people in this – you hear BR: This also means that they’ve also programmed in the
the word “New World Order” -- they’re not in agreement. And Nutrimedical Report and the Project Camelot interviews. And
there are various levels. And most of ’em think that they’re at the they’re taking all of that into account and then recalculating
top of whatever level they’re at, and they’re really at the bottom everything. Right?
of another level. OK?
BD: Ah, well they are. But the problem is that there’s a number
Even the people at the top that are human. Because the New of wild cards that they're not in control of.
World Order is not being run by humans.
BR: Which are?
BR: Yes.
BD: Well, lots of wild cards.
BD: OK?
BR: OK.
BR: Exactly.
BD: The first one is the human one. Human beings are a
BD: And you need to grasp this. The analogy I use on my show polydimensional being that far transcends what people usually
is… In their training in England, as part of a power game, they’d think of as human.
bring you to their gardens. And their gardener would kind of
make a little maze. And then you’d go through the little maze and Just to give you kind of… To back up in terms of a little physics:
thought you were quite clever because you’d get out in a matter Our plane of existence, the energetic plane, has five dimensions,
of moments. not four. OK?
And then what they’d do is, they’d take you to the big maze, BR: Yep.
which was done by a very clever gardener. And the only way you
could get out was if you were talked out.
BD: Then the spiritual plane has seven dimensions. Some people
call that astral. And then there is the 13th, which is the eternal.
BR: OK. OK? And everything are harmonics of that. That’s why… The
very nature of the existence itself is literally the passage of spirit
BD: OK. If you weren’t talked out, you wouldn’t make it out of through energetic planes that creates a montage.
the maze, and you’d be stuck there the entire afternoon and
wouldn’t have tea or anything. Right?
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BR: We’ll buy all of that. And what we are here, what I see in It’s almost like, if you want to say: It’s a battleship. And they
my field of vision, is the tiny tip of a huge iceberg. say: Well, it’s painted pink. It can’t be a battleship. It’s got plants
coming out of all the turrets. [Bill laughs] Even though it is a
BD: Right. battle ship and it’s in the front yard. [more laughter]
BR: Yeah. And the iceberg is a beautiful, fantastic wonderful KC: What aliens, though, are running the show, in your opinion?
eternal thing.
BD: Well, I’m going to get to that because I’m going to give you
BD: Right. Exactly. In other words, this moment that’s existing a little different spin. What we have to do is use a lot of
right now as we are taping, has always existed. discernment. There’s basically two perspectives in the universe --
and this is whether you’re human or nonhuman.
BR: Yeah. I’ll buy that.
What we are or any other “sentient” being in the universe is a
spirit-being that’s transcending through an energy matrix,
KC: Absolutely. Time is circular. But Bill, what I wanted to creating a reality. OK? In other words, we are co-creators of our
know is, what are you saying they are going to do with this? own timeline and future.
Because obviously if they’re behind schedule… And here we are,
at the end of September, and we’ve got the American economy
going in the tank. BR: Absolutely.
BD: Right. BD: And if you look at people like Michio Kaku and advanced
physicists and so on, they talk about the universe in terms of
energy. You know, like a Zero Energy culture, and the Level One
KC: And so what’s the next step? energy culture, a culture that is able to leap across the galaxy and
is bound by time and space.
BD: Well, here you’ve got to think about what their goal is. It’s
almost like a mouse that reaches certain barriers, a smart mouse. But you can also use those similar principles for, you know --
You put certain barriers down, but a mouse can still smell the similar kinds of characteristics -- for dealing with what I call the
cheese. It’ll get around that barrier and it’ll figure out how to do spirituality of a sentient civilization. Right?
it. And if it’s a very intuitive mouse, it can see beyond the barrier
to where the pathway is to get to the cheese. And if it’s got lots of
access, then it’s going to do that. Right? BR: Right.
BR: Right. BD: So you need to use both the energy thing and they are tied
together.
BD: So what I see is this. Their goal is to have a world bank.
Their goal is to have regionalized currency zones. They published BR: Yep.
it. In fact, one of the things that you have to understand -- which
is really bizarre but also true -- is that part the “religion,” if you BD: Because there’s lot of suppression of the technology that we
want to call it, or the dogma, of the globalists is to prove that they already have, because spiritually we are very… what I call a Zero
are a super class, or the predator class, who have the right to Order culture.
make these decisions.
BR: Yep.
Because they have to publish it, and the profane don’t understand
it. But it’s plainly published. Like for example in September of BD: We’re still in the playpen or the crib of civilization and
1973 the Council of Foreign Relations… we’ve been actually quarantined for 3 shars, which is Zecharia
Sitchen’s “passages through the galactic plane of fire,” it’s called.
BR: It’s all in plain sight.
The two perspectives tie in with either being in touch with that
BD: It’s all in plain sight. Higher Self, which is the “I AM,” the one that says Let there be
light, the spirit that’s in us.
KC: Like the Iron Mountain Report, for example.
And all great spiritual leaders that spoke truth that they knew in
BD: Yeah. Or the 1974 document that talked about the greatest their heart -- whether it was Buddha or Zoroaster or whatever --
danger to the world is population growth. Or the Global 2001. . . all of these great leaders have spoken something. And many
times it’s been converted, or perverted, or twisted.
BR: The Georgia Guidestones.
Or they themselves didn’t have the whole truth, they just had
portions of it, so then it became a “religion.” Now, religion is a
BD: Exactly. It’s all in plain sight. And the problem is that substitute for relationship.
people will look at it and say: Well, it can’t be true because it’s in
plain sight.
BR: Yep.
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BD: And I call it “real lies going on”. And it doesn’t matter if but you went to the wrong part of the city. You might not come
you’re talking about Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, back out alive. OK?
Zoroastrianism, Atheism.
BR: Right
All the “isms” in the world fall into two categories: Either you
hear the Voice of the spirit that created you and created all that BD: And a similar thing… You have to think of the universe that
exists, the continuum -- because without a single voice there is no way, too.
universe -- one “I” voice, I call it. There is no one “I” voice.
BR: Yep.
So, therefore, it’s either your will – the will of, in other words,
deciding for yourself what is good or evil -- or hearing the Voice.
In other words, you don’t need to tell people what’s right or BD: There’s very good places in the universe, and very bad.
wrong. If they’re in contact with their higher self and with the
Creator that created them, they know what’s right or wrong. BR: Yes.
BR: OK. Now, just bring that back to where you were when you BD: OK? Just think of it this way. Any being that’s capable of
were talking about the wild card factors of who people really are leaping across space/time and arriving in our world, you have to
-- this is my paraphrase of what you were saying -- and how there assume that their intelligence is limitlessly greater than ours. And
are certain things that can’t be programmed into their super- therefore anything that they communicate to us could either be
computer, because, actually, you’re talking about actual human very true or very, very maliciously manipulated to control us,
beings that are eternal and magical. almost like a pack.
BD: Exactly. And you see that point ties in with the factions, if BR: Exactly.
you want to call it. You know, you can go to all kinds of different
religious books, whether it’s the Hopi Indians or the Christian BD: In other words, we would be treated like an ant, or
Bible or many other books, and they’ll tell you that there’s been cockroach or like my pet dogs. They would have no way of even
visitations to Earth over all of the ages. understanding what we’re talking about, so it would be almost
sport. Right?
BR: OK. Now…
BR: Yes.
BD: And the way it ties into this is that some of these visitors
have specific characteristics that are very common. For example, KC: Except that, if they’re that intelligent, they also realize that
Naga, in the area of Oceania. Right? Which are, you know, the we’re grand spiritual beings in our own right and therefore
serpent people or the feathered serpent god, or whatever. What they’re actually dealing with something that’s much more
you’ll find… Or the Dagon, which is, you know, the amphibian massive than just our 3-dimensional form.
beings that come from a world. And therefore, even the hat, for
example, that’s on the Pope, is actually called “the sign of
Dagon”, which is a fish-god or Oannes… BD: Exactly, exactly. Here’s the point, though. You’ve got two
perspectives out there. You’ve got one group -- we’ll call them,
just for the sake of it, you know, like David Icke. He was
BR: Yes. Yes. speaking at the UFO Conference up in San Francisco. He calls
them the Reptilians. OK? Or you might call them the serpents,
KC: OK. Right. But . . . like it talks about in the Bible. OK?
BD: …which is always in the background, in other words. And in fact, you’ve got to understand that when you look at the
Bible at things that are a description to people that were
BR: Right now there will be people watching this who say: I shepherds and artisans 2- to 3-thousand years ago. Right? Or you
know I’m eternal and magical, and I’m really interested in what look at other ancient books… And what they’re really trying to
you’re saying. So what can I do? How can I be? What action can describe here is something that’s actually quite similar to what’s
I take to capitalize on my wild card so they may not be able to happening today.
predict what I’m going to do next?
So let’s say we have one group that says: We are a predatory
BD: Yeah, what I’m trying to get at… You know, I hear lots of super-nation of super-scientists that don’t have any spirit, but we
different reports, that people say: I’ve been in touch with the invade and take over worlds.
Pleiadians or Andromedans, or I’m in touch with this group or
that group. But people need to use extreme, extreme discernment. BR: Hum.
BR: Yep. BD: We can invade the mind-space dimension. We can attack on
the physical level. We can put policies in place to cut off the
BD: And the way I think about it is this. Say, you know, if you connection between their physical body and their spiritual body -
went to a new city. Let’s say you were from South Africa and - through things like fluoridation and genetically modified food
you came to New York City, and you didn’t know where to go, or electromagnetic pollution.
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KC: So are you suggesting that it is the Reptilians that are BD: And when there’s an intensity of that reality, it breaks
involved with the current Illuminati? through, for people even that don’t have any, you know, regular
sensitivity. So for example, you know, I’ve talked to people who
BD: Well… Yeah, yeah, yeah. have been in the presence of Hillary Rodham Clinton.
KC: This type of agenda? BR: Right.
BD: Of course. Yeah. It’s just no different than what the Bible BD: And Hillary Clinton has a presence of a demonic entity, if
has been saying all along, -- the serpentine. you want to call it that, a transdimensional Reptilian entity that’s
so powerful… It’s one of the most negative feelings I’ve ever
had. OK?
KC: Right. So I want to sort of base it here in the here-and-now a
little bit so we can understand what you’re talking about.
BR: Mm hm. And you’ve been in her physical presence
yourself?
BD: Right. A lot of times, though, they misjudge it. Because for
example, when… David’s done a lot of really good work. But
one of the times… If you don’t know what you’re seeing because BD: Oh yeah. I was one of the doctors who took care of the
you’ve never seen anything like it before… Englewood Fire Department and the first kid who was shot in
Columbine, Mark Taylor, and we spent about, probably an hour
or so, at the Dakota Ridge High School.
What he did is, he took a thing called ayahuasca, which is an
analog of dimethyltriptamine. And ayahuasca and
dimethyltriptamine opens up what’s called, you know, the spirit And… Because I do see into the spiritual realm. OK? And that
eye. People call it the third eye, the astral eye, or whatever. happens many times after people have had near death
experiences. I died at birth and again at 8-½. And because of that,
there’s a massive release of DMT. And when that happens, it
But basically it is, we’re all born as children with this ability to changes your brain structure and the very nature of how you
see in the spirit realm. And that’s why children see their little perceive things. If it happens when you’re really young, it does it
friends, and see other things, and see good and bad. And they at a time when you can understand and interpret things. If it
have a thing called pavor nocturnus, or night terrors, because happens when you’re older, you can misinterpret things.
they can see in the spirit realm things that aren’t pleasant.
They’re very nasty. Right?
BR: Interesting. Yep. Gotcha.
BR: Yes.
BD: Did you follow me?
BD: They’re not just making it up in their little minds because
they’ve got hormone surges. They’re actually having a problem. BR: Yes I did.
So the reason why I seem to be a little circuitous here is that
people misinterpret the signals. BD: Which is the reason why when you go to any religious
group you’ll find that it’s always children that are exposed to
For example, after David went and took ayahuasca down in things like this so that they can understand them better.
South America, and he got into this altered state, he started Otherwise, you know, you can be creeped out if all of a sudden
seeing what he misinterpreted as shape-shifting. Shape-shifting and start seeing things and you say: Well look, I’ve lost my mind.
doesn’t occur. I’m not rational anymore.
BR: Well, he hadn’t seen it so much himself, as he was taking KC: OK. But you’re saying, in terms of Hillary, you’re actually
reports from Arizona Wilder and others. describing what you consider to be a demonic entity as opposed
to a Reptilian. Is that what you’re saying?
BD: Yeah.
BD: Oh, it’s a Reptilian all right. When you see it, you’re not
seeing a 5-foot-whatever female. You’re seeing a giant Reptilian
BR: And others, and taking those at literal face value. That’s my entity that’s in a different dimension.
understanding. And I have no criticism of him whatsoever.
KC: Exactly. But because it’s a Reptilian entity doesn’t
BD: No, no. I’m not criticizing. necessarily make it demonic.
BR: I’m very interested in your take on this. BD: Ah, well, let’s put it this way…
BD: Well, OK. Here’s the important part of it. It’s not to criticize KC: It’s still an ET from a different dimension.
him because I think what he’s doing, he’s seeing in the spiritual
realm what’s always there.
BD: Well, this was evil. This is evil, yeah. This is evil.
BR: Right.
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What people need to understand is that there’s a vast universe out BR: Right. It’s their perception that’s being altered, not the
there. Just listen to a lot of the scientists -- and everybody that’s physical reality.
probably listening to this will understand. If you just… They’re
looking for bacteria on Mars. And they’re looking for other BD: It’s not physical reality. Yeah.
evidence that there’s even simple life forms on Titan and other
planets, and planetoids, and so on.
KC: We’re tapping into that. But at the same time, let’s talk
about how does that impact the Illuminati agenda? Because
The fact is, if you just take the minimum number of factors, we’ve got a lot of Reptilians who’re influencing that agenda.
there’s 100-billion stars just in this galaxy, and there’s a 100-
billion-billion galaxies. And that’s in this so-called known
cosmos, in this known cosmos, which in a sense is probably an BD: Well, let me explain what happens. If you look at all the
elemental particle in a yet larger universe. Right? secret societies down through history -- not just in our current
history in the last 6,000 years, but basically pretty well all of
human history, going back to previous civilizations that have
BR: Right. Yep. Yep. risen and fallen -- there has been this, if you want to call it, dark
alliance. OK?
BD: Right. [laughs]
Now the dark alliance has been, basically, with higher orders of
KC: Well, I’m still back where you were saying that David Icke these secret orders that it’s passed down through. In the most
was wrong because… recent past, going back the last 6,000 years, it was the ancient
Sumerians and the Egyptians.
BD: Well, wrong because I think…
All the highest rulers of those civilizations would put their
KC: Wrong because he was seeing reptilians and you were children through sex-magic rituals, human sacrifice, and other
saying they don’t shape-shift? things, so they would create, if you want to call it, an astral gate
in their mind, so they could attach these transdimensional entities
to them, almost like the sucker-fish on the shark. OK? And you
BD: Yeah. Well, things have to also match science, too, because could not advance within any of these higher orders unless you
if you have a shape-shift from a smaller individual to a physical went through these ceremonies. So…
presence, that is, you know, a giant Reptilian, or whatever, you’re
going to actually have… The thermodynamic laws will cause
spontaneous combustion. It just wouldn’t occur. KC: Svali talks about this, actually, and so does Leo Zagami.
So what you have to do is… Unless there are changes in the laws BD: Right. So what happens is, for example… If you’re going to
of physics, which isn’t going to occur, then you have… What get to these higher orders within the Illuminati you actually have
you’re seeing is something that’s completely, you know… to go through these rituals in order for you and your...
doesn’t occur.
The greatest power is for your ancestors to actually “curse you”
KC: What you can see, though, is, your perception is changing to be attached by these things, to gain more physical, psychic,
and you’re able to see into different dimensions simultaneously. emotional and intellectual powers. So then, therefore, you can
become a “hu-man” -- which, in Welsh, is serpent man.
BD: Yeah, that’s an ability to…
And if you look at the Magna Carta, it was written not for the
“mansters” -- which is the word manster, which converted to
KC: So they aren’t changing. Your vision is changing. Your monster -- it was for serpent-man or the Royals, those who had
ability to see is changing when you’re looking at them. gone through the ceremonies, who were “hu-mans” which means
serpent-men, and had the transdimensionals literally attached to
BD: Yeah… Yeah. Now, a lot of the time people have to use them almost like a parasite, a psychic parasite, to create a “hu-
these kind of things. Now the biggest problem I am worried about man” which is a new, if you want to call it, hybrid.
is that, when there’s a lack of discernment, there gets to be a
mixed message. And so many messages have a lot of noise in Clay and iron. In other words, you have the iron of the serpentine
them that people won’t get a clear understanding of either the transdimensional beings with their higher science and abilities
opportunities or the dangers of what’s going on. and so on, literally attached to the “man” to create a “hu-man.”
KC: Sure. KC: OK. So basically you’ve got Illuminati with this proclivity,
whatever you want to call it. And then what happens? Because
BD: And so you’ll have people, for example, like Arizona that’s where we are now with society. These people have been
Wilder and others, that say they’ve seen these things happen right leading the way -- if you want to call it “leading” -- down a dark
in the middle of ceremonies or whatever. And what they don’t corridor, so to speak.
understand is that the intensity is so great, they’re actually seeing
into the spirit realm that’s happening in a parallel universe. BD: They consider themselves… You see, one of the problems
is a matter of perception. If you feel in your own twisted way…
KC: Yes.
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You’re deciding what is right or wrong, and you feel you have BD: And, unfortunately it isn’t just one group or another. I’m
the right to decide, and you’re the keeper of civilization. closest allied to, if you want to call it, I’m like a cosmic
messianic believer. And I don’t even like to use the word
For example, if you look at the tunic on the Teutonic Knights. Christian, because it was actually a blasphemy against Christians
Right? You’ll see these strange swinging arms in a form of a and their little anointed ones.
cross. That’s not a Christian cross. That cross was long before
Jesus Christ, long before there was the first Jew, long before BR: Yeah. That term’s already been hijacked long ago.
Egypt and Sumeria. It goes way back to Atlantis and before.
BD: Right. It was hijacked. Now, here’s the point. If you
KC: OK. You’re talking about the swastika as well. Right? actually understand the split in the so-called eastern and western
church, you understand the reason why there’s such a
BD: The swastika is a little different symbol, but that cross determination to not only hijack Judiasm, and Christianity and
actually is a symbol called “As above/ below”. OK? So what Islam, and why this is all kind of leading us toward what’s called
you’re doing is, you’re looking at the swinging arms of a galaxy, this final conflict of Armageddon. It’s been stage-managed at a
above and below the equinoxes. That’s what you’re seeing there. higher level. Right?
OK?
BR: Right.
KC: So here we are at this juncture. We’re actually moving into
the galactic center. KC: Right.
BR: But, but. . . BD: It’s all staged-managed. And the problem is, people don’t
understand they’re being manipulated, even though their every
BD: Right. So we’re moving not only through the plane, but at step is being manipulated. Oh yeah, we’ve got to get Al-Quaeda.
an equinox. So we have the passage through the plane. And an Well, you know, who created Al-Quaeda? When you start
equinox has very important effects, not just on the physical plane, showing that these things were totally manufactured. And Al-
because we’re entering an energy belt which affects the DNA. It Quaeda means “the database”.
affects lifeforms, communications and everything. But it also
affects the spiritual aspects of the creatures on the planet. But it KC: Yeah.
also opens up gates.
BD: But when you show evidence that the World Trade Center
BR: Bring this back now to the problems of discernment, to the towers were demolished with advanced explosives, including,
wild card factors that have got to do with the eternal magical you know, micro-nukes, and thermite; or you start to demonstrate
creatures that we are, and how this can’t be modeled in the super- that the financial line -- like John Boncore, who’s a Mohawk,
computer. who actually speaks prophetically. He was on the show last week.
And then again, what they do think they are trying -- or what you The way I want people to do is, first off, don’t accept something
do think they are trying to do with us over the next few weeks unless it’s intellectually correct, at whatever level they are at, and
and months. Is there a way to align this information in a way that unless they go back quietly and pray and try to hear the Voice of
it’s practically meaningful to people out there, who actually, as the Creator God.
we speak, are thinking: What do I do with my job, my family, my
money, my occupation? KC: Mm hm.
BD: Yeah. I want to get to that, too. BD: Because the problem right now is that there’s so much
noise, it’s discernment to keep them in “babble-on” or
BR: There are practical problems to solve here. confusion…
BD: Yeah. The first thing I think, number one, is they have to BR: Yeah.
discern… Number one: Am I involved with a religion, “real lies
going on”, or am I involved with spirituality? And I’m not BD: …so they won’t be able to discern or they’ll just dismiss it.
necessarily going to put a label on it or tell ’em which one. And they’ll say: Look, you people that talk about UFOs are nuts.
OK? If somebody had told me this years ago, I’d say: You’re
BR: Right. crazy, there’s no way.
BD: What I try to tell ’em is that… For example, I’m a believer, And, you know, going through medical school training, surgery,
but if I go to a church I’m going to cause trouble, because I know whatever, I’d say there’s no way that that could be true. Because
things that they can’t know, won’t know, that are going to show my mind is now focused. I’m going to be a doctor; I’m going to
that a lot of things that they’re teaching are patently lies. OK? help people; I’m going to do this and that.
KC: Of course. I’m getting access to the totality of human knowledge and
science, and I’m going to… At some future date we’re going to
be able to help cure people of disease and so on -- not knowing
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that only 4% of information is accessed to even the university to all the different people. And because I have this advanced
Ph.D. tenured professorial level, at the top levels in the world, technical training, which they never assumed I did -- like you
and the other 96% is by invitation only. know, artificial intelligence, super-computers, electronics,
quantum physics, and other things --I’d talk to them about their
BR: Right. [laughs] project.
BD: Right? Or that society. . . And when you’ve been invited to And after while they were more interested in hearing what I had
enter those realms, then you start to realize, like: My gosh! Your to tell them about what everybody else was doing and projects
whole world is shattered. Right? And that’s what’s disturbing that they didn’t know anything about. So as time went on I
about this, and I’m trying to get the message to the people. gained more and more knowledge.
The hardest is to argue with people. I remember having an BR: Yeah. And it continued training you what questions to ask
argument a year and a half ago with Professor Steven Jones, who and you knew how to listen.
felt that thermate could have brought down the World Trade
Centers alone. BD: Right. They wanted to talk because they couldn’t tell their
wives. They weren’t allowed to tell anybody, their son, their
And, of course, until they’ve had a background in quantum wife, their children, anybody, or their next door neighbor.
physics and nuclear physics -- I was supposed to go to MIT and I
went into honors biochemistry -- I asked him a series of questions KC: So you get this aggregate of information. And on top of it,
that he couldn’t answer on a scientific ground. But he wanted to you’ve had these life-death experiences.
cling to his a priori idea anyway.
BD: Right. And some, what I’d call supernatural, and some other
Even though there is probably evidence it was thermate, there types of experiences that all fit together.
had to be nuclear explosions. There could have not been directed
energy weapons. And I tried to explain to him. Because I was a KC: OK. You’re putting all of this together and then you
doctor for US Space Command and Strategic Defense, Star Wars. eventually create this radio show. Right? And you’re
And I said: I’ve talked to the engineers at very high levels, and I interviewing witnesses and so on. But where are you at now, as
know exactly what’s capable and what we have. we take this whole package? And you’ve got something to say
here because you called us and. . .
KC: OK. You have a really interesting background. OK?
BD: Right
BD: Right.
KC: And I find this very interesting.
KC: But a lot of people say: Well, you’re working for them.
BD: Well actually, I was told to call you.
BD: Yeah. I know they’ll say that, but what people need to do is,
they… Ultimately, they need to do is an intellectual analysis and KC: You were told to call us.
they need to pray. They need to trust their gut, in other words,
their spiritual gut.
BD: I was told to call you.
KC: So how did you get out of it? Because in a sense you did
work for them. Right? You were their doctor. KC: Wonderful.
BD: Well, I was their doctor. But here’s what happened. People BR: By?
are so compartmentalized. To give you an example: Initially I
talked to someone working at, say Falcon. And they had a little KC: By your direct contact above?
badge that would allow them to go into one hallway, and down
one pathway, into one room with a security card. And they’d BD: Yeah. If you want to call it that. I have the direct phone line.
face-scan them with a retinal scan, and fingerprint scan them, and
boom, they go in their room. And they’d spend so many hours
there and they’d walk down the same pathway. And they were KC: You’re not the only one that’s been told that way to call us.
monitored all the way.
BD: Yeah, yeah, I was told to call you and that it was time to call
KC: They had to follow lines. Isn’t that right? you, not an hour from now, but right now. And I did. OK? So
that’s, you know, interesting. And things always happen like that
to me, you know.
BD: They had to follow certain lines on the floor, and if they
don’t, they’re immediately apprehended. And it’s not pleasant.
OK? So they’re very highly compartmentalized. KC: They do?
So you can talk to your doctor. Now, these guys really loved BD: If I told you all the stories you could fill books, you’d have
being able to talk to me because what I would do is, I would talk stacks of tapes of amazing stories.
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KC: OK. truly intuitive at the highest levels, there’s no such thing as
reincarnation.
BD: You’d say: That can’t happen; and that can’t happen. But it
has. KC: Sure, because we’re eternal beings.
KC: All right. BD: Right. Once you start grasping that, it’s like the words of
Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus that says, you know, Though you do it
BR: I want to bring it back to: what are they modeling? to the least of my brothers, you have done it to me. If you actually
felt the pain of allowing your government to attack and blow up
little girls in Baghdad, you wouldn’t do it because it would be
KC: Yes. [laughter] like a neuron connected to another being.
BD: Yeah, yeah. KC: Absolutely.
BR: And what about these guys with their children and their BD: Or you wouldn’t walk by a plant starving for water without
money? Yeah. OK. Fine. watering it. You wouldn’t spread depleted uranium on crops
because you could feel that. In other words. . .
BD: Well, yeah. And I’m going to get to that. So basically I want
people to discern, to use discernment, and I’m. . . BR: You wouldn’t do these things, because you’re doing it to
yourself.
KC: Therefore, why do you think you were told to call us?
BD: Right. It actually is another expression of the “I AM.” OK?
BD: At the moment I had no idea. OK? [Bill laughs]
KC: Totally.
KC: OK. And do you have an idea now?
BD: We’re a gardener of the garden. We’re actually. . . Think of
BD: Yeah. I have a very good idea. each spinning galaxy as a spinning flower in the universe. OK?
KC: Yeah? And do you want to tell us, or do you want to go KC: Yes. But let’s get back to this, because we have Reptilians
down that road? influencing the Illuminati agenda. And we’ve got an agenda
that’s being rolled out on a bunch of eternal beings that don’t
BD: Yeah, anyway… [laughter] What people have to understand really recognize their eternalness. And so how’s it going to play
is that human beings are a supernatural transdimensional being out?
that’s made in the image of the Creator of the universe, just like
the Bible says. OK? BD: Well, first, the thing that I’ve found…
KC: Absolutely. KC: Why has this been allowed to get so far?
BD: But not only that, we’re like cells in a body. And we’re BD: Well, it’s allowed to get so far for a couple of reasons. The
connected, almost like neurons. So that if we get to a level of most important thing in the universe for sentient beings is to have
revelation, it’s not just for our own purpose to use greedily; it’s to free choice. In other words, to choose to remember.
serve the entire body of mankind.
A lot of people think that, you know, you’re going through life to
And the best way to think of mankind is not just, you know, in learn things, or to prove a point or to reach something, you know,
this plane of time/space, but mankind is a non-local being that like a point system, like a grade. And that if you reach a certain
stretches across the cosmos, and into the past, present and future. grade, you can transcend -- which is totally garbage.
OK?
It’s like my little daughter with Down’s Syndrome, she doesn’t
So when you start to grasp that and you have that intuitive. . . have to earn points to be my daughter. OK?
That’s why I tell people… When I try to do talks, I say: You
know, there are two groups of “religions” on Earth. There’s BR: Yeah.
those that believe in reincarnation and those that don’t believe in
reincarnation. Right? And the reason is, they’re both right and
wrong. BD: You are a son or daughter of the Most High God. And
what’s happening is your birthright’s being stolen away from
you, just like the story of Jacob and Esau. It’s being stolen away
KC: OK. from people.
BD: And the reason is, for them, that’s their level of
understanding because that’s where they’re at. When you become
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And the problem is, it’s being stolen away primarily to tell them the real truth out -- which isn’t just facts. Because the problem is,
things that they are not. Or to fill in dogma. And, of course, it’s we have a sea of facts.
interesting -- the word dogma means “am-God”, backwards.
KC: Mm hm.
They’re being told that they should decide what’s good or evil
rather than deciding from the spirit by making that connection. BD: But it doesn’t change people. For example, when you look
Because the only way for people to connect and not have an at the anomalies around 911, how many people have insisted that
eternal matrix is to have the spirit inside them. there’s a proper investigation? Right?
KC: Absolutely. KC: Absolutely.
BD: Now the problem I see is this: People have to discern. BD: Right. And they’re not. Just to follow the financial side and
There’s two groups in the universe. There is, if you want to call all the other anomalies… And we still have all these factions,
it, the Dark Empire. We will call them the transdimenstional even in the so-called 911 movement.
beings. We might call them the Higher Lords of Darkness and
their Princes. And there’s many different civilizations that’re in
this. We don’t even need to get into names, but there’s a whole Well, it’s the same way with “religion.” I call it “real lies going
series of them. on.” They have their dogma they cling to because… It’s what
they call their “hell insurance,” because they’re fearful of
knowing these things out here, of hell, or separation, or whatever
BR: Yep. it is, at the end of their physical life. So hence they kind of stuff
themselves with dogma so that they can feel safe. Right?
BD: You might call them the serpentines, the Reptilians, the Tall
Grays, whatever you want to call them. OK? There’s a whole KC: Mm hm. OK. But you’ve just told us you have three roles
array of these. that are your secondary roles. What’s your first role?
And on the other side, there is a Grand Council of Civilizations BD: My first role is to speak as a prophet.
out there that are very, very caring and they are connected to the
spirit of the Creator God. They are advanced beings, both human,
humanoid and nonhuman, across the cosmos and universe. KC: OK.
BR: And of course this was why the movie Star Wars was such a BD: OK? Now, I’m not talking about Monty Python, fill the
tremendous modern myth because it represented this whole stadium with prophets. And there’s many different prophets. For
archetype that everyone really understands even if they don’t example, I had on the show last week John Boncore/Splitting the
know it. Sky. And I really believe that there are many people, especially
now, that there is a prophetic role for them. OK?
BD: Well, they understand because it’s something that they’re
resonating with their spirit. You see. . . KC: Sure.
BR: Exactly. BD: And they’re from all different nations, colors, peoples,
whatever, on the Earth. It’s like the body of mankind.
BD: It’s almost like someone going through a neuralizer like the
show MIB -- Men in Black. And so they’ve forgotten something But there are specific prophets that have what I call, if you want
but something can jar them back to remember it anyway. Right? to call it, an “executive role,” to try to bring those together, and to
bring the picture together so that there can be a platform to have
an overall synthesis that can be presented back to mankind to say:
BR: Yeah. Right. Now see? So they can start to kind of get with the program before
all hell breaks loose.
KC: Absolutely.
KC: OK.
BD: OK. So in a sense you’re in a state of what I call spirit
sleep. Your spirit’s asleep so that it can then start to reawaken its BD: And that’s one of the reasons why I do my show. And that’s
connectedness with everyone else. one of the reasons I believe I was told to call you. I kind of come
from the perspective… I want people to get rid of “religion” and
KC: OK. But what’s the nuts and bolts to how this plays out, get, in every moment, into spirituality. In other words, don’t go to
though, at the moment? church on Sunday and think you’re safe all week, or whatever
other day you like. Don’t go into your prayer room and think that
BD: Well, I’ll just give you a little story. This is one of the most you’re…
recent ones. Roughly one year ago… And I get visions and
dreams. OK? And one of my primary roles isn’t to be a doctor or KC: OK. But as a prophet… I mean, this is all good but that’s
a whistleblower or a radio host. Those are all secondary. And like the A, B, C’s and we’re, like, way beyond that with our
really, to be honest with you, they’re just a vehicle to try to get audience.
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BD: I’m sure you are. KC: OK. So you’re in front of this council and you’re
witnessing… What?
KC: Let’s give them some credit.
BD: The consciousness of all of these people down through
BD: I’m just telling you what’s not on my show, because a lot of human history.
times they won’t get this on the show because I only present
certain portions of it. Now here’s the next step. KC: OK.
KC: OK. BD: To the council and all these different beings in the
courtroom, and they basically came up with a judgment.
BD: The next step is, one year ago I was taken by the Grand
Council, to the Eschaton. And they said: Now we’re sending you back, and you have… The
time is very short before judgment is going to fall. And mankind
KC: OK. as a corporate being must get this message. And if they don’t get
the message correctly, which transcends religion, politics,
national borders or their version of a new world order or world
BD: The Eschaton is beyond time/space. OK? Now this may government…
seem very bizarre to people. I’ve been there three times. This last
time was one year ago. And it’s not an hallucination. It was a
courtroom, if you want to call it, beyond time and space, with 24 Because they’ve got a world government that’s absolutely
witnesses through human history. OK? noxious. You see, a world government can be world government
with national boundaries and nations. It can be with people who
keep their recipe cards and control of their civilization. It can be
KC: OK. with a world that has some degree of order without knocking all
boundaries down and creating regional trade zones.
BD: And we were brought before the Council because they’re
making a decision, either thumbs-up or thumbs-down, for our Because the world is not based on economy. It’s based on, if you
civilization. OK? want to call it, identity. OK? And what they’re doing is, they’re
homogenizing the identity so they can control the population and
KC: OK. turn people into cybernetic robots, is what they want to do.
BD: And we’re at the knife’s edge of a bad decision. KC: Absolutely.
KC: OK. And I believe you. BD: And they’re already moving us step by grade into a matrix.
Now, the future that they’re talking about is where people,
BR: Right. citizens, can even have the option of having a brain-interface chip
and be loaded into a rack. And they won’t even have to exist in
the physical world. Their bodies would be put into life extension
BD: Mankind as a corporate being has to make decisions to get technology, loaded into a rack for centuries or thousands of years.
on the right timeline. That’s where we’re headed.
KC: Absolutely. People say: Oh no, that won’t happen.
BD: And if they don’t make the right decisions, we’re going to I say: Well, I’m sorry, but that hellish world is right around the
get on the wrong one and we’re going to become a dead cinder. corner.
In a sense this planet, and if you want to think of the Earth as a But it’s dependent on humankind. And whether we’ll even get to
living being, it’s like a giant womb of these spirit-beings called that, or most of this civilization will die… These people are
human beings on Earth, or mankind, that are about to be birthed feverishly building underground bases at the rate here in
to become – I call homo luminous or homo galacticus, or you America, for example, of two bases per year, anywhere from 18
know, an advanced mankind that can interact with advanced to 26 billion dollars.
civilizations across the cosmos -- that doesn’t have to have a
matrix of billions of laws; that doesn’t have to have a chip in us
to track us to make sure we’re good; and do all these things. KC: Yes.
Because where we’re at… We’re at this nexus or crossroads BD: Anywhere from 5.24 to 7.25 cubic miles in size. Most of
where we either are going to have the law as Jesus Christ said them are in dormant volcanic domes or built with nuclear
himself, which was one of the great teachers, Yeshua Ha explosions underground to create these massive domes or what’s
Masaich, which means The Father in the Flesh. OK? And we are called a matrix where they cut these giant tunnels.
the father in the flesh. So are you! As we wake people up, it
manifests what’s always been there. It’s the manifestation that KC: But that’s not going to save them.
counts. We’re not greater than God. We’re just…
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BD: No, it won’t save them. The fact is, it’s not going to be a BD: And there’s all these other human beings that are actually
technical answer that’s going to save them. And that’s where the like in the witness box, 24 of us. And they were being brought
problem is. These are advanced intellectual beings without spirit. forward one at a time, and then our consciousness would be
And that’s the basis of what we call the Reptilian or serpentine uploaded for all of those beings to actually see all our life
empire. experiences and the information on the world and so on. And you
see all these images. And actually, because we were in the box,
It’s like a group of super-scientists with these super-intellects, we could actually see what was being witnessed by the others.
with massive knowledge of energy and time/space, and jumping
across the galaxy, and life extension, and everything. But with no KC: OK. But you’re also being given a message to take back.
spirit, because they do what is right in their own eyes.
BD: Right. The message to bring back is, if you want to call it,
Bill Deagle (BD): ...You know, like one of the things they’ll it’s almost like a Biblical message, because my calling is
often do is, they’ll say: Well, Deagle, if all the stuff you’re telling virtually identical to the calling of Moses, who is my ancestor,
is true, you’re either crazy, or why are you walking around and to Elijah and Jeremiah.
alive?
It’s basically: Repent. Get back connected with the creator God.
I say it’s because I’m being protected on the supernatural level, Don’t set up a set of rules, i.e., stone commandments. Get people
on the cosmic level, and on the spiritual level, and also on the so their heart is so they don’t do things wrong because it’s written
physical. I mean, there’s a lot on the physical level, too. on their heart.
And there’s a number of people even within the organizations It’s the message of “The Kingdom,” which is, in other words, for
you might call the Illuminati, the CFR [Council on Foreign mankind to be an advanced civilization with advanced
Relations] and so on that actually see what’s going on and see the technology that doesn’t get absorbed by the technology like Ray
insanity of it. Kurzweil and many “Luciferians” talk about, is to transcend it
spiritually so that technology is our servant and not our master.
Bill Ryan (BR): They’re not all evil.
BR: Right.
KC: Absolutely.
BD: And that’s what’s happening, is whether it’s genetic

technology that could relieve illness, and stop many of the pains
of fragility as people get older, and we want to lengthen human
lifespan. I belong to the Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.
But I don’t want them to do things like create cybernetic chimeric

super-soldiers, that then become a plague upon the planet, or
super-weapons that are used to kill or destroy others so they can
get control. And so it could be used for good or incredible evil,
and our problem is right now that most of the funding is toward
evil.
Part Two KC: Right.
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Let’s go from exactly where you are… BR: What’s the outcome of this meeting that you’ve just been
because you’re before the Council. They’re making a decision. describing?
BD: Right. BD: The outcome of the meeting was a somberness, a

seriousness that, if we didn’t get the message through to the
KC: And are they conscious that you’re there? Did they invite people, that the planet of Earth would be annihilated, would be
you in? allowed to be annihilated.
BD: Oh, they bring you right in. It’s like a courtroom, you know, A lot of people think, for example, a lot of the space-based
so that we will understand it, of course. But what they do is they weapons platforms we have around the Earth -- Right? Because I
give you a surrounding that you can identify with. So for me, I worked with U.S. Space Command -- are weapons to knock out
was in a physical courtroom. spacecraft, to knock out asteroids or meteors, to, you know,
basically shield Earth against geomagnetic super-storms that may
occur from Solar Mass Ejections and other things, and to control
KC: Sure. OK. the climate. In other words, they’re trying to create a kind of, like
a terrarium, of Earth so as we pass through the galactic plane…
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KC: Right. Except that some of those weapons are located on the BD: …that will then advance to the level where they’ll
Moon and aimed at Earth. understand and come out of the Petri dish and the crib of
civilization and become another advanced culture themselves.
BD: Right. And in fact, most of the weapons there could be
aimed at Earth very easily and have been, and have been used for BR: I’d like to add an anecdote to this, which you may have
great evil -- just like the geotectonic weapon that triggered off the heard, and I’ve also said before on another interview but it’s
Sichuan earthquake, or the earthquake that was struck on Nagata, worth repeating. Bill Birnes, the editor of UFO Magazine was
Japan, and broke the reactor core of the largest reactor in Japan. privileged to talk with Admiral George Hoover of the office of
And it was told three days before to Ben Fulford that his finance Naval Intelligence before he died.
minister, of course, had been warned that he had to pass over
authority to the Rothschilds, or their banking system, or they BD: Right.
were going to hit Nagata. And they did.
BR: And he asked Admiral George Hoover: What’s all this big
BR: Yeah. secrecy about? What’s the real deal? What’s really going on
here?
BD: I mean, it just shows you that the abuse of this power is not
just under circumspection of human beings. If you want to invoke BD: Right.
the Biblical terms, if you want to call the word… angel just
means, in Greek it means messenger. It means these messengers
are always watching everything in the higher planes of existence. BR: Because, what’s the big deal about Roswell and little guys
Right? And they’re here right now. from wherever they’re from or whenever they’re from? Why
can’t we tell the people this? And the long story is that, according
to George Hoover, the biggest secret that the people must not
KC: Absolutely. realize, it’s not this data about the technology or the visitors, or
the existence of the visitors. It’s our own power. This is the
BD: They’re here in this room right now. Right? biggest secret.
KC: I was going to say… BD: It’s our own power. Exactly.
BD: Right. They’re here in this room right now. BR: It’s our own power that we must not realize, because the
greatest secret is who we are, what we can do, what we can be,
KC: So what do they want you to tell people, you know, that has and they’ve got to keep us in our box. Otherwise, their game is
to happen now? over.
BD: Well, it’s wrapped up in one word, and it sounds kind of BD: Right. In other words, the comment made by Yeshua
trite but it’s true. It’s called Repent. OK? Ha'Mashiach Jesus is: Surely you know you are gods. And they
misinterpret the word. In other words, you don’t replace the
Creator God of the universe; it means you’re an extension of it.
KC: Mm hm.
KC: Sure.
BD: And it says in the Book of Malachi, which is one of the last
books of the Old Testament, it says: Repent before the great and
terrible day. BD: And you’re only an extension of it when you hear. The
Hebrew word is shemah, hear and do.
And what it’s really saying is: Reconnect with the Creator God,
become a Child of God, take your scepter. In other words, the problem I see right now is that we have a
society that thinks, by external rules and controls, we can create
this Luciferian world of order in chaos, so they can create a world
And we have authority. You’re no longer just a little bug down of “peace” which is totally an ordered world that is completely
here, a worm on the planet Earth and a small dwarf, yellow dwarf under, if you want it call it, you know, scientific control. It’s a
star. You are the Voice in this plane of existence of the Creator scientifically-controlled society, not ruled by spirit.
God. The spirit in you is not a separate spirit. It is the I AM. OK?
The very nature of what we are, though, is a spirit being passing
You have the authority to create your own future. You have the through a matrix of energy that creates worlds. We are literally
authority to destroy disease and poverty, and not have pollution, creating our own timeline in our name.
and have limitless energy and information and to spread
peacefully and interact with other civilizations throughout the
cosmos without disrupting or destroying them, but maybe being BR: Yes.
almost like, if you want to call it, midwives to other
civilizations… BD: And the thing is, corporately we are creating our own
timeline in our name. That’s why, for example, I tell people on
KC: Absolutely. the show repeatedly: Don’t drink the Kool-aid of fear.
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KC: Mm hm. So I woke up in the middle of the night, bolt upright, and I sat up.
And I had all the lights on because I’d have to periodically go to
BD: Because fear itself creates, if you want to call it, a the restroom or whatever. I had all the lights on. And this guy
backburner or an atmosphere that allows them to create the web was standing in front of me with what I call a $5,000 tuxedo, not
of destruction that occurs next. a gray hair in his head, mid-50s, slim and trim.
BR: Yes. I said: How did you get in here?
BD: In other words, they can think themselves into bombs going And he says: It’s wonderful to see you, my son
off in cities. They can think themselves into a release of plague. .
They can think themselves into a grand depression, where I said: You’re not my father.
thousands of people starve to death and start cannibalizing. They
can think themselves into. . . And I looked at this guy, and he looked like French nobility.
Right? And I said: Who are you?
One of the things they try to do, is that want to have this fear
worship. They want to elevate you so then you become almost He says: I am the Baron Guy de Rothschild, the Pindar.
like another avatar, rather than, no different than, that. I’m not
any different than my little daughter, or the pert little, what they And I had this really kind of, what I call a check or a kind of a
call them in the military when they’re shooting ’em, “rag-heads,” cringe in my spirit. And I knew right away, because I have this
over in Iraq. I am the same. I’m just another incarnation of the I gift. Right? Without getting into a big long discussion, I knew
AM. right away.
BR: Yep. I said: I know who you are. You’re the representative of the
Luciferic power that controls Earth.
BD: And the point has to be this: That if we don’t start getting
back to that connectedness, we’ll think it’s OK to have this He says: Yes, I am the CEO of Earth, Inc., and I am the man that
thermonuclear / scalar / biological warfare; it’s OK to kill most of sits in the 13th chair of the Druidic Council. I want you to be my
the population of Earth; it’s OK to create a new cybernetic super- understudy, and when I transcend I want you to take over my job.
army, and replace the military, and destroy them in fact when we
release these damn things.
And I said: No, I’m not going to.
As I say, one person said to me: If half of what you say is true, or
even 10 percent, we’re in a lot of trouble. He said: We know your bloodlines; we know your genetics; we
know everything about you and you’re a perfect replacement for
me.
BR: Oh, we’re in big trouble!
And I said: No!
BD: I have a very special calling, not because I’m special, but
because I hear and do the will. And people need to understand
that. One of the things they try to do is, they’ll say, you know, ten And after I rejected it, he said: I’m going to kill you for writing
years or a century or a thousand years from now, they’ll try to these two books, which I received supernaturally facedown on the
say: That guy was so special. No one can ever be like him. concrete, you know, about six years before, which no one knew
about because it was in my study.
And what I want to tell them is I have had many opportunities to
go to the dark side, and I could have been one of the greatest evil- KC: What do you mean, you “received supernaturally facedown
doers that ever lived on this planet. on the concrete”? What do you mean by that?
BR: And you were approached a couple of time, is that right? BD: Basically I was “out,” if you want to call it, and I was told
to write these books, and I wrote them down, which I released
back in 1999 with a group called The Prophecy Club.
BD: Numerous times.
And he said: And I’m going to touch your baby daughter’s heart.
BR: Numerous times.
I said: I don’t have a daughter, and my wife’s not pregnant. And
BD: One of the most serious was 16 years ago, where I was he started laughing. And I thought he rebuked me because I serve
sleeping in my home. I was actually back from working in the God of the Universe, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Georgia at a burn unit and trauma unit, and having a practice
there, and I had come back for family reasons to Infield, Nova
Scotia. And I was sleeping in a different part of the house And you could see his countenance change. He got really nasty
because I was snoring. looking. And then all of a sudden, literally – four feet -- as far as
you’re away from me, in broad daylight, he just “poof” and
disappeared, like in a vortex.
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And I went upstairs shaking, and I could hardly talk, you know. I But the key issue to me… And I think that I was permitted to go
told my wife what happened. So the next morning I went to my through these experiences - this is one of the many ones - is to
office to do a pregnancy test, and of course she was pregnant. understand the issue of the sacredness of all human life, whether
it’s the disabled, the elderly, people of different faiths, skin
And like six weeks later we’re sitting in the ultrasound room. colors, intellectual powers, whatever, that we’re all in a sense the
During medical school I had worked with Dr. McMillan and I continuous incarnation of the Creator God, which is the message
actually did some of the background research on ultrasound of The Kingdom that Yeshua Jesus was trying to give.
before any of the doctors in North America actually had it for
analysis, so I could read ultrasounds. The other experience I want to share is back in… October 10th of
1993, I was face-down praying and I was brought supernaturally
So I’m sitting in the ultrasound room and the tech’s moving over by, if you want to call it, the term, archangel, which is one of the
my wife’s abdomen. And as she scans over the abdomen, the senior messengers.
technician, you could tell… Her lips dried right up, and she had
this kind of stark look on her face. And I knew right away. I I was brought by this archangel, and he announced his name. He
could see nuchal thickening and the center of my daughter’s heart said he name was Gabriel. Right? And the word Gabriel means
was stopped. one who has a message from the voice of the Most High God.
Gabriel means one who can speak for God. Right? That’s what it
BR: Wow. means.
KC: Is this the young girl we just met? And he brought me to an underground facility. He brought me to
some satellite facility. And we didn’t just walk around and he
kind of said: This is that, and this is what’s been happening. He
BD: Right. Now you’ve got to understand that some of the actually explained the technology to me in great detail. We spent,
things that’ve happened to me are so remarkable that they just, if you want to call it in the spirit realm, I spent hours and hours
you know… and hours with him.
She was born through C-section. I was told supernaturally, I had And I said: Well, where am I?
visitations that told me that she wasn’t going to die, even though
the surgeons said: We don’t know why she’s even born alive.
Because her heart was… Literally the center of her heart was And he wouldn’t tell me. He said: You’re gonna know because
gone. She had almost a single chamber heart. Right? Which is a you’re gonna go to the place where this pastor is.
miracle.
And I thought it was Dallas. Right? So I called up. No, no he’s
And they did the first surgery at six and a half months. By the already left here. He’s gone to Colorado Springs. It was a pastor
way, we’re pro-life. We knew that she was going to be born with by the name of Pastor Doug Sheets.
Downs Syndrome, and of course we hoped that it was going to be
somehow miraculously healed. So my wife called, and she checked with a placement agency.
She said: Well, there’s no jobs available in Colorado Springs.
But I was told, basically, don’t be fearful, that she’s going to
survive, and she’s going to have this surgery. She had her first So three weeks later, she got prompted to go and start calling
surgery. She had already lost four ounces from her birth weight around. And the second hospital she called, she talked to a lady
by the time she had her first surgery. by the name of Joyce Wolf, who is the head of CCom. Oh, we
need an Op-Med doctor. Your husband does occupational and
And then at two and a half years, her heart started to enlarge environmental medicine? He has a background in…? And, you
again. It was now the size of an adult heart and she was about to know, I was a charter member of Greenpeace, and had a
die. So we had oxygen tanks, you know, oxygen pumps background in toxicology and chemistry and biochemistry. Oh
concentrating oxygenated air and it had a 60-foot long tube going good, we’ll fly you up this weekend. And four days later I had the
to her bedroom with a little mask before her surgery. job.
And so I had a. . . because I have visitations all the time. They KC: Hm.
told me: This is the words the surgeon will say to you, that I don’t
know what I did, but I put in only four sutures, and her heart was BD: July 10th of the next summer, which was July 10th of 1994,
miraculously healed. I walked through the same facilities underground and the same
satellite-based engineering stations and classified projects as I
There’s not even just a grade-one mitral valve defect. They didn’t had with the angel.
have to replace the heart valves. But literally, with the Dacron
grafts that he had done earlier, and with just a few sutures, she’s KC: OK.
healed. She never even had to be on a heart drug, never been in a
hospital, hasn’t even ever had a cold, which is amazing for BD: OK? That’s just one of hundreds of experiences. OK? So
Downs Syndrome. Right? people need to know that we are being watched. The reason why
the Earth is not an engulfed mass of biological weapons release,
even though we had 347 accidents just last year in Class Four
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installations. That’s not even Fed-Ex Couriers. We have no idea You know, one of the talks that I had back in July of 1994 was,
how many times we’ve been saved from cataclysm. of course… The Senior Commander of the US Space Command
comes up and he’s a very sharp, “this is the way it is” kind of
BR: Yep. guy.
BD: We have no idea. The number of interventions is just… I He says: Docs, I come to Jesus- talk you.
say making angels gray-haired. [laughs]
And I thought: Oh, oh, what’s he going to say to us?
BR: Yeah.
And he has this real serious look. He says: You’re one of our guys
BD: And if you want to call ’em ETs, angels or whatever you now. So you’re gonna hear stuff, because you’re working with
want to do, but we are being watched and we’re being watched these guys who are working on all these weird projects. These
over very, very diligently because it’s such a desperately late guys are the brightest guys in engineering, cybernetics, physics,
time. space-based weapons, everything. And you’re going to get
exposed to things.
BR: But these guys… Are you saying that they’re not going to
step in forever, or there’s certain things they can’t do? And so you won’t hear it from somebody else, so I’m going to tell
you right now. We control every cubic centimeter of space
between here and Mars.
BD: No, they can step in only if there’s a transformation of the
heart. You see, it’s not going to be space-based technology to
knock out, you know, to shield the Earth from the collapse of the And I said: What? I said: You mean between here and the Moon.
magnetosphere. It’s not going to be space-based particle weapons
that can hit an incoming meteor. Or a solar storm. He said: No. Mars. We’ve had a colony on Mars since the early
1980s, and we found evidence of previous civilizations of human
It’s going to be a change in the heart of mankind that we will not life on there going back a long time.
harm any other race. We’ll not invade a country, like what we’ve
done in Iraq and kill 1.5 million Iraqis. We will not put poison in We’ve had an entire city on the Moon for mining operations for
vaccines and call it fine. Helium-3.
We will not go to third-world countries like Poland two months We have entire fleets of space-based vehicles, and we have more
ago and do tests on Polish vagrants and kill them. There were 300 advanced sub- and above-light vehicles that are interstellar. OK?
tests and 23 died within minutes, and 200 more were very
seriously sickened. You need to know that. Even though we have entire rings of
space-based platforms around Earth, we have collaboration with
And they’ve now imported to America 500 million doses of the advanced civilizations. And if you don’t know this stuff, you might
Sanofi Pasteur Vaccine made on contract for Homeland Security. as well know it now. And if you have questions about anything,
ask me, because otherwise, if you’re not in the loop, you’re
Now it’s not to scare people. It’s to make them understand that gonna freak out.
the reality that I try to present on the show is both the technical,
scientific, public information, you know, in the public domain, as KC: OK. When was this? What year?
well as classified. But you’ll see an overall picture. But then on
this other side there’s the spiritual dimension to that. BD: July 10, 1994. OK?
And they have to understand that, whether there’s. . . I get people BR: Yep. All of this corrob… all of this is. . . Let me start that
all the time: Should I leave North America? Should I leave sentence again. Nothing we know contradicts anything that you
America? have just said. The information that we’ve got from other sources
completely supports everything you say.
I say: No, now is the time for us to confront this because you
can’t go far enough away. BD: Right.
And they say: Well, what do you mean? How far? BR: This is just testimony for the people watching this.
And I say: Well, Mars isn’t far enough away for these guys. BD: Right. I know, and I’m saying this straight out.
KC: Right. BR: This is the way it is.
BD: I say: You have to understand… BD: Yeah. Now you’ve got to understand that the number of
convergences… When I traveled around to The Prophecy Club,
to 42 cities in Israel, and I tell my story, people said 100
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individuals couldn’t have been in all those places, but I was Well, since that time… You really need to understand… I’ve
supernaturally told, just like I was told to call you guys. been in so many places… at the wrong place at the wrong time.
[laughs]
KC: Mm hm.
I was the doctor for the Englewood Fire Department and the
BD: I was the exit examining doctor for the Special-Op forensic ladder truck that was actually there on the scene, including a
team that came back from the Murrah Building in ’95, and my number of the other people there, so I know exactly what
boss, Major George Schwinder, was not available because he was happened. It was a complete government op at Columbine.
getting extra air time at Fort Hood, Texas. So all five Special-Op
agents, I had to examine ’em. I was the doctor for the first kid shot in Columbine. And I had
one pediatric patient, and he had only started working there,
One of the five broke down and told me in great detail how they going to school, because he had a special-ed need -- Mark Taylor
removed two unexploded fourth-generation U.S. Army Corp -- three weeks before. Right?
Engineer micro-nukes, thermate, RDX, and high explosive cores,
and the buildings were brought down by the FBI and ATF. And when he came out of hospital after two 14-hour procedures
and 57 units of blood, his mother asked me to put my hands on
I kept that information hidden. And as I was driving down the him and pray for him. And I have an intuitive gift of discernment
street in Littleton, Colorado -- because I had my practice in that’s very unique. So I put my hands on him.
downtown Denver, and I was living in Littleton and down on the
Highlands Ranch. And I knew right away. I said: You have an abscess in your chest
that they missed, and I’m going to put you on a specific antibiotic
KC: And this was after… and in three days to the hour you’re going to call me in pain and
I’m going to put you in hospital and drain it.
BD: This was after. This was back in 2003. I’m driving down the
road, and because I do have this gift, literally I hear the voice of And to the hour he called me. OK?I put him in the hospital and I
God, just like Moses. told the radiologist, I said: Now, when you go and do the CT
scan, put this catheter into the abscess.
KC: Right.
He said: Well how do you know that?
BD: You know, what it talks about in the Bible? I’m the
bloodline descendent. OK? I said: Well, when you do the CT you’re going to see the abscess.
Put the catheter in, drain it, and call a thoracic surgeon. OK?
God said: Turn on the radio. And I turn it on.
So he did and he said: How did you know that?
And he said: Turn to this channel.
And I said: It’s a long story. OK? So don’t get… [Bill laughs]
And I do and I’m hearing this guy talk about financial things. I
say: Oh, that’s boring. Why am I listening to this? Three weeks later he’s walking around with a PCA pump getting
fentanyl. So he can press the pump every so many minutes and
the pump will then remember so he can’t press it too many times,
And then all of a sudden. . . Don’t turn it off. and he gets a little burst of fentanyl. And he’s in agony.
And then a guy comes on and it’s Alex Jones. And Alex comes And this abscess is about the size of a fist, and the thoracic
on and he starts talking about this New World Order stuff, and I surgeon’s itching. He says: OK, well, we’re going to have to cut
got this real kind of pinge in my spirit because I’d kept this this out, because if we don’t the abscess will expand or it’ll go
information hidden since ’95 to 2003. I said: I’m going to release septic and he’ll die.
this information. So I called into the show a couple of times and I
told them I have information about Oklahoma City.
So I told Mark. He’s 16-and-a-half; he’s not really bright; his
mother is kind of emotionally a basket case, and he said: Well. I
And the guy who asked me to do a really extensive interview was want… They were, you know, they were “believers,” you know,
a Pastor Butch Paugh on Genesis Network. Well, after that, the Christians. They don’t believe in miracles. They don’t believe
network called me back and said: We want you to do the show. So that we have the authority to take authority over reality, whether
in February of 2004 I started doing a radio show on Genesis. it’s our physical bodies or whatever.
Now, before that, I had done a kind of, like an entertainment So I said: Look Mark, I’m going to pray for you. I said: And
show, called Laughter is the Best Medicine on Clear Channel. So tomorrow morning instead of you going in for surgery, you’re
I’d go there on Wednesday nights with Mark Alan Curry. We going to walk out of here.
used to have a fun time going down to the Clear Channel studios
in Denver and just crack jokes back and forth and talk about
wellness and toxicology and environmental medicine, and anti- And at first he looked at me like: Whoa, that’s a pretty bold thing
aging and things like that. to say.
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So I stayed up all night and I prayed for him. Next morning I And Mark literally stayed and lived with us for almost a year-
came in about 7:15 and I just put my hand on him and said: God, and-a-half. He went to vacation with us, even to Las Vegas.
you saved this kid from seven bullets to the chest. Right? And one Right? Even when they asked me to go up in January of 2000 to
to the arm and leg. (And the bullets actually went behind his speak at the Full Gospel Fellowship, I paid my own ticket. We
heart and in front of the aorta. One hit the T-9 vertebra and didn’t ask for anything.
knocked a fragment off.)
So what happened is, the mother had been contacted by a big
And this is the way I talked to God, I said: You’re going to heal movie company, wanting to turn this into a Columbine movie,
him immediately and you’re going to transform his body so he’ll and they got real angry that we wouldn’t just hand everything
be a witness, because you didn’t allow him to survive this without over or do things their way.
being able to tell the truth of what happened in Columbine.
I said: No, no, we’re not going to turn this into a sideshow here.
So I put my hand on him. It was like holding a high-tension This is real serious; we had this kid survive; we had this
power line. All of a sudden it just felt like this energy [makes miraculous thing happen; we don’t want this to turn into a
sizzling noise] coming right through me. And I could see literally sideshow. And that’s where the negativity started.
with the mind’s eye, if you want to call it, The Creator. I could
see right down to his cells, and everything, and it was gone. BR: Yeah.
I said: Mark, get your clothes ready. We’re walking out of here. BD: But it’s really unfortunate that happened, because Mark is
still, you know, he’s very sick right now. He’s been in and out of
BR: Wow! Yeah. a psychiatric facility.
BD: And I walked up to the front desk to the nurse and I said: KC: Mm.
He’s not going to surgery for a 7-hour procedure to cut out four
ribs and take out this abscess. He’s coming home. BD: His doctor, one of his doctors, in Iowa contacted me: What
can we do to try to help him?
She looked at me like: Oh-oh, this guy’s a nut case. How can we
get psychiatry down here? Right? I said: Well, you know he needs serious help. But a lot of the time
they give these young people drugs that I think are patently toxic.
I said: No. Repeat the CT scan. It’s gone. So they repeated the CT
scan and an hour-and-a-half later, he was hopping and skipping KC: Yes.
out of the hospital.
BD: We know for example, when you give somebody that’s
BR: Fabulous. manic depressive, SS or I drugs like Luvoc, Prozac, etc., they go
over the deep end. Unfortunately, his doctors gave him the wrong
KC: Now isn’t info about this on the web, about this boy and his drugs.
mother in regard to you?
KC: OK.
BD: Oh, what happened is they get involved with... The mother
has a problem; she’s a manic depressive. And they offered all BD: OK? These drugs came out of Hoffmann-LaRoche. They
kinds of big movie scripts and money and everything and Mark came out of mind control projects in the Soviet Union and
actually… Germany going right back to I.G. Farben. They get right back to
G proteins. And he had a real bad reaction from whatever they
Right now I just got a contact from her doctor just last week gave him.
because I’m trying to help the doctor. He called me all the way
from Iowa, saying: Please, you’re one of the few people that care BR: Yes. Now if I can steer this back now…
for Mark. And I still do, and I care for his mom, too.
KC: Yes.
But they said a lot of nasty things because they got involved with
some pastors, and they got a big possibility of a movie contract.
BR: Because that was a beautiful story and it’s great to have that
on record, but how you were in the right place at the right time so
And what was happening is I was working and my wife was many times that most people would never believe it. But backed
working on collecting a ton of information, because we were up from that you’ve been in the right place at the right time for a
going to private showings of videotape that the public didn’t see. reason here and that is to give what you would probably call your
I got a chance to interview and talk to almost every other child testimony.
that survived the Columbine shooting.
BD: Well, I’m a witness. I’m almost like Daniel in the lion’s
So there were many of the kids that actually died of SWAT Team den. I’ve been in places that most people can’t even imagine.
bullets. There were at least, probably, we think up to 4 kids that
may have died from SWAT Team bullets, from the forensics.
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Like in 1977 I was supposed to do research on MS [multiple BR: We’re nearly two years further on from there. Where are we
sclerosis] at the Santa Monica VA Hospital, part of UCLA. And now? What does this mean for the human race and for the
one of the projects was to work on a Ph.D. neurology residency individuals watching this now?
under Dr. Wallace Tourtellotte.
BD: Well the timeline to watch for is actually the nation of
And the other four projects were all classified. Four of them were Israel. OK? And the timeline to watch is…
actually cybernetic projects. One was actually a helmet that
would convert thoughts directly to on-flight commands directly And that’s why my calling is particularly important, because I’m
to a supercomputer that they already had with command, or going to re-release my book, Clay and Iron, here sometime in the
symbols, that would be projected onto the canopy of the jet so not too distant future. Right?
you could fly the jet by thoughts, fire off ordnances.
KC: OK.
And the other three projects were to take prisoners from West
Orange and Irvine State Penitentiaries and wet-wire their brains
with platinum and palladium micro-wires. BD: Yeah. So if you look at the nation of Israel, there’s so much
contradiction. All the stuff with Iran is all over Israel. OK?
And Dr. Tourtellotte had a custom-made CT implanter that was
used with a CT scan that could implant micro-wires in specific BR: Yes.
nuclei in the brain to actually use supercomputers -- that were
classified -- to convert neural-net stochastic firing sequences so BD: Even American foreign policy. The reason why they went
they’d get particular images. So you could control their behavior, into Iraq was Israel. A trillion dollars spent, the collapse of the
see what they see, hear what they hear. economy -- it’s all tied back to Israel. OK?
And I turned it down. I said: No. You people are crazy! And people say: Well, why is Israel so important? Why was there
a first holocaust? Why is there planning to be a second?”
KC: OK, to turn them into Manchurian Candidates.
And it’s really pretty simple. Think of it this way: If the Creator
BD: Yeah, they actually had a thing called the “Rambo-chip,” of the universe made a people, or a group of people, you could
that they had back in the ’60s and this is part of Delgado’s call it a mixed group of people, the ancient tribes of Israel, as an
research at Yale. They had a thing called the Rambo-chip and object-lesson to the world, a scapegoat in a sense, a way of
what the Rambo-chip was, was a rage-control chip that was in the explaining to people: If you try to follow The Law you get
subthalamic nucleus that could actually control rage. You flip the condemned and destroyed. OK?
switch and they would kill, and you would turn it off and they’d
stop. And what would happen is that… The original books of the Bible
spoke about a God you could not see that was the Creator that
So this was one of the things the residents would laugh at: Ha, created you in his image. OK? And, even if they didn’t
ha, ha. We can do this stuff. But I think that’s pretty ghoulish. understand it, they tried to adhere to it. They kept every jot and
tittle. Right?
And people don’t understand that a lot of the people that they
give these projects have 180-plus IQs, but they’re twisted. OK? And so the “People of the Book,” which is what they used to be
Or if they’re not, they’re compromised. And if they eventually called -- they weren’t called the Jews or the Israelites -- they had
discover it and they try to pull back, they do things like “patch” to be wiped out because they would tell people. Even if they went
them. You ever heard of what a patch is? off and they went through a reformation or they learned from
other religious groups, whether it’s Buddhists, or Hopi, or
natives, they’d eventually start getting beyond religion.
KC: I’m not sure.
As I said in my talk on The Granada Forum, ten thousand years
BD: OK. A patch is where they give you an intravenous patch. from now will there be anything called “religion”? Of course not.
The patch lasts three days. OK? Or a transdermal patch. And if It won’t exist because we’ll have a full knowledge of the Creator
you don’t get the next patch in three days you die a horrific death. Gods and what they are. Because we can’t exist and transcend
beyond the technology unless we do that. We won’t survive.
BR: Mm hm.
KC: Right, but people. . .
BD: OK? So they’ve got you on a short string.
BD: In other words, the two are mutually exclusive.
BR: Gotcha. OK. Now, some of this is on record on the Granada
Forum Lecture and a lot of people watching this will already be KC: But to get back to what the role is of Israel.
familiar with that material.
BD: The role of Israel is a timepiece. It’s actually a detonator.
BD: Right. It’s a transformative event. It’s like the ultimate, if you want to
call it, death trap for civilization.
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So what’s happened? For example, I’ve had on my show kind of on the outs, that they developed with the South Africans.
numerous times, Barry Chamish. A good example is, the nation They even, a lot of the time, buy their own jets and just stack ’em
of Israel arose, and the holocaust… The greatest lies in modern right up. They have the number one air force on the planet in
history have been about the holocaust. Yes, they killed almost 7 terms of rapid response, and killing capacity. Number one, not
million Jews. Yes they killed probably, of others, up to maybe 23 number two or three.
million.
What happens is, you divide that nation and they have no
But the real goal was not only a ritual sacrifice to the boundary zone where they can protect themselves. And the only
transdimensional demonic realm. Right? But the real goal thing they can do is to pull a “Samson Option” and hit a button.
transcends that. It was to wipe out the idea of a Creator God and They have space-base platforms. Because Israel has them. Israel
that we’re an incarnation of the Creator. has space-based weapons platforms, imaging systems, terrible
stuff. They could wipe out every city within 10,000 miles of
Because eventually if the reformation and all these other things them. They can just “bam.” They’re gone. OK?
were to continue to proceed… Since the breakup of the control of
the Roman Catholic Church, and all the spinoffs and everybody BR: But they. . .
trying to get into the New Age, and all the other religious things,
where there’s a return to spirituality… KC: What is the plan?
The big move right now is not toward religion, it’s toward BD: The plan is. . . It’s all being set up because, you see, the
spirituality, whether they’re coming from a Christian viewpoint, a leaders of Israel are Satanic Luciferian. The entire State of Israel
Jewish viewpoint, a Buddhist viewpoint. And they’re all starting was set up, as Barry Chamish has said, so they could cleanse
to kind of compare notes and realize that, even though they use themselves of any who is a “Torah Jew,” anyone who
different terms, they’re starting to understand there’s a understands the nature of the Creator God.
commonality there.
Even if they didn’t understand the depths of it, they didn’t want
KC: Sure. anybody to understand that they were created in the image of a
God and they’re a spirit having a physical existence on this plane
BR: Yep. of existence.
BD: Right. They wanted to then replace them with a Luciferic idea, an
agnostic idea, a communist idea. So the State of Israel was
KC: But still, to steer you back. So the role of Israel at this originally sponsored with the Soviet, the actual Communist
time… Soviet. OK?
BD: Well, the role of Israel is primarily to act on the, if you want BR: Mm hm.
to call it, on the Luciferian serpentine side, is to act as a detonator
for the final annihilation of mankind. BD: And the idea was to create an agnostic Luciferian society
where they follow the highest tenants of Babylonian Kabbalah,
BR: So, in practical terms… which means that they themselves are Gods. OK?
BD: They use it as a final focal point. In other words, they replaced God because therefore they are the
energetic intelligent force that’s willing to use good or evil,
following this Shabbatai Tzvi, you know the false anti-Messiah,
KC: You mean they’re going to attack Iran, and in return… 1666, and Jacob Frank, to actually create a world order where
“these Luciferic cabalists would control the world.”
BD: Yeah, or the threat of an attack will set in motion the peace
treaty that’ll partition the State of Israel. Just think of it this And that’s what happening now. You can see it with the financial
way.Logically, if you’re from another world and you were to see system. You can see it with the political system. You can see it
a nation that’s the size of, you know, a little tiny strip of land with everything, that these Luciferic Satanists…
anywhere from 10 to 16 miles long -- the third nuclear power...
Probably the most advanced in terms of biological weapons on
the planet is the State of Israel. The two groups at the very top are Teutonic Knights, who think
they’re bloodline descendants through Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus
and King David. That’s one group, which are all the Royals of
KC: Yes. Europe. And the other group are the Sabbatian Luciferic Satanists
-- Satanic Jews.
BD: They’re number one.
KC: OK.
BR: OK.
BD: Those people run the world.
BD: They have their own space-based imaging systems,
ImageSat. They’ve got all kinds of weapons, when they were KC: Led by the Pope. Right?
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BD: Led by the Pope and the Black Pope and the Knights of BD: Or the Illuminists who think: Well, who cares if we blow up
Malta, and they’re totally controlling it. And they’re interacting the world? We’ll just go to our underground bases and we’ll
at such a level that they literally have physical presence of these survive and then we’ll come back up in a decade or century. Like
demonic reptilian beings right even in the Vatican… the Morlocks, you know, of H.G. Wells’ Time Machine.
BR: Yep. And it’s insanity. Because they’re not going to survive what’s
going to come. They’re not going to survive it. OK?
BD: Right in, you know, and people need to understand.
And they need to grasp that what we’re heading for here is,
When you get these deepest underground bases… I had one unless they take up the scepter of what they are and the power
Canadian engineer who actually controls and engineers and takes that they have to decide for life -- just like Moses when he took
care of the Aurora Space Fleet, that fly out of our underground the six tribes in Mount Ibal and Mount Garizin and put between
bases in central Germany and the Black Forest and fly to our [them] an amount of cursings and an amount of blessings and he
Moon bases and on to Mars. said: Today, choose life.
And he’s terrified to come on the show. And I’ve been talking to In other words, you’re not taking away their choice. You’re
him for the last couple of years. But he’s showed me enough saying: You need to grow up and you need to stop talking about
technical information and facts and sent me stuff that I know that easy-be-livism, prosperity gospel, all this other foolishness, and
his story is real. Right? So I’m going to repeat it. you need to start talking about relating to other humans.
After 10 months of psychological testing, they finally said: Well, You can’t fund a country on a credit note to go and kill a million
now you’re in the deepest of the D.U.M.B One Bases and we’re and a half Iraqis. You cannot decide to invade Iran, when we
going to bring you down to the final level. And he gets down know that they hit the Bashear reactor and 450 targets.
there and all of these beings are right there in the flesh. OK?
I’ve got my military contacts inside there, and experts have told
BR: Mm hm. me in the last 4 to 6 weeks, that it’ll kill between 1-1/2 to 15
million in the first two weeks, and it could be as high as 32
billion plus. And the radiation cloud will go downwind and will
BD: Just like out of Star Wars. OK? It’s really crazy, but he says move directly through Yemen, all the way through to Saudi
it’s real. Arabia, and heading down toward China and Japan.
And I said: Why won’t you come on and tell us? BR: And that’s after an Israeli strike? Or the Americans?
Because, he said, I don’t want to shatter people’s religious BD: Right. Well, what happens is, if they start it, the Americans
beliefs. are already pre-positioned there. So the thing is, what this will
do…
And I said: Well, I do want to shatter them, because it’s a sacred
cow, and in fact their religion, whether they’re this group of KC: Well, how can this be prevented?
Christians, or this group of Jews, or this group of Buddhists,
they’re all wrong. They’re all wrong.
BD: It can be prevented… Well the first thing that they’re going
to do is, they’re gonna try to bring us to the brink of destruction,
In other words, I call it [religion] “real lies going on.” It doesn’t and then set up their peace treaty to divide the land. And what
mean you throw out the baby with the bathwater, like Bill Marr happens is…
in his movie that’s coming out this week called Religious, you
know, when he says anybody who’s religious is a fool; they’re an
idiot… Olmert has already promised that he’s going to let this go through
within twelve months of him leaving, before they could have a
transition to the next Prime Minister, which means we’ve a time
KC: Mm hm. window, probably 11 months now, where they’re going to
actually put in the final treaty to divide the city of Jerusalem and
BD: …because of all the foolishness that religions are doing – divide the State of Israel.
like, I call them the “Armageddonites” -- that are supposedly
Christians that believe that they have to bathe the world in blood That’s setting the detonator. You can’t do that. If you do that, you
and fire. guarantee a thermonuclear war or a chemical / biological / scalar
war that’s going to end civilization on this planet.
KC: Right.
You cannot divide the land of the State of Israel. You have to
BD: Or the Sabbatians who think: Well, we’ll just pull the have an inclusive government that can include Arabs, and
Samson Option and go down to our underground bases. Because Christians, and Jews, and people from Baha’i or whatever.
they have a ton of ’em down there.
KC: And Palestinians.
BR: Hm.
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BD: And Palestinians. And you have to not make them feel like And I did that. And I warned them. I said: Now, I’m a prophet
third-world citizens or that if they intermarry, or if they and I’m telling you, if you try to expose to the world that this oil
evangelize they’re going to end up in jail or whatever. In other is here, you’re going to precipitate an immediate war. You’re
words, you have to have dialogue between people and not have going to have millions of people coming in here. Because there’s
apartheid, which is what they have there. more oil there than the whole world put together. Right?
BR: I haven’t understood you there, personally. If you’re saying KC: OK, but you’re exposing that right now.
that the State of Israel becomes divided, what’s the connection
between that and the inevitability of a huge war? BD: I’m exposing that now because it has to be exposed.
BD: Because Israel will be pushed to the point, when the conflict KC: OK.
reaches its culmination, that it will start the trigger for a
thermonuclear conflict.
BD: It’s the time now to expose it. Because what’s going on now
is… Basically there’s a number of things in motion now that…
BR: Between who? Probably in less than a year they’re going to sign the final treaty.
If they sign that treaty…
BD: Between all of these great nations.
And it’s also tied to other events happening around 2012.
It’s a bipolar world. We have right now the western alliance of Because as we pass through the center-point of the galactic plane,
the Illuminati with, you know, Britain and America and all of there’s a great danger that we’re going to have geomagnetic
their allies. collapse of the magnetic field around the Earth. We’re also going
to have very, very high risk in the next several years of major
And on the other side we have the Shanghai Cooperation nucleus: Solar Mass Ejections that trigger off super-earthquakes and
Russia and China and all their sphere of influence. So it’s not a super-tsunamis.
unipolar world; it’s a bipolar world.
BR: Mm.
BR: Mm hm.
BD: A very, very high risk of that. OK?
BD: OK? And people need to know this. One of the things that
happened back in the spring of 1999, I was taken supernaturally, KC: That’s right.
actually through the ground, and saw the geological formations
and the oil at the southwest end of the Dead Sea. And there’s a BR: We’ve been told this independently.
lot of oil there -- 27.2 trillion barrels -- and it’s renewable. OK?
BD: Right. So people need to know that, you know, things that
KC: Wow. happen on the spiritual level also descend and have effects on the
energetic and the physical level. And as we get into wrong
BD: And it’s from the fault line that runs all the way from timelines and make wrong decisions corporately, we move along
Turkey right through Kenya to Lake Victoria. OK? And the Dead those timelines toward things that can be very destructive.
Sea itself was created when the oil came up. The magma…
Actually from the oil field, it mainly hit along that fault line when So what I tell people right now is, it’s not the time to flee, but
the Earth shifted back at the time of Abraham. It actually hit that there’s going to be incredible pain because they’re moving
fault line and caused an explosion equal to 500,000 Nagasakis. toward the Amero. I have already talked to people who are very
reliable they have already seen the Amero notes in Mexico City.
BR: Mm.
KC: So you’re here in Oceanside, California. Right?
BD: The guy who told me that was the head of the Israeli Oil
Company - okay? - who discovered all the oil fields in Zohar, all BD: Because I was told to be here.
the oil fields down in the Sinai Peninsula.
KC: And why? Could you…
KC: They’re actually not using that oil. Right?
BD: I know partially why. The way it happened was back in
BD: Afterwards, I was asked to go over there when I gave some February my wife, who is very intuitive too, she told me, she
of my presentations on that radio show with Stan Johnson, by says: Bill, we’re supposed to move.
Hayseed Stevens, and the Israeli Oil Company, and Ariel Sharon.
I was actually asked to go over to Israel and say a prayer at the
southwest end of the Dead Sea, at the bottom of Masada, which I I said: Well I don’t want to move. I’m comfortable. See, I didn’t
did on Rosh Hashanah right at sundown, and blow the shofar, really want to move from Denver to go back home but I was with
and actually say this Hebrew prayer. my mom before she died in October a year ago.
And so I went to sleep that night and I said: God, tell me why.
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And he did. He sent me an angel who told me: You’re going to go attention to me. So I’m getting very frustrated. So I walk toward
to Oceanside-Vista. the door and I just went right through it.
I said: I don’t want to go there. I don’t even know anybody there. So I turned right and I walked down the hall, and I saw the
There’s not even any jobs there or anything that I want to do nursery, and I saw these babies all bound up tight on their side,
there. Right? And he started laughing at me. Right? And cracking and the nurses were trying to keep them, you know, because if
jokes, because… one starts, they all start to cry. And they all had little different
colored blankets on them. So one baby started to cry and they all
People need to know that they’re watching us and they know the started to cry.
future that we don’t know. Right? And a lot of times we probably
wouldn’t do things we have to do, because some of the stuff we And all of a sudden everything started to fade into an inky black,
have to do is pretty painful and messy. a black so black you could feel it, and I felt like I was being
squenched through a pinhole. Right? And then all of a sudden I
BR: So what’s going down that brings you here? cried out, you know: God, where am I? Something terrible’s
happening. Right?
BD: Well, part of it is being here now so you could even do this
taping. And I saw a pinpoint of light and all of a sudden there was these
intersecting crimson lines, and I’m going down this tunnel, and I
say: It’s too fast, God! It’s too fast.
BR: OK.
And then all of a sudden I’m in this place of light, and across in
BD: Because there’s people here that have to wake up. They’re the other side of this space there’s a man standing there, you
going to have to hear this message to know that I’m called, know, almost glowing light. And he had a broad golden sash with
what’s actually called, “The Sons and Daughters of the Most a double-corded belt, and what I call brass-like sandals.
High God.” I’m one called “The Witnesses.”
And his forehead almost looked like there were puncture marks,
Now, I’m going to back this up a bit so you’ll get an and it was still swollen, and you could see where his beard was
understanding of just how important this meeting is tonight. plucked out. He had reddish hair just like a... The best way to
describe him would be a Norwegian, only he had olive-colored
In the first century, my family were in this 24-family cycle of the skin. He looked like a big, you know, rock-hard kinda 3-percent
Cohanim (also spelled Kohanim) that actually served in the body mass, kind of a carpenter with big hands and big knuckles.
temple at the time of Yeshua. And a prophecy was given directly And he looked like a guy that could, you know, make anything.
by Emmanuel, directly to my ancestor, that was written down in Right? Only there was a… they fell to the middle part of his arm
the first century and passed on all the way through to my Great- and leg.
uncle Michael, who died in the ’70s.
And as he appeared, there was a big chasm that appeared in these
That was supposed to be given to me ,because I was the eldest of clouds. There was all light all around. And I saw this little
the eldest. His brother thought he was the one called to give this wooden bridge.
word, which is to blow the trumpet of Elijah and actually tell
people about the coming of the new age, the new world that was And he said: Don’t cross the wooden bridge or the silver cord
going to come, a world of peace, where there wouldn’t be lack or will break.
all these things.
And I said: What’s that?
And that was passed down for almost 19 centuries. Right? That
person is me. OK?
And he says: I will bring it into your remembrance. Because, in
other words, you know everything, you just have to remember it.
And the reason why I know that is because at 8-1/2 when I had
my tonsil surgery done… I had a French surgeon who was
operating on me in Colchester County Hospital. They cut an I remember going down the tunnel of light. I can remember this
artery in my neck and I bled to death. OK? There’s a little cord that seemed to come out from the base of my brain and my
guillotine-style thing, and they pull the tonsils through with throat and it went down. It was like a cord of water. He called it
tongs, cut it off. And I had an aberrant artery and I bled to death. “the cord of living waters.” It looked like a neon cord that kind of
scintillated with light. Right?
And I went down the tunnel of light. And of course, the way it
happened is, all of a sudden I’m floating over the operating room And he said: If you go, you won’t be able to return.
table, I’m looking down, I can see this little boy, and I see blood
spurting everywhere. I say: Gee, that looks like me. I didn’t feel I said: Where am I?
any pain.
And he said: You’re at the gates of paradise or heaven, the
And all of a sudden I’m standing there and I’m walking around, eternal NOW where there is no past, no present or future but
trying to talk to the nurses and doctors and nobody would pay everything that you think immediately is. Right?
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So I said: Well, can you show me? And I heard a voice behind me that sounded like a deep voice,
one of the… what we could call “the angelic.” And he said:
So all of a sudden he’s holding me by his right hand, and I’m Behold the Voice of the Seven Thunders.
flying over the Golden City and I can see everything. And I
would say, because there’s no time and space, he showed me So the first time he said Behold he held his hand like this
worlds, beings, planets, civilizations, that I’m going to talk about [gestures] -- and I don’t know what that symbol means -- but he
a little bit today. held his index and middle finger and pointed down toward the
Earth and he said Behold.
But literally the amount of things he showed me about the
universe… The universe is an elemental particle in a larger And all of a sudden I saw fireballs rising off the Earth
universe. He told me about time-space. He told me about everywhere, but particularly across continental America, a lot of
quantum physics. He told me everything. That’s why I was about them.And I thought: Oh, this is a light show.
to go into nuclear physics at MIT. OK?
I mean, this is great, I’m a little kid here, and I’m still in my little
BR: Yep. hospital gown from having my surgery and I’m free-floating up
in space and I’m looking down over, and I see all these fireballs.
BD: He showed me beings that later on in life I’d say: Oh, I saw
that in Star Wars. OK? Because these things did exist. I saw And then he looked back at me sternly, like: You don’t get it.
them, and I was there, to their worlds.
Part of it is, our civilization has been conceived almost like in a
I can’t tell you how long it was, but in lineal time it had to be spiritual womb -- Earth -- and the timeline that we are selecting
many centuries that I spent there. It wasn’t a matter of a few corporately will decide whether or not we’re stillborn or aborted
minutes, like some people who have these near death or whether our civilization will move on to join the Ben Elohim,
experiences. I was there for an indeterminate period of time. It the Council of the Eschaton, the advanced civilizations that are
was so long, you know, and the amount of… and I only talk literally the incarnation of the Creator of the Universe, in
about a very tiny portion of what I know because it’s so beyond whatever form, whether they’re human, nonhuman, or other
the pale of human understanding, of civilizations and worlds and civilizations…
things that people cannot even grasp, so I don’t talk about it. So
all of a sudden… Because at some point we’re going to “have contact.” Well, how
do we have contact?
KC: OK, so you went to this place…
What I’ve presenting is that this is the transition point from “the
BC: So after… I’m back. And all of a sudden he’s back on his past, which is religion,” which is based on ignorance. You know,
side and now I’m back on my side and I’m thinking: OK. After like the Buddhists try to say -- a lot of people say I’m a Buddhist,
this indeterminate time I’m back on my side and I say: Look… but I’m not -- is that all pain and suffering is due to ignorance.
And then he spoke to me telepathically; he didn’t have to speak. The real problem is that, in a future where we have a total
And he said: Well, what is your decision? understanding of ourselves and the nature of the universe, there’s
not even room for religion because religion is like recipe cards.
And I said: I want to do the right thing. And I said: Well, if I’m It’s irrelevant. It’s like: This is my past history; these are my
going to go back, what am I to do? recipe cards. It’s dogma. It’s replacing the ever-present
knowledge of what is right or wrong. Because you don’t need to
be told. Right?
And all of a sudden he’s holding me with his hand again, and I’m
giddy. We must be 400 miles above the Earth and I look down.
BR: Sure.
This time he had on a thing, a tallit, and I didn’t know what a
tallit was because I was raised a little Roman Catholic boy. KC: Right. But let’s get back…
Right? So I saw this tallit and it was splattered with blood on it,
this tallit, which is a prayer shawl. And I looked down over the BD: Right. So the key to why Israel is so important is because
Earth and I could see the edge of the horizon shimmering out Israel is an object-lesson for the whole planet. Israel is, if you
across the dark of space. want to call it, purposely set up to be the nexus decision point of
civilization.
And he said: Behold my blue jewel, the Earth. Right?
BR: OK.
And I said: It’s alive!
BD: And how that is handled determines whether or not our
He said: Yes! You know. Right?In other words, the Earth is a civilization moves forward. If you look at America right now, the
living thing. Right? trillion dollar debt of these wars, in the last years since 911.
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The people who put the bombs in the building were under orders BD: He was leading people away from religion to relationship.
from Project Omega, which is, you know, the overseeing agency OK?
of all the secret agencies on the planet.
KC: Absolutely.
BR: Run by the Vatican.
BR: OK. And any of the great leaders, even if they only had a
BD: The ones who put the bombs in the buildings were contract. tiny portion of that, tried to teach similar pieces of it, you know,
They could have been any secret agency but they happened to be whether you’re talking about the prophets or people who are
very experienced Israeli Mossad nuclear agents who put the spiritual leaders of the native peoples, or in China or elsewhere,
nuclear bombs in the World Trade Center. OK? they’re talking about… They all basically had a portion of that
truth.
Now they do that because they want to have a hatred of Jewish
people. And I’m not an anti-Semite -- I have Jewish blood, The greatest portion that was ever released was the fullness of the
Iranian blood, Armenian blood, etcetera, so I have… Father in the Flesh, Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus, which is why the
whole of the Old Testament and New all point back toward him,
KC: Why would the Mossad want hatred of Jewish people? because he was a great teacher.
BD: It’s part of their dialectic of control. Now what’s happening in our world right now, is that everything
happening in our world -- financial collapse, control matrix,
technologies -- everything is all centered around Israel.
BR: Mm hm. Everything. OK?
BD: Just like the death of millions of Jews in the Second World In fact, the two great empires of the Shanghai Cooperation
War was actually at the hands of not only the Sabbatians who Organization and the Western Empire are all meeting there, and
want to cleanse the whole, if you want to call it, the whole people the goal of the Teutonic Knights, which are the Knights of Malta,
of Israel of anyone who “had any religious Torah belief in a is to have a great temple there where they can set up their world
Creator God.” So they had an anti-messiah, an anti-God, a we- government from their temple. Weird, hey?
are-God.
But it’s happening because it’s happening in the spiritual realm
The real purpose of the Kabbalah, if you want -- the highest level, above, and as above/below, and it’s also descending and
which is the highest level of all Masonry, is Kabbalah. Right? -- happening on the physical realm.
is that we are… The revelation is: You are the Luciferic-Satanic
power. You don’t need to go to a higher God; you are god.
Because we have to answer this question correctly, which is: To
transcend technology, we need to transcend religion to a spiritual
BR: OK. Now… relationship. And we need to understand that when God is
speaking, whether it’s through the ancient peoples of Israel, or
BD: Which is very different, right? the Hopi Indians or whatever, he’s speaking to them, and they
only have their portion.
BR: If this all about Israel being an example, right in center stage
for everyone to look at and everyone to learn from, with all kinds They have to understand God is speaking in a language of
of things at stake, what can the ordinary person do to influence history, a language to their spirits, a language of knowing things.
these choreographed events? Or, if they do not transcend spiritually, they’re going to die
together.
The people watching this, who are even very aware, very well
informed, some of them the most aware, most informed people KC: So what these people can do that are listening to this is
around, they’ll be saying: Well what can I do? This is already set basically reconnect with the Creator.
in train.
BD: And also stop buying into the Armageddon Night idea;
BD: Well, the real issue… It comes down to one real simple we’re going to have a rapture; we have to be bathed with fire; the
thing. It comes down to: What are they going to do personally to Luciferic idea, somehow that I can decide what is good or evil.
come out of religion? OK? Religion is the toxic poison of the
modern world. And people say: Well, you’re talking in terms of That is the foolishness of the “super-scientist,” the technician, the
spirituality like a prophet, like Israel. But people, understand, Illuminati, the people in these Black-Op projects that think that
Yeshua himself, Jesus was not religious. they can decide for the rest of the planet.
BR: Mm hm. Of course. Surely we’re deciding as we’re building underground bases so
we’ll survive as we go into the galactic plane. They’re not going
BD: He was a spiritual leader. OK? to survive, because I can guarantee you that the Council will not
allow them to survive, no matter what they do, if there’s not a
KC: Yes. transition of their heart.
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It’s the exact same message that Yeshua Ha'Mashiach Jesus gave The Jews now… and the Jewish people are by and large mostly
which is: Unless your hearts are changed, your world will die. agnostic, or what I call… They belong to synagogues that are
OK? basically either spiritually dead because they don’t connect with
the true reality of this.
KC: Yes.
There’s a very tiny fraction of real Torah Jews who understand
BR: And that’s what’s at stake right now. what’s going on, and there are some there who are Rabbis who
know what’s going on and are fearful because they see the
coming second holocaust. And I went through Yad V’Shem.
BD: That’s what’s at stake. We’re talking about not just the
death of the person that they call “omnicide,” not just the death of
the family, not just the death of the nation, not just the death of And it’s not just the holocaust of the death of the last of the Jews.
mankind or every living thing, but the death of the spiritual It’s the death of all humanity that’s coming.
entities that are incarnated into the beings here on this world.
And then they’re conspiring this through their transdimensionals,
It’s literally a spiritual abortion that’s being done on the planet, the serpentine, these civilizations out there that are hell-bent on
and if you see the transdimensionals, the Satanic/Luciferic destroying mankind.
transdimensionals, they have harassed, and intervened, and
abducted. They’re conspiring with these world leaders, who are literally
their minions -- George Bush Sr., and George Soros, and the
And people say: Well, why does the abductions phenomenon Blackstone Group, and all those other organizations are just their
seem so malicious? It’s because they’re demonic. I mean, you minions.
might not use the term demonic from the Bible, but in every
culture you’ll find these things going on. And many of them think: Oh, I’m going to get life extension
technology. I’m going to survive whatever’s coming. I’m going to
And they’re intensifying, including you know… Not only are our get a 50,000-acre farm in Paraguay. Lies!
vehicles up there, like the TR3 which are these giant triangles,
and the Aurora and other ones, but there’s a ton of these other Or: I’m going to survive in these underground places. When
vehicles because they’re here watching, for the show. They’re they’re hit with a force 11 or 12 earthquake that will shatter all
here for the show. their tunnels, no they’re not. They’re going to be entombed into
those places.
They’re here in the birthing room waiting to see if there’s going
to be a delivery or an abortion of the planet. OK? That’s what’s BR: It’s a good message to give the guys from the Black-Ops
going on. OK? who will be watching this.
KC: Yes. BD: Right. They need to understand that I walk. They can’t stop
me. I can instantly walk into spirit, into any of their places
BD: And they need to grasp that it’s not going to happen by a without any way of stopping me. OK?
change in politics, or a president, or monetary policy. It’s going
to happen with a change of the heart. BR: Mm.
For example, let me give you one example of solution. Why do BD: We are The Sons of the Most High God. It’s not just me --
we have a world that can allow usury, which is interest? Why do it’s all of us -- and Daughters of the Most High God. We need to
we allow derivatives? Why do we allow a group of people who start taking our authority back, because agnosticism, atheism is
can control and manipulate money that causes starvation, where just another form of Luciferianism. It is “I am God; I can decide
60% of the cost of food is due to manipulation? And then they what’s good or evil.”
make bad policies suppressing energy technology, so that people
literally can’t truck the food in third-world countries, so they And we need to get away from all religions, and enter back into
can’t make themselves independent, and they starve to death? spirituality with the Creator. We need to fall down on our face
and say: Yes, I am here because I signed up for this.
Or in places like North Korea, we demonize people so that they
then literally exhume their own dead and eat them, which is what BR: Now, here’s a question. This will probably be watched by a
they’ve had to do. OK? few tens of thousands of people.
And people do not know the depths of how far this is going to go BD: Right.
unless there’s a transformation of the heart. It has to happen
immediately.
BR: A few tens of thousands of wonderful people, and every
single one of those people is critically important here.
And I’m called as a Witness of Ephraim, and I’m called up today
to be a Witness of Yehuda. OK?
BD: Right.
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BR: Is that enough? It’s a tiny fraction of humanity. BR: And what’s the time scale? What would the time scale be
for this?
BD: Yeah. The real issue, and it’s almost exactly like the
message that was given by Yeshua, Jesus. His message… He had BD: I don’t have all the answers at this point in time.
a message that was given to the general…
BR: Sure. Give your best guess.
Just like when I do my regular radio show, I talk about: Hey!
Don’t vaccinate your child, because these vaccines have been BD: But I can give you some of the signs. The first thing. . . The
determined by globalists that want to poison your children with signs basically are this: When they divide the city of Jerusalem,
vaccines, and I show them the technical truth. they -- Jewish Rabbis, and this is Rabbinical Law -- have to have
all the elements, the Kalal, the Ashes of the Red Heifer.
But it’s harder for them to accept the fact that the vaccines, like
in sub-Saharan Africa, have plasmids to destroy and cause They have to have the Cohanim, and all the instruments. They
infertility. Or the Guardisil vaccine now. can set up a tabernacle overnight. They have everything, Sea
Cows, and curtains and everything. They can put it on the
I got contacted by Desiree Rover just Friday night. She has a Temple Mount in one evening. OK?
radio show in the Netherlands. She used my material and many
others to kind of reference in her radio show to tell people: Hey, But once they start that sacrifice, which has to happen on the
this is a policy by globalists to sterilize little girls and destroy Feast of David, that starts the final clock ticking. That clock will
their health. Right? start on that day. And exactly 1230 days later is the Feast of
Purim, which goes back to hamen.
And they’re testing vaccines on populations that have no idea of
what they’re signing up for. And some of them get multiple And people say: Well, why would these things be encoded? Like
vaccines and they’re malnourished and it destroys their health the Bible coded in the Bible? It’s because you’re hearing Voice
and kills them. Many of them die. and Intentions from the highest Creator of the universe that’s
speaking down through the higher dimensional planes to our
KC: Yes. world that imprints on a supernatural book that transcends time
and space, which is in the Bible.
BD: It’s very hard for them to conceive that and then to go to the
next stage. If they listen to all my shows and they listen to this That’s why the Bible code’s there. People say: Well, why are
message… those things there? It’s there because it transcends the
dimensional planes of time-space because it’s beyond time-space.
I released three chapters of the scroll, and there’s twelve chapters
altogether. The first chapter I released in 1999, which was a BR: Yes. But the Illuminati know all this. They’ve already got
warning against America, which I delivered to 42 cities in Israel. this.
The second chapter of the scroll I released in 2005 at Pastor BD: Well, they’re trying to steer the timeline away from its
Butch Paugh’s Conference. And the third chapter of the scroll, intention. Because the future is not solid -- it’s liquid.
which was tied to my talk at Conspiracy-Con 2008, I released this
May. BR: Sure.
I didn’t get a chance to read the scroll but if you go to BD: We have a role to play here. And when I was brought to the
ClayandIron.com you can pull up those PowerPoints and those Council, they were saying, you know, you need to take this
scrolls. And I’m going to have that, as well as what’s called the seriously.
“Prayer of the Twelve Stones.”
It’s not written. It’s not determined at this point in existence, or
People need to grasp this in their spirit. It needs to ring the bell, revelation of the spirit, what will be that pathway, whether we
just like when you go to a Buddhist temple and you can feel the will go into a birthing room and have a wonderful delivery of
vibration of the truth. It’s something spoken truthful. mankind, or whether we will have an annihilation of the human
race. Or something in between, where a great deal of destruction
What we’re speaking tonight is not just wisdom and not just occurs and a tiny remnant survives.
knowledge. It’s what I call spirit words. It’s words that need to
ring their spirit no matter what religious background or lack of it, KC: So why are you here in Oceanside, for example?
to know how desperately bad the times are.
BD: I don’t completely know. I know one of the purposes is to
We’re not just looking at a depression here. We’re looking at the be here.
prelude to a financial collapse that’s a prelude to a false peace
treaty that is the startup of a guaranteed thermonuclear,
biological, chemical and scalar war that will destroy all life on
this planet.
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And there’s a lot of high-level Masons say: Well, I haven’t even

heard of that. Because they think they’re the ascended ones. They
have no idea what they’re serving.
BR: Hm.
BD: They have no idea. They need to repent right now. And, as I
say, if we can pray -- and this is something we have to do. And
the most powerful thing we have is, I call it fore-give. The word
foregive means to create.
To foregive means we need to pray for George Soros, who is

behind the Blackstone Group and 911, and the current derivatives
crises that’s bringing the world down to a world and regional
banks, and trade zones that are going to cause the death of
millions and set the groundwork afoot for a pandemic.
Part Three
Because when starvation occurs, the population gets weakened,
Bill Deagle (BD): The key idea is this: You need to have a doing and it’s the perfect groundwork, or cover, for a pandemic which
in the spirit before you have a knowing. In other words, you need they’ve already weaponized.
to contact the Higher Self to say why... I’m a human-being not a
human-doing. BR: Has that already been released? Or not released?
In other words, you need to be where you’re supposed to be. You BD: There are several avenues by which it can happen. Back
need to be in the position where you’re supposed to be, and then in… How long ago is it now? Gee… back in about 1995 I was
the things just unfold. praying and I was told by the angel that I was supposed to go to
Europe. And I said: Well, where? And the Lord said: You’re
Bill Ryan (BR): Yes. going to go to Zurich.
BD: And this is why all these things have happened to me. And And I said: Well, I don’t know anybody in Zurich. So I had some
people say it’s impossible that all these things could happen to friends that were Canadians, that actually were in Halifax, Nova
one person. I say: Well, it happens because I hear and do. Scotia, at the time and they had gone back to Austria, to Lake
Literally. Constance.
As you know, the sister of Moses went before the council of the And I said: Well, I’ll contact them… the Santoses. I said, you
people back in the ancient times and said, you know: Are we an know: You guys know Zurich? [They said]: Oh, yeah. We lived
ear, and not only prophets? there are awhile and we love it.
And the voice of god spoke through the pillar of fire and said: So I started going through and googling, you know, checking out
There is not a man on Earth, hand to hand, eye to eye, mouth to things, trying to find out which organization. The Lord said:
mouth, who does not speak as another man speaks to his brother. You’re supposed to contact these people here at Human Life
International. So I speak to God, literally, and he tells me.
That’s the kind of relationship I have with God. I literally can
talk and hear him instantly, [snaps fingers] like that. So I contact them. I call this guy and he calls me back from
Zurich. And in a very German accent he says: Wonderful! We’d
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Mm hm. love to have you come over and speak to our board.
So we arranged tickets. We go and visit our friends in Austria,

BD: But people need to know I’m not any better than anyone
else, but I am... If you knew my whole history, you’d say: Why is and we go over to Zurich. And I told them what I was told, you
this man called to do this? know -- literally told -- to tell them about was the cybernetic
super-soldier program, human genetic engineering, and the
chimeric monstrosities they’re making in underground facilities.
I’m called to do this because I’ve seen the face of evil. I’ve seen And to speak against abortion and euthanasia, and selective
it not only in myself, I’ve seen it in others. I have chosen light, abortions which are... 93% of the abortions on Earth are female.
not to be a follower of darkness.
BR: Hm.
I’ve had numerous opportunities. I’ve had an opportunity to
become a Breve Brother, a Knight of Malta, as early as this year,
earlier this year. I’ve had all kinds of threats. I’ve had the Pindar BD: OK? And so, after 2-1/2 hours of me speaking to a board of
scientists -- giant boardroom, you know, 24 doctors and
come directly to me to say, you know, to be his replacement as
the CEO of Earth, Inc. and the Druidic Council. scientists, whatever, the International Board of HLI -- they said:
Now you sit down, doctor. We give you things.
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And they went into another room and brought this stack, about a BR: Yes.
foot of documents. I said: Well, what is this? They said: You stay
here. And they gave me some more water and whatever, and they BD: OK? And all these things, all my experiences from my life,
lectured to me for two hours. were laid out so that I would be what I am now, a beaten piece of
steel like a Samurai sword…
And they had documents there of the weaponization of the avian
flu, smuggled out of the World Health Organization in Basel. KC: Hm.
Actual documents. OK? That they had got gene bioengines, and
they had actually resurrected the corpses of people that died of
the H1N1 back in 1918, that they were paid for by the BD: …hardened enough for the truth and willing to tell the
Rothschilds… All this stuff! people the truth, to tell people that you need to make the right
decisions. You cannot believe your pastor, your rabbi, your
Buddhist master, your ascended masters, your ET contactees.
I’m totally in shock! I mean, these guys are telling me this stuff. You need to contact your Self, the spirit of the Most High God.
I’m thinking: Why am I in Zurich?
You need to analyze what’s going on in foreign policy and
And after they finished that, which was about 6 inches, then they money. For example, money, as Socrates says, only means
gave me documents, that they had these plasmid vaccines that exchange. Why are we willing to do spending cuts that will starve
were injected every month. And they were drawing blood from people? Why are we going to bail-out 700-billion dollars to
women in sub-Saharan Africa, testing to see if they create banksters that are gambling on the future, that’re going to
antibodies against human chorionic gonadotropin to sterilize guarantee that we’re going to have a crash and the death of
them. civilization?
And I had another 4 inches of documents that showed that AIDS BR: Hm.
was completely weaponized by cross-genetically engineering the
Visna virus with other viruses. They gave me the actual
documents! BD: Why? And they know that starvation leads to war,
pestilence, and the crash of civilization. And it’s very fragile.
And they’re purposely bringing this about.
So I’m sitting there kind of freaked out, you know, wondering...
And of course we went to dinner afterward with these doctors.
And they said: Now you bring all this – I brought it all back with This is the start... This phase right now, with the collapse of the
me, of course -- to North America. banks, this is the start toward world government, world bank,
regional currencies, chipping the population. And they’re ready,
probably by next year.
But the thing is, back in… You see how God puts me in all these
positions. Back in 1974 I had finished a year of medical school
and someone tried to recruit me from a U.S. government agency I’ve already calculated, and have been told by my sources, both
to take a year off medical school and go to Uganda for a special natural and classified, as well as supernatural, there’s about a
virus project. Because I had worked… 30% chance of an avian pandemic this year, and a 70% chance
next year, and 100% chance the year after.
Before I went into medicine, I was working on my honors degree
and I finished my Ph.D. research project in 5 months, although I BR: When you say this year, you mean in the next 12 months?
didn’t write the thesis, for Dr. Robert Brown, who was one of the
doctors working on the T-virus project in Bethesda. So I was BD: No, between now and the end of December [2008].
already a bio-weaponeer. OK?
BR: Really? OK.
KC: Mm hm.
BD: That’s very disturbing. OK? But we’re talking about going
BR: And you turned that down? up to 70%, which means next year we have a very grave
possibility of a thermonuclear attack at least on the Bashear
BD: I turned it down. I told them there was no way I was going reactor and 450 targets. And a counter-response which is going to
to do it. But I had recalled this from ’74 to 1997 when they gave release a radiation cloud and cut off the world to the Strait of
me all those documents, and here it was... Hormuz.
I was also the whistle-blower that blew the whistle that the And I was taken in 1988 -- one of my very first visions -- I was
Factor-8 that was used for hemophiliacs... I was the main whistle- taken up high above Saudi Arabia, in the spirit, and I actually
blower for the Canadian government and those lawsuits that got looked down. And I looked and I could see the carrier groups all
all those doctors, that they were getting it and combining all these assembling.
Factor-8s…
And this was 1988, twenty years ago. And I looked down, and
Because I had a pile of hemophiliacs when I was practicing in the angel told me, he says: Watch this place. Because this is
Calgary that were dying of AIDS, specifically because they gave where it will all start -- the Strait of Hormuz.
them purposely-contaminated Factor-8.
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BR: And how close are we to that now? They’ve got the S-300 anti-aircraft system; they’ve got the
Yakontz hypersonic cruise missile; they’ve got EMP weapons;
BD: We are so close we can feel the breath of the dragon. People and they’ve armed to the teeth Syria and Iran; and they are
need to pull back… And none of these people that call building the largest outside-of-Russia naval base right now in
themselves candidates for president that are in the two leading Syria.
parties are safe. Neither one.
BR: Yes. And they’re poking the Bear with a sharp stick.
Obama is backed by Zbigniew Brzezinski, that wrote The Grand
Chessboard, that was the head of the Security Council, that was BD: They’re poking the Bear with a sharp stick. So, what we’ve
one of the CFR members in Georgetown University. He is got to do is, people need to get in a panic here. It’s not a matter of
personally determined to directly confront, with thermonuclear voting for Palin and McCain, or voting for Obama. Either
and other weapons, Russia. OK? alternative guarantees a thermonuclear war.
BR: Yes. Yep. BR: Yeah. Is this election going to happen to schedule, or could
something happen to it?
BD: We have Joe Biden, who released this information just in
the last two weeks. This guy is very clever but very evil. And BD: It really doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Even if it’s
he’s directly involved with the cover-up of the Israeli Purdue delayed 6 months, you know, it doesn’t matter if McCain gets in
OxyContin scam, where there’s a Purdue Pharma plant in Israel there and Palin.
distributing billions of dollars of illegal OxyContin in America.
And we have the proof of it. OK? This is not conjecture. The thing that I’m particularly concerned about is… Someone
like McCain, if he lives long enough, which I’m very concerned
BR: Yep. about, because he’s had a third recurrence of a melanoma. He’s
had a lymphatic spread. And I know a lot of… I do consulting,
BD: Then we’ve got McCain, who spent 5-1/2 years under the helping people integrate with treatments for cancer all around the
control of a Russian mind-control scientist, the top Russian mind- world.
control scientist. And I heard him on the debate. And actually I
think he won the debate against Obama, because Obama, if he’s Unless he’s getting some of the new classified anti-cancer
not reading a teleprompter, is not that smart. therapies with some of the people that I know in Europe or
elsewhere -- like Dr. Tulio Simoncini and Dr. Munoz in Tijuana,
McCain was sharper and he showed more presidential… But and other places, where you get IPT and so on -- he’s a dead man.
McCain is determined that he’s going to invade -- as well as
Obama -- he’s going to invade Pakistan and get to the Waziristani This cancer or another cancer is going to come back and kill him,
nukes. He’s going to expand NATO directly on the back doorstep and he’ll probably die in his term. And we’re not talking about a
of the Russians. It’s going to piss off the Russians. And the 30% chance. We’re probably talking 80% chance in the first two
Russians have got some very, very nasty weapons. years of his term, if he does become president, that President
Palin will take over.
BR: Yes, and they’re pissed off already.
BR: With what consequences?
BD: They’re very pissed off, and they personally don’t want to
do this. They’d much rather negotiate and get richer. Right? BD: Well, President Palin doesn’t, I don’t think, has the... To me
she’s pro-life which is positive for a lot of Christian rights. [Ed.
BR: Sure. Note: the political right] She’s going to drag a lot of votes that
way. But in terms of her ability to have a rational judgment, with
the extreme religious background that she has, is going to be very
BD: The Russians are not interested in this. But the people disturbing.
behind the American government, the Satanic Luciferian
Reptilians, they’re absolutely determined to bring this agenda
toward a final culmination, a thermonuclear war. OK? They’re Now, I’m for the pro-life issue and I’m for the fact she’s got
determined to do it. spirituality. But when you have religion and it’s clouded that
Israel can do no wrong? That’s frickin’ dangerous.
KC: That’s with Russia.
BR: Yes. She says that Iraq is God’s war.
BD: And they’re pulling Russia… As it says in Ezekiel 38 and
39: I shall pull you with hooks in your jaw. Oh Rosh, chief prince BD: Right. And that’s really dangerous. And you can’t say Israel
Gog of Meshech, Tubal and Rosh. can do no wrong when the whole nation of Israel is Sabbatian
Luciferian Satanist Jews. OK? Who do not worship the God of
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and have nothing to do with she
And you know what that is? Gog is the name of a Hebrew man. thinks…
Rosh: Russia. Meshech: Moscow. Tubal: Tublosk. This is Russia.
They’ve armed to the teeth all these nations.
And they laugh at her and think that this Christian fool is going to
back us no matter what, and allow us to attack Iran.
195
BR: Yeah. And she’s playing straight into their hands. They’ve got to start saying: Hey, we’re not going to participate
with a country that’s going to have a thermonuclear war with
BD: Right. She’s playing right into their hands. And, of course, Iran. We’re not going to…
they’re using her as a card to manipulate. And on the other hand,
we’ve got Obama and there’s a trail of strange things going on You know, as Carlin said: If you vote for one of these blankey-
behind him. blank guys or this blankey-blank guy, you can’t complain when
either one of them starts a thermonuclear war.
KC: And you know this because...
KC: OK. But actually people are left with that choice.
BD: I’ve got so many contacts you would not believe it. I can’t...
I’ve spent a lot of time on the... Obama is a, if you want to call it, BD: They aren’t. They can actually… The thing is that I think
messianic figure. we need to transcend politics. We need to transcend religion.
KC: Mm hm. We need to stop thinking that if we make the right decision on
the right leader we’ve solved the problem. The transformation is
BD: This is a very dangerous man. In fact, of all of the options not at the leadership level of the White House.
we have, Obama is the most dangerous of all of them.
KC: Absolutely.
BR: OK. So that’s the most-worst version.
BD: It’s not even at the capitol building of the state. It’s not even
BD: He’s the most-worst version. Even Biden would be better. at the town council. It’s in us. We have to decide that we’re no
Biden might actually have a clue, even though he’s a bit of a longer going to participate in these things. We’re not going to
criminal. participate in churches or pastors or politicians doing these
things. We’re not going to participate in a financial collapse
that’s going to starve millions, and start a pandemic. We’re not
BR: Yeah. going to participate in doing those things that…
KC: But our understanding is that Biden probably won’t make it KC: OK. Well, but nuts and bolts and on a spiritual level, their
to the… choice is clear, I would say.
BR: Is it possible that Hillary could be back on the ticket? BD: Yeah. But they have to make hard decisions. See, those
decisions are so hard that most people don’t want to swallow that.
BD: It’s possible. It’s possible. So they want to either attack me or any other messenger giving
this message.
BR: Have you heard that?
KC: Sure.
BD: The thing is that Hillary, other than Obama, is the most
scary individual I’ve ever met. She is very brilliant, incredibly BD: They don’t want to make the tough choices to say: Hey, I’m
evil, and her family, the Rodhams, have been Luciferian Satanists not going to participate with what they’re planning on doing. I’m
for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. She has a lot of stuff going to make certain that I’m not going to vote.
attached to her.
I’ll give you an example. What happens if nobody went out to
BR: So what’s the way out of all that crap? vote? What if everybody said: Hey, we know both these guys,
either party, is going to support the 700-billion dollar bailout.
BD: The way out of it is to just get the population woke up, to
pray for the leaders, to get the people woke up. If we just get a Because, you know, in the next two weeks, long before the
tiny minority of the body of mankind to wake up to the truth of election, they’re going to sign this damn thing. And if they sign
this… it, they guarantee the -- you could call it the controlled demolition
of the economy of the world, and the de-evolution to the “mark
Whether they think they’re atheists or agnostics or Jews or of the beast,” which is coming. You know?
Christians, they’ve got to stop being Armageddonites. They’ve
got to stop being Sabbatian Jews. They’ve got to stop being I’ve walked personally through the array, and either party is
“religious”, thinking: Oh well, it’s just karma being worked out, going to guarantee that. Now, whether it’s Obama and his
in their Buddhism. Right? messianic vision, or it’s McCain and Sarah Palin with her
Armageddonite vision, it doesn’t matter. The devil will move
They’ve got to stop all that foolishness and pick up their septre forward like a snake pushing itself on its own belly.
and say: We craft the future. We’re going to determine whether
or not mankind is going to survive what’s coming. And they’ve KC: OK. We’ve also gotten information about October [2008].
got to start making decisions. And I’m sure you’ve heard Half Past Human.
196
BD: Yes, I can tell you what... Yeah. BR: Yep.
BR: We have thirteen different, actually fourteen now, different BD: So they need a thing like the Katrina thing in one or another
data-points, lined up in October… city or two or three cities. Maybe they need an event like…
They’ve been working on this idea of blowing up dirty bombs or
BD: Yeah. Well, you’re correct. Somewhere between the 7th and nukes in two or three cities.
15th of October. And I get the same feeling.
BR: If…
BR: Right.
BD: I’ve got the long and short list.
BD: A lot of the time I don’t know... Like I’ll go to bed at night,
wake up in cold sweats, get visions… BR: Yeah.
KC: Yes. BD: On both the long and the short list -- and I happen to be
living very near to one of those. The very top of both lists is Los
BD: ...see, you know, people crying. I see starvation. I see Angeles.
privation. I see darkness, a lot of very bad visions, very jumbled
up, and I can’t tell you what it is specifically. But I can tell you KC: Yes.
what makes sense to me if I just take my intellectual viewpoint.
BD: They’re number one.
BR: Yeah.
KC: I think so, too.
BD: I think we’re going to have a financial crash.
BD: Chicago, Detroit, all those three cities are on both long and
BR: OK. short lists. OK?
BD: I think the financial crash is going to be so severe and so BR: It feels to us that there is a violent event coming up.
painful that the grocery store shelves are going to be completely
empty in the very, very near future. I mean, it could only last for BD: Yes, there is a very violent event coming up. And I see a
maybe a few weeks, but it’s going to frighten people so badly, financial collapse, and I see, at the very latest by next year, a
that no matter what the government presents to them -- in terms thermonuclear explosion in a U.S. city, one or more cities, and
of world government, regional currency, the Amero, whatever -- civil war in America. OK?
they’re going to take it.
And then a period of false peace after that. And a period of, you
And then, when they can go back to buying their latte, and go to know, them setting up this temple thing and kind of scaring the
the movie theater, and put gas in their car at a reasonable price, crap out of the population of the planet.
they’re going to say: Thank God we’ve got this.
BR: Yep.
KC: Right.
BD: And then I see this time period of 1230, literally marked off.
BD: But I can tell you right now, what I see is empty shelves. Because, remember now, this is a religious ceremony. You see,
the Bible isn’t just a thing for the Jews or for the Christians. It’s a
BR: And martial law. Luciferic ceremony.
BD: And martial law. Remember now, martial law will be BR: Yeah.
almost like a theater. It’ll be on... They brought back an entire
division. I posted up the article on Clay and Iron, and the dates. BD: And they’re marching through this as a clock, as an anti-
So if you go to ClayandIron.com, I posted up that article. type to what they see happening. So that the globalists and the
Illuminati use this almost as a religious ceremony to kind of snub
They brought an entire division back to America to be the face of the Creator of the universe. And say: No, we’re God.
permanently stationed for civil defense inside the United States. So that’s why this timepiece is being marched on in Israel.
That’s 650,000 battle-hardened troops, with heavy artillery and
weapons, that’ll control the civilian population. They don’t need BR: Hm.
to be in their home country.
BD: OK? And when people grasp that… The reason why I’m
The media that’s on that screen there [television], I call Satan- going calling you up today is because I don’t know who he’s, but
vision. OK? In that box. What they need to do is they need to there is another witness. OK? He’s the Witness of Yehudah, the
frighten people into accepting whatever the agenda is. witness of Judah. He’s a Torah Jew who does know this.
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And the greatest prophecy that was ever given by Yeshua for judgment. It’s the end of the road. And if they don’t turn back
Ha’Masaich was The Prodigal Son, that the Ephraim, which is now...
the 10 tribes, would be hauled away, scattered over the Earth by
the Assyrians, and that they would return, and they would bring And that means all those ones who are called as prophets, of
on their shoulders, literally the ability to know how to protect the every race and tongue and people, you need to come out with a
Jews on Earth. grand chorus and sing the song, as it says in the Bible, the Song
of Moses. You need to sing the song of humanity that is a
Because the holocaust is coming, Jews. You’ve got to know that spiritual body that knows these things. We intuitively know it.
there is a holocaust coming to kill every Jew on Earth, Sabbatian
or not. When I talked to John Boncore, whose name is Splitting the Sky,
who’s a Mohawk prophecy-giver -- and he said this on air just
And the reason is they have to expunge the Earth of any this week.
knowledge of a Creator God. It doesn’t matter if you’re a
Buddhist, or you’re a native Hopi or whatever. They’ve got to get He said there was a prophecy given, you know, untold centuries
rid of them because there’s a portion of truth that was given ago, that a great, a young Mohawk would come and give a
specifically by the Creator to the Jews that other peoples did not prophetic warning to the peoples of Earth.
receive in fullness.
Well, he has, better than any other person, better than Phil Berg,
Just like there’s a Bible code in the Bible. Why is that code in the or anyone else that I’ve heard, put the financial trail of blood-
Bible? Why is it not in some Hopi things, or some tablets from money behind 911 together.
some other civilization? It was there because it was set up as an
object-lesson to ask of the entirety of mankind: How will you
deal with Israel? People need to grasp this, that if we don’t get back in touch with
spirit instead of religion, we’re going to all die, killing each other
for religion.
How do you deal with it? As it says in Jeremiah, you know:
There will be a firepot burning all the nations around it. They’re
literally setting a detonator to blow up the Earth. KC: Mm hm.
BR: Hm. BD: And for different financial agendas. Or we’re going to save
the planet because of carbon dioxide, which is a lie. You know,
we’re polluting ourselves to death, so we won’t even be able to
BD: And they have weapons that can. They’ve got anti-matter reproduce two generations from now.
weapons that can turn the Earth into shards, like, you know, like
one of these planets that died in the ancient conflicts that they
talk about, that was destroyed and created the asteroid belt And it’s all by design. It’s designed that even if we didn’t have a
between Mars and Earth. pestilence or nuclear war, or whatever, that life on this planet is
soon going to die. We are a dying planet.
BR: Yeah.
If you’re visiting here as an archeologist from another distant
time and another space to visit Earth, you’d say: These people are
BD: OK? suicidal. They kill their prophets, just like it says in the Bible,
you know, between the brazen laborer and the holy of holies.
BR: Oh, yeah.
I’m called to speak as Moses and as Elijah, to blow the trumpet,
BD: They have those weapons now. They have things that you which I’ve done on my show. And God has given me a voice to
just can’t imagine that can be done that could blow the Earth, speak to them and warn them. We are at the time of The End.
literally, into tiny fragments. And that’s why my other website’s called clay and iron.
BR: Mm hm. They need to know: Come out of Babylon, which means come
out of confusion. Come out of religion. Come back in
BD: OK? But whether we’ll survive is not a geopolitical thing of relationship.
who we vote for or whether or not we’re going to kind of will our
minds. Like, you know, some of the people figure if we just will Stop believing lies. And the first lie is what you are. You’re not a
it, it’s all going to happen. biological machine. You’re not an advanced piece of slime that’s
evolved. You’re an infinite being that has the right to choose to
It’s going to require some painful decisions on our part to say: have life and to live it abundantly for thousands of years,
Hey, we’re going to march in every city capital of every city. literally, you know, and have contact with advanced civilizations,
We’re going to march in every church to throw down their and to survive, and to thrive.
dogma -- which is their “am-god”. They’re not God.
But if you don’t choose life today… Just like Moses, when he set
They have to hear the Voice of the Creator, whatever religion the peoples between Mount Ebal and Mount Gerizim, we as a
they are, whatever spirituality, whatever agnosticism. If they civilization will die.
don’t, they’re not going to survive, because this Earth is marked
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BR: Now, stepping back into the Black-Ops world, you will BR: Exactly. Yep.
know that we’ve been contacted by time-traveling future humans
with a message. BR: And we aren’t. We are actually in the image of the Creator.
We are actually the, if you want to call it, the incarnation of the I
BD: Right. AM that said: Let there be light in the universe, as human beings
in this world.
BR: And it’d be interesting to hear your take on this. But our
understanding is that there are alternative timelines. Not all of And there’s other beings of other types that are across the cosmos
them are catastrophic. that are incarnations of the same I AM. And they’ve come to the
knowledge that they are and have that responsibility to be, in a
BD: Right. sense, midwives to Earth in the birthing-room of this civilization.
BR: We do have choices. KC: Yes.
BD: Sure we do. BD: We’re literally in the birthing-room now.
BR: It’s not a done deal. BR: Yes. But, what do you know, and what have you heard, of
those messages from future humans who presumably are
altruistically trying to help in some way? Because they’re looking
BD: Oh, absolutely. back through their own history saying, you know: Don’t do that
stuff because this happened to us. Or some other message. What
BR: And what do you know of those contacts, those messages, do you know about this?
and what opportunities we have, and how those messages have
been acted upon by the people who’ve received them? BD: You have to use a great deal of discernment. Because one of
the things about alternative timelines, in terms of an actual being
BD: Firstly, the way I would answer that is that the universe is coming back from a timeline, is you have to think: Is this inserted
stranger than even they can imagine. In other words, when you’re ideas?
dealing with people… Let’s say that we have posited that there
are alternative timelines, and these people have traveled back
from multiple timelines. Because the very nature of the universe is that there is one
timeline that you follow. There may be alternatives that you have
a choice of. But you have to use discernment.
If we think of the -- I call it the universe as a One-“I”-Voice, in
other words, there is a unification of All-That-Is because what the
universe is, is not energy portrayed through advanced equations You’ve got to remember that, in a sense, we live in a matrix. We
in a cybernetic world. It is literally the passage of spirit through a live in a cybernetic world that, to a great extent, is the
montage of images. manifestation of a higher dimensional reality of being that
transcends our physical body.
And when you start to understand that, there is only one. In other
words, there is not... There are maybe multiple possible For example, I try to tell people this repeatedly, is that your mind,
futures. . . i.e., which is equal to your soul, is not physical. It doesn’t exist
on this plane. So when people talk about psychic phenomena and
doppelgangers and other things, what they’re really referring to is
BR: Mm hm. something that’s just the very nature of what we are.
BD: But there is only ONE real future. Our physical mind doesn’t exist on this level. OK? The physical
mind is just a chemical computer. It’s a bunch of neurons
BR: OK. connected; that you’re connected to nuclei, and our eyes and our
physical senses.
BD: OK?
But our physical brain is not what we are. It’s connected through
BR: Right. “the cord of the living waters” to our physical brain. And so, if
we don’t understand what kind of a being we are, we won’t make
correct decisions.
BD: But we do have a choice because… I say we foregive. We
actually are creating whichever timeline we are going get,
whichever rail we are going to get on. So part of this idea of timelines, or even incarnation... For
example if you talk to people about incarnation, they’ll say: Well,
40% of the incarnations are supposedly from the future.
BR: Yeah.
BR: Hm... Yes. Yes.
BD: Otherwise, it would be purposeless to even have human
beings because we’d just be automatons because the future is
already set in stone and whatever is going to happen will happen. BD: Or even nonhuman beings. OK?
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BR: Yep. They’re trying to say, just like Bill Marr and his movie Religious.
You know, obviously he’s a Kabbalist. He believes in the
BD: But the way I tell the people is, I say: Maybe you’re just Kabbalah. And the highest level of the Kabbalah… If you go
kind of picking up, almost like a radio tuned into a certain deep into Masonry, or entirely, you go right back to the Temple
frequency, certain object-lessons or spiritual things so that you of Solomon. They’re completely... They all look Jewish, but
can understand something you’re supposed to learn or remember they’re not. They’re Satanic. They go right back to Atlantis and
in this lifetime. before.
In other words, you’re not becoming... Does that make sense? BR: Hm.
BR: Mm hm. BD: These were adopted into it and invaded into it at the time of
Solomon. That’s why they’ll say they’ll elevate Solomon, and
that Solomon was a great leader. No. He allowed the body of the
BD: So that’s why I see this as being a misinterpretation of it. truth of ancient Israel to be infected by this monstrosity.
OK? So this idea that there is alternative timelines, I think is a
deception, a very, very significant deception. Because it says that
the world is a mechanistic Cartesian world that’s created by BR: Mm hm. Getting back to what you were saying about the
energetics and we’re just kind of like leaves that are pushed along reality, or otherwise, of these alternative timelines, what I hear
by energy, space, and time, and we really don’t have any choices you saying is, it’s almost like an intellectual trick, because it
to our future. doesn’t really count.
In fact, we actually ARE the Gods of this world. But I’m not BD: Right.
talking about replacement of the Creator God. I mean hearing the
voice and doing the will. And that’s a very different thing. So, in BR: What’s in front of us is what’s in front of us, and that’s our
other words, reality is created on this energetic plane by spirit. real responsibility.
It’s not the other way around.
BD: Right.
BR: Of course.
BR: And anything else... It’s almost like it’s not relevant whether
BD: And that’s the problem we’re in. So, when you hear people it’s “real” or not, because it depends on what you mean by real.
saying that they’ve had physical contact, the deception is very,
very powerful. BD: Right.
We’re right here now with mankind, as is said in the Eschaton BR: And the really, real situation is here and now.
that transcends time and space, to make a decision for life,
whether this civilization is going to survive what’s coming or it’s
going to be annihilated. BD: Exactly.
And we’re very close to that, and we can see the object-lesson of BR: And that’s the only thing that matters.
Israel as the final crux. Just look at the foreign policy and look at
the financial policy. Look at all of these things. BD: Yes, and also it might give you a false decision-tree to base
your ideas on and therefore steer you in a direction of wasted
The two groups that are running the world right now, that are intention.
running -- literally driving it into the ground -- are the Teutonic
Knights; the Hansiatic League. Right? That believes that their BR: I understand.
bloodline is descended from Yeshua Ha’Masaich.
BD: That’s the first thing. Wasting action. And wasted effort.
And all the kings and queens of Europe and all the czars of For example, people think there’s going to be a difference if we
Russia, the Caesars, believe their bloodline is descended from elect McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden. I don’t think it makes a
Jesus Christ and King David. Why? That’s bizarre! Why? But it’s difference. It might make a difference if you had somebody like
the truth. Cynthia McKinney or Chuck Baldwin. But how likely is it they’d
be elected president?
You can talk to Jordan Maxwell and others and find it out,
Michael Tsorian and others. Why? Why? Why would that be? BR: Yeah. It’s not going to happen.
And then the other group are the Sabbatians. Right? The BD: It’s not going to happen. The problem is, Cynthia
Sabbatians are basically Satanists. These are, you know... Even McKinney is a black woman. She’s brilliant; she’s tough. She’s
though, you know, they’ll say: Well, we’re communists -- the calling for a 911 investigation. This woman would make an
Israelis -- because they had the Russians there at the inception of absolutely amazing president. OK? But how likely is it for her to
the Israeli state. They’re not. They believe they’re God. There is get in there?
no God.
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And the problem is they may also come with baggage, what we BR: And it’s all got something to do with you.
call environmental baggage, which is, we’ve got to reduce the
world’s oxygen/carbon dioxide. That’s crazy! It’s not science. BD: Right. Absolutely. I hope it transforms some hearts. As
OK? Yeshua Ha’Masaich Jesus said: The message of the kingdom is
now, which means, it’s now, as soon as you attend to shemah, to
I was an oceanographer. I did work with Greenpeace. Carbon hear and do the will of the Creator God of the universe and not to
dioxide is what makes the plants, including the phytoplankton in think that you can set external commandments and create peace
the upper 10 metres of the benthic layer of the oceans produce all on Earth. What you’ll do is you’ll create pieces of Earth.
the oxygen. And our oxygen level now is down from what it was [laughter]
in ancient Mesozoic era, from 30%, down to what it is now.
BR: Is there any final sound-byte that you... Is there anything
So you know, I think what it is, we have to stop looking for an that you haven’t said that you want to leave these people with
external messiah where all these so-called great religions... Like right now? Because this is the chance.
for example, Mr. Ahmadinejad thinks he’s going to see the
Imam-Mahdi, or the Christians think they’re going to see a BD: Well, what I would say is, firstly, prepare for a series of
messiah… spasms and disasters.
KC: Right. BR: When you say “prepare,” you mean physically and
logistically prepare?
BD: …come in the clouds, you know whether... Which is
ridiculous. BD: Spiritually prepare first. But physically prepare. Have your
food and water, have your civil defense. We have a whole series
BR: And there are a bunch of people who think the ETs will save of civil defense things. I’m actually working with Gordon
us. Peterson in Homeland Security to stop aircraft bringing in
pandemic viruses.
BD: Right. They think the ETs... You see, this “ET save us” stuff
is crazy stuff, too. Prepare to have things to protect yourself from pandemic avian
flu, which we have on our website, nutrimedical.com. Prepare
BR: Right. yourself to be home-quarantined for anywhere from six weeks to
two months or more.
BD: The fact is, what’s going to save us is us. You know, it’s
like the inverse of Pogo’s statement there, you know: I’ve seen BR: Anywhere in the world? Or here in America?
the enemy and the enemy is us. I’ve seen the messiah and the
messiah is us. BD: Anywhere. Anywhere on the planet. Be prepared for food
shortages on a massive scale, starting as early as this fall. Be
BR: Very good. prepared to know how to have... in other words, I don’t tell
people to join the militia. I tell people to start shooting clubs.
BD: I hope this kind of gets people to kind of drop their old
paradigms and I hope I get them to, you know, like Marshall I believe that we need to exert our Second Amendment right, not
McKluen, “tune in and drop out.” In other words, drop out of so that we can go out and start shooting fellow Americans, but
false lies, whether it’s politics or religion or thinking these other we can protect ourselves if things get out of hand.
things are solutions. Become personally responsible. Become
public and interact with other people. I worked with federal agents at the Federal Center in Denver and
they did simulations and actually were stockpiling pallets of gold
Don’t think that, by default, if you don’t say anything about it bullion, gold coins, and bales of heroine to interact with gangs;
you’re not responsible for the death of 15- to 32-million Iranians so that between 4 and 12 days after a state of national civil
and a radiation cloud that circulates the planet and destroys your emergency, like nuclear war, they could trade with the gangs that
own health. would control every city.
KC: Right. BR: When was that, Bill, that you encountered that?
BD: The sins of omission are greater than the sins of BD: That was in 1997.
commission. And the sins of silence are greater than the sins of
action. BR: But that’s all still in force.
BR: Yes. BD: Oh yes, all those things. Their COG [Continuity of
Government] which was set up by George Bush, Sr., made it
KC: Yes. I second that. And this is where we ask for everyone to even more serious. So that COG plan, and all those things, have
take part. been done going back, like over grades, going back since
Eisenhower.
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BR: OK. BR: Yeah. Yep. People will do it themselves. Yeah.
BD: They’ve been doing this for a long time. And it’s not just in BD: The violence will be... Just take a city, like, let’s say you
America. You have to understand, these plans are replicated in had a city like Los Angeles and you took out 20 blocks with a 10-
one form or another in Canada, in Britain, in Australia, in African kiloton nuclear weapon, with a population kill of let’s say
nations, in China. They have policies. 200,000. And California devolved into a state where there’s no
trucks going anywhere with any food. And this is a place where
There’s over 4,000 underground facilities around the world alone. it’s a breadbasket.
And in America, two giant facilities besides the little ones, that
are a mile-and-a-half to four miles down. This state would be a seething caldron of death, and half the
population would probably be dead within 30 days. Just because
I mean, they’ve been going crazy. And most of the illegal money of the roving gangs shooting each other up, and trying to grab
is drug money coming from the illegal sale of heroine and food that was left and getting trucks and whatever.
cocaine, OxyContin, Ecstasy, etc., three-quarters of a trillion
dollars into weird projects. KC: Right.
BR: Yeah. BR: Yes.
BD: And again, they’re addicted to this. They’re addicted to BD: It would be insane. It would make Road Warrior look like a
money that isn’t under the scrutiny of the Congress or Senate. party. And people say: Oh no, it couldn’t get that bad. I said: The
And I don’t think, if either party is elected, they’re going to steer guys who told me were special forces that worked at the Federal
us away from this. Center that told me this. And they shocked me back in ’97 when
they told me this stuff.
We have to get away from thinking the political system is going
to solve this. It’s not. Or the religious, you know. A lot of people BR: Yeah. And all of this is being modeled as well.
think if they just go pray a whole lot in church, whatever church
they belong to? They’re crazy. BD: Yeah. So I tell people they’ve got to start preparing for
disaster. And then we’ll come back out of that. Because when
BR: Yep. they bring it out, the next thing is: Oh, that wasn’t too bad. It was
only two weeks of martial law. Or six weeks.
BD: They need to start taking action. We mean action to the
street, to their neighbors and they need to say: Hey, I don’t want BR: Yes. That’s just to get people acclimatized to the idea.
to participate in the winding down of civilization.
BD: Just like Katrina, you know. We let the people in Katrina
BR: Yep. now live in trailers that would ruin their health or they have
homes that are still loaded with mold that are killing them. Right?
BD: Because they need to see that this is the first stage here.
This is the devolution of the economy. And the next stage after Or, we let them federalize parts of the country. That’s totally
the devolution of the economy and a release of a pandemic or against the Constitution. Right? They’re still federalizing. The
martial law -- and it won’t just be in America -- is the hard- city of Detroit’s federalized, the city of New Orleans. This is a
chipping of the population, forced vaccination, pandemic, and the violation of Federal and State law. What are they doing?
hard kill’s going to start.
They’re eventually going to federalize the whole country because
BR: Mm hm. they’ve been, grade by grade, running martial law and admiralty
law parallel with the Constitution.
BD: And I’m talking about hard kill, where they’re going to try
to kill 90% of human beings on the planet with either pandemics, And eventually they’re just going to get rid of that, in George
injected viruses, lethal weapons systems or whatever, or Bush, Jr.’s terms: That GD piece of paper.
starvation just because of economic chaos. And people say: Oh
no. They wouldn’t do that. They’re just going to throw it away and say: Guess what guys.
We’ve got enough executive orders; we’ve got enough
I have contacts inside the Canadian and U.S. government that Blackwater Security worldwide -- which are the Rothschilds
have said, if there is a total breakdown of society for 30 days, private army. Right? -- And we’re going to take you on.
half the population in Canada and the same in the States would be
dead. BR: Yep.
BR: Yep. From violence. BD: OK? So people need to grasp that. And they need to be
prepared for things. And they need to be able to stand up. And if
BD: Not from a pandemic. From violence. they don’t stand up, well…
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BR: Is it possible that some of the “white hats” in Intel and the You can’t move far enough away. You can’t move to the south
military will stand up themselves? island of New Zealand and think you’re going to be safe. Or
Paraguay. There is nowhere on this planet you can move away
BD: They are already. I’ve already got contacts who’ve told me. from this without it eventually taking you if you don’t stand up to
Like William Fallon, you know, was public. He said: Not on my this evil.
watch will you start a war against Iran. They fired him.
So if I have any messages: Prepare for disaster. Speak out now
KC: Yes. because you’re going to be silenced very shortly.
BD: They put two people of Jewish descent in there that are And believe me, they won’t be able to silence your blood-
willing to take orders, that are willing to attack Iran. curdling screams as you’re hauled away in a Black-Op truck in
the middle of the night, or a railcar with the shackles grinding
into your ankles and your wrists, as you’re screaming because
BR: Sure. you know you’re going away to the death chambers. OK?
BD: Twice in the last year-and-a-half, these Israelis tried to go This really is getting prepared. They’re getting prepared. They’ve
downtown. The last time was around June 24th when the shipped in the plastic coffins. They’ve got the railcars. They’ve
American government allowed 100 Israeli jets to do air got the incineration stations all ready. They’ve got everything
maneuvers, and a war game over Iraqi airspace. ready.
And the Russians detected it with their satellite-based imaging, People say: Oh, it doesn’t exist. I say: Well, my condolences to
and started to scramble, transfer codes -- for the launch codes -- you because if you want to attack me and say that I’m a
for their submarine-launched nuclear missiles, and their Bear crackerjack because I give all these spiritual and other things,
bombers heading toward North America. People don’t know. We you’re going to suffer and then you’re going to die. And you’re
were moments away from a thermonuclear war in June. not just going to die a physical death, you’re going to die a
spiritual death.
BR: We heard about that.
BR: Yep. And one of the reasons why you die a spiritual death is
BD: I mean, most people say: Oh, that doesn’t happen. You because you never stood up when you could have done.
people are crazy. I say: Well, I’ve got contacts. I went back
weeks later and verified it from my sources. BD: Right. The greatest sins are the sins of silence in the face of
evil.
BR: Yep.
BR: Yes. We second that.
BD: And so people say: Oh, that can’t happen. You’ve just got a
really good imagination. I said: I wish. I mean, this is a damned KC: Absolutely. We absolutely second that. Thank you very
nightmare. much.
BR: Yeah. BR: Bill, thank you so much.
BD: And it’s really happening. But I’m brave enough to say it
because I know there’s no alternative. If I don’t speak out against
this…
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Project Camelot:
Dr Bill Deagle - Telephone Conversation Transcript
24 September 2008
The following part conversation was recorded on 24 September, BR: We suspect that there may be several events coming up in
2008. Dr Bill Deagle called us, and as we were not expecting quick succession in the next three or four weeks.
the call we were unprepared for a recording. It is incomplete at
the beginning and at the end, but this middle section is so BD: Yeah, they could happen. Several things are going to be
interesting that many may like to read it. intervening here.
Start of Conversation People need to realize that we’re not dealing with... This is
something that’s really shocking for a lot of people that think the
Kerry Cassidy: We’re going to be speaking at NEXUS in New World Order’s run by a bunch of rich, inbred white guys
Australia in the beginning of October and also at the Crash from Europe.
Retrieval Conference, covering just that sort of question.
We’re dealing with transdimensional entities and beings from
Bill Deagle: Yeah. I know it’s a broad question. other worlds that even transcend the idea of the Anunnaki. They
have to understand that there’s a galactic order and a cosmic
K: But I have to say… I mean, what we‘re getting is very similar order to things... of higher order beings that have been watching
to what you’ve actually been talking about for the last 5-10 our world, certainly very aghast with the battlefield that’s been
minutes. We are getting lots of cross-correlation, various going on in the psychic level, the physical level, the
whistleblowers in Black Ops, and also what you might term informational level, etc. It’s been on every possible level you can
intuitives, and people coming forward from actual on-the-scene imagine. And we’re caught in the clutches, literally, of being on
places, reporting about what’s going on with the economy. the battle line of a great galactic and cosmic war. Literally Star
Certainly we’ve been in contact with Ben Fulford, that there was Wars.
some kind of effort with the Japanese to bail out the US
economy. Apparently that’s being rejected. K: Yes. We would agree with that.
BD: The Japanese were going to buy out a large chunk of some BD: That star-war has been going on for ages, with previous
of these banks, Lehman and other ones. collapses of our civilization caused by these same creatures.
What’s happening now, though, is that human beings are getting
K: Right. And we do understand the whole… that, you know, to the point where we’re almost ready to be birthed or be
it’s like a paper tiger. It’s just crashing down. annihilated.
BD: Well yes. It’s all by design though. And the decision is going to require a sea-change in the attitude
of people, not the technology, to get us through this, but an
attitude change in terms of the core connectedness of people to
K: Right. We understand that this is the Illuminati agenda. And their Higher-order Self, if you want to call it, understanding the
we also understand that behind the Illuminati you’ve got, you nature of what they are as a being, and the nature of the universe.
know, a certain faction of the Anunnaki. So it goes way, way
back.
K: Yes. That’s absolutely right.
Bill Ryan: Yes. One of the analogies, Bill, that I use when I’m
talking to people is the metaphor that you described in your BD: And religions, which I call “real lies going on”… because
Granada Forum lecture, that it’s like they’ve just piled up all the the problem is, religions are a substitute for knowledge and
ingredients for a fire, with a little tender and the kindling and the wisdom of what’s really the nature of themselves and the nature
big logs and the large logs, and all it needs is a match. And now I of their universe.
think they’re just about to strike the match.
K: Yes. We wouldn’t argue with any of that. Basically we
BD: Oh yeah. They are. In fact, it won’t take very much. It could understand the underlying spiritual basis for what‘s going on.
be economic collapse and they could declare martial law. And I have to say that we’re also very concerned over the energy
that is put out there to make something either happen or not
happen.
K: Yeah. We get that.
BD: Well yes, exactly. In fact, the negative energy -- and this is
BD: You’ve got around 8 billion out there under active handlers one of the things I’ve been concerned of lately; I talked to Jeff
and of those 780,000 are actually for execution. Rense about this just over the weekend -- is that a number of the
“patriots” are putting out such a negative message they’re
204
actually creating, if you want to call it, an environment that will BD: Yes, I know that. What he’s done there… And he’s been on
manifest it into reality. the show, and he’ll be on again this week. I managed to get him
on Jeff Rense and he’s been on Don Nicoloff. I told him to get on
K: Exactly. as many shows as possible and try to promote … because this is
what I call a fulcrum issue. Because the illegal Black-Op money
is funding most of the building of these underground cities and
BD: They’re creating what I call the Kool-Aid of Fear that could off-world space platforms, etc.
manifest a lot of destruction.
K: Right.
K: Well, I mean, we also want to… we’re concerned on this
level as well. And one thing that we do to change that paradigm
is at the end of every interview or anything we do, we always BD: And they’re building an average of two of these giant
stress that we are co-creators. underground cities every year now in America, plus they’re
building cities and facilities all over the world. So they’re getting
ready, not just for a staged WWIII or an alien invasion. They’re
BD: Of course we are.. getting ready for something that’s cosmic and galactic.
And that we need to wake up and get connected with each other And the people that do this think they’re doing the right thing
such that we can actually change what’s going to happen and because they’re going to “preserve civilization.” So you have to
mitigate what’s going to happen. To be honest with you, although get into the mind of the twisted people at the top that think: Well,
I see you… you’re one of the people that talks on the most 90% of the people will die, but civilization will survive. That’s
negative level. Now, I realize that you may not intend it that what their mentality is. That’s what I call a “triage mentality” in
way… terms of civilization.
BD: Yes. K: They also have an agenda, though, that has to do with
clearing the Earth out for their own use.
K: …but you sort of tell it like it is.
BD: Oh, of course. They have multiple agendas, but they all do
BD: I really don’t even unveil the totality of what I know but I what is right in their own eyes, which is the basis of
try to always deal with issues where I can provide solutions, Luciferianism.
whether it’s avian flu, like we’re working on … actual things,
like the AeroClave Program to stop the avian flu coming in in K: Right.
aircraft. We’re actually working with Homeland Security and Dr.
Gordon Peterson and others. And we try to bring in people to talk
about some of the things. Because, to be honest with you, I’ve BR: Exactly.
only discussed about 10% of the stuff I really know that could be
very, very negative. BD: Yes. There’s really only two perspectives in the universe:
Connectedness to the creator of the universe, or just
The problem I see is, a lot of people kind of play down the Luciferianism, which is Let your will be done. And everything
desperateness of the situation. I think you need to do both. You else is just what I call falseness in religion which are, as they say,
need to show how bad it is, but also show that you have a lot of “real lies going on.”
power, not only personally but corporately, once you activate and
kind of unveil other peoples’ knowledge of this, to kind of steer K: We’re on board with all of that.
us away from the iceberg of disaster.
BD: Yes, it’s important for people to kind of start getting… how
K: Well that’s we’re banking on. And that’s why we started our can I say, willing to remember what they always knew.
new website which you may be familiar with, which is
projectavalon.net, where we have a forum there that’s absolutely K: That’s a nice way of putting it.
taken off like wildfire. It’s all about finding safe places,
networking, and building communities for what’s coming in the
future. BR: That’s what the word re-cognize means, isn’t it?
BD: Well, what they’re doing right now… Luckily, with the BD: The problem is, you see… I tell people: If we have the spirit
avenues and the things that’ve been given, we just had a major of the creator god in us, then we are the I AM and we have to
release of information about the Oxycontin Scam with the Israeli stop pretending that it’s an external creator and also take
Mossad and the Dixie Mob and Purdue Pharma to build a plant in responsibility for the destruction of our planet.
Israel to distribute billions of dollars of illegal Oxycontin. So
99% of it is coming in with the Israeli Mossad and the Dixie We’re going to cutesy little movies like Wall-E and seeing large
Mob, which is Dr. Richard Charles Norton. corporations turning the Earth into a garbage dump by design,
which they’re doing very effectively, from spraying from these
K: You know, Richard Norton is a big follower of our site and robotic drones, and creating pollution, and depleted uranium, and
we’re in touch with him. everything else.
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We have to start to see beyond the greed of just a bunch of BD: So that’s already been worked out, that an ozone collapse
maniacs, to people that are in a Death Cult, to something that would occur with a magnetic field collapse.
transcends human -- or even any other advanced entity of being
that would be in this cosmos or universe -- that has malevolent K: Well, this is true. Although from what I understand, they do
intent. And when you start understanding that, you start to see have technology that can mitigate some of this.
beyond the agenda, and you start to see something that even if
you wanted to just be rich and powerful, you wouldn’t do what
they’re doing. It’s a Death March, in other words. BD: Sure they do. In fact, that’s one of the main Black-Op
procedures under HAARP and the weather control, was using all
these systems. In fact they have multiple layers of it. A lot of the
K: Yes, it is. work they’re doing is actually control of the weather if there’s a
magnetic field collapse and a magnetic field flux shift of the
BD: And you also have to decide that you’re going to not Earth.
participate in it. The biggest problem right now is that it can only
happen if we give permission, including the fear. In fact, the fear K: Right. That’s the positive side.
gives them permission to create the future reality and to steer us
toward disaster.
BD: This would not have to be solved on the technical level if
we are spiritually on the right track, in other words.
BR: Yes. Exactly.
BR: We had insider confirmation from somebody whose name
K: I think that’s very good information and I think that’s also a we have never revealed, but who’s a very brilliant scientist whose
good perspective that you’ve got there. I think that that kind of name you would recognize instantly. He told us that he was
thing will be very important to put on the video for people. contracted under a Top Secret clearance for the Department of
Homeland Security. And he told us that there were three events
BD: Well I want to lift up… that would be coming up for us in the next few years, and he
apologized for presenting us with bad news.
K: It’s not only information that they need, but they also need to
understand how to deal with it. You understand? The first one, he said, was a coronal mass ejection.
BD: Yes. I feel it’s almost … The process… Having worked and BD: Well, in fact … Let me explain a little about this before you
seeing many people die, it’s like seeing the death of toxic Ideas, proceed so that you will understand that I’m getting a piece of
the death of a toxic fairytale-land that never existed, and that information that may be correct.
that’s the civilization that they’ve become used to -- which can’t
continue in its current state because it’s going to result in the Coronal mass ejections are always tied to major earthquakes. And
death of all of us if we continue to allow it to exist. the reason is, it rings the Earth as a bell and the Earth… The
tectonic plates have certain tectonic plate harmonics. So when
K: Yes, it’s kind of like a short death or a long death. you hit the right harmonic frequency … In fact, this is how
tectonic weapons work. And I know because I worked with NSA
BD: Right. In other words, we have to decide whether to and they told me, a senior agent told me, exactly how their space-
participate in this game any longer that’s going to result possibly based tectonic weapons work by creating what’s called tensor
in the death of all human civilization, or whether we’re going to harmonics in the plates. And they reach what’s called the slip
grow up and take responsibility. threshold -- basically what’s called a piezoelectric slip threshold -
- of the plates.
K: Yes.
So, if there’s a coronal mass ejection, there’s a direct link. You
guys should go back through the major earthquakes that occurred
BR: That’s the core question right there. That’s it. over the last century. The biggest ones have all been triggered off
by massive solar ejections. They often occur after a period of
BD: You mentioned you’re getting this from a number of incredible solar quietness. And we’ve had the quietest time in
different sources. I don’t want to just put it on the 2012 issue in almost 100 years, with almost no sunspots.
terms of Nibiru and all this stuff, because…
K: Yes. Exactly.
The major events that are happening right now, or actually are
already started to happen, was the magnetic pole shift and the BD: And that usually precedes a solar mass ejection.
possible reversal of the magnetic flux of the Earth that can result
in the collapse of the magnetosphere on or after 2012. It can
result in the ozone layer going bye-bye. And a 60-minute drop in K: Also there’s a linkup between the sun and the movement of
the ozone layer in 45 minutes would knock out the benthic layer magma under the Earth.
of the upper oceans and kill most of the grassy plants on Earth
and about 1/3 of the trees. BD: That’s right, because magma’s basically an interlocked
engine. In other words, it’s like the engine of the… The way the
BR: Yep. universe works is that the center of the galaxy is a black hole that
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is equivalent to 2-trillions star masses the size of our sun. And BR: This is what he’s saying.
there’s a photon jet that comes out of that that actually drives
nuclear reactions in all the stars in the galaxy and creates the BD: Yes. In other words, you’re talking about a precession of the
vortex -- the time/space vortex -- that actually creates the spin of spin of the Earth that causes the actual continents to drift.
the galaxy.
BR: What he said was a pole shift. Now, there’s complicated
Well, that interlocked magnetic flux lines of the suns interlocks information here that we can -- this is probably beyond the scope
with all the plasma fields underneath all the planets and stars, so of this phone call, which we can talk about when we meet – but
that there’s an interlocking there. And there’s also an interlocking there’s a possibility that that’s been mitigated. In other words, it
with our bodies’ cells, called the Lamar Effect, where the valence won’t happen. But even without that we’re in trouble enough. So
electrons are bumped out to the outer orbitals, to cause chemical it’s kind of like we’ve got a lot on our plates right now.
reactions. So if you don’t have a magnetic flux field, your
chemical reactions turn off and you die.
BD: Well, at the very least, even if they mitigated, the main
problem that’s going to happen is major climatic changes and
So we’re all interlocked, in other words. The symbol for the famine. The most thorough way to do that is a pandemic, even
super black hole at the center of each galaxy that creates this more thorough than a nuclear war, because within two weeks of a
vortex field that’s connected across an umbilicus to a parallel nuclear war the radiation levels are low enough for troops and
universe. And the symbol for that is the swastika, the oldest people to move around even without rad suits. So a pandemic is
symbol found in the temple at Delhi, India, over 5500 years ago. much more serious than that in terms of stopping services and so
So they’re quite aware of it. That’s why they had the Society of on. Because once the dust is clear, if you’ve got limited
the Black Sun in Germany because they understood that this destruction you can find routes of transport and most of the
knowledge was passed down through… from the sacred libraries ground level radiation is low enough people can walk around
collected in most recent times by the Romans. But it ended up in because most of the radioisotopes have dissipated.
the Vatican Library.
K: OK. Well, we’re getting also some information about this belt
BR: Yes. Just to continue, though, this guy referenced the event around the Equator, of…
of 1859 that you’ll probably know about as something to help us
understand what kind of event a mass ejection is.
BR: This is John Moore’s information, which you may be
familiar with. Because he says that he has talked to three
BD: 1859… independent submariners. And one of the words that he used was
really quite compelling to me. He said that if you’re in a
BR: There was a huge solar storm. At that time, of course, it submarine, knowing where the bottom of the ocean is and
didn’t affect any electronics or anything, but they had auroral knowing where the surface of the ocean is is mandatory.
displays as far south or as far north as the Equator.
BD: Right.
BD: Right.
BR: He’s referring to a classified US Navy map showing
BR: And there was a big fireworks display and everyone just drastically altered coastlines. Now you may be familiar with this.
kind of watched it all. But nothing was taken down. And, of And the question that we’ve always had about this is: Well, where
course, nowadays it would be a totally different story. does this water come from? And John Moore says that…
And for some reason that we don‘t understand, this guy who Actually… Look, we really need to understand the physics of
contacted us a couple of years ago said that this thing would be this, because, due to the spin of the Earth, you’ve got… Actually
coming up for us around about 2009. He did not explain how he sea level at the Equator is much further away from the center of
knew this was coming. the Earth than it is any other place because you’ve got centrifugal
force. It’s about 400 feet higher at the Equator.
The second thing he said was that there was going to be a
magnetic pole reversal. His exact words, just to support what BD: Right.
you’re saying there.
BR: And so what we need to do is to change the axis of rotation
BD: Yes, that’s already happening. We’re having a collapse of of the Earth in some way and then all of that water readjusts
the North Atlantic and the South Atlantic in the areas of the itself. And when it readjusts itself you’re talking about huge
Arctic and the Antarctic. That’s already happening now. impacts on coastlines.
BR: And the last thing he said, and this was two years ago, and BD: Oh, yes. In other words, what you’re saying is there’s
this may have been mitigated, (and this is a longer conversation change in the bulge of the Earth to a different band.
that we’d like to talk with you about), he said there would be a
pole shift, a physical pole shift. BR: Exactly. That’s right. And if the liquid bulge of the Earth
moves, then that impacts billions of people everywhere. And this
BD: So you’re talking about a physical pole shift. is just one of the physical knock-on effects of some kind of
alteration in the way that the Earth is spinning.
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BD: Well, one of the things that people need to know -- and I’m BR: We heard that there were some ice sheets in the Rockies that
going to have Robert Felix back on; I’ve been investigating this were previously just seasonal and which are now becoming
for about 5, 6 years -- is that as we enter this energetic part of the permanent.
galaxy, there’s a lot of cosmic rays and other things that act as
micronuclei to trigger increased rainfall. And the thing that BD: Right. Now what’s happening… And a lot of the Global
precipitates… Warming people try to say they’re seeing the polar ice sheet
melting in the Arctic, but that’s because they’re directly over the
One of the most serious effects of climate change is actually not Gakkel Range which is a 1500 km range of volcanic mountains
global warming, it’s increased rainfall caused by cosmic particles and the water’s coming out at 700 degrees. So it’s melting from
that act as micronuclei. And the rainfall increase is the thing that below.
drives us into an ice age. And it’s very probable that, as we head
into this photon belt, that it’s going to trigger another ice age, And so what’s going on in Antarctica… and nine out of ten
because we’re in an interglacial period. And it doesn’t take 10 glaciers are actually increasing in thickness. So what we’re
years to happen. It can happen literally in one year. heading into, I believe, is an ice age.
BR: Yes. That’s right. The melting of the Arctic is all caused by under-oceanic currents
caused by volcanism. There’s an incredible increase in
K: Yes. volcanism. 90% of active volcanoes on Earth are under the
oceans.
BD: So it’s very probable that what will be triggered as we pass
through this, even if we only have a magnetic pole shift and we BR: That makes sense.
survive that, is it’ll precipitate a glacial ice sheet mass of
snowfall. The amount of rain that has been occurring in Canada BD: That feeds along the inter-oceanic band there that is 40,000
and across north Europe and the northern States is absolutely miles long. One of the most active areas is the Gakkel Range in
phenomenal. If that continues through this winter, they may very the Arctic. And that’s why the polar ice shelf was breaking off.
well have snow in the northern latitudes that may not be gone by We’re having global cooling at the same time that volcanism is
next summer. increasing.
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Project Camelot:
Clif High, Half Past Human -
Telephone Interview Transcript
26 September 2008
C: OK, I’ll give you the basic spiel on the thing and we’ll go
from there. And in 1994 I came across this idea that I called “The
Language Model for Storing Data” while working for some of the
high-tech… well, the largest software companies on the planet.
And finally over time I wrote some software to support the idea,
in an attempt to mine the internet for emotions around the idea of
stocks and bonds, with the idea that, if I knew how people felt
about them, I could predict what their reaction would be to
developing news, ahead of their being able to make that actual
reaction themselves…with the idea that this could be sold as a
profit-making kind of a venture.
And in 1997 I came across something that totally flipped my

mind about this whole idea, in the sense that I went looking for
Stanford University Network, a stock at the time, and came
across “suns” because… in terms of the fuller energy source
This 75 minute interview with Clif High from Half Past Human we’ve got for us… and noticed that there were some really
looks into their predictive linguistic modeling technology, Clif's interesting things going on in the language I was picking up.
personal journey and relationship with his work, and HPH's
forecasts themselves - the most well known of which is their From there I… From 1997 to 2001 I deduced some of the
analysis of a major unknown event in early (7th?) October which following principals: All people are psychic. Most don’t know it.
Clif and others believe might be very major indeed. For us at Even if you do know it, it does not impact the next statement I’m
Project Camelot, this was a little too close to the warnings we had going to make, which is: That all humans leak out these psychic
independently received from Hawkeye and other sources (see our impressions in the language that they choose to use in ordinary
home page, right hand column, for details), and we found conversation. And that was my basic premise to begin with.
ourselves paying close attention.
This interview is not the best audio quality (mainly because of My working theory from that point was that if one could sample
Clif's noise reducing phone, which makes him appear muffled) - enough of the conversations going on around the planet and sift
but is good value nonetheless because of the fascinating content. for the nuance between why one word might be chosen in an
We are working on a transcript to be published soonest. ordinary conversation as opposed to another word for the same
conversation that basically you’d had a week ago, then one could
determine what is moving us, if you will, at an unconscious level
and be able to make some forecasts from that in a very interesting
Kerry Cassidy: So this is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, and way. Sort of an extension, if you will, of my work, of the focus of
we’re here with Clif High from Half Past Human, a very it in 1997, which was commercial. Make sense?
interesting website, I’ve got to say. So it’s great to have you with
us and we are Project Camelot and Project Avalon.
K: Yes. Wonderful.
From here we just want to talk to you, basically, about your site
and about your research, and some of the things you’re getting in C: OK. So basically at that point I’m assuming that all these
the near future. And then talk about some of those things that psychics are out there. And I had educated myself on language,
you’re seeing long range as well. and how linguistics works, and how the human brain works, and
all this kind of thing. Along the way I wrote this little piece of
software that allowed me to read off the computer screen at up to
Clif High: Okay. You guide. It’s entirely your forum here so you 2000 words per minute, so I was able to suck down vast
ask, I shall reply. quantities of text over those years. And it led to some interesting
breakthroughs on its own.
K: OK. To start out with, I guess the most interesting way to
start would be to explain a little bit about the technique you’ve But, in any event, the issues about language… It turns out that
got going on here. there is a nuance. We have, taking English speakers as an
example, we might know more or less intuitively or internally the
definitions of, say, about 100,000 words. Depending on your
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specialty and what you do for a living at the time, technically that And so it would go and eat some net and move and read more
might be slightly larger or slightly less. But any given human web pages and keep going and going and going. And I think
English speaker may only use 11 or 12,000 words in any given we’ve got a 256 limit on how deep it can go, in links, before it
week. And the 11 or 12,000 words is not static from week to has to unwind and come back and go on to the next stage. So it
week to week. It shifts. can get some huge amounts of text out of here, on the order of,
usually, about 90 million leads.
So if we start thinking about this in terms of set theory and fuzzy
set theory, which is part of the programming, and I wasn’t really And a lead is a construct that we use, where we have 2,048 bites
into the programming of it all, then you start getting into the idea fore and aft, if you will, of the key word that it found. It
of: Well, why from week to week to week, do some of the words constitutes a lead, but it also brings back the context of where it
within our basic set fall out and are replaced by others? found that. In other words if it’s in a gardening forum, if it’s
dating, car repair, whatever. And some other information, these
And that was my premise that: Oh well, that’s occurring because kind of things...
of something that we are picking up as human antenna walking
around vibrating on the planet and also picking up information K: But in essence… This is something Bill and I had been
just because we’re here. Again that sort of makes sense, right? discussing, asking each other whether or not you actually were
feeding it key words that you were looking for.
K: Right.
C: That part of the process is extremely unique and I don’t want
C: OK. And then… to go too deep into it because it actually is the real key to the
thing, I think, and it’s a trade secret. We do have a seed list and
we do have a seed list of 300,000 forums to begin hunting in.
K: But what do you mean, you weren’t interested in the… I’m But, no, it is not deterministic in the sense of data-mining where
not sure. You weren’t interested in the computer modelling side we say: Go on out and count the number of times you run across,
of it? Or are you saying someone else took care of that? you know, tire or wall or bridge or something. It doesn’t work
that way.
C: No, no. I did all of that. I was fascinated by the math in the
language and so on. And I’m a programmer. That’s basically K: OK, but…
where I came from. I programmed for a software company. It’s
like Microsoft. I wrote software for phone companies, worked on
some very complex stuff. Worked for GEC Marconi and very C: OK. Basically what it’s doing is this here’s a long column of
large companies, those kind of things, almost exclusively in the what we call context. These contexts can be thought of as the
software realm. name for a larger group of words. And you might give it 30,000
of these names to start with. And one of them might be forward
or energy and we tell it: OK, take the word energy out of this long
But eventually it rose up to the point where I was working on list of 30,000 words, go over and read the entire context that
algorithms and computer theory, as opposed to actual software, we’ve got associated with that, and store that in your memory.
over the course of… I don’t know how many… fifteen, twenty And that itself might be 30- or 40,000 words. And then go over to
years, or something. I got to the point where the software this website and see what you can match out of that in the
component of it became less and I was getting down into the following manner. Make sense?
deep-sea secrets, if you will.
K: OK. It sounds even more complex than I originally thought.
K: Yeah. OK. I would say maybe the philosophical side of it
began to draw you more.
Bill Ryan: What that tells me is that, instead, what you’re doing,
actually you’re looking for significant correlations. Is that a better
C: Sure. Correct. And basically, I developed some software that way of looking at it?
goes on out and eats large chunks of the internet. It reads public
domain stuff off of forums and other areas, sometimes strays into
chat groups. It’s not very deterministic and it follows links, so C: Correct. We’re no longer… We don’t actually even look at
sometimes when we set it off, we don’t really know where it’s the words, the words themselves. The whole thing was written in
going to end up going in terms of what text it’s going to eat. And a… The spiders and so forth are in a much more deterministic
that’s part of the whole thrill of it all, if you will. software language called C, and some Perl script. Most of the
processing is done by Prolog. But the Perl script will go through
and do a match and replace, if you will. And from the time we
There’s a serendipitous approach to this because we tell the actually find any of the words we’re looking for, from that point
software, which are called spiders, to sit on this server, open up on, really all it deals with is a four-digit text number that we
this one web page, go and find any key words on that web page assign to it.
that we tell you out of this list to start with. And if you find those
words, read back a certain number of words and read forward a
certain number of words, copy that, do some stuff with it, and if And that’s just so we are not dealing with the word itself, but we
you find any links in there, well, have at it. Go follow those and are indeed… Perhaps you heard that the government has this…
do the same thing down there. the US government has this software out there, that says: Hmm,
this fellow dialed that fellow on this phone number, or He sent
this fellow an email, and it tries to develop up the concept of
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networks from it, right? Who’s talking to who. Not about what, and -so day, found such-and-so word, and such-and-so word has
but just who’s talking to whom. this length of duration. And we plot that on the calendar.
K: Well, we actually heard that, you know, they do use key K: OK. But it’s the relationship between… And when you say
words, though. you actually tracked it in time, that was a value judgment on your
part.
C: Oh sure. Sure. But basically what I wanted to come back to
was that Bill’s correct. Actually we’re not looking for the words C: Correct. It’s all arbitrary.
per se, nor the count of them, or anything but the relationship
between that word and other words, because we’re looking for K: And it was based on a relationship between words to each
the nuance. other and to life as we know it. In other words, it was subject to
your interpretation of what it means to, you know, as you said, a
B: I can understand how by taking this very dated snapshot of value judgment basing… saying fear may last a shorter time than
the web you can find out what’s happening now and what people anxiety. That could be an interpretation.
are looking at now. But how do you target specific points at a
future time, and a specific future time? C: That is an interpretation, not a could be. I know that this thing
is entirely self-centric. What apparently makes it work is that I’m
C: OK. So we send the spiders out and they go out and they find not particularly egocentric and I’m somewhat of an empath, so
out that oh oh… They get real excited and they come back and that I’m… And I’ve been knocked around on the planet all over
they tell us that somebody’s using the word “jack”, like: I’ve and exposed to all kinds of people and all kinds of languages and
jacked my old lady’s car. OK? understand basically the emotive nature of how cross-cultural
archetypes work. And then I’ve done a lot of research. As I say, I
Now, we think about that word… and basically a lot of this was educated myself in this in some serious ways. So, yes, it is an
all down to slang anyways to get the idea across. We look at… interpretation but it’s a very educated interpretation, obviously.
We’ve assigned… Let me back up.
K: OK. Did you do this on your own? Or did you have partners
I got a copy of the Oxford English Dictionary in the form of a that you worked with?
lexicon, just a list of all the words, way back when in 1994 or
something, about 300,000 English language words, right? And I C: No, no. I sat around and typed all this stuff up and all the
started assigning values to these things in a numeric way to software noodled on it over… from ’94 to ’97, when I first
assign emotional relationships to them, so that I would say, you started really getting serious about setting down the data. I
know, that this word fear has an emotional relationship to happened to be running some servers and doing something else
trembling, to stomach clenching, and all the other various other with those servers, and I had some spare processing time here, so
ways in which fear impacts the human body. And then I assigned while I was sitting here in my little office I got serious about it
a numeric value to those that indicated the duration of that word and started the whole process off then. It took from ’94 to ‘97,
fear impacting, or that particular word impacting, on the body, if basically, for the ideas to gel and for some of the programming to
you will. get written.
So that anxiety had less of an impact on the body instantly, but B: How about other languages? Because the Chinese might be
may be longer-termed duration than fear, because fear may be talking about things that are different from what we’re talking
instant, and you may literally empty your bowels and piss about in the western world.
yourself. But it may only last a few minutes. And then: Phew!
Boy, that train just barely missed me! And blah blah blah. But C: Sure, they do it in different… and in fact, different alphabets.
after a few days it’s gone. On the other hand, anxiety may Alphabets, to transliteration, to translation - all of this really
dominate your life for decades. Does that make sense? impacts. So we’re doing more than just simply English language
at this stage although we are English-centric because that forms
OK. So, to assign a value, what we did was, we had on each and the core of our lexicon. We could of course have millions of
every one of these words, we assigned what we called a words and millions of languages but we’re not up that far.
durational value. In other words, how long does this word, at its
core level, have an impact on your particular future? This is basically a garage operation with myself and a fellow that
has agreed to go by the name of Igor who is my server slave and
Some might be three days, some might be three months. And so goes out and manages all my servers while I manage all of the
in the case of slang, usually the impact is short, immediate. It’s rest of the operation. And it’s just a, you know, basically a two-
the intent of slang to get across a new emotional context that man operation on this end and George Ure is our public face and
usually has much more greater immediacy, because your father’s really about all the free information that we want to give
words are old and staid and they seem to have a longer duration everybody in the sense of what we’ve got. And that’s kind of
and they don’t really reflect what’s happening right now. where we’re at.
And so when we assign values we took that kind of thing into K: Well, this is really fascinating because when you gave us
account. So, thus, legal language has in fact a long term value on access to this information, I was actually delighted by the sense
it. So when our spiders come back, we say it came back on such- of the absurd and also the warning at the beginning of your
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interpretive reports, in other words, where you’re actually linking C: Yes. And that’s quite deliberate. A) We needed a lot of
up what seem to be key words or key concepts, and… money to start with, and we need it every month, just on our
electricity and bandwidth costs, so we must raise those funds to
C: Yes. keep going. The other issue is that we did not want to take funds
from… Everything on this planet is in a state of flux. There’s no
such thing as a fixed point in anything, so we have to look at
K: …creating a storyline that might follow, where one event may things like a Taoist or a Buddhist, where everything’s shading
follow another, and then putting it in a sense, in time. But you from one into the other. And it’s, really, what part of the circle
have a huge disclaimer at the beginning in which you actually say are we looking at?
point-blank to people that: You could be considered crazy if you
actually take this seriously or follow it.
So we’re in the future-telling business. We do forecasting and
some parts of that, you have people over there, you know, for
C: That’s quite correct, and we have to do this. This is for Wall Street, etc., doing a very piss-poor job. And then on the
entertainment. We’re in a litigious society. The fact that the other end of the spectrum you have individuals that you have to
Universe chooses to put any kind of substantiation behind our watch out for, that are prophecy addicts.
words is not our fault. We can’t be blamed for any part of it,
failure of accuracy.
And this really bothered me. I didn’t want the karmic debt or
interaction with those persons, that because of their age and
And let me point out that we recognize we’re in the forecasting circumstances, are in the position of wishing to spend their Social
business, which is shading into fortunetelling. And on the other Security money on reading prophecy. And we shade close
side of that range you have prophecy, and that we’re gonna get enough to that that they might think that that was the case. And
involved with all those kinds of emotions. And we wanted to be so we were very deliberate. And if I could afford to set it higher, I
very clear about this. would have.
We’re not doing prophecy here. We are forecasting, but since K: OK, that’s very interesting and I picked that up. So what
forecasting, honestly, is future-telling, there is one sin in future- we’re looking at here, and I know that this is why we brought you
telling and that is accuracy -- good or bad. If you’ve very onboard for the moment to talk with you, is that you had made
accurate, that’s a sin. And if you’re not so accurate, that’s a sin. some very interesting, I don’t know if you use the word
And so we had to be very careful to sort of tread a certain line, “predictions,” but predictions… what seem to be predictions…
relative to the times we live in. about your data.
But we’re not out there bullshitting people. You know, we C: We say forecast.
charged a lot of money to get into our reports to start with, and
then we cut the price by three-quarters if you decide to stay on as
a continuing subscriber. And we’re running this whole… K: Forecast. OK, your forecast around the month of October.
And because, as Camelot, we have been inundated with
information about the month of October from various deep-black
Our business model actually relates to what used to be known as sources, including some intuitive information that we ourselves
“private science,” that ran in the 1800s, where people would get were getting.
together on a subscription basis to fund a scientist doing a
particular project. And they got the benefits of that before any of
the public did, but they had no right of ownership of it. And And we have, I think Bill would say, 13 data-points that all cross-
that’s kind of how we’ve decided what the model is going to be correlated with the month of October, which is very unusual in
here. what we’ve been doing for the last two and half years, which is
collecting testimony from whistleblowers and truth-tellers around
the planet.
Internally we’re a pirate ship in the sense that we’re a democracy.
We make enough money to survive. We’re not after wealth. If we
ever got to the point where it was sustainable, and fully funded, So because of that, we wanted to contact you and just have you
we’d just give it away free. maybe describe, as you have done on other shows, what you’re
getting for October, and then kind of maybe try to drill down a
little bit, based on what we are getting.
But the fact of the matter is, we have very high costs in
bandwidth. We’re eating up huge amounts of electricity with
servers. And so on. So I think I might fit into middle class in the C: Our information for October is part of a context that we’ve
United States. My server-slave Igor works doing this job and then been picking up for a number of years relating to what we call
two others just to keep himself and his future wife going. “The Death of the Dollar.” We started talking publicly about
“The Death of the Dollar,” I think on July 4th, 2007, but we’d
actually been picking it up in the data a number of years before
K: OK, but it also looks like there was a certain level at which that.
you wanted to kind of be a “gatekeeper” over this information, to
restrict access on a certain level, because it was, or could be, you
know, taken as very potent and/or, you know, I don’t know what We have a tendency to see, to find, really big events showing up
you want to call it. You said the word “hot” when we talked in a years ahead of time and it takes us a while to sort through
conversation earlier about certain issues. And the barometer for everything and really get a handle on what was going on. The
getting in is just raised really high. closer we get to the event, the more data-points we get within our
source that allows us to get a broader picture. So, at this stage,
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we’ve got a pointer that said we would hit a sort of an emotional continuously. That rarely would happen, I would think. It could,
plateau. but it just doesn’t seem to be too likely.
Bear in mind that all of our stuff is basically built around a K: OK, but what about the actual event itself? In other words,
numeric representation of what I think human emotions are, was the 911, I don’t know, “spike” if you will, matching the
relative to certain words, and I’ve used that form of input for that spike that you’re getting on October 7th? Or is it much higher for
as well. We had this data stream that said that around 9/22, October 7th?
around the 22nd of September, we would reach a point where,
from there until the 27th, we would have an emotional plateau of C: It doesn’t work that way, OK? Because our data can’t be
some high level of what we call Building Emotional Tension. compared exactly from 2001 to now, because in the nature of our
programming we’ve refined our technique over time.
And Building Emotional Tension is the state we’re in right now.
And everybody who’s worried about the market knows exactly So we have to state that right out, that we’re kind of in a sense
what that feels like, and what it does to their digestion, their like a doctor that discovers a new disease, and then over the
sleep, etc., hair falling out, and so on. So, it’s probably pretty course of time gets really, really good at diagnosing. And it
self-evident. spreads out -- everybody gets really good at diagnosing the
disease. And all of a sudden you’re seeing statistics showing that
And we then had data that suggested that there might be a little this disease is everywhere. And it’s just simply because we’ve
tiny dip from 9/27 until October 7th in terms of the amount of been able to look at it with a sensitization to the process.
that building tension, but it was basically still on that same
plateau. So we can’t make a direct comparison that way. Nor can we say
that there’s going to be a particular event at 7:10 in the morning
And then on October 7th.… And I chose…well, you know, the UTC.
Universe moved me to choose it, I chose ten minutes after 7 in
the morning, UTC time, which makes it ten after midnight my That’s what I’m saying: That my model-space, with the best
time here on the Pacific coast on October 7th would be the point granularity I’ve got, shows the whole planet starting to shift over
at which we would slip into what I call Release Language. into release language.
Release Language is where everybody is letting out the emotion, There may indeed be an event, and I’m kind of expecting
as opposed to letting the emotion in, in effects on their body. something, but it need not be either visible on the global media-
They just can’t take it any more, and they’re expressing that screen nor particularly intense at that stage to start the process off
emotion. Good, bad, or indifferent, they’re expressing it. So because we’re at such a huge level of building tension.
release has to do with expression. Building has to do with input.
The event could be as innocuous as someone showing up at the
And we’re going to get into a period that goes from October 7 LIBOR Bank early in the morning to go to work and the door
until… Now the new data run is showing it moved into about being locked and the key broken off in the door such that it takes
mid-March of 2009, pretty straight-forward release language that an additional four hours to get in. And LIBOR doesn’t open when
entire period, with no little stair-steps, if you will, in the building- it should. And a fiscal tremor goes around the world that crashes
tension language. the whole financial system. See?
It needs to be said that mostly life is up-and-down, up-and-down, K: So it could be a rather small actual event, is what you’re
you know, good days/bad days kind of thing in our giant saying...
collective. We rarely…and in fact have never since 1997 seen
anything in the models that looks like what’s gonna happen in
October, from October through the first part of March. C: Correct, correct.
K: And to make people aware of what you saw during 911… K: …but what it portends, or what it results in, is of very long
You didn’t see such a long release period, if I remember duration.
correctly.
C: Correct. Because that door was not locked. You know, for
C: No. That’s quite correct. There was about 6 days of a fairly want of a nail the horse was lost…
precipitous release following 911 and then there were three or
four days of less steep release. And then, basically on the 11th K: OK. I know that you said that, if I remember correctly… Like
day following 911, we were back into that stair-step building on Rense, you talked about that there were actually proportions
period. We’d already, if you will, absorbed the emotional impact within the actual event…
of the event and were starting to respond and build emotional
patterns to cope with it all. C: Yes, that’s correct.
So if we look at the two in a comparison the…not the level, not K: …that there were military a certain amount, economic a
the intensity of the emotion, but the duration of the emotion, is certain amount. Can you explain that?
many, many, many times longer than what was felt after 911. But
that isn’t to say that it’s gonna be emotionally as intense that way
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C: Correct. But that’s not within the event. That’s within the serendipitously. Rather, the data is coming back that nicely and
state of the model-space at the time the event occurs. neatly sorts, in all of our entities, into those categories that are
headed by those words. And I sure hope that was understandable.
Bear in mind, see, we don’t do prophecy. We construct a highly
quirky and weird little interface in time in a model-space in the K: Yeah, it’s kind of like packets.
computer and then advance it tick by tick by tick and watch as it
makes changes. And then, on top of that, we have to look for C: Exactly.
something significant.
K: OK. But I’m also interested in the way you’re looking your
So what we’re seeing is, at the point at which this trigger event or data, such that you’re interpreting your data. Do you find that
precipitating event, however we think about it, occurs, the looking at it changes it?
emotional tension balance is about 48% economic, shading up to
about 51% at the moment, but that may back down by the time
we get to October 7th. And then about 40 to 45% military. Then C: Yeah, Heisenberg… No, I don’t believe so. I don’t believe
the rest is what we call Terra Intrusions, which is really Earth it… If you’re talking about the Heisenberg Principle of
changes kinds of things, hurricanes, that sort of deal. Uncertainty kind of thing in the immediate scene, no, I don’t
believe that that’s the case. Undoubtedly at a quanta level there’s
some of that going on. Now, if you’re asking: Because we see
K: But when you say it could be a small thing that lasts five this, will the Universe change? We don’t know about that.
months in duration, it could be triggered by a tiny thing,
K: OK. What about the idea that you’re… I mean, somehow I
C: Correct. stumbled on your information quite some time ago, although I
didn’t remember it as being associated with your website. Then
K: Even innocuous. when you re-emerged, and you started to be, you know, sort of
have more of a media profile, if you will, which seems to be even
C: Correct. lately…
K: It could be something … I’m asking you… C: Right. Let me tell you why that is.
C: it could be a calamity. K: OK.
K: …whether it could be a virus for example, could be a release C: All right, let’s divert here for a second. Our model is built in
of a virus that at first is actually not even noticeable. this software called InteliCAD InteliCAD is an artificial model-
space, if you will, for drawing virtually any kind of an object in a
CAD sense – computer-aided design. It turned out to be very
C: I suspect that that won’t be the case in October. If that’s the handy for us because we can expand it at will.
case, the virus has already been released, because what’s gonna
happen is, the language shifts at that point. So somebody starts
talking about something at that point. Now, whether it’s a whole Part of our problem is that if we have people read our reports and
lot of people talking about it…? Make sense? then cut and paste the text out there, when our spiders read their
own words, then it’s considered to be self-reinforcing, and we
spiral down, and everything goes to hell in a handbasket real
K: OK, but there’s also, correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks quick. So we have to be very careful about who reads our reports
like you track what looks like “trends” in language. so that we don’t get ’em out there cutting and pasting this stuff
wildfire, because we end up spiraling down and we can’t do
C: Correct. Correct. anything.
K: Because I’m noticing that some of your key words are things In order to help prevent this I developed this software. In late
like revolution, transformation, duality. 2001 I started working on it and it went through 2003 and I
finally got it working and we called it MOMS. And that’s the
C: OK, they are meta data layers. Those are not key words. Model of Model-Space. And basically it’s a representation of
OUR work within the model-space, separate from the model
itself, a rather abstract, kind of screwy idea, but it works very
What happens is that we build our model-space. It gets all sliced well.
up into all these various different entities, and then over time we
allow the Universe to give us words to populate ‘em. And it turns
out that over time whole lots of words that all fall under the Within there, we model ourselves, for instance. And along about,
context of Revolution showed up in the markets entity, and let’s say December of 2006, basically MOMS started being able
showed up in our representations of the populace of the US, and to put out some forecasts for us.
showed up in global populace representation, and so on.
Now, this means I’ve got to divert for a second and say that my
So these are not keys words. We don’t go hunting for those. particular approach to reading these forecasts is based on sort of a
Those are derived contexts. And those are showing up non-western style of thought, and so I started taking them
seriously. And I thought to myself: Hmmm, wonder what would
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happen if I started harmonizing with what MOMS says might be deconstructive nature on it. It’s something that we must go
in my future? through. Let us understand that.
And that’s where we are now, because MOMS suggested that it A revolution is a horrible, terrible, brutal thing in which lots of
was a good time to get on out and “capture” October 7. So I said: emotions and people are shed, but it is a positive thing in the end.
OK, MOMS, I’ll do it. Good, bad, whether they win or not, the revolutionary means is
positive. But it brings along with it a lot of brutality and excesses
K: So in sense you’re running an experiment within an and so on. But you’ve got to get that out of your system, just the
experiment. way that we must have the coming crash in the economic system,
which will start on October 7 regardless.
C: A radical linguistic experiment, correct.
The data seems to suggest that, regardless of what the trigger
event is, over those next five or six months the economic system
K: OK. goes from really, really nasty now to something we don’t want to
even describe.
C: … can the future be altered?
K: That means that things like… I’m gonna ask you here…
K: But going out there, that’s actually… gets back to my Things like food shortages…
question. For example, you’re talking to us right now.
C: Yes.
C: Correct.
K: And specifically because you track English more than any
K: And we have quite an audience out there. And they’re going other language, is it focused on the US? Or is it because the US
to take this onboard and add this to the rest of the stuff we’ve keeps coming up? Because people do speak English all over the
been telling them. And, in a sense, that could act upon the event globe and on the internet.
such that either it won’t happen, or…
C: Rather the latter, and because everybody is so focused on the
C: Or it will. US, mostly hating us, or denying that hate, if you’re inside these
boundaries, that all those emotions are focused on the US
K: …or it may be modified in some form or fashion. Is this… whether you’re in the Amazon or you’re in Pakistan or wherever.
So, yeah, we have a tendency to be US-centric and I frequently
apologize to our international readers. We just can’t help that.
C: So it could also be totally transformed.
K: So what you are seeing in the future, at least in the next 5
K: Yes. months, linked to the October 7 economic situation, is that it’s
dire now but it’s gonna be something…
C: Let’s understand that release language could be good of bad.
Release language, for instance, might happen on, early in the C: Brutally true. OK. This weekend we’re putting up a new
morning on October 7, because some idiot pushes a button and report that continues to refine that, because we’re getting in new
starts off a nuclear bomb. Or releases a virus. Or does some other data. In the market descriptors, the market section there, we’re
nasty thing. gonna be describing it as brutally transformative.
Release language could also happen because 25- or 35- or 100- K: Brutally transformative. In your lexicon, what would that
million people wake up that morning and say: I’m not gonna take mean?
this shit anymore. I’m going out there and stand there until they
arrest that guy. And something changes. That kind of release
language is different, but it’s nonetheless release language. C: Well, that’s the return of the… over time, not instantly, but
the return of the equitable balance of population-to-resources.
Here we currently have a situation where 6 percent of the
K: But are you able to tell the difference when you look at what population on the planet is using 28 percent of the biota. That six
you’ve got, that it’s positive versus negative? percent had better get down to 6 percent, because that’s what’s
gonna happen. And any of the ramifications from that is all
C: Positive and negative have an interesting connotation within speculation.
our work, and within the lexicon and within language itself. And
a lot of it is culturally based. Will we have food shortages? Sure. Will we have rationing on
everything? Sure. Exactly where and when? That’s speculation at
K: Well, how about constructive versus destructive? this point. But it’s actually occurring as we speak.
C: Destructive. Yes, we are able to tell that. And at this point in K: OK, but in five months’ time it will become brutal or
our reading, in terms of how we’re going through the data, the unheard-of and then continue from there.
release language from October 7 onward is not what anybody
would consider to be pleasant, so you may want to put a
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C: OK. Imagine yourself right now in the United States, just a appear that humans are involved at many different levels, not
walking-around, regular kind of a guy, and five months from now merely at a shooting level, but also as perhaps some kind of a
you’ll be opening your eyes. Many of these people will be prize level, like, you know, we’re what everybody is fighting
encountering huge amounts of cognitive dissonance because it over, that kind of thing.
will be as though they’ve walked out of their house to just after
the collapse of the Soviet Union and they’re living in Russia. K: Right. You talk about human body parts, etc.
K: And is this a rise in chaos? C: Yes, exactly. Yes. Well, that’s actually coming from the
release of all the Russian and other UFO information around the
C: Certainly. No question. planet these past few months. Once that hit all the various
different language boards, it really started coming out as to how
K: OK. So are you tracking chaos itself? many of the crashes they had found human body parts catalogued
in.
C: We do have a chaos subset of contexts, yes.
K: OK. And just to come around to the election, because we
briefly talked about that. You said you don’t dial in on
K: OK. And are you seeing a rise in chaos that continues up to personalities, but you do dial in on incidents that seem to be… or
and beyond 2012? the trends around those events, such that you talk a lot in your
papers about confusion around the election time.
C: No. Our data sets is… As a rule, we start losing granularity at
about 19 months. That’s because of the nature of language, that C: Correct, which I think you’d have to agree we’re entering
most of the language, for instance, that might impact your into. The Republicans are confused as to with why McCain is
particular life in any given week that would extend beyond 19 doing whatever he’s doing. And everybody’s confused about the
months you don’t use. You would rarely use language that had economy, and it’s all affecting this. And McCain’s even confused
that level of duration. So granularity falls off after 19 months. about whether or not he’s gonna debate [the first scheduled
national TV debate with Obama] and it’s getting more confusing
So we did have some spotty bits of information and we’re as we go forward.
starting to put together this new entity that we’re calling
FuturePop that is gonna be about the populace that will exist in We still have information that seem to indicate that McCain
about 2018 and what they’re gonna be doing. could drop out due to health before the… actually near the end of
September, but really before the 15th of October. But it doesn’t
But there are curious sets of inconsistencies that are appearing necessarily mean that…
around 2012, and that’s probably because of the emotional
response that everybody has to it. But it could very well be due to Because we’ve already seen some of that language fulfilled. He
the biospheric conditions that we’re all gonna be facing. has withdrawn. He announced that he withdrew. It was from the
debate, not the campaign. But he suspended his campaign. So the
K: I found a really interesting point that was recurring in some of word campaign came in there, and it was due to the economic
these reports, which was talking about, in essence, what appeared health of the country. So it was sort of a quasi-hit. The language
to be a battle with aliens. we’d seen a year ago to that effect about this time actually has
started to appear.
C: Oh sure. Yeah, we’ve got really strange stuff in there that
suggests, for instance, that we’re gonna go through a summer of And that’s… George Ure calls this a rickety time machine. And
hell in 2009 here in the US that will precipitate a seething anger he’s got a real good point. There are big gaps in the technology.
and so forth into actual bloody revolution. AmRev-2 we’re calling And it’s not like it’s foolproof. And this is why we really have to
it. But it’ll just be part of a global wave of revolution against worry about all these people that think it’s prophecy and it’s
what we call The Powers That Be. gonna be written in stone. It just does not work that way.
This is also coincident with a meta-data layer that we call Secrets When we’re right, we have a tendency to be absolutely,
Revealed, where events of revolution goes on. Certain institutions spectacularly right. We refine it over time. We’re getting better as
will be captured by the populace and the data will be released we go forward, so maybe we’ll be a lot more right than we have
that’s been hidden for hundreds of years, which then starts its in the past. And in the past we’ve actually done, we think, twice
own set of threads and means about revolution. They’ve been as good as chance should allow.
duped.
In that sense, maybe McCain will withdraw finally. In itself, it
And if we go forward in time through 2010, we get into the area might not be good, etc., etc, increasing confusion. And we’ve
where we’re starting to get what we call Alien Wars… been talking about the fact that there’s just basically the dominant
information about 2011. word is confusion around the election, and we’ve been reporting
that since January of this year, but we saw it since probably June
Now this has to be understood, that the granularity out there is of last year.
very sparse. We don’t have a whole lot of details. It does appear
that this is not some kind of false flag operation. It also does K: OK. One thing that I’ve noticed is that you actually were
talking about McCain dropping out [of the first debate] and yet I
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think today in the news I actually heard that he has now decided C: And that’s deliberate.
he will debate.
K: …get California in the Scott Peterson.
C: Sure, sure. That’s what I’m saying. The stuff we get is not
written in stone. What we saw was the appearance of language C: Correct. And that’s deliberate because… See, here’s part of
that said: McCain / withdraw / campaign. Now we didn’t know our problem. On the internet we’re not actually after conscious
that there would be other words in between there because of the language. So we don’t go out and count the number of times
nature of what we’ve encountered. Beyond that, we didn’t know someone says California and match that up and say: OK, the
that there would be any supposition. earthquake’s gonna happen in California. We can’t rely on that
stuff because geographic references are so frequent. And we can’t
Now, also we have to acknowledge, time is kind of strange. rely on someone saying numbers. So we work on archetypes.
McCain may yet withdraw from the campaign as a whole and all
of that language together was what we saw even though it was So, you’re correct. Just like this year. We knew there was gonna
strung out over a number of days. be a large earthquake. I sent out a warning to our subscribers.
George Ure put it on his urbansurvival.com site some 36 hours
K: So it sounds like when you find language that matches, an ahead of the Chinese quake. We knew there was just gonna be
occurrence occurs, in a sense it’s kind of like solving the one great big whump of a quake. We had no clue as to where it
crossword puzzle, or in a way it’s almost like the Bible code. The would be beyond certain boundaries. And we refine this over
words themselves… time.
C: No, no. I would skip the Bible codes business, because the So the next time we do an earthquake predication… which is for
Bible codes will work on any sufficiently long text. And even if December 10th through 12th. We think there’s gonna be two very
you were to unscramble our DNA and just put it out there, the large earthquakes. They’re not necessarily in the same place on
various key letters, the Bible codes will bring back what you the planet, but they could be. We have some references that we
think might be meaningful. And that’s not how we do stuff. seem to think are valid for the Pacific northwest, where I live.
But it is true that there is a… This is not deterministic, and we We also have some references for the band of latitude 32 degrees
don’t know exactly how time will work out. And there is some… north to 36 degrees north, which would cover places life
a whole lot stuff about this that we just don’t know, that we’re California, Japan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, etc. And that’s the
learning as we go along. We’ve had new postulates form over the best we can do at this stage.
last couple of years, which we sit down and noodle on this stuff,
and they appear to be reasonable theorems at the moment. K: Are you emotionally affected by your work at this point?
And one of the postulates is this idea that there is bleed-through. C: I tell ya, I’m a depressed bastard, no question about it.
And the idea of bleed-through is best illustrated with the
Sumatran tsunami, which occurred at the end of the year. At the
beginning of that year we got the words for 300,000 people dead K: [laughs] Seriously?
or killed or missing / a nation pushed back to a previous age /
large earthquake / and electric-driven water. C: Seriously. Oh yes! I have to work at… I’m very diligent at
maintaining an appropriate mental attitude, at maintaining my
And then we also got words that said courthouse emptied due to health and those things that are important to me, and shutting off
the earthquake / famous personalities scrambling around due to the rest of it…because it is extremely depressing stuff. And I
the earthquake as they scrambled out of the courthouse, and so don’t report a quarter of what we actually end up seeing.
on and so on.
K: What’s your, I don’t know, “hit record” at this point, would
At the beginning of the year we couldn’t tell that it was two you say?
separate events, that in that year the Scott Peterson trial in
California would be emptied due to an earthquake and all these C: Well, I don’t know. I mean, we hit 2001. We had everything
famous lawyers and stuff would go scrambling around with all but the terrorism word. We had military plus accident, and so on.
the media, as they all emptied the courthouse building. And then We got anthrax attack. We got the Columbia space shuttle
another six-plus months would happen and the 300,000 people disaster. We got the disaster, the accident to the Greek athletes
would be killed or missing and the nation would be shoved back prior to that Olympics. We’ve gotten the quake for China. We’ve
to a previous age. gotten another wedding quake, subsequent quakes in Indonesia
we picked up on.
K: OK, but in this case you actually didn’t get the name of the
nation. Is that right? We’ve been very accurate with economics. Some of our
subscribers made a huge amount of money because we told them
C: That’s correct. about the Brazilian oil fields to be discovered about 8 months
before it occurred and they bought in on Brazilian oil-hunting
companies.
K: OK. And you also didn’t…
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So, as I said, we figure about better than chance. About half of We’re gonna live through some of the strangest times that have
what we say ends up manifesting in a way that we can say hit it certainly been around on the planet for many thousands of years.
by time or the language descriptors. And eventually probably And on the other side of it, those of us who pop out, we probably
about 55% of the language ends up showing up even if we all ought to get together and say Whew!
misinterpreted it.
K: So in a certain sense, you’re relying your entire model on the
K: OK. Bill, did you have any questions that you wanted to run “psychic-ness,” the intuitive psychic ability of people when
by Clif at this point? they’re speaking.
B: It’s been more interesting than [laughs] some of the C: Yes, in a certain sense, because they don’t know that they’re
interviews I’ve heard because it’s focused on some of the leaking out these changes. And I have some, if you will, “hidden”
methodology and the technology behind the forecasting which I knowledge that tells me that that’s a pragmatic way to go. And
and many other people find very, very interesting. The details that hidden knowledge comes down to a whole series of
have really been covered elsewhere. What’s also interesting, I enlightenment events I’ve had over the course of my life, and that
think, to many of the people listening to this, is that you’ve given have got me to where I’m at.
some indication of your own personal involvement in this.
I’m self educated. I didn’t go to college for linguistics. I don’t
C: Yes, in essence I have to, because MOMS had suggested that have degrees in any of these things. I taught myself to program.
there were some unique things that may be linguistic experiments Anything I’ve created I’ve done on my own this way with the
to be tried here at this particular point in time. And I’m willing to assistance of those in the universe around me. And it has
try that because the potential for gain outweighs the risk. chosen… the universe has chosen to provide me with some
enlightenment experiences that set my frame of reference outside
And because, to be quite honest, we are at that huge crux from of what we might think of as “normal.” And that has aided me in
now on. From October 7th onward we won’t return to the this ability to do this.
emotional levels that we’re at now, in a positive way, until
beyond 2012. George Ure and I have decided that if we’re still K: That’s evident in what you write. And, you know, I have to
here in 2013 we’re gonna get together and party like it’s 1999. say that we’re very lucky that a person such as yourself came up
with this sort of modeling technique.
K: OK. This is interesting, because you actually said there would
be a five month time after October 7. C: OK, there we would disagree, see, because I don’t believe in
luck.
C: Oh sure.
K: OK.
K: But what you’re now saying … you’re actually saying there‘s
a place that we’re at here, emotionally, that’s actually we’re C: The universe wanted this to happen and it created this way so
gonna go down from here to 2012 -- for the next four years? this confluence of events is precisely…
C: OK. Up / Down. You really shouldn’t phrase it that way. Just K: By virtue of who you are, this is why it was created the way it
like Buckminster Fuller used to bitch at everybody, because there was created.
is no up or down on this planet. There’s only closer to the center
of the Earth and further away form it. An in and out kind of C: Exactly. Exactly. The universe said: Well we need this thing,
approach. So let’s not use pejorative terms like up or down you know, in this time, so let us start altering and working on this
because that implies certain things. particular human. And, by the way, before I incarnated I checked
out everybody and said: Oh that would be an interesting life to
However, the emotional tonalities that we’re living at the live, and plopped into that human. And here we are.
moment, especially those tonalities associated with words like
normalcy and nostalgia, and all of this kind of thing, will not be K: [laughs] OK. I think that that’s really great and I happen to
seen again. From October 7th onward, we won’t recover those, as agree with that perspective. One thing that I’ve noticed about
near as I can tell in my data. reality is that in many ways when… if you want to track it, we
are aware of what’s coming because in a certain sense it’s already
And it may well be the case that, you know, those things that happened, because time is actually not linear.
come along, such as the global coastal events, subsequent
magnetic shifts, and perhaps even a crustal shift and the C: Correct.
destruction of most of the population on the planet, may indeed
be the reason for that.
K: So I think that that must also be influencing what you’re
talking about when you say, in a sense, that most people know. It
I have to say that the biospheric degradation, and the changes in sort of invades their language, if you will. Their consciousness is
the solar system, the magnetosphere, the heliosphere, etc. etc. all revealed by their language and their choice of language.
tend to support the idea that the language is spitting out to us, that
the bizarre days ahead are -- however inconceivable -- are
basically our destiny.
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C: Yeah, it actually ends up being… As we say, it leaks out. stuff like that. I’m talking about just linguists, and what they
Even if they wanted to stop it, I don’t think they could. know about how closely connected our particular expressions of
language, no matter what language we use on the planet, and
K: Exactly. They can’t help it because they actually do know. DNA. DNA itself is a language. And it starts tunneling in, and
It’s actually true that we actually do know and therefore we you start getting all these cross-connections. And you end up
choose, based on our knowing, without knowing that we’re doing with a view of the universe that says: Hmm, wonder what people
so. Or at least some of us. are saying today.
C: We also have to work around the limitations of the human K: Right. Well, that’s actually very good. In a sense, for an
brain relative to that as well, because the human brain has been example, if you say death, it can appear to be very limiting, but if
engineered to perceive time in a linear fashion. And at the same you say release, you’re actually talking about death but it’s from
point, the mind is non-linear. So there’s that kind of like duality, a very positive point of view.
both/and, juxtaposition kind of stuff there. So there’s sort of a
bleed-through both ways within the individual. C: But I’m not into sugarcoating anything. I come from a
tradition that is… I’ll be flat-out about it, it’s Aikido, and I follow
And then, because most individuals are in a state of denial about Osensei‘s metaphysical approach to things. And that relates all
the true nature of reality, it expresses itself, as we say, in the the way back to what’s known as The Complete Reality School
bleed-through or the leaking out of the psychic impressions. of Taoism.
K: But there’s also the levels at which you experience it. In other So no, death is death and needs to be treated as death. And it’s…
words, when you’re talking about this modeling technique, in a Positive or negative is someone’s personal view of how they’re
sense when you’re in one sense of the mind, if you will, where going to deal with that. And all death is traumatic and painful
you’re not being linear, then it’s actually not a problem because until the moment of separation and unconsciousness. It doesn’t
you see the long range and you sense that this is actually gonna matter. And there are “positive” deaths, you know, good / bad.
be good in the long run although it’s gonna be difficult to go I’ve been involved with a lot of deaths and the after-death
through. experiences of people. And it’s… You gotta face it flat-out. I
don’t like sugarcoating.
C: Well, yes.
K: Right, except that you, you know, you yourself are using this
word release language and it’s kind of, there’s something about
K: But if you’re in a linear state... that…
C: It’s rather frightening, yes. You feel trapped there. C: But that’s different.
K: If you’re in a linear state, you tend to sort of “Pavlov” into the K: …that is… Actually, as you’re tracking, each word does
fear mechanism and so on. contain an emotional connotation and actually the nature of the
word release has within it certain enlightenment aspects.
C: Right. And, you know, the Taoists say that an ordinary person
sees everything as a curse or a blessing, and the aware observer C: Correct. And release is in the context of... If we go into our
or the enlightened being or the sage, however you want to label death context within our model-space, you’ll find the word
’em, sees everything as a challenge. And that’s quite true, release in there, but release is being taken at a broader and a
because “good” and “bad” are labels we apply. different context in this case where we’re just talking about the
expression.
So, those people that are trapped in the linear view of the world
are indeed subject to this up-and-down, up-and-down, and they’re But it could be. And there’s nothing to say that all of the
suffering greatly at the moment, especially on this economic fearfulness, the wave, if you will, the big bubble or envelope, of
stuff. And they’re gonna suffer even worse in the coming months people being afraid of the mega-death that is coming is
and that’s expressed in the language that they’re pre-saying now. expressing itself in everyone worrying about pandemics and all
these other things, as well as people worrying about the kill-off
And so, all of our words, our whole language actually encodes all from The Powers That Be.
of this information. It’s just layer upon layer upon layer that
could just drive you crazy if you start me off on it. That is probably, in the nature of our work, a giant level of future
knowledge. The fact that we’re afraid of it, the fact that we’re
Because … Pre-saying, pre-sage, fore-cast … look at the roots of discussing it, the fact that we’re actually involved with those
the words, the etymology of how all this evolved. And you see words at this time tells us something about what’s coming down
that we’ve been doing this for countless generations. And our the next few years.
own language, taken from ourselves, encodes deeper levels of
meaning than our conscious mind is aware of. K: In other words, a sort of a self-warning.
And I’m not talking about the funny fellows that’re going out C: Correct.
doing reverse speech and trying to find hidden information and
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K: OK. Well this has been very, very interesting and I can see C: OK.
how you can really go down a rabbit-hole [Clif laughs] as far as
layer upon layer… K: There’s going to be an event such that it’s gonna clear the
skies, you even said.
C: Yes.
C: Right, but that may not be positive, because the chemtrails
K: …and getting into this. By the look of things, do you think appear to be The Powers That Be attempting to change the albedo
that, for example, and I know in a sense you maybe haven’t been of the planet and to reflect back radiation. All other suppositions
at this long enough, but is it possible that you could be looking at as to their activity seems to be secondary.
an event and a whole, you know, structure of things, that actually
suddenly could shift or change and go in complete opposite If they’re gone, we may suffer greatly. We don’t know yet.
direction to what you thought it was gonna be? Chemtrail pilots and those people that put the whole program
together may be absolute heroes, even though they may end up
C: Oh sure. We’re wrong all the time. That’s why I say release killing, you know, untold numbers of humans. Maybe other
language could be good release language -- Hooray, hooray, the untold numbers of humans will survive and the species will
parade’s passing -- or bad release language, you know -- Oh how flourish because we were able to reflect radiations that are
sad that the dog died. That kind of thing. Right? So release incoming and there won’t be that level of damage. We don’t
language is neither good nor bad but we could be certainly know…
misinterpreting it.
K: Well, let me ask you this. If… In a sense, my understanding
We could have from October 7 until sometime in the end of of chemtrails is… You’re saying the secondary effects may not
February that everybody could be quite happy because the be positive, but the primary might be exactly what you say it is.
politicians get it right for once, the banks cooperate, the Federal But if it’s secret language and it’s not released, how is it that you
Reserve does the honorable thing, and so on and so on and so on. think you could be tracking it? Because my understanding of
And we’re all happy with the economic condition and then what the chemtrails are doing is something else entirely, and it
everybody lays down their arms and isn’t shooting at each other sounds like you haven’t tapped into that. If it’s secret, it’s not
any more and the Israelis and Palestinians embrace each other as going to be talked about.
their long-lost cousins that they truly are. Now you tell me if the
odds favor that. C: Right. But we don’t deal in things that are talked about. We
don’t count words. We deal in archetypes and then, up through an
K: OK. But what I really want to know is not whether the odds interpretation, we apply them to what we see around us.
favor that, but whether or not the language and the model you’re
tracking indicates that. And my guess is that it does not. So, for instance, we’ve got an archetype of a maritime disaster
that would cause the whole United States to go into a great
C: It doesn’t. No. And I believe that we would pick that up. I sorrow. And we’ve got all of this information. And it turned out
don’t believe we could be on that side of duality without knowing not to be maritime per se, because we were off in the
we were there. interpretation of that archetype. And we should have just
translated it as “the ship” and then matched it closer to reality and
K: OK. So is it possible for you to say at this time that there is a decided that it was the Shuttle, the space ship.
positive change or that there is an action that people could take
that would change, for example, what seems to be a timeline, if So we did some of these things wrong. But at the same time, we
you will, that they’ve agreed upon, pre-agreed upon. don’t deal in conscious words per se. We deal in the archetypes
and let it bubble up from that.
C: Ah… not that I’m aware of. I’m not that smart. And I hope
that that would be the case. I kind of like the idea that maybe we So our understanding of chemtrails comes from the archetype
could all get together and decide that this particular set of fears that The Powers That Be are intensely scared and scared at all
isn’t going to be realized. And that was certainly the premise of these different levels. One of the things they’re scared about is
the generation I grew up in and all of the political action in the not going into an ice age. If we don’t go into an ice age, as in
’60s. Lovelock’s book, Gaia is doomed to go the way of, supposedly,
Venus. We get extra-hot and everybody’ll die off.
Whether it actually works at a timeline level, I cannot say.
There’s nothing I can recommend. I would be very… As I say, And so, usually at this particular point in our orbital permutations
I’m no one’s guru. I’m just out here, I’m more like the Oracle at we get to the 100,000-year cycle and we go into a mini ice age,
Delphi. And you take from it what you can and intrude into your which cools everything down, refreshes the oceans, etc., etc.,
life with it. And some people have been successful at doing that, That is not occurring at this point because we’re lining up with
and others haven’t. So, you really don’t want me to say: Oh, go the dark rift on the side of the galactic central, and we’re getting
and do x, y, and z. And I don’t want the karmic implications of extra radiation coming on in, which is heating everything up.
that. Everything from the GRBs, the solar radiation, the heliosphere
radiation pouring on in, etc., is raising the temperature on all the
K: No, but I did see a positive event that had to do with planets, in spite of the fact that, at this point in our cycle of
chemtrails that you talked about. 100,000 years, we should be cooling down, to the betterment of
the planet.
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So The Powers That Be got really scared and at least at one So, I’m sorry, but we don’t show Planet X. We also show all
bespoke level of their internal fear they wanted to react and kinds of things that are current in pop culture as falling in that bin
change the albedo by putting up a radiation shield that would where we don’t have an emotional archetype that supports them
cool the planet down as though we had glaciers all over the place, outside of the disinfo category.
as though we had gone into the ice age. They hoped to trigger it
that way. K: OK. When you say you don’t have an emotional archetype
that supports it, is it possible that you… there is a reason why you
Now, there’s also all kinds of other fears buried way down deep wouldn’t have an emotional archetype?
in the archetype that goes to some really strange stuff, like
they’re really afraid of the pineal gland in humans. C: Sure. There are some artifacts within our processing that
could certainly occur. I question… We have these debates
K: Right. The consciousness of our own power. And, on top of internally, and I question sometimes whether, for instance, we
that, also alien invasion. And on top of that, what about Planet X? would be able to accurately predict a meteor that would come on
And what are you getting in that respect? in and attack the planet, because it’s so far out in left field, so to
speak, that humans wouldn’t necessarily be cognizant of it.
C: The Planet X stuff is a non-starter. It appears to be almost 100
percent disinformation from our viewpoint, in terms of what we However, if we’re working on the alternate view of reality, that
call SKED: Subject Knowledge Elucidates the Domain. It’s an we’re all interconnected in the common mind, and our minds are
analysis technique. And within our data-sets none of the Planet X impacted by every other mind etc., etc., in a giant network, then I
material is as it is mythologically defined within our current don’t see how anything in reality could occur that could not
culture. communicate to that mind.
So, yeah, there’s probably large-sized asteroids, etc., zipping So the fact that I don’t particularly have a model shouldn’t matter
around, and even some mini-planets. But there’s no giant dwarf that much because it should reveal itself in the language, and I
star kind of thing that’s gonna come on in and cause that kind of shouldn’t have to root around and discover what that is. Just for
problem -- because the solar system, at one point, cannot survive instance, I did not have terrorism modeled. And words showed
such a thing. up that said military / accident / money center / within 85 days of
the middle of July. And it turned out to be, of course, the attack
That does not allow… For instance, the whole mythology does on the wtc and 911. And I didn’t have terrorism modeled.
not allow for what we call quanta effects of interplanetary kinds
of material. In other words, not just gravity, but there’s also K: OK, but I would counter that by saying because it wasn’t
antigravity, a repulsive force. And so, those kinds of things perpetrated by terrorists.
intrude on the idea.
C: Well, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Everybody applied
Plus, in our data-sets, Planet X is within a very deep subset of the label of terrorism to it. So the fact that my people are
what we call the SpaceGoatFarts, in an area of disinfo. We’ve applying the label of Nibiru or Planet X or whatever … it’s
never shown any of the Planet X info emotionally, in the context applying to an underlying context that should show up if in fact
in which we use, to come out of that category. that were some emergent basis in the fear.
K: OK. But it sounds like you’re putting your interpretation in In other words, we got a context, again one I had not modeled:
terms of the science that you know versus not being able to talk electric-driven water. And if I’d been smart I would have said:
about the science you don’t know. Force-driven water. Hmm, what kind of force could drive water?
And then it would have dawned on me: a tsunami. But I never
C: OK. There is that. That certainly is the case. But absent that, even thought about it. I went the other way. I thought: Ooh,
the whole idea of the context of Planet X as was originated and is electricity, storms, giant storms, hurricanes that happen at the
mostly… most completely embodied by the zetatalk thing… that same time as the earthquake.
has never come out of the disinfo bin in our SpaceGoatFarts.
Now, there’s a whole lot… Well, I was wrong about that. Electric-driven water was pretty
straight-forward, but we did not have any emotional quantifiers
K: Now what about Nibiru? In other words, are you having attached to the word tsunami in our lexicon.
problems with the choice of language here?
K: OK. Now I see you reference hyper-dimensional physics,
C: No no no. Because we’ve got it modeled on the various though, rather repeatedly in your documents here.
different parameters, all the way going back to Sitchin and
everything. And besides which, he’s was a very poor linguist and C: Correct.
mostly did a lot of bad translations on some stuff.
K: And I think that’s really interesting. So, are you able to talk
But the best representation of that kind of a model is a couple of about things like how that impacts what’s gonna be happening to
the scientists out there -- Paul La Voilette who is working on the us as we move into the galactic center? And what’s going on
electric universe model etc., and their concept as to how these with, for example, the Face on Mars, the pyramids, 19.5, things
small little intrusions are going to act. that Hoagland talks about, for example?
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C: Sure, and actually that developed because… A few years back Would humans be able to adequately project the result of
I started another thing, that the entities were shifting around and something like the change in the electron spin resonance level
we had to do some things… Like, we had this big entity which across the whole of the solar system if we get into some of these
we called Bushco, which was the amalgamation of the Bush energetic areas, in a way that we could meaningfully pick up? I
Administration and the Corporatocracy. And it severed. And it don’t know. We might be getting some hints that there’s some
came into the Bushistas and then in the markets etc. So the data huge changes along that level coming up.
changes on us enough to force us to look at this.
As for popping into the fourth dimension… the fourth density or
And a few years back we started getting all this Unknown something, we don’t have any words specifically towards that,
Energies from Space business. We didn’t really have a bin to other than we’re picking up some of those that are coming from
throw it in. It was tucked into the Terror entity, or sometimes it those people that are promulgating that idea out there. We’re not
would show up in the GlobalPop or the AmericaPop subsections: picking up any of the archetypes that I would suspect should
subsets-science, subsets-government, etc., etc. arise. It doesn’t mean that we won’t. We’re just not at this
moment.
And we’d get all these repeated bits of information that appeared
like they all wanted to go together. So we decided: OK, let’s K: OK, because, for example, it seems to me that maybe an
create a bin. And we called it the SpaceGoatFarts. archetype symbol would be the spiral.
And because it was gonna be in that area that we’d hold all of our C: [long pause] Yeah, but that’s all tied up in the idea of the
unknown and officially-denied space-based, but also eschaton and the singularity and so on. It’d be awful hard to
interdimensional, also, you know, basically hyper-dimensional, separate that from those previous contexts and apply it.
and all of this kind of stuff. As that data-set… As that entity has
grown over time and pulled in more and more sets of data on its We do see a whole… We do see mass kinds of changes coming
own, it’s forced us to examine this kind of stuff and to follow in at various different levels that are affecting the data at
some of these rather intriguing subjects, like hyper- unexpected places. And they’re pointing to things like, as I say,
dimensionality. the pineal gland.
Now, I have to say that I’m aware of all of this about electricity And in this coming report we’re gonna write about fluoride
since way back when. I knew about the electric model before because there’s gonna be a huge emotional wave building in 2009
even getting into the work I’m in now. And I’m also an about the damage that was done to people as a result of fluoride
aficionado of Buckminster Fuller’s work that he did through and its interaction with the pineal gland. And a lot of people are
synergetics. So a lot of this stuff that is being expressed at the gonna be very, very, very upset because they will feel that
level of hyper-dimensional physics has been out there in various something has been stolen from them. And I think that what
different places on our planet in various different formats and you they’re going to be feeling is that the potential or capacity for a
could have gone out and picked up little bits and pieces from here better expression of humanity has been stolen from them, once
and there. they know certain information.
What’s interesting is how many people have done just that and K: Wow. OK, well I’m… Thank you. This has been really
are putting them all together. And then we have to ask ourselves: fascinating. And I’m sure that we could go on all night but I’m
Why are they being motivated to do it now? Well probably gonna let you go here.
because we need to know about it now.
B: Clif, thank you so much for sharing so much with us. This has
K: OK. And then one last question and I’ll let you go because I been very, very interesting.
know this has gotten quite long.
C: Sure. Any time. And, you know, like I say bona fortuna to us
C: Oh, I’m fine, we can chat all night. I’ve got coffee. all. You know, good luck to us all. We’ve got some hard times
coming, so everybody needs to, you know, get strong to go long.
K: Really? OK. There’s a lot of talk about going from the third
to the fourth to the fifth dimension -- the actual Earth itself -- as a K: OK, well this has been great and we would love to check
result of the transformations that are happening on the planet. back in with you, hopefully after October sometime, maybe in
Have you been getting information about that? late October or even November.
C: We may be. I have to be somewhat vague because, again, it’s C: Sure, sure.
an issue of do we have it modeled correctly? In our
SpaceGoatFarts entity, we have a subset called unknown and K: OK. All right. Take care and thank you very much.
within that we have another subset called energy, and it splits off
into these various different areas. C: OK. Thank you, bye.
There appears to be a whole lot of information about extra energy K: Bye.

coming in from space. The data-sets might be reflecting major This has been Project Camelot and this is Kerry Cassidy and Bill
changes at levels that might go down to what we call the ESR or Ryan. It’s Friday, September 26, 2008. Thank you very much.
the Electron Spin Resonance. So, who knows what that’s gonna
cause? Clif High can be reached at: halfpasthuman.com
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Project Camelot:
Dr. Bill Deagle - Telephone Transcript
4 October 2008
BD: Yeah. For several years now I’ve been having some pretty
Dr Bill Deagle called us early in the morning (in Australia, powerful visions. And visions sometimes come in what I call
where we're here for the NEXUS Conference) to report a long “shards,” or “fragments”. And sometimes it’ll be what I call a
night of visions and received information about imminent events final “catalytic event,” or vision that’ll pull ’em all together, so
which left him shaken to the core. We've published this call you can see all the pieces of the puzzle come together.
unedited and immediately. The audio quality is excellent.
The best way to describe this -- and I described this, of course, in
If the information Bill Deagle reports is accurate, then nothing our talk on Sunday last -- that people that are really what I call
could be more important. connected, they are, if you want to call it, like the retinal cells in
the back of the body of mankind. They can see the light, in other
words, or the images coming. And as the images start to come
Bill Deagle (BD): Hi. Dr Bill Deagle here. together, one of their jobs is, in a sense, is to receive that and then
translate it through the body.
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi, Bill, this is Kerry Cassidy, and Bill
Ryan is with me right here. In various cultures where they are considered -- like the Hopi
medicine man or the prophets of ancient Israel or others – there’s
Bill Ryan (BR): Bill, good morning. always a percentage of people in the population that, from their
bloodlines, their genetics and their spirit DNA, they are called
BD: Yes. very connected or intuitive.
KC: Can you hear us? And, of course, you know I am one of those. There are many.
I’ve just watched a portion of an interview with Miriam
Delicado, and she’s another one.
BD: Yeah. Hi. Yes. Can you hear me fairly well?
KC: Yes. That’s absolutely true.
KC: Yes. We can hear you very well.
BD: Yeah. This morning what happened... and to describe this...
Start of interview If you’ve ever read portions of the Old Testament in the Bible,
you’ll see that sometimes these ancient prophets, what they
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi, this is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan would do is go to the... literally the back of the cave. And they
from Project Camelot. It’s very early in the morning in Australia, would, you know, put on sack cloth and ashes.
where we are attending the NEXUS Conference.
And they would kind of literally grieve in the spirit for what’s
We’ve gotten a very important phone call from Bill Deagle this coming, and try to intercede to actually change the timeline of the
morning, and he is on the line. He wanted to tell the world what corporate body of mankind around them -- like the ancient nation
he has seen. of Israel or the Hopi Indians -- or knowing where to go to places
of refuge.
We have already had a small phone call. And today is Sunday,
October 5, 2008, and Bill and I have already spoken briefly. We And the best way to describe this is... I call it spirit-pain, almost
compared notes. It seems that the information he is getting is like a pain that’s searing pain, that’s just like the most intense
coinciding exactly with the information that I have gotten and pain you can imagine -- but not in the physical body but in the
have not spoken about or released. spirit -- starting from the top of my head and going right to the
soles of my feet.
Bill Ryan (BR): And it’s Saturday, October 4, 2008, in
California. Bill, is that correct? This morning... coming in spasms, almost like contractions, like a
delivery, lasting so many minutes and then just letting go. And
just, you know, tears and a feeling of terror. And images. And
Bill Deagle (BD): It is indeed. Yes. It’s Saturday, October 4th in
images of people... literally, colors gone, and kind of a bluish
California, and it’s around 6 minutes after 1.00 pm Pacific time.
faded light. And people literally spinning around, holding the
sides of their heads, screaming in terror, not knowing which
BR: OK. direction to go.
KC: OK. Go right ahead, Bill, and tell what you have told me. A feeling of unleashing and knowing that whatever’s going to
happen, even if all the events don’t all happen, they’re going to
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start on Tuesday the 7th of October, and... [gasps] I’m starting to Because, if you think of the work of the people, literally
go back again. exchanging their time -- which is their blood -- for money, all
money is blood. It’s basically your time on this world. You’re
KC: OK. Bill... allotted time, converted into the means of commerce, and you
exchange that for goods or services.
BD: It’s so intense, it’s hard to describe. It’s almost like you can
feel this intense kind of terror coming over the whole body of And when the Congress did this, it was a willing blood sacrifice
mankind, that you can feel palpably, that’s so powerful... Think to the global Luciferic financial system. And it’s a preparation for
of the most painful thing you’ve ever had, let’s say, like a root a sacrifice of America.
canal or a broken bone, or something that’s so intense you can
actually almost see spots in front of your eyes. Think of that in KC: OK.
the spirit. That’s what I feel. It’s a... [sound of pain]
BD: So, I believe that the next major event will be a false-flag in
KC: OK. Bill, I totally understand where you’re coming from. I the United States. I don’t know if it’ll happen on the 7th, but I
really do. I’m hearing you. I appreciate where you’re coming know that the forces will be unleashed on the 7th.
from.
Something’s going to happen on the morning of October 7th
BD: Yeah. It’s very strong. And I had this happen before that’s going to unleash the forces that are going to result in...
Oklahoma City, before 9/11, before Katrina, before the [Banda]
Aceh tsunami, right before the attack with tectonic weapons on I see martial law coming. I see financial collapse. I see empty
Sichuan, China. shelves. I smell the smell of violence in cities, and gunpowder. I
see troops marching. I see blue hats. I see black ski masks. I see
Each of these, I had, you know, what I call... The best way to all kinds of terror things happening.
describe it is a night terror, or a feeling sometimes coming in
little flashes, lasting seconds to minutes over weeks and so on, And, I see strange signs in the heavens, too. I see a sky that’s red,
and then finally kind of, like a crescendo, rising towards a red sky with clouds. And I see objects in the sky. Now, I’m not
something where it’s going to culminate. And then the images sure what they are. But I can see some strange things happening
start to pull together from these little broken shards into a full in the heavens.
image.
BR: Bill?
And this morning... that event is starting to happen. They’re all
coming together. And I’m not sure exactly all the events, but I
believe the economic things that have happened in the last few BD: Yes?
weeks are part of that whole process.
BR: We have all, between us, spent time figuring out what sorts
KC: OK. of events these might be. As best as you can apply your intellect
and analysis to this, what do you think you are looking at in the
real world?
BD: [noise in background] I can hear the Blue Angels, by the
way, over my head because we’re really near Miramar Air Force
Base. We’re right beside Miramar, just south of Pendleton. BD: I’m not sure in terms of the timeline, but what I see in my
spirit... I see a financial collapse preceding a blamed-on-Al-
Quaeda nuclear event happening in a U.S. city, or one or more
KC: OK. cities.
BD: What I see is a kind of terror that makes 9/11 pale. It is a KC: OK. Bill...
kind of a horror that is economic. And I see people spinning
around in terror from destruction, like a bomb going off.
BD: I see people...
I can feel burns. I can smell burning human flesh. I can feel their
physical pain, their absolute, you know, stark paralysis of the KC: Do you see where this could be happening? I mean, I
horror of everything that’s happened to them, of the survivors. personally have had similar visions, so I have an idea of where
this is. And it’s totally OK if you don’t want to say where you see
that.
And it just makes me shake inside. It’s just like... and you want to
intervene. You want to somehow stop it, and you’re trying, but
you can’t. You can’t stop it. You know, we’re praying. And BD: OK. Well, the thing is, I’ve known -- in the physical -- that
that’s what I’ve been doing this morning. I’m saying: How do we they’ve been doing operational war games, just like the mini-
avoid this? But can I feel it coming. series, Jericho, we discussed in the interview on video.
This bailout -- I found out in the spirit, because I get what I call But I’ll just go back a bit. Back in... I think it was 1987, I was
spirit-knowledge -- was actually a willing blood sacrifice. traveling on I-80 just south of Chicago and I had one of what I
call my visions. And literally, like the blink of an eye, like the
fiftieth of a second, I can be gone into spirit for minutes to hours.
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And what happened is, at that moment I was not driving there. I inside source that 22 American cities contain suitcase nukes kept
was standing on the side of the highway. And I could see people regularly serviced by the US intelligence community.]
walking and RVs and the road, just people crawling along a few
miles per hour. And a lot of people walking on the sides of the And in fact...
highway, and people crying. And I looked back, and I saw this
giant mushroom cloud rising.
KC: OK. But I mean, do you want to say where you are located
at the moment? Are you comfortable with that?
And I asked them what had happened, and they could hardly
speak. And they were saying that they saw the destruction of the
core of Chicago. And I’m not sure if that’s the city, but that’s just BD: Yeah. I’m in southern California right now.
one of the visions I had.
KC: OK.
Then I’ve seen other cities, a city in an area that’s very flat. You
know, it could be a plains city. It could be Los Angeles. BD: And the location that is the most probable from the visions
Whatever, it was a city that was very, very flat. The landscape I’ve had... Remember now, I’m getting little flashes, almost like
was not hilly. seeing little video clips, only tiny little short flashes. It’s a very
flat terrain. It’s an area that’s in a warmer climate. It’s an area
And I saw this, you know, it was like 20 or 30 blocks vaporize. that’s near the coast. It’s an area where there’s a massive
And I saw people running around and screaming as shards of population. It’s an area where there’s lots of freeways.
material were flying. And they looked up and they could see
through their hands, and they could see their bones almost like an KC: OK.
x-ray. And then, of course, immediately afterward they were
blind; they couldn’t see anything. BD: Kerry, it’s in a valley.
So, I’m not sure what the timeline is. But I know that the events KC: I think that covers it sufficiently.
that are going to be unleashed Tuesday are going to result in a
nuclear event in a U.S. city. And it will be one or more cities that
they’ll do it in. BD: Yeah.
KC: OK. Ah... OK. Thank you for telling us and sharing your BR: Well, actually there will be a lot of people listening to this
vision. Ah... who aren’t familiar with the local terrain. What places fit that set
of descriptors? Because I don’t know.
BD: And it could be now or it could be next spring, but I know
that the events are... Something’s going to happen Tuesday, and BD: Which places fit with that?
it’s a financial thing that will set in motion the events that will
result in this. BR: Yeah.
It could be as early as the middle of October, but I know that BD: Ah... [long pause]... the top on the list is Los Angeles.
what’s coming is martial law. And it may not last that long
because they don’t even have the troops or the capacity to
KC: Right. OK. Bill...
manage the entire population. But I know that they are trying...
It’s like Katrina.
BD: Yeah, there are really no other cities that fit with this.
They’re preparing the population for a much wider and larger
event, just like they prepared Oklahoma City for 9/11. This is the KC: I want to ask you some things that’ll take us in a little bit
next step from 9/11. And Tuesday the events are going to unleash different direction just to...
this next event.
BD: But...
KC: OK. Bill, I wanted to ask you if you are OK with us saying
your location at the moment. Because, as a psychic intuitive, your KC: And, you know, we can come back to this. OK? As you
location to the event will influence the depth of your vision, so to know, we were just... On Friday obviously they approved the
speak, I believe. So are you comfortable with saying the city and bailout. And as you say, this is a blood sacrifice.
the state? Or would you rather just say the state?
BD: Yeah. This is a Luciferic sacrifice.
BR: Or is it possible that that would be misleading, because
some people in California might become very terrified by this
KC: What I found interesting is that it is also... For example,
and it might not actually...
Iceland is also doing a bailout at the moment. That was in the
news. There are other countries in the world at the moment that
BD: Yeah. I don’t... Actually I do know what cities are the target are actually doing similar kinds of bailouts for their banks. Some
cities, and I know which ones are the most likely to be struck. are in the news, and some are probably hiding it.
[Ed. note: see Bill Deagle's December 2006 Granada Forum
Lecture, in which Bill testifies that he has been informed by an
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BD: Right. BR: Yes. Understood, Bill, about that. And...
KC: Ah, there is also... We’re getting some information, very BD: I believe that the bank run will be the most probable first
small, about what was called a “bank holiday”. major financial event that’ll occur as these banks start collapsing.
And I don’t believe it’ll be mainly American. It’ll be European
BD: Yes. That’s very probably going to happen. In fact, it could banks, like the Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Belgium. The
be that the bank holiday event will be the thing that may be called banks in Europe are the primary ones that I feel in my spirit are
once the stock market opens on Monday. I’m not certain, but I most likely to go down first.
know that the event that’s going to catalyze this entire thing will
be financial. The event on Tuesday is a financial event. BR: Yes. Understood, Bill.
KC: Yes. And do you see... We’ve also been getting some bits KC: Would you advise people to take their money, their cash,
and pieces of movements of troops. Ah... not only... out of the banks at this time?
BD: Yes. I’ve been having visions of seeing Chinese troops on BD: Yes. Get it out of the banks quickly. Convert it to gold and
American soil with black uniforms, and a special crest on them silver coins, food, supplies. Have water. Have means of
that looks very strange. It’s like a triangle on yellow. protection. And if you’re in a big city, any big city in the United
States, Canada, or Europe, have, even if you stay in the city, have
I’ve seen in my visions the movements of boxes off of containers a route to get out of the city quickly when you see the signs
on the west coast. I’ve seen the activation of people that looked occurring.
like they were just regular citizens; they were Oriental. And all of
a sudden they were donning uniforms. Make sure that you know how to do civil defense if there’s a
nuclear explosion that occurs in a city, or the release of a
I’ve seen rail cars arriving up through Mexico that had special biological, which is also another possibility, because I’ve been
markings on the outside, and they looked like they were very new having images of release of a pandemic.
containers. They didn’t look like they were old recycled ones.
And they had special markings on the side, coming up through And I don’t know when that’s going to occur. But I know it’s not
Mexico. just a single event that’s going to occur here, with a nuke, that
there’s going to be a pestilence that’s going to occur, perhaps
KC: OK. after that.
BD: Something’s happening. And I see the movement of KC: Yeah. I...
submarines off the coast, both the east and west coast, that
include both Chinese and Russian submarines. BD: I believe that the first event will be financial, the second is
nuclear, and the third event is a pestilence, a spread of an Avian
KC: OK. We have also been getting information about flu.
something in Britain. Have you gotten anything in that regard?
KC: OK. I get this as well.
BD: Yeah. Some of the catalyzing events, I believe, financially,
may not start in America. They may start in Europe. BD: One, two, three. Yeah. Those are the three sequences:
financial, nuclear, pestilence with Avian flu.
KC: OK. There’s also information out there that the bailout was
actually wanted by the European banks and by various BR: OK. Bill, in terms of the questions that the people listening
institutions overseas. to this will be asking, and the PR that surrounds a so-called
terrorist event, just like it did surrounding 9/11... What would the
BD: Yeah. In fact, that’s the reason why... is that the bailout is public presentation, or rather, what would the presentation to the
not enough. The word I get in the spirit is that it’s not enough to public be, of the connection between any financial situation and a
stop the hemorrhaging. It’s like someone who’s bled out 20 units nuclear event that would be based on an enemy state or an enemy
of blood and you give them 2, and hope that, if you can put your group? Is this going to be presented as a coincidence?
finger over the hole, they won’t die.
BD: Well, one of the visions that I had last night was, I saw a
And, this bailout is not going to be sufficient to stop the number of senior leaders of the Saudi Arabian royalty contacting
hemorrhaging. In fact, it’s actually going to encourage it. It’s the members of the Bush administration and senators, and
almost like when you give someone what’s called platelet-poor demanding that this bailout money be given first in line to them
blood. They don’t have enough platelets to clot the wound out so and to their banks, because they’re teetering... Which I thought
that it’ll stop hemorrhaging. was kind of strange.
It actually encourages further hemorrhaging. As the banks And they wanted to be first in line; and there was a lineup of
scramble to get funding to stop their bank collapsing, the bank banks. And the issue was, who was going to get the first dibs at
run starts. this money, which is basically buying bad debt. It’s almost like
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buying, you know, something worthless, and mortgaging the KC: Right. I’m wondering, because of your background, whether
future of Americans. or not you feel that this is the sort of thing that you could
communicate to the, you know, authorities? Or is it simply that
So, it’s like taking peoples’ property and literally throwing it into the authorities at this point are just so compromised that telling
a pit. And the people are lining up, these countries, as to who’s them...
going to get first dibs on that. Who’s going to get this debt, and
who’s going to be able to haul it away? You know, and sell it to BD The “authorities” are doing it. The authorities are doing it.
America and get real assets?
KC: I understand, but the lower-down echelons...
What I feel is that this is primarily to bail out European and Arab
banks that insisted on it. That there’ve been some deals going on BD: Yeah. The lower echelon would probably be interested, but
that... between these various power brokers and those that are once it gets higher, they’d wonder why. They’re very well aware
talking about doing a false-flag. that I have one of the highest levels of...
And one of the things that I saw many years ago, in 1988, was a KC: They must know that you’re getting this information. They
vision of high above the Strait of Hormuz, and the Strait was cut must know you’re in contact with us. Did you call us because...
off. This was not an act by Iran. It was an act by our side. And
the Strait stopped, and there was no shipping, and in an instant
the world economy crashed. And this was the fulcrum event that BD: Oh, absolutely. I called you because I was told to. I woke
actually started the movement toward the final invasion of the up, I was having these... And I said: What am I supposed to do?
Middle East by communist China, and the events that are going
to transpire in the next years. And the spirit told me: You must go to your study and you’ve
gotta just sit there and then you’ll receive it.
K: OK. Bill, can I ask you... have you shared this information
that you’re getting this morning with, for example, your own And I was just sitting there, and I said: Oh, I’m supposed to call
family? somebody. So I started going through my list and trying to pray
and discern it. And then I said: Well, they’re in Australia. I can’t
BD: Yes, I have. Yeah. contact them.
KC: OK. And spirit said: Try the Skype.
BD: I’ve shared it with my wife. She understands. Because when And, of course, Bill wasn’t receiving on the Skype. And I said
these happen, sometimes I can have little pieces that don’t make OK. And then I said: Well, I can forget that.
sense, but when they start to come together, I know it’s very
close to the event. And then spirit said: You must go to the phone directory and just
dial the number.
This is like the morning I woke up and was having a terrible time,
on the day of 9/11. And I was, you know, having these spasms of I said: Well, it won’t work in Australia. And I dialed your number
pain, but the intensity with which I had it this morning was 100- and you were there!
fold worse than at the time of 9/11.
So that’s the kind of level of communication I have. It’s
KC: OK. I was... instantaneous. And events like this happen to me every day. It’s
not unusual. I mean, if I was to write all of the events that
BD: This is really bad. Whatever it is, I can feel it coming on, happen, it would take an encyclopedia.
almost like a very serious sickness through the whole body of
mankind, you know, like an attack. And, of course, of trying to KC: OK. Thank you for that. It’s very valuable. Is there
force the timeline of mankind toward an eventuality of anything...
destruction rather than of liberation.
BD: Yeah. In other words, there’s a connection at the highest
And I believe, of course, that we can change that. But, realms, literally bringing this connection forward, because people
unfortunately, I don’t see the signs of the intervention happening, are going to be in such a state of shock.
or people waking up enough to kind of steer us away from that.
And it’s also... this is something else, you know. I saw signs in
And the worst part is the fear. Because what I see happening is a the heavens. I saw, as I said, a red sky. I saw objects moving
massive increase in fear, which is an astral or spirit sacrifice to around in the sky that I don’t recognize as normal aircraft. I saw
these higher Luciferic gods, if you want to call, the things happening that were, you know, very shocking to the
transdimensional entities I mentioned. Fear is actually, if you people of the world.
want to call, almost like the movie for children, Monsters, Inc.
It’s, literally, they drink it for their energy. And I saw climate shifts and super-storms. And I saw things
happening that just, you know... droughts and famines. And
things coming where the Earth is literally gonna go through some
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very, very amazing and frightening things that I call “signs in the And they’ll use both conventional weapons, as well as crowd-
heavens”. control-type of directed-energy weapons, you know, pepper spray
cans that can hit thousands of people at once, and other types of
KC: Is there something that you’re getting in terms of close technology.
events, you know, in proximity to time, that people can do to
prepare themselves, spiritually as well as physically? Do you But yes, they are. You know, it’s hard for them to control all of
understand? Because we’re talking about people -- there may be the side routes. So, if you have, you know, an alternate route
large amounts of people... Even Half Past Human, Clif High, has map, you may be able to get out of the city by going out on the,
been getting that there may be as many as... What was the kind of, these little side highways. But if you try to, you know,
number? they’re actually going to try to ring around all of the large cities
when they start to clamp things down.
BR: 22 million.
And one of the first things they’re gonna do is, they’ll shut off the
KC: ... 22 million people affected by what he saw as an event grid. The grid is going to go down. As soon as they declare a
that at least began on October 7. state of national emergency, the grid will go down, the store
shelves will immediately be completely cleared, within 3 hours,
in most cities.
BD: Well, the number I that received many years ago from my
contacts inside these lettered agencies I worked with, was that
when they do these events that affect one or more cities, that it Well, the biggest thing is not just food, but people are gonna run
will kill, immediately, between 200,000 and 2 million American out of water within hours in some places where the water’ll be
citizens. And it will be in the core of large US cities. And it will shut off. In other places it’ll continue running.
be the start of pestilence and famines and other things.
So they need to have: Water -- #1. Food -- #2. Things that they
KC: And at this time.... can barter with.
BD: Well, the timeline that I feel... I think the financial events You know -- I talk about it continuously on my Nutrimedical
will be first. And as the banks start to collapse, this is going to be Report show, and it’s on my website, nutramedical.com -- they
a runaway situation which I believe will result in a bank holiday, need to get ready for pestilence, radiation burns, a possible
and people panicking, and... just like they started to panic and radiation cloud circulating the planet, from a local or regional
started to yank their money out of, last year, Northern Rock, in nuclear war in the Middle East. The explosion of a city, with an
the UK? And then, of course, they just recently did it at the banks anvil of radiation going downwind.
in Los Angeles here, just back in the spring.
And they also need to be prepared for kind of keeping themselves
As the insolvency in this debt-load doesn’t... Because I believe in touch with their spirit as to which cities are in danger. I believe
it’s gonna probably first strike in Europe. And then people are that large US cities sitting on a plain or a valley, in a warmer
going to realize this is not a US problem, it’s a global problem. climate, you want to be prepared to be either out of the city...
And what we’ve been doing, actually, is, they called on America Primarily exit west, or south, or north, but do not go east of any
to bail out banks in Europe that are now insolvent. of these large cities.
And that’ll start a run coming back, hitting the smaller banks as KC: What about airports? Do you feel that people will be able to,
people pull their money out of small banks and put it into ones at this time at least, use the airport to get out of here if they
they think are going to be more likely to weather the storm. And decide that that’s what their inner truth tells them to do?
then eventually they’re gonna start rolling. So I believe... That’s
what I think the sequence of events will be. BD: The airports -- If there’s a window to get out of the airports,
it’ll be before they declare full martial law, which will occur after
KC: I understand. What would you say... I mean, are they going a bank holiday. The airports will be the first to close down. They
to be closing, for example, methods of escape? Because there will actually...
be some people listening here that will want to get away.
I had this from my classified sources as well, that there’s 56
BD: Yes, they are -- not only in the spirit, but in the physical. transfer points into Canada. And they have hardened them down
so that they can lock them down completely to 6, with titanium
bars, kevlar cages, and glass, remotely-controlled weapons. And
Yeah, they are going to close methods of escape. In fact, I know they can actually lower entire vehicles, even long trailers, you
this from working with FEMA and seeing their Special Classified know, 60-foot long, with an elevator directly into the ground, to
Operations manual as late as the late ’90s. be soft X-ray scanned, and to interdict anybody in the vehicles
and remove any weapons.
They have two, what’s called “perimeter zones”, around every
large city. The first one is “near”, which is near, usually, the So they have that already set up. That was actually being
circumvential highway. And there’s another perimeter zone, completed at the end of 1999, before 9/11, and it’s now
that’s usually made up by foreign troops or mercenaries or people absolutely completed as of 2003. So they’re gonna close off and
like Blackwater Security, that are going to be 30 miles out. lock down the border to Canada. And it’s a little harder to lock
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off and close down Mexico. Most of the area there is pretty nasty BR: Yeah.
desert.
BD: ...with troops moving around the country, with weapons
KC: Are you making any provisions for yourself and your systems, with a plan to lock down. Lots of things, all planned to
family? Because I have to say that you’re quite... You’re not at occur.
the place where this may happen, but you certainly are close
enough where you might want to make other plans. KC: OK. We have also gotten reports of tanks being activated in
Britain for some purpose.
BD: Oh, yeah, I’m making preparations. I have made some in
the past, and I’m going to make some further preparations today. BD: Well, of course, the British have a tighter control of their
But yeah, we’re dealing with a... population on a small territory than anywhere else on the planet
except for maybe Israel.
KC: That’s good to hear. I’m glad to hear that.
KC: Right. OK. And can you say more about... because there
BD: Yeah, I think I’m going to make further preparations today. will be Europeans and Australians. Obviously, we’re actually
I think people need to be prepared, to have a run-and-go pack, to speaking later today at a conference, and we are going to play
be able to flee large cities. I think they need to be prepared to, this for the audience there.
you know, to get away from areas.
BD: Well, I believe that one of the things that people have to
I don’t believe that the event... the event is not going to be, you understand is, the problem is that, as we head into the summer in
know, what I call these events like a tsunami, or Cumbre Viejo the southern hemisphere and we head into the winter in the
[Ed. note: an island in the Canaries that could collapse and northern, the shortage of food is gonna become very acute,
cause a tsunami on the East coast of the US], or any of these between the economic collapse and the climate shift. And the
things -- now. first major event is gonna be the mass starvation of 100 million
people in the next 12 months.
The major event I see on Tuesday is going to be a financial one,
and a series of dominoes resulting, starting in Europe, that’s KC: OK. And you are convinced of this information that you’re
going to result in the bank holiday, martial law, and eventually a now speaking to us?
nuclear event, and then pestilence within the following 1 to 2
years. Those are the timeline and sequence of events that I see BD: Yes, I see this as the start of the mass starvation of a major
coming. chunk of humanity. And it’s going to start this winter.
KC: OK. Thank you. That’s very succinct. BR: Yeah. And...
BR: Yeah. Just to clarify that then, Bill. The timeline of events, BD: And the second thing that’s going to have to happen is...
as best you can interpret your own... what’s been coming to you The climate shift has already chewed away at the crops in
here... it’s not necessarily that these violent events are going to Australia, with the drought, the spread of Puccinia graminicolous
happen this week, but some... fungus across Africa, and the largest locust plague in hundreds of
years across Africa, right through to the Middle East.
BD: No. But they’re going to be unleashed on Tuesday. The
final unleashing will be an event, one that’s going to bring a lot The climate shift that’s been occurring is causing massive
of terror. Basically it’s gonna be almost like a lynch-pin. It’s like droughts and massive floods in other areas. And the speculation
when someone’s shoved out of a window, I guess is the best way on food, purposely. On top of... Now they plan to bring in and
to describe it, and you’re gonna fall 70 stories to the ground? The introduce genetically-modified, cloned, food that will destroy the
shoving and the falling from the window is going to occur on biology of the people and make them very, very weakened to
Tuesday. The hitting the ground will not occur till later. pandemic. So all of this is in motion now.
BR: I understand. And so... KC: Speaking of clones, we have also been getting some
interesting information about clones that have been manufactured
BD: Yeah. In other words, there’s going to be a free-fall of and possibly released, or are about to be released, actually in
society after Tuesday. Something’s gonna happen on Tuesday Mexico, of all places. Have you heard anything?
that’s gonna bring terror. It’s gonna bring financial devastation.
And it’s gonna bring war and pestilence. And it’s gonna bring BD: Well, a lot of the laboratories that they have used are not
these false-flag events, as a distraction away from the bank just in areas of America. They have been doing labs down in
holiday and the state of national emergency. Mexico for years. And that’s where a lot of these things that are
found by people in strange areas, or isolated areas, of Mexico, are
BR: OK. So... from these clone laboratories, where these chimeric monstrosities
escape from the laboratory.
BD: False-flag events are already planned and in motion right
now... And they’re also, of course, working in underground facilities at
cloning human beings that have had inserted transgenic genetic
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enhancements to bring in genes from animals so they can Otherwise, there’d be no purpose for a prophet. All a prophet
enhance their physical capacities to make super-soldiers. would be would be a seer telling people there’s nothing you can
do about it, that you’re just a bit of flotsam and jetsam pushed
There is a facility doing experimentation and research in along by the timeline of events, and you really have no control of
America, in collaboration with the communist Chinese. But the your future.
largest facility on Earth is outside of Beijing.
And nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, that’s the
KC: OK. And what about... why do you think that people like core of the central lie of all religions -- I call it “real lies going
yourself, and I have to say myself, are being given these pre- on” -- that Yeshua Ha’Masaich Jesus spoke about. Because he
visions, if you will? Do you think there is a purpose behind it? spoke against religion, as the opposite of relationship and the
spirit-truth which actually controls all reality.
BD: Yes, there is. I think that it’s like the 100 Monkey Theory.
And it’s not just the monkeys observing other monkeys so that And that’s what’s going on right now. They’re trying to convince
they start to learn how to, you know, wash their food in seawater, us we can’t control. So, when people get overwhelmed with
or whatever, so it has more taste or nutrition, or whatever. fear... And what I talked about this morning wasn’t fear. When I
was going through these, you know, spirit-spasms of pain, I
wasn’t in a state of fear. I was in a state of intercession, which
It deals with a thing that the corporate body of mankind -- when means becoming aware of what’s going on, tuning into it, and
visionaries pass the vision, then they literally give the option to then try to give people alternatives so that they can stop it.
make decisions that change the timeline of the whole corporate
body.
But we have to rise up now. There has to be a level of rising
consciousness out of the populations of Earth, or this will not be
We don’t have to have all of this, or the fullness of this, averted.
overwhelm us like a cataclysmic tsunami. We have a choice to
kind of co-create whether our future’s going to be, you know,
stifled or derailed. KC: OK. Thank you, Bill. I think that’s really valuable for
people to hear, and very vital, along with the information that
you’re giving here.
And I’m sure that there’s been numerous events that have already
been stopped or delayed significantly in the last number of years,
just by actions by people like yourself, Project Camelot, by BD: Yeah, the key thing, if I was to make one statement: If by
myself, by many others that are intuitives that can pick up what I our inaction and our silence we allow the financial events to
call the spirit knowledge that transcends time/space, that, when it proceed, then we have given a willing blood sacrifice that’ll
goes back to the body, it brings the people to a level of awareness precede the events, starting on Tuesday, the 7th of October, that
that they can start making decisions and preparing to survive will result in the sequence of nuclear events, pestilence, and,
disaster, and to avert it, and to pray against it. ultimately, the destruction of our planet.
In other words, to start visualizing and taking physical action and And so, we have the time now to actually repent of that, speak
spirit action, I call it, where we can derail this. out, and do not drink in fear, even when we see events starting to
transpire, but to start being pro-active, to start taking personal
events and spiritual events seriously that we’ve perceiving
Because, really, the only way that these things can be done is if happening.
we willingly allow it. Just like the bailout. There should be a
march on Washington, DC, on Monday. There should be millions
of American citizens putting signs in their windows and their And being not only our keeper, but the keeper of our brothers and
cars: No Bailout! There should be a degree of rage that every the people in other countries -- because they are also in the
congressional and senate office is inundated with calls and process, by bringing about this financial collapse, proceeding
emails. Because the bailout is a willing blood sacrifice. with the first stage of the economic eugenics, of killing the first
100 million of us.
And without the willingness, then the sacrifice of America is not
acceptable. And silence and inaction in the face of this This is like, in the body of mankind, cutting off our right hand.
abomination is, in fact, a willingness to allow the process of the So the 100 million that are distributed in the third world are about
next stage of the sacrifice to proceed, the ceremony, if you want to be sacrificed.
to call, on the grand scale.
KC: Right. And so we... the fact is that people can act, and every
KC: Yes. So speaking about it is not to bring it on. But speaking act that they take that begins to go against the possible future
about it, from the point of view that you’re coming from, and that’s being outlined here...
people like you, is as a preventative measure, to waken others.
BD: Exactly.
BD: Yeah. That’s what a prophet does. The actions of a prophet
are not to prophesy an event that can’t be changed. It’s to KC: ...is actually an act of prayer, if you actually take action
prophesy pathways and timelines that you can then decide based on spirit-knowledge, as you said.
because you are co-creators of your own future.
230
BD: Yeah. Prayer, in a sense, is what I call Voice. In other set a sequence of events, like dominoes, in motion, that’s gonna
words, you’re speaking Voice or Intention into reality. result in some terrible things.
And by us also communicating that with others, we speak -- just KC: OK. Thank you very much, Bill Deagle. This is Kerry
like I’m doing now -- I’m speaking not just words of knowledge Cassidy and Bill Ryan, Project Camelot and Project Avalon. And
or wisdom, I’m speaking what’s called spirit-words, just like all this is, again, Sunday. We are in Australia and it is actually
the prophets would speak. Saturday in California. And that’s October 4 in California, and
October 5, 2008, in Australia as we speak.
From all backgrounds, whether they’re native or non-native,
religions all over the Earth, there were always those that were BD: May the Spirit of the Most High and the Creator of the
intuitive enough to see in the spirit realm and to know that universe, which is the I AM, which is their spirit, speak to them
danger’s coming, that were cyclical dangers of the cosmos and and their mind and body. And may they have the intentions of the
the galaxy, or those created by others to create chaos to get Holy One who said Let there be All That Is, and may they not
control of their “Order” out of the chaos. drink the waters of death. And may they not become a willing
sacrifice. And may they not allow these evils to be on the Earth.
And that’s what’s happening, is they’re now going through a
ceremony to bring about the chaos that’ll bring their “Order” into Because darkness is not the opposite of light, but the absence of
control. And we don’t need to participate. But we have to not be it. And by bringing these things to light is not to bring terror to
a willing sacrifice, by resisting it. the people, but to bring comfort, to bring control, to bring a sense
of empowerment to everyone who hears this.
KC: Absolutely. OK, Bill, we’re going to close this now.
KC: OK. Bless you. Take care.
BD: Yeah. I appreciate it. This is what I was supposed to say to
you today. And I hope it gets out quickly, because people need to BD: Hey, take care.
start spiritually interceding now, all over the Earth. Because the
events are... we only have, now, several days. And the events that KC: Bye.
will be unleashed on Tuesday, if we don’t avert this, it’s going to
.
231
Project Camelot:
Rebecca Jernigan -Telephone Transcript
4 October 2008
I do remember, before I went underground myself, that I was

making sure that I was not being watched, that any of the, what I
call the
Big Brother cameras, were not watching, that other factions --

when I say “factions” it means like other species, other races, and
other people – did not see where we had entered into this
underground facility.
Now, interestingly enough, down in... this underground facility

was broken apart into several different things.(Understand that
Kerry Cassidy: So this is Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot.
this is a conceptual dream, not necessarily totally in its entirety
And I’m on the phone with Rebecca... and Rebecca, I don’t know
factual or futuristic, because it does get discombobulated within
how to say your last name.
the dreamtime.) But there were... there was a group of people that
had been scarred, sickened, and illness, by nuclear fall-out.
Rebecca: That’s OK. It’s JERN-I-GAN.
There was another group of people that had been contaminated
K: OK. Jernigan. Rebecca is a radio host, hostess, from the
with different contamination. They were all contaminated with...
middle of America. She’s also a psychic intuitive and does
whether it be poisoning or biological warfare.
readings for people. And I have called her after our conversation
with Bill Deagle this morning to get some of the things she
There was another group of people that were what I had called
herself might be getting, to see how they might match up.
people that had at one point had a lot of wealth, money, finances.
They did not know how or what to do. They were totally helpless
Ahead of time she has not been told what Bill Deagle had to say.
because they never had to worry about survival. You know, they
So, Rebecca, let’s just put this on the record. And then you can
simply just had everything, and did not know anything about how
call me back, and we can do it again after you’ve heard the
to take care of themselves or anything like that.
information.
Then there was a group of people down there that were very self-
R: Sounds wonderful, Kerry. I appreciate it. Well, actually, this
sufficient, what I call the “aware” people. They were very aware.
particular... I call it a dream. They really aren’t dreams. I call
They were running around trying to assist people and awaken
them my visions-of-future, or future-time, if you will... they’re
people that all was not what it appeared to be.
very distinctively different. And through the years I’ve had very
few of these. And most of them have been futuristic implications
It was quite an extraordinary dream, inasmuch as there were
of things that have come to pass.
many, many, many different things going on in the different
compartments of this dream at the same time.
As an example, just to put this on record, before the Oklahoma
bombing, I actually had a future-dream-vision of the Oklahoma
Here in the middle, I was standing and I was observing all of this.
bombing. It was extraordinarily unsettling. At the time, I didn’t
I did note that there had been somebody trying to... that had
recognize what they were, until after the fact.
actually found the location, and they were trying to get in.
So that being said, the last few weeks I’ve been plagued with
And in this location, there was some person that was inside this
what I call these dreams, and “plagued” is a very good word to
underground facility – again, this is just a kind of generic concept
use. One in particular stands out, Kerry, that I will share with
here -- that had the ability in their mind to neurologically disable
you, that had so many implications to it.
these people, so they had no idea of where they were or what they
were doing. They did feel like, to me, that they were not of this...
I was actually assisting people to go underground. There had
of our human species, as we know it, anyway, for most of us...
been communities that had been put up underground, and I
and had disabled them through their powers of their minds, so to
happened to run across one that hadn’t been already occupied. I
speak.
was assisting people to get underground to a place of safety.
So all of that being said, I just felt like it was very, very... in the
Safety could be physical endangerment, can just be climatic
not-so-distant future, that it was sitting right upon me.
changes. And when I say that, I’m talking about politically,
financially, all of those things. So the implications here were
There’s a point of reference. That last big one for me I had,
wide and varied.
which was the Oklahoma bombing that happened -- and there
was several others prior to that -- but it’s usually a 2- to 4-week
232
spread. Usually it’s what happens when I have these types of Rebecca: It’s Journeys with Rebecca.
dreams.
K: OK. And the website is the same name?
It takes a little bit for me to kind of pull them apart and put them
in their proper perspective. And, unfortunately, most of the time R: Yes. journeyswithrebecca.com.
it’s the 20/20 hindsight where I go: OK. Now I understand
exactly what that meant. This is what this is about. K: OK. Great. OK. Go ahead.
K: OK. That’s very valuable, Rebecca. Can we say where you’re R: I just want to preface this. If anybody has any comments or
located? And the name of your radio show? anything they’d like to share, they can also use an email address
to send it to the mailbox at journeyswithrebecca.com. Because
R: Yes. I’m in Kansas City, and the name of the radio show is this is about sharing information, about people being in the same
Journeys with Rebecca. space and working together as a community as much as we can,
being that we’re all over the globe literally, every one of us are.
K: OK. Very good. Is there anything else you want to tell us
about information you’ve been getting recently? So that being said, I was absolutely blown away by the reference
that Bill Deagle made to the Oklahoma bombings. What I heard
R: The other information that I have been getting recently is that when I was listening to that is there was a great awakening
we are... And it’s like a... I call it the “nausea syndrome.” I get among intuitives, psychics, clairvoyants -- whatever you wish to
really nauseated when a big event is getting ready to happen. I call us all -- during that particular event in our history that was
get very nauseated. And I get, nerve-wise, I get very jittery, like a “mass message,” if you will.
which... I’m not prone to that, you know. It’s like the air is
charged with events and happenings. I thought that was pretty interesting that he shared that with me,
Kerry. It really hit home with me, some of the things he was
It really started when they started going through this bailout thing saying.
with the U.S. And it’s with some of the things that’s going on
with that. Everything is so wrong about that. It’s so wrong. And As I look back on that particular last vision dream that I had,
the core of my being is screaming. It just screams. It just which was just a couple of weeks ago, by the way, I realized that
screams: It’s wrong. It’s wrong, because the event is kind of like it’s a “compartment” where everything that he had been talking
the catalyst for other events, and the dominoes are gonna start about -- which was the nuclear fallout with the one people; with
falling. the biological warfare, or you know, he called it the Avian flu.
And there were those that I would call “privileged”, really
And, unfortunately, I believe that the rest of the race, humanity, if weren’t part of the bigger group of the underground, that would
you will, is gonna get lost in all of this. It almost feels like it’s be sent to places of safety. That kind of thing. I realize that these
almost too late to do anything. That’s the feelings, and that’s the were different factions of humanity and how they’re kind of
sense-impression that I get. separated -- And you know, put it into a proper perspective for
me.
K: OK. Thank you for that. OK. Well, today I’d like to say the
date and the year. So if you could go ahead and say it for your So the whole thing with listening to what Bill [Deagle] said really
location in the U.S., because I am calling you right now from put into perspective other dreams that I’ve had, prior to the 9/11
Australia, where we are attending the NEXUS Convention. For catastrophe that we had.
us, it’s Sunday, October 5, 2008, and its 8:30 in the morning.
What time is it there? I didn’t understand it at the time. And I didn’t understand it until
I actually listened to Bill. I had a dream about what I call “false
R: It is 5:30 p.m. on the 4th of October, 2008. images”, and these false images were images of explosions. And
I never could understand what they were until, literally, today
K: OK. Great. So I‘ll let you go, and you can take a listen to when I listened to Bill.
what we have just gotten from Bill Deagle and just published on
our site. And, with your permission, we will publish this as well, All that was triggered, and this dream -- and I never shared it to
to give people a little broader perspective from another intuitive. anyone -- but I kept dreaming about the “false explosions”, which
was the 9/11 event, because they weren’t what they appeared to
R: That sounds wonderful. And I look forward to checking in be. I know we all watched it on television and all that -- and it
with you again here in just a little while. still wasn’t what it appeared to be. And still isn’t. The truth has
not been told on that one.
K: OK. Great. Thank you so much.
But, interestingly enough, you put all this stuff together, and I
R: You’re welcome! believe that what Bill has seen, and how you guys commented on
it all, is that it’s absolutely, just unfathomably accurate.
I got the shakes so bad as I was listening. It was that trigger

Continuation of interview mechanism, what I call when spirit comes in and recognizes
truth, the spirit in me and the spirit outside itself connected.
Kerry: Again, this is Project Camelot and this Kerry Cassidy and
Bill Ryan and we’re talking with Rebecca.... All of this is not, again, not to create additional fear and terror in
people. It’s really to effect a change. It’s very much like quantum
233
physics -- where you observe an event, it literally changes the

event. I can tell you that I do believe that this whole bailout issue is
really the “first of the last”, if that’s how you want to word it. I
So the more people that can help us on this in a positive manner, truly believe that this has been very carefully planned. And what
it can effect a change. And I have to agree, I don’t believe that all I heard was that it’s actually been a plan that’s been in the
these thing have to take place in the way that they are. making for over 30 years.
There will be some changes that have to take place, as we all I don’t have any other information except for what I’m being told
know it. This just cannot go on the way that it is. You have to by my own guidance, that they’ve planned for a better part of 30
tear down the walls before you can get to the good foundation. years. And they did show me some of the players, of course.
Some of the players are political people that are no longer even of
Humanity as a whole is a good foundation. It’s those that have this Earth plane, but they were part of these meetings and
chosen to take over and to determine what’s “best” for the rest of planning stages and all of that.
us, based on their own selfishness – greed and fear and control
and manipulation. It’s really what has changed humanity. And no This has been going on for eons of time. So I would tell people,
more can we really tolerate any of that. first of all, not to panic, and to try to be clear-headed and to really
look at this. If there is a complete economic meltdown, it’s going
That being said, you know... Certainly I have changed my to affect everyone. It’s not going to just affect the individual,
particular show in which several times – I do my show once a
week, Kerry, as you well know, once a week or at least once a So when you put yourself into that position, you have to think of
month, and I’m trying to push it up to every other week – I it like that. You have to think of it as: If I’m experiencing this,
started up a title of it called The State of the World, in which I’m everyone else is.
hoping to bring people forward onto the show to share this
information. So the rules no longer apply. Because I think that’s going to be
the toughest part for people to realize, Kerry.
Because there could come a time this information is no longer
available if everything gets shut down. I certainly don’t want The These rules are not the same as they were. I mean, even from
Powers That Be... rather, they certainly don’t want us to be able yesterday, the rules have changed, with all of these processes that
to communicate the truth to each other, and for all of us to know are all in place, that are taking place economically, and socially
we aren’t in this alone. and politically, across the globe.
You know, it’s about segregating us and keeping us in fear, I’ve been saying for three years it’s not been “business as usual”.
keeping us from each other. And helping each other is the biggest I personally have tried to get that message out to people. And,
thing. you know, I was so grateful when I found you guys and found
your site. I recommend it highly to everyone. So please go
K: Absolutely! What I wanted to tell you is that we are planning educate yourself!
to interview Michael St.Clair and others of our contacts and
witnesses to get their reactions to this information, and to see Keep an open mind, because I think this is the most important
where they sort of fall on the spectrum of whether they information. It’s what the news is not telling you. You know,
psychically tapped into this thing or not, and whether they think most everything we do get is... what most everyone will tell
this information might be misleading in any way. Because this, of you... is just very watered-down bits and pieces of the truth. The
course, is very important. rest of it is spoon-fed to them to make it sound good, to make it
plausible and logical to most people.
Very briefly, I have spoken with Michael St.Clair. He does not
think that this is going to take place in this way, but I haven’t K: That’s right. OK. Well, we’re going to go now because we
gotten the whole run-down from his point of view. have a lot of other people to try and contact in a short period of
time. I think we are working against the clock a bit, but I do
And, again, obviously Bill Deagle is speaking form his heart. He appreciate you weighing in on this and sharing your own intuitive
was on the verge of tears; he was pulling himself together in a information. And I hope that a lot people will also visit your site
very admirable way to talk to us today. and listen to your radio show.
You know, I’m really grateful that you would come on and also R: Absolutely. And you guys be safe. And really be very, very
share your vision before listening to what Bill Deagle had to say. safe, and be careful, and I wish you guys the best of luck. And
So is there anything else you can tell us about your immediate thank you very much for sharing this information. Peace be with
reaction to what you heard? you both.
R: Well my immediate reaction is that, that being said, when you

commented on Michael St.Clair, my first reaction is what I feel,
like, is that the timeline may be slightly off with what Bill Deagle
has to say.
Again, it just doesn’t feel like the timeline is exactly right. But I
do believe that some of these events will take place, whether they
come in the manner which, like synchronicity, as far as what he
was saying.
234
Project Camelot:
George Green - Telephone Interview Transcript,
21 October 2008
everybody’s being laid off. I mean, Ford Motor Company has

laid off another 10% of their staff. That was today. Its stock has
dropped down. All of the car companies, the sales are down 30
and 40%. Boeing’s people that are on strike -- I understand that
they may be laying off another 20,000 people. Nobody talks
about the unemployment situation.
And they’re also not talking in another area, which is the next
meltdown, and that is the derivatives area on credit cards
throughout the world. Many credit cards right now, in other
countries, aren’t being accepted. As you go to use a major credit
card, it won’t go through.
A 43 minute follow-up telephone conversation with George K: Ah...

Green on the world's economy... and what may happen "when
Obama is in office.
G: Because of the banking stream.
Start of Conversation
K: Fascinating. Do you know which credit cards?
Kerry Cassidy: This is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan from Project
Camelot, and we're here with George Green, hoping to get an G: No; they’re all being affected. It just depends on what the
update on the world today. And it's Wednesday where we are, credit people are doing. I mean, even...You can go check it out
actually, at 9 in the morning. And where you are, it’s 9 at night. from when the local credit people -- did they want to take the risk
Is that right, George? and making sure that they’re going to advance money on it to the
local people?
George Green: That’s correct.
So what they’re doing is, they’re just trying to get verification on
everything. So if you’re in a foreign country, like you are right
K: On Tuesday night. You’re on October 21st, the evening, in now, if the hotel or stuff will not take your credit card, then you
the United States. So tell me what’s going on with you. have to call for verification back. And that’s a possibility,
because that’s what’s happening all over, because most of the
G: Well, I’m observing the world meltdown right now in a lot of money being traded right now is digitized anyway.
different directions. As you probably are aware, the G-8’s
meeting... everybody’s getting together. And Bush went over to K: Right.
see Sarkozy in France. But the G-8 people are not willing to take
the dollar as the base currency from now on. So they’re
postponing their meeting till after the election, when Obama gets G: Now you have the other thing that happened. As you know,
in. the Iraqi government is not going to go along with the terms of
the United States right now, and they want to delay till after
Obama comes in, also. And that’s because they want to have
K: So what does that mean? Does that mean that our money isn’t control and get the troops out of their country.
good in Europe?
K: Oh, for sure. I’m sure. No doubt about that. But I believe
G: What they’re trying to do is get a currency that they count on. that’ll never happen.
Most of the world now is recognizing that the dollar is a dead
currency, because they just got through putting out, as you know,
another 250 billion into the banks. And under the fractional G: Well, that’s what they’re trying to say, that it’ll never happen,
banking system, that made another 2.5 trillion dollars worth of but remember, we’ve been doing all kinds of things with the Iraqi
debt available to put out into the system. But nobody’s borrowing people. So we have to watch the play going on.
the money.
Now, my other sources are saying that when Obama gets in,
K: Oh, really. within probably 3 to 4 months, Kerry, we have to do something,
because the unemployment and the massive repression that’s
going to happen around the planet -- actually going into
G: That’s correct. I mean, it’s made available, but everybody is depression in many places -- is going to cause the people behind
concerned right now. Because not only is that happening, but the scenes, in order to get something going, to begin WW III.
235
K: Right. Yeah. I do understand that that might be a tactic. What G: There’s about 2.5 trillion dollars worth of stocks that have
is going on with this Mutual Fund deal? Because didn’t they just evaporated. If you’re asking my professional opinion? I told you,
try to put money into propping up the Mutual Funds? I think a month ago, I said that the stocks would go down to
about 8,500. Well, it hit the 8,500, as you know.
G: Well, it wasn’t the Mutual Funds. You’re talking about the...
People were putting money into Mutual Funds as a backup for K: Yes.
the money. In other words, your cash, you put it into a cash
account and they put it in there. G: The next level... Well, it’s up over around 9,000 right now,
but I think with the melt-off that I’m feeling from other sources...
But what the provisions were, they said they would guarantee -- because OPEC is meeting because of the decline in the oil.
all these are Money Market Mutual Funds -- they would People are not acquiring things like they did. I see the stock
guarantee the Money Market Mutual Funds only for the people market going clear down to 3,500, frankly.
who had money in there at that time. Well, 12 billion dollars
went into Money Market Mutual Funds the very next day. So K: 3,500?
there’s a lot of negotiations going back and forth. So they want to
cover that too.
G: You bet.
Now that’s everybody that’s running around trying to save their
assets, Kerry. That’s the biggest problem we have. K: Wow. OK. There are people out there actually buying stock.
Who would you say that is? Are there people trying to, you
know, make a quick buck, and then get out again?
And I had a meeting the other day with some of my banking
friends in the real estate end of it, and they’re still expecting over
11 million foreclosures to happen next year. G: Well, the Mutual Funds are the ones that have all the assets.
The individual person is not doing... They’re just trying to save
themselves. And the ones that are sitting by with all their 401-Ks
And I’m having a meeting next week with two senators. And you and the rest of them, are just watching their assets going away.
know what, the last comment they made to me -- which I thought They don’t have a lot of control on this.
was very important -- they said within six months, you will not
recognize the dollar. So my meeting I have next week will be
very interesting on that. K: Yes.
K: Wow. OK. I mean, there is so much stuff going on right now. G: But the Mutual Funds themselves control 60% of the stocks
It’s coming incredibly fast and furious. that are being traded.
G: That‘s correct. K: Oh, really. So it’s the major funds.
K: I understand the stock market was down another 200... G: Exactly. The major funds. And the hedge funds right now,
because they were always betting on the market going in a
different direction. All of a sudden all of this is running away and
G: 250 points. it’s causing them to dump massive amounts of their stocks,
including their positions in gold and silver, and other
K: Yes. commodities, frankly -- which is causing a whole drift-down.
G: Now, the problem with the stock market is people are aware But the whole rest of the world’s in the same boat. China’s
that their stocks are being traded. They’re not aware that only a backing off. You know, China and Japan are still meeting, as you
few of the stocks... In other words, they may be in... well know, on trying to figure out a new currency, because
nobody wants to use the dollar. They want to break, you know,
Let’s give you an illustration: If you have 100 stocks that were the Bretton Woods Agreement, which said that we would use the
traded, 100 different companies, they can manipulate 3 or 4 of dollar as the “bank currency” and it would remain the level
those companies and cause the appearance that it’s going up. It throughout the world.
can’t shift 1,000 points in one day like it did without it being
controlled. Well, they don’t want to do that any more. And that’s what
everybody’s talking about. What kind of meeting can they have?
And the control mechanism is the Federal Reserve itself, through And they all... They want to have this meeting after the new
its “Plunge Committee”, which is basically some of the members president gets in. That means... My question is: When he gets
of the, as you know, the Federal Reserve as well as the office -- when he takes office in January? Or after he gets through
government itself, that are manipulating a few stocks in order to being elected?
maintain what they call “sanity” within the street. Because
everybody in the United States is in a fear mode right now. They So something’s going to happen in the next couple of weeks, that
don’t want to buy stocks. So there’s panic. we’re going to see the changes that are happening.
K: Sure.
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Meanwhile, the meltdown of the market’s obviously going to go G: And so, when the Feds have a meeting, they’re going to give
on. And the market represents nothing. It doesn’t have any him an education on trying to keep the Federal Reserve going.
business at all other than trading between the brokers. The trouble is, the Federal Reserve could collapse. So you’re
looking at a total collapse and a total depression, not recession, a
And this was on national television -- they sat down with the depression in the United States. And the rest of the world’s going
brokers in New York. They didn’t care which way the market’s to follow suit.
going, up or down, because they make money trading, whether
selling or buying. So they’re just having a field day with all this. K: Right. OK. So what is the currency that people are going to
be looking at in the future? Because if the dollar is gone, what are
And meanwhile, the American people -- their so-called illusion of we looking at? We’re looking at some major currency? A brand
equity is going away, as well as foreigners who bought into the new currency for the whole world?
drama.
G: Yeah. Well, that’s what... Yeah, a brand new currency is what
And that’s what’s happening. And the derivative market is sold the G-8 people are talking about right now.
out to the entire world in various denominations. And they’re not
even touching the credit card derivatives. And that’s going to I mean, some of the data that I got later on today was talking
come out in the next couple of weeks. about, you know, they have to do something in coordinating with
Japan, China, and Russia. And they’ve all said they do not want
K: OK. When you say what’s going to happen when -- I was the dollar involved. So the United States, of course, is trying to
going to say when Obama gets into office -- but when whoever push this.
wins gets into office.
And remember, it’s only been done by the idea that we would
G: Oh, Obama’s already named, Kerry. I’ve told you that before. have aggression and we’d go out...we’re the most powerful
people in the world... would have been allowed to stabilize this.
K: Yes.
Well, this is all coming undone everywhere. So you’re asking for
what the new currency is? I don’t know what. That’s what they’re
G: He’s been named the next president. And he’s already got the meeting on right now. And I’ll hopefully have more of an
Electoral College, so we don’t care what happens at this point. indication next week with the senators. Because, like I say,
He’s going to get the popular vote and the rest of it. they’re involved with some of this. At least they have the
information, you know, the stuff that’s being talked behind the
K: Well, he’s... scenes.
G: The rest of it’s just a show. K: Yeah. I bet. Well, I also wonder what’s going on, you know,
about their preparations for anything like martial law, that sort of
K: Do you think the election is going ahead, though, on thing. Do you think you’re going to hear anything about that?
schedule?
G: Well, they’re already making motions on that. I will know
G: Yeah. I do. Sure. That’s two weeks. more details about that at the end of the meeting -- I think it’s
next Friday or Saturday -- that I’m having with them. And we’ll
be discussing exactly which way to go. Because they’re trying to
K: OK. Yeah. You know that Obama is down in Florida right protect the same thing.
now meeting with the former head of, what is it, the Federal
Reserve?
Now, my CIA -- the Crooks-In-Action -- friends that I have
[Kerry laughs], you know, they’re just totally happy that they’re
G: You mean with Volcker? leaving the country or have left the country. They just don’t see
the United States as being a good place to be. [laughs]
K: Yes.
K: Right. So what they’re basically doing is living in South
G: Well, he may be. He’s gonna get an education. First of all, he America.
came into this thing... He’s being given information by a lot of
the insiders that are up close to the top that are trying to tell him G: That’s right.
which way to go.
K: And they’ll still to have to, you know, live their lives and
You know, Volcker and I actually flew together on a plane from have some kind of currency down there.
Aspen back to Denver. And, you know, this man at that time -- of
course, as chairman of the Federal Reserve, I figured was the
most powerful man in the world -- but he just represents the most G: Well, Brazil has its own currency. Tonight on television
powerful men, you know, the ones that run the Federal Reserve. they’re saying that they’re OK. They’re recognizing that we’re
going to have a slight slow-down there. But their economy is
based on what they have in the exported goods.
K: Yeah. For sure.
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Remember, Germany itself said they don’t care either. But they But GM, because their sales are down 30-some percent, as you
sell goods to other parts of the world also. The United States... know, and Ford’s 40-some percent. Will Ford exist in the next
Remember, we only have 4-1/2% of the world’s population. year? That’s the next question.
K: Right. So they’re all trying to look at it on a world basis, the merger of

things, and if they could come out with something new... Now,
G: The rest of the world can’t be running on a few things that’re India’s coming out with a new car, as you know, and China’s
going on over here, because we’re not consuming anything. come out with one, for $3,000!
I mean, there’s houses... Everywhere across the country that I go K: Oh really. OK. Well, what about the idea that’s in the news
right now, there’s blocks upon blocks of them that are for sale. today? India’s launching an orbiter to the Moon. What do you
Where I’m at right now, across the street two years ago was think of that? What’s that all about?
selling for $450,000. The bank sold it the other day at $126,000.
G: Well, that’s just to show that they have the nuclear power and
K: You’re kidding me! Wow! the capability. China and India are doing a 2-1/2-billion-dollar
new project together.
G: No, I’m not.
India has done two things. The United States has made an
agreement, and they tell everybody, to put a billion-dollar reactor
K: That’s amazing. in India. But India also made the same deal with Russia. Russia’s
going to put in a nuclear reactor. As you know, Russia’s been
G: Well, they’re trying to get cash. That’s the trouble. They have putting nuclear reactors all over. And this is to get energy.
to do that or the banks... It’s called REO, real estate owned, and if
they do take the property back, then they have to pull back, you Now, their refinery was a joint venture between China and India
know, unwrap the leverage position they had because of the on their border, a refinery for petroleum products. Now,
fractional reserve system. obviously with the slowdown... Now China’s having a
slowdown; India’s going to have a slowdown. But these two
Now, that’s basically what they’re talking right now, putting out countries together, as you know, China and India, represent
money into the banks so they can continue to gain. But nobody almost 40% of the world’s population.
wants to buy anything right now because they’re afraid they
might not have a job on Friday. And they’re in the position right now of not... Their food
production and everything is able for themselves at this minute.
K: OK. What do you think...? I mean, isn’t the writing on the So our exports -- because we’ve been living on exporting our
wall going to be really strong when December comes around and products and stuff to them -- they’re gonna ignore them in this
nobody, you know, is shopping, as the retail sector goes down? minute until we get some kind of level playing-field with the
money.
G: Well, they’re already reporting that sales are down. I’ve
already said that Sears and K-Mart both aren’t reporting sales So the next two weeks, like you and I are watching, when the G-8
right now, because if they did that, then their stock could go way meets, and if they continue the game until after a year – but I
down. And I’m saying the only way they can do is go -- what don’t think they can continue past after the election, frankly – at
they did a couple years ago -- go back into bankruptcy. that point we’ll know which way the moss is going to flow. I
mean, they’re going to feel comfortable about it and at that point
K: So what about this thing where Kirkorian is selling a stake in they’ll want to get a new currency so they can have some kind of
Ford? exchange going.
G: Well, he’s getting rid of all of it because Ford is technically That’s probably part of the reason that the Bank of International
bankrupt. Settlements, as you know, a couple months ago, got permission
from the Bush administration to audit the Federal Reserve.
K: Right. And I understand that GM is looking for a major

investor as well. There are so many things going on behind the scenes right now.
If they can audit the Federal Reserve... Remember, many
congressmen have been trying to do that for many years right
G: General Motors is an interesting situation, because most of now, even Ron Paul.
the car companies, if you look at it, got rid of most of their
liabilities when they dumped all of the pension funds, all of the
health benefits, on the Unions themselves. The Unions thought K: So what does that entail? If they audit the Federal Reserve,
they were doing a good thing by assuming liability but that was what are they going to find out? Are they going to find out about
upside-down. That’s not being addressed to the public yet. You black projects, for example? Or is this...
remember all the health benefits that supposedly the workers got.
G: They’re going to find out that they’re been... the money... the
percentage games... When you join the franchise... Like I
explained before, if you’re a franchise like Best Western or
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Marriott or whatever, you pay... A percentage of the income goes G: And all their stock has gone down today.
back to the franchisee.
K: All of it?
Well, the Federal Reserve is the franchisee. So they get a
percentage of everything. But they’ve got to give a fee back to G: All their stock has gone down. And Boeing has been on
the Bank of International Settlements. That’s the bankers’ bank. strike. Their workers have been on it. And the people in Seattle...
I was talking to ’em the other day. In fact, I flew in with ‘em.
Well, what if they find out that they’ve been lied to all the way? They were talking about, well, they’re probably gonna get laid
They’re just going to shut the system down and now we’re going off. Well, they could lay off 23,000 of ’em.
to be in something totally new and nobody really knows what’s
going to come out of this. Like I say, we’re going to be in a K: OK. But if the defense industry starts going down, then that’s
massive depression. when you have to look to the situation where they’re going to
create some “event”.
I’m hoping people will have at least two or three months’ worth
of food stored up. I’m telling everybody to get cash, you know, a G: There you go.
couple months in small bills – $1s, $5s, $10s and $20s – nothing
more than that. It’s just so you’ll be able to exchange, whether or
not they’re gonna be worth anything. K: Right?
I mean, there’s some talk, with some of my other broker friends, G: There you go. You’ve got the right idea, about what I feel;
they say we’re gonna have two currencies, one that you can use it’s the same boat. The next thing they’re gonna have to do is
in the United States. And something else overseas. Now, you address the problem. Because we’ve still got 40% of the world
know, you’re overseas now. Will they still accept the dollar? existing on less than $2 a day.
K: Well... you know, yeah, they’ve accepted it, In other words, I mean, everything‘s out of balance. We’re increasing the
I’ve traded it in, you know. I traded in the dollar. Actually, as you population on the planet, you know, 200,000-plus a day, or 5
know, they’re propping up the dollar at the moment. million a month. Where’s all the food? Where’s all the things
coming from? And it’s coming to the critical end.
G: Right.
It’s a challenge for us, you and I and everybody else I know, to
keep ahead of all the information. And I get tons of it thrown at
K: I mean, the US dollar is actually worth more right now than me from all over the globe. I mean, I get calls...
the Aussie dollar, which is supposed to be a good currency and
fairly stable.
K: Well, you’ve actually become kind of a focus-point, I think,
at this time, just because of your incredible, you know, financial
G: Well, they’ve done this. This is an arbitrary, you know, acumen, and then everything else that you’ve got going behind
thought-provoking thing. So we’ve got the government basically you. So, I mean, people are contacting you right and left. I’d love
nationalizing all the banks, nationalizing everything so they can to know, or be sitting in on some of those conversations you’re
say this is a strong currency. having right now.
But we don’t produce anything. Kerry, one out of 3 people in the G: Well, I’m sure. And I’d enjoy doing that, and I think at some
United States work for the government. point... I’m talking to people right now, of having some kind of a,
you know, maybe a weekly newsletter, up on my website, or
K: No! something that comes down on these things, to keep up with the
data that’s coming in.
G: That’s correct. One out of three people work for companies
that have contracts with the government. Meanwhile, they’re all talking in every direction about shutting
down the net because of the information.
Now we have the next problem: 50% of the people in the United
States -- that’s half of them -- are over age 50. K: Nah. Well, OK. Have you also heard about the situation with
these, I don’t know... ships? There’s like three of them out there
K: Right. Well, the people that are working for companies that with radioactive waste from out of Taiwan?
have contracts with the government is the military-industrial
complex, so you’re talking about companies like Boeing and G: The radioactivity is a real problem. Yeah, I’ve heard about
Northrop and so and so forth. And they are all... all about that, that they’ve put the ships out there. They’re going off...
building war machines.
We‘ve dumped so much radiation into the ocean, Kerry, and
G: Exactly. we’ve, you know... My friends down in Alamogordo called me –
that’s in New Mexico. The government, they said, is trying to
K: That will keep them going... burn waste. I’m talking about nuclear waste. You can’t burn that!
You just put more radiation in the air. That’s already the...
239
I mean, why did they start the Non-Proliferation Agreement have 100 shares trade in a stock, it determines the value of the
immediately after they stopped dropping all these bombs? That’s other 2-million shares that are trading. See, we have an arbitrary
because we messed up the atmosphere. That’s what’s eating holes thing that’s being manipulated by these few things.
in the ozone.
The Data Institute -- that’s a group of people that are in the gold,
So radiation is affecting everything, but it’s slow-moving. That’s and they’ve been checking and following this -- they’ve been
the whole basis... You can’t have radiation that’s being trying to get Congress to investigate on how they manipulate the
transmitted into people, like the crazy uranium [“depleted” price of gold and silver. Well, there’s only so much. The silver...
uranium], as you are well aware, that we’re using in shells. Yeah,
it hardens the shells and it does things. But look at the Iraqi I’m about 20 miles from the Silver Valley up here, the second
people! And look what’s happening to our soldiers coming back largest silver production in the continental United States, up here
here. in Idaho. And I was with the president of the company, and we
were discussing, you know, the global situation. We have maybe
K: Oh yeah. Absolutely. four-and-a-half-months of silver, overall, in reserve, to cover for
the world. What happens in four months?
G: And that’s... You know, all of these little pieces fit into the
puzzle. And when I talk to some of my medical professionals, The other problem is, the EPA and the rest of ’em are coming in
you know, on the problem, they don’t really have a solution on and they’re shutting down the mines because of what’s
this thing. Because this is not an instant thing where you kind of happening, because the mine’s price of silver is down. So we’re
click on, all of a sudden, you’re... You know. The cancers that are going to eat this up.
formed within your body... Because we’re kind of an adaptable
species. It’s kind of like having the oil people... OPEC is moving in the
same direction. Well, people have quit using it for a little bit. It
K: Exactly. Well, yeah. And we have to actually rely on that to won’t be too long before you won’t have the production there
stay alive. and, you know... I looked at, believe it or not, gasoline today at
$2.66 a gallon.
What about the prices of gold and silver right now? Because it
seems like they’re just keeping that stuff down. K: [laughs] So this should be good news, but in reality it’s a
problem. Right?
G: Well, that’s the thing. Sure. The hedge funds are dumping to
try to get liquidity, so they took big positions in the metal. I think G: Well... Because the next thing is, how many people now
that’ll be turning around in the next two weeks, frankly. aren’t paying their rent? How many people are out of a job? And
the government is now talking about extending more
K: OK. The paper versus the actual metal? Is there going to be a unemployment benefits. In other words, just giving money out to
discrepancy there? Or if it goes up, will it go up everywhere? people to go look at it.
G: Well, here’s the problem right now... Because I just got, am I talked to one of the workers that, you know, helps the senior
getting, 10,000 ounces of metal and my delivery time is like... 2 citizens that can’t take care of themselves? Some of these people
months? Forget it! And my silver and my gold... aren’t even getting food. I mean, it’s deplorable, just listening to
the stories of what’s happening. The food banks are out of food,
you know the ones that help people that go in for Food Stamps?
They have so many people now that are going to the metals. The They don’t have any.
price that they quote in New York right now is basically the
London market, which is done by paper that’s supposedly paper-
on-deposit. Wherever they have the gold and stuff, they’re selling K: Yeah. Absolutely. OK. We have been hearing something
the paper. And that’s supposed to be determining the price on it. about, I don’t know, something -- this is from a secret source --
saying to be very careful. Because, you know, I’m flying back
into the United States.
Well, I just got through paying a couple dollars over spot. I’m
buying two dollars over spot because there’s none available.
There’s something wrong with this picture. And they’re saying something could be up, that some of the
forces on a secret level are working very hard to make sure
nothing happens on US soil, saying between now and the
K: OK. And so... inauguration. Have you heard anything on that level?
G: Sure, they tell you that gold dropped down $20 today. And I G: Well, I heard two things. One thing, they were trying to get
said: Well, gee, I just paid -- Just to give you an idea, I paid $903 something so we could have a national emergency called. But
for an ounce of gold because there wasn’t any available. I’m concerned on two different areas on that.
K: OK. So... I don’t understand. How can the price go down? I think that you’re right. We’re in the stable deal. But, as you
know, my partner is a clairvoyant and she’s very... Let’s put it
G: Well, because the hedges are dumping their prices. This is an this way: She feels something’s going on right now as you and I
arbitrary... That’s the trouble with the stock market. When they speak. And she’s been talking to some other people in London
240
that are “friends like her,” and they say the same thing: Within So the big companies continue to gain, with Alaska as big as it is.
the next 60 days something major’s gonna happen. But they You don’t realize the size of it. If you started from Miami and
didn’t pinpoint what was gonna happen, Kerry. went to Seattle, that’s about the size of Alaska.
K: Oh really. So... K: Yeah.
G: And they don’t have many people up there.

G: Yeah.
K: That’s right.
K: So, are you guys planning to tactfully, possibly, exit, you
know, stage right, so to speak? G: And so, meanwhile, because of what’s happening on climate
changes and everything else, all these mineral resources and the
G: Well, I have my tickets, and I was just working on it, to go availability of having the Alaskan “government,” if you want to
down to Ecuador. I’m supposed to go to a couple places. I was look at it, being very favorable to the inner group so they could
gonna come down and see you but I don’t think I’m going to get on and rape more of the planet, you know, taking the mineral
make it. I may come down to Arizona. resources.
K: Well, I’m going to be in Arizona, so, you know, I wish you... Sarah was stopping all that. They said: If you’re gonna do that,
then you want to make it so the people of Alaska benefit from it.
G: Yeah. I may be doing that and then heading off. Tomorrow
I’ll know more of my schedule. But I do have tickets already and So they just dangled the bait: Hey, I’ll make you vice president.
I’m planning on... you know, it’s kind of family thing... but in the She jumped on it. The Lieutenant-Governor up there... The
next four weeks I’ll be down in Ecuador. Lieutenant-Governor of Alaska was just bought and paid for.
K: Really. OK. What do you think’s going to go on as far as So now they put her up there and she thinks she’s doing a good
once Obama gets into office? Because... I don’t know. I’ve heard thing. But actually the vice president has no power.
that actually that’s not going to help matters, so to speak, as much
as people think it is. K: [laughs] Right. Well, in the case where Obama wins, she’s
not going to be in the game anyway. And I sort of think she was
G: Oh. It’s not. Obama will get into it. They want to set this taken out by that family incident, where the... you know, he lost
whole thing up so the whole democratic thing all falls apart his job.
anyway. And he doesn’t know what he’s getting into, frankly. I
mean, he’s being pushed to get in. G: No. That’s a distraction. It was all over the other stuff, over
the mineral resources and stuff, so they could get control and get
It’s kind of like, you know... Sarah Palin, once she got, took, the her out of it. But that’s OK.
offer to become the vice president up there... They just got her
out of the way for what she was doing up in Alaska. K: OK. Very interesting.
K: Right. G: Well, it’s the power game. You know, absolute power
corrupts absolutely. But if we can get you... That’s the
G: She was doing good for the State of Alaska. Now they just aphrodisiac: We’ll put you in a position of power.
pulled her away from all the play.
Then you start looking... Always follow the money. These people
K: Oh, that’s interesting. are all manipulating. Why is Volcker having a meeting -- you
know, the former chairman, as you say -- with Obama right now?
G: And the story behind that is unbelievable. Maybe he’s gonna bring him up and say: Wait a minute, you
gotta help. You gotta do something to prevent the...
K: So she’s been distracted, basically, because of the whole oil
industry. What’s happening is, even most of the Congress, even though
they’re aware of the Federal Reserve, they don’t know that we’re
G: That’s it. That’s right. They get her out. being indirectly manipulated.
K: Why did they want to take her away, though? K: Oh, for sure. The game goes far beyond that.
G: Well, if you notice, in Alaska the senators and other people What do you think about Joe Biden? Do you think he’s really
are being indicted for fraud and that. And the people that going to make it into office, you know, as the vice president
control... behind Obama? Because we had word that Hillary was going to
be back on the ticket. And I know there’s only two weeks left
32 out of 33 of the strategic minerals in the world are located up [until the election], so it seems absurd that that would happen.
in Alaska. And the inner group up there was giving it to their But I heard that health problems might crop up, or it could be
buddies. How do you think they get all these new airplanes and other things.
all these trips and all the rest of this stuff? It’s a payoff.
G: No. I think he’s gonna get into office. But I think Hillary, and
the same thing with the other players... He’s just getting his Chief
of Staff up there. And I’m sure Hillary and Bill and the rest of
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’em’ll all be into some position and make a big difference. They K: Yes.
really will.
G: Yeah. Well, they’re above the Pleiadians.
K: Oh yeah.
K: They are?
G: You know, when you look at our dear retired general
[Powell], he’s already been Secretary of State for a couple of G: Yeah. The information I get is from a higher energy source
times. But, you know, ethically, he was just lead down the than the Pleiadians. I mean, they’re just kind of like you and I
primrose path when they came down to the deal in Iraq on the are. And most of the Pleiadians, frankly, I think have left. Most
whole stuff. But this is all part of that “intelligence community” of ’em have left the planet. It’s other extraterrestrials now that are
we have out there. You know, the CIA, the Crooks-in-Action. sitting there rubbing their fingers, hoping we’re going to destroy
ourselves.
K: OK. Well, what about Colin Powell coming out on the side of
Obama? Behind the scenes, do you know which faction is K: OK. So what are you getting from your sources? Are you
backing Obama, besides, you know, the obvious? writing this stuff down like you did? Because, you know, you
have your three books out there.
G: Well, no. The Rockefellers wanted Obama in a long time ago.
But when you talk about Colin Powell, you know that he’s G: Four.
moving into position to be one of his... And he submitted, as you
know, on the meeting of it, because he tends to be willing to K: And we can say: Handbook for a New Paradigm, Embracing
serve his president. So they’ll put him into some position. He’s the Rainbow, and Becoming.
great for working out the Middle East.
G: Yeah, but there’s another one, the Messages to the Ground
Again, the wild card in this whole thing is: What are we gonna be Crew. That was the last name. That one really said it in big
dealing with? Because we’re now a bankrupt country. Our spades. It said just get ready for the big, you know, unbridled
currency’s not going to be allowed any place. truth that’s coming on to the whole planet.
And you know what happened in Iraq today. Their government K: OK. Well, you know, we created a forum that’s all around the
just backed off of all of these requirements for pulling out. And I Ground Crew and we’ve got a huge... I guess we’ve got 4,000
think that the government’s saying: Get out of Iraq. And they’re people visiting it every day.
waiting for Obama to get in, and that’s part of the delay.
G: I’m going to get on there this week, I promise. I’ll get on
K: OK. there myself.
G: Even though they’ve got... You know, they have the biggest K: [laughs]
embassy. The United States has the biggest embassy in the world.
It’s over in Iraq right now. G: I have been so busy. And I’m glad you do. I’ve got, like,
12,000 on my own list just in the last year. [laughs]
K: Except my understanding is that the reasons they went into
Iraq to begin with is because they want to guard that Stargate K: Wow.
that’s there, during the time when what may be Planet X comes
around and/or some of the changes that are happening here G: And I’m working with some people right now that are trying
behind the scenes with ETs and so on. to manage my own website better because it’s just unbelievable
the number of actions we’re getting. I mean, you know, on the
G: Well, I can’t... For that area I’m not really too sure because I whole, like you’re getting, and so am I. [laughs] We’ll see what
was involved with the other people who were involved with... we can do.
You know, it all goes back to the days when the Iraq War “A” K: Well, let me ask you this, because we’re just about to release
[Desert Storm] started. You know, the Kuwaitis were slant- another interview with Bob Dean who has come forward. And he
drilling underneath the Iraqi territory and they brought it in. It’s actually spoke at the UFO Expo, and I think he broke the news
all over oil for right now. there. But he’s coming forward saying that, you know, Nibiru is a
real issue and that the government knows it.
The Iraqi thing has obviously got a lot of artifacts and stuff over
in Iraq that show the extraterrestrial connection. And is there a G: Oh sure. Well, we know that Nibiru is... Well, my partner,
Stargate there? Or are there other places around the planet? I Gillian, knows all of that information on that and she can go into
mean, we’re all interested... more detail than I can. And so, we’ll have to get her on the air
with you and you can discuss the whole thing.
We’re all going into an interesting time, Kerry, and I can’t really
give you an answer on what you’re saying on that. K: That would be lovely. That’d be wonderful. We definitely
would love to do that. OK. Is there any parting remarks? You
K: OK. But you do have, you know... I mean, you’re still getting know. And then we want to call you back for a sort of a personal
some “downloads”, are you not? From your Pleiadians? conversation, if you don’t mind. But before we do that, are there
any other remarks that you want to make about the current
G: My ETs? situation? Maybe words of advice to the Ground Crew?
242
G: Well, the words I have right now is just what I said before:
Get your food stored up. If you need some appliances, go out and K: Right.
buy ’em while you can buy ’em cheap right now, because my
friends were telling me that China’s saying pay ’em in any other G: So what do they do? Then they go out to find somebody else
currency besides the dollar in order to get the stuff. So I’m going to buy it. And if they can, the people are buying it for 10-cents on
to see a lot of goods and stuff kind of disappear off the shelves the dollar. Yeah, I’ve heard that already. And they’re doing that
very shortly. And you might as well get it while you can. It’d be like they do with some of the real estate stuff they’re doing right
for trading stock. now for 25- and 30-cents on the dollar. So yeah. [laughs] It’s a
big meltdown, Kerry. That’s all you can look at.
K: Right.
K: Yeah, it’s pretty worldwide. Well, I think that you’re also
G: Food. And get yourself someplace that you can go, away talking about countries like Africa and the smaller, you know,
from major cities. Because I am getting a lot of calls from people small islands, and places in the third world that are going to be hit
right now, that the military is doing some exercises in different the hardest, it seems to me.
places.
G: Well, look. These countries that you’re talking about and
K: Right. We did get some information about that. We’ve also other things that are hit the hardest because of the benefits that
got Bill Deagle talking about H5N1 -- it’s a virus. we’ve been putting out, in other words, trying to help the people.
G: The avian flu virus. Right. K: They have no tourism, you know. A lot of these places aren’t
going to exist.
K: Have you heard anything about that?
G: Look at what they’re doing right now in Vegas. Right now...
G: No, I didn’t go into any details. Remember, when I sat in on There’s a whole area right now -- you’ve got hotel rooms for 30
the meetings when they were looking to population reduction, bucks a night. I mean, about 70 of ’em along the Strip.
they said: By all means necessary. That’s viruses, too, because
they were cheaper. K: Incredible.
The new pulsed-beam weapons -- the ones they developed off of G: Because there’s nobody coming in there. You know,
alien craft -- they’re really looking at that, too. They can just gambling has always been good. My son-in-law was going to
basically send out a beam and shut down all electronic things, build a new casino, and they just cancelled that.
and everything else, and put you basically back in the Stone Age
instantly. K: Oh, did they?
K: Wow. OK. G: Yeah. This is all in the last week, so he’s going to be without
a job. And he just did a billion-dollar project and he was going to
G: That’s all available at this minute. But if they’re looking for do another billion-dollar one.
population reduction in order to try to keep ahold of what we’ve
had as the United States being the most powerful one, they want K: Very interesting. OK. Well, we’re going to be speaking at the
to try to keep the economy going. I want to see how they’re going Crash Retrieval Conference coming up in Vegas, as you know.
to try to unravel it with the rest of the world leaders. Because
they’re not buying it. G: On the 9th [of November]. Yeah, I know. We’ll be talking.
We’ll do that at another time.
K: Oh, I’m sure of it. What about... There’s one last thing, which
is, we’re hearing things about ships coming into port and not K: Absolutely. OK. Well, we’re going to get back with you with
having letters of credit, so they’re not able to deliver the goods. a private conversation here but thank you, George, for this
update. We’re going to put this on our site.
G: The letter of credit was for the goods that you’re talking
about? When they have the delivery, they come up and they can’t G: Thanks, Kerry.
get their cash. I’ve heard that also from a couple of other places.
In other words, the ships... You know, they were costing them K: And we really do appreciate you, you know, staying in touch
about almost $40,000 a day for fuel to run these things. But the with us and keeping us up to date on what’s going on.
prices are down.
G: Well, I hope to see you both.
But the goods they were delivering... They were given a letter of
credit that as soon as the boat, you know, came up, or unloaded K: Absolutely. All right. Take care. Bye.
whatever the boat was loaded with, the letter of credit then would
be funded. But the banks are broke. G: Bye.
243
Project Camelot:
Jim Humble Interview Transcript
The Story Behind MMS: Miracle Mineral Supplement
Sasbachwalden, Germany, November 2008
... He was going through the files one time and he come upon this
photograph, 8 x 10 photograph, that showed a space station on
the back side of the Moon.
... I figured: They didn’t get all that gold out there. I can just go
out and get a bunch of it myself. You know. And so I started in
mining and I found out that pretty much that they did get all that
gold out there after all.
... I developed new techniques for gold recovery.
... When you have a billion dollars invested in a particular

process, it isn’t likely you’re just going to change, you know. It’s
not something that they usually do.
... And these guys were really sick, and so I asked them if they
would like to try to my water purification drops that I had
Aerospace engineer Jim Humble's third career started brought along with me. And in four hours they were up, laughing
accidentally while on a gold prospecting trip in the jungle of about how bad they were feeling just a little while before.
Venezuela. There, using stabilized oxygen, he improvised an
effective remedy for his colleagues who were stricken with
malaria. As curious as he had always been in his life, he returned ... Normally speaking, a person who’s given MMS will be well
to his native US and wondered why the cure had worked so well. from malaria in four hours. I’ve treated 2,000 people personally,
and the people I’ve trained have treated over 100,000 people.
The answers to his own questions led him to the development of
a more powerful form of oxygen therapy, chlorine dioxide, which Bill Ryan: Are you allowed to say here on camera that MMS will
he called Miracle Mineral Supplement. With a mission to help cure cancer?
the human race whatever he did, Jim made it widely available in
the form of sodium chlorite which the user 'activated' by adding Jim Humble: Sure. [laughs] I can say it. MMS will cure cancer.
lemon juice or vinegar - and medical teams conducted 100,000
research trials in Africa where it was found that MMS would
frequently relieve the symptoms of malaria in as little as four
hours.
Start of interview
In this 75 minute interview, Jim talks with Project Camelot's Bill
Ryan about his life and work. Charming, engaging and Bill Ryan: So, this is Bill Ryan from Project Camelot and this is
passionate, Jim reveals his most interesting background in Friday, the 21st of November [2008] and I am delighted to meet
aerospace and mining engineering - careers few users of MMS Jim Humble. Jim!
will be aware of - and then goes into detail about how MMS
works, his experience successfully treating not only malaria but Jim Humble: It’s my pleasure.
hepatitis, cancer and AIDS, and his personal spiritual and
philosophical perspective on everything he does.
BR: It’s wonderful to meet a man who’s got good taste in
headgear. [laughter] And we’re here in southern Germany at
Jim Humble: ...I did things like set up A-bomb tests. I worked on Sasbachwalden, at a conference where Jim is speaking in a few
Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. I was able to wire the first hours’ time. And you’ve flown in from Mexico, I believe?
computer-controlled machine in the United States at Hughes
Aircraft Company.
JH: Hermosillo, Mexico.
... So they called me in and had me repair the Lunar Vehicle.
[laughs] And so, did they go to the Moon or didn’t they? [laughs] BR: A few days ago.
I don’t know whether they took it to the Moon or they took it out
to the mountains in the desert. JH: Yes.
244
BR: Now, Jim, it’s very clear that you’ve had an extraordinary a lot cheaper job than the chemical operations that they have
life. What’s your background? What was it that brought you to now.
the point when you were in Guyana? You were prospecting? Was
it for gold? But those people who are using the chemical operations, they
don’t particularly care to talk about it. So it’s not something that
JH: Prospecting for gold. Yeah. is easy to sell. It’s just like a lot of things. They don’t want to
change, you know. People are doing something and they don’t
BR: So, take us through the fast-forward of your life, and your want to change the way they’re doing it.
training, and how come you got to that point in Guyana.
BR: So your second career actually has got a lot of interesting
JH: Well, I started, sort of, in the aerospace industries and... I parallels with your third career, that the vested interests want to
started as a technician in the aerospace industry. And I just, as keep on using the more toxic and ineffective approach.
things worked out, I became a non-degreed engineer, as a
research engineer in aerospace. And I did things like set up A- JH: That’s correct. There is a lot of parallels there and there’s...
bomb tests and I... It would be a real good thing for the mining industry to use the
process. It’s much cheaper, easier to set up. But when you have a
BR: A-bomb? billion dollars invested in a particular process, it isn’t likely
you’re just gonna change, you know. It’s not something that they
usually do. And so I don’t worry about it too much.
JH: A-bomb.
BR: In your first career, which you had back in aerospace, didn’t
BR: Atomic bomb tests? you have something to do with the Lunar Module? Or the Lunar
Lander, was it?
JH: Atomic bomb tests. And I worked on Intercontinental
Ballistic Missiles and I worked on power generation from JH: I was working at the General Motors Defense Research
plasma. Yeah, I just happened that I was in the right place at the Laboratories in Santa Barbara at the time. And they had taken the
right time. And back in those days... and I was able to wire the Lunar Vehicle up there to get it ready to be loaded on the ship
first computer-controlled machine in the United States at Hughes going to the Moon, of course. And there was some parts inside of
Aircraft Company. it that was broken. And I don’t know, minor, tiny accident, but
there was a few wires that were broken and everything. And I
You know, for a number of years there, I sort of lucked out and happened to be an electronic technician, and they knew I was, so
worked on the edge of science on a number of different projects. they called me in and had me repair the Lunar Vehicle. [laughter]
And I had a lot of fun [laughs] working on it, on the various
different projects. And so... And so, I just got to work on it. And it was kind of interesting,
what they were doing. And did they go to the Moon or didn’t
But, you know, the Cold War come to an end, and the aerospace they? I don’t know [laughs] whether they took it to the Moon or
industry sort of come to an end, and so I went into mining. And I they took it out to the mountains in the desert. But I assume that
got interested in mining -- gold mining, of course, because I was they took it to the Moon.
thinking that I could make a lot of money in gold mining. I was
like a lot of guys. I figured: They didn’t get all that gold out BR: We actually heard from one of our whistleblowers that both
there. I can just go out and get a bunch of it myself. You know. of the stories were correct, that some of the missions went to the
Moon, some did not. Some of the photographs were real and
And so I started off in mining and I found out that pretty much some were not. It’s a real mixed bag.
that they did get all that gold out there after all. And so, it...
JH: Yeah. Right. I remember that flag, you know, waving.
But in the process of being in mining, I started working with the [laughter] So you’re never... of course, there wasn’t any air on
various different mining techniques. And I wrote five books on the Moon, so the flag really shouldn’t have been waving.
mining recovery, mainly on the recovery of gold, different ways
of leaching. BR: There were all kind of things, cross-hairs behind the image,
anomalies. Didn’t you say that you were working in the room
And I wrote ways of not using mercury. A lot of mining was with a colleague who saw something interesting at one point?
using mercury up to that time, and I wrote a book on how to use
mercury safely. And then I wrote a book on how you didn’t need JH: Well, yes, I did. I had friend who was working at JPL, Jet
mercury after all. [laughs] And so I just sort of got into... Propulsion Laboratory, which was doing all of the Moon work at
that time. And he was a draftsman and he had, well, he had the
And I developed new techniques for gold recovery. And I could right to go into the various different secret files to get material
go into the jungle and recover gold that they had missed before out for his drafting, whatever it was that he was doing.
because I could recover the very, very fine particles of gold with
my particular technique. It uses nothing but water and it makes BR: He had the level of clearance.
no harsh impact on the environment because there’s no
chemicals. And it will... not only that, but it does a better job and
245
JH: He had the level of clearance, yeah. And so he was going And the next day a couple more of ’em came down, and the same
through the files one time and he come upon this photograph, 8 x thing happened. They were treated for malaria in the same way,
10 photograph, that showed a space station on the back side of of course, and they were well.
the Moon. And it was far enough from the Moon that you could
see the station and yet you could see that it was the Moon. And after that I traveled through the jungle, and I treated a lot of
people in the jungle in South America, which was the country of
And it was pretty obvious to him that it was not the type of Guyana. And I became pretty well known in that part of the
construction that the United States would do. In other words, it jungle because I treated a lot of people.
wasn’t the type of construction that JPL would do, because he’s
familiar with all that. He was designing things along those lines, It didn’t always work at that time. I had not done any work with
so he was familiar with what JPL did and didn’t do. And the it, and so, sometimes it didn’t work and so... But I still became
construction that he saw on the Moon was totally foreign to well known. And finally I went into the city and started treating
Earth. people in the city. And that wasn’t the thing to do. The
government stopped me at that time.
BR: So he said to you: Hey Jim. Look what I’ve just seen. Look
what I’ve... BR: The government in Guyana.
JH: That’s right. He didn’t show it to me. He didn’t bring it out. JH: The government in Guyana stopped me because several
He just told me. He told me about it, explained it at the time. American drug companies called down there and said, told them,
that if they didn’t stop “the guy that was curing malaria” that they
BR: That’s a pretty interesting story. Someone should make a were going to stop shipping drugs to the local hospital.
movie of your life. [laughter] That would be quite a story.
You’ve had several careers in there, haven’t you? And the reason why I know that is because I had... a friend that I
had made when I first got there was the guy that was directly
JH: Well, I don’t know how interesting it would be, but it would under the president of the country. And he said, he told me, that’s
be very interesting to me. [laughs] what happened, and they had no choice but they had to make me
stop because they couldn’t afford to have their hospital not have
BR: What would be wonderful here... I know there’s an drugs. And so that was the situation.
enormous story you told, which you have told before. But for the
benefit of people who aren’t familiar with your work, can you BR: Mm hm.
give a brief summary, if it’s possible, of your discovery -- if
discovery is the right word -- of the Miracle Mineral Supplement JH: Anyhow, I went back to the United States and I started
known all over the world as MMS, what it does, and how it was working on it, trying to figure out what was in it that caused the
that you came to develop this? malaria to be cured. And I finally realized... What I was using
was a solution that is being sold in all the health food stores and
JH: Well, I was a gold prospector in South America, and a had been on the shelves of health food stores for like 75 years in
couple of my men came down with malaria. And so... we were the United States. And it’s called stabilized oxygen.
quite a ways out in the jungle and there was no way to get any
malaria drugs, and we had not previously believed that there And so, that’s what I was using -- stabilized oxygen. And I
would be any malaria in that area. So we had no malaria drugs. started working with it. And I sent it over to friends that I made
in Africa, and they were trying it out on people who had malaria
And I sent a couple of runners off to a local mining operation. over there and telling me by email how it was working. And so
But it was going to take them a day to get there and a day to get they cured a lot of people.
back, and that’s a long time without a malaria drug when you’re
pretty darn sick. And these guys were really sick. And in the process, I was working out ways of making it work
better and better. So we finally got to the point where it was
And so I asked them if they would like to try my water curing everybody that they treated. There wasn’t any failures.
purification drops that I had brought along with me. And they And so, at that point, I didn’t figure that it needed to get any
said they were willing to try anything. better. And so, I have been working with it the same way.
They were very sick. They had all the symptoms. They were Now, stabilized oxygen has been used, and people have been
laying in bed and they were... they had a high fever, and they talking about oxygen, and how wonderful it was to have the
were shivering, and they had pains in their joints. And they had oxygen and stabilized oxygen. It’s been in books and on the
nausea. They were throwing up. They had extreme headache. internet, and so forth.
They were just in bad shape.
But the fact is, there is no useful oxygen in stabilized oxygen. It’s
And so I give ’em a... I give each one of ’em a glass with quite a chlorine dioxide is what is available in stabilized oxygen, and
few drops of the purification liquid. And in four hours they were there is no oxygen that’s available. So, they have been confused
up, laughing about how bad they were feeling just a little while all that time. And that might be one of the reasons why it never
before. And they ate dinner that night, normally, and they went to got really developed into a... to the point that it would really cure
work the next morning. everything that it treated.
246
However, that was the basics of the development of Miracle So it leaves nothing behind to cause any kind of side effects, or
Mineral Supplement of the 21st century. nothing to build up, to cause side effects.
BR: And it was... Basically what you did then, was you figured BR: OK. Now, for people who’ve heard about MMS but who
out a more powerful delivery mechanism of the chlorine dioxide aren’t scientifically minded, what can you say about what you’re
that the stabilized oxygen was delivering in the first place. reasonably sure it can do? When you say it kills pathogens, you
mean it kills harmful viruses and bacteria?
JH: Yeah. It was a simple thing, although it took me about a year
to figure it out. But any good chemist would have probably JH: That’s right.
figured it out in the first day. But my chemistry was limited to
metallurgy, and so, a lot of chemistry I really didn’t understand. BR: How does it single those out?
So it took me a while to realize what to do to it.
JH: The pathogens... In the body, those things that cause diseases
But the simplicity of it was, you simply add some vinegar or – pathogens - are anaerobic.
some lemon juice, and the acid in the vinegar or the lemon juice
releases the chlorine dioxide. And that is what does the work –
chlorine dioxide. Now, most everybody understands that there’s aerobic and
anaerobic bacteria in the body. And the anaerobic bacteria,
anaerobic microorganisms, are the ones that do the damage -- the
Now, chlorine dioxide is not the same as chlorine. And anaerobic.
everybody gets really, really afraid of chlorine dioxide when they
hear what it is. But it isn’t the same as chlorine at all. It doesn’t
create the chemicals that chlorine creates in the body or in water The aerobic are oxygen-using bacteria, and they are much more
purification systems. powerful. They’re much stronger than the disease-causing
anaerobic microorganisms. So the anaerobic microorganisms are
the guys that cause all the trouble, and they’re the weak
Chlorine will create, in most any water purification system, organisms. They’re not strong.
several carcinogenic, you know, cancer-causing chemicals. But
chlorine dioxide does not.
Just to give you an example of an idea, most people have been
out in the woods, and they’ve seen the fungus growing on the
And it’s... chlorine dioxide is as different chlorine as table salt is trees. Well, that’s anaerobic. And you can walk up to the tree and
different from chlorine. Table salt is sodium chloride, and so, it’s knock the fungus off because it’s very weak. It don’t have the
made from chlorine. So it’s quite different from chlorine, and it’s power that the trees, which are using the oxygen, have -- they’re
very, very effective in the body. strong and healthy. But the fungus is very, very weak.
BR: Now, I know a little bit about oxygen therapies, and And it’s the same way in your body. The pathogens that don’t use
hydrogen peroxide in particular. Does it work in a similar way to oxygen are very weak. And so, when you put the chloride dioxide
hydrogen peroxide therapy? in the body, it’s a weak oxidizer, so it can single out the
pathogens. Because it’s a weak oxidizer, it only has enough
JH: Well, it does work in a similar way, but it works in a... It is a power to oxidize the pathogens.
less powerful oxidizer than hydrogen peroxide.
Now, one thing about it is, although it’s a much weaker oxidizer
Hydrogen peroxide will oxidize many things that chlorine than the other oxidizers like ozone and hydrogen peroxide,
dioxide will not oxidize, which sort of makes chlorine dioxide an although it’s much weaker, it has a much greater capacity. It can
ideal oxidizer for the body. It doesn’t have the power to oxidize oxidize a lot more. It’ll oxidize twice as much as ozone, or 2-1/2
the healthy cells of the body, or the beneficial bacteria in the times as much as ozone, but it can’t oxidize as many different
body, or a lot of the tissues of the body. things as ozone. It can only oxidize a few things, but those few
things that it does oxidize, it oxidizes with a great deal of power.
So, while hydrogen peroxide can oxidize a lot of things, chlorine
dioxide oxidizes a very limited number of things. And so, the It’s sort of like... Chlorine dioxide is an explosive, not only in
limit it’s limited to is so ideal. It will only oxidize pathogens. large quantities, where it will blow your building apart, but it’s
That’s the things that cause disease in your body. It only oxidizes explosive in small quantities. To those things it can oxidize, it’s
the pathogens. And it won’t oxidize any of the beneficial things explosive, and it will do that.
in the body.
And so, while I’m mentioning that, I will just mention to you that
So you don’t really have to worry about it. There’s no side effects the way it kills a pathogen is, it blows a hole in the skin. Now, the
from it. There’s nothing to build up with it. It turns into... after normal antibiotic that you take, that antibiotic has to be built just
it’s in the body for about 2, 3, 4 hours, it turns into a chloride. for the particular pathogen it’s going to kill, because it has to go
Guess what. That’s table salt. inside, and it has to make the nucleus quit working properly.
And it turns into such a small amount of chloride that it is not BR: Mm hm.
anything that you can worry about. It’s maybe two or three grains
of table salt from a dose of chlorine dioxide, and that’s all it is.
247
JH: But chlorine dioxide blows a hole in the side. And, because JH: Well, usually a lot of other people come in. But,
it blows a hole in the side, there is no possibility of any pathogen unfortunately, things happen that sort of slow things down. One
ever developing a resistance to chlorine dioxide. thing happened -- there’s a couple of missionaries decided I was
evil. And so they told all the missionaries in the area that I was
Now, chlorine dioxide kills viruses in a slightly different way. evil, and so that sort of slowed things down. They actually quit
Instead of that method, and instead of going in and trying to kill using the MMS. And so, many people who wanted to be treated
the nucleus of the virus, it prevents the formation of special virus didn’t get treated.
proteins. And, of course, if the proteins can’t form, in a very short
period it results in the death or the destruction of the virus. BR: Because you were a threat to the power structure.
So, it kills both bacteria and viruses. It also kills fungus, and JH: Maybe that was it. I don’t know. They just decided.
several of the other types of pathogens that are in the body as Actually, what happened is, one of the nurses came to me. She
well. had a lot of pain in her hand. And I just put my hand on her hand,
and I said: Can you feel my fingers. You know? And she said:
BR: It will kill parasites as well? Yeah.
JH: And it kills parasites. It kills all kinds of parasites and it kills And I said: Feel my fingers. And I said it about 3 times.
them fast. Because, for example, malaria is caused by a parasite.
And, normally speaking, a person who’s given MMS will be well And she said: Oh, the pain’s going away. I can feel it tingling.
from malaria in four hours. I mean, the worst disease of mankind You know.
is well from malaria in four hours.
And this missionary come running over and said: Stop that! Stop
And it isn’t like we “think” it works. I’ve treated 2,000 people it. Stop it. And she... I don’t know. She decided that I was evil.
personally. And the people I’ve trained have treated over 100,000
people. And in that 100,000, normally you’d find 400 people that BR: That implies that you’ve actually got healing hands to some
died. Normally in 100,000 people who get malaria, 400 people degree, do you think?
would be dead. And there were no deaths reported in that
100,000 at all.
JH: Well, no, but I developed a technique for healing by touch. I
call it Touch Healing. And the basic theory of Touch Healing is
So it really works well with malaria, and that’s parasites. And that your brain controls all the healing in your body. And so, if
there are a lot of other parasites that we’ve treated as well. you can increase the communication between the brain and the
area that’s bad, it will heal faster. And it can heal in minutes
BR: Even large parasites? sometimes... not always, but it often can.
JH: Even large parasites. Even worms. And... somewhat, a little bit like Reiki, but not really. And the
idea is that, as you develop pain in your wrist, the brain don’t like
BR: Really. the pain, so it starts turning off the communication. And the
worse the pain gets, the least communication. And so now, if you
can get that communication going better, the pain will heal faster.
JH: When we were treating the people in the villages in Africa, It works pretty good. [laughs]
ever so often we’d get one kid or a guy and he would cough up a
lot of worms, as... you know, as big around as an orange almost.
So, it will kill the big ones as well. BR: And what response have you had from the orthodox medical
establishment? Because the statistics sound pretty impressive.
BR: So the trials that you’ve done against malaria, where you
said you trained somebody or a team who cured 100,000 people, JH: Well, it depends on where you’re at. In the United States, the
this was in Africa? medical establishment there is pretty much against MMS.
JH: In Africa. Yes. I had a millionaire who was willing to put up enough money to
treat the entire country of Haiti, and so I went there with the idea
of doing that. And I tried to communicate with the people there,
BR: Whereabouts in Africa? and I talked to all of the missionaries there. And every one of ’em
was connected with a doctor in the United States. And in every
JH: Well, it was both in Kenya and Uganda... some missionary, case, they called the doctor in the United States, and he says:
large missionary, operation in Kenya and Uganda. And then there Don’t have anything to do with it.
was guys who I give the material to, MMS to, and they went to
Sierra Leone. And then, quite a few people in Tanzania treated. So, quite a few of ’em were enthused about doing it, but when
And then, of course, I’ve treated a number of them in Malawi. their doctor told them not to they didn’t have any... So, the
All of these countries are in Africa, if you don’t recognize them. medical establishment in the United States, for the last couple of
years, has not been very receptive to it.
BR: And what happens in those countries when word starts to
spread that a scourge like malaria is getting handled so easily?
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But, on the other hand, I’m in Mexico now. And there the doctors I‘m going to give you some stuff to take. And he just handed it to
have been helping me. A non-profit civil association was formed him and said: Drink it. [laughs]
and a number of doctors have put their names to it. And we’ve
started doing clinical trials for AIDS and hepatitis C and cancer. And then he did a whole protocol that we have, which is putting
And those trials have been going pretty good. the MMS on the outside of the skin, and several other things. And
by the next morning, he got up out of bed and walked around a
And we have a guy who’s head of the prison system there. He’s bit.
also helping us. So, we’ve had... And the local hospital has
agreed to give us 300 blood tests for free. And so, we’ve been out And by the third day he quit taking the pain tablets. And that’s
to treat the local Indians in the various tribes near there. generally the first thing that really is a good sign, and most
always, almost always, happens with cancer patients, is within 2
And it’s gone much better in Mexico than it’s gone in the United or 3 days they quit taking the pain tablets. And so he quit taking
States, although there’s a lot of bottles of MMS being sold in the the pain tablets. And by the end of the week he was talking about
United States. There’s at least 15,000 bottles a month being sold going back to work.
in the United States right now.
Now, when I left Mexico, he wasn’t totally cured, but that guy
BR: Are you allowed to say here on camera that MMS will cure was up, living his life again at least.
cancer?
BR: And it works because chlorine dioxide heads straight for
JH: Sure. [laughs] I can say it. MMS will cure cancer. anything that’s anaerobic and basically just explodes it.
BR: OK. That’s a wonderful thing for a lot of people to hear. JH: That’s right.
What statistics have you got on that, realistically, for people who
might literally feel they’ve got their lives at stake here? Is there a BR: And cancer cells are anaerobic.
good chance?
JH: Yes. But there’s a little bit more to it than that with cancer.
JH: There’s a good chance, in my opinion. You know, I’ve You see, we put it on the skin. And we use DMSO. That’s a
treated a few hundred people in Mexico. Some of ’em were particular material that soaks into the skin. Now, it’s used by
cancer patients. I’ve treated over the telephone, when people call people to treat horses all over the world, and it’s used for treating
me and I set up treatments for ’em over the telephone, at least a lot of animals. And a lot of people have used it, too.
2000 people over the telephone. And I’ve probably treated by
email another 4000 people. And I have a lot of stories of people
who have been cured of cancer. BR: What’s that name again?
I can give you... There was a gal down in Australia who had lung JH: DMSO. And if you mix it with the MMS, and you put it on
cancer, and the doctor had given her, said: You’re going to die in the skin, it soaks into the skin and it takes the MMS into the skin,
about 2 weeks. And she, of course, was in bed, and she wasn’t too. And so, when it takes the MMS into the skin, it heads
able to get out of bed except they would get her out to go to the directly for the cancer. And it soaks into the cancer, too.
bathroom and things like that.
Instead of attacking the cancer cells, the weak cancerous cells,
And so, her doctor heard of MMS and brought it to her. He said: because it’s DMSO, it soaks into the cell, and it kills the little bug
You’d just as well take this as not. You’re going to be dead soon that’s inside the cell that’s causing the cancer and that’s causing
anyway. You know. the cell to be weak and cancerous.
And she said: Of course, she was willing to take it, what the hell? When you kill that little bug, the cell becomes healthy again. And
And in 11 days she was up walking around. And in 15 days, she so, you no longer have to kill the cell. And so the whole theory
got in her car and drove it down to the lake and walked around a behind using MMS to kill cancer is, we use it three or four
small lake. And before the month was out, she was back teaching different ways, all on the same guy, because we want to have as
school. She wasn’t completely cured at that time, but since that much MMS in that person’s body as possible.
time, of course, she’s been completed cured.
We want to make the body -- environment of the body -- totally
Just the other day, not more than a month ago, my friend who reject the cancer. And so, the more we can get into the body, the
works with me there in Mexico, his uncle got cancer. And he got more likely that it will kill the cancer.
worse and worse, and he was finally in bed. And it was a
pancreatic cancer. And so, he said: I want to go treat my uncle. But we’re limited, because we can’t make the person sick. We
And I said: Sure, go treat your uncle. gotta stay giving him just enough that he don’t get sick, but is on
the edge of getting sick. [laughs] So we’ve got to keep him just
And so, he got on the plane and he flew to another Mexican city on that very edge. And therefore, it’s pretty intense for cancer.
where his uncle was. And his uncle was lying in bed, totally It’s pretty intense. He needs to take it 4 or 5 times a day, small
depressed, would hardly even talk to him. And so he says: Here, amounts 4 or 5 times a day, instead of a big batch at one time.
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BR: What does “small amounts” mean? JH: Exactly. Exactly. I think the more a person takes
responsibility for his own health, the more likely he is to be
JH: Well, “small amounts” means 3, 4, 5, 6 drops of MMS. And, happy and stay alive.
of course, you’ve got to activate the MMS, too, but it’s small
amounts. BR: And, in terms of a list of the diseases which MMS has been
shown to be efficacious against, you’re talking malaria, AIDS,
And then, of course, the MMS that’s put on the outside of the cancer. What else?
body affects the body in a different way. And it doesn’t cause a
Herxheimer reaction -- a Herxheimer reaction being the reaction JH: Flu. Colds. All types of diseases of the mouth. Most people
that’s caused by cells dying -- because it goes in and it kills the find that they... Even people who think they have healthy mouths,
bug that’s inside the cancer instead of killing the cancer... inside if they will brush with MMS once or twice a day, they’ll find that
the cancerous cells, I should say. So it kills the... their gums’ll get harder, their teeth will get more solidly in place,
the teeth will get whiter.
So, we’ve been having a lot of luck with cancer and almost every
other disease you can imagine. The MMS kills any bacteria that’s on the teeth and helps enamel
remain solid, and helps the enamel build back to a certain extent.
BR: Now it sounds like... I mean, like now watching this video, Because if you kill all those bacteria in there, the enamel can
there will be people who are paying very close attention to what improve, to a certain extent. And all kinds of people who’ve had
you’re saying because they may be thinking, you know: This is terrible, terrible diseases of the mouth -- and including abscessed
my last hope. Do they buy a bottle and start taking it? Do they teeth. Including abscessed teeth.
need to consult a practitioner, someone with experience? Are
there special protocols for different kinds of cancer? Now, for a long time I was pretty much convinced that if the
tooth abscessed from the inside, you couldn’t get MMS into it,
JH: Well, some people... You know, some people have the and therefore you couldn’t cure it if it was abscessed from the
ability to self-medicate. And boy, I mean, the medical doctors inside. But the fact of the matter is... One of my guys said: Hey,
really hate that. Self-medication, you know, it’s going to keep I’m gonna try that DMSO and see if it’ll soak in. And so he put it
them from getting a few bucks. [laughs] And so they scream in, and brushed his mouth with a real light, soft toothbrush for a
about self-medication all the time. while, just dipping it in the DMSO and the MMS combination,
and just brushing it. And in about two days, the abscess in his
tooth went away.
But self-medication’s a good thing. People are taking
responsibility for themselves, and so I recommend that. Either
way. If you can find somebody who has experience, that’s good, Now, that’s a total impossibility, but it works. [laughs] And so, it
but get going. does really great things with all... I mean, I’ve had lots and lots of
people call me and tell me that their mouth was in terrible shape,
and tell me how it had improved to normal, or even better than
And so, I have all of the data on my different websites. And those what you consider normal. So, it really works well with fixing the
websites have protocols on them. And the protocols tell you how mouth up.
to do it, tell you how to do the cancer, tell you how to do others
things as well.
BR: Now there are two modern-day plagues that could spread, so
we are told. One is tuberculosis, and the other one is avian flu, if
And the latest one is, I say, a “Protocol for People who have Life- it comes to that. Would you have reason to suspect that MMS
threatening Diseases.” And that is the latest protocol, and the could work against both of these?
protocol that we’ve been getting the best results for, for life-
threatening diseases like cancer. There are a lot of other things
that you don’t need to go that intense with. You can take it much JH: Well, I sure would. The avian flu... Of course, you know,
easier. there’s been an entire multi-billions of people on this Earth.
There’s only been 300 cases of avian flu, and those guys that got
that was in places that was highly susceptible to it.
But normally I have all of those different protocols on, and a lot
of other data, too. And, for people who really want to study up on
it, I have what’s called a MMS Answers site, and there’s more The chances of it ever happening is very, very slim, although the
than 800 questions and answers that I have given people over the president, Bush, thinks, and has been talking about how he
last year. expects it to happen, you know. And there’s a lot of people
talking about, in the drug cartels, are talking about how it’s going
to be, it’s just gonna happen sooner or later, it’s gotta happen but
And those questions are cross-referenced in a number of different they just don’t know how soon it’s gonna happen, but they know
ways, so you can look up almost anything. If you want to look up it’s gonna happen.
pancreas, you can look up pancreas. If you want to look up
colon, you can look up colon, or a number of other things in that
manner. BR: Some people think it’s been weaponized.
BR: So what you want is to give people the power to take their JH: That’s right. There are some people that think it’s been
own health welfare back into their own hands, away from the weaponized. But I think that the flu that’s been the most
professionals. dangerous was the 1917 flu. It killed 50 million people. And
they’ve gotten that one back, too. [laughs] So they reconstructed
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it from people who were buried up in Alaska, who had the flu. And I had one of my friends check with the FDA the other day.
And they were buried in ice, and they’ve been in ice all these He went in and he went to the third man in control in the FDA
years. and asked him about MMS. What did they think about it?
But I think... MMS kills any flu that I’ve seen so far, and it’s just And the guy said: Well, that’s just crap. He said: We don’t worry
a pathogen, and so it should be able to kill that flu as well. So, the about things like that. He said: We have these multimillion-dollar
best way is to keep a bottle of MMS on your shelf. [laughs] corporations that are furnishing herbs that are replacing some of
the drugs. And we have a lot of... we don’t have enough money to
BR: Yes. Is there anything you can say about your own vision control them. He says: Why are we gonna worry about some little
for the next few years? Because this has been a staggering story. guy down there in the street selling MMS?
This started in Guyana, how many years ago?
So, they aren’t aware of what MMS’ll do. They’re not aware of
JH: In 1997 in Guyana. So what’s that? 10 years now. what’s happening. And I want to leave it that way. I don’t want
the governments and the various different drug companies
finding out about it.
BR: So in a decade it’s now a world-wide phenomenon.
I’ve had chances to go on national newspapers, and one or two
JH: Yes. chances to go on national TV, and I’ve always rejected it --
although I’m happy to go on the internet, and I’ve had a lot of
BR: You see it on every discussion board, on every internet different internet attention.
forum, and people are talking about it. People are writing to us
about it. The alternative health community is abuzz with this. But I don’t want... I didn’t want to get it spread out so much that
What’s next? Where is this gonna go? What are your personal the government’s gonna get their hand in it. Because you know
plans? what they do; they stop whatever they can. So I’ve been avoiding
that. Eventually it’s gonna come, though. Eventually we’re gonna
JH: Well, I’d like to start in Africa, and take one single country, have to let... the news is gonna get out. But I’m gonna wait as
and just cure all the malaria in that one country. And we’ll get a long as I can on that.
lot of the AIDS while we’re at it. Of course, AIDS is a much
more complex disease and much harder to handle than malaria. BR: And you’ve heard one or two stories of people who come up
But I think that we have some protocols, ways of using MMS, against The-Powers-That-Be and suffer a little bit for that,
that will probably work on AIDS. So far we’ve had good luck. haven’t you?
BR: What country do you have in mind? JH: I’ve heard of a lot of stories. One of my... A guy that I know
pretty well was trying to sell, was selling, a salve that affected
JH: Well, I have the country of Malawi in mind. It may not be cancer. It actually is called the Indian Herb, and it’s been sold for
that country, but that country would be a good one because I’ve 70 years, and the lady who sells it has like 3,000 letters from
already talked to all of the... I did talk to all of the people in the people who’ve had cancer cured.
government there. They were all very helpful. They all were
happy to see me. They were happy for me to be treating their And he was selling this on the internet. And as soon as the FDA
people. heard about it, they come out, and they confiscated his house, and
his car, and his whole business, and his bank account. They got
There was no governmental problems at all. Even, they had a everything.
malaria department in the government, and that department was
happy to work with me. So I’d like to go somewhere like... I’d And they put him in jail. And then they kept him from talking to
like to go there just because it would be easy to get things going his lawyer by moving him from jail to jail, so that he couldn’t get
without a lot of getting permission and problems. That would be to talk to his lawyer. And then, after 6 months they finally
the main thing. charged him. They moved him around for 6 months, then after 6
months they finally charged him and they...
BR: Is there any possibility that you could get scientific studies
written up in the scientific journals? And when he said: Not guilty, the judge said: Wait a minute. Let’s
go to my chambers. And so the judge took him into his chambers
JH: Yes, there’s a possibility, but I’ve discouraged that. I’ve had and he said: You’ve got a choice. He said: Either you plead guilty
chances. People have asked me if I wanted to do that. and go to jail for three years, or I’ll make sure you go to jail for
20 years.
And I have discouraged it because we have been a grassroots
movement from the very beginning. We’ve been very successful And his lawyer wasn’t there, and he didn’t know what to do, so
in being a grassroots movement. And when I say “grassroots,” I he went ahead and pleaded guilty, went to jail for three years.
mean below the government’s radar. They haven’t been aware of And he got out of jail a couple years ago and now he’s down in
us. South America. He don’t want anything more to do with the U.S.
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But... I had another friend that I know. He’s become a friend starting to replace some of the drugs, then that’s what’s going to
because he knows what I’m doing. But he was in Africa curing really make ’em mad.
malaria and some people, representatives from the drug
companies, told him to stop. And he said he wasn’t gonna stop. BR: So your goal is to get as much out there as fast as possible
He was gonna continue to cure malaria. before they...
And one night when he went home... Well, he didn’t go home, he JH: That’s right. Get as much out. Get as many people using it as
went to his hotel room, and he opened the door and a bomb went possible, so that... And, you know, my book tells how to make it.
off and it blew both of his legs off. Didn’t kill him. He’s in And it even tells how to manufacture it in your kitchen, so that
California now. He’s in a wheelchair. you can buy the book and set up to manufacture it and furnish it
to your neighbors or furnish it to your family, or whatever.
That’s just two of the people I know personally. Then a lot of the
older guys, like a guy named Koch back in 1917, cured cancer. BR: OK. And what you’re saying is... In your book you’ve
And his material was sold to many hundreds of doctors, and more actually got instructions about how to be completely self-
than 100,000 people were cured of cancer before the FDA finally sufficient as far as MMS, if you want to do that.
stopped him.
JH: That’s right. A step-by-step procedure to make a few bottles
So. I can go on. There’s a lot of other stories about the same for yourself, and a step-by-step procedure to make hundreds or
thing. There’s Rife. Later on, in 1930s, Rife cured another... His thousands of bottles to be sold.
equipment and things cured another 100,000 people from cancer.
And the FDA stopped him, burned all of his books and all of his
laboratory equipment and everything. BR: And for anyone who’s thinking of buying some, it goes a
very long way. We’re just talking about a few little drops at a
time. Right?
And the FDA has burned many books, has had the burning of
books many times. The DMSO book was ordered to be burned.
And it was burned. They burned all the DMSO books that they JH: That’s right. A $20 bottle will last you, personally... Say, if
could get their hands on. you want to take a maintenance dose every day, a $20 bottle will
last you about a year and a half. And if you’re gonna use it for
your whole family, it’ll probably last for 3, 4, 5 months.
And so, you gotta stay out of the hands of the drug companies.
And of course, the drug companies run the FDA.
And the idea... and everybody has been really good at it... I ask
everybody... I don’t sell it myself, except I’m starting to in
In case you don’t know how that goes, the executives from the Mexico, but for the last 10 years I haven’t sold it myself. I give
drug companies take a sabbatical. They take a leave from their bottles away, but mostly I encourage other people to sell it. And
drug company, and they go over and be the guy that runs the everybody kept the price down.
FDA for a year. And then another drug company. And so, the
drug... the FDA in the United States is run by the drug
companies. And [laughs] it’s ridiculous. I said: Look, we want to keep the price down so anybody in the
world can afford it. And they all, so far, are humanitarian-type
people, and they’re all manufacturing and selling it for the same
And they have stopped every case, everything that cures cancer. price, which is $20 a bottle. I don’t care whether it’s in Germany,
And they convince the people, which it seems to be easy to or South Africa, or Australia, or the United States, or Mexico. It’s
convince, they convince the people that these people who $20 a bottle.
actually have cancer cures are charlatans and bad guys, and they
convince...
And that’s less than a penny a dose. You can cure a case of
malaria for 5 cents. And even the people in Africa can afford that.
And so, you know, I’ve had three or four friends who died of Now, when we go there, we ain’t gonna charge ’em that much.
cancer and they said: Well, I’m not gonna go to those quacks. We’re gonna do it for free at first, but they could afford it if they
And actually the medical people are the real quacks. They’re the had to.
ones that’s killing everybody. And so it’s... That’s the way it
exists right now. It’s kind of a shame
BR: What’s your spiritual and philosophical backdrop that’s
taken you through all these extraordinary years?
BR: Have you had any threats against you from anybody, or are
you under the radar?
JH: Well, I like to believe that I’m a highly spiritual guy, but not
religious.
JH: I’m still under the radar. I haven’t had any threats. But I live
in Mexico, just in case. [laughs] I’m paranoid, so I keep out of
the radar, and I don’t think that... BR: I appreciate the difference.
I think I probably have another year or two before the FDA says: JH: OK. All right. And so, I believe that the more spiritual a
Uh oh, this stuff is starting to reduce the income of the drug person is, and the more he looks into doing things that he knows
companies. And that’s what’s going to really do the thing. When is right to do, the more power he has. And I believe that in the
the money starts decreasing, when it looks like that the MMS is whole movement towards a better health movement, or a better
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movement towards making people well who are sick -- which is BR: I would say that this shift has started. We’re starting to see it
totally against what the medical people are doing nowadays -- but in our own lifetime, and we’re very privileged to be here at this
I believe that the more people work towards right things, the time.
more power they have.
JH: That’s right. Yeah. I feel exactly the same way. And I think
Because, if they’re really doing what they know is right, they that... And to carry it a little bit further than that, I think that in
aren’t going to have any guilt. They aren’t... Buried in the past, many millions of years or thousands of years, that many
everybody’s mind somewhere, if he’s doing wrong, if he’s of us... that there was a group of us who agreed to be here and to
fleecing people of their money, if he’s causing people to die, work on this particular paradigm shift.
somewhere deep inside there he knows that he’s doing wrong.
And if knows that, he loses more power as time goes on. BR: And I’m one of those, too! [laughter]
And I think that that’s happening on Earth today -- now. I think JH: See? And so, I’m meeting a lot of them. I mean, you’re not
that as those drug companies cause more and more deaths, and as just... A lot of people are calling me on the phone and saying:
the FDA causes more and more deaths in more and more people, Hey, I remember when we agreed to be here. You know? And
that they are slowly losing their power. And not nearly as fast as things like that.
we’d like, but they are losing their power.
BR: Sure.
And I think that the alternate medicine movement is slowly
gaining power, and the people in it are becoming more powerful.
And it’s happening to me. What’s happening to me, to a certain JH: Right. And so we’re doing what we know is right. And
extent, is, people are showing up to talk to me about powerful we’re so much more powerful than those guys out there that are
things. screwing people over, and causing deaths, and causing suffering
and pain, and all that. They don’t have a chance. They’ve lost.
They just don’t know it. [laughs] And it’s gonna take a while to
BR: Mm hm. get the point across to them, but it’s gonna be. It’s gonna happen.
JH: And I’m not free to discuss most of ’em. But I think that we So that’s the part of it I like to mention because I watched the
are on the edge of a paradigm-change in the healing industry. suffering and the pain for so long that I like to see... I see it
And I think that that paradigm-change will happen in the next happening. I’ve seen the thousands of miracles in the past few
very few years. It won’t be a long time. years. And I know we’re gonna see a lot more.
And that will help us into a paradigm-change in the brutality of BR: I think you’re absolutely right. And you’re right at the
man against man. And I don’t know how long that change’ll take. vanguard of the shift. You’re part of the movement that’s actually
That change may take 50 to a couple of hundred years, but it’s making this happen. You’re exactly in the right place at the right
changing. And it never has changed. time.
For hundreds of thousands of years, there has been no change in JH: Well, thank you. [laughs]
the brutality of man against man. I mean, they talk about Jesus,
and they talk about Mohammed, and they talk about all of these
wonderful people that have come before. And there are hundreds BR: You’re a great man, sir. You’re a very brave man for
of them, really. And they’ve all taught love, and they’ve all coming out to do this stuff so openly. Even if you are underneath
talked about these wonderful things. And there’s been NO change the radar, there are tens of thousands of people who will be
in the paradigm of brutality of man. watching this video and who will be paying very close attention
to what you’re saying. You’ll be saving a lot of lives. And I take
my hat off to you, sir. [laughter] It’s been a great privilege.
And I think that those of us, now, are beginning to come together
in communication -- not necessarily gathering in one place, but in
communication. JH: Well, thank you. Certainly it’s my privilege to be here and to
have you say such wonderful things.
People are talking to me from all over the world. And other
people, like this group here, that we’re having a congress here BR: Thank you, Jim Humble.
about alternate medicine, and that sort of thing. And I just was to JH: You’re welcome. [background applause] Thank you. Thank
another congress in Mexico City. And congresses are happening you. Thank you.
all over. And they’re talking about alternate medicine. And these BR: And I meant what I said.
things weren’t happening 20 years ago. Very few of ’em was JH: Great. I appreciate it.
happening even 10 years ago. BR: I’d love to see you again next year when maybe you can say
a little more.
JH: Right!
But, believe me, we’re going into a paradigm shift. It’s coming
slowly, but it’s gonna happen. And it’s gonna happen because
there are a lot of people on Earth now that are beginning to do
what they know is right.
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Project Camelot:
.
Stephen Bassett - Interview Transcript

13 November 2008
Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot. And I’m here with • His statements on camera at the National Press Club on two
Bill Ryan from Project Camelot, and Stephen Bassett from occasions.
Paradigm Research Group. And Stephen, we’re here to talk to • The writings of Bill Richardson, who was Secretary of Energy,
you about Disclosure. We’re here in Sedona. It’s a gorgeous day. ambassador to the UN, a congressman, vice-presidential
candidate, and a presidential candidate, that the Roswell
And we want to ask you some questions and go over the explanation by the government didn’t hold water.
Disclosure process that you think is gonna happen; and at the • These, plus, of course, the entire Rockefeller initiative, which
same time give you some feedback from what we’re getting from involved the Clintons and which we have the documents
our witnesses, whistleblowers, and the like. And talk about that confirming, including Hillary Clinton, who also ran for
some. president.
Stephen Bassett (S): Sure. Let’s do that. All of this activity has gone on. They have never accounted for it
-- meaning they’ve never come forward with a side explanation:
Bill Ryan (B): The elevator-speech opportunity is to explain in Here’s why we’re saying things like that. They’ve never been
two sentences why you think Barack Obama will be the asked about it.
“Disclosure President.”
That, plus other stuff which we don’t have the time to get into,
S: Well, it’s that simple: When the music stopped, he got the last has convinced me that in fact they have decided: We’re going to
chair. All right? That’s one reason. be that party unless the Republicans choose to take the mantle --
which they did not do.
And the other reason is, there’s pretty good evidence that the
Democrats at the “think-level”, at the behind-the-scenes level you B: I heard you say that it could be just a 15-minute process with
don’t really see -- not out of the political front stuff -- that they, a simple, sweet, sharp, concise, apologetic announcement that
prompted, I think, by the Rockefeller initiative that was launched there are disks, we’re not alone in the universe, contact has been
at the Clinton administration in ’93, started the wheels going established for a while, it’s been a national security issue, and
deep in the party to work it out so they would be the “Disclosure now it’s OK to disclose this.
party”. Meaning they would be the administration in power when
Disclosure takes place. S: Not quite. Not quite. What I’m saying is, the “Disclosure
Event” as it’s defined by the activists, the advocacy groups that
They weren’t able to do it under Clinton, for a host of reasons. are doing this, of which Paradigm Research Group is one, is with
But after two Bush terms, they have won. They’re in. And there’s a capital “D” and it’s carefully defined for very good reasons.
evidence they’ve been preparing for that.
It is nothing more than the formal acknowledgement by the
And I think one of the things that they’re gonna do -- and there’s government of the ET presence -- that they are here, they’re real.
a lot of things they’re gonna do. This is gonna be a major That’s it. That’s Disclosure. Everything else, whatever
administration, for better or for worse. Big stuff -- is they’re information, whatever else we learn… that is post-Disclosure.
gonna Disclose early in the spring of 2009. And so that’s why
Barack will be the “Disclosure President”. That’s the paradigm-line. That’s the demarcation point. That has
to happen before we get anything else.
K: Are you getting this from insiders? I mean, you know,
whistleblower-type people, at all? B: But the problems are gonna be in post-Disclosure, aren’t
they?
S: No. This is based on assessing public information about the
activities of notable Democrats. Right? S: Plenty.
K: OK. B: Because, what we’ve talked about off-camera, is that the first
15 minutes are easy. The next hours of detailed probing, smart
S: So, there’s no ambiguity here: questions from reporters all over the world who are not fools,
who’ll do their research, who’ll talk to people as us and you…
• John Podesta’s actions with respect to the Coalition of

Freedom of Information. S: Sure
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B: It’s like… How easy is that gonna be for any administration silent on it initially – meaning: We’ll talk about that later --
to deal with that? because it’s complicated? Do they go out and say: We don’t
believe there’s a serious threat?
S: The post-Disclosure process is not going to be easy. It’s going
to be complicated and difficult which is why, like, a lot of smart I think they’re going to say something along the lines of: There’s
people are involved. All right? With good intentions. no reason for you to get overly concerned. There’s no reason for
you to panic or get upset.
But the government is not stupid. They are going to handle this in
a way that is as orderly as possible and makes them look as good K: OK. But these are people that have seen the movies, you
as possible. know.
So the initial press conference at the Disclosure announcement S: I know.

may go on for an hour or two. It obviously will leave everybody
wanting more. And then they’ll announce when they’re gonna K: And read the books.
have the next one. Right? Say: Look, we’re going to hold the next
one with new information in 6 days. Or whatever.
S: Sure.
And they’ll pace it. And they’ll do whatever else they can to
make it orderly. That’s exactly what any reasonable person would K: And, I mean, they just watched War of the Worlds, Steven
do and what the government would do. They’re not stupid, even Spielberg-style.
though some people think they are. But that’s not the…
S: Yep. Exactly.
The real difficult part is the total unfolding and all of the
confusion and all of the -- everybody acting at once. It‘ll be kind K: And basically this is a government that they find out has been
of like the Oklahoma Land Rush. All right? Everybody’s racing actually -- I mean, I’m not sure how you’re characterizing it, but
aboard, nobody’s really paying attention. People are running into what we know is -- lying to the people for 60-odd years.
each other. Wheels are flying off of wagons. There’ll be a little of
that. It’s unavoidable. Hopefully it won’t be too, too awful and S: I call it a “truth embargo”.
nobody will get seriously hurt. It will be complicated.
K: Right. OK.
K: Well, I have a question. OK?
S: OK? They’ve lied to us about a lot of things. Like: Do you

S: Yeah. have a stealth bomber in development? No. The line: “For
national security reasons” is accepted.
K: How do you Disclose? How does the government Disclose
without admitting that they don’t have the power? K: And they’re not going to be lying about the threat?
S: Well, first of all, you Disclose. You don’t admit anything S: Again, when they announced that they had a B-2 bomber, well
right away. You Disclose the ET presence. Right? Now, one of they hauled the thing out, you know?
the questions…
K: Right.
K: Disclose where? How? In the skies?
S: So, I mean, maybe people could have said: Maybe you’re

S: Engaging our planet, as everybody has been seeing for years. lying about it. But here’s this bomber here.
Remember, the Disclosure isn’t gonna happen in a vacuum.
No. Understand that the Disclosure event is not occurring in a

K: OK. But there’s no threat? vacuum. There is 61 years of research and public engagement of
the issue, plenty of information. So, when they step forward,
S: That’s an interesting call. Ah… [searching for words] people will know: Oh, that’s what you’re referring to.
K: Because you get into the issues of sovereignty the minute you Nevertheless, the issue of threat is significant. I’m sure what they
get into this. would want to do, and I hope they can do, is to simply say: There
is no need for concern. Or: There is no threat from the entities.
S: Oh, there’s all kinds of issues.
Now, if there is, and they say there isn’t, then right away, you
K: Right. see, we’re into mendacity, and of course that’s not going to sit
well.
S: Look, the government has to decide, but one of the toughest
decisions they have to make is the threat issue. Do they stay
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So if they don’t say there is a threat – if they don’t really go there Worse than that, China supports UFO research, has no problem
– but they simply say there’s no reason to be concerned right with it, encourages you do it. Want to practice Falun Gong? Not
now, then that’s a clue that there may be a threat. And of course a good idea. Want to be a UFO researcher? No problem.
we’ll see how that goes.
They’re an emerging power. They’ve got a 4,000-year history.
Again we don’t know all the details. They have significant They’ve got a 16% growth rate, and they just launched people
problems that they’re facing. This is the biggest event in human into space. They could very well Disclose and therefore the
history. Obviously it’s going to be complicated and difficult. legacy goes to Chairman Mao and his followers and his, you
know, those that inherited the Maoist…
K: OK. Now, we have to also know: Why are they gonna
Disclose now? I bet a lot of people in our government don’t like that idea. And
so it’s now come down to this: Who’s going to do it first? You
S: I’ve talked about that extensively. There’s several reasons. gonna wait, gonna take a chance? Why would you delay one
more month if France could pop the cork on that Chateau 1947?
By waiting a month, you lose the greatest political legacy of all
K: OK. time? How do you explain that your handlers? All right?
S: The truth embargo itself, this ability to somehow convince the The game is up. It’s only a question of who and when. So that is
institutions that there’s no reason to fund it, teach it, or cover it, why I believe that the Democrats must go through with
as the press, you know -- it’s falling apart. I mean, it’s run its Disclosure. And given the fact that this is all out there on the
course. internet, and we’re all talking about this…
Like the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union had a good thing going. It’s very possible that France may say: Well, monsieur, if you’re
They had the national security structure. They had everybody going to Disclose in April, I think we will Disclose in January.
under surveillance. They could send you to the gulag. They had OK? [Kerry laughs] I’ve got a gorgeous wife and people love me.
total control, a massive army. So why didn’t it last forever? They love her. I’ll do the Disclosure. What is he, president of
Because eventually it just ran its course. France?
It fell apart under its own weight… mostly the weight of lies. B: President.
Lies don’t make good building materials. This thing has run its
course. It’s about unraveled. It’s kind of like over-cooked
chicken, to be honest with you. So one reason is, look, the boat’s K: Sarkozy.
sinking. You gonna leave the boat or are you gonna…
S: And wouldn’t that be a kick? You know?
K: You mean actually because of people like us, both you and I
and my partner. K: But…
S: And thousands more. S: America would deserve that kick, in a sense.
K: And thousands more. K: OK. But you’re talking as though these people actually act
independently of one another. And what we understand, what
S: YouTube videos, networking on the internet, the laptop we’ve been told by a number of witnesses, is that as a matter of
computer -- this is… fact, they’re all on the same team. That means France, Britain,
US. You know.
K: The truth is out there.
S: Well, if they’re all on the same team, why were we re-naming
our French fries “freedom fries” back in 2004?
S: But there’s one more really powerful reason why.
K: But that was a political move to get the people to hate…
K: OK.
S: This is not a political legacy. This is about history.
S: There is ample indication that other nations that are aware of
the ET presence within their military intelligence community
have just about reached the end of their lies on this. And if we K: …manipulation of the populace.
don’t Disclose, they are. And then we’ll be going: Oh man. Well,
OK. France has just let you know. I guess we’ll have to tell you, S: Look, there are plenty of treaties. We’ve had NATO forever.
too. There’s all kind of deals in the first-world, all kind of
arrangements. We know that. We cooperate and also don’t
Does that sound like a “super-power” to you? Does that sound cooperate.
like “the leader of the free world” to you?
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This issue has a 60-year history, where the first-world nations, all And the president goes one more notch up in the history of all
the NATO nations including Australia, have basically said: You great leaders. The benefits now far outweigh the detriments.
guys won the Cold War. You spent 13 trillion. You won World That’s another reason why it’s happening. And before, they
War II pretty much. We owe you. It’s your call. didn’t.
Now they’re pretty much fed up. Right? Things are falling apart This is Machiavellian thinking. But it’s true -- governments tend
and we’re still sitting on this truth embargo like a hen on an egg. to act in their best interest. I’m simply saying the best interest of
It’s trying to hatch, but it won’t hatch. government now is to Disclose. And you can make a very good
case for it.
K: OK. But you release…
There’s some hardened guys in there. They’re gonna sit there in
S: At least get off the egg! the bowels with a gun, holding on to the last classified file,
saying: No! I can’t! You can’t take this from me!
K: You release the ET question and you have to talk about free
energy. Now this is also a huge problem. And this is part of the Eh! So what?
reason for Disclosure.
B: Now, in September 2008, two months ago, we interviewed
S: It’s not a huge problem. Bob Dean for the second time. He gave us this wonderful one-
liner. off camera. And he said that the problem with the
American president standing up in front of the people and
K: No? revealing the truth in some kind of Disclosure declaration is not
the admission of what they’ve known all these years but the
S: No. It might… It was a huge problem in a sense. admission of what they have not yet discovered.
K: They’re killing people over it. S: Yes. Would that be sort of like all the big financial gurus that
came on television shortly after the major market crash, and
S: When they felt that the truth embargo had to be in place saying: I don’t even know how these hedge funds work. We didn’t
during the Cold War, for instance, it was a real problem. If they even know where this was gonna go. We’re into new territory
were to bring out that energy it would undoubtedly lead to the now. We’re off the charts here. [Kerry laughs]
end of the embargo because people weren’t going to buy: Hey,
we stumbled on the antigravity drive, and we’re talking to you Hey, we’ve been there before. We sailed off into oceans, we
now. thought we were going to fall off the end of the Earth. We
launched guys through the Van Allen Belt, maybe they’re gonna
People are gonna say: What about all those UFOs we’ve been get burned up. We’ve gone to the Moon. We’ve sent craft to
hearing about? You didn’t get it from them, did you? And they’ve Mars. Yeah, is there not a lot of stuff we don’t know? No big
got to make more lies. deal.
They just knew that the tech had to be held hostage to the truth B: Do you personally think that the world’s finest military
embargo. Now the embargo’s falling apart. The world’s falling leaders and the new president of America is going to feel
apart. We need that tech. OK? comfortable saying: You know what, there are a whole bunch of
questions that you could ask us that we’re not yet in a position to
answer, despite over 60 years of silence?
Again, the way you’ve got to do it is, first you end the truth
embargo. Now people’re gonna cool. Then you say… And some
people are not happy with that. You know: Why did you lie to us? S: There’s all kinds of questions they still won’t answer. Right?
Why didn’t you tell us sooner? But at least we‘ll kind of know the subject matter that they won’t
answer about.
And you say: I know you’re upset, but, boy, have we got a
present for you. OK? Will they be comfortable? No. They’re not going to be
comfortable. But I’m sure that Donald Rumsfeld wasn’t very
comfortable in any of the press conferences he gave. That’s the
Ba-da-bing! This is the tech we’ve been working on from those job. If you don’t want the job, go open up a chicken franchise.
crashed vehicles. It’s gonna change everything. You like 50-cent
gas? You like heating your house for 5 bucks a month? That’s
gonna happen pretty soon because this tech is now available for K: Right. I have to ask you this, and I understand you sort of
all. answered the question, but I don’t believe the answer. OK?
B: Yeah. S: OK.
S: People are saying: Thank you, thank you, thank you! OK? K: What I want to know is, who’s behind you? Who’s walking
with you down this road? Because you’re a very brave man,
Stephen, and we agree with your philosophy of Disclosure. We
want it just as bad as you do.
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S: There’s a Disclosure movement underway. It’s all over the S: No. But I asked some people that have… And interesting
world. Because of this movement and because of the awareness responses. One person said Hillary was very protective, claimed
factor, 90% of the public says the government now, they know, is that she was very upset that they were talking to Laurance
lying about it. 50% say UFOs are real. 20% have seen a sighting. Rockefeller about it. Bill Clinton was approached by a couple of
I think something like 14% in one poll said: I’ve actually seen an people, including… Paul Davids was interested in his response.
alien. Or: I’ve been in contact.
But the kind of discussion you’re talking about? No. We were
Exopolitical sites are opening up in multiple countries. We’ve got ghettoized. The entire UFO and activist field was ghettoized
all kinds of organizations and initiatives under way. Questions early, in the late ’50s. We’re still in the ghetto. The mainstream’s
are being asked of political candidates. Documents are being trying to work this out.
dumped out of the UK, France. Brazil is cooperating with UFO
researchers. Mexico is doing the same thing. They’re not gonna climb in the ghetto with us to settle the issue.
They’re gonna settle it on their terms. The only question is
I’m just one guy in a movement who, because I have nothing whether the ghetto walls will come down, and we’ll all be able to
better to do, have spent a lot of time in front of the cameras and join in, you see.
on the television and have taken some of the leadership role as a
mouthpiece for the thing. And major and important research is But, you know, we are missing some credentials. A lot of us
being done by others. don’t have that Ph.D. Nobody’s Skull and Bones that I know of.
And we may not have the contacts or the money to be a player.
K: I’m talking about insiders. Have you got insiders coming to
you, saying: Look, Stephen, now’s the moment… On the other hand, we have the internet. We’ve got a lot of
exposure, and a lot of time engrain. And I think this time around
S: No. they’re not going to be able to shove the activists away, like they
did after the Vietnam War and the Women’s Suffragette
K: …push it through? Movement.
S: No. The insiders talk to you, dear, not to me. Right? We’re gonna be here to stay. Because we’ve got our websites;
we’ve got our networks; we’ve got MySpace, Facebook. We’re
there.
K: That’s it?
And I think the press is gonna come to us and they’re gonna say:
S: Yeah. They don’t see me as the “someone to go to”. They see You know, you guys did a great job and we want to know what
you-all as “someone to go to.” you think about this. And books will be written and
conferences’ll be held and I think we’ll have a pretty good post-
I’ve had a couple of meetings with people in government that’ve Disclosure life. I’m looking forward to it.
confirmed the ET issue, yeah. But it’s not like they sought me
out. It was, like, something came up, we got together, a question But, again, you have to earn it. Right? If you withdraw or you get
was asked. Yeah, it’s true but I don’t want to admit it. upset and throw a fit or act badly, you’ll get subtracted out of the
mainstream process.
I had a command sergeant-major, really tough guy, total Bush
supporter, complete Republican, absolutely thinks the cover-up is But I expect to see a certain amount of inculcation of both active
perfectly appropriate. He said: Yeah. Of course there’s ETs. We UFO researches and exopolitical activists into the mainstream
know about that. Told me some other things that were kind of world, including positions in government, in the post-Disclosure
interesting. But it wasn’t some insider/ whistleblower deal. He world.
just confirmed it.
K: OK. Let me throw something at you that’s gonna, maybe,
Again, don’t think of it as insiders coming to me. As you move rock your boat a little bit.
along and talk to people, you’d be surprised. Half the people on
the Hill, including all the staffers, know there’s an ET presence.
They’re no different than the full majority of the people. But S: My boat is not rockable.
they’re not going to talk about it.
K: OK. My understanding is that the different agencies -- which
Again, that’s embargo stuff. That’s part of the surreality. Right? is the Navy, the Army, Air Force…
We probably have a certain number of abductees sitting in
Congress right now, based on just reasonable conservative S: Services.
percentages. But they’re not gonna talk about it.
K: Services. OK. And agencies as well…
K: Have you ever talked to Hillary or Bill Clinton about this, for
example? S: I suppose that would be the NSA, and CIA, and…
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K: Yeah. But specifically, the Navy and the Air Force and the focused and I let history and time sort a lot out. Because to try to
Army, are lead by different ET groups, each of them. do more would be to fail the fundamental purpose.
S: Ah. You see… Now, that’s advanced exopolitical theory. I believe that one of the reasons the truth embargo was able to be
maintained – no disrespect, now -- is that it was extremely easy
K: Yes. Let me just… in theory… OK? And I understand that, to keep researchers for the last 60 years, going all the way back to
you know, this may be hard to even reconcile. the ’40s, chasing their tails day after day after day.
S: Well, it’s theory. And that’s not right! If they did that to physics… Let’s feed the
physics committee with all kinds of interesting but not really
valid theories so that all the physicists are chasing all kinds of
K: Yes. But the question here that I have is, behind the scenes stuff… So we can slow physics down, you see. That would be
you’ve got ETs that look human that may be walking around the pretty damn cruel, wouldn’t it? Well, that’s exactly what they did
Pentagon, as, according to some of our witnesses like Robert with all of us.
Dean, you know, and others.
K: OK. But what about the idea that Truman put together a band
S: Sure. Yeah. of people that are known as MJ-12? And we actually know a
producer that’s actually doing a history on that, that’s sold to
K: So you’ve got people in there that look human that are ET. ABC, and will possibly be on television in the not too distant
You’ve got ETS that don’t look human that are involved, and future.
they may not actually be friends with each other. So you’ve got a
more complex scenario behind the scenes going on while S: MJ-12 has got a lot of substance behind it. And if somebody
Disclosure is theoretically happening. said: What to you feel about the theory of MJ-12? I’d say I have
high confidence.
S: Maybe.
K: OK. But what I’m saying here is, those theories that you said
K: And we’re talking about the halls of the White House. are “over here” and we can’t deal with them?
S: Let’s cut to the chase here. I’ve been approached by lots of S: You can…
people in the last 12 years… all right?... with a vast array of
theories. All right? As you have. And they’re all very interesting K: They will know because they’ve been assigned that task.
and every one of them has potential impact on the process of They will, theoretically, know the answers to those theories.
Disclosure/ exopolitics/ a post-Disclosure world.
S: Who?
But the fact is, unlike the extraterrestrial presence, which has
been researched and developed to the point of absolute certainty
there is an extraterrestrial presence -- the fact that the government K: That MJ-12 group.
is covering it up is an absolute certainty. All right? Once you get
past that… OK?... the certainty level drops off real fast. And S: But that’s post-Disclosure. You see, post-Disclosure… As
when you get into this larger spectrum of theories, the fact is, we soon as things grow appropriate, and as they start revealing
simply don’t know. information, they will start assigning people as… and
departments, and things… to go-to places, because not everybody
B: What you’re saying is, the core story is the only thing that wants to know everything. Certain deep researchers want to know
you’re concerned with. certain things and others could care less.
S: I mean, there may be extraterrestrials among us, or there may K: OK. We’ve got to rap this up.
not be. They may be in the Pentagon and they may not be.
S: And we’ll start to get a bigger picture told to us. We’ll start to
And so, given that, there’s only one appropriate course of action - be able to sort, but that sorting process ain’t gonna happen till
- and that’s to take all of that, put it over to the side for review post-Disclosure.
and consideration at any given time at your leisure, and focus on
the fundamentals -- fundamental truths that you know are solid, K: OK.
that will hold up in a court of law, primo; and pursue that course.
S: It will be a lot of easier. In other words, post-Disclosure could
Because nobody has either the wisdom, the money, or the time, to be done for a few mil. Pre-Disclosure, we’re gonna need billions.
even remotely attempt to incorporate the potential validities of It’s not worth it.
scores of complex controversial theories into the larger picture.
But I like the fact that this information comes forward. I like the
It can’t be done. We must, as Clint Eastwood said in Magnum fact that we’re engaged. I like the fact that something is bubbling.
Force, know our limitations. And so, as an activist, I keep But we must maintain focus and we must understand our
259
limitations and realize there’s only so much we can do. We can’t K: So what you’re saying is that you have a focus, you’re
prove everything, you know. Right? carrying out a mission, and actually your mission is very close to
realization.
David Icke is an example of somebody who set himself a
Herculean task of literally trying to figure it all out before any S: Exactly. We are practically at the finish line, as it turns out.
government would cooperate. Right? That‘s why we’re seeing a lot of motion; we’re seeing a lot of
action; we’re seeing a lot of press and media; people are getting a
K and B: Mm hm. little worked up. Understandable. All right?
S: Boy, that ain’t a job I would want to take on. Right? But he It’s like all those football players -- they cross the goal line, they
gave it a hell of a run. And undoubtedly a lot of what he found start doing all those dances and stuff. They even start dancing
out will be proven true. And some of it won’t be. before they get to the goal line. So it’s like that.
But I describe it… Look. It’s like the Women’s Suffragette I’m optimistic, but there are no guarantees. Expect surprises.
Movement. The point of the Women’s Suffragette Movement
was to get the right to vote for women. It wasn’t to somehow B: So you think 2009 will be quite an interesting year.
figure out and sort out every concern that women have in the
modern world and figure out how to make it right and bring them S: I’m thinking 2009. The spring. If it doesn’t happen then, we’ll
into a proper… and solve… No, it was to get the right to vote, just redouble our efforts to rattle the government’s cage until they
hoping that once they had the right to vote that they would be finally yield. Or China pops the cork and we’ll all learn Chinese
able to assert their own influence and start to correct the issues on a Rosetta stone.
and deal with problems.
K: Absolutely. Stephen, it’s been great. Take care.
All activism is that way. You know, Gandhi‘s job wasn’t to solve
all of India’s problems or build a whole new state. It was just to
get the British out. Get the British out and then we’ll see how
things go.
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Project Camelot:
...Why Would A ROBOT Need A Soul?
261
...Why Would A ROBOT Need A Soul? The artifact, which becomes known among ACIO operatives
as the Compass, is quickly determined to be of extraterrestrial
Logline: origin, and its purpose is eventually construed to be a homing
device. This leads the ACIO to assume it is not an isolated
A scientist defects from a top-secret lab artifact randomly discovered, but rather part of a larger
within the NSA on a quest to save configuration of artifacts – possibly leading to a spacecraft.
humanity from an impending invasion by
a race of robots intent on obtaining An exploratory team from the ACIO is dispatched to the
human DNA in order to secure a ‘soul’. discovery site of the Compass artifact where it is confirmed
that the Compass is a homing device, leading the team to an
Brief synopsis: The eccentric head of a top secret division of intricately designed structure carved deep inside a canyon
the NSA, devoted to recovering and reverse engineering alien wall. A helix-shaped corridor spirals up through the rock with
technologies, faces the defection of his lead scientist, 23 chambers jutting out at ten-meter intervals. This amazing
NERUDA, after discovery of an alien artifact and cave discovery is initially thought to be an extraterrestrial time
paintings left behind by a race of beings who call themselves
capsule left behind by an alien race. Each chamber contains an
the Wingmakers. The artifact reveals the impending invasion
enigmatic wall painting and an impenetrable technology
of Earth by a race of robots intent on obtaining human DNA in
order to secure a ‘soul’. artifact. In the uppermost chamber, the scientists uncover an
optical disc presumably holding the information about the
Neruda’s defection leads him on a quest to discover six other site's creators and their purpose.
Wingmaker sites, located one on each continent. These sites
are thought to contain a solution that will mysteriously trigger After considerable effort to access the optical disc, the ACIO
a built-in technology to avert discovery of Earth by the robots. team, led by Jamisson Neruda, finally succeeds, and
In the end, he must confront his mentor in a race against time, determines that the creators of the site call themselves
whose cho sen method of salvation for the planet is a WingMakers. Over 8,000 pages of philosophy, poetry, music,
technology based on time travel--a solution that Neruda genetics, sub-dimensional equations, and cosmology are
believes could ultimately result in the destruction of the Earth. contained within the disc. The WingMakers are thought to be
representatives of the Central Race, the most ancient race of
WINGMAKERS INTRODUCTION beings in the universe, and the legendary Creator Gods of life
on all of the other galaxies. They are the genetic caretakers of
From a galaxy so remote it is unknown to us, a light brighter the universe, once thought to be Gods when they interacted
than a billion suns is guided through the shaft of a wormhole, with the human race in eons past.
fading in intensity through the expanding cosmos, but not
before some of it – however faintly – reaches earth. Within Thousands of years earlier, aware of the earth's distant future,
minutes, during one moonless night in 1996, a few thousand the WingMakers constructed and left behind knowledge
photons from this powerful light landed on the mirror of a repositories upon earth, on each of the seven continents. The
telescope in New Mexico. A computer at the observatory New Mexico site was the first of the seven to be discovered.
registered the faint signature of light, but no one could have These seven sites are linked together through some mysterious
fathomed that it had triggered something that had been lying means, and the information contained within the sites is for an
dormant in the desert of Chaco Canyon for 1200 years. uncertain purpose.
In the summer of 1996 two college students innocently The WingMakers story chronicles the hero’s journey of Dr.
stumble upon an otherworldly artifact while hiking in northern Neruda and one of his associates (Samantha Folten) as they
New Mexico near an ancient archeological site, called Chaco gradually become sympathizers of the WingMakers’ purpose
C anyon. Through a chain of mysterious events, this artifact and want to make the Ancient Arrow material available to the
ends up in the hands of the ACIO, an ultra-secret, broader scientific community. The leadership of the ACIO is
unacknowledged department of the National Security Agency squarely at odds with making such a disclosure, fearing that
responsible for reverse-engineering recovered extraterrestrial the ACIO’s agenda and hidden power will vanish as a result.
technologies. Given no other options, and with grave danger to himself,
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Neruda defects from the ACIO, taking materials from the Neruda believes he must uncover this knowledge ahead of the
Ancient Arrow site with him. ACIO and share it with the world’s scientific community
before the ACIO can capture him and hide or destroy the
The ACIO, with all of its incredible technology and brilliant WingMakers’ sites. And most importantly, all of this must be
minds, makes every effort to capture Neruda, but with the help done in time to repel the Animus from earth.
of a journalist he manages to outwit the grasp of the ACIO and
uncover the true purpose of the WingMakers’ sites: Shortly after his defection, Neruda finds a journalist and makes
a full disclosure of the Ancient Arrow Project (The Neruda
To repel an ancient enemy of the WingMakers. In the year Interviews). Together, they release the artifacts and selected
2011, a synthetic, soulless race of aliens known as the Animus decoded materials from the Ancient Arrow site over the
are foreseen by the WingMakers to detect earth. The Internet on November 23, 1998. The website is called
WingMakers have stored the requisite knowledge inside the 7 WingMakers.com. • •
sites to help humanity prevent the forceful Animus invasion.
(c) www.wingmakers.com
Contact:
Kerry Lynn Cassidy
Producer
Project Camelot
E-mail Project Camelot at • support@projectcamelot.org

Interview with writer “James” to follow in next Chapter…
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Project Camelot:
Interview With “James”: The Sovereign Integral
“The WingMakers Interview”
The Written Interview With “James”
Introduction by Kerry Lynn Cassidy
November 2008
All, without exception, turned the project down. At the time, I did not
have a screenplay, but instead, the WingMakers website, an ebook, and
the story presented in a the form of a pitch (synopsis and 'logline').
The reasons for passing on the project were varied, but, as a Hollywood
insider for many years, the translation could most easily be seen as the
result of the fact that, at the time, there were two major problems; me,
and the lack of a screenplay.
I was a 'liability' because, in Hollywood-speak, I had no track record and

was a virtual nobody; and without a screenplay, most agents and their
readers were hard pressed to evaluate the material via the
comprehensive and fairly involved website and ebook.
At that point, after packaging and pitching a few more stellar sci-fi
projects without success, including The Montauk Project, based on the
books of the same name by Peter Moon and Preston Nichols, I turned to
making a documentary on UFOs and came across Bill Ryan: and the
rest, as they say, is history.
As Camelot has matured I have kept in touch with Mark and, via Mark,
with James - and never lost sight of wanting to get the WingMakers
made into a major motion picture. In the meantime, I have in the last
Several years ago, before meeting Bill Ryan and co-creating Project year or so been asking Mark if we could do an interview for Project
Camelot, I was working as an independent producer attempting to Camelot with James.
package motion picture projects and pitch them around Hollywood to
high level production companies, producers, directors and agents.
Many months passed, and from time to time I would renew my request.
Finally, out of the blue, I got the following email from Mark saying that
During that time, I was also doing a great deal of research and writing James was willing to do a written interview. I am therefore absolutely
'spec' screenplays, including one on the Anunnaki. In my search for delighted to be able to present the following interview with James.
more information about the Anunnaki, I stumbled across the
WingMakers website.
After receiving his answers to our complex questions I can only say that
I, for one, have even more questions coming to mind. And it is my
After reading everything there was on that site I became convinced that profound hope that this can become an ongoing dialog with what I
the story would make a phenomenal movie, so I set out to contact Mark consider to be one of the clearest minds operating in the world today.
Hempel (the webmaster) and James (the creator of the materials).
Kerry Lynn Cassidy
After a number of phone conversations, I convinced them that I was the Project Camelot
right person to pitch and package their movie to Hollywood; whereupon I November 27, 2008
obtained an option on the rights to produce the movie, depending on my
ability to package the project - which, in this case, meant attracting a top
Question 1 from Project Camelot:
producer, director and production company, even a major studio.
How much of the WingMakers story is true or based on fact?

After months of talking to agents at agencies such as William Morris,
CAA and Endeavor, I managed to place this project in front of Steven
Spielberg, James Cameron, Ridley Scott, and Alejandro González Answer 1 from James: The terrestrial storyline is based on a
Iñárritu by way of their agents and development executives: in the case technique called Sensory Bi-Location (SBL), which is similar to
of Spielberg, specifically Kathleen Kennedy. remote viewing in concept. This storyline is based on my
investigations using this technique as it pertains to the ACIO,
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Incunabula, Illuminati, ET cover-ups, etc. These elements were Lyricus as the Suppression of the Sovereign Integral. Its nine
then modified in name, identity, and locations in order to integrate primary components are delineated below.
with the mythological storyline of the WingMakers and retain the
cloak that surrounds these organizations. It was not my purpose to Before you, the reader, continue on, let me warn you that this is a
expose these organizations or their dubious agendas; however, I sobering and direct analysis of the suppression framework and I
was aware that many of the conspiratorial minded were among would advise everyone who reads this to remain neutral as they
those who cared the most about truth and uncovering it. The examine my answers. If you find the information feeling too
cosmological scope of the story is mythological, while the more “heavy” or evoking fear, set it aside or return to it later. This story
terrestrial elements contained in the Neruda Interviews are based is not for everyone. Some will feel threatened by it and react with
on my experiences with SBL. a sense of alarm, and others will feel like someone pulled the rug
from underneath them. If you feel any of this, you may not be
Question 2 from Project Camelot: prepared to confront these realities.
Some people studying and commenting on current events seem The Secret Framework for the Suppression of the Sovereign
preoccupied with what are perceived by some to be discouraging Integral
messages of gloom, or warnings of potential major problems.
Others focus only on messages of hope and light, and refuse to Human Mind System (HMS) – The Human Mind System is
dwell on bad news. Although we have no trouble incorporating separated into three primary functional mechanisms: The
both views and understand that how they manifest will depend on unconscious or genetic mind, the subconscious, and the
each of us, some of our audience tend toward one view or the conscious. These three components intermingle to form what
other. most people term consciousness. The HMS is the most opaque
and distorted veil that has stood between humanity and its true
What is your own philosophy or that of those you represent about self, perverting its self-expression within the domains we call
this dilemma, and what light can you shed on this ongoing debate reality.
between the two factions, both of whom care deeply about the
future of our world? The unconscious, genetic mind is the repository of all humanity;
the subconscious is the repository of the family bloodlines; and
Answer 2 from James: The ominous situations of our world are the conscious mind is the repository of the individual. However,
very real. It is impossible to look at the policies of governments and this is important to understand, the foundational patterns of
around the world and see coherence, benevolence, enlightened thought are primarily from the subconscious and genetic mind
action, or, in general, behavioral intelligence as an outflow of structures of consciousness. Thus, while the individual believes
equality and oneness. themselves to be individual, unique, separate, and one-of-a-kind,
in reality they are not. Not in the context of HMS.
The human family has been bound up over thousands of
generations and each time returning to our home planet Earth for You can conceptualize yourself as a copy of the human family
the sake of upgrading the previous generation’s dominion, folded inside a copy of your parents and bloodlines, placed into
creature comforts, lifestyle, and technology, while the emotional an individualized expression: you. The “You” is an HMS
maturity remains burrowed in the substrate of rape, abuse, particularized into one expression, but its roots are entirely
enslavement, war, dishonesty, greed, government fraud, and a planted in the soil of humanity and parental lineage, all of which
hundred other vices of weak and disillusioned humans is downloaded into the developing fetus before birth.
programmed to see only the out-picturing of the human mind and
its systems of limitation. This is precisely why, after ten thousand generations, we continue
to operate in the same patterns of greed, separation, and self-
The human family is building a pyramid of manifested life across destruction. The image in the mirror is upgraded with better
thousands of generations and each new generation builds another “clothing” and more sophisticated masks, but underneath, the
layer – an upgrade of technology and lifestyle. We are nearing the image remains the same feelings, the same thoughts, and the same
apex of this pyramid where there is nothing left to add. The behaviors.
pyramid is completed and we – each of us – must look at the
pyramid we have constructed and ask ourselves how it Social and cultural engineering via the entertainment and
exemplifies our transcendence, our true Self. educational systems conspire to entrain the individual during their
developmental years (3-14 years old), activating the programs and
The pyramid of humanity is manifest in the three-dimensional subsystems of the HMS to ensure that the individual is properly
world, but it derives from a set of constructs that are flawed. What prepared to conform to the reality matrix of their time and place.
are these constructs? What makes them flawed? How did Even those who are non-conformists, who fancy themselves
humanity get off course to build structures of civilization and “outside the box”, are well within the perimeter of the HMS.
society that are such poor reflections of who we really are?
Money-Power Grid (MPG) – The reason for the Human Mind
There is a specific framework that has emerged over millions of System to exist is for the Elite to exercise control over the
years to induce humanity to the repetitive post of deficient Money-Power Grid. Money is the prime objective of the Elite
civilization-builders. In the context of your questions, I must because it imbues power to those who possess it. Money takes
begin by defining this framework in order to answer all of your many forms, including assets of precious metals and petroleum,
questions with sufficient detail and bring some new texture and land or real estate, minerals, and products and services. Money is
dimension to the conversation. This framework is known within
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the “God” of the Elite and their banks are the religious institutions Some refer to this as the soul, others refer to it as the astral body,
in which they can worship their God. but it is simply a sheath for the Sovereign Integral to operate
within and it remains subject to the HMS and most of its
The corporate elite, government elite, underground elite, and programming. Thus, even upon death, the Sovereign Integral is
banking elite constitute the MPG controllers. Those in positions not released from the influences of the HMS or the human
of power, especially within the banking sector, are beholden to instrument’s programs.
the MPG and will do everything possible to tighten their controls
of the MPG and manipulate the human family to serve their The Anunnaki created the HMS in order to consign the Sovereign
agenda. Integral – the true Self that is infinite and eternal – into a prison of
conjured illusions and deceptions. So the human instrument was
Interdimensional Universe Structure (IUS) – This is the structure fitted with HMS and the Sovereign Integral was placed within it
of reality domains and how they interface with one another. IUS as the life force, that which powered the human instrument. An
is a very, very complex subject to disclose in a format such as aspect of GSSC was the program we call the fear of death, the
this, so I will only touch the surface. fear of separation, the fear of non-existence.
Human beings are both dimensional and interdimensional. First It was this fear, so powerfully felt by humans, that gave rise to the
Source is all of us. It is the Collective Us. It is not a God living in construct of a separate God, from which a separate Spirit filled
some distant pocket of the universe. First Source is the Human the universe, and from which we were all created in separation.
Collective unencumbered with the HMS. First Source divided Whether one arrives to God through religion or spirituality, does
itself into individualized expressions – us. In the beginning, we not matter, it is the same effect of appeasing the fear of death
inhabited dimensions that were not material, but existed at within the individual just as the program specified. In effect, Anu,
quantum levels of time and space. the King of Anunnaki, positioned himself to be God of the human
world.
However, as the dimensions grew in density through the
expansion of creation (our creation), we, as individualized, The pathway to God, independent of the religion or spiritual path
interdimensional beings, were seduced to enter the human body. one walked, had the same program underlying it: You are a
This seduction was a co-conspiracy of forces led by Anu, the human with a soul, this soul must be redeemed or activated, upon
King of the Anunnaki, who required enslaved workers to mine the which you will be saved. In this process of being saved, you are
physical gold that was present on Earth in abundance. Those relinquished of self-responsibility to the world condition. You are
beings we now consider the Atlanteans, were interdimensional rewarded with a life eternal in the kingdom of God (by whatever
living upon Earth, and Anu, with great cunning, convinced them name you call God) where you can live in bliss and/or serve as a
to embody in human instruments. teacher of the light.
This embodiment was a grand experiment in human engineering, The savior/master construct is an integral part of the GSSC, and
and the Human Mind System (HMS) was at the core of this encourages human beings to yearn for a master to teach them how
project. Anu realized that the only way to enslave the Atlanteans to ascend, how to be saved, how to achieve nirvana, how to live a
was to sheath them in a mind system that would reduce their moral life, and how to ensure eternal happiness. There are masters
capacity to express their true nature, and instead, express the of great wisdom and light who remain within the domain of the
programs embedded within the HMS. These programs were the HMS without knowing their involvement. The subtlety is so
creation of Anu and his scientists. powerful that even when you feel you have achieved self-
realization you remain trapped in the HMS. It is that vast,
especially when compared to the material world.
God-Spirit-Soul Complex (GSSC) – This is the central element of
the HMS that anchors separation. The individualized human
being, free of the HMS, is called the Sovereign Integral in the Saviors can take on the form of many things, including the second
WingMakers mythology. This is the true identity of each and coming of Christ, a wrathful God, the Earth, nature spirits, angelic
every human being. In this model of the Sovereign Integral, we hosts, prophecy, and extraterrestrial forces who will intercede on
are Gods of our local multiverse, and collectively, we are First humanity’s behalf. Each of us is our own and only savior, our
Source in the multiverse. only master who can truly cause us to stand-up within ourselves
and shut down the suppression systems and awaken to their
Sovereign Integral consciousness. This is the liberation path and
Why is GSSC the anchor of separation? We have two paths: this will be discussed in answers that follow.
Religion and Spirituality – each being different sides of the same
coin, and this “coin” is GSSC. Now, Anu, being the intelligent,
clever entity that he is, knew that humans would evolve, and in In essence, GSSC is an aspect of HMS that perpetuates
this evolution they may begin to remember that they are separation. Just as different languages separate, different religious
Sovereign Integrals. Bear in mind that the Atlanteans were highly and spiritual pathways separate the human family, and make
evolved beings before they donned the human instrument of possible a race that is more easily controlled and pacified through
Anu’s creation. Also remember that the human instrument is not the GSSC.
simply the physical body but includes the emotions and HMS, and
that this human instrument is componentized so that while the Death Stress Implant Network Detour (DSIND) – As its long title
physical body dies, a higher dimensional body or sheath that is suggests, DSIND is the descent into humanness and the tether of
based on the physical body carries on. custody to the material world. Within the solar plexus region of
the human instrument is the DSIND module of HMS. This gets a
little complicated because you have to look at HMS as the master
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network, and then there are nodes or implants that plug into HMS. realization or the Sovereign Integral state of awareness. The state
One of these is DSIND, and while it is anchored in the solar of satori, nirvana, cosmic consciousness, enlightenment, and
plexus, it is an intricate network that develops exponentially rapture were all different names for heightened states within the
upward into the heart, neck, and head regions. This is an etheric GSSC, which was still within the HMS domain, but these became
structure that collects, absorbs, and distributes fear, anxiety, checkpoints that triggered GMS interventions. The true state of
stress, and restlessness. the Sovereign Integral – even after death of the human instrument
– was never realized by a member of the human family until very
While the fear of the future dominates this module – from a recently.
programming perspective – Anu was careful to connect it to the
primal fear of death and non-existence. DSIND creates much of Wholeness Navigator – This is the element of HMS that activates
the dysfunction in the human family in terms of its behavioral the individual’s authentic search for God in the context of
deficiencies. It also activates humans for service in religion and wholeness, oneness, unity, and equality. Some people undertake
spirituality paths. this search because they feel an obligation to do this as a means to
appease the expectations of their parents, spouse, or their own
Polarity System (PS) – This is a sub-node of DSIND designed to sense of guilt. The authentic search, as decreed by the Wholeness
create polarities in the HMS and thus create friction between the Navigator, is a recent bypass that has been brought into the
polarities, and from this friction manifest discord and disharmony. human instrument through GMS, which is an open system. While
If you exist in HMS (and you do), then you exist in polarity. It is it is still an artifact of the HMS, it is a backdoor into the liberation
truly that simple. Polarity is what activates and feeds the HMS. It path. More about this later.
is the “food” of HMS because in polarity the human instrument is
lost in separation, which is precisely the point of HMS as Post-Death System (PDS) – This is the system where the
intended by its designers. individual, upon death of their physical body, is greeted by guides
“on the other side” and review their life experience, confronting
Genetic Manipulation System (GMS) – This system was an those areas of deficiency and returning to right the wrongs of their
outgrowth of various interdimensional races working to create a previous life, in other words, karma and reincarnation. The PDS is
suitable instrument for accessing the physical world. It was Anu the means by which the Sovereign Integral remains in the grip of
who specifically wanted to not only access the physical world in illusion even though the illusion is a heightened reality when
order to exploit its resources, but to do so by suppressing the compared to physical existence on the Earth plane. It enables the
infinite beings that would power the human instruments so he had recycling of the Sovereign Integral into physical dimensions over
the equivalent of willing slaves. Yes, infinite beings can be and over again.
suppressed into finite beings when they are subjected to HMS.
This process was initially conceived of as the principal means
In the course of engineering the human instrument, it was decided through which the world would be prepared for Anu to be born
to create GMS as a means to modify the human instrument over into the Earth plane and reign upon Earth as the undisputed world
time, as it evolved, to ensure it would never achieve self- leader. However, that eventuality has been removed as a scenario.
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These nine components constitute the prison complex that every behind the dark forces is over. It is the expression of the
human being is subjected to when they are born, live, and die; no Sovereign Integral consciousness and the deactivation of the
matter how many cycles of birth and death they may undergo. suppression framework that becomes the focus of each individual
in this new era.
With the Suppression of the Sovereign Integral, we are all living
in a Matrix-like world of illusion and deception. While human Question 3 from Project Camelot:
beings are no longer in service to the Anunnaki for the production
of gold, the genetic carry-over of the HMS and the other My own view is that our planet is a conscious being and the
components of the suppression framework are nonetheless still in planet and humanity is moving from the 3rd density into the 4th
operation and the reins of these suppression systems have been to the 5th in the coming years. My understanding is that we have
turned over to, and greedily grabbed by, the Elite. entered the 4th density at the present time. According to the RA
Material, not all of humanity will move into the 5th Density, but
It is well past the hour that humans wake up to what they are will remain in a 3rd density Earth out of choice and due to their
participating in and learn how they can stop it – one individual at emphasis on service to self vs. service to others.
a time. We are the key to our dilemma and we must learn how to
deactivate the suppression matrix so we can awaken to the • How do you view this?
Sovereign Integral consciousness, live within its behavioral
• If your view is different, would you please go into some detail
intelligence, and release ourselves from the grip of the mind and
on what you see?
human instrument.
Answer 3 from James: Earth, as a consciousness, is indefinable.

Those who extol hope and light, I can only say that you will be
The moment you bring in a description of Earth’s consciousness,
disappointed if your hope is contingent on anyone, save yourself,
you define it, and the moment you define it you frame it in
to facilitate change in this world. It is truly as Gandhi explained;
separation, and the moment you separate it into elements you
we must become the change we want to see in the world, but the
deceive its true essence. Earth is a Host Consciousness, and this is
key is to define what change.
its essence, though even that creates separation and therefore a
degree of deception.
Have you ever considered the definition of your Self? What is it
that defines you? If you look in the mirror and peel away the
Yes, the densities are shifting, but these are artifacts of the Human
masks, the pretentions, the deceptions, the fears, the thoughts, the
Mind System (HMS). Even the belief that the near-infinite
feelings; what remains? For most they would answer their soul or
dimensions of the astral and mental planes are real is a
spirit. And if I told you that the soul – as most define it – does not
comparison to the physical plane. I would suggest to you that
truly exist apart from the mind, what would you say?
what is in the purview of the human instrument, which includes
the physical, emotional (astral) and mental densities or
The change I want to see in the world is that people begin to see dimensions are all caught up in the HMS and suppression
themselves as multidimensional beings whose core is the framework. It is not of the Sovereign Integral and it is therefore
Sovereign Integral that is the distillation of First Source in a impermanent, existing in polarity, separation, and deception. In
singular, human expression. If people were only in tune with this other words, it is a creation designed to conceal what you truly
frequency, they would understand that all is united in oneness, are.
equality, and truth. This is the definition of the Grand Portal as it
has been disclosed by the WingMakers mythology for the past ten
The Earth is not shifting to a new dimension in order to raise its
years.
consciousness and ascend to a higher state. Nor are the fortunate
few going to be swept along because they did something better
Each individual is a portal unto themselves, and this portal is the than others and therefore they are the chosen. We, as a human
access point to the interdimensional worlds of the Sovereign family, are being prepared to live as Sovereign Integrals upon
Integral, where the human instrument, like a space suit, is finally Earth. Will this happen in 2012? No.
removed and the individual realizes their true, infinite nature. And
in this realization, understands that everyone – EVERYONE – is
2012 will feel like any other year for most people. There is no
equal in this state, and in this equality we are ONE. The Grand
year or specific time that will define the era of transparency and
Portal is when humanity stands-up as ONE BEING to this all-
expansion, the rise of the Sovereign Integral. It is happening
encompassing realization and then we transcend the suppression
quietly in the most unexpected places. People are beginning to see
framework and express as Sovereigns.
that what has been encoded within their human instrument is a
system of control, deception and manipulation. And at some
2012 is a single page in the “book” called the Era of deeper level, they glimpse a new clarity, as fleeting as it might be;
Transparency and Expansion. The life of deception – the era of they perceive themselves to be more than a system of feelings and
veils over veils over veils – is dissipating, provided enough thoughts packaged inside a body. This is what is to come…
people rise up within themselves and honor the Sovereign Integral people awakening from a virtual reality inside a virtual reality.
within by expressing its truth. But to do this, people must become
attuned to its consciousness apart from the HMS, and this is the
Earth is part of this new transparency. Nature has already donned
course of action that people must engage in.
this new apparel and wears it proudly, but humans have not
noticed for our programs lack the perception. It will be, in part,
The seeking of information is over. The seeking of a master, guru, through Nature that the human family will be awakened, and
religion, spiritual path, or way-shower is over. The seeking of Earth is preparing for this eventuality. When it occurs, it is not
objects of blame is over. The seeking of hidden information because Earth is vengeful, or God, working through Earth, is
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delivering His wrath. It is Earth/Nature expressing its new relationships, illness, depression, and hopelessness. The
transparency and expansion in its own way. suppression of their identity as a Sovereign Integral that lives in
eternal and unconditional oneness, equality, and truthfulness is
Consider the following story: Advanced humans, living on an not even a consideration in their search.
interdimensional level were cleverly induced to embody human
instruments designed by a foreign intelligence, the Anunnaki. As Earth, consisting of the animal, plant, and mineral kingdoms as
this “work force” was developed, the physically embodied well as the elements of air, water, and fire, combined with Nature
humans became utterly accepting of their limitation because it as defined by the cosmos, is the “Queen” on the chessboard that
was systematic in suppressing the Sovereign Integral First Source can use. These are strategic instruments through
consciousness – the infinite and eternal life force that powered which specific walls of the prison will be destroyed and
their human vessels. individuals who are properly prepared can reclaim their identities
as Sovereign Integrals and establish a new transparency and
Early on, human bloodlines intermixed with their designers, and expansion within their wholeness.
the human evolutionary pathway into diversity was accelerated.
Part of this diversity was contained within the elite societies that Now, just because some walls of the prison will be taken down,
helped to formulate the separation of the human family in the does not mean that everyone will run out and embody their new
Money Power Grid. The designer “Gods”, the Anunnaki, were freedoms. The prison is constructed of many walls, and when one
ultimately satisfied with their mining operations and left Earth wall falls down, there is the initial rush of relative freedom, but
and their human creation behind. there remains another wall and another wall after that. The prison
is a labyrinth and until the individual is not relying on pictures,
The human genome was adaptive within the matrix of the Human images, sounds, words, feelings, and thoughts to interpret their
Mind System (HMS) and evolved into the present day human world, they remain inside a wall of the prison I have previously
family we have in the early 21st Century. So now we have a race described as the suppression framework of the Sovereign Integral.
of beings that are trapped inside a suppression framework
unknowing of their condition, worshipping Gods that do not exist, Many will not feel comfortable with the spatial qualities and long
believing in heavens and hells that are part of the HMS landscape, horizons of this new era. They will resist the transparency and
praying to masters and saviors to absolve their sins and moral expansion because they have come to identify so strongly with
apathy, and continuing to fear death and non-existence as if they their HMS that anything that tears at that identity, threatens what
were absolutely unaware of their true nature. they perceive as their hold on existence.
Let’s say that you are the true God, First Source. What would you Others, who are prepared, will easily embody this new era and
do to awaken people to their true nature? What process would you transition into it like a baby eagle taking its first flight – a little
use to shift the human family to a perspective of realization that awkward at first, but quickly mastering the required skills. While
what they had believed in was of deception and suppression of Earth and Universe Nature play key roles in the liberation
their true natures, knowing that the components of the maneuver, the preparation of the individual is their own
suppression framework could not be removed overnight or the responsibility. It is a balanced equation: Earth/Nature + Individual
individual would likely go crazy or, worse yet, perish. What Preparation = Sovereign Integral Realization.
would you do?
The First Point of process is the key factor of preparation. If your
First Source has limited moves on the “chessboard” because First Point for the reclamation of the Sovereign Integral state of
humanity is sealed inside a prison where the guards and warden of consciousness is anything less than unconditional oneness,
the prison control the money system and hold and distribute the equality and truthfulness in the expression of every moment, then
power among themselves. The spiritual and religious leaders are you will hit many walls within the prison, and each time you do,
equally caught up in the prison, occupying the more righteous you will be required to start over. Thus, the initial point of self-
sections, but still within the same prison. The interdimensional realization must be aligned to the realization itself. This is due to
beings like ascended masters and angels are also imprisoned the mathematical equations that guide the process.
though their freedoms seem near-infinite when compared to the
human inmates. Question 4 from Project Camelot:
There are a handful of humans, who have removed the HMS and What is your understanding of coming events in the next few
its assorted systems of separation and broken out of the prison, years up to and beyond 2012? We have many whistleblowers,
but these are an infinitesimally small percentage, and generally experiencers and futurists, conveying visions of future events that
their writings, stories, techniques are received as “crazy talk” by may include:
their fellow inmates. And even if a handful of humans escape the
prison, the prison sends its guards to re-capture them or discredit
them in such a way as to render their deeds as “supernatural” or, • A magnetic pole reversal
worse yet, demonic. • A physical pole shift
• A CME (Coronal Mass Ejection)
The real problem in this story is that the humans within the prison • All of the above, possibly exacerbated by the close approach
do not see the prison as a prison or the guards as guards. They are of Nibiru to Earth.
oblivious to their imprisonment. Thus, they are not trying to
escape from the prison; rather, if they are seeking to escape from Can you comment on the above scenarios? Do you have reason to
anything, it is from boredom, anxiety, poverty, pain, bad believe that any of these may occur?
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Answer 4 from James: Let me be clear: the universe we are in, in human beings, and the money. This constitutes one system,
its entire physical splendor and stature is part of the prison I though it may seem unwieldy and impossible to control, it is quite
defined in the previous question. I realize the term “Prison” controllable to those whose hands hold the reins and control the
carries a negative meaning, but if there is furniture within a prison vital organ – the brain.
do you say the furniture is evil or negative? No, it is just furniture
that happens to be inside a prison. So it is with the planets and The “brain” of the CS is the banking system. It operates on the
stars and the universe as a whole. First Point paradigm that life is money, and money is life. It is the
origin of human existence that money is life, and in this single
Therefore, the phenomena that our senses perceive, whether it is thought-form humanity has evolved, distilling its ancient
pole shift or a 9.0 earthquake, remain inside the Human Mind memories in our present-day banking system.
System (HMS). Phenomenon is deception. Everyone wants a
vision, and struggles to see the other side, not realizing that these The Collective System interacts with HMS and creates the
features – images and sounds – are more of the HMS, just a more primary “walls” within the HMS prison spoken of in question 4.
subtle rendering of the prison walls in the outer reaches of the The Collective System body is failing, and it is failing because the
labyrinth. new era of transparency and expansion is underway. These forces
of CS and the era of transparency and expansion are colliding in
I think in my previous answer (question 3) you can see that I our time, and for the Sovereign Integral consciousness to manifest
believe Earth/Nature are the primary catalysts that First Source is in this physical field, the Collective System must change to
orchestrating to support humanity’s realization of itself as accommodate it, as they are like oil and water and can not mix.
Sovereign Integrals. Thus, it will feel as if Earth and the entire
universe is compressing in upon the individual, tightening it grip Thus, those who hold the reins of the Collective System have
around your very being. This compression is the very tool that is great fear that something is amiss. Something is happening in the
being deployed by First Source to help activate you. world that portends great change, and change is not something
they embrace. In the face of change, which to them is a lessening
Relative to Nibiru, it is not a factor. In a sense it has been of power, they will undertake nefarious plans to keep the
removed from the equation of the Sovereign Integral for a population distracted, uneasy, nervous, uncertain, ignorant,
complex set of reasons I won’t go into here. overburdened with technology, attentive to fear, and
disempowered.
All of the items and more that you list in your question are in
We are getting various reports from whistleblowers about a dark various stages of planning. That is not to say they will be
agenda of the Illuminati that includes: successful in launching them, but they are being planned, and
even in the contemplation of these plans you can see the sinister
nature that has overtaken elements of the human family.
• A crash (or end) of the dollar and 1930s-like conditions in the
U.S.
The Collective System will fall. It must fall. The organs will shut
• Martial law and possible herding of people into prison camps.
down and the body will die. This will take time, it will be a
• Spread of viruses around the world aimed at reducing two-
process that will take many years which will thankfully provide a
thirds of the population.
transition stage so humans can adapt to the new body that is being
• Micro-chipped population and increased electronic built to support and sustain the new Sovereign Integral
surveillance, thereby curtailing freedom still further. consciousness as it – the origin of us – becomes known as us in
this world.
While we have conflicting testimony about all of the above, it
seems clear that some of the above may already have begun. Can
you comment on the above scenarios? Do you have reason to As each of us de-program ourselves and deactivate our HMS,
believe that any of these may occur? there is a corollary access to the Sovereign Integral, and in this
access, we create the best opportunity we have of defeating the
dark agendas that exist on Earth, as well as easing the transition
Answer 5 from James: The global systems of our planet can be between the deteriorating Collective System body of today and
thought of collectively as a Being composed of organs like the the new one that will replace it.
heart, brain, liver, etc. The global systems are banking,
government, military, religious, educational, food production,
energy, transportation, and commerce, and each of these is an Question 6 from Project Camelot:
organ in the body of the Collective Human Mind System Reality
or, simplified, the Collective System (CS). Each of these nine Please address how people can best prepare for the coming
global systems is an organ that depends on the “blood cells” to changes, regardless of where they are on the spectrum of
keep it alive, to circulate the nutritional ingredients within the awareness at this time. Our view is that although there are
larger body, and human beings are the blood cells, and money is preparations that can be made in the physical reality, a safe place
the breath that brings the oxygen to the CS. is only a reflection of the consciousness of those who are gathered
there and no one location may necessarily be better than
This is the body of the collective HMS existence, and it is anywhere else (depending on the path each has chosen for
precisely this that humans animate and make possible through experiencing these times).
their own survival programs and the exchange of money. The
Collective System is the aggregate of the global systems, the
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Answer 6 from James: This is a complex question to answer Quantum Pause is a simple, four-stage process beginning with an
because it truly depends on the individual, but the universal in-breath of anywhere between three and six counts, depending on
support system for each of us is our breath. It is the breath that your lung capacity, posture, and degree of privacy. After you have
connects us to our point of origin, and when I use that term I gathered in your breath, breathing through your nose, you hold it
don’t mean birth in the physical – this life or any other. I am (pause) for an equal count, and then exhale through your mouth,
referring to the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness that is again, for the same count, and then hold (pause) for the same
our pure state of being. count.
Breath is the way in which the human instrument connects to this The breath pattern is described below using an example of a four
origin point anywhere in spacetime. Breath is the portal between count. The key is to maintain symmetry in each of the four
the physical dimension and the quantum or interdimensional segments of the process. If you are using a three count, apply it
domains, but it is not the normal, autonomic breathing, rather it is equally in each segment. It is not essential that you monitor this
a very specific breathing pattern that we call Quantum Pause. with precision, instead, apply a casual monitoring of your time for
each segment and keep a consistency to the flow.
One cycle is described above, and it is recommended to do three This consolidation period usually lasts about three to five
to four cycles in a row and then return to normal breathing. This minutes, but there are no set time limits. Use your intuition to
“normal” breathing period is called the Consolidation period. guide this period of time. Generally, each repetition of the
Keep your eyes closed throughout the process and sit with your consolidation, and usually there are four or five, becomes less
back straight in a comfortable position, both feet on the ground. crowded with thoughts or feelings, and by the time you enter the
When you begin your consolidation period, it is a time for you to final consolidation period you have emptied yourself of thoughts
bring focus and all of your attention to those things that bubble to and feelings and entered the quantum domain.
the surface of your consciousness, knowing that these arise for a
reason. This is an excellent time to apply the Six Heart Virtues The diagram below depicts a typical session of Quantum Pause.
(appreciation, compassion, forgiveness, humility, valor, and Notice there are three cycles of the breath and then a
understanding) to any thought or feeling that manifests. consolidation period in this particular example. This repeats four
times. You can have as many as five cycles of breath interspersed
with consolidation periods, again, symmetry is important.
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The application of Quantum Pause may seem an unlikely way to You might also find value in the practice of the Quantum
de-activate the Suppression Framework of the Sovereign Integral Moment.
and more effectively handle the transition stage we are in, but I
would encourage you to try it for three weeks and see what results The Quantum Moment is dissecting your day into passages of
you achieve. Only through your own experience can you judge time. In other words, “moments”, in this definition, are passages
the merit of Quantum Pause. If, after three weeks of daily of time or events. For example, let’s say you get out of bed in the
practice, you experience a new clarity and connection to your morning; you are now starting a new passage or quantum
origin point, then you will be motivated to continue, and in this moment. Before you move into the new passage, you practice an
decision you have established your new First Point upon which abbreviated Quantum Pause – one or two breath cycles: in-breath,
unconditional oneness, equality and truthfulness can stand. quantum pause, out-breath, quantum pause. This re-establishes
your First Point, grounding your physical-based human
There are many nuances to the Quantum Pause technique, and I instrument in the quantum domain. As you go through the passage
would encourage you to discover them on your own, in your own of waking up, washing your face, brushing your teeth, etc. you are
way. This is but a basic technique that I have shared with you, but stepping through passages of time.
there are subtleties to this technique that are powerful
enhancements and these will occur to you while you’re in the The Quantum Moment, as its First Point, perceives that the
process of using the technique, so remain open while you practice individual is sovereign and infinite and exists here. Right here. It
it. is not flying about on the soul planes; it is not hidden in the robes
of a God or Master; it is not separate from your human
Some quick suggestions to get you started. The quantum pause instrument; and it does not avoid the human condition. It is, and
immediately after the out-breath can provide a subtle sense of always will be, right here. As previously said, the quantum
panic for some people. If this occurs, shorten your count so you moment is a passage of time that feels like a portal is stepped
have less time elapse for each segment. For example, if you were through and you enter a portal of experience different than the
using a four count cycle, shorten it to three. This feeling of panic previous passage. They can be simple like walking from your car
will go away as you practice the technique. These “hitches” or to your workstation at the office – that’s a moment – and the next
quantum pauses have a purpose that you will come to understand. moment the phone rings and you transition to the new moment of
talking with someone.
I would also suggest that you focus your attention on your breath
– its sound, its texture, how it feels inside your lungs, how your Your entire life is a series of moments or passages of time, and in
lips form in the out-breath, how it flows through your system, etc. each passage you are accompanied by your infinite Self that is
This focus aligns you with First Point or the origin point of your seeking one thing on this Earth: Self-realization of itself within
Sovereign Integral because it is the breath that is the Portal of the the human instrument.
infinite and eternal being that you truly are, and it is through this
portal that it is manifesting in physicality. In our world, information and knowledge is dispensed like fire
hydrants uncapped, expulsing in every direction. Everyone is
When using Quantum Pause, there is a natural tendency to look telling you the way to truth is this way or that way, and the “way”
for the experience of Light or to see new dimensions, speak with leads into separation and therefore deception.
Beings or even God, or have a “wow” experience that really
confirms that you’re on the right path. The practice of Quantum While you are in the Quantum Moment, you see the fork in the
Pause will bring you new experiences and awareness, but leave road is always one of two ways: truth or dishonesty. Truth is the
your expectations behind. Again, human beings love visual breath of life issuing from the Sovereign Integral. Dishonesty is
stimuli. They love to see higher dimensions as if seeing is the Human Mind System parroting the knowledge and
believing. But all that is in the quantum spacetime does not information that is ricocheting in every corner of our lives via cell
conform to the Human Mind System. Quantum is origin. It is phones, television, books, seminars, movies, podcast, e-papers,
meta-physical, which precedes visual, acoustic, and sensory data. websites, newspapers, and human relations.
It precedes feelings and thoughts. It exists before these stimuli
and is indeed hidden behind them to some extent.
To realize the Self as the Sovereign Integral here, and express this
consciousness while in the human instrument, requires that you
The “wow” experience may manifest in a form that your HMS focus the Six Heart Virtues within your local universe – the
cannot interpret or translate into images, words, feelings, and passages of your life in which you physically move – and apply
thoughts. Therefore, do your best to eliminate expectations of an them ceaselessly. The key to realization is a direct, sober, truthful
experiential nature and simply follow your breath. The moment assessment of your behaviors and applying the Six Heart Virtues
that the Sovereign Integral reaches into your HMS and announces to those behaviors that have become expressions of your self-
its presence, you will never forget, nor will you mistake it for deception and dishonesty.
anything other than what it is. And when that time comes, you
might be brushing your teeth, writing an email, or resting on the
couch. It happens in its own time. The Quantum Moment helps you to be present in the moment and
to see your Self as the observer, not passing judgment on others or
yourself, but retaining the sober assessment of the Sovereign
In addition to the practice of Quantum Pause, I would suggest that Integral and applying forgiveness and understanding to the
you consider new paradigms for your way of life. For example, I passage in which you most recently entered throughout your life.
have disclosed the Six Heart Virtues (a free PDF download) in It becomes a way of life.
some detail on the Event Temples.org website. This practical
orientation helps you move through life with greater harmony.
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Please address the subject of Ascension from your point of view absolves you of responsibility related to this world’s real
(or that of those you are speaking for). What exactly is conditions of hunger, inequality, rape, war, abuse, servitude,
Ascension? How would you recommend that people view it and illness, racism and a hundred other maladies. The absolution
accommodate it in their spiritual awareness? comes in the form of your journey itself. The diversion. The
separation.
Answer 7 from James: To understand ascension it is necessary to
understand its origins. The concept of ascension arose out of Realization of the Sovereign Integral consciousness is realization
division and disconnection. Religion conceived that Source or of one’s True Self as present in everyone else. You see the
God was outside the Self, living in some remote dimension of condition of the human family as your own, and your condition as
space, fully separated from the human condition. Human beings one with everyone else. You are in the moment, engaged in the
were not really worthy of God, but religion, in its self-enlightened dismantling of the HMS, knowing that as you do this, you are
state, gave humans the concept of faith. By having faith, God will invoking the Sovereign Integral consciousness to manifest on
come down and save you from the human condition, provided, of Earth in a human instrument where there is complete and
course, that you have faith and apply His commandments. unconditional transparency and therefore expansion.
Ascension came along, not so much from religion, but rather Question 8 from Project Camelot:
spiritual-mystic sources, and posited that humans did not need to
be passive in the application of faith, but rather they could ascend Regarding the race of beings you consider yourself to be speaking
to the Source. In other words, instead of waiting for God to come for and a representative of, and here I must admit I consider
to you, you could go to God. Humans, under the proper tutelage myself as a member of this group, but for the sake of our viewers,
of masters could learn how to ascend and attain the Godhood, and please answer briefly if you would, the following for those who
become a master of their own, serving God and His universe as an may not know the WingMakers material:
emissary of the Light.
• What planet and/or time are they from?

Religion and spirituality really had the same idea, the only
• Do they have a physical presence here?
difference was that religion used passive faith while spirituality
• What is your own current mission here on Earth?
used active practices. The First Point of ascension is the yearning
for a Source outside the Self, hence division and disconnection. • Have they contacted or communicated with other humans as
Any First Point that begins in separation is pulled into the Human they have done yourself?
Mind System’s gravitational field and is lost in the deceptions
therein. Answer 8 from James: It has been almost exactly ten years since
the WingMakers.com website was first launched on the web. The
Thus, ascension is not an aspect of the Sovereign Integral state. first materials were designed to activate certain people to the
As written in my previous answer, you are here and always have Sovereign Integral consciousness. This consciousness cannot be
been and always will be. There is no where to go outside of contained in the historical contexts of soul, atma, spirit, or anima,
yourself to find yourself or God or Light or enlightenment or it needed to be redefined because the soul construct was part of
ascension. Look at it this way, if you are self-contained, if the the God, Spirit, Soul Complex (as defined in Question One), and
Sovereign Integral is indeed within you at all times, then where therefore was part of the Human Mind System.
exactly do you need to ascend? It is realization, not ascension.
And realization has, as its First Point, the unconditional oneness, Very few people realized this consciously. In effect, for the past
equality and truthfulness of Self in all life expressions. While ten years the Sovereign Integral was introduced tepidly and
ascension’s First Point is: I am not equal to my Source, my allowed to simmer on the back burner of the WingMakers and
Source is outside of me therefore I need to ascend to it in order to Lyricus websites. In this new era of transparency the Sovereign
become a greater being more worthy of love and light. Integral will be elevated to a new level of vividness and
accessibility.
Ascension is of the teacher-student ordering of the universe,
residing within HMS. It defines the subtle aspects of self- Those of us involved in the WingMakers and Lyricus are focused
deception that are caught-up in the spiritual belief systems of on introducing the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness and
Earth and the interdimensional planes as well. If you believe you providing support to those interested in realizing this
are in the process of ascending, ask yourself the questions: Where consciousness as their Self. We believe that the human family is
I am ascending to? How do I know that that endpoint is not of the programmed to believe what it is fed via the information and
Human Mind System? Are my mental pictures of ascension based knowledge systems of the world and that these systems stimulate
on my own experience or have they been downloaded from the and excite the Human Mind System ensuring that the individual
information and knowledge systems of humanity – in the other becomes lost in division and disconnection.
words, the unconscious domain?
In terms of where the WingMakers derive from, it is not
All of the energy, efforts, attention and learning that are placed on important. We are you and you are us. That is all. The manifested
the ascension process are a diversion from your own realization of world of Earth and humanity and all of Nature, is one layer of the
the Sovereign Integral. It is as if you have pursued a shadow in “Onion”. There is also an inter -dimensional domain that is
favor of the substance. The ascension pathway is ensconced in the composed of innumerable layers – and within these layers reside
comforts of gurus and masters – both physical and life forms within life forms within life forms. Its complexity and
interdimensional – that supposedly support your journey into the breadth is not translatable into human language.
Light and Love of God. Along this journey you see how it
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The beings that exist in the manifested, three-dimensional Somewhat related to Question 9, we have some evidence of a
universe are human and only human. The beings that exist within conflict currently going on between two factions of the
the other “layers” are interdimensional beings that are not Anunnaki... as well as between the Nordics and Greys/Reptilians;
manifested in the physical domain, but all of the beings, whether which includes the Illuminati and various governments that may
human/physical, or non-human / inter-dimensional are part of the have become aligned through treaties with either one side or the
Sovereign Integral consciousness. other... and the sovereignty of the Earth. Can you comment?
Now, I’m well aware that this disclosure, for many people, Answer 10 from James: Alignment is formed only within the
stretches their HMS to the point of discomfort and apprehension. Hidden Elite. The Hidden Elite is the Incunabula. The Elite
The HMS cannot grapple easily with these concepts as they are operate in the following general alignment: Incunabula > Banking
outside of its patterns of conception, but all you have to do is System > Illuminati > Secret Societies > World Government
practice the Quantum Pause, apply the Six Heart Virtues in your Leaders. The Incunabula control the banking system, and those
local universe, and observe through the eyes of the Sovereign that turn the “dials” are cleverly hidden. Down through time, the
Integral – the quantum presence that is deep within you, that has banking system is the force through which all other organizations
no programming, no agenda, no deception, no purpose. It is and objectives are controlled, attenuated, destroyed, or allowed to
simply itself: expressing oneness, equality and truthfulness thrive. It is the alpha power of the Collective System, and thus it
unconditionally in every breath. was important, if not necessary, for the Incunabula to remain
hidden.
The Incunabula was designed originally to prepare the human
If you have any information regarding the various differing domain for the return of Anu, the Anunnaki King who originally
agendas of the main races of beings that are monitoring, assisting, designed and co-created the human species. Part of the myth
interacting with, taking advantage of, or manipulating the surrounding the return of Christ was associated with this
situation here on Earth, please address this to the best of your expectation as it was whispered into the religious doctrine by
ability. those who knew of the true extent of the Second Coming.
Answer 9 from James: As you may have surmised in my However, Anu is not coming because the game has been changed
previous answer, the number of beings in existence is infinite, and within the dimensions. The original plan was that Anu would
yet, if you read carefully, I did say that humans are the only three- enter our world several years prior to 2012, which would provide
dimensionally manifested beings in the universe. Those beings him time to prepare his staff – the Incunabula – for the end of
that are non-human can operate within the three-dimensional time, or what has been referred to in the popular media as 2012.
manifest world, but generally their bodies are not well suited to The end of time was construed to be the end of the human
our density, and they will perish if they don’t return to their native programmed existence; the demise of the Human Mind System –
dimension. the crashing down of the prison walls that have deceived
humankind from realizing its true nature as Sovereign Integrals.
The agenda of those who are the prison guards is focused on one
thing: To conceal the view of the prison walls through directing The end of time will be very much like a strong wind that passes
the attention of the Human Mind System into entertainment over a calm sea and only those boats who have their sails unfurled
venues that stimulate their senses. Those who are susceptible to and are prepared will notice the effects of the wind. Others will be
this diversion go about their lives completely unaware that they so distracted, so fearful, that they do not even notice the wind, or,
are bumping into the prison walls in every moment of their life. if they do, it will not occur to them that it is unveiling a new
direction, a new shore, a new way of expressing life.
Those who have a different resonance, whose Wholeness
Navigator has been awakened and they are led by it, they are all Because the Elite are focused on the Money Power Grid, they see
about deepening their perceptions of the prison walls. They are the end of time as the end of their power. Amid this perception,
sensing the walls in their every waking moment. In doing this, they are scrambling for position, seeking to form new
they do not fear the walls, they do not fear the guards, and they do relationships that may enable their era to continue unimpeded, or
not fear those whom the guards serve. Their process of realization at least if the Money Power Grid will consolidate, they want to be
is sensing the prison walls in every breath so they can dismantle among the survivors. Thus, there is great infighting and posturing
them brick by brick. among the Elite.
The beings inside the prison are both human and There are many interpretations about the end of time, and, as I
interdimensional; the prison is of the physical and alluded in my previous comments, it will be quite different for
interdimensional worlds. It encompasses both. It is not as if those who are prepared compared to those who are infused with
humans are in the prison and then upon death they break out and the Human Mind System and are completely comfortable and
go directly to an enlightened state enjoying the fruits of heaven. identified with the prison it represents. For those, the end of time
No, the consciousness that you express in this world will will feel like the program has a virus or bug. It will feel like the
accompany you into the next dimension. A human is equally universe has glitched, and they are being sucked into the disorder.
capable of leaving the prison as an entity in the interdimensional It will be very frightening for some.
domain; remember equality and oneness is not a condition of
environment or vibratory domain. The Elite, and this includes their interdimensional allies, realize
the end result of the human program is an unknown. It is not
Question 10 from Project Camelot: understood. Its implication to the Money Power Grid, the lifeline
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that perpetuates their control, is uncertain, but they know change picture exists. It is time sensitive, so sometimes, unbeknownst to
is afoot and that this change is of a magnitude that will surpass the remote viewer, the subject is time shifted and the time shift
historical standards. can be thousands of years.
Question 11 from Project Camelot: Remote Viewers also can be influenced by more subtle
dimensional fields that are not physically manifest. Thus,
Please address the role of channeling vs. the information received sometimes their imagery is not of this world, though it seems of
by remote viewers and the role of prophecy in our movement into the physical, three-dimensional world, it is really of the astral or
the future. Please also address the role of Mayan, Hopi and other mental.
First Nation (e.g. Aboriginal) prophecies and how accurate or
pertinent they may be in revealing or informing the future. As for prophecy, the Mayans in particular, were very advanced
because they had specific priests that were offspring of human
Answer 11 from James: Channeling is a sub-component of the and Anunnaki genetic intermixing, and this allowed them to
God-Spirit-Soul Complex (GSSC), and therefore the Human understand the higher order mathematics of the Human Mind
Mind System. The origins of channeling arise from Anu’s attempt System. The HMS is a mathematical composite equation at its
to automate his persona into the human domain because he foundation level. I realize that this may not seem possible, and
realized that the access between the dimensions and the manifest your belief or disbelief is not important, all I will explain is that
environment of humanity would close. The GSSC was his for prophecy to work, predestination must be existent, and if
automation system that embodied his presence within the world of predestination exists, then mathematics would seem a likely
man. reason, would it not?
Channeling was originally the equivalent of demon possession In terms of prophecy there are only two themes of importance.
where interdimensional entities would temporarily infuse One prophecy relates to the Grand Portal (as it is known within
themselves within the human instrument and read a script WingMakers) and the other to the End of Time. The End of Time
prepared for them, usually an operative of the GSSC who was prophecy is attributed to the Mayan, but as I suggested earlier,
intent on bringing hope, love, truth, wisdom, and cosmological there was an Anunnaki influence to the prophecy that was due to
indoctrinations to humanity through the spiritual and, to a lesser the genetic intermixing of the two races, which is another story
extent, religious systems of the human family. altogether.
In more recent times channeling has become more automated, The End of Time prophecy was actually initiated in Atlantean
using pre-programmed scripts, voice tonalities, gestures, and times. There was an individual among the Atlantean leadership
accents which are implanted in the HMS of the individual that possessed a penetrating knowledge of prophecy, so much so,
channeler, and quite literally “broadcast” for later publication and that even Anu was aware of this being. I will call this individual
dissemination among those who have a resonance to GSSC and Cogniti, and it was he who was able to perceive, and, more
seek enlightenment therein. importantly, recall and articulate the prophecy of the End of
Time. This prophecy was described to Anu and it was the
galvanizing vision that caused Anu to seal Heaven from Earth.
The channeled materials, owning to their extensive crafting, were
cosmological wunderkinds that generated awe and near-instant
faith in their readers. Works like The Urantia Book, Cogniti’s prophecy was that there would be an individual in the
Conversations with God, Seth, Agartha, Alice Bailey, and far distant future that would open the Earth to the
countless others were all prepared texts for humanity, written by interdimensional planes. That Earth could not be sealed from the
dimensional entities under the direction of the GSSC and Heavens as it was this individual’s destiny to reclaim Heaven.
distributed for human consumption to ensure that humans Anu, was not pleased with this prophecy and it inspired him to
remained satiated with division and deception – though under the separate Humans from the interdimensional planes, and instead he
guise of spiritual and cosmological truth. created new worlds that were part of the HMS, residing as
programs within the HMS (God-Spirit-Soul Complex) that
included constructs of reincarnation, afterlife, and the astral,
If you carefully examine channeling you will see that it does not mental and soul planes.
mention the Sovereign Integral, the silence that is you. They
discuss the heavens, God, angelic beings, extraterrestrial
intelligences, the service orientation of ascended being, ascension The End of Time prophecy, as Cogniti described it, was a threat
process of soul, morality, practical living, alignment to God, life to Anu because if his creation – human beings – could access the
after death, and the complex teacher-student ordering of the dimensions, they would know they were programmed existences,
universe. It is all designed to instill separation and satisfy the veiled shadows of their true self. So it was this prophecy that
seeker that truth exists on the material plane, thus, they do not begat the GSSC and it became one of the most complex labyrinths
have to leave the prison to find it; they simply need to read or in Anu’s arsenal to enslave humanity.
listen with their mind.
The second prophecy was the Grand Portal, and this has to do
Remote viewing is tapping into the unconscious or unified field of with not only one individual discovering the portal into the
the Human Mind System. Within this field of consciousness dimensions of the Sovereign Integral, but all of humanity. This is
remote viewers can access the astral imprint of Earth or any other the return of humanity to its stature as the Sovereign Integral
planet or system in which the HMS extends – which is the entire liberated of the HMS, yet still manifest on Earth in a human
known physical universe. The astral imprint is like a reflection in instrument. In short, it is the transformation of the human
a grainy mirror. It lacks the texture and details, but the general
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instrument into a tool of expression for the Sovereign Integral First Source, and that this makes each of us responsible for the
state of con-sciousness. prison and the outflow of its dysfunctional events.
While the Hopis and many other indigenous cultures have How can one leave the body upon death and circulate in a realm
prophetic visions, the majority of these are programs within the of heaven that is beautiful and inspiring while their fellow
HMS, either well within the prison walls or are echoes of the two humans are left to suffer on Earth in the prison of their
main prophetic themes that resonate with the unconscious domain unsuspecting HMS? Some would say this is because of karma and
of the HMS I just described. that these poor beings incarnated to serve in this capacity. Even if
this were true, does this relinquish you from a responsibility to
Question 12 from Project Camelot: support and help your fellow humans? Remember we are all one.
We all exist in the Tone of Equality as sovereigns united as First
Source.
Our understanding is that Looking Glass and other ET related
time portal technology has a role in how the planet survives the
movement into the galactic plane. Is the effort mentioned by Dan What happens to one happens to all.
Burisch of Majestic to close the man-made stargates (in order to
avoid a potential catastrophe) an authentic effort - and will it When I speak of those who are lost in the prison without knowing
successfully assist the smooth transition of our planet through the it, I am not referring only to the downtrodden – those starving in
galactic plane? refugee camps, those with insurmountable health dilemmas or
those in abusive relationships (to name a few). No, I am referring
Answer 12 from James: The transition of the Earth is not to virtually all of humanity incarnated on Earth and those who
dependent whatsoever on any savior or technology. Bear in mind have moved on to the astral or mental planes and yet remain in the
that the human family, dimensional beings, Earth, Nature, and prison. If you are unrealized of Self as the Sovereign Integral, you
Universe are all unified in the Tone of Equality (as described in are somewhere within the prison, and though it is obvious, it must
the WingMakers philosophy). This equality is precisely why be said – this includes the prison guards and warden.
separation is not real. Anything that is of separation exists in
deception or the HMS. Now, the robotic force you refer to (the Animus in the
WingMakers mythology) is a symbolic representation of the dark
The Earth is conducting itself in this equality and that is all that is force. They are not real, in the sense that they represent a threat to
required. To comment on the stargates and other timespace humanity now or in the future.
manipulation technology only feeds the deception of separation. It
is a drama of the HMS. Those who have lifted their consciousness and deepened their
perceptions to the point where they can sense the Sovereign
Question 13 from Project Camelot: Integral and experience it – no matter how fleetingly – they are
the ones who must express this new state in truthfulness and
directness. It is the time of the Nunti-Sunya, which is the
The WingMakers saga emphasizes the discovery of what could be messenger of stillness or emptiness. This is the ancient, encoded
viewed as a chakra system on the planet and the activation as term for the End of Imprisonment. The “emptiness” is the
creating the necessary link-up that would result in a kundalini quantum presence or state in which the Sovereign Integral exists.
type effect that would move the Earth from the 3rd dimension into
the 5th dimension and therefore out of the path of Nibiru and any
potential for an invasion of an unwanted robotic race of beings. As I mentioned in a previous answer, Nibiru is no longer a threat
Is this still an accurate depiction of what needs to happen in order to Earth. Our threat is the Human Mind System and its self-
to avoid cataclysm and/or invasion? perpetuating nature.
Answer 13 from James: Your interpretation is an interesting one, Question 14 from Project Camelot:
but is not accurate to the intent. Firstly, one of the seven
WingMakers sites are situated on each continent, not We have testimony that says that the Anunnaki are here, working
representative of a chakra system, but rather the realm of the with present-day governments and on our base on Mars. Do you
symbolic that is hidden in every culture. The WingMakers agree? Is Nibiru a planetoid containing the negatively-oriented
mythology is a bridge from the Sovereign Integral to the Human side of the Anunnaki and which is headed our way?
Mind System, and it is designed to awaken this interest by
releasing the masks of the HMS in favor of the identity of the Answer 14 from James: I agree that the Anunnaki are here, but
Sovereign Integral. It is a preparation process that is different for they are not the threat. As I have previously stated, the real threat
every individual, but every individual in the human instrument is is people’s indifference to re-referencing their world from the
imprisoned within the HMS to varying degrees. HMS to the Sovereign Integral. The Elite, at all levels, direct the
attention of humanity on those efforts that build the world
I have always said that the WingMakers Materials are encoded, according to their needs. The New World Order exists now, and
and that these encodings are designed to prepare the individual to the Anunnaki and their placements are well in control of it.
awaken to the deeper structures (outer prison walls) and help the Regardless of what name you give it, the world is indeed
individual ease their way into the new territory of the Sovereign undergoing a new order, and there are those within the Elite who
Integral. The Sovereign Integral is not a realm of eternal ease, are assessing the masses’ awareness of these changes and their
beauty, freedom, painlessness, and ultra creature comforts. reactions to it.
Rather, it is an awareness of how we are all one and equal with
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In order to ensure that the rebellion within the masses of humanity them, follow them into the next dimension, and encase them until
is manageable, the Elite use the entertainment, media, religion, they forgive and are forgiven.
government, and education systems to de-sensitize humanity to
the real issues, keeping their attentions on the trivial and This forgiveness is not a Biblical expression or religious platitude;
unimportant, all the while monitoring their reactions to being it is the nature of the Sovereign Integral to remain inaccessible
monitored. until the individual in the human expression (HMS) rises up
within themselves and announces to their local universe: NO
You can argue that this is paranoia, or you can argue that people MORE! No more will I be part of this deception. No more will I
are naïve and easily manipulated. If you choose either side you contribute my energy to the works of deception. No more will I
have activated your Polarity System. Congratulations. The issue is stand idle while others suffer. No more will I shake in my self
whether you resonate with the construct of the Human Mind doubt and allow those in power to decide my fate. No longer will
System or the Sovereign Integral. If it is the latter, then allow I be sucked into the distractions of the Elite. No longer will I
your resonance to guide you, and, in an informal way, release reserve my activism for a future time… the time is NOW.
your attention from those elements that reflect or constitute the
HMS. If you do this – not only in words but deeds – you will see a space
open up in your life; a sort of emptiness and stillness that lacks
Question 15 from Project Camelot: human embroidery or definition. This is the place in which you
can stand-up and radiate the oneness, equality and truthfulness of
What do you know about the bases on the moon and Mars and the the Sovereign Integral. This is the activism that will change the
various races (including humans) with bases there? world. It will not be the organizations, the sects, or the militias
that bring change. They cannot stand up to the Elite. Only the
Self, the Sovereign Integral, operating in harmony with
Answer 15 from James: I apologize for sounding like a broken Earth/Nature can stand-up to the Elite and usher in the era of
record that repeats itself, however, while I can answer your transparency and expansion.
question in the affirmative that there are bases on the moon (and
other planets in our solar system), many of these bases are not
manifest in our human dimension. In other words, a human could When you voice the genuine and sober self-assessment in all of its
be standing in front of these bases and not sense them whatsoever. textures and subtlety, you are inviting the new behaviors of the
This phenomenon is similar to the orbs that people photograph Sovereign Integral. These are all signs of authentic forgiveness;
but don’t see with their human eyes. Similarly, the UFOs that are they are not the sanctimonious, over emotionalized capitulations
witnessed on cameras but are not observed with human eyes. of a guilt-ridden follower who intones the ritual of forgiveness
like a machine. In apathy, blindness, or utter devotion to the
Money Power Grid, it is all the same relative to accessing the
The vast majority of extraterrestrial craft are only visible for short Sovereign Integral state. You will be shut out. Forgiveness is the
periods of time (if at all) because of the gravitational system on active formula of self-assessment of your present situation and the
Earth “pulls” their crafts into our dimension, making them visible application of new behaviors that are in resonance with the
to our senses. On the moon, these gravitational fields are not a Sovereign Integral.
factor.
Look upon your life every moment and see if you are operating in
The bases were developed by other races, mostly the Anunnaki, the HMS or are quietly going about the business of cutting the
as observation and storage sites. threads that bind you. If you feel your behaviors reflect a state of
oneness, equality and truthfulness, then you are in resonance with
Question 16 from Project Camelot: the Sovereign Integral.
What do you know about how successful the Powers-that-Be will Question 17 from Project Camelot:
be in surviving a pole shift or cataclysm in the underground bases
that they have built for this purpose? Would you consider yourself to be a time traveler, having
returned in order to help guide the planet through this transition?
Answer 16 from James: The underground bases that exist are not Would you view any other great teachers or world figures from
immune to the changes. If Earth/Nature wants all of humanity to this perspective?
feel this compression of the quantum worlds with the manifest
worlds, there will be no place to avoid it. Earthquakes and floods, Answer 17 from James: Like everyone else embodied in a
to take two examples, can damage underground installations as human instrument, living in these times, I am both my sovereign
well if not better than they can damage above ground. Those who Self and I am First Source. I am more aware of this state than
believe they can manipulate Earth/Nature without consequence some, but this is the only difference. I am one of those who has
will learn otherwise. been exposed to life outside the prison, and I have returned not
with descriptions of the “other side” but with encoded works,
To be clear, I am not suggesting that terrible Earth/Nature techniques, and behavioral systems that can help people form
changes are imminent or unavoidable, rather, I am saying that no alignments with their preternatural Self, and move into the new
one will be immune from their effects when they occur because era of transparency and expansion with greater ease.
we are one and equal to all in existence. There are those within
the Elite that believe they have immunity, but they are so lost Question 18 from Project Camelot:
within their HMS programs that they are deluded and
brainwashed into believing their actions will not rebound upon
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Our philosophy is that hiding in plain sight is wisest... or, in other occur for each of you is a thing best left in the mystery. You will
words, the best place to hide is out in the open. You have chosen not know when it will arrive, but in the new era, the conditions
to remain hidden and largely anonymous. Would you explain the are favorable and the process is quickening with preparations like
philosophy that lies behind this, your experience with the Powers Quantum Pause.
that Be and their surveillance of you and your work and what
circumstances or conditions might motivate you into coming Please be patient with your process. Within Lyricus we call this
forward in person in the future? process The Origin Point because when it occurs you experience
yourself outside of the Human Mind System and you feel your
Answer 18 from James: My anonymity is not an expression of Self has returned to its origin, but of course it has never left, it
hiding from the Powers that Be. I am an infinite being just as you only feels like a return when you are transitioning from the
and everyone else. My reason for anonymity is due to my desire Human Mind System to the Sovereign Integral, and this sense of
to let the works stand on their own, without the handiwork of return only lasts a split second until the truth is fully recovered.
personality or image, as I am not an image or personality.
Besides, the Powers that Be know who I am and how to find me if For those of you who have followed the works of
they are ever inclined to do so. WingMakers.com, Lyricus.org and EventTemples.org, you may
be wondering why my answers are so direct and come from a
My role, as single-pointed as it may seem, is to re-introduce the different geometry than my previous works. There are several
Sovereign Integral to humanity. It is an encoded word concept reasons: one is that we are in a new time, the era of transparency
that has many, many layers to it. Some people will immediately and expansion is underway and it is colliding with the Elite
resonate with the concept it contains, not really knowing why or agenda. Another reason is that the questions that Kerry and Bill
what the word means. While it was introduced ten years ago have asked have never been asked of me in a public forum before,
through the WingMakers.com website, it was only disclosed at a so you are hearing about some of this material for the first time as
certain level. Now, through this communication, and those that a result. And finally, as part of my personal undertaking to reveal
will follow, a new layer of its meaning has been revealed. the next level of the Sovereign Integral, it is necessary to strip off
some of the rounded edges of the bridging that was invested in the
The Sovereign Integral is the transparent Being of expansion, original version of the concept.
uniquely fit for the era in which we have begun to enter. It is the
portal through which the individual can experience First Source in Each of you must ask yourself the questions: Who would I be if
unconditional oneness, equality and truthfulness. It is not the soul masters, or God, or Light, or an extraterrestrial savior did not
or spirit. It is not God. It is not affiliated with the God-Spirit-Soul exist? What would I do if I was all of these in my world? It is
Complex. It is outside of this construct of the Human Mind time to take responsibility for your self. To rise up and embody
System. And this is precisely why it can be a challenge to the oneness, equality and truthfulness of who you are, because
understand what the Sovereign Integral is, and why it requires you cannot stand behind a Supreme Being or Master and truly
significant preparation to experience its incomparable qualities express the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness.
and dimensional expressions.
The bottom line is that all of this empire of deception, what I have
The Sovereign Integral is outside of the prison, and yet it does, been referring to as a prison, had to be created in order to enslave
due to its infinite nature, encompass the prison. As an humans without them knowing they were enslaved. And all of the
encompassing element of the human body it is as near as your work that has been done since Anu’s first enslavement of
breath, circulating within your human instrument, yet it remains humanity has been deception because humans would never have
in its own quantum existence in emptiness and stillness. I know gone along without it being this way, and Anu and the Elite knew
that the description of emptiness seems unfulfilling, and to some, this as a certainty. First Source is re-activating itself within the
a bit frightful, but the emptiness I speak of is simply that it is human family, you can have the condition of forgetfulness, but it
empty of illusion – the deceptions and separations of the Human is not forgetting. You have not forgotten.
Mind System.
Nunti-Sunya.
In closing, since this was your last question, I want to add that I
realize my answers to this set of questions may cause a sense of From my heart to yours,
being lost in some people – perhaps not at first, but over the days
and weeks ahead, you might come to this place in your process. I
want to assure you that this is normal. This feeling of being lost is James
a consequence of letting go of the things that bind you to your
Human Mind System, and anything that cuts these threads that _______
bind you, that asserts that your extensive, multi-lifetime beliefs
have been based on programs of deception, is a very hard thing to • Additional questions sent to James by Kerry Cassidy
accept without a sense of loss or a feeling of being lost.
James,
All I can tell you is that for some of you, when you feel you have
gone astray – uneasy in your every thought and feeling – you are
the closest to being found. Let this recognition comfort you. The First of all I want to thank you for the wonderful answers you
realizations of the Sovereign Integral come in waves for most have provided to the complex set of questions we provided.
people, they are like layers being peeled, one at a time, that
gradually allow the full realization, and when this realization may
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I hope you don't mind if I ask you a few clarifying questions that
go directly to an issue that is currently at the 'door' of our Project The impulse to be a Creator-God was a facet of Anu’s supremely
Camelot and will affect the way we move forward into the future. gifted mind, which was an outgrowth of his genetic encoding, as
he was able to conceive of this out of the requirement to save his
I understand that free of the HMS we are Sovereign Integrals, race and civilization. It was out of the cauldron of this necessity
gods of our local multi-verse and First Source. And that the GSSC that he began to envision creating a race of laborers upon Earth.
is what anchors us to the HMS... It was only tens of thousands of years after the Anunnaki’s initial
experiments in human genetics, when the human race was well
underway, that the human expression began to become one of the
Whereas, the GSSC does not lead to true recognition of this truth, key obsessions of other interdimensional races.
you also have stated in the WingMakers material that the
WingMakers are representatives of the Central Race and the This obsession created the various mythologies of
Central Race were/are what is also referred to as the Elohim or extraterrestrials that lived on other planets just like humans and
creators of our galaxy and all life (the genetic caretakers of the of used spacecraft to visit Earth – some benevolent, some not so
the Universe), is how you put it in a segment of the WingMakers kindly. However, as I mentioned earlier, the human race is truly
material. the only life form of its kind in the entire universe, in terms of its
level of density and manifested physicality, and this is due to
With this in mind, Anu, and the Anunnaki must therefore be part Anu’s experimentation in designing human instruments that
of the WingMakers. Yet, as you say, Anu was able to 'seduce' the could be enslaved by the Human Mind System.
interdimensional Atlanteans to take human bodies and therefore
become imprisoned by HMS and into a recurring cycle from Anu was a master of observation. He understood the essence of
which there is no escape save, by recognizing one's true nature i.e. beings, and with this understanding, he used it to manipulate. He
as a sovereign integral and therefore First Source. knew that all beings, at their core essence, were encoded to serve.
There is this natural infusion within the Sovereign Integral to
Given this dilemma, one might ask: serve the oneness of all beings, however, as Anu realized, this
inborn aspiration to serve, was also a weakness that could be
exploited – exploited in the sense that beings can be manipulated
Question 19 from Project Camelot: into suppression without them knowing it.
Who was Anu, and what was his purpose, and why? The mythology of gold, being the purpose in which Anu
manifested this entire system of creation, is only the surface
Answer 19 from James: Anu ascended to kinghood of the motive. It was a much broader agenda that Anu aspired to: it was
Anunnaki as a result of his superior resourcefulness and being God to all beings – interdimensional and dimensional
manipulative mind, which launched him into “Savior” standing (human) – and seizing the power to control the fate of a planet,
of his race, which he came to see as his natural birthright race, group, or individual that is bestowed to the one who created
throughout the dimensions of his creation. By nearly all human the system. Anu believed, or perhaps, rationalized, that he merely
definition, Anu is God. provided human and interdimensional beings with a fulfillment to
serve God.
Anu’s purpose is multi-faceted and problematic to pin down
because it really depends on which timespace coordinates you In response to your question, why did Anu do this? It was simply
make your assessments from. In one coordinate, you can say that power, but not power as we might think of it in relation to a
his relative genius provided him a measure of Godhood, and yet, corporate CEO or president of a country, no, this was a power
in a different coordinate, you could say he was Satan, and the that was far-reaching and included entire races and planets, but
truth is, he is both, again, by human definition. even that was not the reason. The motivation was more subtle: it
was to enslave the Sovereign Integral consciousness, knowing
Among the interdimensional planes of existence, where entities that it was more powerful, more intelligent, and more aware than
or beings exist as individual expressions of First Source, there are even Anu. This was the true motive of Anu – to control that
races of beings that exist in different vibrational densities. There which was greater than he. It is a power inconceivable in our
are numerous different races and just as in Nature, there is a human domain, and once this power was achieved, it created a
natural selection process that determines which species will attain desire for more power, and therefore, more sophisticated systems
a dominant position among the various races. The Anunnaki are of control.
the race of beings that rose to prominence within the
interdimensional planes and it was their king, Anu, who foresaw It is these systems of control, “stacked” one on top of another,
the process that would catapult himself into Godhood. This story that ultimately slowed down the perception of time, and, in a
is told a hundred different ways in various mythologies, but Anu sense, enabled Anu to operate in an entirely different time. This
is worshipped as God upon this planet by those who are sincere, difference in time enabled him to move ahead of other races and
and yet unaware of the origin of the God concept. control the outflow of events like a cosmic puppet-master. Other
races were then disadvantaged as they were the recipients of
Anu’s purpose, as it pertains to humanity, was to create a events and not the creators thereof. They were behind the
physically manifested race of beings that he could control. It was creation-flow always struggling to keep up, to figure it out, while,
his creation impulse that led him to pursue Godhood and to be in a sense, Anu was a thousand miles ahead, calculating his
worshipped by his creation, but he knew that this could only moves that other races would encounter in a completely different
transpire if he were able to enslave the true nature of humanity time.
within a human instrument that was fitted with the Human Mind
System and its various sub-systems. Question 20 from Project Camelot:
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First Source, as this information would not be transmittable in

If the WingMakers are the Central Race and the Central Race are words or images. Whenever you see words and images, you must
the creator gods or Elohim, then is the RA Material and know that they arise from within the HMS, and, yes, that includes
subsequent channelings of, for example, Wynn Free and others these words.
who say they are channeling the Elohim, deluded as part of the
GSSC or are they indeed channeling the WingMakers or First Those who try to build bridges from the HMS to the Sovereign
Source? Integral state have no choice but to use words, sounds,
techniques, technologies, and images to inspire human beings to
Answer 20 from James: Let me answer your question with an embrace this new era of transparency and expansion. Because
analogue. Let’s say I brought you into a room that was these “bridges” express with the tools of the HMS, even when
completely dark – not a single photon existed in this room, but I they try to reveal the “deeper objects in the room,” they are only
was aware that there was a dial inside the room and I knew, from able to reveal the general shape and outline. This is all part of the
experience, where it was. As I turned the dial, it emitted photons transition process, but as I have always said, be prepared to
of light from a point source into the room focused with a jettison your beliefs – see them as disposable – for they are not
precision I controlled. If I turned the dial up the number of appendages of the Sovereign Integral, because beliefs are from
photons increased to such an extent that you would begin to see the mind and only of the mind.
objects in the room, very dimly at first, but nevertheless, you
would see that the room was not a black void, but rather, Question 21 from Project Camelot:
consisted of objects that were present in the room, even though
you didn’t yet know what the objects were. Although you say that there is no ascension in the traditionally
understood sense of the term, however, you do say we are
Now, if I focused the photon emitter to a specific object, and moving into an era of transparency and expansion where the
turned up the dial high enough, you would see that it was the forces of the Collective System are failing... and where Sovereign
human soul. If I turned the dial up even further and diffused the Integral consciousness is more accessible.
photons in a wider pattern, you would see the God-Spirit
complex infusing the human soul like a circulatory system. If I What is causing this change in the era... where we have, as you
continued to turn the dial up, releasing more photons into the say, reached the top of the pyramid of manifested life? In a sense,
room, you would see that there were objects, far in the distant if the HMS is a labyrinth or matrix of deception that extends
background, behind the God-Spirit-Soul Complex, and yet these throughout the known Universe or multiverse..., which might also
objects were even more dimly illuminated and mysterious in their be called a Game, then in essence self-realization of our true
expressions. nature as a Sovereign Integral or First Source, is stepping outside
the game/matrix results in game over or oneness?
The objects that stand behind, so dimly lit as to remain unknown,
are the Sovereign Integral and its collective expression: First Answer 21 from James: Ascension is not an individual process
Source. The God-Spirit-Soul Complex (GSSC) exists in this because the individual is not separate from its core essence, nor
room, and is the first object to be illuminated by the light. In the does it require an intermediary to reacquaint it with this essence,
faint light of a few thousand photons, the GSSC becomes subject what I’ve been referring to throughout this interview as the
to interpretation by thousands, if not millions, of spiritual Sovereign Integral. What the individual truly requires is to
explorers. No one sees it clearly enough to define it definitively, become disentangled from the artifice of the Human Mind
and therefore the interpretations persist from one era to the next. System, and all this requires is the evolving awareness that is
born and sustained during the Quantum Pause, or its equivalent.
If I turned the photon emitter to the objects in the distance, and
turned up the dial, the viewer would now perceive that the The cause behind the era of transparency and expansion is multi-
Sovereign Integral is unconnected to the God-Spirit-Soul faceted, but let me speak to its purpose before I suggest its cause,
Complex, and that the GSSC is something that actually as they are always related. The purpose of this new era is the
suppresses or obscures the view of the Sovereign Integral. It is transfer of knowledge, relative to the Sovereign Integral, so that
impossible to turn the light on the Sovereign Integral without also humanity can begin living – through authentic self-expression –
illuminating its suppression by the GSSC, but this does not mean the behaviors of the Sovereign Integral here on Earth. In other
that those who transmit the GSSC are deluded or insincere. It words, the deceptions that have persisted in this world, the
only means that in the deeper reality of the Sovereign Integral, systems of cover-up, will be gradually dissolved, and as this
the GSSC is revealed to be a form of suppression and it is not macro-process unfolds in parallel with the individual knowledge
connected in any substantive way to either the Sovereign Integral transfer, First Source may inhabit the dimensional worlds for the
or First Source. First Time.
Bridges are being built from the GSSC to the Sovereign Integral This has been referred to in various spiritual texts as “Heaven on
because there are individuals that are aware of the Sovereign Earth”. In Lyricus we refer to this as the Grand Portal, but while
Integral state at an unconscious level, and they are constructing the precise meaning may be different, the general event is the
bridges from the GSSC to this deeper reality unaware as to the same.
ultimate destination of their bridge.
Now, as to its cause, the era of transparency and expansion is an
Now, to your specific question. Those who are channeling are not outgrowth of the Sovereign Integral’s natural presence;
conscious of the specific source from which their information benevolent interdimensional Beings; the transformation of
arises. Channeling is a Human Mind System insert and its Earth/Nature in terms of timespace; and the portal into the
original source may be unknown, undisclosed, or falsely interdimensional realms which has been opening up in the past
attributed. It is not from the Sovereign Integral state nor that of ten years. Let me take these one at a time.
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human influence upon its domains, and this influence has

The Sovereign Integral exists here and now, an infinite Being stimulated its defenses or strategies of continued existence. It is
hidden in what some would call the finite human body-mind perhaps hard to comprehend that Earth/Nature is aware of the
system or human instrument. Within this presence, the Quantum Human Mind System when we ourselves remain largely ignorant
Presence, there is a quantum-level connection between all life of our condition, but it is true. Earth/Nature realizes that
expressions, and it is through this connection that transformation humanity must awaken to its true essence, or Earth/Nature will be
– of the whole – is possible. As more individual expressions align destined to live enslaved to those who are themselves enslaved.
to First Source, and dedicate their self-expression as an outflow
from the Sovereign Integral, this new awareness and capability Relative to the portals that were opened between the human
transfers to all life. In other words, the Quantum Presence dimension and that of the interdimensional realms, this occurred,
transmits, and as it transmits, it transforms the whole. To be sure, for the first time, in 1998. These portals were revelatory
this is a process and takes eons of time, but it is now reaching a examples of how Anu had deceived virtually all beings through
critical mass within Earth, Nature and humanity. the creation of intermediary domains that were designed
programs, within programs, within programs, for the purpose of
Analogous to this is the use of the Genetic Manipulation System positioning Anu as God of all.
(GMS) by other interdimensional entities who, unlike Anu, have
a benevolent purpose. Remember, I stated earlier in the interview There are all of these accounts in the historical record of
that the GMS is an open system, and it was for this reason that individuals traveling into the Heavens and meeting with the
other interdimensional beings were so interested in humanity. angels and masters. These accounts are so numerous as to make it
Those beings referred to as the Greys are, but one example. seem as if it were almost common. It is not. Before the portals
Within the known multiverse, the human instrument is unique, were opened in 1998, those who were traveling into the Heavens
and it is for this reason that other races have such an obsession were interacting with realms of the mind and/or astral domains.
with its qualities and capabilities. The era of transparency and expansion began in 1998 and it will
continue indefinitely into the vast future that awaits humanity and
These interdimensional races use spaceships as the means its interdimensional allies.
through which they cross vibrational domains. In other words, it
is not space they are traversing, as we think of space; rather, it is Question 22 from Project Camelot:
negotiating vibrational densities for which they use their
spaceships. If they stay for extended periods in our vibrational In a sense, is not this concept nothing more than enlightenment as
domain, they will manifest and become visible to our senses, and it is more traditionally called Direct realization of our godhead or
if they are manifested for extended periods of time, they will be divinity is a concept well known within Eastern philosophy... as
unable to return to their dimension. This is due to our is recognition that we are, always have been and always will be…
gravitational fields and the subtle differences between the two God or First Source.
domains of existence.
Answer 22 from James: Anu encoded within the human being a
Some of these interdimensional beings, those who have become desire to search for enlightenment, and at the same time, he
materialized, have moved into underground bases, or, in some created the God-Spirit-Soul Complex to partially satisfy the
instances, have transformed their physical bodies to allow them search. I say “partially” because for most people the search
to integrate reasonably well into human society. begins down one path, but then moves to another, and another,
and another. Over the course of a lifetime, the average person has
Curiosity in the human condition is the principle reason that searched through dozens of religious, scientific, occult, and
UFOs and extraterrestrial influence and interaction exist. spiritual paths, and yet their search continues. This is because the
Humanity has been examined and investigated like no other program that is encoded into human beings and reinforced by the
specie, and while Anu was very clear that other races could HMS, stimulates the search for God-Spirit-Soul outside of the
investigate, they were not to influence. However, there were individual, even when the teaching represented declares that the
certain beings that were not beholden to Anu, and operated “Kingdom of Heaven is within.”
independently of the Anunnaki and their allies, and here I am
referring directly to the WingMakers. If you were the creator of humanity, and you wanted to keep
secret the one thing that would answer all questions pertaining to
The GMS is connected to the unconscious region of the Human the Self, making any search for truth obsolete, where would you
Mind System. Thus, if a modification vis-à-vis the GMS is made hide this amazing secret? If you were wise, you would place it
in a fractional percentage of humans, it is transferred to the right in front of everyone, but also place within your creation the
human family through the unconscious or Genetic Mind. The insatiable desire to search for truth in books, lectures, spiritual
story of how the WingMakers utilized the GMS to open portals savants, saints, prophets, sages, spiritual techniques, shamans,
between the human domain and the interdimensional domains witches, ancient texts, churches, synagogues, mosques, ashrams,
would require more time to explain than I have in the context of websites, and a hundred other places. That is how to hide the
this interview, but let me just say that the WingMakers attuned answer to everything from everyone, and this is precisely what
some of the implants within the GMS to enable certain Anu did.
individuals of the human family to re-conceptualize, and in some
instances, experience, the human soul liberated of the GSSC The Eastern concept of Direct-Realization or Self-Realization or
imprints. God-Realization is part of the bridgework I mentioned earlier in
question 20, but it is, with few exceptions, still connected into the
Earth/Nature is undergoing its own transformation, stimulated by realization of the God-Spirit-Soul Complex through the mind.
its resonance with new spatial energies and its own awakening as There are some, who have glimpsed the Sovereign Integral state,
a result of the human condition. Earth/Nature is well aware of the but it is a very small percentage, and to some degree, this meager
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percentage is due to the monetization of the spiritual hierarchy of The fuel of our HMS is anger, greed, disappointment, irritability,
the Eastern paths and their propensity for separation via their blame, fear, resentment, and other so-called negative emotions,
teacher-student ordering. caused in large measure because of our lack of understanding that
we are all one and equal, and that that truth is the basis of life.
Those who have access to the Sovereign Integral state, can repeat Those who have ventured into the clear waters of the Sovereign
their accessibility at will. They have access to the Integral have a responsibility to share the process of stripping
interdimensional realms outside of the HMS and its tributary away the masks and deceptions, living in the world, but not being
systems of suppression, they understand how to fuel this access of it, and this means that they do not participate in the deceptions
to the Sovereign Integral state, and, conversely, how to starve the of the HMS.
suppression framework. These are an exceedingly small number
of human beings. This process is as simple as practicing the Quantum Pause, the
Six Heart Virtues and persisting until your last breath. There is no
If you read Cosmic Consciousness by Richard Maurice Bucke, he one to pay for this. There is no master or teacher. There is no
provides an accounting of some of our greatest spiritual explorers school or rank of proficiency. There is no book to read or lecture
throughout history, detailing how they were imbued with a to listen to. It is simple and easy. If you resonate with this
mysterious, non-physical light and a clear sense of union with all approach, you can try it and see if it feels natural to you. There
life. In virtually every case, the experience of cosmic will be no one judging you if you decide not to pursue it to your
consciousness was a sudden, inexplicable and profound feeling of last breath… other than yourself.
oneness with the universe, a feeling that lasted for many days and
positively affected them the remainder of their life. Most of those Question 23 from Project Camelot:
who experienced this cosmic consciousness felt that they had
become a “channel” of this energy through their writing, art, and In what way, is awareness of oneself as a Sovereign Integral any
life’s work. different from the self-realization attained through meditation and
awakening of kundalini? And, considering the breathing
But these events are not repeatable, the experiencer is not able to technique you are referencing in your material, is this not the
slip into the heavenly domain at will, nor do they have clear same as any other technique which stimulates the rise of
knowledge of what is real and what remains a deception. This is kundalini, linking of the chakras and eventually, enlightenment?
no fault of these forerunners of humanity, but I am merely
making the point that it is a different experience, and from my Answer 23 from James: As you may have already surmised
perspective, it is an experience within the HMS. from my previous answers, the Sovereign Integral is the re-
conceptualized expression of the human soul during the era of
First Source is not God, not as human beings understand what transparency and expansion. This era will be anchored in the
God is. God, as an entity, independent of you or me, does not experience of the Grand Portal, which is the consciousness of
exist – though there have been those (i.e., Anu) who believed First Source – Sovereign Integrals unified and self aware – living
themselves to be God and masqueraded as one. First Source is the upon Earth. This is the era whose shoreline we have just touched,
collective of Sovereign Integrals throughout the multiverse, and and those tools, techniques, mental models, and methods of the
that which binds them is Source Intelligence. The entire GSSC, previous age, well, they are not relevant, just as the abacus is not
as conceived by Anu, was modeled on this reality: relevant in the age of computers.
God = First Source Yes, I’m aware that I’m being very direct here, but it is time to be
direct and truthful without over care to consequences and how
Spirit = Source Intelligence people may respond. Look at it this way, and I am not picking on
Eastern spirituality, but you asked the question about kundalini
Soul = Sovereign Integral and so I’ll respond accordingly, but what I am saying applies to
all of the traditional methods and mental models regardless of
But these concepts are not the same. If one says, “I am self- their cultural roots.
realized and therefore enlightened,” are they enlightened of the
GSSC? Or, are they an experiencer of the Sovereign Integral state Kundalini is a complex system of energy manipulation within the
of consciousness beyond the HMS? If it is the latter, you will not human instrument culminating in enlightenment of the mind. It is
find them on book tours, giving lectures, establishing schools or a system of ascension where a teacher who knows how to
ashrams, speaking in the lecture circuits, creating a spiritual path, activate the kundalini helps the student orchestrate their chakra or
healing for money, profiteering from their experience, or energy system. Well, what is energy? In the dimensions of the
claiming they have special powers that others lack. Sovereign Integral there is no energy. There is no fluctuation of
energy. There is no yin-yang of energy. Energy is a concept of
Anu wanted to ensure that spiritual and religious seekers would the mind. So those who spend endless hours working with
be caught up in the heavens of his creation. This is why the energy, where has it taken you?
search outside oneself is so powerfully encoded, why we feel this
separation of body and soul, and soul and God; why we cling so Energy exists in the HMS. It is real in the physical world. It is
tenaciously to the diluted and disempowered versions of First indisputably a part of the human instrument, and yet, the
Source, Source Intelligence, and Sovereign Integral found in the Sovereign Integral is constant, aware, awake, observant, alive,
God-Spirit-Soul Complex; why our thoughts and prayers, so infinite, and, as odd as it may seem, it is not energy. It is not of
filled with hope, speak to a mask of First Source that is not one energy. It does not require energy. It is not existent because of
and equal with ourselves. energy. Before there was energy there was the Sovereign
Integral. Before there was a Human Mind System, there was the
Sovereign Integral.
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ons, alterations, and new techniques, and I would encourage

You might say, “Okay, but doesn’t the practice of kundalini (or people to do this.
any other legitimate ascension practice) accelerate my ability to
understand the Sovereign Integral?” And my answer would be a One last comment on the application of Quantum Pause, the big
qualified, “yes,” but only to the degree you are willing to release “wow” experience is not the fish you are trying to catch. You are
what you have learned and establish a new First Point that not trying to attract anything to you; you are not trying to learn
doesn’t include separation or complexity. Once you have new information or become more knowledgeable; you are not
invested yourself in a proficiency rank, accrued your expertise, trying to move energy around in your body; you are not trying to
are proceeding to become a teacher, you are in danger of being leave your body; and you are not trying to commune with your
attached to the irrelevant and obsolete, and these can become like higher self or God. Your purpose, in applying Quantum Pause, is
vines that cling to you and constrict your flexibility of movement to pull down the walls that separate you from that state of
to the new era in which we now move and have Our Being. consciousness that you are, and will always be, and have always
been.
Let me be clear, for those who believe that a master can
pronounce special words to them, as in the case of Deeksha Quantum Pause is designed to align you with the transparency
(related to kundalini), and by these very words, cause them to be and expansion of this era of which we are all a part.
magnetically drawn to enlightenment, they are deluded. If
someone believes they are enlightened by reading any book, they Question 24 from Project Camelot:
are deluded. If someone believes they can repeat a mantra and
they are enlightened, they are deluded. You say that the enlightenment of the past, embodied in
experiences of Samadhi and such by great teachers such as
I am not trying to be confrontational here, but the simple facts are Christ, Buddha and others did not actually take them into true
that billions of people on this planet are deluded in their practice contact with their true nature, outside the HMS, and therefore
of spirituality, the occult, religion, and yes, even science. They they did not escape the prison of the HMS, and they did not
practice what they believe will move them closer to truth, when experience this state of direct knowing of ones true nature as a
they themselves are truth, and their practice only creates thicker god or First Source...
walls between awareness and truth. The era of transparency and
expansion is all about bringing walls down. It is not about the Therefore, who was the member of the human family who did
absorption of more knowledge and information. attain this realization?
Quantum Pause is not related to kundalini or the belief system Answer 24 from James: The spiritual masters who have become
that surrounds it. In homage to Gertrude Stein, one could say that the symbolic leaders of religious institutions like Christianity and
a breath technique, is a breath technique, is a breath technique, Buddhism, to name two, are among the forerunners of humanity.
but that has not been my experience. While Quantum Pause is They were the spiritual explorers and activists of their time and
indeed a breath technique at its core, it is also a method to leave culture, and were, and are, deeply committed to the spiritual life,
the human instrument and experience the Sovereign Integral state infusing humanity with their hard-earned wisdom. In their era,
of consciousness. This is because breath is the highway or portal they came to the outer walls of the prison (the Human Mind
out of the human instrument, if done with the appropriate First System) by breaking through many of the previous fortifications
Point. and distractions that held their fellow man.
Remember that the astral and mind domains are within the human They had the conviction of their destiny, their blueprint, and they
instrument, so we are not interested in journeying there since they were exemplars of their time. Their motives were pure and they
remain inside the Human Mind System, and are thus illusory and brought new perspective to the human condition that enabled a
misleading. Quantum Pause is a method or process of quickening in the direction of the Sovereign Integral. But the
disentangling from the Human Mind System, realizing that your distance between human beings in the era of Jesus and Buddha,
self-definitions and identifications with culture, family, religion, and the experience of the Sovereign Integral were
spirituality, material possessions, money, and purpose, have been insurmountable. The human instrument was not prepared for this
programmed and are not really who you are. interaction and experience. However, the direction could be
established, the head trail could be set forth, and a crude map
This is a difficult path for many people to accept, but this is what developed for later generations of spiritual explorers.
Quantum Pause is designed to achieve. It is the breath, enabled
through Nature, that is life-giving to the human instrument, and it Remember, we are all facets of the human experience, and return
is the human instrument that is life-giving to the Sovereign lifetime after lifetime, renewing our indoctrination in the Human
Integral within the manifested physical reality of Earth. Thus, Mind System, but simultaneously, one or more of our kind,
breath is the link, and Quantum Pause enables this link to be penetrates a deeper region of our collective prison, and returns to
nurtured, expanded, strengthened, and made stable. write or speak about it. Their observations and experiences
become part of our Genetic Mind or unconscious, and these can
It is also important to understand that everything I bring forward have profound meaning to our specie overall because the human
for an individual’s consideration should be treated as a family – every one of us – has access to this field of
framework, not a prescriptive technique that should be followed consciousness.
rigidly. Individuals need to take responsibility for establishing
their own exploratory techniques, methods of expansion, and new But the steps we take, in the direction of the Sovereign Integral,
behaviors of disentangling from the HMS. Quantum Pause is a are small, sometimes indistinguishable, in the context of a single
framework, not a specific system. With the web (an analogue of lifetime. The eras in which we live determine our self-
the Genetic Mind), there are ways to share your adjustments, add- expressions, our definitions, and our beliefs. We are always in the
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process of the next evolution, as determined by the Genetic Mind, presences, the experience of oneness and beauty, but they do not
the Earth/Nature element, and the interdimensional beings that want to go through the gateway of emptiness to get there because
interact with humanity. Behind all of this, is First Source, who emptiness is death and non-existence of the mind. And the mind
masterfully draws humanity to itself, one individual at a time. is what they have come to believe is them.
With that context, I hope it is clear that Jesus or Buddha or Lao I am not suggesting that Jesus or Buddha did not possess this
Tzu or Mohammed or Saint Germaine or any other master of insight. They most certainly did and do. In a way, each of us
their era, was on the spiritual frontier, deep in the territory of the possess this insight through the Genetic Mind, but very few who
higher Mind, which unto itself is so vast as to make the physical have walked this planet in a human form have achieved this
universe seem like a grain of sand. The entrance to the non- insight based upon experience and not simply abstractions of
polarity realms was not nearly as accessible as it is in this era. words or symbols from the Genetic Mind. Jesus manifested on
There were no bridges to cross over, no portals open and Earth to teach humans of his era that death was not real. That
operating; it was literally a wilderness without trails or paths. God was not out there, but within the individual – every
individual was equal in their standing; that the human race was a
And so, these spiritual explorers, as great as they were, as deep as victim of enslavement to the Money Power Grid, and until
they journeyed into the Heavenly realms, few of them touched humanity would rise up in the self-expression of its spiritual
the true essence of our highest nature – in that lifetime in which nature, it would remain a puppet of the powerful. And so it has.
they became identified with a religion or spiritual path. The
parallel for this exists in science as well. Look at Newton, the From the very beginning, the insight of the Sovereign Integral is
greatest scientific explorer of his era, and yet today, we know that a reflection of the era in which we live. As First Beings, the
his framework was deeply flawed. Was he deluded? No, he was Sovereigns created a mind – a vessel in which separation could
operating in his era at the highest level based on the Genetic occur – and from that moment, individuality was born. Over
Mind. Even now, in our era, Einstein’s contributions are being billions upon billions of years, the Sovereigns of the Mind,
called into question by 21st century physicists and cosmologists. created the universe as we know it. They created the dimensions
of the higher mind, and this mind creation gradually manifested
Just as science is constantly redefining the Universe, spiritual creations of a lower mind. It was within the vibratory field of the
explorers are constantly redefining the God-Spirit-Soul Complex. lower mind that the Sovereigns began to lose their memory of
The layers of knowledge are near infinite in both cases, and, at their existence as First Beings.
their core, have mathematical counterparts at an octave that
humanity has yet to even imagine, let alone discover. Thus, any They would look at the worlds of creation and wonder, “Who
suggestion that I perceive the achievements and contributions of created this universe? Who was behind this magnificent and
humanity’s spiritual or scientific explorers as lacking or magical world?” And yet it never occurred to the Sovereigns that
deceptive is only a result of not understanding the larger context it was they who created the universe, and whose very reflection is
of time and the depth of the “onion” we are collectively “peeling” Nature itself. And so the Sovereigns began to create a God – or
– in both the scientific and spiritual dimensions. the concept of a Supreme Being – as the one behind creation.
God was the creator of all in Nature throughout the multiverse,
Question 25 from Project Camelot: and Sovereigns became diminished of power, and their sense of
responsibility to Nature was also reduced.
And how is this realization different from that attained by
Buddha, Jesus or other 'masters' commonly recognized within the This concept of God, separate from us, was thus born. As
human family? Is not saying one is a Sovereign Integral and Sovereigns divided into races of interdimensional beings, they
therefore First Source identical to saying one is God and developed a near-infinite diversity of creations, only the tiniest
enlightened or 'at one'? fraction of which is known to humanity through symbols and
fragments of stories, and most of these, if they are even
Answer 25 from James: While I have answered this question remembered, are not believed anymore, as the rational mind has
from a more traditional geometry in previous responses, I will, emptied these stories into the wastebasket of mythology. Then,
this time, take a new angle to your question. Anu’s forefathers appeared, and with them, the creation of the
human instrument began. Though it was crude, when compared
In the stillness, purposelessness, and emptiness of you, to modern-day humans, the human instrument of this era was
everything exists. And yet, isn’t this precisely what human beings nonetheless brilliantly conceived.
fear most? In the absolute center of who you are, where the void
is, do you not fear this? Perhaps it would be accurate to say that When Anu began to create the next evolution of the human
this is the origin of fear itself. An irony wouldn’t you say, that the instrument, he realized how Sovereigns were forgetful of their
Sovereign Integral, that which most clearly defines you, is feared origins and had consigned creation to a Supreme Being. The
by you. Why do you suppose this is? Why would you fear the Sovereigns that had become the interdimensional beings known
void and emptiness that is you? Why would you refuse to look as the Atlanteans, were perfect choices to power the human
through the portal of your human instrument and perceive instruments that Anu was creating, for the Atlanteans, despite
without the mind in attendance? their spiritual prowess, were inexperienced with deception. And
this, I might add, is a theme worth noting: the spiritually focused
This is precisely why human beings are addicted to spiritual are often the most easily manipulated because of their innate
propaganda. They fear the still-point in which they exist because sense of trust.
they have been programmed by their HMS, and accepted it as
truth: what is the void – is but death and non-existence. Thus, The Atlanteans, through the trickery of Anu, were seduced into
they search for the beautiful, the harmonious, the spiritual vistas inhabiting the human instrument, and the Sovereigns became
of higher worlds, the descriptions of peace and love, angelic humans. However, not every Atlantean was captured and
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subjected to the process of human enslavement, there were some, on the streets, but still, you remain outside of the culture as an
who predicted the outcome of the human project that Anu was observer, and not a participant.
executing and they fled within a dimensional “pocket” upon
Earth, deep within what is now called the Atlantic ocean. Only when you learn the language of the people, when you meet
the people in their own dwellings – homes, shops, cafes, sports
It was these Atlanteans that became known in mythological terms arenas, schools, churches – do you really begin to understand the
as the Elohim or Shining Ones, and these are the same as we culture. This is analogous to the bridgework between the GSSC
know today as the WingMakers. These beings have been and the Sovereign Integral. There is nothing more exotic or out of
watching the human family since its initial footsteps on a the ordinary than the language and dwellings of the Sovereign
densifying planet called Earth, millions of years ago. They have Integral, and the deeper you travel into this land, the stranger it
been the benevolent resource to humanity because they are will seem.
human in every sense except they do not have the HMS programs
and systems or the human instrument that distract and divert the If I disclosed all of what is there in 1998, or even today, ten years
Sovereigns within the human instrument from realizing they are later, the bridge would only carry a handful of people. It would
present. seem a rickety and dangerous bridge to cross over, and many who
would be curious or tempted would be talked out of crossing
And how are the Sovereigns present? In every breath that brings because it was just too strange. And so the bridge was
life to the human instrument. It is the breath in which the constructed to meet certain people where they lived and how they
Sovereign’s presence dwells. There is a saying within Lyricus believed. Those who resonated with the key terms and
that If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your mind. It’s well definitions, or an element of poetry, or music, or art, they found a
understood that this is an abstract concept to the Human Mind texture, or structure that gave them a sense of connection, a sense
System, but the Sovereigns live in the intersection of life and of curiosity, and it was enough to bring them onto the bridge.
Nature, which is the breath.
To use my previous metaphor, they are now landing at the
The WingMakers are not the guides, angels, ascended masters, or “airport.” They are seeing the exotic land of the Sovereign
gods that exist within the dimensions of the Human Mind Integral from their airplane seat, looking out of a small, glass
System. They live within the interdimensional fields of the higher window into a vast, new world. Remember, the First Point, as
mind, and like wise elders to the human family they provide the you step from the plane, is your breath, your heart and the virtues
paradigms of the Sovereign Integral and Grand Portal. They of its wisdom, as this is not a destination where the language is
focus exclusively on these two paradigms because from these anything more than breath and virtuous self-expression. It is this
come the First Point that enables the individual to dissolve the simple.
programs that conceal the one, the equal, and the truthful from
itself. I realize there will be those who will read this interview and a
hundred more questions will flutter about them, perhaps only two
The WingMakers coined the term Sovereign Integral to encode or three will really matter in the moment, but the desire for more
the meaning that what exists within the pathways of one’s breath information and knowledge is a powerful addiction of the HMS. I
is more than a physical body composed of a circuitry of feelings would advise that you turn your attention from the acquisition of
and thoughts. The greatest of the spiritual explorers realized this information and knowledge, and apportion it to the application of
and have understood that the human soul would be redefined in the heart virtues to yourself and all others within your local
every era, and while it would appear to change, it always remains multiverse, and then simply listen to your breath, and each time
the constant awareness of both the infinite and the finite, and the you turn your attention to your breath, lean a little closer to the
real and the unreal. Being inside you, in the centermost point of your existence. Feel
this bond strengthening and have the conviction that any walls
One can read this interview and walk away feeling that an that have been placed between you, or will be placed between
existential aura has been placed around them. That their concepts you, will be torn down.
of God, Spirit, Soul, and everything affiliated, which they have
been taught or elected to believe, has been challenged. Even If your focus is there, you will find access to everything,
those who have followed the WingMakers materials with including the language of the Sovereign Integral and how to
dedication will find that I have changed the footing of those reawaken its culture within you, and live among its dwelling
materials somewhat in this disclosure. places.
If you have ever ventured to an exotic destination, one that is It is the era of transparency and expansion.
culturally unlike your own, you’re well aware that when you are
in the airplane, flying over your destination, you really have not Nunti-Sunya.
experienced the culture yet, no matter how much you have
studied it in advance. When you arrive at your hotel, you remain From my heart to yours,
outside of the culture, though you can see the differences in the
plants and animals, the architecture and buildings, and the people James
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Project Camelot:
“Jake Simpson” - The Biggest Secret
written information. Incredibly, he has a reading speed of
between 80,000 and 100,000 words per minute. To graduate from
that class, he was given a copy of George Orwell's Animal
Farm and had three minutes to read it before being tested on
every detail. He scored 90%. This was adequate for a pass, but
was not the highest score... another student scored 100%.
Jake is a very able psychic intuitive to this day. He is able to

perceive when the AI [artificial intelligence] information
gathering system was 'focused' in his direction and would
periodically pick his exact moment to relate something to us. We
observed this again and again. While it at all times seemed the
On return to Europe from the 2008 NEXUS Conference in
same to us, sometimes Jake told us it was safe to talk, while at
Australia, flying out of Sydney, we stopped off in Thailand to
other times it was not. It took a little while for us to understand
visit a close friend who lives on the island of Koh Samui. Samui
exactly what was going on here.
is well known as a travelers' international crossroads, and is also
a place where a number of expats of all nationalities have settled.
See below for more on this. We have not heard this information
anywhere else in the literature, on the internet, or mentioned by
There we had the good fortune to meet Jake Simpson [an agreed
any other witness. But I [Bill] had one experience that showed
pseudonym]. We spent several days with him and got to know
me directly that this was very real indeed.
him, and his family, very well. His story, which we heard in great
detail, was one of the most important and interesting we have
ever heard. Approaching Project Camelot
Jake had written to us by way of introduction:

None of the many long conversations we had were recorded, and
we hope to capture an audio interview with Jake soon. The
I have spent many years previously working in
following concise summary was compiled upon return to the US,
abstract areas of national security on behalf of
and has been checked for accuracy by Jake himself.
the various parties concerned. I have been very
impressed by some of your interviewees'
For reasons which will become obvious, we were at first quite
comments. Keep up the outstanding work.
unsure whether to release this at all. After a great deal of thought,
and further consultation with Jake, we decided to make this
Jake approached Project Camelot after our work had been
information available. Assuming it is true - and we believe that it
brought to his attention by a friend. At first, he wasn't convinced
is - it could hardly be more significant. It dovetails with
that we were 'real'. However, his connections enabled him to do
everything else we know. And in many ways, we wish that it did
the requisite background checks, and he told us that it soon
not.
became clear that we passed muster.
Much of what follows is barely believable, so this may be its own
He told us he knew everything about us, but that we had "nothing
best defense. Those who choose not to believe this information at
to worry about". Everyone who had ever tried to do something
all can relax - just a little, and maybe for a little while - with the
like we were doing before, apparently, had been killed. He told us
knowledge that none of it can currently be proved. For the benefit
he'd watched every one of our videos, admired what we did, and
of those whose jobs it is to monitor this information, we do not
that we had a lot of courage. He assured us that some of what we
have any documentation of any kind. We are delighted, however,
have reported is very close to the truth, and that we had his
to consider Jake a close friend. We are absolutely certain that he
respect.
is exactly who he says he is, and have talked with a number of
people who have known him for many years.
Jake is one of many in military/ intelligence circles who are the
'white hats'. Idealistically motivated, he made his career choice
In the report that follows, exact written quotes
when young, wanting to work for mankind and play his part in
from Jake himself are presented indented and in
helping Planet Earth become a better place. Despite discovering
italics, as in this closing paragraph.
the true, bewildering complexity of the world he had entered, he
retained both his idealism and his job... and many years later
decided to approach Project Camelot with a portion of what he
now knew.
Enhanced abilities
He told us that we had many of the correct puzzle pieces - and
Jake Simpson was in a 'specialist field' [his preferred term]
that, furthermore, it was understood that we work with integrity,
working for a nation friendly to the US. His early training, which
and that we're not trying to breach any legitimate national
is still with him, featured an enhancement of his ability to absorb
security. He stressed that we were quite liked by a number of the
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'white hats' who were monitoring us closely, despite our being on Report, based on a story by the prolific author Philip K. Dick,
a number of 'watch lists' of every kind. comes to mind - we omitted to ask.
Jake helped us understand that if we kept our information general Jake's actions in being sensitive to this device (if device is the
and didn't try to prove anything (with documentation or by any right word) - by waiting for exactly the right 'window' of
other means), we would remain safe. He stressed that it was very opportunity to tell us certain things - were not fully understood
important not to get too specific on certain sensitive issues, and to by us until I (Bill Ryan) had the following experience.
be very wary of ever getting hold of any definitive
documentation. On our last night together, sitting out in the open after a barbecue,
at about 2 am, Jake decided to tell me some things he had not
Classified technology and the secret space program previously revealed, surveillance or no surveillance. As he began
to speak, he immediately encountered problems, as if trying to
Jake emphasized to us that the current state of classified force himself through a barrier. Simultaneously, I found was
technology was something like 10,000 [ten thousand] years ahead being put to sleep and could hardly keep my eyes open. We both
of public sector technology - and was accelerating away from spotted what was happening, and remarked on it to one another.
public sector technology at a current rate of 1,000 years per
calendar year. Jake forced himself to keep talking, and I made myself keep
listening through a spell of overwhelming dopiness. This episode
This got our attention. lasted half an hour or maybe more. We were being forcibly
stopped, in real time, from communicating effectively, as a direct
Jake did not blink when we mentioned time travel, the Mars base, and immediate response to our intentions.
or the advanced fleet of craft which we had been told by Henry
Deacon serviced it. Jake told us that some of the advanced craft It's very important to understand that this was unconnected with
were capable of traveling from geostationary orbit (22,300 miles) electromagnetics, hidden microphones, targeted beams, or
to treetop height in five seconds. (Work it out: that's about 16 anything else of that nature. My own reference point for what
million miles per hour - although Jake made it clear that the craft happened was a kind of negative radionics (which also works
would not actually be moving through space in the normal hyperdimensionally, but as a positive health modality).
sense... and would also never be seen unless this was intended.)
Some of the craft were "larger on the inside than outside". In the end we concluded our conversation, now pretty tired. The
next morning I simply could not recall what Jake had told me -
Had they traveled to the outer reaches of the solar system? Yes. and still can't. Upon meeting him again and reporting that I
Beyond our solar system? Yes. Are some of them superluminal couldn't remember a thing about our conversation except for the
(i.e. capable of faster-than-light travel)? Yes. Were some of them weird effects we had both experienced, he replied wryly:
very large? Yes. By this time, we were no longer surprised by
Jake's answers. The significance of the superluminal craft would Maybe it's just as well.
be stressed in a subsequent conversation.
The biggest secret
The human race had had contact with extraterrestrials since
before World War II. Jake told us that it was very probable that The international network of deep underground bases, Jake
Eisenhower's 1955 heart attack was at least partially induced by confirmed, had been built in a continuing program since soon
the stress of some of the information he had learned from the after the end of World War II costing trillions of dollars. The
extraterrestrials who he had personally met a short time before issue here was that military leaders had learned through ET
(after several previous set-up meetings with senior military contact that a potential catastrophe of huge magnitude, occurring
officials). early in the 21st century, was possible. This information was
certainly known to Eisenhower, Jake said (and may have been
Taken all together, Jake told us, the ET visitors came from partially responsible for his heart attack), and was very possibly
various races, systems and times, and that human DNA "was known as early as World War II.
compatible" with hundreds of different races. All these ET races,
in some meaningful sense, could be said to be "human or human- Just as we had presented in our important summary article The
like”. Big Picture, the problem is one which involves massive potential
Earth changes that could, in extremis, threaten our civilization.
AI surveillance and access to knowledge The situation had been extensively studied and evaluated and the
conclusion had been reached that the public could not be told.
The AI surveillance system, Jake told us, was literally "out of this
world". It operates hyperdimensionally, based on a highly Jake described the threat - metaphorically - as a wave that was
advanced quantum computing model that is basically our heading our way. It was unclear whether this 'wave' is a product
development based on acquired alien technology. This system is of an area of space which the solar system is entering - or
so advanced that the ETs themselves are unhappy that we have it. whether it is the result of a close fly-past by a large rogue
celestial body, or even a combination of two or three
Not only does it enable access to what any given person is simultaneous situations or other unusual and impending
saying, or even thinking - if targeted for investigation - it can also cosmological events. But when I asked how this is all known, the
transcend time itself and thereby access information about the answer came back that the superluminal craft have gone out to
thoughts and words of historical figures. Whether this system can take a good look at what is around, and have returned with the
look into the future - the Tom Cruise movie Minority information.
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Jake stressed that IT IS NOT KNOWN what the effects of this The great classified libraries of the world, in the Vatican and
situation will be, nor precisely when this may occur. The military elsewhere, all contained detailed accounts of the destruction of
are preparing for worst case scenarios, which is what they do prior civilizations. The Flood Myth, as many anthropologists
best. Readers familiar with our work will note the connection have described, is evident in many dozens of different cultures all
with the report from the Norwegian Politician, and also Dan over the world. All this is described in our article The Big
Burisch's information which culminates in the report on Timeline Picture.
1, variant 83 [T1v83].
The threat of stealth viruses
Of particular interest is the contradiction with the T1v83
information, in which Dan told us that in the latter half of 2007 a These catastrophic events, Jake told us, would happen not in
highly classified time portal intelligence retrieval project (for lack 2012 but several years after that, though the dates were not
of any better phrase) had analyzed a number of possible precisely known. When we put Bob Dean's date of 2017 to him
alternative future timelines and concluded that variant 83 - the (in the context of the coming of Nibiru), Jake's response is that
most probable of the many that had been investigated - that would be close, as best he knew.
demonstrated that the 'Timeline 2' catastrophe had been averted
and that while civilization would not be under threat, the next few More immediate, said Jake, was the threat of the deliberate
years would bring major problems. These included nuclear release of viruses followed by
exchanges in a prolonged period of global conflict, under an
administration in which Hillary Clinton had been elected ...the hideous effects of spontaneous eruptions
President of the US. of new generations of opportunistic bacteria like
Necrotizing Fasciitis and more advanced
Since that information was researched - a year ago at the time of versions of golden staphylococci which would
writing this article - it has become very clear that that timeline further reduce the world's population after the
variant has been 'broken', and that we are now instead hurtling initial first line of worldwide disasters had
along on another, uncharted timeline. In Dan's words to us a few occurred.
months ago, "All bets are off" - and when we put Dan's phrase to
Jack, he responded: This would trigger worldwide infrastructure breakdown, cause
chaos, and make populations easier to control.
That's about right. I wouldn't disagree with that
at all. Jake predicted that it was quite possible that sometime before the
end of 2009 - or possibly early 2010 - there would be a sudden
Jack's information is that it had never been certain that the and rapid escalation of international reported outbreaks of
catastrophe had been averted, and he confirmed that the extremely dangerous viruses (whether manmade or otherwise).
governments of many first-world nations were continuing to He emphasized that announcements of a global pandemic could
make their detailed and extensive preparations. Australia, we suddenly emerge from nowhere "within hours", and that it would
were told, was the "Ark of the World", and had been designated be smart to be prepared: he stressed that some countries could
as such many years previously. quickly become quarantined, or choose to quarantine themselves,
with major implications for international travel and port or airport
Jake confirmed that he had personally seen some of the classified controls.
maps showing dramatically altered future coastlines, and also
confirmed the possibility of a very advanced high-speed 'shuttle- Coupled with these outbreaks there will be a
like' system that connected many places, like the US and very real possibility of food shortages. Even
Australia under the Pacific Ocean - a longstanding but always more importantly, there will very likely be
uncorroborated rumor within the UFO community that had shortages of quality foods containing all of the
acquired semi-mythological status since the startling reports of necessary levels of active and absorbable
John Lear and William Cooper in the late 1980s. Jake told us that vitamins and minerals of the necessary types,
and in the right or proportional quantities, to
...the acceleration presses you back into your allow for the human body to properly and
seat for a very long time. adequately nourish itself.
This has all happened before These shortfalls and omissions of some of the
fundamental basic substances of various foods
One of the most startling snippets of information Jake revealed will prevent people's immune systems from
was that in some locations the base construction engineers had operating at optimum levels, thus leaving them
broken through into much older facilities that had been there for exposed to these new virulent types of
thousands of years prior - apparently built for an identical diseases. This will leave literally hundreds of
defensive purpose. All this, Jake had told us, had happened millions of people exposed to disease vectors
before: the catastrophic events are cyclic. through 2011-2012 onwards.
Because of what had been learned through breaking into older Technological access to other dimensions
facilities built by a prior Earth culture, in some locations
decisions had been made to increase the depth of the new Finally, Jake told us of research that had unlocked technology
facilities to as much as 30,000 feet [9000 meters]. surrounding access to other dimensional states of existence.
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In these other alternate states of reality The pursuit by some at the expense of the many
sometimes it turns out they can very briefly and seems to always end up to be the ultimate price,
spontaneously manifest, very occasionally quite along with the loss of the Individual and Eternal
naturally, here on Earth and in any other part of Grand Self/ Soul/ Spirit, particularly when the
this universe. In very special circumstances, individual sells out all that is sacred to the
these can spontaneously manifest across not ongoing existence of our race.
only this universe but indeed into alternative
universal realities. As Jake explained, some of these power elite's motives
constituted
There is a massive amount of research funding
being applied to this very obscure part of the ...a viable and sustainable level of a heavily
broad spectrum of the special access programs manicured and vastly reduced human
of the world’s budgetary allowance for these population, under the pretence of saving first the
types of programs. These funds are managed planet, and next the vast majority of all of the
and funneled from every imaginable area of the other diverse range of different species here on
majority of the world’s countries through an Earth.
amazing array of abstract instrumentalities and
public funding projects. Jake told us that it had been explained to him:
The research involved with this subject is at the "You have to break a few eggs in order to create
top of the world’s power elite's priorities. This is a really great meal. The Destroyer of Worlds
why there are very selective sightings of some [sic] brings with it the promise of massively
of the largest scientific programs, currently renewed and clean prolific growth for yet
ongoing across the world. another new direction in Earth Human evolution.
Roaches will always be roaches. Someone’s got
The geographical location (in three dimensions) is absolutely to keep them under control.”
critical in some special cases. Jake wrote:
The quote reminded us of Henry Deacon's reported briefing in
The Earth’s specific rotation is also of which he had been ordered to read The Report From Iron
consideration and its relationship to the sun and Mountain, and had been told: “There are the wolves and there
the other planetary bodies contained with in our are the sheep, and we are the wolves.”
solar system - especially the larger ones. There
are very many localized effects experienced Jake said that what he had been told was highly disturbing to
subtly, here on Earth in the course of a year, in him, and stressed just how at odds he ultimately was
relation to the specific location to other localized
celestial bodies, apart from our sun, contained ...with the paramount agenda of a significant
within and without the heliosphere. element of the absolute power elite.
On a larger scale, the position of our solar system in relation to Jake’s strong personal ethics and morality always prevented him
our galaxy is also of vital importance. Jake's words again: from receiving the rich benefits that he told us he knew could
have been his. He told us he was
Our galaxy’s position, speed and direction
relative to several neighboring galaxies is also ...happy to remain obscure while still
important. Beyond this is an understanding of a contributing where appropriate to assist
technology that not only allows for absolute humankind in meaningful and positive ways.
universal travel and capitalization of the
fantastic power that entails, but provides the We gained the impression that the power elite have largely left
ability to move or travel dimensionally. Jake alone. It was evident to us that he has an intimate knowledge
of their culture and knows how to ensure his and his family's
Jake explained that this knowledge is essential to the next phase safety.
in 'Earth human' development...
...if we Earth humans are ever to be freed from We close here with this remarkable man's own words:
this particular part of existence and universal /
multiversal constraints. This suggests an even more powerful, off-world group or association
that I may have a very special relationship with, that is lending a very
Jake stated that as in every aspect of human history here on discreet helping hand... where possible.\
Earth, there have been supporters, detractors and outright
enemies... We are hopeful that we might record a voice-disguised audio interview
with Jake, and although this has been discussed it has not yet been
...both on Earth and not from Earth. Nothing arranged or agreed. We will post more information as soon as we can.
much has changed over all these eons of time.
The play is still largely the same with all of the
We thank our friend here for his courage in providing this remarkable
same motives and allegiances.
testimony. Kerry and I are as certain as we can be that this man is both
well-informed and has the highest integrity.
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Project Camelot:
“Ricardo Silva”:
Illuminati Activities And High Strangeness
January 2009 Quito, Ecuador
the point they want to help themselves, and they want to know
what’s truly going on.
And a lot of these things sound like total fantasy. They sound like
something out of a movie. In fact, it would make awesome
movies.
BR: And some people have made awesome movies out of some
of this stuff.
RS: And if it weren’t true, then they would be even more fun to
watch.
During our January 2009 trip to Quito, Ecuador, we met an
expatriate American who had had a number of very interesting
But my story starts with... I want to focus on a relationship that I
experiences. After a preliminary conversation, we asked him if he
had, an intimate relationship, with a very, very good friend, that...
would be willing to tell his story on record to Project Camelot.
Either way, whether he has been murdered, or he has been taken
For reasons that will become obvious to the reader, he has asked
elsewhere against his will -- either way, this fellow is a victim of
to remain anonymous. Ricardo Silva is a pseudonym.
severe torture, severe manipulation. His body has been physically
hurt with many drugs, with many types of tortures.
Start of interview And I’m gonna describe how I became aware of this and how I
got information. You see, folks like David Icke, to me, came
Kerry Cassidy (KC): ...The other caveat that I should tell you is afterwards. I didn’t read David Icke first and then discover these
that we don’t know you. I know Bill [Ryan] heard a little bit of things. Cisco Wheeler came afterwards. And I’m going to be
your story. describing to you why and how I came about them, and how I
came up with their books and their information.
Ricardo Silva (RS): Right.
So, in this story I’m not gonna use real names and I’m not gonna
KC: We’re not guaranteeing at this point that we’ll publish it. use real places, either.
RS: Oh, that’s perfectly up to you. If you feel it’s right for what KC: Can I ask you a question, first of all?
you’re doing, you know. It still might be useful for you.
RS: Yeah. Go ahead.
KC: Well, absolutely, and that’s why we’re here.
KC: Are you of Spanish descent?
RS: Right.
RS: Yes, I am, of Spain. Yes.
KC: I mean, we’re hoping it’s publishable. We’re hoping there’s
something about it... KC: I just wanted to check that because I can see that you have
this in your vitality.
RS: The reason I’m giving you this information is because it
helps you and your audience put bits and pieces together that they RS: In my bloodline. Yes.
may be missing. And... we’re recording now, right?
KC: And bloodline. Because my father has some of this, and I
Bill Ryan (BR): We’re recording. was just picking up on this energy.
RS: All right. So I want to give you folks this information RS: All right. So I just wanted to describe how this whole thing
because your audience out there may be where I was at before. came about and what are the things that I’ve discovered which
And they may have some doubts about some of these things are quite unpleasant.
being true.
Anyhow, I want you to understand, especially your audience, that
Some people may be looking for information because they want this information... I’m providing it so it can help others.
to help someone. Or they may even have gotten, fortunately, to
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I met this fellow and I became really close friends with him. And And his skills in martial arts, and medicine, and several fields of
I started noticing awkward things about him here and there. And engineering ... He was quite amazing. An amazing surgeon,
one of those awkward things that brought us together is that he’s though he was blind in one eye.
a genius. He’s one of the most intelligent persons that I‘ve ever
met in my... I would say he’s the most intelligent person I’ve ever And I’ll get into the blindness of the eye, because one of the ways
met in my life. to identify these folks is because their eyes will be slightly... one
eye will be slightly twisted. And they’ll have a scar on one side
This fellow can hold a conversation on just about any subject. He of their face. If I recall correctly, it’s the right side of the face.
holds it exceptionally well, down to the point that... I remember They’ll have a scar. And their eyes will be slightly twisted.
once I challenged him on a subject. He was going on and on and
on about anesthesiology. And one of his practices, one of his And what happens is... And I’ll explain that. As part of putting a
many practices, was an anesthesiologist. chip in the back of their heads, they end up losing the vision in
one eye. But the chip gives them certain super powers which
And I challenged him on the subject. I says: You know, I think are... photographic memory being one of them. And that’s more
you’re totally full of shit when you’re telling me stuff. You’re just advantageous to their handlers than the eye is.
making it up on the fly. How do you do it? You know?
So, even having one eye, there is amazing hand abilities. I’ve
He became very irritable and very furious. And he turned around seen this fellow do some just amazing surgeries that other
and went to his filing cabinet and pulled out a book, and threw it surgeons could not even resemble, the speed that he could do a
in my face. And when I grabbed it, he says: Look who wrote it. surgery.
And I was like: Wow, damn, he actually wrote the book. But it’s And so, let me tell you a little bit more of how I came about with
an unpublished book -- a whole bunch of unpublished books this guy.
written by this fellow, and books with very deep levels and
technical areas. BR: Could I just interrupt here?
This guy was approached... And I saw his letters. He received a RS: Yeah. Ask me questions. Prompt me along.
letter once from the embassy in the country that he lived in, a
South American country. And it was a letter from the US BR: Just for the sake of some sort of introduction to this, is there
embassy offering him a job for $750,000 a year. something that you could say about yourself -- without giving
away anything that, of course, would identify you -- but as
And it even gets into numerology... because it’s rather context, so that the reader will know how it was that you got to
interesting, the sickness of these people. I don’t remember the be in the position to become very close to a man like this?
exact numbers, so don’t go do the numerology on this. But it also
came with an insurance policy with a number of $16 million, KC: Yes. What’s your background?
something or another, whatever the number was, in case of his
death. RS: This didn’t happen per my background. It was just
coincidental. I think that we sort of vibrate at certain rates of
And he went on describing what this lab would look like. And knowledge. In our society we’re always gonna, at some point or
this lab would be a place that you’d go in, and part of your another, we’re going to attract similar minds.
contract and your agreement is that if something goes wrong in
the lab, if you happen to drop a vial or something, they’re not If you happen to be someone that has spent your entire life
going to do anything to cure you. There are armed guards all over studying, seeking knowledge, information of any sort, whatever it
the place. They would shoot everyone. And they would just burn might be, eventually you are just going to run into these people.
the entire place down. So you knew what kind of risk you were Or you probably have them as your friends already. They’re
getting involved in. probably part of your life already and you have no clue.
But he was a pretty wise fellow and he knew this was a BR: It happens to us, so we understand this.
temptation. Because, amazingly... He was amazing in knowledge.
He also lived very, very, very poor. He lived in a very small RS: You know, this guy took me years before I figured these
place, slept on the floor, had no wealth. things out. You know, I was intimate, very close friends of his,
before I really started noticing that he was a program victim, you
The things that came to him came to him temporarily. Like a know. So, the camouflage is superb. It’s awesome.
constant, nonstop flow of books. But the minute he would read a
book, he would have to return it, or get rid of it in some way. So His family would know it, but their family are all part of it. And
he never had too many books to show and not too much you start tracing details about these people -- like every single
information to show. male in his family has been assassinated. His father, his brothers,
you know. All down the list, it’s assassination after assassination.
There was a steady stream of people coming to him, to teach him,
to train him. And it was amazing. I got to meet many of these But when you look up these assassinations, if you happen to ask
people. And it’s just amazing, the people within our society that someone and you happen to look them up in a newspaper or
support the system, sometimes willingly, sometimes unwillingly, something, there will be... They’re testings.
compromised at different levels. But it was amazing how they
would go to teach him. Like his father was cut up in pieces with a machete. You know.
And the common story that goes around is, it was a jealousy
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thing. Well, when you start learning more about these things, you For example, after I started finding out about these things, I
know there’s no jealousy. It’s a message to others not to step out pushed one of the triggers. And he very quickly reached into his
of line. And that’s what it really is. pocket, pulled out a very small .22 revolver -- the kind of thing
you would use for an assassination. He pointed it at my head.
He had a sister that actually found out she was his sister after his And he stopped, and he said: Let’s kill ourselves. Let’s do it right
death. You know, how sick, that you can have family members now. Let’s kill ourselves. You pull your gun. You shoot me. I’ll
you’ve been hiding. And, fortunately, this woman was hidden. shoot you.
But apparently there are several clones of this woman going I was like: Hey. Relax, buddy. You know? That’s when I realized
around -- and that’s actually quite fascinating on its own. that I had to be extremely careful about helping this guy being
deprogrammed.
There were events where she would walk in a room and there was
some other person there and would start talking to her very BR: Because you didn’t know what all the triggers were,
intimately in another language that she could understand. And he presumably. Is that it?
would have walked in and would look at this fellow and says: No,
no. Stop. Stop. It’s not her. Period. And he says: Whaddya mean RS: Well, it’s... Just having this conversation that we’re having
it’s not her? right now about this point would have probably got us all killed.
So, she can tell that she’s been a clone because other people BR: OK.
would treat her so emphatically and she would realize that she’s
been cloned. I also think that this fellow has been cloned. RS: So, the trigger is bringing up the subject, you know,
bringing up the subject of programming or anything that even
Well, one of the things that I should say in this interview head- remotely gets close to it. They are programmed, that if you really
on... what we’re talking about is a victim of programming. A touch them, and you really get close to who and what they are,
fellow has a handler. And he’s one of the people that they would it’s not only to kill you, but commit suicide so they’re out of the
use to infiltrate government, who was in a low-ranking picture. You know, the programming failed. And I experienced
government position but he could easily make it into a higher- this myself, you know. Having a gun put to my head was a nasty
ranking position in government. experience.
He would be the person you would use for an assassination, very Another mutual friend of ours, he pulled a gun and he put a round
similar to some of the assassinations of the presidents in the next to his ear. Well, it’s a pretty damn clear message. Very,
United States. He would be the person you would use to infiltrate very, very clear message. Don’t touch my programming. Don’t
a medical institution, or society, or high-level medical, play with it.
government position. He...
BR: Mm hm.
KC: What happened to this man?
RS: So, here’s a really interesting part, which is... When I first
RS: What happened to him? Well that’s sort of the end of the moved into this city, I moved here because I was looking for
story, but I suppose we can cover that right now. peace and tranquility from many other problems in my personal
life which aren’t related to this story. But they may very well be
Slaves are terminated at age 34 if they somehow don’t serve in the same neighborhood of violence.
another purpose. At that age, the memories start coming back.
And that most definitely was starting to happen to this guy. I’ve been, at least a dozen times, too damn close to a bullet. And
I was trying to run away from a situation where one of these
He started researching on his own, spiritual subjects. And these times that bullet would be on me instead of being just too damn
spiritual subjects started opening up his mind, and he started close.
making other contacts, one of them myself, and having
conversations about what you should be doing in life, and what’s So I decided to move into a remote part of South America, and
good, and what’s wrong, and what’s moral, and what’s not moral. just retire and relax, and have a peaceful, quiet life. And little did
I know that I would run into so much of this in this peaceful,
Obviously, they don’t operate... They have multiple personalities, tranquil place.
so the personality that may be the one to go and commit an
assassination is not the one you meet every day, or the one you KC: Right.
know every day.
RS: So, one of the things that happened was, when I moved into
These alternate personalities are rather difficult to see, but the city I rented an apartment in the city, and, just out of curiosity
occasionally you run into them, especially if you are in close. -- I happened to have a scanner. I’ve been a ham radio operator
since I was a child. So I happened to have a fairly high-end,
If you spend a lot of time with one of these people, then at some sophisticated scanner, one that goes from 100 kilohertz to 1
point or another you’re going to start seeing them. If you happen gigahertz -- and just to see what’s going on in the city, you know,
to, you know, spend a weekend in their house, then you might see see if there’s taxi service, ambulance, hospital, you know, what,
a flare-up of one of these personalities. If they’re under severe especially in a small city.
stress for whatever reason, then you might see one of these other
personalities. If you trigger it by bringing up a subject... I turn it on and something... something was quite clear and quite
obvious, but I didn’t know the source. It was a radiation. And I
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don’t remember the frequency, but it was about 440, between 440
and 460 megahertz. And it was full-blown radiation. I mean, full And I says: Well, it’s obvious there’s gas. You know.
power.
And that can only happen from a few things. I happen to be a
Also, being an engineer in these areas and knowing pretty proficient Scuba diver, so I know that’s one of the ways
communication quite well, I knew that the radiation wasn’t that you can do that. If you really do deep under water, you stay
coming in on the radio. And there’s a very simple test you can too long, and you go out way too fast, you might get these gas
do. You just pull the antenna off of it and you can see if the bubbles come on the back of your head.
radiation’s being from the outside or is being generated by the
radio itself. The other reason is, well, you’ve been in a low-quality spaceship,
you know. Not in an airplane. I’m talking spaceship, where the
KC: OK. What do you mean by radiation in this case? compression ratio would drop and increase dramatically because
it wasn’t designed properly. So that’s another possibility.
RS: Transmission. A radio transmission. Like a radio station?
The third possibility is being inside a pressure chamber, which is
BR: A radio wave. a pretty damn awkward thing to be in one of them. I mean,
there’s very few people that have ever been in one, and very few
RS: A transmission by radio wave. You know, like a... reasons to be in one of ’em.
KC: Static? And there’s a fourth one. I think a lung puncture would do that.
But, you know, those don’t heal very easily. You’d end up in the
RS: No. It didn’t have any static. It was like if you turn on your hospital with some severe other problems.
radio, let’s say an FM radio, and they don’t happen to be
transmitting anything at that point. You know, there’s no music. So, no explanations. Four reasons there and none of these fit the
Or you turn on a TV channel and the screen is blank, but it’s on. paradigm. I was so curious that I went on the internet and I
You can tell that you’re... There’s a carrier wave. You’re started searching for air bubbles in the back of the neck. Oh my
connected to that channel. goodness! What do I find? Cisco Wheeler’s book.
KC: OK. BR: Hm...
BR: There’s something there, but there’s no signal on it. RS: Titled: Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula. [by
Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler]
RS: Scanners have a power indicator, so they also indicate if it’s
a weak or a strong signal. This happened to be a very, very strong BR: Yes.
signal. And then I became rather curious, because it’s an
anomaly. This is not supposed to happen. You know, no one in RS: Now, pretty damn awkward book you would find for such
their right mind will turn on a radio and just leave it on for the an unlikely subject, you know. I was just hoping to find
hell of it, you know. Plus, it was covering a broad band of something in the medical records to talk about this.
frequency.
So I went ahead and read this book, about 400, 500-page book.
So, as a curiosity, one day I happened to drive around the city, And guess what? The book talks about implants in the back of the
and I happened to notice that this radiation goes on all over the head which are manipulated with a frequency at the 440, 460
city. So... I’m pointing in the direction of the city where we’re at. megahertz. Now isn’t that interesting, you know?
[laughs] And the city nearby where we’re at.
So I went back to my friend and I say: Hey, can I take a look at
KC: Yeah. Somehow it’s not surprising... the back of your head?
RS: So, later on... And I drove around on the outside of the city, And he says: Sure, why not?
in different areas, you know, 15, 20 miles, and this radiation is
not there. The radiation is in the city, and it covers a very large And I say: I just want to take a closer look.
area of the city, and is being done with multiple transmitters.
So I go and look. And my goodness! He has a surgery, a little
Anyhow, that stayed in the back of my mind as, you know, one of over half an inch, in the back of his neck.
those little things that happen in life, and you don’t have any
answers for it. Now, how do I know it’s not just a scratch, it’s a surgery? It
didn’t have outside sutures. If you hold the skin with your hand,
Later on, one day my friend had... I go to visit him, and he had underneath... you can feel if there’s sutures underneath, you
these air bubbles in the back of his neck. And they were fairly know, that it’s not just a surface cut, but there’s also more to it
large, you know, like between an inch and two inches, all over underneath. And yes, there was a ball there of more underneath,
the back of his neck. He had some fairly large air bubbles. And tissue that had been cut and sewed together.
you could touch, and you could feel it was air, you know, which
is gas bubbles. They would move around, these gas bubbles. But the outside scar -- rather fascinating -- had no suture, stitches,
and was a very, very thin line. I mean, very, very, very high
And he says to me: What the hell is this? Can you take a look at precision. I don’t think we even have... We don’t have any
it? What’s going on?
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instruments, surgical instruments that I know anyhow, that could But at this stage, things started getting really bad with him. One
do such a precision cut. of the things that happened that just tipped the whole thing
overnight... really bad... he called me one day.
BR: Hm.
And at one point he started confessing and telling me things and
RS: And an interesting thing about this guy... he’s an Indian. I’m opening up. Like for example, one day he pulled up a briefcase,
not talking about Hindu, you know. I’m talking about South and he had passports and ID for every imaginable country that
American Indian. you can think of. I mean, he could go anywhere and be anyone,
from military IDs, from passports for multiple countries, credit
And you start piecing these things together. I’ve also noted that cards, IDs in different professions. Pilot license. Medical license.
he had severe scars all over his body. He had scars on his arms,
scars... many areas on his body had scars. One that caught my He had one of the very few licenses in the world... very few
attention was scars... under his armpit he had some scars. people have the license that the US government recognizes to
transport any kind of drug anywhere. This fellow could go
He told me that he had been circumcised as a ritual when he was, anywhere, be caught with any type of drug, and he can just walk
I think he said 12, 13 years old, which is a rather unusual thing. right by -- which is something that is given to, you know, very
top government officials with the excuse: Well, we’ve got these
So I knew that this fellow would scar. He’s not the kind of person drugs and we’re transporting it from A to Z. You know. We’re
that gets a cut and doesn’t leave a nice big ugly scar. Many police officers. That kind of thing.
Indians, in their genetics, when they get a scar, the scar will open
up. You can see it years later. Even scratches are noticeable years He also had a license to experiment with drugs and it was
later. recognized by the South American country where I live. And it’s
recognized and is issued by the US government.
But here, I went back a couple of weeks and I said to him: Hey,
let me take a look at the scar on the back of your neck. Well And at first, you know, you look at these documents and you kind
guess what? Not even with a magnifying glass you could find it. of, like, laugh about it. You know, you just don’t take ’em too
It was GONE. I mean, totally gone. Nothing left of that surgery. serious, you know. But later on, as you start putting the pieces
And if I had not seen that surgery with my own eyes, I wouldn’t together, you start realizing the seriousness of the matter.
even believe it if he would tell me that he had it.
He had a flow of drugs coming into him all the time. And the
So I told him: Do you happen to know anything about these purpose they were given to him was to experiment and dispose of
implants? This was when things started getting rather interesting. them. So he didn’t keep a very... I don’t know. I think he kept a
He went ahead and asked who I identified later on as his handler. stash somewhere of drugs and weapons, but I never figured out...
And he asked him about the scar. He says: What’s going on? I never got to see that. So I assume there was somewhere that he
What is this thing? had a stash of technology, weapons, drugs. I only got to see some
of it occasionally.
And he says: Oh, we did it for your own good. He says: You see,
when we cut, we cut that part of the brain. When it heals, it heals KC: OK.
better, and you will end up having more mental abilities, perhaps
some supernatural powers that you didn’t have before. BR: Is this the same guy who you started to...
I said: Rather interesting. RS: We’re talking about one single person.
So don’t feel bad about it. We don’t do that to everyone. We only BR: This is all the same guy.
do it to those who are ready for that.
RS: Yeah. It’s all one single person.
And what I noticed with this fellow is that, in my assumption, his
programming was to be used up to a certain level and perhaps to BR: OK. Yep.
be discarded when he was 34 years old.
KC: OK. But what is the relationship such that you are involved
But he started... I guess maybe his handler had a love affair with with this person?
him, a brotherly love affair? Or somehow wanted to protect him?
Or there was just a genuine... that this guy is one of those few RS: Just purely friends. That’s it. I just got close to him because
geniuses in the world. we started having conversations on common subjects and just
became friends. You know, nothing business, nothing of any
So they started providing to him a huge, enormous information, other nature. Just...
but more on the conscious level, not under drug-induced
programming, so he would get himself up to speed, to the point RS’s colleague: But would it be appropriate to say how you met
that he would be good enough for them to manage companies. him? Or is that going to reveal too much about his...
And the goal was to give him a series of companies to manage.
And for him to accept what had been done to him, and take it as a RS: Well, how I met him is really not an important thing. It was
good thing, and just keep on living. just a casual thing. Just a coincidence. I had a patient that needed
a surgery and a mutual friend just suggested that we go to him.
Just a casual thing. He being a surgeon, so I just ran into him.
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Our mutual friend talked to him about me, and said: You know,
the two of you should meet. You’ve got a lot in common and it And I’m saying this because there’s a lot of people out there that
looks like the two of you would become good friends. And that’s could also be government officials listening to this that don’t
how we became... We started a friendship, just a pure, casual think that these stories are real, that they think that these stories
thing. I don’t think it was meant to be. It just happened. that they’ll read from Cisco Wheeler or David Icke are
fabricated. They are not fabricated. These things are real. It’s
And these people are not meant to have friends. They’re not like...
meant to have girlfriends or lovers or stable relationships or
anything. Everything is provided for them in a very controlled, KC: OK. Well, we are aware of this already. You don’t know,
unique environment. They are kept extremely busy. He is the, if maybe, our videos, but we interviewed Duncan O’Finioan, and he
not the youngest, one of the youngest MDs ever graduating from is a super-soldier who trained in this way.
this country, which on its own is quite an amazing task.
RS: That’s what this fellow was. Perhaps not as expanded as this
So anyhow, getting back to when I discovered about this brain fellow and within his capabilities, but a soldier, a type of soldier
implant. I started reading Cisco Wheeler’s book. And Cisco that is capable of penetrating any area, that speaks a whole bunch
Wheeler started talking about how these implants work, and how of different languages, that speaks ancient languages. Sanskrit,
they leave a person blind from one eye. Well guess what? My for example. How many people in this world know how to read
friend was blind from one eye. Sanskrit fluently, huh?
And it started talking about tortures and how, coincidentally, it BR: Right.
would have been said that they had a car accident or motorcycle
accident. And you start piecing these things together and you RS: It’s pretty bizarre, you know?
start realizing at which stages do they get the heavy levels of
programming. KC: And is this person still alive?
Then I started knowing more about the family. And I don’t RS: Ah, here’s the really interesting thing. We can get to that
remember if it was his grandfather or his great-grandfather, is one part. He got up one morning. He went out and had breakfast. And
of the biggest drug lords ever in South America. And, you know, about 10 a.m. in the morning he said he was a little bit sleepy. He
that’s fascinating, because you don’t trace it by his two last went to sleep. He was found, allegedly, and I say allegedly found
names, but you get it through his mother’s mother’s last name. dead, four hours later. But his body was heavily decomposed.
You get the connection to the great-grandparents, and who these
people are. KC: Ah. God.
Then we start asking things about the family, about the mother, RS: Now, bodies don’t get heavily decomposed in four hours. I
the mother that disappeared. Raised by other alleged family mean, four hours... a body doesn’t get heavily decomposed.
members. You know, all these pieces.
KC: Jesus.
And, you know, father’s murder, his uncle’s murder, the other
one’s murder. And you keep on going down the list of all these RS: Yet his body was found there heavily decomposed, so I have
other people you start hearing, in the course of knowing someone a big questioning. Allegedly he died from a heart attack. I knew
and becoming friends with him. And you start reading Cisco him quite well. There was no heart attack. This guy went out, you
Wheeler’s book. And you start connecting it, one after the other, know, we have climbed mountains, three thousand feet nonstop.
and the other. And you get 10, 15, 20 connections. He had no problem with his heart.
KC: But why are you telling us this? BR: And he was a fairly young guy when he died?
RS: I’m telling you this because I think there are people out RS: Yeah. 34 years old. What a coincidence! It’s also the age
there that may have family members, that may have lovers, that that it’s spoken of that these people are eliminated.
are under these circumstances. And there are people like him that
are waking up of this programming and want to get out of it. KC: How long ago did he die?
And they may think that they’re crazy, that they’re mad, that RS: About 2, 3 years ago. And I’ve always had the feeling that
there’s something bad, wrong, with their brains, that they’re who was there dead, and who was put away, was one of his
physically ill, and in reality they are not. There are people that doubles, and that this fellow is not dead. I think he was too, too,
may start waking up in the middle of the night and having too damn valuable.
memories of things that happened to them. And they’ll think
they’re going crazy. They’re not. They are not going crazy. I got to observe his next-door neighbor. Even though in a poor
neighborhood, this huge building, erected in front of his house
BR: Mm hm. just to monitor him. I mean, from the top of his house I could see
a part of the other building, and I saw a huge amount of
RS: If you have one of these people as a lover, or a family communication equipment. And we’re talking a third-world
member... These people need help. They need help. If they are country. There’s no need for that kind of equipment.
programmed and start waking up, things start getting really,
really, really nasty, down to the point that they will commit And the people that were going in, from different countries, and
suicide or they will be killed. in this particular case, particularly from Japan, which hasn’t
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made any sense to me. But those people were there just to two [US state] governors. And it was rather interesting. He just
monitor this guy, monitoring left and right, all the time, you picked up the phone, called them up. And he was rather rude and
know, feed him a lot of the circumstances. They live in a bubble. disrespectful to these people on the phone. And just told them to
And I was a problem in that bubble. They are guided inside the meet with him immediately.
bubble.
And the next thing I know, we’re walking in an airport, and we’re
KC: Yeah. OK. But, you know, I have to say that this doesn’t meeting with these fellows, you know? Just having a little casual
make sense unless we know more about you. Because I have to chat, you know? So he proved to me what his abilities were and
say that you have a role here that you’re not revealing, and that what he could do.
your background is very interesting.
I played it wisely. I took some advice that was given to me. And
RS: Well, my background. I probably have my own... being an 18-year-old, you have a choice. You can act very
intelligent like I was, or you could start acting pretty damn
KC: Who were you working for? You worked for somebody in stupid.
the past. Did you work for the DEA?
So I started showing him my bad side, you know: alcohol, and
RS: No, I’ve never worked for any government institution at all. getting drunk, and being irresponsible, and never being on time
I have worked for many large corporations, many of the top 100 or anything, disrespectful, and all the bad things an 18-year-old
computer companies, but I’ve never, ever... I’ve always made it a could show. So he lost interest in me.
point to never do anything that can be used for a military
application. So I’ve never worked in anything military, or for the And I don’t know what would have been if I would have
government, for that matter. accepted or not. But one thing that I knew: I wasn’t ready for
that. It most definitely was going way, way, way above my head
KC: OK. Now, Bill had said they tried to recruit you at a young at the time. I don’t think even right now any of us are ready for
age. such power and corruption and everything that goes along with it.
RS: Yes. That’s happened throughout my life. And I think it’s a And throughout my life, I’ve been... For example, I don’t know if
different story, but we can talk about that. Throughout my life, you guys ever heard abouttwo submarines that were found on the
many scenarios have happened which put big question marks for Colombian border? You never heard about those?
me, and I don’t have the answers.
BR: No.
I stand out in many ways. For example, I had completed the
equivalent of a Master’s Degree in Engineering by the time that I RS: There was two submarines found a few years ago. I don’t
was 16 years old. So, it’s an unusual thing for a 16-year-old to remember how many years ago, 4, 5, 6 years ago. They were
have that level of education. Even though I... You know, I have found on the coast of Colombia. One had an estimated billion
many accomplishments in my life, so I know I stand out in... dollars in cocaine in it. And the other submarine was empty.
Sometimes, I think I said to Bill, you know, I feel like I have a Well, 20 years ago, I was invited to design those submarines.
mark somewhere, you know, an identifier or something, that I And again, you know, I know I stand out in my field, but it’s still
attract these people as a magnet. Because many times throughout quite a surprise that I was singled out and invited to be part of
my life there have been these folks that have come into my life, that team to design those submarines.
including one that is now... now I can put a name on it. They call
it the Economic Hit Man. And I was shocked when I read in the newspaper that two of
those submarines were found. Now, you can only ask yourself,
And I had the same scenario. When I was 18 years old, I had an what would happen to the engineers of those submarines the day
invention, and I put it out in a show. And this fellow approached those two submarines were found on that Colombian beach? You
me. And he started becoming friends, and he started coming over know?
to my house.
BR: Was there something special about those submarines? I
And after a few months he just sat me down one day and says, mean, they weren’t regular submarines. Right?
you know: I’m an old man. I have cancer. I don’t know how
much longer I’m gonna live. And you see this little book that I’ve RS: Oh, no, no, no.
got? This little telephone book? And he says: It’s encrypted. He
says: I can call anyone in the world. And in fact, what I want is BR: Were they small? Miniature?
you to inherit this phone book. I want to give you this power, this
information. RS: I don’t know. I don’t know the size these things ended up
being. But the idea was that you’d take ’em to the coast of the
And so he put me to a test: Name three people, three top States. And you’d take ’em on the bottom of a ship. And any time
government officials anywhere in the world, and we will be you got any problem or something, you’d let go of ’em. They
having lunch with them within 24 hours. And I don’t care who could sit on the bottom of the ocean for a long time. And later on,
you name. It could be the president of any country, anyone you they would just navigate themselves right into the back of a
want. house through the canals, you know. Like in Florida. There it’s
all full of canals, and there’s houses. They have huge mansions.
I didn’t name any presidents, but I did name... And we didn’t take And just quietly we’ll go over there.
it to the three, we only met with two of them, but I mentioned
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KC: And you had a role in designing them? So anyhow, I used to walk through those buildings, and I found
them really empty, but I noticed thousands and thousands of cars
BR: They were remotely controlled? parked outside. Yet inside you didn’t see that many people.
RS: They were remote-controlled. Yeah. And the lights were just... IBM got into the thing that they told
people that, you know, they were saving energy, and they were
BR: Remote-controlled. OK. going to dim the lights. So anyhow, you walk down these
hallways and you barely had enough light to walk from point A
RS: Fully automatic. to point B.
KC: You had a role in designing them? And you always knew there were cameras everywhere. I mean,
IBM was known to... Even in the bathrooms, watch out what you
RS: I was offered a role in designing these things. talk in the bathrooms. There was plain-clothes security officers
everywhere.
KC: But you didn’t accept it?
You know, to go into certain labs, you have to swipe your card;
RS: No. I declined that one. It was in the same shape. It was there’s two doors; you have to sign a log; you have to look in the
informal. I got invited to these parties and to meet these people. cameras so security identifies you. You know, there’s tons of
Well, I wasn’t a very pleasant person. So... [laughs] they decided security protocols.
that I was not what they wanted. And so, throughout life, I’ve had
a whole bunch of these scenarios. BR: Even if you left your desk to go have a pee, you’d go
through all that.
BR: The strange experience you had with IBM. Is that what you
were saying? RS: Oh my goodness! [laughs] You had to turn off the computer,
which in itself is the worst thing you want to tell someone using a
RS: Yes. A very bizarre thing that happened to me: I was computer is to turn off the computer. I mean, it just takes forever
working at IBM. And it was a huge, huge, huge park, in fact so to boot these things up. You had turn it off. You had to lock the
huge... There are a couple of bizarre things that happened. power switch with a key. You had to take everything you were
working on, all the documents you were working with, put it
I didn’t like the job, and I didn’t give a damn about it, and I inside of your drawer, lock the drawer. You had to sign a log.
couldn’t care less if I would be fired. And I was working as an You had to...
outside consultant. I didn’t like the job from day one. I didn’t
care anything about it, so getting fired wasn’t anything that had KC: But that’s the top secret part of IBM.
any value to me.
RS: Yeah. But it’s ridiculous, because a lot of the stuff we were
So when I got in, and I started driving in the property, I knew the working on there, I don’t consider it top secret at all, you know.
police did not have jurisdiction inside of the property. So I would But anyhow, those were their protocols.
drive my car every day just a little bit faster. And I think there
was a point there that I reached about 130, 140 mph, driving So anyhow, you walk through this place and you find it kind of
inside the park. empty. And I got there to the guy that I was reporting to. And
these are bizarre things. I don’t have explanations for them.
So that kind of gives you the idea how big of a park we’re
talking. It was just immense. And I would swear every day that I And he tells me, you know: We made a mistake, and I highly
would get out of the car, you know, Security would come over apologize, and I really beg you to please don’t tell anyone, but I
and say: You are fired. Out of here. You know... [laughs] But it don’t need you. I don’t have any work for you. So I tell you what.
never happened. You can go to your office, you know. We got you a really nice
office. You got your computer there. You have access to anything
KC: And where was this? and everything you want to there.
RS: In North Carolina. I think it’s the Research Triangle in If you want any books? Is there anything that I can help you
North Carolina. There was another one in South Carolina. with? Let our secretary know. But don’t call asking me for work
or for anything to do, because I have nothing for you. And I
So, when I got in my office... They had all the consultants go in would very, very, very much appreciate if you stick around and
through one security checkpoint, at one end of all these buildings. don’t make me look bad. We’re paying you real good. You know,
But my office happened to be in the other part. And that was take your time off. Do whatever you want. You know?
about a 20, 25-minute walk going through all these buildings.
And one of the things that I always noticed... So it was a pretty uncomfortable situation. [laughter]
IBM allegedly made there, or used to make, photocopy machines So I go to my office. I turn on the... These were the days of the
-- which is a big question, why they got out of that business. But mainframes, you know. And I connect to my, you know, to my
they got out of a lot of businesses. And it kind of leads you to see terminal there. And I find out that my terminal can go anywhere.
that IBM is just a cover-up for other operations. I can go into any government agency, anything in the network.
Before people even heard the word internet, internet existed. And
it was a network primarily of IBM, a university, and government,
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anything and everything, military bases. And I would just type I mean this entire room was like going to the top world show on
names after names in there. microscopes. Microscopes from everywhere in the world. You
name it, they had one there. If you could name a microscope, I’m
There weren’t too many directories. It wasn’t easy to search for willing to bet they had it, including three electron microscopes in
things. You had to assume a lot of things and, you know, create the back of the room. And I was the only one there.
your own lists. But I got into all sorts of different places. Some
things were a little bit interesting here and there. It was rather And he said: Which one you want to use? And I’m like: Which
interesting to go through all these computers. one is the easiest one to use here? [laughs] So I pick one that I
could figure what to do with it.
Anyhow, I had my own side projects. So one day I needed to use
a microscope. And the microscope we had in our lab was an He says: How long do you need it for? I say: Half an hour. And
inexpensive, simple microscope, and I could barely see he says: I’ll be back for you in half an hour.
something there. And I knew it was there, so I knew that with a
better microscope I could see it. And I figured: I suppose So I stood there. And I know that place had cameras all over. So I
someone around here must have a better microscope. just acted like I belonged there, stuck my head on the
microscope. I used it. Ironically, it didn’t work for the thing that I
So I asked one of the guys that I allegedly and supposedly had to wanted to look at. [laughs] Ah... the things in life!
be working with. I said: Hey mate, where can I get another
microscope? He said: Why don’t you ask that guy in the corner And I left there. I went back to my office, and I mind my own
that you always say hi to in the morning? And that by itself, you business. I never asked any questions or anything.
know, just kind of like -- How does he know I say hi to that guy?
That by itself was rather interesting, you know? But all of these things pieced together... understanding this fellow
that I was telling you guys about, and understanding that he truly
I go over to the guy. He knows me quite well. I don’t know him, was a victim of programming, that he had been tortured. Tracing
but he knows me. And I say: Can I get a microscope? He says: back through his family, he probably had been tortured when he
Oh yeah. Sure. No problem. Just come with me. was inside his mother; that his mother was deprived of raising
him. And that he was in an environment that was totally
So we go to the elevator, and there’s a few people standing there controlled and totally programmed.
in the elevator. And he says: No, we’ll wait. We’ll take the next
one that’s empty. We take the next elevator that’s empty, and And I hope he is alive somewhere and well. Perhaps he is.
when the door closes, he punches... On the floor numbers, he Perhaps he’s not. I don’t know. Only, maybe in the future I’ll run
punches a sequence. into him someday. But I’ve got a feeling this fellow is not dead.
And that elevator, instead of going up -- which is all that I knew; KC: So... have you been threatened?
I thought we were on the first floor -- that thing went down. I
couldn’t tell how much, but it went down several floors. And RS: Have I been threatened? No. None whatsoever. Yet, at the
when we went down, it opened the door, and a long, long, long same time...
hallway. I mean, that thing looked like something out of an X-
File, just like out of a crazy movie, you know? It was long. Huge. KC: Are you protected by some people?
It looked like an eternity.
RS: I don’t know. Maybe I am. Maybe I’m not. Maybe at the
And I’m starting to sweat, because I know that [laughter] I’m not spiritual level I’m being protected. There’s been, like a lot I’ve
supposed to be there and I don’t have clearances for these things. mentioned, I’ve been too damn close too many times to a bullet.
And I have no idea what’s going on.
And when I was two, three years old, there was an attempt of
And I hear all sorts of animals... animals by the tens of thousands kidnapping me. And it’s a whole scenario that’s quite bizarre. I
in there. And as we walk by, you know, I says to myself: Be cool. come from a very, very poor family, so there’s really no reason to
I’m gonna play this one cool. So I look. One of the doors was kidnap a poor child, you know?
open, and there’s thousands of animals in cages in there. I can’t
say for what, or not even what kind of animals, because I wasn’t Nonetheless, that day I was protected. The entire neighborhood
about to stop there and look like this was something new to me, got filled with police of every sort. And I remember that
you know? I just kept on walking. experience quite vividly. I guess maybe when we’re really close
to death for real, you know, even if we’re two, three years old,
And the rest of the doors were closed. We got to one huge door -- somehow these things get memorized in our minds vividly.
very, very large doors. I can’t remember exactly, about five foot
wide, each door, and about a good eleven, twelve feet tall doors. KC: You were actually born in South America?
Very large doors.
RS: No. I was not born in South America. And then, 5, 6, 7 years
We open up and there’s this huge room. It looks like a football old, there’s a little crack in the window on the car. And my dad
field in there. He turns on the lights, and there’s about three, four, went to fix the window a few days later, and he finds a bullet,
very, very long tables. Well, there were tables stacked one next to you know, a bullet that could have been in my head rather easily.
the other. And I’m talking LONG. These things were, I don’t
know, at least probably 200, 300 feet long, and they’re filled with I’m sitting in my house years later and I get up go to have a
microscopes. drink. For whatever reason, I got thirsty. I went to the kitchen. I
come back, sit back on my sofa, and I notice that the window’s
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open. There’s air coming in. So I go inspect what’s going on, and Then comes a sports car that... Something didn’t fit, because
there’s a bullet right behind me, in the seat of the chair. there’s two guys in it and the guys were about 40 years old. They
don’t fit with this super-charged, huge tire... It was something
Another time I found two bullets in my front door. like a Camaro or something like that, you know. It just didn’t fit.
A bizarre thing: I found a couple once, trying to break in. I’m But again, these guys drive very slow, which, someone in a sports
watching TV. I’m sitting there watching TV, and they’re car like that, doesn’t make much sense either. They drive very,
breaking in my door! It’s just a bizarre thing, you know? Like: very slow, and they’re also looking at the opposite side of the
What do you want? And they keep on going at it, you know, until street.
I went out...
So my friend and I, we’re now looking at the opposite side of the
I’ve always been a gun enthusiast, so I pull out a shotgun. And street. And we’re like: What can possibly be so interesting about
when they heard that, then that got the message. I mean, they the wall on the other side? [laughs] And we’re looking and
weren’t going to walk out alive if they walked in. looking and looking. And, as we’re looking over there, just
curious what must be on the other side -- there’s a bust or
I’m sitting in a hotel. Two guys break in the door. It just happens something we’re not seeing, you know? -- the bus shows up.
to be that I’ve always enjoyed guns, so I happen to be cleaning a
couple guns and I just aim it at the door. They just break in the My friend goes in the bus and he goes and sits down. And, as I’m
door of the hotel, and they say: Sorry! And they just left so damn coming in... I’ve never been in a bus in my life; not much buses,
fast. It’s a miracle that no one died that day. you know. I’m trying to figure out how much, you know, how to
pay, a dollar, or 25 cents, or whatever it was.
You know, these things have happened. You know, I’m on the
street just minding my own business, got out of my home in the And here’s this black fellow, black African fellow, driver. And I
morning. And I’m looking through the side mirror, and I’m swear, if a black man can turn white, that man turned white, you
looking two cars back. And there’s a guy holding a gun with both know? Well, I don’t mean really white, but I mean white-scared.
hands and looking at me. He’s holding it on the side. He was a
passenger and I could tell he had a gun in his hand. And he had And he starts shaking all over and he says: P-p-p-please! Don’t
his eyes fixed on me. move fast! Don’t do anything stupid. Don’t, don’t, don’t move
fast! Don’t do anything stupid. Slow. Slow. Slow. Don’t do
And all these things happened so many times that I just became anything stupid!
totally uncomfortable about living in the States.
I’m like: What the hell is it with this bus driver? You know? [Bill
RS’s colleague: Tell them about Washington, DC. laughs] He’s like begging me, and he’s trembling and he’s
shaking, and he’s about to go totally out of control begging me to
RS: That’s a crazy, bizarre thing, you know? I’m on L Street. I not... Don’t move fast! Easy! Take it easy! No trouble here!
don’t remember. L and... I forgot; it was so many years ago. L Please be easy!
and 17 or whatever. And I was pretty young back then. I was
between 16 and 18. And I have a friend, and my friend says to And then he finally says something intelligent. He says: Very
me... He had read all about the bus system. And he was, for slowly, very slowly, take a look out the window. Take a look out
whatever bizarre reason, he was excited about the bus system in the window. Very, very, very slowly! Don’t move fast! Don’t
New York. move fast. Very slowly!
It’s never excited me, you know, bus systems. [Kerry laughs] I’d [laughs] It was something like right out of a movie. Right? I
prefer going in a limousine or something else, but he wanted to don’t know what’s going on. I’m cool, you know? I’m totally
take the bus. And he insisted and insisted that he had the routes, relaxed. So the advice seemed wise, [big laughter all round] for
and he wanted to take that bus. And the guy was from Argentina. whatever unknown reason.
So anyhow, we were tourists there. I said: What the hell? We’ll
take the bus. So, I bend my knees very slowly, and I look out the window. And
I go: Holy shit!
You know, it was 11. The bus was supposed to go by at 11 p.m.
We waited there till midnight. And, you know, we’re sitting there There are guys that had gotten on top of the bus. I mean, these
and I see this taxi comes by. The taxi looks like he may want a people were trying to do this quite well. They had jumped on top
fare. But the bizarre thing is, the taxi is looking in the opposite of the bus, and they were aiming at me with guns. And the
direction of where we’re sitting. We’re sitting on the sidewalk. bizarre thing is, a couple of them had a laser, but these lasers
And he’s looking in the opposite direction. were green. And apparently green lasers were the first ones to be
developed for that kind of thing.
He goes really slow. And the same taxi goes around the
neighborhood, and he does the same thing. This time, he drives And they’re aiming at me from everywhere! The building across
much slower, but he’s looking in the opposite direction. It seems the street -- they busted the windows, and there were guys aiming
if he wanted to get a ride, he’d be looking at us, you know? rifles. And the taxis -- they shut off all the taxis. They were on
top of the taxis, and the sports car. And they’re aiming with rifles
Anyhow, about three, four taxis went by. And the same thing -- at me from every location -- from the back, from the front, from
they’re looking in the opposite direction in the street. everywhere. And this guy was giving me some good advice here!
[laughter]
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So these two guys come in the front door. And they were the ones people might make a worse mistake. So I suggest you just get the
from the sports car, the two guys that were about 40, 30-some, 40 hell out of Washington, DC.
years old. And, you know, the only intelligent thing that came out
of my mouth was, like: Can I see some ID? You know? [laughs] Bizarre, crazy thing! Like, God! You know, how can me, here,
you know, 16, 18 years old, be confused by some guy that’s
One of them, you know, he had a big chest. He just puffs up his gonna kill five politicians? Not one, not two, not three, but five...
chest. And, well, you could see that he was carrying a huge piece. which is a kind of weird thing, the number five, you know.
And at that moment it looked like the biggest gun in the world. I
mean, it looked like something out of a Clint Eastwood movie. It So, all of these crazy things have happened throughout my life,
might have just been a little .38, but it looked huge to me. Hm? that I would assume that they connect. Somehow.
And he reached very slowly to his other pocket, on the other side KC: But I don’t understand. If they have the guns on you, and all
of the gun, and he pulled out some ID, and he showed it. And... I this kind of thing, did they ask you for ID?
don’t remember exactly. I remember one said Secret Police. And
the other fellow, I’m pretty sure he said CIA. But it could have RS: Nope.
been FBI or something else.
KC: How did they know that you were the wrong guy?
I says: What do you want? And he said: Step out of the bus very
slow. And that’s what I did. I stepped out of the bus very, very RS: Well, I guess when they saw me face to face... I mean, come
slow. on, I’m a 16, 18-year-old. I mean... I don’t know.
And the minute that I set foot on the sidewalk, my friend comes KC: Yeah, but you don’t have that many people rounded up, to
out -- really loyal friend, I must say -- and he said: I’m with him. pull guns, unless you’re absolutely positive who you are.
And they almost shove him back in the bus. And it’s: I’m with
him. So they finally let him come out, and they told the bus driver RS: Right! You would assume so, right? [laughs]
to leave. He leaves.
KC: It takes a lot of time to do an operation like that. So they
And then, all of a sudden, one of these fellows makes a hand must have known what you looked like. How many years ago
signal and they all start leaving. Everyone starts leaving. All the was this? Oh... quite a few years.
guns start going away. Everyone starts jumping in their taxis.
Everyone starts disappearing like nothing has ever happened RS: [laughs] Quite a few years. Right! Really bizarre thing. You
here. And both of them turned their back on me and they started know, that scenario went through my head for many years. And
walking towards their car. one of the things that I thought it was, well, maybe it was like a
trainee exercise. You know, they just pick anyone and, you know,
So I went and tapped one on the shoulder and I said: Excuse me, just play out a trainee exercise on anyone. Screw it. It’s
fellow. You just almost made Swiss cheese out of me back there. Washington, DC. They’re trying to protect the president, etcetera,
Not to mention you might have gotten a few yourself, you know. so just do it, you know?
What the hell is this all about? Don’t you think you owe me an
explanation? I mean, you almost killed me. I mean, almost. So So, all my life, in many times I’ve had a tour of many of these
what is going on? little secret things, things that no one is supposed to know. And I
don’t know why. But when I start putting them all together, you
And he looks at the other one. They look at one another, and then can obviously see they’re not coincidence. There’s something to
he says: Well, I guess... it, you know?
And I says: Yes, you owe me an explanation. BR: Yes.
And he says: Well, you see, there’s this guy that we got you KC: Well, what were you doing? I don’t understand. They give
confused for. And this is bizarre. I’m quoting word for word of you a job at IBM, you sit there in an office, you can do whatever
what each guy said, which makes no sense to me. you want, and you have access to whatever you want. And...
He said there’s a guy that had killed four politicians previously, RS: I don’t know!
in the last weeks or whatever. I don’t remember how much he
said. But he said that tonight, he was going to kill five of them by KC: ...you made your own job at that point?
midnight. And you just happen to look like him.
RS: No! No, no. I did nothing.
And I go: Mm hm. And I go: Is there anything else you have to
say? KC: Why’d you need a microscope?
He says: You from here? RS: That was one of my own side jobs.
And I says: No, I’m not. KC: Like what?
And he says: Well, I suggest that you take a very early first flight RS: I did work for other companies, making extra money, you
out of here. If you have no business around here, take the next know. It had nothing to do with them. But these bizarre things
flight out of here. Because we made a mistake, but maybe the next happened to me time and time after time in my life. You know? I
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have been paid, somewhere between 8 and 10 years of my life, in BR: But you were kind of there on-call to do admin work, but
my career, for doing nothing. I literally mean... I’m talking doing you didn’t have a lot to do.
absolutely nothing. I have just gotten a paycheck for doing
nothing. KC: Supposedly. But I had nothing to do. Nothing. And I always
used to think to myself: Why am I here? They don’t need me. You
KC: What did you do when you did nothing, though? know. Why did they have me come to work? You know.
RS: Study. RS: You know, like at IBM, what I first did is I’d cruise all the
databases of knowledge about computers, to improve myself.
KC: Because I have some similar experience in which I would
go... KC: And I would...
RS: Studying. I would spend my entire life studying. RS: At least I felt that... my moral: At least I’m getting paid. My
ass will learn something at least about their own things. You
KC: I would go to a job and there was nothing to do. So I would know? Later I brought in a library of books. I would buy books
surf the net. And I assumed they were watching. They wanted to after books -- about books, and computer tie-ins, most of them.
know what I was looking for. And I would study those books because I felt, you know, at least
they’re paying me for this, you know. I might as well... But this
RS: That’s a possibility. kept on and on and on, you know?
KC: They were observing me. A scenario that I had in another IBM building... And this was... I
don’t know whatever became... It would be interesting to know
RS: That’s a very good possibility. what became of that building. It was in Florida. This huge
building. Immense. Very impressive building. These buildings
KC: So you must have done... Like you said, you looked around. are really ultra-safe. These things could go through a pretty heavy
You did this, you did that. earthquake, etcetera.
RS: It never occurred to me that I would be a guinea pig that And one guy walks in to me. And he’s a neighbor. Now, I party
they were just observing. And that is a very good possibility. with this guy. We’re... You know the kind of people, we’ll get
together for Christmas and New Year’s Eve and dinner, you
RS’s colleague: Tell us about the security of your access. know? He’s your average Joe. I mean, there’s nothing interesting
about this fellow, you know? Or even about myself.
RS: Yeah, I’ll tell you about that in a second. But you know,
right this moment, I’m piecing some things together. It has never But one day he walks over to my office. He says: Hey, come with
crossed my mind that I may be the one being observed. It has me. There are things -- THINGS, you know, plural -- that you
never, ever, ever crossed my mind. need to see and you need to know.
And you mentioned something the other day about someone here I says: OK.
proposing a government coup. And, you know, they come and
tell me. And I said: Why in hell are you telling me? I got nothing. And he says: Let’s take a walk.
You know? I don’t give a damn if you do or if you don’t! You
know? And I says: Man, we’re gonna get fired out of here in a
heartbeat. You know? These people are probably gonna press
And you propose that maybe it’s just to see what’s my reaction to charges. I’m never gonna hear the end of this shit.
it? And now that you say this... See, I had this job. I get this job,
and for five years I do absolutely nothing. I get a paycheck in the And he keeps on telling me: Relax. Nothing’s gonna happen. And
mail. I never worked. I never, ever, ever, ever worked. I just got then he says: I KNOW that nothing’s gonna happen.
the paycheck in the mail. And it gave me the opportunity to study
and study and study, and just keep on doing my own thing, you BR: Is this one of these situations where you would have had to
know? close down and sign out and lock up, and he’s saying don’t worry
about it?
KC: I did the same thing.
RS: No, no. He’s saying there’s no worry about we cruising
RS: You’ve had the same scenario? Amazing. around IBM.
KC: Yes. I did that at JPL. BR: OK.
RS: Amazing that someone will pay you a salary... RS: I mean, IBM. It’s a secure place. Who knows what they’re
working on there? You’re not supposed to be walking around. I
KC: It happened to me all the time. mean, specifically, they give you a nice little long speech when
you start working there about the security issues.
RS: It happened to you all the time?
I’ve seen people there fired within a couple hours, you know? I
KC: Yeah. Yeah. saw a guy get three pink slips in two, three hours. Boom. Fired.
You know? They just started work and they haven’t even been
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there... It wasn’t even: Oh, we’ll give you a break because this is the Chinese could ever get their hands in there, you know? And
the first day. No. You’re out of here. You broke security three then I remembered. When I was talking to you, I remembered. I
times. You went to take a leak. You didn’t lock the door. You said: Oh! Damn! I remembered that whole aisle of Chinese
didn’t lock the computer. You’re out of here. In one day, you working at IBM by the thousands, you know?
know?
There’s another little interesting scenario. You can verify this
And it’s three pink slips in your life there. It’s not even, you very easily on the internet. There is approximately 2 million
know, they’ll reset it every three months or a year, or whatever. engineers unemployed -- USA-born engineers, top notch,
No, no. It’s three. That’s it. You can be there 10 years, you get unemployed. At the same time, if you look at the government
the third one, you’re out. You know? statistics...
So anyhow, we start... And I didn’t give a damn about the job BR: There’s how many?
either because I wasn’t doing anything. I was just totally bored,
you know, and just... enough is enough, you know? RS: I’d say close to 2 million. Over a million, but I don’t know
the number. But if you look at the US immigration statistics,
So we start walking down the hallways and it’s: Let’s check out you’re going to find almost exactly the same number of
this lab. And he said: Your badge will open the door. foreigners -- Indians, Chinese, Russians -- working in the States.
And I said: You know these damn things are programmed only Now do you wonder anymore, how these things got developed?
for the places we can go. First you wonder if there’s any truth to the story, but then, when
you hear other pieces, you start saying: Yeah, there’s truth to the
And he says: No. Your badge can go anywhere in IBM. In fact, story.
your badge can go anywhere in IBM in the entire world.
Another interesting thing that happened: I was working near the
And I says: Yeah, Right. So, just to prove him wrong, I stick in Fort Lauderdale airport. And there’s a cafeteria there, you know,
the badge. Beep! Door opens. I says: I betcha the next one is not. for pilots to go in and have a snack, and actually have some good
Beep! I look at the camera, and I says: Now Security is on its sandwiches and have a Coke or whatever. And we used to go
way! You know? [laugher] Walk around the lab, take a look, you there often.
know. Nothing.
And there’s a guy there sitting at the table that he wants to show
Get out... Well, let’s go to the next one, you know. And he comes me, because he worked with me in some other projects. By the
with me. And so we went from labs to labs, doors to doors, every way, always, as I mentioned, I’ve never worked in anything
security thing. military. And he says: I want to show you how the planes are
coming in and out, remote-controlled. So I must have seen in that
The only thing that I found interesting was there’s an enormous -- airport a hundred planes go in and out, full remote control.
and this no one was supposed to know about it -- was an
enormous amount of Hindus working at IBM, secretly working Now, how do you tell they’re remote-controlled? They have a
there. There’s no one... the Americans didn’t know about it. And jerky movement. They might jerk to the left and they jerk up and
Chinese people. Huge number of them, by the hundreds. Not down, but it’s a distinguishable jerk. And the jerk is because the
hundreds -- thousands were there. servos... the technology in some cases had not developed to do
more smooth. The software and everything takes time, so they
You would walk down hallways after hallways, all Hindu’s auto-correct themselves too quick, and the plane shows a jerk.
names, and there was like the Hindu section. There was another
section that were Chinese. And they were there with their names KC: Mm hm.
on the doors and everything. Just walk by and say hi to a few of
them. RS: And also, a lot of these planes, they didn’t have any
windows in it, or there are some that have very dark windows. So
Stuck my badge everywhere. I went from building to building to you can tell that... Plus you see the plane park and sit there for an
building. I said: That’s it, man. This is not even going to be fired. hour and no one comes out of it, you know? [laughter]
They’re just going to execute us here! [laughter] And then I kept
on working there for months, you know, collecting a paycheck. KC: Yes.
Just paychecks rolling in, you know.
RS: So there’s some obvious things about these planes being
KC: OK. But... remote-controlled.
RS: There’s something I wanted to say about the Chinese. We do Then we look at the Twin Towers and wonder whether they were
wonder... and this is another little conspiracy piece here that I’d remote-controlled or not. So, you know, you got the answer there
like to add for your audience. We do wonder, this whole thing we about those remote-controlled planes.
recently heard, and it’s all over the internet, about the Chinese
being able to control Air Force One, and the Chinese placing... So, I don’t know. Throughout my life I’ve been... Bits and pieces
here and there are shown to me. And it’s like, for some reason
RS’s colleague: Back doors in the chips? I’ve been guided to see these things. Maybe it’s for today, to say
all this here. I don’t know. [laughs]
RS: Yes, back doors in the chips. And six nuclear cruise missiles
and a B-52 and all that. Even to me, the question was, well, how
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BR: Didn’t you say also that you had seen, on some of the 9/11 any vehicle anywhere and that was what it was for. And it was an
videos -- the public sector videos, the media videos -- you saw ultra, ultra, ultra high secret project. And we’re sitting there on
some signs that some of those planes were remote-controlled? the internet, and I says: What did you just say this thing was?
And I type it out.
RS: I was sitting in a restaurant. Here in South America,
people... they don’t, I guess because a lot of people don’t have And this guy nearly fainted when he saw that there was
TVs at home, or whatever, or they’re totally hypnotized by the something on the internet about it. And then he went on reading it
TV, but every restaurant has a TV. And they’re always playing all, you know? And he came back for several days, you know.
the TV. It’s always on. In fact, you have to beg ’em to turn it off. That is a lie. That’s not true. That’s not it. You know. I worked
on that thing. [laughs] But he was even surprised at the name,
And it was a restaurant. It was full. It was mid-day. There was a that it popped up on the internet.
lot of noise in there. And I just happened to look up at the screen.
And, you know, I see the Twin Towers, and I see this plane, and I BR: That’s cool.
see the jerky movement, you know? And then it hits the Tower.
RS: Why he called me and had to tell me, I don’t know.
I think it’s a movie. So I tell my friend that I’m sitting there with,
I says: Gosh, you know, what a crappy movie. I mean, couldn’t KC: What about your parents. Are they alive?
they even re-do it again, you know, move the strings a little bit
slower or something? I mean, just re-shoot it again or something BR: Excuse me here. I have to leave.
and make a better movie? What a crappy movie.
RS’s colleague: I’ve got about five more things that we might
And as I’m saying that, there’s people congregating around the talk about.
TV. And they start raising the volume. And that’s when I realized
that this wasn’t a movie, that this was a live shot. And then I BR: But just one little thing here. I just want to say, this sounds
remember the little jerky movements of the planes. And I said: like The Truman Show! [laughter] You were talking about
Ah. movies earlier on.
And I said it right there to him, you know. Within minutes, I said: RS: Well, I’ve got a few things that I want to share with you. I
Oh my goodness! That is for real and it was done with a remote- overheard you say you were going to meet with David Icke.
controlled plane. And I said: I know where they designed those Right?
planes. Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I saw it with my own eyes.
That’s where they designed the damn planes -- and so confident KC: Yes.
to fly a remote-controlled plane inside a city.
RS: And I want to tell you how I came across meeting David
KC: When I saw the 9/11... Icke. And, if you want to hear just for a minute. I was coming
back from an astral trip. I’m laying like...
RS: You noticed that?
KC: You’re coming back from a -- what -- trip?
KC: Well, no. No. I don’t know anything about that kind of
stuff. But I thought it was a movie. RS: An astral trip. I assumed you already know what an astral
trip is.
RS: Oh, you thought it was a movie.
KC: Yeah. But most people don’t say it casually like that. That’s
KC: Yes. interesting. OK. The plot thickens.
BR: We have been told by somebody... One of our RS: Well, I assumed you know what it is.
whistleblowers, Henry Deacon, worked on the remote control
apparatus for those planes. So he said they were remote- KC: Yes.
controlled planes.
RS: So I don’t have to introduce the astral, right? So I’m coming
RS: Yeah. Well, there’s so many people... Another place that I back and... Let’s see. I’m coming like this side, at this angle, into
worked, another guy came over one day and he had the itch to tell my body, like this over here. And as I’m over here, guess what I
me. I don’t know why people have this itch to tell me things, you cross? A lizard!
know? Because this guy... The best way to describe it, he had an
itch to tell me. He didn’t know me very long, but he just had to And oh my goodness! If you want something to really scare you!
tell me. I mean, you look one of those things in the eye, it’s enough... I
didn’t sleep for about a week!
And he had to tell me he worked on the, what’s it called...
HAARP? That he had worked on... And that’s the first time I And I just happened to cross right in front of him. I suppose it
ever heard of that. And it was a top secret project, and I’ll tell you was a “him”. And it was about, gosh, six and a half or seven feet
what he said. He wasn’t totally... I’m not sure if he was totally tall, probably 250 pounds, more muscles than you can... Like
sure he knew what it was for. muscle from everywhere. But it’s a lizard!
But he said that HAARP was able to track any vehicle anywhere It’s like when you watch the Star Trek shows and you see one of
in the world, that it had no limit of tracking ability. It could track these lizard creatures. This one didn’t look like anything in Star
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Trek but it would nonetheless fit that description. And I didn’t

even know what to call it. I’m using the word “lizard” now. BR: A great thing to share with our audience. And others might
have pieces. This is one of the important things -- others might
And, as I come into my body, I’m looking at it and it is looking at have pieces.
me. And I get inside my body. And I open up my physical eyes,
and I stand up in my bed, and it’s here in 3D, in this reality. It’s [Bill leaves]
in front of me in my bedroom, face to face, for about a second.
RS: You know, another thing, that after I learned more about this
I swear my heart stopped. Because that thing, just by looking at and I started realizing what a program victim is, I now have
you, I think it’s like probably enough to kill you, just... the look is identified about a dozen. And it’s very despicable what happens.
so intimidating.
And like I said, I have a magnet for it. Somehow I attract it. And
And then it shifted. I suppose it shifted back to the dimension that one of the ones that I attracted was an extremely... a very, very,
it was traveling on and it disappeared. I swear, I didn’t sleep for very young woman that I ended up having a sexual affair with for
weeks after I saw that. a long time, for several years.
But then I went on the internet and I says: You know, maybe I’m And this woman was heavily programmed. I mean very heavily
not the only one that’s seen these things. You know? And I programmed. But this is a low-level programming. She’s
started looking for... snakes. And obviously, the word is kind of programmed as a sexual pet. And somehow I trigger her sexual
obvious, so I pretty quick ran into the word “lizard”. And it didn’t programming. And there’s basically no saying No to a woman
take very long that I connected to David Icke’s website. like that. A woman like that is... On a scale of 1 to 100, she’s
1000 in bed. I mean, she is just... beyond the porno star, beyond
So that’s how I found out about David Icke. And what I’ve read, anything. And it’s just... her sexual abilities are just
all the things about David Icke, connects more pieces of this overwhelming.
fellow, and what are programming victims for, and the whole
long list of things that we’ve heard of. KC: OK. So...
KC: OK. Well, I’ve seen one, too. And I was partly in a RS: At the same time, it’s interesting that this person doesn’t
meditation or something. And I didn’t believe in them. I didn’t enjoy sex. And there was one thing. And, again, these books talk
believe they exist. about it. This woman spends most of the time always pregnant. --
Not from me. I always took caution that that didn’t happen from
RS: Well, after that you do! me. -- And she was always having miscarriages. And her... Even
though she was very pleasant otherwise, her vagina was
KC: It went right by me. [makes noise of quick movement] I was extremely stretched, and it was obvious that that’s how she had
completely amazed. And it had wings. been tortured, how she’d been programmed.
RS: It had wings? And it is amazing to see these people come in and out of different
personalities [snaps fingers] in a fraction of a second. You could
KC: And it was gigantic. sometimes see it happening in a minute’s time. You could see
three personalities come in and out.
RS: If this thing had wings, I was past the point of noticing that.
[laughter] KC: But, how did you know? When did you know that she was
programmed?
KC: I was not about... It was there and it wanted me to see it.
That’s all I know. RS: Programmed? When I started seeing her behavior. You
know, one day she will come in... My goodness, the woman
RS: It wanted you to see it... wanted to rape me in the middle of the city. You know, it was 9
a.m. Monday morning, and she wants to have sex in the car
KC: You see, they’re not all bad. Apparently there are some with parked right in the middle of the street.
these others, good...
You know, it’s not a normal behavior. It is something that is done
RS: I didn’t feel that this thing was bad. for some un-normal reason. It may be fun. It may be a challenge.
It may be interesting. But nonetheless it’s done for some totally
KC: But you wouldn’t want to mess with it, on the other hand. I un-normal behavior, because no one in the right of their mind is
mean... gonna do such things, you know. And it’s...
RS: A creature that can travel between dimensions, you don’t She’s programmed to approach people to get the video, to get the
want to deal with. picture, to do this to someone that they can compromise, you
know.
BR: Yes. That’s true. If you guys continue this conversation, I’m
gonna listen to it immediately, at the first possible moment. KC: Mm hm.
Thank you! It’s been a lot of fun. I have no answers either, but
this is great stuff. RS: Someone you want to get rid of. Someone that is married.
Someone that’s a politician. You unleash a woman like that and...
RS: Just pieces of the puzzle. It’s nearly impossible to say No to a woman like that.
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big deal, though I thought that it was very reckless and

RS’s colleague: And the next day, did she remember it? irresponsible of our government, of the US government, running
remote-controlled planes in that area. What if one of those things
RS: Oh. [laughs] Yeah. The next day, she asks me, she says: You should crash? It would kill a whole bunch of people, you know?
know, I got something to ask you and I hope you don’t get Yet they were pretty damn confident that that wasn’t a problem.
offended by it. Did we have sex? Have we ever had sex together?
But what really caught my attention there is something really
And I was like: Nah, sweetie. No. Your imagination. You know. going on -- and this falls into the category of those things you
So, you could tell these people are horrendous victims, you hear about, conspiracies. And let me regress here a little bit.
know. They can actually perform all these sexual acts and the
next day they didn’t even have a clue about it, and would A long time ago, maybe about 30 years ago, I ran into one of
actually, honestly, be asking whether they had or had not done those so-called underground newspapers. And I was so outraged,
something. that I saved the newspaper to burn it. I mean, I wanted to make
sure that I burned it so it would never end up in the hands of
KC: OK. And you’re saying you had a relationship with this someone else and read such utterly crap against the US
person for several years? government. I mean, that’s how programmed I was to believe the
US government was the best thing in the world.
RS: Yes. I came across her. And, again, I don’t think it was
pointed at me. I am not the type of person that is in politics. Who And I was brought up to... US was the best thing on the planet,
could care less about any compromising photo? I don’t give a you know? Everyone else was evil, bad. Russia, we got a
damn. First of all, I don’t think anyone cares to put my picture in problem. All these other countries are bad, but we were the best.
the news, and, if they do, I really couldn’t care less, you know?
Whether they use it today or they use it 20 years from now, I still And later on throughout life, you know, I’ve been finding bits
couldn’t care less, you know? Because I’m very open-minded and pieces that start confirming the things that that newspaper
about sexual issues, so I’m not the person that you can get in a said were true. You know, if you confirm 10, 20, 30, 40%,
compromising situation. eventually you realize that most likely 99% of what it said was
true.
So I just, I just rolled with it. I had fun with it. And after a point I
felt very bad for her and I tried to help her. And there was no KC: I was trying to figure out how you ended up down here.
deprogramming this woman. I think she’s way past the point of
deprogramming. RS: Oh. So... I wanted to mention the thing about the airport, one
of the pieces that confirmed that newspaper being true. I was
Really, it’s a shame. It’s a real shame that someone is taken, sitting there in the airport and these guys come in. I can’t identify
beaten, raped, abused, tortured, you know, all these things. And them, from which country, but I assume some Arab, Middle East
she started talking about some of these scenarios. She started countries.
talking about a situation where she had been gang-raped, had
been tortured. But she had no physical scars, visible physical And some fellow there that... I don’t know what ranking, but he
scars, of these tortures. had plenty of color on his uniform, insignias, etcetera, to show
that he was a fairly high-ranking officer. And with him came a
And then I have run into, in our local town... You don’t have to security squadron.
go very far. You can go check it out yourself. I don’t want to talk
about it... [laughs] There are people here that you can go see it for Well, for goodness sakes! I mean, to go have a sandwich and a
yourself. It’s quite a shame. soft drink, there was one or two guys with M60s. You name it.
All sorts of... Full jacketed. Bullet-proof jackets, hand grenades,
You know, you can see the scar on the face, the blindness in one all sorts of rifles, you know, a variety of high-powered rifles. It’s
eye. They hold government positions. It’s a shame. It’s really... like: My! Who is this guy? You know?
because when you see one of these people, then you know how
those scars come from, you know why, how did they get it, you But the thing is, we’re talking USA, Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
know? What on Earth is this fellow doing in the airport, you know,
having a drink? And this was a common thing, where these
KC: OK. So, how did you end up down here? people would come into the cafeteria with an unbelievable
squadron of military protection.
RS: I came down here because I was looking for a place that... I
felt uncomfortable about being in the States. I studied a lot on the KC: OK. And you’re saying his nationality was Middle Eastern?
States, and I starting learning about all these things wrong with
the government. All of these... RS: Somewhere. Yeah. I have no idea from where. And they
spoke some other language that I did not recognize. But the thing
People call it conspiracy. There’s no conspiracy. It’s a fact. It’s is, you start saying: What are these people doing on USA soil?
going on. It’s happening. I’ve seen way too many bits and pieces You know? What are they doing there? You know? And then
with my own eyes, like what I just described about the Fort when you hear the 9/11 you go: Hmm. Ah. Yeah. And when you
Lauderdale airport, you know? I saw that with my own eyes. This start reading all these other stories, you start saying: Yeah. Well,
was way before 9/11, but I saw. what are these people actually doing there?
One of the things I didn’t mention that I saw there, which was KC: OK. So what...
really what made me uncomfortable... Flying the planes was no
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RS: But anyhow, all of those things put together, and seeing all really, really low-class amateurs. So it was impossible not to
these chaotic situations in the States, at one point I came and I know. And it was just a nonstop of them.
visited South America and I felt good. I felt the vibration here. It
felt happy. It felt great. So I grabbed a few of them one day and I just sat ’em down and
says: Look. Stop this bullshit. Enough is enough. I know you’re
I also realized, with my wealth at the time, that I could live here CIA. I know you’re following...
and never work again. So that’s what I’ve done. You know, I
haven’t had to work in years and years. I’ve been retired. They said: No, we...
And I’ve been able to diverge into studying spiritual subjects, Look. Don’t try to bullshit. I know who you are. You know who I
which is what really has tickled my fancy. You know: Where do am. Enough is enough. I’m not doing anything here that is of any
we come from? What are we doing here? What’s our purpose in interest to any government. So I tell you what, we can get in that
life? Where are we going? car right now. You can search my car. You can search my house.
You can search me. You can search whatever the hell you want,
So I spend quite a bit of time doing the things I want to do, versus but get off my back. Because there is nothing of any interest to
those over there, you know, having a huge house and multiple anyone. I don’t do anything that has any interest for anyone.
cars and getting a new car every year and airplane, and...
So please! My door is open. You just come knock any day. Knock
All these things are not truly necessary to have a good quality of on the door and say: Hi, this is CIA. I know you gave us
life. There’s nothing wrong with having them. But what’s wrong authorization to, you know, search everywhere. You know?
is, you know, just working around the clock to have these things
that are not truly necessary. And while they kept on saying: No, no, no, I says: Look, you
can’t bullshit me because I know where you’re coming from. So
KC: OK. But, well, are your parents alive? enough is enough.
RS: I’ll answer that after, off the record. And one of them says: Well, OK. Next day, they all disappear
from here, you know. A group of about 20 or 30 of ’em. They
KC: OK. just totally disappear.
RS: [to his colleague] You had some questions? Now they’ve replaced them with another group, but this new
group keeps a very... more professional, you know, more low-
RS’s colleague: You were talking about being involved with profile, more intelligent, not being obviously noticed, you know.
training. Well, I can’t remember what brought this up. Anyway, And I have identified at least a half a dozen of ’em. And I don’t
you had experience with someone following you around? care. And I went up to them again.
RS: Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s happened a couple of times. And... And I’ve done it with every single official here, you know. I’ve
This is more pieces of the puzzle I’ve pieced together. taken a written letter and I’ve walked up to every single one of
’em: The chief of police, the military general, the military
I just remember one that I haven’t mentioned: My best friend in colonels, the mayor, the governor. Every single one of them, I’ve
the States being heavily spied on, and no logical reason behind it. gone and visited.
But, you know, people that lived on one side of his apartment
were spying on him. The other side apartment spying on him. Yet And I’ve said: Look, my house is open to you 24 hours a day, any
he was my best friend. Makes no sense. No reason why to spy on day you want to come into my properties, my businesses, my
him, no reason why to spy on me. house, anything you want to look it. Please don’t do it remote
control. Don’t be sending one of your jerks out there that
Here, when I got to South America, I had an alphabet soup. I something may go wrong and someone kills one of my... You
don’t know. I always assumed it was CIA, but it was some know, you might kill a dog. You might fire a weapon accidentally.
British intelligence in there too, just following me everywhere. Whatever. You want to know me, you just knock on the door, you
And I just got so sick and tired of it. Because, you know, one of know. There’s no secrets. There’s no secrets whatsoever. You can
these following me around, and one of these stupidities, someone come in any day, any time.
can get hurt.
They said: I don’t know what you’re talking about.
You know, they might just turn on you in a dark alley when
you’re getting out of the car or something. You might hurt I don’t care if you know what I’m talking about. You know my
someone or you may end up getting hurt. So it’s what seems like face. You can see me, you recognize me. You know who I am,
a stupid thing. Someone following you, you say: Well, so what? right? So any day, any time, any complaint, anything, you
Someone following you can turn into a violent situation, yourself, not your peons, not your deputies or whatever. You. You
especially when you know these people are armed, and they are can come over to my house, my businesses, any day, any time.
dangerous.
And after I did that, I haven’t had any more problems. [laughs]
KC: How do you know these people were following you?
KC: How long have you been down here?
RS: Oh my goodness. They were the worst of the worst. [laughs]
I mean, it was like, you know, like amateurs. I mean really, RS: Oh, about 12, 13 years.
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KC: You’re kidding. RS: Maybe -- I don’t know if I do, but I do have some
suspicions. I have the suspicion there’s one here, and a suspicion
RS: Yeah. So... of one possibly over here.
KC: So you did this in the beginning. KC: Mm hm.
RS: This happened within the first year. Yeah. First year that I RS: I’ve also had surgeries that I did not need. And I lost some
was here. And I don’t know. Maybe they suspected, you know... mental abilities in one of those surgeries.
Foreigner moves over here. Maybe they typed some name in
some computer somewhere. They followed it, checking it out. KC: What do you mean?
Whatever. They don’t know if one is truly up to something. You
know, maybe they thought I’m part of some group or something. RS: I feel that I came to this world with considerably better
mental abilities than the ones that I have right now.
I’ve heard there’s a secret military base in Peru here, that the US
keeps a secret military base in Peru -- for I don’t know what. But KC: Really?
I’ve heard that a couple times. There’s a massive UFO presence
here. RS: So I feel that some damage was done. The story that I was
told is that I was pronounced dead for 6 minutes. I mean, my
KC: What about that mountain? It has a really strange structure heart had stopped for 6 minutes. But, putting all these pieces
on top? together? One starts now seeing conspiracies, perhaps where
they’re not, but you start wondering.
RS: Yeah. I saw a UFO there once. Very, very small one. Oh, we
can go for hours on the UFO thing. I mean, it’s just... KC: When you say... What was the event that caused you to lose
consciousness? That caused you to have the surgery that you
KC: Yeah. I mean, because... You say you astral travel. Right? didn’t need?
RS: Yeah. RS: When I was a child, my parents were convinced that I
needed a surgery that I did not need.
KC: Consciously.
KC: Really?
RS: Not as much as I would like. I think we all have problems
with that! RS: And my gullible parents went along with it, for whatever
reason, but I ended up in a hospital with a major surgery that I
KC: Yeah. did not need. And I’ve had two surgeries, possibly three surgeries
in my life that I did not need.
RS: I have astral traveled many times, consciously.
KC: How did the other ones happen?
KC: So...
RS: An alleged tumor over here which I still have after the
RS: By the way, this fellow that I’m talking, being a victim of... surgery. A tumor over here which also...
He also astral traveled consciously, but guided and controlled.
KC: I mean, were you not voluntary? I mean, obviously you
KC: Mm hm. must have checked yourself into the hospital.
RS: He traveled all over, many places, many things, but most of RS: Oh yeah, totally voluntary. As a child, you do what your
the time being totally controlled. And one of the things that he parents tell you to do, you know?
was getting good at was being able to teleport small devices. And
he teleported little things into my bedroom. And to be able to KC: You’re talking about, all of this happened as a child, or as
astrally attack people if he wanted to. He asked permission to an adult?
experiment with others, including myself, and he was getting
good at it. RS: As a child.
And I think that’s part of the things that was very, very, very KC: Not as an adult?
dangerous, that this guy was trying to... They were losing control
of him. He was trying to do things on his own, like astral travel RS: No, no. Not as an adult. And I’ve always been curious. One
consciously, and breaking off the control. of the parts doesn’t come... because one of the things is, too many
of these things have gravitated around me to be just coincidence.
KC: Mm hm. Do you have an implant? And a chip would be a nice way to know where the heck you are,
who you are, what your level is, or what they want you for. Then
RS: Maybe. That is a possibility. Not that I know about. you’ve got things with the last names.
KC: “Maybe” meaning you don’t know if you do? Or “maybe” I am... If you looked it up, I’m part of royalty. You know, it
meaning you don’t want to answer my question? traces from one of these royalty bloodlines, which kind of makes
you wonder, you know. There’s a lot of these bloodlines.
307
People think of the bloodlines of the high-caliber people. But can get a drop of blood out of you in any situation. And, you
you’ve also got to have your bloodlines for your slaves. And that know, there’s probably a heck of a lot more information in a drop
DNA is really important, to track it and know, because that DNA of blood.
is more or less programmable than another, or more or less useful
for something. KC: Your last name is what? Oh, well ... not on tape. [laughs]
So, last names is an easy way to track a lot of things about a lot [end of recording]
of people. And I would not doubt that there’s databases that
follow something to do with last names. And at any station, they
.
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Absolutely Bizarre 'Creature'

In Benjamin Fulford's Spine
From Benjamin Fulford
1-23-2009
On January 22nd I had a major operation. They opened a 13

centimeter section of my spinal cord and removed a tumor. The I have asked the doctors for hi-rez pictures. It has been sent to a
doctors say they have never, in thousands of operations, ever seen lab for testing but results are not expected for 10 days. However,
a tumor like it. one of the doctors told me the tail seemed to have a bony
structure in it. That is not something you would expect to find in
It looks like a salamander and has clearly defined eyes and a tail. a tumor made of nerve cells. Also, you can see what look like
I took a picture of it with my cell phone camera. eyes. This really is bizarre.
It may be what was responsible for the weird visions I had of the By the way, I feel just fine except for the fact they sawed open
nature of the universe. Since it was on my spinal chord it was my back-bone.
directly attached to my brain.
(Excerpted from email)
As I said before, it has what appears to be eyes and a mouth and
the doctors reported some hard matter (spine?) in the tail of the Benjamin Fulford
creature. It was 8.3 cm long.
309
Project Camelot:
Benjamin Fulford Phone Interview
26 January 2009
We just managed a short conversation with Benjamin Fulford,
who, as many of you know, is recovering from very recent KC: seriously?
surgery reported originally by Rense on January 23rd.
Considering the amphibian-like character of the tumor they BF: I remember reading after that that there is a parasite you can
removed, everyone has been curious as well as concerned over catch from eating uncooked reptile meat.
how he is doing.
KC: wow surreal, but didn't you feel anything?
Today we had the following skype chat which he has given us
permission to print: BF: I was at a fancy restaurant in Vietnam where they took the
beating heart out of a live cobra and put it into a glass of liquor
KC: hi ben how are you feeling? and made me wash it down. It was still beating when I ate it.
BF: Just fine KC: oh my god, how long ago??
KC: we have lots of people asking about you... since your surgery BF: I remember severe back pains for a while but then they went
away. That was 10-years ago.
BF: My best guess is that I had some sort of South East Asian
parasite KC: do you think you will feel a lot different now?
KC: can I give them a statement? BF: My leg feels better. The nervous sensation is returning
BF: Sure. What happened is that I noticed my right leg was KC: you are a meditator too though, so you must have kundalini
getting a bit numb and I could not run even though I could walk. energy that can help heal you
KC: wow.. BF: My father died the day after my operation. He came to me
and I knew before my family called.
BF: They did an X-ray of my spine and it showed nothing wrong
so they did and MRI that spotted an 8cm tumor. KC: oh my god.. I'm sorry !!
To get it out they had to saw open my back-bone. BF: He had leukemia
KC: was that painful? KC: was it a shock?
BF: The surgery went well and I can now walk about although of BF: No, I went to Canada before and we had good closure. He
course I cannot bend my back. was probably hanging on until he could hear if my operation
went well
KC: will it take a while to heal?
KC: interesting timing this must be a whole transition in your life
BF: All I remembers is falling asleep under the anasthaetic and both things happening at once
then waking up in my hospital room with the doctor showing me
the tumor in a tray. I was groggy but I managed to take a picture BF: Yes, big things are about to happen.
with my cell phone camera.
KC: do you want to talk about it on the record?
KC: yes we saw it on rense.
BF: I just need to let these illuminati hang themselves on their
BF: It will take a couple of months for my spine to fully heal. own rope for a bit longer. Sure, I do not mind if it is on skype
KC: bizarre, what about the year in the amazon? KC: ok good... well what things do you see?
BF: My instinct is to look for down to earth explanations before BF: I must play my cards close to my chest for the time being
looking for more exotic ones.
KC: ok -- any clues?
KC: could you have gotten it there?
BF: The year of the OX should really be called the year of the
BF: My best guess is that I got it from eating raw snake meat in cattle. The bulls will charge forward to new pastures, brushing
Vietnam.
310
aside the petty predators as if they were mosquitoes. No violence KC: really? meaning China and Japan?
will be necessary.
BF: I will let you know when the time is right
KC: hmm, ok good to hear that.. who are the bulls?
KC: ok... well I'm glad you are recovering well...
BF: By the way [name deleted] went to [place deleted] to get his
gold and suddenly dropped out of contact. BF: I have to go now but please feel free to set up a skype
interview.I will be in hospital for another week. Bye for now
KC: we know about the last time we hadn't heard he went there
finally he must have decided there was no more time to lose KC: ok thanks so much.. do you mind if we print this?
BF: There has been a scramble to secure assets in the old system BF: Go ahead
before the new system is announced
KC: be well
KC: yes absolutely... any idea when?
BF: you too
BF: It depends on what we decide over here.
--Kerry
Benjamin's Bizarre 'Creature'
311
Benjamin Fulford's 'Creature' (?)

From Brad Steiger
1-26-2009
On Friday, January 23rd, Benjamin Fulford shocked the audience embryo of a parasite into a targeted victim without his or her
of the Jeff Rense Program by emailing the claim, accompanied knowledge, but that in the world of deep black operations,
by a photograph, that surgeons had removed a bizarre life form, Russian scientists had already perfected such grotesque
very much resembling a salamander, from his spine. Those who methodology.
could view the strange creature were shocked and horrified.
Immediately, everyone who saw the "thing" wondered what it I asked the scientist to come on the Rense Program and discuss
was--and if it were real. the science of bioenergetics being developed for Black Ops
projects, but he informed me that he had been placed under "very
Whether the creature was real or whether it was an ill-advised strict warnings" not to make any appearances on any radio or
hoax, I wanted to find out if it was possible to place or to inject television program. What he did do was to write a very
such a life form into an unsuspecting victim. One of the experts informative email on the incredible world of bioenergetics and
that I queried was a top-research scientist and inventor, who psychoenergetics which I reproduce below with his special
quickly responded that not only was it possible to inject the permission. At the present time, he prefers to remain anonymous.
Yes, Brad, the "embryo" for such a "new living parasite critter" world of the off-budget deep black operations -- particularly
could indeed be developed and inserted into a targeted victim, those in Russia, which are still far ahead of anything in the West.
including at a great distance, but only by the highly "clandestine"
312
The Russian science of "energetics" -- developed shortly after The West has totally missed the fundamental characteristic of
WW II by a tremendously massive Soviet effort of some of the mind: Mind occupies time but not 3-space. Hence, mind is a
best nonlinear scientists on earth -- did solve some of the totally "electromagnetic" system, but it is comprised of only non-
perplexities of our modern physics, of psychology and biology, observable time-polarized photon operations!
etc. And under Stalin's iron boot, the new and spectacular
Russian scientific developments were immediately placed into ---------------------------------------
extended weapons development.
Well, how could you possibly couple that mind to a biological (3-
To this day, our own more-materialistic scientists still do not space) material body?
really comprehend Soviet energetics. (And they also still do not
even know what a mind actually is, what a "dead" (separated) You would have to have a parallel longitudinally-polarized set of
mind is, or what a "mind and body linked living system" really electromagnetic operations ongoing in that 3-space body.
is).
And the direct coupling of those two "operational systems" would
Soviet energetics had three branches: (1) the science of inert be the mechanism of the coupling of the mind to the body -- and
matter, called by the same name "energetics". (2) the science of it would and could be directly observed by our instruments as a
living biological systems, where a mind is linked to a living correlated system of voltage spikes!
body. This branch is called "bioenergetics". (3) the science of the
mind and mental phenomena, which is called "psychoenergetics". And that is why the dendrite cells of the body all have so many
endings and "continual and incredible voltage spikings"! In
Western science, being so materialistic, has not yet looking at the entire set of spiking, you are looking at the
comprehended the most important thing about "mind": that is, "coupling mechanism" (that couples the mind to the body) in
that the mind and mental things exist in time, but not in 3-space. action! That set of spikings is what links or couples (coherently)
the living temporal mind to the living biological body!
If one turns to modern quantum field theory, then there are now
FOUR photons available, not the two transverse photons so well Now if you place great scientific effort on that area and in that
known to classical electrodynamicists etc. In the following fashion, for some decades, you will eventually be able to (1)
discussion, the travel direction of the photon in 3-space is directly produce an operating living mind in the laboratory,
assumed along the Z axis. The "regions of vibration" of the including a human mind and any version of it, and (2) link it to a
photon -- i.e., the type and direction of its oscillation -- may properly designed biological body (to a proper set of longitudinal
occur in four ways. These are (1, 2) the two "orthogonal" operations therein), and this will give you a living biological
oscillation polarizations, one along the X-axis and the other along system created directly in the laboratory.
the Y-axis. Then there is (3) the longitudinal (i.e., longitudinally-
polarized) photon, which oscillates along the Z-direction of travel -------------------------------------
itself. And finally there is (4) the time-polarized or "scalar"
photon, which oscillates along the time axis. These four photons In about 1990, the Russian hidden psychoenergetics science had
are all in standard quantum field theory, even in the West. progressed to the point that living minds were being designed and
produced in the laboratory, including various "versions"
Now note that only the two transverse-polarized photons (1) and (personalities) of a given mind.
(2) are observable by our instruments. The longitudinal (3)
photon is nonobservable, as is the time-polarized (4) photon. If one knows where to look, there is and has been quite a bit of
external "testing" by the Soviets to stimulate the West and see if
Here's the first "magic": we recognize what is being done (in short, to see whether the
West also has developed such science). Sadly, the provocative
A combination of a longitudinal photon (3) and a time-polarized tests have clearly shown the Soviets that we do not have such
photon (4) is OBSERVABLE AS A SPIKE OF VOLTAGE -- capabilities or such scientific development. Indeed, we still do
more precisely, a spike of electrostatic scalar potential. not even recognize that "testing" is even going on!
Now suppose you have a hidden (nonobservable) electromagnetic One of the New Energy scientists--Tom Bearden--stumbled onto
"system" you have built in the time-domain, so that it is built only a portion of this Soviet energetic work. In his 2005 book,
of time-polarized photons. The system is not observable, nor is Oblivion: America at the Brink, Bearden gave an abbreviated
any part of it observable. presentation of the development of the energetics weaponry and
some of the actual "evocative testing" examples. There are many
But then suppose you also build a corresponding set of operations more weapons and examples that he did not run across.
(a "system") in 3-space matter so that this new EM system
consists only of longitudinal photons. And suppose you have ------------------------------------
made this "longitudinal" photon system's operations so that they
exactly parallel the time-domain system's operations. In short, Presently, the Russians can clandestinely duplicate the mind of a
you now can superpose your longitudinally-polarized EM wave targeted individual, in the duplicate mind they can "alter"
system and the time-polarized EM wave system. And your portions to produce "different behavior" if that alternate mind is
instruments will now observe the combination -- i.e., the actual inserted into the targeted individual in the West, and then they
ongoing linkage system's operation -- as a very strange but highly can do several things. (1) they can just leave it in that individual
organized system of voltage spikes! as an extra "multiple personality," so they have the 'perfect spy"
that hears everything the person's ears hear, sees everything his
eyes see, and also receives all the thoughts that his true mind
313
thinks. And they can put that on the TV screen in Moscow if they and how one could then use such capability (such weird and
wish. With the portion for which he actually encountered artificially-created critters) by sudden surprise on an
evidence, Bearden gave examples of the military use of such unsuspecting enemy to overwhelm and crush him almost
capabilities in Oblivion. instantly.
Sadly, the West still thinks that the human "mind" is just some As you can see, we are referring to a gigantic leap forward in
electron wiggles in the brain, and that we are like a giant what the West calls "biological weapons" and in "biological
"nonliving" computer. warfare".
---------------------------------------
There is also a way to directly engineer any physical observable
system one wishes, in any part of it, living or nonliving. One can Well, one should be looking for "very strange incidents"
directly engineer and change inert matter or living matter, etc. I suggesting the development of such "critters" and parasites. And
have learned that Bearden plans a future book (hopefully this here is at least one "candidate" occurrence.
year) dealing with this scientific methodology, which he calls
"precursor engineering", but which the Soviets still have ---------------------------------------
embedded in its term "energetics" with its associate science (and
weapons). This present "incredible tumor" discovery [ in Benjamin Fulford's
--------------------------------------- spin] may be the discovery of one "provocative test" of these
capabilities, just to see what our western science and biological
Once you understand something about this 3-fold secret weapons warfare experts make of it.
science of energetics that the Soviets have highly developed, then
you can understand how -- with such developed technology -- And if it is a "provocative test" to see what we know, of if we
one could directly build both the physical body system (its know anything of it at all, we have certainly once again assured
correlated longitudinal EM photon system) and the "mind them we have not the foggiest notion of the true reach of Soviet
system" of such a "living critter" one creates in the laboratory, energetics science.
314
Project Camelot:
Marcia Schafer - Ground Crew 101 - Interview Transcript
Marcia Schafer - Ground Crew 101
Phoenix, Arizona, September 2008
Start of interview
Kerry Cassidy (KC): I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot,

and we're here with Marcia Schafer. And she’s going to be telling
us a little bit more about the future, possibly. She has written a
wonderful book and she can talk about that. And tell us what’s
been going on for the past year.
Marcia Schafer (MS): Well, thank you for that wonderful

introduction [laughs]. What’s been really intriguing in the past
year is to see the progression of where people were and where
they have come to in such a short time.
What I do as a business consultant is that I work with people

around the world, probably in 14 countries at this point, and I
give them both hard business skills to get ahead, but also some
spiritual, mystical, and esoteric knowledge so that they can
reposition themselves to really be a new leader for the tomorrow
We first interviewed Marcia Schafer in May 2007. When we met that we need to have.
her husband Bob Dean for the second time in September 2008,
we naturally sought an update from Marcia on where she saw So I’m basically planting human seeds, by giving them skills they
everything going in the world... and what she could report from need to walk into a world, to build a different type of future than
her professional consulting work with the large number of newly the one that seems to be being handed off to us.
awakening executive clients she talks with every day.
And it’s been amazing to see the scope of the people who are
Marcia told us about the growing awareness of what she calls the intrigued by this and want more -- because it’s not just the New
swing vote: those who are becoming aware of the new paradigm Age realm and esoteric people. There is an entire subgroup of
and the ET connection, and what this all means when applied to people waking up, making the people who are already aware of
the real world. these types of things… Their demographic group, thus, is
becoming enhanced.
We've called this interview Ground Crew 101 because it seemed
to us that Marcia was strongly connecting with those who were Because it’s like you have that “middle swing vote”? Well, the
just coming on board, discovering their missions, and integrating middle swing vote is making a difference and making a decision.
their new awareness into their everyday lives. Her no-nonsense, And they’re delving very heavily into wanting to know all about
practical approach is refreshing. She is unabashedly positive in this greater reality, this great unknown that’s out there. What
her outlook - in spite of the myriad of challenges we face together does it mean?
as a civilization in the next few years.
So, how many people at this point have had an esoteric
Her frank appraisal of the inner changes in perspective which are experience like: I think I saw a ghost, or: I saw something in the
necessary to face the future is inspiring, and is a good guidestone sky, and they want to know more about it. They want to know
for those just breaking out of the Matrix and taking on a mission: more about life’s great questions, as to Why are we here? and
new recruits in the quest to save our planet and our humanity. We What does my life mean? and have meaning. So we delve into the
encourage those just waking up to the changing times around soul aspects.
them - bravely taking those first steps into the great unknown
replete with other dimensions, visiting ETs and conspiracy But then we go into stage two and reposition them: OK. So you
theories fast becoming facts - to watch... and welcome aboard. have all this information. Now what are you going to do about it
to make a difference?
Marcia Schafer: … But instead of being terrified, we’ve got to
learn to let go of the things that may not have mattered so much, Because that’s why we’re all here today at this time, is to make a
when we thought they did, and get ready for tremendous new difference, to help to turn a strategic corner on this planet. And
opportunity to build things the way that they should be built to they really embrace that, and are taking it very seriously.
allow us to live in a society that will benefit us in a new way.
315
And they are moving so fast in terms of their knowledge and MS: I’m giving them hands-on experience that you only get
awareness that some of these people are just blowing my mind. when you’ve really been in certain positions at the top of an
You know, between a week of I’m curious, and then they call organization.
back the next week when they have a subsequent appointment
and say: I’ve been out of my body. [laughs] I had this experience. KC: OK.
I think there was an extraterrestrial here. Or something.
MS: And, you know, I’ve had the professional training, but… I
KC: Really. mean, my God I have an MBA, but I think so does George Bush,
so anybody can get an MBA! Forgive me.
MS: And they need answers.
KC: Yes…
KC: Right.
MS: Can we edit that out? But, you know, the fact of the matter
MS: So where do you go for answers? I mean, it’s not like you is there is a lot of knowledge I have hands-on that really saves
can really go to Wikipedia all the time to find it, [laughs] or, you them a lot of time and money in terms of when they’re really
know, call a friend or something, so. . . trying to get repositioned as to: What am I going to do here with
this business?
KC: Well, I could recommend they go to Camelot, for one thing.
Real information, not just motivational coaching… Not
MS: Excellent! Yes. We will do that. [laughs] denigrating motivational coaching, because there is part of that in
there, keeping people focused. And it’s an important part.
KC: That’s great. So you’re working with executives at
companies. Is this right? But really tangible, technical skills, and inside knowledge that
you don’t get unless you’ve been inside an industry. And I’ve
worked across a span of industries that I can help them get
MS: I’m working with executives at companies. I’m working positioned. But really they’re mostly hungry for… They like that.
with, just, lay people, housewives. But the esoteric is…
KC: Oh my. KC: That’s what I was going to say. But in terms of hands-on, in
a sense… I mean you’re a contactee. You know…
MS: I’ve got clients that range from 16 to 92, and everything in
between. MS: Yes.
KC: Well, how do they find out about you? KC: You’re also, I don’t know how you want to term it, but
you’re intuitive, psychic.
MS: You know, I just find it amazing. They just find me. I have
never advertised or marketed. And you’ll often hear me say that MS: Yes.
Google and God are my marketing directors. [laughs] They just
find me. It’s like when the London Sunday Times found me, and I
go: How on earth did you ever find me? KC: So you must give them entrée into certain worlds that
maybe they’re already being in touch with?
KC: That’s right.
MS: Right.
MS: And they said: We found you on the internet. They just did a
search. KC: I mean, are the people coming to you, people that have a
background already in, you know, having anomalous experiences
in their life? Possibly even abduction experiences? Whatever…
KC: So, would you call yourself, like, a personal coach? contact experiences, however you want to call it? Or are they
people that are just, you know, the blank slate coming to you
MS: No. Absolutely not. The reason why is that my executive saying: I know nothing, you know, Enlighten me?
background and my academic credentials are pretty substantial.
MS: Yes, yes, and yes. It’s amazing. I tend to say that I work
KC: Right. with “reincarnated initiates” primarily, the people who are really
here to be the teachers.
MS: And so, you know, it may be the ego, but I worked hard for
them, and I like to take credit for them. So I have a tremendous KC: Oh, all right.
amount of knowledge. I’m not just coaching people.
MS: But, at the same time, I’d say 20 – 25% of the people who
KC: Right. come to me are just awakening and dipping their feet in.
However, what they soon discover is, they’ve had a lot of
316
teaching in other lifetimes. And so, we kind of rip the veil away KC: And see beneath the surface to what’s really going on
so that they can access that information and be catapulted pretty outside of the matrix.
far ahead of the game…
MS: Absolutely. The extraterrestrial component, though, is such
KC: OK. an integral part of that. And they all want to know more, because
it really brings back our full history on this planet. And it brings
MS: …by getting into those other training sessions from other back our potential future as we go out into space and enter into
lifetimes. the next frontier. So that’s a large component, also, of what
people are getting involved in.
KC: But are you able to tap into their reincarnation history, to
some degree? And, having had a scope of experiences, with not just one race,
but multiple races giving me a multi-cultural variation to it --
different aspects of technology, holography, communication,
MS: Definitely. Yeah. I can even look at a picture, by proxy. different species attributes, how they tend to work with humans,
That’s how I work with people around the world. And the way I who tends to take you on a little bit of a joy journey, who tends to
found out was quite by accident. A woman once handed me a give you more philosophical teachings.
picture of her daughter at lunch, and I said: Did you know there’s
a man standing next to her that you can’t see? And I described
him. And I said he was in the shoe industry. Those types of thing are really helpful as people are trying to gain
their own working-ground, and wrapping their head around the
extraterrestrial reality.
She said: My God! That’s my father. He’s been dead for two
years.
KC: Well, also, we’re all mixtures of different races, wouldn’t
you say? So, I mean, you must tap into that.
KC: Ah.
MS: In more ways than you would think! In more ways than
MS: And so I also can see your soul path and your even the human race.
reincarnational journeys. So I just use the photos for people and
animals and tap right in to them.
KC: Yes. Well, that’s what I meant by races -- ET races, various
ETs. So you must actually tap into their, sort of, lineage, if you
KC: OK. So the same thing that you have access to with animals, will.
you’re tapping into with humans?
MS: Oftentimes I can. Oftentimes. You know with… If you take
MS: Yeah. It’s a lot faster. I have to work a lot harder with the reincarnation in general, for example, someone may have 140
animals than I do with the humans. [laughs] lifetimes, but only 4 are really germane to what’s going on right
now.
KC: OK.
KC: Mm hm. That’s right.
MS: So that gives me information. So then your life work
becomes your work life, which is very self-fulfilling, rather than MS: And their journeys of where they may have reincarnated not
just going and thinking: OK, I’m going to go on an interview and on Earth, there’s often -- not always -- but there’s often a primary
work for somebody else. Or, I want to be an entrepreneur. lineage that they really feel affinity to. Just like here on Earth, we
could say: Well, I really am more in tune with my Egyptian
But people are afraid. And that’s the biggest thing that people incarnations than I am with my Greek ones…
have to overcome, is their fear, whether the fear of the unknown,
fear of going forward and being an entrepreneur; fear of, you KC: Exactly. Yes.
know: Was that an alien that I saw?
MS: …somebody may have. And, you know, a lot of times
If you have information, then there goes the fear. It’s just not there’s no names for these races that we have. I can just describe
knowing what to expect that strips people of their ability to stand where they seem to be coming from, or if there is something in
in full power. the common vernacular, but they have something very strong
there. But people are always positioned that they’ve got to find
KC: So, in a certain sense you’re assisting people to find their their own answers, because this isn’t empirical information.
mission, and then, possibly, to execute it to some degree.
KC: Right.
MS: I think that’s very well put. I think that’s very well put. And
it’s really intriguing to watch them around the world as they are MS: And so, I can’t give you: In 1613, you know, there was this
starting to really take a look at the future and say: This can particular information; you can go look it up. Or in, you know,
happen. I can do things differently. And the future is going to be 42 A.D. So people have to be tuned into their own reality and
very different than what I am being given with the CNN version their own version of what feels right and what resonates.
of reality that we get fed every day -- if I step out of this scenario
that I am being fed and take back life as I want to live it.
317
KC: Right. What resonates with them. There is a lot to do with… when you get into the very
controversial aspects of time and time travel. They teach you the
MS: So, these are just like tools, and things to help. Here is, you truth.
know, just a cornucopia of information. If it feels right, take it
and use it as a tool to grow. And if it doesn’t, that’s OK. Just Now truth. Really, what is truth? Truth is a matter of perspective.
discard it. What is truth at one point and to one person, is not another
person’s. But I feel it’s the closest to the truth that I’ve been able
Because you have to be your own master of your destiny. Don’t to get at this point.
you dare hand off the keys to the car to me or anybody else!
But the regular extraterrestrial races are the ones that a lot of
KC: Right. Well, that’s great to hear that that’s your approach. people are having contacts with. You always hear about the
So, in your own back-experience with the races that you feel Grays.
affinity for… Are you willing to talk about which races you do?
Because, you know, if I remember correctly -- and correct me if KC: Mm hm.
I’m wrong here – there’s something with the Sirians,
Andromedans, that you had some contact there. I know you have MS: And what I like to get people familiar with is the fact that,
a real affinity for Egypt. And I feel I know you from Egypt, I with the Grays, is that they have some of the most tremendous
have to say. powers of holography, telepathy, of all the races out there. And,
the power of being able to get inside your head and anticipate
MS: Yeah. A lot of times when I do use those terms, as I pointed what they need to do, for a scenario, to be able to reach out to
out, they’re used because they’re already in the common you, or to get you to think that you’re in a certain situation so that
vernacular and people are familiar with them. you’re more comfortable, is quite powerful. And so, you want to
break through that illusion.
My perspective is, I’ll talk a little bit about the extraterrestrial
races, but there’s something that’s beyond them I think is so KC: Mm hm.
much more important that I get people focused in on. And that’s
what I call the “Multi-dimensional Teachers”, the more advanced MS: But I also try to get people to understand that… Stop
beings who really teach us to become elevated, super-humans looking at things from a human who’s very stubborn, and try to
almost, to be what we aspire to be, and know what we can be, understand why these races are working with us in the capacity
you know, the best of humanity. that they are.
Those are the ones I like to focus in on and stay in communion And so, what the human does is, they take themselves out of the
with. You really almost have to earn your privileges with them. placement of, I’m just another species, and tries to put
It’s as if, you know, as an average person, we would try to get themselves as a God-like being. And we’re not a God-like being.
into Harvard, where supposedly they have wonderful teachers We are just another species in a broad spectrum that’s out there.
there, although there are also good teachers elsewhere. [laughs] And so, when we look…
KC: Right. KC: Well, there is also a tendency to put the alien, or the ET, in
that position.
MS: But, you know, it’s that type of thing. I really feel honored
when I have the ability to get communion and communication MS: Very much so, because they’re so different.
with them. And that’s where I try to focus people, because…
KC: And that’s a huge gap and a disconnect.
KC: OK. So when you say multi-dimensional, are you talking
light beings, people that…
MS: Yeah. That’s part of our growing up, in that what we have
to do is to stop looking at them as Gods. You know, that’s one of
MS: You could call them that. They don’t need a body. the most common “Ten Myths of Extraterrestrial Reality”, is that
they’re Gods and great beings.
KC: …beings that don’t manifest in… Yes.
KC: Right.
MS: They will use one, oftentimes, but they don’t necessarily
need a body. And so, they’re what we tend to refer to as the Old MS: They’re not Gods and great beings. We should think of
Wise Masters, and they can take any form, any shape. them as life colleagues. And that’s how we should think of every
species on this planet.
They really focus a lot on teaching the understanding of space,
time -- which is so infantile here on this planet -- getting us to KC: Also, they all have agendas. We’ve got a basis for what
understand multiple perspectives, how things really work out you’re doing with your contacts, and also with the people that
there, and how to navigate beyond the human experience. you’re consulting. You call yourself a consultant, right?
MS: Yes.
318
KC: And so, what we want to know is, have you had contact MS: We’re in the midst of one of those times. But, instead of
lately? And what are they telling you, if anything, about what’s being terrified, we’ve got to learn to let go of the things that may
going on here today? have not mattered so much, when we thought they did, and get
ready for tremendous new opportunity to build things the way
MS: Excellent question. that they should be built to allow us to live in a society that will
benefit us in a new way.
KC: Because we’ve got an economy that’s in the tank. Right?
Now, a lot of people aren’t going to like that because they like
their house; they’ve accrued a tremendous amount of money;
MS: Yes. they like the lifestyle they have. But the bottom line is the planet
can’t sustain that anymore.
KC: And people are wondering what’s happening with their
stocks. You know, the stock market is down, drastically down. KC: OK. But… so you know that the Illuminati have an agenda.
We’ve got potential war with Iran. We’ve got all kinds of things You know they’re trying to roll that out as we speak. You know
going on. that there are efforts to actually attack Iran. So, you know this is
going on in the backdrop, and yet you seem to be very optimistic.
MS: We’re at an incredibly tumultuous situation. And I want to So when you say… Look, they’re gonna lose their money. They
give you a kudos, because you’re the first person who’s asked me may lose their house. Certainly the housing crisis is pretty
that. And you really have ask me questions to get a lot of phenomenal. But, what is the new style that you’re sort of telling
information out of me. them they’re going towards?
KC: Sure. MS: I just want to clarify this. It doesn’t mean they’re
necessarily going to lose their money. But you have to be living
MS: What has happened is… As you know from the last time, in a time right now where we have to be able to surf the waves
I’ve been contacted since I was in the crib. But what they did is, and deal with what comes forward.
they made some… What we could call, in an analogy, is saying
I’m hard-wired? Tapped in? And so, I have instant What I’m doing is repositioning them in terms of looking at…
communication any time I need it to the other side. So I don’t There’s never been a better time. Oh, this is a horrible analogy:
have to necessarily have an extraterrestrial visit or have them Think about if the carpetbaggers in the South were a positive
come. thing instead of abusing the South the way it happened. Think if
it was a positive humanitarian thing.
I haven’t seen anyone in the physical for a while. Over the past
couple of years there’s been a couple of attempts, and I’ve closed There’s never been a better time to get in on the ground floor
the door -- for certain reasons -- because I wasn’t sure who it was right now to get positioned for a different future, one that’s gonna
in advance. And so, that is something that I’ve done in the recent include, or go beyond, the frontiers of this planet, new frontiers in
years unless I know exactly who it is and I feel completely space.
comfortable.
There’s tremendous advances in technology and artificial
It’s kind of a Pavlovian response. But I always have access to intelligence. There’s tremendous changes in peoples’ lifestyles.
information anytime I ask a question. It’s almost like there’s a There’s tremendous understanding of the greater reality, which is
little antenna on all the time. going to be flooding in to a new degree. There’s never been a
better chance to be a true pioneer and be tremendously
And what you’re asking is what I’m getting from people all over successful.
the world. I mean, people are really, really scared, confused, not
sure what’s happening. And the message I get over and over again, whether it’s
somebody who’s just raising -- I shouldn’t say just; it’s the most
KC: Right. important job of our generation, is raising kids -- somebody
who’s raising kids, dealing with a family; or is a small-time
entrepreneur; a major CEO who’s in ultimate despair. When they
MS: But what I want to point out is, yeah, are we in the midst of get off the phone with me, they say: I’ve never looked at life so
great change? Absolutely. But you’ve got to get rid of the baby differently, and I have such a different vision of the future and of
teeth before the big teeth can come in. hope, that it’s incredible.
And so what I’m doing is getting people to look at it from a And so, what I’m doing is telling them, and showing them, that
different perspective. I mean, we’ve been through all kinds of it’s all about vision and how we look at it. And we’ve just gotta
tumultuous situations, ever since the history of mankind. I mean, be prepared.
Sparta invaded Athens. You know, the Romans took over
England. We can go right on up through our history, where we
felt like the world was ending and there was total chaos within Now, if some things are gonna happen, they’re gonna happen.
the times, within the context of our civilization in which we live. Some things may not happen. Some things we may make a
difference in by doing things differently, thinking differently,
creating this resistance to this -- as I call it; you’ve heard me say
KC: Right. before -- this CNN version of reality.
319
KC: Right. MS: Now, this is highly controversial, but, with the last series of
elections that we had -- we don’t know if this is true or not -- but
MS: And it’s all about… Everything I talk about is all about the information I had been given in the 1990s was that they were
taking back our power, as human beings, as social beings, as intending for the early 2000s, particularly between 2002 and
cultural beings, as someone incarnated within the times. We now 2004, to be able to make great headway in terms of making
have tools that we didn’t have before. themselves known on this planet.
KC: OK. We’ve got an oil-dependent regime. OK? But with things that took place, and the way they watched the
populace respond to certain things that happened, it was decided
that they were not going to shake up the planet and they were
MS: Which we’ve had for a very long time. going to wait at that time.
KC: Exactly. And so, what we’re looking for is something that KC: OK. So here we are at 2008. Is what you’re getting that they
will change. are going to come forward more?
MS: New thought-forms. MS: I do believe that that’s gonna happen in our lifetime. I don’t
get a date. I know a lot of people believe that by 2012 it’s gonna
KC: A mind that’s open to change. happen. I can only tell you potentials.
MS: New thought-forms. I would expect, at the rate we’re going, by 2016 it should be out
in the open. Could it happen in two years? Sure. Could it happen
KC: OK. That’s gonna be the bottom line, is that, if they’re not in twelve years? Sure. But at this point in time I do not know and
willing to change the paradigm, then we’re gonna get the same I’m not going to pretend like I do. I’m just looking at potentials,
old, same old, same old. Right? and the way that we’re going forward.
MS: Well, you’re making an assumption. Anything’s up for grabs. But, you know, as I alluded to last time,
you also look for indicators as to what’s out there where it might
happen. We are getting more into the open populace and more
KC: OK. Yeah. Help me here, because if we remain totally into the mainstream.
dependent on oil…
But, remember, I also said that one of the major triggers for
MS: Yeah. If we don’t change the paradigm, there’s several knowing when it’s coming soon is when there’s an
things that could happen. There could be things that happen announcement that on another planet they found evidence of an
geologically, or geographically. There could be things that could ancient civilization.
happen where those who watch over us may decide to step in. Or
may not.
KC: Mm hm.
KC: Right. Oh, yeah.

MS: If we ever find that, then we know it’s just around the
corner. That may not be our pathway. They may not go that way
MS: So, there’s a lot of things that could happen. The optimum with us. But I would expect – just in general terms as they usually
opportunity for us is to change the paradigm. do with planets opening up… it could happen.
Now, the intriguing thing is I sometimes get asked: Well, do they KC: OK. What you’re dealing with are executives. As you say,
tell you who’s gonna win the election? You know. Do they give there’s a growing consciousness change.
you advance notice?
MS: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Whenever I get information, it’s usually just days before the wire,
because it’s already written out there and they let me know --
which has happened in the past elections. KC: OK. And you seem pretty impressed by it.
However, in this situation, what they do is, they really watch, MS: Oh, I’m astonished. I’m not impressed. In the past year in
because this tells them the pulse of the human being within the the difference in my practice… I’m astonished.
United States, as to how they make their decisions, what their
trends are, where they seem to be putting their energies and KC: OK. Well that’s lovely.
information in terms of where they’re going forward. Because, as
you’re pointing out, one pathway does lead towards openness to MS: The people coming to me, the level of people, what they’re
greater change and doing things differently. The other one does experiencing, and once they’re beginning to get some answers,
show more resistance. put some pieces to the puzzle together, how fast they’re being
accelerated. And I’ve just basically let go, and let them work with
KC: Mm hm. those on the other side who work with them.
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KC: Right. OK. one thing interesting. Those of us who've had experiences, that
aren't just, you know: Oh, I had an experience, or I saw
MS: These people are almost like colleagues to me at this point, something, but have lifetime training, there are things we know
instead of, you know, coming as initiates. about that only each other know. So we can, again using the
word, vet each other very quickly.
KC: That’s nice.
And so, Jim and I realized that we could talk a similar language,
and very comfortably, very quickly. And the thing with Jim is
MS: It’s fabulous. [laughs] that, from what I understand, and I may have this wrong, but I
understand that he originally looked at this negatively. But then
KC: Yes. I mean, that’s got to be a great feeling. But, you know, he soon learned, by widening his perspective, that there was a
there are ETs with what might be called a negative agenda, or not greater agenda, more going on than he realized was going on.
in our best interests. And do you make your clients aware of who And he was able to look at it differently.
those ETs are? Do you teach them how to protect themselves?
KC: Right.
MS: The number one thing is teach them how to protect
themselves, not just from ETs, but when you start opening up the MS: And so, that's one of the approaches that's really incumbent
door to the other side, anything and everything can come in. upon all of us to be aware of, is that we don't always understand
what's going on when we work with these other groups. And
KC: Right. that's why you have to think perceptively, in a whole new
manner, and be open. But at the same time, be smart and not give
MS: So you don’t open up the door till you know how to shut it. away, you know, the keys to the vault of yourself and say, again:
So that’s the number one thing. Oh, they're Gods. I'll do anything you say.
KC: Mm hm. KC: Right.
MS: However, I don’t teach them, necessarily, this one is MS: We need to think smartly and say: Is this right for me?
negative or that one is negative, because… Think of it, when you What kind of information am I getting? How does this integrate
were a kid, you know. You had this best friend and your parents into my reality? Does it make sense? What am I going to do with
couldn’t stand him because in their eyes they were negative, but it? Is somebody taking me for a joyride here, or what?
you saw value in that person.
KC: Exactly.
KC: Mm hm.
MS: And so, these are the things that people worldwide need to
MS: There may be something there for them that I could be know. This needs to be a part of our ET 101 education that we've
putting within this paradigm which would be, you know, unfair. been stripped of by not even being allowed to acknowledge that
they exist.
KC: OK.
KC: Exactly. Yeah.
MS: So what I do is, I give them tools of discernment, of

protection, of what to look for. The most powerful tool I give MS: So I'm doing my best to get ET 101, and 401, out there into
them is how to use their cognitive mind along with their intuitive the common populous for those who are open for it.
mind to look at things perceptively, and to look at this greater
reality that's out there and whoever may be in it and be able to, KC: OK. So you're getting information yourself. You're dealing
let's say, vet them, so that they can determine for themselves, with people that are starting to open up, some of which are quite
whether it’s good or bad. far along on the path. And then, at the same time we've got this…
I don't know if you want to call it a "rolling snowball”. But
KC: Right. Whether they're sending them on a positive mission, whatever this is, you know, stuff is coming down the pike, some
if you will. of which will be Earth changes.
MS: Right, right. MS: I wouldn't say that very definitively like that. [laughs]
KC: Because a lot of these things go on... You know, Jim Sparks KC: Right. Well, Earth changes, you know…
is one of the well-known conscious abductees, if you will. His
recall could have, and probably does have, some overlays to it, MS: We've had Earth changes since we've been on this planet.
even though it appears to be positive. So this is, you know, a
huge dilemma. KC: Right. So don't misinterpret what I'm saying.
MS: Well, Jim and I had an interesting phone call, within the MS: OK.
past year, I think it was. And before I tell you what else, there’s
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KC: I'm using the term "Earth changes" purposefully. It could be KC: OK. So, in addition, we get, you know, because Camelot's
small, you know. It could be a tornado, you know. now been in operation for a little over two years… We've got
witnesses from deep black projects. We've got psychics. We've
MS: OK. That’s correct. got intuitives. We've got, you know… covering the gamut, really.
And the information we get coming at us is really amazing.
KC: It could be a major change in a coastline. It could be a
change in the amount of water, you know, inundated, certain There's a huge amount of it which is kind of focused on what
areas, you know; ecosystems changing. It could be small, or it appears to be… if you're familiar with the Iron Mountain Report
could be major. Right? and with some of the agendas that they're trying to role out. Now,
whether they’ll be successful at that, of course, has something to
do with the way the populace reacts, and the consciousness…
MS: Right.
MS: Yes. What is the Iron Mountain Report?
KC: So we have a gamut.
KC: Reduction of the population through disease, you know,
MS: Right. actually planted viruses. War. You know, creating what they call
chaos… to bring order out of that, the kind of order that they're
KC: And what we're wondering, and what I'm sure people out looking for. In other words, there is a movement to get rid of a
there are wondering is, to what degree, and how soon, and certain degree of population. There are agendas out there that
where? And this kind of thing. And what I'm wondering is, are they're pushing along.
you getting that kind of information? Or is it all still, you know,
subject to change? And what I'm wondering is, in your work... because these
agendas... In other words, you can consult somebody individually
MS: I am getting some of that information. It is heavily on their life, and they can start having a much better view of
dependent on where the consciousness of the planet goes. And so, reality and of all their potential, and, you know, want to start a
that's why it is so important to get people empowered, and get company, let's say. In fact we just met a couple who… they're
them to understand that they have an entrainment program in starting a very wonderful eco-friendly way of building houses.
front of them, in terms of where their minds are, where their OK? Kind to the environment, you name it.
thoughts are, what they're expecting, and how that they're acting,
is going to make a difference in what's going to befall them. But they're in a dilemma right now. They've got a child and they
feel that something’s coming down the pike. They actually live
KC: Mm hm. already in a fairly, what I would consider to be, you know -- who
can call anything safe? – but safe in the sense that it’s not on a
MS: It is absolutely critical. Because the way that I've been led coastline. You're not going to have a tsunami tomorrow. This sort
to understand that time works is that this is going to impact which of thing.
timeline befalls us, as a greater populous.
But they feel that America has become actually, you know,
KC: Right. untenable. It's not gonna be the America we knew in the past.
MS: As far as details, I'm occasionally shown some things. But MS: It already isn't the America we knew in the past.
they always, always have predicated it with: This is a probable
tendency, a probable reality. Anything can change. KC: Exactly. So this is worrying them. And they want to know
what their future looks like, for their child. And they're actually
KC: OK. contemplating moving out of the country to South America
because now...
MS: One interesting thing that I understand Edgar Cayce had

said is that… Within the past month or two, I have seen some MS: Well, I'm getting a lot of South America. I have a lot of
land rising off of Florida. Now whether that’s going to happen, I clients throughout South America.
don’t know any more than you do. But I would be very intrigued.
You know, that whole Bimini type of line, down to the Bahamas, KC: GREAT! Well, let’s hear what it is…
has been shown to me as becoming more solidified as a potential.
MS: OK.
KC: Uh huh.
KC: What would you say to these people? That’s what I'm
MS: But again, I don't know. I mean, I don't know any more than asking.
I know which horse is gonna run at Belmont, you know, and win.
[laughter] But I just listen to it. I pay attention to it, and know MS: I do say what I'm about to say, because I get asked this
that it's a potential. It’s a possibility. And we'll wait and see, just every single time -- is that you are going to be guided to
like the rest of us. wherever you need to go. If something is gonna happen, you’re
gonna end up exactly where you need to go.
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KC: Mm hm. The other thing we have -- and this is very controversial; I can't
believe I'm gonna talk about it [laughs] on camera -- is that, when
MS: And it may not be, you know, heading high for the hills and we talk about reincarnation, what I have seen is we have a mass
hanging out and being safe with your family. Because if contingency reincarnated again, of those who were at first
something were to happen on a larger degree in this country, working at the time that we know, of Ahknaton, but what I call
worldwide, people have certain skill-sets that are gonna be the “Jesus contingency.”
needed in certain places.
There was the time, at that point, of what we've been led to
So, this is where I get people to tap into their higher selves and believe was a little bit different than the religious accounts tend
their consciousness and say: Just trust. Trust in yourself. to tell us. I mean, we have to remember, the stories were written
70 years later, at the earliest. We have very small fragments of
what happened.
Because you weren't born to pay the mortgage. You weren't born
to go to your kids’ soccer game. Those are things that come with
everyday life. You were born as part of a mass contingency who But there was a mass contingency of people back at that time.
decided to be here at a time to help enable a strategic turnaround They are all reincarnated and back here again, once again trying
on this planet. to do this amazing strategic turnaround on this planet, hoping for
a different future.
KC: Mm hm.
But goodness! Look what happened two thousand years ago! It
wasn't the way that a lot of people thought it was gonna turn out.
MS: So for God’s sakes, listen. Listen to yourself. Remember And I don't think certainly Yeshua thought it was gonna turn out
who you are and why you are here. And stop worrying about that way. [laughs] Or maybe the plans were a little different.
these things. Because you'll be wherever you need to be, and That's very bold for me to say.
you'll have whatever you need to do at that time.
But I've seen this amazing contingency reincarnated again back
Now, in terms of the population being reduced, whatever, we've here.
been through that. You look at Western Europe, being wiped out
by the black plague.
So, if we're facing a strategic turnaround, I think we have a well-
equipped group to deal with it if they just do one thing:
KC: That’s right. Remember who they are, come into their power, take back the
way that they think, and not give away their power to others,
MS: And so, you know, as many people have said before: How remember the spiritual component within them, remember the
can we know our future when we don't even remember our past? divinity in everybody else that's out there and it's not just within
And so, we've been through many periods of time that have had them.
happen to them exactly what's happening now.
If this demographic group learns to link together the way that
The difference now is we have advanced technology to they're starting to, and work together, they're a bigger group than
understand it differently. We have mass communications to know anybody ever would believe.
what's happening immediately. Some people didn't know about
Krakatoa -- which was for some the end of the world, you know - KC: Mm hm.
- for years afterwards. So, what is happening now isn't all that
different than what's happened throughout history.
MS: And they absolutely can do everything that's being asked of
them to turn it around. But it's up to them. As I can say, I can
The difference is that we have a Mayan prophecy that is scaring give you an admission to a wonderful college, but you may not
the pants off of people. We have the world where we're able to go. You may take a different pathway. That's basically what’s in
see it in a way we have not been able to see it before. front of us.
We have environmental tragedy happening every day, with So, our group incarnational lesson right now is to find each other,
species disappearing, and mass pieces of land just melting away. collaborate, work together, get rid of the pettiness that has
We have a lot of things happening that we know about. And so, plagued mankind, and start doing things on small platforms or
the environment is pushing us in a vast direction very quickly. big platforms -- not waiting for permission from anybody, just
And we're all able to know about this through this grand internet, going forward and going.
and telecommunications...
KC: Mm hm.
KC: That's right.
MS: Because, as a lot of your audience really tends to tap into,
MS: ...and through our Blackberries, and whatever else we're the clock does seem to be ticking at five minutes to midnight.
using, our I-phones. So we have almost, like, everything that And you know what? Even if we have another 17 hours on that
we've been through in different cycles of time before, coming clock, what we need to do will be beneficial. So, if we have five
into the greatest culmination right now. minutes to midnight, or we have a long time in front of us, it
doesn't matter.
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We need to get going and we need to act. And that's why I've But at the same time, you don't look at it the way you've been
been so busy and I haven't been able to be out and talking to doing it. You look at it as: How's the world changing? How's this
people and doing what needs to be done, is because I'm prepping 21st century vision different in terms of how the food delivery
these human seeds everywhere so they go out and cascade and system’s going to be? Are we going to be working off the planet?
reach a lot of people. Are we going to be working on-planet? What kind of scarcities
are there gonna be?
KC: Mm hm.
So you need to look at an entire array of situations to see where
Bill Ryan (BR): We interviewed George Green... In April we you have the best opportunity to be positioned.
interviewed George Green, who is a contactee as well, as you
know. And his sources tell him that it's nearly too late. He refers A lot of times people have an inkling and they really know.
to the group of people who are aware, and alert, and awakened, That's when they need the hard business sense in terms of: OK.
as the Ground Crew -- it's just his typology for that. And he wrote How do I make this happen for real, in terms of, you know, I
a book called... need to know certain ways to get my talents out there, or my
products out there, or my services out there, and get them to the
MS: What a great name. I like it. people who need them?
BR: ...Messages for the Ground Crew. And this is one of the Now this goes back to, again, in terms of there's this entire new
things that inspired us to launch Project Avalon, which is focused demographic that is out there which is, I'm going to just boldly
on communities, awakening, resources, communication, say, us. We have different appetites. It's like all of a sudden, you
networking, sharing information. know, everyone's eating meat and you want sushi. [Kerry
laughs] We have different appetites in terms of what we want and
what we want the world to be. So this is where we're now feeding
Are you just saying, actually, it's OK? You know, it'll all be fine? our own demographic group and creating this world that's
burgeoning out.
MS: No.
So you say you want hard answers. So does everybody else. But
BR: Because, whatever happens, it's gonna work out? it's a little bit different for each person based on… [to Bill] You
might be best at terra-forming. [to Kerry] You might be best in
MS: No. I'm saying there’s a call to action right now. terms of going back into, maybe L.A., and making some key
contacts, and re-defining the vision in terms of what people are
going to be feeding on demographically.
BR: So what is the action? If I'm watching this video, and I'm
smart, and I'm aware, and I'm alert, I'm focused, and I'm flexible,
now what do I do? Where do I go? What should my strategy be? KC: Mm hm.
What advice do you give me personally about this? Because I
want something more specific, because I'm very … I mean, this MS: And so, you know, I've got… I do… I have people who are
isn't me personally speaking. But what I often do in these working with major foundations. I have people who are working
interviews is I ask questions that we're asked to ask. within Hollywood and L.A. I have people in major... I gotta be
careful here... PR areas and banking, and, you know, all sorts of
We get these messages every day. People say: What do I do? things where they are doing things new and differently and
How can I help? How can I contribute? I’ve got a feeling of applying their skills.
responsibility for the human race. Tell me what this call to action
should be. Help me be focused. And they're not just in the United Sates. Because there's a lot of
things going on in other countries that are making a difference in
MS: On a one-to-one basis, what I do, basically, is that I look at terms of, you know, the awakened group down there.
what your reincarnational lessons have been. But then I also take
a look at: What have you done in terms of your skill-set? Where KC: Well let me ask you this. Are you, yourself, going through
is your knowledge? And where is your expertise, that we can any kind of change? Any kind of…
really position you, that you are really gonna make a difference?
But add to the mix of that: What do you want to do? MS: Dilemmas! [laughs]
And usually you can take the three things, in terms of your life KC: ...dilemmas as a result of what’s been going on? Because
and soul purpose and lessons, your experience that you've we talked to you a year ago, and I can look at you and see that
garnered along the pathway, and what you want to do, and come you've gone through some changes.
up with some way to position you so that you're a New World, a
New Paradigm, entrepreneur.
MS: [laughs] I'm gettin' older! [continues laughing]
So it's different for every single person, you know, just like we
have doctors, and we have pharmacists, and we have bicycle KC: No! I mean, at least appearance-wise, it looks very positive.
makers, and we have grocery store people, and we have farmers. I'm curious. And I'm sure that people would like to know: How
are you affected by this change?
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MS: On a personal level… I'll be happy to share. My diet has So that's what the information has been given to me, is to… We
changed significantly in terms of what I am able to digest and have to understand how to be powerful and effective
able to eat. Sleep patterns have changed. My strength and stamina communicators. So when we talk about these radiation influences
has changed. It’s almost as if it was time to get ready,get yourself and things impacting the planet, we've got to remind people that
back in shape again. it's not just Woo-hoo, you know, out there. It really does happen.
So, there's been changes on multiple tracks in terms of We can get skin cancer from an orb that is billions of miles away.
consciousness, my consciousness, my energy levels, the work There are radiation belts that surround the Earth. So, what makes
that I'm doing. And it’s just a microcosm of what's going on with it so far out to consider that there are different radiation and
everybody that I know. Even people who aren't on the cosmic influences impacting the planet, and impacting us as a
enlightenment path are facing massive changes. human species who's on it right now?
KC: Mm hm. So, what we're finding is that, as you alluded to, that people are
finding life very different. They're feeling different. They're
MS: So that brings us into something that we haven't talked having issues in terms of tiredness. They're having issues in terms
about, and that’s what's going on in terms of cosmic radiation, of energy. They're having dietary issues -- almost as if they feel
energy forces affecting the Earth. like they're being transmuted in some way.
KC: Exactly. But we have to really watch in how we explain that and talk
about that so that it does make sense to other people, because
then they'll just say: Oh, you're a woman. You're going through a
MS: We are definitely receiving different streams. And it's been certain stage of life. Or: Oh, you're a man. You're just tired.
detailed that this was gonna happen at this point in time, and it's You're wearing out. It's aging. Etcetera. It isn't necessarily aging,
making people respond differently. is it?
KC: Right. So we're going into the center, the Galactic Center. KC: Absolutely not.
As we move towards that, we've got waves of energy coming
towards us and... Can you talk about that?
MS: We think something's going on. We think we're changing at
a cellular level.
MS: Yeah. I think it's a good thing to talk about because it's
interesting, how you're going to talk about it with two different
groups. When I talk to a group that’s on what I call the KC: Exactly. The DNA is changing.
enlightenment path, the initiate path, we can go right into it and
talk about it like that. [snaps fingers] MS: Well, wait a minute. Let me interrupt you. We don't know
that. That is a New Age assumption. Because I have not seen one
I got news for you -- we're all here for the swing vote. And so, study of research that's shown any mutational impact whatsoever.
our job right now is not as much to work within our own group, But is anybody really looking at it on a mass basis?
but to get those people that are curious and want to know more
and willing to look through the door at this greater reality of KC: Right. Exactly.
what's out there, and start asking questions, and live life
differently. MS: We don't know. So I'm also really hesitant, because I do
have this whole background, this whole medical background, of
KC: Mm hm. walking both worlds. Is it possible that our DNA's changing?
Yes. And I've expected it in our lifetime. But nobody's tracking
MS: And so, when we talk about things… like we talk about it. There's no scientific evidence of it.
radiation, cosmic influences affecting the Earth, “we” can speak
about it one way, but it’s gonna sound so far-out to this other And the whole mythology of this 12-strand DNA is not
group, they're gonna close their ears and be turned off. necessarily applicable to the Earth human.
So when we're talking amongst ourselves we can address it a The power of the genetics lies within the codons and the codon
certain way, but if we're talking to a group where we want to sequences and the radiation frequency that comes out within each
open up to other people, now we start thinking about: OK, make elial. An elial is a mixture of the chemical bases that make up
it in terms that they can understand. your DNA. And so, that's where the power lies within, and that's
where I believe the changes are.
The reason I’m bringing this up is I want the audience to
understand that these are things that they need to be doing, One of the natural ways of mutation... one of the four natural
because so many people have good information, but they can't get ways… is radiation. That's how we get spontaneous genetic
it past their own small group. And we have to start spreading out mutation.
more.
So, I do believe, and I know that you've read my writings, that
that is what's happening now, as I've been told was going to
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happen. What we need is… we DO need somebody tracking the KC: Sure.
human on this planet and seeing are there evolutionary processes
going on? But there's no money, there's no research, there's no MS: From what I understand, we've had major changes
foundation doing that. astrologically, with some aspects that haven't been around for a
couple of hundred years, that tend to color and influence
At the same time, we do have to be careful when we make these generations of people that grow up under it.
assumptions as we're changing. I think it's important to say: I
believe, I think we're changing, but until I see the actual genetic Astrology, I think, has an absolute foundation to it. I don't think
evidence of somebody doing a study showing mutational changes, we necessarily read: Oh, this is a me. I'm a Gemini today and I
then I'm going to look at it a little differently. On my own should do what the newspaper says. But as a more complex
personal belief system? Yeah. We're changing. I do believe we process, it's been around for thousands of year. And I think
are. there's some foundation to it.
KC: OK. Well, you can also see it in your own life. I mean, I Plus, with the extraterrestrial teachings that I've had, they've
have to say, here we are a year later. Bob [Dean] is looking gotten into it somewhat, saying that… At one time, if I remember
healthier than he was a year ago. I don't know… He's got a new correctly, they were telling me how... the way that the Moon
lease on life. He's going out. He's going to be speaking. We impacts the ocean and has that influence on the tides, that the
thought last year was his last interview. actual planetary influences have an impact on our cellular
components within ourselves.
I see changes. I see physical changes in the people around me. I
just can't ignore it, and I think that they are feeling the changes. I don't remember. I'd have to go look it up and read what I had as
So these are real. I see it. In my own body I see it. I mean, it's notes. But I remember that they were pointing me to, that there
phenomenal. really was a foundation to astrological influences on the human
being.
MS: They're changing physically. They're changing emotionally.
You'll also see a lot of relationships -- I've seen more marriages So, there's those major changes that are coming in that affect
and relationships on the rocks and breaking up than I've ever seen generations that could be an impetus for this.
in my entire lifetime. You see it emotionally.
As far as astronomy, we have what's called the end of the Kali
And I've also seen a LOT -- a lot -- of people have life and death Yuga. We're coming to the end of a major cycle. And we do tend
situations, where a lot of people were all of a sudden… they were to forget that we’re on a planet hurtling through space, that is
tremendously healthy, and they're facing cancer, and they're moving.
walking through that whole cancer process. And many of them,
thank God, are coming through it and clearing it through their
own processes, which I think is very empowering. We just tend to look out the window and see our car parked out
there and traffic going by, or look at the four walls and see our
immediate surroundings. But we're on a space vehicle. And we're
KC: Right. moving, as if we were a boat in the ocean.
MS: So there's a lot going on. We're moving through space. And as a result of that, we are
going through different areas, different zones that have different
KC: Yeah. So we've gone from the waves of energy coming at influences, just like, if we were on that ocean, and we were
the Earth, and we've talked about it in a little more practical suddenly coming to a region that was characterized by great
terms. You're fairly sophisticated scientifically, so you've also storm activity. And then we would get through it and go on to a
addressed that slightly. region that may have calmer waters.
But what are we doing, as a planet, in your estimation? Can you That's pretty much where we're at right now. And I think we're all
describe the astronomy to people, such that they will understand? feeling that effect. And, you know, it's a little bit of chaos. But I
Both gamuts -- in other words, the people that are watching this think chaos can be a good thing, because otherwise, you’d just
that are new to the whole notion, and the people that are sort of stay where you're at. And where we have been has not necessarily
old hands but they have maybe not skewed it in their own minds been that great in the past.
in the way that you might. Do you know what I'm saying?
We have tremendous advantages that we haven't had, but at the
MS: Stop me if I'm not going in the direction that I think you same time, we're not paying attention to the full picture. And we
want me to go in here. But when you talk about the astrology, have to respect the entire cycle of life on this planet, and really
one of the impacts that… pay attention to the extinction of species that is going on, the
environmental decimation that's taking place.
KC: Astronomy. Not astrology. But astrology would be very
interesting as well. And the human being has to really get its act together if they
want to continue to be the leading harbinger on this planet of the
MS: Actually, they both come in, because… Well, let me talk species kingdom.
about astrology for a second.
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KC: OK. So, what do you think the chances are that we're gonna MS: No. It hasn't been for a long time.
avoid nuclear war in the near future?
BR: ... the same group controls both sides. So actually, it’s a
MS: I honestly don't know. farce. I mean, this isn't a real election anyway. It’s not a question
of polarization. It’s a question of dialectic, isn't it? That they use
KC: OK. these “apparent opposites” to keep people busy in television
debates, where actually the whole thing is engineered.
MS: I honestly don't know. I would like to think they're very
good, [laughs] but I honestly don't know. MS: Our whole life is engineered. I mean, the human history is
SO different than it’s has been given to us. And so, what has been
happening is – always -- you keep the human distracted, and you
KC: OK. And what about the United States, the political system? can do whatever you want.
Do you have high hopes for us in the future here?
KC: Mm hm.
MS: [pantomimes herself] She scratches her head. [laughs]
MS: And so that's why we need to get the human to understand
It’s very easy to be negative about it. What we're seeing, though, what really goes on in this planet, who they really are, so they
is we don't have the patience any more for the two-party system. can take the power back within themselves and stop behaving
It doesn't work. I mean, we've had the Tories and the Whigs. You like the herd species, the slave-race mentality, always accepting
know, we've had two parties, either/or, polarization, you know, mediocrity, and not doing what's right.
left or right, black or white.
We kill off our best and our brightest all the time! I mean, if you
I think we've grown beyond the two-party system. I'd like to have look through our history. Anyone that stands on the fringe, and
just one party, if it worked! [Kerry laughs]. You know, if they anybody who's been an innovative leader, has usually ended up in
could get something done. the stocks, on the chopping block, or is wasting away in prison,
tortured.
I think the… especially in the United States, the start of America,
the Founding Fathers, the American Revolution… it was We don't revere our great ones. WE KILL 'EM OFF! The human
brilliant! I have the greatest respect for that time. But what it has species loves mediocrity. It’s time for that to change, I think. I
descended into is, really, this huge bureaucracy that just doesn't prefer to stay optimistic.
work.
KC: All right. Well, thank you, Marcia.
I've worked in the private sector, and I've spent many years in
government, so I know what goes on. And it’s just… Big
corporations, too; they're just strangled by bureaucracy. When MS: You’re welcome. [laughs]
you're in crisis, you don't have time for that.
KC: This has been a lot of fun and actually quite enlightening. I
BR: But the problem's not bureaucracy. The problem is that it's think that people will find it very valuable.
been taken over like a Punch and Judy show. And it's not a real
democracy anyway because... MS: It's been a delight talking to you again. Thank you.
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Project Camelot:
Jessica, Crystal Child Interview Transcript
Jessica Schab - A Crystal Child Speaks Out
Sedona, Arizona, December 2008
Jessica Schab (J): Yes. That’s correct.
K: OK. And Jessica is… A Crystal Child is what she calls

herself.
J: Mm hm.
K: And we’re really excited to be able to talk to her today. So,

Jessica, tell me a little bit about yourself and, kind of, a little bit
about your journey. And she’s had a very interesting time
growing up. And at this time you’re about, almost 26. Is that
right?
J: Yes. [nodding agreement] That’s correct.
K: OK. So, why don’t you tell me, like the early childhood kind
We met Jessica at the NEXUS conference in Australia in October of thing, with the relationship with your father, and how you sort
2008. She was in tears at the end of our presentation and said that of tapped into all of this?
she had to talk with us. A young Australian had seen her home-
made YouTube video and had generously personally sponsored J: All right. I was very, very shy growing up. I actually didn’t fit
her long trip from Vancouver to Brisbane. We salute him for this, in, surprisingly. I didn’t really have friends, of my age. I actually
and he knows who he is. did have a lot of grannies which I adopted. I had 50. And they
taught me how to knit and crochet and things like that. I retreated
We realized that it might be interesting (and valuable to many) to a lot into cartoons and…
interview Jessica. Seeing her as a Crystal Child, we took the
decision to include her among our cadre of witnesses as a It really came about when I was 16. That was the big “trigger,” if
representative of the younger and very awakened generation who you will. Before that, though, I do remember saying things in
are well-informed, deeply concerned about world events, and school like: Angels are aliens, and aliens are angels. But…
aware of the need for mankind to grow spiritually in order to
transcend the myriad of problems we all face together. K: So, you would say this in school?
J: Yes.
In this 50 minute video Jessica speaks openly and emotionally
about her personal journey, her family, and some of the K: And what would be the reaction of the children around you?
bewildering experiences she has encountered. Her weaknesses
are her dyslexia, and that she has not yet fully integrated her J: Oh, laughter, ridicule. Yeah. Mm hm. [nodding]
many experiences and perceptions; her strengths are her openness
and her determination to bring a message to those who can hear it K: OK. And why would you say that?
from her. She sees herself as a newly-arrived teacher and a
messenger, and she probably is both of those things. J: You know what? I really didn’t know.
Like all of us, she still has a long way to go in her journey, and K: OK.
has much to learn. But this is why we are all here, and the choice
we make is to help one another as best we can. We are delighted J: It was almost like channeling, but I wasn’t aware I was
to help present her message to the world. channeling.
http://www.jessicamystic.ca/ K: OK.
J: I just started sharing this information, and it was even before I

Start of interview knew what was going on with my father. So, ah, just thinking
back to it, that’s kind of interesting and different. [laughs]
Kerry Cassidy (K): Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot,
and today we are here with Jessica Schab. Is that how you say K: Uh huh. OK. So what happened then? I mean, obviously this
your name? is what you did in the early days. How did you progress at that
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point? Because I know there’s a part at which you actually kind J: First year of high school. And I just started to realize: Wait a
of tried to reject that world. Can you talk about that a little bit? second here. There’s a lot they’re not saying. And why can’t we
talk about it? Why do we get in trouble if we bring this stuff up?
J: Well, yeah, because when you first get into this information, it
brings about an existential breakdown. You let go of everything K: OK.
you think you know about yourself, and the world, and
everybody. So it is, in a sense, a little bit of a death. And also a J: All right?
rebirth. You’re an empty cup now, an empty vessel to be filled.
K: So, what happened after that?
K: Be a little more specific in terms of your experience. Because
I know that you had a tragedy in your life. But prior to that, J: I kinda disregarded it. Like I didn’t really pay too much
because that happened kind of like in your late teens… attention to it. It was just always in the back of the brain. And it’s
almost like a detective -- you’re collecting all these bits and
J: Yes. pieces as you go on the way. And, still very blind.
K: You had sort of a dilemma. So, can you describe what your So we always… We have a trigger. And my trigger was when I
father was like, and how that dilemma kind of came ’round in was 16. It was tragedy. My sister ended up passing away. And,
your life? ah, [speaking very quietly] her friend was drinking and driving –
and it was just my sister that went. So it was just her time, and…
J: He was very distant. He was connected to a world that I
wasn’t familiar with, at the time. And he spoke about things that I K: OK. And how did that affect you? I mean, obviously, you
really didn’t understand, also. But he was you know, very, very, know, it’s distressing and we don’t have to dwell on it here. But,
like passionate, and loving as well. But, um… sorry [smiling] … at the same time, I think that it has something to do with your
I’m a little nervous. willingness to perhaps let in these other worlds. Would you say
that?
Well, I can say, beforehand, I was always a little bit suspicious in
school. I felt like… I didn’t like being taught what to think rather J: Yes, because I realized that… I was very depressed at that
than how to think. It was always in the back of my mind. And, time. And I was also very Christian-thinking, in the sense that I
also just… It kind of felt like I was coming off the assembly-line? felt that, you know, everybody who parties and does drugs and
And I remember trying to ask about things that I… things like that is bad, and I don’t want to converse with them.
Not all Christians think like that, but that was just the way my
I would notice that there was just stuff we weren’t being taught head-space was and my interpretation of that.
about in school. For example, in Grade 8, they were saying the
only kind of matter is gas, solid, and liquid. And I raised my hand So, when she passed away and I was listening to her friends
and I said: Well, what about plasma? And you know what she speak about her at the funeral… They were talking about this
said? Go to detention. wonderful girl that I never got to know because I shut her out,
’cause I was very judgmental. So, right then and there I just
K: Go to detention? Really? vowed to myself that I was never going to judge people by what
they did. That wasn’t who they really were. You know, it’s just
J: Yeah. So, um… experiences that we come here for.
K: Very interesting. And you grew up in what area? It was a very devastating time when my sister passed away, in
that it destroyed the family. My mother ended up getting worse --
J: Well, I was born in Winterpeg, [Canada] but I left when I was very bad migraines. I mean, she had migraines before, but they
7. And the Vancouver area, the suburbs. seemed to be more frequent, and lasted longer, and more severe.
And my father ended up getting a stroke!
K: OK.
And the family broke apart. My brother went to university. My
J: Mm hm. other brother went to a foster home. We became homeless.
K: So, you were told to go to detention because you talked about So it was a lot, all at once. And, you know, I think I just became
plasma. [laughs] very traumatized. You know, it almost didn’t seem real.
J: Yes. K: OK. You told me that your father had a big influence…
K: And that’s, you know… I mean, so they actually didn’t have J: Yes.
any clue about that. And we’re talking what year, approximately?
Do you remember? K: …on your, sort of, letting ETs communicate with you.
J: I was in Grade 8. Yes. J: Yes. [nodding agreement]
K: OK. K: Can you talk to me about that story?
J: Yes. Right after my sister passed away, my dad said: She’s

come back. And she started to speak to him. And she started…
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she said that it’s a very exciting time to be alive. The universe is K: So he had these experiences after he had the stroke, is what
like a big garden. There’s lots of tending here. I’ve come back to you’re saying?
let you know that certain members of the family have been called
for a very specific mission. J: Yeah. So I thought… [points with her left index finger
upward]
And she was, like, the introduction towards a whole bunch of
other beings coming through. So, after my sister started coming K: He must have recovered fairly well, though, to be able to
through – the catalyst – then came angels, nature spirits, communicate. I mean, he didn’t have, like, speech impairment or
Ascended Masters, extraterrestrials. It just got really, really out- anything like that from the stroke?
there! [laughs]
J: He did, a bit. Yeah.
K: OK. When you say this happened, did this happen to you? Or
did this happen to your father? K: OK.
J: This happened to my father. J: Mm hm.
K: OK. K: But he was able to communicate this to you?
J: It all happened to my father first. J: Yeah.
K: So, he’s very open, talking to you about this? K: Uh huh.
J: Well, he was really shocked and taken aback, you know. It J: Mm hm. [nodding agreement]
was exciting. And he just had to share with the family because he
didn’t really… I don’t know if he knew what to make of it at that K: OK. So you rejected it in the beginning. What made you
time. But he knew that he needed to share this because it was a change your mind?
big thing to my sister.
J: A lot of things.
The interesting thing about how she came back was… Mediums
can only speak to people who’ve passed away if they haven’t K: OK.
crossed over. She had crossed over. And then she came right
back. J: It was not something that I was gonna quickly be open to
because I really, really wanted to be normal. Hmm. And it was
K: OK. When you say she came right back, what do you mean never going to happen.
by that? Do you mean she was reincarnated in another body and
coming to you from there? Or do you mean that she was in K: OK.
another dimension?
J: I just had to… It took me a while to get to that. But, ah, he
J: She was in another dimension. wanted to tell me about his experiences, and all these beings that
were coming through, and what they were saying. And they were
K: OK. talking a lot about me.
J: Yes. The fifth. And my dad described her as… a very, very K: OK.
bright white light-being appeared to him. Like an angel. And he
said it was very much her personality, because she’s like: Look, J: [laughs] And I did not know what to think of this. I really
Dad! Don’t I look pretty? [laughing]. Like a girl would say. So… wanted nothing to do with it.
K: Uh huh. And so, I would just go to the library or the book store, and books
would start falling off the shelf, with the same kind of context,
J: Yeah. It was, you know, something you gotta share. information, that these beings were speaking to my dad about.
Something really amazing happened. They’d fall right at my feet!
K: OK. And what was your reaction when your father talked And again, I was still very Christian-thinking, so I’m like: This is
about this? the devil. So I just ran out, freaked out. And it was funny that…
J: I was very hurt, very upset. Because she’s passed away, you K: How did you get over that, though, if you were such… if you
know? It’s like dumping salt on this wound, you know? It’s just: had this mind-set that was Christian thinking? How did you sort
Ha, ha. Not very funny at all, Dad, you know. of move beyond that?
Particularly ’cause he had a stroke. And when he had the stroke, J: Oh, I’ll get into that. That’s coming up.
he didn’t know who we were. He couldn’t work. You know, I felt
like I lost my father. And so, now to talk about something like K: OK.
this, you know… You’re crazy. You don’t know what you’re
talking about! J: So, I would just, you know, go walking down the street and
people would come up to me, people I knew and people I didn’t
330
know. And they would hand me the books! Again -- same kind of
information that… like the ones that my dad was talking about, J: And I just kind of realized that this is never going to let up.
similar to the context of the books in the library and bookstore. Something is trying to get my attention and I have to surrender.
And what was interesting thing about this is, some of the people, K: Did you watch those tapes?
when I asked: Why are you giving me this book of…? You know?
And they’re like: I don’t know. J: I did.
How do you not know why you’re giving somebody a book? K: OK. And did it change you?
Unless you’re being inspired?
J: Um, I became very, very depressed. Even more so. Because…
K: OK. again, letting go of everything you think you know. But then, also
it seems to be this huge, scary conspiracy, like we’re doomed.
J: And I, still, would not look at the books. And so, it required It’s, you know, this huge control game going on, and there’s
those beings to be even more persistent. I like to call it “Angelic nothing you can do about it, because you don’t have the power,
Kick in the Butt.” or the money, or say, in a sense.
Where I was working… I’d been working in the film industry. K: OK.
Right after my sister passed away, I left school because my
parents… they were just, you know, they weren’t able to work. J: Yeah.
So I decided that, you know: We go to school to learn how to
make money. I’m out of school. I’m out of this. K: And so, what did you do then? How did you go from there to
actually listening to your father?
And I went into the film industry right away. My very first day of
“extra”, work I got lines. And so I thought that was normal. J: Hmm. Well, after the videos, and after feeling the way I did
[laughs] The next day, I’m like: When do I get my lines? And about them, and just constant reoccurring of Pleiadians… You
they’re like: You don’t! know: OK, Dad, who are the Pleiadians? Why do they want to
get in contact with me?
So… ah, where was I going with that?
So I started finding out now, really listening to my dad. And I
K: So, what happened? What did you do then? You didn’t get wasn’t necessarily open to it, but I wasn’t necessarily closed. I
lines. Are you saying you just became an extra? was just thinking that, ah…: This is my experience. For whatever
reason, life has taken this turn, and it’s for a reason. So I
J: I did extra work. I did acting, I did stunts. I did stand-in. I did should… I should do some investigating.
crew work.
K: OK. And how old were you at this time?
K: OK.
J: I’d say about 17. Yeah.
J: Set dec. [ed. note: Set decoration.] I did as many different
things, to remove politics, and understand where everybody was K: OK.
coming from. That was something that I always was interested in
doing, is learning all the different perspectives, and… J: A year later. And my dad actually started to talk about his
experiences, that he actually was aware of this stuff before his
K: OK. And so, when did the transition happen, where you stroke. It was just a bigger upgrade for him.
started to listen to what your father said?
But I found out that when he was 8, he was taken up on a UFO,
J: On set, on a show called Da Vinci’s Inquest, a guy came up to and the whole family on the farm saw this as well. And they put a
me I’d never seen in my entire life. And he said to me: Is your chip in his brain? And this chip… he didn’t believe that it was
name Jessica? actually there. He thought it was a dream or something until ah,
not too long ago.
And I said: Mm hm. [nodding her head in agreement]
Before his stroke, I believe that he mentioned, he was in the
He said: Is your last name Schab? hospital. And there was a woman there that… Well, she seemed
to be a nurse, but she wasn’t, ’cause she went up to my dad right
Yeah. away and she said: You have to leave. She brought him his
clothes. She said: If – they’re planning on scanning your brain. If
And is your parents’ name Roseanne and Terry? they scan your brain, they’ll find the chip.
Yeah. How do you know all this? And my dad’s like: Wait a second! That’s real?
And he’s like: OK. This is for you. And he gave me all these And she said: This cannot happen. So, come on. It’s time to go.
tapes on the CIA, underground militia, David Icke, Jordan
Maxwell, Alex Collier, and then some. [laughs] But my dad actually didn’t get out on time. So, right when they
were about to scan his brain, the whole hospital had a blackout.
K: OK. And when the power went back on, the CAT-scan machine didn’t
331
work. And then, when it did work, it worked on everybody but

him. And that gave him enough time to make his escape from the K: You’re learning about ETs… And what happened that
hospital. actually sort of progressed you to where it wasn’t just your father
having experiences but you started to have them?
K: OK. Very interesting. So…
J: OK. Wow. Well, while I started to learn about the ETs, I’m
J: Yeah. still… I’m actually really still upset with my father because he
left the church and I was still kinda Christian at that time. Right?
K: Now, this woman… Did she disappear? Was she still on Trying to hold onto this! And so, I kept going to different
the… churches and I felt really annoyed because I couldn’t find one
where I fit in.
J: Yeah, she disappeared. My dad went back to find, you know,
who… if he could speak to her again. And she was only there that And so I decided to explore different religions. And I went to
one time. She completely vanished. those churches; still didn’t quite fit in. There was… Something
felt off, and I couldn’t put my finger on it. So then I went into
K: OK. mysticism because this seemed to be along the lines of what my
dad was talking about, of what it seemed these beings were trying
J: And there’s been a few, actually, events like that where… to relay to me. But still that didn’t quite feel right and I didn’t
These people would come to our door and my dad would say: quite fit in.
Jess, go follow them. And I did. And they just vanished! [shrugs
and raises hands] And I knew that to try to… I knew that one day I would be
explaining this to people. So I decided to even explore atheism.
K: They just vanished? Again, same thing, I still didn’t quite fit in. But there still…
J: Yeah. Yeah. I couldn’t deny any of them, either, because they all seemed to be
pieces of myself. So what I did was, I started to embrace all of
K: So he’d say: Follow them? them. And I realized that I’m not just one, and to pigeon-hole
myself into one is a great disservice.
J: Right into thin air. I’d turn the corner and I’d see them…
Poof’! K: OK.
K: OK. J: So these new insights started coming through. This is really

where I started to see the world very differently. And everyday,
J: And my dad, he would have experiences where… He could little, things started to become really big.
see these beings all the time. He would be in a parking lot and
suddenly all these angels would be surrounding him. So he had For example, one time I came home and I was very upset about
many experiences like that. And he always tried to interpret it and this reoccurring problem – like: Why does this keep happening to
explain it to us, which was very, very fascinating. It started to me? And, it’s funny, I don’t even know what it is to this day. So,
become, you know: OK. Wow. Something is going on here. And, really big? Right? [laughing]
um…
But, it popped into my head: Boggle. Go get the game, Boggle.
K: What did your father do for a living before he had a stroke? I’m like: Huh? Boggle? What the heck does that have to do with
anything? [Kerry laughs] That’s kind of a weird, random tangent.
J: My father was a businessman. He had his own company called
Beverly Hill Homes, which he ran with my mother, and it was But, I went and got it. And then I got, you know: Shake it up, find
very successful. And then… He was a master of many things, a some words. And I found like ten. And I’m like: All right. Well,
jack-of-all-trades. In Winterpeg, he built houses. He designed that’s done, and I don’t really understand the point of this.
them, architecture-wise, and he also put it together, carpentry.
And they were very beautiful homes, as well. One, of which I And when I put it down, I got up and I turned around, and I saw
have fond memories, is the Castle House. the board from another angle? And I saw all these other words I
didn’t see before. I’m like: Wait a second. AndI walked around. I
And he also was a chemist. He invented “mendable concrete,” saw, you know, more from the other angle, and more from the
like… Because he was very honest and trustworthy, he ended up other angle, till I found, I think, 55.
getting taken, and somebody stole that idea and took it to China.
And that really devastated my mother. They ended up losing all And then it said: OK. Well now you know why this problem keeps
their money, really having nothing. And then my father, through reoccurring. You’re only looking at it from one perspective, one
the latter years, he made furniture, cutesy kind of furniture. angle.
K: OK. I was like: Oh my goodness! Wow! And: Where did this come
from?
J: Yeah.
And then it just popped into my head: Allow us to introduce
K: So, you’re in this situation. Your sister has passed. ourselves. We are your guides.
J: Mm hm.
332
And every time I tried to ask them who exactly they were, I got a you need that kind of support. So, I might get a bit emotional
different answer. And so I thought at one point they were playing about saying this…
with me. But, in a sense, they didn’t wanna be locked into labels.
In the beginning, you know, we introduced myself as a Crystal K: That’s OK.
Child. But, you know, there’s Indigo, Light-Worker, Star-Seed.
And also just Jessica. J: On Christmas day, the whole family was around, and I just felt
so hurt and upset by my dad that I told him: I hate you. Why don’t
K: Uh huh. you just die, already? And he did.
J: Right? So, they’re all labels. When it comes down to it, K: OK…
they’re all pieces of ourself.
J: Umm, and I…
K: Mm hm.
K: You say he did. Can you be a little more specific as to how?
J: I mean, in school I was always told that I was stupid, and I What happened?
believed it.
J: A week later he had a brain hemorrhage, and he went in for
K: What? When you say you were told you were stupid, who brain surgery. And he didn’t recover.
told you that?
K: OK. So how did you, sort of, view that experience?
J: My teachers. Why? Because I was put in the special classes --
a “slow learner.” [drawing quotation marks in the air] And the J: Well, I knew about how our thoughts create reality before
students. And because I was very dyslexic and I learned very What the Bleep came out. This information was being given to
differently… me by my dad’s “being”, since I sat, you know, and listened to
what they were saying. I knew that there’s a huge responsibility
K: OK. to what we’re putting out, and how powerful it is, that in a sense
it is magic.
J: … and I couldn’t see things the way they did. And also I
didn’t have an interest to. It’s just so boring, you know? This is K: Mm hm.
not going to stimulate the soul, you know? It starves that part of
us. J: So when I said that, I was so wracked with guilt, and so mad at
myself, and so upset with these beings who were working with
K: OK. So… but to get back to your story. You’re in a position me. I felt that they chose the wrong person to do this mission,
where you’re starting to hear from your guides. You’ve heard because I demonstrated myself as unworthy. You get told that
stories from your father. this is the power that you have: Your thoughts create, you know,
your reality. Pay attention to them. And then you go and do
J: Mm hm. [nodding agreement] something like that, in so seeming unconscious measure.
K: So at what point were you actually sort of convinced that K: OK. But did you also allow for the freedom of the other
possibly what he was seeing was real, and those personages person? Their… sort of as a sovereign entity? In other words, that
started to be appearing for you, or become real, for you? person being your father, having a choice in whether to die or
not?
J: They never quite, like, appeared to me in the way my dad’s
did. But, I just started… Like what I was sharing with… in J: I didn’t see that until later on. See, what happened was, I
school about being told I was stupid. It stayed like that until, you didn’t want anything to do with the beings after that, just because
know… That was my paradigm. That’s what everybody saw me I felt so hurt by what I did that I… like unworthy, like I said. But
as. they still wouldn’t leave me alone.
Until one day it dawned on me that, you know, someone’s And they said: You don’t understand, You’re only seeing it from
opinion of me doesn’t have to be my reality. And when that one perspective, you know. You’re feeling very hard on yourself
happened, everything shifted. Nobody saw me as stupid anymore. and it’s not necessary. You don’t understand on the soul level
But it doesn’t mean I still don’t have that part. Like, these are all what’s occurring. Even though you told him out of anger what
facets of what makes us human. So I couldn’t really judge you told him, on a soul level you said, “It’s OK, Dad. You can go
anybody anymore because I saw myself in each one of them, no now. We’ll be fine.”
matter what they did.
And that I had a contract with him that I would help him go when
And what really took it to the next level, actually, was the time came. And that he did want to leave, but he didn’t want
[hesitantly] … um… This is very, very hard to share. But it’s to go unless he knew that we would be OK. And I did just that.
very important to share.
K: OK. So you were able to kind of forgive yourself and allow
Even though I was starting to become open to it, I was still very for that occurrence to happen, and to have been part of your
upset with my dad. Because what I wanted more than anything reality, in other words?
was just a normal Dad, and… to be a father, and not to be lost to
this world, even though it was exciting. You’re still a child. And J: Yes. Yeah.
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K: OK. And what about the rest of your family? How did they age. And you think that, if they’re open to this information, that
view his passing, at that point? they might… They must be The One! They’re near your age,
opposite sex. That’s all you need!
J: It devastated my mother. My mother still hasn’t recovered
from it. My oldest brother just distanced himself away from the So I told my mom I’m going to France to meet this guy I’ve
family, like… ’Cause he witnessed that. I don’t know if he even never met but I’m in love with. And I’m going, even though I
forgives me to this day of what I said to Dad, because he can’t know that it’s going to cost about… like everybody’s telling me
understand or see it the way I do now. three grand, you know, minimum. I said: I’m going to go for less
than $900. And I did.
My other brother… he was upset with Dad, too. So, he actually
talked about, you know, just not being happy with Mom being When I called the travel agent, she said: We have nothing
with Dad. And Steve was too young to really know what was available – Oh, except this… It just popped up. It looks like
going on. somebody cancelled for three weeks, for, what was it now? $850.
K: OK. So your father passed on and you were having some Yeah. I’m like: That was the one. That’s the one.
interactions with various beings and getting information.
K: OK. And you’ve also done this now… you’ve sort of
J: Yeah. followed this kind of pattern since then…
K: But what happened after that? Did it increase? Did you… J: Yes!
J: Oh yeah. It just kept increasing nonstop. I just had to keep… I K: …in allowing things to come to you, and knowing…
felt very, very guided, suddenly, after my dad passed away, that
he planted a whole bunch of seeds within me, and I needed to J: Yes!
take care of all these seeds now. I needed to make sure they had
light and water and… K: …sort of having a second sense about that? Is that right?
K: Were you sharing your experiences with your family? Or was J: Yeah. It… just a strong trusting. The guidance just directs you.
this just private? It’s like the White Rabbit from Alice in Wonderland.
J: I could only really share it with my mother. The other siblings K: OK.
were not open to it at all.
J: That’s what it feels like. So you just know what to do, and that
K: And what about school? Friends? School mates? you’ll be fine, you know, and you can make it happen. I can use
all of this stuff that I’ve been taught, to reverse a lot of the old
J: No others, nobody I had at that time. So that’s why I went on condition-programming that is put on us when we’re younger.
the computer, trying to find people who… Somebody must have Right?
had similar experiences! Someone must know about this. I can’t
be the only one! Not just my family! I mean, these videos, you And it’s like… It’s NLP [ed. note: Neuro-linguistic
know… David Icke, Alex Collier. They, you know, talk to other Programming] in a sense, programming your old beliefs and
people. They find them. So perhaps I can do the same. your… if they’re yours, or where they came from, and using
them to step into your power more and more, and seeing what
And how many people is this happening to who feel alone, you you can do.
know? Who can’t share this because they feel, you know, crazy?
Or they won’t be understood? And that’s really sad and not fair. If these beings say that we’re infinite, you know, and that we’re
You know, we have the right to share and express what is within these beautiful balls of light, then I want to experience this. I
us. want to feel this. And you can’t just read about it. You have to
embody it, is what I’ve come to realize. And not praying or
So that really drove me. And I spent many nights trying to find wishing or hoping for peace and love anymore -- I’ve decided to
others, to no avail. Until one night I collapsed in front of the become it.
computer. And when I woke up, there… It was in the middle of
the night too. There was this, on the computer screen. It’s just, You know, it comes to a point in life where you decide: Do you
like: “Meet other Star-Seeds and Light-Workers”. I was like: want to go home, or become home? And then: Will that bring
Ohhhh… [big smile] I hit the mother lode! home to everybody within? That’s what “The Shift” feels like to
me.
And I contacted them all. And we immediately had a strong
connection, like we’ve known each other all our lives. And I just K: What I was wondering now, if you could talk a little bit about
knew so much about them. And I didn’t really know how, but it the messages that you were getting? And the kind of beings that
just was so strong. were coming to you, if you could describe them? Maybe specific
ones that have particular meaning for you.
And it became very exciting, and I decided I wanted to go and
see them. And so I just started to. J: Well, it’s never been quite specific. Like I said, they’ve
always… Just when I thought I could pinpoint it: OK. It’s a
It kind of freaked my mother out, because the first one I wanted Pleidi… No, it would be something different suddenly. So it was
to meet was, of all things, a guy. You know, a male around my never quite about attaching: OK. This is Jesus. This is Buddha.
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So, then I’m like: Now I’m going to play with the other races.
It was never about that. It was about the fusion and merging all of What about the reptiles? Why are people seeing reptiles?
them together and that being God in itself. Right? Playing all
these roles and speaking to us in whatever comfort-belief that we And for me, everything at first exists within. What happens inside
had. So that was always my approach and perspective on it, even of us gets mirror-reflected outside. There is a war going inside of
when understanding what these aliens were – pieces of ourself as our mind, hence a war going on outside. Even our body mirrors
well. this in that. What is cancer, really, but one cell not recognizing
another cell that’s on the same team? And so they fight.
And so, what I started to do was not only test the stuff out on my
life… and I don’t mind sharing those experiences ’cause they’re Well, that’s exactly what… You know, the Americans and the
quite wild and really fun, especially when people start trying it Iraqis and… It’s been played out over and over. And that’s why
out for themselves, and then calling me up later, going: Oh my the Buddhists were always saying, you know, peace of mind,
goodness. meditation, clarity, because…
But, for example, what I found with the extraterrestrials is, if time Oh my goodness! I’m gonna not go on tangents! I’ve got to
doesn’t exist -- past present or future are all existing at the same watch out for that.
time simultaneously -- and this is an illusion, in a sense time is
just a bunch of still-frames. [makes a square with her hands] And K: OK. Well, don’t worry. It has a through-line. But what I
this camera, you know, it’s not really moving. It’s just a bunch of wanna know is, when you’re talking in this way, are you talking
still-frames. about information that has come to you…
K: Mm hm. J: Yes.
J: And it’s a trick of the eye. Such is the case going on within K: …or the information you’ve read on the internet?
our mind as well, making us perceive.
J: No.
Then, if we’ve been taught to believe about time – linear, the way
we do now -- then that means there’s aspects of ourself that is K: Are you putting these two together?
fragmented, so future versions of ourself, depending on the
probability of our thinking. J: [shaking her head negative] No. I couldn’t really read or study
this information that much. More that just honestly came to me.
So, for example, the Grays -- not saying all Grays are like this -- If I did try to read, I would get other stuff coming to me. It was
but when I learned that they actually aren’t gray at all, that, on a almost like, whoever inspired the person in writing the literature,
crash, they dissected them and found that their gray skin was they were speaking through me.
actually our color. And those big goggles, those big eyes – That’s
what they were: they were goggles. They were a future version of You know, in acting there’s the sub-text, reading in-between the
ourself that, you know… They feel. lines? A whole other message behind it. And that’s kinda what I
was always picking up.
When people feel them, they feel very cold and kind of
calculated. And it’s almost like that version of ourself, of the I could never read or watch movies the same way as everybody
collective thinking about, you know, the desensitization of war, else. I never got what everybody else got. I always got something
and all this cloning and genetic engineering. And the chemicals completely different. I never saw things like everyone else, so…
in the air made us a little bit disconnected from who we really
were. I mean, that’s like even with reptiles. I don’t see them like
everybody else does. I see them as a manifestation within our
Because, you know, some people say that they, you know, they mind because of the reptilian brain. That’s where the ego is, and
don’t really feel, they don’t have emotions in that sense. And where 90% of the negative self-talk comes from, and the
that’s an aspect of ourself. And I would wonder why those ones repetition, and that controlling factor in our mind.
would…
I don’t even see the ego as something bad. I see it as something
If you ask any little kid to draw a picture of an alien, it’d always that is desperate for our attention and feels like it has a duty to
be the Grays with the big eyes. And what I got from them was keep us safe. And it’s doing a good job, but to the point where
that they came back to kind of prevent us from going down that now it’s making reasons why we need it. And now we need
path. protection from the protection, which is mirror-reflected in our
society, with our system, you know. It was there for protection.
And it sounds very bizarre. How can, you know, something from
the future come back to us if time travel doesn’t even exist? K: OK.
But if an old man has smoked his entire life and he has a hole in J: Now we need protection from that. Even the Pleiadians…
his throat because of it, a lot of the times they get inspired to go They’re another mirror reflection of ourself in the future. If we
to an elementary school to talk to the kids and say: Please don’t step into our potential, our infinite potential, then we’ll have that
smoke or you’ll end up like me. And that’s kind of what I saw reality probability manifested for us.
with the Grays.
So there’s all these [gesturing] laid out for us. And it’s really up
to each one of us, by the inner work that we do. And we’re
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responsible, because we are our own self-fulfilling prophecy.

That’s what humanity is, and they’ve been played. Not to say, you know: You need to believe what I believe ’cause
I’m right and everybody else is wrong. But to honor where each
K: OK. And what is your view if… In other words when the one is coming from, and to trust themself, that they have those
entities… ah … I guess I wanna say, when the entities come to answers within, that we don’t need to necessarily look and
you… depend on other people for the answers.
J: Uh huh. Because that’s kind of what got us into this mess in the first
place. Right? We’re giving our power away to people or beings
K: …and they give you information, do you just accept it? that don’t necessarily have our best intention in mind.
J: No. We have a conversation, almost like. I challenge them. I But even that, we should ask: Why don’t they? Where does that
always like to challenge them and play with them, because that come from? What part of ourself is so self-destructive that allows
seems to be what really stimulates them coming about -- in touch us to do this to ourselves?
with your inner child, you know, and that creativity.
K: OK. If you were going to talk about the future… And, you
And wanting to understand why they’re bringing this about. You know, a lot of people are talking about 2012, as you know, and
know: Why are you sharing this? What is your intent behind it? what may be going on in the future. Have you been given any
And I’ve been able to filter, right away, ones that are trying to visions or dreams of the future, or any information about it from
sway, by how they make you feel about yourself and the world the beings that are contacting you?
around you: Do you feel afraid, and that you need to, you know,
protect yourself? Or do you feel more liberated and more J: Definitely. A lot. And I always like to dispense with this “End
compassionate and loving? of the World” kind of thing. But I can understand why people
see, or are perceiving it, as the end of the world, because it’s the
K: OK. end of an old way of living, being, and thinking, that has been
around for quite some time. So, to a lot of people who don’t have
J: And that’s how you can decipher through any message, imagination, who can’t see beyond that, then to them it’s the end.
whatever thing you’re watching.
But in actuality it is something far beyond what we’ve ever
K: OK. And are you finding that certain beings return to you dreamed. In a sense, the best way to understand it is, you know,
more than once? Would you recognize them? Or are you talking “Truth is stranger than fiction”.
about a general, you know, sort of “heading,” you know, called
“spirit” or “guides”, or whatever you want to call it. And we are going to experience that first-hand with these
“paranormal” events which aren’t even para-normal at all. It’s
J: I prefer to use that, even though, yeah, they are just facets of just a bleed-through of who we actually are, coming out in all
myself, or you, everybody. kinds of different ways. It’s going to be more and more frequent.
And people are gonna start just recognizing each other.
K: Right. But given that they are… If you want to look at it that
way, in terms of… You know, we can always look at the world in And war cannot continue because we… If I harm you, right away
that terminology, but they still have individuality, to some I’m going to feel that pain. So, say I punched you in the
degree. shoulder? I’m gonna feel it right away in my shoulder. And it’s
going to freak people out at first ’cause we’ve never really
J: But I’ve never really focused on that. That never really been… Like nobody’s really taught this to us in school, you
interested me so much, because, to me, that seemed to be a bit of know. It’s kind of hush-hush. It’s taboo in the world, but it’s
a distraction. I mean, if we’re thinking about… We argue a lot starting to come back.
about Jesus, whether he’s real or not. And it really doesn’t matter.
It was the message. That’s the bigger picture. So that’s always Humanity’s, you know, in their state of amnesia for such a long
what I paid attention to. time, and now just awakening to what we’ve always known. And
it’s very quantum. It’s very multidimensional. It’s memories, not
And I’m like: Well, even Luke Skywalker… he’s not real, but boy just of past lives, but future lives, multi-dimensional lives, inter-
does he inspire and reach a lot of people. So that was always the dimensional lives, lives in between lives. We’ll be able to grasp
way I would get past all these things, just to get right to the focal that and understand that.
point, for me.
Right now what’s happening is, it’s just stepping-stones that’s
K: OK. So what did they tell you your mission was? Do you leading us there. And you can’t get attached or box yourself into
know? one belief. There are no limits, just beliefs. So you always got to
expand on that.
J: Mmm. It’s… When you… It doesn’t really exist. When you
can’t, you know, go out and find a place that says: This is just for K: OK. So when you say past lives, future lives…
Jessica, then it’s a little bit challenging.
J: Mm hm. [nodding agreement]
So it was something that they said that I can create. I can create,
with the pieces of what I’m acquiring, how I see my perspective, K: …etcetera, have you been given a vision of your own past
to share that with the world. And that is… but don’t just talk lives, future lives? Are you saying that this is something that you
about it, like be it, and inspire people to find their own truth. think is going to be revealed to you eventually?
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J: I don’t have very many past lives per se because I don’t… I J: Be aware of what you’re projecting out into the world.
know I’ve been human on this planet. Mainly I’ve been a guide Constantly be aware of your thoughts. And be gentle, and kinder
working on the etheric. So I’m here to help people understand to yourself. It’s really just that.
their guides and the mechanics of how they work, and all the
ways they’re trying to get through to us and relay their message. The reason I am here right now, sharing, is because you hear
And so, that’s… about the younger generation that, you know, these Crystals, and
the Indigos, but where are they? Well, we’re here now. And your
My past lives: I’ve had one in Atlantis and one in France. So, not children, they know all about this. And I’m also inspiring and
very many. It is very bizarre to be in a human body and just having… I’m almost like a pioneer that’s allowing the other
getting used to the physical, and the matter kind of thing. But it’s children to come forth and speak and share.
a huge honor to be in the physical form on Earth at this time.
But it’s not just “children”-children. It’s also each person’s inner
And I’ve been taken… and I’ve seen this line-up of souls that just child. And that, when we balance and merge our divine
can’t wait to be here on Earth at this time. And that’s actually masculine and our divine feminine -- since masculine has been
why the planet is over-populated. It’s because of the excitement the energy that’s ruling the planet for quite some time, and now
from all the souls. feminine energy is starting to take back its power -- but no one
has been, you know, put down more than the inner child. And it’s
And this planet is like a Harvard University for Creators-in- time for them to step to the plate.
Training. And it’s one of the greatest honors to be in physical
form during this time, because it’s the merge of spirit and matter It even mentions this in the Bible: Only one that possesses the
working together, and going, and having these kinds of heart of a child may enter the Kingdom. And: A child will lead
experiences. the way. And what I gather from this is…
Because it’s very different… I mean, I can speak about this other A child is like our sunshine. That’s what we call our children:
side. I can explain to you how they interpret us. It’s almost like You are my sunshine. And when we merge that masculine and
we are a “reality show” to them. And what we do affects them, as feminine within us, there is peace. Then the union happens -- the
well. It’s like a huge ripple effect. It’s all a microcosm of a inner child is birthed. And that brings such a bright light within
macrocosm, as we step into that. us that…
K: OK. So can you talk about specific events in the future? Or is When I see the stars, it’s a mirror of, you know, we are light in
it completely unwritten, in your view? dark places as well. And when these lights all recognize each
other, we all come together in one, then it looks a lot like the big
J: It’s not necessarily specific events, because it’s… again, it’s bright light. Like the sun. Or God’s son, if you will. The return of
on the collective term. But I just… whenever I think about it or God’s son.
tap into it, I just see a very different world from here.
And the other thing I really wanted to share with you is our
I see people more connecting with nature, understanding the perspective on the Illuminati or any kind of forces that are
wisdom that’s there that, you know, that… It’s never lied to you causing a lot of discord -- to understand that humanity is
– Nature -- and it never will. Because it has no game to take conditioned to believe they’re a worthless piece of coal under
power over. It has no desire to do anything like that. It just gives extreme heat and pressure. And the heat and pressure can be
abundantly. perceived as the Illuminati, or anything that causes discord.
And we will discover ourselves through that. And it’s just going What happens to a piece of coal under extreme heat and
to be nothing but beauty, to be honest. pressure? It becomes a diamond. So they’re doing us a service, in
helping us step in and take back our power. There’s a major
There’s no doom or gloom or fear or anything like that. And call motivation force that is alchemy, even if humanity’s a sea of
yourself on that, and ask yourself: Why? Why are you getting potential and in order to grow into its loveliness it needs a lot of
that? Where is that coming from? Is that you? Or is that an fertilizer dumped on it -- shit.
outside influence?
I wanted to also say about the Illuminati, that I really see them as
K: OK. And if there was something you could tell people that, a bully in high school, that they’re very insecure and very afraid,
you know… Because we’ve spent almost an hour with you here, more so of us than we are of them. And, to me, I just see them as
and we’re gonna kind of wrap this up. But if there’s something the Wizard of Oz, that they’re smoke and mirrors, “great and
you could tell people that you feel maybe hasn’t been said so far, powerful.” But when you get to the root and the heart of the
what would that be? matter, it’s a frail old man behind the curtain.
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Project Camelot:
Dr Brian O'Leary - January 2009 Ecuador Conference
Introduction Transcript
Vilcabamba, Ecuador - January, 2009
And this is truly remarkable because when we first put this

conference together, which was less than a month ago, I think,
from this remote outpost, all of a sudden all of you decided to
come here.
And I’m blown away. I would have been surprised that in a

program like this at such a remote location, that maybe we’d have
20 people, and we’d have an intimate seminar and gathering and
conversational affair. But no! Look what happened! And so I say
welcome. [laughter, applause]
How many of you have traveled from afar, in other words, let’s
say, from another continent? That’s most of you. Wow. Well,
congratulations once again, and welcome once again.
Dr. Brian O’Leary Bienvenidos.
Dr Brian O'Leary suffered the ridicule of his schoolfriends when
- several years before Sputnik - he announced his intention to go I thought I’d start out with a very short kind of meditation
to the moon. Yet by the age of 27 he was a member of NASA's because obviously we are in a time of great crisis and
astronaut program, slated to be one of the first to visit Mars. opportunity, and today is all about that. It’s all about further
Several years later, he resigned (for various reasons) and took up defining the crisis behind the scenes, mostly from a gentleman
a career in academia where he rubbed shoulders with - among whom I’ve known for a long time and who has extraordinary
many others - Carl Sagan at Cornell and the pioneering psi information, both logically in the left brain 3D world, and also
investigator Robert Jahn at the physics department at Princeton. from off-planet sources.
A near-death experience in a auto accident encouraged his And that’s George Green. He’s sitting right over there. George is
exploration of the paranormal, and soon after he applied his going to be the main speaker today and I’m sure many of you
considerable abilities to the investigation of Free ('overunity') who know him already, know of his work, are really looking
Energy and psi phenomena. He authored several books and forward to it.
became a well-known Free Energy activist.
But I thought I’d start with a short mediation. And the meditation
His list of personal friends reads like a Who's Who of notable is really simply a very easy one. Just close your eyes and just take
paradigm-challenging researchers and out-of-the-box thinking a deep breath. Then exhale any negativity and the chattering
scientists. In our interview we asked him to summarize his mind and all of that kind of interference.
exceptional life, and present his vision for the future.
And breathe in again and this time imagine this tremendous
amount of light that’s present in our beautiful valley. It’s very
An optimistic, gentle man, Brian O'Leary is gifted to possess accessible here. And then exhale again. And then inhale again
intellect, vision and graciousness in equal measure. We were and imagine this light just filling your body and protecting you
delighted to spend time with him at his Vilcabamba home and are and allowing you to be an agent of change.
very much looking forward to continuing our friendship with him
in 2009 and beyond. And with each successive breath, let that light accumulate around
you, your neighbors, the house, the village, all of Ecuador, and
Conference Introduction the entire world, and especially towards those that are suffering.
And just give thanks for this opportunity to come together. And
Brian O’Leary: [background laughter] ... I knew the media would then slowly come back into the room. Open our eyes, and...
take over. [laughter] No, actually that’s Kerry. She’s one of the
speakers, too, so she gets a pass on this one. I wanted to do this. I know George is going to do one, too,
because part of the context of the crisis we’re in is that there’s
Kerry Cassidy: That’s a great start. I want to hear it again. just so many extraordinary things going on. We’re kind of in fast-
forward toward an unknown destiny.
Brian O’Leary: Welcome to Montesuenos, Vilcabamba, Ecuador,
South America, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy. But it’s quite extraordinary, isn’t it? Because the results of this...
at least in our linear minds, the results could either be total
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catastrophe, nuclear war, whatever; escalation of what’s going on So anyway, this is Montesuenos. It’s a retreat center. We hope
in the Middle East; Earth changes. you can come back. I would love to meet all of you personally
and spend some time with you. And we do have residency
You know what the crisis is. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t programs here, and all sorts of things. So that’s fine. And I also
know a lot about what the crisis we’re in is. And that it’s also far want to introduce Meredith, my artist-wife. [applause]
more serious than you would be lead to believe by the media or
by our political leaders. Meredith: You should introduce this painting.
And so, we... Meredith and I moved here to Ecuador rather Brian: Oh, I will. I’ll get around to that. There’s a painting
suddenly. And I can give you all the reasons, but the main behind me that she did. It’s called The Last Supper of Gaia. But
reasons were that we saw unrest coming up in the US. And we we’ll get into that a little bit later. And indeed it is a last supper /
were like the second visible gringo to move here. resurrection, whether you want to take Christian, Jewish, or
indigenous metaphor. It’s all... We are headed somewhere. We’re
By visible I mean not wanting to go, let’s say, into the woodwork on this journey, and it’s quickening.
and just stay there. Because we’re still actively... many of us now
in this room are very much actively involved in interacting with What I wanted to talk about today, just very briefly -- because I
the culture. But we were basically the second. And that was four want George to take most of the day because his information and
and half years ago. sharing is just wonderful, and he’s come from afar. And the piece
that I’ve been working on is free energy.
And we rented a one-room tiny, modest, cottage which was
ostensibly going to be a ma-and-pa retirement home. And then And I can tell you categorically that in the 1990s... well maybe
about a year later, when our visions exceeded our wildest I’ll go back a little further. Here I was, a typical left-brain
thoughts because we wanted to build a small house. Here, at this academic, reductionistic / materialistic 3-dimensional physicist, a
site, it was just a foundation then. And the bathroom over there, physics professor at Princeton University. And I took a Lifespring
that used to be an outhouse. The kitchen used to be the original Training one weekend, and I had a remote viewing experience.
farm house here. And then I had a near death experience in an auto accident. Then
I had some healing experiences. And then I left Princeton.
And so, Meredith and I were off on a trip -- and this was about [laughter]
maybe a half a year into our construction -- and the builder made
a mistake. He built this huge roof here. And we didn’t ask for My colleagues did not believe... In fact, you know, here I was,
that. We just wanted a small house. swilling thimblefuls of sherry at the Joseph Henry Luncheons
every other Tuesday. And the other professors there, of which
But we looked at each other in amazement and we said to each there were seven Nobel Laureates, all males, would swill the
other: Wow. This is bigger than we are! And that’s been the story sherry and talk about how ridiculous claims to the paranormal
of Montesuenos ever sense. We finished, not really finished, but are.
finished this phase of the construction.
And having just had paranormal experiences, I said: Gee! This
A few months ago we had what was called The Phoenix isn’t my tribe, even though I had some 40 years in it.
Gathering. This bunch of visionaries came in from all over the
world. Now you’ve come in from all over the world -- and Well, now we fast-forward to 30 years later and I’m really glad I
besides the carbon debit of using fossil fuels in jets, I say it’s went on a metaphysical journey which sent me in many
really great -- but that, of course, in the future may not be the directions.
situation, so in a way that makes this all the more poignant to be
able to personally get together like this before something else But I was always thinking of solutions: What is it that we can do
might happen. for the culture that can really make a difference? And what is the
truth of the matter, of why it’s suppressed as well as why it
I don’t want to come from fear, however, and that’s... One reason exists?
why I said the little meditation was that there was the presence of
some fear prior to this conference. Now, those of you that are So I go back and forth between truth-telling consciousness and
astrologers would say: Oh, that’s just because Mercury’s in the consciousness of actually going into the solutions and
retrograde and the full Moon’s in Cancer. Or whatever. thinking positively.
But, you know, it really has been an extraordinary week that way. And, in a way, I think that’s our job here, is to be able to be
We almost felt like canceling the conference, the element of fear respectful and understanding of where each of us is at personally
was so high. And then it just evaporated. And that seems to be in our growth, and understanding of what’s happening and what
true of this place. It’s maybe a little bit like Mount Shasta. It’s... could be.
the weather moves in, but it moves out just as fast as it moves in.
So, I got into the free energy business, if you would call it that.
So I mean I’m looking at all of you and I don’t see any ... Any of It’s not really a business because, as George knows, I can’t really
you from the CIA here? [laughter] It’s OK. You’re welcome. sell my books. People aren’t reading books anymore. Well, I sell
[laughter] You know, I often urge some of the people that are a few here and there. So that’s not why... I’m not in any kind of
involved in cover-ups and all of that to join us, and, you know, commercial business this way.
take part in this enlightenment, or whatever you want to call it.
It’s more like... Well, my exploration of various modalities in so-
called “new science” has now been a journey that has taken me
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three decades and has sent me in many unexpected directions. Brian: Well, anyway, that’s my alter-ego. And whenever I get
One of the least-expected directions was when I traveled the stuck on some sort of issue like money or career or trying to
world and visited many researchers and inventors of so-called impress people, or whatever it is, I get out The Pig and act it out.
free energy devices.
And his mate, by the way, is the Ivory Pig. She’s up there in the
And at that point I was skeptical. Even though I was openly puppet window. She’s a Valley Girl. And you can see how they’d
embracing the UFO / ET phenomenon, a lot of paranormal things get along very well because he’d go in plutocratically and make
and healing, and blah-blah-blah, I hadn’t tackled the energy as much money as possible, and she would get her swimming
piece. pool and this and that.
But also, because I had been a professor at various universities of But now I understand that here in Ecuador – and there’s a lot of
science policy assessment, and advised presidential candidates, things happening in this country and I hope your visit will be a
and Congress, and so forth, on energy policy, I thought I’d be little longer. And this is a bit of an advertisement, but we may
an... And since my PhD was in atmospheric science, I was kind have a room available here for the next three days. One suddenly
of a natural to begin to look at the question of climate change, freed up.
atmospheric pollution, water pollution, and so forth.
But I hope some of you stay a little longer and kind of check out
And believe me, it is dire. It’s just as dire as the Doomsdayers this place. It’s a beautiful country. Politically I think it’s as
say about what’s coming down on the planet – just sheerly favorable as any that I know of on the planet right now, in terms
physically, you know. Just looking at the physical observations of intention. It’s not perfect.
without any esoteric at all, it’s very clear that human interference
with the planet it creating an accelerating instability that will Right now the government is kind of trying to walk this line
trigger other phenomena. between giving in to the multi-national oligarchal empire
interests, and wanting to become as independent as possible.
And it’s just an outrage to me. I mean, I invested my heart and
soul. After having studied deep ecology and done more spiritual And of course that feeds right into the re-localization movement,
things, I just began to realize that: Gee, we’re losing our Earth! which I know many of us are really getting more and more
And we’re doing it fast! And it’s our species that’s doing it! interested in -- growing our own food, everything local, barter
systems and local currency, etcetera, etcetera, and just ride out
And many of us come from the most powerful nation in the world this period, no matter what happens globally.
and our leaders... Bush was one extreme, of course. I’m wanting
to say good riddance. Are you here, Mr. Bush? No. I didn’t think And I think this is one of the better spots to do that. Meredith and
so. I think that. Really, we just love living here. And we also love the
people here. Our only concern is over-development. The gringos
are coming! The gringos are coming!
We’ve had a lot of people come to town and visit us and ask us
questions. I know we have Susan and Walter here, who’ve been
here for almost as long as we have. I’m sure, Susan, you’ve had
thousands of questions asked of you: Oh, what’s it like here? Oh,
can we do this?
And, actually, Susan has some property, too. So, you know, there
are places you can settle that are very beautiful here, but we’re
hoping there won’t be too, too many people. As they say down
here, the Podocarpus Freeway, the Loja Freeway. [laughter]
And you know, the Lapis Pig wants to build a statue of himself
up on that flat top mountain and then have oil wells and
Well, no, no. I actually... I have to introduce a prop here. I have condominiums and golf courses and tramways. Anyway, that
an alter-ego. The alter-ego’s called the Lapis Pig. He’s a Jim could happen here. It’s like this could become another San
Henson’s Creature Shop Muppet. And he’s therapy for me. Fernando Valley. We hope not. The Ivory Pig might like that, but
I think that many of you would not. I think we’re all kind of
He’s basically that part of me that I want to leave behind. He is naturalists at heart.
the physics professor at Princeton, but is also out for his career
and for money. And his hero is Dick Cheney. [laughter] And his So I want to get back to this energy piece just a little bit and it’s
fixation is money. So this is the Lapis Pig. in part because George just brought back with him – and it’s the
first time I gaze my eyes on it -- is my new book, The Energy
Lapis Pig: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. [pig snort Solution Revolution. It’s available here. But it’s kind of my
noises] Have you paid your registration fee? [snort, snort] Only if estimate of what’s going on around this question of breakthrough
you have tendered monies are you to be admitted here and you clean energy.
shall do this or else you will perish ... [snorting pig noises] ...
[laughter, applause] Because what I discovered during the 1990s when I traveled the
world and visited many of the inventors, and I wrote some books
about my travels and interviews with these people and
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observations of their experiments, is that the concepts are very from the vacuum of space, that we could solve the energy
real. problem. It’s a pretty obvious deduction.
There is abundant energy that comes from the vacuum of space So it occurred to me that: Gee, maybe I should report on this.
and it can be tapped under certain conditions. For example, you Maybe I should do a little research on this. Maybe I should
can have special magnets that resonate with this hypothesized network with people. So, you know, we held... Some of us with
zero point. And the physics of all of this is understood, actually, scientific backgrounds held various conferences, brought in some
from the theoretical perspective. of the inventors.
Actually, this potential energy field is forced into existence by At one point a software billionaire was going to fund the whole
quantum theory and by Eastern thought. The Vedas knew this. It effort. That was back in the early 1990s. And then he suddenly
goes way back, the knowledge that the universe has a tremendous backed out. I’ll tell you why he backed out. For this we need the
amount of potential energy. Lapis Pig.
And we know it also from consciousness, that we can tap into Lapis Pig: If you would like to know my opinion? [snort!] I am
that energy force. It’s sometimes called etheric energy. It’s not dipping into the River of Optimized Profits, [snort!] and will
sometimes called orgone energy. It’s sometimes called.... There therefore wait until people blunder with their devices until we get
are a thousand names for it, but it’s all pretty much the same the one that’s most efficacious financially. [snort!]
thing. And it’s more akin to Eastern thought and indigenous
thought than any kind of Lapis Pig western scientist. Brian: And that’s exactly how he reacted. He didn’t want to dip
into the River of Optimized Profits.
In fact, as soon as I started to do experiments in consciousness...
And some of the work was done with my colleague at Princeton, And so, one thing after another; one time after another, these
Robert John, who is the Dean of the School of Engineering. wonderful devices... And some of them are magnetic motors.
Some of them are little solid-state devices. Some of them are cold
He did some of the pioneering work with random-event fusion devices. Some of them are on the concept of sono-
generators, where a human being would go into the laboratory luminescence.
and focus their intention on a particular result, like flipping coins,
except this is an electronic device. And it actually became one of There are many, many different technologies. There’s ways of
those situations where there were significant results over time. splitting water, where you get more energy out of it than quantum
It’s like flipping a coin and you get... You say you want more theory would predict -- and that’s traditional quantum theory, not
heads than tails, and indeed you get heads. the quantum theory that you really need to get into, which
involves consciousness.
Those kinds of things are the result of human intention. In other
words, the mind or the heart, or whatever you want to call it, the So you kind of get the picture is that science is struggling, just
human being, can influence the results in the material world. like many of us, struggling into the 21st century. And it just
happened that the societal choice that was made by a lot of
Well, those experiments were just totally messed up by the people was... Cutting-edge technology might be the internet.
physics department, the engineering... Here was the Dean of the That’s like magic.
School of Engineering, the Energy-Engineering Department. The
Dean of Faculty tried to dismiss him even though he had tenure. But this could happen with energy, too. But the problem is that
it’s been suppressed, it has been turned. Because it’s a huge
And this happens to many people. It happened with John Mack, a threat to the status quo to supplant an, about 5-trillion-dollar
leading abduction researcher at Harvard. And it’s happened to industry, mostly vested in fossil fuels -- to just supplant that with
many other people. Professors are stripped of their credentials. something that’s cheap, clean, safe, decentralized.
The Inquisition is alive and well in America and elsewhere in the
world. So these things do happen. And so, what do you do about this? Well, my project in writing
this book – it’s been a six-year project just came to a culmination
But Bob John’s work is, nevertheless, seminal work. It’s now – and I came up with many, many reasons.
being followed up at a more popular, more pervasive level by
other researchers that show beyond any reasonable doubt that First of all, first and foremost I would say, the scientists are
human consciousness... suppressing the work, because people that call themselves
scientists are really technicians of the current western paradigm.
[Aside]: You know, there’s a little bit of static. I don’t know what And if you break those ranks, you’re out.
that’s all about. But I guess it’s all right.
I mean, once I left Princeton, that was it. My career was kind of
Voice: It’s soul energy. shot. What I had to do was get very energetic and go to a Unity or
Christian Science church every Sunday and hold forth, and that
Brian: It’s just the energy. Yes. kind of helped my kids get through college in the end. So, you
know, I was able to piece together a quasi-career over the last 30
So, when I started to travel the world and visit all of these years and just get by, pretty much.
researchers, it dawned on me that... You know, it’s kind of a
simple deduction, but it’s possible that if we had a billion little And then, there are just so many of these free energy devices --
power-packs that could generate electricity from the ether, or that’s the point. Getting back to that thought is any one of which
could be a big breakthrough but it’s been suppressed. And the
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scientists are among the first to suppress it. There are so many I think that would be one of the things the indigenous peoples
suppression stories, but why go through them? You know. could help facilitate, this coming together in those kinds of
They’re there. They’re documented. experiments, because there’s absolutely no danger in an
experiment like that.
You know what I mean. Bertram Russell said: The resistance to a
new idea increases as the square of its importance. [laughter] And some experiments actually show that if the intention is
positive, the combined intention, it’s far more powerful than
And when you’re talking about really important concepts, there combined negative human intention.
are diversionary tactics that happen in the culture. And the
scientists are usually the first line of defense against importance, And so, I think that this is really the... how shall I say it... the
and in favor of the status quo. Holy Grail, to use a Camelot phrase, a Holy Grail of our time. It’s
the basis of the science of the 21st century that’s longing to be
And then you radiate outwards. There’s the media. Of course, the born. It isn’t born yet.
media has been terribly irresponsible. I used to have access to
media all the time when I was a “mainstream scientist.” You I think it was Max Planck that said: Science progresses with each
know, I’d be on the CBS Evening News and the Today Show, and funeral. And sometimes we have to wait for the old order to die
blah-blah-blah. out. Well, we may not have that kind of time right now, so we
need to come up with ways of coming together and combining
But as soon as I began to even embrace the possibility that maybe our positive intention. That’s the ultimate science, I think.
UFOs are a real phenomenon, or that energy sources could exist
that transcend our current paradigm... as soon as I stepped into Free energy in and of itself, I think is also a possibility. It’s just
that territory, I was persona non gratis. that we don’t want Dick Cheney running that one, too. It then
becomes more of a human problem, a social problem, a political
And that’s true of many, many scientists. And the situation can problem, economic problem, than it is a technical one. The
even get worse. If you’re really effective at what you’re doing, technologies are there. But whenever anybody tries to develop it,
the situation can even get worse. it’s so thwarted in one way or another.
It lead me to write... One of the chapters in my new book is And so you have to ask the question: Well, can we create a world
called Confessions of a Scientific Heretic: A Legend or a Story in which it’s possible to facilitate this development, this kind of
about the Carrot and the Stick. And carrots are dangled in front development? And I always hold out the hope that maybe we can.
of people that are reasonably... especially scientists that are We can discuss this later, of course.
reasonably effective in their breakthrough ideas to save the
planet... and the carrot is to divert them away from that. That’s Or, if we can’t -- and George will talk about this quite a bit, later.
the general story. Let’s say we can’t. Well then, localization makes a big
difference, and we need to work on our own spiritual growth, as
And then the stick is: Well, if you don’t do that... Whack! You George’s books so aptly tell, especially the most recent one, The
know, it could a threat. It could be assassination. It could be any Ground Crew, that we need to come together in local
number of things. communities, become independent, become centers of light, and
maybe even...
You know, I’ve been through the mill myself. I can say it from
direct and personal experience. And many others have, too. I don’t know if you ever read a book by Morris Berman called
Twilight of the American Culture, but he’s a mainstream
And so, tomorrow’s theme is going to be more along the lines of sociologist and he basically says: Well, yeah, we’re in for a Dark
truth-telling and what’s really happening out there that’s been Age, folks. Let’s just prepare for it. And he uses the metaphor of
suppressed and now needs to be more into the public light -- and the monastery or the monastic kind of little centers of light in an
that is our ability to step outside the box of normal inquiry. So otherwise dark age.
there are a number of different free energy technologies.
And that might be what comes down. I don’t know. Or maybe... I
I talked about consciousness. I think it’s really important for us to don’t know if we can get help from off-planet. Maybe. Maybe
know that... Even though we’re being divided and ruled right not. Depends on the degree of help. But these are all questions
now, still I think the answer in terms of consciousness -- if there that George can address much better than I can.
is an answer at all, if we can solve this human condition and
global crisis dilemma -- then the one technology or tool that I The point being, though, that we can do it in principle, but we
think is very powerful potentially is Combined Positive Human need to be less divided and ruled. And we also need to get off of
Intention. the sheeple principle.
Now, there’ve been some popular books written about this, like And the credibility of free energy... You know, I was just giving
McTaggart, The Intention Experiment. I write it up in some of my you some examples of the suppression. And I’ve come to the
earlier books about how scientific experiments show without any conclusion, and my colleague Wade Frazier has come to the same
doubt that we, through groups of people coming together, aligned conclusion, which is that to understand free energy and its
in intention, can really affect the material world. They can heal potential, you almost have to have a certain degree of sentience.
people. They can purify water. And they can do it even on a [laughter]
global scale. I mean, people are beginning to do experiments like
that. It defies logic that people that are otherwise very intelligent, what
Wade would call the structuralists, people like Noam Chomsky,
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Naomi Klein and so forth, that a lot of these progressives that are But the point here being that every once in a while a
great critics of the way things are in our culture, they don’t want transcendental goal is publicly acknowledged and it was with that
to embrace more transcendental questions like: Well, maybe it’s spirit that I felt, for so many years, a very positive experiment. I
possible there exist technologies that could be researched that was an Eagle Scout. I grew up in the ’40s and ’50s, and, you
would provide clean, cheap, safe, abundant, decentralized free know, when World War II was over, we were the good guys. It
energy as a solution. was a happy time, pretty much. And a visionary time.
But it doesn’t even enter the minds of people. And I know this. And when Kennedy set that goal, I was just ready to get right in
Because I used to have media access about all this stuff. there and be a part of it. So in 1967 I was appointed as the first
astronaut to go to Mars, when it was still in NASA’s program
About two months ago the BBC gave me a call and they said: plan. However, one year later, because of Vietnam, it was
We’re doing a Special on new energy. cancelled. Then I became a Vietnam protestor.
And I said: Great. And so, in those days things were very positive. Now the whole
atmosphere is repressive. Suppressive. And we just have to
And they said: We’d like to interview you about free energy. acknowledge that, but realize that...
And I said: Great. Well, I always like to hold out hope that we can have leaders who
see the light and that can set a transcendental goal. Even if it’s
But this is the first time I’ve ever been invited to a media something as simple...
appearance and then uninvited. [laughter] Obviously the producer
ran it up the flag to the executive producer who said: Not You know, I did a little work with Dennis Kucinich on this
allowed. question: How do you, as a politician, phrase this so that it’s
palatable? Because it isn’t palatable to The Powers That Be to
In other words, the Lapis Pigs are in charge. No question about it. develop free energy. Believe Me! You know, it takes away from
You don’t even have to be paranoid, conspiracy theory, because their power and their profits.
it actually can be cool. Even though it’s denigrated by the
mainstream culture, I’d like to think of conspiracy theorists as So how do you do this? So I was designing a few statements and
truth-seekers and not necessarily always paranoid, which is the speeches that he actually gave for a while, but then he kind of
societal definition. withdrew from that. I don’t know if anybody gave him a phone
call or what.
So. OK. Getting back to free energy. There are so many sources
of suppression, but I think the main one, in its own way, is us. We But what I drafted for him was, basically, we can’t leave any
are the biggest suppressors. It’s not the bad boys, the guys that stone unturned in our quest for clean energy. I mean, that’s a
are doing horrible things in the New World Order and stuff. politically positive statement. Then you can at least slip it into a
Yeah, they’re controlling things a lot. renewable energy program.
But to the degree that we can become awakened and that we can And one of the things that I studied for this book... because I get
take action is the degree to which we will be able to prevail. So I this happening every day. I get about ten emails a day trying to
really think that we are the biggest suppressors. vet this, and this, and this, concept or technology, whether it’s
free energy or whether it’s just the latest renewable, traditional
And when you peel the onion... It’s like a metaphysical journey, renewable energy source.
in a sense, and it’s also an intellectual journey. When you peel
the onion of free energy, where people give all the reasons in the So like one day I might get: What about the air car? What about
world: Oh yeah! Tell me when I can go down to K-Mart and get this kind of bio-fuel that’s based on algae? What about thin films
mine. Well, that doesn’t really help. for solar collection? What about this new material for windmills?
What helps is: How can I help? What’s going on here? What And, to my way of thinking, in a most general way, the news is
kinds of devices are out there? Can I build one? Can I get bad. It’s none of the above when you really come down to it, if
support for this? Do I need to be quiet about it, or should I be you’re going to support 6 billion people on this planet. Now,
publicly transparent? So all of these questions immediately come some people don’t want to support 6 billion people on the planet.
to mind, if you can even grasp the possibility of this. We have to put that into consideration. But let’s assume we want
to provide for everybody.
Now, you know, I remember back in 1961. I was just graduating
from college and John F. Kennedy got before a joint Congress, Well, windmills would cost... the capital cost to have a wind
and he said: I believe that by the end of the decade we shall land economy for the entire world and associated grid system would
a man on the Moon. We shall not flounder in the backwash. be about 30 trillion dollars. Well, that kind of money, of course,
Anyway, JFK, you know, he set a transformational goal. we can use to bail out Wall Street, but to come up with a
solution? No. And it’s very materials-intensive. And it’s land-
Now, we’re setting aside all the stuff of: Well, did we in fact go intensive. And it’s intermittent and diffuse.
to the Moon? Well, we at least went around the Moon. We know
that. But landing? Maybe, maybe not. I’ll have to watch a CD on And solar energy is even more expensive. And I’m not trying to
that one. say that’s bad or wrong. I’m just saying: Well, hmmm. Are these
really the answers?
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But you see, what’s happening now is that there’s not only a possible. Let’s see if we can have truly clean energy. And that
dumbing-down of this kind of analysis -- kind of almost would solve many of the problems that we have now in the
deliberately-rigged dumbing-down -- but you get promotional environment.
hypes from various quarters. And right now Obama’s beginning
to embrace the dirtier of the more renewable technologies -- like What I want to do is discuss briefly Meredith’s painting that is
clean coal, or nuclear. That’s not renewable. That’s nightmares. behind me. It’s called The Last Supper of Gaia. And then I wrote
this book, Miracle in the Void, which is... The chapters of the
He’s not very far along in the curve. Of course, there could be book correspond to the disciples around the table of Gaia. It’s a
reasons for that we find out later. But the point is, he’s not far feminine version of the standard Last Supper paintings.
along on the curve.
So here on the left side, you have the Disciple of Denial. He’s
But all the “Solar-topia” people... And I don’t object to that. We hiding behind the American flag, watching television that’s
could have a future with traditional renewables. But that’s like plugged into the grid system. And it’s basically dumbing-down.
discussing dirigibles and balloons, which the Wright brothers And there’s almost no hope at that stage.
already flew.
But, you see, some of this work that we’ve done is based on the
It’s not the kind of thing that is going to be our future. Actually, work of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross that, when you lose a loved one or
consciousness will be our future. I mean, we will be able to do get a terminal diagnosis, that there are various stages of grief that
magic. However, do we have a future? And that’s a big question you need to go through, various emotions. And the first one’s
because of the turning that we’re involved in now. always denial: This can’t happen. It’s not! This isn’t for me. And
so, this is the Disciple of Denial.
And that’s, I think, one of the reasons why we’re going to be
developing the theme of Camelot in the most general way, and And then usually you go to Anger, this disciple up here. In this
then we go to Project Camelot. Because in a sense, Camelot was painting, it’s the comet colliding with Jupiter, so you get a thing
an attempt... the JFK presidency... was an attempt to come up with the Excalibur sword and Jupiter, in the comet hitting Jupiter.
with a kingdom, if you will, or whatever you want to call it, a That’s the Disciple of Anger.
political unit that is compassionate and would seek the truth.
The bumper sticker I had for many years in California before we
And right now I think we’re in a position to want to have a truth moved here said: The truth will set you free but first it will piss
and reconciliation process in the United States, certainly in Israel. you off. [laughter]
In Israel right now there’s apartheid going on, just like South
Africa. There has to be some sort of process to initiate the truth. This can’t happen. I don’t want it to happen. Who did it? I think
there are probably a lot of people right now in that zone. I’ve
And there are some truths, of course, that -- like David Ray been going through that zone. And it’s not necessarily a linear
Griffin in his writings -- there’s some truths that are discarded progression, either. It’s... you can be angry and also in denial.
and instead become sacred myths. That’s his phrase for it. So,
like 9/11, the official story is a sacred myth. The nonexistence of But you kind of get the picture, is that a lot of people are really
free energy is a sacred myth, that all we can do is wind, solar, and angry with what’s going on. And probably increasingly so. So
so forth, and look backwards without looking forward. that’s another phase of grief.
But, you see, the free energy question... Even when you think of And then bargaining: How do we fit the round pegs in square
sheer logic, the inevitable conclusion you come to -- and you holes? Maybe the US government can do it. Maybe Obama can
don’t even have to be sentient. You don’t even have to believe in do it.
it -- all you have to have is a head on your shoulders to be able to
use some logic, saying: Well, maybe this is possible, so let’s And then, when that doesn’t work -- and it usually doesn’t, you
research it. After all, the amount of investment for the research know, rationalizing these things -- then depression. Nothing else
would be equivalent to a few hours of fighting in Iraq. You would seems to work -- very, very much into depression.
think that might be worth it.
And this is what usually happens when a loved one dies. In this
But, no. It’s not even mentioned. In fact, it’s a no-no. It’s case the loved one is the Earth. I think as we resonate with the
definitely not to be considered. Earth, we feel a tremendous amount of unconscious fear, denial
of what’s going on, anger about how it’s being raped, bargaining
Because I’ve been looking at these questions socially rather than about: Well, maybe this would do it. Maybe solar will do it.
technically. I kind of burned out on the technical stuff, you know, Maybe Obama will do it. Maybe, maybe, maybe. And then
I trained as a physicist, I went and visited these inventors. I’ve depression when none of that works.
described them. I’ve written them up.
And then... the good news is that then you go over to the other
So now I’ve gone on to say: Well, logically, if this is possible, side of the table and the disciple way on the right is the Disciple
why don’t we do it? And what’s holding us back? And of course of Acceptance, and that’s usually the final phase of the grief
we know it’s The Powers That Be and people allowing TPTB to process where you say: Well, OK. This stuff happened. Gaia’s
do that to us. dead.
So that’s up to us, you see. The social and political process is up I accept the co-existence of the old and the new, that we’re
to us. But any logical person, any intelligent person who is not in almost like splitting into two different consciousnesses. One is
denial would say: Well, let’s check it out. Let’s see if this is the consciousness that’s directed toward solutions, and the other
344
one directed into the accepting the what-is, as it is, but not doing
it in a way that’s totally passive and where you’re just sitting here And what I’m talking about is systemic change, even going
and denying it, or in depression where you’re just not very beyond: Well, let’s go back to the Constitution. Let’s restore the
effective at anything, you know, just sorry for yourself. Clinton-Roosevelt-Keynesian kind of plans to tinker with the
system so we can have the good old days again, get out of this
According to Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, people need to go through depression.
these emotions, and I think in a sense humanity is going through
these emotions with respect to the loss of Mother Earth. That’s That’s what most people think about. And that’s what I might call
why it’s so important now to kind of passionately use whatever structural change. But that’s not enough, either. It has to be
means we can to address that question about what we can do. systemic. So whole new systems need to be defined.
And I think there are really solutions.
So that’s part of what we were trying to do at the Phoenix
So there’s Acceptance, then the Disciple of Creativity, Gathering. But it didn’t come to that. What happened was that,
Enlightenment, Empowerment, Joy, and Transcendence. And whenever a bold idea like free energy was presented to the
then, there’s the transcendent Gaia. pragmatists, they said: No, nah. You’ve got to prove it to me. If
there’s one ready at K-Mart I’ll go and pick it up for myself.
Meredith really ought to be here to interpret it, but this priest here
holding the sword... he’s laying down his weapons, his battle So those people weren’t really very useful in that kind of
weapons. And by the way, we have the Excalibur sword here. discussion. And they’re not. They were kind of forced into that
We’re going to do a ceremony tomorrow morning with that to set discussion because it was an intensive workshop, so they had to
the stage for Camelot. put up with some of my blithering about it. So those were the
pragmatists.
So.. and there’s the resurrected Gaia. So this is kind of the
symbolism of what we were working on for years, oh, I guess Then there were what you would call the spiritualists. These are
about ten years ago, after I traveled and visited the free energy people that see the big picture, people that come from a very
inventors. spiritual, holistic perspective. That would include... like we had a
couple of healers in the group, and you know, I really resonate
Now, one final thing, and then I’m going to hand it over to with that as well.
George. We’ve had one workshop here so far. It was called The
Phoenix Gathering. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this These are people who are very, very... Well, they’re quite
group, but there’s a lot of phoenix stuff going on. It was called accepting of these kinds of things. But at the same time, they’re
The Phoenix Gathering. not very powerful politically and they’re only part of the
democratic process. So they’re the spiritualists.
These are visionaries that came in from all over the world. And
they were kind of... randomly came. They were self-selecting. Then there were the deep ecologists. Now these are the people
There was a dynamically facilitated, very intensive workshop that that really thought the Earth was ruined, the sky was falling. And
lasted here for a week. We had professional facilitators. We had by the way, there’s a tremendous amount of validity with each
just lots of ideas thrown out there into the pot. point of view, I think.
And the idea was, through democratic discourse could we come So we heard from the deep ecologists. And one of them was so
up with a consensus? And the answer was: Well. Yeah. angry -- but he’s very angry about the state of the Earth.
Somewhat. And I was trying to figure out why couldn’t we come Justifiably, he’s going through the anger phase of grief such that
up with more of a consensus? Of course, you could say the three- he steamed out of the conference. He just exited just like that, he
letter word, ego... was so angry. He was just taking it out on, you know, the other
people around there. Because it was pretty intimate. You know,
But what I was able to observe -- because I spent most the time it’s 25 people, we’re sitting around a circle and interacting,
observing this, not participating quite so much, although I was whatever.
trying to promote free energy as a concept -- but the group kind
of were split about: Well, OK, what do we do about it? And then there was a fourth group: Ahh... the truth-seekers. Now,
the pragmatists would call the truth-seekers paranoids. Or
There was one group that I would call the pragmatists and that conspiracy theorists. I call them the truth-seekers. These are
was lead by a very articulate lawyer from New York City who people that really want to know what’s going on.
really knew how to do a conference, you know, get a synopsis
together, a précis, like a legal brief... [very loud birdsong But, you know, it’s really hard to know. And, as a trained
interrupts] Thank you, bird! scientist it’s very hard. I had great trouble putting up my own
discriminator and being able to vet this or that idea. And there
So that was one of the pragmatists. Very practical people. People were a lot of ideas thrown out there, so it takes a great deal of
that were probably more into bargaining right now, saying: Well, study – why I need a research assistant! Anyway, it takes a great
maybe solar will do it. Maybe Obama will do it, using existing deal of study to be able to effectively vet this or that concept.
systems.
Well, that’s what truth-seeking is all about. And I know that
And by the way, I wrote a public appeal, an open appeal, to Kerry and Bill and George have all done wonderful jobs in trying
Obama from a very concerned citizen about some of these to uncover the truth. And that’s going to be a theme, a very
questions, that the kind of change... he talks about change... that important theme, in this conference.
his kind of change is more incremental and at most structural.
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And I went away from the conference, The Phoenix Gathering,

thinking: Well, all four cultures are represented but very few of And it’s not to deny them; it’s just that sometimes some of the
the people there represented more than one of those cultures. other ideas fall through the cracks. So, in any kind of democratic
And wouldn’t it be nice in a better world to bring them together discourse in the future, it would be really good for people to learn
and not to deny the existence of another culture? to tolerate and understand the other cultures as well.
It’s like Israel / Palestine, I guess. It’s sort of like you’ve got to And in a way I think I identify much more with indigenous
be able to embrace the other cultures. That’s one kind of nugget I cultures than I do with the western culture, as we spend more and
came up with and I think as we come together in communities... more time here in Ecuador.
And by the way, the most significant conclusion of The Phoenix Anyway, I thank you for you patience. And I think I’m going to
Gathering was re-localization. I mean, that’s the common give the floor over to George after a quick stretch break.
denominator, I think, of just about any kind of sentient gathering
that’s going on these days. It makes so much sense. Grow your [applause]
own food, just be local in everything. Form community, barter,
local currency, so forth and so on. I love those ideas.
.
View from Dr. O’Leary’s front yard at Montesuenos, Vilcabamba, Ecuador, South America, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
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Project Camelot:
Dr. Brian O'Leary - The Energy Solution Revolution
Vilcabamba, Ecuador, January 2009
from university to university, and this, I think, helped prepare the

way for the later half of my life, which was really quite different
from the first half.
The first half was more traditional, more being a physicist who
was very familiar with, for example, energy and environment
issues, having advised Congress and having taught courses on it.
I was also aware of atmospheric science and some of the things

that were ahead for the Earth which are now very familiar, such
as global warming, global climate change, and a number of other
human-related catastrophes that are happening on the Earth now.
So, in a sense, my own straight academic background was a good

one, good preparation for studying energy policy: What kind of
choices do we really have in the energy crisis? But also: To what
degree are humans interfering with the Earth?
Start of Interview
And so, the second half of my life, if you will: After I was in the
physics department at Princeton in 1979, I started to have some
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project unusual experiences -- remote viewing experiences, a near-death
Camelot, and we’re here with Dr. Brian O’Leary. He’s a lecturer, experience, various healing experiences then that opened
scientist, ex-astronaut, and we’re very pleased to be with him Pandora’s Box up.
today. And we’re here in beautiful Ecuador at Montesuenos,
which is your retreat, I think you want to call it. What we want to I was at that time in the physics department at Princeton. My
do is kind of get into your background. colleagues, many of them Nobel Laureates, all men, thought I
was crazy to embrace paranormal phenomena.
Dr. Brian O’Leary (BO’L): Yes. I’m afraid that at my ripe old
age of 69 that my background has been pretty eclectic and it’s Then later I got into the UFO phenomena. I lead a number of
kind of hard to pin me down, like, you know: Who is this guy? scientific groups to get together to try to disclose the research that
was going on.
But it all started back when I was a little kid and I wanted to go
into space. I wanted to go to the Moon. I wanted to go to Mars, And it was around that time I began to get in touch with all the
and there was no space program then. And then, somewhat “Black Projects”, not from the inside, but from the outside, kind
ironically, I got involved in the Apollo Program, twelve years of peering in and seeing what was happening, that there’s been
after I wanted to go into space and nobody thought there would this massive cover-up.
ever be a space program.
Well, one thing lead to another. I spent a number of years after I
This was back in the late ’40s, early ’50s. But when Sputnik went left Princeton -- and now we’re getting into the ’80s -- of
up, then the whole world changed. And it was also around then exploring various things like the “Face”on Mars, NASA’s cover-
that there was more awareness of the UFO phenomenon, up of that, and looking further at the UFO phenomena.
paranormal phenomena.
I published a number of books, a trilogy, basically, in which I
And so, what happened with me was that I went on one track, kind of review the state of the art of “new science”, or science-
which was a very ambitious career which was actually quite outside-the-box-of-western-thinking.
fulfilled, because I became an astronaut after getting my PhD in
astronomy at Berkeley. So we have, for example… In this book [Exploring Inner and
Outer Space] I talk about the state of the art of UFO research, but
And then I got involved in planetary exploration, some of the I also talk about consciousness, the mind-over-matter interaction,
Mariner programs. I taught with Carl Sagan at Cornell University the fact that exploring outer space and exploring inner space can
and did research on planetary science. lead to all sorts of new paradigms of reality.
Then I went to Washington, became an advisor to various Then, in The Second Coming of Science, this book here, I did
political leaders, various presidential candidates. some very careful studies that replicated the work of many
pioneers of new science -- people such as Marcel Vogel. I would
I was kind of like an “academic drifter” in many ways. Even go and visit various miracle-makers, like Sai Baba, and saw him
though on paper I was successful, I would be kind of hopping
347
materialize things. I went all over the world. I went to Brazil to be implemented there is what I call incremental change, tiny little
visit Thomaz Green Morton, a very gifted psychic. things.
Then I began to get more interested in the environment. At that And then, meanwhile, the progressives that are trying to nip on
point I published Miracle in the Void, which was a photo- his heels are saying: Well, we need structural change. We need to
journalistic look at some of the best and brightest free energy go back to the Constitution. We need to have a kind of
researchers all over the world -- India, Japan, and so forth. Rooseveltian New Deal and Keynesian economy. We need
something that is like going back to a point of reference, like the
I began to realize that we could solve our energy problem really Roosevelt or Clinton administration.
quite quickly if we only embrace these technologies. However,
they’ve been suppressed, and sometimes violently suppressed. And that’s not going to work. So when none of these things work,
then, according to the work of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, then we go
So in this book, Miracle in the Void, which was really a into depression.
collaboration with my wife Meredith, an artist… she was painting
her masterpiece, The Last Supper of Gaia, while I was writing A lot of people are depressed. I’ve noticed this. A lot of people,
this book… especially in the US, they’re just not very happy with what’s
going on. That happens also when people lose their loved ones.
And what I discovered was that paradigm shifts are more a social They get depressed after denial, anger, and bargaining, and then,
/ political phenomenon than a technological question, that it goes finally people get into acceptance.
way beyond the drama of outside researchers coming up with
breakthroughs which then are suppressed. The point here is that the Earth is getting ruined by human
intervention. I mean, it’s so obvious.
It has to do with creating whole new structures which are
supported by the larger culture. And we need to seek the truth. So, part of what I did was publish
a book called Re-Inheriting the Earth, which was awakening to
In fact, what’s happening now on the planet is that we are sustainable solutions, and many of them lie far outside the box of
grieving the loss of Mother Earth. And even though this is a conventional thinking.
subconscious thing, what happens is that, according to the work
of Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, we go through various phases of That’s why I’m so interested in the free energy question, very
grieving -- grieving the loss of our mother planet. interested in some of the questions of ways of purifying water in
ways that have not been acknowledged before.
So Meredith and I became avid environmentalists. What I
attempted to do then -- and now we’re talking the middle 1990s -- I’m very interested in the phenomena of consciousness, how
was to examine what psychological effects come through each of Combined Positive Human Intention can really and truly change
us as we begin to embrace the new paradigm. the material world. These are ideas, now, that are proven by
quantum physics, and paranormal phenomena.
Meredith and I collaborated on this project. What we were able to
identify -- and this is based on the work of Elisabeth Kubler- And so, this whole array of solutions -- in principle -- could
Ross, On Death and Dying -- is that we’ve all grieving the loss of work, if only we can change the system. Only if we could change
Mother Earth. By all I mean those of us that are sensitive and our governance, our public awareness, and education.
aware of the problems that are unfolding on the planet.
So, that’s what I’ve been all about in the last few years. My most
What Meredith and I figured out was that many of us are in recent book is called The Energy Solution Revolution, which is
denial -- most of us -- about the severity of the problems, such as based on my 20 years of experience at examining the proofs-of-
global climate change, such as the possibility of nuclear war, the concept of free energy devices. By free energy I mean… Free
war in Iraq, and so forth and so on… that these things fly in the energy is sometimes a funny word. Maybe we could use the word
face of what we really need to be doing, which is developing solution energy.
clean energy, making sure we have clean water, having an
international system of justice, depending more and more on These represent quantum-leap breakthroughs from what we now
local resources, local rule, and… know. It’s going way beyond solar and wind in term of
cleanliness.
But anyway, most people are in denial about everything,
including the UFO phenomenon and free energy, which are two It’s actually… It’s sort of analogous to “The Information Age.”
of my favorite topics, both of which I’ve found, for myself, are Who would have ever imagined that computers and internet
very free. would have existed, even 20 years ago? It was only a small
number of people who foresaw that.
So then we go from denial on to anger: The truth’ll set you free,
but first it will piss you off. What I foresee, along with many colleagues who’ve been
suppressed, is that we can have a free energy, or a solution
Then we go into bargaining: How can we fit the new within the energy, culture in the world.
context of the old?
By solution energy I mean vacuum energy -- energy from the
A lot of people were stimulated by Barack Obama’s comments vacuum of space -- which is well known to the yogis, that
about how we need change. Well, the kind of change that would everywhere has enormous amounts of potential energy, if we can
only tap into it. And there are ways of tapping into it.
348
Because clearly you’ve had a huge sort of arc, learning curve,

So, some of my world travels, and the work of my colleagues, whatever you want to call it, in which you’ve really traversed
and various professional organizations, has proven beyond any quite a gamut of things and concepts. And actually, as a scientist,
reasonable doubt that these forms of energy are unprecedented. you’ve moved quite a distance from being sort of a hands-on
They do exist. The Wright brothers have already flown on this scientist, I guess, that is conventionally thought of as a scientist.
one. We’re just not making practical use.
You’ve actually become something of an innovative thinker, and
The reason why we’re not making practical use of these energy even maybe, loosely, a philosopher. But you’ve never lost sight
sources is because they are suppressed. Actively. of the science. So, at this point you’re really an interesting
combination of these things.
The people that work on these things are threatened, assassinated.
And manipulated. Bought off. When somebody gets near And so, what I’d like to do is talk about your background as an
realization, that’s when the big boys go in, and this has happened astronaut. You were preparing to go to Mars, I understand.
again and again and again.
BO’L: Yes.
So, that’s a very important part of the awareness training of the
general public. It’s also part of the very important work that KC: And yet you never went. If you could tell me a little bit
Project Camelot is doing, which is to interview many people about what was going in your head back then, when you were…
formerly on the inside, maybe still on the inside. what do you say… in the astronaut program. Where were you at,
you know, psychologically? So that we can kind of get the arc of
I’ve never been on the inside, but I sure know how the inside the change. Because I think that would be fascinating for people.
works, and what their agenda is, and their motivations, which
flies in the face of development, potential development, of free BO’L: Yes, Kerry. Yes. That’s a good question, and a complex
energy. one. But I think from a very early age I always… I’ve always
been a visionary; I’ve thought outside the box. When I was a
And we all know also, and many people don’t quite understand it little kid I was drawing rockets and wanted to go to the Moon.
is: Well, if it’s real, then we’d have it by now… just go down to Even my high school yearbook says under my name: He wants to
K-Mart and get my little solid-state power-pack. And we can go go to the Moon. And people were laughing. [Kerry laughs] This
off the grid system. Everything is clean. Everybody’s happy. was before Sputnik!
But it doesn’t quite work out that way. It takes money and time to KC: Wonderful.
develop it. So we need an Apollo Program for new energy -- new
energy meaning vacuum energy, cold fusion, advanced hydrogen BO’L: Everybody thought I was crazy.
and water technologies.
KC: OK.
There’s quite a long list of technologies, any one of which would
do it. But it’s going to take effort to develop these energy BO’L: Then I majored in physics. I didn’t enjoy it. It was kind of
sources. dry, but I realized that I’d better know some of that stuff if I
wanted to go to the Moon. And then, as luck would have it, of
So, in The Energy Solution Revolution, I address less the course, John F. Kennedy in 1961 set the lunar landing goal, and I
technical issues, because the internet and the general literature’s got very enthused. I was in graduate school at the time.
just full of information on the technologies themselves. But
instead, I’ve looked at the political and social questions, and the A few years later I got my PhD at Berkeley in astronomy and
educational questions. planetary science. So I had really prepped myself to go to Mars
because my PhD thesis was about Mars.
You know: Why is it that otherwise intelligent people would not
embrace this possibility, if it’s going to solve the energy And indeed, I was selected to go to Mars. I was even asked by the
problem? And, of course, people don’t do it for a number of selection committee in my interview: Would you be willing to
reasons. There’ve been a number of studies done. It’s really a submit to a hazardous two-year journey to Mars? And I said:
social science question as to why there’s such resistance to this Fine. I don’t know whether my wife would like it, but I want to
change. go.
Bertrand Russell one time said: The resistance to a new idea I was gung ho. I had a crew cut. It was very different from the
increases as the square of its importance. way things are for me now. It was later I became a hippy, sort of,
you know… an alternative thinker, shall we say?
If we’re talking about supplanting a four-billion-dollar energy
industry, highly polluting, with a clean energy that’s cheap and But I think all of this was inbred in me. I’d always had problems
decentralized, then we’re talking about a paradigm shift, and The with authority. I always had problems with rules. That’s one
Powers That Be don’t want that to happen. reason why I’d go from university to university. I was recognized
more for mediocrity and doing research on tiny little specialties. I
KC: OK. Brian, that’s a wonderful summary of everything was well rewarded when that happened.
you’ve been involved in over the past few years. What I’d like to
do is actually go back in time and get something about, kind of, But when I had some visionary idea, such as space colonies, or
the things that triggered you to become the man you are today. mining the asteroids for their raw materials, people would scratch
their heads and say: Well, this guy isn’t quite with it. [Kerry
349
laughs] One colleague said: Brian, don’t have such an open mind that was very frivolous. Because, of course, he was kind of an
that your brains will spill out. And it was only later, though, empire-builder kind of guy; and he also had a huge ego.
that…
It was only later, when I began to embrace the UFO phenomenon
You see, I was still in the materialistic paradigm. I was still and the cover-up, studying all these organizations that were
assuming that anything and everything could be explained in covering up, and having some direct experience, myself, as a
terms of matter, and in terms of reductionism, and everything researcher no longer beholden to funding from NASA or the
made up of little atoms. university environment, that I began to double-check some of
Carl’s work.
KC: Right. The normal scientific paradigm.
I saw, for example, the famous “Face” in Cydonia on Mars,
BO’L: Yes. photographed by Viking in 1975, which shows this gigantic mesa
that resembles a human face, about a mile across. Carl and I
KC: So what happened to take you from the astronaut program debated this.
to actually being a professor? I understand you were tapped, but
you also sort of left the astronaut program. So how did that It was very, very disappointing to me, because not only was Carl
happen? wrong, he also fudged data. He published a picture of the “Face”
in Parade Magazine, a popular article, saying that the “Face” was
BO’L: Well, I left the astronaut program because they cancelled just a natural formation, but he doctored the picture to make it not
the Mars program, and I felt that… And we knew that the Space look like a face.
Shuttle was coming along, but the wait for that would have to be
at least 15 years. I began to realize, just directly from the scientific point of view,
not only hearsay, that this man was colluding with NASA, that
We also had to fly high-performance jets. I calculated that I’d there might be more to this than before. And then, when I started
have a one-in-five chance of being killed in a jet accident -- studying things like MJ12 and other organizations that were
which is both Air Force and astronaut statistics -- even before I covering up the UFO phenomenon…
got to see a space flight, and it would just be into Earth orbit in
the Space Shuttle. So I decided right then and there to quit, and… Carl was on a committee with a number of notable people. There
was a report issued by the Brookings Institution in 1961 -- and
But there was an additional reason, and that is that the reason that’s about when I knew Carl, during those years; the ’60s
why NASA had canceled the Mars mission was because we were mostly was when I worked closely with him -- that he and this
getting involved in Vietnam. So I really got pretty angry about other group said: Well, if any ETs ever showed up on the Earth, it
the Vietnam War, for me personally as well as for the whole has to be covered up. That’s the only way we’re going to be able
country, the whole world, and so I became a leading war to manage this, because if we can’t, then it would be too much of
protestor. a culture shock.
Carl Sagan called me from Cornell and asked me to join the So their recommendation to the government in 1961 was to cover
faculty. I accepted the offer and spent many years at Cornell in up the UFO phenomenon, and I think in a way that provided a
the astronomy department, planetary science department. And I justification for the ongoing cover-up way back in ’61 -- was to
became very creative in research then, but still within the bounds keep things secret. And of course they still are.
of western science, but in the planetary exploration program.
That was for a period of about a decade. KC: So, at what point were you… Where did Hoagland come
into this mix? Because once you were talking about the “Face”
Then, after that, I got more politically involved and I advised a on Mars, I have to assume that you had some interaction with
number of presidential candidates -- George McGovern, Morris Hoagland.
Udall. I worked for Udall. I was his energy advisor when he ran
for president. He was a very environmental congressman. BO’L: Yes. He… Actually, he’s a great catalyst. He’s very
articulate. He’s very bright. He had some very good ideas. He
I advised Jesse Jackson on converting the huge aerospace came to me in about… I think it was around 1980. It was a few
capability we have to peaceful purposes, like developing solution years after the Viking mission, and I was still involved with the
energy and other programs that would be of use to the public and mainstream then.
not to just this hungry elite.
So Dick Hoagland wanted me -- still being a somewhat
It was around then that I really became rebellious. I went from mainstream planetary scientist -- to listen to him, listen to his
university to university and I never was satisfied. presentation about the Cydonia “Face,” and he made a
presentation which I thought was very good.
KC: But isn’t there a time in which you and Carl Sagan sort of
had a falling-out, or a distancing? Can you describe what He asked me to check his work. I thought a great deal of the work
happened there? was extremely well done and which I vindicated enough to say
that, Yes. I, too, would like to get into this research, and then the
BO’L: Yes. Well, for one thing, Carl was very angry I left research started to snowball. So that was the good news.
Cornell when I did. It was… One very cold snowy day in May, I
landed in Syracuse, and there was a horizontal blizzard -- in May The not-so-good news is that he also made a lot of claims that
-- and I said: That’s it for upstate New York. And Carl thought were certainly not correct. They were scientifically not well
grounded. He was arbitrary in picking some of the points in the
350
region as control points for various geometric alignments, which there. So it was like a double whammy. And so, in my case, I left
were simply not true. So I also had somewhat of a falling-out before they could have caused problems. Whereas John Mack…
with him because…
KC: And where did you go? When you say you left, where were
You see, most scientists, people trained in science, as a you headed? Did you know where you were headed, or were you
scientist… In a way I still defend mainstream science in terms of just leaving?
methodology, that you have to have your work subject to peer
review in order to get it published. And I think that’s very good. BO’L: No. I just left. I just left.
You know, it’s really good to preserve the scientific method.
KC: Oh. Fascinating. Because that’s huge. Wouldn’t you say
So I found myself in this odd middle ground between people that that that’s your major break with academia?
were outside the system making claims, such as Dick Hoagland
did, some of which are very, very substantial and good, on the BO’L: Yes.
one hand; and on the other hand, using strict scientific methods to
approach these questions. KC: From then on you kind of took a trajectory that actually
went like that, in a sense?
Eventually some colleagues joined me and a number of us now
have worked together, such as Dr. Mark Carlotto, an imaging BO’L: Yes. Yes. I did… In the interim I had a near-death
scientist; Professor Stan McDaniel, Chairman of the Philosophy experience in an auto accident which prompted me to go to
Department at Sonoma State; Doctor Horace Crater, Professor of California. Go west, young man. [laughs] So I took all my
Physics, University of Tennessee; the late Dr. Tom Van Flandern. worldly possessions and bought a beat-up old Ford van and threw
it in there and drove to California in 1982.
These are all mainstream scientists, trained in the mainstream just
like I was, and also open to the questions, such as the “Face” on KC: Wow.
Mars.
BO’L: This was just after a near-death experience I had in an
So, in a way, it was kind of a roundabout way, because now that I auto accident, which was yet another paranormal indicator that
was out of the main stream… Because all I have to do is stick my where I was and what I was doing was not working for me.
neck out a little to be totally ostracized by the mainstream
scientific community and that happened around 1980. KC: When you say you had a near-death experience… You
know, I’m not sure how you feel about that, but is it possible to
KC: Was that when you were at Princeton? convey to us what connected that experience with the
paranormal? Did you actually…meaning, did you die and see
BO’L: Yes. certain things?
KC: OK. So what… because I know there are some parallels BO’L: My near-death experience was during an auto accident on
between you and the late John Mack. I know you knew him, and slick ice that suddenly appeared and fortunately I was by myself.
how he was treated by Harvard. And so, can you talk a little bit I did several flips. I was going 65 mph. I ended up in a ditch,
about what happened to you at Princeton? accordion-style.
BO’L: Well, yes. Actually, I think I left before they threw me But my experience of the accident was not of the violence, but
out [Kerry laughs] because I saw the handwriting on the wall. I instead, a brilliant light -- first of all, bobbing spheres, and then a
was in the physics department. All men. Nobel Laureates, about brilliant light that I wanted to become at-one with. I did become
five or six Nobel Laureates. And every other Tuesday at the at-one with it.
Joseph Henry Luncheons, we would swill a thimbleful of sherry,
and the most common topic of discussion was how ridiculous Then, the next thing I knew, I was sitting in the driver’s seat,
claims of the paranormal were. dazed, shocked, and a man was at the window of the car. He was
a professional auto insurance adjustor who had witnessed the
Meanwhile, I was sneaking off to workshops on the weekends. I accident, and he said: I’m amazed you’re alive, let alone
did a Lifespring training. I did a number of other healing uninjured.
seminars, and so forth. I started to step outside of the box and I
found that they were very wrong. But my colleagues were also… And that, to me, was a profound experience, because at that point
they had more power than I did at that time. So I felt the most I hadn’t studied the paranormal very much. I was still at
prudent thing to do was to simply leave, and that’s what I did. Princeton. I was just getting my appetite whetted about some of
these things, about human potential and about my own
KC: But how did their antagonism towards you manifest in that experiences. I had remote viewing experiences. I had the near-
setting? death experience. I had healing experiences.
BO’L: [laughs] Well, for one thing, when I left, there were no And that was kind of my signpost to leave Princeton and to just
regrets because the word got around that I was going off half- go on my own, and that was a risky thing. I ended up in
cocked here, in embracing paranormal phenomena. California, in LA, looking for a job in the aerospace industry so I
could get my kids through college.
They were looking askance anyway because at that time I was
working with Professor Gerard O’Neill on space colonies, and But to do civilian work, I did find a position with Science
even those concepts were a bit far-out for the other physicists Applications which turned out to be a… You know. It’s one of
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the “Black Budget Beltway Bandit” groups. [Kerry laughs] But I So we were both in the closet at that point. He didn’t know what I
didn’t… I wasn’t involved in… was doing. I didn’t know what he was doing, although we were
colleagues on various mainstream projects, such as developing
KC: Is that SAIC? propulsion systems to go to Mars.
BO’L: SAIC. Yes. His specialty was various advanced propulsion systems for
rockets. He was the chairman, well, actually the Dean of the
KC: They’re notorious, actually, for being part of the black School of Engineering at Princeton. I would put on a number of
budget. conferences with Jerry [Gerard] O’Neill on space colonies, space
settlements, and Bob John took part in those.
BO’L: Yes. And I had nothing to do with it. I refused to do any
work for the military, even “peaceful” work, like satellites to just So I knew him pretty well, but not in this role of paranormal
sense threats, to defend themselves. I was even offered to do that research. That only happened later, when I visited his laboratory
and I refused to do it. and did an interview with him for one of my books, The Second
Coming of Science, that our whole relationship was redefined.
After four and a half years, just before I got vested in my
retirement plan, they laid me off, and they had good reason to, It was around then that I also developed a relationship with John
too. I didn’t pull in any money! [Kerry laughs] So it was then -- Mack as I was learning more and more about the UFO
and now we’re talking 1987 -- that I made a clean break with the phenomenon and some of the more verifiable aspects of its
mainstream. reality.
KC: OK. So, in a way, I’ve had a ball in my life because I was able to be
very independent. I didn’t have to depend on anybody for career
BO’L: I got my kids halfway through college, and then I got on purposes. I didn’t get paid very much. I was, you know, living
the metaphysical church circuit, Unity and Religious Science very simply for a period of 20 or 30 years… still do in a sense
churches. And that’s how I kind of made a living for about a because, you know, we just do things a little differently.
decade while I was just metaphysically exploring, just going into
so many modalities of alternative thinking. The point is that for, I would say now almost 30 years, I haven’t
had to be beholden to anybody to approve what I’m doing.
What I discovered during that decade of the ’80s into the ’90s,
and that’s what created my books, was that you could use the KC: That’s incredible.
methods of science itself to verify, and to further develop,
metaphysical realities. BO’L: But on the other hand, that can create problems, too, and
it did.
KC: Mm hm. Yes.
KC: Sure.
BO’L: And that’s what really fascinated me.
BO’L: When Black Ops tried to recruit me once and I refused,
KC: You can actually use the scientific method to investigate the there were consequences and they were very serious. But without
occult as well. sharing exactly what they were, suffice it to say that I began to
realize that at that time, and I’m talking 20 or so years ago, I was
BO’L: That’s right. Absolutely. pretty naïve. I was wanting to do all kinds of things like organize
conferences, get researchers together to speak in a unified way
KC: It’s a great method, regardless of where it’s applied, in some about various issues. But that was not well appreciated by The
ways. Powers That Be.
Bill Ryan (BR): While you were are Princeton before that, didn’t KC: I want to get into that because that’s a really interesting part
you find a kindred spirit in Robert John? His is a name that many of your history. But before we do that, you did say you got to
viewers of this video will probably recognize as being a pioneer, know John Mack? I think he was a friend of yours…
and one of the trail-breaking “scientific heretics” in the field of
paranormal exploration with the rigorous application of the BO’L: Yes.
scientific method. I imagine that you probably got along with him
pretty well. KC: …and I was curious, did he ever, I don’t know, regress you?
Did you have what he would consider a contact experience?
BO’L: Yes. Absolutely, Bill. I got along with him very well. But
the odd thing about it was that at the time when he was starting to BO’L: Not to my knowledge. I didn’t have that kind of
do his experiments at the Princeton Engineering Anomalies relationship with him. The relationship was more like…
Research Laboratory, Paralabs, he was doing a lot of the research
while I was there, but I didn’t know what he was doing. When I was really heavy into UFO research during the 1990s, I
was attempting to piece together the best information that was
He didn’t know what I was doing, either, because I didn’t want to scientifically most grounded and also found out: Well, what is the
share with my colleagues the fact that I was sneaking off to contact experience telling us? This lead on his part and my part
workshops on weekends, or that I was having paranormal to have a profound sense of colleagueship and deep concern
experiences. about the fate of the Earth, the fate of our culture, because the
environmental problems are so severe.
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so that my efforts to unify, organize, scientists to express freely

KC: And that’s because the contactees were coming back with was, like a lot of other researchers, was considered not so good.
this message, basically, kind of almost across the board. Is that
right? KC: But at that point… I understand that was sort of one more
brick in the wall at that point, but you didn’t actually stop doing
BO’L: That’s correct. His book, Passport to the Cosmos, which that, stop doing the conferences because of that, did you?
was his latest book before his untimely death, was really an
account of that. The most common denominator of the contact BO’L: No. I kept going.
experience was that the visitors were telling us, and doing
graphic, emotionally-charged images of what the Earth would KC: Mm hm.
look like if we keep doing things the way we’re doing them.
BO’L: I kept going and I’ve lived to tell the story, and I’m very
And so, John came to this issue from the point of view of grateful for that.
abduction research. I came to it from the point of view of just
looking at the numbers, at just how the state of the world is just KC: That was through the ’90s.
miserable, that we’ve got not that much longer before tipping
points will destabilize climate, and all sorts of catastrophes. BO’L: Mm hm.
That’s even setting aside the possibility of nuclear war, of KC: OK. And at some point you also got involved with Mallove.
bankrupt… well, everything is getting bankrupt now anyway. I Is that right?
mean, it’s disaster ahead unless we change our ways.
BO’L: That’s right. Eugene Mallove was… just kind of to tell
John kind of saw the light. Robert John at Princeton saw the light. you the story briefly… was the chief science writer for MIT. He
And little by little, you see, as scientists, we as colleagues came had a doctorate in education and was a brilliant writer.
together. But it took a long time -- we’ve been divided and ruled.
In 1989 Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, two chemists
KC: Would you say that in some ways you kind of became a from the University of Utah, claimed that they’d made a
figure, or a central person, around which a lot of these people breakthrough called cold fusion in which, when they put a
could come together? On the one hand, the UFO researchers -- I palladium cathode into a solution of heavy water, that, strangely
know that you started setting up conferences. You would bring enough, nuclear reactions would occur on the cathode to create
them in. But on the other hand you were actually bringing helium and the release of thermal energy which was non-
scientists to the table, such as John Mack and Robert John. radioactive.
BO’L: That’s correct. I co-founded an organization called the It was basically room-temperature fusion, which is quite different
International Association for New Science and we had annual from the traditional definition of fusion, which is to simulate the
conferences between about 1989 and 1999. The other co-founder, hydrogen bomb, and build these enormous reactors called
God rest his soul, Maury [Maurice] Albertson, who was a Tokomacs -- theycost tens of millions of dollars -- and would
professor of civil engineering at Colorado State, he and I and one attempt to confine a plasma of hot hydrogen so that they can fuse
other fellow basically founded it. together to release that thermal energy for generating electricity.
Sort of like nuclear power, fission power, except it’s fusion, and
We had conferences, and we’d convene people in various it’s even more powerful.
disciplines in what we would call “new science”, which would
include free energy, UFO research, paranormal research, And so what went on was this kind of philosophical falling-out. It
reincarnation research. was this typical “scientific heresy” type of thing where the hot
fusion physicists, which pretty much controlled the Department
We’d bring in some of the best scientists in those fields and we’d of Energy at MIT and Caltech and places like that, immediately
create a collegiality and also do a public program of lectures that banded together and they tried to discredit this discovery.
would then pay for the travel of the people. We kind of worked
on a shoestring budget. I’m sure you’re familiar with that one. So, Gene Mallove took an interest in this issue, and he at first had
[Kerry laughs] But there was a lot of ambition and motivation. the prejudice just like we all do, I think, on the side of caution.
[He] felt that: Yes, these guys at the University of Utah are
Maury just passed over, but at the ripe age of about 90. So he’s probably crazy, and he would join the physicists at MIT and
one of my heroes. A lot of my heroes have passed over, and some write a story about just what bunk and poppycock this cold fusion
of them more recently than others, so it’s kind of like a lonely breakthrough was.
business sometimes.
What Mallove found out, much to his surprise, was that the hot
KC: So it was during the time when you were putting these fusion scientists at MIT who tried to replicate the experiment…
conferences together that you actually felt there was a hit on you First of all, they didn’t know the science. They weren’t chemists.
from the secret government, if you will. Is that correct? I mean, They were nuclear physicists, very different field. But also…
I’m not sure how you would term it.
The point is that Mallove found that the MIT hot fusion
BO’L: Well, yes. [hesitantly] Let’s say that I’ve had a situation physicists were fudging their data to make it look like it wasn’t
that was threatening to me and it was as a result of some of my there, whereas as in fact the data showed it was there. Their
work. And also it’s happened to many of my colleagues as well, discovery was vindicated.
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So this lead Mallove to write an article that was like an expose on BO’L: It’s the search for the Holy Grail. Well, the Holy Grail
this, whereupon he was fired [laughs] from MIT. And then he has been found. [Kerry laughs] It’s just that most people don’t
started Infinite Energy Magazine and became a leading organizer realize that.
of scientists and advocate of… at first it was cold fusion, then he
expanded his repertoire to vacuum energy and various forms of KC: OK. Well, so you seem to be like such an enigma, in a
advanced hydrogen energy. sense, because you were trained in the astronaut program. And
then you went through academia, and you had to be highly
KC: And you used to write articles for his publication? Is that rewarded during that time. Yet you still thought outside the box
right? and you still made all these adventurous changes in your life.
And then, here you are in Ecuador. Even that takes a great deal of
BO’L: Yes. See, he started a magazine called Infinite Energy. courage, to leave everything you know and start a new life.
Yes. Excellent magazine. I think it will go into history as one of
the seminal, breakthrough publications of all time. And this has got to be like a slap in the face of the military /
industrial complex, that here you are, you’ve become this
He would write scathing editorials about how the scientific incredible rebel, and yet you have all these degrees, and so on.
community is stuck in the mud about questions like free energy,
and he, I’m sure, rattled a lot of cages in his work. I know there was an issue where they tried to actually bury your
background as an ex-astronaut, which is unbelievable. I know
And then, of course, the rest is history. In 2004 some thieves that there actually has been some attempt to change the definition
broke into his house and brutally murdered him. We don’t know of what an ex-astronaut or an astronaut candidate is so that they
the exact cause, but I think we know the motive. It’s just too could actually wipe your record clean.
much of a coincidence, because he rattled a lot of cages. His loss
was a great loss for me. He was one of my heroes. I think you’ve had more than one experience in this way. And
there are certainly many people out there that have had similar
KC: Mm hm. things happen to them, especially when they’re rebels, free
thinkers, people that are going outside the box of the old
BO’L: So when you see heroes living in your time, and people paradigm. So if you could talk a little bit about what happened to
with whom you have a close connection, and they’re suddenly you?
dead, it does cause concern.
BO’L: Yes, Kerry. Well, I was appointed to the astronaut
KC: And it was at that point -- because we’re in Ecuador right program in 1967, and my title then was astronaut. I even have
now -- that I understand that you decided to actually leave the hanging on the wall here… I don’t have the accurate date, but I’d
States. say roughly around 1990 it came to my attention…
BO’L: Well, it was one of the reasons. Yes. One of the reasons Well, I’ll backtrack a little bit. A reporter from the San Diego
was just to “retire,” just to, you know, live out our lives in peace Union Tribune interviewed me after I gave a talk in San Diego.
and harmony but still do my work, you know, write books and Part of my credentials said “ex-astronaut”. And one of the people
give lectures and organize conferences. And that I intend to on the board of the San Diego Union Tribune was Wally Schirra,
continue doing. one of the original seven Mercury astronauts who, unbeknownst
to me, formed what was called The Society for Space Explorers,
But I’m really very glad to be here. It’s so very peaceful. And, in which the term astronaut was redefined to “anybody that went
you know, I just hope that together we can create a bright new 50 miles above the Earth’s surface.”
future that has an opportunity to move ahead.
So in a way I was defrocked when Schirra hit the ceiling, and
I think that’s one of my bottom-line messages now, is that people apparently the reporter lost his position… just like the first
need to become more aware because logic alone, common sense reporter that covered the first Wright brothers’ flight was fired
alone, says we should leave no stone unturned in seeking clean from his position by his editor for not believing that heavier-than-
energy sources for our future. air flight was possible. So this is just, once again, a reporter was
fired for using the “wrong” credential. Well, I found that out.
We should leave no stone unturned in our investigation of the ET
phenomenon because there’s a lot we can learn from this. And then shortly after that, an organization with which I worked
some, MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network in the US, also it came
There’s a lot we can do in the future to redirect us instead of to their attention that maybe in fact I was not an astronaut. [Kerry
having this to be the sole territory of black budgets and people laughs] So they wrote to NASA, and NASA said: Well in fact he
who want to cover up things -- but the general public is not aware wasn’t.
of this.
KC: They said you were NOT.
KC: Mm hm.
BO’L: I was not.
BO’L: They’re not aware that free energy, or solution energy,
could be the Holy Grail of our time. And that’s where the KC: They actually wrote to NASA?
Camelot theme comes in.
BO’L: Well, I think so. I’m not absolutely sure of the details, but
KC: Sure. I can tell you who would know is Bob Bletchman, who was the
lawyer for MUFON at the time.
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KC: So if somebody was doing an article on you and wanted to

KC: Uh huh. investigate and called Caltech today, they will say that you never
worked there.
BO’L: Anyway, Bob Bletchman wrote me, and it was kind of a
challenging letter that basically said: Many of us feel that you BO’L: Exactly.
misrepresented your credentials. So I presented my credentials to
Bob Bletchman and he became convinced that, indeed, that was KC: Amazing.
my title at the time, and that indeed it was appropriate to use that
in my credentials. BO’L: Yes. [laughs]
KC: Incredible. KC: It just shows you how the machine works. And I think that
this is very instructive to many people who challenge a lot of
BO’L: Not that I used it all the time because, actually, I whistleblowers on the fact that their credentials have disappeared,
wouldn’t, because I was trying to get away from that controversy. you know?
And, you know, there’s much more about me besides being an
ex-astronaut that’s kind of interesting anyway. [laughter] BO’L: Yes. Yes.
So it didn’t matter to me too much one way or the other. But I got KC: So this is very instructive. Here you are, working in free
vindicated because MUFON challenged me in public and then energy. You’re an ex-astronaut. I know there’s a video on Google
later vindicated me, that indeed I was an astronaut. So that was in which you are actually speaking before the White House
cleared up. during the Bush administration, not so long ago. And you know,
very fiery, very impressive, very courageous, basically saying
Now, on another occasion: For a year I had a visiting faculty that Bush should not be in office and talking to some degree
appointment at Caltech during the Mariner 10 mission in which I about the cover-up.
was deputy team leader of the Television Imaging Science Team
for Mariner 10 that went by Venus and Mercury during the That’s tremendously courageous, and yet I didn’t know anything
1970s. about it until we started to investigate coming to see you and all.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Professor Bruce Murray, who later became the director of JPL,
appointed me deputy team leader during that time. I was at And then I know that you also did the same thing back in the
Caltech and worked on the mission with him and some of the Nixon administration, but the number of people around you was
other scientists. strikingly reduced. And I want to do that because I want to talk
about how times are changing.
So, fast-forward to the year 2000 and a very bright senior honors
physics student who knew that I was researching solution BO’L: Yes.
energies such as cold fusion and so forth said: Gee, you ought to
come to Caltech. Would you like to speak at our Commencement KC: And what may be coming down the line.
as a speaker for Alternative Future Science such as cold fusion?
And I said I would be happy to. BO’L: Yes. It’s very sad for me to see this develop.
So they scheduled it. They started posting things and advertising And, yes, you’re right, Kerry, that in 1970 I was an anti-Vietnam
the event. Then this one professor that I had worked for, who War protestor, and along with other people from Cornell and
later became director of JPL, apparently actively tried to suppress many places there were about 100,000 of us. When Cambodia
the entire gig. was invaded, we marched on Washington towards the White
House. A number of us that were leaders of this protest locked
And then it turned out that there was no record that I was even arms and tried to walk between a line of buses that was blocking
at… Caltech denied that I was deputy team leader, denied that I the White House from us.
was even at Caltech. [Kerry laughs] But it was so simple because
I’d published papers, well, in Science and other journals, and We were fully expecting to be handcuffed and arrested -- which
Caltech was the affiliation that was under my name. was fine, you know; it was an act of civil disobedience. Instead,
we were invited into the White House to express our outrage with
KC: And not only that, you had to have colleagues who some of Nixon’s advisors.
remember you, you know, who are still there even, I’m sure.
And then just after that, some of us… I think the interview with
BO’L: Exactly. Yes, absolutely. me was the lead story on CBS Evening News. It would have been,
and you can probably look it up, I think it was April 30, 1970.
KC: So it’s an amazing thing.
KC: And there was also a certain number of people that attended
BO’L: Amazing thing. They tried to erase it and I thought: Gee, that.
maybe I could find some paycheck stubs or something like that.
Because apparently I was wiped off the Caltech records that I BO’L: 100,000.
was even there -- even in their Administration -- because I tried
to follow that one up. KC: Which is amazing.
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BO’L: And by contrast, I joined a protest march onto the White BO’L: Yes. There are many people in the progressive
House in 2007. No… 2006. It was the fifth anniversary of 9/11 community. I would say Kucinich himself is in this category.
and there were a few, it was a motley crew of about 30 of us. He’s been on the fence. I was able to script for him an interview
[Kerry laughs] he had with NPR when he was running for president in 2004. I
was advising him on solution energy and trying to come up with
It was a beautiful day. It was September 11, 2006 and we the right words so that he could become all-inclusive about, you
marched to the White House. Some of my 9/11 Truther friends know, leaving no stone unturned in our quest for new energy
and I gave little speeches in front of the White House. sources.
And what I felt there was that Washington had changed, that it And so Kucinich did a little of that, but then he kind of
was no longer a place where there’d be any democratic discourse. retrenched some. There were a number of glitches that came up,
Instead, it was a locked shop. It was like people were robotically but he wanted to create some legislation that would provide
walking around, business as usual. funding for New Energy research and development, which is
what we really need. We need an Apollo Program for this. We
To me, 9/11 Truth is sort of like a metaphor for what’s going on need to bring people under one roof to research it.
now. There are other truths, too, of course, like solution energy
truth, truths that are being covered up, but it’s being covered up KC: Right.
also by people who are otherwise intelligent and free-thinking
and progressive. Those people aren’t there either. They’re buying BO’L: Or to somehow in other ways support the work. Well…
into the system. which is not happening now, of course. But there are other
people…
The system itself has become kind of locked up. And this is so
sad to me. The reason why I guess I have what you might call KC: But there are other thinkers that are very… movers and
some degree of courage, other people might cause it naivety or shakers in many ways, criticizing the current paradigm. They’re
foolishness, is that I sometimes think: It’s either the Earth or Me, very courageous in that way. And yet they won’t, they actually
or anybody else that wants to try to make a difference and bring won’t go outside the box, to a certain degree.
in the new paradigm.
BO’L: Exactly. They’re what Wade Frazier, a good friend, and I
Because I happen to think we can have a new paradigm, but we call structuralists. These are people like Noam Chomsky, Naomi
need to stand and be counted. We need to go to the White House, Klein, and they’re also the kind of people that won’t look at 9/11
bang pots. Truth, so there’s a pattern here. [Kerry laughs]
I mean, we had a change in the presidency of Ecuador, a very There’s a pattern of various things that become what David Ray
positive change, as a result of about a million people getting out Griffin calls sacred myths. One sacred myth is the official story
there in front of the presidential palace and banging pots until the of 9/11: It’s true, and it’s obviously true, and there’s no disputing
president left. That’s non-violent. It’s a method of changing. it.
And what’s happening now in the US is very scary because the Another sacred myth is that there’s no such thing as a free lunch
people in charge that are obviously pulling the strings of the when it comes to energy. So you have all of these
politicians, bribing them… and it’s so obvious, especially seen environmentalists that are just nay-saying even the possibility of
from here, to see the decline of the culture in just about every free energy, and this would be a number of notable people,
respect, whether it’s economic, ecological, peace vs. war… It’s people on the cutting edge of environmental policy. I’ve
locked up. It’s a closed shop. broached this to many famous well-known people. I’ll list a few.
There are a few courageous people around that I know, friends KC: Please do.
like Dennis Kucinich and, you know, some of the others, Cynthia
McKinney. I’ve done some work with Ralph Nader, although I BO’L: OK. Amory Lovens. Lester Brown, formerly of the
couldn’t convince him that solution energy was possible. There Worldwatch Institute. Amory just walked away from me when I
are a lot of people that do stand on the good side of the force, but broached it, and I’ve known him for years.
they’re very few and far between now.
KC: Are they afraid? You know, can you actually sort of drill
KC: Mm hm. down a little and tell us? Do you think that it’s… are they afraid?
Or is it something else? Is it the matrix, that they’ve actually
BO’L: And I want to be joined by people. I need support. I need bought into the matrix and that was it, they couldn’t get beyond
to team up with more and more people who feel as I do and are that? They’re certainly critics of the society, but they don’t, you
willing to stand and be counted. know…
KC: Well, can you talk… Just name a few names if you don’t BO’L: Yes. That’s an excellent question, Kerry, and I can’t
mind, of the people that are actually in more or less the second-guess their negative reaction because I’m not in their
alternative world but they’re not willing to actually embrace the skin, but it might be a blend of the two.
ideas of free energy, even UFOs? You know, the idea that there
might be black projects out there? I mean, because we had talked I know that it was politically correct and sort of de rigueur when
briefly, and I know that you talked about… Some of these people I was in the mainstream of science to nay-say and deny anything
are actually good friends of yours. that fell outside the box, and then I was accepted. So some of it’s
cultural, for sure.
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removed. And I can go through the list. Obviously you’ll be able

Somebody like Amory Lovens or Noam Chomsky or Naomi to post the list and their stories.
Klein, and there are many other names too. I can probably pop
for several more whose bias, or let’s say critique of the culture is KC: OK.
narrowly confined to certain areas. Now, on the other hand, I
have to grant them that maybe they just didn’t have time to look BO’L: And I’ve been able to authenticate many of these stories
at these other things… myself, personally, and they’re pretty much right-on.
KC: OK. [laughs] But they’re people like Tom Bearden. There’s a man called Gary
Vesperman, who’s accumulated many, many suppression stories
BO’L: …like the energy or 9/11 Truth. But on the other hand, of all kinds, for free energy.
maybe they are in the matrix. Maybe fear has so captivated them
that they’re in the box. There’s Wade Frazier and his excellent website ahealedplanet.net
in which he explores, in many hundreds of pages, many
KC: Well, don’t you have a story about “The Carrot and The suppression stories and some of his own experience with the
Stick”? I think that this would be a great opportunity to talk about inventor and promoter, Dennis Lee. And there are just so many
it. Because it may not be just fear but also the reward system that others.
they get, through ”normal society”, if you will.
You know, that’s one of the things I’ve said in my “Carrot and
BO’L: Well, yes. And I think that many people… and I’ve the Stick” story, is that there are a thousand ways to suppress an
broken free of it, but it took me a long time, and it took a lot of inventor or researcher. And there are also a thousand ways to
truth-seeking. eliminate them or threaten them. And there are…
But, yes, a lot of people… Yes. Yes, they basically realize that It’s also, we’re also vulnerable to forces because we have these
their careers could be ruined by this. I don’t think most of them bodies and these bodies are very vulnerable to any kind of attack
get to the point where there are threats, but yes, some people are or threat, and those of our loved ones.
offered very lucrative opportunities to “join the team” by The
Powers That Be, to come over to their side. And when that KC: Mm hm.
doesn’t happen, then often they’re whacked by the stick.
BO’L: So in a sense, The Powers That Be hold all the cards right
John Perkins talks about this in his books, the first one of which now, and most people are afraid to even venture into this
is the Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, that carrots are territory.
dangled. Like, it could come in the form of a World Bank loan, or
it could come in the form to buy you out, not to do the free And that, in part, is also a psychological phenomenon. There’s
energy invention. Or it could be being recruited to be part of their been some really good research done on this, that the pain center
team, and becoming privy to some information that you of the brain is hit as soon as you start to talk about anything that
otherwise couldn’t get. smacks of conspiracy theory (which, of course, is the dismissal
that’s really truth-seeking), that anything, any painful new truth
KC: Well, certainly funding for experimentation -- From the is going to reach the pain center of the brain first.
point of view of a scientist, that’s always the most seductive
thing, one would assume. Whereas, if you join the lynch mob, [laughs] if you join The
Powers That Be, then everything is pretty comfortable. The
BO’L: That’s right. And a lot of free energy inventors… pleasure center. You can have fun with life.
Now, for example, the Patent Office has a policy to nay-say KC: Mm hm.
anything that smacks of free energy. Or the Department of
Defense has the Secrecy Law which says that if this device has BO’L: So in a way, it’s “Me or the Earth”. [laughs] That’s the
any defense application -- [laughs] offense application -- then way it seems to be, and this dark agenda which is not really so
you’re going to have your device confiscated and you can never hidden now if people only take the time out and look at that.
work on it again.
But also look at the great promise and potential of solution
KC: Well, along those lines, let’s actually move along to free energy. It’s really a one-two punch in education that’s necessary.
energy. And I know you’ve done a tremendous amount of
investigation here, but you’ve also investigated the cover-up of But at the same time I have many wonderful dear friends,
free energy and the people that have maybe gotten to a certain progressive people, otherwise progressive, who still can’t get
point and then been, I don’t know, hit in one way or another, the their heads around the free energy question because they say:
device stolen. Well, you know, if you show it to me then I’ll believe it, but until
then it’s not worth looking at as a question.
Do you have some anecdotes along those lines and some people
that you can talk about who’ve done investigations? I know you KC: Well, George Green is a friend of yours and he’s been
traveled the world doing some… in one of your books talking working with John Bedini. And you know, George is one of those
about that. people who is certainly on the side of free energy and is certainly
aware of it. Have you seen a device, or have you seen John
BO’L: Well, yes. I mean, first of all, there are many inventors Bedini’s work? And what might you think of that? And so on.
who have been assassinated, threatened, had their funding
357
BO’L: Oh yes. I visited many laboratories and visited a lot of

people and I took photographs of them, but I’ve also investigated KC: Yes.
in great detail the concepts.
BO’L: He’d be a good one to interview. He’s a wonderful guy
[Showing pictures in his book]: Like, for example, this man is and he’s also done many experiments levitating objects and
Sparky Sweet, or Floyd Sweet. I visited him in the ’90s. He’s producing free energy.
passed over now. And this is a specially conditioned magnet that
he was showing. It produces free energy. KC: Yes. Some of his videos are on Google.
His laboratory was in an undisclosed location in the Mojave BO’L: Yes.

Desert. He had before been in LA and was broken into, his
laboratory was broken into. He was threatened. They were spying KC: We’ve seen some of them.
on him with infrared cameras. You know, all of this was well
documented. BO’L: This is Yull Brown, who was doing a demonstration of
“Brown’s gas” for me, which was, again, anomalous amounts of
This is Bruce DePalma, who invented the N-machine while he energy, just brilliant light, in his welding system.
was at MIT. And he was so suppressed by the Securities and
Exchange Commission when he tried to start his own company, And Tom Bearden. Moray King. These are leading theorists. So
he immigrated to Australia. They didn’t like it there, either, so he these are people that I visited over the course of about ten years
immigrated to New Zealand and died young of a heart attack, and have reported on.
about a decade ago.
This was a meeting of free energy researchers that was convened
This is some of Bruce’s apparatus. It’s an N-machine. It’s by a software billionaire in Estes Park, Colorado, in 1993 and
basically a magnetic motor, magnets that go up on a wheel that ’94, and there are a lot of...
are spun up and then they interact with a hypothesized zero-point
vacuum energy field and you get free energy. You get over-unity KC: And the software billionaire was? Could we name him?
power.
BO’L: Well, I think I’d rather not because…
This is Paramahamsa Tewari in India who had demonstrated a
version of the N-machine which is magnets on a motor, on a KC: OK.
wheel. Now, Tewari is a very prestigious physicist. He works for
the government of India. BO’L: My comments weren’t always positive but he convened
these people with the intention of trying to find out the best and
He was chief project engineer of their largest nuclear power brightest researchers and the best concepts to fund.
plant, but they also… the government of India gave him
laboratory space and funding to develop this machine which he KC: OK.
demonstrated to me, and which was lighting light bulbs with the
machine being unplugged. It was just free-running for 20, 30 BO’L: And then he suddenly did a reversal and said: No, I’m not
minutes. And the basic principles were very, very well presented going to fund any of this because my marketing people told me
to me, photographed. It’s there for everybody to see. that we were not dipping into the river of optimized profits.
[Kerry laughs]
This is Suji Inumata. He also passed over at a relatively young
age. He worked for the Tsukuba Space Center in Japan, also a In other words, when you’re in the toe of the profit curve…
Ph.D. physicist and president of the Japan Psychotronics We’re still at the Research phase of the Research-and-
Institute. And he had also one of these magnetic motors which Development cycle.
was spinning up and producing excess energy. And, again, he
died young. Most of all these people die young. So that’s what the government is supposed to be doing. The
Department of Energy is supposed to be funding these things.
This is John Hutchison, from Canada. And my god, they’re hardly even funding solar and wind!
They’re totally steeped in nuclear weapons, nuclear power, and
KC: Right. Well, we have had interactions with John and fossil fuel power.
actually we’d love to interview him at some point. Can you tell
us, you know, your take on his… But in this picture there are some people, really sad cases. This
was Stefan Marinov, who was Europe’s leading free energy
BO’L: Yes. John has personal psychic powers, but he’s also inventor and researcher. He was a professor of physics at the
brilliant with machines. So this is John and he actually was University of Graz in Austria. Jolly fellow, wonderful man, just
taking Meredith’s Camelot sword, and then he took this bar of positive and upbeat. And a few years ago, a few years after this
what he would call al-u-min-ium which was thoroughly trashed conference, he was seen jumping off the 10th story of the library
by one of his Tesla coils. And of course the US Department of building, to his death.
Defense immediately took an interest in this, for reasons other
than John. KC: Incredible.
John is a loving, gentle soul and he basically has demonstrated BO’L: Some people saw him going backwards. It looked like he
many times over how he can produce free energy just from was pushed off. And again, it’s just another one of these cases.
specially conditioned magnets.
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There are many other people in this picture who are no longer Then you have the environmentalists and I’ve talked with many
alive, but these were the leading free energy researchers from all leading environmentalists.
over the word. And Jim Carrey, who was filming Dumb and
Dumber, while we were trying to get smart and smarter. [laughs] Here’s another example: Hazel Henderson, a leading progressive
economist, doesn’t want free energy because she doesn’t want
KC: [laughs] Yes. Interesting. So... OK. Let’s go from here to millions of helicopters in the sky and bigger power saws.
what kind of solutions you’re advocating, or where you think we
can go for the future, just to sort of inspire all the people that are And I don’t blame her.
listening to this. Because truly you are a very inspiring man and,
you know, your courage, your willingness to think outside of the So that then forces the question: Well, this has to be managed.
box, and then in the face of all odds, to persist on this road. I We don’t want Dick Cheney running this one again. [laughs]
mean, you just released this new book. Right?
KC: Exactly. [laughs]
BO’L: Right. The Energy Solution Revolution.
BO’L: So the environmentalists are suppressing it. I don’t know
KC: Exactly. So what is it that your book is about? What are you of a mainstream environmentalist that’s even willing to give it a
advocating? And how can you encourage, or give us an moment of thought.
encouraging word, about the future, if you have one?
Al Gore. There’s another example of somebody who… I’ve
BO’L: Well, I think the bottom line of this… This is the book written letters to him. He doesn’t answer. So my battle is very
and I’ve been working on it for about 6 years. It’s kind of lonely. [laughter] And then… what else?
different essays, but they all come together because they first talk
about, well, just looking at the table of contents, that it’s being Well, there’s the corporation. The CEO of General Electric wrote
covered up at every turn. this editorial for the Washington Post saying that we need the
courage to change to new energy solutions. And then he mentions
KC: Mm hm. the conditions under which this has to happen.
BO’L: There is hardly anybody alive that’s NOT covering it up, One is the creative mind. He thinks yes, we have that. And then
either by commission or omission. the second one was: It must turn over a profit. And then the third
one was the American will. And he sees the third ingredient
Orwell one time said: The greatest lies are lies of omission. And lacking.
so a lot of people who are otherwise progressive and enlightened
and very bright just suppress it. I see the second ingredient as interfering, because General
Electric’s profits… and their shareholders depend on their
And so this book is a study of the breakthroughs and the making nuclear power plants and gas turbine plants.
suppression. Also the ecological mandate, the fact that the
problems with the Earth are far greater than you would be lead to If you were to have a free energy gizmo that could fit in the palm
believe in the media. of your hand, just like your dictaphone there, that could produce
10 kilowatts of power, which I fully believe can happen some
Then I talk about: Well, what is this tyranny and how can we day, General Electric is not going to want to develop it because it
overcome it? Well, we can certainly overcome it by education would take away from their business with gas turbine plants and
and by revamping our political systems. nuclear power plants.
Right now I think people are beginning to wake up to the fact that So, the condition to turn over a profit… I kind of argue: Well,
even Obama doesn’t really represent change. He’s great how much profit is enough? Clearly General Electric is not at all
rhetorically. interested in this. And, you know, the multi-national corporations
and the government have been suppressing these things anyway.
But all these people, and I would include in there a lot of people That’s obvious.
that are otherwise progressive that we have already talked about
plus many others, leaders of the environmental movement, for So this book is all about documenting the efforts not only to
example -- that the cover-up is fairly complete. And in a sense break through but to suppress it. And even in light of what so
it’s very similar to the UFO/ET phenomenon, to 9/11, anything many people say…
else where conventional wisdom denies it.
When is there a day when you don’t pick up a newspaper or hear
And so, I kind of pick this apart. I try to ask: Well, who’s doing some sort of thing on the media that: Al Gore says we need to do
the denying? Scientists are doing it. They are the guardians at the something about this soon. [Kerry laughs] We need to develop
gate. alternate energy. And then, when it comes to the question of
“what”, the question is evaded.
People who call themselves scientists are the number one
suppressors. And so they’re in unwitting alliance with the Black KC: Right.
Ops people because, you know, if the scientists won’t give it the
possibility, the yes-nod, then it probably won’t get anywhere. It’s BO’L: Or at the very least it’s lip service given to solar and
sort of like… Galileo’s colleagues refused to look through his wind, which is very capital-intensive, materials-intensive. It’s not
telescope. truly renewable. It’s intermittent. It’s diffuse.
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KC: Isn’t Obama also talking about, you know, going back into
coal? BO’L: Well, yes, there is something to be said there, and it
suggests to me that they’re part of the overall dark agenda.
BO’L: Yes.
KC: Right.
KC: I mean, we’re actually going backwards. Now the Black
Ops of course, we document here in Camelot, are thousands of BO’L: And it’s just their wrinkle on it is a little different. It’s a
years ahead and they’ve got free energy and they’re using it as little more benign-sounding.
we speak now. I think that you told us you wrote to Obama. Is
this correct? KC: Mm hm.
BO’L: Yes. Recently. And it’s on my website brianoleary.com. BO’L: One could just even be so risqué as to say that they
It’s right there on the home page. It’s an open appeal to Obama to advocate genocide by other means. I’m not really sure what’s
really represent the change we need and not just in rhetorical going on in their minds. All I know is that their lack of answers
means. and the lack of answers from the people they surround
themselves with and people that espouse the conventional
For that you’re going to have to bite the hand that fed you. wisdom…
You’re going to have to go against these very wealthy elite
people that are holding the puppet strings, including his strings. I mean, even James Lovelock in England. He thinks outside the
box, but he’s unbudgable. Amory Lovens. That’s another one
And we have to become educated about what the possibilities are. who thinks outside the box, but not enough. Now: What’s
And what’s happened is, as you say, he’s gone backwards. He’s happening?
talking about “clean” coal. [Kerry laughs] There’s no such thing!
That’s an oxymoron. Or about advanced nuclear. Or Now, these are also the kinds of people that show up at the so-
sequestration at coal power plants, which is not even feasible and called Green Salons in Washington, DC. It’s like the whole
it’s a gross technology. Beltway of Washington is a fortress and that it’s almost a sign of
prestige to interact with some of the folks at the DoD and CIA
So, he’s just far behind in the curve. And so I’m just making an because it might be your passport to… Something. [laughs]
appeal to him to say that, you know: Please for heaven’s sake,
our planet is being destroyed. Will you please serve the public And meanwhile outside the box there are all these wonderful
interest because the public interest is not being served with concepts waiting in the wings...
what’s happening.
KC: Right.
And even solar and wind, I hate to say, are half-measures because
the capital cost of a solar or wind economy is on the order of 20 BO’L: …that could really create a sustainable future for
to 40 trillions dollars. We don’t have that kind of money. humankind. And these people don’t listen. I mean, I’ve had some
access to Al Gore through intermediaries that know him and they
Free energy is basically free, once we’re able to develop the won’t budge. You know. I could name names there, too.
hardware to the point where it becomes available. And then of
course, all hell will break loose. It’s just that the conventional wisdom pervades the entire
progressive community. It’s like a big disease that’s affected
But, you know, the suppression effort… There’s two great quotes everybody. And then most people are simply apathetic or they
here. Let me see if I can find ’em. don’t know.
This is one: In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth Wade Frazier says: You have to peel the onion of free energy.
becomes a revolutionary act. – George Orwell. And what that means is a combination of a certain degree of
open-mindedness, intelligence, sentience, spiritual development,
KC: Yes. and on and on.
BO’L: And that’s what’s going on right now. We’re being KC: Right. In other words, it’s such a powerful theoretical
deceived. Big time. technology, or reality for those that are using it, its possibilities
are so grand, that you actually have to be on a certain level
Here’s another one: When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is spiritually to deal with that, as a planet. And I think that that’s
unsafe to be intelligent. – Isaac Asimov. also where we’re going and where we’re going to have to come
to terms.
KC: Yes. And there you go. That’s Dumb and Dumber and the
big rush to have movies emphasizing how funny, how lovely, it is BO’L: Absolutely.
to be stupid.
KC: Because as long as war and weapons is our god, so to speak,
So… OK. This has been really amazing, Brian, and I have to say on this planet, free energy is just not appropriate to be used by
that if ex-astronaut Brian O’Leary was writing to me, and I was those people.
the president, certainly it almost seems like to you need to write
back. Or to Al Gore. Right? And isn’t it surprising that, with your BO’L: You’re totally right. You’re totally right, Kerry.
stature, that these men would actually ignore you? There’s
something to be said there, as well.
360
KC: So we need a totally different set of leaders, a different set We just completed a conference here that you organized and it
of thinking. Right? was very inspiring. I think a lot of people really enjoyed it. We
hope to do more of them. And certainly, again, here you are on
BO’L: Absolutely. the avant garde of actually getting the word out, not only about
free energy but about, you know, what’s been going on, the
KC: And in many ways you’re right on the avant garde of that cover-up, and the potential for the future that is there for all of us
effort. And I do believe you have many people behind you. if we just take hold.
BO’L: Well, that’s good, Kerry, and they’re now kind of divided BO’L: Yes. We’re starting here, Kerry, an alternative
and ruled. And of course part of your effort and your search for educational and conference center. It’s called Montesuenos. It’s
the Holy Grail, which this is a part of, a significant part of, could in the Andes of Ecuador. My wife, Meredith, and I have been
create more strength in numbers of people willing to stand and be spending the last five years creating it and now blessed by your
counted for proposing these alternatives. presence and the conference that we just had. We expect to have
many more. And we invite kindred spirits. And whistleblowers!
Because I, too, would be actually opposed to the development of [laughter]
free energy if The Powers That Be continue to be in power,
because they would abuse it. KC: Absolutely. The more truth-tellers, the better.
KC: Right. BO’L: Yes! And that’s such an important thing. Your work is
very important. Somebody had to do the work. Steve Greer has
BO’L: They would misuse it. They would… just like in the ET done a piece of it and is doing a piece of it. And together we can
phenomenon, back-engineering and so forth, they’d keep it in the then enlighten ourselves and the public about, first of all, the
Black [Ops] and use it for their own purposes. nasty truth, and then the potential truth of what could be in a
better world. And then together create that world. There’s no
So the people of the Earth need to know about this more. reason why we can’t do that.
There are some hopeful signs here. One of them is the country of KC: Absolutely. Thank you very much, Brian. Yes. I think we
Ecuador, whose president is a great deal more enlightened than covered it all.
prior presidents, and whose government just passed a new
constitution which provides for the Rights of Nature -- and whose BO’L: One thing, though, I’ve never been in Black Ops and I’ve
president has offered that if the world community were to attract never been privy to it, even as an astronaut.
matching funding, that oil under the ground in a very pristine bio-
diverse national park would stay in the ground, if the funds could KC: Yes.
be raised enough.
BO’L: So, it’s funny because I know most of the people you
And so, you see, the whole thing is systemic. The whole world interview have been there. And that’s a whole different order of
system is decadent and disgustingly… I just… You name the things.
negative word. Evil, I guess, is the right word for it.
KC: Right.
More and more people are realizing that, but maybe what they
don’t realize is that we can make a difference. We can create BO’L: I kind of come on naively.
another agenda, together.
KC: Right. But you skirted it. You’ve been affected by them.
I don’t talk much about alternative agenda to the Black Ops or They see you as a threat and in some ways that’s just as good,
Illuminati agenda, but believe me, it’s a lot more pleasant. [Kerry from Camelot’s point of view. You know, you definitely qualify,
laughs] if you will, [Brian laughs] for better or for worse.
I don’t even want to prejudice the question: Well, what is that I think that the wonderful thing about your life is that you’ve
agenda? Well, I can see a world that’s truly sustainable, a world actually lived through all these experiences as an astronaut.
in which our knowledge expands to embrace the ET Right? So, as a person of respect, that garners respect, and a
phenomenon, a world where magic, what we consider as magic, person who people could rally around, at the same time you’re
can now really happen. A world where combined positive willing to have such an open mind and consider everything. And
intention can heal ourselves and the environment. that’s such a rare thing to get in a person of respect nowadays,
I’m sorry to say.
KC: Absolutely.
BO’L: Yes. And in my case I guess I just had to check it out as I
BO’L: And where consciousness, which is really the science of went along and my gestation of many of these things took a
the 21st century, can burst forward in very dramatic counterpoint LONG time. So now I’m hoping for others in the lay public and
to what now is happening. just people, curious people…
KC: OK. Well, thank you Brian. That’s wonderful. And more The kind of people that came to the conference were just fine
power to you! It’s been really educational for Bill and I to be people that want to get educated more about these things, and
here. We want to thank you for being our host and Meredith, a who may not… we may not… have as much luxury of time as I
lovely hostess, and for opening your home to us. had when I was going through my process of decompression
361
from the mainstream. It’s been 30 years so far, and that process And that’s what you need. We’re going to have the power of
continues to this very moment. numbers. That’s what we want.
BR: I guess we could say that you’re in Green Ops. BO’L: Yes.
BO’L: Green Ops. Yes. [laughs] That’s great. Green Ops. You KC: And I believe we’re going to have it and it’s already out
know, we ought to have an Earth Corps. We ought to have a there.
“New Deal” [that] Obama could lead that would get people out to
clean up the Earth. And have solution energy research and BO’L: Right. It’s already out there.
development. And consciousness research and make it OK to do
those things. Why not? KC: It’s a matter of focusing.
KC: Yes. Absolutely. Why not? BO’L: And also then, the personal. It’s both. It’s the Earth and
then some of us in pioneering work. Personally we’re safer
BO’L: Yes. But it has to have public support. You can’t do it because then our work outlives us and there’s no reason to…
without the public. History has shown that throughout.
KC: And safety in numbers. Right?
KC: Well, that’s what doing this video is going to do. That’s the
whole point of doing things like this. I mean, your book coming BO’L: Safety in numbers. Yes. I think so. I’m optimistic that this
out, and hopefully the video coming out very shortly, it’s the kind can happen, that we really do have a positive future. And that’s
of thing that’s going to start the movement and gather the people. why I’m on this planet. That’s why I’m alive, is to express that
vision.
Vilcabamba, Ecuador
362
Project Camelot:
George Green - January 2009 Ecuador Conference
Presentation Transcript
Vilcabamba, January, 2009
[a few moments of silence]
OK. That’s good. Now, I had somebody come up and say: What
do I do for exercising? So I’m going to give you all an exercise
that you need to learn, especially the people over age 50.
Voices (Vs): George, can you hold the mic closer?
G: Hold the mic closer? Is this better?
Voices: Yes.
G: Anyway, for all you people who need to exercise, and

George Green & Dr. Brian O’Leary everybody needs to exercise a little bit, especially the people over
age 50 because you’ve kinda slowed down. What I want you to
Presentation do... this is an easy exercise, it won’t be too hard. You know
these five-pound potato sacks?
Brian O’Leary (BO'L): The next session of this conference and
the theme of today is Crisis and Opportunity. And I can’t think of What you want to do is get two five-pound potato sacks. Hold
a more knowledgeable person, a unique person on the planet, to ’em out for about at least one minute. [audience laughter]
address those two questions, than George Green, whom I’ve
known for about 20 years, I guess? We’ve been in …. G: Well, wait a minute. That’s one minute a day, and you can do
that for about a week. Then we’re gonna graduate. We’re gonna
George Green (G): Yeah. I guess that’s about it. go up to the ten-pound ones. Then we’re gonna do the ten-pound
ones for about two weeks. Is that OK? You can hold ’em out and
BO'L: ...the same business and… This guy’s amazing. I just, you you can kind of expand at that time, ’cause you’ll get really used
know, I can’t even describe. He used to be a Lapis Pig. [audience to it. After about a month, you’re ready to go to the 25-pound
laughter] And he surely is not now. But he’s a very smart man. bag.
He has a background in finance, economics. It just goes on and
on, his list of credentials. At the end of the 25-pound bag... You start doing that for about 3
weeks or so. Then put a potato in it. [audience laughter and
And more recently, it’s just an extraordinary blend because he applause]
has his finger in the pie of the economic situation, his finger in
the pie of the political situation. He’s incredibly active, travels a G: That seems to liven up the day! [continuing laughter]
lot, you know. He just appeared, ah, kind of like, that’s what he
does, he makes an appearance. The basis of my program, or sharing with you, because as you
know, I travel around the world, and people are asking me what’s
And he also has published -- through his contacts that he’s had going on. And since, like he said, I ran around with the so-called
through the years, and being able to open himself up to certain Lapis Pigs...
energies that have very benevolent advice for humanity in what
we are to do. The truth is, they’re not any different than you and I, with the
exception of some of the clones. And I won’t go into the cloning
So the books that George has produced: Handbook for the New procedures because that always ends up with people getting
Paradigm -- it’s sold a lot; Becoming -- that’s I think my favorite killed and we don’t need to talk about that. But it’s a very simple
of the four; Embracing the Rainbow, and Messages for the procedure and we’ve been doing that since ’39, to give you an
Ground Crew, which is his most recent one. idea.
So, George, you’re on! The situation we’re in: I’m going to give you some overviews. I
think Brian said it the first time, that you guys all came here by
G: Thank you. Before I go – because of the energies and the an airplane.
stuff I’m going to be talking to, I want to get all the dark
energies. So, just kind of close your eyes for a second and Let me give you some ideas of what we’re doing to the planet.
demand that all dark energies leave our space. This is just a rough idea. If you get a jet and you just flew in from
London? It takes about 6,000 pounds of fuel to fly the airplane
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over here. And they’re all flying between 30,000 and 36,000 feet.
Right? Six thousand pounds [of fuel]. If you go to Mexico City today, they don’t know the population,
but it’s between 25 and 30 million, mas o menos. [Spanish: more
Do you think in your own mind, that that’s all being burnt? Well, or less] Right? Half of the population of Mexico City doesn’t
it’s going up in the atmosphere between 30,000 and 36,000 feet, have sewage, water, or electricity. Am I right?
about half of it. Now remember, 6,000 pounds of fuel. That’s a
lot in gallons. Ask the pilot next time how many gallons that is Voices: Right. Mm hm.
that we’re using up of oil. Well, let me come back to the next
thing. G: And you have a dividing line. It’s between those that have
and that don’t have. It’s like going to Rio. You go down to Rio –
In the United States right now, every hour, we have 5,000 I’ve been down there on the beach. You sit down and you go one
airplanes in the air. Around the planet, we have over 25,000. So, block over and all of a sudden, the same problem, because of the
when you fly around the planet, and some of you people have, do economic system of the world.
you ever look at the sky itself and see the haze? Now, that’s
between 30,000 and 36,000 feet and it’s fairly heavy and it’s Now, when I was... ah... they come after me originally because I
starting to come down on the planet. Now we have another was selling money. Probably a lot of you are aware that is my
problem. thing... Ah... The state decided that they had to do something.
Well, it wasn’t the state, it was the Federal Reserve that notified
Brian’s not up to date because things are happening so fast. He’s the state to get me licensed.
telling me we’ve got 6 billion people on the planet. The truth is,
there’s approximately 6.8 billion people on the planet. We’re And of course, I’m arguing with the state: The first thing we have
increasing the planet’s population by 300,000 a day, or 3 million to do is determine, what the hell’s money? Does anybody know?
every ten days. They don’t have a definition for it! I defy you to find a definition
in the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund. Did you
So if you can imagine, in 10 days you have 3 million people and know that? There is no definition of money!
they’re all coming down to Vilcabamba. [laughter] I don’t think
so, because most people will not go within a 10-mile area of They have a little paragraph that says that it’s a commodity,
where they live. basically, that we use to keep track of the exchange of goods and
services. Right?
Most people have about a half a tank of gas in their car. Right?
Which allows them to go about 100 miles. We also had an Well, the inner group that controls all of the world’s money is out
interesting game to keep track of this function of traveling around of Switzerland, the Bank of International Settlements. Now, these
the world and moving things right now, using an enormous 13 families determine what money is really worth because they
amount of energy. exchange it between countries. Right now we have a problem in
the United States.
Now, believe it or not, there’s all kinds of free energy on the
planet. Most of it’s very expensive and the real problem is the There’s an old saying that’s out here right now: Figures don’t lie.
portability of it. How do we take it so we can travel, or transfer or Liars figure. [laughter]
go to places?
The accounting network is kinda like the law profession. You
Now, how much energy is used in this house? Look around you. know, they practice law. Right? Practice law. It’s like medical
Is that compared to where it is in the States, for instance? How doctors -- they practice medicine.
much more do you use? Well, this gives you a...
It’s the same thing with all of the... ah... I found out that the more
We’re here in Ecuador. And I’m going to come down to Ecuador licenses I got -- and I don’t want to tell them -- they were licenses
in a little bit because it’s right at the Equator. to steal. What we’re doing is taking all of these other people and
saying: Well, I’m a professional. You follow me. I know what’s
How many of you have been on cruise ships? If you noticed, if right and what’s wrong. But each one of us independently,
you go in the middle of the cruise ship, there’s very little individually, know what’s right and wrong.
movement back and forth.
That’s the process that they left out. The leaving out of individual
Well, we’re on planet Earth. It’s getting ready to do a lot of responsibility: Let somebody else do it for me because I can go
movement back and forth. Over the next three to four years, back to sleep and go on.
we’re gonna have amazing geophysical changes, earthquakes,
movement. That was planned a long time ago. In order to keep everybody
happy, we’ll provide you with entertainment, make sure that
I’ve been advised from other sources that you should be above you’re focused on the Super Bowl, make sure you’re focused on
1,100 feet. I don’t care where you are, just for pure safety. And what’s going on in Hollywood – anything in the world [to distract
stay away from the coastline. you] as they’re getting ready for the end of the world.
I mean this has been a long time ago, as you are well aware, that Now, to bring you up to date: The Plan 2000’s behind schedule,
they were aware of the population problem, well, with 6.8 billion for the people that are aware of the Plan 2000. I sat in on the
people on the planet. And it’s so severe, the politics of the game - meetings. It calls for the planned reduction of the world’s
- and, Brian, you know politics is two words? Poli means many, population. You know, you hear a lot of figures -- a couple
and ticks are blood-suckers. Right? [laughter]
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billion. A couple billion is because 40% of the world is today

existing on less than $2 a day. Voices: No.
The other problem is, there’s no water left. Water’s the most G: Well, the money system is so unwise that they’re all using
critical thing we have on the planet. It’s the most valuable thing what they call “derivatives,” and derivatives are what? They can’t
on the planet. So most of the water’s being polluted because they even tell you what they are. And so they tell you: We’ve got these
don’t take care of it. derivatives covered.
Half of the population of the United States is on septic. Did you Right now, how dumb it is, in the last 6 months or the last year,
know that? And most of the septic is not treated. We have real how much did the United States give to the banks for rescuing the
easy ways of using enzymes in the septic system which go down housing? Anybody have any ideas?
and break down all the fecal matter and have clear water coming
out. Instead, it’s going into the streams, and the ground water’s Voice: Eight and a half trillion.
now all being polluted.
G: Did you know that the money that was actually put out into
Meanwhile, they’re using all the [pesticides], and all the the market, half of the houses -- no, they’ve put money out there -
problems they have, to get rid of the so-called bugs that were - that half of the houses that they put the re-loans on are back into
actually helping us. The bees are dying, the flies are going. foreclosure. Did you know that?
Everything is happening to ya, within the whole system. But it’s
not just us. It’s the entire planet. Voice: No.
I’ve been, I guess, “blessed” with being able to run around with G: How are we gonna be able to sustain something? Because we
the three-letter agencies – the CIA, that’s Crooks In Action. have to have jobs. Meanwhile, the United States is really good. I
[laughter] talked to a Boeing representative the other day. He said: All we
do is assemble our parts. We get a hundred thousand parts from
I don’t know if anybody’s CIA. If there’s some CIA people, I all parts of the world.
don’t care if they’re here tonight. They’re professional liars. It’s
the truth! All of ’em. Look at Bush. He’s a professional liar. He So, what the game is, it’s all coming apart everywhere. And the
was CIA. Right? They actually think that they’re running the other day I was with some friends who import goods from China
world. It’s all a game. and the Chinese companies over there say: We’ll be glad to ship
’em to you, now, but pay us in any other currency besides the
And the FBI? They look at them... There was a joke when I was dollar.
with the CIA. They said: The FBI, they’re 60 percenters. I said:
What do you mean, sixty percenters? They said: You know, when Now, what is that telling ya? The dollar this last two weeks has
we take the exam? They only get 60% on their grades. done what? Sunk down to zero percent interest. Now, what is the
dollar? It’s money. And what’s money? So we kind of have this
The FBI, you know what that is? The Federal Bureau of big Monopoly game. Somebody else owns the Deed, you guys.
Investigation? They have no authority to do anything. Did you
know that? They can’t arrest ya. They can’t do anything. Did you I mean, I’ve done all these crazy things. After I found out what
know that? was going on with the Federal Reserve, I started my own bank
outside the Federal Reserve. I couldn’t make any money at it,
Voice: No. frankly, because I didn’t have the franchise to create money out
of thin air.
G: They have to bring in the local sheriff to do the arresting. It’s
a whole game. It’s intimidation. Voices: Exactly. Right. [laughter]
Well, right now we’re in a position, knowing what’s going on G: The Federal Reserve does it every day. The bank, if you join
with the planet, and I have it. You know, you can get all the the syndication called the Federal Reserve -- because you have
information you need to at the World Watch Institute out of Federal Reserve banks and everything -- they’re allowed to create
Washington, DC, or that type of [thing]. They’re being funded by it. But the bank I started, and I was authorized to do it, but we
all the think-tanks. They’re trying to keep up with what’s going had to use dollars because we’re part of the system, aren’t we?
on.
It’s kind of like Ecuador right now. The Ecuadorian president,
I’m not going to go into too many more details, because you guys bless his heart... By the way I went to the University of Illinois
can do that. What I’m interested in is solutions right now. too, the same place where the president did. He studied finance
and I studied law and business. So we, you know. But mine was
Voice: Mm hm. 30 years before him. [laughs] He’s 43 years old, isn’t he?
G: Where can you go? Because the whole thing is going to Voice: Yes.
collapse. There isn’t anybody coming out. They’re talking right
now about basically shutting down the banking system in the G: He has the right ideas. I’m trying to have a meeting with him
United States because of all of the derivatives, all the other things to have him to try to move some of the currency out of Ecuador
that are occurring. China’s got, you know, about 150-trillion so it has some kind of gold backing. We’re working on some of
dollars in debt. This is all in the last year. It’s increased. Did you these things. That’ll give you some currency that you can feel
know that? good...
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Well, the change that’s gonna happen is a total collapse of the

Historically on the planet, historically, I mean thousands of years, system as we know it in the United States. There’s going to be a
they’ve always used gold and silver. Whether or not that’s going banking holiday.
to be good or not, who the hell knows? But for the temporary
period right now, it’s the only thing that we know. I call it a What can you do? It’s going to be a challenge to keep ahead
“storage of wealth”. So you can move it into there. because we’ve never lived through this situation before.
I don’t care what they do with the game because the whole Now, my guidance: Somebody asked me the question about the
world’s currencies are collapsing right now. Putin told the world handbooks and where it was. Yes, I got involved with the
– Putin, that’s some guy over there in what do you call that? Plejarans or the Pleiadians at first, when I was living with Billy
Russia? Meier.
He told all of the Russians that have dollars to move ’em into When I was with Billy, questions were asked from them, of the
gold because the United States will be in a massive depression by extraterrestrials. I says, you know: Who’s above you? They said
the end of this year. This is public knowledge. Did you see the they’re in constant communion with Spirit. That was their
papers? answer.
I was a securities underwriter in the game of stocks. And they Well, my agreement was to assist in getting the information out,
always tell you to put your money into a piece of paper. All subject to some legal things with Billy.
you’re doing is trading against each other. It has nothing to do
with the company. Once I issue the stock, you give the company Well, when I was in Vegas, ya’ll know that story. When I got
its money, then it’s trading between you guys. down there, I was asked to build an enemy prisoner of war camp
in downtown Las Vegas, right on I-15. An enemy prisoner of war
Right now, 60% of all stocks are held by what? The pension camp. I put a copy of the contract in one of my books, Chaos in
funds and mutual funds, which don’t have any voting rights. And America, so you could see what was happening. It was built, by
what have they told you? Forty percent of that money’s gone. the way. I didn’t build it.
They’ve also said all of the endowments that were in all the
universities, Yale and all the rest of ’em, they were all into stocks Within another week or two I got another book and in it, the ET...
and they’re all the way down, so they can’t provide any we’d done it before but I reassembled it... and it was called The
“education”. Spiritual Laws. That was basically connected with some of the
other entities on another level within our books.
In the United States last year, and this was Hillsdale College
information, there were 6,000 PhDs in the United States that Then all of a sudden, I got notification - at that point it was
graduated in engineering. Their calculation is that 90% of the telepathically. They said: Hey! They reminded me of my
world’s engineers will be Oriental, living in the Orient. agreement that I had in Switzerland, but they said: We could not
transmit the information clearly because there’s so much
Meanwhile, the United States has really done a good job of negative energy in Las Vegas.
making people hate us. The United States is becoming the most
hated country in the world. So, I had to, you know, get out of Dodge, if you want to go
ahead. When I made the agreement in Switzerland with them, I
Meanwhile, the Global 2000 agenda is what? It’s to get a war said: I’m gonna go ahead and do this.
started in the Middle East which, if you ask me about timing, it
could be – what time is it? You know, when I came back to LA -- we were talking about this
before, to get this thing squared away with Billy -- my attorneys
Voices: Mm hm. over there thought I was a nut. But I said: Hey, you’ve got my
word. If my word’s no good, nothing is. I mean, you don’t sign
G: My feelings are, things could go out of hand right now contracts with extraterrestrials, do ya? You ARE one! You
because of Hamas, and what’s happening over there, which is a know? [laughs]
duly elected leadership, supposedly. But they’re all setting up on
it. Anyway, when I got involved with this thing, all of a sudden I’m
receiving the information, I looked around for a place that I
But because the United States is reaching a precipice where the considered safe, knowing what’s planned for us.
dollar is worthless and all the money that they’ve been
advancing, all these billions, this created money out of thin air, And I looked at Four Corners in Colorado. I like the west better
which the obligation… than I do the east part of the United States. So I looked at the
Four Corners area and I looked...
We’re all on -- get this – 90-day Notes. They’re not ten years
from now -- in 90 days they’re due. When was that? Did you Anyway, I ended up in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho because they had
notice everything, what happened to Bush? They moved plenty of water. Close to the Canadian border in case I needed to
everything up into Obama’s campaign. get out of Dodge, you know, that kind of thing. I ended up doing
that. When I got up there, then all of a sudden I started receiving
Voices: Right. Mm hm. the information.
G: So what has he inherited? He doesn’t know what’s coming Now, the source of the information, and this is very humbling to
down. I mean, he can tell me he’s gonna come out for change. me, is at the Creational level, not only of this universe but others.
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We are so out of balance on this planet with negative energies

that we’re affecting our neighbors. This thought is permeating The Law of Attraction -- what you put out, you’re gonna get
through the whole universe since we are all part of the thought of back. What is your thought? The Law of Attention is the second
the Creation - all of us. law. What did you intend for your thought? Well, our training
since kids was all of the education that the bad guys gave us and
Anyway, then there was the agreement. How can you do that it’s probably 100% wrong. But we believed it. Right? Belief
when the creation to do it identified even the author? Because the systems. Right? Belief Systems. What’s the first letter of those
history of the planet -- we’re looking for somebody to save us, so two words?
we deify or crucify the messenger.
Voice: “BS.”
I’m not that. I’m the publisher for the information given to me
from them, the ETs. OK? [laughter] I admit to being in contact. I G: You got it. And another word, Brian, when he used the word
didn’t write that stuff. In fact, I joked with ’em. I says: If I’m ego? You know what ego really stands for? Edging God Out.
gonna do this... Do you know why that’s on the back page? They [laughter] And what is the god? The god within. Because you’re
did it! I put it together. all powerful. We’re all of us, we’re all powerful. Together we
just have to... we’re all here for an understanding to wake up on
When I first agreed to do this it was like sitting with you guys, how to have a solution and get prepared for what’s coming down.
only there was only like ten of us. They were extraterrestrials,
physical just like you and I. I said: The book has to be less than I’m glad that you came down here at this point, so we at least
200 pages because people don’t read any farther than that. And start the action. The starting is: How do we set up community
they want to put it in their pocket, so you can put it in your pocket within communities?
and read it any time you want to. These are all the conditions.
I picked Ecuador from running around the world at this point
Guess what? That’s exactly the way they gave it down. So all of a because politically it’s more stable. Even though the President
sudden, they’re going right along and then finally, we got through doesn’t know everything, he knows enough that he wants to
the last books and they come up with a message: That’s the protect his people. We’re happy about that.
mental reassortment. 23:49 And that’s the end of the messages.
Ecuador is pretty much middle class for the most part, if you look
I still get information, but they say that basically there’s enough at it, compared to a lot of it. And they’re so friendly. They’re
there to trigger those people to be awakened at the proper time in willing to help you out.
the future.
Ninety percent of the world’s plants are over here. Did you know
Now, you may not totally understand them at this point. All that’s that? 90% - somewhere. Ecuador is the largest exporter of roses.
done now is, like, what we’re looking at is triggering the You go to any place in the United States and get roses and they
computer, the computer within, on the Soul. That’s all we are. came from Ecuador. All the florists. Am I right?
This Rent-a-Wreck [laughter] has the information in there now They have a lot of other possibilities here because the things that
on the Soul level because it knows everything, too, to start are available for us to keep within our community and within the
triggering the body to be receptive to the creation as the creation country itself and other items to export while we can.
is looking at this experiment, if you want to call it, to give us the
answers and the solutions which will be coming down for the Now, how quick is this coming down? Frankly I think they’re
survival of a number of the people on the planet, which requires gonna begin World War III by the second quarter of this year.
then – what? Now, this is all planet stuff. The information that they’re
observing and telling me, ’cause they’re monitoring what’s going
The responsibility of you to understand the situation. The on right now between us, but they’re also doing the entire planet.
responsibility of you to challenge the information that I put out, They’re expecting that the war that’s gonna get started, which
to find that out for yourself. And then ask for guidance yourself will go on in the Middle East as planned by the guys for
because when you read these books, you’re gonna start thinking population reduction, will last for about four years, a little over
different. four years, I think.
How many of you have been reading these books and thinking The exact timing or day it’s gonna happen, I don’t know, but it’s
different? Yes, it’s amazing, isn’t it? You’re not the same person. coming up pretty fast. I try to keep ahead of all this stuff with all
We can’t go back, either. my people.
Unfortunately, once you wake up to this whole game of life that I couldn’t believe it that two days ago I was asked to help convert
we have right now, the unfortunate problem is that the whole a government bond for Venezuela. Now, it was seven billion
world’s coming down. And out of the chaos – there’s going to be dollars. You have it, like we issue US Bonds? You know, you
enormous chaos – we’re going to have to work together to can buy the $100 bond where they tried to give ’em away?
basically facilitate other people who will be coming to you for
the information, to create something new. Let me give you some simple things to look at. They asked me to
do this. So I said... Seven million dollars. How do you convert a
We will be assisted to get all the free energy when we come into bond? You go to your local bank. Right? Well, they don’t have
spiritual balance. Now, when Brian was talking a little back, if any money either.
you go back to the four laws of the universe, that’s exactly what
he’s talking about.
367
So I called my friends who had the money and I says: I’ve got all the real property in the United States to them and all the
this bond. And they said: Well, bring it on to the Board. I said: industry.
Well, they told me they’d advance $500-million on it instantly.
Five hundred million. Can you even imagine? So now what do we have? It’s a position now: Where do I go
where I can live with very little energy? Your house. Right?
Yesterday when I come down here I got word their Board That’s it. We can grow food. Our neighbors’ll…
decided not to do it because of the political nature -- not a
question, was the bond bad -- the whole country of Venezuela I’m going around the world to try to set up sustainability and
guaranteed the bond. So what do you do? work on the energy and ask for assistance from other levels in
order to come down to assist the planet that’s gonna be left.
Now, in the United States, they’re trying to convince you to go Because they’re gonna go ahead with their plan. Obviously, when
buy student bonds and everything else. you travel around the world, too many people don’t have enough
money to live. You see too many. And it shouldn’t be that way.
How many people in here know the banker’s “Rule of 72”? Now,
I’m a banker first of all. Just to give you an idea, I’m gonna tell Yesterday when I was in Quito, I was with a friend of mine who
you what the problems are. got a check from the church. We went over to the bank. They
were going to cash it. They couldn’t even cash the church’s check
As a banker, you always look at what they call returns. I’m going because there wasn’t enough money in the account.
to give you the flat rule. We call it “the pig end of the world”.
Whatever interest rate that you get, i.e., you divide the interest There’s so much lack of circulation of everything right now and
rate that you get into 72 and that will tell you how long it takes to because of what’s going on in the automobile business -- I
double your money. brought it with me. I’ll show you later. I was just in Reno and in
San Jose. I did a deal. Chrysler-Deimler is out there offering
So if you put money at work at 7% into an investment and they Chryslers, brand new Chryslers, at 50% off. Did you see the ad?
promised you a 7% return, it’ll double in ten years. So if I got a
10% return, it’ll double in seven. And this is the other thing I’ve noticed… of course I’ve been
saying this for some time. Why are all the companies at the end
Well, I was involved with a lot of underwriting on pension funds. of the year over Christmas giving away product? Their products –
Pension funds in the United States, are required… The figure they were giving them away at less than what it cost them. You
they calculated was an 8.3% return. Well, how do you invest know why?
something at 8.3% when General Motors only makes – if they
were making money -- were doing about 1% or 2%. Right? And Because like when K-Mart merged with Sears, they were both in
now all the corporation bosses are stealing all the money bankruptcy. They got all the derivative money and they have to
anyways, so there’s nothing like that. pay the interest on it. And the interest is all due this month. They
didn’t get enough sales on things so they gave away merchandise
So what’s happening is that… The point that they left out. When that they got and they still owe money to the people who are the
I sat in with State, I said: We’ve gotta change this, I said, the suppliers of their merchandise.
rules. Because it isn’t a question of either backing or doubling
your money; but because inflation is going at least 7%, what’s Meanwhile, Wal-Mart is real interesting because… this is also an
your money worth in ten years? Zippo. interesting fact for you. I use the word interesting a lot, but... It’s
interesting that the Wal-Mart people have the largest computers
And if you bought a life insurance plan, like New York Life or in the world keeping track of commerce. Did you know that?
Equitable, and all that which they tell you to buy and start
annuities, they can give a 2.5% return when held to maturity. In They’re the largest supplier, they know exactly what you’re
other words, it builds up, accumulation at the cash end, and the gonna need, exactly what you’re gonna do. And they have all
maturity date of a life insurance plan is age 96. [laughter] these computer things. And their computer is down, of course, in
Arkansas and it’s three stories above ground. What you don’t
And as you keep putting money into the plan, they keep giving know is there’s two stories underneath their network, totally
you less and less insurance because it’s a combination of the cash underneath, which is the backup for the United States military.
that you have in the policy, plus the equity on top. Am I
explaining this to you? Voices: [comments] Really!
Voice: Term insurance. G: To keep track of everybody. So when you get all the new
merchandise that you get, it’ll have a little chip in it which is all
G: So all there is is term insurance. So then I started analyzing run down by who? Which is also run down and controlled by?
the actuary tables on the term insurance, the life insurance Who’s the backup on it? Do you understand what’s happening?
expectancy, and that’s all they buy. So the insurance companies
are in business to make money. They don’t even have to have So we’re gonna be set down and mobilized… And I talked to
reserves for two years. Did you know that? It’s such a game. And some people about this. I said: My gosh, you’re really set for
now we’ve got the government setting down here… You hear doing the mobilization.
about AIG which covers a lot of stuff on it? The government just
bailed ’em all out. And people are gonna stand in line to go get their new card when
they shut the banks down, which is planned. And that could
So what has happened, you’ve got the government, which is happen any time now, I would think, after Obama gets in,
supposedly all the peoples’ assets, which they don’t know, is like frankly, after the first 90 days, because when they do that… The
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economy’s just the distribution of money. So then there’s gonna I had some friends who were involved with the militia
be a bank holiday for a while. movement, which is constitutional, but nobody’s gonna do
anything. Because why? Half of the population of the United
So we have this little window. And I’ll know more about that in States is over 50. Did you know that? Half!
the next week or two because my guys, for instance in Panama –
which… That’s all they deal with is money. They’re holding One out of three people in the United States work for the
everything in dollars at this minute. Switzerland won’t take the government. What do they make? One out of three people work
dollars anymore. for companies that contract back to the government.
I mean, what do you do with a currency that’s worthless? What So I’m keeping it down to what I call the narrow workforce.
do you do with a country that’s bankrupt and lies? And yet we’re Legitimately we’re in a problem where you and I could create
willing to go ahead and drop nuclear bombs on somebody else. something someplace else that will make sense based on
We’re the only country that’s got nuclear bombs. Think about it. basically global trading, if you want to look at it, or trade with a
neighbor. Because that’s what we’re gonna have to go back to. It
Voices: [comments] Israel or Syria? isn’t the money in your pocket.
G: Well the Syrian thing, when they dropped the two… They’re And now they have this new… You’re all seen the new dollar
using bunker buster bombs right now. That’s what they did. But that the United States has put out, haven’t you? The new one?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, where did those bombs come from? Do The coin?
you know?
Voice: The little coin?
Voice: Hitler?
G: I have some with me. They make ’em down here too. They
G: That’s right. The answer was Hitler. The Germans already print ’em. The Euros are OK except for Germany just announced
had it. In fact, at the end of World War II, we took the nuclear that they’re not gonna take the Euros that are coming from Spain
submarine right out of the chute. I have documents that Germany or France, and Italy -- I guess it’s Spain and Italy -- because they
was selling enriched uranium to the Japanese in 1938. So you don’t think their money’s any good anymore.
don’t know all of the things that are going on behind the scenes.
Voice: Greece also.
This is just kind of an overview. We’re in a big world mess.
There is abundant free energy. But the trouble is affordability. I G: And Greece also. Well that means, hey, you can go ahead and
was talking to a couple of people that are putting a new device print a Euro, they’re not gonna take it. Now they’re separating
out, about this big. the Euros between themselves. [laughter] So now if you buy
Euros from… Do you understand the complications that we’re
Have you seen all the new solar battery rechargers? Well because involved in?
of the new diode lights -- you’ve seen those little tiny ones? Well
they’re putting them in little packets. You can do this yourself. I’m trying to get some stabilization for all of you because I love
all of you. You’re part of me. We’re all together. And if we’re
Get those, you know, those Christmas tree lights? Well, you put not together, we have something wrong as soon as we start
more than one together, get one of those solar rechargers, put in looking at differences and divisions between each other.
the battery -- get one of the new long-life batteries in there -- and
those will activate those little lights and you can put them in a I don’t care. As the ETs say, this is the human race. You may be
cluster. You’ll have enough to light up this room. all different colors, but this planet is the humans’. There’s only
one race and that’s all there is. That’s us.
So what you need, then, is the light that will come into the room
at nighttime. That’s when you need it. During the daytime all it’s Well we’re all part of the same connection because this planet
doing is recharging. So you can have light perpetually if you need happens… unfortunately, it’s a prison planet. There’s many
it and that’s essentially as close as we can come with the planets out here inhabited with humans. Humans.
technology we have that’s available that you can make yourself.
But we’re a mess! So what we need to do is create this system
You’ve all seen ’em. You’ve seen the little lights. They come we’re talking about, on helping people to assist themselves to
around and tell you. You have this emergency light. You wind it wake up. But they don’t know who they are. They don’t know
up. It has a little light. That’s those little diodes. The thing is that that they have a soul inside that weighs -- how many grams?
they’re all made in China.
Voice: 21 or 22.
The United States has got a problem with bullets for some reason.
We don’t make ’em anymore. We import ’em from other G: 22 grams. You know, four packs of sugar, that’s about the
countries. [laughter] size of it – its actual weight, based on the hydrogen. It’s a
connection.
They’re also putting in some new… Right now there’s new laws
coming into the United States for registration. They’re trying to And it takes 3 days for the soul energy to pull off the body. Why
do what they can for gun control. That’s really for identifying do you think most indigenous people keep the body away for
’em. about three days?
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And here’s the no-no -- and the ETs are monitoring this big time: experiments with ’em. It doesn’t do anything. That’s not next to
Nuclear energy will disrupt the soul. Imagine combining that your ear. The radiation...
energy back again.
Voice: MyoPhone?
Remember, the soul is the memory of all of your lifetimes. All of
them. You may or may not know that you have a past life. The G: It doesn’t do it. I sat down with… Are you all familiar with
feelings that you have, what you’re doing, the type of work John Bedini?
you’re doing, the family that you selected. You selected your
parents. Can you believe that? That will be for lessons that you Voices: Yes. No. [comments]
have to learn on a soul level.
G: Bedini’s kind of a… he looks like Nicola Tesla. He’s a brain
Unfortunately, the way things are set up, you come into what within the area of this stuff and he’s got all kinds of… I mean, I
they call the Veil of Forgetfulness. You forget who and what you counted 50 motors in there that are working all the time. He’s
are. A lot of babies are coming through that remember who and creating with magnetics. He’s kind of the father of the free
what they are and they’re programmed not to do that: You can’t energy stuff.
see people. You can’t see other ones, and little kids. That’s a lie.
So they’re programmed not to understand other dimensions. We started working on all these devices. It doesn’t do that.
Because, remember you’re holding it up to your head… How’s
We are working simultaneously -- that’s simultaneously in many that gonna stop the transmission of it going into your head?
dimensions -- at this minute. We are being reflected, not only in
this hologram… I call it, and you’ve all heard me say that before, Voice: It must be a diffuser.
this hologram of this Rent-a-Wreck which we come back to
whether… They said the light condensed or vibration of different G: It’s not. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be able to hear.
elements.
Voice: It’s a diffuser.
But the real basis, if you look at it all, there’s nothing there but a
series of protons and electrons spinning so fast they appear to be G: Yeah.
solid. It’s an appearance.
When you go on the airplane right now, what do they tell you?
Voices: Mm hm. Yeah. Turn your cell phone on? Turn it off. Do you know it has nothing
to do with the airplane? This is a part of the lie.
G: It’s amazing what we’ve created -- the appearance that we
have, based on the DNA programming that we put in through Let me explain that to you. All of a sudden out of thin air they
appearance. We selected it, but we’re being bombarded with come up with the deal when you get aboard an airplane, it’s
what? Radiation from everywhere. gonna affect the pilot? It’s a different frequency, a totally
different range than they use on the cell phones anyway.
How many people in here have cell phones? That’s interesting. A
question I have is, would you put your head in a microwave The second thing is I just got through telling you that it’s a
oven? All cell phones are based on microwaves. When you put microwave tower that’s transmitting. It transmits through the
the cell phone tower up, that’s sending out the microwaves. I ground. Right? So when you go in the air anyway it doesn’t
think, Brian, you mentioned that you have one up here in order to work. But the reason behind the lie that they’re representing to
get the information that’s gonna... It’s going through all of us. you is what? The 9/11 myth.
But what has happened with the cell phones -- and the scientists Voice: Right, George. [comments]
are all proving this right now -- when you put it up next to your
head, you’re a receptor. G: That’s right. The 9/11 myth was all the people who said: I got
on my cell phone and all this and we talked to the ground.
Remember, your hearing goes into little areas in your brain right
here. It converts the audible sound back into signals that go into Voice: Right.
your mind, which you are translating those thoughts back into
what you reasonably think is a word or whatever’s gonna happen. G: There was none of that. They were creating a huge movie and
When you take a cell phone and put it next to it, you’re burning it you’re all following along with the program.
up!
Voice: I don’t understand that. Explain that again?
So the best thing you can do with a cell phone is get a remote
thing that you put on it. You can get… [audience member holds G: On 9/11 there were supposedly people aboard the planes, the
up device] Not… She’s showing me the new stickers they’ve put hijack thing, that used their cell phones?
on the top of it and said that’s gonna do it. That’s not really...
They don’t help. Voice: Yeah… Oh…
You need to have one of the remote earphones on it or… I use a G: They don’t work in the air. Unless you have a… I’ll clarify
speaker phone so it’s held away from me. You know, it’s the that. Most cell phones don’t do it. There are some that work off
devil if you do, the devil if you don’t. A lot of people are… My satellites. But that didn’t happen.
buddy who was making those things for a while, we were doing
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But anyway, it’s another way to get you marching to the tune to And right now is the situation that… If you look at your
be more controlled. And you’re going to be doing this more appliances around your house, because we have to use what’s
control as it comes up because everywhere across the United given to us, if you’ve got 10-year-old appliances, go out and get
States right now water is being rationed. new ones now. Because the lifespan of all of that stuff is gonna
be coming down and there won’t be any distribution of those. So
In Las Vegas they asked me… they pay me to take up grass. bring yourself up to date. That’s all I’m saying.
They want to go back with the natural. The casinos have all that
beautiful water. They truck it in. It comes in from Canada. Ecuador actually builds Chevrolets. Did you know that? They
build trucks. Brazil has a big Ford plant down there. It’s all,
Voice: They’re rationing the rainwater. almost 100% automated. So what we’re doing is looking at Latin
America will be the trading partners for everything if we can
G: They’re rationing… Well, the overall aquifer would come into some function.
provide… it’s going down so fast, that provides water for
Denver, Colorado, for instance. The Denver water supply is way But we’ve got another thing that controls a lot of things:
down. New Mexico is about out. My friends down there say it’s Unfortunately there’s three currencies in the world today, right
the biggest drought they could look at. now. Right? Oil.
So water has to be the most critical thing on the planet right now Voice: Drugs.
for survival, because all the water has been reprocessed and it
becomes dead water. It’s dead water that you’re drinking, G: Well, drugs is the last one.
basically, in Los Angeles, or any of the big cities. So for some
advice I can tell you? Voice: Gold.
Voice: [comment] G: And gold. That’s the only currencies that are recognized in
the world. The real estate, that illusion of equity, has always been
G: Yeah. Get out of town. And the plastic bottles? They’re based on the ability of being able to borrow money against some
another problem. of it. Well, there’ll be no money out here to loan on it.
Voice: Molecules. Have you ever tried to qualify today? They’re coming back… If
you buy a house, the lenders are coming … This is their
G: Yeah. We have a lot of molecules that are being addressed requirements. They are coming into and reappraising your house
when you take that into it. But again we have a problem with it. based on the other average sales that they’ve had around. So if
What is the solution to that? Because how do you make water you agree to buy it for $100,000 but they find everything else at
portable? Well, they like to do it because they make so much $60,000, they will loan 80% of the $60,000 but you have to come
money doing it. up with the cash difference, and you can’t borrow the cash
difference. So what’s that gonna do to the real estate market?
I have a friend right here that has a bottling plant. Do you know
him? A million bottles a month of water. And then the next thing Voice: Sink it even further.
is economics. How do you get it out of the water, put it into
someplace where it’s transferable? G: Well, another problem that I didn’t tell you… There’s
another… When I had a banker’s meeting a few weeks ago, we
All of these things, if you look at it… Oil, by the way, according were discussing the next wave of foreclosures and that’s all the
to my son who’s a senior engineer with Bechtel, should be at adjustable rate mortgages that are coming due this next two
least $80 a barrel in order to cover the economics of the system years. And there’s another trillion dollars worth of those and
right now, which then totally diffuses all the other systems there’s going to be over 6 million foreclosures in the United
because it costs more money to produce it, i.e., to provide the States alone.
energy that they have.
And they’re already offering… well, they’re offering houses in
And up in Canada right now, as you know, they’re laying off the Detroit right now for a dollar, or 100 dollars. Did you know that?
people out there on the tar sands, or the oil sands, digging down,
because it costs more in energy to get the oil out of the sand. Voices: Mm hm.
What it’s doing is providing economy while people are getting
rich. But they’re being laid off in Calgary, Edmonton and G: You’re aware of that too? Yeah. Well, it’s not only Detroit.
everywhere else. It’s a global meltdown. It’s just everywhere. Many cities. All over the place. Well big deal. They want
somebody to be able to take care of ’em because now they’re
So if everybody’s gonna be out of a job and money’s not gonna finding out they’re empty, that people are coming in and
be any good, what’s gonna be the most valuable thing? Water. destroying ’em.
And what’s the next one?
Now, I used to build properties. I built in 22 states. For a while I
Voice: Food. was building low income housing, getting involved in trying to
help the people to come up. I would give ’em 100% financing. I
G: And from the future I want you to remember this: The future carried the paper. But these people had no incentive to keep the
now is going to be a situation of needs, not wants. property up, even though they put no money down.
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I had one couple. I always remember this because they were such ETs are telling me that their conveyance systems, they usually
a neat couple. They had two little kids; they didn’t have any use a mass transit type thing and the vehicles themselves last 100
money. I sold them a house for $6,000. And all they had to do years. How long do our vehicles last?
was make a $60/month payment to me. Is that OK?
Voices: [various comments]
After a year they decided because I was rich, that they should just
have the house. And I said: Wait a minute. Well, that’s actually G: Well if you stay off the street so you don’t get hit. You
the philosophy of a lot of them. So I couldn’t do that. I went understand? It’s the traffic that we have to look at. Oh, by the
through the legal system and booted them out. They totally way in California, the word traffic does not exist. Traffic
destroyed the house. So I took a bulldozer and bulldozed it over. connotes movement. Right?
You see, you can’t help people until they’re educated so they Voices: Right. [laughter]
have responsibility. Even though they say ownership will make
you more responsible, if they give ’em to ’em with nothing down, G: Well in any major city right now you have the same problem.
what responsibility do they have? They don’t, do they? So what All of a sudden we’re consuming all this fuel that’s spilling... I
do you think’s gonna go on when they take zero down? didn’t talk about the automobiles and what they’re spilling into
the air. So we’re getting it all.
Actually, in Vegas they were loaning at 130%. Did you know
that? You bought the house at 100%, you were contacted within 6 And by the way, are you breathing in deeply? How does the air
months saying we’ll loan you 30% so you can pay off your credit feel to you here?
card bills. Within 6 months the people had the credit card bill
back up. They now owed $130,000. The “why” for that was tax Voices: Lovely. Great. Wonderful.
reasons. You can write off 100% of the interest on your home.
You can’t write off your interest on your credit cards. G: I mean you may be at a higher elevation and you get used to
that in about a week or so. I built at this Colorado Mountain
Voice: George, when’s the credit card meltdown? College, in Leadville. That’s at 10,000 feet. Right? I built all the
dorms up there. You know, it was some time ago. But even
G: Frankly, I’m a little scared about that. I was with the bankers builders were building above 10,000 feet. So it’s a little hard to
again. We were discussing what happened. Verizon has the cable adjust to that, but right now after a week or two you get used to
carriers that control all the MasterCard, Visas and stuff? They it. But aren’t you getting clean air?
shut down for four days about two months ago in the United
States, the whole western United States, so they couldn’t process Voices: Mm hm. Yeah.
’em. You could process it, but they held out all their computer
bases so they could, you know, transfer it to the banks. G: Why? They have a limited population. We have… look
outside, all the things that make here. Right?
So you ask me when it’s gonna shut down? There are some war
materials that are set up right now that they can put a pulse across Now what else is killing things is the lack of… The bees are
the United States and shut down all electrical systems and all dying in the United States.
computers.
Voices: [comments]
Voices: Yeah. Mm hm.
G: Are you aware of that?
G: All done by satellite. Instantly we will no longer have any
communication whatsoever. Instantly! Well, without any Voices: Yeah. Colony collapse.
communication, then I’d have to throw away this mic. Right?
G: And what do bees do? They pollinate everything. So they’re
It’s simple. We have to look at: How do we get ahold of our trying to figure out ways to mass pollinate everything or get
neighbor? We’ll go back, I guess, whistle, or do something. things done. And the beehives now, believe it or not, are worth
$100,000.
Voices: [comments]
Voices: Wow. What?
G: These are things that we have to address in the future, and
that’s basically saying: OK. I’m not gonna have the cell phone, G: A beehive is worth $100,000. They’re taking ’em around the
even though in this country now this is basically… The cell place, they set ’em down, they rent ’em out and they put ’em to
phone is the only way you’re gonna have it. Most countries are work pollinating. And remember, pollination only goes for a
doing that, which is helping the distribution of everything, but we couple weeks. Right? Am I telling you all the correct things?
have another problem. Well, we have to look at it and we can do that.
The system, the movies and everything have set up this greed And then there’s another thing. Let’s go back to frequency for a
thing: I’ve gotta have a ten million dollar house like that. Well, second. The plants bloom and pollinate and they do all these
how do you do that? The final four laws -- There has to be some things in season, but they’re assisted too by sound. When the
balance. Where’s the balance in everything? birds are starting to come in, they come in and they start chirping
away. All of a sudden there’s sound, they start growing.
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You know, Carlson up in Minnesota developed the Sonic Bloom. G: Anyway, I was just trying to help. I still have the analysis I
Now what is Sonic Bloom? He took the same information, put it gave him. Fortunately I’ve got the original one. I gave copies to
on electronic tape, you put it on your fence or whatever you have, him. Well we don’t have anything to match it.
and the plants responded to that thought or that information and
accelerated the growth. We have to do that same thing, is what When I went to school, we used to play around with, you know,
I’m telling you. the evolving GroupNet stuff. We’re just not ready for it.
Tompkins found out that he could go down in the field… he Now the ETs say they’ll assist us. They will not do it for us.
loved his plants. Remember this? If he loved his plants, they They’ll give us the knowledge to help clean up the planet when
would grow because their frequency…. we come into, as Brian said, spiritual balance again.
There’s a group of ETs who were in South America and I got How do we awaken the spirit? That’s basically the four books
involved with them. They were plants. that we have. The four books: the Handbook and Embracing the
Rainbow; Becoming… And getting with other people to
Voice: They were what? communicate and understand the energies, that we’re
interconnected.
G: Plants. [laughter] Well, people that eat. What do you call it?
When you have something that instead of blood you have OK. A lot of questions have been asked about what’s going on
chlorophyll? What is that? right now. I want to share how Big Brother’s doing and for a little
while I’ll discuss a little bit about that.
Voice: Plants.
And business as we know it is kinda going down the tubes. The
G: Anyway they were there to see if they could live on this internet is changing everything. People are asking about this. The
planet. Because of the symbiosis, they would take our poison and government in their wise area looked at, there’s so much business
give us oxygen. on the internet, they want to start working on that.
Voice: [comment] And they’ve also set up another new system. Everybody that has
MasterCard and Visa? As a consumer you’re OK, but if you’re a
G: I don’t care what they look like, they’re my relatives! business and you’re using it, you’ll be getting, and soon, by the
[laughter] banks that issue your cards, 1099s. This will begin this year.
Well, when I got there we’re talking about cancer again and how Voices: What? [comments]
one of my friends helped me out on that. The contact down there,
their grandmother was dying of cancer and they asked for some G: Anybody that has for instance, was selling their stuff on
assistance from the ETs. And they looked at her and said: Yeah eBay?
we got it and we’ll help you in this case.
Voice: Oh…
So what they did is they gave ’em a salve. You’ve seen different
types of salve? Well the salve that they gave ’em down there G: On Google, on anything on the internet or you use them, like
went into the palm of your hands. That’s where your energies are on PayPal?
going out, that and the bottom of your feet, believe it or not, on
both sides. They understand all of this. They know how it works. Voices: Mm hm.
So anyway, you put it in there. It was absorbed into the body. G: All transfers of money that will go to an individual will now
About three days later, a scab formed. Pulled off the scab, and the be recorded back to the government and you’ll have 1099s.
cancer was all gone. It was natural. That’s a tax statement that shows the income that you had.
Because there’s a lot of money that’s been transferred.
I got a sample of it. I flew the salve itself to Kennecott
Laboratories in Boulder, Colorado, and in three days we did the Now I have a state senator that’s a friend of mine and I go with
spectrographic analysis on it. As Brian will tell you, when you do him and we had a discussion few weeks ago and he said in six
the spectrographic analysis on it -- it was like a little ball about months – and that was the date he put on it – he said in the United
the size of a pea and it was… Well, it dissolves. You dissolve the States people will not recognize the dollar.
substance and then you do the spectrum. Because you have to
shoot light through it. Voice: Why?
I have all that. Well, at that time I flew the results of that… G: Well, you have to contingently plan on all these things
because at that time I was talking to Allen Hynek. Some of you occurring and we don’t know the exact timing but that’s why I’ve
know him, and some of you don’t. He was supposedly the been telling you again and again. I have senator friends and
government liaison for investigating UFO stuff. Anyway, I flew banker friends and intelligence people and they are all playing
all the stuff down to him. He was in Phoenix, or at a place in games because it’s going so fast right now.
Scottsdale, at that time and that’s when I found out he was also
CIA. I know you’re all here because you’re interested in what I have to
say, but as well as a place. I like Ecuador. You can reasonably
Voice: Mm hm. live here, compared to other countries. You do have water. You
have food. And you have a bunch of people, in fact – they’re all
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around here, you have to admit everybody here is good. Don’t picture because you’re not going to have money to play with
you feel good about everybody? anyway. And it isn’t: My house is bigger than yours.
Voices: Yeah. [comments / laughter] Remember, the Handbook comes out and says basically that man
was meant to live in abundance, not luxury, because by using
G: Well it’s the same people that will be watching this program luxury, you’ve taken away somebody else around the planet.
right now. They’ll sit in their living room and say: Wait a minute.
How many people in here have been to Haiti? Well, if you’ve
I have all these people that showed up from all over the world. been to Port au Prince and you’ve gone out and seen all that stuff,
Well, it’s telling us two things. You, yourself, are concerned. The these people are living on less than a dollar a day.
whole world is concerned at some level except for those people
that’ve been programmed not to think. Most people don’t think When I flew with the Vice-President of Hanes Corporation, we
anymore. They’re just being led to slaughter. went down to Costa Rica, and he’s discussing shutting down all
his plants that make all, you know, the underwear. And I said:
I shared with you before, my father was in the meatpacking Where are you going with them? And he said: We’re moving
business and owned a slaughterhouse. And as a kid, and I had them to Haiti.
four brothers and our job, to save money for Dad, was we’d go
out and work in the slaughterhouse. Why? What’s the definition of “people”? Human Resource. So,
the bottom line, the Human Resource is the part of the thing
And I found out the most stupid animal in the world were sheep. you’re looking at. Does it make any sense to you? I’m trying to…
Remember, they tell people they’re sheep? When I would go and
get a load of sheep and bring it up the chute for slaughter, they Voice: Oh yeah.
were so dumb they would jump over the chute to get up with the
ones that were gonna get killed. Did you know that? G: Logically. Everything is logical. As the ETs had told me a
long time ago: We may be mysterious, don’t make it mystical.
Voice: Wow.
The universe is logical, so you’ve got to work the logic and say:
G: Guess what? The American people are in that same situation What’s going on? Look at it, identify it, and say: We’ve got plenty
right now. They have no idea. They say: The government can’t be of free energy. What’s running this planet? The Sun.
that bad. Well, it’s worse. So we have to understand.
Voice: Mm hm.
See, it’s all in these position [papers] what they’re planning --
and that’s not good news. But we have to understand there is a G: And it’s manifest in everything there is. It’s the conversion
reason behind all of it. And even you will have to realize that back that will not affect society as a rule in order to keep things
there’s some logic. We can’t keep feeding all the people. going. Well, I’m totally aware of what they’re gonna do,
reducing the population down.
And nobody will listen to the rule book in order to change it. We
keep propagating by fun. We’ve made sex a sport act rather than I mean, you know, 20 million Americans. This is what we’re
the responsibility in the creation of a new human being. And we talking about being left of this whole thing. None of you. Nobody
have ’em when they’re just… They don’t even care. They’re in the major cities. I can’t tell you about the rest of the world.
disposable beings as they come out.
But I can tell you the whole economic thing is coming down in
So society’s mental thing has to change for the future, frankly. spades. I was just talking to somebody at lunch and they were
And that’s what we’re looking at at this minute. talking about buying a bond in, was it the UK? And in four
months it lost 30 percent of its value. Thirty percent! He thought
We also have to work… Like, this is what I call an assortment of he was safe, you know, in preserving his money.
different people. We all have to get together. What if you all got
together in some little community yourself, just the way you are, So I’m telling you. Historically… I’m telling people that at this
and now we sit down and we assign jobs to each person by their minute the only thing that makes any sense on a world basis is
talent… having the base metals and that’s your gold and silver. So acquire
some. If you can do it, do it without anybody knowing it.
Voice: Right.
In the States they got everything - these little pins and everything
G: …in order to assist putting together something. And it’s a else going into your clothes you buy, everything else, so they’re
group thing. It’s not an individual. We have a collective group of going to be all monitored and run through the little computers
people. I’d prefer to have a scientist up on top to look at it down in, like I was telling you, that the government has.
because you have to remember to follow the four rules in the
Handbook. So we know that they’re going to keep track of things. Now the
next question is…
What you put together, the intent of it, you have to allow the
intent to manifest itself. That’s the allowance. V1: Wait, wait. What? Pins in your clothes? I don’t understand.
The end result of all that has to be in balance with nature and G: They all have identification so they can just wave it over [the
with the surroundings. And this is gonna be a hard job. And the checkout scanner] and find out what kind of clothes you are
ego situation and the greed thing has to be taken out of the [buying] and what the prices are.
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Another Voice: RFIDs. I think that you’re pretty much exempt. Have you had any
earthquakes down here?
G: Yeah, RFIDs. They’re going to chips.
Brian O’Leary: We’ve had a couple but they haven’t been very
V1: What was RFIDs? strong. There was one where the epicenter was in Peru,
approximately 150 miles to the east of here, in the Amazon. And
G: R-F-I-D. These are… that was a 6.5. And we felt it here, but it wasn’t, you know,
enough to break anything.
Another Voice: Radio Frequency Identification chips.
Voice: They felt that one in Quito, too.
Voice: Device.
G: You’re going to have a lot of the Earth movements. I mean, I
V1: What is that? was sitting in Costa Rica. Actually, I was in my dental chair
when the earthquake went off the last time I was down in Costa
G: It’s in almost every product in the United States, even the Rica. [laughs]
soaps and ah… If you notice, in the last four months in the
United States, if you go buy any Kellogg’s products, for instance, You know, we had one about 4.5. It didn’t do anything, but the
the boxes may be the same but there’s twenty percent less whole building rattled and I was right in the middle of doing a
product that are in it. The soap sizes are down, you know, one cleaning and stuff. But you can live. You can adjust to all of that.
percent more.
In California a lot of people have had earthquakes. We’ve had
Voice: Right. Mm hm. ’em. There’s a thousand earthquakes a day in California. Did you
know that?
G: You’ve got all of these things that are occurring on it, that
everything is going up in price without you bein’ aware of it. And Voice: Yeah…
all of a sudden you’re going to be sitting here: Oh my God, you
know, I bought all this stuff... Which is basically making your G: A thousand a day. Part of the information when I was with
dollar worth less anyway, so it’s worth-less. Worthless! Billy Meier, he showed me pictures of San Francisco totally
destroyed by an earthquake. I mean, I saw the pictures, and I
Voice: Wow. can’t tell you the date. He was concerned about that, too.
G: Yeah. Making sense to ya? That’s what I’m trying to do. But I keep looking at: Now wait a minute. This was destroyed by
Now, how many of you people enjoy Ecuador, as you’ve been an earthquake. And I know that San Francisco’s a target for a
here so far? Anybody don’t like it? bomb. So that means the earthquake is gonna, you know, take
care of California before the war starts. And they’re planning the
Voices: No. [laughter, audience comment] war starting very quickly.
G: So that’s giving us an idea, at least we found out: Why am I Voice: You’re talking about…
here? Because this is… Remember the planet, what I talked to
you about it? It’s like a boat. This is the center of the planet, and G: World War III is coming up. It’s planned for the second
the rocking and rolling that’s going to be coming up? quarter.
I just heard from somebody in the audience a little while ago that Voice: Is it going to be a civil war in the U.S.?
today there was a massive earthquake in San Jose, Costa Rica.
G: The whole world. It’s a whole world war. Because we’re the
V1: Oh! Costa Rica. Really! most hated country now. Start looking at that information.
G: Well it was over a 6. I haven’t found out what… I talked to one of my buddies, the head of FEMA in Arizona,
down in Phoenix. And he said: We’re preparing for this. We’re
Another Voice: It was 6.9, I think. going to set up tent cities along the border. We’re not capable of
taking care of the Californians. They can’t get out anyway.
G: Now 6.9. You people that understand the…
But they’re going to allow 100,000 people into Arizona. And I
Voice: That’s pretty big. said: Well, that means… How are you going to stop them?
G: Well, that’s pretty heavy. When you look at the table for And he says: We’ll be setting up tent cities.
doing earthquake reports, if you go up, every one of ’em, the
game is ten times bigger than the time before. So you’re at 5, you And the ultimate plan is they’re going to have passports between
go to 6, that’s ten times bigger than that, and start figuring out the States.
geometric equation, what it’s going to do.
Voice: What?
So we’re gonna start having some major changes, and probably
that will trigger some more earthquake activity on the northern G: I’m just telling you what’s planned. These guys are doin’ this,
part of Ecuador. and of course you’re not involved. They’re not going to put it in
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the papers, because that’s part of the Fear Factor. But I’m just…
this is not a fear factor. This is just well organized from a G: Well, in the United States it’s David Rockefeller which
scientific standpoint: How do you manage people that are in total controls, basically, the Chase Manhattan Bank. And he controls
chaos? the Federal Reserve. In Canada it’s the Bronfman family.
V1: Who are you talking about when you say they, these guys? I published a book called The Committee of 300 which lists by
name the 300 families. Right now, if you get a list of the CFR
Another Voice: Homeland Security. and the Trilateral Commission, current, you’ll find there’s an
interlocking Board of Directors of all these people. And you can
G: Well, let me… You don’t know me, Joe, too much, but I was get the names. It won’t do you any good.
asked to be the Finance Chairman for the election of Jimmy
Carter and I was running around with a group of people that are Voice: Yeah.
planning on taking over the world.
G: Seriously. If you wanna know, you can get all the
I sat in on their meetings on their goal. Jimmy Carter put it in documentation. There are a group of people. I mean, look, I’m
writing, every senator and everything. It’s called the Global 2000 sitting in a meeting, you know, and when they asked me to be the
Agenda. financier, I said: Why me?
In 2000 is when they started hitting Iraq. They’re behind They said: We owe you a favor.
schedule. They thought the nations over there would start the
war. And you watch the next little bit. It will begin in Israel. And I said: Why?
Israel is the number one target. And probably that will start very
shortly. And they said because I was doing good things in the finance
game.
Russia then will get into it. They got 22,000 nuclear warheads all
aimed at their enemy, which is who? And I said: I wanna know what’s happening.
Voice: The United States. Look, Henry Kissinger said: The absolute aphrodisiac is…
What?
G: OK? They have three nuclear submarines.
Voices: Power!
V1: Wait. Whose enemy is who? Who?
G: You got it. And he also said: Look, the number one problem
G: Russia has three nuclear submarines on the West coast. on the planet is people! Too many of ’em. So what they did, they
They’re two football fields in length, five stories tall. They’re formulated the Global 2000 Agenda. They’ve actually put up a
capable of doing 80 miles an hour underneath the water, totally monument to this -- they think they’ve completed it -- in Georgia.
undetected. It’s on the internet. It’s called The Georgia Guidestones.
Another Voice: Off our West coast? Voice: Yep.
G: Off of our West coast and our East coast. G: It’s already there for you. You can sit down [and read it]. It’s
in eight languages.
Voice: So the U.S. is Russia’s enemy.
Voice: What does it say?
G: Yes. Why? Because we have consumed the world and we
went into all these other countries and we tried to rule the world. G: In eight languages: One world order, one religion, and 500
million people. That’s their goal -- on the entire planet. Now
Voice: Mm hm. you’re going to have to be brought up to date.
G: The game’s over. Voice: That’s the internet watching you.
Voices: Right. G: Yeah, it’s around there. And so, this is all part of the problem.
Now what we’re trying to do at this meeting now is to educate
G: The game is over. We’re not ruling the world. People are you about what’s coming down.
saying: I won’t do it. So this is part of the plan. Your job now is
to get up to speed. That’s it. Voice: Mm.
Look at the information they’ve put on Camelot. They’ve got all G: But also to get you prepared, so you can be away from what I
of the different people that are out lecturing, that know some of call “out of harm’s way.”
the information. I just happen to have sat in with the guys that are
planning on killing you, frankly. [audience laughter and Now somebody brought up chemtrailsand all the rest of that.
comments] Now, that’s an experiment. After World War II we exploded
nuclear warheads in the higher atmosphere. Brian [O’Leary] will
Voice: OK. But you said “they”. So just run down “they” from tell you about this. In that higher atmosphere, the radiation has
the top of the chain of command for us, all the way down. gone up and eaten holes in the ozone layer.
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refined the new JP4 fuel that comes out of the jets. It’s a new
The ozone. Well that was a protection barrier within our planet to system in the jets that are flying around the planet. How many are
protect us from the gamma and ultraviolet rays. Those rays now flying around? [audience crosstalk]
are coming into the planet. We’re killing off a thousand life-
forms a day, including the largest oxygen producer on the planet, Voices: 25,000.
which is the plankton, basically, in the oceans.
G: 25,000, about that. So they put in new fuel. They put a new
Voices: Mm hm, yeah. component up there, hoping that this would run around to the top
and keep the, you know, basically the gammaand ultraviolet from
G: Now, what they do is, they die. And what happens when you getting down.
put something in the sun that’s black? What does it do? [audience
crosstalk] It starts heating up, doesn’t it? They also were playing with the HAARP Project [High
Frequency Active Auroral Research Program]. It was eating
Voice: Yeah. It absorbs more heat. holes also.
G: Yeah, it’s absorbing. All of a sudden it’s getting hot. Well, So we’ve got more than one game going on. Now, how do you
we’ve got black objects in the ocean. What is the ocean doing? keep track of all this? You understand?
Heating up. Right? So all of a sudden we’ve got the poles
melting, we’ve got all this stuff [happening]. We can be focused on… Let’s say I’ve got somebody here who’s
telling me: I’m a whistleblower here. And there’s another game
Then these people, scientists again, looking and saying: Well, going on over here. They may be doing all the same thing.
look, we got a major problem. We’ve got all these huge holes that
are moving around. How do we stop that? But the elite are, you know, creating their own underground
facilities in certain places. And they haven’t got solutions either.
So they tell everybody in the world it’s the CFCs They’ve got some of them. Remember, it’s all plans. Right?
[Chlorofluorocarbons] that come out of your refrigerator, so
they’ll switch you to something else. It’s got nothing to do with So it’s like the Rockefeller compound that’s in Pine Gap, in
that. Australia.
It’s the nuclear radiation, so then immediately you have all the Voices: Yeah.
groups around the world come up with “The Non-Proliferation
Agreement” on the nuclear stuff. It has nothing to do with G: I sat in with one of our governors and he explained to me that
anything other than we’re killing ourselves. You didn’t know he got his ticket to that. I said: What ticket? And that’s when I
that. found out. You know, certain people got elected. 35,000 people.
Didn’t you know we’re losing 1000 life-forms a day? Somebody When I further investigated, they were hiring workers from India
else was telling me about the birds today. How many people to come down there. They paid ’em $50,000 for six months. It
know that all the pelicans are dying all over the West coast right took ’em about six years. And it’s totally underground, totally
now, and dropping on the highways? Today! Why are they doin’ protected. Now, what do you think the problem’s gonna be?
that? Chemicals, radiation, and everything else.
Voices: Earthquake.
So now we have the next situation we have to be analyzed and
say: Wait a minute. What else is happening? G: No spare parts!
I’ve already told you we’re killing off the water. Somebody Voices: Oh. [laughter]
mentioned that they have all this good water up in Michigan. Do
you ever realize how dead that water is right now? Do the G: Now we just got you saying it, but think about it. If you talk
analysis and find out what’s going on. to anybody that lives underground, they don’t live very long. You
gotta get out and see the sun.
You know, we have the dreams that this is going to change,
somebody is going to change it. Who? You know, who’s going to So what we’ve done… I’ve looked at things, around. I flew down
save us? to Texas and I talked to the guys at Monolithic Dome about dome
housing, and dome construction. Because the ETs are telling me,
Well, I went around with the guys. They don’t care about you. I he says: Prepare for 300 to 400 mile-an-hour winds on the
mean, I’ve been in Washington, guys. There’s a 100,000 people surface of the planet. Not every place.
marching in the streets. You’re just rabble. These guys are bought
and paid for. So I said: Wait a minute, 300 to 400 miles an hour? The buildings
I build would fall apart real easy.
[to audience] Yes, Gary?
And then I started to check into wind velocities. In Mount Baldy,
Gary: You didn’t finish your chemtrail thought. California, which is out in the San Fernando, you know, at the
end of that string of... Their winds are sustained at over 120 miles
G: Chemtrails. The scientists decided that there was another way an hour. Look at the hurricanes that are coming up and the speeds
we might be able to do it: Let’s create a net to try to keep the that we’re having right now. Well, we have these same winds at
radiation down. So they put together chemicals, you know, they both Poles.
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Meanwhile, everything’s melting, everything’s changing, we’re Meredith here is, even in her way, is out here doing this, too,
all getting ready. So today you guys are totally safe right here. providing light and understanding on a very deep level,
We don’t really care what’s going on in the world, do we? awakening the Spirit to wake you up to what’s going on.
Voices: No. Bill and Kerry with Camelot are running around the planet trying
to get people to, you know, whistle-blow, to show you the facts
G: You want to forget everything that’s going on the world, that are there. You can go up on the internet, download all the
frankly. Because it becomes totally insane. It does. information and discern it. And go research it yourself.
I’m sitting here because, you know, I’ve sat in on both sides. As I You don’t have to be sitting… You know, John Lear and I were
said, I was one of “the guys”. That’s only because I learned their sitting one day [talking] about the underground bases, you know,
system and they liked me. But then, when I found out what they that’re supposedly at Area 51. Well, they’re not in Area 51.
were gonna try to do, I was trying to explain to people. So I kinda They’re at S-4, which is… That’s a huge base out there. You’re
dropped out, but I still have… probably aware of that.
That side contacted me because I’m the wild card -- I’m involved When I was at Edwards [Edwards Air Force Base], when I saw
with extraterrestrials. They’re monitoring the whole works. the spacecraft as close as you are, you know, at Edwards… I
They’re not doing anything. mean, I’m looking at this disk. That wasn’t anything to me. It was
just another disk. It was one of the crazy research vehicles we
You can see their spacecraft. The big stars that strobe red, blue have, you know. And I got educated, let’s put it that way, on
and green? Those are spacecraft. I mean, we’re the television set what’s happening.
of the universe right now. [laughter] So what are we gonna do?
So anyway, at this point there are extraterrestrials out here -- our
Voice: Amazing Race. [audience crosstalk] ancestors. Man did not originate on this planet.
G: Now I’m gonna open up, because of the timing and Voice: No?
everything, and you guys have certain questions. I will answer
any question and we’ll try to organize all this. You can always G: We did not come from here. They engineered us. But they
get my videos. You can go online and listen to Camelot. You can were giving us… The wild card is free will. We can say: Hey, I’m
see my other interviews. We have videos, all kinds of things that going to heaven, you know. I’ve got some unknown God that’s
can get you up real fast. And I’m willing to answer as much as I gonna come back and save me, and all I have to do is… You
can on a personal basis. know. It’s unbelievable.
Voice: Do you think they’re taking bets? [laughter] The information I have is: Everybody, you’re all gone. And then
you give thanks every day for having this experience. It’s part of
G: And the question I have is: Who’s taking bets? Are you my your soul growth.
man?
Now let’s talk about everyday mechanics, logical mechanics of
Voice: Yes. the body. When the sun comes up in the morning, what hormone
is generated in your body?
G: No, they think they’ve won.
Voice: Serotonin.
Voice: No, no, I mean, do you think the observers, the ET
observers are taking bets? G: That’s exactly right. Serotonin. It gets up to bring you into
what we call the 3D world. That’s its job.
G: They’re concerned. They’re concerned. There’s more than
one group that’s up there. Seriously. I get information all the time When the sun goes down, Mel steps in. Right? Melatonin. OK.
and they’re very happy to support me. Look at me. I’ve got a lot We’ve got Sera during the day and Mel at night so you can
of energy. I’m putting it out. I’m talking to as many people as I remember. [laughter] Now Melatonin goes up and allows you to
can. go to sleep. That’s the way we should be working.
And the only problem that I’ve had… Have you read the last Voice: Where was she last night? [laughs]
message in The Messages to the Ground Crew? How many
people in here haven’t read the messages? G: We’ve upset all these things because of the vibration of all
that’s happening, so it’s a little confusing.
Quite a few of you. Anyway, they’re just saying there’s too few
of us on this planet to make any significant difference. That’s But the truth is, your communication, if you set the little prayer:
what they’re saying. I’m a human becoming, and then you ask the questions, most of
the information, the downloading of your experience is being fed
And they’re urging everybody to get together to continue this to the Master, the Creator in the sky who listens to creation
“Game of Like Minds”. Aren’t we all like minds? Yeah, people between midnight and four [a.m.]
like this here, that understand the situation, understand we gotta
help each other. And that’s what we’re all about. You know, it’s
everybody.
378
That’s when you’re going to get the best results when you pray. G: I think I said on your program a year ago or two years ago
When you pray you’re putting out thought. When you meditate that Obama was going to be President because he was anointed
you’re supposed to receive thought. by David Rockefeller.
In the Bible, John 1 says: In the beginning there was the Word. Voice: Exactly.
That was not right. In the beginning was Thought, and thought
was God. So it’s the thinking of the creation is what we’re G: I’ve said that in public, on the station. So you’ve just seen it
looking at. Do you understand? all being fulfilled. Right? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see
what these people are doing if you can figure out who’s the
We don’t have to look for some mythical person that’s going to players and who are not. And just observe it. But don’t get caught
come back and save you from harm. They aren’t going to come up in the game.
back.
Voice: Right.
It’s like the ETs told me: Are you going to be lifted off this
planet? Well, if we took you to another one, you’d trash it in half G: This is not the time. We’re past the point of getting caught up
the time. [laughter] You know how to do it! in the game. You want to get educated. Now’s the time to get into
communities. Form communities and then get yourself prepared
Voice: Yeah. It’s bad. to, what? Total economic collapse. You’re going to have to have
some kind of trading things.
G: It’s the same situation. Is there anybody going to come back
and save you? No, you’re doin’ it. This is a do-it-yourself job. Some people are out here showing me their gold they got in their
[laughter] It really is. pocket like good guys. Which is fine! You know, I always have
it. That’s only because, when this thing crashes, it may do it
OK. I have some young lady here that’s going to ask me a overnight. Like, I’m dreading it.
question. Go ahead. And I’ll repeat it so you can hear it in back.
I told everybody some time ago: It’s going to be a long weekend.
Voice: Oh, I can say it really loud if you’d like. When there’s a Friday, you know, a Friday, Saturday, a Sunday,
and a holiday. You’re going to go to sleep on Friday night and
G: Go ahead. it’ll be all over. And then they’re going to call their banking
holiday.
Voice: OK. This is my question: With regard to people of the
stature of Jimmy Carter, who you were asked to be in his That’s coming up, probably within the next few months. That’s
administration and even, a little bit different, Bill Clinton. He’s the reason why I’m very concerned, why I’m down here, and
not exactly in the same league I’m talking about. why you’re all coming down here to find out what’s going on on
the planet.
Jimmy Carter now almost seems sort of like the “Pope of
America”. He’s always here and there, and the Nobel Prize and And it’s not just here. The people I just talked to, they’ve got
Mr. Peacenik. And he goes to Russia, and he’s like the grand old some bonds in the UK [that] lost 30 or 40% of their value in four
grandfather, Mr. Wonderful, blah, blah, blah. How does Jimmy months. All up and down…
Carter rationalize or reconcile these two huge polarities? I’m just
curious. I mean, if you have any… In Spain they’re doing the same thing. They have all these condos
along the beach, you know, from Malaga on. If you’ve been
G: Did you hear the question? How do you rationalize Jimmy down there, it’s beautiful. So they built all this stuff out there so
Carter, who was a one-term Governor when they asked me to be you can enjoy it. Most of the people head off down to the island
his Presidential financial advisor? off Africa.
I didn’t know ’im. In fact, the question was, I asked them: Who is You know, if you go and look at all of that, everybody wants to
going to be the next President? It was two years before he go enjoy themselves. But they don’t understand there’s people
became President. And they told me Jimmy Carter, and I said: behind the scenes that are planning on wiping us out. You can
Jimmy who? And they told me, and I said: Well, that’s enjoy everything. What you’re doing has been created for them.
interesting. I said: I’ve been voting Republican. Everything’s been created for them.
And then Paul Volcker (he’s about 6-foot-6), he comes over and [to audience] Yes sir?
he says: Son, don’t worry about it. We control them both. That’s
the Chairman of the Federal Reserve at that time, who is the Voice: What are the different factions of the ETs? That’s one
spokesman for David Rockefeller. You’re right back to the question. And then the other is: How much effect do they have on
same… how things are working out for us here?
Voice: And knew Obama was. [audience crosstalk] G: The question was: How many different factions of ETs?
We’re being visited by all kinds of ETs. I mean, whatever; you
G: Of course. name it. There’s one group that are standing by, rooting for us
destroying ourselves because they want the planet.
Voice: Obama, what?
There’s the other group that I’m involved with that says: Wake up
who you are. We’ll assist you when you awaken in order to
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reclaim your planet and you can be admitted to the Cosmos… if You know, at that time I was involved in another thing with our
you want to look at it. Secretary of the Treasury, running down some money, $50
million. Our Treasury Secretary. You remember Gonzales?
We will be able to go to other planets. We’ll be given the
technology to go to other places and to other planets to survive if And anyway we were running some of the money down that was
we need to. We’ll visit ’em, but we’ll do it on a different basis, being laundered for the so-called “Weed”. I published some of
based on the four rules that are spelled out in the Handbook. this stuff.
And those people should get the Handbook and read it a couple I even got the publishing trade mad at me when I published the
of times. It’s downloadable free on my website truth on the Kennedy stuff. So, you know, you don’t do that. It
www.nohoax.com N-O-H-O-A-X. In fact, the first three books doesn’t do any good for any one of us. I mean, I had the
are on it. You can download ’em. If you want hard copies, well, documents. You can read them all.
they’re all gone here. I only brought a few sets because a lot of
you people already have ’em. But it’s a start. And the Plan. What are you going to do about the Plan 2000?
They’ve already endorsed it.
And these books are written, in a way, by them [ETs] to trigger
you on a soul level, to awaken you to what’s going on and so you [to audience] Yes?
can be in direct communication. You don’t need me. You only
need you. Voice: OK. Another question: So you don’t agree that we’re
going into a new section of the galaxy which is a higher density,
[to audience] Yes? the Earth is actually evolving, you’re in fourth density. And that
we need to, as part of our development, transmute to this higher
Voice: George, what’s your latest information on 2012? And level of understanding and consciousness that we can actually
what are your guys, the ETs, telling you about evacuation function in.
programs, any of this sort of stuff?
G: Let’s put it this way: Those people that are coming up to the
G: 2012. Frankly, when we were doing the Plan 2000, the fait awareness level, the frequencies will be automatically changing
accompli – You know what that means? Totally completed. The and you’ll be merged in like you won’t even know anything
guys want to have the world depleted down to 500 million by the happened. But as far as any miracle about coming back the way it
year 2012. is now? You tell me that the way it is now is working? [laughter]
The ETs aren’t going to come to lift us off. Where are you going Voice: Well, the information that I’ve obtained and sort of
to go? Are you spiritually ready for all this? acknowledged is fairly scientifically based. It’s on David
Wilcock’s site. He’s really come out with a lot of the, you
Voice: But I thought we were going… those of us that are awake know…
and aware and in contact, that we’re going to be lifted off. And
we would return as fourth-dimensional, transformed… G: I know David.
G: Again, that’s a lot of what I call New Age nonsense. Voice: Yeah. I really like his stuff about the, um, scalar
technology, the way that we’re evolving that way. You’re saying
Voice: Really? that we’re just going to change automatically, and then we’re
gonna end up in this halcyon fourth dimension thing, and the
G: Yes. Look, I have a lot of so-called people, like J. Z. third dimensional Earth is going to just go kaput.
Knight… Ramtha. Right? I lectured at the Ramtha group. And I
told them flat out. I did this publicly. G: No, I’m not saying any of that. You’re not sure that the third
dimension… and why worry about all that? I mean, seriously,
Ramtha told everybody everything’s going to come all right, and why worry about it? The logic of the universe… It’s not like
I said: It’s a lie. [audience crosstalk] Why do you think I did that? turning on a light switch and you’re going to go do all of this.
Well, it’s true.
I mean, you know, how they teach… Over in India for instance,
They were talking about the NESARA programs. Has anybody if you look at their religion’s background on it, they say it’s like
heard about the NESARA programs? the elephant: He’s just going to lay over on its side and go back
to sleep and will cease to exist.
Voice: What is that?
Voice: OK. We need…
G: NESARA. You can look it up on the internet. [audience
crosstalk] I don’t care what you do. It’s supposedly our G: Anyway, the question that you have: Do I believe that? Not
government – that people up there are signing that we’re going to from the information that I’ve had on a very logical basis, coming
bring our government back to where it was, back to the into it.
Constitution. Do you really believe that? Come on. You know.
Yes, there is some frequency changes on it and those people that
Then guess what? They said our good friend Ron Paul down wanna go back and just lay down: Well, I’ll just wait for it to
there was gonna be heading this all up. happen. It’s not gonna happen. YOU gotta do it. You have to take
an active part in raising your consciousness, which is the
frequency changes.
380
G: Oh yeah. Actually they have a list of them on the internet.

Voice: Well I’ve done all that, and I know what I know. You may have them on Camelot or you’ve made reference to
[audience crosstalk] But, George, I mean, realistically we want them.
something practical, some really practical guidelines on how we
can make a difference here. Voice: What is the question?
I mean, I’m frustrated to hell with hearing all this stuff, knowing G: FEMA. What do I know about the 600 FEMA camps across
all this stuff, doing all this stuff. I’ve been doing it for 30 years, the United States?
and nothing is changing. What have we got to do to change the
paradigm, change the energy structures and do this? That’s Federal Emergency Management Agency that’s all setting
up. Why do I know about the military, one of our Divisions
Voice: It’s her fault! [laughter] coming back to say they’re getting ready to round up and control
the people that are going to be in these camps? Right?
G: Did she say she’s been doing it for 30 years? Well it should
have been done. [laughter] The camps are because people are going to be out of money, out
of work, and everything else. And they’re going to have to be,
Voice: I’ve been doing all the research, I mean with you and what? Nannies. So the FEMA camps are set up.
everybody else. I mean, we’re all here, knowing the…
That’s where, when I was asked to be, you know, the Finance
G: We’re all here to understand that we all have to collectively Chairman, and asked to build an enemy prisoner of war camp. It
do things, but we will be guided. I’m telling you, we will be says Enemy right on the sign as you go to Vegas. And my
guided. question is: Who is the enemy? You know. It could be Patrick or
Henrietta, or Darren.
Voice: … the truth is, wouldn’t you say, we build a machine…
Voice: Trading with the enemies.
G: No.
G: Well we are. We’re all trading with the enemies.
Voice: We’re going to be knocked up, we’re going to be
knocked over and killed like so many other people have done I don’t have all the answers. I know, I run around with the guys
before. I mean we need to know what we can practically do to do that are planning this and they plan it every day, something
this. I mean, what Stephen Greer did in 2001, I thought was different, because it didn’t work out well. Same thing with you.
fantastic. Disclosure made a lot of difference to a lot of… You design a building. I build a building, and I get the thing up
there.
G: Well then, what we have to look at is what will make a
difference on the planet. I’m asking for guidance. And you know I stayed in Beijing. I stayed with a guy where the people were
what my guidance is? To come out to awaken people out here, to building their apartments. I said: That’ll never work, the way they
let them instill in themselves what’s coming down and get ready were doing it. Are you familiar with Chinese thinking?
for it all. That’s what my guidance is.
Voice: A little bit.
Voice: We’re ready. We’re ready.
G: Well, the Chinese at that time were building what we called
G: No you’re not. poured-in-place concrete buildings, structures. And you’re
required to take care of your parents. So they’d have one room
Voice: Not really. for the parents, one room for you – the living room -- and the
other room was for the bedroom for them and the kids. And the
G: You’re waiting for something to happen. You’re waiting for kitchen was one end of the complex, for everybody on the floor.
something to happen. And the other end was the “necessary room”, actually a hole in
the floor. And that’s how they built these structures.
Voice: No. We want to do something. We want to be able to
participate and do something. But I found out - when I talked to them, I said: It doesn’t work.
Because, crazy me, I built an apartment complex out in Colorado
G: Then start a community. Help other people get going so they and it’s like a deck of cards. You pour the concrete down and you
can survive this. put the reinforcement on and you pick up all of ’em and put ’em
into place. It makes sense, doesn’t it?
Voice: I’m here. I’m here.
Let me tell you what the problem was, because I had to tear down
G: OK. Then you’re starting. [to audience] Yes, Alphonso? this apartment. I got the building up, everything down.
Everybody loved the thing. And then the wintertime came in.
Alphonso (A): Just curious – two questions. What do you know And one of the problems is we didn’t put insulation on the walls.
about the 600 FEMA camps in the U.S. and ah…
And that’s the same way they did in it China, no insulation. So
G: I don’t know a thing about 600. It’s 1400. what we did is, the heat that we set up there, by osmosis it
brought in moisture on the walls. What happened to the walls
A: 14! [laughter, crosstalk] with the moisture and the heat in the wintertime? Can you tell
me?
381
You could be the best guy in the world. Even my senator said that
Voice: Mold? within six months you will not recognize the dollar. And I’m
looking at that.
G: Mold. The most pitiful mold. Everywhere. Every part. I’m
standing there, looking: Oh my God. What did I do? And then we [to audience] Let me get you another question.
looked at it. There’s no way you can get rid of it. Well, I took a
bulldozer. I had to. [laughter] It was the only way to deal with the Voice: Do you know where in Ecuador you can buy gold coins
problem. or gold?
Voice: Just a question: How would you advise people to transfer G: The people who want to buy gold coins, if you’ll put together
their wealth during this economic… your name and telephone number, I have the people that have
them. And you can buy and take control, and they’ll be ready,
G: From a very standard basis, we’re in a world economy that hopefully in the next two weeks. They were trying to get
trades business-to-business. Right? Well, in Ecuador right now governmental approval, like Monday or Tuesday of next week.
you can go start a business, a corporation. They advise you to do And they’ll have everything ready to roll and then down in
that. It costs you whatever the attorneys are, well, $1,500. Cuenca you can get one-ounce pieces.
Voice: $1,500? They were laughing about this. They were going to call it the
Rose, or the Panda, or whatever, you know. It’s beautifully
G: $1,500, you can get ’em in Cuenca. If there’s different ones, designed. But these will be available in a week. So give me your
you can negotiate with and get your thing. Anyway a corporation name, or give to Brian. They’ll give to me and I’ll tell you how to
then is an existing entity. Now by that, a corporation is a person. get it. And they’ll contact you.
And you get to control that person. Right? This country now says
there has to be two legitimate people, one at least an Ecuadorian, [to audience] Yes sir?
on the corporation to do it. That’s the new rules.
Voice: George, you mentioned about gold coins in Ecuador.
But now the corporation’s going, and you have it. You can Hugo Chavez said he was going to try to organize some more
transfer money from your other corporation, or any money that South American countries, for a South American currency.
you have, to the corporation and they’re not going to say
anything. So thousands and millions of dollars can be transferred G: Yeah. The question is: Hugo Chavez is trying to organize
without a problem. several South American countries together to create a new
central bank for all of them. And it’s for all of them. It’s called
In the States, there was one state that allowed you to incorporate, the South American bank. It’s on the internet.
only needing one officer. You had 100% rule. Now they’re
coming out with new rules, too, so everything’s being controlled. They haven’t got it 100% put together, all the details, because
Let me just tell you, they’re coming down to squeeze all the there’s still some arguing about how to fund all this stuff. Some
things down. of the countries have money; some don’t have it right now.
Right?
But if you have money, they don’t have any problem with
transferring money in here right now. Now, it’s going to be in They want to create a currency, like the Euro was created out of
dollars. And that’s the reason why I’m looking into other thin air? Well the Euro - they’re fighting among each other right
facilities. now and don’t want to join in. The Euro’s in Spain. And
somebody said that Greece is no longer good. And, you know,
My friends over in Panama, they have the biggest banks there. Germany’s controlling that. Unemployment’s growing like crazy.
They’re concerned too, because what do they do? They’re
laundering all the drug money and everything else. Right? So And in America we have the same problem. It’s happening there.
they got billions. It’s a world-wide phenomenon. So that’s where we’re at at that
point.
But we gotta go to the next step - Columbia. They’ve got what
they call the “Columbianization” of Mexico. Seriously. And the Anyway, you were asking about what’s going on on that. I was
Bush signed an Executive Order saying you could not talk about for that because it would make a basic currency. I was hoping
Mexico and what’s going on right now, because they were they would go with the gold base.
talking about the new currency, supposedly uniting them all.
Now, my senator in Idaho is this week I believe, presenting a bill
Well, the Prime Minister of Canada says: No way. Right? I don’t to create a currency in Idaho -- our own currency to use within
know him at all. I did spend some time [there] when I was asked the state, backed by silver.
to be finance chairman for Carter. I sat with Pierre [Trudeau] and
his wife. So I knew them. [to audience] Yes?
Other things go on -- you have no idea -- behind the scenes. Voice: What about playing other semi-sane independent
Because what is told to the public is totally different than may be currencies, say, like Australia? Or like New Zealand? We played
behind the scenes, and they’re running the agenda. And it all the Euro maybe for a while. I don’t really know how long
follows the money. Follow the money. term, but at least as an alternative to the dollar and having gold.
(inaudible)
382
G: EVERBANK in Florida allows you to set up a basket of Voice: Right. I agree with you.
currencies in your account.
G: I sat in on a meeting with a dozen people who were talking
Voice: There are a lot of places too that want to do that. How about using chemicals, biologicals, everything. Right? We
long will this other trend continue and will they benefit from the adjourned. About six of us went into another room and said: We
drop in the dollar, at least for a while, even though they could be want to get rid of some of the people in the other room. [laughter]
damaged by that?
They don’t even care. And I can’t tell you who’s going to be up
G: You know, frankly I’m looking at a shut-down for a while, so on top when we get through, in the world. But I know that world
I don’t know whether you’re going to have any currency leaders -- world -- not just the United States, that world leaders
whatsoever. want to reduce the world population.
Voice: I understand. But think about it. The worldwide shut- And isn’t keeping the economic game because you’re just a
down is possible to come after a devaluation of the dollar. human resource and so is your money.
G: What you want to do is make money off of everybody And somebody just told me this: They’re putting up a law right
else’s… now. They’re trying to put it together in England. They want to
tax your savings. [laughter]
Voice: No, but…
Voice: I understand. We’re all trying to do a day-to-day.
G: What I want you to do is preserve your assets.
G: It’s a day-to-day. I don’t have an answer for you.
Voice: That is exactly what I’m talking about. In the last six
months to a year, getting out of the dollar and getting into gold Voice: I understand.
was, you know, devastating to many people. First off, dealing
with a manipulative situation is very difficult to do. G: I just don’t have an answer. I’m just saying, my own personal
self, everything’s in metal.
G: Well…
[to audience] Yes?
Voice: We lost money in silver. We lost money in gold. We lost
money. Voice: George, I find this utterly valuable, and I wish to know
whether you have made an arrangement, or commitment, or
G: A lot of people were making money in gold and silver this decision that you will have this talk released on the internet soon,
last year, too, so you can’t say all. or released so we can purchase it?
Voice: Oh, absolutely not. It’s a trading kind of deal. It always G: You have to talk with somebody else in this room back here
is. It’s what you said… we don’t know… because they’re planning on putting it up on their own site,
Project Camelot.
G: I have a problem, as an underwriter. I predict they’re going to
shut the market down. Voice: So Camelot will? OK.
Voice: Is that the market worldwide? Or the market in the U.S.? G: I’m asking. Will Camelot do it? Yeah, they are.
G: In the U.S. Voice: I’m curious. When do you foresee the COMEX fold
which manipulates the gold and silver prices?
Voice: Yeah, so that’s not worldwide.
G: If you pull up Gavin [Wendt] – are you familiar with Gavin?
G: But they’re all interconnected. Anyone familiar with Gavin?
Voice: I know that, but will they allow all these countries to go Voices: Yes.
into it with the crash?
G: They’re pretty much the guys that are monitoring it. When I
G: That’s the reason why World War III has to start. Who’s was over at the Silver conference… There was a conference
going to end up on the top of the heap? from all over the world – silver -- I was there about a month and
a half ago and they were concerned too. See, it’s affecting them.
Voice: I see what you’re saying, but I don’t actually believe it. It They’re shutting down the mines in the United States right now.
could happen in stages. I mean, think about it. They’re not going
to want the whole world to crash. And the same thing with the oil companies. Oil companies are
shutting down production because oil is down cheaper than when
G: Yes they are. it… It should be about $80 a barrel right now for oil at this point
rather than the $40 they have. So they know it’s going to come
Voice: They want to end up somewhere on top, as you say. back up.
G: No. We don’t know who’s going to be on top. Voice: What about Lindsey Williams’ suggestion that they are
doing this with the prices in order to bankrupt the Arabs?
383
Voice: Exactly.
G: No. You know, I know what Lindsey said and he’s coming
out with all these things. The Arabs… And their problem is, they Another Voice: But the government is a disappointment. They
don’t tell anybody how much oil they have left in the ground. want to sell the rights to the mining to the foreign companies.
And so we have: Yeah, we have a lot of oil. But remember, that’s
been the currency but now that currency is collapsing. So it’s G: Well there’s no money in it. [audience talk] There’s a very
causing a lot of oil people to come down, you know, to stop ’em. new law, and there’s no money in it.
It’s the same thing.
Voice: (crosstalk)
But it’s not just this. This is a world thing. So I’m telling you, in
order to get the Arab nations worked out, let’s get the war started. G: Well, anyway, the government situation is changing on a day-
to-day basis. They’re working on it. In my little way I’m trying to
And, you know, Obama gets in. He’s going to be stuck with a assist them to analyze it. Most people won’t even recognize the
stacked deck pretty soon and because all this money transfer because it goes by the piece of paper that you have. [to
they put out in loans are all short-term loans. They’re not 20-year audience] Yes?
loans. They’re all “day” loans. When you borrow, hear this.
Voice: What you predict, that these people want to get the world
[to audience] Yes ma’am? down to 500 million?
Voice: Going back to the gold question. Here in Ecuador, Correa G: Yeah, they put it in writing.
is going to allow mining, open-pit mining for gold, because the
largest reserves in the world are here in Ecuador. Voice: So I was wondering, really, if that many people were to
die from all these different…what is it going to matter, a big box
G: I know. of gold? I mean, who’s going to really care?
Voice: They’re going to ruin our mountains. They’re going to G: They’re not. They’re not.
ruin our water supply just because of the gold everybody is
seeking now. What is the sense in it? Voice: What’s the point of it?
G: There’s no sense in that. And I’ve wanted to talk to him about G: The gold is merely a storage of wealth, temporarily, while we
it. And there are some things in there so they will not affect the can acquire some things to order this, to facilitate yourself,
environment as such. But he’s also trying to… because your dollar’s going to go down a whole lot faster than
gold. When it’s all over, gold won’t be worth anything, either.
Voice: How? There’s no such thing as open-pit mining without It’ll be your seeds…
affecting the environment.
Voice: Right. It’s back to the land.
G: Yeah there is, there is. There’s a brand new… I was with the
mining company. G: Yeah, and even that… People have said the only thing is
going to be land. And even that is going to be subject to: Who’s
Voice: How can they do it? going to enforce the ownership of the land? What legal system do
you have? You know, real estate. It’s the old thing that I used to
G: Well, we have a new mining vehicle that basically doesn’t do tell people: You have contractual right to use the air space
any of that. It goes through all the stuff, and as long as it’s the because the government owns it. And as long as there is a
right kind of stuff… But we can go out and there are ways to take government that will enforce what they’re talking about, which
it out without polluting it all. is…
Voice: Do they still need cyanide and mercury? How many people in Ecuador? 13 million?
G: No! No, Voice: 13 million. That’s right.
Another Voice: No. No mercury. G: About 13 million people, so that’s not a big thing to take care
of. The land area is about the same size as Colorado, you know,
G: They have new tech. I looked at the machine. I’m sitting there my home state.
looking at it. This guy’s the largest silver miner in the world,
that’s the President of the company. He doesn’t sell any to And it’s the same type of thing, a lot of minerals, a lot of
somebody else. And he’s going to come down. everything. But you’ve got incredible vegetation. You have a lot
of protection, natural protection, because of these mountains and
And I was working with the Pena Brothers -- Anybody know of everything. And the water has not been too polluted as yet.
them? They have this huge process that the Inca -- the old Inca
gold stuff on it. And by looking at the information on it, it was a You know, they dump everything into the ocean down there in
way we could go and process it. But I was going to use the new Guayaquil and everything. That throws things off, but that’s
processing equipment that they have and then have the happening all over the planet. Look at the United States. There’s
government endorse this stuff and then we can create the gold for not any rivers in the world right now that actually reach the ocean
the government to use as a reserve and create the best currency. that aren’t polluted.
384
[to audience] Yes sir? G: Of course. They’ve got that all set up, martial law, and again,
they’ve got it selected. If you’re going to make your move - my
Voice: I’ve thought about when the dollar crashes and Ecuador wife, she says: if you haven’t made your move now, you’ve got
is using the dollar, so Ecuador will have to change currencies. maybe 60 days or so to do anything. After the 60 days…
G: The paper for printing the new currency is here in the country And she’s feeling the same way. She sees the future of it. She’s
right now. They’re in the process -- you’ve probably read that -- telling me about April. I said I don’t know. April or May. I know
in the process of printing. the second quarter makes economic sense for the guys that are
planning. You see, the gaming is to see how long they can keep it
Voice: So Americans that are migrating to Ecuador, do you think together, squeeze out the last of the money.
there could be some backlash as far as the Ecuadorians with the
American currency bottoming out and therefore Ecuadorians Voice: Yeah, that’s exactly…
losing a lot of money or savings, as well?
Another Voice: The money stops, then the airports stop.
G: Well, again, you’re asking something hypothetical. I talked to
the representative from the Swiss bank. A lot of Ecuadorians with G: That’s right.
money have moved it to Switzerland -- the dollar.
Another Voice: If you can’t buy a ticket, you can’t do anything.
I’ve talked to some other people down here. Yeah, they’re very
concerned about it. I’m actually lecturing at the University this G: Well, if you’re over in Miami like my friend just did… I have
next week, to all the students, on the economic thing, to give a CIA guy that dropped out of the CIA. He went over and bought
them the whole thing. a little 26-footer boat. And he took off, and he ended up down in
– guess where? He’s in Columbia today. He said they’re not
The school itself is in a dilemma because they’re telling their going to know. He’s going to hide out. They’re gonna have to
students how they can live economically in a world that’s been come out and get me. So… laughter]
based on trading goods and stuff on the systems that exist, and
they’re all coming apart. [to audience] Yes?
And I can’t tell you what’s going to happen, I just live day-by- Voice: Colin Powell and Joe Biden said on two different
day. I go down and have my assets in metal and I can play with interviews that Obama will face a crisis on the 21st or 22nd of…
them. [audience crosstalk] And that he will take a decision that the
people might not like. Do you have any idea what this crisis is?
Voice: What about shipping into Ecuador, as long as shipping
continues from other places in the world? G: Here’s my analysis of that, because everybody’s looking at
dates. When Bush put these things into it, he tabled everything up
G: Well, you know in the United States they’re stopping a lot of to those approximate dates, on the economy. And they’re all
the shipping down there because the big ships didn’t have any saying the economy is the big thing.
money. They were shipping the stuff on Letter of Credits rather
than on the actual cost of running them over. They don’t have an answer right now other than collapsing the
whole economy because they haven’t addressed all of the
But their fuel costs last year were running like about $22,000 a Derivatives. I mean there’s over $100 trillion in Derivatives
day for fuel to run those big ships, and it went up to $80,000, unaccounted for that are keeping our whole country together,
which is transferred back into the goods again. Right? supposedly, in our trading system. but nobody’s buying it.
And the shipping that’s going to be done here, you’re going to Foreign governments say: Prove its value. Well, how can you do
keep doing it because we are still exporting out of Ecuador. it? Accounting-wise, there’s no such thing.
You’ll be exporting products and everything for a while. I’m
looking at this as… If a global war gets going, all bets are off on [to audience] Sir?
everything. All bets.
Voice: Yes. George, according to your sources and your
[to audience] Yes sir? information, what is your best understanding as to what’s going
to happen on December 21, 2012?
Voice: I’ve battled with remaining in the United States versus
going somewhere else. I’ve got a family infrastructure, people, so G: People are aware the 2012 date is all coming up and that’s a
you don’t want to leave the people you’re with. But what you’re point within our universe which the planet travels through, this
describing is pretty serious. If there’s something that tremendous cycle. And we’re reaching a point where the end-beginning of
going to happen in the U.S., it almost seems you won’t even be this cycle, as the Mayans say, and we’ll begin a new one.
unable to leave, as if we’ll be in lock-down.
And that’s only going into the Aquarian age, talking from one
G: There will be a lock-down. So if you’re going to make any standpoint on it. That goal is where, possibly, when we’re going
move, it’s like… to be in a part of the universe where everything’s aligning, where
the possibility is, during that same year, that the planet may flip
Voice: Martial law? on its axis.
385
So we have all these geophysical things that are going to be

escalating. My sources are saying beginning this year and next, As noted before in the materials, multiple far-reaching cycles are
we escalate. So everybody’s aware there’s something going on. It coming to completion simultaneously. As in current expression,
isn’t going to be an overnight thing. For some people it will be this brings on the good news and the bad news.
overnight.
Those who have the eyes to see and hear will celebrate the good
[to audience] Yes? news of the opportunity to at last, at long last, complete the
human experience cycle.
Voice: What about Planet X, Nibiru, they’re talking about
coming back? Those who choose not to hear or see will have the privilege of the
bad news, of being allowed to begin over again. Being left behind
G: Nibiru? Well it’s the same time. See, all these things is not a happy experience.
coincide. It’s a, you know, 3,600-year cycle. [to audience] Yes.
Those who complete will not be chosen. They will choose to be
Voice: If there’s a lock-down, will foreigners that are living in chosen. Will you learn what you need to know through the
the United States be able to exit the country or will they also be traditional institutions of science or religion? Not in their present
in lock-down? forms.
G: The whole country’s going to be in a lock-down. And that’s That is not to say that it’s not possible for them to change in their
the reason why we mentioned the FEMA camps, the 4000. There focus of maintaining their current dogmatic beliefs at all cost.
are going to be so many people and you’re going to go over there. The question lies as to whether it’s worth the risk to wait to find
The rule book says if you’re over age 44, you’re going to be out.
eliminated unless you have a talent they can use. And eliminated
by all means necessary, again. If your present group focus hasn’t begun to offer more than its
usual fare, it is suggested that you, at the least, begin to
Voice: What is your understanding of what will happen in supplement the teachings by looking outside and considering
Europe and Australia? material that contains a newer and larger focus.
G: Well, Australia because of all the….Again, the world effects This does not include the information available that’s focused on
are down there. They’re having the same kind of problems. Their religion-bashing or science-bashing. This is not a constructive
economy is now collapsing. They have weather down there that use of your attention.
they’ve never had before. So we have all of this chaos that you
have to address. That you may observe certain inadequacies in the teachings and
information made available by these institutions is one thing. But
What I want you to do is forget worrying about the chaos and that the focus should be on building a foundation of openness towards
and get yourself, again, into groups to prepare yourself with as a change of attitude and the introduction of new ideas and
much knowledge as you need to get at this point. thought processes.
I mean, you and I can talk about these dates and all the rest of it. The history of the human experience has been purposely
And I can call my friends up there and they say: We’re going to obscured and distorted, not to say that the teachers are not
do it on next Thursday. But as soon as we say a date then sincere or that they do not believe in what they’re teaching.
somebody else is going to change it because, you know, one guy
comes in. A composite can be gleaned from the currently available “New
Information” that indicates truth, but it’s scattered among
And the guys that are up on top, they want this program to go on. multiple publications and authors. Most important is the search
And they’re looking for other triggers to blame somebody else on for the truthful in the human experience as a whole.
it. That’s exactly what they are.
Why are you here? What is it that is not being accomplished that
[to audience] Yes? must be accomplished in the short time yet before the completion
of these cycles? The wheels within the wheels will not pause even
Voice: I know we’re here to discuss solutions, and I think that’s for a moment for individuals to catch up. It’s a do-or-die, now-
very savvy. But I want to go back to the concept of intention, the or-almost-never moment in cosmic history.
100th Monkey concept, and hope. I would like to hear your
thoughts on… Aren’t there enough people intending? Isn’t there Voice: Yes.
enough critical mass?
G: Is there an urgency being conveyed in these messages?
G: [to the audience] Did you hear the question? The Law of Indeed, there is! Dead center or sliding back are both dangerous
Intent that they’re talking about? modes to be within.
Voice: Mm hm. Yeah. Will “Jesus” or any other “Saint” do it for you? Sorry, but no.
Help you? Absolutely, yes!
G: I’m just going to re-read. If it’s OK, I’m going to re-read just
the last couple of pages. This is the last messages that I got for You will receive your help to support you and encourage you
the public that’s involved in this book, which will answer it. All through YOUR process.
right?
386
Each of them was caught up in an experience similar to your It also must be remembered that the adversarial energies that
own. They are now who they are because it was important for have been applied have been carefully planned and carried out
them to change their experience and move onward in their over eons of sequential time, not just now.
individual process which, in turn, serves the cosmic plan for all.
Humanity has been considered only as pawns in a chess game
Think of it as a great ladder with always a helping hand to make that contains more power-plays than the third dimensional mind
the next rung. The hand is there, but you must choose to reach can grasp. This does not relegate humanity to an unimportant
out and grasp it for the purpose of getting to the next rung. role, conscious awareness at the top of the creational pile and
not to be taken lightly.
It’s not there to give sympathy, nor listen to excuses, or hear
blame of someone else or a corrupt system. Each must exercise However, it is for this same conscious awareness to become
discernment, use wisdom earned through the experience and aware of itself and its purpose through the experience gained in
choose to keep on keeping on. self-created circumstances based on the Law of Attraction.
The energy to do this is now there to be used in the process. It And remember, you’re the extension of that, so we’re all part of
does not come first. Now is the time to wake up, become aware of this incredible multi-level game. I won’t go any farther than that.
what surrounds you and decide if it is good enough, or whether There’s a couple more pages of it, and it just says… I’ll read you
more worth desiring is enough to commit to attaining at all cost. one more paragraph because it does apply to us.
Those who are able to look back, so to speak, desire whole- In the days to be experienced by humanity as time winds down,
heartedly that you choose carefully. It’s a monumental decision. it’s necessary for those of you who are now in the know, so to
speak, to begin to focus on what might be called “holding the
It’s time-out for this repetitive series of experiences, and to pole.”
experience life as it was intended within the perpetual moment,
not perpetual repetitive cycles of the karmic glue. You are Do you know what that means? Stay in the observer mode. It’s a
blessed with a restless urge to complete your cycle. Listen to it! huge play that’s being set up. You’re getting all kinds of
information. Observe the play as it’s coming on. Don’t get caught
It’s with regret that we inform you that the window of opportunity up with it.
to salvage your planet and its human inhabitants is now closing.
We are grateful for those beings that have heard the warnings Only get caught up in the play that you are doing in creating
and have turned their attention towards the creation of a more stuff, and don’t look for any outside help to help you because it’s
desirable outcome. Regretfully, that number is too few to make a do-it-yourself project again. There’s so much information in
any measurable difference. these things that it’ll blow you away!
The days ahead will be difficult and discouraging for those who [to audience] Any more questions back there?
now know what might have been. It is our suggested advice that
those who are committed to their service as “ground crew” Voice: I don’t know a lot of the things that you’re talking about.
redouble their efforts to draw to themselves a circle of believers I know them intuitively, but I’m not really financial. I don’t look
to support each other through the days ahead. at that. I feel changes coming with finances. I felt it when it
started to go down last year in the fall. And I was actually talking
There is now more important activity for this viable force of so about that in January of last year.
few in order to focus the attention on the survival of some awake
and aware individuals through times to come. It’s vitally But what I know is this, is that timelines and information that
important that this be done! comes from the ETs is always questionable, as far as what it is
that’s going to take place.
These words are the most discouraging message that has been
given to you from this source. It’s not intended to indicate that So, although you read that one line that said, you know: The
your assistance in this cause is finished, but instead it is more window is closing, they did not say: The window is now closed,
important than ever. period. You said: The window is now closing. So that is partly
where hope comes in.
Depressing as they sound, they simply indicate that each must
draw from within themselves the ability to become more Also, you’ve been talking about the Plan 2000. And again, I’m
committed than ever to the intention of finding ways to apply the not familiar with that information. But what I do hear and what I
universal laws in every situation that arises in daily life. sense in the information that I have, is that we still, although
there are not massive numbers of us that are extremely awake and
Within every circumstance there is opportunity! The laws do aware of what’s going on, that we as human beings have even
work. But, remember the laws work for “all” who apply them, thrown that off course.
but more cooperatively with those that apply them in harmony
with the creative flow of energy intended to expand and enhance So, we do still have hope, but we need to prepare for the worst
the evolvement of conscious awarenesstoward perfect wisdom. and understand that there’s always hope for the best in any
scenario. That’s my comment on that.
As difficult as the planetary situation is, there is a purpose to it.
Mankind MUST learn to be a responsible being individually, G: The suggestions and the information she has is valid, except
which then in composite form is reflected in the planetary whole. for we now have to come in to a timeline from a scientific
standpoint.
387
Voice: Can we get any down here?

The universe has got some finite points that we’re going to be
hitting which happen to coincide with all of these things. And so G: Sure. You can get them anywhere. We’re working on a
we have to look at that. project right now in Cuenca and if I have enough time to do all of
this stuff, we may be doing it out of adobe, in a new system.
And remember, all the information that we have has been well-
studied by the guys upstairs. They have analyzed everything But I don’t have all these answers yet, guys. I’m sitting here with
down to the detail, and so they know the timing and they have it, you and I should be over with some of these other guys that are
as far as the universal stuff. trying to do the same thing. And they’re aware…
Now, their goals: They’re behind schedule, so you know it isn’t Voice: Which website has the information about the domes?
all working! I mean we saw that in the year 2000, so you know,
they’re just behind. G: Well, monolithic dome. Yeah, monolithic dome. Look it up.
They’ll tell you about all the domes.
Voice: So, you know, if the other side, so to speak, is taking
precautions and they’ve got these underground military bases that Kerry Cassidy (K): But actually we have a witness that says…
house over a million people and…
G: A witness?
G: There’s no million people.
K: …that those domes are not going to withstand the winds. Not
Voice: Huh? just the winds, but the trees that are turned into, like, projectiles.
G: There’s no million people underground. G: Let’s talk about what you’re talking about.
Voice: Underground space for them? K: They’ll hit the domes.
G: No. G: No, I will. We build them. I’m sitting here looking at it. We
discussed that problem with David South who’s the president of
Voice: When this happens? the company and he says: Look, I’m not worried about it. I’ve
been building them for years.
G: No. It’s a limited number.
We’re not worried about the winds particularly. It’s those tree
Voice: Oh, OK. limbs that are going through the air at 400 miles an hour?
G: Australia was 35,000. I didn’t get one of the tickets. Voice: Yes.
[laughter]
G: Right. But because we use the reinforced concrete and we lay
Voice: OK. So therefore, where does that leave us that are, even it out in a certain way… yeah, the tree may hit it, but you’re
though we’re south of the equator, if we’re above ground? going to have a little hole that you can easily patch up.
G: You have a better chance being here. I just told you that the I’m not worried about the over-all structural thing. It’s an egg.
Northern Hemisphere is going to be the most devastated. It’s the strongest thing you can have!
Voice: Right. I know that. And we’re also looking at coming down several feet underground
and also going underneath to build basements and stuff
G: So this side of the thing, you have a better chance. underground with that on top. So you have the winds against that.
We have…
Voice: But now do we have to start looking at underground
housing? Would we be better off? K: There’s also Earthships. I don’t know if you know. Their
site’s on the web. Earthships are built out of earth and, you know,
G: No, but I think you can start looking… Watch the winds they can be built partially underground. They’re self-contained.
change. Seriously. Watch the winds, the currents of the weather.
G: That’s great. That’s part of the process I’m going to be
Domes are… Ecologically they set up, the ones that I build. I talking this week up in Cuenca with people that have the ground
mean you can heat ’em with ten 100-watt light bulbs. Seriously! and want to use this. And I have my friends that are engineers on
the subject that are flying down to help.
Voice: And they’ll withstand the winds, etcetera?
So we have all these things that are happening. I’m just telling
G: Well, if you look at it and you study that… I show you one on you. I can’t… You guys have to start doing this stuff. I can help
my website and in my video. My wife said: Can I have one of assimilate some of it.
those? And I built it myself. We’ve got one out there in Vegas on
the strip. I’ve been building them. My wife lived in one for five [to audience] Yes, sir.
years. I mean, her average utility bill was $50 a month year
’round. Voice: George, there’s another major way to build dome houses.
An Iranian architect by the name of Khalil [ed. note: Nader
388
Khalili] a very kind man, attempted to create housing out of the

off-casts of war, using barbed wire and sandbags, and he’s Voice: Hearing about all the living underground and the Earth
created this system. shift and the domes and stuff and living in the Southern
Hemisphere. I don’t know, it seems like you can’t [unclear] if
If you fill these bags… and they actually make continuous bags you have to live in some of these domes and you’ve got
now so they can be filled with sand if you have sand, clay if you conspiracies and you’ve got big trees comin’ at you. [laughter]
have… whatever. And the website is calearth.org. Khalili has
passed away. Are you familiar with this? G: I mean it’s really…
G: Yeah. Well, Tom Hyde was my architect in Denver. We built Voice: But the really poor people, maybe they’re enlightened in
a church that way. We’d use… different ways. They don’t get to hear all this and they’ll never…
What we did was took all the sand, we had all the sand G: Yesterday or the day before yesterday, I was approached to
companies bring in all the sand, huge mounds of sand, and we’d fund a seven billion dollar Euro bond issued by another country,
come in with the concrete and pour it over and then we tooled it. two of them away from here, so they could build $10,000 homes
Then we took all the sand out from underneath. for their people. You know, Chavez again. He wants to get the
money to build low-income housing.
So that was another way you can do that. Just to tell you there’s a
lot of ways we can do that. So we all have to address these things. How cheap can we have
it? And as long as you make the place, remember the other thing:
Another problem that you have with the monolithic dome deal, putting something together that will survive all this stuff.
which I love… is because they put four inches of insulated foam
it makes it so they’re basically, you know, totally energy- That’s your job now, is to research and find out what it takes to
efficient. And like I say, you can heat them with ten 100-watt build a low-income house.
light bulbs. I mean, we don’t have this kind of, you know, air
space and everything down around it, and also because of the Voice: Well, I mean… even then. I don’t know. Not everyone in
dome… the world can change all of a sudden and build these new-style
houses.
And I looked at all the other things. I had a friend that built a
dome down in Arizona, down in Sedona, and he used little pieces G: They can’t?
of like nails through the steel. And I objected to that. I mean, it’s
built down there. You’ve probably seen it. Well, they have it Voice: Not all of a sudden. I don’t think they can. What about
down there. We had a friend, too. the people living on a dollar a day? Who’s going to do that for all
of them?
But I looked at it and I said: Now from an engineering standpoint
all you have is a bunch of nails. What’s really holding it G: They don’t. They’re in trouble. They’re in major trouble. I
together? mean, seriously. I’m sorry about that, but that’s again…
The reinforced concrete… we wire them and set it up so, there Bill Ryan: What’s your positive suggestion?
we wouldn’t have any slippage.
G: Yeah, we have to have a positive. [to audience] Yes?
Voice: Well, what I described is just the initial idea. It’s gone
way beyond that. But one of the differences between all these Voice: Who’s the architect in Cuenca that you’re working with?
ideas that have been discussed… this is a low-tech, very low cost,
basic material format. G: Well, we’re not… You know, I was bringing down Barry
Green out of Las Vegas. Now Barry -- that’s not the same name,
G: We’re planning on doing the same thing in Cuenca. For no relation at all. He’s built the domes for me. We’ve been
$20,000 you get a house. Is that all right? partners in some of the building, and he’s done a lot of research
on doing that.
Voice: We’re talking a tiny fraction of that.
So I don’t have that yet. But, again, in the next couple of weeks
G: Well, you can’t because you have to end up with… Look the I’ll have some telephone numbers and things.
price of the house is nothing. It’s the crazy utensils on the top,
running the copper wiring, you know, the stuff you have inside. I just got back down here last week. My God, you gotta…
[inaudible] [laughter] I mean, this time, it was a year ago, right,
When you add in… What does a fixture cost for the bathroom Brian? We took a week when we were just enjoying ourselves
right now? I mean, you guys know. You can spend $20,000 trying to get… Well, I did a lecture in Cuenca the last time, but
putting in a bathroom or you can spend $4,000. this is a different format that they’ve sprung on me.
The outside structure’s only one thing. I mean, we’re talking Voice: George, Gary and I… My husband and I have been
about using domes. They’re basically made with adobe bricks. considering… We have twenty-eight acres in Cotopachi that
We’re setting them up in a new form, a better one. we’re going to build on.
We’re working on it. I have people working on it. I can’t do G: Yeah.

everything. Maybe that’s your job. [laughter]
389
Voice: And, as you’re talking about this partly underground Right now in Ecuador, to give you an idea, the TAME pilots have
dome thing, that’s exactly the vision I’ve been having. And we’re two jobs. Did you know that? One of them, they’re military
talking to an architect in Cuenca who… He’s Ecuadorian but he’s pilots, and then they work part-time being pilots on TAME.
Berkeley trained. He’s an environmental scientist and landscape
architect named Gustavo Gonzalez. So you might want to… And the government just last month says by, this is April 1st,
they will no longer be able to do that A) unless they speak
G: Gustavo Gonzalez? You know, I’m welcome for all these English, and they can’t have two jobs.
things. I don’t have all the time to assemble all these things. I’ve
got other people around here I’m trying to lay it off and let them [to audience] Yeah, Dana?
follow up on it.
Dana: What are some of the qualities that they’re looking for if
I want to give you an overview on what I’ve experienced you’re over 44? [laughter]
personally. I mean, I was gung-ho to expose all these people. You
know, the very first thing when I got the whole deal, when I got G: I know that engineers and scientists and stuff will be able to
the Plan 2000, I believed it and I said: No! And then I went have jobs.
public.
Voice: We’ll watch the right movies and we’ll get it figured out.
Voice: Thank you for that. [laughter]
G: You try to tell people what’s going on, but they don’t… Most G: I don’t know if there’s any right thing or not. I was very upset
people don’t want to listen. when I started looking at it, and then, you know, I’m listening to
the governor and he said: Well I got my ticket. And nobody talked
[to audience] Yes, Arlene? to me about any ticket. [laughter and audience comments] So,
obviously I’m not one of the ones that’s going to be around.
Arlene: I want to back-track a little bit to the de-population. Right?
What was the criteria for the people that were going to be left?
Did they have to be a certain age or certain income bracket? Voice: It’s my opinion that the remedy to all of this comes to
spiritual identity. I’m curious what your thoughts are on the
G: Yeah. Well, no, there’s no income because you won’t have concepts of spirit and soul. Is there a difference? Or what your
any income. They don’t care about that. Here, let me tell you thoughts are.
what they’ve done.
G: We briefly talked… The question was: What’s the difference
Their research, and I’m sitting here looking at it; again, it’s logic. between the spirit and the soul? This is a good question.
Most people work about the best they can up until about age 44.
So 44 was the date that they cut off. My understanding is that the spirit within ourselves, if you want
to look at our soul, is this conglomeration of thought that has
Using their research, that’s the most productive you’ve had, up to accumulated at this point from the creation. It’s located at the
that age. From 44 on, you’re downhill. bottom part of your heart and it’s a hydrogen conglomeration
that’s holding together all this thought process.
Now, let me give you a better… From the actuary standpoint, of
every 100 people who start out in life at age 25, by the time you Now, is it a soul or is it a spirit? I’m not too sure.
get to 100, one out of three are dead. Did you know that? 30%...
basically 30%. If you look back at your classmates, how many As you know, I tell everybody, we’re just nothing more than a
are gone? spirit inside this Rent-a-Wreck. Right? We’ve designed this
outside body to maintain it all, and the outside body is being
Voices: A lot. corrupted by everything, that’s all.
G: Anyway, the age 44 deal? You will be allowed to exist if you So, I don’t know if there’s really… That’s a question I’ll have to
have a talent that they can use. If you’re not doing anything that find out. It’s nomenclature. What is the soul against the spirit?
they can use right now, you’ll be eliminated.
I do know that the spirit comes in and does move about. You
Voice: Based also on that, is the government going to cut off have out-of-body experiences. You do all kinds of things. So you
money? Because people still need a little bit of money, like have that ability, and you’ll stick around for about three days
Social Security. when you get rid of this body. And that’s to allow the collected
thought to be continued on so you’re on your soul journey.
G: There will be no Social Security!
Many people have done studies on this, you know, Journey of
Voice: No Social Security, no Medicare, no programs? Soul and other things that are out there but I don’t have… I
haven’t…
G: There won’t… These last four months, they’ve cut down
Medicare already! They’re cutting it down. They’re cutting down Well, let’s put it this way: They won’t let me remember my
the people who go into the V.A. hospitals. They’re cutting down previous lives and what I did before. And they said “on purpose,”
all of the benefits. because the instructions that I had right now from my previous
thing, if I woke up to who I was, I’d cut out of here. I wouldn’t
be here. [laughter] So, I volunteered.
390
underneath that have already been there. So all we’re doing is

[to audience] Yes? changing the anthill, we’re just changing the people on the top.
Voice: Do you know who they’re targeting to put into these The corruption is clear on down. So, yeah, we can get rid of
camps and if they’re doing it in stages? Like first these people, everybody on top, but the whole anthill’s corrupt. Where do they
then these people, then... get their money? They’re going to protect their jobs! People will
do that. They want their income protected.
G: No, everybody’s going to be lined…
Well, the income’s going away, too, so we’re going to have mass
Kerry: Actually, we’re first. [laughter] Yeah. I’m being honest chaos in the streets, especially in the UK, where you’re from…
with you. People like George, me, Brian. We’re all first. Well, you’re already starting.
G: I’m not going! [laughter and comments] Voice: May I ask a question, George?
K: You know how it is. There’s a saying about that, you know: G: Yes.
First they came and got the communists, then they came and
got… Voice: I speak as a South American that speaks Spanish, and a
lot of people speak Spanish, beginning in Mexico, down all the
Voice: But if you’re down here… way to Tierra del Fuego. And I feel that all of this information is
very valuable. Would you know of any source that is already
K: Well, hey! Yeah. Take your chances. Lay your bets and, you translated into Spanish so we could convey?
know, live it out the way you see fit, because you’re gonna be in
the right place at the right time for the experience that you need G: You mean the Handbook and stuff?
to have when this all comes down. And your body is a temporary
vehicle so it’s, you know… Don’t get all over-anxious and Voice: Yes.
desperate.
G: Well, last time I was down here I talked to a group in… Do
G: The Ecuadorian government -- and I talked to them just you know Judy?
Friday, or Thursday, whenever I came down, when I was
discussing this situation -- they love Americans that come down Voice: Judy?
because most Americans who are coming down here are very
intelligent, they have a little bit of money and they’re creating G: That girl up in Cuenca that has… kind of like Rob, if you
jobs for other Ecuadorians and they’re making things better. look at it… Anyway, I gave them the books and nobody has done
it, because it isn’t a translatable work. I have computers that can
And they won’t allow Columbians, for instance, to come over do that.
here, and they won’t allow people from Peru to come up here
either. So they’re kind of watching to keep everything, as much Voice: We have a volunteer.
as they can.
G: You do?
[to audience] Yes?
Voice: I’ll do it.
Voice: Say for example, the people were successful and
overwhelmed the elites. The world would still be over-populated. G: Have you got the books? What we have to have… We can
How would you deal with that? translate it. It’s not just the words, it’s the meaning.
G: You’re not going to overwhelm them because… How’re you Voice: I know.
gonna do it?
G: That’s the hard part, but if you can translate it, I’ve got people
Voice: Well, just hypothetically. out there who would immediately put it in print. I’ll put it up on
the internet so you can have it. Look, I’m not out here to make
G: I don’t know what you could do, if you could overwhelm all money on these things, guys.
the people on top. There’s always… Unfortunately, society is
always dog-eat-dog if you’re moving yourself up to the top. Voice: Just say so.
To give you an idea how it works in Washington: I was in K: OK. Camelot has an interview with George that he’s telling
Washington, DC, inside the Beltway. You know: The District of everything he told here, basically. And we have what’s called
Criminals? DC? [laughter] transcripts already in Spanish on our site.
Anyhow, I was in there talking to them, and I said: Well, we’ve G: Oh, do you?
got a new crack at this -- this change in the government again,
like what’s going on right now. In other words, we have a whole K: Yes.
bunch of new people that are taking offices.
G: Oh great!
It is a requirement now in the government that when they come in
there, the people that come in have to hire the employees Voice: And this is even more information that’s already there.
391
Voice: OK. What site was that? Voice: Actually, I’ve got the catalog.
G: No, I want you… If you’ve got the information, I’d like to Brian O’Leary (B): I’ve got it downstairs in the library.
have it so I can put it… It’s the same thing…
G: He hasn’t got it here, but it gives you all of the CIA stuff,
K: ProjectCamelot.org even including Ecuador stuff. My CIA guys…
G: I’d like to have them and we’ll print them. OK? You know, the CIA is really crazy. I mean I sat with my CIA
buddy who’s in charge of Latin America, and we went in the
K: But you also have had, you know, given speeches which were Russian Embassy and the guys were freely taking on the former
translated and you have the audio on that. Right? KGB. They’re sitting there talking back and forth with each other
and they’re all in the same camp. There’s no difference between
G: Um… Some. But a lot of other languages… They’ve already them, when you look at it. So the CIA is definitely here.
translated it into Portuguese and they did it into… I don’t know.
There’s a lot of other languages that’s coming down. Correa, the president here now, is looking into the influence and
trying to get rid of the people up here that are trying to
I put the French ones up on the site. You probably saw that there manipulate this country. So that’s good. They’re doing that right
in French. We get Demers up in Canada who’s done that. now.
But people have to have that spirit on the inside that says: Oh, Voice: The Manta base is going or is gone? Or what’s the story
this is my job to help. You know, I can’t speak all this stuff and there?
do it in the meaning that’s there.
G: About what?
But I’d appreciate it if you could do that. Just contact me and
we’ll get it out. We’ll get it printed and we’ll compare it. We’ll Voice: There was an American base in Manta. Air Force. What’s
have the comparison with the one that you have up there. going on with that?
K: Sure. G: I don’t know. I haven’t followed that.
G: [to audience] Yes? Voice: I can address that.
Voice: Another thing that could help, that could also be posted G: Pardon? There’s someone in the back that can answer your
on the website is if you would make a list of the top 20 websites question on that.
that you think are powerful. And we could circulate that and
everybody could just put a check against the ones that they see. BO'L: Uh, I can address that.
Then we could see among us which websites people are finding
the most helpful. Then you could put it up on Project Camelot, G: He can… There’s a man over here in front that can address
too. that. [laughter] Let’s let this man talk.
G: Well, I think you’ve done some of that. I mean, in the United BO'L: Yeah, umm, to my way of thinking, and I’ve been
States a lot of people go to… well, your site’s going on there. following these things very closely as Pondoz, our resident-elder
ConsciousMedia.com is there. aging-hippie news-service. We’ve been monitoring these things
very carefully, and also I’ve had a few interactions with the
Voice: Rense.com. government myself, mostly on the environmental issues.
G: Yeah, Rense.com. Jeff puts up with his stuff. He has the daily But Correa has done some, I think, really remarkable things. This
stuff on there all the time. country politically has come a long way since the previous
administrations, which were almost always evicted by the
[to audience] Yes, Ma’am. banging of pots in front of the presidential palace [laughter],
because they became very corrupted.
Voice: George, just one thing: What’s your information about
CIA influence here and in Latin America generally? And the Usually they were junta leader-types like the previous one,
influences of The Powers That Be? Gutierrez. All he had to do was spend twenty minutes in the
Oval Office with Bush to completely change his mind and not go
G: Rather than give you that -- John Perkins’ latest book. Who in for the indigenous rights, but instead pocket a tremendous
here has John Perkins’ book? amount of money in corruption, and so forth.
Voice: I have it. Correa was elected and has done the following: He has evicted
the U.S. Air Force. It’s the only U.S. Air Force base in all of
G: You have it? What’s the name of the title? South America, the Manta Air Force Base.
Voice: I can’t remember. [laughter] The lease is up this year, later this year, and he did not renew it.
In fact, his response to the possible renewal of it is to say: Well,
G: Well, it’s in my catalog.
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I’ll renew it if you let Ecuador have an Air Force base in Miami. And then there have been several other things that he’s done that
[laughter] Well, the U.S. didn’t go along with that. were very positive. There was a constituent assembly. They’ve
come up with a new constitution, one of whose provisions is that
Nature has rights, which is a wonderful provision if it’s enforced.
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Project Camelot:
Camelot Live at Vilcabamba
Vilcabamba, Ecuador, January 2009
Quito, Ecuador's capital, providing the funding can be found. We

look forward to meeting our new Ecuadorian friends again, and
would like to thank everyone we met for their friendship and
hospitality.
Vilcabamba, January, 2009
Presentation
[background laughter]
Brian O’Leary (BO’L): It’s funny about technical stuff, isn’t it? I
think definitely the mechanistic age is still around, and some day
we’ll have holographic videoing from another dimension and
then we won’t have all these wires and stuff.
Some of you that are younger, remember these times. Remember

As many of you know, Project Camelot made a recent trip to all of the preparation, all the video cameras and stuff like that,
Ecuador to speak at a two-day conference hosted by Dr Brian and then just imagine what it might be like in a better world, a
O'Leary, ex-NASA astronaut and prominent Free Energy activist. world of free energy, a world with holograms, and world of
This is one of the few times Project Camelot's Bill Ryan and consciousness. A world of combined positive intention, a world
Kerry Cassidy have appeared on stage together to present our of things working, actually working.
research. Other conferences where we have appeared are the
Nexus Conference in Australia, Fall of 2008--and we have been What I’d like to do now during the segue into Project Camelot...
invited back this year-- The Crash Retrieval Conference 2008 and and I hadn’t heard much about Project Camelot. I’ve known
also at the Alamo Conference in 2008 and again this coming Steve Greer for a long, long, long time. I was one of the people
May. that got Steve Greer into his area of inquiry in the first place.
70 people made the long journey to Vilcabamba, Ecuador at short And then along come these people that call themselves Project
notice, no small feat... Some came from Canada, Europe and as Camelot. And I said: Hmm. I wonder what that’s all about. Little
far away as Australia - making this an exceptional international by little I would start to cruise through their website and find out
gathering of what George Green calls the Ground Crew. All who that what they’re doing needs to be done.
attended agreed that the networking was as valuable as the
speakers: Brian O'Leary, George Green (now resident in Cuenca, There’s a very strong need for this, which is to interview in a
Ecuador's third city), Miriam Delicado, and ourselves. very friendly way, going way beyond what, let’s say George
Noory does or Art Bell on Coast to Coast, because these folks
The title of the conference was CRISIS AND OPPORTUNITY, a really go into depth. They do their homework. That’s very
fitting theme for the start of 2009 and Obama's new important. They actually read the books of the people that they’re
administration with all that it may bring. We talked in some detail interviewing. [laughs]
about the Big Picture as we currently see it, including
information from our important new witness Jake Simpson. So there’s this stable of visionaries, mostly elders, people that
could die any time... [voice interrupting / background noise]
It was the first visit of either of us to South America. Although Was there some...? Yeah.
our current timeline is not thought to be the catastrophic one,
according to Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell, there are sure to Kerry Cassidy (KC): It’s gone now.
be various changes in governments, society and finance along
with Earth changes that may require those who are so motivated BO’L: It’s gone now. Great. So what these people are doing, I’m
to relocate. Vilcabamba is considered by some to have great beginning to appreciate slowly more and more. I had a really nice
potential as a sanctuary. And although we believe you will each talk with Bill this morning -- Bill Ryan, from England, who has a
decide where it is best to be some places may be safer than very eclectic background, and so does Kerry.
others.
So they’re doing this project and they threw themselves into it as
We've sketched out plans, to return to Ecuador in a couple of volunteers at first. That’s always a sign that these people are
months' time to speak to larger audiences both in Cuenca and really dedicated, because people that seek funding right away
394
before they actually do it, sometimes they have a silver spoon in spent about 15 minutes setting it all up. This was for some kind
their mouth and they don’t really get a whole lot done. But these of TV deal and I never even made a note of what it was, or who it
guys have really, really gotten a lot done. was, or something.
And so, when Bill and I were talking this morning, it suddenly That was at 5 o’clock and then at 6 o’clock I was with Kerry.
occurred to me that not only have they been gathering Kerry came in with this tiny little camera, put it on this tiny little
information, and doing it using video equipment and so forth, but tripod, and I thought: Where’s the rest of the stuff? [laughter]
they’ve been able to respect the wishes of those whom they have And then Kerry started talking to me. And that was it.
interviewed regarding what’s on the record and what’s off the
record. And that it doesn’t necessarily have to fit within a sound And what I want to say about that is that this is the spirit in which
byte. Camelot started. It started in the way that we would both
encourage anybody else to start anything, which is that you pick
And so we have now for the next three hours, three and half up whatever it is you happen to have, even if it’s just your own
hours during this conference, you’re going to hear from them and courage and your hands and nothing else, and start. And what’s
you’re going to hear some of their sharings and stories. really important is the vision that you hold.
I’m just so glad that you decided to come, Kerry and Bill, and And I want to acknowledge Kerry here because, really, inasmuch
Kay. You’re on. Bill Ryan. Kerry Cassidy. Project Camelot. as anything has a bit of a lineage - and we can go back and back
[applause] and back to where we really started - but Kerry started the vision
that was Camelot because of her own history with Hollywood,
Bill Ryan (BR): Just a moment here. We’re going to get way back prior to October 2005 when she got frustrated with the
ourselves wired up for sound. whole business and said: You know what, I’m just gonna do my
own thing.
KC: Yeah. You have to grab the live lead.
KC: [laughs] Thank you. Well, actually, let’s back up, because
BR: Thank you very much. OK. as much as I’d like to take credit for things, I have to say that
Camelot started with Camelot, the real Camelot in the early days.
KC: OK. So we’re both on short leashes here. [laughs] We were both very inspired by that.
BR: Which is not our accustomed style. And as it happened, I did interview him at Laughlin. Actually,
initially I thought... he represented the Serpo Project, you know,
KC: Especially not me. I’m a little too wild to leash, but, at any how interesting can that be? He’s not actually the whistleblower.
rate... [laughter]. OK. So [to Bill] you’re gonna start because He’s not actually the one telling the story. So I wasn’t really
you’re always very good at the overview type of thing. excited to interview him.
BR: So I’m going to start. OK. We have a lot of stories to tell, by When I first went up to interview him he kind of hemmed and
the way, some of which we haven’t really told before, either hawed and said: Well, maybe I’ll have time later tonight. Then he
because they’re very funny or they’re against us, and we’ve said he wouldn’t. Then he said he would. But, initially he had on
actually got to the point here where we’re very happy to tell a lot e-mail agreed to be interviewed.
of stories against ourselves. [laughter]
So the interview did happen and I was very impressed because he
One of the ones that I really like -- I really love it -- is, we had an was very balanced. Although he was the spokesperson for the
email from somebody a few months ago who said: You know Serpo Project, in a sense, because he built the website, not
what, I [laughs] was sure that you guys must have been a CIA because he had anything to do with it in particular... It was an
operation and must have been sponsored by those guys. But then alien exchange program that our government was involved in
I realized that you were so amateurish that you couldn’t possibly back in the early ’60s, supposedly, by the way. It’s online in case
be CIA. [laughter]. you want to investigate further.
KC: OK. And I take offense at that. That’s his story. [laughter] But basically he was very balanced in the way he handled the
questions, and I threw some left jabs, whatever you want to call
BR: My first encounter with Kerry Cassidy was when I was it...
speaking, from my own particular sins, at the Laughlin UFO
Conference in the end of February in 2006, because I had got BR: Right hooks, actually. [laughs]
tangled up in a really weird story that I’m happy to say a few
words about, but not more than a few, when I was basically KC: ...to kind of to see how riled he would get and to get to the
talking about a disclosure program that I had got myself root of the story, which is kind of my way, in case you’ve
inadvertently wrapped up with. watched the videos. And he handled it very well. He actually had
a calm sense of humor about it. He didn’t get defensive. And this
I was being interviewed by several people, and it was the first counted for a lot with me.
time I had ever been interviewed by anybody. It’s like at 5
o’clock in the afternoon. Eventually we went to dinner. We started talking, comparing
notes. We both had been researching incredible amounts of
I was being interviewed by some guy who had poured his life material -- conspiracies, you name it: UFOs, metaphysics,
savings in his cameras. There’s a camera here and a big tripod, spiritual disciplines -- all our lives up until that point. So we both
and a camera there. And he had all these microphones and he
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had quite a backlog. And it ended up that we had quite a bit in So that whole thing just took off. And then also, by
common. synchronicity, Bill was in touch with Mr. X.
Then I went on a trip to Egypt. My mother had passed away and BR: Yes. Just to say a little bit about that envisioning and sort of
left me a small inheritance which eventually financed Camelot initial actualization - the prompting to see it as Camelot when we
for almost two years. And I went to Egypt with, actually, Jordan were at Tintegal in Cornwall. Some of you may have had the
Maxwell and William Henry. same experience.
Voice: Wow. It was one of those things - it didn’t take hours and hours of
agonizing strategic planning. The whole thing was completely
KC: That’s where I interviewed Jordan very briefly. That was visualized, visualized and agreed, with a spontaneous, obvious
still... Camelot hadn’t begun. And on the way back from Egypt I synergy between us, in probably about two minutes flat.
was in touch with Bill. We kept in touch over the e-mails and we
arranged that I would come to England to visit him. We just spelled out between us the vision in the very broadest
general terms and literally, I think within one or two or three
And so I did. We ended up going to Stonehenge, to a lot of power minutes, we had agreed that this is what we’re going to do, and
places in England. And we went to Tintegal, one of the supposed there wasn’t the slightest bit of doubt.
homes of King Arthur. When we went to Tintegal -- I don’t know
if you’ve ever been there -- it’s a really stunning, absolutely If we had stopped to think about it, [laughter] then we would
stunning, place on the coast, and has a lot of mystical and have thought all about the “Yes, buts...” and “Hang on a
interesting power around it. We were really struck by it. minute...” and, “How are we going to finance it?” and all this
kind of stuff. And this never even crossed our minds.
And we started talking about what could we do? Here, we both
had these incredible backgrounds, Bill as a webmaster, myself as It just sounded like fun. And, actually, that spirit of fun and What
a film maker; we were both writers; we both had spiritual the heck, let’s do it, has actually been what’s behind this whole
backgrounds. And we said: What can we do to absolutely change thing in the last two and a half years.
the paradigm that was going on and actually, maybe, force
disclosure? I mean, at that time we didn’t envisage anything that was this
large. We couldn’t possibly have imagined that here we were in
So right then and there we created Camelot. Both of us were very Vilcabamba, just a few feet away from somebody who is widely
inspired by the King Arthur Roundtable concept, where there respected throughout the world as a visionary and a physicist and
were no leaders and followers per se, but that in the spirit of an astronaut, and in a different timeline might have ended up as
Arthur, you know, everyone came to the table, it was all being the first person officially to have set foot on Mars and so
balanced, there were no hierarchies, and worked together for on and so forth.
what could be a better vision of the future.
I mean, it’s become so big. The whole thing has just evolved in
I believe that was the initial King Arthur vision and I do believe front of us, like we’re on oiled wheels with someone else doing
that both of us lived back in those times and both of us were the steering and someone else doing the powering. And we’ll talk
tapping into that when we connected. And that hasn’t changed. about this a little bit more as we have the opportunity during the
So it’s very remarkable that Mere [ed. note: Brian O’Leary’s day. We take very little credit for anything that’s happened here.
artist wife, Meredith] has these lovely Arthur-like visions, and
the sword and all of that going on. In retrospect, we can look back and we can see that we make a
great show, you know. I mean, it’s like we’ve got the Mulder and
And it was also a synchronicity, you know, that John F. Kennedy Scully. [laughter] We’ve got the two different personality types.
had sort of a vision of a better future that was at least implied, if We’ve got a man, a woman, the American and the Brit. You’ve
not carried out, when he was president. It was also sort of an got the skeptic... well, the slightly more skeptic and the slightly
echo, if you will, out there. more esoteric. And we make quite a good standup team, you
know. [laughter]
We decided to call it Project Camelot because... “Project” being
sort of the forerunning name that most Deep Black Projects KC: I don’t think you should be complimenting us. That’s really
contained. embarrassing. [laughter]
I worked for a short time at JPL for NASA, helping in media. OK. So I have to say that also I know people are gonna ask this.
And I was writing a screenplay called Project Moondust. I People have been asking us this for ages: Why do you have a
worked in Hollywood for, like, 20 years and I was trying to pitch cheetah?
projects, sci-fi projects, to open minds and change the paradigm,
and getting absolutely nowhere. The reason is because, what happened was, we ended up going to
Africa because Bill was born in Africa and he was able to take
That’s why I picked up a home, you know, non-professional me on safari. One of the reasons I even came to visit Bill in
camcorder and just said: Screw it. I’m gonna make a England initially was because I knew that he knew about Africa
documentary. I’m gonna go interview these people at UFO and I am avid fan of Africa, I guess you might say, and of Egypt.
conferences because they’ve got something to say, and I want the
world to hear it. And so we set out on a safari very early on in our travels as a
kind of a break that we would take. So, one of the times we were
out there, I was able to shoot a cheetah, a real live cheetah that
396
was, you know, a young cheetah. A beautiful, beautiful animal. We need as many people as possible putting their shoulders to the
We spent hours videotaping him. wheel to get this information out.
Then when we were creating a logo for Camelot, I was... So I thought: Well, you know, we’re not trying to supplant the
Actually, because I came from Hollywood, it was my kind of guy. We’re not trying to interfere with his intentions, but actually
smartass nod, if you will, to MGM [laughter], and the MGM lion, there are people out there waiting for information. So Kerry has
which is very, very famous, I think, as a symbol of Hollywood, a little camera which I could probably fit in my trouser pocket
and, you know, the beginning of motion pictures. And of course I here, so let’s go. You know?
always wanted to make movies, so I thought putting that as our
logo at the beginning of our videos was kind of a statement. And in my experience with the Serpo Project -- and let me give a
nod to that because some of you may not know about it, some of
Also, the concentration on the eye, if you’ve seen our logo. I you may have read about it, some of you may have read criticism
don’t have my t-shirt on, with our logo. And the eye being that about it.
We’re watching you, just as you’re watching us – a nod to the
government in that respect. It’s all very weird. It involves a purported claimed US / alien
exchange program that happened back in the ’60s and ’70s. I
So that’s why we have the cheetah logo. And cheetahs are faster, became tangled up in this because, just like you guys here, I was
and the internet was our medium, and therefore we’re lighter, in the metaphorical audience attached to an e-mail user group
faster, than the MGM logo lion. where this material about this US / alien exchange program was
being released from an anonymous source.
Voice: Yes, you are. [applause / laughter]
Somebody in that news group said: You know what? This is
BR: All right. So when we actually started Camelot, we actually interesting information here. We need to archive this on a
had something to do. It wasn’t just a blank sheet of paper. website. And I was dumb enough to say: Hey, I can do that. I’ve
got time on my hands. [laughter]
Brian just now has mentioned the Disclosure Project, and we do
not know Steven Greer. We’ve never met him. We’ve never So I became the webmaster for this release of information that
corresponded with him. We’ve never run across him in any of the was coming from sources within the DIA - the Defense
conferences or on any of our travels. We would love to do that. Intelligence Agency. This is a very, very long story which we
We don’t know how he regards us. We don’t even know if he don’t involve... but there was something behind that.
knows about us.
I got tangled up with a whole lot of people from the Intelligence
But like many of you, probably, I personally was inspired by the community. There was interference from behind the black
2001 Washington press conference. I think it was in May 2001 curtain.
when Steven Greer did a very impressive presentation in front of
a lot of invited mainstream media, and presenting over a period We ended up having an encounter with one of the retired reserve
of several hours quite a number of people, some of whom have astronauts who didn’t go on the program. We’ve got a fascinating
later become our own Camelot witnesses. story about that. We actually met these people.
I remember this vividly because I was driving in Scotland at the It’s all very real. It did happen. It certainly didn’t happen like it
time, very late at night. It was about 2 o’clock in the morning and was said on the website, but there was something going on.
this thing was being reported live on the radio. I was so
fascinated by what was happening, I could barely believe it. I And just leaping ahead to what we’ll be talking about later on this
stopped the car and listened to it at that time. afternoon, we have a very interesting whistleblower who we are
calling “Jake Simpson”. Some of you may have caught up with
KC: [interrupting] Sorry. But, actually, this is so typical. We’re his testimony, which we reported on just in the last 48 hours.
having some anomalous sound effects in the background.
They’ve cut out now. So maybe you need to hold the mic a This was such an inconsequential remark that I didn’t even
certain way. Maybe hold it up there. include it in the report. I forgot about it. We asked him over one
of the many cups of tea and coffee that we had together, I said:
BR: OK. Thanks. As many of you probably have done, I found Hey, you know, that exchange program. Did that really happen?
myself asking: Well, what happened to the Disclosure Project?
What happened to the videos they promised to release? What And he said: Of course it did. He said: There are many of them.
happened as an outcome of what seemed to be such a huge
promise that was made publicly back in 2001? Voice: Wow. Wow!
Now, I don’t intend to even try and answer that question and BR: Which has always been my standpoint. It’s like, if you
there’s absolutely no implied criticism, but, to use the jargon of assume the existence of Visitors, and you assume the
one of my careers prior to Camelot, which is actually working in establishment of communications, then the next thing to do is that
business and consultancy, there seemed to be a gap in the market. we go to their place, you know, with their help. And of course
[laughter] this has happened. We can’t prove it. But that was the reality of
the Serpo story.
Now my reaction would say, using the jargon from another one
of my careers as a team-building specialist and a team-building I became involved as a webmaster, of course, and I was the only
consultant, there’s actually room for more people in this team. available contact, and that’s why Kerry interviewed me because
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Kerry couldn’t interview the real guys who were behind the and he was asked if he would like to volunteer for a special
scenes in the Pentagon, who were releasing this information in assignment. And he said: Sure. What it is?
some kind of a drip-feed, probably as a test, to see how it would
be received, and what would happen, and so on and so forth. After he’d signed his NDA - his Non-Disclosure Agreement - and
given a secret clearance, he was then told what the assignment
The story got trashed. But we think it got trashed from the inside was.
because of other people from the inside.
The assignment, that he had never told anybody about for the 20
There’s a lot of black hat / white hat things going on behind the years following that assignment, except for his wife, was that he
scenes, pushing, pulling about what’s going to be released, had what for most of the people in this room would be a dream
what’s not going to be released. They sabotage each other and job -- that for eight hours a day, for six months, five days a week,
disinform on each other just as much as they do us -- [laughter] -- he started his work in a sealed vault with a guard outside the
which is really very interesting and it’s true. door.
Voice: How do you spell Serpo? He would be given a mailbag, a big mailbag which was
padlocked, with big padlocks, he said. The guard would come in,
BR: S-E-R-P-O. That was the supposed name of the planet, would unlock the padlocks and then would leave, would close the
which is also probably not true. Later on we got into a door. And then his job was to sort out and archive and label what
conversation with another whistleblower, a very important guy in was in the mailbag.
the history of Camelot, too, somebody who we know very, very
well who we’ve given the pseudonym “Henry Deacon”, which is What was in the mailbag was UFO documents, films, artifacts,
a nod to one of the characters in the TV series, Eureka. and videos between 1947 and the early 1980s when he did this.
That was his job for six months, and he just said he just felt like
One of the very, very first things that Henry said to us as a this was, you know, he was just like a kid in a candy store. He
criticism of the Serpo Project -- where apparently a bunch of couldn’t believe he was being asked to do this job, and that’s
twelve American astronauts took nine months to visit a planet at what he did.
Zeta Reticuli 2 -- Henry just said: It wouldn’t have taken nine
months. You know. He had so much stuff pass through his hands. He never told
anybody at all. A lot of this stuff was sealed, but he read
And then he started to talk to us about the beings that lived on the everything he could. He wrote to me and said: This is my
second, and the third, and the fifth planet at Alpha Centauri and experience.
so on and so forth and...
So I checked him out and I slowly drew information out of him
KC: OK. But let’s not get out of order. very, very gradually because I can kind of, I mean, we can kind
of tell now somebody who’s a real whistleblower. A real
BR: Let’s not get out of order. Thank you. OK. While I was whistleblower isn’t somebody who’s just: Hey! I’ve got this
doing this, I had people writing to me. And I had people writing incredible story to tell. Let me tell you all about it.
to me because, in my naiveté, I had presented myself as a kind of
honest everyman who is just doing what I could do to help and I A real whistleblower is somebody who writes to you with two
wasn’t calling myself any alias. I even put a picture myself up lines of enigmatic information to see whether you’re smart
there so they could see that I was real. enough to figure out who they are, you know. That’s actually
how they work, you know.
I just said: Look, I don’t know what’s going on here. I tried to be
as intellectually honest as possible, which is the kind of thing that And we have missed one or two of those, you know, but we
Kerry was talking about in the little interview that I did with her - know we’ve missed them because they wrote to us again and we
it lasted about 10 minutes. didn’t even notice the first e-mail. You know, because you get a
little one-liner saying: Hey, I’d like to talk to you guys. I’ve got
But people started to write to me saying: You know what? I’ve something interesting to tell you. [laughter] You know.
got this incredible story and you sound like the kind of guy who
might believe what I have to say. I haven’t told anybody about And it’s like: OK, what does that mean? Now we pay attention to
this. e-mails like that. OK?
I had a lot of interesting messages from people, many of which I So this guy was waiting in the wings for Camelot, as it were. And
haven’t ever published because they just don’t go anywhere -- he became pretty much our first interviewee, somebody who
just kind of weird anomalous encounters, peculiar experiences, never had spoken to anyone else before on record and here were
funny stories to do with people’s involvement in Black Ops. we doing a sort of Disclosure Project of our own.
There are many of those.
K: OK. So what happened was, he didn’t want to go on camera,
One of these was somebody who said: I had an interesting so that was the beginning. But we ended up meeting him,
assignment. He said: When I was a young man working for an meeting his wife, spending time with them.
aerospace company in southern California...
He was a really stellar individual, and we determined to interview
He said that he was working as a graphic designer for an him. But we figured out that, you know, he wanted his voice
aerospace company that was contracted to the US government, disguised and he wanted his back to the camera. Even later,
398
“Henry Deacon” would not even go on camera or have his voice Obviously, we don’t know if this had an effect. We don’t know if
recorded. his intention riled somebody.
So, in the case of Mr. X, we did do the video and if you’ve been From our perspective and from his, we felt that the fact that he’d
to our site you’ve obviously seen it, hopefully. It was pretty much been involved in an aerospace company over 20 years ago
our first video together, although prior to that I had interviewed - looking at documents -- it was really small potatoes -- that he
because I not only interviewed Bill - I was interviewing Rich would not be a target. That it was old stuff... and who could back
Dolan, Stephen Basset, Jim Marrs... it up, because he had no evidence to present. So we always felt
that he was sort of under the wire as far as being a target.
BR: Bill Hamilton.
Obviously we live on. He’s around. He’s gonna communicate,
KC: ...and Bill Hamilton as part of my UFO documentary that I I’m sure, with us as a group because we all kind of incarnate as
was putting together. And Bill Hamilton is a witness who is groups, as many of you may know.
absolutely fascinating. He’s one of the early... we did put him on
our Camelot interviews and he’s got numerous stories to tell. If So, you know, each of us has a mission and he certainly fulfilled
you’re familiar with the field, you know that he’s a very well- his. He was a wonderful loving soul and we want to pay tribute to
respected researcher who goes back a long way. him here at this conference by stating just that. So that’s it.
I would encourage you, if you haven’t seen his interview, that Now, one thing I want to say here, for anyone who has not been
you really ought to. He’s got some stories about calling in UFO to our website -- I’m assuming most people have, but we just
craft before Steven Greer ever thought of it. And also encounters never know -- our mission is that we wanted to connect with
with, I guess you might say Men-in-Black, who came to visit truth-tellers and whistleblowers and researchers in the field of...
him, and so on. He’s met some of the most amazing characters
and researchers in the UFO field way back, going way, way, way You know, just across the board, anything to do with the old
back. paradigm and converting into the new paradigm that would have
to do with things like free energy... I mean, almost nothing is off
BR: Tell them happened to Mr. X. base for us, you know.
KC: Mr. X, unfortunately, recently, very recently, has died. He We’ll go into the health field with health professionals; UFO
died unexpectedly. We don’t know the cause. We were told... We researchers, with conspiracies, with government. We’ve
were called by his wife. She was in a state. interviewed people who have worked in black projects,
obviously.
By the way, one of the things that Mr. X did was, he did a recent
audio interview. He was beginning to get braver. And we are also interviewing people that are channeling.
Certainly George is channeling. Channeling is a big aspect of the
We were just speaking at the Crash Retrieval Conference in witnesses that we’ve interviewed. It’s something that hasn’t been
Vegas about a month ago, and for that conference he did a short talked about much, but it’s something we’re going into more in
audio interview with me, or both of us, but it’s my voice you hear the future. It’s an important aspect. There’s remote viewing. So
on the audio. And he was using his own voice. He was coming we really cover a huge gamut.
out slowly but surely a little bit more.
BR: Yeah. We’ve been called “The 7-Eleven of the internet
He kept his wife and his family separate from this. She is a lovely conspiracy movement”, [laughter] in the sense that we have
person. She’s quite aware, spiritually, and yet he felt great become a one-stop-shop where you can actually go and you can
resistance from her. She has a lot of fear. And so he never quite find out everything you need to find out, or want to find out,
involved her, in sort of, some of the things he was doing online, without actually having to go anywhere else.
sharing stories with people, becoming braver as time went on.
And just as a moment of levity -- this might even apply to some
At any rate, he died of a sudden heart attack. All of a sudden he, of you here. We’ve had e-mails blaming us for a number of lost
in the middle of the night... It was around Christmas, right before weekends that people have experienced when they’ve got drawn
Christmas, I think. He was supposed to go shopping. He so deeply into our stuff that they couldn’t get out of it. [laughs]
developed a headache. He then took a couple aspirin. He went
shopping anyway. It’s become huge. We’ve got 150 hours of videos there,
approximately. Everything is being transcribed. Some of it is
At three o’clock in the morning he woke up. He felt very unwell. being putting into other languages. We’ve got audio versions.
She took him to the hospital. By 12:45 the following day, he had We’ve done reports of our own, and there’s a whole bunch of
passed on. stuff that we haven’t even talked about yet.
We don’t know if it was a targeted hit. We have not wanted to So, it’s really grown arms and legs, but we do get people writing
upset his wife by probing overtly into the matter. However we do to us. And please forgive this apparent self-promotion, but it is
have some suspicions in this regard, as The Powers That Be are really for the benefit of anyone here who is now coming up to
very good at this sort of thing. speed with what it is that we’re talking about here, that we think,
and we have been told, that we do have paradigm-changing
Unbeknownst to most people, he was thinking of going on Coast. information on our site.
And no one knows this except us and a few, maybe, close friends.
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As I was saying earlier, this was never something that we else in life, first of all you tell the truth, then you say: OK. This is
deliberately set out to do, but it seems to have come that way it. Now what do I do? See, it starts from there.
exactly for the reasons that Kerry just stated, that we are
reporting information from so many different sources that, KC: Right. So we basically are willing to tell you the truth about
paradoxically and really interestingly, only the Black Ops guys what’s really going on and we have found that people have
would really connect all this together. different tolerances. We do understand this. We have also been
labeled “negative” and this and that because we do tell the truth.
In other words, what has got consciousness to do with energy? To
do with multi-dimensional travel? To do with ET contact? To do What has been going on around us -- and it was depicted best, I
with possible health benefits that have been withheld from us? think, in The Matrix movie -- is that everyone is in a matrix. Most
All of this stuff is connected and The Powers That Be know this. people don’t want to wake up from the matrix. We’re all about
waking people up, so that’s kind of our mission.
The real thing that stitches everything we’ve done together is that
what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to set you free, as it were, Once you get awakened, absolutely you want to do something
with the truth that has been withheld from you. about it. We are big proponents of encouraging people to do that
on a consciousness level as well on a practical level.
The reason why this truth has been withheld from you is that
there are people there who do not want you to be free. That’s the We created a new website called Project Avalon,
other side of the coin. And so, we’re trying to reverse this. projectavalon.net. For those of you who haven’t been there, that
has a forum where people are connecting even as we speak,
I really loved Brian’s bumper-sticker reference yesterday creating safe places to go to as a result of some of the things
morning when he said: The truth will set you free but first of all they’ve learned, because that’s their choice.
it’ll piss you off. [laughter]
On the other hand, some are just building communities right
I’d actually make an even bigger bumper-sticker than that and where they live now. They’re just making connections, and that
say: First of all it’ll freak you out, and then it’ll piss you off, and was our intention that they would do that all around the world.
then it’ll set you free. [laughter] And I’m going to put that on the It’s very, very inspiring that it’s actually happening.
site, with Brian’s kind permission, because that’s so beautiful.
It’s so true. On top of that, Project Avalon does contain all kinds of
information. We are cataloging and gathering, as I speak, things
We get communications all the time from people who tell us about how to build a safe house, where to go in the world, what’s
basically what stage in this evolution, in this progression, that safe, comparing notes on that, different soil conservation, water --
they’re in, whether they’re freaked out, whether they’re pissed you name it. OK?
off, or whether they’re feeling liberated by it. [laughter] You
know? So this is just a very quick reminder to tell you that we have been
making plans and helping others to start to make plans to create
We hear from people who say: You know what? I was freaked out something new in the wake of what is now becoming a
last week but now I’ve read a lot more of your stuff and now I’m destruction of the old paradigm.
cool. So what can I do about it?
Therefore, we want to encourage you and let you know that
And this is, of course, the next thing that we’re going to talk everything that happens here at this conference, any skill-sets,
about, we’re going to go on to talk about later on this afternoon, any information that you want to share, you can take it to our
is What can we do? forum, number one; and also submit it just as research material if
you’re experts in certain areas.
This was brought out very well, I think, in the dialogue that we
had yesterday with George Green. It’s like: OK, now I’m freaked We’re gonna make all of that available there and we can certainly
out. You know. What do I do now about it? You know. Is it all set up a section on Vilcabamba in particular, if that’s what would
about saving myself? What is it? You know? What do we do be wanted.
now? What do we do with this information?
So from here we can actually dig deeper into our witnesses, but I
And this is something that we want to talk about a little later on want to find out where we are in time. [brief side discussion]
because we are very solution-oriented. We’re not trying to freak
people out, but the truth is where you have to start. OK. So what we’re going to do now is an overview of what we
call The Big Picture.
If you’re lost in a jungle, or even if you’re lost in the streets of
New York and you want to get somewhere else, you have to And this is the other thing that we want to say, is that each
know where you are in order to start beginning that journey. witness has a piece of the puzzle and we, unlike some people that
do interviews - and there are other sites out there - we’re not just
You have to know where you are, even if you don’t like finding gathering, you know, random interviews about this subject matter
out where you are. It’s like: You know what? The truth is that I’m and piling them all into a big bundle.
here.
We actually are on, if you will, a trail, on a mystery. We are
That applies metaphorically. If any of you have come across collecting specific testimony that leads to a certain place, and
difficult situations that you’ve suddenly encountered in that’s with an intention to reveal the entire Big Picture in one
relationships or in your business or with your family or anywhere place.
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And Kerry [laughs] came back to the car in a state of deep

This is actually where the power resides -- not in knowing just a distress. She had 300,000 Kenyan shillings that she got from this
piece of the puzzle, but knowing the whole Big Picture. ATM.
I have to say that the journey isn’t over, that we feel that we’ve KC: Right, from the ATM. [laughs]
covered a great deal of the Big Picture, some of it maybe very
superficially. The deeper we could go, the happier we’d be, but BR: From this ATM! [laughs] It’s like, you know: What’s this
we have been stopped at different intervals and we’re going to zero? You know. Anyway.
talk about that.
KC: I have to say that the money started pouring out [laughs]
We’ve also had our own “anomalous occurrences”. I won’t call and I thought I’d basically cleaned out the bank because they just
them overt threats. That hasn’t happened, you know, exactly kept coming and I was just... [laughter] I couldn’t believe it.
[laughs] but we will describe that as well. And we’re going to
have a huge question and answer session as well for all of this. BR: I couldn’t believe it either. [laughter continues] But it didn’t
matter because a Kenyan shilling, as you’ve probably gathered,
I do want to say that one of our witnesses is here, besides George isn’t very valuable and we were able to change it back and all this
Green who was here yesterday, that we’ve interviewed. Her kind of stuff.
name, as all of you will know, is Miriam Delicado and we’re
very, very pleased that she was able to come. But since then I’m the guy who handles the zeros. You know,
meaning that I’m the guy who takes care of the numbers and the
And we want to do a special thanks - why not now? -- to Kay math and the physics and I think Brian... This will probably make
Shepard and Perry Shepard for making this possible. Kay is a real Brian laugh.
mover and shaker and if it wasn’t for Kay we would not be here
today, because we have actually ran out of funds [laughs] for BO’L: That’s true of us too.
financing Camelot which is also financed up until now, except
for some donations, for the past year. So, it’s because of Kay that BR: I’m not surprised. And it’s great. And it’s part of the
we’re here. And we want to give her a great nod of thanks. dynamic that makes a great team, actually, you know. Because
[applause] when Kerry’s got her head way up there in places where I can’t
even see, I’ve got my feet fairly close to the ground.
And so, now what we’d like to do is... Bill is the best at facts and
figures. He’s the physics major. [laughs] He’s the one who can KC: Right.
do this the best. So he will give you an overview of, kind of, The
Big Picture, and then we’ll do lunch and after that we’ll drill BR: We’re kind of connected by some kind of a cord most of the
down deeper. time and that helps to keep things in balance.
BR: [laughs] Yeah. I’m the math and the physics guy. One of the So, having said that, now I want to tell you some pretty weird
first experiences I had with Kerry was when we had dinner information, because things started to come at us pretty thick and
together after our interview in Laughlin. Kerry was kind enough fast very soon after Kerry’s interview with Bill Hamilton, which
to pick up the tab for that dinner, a wonderful Mexican dinner. she was talking about just now, which was back in 2006.
And when she was given the bill, the check at the end of it, I saw Bill Hamilton, as some of you may know, is one of the people
her, you know, with furrowed brow trying to figure this out. She who was responsible for, to his great credit, for publicizing the
was just about to give this guy a $200 tip on her credit card, and I story of Dan Burisch.
said: Wait a minute. You’ve got a couple of extra zeros on there.
[laughs] Voice: Wow.
Since then we’ve had a running joke about Kerry doesn’t do BR: And way back in 2002 when, like you guys, I was busy
zeros, you know. [laughter] It’s like, you know: Is Quito 100 collecting, privately and quietly, all the information I possibly
miles? 1000 miles? You don’t know, you know. But that’s OK could about everything that I could – and, you know, before that
because I can handle that. [laughter] I’d read Timothy Good’s Above Top Secret.
There’s a very funny story as well in Nairobi, Kenya, where we And before that I was reading, in 1988, and thinking: Wow,
were when we went off, just before we were filming the cheetah. supposing all this is true. And before that I’d had my own ET
And we needed a cup of coffee. [to Kerry] Do you mind if I tell experiences, as probably many of you know.
this story?
But when Bill Hamilton published his own interview with Dan
KC: No. That’s fine. [laughter] Burisch back in 2002, I saw that on the internet and something
really hit me hard. I thought: This is amazing. This man is telling
BR: We needed a cup of coffee. This is the afternoon before we a detailed and complex story about time-traveling future humans
were about to go to Nairobi Airport to get the plane. And I said: and some possible problem that is trying to be handled by these
Hey, you know, we need to go... We need this and we need that. guys, all behind the scenes, and he’s trying to tell this story.
We probably need maybe, you know, 3,000 Kenyan shillings or
something, you know. I saw this video that Bill Hamilton had shot, and an interview that
he had done with Dan Burisch back in 2002, and it impressed the
heck out of me.
401
So we’re actually aware at this point that The Big Picture points
And I just found myself thinking... Well, first of all, what I did is somewhere, and that these aliens that were coming here had a
I e-mailed him and I was saying, You know what, you need to see mission.
this because there’s something really special going on here. I
couldn’t get it out of my mind. They were here because they wanted to prevent catastrophe -- a
catastrophe that had happened in the past and that resulted in
And as with many of the people who have subsequently spoken what, according to Dan Burisch, was the splitting of the human
to him and have been privileged enough now to even count as race into various factions that then took off, some of which went
friends, I found myself, you know [thinking]: I’d love to just to underground, some took off for other planets. [to Bill] And
be able to go up to this guy in a conference and just say hi, but maybe you can carry it on from there.
it’ll never happen. You know, gee whiz. These people are out
there. BR: Yeah. The essence of Dan Burisch’s information was that,
just as Kerry said, there were various groups of future humans
I mean, of course since then things have moved along quite a lot with different future lineages who had encountered a catastrophe
and we’re proud to consider Dan one of our personal friends. And in their history and that, prompted by what seems to be the
we can talk to you a lot about some of the things that he has altruistic intentions of a group, which in Dan Burisch’s shorthand
shared with us. he calls the P52Ks -- P52s refers to “Present plus 52,000 years”.
These guys, said Dan, were from 52,000 years in the future.
When we interviewed him... I mean, the first thing that happened
was we immediately realized, we immediately both realized, that Some of them, one of the groups, the group that was responsible
this guy -- who’s being disparaged all over the internet -- we for initiating the retrospective time-traveling intervention
found him to be kind, brilliant, sensitive, witty, very humble, and attempt, were human-looking, were very spiritual, were very
clearly possessing a huge depth of knowledge about some well-intentioned towards us, were being very careful in their
experiences that he had, some of which were deeply troubling to approaches. And he regarded them, as best he knew from his own
him to integrate. self-confessed limited information, as Nordics.
We got this very, very quickly -- this guy is absolutely rock-solid Now, there may be many Nordic races, and the whole thing is a
in his testimony. We were very, very privileged at a very early huge complexity. We later on had testimony from witnesses such
stage to be able to release a three-part video with Dan Burisch as Clifford Stone and others and just as... I think it was George
that we did. And I think it was August... was it August 2006? yesterday made reference to them - many, many, many different
Somewhere about there. races. And the whole thing is incredibly complicated.
His story, for those of you who don’t know it... I mean, we can So, the summary of that story is that Dan Burisch was reporting
go into this in a little bit more detail later because it’s one of the from his first-hand experience working as a microbiologist in S-4
threads, one of the main threads, in the whole tapestry that we of Area 51, when he had the personal encounters with one of
later came to call The Big Picture. Which is like, what is this all these beings -- not one of the Nordic beings, but one of the other
about? What is it that makes this time special? What is it that’s guys who had a degenerate genome.
going on? What is the ET connection? Why is it that all of this is
so complicated and so secret? Whether the genome degenerates or not in this future timeline
depended on whether you go underground to avoid the
Those of you who were here yesterday would have remembered catastrophe, or whether you leave the planet to avoid the
my contribution when we were sitting talking, the four of us, at catastrophe.
the end of the day, talking about what Bill Birnes had said about
his own conversation with Admiral George Hoover from the The guys who left the planet straight off ended up in good shape.
Office of Navel Intelligence, before George Hoover died. The guys who stayed underground for a while did not. And that’s
quite interesting.
George Hoover, who Bill Birnes described as “the Philip Corso
of the Navy”, said that one of the big secrets was that the Roswell Now, of course, what we see is... We do see a sort of what I
visitors back in 1947, that they weren’t little bug-eyed aliens would call a vector, what I would call... It looks like the same
from another planet -- they were us from the future. They were sorts of things are happening. There seems to be some kind of
time-traveling future humans. instinct for The Powers That Be to tunnel underground when they
feel danger coming.
This is really the start of the complex web of problems, entangled
problems, that the American government and other governments According to the future humans’ testimony, that might not be
have been grappling with ever since and have chosen, for such a smart thing to do. And we’ve got some really interesting
whatever reasons, not to tell us about because they didn’t think testimony about that which we’ll report on later on this afternoon
that we could handle the truth. from our most recent witness who we’re calling “Jake Simpson”.
KC: Well, actually I have to say that the reason that there is a We’ll close off in just one or two minutes... because this
Big Picture, and the reason of where we’re going with all of this, information from Dan Burisch was so fantastical it left us with a
is obviously in the direction of 2012, these few years that we’re sort of conflict. It’s like: Could this really be true?
in now, and beyond, going up until what we understand may be
around 2017 and further. And yet this guy was absolutely straight out. We spent a lot of
time with him on and off camera and we felt that we believed his
402
information although it was impossible to believe. And we also KC: OK. Yeah. Absolutely, very close. I just want to say that the
felt that this guy was absolutely credible in terms of his sincerity. catastrophe, according to Dan Burisch, may have been averted.
He had a device called the Looking Glass that we’ll talk more
Later on, just a few weeks after that, we met another guy who has about.
become very, very central in the Camelot timeline, as it were. We
called him “Henry Deacon”, which was named after the brilliant We’ve done subsequent interviews with him, had subsequent
polymath in the TV series, Eureka. meetings with him and his sort of side-kick, Marci McDowell,
who is a known operative from MJ12 -- what is no longer called
Henry Deacon is an electronics engineer, highly qualified, MJ12, but definitely the organization exists. Dan was also
multidisciplinary, brilliant man, very spiritual, very anguished. working for MJ12. That’s another important note.
Because it’s quite hard to go through these experiences these
people go through -- whether you’re a Black Ops insider like So, the story’s complex. Elements of disinformation may exist
Henry, whether you’re Dan working with an alien in Area 51, or within it. I wouldn’t question that. Where they exist is another
whether you’re George working with the bankers, or even matter and it’s a huge puzzle, as I said, to put all together. But it’s
whether you’re Brian with the experiences that you’ve had. important to just have the caveat that the catastrophe, as seen in
Looking Glass, that there are elements of it which appear to have
It’s hard to emerge from all of this without scars and things that been mitigated at this time.
you think about deeply late at night sometimes, you know. And
we need to understand these guys and the compassion that they [LUNCH BREAK – VIDEO BREAK]
require in order to understand their experiences. We mortals are
not necessarily well equipped to understand what they’ve been BR: So, what happened just before the break, before lunch, is
through. that we ran out of camera tape just as I was trying to come to my
punchline. So I’m just going to repeat that, because actually it’s
But Henry had the courage to talk to us -- in a very noisy Pizza quite an important little note for people to ponder on.
Hut, with his cell phone battery removed from his cell phone.
That was the first time that we’d heard that that was a smart thing Just to recap, where we were at was talking about this whole
to do. complex issue of alternative, uncertain, un-predetermined,
potential future timelines and the future humans’ concerns about
He knew a whole bunch of stuff. And he started telling us things that - and the governments and the militaries of the world’s
that sounded a little bit like what Dan was saying. He was concerns about that once they first became aware of the potential
starting talking about time travel, and he started talking about a problems, probably back as early as the Second World War, so
catastrophe, and he started talking about some of the things that we have been told.
he knew. And we said to him: Look, this sounds like Dan
Burisch’s story. And he didn’t know who Dan Burisch was. To illustrate that point, I had mentioned that we have been told
by our most recent witness, Jake Simpson, who’s been on our
Now, we said to him -- and we’ll talk about Henry’s testimony website for the last 48 hours or so, and this was... He’s told us so
after lunch. He has a whole bunch of stuff to report. He’s been to much stuff that all the time we’re remembering things that we
Mars. He’s been to the Mars base. OK? We’ll tell you about that. hadn’t included in our little report.
But what we asked Henry to do, we said: Look, go and listen, or One of these things is just a little offhand remark. He said:
go and watch our video with Dan, and tell us what you think. There’s a NASA satellite which has recently been launched with a
trillion dollars-worth of equipment on it.
He got back to us three weeks later saying: Dan Burisch is telling
the whole truth, timelines and all. OK? That’s a lot of money to put in a satellite. You ask anyone from
Wall Street. Even Kerry knows that’s a lot of zeros. [to Kerry] I
That was a really important independent corroboration for us that had to do that for the camera. It’s a joke. [laughter]
there’s something very real, very important, and that this is one
of the biggest secrets, that there’s a complexity of possible future Now, this guy knows how much a trillion dollars is. It wasn’t a
timelines which The Powers That Be are trying to get information throw-away remark. A trillion is a trillion; and a billion is a
about, are trying to manipulate. billion, you know. This is a trillion.
There are push-me / pull-you factions. Some of them are actually The point is that The Powers That Be don’t put a trillion dollars-
trying to steer us right into the wreck. There are others who are worth of stuff in space, that’s going to burn up into nothing when
trying to avoid it. it eventually re-enters the atmosphere, if they knew what was
going to come. You spend a trillion dollars on a piece of
And we’ve got a whole bunch of ETs who are standing by, some equipment up there when you don’t know what’s going to
of whom are trying to help, some of whom are watching, and happen.
some of whom are trying to take advantage of the situation by
picking up the resources when it’s all over. And if they don’t know what’s going to happen, we don’t know
what’s going to happen and that means that the game is uncertain,
Henry told us a whole bunch of stuff about this, which I think un-predetermined, and therefore open to be affected by ourselves
we’ll go on to talk about after lunch. [to Kerry] That feels like a if we so wish.
pre-lunch wrap to me. What do you think?
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Anyone who knows anything about quantum indeterminacy name you want to call them, and basically with Looking Glass,
knows that consciousness is king and this is where the real world and that all bets were then off, as of over a year ago.
of physics interfaces with the world of the esoteric.
Their time-travel technology that is telling the future - which is
I think Brian would be one of the first people in this room to an alien back-engineered device - was basically telling them the
agree that you cannot embark on this string-trail of exploration, probabilities of things that were going to happen. We had a whole
research and discovery – even as a physicist -- if you’re report as to what certain things would be happening and how it
intellectually honest, it will lead you into spiritual realms and would roll out. Dan was telling us these things.
there’s absolutely no escape from that. Would you agree with
that, Brian? One of those things was that Hillary Clinton would be president
and that she would be killed in office. Now, as you know, that
BO’L: That is certainly correct. hasn’t happened. That’s not what the timeline, actually, how it
played out a year later.
BR: Yes.
There are several other things that we were told that were
BO’L: You might want to hold the microphone up a little higher. predicted in Looking Glass that have not transpired. [nodding at
Let’s see. How is that? How is that working? Bill Ryan] And you can add to this.
[BR, B’OL, KC discussion on how to hold the microphone / It was a very important meeting. And it’s very important for you
audience laughter] guys to know about it, because what is happening here is that
you’ve got these scientists, and you know, black project - these
BR: What we needed was a Princeton Ph.D. to straighten this people that are basically into power positions on the planet -
out. [laughter] So the issue here, which we’re going to be talking using special technology to look into the future. And they’re
about for a lot of the rest of the afternoon, is what might happen? actually turning out wrong. OK?
We don’t have any definitive inside information of the nature that That means that there’s something else at work on the planet, and
George Green was saying yesterday. We haven’t got anyone that we’re all a part of it, that’s rolling out in a different way.
saying to us, whether they’re worldly or unworldly, that: You
know what? World War Three is going to start on the 1st of April. Voice: Whoo hoo! [applause]
I don’t know anything that says that World War Three isn’t going BR: Let me drill down a little bit more into what Kerry [said],
to start on the 1st of April, but we’re going to be discussing in an just to summarize. She’s quite right in emphasizing that this is so
open sort of way that things do seem to be changing, that the very important.
future does not seem to be known, and that the push-me / pull-
you sort of tug-of-war between the different influences, both To understand this, to understand the way that The Powers That
planetary and off-planet, is one of the things that is making this Be have been using the power that they gained, probably as early
game uncertain, interesting, and influentiable at the moment. as 1947...
KC: So what we want to do is continue on drilling down with We heard from a couple of sources that one of the things that was
our various witness testimony. And, again, the strength here is retrieved from the Roswell crash was some sort of... ah... Even
not just that we have whistleblower testimony, as well as Henry Deacon couldn’t put this properly into words.
researcher, as well as even channeled information, but that we’re
putting it all together in one place and adding it up. So, you It was like it was... ah... It was a very clever gadget, highly
know, two plus two equals four or five, whatever. So that’s where advanced, which was connected with their ability to navigate in
the strength is in Camelot and that’s what we’re doing here for Time, to control where they were in Time, to know where they
you today. were in Time. And you can use that kind of thing to see what’s
going to happen or has happened.
So, under that heading, what I want to tell you about is that over a
year ago we sat down with Dan and Marci in Las Vegas in a It’s like a sort of, ah... these are my own words here... some sort
private meeting... along with, by the way, and I’m not going to of interdimensional interface between where one happens to be,
name him, but a television producer who wanted to bring our and when one happens to be, and the entire flow of Time that
Project Camelot to the screen as a television show. He was enables one to control and to perceive. Something like that.
working, has been working for the past year to do so.
Now, of course, you need to imagine what happened back in
We originally had a deal with the History Channel. They then 1947 when this interesting gadget was retrieved by a bunch of
decided from some higher-up... about a week later the word came interested Air Force physicists. They start playing with it.
down that right when they’re about to sign a deal with us for a
two-hour pilot show, basically, you know, nixed the deal, and When they start playing with it, you’re really giving... No offence
said no, we would be a threat to their show, UFO Hunters, as if to any individuals here, but it’s part of the human condition, I
they hadn’t thought of that before they made the offer. guess, that if you give human beings a dangerous toy, then
they’re going to start playing with it and they may start doing
So, at any rate, nothing has happened in regard to that. But the some damage with it, just as children would.
interesting thing that went on between Dan and Marci and the
television producer and us was that Dan had come back from an What seems to have happened, as far as we can gather, is that that
intensive time working again with Majestic, under whatever created a major tangle. It created a tangle in timelines that...
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So it becomes like the high-tech version of a crystal ball, where

you get to look and see what’s happening. Except that it’s not
quite as simple as that, because what you see, apparently, or with
the information that is retrieved, comes over, brings hints of
probabilities and possibilities, and the details of that process we
are not given to know.
But in that project... Sorry, let me back up a second there because

this is complex.
The future humans told the American government that the

catastrophe which was in their history -- and this is where this
stuff starts to interface with the whole 2012 mythology and
concern that has been building up over the last few years -- is that
there seems to have been a catastrophe in this timeline, in Dan’s
own words: ’Round about now. OK?
He did not give a date. We don’t know whether it’s going to

happen tomorrow morning, whether it’s going to happen in 2012,
or whether it’s going to happen as late as 2020, or whether it
Even though the future humans were trying to come back to do
doesn’t happen at all on this timeline.
something to help avert this catastrophe, what was unplanned by
them, what made the tangle even worse, was that that
So, there’s something that happened ’round about now in the
intervention attempt immediately went wrong because the craft
future humans’ history, and apparently, according to their
crashed, because of the new high-powered radar they had in
analysis, the reason for this was because the Earth was traveling
White Sands, I think it was based... which is why these disks
through a particular area of energized space.
started crashing in the first place, because they couldn’t actually
interface with the radar.
From memory, I believe that he described this energized space as
containing micro-wormholes, and the man-made Stargates and
The timeline problem then became even more complicated
Looking Glasses caused an amplifying effect on this energy, on
because you were giving the government the ability to see into
this energetic space, and that’s what caused the Earth to wobble.
the future, and to look at possibilities and probabilities of what
That’s what caused the pole shift to happen.
might start to happen, and then that just makes the tangle even
worse.
So, this is all very useful information
It’s extremely hard to lay this out in a kind of comprehensive
KC: Well, actually, you should... [Bill and Kerry tussle for the
paragraph, but you probably get the idea. This is one of the
microphone!] [audience laughter]
secrets that hasn’t been told.
BR: This is extremely important. Thirty seconds.
The reference to the project that happened in the latter half of
2007 is that Dan took a so-called sabbatical. Dan Burisch took a
KC: What I want you to do is talk to them about the different
so-called sabbatical for the best part of six months. I mean he was
kind of shifts. There’s a magnetic and there’s a pole. Explain that.
really out of communication. We didn’t know where he was.
BR: Yeah. Wait. [laughter] This is a reference to the leash, you
On the 10th of December he met with us in Las Vegas. The fact
know.
that this other guy was a TV producer was just incidental. He
happened to be along; he was a friend. He just sat with his jaw on
The important thing to understand here is that the future humans
the floor for five hours as Dan debriefed to us what had been
said that: What you’ve got to do to stop this from happening is
perceived.
you’ve got to dismantle these devices. You’ve got to
decommission these devices.
The purpose of this project that happened back in 2007 was
because the... What had been communicated to the American
All you’ve got to do is, first of all you unplug them, then you turn
government by the future humans was that the man-made
them off, and then to be really safe you split them up into three
Stargate and Looking Glass technology -- which is the same kind
different components and make sure they’re stored up with
of stuff -- it involves...
different military organizations in different parts of the world.
A Stargate is a stargate, as anyone knows who’s been watching
OK. Apparently this was done. And then the reason why they
TV. It’s something that you can step through and you end up in a
went into this project in the latter half of 2007 is, once you’ve
different place or a different time. It enables one to travel. We’ll
done all that, once you’ve decommissioned these devices, then
talk a little bit more about that later, because this technology does
it’s like: Well, now what? Has this worked? We don’t know.
exist.
We’ve got to take another look. [laughter]
A Looking Glass is the colloquial name given to the same device
They did take another look. They took another look using a
used just simply as a way to look through it and see what’s on the
different kind of technology that they have for looking into the
other side. You don’t need to travel; you just take a look.
future. What they found was something which they evaluated as
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the most probable timeline - was something which was labeled to say: Hey, I love your site. He’s on the internet, and I paid very
Timeline 1, Variant 83. And that’s really interesting. close attention once I realized that this guy’s writing to us.
KC: OK, but you didn’t tell them... I’m not really good at I said to him, very much on impulse: You probably know
physics, so this is why I wanted you to explain to them... something which might be of interest to us and our visitors to our
website. Is there anything about what’s going to happen in the
BR: OK. next few years that you would like us to know?
KC: ...about the magnetic... See, because what happens is, He said: Yes. He said: I’m limited about what I can say but... I
there’s different levels of catastrophe. If you have a pole shift, or don’t like to be the bearer of bad news, but we’re going to have a
a magnetic pole shift, it does different things to the planet. And very tough time.
this is where it gets into how many humans are eliminated in the
process. This is really quite significant because he didn’t... he wasn’t
trying to feed us a disinformation. He was just somebody who
BR: OK. Yeah, right on. [laughter] Our apologies for that. This said: Hey, I like your site. We could easily not have picked up on
happens all the time, by the way, when I’m off camera. And the this. I just happened to notice it and I figured out that this is the
reason for this is because this is not a linear story, you see. It’s man, so I asked him.
not like saying: OK, this is what happened on my holidays. This
is day one, and this is day two. And he said: I hate to be the bearer of bad news. There are three
things that are going to be happening in the next few years.
This goes everywhere. It’s not a linear story. Everything connects
with everything else. And this is of course exactly the problem He said the first thing is there’s going to be a coronal mass
that George Green had in telling his story yesterday. It doesn’t go ejection [CME], and he referenced -- and this is a little bit of
in a straight line. homework for all you guys to do -- he referenced the event of
1859. Go look it up. Quite interesting.
Now. OK. So we bookmark that and we’ll go back to that in just
a moment. What Kerry was referring to there is the difference Huge solar storms all over the world. If there had been any kind
between a physical pole shift and a magnetic pole reversal. These of electro-magnetic grid in 1859, it would have been wiped out.
are two different things. OK? But it wasn’t. They just had auroral displays as far north and
south as the equator, spectacular sunsets for two or three days,
One way to illustrate that, actually, is to refer to a piece of and everyone said: Wow, look at the colors in that sky. That’s
testimony that we received from somebody who was really in a incredible.
position to know, which we’ve never publicized.
OK. So coronal mass ejections are when the sun has a hissy fit
We’ve talked about it, but we haven’t put it on our site because and it kind of throws something at the Earth that interacts with
there wasn’t enough information to make it a kind of big deal. It the magnetosphere, ionized particles hitting the atmosphere, all
was just another piece of the puzzle that fits with everything else. kinds of stuff going on up there. Nowadays, that would be really
And this happened... bad news if that happened. He did not say how he knew.
Do you remember what I said just before lunch? I said that the This is really interesting to the physicists amongst you, because
most interesting e-mails we get are the ones that are just one line. you know that the sun randomly ejects all kinds of stuff in any
We got an email from somebody who said: Great site. I love your random direction. It’s a little bit like a cowboy shooting off a six-
work. Keep it up, and then signed it with his name. shooter, spinning wildly around in circles, and kind of firing
randomly all around him.
And I thought: Wait a minute. I know that name. But it was a
common name. It wasn’t like... it wasn’t such a complicated If the Earth happens to be in the way, then that’s bad news, but it
name that you would figure out that this could only be the one probably wouldn’t be in the way. He said this was going to
person. There are probably a number of people called Brian happen. We don’t know how he knew. OK?
O’Leary, for example. It’s not that uncommon.
That was event number one. He said this would start in 2009.
And so if this person, Brian O’Leary -- it wasn’t Brian, you know OK? Here we are, January the 11th -- Boriska’s birthday, by the
– who... It’s like: Are you that Brian O’Leary? Are you that... are way. I forgot to mention that. That’s an aside.
you the person I think you are?
Voice: Who was it?
He wrote back and said: Yes. I am. And anybody could have said
that, but we checked out the email address and the IP address and BR: Boriska.
all that kind of stuff and this was the man.
KC: Let’s go into that later.
This guy was somebody who is a brilliant scientist, whose name
would be known to half of the people in this room, somebody BR: Boriska Kipriyanovich, the indigo child. OK.
who Brian probably knows, and we can tell him in private.
Then he said there would be a magnetic pole reversal, a magnetic
And we felt that we should never actually release his name pole reversal which is already underway. He stated this in such a
because that wasn’t what he was trying to do. He was just trying way that it would be significantly important for us to understand
why.
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couldn’t say anything more. And that is the last, I believe... We

Later on -- and this is just a footnote to that -- Henry Deacon, our wrote back to him, obviously, and that’s the last we heard from
physicist Black Ops insider source, helped us to understand that him.
as far as he was aware, the shifting magnetic field in the Earth is
something that affects consciousness. Now, this is happening at the same time that we’re getting the
information from Dan Burisch. So you see how - and Henry
We are all electrical beings. We are souls in electrical bodies that Deacon. And so, as we pull these threads together, these people,
are dependant upon the neurological bio-electric activity of the coming from completely different directions with completely
brain and the body in order to function well. different motivations, are coming to us with the same story.
If you’ve got something so profound as the Earth’s magnetic field BR: Right.
that starts doing weird things, then human beings are going to
start doing weird things, too. And so are dolphins, and so are KC: So now tell them what Dan told us.
whales, and so are all kinds of animals all over the world.
BR: Exactly. Our source did finally... he apologized for not
Henry said: Have you noticed that in the last 10, 15 years, there’s being able to say more. He said that we were the first people he’d
been increasing conflict? More people are misunderstanding communicated with outside the national security community for a
each other. There are more people who seem to be going crazy. number of years. We took that as a great compliment; it was a
There are more people who seem to be behaving in irrational, risk that he was taking on his own part. He said as much as he
strange ways, not connecting with each other. could.
He said this has all got to do with the change in the Earth’s Going back to what Dan said. Now, this guy communicated with
magnetic field. And that – suddenly it did a big click with me us... from memory, it was ’round... it was in the middle of Dan’s
personally. I thought: Now I understand. OK? project. It was around about the middle of 2007.
But a magnetic pole reversal isn’t going to... it isn’t necessarily Some of the whistleblowers who speak to us don’t have up-to-
going to spoil your whole day. It’s happening already, as best I date information. Where they hear it... they have their own
understand. Brian could probably help us understand this better grapevines, they have their own rumor-mills. They don’t
when we talk to him tomorrow about all this. necessarily come straight from a briefing that they had that
morning. OK? So it’s not necessarily up-to-date information.
Then the third event, he said, was the big one. He said, third,
finally there would be a pole shift. Just to backtrack to where we were with Dan and the story of
these man-made Stargates and Looking Glasses needing to be
Voice: A pole shift? decommissioned, because that was what was going to cause the
catastrophe; and then: Wait a minute. We’ve got to check to see
BR: A pole shift. A pole shift is a physical pole shift. A pole whether this has worked; and then they took another look using
shift is when the Earth was like that [indicating upright with his an alien device.
hand] and it goes, boomf, like that [rotates his hand]. It suddenly
shifts. What they saw was that the most probable timeline was the
following: Now, in terms of nomenclature, the catastrophic
Any geologist will tell you this has happened many times before. timeline which the future humans reported that they had
Most of you know what this is. It’s a physical shift in the experienced was known as Timeline 2. I don’t know why it
orientation of the Earth relative to its rotation around the sun. wasn’t called Timeline 1, but it was called Timeline 2. OK?
KC: But it causes things like tsunamis, continents shifting, going Timeline 1 is the other one when that doesn’t happen. OK? So:
under the water. Atlantis, for example - pole shift. And what it’s I’ll be on Timeline 1 or I’ll be on Timeline 2 is as important as
caused by, I’m not sure that they know. knowing whether you’re heading north or you’re heading south.
It’s a pretty important distinction to make.
But, among other things, the interesting thing that is happening
here is that we’re telling you about a scientist who is highly, The first thing that they established in that Time Portal
highly respected. OK? And who has suddenly been -- he told us Intelligence Probe, which I think is what Dan called it formally,
this much -- asked to come on board to work for, of all places, is that we’re on Timeline 1. That’s the good news. OK? The
Homeland Security. catastrophe he reported had been averted. We’re on Timeline 1.
Voice: Ooh. And so, once you figure out there’s not going to be a catastrophe,
the next question for a curious scientist is: Well, OK. What is
KC: This is a man who is published on the web, who was going to happen, then? OK? And then this is the Variant 83 part,
clearly, actually, sort of anti-government, was something of a when they started to drill down into the detail about what would
rebel in his own right; again, still maintained his respectability be happening in the next few years.
because of the level of scientist that he was, or is. So it was very
valuable that he would even come back on an email like that, KC: But I want to say that, interestingly... And this is on our site,
revealing that much. most of this information, so you don’t need to be taking notes,
and we will be taping this as well for release. Dan said...
All he did was list three things that were gonna happen, the fact
that he worked for Homeland Security, and the fact that he
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We were in an interview with him at one point and we said: OK. happening last October, you know. Everything happened. We
That’s great. And then he said: But there’s no free lunch. And were all watching it, you know.
then he proceeded to tell us what that meant.
Something that we have already spoken about publicly is that our
Basically, Timeline 1, Variant 83 contained things like nuclear guy, Henry Deacon... at the end of September he told us that he
war and, you know, other fairly dire predictions, among which, as had received a telephone call. He said he’s never received a
I said, Hillary was in office, was going to die in office. He had telephone call like this in his life. He was asked to report for duty
highly respected her. in the Middle East the next morning. OK?
I have to back up. There’s one other part that you guys need to He said he was almost ordered to do it, except they couldn’t
know, which is about the Yellow Book, the technology [that] actually order him to. He was asked in a way that he almost could
allows the world leaders to see their own future and then plot not refuse.
their lives accordingly, to the best version of that future. That is
part of the reason why they are highly successful and remain so, The rate of pay was $800 an hour, without overtime. OK? And
because they’re actually cheating. that’s a very great amount of money. Even in that field, it’s quite
a lot of money. He turned it down, to his very great credit. He
In regards to Hillary, what Dan said is that she was one of the said: I don’t want any part of this. He was never told why he was
people that had access to this technology, was given the Yellow asked to report for duty in the Middle East.
Book and looked into her future and saw that she was going to be
assassinated in office. She was, he said -- this is his story -- Why? We don’t know. Nothing’s happened in the Middle East
willing to go into office knowing that she would be assassinated yet, except that something seems to be cranking up. Whether that
and therefore she had garnered his respect. And this was, you fire is going to burn out on its own, or whether it’s going to crank
know, back over a year ago. up into something much bigger, we don’t know. This is the
conversation we had yesterday.
BR: Now, it’s now the 11th of January and Obama’s
inauguration is in nine days’ time. So it’s a pretty safe bet to KC: OK. But we have had whistleblower testimony that we have
conclude that, wherever we are at the moment, we’re not on not been able to release in total - some of which we did release -
Variant 83. That hasn’t happened. This is the good news. OK? from a witness who supposedly was in close communication with
This is more good news. the Illuminati, who was saying that their agenda was rolling out
just as planned and that he was basically going underground and
And it’s more good news in the sense that that package of would not be able to communicate further. We’ve been talking
information that was called Variant 83 that was evaluated as back and forth with this man for over a year.
being the most probable future visible at that time... it did contain
bad news. It did contain a war against Iran that was predicted to I have to tell you also that he was basically saying, you know, the
start in October, last October. OK? That didn’t happen. dire, somewhat dire agenda, depending on how you want to look
at it, which includes things like elimination of the population that
There was a nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan. The George was talking about...
jury’s out. OK?
Most everything that George enumerated yesterday was going
There would be a financial collapse that was triggered in that along and that it was absolutely - it may be behind schedule - but
timeline by the Iran war. Well, the financial collapse is probably that it was shortly to sort of ratchet up.
planned anyway. OK? Set off. It’s a kind of controlled demolition
of the economy which was set in place long before, which most On top of that, we have had other whistleblowers from behind the
of the people here know about, which George already spoke scenes coming forward saying things are on schedule.
about extensively yesterday.
We also have someone who we’ve been in communication with
And he said that this war that was seen, it would last through for over... possibly even as much as two years, who is a good
until 2010. Russia and China would become involved, and it was friend of Alex Collier, and he has been telling us about his
all pretty bad news. And, you know, based on that reality, information that he has from some NSA sources, that has
Vilcabamba sounds like a pretty good place to be, and we’re basically geared him up to building an underground base in an
actually marching in step with what George said. undisclosed location.
But! Hillary is not the president. The war with Iran did not He has told us about the Queen of England who has now got an
happen in October. We are not on that timeline. And if we’re not underground base being built in part of Colorado. So there are...
on that timeline, it means that we don’t know what’s going to
happen next. We do not know. It is not known. We haven’t BR: [sotto voce comment to Kerry]
spoken to anyone who does know.
KC: And he’s also a very wealthy man. I can’t tell you how he
And if I had been a betting man, I would have placed quite a lot made his money because that’s a highly controversial matter. But
of money, in a black kind of way, as it were... (Maybe this he basically said that he knew when the banks were gonna go on
doesn’t sound too good, actually. This is unethical, I think!) bank holiday as George does. And he’s been in constant contact
with us.
We had so many parallel information points that, in terms of
data-clustering on a graph, everything pointed to something What’s interesting in all this mix is that some of these people
coming forward seem to all be agreeing on, at least, the agenda.
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Some of the Majestic 12 are absolutely part of the Illuminati and

We haven’t talked about Bill Deagle. Bill Deagle is somebody they do want to see these things happen.
who is highly controversial, who’s a doctor, a medical doctor,
who’s on the web. You may know of him. You may have seen So you’ve got fighting in the ranks and the fact that we’re up here
our interview with him. telling you all this is testimony to the fact -- if you talk to Jake
Simpson, if you talk to Dan Burisch -- that we have people or
People, you know, ranted and raved at us for having interviewed friends in high places that are allowing us to do so because
him, because they felt he’s too negative; they didn’t want to hear they’re actually White Hats. So it’s a really important ingredient
it; they think he could possibly be programmed. in all of what we’re saying.
He’s been given testimony from other whistleblowers that we BR: I think this... I’m just kind of taking pause to think where
haven’t - as their doctor, in working in black projects - that we should go next with this at the moment. Shall we go into Jake
outline, you know, a laundry list of their plans and their agenda, Simpson?
just as George has been telling you. It involves eliminating the
population, using viruses to do so, and, you know, when, where, KC: That sounds good.
how, and so on.
BR: OK. Jake Simpson was somebody who we met on our long,
He’s also highly intuitive and feels he has channeled information month-long there-and-back Australia trip, when we were invited
that tells him certain things, one of which was October, that to speak at the NEXUS conference in Brisbane in October. And
October was gonna be when this whole thing kind of came under on that trip we met a whole bunch of people when we were on
way. Koh Samui. Koh Samui is a beautiful island in Thailand.
Anybody been there? Koh Samui? Wow. OK.
Well, actually, it appears -- OK? -- I have to say it appears that
he has been incorrect, at least thus far. It’s a fabulous place. It’s a little bit like Vilcabamba inasmuch as
quite a number of people quite a long time ago passed through
We’ve got David Wilcock, who is a well-known psychic intuitive there and then thought: Wow, what a wonderful place to stay.
who’s also highly scientific, and has a very well-known website
called divinecosmos.com who can give you the scientific basis It’s full of ex-pats and it’s got its own sort of alternative
for what’s going on, what he feels is the heating of the planets. community. But they do have the equivalent of those interstate
He works with Hoagland, and I’m sure many of you are familiar freeways going through the valleys, sadly, and it’s been pretty
with Richard Hoagland. much trashed. And of course one of the reasons why it’s been
trashed is because they built an airport. That’s the end.
So what happens is, we get all this testimony and some of it is
corroborative, some of it is not. Some of it is conflicting. B’OL: We don’t want that here.
What’s interesting is that it’s almost like... You know, maybe this BR: Yes. Anyway, beside the point. Koh Samui -- there we
is a slightly cold analogy, but it’s almost like watching a game in were. We met Jake Simpson. And the first preface that I want to
which there are predictions as to which side’s gonna win. We’re make to this information: It’s all on our site. We wrote up as
getting people that are sort of calling the shots and calling the much as we could. Well, we wrote up as much as we could
plays, if you will. remember.
But I have to say that when it appears that something hasn’t We spent three days, or maybe it was even four days, with this
happened, for example in October, there are a number of reasons man and his family and his children. And he’s a delightful, brave
why that might be the case. It doesn’t actually necessarily mean man.
that certain things haven’t happened.
One of the first things he said to us was that when he first
It could mean that these viruses have been put in place. It could encountered our information, he wasn’t sure if we were “real” or
mean that they’ve been activated. It could mean they’re not not. [laughs] He used his own intelligence-gathering contacts to
showing up yet. It could mean we need another six months to see check us out.
that. If you talk to Bill Deagle, that’s probably what he’ll say.
He looked me in the eye. He said: I checked you out, so I know
On the other hand, it could mean the White Hats in the everything about your life. You’ve got nothing to worry about. He
government -- and this is a very important part of it -- have been said: It’s all cool. He said: I know that you’ve been telling the
successful. truth.
There has been, from what I understand even in the last year, And then the other thing he said, the next thing he said, was:
something of a coup in our government in the United States, Anyone else who’s ever tried to do exactly what you’re doing has
which is not necessarily... I mean, Obama’s a front-man and he been killed. So I really admire your courage.
was long prophesied, or planned, to be the leader at this time.
And this guy’s a warrior – OK? -- in the Jedi tradition. He’s quite
However, there is reason to believe that there are people, part of a remarkable man and that was a very high compliment from him
which is Majestic 12 - from our understanding with Dan and that he should be respecting our courage.
Marci - that are working and are White Hats and don’t want to
see the elimination of the population. And just to loop back into what we were talking about earlier on
when we first started before lunch, we’re not standing up here
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trying to be courageous. We’re just having fun and doing what

happens naturally and we’re just saying: Well, this is who we are. Voice: Like what?
We’ve got nothing to hide. It’s the Bill and Kerry Show. And so
on and so forth. [laughter] BR: Like what? Here we go. [laughter] I’ll try to remember the
stories that he told us. There’s four days’ worth and it’s not
A lot of people are saying: Wow, you’re so great. But actually necessarily a linear story.
one of the things that I think unites Kerry and myself very
strongly is that I have no fear. [to Kerry] Do you have any fear? First of all, he referenced just in passing some of the information
we have on our site about the creation of the super-soldier
KC: No, I actually don’t. And I’ll address that briefly as sort of a program, as described by Duncan O’Finioan and David Corso,
sidelight. But basically the weird thing about us embarking on and a whole lot of other people who contacted us privately who
this journey is that we both happen to be the kind of personalities, were involved in that.
I guess it’s a personality type, that sort of go forward in a very
optimistic way and we just don’t look over our shoulder. The Powers That Be -- the Intelligence, and militaries of the
world -- are very, very interested in harnessing the abilities of
We tend to just do what we do and then, you know, whatever humans, and they do this is in a number of different ways.
happens happens. So we’re not paranoid. I’m not afraid at the
moment and, you know, I’m a rebel at heart, so that was easy One of the things that they did with Jake, interestingly enough, is
from the beginning. And then, you know, obviously Bill wasn’t they figured, for whatever reason, that it would be useful for
afraid. them to enhance his cognitive ability. So they enhanced his
cognitive ability and this guy can do all kinds of things.
So it’s kind of weird that we do what we do, but we don’t see it
as something that would cause fear. It’s more a wild exciting He has a reading and comprehension speed of 80,000 to 100,000
adventure, I guess, if you will. words per minute. That’s a lot of zeroes. OK? [laughter]
What I’m not good at is, you know, a sort of a more drone-like As a test when he went through this program to check out that
existence, [laughter] in which you would have the same thing particular training, he was given George Orwell’s Animal Farm
every day and you would be predictable in certain ways. So I and he was asked to read it from cover to cover in three minutes
think that’s in our favor. and then he was tested.
BR: And Kerry’s not afraid of Majestic, the NSA, the CIA, the And he was tested like: What does it say on the top left of page
DIA, the DoD, or the Illuminati. But she’s not good with the big 154? You know. He got 90%. That wasn’t the highest score, but
spiders. Right? [laughter] that was enough for him to be a pass. I guess that’s why he
wasn’t in the FBI. He wasn’t a 60-percenter. Right? OK.
KC: It’s true. [laughs]
That was one of the first things that caught my attention and we
BR: It’s very funny. On a more serious note, I’m not afraid actually saw some of this remarkable ability in action when we
because I know I’m an immortal being. They can’t kill me. They were with him. We actually witnessed this. It was really very
can’t kill you. They can’t kill any of us. interesting.
That’s another lie that we’ve been told ever since we were old One of the things that would happen when we were talking with
enough to understand what our teachers were telling us. We’re him, is that he would be... Well, for instance, when I asked him a
not animated hunks of meat. We’re immortal spiritual beings that question and he dodged the question, he’d sort of skip away from
happen to be driving these vehicles, as George loves to say. it, make a little joke and change the subject. And then ten minutes
That’s very true. later he’d answer it.
And I like to say what Obi Wan Kenobi said in Star Wars. Maybe After a little while we saw this as a pattern and we said: Well,
you’re familiar with this. It’s a wonderful movie... all that myth, why are you waiting for a little while before you answer this
all that fact based in myth – If they kill me, I’ll just be more question? Why are you waiting sometimes for ten minutes,
powerful than they could have ever imagined. sometimes for half an hour, sometimes till the next day, and
sometimes you can answer immediately? What’s going on here?
Maybe that’s why they leave me alone. I mean, if they kill me,
I’ll just come back. [applause] And he eventually helped us understand that what was going on
was this – and this is really, really interesting, and it’s just the tip
KC: OK. So let’s do Jake Simpson. of the iceberg of a whole bunch of incredible information that he
told us.
BR: Let’s do Jake Simpson. [laughter] That’s where we were.
Right? Jake is a remarkable man. And the spirit of fun, I think, He said there’s an artificial intelligence system that operates in
which is another thing that Kerry and I very much have in hyperspace. That is how they keep track of what people are
common, he has the same thing in common. saying -- if they want to – what people are saying, what they’re
thinking.
And also like George, Jake would be talking about all kinds of
things that would make our eyes bulge, and he would just have a Not only that, he said that if they wanted to find out what Julius
big grin on his face because he’s been living with this stuff for a Caesar’s last words really were, they could find out.
long time.
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He said this is an enhancement. It’s a human enhancement of What he would say is: It’s coming around again. And it’s almost
alien technology. He said this is so advanced that the ETs are not like, I guess, a traveling beacon, which... it would zone in or it
happy that we’ve got it because we’re not using it right. That’s would be gone. He could tap into when he felt they were sort of
what he said. And he said this monitoring capacity... listening in and when they weren’t, and that’s when he would tell
us stuff. So that’s how the conversation progressed.
And this dovetailed directly with something that we’d heard from
Henry Deacon, because I talked to Henry about a conversation I’m not sure... Well, OK, let me say that one thing that has been
that I’d had completely separately. And this is a whole different left off of our discussion with him - he talked also about... As you
story, long ago. This is another kind of similar thing. There’s a may know, John Lear had talked about, under Area 51 and under
lot of interesting whistleblowers that I’ve known personally. Nevada, there’s very likely a high-speed train that goes
underground between here and places like Pine Gap, Australia,
Back in 2000, long before Camelot, I ended up talking to a guy and various other bases including, I’m sure, CERN in Geneva.
who used to work in Bell Labs. We were walking on the beach
and this guy was telling me an incredible story. At the time I Basically that’s how they move people around. And he actually,
thought it was incredible. you know, attested to that, as well as the fact that John Lear had
said that he’d gotten inside information about this.
Getting on with the story, we’re walking on the beach because he
hadn’t wanted to talk to me about this it in his own house. So this is where, again, we’re getting more than one
whistleblower from completely different places that are in
I told Henry this story. He said: It won’t make any difference agreement.
where you talk. It doesn’t matter whether you’re on the beach, in
the forest, in your bedroom, or inside a lead-lined cave. He said: I want to say here also that there’s an interesting thing that goes
It makes absolutely no difference. If they want to hear what on with whistleblowers. They’re human like anyone, and they
you’re saying, they’re gonna hear what you’re saying. You often fluctuate as to how much they’ll reveal to you at any given
know? time.
Now, Henry didn’t enlarge on that, but when Jake started to tell So there’s a whole psychology that we’ve had to sort of learn by
us about this technology, then I started to understand it works in experience as we’ve started to interact with these people, in
hyperspace. It’s a hyper-dimensional thing. And I can’t even dealing with some days they will be able to tell you things and
imagine the details. they will feel brave and sort of rebellious and tell you whatever
they want.
But when we started to ask Jake, we said: Look, this is incredible
stuff. I can’t believe that these people have this sort of And the next day they’re telling you that they actually can’t tell
technology. I can believe they’ve got advanced craft and I know you anything. They can’t talk about this, they can’t talk about
they can do strange things, but this is really out of this world. that, and they’re worried about the safety of their family and
loved ones. So it’s important to know that they blow hot and
He said: Listen. Black technology -- meaning black physics cold.
technology, or the physics that they use in Black Ops -- is
probably something like 10,000 years ahead of public sector In the case of Henry Deacon, he’s been quite an interesting
technology –10,000 years ahead of public sector technology! -- witness, one of the people we’ve gotten to know almost maybe
and it’s accelerating away from the state of public sector better than anyone, in some ways.
technology at a rate of a thousand years a year. That’s how come
they can do this stuff. He worked for Livermore Labs. He worked for places on the
planet that are highly sophisticated, that have technologies that
He said: You have no idea what they can do. They can do almost are really beyond, as Bill is talking about. He was hands-on with
anything. those technologies. He was involved in 9/11. He knows some of
the planning behind it. But his level only goes to a certain point.
And this is the remark that Brian was saying yesterday, about
Arthur C. Clarke’s comment: Any sufficiently high technology And this is another thing about whistleblowers - and this is
would be actually indistinguishable from magic. We’re almost at something else that we keep in mind when we analyze the
that stage already, as far as we can understand from what Jake testimony that we do get - which is, they all have levels at which
was saying. they have access, and their level cuts off at some point.
KC: Yeah. Just to sort of drill down a little bit into what was So you cannot always know what they’re telling you is the
going on when he would answer the questions or not answer the complete truth based on, as Richard Hoagland would say, there
questions, one of the things he would do is say: Wait. We’d say: are many levels to the onion, or...
Wait? Wait for what? [laughs] Then he would say: OK. It’s all
right now. BR: The lie is different at every level.
It’s important to know that he was a trained remote viewer as KC: Yeah. The lie is different at every level. And that really is
well, and a highly-developed intuitive. That helped him in his absolutely true, so that you will get people who say: Wait a
various jobs that he did around the world -- for the secret minute. There’s no such thing as Majestic 12 because I didn’t
government, in essence. know about them. And in this case, that’s what Henry says. He’s
never heard of Majestic 12.
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Voice: What is it?

When we came across Jake’s information in this - and we’ve only
KC: OK. Majestic 12 is... The storyline goes that back in the just started to hear it - because he started talking about what was
Truman administration, a group of well, basically, Illuminati, known, and what might be coming, and what he was in the know
were given the task -- scientists, engineers, mainly in America about, and what preparations had been made for it.
put together, supposedly twelve. There are photographs of who
the exact people were, people like Wernher von Braun. And he was telling this in such detail that we ourselves thought,
back in October, we thought: You know what? We don’t know if
BR: I’m not sure he was in Majestic 12. we can release this, because we started to wonder if we had a
responsibility to withhold this information because it didn’t
BO’L: He wasn’t. sound good.
KC: OK. I’m not gonna argue with that. There are various A few months later we’re kind of thinking: Well, OK. We know a
people like, even... OK, in theory someone like Einstein could be little bit more. We’ve had a lot of telephone conversations with
Majestic 12. There were people in high places in government, in the guy. He’s emphasizing that it is not known what’s going to
military, that were assembled to handle what was considered to happen.
be “The ET Problem” or question.
But what he basically said is that it has been known since the
And from there on, they grew and basically stopped letting Second World War -- probably since the Second World War, he
presidents know in America, except as a need-to-know whatever said -- and he suspects this is the reason for Eisenhower’s heart
they needed to know. And then the presidents really didn’t have attack in 1955, shortly after his own meeting with the aliens who
access. were telling him something that might not all have been good
news -- that there was something coming at us.
This dovetails with the testimony of Dan Sherman, who is an
intuitive communicator that was trained by the government, who Or, relativistically speaking, we are like a ship in the solar system
was actually genetically engineered in his mother’s womb before sailing into the storm as we go careering around the Milky Way,
he was born, to handle what will be - according to what he was goodness knows at what rate of speed. But we’re sailing into
taught by the government - a shutdown, electromagnetically, something.
across the planet at some point in the future. And he wasn’t told
when. Now, this dovetails exactly, again, with what Dan Burisch reports
is being told to us by the future humans -- that we’re going to be
He’s still alive. We have an interview with him. He’s written a entering an area of energetic space; that the effect on the Earth is
book called Above Black. A fascinating man, very buttoned- magnified by the man-made Looking Glasses and Stargates.
down, doesn’t want to reveal a lot, but he did quit the program
and then he began to be a whistleblower to tell people what was Jake didn’t know about the man-made Looking Glasses and
going on. Stargates, but he said... his metaphor was, and the words that he
used were: There is a ‘wave’ coming.
He was communicating with an alien, using a computer initially,
eventually not using the computer anymore - he had direct There is a ‘wave’ coming.In space it doesn’t matter whether
communication with that alien. you’re coming at the wave or the wave’s coming at you. I don’t
know which one, either, but he said there’s a wave that’s gonna
He was trained to handle a situation in which our government hit us.
would not be able to communicate with each other -- The Powers
That Be -- and they were gonna use humans stationed around the When we said: When? he said as far as he understands, it’s not
globe to communicate, for some reason, with off-planet 2012; it’s later.
intelligences during a time when there would be no
electromagnetic communication. When we put to him the date that Bob Dean mentioned to us –
now, this is in connection with what he was told was Nibiru or
BR: The exact phrase in his book, Above Black, is that: This is in Planet X. Bob Dean gave the date of 2017. Our man Jake
preparation for a future time when all electronic communication Simpson said: That’s probably just about right.
would be rendered useless. And he was told this 20 years ago.
But as Kerry says, he wasn’t told WHEN. That’s good news because maybe we’ve got a few more years.
Dan Burisch never said 2012. Dan Burisch would only say:
And the reason why we went onto that little interesting detour is ’Round about now.
because this is further corroboration that The Powers That Be
somehow knew or suspected or were trying to insure themselves And Jake told us ... [interruption / discussion re changing camera
against something that was coming down the line which they tape] We’ll just pause at that dramatic point, and then we’ll carry
definitely didn’t want us to know about because they felt that we on talking about what he [said].
couldn’t handle it.
KC: So, just to reiterate that for those of you that are in
Now, going back into the Jake Simpson situation, let me just take conversation and moving around, we’re gonna take a half hour.
two minutes to talk to Alfonso. [the assistant cameraman at the We have one hour left for Camelot and a half hour of that we’re
event] [To Alfonso: We’ve got four minutes worth of tape left. gonna dedicate to questions from the audience. We’re gonna also
We’ll have to pause just for a couple of seconds to change tapes allow for around 15 minutes for Miriam to speak and she’s gonna
and things, and that’s going to be coming up very soon.] join a panel at the very end.
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These things can travel outside of our solar system if they want
We have 15 minutes left to just wrap up what we’ve been telling to, or even larger versions can. This is all part of the 10,000 years
you so that... to continue on a little bit more with Jake Simpson, ahead of regular physics context that he told us about. And that’s
and then wrap things up as closely as we can. So we’re gonna just a fun story for the aerospace buffs, of which I am one.
talk about the superluminal craft that Jake Simpson told us about.
But what he told us about the ‘wave’ that was coming, which is
And one thing I want to say [is] that I was talking to somebody, where we were at just before the break, one of the things I asked
actually Alfonso, and realized that we hadn’t said [that] Jake him was: well, how did he know about this thing?
Simpson is still working for The Man -- the Illuminati.
This can be answered on a number of different levels. One of his
He was actually in a meeting, a secret meeting he told us about, responses to that was they’ve been out to take a look. They’ve
in which... I guess it had to do with his rebellion and breaking been out “in their superluminal craft”. They’ve been out to take
from... trying to get out of that whole business. When he heard a look at this thing and they’ve come back to report what it was
them referring to people as, you know, completely eliminated... that they measured, whatever they saw.
[to Bill] What was his actual words? Do you remember?
That impressed me. It was a very straight-forward, matter-of-fact
BR: I actually don’t remember. answer. It’s actually, well, yeah, you know, if you’re sitting in
Florida and there’s a storm coming in, there’s a hurricane coming
KC: Yeah. It was something so dire, something so cold and just in, then maybe you go out and take a look and see where it is, and
ruthless, that he realized he had to get out. So they made his life you come back and say: You know what? It’s going to be here in
very uncomfortable and closed down some projects that he had three days.
been involved in.
Now, he did not know -- this is to repeat what we said before --
He got out of the situation, but he is called upon from time to he didn’t know when this thing was coming. And he didn’t know
time to do them a “favor”. So I have to say that, like many what would happen when it did come.
whistleblowers, he could never completely get out and they are
often highly surveilled, as we are. It’s very, very important to stress that he said that nobody knows
what’s going to happen. The ETs don’t know.
I have to say that although we’ve had nothing super-bad happen
to us directly, there have been people that have had things happen He said it could be just a puff of wind and then it’s all over, you
as a result of association with us, such that, you know, we had know. Or he said it could be... He’s the only other person that we
somebody who took over our website whose place was broken have come across who said exactly what George Green said
into the next day. about the 400-mile-an-hour winds. He said exactly the same
thing.
He basically called us up and said he never wanted to have
anything else to do with us. [laughs] Now, we don’t know for He said that this is the kind of thing that could occur. Whether it
sure that that was just not a coincidence. Obviously he felt it was will occur or not is a completely different matter.
a targeted situation.
And what Jake was saying was being done about this was
So, I have to say that whereas we are protected... And Jake something that was not news to us, or would be news to anyone
himself got us into Thailand and he has been monitoring our in this room.
steps. He’s quite open about that. He, in fact, will know exactly
what we’re doing today. He’s basically giving us his blessing. He said that ever since they found out about this stuff, which is
pretty much ’round about the Second World War, the military
He’s also made it possible for us to get through some have been doing what it is that they do best, which is, they’re
immigration problems that we could have had. So we’ve also had digging and start being defensive. So they started tunneling in
assistance in those areas. But people that associate with us, it may and making all their trillions of dollars-worth of investment in
be another matter. We just don’t know. our underground bases.
BR: OK. Back to Jake. One of the things that he told us -- and One of the things he told us was that in some locations, when
this will be fun for the aerospace buffs in the crowd here -- he they were excavating these giant bases that they’ve got, they
told us about the TR-3B, the big Triangle. broke into older bases that were there, deep underground, which
have not been built by us.
He said that this thing can travel from geostationary orbit, which
is 22,300 miles up, to treetop height in one... two... three... four... Voice: Whoo hoo!
five [snaps fingers] seconds. And I said: Wow! That’s something
else. And I said: Jake, how do you know that? BR: Oh yeah. What he said was - and we had not heard this
anywhere before - he said that these bases were thousands of
He said: I was counting. [laughter] OK? I later figured it out. years old and had evidently been excavated by our predecessors
That’s 16 million miles per hour. in their response to the similar situation that occurred in their
world 12,000 years ago. OK?
He said: Look, this doesn’t travel in space. This doesn’t travel in
space. This is a space-time jump operation, that kind of thing. Now, you correlate that with all the myths of the Great Flood that
And he can’t say any more. exist in 88 different cultures or however many it is now, and
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Plato’s report of the sinking of Atlantis -- and he was a good He basically is operating -- and many people from black projects
historian. He never got anything wrong. -- it’s almost like, if you will, a form of programming, I have to
say, in which they are told there is a roll-out. It’s basically the
Something happened back then. There’s a huge amount of agenda as George Green has laid it out to you, and that’s why you
circumstantial evidence, and some would say quite solid get so many of the same reports.
evidence, to suggest that a long time ago we had...
Now, a lot of the agenda items haven’t actually happened yet, but
Before our current civilization, there’s a prior civilization that as you see, the ball is starting to roll. Certainly the economy
had its own high technology that might have been based on going down is maybe the tipping point.
slightly different stuff than we’ve got here, but they were faced
with exactly the same problems because these problems are So he has been cautioning us for two years to find a safe place, to
cyclical. do this, to do that, and make all these preparations for what he
feels, he’s completely convinced, is coming and that’s absolutely
And the cyclical problems are connected with the solar system’s inevitable.
rollercoaster journey around the Milky Way as it goes up and
down like horses on a merry-go-round, going round and round, Interestingly enough, we put him in touch with David Wilcock.
and round and round, and up and down, and up and down. Some of you will be familiar with David - maybe a reincarnation
of Edgar Cayce, depending on your point of view. David is very
Every time it crosses the galactic plane there seems to be some optimistic. David believes in ascension. David believes that
problematic thing that happens that is connected with energetic consciousness is changing, that there’s something very positive
space. coming out of all this.
This does also link in with what other commentators, particularly Henry and David had a wonderful meeting of the minds. They’ve
David Wilcock and others -- David is a good friend of ours; we talked for hours and hours and hours. David was just on Coast to
know him very well -- have commented about the fact that this is Coast reporting on a lot of our Henry Deacon testimony, things
not necessarily always bad news. that Henry has told him about, you know, human-looking aliens
that are working in the government.
This energetic space that we travel through regularly is also
maybe something that prompts changes in our DNA, changes in We’ve also gotten that same testimony from Bob Dean who is an
the way that our consciousness functions, changes in the way that elder statesman and ex-military man who is definitely in the
we’re able to access and process information. know as to what’s going on behind the scenes with the
government.
Personally, I wouldn’t take it any further than that, but I do
personally believe that there is some evidence to suggest, quite So what’s very interesting is to see a black project person like our
some circumstantial evidence to suggest, that not only are there Henry Deacon get in touch with someone like David Wilcock and
Earth changes but there are consciousness changes. And all of also resonate with some of the things that David is saying in
this stuff is happening at the same time. terms of: Look, it’s not all dire. So that’s an interesting sort of
side-light to what goes on.
One of the things that Henry Deacon told us when we first met
him back in September 2006, he said the problem is that What we do try to do is put some of our whistleblowers in touch
everything is happening at the same time. It’s all converging. It’s with our other contacts. Often they strike up wonderful
all coming together. friendships, and there are meetings of the minds, and sometimes
they can put two and two together, also, among themselves.
He didn’t say what “everything” was, but he was emphasizing
over and over again that the problems are multiple, and this is We also put George in touch with Jake Simpson, for example, so
one of the reasons why they’re so confusing. they’ve had some dialogue. Jake, for example, resonates very
strongly with everything George is saying and wants to sort of go
KC: Yeah. And I wanted to say that Henry Deacon, from the further along that line with George, because George is very
early time we met him, he has been absolutely adamant in terms instrumental in sort of making plans for: What can we do? If all
of what he was told by the government while he was working for of this is coming, what can we do?
black projects, how they were informed that these things were
coming -- and therefore on the more negative side of the timeline That’s actually the next step that we want to talk about before we
-- and that they needed to be prepared for. open up for questions. We created another website - it’s called
projectavalon.net - a few months ago. It has a forum in which
So, one of the things that Henry has been doing has been telling what our objective was... Once we stated the problem with
us about things like buying a car that is old enough not to be Camelot and described the problem, what we wanted to do was
containing... create solutions or possible solutions and connect people, so that
they could find safe places if they felt that was necessary.
BR: An engine management system.
So, again, Project Avalon is set up to do that and I mentioned it
KC: ... so that The Powers That Be cannot drive your car for you before. [to Bill] Do you want to talk about it in general in any
and also so that it cannot be affected by the CMEs [coronal mass way?
ejections] that come off the sun when the sun starts to get very
active, which he said was going to be inevitable. BR: Yeah. It was inspired, really, by our interview with George
Green in that we... I think it was dated last April. We were so
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struck by his Ground Crew messages [ed. note: George’s The message essentially is that the ground crew need to work
channeled book, Messages for the Ground Crew] and it resonated together and they need to connect together. They need to form
with us so strongly. communities.
The message of -- I’m just trying to think how to put it all into Now, a community isn’t necessarily just a little group of people
just a single sentence – it’s a message of hope against a backdrop at the end of a muddy road halfway up a mountain in Vilcabamba
of bad news, if you like. growing their own vegetables and hoping for the best. That’s not
necessarily what a community is.
In other words, we can do something about it, but we have to
start now, and we have to connect with people. We have to work That was a little flip and I didn’t mean it that way, but the
together. We have to form communities. We have to be smart. community can also be a street. It can be the people in your
We have to be informed and then we’re into the chance, you apartment. It can be people who are connected with each other
know. who meet regularly who live in the city. You don’t have to
relocate to Vilcabamba in order to operate.
Now, to me that sounds like the kind of a thing that a coach
would say before an important game. That’s the kind of thing that Somebody... are they in this room? The person who said to me
gets me motivated to play my best. that they had been really worried about this, about where to go,
and what to do, and what action to take, and what country should
Other people might say: Hey, I quit. But some people are going to they be in? What community should they join?
quit. And some people are going to step up to the plate and
produce their very, very best at this time. On the Avalon forum, when this was being debated, one of the
messages that they got that changed their whole outlook was: It’s
One of my favorite movies... Some of you may know this. It’s not where you are. It’s what you are. OK? That person who
dated now, actually. This is with Jeff Bridges, called Starman. reported that wonderful story to me... Yeah. Beautiful. Did I tell
Anyone seen Starman? Hey, wow. OK. I love that movie. that right?
One of the things he says at the very, very end... And the story of Voice: That’s it.
Starman:It’s a bit about an alien who has taken on a human body,
and he’s on the run from the spooks that are trying to grab him, BR: That’s it. OK. And there are other versions of that. It’s not
and so on and so forth. necessarily a question of how many gold coins you’ve got in your
pocket and whether you know how to grow vegetables. It’s not
He’s saying, towards the end of the movie, what he has learned about that.
from his short time operating as a human being on this planet.
And his summary, as he says: The thing that is really wonderful It’s about your relationships with people. It’s about whether you
about you is that when things are at their worst you are at your can make things work. Whether you can form teams with people.
best. Such a moving line. That had a huge impact on me because Whether your response to the crisis is: Oh my God, what am I
it’s so true. going to do for myself? Or: Oh my God, what am I going to do
about everyone else?
We have that capacity to step up to the plate, to give the
American baseball term here. I’m English, you know, and I One of the stories which I love which is inspiring... I believe this
prefer cricket. [laughter] But it’s got something to do with rising is told in a wonderful book that inspired me a long time ago
to the occasion. It’s got something to do with responding to the called A Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot. Who’ve read
challenge, and we can do this. that? A lot of you, I’m sure.
[to Kerry] Talk about Avalon. Do you remember the story that he told about the researches
being done into the miracles that had taken place at Lourdes?
KC: No, no, no. Because some people do receive miraculous curing at Lourdes.
BR: You want me to talk about it? OK. Fine. A bunch of psychologists started to interview people who had
received these healings, and some people who hadn’t, because it
KC: Yeah, a little bit, yeah. And then we’ll open up for was useful to know how come it worked sometimes and how
questions. come it doesn’t work other times?
BR: Yeah. It’s about connecting with people. It’s about synergy. What they found out was that the people who had received
It’s about the fact that individually we may fall, but together we healings were the people who had prayed for the healing for
may stand. You know. And there are groups that are forming all somebody else.
over the world. We called this what George is calling it in his
wonderful little book... Where is it? We don’t have it. Voice: Wow. [laughter]
KC: No. BR: Isn’t that a wonderful story?
BR: Messages for the Ground Crew. You are the ground crew. Voices: Uh huh. Yes.
We are the ground crew. Anyone else who’s paying attention to
what’s going on here are the ground crew. BR: And the lovely catch-22 about that is you can’t fake that,
you see. Groucho Marx once said: Honesty and integrity make
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the world go round. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.
[laughter] And for those of you who are saying, asking yourself and asking
other people: What can I do? What can I do? Do what we did a
You can’t fake a prayer that someone else will get healed, hoping long time ago in our naivety, in our ignorance -- we just started
that you’re going to get the benefit. It doesn’t work that way. It’s something not knowing where it was going to go but we just
got to be real, you see. started by taking that first step.
It’s that lifting of ourselves up to be the highest and the best that We didn’t know where it was going to go, but you do what you
we can be so that we’re not going into this situation thinking: can do by taking that first step. Whatever you can do, do it. It
How can I save my own situation? doesn’t really matter.
You’re going in there saying: What can I do that’s best for the Talk to someone in the bus. Talk to someone in the plane. Start
human race? What can I do that’s best for everyone around me? writing letters to people. Open up a website. Start contributing to
[applause] the Avalon forum. Do whatever you can do. You know what you
can do. We don’t.
And if we do that, if all of us do that, if enough of us do that
around the world at the same time, this is what’s going to save And so it’s intentional action coming from the highest place of
the situation, in my own estimation. It’s not a matter of sitting in contribution. That’s what’s going to get us out of this mess.
power spots and meditating and doing... you know.
Timelines can be changed. It’s not fixed. It’s not determined. No
It’s not a question of ritual activity. It’s the question of one knows what’s going to happen -- and this is good news, that
intentional action that’s coming from the very highest place from no one knows what’s going to happen.
inside you.
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Project Camelot:
Dr. Bill Deagle - Telephone Transcript
16 February 2009
Dr Bill Deagle called us today to give us an update after our last
contact with him: his famous phone call of 4 October 2008. He Hi there, this is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan from Project
talked with us for 23 minutes about the great danger we all face Camelot. Today is Monday, the 16th of February, 2009.
from the engineered collapse of the world economy, and told us
that he had learned from senior intelligence sources that two So Bill Deagle, we’re very interested in hearing what you have to
nuclear devices had recently been found in US cities and say. I know you have an update for us, so go ahead.
deactivated.
BR: And, Bill, it was your birthday yesterday? Is that right?
Bill Deagle (BD): Hello, Bill.
BD: It was. And today is President’s Day -- which is interesting.
Bill Ryan (BR): Dr. Bill. Good afternoon to you. How’re you [laughter] Yeah.
doing?
The update, I guess, follows a talk last September [2008] and of
BD: Good. How is your manic day going on at the conference? course the call-back on October 4th regarding the dissolution of
Let’s see now. I guess you two had new travels. Where have you Iceland, which of course has got, probably, early membership in
gone? the European Union coming up. But what’s going on is it’s
decaying to a kind of a state of chaos there. There’s a number of
BR: Well, we were in Ecuador about a month ago working with nations where this is happening.
Brian O’Leary and George Green. I think you know George,
don’t you? I just got off of doing a show today with Joan Veon, Ted Pike,
and of course Lindsey Williams, his contacts high in the oil field
BD: Oh yes. I know George quite well. and the globalist organizations that are controlling things.
BR: And Brian O’Leary, ex-NASA. He’s a free energy activist. One thing I think people should realize is that what’s coming is
He’s a very wonderful man and we were delighted to get to know not a recession. It’s not a depression. It’s not even just an
him. And Ecuador is a very interesting place to be. Now we’re in economic dissolution where we get the entire world economy to
somewhere completely different at the Los Angeles Conscious collapse.
Life Expo.
It’s an economic revolution, which means that there probably is
BD: Oh yeah. That’s good. going to be some short, sharp, very severe pain, but they’re gonna
be changing the very whole nature of what the world economy
BR: We’ve been talking informally with David Icke and Jordan is.
Maxwell and a number of other people who you know pretty
well. And what I believe, from all the research and also the intuitive
side of what’s going on, is we’re going to be facing a number of
BD: I heard that David was down for the conference, too. Is that things that fly in the face of logic and the latest in scientific
right? research.
BR: That’s correct. We’re actually looking forward to For example, this week I’ll have on the show Dr. Peter Ward, a
interviewing him in a few days’ time. We’ve been chasing him. specialist in geology, volcanism, and air chemistry in terms of
what’s going on in the atmospheric chemistry, and his model, of
BD: Do you have a contact number for him? I’ve been wanting course, using volcanism and sulphur dioxide, as well as the
to get him on my show for a while and I haven’t been able to get human production of SO2 as one of the major factors controlling
in touch with him. the climate.
BR: We would be delighted to make that introduction. But they’re going to proceed with a Carbon Tax at the same time
they’re probably going to put in jeopardy... 100-million souls are
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Bill, this is Kerry Cassidy. likely to die in the next year from starvation caused by us not
dealing with the financial problems, and if there’s a financial
BR: Hi. seizure, in a sense, where the entire world economy shuts down.
KC: How’re you doing? And this is happening both in U.S. ports and elsewhere. It’s
called the Baltic Dry Index, which means that goods are not
BR: Hi, Kerry. being shipped anywhere in the world. That means food,
automobiles, everything shutting down. It actually shut down
KC: We’d like to do a brief introduction before you get started 87% over its average.
there. So...
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That means the international flow of goods, usually by ship and And that’s where we’re going. And it’s going to happen fairly
rail, around the world that are shipping from one country to rapidly with regionalized world currencies and debt-restructuring
another. And it means that things aren’t being shipped. of the planet.
So, for instance, in Germany, they’re stacking up on the docks. The problem I see right now is that I hear a lot of disinformation
They don’t have any place to put automobiles that are going to be and fear-mongering.
shipped overseas. Goods in China – they’re afraid of a
deterioration in their whole society, so they continue to have the We still can control where this goes. We do not have to go down
factories going, making products to be shipped overseas and they the pathway that leads to the starvation of 100-million people and
have no place to put them. So what we have is a production of puts at risk the dangers of laying the groundwork for a pandemic.
goods. The Japanese company, Panasonic, is already recalling their
employees to Japan because they foresee in the next few months
At the same time, we’re now entering into a fairly severe climate a pandemic.
shift that’s causing further dangers to world food supplies at a
time when the economy is imploding. So what’s happening basically with the warning call-back before
the 7th, they’re going to, in a sense, “Icelandify” the economies
And the passage of the senate and congressional bill that was of the world. And the decisions that were made during the first
done last week under the Obama administration, exactly opposite days of the Obama administration guarantees that implosion’s
of what Lyndon LaRouche recommended -- which I strongly going to happen sooner rather than later.
recommend that we follow Linden’s recommendations, except
for his pushing of nuclear plants as a solution. So I agree with the experts, the financial experts like Gerald
Celente. We’re probably going to be dealing with a bank holiday
We had a Dr. Ernest Sternglass on the show last week and I agree as early as, possibly, somewhere between March and June.
with him that we need to use natural gas and convert these
nuclear power plants because they all release radioisotopes. And BR: This is very much what George Green says.
we do have a time window with technologies coming on-line,
including nuclear fusion, solar and wind, and other energies, that BD: Right. And that means a world-wide collapse and it’s all
can help reduce the need. tied... Part of this is tied because they have an agenda and a
timeline. And people need to know this, that the timeline deals
But the real problem right now in the short term is that we’re with galactic and solar issues.
moving into – not a depression -- but an economic meltdown and
a complete conversion of the world economy. And I believe that We’re dealing with a time when we’re moving into the energetic
during this period of pain we’re under incredible danger of phase of the galactic plane, and they know the Earth changes are
making wrong decisions. going to occur. They’re getting ready with their “golden tickets”
to try to hide underground when all these events start taking
It looks like the Israelis have elected a government that’s place, rather than preparing the population, to be prepared for the
extremely right-wing and will not give any quarter to the Earth changes that are going to occur to our planet.
Palestinians, and is very likely to want to attack Iran in the next
six months. This will also lead us to this peace treaty that we Believe it or not, the logic of destroying the world’s economy,
keep talking about that is likely to happen where they partition releasing a pandemic, or even starting a nuclear war gives them
the State of Israel and will guarantee a future war with an an excuse to hide underground while the rest of us are, in a sense,
indefensible border. imploded with the financial meltdown and the wars and
pestilence.
And the financial system is basically going to be tied to a world
tracking system so everything is inside their computer databases. BR: OK.
Now, we’re going to deal with a long-standing depression that is BD: So in a sense, the events that are, inflaming rather than
going to last for years and decades, something that’s much more solving the problem is a cover for them to hide when the events
akin to a battlefield wound in the Civil War, where the battlefield strike our solar system and our planet.
doctor amputates a limb after a cannonball takes off part of
someone’s leg. It’s going to be extremely painful without BR: But there are some things which a lot of people, including
anesthetic on the battlefield, with cautery and saws, etcetera. yourself and us, thought were going to happen around the back-
end of last year, and they haven’t actually happened yet, as far as
And that’s the thing that people need to grasp here, is this is not is visible anyway.
like anything we’ve experienced before either, in the Great
Depression of the 1930s. It’s more in keeping with the collapse of BD: Well what’s happened... Actually, if you talk with the
the Lombardy System in the 14th century that resulted in the financial experts – like we had Joan Veon on today and again last
Black Death. week, and other experts like Harley Schlanger from Executive
Intelligence Review -- what they’re doing is, behind the scenes
But it’s even more than that, because what we’re going to end up the Russians, for example, just met over the last week or so with
with out of it very quickly, is a whole new world economy where the EU and Rothschild in London. The G7 just met.
everything’s in an electronic system, that they have absolute
control over every citizen on Earth, including tracking and They actually have made all the deals to set up the regional world
control. banking structure and system, and it’s almost finished. It’s not a
matter of going to start. It’s actually almost all completed.
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doing, drinking, beating me up and drinking, or taking drugs and

And it’s very likely that once they have all of their back-room spending all our money and, you know, doing all these things to
agreements made, then they’ll declare the bank holiday and our family -- in a sense to America -- the states are saying to the
declare this new currency standard. federal government, like a husband gone astray, they’re saying:
We’re going to have a divorce.
Just like I corroborated evidence that Hal Turner was correct:
They’ve delivered over 800 billion Amero notes to the So basically the states are saying, with the 10th Amendment
Communist Chinese already, in preparation for a whole new announcements: Don’t try to pass in federal law, when there isn’t
world currency system. a state of war, to have a National Service which will include all
young people 18-25 including not only in the four branches of the
So behind the scenes everything’s being done. Nothing is overt in military, but Homeland Security, and indentured servitude to
terms of the regular news. And they’re ready to do the final corporations that can be renewed at the whim of the corporations
stages here very shortly. or the government.
KC: OK, Bill, but can you tell us who your sources are on this? Don’t try to seize these powers over Health Care... like the HIT
system, which is the Health Information Technology, to monitor
BD: Sources? Some of them I can and some I can’t. doctors; and, in a sense, with the new policies written by
Daeschle, to actually have forced eugenics, which is actually in
KC: Maybe in general? an attachment of the bail-out bill.So they’ve attached a lot of
things that are bringing in imperial powers to this new
BD: In general I have financial experts that I’ve interviewed. I government.
have other sources that are classified. Nevertheless, from what I
hear, it agrees with the topics which we’ve had recently on my KC: OK. But you’re saying the states’ 10th Amendment is not
program, plus my other independent researches from other going to be successful. Why not?
sources.
BD: Oh, I didn’t say that. I didn’t say it wasn’t going to be
For example, I’ve had contacts inside the government that in the successful. I’m saying that’s the battle lines.
last 30 days we dismantled two nuclear devices in two U.S. cities.
One was New York City and another was another U.S. city. I See, the office of bringing these things together in a sense of
couldn’t get a final answer on it, but it appears it may have been information and prophecy isn’t to tell people what’s going to
Los Angeles. That was from very high up in the government, necessarily happen. It’s to give them the branch-points of
with very good contacts. decision.
So there were two major false-flag events that just became Right now we’re at a branch-point where we need to rise up as
averted by our own government, and we have good people inside states to get that requisite number of 38 states to actually stand up
the government that do not want to see the dissolution of and say: Federal government, don’t think about passing these
America, especially with the rising tide now... laws. Don’t think about doing a false flag or a pandemic or a
nuclear device in a U.S. city or dirty bomb or any other kind of
Almost 20 states are putting 10th Amendments in. And tomorrow false flag event because we know what’s up.
I’m going to have one of those initial authors on the program,
Representative Charles Key of Oklahoma. We’re aware now that you’re trying to seize power and it’s not
just power for the federal government, it’s power to be handed off
And they’re basically rebuking the federal government that in to George Soros, who’s the, if you want to call it, the largest
America, because it’s a republic, it’s based on an acceptance by inventor of the structured investment vehicles and the bubble
the states to form a union called the United States of America. economy and also the leader of the, if you want to call it, the
British-backed illegal drug sales around the world.
And what the government’s doing under the Obama
administration is to seize power and set up an imperial republic So what we have now is a situation where the battle lines are
not unlike what was set up with imperial Rome, where the finally drawn. And they’re going to move very quickly, so we’re
Caesars seized control over the provinces and the senators and at very high risk of a false flag in the next six to nine months.
created the rule of the Caesars during the Roman era.
In fact, this move by the states is very good because it shows that
And this is exactly what Obama is doing under his people are waking up spiritually and intellectually, that this is not
administration, is to set up a new imperial America that will just a new administration that’s going to bring change to resurrect
make treaties with world governments for regionalized currencies the economy.
and a world governmental control of finances, the military, and
ecological, along with a world tax like the World Carbon Tax, And we can see that this bail-out is not really a thing to build the
etcetera, to fund the globalization that they’re doing. economy up. It is all pork and ear marks.It’s designed to blow the
economy, just like the reason for the war and invasion in Iraq was
KC: You’re seeing the states actually do these things called the to have a trillion dollar debt to blow out the U.S. dollar. This is
10th Amendment, and you’re saying that... In some sense, they’re further gonna compound the problems.
actually seceding from the union, is what the move is.
And all these attachments, like the HIT or the Health Information
BD: Yeah, they’re basically doing a warning. It’s almost like a Technology, which is part of a eugenics policy to limit healthcare
warning before a divorce, like: If you continue doing what you’re to people that are elderly, if you can afford it. The government
419
and the doctors are going to be under an electronic medical

records regime of total monitoring of every keystroke. And because we’re not dealing with the financial issues, the
perfect storm of all these converging, we’re going to put at risk
The move of the states is a good thing, but they need to move the death of 100-million human beings caused by us not
more quickly because the danger of a false flag in the next three appropriately approaching this problem.
to six months is incredibly high. And a declaration of martial law
along with a bank holiday could be as early as March or before BR: Is there a risk of an Ice Age, or is it just going to be
the summer. increased instability of weather?
KC: What kind of false flag incident? Are you talking about an BD: Well, the Ice Age may come later. But if you actually look
economic false flag? at the time cycles, we’re in the 105,000-year time cycle and a
number of other cycles -- the 13,000-year time cycle, etcetera.
BD: There are three different options that are available on the We’re all on the time cycles to go into another Ice Age. And it
menu right now, and they could be in parallel, or in sequence, won’t take a long period. It won’t take decades or centuries. It
like 1-2-3, like being hit by a prize-fighter. The most likely first will occur as early as between one and three years.
false flag is an economic bank holiday coming up as early as
March; I’d say mid-to-late March is very likely. BR: Yeah.
The next thing is an event that’s very likely a nuclear event. If BD: There’s evidence that we’re moving into that and it’s
there’s any moves at all to make any attack which would allow primarily caused not by a drop in temperature but by increased
Israel to attack Iran, there will be two types of events: Number injection of sulphur dioxide and water vapor from increased
one is nuclear, and the other is biological. The counter-measures volcanism. And it occurs as we pass through the galactic plane
that Iran has right now in Syria is they have sleepers in America because it changes the magma flow under the Earth.
and in other Western nations with biological weapons ready to
release. So I believe we are less than five to seven years to heading into
an Ice Age, a true Ice Age. At the same time, we’re going to go
The Avian flu is very, very likely to occur this year and is almost through major Earth changes, including a pole shift. And it won’t
certain to occur by next year. That means that the Japanese move be just magnetic. We’ll actually see a pole movement that’ll
by Panasonic Corporation to pull back employees to Japan with occur.
the coming pandemic is based on fact, not conjecture.
For example, it’s estimated by our scientists that 500,000 years
So we have a number of events that we can avoid. We can dodge ago the North Pole was near North Bay, Ontario.
those bullets. But we need to start realizing that they’re
massaging and getting ready to kind of war-game this. BR: Sure. Yes.
Well, which of these events? Which sequence? I think that the BD: And 300-million years ago, if you actually look at the
financial bank holiday is most likely first. alignment, the equator went through Alaska.
BR: We have a final question. It’s not really a non-sequitur but BR: Yep.
it’s a little bit of a left-turn. And this is, what’s happening to the
world’s weather? BD: So we’re going to go through some significant changes. It
may only be a so-many-degrees shift that occurs, but we’re going
BD: The world’s weather: Basically, we’re entering into the to go through something.
photon belt of the galaxy and the volcanism under the Earth is
about to change direction in the next few years. And what’s And the globalists know this, which is why they’re driving these
happening right now is volcanoes all over the world are injecting policies that don’t even make financial sense, don’t make military
more water into the atmosphere. sense, and don’t make economic sense.
We’re going to talk about that this week and we’re also going to BR: What should individuals do? Should they go hide, buy gold,
have one of our climatologist experts, Dr. Tim Ball, on the and get into a safe place? Should they leave America? Or should
program next week, and Dr. Peter Ward on his new model. they just sit and stand up for their rights, or what? What should
they be doing right now?
The world’s weather, basically, is going through massive climate
shift because of changes in the amount of sulphur dioxide from BD: Well, the first thing they need to do is pray, to get guidance
volcanoes being injected into the atmosphere and water vapor. on that level. The second thing, I think they need to be able to
There’s over two million volcanoes underneath, this belt of have food and other things stored because it’s coming in spasms
volcanoes at the bottom of the oceans. It’s 43,000 miles long. of events. It could be as simple as two weeks of a bank holiday
without food on the shelves. And then it’ll quiet down, and then
And these events are going to dramatically increase drought in there’ll be the next event.
some areas and excessive rainfall in others, which means more
famine. The thing we should also think of is, here in the West, we’re
more likely to survive if we have skill sets. But there’s peoples in
So this year will be marked by the combination of the Baltic Dry third-world countries where they have fragile food supplies and
Index and the climate shifts, with a dramatic super-inflation of they’re likely to starve to death if we don’t help them.
prices for food, and starvation.
420
The people that live in areas that are relatively able to weather already seeing this in the states – that America is very much like
through this and have always just grown their own food and are the Weimar Republic during the rise of the Nazi regime.
subsistence... they’re quite likely to survive, especially if they’re
further away from the areas where there’s going to be major And I think that the parallel to what’s going on today in America
Earth changes occurring. makes me very concerned that the counter-reaction will be like a
snake moving forward. And their goal will be the rise of the
The populations in the big cities – if they don’t have a route of Fourth Reich happening in America in the next four years.
escape, a plan to be outside, food stored and other things, and self
protection, because if there’s a meltdown in society... Like, for KC: Well, from our understanding... and we’ve just talked to Jim
example, in California here, just like in Iceland, if there’s no Marrs and Peter Levenda and they’re actually on point with all of
money to pay police, you don’t have policing. that. They’re talking about it actually having happened already.
So we’re well on that road, apparently.
BR: Yes.
BD: Yeah, I think we are. Some of those events, you’re right, are
BD: So if that happens we’re gonna have... And the government already happened. Some are being played out. But we see the
officials know this, that if there’s a meltdown in society, there players getting ready.
will be more deaths actually caused by civil disruption than the
actual diseases or even the Earth change events or super-storms. And I believe that they already have war-gamed out the agenda to
let Obama cause enough of a response by the states that when
BR: Yes. A final question, a personal one: Are you planning to they finally bring in the end-game that they want to really set up,
stay in southern California? it will be a Nazi / Fascist state that will rise out of the ashes of the
Obama administration.
BD: Yes. I’m supposed to be here for now and that’s what I’m
going to be doing. If I get another word, believe me, you’ll know KC: Right. Problem – reaction – solution, as David Icke would
first! [Bill laughs] But I’m supposed to be here for now. say.
BR: OK. BD: Right.
BD: I’m in the, you could say, the tip of the spear, because I KC: OK. Well, thank you very much for your update, Bill
believe that a lot of the battlefield is gonna start here because in Deagle. It’s very valuable to hear what you have to say in terms
the western United States, new ideas tend to arise here. And, of of what might have happened back in October, some of the
course, the whole world is looking to America. eventualities that could have been rescued, in a sense, by the
“White Hats” that are in the government.
And right now, a part of the battlefield is... I believe that the
moves by Obama is preparing for a counter-move just like a BD: Right. And we could still turn it. Again, it’s not
snake moves against itself, and I see... deterministic. The future is not frozen -- it’s a liquid. OK?
The response to the Obama administration makes me very BR: Exactly. We’ll be seeing David Icke in a few days’ time.
concerned that there may be a very dramatic move to the opposite We’ll be very delighted to introduce him to you.
side, toward what I call the “Fourth Reich Nazification of
America,” with the increasing likelihood of the resurgence of a BD: Sounds good. Take care.
new type of Republican Party led by someone like Mr. Arnold
Schwarzenegger in the next four years. KC: Thank you, Bill!
And I’m very concerned that the counter-moves to this grab for BD: OK! Bye bye.
power and this total Marxist-Leninist state that Obama’s trying to
set up is going to cause such a violent counter-reaction -- we’re
.
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Project Camelot:
Bob Dean - Transcript of Informal Conversation
25 February 2009
This very interesting conversation took place at the International BR: Yes. Absolutely.
UFO Congress at Laughlin, Nevada, on 25 February 2009. It
was not a formal interview, had been opportune and unscheduled, BD: Those stones there...
and was recorded with a hand-held dictaphone in a very noisy
environment. Ken Elliott and Miriam Delicado were also present,
and we're delighted to share this with you. Enjoy :) BR: Yes, they weigh 1100 tons.
Start of recording BD: There’s even one outside there, that’s hauled from the
quarry.
Bob Dean: ...Don’t get me started there. I am not anti-Semitic,
but I have no illusions about the Israelis. I’ve known a number of KC: We were just looking at a video about that.
them fairly well for many years through my service in the
military. They’re a great people and they’re struggling to survive BR: Yep. Sure.
like everybody else.
BD: They never were able to put it up for some reason, probably
Bill Ryan: Yes. because they got into war with each other.
BD: Anyhow, Barry Chamish has provided information about a BR: Yes.
number of things that have been going on in Israel. It’s stuff
you’ll never you read in the newspaper, because the newspaper is BD: But anyhow, the stones they’ve discovered at the
filled with the Palestinians, Gaza and all that. foundation of the Temple Mount are of a size and age that match
the Baalbek-era stones.
BR: Sure.
BR: OK.
BD: One little point which I always tell people is that Israeli
archeologists have concluded that the foundation stones which BD: They estimate they’ve been there for 10,000 years.
they have excavated at the Temple Mount, what they call the
Mount of Zion...
BR: Yes. So how come this hasn’t been made public?
BR: Yes.
BD: Well, that’s a good question.
BD: The Temple Mount is where the Temple used to be.
BR: What’s the secret?
Kerry Cassidy: I’ve been there.
BD: And Barry makes the point that, like so many things in our
country... Like they finally found, you know, they identified the
BD: The Temple was there until 70 AD when the Romans tore it Ararat Anomaly through the Keyhole 11.
down. The Muslims now have built a beautiful mosque on top of
it. I can’t remember the name of it. But you know, this Mountain,
is what it is; it’s a small mountain. BR: Yes.
BR: Yes. BD: And they’ve never released that, have they?
BD: The Israeli archeologists have determined that the BR: Well. Sure.
foundation stones at the very bottom are thousands of years old.
These stones are the same size as the stones in the temple at BD: They put that Top Secret.
Baalbek.
BR: Well, that’s just too sensitive.
BR: Baalbek has giant ones.
BD: Why would they put the Ararat Anomaly Top Secret?
BD: Yes. If you’re familiar with Baalbek...
BR: It would upset a lot of people, wouldn’t it?
422
BD: Would it? The Muslims? BR: Oh yes, you did. Oh yes... a god-damn boat.. Oh yes.
KC: Well, you’re talking about the Ark, right? BD: Bleep me out, if I say something on the interview that’s
inappropriate.
[Bill/Kerry laughter]
BR: Oh, it’s very appropriate.
KC: Well, the reason’s obvious, isn’t it? Because they’re really
not willing to share what happened during the last cataclysm. BD: By all means, bleep me out. [laughs]
BD: How many scientists are willing to talk about anything that BR: It was exactly the right way to put it.
even hints or smacks of religion or the Bible or theological
history... BD: I’ve been bleeped on television before, you know. I won’t
tell you about that. Anyhow, the documentary the Israeli
BR: OK. OK. archeologists are filming, they’re not releasing it to the public.
BD: ...”all this bullshit about Jesus and God” ...and all that? BR: Uh huh.
Have you ever talked to an atheist? I hope you haven’t. Avoid
them like the plague. BD: But they’ve declared that the stones are probably at least
10,000 years old. And of course that blows the hell out of the
BR: Yes. idea that the whole temple was built by Solomon.
KC: Well, I have. But I’m not sure that’s the only reason why BR: Yes. Right.
they don’t....
BD: Solomon only went back, what, 1000 BC? 900 BC?
BD: Well, I don’t know why. I do know that they declared the
Arafat Anomaly, once they found out what the hell they had up BR: Yes.
there with the Keyhole. They inserted a team up there, for God’s
sakes. They extracted them and they brought out artifacts.
BD: Somewhere in that vicinity. Anyhow, these stones are 40
feet long, 10 feet high, and 8 feet thick.
BR: What did they find? Do you know what they found?
BR: 40 by 10 by 8.
BD: I don’t know what they found. All I know is that they found
“anomalous artifacts”.
BD: Forty feet long. Almost identical to the ones at Baalbek. I
found that intriguing.
BR: Right. OK.
BR: Yes. That’s incredible. That is so interesting.
BD: Now, what the hell did they find other than a bunch of
pieces of old wood? I don’t know.
BD: And the other thing that Barry Chamish has shared... [turns
to Ken Elliott, a friend of Bob and ourselves] Did you ever meet
BR: Yes. OK. Barry? Israeli UFO researcher. He’s very famous.
BD: It’s “anomalous artifacts”. For a long time the anomaly on Ken Elliott: No, no.
the Ararat Mountain was known as an anomaly. Apparently now
they discovered it was a boat. It wasn’t really an anomaly.
BD: Is that the Nephilim have been showing up all over the
place. That’s the word he used: Nephilim.
BR: Hm.
BR: Now, what does that mean?
BD: They said: “It’s a god-damn boat.”
BD: What I think it means? In Hebrew, it probably means the
BR: Yes. “Sons of God.”
BD: I think I said that in the conference today, those very words. BR: Right.
[laughs]
KC: It’s synonymous with the Anunnaki.
BR: You said that on video with us as well.
BR: Is it synonymous with the Anunnaki?
BD: Did I?
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BD: I think so. BR: Yes.
Ken: I think so. BD: But he disappeared. And this has happened, according to
Chamish, about three times so far.
BR: It’s a different word that was used by the Sumerians, isn’t
it? BR: Incredible. Is this in the public domain anywhere?
KC: But, as you know, that’s a general term. So what do you BD: In Israel.
think he meant?
BR: It is in Israel.
BD: Anyhow, they’ve had reports. One farmer there... They’ve
turned part of the Negev into a garden, with irrigation. They’ve BD: Yes.
got incredible farms at the edge of the Negev Desert. It was a
farmer’s area, pretty good-sized piece of land, growing all kinds
of things. BR: OK. So it’s not like this is off record. This has actually been
published.
He hears a commotion outside in his garden and he flicks on the
light which illuminates not only his doorstep but the yard out BD: The stones... the part about the stones has not been officially
there. He opens the door and there’s this guy standing there, in released.
some kind of a suit. He described it as kind of a space suit.
BR: OK. Is that anything that we can talk about, or is it off
KC: Wow. record?
BD: He was nine feet tall! BD: No. By all means.
BR: Yes. Anunnaki. BR: OK.
KC: Fabulous. [Interchange: Bill and Kerry, concerning the best dictaphone
positioning. The uploaded audio begins here.]
BD: This farmer goes to his door and looks up at this guy, who’s
this massive human being. He looks human -- arms, legs, head BD: Well, I think it’s interesting, the fact that those stones... I’ve
inside a device of some kind. He looks up at this guy. Of course, always been fascinated by the Baalbek stories. I’ve never been
his immediate instinct is to slam the door and run. And he did. He able to go there, you know. The years that I had Top Secret
went back and told his wife and she said: Have you been drinking clearance I would never be allowed to go there. They wouldn’t
again? Or something like that. even let me go to Berlin, for Christ’s sake, when I was at SHAPE.
KC: [laughs] KC: Why not?
BD: She goes to the front door, and of course there was no-one BD: Because of my clearance. You see, Europe was divided,
there. This is not just one incident. This has apparently happened honey. Germany was divided.
three times.
KC: Right.
BR: Hm.
BD: There was East Berlin, West Berlin. My kids were able to
BD: And so the word out among the Israeli UFO researchers is: go to West Berlin on a tour because they were in high school. I
The Nephilim are back. wanted to go to West Berlin. I wanted to visit the Brandenburg
Gate. I wanted to see a number of things.
KC: Okay, very interesting.
I wanted to get into the Berlin Museum but that was in East
Berlin because that had the Lolladoff plate in it. That is an
Miriam Delicado: That is very interesting. anomaly that is dynamite.
BR: Well, we don’t know what they want yet, but they’re BR: What’s it called again?
showing up at peoples’ houses. That’s quite funny.
BD: Lolladoff.
KC: Well, you know I had a very important dream about that.
BR: The Lolladoff plate.
BD: The size of the individual was such that he intimidated the
hell out of the farmer.
KC: And what’s the significance of that?
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BD: It’s named after a Russian archeologist who brought it back BD: And they called these Tiger cruises. And I have the
from Tibet. privilege of being on two of them.
BR: OK. KC: How long does it take on one of those to go between the
two?
BD: Before World War II began.
BD: Oh, they could make it in a short time, but it takes about a
KC: And when is it dated? week. But they could make it in three days. Those damn carriers
go so fast. That’s another classified thing. No one knows how
fast they can go.
BD: They can’t date it, honey. It’s a metallic substance that they
can’t even consider what it is.
BR: We know they go fast.
KC: Oh.
BD: Well, my son said one time they were playing with a
Russian trawler in the Mediterranean. They were being
BR: Things like that can’t be dated. They’re inorganic. shadowed, so the captain decided to play games with the Russian
trawler. And they slammed this big nuclear-powered aircraft
BD: I’ve shown the Lolladoff plate in my presentations a carrier -- a thousand feet long -- slammed it into high gear,
number of times and I have a slide of it. whatever they do, you know...
BR: I’d like to check it out. BR: [laughs] Right.
BD: Which I will be delighted to share with you. I can get a print BD: ...and the bow rose somewhat.
made of it. But the point is, the Lolladoff plate was an anomaly
with a little Gray on it and symbols all around. BR: Really? That’s hard to imagine.
BR: OK. BD: Yes! And this massive carrier throws up what they call
“rooster tails”.
BD: Lolladoff brought it back from Tibet around 1930 or
somewhere back then. And that’s in the Berlin Museum in East BR: Really?!
Berlin. Well, it’s now just Berlin. But I couldn’t even travel to
Berlin when I was there because I had cosmic clearance.
BD: Really!
KC: I have a question for you, Bob. In your speech did I
misunderstand you, or did you say that you had worked on BR: That’s impossible to imagine!
aircraft carriers?
BD: Yes. Well, you know what a rooster tail is.
BD: No. I have been on aircraft carriers. My son worked on
aircraft carriers for 12 years. BR: Yes. I do. Exactly, like you get with a little speedboat.
KC: OK. So that was how you got on aircraft carriers. BD: This massive carrier throws up rooster tails and this thing
goes, and they left the Russian trawler way the hell back there.
BD: Yes. I had two, what they know as Tiger cruises. Eric was And the Russians, I’m sure, are saying: What are they doing?
at sea for 12 years. He served on four separate Nimitz class You know. And the captain of the carrier is playing a game.
carriers.
BR: Yes.
Twice when they had completed their tour in the Pacific,
Mediterranean, wherever, they would come back to Pearl BD: Now they’re not taking aircraft aboard and launching
[Harbor] and they would re-stage so to speak at Pearl. And the aircraft at this moment because they slow down for that.
aircraft, the entire air wing on the carriers, would generally leave
the carrier there at Pearl Harbor and fly directly back to Alameda, BR: Of course.
to their air base.
BD: They threw up rooster tails, and Eric says it was really
And then the ship would then proceed from Pearl Harbor on to hilarious to be on the massive ship that he was on with 5,000
Alameda, which is in San Francisco Bay, and they would invite crewmen, for God’s sake. Can you imagine? A ship with 5,000
family members of crew members to come aboard at Pearl crew?
Harbor and ride with them from Pearl Harbor to Alameda.
BR: That’s incredible to imagine. But you can’t just do that with
KC: Great. screw propellers, can you? They must be doing something else.
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KC: There’s special technology, isn’t there? There would have electronic, electromagnetic buoys, and then the buoy would radio
to be. to the plane and the guys were flying around in the planes
monitoring the buoy and the buoy’s telling them what’s
BD: Oh, they have nuclear power. underneath. You know that story.
BR: Well, yes. BR: What year was this? About?
BD: They have nuclear power. BD: In the early ’90s. After ’91, before ’95. Somewhere in there.
KC: No. But also to part the water in front of you. [To Bill[ Isn’t BR: OK.
that the technology that Henry [Deacon] was talking about? [To
Bob] We have a witness that talked about this. KC: So what did he say?
BR: Yes. Henry was talking about that. BD: Anyhow, I said: Are you guys on top of the Soviets? Are you
following them? He says: Mr. Dean, he says, the minute they pull
BD: No, no. They didn’t part the water. They just rose up in out of harbor, we’re with them all the way.
speedboat fashion. They turned on the power with these nuclear
reactors. And they have, I think, four enormous 12- or 14-foot BR: Right.
screws back there.
BD: We monitor them from the moment they leave harbor until
Now, can you imagine 12- and 14-foot screws? And there are they go back.
four of them? Two on each side. And they’re tied to two nuclear
reactors? One reactor for two screws and another reactor for two BR: Of course. Yes.
screws, and they open it up, the power they’ve got. So anyway
they walked away from the trawler, he said, and it was hilarious.
BD: He says: The Soviets are no problem. He says: They’re big,
they’re lumbersome, they’re good, they’re fast. We don’t...
No one knows what they’ll do. Eric says: Pop, it’s over 50 miles
an hour along the ocean. Over 50 miles an hour!
KC: We have a witness that says there are some submarines,
though, off the coast of California right now.
BR: We heard, actually, that these things can do 80 knots.
BD: Well, there used to be Soviet subs on both coasts. They used
BD: I wouldn’t doubt that for a minute. to be on permanent station off the west coast, off the east coast.
And every time they’d take up station, we’d know exactly where
BR: I mean, which is very hard to believe. they were. And, literally, if push had come to shove, we could
have eliminated them immediately.
BD: Listen, did I share something? What this commander told
me at that cookout in Whidbey Island? This anti-submarine And some of them are what they call boomers. They launch
warfare officer that I had a chance to meet. missiles. And the Soviets got pretty good at it before they... well,
they’re still good at it.
We were drinking beer and eating clams. This was when my son
was assigned at Whidbey Island. His squadron was there. BR: Sure.
Whidbey Island is off the coast of Seattle there in Puget Sound.
Beautiful place. But there’s this good-sized Naval base there. BD: You know, the SS-18 that I knew about before I retired
from FEMA was... I lived in Tucson and the SS-18 had targeted
And I’m visiting the Whidbey Island at the time. It was kind of a Tucson because we had Titan missiles all around us there for a
sad story because my wife, Eric’s mother, and I were in the long time.
process of getting a divorce and we’d gone up there to share that
with Eric, to lay it out why we were divorcing. But getting back to the story, I asked this young man: Are the
Soviets a threat? And he said: No, not at all. We monitor them
Anyhow, during the cookout and the party and we’re all having a closely. We know where they are at any time. He says: They show
few, I bring up the subject of submarines, the Soviet submarine up big on our sonar, the whole nine yards.
threat, because I’d been reading about it, you know. The Soviets
had been building massive Typhoon type subs. We had emplaced sonar devices all over the Atlantic and all over
the Pacific -- God knows how much it cost -- where we could
And I asked the young man at the time, I said: Are you guys able monitor anything that was going on under the surface, on the
to stay on top of those things? I mean, do you monitor them well? surface.
And he was in anti-submarine warfare and that’s where... The Like Denny Blair said one time, he said to a Chinese admiral...
state of the art in those days was that they would drop these He says: I own the water and I own the air above the water. So
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don’t talk threateningly to me. And Denny Blair at that time was BD: Essentially they are not part of the physical reality at that
a 4-star admiral who was PAC COM, or CINC COM, Pacific moment.
commander-in-chief. CINCPAC, I think he called it.
BR: Yes.
Anyhow, getting on with the story, let me finish this. He says:
The one thing that interests us the most that we cannot figure out, BD: They are within a field that they have generated. And they
he says, are the underwater objects that are the size of aircraft do that out there.
carriers that are traveling over 200 miles an hour.
BR: Exactly. Yes.
And he says: That is our primary concern at the moment. He
says: We don’t know who they are, what they are, and what
they’re doing down there, but, he says, they’re traveling at BD: And that field protects and insulates them and they can go
enormous rates of speed under water and they’re the size of as fast as they want within that field. And essentially what we’re
aircraft carriers. monitoring is the field moving.
BR: Mm hm. BR: Exactly. Yes.
KC: Incredible. BD: OK. You’ve done your homework.
BD: And he says: Some of our naval scientists are beginning to BR: Yes, sure. Actually, 200 mph would be pretty slow
suspect that they’re the cause of what you know of as “rogue compared with what their capability would be.
waves”.
BD: Well, that’s what he shared with me.
BR: OK. Hm.
KC: And this admiral had how many stars? How many stars did
BD: He says: Do you know what a rogue wave is? this admiral you were talking to have?
I says: Well, I’ve heard about them. They come out of nowhere BD: At the time, this was a commander.
and they can turn ships upside-down. On a calm sea, you know,
there’s nothing out there, and all of a sudden there’s an 80-foot KC: Tell me the number of stars.
wave comes in. If the ship doesn’t hit it prow-on, it sometimes
can turn a good-sized vessel sideways or upside-down. BD: Commander... No, they don’t wear stars. Admirals wear
stars.
He says: But that troubles us.
KC: He wasn’t an admiral. I’m sorry, is admiral above or below
And this was in the early ’90s. We don’t really know what they commander?
are, who they are, or what they’re up to. All we know is they’re
fast and they’re big. BD: Well, let me give you a quick rundown here. My kid entered
the service as an Ensign, a little gold bar. In the Army we’d call
And I said: Well, I got a nagging suspicion of who they might be. that a Second Lieutenant. The next rank up is Lieutenant Junior
[laughs] But I... you know, I’m not an expert. I’m not really Grade, a little silver bar. In the Army we call that First
quotable. I could tell you who I think they might be. I’d come out Lieutenant.
of the closet, as it were, in ’91 and I was speaking publicly about
this phenomenon then. But that’s a little tidbit that I have on my The next step in the Navy would be Lieutenant Commander,
list of tidbits. that’s a little gold oak leaf. In the Army we’d call that a Major.
The next rank up in the Navy is Commander, wearing a silver
BR: That’s a lovely story. But if those were ET craft that can just oak leaf. And in the Army we call that rank Lieutenant Colonel.
go through the water like they can go through the air, that it’s a
fluid makes no difference, then you would expect them to be able The next rank up in the Navy is Captain, wearing a little silver
to go much faster than that. eagle, four stripes on his sleeve. In the Army we call that a Full
Colonel, “Bird Colonel”. The next step would be Brigadier
BD: Probably. General, one star. Major General, two stars. Lieutenant General,
3 stars. And General, 4 stars.
BR: They could go as fast as they wanted to.
The Admirals in the Navy: Rear Admiral, one star. Rear Admiral
BD: Considering, Bill, that they build... they put a field around Second Grade, 2 stars. Vice Admiral, 3 stars. And Full Admiral,
themselves. 4 stars.
BR: Yes. BR: OK.
427
KC: OK. Thank you very much for that. BD: The point is, they kept expecting them to come back to
retrieve their little crew.
BD: You’re welcome.
BR: And they should easily have been able to.
KC: We have gotten information from someone saying that they
think there was some problem with the Navy’s control of the ET BD: And of course they could have done it any time they
situation sometime over the last year, where they seem to be wanted.
losing ground or losing power within the factions, you know,
Army vs. Navy vs. Air Force. Is that true? It doesn’t ring true to BR: Yes.
me. But I wondered if you’ve heard anything about that.
BD: And they didn’t. And several cynics said: Hell, they didn’t
BD: All I’ve known is that at the very beginning of the whole give a damn one way or the other about retrieving that little guy.
damn thing that the Navy has been the primary service in this Because those little guys in many cases were not an evolved
whole thing. And I don’t know where it began. Probably back to species.
the fact that the Navy recovered a UFO off the coast of San
Diego in 1941.
The crash in northern Germany in 1962, Timmendorfer Strand,
on the Baltic. There were twelve little bodies aboard and the
KC: And we’ve never heard that story. Can you elaborate on that physicians who autopsied them said they were absolutely
one? identical and not one of them appeared to have anything that we
could recognize as a reproductive organ. So they began to be
BD: A lot of researchers are well aware of it. You know, you all suspicious that they might be laboratory products.
hear about Roswell and all that hoopdeedoo about Roswell, and
nobody seems to grasp that there wasn’t one crash and retrieval. BR: And expendable.
There were three crashes and retrievals. And there have been
crashes and retrievals all over the country, and all over the planet,
for years. BD: And the ones they grabbed at Roswell and Kingman and a
couple other places. Right across the river over there in Kingman,
Arizona, there was a crash.
And the military even reached the point some years ago, which
many of us who were in the service knew about, is that they
didn’t think they were crashing. They thought they were giving BR: Yes.
us hardware.
BD: They retrieved two of the little guys who were alive. They
BR: Hm. took ’em back. They kept thinking that “They” were gonna come
back and get them. And the cynics said: Hell, they just wrote
them off. Like the joke about the potato chips, they went back and
KC: [laughs] made more.
BD: Because in some places they found the object on the desert BR: Yes
floor, or wherever, fully intact. And in some cases there was
remnants of a crew aboard. And in other cases the object was
empty, no crew to be found. BD: Now that is... I find that kind of sad, really. When you
create an advanced creature that has the capability of functioning
as a crew member of a ship, the question that I come up with that
BR: Yes. troubles me somewhat from a spiritual point of view -- is there a
level of sentience in that creature? That someone would just write
BD: And they really began to be suspicious when they saw that. them off and let them go and leave them alone and forget it?
And they began, a couple of them said: Hey, it’s like they’re
giving us this hardware. KC: Well, our Mr. X said...
BR: Yes. BD: And then I had an experience in Southeast Asia when I
found out... [long pause] ... Excuse me. We left guys behind in
BD: They’re handing this us this technology. And in the cases of ’Nam. [voice choked up] I’m sorry. Forgive me. We left them
where there were little Grays aboard... And you’ve heard me say behind knowingly.
this, and this is common knowledge among researchers, that there
were little Grays aboard. BR: Yes.
There were survivors; there were two or three dead; one or two Voice: And they knew it going in.
were still alive. They hauled them off to where the hell is it?
Wright-Patterson. They had labs there at the time. They have labs
everywhere now. There are labs up the road here. BD: We signed this deal with the North Vietnamese. We had
made a promise that when we began to withdraw from Vietnam
we were gonna give the North Vietnamese a couple of billion
KC: Yes. Absolutely. [laughs] dollars in reparations. Did you know that story?
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BR: No, I didn’t. BD: There you are. IED. Anyhow, one went off right next to his
personnel carrier. Killed a couple of his friends; shook him up.
BD: We were gonna give them a couple of billion, so-called His brain was bruised and damaged, but the damage to his heart,
reparations for the damage we had done over Hanoi. Well, we they can’t... The VA’s got him under a complete care and support
never gave them a dime because our political people back in in Kansas, some clinic out there. My youngest grandson.
Washington got into a big knock-down drag-out brawl and said:
Not only no, but Hell no. We’re not giving them anything. But over the years you see these things. We’ve got people in
government, for God’s sake, that are capable of almost anything.
Well when we said that, the North Vietnamese said: Well, screw
you. You can kiss your boys goodbye. And there were several And I’ve had these young women come up to me... well, they’re
hundred of them. not so young anymore. They come up to me, who have been
grabbed and used in these experiments, for God’s sake. You’ve
BR: Yes. Sure. And they were regarded as being less valuable probably talked to some of them. And they come up and share
than... with me heartbreaking stories because they know that I can
understand, and I will be sympathetic or at least compassionate
enough to listen to them.
BD: They wrote them off like they didn’t have any value. And I
served for 27 years in the Army and I never met a man, Bill, in
all my years of service, that did not have value. We’ve got a government which I said Sunday: If you people think
you know the government you’ve got, you don’t know the
government you’ve got.
BR: Of course.
You talk about Black Government, Shadow Government. It
BD: The idea we’d leave them behind knowingly, and telling doesn’t matter what term you use. There are professionals in
their next of kin that they’re missing in action or they’re killed in power that function as government that no one ever elected, that
action, and those guys were in prison camps, alive, and could is not responsible or accountable to anybody, not to the House or
have been repatriated. the Senate or to the President or the American people. And many
of them are in the intelligence agencies.
Well then, this commentary about these little Grays began to
make some sense. They wrote them off. They went back and KC: But Bob, have you come across any overt Nazism in your
made more. experience?
Well, if you want to be a total cynic, as I’ve almost become over BD: Hell yes. Don’t you know that NASA was formed by
the years, we went back and made more. Nazis?
BR: Yes. KC: Well, we do, actually.
BD: And some of the ones we made are now dying in Iraq. BD: Well, that’s fairly common knowledge. You just never
realized how vast it was.
BR: Yes.
KC: All right.
BD: I have a grandson dying in Kansas, after his second tour in
Iraq. BD: You didn’t realize how... You all know about Wernher von
Braun. Wernher was just the number-one guy in that program.
KC: Oh really. There were at least a dozen if not more Nazis who were brought
in under...
BD: His heart is coming apart. His brain was scrambled.
KC: Did you know any of them?
KC: What from? Do you know?
BD: ...Paperclip. And many of them were prosecutable, who
BD: One of those whatever they call it, those improvised... should have been held up in front of the Nuremburg trials. And
we had them here and we gave them high pay, bought them
beautiful homes; brought them and their families, and they
KC: Bio-warfare? worked for the NASA program for years.
BD: IED. They’re bombs. They blow up. They improvise them; Well, it wasn’t merely NASA. We had a number of them
they put ’em beside the road. working in Central Intelligence. As a matter of fact, the CIA was
an offshoot of an old organization; I forget the name of it.
BR: Improvised Explosive Device.
KC: The OSS. [Office of Strategic Services]
429
BD: Strategic Service. That was built on a Nazi profile. That was BR: That’s interesting stuff.
built on a Nazi plan. And the old OSS had a whole bunch of
Nazis in it. So that when the war was over, we had planeloads of BD: Now, what a laboratory would look like to an archeologist
Nazis being flown out Germany, for Christ’s sake, to the United after 70,000 years, [Kerry laughs] I can’t imagine. But the very
States, being treated like celebrities. word was used. Tellinger said that apparently they discovered
what appears to be the remnants of an ancient laboratory adjacent
BR: Yes, that’s true. to an ancient gold mine. I didn’t hear the term 70,000 years. I just
heard that it was ancient.
BD: The only thing that never came out – their names. We
brought Nazis with their families and there’s a big joke going BR: It’s at least 70,000 years old.
around ... oh there are Nazis in Argentina. Bullshit. There are
Nazis in Washington, DC. There are Nazis in Hollywood, in BD: Really.
Beverly Hills.
BR: What I heard was about a year ago. They found some
But most of the old guys are gone now but their heirs are alive clearly artificial stone structures that were so old that the
and well. Many of them are in government. And if I were, if had mainstream archeologists couldn’t believe that they weren’t
my notes at hand, I could probably name a few for you. natural. But if you look at them, you’ve got what Tellinger
describes as South Africa’s Stonehenge.
I got up in front... Well, you were there. Didn’t you see me
Sunday? BD: Or older.
KC: Yes. BR: Yes. Much, much older.
BD: I stood up in front and held this folder filled with... Here’s BD: As colorful as Stonehenge is, it’s not that big. There are
my notes. I didn’t even get one-third of the way through there. things out there... Are you familiar with Nabta Playa? The site in
Egypt?
I wanted to share another tidbit with you while I think about it
because, you know... my mind at this stage. You push my button BR: No. I’m not.
and I go dancing around here. The point is there was another
piece of information I found tremendously interesting. A
researcher by the name of Tellinger in South Africa. BD: In southern Egypt? Nabta Playa? Oh my gosh! They’ve
discovered remnants of what was apparently a calendar in the
desert.
BR: Michael Tellinger.
BR: A calendar?
BD: You know Michael?
BD: A calendar. A stone calendar that’s laid out in the desert at a
BR: Not personally. place in southern Egypt, west of the Nile. I’m trying to place how
it is according to... where’s the dam?
BD: Oh, he’s brilliant.
BR: The Aswan Dam?
BR: I’ve listened to his story and seen his stuff.
BD: It’s south of Aswan and west of the river. And they found
BD: Well, have you heard the story he’s telling now? South this site called Nabta Playa. They estimate the age of this thing is
African archeologists have discovered what they think are 150,000 years old. But it’s a stone calendar. And when they
Anunnaki laboratories. recorded that and measured it and checked it out... and they’ve
done that.
BR: Yep.
There’s a book out called The Origin Map.
BD: Adjacent to an ancient gold mine.
BR: Right.
BR: That’s 70,000 years old.
BD: OK? I can’t remember the name of the author. [ed. note:
BD: At least. Thomas Brophy]. But you can find the book. The Origin Map.
This stone calendar apparently has a detailed map, not only of the
solar system, but the galaxy.
BR: Yes.
BR: Oh wonderful.
BD: I find that interesting.
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BD: It maps the galaxy! And they can determine the age of it BD: Oh yes, they were our people. And that Lieutenant Colonel,
because, by taking and computerizing what they found, the or Colonel, that Marine Colonel that we put there in charge of the
location and placement, they can age it, like going back, and museum? You know who I’m talking about?
that’s when they figured it was over 100,000 years old.
BR: I don’t, actually.
A map of the galaxy! Get the book, The Origin Map.
BD: We put a Marine Colonel in charge of the museum to look
BR: OK. Gotcha. after it and hopefully regain all of the stuff that had been looted.
BD: The writer escapes me. Find the book, read the book, then BR: OK.
find the author and interview him. What an interview that would
be! BD: And to safeguard it after the mob had left.
KC: Absolutely. Bob, I want to ask you a question. We saw BR: Yes.
Sitchin in L.A.
BD: Well that Lieu... This is probably going to get my ass into a
BD: Yes. jam, but that Marine Colonel knew exactly who those people in
that mob were.
KC: And he said to the audience... An audience member asked
him if the reason we went into Iraq was because of the Anunnaki. BR: OK.
And he hemmed and hawed and then he finally said: Yes.
BD: And they went in that museum and they walked away with
BD: He said Yes? I’m not surprised. specific items.
KC: Yes. What do you know about that? BR: Specific items?
BR: What his exact words were is – because I have a good BD: They had a list...
memory for details of conversations – the question was: Is the
war in Iraq connected in any way with the Anunnaki? And he
paused for a long time. And then he said: This answer is full of BR: Yes.
landmines, but yes. And then he didn’t say any more.
BD: ...of what to bring back from that museum.
BD: That old codger! I have tremendous admiration and respect
for him. BR: Yes. Shocking.
BR: Yes. BD: And so much of what was stolen [is] irreplaceable, worth its
weight in gold, or platinum, or...
BD: But I’m not at all surprised.
KC: But the question is, they took it somewhere.
BR: What did he mean? [laughs]
BD: Cylinder stones.
BD: Well, let me tell you what he might have meant. I can tell
you from what limited knowledge I have. I can tell you that most BR: Yes, exactly.
of the gang that tore apart and went through the Baghdad
Museum... KC: But you know, Dan Burisch says that we have the Looking
Glass technology on those cylinder stones. And that’s time-travel
KC: Mm hm. technology that you can get off the stones. And there’s a stargate
underneath in Iraq.
BD: ...were our people.
BD: Kerry, when you travel in space, you travel in time. You
BR: Of course. cannot separate space-time. Space-time, time-space, space-time,
it’s all the same. You cannot travel out there without traveling in
time.
BD: Oh, you knew that.
BR: Yes.
KC: Well, we figure...
BD: Time is not at all what we think. And you’ve heard this
BR: That’s been heavily surmised by people trying to figure out again and again and again, and I’ve been working to try to get my
what was really going on there.
431
mind to wrap around it and I can’t. But that yesterday and today BD: A human, a national entity of some kind?
and tomorrow, it’s all the same. There’s only one eternal Now.
Miriam: Yes, absolutely.
BR: Yes.
BD: All right. Well, I’m not surprised. I wouldn’t be at all
BD: Now I can’t wrap my poor old brain around that. [To Bill] surprised. They have learned that there is knowledge of ancient
Perhaps you can. [To Kerry] You ought to interview this guy societies’ traditions. You know, just to give you a brief example
[Bill] sometime. of the Dogon in Africa who knew all about – what the hell’s the
planet or the star out there?
KC: Oh, we’re going to.
BR: Sirius.
BD: Don’t put him on the... don’t let him do the interview. You
interview him! Miriam: The dog star.
KC: OK! [laughs] BD: Sirius A and Sirius B. We didn’t discover Sirius B until
what, 30 years ago? And the Dogon knew about it.
BD: Because I’ve already intuitively picked up on this dude that
he knows a hell of a lot more than he’s ever shared with BR: They knew all about it for thousands of years.
anybody!
BD: I mean that’s a tiny example. And the Nabta Playa thing out
KC: Exactly. there in the desert. The stuff that was rifled out of the museum in
Baghdad.
BD: I bring something up and he knows all about it already.
KC: What about the idea of a stargate in Iraq?
Ken: His poor old nimble brain sure draws a crowd, doesn’t it?
BD: I don’t think it’s there anymore, because they don’t need it.
BD: Anyhow. Where were we? Oh, we were at Nabta Playa. Stargates can be opened at any time, at any place by them, at
their choosing. They open a portal any time they want. And if
you don’t believe me, read The Search for the Skin Walker. [ed.
KC: No, we were in Iraq, and the Anunnaki. note: The Hunt for the Skinwalker] You know who George Napp
is? I hope you interview him.
BR: The cylinder seals.
BR: It’s the Skinwalker Ranch.
BD: Yes. The cylinder seals.
BD: The Skinwalker Ranch up in Utah.
KC: And the Anunnaki.
KC: Yes, I’ve heard him speak about it.
BD: Yes, well look, honey. I said this Sunday, didn’t I? The
Anunnaki are all around us. It was that crew that met Ike in ’54 at BD: Bob Bigelow who I’ve known for some years, billionaire in
Muroc. That was the Anunnaki, the same group that built Ur. It’s Vegas up here, paid out of pocket to establish a research center
the same group that built the ziggurat that poor old John Paul II up there at the Skinwalker Ranch for years and years and years.
wanted to visit before he died. And the book that George Knapp and the British scientist – I
can’t remember the name of the guy that worked with him [ed.
Miriam: I don’t know even a quarter of... I don’t even know an note: Colm Kelleher] -- was under contract with Bigelow for
eighth of what you all know and understand, but as you’re talking many years. The name is escaping me.
about this I seem to recall someone, somewhere, sharing with me
that the indigenous people all over the world are starting to have The Skinwalker Ranch story was just the tiny tip of a large
people visiting, trying to dig up their sites, and they are looking iceberg. That particular location apparently was a site selected by
for technologies. them. There’s some of them out there – and they come and go off
that particular location and have been doing it for centuries.
I am under the impression from my contact that I’ve had, that
part of this is – the reasoning behind it is – that there’s an The Indians have these stories that go back hundreds of years of
ultimate device that they are trying to find all of the parts for that “The Others” coming through these doorways. Well, they open
are all over the Earth. What do you know about that? the doorways any time and any place they want.
BD: Who’s doing the digging? I don’t think there’s anything left in Baghdad or in Iraq. I could
be wrong. There could be something underground that hasn’t
Miriam: I’m not sure what group it is that’s doing the digging been dug up yet. I know we had a team over there digging like
but it’s definitely... it’s definitely, you know, an organization. hell in Ur.
432
Miriam: Exactly. Yes. BD: Oh, bullshit. [laughter]
BD: I had the newspaper article, and I’ve got it with me, from KC: I can’t believe that.
the New York Times of poor old John Paul wanting, asking for
God’s sake, asking Saddam Hussein for permission... BD: Excuse me Cris, I’m sorry!
BR: Yes. BR: OK.
BD: ...to make what the Vatican considered a holy – what was BD: Well, he doesn’t speak it that well.
the word that I...?
BR: OK.
KC: Pilgrimage.
BD: He understands it.
BD: A holy pilgrimage to Ur!
KC: He may not write it... He doesn’t write it that well.
BR: That’s as weird as it gets, isn’t it?
BR: OK. That’s true, actually.
BD: Now, when you consider the meaning first of all, of
pilgrimage and holy – and this was in the release; the Vatican
said this – a holy pilgrimage to Ur before he died. BD: All right. You’ve talked to Cris, then?
BR: Yes. BR: No, we haven’t. We spoke to Luca Scantamburlo.
BD: And he asked Saddam Hussein for permission and the son KC: We’ve exchanged emails with Cristoforo.
of a bitch turned him down, wouldn’t allow him to come.
BD: Luca’s supposed to be here.
But the point is, what motivated John Paul II to want to make his
pilgrimage to Ur? Could it have been the information that BR: Luca?!
[Archbishop James] McIntyre gave to Pope Pius II?
BD: Luca’s supposed to be here. Get with...
KC: Exactly.
BR: We need to find out if... whether Luca’s here before we go.
BD: Because of the event that happened up at Muroc in ’54? OK.
BR: Yes.
KC: He’s not on the list to speak.
KC: But we have information the Vatican’s also had visitations
from a certain group. BR: No, he’s not on the list to speak. Um, Paola [Harris] would
know.
BD: Oh! Oh! Listen, they have! Of course! I’ve got it in my file.
I wanted to get to it Sunday and didn’t have time. I have a good BD: Yes. Talk to Paola. Talk to Paola because I think...
friend in Rome, Cristoforo Barbato.
BR: Let’s find out if he’s here.
BR: Barbato? You know him?
KC: So what is Cristoforo telling you? I mean, he knows all
KC: He’s a friend of yours? about Nibiru. Is he part of the...
BD: Yes, I’ve known Cris for years. BD: Well, Cris has gotten most of his information from a couple
of close friends who are Jesuits. And I’ve known Jesuits for
BR: You know him personally. OK. years. I used to sit and drink and have big parties with Jesuits
when I ran an Officer’s Club in Nuremburg years ago during the
Occupation. And the Jesuits are the scholars of Catholicism.
KC: We’ve been trying to interview him.
BR: Yes.
BD: Oh, he’s a dear young man. He’s bright and delightful. I
consider him a good friend.
BD: And they not only run the intelligence service, which I
jokingly said Sunday is probably one of the world’s finest, if not
BR: He told us he didn’t speak English. the finest because every damned Catholic priest in the world is a
433
member of the, you know, feeding information into the KC: But he’s gone into hiding. We were told they tried to get
intelligence service. him fired from his job. In fact he lost his job. He couldn’t get
another job. Did you hear that? Because he writes for magazines
BR: Yes. and they wouldn’t – they closed him down. He was talking too
much.
BD: So the Vatican’s got unpaid agents all over the damned
place. BD: Cris has had bumpy roads along the way and I don’t want to
put this on tape.
BR: Yes.
KC: All right.
BD: Anyhow, Cris has got this connection with these Jesuits in
Rome and they’re members of this, apparently, this Vatican BR: OK.
security organization. And they reached out to him. He didn’t
reach out to them, they reached out to him. It’s happened to me KC: But isn’t this the Vatican’s tactics? You know they broke
time and time again over my years. into our car when we were parked in the Milan airport.
And they wanted him to... because they knew he had people who BD: I’m not surprised.
listened to him, he had connections within the UFO community,
as it were. And they wanted him to know they are deeply, deeply KC: And it was right after we talked to Luca Scantamburlo.
involved with the Tenth Planet. They thought we had something. They thought he’d given us
something. He didn’t give us anything. But he was talking about
BR: Yes. Nibiru.
BD: And that the Vatican is deeply concerned about it. BD: You realize what a dynamite subject this is to the Vatican?
KC: Is there a chance it’s disinfo? Planted purposely? BR: Oh yes.
BD: Oh, you always have to face that, that you have in Miriam: By the way, the Vatican is a very interesting place.
intelligence operations over the years you always have the
problem of disinformation. Our authorities are good at it. There’s BD: Yes, they wouldn’t let me in.
always that possibility.
KC: Have you been there?
KC: The Vatican must be good at that as well.
Miriam: I think I was there last night in my visions.
BD: But the problem is, in such things you learn to sift and
weigh and evaluate, and you check other sources and you
compare this source with that source, and you try to end up BR: OK.
intuitively grasping for yourself: Is there any validity to this?
BD: I was denied access.
And after a time, and you work at it, and you learn after a while
to get pretty good at it because you develop your own inner gut KC: We’ll talk later, OK?
feeling -- which they call intuition -- that this is going good and
that ain’t. And I’ve learned over the years, the hard way, to weigh Miriam: You got that, right?
and sift and figure out what was right. I think the story is
basically true.
BD: I hope I didn’t say something too offensive.
KC: OK.
Miriam: Not at all. I can just feel someone calling me back to
that room.
BD: I’ve assumed, from what I...
Ken: I’ve gotta go, too.

BR: Yes.
Miriam: I just want to say thank you, because this is the first
KC: Does Barbato think it’s true? time I’ve had an opportunity to meet you and I understand now
why people think so highly of you. You’re very...
BD: Cris thinks it’s true.
BD: I wish I understood it. [laughs]
KC: OK.
BR: Yes.
434
Miriam: You are always weighing the possibilities and it’s such of at least two locations where there are bases underground.
an important aspect to keep in this field. And I just want to say Three, actually, that I’ve never talked about, ever. And I won’t
thank you. share that publicly.
BD: Let me just say one thing in closing. It’s all a spiritual But I do know of three locations and that they’ve been trying for
matter. You know that. years to get mining into those areas and they’ve been stopped
every time.
Miriam: That’s the only thing
BD: Well, it’s a hell of a... They’re not going to succeed. If they
BD: It has nothing to do with guys coming and going from dig in the wrong place, they’re up the creek.
different places.
Miriam: They are. They’re totally up the creek.
Miriam: It has nothing to do with it. And Kerry and Bill are
supporters of that, fully. BD: If they were to try mining in Mount Perdido in the Pyrenees,
they would run into a real mess.
BD: Oh, they know that.
BR: Yes. How do you know this, Bob, about Mount Hayes and
Miriam: And that is what I talk about to everyone that gives me Perdido? Where does your information come from?
the opportunity to do so. So thank you.
BD: A variety of sources. There’s one remote viewer that I
BD: Thank you. probably evaluate and trust.
Miriam: And I would love to stay but I feel someone calling me Ken: I’m going to catch up with you later. Thank you. Have a
back to that room. good trip.
KC: Actually you need to watch our interview with him. We’ve BR: Thank you.
got two very long interviews.
Ken: And I’m here to testify that Bob Dean is alive. He is not
BD: Yes. dead again.
KC: Fabulous. BD: Oh, that’s a rumor! That’s only a rumor. You’ve got to
interview Ingo Swann.
Miriam: OK. I will watch all of them in detail. And the only
other thing to say in closing is that there is mining going on all KC: Oh, you know it! I love the guy. I mean, we’re trying to
over the planet and everyone has this idea that it’s being done for interview him for a long, long time. I think he’s the best out
gold and silver and all of these other matters. But I have a feeling there.
that that is actually not what’s going on.
BD: Let me tell you a little vignette here, and then I have to go
If you take a look at the locations where all of this pit mining is to the Gentleman’s Lounge because I’m need of a – what is it
going on or where they’re trying to go, a lot of these areas are they call it? A flash of illumination? [laughter] And I have to go
sacred places. And I believe it is because they are trying to find to the men’s room to get it, you see.
the way underground, not just to an underground base or to create
one, but to the actual underground. And they’re trying to see if Ingo was taken to Mount Hayes by a chap by the name of James
it’s real. That’s what they’re trying to do. Axelrod...
BD: Well if they wanted to ask me some advice I would tell BR: Oh yes.
them to go to Mount Hayes, Alaska and just try to start mining.
You know what’s under Mount Hayes? [laughs] I’m sorry. BD: ...who at the time was Director of Special Programs in the
CIA. James Axelrod – I don’t know, James may be dead now.
Miriam: I know it’s a... Obama’s got an Axelrod in his staff! I don’t know whether
they’re related or not. Could be.
BD: I’m teasing you.
But James Axelrod was the Director of Special Programs in CIA
Miriam: A base? for some years ago, took old Ingo, after interviewing, using him,
asking him to assist them in some of their remote viewing --
which he did. Gave them information on the Moon that blew
BD: There is a major ET facility under Mount Hayes in Alaska. them away.
Miriam: Yes. Mm hm. Well, I know that they’ve been in certain

areas where they’ve been trying to get to, and I personally know
435
The point is, they took Ingo up to Mount Hayes to purposely BR: Yes.
demonstrate and show him the coming-in of a massive ET ship.
BD: There’s a place called Cabo San Lucas, I think in Puerto
BR: OK. Rico, which is just...
BD: And they watched it materialize over a lake... KC: Cabo San Lucas is in Baja.
BR: I heard that story. BD: Well, there’s also...
BD: ...at the base of Mount Hayes. KC: So maybe it’s the same name.
BR: I heard that story. Yes. BD: Maybe I’m wrong, but it sounds like Cabo San Lucas.
BD: OK. Now, Ingo didn’t at the time know where the hell he KC: It’s quite possible.
was, so he didn’t know where Mount Hayes was or anything like
it. But the ship materialized and it came in through time. BD: But there’s a major ET facility there. And the one that I find
most intriguing is the major US-ET joint operation in the
BR: Yes. Kwajalein Atoll in the Pacific.
BD: It wasn’t just a space ship; it was a time ship. And Axelrod BR: Yes. I’ve heard that. Kwajalein.
did it purposely to show Ingo what they were dealing with.
BD: We have a joint facility there on Kwajalein with them. I
And if you want to know about underground bases, the guy who would say it’s mostly with the same group.
first began to find out all about them was... Price.
KC: Which group?
BR: Pat Price.
BD: The Anunnaki .
BD: Pat Price. Pat’s gone for years now.
KC: The Anunnaki, meaning the tall...
BR: Yes.
BD: Well, that’s generic.
BD: He was a cop. Loved to have known him. He was my kind
of guy. Pat was the one – they said that they’d never got a remote KC: I mean, because some of these bases are Gray bases.
viewer as accurate as Price had been.
BD: Well, there are two Grays, you know. There are two groups
He came up initially with these locations, and he came up with of Grays.
four of them. One at Pine Gap, the other one at Mount Perdido,
the other one underground in Zimbabwe.
There are Grays that appear to be an evolved species. You know,
they bleed, they reproduce like we do. They’re almost human in a
BR: Oh really! I haven’t heard that one. sense. They’re five feet, sometimes taller, five and a half. Their
skin’s not gray, it’s kind of an off-white.
BD: Well, I’ve got notes. I’ve even got map photographs of
these locations in my files. It was in Alaska, Perdido in the KC: But their agendas...
Pyrenees, Pine Gap, Zimbabwe.
BD: They have round eyes.
I’ve learned from my connections with intelligence, and the Navy
people primarily, that there is a major ET facility on a mountain
in Puerto Rico. And there is a massive undersea location off KC: ...are different.
Puerto Rico in a place called the Puerto Rican Trench.
BD: And they are apparently benevolent people.
BR: Yes, which is very deep.
BR: Yes. Yes.
KC: Yes, they’re actually filming – I don’t know if it’s Jaime or
someone else – there’s a film-maker who films UFOs, the BD: But so are the ones supposedly from the Pleiades. Are they
evidence of the UFOs going in and out of the water. Right? benevolent? The indications we’ve received from people I say I
trust...
BD: Well, apparently they come in in a lake. They come out of a
lake in Puerto Rico. KC: Yes.
436
BD: ...is that... KC: Well, OK, but a lack of compassion is a lack of evolvement
in a species...
KC: It’s just there are some that are not, so it’s important to
make the distinction. BD: I think so.
BD: Listen, there are different groups with different agendas and KC: ...regardless of how evolved they are technologically.
they’re not in total agreement with each other. However, thank
God, thanking the big cheese in this, there are at least two groups, BR: Right. Just because you’re technologically smart doesn’t
perhaps three, that are supportive of us, that would like to see us mean you’re spiritually wise.
survive as a species.
BD: Yes. They don’t go together necessarily.
KC: Yes.
KC: The name of the game is it’s a spiritual game in the final
BD: And they appear to be working together. analysis. And they’re not winning that game just because they’re
technologically advanced.
BR: Yes.
BD: No, they’re not.
BD: Although they may have separate agendas, they do have an
agreement or an understanding among themselves that they’re KC: And that’s why they’re here – part of the reason.
going to have to help bring the human race through our transition
here. Which is not easy.
BD: It could be why they don’t like us very much. Because we
human beings appear to have a spark.
Yes, you’re right, there are different groups with different
agendas. I’ve been told that they all have their own agendas. And
some of them are not so nice. BR: Yes.
KC: Right. KC: Absolutely.
BD: We have encountered some that are not nice at all. I don’t BD: Humans have a spark of divinity within. Now I’m not
mean to say that they are purposefully malevolent. They just saying this – and I’m not telling you with any authority, but I’m
don’t like human beings. They look upon us like the... telling you there could be species out there that do not have that
spark of divinity.
A commander told me about two he worked with outside of
Nellis. They’re working with us, they respect us, they know that And the question is: Do they have a conscience? And the
we have a potential to be better than we are. They want to see us theological people will say: Do they have a soul? Hell, I don’t
make it. know. I’ve often wondered whether I had a soul. And until I
began my remote viewing and had my out-of-body experiences, I
was never quite certain of it.
But there are others that couldn’t care less whether we make it or
not. They are so advanced, apparently, not only technologically
but spiritually and socially, they’re at a point where they have But I do know now. Yes indeed, I do have a soul. And so do you,
very little compassion for us as a primitive species. and so do you.
Now how much compassion do we show to chimpanzees in the BR: I know that for sure.
zoo? How much compassion do we show to monkeys in the
wild? BD: I know you know that.
BR: Yes. BR: Bob, I want to ask you two quick questions, because we
have to go, and so do you. One question is about Ike and Muroc
BD: You know, do we show compassion to the Bonobo – or in 1954. Was there another meeting at Holloman?
whatever you call it? That group of chimps that are apparently
one step beyond regular chimps? The Bonobo – is those the ones BD: Yes.
that walk upright?
BR: Because some people talk about Holloman as well.
BR: Yes.
BD: Oh yes.
BD: How much compassion do we show to them? We put
needles in them; we put them in laboratories. BR: So there were two meetings. One was at Muroc and one was
at Holloman.
437
BD: Yes. Holloman. KC: Right.
BR: Which one was first? Muroc was first? BD: ...didn’t want it because it wasn’t time.
BD: Muroc, I think, was the first one, in ’54. Holloman was ’52 KC: Are you aware that there’s a change in the Magi, you know,
or ’53, maybe. [Ed note: Bob meant to say ’54, or ’55.] I think basically in that whole group?
Michael Salla has a list.
BD: Well...
BR: OK.
KC: And that they’ve gone through a transition, and they have
BD: If you’ve followed him, you saw his presentation? I don’t different leaders now?
know whether that’s totally accurate or not. It may be. But there
have been meetings at several bases over the years at different BD: Funerals take their toll on the Magi. [laughs]
places.
KC: Yes.
BR: Yes.
BD: As they used to say: Progress is measured by one funeral at
BD: And they were not all with the same group. a time. You’ve heard that?
BR: Of course. Yes. BR: Yes. [laughs]
BD: There’s a rumor and a story that I’ve heard repeatedly from KC: Yes.
different sources which I think might have some validity to it,
that Kennedy met a group from the Pleiades.
BR: That was Max Planck who said that. Yes. That’s right.
BR: Oh really? I had not heard that.
BD: The old scientists drop dead, and the new scientists come
out with a broader view and an open mind.
BD: That Kennedy met the Tall Blonds.
BR: Yep.
BR: OK. That’s interesting. That’s very interesting.
BD: Yes, the Magi has changed several times. The last I heard
KC: Well that makes sense. from sources, well, my friend at the Arlington Institute – is that
there are now about 40 of them. When they meet at the country
BD: Well, it all seems to fit, doesn’t it? club there in Virginia, they need more tables and chairs now.
They meet annually, supposedly. And as I jokingly say: It’s not A
BR: That’s great. country club, it’s THE country club.
BD: They’re pieces of an enormous jigsaw puzzle. And you start BR: THE country club. Yes.
putting them all together, and you think: Oh my God, look at that
picture. BD: An old retiree friend of mine who is at death’s door used to
run that place. He ran the bar; he ran the dining room.
I think that does make sense. I think Jack Kennedy met this
group, the Tall Blonds. Now, whether that was a contributing BR: Incredible.
factor to his death, I don’t know.
BD: And I asked him one time: Why the hell do you do that,
BR: OK. knowing what the hell they’re up to?
And he honestly said this to me. He says: Let me tell you.
BD: I do know that rumor continually surfaces that he planned He says: Neither one of us is stupid.
total disclosure before he died. There are people that even suspect He says: The perks are good.
that that was the reason he was killed. That’s the Wise Men. He says: I eat anything I want any time I want.
You’ve heard my term I use. He says: I smoke the very best cigars that are air-delivered to us
here from Cuba. The finest cigars, as good if not better than what
Castro smokes.
BR: The Wise Men. Yes? He says: We’re drinking the finest Scotch we can get from
Scotland.
BD: The Wise Men. The Magi... And he says: It’s so good that the Scots don’t export it and sell it.
They drink it themselves.
BR: Yes. And he says: We get cases of it from Scotland.
He says: Now here I am.
438
And he says: You, you old fart -- this was some years back -- told Obviously he has. And if he hasn’t been, God bless him,
me you like bourbon. I like Scotch. because...
So he says: I got the best cigars, I got the best Scotch, I got the
best steaks, and I got a place to live. I hope his Secret Service people are on their toes. Because if
He says: And I live in a comfortable suite at the Country Club. Obama tries to pull anything at all that is not in accordance with
All my bills are paid. their agenda, he’s up shit creek. And you may quote me!
And he says: My pension goes into the bank and I never touch it.
He says: Why the hell wouldn’t I do this? You would, too, if you
were given the chance. BR: We will quote you. [Kerry laughs] Just a little bit of
interest... just a tidbit for you here. We met somebody who met
Obama in the 1980s when Obama was 20-something years old.
And I jokingly said: Is there an opening? [laughter] Is there And he said that at that point Obama knew that he was going to
another job? l’lI work for you, you old bastard, you know. be president.
[laughter]
BD: He’d been selected.
We served together. We were in Korea together.
BR: Yes.
BR: Incredible. Did he know anything about what was discussed
in those meetings or was he not present?
BD: He has shown that confidence over the years.
BD: He had a vague idea of the agenda. Yes, they discussed...
You hear these rumors about, hell I forget what they call BR: Yes. And it wasn’t that he – what was really interesting – it
themselves, the Bilderbergers? And another group, The Council wasn’t that he knew that he would be in for a shot at the
of Foreign Relations? presidency. He knew he would be president.
BR: Yes. BD: Well, that’s what my old buddy told me. He said that they
pick them. And if they get to the office, they’ve been selected.
Now what Jack Kennedy did, I don’t know. I know Jack was put
BD: You find these wise men in all of those groups. They’re in there primarily by his old man’s money.
members of all of them. And there’s another, a third group that I
can’t remember.
Now, whether he changed his plans while he was in office? I
have no idea what happened there. Jim Marrs has got it all in his
BR: The Trilateral Commission. book.
BD: The Trilateral... BR: Oh yes.
BR: Yes. Commission. KC: Yes.
BD: And they’re represented on all of them. BD: I’m not surprised. You know I’ve learned enough about the
program and the process in the Shadow Government, and the
BR: Yes. ones who really call the shots. And I said to the people on
Sunday, I says: The government you think you’ve got’s not the
BD: And they literally – I don’t know whether this is true – I government you’ve got.
hate to go; I’ve gotta run. I don’t know – they said to me they
pick who runs for elections. BR: Yes. Exactly.
BR: Oh yes! BD: I wouldn’t be surprised, Bill, whether they’re pulling the
shots there, that they’re selecting. It wouldn’t surprise me
KC: Absolutely! because I know the same damned process is going on in the
Vatican. They picked the present Pope.
BD: Whoever’s in that White House has been approved.
BR: Of course. Yes.
BR: Yes.
BD: The Kraut, who had been a member of...
KC: Yes.
KC: Nazi.
BR: That’s the straight of it. They control the whole thing.
BD: ...Hitler’s youth when he was a kid. They selected. It’s a
game...
BD: And I look at this young man, bright young kid there that’s
living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Has he been approved?
BR: A rigged game.
439
KC: Absolutely. KC: Absolutely. We’ve been told we have protection.
BD: And we’re all chess pieces. BD: I’m not surprised. Well, I have! The reason I’m here, honey,
is that I’ve had a charmed life.
BR: Oh, yes.
KC: I know. I know. Well they chose well, didn’t they?
BD: And they move us around.
BD: Well, I look at you and I think you’re a pretty good-looking
BR: Yes. Sure. Yes. chick. Yes, I think they chose pretty well. Now, I’m surprised
you associate yourself with old cowboys like this one here.
[pointing to Bill]
BD: And I learned that I had been moved around before... Well,
I learned it finally in Vietnam.
BR: This is going in the transcript. [laughter]
BR: Yes. Of course.
KC: All right. All right. This has been great. Thank you, Bob.
BD: When I worked for this Colonel in special operations. I
knew then that I was a mere chess piece. That was when the BD: You guys are leaving, I understand?
beginnings of my old world really began to crumble.
KC: Yes, we’re on our way.
It started when I learned about “The Assessment.” My old world
view is gone. My old paradigm, I’ve swept it away. BR: We’re on our way out.
BR: Of course. Yes. BD: Well, it’s always a pleasure to see both of you again.
BD: My new world view is in a process of being formed, and BR: It’s a great pleasure, Bob. Thank you so much.
firmed up, and we’re discussing that right now.
BD: I feel like you’re almost family now.
BR: And your mission, which is ours also, is to help people let
go of their worldview so they can... KC: Yes.
BD: Well, I have been told... I have been flat told to get my ass - BR: Well, it feels like that.
- and it wasn’t merely my son. This comes from a number of
sources:...
KC: And give all our love to Marcia.
KC: Oh wow.
BD: I will. I will indeed. And you take care. Where’s your next
stop?
BD: You old fart, get off your dead ass and stop sitting there
stewing in your own juices and get the hell back out there and
talk about what you’ve been shown and the things you’ve been Bill and KC: We’re going to Sedona. Right now.
told.
KC: And we’ll do some editing there, and then he goes back to
And I’ve said it repeatedly, the reason I’m getting away with Europe, and I go to California.
some of the things I’m getting away with is that somebody there
wants me to do what I’m doing. BD: Well, how long are you going to be in Sedona?
BR: Exactly. KC: A little over two weeks.
BD: And I’m to a point, Bill, now, without becoming religious BD: Oh. Well, you have time to grab Peter Gersten.
here, where I honest-to-God believe that I’ve got good friends in
high places. KC: Oh really?
BR: Us too! We’re still here! BD: Yes. He lives there.
KC: We’re right there with you, Bob. KC: Well, OK. I’ve met his wife, but I know Peter Gersten best.
BD: Let me tell you something. You could not be accomplishing BD: Not unless he married her. I thought that they were living
what the two of you are doing unless what you’ve been doing has together. They lived in the same apartment complex, actually, for
been approved and encouraged by someone. a year.
440
KC: That’s interesting. You know him? BR: And we have. Yes. You, too. And if you ever have a chance
to talk to the Guy Upstairs, tell him that we appreciate him taking
BD: Oh, I’ve known Peter for years. care of us. [laughs]
KC: OK. BD: I speak to him regularly. I have an open line, as good if not
better than the Pope.
BR: Well, you have to grab that one. Yes.
BR: I think you do. Well, the Pope may be talking to somebody
else. We don’t know that...
KC: All right. Good idea.
KC: Yes well, that Pope.
BD: He’s one of the guys who said of me – and I’ve always
appreciated the compliment. He said: Bob Dean is the only UFO
researcher who never had a negative thing to say about any other BD: Well I would jokingly almost surmise... Well, I will surmise
UFO researcher. He said: Bob, I’ve never heard you say a that the Pope has representatives in PI-40. He’s got
negative thing about anybody. representatives in the wise men who gave him the country club.
I said: Well, you just haven’t been listening closely! [laughter] BR: Yes. I mean, he must have. He must have.
I’ve said a few!
KC: Yes, that’s what we hear. But that may not be a good thing.
If you can get hold of Peter Gersten, it would be worth it.
BD: Well, you know how it’s weighed. You know, good thing /
KC: OK. bad thing, the overall picture is in the middle.
BD: Do an interview. KC: OK.
KC: I hear you. OK. I take your advice very seriously. BR: OK.
BD: Listen guys, be safe. BD: I’ll see you guys later.
BR: Oh, we’ll be safe. We’ll be safe. KC: All right. Take care.
BD: You’ve got good friends in high places. BR: Take care, Bob...!
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Project Camelot:
Peter Levenda Interview Transcript
Sinister Forces
Audio interview, February 2009
Peter, I just want to say hello. Thank you so much for taking the
time with us today. I have to say I am incredibly impressed by
your writing style as well as your honesty as a researcher in the
way that you write. You actually remind me a little bit of Richard
Dolan, and I think you know who he is because you cite him a
couple of times in your work.
Peter Levenda (PL): Certainly. And thank you, thank you very
much for the introduction. I’m very happy to be part of this.
KC: Great. So what we wanted to do is give the listener basically

a background on where you come from, how you come at this
material, because I think that’s really important -- the fact that it
dovetails with a lot of what Richard Hoagland, Jim Marrs, Joseph
Farrell, and others are delving into, but may even have pre-dated
some of their work and their realizations in this area.
Peter Levenda came to our notice as the author of the powerful, And we’re talking about how the Nazis, how mind control, and
compelling, and well-researched Sinister Forces. This trilogy how... the direction America’s going and why we might be going
explores the unsavory links between the Nazis, the occult, mind in a certain direction, and what the underpinning occult
control and modern American politics, and asks deep and significance is of all that. And I think your background is just
uncomfortable questions about what forces underlie and may really stellar in this regard. So please just go from here and tell us
control global events. where you come from and where you’ve been going with all of
this.
Peter Levenda was researching the Nazi connection to American
politics and secret societies as early as the Nixon administration, PL: Well, I’ll try. I tried, back in the 1970s, during the Watergate
and he summarized his findings in a highly regarded book called era, to write a book that was going to explore the relationship
Unholy Alliance. Currently, Jim Marrs, Richard Hoagland and between religion and politics, which is a nexus that’s always
Joseph Farrell are among those also involved in researching these fascinated me. We tend in the United States to think of them as
same dark forces that surfaced in our everyday lives during the two separate entities.
administration of George W. Bush, and which remain as an
important question for the direction of this country with the But during Watergate I began to see a lot of the same
newly elected Barack Obama. personalities crop up that we had run across during, oh, the
Kennedy assassinations and all of that, and I started to see deeper
We feel fortunate to have stumbled upon Peter Levenda's and deeper parallels.
impeccable research, which connects the dots between the agenda
of the Illuminati, the Nazi influence within black projects and the So there was a book that came out in 1960, long before
US government, and the role of the occult and mind control in Watergate, called The Morning of the Magicians. It was written
what is becoming the new world we are living in where the very by two Frenchman, Pauwels and Bergier, and it talked a great
foundation of freedom is being attacked and curtailed, deal in there about a Nazi / occult connection, but it was not
threatening our humanity at every juncture. documented at all. And I thought: That would make a great
chapter [Kerry laughs] in the book that I was planning. Let me
write something about the Nazis and religion, or Nazis and
Start of Interview occultism or mysticism.
Kerry Cassidy (KC): This is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, and And I went down to the National Archives in Washington, DC.
we’re with Project Camelot. We’re here on Thursday, February This was right at the height of Watergate. Nixon was still in
12, 2009, and we’ve got Peter Levenda. He is a wonderful power. He was about to leave. It was a month or two before he
researcher and author. He’s very well known for his book, left, so the whole thing was at fever pitch in Washington.
Sinister Forces, which apparently is a three-book series. Also for
his previous book called Unholy Alliance, delving into the But, oblivious to that in a sense, I was at the National Archives
background of the Nazis. looking at captured German documents. As I was in the National
Archives, the archivist there, a very famous archivist -- anyone
who studied the Nazis back in the ’70s and ’80s would have
442
known about Dr. Wolfe -- when he found out what I was trying to And as I was allowed to leave, which was touch-and-go for a
do, he suggested that I look at the records of an organization while, all the way back to Santiago, to the capital where I had my
called the SS Ahnenerbe, which was actually a division of the SS hotel room, I was stopped along the way. I was in a bus and I was
that was specifically concerned with occult and mystical stopped along the way by troops who had set up roadblocks, who
research. I was stunned. were making sure that I was on that bus. When I got back to my
hotel room, there was a note waiting for me that said I was on the
He led me to the microfilm rolls. I started going through the next plane, that a reservation had been made.
machines. And here I realized -- my jaw dropped -- I was looking
at the actual documentation of a full-fledged Nazi program to So the amount of influence that the Nazi network had in 1979...
investigate occultism. ’79 was so many years after the end of World War Two, you
know. We’re talking 25 years later. They still had such great
Other authors had talked about a Nazi / occult connection. The influence in a country so far away as Chile that I began to see
book, The Morning of the Magicians, talked about it at length, there was a lot more going on than even I suspected. And that
but there was no documentation at all. And some of the other eventually became Unholy Alliance.
books that had come out at that time, for instance, The Spear of
Destiny, and some of the others, talked extensively about this but I began to see the connections between governments in Bolivia,
there was no documentation. Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, an extensive Nazi network, a lot of
money that had left the Third Reich when the Nazis had lost the
So it seemed like speculation until suddenly I’m staring at all the war.
documents -- page after page after page of research in Tibet,
Tibet expeditions. There was research to find the Holy Grail. I began to realize that the Nazi Party was not a political party the
There was all sorts of bizarre SS programs that were being way we understand political parties, but that the Nazi Party was a
financed heavily by the Nazis during World War Two. cult. If you look at it from that point of view, you can understand
the true nature of this kind of evil, because the Nazi Party is...
So it got me thinking that maybe there is a lot of documentation they’re not going to go away simply because they lost the war.
in the world. Maybe you can find evidence of all of this without
having to speculate too much. So the Nazi documentation got me The old war criminals who escaped -- and some of them are still
very excited. alive. A few of them have died recently in South America, in
Chile and Argentina. They have their followers. They have their
I lived in New York City at the time. I’m from New York City. I philosophy, their ideology.
was talking to a lot of friends of mine who had their roots in
Latin America and South America. I read a book by Ladislas Bill Ryan (BR): Forgive me for interrupting you, Peter.
Farago called Aftermath, which is about the survival of war
criminals, Nazi war criminals, in South America. PL: Sure.
And I came across the mentioning of a weird establishment in BR: But it sounds implicit in what you’re saying, then, that they
Chile called Colonia Dignidad the Colony of Righteousness. This have support from deep within the governments of those South
was supposed to be a kind of Nazi safe-house which was also a American countries.
weird religious group, high up in the Andes Mountains. And I
thought: This is just too good to pass up. PL: Well, sure. I mean, it depends on which regime is in power
at any given time. But let’s take the example of Bolivia. Klaus
So here not only do I have the documentation from World War Barbie, who was the “Butcher of Leon” in France, who was a
Two, but now I have a real live Nazi sanctuary in South America man responsible for all sorts of war crimes in France, at one point
which is also a religious operation, which is exactly what I was became the chief of the secret police of Bolivia. I mean, he had a
writing about. federally-appointed position in that government.
So I decided to go to Chile -- this was in 1979 -- and see this Walter Rauff lived for a very long time in Chile. Walter Rauff
place for myself. This was during the time of the Pinochet was the man who designed the mobile gas chambers, the vans
dictatorship. There was martial law in the country, but I managed that were used to re-channel the exhaust into the vans to kill
to make my way down to a small town halfway down the coast of prisoners.
Chile called Parral. And close to this small town is the colony,
Colonia Dignidad. I mean, all of these people found safe haven, not only in South
America, but in the Middle East and in Asia as well, and to a
I managed to go up there. The story is told at length in my book, certain extent in Australia.
Unholy Alliance. But I managed to go there on a Sunday morning
in June of ’79, and I as briefly detained. I was kept there. I was KC: And in the United States as well.
forbidden to leave. My passport was taken. The film was taken
out of my camera. PL: Absolutely. Certainly. Of course we’ve had many cases here
in the United States of war criminals that we’ve found,
I was told by the Germans -- These were Germans. These were uncovered, and occasionally shipped back.
not Chilenos. These were not Spanish people -- I was told by the
Germans that I was not welcome in the country, that I had to A famous one, which got me very involved in the story, was the
leave Chile immediately. man who for a long time was the head of the Romanian Orthodox
Church in the United States. Here was an Archbishop who during
World War Two had been a member of the... what was the
443
name... the Iron Cross? The Iron Arrow, I think, a Romanian We have operations in which we are trying to understand how the
Nazi organization, who had tortured prisoners. mind works and then to control it. Like a sorcerer’s apprentice,
our intelligence agencies stuck their fingers into human
Here was a man who was a devoted Nazi, who after the war was consciousness and started playing around with the contents.
over fled to the United States, and although he had no seminarial
training as far as I’ve been able to uncover, he managed to take BR: What’s the answer to your own question, Peter, which you
over one branch of the Romanian Orthodox Church in our posed just a couple of minutes ago? About how... I think the
country, in the Midwest, and was not even discovered until words you used were: How America could have sold its soul to
maybe 20 years ago, when he was forced to leave the country. the extent where it not only brought these Nazi scientists over to
American shores to give them great jobs but actually, seemingly,
So yeah, we’ve helped a lot of people escape. The Catholic embraced their whole agenda and took it much further?
Church, also, to a certain extent was involved in that, in an
operation called Caritas during World War Two, which provided Were there evil forces at work in America during the Second
Vatican passports to help some of the more famous war criminals World War? Or was this something that was opportunistic
escape to South America. So there was a lot of collaboration. because they realized the magic that they certainly held in their
hands and thought that they could use this to their own ends, and
And even in our own country, in the United States, we had it was too great a temptation to resist?
Operation Paperclip, in which we brought Nazi scientists over to
help with our space program, among other things. PL: Well, I think, as usual, the causes take place on different
levels simultaneously. I think to point in one direction only might
So that got me working on what eventually became Sinister be a mistake. I think sometimes it’s desired that we do look in a
Forces. I began to wonder how was it that we in the United States certain direction and not look in another one -- the idea of
could have sold our souls so easily to something as heinous as a misdirection.
criminal organization like the SS, and to the Nazis in general, to
bring their scientists over here, to make them work for us, and I talk about sinister forces. I mean, that’s the title of my series,
really to give them great jobs, to give them positions in our and I took that title from Watergate because that’s how I started
industry. this research. And “sinister forces” were blamed for that famous
18.5 minute tape gap on the Oval Office tapes, on Nixon’s office
Walter Dornberger is an example, who held a job on the board of tapes, where there was suddenly a big gap and no one knew what
directors of Bell Helicopter. All sorts of people. People who he had said.
worked for the Space Medicine Program in Texas, at Randolph
Air Force Base. There’s a very big story there. I think it was Alexander Haig or Buzhardt who had said the tape,
the hissing sound on the tape was the result of sinister forces.
KC: Right. And that has tentacles that go to the whole mind And I liked that idea, that there was something darker at work.
control aspect. I think that you cover that really wonderfully in
Sinister Forces. I mean, I can’t imagine what you do in Book Two I think that in many cases what we see around us is theater, a
and Book Three, but I have to say that that’s really a huge story. kind of theater, and that there are forces that are deeper, darker,
less visible, manipulating events. Or I like to think that what we
PL: Well, I develop the same ideas. In Book Two I focus a lot on call coincidence and synchronicity is evidence of the action of a
the Charles Manson family, as a kind of quintessential example darker force or a deeper force.
of what sinister forces might be from the behavior modification /
mind control aspect. BR: And are these forces also much more ancient? Because of
course there are many researchers, possibly yourself, who
And then in Book Three I sort of lay out what I think is the whole conclude that this whole thing, this whole dark agenda, had its
story and how this works. I connect serial killers to mind control roots 2,000 or even 3,000 years ago and it’s been growing
operations and try to understand. steadily since then.
I mean, our country, the CIA in particular in the 1950s, 1960s, all KC: Well actually in your book you’re talking about going back
the way up through until about Watergate, until the 1970s and the into the mounds in America, so you’re going back thousands if
Rockefeller investigations, was involved in one of the most not millions of years. Right?
bizarre experiments of modern times.
PL: Certainly.
I mean, here we were, trying to figure out how the human
consciousness worked, how to understand memory, volition. KC: And there’s also the allusion to Egypt and the pyramids.
How do we erase a person’s memory, implant new memories? And you’re talking about, you actually have to get to possible
How do we make a person do something they would not off-world cultures, and how we humans, how humanity began on
ordinarily do -- for instance, commit an assassination? And then this planet, when you go that deep, really.
forget about it and not know why they did it?
PL: Well, when I started looking at the burial mounds... The idea
I mean, this was something like a medieval king, you might of the Indian burial mounds came to me sheerly by accident,
think, hiring alchemists and magicians, you know, to contact the because I was researching Manson and I decided to go where
other world. We were doing that in the 1950s and ’60s and Charles Manson had grown up, which was a town called Ashland
probably still are today. in Kentucky.
444
I was struck by the fact that there were Indian burial mounds anything like that, [laughs] but just really in the middle of
right in the center of town. And I started to research that, nowhere.
wondering what did that mean? I had never really come across
this before. This was brand new to me. So the multiplication of these events, to me, is an indication that
something else is at work, that maybe we need a quantum
I started to look at the fact that these mounds are all over the consciousness approach to history itself, not just to our own
United States, especially east of the Mississippi, but also west of minds in a kind of theoretical way or a spiritual...
the Mississippi to a certain extent.
KC: Absolutely. Absolutely.
I was struck by the fact that there was actually an ancient
civilization in America, in North America, that we have no clue PL: History. Yep.
about. It was just as ancient as anything that was taking place in
the Middle East. The earthworks that they built were in some KC: You’re talking about Puharich. I’m not sure how you say
cases more grand and a lot larger than the pyramids, and we his name.
know so little about it.
PL: Puharich.
I began to look at America as a kind of haunted house, and I
began to ask myself: What forces are there really at work here? BR: Puharich.
The coincidences that we come across, especially a conspiracy KC: And that opens a can of worms around the mind control and
theorist... Anybody who begins to investigate -- the Kennedy how the mind control itself seems to stem from those early
assassination is probably the most famous example -- will come beginnings and the consciousness that supposedly Puharich
across dozens and then hundreds and then maybe thousands of actually got into contact -- those “Nine” people -- of which there
“coincidental” connections, between people, places, and events, are people that have written books since then and gotten involved
which drives them crazy. in supposedly being in contact with, if not those intelligences,
then others. Some call them the Giza Intelligences. So it’s all
A regular historian, a mainstream historian’s going to say: Well, going back to somewhere back there, as well.
that was a coincidence; and that was a coincidence; and that was
a coincidence, and dismiss them all because he cannot see a real PL: Well, yeah. I mean, if you begin with Puharich, you can see
cause-and-effect relationship. the contours of what I’m talking about quite clearly, because here
was a man who was a researcher into the paranormal, but he was
also a captain in the U. S. Army and a medial doctor, all of these
things all together. And this was all during the Korean War.
Here was a man who was giving lectures to the military on how
to weaponize ESP, you know, how to use man’s telekinetic and
telepathic powers as a weapon in the fight in the Cold War.
At the same time, he’s holding a séance or a series of séances at a

farmhouse in Maine to which he’s invited a handful of people.
But the people he’s invited are some of the wealthiest families in
America, the most powerful families in America, “blue-bloods”, I
mean, who are descended from the signers of the Declaration of
Independence.
The thing that fascinates me about this is that this is thoroughly

documented stuff. There’s no speculation about this at all.
Anyone can go and look it up and find out for themselves that
these people did meet, they conducted the séance, they were in
contact with some extraterrestrial or supernatural group of beings
But to me, and it happens to all of us who investigate these which called themselves “The Nine.”
things, we find ourselves bedeviled by these coincidences.
And we’re talking about people who were also tangentially
I mean, I was researching Sinister Forces for a while in Asia. I involved in the Kennedy assassination which would take place
was in Southeast Asia in remote areas and I would walk into an ten, fifteen years after these events. I mean, it’s stunning. I mean,
old second-hand bookstore and find books that I needed for my you ask yourself: What is the connection? How could this
research. They were books maybe on Charles Manson or possibly be?
something that I had never heard of before. Scholarly texts would
suddenly appear. Or texts would appear that had been written and BR: Yes. What did you think of Picknett and Prince’s book, The
printed privately by someone involved with the group that I call Stargate Conspiracy, that you must have read as part of your
“The Nine”. research?
All of this stuff would fall into my hands even though I was in PL: I did read The Stargate Conspiracy and I wanted to shout at
the middle of nowhere, nowhere near any sort of academic Picknett and Prince: Just go a little bit further! Go just a little bit
structure, nowhere near a Barnes and Noble bookstore or
445
more and you will see the connections right back to the Kennedy kind of spiritual evolution, this jumpstarting of evolution, if you
assassination. will.
I was thrilled that they were writing about these events, about BR: OK.
“The Nine” also. They were writing about Puharich. They had
mentioned him. They had mentioned this group, but they had not KC: And this was also a take-off on basically what the Illuminati
drawn the connection. They had not connected the dot between, had been, their philosophy since the beginning of the group that
for instance, Arthur Young, who was a prominent member of we call the Illuminati, of which these families are all part?
“The Nine”, a man who invented the Bell Helicopter, which I had
mentioned just a little while ago as having been involved with PL: Well, that’s the implication. I mean, otherwise... Why are
Nazi scientists... these people, as I said before, some of the wealthiest individuals
in the United States, in Maine, in a barn, in the woods, on New
BR: When you talk about “The Nine”, are you talking about a Year’s Eve, when they could have been anywhere else in the
human group, or an off-world group? Or is this an allusion to two world? They had the money, they had the wherewithal, they had
groups of nine? the connections. Instead, they’re holding séances in the freezing
cold, in the winter, in this barn.
PL: Well, when I talk about “The Nine”, I’m focusing first on
the human group because those are the names of the people that What is the motivation for this? What is the purpose? How did
we know. But of course they were considered to be the Earthly they know each other? We don’t know so much about that. We
representatives of this spiritual or extraterrestrial group that know that Puharich was the guy bringing them all together for the
called themselves “The Nine.” séance and they willingly went and took part in this endeavor, not
just once but several times.
BR: OK. What is that Earthly group of nine?
So their motivation, on their own? I don’t know. I wouldn’t want
PL: Well, “The Nine” included families -- for instance, Arthur to speculate except to say we’re talking about the most powerful
Young and his wife, Ruth Forbes Paine Young, who is a relative people in our country at the time.
of John Kerry’s, as a matter of fact – John Forbes Kerry. So we
have Arthur Young and his wife, Ruth Forbes Paine Young. BR: And the analogy that you’re drawing here is that there’s
good evidence that the Nazis were doing something similar, both
We have a DuPont, we have an Astor, all as part of this group as before and during the war, and yet you’re saying that this practice
well as Puharich. So the Astor family was there -- a very wealthy of powerful individuals from powerful families in a powerful
American and British family, the Astors. Of course everyone nation-state are suddenly doing the same thing several decades
knows the Astors and the Waldorf Astoria, etcetera, etcetera. later.
John Jacob Astor was on the Titanic. So we have the Astor
family. PL: Well, yes. I mean, less than ten years later. If we count the
end of World War Two as ’45, these people were meeting in the
We have the DuPonts, of course – extremely powerful, wealthy, early 1950s.
influential American family. And we have the Forbes -- as in
Forbes Magazine, Steve Forbes, and all of that. That family was And what Himmler was doing, himself... I went and visited in
represented. Germany the castle that he had renovated called Wewelsburg. It’s
near the town of Paderborn in Germany. And this castle was
Her name was Ruth Forbes Paine. Paine was one of the original developed by him to be a kind of Vatican for the SS. It was going
signers of the Declaration of Independence. She is a direct to be their spiritual headquarters.
descent along that line by marriage. And Arthur Young himself,
the inventor of the Bell Helicopter. He was conducting very similar rituals there. He had duplicated a
kind of “Roundtable”, a sort of Arthurian, Camelot kind of idea.
So you have a family grouping here of some of the most There would be 12 knights around it, which were the highest
aristocratic family names in America. If we had royalty, they ranking SS officers.
would DuPonts and Astors, Forbes, and Paines.
They would gather in meditation at this table, in a room which
BR: Did they call themselves “The Nine”? Or is this your term was directly over a crypt, and in the crypt would be placed urns
for them? I mean, did they have an agenda or some kind of thesis containing the ashes of SS officers as they died, the high ranking
or reason for being together and were recognized as a group of ones. There was special niche for each one. There were swastikas
that size? engraved in the floors, and the whole nine yards.
PL: Well, they called themselves “The Nine” in this fashion: And so, the similar idea of meditation, of trying to contact
They held a séance. Puharich was conducting a séance. He had a supernatural beings to guide the SS, was now being duplicated by
medium from India, a Dr. Vinod, and Vinod was in telepathic a group called “The Nine.”
communication with a group of beings that was somehow in
space, hovering over the Earth, and there were nine of them. And if we think in terms of race -- you know the SS, like all the
Nazis, were obsessed with race and racial purity -- suddenly with
And they told the group of nine individuals: We are nine, and you “The Nine” we have, as I said, the blue-blood of American
are nine, therefore you are the Brahmins who are going to bring families, DuPonts, Astors, Paines, Forbes. We have this gathering
a new wave of enlightenment, or a new wave of evolution to the of the... for want of a better word, the most racially acceptable, to
planet. We’re going to use you as our vehicle for causing this the Nazis, grouping in guided meditations in the woods doing the
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same thing. Except there were not twelve in this case. There were counseling at their Human Freedom Center in Berkeley and left
nine, very specifically. them to join SRI to study psychic phenomena.
So I’m not trying to draw too close a connection between what The group that he was working with, Elmer and Deanna Mertle,
the Nazis were doing and “The Nine.” The practices were quite after he left them, a few weeks after Targ left them to join SRI,
similar. It was a group séance. It was a meditation. It was the Mertles were found dead, murdered execution-style in their
something to do with evolution of the race. So you have a lot of home. So the connection between Targ, SRI, and Jonestown is
the same themes. definite. What it means, we don’t know.
KC: OK. But what you also, I think, continued to investigate is But we do know that Targ worked with the Mertles, which was a
to find out where that information that they were receiving from group of survivors of the Jonestown massacre, people who had
“The Nine” went from there. Because I believe there is a trail that left the Jim Jones church, The People’s Temple, and were trying
connects through SRI [ed note: Stanford Research Institute] and to raise consciousness against it. They had written a book about
Hal Puthoff and Ingo Swann... The People’s Temple and Targ was working with them. He left to
join SRI and a couple of weeks later, the Mertles were dead,
PL: Sure. murdered execution-style.
KC: ...remote viewing, and actually then circles back and also KC: So you have to also say that with all of this what happens is
has to do with people that were involved in mind control then some people will fall on working for the positive and some will
utilizing some of that information? And/or is it guiding, for be working actually for the negative agenda, within the fact that
example, the agenda of the Illuminati to this day? there are connections between these organizations -- because
there is very definite connection between the CIA and SRI. And
PL: Well, it certainly did make that route that you just described, between Puharich and CIA. So you get all these connections with
and the connective tissue in all of this, of course, is Andrija CIA. Gordon Novel, the Kennedy assassination. All of these link
Puharich. Puharich was the man largely credited with having back to the CIA. So it gets really convoluted. It’s really
discovered Uri Geller, for instance, the famous Israeli psychic. fascinating.
He brought Geller to SRI in California to be tested.
I know that you’ve studied the occult in great depth. Have you
There was also a connection with SRI and that grouping, with the come to any conclusions? Are you going down some trails now
people at Jonestown. The connections are vast with all of this, that perhaps are not publicized?
and if you start pulling at the threads, you become extremely
paranoid. PL: Well, not publicized to the point that I don’t quite know how
to explain all of this yet in any way that makes any kind of sense
BR: What’s the connection with Jonestown? from an academic point of view, but it has occurred to me during
this kind of research... As I mentioned before, I consider
PL: Well, yes. In Volume Two I have about 100 pages alone just coincidence and synchronicity to be evidence of the operation of
on Jonestown because the amount of work that has yet to be done these forces.
just to decode that event is still leaning on us. We really know
very little about what really happened at Jonestown. I think that these forces are there and I think that groups of
human beings from time to time make a conscious effort to
Slowly but surely more and more information has been revealed contact these forces, to manipulate them, to use them for their
over the last 20 years or so, some of it by a good friend of mine own advantages.
called Jim Hogan, an investigative journalist who spent a lot of
time researching Jonestown and came up with some of the CIA I think that the CIA did that with MKULTRA and Operation
documents to verify that Jim Jones himself was some kind of Bluebird and all of the mind control experiments they did.
contract agent with the CIA. He had what’s called a 201 File at
CIA. So we know there was a connection there. If you take a human being and you try to manipulate their
consciousness, you try to erase their memories, replace their
But as far as the connection with SRI, I think it was Russell Targ memories, program them as assassins, as an example, then what
-- if I’m not mistaken, I believe it’s Russell Targ who was the you’re doing is, you’re essentially initiating that human being.
man who was involved with both Jonestown and SRI and Hal
Puthoff. I mean, you’re putting them through a kind of spiritual initiation,
but with none of the safeguards, with none of the spiritual
BR: Yes. preparation that a person would normally go through to become
protected against whatever demons are invoked in the process. So
KC: There’s also the link back to Puharich as working for the it was a very irresponsible, callous, cruel program that the CIA
CIA. had undertaken at that time.
PL: Yes. As far as Uri Geller was concerned, Geller always said KC: Irresponsible or actually intentional? I mean, that’s really
that Puharich was his handler for the CIA. He made that the question, isn’t it, of the heads of the CIA, If they knew what
statement several times. they were getting into? And they were invoking these negative
forces, in essence, and bringing them into the bodies of
But as far as SRI’s concerned, Russell Targ, the physicist who programmed assassins -- and some of which are actually sleeper
was part of the SRI group, by his own admission was involved agents that may indeed be part of our society at the moment,
with a group of Jonestown survivors. He was director of sitting around waiting to be triggered.
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BR: I read that book several times and it rang very, very true to
In essence what you’re looking at could be an intentional agenda. me.
And that’s where it gets very interesting when you’re starting to
look at the future and what we’re actually faced with. PL: Yeah. It was not a sensationalistic thing that she was making
up. I really do believe what she said happened had happened.
PL: Well, yeah. I mean, I think one of the good indications of
just how bad it got was the man who was for a long time in KC: So where are you going now with everything? Because you
charge of this program at the CIA, called Sydney Gottlieb, Dr. don’t really keep your blog up. You had been talking about
Sydney Gottlieb... When the MKULTRA project was McCain as a possible mind control victim, and I think there’s
“disbanded” by Richard Helms in the mid-1970s, Gottlieb went a great evidence to that effect. I’d be interested to hear what you
little weird. He at one point became a Buddhist monk. He went to have to say about Obama. I don’t know what your current
India. He tried to essentially pay for his sins. situation is. The Powers That Be, are they aware of you? Have
they made your life difficult? Because you seem to be one of the
He wouldn’t talk about this program anymore but he became a best researchers actually pulling these threads together in one
kind of recluse and was obviously trying to live simply. He was place.
living off the land. He was living in a farmhouse, I believe in
Virginia, after he came back from India. He was a man who was BR: And what does this mean for us at the beginning of 2009,
shattered by the realizations of what he had done, by the sins that looking at the next few years, and what this may mean for this
he had committed against other human beings. country and the world?
So if the leader, if the creator, or the handmaiden of this PL: Yeah. These are very good questions. I took a little time out
operation felt that way, I wonder what the actual day-to-day for a while to get a graduate degree in religion and the thesis that
perpetrators felt, the people who were actually involved in the I wrote, I published as Stairway to Heaven, which came out about
day-to-day programming of these individuals. a year ago. I have another book on the Freemasons which is
coming out in April. I’ve kept my hand in all of this but I’ve been
I think there is a tremendous amount of evidence to suggest that doing a lot of academic-type work on the one hand, and then a lot
Sirhan Sirhan was just exactly one of those assassins who had of investigative work, on the other.
been created. I’ve gone through Sirhan’s diaries, the diaries he
was keeping up to the point he was arrested for the assassination The political situation: The way I look at it these days, as I
of Senator Robert Kennedy. mentioned before, is theater. It is basically theater. We are
watching a play being acted out in front of us, and we’re all
BR: And he has no idea what happened, does he? willing or unwilling audience members in this play.
PL: He doesn’t. I mean, he admits he did it because he figures, I think we have to not believe a lot of what we see, as being
you know, he did it. I mean, if he’s arrested for it and he was “real.” It’s a kind of consensus reality. We all kind of agree that
there, he must have done it. But he has no memory of it. And his certain things are real and certain things are not.
diaries are extremely suggestive of someone who’s been through
a behavior modification program, something like a mind control And I always like to talk about the root of the word reality,
program. It’s fascinating stuff. because the word comes from a very interesting Indo-European
root which also gives us royal. It gives us what is real and what
BR: I read a wonderful book which I’ve got. I also had the is royal. And basically what that means is, to me: “Whatever the
experience of what I guess you could call the International king says is real is real.”
Library Angel suddenly depositing a book at your feet when
you’re traveling. [laughs] It was a book by Long John Nebel who In other words, there’s a kind of agreement that we all enter into,
was the Art Bell radio host of his day, who operated in the 1950s, a kind of contract where we agree that certain things are, and
who wrote an amazing book about the Control of Candy Jones. certain things are not, real. And I think we’ve come to the point
You must be familiar with that. where we have to revisit what we call real. We have to revisit
reality to a certain extent. We have to come up with a new
PL: Yeah, I do. I’m fascinated by that account as well and I think paradigm, a new way of looking at reality, because it’s not
it’s genuine. It’s been attacked, of course, by other researchers working for us, the old way of looking at it.
and authors by saying that Long John Nebel kind of made it up or
Candy Jones never went through this. We’re too easily manipulated. Our country has made a science of
the manipulation of reality since at least the Korean War, if not
But if you really go through as I do, which is the thing that I do, before.
is I go through and I try to document what goes on. I met Candy
Jones a couple of years before she died. I was actually Communication science, which is being taught in the universities
interviewed by her on radio in New York City. all across the country, came into being as a result of World War
Two and psychological warfare studies. I mean, the same guys
And from my point of view, what she discusses, especially her who created psychological warfare for use during the war were
trips in Asia and Taiwan, have the absolute ring of truth. I mean, the guys who in the private sector developed programs for
I lived in Asia for a long time. I traveled in those countries. The teaching advertising, marketing, and communication.
things that she discusses I believe actually did occur. I think that
she did not make them up. I can recognize the places she’s BR: Mm hm.
talking about.
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PL: So we are really struggling with psychological warfare being

directed against by manipulating our reality. I mean, things have ramped up to the point where paranoia, fear,
anxiety, stress levels have increased so exponentially, it’s as if
KC: Right. A form of propaganda and mind control in and of someone wants us to have this collective nervous breakdown. We
itself, just as television becomes in a sense a mind control tool. have to take a stand and fight against it.
PL: On a massive, massive scale. I used to live, as I mentioned, I think that if my research has shown nothing [else], it’s shown
in Asia, and we would get CNN out there. I don’t want to single that humans who are involved in this quite often don’t really
out CNN particularly for opprobrium, but they are sort of an understand it that well themselves. I’m talking about the CIA.
international news organization that you can pick up on cable
channels all over the world. I don’t think that the people who ran MKULTRA really
understood the full ramifications of what they were doing. They
There was one particular instance where I’m in Kuala Lumpur had a very narrow focus. They wanted to create deniable
and there was a riot going on on CNN, on television, in a assassins, as an example, and that was their focus. They didn’t
restaurant. It was being carried live. And we’re looking at the realize the other forces they were unleashing at the time.
television screen, and we’re at the site where this riot is supposed
to be taking place. And there’s no riot there! [Kerry laughs] And I think that there are paths, there are shamanistic paths, there
are paths in the occult that might be actually beneficial for us to
We’re watching and we’re all looking at each other. We’re investigate to understand how we’ve been manipulated, how our
watching the screen and we’re saying: What is this? consciousness has been manipulated, our reality itself has been
manipulated. I think we have a chance because there is such an
It turns out there were three or four people in a corner somewhere amount of information available.
and a camera was on them. And the way it looked, it looked as if
there were all of these really angry people rioting. But we are headed into a very dangerous impasse, a very
dangerous place. I agree. But I think that we don’t realize how
I was getting a phone call from friends of mine saying: Go away! much power we have as individual human beings, or as small
Get out! There’s a riot taking place. We can see it on television. groups of individual human beings, to combat this madness. And
And we’re all sitting in the restaurant saying: Well, where’s the I think we can take back our minds and our lives from these
riot? forces, from these sinister forces.
You know, there is no riot. I mean, it was manufactured news, BR: Are you able to say anything, do you feel, about the role of
essentially. And if that happened that one time, how many other the Vatican?
times has this happened? How much of our news is being
manipulated or controlled or created, you know, as we watch it? PL: Ah... [laughter] How much time do you have?
KC: Right, but as a researcher going into this as deeply as you BR: You know about the work of Eric Phelps and that large
have, you must be able to look towards the future and come to body of research that he, among many others, represents. I just
certain conclusions, and / or think about certain uninvestigated wondered if you could pull some of those threads together once
trails to look down. again for the benefit of our listeners who would like to see as
much of a summary of the big picture as you are able to present
I am curious: Do you think, for example, there are sleeper here.
agents? Because, you know, we keep having these incidents
happen and they seem to be evidence of mind control operations, PL: Right. I grew up as a Roman Catholic. I was born into a
in which you have school kids suddenly flipping out, and so on Catholic family in the pre-Vatican II days. And when Vatican II
and so forth. Where’s it all headed? happened, I was actually kind of disappointed. I didn’t like all of
the, you know, guitar-playing Masses that were taking place and
PL: Well, if we characterize the agents of this madness as all this stuff. I felt a little cheated of the mystery, somehow.
individual human beings, we might be missing something darker
and something deeper. I believe that there are individual agents, But then, as I started to research the Nazi information, that’s
of course, and that’s what I investigate. That’s what I write about. when Phase One of my disenchantment or dis-enlightenment, or
That’s where the evidence leads me. whatever you want to call it, took place.
But sometimes I think that there is something else at work here. I And that was understanding the degree to which elements within
think that there is a kind of level of consciousness that is creating the Vatican had assisted war criminals with hideous records to
this for us as well, and that we’re victims of it because we escape; how they protected them at safe-houses throughout
haven’t learned how to fight back. We haven’t learned how to Europe and then in Latin America; how they gave them Vatican
take control of our own consciousness. We’re essentially passports; how we had the spectacle of Nazi war criminals
allowing others to do that for us. dressed as priests entering Argentina, entering Brazil, in one case
performing a marriage ceremony as a priest.
I think that we have a kind of responsibility, perhaps now more
than ever, because the information is available to us, of fighting I mean, I can’t even imagine what that poor family would have
back by taking control of our own minds, and taking back control felt, had they known that it was a man responsible for the deaths
of our own consciousness, of trying to deprogram ourselves, if of hundreds if not thousands of people blessing their union as a
you will, away from what we’re being fed on an almost hysterical fake priest. So all of this began to... that was Phase One.
basis.
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Phase Two was realizing that what we’ve been told about When I was growing up in the Bronx in the 1960s, I saw with my
Christianity itself, particularly about the Catholic Church, is own eyes the influence that churches had with intelligence
based on so much disinformation and so much manipulation of agencies, and intelligence agencies with the churches. I mean, I
history and historical facts that we really don’t know what the witnessed it as a young man of 18, 19 years old, working with a
Catholic Church is any more, or what it ever was. We don’t know church in the Bronx that was heavily involved with intelligence
what’s going on there. operations, which was actually a front for intelligence operations.
I mean, the Vatican scandals... The Masonic scandals, the And that brings us back again to David Ferrie and Jack Martin
Propaganda Due, the P2 Masonic scandal alone should have and the Kennedy assassinations, because I met the Bishops who
alerted people to the degree of perfidy and cupidity that was ordained and consecrated David Ferrie, Jack Martin, all these
taking place within the Vatican. peripheral figures that you saw in the movie JFK, you know,
being played by Joe Pesche, being played by Walter Matthau, I
I mean, we had Licio Gelli and Roberto Calvi, all of these think.
characters who were heavily involved in the Vatican and at the
same time financing right-wing terror squads, assassination These were people who were heavily involved in a church. They
squads, in Europe, in Latin America, working with Francisco were also involved in intelligence activities. They were also
Franco -- the dictator of Spain for so many years -- heavily involved in anti-Castro Cuban activities and considered to be
involved with fascist organizations and operations. involved, in one way, shape, or form, with the assassination of a
president in Dallas.
It was mind-numbing, the extent to which this was taking place.
So I have a very hard time. You know, I’m thankfully a very So the nexus between religious organizations and intelligence
lapsed Catholic. You know, I want to stay that way. I can’t organizations is thick. It’s just thick, you know.
believe that I would go to the Bishops, Archbishops of the
Catholic Church and accept spiritual guidance from people whose And like I say, I saw it with my own eyes. I know the church that
own morals and ethics I have to question on almost a daily basis. Ferrie and Martin belonged to in 1968 when Jim Garrison was
starting ramping up that investigation into the Kennedy
KC: Well, also there’s a link between the Vatican, the Illuminati, assassination. David Ferrie died mysteriously, but he was a priest
and the US government, apparently. Can you talk about that a and a Bishop with one of these churches. So...
little bit? Because when you’re talking about the Nazi influence
in America, and you’re talking also about The Powers That Be KC: Don’t you also get into, maybe, what’s going on with the
with Paperclip, the Ultimate Space Program, and all of the levels agenda, in terms of how this plays out? For example, in the
at which the Vatican is involved... From what I understand their economy of the world going downhill, and the desire for the One
secret service was basically the model upon which secret services World Government. And how there’re certain problems being
all over the world have been built. created so that a solution can be created, as you know possibly
David Icke’s work in that area?
PL: Well, sure. In fact, even the SS... the Nazis emulated the
Jesuits. I mean, Himmler wanted to create a Jesuit Order for So what I’m wondering is, are you following those threads?
himself, and that was what the SS was, hence the black uniforms, Obviously you see the economy going down in America and
and the rituals in the churches, and the rituals at night in the around the world. There are sacrifices, blood sacrifices. Some of
forests, and all this other stuff. It was a kind of pagan Jesuit these things, or maybe even all of them, are actually planned as
Order that Himmler was trying to create. some kinds of sacrifices to these hidden, dark entities in order to
make certain things happen upon this planet.
I mean, people may have disliked or even hated the Catholic
Church or the Vatican, but there was so much of it that they PL: Well, if we don’t characterize the economic situation as a
wanted to emulate, that they wanted to duplicate. But the problem purely economic situation, I think we can see more clearly what’s
is that we have so much information to discuss that it would take taking place. In a previous era, this might have been a vast
hours to get into it. I’ll just bring up one or two points that will be military conflict. It might have been a World War Three, or a
enough to scare you, and probably... World War Four or something.
I think the place to look in the beginning, if you want to see the Now we’re fighting that same war but we’re using economics to
connection between the Vatican, Nazis, and even the Illuminati, do it. This is a different approach to the same type of general
would be the Knights of Malta and some of the other chivalric control that’s being exerted over the world.
orders that the Vatican maintains and supports.
I mean, the whole world cannot go broke. The money is
I won’t even go into Opus Dei which is a whole other kettle of somewhere. That’s the funny thing. The humorous part of this
fish by itself. I mean, we’re talking about a man who created that thing, if you want to be funny about it... that fact, you know,
order who had pro-fascist, pro-Franco sentiments. I mean, there’s we’re thinking the whole world economy is going down. But
no question about it. And how he could be canonized is basically what happens, especially with capitalism, is somebody
absolutely beyond me. gets rich and somebody gets poor. So who’s getting rich?
But anyway, look at the Knights of Malta. Look at the connection During Watergate we were told to follow the money. And I think
between the leaders of the CIA, many of whom were Roman if we follow the money today, we can find out who’s doing what
Catholics, members of the Knights of Malta or members of one to whom. We can find out who’s actually doing this kind of
of the other chivalric orders around the Vatican. control.
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I’ve been looking at it. I’ve been trying. Following the money in KC: And it is a basically a fete accompli in the minds of many,
today’s economy is extremely difficult to do. I think even even behind the scenes, with Richard Hoagland and his
members of congress are finding themselves totally unable to investigation into NASA and the symbolism there, and the
even explain what’s happening. Some of them are not able. Some Paperclip background behind, you know, the space program. So
of them are strictly not willing. the agenda seems to have been a kind of fascism that stemmed
out of World War Two and is being continued today.
But if we can follow the money, if we can start pulling the
threads on the money over the last 12 to 18 months, we can But where is that going? Once they have total control, then what?
probably figure out who’s behind this thing. You know, it’s almost like they already have total control as it is.
One wonders: What next?
For me, it’s been very difficult to do although I’ve been trying to
cover it. I think the answer is out there. I think, as Fox Mulder And the only thing we’ve gotten so far in our study of this
used to say: The truth is out there. But we have to look at the mystery is the idea of population elimination. In other words,
evidence, and the evidence is there. It’s just it’s very hard to they want to eliminate large segments of the population. They
figure out. haven’t been able to do so with other means, with viruses and so
on.
If we’re talking about manipulation of the world economy, it’s
because we’re being prepared for something else. Obviously In other words, this control you’re talking about has to lead to
there’s an agenda. It’s not strictly to make some people rich at the some thing, because control is something they’ve, in a sense,
expense of others. That’s been going on forever. We don’t need a always had. But they’re tightening it, and as you say, they’re
collapse in the world economy to do that. consolidating it. So with what purpose in mind?
So if a collapse is being engineered in the world economy, it’s to PL: Well, that’s another good question and it’s something, too,
create a circumstance or a set of circumstances conducive to that would probably take a long time to try to analyze. I think that
another phase of action which has nothing to do with the “The Powers That Be” are not 100% happy yet. They don’t really
economy. As you said, it might be a One World Government -- feel they have the kind of control they would like.
possibly. It might be something more heinous than that.
Part of the reason for that is the explosion of technology, which
A collapse of the economy may be a way to keep in place the seems to be getting out of control. You don’t notice it perhaps as
types of controls that were put into our government during the much in this country as you would overseas where this kind of
last eight years. It may be a way of preempting any kind of technology, the internet in particular, has given people at the
change that we thought we were voting for -- some of us anyway. grassroots level a voice they never had before.
So there may be a way to...
So the governments in those parts of the world, especially in
As 9/11 essentially was a Reichstag fire which gave the president developing countries, are struggling very hard to control the
total control of the government, in terms of the Patriot Act and technology and control access to information.
everything else, the collapse in the economy is essentially another
9/11, and it’s going to give the government additional powers Right now we are talking over the internet and this will be
that it never had. available on the internet, so people who want to can hear it. But
this kind of control eventually will probably have to be extended
BR: It’s just another kind of controlled demolition. over what we’re doing over the internet, over the free exchange
of information.
PL: It’s another kind of controlled demolition. It’s a... what’s the
word I’m looking for... a consolidation of all of this. I think it’s already started and I think it’s going to continue until
there is control over information. And once you control
If we put the Patriot Act and some of the other things that took information, you control reality. You control consciousness.
place -- the wiretaps, the illegal stuff that’s been going on -- and Once the independent operators are gone, once they’ve been
we now couple that with government control of banks and closed down, there will only be the party line that’s left.
corporations, you know, we have fascism.
BR: That’s 1984, isn’t it?
Some people are talking about creating socialism or communism
here, but fascism is also a wedding between the state and the PL: Well, it is 1984. Some people listening to this are gonna say
corporation. It’s not just socialism that we’re talking about. to themselves: You know, these are the aluminum hat people.
You know, the tin-foil hats. We’re all worried about vast
The one thing that nobody wants to talk about is the fact that conspiracies taking control.
we’ve been creeping closer and closer to fascism in the last 40 or
50 years. And that scares me, believe it or not, more than I want to tell you something, to the listeners who maybe think
socialism does or even communism. What frightens me most is a that at times this is out in left field. I was on somewhat friendly
kind of fascism, an American style of fascism. terms with a man called Norman Mailer, a famous author, one of
America’s most famous novelists and journalists and authors,
KC: Well, I mean, this is the premise of Jim Marrs’ book, as you who passed away recently -- a man I admired very much. He was
know. kind enough to praise my own work and write a foreword to
Unholy Alliance.
PL: Yes.
451
He spoke in my presence about the fact that America was We can talk about 9/11 -- for instance, we can talk about
heading towards fascism. Many people of that social setting, conspiracies. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that what
other authors, some of them Pulitzer Prize-winning authors, happened, the effect of it, was that we lost more liberty, we lost
people who are understood to be great thinkers, great members of more privacy.
the intelligencia, have all said the same thing to me or in my
presence, that we are heading towards fascism, that America... KC: Right. And so then that gets back to the overall agenda.
According to Norman mailer, back a couple of years ago, he said PL: Yes
America was in what he called a pre-fascist condition, but that we
were heading inexorably towards fascism. Other authors since KC: And it’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s a conspiracy fact when
then have said the same thing. you look at all the evidence. And what’s happening is that this
particular agenda is being rolled out.
So this is not something that only a handful of people on the
absolute fringe are feeling. These are things that are being felt on And, of course, it’s very heartening that you do talk about how
other levels by other people who are not involved in this kind of consciousness and the role of consciousness was getting out of
investigation, people who are not doing this kind of research, the hands of the people in MKULTRA, such that people like
people who have just opened their eyes and who’ve looked Gottlieb himself, who was certainly one of the masterminds
around and said: My goodness, this is what’s going on. We’re behind all of that, goes on his own sojourn to India, looking for
becoming a fascist country. some kind of spiritual way out, I think, of the responsibility for
which he... You know, it’s basically like walking around in some
BR: One of the things that confuses people sometimes, as you kind of living hell, I’m sure, being inside that guy’s head.
must be well aware, is the idea that somehow there’s a spectrum
with socialism on the left and fascism on the right and the two are And so, in essence, all of this is playing out in the microcosm
very different. Actually, they meet in the middle, kind of loop around the globe, not just America, because I see it in many
round in a kind of circle, one going to the left and one going to countries. In fact, England has the best surveillance system on the
the right. Extreme socialism and extreme fascism are actually streets, cameras, etcetera. So what’s happening is, on some level
very similar. it seems to be manifesting in America sort of in a more overt
way. But in a covert way, it’s actually existed in small countries,
PL: That’s the point I was just going to make. To have fascism under despots that were financed by the CIA, and then across the
or to have socialism, you have to have a marriage between the globe, masterminding the governments behind countries like
state and business. I mean, that’s how it’s done. Switzerland, and so on.
Either the government owns the means of production as it does in PL: Well, I mean, what’s very amusing to me in a sardonic sort
a socialist or a communist country, or the state and the of way is the fact that in the United States if you talk about
corporations have a working relationship, a nice working conspiracies, you’re pooh-poohed. You’re shot down. It’s
relationship, as Eisenhower warned us about when he left office. considered, you know, paranoid fantasy.
He talked about the military / industrial complex and how
frightened he was that that was happening. That is fascism. And yet we recognize without hesitation the fact that conspiracies
like this exist in every other country on the planet. Right? So
So, does it matter to the average person whether or not the when Benazir Bhutto, the former prime minister of Pakistan, was
government owns the means of production or the government and gunned down last year in Pakistan, everyone said of course it was
the state and the corporations are in bed together? Does it really a conspiracy. There were elements of the Pakistani secret police
matter to us on the street? involved. Al Quaeda may be involved, or the Taliban, or who
knows what. But automatically it was a conspiracy.
It’s going to be the same effect. We’re still going to be
controlled. Our economy’s going to be controlled. Our freedoms However, according to mainstream historians, not a single person
are going to be drastically curtailed. So in the end, what assassinated in this country has ever been assassinated by a
difference does it make? conspiracy! [laughs] No conspiracy. Nothing to see here. Move
along. Right? We have this idea somehow that the U. S. is
I’ve talked to people about 9/11 a lot. There’s been, of course, a immune to these events.
lot of discussion about 9/11. And I’ve always said it was a
Reichstag fire. It’s what happened in Germany. How Hitler took And yet we overthrow dictators in foreign countries. We’ve
complete control of the government was the Reichstag burned overthrown and committed assassinations in Guatemala, in Iran
down and he blamed the communists for it. back in the days of the Shah. We overthrew the government of
Allende in Chile. We put Pinochet in power. All of these things
And my point was, do we really care who burned down the we do on a regular basis and we’ve done it for years and years
Reichstag at this point? All we really care about is the fact that it and years. And yet somehow it doesn’t take place inside the
brought Hitler to power. United States. Why is that? Why is it so impossible to believe?
So in our case, what did 9/11 do? It pushed all of these heinous KC: Right. And I think, though, nowadays it’s a lot easier to sort
attacks on our liberty and our privacy. It pushed them right into of get people to, not so much believe, but really understand the
the forefront. It made it acceptable. That’s what happened. That roots of conspiracy. And ever since the death of Kennedy I think
was the real effect of all of this. that America’s eyes have slowly been opened along those lines,
at least many. Although certainly 9/11, you still get people not
able to accept the possibility that a conspiracy took place there.
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more connections, and I’m sure I’ll have something like this to
So again, I guess we’ve gone full circle with you. In many ways share with you soon.
we’re going over some material here that is just... the roots are
everywhere. The conspiracies, if you will, are everywhere. KC: That’s fabulous. One thing I do want to ask you, the book
you were talking about that you investigated the occult quite
It’s very heartening to know that you are behind the wheel, deeply...
investigating all of this and documenting it and pulling as many
threads together as you are. I encourage people to follow your PL: I was involved with it. Yeah. The Necronomicon. Of course.
work. I certainly want to read a lot more that you’ve written. I mean, I made no secret of that. I’ve done some interviews based
on that. That was an occult work that, I think today it’s one of the
PL: Where I’m going now? I’m still in the midst of all of this, critical texts, probably, of the mid-20th century on occultism. It’s
you know? I’m still in the midst of researching. I don’t know been reviled by a lot of people. People claim it’s a hoax. Other
what my next book will be. people say it’s a very terrible book, or it’s a very powerful work.
As I had mentioned, I have a book on Freemasons coming out in I look at it as the survival of an old Middle Eastern occult
April, which is kind of a look at the connection between the practice which involved a process of initiations, going through a
Masonic society and the Mormons, and some of the occultism series of “gates”, gaining greater and greater illumination or
that was taking place in our country before, during, and after the enlightenment at each time, each passing of the “gate”. It’s an
Revolution, the American Revolution. So I look at the interesting book and the events around it were interesting as well.
connections that were there.
KC: We’ll have to revisit that with you because I’m fascinated
It’s kind of a general look at Freemasonry. I’m not a Freemason by that as well.
myself, of course. That’s coming out in April.
PL: Sure.
Stairway to Heaven was really more about Kabbalah and Chinese
alchemy and that sort of thing, a very spiritually oriented book KC: Well, thank you, Peter. This has been fascinating. We’re
trying to understand some of the implications of some of the both really very interested in what you’re gonna be doing in the
ancient writings. future, as well as to get into your work after this conversation.
And thank you for taking the time today to talk to us.
So, where I’m going to go from here? I’m constantly collecting
information. I’m constantly building up files of data, trying to see PL: It was my pleasure. Thank you very much.
.
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Project Camelot:
George Green - Telephone Interview Transcript
24 February 2009
banks, in other words, making the government be the authority on
the money.
The truth is that’s what the Constitution says in the first place.
Right? It says that the government itself would issue money.
What we’ve done is created this edifice called the Federal
Reserve System which in turn then, all dollars are loaned out at
interest, back to the Federal Reserve, the private bank system.
Now here’s the things that are coming up as of you and I are
speaking, for instance. The market is dropping predictably. I’m
saying it’s going to go down to about 3,500 when they probably
George Green (GG): Good morning. quit trading at all because nobody’s buying stocks right now
except for the mutual funds and the 401Ks. Most of those people
Kerry Cassidy (KC): [laughs] Hi there. How are you? have lost between 50 to 70% of their asset value. Even Warren
Buffet’s account is down 50% from what he had, and people
aren’t talking about that.
GG: Hi there. Oh now you’re... I can really talk to a person.
The next thing you have to understand is, the derivative market
KC: [laughs] has been driving... the derivatives, as I’ve been talking about for
years, are the Achilles heel, basically. Everything’s gonna
Bill Ryan (BR): You can talk to two people, George. Good collapse on that.
morning to you.
Well, right now we’ve gone through two years of kind of an
GG: Well, you’re really very clear right now. That’s good. unwinding of the housing market. Well, today one of the Federal
Reserve members said that they expect the housing market to
KC: Okay, fabulous. So this is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan drop between another 23 to 25%. That’s within the next year. So
from Project Camelot, Tuesday the... that’s going to affect a lot of people. They’re going to be upside
down.
BR: Twenty fourth.
Now, the people who have already gone back in and borrowed
money from the last stimulus deal, half of those houses are in
KC: ...the 24th of February, and it’s around 9:30 in the morning. foreclosure again. This is only in a few months.
BR: And it’s 2009. KC: Oh wow.
KC: [laughs] So, George, what we’re trying to do here is get an GG: And this is all public document, to give you an idea.
update from you because there’s so much going on in the Meanwhile, when I was with my banker friends the other day,
financial sector that I know you have your finger on the pulse. they’re very concerned because they have not talked about the
We really want to hear what you think is happening, when you derivative exposure on the commercial real estate market.
think this thing is really going to crash, and just a little more,
notes about how people can prepare.
If you’re going across the country right now, commercial
properties are being boarded up. Shopping centers are going into
GG: Well, let’s start at the position right now. You know they foreclosure and that’s about another... a rough number is $400
just authorized a $787 billion stimulus program which really billion we’re going to be looking at in the derivative rescue, if
comes down to... So people understand what that is, it would buy you’re going to look at it just from that.
about four million homes in the United States. Or you could send
everybody in the United States $2,623. That should give you an
idea. Or it would buy 28 million cars at the average price, to give But there’s about 400 trillion of derivatives which are holding up
you an idea what they’re doing. the credit card industry. In other words, they pooled together all
the money, sold it off to foreign investors.
Meanwhile, they’re creating it out of thin air. And they’re getting
close to everything when they’re talking about nationalizing the The meeting this week with Hillary over with Japan and Korea
and China was to try to get them to continue holding the dollar as
454
the base currency, and they basically says: Forget it. They’re not people are willing to pay. Most people are only buying stocks
gonna do that. because they think it’s gonna turn around and go up. Well, what
if the industries have all gone to foreign countries? -- which they
So when you’re asking me the next question, that is, what’s have.
gonna happen is that the market’s gonna keep drifting lower.
People that have money in equities, most of them are tied up now The whole stock market is a can of worms and I’m telling
in their so-called mutual funds, their 401Ks or their retirement everybody to get out of the stock market yesterday. I’ve been
accounts, which have gone down, again, like I say, from 50 to telling ’em that for a couple years.
70%.
Now, the other thing is, short-term wise, obviously the US
I mean, I talked to a lady in Phoenix yesterday who’s been Treasury’s okay. The only problem we have now, we have
putting money in their 401K for the last 30 years and it’s now several new provisions that the government’s put out under the
worth 30 cents on the dollar what it was a year ago. Patriot Act, as you’re probably aware, and that’s the transfers of
money between anybody and any parties and anything else. The
KC: Are you saying that those accounts are gonna go down Patriot Act is making it so that they’re basically monitoring all
again? transfers of money between parties of over $2,500.
GG: Yes, even more. KC: Really? $2,500?
KC: Oh wow. GG: That’s right. They’re monitoring everything. Remember, we

had a $10,000 deal?
GG: Let me bring you up to date a little bit, because this is...
we’re all talking about time and we’re talking right now, you and KC: Right.
I, on February 24th and you want some dates.
GG: Well, don’t believe it. The banks are doing all kinds of
On March 4th, there’s scheduled to be a speech of the Treasury strange things to keep people up, the illusion that they’re really
Secretary. This is considered a watershed date. There’s gonna be good. In fact, we had Wells Fargo Bank was open on President’s
a kind of a bounce after he gets done speaking. In other words, Day. Remember when all the banks were closed?
whatever he says, the American people... Whatever they’re gonna
do, the manipulation on the market, he’s gonna be talking and KC: Yeah.
saying everything is stable but he really has nothing left to bring
to the party out here ’cause there’s nothing here besides debt. GG: It was open so people could come in and say: Look how
good we are. Remember, they just merged with Wachovia.
Mid-March, that’s what we’re talking about now. March 4th is
when they’re gonna be speaking. That’s the Treasury Secretary. KC: Right.
Mid-March, if it lasts that long, will start the beginning of what
we call serious unwinding.
GG: But this is all being held by the stimulus money. They’re
getting all this money but nobody is borrowing anything because
There’s only three scenarios that can happen under this thing, they can’t qualify under the new terms. Now, I’m a former
which I’ve been predicting. banker, as you know.
The first one: That they can keep juggling the numbers out there. KC: Right.
It’s like people discuss what’s going on with stocks -- like U.S.
Steel was $190 a year ago, and now it’s $20 a share.
GG: So I’m looking at the bank thinking: Would I loan any
money to anybody right now? No, because their jobs are all in
KC: [laughs] jeopardy. How many people are being laid off?
GG: This is all in a year. Well, anyway, the first option is that they’re gonna keep
manipulating the game for a very short period of time. The
KC: Yes. foreign governments, including China and Japan, they’re gonna
start dumping the dollar.
GG: Okay, so what I’m saying, because people don’t understand
the stock market is nothing more than a gambling casino. Once If it does that, Option Two is what we’re talking about. They’re
the stock is issued, it’s traded between brokers, offline, online, going to keep going, they’ll keep juggling this thing up until
everything else, and the prices that they put out there are just economic events that are totally unpredictable. In other words,
arbitrary. we don’t know when they’re gonna pull the plug on the
derivative market.
It doesn’t mean that there’s a fixed value. Nor does it mean, like,
if you do U.S. Steel, for instance, if $20 is one share that’s what
you’re going to get. What’s it really worth? It’s only worth what
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Well, the foreign people are saying: Wait a minute. I’ve got all American Eagles, the government suspended making them for
this money invested in credit cards. And the credit cards are now about two weeks as they went to the 2009 edition. They’re back
upside down. Right? online now, but the orders are so heavy because people know
that’s your storage of wealth.
KC: Right.
I’m not gonna tell you what you can do with it later, because I
GG: We just talked about the commercial real estate market, expect gold to jump to $2,500 or maybe even higher as some of
which is a huge number. But we also got the credit card market, the people are saying because it’s the only storage of wealth that
which is all the people put their money on credit cards, and that we have.
has been bundled and sold again, to make money on these things,
to foreign countries. And this is all coming to rest, if you want to Real estate’s collapsing all around the country. The tax situations
look at it. are going to go up. That’s the only way they can continue the
game, or taking money from people. And there’s no more jobs
The Third Option, which is basically what I’ve been predicting out here. Nobody’s buying anything.
also: The guys have to start a war. And I’d been saying that
they’ll probably get the war started by the end of the second KC: Right. Well, what about this tax situation? My accountant,
quarter of this year. he said they’re auditing like crazy right now -- sole
proprietorships. And that’s really strange. Those people don’t
Now I’m giving you some dates. And the reason is to get make any real money.
everybody diverted away from it and they can then also hide all
the money. GG: Well, here’s what the problem is: There’s a lot of people
that have told you to watch the television and say: Let’s go on the
KC: Well, what about the idea that other countries were buying internet and we’re going to start selling everything on eBay. E-
actually the Treasury bills of the United States government, Bay. All of the Mastercard, Visa, the suppliers, now, are gonna
which is us paying the interest on our debt? And that suddenly provide 1099s to all the little individuals.
they’re no longer doing that?
So, in other words you sold on eBay, there’s going to be a 1099.
GG: Oh, no. They’re not... That’s going to “generate cash flow” going back here so they can
find another way to tax it.
KC: So now the Federal Reserve is buying it. Does that make
any sense? Meanwhile, the municipalities where they are, are now gonna go
back in and ask for licensing. You understand? And that’s
another form of taxes.
GG: No, the Feds themselves are buying it. They’re basically
monetizing it, but there’s no interest on it. So all we’re doing then
is causing the dollar... KC: Okay. Right. Business licenses? That sort of thing?
We have two things. We can either go into hyper-inflation or GG: That’s right. Business licensing, they’re gonna do that.
deflation. Deflation is happening because all the stores right now They’re gonna go into the same thing and they’re gonna be
have big notes that are due. They were due in January. looking at the whole thing of the money. My prediction is that
they’re getting ready at this minute. Remember, I told you I have
a copy of the World Cash Card?
And these notes... because they borrowed money in order to
merge, i.e., like K-Mart and Sears merged together. Where’d they
get the money? They got it off of the derivative market, which KC: Yes.
allowed ’em to have this money.
GG: They’re gonna just stop everything, and you’re gonna go
But all these things are coming up to the plate and say: Hey, we down to the Post Office and register. They already have the rules
want to get paid for the interest. So, all the stores across the in place. And that’s to get everybody to fall in line setting up. At
country right now are having huge sales -- 60, 70% off. the same time they do this, they gotta get the war going. That’s
the reason why I’m saying, we’re just weeks, if not days, away
from this total meltdown that’s gonna happen, Kerry.
KC: Okay.
KC: Well, what about the Baltic Dry Index that’s gone down,
GG: Now, that gives them the cash to pay the interest to ’em. like, 93%? We understand that there might be a lag-time between
The only problem is that we’re not having anything to replace the the fact that it went down, I don’t know, in January, or whatever
goods, and these people are deeply in debt, and that’s where part it was?
of the commercial market is going to have what I call the upside
down, or further collapse of our country.
GG: Sure.
I’m suggesting everybody make sure you get your food stored up
if you can right now. I was urging people to get in gold and KC: And that there’ll be a lag-time between that indicator and
silver, but delivery right now is two to three months out right then the actual fact that nothing appears in the store because no
now. ships are delivering any goods.
456
GG: Yeah. Here’s the problem – and, again, I’ve been talking to The other thing they don’t tell you is where are the bullets made?
my bankers. We have all kinds of ships with goods right now. All the bullets in the United States are made in other countries for
These are offshore. They have not landed. There’s huge ships full all these guns.
of oil, for instance.
KC: Right. Okay.
Now, they all ship on Letters of Credit. In other words, the
people have shipped the goods and say: Okay, it’s shipped. I want GG: The only exception is the police, under their special
to get paid for it. Banks issue them Letter of Credits so when they weapons they have. You know, in each of the main cities they
deliver it... Well, they can’t even deliver it now because of have some special weapons, these special bullets that are made
Homeland Security; or the bank that issued the Letter of Credit here in the United State. But most of them are made in other
has gone under. countries.
Now, none of this is good, but I’m just telling you what the facts So when this comes down, sure you may temporarily have some,
are coming down. And they’ve been well planned. They’ve been but they’re prepared for all of this mobilization under the FEMA
doing it for, like, 60 years or 70 years. rules and under the acts that they have set up in motion, I bet, at
this minute.
We have a new book coming out. [It] gets old information that
shows how they’ve been planning this; giving dates, times, and We’re just coming very close to the total meltdown of the system
everything. And all our so-called elected officials are all a part of as we know it, and how can people get prepared? Like I say, you
the conspiracy. can’t get any gold or silver anymore -- it’s pretty tough. You
know, if there’s a coin show or something out there, try to get it.
AIG went into bankruptcy. Right? How come it got immediately But the option market is so manipulated right now, when they tell
taken care of? This insurance? You know why? All the pensions you to buy all this stuff there isn’t anything behind it.
from all of the congressmen are there. They’re gonna cover
themselves. KC: We’ve got an article here that is talking about a “summer of
rage” over the recession in the UK. Have you heard about that?
The American people are just, as we used to say, expendable
containers. They don’t care if you march on Washington. They’re GG: Yeah. Well, it’s happening, not only in the UK, but it’s
just the rabble in the streets. other countries too.
KC: Right. KC: They’re sort of, like, this idea that this might be, you know,
the summer from hell where... You’ve got the unemployment rate
GG: But we’re gonna start to the next phase with, and I’m right now in California, I hear, is over 9%.
predicting within the next year. You’re asking time again, within
the next two months because of this slow-down I just told you in GG: Kerry, remember what I told you before - Figures don’t lie,
March and everything. but liars figure?
You’re gonna start having a lot more rioting and more... KC: Okay? [laughs] All right.
everything going in the streets. That’s to bring it in so we can
have civil control. And they’re putting in Executive Orders right
now claiming that people over age 60 can’t even bear arms GG: Just remember that. When you come down to the true
because they’re too sick and they won’t be able to aim correctly unemployment, you check with the State of California, it’s the
or do something. people that are drawin’ unemployment benefits. After you’ve
used up the benefits, you’re considered employed. How many
people who are not getting any benefits at all, that are
KC: We were just listening to Lindsey Williams and he’s talking unemployed?
about the fact that gun sales went up incredibly right after the
election, and that people in America are basically... I mean, you
know Americans. When push comes to shove, [laughs] they’re KC: That’s true. A lot of people have turned away from the
gonna get their guns and defend their territory and all this whole unemployment scene because they’re trying to, you know,
craziness. Right? make money on their own small businesses, that sort of thing.
GG: Well, they’re gonna try to do that. What they don’t tell you, GG: Well, everybody has to be very creative at this minute and
that immediately then has registered everybody that has a gun? that’s what we’re looking at. How do we get back and
They’re gonna come... understanding barter? How do we, you know, live off the grid, so
to speak?
And again, Obama has this Executive Order. You’ll have it out in
a few days. They’ll tell you about it. What they’re gonna start I think the little book that we have, Patriots, he has gone into
doing is saying: Can you have the gun? And then the basis of it, great detail. This is a captain in the Army that come out and he
if you do defend yourself, will you be charged with murder? set up a little book that told everybody how to survive on all
these things and get ready for it.
457
But you’ve got to get away from major cities. I mean, you know GG: I think exactly what you’re saying. We’re gonna go into
they’re going to be chaotic because people don’t... You’ve got worse depressions, even worse than ’29. Seriously. I’ve been
enough gas to go, you know, maybe 100 miles. Well, how are telling other people, if you need a new toaster or everything, go
you gonna get out of town when the highways are shut down? over and guy ’em quick because you’re not going to get any spare
parts. Nothing’s gonna be sent in.
KC: Do you agree with this idea that what is being intended on
the agenda of the elite, basically the Illuminati, is to bankrupt the I mean, you can kind of get an indication of that when you go to
Arab nations right now by making the price of gas so low? Wal-Mart which is the largest company in the world, basically,
selling goods and they transport all the goods. Look at their sales
GG: Well, that’s... it’s a combination. It wants to bring these and look what’s coming down. Look at the bottom lines.
people under so they come back to the dollar being the best
currency. Remember, that was agreed a long time ago that the You know, it doesn’t affect most people. They don’t care less
dollar would be the one to be used to keep track of all of the oil about the bottom lines of other companies. All they want to do is
trades throughout the world. get their food and get what’s going on and most of it’s imported.
Well, we’ve got a lot of countries now that say: No. And so what All these other countries now are gonna set up trade barriers and
they’re trying to do is drive it down, whatever they sell at, everything because they’re trying to maintain the dollar. That’s
because people... all these countries now have been living on the what the Hillary meeting was all about.
high, you know, selling oil at over $100 a barrel. And frankly it
has to be up at $80 a barrel in order to cover the current expenses I say, things are gonna come up, and that’s a March 4th meeting,
for people, throughout the world. which is coming up next week when our Treasury Secretary is
gonna say... And I’m saying within two weeks after that you’re
And so what you are talking about is - where is the oil? There’s gonna see maybe an up and down in a little market which is
lots of tankers out there that are sitting out there full of oil right traded by a few people. And that’s just to keep your eye on the
now because we’re not consuming the oil like we did. ball, so to speak, to look at. Does it mean anything? Stocks have
absolutely nothing to do with business.
All these businesses are coming down. Even the printing
industry, when you look at, you know, the newspaper. How many KC: You’re saying two weeks after March 4th is gonna be a real
ads are out there? All these things you’re talking about are all serious downturn in everything.
interconnected.
GG: In everything.
KC: Right. We heard there was a lot of clothing stores, for
example, going under, well-known clothing stores. KC: But are you saying that’s when they’re gonna try to declare
war or have some false flag incident?
GG: Everything is going under. Every business... I told you that I
expect Sears and K-Mart to go bankrupt. Sears is trying to sell its GG: Well, I’m saying... Yes. Well, I’m saying the second
tool division because it’s well known to somebody else to take it. quarter, but the second quarter is actually, you know, you look at
The automobile industry is being maintained by what? the second quarter begins in April. So, anything can happen in
Washington loaning more money again to the automobile the next few weeks.
[industry]. Nobody’s buying automobiles now either.
We’re looking just days away. Will it last next weekend? I’ve
KC: Incredible. I mean, so there’s a centralization of ownership. always predicted if we had some three-day weekend, then that’d
They’re basically going to own everything. be a good time for them to implement all their “effects”.
GG: That’s what it is. And yet, one out of three people work for the government. Do
you think they’re gonna stop working for the government?
KC: That’s socialization so... Because that’s where they get their pay. They’re gonna turn in
everybody. They’re gonna turn in their neighbors because they
GG: It’s basically the One World Order is a socialist dictatorship want to make sure they get their check.
controlled by a very few people, coming back to the 13 families
out of Switzerland. KC: I also heard that the state governments are, first of all, trying
to secede even from the Union at this point. They’re not wanting
KC: Now, do you agree with the idea that there is going to be a to go along with the whole situation. The other thing is that
lag between, like, if you say October was the bell-ringer sort of they’re going bankrupt in various states, so they’re not able to
drop in everything, and then from there on there’s sort of a slide. pay their state employees.
Like when the big depression happened in 1929, then there was
sort of a three-year lag during which people still more or less had GG: That’s right. So what’s the next...
money ’til about 1933 when everything went down to nothing.
So, do you think we have a lag? And I understand that we’re on KC: So what happens when they don’t pay their state
an escalated timeline, so it’s not going to be like it was then, but employees? Those people have to... They’re virtually
what do you think we’ve got here? unemployed, isn’t it?
458
GG: Virtually they go to unemployment benefits which are not GG: But the other problem that’s involved in it is the weather is
there. Virtually then all your services get shut down, and then changing entirely around the planet, every place. Even where we
virtually you get people walking in the streets aimlessly. You can are. I mean, it used to be a banana belt. I’m looking out and
just see the picture. They don’t know what to do because there’s there’s five foot of snow out here.
nothing out here for them to do.
KC: Incredible.
KC: And do you see a pandemic as kind of the next thing they
roll out after this economic downturn thing? GG: We don’t have but six to eight inches of snow in the whole
month of January and I’ve got five feet of it sitting on my
GG: Well, the economic down thing is gonna have people window.
running around on the streets. And so the plan, the Plan 2000 that
Jimmy Carter put in writing, and again, I put a summery on my KC: [laughs] That’s amazing. Right. Okay.
website as you know, nohoax.com, and that calls for a war to get
started in the Middle East.
GG: Well, it’s crazy. I should be back on the plane down with
you guys and being warm but...
So the information I’m getting is that they’re getting everything
set up to go after Iran, who is basically funded by Russia and
working with them, and the Chinese. So the war that we begin KC: [laughs]
then, the scenario, World War III, which is part of their
population reduction program. GG: Then I just came back from Ecuador, as you know, and it
was raining all the time -- and it’s supposed to be the dry season.
KC: Well, I know you have to go, George, and I do appreciate
all your time here. So basically, I guess the writing’s on the wall KC: Oh, wow. Okay.
at this point.
GG: So now everything’s happening. And then I talked to my
GG: Oh, the writing’s on the wall. friends in Costa Rica yesterday and the same thing is going on.
Places in Panama -- Boquete was a good American tourist... got
KC: It’s not like before when we used to talk and things weren’t wiped out. A mudslide went right through town. And so you can
really reflected in reality. I guess people are now gonna listen to look and see the whole town’s basically gone.
this and they’re gonna say: Yep, it’s happening.
KC: Right.
GG: Well, I get calls all the time from all around the world
because what I said on the radio three years ago and what I’ve GG: This is all in the last few weeks.
been saying right now is all coming to pass. And now all of a
sudden people want to go do something about it. And, frankly, KC: Yeah. I hear you. There’s a lot of unpredictable things that
it’s too late. are going on...
KC: What about the... I was told that the Native Americans, the GG: Right, right.
tribes, are actually trying at this time to create their own currency
and sort of secede from the Union.
KC: ...on top of the agenda that they’re trying to role out --
which they’re aware of. Right?
GG: Well...
GG: Oh, of course. They’re aware of all this. They don’t know
KC: Do you think they’ll be allowed to do that? the exact thing on it. They just want to maintain control. Well,
we’ve got everybody controlled in the United States by the dollar
GG: Well, it doesn’t make any difference because there’s several and by getting food. And yet the food is, you know, genetically
places that are doing that. I’m working with our state senator up modified to even affect us.
here to create our own currency for the State of Idaho, using
silver as a backing. I’m also... KC: Yeah.
KC: Is that viable? I mean, can places... I know you said you’re GG: So it’s not a very good picture at this minute and it’s Bill’s
helping Panama or something do this. Is it viable that these... fault.
GG: Well, I’m working with the people in Panama. Oh, it’s KC: [laughs]
viable because then you can have something that you can trust.
But then everybody in the world’s going to run their money to
what? I mean, we’re famous for what? Potatoes up here. Right? BR: [laughs] I take full responsibility. [laughs]
KC: Right. [laughs] KC: [laughs]
459
GG: Well, no, well, he’s neutral. He’s from Switzerland. GG: Well, what I’m saying is... the same boat. You answered the
Remember, the Swiss don’t get involved. They just have the same question. Since you got people up there battling now to get
money. Right? control even in Switzerland, what’s the next step? Get everybody
diverted and get the war started.
KC: Yeah, well they just run the world from there. So, you
know. KC: Okay. Well, George, I want you to go because I know that
you’ve got this appointment and I don’t want you to miss it. And
GG: [laughs] Well, they’re trying to. Let’s put it that way. we’re really, really happy that you’re able to check in with us
from time to time and give us updates like this. It’s very valuable
for our listeners.
KC: Right.
GG: Well, I hope so. Let’s keep plugging away, and you guys
GG: The Swiss, my understanding is the Swiss now won’t take keep getting the word out. Get people awake, because that’s...
new American depositors as well as the Canadian banks won’t
take new American depositors or anything else because of the
Patriot Act. The first rule is to gain all knowledge. Take it from everybody
and then discern the information and search it out for yourself.
BR: Yes.
KC: Okay. All right. You take care then.
GG: They have to declare all of the... and they’re getting ready
for... The Swiss banks, there’s law suits going on. And I’m... GG: Thank you.
beyond me, I don’t have any idea how the Swiss authorities allow
a court in Florida to influence them. What jurisdiction do they BR: Thank you, George.
really have?
KC: Bye bye.
BR: Yes. The latest news though, George, is that the Swiss court
actually ruled to prevent UBS from releasing all the tax details of GG: Bye.
its private American clients. But I think this is not going to end
there. This is going to be quite a battle. It’s going to go on for
quite a long time and of course it’s going to affect an awful lot of
wealthy people.
460
Project Camelot:
2009: A Tale of Two Timelines
In January 2008 we wrote an important article which we called Now it's March 2009, over 12 months later, and some things have
2008 : The Future is Now. It was a major summary of the changed. Others, meanwhile, have not. But there is enough new
various threats and possibilities that we felt lay before us on information to revisit our summary and make some important
Planet Earth in these times, based on all the information we then comments about where we are at in this game... a game of two
had at our disposal. If you have not done so, we would urge you timelines.
to read this in its entirety.
2008 2009
1) Overview
Our friend and important insider contact Henry Deacon has Nothing has caused us to change our views on this...
stated repeatedly, since we first met him, that the issue is that
there are a number of simultaneously converging problems
which combine to create an unprecedented global situation. From
what we know, we agree.
Disagreement between researchers may sometimes only be

because both have a partial picture. Maybe everyone is right...
whatever they are particularly concerned about or focused on.
2) The so-called 'Controllers'
It's important to realize that the 'Controllers' - the Illuminati, the ...or on this.
Committee of the Majority, and/or various alien groups - are not
in control.
Deacon reports, credibly in our view, that not only is there no

overarching mastermind group successfully running the planet,
but that at agency, military and black project level there are
many factions, vying for control, with many different agendas
between them.
Some groups may be doing their best to help the situation, within
their particular context. Deacon includes the secret space
program in these, which he says is a kind of a lifeboat program
for Planet Earth if it really does hit the cosmic iceberg.
Dan Burisch has also spoken of and written about an 'Ark', which
was partially constructed on Earth and then transported to the
Moon in case it should be needed. He has described graphically
that at Area 51 there were interesting problems lifting and
moving this extremely heavy object.
Meanwhile, it's credible that other factions may have a very

destructive and manipulative agenda, such as to reduce the
planet's population by any practicable means - from the covert
l f h h d b h f
461
these possibilities below.
Other situations are naturally caused and are adding to the mix.
We also report on those. There may, of course, be other scenarios
which we are not aware of.
3) What the insiders are doing

And they still are. In October 2008 we met a very important new
witness, Jake Simpson. Jake, who is well-connected, well-
... is protecting themselves. There is in our view compelling and informed, and highly credible, told us that military plans to
credible evidence that for several decades there has been a large- safeguard the future of the human race are continuing.
scale, covert program to build a large number (possibly
thousands worldwide) of deep underground bases, in some cases
Jake told us that US military plans include the contingency of
entire self-sufficient cities.
using Australia as an 'Ark', and that certain materiel, facilities
and personnel are steadily being relocated there. He mentioned
These have cost trillions of dollars and this has not been done for Pine Gap, and half a dozen other sizeable but less well-known
the fun of it. This has been the largest construction program in bases in the huge expanse of the very empty and barely inhabited
the known history of the human race, and has been under way for Australian desert.
fifty years. It has been kept entirely secret, and is a response to a
serious threat of some kind. Below, we present some possibilities Jake also hinted extremely heavily that the long-rumored high-
for what that threat may be. speed undersea shuttle transport between North America and
Australia was a working reality, and had been for some time.
In our view it is ethically unconscionable that the public has not
yet been told what is certainly well understood at the highest The reason for the continuing defensive activity, Jake told us,
levels of the military and government. One of Project Camelot's was that it is not known with 100% certainty that the threat of a
purposes is to discover the nature of this threat and make it cataclysm - sometime in the next dozen or so years, and NOT
publicly known. necessarily 2012 - has been handled. Dan Burisch has told us
privately that he fully agrees with this and that it is only thought
that the danger is over. Total certainty about this is not
attainable. Please read below for more on this.
4) The Biggest Picture
What follows here is a simple summary of a complex and Nothing has occurred to change our view on this.
unbelievable array of events and factors. Please see The Big
Picture for some more on this, which is also a work in progress. Jake Simpson (see above) told us that he thought it quite possible
that the threat was known as early as the Second World War, and
In our view it is compelling that the American military learned of that the information learned from the Anunnaki in highly
a major threat to the survival of the species - possibly as long ago classified meetings in 1954 (Muroc/Edwards AFB) and 1955
as the late 1940s. Time-portal technology gained at least partially (Holloman AFB) precipitated Eisenhower's September 1955
from our visitors (whether they are space travelers, or time heart attack.
travelers as we believe), convinced the military that a major
future catastrophe was possible or probable.
In response, MJ-12 (or whichever appropriate executive

committee) decided three things:
• To embark on protective measures immediately.

• To keep the knowledge under the highest degree of
classification.
• To embark on an accelerated program of ET liaison
and high-tech research in attempts to increase their
control and avert the situation
At least one faction of this group is also interested in facilitating

the worst-case scenario out of self-interest and a desire for
domination. This agenda is very much involved in population
l/ li i i l d il d f l i
462
From Iron Mountain.
5) What was observed
One source, which we have not yet reported, has told us that on 5 We are still in touch with the witness who told us of what he
November, 1971, using a device called a chronovisor, the US observed using the chronovisor, though he is not yet ready to
Supreme Court Building in Washington, DC, was observed come forward in public with his entire astonishing story.
"under about a hundred feet of brackish water".
Jake Simpson (see above) stated to us very clearly that the well-
We do NOT know the date of the event which was observed estimated date of a potential cataclysmic event was later than
here, nor what the incident was determined to be that had caused 2012. He suggested that 2017 or 2018 might be closer, and that if
this event. nothing had occurred by 2020 or so, the danger could safely be
considered to be past.
Dan Burisch has referred to the threat of a pole shift round about
2012 and how this information was learned from time-traveling Importantly, Jake stressed that it was not known exactly when or
future humans. We consider his testimony credible and if the cataclysm would take place. As we reported in our
important. Henry Deacon has substantiated this, as have several Vilcabamba presentation, he told us of the recent launch by
others (including the source mentioned above). NASA of a trillion dollar satellite: and this is a man who knows
how much a trillion dollars is.
Similar leaks of classified information, warnings, dreams,
intuitions and channeled messages by the thousand - as well as The important part of this extraordinary piece of information is
the well-known mystery of the Mayan calendar - all combine to that the Powers That Be do not spend a trillion dollars on
give credence to the idea that in or around 2012 there will be (or collecting scientific information if they know what's going to
was due to be) a major global catastrophe of some kind - in all happen. They spend a trillion dollars if they do NOT know
probability a pole shift. what's going to happen... and if they want very badly to know,
because a great deal is at stake.
6) This has happened before
History is cyclical, and so are geology and the rise and fall of Jake Simpson (see above) told us that on at least one occasion
civilizations. The Great Flood is a myth recounted in nearly 100 construction teams excavating deep underground bases had
cultures across the globe. Plato, a reliable, highly intelligent and broken through into older underground facilities that were not
conscientious historian, reported the drowning of Atlantis in built by us. These facilities were constructed by our predecessors
graphic detail. (or ancestors) some 12,500 years ago... just before the Great
Flood. We considered this information of immense importance in
confirming the cyclical nature of these major events.
All over the world (and probably also on the Moon and Mars)
there are cyclopean ruins which tell the very clear story of a great
civilization which died. We may not be unique in the threat we Just as significant was Dan Burisch's confirmation of this - in a
face. private meeting last month, February 2009. we told him Jake's
story, and Dan confirmed that, yes, this had occurred in a
"Scandinavian country". A large tunnel boring machine had been
discovered which was "almost identical" to the one being used to
excavate that facility by present day humans - except that it had
been found in a different location, and was definitely not the
same machine... and had been left abandoned "for a very long
time."
The spooky nature of the connections between these cyclical

events - and the cyclical nature of reflex human response to them
- gives immense food for thought. Dr Bill Deagle in his
December 2006 Granada Forum Lecture also confirms this:
...Something is coming. Because we literally

have everything lined up precisely like before
the great war between Atlantis and Lemuria:
with the exact same population types, the exact
same technologies, and the exact same
geopolitics. Isn't that a coincidence? That we're
i th t iti th i f
463
equinoxes in the cycles. (Part 1, 1:05:45)

They broke through into one of these tunnels,
and it just turned out that the tunnel they broke
through into was already cored and built three
to five hundred thousand years ago - by
another civilization. God knows what kinds of
creatures - whether they were inhabitants of
Earth, or visitors. But our world is a very old
world... and the very idea that we're only 6,000
years old is asinine. (Part 3, 23:18)
7) The catastrophe has been averted
According to Dan Burisch, in testimony which we regard as A few months after publishing the original 2008 article, we
credible, the future humans' best evaluation of the catastrophe obtained permission from Dan Burisch to write a full report on
which befell their ancestors (i.e. us) was that it was caused by Timeline 1, Variant 83. Among other things, this told of a war
micro-wormholes in space-time which caused effects which were with Iran which was observed to start in October 2008, soon
inadvertently and devastatingly amplified by man-made stargates followed by Hillary Clinton's election as the new US President.
and time-portal 'Looking Glass' devices.
Neither of these critical-path events occurred.
Having been warned, the solution was therefore to decommission
these devices - wherever they were, and whoever had them. Dan Those who had followed our 'What's New' blog last year - new
reports that this has been done. visitors to our site, do read this!) will have seen that we had
collected a number of data points (14 in all, not all published on
According to information we have learned from Dan personally, our site) which combined to persuade us and many others that
and also reported on his blog, we are no longer on Timeline 2 (or there had been plans for major world-changing events to occur
'T2') - the name given to the catastrophic timeline. Detailed last October. One reliable insider we had reported in detail,
investigation was done into this last summer (2007) and Dan has Hawkeye, had referred to the coming events in these terms (23
reported that we are (or were, as of November 2007) on 'Variant August, 2008):
83 of Timeline 1'.
The October event(s) will be the coup d’état of
"We should be okay", he wrote to us simply, a few weeks ago. human life as we have known it in this century.
However, the recent assassination of Benazir Bhutto was quite Half Past Human had also warned their subscribers of massive
unforeseen. This serves as a reminder that all information about events due to transpire in the last few months of 2008. And Dr
possible and probable futures is far from static, and is continually Bill Deagle, in his now-famous phone call to us of 4 October,
subject to change. told us of a terrifying night he had spent witnessing in all but
physical presence what he perceived to be an imminent nuclear
attack on a major American city, possibly Los Angeles.
Through our own consciousness, we are constantly affecting the
world around us and as co-creators of the universe we are fully
involved in determining future events. In Part 3 of our recent Bill Deagle - along with George Green, Half Past Human, and
interview, Richard Hoagland states that he strongly believes we many others - also predicted the October financial crash. This,
may be able to organize ourselves to do so with maximum like a huge avalanche gaining momentum as it sweeps through
positive effect. We fully support this. global markets and institutions, still continues as we write this
article four and a half months later. But also as we write, while
acknowledging that the effects have been very serious for many
It's important to note that there are very likely to be rogue groups people and businesses in the US and elsewhere, so far the
actively working to influence timelines through the use of predicted cataclysmic events have not materialized.
techniques learned from certain alien races and the use of
advanced hyperdimensional physics. One deep black witness told
us in the last few days (verifying the data in our recently posted So what has happened here? Were all the prognosticators wrong?
book about the Antarctic 'New Berlin' base) that a group in
Antarctica may well be involved in doing just this - as reflected Were Bill Deagle's critics right when they accused him of being
by the mathematical formulae detailed at the end of that deluded? Had Half Past Human misinterpreted the vast amounts
document. of linguistic data at their disposal? Was Hawkeye misinformed
by his own insider sources?
When our contact Henry Deacon was phoned suddenly in

September to be offered a job in the Middle East at a rate of
$800 h hi h f h h h d d
464
before, and starting the very next day (which, to his immense
credit, he turned down) - was this merely a routine assignment?
We suggest not. We think that we are now on a different

major timeline: a different major variant of Timeline 1. And
in private conversation with Dan Burisch, he fully agrees.
Recent information from Dan Burisch indicates that he and

others who are operating as 'white hats' within the U.S.
government have also been working to prevent Timeline1v83
from coming to pass due to the sequence of events that were
foreseen in Looking Glass surrounding Pakistan and India, an
eventual nuclear confrontation, where China and the U.S. would
then become involved resulting in a nuclear exchange between
the U.S. and Russia... With the evident change in the President of
the U.S. and the death of Benazir Bhutto who Dan says was fully
aware of the risk and sacrifice necessary this timeline has also
been averted.
We are now and have been for several months, on a fully

unknown variant timeline, one, in theory, of our own making in
which we are in charge of whatever we decide to bring into
manifestation...
While this will always impossible to prove, we believe there is

massive evidence that round about October - possibly as a result
of massive focus of consciousness and positive intention, in
many forms, from thousands of people - a shift occurred. Our
best answer to the critics of Bill Deagle's 4 October phone call is
that the apocalyptic event he "saw" probably has probably
already happened - but on a different timeline.
That means that thankfully, it did not happen to us. Who it did
happen to - other versions of us, for lack of any better description
- we will leave to the metaphysicians. So we are now in
uncharted territory. "All bets are off", Dan had written to us last
October. When we relayed this to Jake Simpson soon after, he
agreed entirely.
8) Military thinking : don't give up the

insurance policy
All bets are off, Jake had agreed: see immediately above. We
were disturbed to learn from Jake that the military defensive
What is important to realize is that just because computer preparations were continuing unabated. It was as if they were
analyses of information gained from time-portal devices have still planning for - or insuring against - the Timeline 2
shown that the coast seems to be clear, standard military thinking catastrophe. But Jake was phlegmatic about this. The date of the
will still be to prepare for the worst for another five years. After event, he said - if there was to be one - was nearer 2017-18 than
all, they've been at this for two generations; what's another few 2012. There was still plenty of time to gather information and
years, just in case. resources... which is just what he told us military scientists were
doing.
Hence the underground bases will continue to be stocked, and
the secret space program will continue. Mars is being Dan Burisch also agreed with this. A group of P52 Orions, he
terraformed as we speak, so we understand - a harmonic echo of told us, had chosen to 'remain behind', orbiting the Earth in large
what happened on Timeline 2 which our descendents report, craft in case their assistance was needed. In so doing, Dan told
when one group, eventually to become the 'P52 Orions', fled the us, because the timeline seemed to have changed to the non-
planet via the Moon and Mars to eventually colonize other star catastrophic Timeline 1, they had in effect made one of the
systems and continue the human race elsewhere. greatest sacrifices on our behalf: to remain here to help us, their
own distant ancestors, and therefore cutting off all possibility of
their ever returning home.
465
For the very latest news on this, see our 14 March 'What's New'
entry. Marci McDowell reported on the Eagles Disobey Forum
(reply #27) that Dan Burisch thought he might have successfully
decoded, from writing left to him by his future-lineage ET
contact, Chi'el'ah, the very date when the Timeline 2 catastrophe
occurred.
Dan did not publish this date, but suffered quite a shock mentally
and emotionally - from the potential responsibility of actually
knowing, exactly and for the first time, this future-historical date.
Dutifully, he had reported it to Majestic, and stated that he would
make a public statement on 28 March. Little more than this is
publicly known at present, though there are some more details on
the Eagles Disobey Forum on the pages following the
announcement.
One key piece of information has recently surfaced in this regard

indicating that Dan is currently working with the Orion cube or
Yellow book as it is known by some... to determine what the
significance is of the date which we seem to have just passed and
where we are now in regard to the probability of various future
scenarios.
From information we have been given by Dan and Marci, we do

understand that the events surrounding the Marriott hotel in
Pakistan, where a large explosion occurred outside the hotel as
well as a fire within the 4th and 5th floors -- was linked to steel
boxes that had been placed in rooms on those floors and were
under American military guard, apparently something within
them was triggered to combust... And this all leads back to what
Dan has said are reverse engineered duplicate "cubes" currently
being loaned out (for a price) to various governments with a
yes/no switch installed for the asking of one question only, under
strict protocols, that if tampered with or interfered with in any
way would self-destruct as a safety measure.
These cubes enable the user to see the future probability as a

hologram.. But in order to handle the cube, the user must be fully
trained in order to shield themselves and the cube from overlay
or interference of their own presence and preconceived ideas...
first by having only one person in close proximity to the cube
when operating it, and secondly by being a contactee, who has
been experienced in various techniques as a result of their
contact experiences...
The use of these cubes is significant and does not pose the same
threat as Looking Glass, according to Dan, as they do not access
portals or wormholes but rather access the field of consciousness
in order to obtain information and show probable outcomes.
On March 28th, Dan Burisch will emerge from seclusion and we

hope, reveal at least something of what he has seen in the cube
regarding where we are on the current timeline and what we
might need to be aware of as high probability events currently in
the making... However, it is important to note that under the
confines of the Committee of the Majority that he is working
with, there is likely to be a great deal that he will not be at
liberty to reveal.
466
Marci conveyed the following:
Drs. McDowell and Burisch will be addressing

echelon members of the New Group, retired
echelon members, and senior and middle level
operatives of the former Consistory of the
Majestic; and other Eagles Team members on
Saturday, March 28, 2009 at Noon Universal
Time concerning the decoded 6 locations
where the defunct presumed T2 date was
written or referred to, in Dr. Burisch's
continuous diary.
They go on to state, that a transcript will be made public. It is

notable that Dan and Marci have stated on their site and
numerous times that anything that threatens humanity in close
proximity will be revealed by them regardless of the
consequences as their first loyalty is to the people and survival of
all.
9) No free lunch
However, Timeline 1 will still have its problems. The rest of this As stated above, the 'October Surprise' failed to materialize,
report will detail these, as best as we currently know or leaving us with the strong apparent possibility that we are on a
understand them. These can be subdivided and examined as new variant of Timeline 1, with unknown events in store.
follows: Whether or not those unknown events are good news - or not the
kind of thing we want to experience - remains to be seen.
• Rising sea levels and disturbed weather patterns.
• EMP spikes from increased solar activity (Solar Cycle 24). The rest of this article examines the possibilities, sticking with
• Geopolitical instability and risk of conflict. the categorization in the 2008 article and opposite.
• Economic instability and possible collapse of markets.
• Global pandemic.
• Political and societal problems in the US and elsewhere.
• 'Planet X'.
• False-flag 'alien invasion'.
10) Rising sea levels and disturbed weather

patterns
There has been extensive, heated debate among good,
independent climatologists about what is happening to the
The Greenland ice cap is melting at an accelerating rate, in world's weather - and, closely connected with this, what the sun
defiance of carefully calculated models. Some climatologists, is actually doing (or not doing) at the moment.
duly alarmed, now estimate that sea levels could rise as much as
nine feet in the coming few years.
Though not extensively reported by the mainstream media, the
weather this last winter (2008-9) has been extreme in both North
While infinitesimal on the global tape measure, nine feet is still America and Europe. Temperatures have been low and
enough to devastate seaboards and force hundreds of millions to precipitation (rain and snow) has been heavy. This was not what
relocate, creating unprecedented refugee crises and all the many had expected.
associated problems of food and water shortages, threats of
disease, and local conflict - let alone the major economic effects
on industrial production and infrastructure worldwide. Some One person who did expect this was Dr Bill Deagle. Referencing
entire nations, such as the Maldives, will simply cease to exist. his 2006 Granada Forum lecture again:
We have been actively encouraging friends of ours in Florida to Loss of the Escalator Effect: there's been a 30-
consider relocating. Other areas, of course, are similarly 35% decrease in the Gulf Stream bringing
vulnerable. The factors to consider here are that even if you are warm waters from the Gulf of Mexico to North
not personally affected by the sea and live miles (or hundreds of Europe. We're not heading toward global
miles) inland, the country or area you are living in may warming. We're heading toward an ice age. An
experience a knock-on effect in terms of the economy, ice age is not caused by cooling. It's caused by
i f f d l i i f l b f increased rainfall Has anyone noticed that the
467
people to wherever you are that will may change your life rainfall in some areas has really gone up a lot
considerably. and other areas are desertifying? That rainfall
in the Northern Hemisphere can cause snows
This needs close monitoring as more public-sector research is that can pack up to 100 feet of snow per year....
done (as it is being done now, with great urgency). If this sea and these ice ages, by the way, come in very
level rise does not occur, then of course all the above factors will quickly: as little as 3-5 years. It doesn't mean
not apply. the end of civilization. But it does mean a lot of
places will be not very habitable. (Part 1,
1:06:18)
But: weather patterns will continue to become more unstable as
global warming also accelerates - caused by solar activity, NOT
carbon emissions. A warmer climate means warmer oceans - also Robert Felix, on his controversial weather reporting site Ice Age
heated up by increased undersea volcanic activity (see solar Now, argues similarly.
cycle 24 below).
Most interestingly, and not previously reported by us, our
Warmer oceans mean more hurricanes, typhoons and cyclones unpublished source (see [5] above) who informed us in detail of
(all the same thing) - and also more rainfall. Some climatologists his first-hand experience with the chronovisor, told us that he
argue that increased rainfall means increased snowfall in "had understood from his CIA handlers that there would be an
northern latitudes and therefore the paradoxical possibility of a ice age".
local ice age in certain locations, such as the northern parts of
Europe, Russia and Canada.
Again, none of this is a civilization showstopper; but the same

principles apply, inasmuch as there is likely to be mass migration
of people forced to or wishing to relocate, and effects on food
production and infrastructure. And this will definitely occur, as
weather becomes more unstable and extreme worldwide.
11) EMP spikes from increased solar activity

(solar cycle 24)
We have little more information on this subject.
Solar Cycle 24 officially began on 4 January, 2008 - heading
gradually and unstoppably towards its predicted maximum in... The debate on whether or not solar activity is set to increase
2012. The significance here is that there is compelling evidence dramatically still rages among public-sector solar scientists. This
in the public domain that Solar Cycle 24 will become severe in very interesting 23 March 2009 New Scientist article states the
its effects on the planet. potential threat very clearly as viewed by some mainstream
scientists..
Everything we do here on Planet Earth is dependent on or linked
to the sun. If the sun starts misbehaving, then none of us can
escape the effects. Project Camelot was contacted in mid-2007
by a world-class scientist whose name would be recognized by
many readers, contracted to the US government and operating
under a Top Secret clearance. He was able to tell us that one of
the problems facing us in the next few years ("starting in 2009")
would be a CME (Corona Mass Ejection), and he compared this
to the major solar event of 1859.
In 1859 there were spectacular auroras at all latitudes, but the

world was not then dependent on electronics. Today such an
event would bring down communications, disable satellites,
ground aircraft, and (if sufficiently severe) fry all chips and
circuits not adequately shielded. This would seem to be a major
and real threat.
The danger here is not to people, but to the infrastructure.

Commentators enjoy pointing out the obvious (as we must do
here) - that such an event might catapult us all back to the mid-
1800s, with the difference being that most of us would have no
idea how to cope without electronics, vehicles, or even running
A i i' i f bl l i
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no pumps, which means no gas or water, which means no food

unless it was locally grown, which means that many of us would
be in big trouble.
The good news is that if a major CME was on its way, we would
all get 6-48 hours warning - like a kind of solar tsunami. That's
enough time to shield one's own electronics: wrap in aluminum
foil and cloth, and/or bury them in the ground or take them deep
into the basement.
Note, however, that in the event of a severe EMP all vehicle

engines would be disabled unless they were old diesel cars or
trucks with no engine management system. Henry Deacon has
also advised us, repeatedly, to acquire and learn how to use ham
radio - which in a worst case scenario might be the only way of
communicating besides shouting out of one's window.
Many visitors to our site will realize that this fits perfectly with
the testimony of our witness Dan Sherman, who was trained as a
military telepath as part of Project Preserve Destiny - in
preparation, as he was explicitly told, "for a future time in which
all electromagnetic communications would be rendered useless".
We do NOT know whether this has been foreseen using time

portal technology, nor do we know how our scientist source
mentioned above knew of the claimed coming CME problem. He
did not answer our immediate question about this, and simply
apologized for not being able to say more.
He said we were "in for a very bad time". "I don't normally
communicate with the public like I use to," he wrote. "I found
that most people just can not handle the brutal truth very well."
This person also stated, clearly, that there would be a 2012 pole
shift. But he may not have known that it had been averted (see 7
above). Or maybe it has not been! It's not possible to know
exactly what the "bad time" was he was referring to... although
one may guess.
Our best evaluation of this is that it does seem to be a definite

risk that a sufficiently large solar 'spike' (what Ed Dames has
overdramatically called The Kill Shot) would heavily disrupt
infrastructure, transport and therefore food distribution. As so
many have said, a degree of emergency self-sufficiency would
seem smart.
As a final note, it must be said that some scientists are

connecting solar activity with tectonic and geothermal activity -
that is to say, volcanoes, earthquakes and (consequently)
tsunamis. If these causalities are valid, the earth changes that so
many have predicted may be ushered in by nothing more than
our friendly, or not-so-friendly, sun.
12) Geopolitical instability and risk of conflict
Here, man's enemy may be man. There is ample evidence that Our contact and source George Green is still very concerned that
there is a clear agenda for there to be a planned (long-planned) The Powers That Be are intent on starting World War Three. He
US military strike against Iran, justified in a number of ways that discussed this at some length in his recent Vilcabamba
d b h ll b hi i l i i l i presentation
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and the last months of George Bush's term in office - like the presentation.
danger presented by a cornered tiger - may be the most
dangerous. Others - including ourselves - feel that the scenarios (see below)
are now most likely to be economic, with the ensuing
It's hard to evaluate this. There is some evidence that a strike was deliberately engineered justification for heavy control of
planned against Iran last summer (2007), but may have been populations and infrastructure if the economy of the First World
averted by a small group of unknown and very brave airmen at really does crumble into a second Great Depression - as many
Barksdale AFB. Synchronous with this, several unidentified but informed commentators are warning.
major stock market players bet $4.5 billion that the markets
would fall drastically before 21 September 2007. This did not Alex Jones' recent documentary The Obama Deception addresses
happen, and they lost their gamble. There was no strike, no war. this at length. As this article naturally ages, events may well
Maybe we have been spared, as many believe. become crystal clear one way or another. But for those reading
this soon after publication (end March 2009), we highly
It's important to realize that there are many games being played recommend it for its well-researched information value and the
out behind the scenes. We're obliged to be vague about what we critically important warnings which it may contain.
can say here, but we do know that not everyone in Washington
or the Pentagon wants a nuclear war. Much has been written about Obama, with the alternative media
leaning heavily towards criticism and (to be polite!) serious
The NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) that was published on doubt. Our position remains exactly as stated here (Second
2 December 2007, stating that Iran was not a threat, was one Archive, 5 November 2008 entry):
major attempt to literally spike Bush's guns and remove any
justification for an attack. We cannot reveal details, but we do Barack Obama is the new President-elect of the USA. We will
know this as a fact. now all have to see if he is his own man. But with advisors such
as Zbigniew Brzezinski, George Bush Senior, and Bill Clinton -
Shortly afterwards, Benazir Bhutto was assassinated. There's and having been groomed for the job for two years by a different
extremely strong reason to believe that she was 'removed' faction of the NWO - we feel it is far from clear what the future
because one of her major purposes was to ensure that no major may hold. We hope to be surprised, and wrong.
conflict broke out between Pakistan and India.
We also revealed in our own Vilcabamba presentation that it had
The only conclusion that can be drawn here is that all situations been reported to us by a reliable source that when he had met
in the Middle to Far East remain unstable and dangerous. It has Obama in the early 1980s it seemed very clear - even when he
to be understood that there are factions - see (2) above - which was so young, then only in his twenties - that he knew that he
may want there to be a nuclear exchange. was going to be President.
The reasons for this insanity (the only word that can be used) are We noted this with great interest, and report it here for anecdotal
unclear. It might be because this has been 'seen' (using time- value. If Obama did actually know this, there must at least be an
portal technology) and therefore must be fulfilled; it might be honest attempt to square this with our thesis that timelines have
Biblical ('the Armageddon thing'). It might be an attempt to recently changed after Hillary was slated to be the President
reduce population. On the other hand, situations can be readily according to the information gained about Timeline 1, Variant
imagined in which Martial Law could be implemented in the US 83. In the meantime, we were also told by a contactee, who had
(and maybe other countries) as a response to a world which is met the Pleiadians when aged 12 (then in 1974), that the US
suddenly a nuclear one again. President in 2012 would be... Obama. Our contact wrote the
name down, as it meant nothing to him, and told us last year...
before Obama had even won the Democratic nomination.
Meanwhile, Henry Deacon had even told us in October - and we

have never published this - that he had read years earlier in a
briefing that "something unusual would happen at the last
minute" - and he could not remember what this was! - that would
result in Hillary Clinton becoming President at the eleventh hour
even although it had seemed that she would not be in that
position.
So what is happening here? Can all these reports be

simultaneously correct? We suspect so. The intricate and mind-
bending nature of the interaction between parallel alternative
timelines must lead to the strong possibility that (just as we
discussed pertaining to Bill Deagle's vision of 4 October 2008)
all these events are possible, in some sense "real", and therefore
all visible either psychically or using various forms of advanced
470
in harness with the enhanced abilities of a conscious observer.
13) Economic instability and possible collapse

of markets
Well, we were right about that: see opposite. And this scenario
(see [12] above) continues to preoccupy us and many others.
Any of the above situations could precipitate economic
instability or collapse. But with the US economy having a GDP
of 14 trillion, and debts of 120 trillion, it is bankrupt already. The Many have referred to the slow, but accelerating, slide of the
marked stock market slide of 22 January was the beginning (in world's financial markets as a kind of controlled demolition of
our view) of a period of instability and global lack of confidence the global economy. First the charges blow: then the building
that will lead to the inevitable collapse of the dollar - and still seems to stand intact... but its fate is sealed. Like the 9/11
thereafter, the pound and the euro. WTC towers, the downward collapsing momentum then builds
until there is nothing left except shock and trauma that may last
for years.
The sharp collapse will happen as soon as a major US
corporation or bank announces that it has been obliged to fold.
From what we understand, this is only a matter of time - weeks The advantages of such a ploy are obvious: as markets collapse,
or months. businesses and institutions fail, and infrastructure (such as the
food and energy supply chain) reaches failure point, increased
governmental control of citizens - and maybe military control of
We talked with ex-banker and paradigm changer George Green mobs on the streets - becomes justified. As David Icke describes:
about this. He predicted the stock market slide in mid-January problem-reaction-solution. And just maybe (see [12] above) this
(which has impressed us) and said that besides investigating also provides a beautiful excuse for yet another diversionary war,
buying land in South America (as many insiders are doing, he to provide distracting concern for the TV-watchers previously
told us), he is liquidating all assets and holding small worried only about their personal assets.
denominations of cash (nothing higher than $20 bills) and is
buying silver coins.
Meanwhile, George Green (see opposite) was right to some
extent about silver, which peaked at $21/oz on 17 March 2008,
George told us that silver ($16.50 an ounce at the time of seven weeks after publishing our 2008 article. Then, with all the
writing) is the metal to buy - because it’s underpriced relative to wisdom of hindsight, would have been the right time to sell. The
gold and there’s a real world shortage, and it’s used and needed prices of gold and silver are now climbing again, though gold is
industrially in many ways. He stated that silver will soar to $40 pulling ahead. All the advice we offered about owning and
and possibly even $100. We are paying close attention. holding physical silver or gold - if one is in a position to do so -
still stands.
Gold and silver coins that one possesses oneself are the best
'currency'. Owning gold or silver bars in a bank vault (or worse, Many readers will be familiar with the testimony of Lindsey
owning paper substitutes for a theoretical, non-physical Williams, whom we have not yet interviewed. In brief, Lindsey
purchase) is of no use at all if the bank is closed and one does not reported in July 2008, when oil was then at more than
have a key. $140/barrel, that he had been informed - by a very senior insider
source - that the price would be engineered to fall to less than
$50/barrel by the November election. At the time this seemed
almost impossible to believe... but that was exactly what
happened.
The plan, Lindsey stated he had been told, was to bankrupt the
Middle Eastern oil producing nations, who would be faced with a
catastrophic decline in revenue. They would then be forced to
dump their dollar reserves.. which would in turn have a
devastating knock-on result on the American and then the global
economy. This final phase, says Lindsey, is in progress, is
unstoppable, but has not yet occurred.
Lindsey specifically states that one important recent interview

(done not with us, but with The Byte Show) is not copyrighted,
and we consider this update from Lindsey to be the most detailed
and informative interview he has yet done. For anyone following
George Green's and Bill Deagle's economic warnings, and who
would appreciate more detailed information, we recommend
Lindsey Williams' update as essential listening.
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14) Global pandemic
Avian flu is not a hoax. Avian ('Bird') flu is a genuine threat, and Like the Iranian war (and Hillary Clinton's presidency), this has
could easily be one reason for Martial Law. International flights not occurred. However, many well-informed observers (such as
could be stopped and a real pandemic can be used as an Dr Rima Laibow and General Bert Stubblebine from the Natural
excuse/reason to stop anyone from traveling domestically also. Solutions Foundation) feel that the threat is still real, and remain
alert.
The infrastructure would also be decimated because few if
anyone would risk going to work and many millions might die - Our contact Jake Simpson agrees, and told us in October 2008
far worse than in 1918. In 1918 the flu - which was also Avian that viral outbreak - which could occur (or be reported to occur)
flu, which not many realize - was 5-10% lethal. In 2008 it’s 60% very suddenly - could be easily used as a justification for closing
lethal. national borders and controlling (or stopping) international
travel.
Dr Bill Deagle states in his December 2006 Granada Forum
lecture that he is certain that the Controllers have engineered
H5N1 (its medical name) from the 1918 strain with a deliberate
intention of killing between 1 and 2 billion people. Henry
Deacon has stated to us that he sat in meetings where the release
of pathogens was planned in order to reduce population.
On the other hand, Dan Burisch, in response to this, has

explicitly stated:
I am now (learned within the last few months) aware of such

actions having been contemplated, now in the past, by
representatives of the Illuminati. Such ideas were never brought
to fruition, not because of their love for humanity, but as they
judged it counterproductive for themselves. They were also
threatened that should they attempt anything of such nature, they
would be "acted upon" in a manner they would not find
acceptable.
Quiet factions, including what is now the group in charge in the

wake of the adjournment by the Majestic, during the
consideration period by the Illuminati, were preparing to
counter the actions by the Illuminati with the use of biologists,
Federal Law Enforcement, and where necessary - outright force.
24/7/365 vigilance is ongoing. That is all I can publicly say
about these issues. I am "extending myself" to this extent...but
you have the right to know.
Regardless of whether H5N1 has been bioengineered, it is out

there. Avian flu is in 90 countries at the time of writing (January
2008) and the only reason it’s not spreading is that people are
dying too quickly - like Ebola fever. All it would take is two
gene mutations (and there’s a huge viral mass) for it to go human
to human, and after that all that is needed is a few resistant
carriers - in other words, people traveling. If that all occurs, all
this becomes a major part of what strategy to adopt.
The possible reasons for Martial Law need to be considered. A

second 'false flag' 9/11 is one thing. A pandemic is quite another.
The Controllers may be much more liable this time to go for
something invisible to secure their objectives than another 9/11.
Viruses can’t be analyzed on video replays... and they’re also
real. Avian flu is not a trick.
The currently calculated chances of Avian flu becoming

pandemic in any one year are 30% - a figure from the Centers for
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being a global epidemic), North America might be isolated by

the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, while Europe might be far more
dangerous (being more densely populated and also directly
connected to the Far East, where the two critical extra mutations
are most likely to occur).
But in this scenario, expect draconian measures domestically in

the US (and maybe other countries) to control or firewall against
the viral threat. This may be one of the reasons why South
America is now being considered a safe haven by so many
insiders - for whom none of the above is any news at all.
15) Political and societal problems in the US

and elsewhere
See [12] above for a discussion of this - most possibly at this
stage linked with critical global economic problems, should the
Followers of Alex Jones and Jeff Rense will have been aware for situation continue to deteriorate.
quite some time that there is strong reason to believe that there
may be serious crackdowns on US civil liberties in the relatively
near future.
This could not happen without an excuse (or a reason convincing

enough for the population to capitulate), so speculation has been
rife about what gambit to expect from the Controllers. Bill
Deagle has stated that he has information that there are suitcase
nukes pre-planted in 22 American cities, primed for another
'false flag' event (like 9/11, but more major, shocking and
dramatic). This may or may not be accurate, but it reveals the
possible thinking of the Controllers.
Project Camelot has a source, not so far published by us, who

was involved in the Montauk experiments of the early 1980s.
This person for several years has been talking about what he has
called "The King George scenario", in which George Bush
would remain in office due to a (falsified and engineered but
convincing) National Emergency. We were approached about
this in May 2007.
Astonishingly, our source insists that this was being planned in

the 1980s - before one would imagine George W. Bush was ever
thought of. Moreover, he has dated these events as being
synchronous with food shortages and food riots in the US.
We did not publish this material in 2007, since no food riots

seemed to be forthcoming and we were obliged to question the
accuracy of the information. Researcher and food supply
specialist Steve Shenk, however, has recently reported that food
shortages, connected with drought and the collapse of bee
colonies, are likely. This might be yet another reason, if any
more were needed, not to get trapped at the wrong time in a
major city.
The other reasons for civil unrest and/or Martial Law (a chicken-
egg situation, of course) have already been detailed above:
nuclear attack (the unthinkable option, whether staged or 'real'),
or quarantine restrictions in the midst of a genuine pandemic.
Finally, we should say that in the recent Timeline 1 time-portal

analysis, as per (7) above, we were told that George Bush does
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473
We would like to say that you heard it here first... but you
probably did not.
16) 'Planet X'
Last but not least! We have to say that we do not yet know what Marshall Masters, with whom we are in good contact, continues
to make of this. We do believe that there is likely to be a massive to report on this topic on his very comprehensive website,
object (of some kind, whether a rocky planet, a brown dwarf yowusa.com.
'second sun', or even a small black hole) on an eccentric orbit (of
some kind) which is being monitored closely by IRAS and the During the summer of 2008, we did some unpublished research
South Pole Telescope. But what that means, we do not ourselves into the claims of Steve Woods - a supposed Planet X
know, and no insider has yet credibly told us. whistleblower - and concluded that he was a hoaxer. On the
other hand, towards the end of the year we heard privately from a
We're aware that many intelligent people have done good contact who had a close relative who was a senior Jesuit, and
research into this and have concluded that there's likely to be a who had been told by this relative that the Planet X issues were
major problem on its way - a little like rolling a giant bowling very real.
ball through the solar system, something which happens every
few thousand (some say 3,600) years. This object does seem to Dr Bill Deagle, in his 2006 Granada Forum lecture, also refers to
exist - and may itself be doing its part, through electromagnetic the disruptive approach of a "hyperdense object" as a reality -
and other forms of resonance, in exciting the sun to new levels of and, most important to understand, as a separate, independent
activity (see 11 above). problem from the cyclical movement of the solar system into
alignment with the galactic plane. And Bob Dean, whom we
But whether this is the harbinger of destruction (or the harbinger know and love greatly, told us, memorably, in his September
of the Anunnaki, as some claim) is another question which we're 2008 interview, that he had learned from his own sources that
not yet equipped to answer. Our Norwegian politician source, 'Nibiru' was due to return round about 2017.
who reports personal experience of scenario planning for
evacuating 40% of Norway's population underground in 2012, This confusion - integrating the information reported by Bill
mentioned that "Planet X is coming"; but had no details, let alone Deagle, Bob Dean, Jake Simpson, Dan Burisch, Luca
scientific ones, and in fact he had no hard information of any Scantamburlo (who reported to us in detail on February 2008 on
kind about the reason for the very real and massive precautions Cristoforo Barbato's 'Planet X' research), Marshall Masters and
that he insisted were well under way. many others - can be aligned by Henry Deacon's comments,
reported at the very start of the original 2008 article:
'Planet X' was simply what he had heard. We are convinced of
the existence of the underground bases, but not of their purported Our friend and important insider contact Henry
raison d'etre in this instance. Far more likely, we think, that the Deacon has stated repeatedly, since we first
forewarned 2012 pole shift was the justification for all the heavy met him, that the issue is that there are a
and secret activity. number of simultaneously converging problems
which combine to create an unprecedented
It's even possible that 'Planet X' may be disinformation. Not the global situation.
existence of what Bill Deagle calls a "hypergravitational object",
but its likely effects. Its reality might be the factual part of the Separately, many people have written to us guessing at the
disinformation, and the destructive effects the false part - thereby identity of our Norwegian politician source. Some have been
playing neatly into legend. It's extremely hard for us to say. correct. We promised him we would not reveal his name on our
site, but the cat is already out of the bag in Norway and quite a
Our stance, as always, is to keep an open mind and to gather lot of people already know the details.
more information from every source. And one thing 2008 will
bring is more information. Of all the probabilities and After a little searching you may quickly learn more. But be
possibilities discussed on this page, the greatest odds of all are warned: this is a hornet's nest, and too much digging and poking
that that we will learn a very great deal more in the coming could leave one with quite a headache. Our own position is that
months. the original messages from our source were authentic and
reliable. After we traveled to Oslo to meet him last February and
he did not show (though we were able to verify his identity and
all contact details), the matter became much more clouded. We
will refrain from any further comment.
17) False-flag 'alien invasion'

We've learned nothing more about this... save for the following.
In a recorded conversation between Henry Deacon, Michael
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474
the internet, some calling this Project Blue Beam. There is much St.Clair and ourselves, in July 2008, the following dialog took
to be read about it, almost all of which is speculation with little place, transcribed here...
firm evidence or whistleblower testimony (one noted exception
Henry: And then you’ve got the possibility of a
being that of Dr Carol Rosin, speaking on behalf of her old
fake - a very strong possibility, very soon - of a
colleague and mentor, Dr Wernher von Braun).
fake invasion from outer space menaces that...
Like Kerry, I don’t know what you saw. But that
Project Camelot has no information about this and cannot may have been an example of one of the
comment at this stage. It has not been mentioned by any of our machines that was built right here.
own witnesses.
Kerry: Oh yeah. It had the feeling of that, I have
to admit, although it was extremely high...
Henry: Yeah. So with thousands of those being
flown over cities and highly populated areas,
and then using the vast media, you can do an
awful lot of psychological damage and control -
psyops - to a lot of people.
Kerry: Right. But ultimately, what do you think
the result of that’s going to be?
Henry: Then being able to control people, to
maybe put them into... ah...
Kerry: Camps?
Henry: Yes, exactly.
...and here:
Bill: When you talked about the faked alien
invasion. Do we really have that many of our
own craft? And you felt very strongly that that
would happen. I’ve never heard you say that
before.
Henry: Oh yes. To answer the last, the second
question, is: we have more than you... I don’t
know how many that we have, but we have
more than you could... You’d be very surprised.
Everyone would be very surprised.
18) Summary
There have been a number of initiatives, all over the internet,
proposing and organizing various gatherings. group meditations,
At the very top of the page, we remarked: and other collective activities intended to prevent unfavorable
events and usher in more beneficial outcomes for us all.
Our job, all working together, is to help the human race find
its way through the minefield of potential booby traps to We can only applaud these. We encourage ALL activity that has
emerge at a better future. To walk this minefield blindly is in as a genuine intention the betterment of conditions for mankind.
our view unwise. Better to have at least a partial map. This is As we have often publicly stated, Project Camelot is just part of
our intention here. an enormous worldwide team effort to move Planet Earth away
from potential bad times ahead.
The above summary analysis (and it really is just a summary)
marks out where some of the landmines may be. The largest of But some of these initiatives are founded on false premises. It's
these, the 2012 pole shift, may well have been handled. This is most important to state that the issues are confusing: and to surf
the good news. But there are plenty of other ways to accidentally the internet, without discrimination or differentiation, to try to
end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's why a map figure out what's going on, is to invite being swamped with
of the minefield is not a bad idea. misinformation whether deliberately or accidentally engendered.
Simply put, there's a lot of nonsense out there. It must be

Our intention is not to convince or persuade, but to inform in remembered that a sizeable part of the commonly accepted
such a way as to enhance each reader's ability to make basket of New Age beliefs is just another religion, and serves to
responsible decisions for themselves and their families. control people in exactly the same way as every other other
belief system has always done. Dr Fred Bell, for example, with
This has been our position from the start: to report what we feel whom we've talked off-record, reports that:
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475
Whatever we do, we're committed to the truth, but without any Spy satellite programs, such as Misty, launched
dogma or doctrine apart from the fact that the truth stands on its in 1990 by NASA's STS-36, began putting in
own, for better or for worse. It is the way it is, as the Buddhist place beam technologies that often target New
master patiently explained. Age channelers and meditators, fooling them
into thinking they are in touch with their higher
Our best advice: self, or an alien entity. These technologies,
says Dr. Bell, are further steps towards world
population control.
• Look within, and educate yourselves and those around you.
• Be patient with skeptics or those who are afraid (often the same thing). One of Project Camelot's purposes is to pre-screen insider
• Follow no leaders. information such that the chances of falsehood are at least
• Stay open and flexible in every way. minimized. From the feedback we receive every day, the
• Create and be the change you want to see. overwhelming proportion of visitors to our site seem to feel that
• Remember that we co-create the future every moment of every day. we're succeeding in this challenging task.
Some of these situations may transpire, while others may not. As we've stated clearly many times, of course not all of our
Time will sort out which is which. Our own commitment is to witnesses agree fully. If they did - like the police accident
learn as much as we can, and then to share it. That's what investigators who find ten eye-witnesses with identical stories -
Camelot is all about. we would be pretty suspicious.
So there are differences. Many of these differences can be

Bill Ryan
attributed to what Richard Hoagland famously refers to as "the
Kerry Lynn Cassidy
lie is different at every level": i.e. that misinformation is
28 January 2008
deliberately planted - and believed - among insiders, as well as
among the curious public. This of course makes evaluation
frustrating and difficult... just as it is intended to.
So we rely equally on our intuition, feeling often very strongly

that we have been steered into positive directions for our
research where doors have almost magically opened before us.
We get messages from time to time repeating old internet claims
that Dan Burisch is untrustworthy, for example, and we no
longer respond to them.
We know this man. He is among the most decent, brilliant,

humble and good-hearted people it's ever been our privilege to
meet. His accounts are supported by Henry Deacon and Jake
Simpson, and it's abundantly clear to us that there are deep and
critically important truths in his tale of the two timelines.
Separately, on our site we have given a platform to Pane Andov

['Astralwalker'] to present his ideas. We do not agree with all of
them, and feel that some of them are seriously flawed. For
example, the '2012 event', as those who have read this far will
see, may not be dated 2012 at all, and may not be connected with
the Mayan calendar. 11.11 am on the morning of 21 December
2012 is almost certain to be spurious. Which time zone is never
specified, and remember: the Mayans had no clocks, and nothing
was ever mentioned by the Mayans about either a cataclysm or
the the world coming to an end... let alone the New Age beliefs
about 'Ascension' (whatever that is) or moving into the 'Fourth
Density' (whatever that means).
The Controllers of this planet, with their hands full of real issues
connected with actual, imminent, potential hyperdimensional
effects and problems, are no doubt delighted that we keep
ourselves harmlessly busy with such vague and happy nonsense.
More examples are that the 1977 message from 'Vrillon' of the
'Ashtar Command' is almost certainly Earthly in origin (very
possibly a Tavistock experiment which, if so, must have filled
the perpetrators with great glee); and while Dr Paul LaViolette's
'Superwave' idea is a serious hypothesis from a brilliant man, this
476
our way!" states Astralwalker) was not claimed by LaViolette to

be connected with the movement of the solar system into
alignment with the galactic plane, or with whatever 'Planet X'
might be. In fact, in his important book Earth Under Fire
LaViolette rejected the notion that periodic pole shifts had
occurred throughout history. So, for now, the jury must stay out.
In summary, caveat lector: reader, beware. However, a shift of

consciousness IS occurring. It seems to be part of the natural
cycle of cosmic-scale events described above by Deagle and
many other serious researchers. The challenge is that in our
accelerated excitement, we don't combine to destroy planet Earth
and the human race in the process.
And gatherings of all kinds ARE valuable, and we support them

fully. Many individuals of great ability are also very quietly
working to change conditions on the planet and elsewhere. Some
of them are using spiritual methods of various kinds: and others,
practically focused, are the good men and women in the military
and intelligence services of many First World countries: heroes
and heroines working behind the scenes, whose names we will
never know, to counter plans which are genuinely evil. Jake
Simpson informed us in the clearest possible way that these
'white hats' were real, active, and working hard with quite a job
on their hands.
Many times we are asked: "What should I do?" And our answer,
always, is: "Whatever you can". This is a huge team effort.
Everyone counts. Most of the people in this game are well-
intentioned. It's a learning process for all of us. Very few people
want to see the loss of our liberty, our civilization, or (God
forbid) our world. We at Project Camelot will continue to do
what we can to bring knowledge to the people, and encourage all
others to do the same.
Bill Ryan
Project Camelot
21 March 2009
477
Project Camelot:
“Elizabeth Nelson”
What Really Happened To Flight 93
Audio Transcript
Los Angeles, February 2009
We're aware of the sensitivity and emotional import of this

subject to millions of patriotic Americans, including many in the
military, and we respect that fully.
For obvious reasons, Elizabeth Nelson is not this woman's real

name, but the account you are about to hear is totally authentic.
As you listen to her testimony, consider the complexities of the
events of that day, and the many good people who were caught
up in them, seeking only to do the best for their country, quite
unaware of what the real truth might be behind the scenes.
*****
--- I remember the distinct feeling inside of me when I saw on the news that
there was this story that there were terrorists on this plane, and that the people Elizabeth Nelson (EN): And we stood there, me and him and two
overtook the pilot and crashed the plane, and how this was leaking out as these other soldiers, and we looked at the TV, and we could see the
people being heroes. And I remember the extreme moral frustration inside of
me, of feeling: But that’s not true! That’s not true at all...
smoke coming out of the building. And at that moment I saw the
next plane coming, crash into the other tower. Now both towers
Elizabeth Nelson were hit. And we all were just absolutely silent, you know. We
knew what this meant.
In February 2009 I [Bill Ryan] was approached by a remarkable
and very brave young lady who was present in the room when the • ...I do not know the names and ranks of the people in
decision was made to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 over the room. I do know that it was, at the time, the head
Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on the morning of 9/11: 11th Commander of the Hospital and, I believe, the
September, 2001. In this 45 minute audio interview, this very Commander of the Base.
courageous woman tells her story in detail.
• ...a plane that was flying in a no-fly zone near to Camp
The audio begins with a sequence of critical extracts which we David and heading toward Site R. I had no idea what
have portrayed dramatically to illustrate the significance of the Site R was. And to me Camp David was a place where
story. We're aware of the sensitivity and emotional import of this George Bush went on vacation. I didn’t know any more
subject to millions of patriotic Americans, including many in the than that.
military, and we respect that fully. For obvious reasons, Elizabeth
Nelson is not this woman's real name, but the account you will • ...Protocol is that this is a no-fly zone. We have to take
hear is totally authentic. As you listen to her testimony, consider this plane down. Yes, it’s a passenger plane. It needs to
the complexities of the events of that day, and the many good be taken down.
people who were caught up in them, seeking only to do the best
for their country, quite unaware of what the real truth might be • ...And so I was in this room when the decision was
behind the scenes. mutually made by the people talking on the phone in
the room that I was in, to shoot this plane down.
Audio interview, February 2009
• ...Site R is an underground city, under a mountain in
Pennsylvania.
This is Bill Ryan from Project Camelot. The date today, as I
record this introduction, is the 6th of April 2009. • ...We have just a little bit of time to decide before it’s
too late. You could feel the intensity in this room. I
Earlier this year, I was approached by a remarkable and very mean... and these men weren’t heartless men.
brave young lady who was present in the room when the decision
was made to shoot down UA flight 93 over Shanksville, • ...I remember the distinct feeling inside of me when I
Pennsylvania on the morning of 11th of September, 2001. saw on the news that there was this story that there
were terrorists on this plane, and that the people
In the next 40 minutes, this very courageous woman tells her overtook the pilot and crashed the plane, and how this
story. It begins with a sequence of critical extracts which we have was leaking out as these people being heroes. And I
portrayed dramatically to illustrate the significance of the story.
478
remember the extreme moral frustration inside of me, EN: Normal day. And we had the early morning patients --
of feeling: preparing enemas, and upper-GIs. They’d drink the barium, and
we’d look at their intestines.
But that’s not true! That’s not true at all...
And then after these were done in the morning, one of the
Start of Interview soldiers, who a more senior solider, a specialist, I believe, he was
out in the lobby and he came out into the back room where we
were all were and he said: Holy shit! I just saw a plane crash into
Bill Ryan (BR): I want to thank you for coming forward to talk one of the Twin Towers.
to us about a very interesting experience that you had on
September 11, 2001, when you were in the military, in a And the three of us were like: Really? That’s really strange. And
particular location, in a position to witness some events which a so we walked out to the front desk.
lot of people might be very interested in.
BR: He’d seen it on some television.
And having given that teaser of an introduction, I invite you to
say whatever it is that you would like to say about yourself, what EN: He saw it on the hospital TV, right at the lobby...
your position was at that time, what you were doing, where you
were, and how come you got to be there. BR: OK.
Elizabeth Nelson (EN): OK. I was in the last six months of my EN: ...where you come in and check in for your x-rays. And we
active duty, in training in the U.S. Army, still of the rank of a stood there, me and him and two other soldiers and we looked at
Private, I believe, Private First Class. I was stationed at Fort the TV and you could see the smoke coming out of the building.
Meade under the Kimbrough Ambulatory Care Center Hospital. And at that moment I saw the next plane coming, crash into the
other tower. Now both towers were hit. And we all were just
Fort Meade also has on it the base of NSA, which is the National absolutely silent, you know. We knew what this meant. This was
Security Agency. And it’s a fully operational hospital that houses intentional.
soldiers as trainees to continue and finish up their medical
training. BR: OK. But what you’re saying here is that he saw the first
plane hit, captured on a live television camera somehow.
My training was as a radiologic technologist, which is an X-ray
tech. And I had done, prior to that, a year and a half basic EN: Yes.
training, ENT school, and the in-class aspect of my training at
different bases. BR: Which has never been acknowledged in the public domain.
BR: But despite the specialty, essentially you were a solider. EN: Yes.
Right?
BR: So he saw the first plane crash and then he came in to tell
EN: Absolutely. I went through 13 weeks of intense basic that to you.
training. I prepared myself beforehand and I was running
between nine and eleven miles daily before I went into the EN: Mm hm. The department... it was just a big hallway. And he
military, six days a week, to prepare myself. My whole idea... just saw this, and he walked back, and there was maybe six or
And doing yoga and meditation. seven of us standing there. And he said: Holy shit! There’s a
plane just crashed into the tower.
My idea was that: They will not break me physically. They will
have nothing to say to me physically and they won’t touch me. BR: Yes.
And in the company of 160 soldiers, I was one of the top three
females in the whole company. And I never had a problem. EN: And a few of us were like: What? Really? And we went to
see for ourselves and we were standing there watching this
And so, after I finished that leg of my training and I went to Fort building on fire.
Meade, I arrived there and had already planned to go home.
Three weeks into my time there I was allowed to have a leave, BR: One building on fire.
which was very rare. You don’t get very much of that time.
EN: Yes. And as we stood there, we saw the second plane come.
And then September 11th happened. I was so angry that they
didn’t allow me to go home! On that day I remember we were all BR: Yes.
in the morning, and in the morning we had to report to the
hospital just like any hospital, for preparing for the day. EN: And then all of us, I think there was like four of us standing
there at the moment - me, him, two or three other people... two
BR: It was a routine day. other people. It’s hard to remember. Yes. And we stood there and
said: Holy shit! That wasn’t an accident. Something’s happening.
EN: A routine day.
And just as, you know... I mean, I also have gone over this in my
BR: The start of that day. head many times and thought: Well, maybe he... maybe a video
camera... Maybe he didn’t see the plane actually crash in. Maybe
479
the video camera was focusing in on the tower burning. Or

whatever. But I don’t know. It just... he said he saw it crashing in. EN: What I’m talking about.
BR: Yes. BR: ... whatever it was that you’re talking about. So it seems to
be a real event. OK. Talk us through what happened. What
EN: So... happened then with you and your movements that day?
BR: Well, this is also... EN: So after this, the - I believe it was the First Sergeant of the
hospital and the Commander. A First Sergeant is in the Sergeant
EN: And I didn’t doubt this, because I was so enclosed on the rankings, and a Commander is in the Officer rankings. And they
base and the life on the base that... You don’t see TV from the sort of...
outside. You know.
The First Sergeant of our department gathered us all together,
BR: But you don’t know what channel this was. told us that the soldiers that were stationed there, they needed to
report to the command center, basically.
EN: No.
And so, all the other departments of soldiers - the nursing
BR: This was some internal military hospital channel. department, the clerical, administrational department - everybody
sent their base soldiers there and I didn’t see them anymore. So
EN: Yes. And they do have regular channels like CNN or NBC basically the hospital was not fully active at that point.
or something. But as far as I know, we’re not allowed to change Everything was on hold.
it. We had no control over this. The TV was set. So...
BR: Mm hm.
BR: And do you remember, was there any commentary, like any
newscaster saying: Oh my God! or...? EN: And those soldiers, my friends later told me that they were
on 24-hour duty shifts of manning the gates and patrolling the
EN: No. surrounding of the area of the base.
BR: It was just a picture? BR: Mm hm.
EN: Just, yes, just a picture, and I don’t... There wasn’t any EN: For me and the one other student that was there, our First
news. There wasn’t anybody running, as far as I remember. Sergeant -- she was a really nice woman, she was very sweet --
she offered us up to the Commander of the Hospital, and I
And we didn’t stay long at the TV because it happened almost believe the Commander of the Base, to be of service to them
immediately that over the loud speaker following this... I would because we didn’t have the right to bear arms while we’re in
say within, you know, ten minutes, somebody came over the training, or something like this, some logistical thing, and so she
loudspeaker - maybe even less than ten minutes - for soldiers to gave us to them.
report and to get their weapons.
BR: Because it was something useful you could do?
BR: Get their weapons?
EN: That we could be useful, because nobody was in the
EN: Yes. department anymore, so we needed to: OK, get rid of these two
soldiers. You can take them.
BR: Because?
BR: OK.
EN: To protect the base.
EN: And so I remember the room that they took us into. And
BR: As a standard procedure to an apparent attack on the base? they told us that we were in charge of, you know, getting coffees,
any kind of snacks from the cafeteria - not cafeteria, like from the
EN: Standard procedure. On-going. But not me. Not me, because snack machines or from the place where you can get little snacks
I was in training. - in charge of making photocopies because she and I had the
access codes for the rooms, to get in there.
BR: OK. And of course George Bush himself, in an apparent slip
of the tongue to the press, said that he had seen it and had said BR: Because these guys were having a meeting.
something like, that he thought to himself: My God, that’s some
terrible pilot. EN: Exactly.
EN: Mm hm. BR: It was a major meeting precipitated by the fact that this
event had just happened.
BR: And then he said that when he saw the second plane crash,
he realized that there was an attack. That’s what he said. EN: Yes.
EN: Mm hm. BR: And that’s all you knew at that point.
BR: So he could have seen...
480
EN: That’s all that I knew. And it was made very clear to us that
we were not to look at them. We were... they sat us in chairs at EN: I didn’t know any more than that.
the far end of the room, not facing them and we were told to look
at the wall and not listen to anything we heard. This was our BR: And this was information that was coming in on this
direct orders. telephone from elsewhere.
And so, she and I sat there staring at the wall, sometimes, you EN: Yes. Yes. And they were discussing this, of... Protocol is
know, nudging each other or, you know, [makes whispering that this is a no-fly zone. We have to take this plane down. Yes,
sounds] or talking a little bit or something, but really being very it’s a passenger plane. It needs to be taken down. It’s a no-fly
soldierly about this. zone. And so...
And there was probably six or seven men around this very large BR: Was there talk of hijackers and an attack?
table, just like you would see in a big office somewhere. And
they had this funny phone. It was like a conference-call phone. EN: No.
And I remember them sitting there and they were talking through
this phone. And it seemed to me that they were talking to one or BR: Was that part of the conversation?
two other places.
EN: No. I don’t... I didn’t hear a thing about hijackers. We just
BR: Any idea who or where? heard that this plane was flying in a no-fly zone and they couldn’t
make contact with the plane, or something like this. There was no
EN: You know, my feeling now was that they were communication. Protocol says it has to be taken out.
communicating with someone from West Point, something that
had to do with West Point, which is a military base as well, based BR: Mm hm.
on the Hudson River in New York, about an hour north of New
York City. EN: And so I was in this room when the decision was mutually
made by the people talking on the phone in the room that I was
BR: Mm hm. in, to shoot this plane down.
EN: And so I... That was my feeling, some reason because of BR: Mm hm. And so... OK, let me feed this back to you. What
location. And I really think that I heard this somewhere because it you’re saying then is that you heard in real time, and you were
stuck in my head over these years that... Something with West there in the room where the order was given... was first of all
Point. discussed, agreed, and then given by a decision-maker. Was that
somebody in the room? Or was that one of the guys...? Who was
BR: Mm hm. Did you know the names and ranks of the people it that said why they were going to do this?
in the room?
EN: I think it was in agreement, that these two to three groups
EN: I do not know the names and ranks of the people in the that were talking agreed this needs to be done: OK. Everybody in
room. I do know that it was, at the time, the head Commander of this room, do you agree? Yes. OK. You guys agree. OK, we go for
the hospital, and I believe the Commander of the base. this, then.
BR: These are two different men you’re talking about. I think it wasn’t... No, actually there... I do remember one man,
the lead man in the room, leading the show and everybody else
EN: Yes. There’s the guy who oversees the hospital, and then followed.
there’s the guy that oversees the base.
BR: Mm hm.
BR: OK.
EN: But he wasn’t just saying: OK, we shoot it down out of the
EN: I don’t know their ranks but they were... In my opinion, they sky without these other people on the phone agreeing.
were the top-ranked in the room. And then there were other
Officers and other... maybe a few First Sergeants in the room as They had said this was what they... standard protocol, can’t make
well. contact or something. And then it was like: OK. Then we must do
this. We have to do this. And then everybody in the room agreed
BR: And the conversation around the table was like: OK, guys, with the one person, you know, doing the communications.
what’s going on here?
It wasn’t the whole time just one person communicating. A
EN: OK, guys, what’s going on here. I felt stress, and some couple of them would talk in and out, but this guy seemed to be
unknowingness, and some fear, but they hold it so well, really. the “chef” of the room.
They hold themselves together.
BR: He was driving it, is what you are saying.
And then the topic turned to a plane that was flying in a no-fly
zone near to Camp David and heading towards Site R. I had no EN: Yes. It didn’t feel like anybody knew that there was
idea what Site R was. And to me Camp David was a place where anything with terrorists.
George Bush went on vacation.
BR: Mm hm.
481
BR: Mm hm. I mean, there was no talk of terrorists on this plane.

There was an unknown situation, a plane that couldn’t be EN: Yes.
communicated with.
BR: Yes.
EN: Unknown situation. Mm hm.
EN: This is the housing-place of the representatives and the
BR: Was there any reference to the attack on the Twin Towers congressmen and all of the... It’s not for the people. It’s for the
that you’d seen on the television? They must have talked about government so they can hide. [laughs]
this.
BR: Mm hm.
EN: Yes. Well, they had seen this and this was part of the reason
why they didn’t know what the destination was for this. EN: Backup Pentagon, or Site RT. The latter refers to the vast
array of communication towers and equipment atop the
BR: OK. Now, was this the first time you’d heard a reference to mountain. It’s known as the Underground Pentagon.
Site R?
This is fascinating. [laughs] Its largest tenant is not the Defensive
EN: Yes. Threat Reduction Agency. The largest tenants are the Alternate
National Military Command Center or Joint Staff Support
BR: What is Site R? Center.
EN: From what I learned afterwards, because we had a medical Ah ... 114th Signal Battalion… Emergency Operations Center.
unit deployed for two weeks out to Site R, and one of the x-ray That’s what we had sent the medical team out to, was the
techs was a very good friend of mine. Site R is an underground Emergency Operations Center…. Fabulous -
city under a mountain in Pennsylvania, completely isolated and
fully secure, with similar things like Area 51 where they can tell BR: So there it is. It’s obviously a classified facility but its
if a mouse is moving in a huge radius around this mountain. existence is in the public domain.
BR: Mm hm. EN: Mm hm.
EN: And you have to go through several gates, and check, after BR: It stands to reason that there would be a no-fly zone around
check, after check. And it’s heavily guarded, with a huge metal this thing.
door that opens into a city that’s just like a military base under
the ground. EN: Mm hm.
BR: And that was the first time you’d heard any mention of Site BR: And what really fascinates me about this story is that what
R? It wasn’t part of your training or anything like that at all? you’re saying is that you’re blowing the whistle, if I can use that
term, on the fact that Flight 93 - it WAS shot down, which will
EN: No. come as no surprise to anyone who’s been paying any attention to
this over the years.
BR: I looked it up, because you and I had talked about this
briefly before, when you gave me an overview of your EN: Mm hm.
experience. So I went and checked it out, and here it is. Take a
look. BR: But that the order to do that was given by people who had
no idea -- assuming it was true that 9/11 was an inside job. They
EN: Mm hm. Site R... believed that this was real. They didn’t know what was
happening. They were following strict, very well-defined,
BR: You know, you’re welcome to read that to the microphone. military protocol.
EN: [reading] The Raven Rock Mountain Complex, RRMC, is a If you’ve got a plane flying towards a secure military
United States government facility on Raven Rock, a mountain in establishment that won’t respond, it doesn’t matter who’s
the US state of Pennsylvania. It’s located about 14 kilometers onboard, the protocol says that you shoot it down.
east of Waynesboro, Pennsylvania and 10 kilometers north-east
of Camp David, Maryland. Because, in a war setting that morning after the tower in New
York -- seen from these guys’ points of view, who presumably
I’ve never seen this before. weren’t in the loop -- they have to assume that there could be an
atomic weapon onboard, there could be high explosives, there
BR: Mm hm. could be anything at all. And they have to do what the military do
best. Is that an accurate summary of what...?
EN: It is also called the Raven Rock Military Complex, or simply
Site R. Other designations, and nicknames include The Rock, EN: Absolutely.
National Military Command Center Reservation, and Alternate
National Military Command Center. Alternate Joint BR: Yes.
Communications Center… Backup Pentagon…
EN: I can merely say that if the people in the room knew about
BR: That’s exactly what you said, isn’t it? this, they are amazing actors and they should be in Hollywood
482
movies, because the feeling in there was really like: We have just BR: Mm hm. OK. So you were in that room for a very long time,
a little bit of time to decide before it’s too late. you just said.
You could feel the intensity in this room, you know? I mean... EN: Mm hm.
and these men weren’t heartless men. I didn’t feel them to be
heartless. BR: Did this meeting continue? Or did they...? I mean, what
happened at that time?
BR: Sure. They were doing their job.
EN: It continued. I had to go make copies of some things. I came
EN: They were doing their job. back with some sandwiches or something at some point for the
men. And then I sat and I waited.
BR: They were doing their job. OK. Is there anything else which
you observed or experienced in that room, or on that day, that’s My First Sergeant came and checked on me and the other student
worth reporting on record here? Were you in the room when the as well, just to see if we were OK. We said we were fine and then
plane was shot down? Did you hear any confirmation of this? Do she told us that after, when we were let go by them, we were free
you remember a reaction? to go back to our dormitories.
EN: I don’t remember a reaction, but I remember sitting in this And I remember going back to our dormitories. We all lived in
room for a long time. I remember sitting in this room. separate little rooms, and I remember just really being very
scared of what’s going to happen. And the woman that was a
And I remember the distinct feeling inside of me of when I saw friend of mine, she was a stationed soldier there, and she didn’t
on the news that there was this story that there were terrorists on come back that night because she had to be on guard.
this plane, and that the people overtook the pilot and crashed the
plane, - I mean, overtook the terrorists and crashed the plane Things were just really chaotic on the base. And there was a big
themselves. And how this was leaking out as these people being fear in the air about: Would Fort Meade be a target because of
heroes. the NSA? And I remember hearing that if they were, a plane were
to crash into NSA, the whole security of the world would be
And I remember the extreme moral frustration inside of me, of down -- whether or not that’s true.
feeling: But that’s not true! That’s not true at all! We shot this
down. And a huge conflict inside of me, of knowing that the If we would lose all communication with bases and security
world is made to believe this story that’s not true. across the world, I don’t know, but I remember hearing this and
thinking: Wow! That would be really scary, you know, if we lost
BR: Mm hm. all communication access and security values, worldly.
EN: And how people just buy this. And I felt that that was really BR: Mm hm.
wrong, you know. Why couldn’t they just say: Strict military
protocol. It’s a no-fly zone. Sorry. EN: So this was in the air. People were afraid: Are we going to
be attacked? And because there was things in New York,
BR: Yes. It’s interesting to debate, isn’t it? That, taking what something in Pennsylvania, and then something in Washington,
you experienced at face value, actually it’s the proper thing to do. DC, it literally made a circle around our base.
EN: Absolutely. BR: Yes.
BR: But it’s kind of like somebody seemed to have made a EN: And so there was the thing of: Are ships coming in? Is
decision without the courage necessary to say: Look, we’re sorry something going to happen here? What’s going on?
there were folks onboard that plane, but we had to do what we
had to do because of what had happened in New York just a little BR: Yes. What else is there that we don’t know about?
while earlier.
EN: Exactly.
EN: Absolutely. It’s what it is.
BR: Sure. Yes. Seen from a standard military viewpoint, you can
BR: Mm hm. Interesting. So what you’re saying then, again in really understand and sympathize with this situation. Absolutely.
summary, is, based on what you observed, you attach no blame or Now, did you have a chance to talk with your fellow trainee
involvement or anything to those people in that room who made when you were relieved from your duty in the room? Or the next
that decision, because they were doing their jobs. day? Or whenever?
EN: Yes. I don’t feel like they knew anything else. I feel like it EN: Yes. We talked about... We talked after. Yes. I remember
was a chaotic time, you know, where a decision needs to be made we went home together because she had a car. But actually
in haste, as quickly as possible. And I felt like everybody felt like neither of us wanted to talk about it. We just wanted to go home.
it was the right thing to do.
And I remember exactly what I did when I got home. [laughs] I
Like I said, if anybody knew this that this was something inside, have this CD. It’s called Peace of Mind. I put it on. I laid on my
they were really great actors. They should be up there with John bamboo carpet on the floor and I laid there and I let myself fall
Wayne. into the floor, like a meditation.
483
BR: Yes.
BR: You mean the whole modern myth that they...
EN: I was so overwhelmed. And I remember it was hard for her
and I, after that, to really connect. I think we both felt like, in a EN: Exactly.
way our mentality had been violated, if that makes sense. It’s
almost like you’re too young and you heard too much. It’s too BR: ...that the plane crashed.
overwhelming, you know?
EN: Is that what you meant? Yes. I didn’t know - I didn’t have
We heard things that we knew nobody else would know and that TV, I didn’t have access. I didn’t listen to the radio.
we were not supposed to say anything. And it actually led to an
interesting experience because we both had this We can’t talk And I remember my brother came to pick me up at the base once,
about this feeling that... and he took me out into the city, and I remember he and I were
talking about it. He was really big into reading the Illuminati
Totally different subject, but the same girl and I... A few weeks Trilogies, and just really into these things anyhow, so he asked
later, I think sometime the end of October, the two of us were me a lot of questions. And in this I know that we talked about this
running in the morning or in the afternoon or something near the as well, and I told him. He was the first person I talked to about
golf course and we heard someone screaming for help. any of this, and I told him everything at the time.
And the two of us looked in this direction and saw that there was BR: Mm hm.
an old man on the ground. And so she ran. And I jumped in front
of a Porsche with the Commander in it, and I told him to call the EN: But I didn’t hear about it on the base, as far as I recall. I
hospital, and they sent an ambulance. didn’t know about this.
She and I went to this man and he was having a heart attack. We BR: Yes.
both started CPR on him until... A man from the marines came at
that moment, and I was so grateful he did the mouth-to-mouth. EN: But I also remember the confronting feeling when I would
[laughs] I didn’t really want to do that, but I would have. be around ... because there were civilians that worked in the
hospital as well. And then when they would talk about the heroes
This was my first confirming experience of the spirit. I was and these things, the conflict that I had inside of myself was
checking his pulse, undoing his pants to relieve any circulation, wanting to bust out and say: That’s not true!
and I saw his spirit rise up out of his body, literally, like a blue-
greenish hue just lifting up out of him. And at this moment I felt BR: Mm hm.
completely peaceful, like: OK, he’s gone. And then I went and I
consoled his friends. EN: They didn’t crash the plane. If they would have crashed it,
there would have been a skeleton of the plane. There was no...
And why I’m saying this is because she and I never told anybody Nothing. It was blown up.
about this. We never told anybody that we tried to save this
man’s life. He ended up dying. He was revived enough but he BR: Yes. It was blown to pieces. Yes. So how... I mean, here we
died later in the hospital. are seven and half years on and you’ve talked to a lot of people,
given this a great deal of thought, read a lot of stuff that’s out
We didn’t say a thing, the two of us. We never talked about it. there debating all of this.
We didn’t say anything. And I know that is because we had this
thing: We can’t say anything. Both of us were afraid. How do you reconcile what happened in that room with the huge
pile of evidence that this was in some way a manufactured event,
BR: Mm hm. a modern Pearl Harbor?
EN: Somebody later approached us and we wound up getting In this conversation we don’t need to go into that, but I am just
awards and ribbons for Outstanding Action in the Military. interested in what your personal opinion is of the fact that there’s
an interesting irony here, that although you’re blowing the
BR: Because of that? whistle on the fact that this plane was shot down, you’re actually
giving support to what a lot of military people, good military
EN: Because we went out of our way to give medical attention to people, would say: We didn’t have a clue what was happening
a civilian. that day. Nobody knew. You know.
BR: OK. At what point, then, did you connect in with the EN: Mm hm.
mainstream media to find out what they were saying about all of
this? BR: And so, there’s an interesting intellectual conflict here with
this information that surrounds us. What’s your resolution of
EN: I didn’t have television in my room... and there wasn’t so that?
much internet at that time, or, I wasn’t so into internet at that
time. EN: Well, sometimes I feel kind of confused about it because I
think: Well, OK. I can see the rationale and I understand. It
A few months later I was granted leave to go home. It might have seems very logical and clear to me why the Twin Towers were
been Thanksgiving or something. Or maybe I heard it from taken out, why they were chosen.
family or a friend that this is what had happened.
484
It makes sense to me, all the evidence. I’ve seen so many movies, Henry was shocked. He was shocked by realizing what it was that
you know. This was planned. It was detonated just like a he had been asked to work on, because up until then he hadn’t
demolition. really known, and also by the reactions of his colleagues.
But why? Why had they also arranged a third plane? OK, so if And then he had several hours of deep inner conflict because he
the US government arranged to have these two towers taken out, could have sabotaged the whole thing by bugging the radio relay
why had they arranged a third plane? And where was this third system. And he didn’t do that. And he lives with that. And of
plane heading? course, if he had done it, they would have found out within hours
and he’d be a dead man, or as good as. But he didn’t do anything
Because to blow something like the cover of Site R doesn’t help he could have done.
the military. Do you see what I’m saying?
EN: Yes. So I guess I really don’t... It doesn’t make sense to me.
BR: Uh huh.
BR: At the highest level that occurs to me is... Of course, the
EN: So I don’t understand why this third plane would even be thing is highly compartmentalized, as it is in all projects.
playing a part in this. It doesn’t affect that.
EN: Mm hm.
The only thing I can think is if the third plane was also intended
for somewhere in the city [New York City] as well, and that the BR: There’ll be a group of people in the military, and in politics,
people actually did take over the hijackers and divert the plane so and intelligence, who knew that this was an inside job. Of course
that the plane ended up flying aimlessly someplace else. And of they’re not going to tell everybody. They’re just going to tell the
course the people don’t know how to talk over the radio or any of few who need to know.
these things. And that’s maybe something that happened.
Their very objective of compartmentalization actually comes out
And I have seen in a video, when you see the second plane crash in a story like this. There’s this... It’s this incredible irony that
in, there’s a third plane in the distance moving away from the you’re blowing the whistle actually on this situation that shows
city. I feel conflicted, actually. that there were senior Commanders who didn’t know what was
going on. That’s one of the reasons why they didn’t know, in case
BR: Yes. That third plane... we're told by our witness, Henry anything like this ever came up.
Deacon -- it’s known by researchers as “the white plane”.
Nobody really knows what it is. That was the data-relay plane. EN: Mm hm.
Signals were sent to that plane from thousands of miles away,
which were then relayed as a local control-point to the two planes BR: It’s sort of how they think, often thinking in defensive terms
that flew into the two towers. like: What happens? If this information leaks, then what? Then
what? Then what? So they keep it pretty tight.
EN: OK.
EN: Right.
BR: So that was like, it was basically a local radio relay point,
that third plane. That’s what it was. BR: It’s an extraordinary story. What was it that made you feel
that it was the right thing to do to tell this story, because you
EN: OK. must... I mean, you spent a lot of time thinking about this and
keeping it to yourself, as you had sort of trained yourself to do.
BR: We have that on record.
EN: Mm hm. I don’t think that I had found anybody that I would
EN: OK. really want to talk to about this. I have a friend who has urged me
to write about this in a book and I never felt like that was
BR: And what Henry told us was that, although he didn’t know necessary for me to do that.
what the whole operation was until the morning when he was
briefed about it, he had prior to that been working on the BR: Mm hm.
electronics hook-up for this remote control situation.
EN: I feel like it’s necessary that people hear this information
EN: Mm hm. Yes. and I’ve never been afraid that what I know... because actually, to
me, I know this. This is what was. It’s kind of logical [laughs] for
BR: And he actually describes how he was shocked when he was me. It’s practical that it happened like this.
briefed early in the morning at his place of work, like: When you
see all this stuff that’s going to happen which will be reported You have to make up a story and lie to make it not like this, is
television later today, don’t worry about a thing. This is just one how I see it. And also I just felt like I never had a place where
of our projects. Just forget about it. this information could be held and given in a good way.
And everyone just nodded and went back to the work. They BR: Mm hm.
didn’t even react to the plan that thousands of people would be
murdered. EN: It’s not like I would call Fox News, or something, you
know?
BR: Yes. Right.
485
BR: Yes. It’s a very, very important story.

EN: And more and more it really took some time and some
prodding to dig this out. Like I said, most of my abilities to EN: Mm.
remember things of my three years in the military are only by
recall if someone asks me a question, or if somebody asks me to BR: We will do what we can to draw the attention of 9/11
think about something. Most of it is a compartmentalized part of researchers to this. I don’t know whether they can draw any
my memory that I don’t think about very much. staggeringly startling conclusions from it. They’ll probably say
two things.
BR: Yes. It might be worthwhile just mentioning that as part of
this process and in preparation for this conversation, you called They’ll probably say: This is great. We thought it was heavily
somebody who you had spoken with and trusted at the time, to compartmentalized, and now we know it must have been. And
check whether you were remembering things clearly. Is that yeah, it was shot down, which we always knew anyway - but it’s
right? nice to hear it from somebody.
EN: Mm hm. That’s correct. And I actually didn’t tell him. I Because nobody has ever come forward on the record to say: Yes.
asked him to tell me. It was shot down because of standard military protocol. Nothing
nasty. Nothing evil. They were just doing their job.
BR: Yes.
EN: Mm hm.
EN: And he did it, word for word. Other than the minor little
remembering details, he told me exactly what I told you today. BR: Very, very interesting story. Is there anything else that you
want to add?
BR: I guess that’s confirmation that you’ve got it nailed, that
you’re not making something up. He said: Yes. This is what EN: I just feel like, if this could inspire others to come forward
happened, bang, bang, bang, bang. This is what you told me at and if they also know things like this, that would be fabulous.
the time. Because maybe there are some things that I don’t have correctly,
but it’s a step closer towards the truth. And that’s the most
EN: Yep. important thing.
NOTE ADDED:
12 April 2009
A note on the above Elizabeth Nelson [What Really Happened airspace. It was called because of the widespread
to Flight 93] interview. As can be imagined, there has been a emergency of that morning. She happened to be there
great deal of discussion of the audio and transcript all over the because events spiraled out of control. She had no
internet. A few comments may be helpful: clearance and was there merely as a very junior 'gopher'.
The situation about the unresponsive aircraft arose after
I (Bill Ryan) am willing to stake my reputation on the fact that the meeting had already started. Those in the military with
this young woman is recalling her actual experience to the best of experience will confirm that these events can sometimes
her ability. I have spent time with her and am 100% certain she is happen exactly as described.
telling the truth as best as she recalls it.
• Listen to the audio as well as read the transcript. The
• Researchers must differentiate between what she is audio quality is very clear and Elizabeth's voice is not
saying, and what she is not: disguised. Her authenticity is available to be assessed.
o She does NOT KNOW that this was Flight 93. While many dozens of people have written to us with appreciation
This was my surmise: she does not remember for Elizabeth's testimony, I have little sympathy with anyone who
the flight number being stated in the has the idle opinion that this must be disinformation. It is not.
conversation she witnessed. This new information raises more questions than answers, but that
o She does NOT KNOW that the plane was is nothing new in this arena. Elizabeth is a very brave person
actually shot down. That was her assumption. who's done her best to help us all understand what happened that
All she witnessed was the decision. day on 9/11. Camelot connected with her through a chance
o The words "brought down" or "shot down" do meeting after she had become familiar with our work. I've not
not imply that (e.g. if the plane was hit by a seen her since February, but she is a spiritual person with a big
missile) there would be a fuselage on the heart and, as she explains in her interview, has been carrying this
ground. load for some time. Every other genuine whistleblower will
understand.
• The teleconference she found herself witnessing was not

initially called because of the rogue plane in restricted
-- Bill Ryan
486
Project Camelot:
Whistleblower Testimony -
An Electrical Engineer On 2012-2013
6 April 2009
We have been contacted by the wife of an electrical engineer The information seems to tally with this
who has been officially briefed about a serious major threat to New Scientist article, just days old:
infrastructure in a few years' time.
http://newscientist.com/article/mg2012700
We believe this information is credible and important but the 1.300-space-storm-alert-90-seconds-from-
contact may now have been lost. Therefore we are publishing catastrophe.html
what we have - with many questions unanswered.
And yes, we HAVE heard (in October
This is the first message we received: 2007) from an insider scientist with a Top
Secret Clearance that they are expecting a
27 March CME sometime between this year (2009)
and 2012. He did NOT say how this was
known or forecast. He said that it ‘will’
Hello B & K happen... not that it ‘might’ or ‘could’. Our
question about how this was known was
My husband is an electrical engineer for a not answered.
national power company. He has just been
told that they are expecting an event in the 27 March
next 3-4 years that will render every
transformer in the world useless. They are
desperately trying to find a solution to the Hi Bill:
problem. If they don't, the entire global
electrical system will go down. I know this My husband is working away from home at
fits in with some of your research. Have the moment on this problem, and I have no
you heard about this? way of contacting him. He is not allowed to
carry a cellphone on the job. I'll clarify with
27 March him when I speak to him next, but the
impression I got was that it was definitely
going to happen. He mentioned something
Dear Friend, about electromagnetic clouds in space that
the Earth is drifting into. They are under
Your information is most interesting, and incredible pressure to find a solution. My
we’d love to know more.. even if it’s a husband is an engineer, a man of rational
minor addition or clarification. logic. He is not prone to flights of fancy,
but this news has disturbed him no end.
For instance: what degree of risk does
‘expecting’ involve? In engineering risk 28 March
management, it makes sense to mitigate
against an unlikely occurrence which (IF it Dear Friend:
happened) would have a devastating effect.
Or they really MIGHT be expecting it... in
other words have evaluated that such an Very many thanks. This information is
event will probably occur. Does your highly significant. We’d appreciate any
husband know which category this risk more information you can give us.
belongs in?
1) One question comes from your own
And does he know the nature of this very important description here:
‘event’? I would assume that it is solar...
such as the Corona Mass Ejection [CME] > He mentioned something about
of 1859: electromagnetic clouds in space, that the
Earth is drifting into.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/23
oct_superstorm.htm If you can fine-tune that sentence a little,
with his assistance, that would be critical.
487
We assume that he’s a senior engineer with much about it. I do not have a background
a good familiarity with theoretical physics. in physics. I shall answer your questions to
ANY clarification that he can accurately the best of my ability here, but it would
provide about EXACTLY what he was told probably be better to speak to my husband
would be most important. about the technicalities. I'll ask him to
contact you when he's next home.
a) In what way would these ‘clouds’
affect transformers? (I have a physics The problem will affect the entire planet,
background - please tell your and I believe that the attempt to rectify it is
husband.) This dramatic effect is a an international one, although I don't know
little hard to imagine. I’d love to what nationalities are involved.
understand this better.
b) Will non-hardened chips and circuits Sorry Bill, this is probably not very helpful,
also be affected? (Your husband will but my knowledge of this is extremely
know what ‘non-hardened’ means: limited. I couldn't even attempt to answer
military chips/circuits are ‘hardened’ to your other questions, I'll leave that to my
prevent them being rendered husband. I would not attach too much
inoperable by an electromagnetic significance to my choice of words, like I
pulse such as could come from a say I'm no physicist. However, the term
major solar flare or a nuclear blast.) 'electronic pulse' sounds familiar. I am
pretty certain my husband used that term
2) Any further clarification on (a) time himself.
scale and (b) probabilities?
3) Are ALL western (‘first world’) 28 March
nations aware of this problem?
4) Is the information formally classified?
5) How was he told, who was told along Dear Friend:
with himself, and is he expecting to be
told more? > it would probably be better to speak
6) Any personal statement from your to my husband about the technicalities.
husband (relayed by yourself) would I'll ask him to contact you when he's
be very valuable. next home.
Further thoughts: this matches totally with Thank you... if he’d prefer to relay
what our Camelot witness Dan Sherman information through yourself, this works
was told: that just fine: there’s no way of identifying you
or him from these messages, and it sounds
...at some certain event in the future, that as if many people in his field would have to
was going to be the only way that we can be aware of the problem, in various
communicate; because electromagnetic countries. So there’s no way he can be
communications were going to be disrupted traced. We’re very comfortable to leave it
on a world-wide scale. like that.
http://projectcamelot.org/dan_sherman_inte What we WOULD like to have is a better

rview_transcript.html understanding of the problem, based on the
questions I posed in my last message.
(Dan Sherman was trained as a military
telepath, and told his story in his > my knowledge of this is extremely
remarkable little book, Above Black. The limited. I couldn't even attempt to
above is the only thing he was told about answer your other questions, I'll leave
WHY he was being prepared in this way.) that to my husband.
Thanks again for this very valuable Fully understood.

information. We’re very much looking
forward to hearing from you again.
Your husband sounds like an intelligent,
aware and conscientious man and we
28 March would hope that he agrees that the public
needs to know this news. Our stance is that
Hello Bill, the mainstream media will not pick this up
(it is likely to be muzzled/ censored/
I apologize for the lack of detail, I am not classified), and that even in the alternative
being deliberately vague, I just don't know media few will really pay close attention.
488
But we do have a following of tens questions and I'll send it to you on his
(probably hundreds) of thousands of people behalf.
who will listen carefully and will then add
this information to their personal resource I agree with you when you say there must
base to consider when deciding defensive be many others in his field who are aware
steps to take to safeguard themselves and of this problem. I was hoping somebody
their families. had already contacted you about it. My
husband would not take it to the
As you will understand, a major event mainstream media in case it turned into a
affecting electrical power transmission witch hunt. There is a lot at stake here,
impacts EVERYTHING: no petrol pumps, and he is terrified of being identified.
no transport, no food in supermarkets, no Obviously we share a surname, hence the
TV, no radio, no phones. The only reason need for my pseudonym. I'm sure you
why the Solar Superstorm event of 1859... understand that.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/23 If the infrastructure really does collapse,

oct_superstorm.htm I'm confident that people will stick together
and help each other out. I believe the good
...had little effect on society is that it was in people of this world far outnumber the bad,
a pre-electrical and -electronic age. Horses and humanity shines brightest in its darkest
and carriages, steam trains, the postal hours.
system, and local farm produce were all
unaffected. These days, the world would 29 March
crunch to a halt overnight. Your husband
will understand the implications. Dear Friend: many thanks.
The military of the world have known > I think my husband would prefer not
about this for a long time and have been
to get too involved in all of this, he
preparing: hence the underground bases
they have been constructing. already has a lot on his mind and he is
under extreme pressure at the
moment. But you are right, he is a man
See
of compassion and a great believer in
http://projectcamelot.org/underground_base
human values. He thinks the secrecy is
s.html.
unjustified, that people should be
informed so they have ample time to
We have a LOT about this on our site. prepare. So I'll ask him to answer your
What’s so important about the information
questions and I'll send it to you on his
you’ve shared is that it gives must more
specificity to how we might all be affected. behalf.
Please give our warmest regards to your Fully understood, and 100% fine.
husband, and let him know that we and
thousands of others will very much > I was hoping somebody had already
appreciate this information and that we can contacted you about it.
guarantee to release it completely
anonymously - assuming that this is his It’s an extremely important confirmation of
preference. more general information we’d learned
from Dan Sherman (see my last) and from
28 March our scientist source (see my initial
message) who said that a solar superstorm
Hello Bill. of some kind would be upon us sometime
between 2009 and 2012.
I think my husband would prefer not to get
too involved in all of this, he already has a We’ve also heard many other more general
lot on his mind and he is under extreme rumors of major problems like this in the
pressure at the moment. But you are right, next few years (see our recent article
he is a man of compassion and a great
believer in human values. He thinks the http://projectcamelot.org/2009.html,
secrecy is unjustified, that people should be
informed so they have ample time to
published just a few days ago). What your
prepare. So I'll ask him to answer your
husband reports could not be more
489
important. What we need now, if at all You can trust us fully not to reveal to
possible, is more detailed understanding anyone any details that would lead to him.
about exactly what the threat is, based upon
my earlier questions. 6 April 2009
> There is a lot at stake here, and he is Despite several follow-up messages to our contact, we have heard
terrified of being identified. nothing more..
490
Project Camelot:
David Icke - Interview Transcript
Sedona, Arizona, February 2009
the focal point, and we want to really hear from you on whatever
subjects you get sparked by in the course of conversation.
David Icke (DI): OK. No problem.
KC: And then we’ll just kind of run with it and see how it goes.
Bill Ryan (BR): Something that I would like to say is that I think
we get more emails, and have done over the three years that
we’ve been going, asking us to interview you, and wondering if
there’s some weird reason why we haven’t.
DI: And now we’re both together. Here we are. It’s all
synchronistic in the end.
BR: In the end.

David Icke, one of the most visible, outspoken and controversial
speakers and writers about the Illuminati and the New World KC: Absolutely. So we’re here in Sedona, and you’re here, and it
Order control agenda, will need practically no introduction to was great that we were able to connect with you.
most readers of this page.
We've been in touch with David since November 2006, when DI: Great.
Camelot was relatively young. We had an interview arranged
then, but David had to cancel due to an emergency; and several KC: So, where we want to go with this is, we have whistle
later attempts to reschedule it all met with logistical problems. blowers, and I’m curious. Have you got your own sort of secret
Finally - over two years later! - we caught up with him in Sedona, sources that have been giving you information through the years?
and were able to sit down for a long conversation with him about
his life and his work. DI: No. What happened to me is I had an extraordinary
experience, or series of experiences, in the early 1990s. I was a
This is not an interview specifically about the information he's television presenter and a national spokesman for the British
researched and presents so lucidly in his famous long Green Party.
presentations, and in his many books - all of which are packed
with references, anecdotes and encyclopedic detail. It's more
about the man behind his mission; what makes him tick, and what Suddenly I felt, over 1989, that there was a “presence” in the
keeps him going; the source of his inner resolve; and, notably - room whenever I was alone, and it became more and more
anyone who mistakes David for a doomsayer, take note - his tangible as 1989 unfolded. It was bizarre, really, ’cause the Green
vision for Planet Earth: "The idea that this might not all have a Party in Britain had their biggest electoral year in 1989 out of
successful outcome", he told us, "Never occurs to me." European elections.
David's unflinching and remarkable commitment to his cause has And I was going through all this whenever I was in a room alone,
made life far easier for many who have come after him - like a hotel room or something. There was this presence, you
including ourselves. We owe him our own vote of thanks, and in know. Eventually it got so powerful towards the end of ’89 that I
this two hour FutureTalk we pay tribute to his life's work, and to was sitting on the side of a bed in a hotel called the Kensington
the man who is still standing after all these years, still marching Hilton in London, just down from the BBC headquarters...
on that road less traveled, determined to present what he suspects
is the truth, whatever it is.
BR: I know it.
Start of interview DI: ...and I said to this apparently empty room: Look, if there’s
something there, would you please contact me, because you’re
Kerry Cassidy (KC): I'm Kerry Cassidy, and we’re here with driving me up the wall.
David Icke and Bill Ryan. And we're going to be doing what we
call a Futuretalk. It’s basically sort of a roundtable discussion in
which we kind of bat around ideas. Certainly you’re going to be
491
About two weeks later, it must have been, I’m with my son. He And then suddenly she launches her head back and goes: My
was a little boy then. He’s a singer-songwriter now, in his mid- God! I’ve got to close my eyes for this one. This is powerful. And
20s. she sees this figure in her mind. She says: This figure -- or
whatever she called it -- is asking me to pass information to you.
BR: He’s six foot four.
Take into account, you know, I’m a television presenter,
DI: Yes. This is Gaz... Gareth. We were playing football, and we presenting the sport and the news at the time.
were going to go down into the town and get some lunch. I lived
in a seaside resort in a place called the Isle of Wight in England. And suddenly she starts saying that this entity, or this projection
And as we got down toward this ‘Greasy Joe’ Cafe, somebody, of Consciousness, was saying that I was going to go out on a
some railway worker, stopped me and started talking about world stage eventually and reveal great secrets. That there was a
football because I was on the television talking about sport and shadow across the world that had to be lifted. That there was
stuff. going to be a spiritual revolution in my lifetime because of a
Then after this conversation was finished, I saw that Gareth vibrational change.
wasn’t there. I knew where he would be. He would be in the
news shop just down, next to us. So I walked in and he was That’s why the first book I wrote was called Truth Vibrations,
reading steam train books, because he liked steam trains, like me. after that vibrational change. And one line was: One man cannot
And I said to him: Come on, Gareth. We’ll go and get some change the world, but one man can communicate the message
lunch. that will change the world. I would write five books in three
years.
And as I turned, my feet wouldn’t move. Now, this is a guy
who’s not been into any of this stuff. He’s a television presenter, I’m sitting there thinking: I know nothing about this stuff.
national spokesman for the Green Party, a journalist basically, [laughs] Five books in three years! You must be having a laugh!
and my feet wouldn’t move. You know. This was all new to me.
And I heard – it wasn’t really a voice, but a very strong thought- I wrote five books in three years, to the month, and I didn’t
form passed through my mind, which didn’t seem attached to me. realize I’d done it until I realized it was five and then went back.
Why would I think it? And it said: Go and look at the books on It was five books, to the month, in three years from that time.
the far side.
I went back another time, and the next time there was some more.
So I went over, and in among the romantic novels was this book So I left and waited.
with a woman’s face on the front. I picked it up ’cause it was so
different to the rest, turned it over, saw the word psychic.
Something felt right about it, even though my mind’s going:
What? What?
So I read this book in 24 hours and I wrote to her and went to see
her. And what I told her was I had arthritis - which I have - and
maybe a hands-on healing would help. I told her not the real Within weeks the BBC had decided they weren’t going to renew
reason I went, which was: Would she pick up what the heck this my contact, even though I was the youngest one in their
presence is I’d been feeling for nearly a year? Well, actually, a department. I was an in-by-a-mile presenter, and it would seem
full year by then. that I would have had a lifetime, a working-lifetime future there.
I went the first couple of times – and I saw her four times -- and When I look back at that thought, my emotional chakra, you
she did the hands-on healing and we had a chat about other know, starts vibrating wildly. The thought of being in the media
dimensions and stuff. It all made sense to me, because I’d always all my life! Oh, my God! When I look back... nightmare.
rejected religion and I’d always rejected the scientific view of
reality. I just hadn’t focused on: OK. What’s the alternative? Anyway, so now I’m out of work, but I feel I have to go with
this. And fortunately I’ve always lived below my income because
And then the third time I went, I’m lying there on this medical- I have a very... You know, I’m minimalist me. I’d rather have the
type bench thing, and I felt like a spider’s web on my face, which money to go to India than a big house with a mortgage on it.
really took me aback because I had read in her book that when
other dimensions, or whatever, spirits or whatever you want to Anyway. So I had enough money to keep me going for a year.
use, are trying to lock in to you, you sometimes feel like a And then it all started, this synchronistic, almost-daily... ah... this
spider’s web on your face. daily journey through a maze. And when I started out, it was a
thick maze. I had no idea what this was all about. I just felt I had
Well, funny enough, I never had before and I never have since, to go with it. I didn’t even know why I had to go with it. I just
but at that moment it was seriously powerful, real tangible. So had this... Gotta go with this.
I’m going: Oh my goodness! What’s going on? And she is kind of
doing this by my left knee. And I never said a word to her. And what’s happened is, it’s like some force has been opening
and closing doors, so I go down this road in a maze and not this
one.
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And so, coming around to answering your question directly, I just Of course, I was a well-known television presenter in Britain, so
follow, and have followed now for nearly 20 years, this pulsing, there was monumental ridicule, of a kind that few people can
this urging, this knowing that passes through me. So I edit my life actually experience. I mean, I would walk down the street and be
on the basis of that: Will you go here? Don’t feel to. Will you go laughed at by most of the people in the street for like two, three
here? Yeah. I’ll be there. years. A comedian only had to say my name, no joke necessary,
and get a laugh.
And what has happened as the result of just doing that is I’ve
walked into people, experiences, information, books, documents, KC: [laughs] But can we go back to that? Because I would love
which has taken me, when I look back, on a very specific to sort of drill down and find out what... How did you actually get
journey. I’ve described it before. It’s like you try to put a jigsaw into the reptilian situation?
puzzle together, and some force is handing you the pieces...
DI: Well, yeah, what I was just going to say... The reason I bring
KC: We feel the exact same way. this up about the synchronicity of my life is because from 1996,
when I started going through the reptilian stuff, because I’d been
BR: We’ve had the same experience. through that massive ridicule in the early 1990s, it had cleared me
out of the key thing that most people live in - the prison that most
people live in - which is the fear of what other people think.
DI: ...almost in the right order that you can encompass them in Therefore, to me, coming out from the late ’90s about the
the picture most easily. reptilian stuff was not a problem because the level of ridicule
could not be greater than what is before.
KC: Mm hm.
KC: But why did you have ridicule before? Because the only
DI: And so, first of all, in the early years of the ’90s and through ridicule I knew was about the reptilians.
to about 1996, all the synchronicity was about the five-sense
level of this conspiracy -- banking scams, families connecting, DI: Oh, no! I will tell you another story that leads into that.
the same people behind this, and behind that, and behind that; Towards the end of 1990, when I had finished the book, Truth
who’s behind the drug networks, and all that stuff. Vibrations, and it went off to the publisher to be published in the
spring of 1991, I had this overwhelming feeling - again, the urge,
Banking families and engineered wars. What was really behind the impulse - to go to Peru. And I had no idea why. I just had to
the Second World War, the First World War? And what’s this go to Peru.
network that is the guiding force of this conspiracy? All that
stuff. So I get on a plane to Peru, not knowing why I’m going there,
and I land in Lima airport. From the moment I landed amazing
And then from about ’96, when I came to America to talk about synchronistic things happened. But eventually I had this Peruvian
this for the first time... And lots of people turned up. I talked to guide chap who was taking me around.
eight people in Chicago, I remember that. That was what you
might call an expeditionary three months, because I was talking Funnily enough, the first time I met that guy was in Cuzco, in the
to myself most of the time. But I was picking up information as I old Inca region. And I went ’round to his house, because we were
passed around. going off traveling around Peru from that day, and he’s lying on
his back asleep. And I walked in because the door was open, and
What started then, from 1996 onwards, was the next stage of this, he looked up at me and he said, not: Hello, but: Did you have any
which is these families, which I’d learned so much about in the dreams last night?
years before, were actually connected to some non-human race,
or entities, for which they were basically fronting-up an agenda What? I said: Well, actually I did. I said: I had a real big clear
within this five-sense reality. That’s when I went into the whole Technicolor dream that one of these two front teeth fell out. Can’t
reptilian stuff. remember which one.
Of course, the synchronicity of my life, and my personal journey, And he said: Is your father or grandfather still alive?
and my communication of information are fundamentally
connected, because a massive part of my life is, as I’ve been
learning more and more, you know, my personal journey has I said: Well, my father is. Yeah. I said: Why?
been clearing out my own body computer programming so that I
can access higher and higher levels of Consciousness. Of course He said: Well, that’s usually symbolic of your father or your
everyone’s got the opportunity to do that and many people are grandfather dying.
doing it now.
I thought: Well this guy’s gonna be a bunch of laughs for the next
So I’ve had great challenges in my life at the same time as doing three weeks.
the information to break this up – break these programs up. One
of the biggest ones happened in 1991 when I started talking about KC: [laughs] Wow!
what was happening to me.
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DI: And when I next got a call out of Peru, my father had died arms were like that. When it was over, my shoulders were agony,
back in England. It was unbelievable. but when it was going on, nothing.
KC: Oh my God. What then started to happen is this energy coming through me.
This is February 1991. It got more and more powerful. My body
DI: Anyway, I go around with this guy and where it all leads, started to shake with it, and I had two very powerful thought-
which kind of... Fundamentally it leads to the reason behind the forms pass through my head, just like in the news shop.
ridicule.
The first one said: They’ll be talking about this 100 years from
Eventually he put us in a hotel called the Sillustani in Puno. It’s now. And I’m thinking: Talking about what?
kind of southern Peru, not far from Lake Titicaca. The Sillustani
Hotel was named after an Inca ruin site about an hour, hour-and- And the other one was: It will be over when you feel the rain. I’ve
a-half’s drive away. So there’s pictures of this place all over the just described what the weather was like. “It will be over when
hotel, of the ruins. And I said to the guy: I want to go there. you feel the rain”? I mean, you’re having a laugh, mate.
So we go out. I think he did a deal to get some money out of me So what happened then, for the next 45 minutes -- because time
because I go out in like a little tourist bus with windows on the disappeared; there was no time; I worked it out later – was that
side, with a tourist bus driver, and the guide and me. Nobody this energy just kept coming through me. And I kept going in and
else. [Bill laughs] out of, if you like, awareness, consciousness, like driving a car
and you go: Crikey. Where did the last two miles go?
We go out to this place, and it’s in the middle of nowhere.
Basically when you looked around, it was encircled by mountains One of these times when I came back to kind of awareness, I
- in the distance, mind. And I go there. The only people there are noticed that over the distant mountains there was a light gray
a couple of children with llamas for tourist photographs, but there mist. And kind of as I watched it, it got darker and darker very
were no tourists. quickly, and I realized it was pouring rain on the distant
mountains.
So I walk around for about an hour, and it’s very nice. It’s on a
hill with a lagoon on three sides. I go back to the car. And I’m... Over the next little while, however long it was, I watched this
it was nice, but it didn’t match the urge I had to go there. storm come out of the mountains. Weather people talk about, you
know, a “weather front”. Well, this was a straight line. The cloud
So I get into the van thing and we start to drive away. And I’m was a straight line. I’ve described it many times. It was like
looking out the window, day-dreaming, and I see this mound to drawing the curtains across the sky.
my right. It must have been no more than three minutes down the
road. And as I look at the mound, all I can hear in my head is: This thing’s coming towards me, and as it got closer, the sun’s
Come to me. Come to me. Come to me. Come to me. What? I’m gone. It’s been covered. All the clouds are billowing and I’m
really new to this stuff. I mean: What’s going on with my life? seeing faces in the clouds. It didn’t make sense to me, but I saw
faces in the clouds.
So I said to the guide: Can you stop the van? - the bus thing. I’m
going up the mound. So I went up the mound. I couldn’t see it And then it’s a wall of rain. I’m watching it coming towards me.
from the road, but when I got to the top, there was a circle of By this time I’m hanging on, you know, with this energy coming
standing stones about waist-high. These stones had obviously through me. Eventually it hits me - torrential rain - and
been there a very, very long time. everything stopped. That’s when I staggered forward and my
shoulders were agony and all the rest of it.
So I walk into the middle of this circle, and I’m looking across to
Sillustani, and across to the distant mountains, and it’s a piercing- Many other things happened, but when I came back to England
hot Peruvian day. No clouds, not a cloud in the sky. Very much after that... As I said earlier, my book was published in the early
like this one today. part of 1991, which is a matter of a very short time after this
experience.
I walked to the center of the circle, and suddenly my feet go
again, like they did in the news shop, but only seriously more When I look back now, it was like... You know, if you’ve got a
powerful. There’re like magnets pulling my feet to the ground. dam and it’s holding water back, the water is calm - right? -
And I think: Oh crikey. I recognize that. Here we go. because that’s its natural state in that situation, if you like. But
when the dam bursts, before a new balance is found after the
And then I felt like a drill going in the top of my head and damn bursts, all hell breaks loose in the water - right? - as it’s
through my body, through my feet, into the ground. And then trying to go from one state to another.
another one coming the other way.
BR: Yep.
And then my arms go out at 45 degrees like that. I never made
any decision to do it. And of course, you hold your arms out there DI: When I look back, what happened to me on that mound, it
for a minute, it starts to ache, or my shoulders do anyway. It was was like the waters of my mind bursting, and for three months I
the best part of an hour... it must be 45 minutes to an hour my didn’t know what planet I was on. Right?
494
In the middle of this, my book came out, and I went on the DI: Say again?
biggest live-chat show in Britain at the time -- it was called the
Wogan Show -- in a complete bloody daze about what was BR: Tempering the steel.
happening to me. It had all been in the national papers that
basically I had gone crazy.
DI: Tempering the steel... Yeah. Because as I keep coming back
to... my personal journey and what I’m doing in terms of
And I was sitting in this chair in the chat show and the audience communicating information absolutely are One.
was laughing within a minute, two minutes. And they basically
laughed for... I think I must have been on about fifteen, sixteen,
seventeen minutes, and from that moment on, because I was I was going to say what happened to me when I went out on that
talking about what was happening to me, except I didn’t university speaking tour. It was the University of Nottingham.
understand what was happening to me, and what that did was There were a thousand people there. I would say 950 had come to
trigger the most extraordinary levels of ridicule. And... ah... it laugh. I walked out on the stage, and it was literally the best part
cleared me out of that fear of what other people think. of fifteen minutes before I could speak, because it was just abuse,
ridicule, laughter, plastic beer glasses thrown at the stage.
But I learned so much about human behavior, I remember,
because what you’re supposed to do when you face that scale of I just stood there and waited for it to die down, because it had to
ridicule is run and hide. Right? eventually, and when it did, I said: You think I’m mentally ill,
don’t you? And you know what it’s like: [imitates raucous
audience response] Wellll yuuh... [and other rude vocalizations].
BR: That is one of the means that’s used to control us.
And I said: So what does that say about you? Because you’ve
DI: Yeah. So what I did is, I went on a university speaking tour actually paid to come here to ridicule someone you actually
[Kerry laughs] in front of all these students who had not come to believe is mentally ill. [Kerry laughs] I tell you what, you could
listen. They’d come to laugh. Right? hear a pin drop. And you could hear a pin drop for the rest of the
night.
KC: My understanding is that what you had is a kundalini
experience. Do you relate to it like that or do you call it To do what I’ve done in terms of talking about some really
something else? bizarre things, you know, my name still only has to be mentioned
in a national newspaper in Britain and it’s like complete ridicule,
DI: I don’t care. whatever I’m saying.
KC: But have you investigated or has anyone talked to you about BR: It’s toned down a bit.
that?
DI: A little bit, but not very much. I mean, I stood for election in
DI: No. No. I mean, I’ve talked to people about kundalini a parliamentary bi-election in July last year, July 2008 -- not to
experience, and maybe it was. See, what I do -- I can only talk for get elected -- I knew I wouldn’t get any votes; I didn’t want any
myself – is: What is, is. You know? votes. I mean, I must be the first parliamentary candidate ever to
put out a leaflet to everyone in the constituency saying: I don’t
One of the things that was said to me by the psychic, or through want your votes, just your brief attention. Goodness me, I didn’t
the psychic in 1990 when all this started for me was, they’re want to get involved in that! But, again, it was a great experience
saying: You will face enormous opposition but they will always and I learned a lot from it.
be there to protect you.
But the media coverage was... I did a media presentation for the
Now, I don’t know who they are. I’ve hardly even thought about national press which was about, I don’t know, 50 minutes,
who they are, because when I leave this genetic spacesuit, I will PowerPoint pictures and stuff, in which I talked about the five-
know who they are. All I do is I go with my intuition. sense level of it. Because anything else, I mean, even that blew
their bloody minds. Anything else, reptilians... I mean, crikey.
And what happened to me in 1991, with the great ridicule, was,
as life so often does, it gave me my greatest gift brilliantly What they did is they just went away and just abused me, and
disguised as my worst nightmare, because that’s what it was at abused it, and ridiculed me. And ironically, the one that did the
the time and in the experiencing of it. most abuse... One of the things I said was coming, actually about
six weeks later, was actually the front page story in his own
newspaper. I mean, it’s bizarre. These people have total cognitive
So what actually happened to me is, something transformed my dissonance so that they can’t put these two things together.
sense of perception and that’s good enough for me. I don’t really
have to know the detail of what happened. But a kundalini
experience? It could well have been. Yeah. So it’s still there, but it doesn’t matter, you know. We’re in a
situation where, thanks to the Internet, we can bypass these sad
people that work with their concrete minds in the mainstream
BR: And in the meantime it’s got something to do with media.
tempering the steel.
495
BR: And you don’t have to reach everybody, just enough people. And as the voice was telling me things, I saw pictures that
It’s The Hundredth Monkey principle. obviously were being projected. There was one where I walked
out on a stage and there was an audience. I just saw the front of
DI: Yeah. I’ll tell you what I feel more and more, you know. I the audience here and this voice said: You only speak words to
mean... Look, I can feel it when I speak, anyone speaks. It’s a keep the mind happy, basically to keep the brain happy.
vibrational communication. There’s silence between you and me.
There’s silence when you speak to me until my brain’s decoded And as this voice was saying this, I saw two women in the front
it. row of this scene that had been projected to me, and I’d walked
out to the front of the stage and I’d just stood there, and just said
What it is, is vibrational communication. And I feel very strongly nothing – Silence. And after a while this one woman nudges the
that it’s not just the people that hear this information, it’s the fact other one like that and goes, basically: What’s he doing?
that this information’s circulating.
And the voice... it was so funny what it said because it came out
If you do an interview for a radio station, 100,000 people might of nowhere. The voice said; You only speak because if you did
listen to it. But that broadcast frequency carrying that information not, the audience would be asking when the f??? is he going to
is passing through the ether, if you like, and is there to be start? [laughs]
potentially picked up by people who don’t even listen to the radio
interview. It touches them on a vibrational level, and, you know... That actually carries a profound kind of understanding, because
the real communication between all of us is unspoken.
KC: I think that’s right. You’re talking about The Butterfly
Effect, in essence. KC: Absolutely.
DI: Yeah, it... DI: And this is very good news. And this is what I would
impress upon people. The more you speak your truth - even if
KC: It multiples. That’s actually a very good way to put it. You people are not listening - you’re changing, or offering, a
know, on a subliminal level... because we exist on so many vibrational field which other people can tune into.
different levels.
You know, when I look at the speed at which people are
DI: Mm hm. Exactly. awakening, it’s not just because of information on the Internet.
It’s not just because of information in my books or someone
else’s books.
KC: It’s like waves. It’s actually... it’s hitting them. And there’s
the line that I’ve been quoting lately that says, you know: We
learn by osmosis just as much as by word. It actually permeates There is something massive going on, vibrationally, which fits
just by osmosis. totally with what I got through that psychic in 1990, which was:
There is a spiritual revolution coming and it’s taking the form of
a vibrational change.
DI: Yes.
I can see it. In 1990 - no evidence. Now? I mean, please. You can
KC: Into our skin. Into our brain. see it. I had people come up to me in LA when I spoke there
recently, saying: I was absolutely a part of the system until three
DI: Exactly. months ago.
KC: We’re receivers. KC: Right.
DI: Exactly. We’re receiver / transmitters. That’s what we are. DI: I read one of your books and suddenly I’m just totally
But people think that the only form of communication is voice- different.
to-ear.
Now, it’s not just because they read one of my books. If you start
I’ll tell you a funny story. In 2003 I was in the rain forest of tuning in to this vibrational change, then bang! Things can
Brazil and I took this ayahuasca psychoactive drug. Somebody happen real, real quick. And, personally, I find it such a good
didn’t tell me I was taking a psychoactive drug, but I’m glad I thing that, from my experience, I went through all that... that
did, though. It was fantastic. A lot of people have bad experience, nightmare experience in the early 1990s when I started to awake,
but... not knowing what the hell was happening.
This female voice talked to me as loud as mine is now for five Because now you can explain to people that if you have an
hours about how reality, physical reality, is an illusion. energetic construct here - which was you believing everything
Absolutely riveting stuff. Very, very funny. I mean, my feet were was real, and the system was serving you, and this is the cutting
the air a couple of times, it was so funny what was coming out. edge of human evolution, and all this nonsense - that vibrational
field is vibrating your state of being out[ward], and it will draw to
you people, places, ways of life, experiences, etcetera, locations,
496
which fit your inner self because the outer self is a projection of If you say: Look, this is where I want to go, and you realize that
the inner self. this is the transition to get there, then you can encompass the
unpleasant experiences as just that - an experience - which you’re
So when you start to transform -- this is what happened to me, going through to get to somewhere. And quite right. The
but I mean it happens to everybody -- to another state of being collective...
which then draws to you a very different group of people, places,
locations, ways of life, etcetera, there is a transition between the There’s so many levels to this, you know. People say to me
two. It doesn’t go: One gone! ’Ere you go! [Kerry laughs] sometimes: Tell me what’s going on. I say: Well, first of all, I’m
not the guru, but if you want to know what I think is going on, my
This one has to break down as this one emerges. It’s a process of question is: What level of what’s going on do you want to talk
one losing power over your reality, another one gaining power. It about? Because there’s so many ways to observe the same thing.
can happen very quickly, but it’s not like instant.
So on one level, these Illuminati bloodlines have crashed the
KC: That’s actually a very great metaphor for what’s going on in global economic system because they want to have that as a
the macrocosm of the planet. problem to which they can offer a solution, which is a fiercely
Orwellian, Fascist, centralized economic system.
DI: Exactly!
But on another level, I would suggest, well beyond their level of
comprehension - because they’re stuck in their own box,
KC: And in the United States in particular, but certainly otherwise they wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing - we are
England. You know, all over. We can see it here. I mean, what’s witnessing the transition from the Prison Society to the Paradise
happening here with the economic downturn and with people Society, if you like, or the Freedom Society.
losing their houses, their shells, if you will. It changes their lives.
And to go from the system we’ve had, which is based on control
DI: I couldn’t agree more. and imposition, to the system that we’re heading towards - which
is what vibrational change is all about - this has gotta go and it’s
KC: And the more you resist, I think, the more destruction is now going.
going to happen. The less you resist, the quicker the destructive
phase is over and you can actually start climbing back up. KC; Right.
DI: Exactly. DI: If people... And it’s easy to say this. It’s easy to say these
apparently trite things when, you know, you got a knock on your
KC: In your case, you were quite extraordinary in the sense that door saying you’re leaving your house today. But if we can hold
you had this radical change in your life. You went, you know, this level of seeing it, it makes it easier.
from black to white almost. There was almost no downtime for
you, it sounds like, although you said for three months... We’re going through this process where it’s all breaking down.
And if we can encompass it as what it is, which is a collective
DI: Three months was the big downtime. experience to get to where we’d like to go -- a world of freedom,
a world of kindness, a world of love, a world of freedom to
KC: But that’s extraordinarily quick, especially in the ’90s. express your uniqueness rather than be imprisoned in your tiny
Today, I think this is happening to people and they are going version and false identity of what you are told you are -- then it’s
through a quicker transition. And in some ways there’s also a much easier than if you seek to cling to the wreckage of the dying
reason for that, because you and people like you have made it system and hold it together.
easier for those that are following now to go through the changes.
KC: Right. In some ways, you were something of a pioneer,
DI: I hope so. where you had to go it alone.
KC: Breaking through a veil. BR: I imagine you must have much more support now from
everywhere, just in the way that Kerry is describing, than you did
when you really felt you were alone going down the rapids.
DI: I hope so. I mean, I get such satisfaction when people say
that they were helped in understanding what was going on. And
you’re absolutely right. I mean, I talk about this a lot now DI: Yes. It’s funny, though, because... I mean there are so many
because between that - the old self and all that it projects in what things I’d like to talk about that you just brought up, because I
we call the physical experience, and the new self which projects think it’s very, very important.
something else - there is apparent chaos.
I wouldn’t say I’m a loner, but my connection has always been to
Relationships breakdown, you lose your job, you can lose your that which is driving me and opening doors and pushing me in
house, and all this stuff, and if you live that as a physical, I-am-a- this direction, and I just follow that. So, although I was alone in
human-body experience, then it’s very, very challenging. so many ways when it all happened, I still had that connection.
And I still have that connection now.
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And people are very kind and very supportive, but I still basically BR: So people with gardens and independent means of doing
just operate in my own little bubble and just go my own way. I anything at all will be much more interconnected.
don’t deal with organizations. I don’t connect with other
researchers or anything like that. I just follow this impulse. But it DI: That’s the idea. You’re absolutely right. Absolutely. And so
is easier because there’s more people that are open to what you’re we now face this very situation you’re talking about, where we
saying. But, you know, what you’ve just brought up is very, very need to reevaluate our... and it would have been a good idea to do
important and... it anyway...
You know, for me, if not the greatest human disease of all KC: Yes. [laughs]
because everything comes out of it, I guess, is insecurity.
Ironically it was at the height of mass national ridicule that I
found my security. Because there’s that line in that song, I think DI: ...our symbols of success.
it was in the ’60s: Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to
lose. KC: Right.
KC: Absolutely. DI: Now, because insecurity is rampant in people and society,
both individually and collectively, and on the level of
BR: And you have to look inside for your security. You’re not governments and media and all the rest of it, are constantly
going to get it from anywhere else outside. getting people to feel insecure, most people do not get their sense
of who they are from in-here. They get it from what they think is
out-there. See? It’s in their heads.
DI: Yeah. I mean, you look at my situation in regard to that line
from that song in the early ’90s, early-mid-’90s, I was being
ridiculed by a nation, so I had nothing left to lose. And that’s KC: Absolutely.
when I found freedom, the freedom to break out of the prisons of
fearing what other people think. And basically I was: Laugh! DI: Therefore, if you are going to attract to you the recognition
Laugh, but this is me. you want that you’re an OK person, to feed your insecurity, you
have to succeed out-there on the basis of the symbols of success
You know, I saw a great car sticker. that out-there recognizes as success. And of course through the
media and indoctrination from cradle to grave, it’s more money,
bigger house, bigger car, fame, all this stuff, titles, and all this
BR: I am me, and I am free. business.
DI: I saw a great car sticker in California - it would be California BR: He who dies with the most toys wins.
- and it said: You laugh at me because I’m different. I laugh at
you because you’re all the same. [Kerry laughs]
DI: Yeah. So what you’ve got is, the insecurity itself is - to kind
of feed some acknowledgment to lessen its insecurity - it’s
I don’t laugh at people because they’re all the same, but it is chasing these symbols of success that society has decided is
ironic when this herd mentality is kind of focusing on one person, successful.
as it was in Britain at that time. And you look at them and you
think: You’re laughing at me? My God! [laughs]
And we forget other symbols of success: Am I happy? Am I
fulfilled? You know. Do I live in a society, a kind, loving society
And so, this economic thing that’s going... and, you know, I’ve that I’d like to live in?
been describing it recently as like a controlled demolition of a
building. You see the charges go off, and then there’s a bizarre
split-second before the building goes, and then it collapses. Well, All this goes by the board because the other thing about needing
in the economic terms of this crash, we are in that bizarre split- to succeed on this manufactured basis, to feed this, is that you
second now. then have to compete with all the other people that are trying to
succeed in the same way to feed their insecurity.
[I’ve been describing the economic situation we’re in recently as
like a controlled demolition, where you see the charges go off KC: Right.
and you know there’s a problem. But then there’s a bizarre split-
second before the building actually crashes. I would say that we DI: And that creates this “Dog eat dog / Top of the greasy pole”
are in, and getting very, very closer to the edge of by the day, that society, where everyone’s walking over everyone else -- not
bizarre split-second. everyone, but vast numbers of people are walking over everyone
else so that they’re the ones on the top of the pile that get their
We’ve seen nothing yet. I mean, this is a crash that no one alive insecurity fed most profoundly with the symbols of success.
today will have seen. It could be compared with the 1930s, but
because of the way the world is, and there’s more people, and the This insecurity is why you find some of the most insecure people
nature of home ownership and all the rest of it, I think it’s going you’ll ever meet in places like Hollywood and in the
to be bigger. entertainment industry because their insecurity is such... And
they’re not all like this. There are very secure people who just
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play music and like to act, but there’s a lot of insecure people you are, where you are, or the nature of the world you’re living
because they need that extra adulation to feed their insecurity. in?
And so, if we can move our point of observation from I am this This information, for me, is by far the most important because it
body that I see in the mirror in the morning. I am David Icke. I moves the point of experience from in-this-world to observing-
am Charlie Smith, Ethel Jones, whatever, to I am Consciousness this-world, or a mixture of the two, and that...
having an experience, then your values of what is successful
change because your point of observation of everything changes. If you’re in-this-world and you’re of-this-world, then what’s
coming is going to be a bloody nightmare. If you become the
It’s the mind working through the body that deals in status and observer as well as the experiencer by becoming more conscious,
symbols of success that are How high is your pile of trinkets? then it’s much easier. Because that’s not you, that’s your
Whereas, Consciousness doesn’t deal in trinkets. It knows they’re experience which you are observing and...
illusory. And, of course, when you deal in trinkets like that, it’s
the trinkets controlling you; you’re not controlling the trinkets. KC: Absolutely. This is something that... George Green says that
[laughs] he was in contact with the Plejarans and that they helped write a
book through him that says that exact thing, that you need to stay
BR: Of course. in the “observer mode”.
DI: And so, for me, the whole foundation, both of coming DI: Exactly.
through this crash to something much better as the result of it,
and the whole transformation in general, is moving out of Mind KC: And observe what’s going on and not get caught up in the
and into what I call Consciousness, which is that beyond this experience in such a way that actually, as you said, you become
virtual reality game, beyond this biological computer we call the of-this-world instead of in-it-but-not-of-it.
body.
DI: Yeah. And what I’ve found, as I’m talking more and more
And you can start to see the difference because Mind deals in about the reality we live in, is it does, if you like, take the edge
structure. It deals in hierarchy, and it deals in apartness. It sees off the fear of what’s happening.
everything as apart.
Because it is funny, really. I think that when we find out
BR: And polarization. everything that’s going on and the nature of what we’re
experiencing and what’s behind it, I think we’re going to laugh
DI: Yeah. And if that’s what you are, if that’s the way you’re for weeks. I do. I think we’re going to laugh for weeks. And we
seeing life, in terms of hierarchal structures, apartness, and thought it was THAT? Oh, my God.
competition, and all this stuff, you’re in Mind. Ironically, the
religions are in Mind. They’re all Mind constructs, the religions. The whole thrust of the maze and opening and closing doors
That’s why they have rules and regulations. since 2003, for me, and it’s getting more and more deep, and
deeper and deeper, is: What is reality? Who are we, what we’re
BR: Of course. doing here? And how do we interact with it?
DI: That’s another massive red light. Hey! Mind! And that’s And it’s very clear to me that this is a virtual reality universe of
rules and regulation and laws. enormous advancement compared with what we perceive to be
virtual reality simulations in this world. And, you know, this is
KC: And limitations. not just supposition. This is provable scientific fact.
DI: Limitation, a sense of limitation. So, if we can change our BR: Yes. I mean it’s so good that we think it’s real. [laughs]
point of observation so we cease to see ourselves vitally and the
world we think we’re living in, in those terms, and look at it from DI: Yeah. You know, the five senses just decode vibrational
a point of view of Consciousness... information into electrical signals, send it to the brain, and the
brain decodes it into this construct that we think is outside-there
I said earlier that this force that’s been kind of pushing me but it’s actually inside-us.
through my last 20 years took me through synchronistic
experiences to understand the five-sense level of the conspiracy, The only place this world exists, a so-called solid world, a three
then moved into the interdimensional connection and the reptilian dimensional world, is out-there, we think. But actually it doesn’t
connection to these families. exist out-there. Out-there is just vibrational fields. It exists in-
here as we construct it. And even the brain is a decoded
And since 2003 it’s taken me into what I know is by far the most construct, as well. It’s on an energetic level that we do the
important and that is understanding the nature of reality. Because, decoding, really.
you know, how can you get a grasp of your own life and take any
kind of control of your own experience, if you don’t know who This is very, very important because what the manipulators do,
because they’ve hoarded this basic knowledge and passed it over
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at the highest level of the secret society network and sucked it out And what the whole conspiracy’s trying to do is get us to look
of public circulation. out-there. Let’s go and protest. Let’s go and do this. Let’s go and
do that. And you protest and you have a million people on the
KC: That’s right. streets of London protesting against war. And what happens? The
war goes on, and then they start another bugger.
BR: Yep.
BR: It’s just more dialectic.
DI: They know that if we look out-there for answers, believing
that there is an out-there, instead of an illusory projection that’s DI: Yeah. We need to change the projection.
going on in-here, then we’re never going to change anything.
KC: This is actually something that we’ve come around to, and
BR: Yep. we’re aware that Consciousness is where the change has to
happen. And then Consciousness is also where you have to apply
the change in your vision of reality.
DI: Never! We’re never going to change anything, And once you
go: Ah! There’s no out-there, so where’s it coming from? Oh! It’s
coming from in-here, so this is where I have to change. Oh! You can’t actually just stop there. It actually has to permeate
There you go! everything. So it needs to be embodied in this body, but we have
to talk about who’s in control. So if Consciousness is in control
and I can use this to do, for example, what we’re doing here,
It’s what I call -- and this is what most people do because of the which can be used to further change, and push the change, and
suppression of this understanding -- is they stand in the movie help the change, then this is a good thing.
theater and they shout at the screen because they don’t like the
movie.
But it’s not enough, in other words, just go to in like Buddha and
simply sit in your mind and do nothing. Because doing nothing is
KC: Uh huh. also not the answer.
DI: And people say: You’re crazy. You’re never gonna change We actually came here with a purpose. A game is being played
the movie shouting at the screen. Go find the projection room. out here and if you stay in the Consciousness and you’re able to
Change the reel if you don’t like the movie! change your inner self and then mirror it outside, and facilitate,
which is what you’re doing, obviously. And obviously you
And the projection is deep within us, you know. Some research I embody this in your life. And what we’ve been doing with
saw recently says that only about 5% of behavior and decisions Camelot is we’re also talking about... You can’t actually
that we make are with the conscious mind. I would actually say demonstrate in the streets and get real results because it’s really,
that’s not true, personally. I’d say 100% of what happens in this you know, action / reaction. It’s really that.
three-dimensional reality’s only in our head -- actually is a
projection. DI: Exactly. I agree.
The conscious mind is actually not the decision-maker at all. It’s KC: But you can join minds and meditate. There are places for
the observer and experiencer of it, and it literally is the same action that are actually really proactive and can change the world
principle as a movie projector which comes from within, within in a positive way. It’s a very interesting dilemma for people that
what we call the subconscious, where all those patterns of air they have to actually embody the change that they seek, and live
which we’re being influenced by and are affecting our projection it. You know, you cannot be a contradiction to what’s inside. It
and our reading of it. And it comes out of the subconscious. By doesn’t work. There has to be a through-line.
the time it hits the screen in-here, symbolically on the movie
theater, it’s a done deal.
DI: Well, I would put it this way. I would say that, as I
mentioned a few minutes ago, that this reality, this holographic,
This is where the change has to take place -- within us -- to illusory, physical construct which we put together in our heads is
change the projection which is our conscious mind’s experience. like a holographic Internet, I call it. That is 100% a projection
People are so caught in the conscious mind as that’s the only and by the time it hits the screen, it’s a done deal in our
level. experience.
I mean, you hear them talk about subconscious and all that stuff, But a lot of people I’ve come across and heard, they do think that
but really it’s: I thought it. Well, how come experiments have if you just sit and meditate or just go within, then that’s all you
shown that the electrical changes and muscular changes to make need to do. But this is a projection and it’s a projection from
an action happen, happen a split-second before the conscious somewhere. So this projection is an open book of the inner-us,
mind has decided to do it? individually and collectively. So what we play out in this
experience says everything about our state of being.
It’s because they’re playing it out. And so, this talk about We
must go within, this New Age “must go within” -- and there’s You can say Go within, and you can use it as an excuse to not go
much about the New Age I would challenge -- but this basic without and you can go within and meditate. OK. So what’s
theme is absolutely right, I would say. happening in the projection as the result of what you’re doing?
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The only projection that you’re affecting is you sitting cross- What has happened -- and I would strongly suggest it’s been
legged in the corner. What else is changing? manipulated to happen, not least by these families and other
levels of manipulation -- is we have been manipulated into a false
Yes of course you can change things vibrationally, to an extent, identity which is identifying who we are with Mind, which
but what is happening in the world is saying what’s happening in operates directly through the body, and calls itself “David Icke”,
us, and we’ve kind of missed that connection. So, if we’re doing “Ethel Jones”, “Charlie Smith,” that looks in the mirror and
nothing to make a contribution to the kind of world we’d like to thinks that’s who it is.
live in, in the physical world, then that says something about the
state of us within. But we’re not doing that. Basically, you know, this is a biological computer. It’s not a
computer that just reacts to the way it’s programmed to react to
KC: Right. data input. It has the ability to -- they call them living computers -
- biological computers. They’re trying to build them now in
different parts of the world. It has the ability to assess
DI: And I see so many excuses being made by people who have information and make decisions on it. In other words, to quite a
become to a certain extent aware of some of what’s going on, so large extent it has the ability to think.
that they can justify to themselves why they’re doing nothing.
People say to me: You don’t tell us what to do.
What happens is, if we get caught in Mind and self-identity or
“That reflection in the mirror is me”, and not just my experience,
And I say: Well, actually, I talk about becoming conscious and then Mind starts to govern our sense of reality. And Mind is
all that stuff. I think, you know, that’s a start. But, it ain’t for me about division, apartness, hierarchy, rules, regulations, laws,
to tell you what to do. And if you think that I have to tell you what limitation.
to do, then you’re not listening, because this is about taking
power back to the point where we project, rather than looking
out-here at a done deal. And, you know, you can have someone in the New Age arena
who talks about spirituality, talks about other dimensions – which
are other virtual reality games, I would suggest - other levels, but
KC: Absolutely. blatantly is stuck in Mind and the values of Mind.
BR: There’s an active paradox here, isn’t there? Because that’s I mean, I hear New Age people talk about the Great White
not the whole story. Otherwise you’d be sitting in the corner Brotherhood and the hierarchy of the angels, and stuff. That’s
smiling and not talking to us here, and not working as hard as you Mind talking!
do, and not talking to people to help the process of waking them
up so that they can then join you in this understanding, which we
share with you also. BR: Of course it is.
It’s important, in a sense, to pretend that all this is real, because DI: Consciousness doesn’t do hierarchy. It just is. All possibility.
this is the platform from which we can waken ourselves up and All that is.
rejoin Consciousness again. And so it’s a paradox. It goes on at
both levels. What you say is true, and this all is an illusion, and it BR: Yep.
all doesn’t matter. But it’s all important enough for us to be
talking about it. DI: And so, the same mind-construct, The Mind, can entrap a
New Ager as it entraps in another part of The Mind a Wall Street
KC: What I was saying is, in your presentation where you’re banker.
talking about Consciousness and the Mind and the problems with
staying just in Mind... There’s a lot of brilliant people out there BR: Yeah. It is just another religion. It’s another religion.
coming to brilliant conclusions. And yet they can’t live it. You
see? The manifestation doesn’t go anywhere.
DI: Yeah! That’s the thing, you know. I was talking to... on an
interview yesterday, and we got into some interesting areas. He
DI: Yeah. It becomes an intellectual, academic kind of point of asked me about religion. Well, religion and the political party,
observation rather than Consciousness, which is something that and the New Age, and all these things that we don’t call
just is. “religions” – institutions - they’re all the same construct.
The difference that I am now increasingly making is between KC: Right.

Mind and Consciousness. And I would go further and say that we
talk about “my mind, your mind, his mind, her mind”. I don’t see
it like that. I talk about The Mind. DI: Because Consciousness just is. Consciousness doesn’t think.
Consciousness knows. That’s why Consciousness is silent when
we access it, because it’s got nothing to work out.
The Mind is a construct of the virtual reality universe which
allows us - Consciousness - to interconnect with this virtual
reality. It’s like a conduit. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong The Mind is where the chatter comes from because it’s constantly
with it whatsoever if it serves the experience of Consciousness, trying to work things out. [makes chattering sounds] What about
and serves our ability to interact with this virtual reality universe. yesterday? What’d she say about me? [more chattering sounds]
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Silence -- Consciousness. So, to hold you in Mind, and this So once you’re into belief, a rigid belief, then they gotcha. And
conspiracy is about holding the population in Mind because then that’s why they want to sell you rigid beliefs.
they gotcha...
BR: Yes.
KC: Absolutely.
KC: Absolutely.
DI: ...because that’s their stadium – Mind. They’re stuck in
Mind. If they were conscious, they wouldn’t do what they’re BR: There’s an active paradox here, isn’t there? Because that’s
doing. To hold us in Mind, they have to sell us something to not the whole story. Otherwise, you’d be sitting in the corner
rigidly believe in. smiling and not talking to us here, and not working as hard as you
do, and not talking to people to help the process of waking them
So, religions ... brilliant example of rigid belief. And what is it? up so that they can then join you in this understanding, which we
Once you rigidly believe something, you then call it a name. share with you also.
What are you? You don’t say: I’m Consciousness. How many It’s important, in a sense, to pretend that all this is real because
people say: Hello. Who are you? I’m Consciousness. Oh, so am I. this is the platform from which we can waken ourselves up and
Nice to meet you. rejoin consciousness again. And so, it’s a paradox. It goes on at
both levels. What you say is true, and this all is an illusion, and it
No-no. What we are is what we do: I’m a journalist. I work in a all doesn’t matter. BUT it’s all important enough for us to be
factory. What are you? I’m a Hindu. I’m a Christian. talking about it.
These are mind-constructs. These are mind-prisons that limit our DI: It matches, Bill, in the sense that... Do we want to experience
sense of self. So once you have a rigid belief, then you give it a a reality that’s very, very unpleasant, and controlling, and
name. limiting, and frightening, and stressful?
Now, I have a simple philosophy about all this: If you can tell me Or do we want to experience a reality that is loving, kind; where
what you believe and give it a name, you’re in a prison. Because no-one goes hungry in a world of plenty; where there is no war
everything just is. We all just are. It’s “The Force with No because no-one would even consider the idea that it was a
Name”, I call it -- Consciousness. possibility or an option?
And so you create religion and then after the name, then comes That’s the choice we’re making. We’re always Consciousness,
the rules and regulations -- this is how the construct goes -- of and when we leave the body we’ll become at least much more
what you have to conform to if you are going to be allowed to aware of everything than we are now.
call yourself whatever name that’s been come up with. You’re not
a Christian if you believe that. And all this stuff. So we’re always conscious. We’re all eternal Consciousness. But
the question is: What kind of experience do we want here?
Then you look at political parties. You have a group of people.
They get together and they want to do something politically. So KC: Exactly.
they give what they’re doing a name: Democrats, Republicans,
Labor Party, Conservative Party, whatever. So there’s the name. DI: You know, that’s the choice.
Now come the rules and regulations that decide if you can call KC: We call it, What kind of game do you want to play?
yourself one or the other. You can’t believe that and be a
Conservative. You can’t believe that and be a Liberal. It’s the
same construct, wherever you look. DI: Yeah.
BR: Yes. KC: We have a chance now, because we are Consciousness, to

change the rules of the game, to make it something different than
it is. Change inside, but let’s also agree, because that’s what’s
DI: And then the belief system... As research has shown, rigid happening. That’s what a Consciousness revolution has to be
beliefs, the neurons fire off in a certain network and sequence, in about.
line with the belief, because what the brain’s doing is then
filtering, decoding reality and circumstance through the belief
system, which manifests in the brain as the way the neurons fire It’s not good enough for you, David Icke, to have got it. It’s not
off. good enough for us to have got it. What we need is for everyone
to get it, to tune this game here on this plane, because that’s what
it’s really about.
And suddenly, instead of being free-thinking, or even better, free-
knowing - conscious - you are operating in a tiny little box. And
that box is basically the way your... Not basically. It is the way In other words, Consciousness... and this is where it gets into
your brain decodes reality. What is Consciousness? It’s love. And what is love? It’s actually
the awareness of all of us.
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DI: Hmm. Well, I would say everything is Consciousness. Mind can see her. Why? Because their brain has not been programmed
is Consciousness, but it’s a much denser expression of not to read that energy field into a holographic form.
Consciousness, and that’s why it sees everything in terms of
limitation. Now, just as a quick aside, how many things, collectively, are we
not reading that are there to be read?
And as people become conscious, it can - to use the term of a
friend of mine in South Africa - Consciousness can KC: Well, one of the things is there’s more than five senses.
“conscientize” Mind and bring its awareness out of the level that OK? And the heart is... It’s not just the mind. It’s actually the
it currently perceives reality. heart. It’s really the heart and the intelligence of the heart that
you can see through if we’d only use that. So it’s more than...
But I do think it’s important that, if we’re going to play this game
successfully, that we understand where the game’s being played. In other words, these are tools for us. Our mind is a tool. Our
It’s not being played out-there. heart is a tool. But you can’t stay up here. [gesturing to head]
You’ve actually gotta go through the heart to really see. See, we
See, what the five senses are doing, like I said earlier, is that don’t see with our eyes. That’s actually... that’s a construct.
they’re decoding vibrational information, turning it into electric That’s a mental construct.
signals. The brain then constructs this apparent reality out-there,
which actually is only in-here. DI: Yeah. We see with our brain.
So the prime reality is vibrational. That’s the prime reality. That’s KC: We actually see with our heart more than anything else and
where the change has to take place, because as the change takes through the heart. And so what happens is, it’s a union between
place there, the five senses decode different vibrational states into the mind and the heart...
electrical signals.
DI: I agree.
BR: There’s that wonderful story told by Michael Talbot in The
Holographic Universe.
KC: ... that allows you to see. And you could put yourself in that
man’s position and say: How could the man see through the
DI: Yeah. implant that was put into his brain?
BR: And I read that page over and over again when I first saw First of all, what did he do? He had to accept the magician’s, you
that book in the late 1980s. This is the story about the stage know, implant, to begin with. So in the same way, we in society
hypnotist who hypnotized the father to believe that his daughter are accepting the implant, whether it’s television or whatever,
was invisible. And then he was able to read an inscription on the which is blocking our real view of reality. We’re accepting it.
watch held behind her body, because for him she was no longer
there, and reality had changed. It was physically different in his
mind. DI: Yeah. I mean, the thing is though, that what the hypnotist
was doing was just programming the decoding mechanism.
DI: Well, this is the whole point, you see. For a hypnotist to put
a watch behind someone’s back and someone the other side of it BR: Yes.
read it, that’s perceived to be impossible. But it’s only impossible
if you believe this world to be solid and real and out-there. DI: And therefore he didn’t decode a vibrational field, i.e., his
daughter, into a holographic form. Therefore he didn’t see her.
The reason it could happen is because the prime reality -- and I
can’t emphasize this more -- the prime reality that is playing out And I completely agree that the heart has the potential to be a
here is vibrational. That has to change or this can’t change. massive part of our reality-decoding, our reality-expression.
And so, if the hypnotist, as he did, implanted the program into the But we also have to appreciate that this conspiracy... While we
guy’s brain not to decode the vibrational level, the prime level, of see the George Bushes of the world and the Barack Obamas and
his daughter through this system into a holographic, so-called people like that, the Kissingers, the real level of this conspiracy,
physical form that we see, then he would decode all the other where the world is being controlled, is on a vibrational level.
vibrational fields in the room into people and walls and furniture.
That’s why I talk about these reptilians that are doing this and
But because it’s like a computer being fire-walled off, he doesn’t others, too, operating outside this reality. They operate on a level
decode the daughter’s prime state -- your prime state, our prime of the vibrational level. That’s where the manipulation’s going
state, the prime state of everything, this vibrational level -- into on.
the holographic, apparently out-there reality.
BR: Yep.
And so she doesn’t exist in his head as a holographic form, i.e,
supposedly physical, so he can’t see her. Because she’s not there, DI: And we need to be, you know, kind to ourselves as well, in
he can see what’s behind her. Therefore he can read a watch even understanding the challenges that we face, and not least trying to
though she’s standing there to everyone else in the room. They
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understand a world that is being manipulated into a state, or has which is a much more out-there connection and sees everything
been manipulated into a state, which has just stopped us in unity, the creative urge.
understanding the world.
Then you’ve got the bridge, the corpus callosum, which ideally
And so, you know, we look at television and the manipulation of should be sharing information so you’ve got a balance. You’re in
television and newspapers and stuff, but when we see a this world and of it. You know.
newspaper or we see a television program, we’re just seeing the
decoded version of a vibrational field. But what the conspiracy does -- again it’s all on a vibrational
level that it goes in, and then it plays out here -- is they put,
Those newspapers and those television programs and news symbolically, soldiers on the door to the left brain.
programs, all the rest of it, they are actually “physical
holographic representations” of the prime reality, which is a This is why, to progress within this society, one of the most
vibrational field. effective ways is to keep passing exams, and passing exams, and
getting degrees, and all this stuff, because that’s... An exam is:
BR: Yeah. Yes. Here’s some left-brain information, now give it me back on a
paper telling me what I’ve told you to believe. OK. You’ve done it
DI: It’s at that level that that manipulation we call “subliminal”, very well. You’ve got a first-class degree. A first-class
that manipulation we call “lying to the people,” and all the rest of indoctrination, often.
it, actually happens.
Now, what this conspiracy information, on a five-sense level
And so basically what they’ve done is pull a vibrational veil over does, it talks to the left brain in the language the left brain
us. If you can make it powerful enough and dense enough, you understands. And I’ve seen it over the time in my personal
focus peoples’ sense of perception into such a narrow area that experience, and of course other people would have seen it, it
they disconnect from an awareness, and therefore a deep effect in starts to make the left brain change its sense of reality.
their perception of consciousness.
Once it starts to change that, it starts to think: Well, hold on a
You’re isolating their point of observation into Mind. And that’s second. If everything I thought about the world here was wrong,
happening on a vibrational level which then plays out in what we and it’s not like that at all, what the heck else is in this world is
call the physical world. not like I thought it was?
BR: Yes. I’ve seen this, where people, once that left brain starts this
process of withdrawing from a sense of “It knows what’s going
on” to “I never knew”... then it starts to move. As it starts to
DI: So what’s vital - and this is why this information is so move, it literally starts to open to other possibility, and then this
important - not just... I’ll tell you what I’ve found. Nothing movement between the hemispheres can start to happen.
represents literally and symbolically the prison [more] than the
left brain, which deals in apartness, language, hierarchy,
structure, and all this stuff. I’ve seen people who would have laughed in my face about
reality and all that stuff, who now encompass it because they
went through the process of credible names, dates, places, five-
And the information about the five-sense conspiracy, I’ve found, sense information, explaining logically why the world is not like
one of its great values is that it operates in a left-brain realm. they thought it was on a five-sense level. Everything starts to
When you’re explaining how this and that and the other is move then.
connected to the same people, and they control that, and this is
what they’re doing, and these are the techniques they use ... that’s
left-brain information. So, you know, it’s important that the de-programming of peoples’
manipulated sense of reality happens on multi levels, not just
kind of, you know, “We must become spiritual, we must go
KC: Oh yeah. within”, you know.
BR: Yes. I mean, people say: Oh, Alex Jones, he just frightens people. And
all that. Well, hold on a second. You know, just hold on a second.
DI: And when people say: Oh, you shouldn’t put out that
information. It’s negative. They don’t understand that we’re You know what’s negative? It’s not information. It’s ignorance.
looking at a multi-level situation. Therefore we have to deal with That’s what’s negative -- ignorance. And if you want to be
it on a multi-level basis. That means covering all bases, not just ignorant, and therefore a manipulator’s party trick, then you go
sitting cross-legged on a mountain. ahead.
BR: Of course. And if you want to look at the information, the five-sense
information that I put out, and Alex puts out, and people like that
DI: Now, what I’ve found over the years is that once the left and many others, and say: It’s negative. It’s frightening...
brain... Because symbolically I see, you know, you’ve got the left
brain, which is what I’m talking about. You’ve got the right brain
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Well, the fact that you find it frightening instead of empowering Out-there, symbolically. So what we’re doing is giving the power
because you now understand the game better and therefore you away into the illusion and then wondering why nothing ever
have more power to do something about it, then that is not a changes.
statement about those putting the information out. It’s a statement
about the way you’re receiving it. The whole conspiracy, or the foundation of the conspiracy, is to
persuade 6 billion people to give their power away every day.
BR: Exactly. Something that we like very much was something And the power used to control us is the power of these people
that George Green said to us in our interview with us April of last saying: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you
year. He used this little analogy. very much.
He said: Listen, if your car is on the railroad track, and there’s a Take it back, house of cards comes down, because that’s what it
train coming down, and you don’t know that, and I don’t tell you, is. It’s a house of cards, and we’re holding it together in-here.
then it’s shame on me for not telling you and shame on you for We’re constructing the house of cards in-here. Great news... we
not knowing. And this is just a nice little way of encapsulating can bring it down in-here.
what you’re saying.
KC: Right. But I have to say that we’re not only gonna do that
DI: Yeah. I have an analogy I use, very similar to that. I talk with the Mind. That’s what’s really important here.
about the - not the hurricane coming... What do you call them?
The twisters? BR: No, the Mind plays it out. We gonna do it by becoming
conscious. That’s the point.
BR: The tornadoes.
KC: Absolutely, but also left brain / right brain. I want to address
DI: The tornadoes. Yeah. And the tornado’s coming but you that a little bit.
have put your head in a bucket of sand because you don’t want to
face the fact that the tornado’s coming. Now, you can hide from DI: Right.
that for a while, but you’re still there and the tornado’s still
coming. And your bum is still in the air, and it’s gonna get
smacked very shortly by a tornado. KC: Because it’s not enough to reconstruct reality based on
things getting to a place where you don’t know, and then you’re
willing to open to a new construction of reality such that you’re
If you lift your head from the sand, face the situation that you’re going to play the game different, but you’re still lodged in the left
in -- there’s a tornado coming -- now you have taken power back brain.
to yourself by saying: OK. I see the situation now. I can take
avoiding action, for my benefit.
You must bring in the holistic view, the view that encompasses
the heart, that encompasses the female, which is the yin-yang side
BR: Of course. of things, because what we have here, has been playing out for
centuries, is a really yang view of reality, especially on the
DI: And this is why it’s so important... You know, I hear people Western side of the world.
who you might New Age, who talk about “letting go of fear” and
“taking your power back,” and “Come to this workshop and we’ll DI: Well kind of. I’d say it slightly differently.
show you how to do it.”
KC: So what I have to say is, it’s more than just reconstructing
And then they say: Oh, you mustn’t talk about this conspiracy. the left brain in a new way to play the game better, because that’s
It’s too negative. What happened to letting go of fear and all this actually cheating yourself on another level.
stuff, you know?
You need to grow and open the door between the left and the
BR: These are the guys who heard that the Angel Gabriel is right brain, such that there is a flow. And that means that you’re
going to come and save us, you know? That doesn’t work either. talking about the heart. You’re talking about senses that are
beyond the five. And so you have to...
DI: Every level ... it seems to me every belief system, every
mind construct, seems to have a version of the cavalry coming What you had to do in your own exploration was... you never
over the horizon, you know: OK. Here’s the cavalry. OK? Here’s would have gotten the information you wanted to get by staying
the cavalry. Here’s the cavalry. There’s the cavalry. in the left brain. As you said, you had physical sensations. They
locked your feet. They gave you information that came out of
And we need to understand that, you know, because if we give nowhere. You couldn’t make logical sense of it. Logic was out
our power away to other people, where do those other people the window. So left brain’s gone, you know. It’s even worse, or
actually... Where do they actually stand, physically, as we give useless, when you get into that place.
our power away to them?
DI: I agree.
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KC: So you must actually... It’s like traveling, in a sense. You And if we, when we’re faced with choices all through the day,
must actually travel to a different place. What you do [meaning ask that question: In this circumstance, what would
David] is, you follow your intuition. Consciousness do? And act upon it – crucially -- then everything
changes. And our life changes.
DI: Right.
Why? Because we are now starting to resonate with
KC: You’re over on your, I guess they call it the right side of the Consciousness because we’re operating in its realm, which is...
brain. That’s where you are. That’s where intuition resides, so By doing what we say Consciousness would do in these
you’ve opened that door. There is a flow. And that’s really what circumstances, we are vibrationally locking in to that level and
has to happen. therefore becoming more and more influenced by Consciousness.
DI: Well, yeah. I mean, I take my intuition, which has guided me When we say: Well, yeah, I see that, but it’s not good for me if I
and has lead me to information. Also it’s like a filter. I have a do what’s right in this situation. I must do what’s right for me.
vibrational sensation when something is not true and something That’s Mind, so that’s locking you into Mind.
is true, and another one when it’s maybe partly true.
You know, this thing about becoming conscious... I see it so
KC: That’s holistic. often all over the world. I mean, I was in India just before
Christmas. And, you know, good luck to them, but they make it
sound so complicated.
DI: Yeah. The left brain’s still important in bringing those
concepts down into a language of communication that people can
assimilate that are stuck in the left brain. Because if you don’t And you know, a lot of the complication, I see this with New Age
talk in logical -- from their perspective, logical terms that the left people that stand on stages and do workshops, not all of them of
brain can understand, which is under lock and key -- then that course. I see it with gurus in India and stuff like that. Not all of
key will never open. them, again, but vast numbers of them.
And that is also why what you’ve just said, that you will... Except The complexity says two things: One, they don’t really
on rare occasions when I’m talking in a very small time-scale or understand it, because if you really understand something, you
doing an interview on a specific subject, I will never talk about can put it in simple language.
the five-sense conspiracy without the nature of reality, and the
influence of Consciousness, and all the rest of it. BR: I’d agree with that.
Another point you make is about the heart. I agree. The heart is DI: This is why you get academia repeating jargon. And you say:
absolutely at the heart of this and is much more powerful than the Look, I’m an idiot, mate. OK? I’ve never passed an exam in me
brain and much more powerful than The Mind because it is life. I left school at 15 to be professional soccer player. You’re
connected. I would say that’s what connects us through the gonna have to put it in language I can understand. They can’t
Consciousness. because they don’t really understand it. They’re just repeating
jargon.
And this conspiracy also... Because, you know, it’s a simple
thing. In the deep shadows behind the people in dark suits is a And the other side of the complexity of becoming conscious is, if
force, whatever you want to call it, that understands how this you can make it sound complex, then you’ve taken power over
works. your potential audience. That’s a big thing.
KC: Right. KC: Absolutely. It’s still a power game.
DI: So they’ve structured a society that is to close down all the DI: You have to come through me. And the more I make it sound
channels to Consciousness, to isolate us in Mind because then complex, the more power I have, and therefore the more you must
we’re playing in their stadium. And one of the key things they come to me, and the longer you must stay with me. And, by the
use is to close the heart. To close the heart. way, put the check in the box as you leave. [Kerry laughs]
And if you want to open the heart and you want to become And yet it is so simple. This is the point I would make. People
conscious -- it’s what I say in my talks -- then what we need to do talk about “We must become conscious”. It’s a lie.
is to ask the question: What would Consciousness do at this
point? We are conscious. That is our natural state. What’s happened is,
barriers that we have been manipulated -- and we’ve, you know,
Would Consciousness, when we’re faced with this set of must take responsibility for it too, big time -- are put in place,
circumstances say: Well, what’s the best outcome for me? No. have symbolically created a concrete shell around our natural
Consciousness would say: What is the right, just, fair thing in this state. And in this concrete shell are all the things that control
situation for me to do? people -- fear and stress, and conflict, and seeking success, and
competition, and all this stuff.
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It’s not that we have to become conscious. We are conscious. It’s KC: As that happens, they’re intensifying their game to want to
breaking that shell. And that shell is Mind domination. If we can keep that ball down and so that’s why the stakes are rising on
break that shell, we become conscious. both sides.
BR: It’s like the lie that’s in language when people say: My DI: Couldn’t agree more.
spirit, My soul, and I’m hungry. It’s like, wait a minute, this is the
wrong way around here. You know: I have a body and my body is KC: And what’s going to happen is... Look at the natural, I
hungry. My body is tired. And I am a soul and I am a spirit. mean, even the metaphor is perfect because what’s going to
happen ultimately, the water and the ball are going to win. OK?
That language, which is a product of The Mind in the first place, There’s no way that those forces... As much as they intensify,
because we don’t think how... We don’t talk how we think. We sometime, somewhere that ball is going to get to the surface, like
think how we talk. And language is one of the ways in which it or not, The Powers That Be.
we’re programmed.
DI: Yeah.
DI: A massive, massive way.
KC: Now, what’s going to be interesting is if they actually start
BR: As George Orwell pointed out in 1984. understanding on a deeper level than power and their power-over
because “I’ve got the clue” and “I’ve got the key”. That’s what
DI: Programming the computer. But what are words? They’re the Illuminati, you know, that’s what they think.
vibrational fields. So, again, even the words... The programmers
are actually coming in at a vibrational level, a waveform level, They think: If you don’t get it, then we can hold you down. You
and they’re only decoded into language when they pass though deserve to be held down. That’s actually their... I’m sure you
the brain construct. know this. This is their rationale.
BR: That’s true. So what happens when we, because we’re greater than our
bodies... the Consciousness that we are is greater than what they
DI: So everything gets in, that plays out-here, gets in at are because they’re on limitation, start to win in their own mind?
vibrational level. That’s why we need to get to that level of You see? And they start to let go.
ourselves and clear ourselves out because that’s where all the
patterns are put in. Because this is what’s probably happening. There have to be
many members that have been under the thumb of this game and
And I use this analogy in my talks, that, you know, a ball, its have joined and are being, you know, will be patted on the head
natural place in a tank of water is on the top, just floating away. and given all the reinforcement necessary to keep them in the
It’s a natural state. Free. Going like... game. What happens when they start to see the light, so to speak?
If you want to put the ball in an unnatural state in the tank, DI: And some of them, I’m sure, already are, because there’s
you’ve gotta put in on the bottom of the tank and you’ve gotta nothing more fiercely compartmentalized than this whole control
hold it there. You can’t put it there and it’ll stay there because it’s structure itself.
not its natural state. Its natural state is floating on the top. Our
natural state is being conscious. There’s so many people within the control structure, right down
into mainstream society, that are daily contributing to this
So what their manipulation has had to do is -- and this says gathering Fascist global state, who have no idea of the true
something about the true scale of who we are -- it has had to implications of it. Or, as they go up higher and higher, have been
bombard us with so many multi-level systems of control, mislead about the nature of themselves, reality, and the force
diversion, and manufactured ignorance, to symbolically hold the behind it.
ball on the bottom. And it hasn’t succeeded.
KC: So the nature of the chaos and the destruction will actually
KC: Actually, they’re mounting, these systems of control. That’s work in the favor of releasing the ball because what happens is,
what the move towards a Fascist state and a world government is during chaos you can change sides, you see. You can actually,
all about. you know... It’s really hard to maintain control during a time of
destruction.
I actually heard an interview with you in which you talked about
that fact. You see, the fact that we are - to use your analogy, DI: Yeah. I agree. What I would say is that the ball will get to
which is a very good one - we are Consciousness and as that ball the top of the water when the ball realizes that it is the water.
we are moving as a group towards the surface of the water. We’re [Kerry laughs]
actually getting out of their grasp.
And the scale of the movement and the speed of movement of
DI: Right. this conspiracy now as it puts in more and more surveillance,
more and more control, more and more centralization of power,
etcetera...I’ve been saying for years now that is not about even
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gathering more power. It is about defending the control that’s The final scene of the show, or the final part of the show, was all
already there. Because they understand. the men ran on the stage dressed as sailors, singing Rule
Britannia. You know, [sings] Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the
I mean, if I can go to a psychic in England in 1990 to be told waves, and all that stuff. You know, Britain has to rule
through this psychic that this vibrational change was coming, was everything.
going to create a spiritual revolution... I mean, are the Illuminati
families not going to know that this spiritual change, this Anyway, so as this song’s reaching its climax, all these sailors
vibrational alarm clock is coming? Of course they are and climb on each other’s backs and form a pyramid on the stage.
they’ve known about it for a long time. Right? And then Larry Grayson came on dressed as Britannia,
with the gown and the helmet and the sword, and was
And so, what we’re looking at is a... I mean, when you lose the manhandled up to the top of the pyramid of these men, you know,
power -- from “We’re in control and we’re going to get more the big finish with the sword.
power” to “We must impose more and more control to stop this
happening” -- they’re not in a, if you like, a pro-active situation And he said, one night things seemed to be going rather well, he
now as they push this Orwellian state on. said, until one of the sailors in the bottom left-hand corner got a
cough. Right? And the cough got worse and worse and worse
They’re in a defensive situation, trying to keep the lid on human until he couldn’t hold his place in the pyramid anymore. And he’s
ignorance as this vibrational change brings it to the surface. standing on the stage at the bottom of the pyramid, this guy. You
know. Ethel Jones and Charlie Smith.
BR: Yeah.
And in the end he couldn’t hold it anymore because the cough got
too bad, and he had to step out of the pyramid. What happened
DI: And, you know, compared with Consciousness, this was, Larry Grayson at the top, symbolic of this Illuminati, ended
Illuminati... I mean, they’re flies on an elephant’s back, you up in the second row [Bill laughs] because the whole pyramid
know, and they’re gonna get removed. collapsed because one little guy on the left-hand bottom corner
got a cough.
I think it’s not about winning the game, and it’s not about losing
the game. It’s about realizing the nature of the game, and the fact BR: Yes. Lovely.
that it’s not about winning and losing, it’s just about
experiencing.
DI: You know, pyramid power, in one way, is all roads from the
base of the pyramid lead up to the point of the pyramid, and
And as these pyramids of control, certainly the lower levels first, that’s how they control.
start getting picked off by this vibrational change, and people
start to see things differently, you know...
BR: The thing that I would like to connect up with here... It’s so
interesting what you’re saying and we passionately agree with
As I’ve been saying for 20 years, look at a pyramid. The your thesis here. And one of the things which I love about your
capstone’s the place of the power. No it’s not. The capstone’s up work is that it’s like, in order to control, rather, one good way to
there because the rest of the pyramid’s holding the bugger up control somebody is to lie to them. And therefore, if you’re being
there. The rest of the pyramid moves away, where’s the capstone lied to, and someone is trying to control you, these things are
gonna go? It’s gonna crash to the floor. There’s nothing holding intimately connected.
it up. We are holding up the structure that is our own control
system.
DI: Right.
I used to tell a story years ago. You’ll remember, Bill; Larry
Grayson, a comedian in the UK. Right? BR: And we are being convinced that this reality is all that there
is, that these are just animated hunks of meat that last three score
years and ten, and then that’s our lot. And then either we’re
BR: Yes. pushing up daisies or we go to heaven or go to hell, which is
another trap and another lie.
DI: I knew Larry towards the end of his life. He used to do big
shows on the BBC and I was invited to his memorial service at DI: Absolutely.
Covent Garden after he died.
BR: And meanwhile there’s some fascinating things going on
There’s another comedian in Britain called Roy Hudd, and he did behind the scenes. And, as you must have known from your own
this presentation about Larry’s life. He told this story, and I sat research and your own contacts and your own conversations that
there and I felt: Whoooo, that is so profound when applied to you’ve got a magical component to the controllers -- meant in the
what we’re talking about. real definition of the word magic -- black magic ceremonies,
rituals, sacrifices, all kinds of things that you and I don’t want to
Roy Hudd said that Larry Grayson had told him this story, that in know about. But actually this is part of the truth of the matter.
the days of music hall-type theater or the last vestiges of it, Larry This is what they do. They evoke djinns. They do strange things.
was in an all-male show going around Britain. And he was the
woman in it, because he used to dress up as a woman, Larry.
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DI: Yeah. I was getting an enormous amount of stuff about that KC: It’s really a key. And ETs -- negative, you know, service-to-
in the late ’90s. self ETs, basically -- that they’re working with, and certainly
becoming aware of the veil behind the veil.
BR: And it’s not pleasant to look at, and it’s real. And then
there’s another aspect to this, which is something that’s been Because you can talk about Consciousness and Mind as we have
coming at us quite a lot from Black Projects insiders, which is not here, but if you want to lay out, you know, if you want to
the black magic, but the black technology, which was well stated understand what’s really going on, you do have to talk about ETs
by Richard Hoagland, who told us that he’d had a phone call and you have to talk about interdimensional entities and also...
from an insider who said that “They would rather lose an
American city than give up their new physics”. DI: Sure.
And this new physics... We were told by somebody who we met KC: ...entities that don’t have physical bodies.
in Thailand in October; we’ve given him the pseudonym of Jake
Simpson. We know the guy very well. He said that the state of
black physics at the moment is... When I say black physics, it’s DI: Sure. That’s what I was saying earlier. We’ve got to do this
like secret physics, as in Black Operations. on all levels because it’s operating on all levels.
DI: Yeah. BR: The best presentation which I heard of the answer to one of
the most important questions -- and I can’t remember whether it
was yourself or Jordan Maxwell, or perhaps both, who said:
BR: Those guys are not all evil people, but they’re on the inside
and they’re playing these games with all the resources and all the
knowledge that is denied the public domain. How could humans do the things that they do to other humans on
this planet, as they seem to really be doing? How could we be
trashing this planet, our home, in the way that we are, at the
DI: Right. behest of the controllers? How could humans be doing this?
BR: [Black physics is] ten thousand years ahead of public sector And the answer is that actually they’re not human at the highest
physics, they say, accelerating away from public sector level. Is this something that you said, or was that Jordan
knowledge at the rate of 1000 years a year. I checked those Maxwell?
figures with him. That’s a lot of zeroes. Ten thousand years
ahead! And he told us, for instance, that the technology exists to
phase-shift soldiers, Special Forces soldiers, so that they can DI: That’s the thing that I’ve been talking about for a while
walk through walls. because, you know, this reality... We keeping talking about
different levels. This reality obviously operates on different
levels. You’ve got the wave vibrational level. You’ve got the
DI: I’ve heard that, a few years ago. electromagnetic level. You’ve got the visible light level. And
you’ve got the digital level.
BR: You’ve heard that?
And when you talk about the level of advancement and potential
DI: Yeah. that you mentioned earlier, it is a cinch to... if you look at where
the development of Artificial Intelligence is moving now within
BR: That’s... Yeah. It’s an interesting corroboration. These little this Stone Age level of awareness, imagine what is possible at the
stories pop up here and there in different researchers. cutting edge of the secret projects, and even beyond that, in the
realms of the non-human levels of this.
DI: I think the thing is, Bill, that the reason for the fast
acceleration is there’s a critical point where you understand They have, without question, the ability to create Artificial
reality, and from that point the potential just absolutely soars. Intelligence that looks to our... in the decoded world, because I’m
Whereas, because of the suppression of science in the public decoding you now. What you are is a vibrational field.
arena, they’re nowhere near, yet, that line where the potential
soars. So if you can create a vibrational field with Artificial Intelligence
that is vibrating externally in the same form, range, that a human
So in the secret projects they’ve crossed that line and therefore body is, this... Basically it’s a biological computer human body,
they’re accelerating away, at the rate you talk about, from but what’s animating it is different to what animates ours. Then
mainstream scientific understanding. I’m going to decode you or I’m going to decode this Artificial
Intelligence, just like the lady in the red dress in The Matrix
movie.
BR: That’s exactly right.
KC: Exactly.
KC: And there’s other dimensional intelligences who have
gotten to that point.
DI: And she’s going to look just like you and me. I remember
being in that ayahuasca state in 2003 and that female voice said
DI: Absolutely right. to me: If you programmed a computer to abuse a child, would the
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computer have any emotional consequence for that, any DI: And people who’ve watched The Matrix will remember the
emotional reaction? None. It would just do what it’s programmed scene because the Agent, Agent Smith, is in freeze-frame in this
to do. thing, with a gun. And the Morpheus character says to Neo:
People have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air.
And one of the most blatant things about these Illuminati But their strength and their speed is still based on a world based
bloodlines is they have no empathy. They have no ability to on rules. And because of that, they can never be as fast or as
empathize with the consequences for others of their actions. strong as you can be.
That’s why there are no limits. You know, pepper-bombing
Baghdad. To us, horrific. Terrific emotional consequence. To BR: Right.
them, nothing. Just like a computer.
DI: Because within this virtual reality, there are rules to the
And they are like computers. And to a large extent, that’s why game. Some of them are called laws of physics and such like.
some of them are so bright, you know. My computer on my desk Consciousness overcomes those laws, does not recognize them, is
can work things out quicker than I can in some areas, where it’s not entrapped by them. So as we become conscious, we move
just, you know, working out to a program. It has no wisdom. It beyond the box that the controlling force is actually in.
has no empathy. It has no heart or Consciousness, but on a mental
level it can work very quickly. During my talks I put two boxes. One’s got, symbolically, a
reptilian on it. On a smaller one it’s got humans on it. What
And these people are very sharp mentally. There’s no doubt they’ve done, and the whole foundation of how it’s been
about it. Some of these people are very sharp mentally. But they possible... Because they’re in a box. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be
have no heart, no balancing qualities of Consciousness. doing what they’re doing.
I’m convinced they’re Artificial Intelligence. When I look at KC: Absolutely.

someone like Kissinger, I mean, I see an Artificial Intelligence
that has been created by a very, very advanced knowledge and it DI: And if they’re Artificial Intelligence, they’re obviously in a
looks just like you and me because that’s the way we decode it, box with a lid on that doesn’t open. But they manage to control
you know. human society by putting humans in a smaller box than they’re
in.
And you know, again, Bill, when you were talking about their
rituals and what have you, what are the rituals doing? It’s all Again we come back. Symbolic of the box, they’re holding the
about creating a vibrational field. They’re creating an energetic ball on the bottom of the tank. As we become conscious, we go
environment that allows these interdimensional entities to move beyond their potential, and that’s what they’re terrified of.
into this dimension, at least briefly. And what they’re also doing
is accessing through these rituals the vibrational level of reality,
which is the prime level of reality, which we decode into this. BR: Let me tell the story about Bill Birnes and Admiral George
Hoover. I don’t know if you’ve heard this one, but we’d love to
tell this one on camera.
So, what they’re doing on one level with these rituals -- which
they often do at vortex points, which are very powerful in
affecting the vibrational state of the planet. The communication DI: OK.
lines, like meridian lines that we have in the body, the planet has.
BR: Bill Birnes, Los Angeles-based editor of UFO Magazine,
If they do a ritual where a lot of these lines meet, then the talked to Admiral George Hoover from the Office of Naval
vibrational effect of that ritual is going out down these lines and Intelligence before he died, when he was an elderly man. He had
they’re affecting us because we’re being affected by that one of these turn-around experiences when he was very old, and
vibrational level, that prime level. So I’ve no doubt at all they’ve he started to talk to Bill Birnes about what was really going on.
got technology, too, that is creating disharmony within the
vibrational level of this reality, which then will create Bill Birnes wanted to know about things like the Roswell crash,
disharmony here, you know? all of this stuff. And one of the things that George Hoover told
Bill Birnes was that the Roswell crash, the Visitors there, they
And the thing is though... I remember that scene in The Matrix - were time travelers. They were us from the future, time-traveling
because people read things in different ways. I read Neo’s future humans, which we‘ve heard from other sources as well.
journey as becoming conscious. I think that’s probably what they
meant, but that’s the way I read it, very powerfully. The most important thing, though, the biggest secret, was how
powerful we are, the Consciousness we have, the ability that we
There was a point where he’s in a simulation with the Morpheus have. And Bill Birnes’ words from George Hoover were: Our
character, and Morpheus is explaining about the Agents. Now, ability to manipulate the Consciousness around us. And if we
for Agents read people that you’re talking about that have the started to do that, as far as the controllers were concerned, we
ability to do incredible things within this reality ’cause they would create havoc.
understand how it works and they keep it from the people.
And this is what must not be known. It must not be known how
BR: Right. powerful we are. Because the time-traveling future humans used
their Consciousness in order to bridge these dimensions.
510
What these disks are, according to Hoover, and also according to clear about what I’m talking about now, what I see clearly is the
Philip Corso, who wrote The Day after Roswell, is that they are planet with a cell / prison around it, and a big lock, and a key
sort of like amplifiers and focusing devices of Consciousness, going in.
and the pilots are an integral part of the machine.
And I’ll tell you a funny story. Well, not a funny story. I’ll tell
And as any quantum physicist will tell you, it’s Consciousness you a story. I was feeling so strongly about this about two weeks
that actually has the ability to determine whether Schrödinger’s ago, and immediately after, I went on the internet and I’m going
cat is alive or dead, to determine probabilistic quantum outcomes, through, I’m looking for a picture for my talk. And in front of me
to actually influence reality. You can’t do quantum physics was a planet in a prison cell, with a big lock on it, which said
without taking account of Consciousness. Master on it, and a key.
Therefore this means if you have a very high control, an ability in That x-factor, that master key, it’s coming. It’s coming. And it’s
that realm, it sort of bridges Mind and Consciousness. Then, just not going to come like cavalry to save everything, but it is a big
as great adepts are said to be able to do, you can bi-locate. So, factor in... I’m absolutely convinced that the end of this prison
OK. So we’ll do it all together. We’ll do it in a craft. It’ll help us. society is a done deal. I think the outcome is going to happen. I
It’ll amplify us. think it’s meant to happen.
And this is what the crafts are. And this is why they were baffled We’re now seeing, and it will go on for a while, but we’re now
when they opened up these things. They couldn’t find an engine. seeing the last throes of a dying system where the Illuminati in
their box are believing they’re crashing the system to create
DI: That female voice in the ayahuasca experiences said to me: something else, when it’s actually crashing, ultimately, for
Why do you fly in a plane when you’re only flying through another reason.
yourself?
BR: Is there a real danger? Because you’ve got a cornered tiger
BR: [laughs] Exactly. that is at its most dangerous when it’s cornered. Is that possible?
DI: And what came to mind when you were talking there, Bill, DI: Oh, these people in their panic are going to thrash out in all
was the carry-on of that scene in The Matrix with Agent Smith, bloody directions. But, you know, that’s just part of this
where he’s saying: He’ll never be as strong and fast as you can transition from where we are to where we’re going.
be.
And the thing is, you know, you can look at the news and you can
And then the Neo character says: Do you mean I’ll be able to see the conspiracy moving on. In Britain it’s just getting
dodge bullets? ridiculous.
No, Neo. When you’re ready, you won’t have to. But what you don’t see on the news, and therefore it’s not in your
awareness, is how fast the awakening from the amnesic sleep is
moving on. And it’s moving on dramatically quickly.
Controlling your experience, you know. You don’t have to dodge
bullets. You’re going to make sure no-one ever shoots at you.
I’m not saying that tomorrow the sun’s gonna come up and
everything’s gonna be fine, you know. We’re deeply into a
BR: You aren’t in a position where you have to dodge bullets. transitional period here and there’s going to be a lot of
challenges, and this thing’s going to move on further. But the
DI: Yeah. And you know, people have said to me so many times outcome, I think, is a done deal. This is going down, and then we
over the years, right from the early days: Why aren’t you dead? can start to create a new society based on Consciousness values
And it may sound... you know... I can only say what I know deep rather than the limitations of Mind.
inside: They can’t. They can’t. They can’t. They can’t. They
can’t. And I would just say this, because I think this is important. From
my point of view it’s important. I think, you know, there’s a great
If we were coming to do something, and all it took was someone danger that this 2012 thing is going to be a massive, massive
to shoot a bullet and it’s all over, what’s the point? They can’t. diversion.
What I would say very strongly, and it’s coming more and more BR: It’s a spiritual Y2K.
into my life, there is an x-factor which I don’t understand yet but
I sure as hell know it’s there. And it’s an x-factor which is going DI: [laughs] That’s what I call it, actually, a spiritual Y2K,
to bring an end to this childish playground nonsense of human myself. And me, of all people, who saw a psychic in 1990 and
control. was told a vibrational change was coming. I, of all people, should
be saying: Yeah, look! 2012. That’s it. It’s more evidence of
BR: Do you mean an external influence? vibrational change, the transformation! I cannot sync with that at
all.
DI: There’s something. Something. I absolutely, at a deep level,
I know it. And whenever I think about it, whenever I’ve been
511
What’s slightly concerning is the number of emails I get, and DI: That’s why becoming conscious is the bottom line of
other people I know, their websites get, of people saying: What’s everything. If we don’t become conscious and move into these
the point of doing anything ’cause it’s all gonna change in 2012? realms of understanding this sort of stuff you’re talking about --
that we’re all one Consciousness experiencing itself subjectively;
BR: Automatically. life is only a dream; matter is just energy condensed to a slower
vibration, as Bill Hicks used to say --unless we come from this
perspective, then...
DI: That’s like Obama selling hope, which is always the horse in
front on the carousel. No matter how fast you go around, you
never get closer to the horse in front. That’s what hope does. What’s the key thing of any dictatorship? It’s divide and rule.
What hope is, especially in the way Obama uses it, and what And so, the whole basis of what they’re doing is taking
2012 has the deep potential of becoming, is a holding-position, Consciousness, Consciousness, Consciousness, Consciousness,
where people who could be doing something now just wait and dividing it in upon itself.
around. Again, what is 2012 symbolically? It’s the cavalry
coming. You know, what we’re seeing here is, basically, Consciousness
so manipulated that it’s at war with itself because it’s come to
BR: Exactly. so... it’s been brought to such a low level of awareness compared
with its potential.
DI: Hey! Hey! The cavalry’s here! It’s not coming. It’s here.
And so the spiritual and the streetwise, the five-cents conspiracy
and the understanding of the nature of reality, they’ve got to go
KC: Right. together. And you know, for too long they’ve been apart.
DI: The cavalry needs to get on its horse, incidentally, and stop People say: Oh spiritual. That’s New Age. Oh yeah, that’s
waiting for another one to come. credible. Spiritual? That’s New Age. Is that credible? And all
that stuff. They have to come together because as one unit they’re
KC: Exactly. I mean it’s like Neo in the place where he’s at, unstoppable. Apart, again, divide and rule; they have a fraction of
where he realizes that he has the ability to become All-That-Is, their potential power for change. If people come from the heart,
and therefore bullets pass through him because he’s no longer they’ll know what to do.
There-there.
BR: Exactly.
DI: Right.
DI: If people come from their head, it will tell them a long list of
KC: He’s actually everywhere. I mean, I know it’s words, but in things why there’s nothing they can do or why there’s no point in
a sense that is the key that we all hold. And what’s happening in doing them.
a sense is, with the wave, there’s actually a facilitation that’s
happening. We’re at a fork in the road, you know, symbolically, because it’s
a balance of the two that we’re looking for, ideally, here. But
We’ve been told by various people, but one in particular, Jake symbolically it’s a choice between the head and the heart. It’s a
Simpson, who has been on the inside, talks about regardless of head-domination or a heart-domination of our sense of reality.
how you view the future, this wave of energy is actually coming
towards our planet, or you could view it as our planet, solar If we take the heart route, then this world will transform from a
system, is moving into this energy. It is coming. manifestation of Mind to a manifestation of Consciousness. It has
to because this is just a projection. This [out-there] has to follow
So it’s like if you’re surfing and you know a wave is coming, what goes on here [in-here].
there’s whole groups of people on the planet getting ready to ride
the wave. And so in a sense they have to have the key in order to If we take the choice of Mind, then we’re going to live in a global
ride the wave. In a sense you could say the surfboard, the version of Nazi Germany. My strong feeling is, although we’re
Consciousness, the key to understanding who they are and what going to go closer to a global version of Nazi Germany,
Consciousness really is and how they are united, which is part of ultimately the whole thing will collapse because the awakening
the key. will cease to hold it together.
DI: Yeah. BR: If you were a betting man, what would you say the
timescale of events, the rollout, will be over the next one, two,
KC: Because we are united. You see, if we know that we are three, five, ten years? If you were a historian, what do you think
everywhere, and we’re totally linked up... See, I’m in this body you’d be writing about?
right now, you’re in that body right now, and between us it looks
like there’s empty space. But in reality this is Consciousness, this DI: I’d say - and I’m probably being optimistic - I’d say we
space is incorporated, so there is actually no break between you would live in a global version of Nazi Germany within ten years
and I and Bill here. We’re all in this sea of Consciousness. if we take that route [the head]. If we take that route [the heart],
we’ll in ten years’ time be deeply into a transition to a very
BR: We’re three tips of the same iceberg. different world. It’s just a choice.
512
But this x-factor is going to help us to change the world to one DI: Cheers.
that I would like to live in. I don’t know what the x-factor is, but
I know it’s coming. It’ll be fine. KC: Looking forward to the future.
BR: Wonderful. DI: Yeah.
KC: Well thank you, David. BR: That’s a good wrap.
DI: Thanks, Kerry. KC: And the future is now.
KC: Fabulous. BR: And the future is now.
DI: It’s been a pleasure. Thanks, Bill. DI: And always was.
BR: Thank you so much.
513
Project Camelot:
A Tribute To - Dr. Eugene Mallove
Dr Brian O'Leary
Vilcabamba, Ecuador 2008
Galileo, who refused to look through Galileo’s

telescope at the Moon or at Jupiter because
they “knew” that nothing new could be seen.
Yes, many modern scientists are filled with
catastrophic hubris; they have in many ways
become mere “technicians of science,” and
guardians to what amounts to a pernicious “Holy
Writ.” Don’t bother me with the experimental
evidence, my theory can tell me what is possible
and what is not!”
--- Eugene Mallove, www.infinite-energy.com,
2004
“For the first time, experimental evidence was
presented that shows conclusively that excess
heat can be reproduced on demand... on May
22, 2008, Professor Yoshaki Arata at Osaka
University (presented) experiments in which the
ratio of output to input heat has exceeded
Dr. Eugene Mallove died on May 14, 2004, aged 56. He was 2500%...
found at the end of his driveway, beaten to death during an --- Scott Chubb, Infinite Energy, September-
alleged robbery, having received several blunt-force injuries to October, 2008
his head and neck. An autopsy ruled his death as murder.
More than any other source of breakthrough energy suppression,
Gene Mallove was an alternative energy expert who was working some of our most powerful scientists lead the way. The world
on viable energy alternative programs. Well respected for his looks up to these high priests of our culture for their yea-or-nay
knowledge of cold fusion, he had just published an "open letter" pronouncements of whether or not any innovative energy is
outlining the results of and reasons for his last 15 years in the possible. Their answer is almost always “no” without their even
field of "new energy research." At the time of his death Dr. giving it a look. We are caught in the conundrum of credibility.
Mallove was convinced it was only a matter of months before the Only a few of us with a scientific background have broken free of
world would actually see a free energy device. this kind of censorship, and can recognize the great promise of
new energy research.
The following was written by Dr Brian O'Leary, presented as a
chapter in his most recent book The Energy Solution Nobody knew and expressed this potential better than Dr. Eugene
Revolution. Gene Mallove was a very close friend of Brian Mallove -- scientist, journalist, educator, visionary, humanitarian,
O'Leary and we are most grateful to Brian for his kind permission friend. On May 14, 2004, he was murdered during an apparent
for this reprint of his work. robbery in the home of his parents. He had been in the prime of
his career at age 56.
Chapter 3. Eugene Mallove versus the Stuckness of Scientists
This is a great loss, which is just beginning to sink in. So prolific
were his writings, so passionate was his expression, so unique
"No problem can be solved from the same were his connections between the scientific community and the
consciousness that created it." solution energy vision, he will be sorely missed. He is one of my
--- Albert Einstein heroes. It will be difficult for anyone to fill his shoes.
“I have had fifty years of experience in nuclear
physics and I know what’s possible and what’s As chief science writer for MIT in 1989, Mallove first got into
not... I will not look at any more [cold fusion] the new energy game by investigating the controversial discovery
evidence! It’s all junk!” of cold fusion by University of Utah chemists Drs. Martin
Fleischmann and Stanley Pons. As we saw in Chapter 1, his
--- Herman Feshbach, MIT professor, 1991 investigative reports on the attempts of MIT nuclear physicists
“I hope you recognize that the late Professor with a vested interest in hot fusion research (consuming tens of
Feshbach’s most unfortunate and ill-considered billions of federal dollars) revealed that they fraudulently
reaction was fundamentally unscientific. It reported their inability to replicate the original Pons-Fleischmann
reminds me of the Church leaders at the time of experiments. Their "unadjusted" findings actually reinforce the
514
truth of the discovery. The efforts of these scientists and other unmatched in our quest to give this research a chance. He has
establishment researchers at major universities to discredit cold been the standard-setter of our work, providing a foundation for
fusion, under the auspices of the U.S. Department of Energy, will understanding the scientific principles and nomenclature for the
be remembered as a sad lesson in scientific ethics. most promising concepts and categories.
Risking everything, Gene Mallove resigned his position at MIT His grasp of historical analogues such as the development of
to reveal the truth about cold fusion regardless of ridicule and aviation, relativity, quantum physics, the Copernican revolution
financial insecurity. He wrote the book Fire From Ice, which and the Enlightenment, as reported in Infinite Energy, are
was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. The facts revealed in that inspiring and prolific. His writings provide a deep and insightful
work led the great writer Arthur C. Clarke to conclude that the understanding of the historical patterns of scientific progress and
suppression of cold fusion was "one of the greatest scandals in censorship that we now face in new energy research. I humbly
the history of science." defer to Mallove’s writings and to the brilliant classic book by
Thomas Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, about how
Mallove had been at it for fifteen productive years, before he was mainstream scientists in any culture can be blind to new
senselessly cut down, what a loss! His authoritative books, his paradigms of discovery.
numerous editorials and writings in the successful magazine
Infinite Energy, his support of the work through the offices of his When it comes to changing worldviews, the scientists, alongside
New Energy Foundation and New Energy Research Laboratory, vested government, industry, media and intellectual discourse can
his many media appearances, and the excellent video/DVD "Fire become the guardians to the gates of outmoded thinking. More
from Water" underline the boldness with which he struck out on than anyone, Mallove gives this cultural aberration, applied to
his mission, fearless about threats to his career which otherwise new energy breakthroughs, fresh insight that will endure for a
would have been secure. He stood alone in organizing and very long time, particularly as the developments much too slowly
supporting the cold fusion scientists, which has grown into a unfold—sometimes in direct contradiction even to the thinking of
community of several hundred researchers, many of whom came progressives and environmentalists, who are imprisoned in
from prestigious institutions, meeting annually and publishing in scarcity consciousness.
the best peer-reviewed scientific journals. Against all odds, cold
fusion has become a viable science with great potential because The tragedy of Eugene Mallove all the more inspires us to
of the tireless and selfless efforts of this one man. He was a giant. advance our mutual cause. We must get the word out as quickly
and widely as possible. Most of us in the field believe that this
To underline my remarks, just visit the web site www.infinite- murder was an assassination: he was one of many of those
energy.com. In my 2003 book Re-Inheriting the Earth, pioneers who could make the greatest difference. This mandates
published before his death, the index shows more pages of that, through strength in quality and numbers, the teams now
citation to Mallove's work (nine) than that of any other forming will ensure that the work will carry on regardless of the
individual. He was very grounded and did not venture into personal fates of pioneers such as Gene. A full investigation of
consciousness science as I had done. This made him all the more the murder, still pending, will hopefully shed light on its true
credible. He never succumbed to the pseudo-scientific claims of motive.
new age pundits and acted as a responsible scientist throughout.
He didn't play favorites but looked at all viable alternatives with Novelist Mignon McCarthy said, "Each society honors its live
intellectual honesty, yet still from a Western scientific point of conformists and dead troublemakers." I believe that the world
view. will remember Dr. Mallove as one of the greatest scientific
pioneers of history, a Galileo of our time.
His standards were always very high. He did not buy into fads
and politics. His rigor could be very disarming to those toeing the In later chapters, we’ll look more deeply into how to overcome
line of the establishment and was an inspiration to all fellow the stubbornness of those who call themselves “scientists” who
heretics. I not only stand in awe of his achievements, I miss the refuse to look at new phenomena that appear to violate their own
opportunity to team with him and others to raise the credibility of precepts of reality. The scientists, as we shall see, can be allies or
new energy research and development. adversaries in our quest. For example, the climate scientists and
leading environmentalists have helped us create a challenging
He had also proposed to the Democratic presidential candidates new mandate to keep carbon in the ground. This is good. But
in 2004 the establishment of an Office for Unconventional most physicists still resist the notion of free energy, even though
Energy within the Department of Energy (DOE). During a the evidence is overwhelming. They too are of the no-free-lunch
candidates' panel he orally presented the idea and three of the school. We shall have to bring more and more scientists,
candidates endorsed it. We can largely thank Gene that the DOE environmentalists and progressives on-board.
began reviewing the cold fusion concept, something that would
have been unthinkable during the past fifteen years. Dr Brian O'Leary
Vilcabamba, Ecuador
His “Universal Appeal for New Energy” is posted on Google 2008
and on many websites. Please read it. Its articulate expression is
515
READER NOTES:
516
READER NOTES:
517

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Our Future, The End of the World, UFO’s,

Aliens, Free Energy, 2012, The NWO, NASA,

It’s A Dangerous Path ……Remember ….You Were Warned!

PRINTED FOR RESEARCH USE ONLY

The Truth Will Out

Not For Sale

Some supporting articles& pictures have been added

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy

Founded: May 2006

This printing typeset by Fred Woods

The Project Camelot Interviews

3) Project Avalon and its mission.

Ann Eller – Phone Interview December 2006 (released in September 2008) 24

Bill Holden & Jim Sparks – April 2008 29

John Lear Tells All – April 2008 37

Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” – Futuretalk III

George Green – Phone Interview of September 2, 2008 93

US War-Mongering In Georgia A Negotiation Tactic As US Bankruptcy Looms

Benjamin Fulford – Phone Interview from Tokyo September 6, 2008 101

David Wilcock – Phone Interview September 9, 2008 107

Miriam Delicado – “Alien Blue Star” August 2009 128

Robert O. Dean – Coming of Nibiru - September 2008 143

Dr Bill Deagle 24 September 2008 204

Dr. Bill Deagle - Telephone Transcript 4 October 2008 223

Rebecca Jernigan -Telephone Transcripts 4 October 2008 232

George Green - Telephone Interview Transcript, 21 October 2008 235

Jim Humble – Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) 244

Stephen Bassett - Interview Transcript 13 November 2008 254

Interview With “James”: The Sovereign Integral 264

“Jake Simpson” - The Biggest Secret 286

“Recardo Silva” – Illuminati Activities & High Strangeness 290

Absolutely Bizarre 'Creature' In Benjamin Fulford's Spine 309

Benjamin Fulford Phone Interview January 26 2009 310

Benjamin Fulford's 'Creature' (?) 312

Marcia Schafer - Ground Crew 101 315

Jessica, Crystal Child Interview Transcript 328

Dr. Brian O'Leary - January 2009 Ecuador Conference Introduction 338

George Green - January 2009 Ecuador Conference 363

Camelot Live at Vilcabamba - January 2009 Ecuador Conference 394

Robert O. Dean - Candid Informal Conversation 25 Feburary 2009 422

“Elizabeth Nelson” - What Really Happened To Flight 93 478

Whistleblower Testimony - An Electrical Engineer On 2012-2013 – April 6 487

David Icke – Conversation With 491

A Tribute To - Dr. Eugene Mallove (Murdered Free energy pioneer) 514

A NOTE ABOUT WHISTLEBLOWERS AND RESEARCHERS

Overview And Mission Statement:

In Tribute And Memory:

Dr. John Badwey Harry Hoxsey Dr. Wilhelm Reich

These people died for their cause. Who will be next?

And we claim very little credit for anything that’s happened. It

This is reminiscent of the Serpo Project. (Serpo.org is the website

I think you’ll enjoy this interview and we’re really pleased to be

JS: The original?

BH: Okay? For instance, like it went from... In radio

JS: Did he feel the G-forces or not?

BH: Uh... No! No. He said there was no G-force.

JS: Sure! JS: I was going to say, what part?

BH: ... I’m gone. JS: Yeah! Right!

JS: And now you’re at point ‘B’. BH: I’m gone!

JS: Wow! Wow. BH: Yes.

JS: You’re extremely... I take it you’re extremely science...

KC: So you have a lot of parallels. BH: Exactly.

John Lear: Absolutely would be probably what they’re going to

...They’re going to put a hologram and say, oh, we’re being