Vector Shift Protection (ANSI 78) relay Settings for

Generator parallel operation with Grid.

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03-01-2011 03:01 AM
I am working in a Generation project that we operate 415V, 3 phase, 4W, 50Hz, 1500RPM,
2MW natural gas Generator set connected to 22kV grid through a 415 V/22kV, dYN11, Step
up Transformer.

Generator set control system is designed to operate the set parallel with the grid and we have
installed Woodward LS4 relay at Mains 22kV CB , for resync, and to provide ROCOF
(ANSI81R), and Vector shift protection(ANSI78).

We followed the guide lines of UK G59 codes and we set the vector sift setting to 6 Deg. But we
are experiencing frequent vector shift relay activations, and hard shutdowns of the generator set
, because our grid supply is mainly based on hydro power system, and has very low stiffness.

Due to the reclosers operations that is connected to the near by 22kV feeders we are
experiencing switching surges and hence, triggers our vector shift relay.
I have noticed in Embedded generation text books that indicates we should increase this VS.
setting to 8-12 deg as our grid system is weak.

I need to know that if we increase this setting " Is this bad for the Generator? What are the
other options we have to protect the generator?
I think pole slip protection 78PS, is similar to vector shift and we should incorporate pole slip
protection and increase vector shift value to 12 deg.

Have you come across this kind of a situation and I understand large number of embedded
generation applications in UK, and they follow G59 code.

Can some you please indicate your comments in this regard.

Sumudu Alwis
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alba
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Re: Vector Shift Protection (ANSI 78) relay Settings for

Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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03-02-2011 06:12 AM
6 Deg is too low. 8 Deg is ok we are operating 11 KV Grid with 8 Deg Setting.If your Grid is
Poor The setting can go Up to 10 Deg.
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Srivatsa
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Re: Vector Shift Protection (ANSI 78) relay Settings for

Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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03-07-2011 08:22 PM
Hi,
A setting of 6 Deg will work only when you have 132 KV and above Grid connected... 11 kV &
22 kV grid is usually set between 8 to 10 Deg (depending on the stability) and 33 kV is max 8
Deg. The most important protection for grid parallel operation is a field failure protection. If you
have a CDVR enable the loss of field protection and connect the CDVR fault contact to trip the
generator.

Hope this will help..

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ISattar
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Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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07-27-2011 10:29 AM
Dear Mr.Srivatsa,
Request please elaborate what CDVR standas for?

The scheme mentioned by you is suitable for both Gas gen sets and D.G. Sets.
What are the recommended values for ROCOF in a 132 kV system?
Thanks and Best Regards
Iqbal Sattar
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Srivatsa
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Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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07-27-2011 10:45 PM
Hi Iqbal,
The CDVR is Caterpillar Digital Voltage Regulator.. You can take it to be any Digital Voltage
Regulator with Loss of Excitation protection.
The Vector shift is an electrical characteristic and is the same for any type of fuel or prime
mover. It will depend on the machine size and electrical withstand capability of the machine in
terms of asynchronous operation..
The ROCOF is a mechanical function and will not depend on grid voltage.. Usually the
guidelines used is the acceleration rate of the machine set .. As an example if you set the
acceleration time as 50 RPM/sec then the corresponding ROFC threshold is 1.6 Hz/sec for a 4
pole machine.. The ROFC should be set above this point..
Hope this will be of help to you..
Please feel free to ask for any more clarifications if needed...
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ISattar
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07-28-2011 09:26 AM
Thanks Srivatsa,
Is there any guiding values on vector shift angle setting on relays?
Regards
Iqbal
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Srivatsa
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Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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07-28-2011 09:03 PM
Dear Mr. Iqbal Sattar,
You are welcome..
Yes there are many articles giving recommendations for vector shift angle protection.. Many are
complex . The one extract I found easy and simple to follow and usually works in most of the
systems is from a book on Distributed generation. The relevant page is attached for your
reference.. It depends on how stable the grid is.. From my experience between 8 to 10 Deg
works well in most systems..
Hope you will find this useful..
Please feel free to contact if you need any further assistance..
Regards
Attachments:
Vector shift angle recos.pdf 39 KB
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Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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07-29-2011 09:33 AM
Thanks Srivatsa,
Appreciate your cooperation.

Iqbal

Pacific Engineering
Karachi , Pakistan
www.pacificpk.com

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rizwanfahad
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Re: Vector Shift Protection (ANSI 78) relay Settings for

Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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09-09-2011 07:28 AM - edited 09-09-2011 07:29 AM

dear Sir,

hope you are in good health.

we want a suggestion from you that one of our friend is operating 5MW parallel with 11Kv grid
since 3years and they have only a vector shift protection and no rocof protection is there. As he
says that only one protection is required either a rocof or a vector shif. now you tell us that
whether it is necessary to put both the protection or only one protection is enough to
synchronize with Grid.

B.R,

RIZWAN.
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Srivatsa
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Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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09-11-2011 11:53 PM
Dear Mr Rizwan,
The ROCF protection is basically the grid failure relay.. This is needed definitely in small power
plants connected to the grid. Once the utility fails the genset will try to take the entire load and
will pull the frequency down very rapid as the load will me much more than the capacity of the
generators. During this situation there will not be any vector shift and hence the set will collapse.
This can cause damage to the engine so we need ROCF protection.
The vector shift is basically to protect against auto reclose function of the grid. When the auto
reclose is activated then immediately on trip the grid will reclose instantaneously. This an
happen out of synchronization also so we need the vector shift protection for protecting your
generator. Also when there is heavy fault on the grid there will be a condition when the
generator can be pulled out of synchronization. In this condition also the vector shift can occur.
Basically the ROCF is for protecting heavy loading of the engine and Vector Shift is to protect
Generator from the auto reclose function or heavy faults on the grid which can pull the genset
out of synchronization.
Hope this will be of help..
Best Regards

Re: Vector Shift Protection (ANSI 78) relay Settings for

Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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03-24-2013 09:10 PM
Dear Srivatsa,
I'm a green hand in generator control field. I get in trouble in designing. if i want to shutdown
the generator by using external input to trip the CDVR, the CDVR supports it or not?
By the way, can i connect external normal closed contact to the CDVR shutdown/fault driver?
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Lukmas
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Re: Vector Shift Protection (ANSI 78) relay Settings for

Generator parallel operation with Grid.
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04-16-2013 06:09 AM
Hello Srivatsa,

Thanks for the info you provided here. Its really helpful.

Its generaly said the vector shift setting could be between the range of 6 - 12 deg depending on
the grid type( stiff or weak). Is there a known method to determine the relay settings depending
on the grid type?
I will really appricate your thought on this.

Regards.