Strepsiades, a poor farmer, married a rich woman, and son Pheidippides is a horse racer who

spends hella money on horses.

**at start of play Strip wakes up with hella debt
War of decadence
Clouds:
new vs old styles of education
better vs worse argument
parabasis
Aristophanes is using Socrates to make fun of sophistry (hes a representation of
the old form of education)
Summary
Strepsiades-->married wealthy woman
son Pheidippides is a chariot racer
Has a huge debt, so wants son to attend the Thinkery to find a
way out of it
Strepsiades decides to go there himself when his son refuses.
Meets Socrates-basket
Clouds are gods imitating men
Parabasis Aristophanes is head cloud and blames
spectators/Athenians for the failure of his play
Socrates gives Strepsiades situational problems, who answers
scientifically
Pheidippides goes to the thinkery
Just vs Unjust
traditional vs new forms of education
Unjust education wins, angers Strepsiades, burns
down Thinkery
Apology (Xenophon)
rests on Xenophons status/reputation
Apology (Plato)
philosophical argument
Defensive argument
Gorgias

Gorgias oratory; conviction persuasion vs knowledge

defining oratory as the ability to persuade through rhetoric (over
someone who has actual expertise on the subject)
confuses oratory with philosophy, when its actually sophistry
(because it does not consider what is actual good)
Polus knack/craft, oratory, useless
Argues with Socrates about what oratory is its a knack, a
flattery
its an image part of politics
Callicles sophistry dominate (nature), pleasure vs actual good

In nature, the people that are more dominant win and are good
(because it brings them pleasure)
But Socrates says pleasure and good are not the same thing
(thirsty/coward/itchy examples)
discussion vs speech
the crafts bs knacks
Body

Medicine

gymnastics

pastry

cosmetics

Soul

legislation

Justice

rhetoric

sophistry

Symposium

Eros, desire, love ladder

Apollodorus -- disciple of Socrates
Socrates
Agathon
Phaedrus
Eryximachus -- Society doctor
Pausanias -- Agathons ex-lover
Alcibiades -- best looking in Athens
Aristodemos -- enters uninvited

1. Phaedrus -- aristocrat, teaches shame, army would die because dont want to
show cowardness. Most capable in showing love/kinds
2. Pausanias-- Agathons ex-lover, 2 kinds of Aphrodite (common and heavenly)
a. Common: common love bad because attraction directed to bodies
not mind
b. Heavenly: directed towards males, good with partner
3. Eryximachus: medical training bodily gratification. Love is order and
produces good actions
4. Aristophanes: 3 genders, males from sun, females from earth, Androgynous
from the moon (split and then looking to reunite with their other half) Love is the name
we give to our desire to become whole again
5. Agathon: Feels they should speak more about the God of Love itself. Eros is the
youngest of the Gods, and most beautiful. Love is just because he does not use force
6. Socrates: Love is something we want but dont have. Usually the thing that you
love, is something you dont have.
7. Diotema (Ladder of Love):
a. from one to two Sexual procreation
b. from two to all beautiful bodies -->pederasty (man and a boy)

Essay Question
Prompt:

1. Failure of Gorgianic education Proxenus

a. Superficial, materialistic (more focus on power, money and
praise)
b. gratification
c. crafts vs knacks ties into justice and sophistry (that
they are not the same thing and that one does not necessarily
bring about the other)
d. Idea that gorgianic education teaches you power of speech
and persuasion, but does not help gain any knowledge
e. no experience or mental depth (moral virtue)
f. thinks he knows what he doesnt know Platos
Apology
i. knows about rhetoric, thinks he knows about
others
ii. knows the limit to ones knowledge
g. sophistry inherently unable to bring about justice
2. Socratic education is superior
a. Ability to acknowledge the good and just
b. Socrates claims that oratory is not a skill, but a knack (a
flattery)
c. justice and sophistry are two different things (mutually
exclusive)
d. therefore Socrates's form of education is superior

having expertise in one thing gives you expertise in all things-->Gorgiaonic education
sophistry allows you to reach ends that are pleasurable, but not necessarily good

According to Socratic form of education you must achieve justice, and what is
good
focuses more on elements of reasoning, questioning
With this early (465c) analogy comes a crucial claim concerning one of the dialogue's central
topics: rhetoric. Socrates discusses what he believes are false arts, such as cookery and
beautification. Each of these flawed pursuits chases a more worthy counterpart (medicine and
gymnastics respectively). The key distinction between the true and the false arts lies in the fact
that the latter target the pleasant, ignoring the good and thereby create a false impression of
value within their recipients. (Sparknotes: Gorgias)