Escolar Documentos
Profissional Documentos
Cultura Documentos
COMMISSIONER =
P a g e |2
P a g e |3
COMMISSIONER =
Thank you very much Sir. We have here Deputy
Commissioner Deles and Deputy Commissioner
Martinez. We also have Director Egay Cabarios
from Regulation Branch. Maybe we can start by
introducing our selves.
MR. YU =
Good morning Senator, Commissioners and
everyone. I am Winthrop Yu from Internet
Society Philippine Chapter.
MR. CALRDERON =
P a g e |4
ATTY. IBAY =
Good morning your Honors, Atty. Roy Ibay from
the PLDT Group.
ATTY. LIM =
Good morning Mr. Senator and Commissioners,
good morning everybody. Derek Lim of Globe
Telecom.
MR. ACERO =
Good morning Commissioners and Senator,
Francis Acero from Democracy.net.ph.
MS. SANTOS =
Good
morning
Senator,
good
morning
Commissioners,
Mary
Grace
Santos,
Independent Researcher and Research Fellow of
Learn Asia.
MR. LOGOC =
P a g e |5
P a g e |6
P a g e |7
P a g e |8
SEN. AQUINO =
May I ask what your actual suggestion is?
MR. ACERO =
To put on some provisional data capping. From
what I understand, data capping provisions were
taken out because DOJ puts on Circular on
advertising. What I am saying is kasi I think,
from what Director Egay was saying here is
because it is already in the DOJ circular. But,
correct me if I am wrong, DOJ circular is more on
the advertisements. So what we are saying is
guidelines for data volume capping is not just
with regards to advertisements.
SEN. AQUINO =
Actually, if I may share, my brother was a
classmate of Commissioner Cordoba, who lives
P a g e |9
MR. ACERO =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
But to the specific guidelines, you do not have
suggestions yet?
MR. ACERO =
We do, it is on our draft MC.
MS. SANTOS =
Good morning everyone. Again, I am Ms. Mary
Grace Santos. I am here as a research fellow of
P a g e | 10
P a g e | 11
P a g e | 12
P a g e | 13
DIR. CABARIOS =
Thank you very much Sir. It would be Metro
Manila average speed. If there is a need to,
because when you conduct test, it should not be
known to the TelCos where the test will be
conducted. So if you do it Metro Manila wide,
then the result will be Metro Manila wide. Of
course it can also be done per area, but it
should not be known as I have said by the
TelCos.
P a g e | 14
SEN. AQUINO =
Engineer, is that software based tool or is that a
hardware based tool? Meaning, are we
physically transporting something or there will
be a software that we can use in our
telephones/mobile phones or computer?
DIR. CABARIOS =
The plan Sir is to purchase a monitoring
equipment together with the software. So I think
what shall be done is to make known to the
supplier the software is to be owned by the
Commission and should be open to the public to
download the software.
SEN. AQUINO =
So it is hardware and software?
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir. Hardware and software.
SEN. AQUINO =
Yes. But the software is downloadable to the
public, for example, I am currently in Davao, I
could check it using the information that goes
P a g e | 15
P a g e | 16
DIR. CABARIOS =
The Commission will do the test and make the
official test agency we will be publishing the
official results.
SEN. AQUINO =
And does the NTC have the satellite offices? I
am not familiar yet, Regional offices Provincial
Offices?
DIR. CABARIOS =
We have fifteen (15) regional offices.
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok. So at the minimum there are 15 provinces of
15 cities that you can test without any further
support.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 17
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes the test can be done daily but the result
average will be on monthly basis.
SEN. AQUINO =
So it will not be tested once a month, so if
across the perioed but will just publish it once a
month.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir. Because the more data gathered the
better. You can get more accurate result.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 18
P a g e | 19
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yung no service, normally subscribers complain
no service and we can of course verify it if there
is really no service. And pursuant to General
Order Number 1 of the then Public Service
Commission, if the service is not available for at
least 24 hours, it is subject to rebate.
SEN. AQUINO =
And meron pong reasonability test naman po
iyon diba? Kung nasa basement level ka ng
under ground parking tapos doon ka nagtetest,
hindi naman fair yun diba?
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
So there is a reasonability test. So when
somebody
complains,
that
investigation
becomes part of the process. Kung saan ka ba
nagtest. Was that a reasonable place, etc. Then
if talagang walang service in an open area na
dapat meron ng right to ask for a refund. Pero
kung may complain regarding mas mababa
doon sa published speed for example, what
would be the process there?
DIR. CABARIOS =
P a g e | 20
P a g e | 21
DIR. CABARIOS =
P a g e | 22
P a g e | 23
P a g e | 24
SEN. AQUINO =
So far, looks like both DOJ and DTI are on the
consumer protection angle.
So I would even
suggest to the Commissioner about the MC,
even want to copy some of the parts of the
Consumer Act for example handle consumer
complaints, is that right Sir. Calderon?
MR. CALDERON =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
You can even quote parts of the Consumer Act,
you can even quote parts of the DOJ opinion in
the MC para at least nagkakasundo yung mga
agencies regarding what exactly we can do. And
at a separate document, you can even suggest
regarding your legislative amendments or
changes in the law to support the memorandum
circular even better. And that can go to us and
we can be the one to tackle that in our hearing.
Sorry for taking long on that matter.
COMMISSIONER =
You mentioned a while ago about the publication
of the results of the surveys and study. Actually
Sir, aside from the penalty, what is more
important would be the obligation because the
TelCos are rated I think on the stock market here
P a g e | 25
P a g e | 26
P a g e | 27
P a g e | 28
SEN. AQUINO =
So what you are pointing out is the stated
minimums already of the NTC that is what you
are pointing out as over-kill?
ATTY. IBAY =
Opo. And yung sa rules and measurements and
matrix. Pinadami pa po nila. Ok na po sana yung
sa service reliability na nilagay po ng NTC sa 77-2011 nagkaroon pa po ng iba-iba pa pong
measurement and matrix when in fact ang
position po namin was that we discussed there
the nature of the broadband ecosystem and we
discussed in details the parameters to be
tested. Largely, we feel that yung tests should
be conducted upto the point where yun pong
variables ay nako-control because outside
certain variables, outside certain points where
the internet is being distributed already is
already beyond the scope of what the service
provider can guarantee. For example, hindi po
ako engineer, pero pag nagpasok ng DSL sa
isang bahay, normally pag nagpagawa ka ng
bahay, kayo na ang magwa-wiring sa loob ng
bahay nyo, hindi naman po yung PLDT ang
maglalagay ng mga wires. So from the outside
plant, upto the point of entry nun, hanggang
doon lang po yung kayang i-guarantee ng PLDT.
So after that, yung point of view ng distribution,
yung router, yun po yung minsan yung router
po ninyo, sarili po ninyong provide, pero minsan
provided din ng PLDT. Pero ang point po namin,
we already outlined in detail kung ano po yung
mga variables po na hindi na po hawak ng
P a g e | 29
P a g e | 30
SEN. AQUINO =
Mr. Chairman, I would just like to ask Attorney
Ibay, kapag yung PLDT, mag-i-install sa bahay
mo, kasi ito nangyari na sa akin ito before. Diba
may technician na papasok sa bahay mo, and
then he will test right there and then from the
modem, ite-test nila yun after they activate iyon
diba? Right there and then ba they can already
make a test kung gaano kabilis yung internet na
makukuha mo? They could diba? So again, we
are not trying to ask all the parties here to do
the impossible, we just want fairness lang in the
market. It is possible that right there and then
the technician can test and can say to the
subscriber, Maam yung plan nyo po 5 Mbps
but because of your house, dahil sa wiring ninyo
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
and etc., aabot lang po sa 3.5Mbps. that is
possible diba? So that can be subject of the
Memorandum Circular. Kasi ang nangyayari po
is ite-test tapos aalis na. But then the subscriber
in her mind or in his mind, kasi yung
napirmahan nyang kontrata is 5mbps, iniisip
nya palagi 5mbps. Hindi nya alam na ganun
pala yun. Dahil sa bahay, dahil sa luma na yung
wiring. In fact they can even say, Maam
deretso nalang po natin. This happened to our
house. Ideretso nalang po natin sa poste at
hwag po tayong gumamit ng copper, gumamit
po tayo ng whatever, yung mas high-tech na
wire, para diretso na dito imbes na papasok pa
sa landline ninyo na mas makakasama dun sa
transmission ninyo. That is possible. So again, I
am not discounting what you said. Iniisip ko
lang, maybe in terms of working in the future,
pwede yun diba? Na kapag nag-set-up sila,
anyway, nakapasok naman na sila sa bahay,
they can test right there and then. They can
already say, dahil po sa bahay nyo, dahil po sa
P a g e | 31
P a g e | 32
MS. SANTOS =
Thank you Mr. Senator, essentially, the PLDT
mentioned the FCC, that is the very interesting
type of broadband in America. In the U.S. the
FCC actually has a program called Measure
Broadband America where in there is a 3 rd party,
neutral party that provides modems and routers
to consumers so that you consider the factors
that you can control while you are measuring.
So they were provider the router or hardware
and then I think it is being done in a voluntary
basis. So anyone who would want to install that
equipment at their house, they can measure.
And I would like to emphasize that what is
imporatant here is the consumer experience. I
mean, we can always look at the factor that can
be controlled by the TelCo but at the end of the
day, what does the consumer actually receive?
So I think that is one good model, you can look
at it up Measure Broadband America. So
different points in the U.S. whoever wants to
volunteer can have the equipment installed in
your house by a 3rd neutral party. I think, if I am
not mistaken it is Sam
(cont.Ms.Santos)
knows. And this particular tool is also being
used by Singapore, the IDIAS has also
implemented a similar program or they asked
consumers to participate in data collection. It is
the same provider Sam Knows din I think.
Wherein consumers can report to the regulator
the data that they have collected. So again, the
importance of having large data sets is neutral
sya, and the consumers are able to monitor the
actual service that they receive. In Japan, I think
the regulator or the Ministry of Information and
Communication also do the test but they inform
the citizen and also publish the results online.
And in Sri Lanka, which I mentioned in the
P a g e | 33
P a g e | 34
P a g e | 35
P a g e | 36
SEN. AQUINO =
Maybe a follow-up, is it included in your contarc
that your minimum speed is .9 or .5, that would
be the rough thing.
P a g e | 37
MR. RAPADAN =
But I would still appreciate it if it is clearly stated
or informed in their commercials, promotional
items and advertisings. But they do not, in fact,
if you pull up the website now of Bayantel, you
would not see the minimum speed.
SEN. AQUINO =
Why have you not changed your ISP if you have
lots of complaints?
MR. RAPADAN =
Because they always attend to my concerns,
that is the very important aspect of a clientservice provider relation. They are open to
feedback, they are open to suggestions. And
whenever I request for refund or rebate, they
always grant it. And whenever there is a
technical problem that requires them to visit
physically our place, our connection at home
and even within the area they have this called
UPAC, that is the brown cavinet where all the
switches are located. In fact, they have even
dedicated a line for me in that switch just to
make sure that I enjoy the subscribed speed
that I expect. That is something, that is lovehate
(cont.Mr.Rapadas)
relationship. But it takes to be informed by the
consumer because nalalaman naman ng ISP na
may alam yung kausap nila. So hindi po
P a g e | 38
P a g e | 39
P a g e | 40
SEN. AQUINO =
If I may add there, mabigat kung pag-uusapan
yung basic service, there is a technicial
definition to basic service and there is what we
all understand. I think yung what we all
understand, we accept that. Internet is very
important in our daily lives now a day. Now
when we put a basic service sa value-added
service, that is an age old debate. On one hand,
if we make it as a basic service, you allow
government to step-in, put a paper structure,
mandate the rates, give out franchises to those
who feel like worthy or capable of rolling-out
their infrastructure. Yung pro nun, they will get
the government to really say this is something
we need to invest in. And part of the yearly
budget needs to go to improving our internet
infrastructure just like in America, Japan even
Australia. They do allocate or they have
allocated in the past huge amount of budget
just to finish the last mile kasi in those countries
may concentration of services talaga yung sa
main cities. But in the far-plug areas, or the
farther out areas, government actually spent for
that infrastructure. That is the pro of the basic
service. The con of the basic service, as
Attorney Ibay has said, is that you are actually
closing the market. You are not opening up the
market. Mas magiging specific kung sino yung
mga pwedeng gumawa nito and as we all know
there is already a call right now to open up the
market further. If it is carried as a Basic Service,
on one hand and right now it is a Value-Added
Service, that is not a basic service, on one hand,
they cannot mandate on how much should be
the price per kilobyte. Government cannot
mandate. If it is a contract between a consumer
and a TelCo, the government cannot stand and
say, Kailangan per 1mb ganito lang yung
presyo because it is not a basic service. It is
P a g e | 41
P a g e | 42
have better options.So the question on valueadded service vs. basic service is actually
medyo mabigay sya for the TelCos, for
government, for everyone. To be frank, it is still
an on going discussion while I think one thing
we can agree on is the consumer aspect. That
this is really something that we
(cont.Sen.Aquino)
are doing that the consumers would not feel
that you are out of the process. Because that is
your money, how much does 3mbps costs?
P1,499.00. That P1,499.00, that is important.
That is a big money. So you should get what
you paid for. And at the end of the day, we are
just trying to get to that, what did I paid for?
What did they say that I am paying for? And
what am I actually paying for? Within reason.
Again within reason, we are not saying 100% of
the time kailangan ganito. The number right
now is within 30% to 80%. Ther is a suggestion
of 30% , and there are also suggestions of 80%.
So at least if these rules are out there already,
we have the monitoring mechanisms, our
consumers will be protected and will be
empowered.
MR. RAPADAS =
Again, referring to my recent upgrate on my DSL
subscription up to 3mbps, I requested the
provider to put it on two-week trial period so
that I would know if I am able to reach that
speed, and they allowed that.
SEN. AQUINO =
And again, as what you have said, love and hate
relationship. But I am still optimistic that our
P a g e | 43
COMMISSIONER =
Thank you for that question, actually the last
day for submission because we already had a
hearing last December, but
with
all
the
stakeholders. And after that, I asked for time to
submit their position papers. And then because
of the several holidays, the Christmas break and
the Papal Visit, they asked until today February
16 for the position papers. So we alrady
received some of the position papers and we are
waiting for the KBPs position paper which is
today. After that, we can already issue the MC
on the TV White Space. Sir, I will just add.
Maybe just observation sa ating RB that yung
difference between the testing on the wired and
yung wireless is not so clear. So maybe we can
P a g e | 44
P a g e | 45
ATTY. LIM =
Thank you Mr. Senator, I really think that asking
the ISP companies to declare their average
minimum speeds is a whole lot better than
requiring them to follow a minimum or fixed
minimum speed of internet service when it is
not always practical given the various
uncontrollable variables, factors existing from
(cont.Atty.Lim)
place to place. So ISPs can do that by publishing
their average internet speeds in their websites.
And people can easily refer to see those
minimum speeds when they do their browsing. I
think it is better than setting a fixed minimum
speed of broadband internet.
SEN. AQUINO =
Attorney, my question there is in fact that is my
first, when we had the first hearing last year,Do
we have a year? Not yet? I am hoping that when
we reach our 1 year, we will already have a
good news. If you remember on our first
hearing, OFC was there it was not Mon who was
there but there was another representative
there. Then after a few months, we found that
the TelCos were putting 256kbps minimum
speed, even if their up to mbps is 5 or 10. It is
like let us just all put minimum 256kbps. So it is
like whatever plan you have, as long as you are
within the minimum of 256kbps. Parang yun
P a g e | 46
P a g e | 47
P a g e | 48
SEN. AQUINO =
Ok. So I suggest you make it more straightforward to call your local service provider for the
average speed on their locality.
ATTY. LIM =
That is another suggestion. Thank you. And of
course this average minimum speed can
improve to time.
MS. SANTOS =
P a g e | 49
SEN. AQUINO =
I think we are passed that because we are
already purchasing the equipment.
MS. SANTOS =
Sir, actually, I want to clarify that too. Is the
equipment that you will purchase, can you
inform everyone, all the stakeholders wether it
is a hardware that you will put in the base
station or per network or something?
P a g e | 50
DIR. CABARIOS =
It would be hardware and a software that will be
purchased by the Commission. We will make
known in the TOR that the application software
will be made available to the consumers for
them to measure. The hardware, we will have
the hardware outside the network of the TelCos.
We will have to discuss the methodology once
we identify the suppliers so that all
stakeholders comments and suggestions will be
taken into consideration in the preparation of
the methodology with the supplier.
MS. SANTOS =
Sir, may I just raise a suggestion, when you
conduct the hearing or consultation for the
measurement tool, may I suggest to invite
network operatorss engineers and engineering
schools? I am sure that people would be happy
to comment. Sort of a fair review.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes, all interested parties.
SEN. AQUINO =
This is the usual government procurement
process. So there will be a bidding?
DIR. CABARIOS =
P a g e | 51
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
I am not too familiar with the process but you
will first release a TOR, is that right? And then
publicly you will publish that?
DIR. CABARIOS =
The TOR your Honor, if we purchase bids.
SEN. AQUINO =
Okay so that is to signify if they want to bid they
purchase the TOR.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir.
SEN. AQUINO =
Okay. And then the crafting of TOR will undergo
some consultation.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes your Honor. Later on it will be prepared by
the Commission. Of course there will be
consultation in the preparation of TOR.
P a g e | 52
MR. ACERO =
I think Ms. Santos point earlier was that if the
TelCos were going to publish on their websites
the average speeds, siguro because if there is
any, to rebut any findings of the Commission,
that is also the risk that might be there. That
what we used to measure that would be the
same tool that is used by the Commission if we
can require that.
DIR. CABARIOS =
Yes Sir because it will be make known to
everybody that we are using this.
SEN. AQUINO =
My earlier suggestion was side by side. So you
have NTC, which is the official, and you also
have from Globe from PLDT, from Speedtest,
from Ookla, because they varies right? And
consumers should be able to, I am sure, groups
like, Democracy.Net put these things side by
side for people to decide but with the
understanding that the NTC is the official one.
MR. ACERO =
Yes, the point is the tool that will be used
internally by them, it has to be similar at least.
MS. SANTOS =
P a g e | 53
SEN. AQUINO =
So with what you are saying, for everyone to
agree what the official tool is. Anyway, I think
yung position paper ni PLDT is that as long as it
is in the NTC its observer you have the list of
things, I am sure that the Globe requirements
are. But I am sure you agree that is with the NTC
is is a 3rd party. .
SEN. AQUINO =
And while we agree that consumers should also
be empowered to do their own testing,
ultimately, there is also a pure test which the
speed will have validation by the regulator.
Better yet nga is they are using the software of
the regulator also and they add to the data.
P a g e | 54
P a g e | 55
SEN. AQUINO =
And then if it is possible ano? When you publish
the results siguro, not just in a tabular format
but the graphical format like a Hint Map or
something. I am sure if this data is available in a
raw format, we will have the other groups play
with the data and not use it properly. And you
can give it back to NTC if they cannot publish it.
But then once a data is there, people will use it
as usual. People will be able to use it to help
people make their choices. So I think what is
important is that we make the data available to
the public.
ATTY. LIM =
Sir, I would just like to make a clarification, while
compliance with the average data speed
published by this TelCo is a whole lot easier
when it comes to wired lines. It may not always
be so with wireless or mobile. We should always
submit subjet to that visibility standard and of
course purchase can also contain a
(cont.Atty.Lim)
qualification there that your average broadband
speed may be affected by. But of course the
TelCos will need to comply with their published
average speed.
SEN. AQUINO =
Definitely, and I think if the people are more
knowledgable, it is helpful for everyone. Again,
it would not just be the TelCos. Sometimes I feel
that they are always providing money for the
infrastructure, but then people are never
P a g e | 56
P a g e | 57
MR. YU =
In what year did they define that?
ATTY. IBAY =
Well, last year they released the 2014 State of
the
Broadband
Report
to
Broadband
Commission and it is still there.
MR. YU =
Yes but when was it first defined?
ATTY. IBAY =
I really do not know but up to now, the question
is ITU still stands on its own definition? So if we
will have issues with ITU, then let us go to the
ITU and tell them to revise their definition.
SEN. AQUINO =
P a g e | 58
P a g e | 59
Prepared by: