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Tips for 737NG manoeuvers for sim [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

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PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log > Tips for 737NG manoeuvers for sim

View Full Version : Tips for 737NG manoeuvers for sim

Low-bypass

PDA

13th Apr 2011, 17:49

Hello chaps
I'm on a 737NG course busy with FFS at this stage and i'd like some tips about the raw data ILS approach.Do you actually
need to follow the settings like at flaps 5 60% N1 and pitch 6 degrees up?if u're able to maintain speed for the selecting flap
won't your N1 be in the neighborhood of 60% and so forth for flaps 15 and 30.Secondly in anticipation of the Engine failure
after v1 or 2 that we'll practice tomorrow what are the tips to remain on course without drifting away more than 5 degrees
after you lift-off from the ground?any help is appreciated

STBYRUD

13th Apr 2011, 21:31

Hey there, those rule of thumb-thrust settings (fifties for Flaps 30, sixties for Flaps 40) are good to check if youre in the right
region, generally you'll be alright speedwise if you stick to them, the rest is stick and rudder skills, same with the engine
failure - the 737 is a lot tamer than a piston trainer, use the same skills - failure shortly after rotation: bank the aircraft onto
the failed engine, 'lean' over the runway and keep the track line in the middle, then slowly reduce the bank while giving
more and more rudder. Trim as soon as you can to at least five units to prevent your legs from shuddering ;) You'll be
fine... after all its a course, there should be an instructor to help you along if you encounter problems - good luck!

Low-bypass

13th Apr 2011, 23:25

Thank u very much STBYRUD i will try and follow your advises as much as i can do i'm sure this will help me tremendously.I
appreciate

chemicalbrother

14th Apr 2011, 00:12

the 737 is a lot tamer than a piston trainer

i don't really find that - piston trainers don't have a swept wing, are slow by comparison, have the inertia of a crisp packet
and have instant engine and control response. a jet basically just needs more finesse and anticipation, particularly on
approach, but all perfectly do-able...
when you're flying raw data approaches, remember that its not really true raw data if you're flying a modern aircraft - you
still have a helping hand from the track line data on the ND (even if you're using ILS mode rather than the normal moving
map mode). Using that will help you anticipate localiser movement as you descend and the wind starts backing or becoming
more turbulent. scan the VSI as well as pitch attitude to make sure your pitch corrections to track the glideslope are smooth
and not over-cooked - i.e. don't needle chase, laterally or vertically (standard stuff from your piston training but even more
important at higher approach speeds). remember the slow spool up on your engine(s). for instance, if you're slowing to bug
speed, anticipate the power increase which will be required. scan N1 more often at this point to achieve this. the fan takes a
long time to wind up from approach idle.
as for the v1 cuts on departure, let the plane react long enough to be certain which engine has failed (doesn't take long),
dont panic and do the wrong thing. then feed in the rudder smoothly but with enough determination to stop the thing heading
towards the grass, which it will rapidly if you're too tentative. don't pump the rudder - in a light twin with a straight wing you
can get away with murder, but in a jet you'll do aerobatics, so smoothly does it.
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06/04/13
Tips for 737NG manoeuvers for sim [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums
can get away with murder, but in a jet you'll do aerobatics, so smoothly does it.
as STDBYRUD says, talk to all your instructors about it - they'll have different points of view, you'll work out which way of
thinking about things makes sense to you.
like most aspects of a type rating course, its the fact that time is very limited and precious in a sim which piles the pressure
on. you can never practice something as many times as you'd ideally like to in order to really nail it down.
good luck with it

misd-agin

14th Apr 2011, 01:24

Low bypass - IMO there was excellent, and fairly consistent, advice given in a previous thread about 747 V1 engine failures.
The techniques are the same for most jet airliners http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/445486-747-v1-cut-advice.html

greenslopes

14th Apr 2011, 01:28

For a single engine approach with Fl 15, check the weight of aircraft via FMC , this will give you a rough figure for N1 setting.
I.e weight 55t so set N1 55%, this aint perfect but gives you an idea where you should be.
Good Luck

BOAC

14th Apr 2011, 11:35

what are the tips to remain on course without drifting away more than 5 degrees after you lift-off from the ground? - err,
how about change heading 5 degrees?

A37575

14th Apr 2011, 13:42

bank the aircraft onto the failed engine, 'lean' over the runway and keep the track line in the middle, then slowly reduce the
bank while giving more and more rudder. Trim as soon as you can to at least five units to prevent your legs from
shuddering
Not a recommended Boeing technique. See FC TM words: "If engine failure occurs at or after lift off, apply rudder and aileron
to control heading and keep the wings level
There is no hurry to adjust the rudder trim as it is quite easy to hold the yaw with appropriate rudder pressure.

Checkboard

14th Apr 2011, 18:43

Remember you must pass the sim first - so don't worry too much about "real life flying" - if you can pass the sim, you earn
the fun of finding out real life ;) The point is, the sim does fly a little differently (a lot differently, if you have an old one) but that is the game you are judged on, that is the game you play.
In that sense - quite a few sim instructors get excited about learning "target values" like 58.5% for this, and 2.3 for that and that is because they sit in the back on exercise after exercise in the same sim, at the same landing weight, at the same
wind. :rolleyes:
Yes - the real world is a bit different every time. Yes - in the real world, you set whatever power gives you the performance
you want (and I don't even LOOK at the gages.) BUT remember - you aren't IN the real world.
Your job now is the "OIC " method of learning... When the sim instructor says "Fly the single engine approach at 5.2 and
56.5%, you say "Oh! I see ..." fly the numbers given, pass the sim, and go on knowing that trying to remember THAT level
of accuracy is totally unnecessary (and counter-productive) in the "real" world. :)
... it's not all rubbish, though. 60% power and 6 of pitch will get you out of most situations. :)
737 single engine handling tip - think of the thrust levers as your feet. Right thrust lever up by 10% (of available travel) =
right foot forward on the rudder pedals by 10% (of available travel). That'll keep you pretty much straight on the single
engine flying bit. :ok:

sycamore

16th Apr 2011, 21:11

I would beware of anyone who suggests you`` bank the aircraft onto the failed engine`...!!!!!

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