Artist Interview: Ryoji Ikeda, creator of superposition

by The UMS Lobby

Photo: Moment in superposition. Photo by Kazuo Fukunaga.

superposition is a performance created by visual and sound artist Ryoji Ikeda. Inspired
by the mathematical notions of quantum mechanics, Ikeda employs a spectacular
combination of synchronized video screens, real-time content feeds, digital sound
sculptures, and for the first time in Ikedas work, human performers.
The work will be premiered at the MET in New York City immediately before it arrives in
Ann Arbor on October 31 and November 1.The interview excerpted below is between
Ryoji Ikeda and Peter Weibel, and was recorded at ZKM Karlsruhe on July 31, 2012 by
Manuel Weber and transcribed by Wolfgang Knapp.
Peter Weibel: First, thank you for the time and opportunity to speak about your work.
My first question would be about title: superposition. Are you referring to the quantum
mechanical idea or are you referring to the cinema, where you work with
superpositions. What is the idea behind the title?
Ryoji Ikeda: I have never specified anything. How did you feel when you heard the
word superposition? I am very curious about peoples can impressions when they

hear superposition.
PW: Well, I would think of the wave function of Schrdinger, from quantum mechanics.
Then I would think of the super-imposing of image on image, and then I would think of
the observer who has a position superior to anything else.
RI: Because you are a very intellectual person. When you hear the word superposition,
you are inspired. But, for example, my mother just thinks, Super! Position! The word
has a very wide spectrum of meanings, and I think thats good. People can get many
meanings. And of course, I am obsessed by that quantum mechanical meaning. And
also, the other superposition principle, the fundamental principle of physics. For
example, the harmonics that superpose and that make our voice and sound.
superposition performance trailer:

PW: So you are also thinking of musical notations? Of the superimposition of

frequencies?
RI: Yes, exactly. But the core topic for me is the quantum mechanical meaning, the
fundamental characteristic of quantum physics.
PW: When did you become interested in the quantum nature of reality? And why?
RI: I read some books when I was a student. Of course, it was really difficult and pretty
counter-intuitive. But it stunned me to discover quantum mechanics. After that, I
became an artist, but it was absolutely impossible to describe quantum mechanics for
my art. So, I just make a piece of art. Its a performing art piece, which never explains
quantum mechanics. It is rather inspired by quantum mechanics. Some of the
expressions are scientifically correct. I use lots of data sets from NASA and so on, but

the construction, the composition is very intuitive because I am an artist. So, its
hybrid.
PW: I see. I can imagine that when you have to make a decision between the classical
world view that means causality and mechanics and quantum mechanics, I think
that, as an artist, the idea of uncertainty or of many different possible worlds is more
attractive. I think all these possible worlds give us as artists more freedom.
The people who help you working on the superposition performance your assistants;
are they programmers? Musicians? What is their profession?
RI: They are basically programmers. And architects and all kinds of artists. They are
very young, in their twenties. They can program almost in every language. Super.
PW: I have a question for you as an artist. How do you solve the following problem?
Morton Feldman, the wonderful American composer, said that music is structure.
Normally it is time-based structure. But Feldman disliked most kind of music because
it is a slave of time. Rhythm and beat these things control the music. Time tells music
what to do. But Feldman wanted to destroy this control. He wanted music that was not
slave to time. How do you solve this problem? Can we create a music that is superior,
music that destroys our structure of time?
RI: I really like most of Feldmans music and his philosophy, but I cant really follow him.
And after John Cage and after that generation, you know, and the generation of
computer and programming, my direction is super-precise, it is the direction on
control.
PW: So, no chance experiments like Cage. Control instead of chance.
RI: I try to control randomness. This is a big counterpoint, the encounter of
randomness and control. The contrast is more interesting. If you really control a
millisecond, there are other possibilities, even if they are microscopic. You cant
perceive the change directly, but if you pay very close attention, the entire composition
changes. So, I try to add randomness, and I like to see the counterpoint, the
counterbalance.
PW: Schnberg in his book Style and Harmony stated that the composers challenge is
to move from one note to the next. You dont work with notes but with waves,
continuous sine waves. A note is a discrete model. As an acoustic artist, how do you
see this problem?
RI: Of course, I use sine waves, pure waves, but if you reduce the waveform to its
function, this point is very, very tiny and is called the impulse. It is so short that when

you listen to such a sample you dont hear it. The point is what makes the acoustics.
Sine waves are continuous, they have no direction. They never contribute to acoustics.
Its the opposite of white noise, which is random. Thats a different thing, but I use lots
of impulse, as you will hear. Id never use one hundred speakers like [the composer]
Stockhausen does. No. Mono! At the center of a church or some very large space,
maybe just an impulse on a single mono speaker. That would make you feel the very
acoustics spatially through some rich reverb created by that very short impulse.
PW: I see. The acoustics of a wave is a kind of point you
RI: you slice.
PW: Exactly.
RI: Any point.
PW: Brilliant idea. So I see that you are now investigating not only a new organisation
of sounds but a new series of harmonies on a technical and mathematical basis.
RI: Yes. That is my basic research. This is not really the work of an artist but basic
research for basic knowledge to find my language. To develop my alphabet and the
grammar is my structure, my music. And I dont want to use the normal alphabet.
Interested in learning more? See Ryoji Ikeda in Ann Arbor as part of the Penny
Stamps Lecture Series and also the Saturday Morning Physics Series. Details on
ums.org.