Defendant Interview

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TAPED TRANSCRIPT OF ERICA PUGH
CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE DAVID PHELAN
CASE NUMBER 14-012788
DATED CONDUCTED FEBRUARY 11, 2014
DATED TRANSCRIBED FEBRUARY 13, 2014
have to face right now. (crying)
Okay today is Tuesday, February 11, 2014, the time is 0205 hours. I'm Detective
David A. Phelan. Also present is Sergeant Mike Ruggiero, Orange County
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Sheriff's Office. Were currently seated at Olympia High School parking lot.
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Seated in an unmarked Sheriffs Office vehicle. Im here speaking with;
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State your first and last name for me.
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Erica Pugh. (crying)
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Erica.
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Im (inaudible) (crying) Thats enough (Inaudible)..
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Erica, like I said, I'm Detective Dave Phelan okay. And we are detectives with
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the Orange County Sheriff's Office. Were here to investigate exactly what
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happened tonight okay. So, we need to talk to you to get an idea of what
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happened. But before we talk to you I have to read you your Rights okay.
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I already know my Miranda Rights, Ive been read them once tonight you dont
have to that, I dont want to go
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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We have to do
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through that again.
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Erica Pugh/Case #14-012788/GB
for procedure.
I understand.
Itll just take a minute. Okay Erica.
Can I at least tune you out since Ive already heard it once tonight?
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Well Im gonna, Im gonna read em and you can say whether you, you hear me
or not okay. You have the right to be silent. Anything you say.
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(Inaudible)..
maybe used against you in court.
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(Inaudible)..
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You have the right to talk to a lawyer before and during questioning without
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charges.
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(Inaudible)..
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If you cannot afford a lawyer and want one..
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One will be appointed
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.one can be provided for you before questioning without charge. Has anyone
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threatened you or promised you anything to get you to talk to me?
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No.
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Do you understand what I just read to you?
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Yes sir. I wanted to study law thats why I know my Miranda Rights.
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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(chuckle)
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(laugh) Thats the only way I know them.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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Alright whered you go to school?
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I wanted to go to school for forensics.
Okay, whered you go to school at?
I havent started school yet, but I went to school at Delmar High School.
Wheres that at?
Bum Fuck Maryland.
Okay.
(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Maryland.
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Maryland.
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Delmar its in the Delaware/Maryland line.
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Okay. How long you been here in Florida?
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How long? I dont even know why he did this to me cause I wanted to come out
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here to do go to school to be a lawyer or forensic sciences.
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Im saying how long have you been here? A week, a month, a year?
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Couple of months.
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A couple of months. Okay, where you been staying at since you been here?
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Ive been bouncing around from couch to couch thats why I cant give a stable
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address.
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Okay. And your name is Erica Pugh?
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Yes.
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Thats P-U
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Like a church pugh yes.
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P-U-G-H?
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Yes.
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And your date of birth is February 27, 1995?
Yes sir.
Do you have a cell phone Erica?
They took it from me.
someone got it? One of the deputies got it?
Like I said this is all I know that happened. I get stopped. Theyre.. Im in their
custody I see you, your, your
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
Who lets start from the beginning.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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Who were you with tonight?
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I was with my boyfriend, Benjamin Edward Holterman.
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Benjamin Edward
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Holterman, H-O-L
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H-O-L
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T-E-R
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T-E-R
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M-A double N.
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M-A-N-N. How long have you known Ben?
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Im almost with him for a year and hes never like, hes never
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For a year?
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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(Inaudible)..
Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
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Almost a year and hes never, EVER, Ive never seen a gun.
Okay.
This is shocking me.
Tell me
(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
Was it just the two of you?
Yes sir.
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Ah, Benjamin a white male, black male?
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(No verbal response)..
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Hes a white guy?
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Yes sir.
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And ah, how old is he?
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Twenty-seven. Born July 6th, I cant remember the date, the year. Hell pop up in
Afis hes wanted on parole. Hes wanted for parole in fucking Maryland.
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Okay. And um,
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I just need
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So, its Benjamin Edward Holtermann?
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Holtermann.
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Holtermann.
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Thank you for getting me out the car, the handcuffs.
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Okay so, Benjamin ah, how what time did yall get together or you live with
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him?
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I dont live with him.
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Okay where does he live?
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I dont have any idea. I picked him up from Wal-Mart and grocery stores and this
and that and I just be like this is too much Im done and then Ill call back to him.
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Whered you pick him up from tonight?
Publix over on Hiawassee. By the Pet Supermarket.
You picked him up on Publix on Hiawassee at about what time?
Eight thirty.
And he was near the Pet Supermarket?
Yes sir. He was in between Publix and the Pet Supermarket. In front of that
restaurant, I dont know the name of it. Cause Ive never been, but its in front of
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that restaurant.
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Okay. And ah, how was he dressed when you ah, pick him up?
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He was in everything that he was in tonight, which was white and gray-ish plaid
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hoodie. Black jeans and like Im wearing one of his shirts. So, if you can see
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how his V-neck is.
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Except his is blue.
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Okay.
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Almost the color of your detective shirt.
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Okay. And ah, he has on what jeans? Black jeans?
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Black-ish, dark.
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Okay and where do yall go from there?
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Where do we go. He was like, take me to my moms house right. So, I come up
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here he says, turn here and then he makes me park in that cul-de-sac. And Im
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parking waiting for him. And I go around. Oh my goodness Im probably gonna
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get charged for this. I go around the back of the house to use the restroom.
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Cause I found out I am pregnant. And I go around the side of the house to use
the restroom I come back out somebodys pointing at my car, well his car. And
theyre like, is this your car? Im like, yeah but I was afraid that I was getting in
trouble for peeing in the backyard. So, and then like I just drove away and I go
park the car.
So, who was it that confronted you?
I dont know some older, elderly gentleman.
(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
So, it wasnt a law enforcement officer it was a
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An elderly gentleman. A resident of the area.
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Okay.
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And like I said I was scared that I was getting in trouble for pissing in somebody
elses backyard.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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Okay so then, after you, after you drive off where do you go?
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I go down
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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Did you drive off together or just you?
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It was just me. I said screw him. I dont like, and now that I know that hes done
Okay.
shot a cop I dont want anything
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Okay lets not jump ahead in the story though. I want you to stay
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Yes sir.
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Lets stay chronological. So, you drive off in the car alone. Where is Benjamin?
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I dont know. I call him, he cant give me his exact location. And then I get
picked up by the sheriffs.
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You parked obviously.
I parked.
Okay so lets
And I walk away and walk away
What did he tell you? Did he tell you to..
He told me
.park and wait?
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to park the car and get out of it. Im like why its your car like what do you
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want me to do like its nothing wrong with it? Hes like, just get out of the car and
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leave it. So, I did is just that and walked away.
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Okay. And thats when you, thats when an officer, deputy made contact with
you?
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Yes sir.
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And then what did you see?
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Im in the back of the police car. I see the deputy come around the back to his
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trunk and pull out a shotgun. And then he sits there for at least 20 minutes and
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then he just like, your boyfriend shot a deputy put your hands behind your back
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and he arrests me.
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Did you ever hear a gunshot?
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No, Im listening to.. Im tuned out to music cause Im in shock. I dont know
whats going on. And then didnt hear a gunshot.
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Now I mightve missed it when I got out of the car. But you said you were only in
Orlando for couple of months
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Yes sir.
But then you said that you were dating Benjamin for about a year.
Yes we met in Maryland.
Oh you actually met in Maryland.
We met in Maryland.
And did you come here together?
No. He comes up a week before Christmas. I come up at least three days before
Christmas, come down I mean. Excuse me Im used to going up to New York so,
come down
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Okay so, you met him in Maryland.
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He moves down here and then I move down here. And Im just chasing wild
love. I am so
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You, so you were living with him?
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No.
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Who were you living with here?
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I was.. here? Like I told him, I am bouncing from couch to couch to couch
because
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Wheres Benjamin living?
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God only knows.
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You dont know where he lives?
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No I dont care to. Like I said, like I told him, he makes me pick him up at
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random spots. Like hell be like, go get my car and come pick me up. And Ill be
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like why? And hell be like just cause I dont want to talk to you. Im like alright
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whatever.
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So, does, you dont know if he lives with his parents, brother, sister?
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Like I said thats what he, thats his excuse was to pulling over in that cul-de-sac
so I can go talk to my parents.
And you didnt know if that was true or not?
No I did not know. Ive never met his parents. Hes not
Never met em?
No, hes ca.. hes not Caucasian, but hes Asian. And he was adopted brought
over from Korea. So, I never met any of his people. Ive never met any of
parents.
You sure this is his name?
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Yes Im positive. Ive seen his Korean birth certificate. Of course we got, he got
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rid of that a long time ago cause I told him hes wanted for parole in Maryland.
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Ive seen his drivers license, his birth certificate.
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You saw a license with this name on it, Benjamin Holtermann?
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Yes Ive seen his Korean birth certificate. Ive seen his citizenship. Ive seen all
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the like thats the first thing I ask for when I meet somebody is all your legal
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documents to know who you are.
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Has he been arrested here in Orlando to your knowledge?
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No.
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Um, what I did was I asked one of my detectives to pull up his DL photo.
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And if they can find his DL photo I want you to take a look at the DL photo and
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see if this is the right person that were, that youre talking about. Um, so that,
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we may be able to do that here in a minute. I think in fact this, this detective may
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have that.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
Did you find it?
Q?
No, nothing.
Try identification, Maryland. You have to be looking in Maryland he doesnt have
(cough)
any
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
Oh he doesnt have the Florida
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He doesnt have anything with the name of Florida on it.
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She says in Maryland.
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Try Maryland.
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She said he is Korean. But shes seen a Maryland I.D. with this name on it.
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Yes Ive seen Maryland I.D. with that name on it. Ive seen his, his um..
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Q?
Nothing here.
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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Nothing here. She said that hes only been here a couple of months.
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Q?
Okay.
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But she thinks that he may be wanted in Maryland.
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Wanted for parole in Maryland. He has robbed mind you three banks. This man
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should not be out on the street.
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Q?
Okay. So, we need to get a hold of Maryland.
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She said he is, he is Korean?
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Hes Korean. Ive seen his citizenship, Ive seen everything that like proves to
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me. Like I told him I, I check everything out before I
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Q?
So, Asian guy
.get in a relationship.
Q?
.from Maryland. Thats the correct name?
Yes.
Q?
Okay and
And but
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Date of birth 76
He is 27 hes 27 years old okay. Hold on.. but when he moved over to America I
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didnt understand this. Yall probably wont understand this. They messed up his
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birthday. So, his birthday might be 86 or 85 Im not sure.
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Q?
Okay.
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Cause Ive seen a lot of documentations with two different birthdays on it and its
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like throwing me off ever since I met him.
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Q?
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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Thank you. Okay I was under the impression that it was a Florida I.D. or license
so Im glad we got that straighten out.
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Okay alright let me get a hold of them.
Hes never had any documentation with his name on it that says Florida. And
you guys Im so sorry for you guys loss.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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Okay so, you pick him up from the um..
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Publix by ..
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Publix.
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. Pet Supermarket.
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And thats on Hiawassee and what?
Hiawassee .. oh. I think, I want to say.. Im in Metro West somewhere.
(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
In Metro West?
Its around Metro West its like Hiawass..
Maybe on Kirkman?
No its right there Hiawassee.
Hiawassee.
Hiawassee and Metro West Boulevard. Instead of making that when youre
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coming from Old Winter Garden instead of making that left on Metro West you go
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up to the second light and you make that right its the Publix. That left into the
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Publix. Im sorry Ive never been good at direction.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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And you picked him up about 2030. And he was near the Pet Supermarket.
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Yes sir.
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In front of a restaurant. Okay tell me ah, how did you get his car?
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I had it for the day.
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Okay you had it for the day.
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Yeah cause I was
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Where..
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I was try like I said I been trying to get into school. Ive been trying to ride
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around find out which school I want to go to so he let me use his car. And he
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tells me to pick him up. And he was gonna drop me off back home when he got
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done with his parents.
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Okay whats his phone number?
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Im trying.. 8.. it sounds like its a bunch of bologna, 813-394-3947. Thats the
only way I know that number.
Your phone number?
I dont know. I just got this phone number, 407 something. I told them that I
could try to get him here but I doubt hell hes..
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
Get who here?
Benjamin. I could be like meet me at the high school. But you guys have all
these sheriffs here so, he wont fall for that.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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So, when he, he got out he was dressed in a hoodie?
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Yeah a white and black plaid hoodie.
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A white and black plaid hoodie, black jeans.
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And a baby blue T-shirt almost except it was a V-neck T-shirt like this one.
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Except its his color.
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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So, a light blue T-shirt.
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Can I take off my jacket its getting kind of
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Yeah if you want. And you said a black and white
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Black and white plaid jacket.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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And he, he told you he was going to visit, going to visit his family?
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Yes, he said let me go talk with my parents. And Im like alright Ill pull over here.
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Okay. And the ah, how often has he asked you to drop him off at different
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places like this?
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Never. This is the first time. Cause like I said I dont ever come out here this
late with him. I dont like going anywhere late at night. Im one to be in bed right
now.
Okay. Who were you staying with today or last night?
I stayed with a friend last night.
Okay. And what was that friends name?
Um, Miranda.
M-I-R-A-N-D-A?
Yes.
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You know her last name?
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Johnson, J-O-H-N-S-O-N.
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You got a phone number for Miranda?
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No I do not. I met this girl on the street in NA meeting. I was NA meeting and I
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met her. And I told her my story and how Ive been clean for almost a two years.
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And how I needed a place to stay cause I just moved out here. So, shes like
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yeah you can come stay with me for a couple of nights.
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And I.. what he do come pick you up this morning or
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Yeah. He dropped off the car to me this morning made me go drop him off at a
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Wal-Mart. Im sorry to bother you but can I please use the bathroom? Ive been
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holding it ever since Ive been in that restroom.
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Alright we got a female. (getting out of car)
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Do you want me to step out with you?
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Just wait right here.
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Okay. Out of all these officers Im pretty sure you have at least one female
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around here.
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Okay. What kind of car was he.. were you driving?
A Honda Accord with like weird blue license plate.
And you are positive no one else was in the car with you tonight?
I am positive. Am I under arrest in anywhere?
The ah, deputy I think arrested you already for a ah, over there in those folks
yard probably.
No I wasnt in anybodys yard I was in the sidewalk.
Well you know.
He did he said I was never under arrest he never told me I was under arrest
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until the fir fir.. the shots were fired thats when he was like, put your hands
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behind your back. But I dont know if he was just trying to make sure I was
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secure or what.
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Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Okay.
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But its also the officer that lost his partner tonight.
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Hm. Okay
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(inaudible).. seen the pain in that mans eyes.
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Can you get a female that can get her to a bathroom or something?
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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(SERGEANT RUGGIERO)
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Yeah you know what, lets just um, are we off?
No not yet.
Go ahead and go off tape and well take her.
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Okay. Um, you.. raise your right hand for me. Do you swear the statement you
just gave is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Yes I do so help me God.
Okay. Right now like I was trying to explain to you were investigating the murder
of the ah, police officer. As far as the deputy taking you into custody you were
taken into custody as far as that being a ah, you know .,..
How did I
possibly involved because your boyfriend was
(inaudible)..
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involved some kind of way. Ah we are still trying to determine exactly what
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your involvement is okay.

A
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I dont have any involvement I dont want to be involved. I just want to get home
and go to sleep.
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Okay the time is now
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Time is 3 no 2
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0225 hours. That will conclude this interview.
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THIS IS A TRUE AND CORRECT TRANSCRIPT
of the interview which was sworn before me.
Signed this______day of_____________________, 2014
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_________________________________________________
DETECTIVE PHELAN, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF
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TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF ERICA PUGH
CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE PHELAN
CASE NUMBER 14-12788
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(Inaudible, whispering)
(Background talking)
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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(DETECTIVE MOOREHEAD)
Q
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Alright Miss Pugh.
(Inaudible)
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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Huh?
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(Inaudible)
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Can you turn up the heat some, I mean like its freezing in here.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Q
Thats about high as it gets back here unfortunate. Warm up. Okay Erica weve
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spoken previously and this is Detective
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Im Detective Moorehead with the Orange County Sheriff's Office Sector Three
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Property Crimes Unit.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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Okay and Im Detective Phelan as youve already met. Uh just for clarification
youve already been read your rights right?
1
Erica Pugh/Case #14-12788/YJ/02/13/2014
(No audible response)
Do you understand those rights?
And uh you uh
Im being charged with murder.
Huh? Do you think you should be being charged with murder?
No I wasnt involved.
Okay then I want you to explain to us why cause like I said first uh do you
understand your rights?
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Yes sir.
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Okay do I need to read those to you again?
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No sir (inaudible)
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Okay you have the right to remain silent.
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Anything you say can and will be against, against you in a court of law, you have
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attorn, you have the right to an attorney, if you want to be, I know my Miranda
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rights. I can recite them to you if I wasnt in so much shock but (inaudible)
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(Inaudible)
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I wanted to be (inaudible)
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Q
Okay. Ima read them okay. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you
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say may be used against you in court. You have the right to talk a lawyer before
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and during questioning without charge. If you cannot afford a lawyer and want
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one one can be provided for you before questioning without charge. Has anyone
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threatened you or promised you anything to get you to talk to me?
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No sir.
Do you understand
Yes.
what I just read to you?
Yes sir.
Okay. And you still wanna talk to us about this thing?
Hes dead?
Yeah.
(Inaudible)
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Okay youre pregnant?
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Yes.
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For him?
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By him, yes.
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Okay. Tell me a little bit about Benjamin. Hes uh
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Hes a very gentle sweet loving man.
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How old is Benjamin?
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Hes 27.
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Twenty seven?
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Yes.
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Okay. Just for the record the time is now uh
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3:45.
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0345 hours and were here in reference to Orange County case numbers 14-
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12783, 1412788 and 1412789. Okay now what I want you to do is listen to what
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Im asking you okay and try and answer the questions that I ask you. Alright
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Ima, we gonna discuss some stuff here.
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(Exhale)
Youve known him for about over a year.
Almost, not
And you met him in where?
Maryland
Maryland.
(inaudible).
You gon have to talk up a little bit for the tape.
Salisbury, Maryland.
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Salisbury. And thats where youre originally from?
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Im originally from Delmar.
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Delmar Maryland.
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Im originally from Delmar, met in Salisbury just like right there.
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Okay. Have you ever been arrested before?
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Yes sir I have.
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And for what?
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It was stupid, it was juvenile, I broke into a house to party and I was caught with
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burglary.
Q
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Okay. And uh are you, do you know whether you have a warrant for your arrest
right now?
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Yes I do, I have a writ, a warrant in Maryland for failure to appear, I just want to
go home.
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Failure to appear on what?
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Stealing a wig.
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A wig?
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A wig.
Out of a store?
Yes sir.
How long ago did this happen?
Not too long after I met Benjamin.
Okay. And uh what, do you have an address in Maryland?
29846 Connelley Mill Road.
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Q
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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29
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Here Ill write it for you guys cause
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Just a, just say it again, 29
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846 Connelley Mill Road.
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What city?
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Delmar (inaudible), 28175.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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875.
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(Inaudible), thats where your moms address?
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Thats my moms address.
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Whats your moms name?
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Carolyne (Inaudible).
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Carolyne Moses?
Yeah C A R O L Y N E Moses.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Q
I know you gave me her phone number, whats that phone number again for your
mom?
4 1 0 8 9 6 9 9 3 7, would you mind if I call her before I go over?
Uh
Is this your cell phone?
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Thats, no home phone.
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Home. Does she have a cell phone?
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I know its, its in my phone, I dont know it.
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Okay.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
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So you
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I have 4 0 1 4 2 2 6 7 7 6, 7 0 6 2.
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Say that again.
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4 1 0
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Uh huh (Affirmative)
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4 2 2
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7 0 6 2.
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Thank you.
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(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Okay so you met him a year ago?
Okay and he told you his name is what? And you looked at his birth certificate
and everything?
Whats his name?
Benjamin Edward Holtermann.
Benjamin Edward Holtermann, H O
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L T E R M A double N (inaudible).
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Well were gonna have to talk about him cause thats why were here.
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Yes.
13
Okay. Um what caused Ben, well let me ask you this, what do you know about
Bens criminal history?
14
15
I dont know anything. I know as much as he told me and
16
And what did he tell you?
17
He claims he robbed three banks in, in Baltimore County prominent bank.
18
Okay.
19
What are you guys gonna do with his body, like how is that gonna be handled
20
cause I know what he has.
21
He robbed three banks where?
22
Baltimore Maryland. May I get a tissue or something?
23
24
Q
Ill go grab some.
25
7
1
2
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Q
Okay so he, you guys decided that you were gonna move here so he came down
first?
He came down first.
How did he get here?
We both come here on ride shares, theres only enough seats for one of us each
time, ride share meaning we hopped in somebody elses care, paid them a little
bit of money to bring us down here. (Inaudible) per seat.
Okay so did you know the person you came down with?
10
I met him on, thank you sweetheart.
11
12
13
I met him on line somewhere. I get, all I know is his name is Joe and he has a
14
son (inaudible) thats the only reason why I choose to ride with him because I
15
knew he wouldnt try to hurt me cause he has a kid hes got to go home to.
16
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
17
Okay. So when do uh he show up here, when do he come to Orlando?
18
He came a week before I did and we were in Daytona Beach.
19
Okay so yall originally came to Daytona Beach?
20
Yeah and I decided its too much ghetto
21
Okay so when did he go to Daytona Beach?
22
He went there, Im trying to think cause I know I got there the 23rd, he was there
23
a week before I was I know that.
24
So somewhere around the 15th or so of uh December
25
Yes.
8
of last year?
Yes sir.
And yall went, and you went, you came down on the 23 rd of December?
Yes.
Okay and yall were in Daytona Beach at that point?
Yes sir.
Okay and when did yall move, come over here to Orlando?
Two days before Super Bowl, I dont even remember (inaudible) in March the
Super Bowl.
10
Okay the car that you were driving tonight, whose car is that?
11
I dont know, he (inaudible).
12
Huh?
13
I dont know, I thought, I was under the assumption it was his parents. Like I say
14
(inaudible) was a bunch of bullshit I really did think I was going to him parents
15
house.
16
Okay. How long have you had that car?
17
I dont know how long did he have it.
18
Did you have it when you were in Daytona, did you have it
19
No. It popped up a couple of weeks ago.
20
Couple of weeks ago put you well pass Super Bowl.
21
No
22
Well before the Super
23
about a week ago.
24
well before the Super Bowl.
25
About a week ago, I dont know, it just pops up one day.
9
And what kind of car is that?
Honda Accord.
What color?
I dont know the color.
Is it light, dark?
Its like a darkish silvery grayish tan.
Two door, four door?
I know its four door. After all I was driving it tonight (inaudible). Why are you
10
guys asking about this car?
11
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
12
Because we just, Im just trying to run straight down and see where, where yall
13
been, whats been going on. So you have this, this Accord shows up a week or
14
two ago and
15
Hold on, let me think. Im like, like I said Im in too much shock to be thinking
16
this, this much. It was probably about a week, no it wasnt a week ago, it was
17
(inaudible), three or four days ago, almost a week.
18
Okay. So this car shows up and uh hes driving it or?
19
20
Okay. And then he asked you to start driving it?
21
22
Okay.
23
24
(Music tone)
Q
Go ahead.
25
10
(Inaudible)
Would they at least let me smoke a fricking cigarette?
Not until were done with this.
Im talking bout like after all this would they let me smoke one?
Yeah Im sure they will.
I dont have one.
(Inaudible)
I doubt you guys, any of you guys smoke. (Inaudible, whispering).
10
Are you pregnant?
11
12
How far along are you?
13
(Inaudible)
14
Three or four weeks.
15
Yeah I missed my period a couple of weeks ago.
16
Youve been to a doctor?
17
18
Did you take a test?
19
Im scared.
20
So you dont know if youre pregnant, its not actually confirmed you just suspect
21
22
23
you are?
A
I know I am. Ive been pregnant one before. I dont need a medical nurse.
Cause I gave up that baby cause I was only 16 years old.
24
25
11
1
2
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Q
Okay so this Accord shows up and uh he, you started driving it for him. Uh hes
staying one place and youre staying one place?
3
4
Is that?
Yes sir thats true.
Okay. Uh prior to tonight, on how many separate occasions have you driven him
to communities?
One. I told you tonight was my very first night.
10
What was the discussion tonight, why did he have you drive him tonight?
11
I dont know, it was something retarded, we had a big ass argument about it
12
(inaudible). I forget our fucking argument cause I just wanna put this behind me
13
but it was something about like Oh I need you to come do something for me.
14
Hes like I need you to drive. It was some reason for me having to drive.
15
16
I just wanna die man I.
17
Okay. So you have this conversation and then what did he tell you, what, how
did you get to where youre going?
18
19
20
21
He said straight, go straight up Apopka Vineland, Apopka Vineland and then turn
right here at Courtleigh Park.
22
(Inaudible), you know, youve been here, youre telling me youve been here what
a week in Orlando?
23
24
You know the streets better than I do.
25
I like streets, I walk, all I do is walk.
12
1
2
Where were you staying?
Im homeless.
Homeless or not where were you staying?
I was staying here, there, everywhere, on park benches, behind somebodys

scrubs in front of their house. I dont like it, (inaudible), I tried to go home.
7
8
And where was he staying?
Wherever he could sleep.
10
But you guys werent together?
11
Never. We didnt sleep together.
12
And youre saying that you picked him up from Publix last night?
13
Yes ma'am.
14
How did you come to be in possession of the car?
15
He told me to go pick it up cause he said it was parked here, I have a key and he
16
has a key.
17
Where did you pick it up from?
18
I picked it up from West (Inaudible).
19
Do you know where on West (Inaudible)?
20
Um the address is 205, (inaudible).
21
205
22
Thats why I gave the officer that as my home address cause its the only one I
can remember cause I dont wanna go to jail cause Im homeless.
23
24
So you picked up the vehicle from 205 West (Inaudible)?
25
Yes.
13
And then you went to which Publix to pick him up?
The one on Hiawassee after Metro West Boulevard. By SunTrust Bank, Taco
Bell.
And what time did you pick him up?
8:30.
And what was he wearing when you picked him up?
He was wearing (inaudible), a white hoodie (crying) with black stripes, black and
bluish stripes and like really dark gray jeans (inaudible).
Whats his phone number do you know?
10
8 1 3
11
12
3 9 4
13
14
3 9 4 7.
15
Is that his cell phone?
16
Yeah.
17
And whats your phone number?
18
I dont know it.
19
What kind of phone do you have?
20
A Nokia, uh (inaudible).
21
And whos your provider?
22
AT&T.
23
Whos your phone is name? Is the phone in your name
24
Yeah.
25
your moms name?
14
Its in my name; its a throw away cell phone.
(Inaudible)
Its a prepaid cause I dont have the money for a plan phone.
4
5
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Q
Okay so you pick him up from Publix and yall go, he directs you to this
community. Uh what did he tell you to do?
What did he tell me to do, he said heres my parents house, pull over.
Okay were back to the parents house
(Inaudible) parents house but I had a feeling, like I told, like I said I had a, I didnt
10
know, I had a feeling he was doing something illegal.
11
12
Whyd you have that feeling?
13
Cause I get this gut feeling every time something bad happens.
14
So what happen once you got there?
15
We got there; he got out the car and approached that house I was parked in front
16
of. He always made it seem as though he came from money so it didnt like
17
throw me off at all.
18
Do you remember the address that you were parked in front of?
19
It was some big blue house.
20
Anything about the house, other than big blue, stand out?
21
The door was a arch.
22
Arch or orange?
23
Arch.
24
Arch.
25
15
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
What would, what did, how did yall get in the gate?
It wasnt, we were in Courtleigh Park.
You were, okay Court
(Inaudible) not gated.
Courtleigh?
Courtleigh Park, yeah, subdivision. Anything else about that house?
(Inaudible)
10
No vehicles or anything like that?
11
No.
12
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
13
Okay. When he gets out did
14
He approaches the house.
15
Im saying did he have a gun, did he
16
Like I say I never heard of a gun. Never (inaudible) of any gun.
17
Okay about what time, if yall, if you picked him up about 8:30, what time you
18
think you dropped him off?
19
It was about 9.
20
Nine. Okay and he gets out, what do you do?
21
I just, I like leave the area?
22
And you go where?
23
I go to the back of the house to take a piss.
24
So you get out of the car, you leave it parked right there in front?
25
16
house? Youre not watching the back door for him?
2
3
You go around to the rear of the house to take a leak. Youre not casing the
Im not watching anything, I swear on my grandfathers grave I was taking a piss.

I had pissed like four times since in your custody, I pee a lot.
Okay. So then youre confronted when youre out there in the yard?
Yes I got scared so I drove off.
The gentleman comes outta the house or?
He (inaudible).
White guy, black guy?
10
White elderly gentleman.
11
12
What did he say to you?
13
Did you see that kid that got outta your car? I was like Yeah he went to his
14
parents house (inaudible), hes like No he approached my car and I ran that
15
way. I was like What do you mean he approached your car, I saw him go
16
towards the door.
17
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
18
19
Okay. And so then uh what did you do after that, after having the conversation
with this guy?
20
I just drove away.
21
You get back in the car
22
I drive
23
and you drive, did you, do you leave the uh, uh complex there?
24
Yes.
25
And go where?
17
I just walked, I parked (inaudible).

Where did you park at?
Exactly where they found me, some random driveway. And I just walked away
cause he told me, (inaudible) instructed.
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Okay youre, youre saying that he told you, yall are conversating this time over
the cell phone?
10
Are you talking or are you texting?
11
Were talking.
12
Okay and you tell him that some white guy told you that uh he had saw him
13
I was like What did you do, he said Go park the car and just walk away. And I
was just doing as instructed cause Im scared of him.
14
15
(Inaudible), you dont seem to be a nave person to me. I mean you dont seem
like youre a person thats gonna be told something and not understand
16
17
(Inaudible)
18
whats going on? I mean
19
This man is gentle, good when he wants to be but yet he can be (inaudible).
20
I cant hear you.
21
Im scared
22
I cant hear you.
23
I said hes gentle when he wants to be but he can be a devil in his own way.
(Inaudible) cause he wouldnt get off of me.
24
25
Okay.
18
I told my mom that I wouldnt go through what she went through.
You, it, you strike me as a person thats not stupid okay.
(Inaudible)
So dont, dont play with our
Im not playing stupid
I, I mean the fact that
Hes dead
a guy, a guy tells you, youre in his back, youre in this, in somebodys back
yard, a guy tells you I just saw your buddy that got out your car approach my car,
10
what do you think is going on?
11
12
You get on the phone with your boyfriend and he tell you to park the car and walk
away, whats going on?
13
14
15
I, I dont know whats going on.

16
You already said you knew something was up.
17
I knew something was up when yall came up to me and was like hey uh
18
somebody got outta your car and came to my car. What I first think is why is he
19
at this mans car? Why is he looking in this mans car and like why is this man
20
approaching me?
21
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
22
23
From the time you drop him off at about 9 until the police contact you, how long
you think it was.
24
Twenty minutes or so.
25
Twenty minutes or so.
19
Yes sir.
Youre talking to him on the phone (inaudible) twenty minutes?
Yeah. I wasnt talking (inaudible), I told you man I was trying to (inaudible).
Well tell me this, why would he, if he told you to park the car and get out, why
would he be calling you when the deputys with you, asking you to pick him up?
5
6
He didnt know where I was, he was trying to
He told you to park the car and get out of it.
Yeah he told me to park and walk
Okay so you parked the car and got out of it.
10
He told me to park the car and walk and try to get to his location which was the
gated (inaudible), I didnt realize he was (inaudible)
11
12
Again
13
been shot and dead in the gated.
14
Again you know this area.
15
I dont.
16
I been here twenty two years, I, you know the streets, you know more about this
17
area.
18
Cause I have to remember a lot of things.
19
Okay when have you been through that neighborhood?
20
Ive never been through that neighborhood, ever in my life.
21
22
But yet you know the streets. Thats my area; I worked that area for nine years
23
(Inaudible)
24
and I dont even know the streets.
25
What streets?
20
You said Courtleigh Park, Apopka Vineland, all those subdivisions
Yeah Apop, Apopka is the main road, Courtleigh, I
I, I get that but Im trying to tell you that Ive worked that area exclusively for the
last nine years and I dont know the streets as well as you do.
4
5
I have to know things.

(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
I know and we wanna know how you know those things. You
Cause I, when Im driving I dont like to get lost.
Im saying when are yall driving through here? When are you driving through
there? When did you drive
10
11
I never, like I said I have never drove here till tonight. I only, I, the only street I
12
know for a fact is Apop, Apopka Vineland. I keep wanting to say Acapulco but
13
Apopka Vineland, thats the only one I do know for sure. Courtleigh Park, I
14
remember seeing a sign as I drive in, its this big ass, excuse me, I dont like
15
cussing in front of (inaudible). Its a big sign and it says Courtleigh Park, thats all
16
I can remember, I dont know subdivisions, all I know is he called me and like Im
17
at West Minister and something and Im like Where is that and I didnt know
18
where it was. I didnt know I was in a gated community until you guys told me.
19
20
So he called you and told you that he was at West Minister, to come get him?
21
Yeah. He said Walk to (inaudible).
22
23
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
Q
24
25
Okay lets go back to your text messages on your phone, what are those text
messages gone show when I pull those text messages off your phone?
21
And you know Ima pull them up.
I know. Today (inaudible) messages. Where are you, I dont know what hes
fricking said to me. He didnt send anything to me, I was just like How, like
Where are you, Why is there a sheriff riding by me. The sheriff is going.
So youre telling him the sheriff is gone?
Cause he told me let him know if any police come. I, like I said, I did as
instructed. He is the only person I do know down here and.
But Im saying for, I mean like I say youre, youre not nave.
10
Somebody tell you to watch for the police
11
No Im not
12
and call, and tell, let them know
13
They say somebody watch, somebody say watch for the police
14
15
you really think Im gonna stand watch for, I dont wanna be involved with no
police thats why I was trying to get out of the area. (Inaudible)
16
17
(Inaudible)
18
then my dumb butt, listen, then my dumb butt walked back in that area cause I
19
was trying to find my (inaudible) just to find if hes dead. I just (inaudible), just
20
take me away, like I cant do this anymore, I just wanna get somewhere where I
21
can lay the fuck down, I got a headache, Im in too much shock
22
But understand
23
me tomorrow.
24
understand something, if he tells you watch the, the, let, to tell him when the
25
police are coming or gone
22
(Inaudible). If he tells me to watch for the police Im not gonna watch for the
police. I
2
3
But you did.
I wasnt watching for the police.
You sent a text
I was watching for him. Text messages were showing that I was keeping an eye
on the police.
Thats all the information I do keep an eye on the police cause I dont like them
10
myself.
11
12
Cause I know I have a warrant in Maryland so, which I wanna like get over my
13
Florida mess, get my mom to come get me, take me down, outta state, Im ready
14
to go home, like I said Im just done with this interview, Im done. I want a lawyer.
15
Ive already said too much, I dont give a fuck. I just wanna lay down, I need
16
(inaudible).
17
18
(Inaudible)
19
Okay.
20
Matter of fact I waive my rights for a lawyer. I waive them cause I just wanna get
21
this shit done (inaudible).
22
(DETECTIVE PHELAN)
23
24
Alright.
(PAUSE)
25
23
Im just fucking cold. Shit over with. (Inaudible, whispering). (Whispering). Can I
use the bathroom? (Inaudible). Can you call my mother?
Not right now, no.
How long will that be before I can?
I dont know let me talk to the other detective and let you know.
(PAUSE)
(ERICA IN THE ROOM ALONE, TALKING TO HERSELF)
10
(Inaudible, whispering)
(CONVERSATION ENDED)
11
Erica I need you to take your (inaudible) off for me and (inaudible). Thank you.
12
Its cold in here.
13
We have no way of adjusting the building temperature, completely done by our
14
maintenance personnel.
15
Do you know when I can call my mama?
16
Were still discussing it right now dear. Ill let you know.
17
Alright.
18
(PAUSE)
19
(ERICA IN ROOM ALONE, TALKING TO HERSELF)
20
(Inaudible, whispering). Ill do my time here then Im going back home to mommy.
21
Please let me call my mama. Cause shes the only person that could probably
22
get me to talk to you guys right now, I hope yall know that. Shes the only one.
23
Shit. (Inaudible). Im ready to talk to somebody man. I wanna (inaudible). A
24
lawyer cant help me now. I know you all heard that. Come in here and, and talk
25
to me. I just need my mama and a cigarette and Ill be fine. (Inaudible,
24
whispering). (Inaudible) you know, Im all alone, nowhere to go. (Inaudible)
going to jail for a crime that I did not commit. (Inaudible). Please just let me call
my mama. I need my mama.
(CONVERSATION ENDED)
(UNKNOWN MALE)
Good morning.
Good morning.
Deputy (Inaudible) here to take your um, Im getting your fingerprints.
Can anybody tell me (inaudible)?
10
I dont know.
11
(Inaudible)
12
I dont know.
13
I like what do I get to, dont I have some kind of rights with his body?
14
I, I dont have any answers for you whatsoever.
15
(Inaudible) to go let me call my mama.
16
What did I just tell you?
17
I know I wasnt talking to you, I know they can hear me. Like everybody forgets
that I (inaudible) so (sigh) lets get this done and over with.
18
19
Gotta be able to log into it first.
20
So cold. Thats another thing I dont like about them, they trying to make me
21
play, they tried to play me as stupid, Oh we cant turn on the building heat. Yall
22
keep these rooms this cold so people will talk.
23
No actually its all regulated by the county.
24
25
25
Yeah. But they also keep this room so cold so people will talk. I dont know
anything, all I know exactly what you guys know. Sheriff is dead and my
boyfriend is dead. Im sorry sir.
(Inaudible).
232 to 233A.
Go ahead.
Keep coming to Ops, mine is not working.
10-9.
10
Keep coming to Ops, mine is not working.
11
Uh give me a (inaudible).
12
(Inaudible)
13
Hey is there anybody else thats 10-8 right now (inaudible)?
14
Give me one second.
15
U2
(Inaudible)
16
(Interview ended)
17
18
19
THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURANCY
20
Signed this______day of_____________________, 2014.
21
22
23
_________________________________________________
DETECTIVE PHELAN, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF
24
25
26
TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF ERICA PUGH
CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE COOK
SARGEANT DUNCAN PARKS
CASE # 14-011907
5
6
(Door closing door opening).
7
8
9
Q.
Erica how you doing?
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
My name is Dave, this is Sergeant Duncan.
10
11
12
(Inaudible) you need some water or anything?
13
14
A.
Cold.
15
Q.
No, youre cold?
A.
(No verbal response)
Q.
Okay.
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Well were here to talk to you about something that happened on
16
17
18
19
20
21
Friday afternoon. Um, can you try to tell me what happened ah, this
22
weekend (inaudible) Friday night?
23
24
25
A.
(Inaudible whispering).
Q.
Today is Mon Tuesday.
1
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
(Inaudible) youre, youre okay Erica, youre awake?
A.
Yeah, Im just really very cold.
Q.
Yeah, yeah is really (inaudible over talking)
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
kind of cold.
3
4
5
6
9
Whats that?
10
A.
(Inaudible) in shock.
Q.
Is what?
A.
Im in shock.
Q.
Youre in shock from, for what?
17
A.
Boyfriend killing a deputy.
18
Q.
Oh, okay.
A.
And killing
Q.
Thats understandable.
A.
(inaudible).
Q.
Yeah, well Im sure, you know Im sure you are.
11
12
13
14
15
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20
21
22
23
24
25
How long did you know him?

2
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
Like a year.
Q.
About a year?
A.
(No verbal response).
Q.
Now (inaudible) arent very good but
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
we, we got to straighten some names out. I understand youve
2
3
4
5
6
been pretty cooperative and telling us and talking to all of us and
10
explaining things to us but ah, we, we need to clarify things
11
(inaudible) is all it is. So if you just get your thoughts together and
12
realize that we got to straighten these things, things out to
13
A.
Am I getting charge with the deputys murder?
Q.
I have no i, idea whats going on with that, I have no idea.
A.
(Sigh).
18
Q.
Would you think you should be?
19
A.
No. I was in their custody.
Q.
Im sorry.
A.
I was in their custody.
Q.
You were in there custody?
A.
14
15
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17
20
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23
24
25
3
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
Well like I said you know more about I dont know any about it to be
honest with you. Just (over talking)
2
3
4
5
6
(Detective Cook)
Q.
(Inaudible over talking).
7
8
9
(Sergeant Parks)
10
11
Q.
So were here to talk to you about something else okay.
12
13
(inaudible) thats all I know about it.
A.
(Inaudible) yes Sir.
Q.
Alright (inaudible) you can help (inaudible) well appreciate it okay
14
15
(hitting on table).
16
17
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Okay good.
18
19
20
I think youre awake now, youre okay but yeah I, I know youre in
21
shock and if you need something just you know just let us know. If
22
you need water or something like that Ill be glad to go get you that or
23
a coke or something like that.
24
25
A.
I dont need anything.
4
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
Okay.
Okay well Detective Cook got some questions for you.
3
4
5
(Detective Cook)
6
7
Q.
Okay (inaudible) Friday night um
A.
(Inaudible) been rude, take off my (inaudible).
9
10
11
(Sergeant Parks)
12
13
Q.
(Laughing).
14
15
(Detective Cook)
16
17
Q.
Whats that?
18
A.
Let me stop been rude and take my (inaudible).
Q.
Thats okay if, if youre cold thats fine you can keep on (inaudible).
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
But ah, like I said this, this incident particularly happened Friday
19
20
21
22
23
24
night. Um, (inaudible) said that you were in the car with ah, with
does he go by Ben?
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
Q.
Ben, with Ben when Ben did something.
3
Um, so Im trying to get some information from you about that.
4
5
So what happened Friday, what were you doing Friday night?
6
7
A.
I dont know, I really dont honestly.
Q.
(Inaudible) you guys were in Maryland and then you came down
hanging out in Daytona then you came over, came over here from
10
Day, from Daytona. How long did you come over here from
11
Daytona, how long ago?
12
A.
I dont know.
Q.
Its been a year, six months, two weeks?
A.
A couple of months.
17
Q.
A couple of months?
18
A.
Q.
Okay.
13
14
15
16
19
20
21
Um, is there a significant event, like was it before or after the new
22
year?
23
24
25
A.
It was before (inaudible) after something).
Q.
Right around there?
6
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
Q.
Okay.
3
4
So two months or so.
Um, so what you guys been doing since youve been down here,
where are you staying at?
7
8
9
A.
Here (inaudible).
Q.
Here (inaudible) sleeping in the car, sleeping in hotel rooms, sleeping
10
on friends couches (inaudible) place?
11
12
13
14
A.
A little bit of everything.
Q.
A little bit of everything?
A.
Q.
Okay.
15
16
17
Um
18
19
A.
(Inaudible) wouldnt have (inaudible) place (inaudible).
20
Q.
You dont have a place you dont have a place yet?
A.
Q.
Okay.
21
22
23
24
25
Once (inaudible) you move into a new place you turn it get yourself
established and (inaudible) place yet, nothing wrong with that. So,
7
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
so what you guys been up to, what youve been, youve been up
about doing?
A.
Friday (inaudible whispering) Orange County.
Q.
Okay.
4
5
6
When did you get arrested?
7
8
9
A.
Thursday morning.
Q.
Thursday morning and when did you get out?
A.
Friday evening.
Q.
Friday evening okay it was (over talking).
A.
Oh, no.
Q.
(Clearing throat).
A.
It (inaudible) on Friday evening, it was like really, really late Friday, it
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
was like almost Saturday morning (inaudible).
18
19
Q.
It was Saturday morning?
20
A.
I was waiting (inaudible) to go through.
Q.
Okay.
21
22
23
24
So you were arrested Thursday, you said Thursday morning?

A.
Yes.
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Is that when you were arrested under the false name that you gave?
A.
Yes Sir.
Q.
Okay.
3
4
5
6
7
8
(Detective Cook)
9
10
Q.
11
12
13
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
What (inaudible over talking) what name was that?
A.
Marian.
17
Q.
Whats the full name that he gave?
18
A.
I dont know
Q.
You
A.
something.
Q.
you dont know what he gave?
A.
14
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25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
(Detective Cook)
Q.
It was ah, I think it was actually Wednesday that you were arrested.
A.
Oh, I dont know.
Q.
(Inaudible) and thats understandable I mean you know (inaudible).
3
4
5
6
So you said you got arrested
7
8
A.
I got out Thursday then.
Q.
So you got out like really late Thursday into Friday morning?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Okay.
9
10
11
12
13
14
So thats (inaudible) one day out, thats not a big deal. Its
15
understandable.
16
A.
Im sorry.
18
Q.
Its okay.
19
A.
Im just
Q.
I, I understand, you got a whole lot in your plate right now, a whole lot
17
20
21
22
23
24
25
of stuff happened and its youre probably tired and cold and
everything. So I, I completely understand. One day, one day off is
not a big deal. Um, okay so (inaudible) so you get out of jail you said
late Thursday night into Friday morning?
10
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
Q.
And then what did you guys do Friday?
A.
I went to sleep.
Q.
Okay.
A.
We went to an abandon home, has a couch, a pull up couch, I just
3
4
5
6
7
went to sleep.
8
9
Q.
Okay.
A.
I didnt want to deal with any more drama (crying).
Q.
Thats understandable, nobody wants to deal drama.
A.
I dont, I dont recall what he did (inaudible over talking).
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
(Sergeant Parks)
17
18
Q.
and you know.
19
20
Erica, Erica let me stop (inaudible) you know obviously we, we know
A.
I really dont, I fell asleep (over talking).
Q.
Erica, Erica, Erica, Erica please, please work with me okay.
A.
(Sigh).
Q.
Were trying, were trying to make this as easy as possible for you.
21
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1
2
A.
I dont (inaudible over talking).
Q.
Erica listen to what Im saying, Im not talking (inaudible) listen to
what Im saying okay. The Detective asked you some questions
okay, what you need to do is be work right and, and straight forth
right now, we already know. Now the question is, is we need some
questions answered, but we already know what happened. Now if
you want to be (inaudible) is fine, thats what we (over talking)
8
A.
Q.
we appreciate that. So (inaudible over talking)
A.
Q.
Erica, Erica.
A.
I know this, I know exactly what youre saying (over talking)
Q.
Listen
A.
I need to help myself (over talking)
19
Q.
Right and, and Ill
20
A.
and help you (inaudible over talking).
Q.
well like your help, but you need to be honest with us (over
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
21
22
talking).
23
24
25
A.
But Im, Im in shock I dont remember
Q.
Erica.
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1
2
A.
anything (over talking).
Q.
Erica, Erica.
A.
I, I remember (inaudible over talking).
Q.
(Inaudible) okay.
A.
(Inaudible).
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
(Detective Cook)
Q.
So on so Friday morning.
A.
Sorry I didnt mean to cut you off.
Q.
Okay.
12
13
14
15
So Friday morning you wake up and you go, got to sleep in an
16
abandon, abandon house
17
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
the pull out couch right?
A.
Q.
So you wake up and what you guys do?
A.
We go to Target.
Q.
Okay, you go to Target.
A.
I started my period.
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21
22
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
Q.
Okay.
A.
Thats not of you all business but
Q.
Its okay.
A.
and I had to get (inaudible over talking).
3
4
5
6
7
8
(Sergeant Parks)
9
10
11
Q.
Im sorry I cant Im over here I cant (inaudible).
A.
I started my period so I had to go to Target and get underwear and
12
pads.
13
14
15
16
(Detective Cook)
Q.
Okay.
18
A.
Then.
19
Q.
Which Target did you guys go to?
A.
Um, by the Florida Mall.
Q.
Florida Mall okay.
17
20
21
22
23
24
Alright and yo did that what time, lunch time what, what time, what
time did you wake up?
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
We wake up at like, like (inaudible).
Q.
(Inaudible).
A.
We woke up like twelve noon, one oclock we (over talking)
Q.
Okay somewhere around there.
A.
the, the house until like three oclock (inaudible) always slow.
Q.
Okay, alright.
2
3
4
5
6
9
So you guys get up you go to Target and get some stuff for you.
10
11
Then what do you guys do.
12
13
14
A.
We drive.
Q.
Okay.
15
16
17
(Sergeant Parks)
18
Q.
Erica honey Im Erica I cant yeah I cant hear you (over talking).
A.
We drive and
19
20
21
22
23
24
(Detective Cook)
Q.
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Stop, Erica stop (inaudible) and just tell us the truth, what happened
come on.
4
5
6
(Detective Cook)
7
8
Q.
Where you guys drive to?
9
10
11
12
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
13
14
Youre thinking too hard, youre thinking too much about (inaudible
over talking).
A.
I ah
Q.
Come on.
15
16
17
18
19
(Detective Cook)
20
A.
Last night I just
Q.
Okay.
A.
(inaudible).
Q.
Where did you guys ride to after Target?
21
22
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
I dont remember, I really dont.
Q.
Okay.
3
Did they get in the car with you guys?
4
5
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Did just pick anybody up?
A.
Holy shit I know what youre talking about.
Q.
Okay.
A.
(inaudible) I (inaudible over talking).
Q.
(Inaudible) what happened?
A.
He tried to rob this guy
Q.
Okay.
17
A.
and we just (inaudible).
18
Q.
Okay, well tell what happened with him, where, where did you guys
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
19
picked him up?
20
21
22
A.
He picked him up in front of his house.
Q.
Okay.
23
Where was that?
24
25
A.
Um, Harbor Heights.
17
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
Harbor Heights okay.

So (inaudible) what this guy look like?
3
4
5
(Sergeant Parks)
6
7
Q.
Harbor Heights is that off of (inaudible) Road?
A.
(Inaudible) Hiawassee (inaudible).
Q.
Hiawassee (inaudible).
9
10
11
12
13
14
(Detective Cook)
Q.
15
Okay.
What this guy looked like?
16
17
A.
He had dreads.
18
Q.
He had dreads (inaudible).
A.
And he is black.
Q.
A black guy?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Like about
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
(Sergeant Parks)
3
Q.
Erica (inaudible) Im sorry (inaudible over talking)
A.
about like
Q.
speak up (inaudible).
A.
five ten maybe or so.
4
5
6
9
10
11
(Detective Cook)
12
13
Q.
So you picked him up, what you guys picked him up for?
14
15
Okay, okay.
A.
Marihuana.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
A.
Q.
Who was, who was buying did you guys go buy or did he go buy?
A.
We were buying.
Q.
(Inaudible).
A.
He, Ben was buying (inaudible).
Q.
Ben was buying okay.
16
19
20
21
22
23
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25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Okay, okay.
A.
But next thing you know I turned around and then and Ben has
3
4
(inaudible) this poor little boys face.
5
6
7
8
9
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Erica Im sorry I cant hear you honey please (inaudible over talking).
A.
Ben has the gun to this poor boy face.
10
11
12
13
(Detective Cook)
14
Q.
Okay.
A.
Im just like what are you doing.
18
Q.
So whos driving?
19
A.
Im driving at this point.
Q.
Okay.
A.
And Im like shaking out of my skin.
Q.
Is Ben in the passenger seat, in the (inaudible) seat?
A.
Passenger seat.
15
16
17
20
21
22
23
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25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
Okay.
And thi guy is in the back seat?
3
4
A.
Q.
Okay.
A.
And ah, he is like give me your phone and everything, Im like give
6
7
this boy his phone back, give this boy his phone back, give him
everything back. And he is like no.
9
10
11
Q.
Okay.
A.
So we drive away, after we dropped him off by the (inaudible) and
12
then.
13
14
15
16
Q.
By the (inaudible) whats that.
A.
Gas station.
Q.
Oh, okay.
A.
And then he throws the phone, his wallet and everything out of the
17
18
car and we just
19
20
Q.
After he was already out, after this guy was out of the car?
A.
Q.
So be threw the stuff out of the window.
A.
Out of the window.
Q.
Where did he throw the stuff out the window?
21
22
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
underneath.
2
3
We were going over some kind of over pass it had like thrub, bushes
Q.
Okay.
4
5
So is it like off, like in the, in the highway or something it was
underneath or just it was like a bridge?
A.
It was just some bridge (inaudible) bushes (inaudible) underneath it.
Q.
Okay.
8
9
10
So you guys dropped him off at a Mobil gas station and then like the
11
first how far did you guys drive before you chuck stuff out the
12
window?
13
A.
A couple of miles.
Q.
A couple of miles?
A.
Q.
Okay.
14
15
16
17
18
19
Do you remember if it was like the first bridge you got to or?
20
21
22
A.
It was like the third.
Q.
Third bridge?
A.
Q.
Okay.
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
Every other one he was like no, Im not going to throw it here, Im not
going to do it here. And then he would give some bogus ass excuse
of why not he (inaudible).
Q.
Why he (inaudible) going to throw this off?
A.
Yeah and I was like why didnt you just give it back to him; he is not
5
6
7
going to do anything to us. He is out here for the same reason you
are which is to make a little bit of money (inaudible) so (inaudible)

given him his stuff back, I dont think he would call the police
(inaudible) trying to flag down a police officer. But it (inaudible).
10
11
Q.
Okay.
12
Did you (inaudible) gun?
13
14
15
A.
At that point I did (door opening).
Q.
Okay.
16
So where did he get that gun from?
17
18
A.
I dont know like I said this is the first time I ever seen it.
Q.
Okay.
A.
And I told him (inaudible) get away and I dont want to see it again.
Q.
Okay.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
And you told him right after it?

A.

23
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
And what did he do with the gun?
A.
As far as Im concern he locked it away.
Q.
Where did he (inaudible)?
A.
(Inaudible) locked box.
Q.
In a lock box, wheres the locked box?
A.
In the abandoned house.
Q.
In the abandoned house?
A.
2
3
4
5
6
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Where is the abandoned house at?
17
A.
Um, West Moreland.
18
Q.
And this locked box is there now?
A.
Yeah the locked box should be there but obviously the gun wasnt.
16
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
(Detective Cook)
Q.
Was it a locked box that was already at the house or did you guys
bring it into the house?
24
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
the lock and he got a new one for it.
2
3
It was already there, he just got a new lock for it because he broke off
Q.
Okay.
4
Like a safe or what kind of?
5
6
A.
It was like when you put a pad lock on, like (over talking).
Q.
Oh, okay.
7
8
9
Like a trunk or something like that?
10
11
12
Q.
Yeah.
A.
Okay.
13
Like a (inaudible) foot locker things?
14
15
16
Q.
Yes.
A.
Okay.
Q.
Alright.
17
18
19
So where do you think he got that gun from?
20
21
22
A.
(Inaudible) I dont know.
Q.
How many times have you seen it like prior to that?
A.
Never.
23
24
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
The first time I seen it was tried to (inaudible) homeboy Denzell he
was like you know he, he, he (inaudible) he aint do anything
(inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
5
How many times have you met Denzell prior to that?
6
7
A.
Once.
Q.
Once.
8
9
10
And what was that for (door closing)?
11
12
13
14
A.
He was walking somewhere so I gave him a ride.
Q.
So Denzell was walking somewhere and you gave him a ride?
A.
And Ben asked him if he knew who it was (inaudible)...and
15
(sniffles) so Denzell gave us his phone number.
16
17
Q.
18
Okay.
And then who called up who on Friday?
19
20
21
A.
He made me call.
Q.
You called uh Denzell?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And said heywhat did you say to him?
22
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
Hey my boyfriend wants an ounce(inaudible)and I was like youre
retarded, I kept saying it over and over again, youre retarded youre
a fucking retard, you need to(inaudible) just stop this bullshit.
4
5
6
(Sergeant Parks)
Q2. How much does an ounce cost nowadays?
8
9
A.
He was trying to get an ounce of (inaudible) which would have

(inaudible) like $260.
10
11
12
13
14
15
(Sergeant Parks)
Q2. Two hundred and sixty bucks?
Q.
Did he have that kind of money on him?
17
A.
I dont know (over talking)
18
Q.
So how much, how were, I mean how were you guys going to pay for
16
19
it?
20
21
22
A.
(Inaudible) thats the whole point he wasnt trying to pay for it.
Q.
Right, so how is he going to try to get it?
A.
Rob him. That was like, he wanted the drugs
23
24
25
(Inaudiblewhispering)...I was cursing him out, after we dropped
27
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
(inaudible)I was beating on him, I was hitting him, I was like what
the fuck? (Inaudible) us in more trouble than we want to be like
(Detective Cook)
4
5
Q.
So when you called up Denzell, when, when Ben made you call
Denzell to uhtry to set up the, to buy marijuana you knew Ben
didnt have that money?
A.
Yes Sir.
Q.
And the only way he was going to get that money or get the drugs
9
10
was by what?
11
12
A.
I dont know cause I have the Taser in my purse was in the car. I
13
thought he was going to tased him or something rob him, I knew he
14
was going to rob him but I didnt know how.
15
Q.
(Um-huh affirmative)
A.
Until I see him with the gun, but I didnt physically see
16
17
18
19
20
21
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Im sorry I didnt (inaudible)you knew, you said, you said what?
A.
I knew he was going to rob him but I didnt know he was going to do it
22
23
24
25
with what I thought he was going pepper spray him cause I have a lot
of things to protect myself.
28
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
Q.
Okay.
A.
Im a young female and I need to stay protected.
Q.
Right.
A.
So I have a taser and a pepper spray. As far as I concern I thought
3
4
5
6
he was going to pepper spray him, searched his pockets for
(inaudible) and search his pockets the uh
8
9
10
(Detective Cook)
11
12
13
Q.
A.
I didnt know he was going to pull up the gun and of course Im the
one driving so Im facing straight ahead.
14
15
Q.
A.
(Inaudible) see the gun cause I have to glance over and his hand is
16
17
under his
18
19
Q.
Kind of like this looking back, like that?
A.
Like that.
Q.
What did Denzell say when this was going on what was he saying?
A.
Man dont shoot me, dont shoot me Im likeIm thinking the same
20
21
22
23
24
25
thing please dont shoot this kid, please dont shoot this kid, please
donthes not worth anything(inaudible)chargeshes not
29
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
worth this stop it, commit suicide, cant own up to it
(inaudiblecrying)and I have all these charges all on me. (Crying
and sobbing) My biggest (inaudible) right now finding a man
(inaudible)man enough to fucking take what hes done, all that shit
is about to fall on me (inaudible).
6
7
8
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
10
Lets go back to, lets go to his house real quick, ah, the house is
there anything else in his lockbox?
11
A.
No Sir.
Q.
Anything else we should know about there at the house?
A.
No Sir.
Q.
(Inaudible) okay.
A.
Everything he (over talking).
19
Q.
Tell me again; describe what street is his house on?
20
A.
West Morgan is an orange house (over talking)
Q.
West Morgan.
A.
orange like
Q.
Orange house?
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
21
22
23
24
25
30
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Okay this is West Morgan, where, whereabouts is that? What part of
town, what, what, whats the main street, is it off of (inaudible over
talking)?
(Detective Cook)
5
6
Q.
What (Inaudible)?
A.
Off of Old Winter Garden, (sigh) its a subdivision.
8
9
10
(Sergeant Parks)
11
12
13
14
Q.
Old Winter Gar whats the subdivision name?
A.
West Morgan.
Q.
West Morgan, okay. What street is the house on?
A.
West Morgan.
Q.
Okay, you said its an orange house?
A.
Orange (inaudible) house (inaudible)as you guys could tell
15
16
17
18
19
everything was in the car.
20
21
Q.
Yeah, how did you get in the house?
A.
(Inaudible)wide open.
Q.
Yeah we got a lot of houses like that so you know
22
23
24
25
so(inaudible)you went through the back door?
31
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
We just went through the back door, we basically changed the locks
cause I didnt want; I was scared that somebody would try to...I
knew
Q.
Is it locked now?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And how did you get into the house?
A.
I have a key.
Q.
And wheres that key?
A.
On the keys to the car keys.
Q.
Okay.
A.
And itscan I see your pen real quickand a piece paper
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
(inaudible)?
16
17
Q.
18
Yeah (inaudible).
What do you got, what are you going to do for us?
19
20
21
A.
Im just going to draw the shape of the key because its like
Q.
Oh its all right.
22
23
24
25
(Detective Cook)
Yeah thats (inaudible).
32
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
Its like this oval key, its like a long oval key and it goes down
2
3
4
5
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
(Inaudible).
A.
its a master key, we bought it out of Target.
Q.
Okay, alright.
9
10
11
(Detective Cook)
12
13
Q.
And how far down is his, is his house?
14
15
Okay.
A.
16
You go straight down when you get around the corner then you start
to go up the hill and its your first house after you (inaudible)
17
18
Q.
(Inaudible)
19
A.
Okay. Umyou go up the hi you go up the
20
hill(inaudiblewhispering).right
21
22
Q.
23
24
25
Okay.
How many garage doors?
A.
Its got one boarded up cause it looks like somebody came in already
like (inaudible) all the appliances and I think thats
33
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
Okay.
Is it a double garage door or a single garage door?
3
A.
A double garage; one boarded up.
Q.
Okay so is two, two stalls like two doors and one is boarded up?
A.
One boarded up.
Q.
Okay.
A.
(Inaudible)it looks like somebody knock the hell out of the garage
4
5
6
9
10
door.
11
12
13
Q.
Okay.
A.
Im sorry (inaudible).
Q.
Uh huh (affirmative) (inaudible).
A.
(Crying)it looks like somebody had backed up their truck into the
14
15
16
17
door
18
19
Q.
Uh huh (affirmative).
20
A.
the door is completely...
Q.
Just demolished?
A.
like its completely off.
Q.
Yeah.
21
22
23
24
25
34
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
up
2
3
And ah, it was already like this when we get there, it was boarded
Q.
A.
and the back door was left wide open.
Q.
Okay.
A.
(Inaudible) in there and we (inaudible) pull out couch, I was like we
4
5
6
7
8
could sleep here for a couple of days.
9
10
11
12
13
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Erica let me ask you something I dont quite understandBen Ben
14
robbed this guy and then he go down the street and throw the stuff
15
out the window. What was the purpose of doing that?
16
A.
17
I dont know I think he was trying to prevent the police being called, I
was like youre dumb(inaudible)the police are going to be call
18
anyway.
19
20
21
Q.
Okay well he threw the stuff out; did he go through the wallet
A.
No.
Q.
first?
A.
No.
22
23
24
25
35
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
out?
2
3
So there could have been $500 dollars in the wallet, he just threw it
A.
There wasnt anything in the wallet.
Q.
How do you, how do you know?
A.
Because he was like I dont have anything in there, I dont have
4
5
6
7
anything in there
8
Q.
(Inaudible).
A.
and he opened it like regularly.
Q.
Who did, who was doing this?
A.
Ben.
Q.
Ben.
A.
Ben opened it.
Q.
So he opened the wallet?
19
A.
But there was nothing in it.
20
Q.
Okay, so he opened the wallet, found there is nothing there then he
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
21
so he did look?
22
23
24
25
A.
He looked but he seeing that there was nothing in there but a debit
card and he was like Im not getting caught up (inaudible) one of his
debit card with.
36
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
assuming?
2
3
So he was hoping that something was going to be in the wallet Im
A.
Yeah (inaudible over talking).
Q.
And there is nothing so thats why he threw it out?
A.
Q.
Okay.
4
5
6
7
8
So this is all when youre driving right?
9
10
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Okay. Uhyou said the victim was uhyou said you saw him trying
11
12
to flag down the police?
13
14
15
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Did you see a was a police there? Did you see a police car? Well
16
how do you know
17
18
A.
He
19
Q.
he was trying, what (inaudible) what is he doing (over talking)?
A.
I seen the Okay, here is the stop light (clearing throat) were
20
21
coming heres the Mobi were coming out to make a right on
22
Hiawassee or Colonial one, one or the other.
23
24
Q.
(Inaudible).
25
37
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
Andthere is the cop sitting there waiting for the light to turn,
(inaudible) him out and he goes try to flag down the cop, the cop
continues to just, didnt stop.
Q.
Okay so he, there was a police officer there.
A.
There was a police officer there.
Q.
And he was trying to flag him down, so you knew he was going to
report it.
9
10
11
A.
I knew.
Q.
Alright.
A.
I knew.
Q.
But you knew so just to make sure I understand this right, you
12
13
14
15
called this victim up, the name Denzell; he thought you were going to
16
buy some marijuana and you picked him up, while youre driving Ben
17
robs him, you know he was going to rob him you just dont know by
18
what means
19
A.
Yeah.
Q.
and then but(inaudible)whether he is going to use a taser, or
20
21
spray but youre saying you didnt know he had a firearm. But then
22
Ben pulls out a firearm, robs him which you knew he was going to be
23
robbed, right?
24
25
A.
Yeah.
38
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
Q.
And then you find out that he he is got nothing in his wallet so you all
let him out where there is a police officer there. And then you drive
off uhand then he dumps his stuff out the window. And that about it
in a nutshell?
A.
Yes Sir.
Q.
Okay, all right well
A.
(Inaudible)absolutely nothing in that wallet and Im pretty sure
Denzell was like oh there was this much money, there was nothing in
10
that wallet, there was absolutely nothing.
11
12
13
Q.
Okay.
A.
When Ben opened it, I look over and glanced, he was like there is
nothing in here Im like all right whatever.
14
15
Q.
Now he did this in the car that you were driving with last night?
A.
(Huh uh (negative).
Q.
This all happen in the same car?
A.
No.
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
(Detective Cook)
Q.
(Inaudible).
A.
Yes Im sorryIm sorry Im trying to think.

39
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
(Sergeant Parks)
3
Q.
Right, same car?
A.
Yes Sir.
Q.
How many different cars youve been in?
A.
Two.
Q.
Two?
4
5
6
9
10
What cars have youve been in?
11
12
A.
A Mitsubishi Lancer and that one.
Q.
This one, what was this one that you were in last night?
A.
Honda Accord.
17
Q.
A Honda Accord.
18
A.
Q.
Where did the Lancer come from?
A.
Lancer (inaudible)I want to sayI dont remember.
Q.
Was it stolen?
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Whose, whose car was it then?
13
14
15
16
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
40
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
It was a rental.
Q.
A rental?
A.
Q.
From where? What rental com?
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Huh?
A.
CarMax.
Q.
CarMax?
2
3
4
5
6
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
(Detective Cook)
Q.
Which CarMax you guys rented from?
A.
I dont know.
16
17
18
(Sergeant Parks)
19
20
Q.
CarMax rents cars?
21
They sell cars, they dont rent cars. CarMax is not a rental car
22
business.
23
24
25
A.
I guessIm not sure(inaudible).
Q.
Who?
41
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
He pops up with this car (inaudible).
Q.
Then he pops up with the car?
A.
He pops up with this car
Q.
Well you dont think he went and bought the car did he or he was
3
4
5
6
going to rent a car? He didnt have the money to rent the car?
7
8
9
A.
He said he rented it.
Q.
He said he rented it? There is a Lancer okay, what happened with
10
the Lancer?
11
A.
Tire blew.
Q.
Andwhere?
A.
He returned it.
Q.
Huh?
A.
He just left it somewhere.
19
Q.
He just left it somewhere? Where did he leave it in?
20
A.
I dont the exact location but is in Doctor Phillips (inaudible over
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
21
talking).
22
23
24
25
Q.
Doctor Phillips area the Lancer (inaudible) dropped off?
(Detective Cook)
Q.
What color is the Lancer?

42
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
Umabout (inaudible) of his pants.
2
3
4
5
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Dark grey?
A.
Q.
Okay.
9
Dark grey Lancer with a tire blown somewhere in Doctor Phillips.
10
11
12
13
(Detective Cook)
Q.
How long did you, did you guys leave it?
A.
A couple of months ago cause
17
Q.
So how soon did you guys get the car you have right now?
18
A.
It was (inaudible)
Q.
Like
A.
it was a while (inaudible over talking).
Q.
It was awhile.
A.
We went back; we went back to public transportation...
Q.
Okay.
14
15
16
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
and we did.
Q.
Okay so the Lancer was a couple of months ago?
A.
That was way (inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
3
4
5
6
So the only car you had recently is the Honda Accord?
7
8
A.
Yeah but he had the Lancer so he put the doughnut on the Lancer
and (inaudible over talking).
10
11
12
13
Q.
When was the last time he had the Lancer?
A.
Two, two weeks ago.
Q.
Okay.
14
So that wasnt a couple of months ago.
15
16
A.
Almost two months ago, Im sorry (whispering).
Q.
Okay.
17
18
19
So two, two, two three weeks, four weeks that he had the Lancer?
20
21
22
A.
Yes Sir.
Q.
And, and where was the Lancer at (inaudible) left it and came back
(inaudible hitting on the table).
23
24
A.
25
44
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
Q.
Was that (inaudible)?
A.
(Clearing throat) Ah, he came back to get it because he was going
to I dont know he was talking stupid. This man is been talking
stupid recently.
5
6
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Erica stay lets, lets stay focus with the Lancer.
A.
(Clearing throat).
Q.
Where was the Lancer when was the last time you were in the
8
9
10
11
Lancer?
12
13
14
15
A.
Coup, couple of weeks ago, three weeks ago.
Q.
And where is it now?
A.
Dr. Phillips, the (inaudible) with the dough, doughnut on it.
Q.
Okay.
16
17
18
(Inaudible) replaced the tire?
19
20
A.
Im like, Im like why.
21
22
Yeah with the doughnut because he was talking about pushing it and
Q.
Okay so you said doughnut so it still operable right?
A.
Is operable.
Q.
So why did he leave it if its operable?
23
24
25
45
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
(Inaudible).
2
3
4
5
(Detective Cook)
Q.
You said he was talking about pushing it in a lake?
A.
Yeah.
6
7
8
Im like what are you doing (inaudible) why (inaudible) push this car
(inaudible).
10
11
Q.
(inaudible) the lake?
12
13
So the car is probably down the road and (inaudible) push it right in
A.
I dont know I, I (inaudible over talking)
14
15
16
17
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
But you figured it out, come on Erica.
19
A.
not a rental, Im sorry (inaudible).
20
Q.
Erica you, you know is not you (inaudible over talking).
A.
18
21
22
23
24
I know is (inaudible over talking).

Q.
Erica, Erica you know is not a rental, come on.
25
46
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
I just cant believe (inaudible) all this shit he is not (inaudible)
A.
charges.
Q.
Erica you Erica you did these things with him, theres free will and
(inaudible) and you knew that Ben (inaudible over talking)
5
6
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
robbed Denzell.
A.
I knew (inaudible).
Q.
You called and (inaudible over talking).
A.
(Inaudible) like I said I, I, I (inaudible) a woman I was (inaudible)
Q.
But
A.
to bed all day.
Q.
(Inaudible over talking)...
A.
I had to (over talking).
19
Q.
on that road.
20
A.
Mad, Im just mad is so fucking so (inaudible) he had to kill himself. I
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
21
have to (inaudible) charges by myself.
22
23
24
25
Q.
Well I guess it is true.
A.
(Cryingsobbing).
Q.
But Erica lets stay focus here.

47
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
Going back to the Lancer okay.

A.
(Inaudible) Dr. Phillips.
Q.
It was, its, its you know it was a stolen car.
A.
No I did not, honestly.
Q.
You know it wasnt a rental car.
A.
I knew it wasnt a rental but
Q.
And he (inaudible).
A.
Thats what I
Q.
Okay.
A.
thats when it popped in my head that it mightve been a rental.
Q.
Okay.
3
4
5
6
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
And then how soon you got rid of the Lancer, then how soon did
18
you get into this Honda?
19
A.
Ah, he got this like two or three days ago.
Q.
Who (inaudible) come from?
A.
I dont know, I was locked up when he, when he got this car.
Q.
And where did he get (inaudible) from?
A.
I dont know.
20
21
22
23
24
25
48
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
Q.
Where do you think it came from?
A.
Honestly I really dont like I said I (inaudible over talking).
Q.
Based on what you know
A.
I was (over talking).
Q.
what do you think, do you think its his car or do you think its an
3
4
5
6
7
stolen car?
8
9
A.
I know, I know is not his car.
Q.
Do you think its a stolen car?
A.
I think so.
Q.
I would think so too.
A.
Because I get locked up, I hop on the first bus
Q.
A.
towards the Florida Mall because I told him thats where I wanted to
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
meet him. And he called me where are you, Im sitting out front in the
19
car and Im like what car, I thought well I hop in the bus he was like
20
oh I just have a car stay there, where are you.
21
22
Q.
(Inaudible).
A.
(Sigh) oh my Jesus, I want to call my mother please, do I have
23
24
25
(inaudible) to do that?
49
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
Q.
Um, how old are you?
A.
Im nine almost nineteen.
Q.
So youre eighteen?
3
4
5
Whats your date of birth?
6
7
A.
02/27/95.
Q.
(Inaudible) hearing you.
A.
02/27/1995 (inaudible over talking).
Q.
02/27/1995?
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
Do you have a drivers license anywhere?
16
17
A.
18
Q.
Nowhere?
A.
Q.
You have an ID card with this anywhere?
A.
Thats why I was like you guys
Q.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
50
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
talking).
2
3
should call my mom because she is the only one (inaudible over
Q.
Whats your moms, whats your moms name?
A.
Caroline Moses.
Q.
Caroline Moses?
A.
Yes Sir.
Q.
Okay.
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
Where she at?
11
12
A.
Down (inaudible) she is not much help to me (over talking).
Q.
Im sorry.
A.
Down by Maryland.
Q.
Maryland (inaudible) whats her phone number?
18
A.
410
19
Q.
410?
A.
896
Q.
896
A.
9935.
Q.
Im sorry I cant hear you?
13
14
15
16
17
20
21
22
23
24
25
51
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
9935.
Q.
9935, okay (sigh) okay dukes ah, anything else, anything else you
want to tell us (inaudible)?
4
5
6
A.
(Inaudible) Sir.
Q.
Erica, Erica look at me.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Is there anything else you want to tell us?
A.
No Sir.
Q.
You sure theres not anything else you want to tell us while were
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
here?
A.
15
16
17
18
(Detective Cook)
Q.
Anything else you can think about the car or anything?
A.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
(Sergeant Parks)
Q.
Erica nothing else has happened this, this past since you got out
of jail besides the robbery of this individual?
52
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
Thats it.
Q.
Are you absolutely sure?
3
4
Think a lot and hard, because theres a reason why Im asking you.
Come on Erica.
A.
(Inaudible) Sir.
Q.
Huh?
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
(Inaudible) way to hard (inaudible) long and hard.
A.
(Inaudible) is the last incident I recall.
Q.
That you recall.
A.
Last night.
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
Every like I said I was in too much shock, I didnt realized what you
17
guys were talking about until you guys pointed to me, like giving me a
18
hint.
19
20
21
Q.
But you picked out somebody.
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
22
23
24
Anybody else was in that car with you besides the Denzell the victim
25
you robbed?
53
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
No Sir.
Q.
Okay.
3
Anything else Detective Cook?
4
5
6
7
(Detective Cook)
Q.
No.
9
10
11
(Sergeant Parks)
12
13
Q.
Okay Erica hang tight were going to sort things out and well be back
with you okay.
14
15
16
A.
Can I use the bathroom?
Q.
Yeah.
17
18
Hold on one second; let me get somebody to come in here with you
19
okay. Ill get somebody to come get you (inaudible).
20
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Okay (door openingdoor closingleft the interview room).
A.
(Sigh).
Q.
(Door opening)
21
22
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
(Inaudible) bathroom.
Q.
(Door closing) (background voices) (door closing) (background
conversation).
4
5
(Talking to someone else) okay, alright (inaudible) work up on that
(inaudible) working. Okay Ill ah (inaudible) and (inaudible).
7
8
Okay.
9
10
And well ah (inaudible) well (inaudible) (door closing).
11
12
A.
13
14
Ah, (inaudible).
He was a bad man mother fucking (inaudible) (sigh) (yawning).
Q.
(Knock on the door), door opening.
15
16
17
A.
Can I talk to (inaudible) Detective (inaudible)?
19
Q.
Im sorry?
20
A.
Can I talk (inaudible) Detective (inaudible).
Q.
Detective Phelan?
A.
Yes.
Q.
I dont know if he is here, give me one second okay
18
21
22
23
24
25
55
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
Okay.
Q.
(Door openingleft interview room).
3
4
(Door opening) sorry, Detective Phelan is not here (door closing)
he is interviewing somebody else right now so you got me.
A.
Ah, um, like I was saying I didnt know (inaudible) until (inaudible)
parked and I see him (inaudible) cars around and around. And then
thats when it hit me (inaudible) this man is about to go car hopping
(inaudible) my dad (inaudible) any (inaudible) caught up (inaudible)
10
and my people would, would ask not to press charges on me. So I
11
didnt approve but, but I couldnt stop him. But who am I (inaudible)
12
to empower a man like 140 pretty strong in health because he just got
13
out prison so Im not supposed to over empowered him, I cant stop
14
(inaudible). And (clearing throat) like I said I didnt realized a deputy
15
was shot until the police officer went to his trunk and pulled out shot
16
gun. I knew something was wrong, I didnt know what. And then
17
(sigh) (inaudible) he shot (inaudible) the detectives told me.
18
19
20
(Detective Moorehead)
21
Q.
22
Okay so you know he was car hopping, did you see him take
anything from any vehicle?
23
24
25
A.
No maam.
Q.
He didnt bring anything back to the car?
56
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1
2
A.
No maam.
Q.
You didnt see him with anything (inaudible)?
A.
(Inaudible).
3
4
5
Like I said I usually just stay in this abandoned house (inaudible). I
dont want anything to deal with like I said Ive been caught
(inaudible) before but I was fucking (inaudible) and I had charges
pressed against me
9
10
11
Q.
Where is this house that youre talking about?
A.
West Morgan.
Q.
Is that the 205 West Morgan that you were talking about?
A.
No.
12
13
14
15
Around the corner, I dont (inaudible).
16
17
Q.
What does the house look like?
18
A.
Is Orange and is like kind of orange is almost like (inaudible) Orange
19
County Sheriff's Office. And its got white trimming everywhere and
20
its got shutter (inaudible). Usually I stay in that house (inaudible)
21
does this I dont want anything to do with (inaudible).
22
23
24
25
Q.
How long have you been staying in that house?
A.
About a week or two.
Q.
Do you have anything in the house that belongs to you?

57
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A.
No maam.
Q.
Nothing at all?
A.
Q.
((Background voice) you guys didnt leave anything there?
A.
The only thing we left behind was a down blanket.
Q.
A down blanket.
1
2
3
4
5
6
9
What color?
10
11
A.
White.
Q.
Where is it going to be located in the house?
A.
He made this (inaudible) behind the night stand.
12
13
14
15
Is like something like this without this one, but its white and he like
16
placed it against the couch and (inaudible) upstairs all the way
17
upstairs in the, the back room. And it could be behind that.
18
19
Q.
Behind the what?
20
A.
The ghetto looking coffee (inaudible).
Q.
Okay, okay (noise in the background).
21
22
23
If youre going into West Morgan is it going to be on the left hand side
24
of the road or the right hand side of the road?
25
58
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
You go straight all the way down until you hit both curves that goes
like this, you go straight out and you turn and (inaudible) second
curve its the house (inaudible). And its the first house (inaudible)
right (inaudible) straight through.
Q.
(Inaudible) story?
A.
Yes maam.
6
7
8
(Inaudible) other question (inaudible) asks me I was, I was in shock, I
dont remember too much shock.
10
Q,
Um, what time did you picked him up?
A.
Eight thirty.
Q.
And what time did you guys get to the sub division?
A.
Nine thirty.
Q.
So what did you do between eight thirty and nine thirty?
18
A.
We stopped at a church had sex.
19
Q.
You remember what church, do you remember?
A.
No.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
20
21
22
Its the one right around the corner.
23
24
Q.
The one thats (inaudible) Park?
25
59
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A.
The one towards maybe another street because I( inaudible) a
lot, so I have to know the street but its on Apop, Apopka going
toward Old Winter Garden.
Q.
So its not the (inaudible) Park.
5
Is it a small little church?
6
7
A.
Yes maam.
Q.
Is it on the same side of the road as (inaudible)?
A.
Yes it is.
Q.
Okay.
A.
(Inaudible) pass (inaudible).
Q.
And you said you parked in front of that house on Chatterley?
A.
Q.
Did you parked anywhere else?
19
A.
20
Q.
Thats the only place that you stopped?
21
A.
Yes maam.
Q.
And obviously both of you guys were out of the car at that time
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
22
23
correct?
24
25
A.
Yes maam.
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Like I said I had to go back, back of the house to take piss. And it
sounds like (inaudible) keys to (inaudible) house but (inaudible) like if
I did (inaudible) he does like (inaudible) anything to (inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
5
And youre saying that you guys didnt come to Orlando until one?
6
7
A.
(Inaudible) a little bit (inaudible).
Q.
Before New Years?
A.
Yes.
8
9
10
11
I, I was (inaudible) shock (inaudible) everything.
12
13
14
Q.
So what else am I missing?
A.
Um, thats it.
Q.
Okay.
15
16
17
What were you guys using before the Honda?
18
19
A.
Public transportation.
20
Q.
Like the bus, taxis, what?
A.
Bus.
Q.
And were you hanging out mainly in that area down there of Old
21
22
23
24
25
Winter Garden Road?

A.
(Inaudible) stay at Park West, like hang out at Park West.

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1
2
Q.
Park West (inaudible apartments?
A.
Up on the park right there.
Q.
Is that Old Winter Garden Road
A.
Yes.
Q.
youre talking about then?
3
4
5
6
7
8
Yes okay.
9
10
A.
sign.
11
12
We werent at physically in the apartments, thats what I see the
Q.
13
Okay.
They (inaudible) the car, the Honda you said he showed up at with
14
that one?
15
16
A.
Yeah (inaudible) and prior to me getting out I called him and
17
(inaudible) me at the mall (inaudible) expecting to get on the bus, he
18
getting on the bus. I get on 37 and I called him and he is like you got
19
to get off right where you are because I have a car. Im like what car
do you have (inaudible) Family Dollar. Again this story (inaudible) on
20
OBT and Gore Street in the corner of OBT and Gore.
21
22
Q.
When, what day was this?
A.
The day I got out which was Thursday, late Thursday evening.
Q.
((Background noises...).
23
24
25
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1
2
The sixth?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Last Thursday?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
3
4
5
6
7
8
So you got out and called him?
9
10
A.
11
And he told me where are you I said Im by the bus (inaudible) the
12
bus, he said get off right where you are and I happened to get off at
13
corner of Gore and OBT because I got on bus 36.
14
Q.
Thirty six?
A.
Yes.
15
16
17
Thirty six or thirty four Im not sure.
18
19
Q.
20
Okay.
So you get off there
21
22
A.
two mc chickens and (inaudible).
23
24
And I go eat in the McDonalds (inaudible) and fries so its (inaudible)
Q.
Okay.
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
He said (inaudible).
2
3
And then I walked back out and Im like where did you get this car.
Q.
To he told you then it was stolen?
A.
Thats when he told me (inaudible). I was like well then I dont want
4
5
6
to be driving round in it (door closing). I told him I dont want to be in
(inaudible).
Q.
What time did you get out of jail?
A.
Around I dont know.
Q.
Was it in the morning, was it in the afternoon (inaudible over talking)?
A.
Late evening.
Q.
Late evening?
A.
Q.
Okay.
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
How late would you say it was?
19
20
A.
It was just about getting darker.
21
I was getting, I was been released before dark. I sat in release for
22
two hours about (inaudible) thirty.
23
24
25
Q.
(Inaudible) okay.
A.
And I didnt meet up (inaudible) him until like (inaudible) thirty.
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1
2
Q.
Okay.
A.
(Inaudible) call him.
Q.
Okay.
3
4
5
How many other times have you gone out with him (noise in the
background)?
7
8
A.
(inaudible) so I was walking and
9
10
(Inaudible) second, but like other times we didnt have any kind of
Q.
What day was the first time you went out with him?
A.
It was (inaudible).
Q.
And where did you guys go?
A.
(Inaudible) like (inaudible) with houses and two (inaudible) some
11
12
13
14
15
kind of bull shit (inaudible) and to stop everything. Im like go there or
16
not go there.
17
18
Q.
you were staying?
19
20
So where the place that you went with him to in reference to where
A.
Um, is actually right across the Street (inaudible) first time (inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
A.
And after that I really didnt go back there again. I told him (inaudible)
21
22
23
24
go to 58 and Im asleep while do this, I dont know (inaudible) or not, I
25
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dont know. I aint breaking the law (inaudible) and I kept telling him
that (inaudible) just sleep here.
Q.
So what were you guys doing with the stuff that he got?
A.
Well it was basically survival.
Q.
Meaning what?
A.
Eat, get the food, get water.
Q.
Okay.
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
How are you liquidating the property that he is taking from these
11
cars?
12
13
14
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Like how are if youre taking a phone, how are you getting rid of
15
these phones to get money to eat and to get water?
16
17
A.
We wouldnt take anything but cash and gift cards.
18
Q.
Only cash and gift cards?
A.
Because I told him people need their um, people need their
19
20
(inaudible) people need everything.
21
22
Q.
Okay, but ah (over talking).
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Go ahead.
23
24
25
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A.
I told him he, he was always like oh but they cant trace to ca
cash and gift cards why he would take (inaudible) because (inaudible)
know what you guys can pick up from the phone any minute.
Q.
Okay.
5
So how were you guys getting into the cars?
6
7
A.
I dont know.
8
He would just go see if it was unlocked (inaudible).
9
10
Q.
So if the cars were locked did you generally go in them?
A.
No, he just walked away.
Q.
(Inaudible) hitting houses?
A.
No I no.
Q.
So there were no, no houses that you were aware of?
A.
That Im aware (inaudible).
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
And he (inaudible) purse in locked car (inaudible) and he would just
19
smash the window. He (inaudible over talking).
20
21
Q.
Will take the whole purse or just the content of the purse?
A.
The purse and
Q.
Where was he dumping the stuff?
22
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
I dont know, (inaudible) like, like I said I just walked around the sub
division, I didnt help, I didnt touch anything, I just walked in the sub
division while he is doing all of this. He will disappear out, out of sight
and I dont know what he does (inaudible).
Q.
So you dont have any idea what he did with any of the stuff
A.
No.
Q.
that he took, if it was a purse, a wallet or whatever?
A.
He just come back with cash and gift cards.
9
10
11
This is putting me away forever man.
12
13
Q.
Anyway come down to it, what were discussing is a property crime.

Thats it. Its items, its stuff that its replaceable, thats it, thats what
14
were discussing.
15
16
A.
(Inaudible crying) making sure (inaudible). He didnt know for sure
17
that (inaudible) because he knows (inaudible) started. But I didnt
18
(inaudible) period.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
So you guys
21
22
A.
Am I getting charge with the sheriff murder?
Q.
Honey that is far out of my (inaudible). Im here specifically to talk to
23
24
25
you about these property crimes that just
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
Ive been trying to think how am I supposed to be charge with it, Im in
the back (inaudible) when it happened. Had no knowledge
(inaudible) so (inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
5
How long have you been Orlando?
6
7
A.
I told you I was (inaudible) a little after the Super Bowl (inaudible)
been here a couple of months.
9
10
11
Q.
Define a couple of months November, December?
A.
We got it was a couple of weeks before (inaudible) a week

(inaudible) before New Years, something like that.
12
13
Q.
Okay.
14
And did you come down here together?
15
16
A.
Q.
So you were here on the 16th when you said he was here a week
17
18
before (inaudible)?
19
20
A.
No.
21
That was (inaudible) it was like (inaudible) Daytona he, he got there
22
before I did and I come back. (Inaudible) took a car (inaudible) we
23
took a car ride with strangers and a (inaudible) to Florida.
24
25
Q.
Okay.
69
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And then you got to Daytona
1
2
A.
Passed Daytona.
Q.
when?
A.
(Sigh) the 23rd. I got there the 23rd and he got there a week from
3
4
5
6
there (inaudible).
7
8
Q.
And then you got in on the 23rd.

And how long did you stay in Daytona?
10
11
A.
Christmas (inaudible) and then we left a couple of days after.
12
13
14
About (inaudible) week (inaudible) wanted to be on the beach for
His body (inaudible) released (inaudible).

Q.
Okay.
15
And then you guys came here to Orlando?
16
17
A.
Yes maam.
19
Q.
Where have you stayed while in Orlando?
20
A.
In this house and other houses, hotels, in the car (inaudible).
Q.
Wha other houses, what other areas?
A.
Just the whole (inaudible) we would find houses that (inaudible) down
18
21
22
23
24
and we would make sure we would be break into them. If they were
25
open they were open, if they were locked we (inaudible). So all in
70
Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
that area we would just search for houses that were vacant
(inaudible).
Q.
(Inaudible)?
A.
Or like (inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
4
5
6
7
So you, you were here in Orlando from a couple of days after
Christmas until obviously now. And you didnt leave any items I any
of the houses that you stayed in. Can you estimate how many
10
houses you guys stayed in?
11
12
13
A.
Two or Three.
Q.
(Inaudible over talking.).
A.
(Inaudible) house the house he wouldnt stay in one house for more
14
15
16
than three nights. But we wouldnt like I said we wouldnt break
17
into any of these houses, they were either left door unlocked or wide
18
open.
19
Q.
20
Do you remember any of the streets of the other houses that you
stayed at?
21
22
A.
most comfortable in.
23
24
25
No, only one I remember (inaudible) because it was the one I felt the
Q.
And why did you feel most comfortable there?
A.
Because it had a pull out couch.

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1
2
Q.
Okay.
A.
(Sigh) I just cant believe (inaudible) fucking (inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
3
4
5
You knew he had the gun?
6
7
A.
robbery (inaudible) thats the very, very (inaudible) a gun and after
that property I told him to (inaudible) that shit away I dont want any
(inaudible). (Inaudible) did he had a locked box with like a pad
10
lock, he locked it away.
11
12
13
I knew (inaudible) gun, the detective shouldve came in here. The
Q.
Where is it now?
A.
The gun?
Q.
The locked box with the pad lock.
A.
Shouldve been in the car, that big trunk.
14
15
16
17
May I get something (inaudible).
18
19
Q.
Absolutely.
20
Okay is there anything else that you can think of?
21
22
A.
Q.
How many times do you think he went out?
A.
(Inaudible) a lot but (inaudible over talking).
23
24
25
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1
2
Q.
They go out every day?
A.
No but like I said half the time I didnt know he was gone until I woke
up and he was there because I told him I didnt want to come. So I
tell him we go after we sleep then hell do whatever the hell he
wanted to do because I cant (inaudible) I cant sleep him (inaudible).
6
(Ah, inaudible crying) he (inaudible) is not (inaudible).
7
8
Q.
What else did he have in the locked box, do you know?
A.
A couple of pairs of his clothes, a map of Orlando and (inaudible) a
9
10
whole bunch of other bull shit (inaudible).
11
12
Q.
How big is this box?
A.
Q.
Pretty big?
A.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
A.
Its a (inaudible) you know one of those (inaudible) (coughing).
Q.
Okay so if you fell asleep and you woke and he wasnt there and he
13
14
15
16
17
20
21
came back, did he generally come back with money and gift cards?
22
23
A.
Q.
Would you say that occurred on a daily basis, every other day?
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
How often are we talking?

A.
Maybe once a week.
Q.
Thats it?
A.
Yeah, thats it (inaudible) because most of the time I dont wake up so
3
4
5
6
I dont wake up like once a week because I had to use the bathroom
and (inaudible) bathroom (over talking).
8
9
10
Q.
So you really have no idea?
A.
I have no idea.
11
I would just wake up and hell be there.
12
13
14
Q.
Okay.
A.
When do you think I can call my mom?
Q.
As soon as we get everything hash out. Im sorry this is a very long
15
16
process obviously.
17
18
A.
Uh huh (affirmative) (inaudible) sitting in here long for like an hour.
Q.
Yeah its 9:30.
19
20
21
So is there anything else that you can think of?
22
23
24
25
A.
No maam.
Q.
Any other descriptions of the houses that you guys stayed in, that you
can recall?
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
1
2
A.
like I said (inaudible) remember those (inaudible) comfortable in.
Q.
But everything else you said was in that general same area and then
he was picking neighborhoods based on how far apart the houses
were, how rich they looked. Now he is picking houses (phone
ringing) because of that (hitting noise)?
6
7
A.
He is picking the neighborhood because of that.
Q.
The neighborhood?
A.
Q.
Okay.
9
10
11
12
So he is picking the neighbor Hood because of that and then as far
13
as you know he was only hitting cars?
14
15
16
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Did he ever talk about going into houses?
17
18
I know you said you dont approve of that, but did he ever talked
19
about it?
20
A.
Q.
Huh uh (negative). ?
A.
I didnt know (inaudible) it was one thing and (inaudible) the car open,
21
22
23
24
25
I did not approved of (inaudible).

Q.
Okay.
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Is there anything else that you remember that he told you or that you
guys discussed or talked about?
A.
No.
Q.
And does your mother know youre down here?
A.
No.
Q.
When was the last time you saw your mother?
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Have you talk to her during that time frame?
A.
I speak with her on the phone and I speak to my baby sister.
Q.
Do you talk to them daily, weekly or monthly?
A.
Weekly.
Q.
How many times a week?
A.
Once or twice.
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
It depends on um, (inaudible) deal with it depended on a lot of things.
20
21
22
Q.
Okay.
A.
(Inaudible) like, it would be
Q.
(Inaudible).
23
24
25
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
like I would call (inaudible) she know, she knows if I been hit by
him, she know if I was depressed, so I would call her when my mood
was in good shape and I wouldnt upset her.
Q.
Okay.
5
And you said you guys chose Florida, why?
6
7
A.
I dont I (inaudible) I just wanted to get out of the cold.
Q.
So you left Maryland to get out of the cold?
A.
(Inaudible crying) (inaudible) he picked it.
Q.
He picked it?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Does he know anyone here?
A.
No, we dont know anybody here, he was the only person I knew.
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
(Inaudible) I just rather go back to Maryland, but now Im
18
(inaudible) probably here (inaudible).
19
20
Q.
me?
21
22
Alright is there anything else that you can think of that you want to tell
A.
No maam.
Q.
Okay.
23
24
25
Im going to go see if the other detective is back and Ill come in.
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1
2
A.
(Inaudible) call my mom.
Q.
Yeah ah, youre going to be first on my list so (inaudible) him, well go
from there.
4
5
6
A.
(Inaudible).
Q.
Okay.
7
Do you want any more water?
8
9
A.
No (inaudible) get like something to eat.
Q.
Okay (door opening).
A.
(Sigh).
Q.
(Door closingleft interview room).
A.
(Talking to herself (inaudible).
Q.
(Door opening) (background voices) (door closing).
A.
(Sigh), (door closing).
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
(Talking with herself (inaudible) my mom (inaudible) thats I can do
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(inaudible) my mom (inaudible) (door opening).
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Q.
Is there a passcode on your phone?
A.
Q.
Is it like a number pass code a whats the?
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
A.
0416.
Q.
So
A.
Can I get that back before I (inaudible)?
Q.
04 what?
A.
Sixteen.
Q.
One six?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
Um, no because it has to be downloaded by Forensics first. So
A.
Oh (inaudible over talking).
Q.
it would be in Evidence.
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Yeah, it would be in Evidence (over talking).
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A.
I just
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Q.
Youre not losing your phone at all.
A.
I just want to see (inaudible) sent me one.
Q.
Thats going to be up to the other detectives.
A.
I just (inaudible over talking).
Q.
Um, do you know if theres a passcode on his phone?
A.
Theres none.
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
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Q.
Not a passcode?
A.
Is just a flip phone there should not be a passcode (background
voices). I just wanted to know what message (inaudible) left me.
Because I know he had (inaudible) like (inaudible) or something, he
could (inaudible) something.
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Q.
How long have you had your phone?
A.
Not long.
Q.
Huh?
A.
Not long ah, I got it January 21st.
Q.
January 21st?
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Okay, let me talk to (inaudible) (door opening door closing, left the
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interview room).
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A.
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(Sigh). (Talking to herselfI dont (inaudible) bodyI just

(inaudible) (inaudible). (Sigh). (Door opening) can I use the
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bathroom (inaudible)?
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Q.
(Knock on the door).
A.
To pee again.
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I want to call my mama.
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I have to use the bathroom again

Q.
(Knocking on door) (door opening).

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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS
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2
A.
Can I use the bathroom again.
Q.
(Inaudible).
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THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY

Signed this______day of_____________________, 2014.
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_________________________________________________
DETECTIVE Cook, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF
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Pugh, Erica/14-011907/02-21-14/OS

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Defendant Interview

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1

TAPED TRANSCRIPT OF ERICA PUGH

CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE DAVID PHELAN

CASE NUMBER 14-012788

DATED CONDUCTED FEBRUARY 11, 2014

DATED TRANSCRIBED FEBRUARY 13, 2014

have to face right now. (crying)

David A. Phelan. Also present is Sergeant Mike Ruggiero, Orange County

Seated in an unmarked Sheriffs Office vehicle. Im here speaking with;

State your first and last name for me.

Erica Pugh. (crying)

Im (inaudible) (crying) Thats enough (Inaudible)..

through that again.

Itll just take a minute. Okay Erica.

maybe used against you in court.

If you cannot afford a lawyer and want one..

One will be appointed

threatened you or promised you anything to get you to talk to me?

Do you understand what I just read to you?

(laugh) Thats the only way I know them.

Alright whered you go to school?

I wanted to go to school for forensics.

Okay, whered you go to school at?

Wheres that at?

Bum Fuck Maryland.

Delmar its in the Delaware/Maryland line.

Okay. How long you been here in Florida?

here to do go to school to be a lawyer or forensic sciences.

Okay. And your name is Erica Pugh?

Like a church pugh yes.

And your date of birth is February 27, 1995?

Do you have a cell phone Erica?

They took it from me.

someone got it? One of the deputies got it?

Who lets start from the beginning.

Who were you with tonight?

I was with my boyfriend, Benjamin Edward Holterman.

M-A-N-N. How long have you known Ben?

This is shocking me.

Was it just the two of you?

Ah, Benjamin a white male, black male?

(No verbal response)..

Hes a white guy?

And ah, how old is he?

Okay. And um,

So, its Benjamin Edward Holtermann?

Thank you for getting me out the car, the handcuffs.

I dont live with him.

Okay where does he live?

Whered you pick him up from tonight?

Publix over on Hiawassee. By the Pet Supermarket.

You picked him up on Publix on Hiawassee at about what time?

And he was near the Pet Supermarket?

how his V-neck is.

Except his is blue.

Almost the color of your detective shirt.

Okay. And ah, he has on what jeans? Black jeans?

Okay and where do yall go from there?

parking waiting for him. And I go around. Oh my goodness Im probably gonna

park the car.

So, who was it that confronted you?

I dont know some older, elderly gentleman.

So, it wasnt a law enforcement officer it was a

An elderly gentleman. A resident of the area.