Carving a Legacy

The 90s were one of the most hazardous periods for the Balkans, bringing inflation,
war, poverty and post-war depression to the people. All of this inexorably led to
what we may call a substandard status quo within our society, where people can
only do their best to make ends meet, which created a somewhat distorted system
of values. Although art and handiwork are not rare in Montenegro, they are often
considered luxurious because they are not a necessity, which is what makes artists
feel unappreciated and inferior. The fact that art is seen in such a way nowadays is
most probably a consequence of how it was treated during the aforementioned
period. However, people do not give up easily. I had a chat with Vladimir Roganovi ,
a wood carver, who told me all about his trade, of the beginnings and the hardship
he was and still is going through, and of the pleasures of his work, which motivated
him to follow his passion. Vlado lives in Cetinje, Montenegro, and he was very happy
to be given the opportunity to share some secrets of his work by telling me all about
how he decided to start experimenting with wood carving an experiment that he
has been conducting for over twenty years now.

Vlado in his workshop, working on a crest, while explaining how careful you have to
be with the carving chisels if you want to avoid injuries.

Marija: The most logical question to start off with seems to be - when did you first
start carving wood?
Vlado: Well, I started dabbling in woodcarving in the early 90s, 92 perhaps, when
there werent many Montenegrin symbols on the market, things like souvenirs, or
there were very few. Up until then, I had been doing other things, like making
knives, mending them, and so on, which looked quite nice. Then, encouraged by a
friend of mine, I made a key chain. Back then it looked wonderfully done and not
only to me, but to everyone around me too but it was, in fact, horrible.
Nonetheless, thats how it all started.
Marija: Well, I suppose you have to start with something.
Vlado: Exactly. And then, since it was a very bad period of time for the country, we
started making gun handle decorations because they were very popular, and
embossing gunstocks with Montenegrin symbols, so I had quite a bit of work. It
wasnt something I could do for a living because I mainly did it for a close circle of
my friends.

A handgun handle with the Bali family coat of arms

A gill pattern on the handle of a rifle gun

Marija: How did you make the carving chisels back then?
Vlado: I made them by myself. I worked as a machinist back then in Kouta(a shoe
making factory) where I had a small workshop and could make them. I actually went
the other way around: first I made smaller pieces (like the gun handles), so I used
sewing needles for that. There was a machine used for sewing shoe soles that used
very thick string, so it had to have strong needles. I first honed the needles so as
make the chisels that I needed. They were usually different kinds of triangular
chisels, but some were also flat, others curved, concave etc. Once again, all of them
were made for smaller pieces. Back then you couldnt get the proper tools for
anything really, apart from some wood carpentry trades, at least in Montenegro.
And I also didnt know much about wood carving.

Just a small part of Vlados collection of chisels. They vary in both shapes and sizes,
and most of them are hand made by Vlado himself.

Marija: That was precisely my next question. I assumed you educated yourself in the
area, but how did you train yourself?
Vlado: Well, it started with the tools that I made by myself. I used strong steel for
them, the kind we use in the machinist industry for cutting pipes. I used to hone
them and give them the form I was after, and thats how I first started making
carving chisels that I needed for my bigger pieces. Once youve made a small piece,
you can also do a bigger one, so I tried that and they looked acceptable I even
sold some of them. But I mostly gave them away as gifts to friends and family.
Marija: Were they giving you the wood, or did you have to prepare everything by
yourself?
Vlado: There was a wild cherry tree in front of the house. There was a faucet in the
backyard and a cherry tree growing just under it, in our garden, which my neighbor
and I had to process by ourselves in order to get the planks. Those planks were
used for my first attempts... An ash tree ended up in much the same way.
Marija: I hear finding good wood and drying it properly is quite hard, and people
nowadays learn mostly on the Internet. But how did you learn how to do this back
then?

Vlado: Well, at the time, there was no Internet here, although you could gain some
information from wood carpenters. However, people here dont like revealing some
banal information, which you end up acquiring by yourself. I threw away a lot of that
cherry tree trunk because I never knew how to protect it from drying and splitting. I
think such things should be taught to people, we should share the knowledge.
Incidentally, you can use many different types of wood for carving. But I had
problems finding the needed literature. Its hard finding it nowadays as well, even
for the common things, like wood preservation. You cut the wood tangentially
nowadays. But earlier on, people would take the cross section of the wood and cut a
triangular piece out. The middle of the cut out part was the best quality plank used
for making instruments. And as the rings in the wood spread from the center to the
periphery, the interval between them is ever-growing, and filled with water, with
life. So when you cut a tree, you get a structure which is very moist on one end, and
very dry on the other. Since water evaporates faster from where it is more
concentrated, the wood splits. This is why taking a piece out was considered the
best tactics there is, because the idea was to take the dry heart of the tree so as to
get the best part of it, where the rings are close together and dont contain much
water.
Marija: Which type of wood is the best quality?
Vlado: It depends on the school of thought, really. I read, although I havent seen it
by myself, that poplar tree is used in Spain. Linden tree is also quite popular
because its soft and easy to cut, just like poplar tree. Walnut tree is highly
appreciated here because its very thick, but not very firm. But whatever the kind of
tree it might be, its best if it grows in a plain of some sort. This is where our and the
Slavonian oak tree differ. Ours is completely wild, growing on rocks and very knotty.
You cant control it. The Slavonian oak, on the other hand, grows on plains and its
trunk is very straight, wide, with nice rings. But, basically, you can work with any
type of tree, apart from fir tree, because the rings of a fir tree are very hard much
harder than the space between the rings, so cutting them is not very easy. Oak,
walnut and maple tree are the most popular ones, generally speaking. Pear and
apple trees are also nice, and you cant really see a difference between the two
when working with them because they have a similar color and texture, although
apple is somewhat gummier. Pear is very firm, and the old maestros used them for
printing. They used them for wood prints, because pear could go through a lot of
printing without many abrasions, and its easy to cut it. Nowadays, linocut is more
popular and linoleum is widely used for graphic arts.
Marija: So you have to handle everything in the drying process by yourself? Isnt
that hard?
Vlado: It does seem intimidating at first, but its not that complicated. I know from
literature that it used to be much harder processing wood properly in the past. You
see, canvas is relatively new in painting. The old maestros used wood, and they left

scriptures about how to preserve and prepare it, because they used planks that they
dried by themselves before painting on them, and they also used natural colors. It
was very hard getting the type of base with the kind of texture that wouldnt affect
the colors, because wood contains minerals. Thats why you have to daub it first,
which I used to do with color, but color is not the best option. This is why Woodfix is
supreme. See, the metabolism of wood is based on osmosis, as there are many little
tubes in it. The cross cut of a trunk would show you the little tubes. They are open,
once the wood is cut, so the water gets released very quickly and this is why the
plank curves, and splits. Once you smear Woodfix on the plank, it penetrates the
wood, or I should say, the wood absorbs it, so that its practically coated once dried,
and all the pores are closed. You smear it on both sides a couple of times, and this is
how you control the water evaporating. Ill be honest with you, I have never had a
drying process go wrong when using this glue. We have a basement under the
house, which is ideal for drying wood because it has a very stable temperature. You
can also make a draught, and the sun isnt shining directly into the wood, and those
are really the ideal conditions for drying it.
I mentioned the old maestros. The best maestros were Dutch. They would spend
some 20 years or so just to prepare the plank before painting on them. For wood
carving you dont have to do that. And how would they prepare it? They would dry it
in the attics, where there is a lot of wind, and no sun, because they wouldnt want
the plank to dry too fast. Now, I mentioned before that wood contains minerals that
remain in the tubes for metabolism. Every year, a layer of those minerals would
emerge on the surface of the plank. They would peel it, millimeter by millimeter,
and repeat that process on a yearly basis. This is why the maestros themselves are
so well known even today, and the quality of the wood they used to paint on was
superb.
Now, you can prepare your plank by yourself. You get a nice trunk and cut it in a
sawmill, or do it the traditional way - with the triangular cut-out. That system isnt
practical, however, because you get very little material from an entire trunk. But
you get great quality, which is the most important thing to have, along with good
carving knives.
Marija: Would you say that making your own carving chisels is the best?
Vlado: No, I wouldnt. Its best if you can afford German, Swiss, Japanese or
American carving chisels I have some American ones, but its the Chinese version of
American, so they arent very reliable. Buying branded, good quality chisels would
be ideal, but they are quite expensive. And, you know, not many people do
handiwork anymore. Even artists who work with wood use electro-pneumatic chicels
used for wood processing, which work perfectly fine for both rough and detailed
carving. This is why wood carving cant possibly be profitable in Montenegro,
because, unlike the West, we dont appreciate handiwork here. Talking about luxury
and wood carving is absurd when people have to worry about what to eat tomorrow.

But the fact remains that, whenever people liven up a bit, I manage to sell
something, which means that people like what I am doing, but the living conditions
arent good. The furniture industry has taken over now, and the problem is that they
are making things that cost less, are less time consuming, and you can still make a
profit. However, I dont think one should stop working because of that. You do this
type of work for pleasure, and if you can earn a bit on the way, excellent! But you
cant chase the profit, because it simply isnt there. I need at least 20 days to carve
one crest. Selling it at the price that would match the hours, days or weeks that I
spend making it would be insane. The good thing is, my expenses are relatively
small, mostly because I get my own wood and make my own carving chisels. But
you can also get cheap wood in lumber yards, or in sawmills.
Marija: Do your clients set firm deadlines?
Vlado: No, because usually Im the one setting them. In the 20 years that Ive been
in this job, I only once missed the deadline that I had set. I was a couple of days
late because I was ill. Its easy to find excuses for yourself whenever you need
them, and I dont want to be strict to myself or other people Cut yourself some
slacks.
Marija: What do you like doing best? Clocks, commercials, crests?
Vlado: I enjoy doing things that I havent done before. I have some plans now as
well, well see about that. Ive tried a number of things, and I can do most of them
without difficulty because I can make whatever I can draw. However, all these things
that seem good to me dont have to be good to other people. They generally like it,
even some artists that I know have complimented my work. However, I dont see it
as art, because art implies creation. You need to have an idea and then make it real,
regardless of whether people will like it or not, as long as you see it as good. I dont
have that creative urge; I dont feel the need to create something new. I remember
seeing a sculpture that some artist made in Hamburg. She made a totem of some
sort, about four meters tall, and she carved 130 faces on that totem. That is art for
me, even though I might have carved the faces more intricately than she did. It
might be a subconscious complex telling you that you havent mastered something
so you cant create anything good. And this lady, the artist, didnt care about that.
She had an idea and she made it work without paying much attention to details and
without trying to make the faces look hyper-realistic. And Im a slave to that, to
trying to make things look as real as possible, which is a mistake, because art is not
about that. The need to make something that would look perfect and the best there
is stopping you from creating. Maybe I will do something of my own in the future,
which will most certainly not be an imitation People want to be original by all
costs, but I really think there is no such thing as originality we all copy each other
in one way or another.

The coat of arms of Montenegro

The coat of arms of the Stanojevi family

The coat of arms of the Cerovi family

Marija: I know your daughter also likes to carve small pieces, mostly figurines and
key chains. Are you glad because of that?
Vlado: Well, Im not sure I dont think parents should be telling children what to
do. You set an example for them by being a good role model, but dont impose
anything. You cant tell your kids not to lie, while being a liar yourself. So, if shes
interested in it, Im happy, but if shes not, Im equally happy. Let kids choose their
own ways in life I only wouldnt like them to do something that would make them
have a guilty conscience. I dont think Ive been a bad example, which is good
enough for me. I think people should be allowed to live however they want as long
as their behavior doesnt make others feel bad.
Marija: Do you know of other people in Montenegro who do this kind of work?
Vlado: I know quite a lot of people who are very good at it as well. I went to several
souvenir fairs, and almost founded a society of artisans with some of my friends 5
or 6 years ago. However, things got complicated and we gave up on it. Such an
organization would be good because wed learn much faster that way. I am still
learning because I didnt tackle the basics when I was supposed to do it Ive been
in this work for twenty years now, and it took a lot of time and effort to learn
everything that I need. Its interesting how we have developed this mentality that is
prone to going back and forth from exaltation to depression. When I was younger, I

was interested in art history, but I was sure that I had to know how to draw and
paint in order to study that. Then, when you get older, you realize it is all gibberish,
because its a job, just like any other job. The reason why you cant draw is because
you cant look. Drawing is relatively easy to learn the basics, at least. And then,
those who are gifted will learn how to do it in no time. Id never have learned this
had it not been for judo, where you learn the technique for years until it becomes a
reflex, after tens of thousands of repetitions. But if you dont practice your talent, it
will not evolve 99.9% is work, and that 0.1% is what makes a Picasso, a Dali, all
the people who somehow left a mark on the history of art.
We behave as if were trying to trick someone, but who are we trying to trick?
Whatever it is theyre doing, our people will try to do something in an easier way,
skip some less important things, but you have to pay for whatever you skip And
this is why I ended up learning for such a long time. But what really matters is that I
feel good while I do it, and I dont feel pressured.

After my conversation with Vlado, I had the chance to take a closer look at his work,
and I was impressed with how detailed and realistic they are. He is very modest
about it, but the fact remains that not everybody could do this kind of handiwork,
and I was very happy to have met a person who is willing to commit himself to
keeping it alive. It was a great challenge for him, doing what he does, in the
previous two decades, and I truly hope he keeps his work receives the attention it
deserves.

Vlado, honing the chisels