Our Future, The End of the World, UFO’s,

Aliens, Free Energy, 2012, The NWO, NASA,

The United States, The Illumnati, safe places and more.
 

Th e
Project Camelot Interviews Vol. 3
With Bill Ryan & Kerry Cassidy

Many who are challenging our current way of life have concerns about coming forward publicly and
telling what they know. Project Camelot's purpose is to provide a vehicle for those researchers and
'whistleblowers' to get their stories of truth out to the public.

Interviews With: Bill Homann ,Wade Frazier, Dr. Joseph Farrell, Jim Marrs, Duncan O'Finioan & Dave
Corso, Dr. Steven Greer, Kerry Cassidy & Bill Ryan, Drs. Dan Burisch & Marci McDowell, Dr. Brian
O’Leary, Dr. Bill Deagle, David Wilcock, Bob Dean, Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon”, , Dr. “Pete”
Peterson, Dr. Paul LaViolette, Patrick Geryl, Jordan Maxwell, Erich von Daniken, Miriam Delicado, Dr.
Len Horiritz, Dr. Alfred Webre, Marcia Schafer, Alex Collier, Cynthia Crawford, Richard Dolan and more.

WARNING:

Unless you have an open mind and are ready for some significant reality checks, do
not open this book or read these interviews. They will tell you the truth, or as close to it
as we can get at this time. And you may not be able to handle the truth. Remember to
read between the lines where information conflicts.
As Richard C. Hoagland says, “The lie is different at every level.”……..

It’s A Dangerous Path, …..Remember, ….You Were Warned!

 ProjectCamelotPortal.com

PRINTED FOR RESEARCH USE ONLY

The Truth Will Out

- William Shakespeare

Not For Sale

Anyone is completely free to download, copy, circulate, or distribute any

Project Camelot interviews, with the provision that it remains unedited and
unaltered, there is no commercial use, and that Project Camelot is referenced.
All rights are reserved. Many thanks.
Includes some related supporting material.

Project Camelot
projectcamelotportal.com
&
Bill Ryan
bill@projectavalon.net
&
Kerry Cassidy
kerry@projectcamelot.org

Founded: May 2006

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This edition typeset by Fred Woods

©2010
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May 2010
FIRST EDITION
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The Project Camelot Interviews

Contents - Vol. 3
The Project Camelot Interviews Vol. 3 Contents 3
Project Camelot - Kerry Cassidy & Bill Ryan 9
Project Goals 10
Overview & Mission Statement 10
In Tribute & Memory 10
A Note About Whistleblowers And Researhers 11
Camelot Camera Work 11

Bill Homann And The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull 12

There are a number of known crystal skulls in existence, but of these the Mitchell-Hedges skull is unique in its extraordinary
craftsmanship. It has been studied by both scientists and psychics with no conclusive proof as to how old it is or even how it could
possibly have been crafted from a single large crystal. Many, including Bill Homann, believe it to be a relic from Atlantean times, and
the story he tells of what occurred when it was reunited with the Crystal Orb (recovered from a cavity in an undersea pyramid in
1970) is highly intriguing.

An Analysis Of The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull 19

The skull is made from a single block of clear quartz, and is a near-perfect depiction of a small human skull measuring five inches
high by seven inches long and five inches wide.
Featured in The Mystery of the Crystal Skulls, by Chris Morton and Ceri Louise Thomas, is the account of the examination of the
Mitchell-Hedges skull in 1970 by experts in quartz crystal at the Santa Clara laboratories of the computer and electronics giant,
Hewlett-Packard.
The authors returned there nearly three decades later to interview the then principal scientist, Jack Kusters, and the former
engineering manager for quartz devices, Charles Adams, who had been present during the tests in 1970

Wade Frazier - Interview Transcript - A Healed Planet & The Role Of Free Energy 20
Wade Frazier, "groomed as a scientist from an early age", became fascinated by the subject of Free Energy when just a teenager.
As is so often the case with those with a clearly envisioned life mission when so young, his life's path then propelled him through a
series of hard-hitting experiences that qualify him to be one of the preeminent writers on the subject today.

Dr. Joseph Farrell - Nazi International 34

We first heard of Joseph Farrell from Richard Hoagland - and soon after from Nick Cook, the author of The Hunt for Zero Point.
Farrell, like Peter Levenda, is essentially an academic: a document researcher who digs deep into historical detail and has become
fascinated, as many others have, with the hidden history of the Third Reich. He has continued Igor Witkowski's and Nick Cook's
research into the enigmatic Nazi Bell: an experimental device, classified at the highest level, that seems to have been used to
investigate time distortion effects or antigravity - very possibly both - based on the beginnings of theoretical torsion physics that was
being developed in the 1920s and 1930s by a number of brilliant European scientists, themselves very much ahead of their time.
In this interview, Bill Ryan takes the lead and talks with Joseph Farrell in some depth about his work. The interview takes the viewer
on a journey which starts before the Second World War, and explores just what German scientists may have been doing in great
secret, with the full support of the SS. And, as the title of the video indicates, the story by no means ends there. This video may be of
considerable interest to students of wartime advanced technology, and of the hidden history of the Third Reich.

Jim Marrs - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America 54

Jim Marrs - an amiable Texan with twinkling eyes and a mind like a steel trap - is a veteran researcher and speaker on all topics
connected with the agenda of the New World Order. Project Camelot is proud to add him to our strong cadre of witnesses.

The books that Jim has authored represent his range of interests clearly: Crossfire (about JFK), Alien Agenda, Rule by Secrecy,
The Terror Conspiracy, PSI Spies, The Rise of the Fourth Reich, and Above Top Secret. Jim's broad span of research
encompasses Egyptian and Sumerian mythology, Nazi technology, the ET presence, modern geopolitical analysis, the power of the
military-industrial complex, the Illuminati, and what one might call the real history of the twentieth century.
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Jim sees the big picture clearly, has great command of detail, and is one of the strongest speakers on the lecture circuit today. The
title of this video - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America - tells its own story, and in this 75 minute interview Jim lays out the
compelling and disturbing evidence that while most people thought the Second World War ended in 1945, the Nazis were never
stopped in their agenda - which can only be understood when one considers how they were assisted in coming to power by those
Controllers who plan in terms of generations... not terms of government office.
Duncan O'Finioan - Telephone Interview Transcript 13 April 2009 70
We had not talked with Duncan O'Finioan at length since our last meeting with him - when we interviewed him with David Corso in
January 2007. In this 52 minute audio conversation he tells us about what he has learned about his programmed alternate
personalities, how they operate, and what their agenda is; how he is working, with professional support, with a substantial group of
people who have been through similar military programs (four generations of them, sourced in a number of different countries
including Russia); and his visions of troubled times ahead in the US.
Duncan, who has suffered greatly, is a great-hearted giant of a man and it's our privilege to continue to support him to get his
message out. We're delighted that he will be speaking at our coming conference in LA in June 2009. Do listen to this interview.

Dr. Bill Deagle – Telephone Interview 29 April 2009 79

We're co-creators of our own future. We're not VICTIMS of the future. We also have to realize that if someone dies in a third world
country, like an 'untouchable' in India, or someone in Mexico City that's living in a garbage heap, WE die: some portion of us dies
too. If we allow the use of depleted uranium weapons to kill little girls in Gaza, or if we allow nuclear weapons to drop on the
Bushehr reactor and downwind millions die from radiation poisoning, we die too. And if we can feel that connectedness in spirit as a
cell in the body of mankind... we would turn back from that.
Dr Bill Deagle, 29 April 2009

In this interview we talk with Dr Bill Deagle for 54 minutes about the 'Swine Flu' outbreak, the possible plans of the Controllers, and
his own personal philosophy. He covers the recent flu outbreak in Mexico and how it may be just a precursor of the 'real' outbreak, in
another 'wave' to come; Dr Bill's view of the state of Israel and their plans to attack Iran; and we give Dr Bill a chance to address the
issues many critics have raised over the past few years. One thing is clearly evident: Dr Bill is a very good sport and quite willing to
face his detractors head-on with honesty and without rancor.

Erich von Daniken - Interlaken, Switzerland, May 2009 89

I (Bill Ryan) first read Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods in 1968, having saved up my pocket money as a 15 year old to buy
a first edition hardback copy which became one of the earliest cornerstones in my library of the unexplained.

When I had the opportunity to visit his Mystery Park, in Interlaken, Switzerland - a high-tech, multimedia showcase of evidence for
ancient ET contact - I wrote to von Däniken to ask if it might be possible to meet. I was there with a group of friends, and Erich made
a special appearance for a few minutes to say hello. We were honored and delighted.

One of the group filmed the short conversation with a handycam, and we recorded the audio on a dictaphone. It is exactly as it
appears: an impromptu meeting, and a brief personal conversation, in a public place. But for those who, like myself, appreciate him
for making it so much easier for other researchers to follow ("I know Graham Hancock and Zecharia Sitchin well," Erich said. "We all
keep in touch") - they may find this brief encounter most interesting. Enjoy...

Bill Ryan's Keynote Presentation At The Zurich Conference, 10 July. 94

Experienced presenters (and I consider myself to be one) may be amused to know what when I stepped on to the stage to open the
conference, I had prepared nothing, had no PowerPoint slides, and had no clue what I was going to talk about for two hours.
However, although my mind was blank, everything felt fine - and it turned out to be really quite a good presentation. Moral of the
story, go with the Force. Enjoy :)

Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell Workshop, At The Zurich Conference, 12 July 106

Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell gave a two hour, personalized workshop to a group of 50 delegates from the Zurich Conference
('A NEW WORLD - IF YOU CAN TAKE IT') on 12 July 2009, in which they present and discuss, in considerable depth, many details
of their work and experience.

Dr. Brian O'Leary - Free Energy -- joined by Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” -- 12 July. 130
Half way through Dr.Brian O'Leary's presentation on Free Energy, Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” - who had been present
throughout as an anonymous delegate - asked if he could join Brian to support his testimony on the reality of Free Energy
technology.

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This video fully captures this surprising (and historic!) moment and Henry, in his very first public appearance, speaking nervously but
with great courage, outlines a little of his experience and testifies to the reality of a Free Energy device, based on the Casimir Effect,
which he worked with in the 1980s at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey and which at that time was accessible in the public
domain. The video continues to the formal end of the Conference. Enjoy Brian's wonderful jazz piano...!

Dr. Dan Burisch - His Statement at the Zurich Conference, 16 July, 2009 144

Speakers Panel on UFO Disclosure, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit , 23 July, 2009 147
Project Camelot was invited to attend the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit to moderate an in-depth Panel Discussion between the
speakers. While we were there, we took part in and/or filmed the following presentations or discussions - in date order of
occurrence:
Featuring (left to right): Paola Harris, Brian O'Leary, Bob Dean, Stephen Bassett, Kerry Cassidy, Bill Ryan, Michael Salla, Alfred
Webre, Nick Pope, and Robert Fleischer. Dr Steven Greer was invited by the Barcelona conference organizers, but declined to take
part.
Press Conference, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit , 24 July, 2009 177
Here we feature our great friend Bob Dean speaking with passion to the press, discarding his notes as he started to address the
room.

Bob Dean's Conference Presentation, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit , 25 July, 2009 179

Bob Dean gives his 75 minute presentation in which he showed a number of impressive, suppressed NASA images - and at the end
of which Henry Deacon went on to the stage with Kerry Cassidy to state that he had visited the Mars base as part of his classified
work. This is a fantastic presentation and shows Bob Dean, 80 years old, word perfect, fluent, passionate, at his very finest.

Futuretalk, at the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit 26 July, 2009 200

On the Sunday morning, the last day of the conference, we recorded an hour-long Futuretalk with Alfred Webre, Bob Dean, and
Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann).

Dr. Steven Greer – The Unknown Agenda” 211

Dr Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project is almost too well-known in the UFO research community to require an introduction. His
ground-breaking Press Conference, in Washington in May 2001, was one of a number of influential factors which inspired us to
found Project Camelot five years later. Our intention was to support his initiative and add further momentum, and information, to the
disclosure moment at a grass-roots level.
Since we were all attending the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit in July 2009, we were looking forward, at last, to the opportunity to
talk to Dr. Greer. More than one person in his entourage was also supportive of our meeting, as they themselves had been following
Camelot's work for long enough to know that our intentions were honorable.
What you will see in this 70 minute video [read in this transcript of the video] is an impassioned, articulate and intelligent discussion
which has as its central theme the most important question that may be faced by the human race: Can we trust ALL the visitors to
Planet Earth? To risk a simplistic paraphrase, Dr Greer says Yes, and Project Camelot says Not Necessarily.
The debate is well-informed and vigorous. We thank Dr. Greer for appearing with us, and he gave a good account of himself. And so
did we. Enjoy... and we would like to emphasize again what we stated clearly in the video: that none of us can know with
certainty the agendas of all the many visiting ET races, and to presume that one does may be irresponsible and premature.
Informed by what we know, we stand by that view - and we look forward to further discussion as more information continues to
become available.

Dr. Steven Greer – The Orion Project 228

Dr. Steven Greer Talking to Art Bell on Coast To Coast AM 8 August 2004 229
Art Bell: Dr. Greer has been at the front of the parade with regard to disclosure. Dr. Steven Greer has been the man putting his life
on the line and trying to pull or drag from the government, or civilians, or pilots, or anybody he can, the information about what we're
going through here on Earth with unidentified flying objects and one of the reasons - I think, one of the main motivations - though, he
can speak with his own tongue on this issue is that, if they are there, that means they have a propulsion system that would free the
world from the war for oil. I mean, you know, basically folks, you can look at many reasons why we might be at war right now, but
oil's got to be somewhere near the top of the list, equals energy equals if they've got it, we need it. And I think that's what he's
chasing, but I don't know. I'd like to let Dr. Greer speak for himself….

Arthur Newman a.k.a. “Henry Deacon” - Interview by Rafa Palacios July 2009 248

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Inpromptu inteview in lobby of hotel between Conference lectures.

Dr. Pete Peterson – from US interior- June 2009 254

Dr Peterson is an extremely well-informed insider - and a most remarkable and brilliant scientist - who came forward to talk with us
publicly because he feels the issues he cares deeply about, and knows about, are too important to keep silent about. We salute his
courage.
Among the many things Dr Peterson spoke about at length was his strong, informed belief that there will be a melt-down of the
global economy - and US infrastructure - which may be almost upon us; that Obama is planning to disclose the reality of ET contact
by the end of the year; and that most, but not all, of the ET visitors are friendly.
There is much, much more. Here is a very general list of the subjects we discussed:
• The probable (in Dr Peterson's strong opinion) collapse of the economy, infrastructure, and law and order in the US
• The planned disclosure of the ET presence
• The Aurora (now retired from service and replaced by vehicles capable of superluminal travel) and the TR3B (the large flying
triangle, which functions as an aircraft carrier)
• Artificial intelligence and advanced robotics
• The "information field" and how the body, the mind, and DNA really function
• Healing modalities which work very rapidly and effectively
• 'Rescuing' brilliant scientists out of the old USSR
• How Mir (the Russian Space Station) was so heavy that it could not have been assembled without 'help' from our 'friends' (or,
to be exact, the Russians' friends)
• Time spent in the Vatican Library
• The existence of Sumerian high technology
• Quantum computing (off-camera, Dr Peterson held in his hand a cheap quantum chip, which he had assembled himself in his
own laboratory, with the computing power of 10,000 PCs)
• The genius of James Clerk Maxwell, and why Einstein was wrong
• Why you should not spend too much time in front of your new Digital TV
• The reality of the US prison camps
• How President Obama was (in all probability) set up

How he came to understand that 15% of the world's population (of all races) have ET ancestry that can be seen in their DNA - and
are also resistant to mind control technologies.

Miriam Delicado – A Message August 21, 2009 294

….We really need to step things up. We need to step things up as a community. We need to step things up in unity - and make our
voices a lot stronger than they have been.
It's very clear to me how this network of people that are working in this light in order to educate, in order to inform, and in order to
bring about change for humanity and the Earth are really connected to one another.
This particular time that we're in is very delicate - and it is truly the time of choice. But we're moving into a time where difficulties are
starting to arise for individuals, communities, families. And we need to pay closer attention to what we as individuals are doing...
Dr. Len Horiwitz – Emerging Viruses 298
A short video interview recorded by Kerry Cassidy with Dr Leonard Horowitz - when he spoke with Dr Masaru Emoto at the Live
H2O event at Laguna Beach on 18 June 2009.
For a little over half an hour Len talks with Kerry fluently, and with passion, about viruses, health, water, sovereignty, alternative
healing, and his own Christian Faith.
Patrick Geryl - The World Cataclysm in 2012 305

The World Cataclysm in 2012 is the title of a book written by Belgian author Patrick Geryl in 2005 - and the title tells it just like he
sees it. Patrick's opinion is so cut-and-dried - and quite devoid of hope - that he was interviewed in conjunction with the upcoming
Sony Pictures movie, 2012, due to be released worldwide next month.
It is our conviction that as we enter this time of convergence where a multitude of simultaneously profound changes will be
happening, the development of discernment becomes more and more crucial. In this spirit, we offer this interview: a report about the
work of Patrick Geryl.
In brief, Geryl is convinced that the sun will undergo a pole reversal in 2012, which he says, is a cyclical event that takes place every
26,000 years and has been documented. This has some scientific basis - and, from what we understand, this repeating event may
indeed be overdue. This solar pole reversal would in turn induce a similar reversal on Planet Earth. At that point, to paraphrase
Geryl's conclusions, all hell will break loose.
Patrick Geryl - How To Survive 2012 325
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Patrick Geryl – Star Signs and the Labyrith 327
Patrick Geryl – The Hall of Records and the Labyrinth 329
Patrick Geryl – Pole Shift and Pole Reversal in 2012 333

Dr. Paul LaViolette - Earth Under Fire: Galactic Superwaves 336

Dr Paul LaViolette is the measured counterpart to Patrick Geryl, whose interview we have released simultaneously. A brilliant and
maverick astrophysicist, Paul is best known for his research into a new theory of matter he calls Subquantum Kinetics - based on
systems theory, which he studied for his PhD thesis - and for his carefully argued hypothesis, first formulated in 1983, that our
galactic center periodically emits devastating waves he termed superwaves.
Galactic superwaves are intense cosmic ray particle bombardments that originate from the center of our Galaxy, and that last for
periods of up to a few thousand years. Paul explains that astronomical and geological evidence indicates that the last major
superwave impacted our solar system around 12,000 to 16,000 years ago, and produced abrupt changes of the Earth's climate.
The land animal extinction episode which occurred during this interval was the worst in several million years, and Paul estimates that
approximately one or two superwaves strong enough to trigger an ice age are presently on their way to us from their birthplace at
the galactic core... 23,000 light years away. Paul states that there is a real chance that one such event could arrive within the next
few decades. Importantly - because they travel at the speed of light - we would not see them coming.
Paul La Violette - Subquantum Kinetics - Based on Systems Theo 358
– Comparison to Quantum Theory and Field Theory 360
– Predictions – Astronomy and Climatology 362

Jordan Maxwell - The Takeover of Planet Earth 371

According to Jordan, the picture is not pretty: the Earth is not controlled by human beings; that the human race is currently being
mutated; and, to put it mildly, we are all in some degree of trouble.

The dire conclusions Jordan has reached are mitigated by his own fascinating personal story: that he was groomed and prepared for
his current role by nothing less than a group of benevolent ETs - one of whom he met in person in the guise of the father of a girl he
met when he was just 19. He was explicitly told by this remarkable (but very ordinarily human-looking) man - who told him details of
his life that no-one could possibly know - that he would have a very important job to do later, in years to come. It is very clear that he
is doing that job right now.

Miriam Delicado - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September 399

Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, talking about her book ALIEN BLUE STAR - and the important
message it brings.

Dr Alfred Webre - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September 408

Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, talking about Solar Cycles - and the nature of the changes
that may be starting to affect us all.

Marcia Schafer - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September 415

Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, on the theme of Metamorphosis: the transformation of the
human race, and of all us as spiritual beings here on Planet Earth.

Richard Dolan - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September 426

Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, 19 September 2009, talking about his important new book: Volume 2 of UFOs and
THE NATIONAL SECURITY STATE.

Robert Dean - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September 439

Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, Los Angeles, 19 September 2009. This is another wonderful, heartfelt presentation
by the best loved lecturer on the UFO circuit... and again Bob presents and comments on some of the suppressed NASA slides of
Apollo 13, Mars, and Saturn which he has acquired. Enjoy :)

Cynthia Crawford - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 19 September 451

Contactee Workshop at the Project Camelot Aware and Aware Conference, September 2009

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Duncan O'Finioan and David Corso - LA Awake and Aware Conference- 20 September 459
Duncan O'Finioan and David Corso, both survivors of the first generation of the US Military's highly classified super-soldier program,
take the platform to talk about MK-ULTRA and PROJECT TALENT, and take questions from the audience.

Alex Collier - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 20 September 472

Alex Collier speaks powerfully and engagingly at the Project Camelot AWAKE AND AWARE Conference in Los Angeles, 20 Sept
2009.

We were delighted and privileged that Alex accepted our invitation to make a presentation at the conference, though for security
reasons he asked us to withhold his name from the speakers' list until the conference had begun.

Alex talked in depth and with passion about the problems and challenges that we all face looking towards the future from 2009 - and
introduces an intriguing new concept: mentoring in co-operation with our ET allies.

Jordon Maxwell - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 20 September 487

Speaking without notes and with little notice, veteran researcher Jordan Maxwell stepped up to the plate to help us to fill a vacant
slot in the program to give a fascinating, impromptu 45 minute presentation at the Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference in
Los Angeles, 20 September 2009.

A week later, we interviewed Jordan on video for three more hours - enabling him to continue presenting his material in the depth
that it warrants.

In the meantime, this all-too-brief presentation is an excellent introduction for anyone who has not yet heard this great man present
his material. The new interview, containing important new material, is currently being edited and will be released soonest.

David Wilcock - LA Awake and Aware Conference - 20 September 495

2012: THE RETURN OF CAMELOT

-- DAVID WILCOCK's wonderful and inspired closing presentation at the Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference, Los
Angeles, 20 September 2009.

-- A note of apology: we did the best we could with the colorizing of the video. The lighting conditions for the camera were very poor
(David preferred the conference room lights turned right down so as to emphasize his slide presentation). The value of the content,
of course, is unaffected :)

Interviews and Lectures Not Yet Available As Transcripts 521

Notes 523

Project Camelot
projectcamelotportal.com

&

Bill Ryan
bill@projectavalon.net

&

Kerry Cassidy
kerry@projectcamelot.org

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About Us
The best place to hide is in the open.

Project Camelot is based on an idea generated when we first met and spent the weekend in Tintagel, England, overlooking the sea in the
home of King Arthur. We named our project in tribute to the vision behind the utopian idea of the Round Table - and have structured all our
efforts in this inspiring spirit.

For the past two years we have been financing Project Camelot solely out of our own pockets and with the generous help of donations from
visitors to our site. We thank you sincerely all for your help and support, without which we could not do what we do.

To date, we have traveled widely meeting and interviewing truth-tellers in the effort to provide enlightening testimony about the true nature
of our world. We will continue as long as our funds and contributions make this all possible.

_____________________________

Bill Ryan

Bill Ryan has a BSc in Mathematics with Physics and Psychology (Bristol University, UK,
1974), and followed this with a brief stint in teaching. For 27 years he was a management
consultant specializing in personal and team development, leadership training and executive
coaching. Major long-term clients included BAe (Systems) Ltd (formerly British Aerospace),
Hewlett-Packard, and PricewaterhouseCoopers.

In November 2005 he inaugurated the Project Serpo website, the report of an alleged
disclosure, in stages, of a US-alien exchange program which took place over 40 years ago.
While he had been interested in UFOs, Free Energy research and alternative medicine (he is
trained as a kinesiologist) for over thirty years, his first contact with the UFO community at
large occurred after establishing the Serpo website. He resigned his management consultancy
post in May 2006 and now devotes all his time to Project Camelot.

Kerry Cassidy

Kerry Lynn Cassidy has a BA in English with graduate work in Sociology, an MBA certificate
from the UCLA Anderson Graduate School of Management, and was competitively selected to
attend a year of film school at the UCLA Extension Short Fiction Film Program as one of their
first "hyphenates": a writer-director-producer.

After 19 years in Hollywood working for major studios and independent production companies
in production, development and new media, she has written a number of screenplays, acquired
the movie rights to the Wingmakers story in 2003, and started work on her own UFO
documentary in 2005.

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Bill Ryan is currently based in Europe and Kerry Cassidy lives near Los Angeles. Contrary to most people's very natural assumptions, they
are not a couple. United in their vision and purpose, and working as the closest friends, they travel and network as widely as possible in
search of truth and reliable testimony to answer what may be the most important questions of our time.

Project Goals:
• To provide researchers, activists and ‘whistleblowers’ – in the area of exopolitics, free energy and investigation into conspiracies
that threaten the current paradigm – with access to all forms of media in order to get the truth out.
• To establish ‘safety in numbers’ and unite these disparate factions under an umbrella of protection for activists and ‘whistleblowers’
who may have concerns for the safety of themselves and their loved ones.
• To provide a tribute to all activists in paradigm-challenging fields who have worked for the benefit of humanity... and who have
suffered or been silenced for speaking the truth.

Overview And Mission Statement:

• Many courageous, free-thinking individuals have suffered for their commitment to help humanity.
• We honor them here, and offer protection and support for those who follow in their path.
• We are dedicated to getting the truth out.

In Tribute And Memory:

Please visit the tribute page on our website for information about each of these people's lives and achievements... and why they may have
died.

Dr. John Badwey John Hadley Stanley Meyer

Paul Bennewitz Harry Hoxsey Dr. Wilhelm Reich
James Black Morris K. Jessup Royal Rife
Dr. Eugene Blass Dr. Milbank Johnson Ron Rummel
Ron Bonds Todd Kauppila Phil Schneider
Mae Brussell Jim Keith Leonid Strachunsky
Danny Casolaro Dr. David Kelly Jose Trias
Dr. J. Clayton John F. Kennedy Karla Turner
William Cooper Dean Warwick
Dr. Cooperson Dorothy Kilgallen Gary Webb
Arie DeGeus Dr. William Koch 25 Marconi scientists, 1982-88
Ruth Drown George Lakhovsky 10 NASA astronauts, 1964-67
Frank Edwards Ann Livingston 9 Minot and Barksdale AFB airmen,
Brian Lynch 2007
Don Elkins Dr. John Mack Mr. X (Dec. ’08)
James V. Forrestal Dr. Eugene Mallove
Dr. Max Gerson Dr. James McDonald ... AND THE LIST GOES ON

These people died for their cause. Who will be next?

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A Note About Whistleblowers And Researchers

We, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, do not necessarily agree with or endorse all of the views presented
here. What Camelot is about is the investigation into the mysteries that surround us. We are all, in a sense,
investigators of our world. And while we, as individuals, may not agree with everything presented on our
site, we fully support freedom of thought and speech as well as the Quest for truth.

--31 December 2008

Camelot Camera Work

A filmmaker wrote in today to ask about our shooting and editing style for Camelot interviews... It occurs
to me that many people may wonder about this. Some may be surprised to learn there actually is a method
to our 'madness':

Thank you for writing to us and taking the time to watch our videos. In regard to the editing style... We
shoot interviews with 2 cameras... I use one main camera full on shooting the guest and behind that
camera is usually the lead interviewer depending whether it is Bill or me. Most of the time it is me.

Then we use the other camera as a roving cam and the other person does constant hand-held moving shots
angling on whoever is talking -- either the interviewer or the guest. Then we cut it together... I like to
emphasize the facial expressions and get interesting angles using the hand-held whenever possible to vary
the pov of the guest and add variety. I also like to be zoomed in anywhere shoulders and above whenever
possible.

It requires a lot of attention while shooting especially for the one using the roving camera because they
have to do a QUICK PAN over to the INTERVIEWER whenever that person asks a question .. then
another QUICK PAN TO THE GUEST for the answer.

While the lead camera is fixed solely on the Guest this is the most important footage as it never leaves the
guest. We use that in editing as the primary reel and weave the other MOVING SHOTS in between.

It is most important to get the dynamic INTERACTION between the subject and the interviewer.... This
sets up the dramatic and emotional content that moves the interview out of the realm of conventional
journalism and into the realm of art and reveals much more....

–Kerry Cassidy

--30 August 2009

11
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com

Project Camelot:
Bill Homann and the
Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia, October 2008

were some around the jaw and the teeth. But when Dorland
cracked the tooth when it was at Hewlett-Packard, he did
restoration on it to repair it. So it’s hard to say where the
markings came from.

When we were attending the October 2008 NEXUS conference in

Australia, we had the great privilege of spending half an hour in
the presence of the very famous Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull.
But the thing is... Even so, the thing that blows the scientists’
While doing so, we were able to record a short impromptu minds is...the fact is they can’t figure out how the Skull was
interview with its current custodian, Bill Homann. We were able separated. And being separated, and with Hewlett-Packard’s
to film the skull at close range, and heard the fascinating stories tests, the top half of the Skull and the jaw are the same piece of
of Dr. Ray Brown's Crystal Orb - of which we were shown a crystal.
photograph - and a little-known major artifact, the whereabouts
of which is known by Bill Homann, called the Crystal Boy.

There are a number of known crystal skulls in existence, but of

these the Mitchell-Hedges skull is unique in its extraordinary
craftsmanship. It has been studied by both scientists and psychics
with no conclusive proof as to how old it is or even how it could
possibly have been crafted from a single large crystal. Many,
including Bill Homann, believe it to be a relic from Atlantean
times, and the story he tells of what occurred when it was
reunited with the Crystal Orb (recovered from a cavity in an
undersea pyramid in 1970) is highly intriguing.

Bill Homann: The technology, whoever made it, is something

that really couldn’t be recreated. And there’s so much in the Skull
that the more you study it, the more unusual it is. So...

Kerry Cassidy: In what way do you think the technology is so

special? Could you explain what you mean by that? KC: OK.

BH: Yeah. The technology. Well, the fact is...
KC: Could it be created today if you had a crystal this big?
BH: Well, the problem is the carving of the jaw, and that’s what
is so exciting and messes up the scientists. The scientists want to
come in. They’ve made tests and they found they couldn’t find
any kind of tool marks or anything on the whole Skull. But there
12
BH: And that right there...how they can separate the two...the
technology, even today, would be pretty much impossible. And
the fact, is how they put prisms inside the Skull, how they put the
lenses in there that work to the eye sockets. That would take zero
gravity to try to do it today. And really I don’t think we could
really duplicate it in zero gravity.
So who did it, how they did it, that’s what makes the Skull so
interesting. But the real thing about the Skull, what it is, is what
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
you feel about it, you know. People pick up this energy, this
specialness.
KC: Well crystals in general will give you energy. You can find
amethyst with your hands. I get energy. The reason why I’m
doing this ... I get energy with my hands. And I can feel vortexes.
BH: OK. Did you feel it outside?
KC: Yes, I did.
BH: Yeah. I mean it’s not like it...
KC: It’s not like right here.
BH: The waves...
KC: It’s waves going out.
BH: When you put your hands by it, it’s a connection to it.
KC: Sure.
BH: You have your hands out here, you can feel it. You can be
out across the street, really...
KC: Well I actually felt it when we were coming up the stairs. I
could feel... There’s a vibration now that’s going on down the
hall so to speak because of the presence of the thing.
BH: So that’s the kind of... It’s a little unusual than, you know,
not just because of it’s crystal by itself.
KC: So, how many years has this Skull been in your life?
BH: Let’s see, probably about -- off and on -- for probably 12
years.
KC: OK. And what... Has it changed your life, do you feel?
BH: Completely. Yeah. Yeah. It’s... Especially my life now is
just like a fast-moving river. Things happen. It’s like... If I can
just take a month, like August.
August: I went to Germany, Switzerland, Austria, met a lot of
people, did a lot of lectures. Come back. Somebody from
England comes over and stays with me. Somebody from Italy
13
comes and stays with me. One of them, maybe the person from
Italy, wanted to stay right to the last time, the last day, and then I
took off and went to Sedona and Scottsdale and did lectures. Get
back and then I do another. It’s just like... never-ending...
[laughs]
KC: So it takes you... it kind of like links you the rest of the
people on the planet.
BH: Right. And also it pulls me and puts me in positions. Like,
I’m down here. I don’t know exactly why. But, you know, I’m
running into these people that have the need to be here, the need.
I’m finding the country to be an amazing place. And I think
there’s some really special energy spots.
And the Skull, one of the jobs it does, it works on the heart
chakra, opening peoples’ hearts to this universal love.
But what it also does is, it works on the ley lines of the Earth.
And it helps to balance out the energy. And what’s so important
with the shift that’s coming in 2012... It’s like, if the Earth is out
of balance at all when all this energy hits it, it’s gonna... You
know, it’ll just fly anywhere, you know. We really wouldn’t want
to see what could happen.
But if we can work with people on these grid lines and open up
the energy and make it in balance, then the energy hitting it could
make it a lot less. That’s one of the reasons I do this.
KC: Have you been to Stonehenge and to Egypt, to the
Pyramids?
BH: I have to go to Egypt to the Pyramids. And the Skull has
been at Stonehenge. Yes.
KC: So you still have to go to the Pyramids.
BH: Yeah. And I feel that’s important, one of my important
things -- that I need to go. It’s not just there. I think it’s Spain,
Thebes, or wherever, that area is supposed to be special area. It
has some kind of energy I need to go to.
KC: OK.
BH: But I find that where I’m supposed to go, people call and
say: Hey, we’d like to do a lecture here. It seems to be the right
place. So if that’s the place, we’ll be there.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: I see.
BH: OK. It was found in 1924.
KC: I listened to your lecture...
BH: Right.
KC: ...but wasn’t sure where you kind of stepped in.
BH: OK. Yeah. What happened is, it was found... F.A. Mitchell-
Hedges had it since the Mayans gave it back to him in 1927.
KC: But that marvelous young girl found it.
BH: Yes. It was his adopted daughter Anna. They found it
together.
KC: OK.
BH: But he had it till ’59. When he passed away, it went back to
Anna and she had it till 2007.
KC: Really!
BH: Yeah. In 2007... But, what happened is, I met her. There’s a
lot of things in Anna’s life and Mitchell-Hedges’ life that had
paralleled things that happened to me. I was in Panama, a lot of
the places they were at. And I had an open connection right away
to the Skull when I saw pictures of it. In ‘81 I heard about it,
where it was at, and I went up to see her and met with her and we
became really good friends.
And she allowed me to go with her when she did different
lectures and stuff all over the world. And so I was able to take her
around the world to all these different sites, spiritual sites, around
the world. And so that was... We became really good friends.
And she’s an amazing, amazing person, someone I have total
respect for. She’s a really neat person.
14
KC: So is she still alive?
BH: No. What happened is, she traveled with... You know, she
moved from place to place a lot, so she moved from Canada to
England, England back to Canada. These were full moves, with
new houses and everything.
KC: Right.
BH: And then she came back in early 2000. And she was in
Canada, and she was very sick. And I talked to her on the phone
and I said... There was no one really around her at the time. So I
said: Come to Indiana and I’ll take care of you. And she decided
to do that. And she came down there. And she spent the last 8
years of her life with me, and I took care of her.
And she taught me what she wanted to be done with the Skull,
how it was supposed to be handled, and what she believed in.
And so I gave my word. And that’s what I’m doing right now, is
carrying out my word. My word was that I would take the Skull
up and make it available to people that felt the importance of it,
OK? People that felt... Not everybody is drawn to the Skull, but
some people are really drawn to the Skull and they come from all
over. So by opening it up to those people, that’s part of what
I...my promise...that I promised to her. And that’s what I’m
doing.
KC: OK. And what is... like, was there a religious significance
for Anna and the Skull?
BH: And the Skull? Well you know what, Anna and myself...
You know, I’m a very spiritual person. I feel the connection to
god very closely and very importantly. I’m not at this point in my
life a “religious” person in the fact that I don’t believe in the
dogma of religion, but I work on the spirituality.
I’m working on... I believe that the true essence of religion is
inside, in the person, and going into that person and finding that
connection is what I feel it’s all about. And the Skull is a tool for
mankind.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The Mayas believed it was a god. To them it was like their god KC: OK.
had returned. But what it really is, it’s a tool to open the heart to
the universal love. BH: Yeah.

KC: Tall blonds.

BH: Tall blonds. Yeah.

KC: Where are you from originally?

BH: Indiana.

KC: Really?

BH: Like Indiana Jones.

So I feel a connection with the Skull and I feel, spiritually, if I
can help people, if I can help the world, and use the tool to do it, KC: OK.
that’s what I feel is a very important job.
BH: [laughs] Sounds good, right? I love adventure.
KC: Did Anna believe in the spiritual side, or did she believe in
more of the religious side? KC: That makes sense.

BH: Anna was a very spiritual person.
KC: OK.
BH: As a matter of fact, you know, we had friends... We had this
one friend, she was a secretary for Mother Theresa and worked
with Mother Theresa for a while. And she met Anna. She said
Anna had the same vibration as Mother Theresa. And that’s how
she was. She was a person that if you met her, it’s like you knew
her all your life. And she made you feel that way.
BH: Life is an adventure with the Skull. It keeps you really
going on.
KC: So in a sense you didn’t actually start your journey until
2007, would you say?
BH: No. My journey is, you know... started, as far as taking it
around and doing stuff with people, it really started after Anna
passed away. She passed away on my birthday in 2007. And she
found it on her birthday, her 17th birthday.

KC: OK. KC: Really!

BH: But she also... You know, she was very connected to the BH: Yeah. And she passed it to me on my birthday.
other side, so connected it was just like... In the last part of her
life, there was so much psychic and different forces around her, it
KC: On your birthday...
was just like unbelievable. It was like the veil between the other
side and her was just so close, it was just like it was popping
through. It was pretty amazing. So she was a very spiritual
person. And very special.

KC: So did she ever talk about any beings that were associated
with the Skull?

BH: Yes. Yeah. She felt... Well, there is different beings that
have connection with the Skull and they are the ones that work
through it. The Mayans are very connected to the Skull. The
Mayans of Lubaatun, that area, they’re not... They’re a Mayan
group that’s different than the average Mayan and they have
connections with the ETs and they have connections with the
Skulls.

KC: OK. Do you know which ETs?

BH: It wasn’t my 17th, though. [laughs]
BH: Let’s see. I’m not... I wouldn’t say... Probably Pleiadians,
probably are the ones. KC: Surprise, surprise!

BH: Yeah.
15
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Bill Ryan: Kerry, I have one or two questions. I wonder if you
could also capture me just briefly with this beautiful object.
KC: We’re here for a half hour. That’s all we have here.
BR: And that may be just about over.
KC: Other people have booked sessions, is my understanding.
BR [sits down]: I don’t come from Indiana, but I’ve got the hat...
BH: [laughs] I was admiring that hat. That’s cool.
BR: So I’ve been a little bit of an adventurer in my time. I’m
very, very curious about the Crystal Boy. Now I’m certainly not
going to be asking you any information about locations or plans
or logistics, but what is your feeling of the importance of that?
BH: I feel... You know, I feel that these different objects are
pieces of importance in a puzzle. And the Skull is an important
piece and also the Crystal Boy is an important piece.
BR: And there will be more.
BH: Yeah. When they come together, different things, or very
powerful things, can happen. I’m not saying that the Crystal
Boy...like each object has its special gift and special purpose. The
Crystal Boy, we don’t know exactly what its...what it does...but I
know it’s probably a very important piece in this overall puzzle
that we’re working on.
BR: And you do have plans to retrieve this, I assume?
BH: Yes. And, see, what it is... Well, the way I want to retrieve it
is... You know, I could have retrieved it with NBC, which would
have been fine, but I think they would not have had the right
thing for the Skull. It would not have been...
BR: The right energy.
BH: The right energy. It would not have gone to the right place.
It would probably have been locked up in some... It needs to go
with someone... You know, I would find it. but it wouldn’t be
like: Oh I want to keep the Skull with me. I’d like to find it and
16
have it go with some of the spiritual leaders, maybe down in that
area...
BR: Yes.
BH: ...as long as they’re gonna work together so we can work on
this evolvement that we’re working on.
BR: Yes. But you do have some kind of a plan for how you’re
going to handle that?
BH: Yes. I have a plan.
BR: In my sense, this is important.
BH: Yeah, I do have a plan. And it’s just... This year has been
one thing after another and I thought I would have been able to
do it by now but I just haven’t had the chance.
BR: This is a serious offer -- you must have heard this from
many other people -- if you want anyone to follow you around
with a camera, we’re equipped to do this. And it would be a huge
privilege for us.
KC: We do... We did interview somebody. Her name is Miriam
Delicado and they're talking about having a major gathering of
the Peoples of the planet, mainly with the Hopi and the Maya
coming forward and talking about the prophecies. And they feel
also that indigenous people everywhere should be sort of
connecting with this gathering. And the Crystal Skull may be an
important ingredient in that. So I’m just throwing that out to you.
This would be happening in Hopiland. And I wonder if you’ve
been to the Hopi.
BH: I’m a very good friend of someone I really care about and
respect, is Grandfather Martin, and he’s the Elder and he’s the
Prophet for the Hopi Nation.
KC: OK.
BH: And so I am very much for the Hopis and I believe in their
work and what they’re doing.
KC: And have you brought the Skull to the Hopi?
BH: Yes I have. That’s one of the things that I was drawn to do
and we did that this year.
KC: OK.
BH: And we met with them several times, just, a matter of fact,
the last time was just two weeks ago.
KC: Oh, really? OK. So you were probably right near me. I now
live in Sedona.
BH: OK. So, yeah. I was in Sedona. I was in...
KC: I thought I heard that you’d been around.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BH: Yep. Well, I was in Scottsdale. I left there, let’s see... Two
weeks ago I was in, well it wasn’t even two weeks ago, it was last
week I was in Sedona. I was in Angel Valley, doing a lecture for
Angel Valley.
KC: OK.
BH: But two weeks before that I was in Scottsdale. And then
from Scottsdale I went up to Sedona and did some work with the
Hopi and stuff. It was very interesting.
Did you ever hear of the Crystal Orb?
K, BR: No.
BH: The Crystal Orb is a very special thing. It was found about
30 years ago by a gentleman called Ray Brown. If you look on
some of the internet you can probably find some of that. He was
really big at the time. Ray Brown was scuba diving on this island
near Bimini.
BR: I’ve heard this story. Incredible story.
BH: Yeah. He went on this, and he found this in a pyramid?
BR: Yes.
BH: OK. Well the people that were with him went back out
looking for stuff and they were mysteriously killed. But he was
left. And he passed away a couple of years later, and he gave the
Orb to his teacher, telling him never to show the Orb to anybody
until the right time.
BR: Yes. Right.
BH: OK? Well I did a show for NBC, and it was about the
Crystal Skull and me looking for stuff and he wondered what I
was talking about.
And when I was doing this he watched it and he saw the Skull
and saw me and he felt that he had to show the Orb to me and
that they needed to be together. But he thought that it was
ridiculous because he didn’t know where I was or anything.
17
So what happened is, I was going out there for a lecture to an
area where I meet these two people, and they said they had a
friend there and the friend... they were talking about the Orb...and
she said: I know where it is but I can’t tell anybody. He said: Well
tell him the Skull’s coming. Maybe he wants to see it. And when
he did that, he was all excited.
We brought the Orb and the Skull together. And when we
brought the Orb and Skull together for the first time... We did it
twice, and the second time something different happened. But the
first time, the Skull turned white and the Orb turned gold.
KC: Wow. Wonderful.
BH: But the thing is, the amazing thing about that is, I have a
picture. I can show it to you.
BR: I would love to see this.
KC: Yes. We would. Absolutely.
BR: I read about this Orb in Charles Berlitz’s book on the
Bermuda Triangle many years ago and I’ve never forgotten that.
It lodged in my mind. I thought: This is incredibly important. I
thought it had disappeared.
BH: It did disappear for all those years, until it just came out.
And what happened is... You know, the Orb... It’s a crystal ball,
and it has three pyramids built inside of it.
BR: Mm hm.
BH: But... And it’s pure crystal. But when we put ‘em together,
the Skull turned white and the Orb turned gold. If you look
around his hand, you can see white light shooting around.
BR: That is amazing. Do you have plans to do more, to work
more, with the Skull and the Orb?
BH: Oh, of course, yeah. We’re just getting very good together.
As a matter of fact, a couple weeks ago I was able to get together
with them again and when we did it this time, the Skull turned
blue and the... It was blue light going all over the ground.
And the next day we’re in this room that had yellow table cloths
and yellow walls. And you’re looking at this through the
viewfinder on the camera and it was yellow walls and yellow
table cloths. And when you took the picture, the Skull turned
blue, the table cloths turned blue and the walls turned blue. And
we took about 15 pictures and every time it did the same thing.
BR: Incredible.
BH: So, some pretty strong energy that’s involved. When an
Atlantean Orb and Atlantean Skull get together it’s a major... I
think there was a connection, an old connection.
BR: And there must be more.
BH: Oh, yeah. There’s more. And that’s what we’re doing right
now, is we’re putting a call out to try to bring this stuff forward. I
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
believe a lot of the ancient people, the Mayas, or whatever, have KC: The journey is the message. Well that’s wonderful. And for
some of this stuff in their own possession that they’re afraid to the sake of the camera, can you please tell us your name?
bring out because they know if it comes out the government tries
to take it away from them.

KC: Right.

BR: And the Tibetans. They have some there, too. There’s no
doubt at all. Yes.

BH: Yeah. And I think maybe even there’s some here in

Australian. I think the aborigines might have a Skull. And there’s
a possibility that when I bring this Skull down there, we might
bring the Skulls together. And if that happens I think that could
be a major thing.

BH: My name is Bill Homann.

BR: Yes.

KC: Homann. OK. And the original person who had it was
BH: It might be one of the reasons why I’m here.
Anna...

BR: Of course. I’m sure that you feel that you’re on a great sense
of mission and you’re not totally sure what it is, but you’re going
down this river.
BH: Yeah. Just going with the flow.
BR: Going with the flow, and you don’t really understand this.
BH: OK. It was found by F.A. Mitchell-Hedges and Anna
Mitchell-Hedges. F.A. Mitchell-Hedges was a famous British
explorer. They are people that need to...people to know about...
because in this day and age you don’t have any heroes. And they
were heroes. And they did the... They walked. They didn’t just do
the talk, they did the walk, and that’s pretty neat.
So that’s one of the reasons I go around, to get people know
about their lives...

Project Camelot
projectcamelotportal.com
&
Bill Ryan
bill@projectavalon.net
&
Kerry Cassidy
kerry@projectcamelot.org

18
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
An Analysis Of
The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal Skull
The skull is made from a single block of clear quartz, and is a
near-perfect depiction of a small human skull measuring five
inches high by seven inches long and five inches wide.
Featured in The Mystery of the Crystal Skulls, by Chris Morton
and Ceri Louise Thomas, is the account of the examination of the
Mitchell-Hedges skull in 1970 by experts in quartz crystal at the
Santa Clara laboratories of the computer and electronics giant,
Hewlett-Packard.
The authors returned there nearly three decades later to interview
the then principal scientist, Jack Kusters, and the former
engineering manager for quartz devices, Charles Adams, who had
been present during the tests in 1970. They confirmed that the
study had produced the following results:
• The skull was made from a single piece of pure natural
quartz, and these are very rare in that quality.
• The quartz block would have been three times the size of the
current skull, and even with modern tools it would have taken
a year to make.
• It was highly unlikely that it could have been made with power
tools anyway, because the delicate, detachable lower jaw
would have almost certainly shattered from the vibration,
friction and heat.
• Under extreme magnification, there was no sign of machine
tools being used.
• The skull had to have been made by hand or by some
unknown technique.
• It would have taken 'several generations' to carve by hand;
one estimate was '300 man-years'.
19
• It was impossible to say how old it was, as quartz crystal
does not age.
The experts pointed out that an estimated 80% of the earth's
surface contains quartz crystal, but large pieces of pure quartz
like this one are very uncommon. They said that whoever made
the skull would have had no way of knowing when they began if
there were fractures or holes inside and if they made one mistake
they would have had to start again with another piece of quartz.
They also found that it was made from a particular type of
crystal. The authors write:
The scientists at Hewlett-Packard were able
to uncover one more potential clue to the
mystery of the crystal skull. Other tests
showed that the skull was not only made from
a single piece of natural quartz, but from
piezo-electric silicon dioxide, precisely the
type of naturally occurring quartz that is so
widely used in modern electronics.
The piezo-electric qualities of some quartz crystal were only
discovered, in the modern world at least, by the husband of Marie
Curie in the latter years of the 19th century. It means that the
skull has a positive and negative polarity, like a battery, and is
capable of generating electricity.
The experts also identified other extraordinary properties of the
skull with regard to its interaction with electricity and light. The
authors report:
The Hewlett-Packard team also examined the
skull's unusual optical properties, such as its
ability to channel light from below, so that it
is focused out through the eye sockets.
Apparently, this is only possible on account
of the orientation of the skull's optical axis...
What this means is that light actually travels
quicker through the skull in one direction
than another. Jack explained that not only
was the skull able to perform these incredible
tricks with normal multi-directional light, but
also that if you shine directional or polarized
light at the skull, not only does the light pass
along its optical axis quicker than in any
other direction, but the skull also actually
rotates that light as it travels along its axis.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Wade Frazier Interview Transcript
“A Healed Planet & The Role Of Free Energy”
With Dr Brian O'Leary
March 2009
--- I believe that much of that so-called advanced technology tries to
mimic advanced spiritual abilities. My understanding is that much of
our advanced technology is quaint by certain “extraterrestrial”
standards, because we have a primitive understanding of
consciousness. By and large, the heart is not in charge on Earth.
- Wade Frazier
Wade Frazier, "groomed as a scientist from an early age",
became fascinated by the subject of Free Energy when just a
teenager. As is so often the case with those with a clearly
envisioned life mission when so young, his life's path then
propelled him through a series of hard-hitting experiences that
qualify him to be one of the preeminent writers on the subject
today.
Wade's website, AHealedPlanet.net, comprises over 1200 pages
of deeply thought-out, intelligent and well-informed commentary
on a number of the most important issues of our time. His direct
personal experiences include working shoulder-to-shoulder for a
number of years with Dennis Lee, who he describes as 'The
Indiana Jones of Free Energy'. Wade attests that Lee's larger-
than-life experiences, many of which Wade witnessed at first
hand (including the viability of his technology) were authentic
and occurred just as he reports on his site. He is courteously
dismissive of uninformed critics.
Brian O'Leary, writer, speaker and ex-astronaut, who many
listeners will already know - also a veteran Free Energy activist -
joined us for our 90 minute, wide-ranging conversation. We
discussed the paradigm shift that is necessary in the world for the
concept - let alone the technology - of Free Energy to be
accepted; why maverick lone Free Energy inventors find
themselves up against the most powerful hidden agendas on the
planet ('like a mouse against an elephant', says Wade); what has
20
happened to some inventors when they have 'come up against the
system'; and how if this could be effectively countered - by large
numbers of people embracing the concept AND working together
on advanced technologies - we could transform our world into
what Wade describes as paradise on Earth.
Start of interview
Bill Ryan (BR): This is Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from
Project Camelot. It’s Friday the 27th of March, 2009, different
time zones in different parts of the world. I’m in Europe. Kerry is
in Los Angeles. Brian is in Ecuador. Wade, you’re in Seattle? Is
that right?
Wade Frazier (WF): Yes.
BR: We’re delighted, Wade, to be talking with you. Wade
Frazier, like Brian O’Leary, who we had the great pleasure of
meeting and talking with at length in Ecuador back in January, is
a veteran free-energy activist.
Brian O’Leary was on the astronaut program, is himself a veteran
free-energy activist. He’s done a lot to investigate phenomena on
the fringes of mainstream science, is a very accomplished
speaker, has been everywhere and knows everyone, and we are
very proud to feature him as one of the Witnesses on our site.
But not so many people will have heard of Wade Frazier. His
website, which is called ahealedplanet.net, has 1,200 pages. It is
encyclopedic in its scope and it tells Wade’s story of a non-stop
running skirmish with the whole issue of free energy. And you're
taking to heart this, as a cause, which is very much what Brian
O’Leary has done.
Some people think that free energy is all about an inventor sitting
in a garage or a basement with a bunch of electronics and
magnets, and getting a little machine to work that will light up a
light bulb and everyone thinks: Gee Whiz! This is a neat little
device here. It’s an alternative to having a windmill in my
garden.
And this is very far from the point, because free energy is at the
hub of so many issues that are connected with how our planet is
run and controlled, that it really is one of the very central places
to start.
Wade, and what he has to say about free energy, needs to be
heard. It’s a very, very important story. And, what I’m looking
forward to here in the next hour or so is a conversation primarily
with Wade and Brian O’Leary, to talk about why free energy is
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
something that we should care about, why it should be
politicized, why it affects every corner of our lives.
And for those people who have ventured into this area with
practical intentions, it’s proved to be quite a dangerous path for
them to tread because they can really interfere with the agendas
of others.
This is really what I would like to talk about. It isn’t going to be a
technical conversation. It’s going to be a conversation about the
paradigm shift that’s necessary for free energy to be ushered into
this world in the 21st century.
And I wonder, Wade, what it is about free energy that has made
this virtually your life mission? Why is it so important? Why
have you devoted so much of your time and your soul to this
cause?
WF: Thank you, Bill. As you know, it was a very long story that
began when I was a child. I’m over 50 now, but my journey in
the alternative energy area began when I was a teenager.
I was groomed to be a scientist from a very young age. And when
I was 16 years old, one of my professional mentors had invented
an engine which was considered the best for powering an
automobile. It created quite a lot of interest from the federal
government in the United States. In fact, they spent millions of
dollars developing and analyzing it.
But also it never went anywhere. And, in fact, the inventor was
told that if he thought his engine was going to make the internal
combustion engine obsolete, he should start making his funeral
plans. And so this was, you know, my introduction to this whole
area, back in 1974.
BR: That was when you were still a teenager, Wade. Is that
right?
WF: Yes. I was 16. I was 16 years old and at that time I had the
dream of changing the energy paradigm in this world. At age 16 I
had no idea what I could do about it, but it was a dream that I
had. And so then I continued my science studies.
And so, I think very importantly... In fact, most of the people that
I’m aware of in this field, we generally have some kind of
mystical orientation because we’ve had some experiences that
sort of opened our paradigm to kind of beyond the “scientistic”
paradigm, and saw a broader picture. Fellow travelers in this
field, I think most of them would say, that that was probably key.
Anyway, so... I then, you know, went to college and had some
strange experiences that changed my studies from chemistry to
accounting. Then I got out of school and went to work in Los
Angeles and, you know, did my CPA thing.
After several years of kind of being frustrated in the corporate
world, I had another very strange set of events, capped with a
paranormal experience, that lead me directly into a company up
here in Seattle. This was 1986. They were marketing energy
conservation equipment here in Seattle. Basically it’s a heating
system that would save 80% of your heating costs.
21
I joined the company as it was actually being bludgeoned out of
existence by the energy interests up here in the Northwest.
Because of that childhood dream and my background, even
though the company was destroyed, the founder couldn’t get rid
of me. So I ended up following him across the country to Boston,
and then that’s when we started pursuing free energy, if you will.
The technology that we were pursuing was actually marrying the
heat pump that Dennis Lee, the guy in Seattle, was marketing,
with the engine that my old mentor developed. [laughs] We were
actually trying to marry those together. Then we ended up in
Ventura, California, which is where I was raised, and then started
making a lot of noise.
I mean, my partner, Dennis – he’s the Indiana Jones of
alternative energy. He’s been behind bars, you know, survived
murder attempts. Currently the Federal Trade Commission’s
trying to shut him down.
Anyway, in Ventura then, we really got the attention of the
people who I will say manage the energy paradigm on this planet.
We received an offer in Boston and then we received another one
in California. My partner was offered a billion dollars to fold up
the operation and go away. The offer was made by a CIA man
who said he represented European interests.
A month after my partner declined their offer, then he found
himself in jail with a million-dollar bail. The man who arrested
him got promoted to be in charge of the jail, you know, a couple
weeks later, and got an award, and all these kinds of things.
So anyway, it was quite a radicalizing experience for me because
they eventually took their masks off in Ventura to me and
admitted to my face that their job was to take us out. So they did
their best, and it was actually a pretty good job. They, you know,
wrecked many, many lives.
I ended up leaving Ventura back in 1990 after a couple of us
essentially sprung Dennis from jail. He ended up only spending
two years behind bars. And then I spent the next twelve years
trying to figure out what I had just lived through and realized that
probably everything I thought I knew was probably not true.
And so then, the result of those twelve years of research... I don’t
know, I probably read a quarter-million pages of material or
something like that, and again, turned it into the website that I
have today.
And yes, Bill, it’s a thing that the energy situation... Humanity
rides on top of it. In fact, humanity always has. Life on Earth, the
human journey, it’s all... The energy situation is at the root of all
that.
And so an energy scarcity has defined the human journey. Even
though I live in the richest, most powerful nation in history and
the average American consumes 80 times the calories that go into
their diets, but we’re still a scarcity-based society.
The increasing level of energy use that the West has enjoyed has
definitely transformed our society in many ways. It took a lot of
old social structures and made them obsolete, you know. Slavery
began with early civilization and ended with early
industrialization. The liberation of women... all these things.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
There’s an essentially economic basis that underlies that, which is
powered by energy.
And what we found was that there’s people who manage the
energy situation on a global basis. It can be debated who they are,
what their motives are. Could they just be protecting their
market? I tend to believe that they are maintaining their global
power structure. That’s my conclusion.
And again, I’ve run into fellow travelers since then, Brian among
them, who... we’ve generally come to about the same vicinity of
understanding the problem, the issues, and the opportunities and
what’s possible.
So I’m aware, and I think Brian is, and most of us are aware that
there are energy technologies. You know, the guy tinkering
around in his garage, if he ever really comes up with something,
then he does attract the attention of the global controllers, I’ll call
them.
And in fact, people who poke their nose into this pretty deeply...
Again, it’s risky business. There’s a lot of people who have had
their lives wrecked, or they’re dead, or they’re silenced
somehow.
But some people, like Steven Greer who’s a warrior -- or Dennis
-- he ended up banging on the front door of the White House and
all this kind of stuff. And eventually Greer interacted with at least
a faction of this global control organization. They admitted that
they’ve paid 100-billion dollars in “quiet money” over the last
couple generations to put the lid on “disruptive technologies”.
And I would say free energy is probably at the top of that list,
although my understanding is, from people very close to me
who’ve witnessed some of these things, that antigravity... the
people that you interview on your Project Camelot site. A lot of
the things that I hear them say are things that I’ve also had
experience of.
And so, we kind of come to the same general vicinity. But my
message, and I think Brian’s... essentially there’s a big picture to
see here, and the energy situation is really the keystone of the
thing.
And, as far as why free energy and what it can bring about seems
to be so unimaginable in our societies. I don’t know how
conspiratorial that’s been, because eventually, after all my years
of study and experience, etcetera, and being introduced to Bucky
Fuller’s work, I came to realize what these ideologies have that
keep us from seeing the big picture.
They all are scarcity-based and so they all have a scarcity-based
component to them. And in fact they also have a component
where, if you have your allegiance to this certain ideology, then it
feeds you. And so you’re very reluctant to give up your belief
system.
So free energy, etcetera... there can be an abundance-based
foundation of our society, which... the human journey’s never
seen that. So it’s something that really... it’s difficult to wrap
your head around. It takes a long time to do that.
22
And what I found is you have to really lay aside all your
conditioning of your scarcity-based kind of ideologies like
capitalism, or nationalism, or a lot of the scientism, the rationalist
/ materialist paradigm. All these things are very subtly scarcity-
based. I mean, some are less subtle than others, but in the end
that’s what they have all in common.
And so, what free energy ends up doing is you can actually
replace that scarcity assumption with an abundance assumption.
It’s a shift that would be... we’ve never seen it before.
I mean, in fact all of the epical so-called revolutions of the human
journey -- the super-predator revolution, or the domestication
revolution, or the industrialization revolution -- essentially
humanity was able to tap into another energy source and control a
bunch more energy in a way that was able to free up people
beyond survival.
I live in the United States and it’s been a pretty comfortable
existence to be an American, even though most Americans today
are wondering if they’re going to lose their job next week.
BR: Walking some of our listeners through this world that you
describe as a thought experiment... Supposing there was a little
black box in every house and in every truck, or in every plane
there’s a slightly larger black box, and every power station has a
really big black box. And this black box just gave as much output
as one needed at zero cost once you’ve actually got this thing
there. How does the world change? I’ve love to ask Brian’s view.
Brian O’Leary (B’OL): Hi. Hello everybody. It’s good to be
talking with you again, Bill, and to hear you’re reading Wade,
because certainly both Wade and I have had parallel pathways of
discovery, of stepping outside of the box of mainstream thinking.
It’s taken quite a while, and it can be a very painful process. It’s a
process that the general public now is, I think, beginning to
awaken to.
In answer to your question, Bill, imagine a world where we have
these, say, little 10-kilowatt power-packs that you can put in your
circuit-breaker box or under the hood of your car. The world
would change overnight. Let’s say we made two or three billion
of these...
Now, I’m not saying that I necessarily advocate doing this under
the system we now have. And that, of course, then begs the
question of political and economic control, and some of the
reasons why this technology has been so suppressed. And believe
me, Wade and I have personally had many, many experiences
around that since our own awareness became more pronounced.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So what I see happening is that this new world -- as long as the
governments of the world and the corporations of the world
change systemically--and that’s been my plea...
Gosh, on my website I just posted a letter to Obama. It was an
open appeal, basically, to please address the systemic changes we
need so that we can usher in some of these new technologies in a
very benign way, that we can do things differently, that we don’t
want Dick Cheney running this one, too. Nor do we want the
current US government, such as it is, to be running this one.
Obviously these technologies are a big threat to vested interests,
whether you’re a scientist... And we know that the whole history
of science is just riddled with denial of new developments,
whether it was during the Copernican revolution, the time of
Keppler, Galileo. The Wright Brothers -- their initial flight, the
reporter that reported it was far from its position and Scientific
American about a year later ran an editorial, a scathing editorial,
denying that aviation ever existed - because it wasn’t reported!
Historically we can look at the structure of scientific revolutions
– Thomas Kuhn’s book – and I know Wade is acutely aware of
this. We’ve both been studying this kind of thing about paradigm
shifts many times, and it’s now happening once again in spades.
And as Wade points out, the energy picture in our time is
probably more important than anything else.
And so we have to kind of break this down and look at this from
a sociologist’s point of view as: Who’s doing the suppressing and
why are they doing the suppressing? And what you find when
you really look at these things – because Wade and I have already
seen for ourselves numerous demonstrations of proof-of-concept
of the new energy technologies – why are they so violently
suppressed?
So you have this unwitting alliance among scientists, corporatists,
governments. Even progressives - people who otherwise might
want to embrace this possibility - even the progressives are not
looking at these things, and that, of course, is the saddest part.
And so, in our own way Wade and I kind of in parallel
discovered that there is a whole process. It’s an emotional
process. It’s a sociological one, where people who are trying to
protect their own interests seem to dig their heels in even more
than they otherwise would have, in order to protect their careers
or their vested interests.
So the scientists... most of the mainstream scientific community,
just like in the early days of aviation, are denying the possibility
of free energy and will go out of their way to debunk it. And
there certainly have been many, many examples of that.
But it’s not only the scientists. It’s the government itself. It’s the
progressives. It’s... The people that call themselves
environmentalists are obviously not radical enough. They’re
thinking of things like solar energy and wind energy.
But, you know, one of the disappointments I came to, back in the
’70s when I was working for Morris Udall... He was a
congressman who was running for president, and he wanted to
develop renewable clean energy, and in those days my only
horizon of awareness was solar, wind, the so-called traditional
renewables.
23
But then a later study, if you look at the cost and benefits, you
find that solar and wind is materials-intensive; it’s land-intensive;
it’s capital-intensive. We’re talking about tens of trillions of
dollars to invest in a whole new system of solar or wind to
provide the world with its power, and that’s just not going to fly,
especially in today’s economic climate.
We need to be smarter about this. We need to look into the 21st
century, towards those technologies that will truly give us a clean
energy society.
And my own discovery... During the 1980s and ’90s I traveled
the world and visited some of the best and brightest inventors and
wrote some books about this. And I finally came to my Ah-ha!
that indeed this could change the world if it were implemented
properly.
So this whole new energy activism that Wade and I share is a
great enthusiasm, but there’s also this undercurrent of sadness
about how our planet, and almost of all of nature, is being
destroyed by a cancerous humanity that is not awakening to these
possibilities, which could then buy us a little time while we really
try to reform our culture and do the systemic changes that we
really need to do.
BR: Brian, thank you. That’s a wonderfully articulate
presentation of the problem and presentation of the challenge.
I’d like to ask Wade if you could tell the second-hand story of
this free energy pioneer, whose credibility you feel is total, who
you said was shown by “The Powers That Be” what technology
they actually have. And it was explained to him why they’re
keeping this secret. This is a story that people need to hear.
WF: Yes. During my years I came in contact with quite an
interesting group of people. And anyway, one of my very close
associates, yes, was shown – in a very remote setting – some of
the technologies that exist today on Earth: antigravity, free
energy. These technologies exist, you know.
And for me, I put my jigsaw puzzle together of the picture at least
that I see from all of this. And the people who have really been
out there – I mean, it’s not for the timid – and the people who
have survived anyway being out there and come back to tell what
they’ve experienced... And the picture that I see is that the people
who are calling the shots on the planet like calling the shots on
the planet, and they don’t want to give that up.
Energy independence would truly make everybody independent.
And so, we are so energy dependent. We are so dependent on
other people providing us our energy. If we actually had our own
source of it, the very centralized, very secret, hierarchical
political-economic-social systems we have in the world would
become obsolete.
For instance, this friend of mine who had this demonstration... the
people who are currently addicted to the power that they have
over the planet, they will do whatever it takes to maintain it. And
the technologies they have are way beyond what is on the market
today. I mean, it’s Star Trek kind of stuff.
BR: Wade, did your friend tell you what it was exactly that he
was shown? And was he given an explanation for why he was
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
being shown this? And I’m assuming he must have been given an
explanation why this technology was being withheld and not
being released.
Kerry, it might be better, to help Wade, if you could take the lead
on this, because Wade is having trouble understanding my
gentleman’s accent here.
Kerry Cassidy (KC): [laughs] I know. That’s OK. I’m sorry
about that. Wade, what he wants to know, and I’d love to know
myself, what exactly was the technology that your friend was
shown?
WF: At least free energy, and at least antigravity. OK? Those
were two of the technologies that were definitely shown off. OK?
And he kind of like almost didn’t want to know a whole lot more
because the knowledge can be considered dangerous to have. But
there was a host of exotic technologies that were demonstrated,
free energy and antigravity probably most prominently.
KC: You say that technology was demonstrated. In other words,
did they see craft, for example?
WF: Oh. This was in an underground setting, so they definitely
didn’t want to fly anything around, or at least the antigravity
demonstration was probably, you know, it wasn’t something like
a mothership or something. It was pretty small.
But anyway, I’m saying these technologies were demonstrated.
And again, the people who demonstrated them admitted that they
do not have the freedom to essentially come above-board and
bring this stuff to the world. And they also, though, said that they
would like to bring it out, but it’s not safe.
KC: OK. Why was your friend shown this? Why him?
WF: Oh, why was my friend...? OK. So, my fr... Boy! This is
where I have to be kind of careful. The circles I run around in – I
have run around in; I’m kind of semi-retired from this stuff – but
again, they go banging on the front door of the White House, go
banging on the front door of the Pentagon, go banging on the
front door of some corporations.
Sometimes you get to meet the wizard. This person was high
profile at the time. They were banging on the doors. They were
stirring things up and they got a show.
KC: OK. Can you tell us what aspect of, or do you know, what
part of the military was involved in showing this stuff?
WF: In fact, this person does not even know who it was who
showed it to him.
KC: Fascinating. OK. Very interesting.
WF: This was a very, very secure operation. So secure...
KC: And where was the underground base located? Can you say
the state?
24
WF: I am not sure. I believe it was in the United States. This
person does not know where. They were taken there blindfolded.
And they get to take the blindfold off, and they’re underground
someplace, and there’s these people demonstrating something.
And they’re talking to you and they know who you are, you
know. And they’re like, they’re saying: Hey, we got some things
to show ya. It was that kind of setting.
KC: OK.
WF: Until this person wants to talk publicly about it, I am not
going to reveal too much information about it. Stuff that people
had to disclose publicly, then I will.
So, again, Dennis got a billion-dollar offer. When I was with
Dennis, we had some very interesting interactions with some of
these groups. And again, as I recall, Bill calls them white-hats
and black-hats. And we had encounters with both groups. OK?
And we would get periodically contacted by the white-hat group.
It was very cryptic. You know, all of a sudden you’re working in
the office late one night and you get a telephone call. And it’s
like: Keep up the good work. This kind of thing. And so you’re
kind of wondering: What was that all about? [laughs]
So anyway, all I know is that during my days with Dennis, we
were extremely high profile. And in fact I have written, because
it’s a little safer to disclose it now, but when I was with him in
’96, ’97 we were subjected to an extremely elaborate sting
operation that was trying to entrap us. And again, it was people
who said they were going to give us a bunch of money to make
things happen.
About a year later I heard Tom Bearden talking about a very
similar situation, saying how: Yes, they say they’re going to come
and give you all this money, but it’s dirty money, and as soon as
you sign for the money they whisk you off to prison.
And it wasn’t until... actually it was last fall that I started writing
about the financial meltdown and my interactions with some of
these players and I came to slowly realize that we were being set
up, and in fact in almost the same kind of operation that Bearden
described.
It was a very elaborate operation. It was extremely elaborate, like
with penthouses in Manhattan and sovereign nations being
involved. It was very elaborate. And I really don’t know. What
was real and what was fabricated? I don’t know. How many
people were duped and how many were in on it? I’ll probably
never know.
But I do know that we were being set up, whoever all these
people are. Again, the Federal Trade Commission right now is
trying to shut down Dennis. I haven’t been involved with Dennis
since the ’90s, but they’re trying to shut him down right now.
And when they clobbered us in Ventura, when they clobbered
him in Washington, or they were about to clobber us in Boston,
it’s usually the government that’s wielding the public club
anyway. But they’re just taking orders. I mean, they’re not the
guys really in charge of the operation.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And that’s where, you know, when Dennis got the billion-dollar
offer to fold up his tents and go away, that was not delivered...
Oh yes, CIA representing European interests, or at least that’s
what they said. So that’s... There’s your private / government,
quasi- kind of thing going on. And then, again, the government
comes and shuts you down.
The sting operation that we were being subjected to, at the same
time that I get a letter from our phone company that the Justice
Department had subpoenaed our phone records and gagged them
for six months from notifying us that they had, etcetera.
You’re kind of wondering who-all’s involved, and how many
different ways they’re coming at you. And I saw that in Seattle in
’86. I saw that in Ventura. We were subject to kind of a whole
new level of the game when I was with Dennis back in ’96, ’97.
So anyway, again...
KC: Why do you think that was, though? Was it because you
guys were so close?
WF: Why that we got the attention that we did?
KC: Yes.
WF: Oh, because my partner, he... Again, when I met him in ’86,
he was selling equipment. I mean, he was actually making an
economic impact in the marketplace. And again, the closer you
get to the market, the greater the resistance is going to be.
So, yes, a guy tinkering in his garage, they just... they leave him...
They’ll keep tabs on him, but they’re going to pretty much leave
him alone unless he really comes up with something. Then again,
he’ll get some attention.
But we had a national effort going on. He sold quite a few
millions of dollars of his heat pump. And he was trying to carpet
Puget Sound with these heat pumps which was... One calculation
was the local electric company was going to lose something like
20 billion dollars in revenues over the next 20 years and stuff.
KC: Wade, when you say the white-hats were trying to show you
this technology and they would call you up late at night and
encourage you, do you know anything more about who the white-
hats were? And did your friend actually ever have any kind of
meetings with those white-hats? Were they military?
WF: I’ll say this. I described the underground situation, and we
would get called, and then we actually did get the suave façade of
the black-hats, you know, offering us a billion dollars, and then
I’m sure they were behind what happened to us in Ventura. I do
listen. And again, for instance, Steven Greer has interacted quite
a bit in these arenas, and the picture that he has developed of
what he’s seen, I pretty much think he’s right, you know?
And so, in fact when they mentioned the 100-billion dollars in
“quiet money”, I was going: Well that makes perfect sense.
Because just in my journey I’ve run into quite a few inventors
who had been bought out, threatened, killed, this kind of thing.
And when I heard that, 100-billion dollars in quiet money, it
made perfect sense.
25
Brian’s friend, John Rappaport, he said there’s eight economic
cartels on the planet that kind of divvied up the world economy. I
won’t deny that because I’ve seen similar activities taking place
in medicine, media, these kinds of things.
KC: Wade, can you talk about the white-hats, though?
WF: I will talk about the white-hats. So, it’s interesting. I have
one person I encountered once who was abducted, drugged, and
put into an insane asylum. And when they were in this asylum –
and it was a way to keep him quiet – there were kind of white-hat
people in the asylum who were kind of looking out for him. I’m
sure you guys have encountered this in some of the things I’ve
read on your site, where this kind of thing goes on. So there are
these kind of surreptitious white-hat people.
And I don’t know exactly how that structure operates, but my
understanding is that the, let’s say two- to three-hundred people
who are kind of the policy-makers for the world economy... I
would say 30 years ago it was a very small fraction of them, like
five percent, or maybe just a few here and there, who were kind
of not really sure they liked the program any longer.
Several years ago I heard Greer say that it’s almost 50 / 50 now,
to where the so-called white-hats... I don’t know how white those
hats are but I believe that there’s a definite fracture in that
structure, to where a lot of them realize that we’re going to turn
the Earth into a cinder on the path we’re going. And so, they
don’t like that program. They have grandchildren and this kind of
thing.
And so I think there has been a fracturing happen because the
game’s getting pretty scary for them and so they don’t want it. So
I don’t know how white those hats are. But I believe that what
my friend was shown in the underground setting was some
faction of that disenchanted half. That is my perception.
KC: So you believe that these people basically took care of your
operation in Ventura. They closed it down, in essence. Right?
WF: Oh yes. In fact, when they raided us I was 29, young and
naïve, and 13 armed deputies come in, kick us out of the
buildings. And then they ransack our chief researcher’s office,
strip it out to the walls, and then didn’t start the so-called
“official search” for several hours later, said they never were in
the room... except the researcher and one of our machinists, who
was out behind the building, was able to actually see into the
building and watch them ransacking the office. So this was when
they first raided us.
So at that moment we realized that this had nothing to do with
trying to see if we’re committing crimes or not. I mean, they were
committing the crimes right off the bat. Anyway, at that moment
we realized that... I mean, I realized that definitely this had
nothing to do with trying to protect the public or anything like
that.
And then, for me though, it was a thing of... It wasn’t until I was
on the witness stand - and Dennis was in leg irons and with a
million-dollar bail - and the prosecution is actually making faces
at me as I’m on the witness stand. I mean, it’s kind of a Stalinist
show-trial atmosphere. In fact the guy making faces at me was
the guy who was in charge of the jail that Dennis was in.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And then at that moment, that was essentially my radicalizing
moment, where a twelve-year journey of gradual disillusionment,
etcetera, sort of came to a head for me and I kind of: Ah-ha! That
was kind of my big Ah-ha! moment was then, sitting on the
witness stand where they’re making faces at me as I’m testifying.
KC: Wade, I’d like to go over to Brian... what you can say about
how the world needs to change in order to accept free energy and
whether you think that there’s actually any hope at the moment
for that happening?
BO’L: Very good question, Kerry, and I wish I could answer it
simply, because who knows what The Powers That Be are doing
in quiet session right now.
What I can say is that the concepts are there. There’s a very clear
possibility we can develop these things, and there are many of us
who’ve been advocating it for a long time. It seems like the
political climate hasn’t really changed.
On the other hand, the public is getting really pissed off at what’s
happening. Certainly the economic demise we’re all going
through right now is perhaps a metaphor or symbol, an archetype,
for what could happen in the energy area, that even the protestors
– the Bill McGivens of the world or the so-called free thinkers
about peak oil or global warming, whether it’s James Hansen or
Richard Heinberg or all of these other people who have
advocated radical change – still do not embrace the possibility of
free energy.
So even though some of us, Wade and I and a number of others,
have been attempting to educate some of these more visible
progressive people about the possibility of free energy... and I’ve
even had conversations with Congressman Dennis Kucinich
about it and he did carefully listen. He did acknowledge it. He did
want to introduce legislation to support the research and
development on it and make this publicly more visible.
Even though all of these things have been acknowledged and
communicated, the fact remains that the consensus among the so-
called progressives is still a complete denial about the possibility
of free energy.
And that, to me, was the most astounding discovery I made that –
having done almost two decades ago my world travels to find out
for myself as a scientist that indeed these concepts are very real;
there are many, many different parallel technologies, any one, or
some of which could do the trick – but whenever it comes time
for actual development of it, that’s when people step in.
And that discovery which I made on my own, and Wade has
made it on his own, and many, many others – Tom Bearden –
many, many other people on the cutting edge of these
technologies have all come to believe that the world is definitely
controlled by a cabal of people who don’t want this to happen.
That’s the saddest part of it, is the lack of awareness among most
people in the world that this is even a possibility. And if I were to
develop policy, my own thinking is that: Well, we should leave
no stone unturned in our quest for clean energy, and creating a
world of abundance.
26
But somehow that’s perceived by The Powers That Be as a threat
to them, just like significant economic reform – or economic
revolution is probably a better word now for the situation we’re
in – has been vehemently opposed by Wall Street and the people
in charge. They’re digging their heels in.
So we’re involved in this incredible storyline that’s probably
more sensational than anything that could be dreamt up in
Hollywood. And unfortunately most people have been very slow
to awaken to this possibility.
Because in a sense the politically palatable way of presenting this
material is that, simply: This is a possibility. Let’s look at it. Let’s
see how we might be able to implement it. Let’s see what kind of
world we can have with this implementation. These are the
questions that need to be asked now.
KC: OK. Thank you, Brian. Wade, what do you think about the
potential for free energy now, after you’ve been through all that
you’ve been through? Politically, I mean... What do you think the
chances of actually turning the tide, as you say, using white-hats
who are obviously, you know, not happy with the situation? And
there are many people behind – they’re very unhappy with the
current situation. They’re looking for news ways of doing things.
Do you think that the climate is such that perhaps this new energy
technology can now come through?
WF: I think you’re kind of getting to the nub of the matter here.
In my work – and again the things I realized, and this was
through my radicalizing experiences – there’s the black-hats and
the white-hats and they’re definitely doing their thing.
At the same time, they’re really not very powerful. I mean,
you’re talking, you know, maybe a few thousand people out of 6
billion people, you know. And they have definitely a lot of tricks
in their bag and these kind of things.
But when the dust settled in Ventura I realized that if I had a
hundred Dennis's, free energy would have been easy. It would
have been... We’d have been unstoppable. But there’s only a few
of him on the planet.
So, the thing is for me, is that it’s not about the white- and black-
hats. It’s about us, the great unwashed masses. We can make it
happen. But we can’t make it happen if we can’t even imagine
that it can be better.
That’s the message that I’m trying to get across. I’m trying to
make free energy thinkable. I’m trying to make it to where... to
bring it out of, either as Bill said, some guy tinkering in his
garage, or some Star Trek fantasy or something, to say: Now
these things, I know they’re real. I know they’re possible. And the
outcome of that...
I’ve been living with this for many years. I can barely imagine
what it could do. The whole course of the human journey could
change very dramatically. And so, I think if enough people kind
of understood that, it wouldn’t take very many people to just even
think about this stuff to maybe create enough momentum to go in
the direction of helping it happen.
Because what happens is, the people pursuing these things,
they’re out there alone in the desert. I mean, that’s the problem.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
They’re out there alone in the desert and they’re so vulnerable.
Again, most people just take the money. So the 100-billion
dollars in quiet money... I bet that worked 95 percent of the time.
They just took the money and it was over.
KC: And when you don’t take the money, what do you think
happens to the people when they don’t take the money?
WF: Then they start playing rough.
KC: OK.
WF: And again, most people take the money. In fact, again,
Bearden, I heard him talk eleven years ago or so about this. And
so what they do is, it’s a carrot and stick.
They’re very subtle. I mean, it’s a very... how to say it? If they
came right out in the open and it was very obvious what they
were doing, too many people would catch on. So it’s a very
sophisticated, very subtle kind of way they operate. You know, it
took me over ten years after the sting operation almost nabbed us
for me to kind of figure out what was going on. And so it’s very
subtle.
And Bearden talks about how they operate. Again, what I’ve
seen, I think he’s right. And also what I’ve seen, though, is that
one provocateur set loose in the midst of 100 average people?
Provocateur prevails. I mean, particularly when you start having
the pressure of like we were experiencing in Ventura and Seattle.
KC: So what is it... do you think that they’re still after you, so to
speak, in that they’re still messing with you and the people that
you know that are working in this area?
WF: Oh God! Oh sure!
KC: Do you think they’re still messing with you?
WF: I don’t know of an issue of a greater magnitude than the
energy issue that humanity’s facing right now. Oh my God, we’re
having wars in, you know, Asia, killing millions of people and
stuff over the hydrocarbons. The issue is so multi-faceted, it’s so
immense, that... Oh yes, this is being very carefully managed.
And again, these “disruptive technologies” are very carefully
monitored. I mean, what my friend saw was somehow somebody
snuck something out the back door and demonstrated some of the
stuff, you know? It’s very tightly controlled to make sure that
“disruptive technologies”, particularly like free energy, do not
appear on the scene.
You know, it’s possible that it’s going to come down to the
white-hats and black-hats. It’s possible that’s how it’s going to be
determined. Part of me hopes that’s not how it happens. Part of
me hopes that enough of us kind of make enough noise in a
positive way.
But if enough people understood the potential, understood what
was possible, and understood how important they could be to
help making that happen by just simply lending their awareness
to the issue... That’s what I’m trying to find out. I think that that’s
a way that it can happen.
27
KC: Thank you, Wade. That’s great. Brian, I would like to ask
you, because it sounds like you and Wade are actually on the
same page with this, as far as what’s necessary next is to get the
word out in such a way that people become educated so that the
mass of people can actually maybe turn the tide. Is that your
feeling?
BO’L: Absolutely, Kerry. And indeed Wade and I are on the
same page. And it’s not very many of us on this planet that are on
the same page right now, so it’s kind of a lonely process. But to
the degree that we can at least instill in enough people the fact
that these things are very real, that the concepts have been shown
to exist, that their development requires an R & D effort like
anything else that involves new technologies. This certainly has
happened in information technology quite abundantly.
KC: So, Wade, what are you doing now? I mean, I know you’ve
kind of run a very hard race, it sounds like, trying to get this stuff
out there. Are you in touch with some people now that are
actually working on free energy that are being interfered with?
WF: Yes. Yes, there’s some. I look through it, on my journey I
saw enough of people like me going through similar things. Brian
is in contact with many more of those kind of people than I am.
I’m aware of quite a few. I’m in touch with some. And I love
them, these people who are trying to do these things, but where I
am is that they don’t have any support.
KC: Your effort is to drum up the support?
WF: Yes!
KC: In other words, you’ve kind of changed your tactic from
encouraging or working on free energy directly yourself, to trying
to drum up a grassroots effort?
WF: In the end, if I can have a part in helping people just
imagine that it’s possible, for me that... I’m done. I mean, if I
achieve that, I will have achieved, you know, something that I
would be happy to achieve. That would be enough for me to just
help enough people understand that these things are feasible, and
what can come out of that.
Yes, that’s where I’ve been since 1989 when I sprung Dennis
from jail. I was pretty much done. And again he got me to rejoin
with him back in ’96, ’97. I was only there a few months but it
was a thing where I haven’t really been actively involved in
doing the Indiana Jones thing for, again, 20 years.
And again, three years was... That was enough. It was enough for
one life for me of doing that. In fact, I don’t know how Dennis
does it. Some of these people, I don’t know how they do it. I
really don’t know.
KC: When you say you don’t know how they do it, you’re saying
you don’t know how they deal with the opposition that they get?
Is that what you mean?
WF: No-no. I mean, so here’s Dennis, survived a number of
murder attempts, been behind bars twice for two years, almost
got killed inside there, turned down a billion-dollar offer to go
away. There’s now, again, there’s going to be some TV show’s
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
going to smear him on Sunday. The FTC’s trying to shut him
down, and he’s still at it! That’s the part I’m going: How do you
still keep doing it? So that’s the thing that, for me, boggles my
mind, you know.
Or again, there’s other people. I mean, Greer’s one of them. They
go through immense hardships, and they come back for more.
And for me, that’s...
Like Brian. Brian’s been doing this for a long time. And I’ve
been doing it, but I don’t play at their level. And that’s the thing.
I tried to do something different and again, the ride was too rough
for me. The ride was too rough. And I said: I can’t afford to do
that anymore. Anyway, that’s kind of what I was saying, is that I
don’t know how some of these people are able to do what they
do.
KC: Are you familiar with Ralph Ring? Ralph Ring is a free
energy person from way back. Back in the ’60s, the FBI came in
and closed him down when he was working with Otis Carr. So I
wondered if perhaps you knew about him. He’s quite elderly.
WF: No.
KC: He’s actually now back at it. He’s back at work trying to get
funding, and...
WF: I have nothing but admiration...
KC: So do you give advice to these people? I mean, you know,
John Hutchison, for example. Do you know him?
WF: Yes. I’ve interacted with Mr. Hutchison. Oh man... it’s
hard, because I can... I mean, that they’re still trying to do... That
they’re trying to do it is so honorable and wonderful, and the
odds against them are so immense. I mean, they’re so immense in
today’s world. And so, I mean, it’s like a mouse trying to take on
an elephant, you know. And you’re seeing this and my heart goes
out to these people for this.
And again, I’m trying to say: I’m trying to get you some help by
helping more people to become aware of what’s going on.
Because most of these people, they just end up... as Brian said
this is a lonely, lonely journey. They can’t do it by themselves.
My opinion is? They don’t have a prayer by themselves. They’re
too vulnerable. It’s easy to take them out. You know, we had
hundreds and hundreds of people involved when they took us out.
It takes more. It takes more people with the right stuff.
KC: Do you think times have changed sufficiently to where there
might be a chance for these people, because of the downturn in
the economy and the discontent that’s out there?
WF: Yes, I believe that the big shifts will happen quite often
when the current structure kind of crumbles. Right? So it does
bring opportunities.
Yes, these are very pregnant times. I believe that we are in the
middle of quite a transition. Whether we make it or not is
probably still an open question, but I think we are in this
28
transitory time when the old ways are starting to crumble. So yes,
there’s lots of opportunity.
And again, what Brian is trying to do, what I’m trying to do is to
give extremely positive solutions that are right there! It wouldn’t
take much to turn this into heaven on Earth. It really wouldn’t
take that much to do that. Definitely there’s more people who are
pulling up from the dream, let’s say, that we’re all kind of fed,
and trying to see differently. So yes, I think there’s opportunity.
KC: Well it’s wonderful to hear you say that. And obviously,
after all that you’ve been through, it’s really extraordinary that
you can still hold that perspective.
WF: Well, thank you, and it hasn’t been easy.
KC: [laughs] OK. Well I did want to ask you, what was your
paranormal event, or series of events, that pushed you on this
road?
WF: OK. I was this, you know, this science prodigy as a young
child. And again, my dad used to work in Mission Control, and
so... I mean, my dad left Houston just before Brian moved there,
and so we’ve had these kind of parallel...
Anyhow, I was this kind of space brat, you know, scientist’s kid.
And as a teenager I started getting introduced to some of the
pretty mundane inventions that were, compared to what’s on the
market, truly revolutionary.
And again that’s when I started kind of “getting it.” Like when I
was twelve years old, my father reversed the hardening of his
arteries by adopting a live-food diet, something that medicine at
that time said was impossible. So I was introduced to the
impossible happening at age twelve. And again, I had my
mystical awakening at age 16...
KC: OK. But what’s your mystical awakening? What do you
mean when you say your mystical awakening?
WF: OK. That’s a good question. Brian and I had the same
exercise that both initiated our mystical awakening, which was...
back then it was called the Edgar Cayce Method. Today they call
it remote viewing. But I was in a Silva Mind Control class in
1974. Brian took Life Spring in 1979.
And at the end of this training, you’re given the name, age, sex,
and city and then I was able to describe... Well, actually more
dramatically, I had somebody in mind, that I gave this
information to somebody else, and they were able to describe to
me - in startling detail - this person.
That was the beginning of my mystical awakening, was seeing
people perform psychically, very dramatically. And then it was
my turn and I was able to do the same thing. And Brian, when he
took Life Spring, he had the same experience. In fact, those
classes that were very popular in the ’70s. Millions of people
took them with similar results.
Anyway, for me, that turned something on in me and I think it
opened up my intuitive side. But again, to me it was the
beginning of my mystical awakening. And most of my fellow
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
travelers in this field, they usually had some kind of experience
like that when they were in their late teens or early 20s. Greer had
a near-death experience at 17.
One of my fellow travelers had a Kundalini experience as a
college physics student and then developed a free energy
prototype that was immediately seized, you know. And again, he
was like in his early 20s. This is a very common age when this
kind of thing happened.
And my professional mentor that invented the engine and stuff,
you know, “world’s best engine” comes to him at a stoplight!
You know? Where does that come from?
So anyway, I just had enough of those kinds of experiences and
then had some of my own experiences that really opened my
eyes.
KC: What about UFOs? Did you have any kind of encounter
experiences?
WF: Yes. I’ve encountered lots of people who’ve seen craft.
Some people have had, you know, “close encounters of the third
kind”. But I just heard a lot of this stuff. It was on my list of
things to do, was to go out and see one, and then...
Anyway, one of my fellow free energy travelers said he would go
down near Mount Adams and watch UFOs fly over. A couple of
my aerospace buddies from Boeing organized a trip here, 2005,
for us to go watch UFOs, and we got our show. And if I went
back the next two years in a row, and I got a show every year,
that would be something.
KC: Oh, you went to Trout Lake? [ed. note: in Washington state]
WF: Yes.
KC: Absolutely. We went as well, and we’ve seen James
Gilliland’s, you know, we’ve been up to his ranch and saw the
craft.
WF: Our first night there, James said: Let me see if I can get one
to do something, and a minute later one did, you know, like very
dramatically. In fact, there was an Air Force captain standing
next to me, and again, a couple Boeing guys, and it blew their
doors off, that’s for sure. So anyway. Yes. So I’ve experienced
that.
KC: Bill is telling me that when your friend had his machine
seized, that they knew it was there even though it was a secret.
Do you think they remote-viewed? They had their remote
viewers tap into the situation?
WF: You know, I don’t know on that one. I just know that,
actually it got seized twice. I’m going: Wow, they must have
pretty good surveillance to do that kind of stuff. And then again
in my circles, somebody who should know said: Oh yes. They
can tell when anybody in the planet taps into that field. And I’m
like: Oh... OK.
I don’t know exactly how they’re able to surveil and to do this
but they did. He was a physics student and he actually goes into
29
this physics lab and he bread-boards a prototype that works. I
think he was using the radiant effect, which is one of the free
energy ways out there.
He had a Men-in-Black experience a few hours later... seized the
prototype. He was kind of booted out onto the sidewalk, kind of
going: What the hell was that all about? He was probably, you
know, 21 or something. And anyway, so he’s like: They can’t do
that!
So he goes and rents out some warehouse space somewhere very
secretly under an assumed name. So he’s doing this secretly -
they’ll never find out. And he ends up making it happen again
and a few hours later, Men-in-Blackexperience again.
KC: That’s fascinating. I’m sure they surveil the entire planet for
free energy devices and I imagine they are able to pick them up
in the matrix.
WF: When I asked somebody: How’d they do that? you know,
they said: Well, they have satellite technology that can surveil the
whole planet. Anybody taps into this ZPE field, they know it. So
I’m like: Oh. OK.
And, my understanding is that if you ever tap into that kind of
stuff, it depends on who you are and where you are as far as what
their response will be. So if you’re a group of 100 people, you
know, they’re going to have to be very careful about how they do
it. But if you’re just a kid in a lab, they just send in the team. It’s
easy to take care of it with just one person.
KC: Do you think that their tactics have changed over the years?
WF: You know, I would imagine. In your journey you just hear
these various things happening, and you’re kinda going: Whoa!
Look at that. Look at that. Yes.
So what they used to, let’s say 30 years ago or so, they were
extremely violent. I mean I’ve heard of stuff like a guy’s whole
family being murdered, and then they burn the house down and
then bulldoze it, you know. And this kind of stuff has happened.
Dennis has been high profile a number of times. In Ventura we
were pretty high profile, and we were approached once.
I’m going to say probably 30 years ago, there was this guy who
was... had built a windmill farm out in the southwest. He was
rich. He was like apparently worth 400-million dollars, and he
invested 35-million dollars of his own money into this windmill
farm. He was making electricity. He was trying to sell it to
electric companies. And then he was working late at the office
one night and he gets a call and pretty much the caller made it
very clear that: You have a choice. You can either leave your
facility there, never return, or your family will be dead by dawn.
What’s it going to be?
KC: [laughs] Wow.
WF: And again, when you’re worth 400 million dollars they
can’t... what kind of carrot can you give to somebody worth 400
million dollars? So they just come right out with the stick.
Anyway, this guy, he goes: Well, I took out my calculator and I
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
banged in the numbers and that was 9 percent of my net worth.
And I just decided it ain’t worth it. He just packed his briefcase
and leaves and never returned.
And again, he tells us all this in a limo just before they dropped
the sledgehammer on us. And he said: You know, I wish you guys
the best, but you have no idea what you’re up against. So I kind
of found out what he was talking about, you know. But I’m
saying back then they used to do stuff like that. My
understanding is it’s more subtle... a subtle game that takes place
now.
WF: What do you think Brian? Do you think it’s more subtle
nowadays?
BO’L: Oh, very good question, Kerry. Yes, I think it’s a bit more
subtle now. I know I’ve had my own experiences and have
matched it with others that go back to the early ’90s – and very
unpleasant experiences where I refused to be recruited into
something and there was some recrimination and some threats
that I won’t go into in detail.
But I think if I compare my story with that of others and look at
the history of all of this... Although I can’t say for sure because
like my dear friend and late colleague, Gene Mallove, was
brutally murdered in ’04.
KC: What do you think tipped it over the edge with Mallove? Do
you think that he was too close to something or that he simply
couldn’t be brought under their wing in a certain way? Why do
you think they attacked him so brutally?
BO’L: He was a true hero. He’s one of my heroes of my lifetime.
I just tremendously respected his work because... He was the
chief science writer for MIT and in 1989 Fleischmann and Pons,
two chemists from the University of Utah, claimed to have
discovered cold fusion, which is a process that has now been
replicated many, many times over by many competent scientists.
But at that time, 1989, their claim was viciously refuted by some
of the nuclear physicists at MIT.
Well, Mallove was going to support them in debunking the cold
fusion discovery and found instead that the MIT scientists were
not only falsely debunking the evidence but actually committing
fraud. And so he had the courage to stand up to these scientists,
and to MIT, whereupon he was summarily dismissed, [laughs]
went on his own, and founded Infinite Energy Magazine, which I
think is a wonderful magazine, particularly in those days when he
was editor.
He was a real advocate of new energy, probably the most
articulate one because he was very rigorous scientifically. He
would not make any claims that couldn’t be substantiated. And
so, obviously from the point of view of the world controllers, he
was a threat. And he was also in the process of getting funding
for creating a research and development laboratory.
He had been shuttling back and forth to Washington just before
his murder, which, although the cover story of the murder was
that it was a robbery, the real story... I would say almost anybody
that knew him, including his family, are just, you know, beside
themselves in trying to find out how this happened, who did it,
30
and so forth. And so there’s an example of a real hero who was
sacrificed.
KC: Do you think that he was sacrificed because he was “one of
them” originally and because he was so articulate and getting so
close? I mean, in the sense that he worked for MIT, you know.
He wasn’t just some guy with an invention in his garage. He
actually, you know, came out of a very sophisticated background.
BO’L: Yes. I would imagine, yes, because he was one of the
shakers and movers of the field and he pulled no punches. He
also had a very, very well-grounded scientific and philosophical
perspective on the issues raised by the possibility of free energy.
And so he just... this obviously disturbed The Powers That Be.
Another example was Stefan Marinov, who was a professor of
physics at the University of Graz in Austria. And also just a few
years ago - I forgot the exact year, but it was early this century -
he “jumped” from the tenth story of his library building at the
University of Graz.
Well, he was Europe’s premier free energy advocate. I’d met him
many times, talked with him. He seemed to be a very jolly, and
very, very well-adjusted person who was doing really good
breakthrough work, even had a motor that he had invented which
he demonstrated and quite widely showed. So it’s just another
example. There are just so many examples of suppression.
John Hutchison, a dear friend of mine. We’ve toured Japan
together and he’s had... Thank God he’s still alive. He’s just a
brilliant man who has managed to develop dramatic
demonstrations of antigravity technology, with a fantastic
intuition, and just a very fine person. Well, the US military has
given him no end of problems.
So, you know, you look at these stories, one after another, and
you have to come to the conclusion that pretty consistently right
up until this moment, these developments have been suppressed.
And is it getting any better? I don’t know. I know we’ve had
these discussions, Kerry, and you have found some signs that it is
and I would love to think that it is.
I think that the people that really need to awaken here, as Wade
often suggests, that the only people that seem to awaken and are
able to peel the free energy onion are people that are already
somewhat sentient and have had experiences in a number of
different avenues – not only science, or not only being a political
progressive – but that people somehow need to go through many,
many different experiences in a variety of ways before they can
even embrace the possibility that this could happen.
I know for me, I had to go out and visit the inventors, the
researchers, myself and, you know, make it a personal project to
see these proofs-of-concept, and most people don’t have that
luxury. And so I feel for them when somebody like me... Even
though I have all these good credentials, even so, most people
that call themselves “pragmatists” will kind of roll their eyes or
glaze, and they won’t even look at the possibility that this could
be.
But then if we understand the history of science, if we understand
the famous Bertrand Russell quote: The resistance to a new idea
increases as the square of its importance...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And if we’re talking about totally revamping the economy, totally
revamping our energy system, totally revamping our whole
industrial and financial culture, which is digging its heels in
alongside the military / industrial complex, you’re talking about a
revolution here, an energy-solution revolution, which... to the
degree that people can become educated to this possibility and to
acknowledge it – or at least lean into it – to even ask the simple
question: OK, I don’t believe this is real or possible, but let’s do
a mind exercise and let’s say: “Well, OK, let’s say if somebody
comes along with a technology that could truly do this, do we
want to have it?”
And I should think that the clear answer would be Yes! as long as
we can develop social and political systems to birth this whole
new paradigm shift, and then we have a fighting chance, I think.
And Wade, I’m sure you’d totally agree that we have a fighting
chance to save the planet, to respect the Earth and nature.
KC: I think that’s wonderful, Brian. I think that, you know,
that’s a very good point and very well said by you. And Bill
wants me to say, that most great scientists are mystics.
WF: Well that’s what... I mean, if you look at the guys who...
physics rides on their shoulders today, Einstein, and Heisenberg,
and Schrödinger, and these guys, they all to one degree or
another had a mystical orientation.
And again in my own experience with my Tesla-like mentor and
again the other people, my fellow travelers, again on the cutting
edge of this free energy stuff, they pretty much all have a
mystical orientation, to one degree or another. I mean, some are
way out there. Some visit other dimensions. And some are kind
of like: Oh, I think I have past lives. So there’s a spectrum there,
but essentially they’re not materialists. I mean, none of them are
materialists.
KC: Wade, were you familiar with Mallove and his work?
WF: Somewhat. I was in contact with Mallove. And again, the
New Energy Movement was organizing its conference that it had
in 2004 and Mallove was the first speaker lined up. And anyway,
we lined him up and a week after that, which was a very strange
week, very emotional... It was a bizarre week. Anyway, he gets
murdered as I’m being emailed from one of the participants
saying: I think we’re under attack. Anyway, I had that encounter
with Mallove.
Again, the thing with Mallove, with me and his work was that I
read something he wrote less than a year before he died where he
was saying there’s three main ways to go after free energy. And
one of them was the exact thing were trying in Ventura [laughs],
which was taking atmospheric heat and being able to get useful
work out of it. And again, I was interested in what he had to say
about that, so I contacted him and we were going to have some
more exchanges, and then he died.
KC: Right. OK. I’m sorry. You had spoken about that earlier on
and I had forgotten about that association.
Well, this is really very, very impressive. Both you guys have got
such a great background in all of this and the fact that you’ve
taken even your technical skills and turned them into public
speaking, to where you would actually bring the knowledge to
31
the people and make what is in essence a grassroots movement is
really brilliant, you know. It’s really the best approach, I would
think. So I just want to say thank you from all of us for doing
that, both you, Wade Frazier, and Brian O’Leary.
Have you guys known each other for a long time?
WF: Well, I met Brian in ’91 when I actually had to pick him up
at the airport for a New Science conference. We drove right past
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and made jokes about Hangar
18, the Blue Room, and stuff, and so that’s when I met Brian.
And then when he published Miracle in the Void in ’96, I had
about 35 copies of it.
Anyway, Brian, it quickly became evident to me... I’d already
been through my salad days on the free energy front when I met
Brian, and it became very clear that Brian was hip. We’ve had
interactions over the years and he invited me to be on the New
Energy Movement board back in 2003. We’re living on different
continents right now, but as much as I can help Brian do what he
does, I’m honored to do it.
BO’L: I feel the same way about you, Wade, that some of your
insight, and our journeys in parallel and together, that our
interactions have been very important and that there’s been a lot
of learning on my part from you, in giving this a broader context
than just vetting this or that new energy concept, which people
still ask me for. They still come to me and say: Hey what do you
think of this? What do you think of the air car? What do you think
of this sonoluminescence device? I’ve now gone away from that.
I’m more interested in combining politics with these concepts
and also observing. Because I think, Wade, you helped radicalize
me in some of the writings of Noam Chomsky and Ed Herman
and so forth, that these are the kinds of guys that you would think
could awaken to this, but no, they haven’t. And the same thing
goes for Richard Heinberg.
So we keep trying to tell them: Well, what about the possibility of
this? And now and then you’ll get this scathing response from the
likes of Heinberg or Mike Ruppert or some other people that
you’d think would embrace these things, but somehow are still
very much in denial.
So it is a lonely road. And, you know, the people that I think will
be taking the lead here will be brand new people, people that will
come forward. And maybe this economic crisis is now providing
a greater opportunity - it’s my hope anyway - for us to develop a
new kind of leadership, systemically, and really start from
scratch, and to make a change we can believe in [laughs] not let it
just be empty slogans that respond to Wall Street and the military
/ industrial complex, which in turn responds to higher forces that
are somehow suppressing these possibilities.
KC: Thank you, Brian. That’s wonderful. What I’d like to do is
bring back Bill here. But I also wanted to ask both of you if you
could respond to what is it you think when you see things like,
you know, the Space Shuttle and the Space Station and the way
they’re dealing with this? What in essence is sending a tin can up
into the air, you know? [laughs] I mean, what do you think when
you see that they’re creating a new technology, supposedly
planning to go to Mars and Moon? There’s a new mission
underway. But what do you think about the technology they’re
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
going to use to do these things, the fact that they’re still relying
on this old technology?
BO’L: You know, for one, I think that we’re living in the past.
We’re living with past models that are falling apart. Ever since
the Space Shuttle was first proposed I realized that NASA was
falling apart because it was a bureaucratic invention, kind of a
miasma. And the same with the Space Station, sort of a “Tinker-
Toys” designed by aerospace companies to line their pockets.
Right now the technologies we’re using are drastically old.
They’re simply not worthwhile. They’re in the past. It’s
expensive. It pollutes the atmosphere. The Shuttle itself
contributes to the hole in the ozone layer. Every launch is
something like 10-, 15-billion dollars. We can’t afford that kind
of stuff.
KC: What do you think about the fact that they’re planning to
power the new missions using nuclear?
BO’L: Ah! That’s disaster! You know, if you get me going on
nuclear... I was the nuclear energy advisor to Morris Udall’s
Energy and Environment subcommittee of the US congress, and
our committee pretty single-handedly stopped nuclear power in
its tracks.
Any kind of nuclear technology, for anybody that looks at it, is
highly dangerous. The long-lived radioactive waste products...
we haven’t found a way to bury them. They have half-lives of
tens of thousands of years. We’re polluting the Earth for our
children and their children and for all of nature.
We’ve gotta let go of that technology 100 percent. For nuclear
technology to be used in any space application or any application
on the Earth is yet another big danger-point.
It’s sort of like right now humans are terror-forming the Earth
with various geo-engineering projects, whether it’s the
development of nuclear technology, or chemtrails, or depleted
uranium. These are all horrible, horrible projects.
And you see, we need to develop a new kind of advocacy, a new
combination of truth movements that look at all of these things –
9/11, the official story – to kind of “pop a bubble” of the sacred
myths of our time and to proceed onward with the kinds of new
technologies that are clean and cheap, like free energy. We just
have to do this! And people have to awaken. And right now, there
aren’t very many of us that advocate that.
So to the degree your listeners can begin to embrace these things
and to make the leap of faith, if you will, before really finding out
in great detail that a number of myths need to be destroyed, we
need some sort of process of truth and reconciliation. We need to
radically change our systems, and Obama is now about .00001
percent of the way in doing any of that.
So it is disappointing, but we just keep having to prevail and get
to the truth, which is always the first step toward realizing what
we need to do.
KC: Wade, what would you say about the fact that, you know,
free energy exists? It’s been out there for, I don’t know, since at
32
least the 1950s, wouldn’t you say? And yet they’re planning on
powering the next mission to Mars and the Moon using nuclear
fuel.
WF: [laughs] Well you know, Brian is the astronaut [Kerry
laughs] so I definitely defer to Brian’s opinion on those things.
But it’s a thing where...
KC: Right...
WF: Actually, what Brian was just discussing, I have a short
anecdote, which was: Dennis and I spoke at Department of
Energy hearings back in 1997 when they were trying to do the,
what’s called “the whip,” which was the low-intensity nuclear
waste, not the place in Nevada where they still... it’s not even big
enough to hold what they got today.
It was the thing where we approached them with neutralization
technology to make nuclear waste, I mean, to neutralize it. And
we were using Brown’s Gas. Long story there. But anyway,
interestingly, we spoke there and we were located right next to
this Savannah facility, like on Atomic Boulevard.
Anyway, Dennis and I spoke at a couple of hearings that day.
And the interesting thing was that the most excited person at the
hearing was the person who organized it. And at the lunch break,
he actually follows us out to the car and gives us his card and
stuff. And he said that we were the third group that attended these
hearings to present a neutralization technology.
And he said, and I’ll never forget this, he said: You know, the
people managing nuclear waste stand to make a ton of money
doing this. If your answer doesn’t make them a ton of money, it
won’t go anywhere. And then he said: You know, I’m an
underling with no power, but I’ll see what I can do, you know,
[laughs] and of course nothing happened.
Anyway, so to me, yes, as Brian said, actually using nuclear
fission to actually power these missions and stuff – it’s
nightmarish. It’s totally nightmarish. In fact, when I know that
other, [laughs] totally clean, benign technologies exist and we’re
using this, you know – extremely primitive. As Einstein said:
Nuclear fission’s one hell of a way to boil water. You know. So,
it’s just really horrifying. It’s actually horrifying that we’re doing
these things.
KC: OK. Thank you so much, both of you guys, because that’s
great to hear you say that and of course to hear, you know, an
astronaut talk about the absurdity of using nuclear fuel to send
missions out... and here we are in 2009. It just kind of boggles the
mind. This has to be a fake, you know, front game, really, for
what is really going on behind the scenes, you have to believe, in
terms of NASA and what’s really going on there. But what I’ll do
here is... Bill, can you come forward and sort of ask a few
questions yourself? And I’ll translate if necessary.
BR: [laughs] OK. Thank you. I just want to thank all of you,
actually, because ever since I realized that my British James
Bond shaken-but-not-stirred accent wasn’t totally understandable
there, I’ve been sitting in the front row of this audience, hugely
enjoying this conversation. And I want to thank you very much
for that. And, Kerry, thanks a lot for stepping into the MC’s
shoes here, because I know that you hadn’t prepared yourself
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
quite as much for this interview as I had by reading Wade’s
voluminous 1200-page website that I invite anyone to take a
lucky dip into because it is encyclopedic.
Brian has already answered the final question that I wanted to put
to you both, which was what changes does he really hope to see
in his lifetime?
And what I would like to do is just to ask Wade briefly... if you
can say something to that, that would inspire any young activists,
because they are out there. We hear from them regularly, people
who are on a steep learning curve, and a lot of energy, and who
haven’t yet had that energy blunted. We know that they’re out
there, and those people will find a way to listen to this
conversation because it’s going to be very important to them.
And the opportunity here is to leave those people with something
that will inspire and encourage them to pick up the torch which
you two have both been carrying, and of course many others have
been carrying this torch as well. What can you leave these young
warriors with, to help them continue with what you’ve considered
your life’s work to be?
WF: Well thank you. What my message would be is: You are not
pursuing something ephemeral. You’re pursuing things that are
very real. OK? These are very real. This stuff’s real. It’s not a
fantasy. It’s not some crazy conspiracy theory. This is very real
stuff. And the potential of this is something that none of us can
really fathom. We really can’t fathom what the potential of
something like this is. And so, I don’t know... I mean, I don’t
know... to me that seems worthwhile!
KC: You know, Wade, your life itself and also Brian’s life, both
of you are an inspiration in itself. I mean, your actual life
33
experience - and sharing that - is very powerful. And I’m very
happy that Bill was scientifically astute enough to be able to
target and find you out because you’re not really in the
mainstream at the moment. But you’re obviously a person that
deserves great respect, as does Brian. And it’s really lovely to
hear you speak about your background and all, so I just want to
thank you very much, both of you.
BR: I think this has been an excellent conversation. I want to
thank you both for your time and your commitment. It’s a long
rough road, I think, that you two guys have been on, and by
speaking out so energetically and positively, I think that you will
have done a lot to encourage an interest and enlighten some of
these young activists who we know will be watching this –
because this torch must be picked up. It’s a torch that must grow
more and more brightly.
I’m convinced now, Wade, having read a lot of your site, that
free energy is such a huge issue, and also I should say having
read several of Brian’s books as well. It goes everywhere. It goes
into the environment. It goes into the economy. It goes into
politics. It goes into control agendas. It goes into every aspect of
society that we know about. This is why it’s really at the heart of
everything, and of course this is why the activists do get stomped
on so hard. But you’re still standing! And we acknowledge and
salute you for that and thank you very much indeed for your
inspiration to everyone who will be listening to this.
BO’L: Thank you, Bill.
WF: Thank you, Bill. And thank you for what you and Kerry are
doing. It’s important work. Thanks for being there.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dr. Joseph Farrell - Nazi International
Laughlin, Nevada, February 2009
--- I attempted to stress in my most recent book, NAZI INTERNATIONAL,
that the postwar Nazis were not merely tiny enclaves of war criminals
huddled, panic-stricken, together in tiny enclaves in Latin America and
elsewhere. They were, on the contrary, highly organized, well-funded, had
their own intelligence and security apparatus, and most importantly, were
conducting and continuing the lines of research they had begun during the
war.
Dr. Joseph P. Farrell
The title of this interview, Nazi International, refers to Joseph
Farrell's latest book, in which he details - as do Camelot
witnesses Jim Marrs and Peter Levenda, and many other
researchers (including Jim Keith, who died in unusual
circumstances and to whom we pay tribute here) - how the Nazis
were experimenting with technology extremely advanced for
their time, and how many Nazi scientists, evaluated as being
valuable resources for post-war America, were repatriated to the
US under Project Paperclip.
We first heard of Joseph Farrell from Richard Hoagland - and
soon after from Nick Cook, the author of The Hunt for Zero
Point. Farrell, like Peter Levenda, is essentially an academic: a
document researcher who digs deep into historical detail and has
become fascinated, as many others have, with the hidden history
of the Third Reich. He has continued Igor Witkowski's and Nick
Cook's research into the enigmatic Nazi Bell: an experimental
device, classified at the highest level, that seems to have been
used to investigate time distortion effects or antigravity - very
possibly both - based on the beginnings of theoretical torsion
physics that was being developed in the 1920s and 1930s by a
number of brilliant European scientists, themselves very much
ahead of their time.
In this interview, Bill Ryan takes the lead and talks with Joseph
Farrell in some depth about his work. The interview takes the
viewer on a journey which starts before the Second World War,
and explores just what German scientists may have been doing in
great secret, with the full support of the SS. And, as the title of
the video indicates, the story by no means ends there. This video
may be of considerable interest to students of wartime advanced
technology, and of the hidden history of the Third Reich.
34
Introduction
Bill Ryan (BR): .So our job is to help you get your information
out to the maximum amount of people.
Joseph Farrell (JF): Okay.
BR: And the people who do watch this information are a very
eclectic bunch. We’ve got 16-year-old kids who’ve just woken up
last month saying: What’s going on around here? Tell me. Tell
me. And then we’ve got seasoned researchers like yourself, and
even insiders themselves, who watch our videos to get a feel for
what’s really going on.
JF: Okay.
BR: And so, one of the reasons why we wanted to talk to you
was because you’re a very cogent, lucid and articulate presenter
of some very difficult information. I’m sure other people have
told you that as well, but we recognize that.
JF: Okay.
BR: And we apologize for putting you under the camera here, to
the extent that you don’t have your slide slow. [Farrell laughs].
You don’t have any prompts and you don’t have any notes.
JF: I’ll do shadows. [laughs]
BR: The feeling we had about you is that you have a very good
grasp of your information, and we respect that as well. So here
we go. We’re rolling.
Start of interview
So... I’m Bill Ryan from Project Camelot. I’m here with my
colleague Kerry Cassidy and we’re delighted to also be here with
Joseph Farrell. And off camera just a few moments ago I checked
that it was okay to call you Joe...
JF: Oh, absolutely.
BR: ...‘cause we’re among friends here, and that makes me feel a
little bit more relaxed. You may be wondering, and some of our
viewers may be wondering how come this is Bill here who’s
doing this interview. And just as a little bit of a personal
introduction about myself, and also maybe to some of our newer
viewers, I’m... If we were the real X-Files, I would actually be
Scully. [laughter] Okay? Meaning, I’m the one who’s slightly
more scientific, slightly more skeptical, slightly more cautious...
JF: Right.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: ...and this is why, between us, many people feel, and we feel
ourselves, that we make quite a good team. So I have a math and
physics background.
JF: Okay.
BR: I tend not to leap to wild conclusions, but at the same time
I’m very happy to think out of the box...
JF: Sure.
BR: ...as I strongly suspect you do as well.
JF: Right.
BR: And one of the reasons why we really wanted to talk to
youbesides the very high professional quality of your
presentation on various interviews that we listened to, to prepare
ourselves for this—is that the pieces of the jigsaw that you have
collected through your diligent research seem to us to be essential
understanding for anyone who really wants to know what’s going
on today in geopolitics, in terms of “black science”, maybe even
in terms of global agenda, who’s running the show, how it all
started, where it all started, and when it all started.
JF: Okay.
BR: And for the benefit of some of our viewers who may not
know who you are...
JF: Okay. [laughs]
BR: ...despite that introduction, give us your elevator speech
about: Who is Joe Farrell? And how did you come to do what
you’re doing right now?
JF: Well, Cliff Notes version: My father was an engineer, so I
kind of grew up in a household where science was always kind of
a main thing to be stressed, and I’ve always been, you know,
individually interested in it. For quite a long period when I was a
child, and all through high school later on, I wanted to be a
physicist. And then, my senior year I got senioritis, I’m afraid,
and wimped out of calculus and selected music theory as my
alternative study, but [laughs] that proved to be almost as
difficult, if not more so.
So I was also a musician and I got into music. And then when I
was in college I took philosophy and that diverted me even
further away from my original goal, into philosophy and ancient
texts. I’ve also always been interested in history and ancient
things, and mysteries, and so on and so forth. So I did my Ph.D.
in England and then taught college for a number of years.
BR: In Oxford? Were you in Oxford?
JF: No, no. I wasn’t a professor at all at Oxford. I just did my
Ph.D. there. I actually taught college in Oklahoma. It was mostly
philosophy and history, but I did do an inter-disciplinary seminar
at one period of time. That was a team-taught seminar, and the
way the other professor and I had to kind of divvy up the various
disciplines that we were trying to pull together... Well, she was a
35
biologist so she handled certain things, and I got physics because
that’s always been kind of a hobby even though I abandoned the
professional pursuit of it, so...
We also discovered we had a common interest, as it were, in the
esoteric and alternative things, and I presented some of my
Pyramid ideas to her and she says: Oh, you’ve got to do that for
the class. So I did it for the class and they kind of really liked it,
much to my surprise.
After I quit college teaching I decided: Well, you know I might as
well bite the bullet and write some of my crazy ideas down. So
that’s kind of [laughs] how I got started in all of this. That’s how
it came about.
BR: So you’re quite a polymath.
JF: Ah... I have a lot of interests. Yeah. I wouldn’t say polymath,
but, yeah, I’ve got a broad spectrum of interests. [laughs]
BR: You’ve already answered one of my questions, which is
how come it appears evidently that you have such a grasp of the
physics which your research has led you to be entangled with, if I
can use that word.
JF: Oh yeah. Well, when I was growing up I was the
quintessential nerd. I mean, fun for me when I was a boy was
playing with my daddy’s slide rule, you know? [laughs] So that
kind of gives you the idea of what kind of person... I’ve always
been a reader and to this day I still like to try and find physics
papers online and pull ’em up and read ’em, and see what’s going
on. So that’s kind of what I am.
BR: Well good for you because it sounds like, from what we can
gather, having talked to mutual colleagues such as Richard
Hoagland...
JF: Right.
BR: ...and Jim Marrs, who we interviewed just this morning, is
that you’re providing a real service in the information chain, as it
were, in terms of providing researchers—who are trying their
best to assemble a big picture—with some specific drilled-down
components that you seem eminently qualified to have stumbled
across. Or perhaps that sounds too clumsy. Actually, maybe
you’ve been going after them very deliberately ever since you
realized that there was something to go after.
JF: Maybe.
BR: Do you think that that is correct?
JF: Maybe somewhere between the two. One of the things that
always struck me... My academic background is actually in
theology, and it always struck me that many of the methods that
theologians use are very similar, in some respects, to methods
that physicists use. And that may sound wildly contradictory to
what most people would think.
But in looking at ancient texts, particularly philosophical texts, it
always struck me that I was looking at a kind of a topological
metaphor rather than specifically a metaphysical text. And the
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
further I went back, the more apparent that metaphor became, to
the point that it even became possible to notate certain concepts
in text with the actual notation conventions of topology.
So I thought, well, you know: That’s kind of wild! [laughs] So I
didn’t share it. Doing the Ph.D., I didn’t share that idea with
anybody, you know. But after I quit college teaching I began to
look at texts that way, and to see... And I had done it privately.
I’m not saying that, you know, all of a sudden I decided to do
this. I’d been doing it privately for a number of years and keeping
little notebooks of it. But yeah. It was kind of half-accident, and
kind of an on-going interest. So somewhere between the two.
BR: But there’s something that must have got you started
specifically on the treasure-trail that led you to putting together a
lot of the sub-jigsaw that was: What were the Nazis really doing
before and during World War Two...
JF: Right.
BR: ...that nobody else seems to have really realized? What was
it that led you in that direction? What were the first things you
found?
JF: Well, the thing that always struck me that I don’t think has...
And I don’t even include myself in this category. The thing that
has always struck me about what kind of research the Nazis were
doing is, on the one hand you have a definite esoteric, occult
influence and interest that midwifes the Nazi Party into existence.
You have a definite esoteric and occult influence at work after
the Nazis take power.
And, you know, one of the things I like to point out is that the
Nazi “State” with the SS and Heinrich Himmler, when he creates
the Ahnenerbe Dienst, [ed. note: Ahnenerbe Service]the so-called
Ancestral Research Bureau...
If you go to the Nuremberg Tribunals and pull up the brief—you
have to kind of dig for it but you can eventually find it—it’s a
short little statement, declaration, that establishes this thing. But
one of the things that he puts in as one of the purposes for this
department is that it is to investigate all of these areas for their
potential military application. Okay?
So we have that influence at work. And then, on the other hand,
as you know, being mathematics and physics background, you
have during that period of—oh, say 1920 up to about 1931, ’32—
you have this spate of publications in Germany of various
Unified Field Theories: Kaluza, Einstein, Eddington, and so on
and so forth. So you have that kind of scientific ferment at work.
And then of course you add Gabriel Kron into the mix, a
Hungarian fellow, electrical engineer who says: Hey! You know,
he wins a prize at the University of Liège in Belgium for a paper
in which he says: Well, we electrical engineers notice all of these
anomalies in large rotating electrical systems, and we can
explain those anomalies by appealing to these higher-
dimensional physics Unified Field Theories.
So in other words, if you stop and think of the implications of
what he said, the technology of electrical circuitry, circa 1935, is
producing anomalies only explainable by these higher-
dimensional mathematical / physics theories. He’s telling you, in
36
other words: These theories are engineer-able. They may be
incomplete in the theoretical sense, but they’re nonetheless
engineer-able theories. And that’s an important statement.
BR: Which is highly significant because he’s marrying two
totally different worlds.
JF: Oh yes. Absolutely. Yes.
BR: Engineering in the practical; and the abstruse in the
mathematical.
JF: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, one of the things that
struck me... I’ve just acquired some of Kron’s papers. I went out
and bought one of his books, a little old Dover book publication.
But what he does is, he takes the tensor calculus and uses it as a
way of analyzing electrical machines.
BR: Now this is Einstein’s tensor calculus from his 1928 Unified
Field paper?
JF: Yeah. This is... Right. And one of the things specifically that
you’ll notice in Kron—although he doesn’t come right out and
tell you: I’m now going to show you how torsion works—is he
appeals to that very concept.
So you’ve got these two very different things going on as kind of
an intellectual ferment in Germany at the time. You’ve got the
esoteric and occult interest, and you have this very abstruse
theoretical and engineering interest.
Now, I’ve always suspected that there is some sort of connection
between the two. And this is kind of what got me interested in the
whole “Bell” story, because the department of the German
government that is conducting all of this very exotic research is
precisely the SS.
BR: What year are we talking about now?
JF: That’s another good question. the Bell project itself, I think
you can make a kind of a case, actually has its conceptual kind of
proof-of-concept stage beginnings before the Nazis take power,
and may have been as early as circa 1924 and ’25.
BR: That early!?
JF: That early. The reason that I say that is in one of my books I
reproduce this little, oh, kind of a two-column filler article that
ran in the Frankfurter Allgameine Zeitung, I think it was, but it
was written by none other than Dr. Walther Gerlach.
Now Walther Gerlach, you know, he’s one of the most famous
physicists at that time of history. He’s a Nobel Prize winner, you
know... the famous Stern-Gerlach experiment.
I thought: Well whoa! Because what he’s talking about in this
article is the possibility of the transmutation of elements,
specifically in regard to mercury-to-gold, and he’s calling it a
“new alchemy.” And that just really brought me up short.
Because you know, this is, number one, before the discovery of
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nuclear fission by Otto Hahn. Okay? So he’s got some very
different concept in his head.
BR: He’s a smart guy, he‘s not a...
JF: [laughs] He’s a very smart guy! Yeah. This is not a second-
stringer, you know. And when he uses this word alchemy, it’s
crystal clear. I even reproduced the original German article and
then translated it, so you know that I’m not making this stuff up,
folks.
BR: It’s the same word in German, isn’t it?
JF: Oh yeah. Alchemy. You can see it right there in an article. So
he writes this article and then, it’s very clear, he makes a kind of
a final little statement, that, you know: This should be
investigated further and to do so it’s going to—hint, hint—
require a lot of money. [laughs] So this is kind of the typical
scientist’s appeal to the government. All right?
BR: Okay.
JF: Well, the reason I think that the project may have begun at
this time is because it is precisely Dr. Walther Gerlach who is the
project head of the Bellfor the Nazis.
BR: Okay. Now, Joe, I wonder if I could stop you here, because
what we’ve got here is we’ve got the first ten minutes of what’s
sounding like a really interesting movie where [Farrell laughs] no
one’s quite sure what’s going on here...
JF: Yeah.
BR: ...but they’re interested.
JF: Okay.
BR: Now, for our viewers, Okay? We’ve talked about Einstein;
tensor calculus—something that sounds very abstrusely
mathematical that...
JF: It is! [laughs]
BR: ...no one will understand; the Nazis; and something called
the Bell. So what’s the plot-line here? Why should anyone...
JF: Pay attention to this?
BR: ...care about this extraordinary story?
JF: All right. Very simple. It’s my belief... Just to give you kind
of a very short Cliff Notes answer, it’s my belief, number one,
that the Nazi atom bomb project was successful. Now, what I’m
gonna do is simply ask your viewers to accept that as kind of a
“given” for the sake of argument so that I can kind of set the
context. Okay?
If you look at the project classification of the Bell, the Nazis
classified it as kriegsentscheidend—[ed. note: war decisive]. In
other words, within the classification system of the Third Reich,
37
the Bell was classified absolutely uniquely and at the very
pinnacle of the system, and it is the ONLY project in Nazi
Germany to be given that specific classification. In other words,
higher than the atom bomb. Okay?
So in other words, to the Nazis the atom bomb is, you know,
already kind of “old stuff.” [laughs] Okay? So that gives an
indicator of what the significance is. But if you look at the
physics that they’re trying to investigate, I believe they’re
investigating it for three things—for the purposes of achieving
three things.
Number one, they want to free Germany from energy dependence
on foreign powers and foreign oil. So, in other words, they’re
investigating the so-called “zero point” energy. Okay?
Number two, the same sort of physics they have seen is kind of a
gateway or window into advanced field propulsion, or antigravity
if you want to call it that.
And the third thing of course, Nazis being Nazis, is that they
want to engineer this physics for a weapon. And of course we’re
dealing now with the physics that, again, can engineer the fabric
of space-time, locally.
BR: Okay. Now, just once again to summarize this before we go
into even more detail.
JF: Sure.
BR: What you’re referring to here is, you’ve picked up the
research line that was started by...
JF: Igor Witkowski.
BR: ...Nick Cook and Igor Witkowski. This thing that seems to
have been called... well, for lack of a better word The Nazi Bell.
We don’t know what they called it, do we?
JF: Well, actually they did call it Die Glocke.
BR: Die Glocke.
JF: And they had another nickname for it: Der Bienenstock—the
beehive...
BR: The beehive.
JF: ...because of the sound it made. But one of the actual project
code names was Projekt Cronos, or Project Time. Now, many
people leap to the conclusion that well, they’re trying to build a
time machine. Well, no. That’s... Time is involved because,
again, you’re trying to use torsion to tap into the ability to
manipulate the fabric of space-time.
BR: What’s torsion?
JF: All right. Torsion. The way I like to illustrate it very simply
is: If you take a soda can and empty the soda out of it and then
wring it like a dishrag, you’ve got that counter-rotating motion,
and it’s going to spiral and fold and pleat that can, and then draw
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the ends of the can closer together. So that kind of is my
simplistic illustration of what torsion does. And the can itself
would represent space-time, okay?
Now, what they’re doing... I think ultimately, for the Nazis, the
purpose of this is they want to weaponize it. And of course—and
I say this over and over again in my interviews—if you’re
dealing with a technology that has the potential to engineer
space-time, that means that if you weaponize that, potentially you
have a weapon that would make a hydrogen bomb look like a
firecracker.
It’s truly planet-busting stuff if you’ve got the proper engineering
behind it and, you know, develop appropriate power systems and
so on. Which again... one and the same thing will lead to zero-
point energy, so there’s your power, [laughs] you know?
BR: And there’re some very smart scientists in that time.
JF: Oh yes! Absolutely.
BR: One might actually say “the world’s finest”, would you say?
JF: I would say so. And again, you know, this is why I kind of
prefaced my remarks by mentioning the atom bomb, because the
kind of the post-war Allied legend, as I like to call it, is of course
the Germans were a bunch of nuclear bunglers, you know. And
they didn’t have enough manpower. And they didn’t have enough
money, you know, and all of this happy nonsense that you hear in
the textbooks.
Well, to me this story really doesn’t make much sense. And
you’re right. They’ve got Heisenberg. They’ve got Hartek. I
mean, these people are not second-stringers at all. So yeah, what
the Germans are doing... And I want to emphasize here the
importance of why Nazism would be the ideological cauldron for
this, because Nazism of course had banned “Jewish physics”. In
other words: Relativity. And they even had ideological
difficulties with aspects of quantum mechanics because it was too
statistical. It was too probabilistic. It wasn’t deterministic enough
for some of the Nazi ideologues.
But what is implied by this in the standard history is that within
Nazi Germany you have an absolute stamping out of the
scientific method and a dead-ending of physics. But I think if you
look now, a hundred years after Relativity, we see precisely that
physics has dead-ended. We have this kind of dogma in place
now.
38
What I think Nazism really did is it freed those people in a
certain way to think outside the box, and all of that outside-the-
box thinking took place inside the confines of the SS. And the
signal event that kicks all this loose now in modern times—the
reason we’re finding out about it—is precisely German
Reunification. Why?
BR: Right.
JF: Because when the Eastern Zone is basically annexed in a
shotgun wedding by West Germany... and that’s exactly how I
would describe it. When that happens, all of those old SS
installations in the Eastern Zone—some of which the Soviets
didn’t even get into, you know. The SS blew ’em up and the
Soviets never bothered to go into them. The Germans went back
in there and looked at all this stuff, and it wasn’t showing up on
any radar screen connected with rockets or jet aircraft or poison
gas, you know, any of the other stuff that they were doing. And
so they began to wonder: Well, what’s going on here?
And then of course Igor finds that very strange “henge”-like
structure there in Ludwikowice, I think in Poland, which used to
be Ludwigsdorf, and he’s wondering: What is this? [laughs] You
know? Why is this here?
And of course this kicks loose the spate of declassification. This
kicks loose a bunch of people coming forward from the old
Eastern Zone, now able to talk about what they saw, what they
observed. So this has kicked loose a fantastic amount of
information.
BR: It’s very interesting what you are saying about the... Let me
rephrase what you’re saying: The crucible of the state’s support
and the state’s agenda was a perfect support system for a scientist
who wanted the funding and the motivation...
JF: And to think outside the box.
BR: ...and all the resources to go and play with his toys and to do
what all scientists really want to do, which is to invent something
wild...
JF: [laughs] Yes! Exactly!
BR: ...that works.
JF: That’s exactly right.
BR: And what some of our listeners will already be thinking is,
like... they’ll be thinking: Wait a minute! This is what’s
happening in Los Alamos and Hughes and Sandia and Bell Labs
right now.
JF: Uh huh! Yes. That’s right. Yes!
BR: At a different time and in a different Reich—[Farrell
laughs]—which is what Jim Marrs would say.
JF: Yeah. I wouldn’t have much of an argument with him either!
[laughs]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: But what I also think you’re saying, at the risk of putting
words into your mouth, is that if we want to understand that stuff
that I just mentioned, then we need to go back to exactly this
paper trail that you’ve been following, because what we’re seeing
nowadays is the progeny of that. Is that correct?
JF: Yeah. Nazi Germany is, you know, it’s really a weird state
when you examine the scientific implications of it because...
Let me go back to that SS department that Himmler sets up.
Okay, you’re gonna go out there and you’re gonna research the
Aryan heritage—if we look at the Nazi state and we go back to
what Himmler sets up with this department—and he says: All
right. Go out and investigate all of the aspects of the ancient
Aryan heritage. But the mission brief is broad enough that he
gives them.
Basically you have a department of the Nazi state created
specifically for the purpose to investigate the esoteric, the occult,
the hermetic, whatever you want to call all of this ancient lore,
okay? For the specific purpose of military application.
BR: This again sounds eerily reminiscent of what we hear
coming out of certain places in America right now.
JF: Yeah! Right. But here, what I’m emphasizing here, and what
I want to kind of tie into what you said, is that this is the first
time in modern history that a major world power has invested
serious financial and personnel resources to do this. And it’s
very, very clear, you know, in Nazi Germany’s case. So we have
this cauldron, this crucible that, you know...
I take kind of almost diametrically the opposite tack that a
standard academic historian would give you of this Aryan
physics. We know what the failures are. I mean, they’re palpable.
They’re blatant. But the reason we don’t know about the
successes, and the reason that we’re only hearing about them
now, is not only German Reunification but precisely because that
crucible was in the SS. It was all classified. It was also deeply
black.
But yeah, by freeing them from so-called “Jewish physics”, what
they’re really saying is: We want you to think outside the box. We
want you to come up with a completely different paradigm of
physics. And if it’s engineer-able, [claps hands] go do it.
BR: Okay. Now, interestingly enough, just last week we spoke
with Peter Levenda. Do you know him and his work?
JF: Oh yes. Yeah. I know Peter.
BR: We were delighted to talk with him and, of course, he’s
somebody who...
JF: Oh yes.
BR: ...is a document researcher like yourself. And he described
to us how he went to the very famous archivist, Dr. Wolfe...
JF: Okay. Yes.
39
BR: ...who showed him the archives of the SS Ahnenerbe.
JF: Oh boy! [laughs]
BR: And his words were that his jaw dropped. He never knew
such a thing existed. It’s really interesting to us that you’ve been
down that same rabbit-hole. And what I’d love to ask you
about—if this doesn’t deviate from your thought-line here—is:
What is the connection between this hard, but brilliant and out-
of-the-box physics, with the occult?
JF: I think... Again, if you go back to the remarks I began with, I
think if you go far enough back and look at certain types of texts,
for example, the Hermetica, okay? And read them without the
standard academic approach with metaphysics eyeglasses on, and
read them rather as a topologist--as a mathematician—would read
these texts, or as even a materials engineer, you know, might read
these texts, what pops out of these things is a profound metaphor
of a physical medium that creates information, and that’s a very
modern idea. In fact, it’s so modern, you know, it starts popping
up in the Soviet Union in the 1970s and begins to kind of spread
from there. All of this stuff is popping out of the Soviet Union.
So in other words, way back when—if we go back to the
Hermetica—here we’re dealing with a text approximately, oh
give or take, you know, 2,000 years old, so in others words... But
it’s an Egyptian text even though it’s written in Greek. Its
provenance is clearly Egyptian, okay? So this is very old and yet
it contains this profoundly sophisticated physics metaphor.
That’s what really popped out at me, you know, when I was
reading these texts. It wasn’t that I was supposed to be looking
and seeing Platonic Universals, you know, the chair-of-all-chairs
and the horse-of-all-horses. No. None of that was what was
popping out at me. What Plato’s talking about is topology. He’s
talking about common surfaces with common forms, okay? So
I’m looking at this, and then I’m looking at the Nazis, and they’re
coming up with these theories essentially in the ’20s and ’30s that
are looking at the physical medium as an engineer-able reality. In
other words, in a certain sense, as an information-creating
medium. So... And again, the key to creating stable information is
rotation, okay? Torsion, and so on and so forth.
So I’m thinking: Well, this appears to be precisely what we see
going on with this Bell project. They are somehow pursuing this
idea of physics. And one of the things that leapt out at me that
kind of made this connection very clear is...
In my book, The Philosopher’s Stone, I refer to a fellow by the
name of “Himmler’s Rasputin”—if you can imagine [laughs]
Heinrich Himmler having a personal Rasputin! Well this guy’s
name is Karl Maria Wiligut. Okay? He has a number of aliases
that he wrote esoteric treatises under. But his basic conception is
that the whole universe arises out of a tension between two
counter-rotating spirals which create the “World Egg”. Okay?
And when I saw that I thought: Oh boy! Because of course in the
Bell, you know—which I rationalize as basically a kind of hyper-
dimensional torsion physics device—you’ve got these two
counter-rotating drums into which they’re putting this high-
density liquid, which I think may have even incorporated an
isomer as one of its components. And of course an isomer is one
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
of these high-spin isotopes, that if you de-excite it, it will release
massive amounts of energy.
Well, you’ve got these two counter-rotating drums, and I’m
thinking: Well, here’s the physics that they’re doing, and we’ve
got these two counter-rotating things. And over here, Himmler’s
Rasputin is saying: Well, this is all coming out of two counter-
rotating systems. You know? So I think, clearly, you had an
ideological culture in the SS that, rather than inhibiting scientific
progress, really kind of forced them to pursue all of this higher-
dimensional physics.
BR: It actually gave them an inspirational boost.
JF: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, the kind of... the final
nail in the coffin, as far as I’m concerned is, if you look at the
swastika itself, you know, and view that as not so much the
corporate logo of the Nazi Party but as an ideogram of this whole
physics idea...
BR: It looks like a vector diagram.
JF: Yeah. It looks like a vector diagram. Exactly! You know,
you’ve got a subsystem of rotation, you’ve got a subsystem of
stress, and you throw ‘em together and twist that thing, and
there’s your parallel transports in the tensor calculus... and voila,
you know, [laughs] you’re on your way.
Kerry Cassidy (KC): In a sense, that symbol came out of India.
JF: Oh sure. Yeah.
KC: They actually went back to the original meaning of the
symbol, and picked up on it because it was supposed to have
been...
JF: Yes. Bingo. Bingo! Exactly! And, you know, if you kind of
can imagine Walther Gerlach being challenged, you know. Let’s
assume the project’s underway when the Nazis take power.
Gerlach got his wish. He got funding from the Weimar
government, and he’s doing his spin experiments, okay? He was
fascinated with spin and magnetic resonance and gravitation, you
know. He corresponded with the Austrian physicist, Thirring.
You know, the Lense-Thirring Effect. Satellite drag and all this,
you know. This was his bag.
So imagine the Nazis coming in and saying: Well, Professor
Doktor Gerlach, we’re going to shut your project down. It looks
too suspicious to us. It’s dealing in areas we don’t want to deal
with. It’s not part of our ideology. Well, all Gerlach has to do is
say: Herr Himmler, it’s right there on your armband. He’s
already sold them, in a certain sense! [Bill laughs]
And you’re right. Because the other thing about the Bell that I
should mention in this context with India is that this Xerum 525
that they’re putting inside this device and spinning up... Well,
number one, it’s a liquid. Number two, it’s of heavy density.
Number three, it’s of a kind of a maroonish-violet color, okay?
Very heavy.
So I’m thinking: A liquid metal. Mercury. So probably mercury is
one thing. And there’s your connection to India. Because of
40
course as you know, in the vimana texts you have references to
mercury vortexes. And, just to kind of make a final nail in the
coffin, mercury’s kind of an ideal candidate if you’re going to use
plasmas in this thing.
And again, you know, you have astrophysicists in Germany—
Houtermans—looking at the sun thinking: Okay, we’ve got
nuclear fusion up there. And they’ve already noticed the sun
rotates but the plasma is rotating at different velocities, so you’ve
got this “differential rotation” they call it, but that’s just a fancy
word for, you know, it’s rotating at different velocities. And
they’re putting all this together in this device.
KC: What about the vimanas? You know, what was in essence
flying saucers way back when? Do you think that they might
have gotten the idea there?
JF: From those ancient texts? Let me put it this way: I don’t
think it’s even necessary to say that that might have been a
motivation. However, within the culture of the SS that is
conducting this research, you’re going to have one department,
the Ahnenerbe, reading these texts and taking them to the
scientists to analyze. And the scientists are going to look at these
things and say: Oh, isn’t that interesting?
Because over here Professor Doctor Gerlach has been studying
this. He won a Nobel Prize for examining aspects of this type of
physics, and he’s been investigating and researching ever since.
And they’re putting these two things together. I think that’s
what’s happening in Nazi Germany. They’re doing the first
attempt, in a certain sense, to go back at these ancient texts and
say they contain a scientific metaphor, and therefore a
technology. And we have these papers now that we can see this.
Let’s try and reconstruct it.
This is a vital thing because that means they have also seen—and
this is, again, a part of Nazi ideological belief—that there was a
very sophisticated ancient civilization. So in another sense then,
yeah, they’re trying to reconstruct this stuff. In that sense they’re
kind of a resurrection of Atlantis.
BR: Hmm.
KC: Then are they looking at the Egyptian pyramids and the
Sumerian seals…
JF: They’re looking at everything. [laughs]
KC: …and they’re getting all kinds of clues.
JF: Oh yeah! Absolutely they are, you know…
BR: Because at exactly the same time as this they were mounting
expeditions all over the world to try and get hold of…
JF: Oh yes.
BR: …anything they could get a hold of.
JF: Oh yes.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: That would give them clues to all of this, right?
JF: Well, in this regard, this idea of an ancient civilization in
trying to get clues into it; you’re familiar with the ‘38-39 Schafer
expedition to Tibet.
BR: Yes.
JF: Okay. Well, Himmler was a personal sponsor of this. What I
find interesting is that, in spite of the heavy influence of the
British Raj in Tibet, the Nazis not only were able to gain entry
into the Potala from the regions. They came out of Tibet with an
entire copy—as Peter Levenda’s research establishes—an entire
copy of the Kangschur; this ancient Tibetan epic which is
supposed to be about this very sophisticated ancient civilization.
And they make it back to Germany with this.
BR: And they knew its importance.
JF: Oh yes absolutely they did, absolutely they did.
KC: So some of their technology could have come from Tibet as
well?
JF: I think some of their technology has to... Some of their
thinking has to come from looking at these texts and looking at
all of these very abstruse ideas in physics and putting them
together because they fit so snuggly at places at times that it
really is astonishing. You know, I didn’t dare write about any of
this when I was a professor. [laughs] That’s why I wait until after
I get out of there. Now I’ll write it down.
BR: The least one can say about it is that this is all the work of
intuitive genius.
JF: Yes, I…
BR: That’s the least one can say.
JF: That’s the least that one can say. And again, the fact that we
have an organized department of the government—and a secret
one at that—doing this, that means it’s organized.
BR: Yup!
JF: And that, to me, implies that—as you’re implying—that to
me indicates that there is some deliberation being taken in
thinking and rationalizing all of this out.
BR: Okay. Now let me just dispose of one question here that our
viewers will want me to ask.
JF: Sure. [laughs]
BR: Actually, and secretly, I want to ask it myself too. This is
the claimed inference of the Vril Society; those young girls who
were channeling, remote viewing, accessing clairvoyant
information—whatever you want to call it.
JF: Okay.
41
BR: That’s been much vaunted…
JF: Yes.
BR: …by theorists who claim that they were accessing
information that may have come from other realms or other
planets or whatever.
JF: Right.
BR: What’s your take on that?
JF: I don’t base my analysis of the Bell Project, or anything like
that, on channeled information or on Neo-Nazi sources. My
problem with this story is precisely those two things. That it
comes, first of all, from a source that is anecdotal and, secondly,
that the ultimate source that’s putting it out has some very shady
kind of Neo-Nazi ties, okay?
And there’s no other corroboration of it other than the fact that
we know that something called the Vril Society did exist, and we
know it because it was the German rocket scientist Willy Ley that
first mentioned it when he came over to this country to escape the
Nazis.
BR: Mm-hm.
JF: Okay. So we know that that society existed. We don’t know
much about it. They did publish a small thin little brochure in
Berlin prior to the war. I haven’t been able to get a hold of it. I
don’t know what it’s contents are. So, as far as I’m concerned,
this is a story that, number one, has kind of a suspect origin and,
number two, I haven’t been able to find anything other than this
story to corroborate that the Nazis were doing this.
I do know that the Ahnenerbe is doing research that we would
now consider paranormal or psychic or remote viewing or what
have you. Certainly they were. So you’ve got a general context in
which something like that might have taken place, but they are
alleging that this took place toward the end—in fact in some
cases during World War One and toward the end of World War
One—long before the Nazis are even on the scene.
BR: I thought it was in the twenties.
JF: No. I think one of these was 1916 and another one was in
19—and again, I may be mistaken—1919 I think, close to
Berchtesgarten, which is another unusual little coincidence
[laughs] in this story, but...
KC: But did you investigate the remote viewing, like the origins
of remote viewing, in the Nazi…
JF: No, no I haven’t. That’s an aspect of the story I think again
that is going to come out eventually. The problem now is
getting... There are massive amounts of Ahnenerbe documents in
the US national archives, but many of them are still unavailable,
so the problem is being able to tell a complete story. You see,
that’s the whole problem here. It’s not that I don’t think that there
is one but right now all we have with the Vril Society is a kind of
a general kind of corroboration of a context.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: Yes. And presumably you’re also sort of invoking Occam’s
Razor by saying it’s not necessary to…
JF: To go there.
BR: I understand that.
JF: Exactly. It’s not necessary because you have another occult
influence at work already within the SS that has a specifically
detailed conceptual relationship to the physics being investigated
with the Bell and that’s this guy Wiligut.
BR: Yeah.
JF: Right. So you really don’t even need to go there. It would be
kind of nice icing on the cake, you know, if they figured out:
Well, consciousness plays a role in this too and we’re going to
investigate that. Well if they’re rationalizing things to that extent,
yeah, then we’re in even deeper trouble. [laughs]
BR: Okay. Now after all those fascinating set-ups…
JF: Okay. [laughs]
BR: …our viewers here, who are thinking this sounds like a
detective story; this sounds like Columbo...
JF: Or a bad Oliver B movie. [laughs]
BR: What was the Bell? What were they trying to do? And what
is known what is not known what is theorized and why is this
important?
JF: Okay, let me give you the basic data points and then I’ll give
you how I kind of rationalize them. My rationalization of it is a
bit different that Igor Witkowski and Nick Cook although I kind
of build on some aspects of their analysis.
First of all it’s a device, it’s bell shaped, it stands about twelve to
fifteen feet high, nine to twelve feet wide. It’s either cased in a
kind of a ceramic metal or just plain old ceramic. It’s got heavy
duty electrical port cable—electrical cabling ports—around the
device.
Inside the device there are two counter rotating drums—and I
want to be clear here. The data that we have does not specify the
internal configuration of those drums within the Bell. These two
counter rotating drums had a 'serum'—this Xerum 525 I
mentioned earlier—the heavy maroonish-red, probably mercury,
compound.
It is cryogenically cooled either by liquid oxygen or liquid
nitrogen and it is close to an electrical power plant and sounds
like a beehive Okay? The electrical power plant is kind of to put
an hyperbole on it near yards away from the installations that the
Bell is being tested in all right?
BR: The kind of hum you get from a high voltage generator.
JF: Yes. Okay. Now let’s put all these things... Those are the
data points, and the…
42
BR: And this is known how?
JF: This is known by an SS general by the name of Jakob
Sporrenberg who was part of this project because he was the
general that was tasked, at the end of the war, to go in and murder
sixty of the scientists involved with the project.
BR: Hm.
JF: In other words the Nazis want to keep this thing absolutely
quiet.
BR: I didn’t know that.
JF: Oh yeah, that’s how all this comes out. He’s tried for that
crime by a Polish War Crimes Tribunal because, of course,
Poland slid westward and took over parts of Pomeranian Silesia
that were formerly German provinces. And the Bell was tested in
that part of Germany that then became Poland after the war.
So Poland assumed jurisdiction over this man for that crime and
we know it by the affidavit that he gave at that war crimes trial,
okay? But it’s important again to realize, it’s after the collapse of
the iron curtain, it’s after the collapse of the east German state
and basically the shotgun wedding that was had in 1989, that all
of this comes out.
Now, Sporrenberg also describes the effect of the device on
plants. Plants exposed to the field of this thing when it was
operating would decay to a kind of a brownish grey goo within a
matter of either hours or weeks, this would vary.
BR: They’d come apart.
JF: Yes. They’d just literally fall apart, just blugh, and they
would do so without putrefaction. The first time it was tested
apparently the Germans had not done something correctly and
seven of the original scientists of the project were killed when it
was tested the first time. Later on, apparently, they learned how
to kind of control some of these deadly effects a little bit more
reasonably.
But those are the data points. And one little final bit of
information—a final bit of data point... When it was tested
underground it had to be tested in a room lined with ceramic
bricks over which were placed rubber mats. After each test
concentration camp victims would come in, remove the rubber
mats, burn the mats and then scrub down the ceramic bricks with
brine—okay? That had to be done for some reason after each test.
BR: Radioactivity?
JF: Yes I think so, I think so. Again... and I’m mentioning that
because it’s a crucial data point. Then, when it was tested outside,
it was tested apparently inside this henge-like structure that is
near all of these strange installations with this electrical power
plant right there.
This henge stood in a kind of a basin—a pool—it looks like, that
would have contained some sort of liquid. Around the perimeter
of this pool there are... And you can see this on the History
Channel documentary with Nick Cook. Igor takes Nick down into
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
this structure and you can see these entry ports for all of this
heavy duty electrical cabling, okay?
Apparently, when tested at night, these concentration camp
inmates described this barrel-like thing that would glow a pale
blue glow and it would rise above the tree line and kind of sit
there and then it would fall back down; lower back down.
So those are our data points. I don’t think that the dimensions of
the device, at this point in my research, are functionally
significant so let’s turn to the cryogenic cooling, okay? We’re
dealing already we know with a device that is using these two
counter rotating cylinders, and I suspect that their centrifuge
isotope technology had something to do with this, because
they’re using ultra high mechanical rotation.
In other words, this is a precision machine, and it’s being
cryogenically cooled. And the first thing that I think of is super-
conductivity, you know. Again, high spin system, little
resistance. It’s a kind of a self contained little bubble of its own...
BR: Was superconductivity understood in the physics of that
time?
JF: Oh yeah. Sure. Then the next thing is we have this
mysterious substance which they’re putting into these cylinders
and spinning at high speed. I think that the presence of this power
plant and the sound of the Bell, as a beehive, indicates that this
whole thing was electrically pulsed with extremely high voltage
direct current electricity.
And that the drums were set up—and Igor agrees with me here;
this is his analysis that I’m borrowing from—that you have a
cathode and an anode and this will arc to the centre. And as this
stuff is spinning and cohering along the same plane of rotation
and being pulsed, electrically pulsed, it’s going to drive it inward,
create little plasmoids, and you’re going to get even more spin
out of this thing.
So, in other words, the way I’m rationalizing the device,
ultimately, is they are attempting to maximize by every possible
means this extreme torsion shear effect. This is exactly what they
are going after. They are trying to figure out if they can
manipulate and engineer the fabric of space-time.
BR: With what end?
43
JF: To what end, again, I think there’s these three purposes in
mind: the Bell is part of a... The departmental oversight, let’s say,
of the Bell is three things.
First, you have some attachment to the Forschung Inviclum
Inpatento, which is a super secret SS entity that is pulling every
patent application within the Third Reich, and later occupied
Europe, that has national security implications.
Number two, it’s under an entity called SS Entwicklungstelle vier
which means Development Area Four. The mission brief of that
department is to make Germany energy independent and it’s that
department that you have investigating things like controlled
fusion, zero point energy, and so on and so forth. So it’s attached
to that department.
Then the final department that it’s attached to is General Hans
Kammler and his think tank down in the Pils in Czechoslovakia
in the Scotia Munitions Works. And the mission brief of that
department of the SS is to brainstorm its way from first
generation to second and third and fourth generations—and
here’s the key—to work out the necessary steps in the technology
tree, to get from one to the other, and then to do it. Okay?
BR: Mm-hm.
JF: So the Bell is connected with all these departments and what
this suggests to me, given the physics involved here, is that
they’re trying to create a prototype technology. And I want to
emphasize this: This thing is not a UFO, it is not itself a weapon
and it is not itself a zero point energy device.
It’s a prototype technology, or a gateway technology, that they
are using in developing to investigate each of those three areas.
That I think is what you have with this project. But I think the
results were significant enough to them, by 1944, that they give it
this extreme classification—kriegsentscheidend—war decisive.
So they’re already seeing the military potential of this thing. This
is a field propulsion potential here of just extraordinary
capability. And this is a weapon potential here of just
extraordinary capability, but it’s a kind of a unified technology.
BR: Now...
KC: It also sounds like it’s a time machine. I mean, it sounds like
it’s creating what Jodie Foster entered, in a sense, in Contact.
JF: Right. I use the term “time dilation” here, and I don’t want
relativistic associations, but I don’t want people to think that this
is a device that can be used as a practical device for time travel—
going backward or forward into the future. But the field effects
here on plants, I think, are key.
And another thing I should mention is: I think one of the
purposes of this 'Xerum' and the use of probably some isotope of
mercury and nuclear isomers was precisely the fact that, if they
were able to achieve a severe time dilation effect, the way you’re
going to try and measure it is precisely by changes in radioactive
decay, okay?
BR: [inaudible]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JF: Yes. So I think this is yet another reason they’re spinning this
stuff up and pulsing it. It’s kind of at one and the same time the
fuel of the device and the measurement of what they’re getting
out of it.
KC: But is it possible, two things…
JF: Mm hm.
KC: …one, that if in spinning which it’s creating a portal, in
essence, it’s creating a torsion field around…
JF: Yes. It’s creating this “twisted can” effect.
KC: But you’re saying it affected plants on the outside of it.
JF: Yes.
KC: Is there any chance that on the inside you wouldn’t have the
same effect?
JF: Good question. To my knowledge—and I think Igor
Witkowski would probably back me up here. To my knowledge
there is no evidence that this device was constructed in such a
way that you could put people into it, or plants or animals or what
have you into this device. Now, that doesn’t mean that...
Let’s put ourselves in the Nazi shoes for a moment and kind of
speculate. If by, say 1942/43 when it is very clear from the
documents that Igor has gathered, they have been successful
enough with this project even to split it into the physics
component and the medical component, okay? Which indicates—
Igor thinks (and I think that he’s quite right here)—that the Nazis
have decided: Okay. We’re far enough along we need to learn
how to limit the effects of this stuff on living beings.
If this is the case, then there’s nothing to prevent the Nazis from
building or modifying that machine, building another one, so that
they can do precisely that. And that would be a logical step for
them to take. But, as of yet, we don’t have any hard evidence that
they did this. That’s all I’m saying. So, yes. It has a field around
it where the effects are quite deadly.
BR: Now, as a leap…
JF: Sure.
BR: …and one that some of our viewers may already have been
making.
JF: Uh-huh.
BR: If, to mirror what you said at the start of our conversation
when you said: Well, let’s assume that the Germans have been
successful in establishing some degree of nuclear weapon
technology.
JF: Right.
44
BR: Let’s suppose that the Americans had done something in the
Montauk project.
JF: Okay.
BR: As it’s popularly been...
JF: Portrayed.
BR: ...portrayed as some kind of a Star Gate device that involves
huge amounts of electrical power, a lot of trial and error
experimentation...
JF: Uh-huh.
BR: ...and even the idea, you know—heaven forbid—that
children picked up off the streets were used as a means of trying
to push them into this thing to see if they would survive the
journey.
JF: Right.
BR: Is this a ridiculous leap in your mind or is this something
that you’re willing to entertain, theoretically, that there’s the
connection here. As this technology….
JF: Between the Bell and Montauk?
BR: Well, yes. I mean... Because, as this conversation continues,
I want your take on what happened to this technology after the
war. The significance of Kammler...
JF: Right.
BR: ...and what happened to him. [Farrell laughs] What
happened to this technology and the deals that may have been
made?
JF: Right.
BR: …and whoever, and where it is now. What happened to it?
JF: Okay.
BR: This is not the kind of thing that’s just abandoned, is it a
failed project?
JF: No-no. [laughs]
BR: Certainly not. There are too many smart people...
JF: Oh, yes!
BR: ...who are too interested in keeping on playing with this
incredible toy.
JF: Okay, well let me dispense with Montauk. That is not a
project that I have investigated deeply, Okay? I’ve investigated
enough to know that there’s a lot of (if I can use the expression)
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
wacky stuff out there and I just don’t want to go there. There’s
been really only one good book about it, in my estimation, and I
can’t even recall the title of it.
From some of the descriptions of the project: Yeah, it appears
that they’re kind of investigating similar things, but not really. So
I don’t make a connection between the Bell and Montauk at all in
my mind intuitively. It just has too many... it’s got too many
elements like the Vril society channeling all this information and
that’s where we are getting this science. It’s got too much of that
for me.
But as for where does the Bell go. The way I kind of outline in
my books it appears to me that Martin Bormann is the key figure
here. And in each and every case that we see these German
scientists surrendering to the Allies, let’s give the example of the
rocket scientists, we in the United States get sort of the crème de
la crème, Okay? As to where the Bell goes. In my opinion Martin
Bormann sees to it that the Allies and the Soviet Union get more
or less an equal division of the technological spoils.
He sees to it, according to my research, that the United States
gets crucial atom bomb components. Fissile U235, infrared
proximity fuses that are a nice handy thing to have around when
you are trying to detonate plutonium cores, all of this technology
he sees to it that the United States gets. He sees to it that the
Soviet Union gets a crucial Nazi scientist that had developed
certain isotope enrichment technologies.
BR: Who was that?
JF: Baron Manfred from Arjona, who, of course, used cyclotrons
and mass spectrometers just like Lawrence did over here. So this
goes to the Soviet Union—oops!—along with the centrifuge
technology. So he’s seeing to it that all of this technology is
being equally divided.
But if you’re going to have a post war, extra-territorial Nazi state,
so to speak, and it’s going to have organization, and if you are
going to have an ongoing research project, there’s two things you
can’t have: You can’t have atom bombs because that’s going to
require large enrichment plants, of course that’s going to be an
easy target. You can’t have large rocket gantries you are going to
need a project that is truly sensational and would pay massive
dividends and yet be a project that you could much easier keep
secret, okay? And that’s the Bell.
BR: Okay.
JF: So in other words, what I’m telling you is, the Allies and the
Soviet Union get the jets, the rockets, the infrared sights, the
computers, the semi-conductor chips, you know, all of this stuff.
But the project that was classified war decisive the Nazi’s keep to
themselves.
In my research I think that, definitely, a case can be made that the
post war fusion project that was taking place in Juan Peron’s
Argentina, is really nothing more than a continuation of certain
aspects of this Bell project. In other words, with all of those
Nazis located in Argentina, including —as I make a case in my
books—Martin Bormann himself. You have the boss, in other
words, right there in the area where this secret Argentine project
is being conducted.
45
So, in other words, Peron is not really the one that is in control of
this. It’s Bormann. He’s the financier, okay? So you have the Bell
not going to the West, not going to the Soviet Union, you have it
going to Argentina. Now, you mentioned Kammler...
KC: I’m sorry, but I have to ask...
JF: Sure.
KC: Don’t you think there’s a very good chance that what was
going on in Argentina was under the purview of the United
States? Because a lot of the head Nazis did go to the United
States, wouldn’t you say?
JF: Well, there are Nazis that go here but the important ones, no.
And the reason I say that is that... If you go back to my book SS
Brotherhood of the Bell, I pick up on something that Igor
Witkovsky very explicitly mentions in his book, and that is that it
appears that the United States was desperately trying to
reconstruct the personnel team of the Bell. In other words, we
didn’t get the people, and if we’re trying to reconstruct the
personnel team, that means we didn’t get the documents from the
project and probably we didn’t get the device.
If we had the device we probably wouldn’t have needed much of
the personnel. So we really didn’t get much of anything. I’ve
only been able to identify two Bell scientists that made it to this
country. One was, incidentally, Dr. Hubertus Strughold who was
involved in the medical aspect of the project. The other one was a
fellow by the name of Dr. Kurt Debus.
Now this guy is an interesting character because he apparently
was one of these top scientists because he was the man that
designed the power plant for the Bell. Now here’s why he’s
significant. I have a picture of him in SS Brotherhood of the Bell
and he’s standing right next to Dr. Wernher Von Braun [laughs]
at NASA and you’re nodding your head and smiling, you know
where this is going!
He’s standing right next to Wernher Von Braun at NASA, and
they are kind of pointing off to something in the distance like
that, and he’s a senior flight director for the Apollo program at
Cape Canaveral. So in other words, as an administrator, he’s got
his hands in all the NASA pies. But the man isn’t even a rocket
scientist. He’s an electrical engineer.
BR: It’s really weird, isn’t it?
JF: Well, it’s so weird [laughs] to go there where you want me to
go. It’s so weird that I happen to think that this indicates that
there’s an alternative technology in play here.
BR: Okay.
JF: In the Apollo program.
BR: Yup! Let me inject a little anecdote that may make you
smile. This is a personal anecdote, and I don’t even think Kerry’s
heard this one. My father was a facial recognition expert who
worked with the British home office.
JF: Okay.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: He... Among many things, he invented Photofit, the facial
recognition system used to catch crooks.
JF: Okay.
BR: And Identi-kit, which preceded it, was an idea that was
stolen from him.
JF: Right.
BR: And every now and then the British home office would
consult him with a special request. And I remember sitting
around the kitchen table, in the 1970’s when I was in my mid-
twenties, and my father looking at pictures of Martin Bormann…
JF: [laughs] Oh boy.
BR: …and he had been approached by the British home office
who had some pictures of an old man that had been sent to them
either from Brazil or Argentina, and I cannot remember which,
(and my father is now no longer with us) and my father was
being tasked to state whether or not this man, that had been found
in the 1970’s, was Martin Bormann and my father said: Yes it
absolutely was. So, how about that for a little anecdote?
JF: Yeah, well. [laughs] I’ve got an anecdote of my own. It’s not
my personal anecdote but I mention in my Nazi International
book that the CBS journalist Paul Manning, that was a close
associate of Ed Murrow, you know, the very famous journalist
that was in the UK during the blitz and later on TV.
Well, Manning wrote a book. This was after Ladislas Farago had
come out with his book about Martin Bormann, the Fourth Reich
and all that stuff. Well Manning, I think, in a certain sense, was
kind of miffed at the way they had treated a fellow journalist, and
he wrote a book called Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile. And he
basically verified that the documents that Farago had used in his
book were real. They were legit, okay?
Well he found something else. [laughs] He found that Martin
Bormann—I think around 1967—had cashed a check [laughs] at
Manufacturers Hanover and Chase Manhattan Bank. It was
cleared through Deutsche Bank in Buenos Aires in Argentina,
and the check had been cashed over his own signature. [laughs]
BR: Incredible. [Farrell laughs] Amazing.
KC: I don’t understand. I mean, you can back off the link
between this—I don’t know how to say his name—the guy in
Florida…
JF: Debus. Kurt Debus.
KC: …Debus. Okay, and Bormann. In other words you’re, in
essence, saying they no longer spoke?
JF: Oh no, no, no! I’m not backing off that link at all. Quite the
contrary. No. I’m very much in agreement with Richard
Hoagland and Mike Bara that, you know, in Dark Mission they
outlined the case that, by the time of these late Apollo missions,
46
it’s the Nazis that are the most significant influence inside of
NASA.
No, quite the contrary. In fact, one of the things I try and mention
in SS Brotherhood of The Bell, is that our early monitoring of
these German scientists, that were over here as part of our missile
program and then the early space program, discovered that there
seemed to be a sort of chain of command between all of these
Nazis still in existence, and that they even had mail drops.
And they were driving these fancy cars and getting money from
they-knew-not-where. That it wasn’t coming from a NASA
scientist salary. They were driving around [laughs] in these
Mercedes cars but nothing was ever done about it. That’s, to me,
what’s suspicious because yeah, that clearly indicates they’ve got
some connection to this post war Nazi organization. Very clearly
and very palpably.
KC: So what about Wernher Von Braun…
JF: Uh-huh.
KC: …what about him, and the link with…
JF: …with all of this?
KC: Yeah. With Debus. Because, if they are working together, is
there more than just a working relationship? In other words, what
I’m trying to find out is, where did he fit in to this echelon…
JF: …to this picture? Alright! Good question. I do not, in my
books, speculate on what that relationship may be. But I'll do so
here because I think it's an excellent question.
If you look at Mr. Hoagland and Mr. Bara’s hypothesis in Dark
Mission, what you have ultimately is a two-track space program.
You’ve got one that’s out there for public consumption with the
rockets and, you know, all the fireworks and flag-waving, Mom
and apple pie. And then there is something else. It’s like you’re
dealing with a black hole of news. There’s news stories around it
and then there’s this big black hole right in the middle that’s
conspicuous for its blackness, okay?
Well, this little picture of von Braun and Debus, to me, is sort of
the icon of what you’re seeing with this two-track space program,
because very clearly these two men are engaged in a private
conversation that’s behind glass; they’re both wearing their
earphones. They’re both kind of close to each other and they’re
pointing off in the distance to something, okay? So I think this
relationship goes back to Nazi Germany because I do know that
Debus was also part of von Braun’s team at Peenemünde. And
what he was doing for von Braun there was, he was constructing
the measuring equipment for these stationary rocket test gantries
that the Nazis had built there. But he’s also got this connection to
the Bell.
Now this is why I find this question interesting, because if you go
into the Cooper-Cantwell documents (MAJIC 12 documents)—
and I’m not arguing for or against their authenticity; I’m saying
I’m looking only at the internal evidence of the documents
themselves—they kind of corroborate this picture because what
they suggest is that these Nazi Paperclip rocket scientists were
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
brought in to look at this Roswell wreckage. And the first
question that occurs to my mind: Well, why bring in Nazi
scientists if you suspect this is ET? You’re gonna want to keep
that as classified as possible from your former enemy, okay? But
you bring ’em in because it looks German.
And von Braun... Okay? You’ve got von Braun and Arthur
Rudolph and all these Nazi scientists looking at this stuff and
they come up with this explanation of what this is. It’s some sort
of Neutronic engine with fusion that’s taking place, and so on and
so forth. And that tells me that if that’s true, then somebody—if
it’s disinformation—somebody knows that Debus and von Braun
communicated something way back in Nazi Germany and that
von Braun knew enough about this other secret project to be able
to say that to his American interrogators.
Hence, we go back to that picture. What that picture represents to
me is that this two-track space program begins in World War
Two and in Nazi Germany. Because what do you have? You’ve
got rockets that are very visible. And you’ve got this Bell thing
and all of this secret stuff that really doesn’t even come out until
after German Reunification. The Nazis are seeing to it that the
Soviet Union and the United States get the jets and the rockets,
but they’re keeping this to themselves.
BR: If they’re keeping it to themselves, what have they been
doing with it in the last 63 years?
JF: Excellent question. Because if you can imagine... Let’s just
go back. You’ve got Martin Bormann sitting in Argentina, with a
joint bank account with Juan Peron, that’s sitting on top of almost
eight hundred million dollars. That’s a hefty chunk of change at
that point in history. Properly invested... and Bormann was a
financial whiz. I mean there’s no doubt about this. He knew how
to move money and make money. Properly invested, you can
sustain this kind of independent project, move it around. At some
point I think it’s going to require a partner if it’s gonna be made
big and practical and usable. Okay?
But yeah, in 63 years it’s very feasible to me that they’ve worked
out the medical bugs, you know, that you can put somebody
inside of one of these contraptions and fly it around, okay? Yeah,
it’s very conceivable that this would be possible.
It’s conceivable to me that at an even earlier date you could take
aspects of that technology and wed it to more conventional
technologies to kind of boost their efficiency, so to speak. This is
why I think that picture of Debus and von Braun at NASA is very
telling, because if Debus is involved in Apollo and in The Bell...
Again, that to me points to an alternative technology, possibly.
That and other things. I’m certainly not arguing the whole case
on that.
So yeah, in 63 years what could they do with this? You know,
project the learning curve. You know, to me it’s very feasible the
medical issues have been solved. They may have been able to
find a practical application for free energy. But you know, here’s
the bad news: Once again, they may have been able to weaponize
this stuff. And that, to me, is the scariest part.
BR: But if I understand you right, you’re suggesting there’s an
isolated group of Nazis; maybe their descendents...
47
JF: Right.
BR: ...somewhere in South America, probably Argentina...
JF: Brazil, Chile... [laughs] Yeah.
BR: Etcetera, yeah. With access to this salvaged and exported
exotic technology...
JF: Mm-hm.
BR: ...with continued funding and continued protection from
somewhere.
JF: Somewhere.
BR: That are doing what? They’re not having to pay their
electricity bills? They’re flying around, looking around, and
weaponizing it against who? This doesn’t seem to make sense on
its own.
JF: Okay. Let me give you a context. The modern financial
meltdown, to me, is a sign that there is a breakdown occurring
between the old postwar détente. And what do I mean by that?
The founders of the Bilderberg Group were Lawrence and David
Rockefeller; a Rothschild was involved. That represented kind of
the Anglo-American corporate interest.
But on the European side, who is the principal founder? Prince
Bernhard of the Netherlands. Who’s Prince Bernhard? He’s an
SS officer. And therefore, if you still have an extant post-war
Nazi chain of command, and we’ve already mentioned that we
do... If you have an extant post-war Nazi chain of command, then
an SS officer like Bernhard answers to his chief, which is Martin
Bormann, who holds an SS four-star general’s rank, okay? But
Bernhard is also a vice president of—oh, looky-looky—IG
Farben, okay? Which, incidentally, I want to point out, IG Farben
was only finally completely liquidated in what year?
BR: I have no idea.
JF: 2003.
BR: Really!
JF: Yes. [laughs]
BR: Okay.
JF: This corporation was so big and so huge, and all of these
licensing agreements that it had all over the world were in such a
tangle that it took literally that long to finally get rid of the whole
thing. That’s an enormous amount of power.
KC: But did Bormann report to von Braun?
JF: No. Von Braun reported... If anyone’s reporting in that chain,
it’s von Braun reporting to Bormann. Okay?
KC: Okay.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JF: But let’s get back to Prince Bernhard, because present at
these early Bilderberger meetings is a very significant figure. It’s
Dr. Hermann Josef Abs, who is the CEO of Deutsche Bank, one
of the world’s largest international banks. The bank that,
incidentally, cleared Bormann’s check in Buenos Aires that was
drawn on Manufacturers Hanover and Chase Manhattan; big
Rockefeller banks. Morgan Rockefeller interests.
So putting all of these little pieces together, what it looks like to
me is that the Bilderberger group’s first secret purpose after the
war was to take all of this liquid cash that is sitting in the hands
of these post-war Nazis and move it through these Western
banks, make it available to these Western bankers. And a lot of it,
I suspect, was even kept off the books. They’re laundering a huge
amount of money, in other words.
Now, here’s the problem. I like to say—and I thank Richard
Hoagland for this kind of analogy because he came out with this
one at a conference and I just love it: With Martin Bormann
we’re dealing with a Dick Cheney without the warmth and
charm.
So in other words, when they’re negotiating these deals, you
know: We agree with you. Corporate fascism is the way to go
and we’re agreed that world domination is kind of a cool idea
and we’re willing to play ball with each other. And here’s a lot of
money to do it. [laughs] You know?
Well, when you’re dealing with someone like Bormann, you’re
dealing as I said, with Dick Cheney with no warmth and charm.
That money is going to come with a lot of strings attached, and
when the markers come due you’d better be able to pay.
BR: Mm-hm.
JF: Uh-huh.
BR: Mm-hm.
JF: And if... with Bormann you have an intelligence organization
that was headed up by his friend Heinrich Muller, whom I also
believe escaped Nazi Germany—the actual head of the
Gestapo—you’re dealing with people that cannot only make
threats, but carry them out, even against the extremely wealthy
and the extremely powerful.
KC: But the US won the war.
JF: Sort of.
KC: Why would the US let the Nazis go to Argentina, with their
blessing, without having their hands in that pie?
JF: Simple. Exactly. They’re got their hands in that pie.
KC: Okay.
JF: And Bormann, as I’ve said, has negotiated—again, this is a
part of... I know you’re under time constraints, so for me to
answer that question I’d have to keep you here, okay, but...
48
KC: We [overtalk] a little time here [laughs].
JF: Well, basically what we have with Bormann is working out a
deal to surrender all these atom bomb components to the United
States. So in other words, Bormann already has a certain amount
of moral leverage over the United States. He could easily expose
the whole thing and expose the United States as having made a
deal with the devil. It’s kind of a classical Mexican standoff.
That’s part of the problem that we’re faced with. And again, part
of this deal includes all of this German military intelligence that
gets kind of slid into the CIA, you know, but remains
operationally under the control of the very same Nazi general that
it was in control of during the World War itself.
KC: [overtalk]
BR: And there’s a whole bunch of mind control technology. We
haven’t even gone there.
JF: Oh yes! Exactly! I mean, on and on this goes, you know.
And for me the real point is, is once we make that deal with the
devil, we say: Okay, Martin (or whoever), we need you to take
care of some business and we don’t want to sully our lily-white
American hands with it. But we know that you have the people
who can do this.
Sure. But in doing this deal, any time that happens, you have just
put yourself in the position to be blackmailed and these people
will do it. In other words, they can expose you as being involved
in these, you know, sordid affairs around the world. So I think the
whole result of this deal with the devil... and I think we begin to
realize it right around the 1950s with Eisenhower, because what’s
he warn against when he leaves office? Military-industrial
complex. And he knows all of these Nazis, okay? He knows these
Nazis because he fought them.
And I think the warning he’s giving the American people, and for
that matter The West, as a matter of fact, is not so much against
the homegrown American military-industrial complex, but who’s
infiltrating and weeding their way into all of these positions of
power and influence within it—namely, Nazis. This is a very...
[searching for words] ... I’m sorry to be so inarticulate here
because I’m trying to connect a lot of dots very quickly for you.
But yeah, I think the ultimate reason is: they’ve got a gun to the
Anglo-American elites’ head.
And to bring it up to modern times, what... and again, I’m simply
speculating here in answer to your earlier question, but the
behavior of the corporate elite at the bailout hearings, with this
business of no oversight, and the kind of pronouncements coming
out of major banking leaders and families and groups and so on,
strike me as not being acted-out panic but genuine panic. And as
I go around the world I see panic, but it’s not near the hysteria
and pitch that it is in this country, coming from Europe. There’s
certainly panic in Iceland, but it seems like the further east we go,
the less panic and hysteria there is.
But it’s this bailout without oversight idea that looks to me...
That’s the kind of behavior of someone who’s being blackmailed
with a gun to their head: Well, we want a lot of money but we
can’t tell you what it’s for.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: This is a very, very interesting thesis.
JF: Yeah. It’s very suspicious. Now to put it in the context with
Nazis, and I think the reason, perhaps, for your question is that
the only thing I see within the context of recent history in the last
60 to 70 years that could put that extremely powerful Anglo-
American corporate banking interest or elite in that kind of peril,
is precisely an entity that had enormous amounts of liquid capital
that it moved into their banks and left there for a very long time
as part of the deal: We’ll give you this money. Do with it what you
will. Leave us alone.
BR: Is this the research angle that you would like to follow in the
coming months as more information becomes available about the
current crisis?
JF: I’m not really a conspiracy theorist. I touch on these things
only when it seems like the physics aspects of it lead there. But I
get asked this question a lot, so I’ve kind of speculated, you
know, reasoned out this kind of scenario.
But I can tell you this: I’m researching a book—writing a book
now—that deals with, I hope effectively, deeply-seated and
rooted reasons for this very strange connection between physics
and finance that seems to pop up over and over and over again.
And I’ll only say this: It’s very deeply rooted and very, very old.
BR: Yes. That’s a beautiful thought to leave a lot of people to
ponder.
JF: [laughs] Leave them hanging.
BR: Something that Peter Levenda mentioned beautifully
succinctly when we talked to him last week. He said: Look, the
whole world can’t go broke. Someone’s got to have the money.
JF: Exactly.
BR: And something that seems very obvious to us when we’re
knocking this subject around between us, is that if you look at all
the black projects, all the modern-day equivalents of the Bell
experiments, wherever they are...
JF: Wherever they are.
BR: ...on this planet or even elsewhere, then, you know, this is
costing money. And if you think of money as energy, it’s like
where... You know, this energy is being drained out of the global
circuit, and it’s going somewhere.
JF: Where is it going? [laughs]
BR: Yes. Where is it going? Which is another way of reframing
the same question that I believe you’re asking.
JF: Exactly! Exactly.
BR: Now, just to draw together some of these strings, and there
are a lot of strings.
JF: Oh yes. [laughs]
49
BR: And I know that you don’t even pretend that this is tidy.
JF: Oh no. I certainly don’t. [laughs]
BR: And it’s a little bit like the sort of, you know, out-takes after
a movie: What happened to this character? What happened to
that character? Are you assuming that Hans Kammler ended up
wherever Martin Bormann ended up?
JF: Yes.
BR: Okay. Are you assuming that the reason why the Nazis
never actually used their arguably well-developed nuclear
technology... And this is another whole interview to talk about
the evidence of that.
JF: Sure. Oh yeah. [laughs]
BR: But we support you in your thesis that it looks like it was far
more advanced than anyone has publicly given them credit for.
JF: Right. Right.
BR: But they never used it, even though they tested it and they
had it for quite a few years. Was this because they were planning
to use it as a bargaining chip later?
JF: Possibly. But I think you could possibly also make a case...
Look, one of the things... I’m kind of a military strategy games
buff. I play these things all the time. It’s my entertainment, you
know. I do this like people watch TV or movies, okay? And you
know as well as I do that the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front
achieved this just staggering kill ratio against the Red Army,
against the Russians.
BR: Yeah. Millions of Red soldiers.
JF: Half of the casualties of World War Two were inflicted by
the Nazi war machine on Soviet Russia.
BR: Yeah. And you know I had never understood how such a
tiny nation could go up against all the Russian soldiers...
JF: And just clobber... [laughing]
BR: ...and just knock ’em all out. I could just never understand
that.
JF: Exactly. And you know, from my amateur military historian
standpoint, conventional wisdom or operations here fail to
account for all of this. And incidentally, Russia recently—I think
in the last few years—disclosed the fact that its actual casualties
may have been as much as ten to fifteen million more than that
25 million we’ve been told.
BR: Hm.
JF: So, you know, this tiny, bothersome little country is not only
fighting the United Kingdom, and later on the United States, and
virtually everybody else, but all of that to them is just kind of a
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
sideshow. This enormous military campaign is taking place on
the Eastern Front and, to my mind, as competent and tactically
brilliant as the German Army was, this doesn’t explain it all to
me. So there’s something else going on here, and...
KC: Do you have a theory?
JF: Yeah. Oh yeah. I write about it in my first Nazi book, Reich
of the Black Sun. There are persistent rumors that come out of
Russia, beginning in the war, that the Nazis are using something
on the Eastern Front that they are not using against the Western
allies simply because, of course, the Communists—the
Bolsheviks—are their ideological enemies, you know. So, yeah.
They’re subhuman. We can use all of this grisly technology we
have on them. But...
KC: Are you suggesting bio-warfare?
JF: No. I’m suggesting perhaps radiological bombs. I am
absolutely certain that they’re using some prototypical or first-
generation fuel-air bombs. And if you don’t know what a fuel-air
bomb is, that’s a conventional bomb with the explosive punch of
a tactical nuke. Now, I’ll show... and I’ll go further. I’ll tell you
how they’re using them. They’re using them in rocket-launched
multi-barrel artillery batteries.
So if you can say the phrase tactical nuke and carpet bombing,
you get an idea of, you know, this carnage that they’re inflicting
on the Red Army. And it’s so bad that in 1941 during the battle
for Moscow when the Germans are doing this stuff, the Soviets,
through Sweden, tell the Germans that if they don’t cease and
desist they’ll start using poison gas. You know, it’s that bad.
BR: But there are also... I mean, besides that fascinating
induction from those circumstances...
JF: Right.
BR: ...there are eyewitness reports...
JF: Oh yes. Absolutely.
BR: ...of people who report something that looks exactly like a
nuclear blast.
JF: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. You’ve got all of this stuff going on
on the Eastern Front that is inexplicable without, in my opinion,
the use and deployment of all of these advanced Nazi weapons.
So that’s, I think, why we don’t hear of it. And a final point in
that respect is, during the war Stalin’s government is going to be
loathe to admit that it is facing an enemy that is that much more
technologically superior.
BR: It’s embarrassing at least. [laughs]
JF: At the very least it’s embarrassing. But imagine in the Red
Army when the morale, with this slaughter, this blood-letting
that’s going on, that you have to have Commissars literally
threatening to shoot anyone who deserts, just to maintain morale
at some of these big battles. If Stalin had admitted this publicly,
it, number one, I think could have so severely weakened his
50
government that it might have cost him his government, you
know.
BR: Yes.
JF: And number two, had that been the case, it may have brought
in a government that would have been willing to sue for peace. In
fact, Stalin even tried to do that in 1942.
BR: Yes. And those reports of those generals; first commanders,
being willing to shoot the soldiers who would desert... This is
completely contrary to everything we understand about the
Russian psyche, the Russian personality, the Russian dogged
resistance.
JF: Exactly.
BR: It just doesn’t match, does it?
JF: It doesn’t. Exactly.
KC: I thought it was the Russian winter that stopped the Nazis.
JF: Well, I mean, we get... Yeah. There’s all of this happy
claptrap [Kerry laughs], especially in American, you know,
university and history textbooks.
KC: Okay.
JF: You know, America comes in and saves the day in World
War One. America comes in and saves the day in World War
Two, you know. To me, this is just military baloney.
KC: Okay.
JF: Because we come in fairly late. And if you look at American
campaigns in World War Two, we’re kind of on the periphery of
things all the time. The action’s going on in the Soviet Union.
So, you know, yeah, General Winter and all that. But you can
argue against that thesis because in August of 1941 Adolph Hitler
turns Army Group Center, the Second Panzer Army, 650 miles
south out of the way to encircle some Russian forces in Kiev,
when in front of them he’s 250 miles from Moscow at the end of
August [laughs] and they have decimated sixty percent of the Red
Army and he’s got one Russian rifle division standing between
him and Moscow. So the war was lost, not by General Winter or
General Mud, but by Hitler making this dumb, stupid, silly,
indefensible military decision to take that detour. [laughs]
BR: Yeah.
KC: Is it possible that even that is, you know, disinfo? And that
what really changed the war was the deals being made with the
Americans because they decided they were fighting a losing
battle and they were making monetary deals and getting out of
Germany because they wanted to rewrite history and go in a
different direction?
JF: Okay. Well, I think the deals begin to be struck—the feelers
are put out for them, certainly—in the period from the fall of the
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Sixth Army at Stalingrad up to the failure of the German
offensive at Kursk in 1943; July of 1943. So it’s this time period
KC: That’s early.
JF: That’s fairly early. After Kursk, the offensive capability of
the Wehrmacht is broken for a good year and a half, okay? So it’s
during this period that the Nazi leadership quietly make the
feelers, hope that the offensive goes well, but they put out, they
lay the foundation. After the battle of Kursk, this kicks into high
gear and you have all of these secret negotiations taking place.
Yeah. I think you can make a certain argument that some of this
history has been deliberately doctored to hide this.
BR: It’s a reasonable assumption.
JF: Sure.
BR: Let me ask you one final question...
JF: Okay.
BR: ...although it’s an important one and it could be a big one,
and I don’t know whether it’s an easy one or not.
JF: Okay.
BR: But that is: If there is such a thing as a central power base of
the Nazis now, where is it? Who are they? And what strings are
they pulling? And why should we care?
JF: Ah... Germany and some of the major politicians. [laughs]
BR: Germany? Now?
JF: Germany. Yeah.
BR: Really! I didn’t know you were going to say that!
JF: Yeah, as surprising as it may seem. One of the things that I
looked at very carefully is the German Reunification. When the
Berlin Wall falls, it falls on the exact date—I forget the exact
numerical date in my head—but it falls on the exact date of the
anniversary of Kristallnacht in 1938.
51
BR: Hm.
JF: It falls... and that, incidentally, is the anniversary of the Beer
Hall Putsch. Okay?
BR: Okay.
JF: Now if you go back and recall what’s taking place in East
Germany at the time. There’s all these mass meetings and
demonstrations in Leipzig and Dresden of a bunch of East
German intellectuals that are pushing for the reform of the East
German state. They’re not pushing for reunification.
But then an amazing thing happens—and this, to me, is the dead
giveaway—the meetings themselves begin to have lots of neo-
Nazis start attending. These people show up with cell phones,
computers, and lots of money, and using typical Nazi tactics,
strong-arm any opposition out of these meetings and begin to
kind of steer them so that even the popular slogans that the
reformers were chanting: Wir sind das Volk (We are the people)
is changed to Wir sind ein Volk.
BR: Ah. We are one people.
JF: Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein F¸hrer. Okay?
BR: Yes.
JF: Now, on the other side, Chancellor Köhl’s government in
Bonn is very quietly but very seriously channeling money and
driving this stuff. So, in other words, what I’m saying: you
cannot have neo-Nazi cells in communist Eastern Europe
suddenly popping up with cell phones, computers, all this money,
organized, ready to go, without having had an intelligence
structure in Eastern Europe to begin with to support it.
And when all of this activity happens—BANG—all of a sudden
Bonn has, ready to go, ready to hand, a plan for reunification.
And it’s basically a shotgun wedding and it’s typical Hitler’s
tactics: Well, we’ll give you the opportunity to vote on whether
you want reunification. And again, what happens? When the
referendum is held in those East Germany provinces, the neo-
Nazis show up and they are driving some of this activity to keep
people voting that are going to vote for it and to keep people that
don’t want that out.
BR: But isn’t this part of establishing one of the central planks
for the European Union?
JF: Oh, of course it is!
BR: Okay.
JF: But what does Martin Bormann say that he wants to do after
the war? He wants to create a European federation, or
confederation, which Germany will be able to dominate. And
listen to his words now: By elastic political means. In other
words, he’s learned to speak the lingo to a “T”.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: Okay. But are you saying, then, that whatever may or may
not be going on in America right now is divorced from what
you’ve just described? There’s no connection?
JF: Oh no, no. Not at all. I’ve very alarmed because what I see
happening in America within the last ten, twelve years, is this
emergence of a horrendous fascist police-state/snitch culture. Oh
absolutely. No, I wouldn’t say it’s divorced from it at all.
But I am saying look to Europe and look at recent events very
carefully, and look especially at the events surrounding German
Reunification and the moves Germany made afterward—almost
immediately—to crack up Czechoslovakia and to crack up
Yugoslavia. Because, remember, it was West Germany, the
recently-reunited Germany, that was the first nation to recognize
breakaway Croatia over the opposition of Washington and
London. They did that unilaterally.
And when Croatia got its independence, it turned around and
said: Oh, please help us. Will someone please help us? Send
peace keepers?—BANG—Germany sent troops. BANG—
Germany sent the Luftwaffe. BANG—Germany sold off all that
communist equipment to Croatia and re-equipped the East
German part of the newly-absorbed East German Army with
Bundeswehr equipment.
So look at Germany carefully. And it did a lot more. I mean, go
onto YouTube. This is a kick, because I found on YouTube a
Bundeswehr Wachbataillon doing a music drill show in
Cologne—okay?—in 2005! [laughs]
This just floored me because here in America, you know,
[laughing] we have no idea that this is going on. But they come
marching into this stadium, carrying the Bell Tree, drums a-
blazing, piping out Prussia’s glory. You know? So in other
words, I’m looking at a restoration of all of these old Prussian
military traditions right before my eyes, and the only thing
they’re not doing is the goose step. [laughs] I’m just floored.
But it scares me because I told some friends about five years
before the reunification even happened, I said: You watch. If it
does happen, they will slowly bring back all of those military
traditions. And now, you know, this two, three years later,
they’re holding Torchlight Tattoos with the Bundeswehr again
marching in, carrying the Bell Tree, and all these old Prussian
trappings, doing this Torchlight Military Tattoo out in front of the
Reichstag, you know. So, it’s scary to me. I mean, it’s creepy.
KC: And also...
BR: Understood.
KC: Obama was... did a special...
JF: At the Siegessäule!
KC: At the Gate, right?—[ed. note: Brandenburg Gate]—Which
is supposed to be a very important symbol of the event from the
occult standpoint.
JF: Oh sure! Of course. Yeah. And I don’t think this is a good
symbolism at all. There are some people that do, you know. I’m
52
disagreed with my good friend Richard Hoagland over this. But,
you know, why do we have a presidential candidate go to Berlin?
Sure, it’s nice to have good relations with Europe, obviously.
BR: It’s also got to do with the touch of the Kennedy.
JF: Yeah. It’s good to have good relations with Moscow and
Beijing, [laughs] you know, and that would seem to me to be the
logical place that you would go. But Berlin?
KC: But there’s some subliminal thing going on here.
JF: Oh sure.
KC: I mean, if they’re permeated NASA, they have to permeate
the undercover, you know, black projects...
JF: Right.
KC: ...thoroughly, and that means they’ve permeated the real
secret government of the United States. So there’s an alignment
there.
JF: Okay. Ask yourself this: The Hadron Collider, okay? You’ve
got two huge counter-rotating rings and they’re gonna spin up
these particles and smash ’em together. Okay? I find that whole
counter-rotating idea really weird, you know, suggestively weird.
But the really weird thing to me is: Why is the first Christian
Democratic Union Party Chancellor of Germany after Köhl a
physicist? [Ed. note: he is referring to Angela Merkel.]
BR: Hm.
JF: Did you know that?
BR: I did not.
JF: She’s a Ph.D. in physics. [laughs]
BR: Okay.
JF: Why is she a Ph.D. in physics?
BR: A Ph.D. in physics.
JF: Yeah. Now, you know what a German Ph.D. is like, to get.
BR: I do.
JF: [laughs] You know, they don’t hand them out by any means
and this, to me... Why is someone like that even in politics, but
especially at that level? You know? This is not a Ph.D. in physics
becoming premier of Somalia, you know. [laughs] This is a rather
sophisticated nation, technologically. So that to me, you know...
it’s another little indicator that we have to watch things over there
very carefully.
BR: So now, what’s really fascinating here... As you’ve kindly
pointed out, we are under a pressure of time this evening. We’ve
only done nearly two hours and we could probably do another
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
four without even thinking about it because there are so many JF: Oh yes.
places this conversation can go.
BR: You’ve been describing that part of the iceberg that is not
JF: Oh yeah. often seen.

BR: I don’t know when we will next all be in the same place at JF: Right. Right.
the same time, but right now I would like to say that we’d love to
talk to you again on audio to explore some of these things. BR: Someone’s got to do it, and I think you’ve done a wonderful
job.
JF: Sure. That’d be fine.
JF: Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.
BR: And I’m quite sure I’m gonna wake up tomorrow morning,
if not go down right now in the escalator, with a whole bunch of BR: It’s our pleasure and our privilege to assist you in that, and
questions which I haven’t had a chance to ask. we look forward to seeing you again, and we look forward to
talking to you again.
JF: Right. Right.
JF: It’ll be my pleasure.
BR: What I do want to do is I want to thank you for your
diligence, your creativity, your articulateness in explaining these BR: Thank you very much for your time.
concepts which are difficult for a lot of people to grasp because
this story is so huge.
JF: Thank you.

53
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Jim Marrs - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America
Laughlin, Nevada, February 2009
Jim Marrs - an amiable Texan with twinkling eyes and a mind
like a steel trap - is a veteran researcher and speaker on all topics
connected with the agenda of the New World Order. Project
Camelot is proud to add him to our strong cadre of witnesses.
The books that Jim has authored represent his range of interests
clearly: Crossfire (about JFK), Alien Agenda, Rule by Secrecy,
The Terror Conspiracy, PSI Spies, The Rise of the Fourth Reich,
and Above Top Secret. Jim's broad span of research encompasses
Egyptian and Sumerian mythology, Nazi technology, the ET
presence, modern geopolitical analysis, the power of the military-
industrial complex, the Illuminati, and what one might call the
real history of the twentieth century.
Jim sees the big picture clearly, has great command of detail, and
is one of the strongest speakers on the lecture circuit today. The
title of this video - The Rise of the Fourth Reich in America - tells
its own story, and in this 75 minute interview Jim lays out the
compelling and disturbing evidence that while most people
thought the Second World War ended in 1945, the Nazis were
never stopped in their agenda - which can only be understood
when one considers how they were assisted in coming to power
by those Controllers who plan in terms of generations... not terms
of government office.
Introduction
Jim Marrs (JM): ...and it was on the way to the printer, and then
somebody somewhere just said: No. And it stopped.
Bill Ryan (BR): I have a piece of off-record information for you,
Jim, which we can go into backchannel if you want to.
JM: Okay.
BR: I have it in writing from Kit Green -- that the remote
viewing program was never closed down, and went
underground...
54
JM: Yeah.
BR: ...with the use of drugs, hypnosis and electronics. I have this
in writing. But maybe this is old news.
Kerry Cassidy (KC): That’s old news to Jim...!
JM: What’s wild though is, I’ll tell you, here’s my take: if you
go ask somebody in government: Do you have a remote viewing
unit? They’re going to say: No. And, technically, I think they’re
telling the truth. Because when you say it went underground,
what they did was they just spread it all out. Now, all these
various organizations, such as Navy SEALS, Army Rangers and
the DEA and all like that, they all have the remote viewers.
BR: Mm hm.
KC: That’s right.
JM: But it’s not... they’re not... They don’t have a set, you know,
official program of remote viewers, they just blended them all in
with everybody else.
Start of interview
KC: This is Project Camelot -- Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan --
and we’re here with Jim Marrs. He’s a very well known writer;
very strong investigator. He’s written several very well known
books, very successful books: Crossfire and Rule by Secrecy and
Alien Agenda and The Rise of the Fourth Reich.
And we’re actually here to talk to Jim about The Rise of the
Fourth Reich. [speaking directly to Jim] We’re going to kind of
concentrate on that area, but we want to go all over the map,
because I know that the secrets of remote viewing is something
you’re very, very familiar with, and...
You’ve just covered the whole gamut -- it’s really amazing -- and
you do so in a very coherent way. It’s very understandable. I
think that no one can read one of your books and go: Well that’s
the most outlandish thing I ever heard, it’s not true. I think that
basically you back up everything you’ve got to say. You were a
journalist originally, is that right?
JM: Still am. [laughs]
KC: Okay. Still working, a working journalist...
JM: Right.
KC: ...on top of your books, and...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JM: Unfortunately there’s no real journals around anymore;
[laughs] only corporate advertising delivery systems.
KC: Right, absolutely. And, basically, you’re considered
something of an expert on the Kennedy assassination as well,
aren’t you?
JM: Well, that’s where I cut my teeth, as a working
newspaperman in the Dallas, Fort Worth area, going all the way
back to the ‘60s.
KC: Amazing. So, you’re also doing the circuit, you’re talking at
various conferences, and we’re here today at Laughlin -- where
the UFO Congress is being held -- and you’ve just given a
wonderful speech.
So, what we want to do is talk about where America is going
from your point of view, get some of the background -- the
background, the Nazis and so on -- and what you’ve been talking
about in your newest book. And also, then, sort of circle back
around and talk a little bit about UFOs, the secrecy, and what
might be seen in the future.
BR: I have a question of my own which I could add there as an
adjunct, which is: why would somebody be talking about The
Rise of the Fourth Reich at a UFO conference? How’s that for a
question?
JM: [laughs]
KC: Well, okay, and I have to say that we’re in some interesting
times right now, that are actually bringing forth this questioning
that I think is... not even just UFO nuts, but political aficionados,
the man on the street; everyone’s questioning their reality right
now, I think...
JM: I think...
KC: ...and why what’s happening in America is going on.
JM: I think you’re absolutely correct. Because of the crumbling
economy, and because so many people are now waking up and
realize that no matter whether they vote for a democrat or
republican they seem to get the same socialist programs, they are
now beginning to realize that there is a whole different paradigm
than what is portrayed in the corporate mass media.
And so, the question is, why am I talking about The Fourth Reich
at a UFO Congress? And I think the answer is because people
who disregard the subject of UFOs and who just write that off as
just total fantasy and lunacy; they will never, ever, be able to
figure out what’s truly happening in the world because they’re
tossing out a big piece of the puzzle. It’s all part of the same big
mosaic and you have to put all these pieces together to figure out
what’s going on.
Just as a “for instance”: I truly believe that one of the main
reasons for our precipitous invasion of Iraq was to make a beeline
for Baghdad, and use a mob scene as a cover, for a very
concerted effort to loot the Iraqi National Museum. What were
they after? They were after newly discovered artifacts, tablets,
scrolls and such that were being found in the ancient Sumerian
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cities of Uruk and some of these other places by French and
German archaeological teams -- interestingly enough, the two
countries who were most opposed to our entry into Iraq.
And what was taken? Very possibly knowledge of ancient energy
manipulation technology. And this gets into anti-gravity and a
bunch of weird and exotic technologies that conventional science
would laugh at. But then, when you really study the issue, you
find that these technologies have been worked on since at least
World War II and have been kept under very ultra-secret
classification programs ever since, because this is our leading
edge technology.
So, you can see how it all ties together; Ancient history, UFOs,
secret societies, the world government. It’s all part of the same
big ball of wax, and unless you back off and take that broad
overview and study a wide variety of topics, you’re never going
to figure out what’s going on.
BR: This is something that Bill Cooper said, I remember, in one
of his very famous lectures that he gave in ’89 or ’90 -- you may
well remember it yourself -- he said: If you don’t factor UFOs
into this jigsaw puzzle, you’ll never understand what modern
geopolitical events are all about.
KC: Aren’t we also talking about star gates and, you know,
because when you get into free energy, you get into -- from what
I understand -- vortexes, and you get into the possibility there is a
star gate in Iraq as well that they might be covering up. And then
you get into the Annunaki, and... so you’re into aliens or ETs,
whatever you want to call them. Have you gone down that road at
all?
JM: Well, sure. When you follow the evidence, that’s where it
takes you back to. And we mentioned the possibility of a star gate
or some sort of dimensional portal in Iraq, you know, that takes
me back to the Bible and the story of King Nebuchadnezzar. He
built this structure out of gold, which they translate as a fiery
furnace, but obviously it was something else because people went
in and out of it.
Of course, when his people when in, they tended to keel over and
die, which tells me it was some sort of an energy field. Then he
got the three Hebrew priests and told them to make it work, and
put them in there. And, lo and behold, eventually there was four
people in there. So three went in and four [laughs] came out, so
obviously they were opening some sort of a portal, or a gateway.
KC: Wow. That’s very interesting. So, where do you want to
take us with this? Because I know that there’s a whole movement
in your speech, where you’re talking about manna from heaven,
the monochromatic gold, monotonomic... how do you say it?
JM: The... [laughs] It’s the single-atom gold, monatomic...
monatomic gold.
KC: Okay.
JM: Orbitally rearranged monatomic gold. Single-atom
elements. These, by the way, this is nothing that’s just outrageous
and unheard-of because monatomic gold, silver, heavy metals --
they’re in everything. They’re in water, they’re in food, we ingest
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
them. This is just something else -- another layer of our 3-D
material existence -- that we had not been aware of prior to the
‘70s and ‘80s. But then, that’s nothing new. You go back a
hundred years, they weren’t aware of atoms. So, you know, we’re
learning.
I think the thing is, and the reason we need to look into this
exotic stuff and the question of ETs is because I think that we are
in a conditioning process right now, that yes, there may be life in
outer space, and this presents a danger. Because I know and I
have seen the government documents. There are plans.
Contingency plans and government files that, at some point,
when they can’t make the international enemy list work, is they...
You know, at one point back in the early twentieth century, it was
the international Jewish conspiracy. Well, that fell apart. Then
there was the international Communist conspiracy, and then that
fell apart. Now it’s the international terrorist conspiracy. And yet,
if you stop and think about it, how’re we supposed to believe
that’s real when they will not do anything to secure the borders of
the United States? So that’s a sham too, and when that begins to
fall apart, then -- according to authoritarian sources -- the next
thing is going to be a threat from outer space just like Ronald
Reagan warned us about in his speech to the United Nations.
So, if you don’t want to be panicked and stampeded by this
phony threat from space, then you’ll study the UFO issue and
you’ll find out the truth about the issue. And then when they say:
Oh, no, there really are aliens and they’re coming to eat you and
you have to give up all the rest of your liberties so we can protect
you, you can say: Nah, I don’t think so.
KC: Right, absolutely. So, through remote viewing... You
became a remote viewer yourself, is that right?
JM: I have... In my study of remote viewing, I did participate in
some remote viewing studies and in some testing and, interesting
enough, I tested pretty well [laughs].
KC: I’m not surprised, because you’ve got a great sort of
objectivity about the way you look at different topics, and from
what I understand -- I studied remote viewing a little myself --
and I understand that it really takes sort of an impartial look at
what’s in, you know, on the other side, so to speak.
JM: I was kind of surprised to find out that I tested so well in
remote viewing. But then as I thought about it, it really wasn’t
that surprising because as a journalist and a newspaperman I had
long-since learned to somewhat trust my intuition...
KC: You have to.
JM: ... and my intuition rarely let me down. And that’s, of
course, that’s getting to the soft psychic signal that’s at the heart
of the remote viewing experience.
KC: Absolutely. So, where are you with that? As far as using
that in what you’re kind of... you’re going down this road, you’re
investigating the Nazi connection behind our government and
what’s going on now in America, and... So how does the remote
viewing help you in that journey?
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JM: Well, it’s [laughs] actually not much at all, which is
surprising and probably pretty stupid. But it’s like, you know, I
know I should exercise a whole lot more than I do but I just don’t
because I’m too busy doing other things, and it’s the same thing
with remote viewing. I really probably should sit down, at least
once a day, and try to keep my remote viewing skills up to razor
edge but I don’t, [laughs] because...
KC: But you are using your intuition, right?
JM: Right.
KC: In your investigations...
JM: It’s helped me learn to even give more trust to my intuition.
KC: Right. So, where are we going as a country right now, and
why?
JM: The United States has always been -- at least been attempted
to be -- dominated by a wealthy elite, and that goes all the way
back. Alexander Hamilton and his rich friends, they wanted to
run the country, because they felt like that the rich people knew
how to handle things and somehow had better sense than
everybody else. So, that’s nothing new, and as a result the United
States has always had a somewhat conservative bend to it. And
that’s ok too, because ‘specially when you have a great country
with... full of resources and everybody’s prospering and, you
know, you want to... let’s conserve everything we have.
So there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But, unfortunately,
with the influx of National Socialists -- which in the German
language the acronym of which is NAZI -- with the influx of
Nazis after World War II, being aided and abetted and funded by
Wall Street financiers and people who consider themselves
globalists, they have no particular interest in the United States,
per se; they want to try to run the world.
First into the military industrial complex, and then into the
defense industries, and then into academia, and then into other
professions, this National Socialism has been worming its way
into the United States since after World War II. And it really
came to fore when George Herbert Walker Bush became
President -- whose grandfather was actually prosecuted by the
Federal Government of the United States in late 1942 for being a
financial front man for Hitler and the Nazis -- and then his son,
George W.
And during the eight years of the George W. administration we
saw the rise and the dominance of Neo-Cons, or Neo-
Conservatives, which is nothing less than just another name for
National Socialism. So we saw this whole country tend towards
the right; towards fascism. And because fascism is defined as the
blending of state and corporate power, I don’t think there’s
anyone who can argue that that’s not the case in the United States
today.
The big difference is, in Nazi Germany, the state gained control
over the corporations, and it was that combination that created
that fascist state; and in modern America we have the
corporations gaining control over the state through lobbyists and
through pacts and through the groups that... they now control the
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government. But the end result’s the same, a blending of
corporate and state power, which is fascism.
Now after eight years of this fascism, people were beginning to
chafe. Even the people who thought they really wanted to support
George W. Bush because he said all the right things began to
realize that all he was doing was pushing socialist programs and
waging unprovoked wars of aggression. So there was a backlash,
and now we have shifted from National Socialism to Marxist
Socialism, under Barack Obama.
But nothing really has changed, because in the Bush W.
administration all the top important people were members of the
secretive Council on Foreign Relations, which has dominated
U.S. foreign policy since before World War II and was created
for the express purpose of bringing in a world government. And
under the Barack Obama administration we find that all of his top
cabinet members, they’re all members of the Council on Foreign
Relations. So the very same secretive, wealthy elite is still
running this country, only now under the guise of Marxist
Socialism.
And after four years of Marxist Socialism and the attendant
collapse, probably, of the U.S. economy, then we’re going to be
all set up to really go for a new dictator -- a new Führer -- as
people, in their panic over the economy and over the social
programs, they will swing back and vote for some dictator. This
is the same methodology that was used in pre-war Germany; by
the same people.
KC: Ok. Well, enter free energy into that scenario and what do
you get? Because we do see the destruction of the American
economy; we see the World economy going down, as a matter of
fact. But where does free energy kind of fit into this puzzle, if
you will, and certainly it’s in Black Projects, as we know and
we’ve documented in various videos with various people.
I know you’re involved in working with Gordon Novel and the
RAM Project, on some level, although I’m not sure how. So
maybe you could..? So that puts you in a really interesting
position to view how free energy is coming into this puzzle.
JM: Right. Well, there are several question marks in the whole
equation, and free energy is obviously one of them. If we could
break the stranglehold of the monopoly of petrochemicals and
come up with some sort of a free energy, the whole equation
would change. And this is what’s going on right now. There are
some very, very intense, interdicting and covert conflicts going
on over which technology that we want to go to; who’s going to
control it.
For example, we hear talk of fuel cells for vehicles. The reason
we don’t have it yet is because they haven’t figured out yet how
to get a monopoly over it. So this, again, is going to depend on
how the future paradigm begins to shape up. I would like to see
some sort of economy set up that’s not monopoly based; that
everyone has a little bit of everything.
In fact, to give you an example: to me, the biggest example -- and
proof -- of conspiracy in the world today is the fact that even
while people are sitting here watching this interview, in the back
of their mind they realize that somewhere there are literally
thousands -- if not millions -- of children starving to death. Now,
57
is it because the Earth cannot produce enough food to feed those
children? No, of course not. We have the technology that we
could feed and clothe and house and give reasonable, minimal
health care to every single person on this planet.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: So, why don’t we? Well, once you get past the facile
explanations such as: Oh, it’s politics, and it’s transportation,
and the cost is great, and you know... get past that. It’s that way
because somewhere somebody wants it that way. If nobody
wanted it that way, it wouldn’t be that way. There’s more of us
than there are of these New World Order people. We simply need
to get all the people of good conscience and good heart together
and say: We don’t want it that way.
KC: Absolutely. Well, okay. But there is a ruling elite, right?
JM: Right.
KC: And you’ve delved into that, I’m sure, in…
JM: Right, and I’ve detailed them and tracked their history.
KC: Okay, so you’re talking about -- just for the of the video --
Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations, certainly Majestic
12, and I know you’re...
JM: Trilateral Commission...
KC: ...you’re something of an expert on them, right?
JM: Mm hm.
KC: So, all of these organizations are rolling out an agenda right
now, and the question is: how soon is what they’re going to
accom... are they going to be done accomplishing this, you know,
Fourth Reich, if you call it, in your opinion? Is this something...
are we already there?
JM: We’re very, very close to a Fourth Reich, because “reich” in
German simply means “empire”, and the United States today, of
course, is the preeminent empire on the planet. It’s going to be up
to us, the members of the empire -- citizens of the empire --
whether we act as an empire and become the imperial empire, in
which case we’re probably going to take a fall just like the
Roman Empire, just like the Third Reich and everybody else. Or,
do we try to bring peace, prosperity to everybody instead of
trying to lord it over and hog the resources of the planet. And it’s
basically just kind of a consciousness shift, is what it is.
A good illustration is in my home state of Texas. When I was a
kid the highways were just terrible. They were littered because
people just, you know, you got through with your drink, you just
threw it out the window. And it wasn’t that we thought we were
littering and were trying to do bad, we just didn’t know any
better. We just said: Ah well, I’m through with that and it’s out
the window.
But they instituted a Don’t Mess with Texas program; signs
everywhere, and they raised the consciousness. And people began
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to realize: Wait, it’s not really right to throw all your trash out on
the highway. And I’m not going to try and say that highways in
Texas today are spotless, but they are 150 percent better than
what they used to be, and not because of any of the littering laws
-- although they’re on the books, but I don’t know of anybody
that’s ever gotten a ticket for littering -- but the consciousness
raising; and we could do the same thing with the people of the
United States.
The people of the United States are good people. We give more
to charity than all the other nations of the world combined. And if
we simply understood the truth of the situation and we’re not
being pushed from pillar to post by the corporate-controlled mass
media, then I think we could probably figure out ways to handle
the situation, and to spread the wealth, to where everyone could
have a little piece of the American Dream.
KC: Well, wouldn’t you say, though, that there’s some kind of
plan afoot to take down the American government altogether? I
mean, that’s actually what’s being fought behind the scenes?
JM: That’s absolutely true and that’s what’s going on. Because
the United States has been the biggest stumbling block to these
globalists who want to see a one world government, one world
socialist system. The reason for that is because in the United
States we have a tradition and history of individual freedom. And
we have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which gives us a
legal basis for our individual freedom and liberty. And three, we
have guns and we can see to ourselves that we have individual
freedom and liberty.
But right now there are... there’s a movement afoot under the new
Obama administration to register firearms, to register
ammunition, and to basically try to disarm the population. And if
that ever comes to fruition, then we’re just going to become serfs
in a new Middle Age of feudalism.
KC: Well, what about China, you know, because there’s talk that
China may be set to invade at some point in the future; that we
may be having war with China. Have you heard anything to that
effect?
JM: Well, you know, some Chinese generals are even on the
public record saying war with the United States is inevitable. I
don’t know why. Right now we’re totally dependent on each
other. We’re dependent on China to produce just about
everything that we use. You know, go into any store and pick up
a product and look on the bottom and it’ll say Made in China.
KC: Right.
JM: Okay, but then, likewise, they’re dependent upon us because
if we’re not there to buy all this junk from them [laughs] they
don’t have a market. So, I think that some of this belligerence is
concocted. Because actually...
KC: Absolutely.
JM: If you want to know what the... Here’s the real game plan,
okay?
KC: Okay.
58
JM: This was articulated back in 1948 by a man named Eric
Arthur Blair, who was a British Fabian Socialist and very well
connected to the royals and to the aristocracy there in England.
And I think he actually had a pretty good view on what the
overall game plan was, so he wrote it all down in a book under
the pen name George Orwell.
KC: [laughs] Okay.
JM: And, of course, that was 1984.
KC: Right.
JM: And in there, if you’ll go back and re-read 1984, you’ll find
that they had divided the world into three economic blocks. In
1984 they called it Oceania, Asiana and East Asiana. In today’s
real world it’s the European Union, the soon to be North
American Union and the future Asian Union. And then what they
did is they play two of those blocks off against each other
perpetually to create the tension necessary for arms races, and for
defense spending, and lots of loans going through; that generates
profit and control over the population.
KC: Right.
JM: That’s the game plan.
KC: Okay, well that’s a great overview of what’s in operation
right now. Do you believe that there’s also... ah, you know, the
Georgia Guidestones; basically what they say, which is
elimination of the population is one of their objectives?
JM: Right. Whoever build the Georgia Guidestones, again I
think, was privy to this New World Order agenda. And this is
where I do depart from their thinking. I have an interview with
General Maxwell Taylor that was done in the early ‘70s and he --
being not only our last ambassador to Vietnam but also a ranking
member of the Council on Foreign Relations -- I think he was
fully articulating their thinking.
He said, basically, that by the beginning of the next century --
well that’s now -- he said we have to eliminate about a third of
the world’s population because, he said, the basic overall
problem is overpopulation. And that lays at the heart of all the
other problems; pollution and economy and everything. And he
said this will be done by limited regional conflicts like Iraq,
[laughs] Afghanistan...
KC: Uh-huh.
JM: ...disease -- AIDS in Africa -- and starvation, which is
prevalent in many of the Third World nations. And he said: I’m
not sure we can save these people, and I’m not even sure we
should try. And so, that is their thinking to decrease the world’s
population.
Now, here’s the fallacy in their thinking: there really is no
overpopulation problem. I heard this stated some years ago -- I
didn’t quite believe it, so I checked -- but it’s absolutely true. The
entire 6.5 billion human population could actually live
comfortably enough in the state of Texas.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: [laughs] Really?
JM: Really. So, it’s not a overpopulation problem, it’s a
population concentration problem. You have most of the world is
jammed into these huge metropolitan areas, big mega-cities,
okay?
KC: Right.
JM: There are other ways of doing things, okay? I could picture
a world where you and Bill could live out in a beautiful
countryside, a rural setting, okay? Got your little lake there, and
you’ve got an orchard, and you’ve got a garden, and you’re just
doing great. And when it’s time to go shopping, then you get on
your bicycle or your little electric cart and you go down to the
little station and you hop a high-speed electric line -- zoom! --
that would take you to a shopping centre area, like a huge mall.
And you go through there and you do your shopping, okay, and
then you zoom back home and get on your bicycle, pedal back to
your little place.
And you have your own little energy collector generator, alright?
You’re self-sufficient energy-wise. And you say: Yeah, but what
do I do for work? Well it would be whatever you wanted to do.
We’re in an awkward situation now because we’ve all been
brought up on this Christian work ethic that says everybody’s got
to work. Okay? Well that’s a product of older times when truly
everybody had to work just to survive. In fact, that’s why you had
to have lots of kids, because you had to have somebody work the
fields, so you could produce produce, so you’d have food to eat.
But today with technology, you know, just a few mega-farms can
raise enough food for everybody. The technology’s there. We
could all be living like kings if we demanded it, and if we wanted
it, and if we could convince these would-be rulers of the world
that we all deserve to have a fair shake at life.
KC: Absolutely.
BR: I have a nice little anecdote that you might be able to use in
some of your lectures. In the Marquesas Islands in the South
Pacific -- it’s a French colony which no one’s ever heard of. In
their language, they have no word for work. And it’s a really
wonderful concept...
JM: Right.
59
BR: ...because, of course, we think the way we talk, it’s not the
other way round. And so, they don’t work. They catch a fish, they
build a house and they light a fire, then they cook a meal and they
dance and they do this, and they just live. And this whole
work/play dialectic has actually been so deeply ingrained into us
in this Western society...
JM: Right...
BR: ...that we’re victims of this idea; that we’re prisoners...
JM: Right.
BR: ... because we’ve got to work all the time, and then we’ve
got to play, and then they’ve got us by the throat...
JM: That’s right.
BR ...because we all try to get out of this loop.
JM: And if you have a son or daughter and all they want to do is
play the guitar and write music, then they must be some kind of
bum -- [Kerry laughs] -- because they’re not working!
KC: Right.
JM: Now, there was a great story, there was a great story about
the retired American businessman who goes down to Mexico,
and he rents a little fishing boat and he goes out fishing. And he
gets to talking with Manuel, the guy that owns the boat, and he
says: Manuel, you know, he says: what’s your life like? What do
you do?
He says: Oh, I get up in the morning, and he says: and I come out
and do some fishing, then I go home and take a siesta in the
afternoon with my wife, and at night I go into town and sit with
my friends and eat and drink and play the guitar and we sing.
He says: Well, Manuel, he said: Don’t you understand, if you
don’t take a siesta, if you’d fish more during the day you’d make
more money and with that more money you could buy another
boat. And with two boats then, you know, you’d get more fish and
pretty soon you could buy more boats. And the next thing you
know you’ll have a fleet of boats. And then what you do, is you
come to the United States and then you can incorporate, and then
you can sell stock, and then you can have a whole fleet of boats
and you can make, you know... and pretty soon you could become
a millionaire.
And he says: how long would that take? He says: Ah, twenty,
thirty years.
He said: And then what’d I do? He says: Well, then you could
retire and come to Mexico, and fish in the morning and take a
siesta in the afternoon, and visit your friends at night...
And it’s like: Oh, wait a minute! [laughs]
KC: [laughs]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JM: He’s already doing that...
KC: Yeah... I see.
JM: So, it’s all in the mind. It’s all in the consciousness and how
we perceive things and whether or not you think you have to be
in the rat race, and whether or not you think you have to have
more toys than everybody else so you can prove that you’re a
success. The most successful people I know are not necessarily
the richest people I know.
KC: Oh, yeah, definitely! Well, I mean, that’s a very good point.
Also, the idea is, behind free energy, if you want to call it that,
that the energy sources could make that possible for everyone.
JM: Well, we’ve had this for a long, long, long time. Nikola
Tesla was trying to tell us how we could tap the basic energy of
the earth and everyone could just have their own energy. Of
course, he got shut down by Edison and by the people who
wanted to put in the electrical systems and make sure that you
buy energy. And today, see, they’ve got a lock on it because, you
know, you could be Bill Gates, you could be the richest guy in
the whole world, but he still pays an electric bill each month.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: It all comes back to perception and consciousness. Years
ago, I got really big on solar energy, you know, and I said: Well,
you know, gee, either the sun shines or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t,
we’re all out of luck, and if it’s shining, then why don’t we
capture the sun’s radiant energy and use that for energy.
So I was talking with an energy expert and he very patiently and
condescendingly explained to me that: Well, you don’t
understand. He said: It would take solar panels covering an area
the size of the state of Arizona to provide enough power to power
the city of Los Angeles.
And I thought: Oh, okay. And I checked him out, and that’s
probably true. Where’s the flaw in his thinking? Central
generation. He can only think in terms of central generation...
KC: Sure...
JM: ...generating that juice and piping it to L.A. What if
everybody in L.A. put a solar panel on their roof?
KC: And sun is so plentiful there that, you know...
JM: There you go!
KC: ...they could gather enough energy...
JM: That’s right.
KC: ...in a matter of days, really.
JM: Exactly. And why don’t they do that? Because, the electric
company...
60
KC: No one would make money.
JM: The electric company hasn’t figured out how to make a
cloud come hang over your house if you don’t pay your electric
bill[Kerry laughs]Okay? So, it’s all about power and control, it’s
not about technology.
KC: So, yeah, absolutely, and this is the paradigm that humans
are operating under at the moment.
JM: Right.
KC: So, where is the United States headed in your estimation?
Because in some places right now we have Native American
tribes that are trying to secede from the Union, in essence, create
their own currency...
JM: We got 21 states now that have sovereignty bills pending;
they’re trying to cut loose. It’s going to get real interesting.
Basically, they have to destroy the United States, okay? And
what they’re trying to do is wreck the economy, panic the people,
and get everybody to accept the North American Union. And to
do this...
The way they’ll do this is by saying the only way out of this
economic mess is to combine the economies of Mexico, Canada,
and the United States. And, of course, we’ve all heard talk of the
Amero, which I have conflicting information, and of course you
see pictures on the internet, and they say: Oh, here it is, and it’s
here now, and yet, that’s apparently not the case. That’s just some
coins people have struck as kind of a gimmick or a trinket. But I
also have heard from people that I feel like know what they’re
talking about, that the Amero money is already printed and
waiting; awaiting distribution.
This is very reminiscent of some years ago. I heard... there was
internet rumors running around about this Red Money. Money
that was going to be pinkish in color and have red ink and dyes in
it, you know, like that. And the government denied that, and they
said: No, that’s not right, that’s not true. And yet, now it is, you
know, we do have this, the new money and it is reddish and
pinkish and all like that. So, you know...
KC: But states are not going to fall for this, it doesn’t sound like.
And even...
JM: They are balking. They're balking and they’re bucking in the
traces, and that’s good. The thing is, this is the salvation, okay?
We are not going to change the federal structure of the United
States; it’s too entrenched, it’s too bureaucratic, too many people
are feeding at the trough, and they’re not just going to voluntarily
get up and go away.
KC: Right.
JM: And obviously, even by voting you’re not going to get
anything changed much. In 2004, they voted in a democratic
Congress trying to curb the excesses of the Bush administration,
and what changed? Nothing! We’re still in Iraq fighting, we’re
still in Afghanistan fighting...
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KC: Right, and we’re bailing people out -- or companies out, not
people...
JM: Exactly.
KC: ...to much greater sums than ever thought of.
JM: And, the Bush administration, which was hailed as the
epitome of good conservatism, is the one that nationalized the
banking business, you know. [laughs] Socialism, right down the
line.
KC: Well, isn’t the bottom line that the two party system was
just a fallacy anyway, because...
JM: It’s pretty much always been a joke...
KC: ...it’s always...
JM: ... but it’s definitely a joke now. Particularly, I guess it’s
summed up in the election of 2006. You could vote for Democrat
John Kerry, who was from an oil family and a member of the
secretive Skull and Bones Society; or you could vote for his
cousin George W. Bush, from an oil family and a member of the
Skull and Bones Society. There’s no choice.
KC: Yeah.
JM: There’s no difference, and anybody who still pays attention
to Democrat and Republican, they’re just getting snookered.
KC: Okay, so to get back to this situation. So you have... you’ve
got these families that are running everything. You’ve got an
agenda to take down the United States, but the United States is
not going to go. I mean, you know, people are... they’re actually
incredible citizens; they actually want to save the country...
JM: Right.
KC: They’re patriots, if you will...
JM: Right.
KC: So...
JM: The problem is they’re all divided, okay?
KC: Okay.
JM: And like, I’ve traveled around the country, and I’ve found
pockets of people everywhere who understand what’s going on,
who care about what’s going on, who want to do something about
it. But they all feel like, that they’re in the minority and that
they’re all alone because these people control the mass media.
KC: Mm hm.
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JM: And this is why, by the way, that you’ve... When is the last
time you heard a national politician refer to the Republic? They
don’t even talk about the Republic anymore...
KC: No.
JM: ... because we’re not a republic anymore; we’re just the
Empire. And all they talk about is democracy, democracy. We
have to protect democracy; we got to spread democracy. Well
what’s democracy? It’s ruled by the majority; so, in other words,
the epitome of democracy in action is a lynch mob.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: Well, that’s not what we were given. We were not given a
democracy; we don’t want a pure democracy. We want a
democratic republic; and what’s the difference? Because in the
democratic republic, if you’re charged with a capital crime then
you have to... you get to face your accusers, you get to have legal
representation, you get to go into a court/legal system, and you
get to cross-examine the evidence against you; you get to have a
fair trial. And then if you’re found guilty and you have a chance
for an appeal, and it’s turned down, then they can lynch you.
KC: [laughs]
JM: Okay?
KC: Right...
JM: That’s the way it’s supposed to work. But we are no longer
a rule of... a nation ruled by law.
KC: Right. The corporations basically rule...
JM: Corporations tell us what to do. And again, it’s that
takeover-of-the-state mechanism by corporations; it’s the very
dictionary definition of fascism.
KC: So let’s get back into what happened during the time of
Paperclip, and during the time of the Atomic Bomb, and maybe
you could talk a little bit about what really went on back then
because I think a lot of people need to get their history, you
know, straightened out in their heads.
JM: They really do, because in our conventional history, it’s
like: Well, there was the Russian Revolution, and then out of that
grew Communism, and then they... we had a Cold War with them
versus Capitalism and yadda-yadda-yadda...
The truth of the matter is, is that the very same people in Wall
Street and the city of London -- these Internationalists, these
global financiers -- they created Communism in Russia. When
the Russian Revolution broke out Lenin was in Switzerland.
Trotsky was in New York living on Rockefeller property, okay?
They sent them into Russia to capture the Revolution for the
Bolsheviks and turn Russia into a communist state, which they
did. And the idea was, I think, to build up a communist East
versus a capitalist West, and they were going to perpetuate the
Cold War many years before we actually saw it actually come
into being.
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But the problem was, it threatened to get out of hand. There were
strong Communist parties in France, England, Italy, Germany --
even the United States. And so they... we talk about this One
World Government, but they really don’t want a true One World
Government, because then they can’t play one nation off against
another, or one economic block off against another. So this made
them fearful, and they decided they had to stop the spread of
Communism.
The one country that was in a position geographically and
economically to act as a block against the spread of Communism
was Germany. So they went in and found a German army
intelligence agent, and they put him in charge of a little political
party called the German Worker’s Party which he quickly
changed the name to the National Socialist German Worker’s
Party (NSDAP) -- the acronym of which is NAZI -- and, of
course, that was Adolf Hitler. And Hitler provided this block
against the spread of Communism. Then they perpetrated this
whole idea of the Nazis were bitter enemies of the Communists,
okay?
KC: And meanwhile, they’re being financed by Bush...
JM: And run by the same people...
KC: ...Prescott Bush, behind the scenes...
JM: Exactly, yeah, and the Rockefellers...
KC: ...and I -- what is it -- Farben?
JM: IG Farben.
KC: IG Farben.
JM: And the head of IG Farben was Hermann Schmitz, and
Hermann Schmitz owned as much Standard Oil stock as John D.
Rockefeller did. It was all the same International globalists, if
you will. Now the problem was, is that Hitler got too strong and
the Germans were a little too efficient, and they over-ran Europe.
They were moving into North Africa, they were pushing into
Russia, taking over Norway, and were threatening Britain.
Now all of a sudden it looked like they were going to have a One
World National Socialist system. And oh, they didn’t want that
either! But mostly they didn’t want Germany in charge of the
world economic order because this had been the purview of the
city of London -- those bankers with the Bank of England -- and
their Wall Street compadres, okay?
So, at some point, even though they had created Hitler, put him
into power, financed his rise; they turned against him, and that’s
when we had World War II. They managed to stop Germany,
push it back. And yes, we defeated Germany in World War II,
but we didn’t defeat the Nazis. The Nazis were still much in
power, and they cut deals. They swapped their exotic technology,
their rocket technology, their energy manipulation technology,
their mind control technology, chemical technology and
pharmaceutical technology to the United States in exchange for
immunity.
62
We brought them in over the war and in the late ‘40s and early
‘50s, John J. McCloy -- who had been head of National City
Bank which was one of the largest lenders of money to pre-
World War II Nazi Germany -- was made High Commissioner of
Germany. He pardoned thousands of unreconstructed Nazis;
brought them over to the United States.
His protégé was Allen Dulles, who then was head of the CIA for
many years. And under Dulles, he whitewashed their
backgrounds, and put them all -- these Nazis -- into our military
industrial complex. And that began the National Socialist
infiltration of the United States system.
KC: Wow, that’s an excellent summation of really what
happened behind the scenes. And this is what most people don’t
know...
JM: No, you’re never taught this in school.
KC: ...about American history...
JM: Right...
KC: ...and even the history of the world. So you also could talk
about what the Nazis had by virtue of their occult investigations,
and possibly even channeling, and how they got what is, in
essence, free energy -- maybe even star gate technology, certainly
UFOs.
JM: Exotic technology.
KC: Yeah.
JM: Yeah, and the question’s always been: How did the Nazis
get so far ahead of us in science?
KC: Exactly.
JM: They were broadcasting the 1936 Berlin Olympics over
television. In fact, by the end of the war, they had television-
guided missiles. Holy cow! We didn’t know that... and there’s
good reason to believe they actually possessed and had tested a
nuclear weapon. But by the time... they did not have a reliable
delivery system, and by the time they were ready to maybe
unleash a nuclear weapon, it was spring of 1945 and the Russians
were closing in from the east and Allies from the west, and it was
almost all over. And if they had set off an atomic bomb
somewhere it would not have ended the war, it would’ve simply
meant the total devastation and destruction of Germany.
Now, where did they get all this? For years I’d heard stories that:
Well, they captured a flying saucer somewhere and they back-
engineered it. But yet, every time you try to track those stories, it
never went anywhere. And I am now of the opinion, based on
information that I have now, and based on documentation that
has come out of the old Soviet Union now with the collapse of
Communism, that the Germans had their own remote viewers.
BR: Mm hm.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JM: Of course, they didn’t call it remote viewing, because that
was a term that was coined back when the CIA and the National
Security Agency in this country was studying and working with
psychic warfare. But they had the same type thing. Back then the
Germans had been very much involved in the occult, if you want
to call it that, all the way back in... prior to the 1920s. And they
would have séances, and they would have all of these
channelings, or whatever you want to call it, but at the bottom
line of it is what we call remote viewing. It was the use of these
psychic abilities.
BR: This was the Vril Society, wasn’t it?
JM: The Vril Society. And this was largely based on the
philosophies of Madame Blatavsky and her Theosophical
Society. They were heavy into that. And, of course, Hitler was
put into power with the help of the Thule-Gesellschaft, or the
Thule Society, which was an occult society made up of some of
the wealthiest aristocrats there in Germany, and industrialists.
They were big into this stuff, into spiritualism, I think, is what
they called it back then.
Why the rush? Well, because they had to get control over all of
this information. What the National Security Act of 1947 did was
create the CIA and also change the name of the Defense Depart...
War Department to the Defense Department; a little public
relations move.
But also in there -- and what has been little noticed -- was the
creation of the National Security Council. Well, by very
definition, that’s in charge of anything that has to do with
national security. UFOs? National security. Nazi infiltration?
National security. High technology? National security.
And, since the National Security Council -- and we hear this all
the time, almost any time that we’ve gone to fight some brushfire
war and the Iran-Contra scandal, on and on -- it’s always the
National Security Council is involved. And yet, I’ll bet you
virtually no one listening knows who is the National Security
Council. Well I’ll tell you. It’s four people: it’s the President, the
Vice President, the Secretaries of State and Defense. Three of
those are appointed by the President.

And so they... according to the information I have there was even

a unit within the German military called Doctor Greenbaum, and
this was basically their remote viewers. And, interestingly
enough, this was under a broader umbrella program called Majik
[he spells] M-A-J-I-K.

And that’s really interesting because, as you well know, the

Majestic 12 -- or Majik 12 -- that’s always talked about in the
UFO literature being the people at the top who are in charge of
the secrecy over UFO technology was M-A-J-I-C 12 to begin
with; which is the anglicized version of M-A-J-I-K -- the German
version. And I’m wondering if perhaps, when we brought their
mind control experts and their pharmaceutical experts and their
rocket scientists all over here after the war, if we didn’t bring
some of their psychic scientists, too. KC: Mm hm.

KC: Okay, that makes sense. Well, what about Vannover Bush?
He was head of Majestic 12 that was set up by the Truman...
supposedly set up by the Truman administration, right?
JM: Mm hm. It was.
KC: To handle the problem of UFOs and what it meant to
America, but...
JM: Right.
KC: ...that’s a very interesting trail to follow if they already were
in operation in Germany.
JM: Right, exactly. And you have to understand that that really
was the genesis of the modern National Security state -- the
National Security Act of 1947, which began to be put together
just a few days after something fell from the skies at Roswell,
New Mexico in July of 1947. And, by August, they're cobbling
together quickly this National Security Act, and in September
they actually held President Truman -- delayed him on the tarmac
there at National Airport when he was trying to get home to visit
his dying mother -- so they could rush on board and get him to
sign this National Security Act of 1947.
63
JM: So by signing the National Security Act of 1947 into law,
we basically set up a dictatorship, because the President is now in
charge of everything that has to do with national security, and
this bypasses Congress and the news media and the public. This
is when we began to move into a National Security state which,
at the heart of which, lay these Nazis -- unreconstructed Nazis.
KC: So, to get back to Germany, you have them discovering free
energy somehow. I mean certainly they had really amazing
scientists...
JM: Right.
KC: Okay. And they were looking into other dimensions using
psychics, using remote viewing, using possible channeling. And
what you’re saying is they may have been also getting technology
out of those dimensions; information that they needed to build
things.
JM: Right.
KC: Right?
JM: Mm hm.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: And there is a connection to Egypt, right? And to the
Sumerians... to Sumerians’ cylinder seals...
JM: A lot of this is -- all of this -- is part of...
KC: A lot of the technology's back there.
JM: ...the Earth’s history.
KC: Right.
JM: And it all fits together. For example: for the longest time
everybody thought that Egypt was the world’s first, greatest
civilization. Well, you know, that’s because it wasn’t until the
mid-1800s that they began to discover these strange mounds over
in Mesopotamia -- which is now modern-day Iraq -- and they
began to excavate and find that there's huge cities under there.
And they began to discover the Sumerian civilization which
predates the Egyptians by at least five thousand years. So what
we’re actually finding out today is, is that apparently there was,
in antediluvian times, a worldwide, highly technological
civilization that probably covered the entire world. This is why
they found pyramids in Central America, South America, China,
Eastern Europe, the Giza Plateau...
And yet, something happened. There was either Earth changes, or
there was a war or something, and this whole civilization
crumbled. And what we know is our written history: the
Sumerians, and then the Babylonians, and then the Assyrians, and
then the Phoenicians, and then the Egyptians and...
These were all degradations of the same civilization. And the
proof of that, for example, is in the history of Egypt. The earliest
dynasties were the most advanced dynasties, and then it
devolved, [laughs] it degraded. And went all the way down until
we ended up in the Middle -- in the Dark Ages, and then we’ve
been slowly pulling ourselves out ever since. And this is why that
the people in the know -- and knowledge is power, and they want
to keep the knowledge, and they don’t want us to know what’s
going on -- but this is why they are rushing around the whole
world just like Indiana Jones chasing the Nazis, who were
chasing the historic and religious...
KC: The icons and...
JM: ...icons, yeah, and artifacts...
KC: ...yeah, absolutely.
JM: ...you know, because they’re trying to get to this ancient
technology.
KC: Okay, so, you just spent some time in Egypt, didn’t you?
JM: Yes.
KC: And did you find anything when you were there -- [Jim
laughs] -- that blew your mind, or...
64
JM: Yes. Under the Temple of Seti -- which is an immense
temple and just filled with hieroglyphics -- underneath that, is a
huge temple called the Osireion. And it is huge megalithic blocks
that probably weigh ten and twelve tons each. No hieroglyphics
on these, but they’re stacked up very similar to Stonehenge.
But they are not rough rock like Stonehenge, these are perfectly,
finely cut pieces that butt up against each other so perfectly you
can’t even put a piece of paper in there. And this is under the
Temple of Seti, which means there was something going on over
there long before the Egyptians came along.
KC: Are they releasing this into the public domain?
JM: No. In fact, we weren’t even supposed to be able to go down
there [laughs], but we managed to kind of slip down there and see
what was going on. This is the stuff they keep hidden. The same
thing is that -- on the Sphinx -- it is just obvious that there is deep
water erosion grooves on the sides of the Sphinx and on the sides
of the ground surrounding it, which means that this is vertical
water erosion. the Sphinx and the area around it had sat out under
heavy rains.
KC: You actually got into this place, which is under the Temple
of Seti, you’re saying, which is built like Stonehenge, has
polished stones...
JM: Right. No hieroglyphics, it obviously predates the Seti
Temple, and so this, again, more proof that there was something
going on of a highly technological nature long before the
Egyptians came along.
KC: So, do they know, are they dating it at all? Has anybody...
did anybody give you an indication when, what it was dated?
JM: No. There is a huge resistance to all of this, and I couldn’t
quite understand the resistance until I visited in Egypt and
realized that they’re totally dependent upon the tourist dollar and
upon the whole idea of the Pharaohs and Cleopatra and Nefertiti
and da-da-da-da-da-da-da... and they just really can’t afford to
back off of that.
They don’t want to admit that there was anything going on other
than the conventional history. And, of course, everyone else
who’s an Egyptologist or whatever -- they’ve got an entire
lifetime, they’ve got books written, they’ve got a whole career
based on their theories and their interpretation of what the
Egyptians were doing. And to say that that really wasn’t quite the
truth of it, then that just throws it all into a cocked hat, and
they’re totally opposed to that.
However, the geologists who go and look at this very obvious
water erosion on the Sphinx will tell you that that’s obviously
water erosion, and historically, there’s not been any heavy rains
on the Giza Plateau for 10,500 years. Which means the Sphinx,
and probably the Great Pyramid, predate the Egyptians by at least
5,000 years. And five thousand years, you know, it’s hard for us
to think of five thousand years.
KC: [laughs]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JM: Most people today think about the war between the states,
you know, that just sounds like ancient history. And yet, my
grandmother told me about when her father came back from the
war. So it really hasn’t been that far back. And yet to us it’s
ancient history, and that was, what, only about a hundred and
fifty years ago. So to talk about five thousand years; my God, we
just... we have a hard time even contemplating that.
But there’s no question that it points out to alternative origins for
the human race and the human species. And again, how can we
figure out what’s going on today if we don’t know where we
came from, or the truth of our beginnings? And, what I was going
to tell you is -- this is really fascinating -- is that they are bricking
up the sides of the Sphinx. Ostensibly because they said: Well,
it’s deteriorating and we don’t want it to be destroyed, so we’re
going to brace it up, and we’re going to fix it up...
KC: Oh, wow!
JM: ...and preserve it, you know. But what they’re doing is
they’re covering up these very...
KC: The signs of erosion...
JM: ...the very obvious signs of vertical water erosion which
means it predates the Egyptians.
KC: Well, what about the fact that there’s also supposed to be a
library inside the Sphinx?
JM: There’s another thing. You know, Edgar Cayce -- back in
the ‘30s, the great Seer -- he says: Well, there’s a room under the
left paw of the Sphinx. The Army remote viewers, by the way,
took a look at that and they said: Yeah, there’s a room in there;
and I said: What’s in it? And they said: Jars, and vases, with
scrolls, and tablets... you know. And I’m going: Whoa! Holy
Cow! The Hall of Records. We can really find out what’s going
on. You know?
KC: Absolutely.
JM: And then they used ground-penetrating radar and they say:
Yeah, we find a cavity there, under the left paw of the Sphinx. So
I’m going: Okay, great! Let’s dig down there and find out what it
is!
To this very day, as far as I know, nobody’s done this; they won’t
allow this. They will not allow us to get to the truth...
KC: Yes.
JM: ...of the origins of humankind.
KC: Exactly.
BR: Zahi Hawass, don’t you believe, does know what’s going on
here? And he’s smart enough to take account of all these... this
alternative research and remote viewing, and to try and get that
information for himself. Do you think there’s something going on
there behind the background?
65
JM: I personally suspect that somebody has already gotten in
there. I just can’t believe that everybody knows it’s there and
nobody'll go look to see what it is. But you have to understand
that the Egyptian authorities... who pays their salaries?
KC: Yeah, absolutely...
JM: And who do they owe allegiance to? Who has trained them?
You know, again, we’re back to the Evil Empire. [laughs]
KC: What about the Coral... You know the Coral Palace, or
whatever they call it, down by Florida, where he proved that
moving those stones was done by a whole different means than
what they talked about with...
JM: Right.
KC: ...slave labor in Egypt and all of that.
JM: Right.
KC: They have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth of
slave labor in Egypt, but in reality, that’s not what happened.
JM: Well you know, Kerry, that’s something that got me onto
this, a long time ago before I seriously studied ancient technology
and ancient civilizations, was simply the fact that we are told that
the pyramids were built by the slaves of the Egyptians who
dragged these stones through the desert, you know, without any
[laughs] real modern wheels or anything else, and somehow built
these huge edifices. Well, who were the slaves of the Egyptians?
The Hebrews.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: Okay? And who is one of the most well documented peoples
in the world? The Hebrews. They had oral traditions going down
for thousands of years and then finally wrote it into the books of
the Old Testament of the Bible. There it all is. And I defy you to
go in there and find me one verse that says: Oh, by the way,
Uncle Herbie spent his whole life dragging stones through the
desert, you know, to build those pyramids.
It didn’t happen! It didn’t happen. There’s something else going
on. And why don’t they want us to know about that? Well, over
and above the fact that Egypt is totally dependent on the tourist
dollar, based on the Egyptian mythos is the fact that this would
tell us, possibly, of our extra-terrestrial origins. And, more
importantly, it would point us in the way of alternative
technology and energy sources...
KC: Absolutely...
JM: ...and this is...
KC: ... we’re talking about sound technology...
JM: Right.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: ...we’re talking about, I don’t know, scalar waves, we’re
talking about mind over matter...
JM: Right, exactly.
KC: Which is... this is all stuff in the Black Projects.
JM: Yeah. Sonic frequencies, who knows. Have you seen the
hieroglyphs of the figure standing there holding the big tubes?
KC: Mm hm.
JM: Okay, and there’s a cord that runs out and behind it and goes
to the little power thing, you know -- they call it the Jedi, the
tower -- I call it the oscillator, okay? When I saw those, and if
you go up and look real close, unlike the rest of the caricatures on
the hieroglyphics of figures where they just have the outline of
the person cut into the stone, this has a double outline to it.
KC: Hm.
JM: And we were remarking on that and wondering what does
that mean, and I’m thinking -- being a cartoonist, among other
things -- is that when you want to show movement, you draw
extra lines. You know, if you draw a hand, and you’ve got some
lines here, it’s like the hand’s moving. So, by drawing a double
outline, they’re showing that they’re going aye-aye-aye [makes
sounds and shakes as if electrocuted].
KC: Ah! [laughs] Okay.
JM: [laughs] They’re actually using this equipment!
KC: Right.
JM: See? It’s very carefully... it’s just a second outline, okay?
It’s not like they tried to do something else. But there’s a lot of
interesting things over there. Some of the temples have been
defaced by Knights Templar; Maltese crosses carved in over the
hieroglyphics.
KC: Mm hm.
JM: And of course, see, we’re talking about stuff that’s handed
down for thousands of years, and it’s been debased and defaced
and vandalized by everybody and anybody. So we’re just
scratching around in these ruins and trying to piece together what
actually happened.
I guess the corollary would be, you know, five thousand years
from now they’ll find a Coke bottle buried in the dirt somewhere
and there are going to be whole scientific papers written about: I
wonder what this was about. Obviously, since it’s in the female
form, it must be some kind of fertility goddess icon that they
worshipped. You know, this is... we’re just making this stuff up,
because we don’t know.
KC: Yeah, absolutely. So, where do we go from here? I mean,
you covered the gamut and this is an amazing overview of an
interview that you’ve given us. And I don’t even... I mean, you
clearly show us how you can go from Egypt, to the Nazis, to the
66
American government; and you can draw a through-line from one
to the other.
JM: Yeah.
KC: It’s an amazing thing. So what is your solution at this point?
Because I see that you can actually foresee that we could change
the world...
JM: Sure.
KC: ...into such a place...
JM: Sure.
KC: ...where we could have access to free energy, access to
living -- keeping all the people alive on the planet and having
them fed, clothed, housed. We’re not doing it, but this is...
JM: Why not?
KC: ...a big step in the right direction.
JM: Why not? Why aren’t we doing it?
KC: That’s...
JM: You know why? Because we sit back and we let criminals
and Nazis [laughs] gain control over the corporations and over
the government that’s supposed to be looking out for us and
taking care of us. And, hey! There’s more of us than there are of
them. Just say: No.
KC: I think there’s...
JM: Throw the bums out.
KC: ...also the myth of freedom, because if people start to realize
-- and I think, certainly, they are realizing, and this is the danger
of this economic downturn that’s hitting America -- is that
Americans are going to realize they’re not so free, okay? That
they’ve been programmed by the media, by this, by that, and
they’re also curtailed by their government. And probably these,
these limitations are coming down even harder and faster. So if
you realize you’re not free, that’s the beginning of waking up.
JM: That’s right. And if you think you’re free, just ask yourself:
can you just pick up and move? Can you just pick up and go
move to another state, or move to another country? And chances
are, you’re going to go: Oh, no. I can’t do that.
Why? Because: Well, I’d lose my job, and I couldn’t make my
payments, and I couldn’t make my mortgage, and I couldn’t pay
my rent, and I... You’re not free! You’re not free. You don’t even
have any idea what freedom is. So we’ve got to get back to the
idea of freedom. And this economic turn-down or even collapse
may end up being a really good thing.
KC: Absolutely.
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JM: Because I know a lot of people who, you know, they’ve
been taught to keep their nose to the grindstone and be loyal to
their company and work and put in a good long... good hours of
work for your boss and then you’ll be taken care of, and now
they’re finding out that: No, no it doesn’t work that way. You
know, you’ll work your tail off until you’re sixty-four, and then a
year before your retirement they’re going to let you go -- down-
size you -- so they don’t have to pay you that retirement. And this
is happening more and more often, and people are beginning to
realize this.
KC: And they’re doing away with your savings, and your Social
Security...
JM ...and your savings are going away...
KC: It’s all going to be gone...
JM: ...your 401 is pffft, you know, it’s down 40 percent or
more...
KC: ...and retirement’s no good for anybody, anyway...
JM: No, there’s no retirement. There’s no money in Social
Security, and everybody says: Yeah, well I’ve got these insurance
policies... Yeah, big deal. What if the insurance company goes
broke? What have you got? You got a piece of paper, that’s all
you got.
So, number one, start acquiring tangible assets. Get a little
property you own yourself; get something you can grow tomatoes
on. Get a home, get a building, get something you can actually
have some tangible assets. Then start working doing things that
you enjoy doing.
This is so cool. I know so many people who for years worked for
the company, worked for the company, and then the company
just cut them loose. And they found out what good that does and
what loyalty does for you.
So then, in desperation, they run around and they try to find
another corporate job, and that gets tough -- and particularly the
older you get the tougher it gets. So then, all of a sudden they
finally have to, out of desperation, they start thinking for
themselves, and they go: Well, you know, what do I like to do?
Well, I like to grow flowers.
So, the next thing they know they’re growing flowers, and
they’re cutting flowers and they’ve started their own little flower
delivery business. And the first thing you know they’re doing
pretty good. And they’re making a living, and they’re getting
along. They’re not getting rich, but they’re surviving; they’re
doing just fine. And they’re doing what they love to do. And
that...
KC: That’s a real key.
JM: ...that’s a real key thing...
KC: Yeah, absolutely.
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JM: ...and really, really important. And then, as times get tough,
if we just all start networking and working together as a
community, you know. You grow some chickens and...
KC: Bartering.
JM: ...and I’ll swap you my tomatoes for your eggs, and we’ll all
just get along.
KC: That’s true.
JM: Years ago, I had kinfolks down in east Texas, and they were
just scraping out, living there in the dirt -- red dirt in east Texas --
and I remember asking them when I was a kid, I said: How’d you
guys get along during the Depression?
They just laughed. They said: Hey, what Depression? They says:
We didn’t have anything to begin with [laughter], we didn’t have
anything during the Depression. We just kept doing what we were
doing, and we got on through!
And, we’re all going to get on through. We’re all going to do,
actually, we’re all going to do good. In fact, we might even end
up doing a lot better because we’re not going to be, you know...
But here’s the key thing -- step one -- turn off the TV.
KC: [laughs]
JM: Just turn the sucker off. And you know what, after a couple
weeks you’re going to find out two things. You’re going to find
out, number one, you hadn’t missed anything. If World War
Three starts, believe me, you’re going to know it, okay? So
you’re not going to be out of the loop, all you’re going to be
missing is all that celebrity news and the latest shooting
somewhere, and, you know, who cares?
And number two, you’re going to find that, all of a sudden you
got some time on your hands, and you’re going to start reading.
And as you start reading, it’s going to stimulate your brain
processes because it’s not a passive thing. You have to actually
read and think about the words, and then think about the
concepts. You’re going to start thinking, and you’re going to
start: Wow! You’re going to start thinking about things, and
you’re going to get a better appreciation of what’s really going
on, and what, maybe, you could do about it.
KC: All right. Thank you very much, Jim Marrs...
JM: Thank you.
KC: ...that’s really fabulous.
-- End of interview --
But conversation continues…
BR: That’s a good one, Jim.
JM: All right.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Thank you. JM: [laughs] You go down there...

KC: Guess who’s down there?

JM: You’re going to really...

KC: The Bush family in Paraguay, right?

JM: Exactly. With... how many acres they get? Something like...

KC: I don’t know.

JM: I keep hearing various things. I thought it was nine thousand

acres, and then I heard it was ninety-eight thousand acres, so...

BR: Thank you, sir. KC: And you have to look at that and say: Well, there has to be a
plan there, as well.
KC: That’s great. That was a marathon.
JM: Yeah, exactly.
JM: Well, it was, but it’s always great to actually get in and talk
about the real stuff, you know. KC: They were planning that the whole time.

KC: Yeah. Well, I’m real happy you did that. Thank you very JM: Well, they’re ready to bail out of the United States.
much for going into all those places for us because, you know,
you kind of went off the record a little there, and just...
KC: Exactly.

JM: Well, I’ll tell you... but you know, it’s funny it’s... [laughs]
JM: See, this is the thing; they got a movie they’re going to show
When you said: You draw ancient Egypt and the Nazis and
here, which is really interesting. It’s got a really fascinating
American, it’s like ...
theme to it, which is that this whole thing building up to
Armageddon, and that the economy’s collapsing, and the
KC: It’s an amazing thing. environment’s collapsing, and da-de-da-de-da... This is all a
scam -- not to the public -- but to the New World Order people.
JM: It is. And the thing is, though, it really is, because like, if
you saw my presentation, I pointed out how the Treasure of KC: [laughs]
Solomon which came out of Egypt, and then it’s buried in
Jerusalem, and then it’s... half of it’s taken to Rome... [laughs]
JM: And they really think that it’s all about to come down, so
and then from Rome it goes to the...
they all had been secretly working on...

KC: And then it makes the Nazis possible, right?

KC: Jumping ship. [laughs]

JM: Yeah! And then the Nazis end up getting it...

JM: They’re jumping ship. So they all leave the planet
[applauds] and we’re here [laughs] we can go on...
KC: And then it comes to America, right, on those...
KC: We’re all good!
JM: Yeah.
JM: We’re good, we’ll have a nice life. [laughs] Isn’t that an
KC: ...on the U-Boat, or whatever. interesting concept!

JM: Yeah. KC: Well, I know with the Bushes in South America, we’re
going to be in good shape anyway, you know what I’m saying?
KC: And then Argentina. And now, supposedly, all these people Let them go to Paraguay, you know?
are going... their whole solution is: go down to South America
and get away from America, right? JM: Yeah, they’re all going to end up in hell, anyways, so what
the hell.
JM: [laughs]
KC: Sure. Absolutely, yeah... it’s crazy, what they did in
KC: But... Hello? [laughs] Argentina, I mean it’s just... That’s an amazing, amazing story as
well, so...

68
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JM: It is. KC: Okay, take care.

KC: I mean, there is no stone unturned. Antarctica, right? JM: Hey, just be kind...

JM: Right. KC: Yeah.

KC: They’re there. So... JM: Don’t make me look like a bigger idiot than I am!

JM: It’s a whole amazing thing... KC: No, you’re fabulous.

KC: It‘s so crazy. Okay, well... BR: We’ll do well. Don’t worry. We’ll do well for you, Jim.

JM: Well, thanks for the coffee... JM: Okay.

KC: And thank you, Jim. This has just been great... BR: You can trust us, we promise.

JM: And I’m good... oh gosh, in fact I guess I’ve got to run KC: You’re absolutely fabulous. We can run it by you. Whatever
somewhere else now. you want to change, just let us know.

BR: Jim, it’s a pleasure. Thanks for giving us your time, your
energy...
JM: Bill. Thank you.
BR: ...your focus and your passion. That‘s all a man can give.
JM: All right, we’re in California Suite, or Arizona Suite?
JM: Okay.
End sequence
BR: ... and we say: Just Do Something.
JM: Do something! Do what you can do... Exactly! Maybe it’s
just writing letters to the editor, you know, but...

KC: We’re in Arizona right now... KC: Absolutely.

JM: We’re in Arizona. Okay. All right. Y’all take care. JM: Or getting out marching and carrying a sign. I don’t know,
it’s just whatever you can do, but by God, do something!
[laughs...

69
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Duncan O'Finioan -Telephone Interview Transcript
13 April 2009
God didn't make Rambo, I made him. I recruited him, I trained him, I
commanded him in Vietnam for three years.
I'd say that makes him mine.
Col. Sam Trautman, Rambo: First Blood, 1982
We had not talked with Duncan O'Finioan at length since our last
meeting with him - when we interviewed him with David Corso
in January 2007. In this 52 minute audio conversation he tells us
about what he has learned about his programmed alternate
personalities, how they operate, and what their agenda is; how he
is working, with professional support, with a substantial group of
people who have been through similar military programs (four
generations of them, sourced in a number of different countries
including Russia); and his visions of troubled times ahead in the
US.
Duncan, who has suffered greatly, is a great-hearted giant of a
man and it's our privilege to continue to support him to get his
message out. We're delighted that he will be speaking at our
coming conference in LA in June 2009. Do listen to this
interview.
Start of conversation:
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Good morning. This is Kerry Cassidy and
Bill Ryan from Project Camelot, and we're here with Duncan
O'Finioan. It's Monday, April 13th, 2009. Hello Duncan, and it's
lovely to talk to you.
Duncan O'Finioan (DO’F): It's great to be back with you guys.
KC: We're going to go into some of the things that you've been
experiencing lately and try to kind of “catch up” because it's been
quite a while since we've spoken. We're going to be talking about
some things that are going to be on record here, and then there
also will be some asides that will be off record.
DO’F: Sure. What's going on with myself and some others that
came out of some of these projects is not supposed to happen.
We've always known that I have one embedded alternate
personality which we now know has a name. And that name is
Omega Unit One-Nine-Seven. That's its designated name. We
just call him One-Nine-Seven.
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The alternate personalities were the torture-based integrated
personalities created by the government scientists, or the mil lab
scientists, that were used on various black operations. But what is
happening is, these alternate personalities are becoming self-
aware. Almost like a computer becoming self-aware.
You see, one personality was not supposed to be in touch with
the other personality. We were supposed to switch. The words,
symbols, signals, tones, sound, etcetera. But some of us are
starting to switch on a daily basis. I'm switching without realizing
it. It doesn't take the fight-or-flight syndrome to make me switch
anymore. Could be a glitch in the original programming. I
definitely believe it's something that was completely unforeseen
by the original programmers.
We have found four distinct personalities in me. You know, I
have the one that's talking now, I have One-Nine-Seven, I have a
little boy. And, what we've been able to ascertain is that the little
boy is who... the personality is who I was at the moment of the
split. So the little boy's just like lost in there. Then there's one that
we call the berserker, and that personality is damn near
animalistic.
Bill Ryan (BR): To use the words from The Hulk movie, that you
wouldn't want to make angry, right?
DO’F: Right. Right. That one manifested a couple of months
ago, and the only thing it wanted to know was: What were the
orders. And when no orders to be given, it went back to sleep.
BR: That's very interesting.
KC: But...
DO’F: Sounds like you're at the bottom of a deep, deep well.
Part of this is probably my hearing problem. I'm having a lot of
pain in my ears the past couple 'a days.
KC: Okay.
BR: I'm sorry to hear that, Duncan. I remember that you told us
that you were having this progressive problem when we first met
you a couple 'a years ago.
DO’F: Yeah. It's been progressively, month after month, just
getting worse.
KC: Oh God. OK.
BR: When you say: What we have found... who is “we”? Is this a
group of you who have been through the same program, who've
been comparing notes? Or is some professional who understands
this stuff in a position to help you, or to help you all? Can you
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
tell us a little bit about how it is that you've come to do this
research on yourself and your companions?
DO’F: To answer your first question -- Both. There is a small
group of us who came out of these other projects. One that I'm
working with now, I actually helped train. And we were on
various assignments together and share a lot of the absolute same
memories, and we each have separate memories that we're still
working on. We also have a professional psychologist, who is an
expert in multiple personality disorder, who has worked with
black operations people in the past.
He recognizes exactly what's going on and he has been a
tremendous help. So I have someone else that's a psychologist
that we're working with as well, who is a very close friend of the
one lady that I worked with. She's the one who connected us
together. It’s getting scary, guys. [laughs] It's like some of these
alternate personalities have their own agendas.
KC: Isn't it possible that this is a sign of health though, actually,
that these walls are breaking down and that you're starting to
become aware of... you know, exactly what's going on and that
maybe the personalities themselves might...? If you're saying
their becoming self aware, are they becoming aware of each
other?
DO’F: Yes. Exactly right. And it's almost like we're
communicating with each other. The only way to tell, now... At
one time, years ago, if I switched to One-Nine-Seven, it was
obvious. All right? Even when One-Nine-Seven spoke, it was
obvious. There was no accent, no nothing. But the eye color
would always change. Now, that is basically the only thing this
personality cannot hide -- is the changing of the eye color. He is
able to switch so completely and so covertly, unless you notice
the eye change, you can't tell.
BR: Is this understood, Duncan, how it is that the eye changes
color? 'Because that's like a micro-version of shape-shifting, isn't
it? It implies that there's a DNA structural change going on,
happening at a moment's notice, which is what some people say
is impossible. Do you understand this at all?
DO’F: I do. I do, but I have multiple witnesses who sit there and
say: My God, your eyes turned bright green. My eyes are not
green [laughs], but when I switch personalities, my eyes turn
green. Right now it's a fight of trying to keep the different
personalities under control, and to figure out exactly what it is
they want.
They obviously seem to have their own agendas. To what those
agendas are, we just don't know at this time. We don't know if
those agendas are good or bad. But we do know that they're not
under the control of mil labs. My honest guess -- and I'll say it for
the record they want revenge. They want payback.
KC: Is this something that the other people that you're with are
also experiencing in terms of this other... their other personalities
wanting revenge?
DO’F: Some are. Yes. Absolutely.
71
KC: Because I... I don't know if this can be on record and you
can tell me, 'cause I think you might know Daniel McB. I call
him Daniel McB. You know who I'm speaking of?
DO’F: Yes.
KC: Okay. Is he one of those people?
DO’F: Not that I'm aware of. Dan B and I have spoken many
times. We've met face to face a few times. I am not aware that
he... his alternate personality is manifesting at this time.
BR: I heard that there was to have been a radio program that was
going... have called you and you weren't available. They couldn't
get hold of you. But Dan came on instead, and he was described
on the internet as Dan Doe -- like John Doe, but Dan Doe -- and
that he told his story on the radio instead. And that was a
relatively short time ago, but I haven't listened to that yet. I've got
it marked for listening.
DO’F: Yeah, I remember that. That wasn't this last time I was in
the Islands, it was actually the time before. I've been traveling to
St Thomas very frequently here the past few months on business.
KC: You're not on St Thomas now, right?
DO’F: No. I'm in Kentucky now.
KC: Okay.
DO’F: Just like what you guys and I were trying to do, which's
to set up a phone call while I was down there and, for whatever
reason, that neither side could get a call through. They called
Dan, and Dan took the show for me that night. I have not listened
at all to the program. Ah... quite frankly, I never listen to myself
talk.
KC: Do you know why you're going to St Thomas? Because, in
our interview with you originally, and Corso, St Thomas was
where you were recognized. Originally you didn't know why you
were recognized there, but it was a fascinating incident -- a
number of incidents -- that went on there. It's certainly a military
enclave and I'm wondering if you know why it is you're going
there?
DO’F: I know exactly why. That reason is two-fold. We'll get the
simple one out of the way first. It's business. I have a more than
partial interest. I own full power of attorney over a section of
property down there on Smith Bay, that has rental houses on it,
that I'm in charge of. The main reason is the island of St Thomas
is One-Nine-Seven's home. That's where he was created. That's
where he's from.
KC: Where One-Nine-Seven was created?
DO’F: Correct. That's where the splitting process took place.
KC: I see. So One-Nine-Seven goes back there. Do you think
that there is a... maybe there's a scalar frequency being beamed at
you to bring out these personalities? Or perhaps programming
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
that's going on when you're in St Thomas? Do you have missing
time at all when you're there?
DO’F: No. Not missing time. As far as the scalar waves or
electronic emissions, I would agree with that. What a lot of
people don't know is [laughs] just to the west of St Thomas, of
course, is Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico has the largest underwater
submarine base in the world. Not well known, but it is a fact.
People who know me down there, and who also know me here,
have made the comment numerous times that when I go to Saint
Thomas I'm like a kid on the island. You know, I'm no longer 48,
nearly 49 years old. I'm 15-16 again. I'm like a kid, you know?
It's like everything just lifts off of me. The island has... It has
almost a magical feel. If that makes any sense, and, not just...
KC: Do you think that this feel is a result of programming? I
mean... islands, theoretically, are nice places. However, is it
possible that this is an implant to make you feel that it is, you
know, a lovely wonderful place, to attract you back to it
numerous times?
DO: It is. That's very possible. You know, I've been to Puerto
Rico many times. I lived right on the ocean more than once. I've
been to some other islands. I don't have the same feeling that I
have when I'm in St Thomas. It could be a fact that, you know, I
have memories of being a kid -- of being a small boy -- on St
Thomas, and, I think it's a...
It's a combination of things, but I think it comes back to that is
where the traumatic personality split first took place. When I was
a child was in St Thomas. Not on St Thomas proper... it was on
one of the channel islands that's around. Ah... the building
actually still stands, and it's government property, cordoned off.
No one's allowed over there, but I'm workin' on it.
KC: [laughs] So, are you feeling that if these personalities are
starting to come through on their own... is it making you
uncomfortable? Are you feeling that there is communication such
that you, Duncan that I'm talking to, can calmly say: One-Nine-
Seven, down! if One-Nine-Seven is aggravated, or something like
that?
DO’F: Whew! That's the 64-thousand-dollar-question, girl.
[laughs]
KC: [laughs]
DO’F: Umm, I was told -- let me preface it with this -- I was told
a couple 'a years ago by someone that if I could not reconcile the
two personalities then I would probably die. Well, I think that's
happening. There's a lot of things going on at the subconscious
level that my conscious level isn't aware of until after it's done,
once it's completed. I think what has to happen -- what must take
place is -- a total merging of these two personalities.
Now the other two that have manifested... Geez, I don't know
what to do with those. The berserker is frightening. Extremely
frightening. The little boy, I can deal with. And... going back to
Dan Doe, when he was here and we spent three days together, he
wanted to go to the gym where I worked out so he could observe,
and he did.
72
And he was witness to my eye color changing. So I shifted from
this personality to One-Nine-Seven personality during a heavy
lift, and... he saw it! He commented. He said: Dude, your eyes
just changed. But to me it was like everything was in slow
motion, you know. It's a really weird feeling.
KC: You're saying... When he said: Dude, your eye color just
changed, he's talking to the Duncan that I'm talking to right now,
isn't he? And then... But what's happening is that you've already
changed over to One-Nine-Seven, so One-Nine-Seven is
receiving the speech, right? So...
DO’F: Right.
KC: ...how does One-Nine-Seven react to that information?
DO’F: You see, the thing they have to keep in mind is that One-
Nine-Seven hears and sees everything that I did. He's completely
aware of everything that's going on.
KC: Right.
DO’F: What happened that day, I was doing a heavy bench
press. And once I got... jacked the weight up, and started to bring
it down, he said my eyes changed. And then I pressed it up, re-
racked the weight and sat up, and my eyes went back to normal.
One-Nine-Seven manifested, pressed the weight -- did the lift --
and then went back. Because I don't think I could have done that
lift by myself.
KC: I see. So it was like an adrenaline shift.
DO’F: Right. And then he went on to talk about Theta waves and
what-not, and I'm totally lost on that. Um... [laughs] I'm trying to
research it but I'm not a scientist.
KC: But, you are working with, as you say, a psychologist?
DO’F: Yes.
KC: Does he regress you at all? Does he use that kind of
therapy? Where...
DO’F: No.
KC: ...he would take you back to either incidents in this life,
and/or, even a prior life?
DO’F: No. We tried that once several years ago -- I think I
mentioned that -- and One-Nine-Seven manifested and was going
to kill the hypnotherapist.
KC: Okay.
DO’F: Yes. It most definitely... That needs to be done. But at the
same time, I don't think it can be done unless I am... severely
secured.
KC: Okay. I'm assuming that some of the other people in your
group are... You said their other personalities are spontaneously
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
coming forward as well, and that vengeance is their agenda? Is
that true?
DO’F: Yeah. That seems to be, but not the kind of vengeance of
Go out and raise bloody hell and mayhem. More to the point, I
think, of vengeance of let's bring this out, let's pull these people
out of the rabbit-hole and hold 'em up for everybody to see. More
of that kind of vengeance because, you know, our alternate
personalities are extremely intelligent. Much more intelligent
than we are in our born [laughs] personalities.
So they look at things more analytical. They break things apart
much more than we do. And they're very much aware that to just
go out and cause bloody mayhem would serve absolutely no
purpose. It would not serve their purpose, for sure.
So they want the truth. They want these things exposed. But at
the same time that my alternate -- and some of the other peoples’
alternates -- are seeking that type of retribution.
We have a... God, the easiest way to explain it... We have a
protection-type feeling that we also have a higher purpose. And
that is to protect. Protect who? Protect what? We'll find out, you
know, we're trying to find out.
BR: It sounds, Duncan, as if the One-Nine-Seven personality is
more like Jason Bourne in the movie. Would that be a rough
analogy?
DO’F: Actually, I didn't quite...
KC: He doesn't go to movies, so he might not know, Bill, if you
remember.
DO’F: Jason Bourne. I've never seen the movies.
BR: Understood.
DO’F: I know about them. I've been told about them, but I've
never seen them.
KC: Well, in many ways, you are like...
BR: My comments were just a...
KC: ... Jason Bourne in the sense only that he was an agent who
got amnesia, but he would actually kind of click over into that
personality. But he didn't know his... the origin. So in many ways
he was like you. It's like a fictional version of some of the things
you've told us about.
DO’F: Yeah. Okay.
BR: I was suggesting that Jason Bourne sounded more like One-
Nine-Seven, actually, 'cause Jason Bourne... like, he'll kill if he
has to. He wants to find out what the hell happened to him. He's
very analytical. He's very determined. He keeps on going like The
Terminator. He's determined to find the truth. He's a much
higher-ability person than most of the people around him, and
he's very relentless. And... it just sounded a little bit like that
73
personality type that's what you were describing One-Nine-Seven
to be. That's why I made the link.
DO’F: Okay, yeah. That clicks with me. I can understand that.
That has actually been mentioned to me before. And the one
distinction that always comes to mind with the differences -- as I
was told by several people who watched the movie -- is that he's
finally told that he, as an adult, volunteered for the program. The
difference between that and us is: we were kids and we didn't
volunteer.
KC: Absolutely. And it's very...
DO’F: That's the difference.
KC: ...wonderfully and graphically described by you in our
video interview of you which, if anyone's listening to this, I
encourage them to go back and watch that, which is really
fabulous. But, quite right, you didn't volunteer. And we do
remember that. So, Duncan, what're you seeing right now,
because you're... I'm not sure. Do you consider yourself a trained
remote viewer, or is the psychic part of your ... ah... sort of
warrior personality? More something that you've developed, but
it's not specifically a remote viewer?
DO: I would have to classify myself as a remote viewer of --
using the scale of one to ten -- about a one. [laughs] I suck. I'm
terrible. I get what is more commonly known as peek psychic
impressions. I'll see images. I'll see events happening. Maybe
only a brief glimpse of something that I have to sit down and
dissect and take it apart, and figure out exactly what it was that I
saw.
KC: Is One-Nine-Seven...
DO’F: Normally...
KC: Is One-Nine-Seven a remote viewer and/or psychic?
DO’F: Yeah. One-Nine-Seven is extremely psychic. Much more
so than I am.
BR: Just a couple of days ago I listened to Ed Dames being
interviewed on Coast to Coast, and many of the people listening
to this would be familiar with Ed Dames' work. And he was
asked by George Noory whether he used psychics in his remote
viewing program. And Ed Dames said -- and it's really very
interesting -- he said: Psychics are not the same as remote
viewers.
He said psychics are either completely on, or way off, and they
can't always tell the difference. They don't use a methodology.
Things just come to them spontaneously, and they almost have no
control over this. He said remote viewing is a technology that can
be taught. And Ed Dames said that he doesn't use psychics in his
remote viewing program because their actually harder to train
because they keep on going off on their own intuitions without
actually using the methodology.
I thought that was a very interesting distinction to make, and I
would certainly regard you as being psychic, and not someone
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
who wants to get involved with very black and white, linear
remote viewing protocols. That's not really your style.
DO’F: No, it isn't. I've tried remote viewing, you know. I've
listened to Ed off and on for a few years. Ah... I have my own
opinions about [laughs] Ed Dames, but, what he said is
essentially correct.
But I will say, however, that a lot of psychics, what they see is
absolutely spot-on. Where they make the mistake is trying to put
a date to it, or an exact location. Putting a date on a vision is
something that's damn near impossible. Unless you see the date --
you happen to see a newspaper or something of that nature with
the date on it -- it's almost impossible.
KC: Well, I took a class from Ed Dames, and I have to say that I
have studied remote viewing on and off besides that, and I have
to say that he also stresses that even remote viewers have a very
hard time finding dates for anything. So it's actually difficult,
regardless of what method you use. But I also know that that's not
completely true.
Ed Dames does use psychics, and as a matter of fact, Ingo [ed.
note: Ingo Swan] was a very well-developed psychic who, you
know, he's in essence, you might say, the father of remote
viewing. And many remote viewers are natural psychics and
they... Pat Price was a natural psychic. He was one of the first
remote viewers. Joseph McMoneagle is a natural psychic. I mean,
the best remote viewers are often natural psychics as well. So
what he's doing... a certain amount of dissembling there, I would
say.
DO’F: I can put my side of it together in a nice little nutshell. I'm
a terrible remote viewer, but I do receive tremendous amount of
psychic impressions. I do get glimpses of things, like on a daily
basis, and I will follow them. I'll turn left when I normally turn
right, that kind of thing. If I shake hands with someone, I'll get an
impression of what's really in their mind. I don't hear their
thoughts. I don't read minds. I get impressions. I get pictures. I
get what I call "picting".
Like when we did that first interview... remember when I asked
you, I said: Are you thirsty and you said: Yes. When I looked at
you, I got a flash -- an image -- of a Pepsi. Now, it was my
interpretation that, you know, what I interpreted it be is, that you
were thirsty.
KC: Right. And actually there’s where the psychic part can break
down because I don’t drink Pepsi, so, what you did was transpose
it into what you drink. I totally get that and I do remember that
incident, which, you know... It’s obvious that you are psychic
when one meets you, and sort of talks with you, and so on. And
with the Celtic and the Native American backgrounds -- those
two put together -- obviously you were chosen, in part, for
those... some of those qualities. Right?
DO’F: Yes we were. But however, I will say, in 1966 when I
was taken in... You know, a lot more memories have bubbled up
to the surface since we did that interview. And I do remember
children from various ethnic origins. We all -- all of us -- weren’t
Native American and Celtic mixed. But we were the predominant
species.
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KC: Understand. Can you tell us more about maybe some
incidents or some realizations that have come to you that might
be interesting for the listeners here?
DO: Well I think the biggest realization that I've had to come to
terms with and to deal with is that my father turned me over to
this project. It was, ah... [emotional pause] quite unnerving to
find out -- on the island of Saint Thomas, by the way -- that my
father was a CIA asset, an agent, and that he basically gave the
OK for me to be taken in.
He took me to have the test administered, and I obviously passed
the test, and we've had some thoughts on that, that I'll get into in
just a moment. When he... He may not have been able to have
said No. However, I do hold the grudge that, as I became older,
he could have talked to me about it, but he chose not to. That's
one of the things.
Let me get this while it's fresh in my mind. Remember the
puzzle... The picture on the puzzle, that I had to put together, was
the double helix, the DNA molecule. Yeah, I put the piece
together. However, there is a running theory that some of us have
that it wasn't so much that we got the puzzle together correctly,
but that we were able to pick up the psychic impressions from the
test administrator.
KC: On how to do so?
DO’F: Correct.
KC: Interesting.
DO’F: That's a running theory that we have right now.
KC: OK. Very interesting. So that means that, you know, your
psychic ability was a very big part of why you were selected, is
what you're saying?
DO’F: Right. And I do remember vividly most of the other kids
were spending more time laughing, talking, playing with each
other, while I was totally focused and concentrating on what I
was doing. That adds a little more credence to the fact that the
lady -- who we now know’s name is Elsa -- was probably
broadcasting some kind of thought image to see who could pick it
up. That was the... actually the real test.
BR: That makes sense, Duncan, because I remember very clearly
when you did your interview a couple of years ago, although
there were so many things to talk about and think about I didn't
pick it up with you at the time, but I remember thinking: Well,
okay, there's a kid solving a puzzle here. And I remember you
reporting that this woman said: Hey, we've got one -- or words to
that effect.
DO’F: Correct.
BR: But I remember thinking: Well, what's so special about a
kid solving a puzzle? You know, kids solve puzzles all the time.
DO’F: Correct.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: But you're saying that, actually, it was quite a simple puzzle
but what she was actually doing, she was directing you and you
were following her directions, andthat's how she knew that she'd
got one.
DO’F: Right. Because while I was doing the puzzle she was
standing behind me. By this time she had... She was totally
ignoring the other kids. She was standing behind me, focusing on
me. Also, I remember my mother was focusing on me as well.
Now, my mother was very psychic as well, 'cause she was full-
blooded Cherokee. And she would have dreams, visions, hints --
like 90 percent of them would turn out to be true. My father's
grandfather was supposed to have been a Celtic Druid. So when
you put those two bloodlines together, I guess, they got what they
were looking for.
KC: Yes. Very interesting. So what is your psychic intuition
telling you nowadays about the current times, what we're going
through here in the United States, as well as the possible future?
DO’F: Get ready to run [laughing]. It's going to get bad. That has
been there for some time, and it hasn't left. Whew... It's going to
get nasty.
KC: Can you describe it a little more specifically? I know you
live in the middle of the country. Are you planning to stay there?
You once told us the best thing to do during these times was to be
mobile. Do you still feel that way?
DO’F: I do. Be prepared to be mobile. What I have been seeing
are cities and towns in total darkness, on fire, with people
screaming. Some people just... have just laid down in the street
and just refused to get up. Um... some of them are very
frightened, and in the darkness and the smoke there is something
that is coming through. It's very bad -- very evil -- but I can't see
what it is. This isn't any one particular city or town. This is pretty
much going to be everywhere.
BR: I presume that you haven't got a time on this?
DO’F: A date? No. Only an impression. The impression is more
intense now than it was the last we spoke. That it's... It's getting
closer. You know, I wish I could just say: Okay, on this date, this
is what's going to happen, but I can't. Also, there's going to be a
major political uprising in this country. This country, politically,
is going to split right down the seams -- it's going to tear itself in
half -- and I think that will happen within the next two years.
Everybody... One of the things that a lot of people ask me about
is 2012. Yeah, we are headed towards a culmination of events. I
will not venture out and say that it will happen exactly on 2012.
The reason I say that is due to the differences in calendars. No
one can tell me exactly what today is. They can tell me what
today is with the Julian calendar, an Aztec calendar, a Chinese
calendar. But no one can actually tell me what today actually is.
So whatever's coming may be 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 [laughs]
and on it goes. But it is coming.
KC: Are other people that you're, you know... You're sort of in a
group now that you're talking about. Maybe you're in contact
75
with others that are like yourself. Are they also seeing things in
the future? Do you compare notes at all?
DO’F: We do. Some of us speak almost on a daily basis. One of
the strongest psychics that I've ever known in my life has given
more than one warning against... I've never known her to be
wrong. She said, and I'll quote her: An evil wind does blow, and
it's not going to stop. She's flat told me: Get ready. I can't see
what it is. I don't know what it is, but it's comin' and it's almost
here.
KC: Do you feel like, possibly, your personality One-Nine-
Seven could have been created in part to deal with those times in
some form or fashion?
DO’F: [laughs] That's one of the things that we've been
discussing. Ah... Yeah. We do. You know, like I've said, these
people who created us were evil geniuses. There's no doubt about
that. But even a genius can be wrong. There are things that have
transpired with these alternate personalities that, we believe,
where completely unforeseen by the creators. They've unleashed
a Pandora's Box.
When they opened us up and let us out of Pandora's Box we were
used for some very explicit evil deeds. There's no doubt about
that, and we're learning to deal with that. But, if everyone
remembers the story of Pandora's Box, the last thing to exit the
box was hope. So that's what we're putting together with the
skills that we were ingrained with, trained and taught, is hope. To
try to turn it around, do a complete 180, and use what we can to
help. We'll just see how successful we are.
BR: The group that you're working with... Because of the emails
that we get about this subject, people having told us that they
watched your interview, and I remember one of the words that
somebody said that -- it was really quite chilling -- they said that
they felt that you were telling their story on their behalf. We've
had several messages like that. You must get more than we do.
How many people are there out there who've been through your
program, and you've shared your experiences, who have
contacted you over the last couple of years? What's the order of
magnitude? Is it hundreds? How many people are there?
DO’F: I have been contacted by many. I would say... Contacted
personally? Close to a hundred. Some of these people are in the
group that we formed. Essentially what I am, I'm the mouth-piece
for the group, and I personally think they should've chosen
someone else. I have a tendency to go overboard occasionally. I
do have a temper, even in this personality.
In some interviews I have not been so kind with some callers.
People would come in with really overboard, off the wall
narcissistic questions [laughs] and I haven't been really kind. But
it's a job that I've been stuck with and I will continue to do the
best I can do.
To expand on your question... Oh, I... My project with 1966 -- I
am what is known as "second generation". I was contacted by
someone who was in a very, very similar project in the 1950s. He
would have been first generation. One of the people in our group
was right after me. She was third generation. Another person in
our group was about fifteen years later. That person's fourth
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
generation. So you see the progression. It hasn't stopped. It
continues.
BR: Yeah. And the implication, Duncan, is that if you've been
contacted, let's say, by the best part of a hundred people, it
doesn't take much for you and I to figure out that there must be
thousands out there.
DO’F: I would have to say yes. As a matter of fact, Dan -- who
we discussed earlier -- has estimated, from information that he
has received from one of his "CIA contacts" , there's an estimated
one million of us in one form or another. Not necessarily as
trained, or put through what we have gone through, but a million
like us. In like ways.
BR: I assume that these, then, are the products of the
experimental technologies of different countries, not just the
United States. Is that correct?
DO’F: That is correct. These experiments and projects are not
just home to the U.S. No, they've been worldwide. As a matter of
fact I was contacted by someone in Russia who said that he was
part of a very like project there.
KC: Isn't it true, though -- and obviously Daniel should speak for
himself here -- but my understanding is that he feels that he was
genetically engineered, in part, to be... In other words, it wasn't
just training. There was actually genetic engineering that went on
even, I guess, possibly before birth. Is that your understanding?
DO’F: It is. It is. We've discussed that. There's also been talk
that the genetic engineering part started even in the first
generation. As far as I'm concerned, which is actually the only
one that I can truly speak for in this matter, I've been augmented.
That much I know. My adrenal glands are much larger than
normal. My bone density and mass is much more than normal.
That's why I've never had a [laughs] major broken bone before.
KC: So, in other words, your mother, when she conceived you,
could have participated -- maybe unknowingly -- in some kind of
genetic program.
DO’F: I'll tell you what one of our remote viewers said, and I
think since you've studied remote viewing, you probably know.
Remote viewing is not only in the future and the present, it can
also go backwards. They saw my mother in a hospital, the egg
was removed, was injected and then re-implanted. So if that is
true -- and I'm preferencing -- that if that is true, then yes,
definitely, I was genetically altered.
KC: Yeah. I think that, in a certain sense... Now again, I don’t
know, would you consider yourself a hybrid?
DO’F: I’ve given that a tremendous amount of thought and, with
what I know now, even more so than when we did the first
interview, I would have to say yes. Now, a hybrid to what?
[Kerry laughs] that’s the question.
KC: Right. Well, my understanding is... I mean, all of humanity
is a hybrid in one form or another because we’ve been through so
many different genetic engineerings, if you will. But you
specifically, in a group of you, you’re not unlike Dan Sherman,
76
who you... I don’t know if you ever saw his interview that we did
with him. He was specifically engineered -- genetically
engineered. He has his own evidence of that with his mother. But
he was specifically engineered to communicate with ETs on a
psychic and intuitive level.
DO’F: You know, I’ve been asked that question a lot: Where do
I fit in with ETs and the visitors and what-not? I’m up front. I
don’t know.
KC: Mm hm.
DO’F: I have no memory of ever being on an alien craft, or
being face to face with one, or anything like that. And I’ve said it
publicly before. Do I believe in extraterrestrial life? Yes. I do. I
mean, my god, go out on a clear night and take a look! [laughter]
I mean, look up! I mean, to say that this little ball of rock floating
around Sol is the only place with life on it -- or intelligent life --
in this vastness. That’s just not logical.
KC: When you’re in St Thomas, are you aware of... As you said,
you are aware of certain, maybe, directional scalar influences
possibly being aimed at you. I know that we were interviewing
you with Corso and there was a very clear pulse that hit the stereo
when it was turned off when we were... actually during the
interview. When you’re on St Thomas are you seeing, number
one, maybe an unusual amount of craft in the sky and/or activity?
Are you just aware of activity there that might be unusual or
different than, possibly, what you find around you when you’re in
the U.S.?
DO’F: Yeah, actually, that’s a good question. Two things. It
seems like... the time the plane lands till the plane takes off, I
have a headache. It’s not a migraine. It’s nothing I need to take a
break from. But it’s right there. It’s right in the center of my
forehead the whole entire time I’m on island.
The only other thing is: someone made a comment that there’s
always a very large Coast Guard ship in dock when I’m there
[laughs] with some real big, high-gain antennas on it. [Kerry
laughs] And it’s never there, unless I’m there.
KC: Interesting. Are you aware of any underground activity
there?
DO’F: Well, probably so. A lot of people may not know about
the island of St Thomas. It’s a mountain island. The property that
I have is on the top of the second highest mountain there. You go
up on top and you can see the entire island. So I would have to
say: Probably so. There’s probably underwater connecting
tunnels to some of the channel islands that dot that whole area.
I’ll send you guys some pictures and you’ll see what I’m talkin'
about.
KC: Well if there’s a submarine... You said the largest
submarine base in the world is in between there and Puerto Rico?
DO’F: No. It’s actually off the coast of Puerto Rico.
KC: Okay.
DO’F: It’s off the northern coast.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: I wondered, because you said you had a property there on
Saint Thomas, if this was one of your plan B's in case anything
gets too rough in America, then you’ve got somewhere to go if
you have to leave the mainland. I wondered if you were thinking
that far ahead.
DO’F: Oh, I have, I have. It’s funny. I have more friends on St
Thomas than I do in the States, actually. My attorney’s on St
Thomas. I actually have some relatives on St Thomas. There are
records of my family doing land transactions on that island dating
back to the 1780s. If I had not seen those with my own eyes I
would not have believed it. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. It’s 1840s. The
1780s is when they... Captain Fanning, an ancestor of mine,
founded the Fanning Island, which is on the other side of the
world. He was a pirate, okay? [laughter] He was about as
scandalous as he could be. [laughs]
KC: Very interesting. Yeah. Actually, if you have family records
on St Thomas, it might also explain how they might have found
you, assuming that you were not genetically implanted. Because
it seems like St Thomas is some kind of a base.
DO’F: Oh, definitely. Most definitely. St Thomas and St Croix.
St Croix is also a refueling base, as well as a large Air Force
contingent. Puerto Rico has a... [laughs] one of the largest
military presence per capita than any other place on the mainland
USA. They have a Naval base, Air base, Army base, Marine
base. You name it, they’ve got a base there.
KC: Right. Incredible.
BR: We’ve had a number of people who’ve written to us, having
seen your first video when you described how were in the MRI
machine, and it started to pick up this implant that was in your
head and the thing caught fire. A number of people have said to
us: Hey, wait a minute. An MRI machine doesn’t catch fire. Did
he really mean an MRI machine? Or is this a different kind of
machine that I don’t know about? Is there any clarification that
you can offer on that?
DO’F: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It wasn’t the actual machine, it was
the control panels. What I was told later on after that, is that there
was feedback. If I’m understanding this correctly, an MRI
machine acts just a little like radar when it reads the image back,
and that’s what happened. It wasn’t exactly the machine itself, if
that makes any sense.
BR: That clarifies things a lot, actually, for the more technically-
minded people out there. Because an MRI machine is a Magnetic
Resonance Imager. It works on magnetic resonance.
DO’F: Right.
BR: If it was resonating magnetically with something, then I
could imagine some kind of a resonance pulse would set up, that
actually would create problems.
DO’F: Yeah. What happened is, there were no problems. When
they pushed me back into the tunnel there was no problem. They
started talking to me... no problem. Then as soon as that thing
started to spin and make the sound, when the magnetic waves
77
begin to start, it was like someone drove a hot spike through my
skull.
That’s when I started seeing all the images, all the memories, all
the blood, the gut, the mayhem... the whole gauntlet, and I came
out absolutely screaming. I could smell the smoke. The techs and
the nurses were trying to get hold of me, get a handle on me and
calm me down which, I was told, was extremely hard to do
[laughs] ’cause I was... It was like somebody on a... having a total
breakdown. I remember screaming.
BR: That sounds like one of the kind of experiences that could
have triggered one of your other personalities at that time.
DO’F: Very true. Very true.
BR: Okay. Thanks for clarifying that, Duncan. I’ve got a final
question. How do you see, or how would you like to see, your
own life playing out in the next few years? What do you see
ahead of you? Because you’re here as a Warrior, not just for the
military, but for the human race and representing this bunch of
people who want you to be their spokesman, and their leader, and
their representative. And you’ve played a hero for all here. So
you’re fighting a fight, but not in the way that the military
intended you to. How do you see things playing out in the next
few years for yourself?
DO: What I’d like to see, and what I have seen, is two entirely
different things. What I would like to see is some admissions by
some governments that these operations took place, are taking
place and they stop -- and just have some peace and watch the
kids grow up -- two acres, the lawn and have a little
woodworking shop or something. That’s what I would like. But
that’s not what I’ll ever have.
What I have seen is myself and others of the group leading
groups of people to safety. That’s what I’ve seen. That’s also
what some of the other people in the group have seen. ‘Cause it’s
going to get so hot.
KC: Exactly. I think the times are coming, right?
DO’F: Definitely. And they’re coming a lot faster than some
people realize. When they start it’s going to be like a domino
effect, you know...
KC: Exactly.
DO’F: ...once the precursor hits, and the precursor’s going to be
a total split in the political system in this country. That’s going to
happen. And once that happens... [sighs] all bets are off. It’s
going to be crazy.
KC: Yeah. I think... I’ve seen one version of that myself. So...
Okay. Thank you, Duncan. That’s rather a sobering ending for
this brief chat we’ve been having with you. But I do appreciate
the vision. It’s quite interesting. We’re looking forward to having
you at our conference. It’s very exciting to know that you’re
going to speak to the people. That’s just going to be wonderful.
Thank you very much for connecting with us here. This is a rare
treat for us to be able to really connect with you, and then at the
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
same time actually be able to record it so that we can share it with DO’F: No problem, guys. Anything for you guys.
others.
BR: God bless you, and you take care of yourself and take care
DO’F: Well I appreciate it. Thank you two guys very much. of anybody else you can.

BR: This is a very good one, Duncan. You’re a star. Thank you DO’F: You do as well, bud.
so much for spending your time here.

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy

support@projectcamelot.org

78
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dr. Bill Deagle - Telephone Interview Transcript
29 April 2009
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi, this is Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan
from Project Camelot. It's April 29th, a Wednesday, and we're
here with Dr. Bill Deagle.
We're very happy to be talking to you Bill. We are trying to get
an update on what’s going on with the virus. I don’t know if it’s
really officially a pandemic. Maybe you can explain that to us;
when something becomes a pandemic versus just some kind of
virus going around.
Bill Deagle (BD): Yes, If you actually stick to the six phases of
the World Health Organization Categorization, it’s actually in
Phase Five of a pandemic right now. Phase Six is the out-of-
control, top level of it. And that’s by definition. It means it’s
rapidly spreading to other continents, it’s having close-to-close
human-to-human contact and it is causing deaths. Now there’s
probably more than one strain circulating.
One of the concerns that I have is that this virus... I agree with
Dr. Len Horowitz (I just saw his video clip today). All the
evidence indicates that it was a CDC World Health Organization
virus. They were working with a company called Novavax, but
there's actually six companies making these vaccines, including
Sanofi Pasteur, that has 382 million doses of a dual RNA
biphasic vaccine.
The RNA vaccine where they’ve given the first phase, as long
ago as three or four months ago, to our troops. And they’ve
already announced earlier this year that they are going to give it
to all the county sheriffs and their families. And the second
phase, when they “have an antigenically more accurate second
phase vaccine.”
KC: I’m sorry, I’m not understanding you. Are you saying that
this virus is part of something that has been given to our troops as
a vaccine?
BD: Well, no. It’s a separate thing. The one given to our troops
is a first phase, called an RNA vaccine, by Sanofi Pasteur. What
Dr. Horowitz is showing in his video clip (which you may want
to talk to him) -- and I agree it’s the CDC World Health
Organization -- there’s direct complicity with them and British
79
recombinant viral biologists that’ve actually worked on this
project, and he has all the connecting dots.
It fits in with the documentation which I received from scientists
and doctors in March of 1997 that was smuggled out of the Basel
Headquarters of the World Health Organization. They were going
to resurrect with gene fragments the 1918 swine human flu
recombinant, and then convert it with some Avian genes, put it
into Asia and then later release a bridge virus, which is what this
virus is.
There are two strains in Mexico City. One that’s making people
very sick and the other one that’s actually killing people. So, we
won’t know for a couple of weeks, but if it starts to show
selective deaths of only Hispanic people in America, then we
know -- like AIDS, which is 16 times more likely to kill blacks
than to kill whites -- that it is a race specific bioweapon.
There are six companies producing vaccine for the World Health
Organization and the international community. Pfizer
Pharmaceutical, Sanofi Pasteur, Baxter Laboratories that actually
had this accident in 18 different labs in four countries, and shut
down the biotest lab in the Czech Republic. Their phone is off the
hook. Nobody’s answering the phone. We’ve been having our
people -- Alexander Jones, an NIH whistleblower -- calling them
daily and they are now not only not returning calls, either Baxter
or Biotest in the Czech Republic, their phone is disconnected.
But the Sanofi was the one where the U.S. government contracted
for 382 million plus doses of this binary vaccine. Their branch
plant in Beijing shipped it four-and-a-half to five months ago,
and it is now shipped to major military U.S. bases. They’ve
already been administering it for the past four months to our
troops; the first phase of this binary vaccine. And they say the
second phase will be “antigenically more accurate” for the
“Avian Flu.” It’s an Avian flu vaccine. Research about it...
KC: But you can’t vaccinate against it; is my understanding.
BD: Right, but what they’re doing is they’re saying they’re
doing it. And they’ve given an RNA vaccine they say will prime
them so they will have an immune response within a week rather
than two to three weeks.
This latest thing that Novavax is working on is a similar virus in
which they actually recombined the H1N1 swine flu from 1918,
that was resurrected by Dr. Taugenberger -- [ed. note: Dr.
Jeffery Taugenberger] -- at the CDC, with the H5N1 lethal
strains and human viruses, and they actually created vaccines
which they were playing around with. Novavax, and what Dr.
Horowitz has stated and it’s probably correct, is that this
company’s virus is virtually identical to the one which has been
released in Mexico City.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So they probably sprayed it over Mexico City because when you
have a weakened population with a lot of biotoxins in the
environment it makes it easier for them to become ill. So, yeah,
this is absolutely manmade. I don’t call it a swine flu because it’s
not. With swine flu 20 percent of all veterinarians in Ohio,
according to research, are positive for antibodies to swine virus
and they don’t get sick or die.
KC: I’m sorry, I really have to get back to the troops. What is it
they’re giving our troops and what is going to be the result of
what they’re giving our troops?
BD: What they’re doing is inserting what’s called H5N1 RNA.
In other words, they’re inserting some RNA which actually stays
in their body and modifies the genetics of the troops so that their
immune systems will respond more quickly when they give them
the second phase of this vaccine that is called a binary or second
phase vaccine.
KC: When you say: their immune systems will respond more
quickly, you’re saying that...
BD: That’s their theory. That’s what they’re saying.
KC: ...in theory, they will fight off the disease faster?
BD: That’s what they are saying.
KC: Because there is no real reason, in my mind, why they
would want our troops to die of a virus.
BD: Well, I would think that there is actually a very good reason
they would want our troops to die.
KC: Okay. Other than in battle? Because this is what they use
them for.
BD: No. They want our troops to die so they can bring in foreign
troops on American soil because they will shoot at American
citizens and disarm them. American troops won’t. That’s already
been established. So they want our troops sick and they want our
troops dead.
KC: Okay, that’s quite a statement.
BD: Yeah, it is. It’s true. I have that from inside sources, too,
and they’re very concerned inside the military. The county
sheriffs were announced -- we had whistleblowers from several
states including Arizona and Arkansas, and other states that we
had -- that they were... Also, the Department of Homeland
Security, as well as the state health departments in states across
the United States, have been planning to vaccine all the county
sheriffs and their families with the same vaccine. But, as far as I
know, I haven’t had my whistleblowers tell me they’ve actually
done it yet.
KC: Okay. Again, why would they vaccinate? If you say the
vaccine is actually preparing them... I’m getting the impression
that you’re telling us that it’s preparing them for the next wave of
this virus.
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BD: Well, the one that they‘re...
KC: It’s not going to protect them; it is going to kill them. So
again, why would they want to kill...
BD: We don’t know. All we know is, number one: it may give
them a false sense of protection, at the very least.
Number two: this is totally experimental. There’s no research to
show that you can make a binary vaccine and you can prime
someone with this RNA so that when they get a second phase
that’s antigenically correct... The thing is, the virus is going to
come up with multiple sub-strains, and it’s extremely unlikely
that they can create one quick enough. The fastest you can use it,
if you use cell culture, is probably 60 days minimum. If you use
cell culture and egg membrane, you can use 6 months, at least.
And the virus changes so quickly that it wouldn’t be genetically
correct, and number two, I don’t believe the vaccines work
anyway. In fact, the research has shown that whose who received
the vaccine to the swine virus in 1918 were the ones that died.
They depress Sermion [sp?] systems; they increase the risk of
new recombinants forming.
Like they were giving the swine vaccine in Mexico City until the
weekend when the WHO finally reported -- after me and many
others were saying they shouldn’t be vaccinating -- they actually
discontinued the program. But that would actually insert new
DNA, new viral material so you could actually form
recombinants, or new viruses, that would swap DNA and create
new viral strains that could be more lethal and spread more
quickly.
In Mexico City and other areas, and by the way this is spreading
very rapidly. It is almost certain there's a strain that causes a bad
flu and there is a strain that causes a bad flu that kills. It causes a
cytokine storm.
KC: But my understanding is that people in the U.S. are not
dying from this.
BD: Right. My guess is the strain that got into the U.S. is a very
bad flu but it is not the strain yet. But the fact is... Here’s what
happened: in H5N1 -- and I had the documents 12 years ago --
the primary reason, the number one reason when I started radio
broadcasting fulltime four years ago plus was to warn people of
this because I had the documents; I was given the information to
warn people that this is coming.
This is one of the primary vehicles that the globalists want to use
to quell any resistance to the new financial order that’s coming;
to quell resistance to revolution in Mexico and the United States
when the economy collapses and they switch to a new financial
order worldwide.
They are bringing in a Hate Crimes Bill today: HR1913. This is
the 29th, which is to be voted on, and it is the most noxious hate-
crime bill which will affect everyone of every group, either skin
color, or religion or lack of religion or whatever. It’ll affect
everybody. This will allow them to have totalitarian control and
selective prosecution of anyone who speaks of against any issue
that they don’t like you to talk about.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Bill Ryan (BR): Hello, Dr. Bill, it is good to be talking to you.
BD: Yeah, it is good to talk to you again, Bill.
BR: You’re in the excellent position to understand the
controller’s thinking. If you were one of their strategists, what do
you think their strategic plan is, of which this may be a very early
stage.
BD: What they have done is release a bridge virus. [he spells] b-
r-i-d-g-e. This bridges and spreads very quickly between humans.
The earlier strain that’s in the United States is a bad flu but it
isn’t lethal. The second strain which is in Mexico City is killing
people at a relatively rapid rate; we’re going to guess somewhere
at around eight to ten percent case fatality rate, which is pretty
high, to go four times higher than the 1918 swine flu pandemic,
which is a swine-human recombinant.
I went over the DNA letters 3 years ago with Henry L. Niman,
head of Recombinomics, that has more patents than any other
Ph.D. virologist in history on recombination, which is how
viruses change; they swap DNA. I think they have already pulled
the trigger. The hammer has fallen and it will come in waves that
could occur over months, or years, or even more than a decade.
So if we get over this, as Napolitano has stated as the Head of
Homeland Security, former governor of Arizona, we are almost
certainly looking at a wave. Whether it’s six weeks or three
months or six months, that is going to have a much higher case
fatality rate and it’s shown already that they’re doing nothing and
plan to do nothing to stop the virus from moving.
Now they could do things like having an antiviral hepa filter in
every aircraft, tracking every person that flies or crosses a border
for at least ten to twelve days; making sure they don’t have
symptoms, tracking all their contacts. They could give everybody
antipathogenics, actually build their immune system like Super
Silver or NutriDine and the element allicin, which if you just take
a little bit of it, it prevents you from getting a primary infection.
They could issue true nanoparticle masks -- and the best is the
Nano Mask -- or a NIOSH N100 mask, and if you are in an area
you probably also need an eye shield because you can get it
sprayed in your eyes. If you use natural good hygiene practices,
really, you could stop this cold.
The fact is the government is doing nothing to stop it. They are
not doing anything to stop commerce or truckers coming in from
Mexico or airline flights. They are not doing anything to track
anybody. I brought these issues up in 2002 with the FBI and the
CDC director for bioterrorism, along with Dr. Jay Reddington,
Infectious Disease Director at the University of Colorado,
because I was the point man under Dr. John Hughes of Rocky
Mountain OccMed. We worked on Operation TOPOFF and Dark
Winter in the late ’90s doing bioweapons war simulations.
The fact is the government is doing everything to make sure that
if this does acquire new genetics and new sub-strains emergent
that enter the United States and other countries, they’re going to
declare martial law. They have now -- and I have this from my
military contacts, trained over 50,000 returning U.S. troops --
there are special crack troops now upgraded to handle, in these
new Chem-Bio suits, the administration of drugs and/or vaccines
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at gunpoint. And also civil detention camps are now being set up
as quarantine camps all across the United States.
As of two weeks ago they had 50,000 already trained and ready
to roll. This is before this, what I call the lab flu, North American
lab flu. I’m not going to call this swine flu because there are
genes from the Avian flu; the new Avian flu. It has genes from
Swine, from Human and Asian flu; genes from three continents,
so this is not... It’s coming from the wrong place; it always
emerges from Asia.
So this is a laboratory flu that almost certainly was released in
Mexico City on purpose. The virus is basically going to acquire
new genetics. It also grows well in birds and animals, like pigs
and probably cattle. It’s going to allow the jumping of those
Avian genes, H5N1, that are killing millions of birds on every
continent.
I have reports from game wardens in British Columbia,
Washington state and Oregon, and other places across the US and
Canada that millions of birds are dying; like the Shearwater Gulls
are dying. The Canadian geese are returning and their chicks are
dying of this strange virus, which we are pretty certain is the
H5N1 Avian flu, so there is already a pandemic among birds. But
until a few months ago it couldn’t grow in less than 106 degrees
[Fahrenheit] because of the PB2 gene.
Well, in the wild, we discovered that the PB2 gene change is
present in some places in Asia. But the PB2 gene change is
already in the H1N1 virus. This new lab virus has that PB2 that
allows it to grow in human nasal mucous areas, and it also has a
full receptor binding domain so that it can attach to human cells
very efficiently. And if it acquires the H gene, which is the 6
polybasic amino acids, it can grow on brain and other tissues.
The other changes, including the deletion on the NS1, is going to
allow it to completely bypass the immune system. So it’s going to
be able to transfer the lethality from the H5N1, that is already
killing millions of birds, into humans and possibly other animals,
etcetera.
So that’s going to come in waves. It could occur over a period of
two months or even one wave after another. In 1918 the first
wave was relatively mild flu that killed very few people. It was
more like a serious typical flu. And when it came back in the late
summer and early fall -- the second wave -- it started killing
people very, very seriously with a case fatality rate between two-
and-a-half to five percent.
We don’t have all the statistics in now but we are guessing that
the current case fatality for the more lethal strain in Mexico is
probably around ten percent, which is pretty high. My guess is
that, as it acquires new genes, that case fatality rate will rise up
toward 20 to 30 percent.
The biggest danger is that, because of fear, transportation, travel,
and infrastructure -- including distribution of food and goods --
will stop or shut down significantly. That’s where the
government will declare martial law and close the borders, and
try to control transportation, so food and other materials are still
being shipped to the big cities. Otherwise, the chaos will actually
cause more problems. In fact, we did a computer simulation in
Denver back in the ’90s and we estimated if there was a total
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
shutdown of infrastructure caused by the fear of a pandemic it
would kill more people than the actual virus.
BR: In a sense, Dr. Bill, it doesn’t really matter what the lethality
is, or even if there really is an outbreak at all, if enough people
believe there is and the media is used in the way that we know
that it can be used.
BD: Yes.
BR: Actually, that’s all they need to do.
KC: Then what we’re talking about here is people actually
staying in observer mode and taking a step back. What I
understand is: normal flu kills 30,000 to 50,000 people a year in
the United States.
BD: That statistic is actually one that they always throw out and
it is actually based on an estimate. It’s not a real number and it is
not based on actual facts. The flu itself, basically, unless you’re
in a debilitated state, usually doesn’t cause a problem. The
difference with the 1918 flu is that it strikes the young and
healthy because it bypasses the body’s immune system until it
overwhelms the body. You can incubate it for 8 days and people
don’t even know. You’re not even sneezing or coughing, but
you’re touching your face or other body parts and passing it to
other people. [Then you can] spike a fever and have a seizure and
in 45 minutes be dead.
KC: Okay, I understand this. You’re a doctor, Dr. Bill. If we
could talk about how they can prevent this?
BD: Well the first thing they need to think of is, number one, this
is just a bug. Like any bug. In fact, it’s probably no more
transmissible than the regular flu. The First Line Of Defense Kit I
put together has the Nutridefense which blocks the virus that
attaches to the cells with a special magnesium salt of ECGC
catagens, and it has monolauren that blocks viruses so that they
cannot replicate.
The Nutrimmune boosts the natural killer cells to fight all
pathogens. It has the Defense Wipes. It has monolauren and
lauric acid and nisin to shift all viruses and all bacterial cell
walls, but it is totally biodegradable so it won’t destroy the
environment. And we have the NanoMasks; and we have a good
supply of those at the moment although it is going quickly.
The reason I mention this is that people can try to get other
things. If they can’t get this, they want to get at least a NIOSH
N100 mask. If they use things that are antibacterial off the shelf
of, say Wal-Mart, they’re not going to work because they are not
anti-viral. They’re antibacterials and they are fairly mild, like
Purell Soap.
You want to prevent a primary infection so something as simple
as our silver salt, called Super Silver, is the only one with a U.S.
patent. The government and homeland security, for the past four
years, have been buying literally container loads of this. And the
reason is they know this works because we have tested it in labs
in Brazil and overseas, and in the United States. It will kill a high
pathogen like Avian flu. We’ve done actual tests in lab animals.
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We know it will prevent primary infection, so as simple as a
teaspoon three times a day of the Super Silver will do that. It is
the same with our medical grade allicin and our very unique
NutriDine. Other things people take, like they say: Well I’m
going to take Oregano, or I’m going to... Those will help a little
but there is no evidence that they are anywhere near in the class
of the things that we’re talking about.
You do not want to get a primary infection. If you get a primary
infection with these organisms it’s very, very dangerous because
it is one of the higher pathogenic strains. There is no warning
before you are going to hit a crisis, say a week or ten days after
you get infected.
KC: Okay, my understanding is that colloidal silver is not the
same thing as the type of silver you are supposed to be using.
BC: Well, colloidal... Yeah, this is a hundred times stronger.
Colloidal silver is a large particle and different sized particles.
The Super Silver is a silver salt so it doesn’t bio-accumulate in
the body. It is a uniform particle size which is tuned to a scalar
frequency like Tesla to 910 terahertz, so it shatters the bonds of
all pathogens. It has a tetra silver oxygen wrap on the molecule
so that it actually creates a scalar signal. It has a capacity to
penetrate through biofilms so it can kill at a distance. It doesn’t
even need to get in direct contact with the pathogens.
So it’s very unique. It has three patents on the technology that no
other silver, including OxySilver, Mild Silver Protein, any other
silver in the world. Now I had Dr. Gordon Peterson on, he’s work
with the Homeland Security on a program called AeroClave, and
they haven’t... I haven’t talked to him in about a month and a
half.
I don’t know if they signed a contract but he has actually worked
with Homeland Security. AeroClave will clear any international
aircraft, like a Boeing 767, in 45 seconds of all pathogens,
resistant TB, viruses, bacteria, by putting an aerosol into the
aircraft and quickly vacuuming it out of the aircraft. It will kill all
pathogens in 45 seconds.
KC: Okay, do they use it?
BD: They can’t. I don’t know if they have. He has already done
presentations with them. An independent company that he
worked with developed it for the airline industry and the
government. This is the only silver that has been tested to do this.
No other one. The government has the information; they have the
research and we have the tests.
Now if people were to get one thing that’s compact and easy to
carry, the one I would recommend is our NutriDine which is
diatomic. It’s very unique. It is a formula that was conceived and
prophesied by Edgar Cayce.
So we have the NutriDine. It will quell all known pathogens. We
have a clinic in India that is using this for the Untouchables that
can’t get any healthcare there, and we’re using it to put AIDS
into remission and to treat topical and internal cancers. It’ll kill
all known pathogens and parasites. The NutriDine is so powerful
that as little as ten drops, three times a day, will kill all known
pathogens; taken orally.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Are you familiar with MMS? [ed. note: Miracle Mineral
Supplement]
BD: MMS is a chlorine dioxide and it has been used for many
years to kill pathogens. The problem is: any chlorinated molecule
will attach to amide groups of amino acids so as well as an
antipathogenic it also displaces iodine from the mitochondria so
can cause problems with toxicity, so I wouldn’t recommend
MMS.
It will clear pathogens, just like antibiotics will. I think it's a very
good antipathogenic but it has toxicity because it’s going to
attach to... it’s going to release chlorine. Chlorine will attach to
amide groups of amino acids and other molecules. It will form
chloramines and therefore I believe it has toxicity. There is no
need for that. The only safe halide is iodine in the body. Any
other halide, which includes fluoride, bromide or chloride, or
chlorine molecules, have toxicity.
BR: I had the pleasure of meeting personally with Jim Humble a
few months ago, and he’s the first to admit that he’s not a
microbiologist or a medical doctor. If one was pretty seriously
sick, MMS might not be a bad option.
BD: If you can only mix this together and that is the only thing
you have, absolutely, use it. For example, I am shipping at my
own expense to some of these other companies, to our
missionaries overseas, case lots of NutriDine. I’m doing that at
my own expense so that they have it. They already have cases.
We’re able to cure intracerebral malaria, parasites, worms; we
kill everything.
It sterilizes the water. So I would say, yeah, if you have no
choice, by all means use MMS, but if you do have a choice...
because if you do it for any length of time, you’re likely to
accumulate biotoxins. You know, obviously if you have a choice
between life and death use your MMS, but if you have
alternatives, you would be best to get the NutriDine first, and
then the Super Silver or Allimed Allicin.
Allimed Allicin is a medical drug administered by doctors in
Europe but I have access to sell it here in North America without
a prescription. This will kill all pathogens. It’ll kill Lyme disease,
viruses, bacteria. We have proof that we can even give it to
someone that’s on intravenous antibiotics that’s in the ICU
[Intensive Care Unit] and it will save their life. We do that all the
time, everyday. That’s the way I would approach it is that yes, it
will save lives but it’s toxic.
BR: OK. That’s very clear, Bill, thank you very much for that.
BD: You’re welcome.
BR: I think a lot of people wouldn’t disagree with you, and I
think that it’s one of these things that’s good for the occasional
emergency, but prolonged use probably is not the ideal...
BD: Oh yeah. People who take it daily, as a preventive or for a
period of months or years, are going to get problems. But it’s the
same thing as people drinking water that’s heavily chlorinated or
with fluoride. You accumulate fluoride, and it calcifies the
choroid plexus and the ventricles and the pineal gland, and it
83
literally shuts down the third eye and astral eye so you can’t see
torsional vortex images, and you can’t see transdimensionally.
So in terms of the spirit, it actually cuts off what is called the
Cord of Living Waters so all halides, other than iodine, block and
attack that part of the brain. It attacks the connection of the pineal
gland in the sense of the Cord of Living Waters and the higher
dimensional reality of what we are.
Chlorine is toxic. It’s one of the reasons why they push
chlorination of water, and fluoridation... [it’s] why they want to
push Sulfuryl fluoride. Which, by the way, isn’t only even more
toxic but it’s 17,000 times more of a heat reflective when it gets
in the upper atmosphere (and it doesn’t degrade) than even
carbon dioxide or methane.
BR: My only question now really is: what do you expect to see
this summer in North America?
BD: Well, to be honest with you, we could stop this pretty
quickly if we decided to take decisive action. If, for example, and
I put this list together and we had a number of conferences with
the military and other people in the last few weeks through Plains
Radio. Carmen Reynolds is a Colonel in the Army.
The issue is this: If we decided to close the borders immediately;
if we decided to screen everybody with a swab to determine if
they carry a virus, and track them if they show positive for an
Influenza A virus -- which you can do a simple screening test --
you may not get a subtype but you’ll see if they are a carrier of
the virus. If we were then to make certain that, in areas where
there are outbreaks like in Mexico City, we would fly in large
heavy-lift aircraft with existing...
Not drugs. We are not talking about TAMIFLU. TAMIFLU
contains hallucinations, which will hallucinate you, and in some
cases some people are so sensitive they actually... It’s like taking
PCP or Angel dust. It is a very, very serious bad trip. You don’t
want people walking around that are, say military service people,
with body flak jackets on and Scott Air Packs under stress taking
TAMIFLU and hallucinating.
When you give these drugs like TAMIFLU; already H1N1
worldwide is resistant to it. Amantadine, Ramitidine, and
TAMIFLU. These current strains they are saying are sensitive to
it, but in within four days of exposing a population to a
continuous virus, you’ll start seeing resistance show up. So in
other words, if you use it now, you don’t have something to use
on someone who’s dying from a very serious infection. They
have got a resistant strain in their body because two weeks or two
months ago you gave that population TAMIFLU.
What they should be giving are NutriDine, Super Silver or
Allicin. If they simply gave, for example, the average person... if
they took one of our products that is called Better Than Greens
with Allicin. If they simply took 180 mg of allicin, three times a
day, they would probably not get a primary infection.
We have already done a study with ferrets and other animals in
Brazil with high pathogenic Avian flu, and we transferred the
weight on this -- and this is actual studies done last year -- that
one teaspoon of our Super Silver silver salt for an average 70 kg
adult will prevent a primary infection.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
We know the same thing with our troops with our NutriDefense. I
put in the NutriDefense something so that if they are exposed to
anthrax or spores that you cut out 98 percent chance of the
possibility of infection by just taking one NutriDefense per day.
98 percent.
So there’s extremely simple things like personal hygiene, travel...
If every aircraft had a hepa viral filter; if they cleared every
aircraft with the AeroClave system which already exists. There is
a company where it’s available right now. The airlines could gear
up literally today to put it in place. This would die out in a matter
of a week or two and the panic would be over.
If we would fly into countries where there are outbreaks, like
Mexico City, and give these antipathogenics and start making
sure all airliners in different countries use these technologies, the
problem would die out in a month or so. And we would have
some deaths, but we would have it under control.
What I’m concerned about is I think their agenda is they want to
have enough crisis as a cover for the new financial system which
they’re setting up. Because already there’s a contraction of the
world economy and 40 percent of the world’s wealth has
disappeared. That disappearance is also [inaudible] by the
collapsing...
And this is stated -- and I had Joan Veon on my show just a few
days ago -- that the world financial experts at the Bank for
International Settlements that just met in Europe is that the
current world economy can only support 5 billion people but
there are 6.5 billion plus people on the Earth, which means 1.5
billion are “excess population” based on the finances of our
current world economy. They’ve created this crisis so that people
cannot, with a day’s work, get a day’s food. So third world
countries now, with the financial famine; they’re compounding it
because there’s climate shift and that climate shift is going to get
considerably worse.
And this is something I want to say prophetically: Starting this
next month, May and going through to July–August, there’s
going to be a shift in under-oceanic currents in the Southern
hemisphere. The first warning was the explosion of Tonga that
came through the ocean surface with a 7.9 earthquake several
weeks ago.
What’s going to happen is under-oceanic volcanism is going to
change the climate, increase rainfall dramatically in some areas,
in other areas there will be major floods and in other areas there
will be increased and more serious drought. This, by just climate
shift, will cause more food shortages. Crops will be flooded out
because of the change in world air currents. A normal climate
will be out the window.
So when you combine that with a pandemic... And the Baltic Dry
Index now for shipment of manufactured goods as well as food is
at its lowest since the second world war. We have a situation
where they’re purposely compounding it and there could be a
very simple solution. So we need to get these solutions through to
The Powers That Be to say: this could be stopped tomorrow.
We could solve the world’s financial problems by correcting and
making the Glass-Steagall Act. Like, for example, the country of
Canada was much more responsible. They didn’t allow the
84
banking industry to turn it into a casino. We could make sure that
we bring food into the third world countries because when you
have starvation it increases the weakened immune system to
make viruses more aggressive. So if this virus gets into a
population that is starving, it’s going to be transformed into a
more aggressive deadly virus for us as well.
And we need to stabilize the world banking system without
taking away the sovereignty of nations or transferring power to a
bunch of international bankers that are not elected. So everything
we’re doing right now is actually leading us toward more chaos
rather than order and it could be stopped tomorrow, including
stopping this from turning into a true worldwide pandemic where
millions or even billions could die, stabilizing our financial
situation, and then dealing with the food supply by starting to
gear-up food production and supporting it so that there is no
farmers or businesses going out of business.
And we have the proper stabilization of our economy so the
bubble economy, the illegal debt instruments that they have been
circulating, we don’t poor trillions more into the banks that are
doing this. We put them into the debt restructuring as Lyndon
LaRouche has said, and we get rid of these debt instruments. We
put a moratorium on foreclosures of businesses and homes, we
stabilize the food supplies of the third world so that they are not
priced out of the staples that keep them alive, and we maintain
control of international travel so that we don’t allow this
pandemic to shut down the world economy. The chances that it
could shut it down, if we have a major high pathogenic death
rate, is incredibly likely by this fall if we don’t do these measures
now.
KC: Dr. Bill, thank you for that; that’s quite an overview. I have
a couple of questions I want to ask you and we can discuss
whether or not you want to go off the record with the answers or
not.
BD: Sure.
KC: First of all, I’ve had some conversations with Cliff High,
you know who he is?
BD: Yes, Cliff High. I think he is with the Web-Bot [project] or
with Half Past Human. That’s Half Past Human, isn’t it?
KC: Yes, Half Past Human.
BD: Yes.
KC: And, he has said... You know, he actually has quite a bit of
animosity toward you, and he has said that he thinks that you get
a lot of your information from him.
BD: No, I don’t.
KC: And I find that hard to believe myself, but I wanted to give
you a chance to respond to that here if you want.
BD: I only had one conversation with Cliff and I talked to him
once; called him and just: Hey, I’ve heard you on Jeff Rense’s
program. You said some pretty remarkable things that match up
with what I say. And I want to share with him not only my first
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
hand information, like this information I had from the World
Health Organization and other sources that are, if you want to call
it “classified” or the fact that I work with the government, and
also the intuitive side. And he was a little upset about that. He
said: I don’t want to talk to you about it. And I said: Okay, that’s
fine.
And that’s my only conversation; he seemed very upset about
that. And, I don’t subscribe to Half Past Human. The only
information I’ve had is the occasional time I’ve been able to
listen to him on Coast-to-Coast radio or Jeff Rense. That’s it. So,
if there’s something...
KC: Okay, well he has told us that actually you had a doctor or
somebody giving you that information.
BD: No, I don’t.
KC: Okay.
BD: No I don’t.
KC: It’s very strange that when he...
BD: Now, why would he say that?
KC: I don’t know. I actually don’t know.
BD: Why would he say that? That’s kind of strange. Here’s the
fact, okay? What he’s doing basically is mining information from
the global subconscious. In a sense what he’s doing is; it’s in a
sense, almost like a... the best way to describe it would be a
syntactical and emotive language global subconscious Ouija
board. I guess that would be the best way. And he can pull up
some information.
There’s a bow shockwave of reality that bounces back toward the
consciousness so that, in a subconscious way, people know. For
example, people have precognition that there may be an accident
or a relative that is sick or dying. So he’s just pulling that
information out. There’s many intuitives, whether it’s people like
my friend John Boncore, who is a Mohawk prophet.
There’s people in all kinds of intuitives and psychics, and people
that use remote viewing that can see events coming. But as I tell
people, they’re not solids; they’re liquids. They’re not yet frozen.
There’s a degree of choice and timeline which is why I’m doing
this presentation right now.
We, as a global consciousness, get to choose which of those
timelines. And my job is to act like the guy at the side of the road
where there is a branch in the road and there are no road signs. So
you ask the guide at the side of the road: Which road should I go
down with my little cart?
And I’ll say: Well, you don’t want to go down this road here
because it leads into the bottom of a valley where there’s a jungle
and there’s alligators and wild animals. But over here, ten miles
down the road, there’s a community of nice people. They’ll feed
you, they’ll will give you good shelter, etcetera.
85
That’s what my job is to do. Now, so when I contacted him I’m
not sure why he got so upset about this. It completely boggled me
because I thought: Well, this is really good. We’re having people
from various different... how can I say, mining the information
whether they are psychics or intuitives, or they are doing
something like this, which is looking for a language that’s
embedded into the internet and using these web-bots to be able to
go search for it. So, I thought it was a good thing. I was really
surprised at his response.
KC: He believes you are an agent.
BD: An agent of what?
KC: That you work for the government?
BD: Oh, come on! That’s so ridiculous.
KC: Okay. Now, you’ve worked for the government in the past
though?
BD: No, I was a civilian doctor. I was an occupational doctor.
KC: But in black projects?
BD: No-no. Let me explain here. Yeah, right. Those kind of
accusations you hear all the time. It’s ridiculous. Do they realize
the danger -- the physical danger, the career danger -- that I’ve
gone through in order to tell people the truth? They have no idea.
I’m like a William Wallace, okay?
When I worked in occupational medicine back in the early ’80s,
they made a decision in the government that they no longer
wanted to have a lot of jobs done by people inside the military.
Because they either didn’t have the expertise, they wanted to hire
a company and if they weren’t satisfied with the work that was
done by that company (i.e., medical or contract for specific
things), so they started contracting out; especially during the era
of Bill Clinton.
So what they did, is they contracted for me. And my first major
job for C-Com: to contract C-Com to handle Fort Carson,
NORAD, Falcon Air Force Base, U.S. Space Strategic
Command, the GPS Military-Grade system, and Directed Energy
Weapons. The reason why I was their doctor was simply because
I was their doctor. I took care of people that worked in these
things; worked around these toxic things, worked around rocket
labs, and I was their physician. They were not permitted, most of
these people, to even talk to their colleagues who were in the next
room, let alone the next building. But they would talk to their
doctor.
And the only difference was with me, is that because I have a
technical background in nuclear physics, advanced computing,
electronics, biotechnology; they would share with me. And after
a while, because I’m a talker, they were more interested in what I
would have to say about the bigger picture about what was going
on at their facility, and they were more interested in telling me
their little piece -- that’s very, very compartmentalized -- than
what I would tell them.
KC: Yes, I've heard you say that.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BD: So that’s the reason why I have...
KC: I understand that, but I’m just trying to run these things by
you so that you understand what you’re up against out there.
There seems to be...
BD: I have people who have written books as long as ten years
ago when I spoke at the Prophecy Club, that literally -- I can’t
believe this -- but literally have written a book that I’m the
antichrist. I mean, how foolish! [Kerry laughs] I mean, every day
I put my personal life, my career, everything on the line to be the
whistleblower for...
In fact, I just did an audio for tenth anniversary of Columbine. I
was the examiner for the Englewood Fire Department and the
first young man shot in Columbine outside the restaurant there,
Mark Taylor. I was the exit examiner for the 5 Special Op Team
of the Oklahoma City Memorial Building. I have been trying to
do radial toxicology testing on the World Trade Center debris,
and I’m writing the position paper which I’m going to present at
We Are Change, New York City, on the eighth anniversary of
9/11.
I’ve been told by my radial toxicology colleagues, because I have
advanced training in radial chemistry, that if I order the tests the
Department of Defense and the FBI will arrest me immediately
for requesting the tests of debris which I have from the World
Trade Center. Further proving that they not only used Thermate
and other high explosives, but they used nuclear bombs in the
buildings, okay?
KC: Okay, you know...
BD: People need to realize that I am a whistleblower central.
That’s why my Genesis [Communication Network radio show]...
The number one reason, number one, that I did this is: twelve
years ago, when I spoke at Human Life International in Zurich on
the super-soldier program, which they tried to recruit me to in
1978 at UCLA VA/Wadsworth Hospital and I turned them down,
is because I have the documents and the proof that they were
trying to create a pandemic flu to bring the world, and literally
we are going to enter the new world order with a mask. This is
their plan. I had the documents 12 years ago.
So four years ago when I started my show it was to warn the
people and tell them to get ready because this could be stopped
very easily. We can decide for a future where millions do not
need to die, and the economy does not need to shut down, and we
don’t need to have chaos in our cities.
KC: Okay. You know I appreciate everything that you’ve said
and I was just trying to give you a chance to respond publicly to
all of that, and if you’re willing, we’ll go ahead and release this
part of this.
BD: Yes. Now here’s the thing that is important, okay?
KC: Yes.
BD: People need two things: They need to use their intellect... to
study. And me, I tell them: Don’t believe, just read. Okay? Read
the stuff that is in the open media before they hear me or
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anything that’s here on Project Camelot. And then they need to
be very quiet and very humble, and need to pray and say: Now
was what Deagle saying true? Or what Half Past Human is
saying true, or any other person that’s an intuitive or psychic or a
remote viewer or whatever.
Then they need to follow through with action. Because in my
heart I don’t want our society to shut down. I don’t want people
to die. I don’t want our culture to become a matrix. I don’t want
horror to happen.
We have a timeline where we are getting closer and closer to
where some of these issues become more inevitable if we don’t
change our trajectory, if we don’t change the way we make
choices, not just personally. And we have to stop this backbiting,
this foolishness; and there’s a degree of jealousy, too. I mean, to
be honest with you, I’m a messianic believer, okay? I’m for all
religions that firstly have spirituality and a connection with the
Creator God and the Universe. All, okay?
But I want people to understand there is no room in our modern
world, whether it’s Half Past Human or any of the “Christian,
Jewish, or other churches” for a real prophet, and that’s what I’m
called to speak as. There’s no room. And I can tell you that. They
do not want someone to come in and tell them that I was
supernaturally given a command to go to Zurich, Switzerland and
receive these documents which I didn’t expect to receive. And
then to have a number of events happen so I would be the number
one whistleblower that the flu pandemic was coming.
Even inside the truth movement, I’ve received so much
persecution from even other truthers who believe 9/11 was an
inside job. You would not believe it, okay? But I’m willing to do
the right thing because I have the truth and I have a concern and
care for people.
KC: Okay.
BD: They need to see my heart. And if they are jealous of that,
get over it. I’m not here to play games or egos; I’m here to serve
my Creator God and save my fellow mankind and all living
things on this earth from a horrible end. And that’s where we are
going.
We have to wake up and stop this pandemic, stop the economic
meltdown, stop the State of Israel which is planning with our help
to make a northern attack of nuclear sites and 1250 targets inside
Iran. We already have a dialogue going on. We need to pray, for
example, for President Obama that he will not serve his globalist
masters but he will do the right thing so we can stop Israel.
If any of these one things happen, it’s a perfect storm from hell.
We are going to face a future that is going to be so noxious, so
dangerous -- people can’t imagine what we are facing -- but we
can turn away from it. We do not need to go there.
KC: Thank you, Bill. That’s very, very, very succinct. I would
like to ask you, regarding the Israel situation, you say they have
targets within Iran. When are you saying that they are planning to
attack Iran?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BD: I don’t have a prophetic word but I can tell you from my
military, and also classified sources as well, the Israelis are going
to do a full nationwide war game in June. They’re also, this year
(without a month designated), doing a U.S. Space Command
Anti-Missile Star Wars Weapon Simulation with the United
States and Israel. They do now have TAD, which is Theater Air
Defense. It‘s an advanced Anti-Weapons System, along with the
scalar plasma weapon and the chemical laser systems, able to
knock out missiles that are coming into Israel. The problem is...
KC: You’re saying they are going to do an exercise. When,
exactly?
BD: They’re doing an exercise in June. That’s next month.
KC: And that’s within Israel or with the U.S. and Israel?
BD: Within Israel. Now, there is another game going on with
space command that is supposed to be sometime this year and I
don’t know what month yet, because my sources can’t tell me.
But, the one in Israel is June.
KC: Okay. Within these games sometimes, as what happened
with 9/11, the game becomes a cover for some actual operation
that takes place.
BD: Exactly. So it could occur in June during this game. The
reason we look for it is that in order to do a modern advanced war
you need what’s called air based intelligence, etcetera, which is
why they do supercomputers. They’ve got Space Based GPS.
They have to have all their material in place, so it’s very, very
likely that the attack will occur in June during this war game. If it
doesn’t it’s going to happen from that point to probably the early
fall.
If we permit them to do it, the Strait of Hormuzand I was told this
supernaturally 20 years ago -- the Strait of Hormuz will be cut
off. All the oil which goes to... about 80 percent of it goes to
Asian countries. Indonesia, China, South Korea will loose their
major supply of oil and the world economy will collapse. The
disarray will cause the starvation of a billion people.
This we can avoid if we prevent Israel from making an attack.
There is no need; as the dialogue is already started between
Obama and Ahmadinejad, who is now going to the elections in
the next few weeks. Ahmadinejad is now talking, which is a
miracle. If we do not move toward peace, the war that we are
going to see is not just going to take out people downwind of the
Bushehr reactor, which is 62 tons of Uranium 35, but there is
1250 targets they are going to hit with nuclear weapons including
neutron bombs, bunker busters, and these new advanced, what’s
called plasma warheads, okay?
If they do this, I cannot say that we will not have an exchange of
other weapons. And almost certainly, and this is from actual
sources, there are sleeper agents inside the United States, Canada
and Western world in Britain, that have third generation
bioweapons developed by Russian scientists for the past 18 years
since Glasnost and Perestroika. When these scientists were
starving, the Syrians and Iranians hired them, and they have the
most advanced biological weapons in history. They will make
even the so-called hybrid flu look like it is nothing.
87
So the point is that we can turn back, but we need to hear. The
reason I speak now as a prophet is to tell them: Turn back now
because there is the way of light and safety and peace and the
Coat of Many Colors of Joseph, who is my Father, okay?
Because I’m of the tribe of Ephraim, or Joseph.
KC: Okay, yes. I appreciate that. You have to understand that we
get people... I mean, to call yourself a prophet, this is not unusual.
There are many, many, many people out there right now
considering themselves the same way you consider yourself.
BD: I know. I hear about it all the time. It’s really... it’s
disturbing. Anybody who wants to be a prophet is... how can I
say, it’s a job no one wants to apply for. If you do, it’s because
you are imbalanced. I do not want to do this job. I tried to escape
it many times. Believe me, I have been swallowed in the belly of
the whale.
KC: Okay, well...
BD: I’ve been put in the place of these things. If you want to do
it, it’s like cleaning a latrine while it’s still being used and you
are under it, okay?
KC: Well, Bill, you know Project Camelot could be put in that
same category. We’re actually... All of the people that are trying
to warn the masses, if you will, as to what’s really going on could
be classified as prophets. It’s better if we stay out of the sort of
evangelical perspective of ourselves and kind of, you know...
BD: There’s something I need to clarify. There’s many people
that receive a prophetic word, have an intuitive knowledge, have
a technology that they use...
KC: Absolutely.
BD: ...just like there’s “prophets” that are coming out of the
Hopi Indian tribe and others. But there’s those who “don’t just
operate and receive the prophetic word” now and then, but
operate in the office of the prophet. I have to say this repeatedly
so people understand it: the reason why I’ve been in all these
places is because they needed trust.
There’s lots of things I don’t know, okay? There are lots of areas
I’m not an expert in. But when I speak in an area like this flu or
these wars or other things, I’m speaking in the office of a
prophet. Someone who has the authority and right to say it. And
you need to understand we have a choice now.
KC: I appreciate that. We are going to try to wrap this up right
here now. Bill Deagle has to go as well. So I wanted to thank
you, Dr. Bill Deagle for your willingness to confront and to be
open and talk about issues that are sometimes antagonistic to
yourself. That’s a wonderful trait that you have and I just want to
honor you for that.
BD: Yes, in fact, we actually had a reconciliation; with Donna
and Mark Taylor. I actually spoke with them through a live audio
connection at the tenth anniversary of Columbine. That
negativity, by the way, arose because they had an offer from a
movie company to take the script, which we had been working on
for over a year, into a big movie.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
We didn’t agree on the modus by which it was going to happen.
They had been offered a lot of money and we didn’t want it to be
degraded. We wanted the truth to be brought out rather than to
have it spawn into something else. And that’s all reconciled. So,
out of my discussion with you on that...
KC: Okay, well, thank you for that.
BD: ...so I can thank Project Camelot. Now I want to say one
thing. There’s a chorus -- it’s not just myself -- there’s a chorus
of people who truly are called to speak prophetically that need to
rise up and say the truth, after being very humble and making
sure they don’t have a personal agenda, that we need to turn back
from this. We have people like I’m going to have on the program
shortly, John Boncore, who’s a Mohawk prophet. He was
prophesized hundreds of years ago by his own people.
There’s Hopi prophets, there’s Jewish prophets, there’s Christian,
there‘s a list. There’s people all over the world that are, literally I
call The Coat of Many Colors. Every skin color, every nation,
every religion who are starting to know it’s a time of decision for
mankind. We need to turn back now or we’re going to face a
whole confluence of super storms of economic, climate shift,
biological warfare, and evil.
For example, there’s very good evidence from Len Horowitz, and
I believe he is correct, that the World Health Organization, the
CDC and Novavax are behind this latest release of this
weaponized plague that’s been released in Mexico City. The
globalists have published in their documents that they want to
reduce the world population. We do not need to go there.
We can have an alternative future where mankind is safe. Where
people have true human rights. Where people have the right to
grow and to believe and to have safety and healthcare and food
and not be exposed to toxic poisons or electromagnetic radiation
and have some degree of autonomy. But we are heading toward a
world where autonomy is going to be a thing of the past, where
mass starvation and violence are going to rule, and I don’t want
to see us go there. But we need to turn back now because we
have a matter of months, not years left, to make that turn.
KC: Okay, thank you, Bill. Bill Ryan, is there anything you want
to say before we end this here?
BR: I just want to say thank you very much Bill. There’s total
consistency with everything you’re saying now and everything
that a lot of people have heard or watched you say in your 2006
Granada Forum lecture. We have a team of transcribers who are
transcribing that, and that’s nearly finished now, and we are
going to make that available to you as soon as we can for
publication on your site and everywhere, so the whole thing’s
88
Google searchable; translatable. We want to get this information
out there and support you fully in everything you’re doing.
BD: Well, I want to pray for people and for you, too -- both you,
Kerry, and Bill -- for the wonderful work you’re doing to try to
get people to realize that we are co-creators of our own future.
We’re not a victim of the future; we are the co-creator, but we
also have to take our scepter. We have to also realize that if
someone dies in a third world country that’s an untouchable in
India, or someone in Mexico City that’s living on a garbage heap
dies, we die. Some portion of us dies too.
If we allow the use of depleted uranium weapons to kill little girls
in the Gaza City by Israeli troops, or we allow nuclear weapons
to drop on the Bushehr reactor and downwind millions die from
radiation poisoning, we die too. If we can feel that connectedness
in spirit, as a cell in the body of mankind, we would repent and
we’d turn back from that.
KC: Okay thank you. Very well put. All right, I’m going to close
this down then. Thank you very much, Dr. Bill Deagle.
BD: Thank you Kerry, I really appreciate it. Thank you Bill
Ryan and God bless everyone. Now’s the time to have a
backbone to stand up for the truth and to pray and to be humble
and call on our creator to stand us up on our feet so that we can
tell the truth to others that we have to turn back from war, from
pestilence, and from economic greed and the idea that we need to
reduce the world population with lies like a carbon tax...
KC: Absolutely.
BD: ...and all these other evils.
KC: All right thank you very much.
BD: Take care.
KC: Bye.
BD: Bye-bye.
BR: Thank you, Dr. Bill.
BD: You’re welcome. Bye.
.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com

Project Camelot:
Erich von Daniken
Interlaken, Switzerland, May 2009

BR: It is presenting the truth to the people who have not been
told the truth by the politicians, by the scientists...

EvD: They lie anyhow.

BR: ...by the teachers, or even by their parents because they don't
know any better.

EvD: I know.

BR: And what we're trying to put in place is an alternative

education to... as you said, the title of your new book is called…?

EvD: History Is Wrong.

BR: History Is Wrong. And history is wrong.

[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them EvD: I know it. At least quite a lot of it is wrong.
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
BR: Quite a lot of it is wrong.
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the EvD: Some scientists are lying to us. Of course, the majority are
audibles were left in the square brackets.] nice and integrity personalities, but some of them are lying.

BILL RYAN (BR): I want to thank you on behalf of everybody BR: Yes and the guys who really know what's going on are all
who's learned such a lot from all your work all your life. You've working for the governments.
done a fantastic job and I really wanted to tell you this.
EvD: Of course. [laughter]
ERICH von DANIKEN (EvD): Yes, and, in the meantime, I am
74 years old, but the Gods still love me, okay? [laughter]

BR: The Gods are taking good care of you. [laughter]

EvD: The Gods still love me, and I continue writing books. So, in
total, I have, at the moment, 32 books on the market, and I'm just
writing one. In the United States, my newest one is called History
is Wrong. This one will be on the market in about four months.

BR: That's great. History is Wrong is a great title.

EvD: It's a great book, too.

BR: Could you remind me, which year did you publish Chariots
BR: Yes. of the Gods?

EvD: What is your topic? EvD: 1968.

BR: My topic is exactly the same as yours. BR: 1968.

EvD: Great. Okay. I should have that. EvD: That was in German language.

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: In German. [Bystanders converse in German, distract EvD and BR]

EvD: It came in the United States in 1969. BR: Ah, maybe we could just step outside.

BR: Okay. I bought it in England... [EvD and BR walk to a cafe]

EvD: Oh, okay. BR: Here’s a table. That's wonderful. This is great.

BR: ...when I was a little kid. That was the book that got me EvD: So the park is now open in summer for the moment,
started on a journey that’s now helped me, and my friends, help a because in winter it was absolutely not a good business.
lot of other people.
BR: Right.
EvD: In the meantime both of us have become not only older, but
also wiser.

BR: Exactly! [laughter]

[Erich and female voices converse in German]

BR: Someone now has to translate for me.

EvD: Yeah, I’m sorry. [laughter] I just asked them if they saw all
the shows.

BR: Oh, no, we haven’t seen them all yet.

EvD: She said that she saw Nazca. That’s important.

BR: Nazca? That’s...

EvD: You saw Megastorms?

EvD: For the moment we just do it for summer, but then in
VOICE: Yes November we have to decide what to do, re-open it for the whole
year or not. We need new innovation, we need new stuff, new
material, which means a lot more money. It’s always a question
EvD: Okay. Vimana, here? India? of money.

VOICE: Yes. [background chatter] BR: Oh yeah. Sure.

BR: I have some questions to ask you. EvD: Most people love money. [laughs]

EvD: Yes, please.
BR: And all of this is being recorded – with your assumed
permission – because we'd love to put this out on the Internet. It
would be our pleasure to give you some publicity here.
EvD: Thank you. We need publicity for this project now.
BR: But is this now open -- just for the summer, or is it reopening
permanently? What’s the plan here that you have?
EvD: No. In the past it was wrong to shut the park down. We
should never have closed it, because such a project is like a big
restaurant – you need time. You need at least 4 or 5 years, so the
public outside of Switzerland knows that such a park exists.
BR: Well, that’s right. Are you trying to reach the children? Or
are you trying to reach the people like us, who’ve asked questions
all our lives?
EvD: Okay, yes, we reach the children for the children’s part of
the park. But for the shows, I rather want the adults; the people
who think. You know, we have a motto here, and the motto is in
German on the expression of “Da stounden bena leirman.” [Ed
note: This is a rough translation; a better one is needed]
Mystery Park is not a place where someone dictates and says: I’m
having right. This is the true answer. Mystery Park is the place
which ends always with question marks.
BR: Okay.

BR: Yes.

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
EvD: When you be careful on the earphones, whatever you see –
you see side attractions or main attractions – it always ends with
question marks.
BR: So, that’s why it’s called the Mystery Park and not the park
that has all the answers.
EvD: If you would give the answers, it’s no more mystery.
BR: I understand. Yes, exactly. But, for yourself, personally, do
you feel after all these years that you’ve got answers; that you’ve
been...
EvD: Of course. I know very, very clearly what happened.
BR: Tell us.
EvD: A thousand… [Ed note: unclear] [Bill laughs] Thousands of
years ago the ETs were here, evidently, and there was an artificial
mutation, changing our genes. So we are partly terrestrials
because we are like evolution, and partly we are extraterrestrial.
BR: And what’s happening now, Erich? Because there is a big
change in consciousness happening on the planet right now.
Everyone is aware of it. You must be aware of it. What’s going
on now?
EvD: Well, these ETs, when they left us, they promised to return
and they will return. Now we have one possible date – that’s this
Maya date, you know – 2012.
BR: How important do you feel that is?
EvD: Not very.
BR: Mm-hm.
EvD: I’m absolutely sure they will return, but you cannot fix the
date, not even with the Maya calendar because the Maya calendar
-- you have first to calculate into our calendar, and this
calculation is wrong.
BR: Yes.
EvD: If the starting point is wrong, then the end result is wrong,
too. Finally, we are not even sure if our own calendar is correct.
91
BR: Yes.
EvD: We count 2009. That means 2009 since the birth of Christ.
But if this is wrong, the figure 2009 is wrong, too. Maybe they
started 30 years later with counting. It’s all a mess.
But one thing is definitely sure: They will return. They promised
it. We have written reference to that. They will definitely return
to Earth, and every culture in the past had this expectation of the
re-coming of someone – be it the Maya, the Inca, the Egyptians –
they all were expecting somebody.
BR: Or even The Second Coming, which is a kind of metaphor.
EvD: Yes. Exactly. And today we have the same thing. I mean,
the Christians, they wait for the re-coming of Jesus Christ. The
Muslim community waits the return of the Mahdi. The Jewish
society awaits the return of the Messiah.
So now, obviously not every religion can be right. Some of them
must be wrong, and I say they’re all wrong.
BR: Now, when you say that they’re going to return, you mean
they’re going to return openly.
EvD: Yes.
BR: Because, of course, they’re here now. I’m sure we agree on
that.
EvD: This will be a shock. We call it The Shock of the Gods.
[laughs]
BR: The shock of the Gods… that would be another great title for
a book.
EvD: So many people... I have in German a book: Der Gotter
Schlag. which is not exactly but... [Ed note:A rough translation]
BR: Oh! Okay.
EvD: [to surrounding group] But now listen, it’s much more
important you go to see every show! [laughter] Now it’s 14 hours
and what?
BR: It’s about 14:30.
EvD: Well, at 3 o'clock there’s Orient. At 3:15, Nazca. 15:30:
Maya. Have you seen Maya?
BR: Yes, we’ve seen Maya.
EvD: [reading show schedule] Astonishing! Challenge. You have
not seen Challenge. Okay.
FEMALE VOICE IN GROUP: Are you satisfied about
everything that you’ve done in your life? Because it’s a
wonderful park.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
EvD: No, not everything. I’m satisfied about my books. We have
a total edition of about 62 million copies.
BR: In many different languages, eh?
EvD: Yeah, in 30 languages, which is not bad. So, that really
means you bring people to think, you are moving something. But
of course, most of the people on this planet, they don’t want to
know what we declare, what we say.
EvD: That is true.
BR: …back in the 1960s.
EvD: 1968, yes…
BR: And because you had a tough time when you started your
book, it’s made it much easier for other people to follow. It’s like
the guys who go into the jungle first of all, you know?

BR: Yes.

EvD: And some parts of the scientific community are not

interested at all. They call it all: it’s all shit, it’s all garbage.

BR: Yeah. But it’s easier now than it was when you started 30,
40 years ago.

EvD: It is. Forty years ago, even 20 years ago, I was just
ridiculed all over.

BR: Yes.

EvD: In the meantime, the situation has changed. Maybe it’s a

respect of my work or my age, and some of the clever people --
they start to realize that I’m probably not so wrong. [laughs]
BR: Well, I think Graham Hancock has probably learned a great
deal from you.
EvD: I know him very well.
BR: You know him well. Because he’s taken your work further,
hasn’t he?
EvD: Ya, ya, of course. Zecharia Sitchin, too... others. Many
others. We know each other. We all know each other’s work.
BR: Yes.
EvD: Ya, it takes some generations before you change the mind
of the people.
EvD: Of course. But, you know, I had the manuscript of the
Chariots of the Gods... [speaks in German] The manuscript was
finished in 1966 already, and I sent it to 20 German publishers
and Swiss publishers. They all rejected it. They all sent the
manuscript back with the usual blah, blah, blah: It’s not
scientific; it’s not the way we can publish it; it’s not belonging to
our program, and so on.
Finally, I was lucky. I was a manager of a hotel at that time, a
first class hotel, and in my hotel I had an editor of the big
German newspaper, and he said: Hey, I know one of the
publishers. We could phone him. And he phoned, so finally I was
lucky to get Chariots of the Gods published in Germany.
The book was already published here... after three weeks it was
number one on every bestseller list. Then came the United States,
England, and so on.

BR: It’s a big team effort, I think. BR: Yes. It was like the right thing at the right time, wasn't it, in
some ways?
EvD: Exactly. There’s another man here. Okay. Three men
among all this... EvD: I was never calculating the right time. I have been accused
lately that I did it just on purpose at that time to make money.
That’s all garbage! The manuscript was finished two years
[laughter; crosstalk]
earlier. I just could not find a publisher.

BR: It’s always the women who are more aware. [laughter] You
BR: Sure, sure. But it’s nice to be right because you must have
understand that.
sold millions of copies of that.

EvD: Yes. I understand that.

BR: But things are changing, Erich, and it’s a team effort. One of
the reasons why I wanted to meet you was to thank you, as I said,
because you were one of the people who really got this ball
rolling…
92
EvD: Yes, we have sold millions of copies, but I made not
millions of money. [Bill laughs] Sometimes you have a year and
you earn 600,000 Swiss francs, which is brilliant, but at the same
year you just spent 600,000 Swiss francs for some expeditions
and helicopters and jungle stuff and measurements. So the money
comes in and the money goes out.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: Yes. Yes. So in the lines they start with gigantic figures of fishes and
monkeys and spiders and birds. Anyhow, but the main thing is
EvD: But we are working scientifically. In the kiosk there, you they will return. I’m sure about this. That’s the changing.
know, in the shop, there is a leaflet only in German language
[says something in German]. Something is wrong in Nazca. It’s People like you, people like me, maybe people like them, we
only in German language. You can’t release it. So we have given have a sense for this. We have a feeling.
order to the Technical University in Dresden to make certain
measurements in Nazca and the result is absolutely crazy. BR: Oh, yeah.

BR: What do you mean? Can you explain that? EvD: We know that something is coming.

EvD: For example, under the lines we found very strong BR: That’s true.
magnetic fields. You can measure them, you know exactly – it’s
two-and-a-half meters deep in the ground, but you have no
possibility to dig there. It is all under terrible control. If you just EvD: This is not just imagination.
take a little stone away, you are under arrest.
BR: It’s why I’m here this lifetime.
We find a change of the electric fields. If I put 220 volts in here
and I had a measurement instrument and I measure it here, so EvD: It has to do with our genetic code, with the information
how is the current flowing? [says something in German] And we which we have in us.
have made fifty points in the desert, and in the desert, of course,
there is no electric flow because sand is an isolator, like ceramic,
for example.

BR: Sure.

EvD: But on the lines the flow of the electric currency was 8,000
times higher than just next to it in the desert. You find all this in
this booklet with the pictures; with the measuring that it takes.

BR: What’s your own theory about the Nazca lines, Erich?
Because it’s a real mystery. I mean, that is a real mystery.

EvD: Yes. I’m sure there were extraterrestrials, not in the sense BR: Sure. Are you optimistic for the future of the human race?
that they needed an [asterisk?]. They don’t need an [asterisk]. There’s a big question for you.

BR: Sure.
EvD: There was some sort of machine coming down, like a
shuttle, and they were looking for raw material. I don’t know
what sort of raw material, uranium, copper, or whatever.
They were looking for raw material and they were digging away
the raw material, and the natives could not understand what was
going on. The natives were afraid. They were thinking these gods
were coming down.
And only after the extraterrestrials left again – so to say, when
their tank was full – they had some lines on the ground and they
see there the gods made these lines. And other natives, they
started to produce lines themselves.
EvD: That’s a big question. Nobody knows. Of course we will
survive. All humanity will never be destroyed, even if we have
some catastrophes and so forth. Some will survive and then we
continue, the next generation.
[laughter]
BR: So, the game is not over yet.
EvD: The game is never over. The game continues all the time.
BR: Exactly. Thank you so much.
EvD: Just read my book! She read it here, and go to the Nazca.

BR: So they were imitating the gods. [overlapping voices] [applause]

EvD: Imitating the gods. And finally a priest had a good idea.
They always have good ideas. They said: We have to show them
signs up there. We have to show them that we are here.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the transcripts that you find on
both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for
your enjoyment and pondering.**
93
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com

Project Camelot:
Bill Ryan - A New World - If You Can Take It
Zurich, Switzerland, July 2009
 

This is Ruth Huber. Ruth is one of the most important people

here, not only because she’s played a huge role in bringing this
conference together, but also because she’s one of the key
translators.

I’m trying to embarrass her. [laughter & applause] Okay.

Some people have understandably thought that this was a Project

NOTE: Ruth Huber's alternating German translation has not been
included in this transcript. Only her English comments are
shown, but she played a prominent role in making the material
accessible to the German language speakers in the audience.
Start of Lecture
Bill Ryan: So, are we on? This is it.
Ruth Huber (Translator): I think so. We can start.
Bill: All right. Is there anyone else to come in the room here?
Camelot conference. It’s not a Project Camelot conference; it’s a
Swiss Ground Crew conference.
We’ve been receiving emails from all over the world, and, in a
moment, we’ll go through what countries you all are from
because a lot of people have traveled a long way.
A lot of people write to us and they say: Hey, I’m part of the
Dutch Ground Crew, or the German Ground Crew, or the
Spanish Ground Crew. It’s important to realize that the word
Ground Crew, the phrase “ground crew” actually came from
George Green.

All right. So, everybody; welcome to the conference. We’re

George Green isn’t here but he actually has played quite a big
delighted that you're here, and that you’ve made the journey from
part in this conference, although his role is sort of invisible.
wherever it is you've come from.

This conference actually started just before we went – that is,

The first thing I want to do - I think you all know who I am, Bill
when I say “we” I mean Kerry Cassidy and myself from Project
Ryan from Project Camelot, but a member of the Swiss Ground
Camelot – went to Ecuador in January of this year, and one of the
Crew. I’m very, very proud to be part of this team. [applause]
Swiss team here, who is somewhere in the audience – I dare not
identify her because she’s got a lot to answer for…
There’s something very important to say here about that, and I do
thank you for giving that spontaneous applause to this team. This
Ruth: I didn’t get that.
is not a professional conference. In English, the opposite of
professional is “amateur”. For those of you, who know Latin,
know that the word amateur means people who love what they Bill: You didn’t get that. [laughter] One of the Swiss team here,
do. before we went to Ecuador - and she’s in the audience here. I’m
not going to identify her, but everything that’s happening here is
all her fault [laughter] – said to me: When you see George Green
We’re not doing this for money. Don’t ever organize a
in Ecuador, can you invite him back to Switzerland? Because we
conference for money! It’s not going to work. But you might just
would love to have him here.
want to organize a conference because you love doing it, and I
would highly recommend that.
Now, George Green had all kinds of other plans and he’s a busy
man and he wasn’t able to come to Switzerland this summer, but
Actually, before I start talking about the history of this
when we were talking with Brian O’Leary – Dr. Brian O’Leary,
conference, I want to introduce my alter ego.
he’s here in the front row. You’ll be hearing from him on Sunday
and also tomorrow evening.

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
[to Brian] Stand up, stand up, please. [applause]
Brian O’Leary is a very wonderful man and it’s my privilege, I
think, to be able to call him a good friend. He said: Hey, I’ll come
to Europe. I climbed the Matterhorn when I was a young man, I’d
love to see it again.
So we had this idea of this little group of people, and we’d have
Brian maybe in this little room, and we’d share some coffee
together and he’d tell some stories to us. And then, someone else,
who’s also in this room and who we shouldn’t identify, said: You
know what? It would be really wonderful to invite Dan Burisch to
Switzerland.
I said: There’s absolutely no chance of that happening. That’ll
never happen. Then I had an afterthought, and I thought: Well, I
could just send a mail, it’s very easy to send a mail.
And he said: Okay. I’ll come to Zurich. No problem. [laughter]
I don’t know whether Dan is in this room right now, I think he’s
coming later. Is Dan here? No. No he’s not. Dan’s coming later
because he’s still on American Pacific Time, which means that
he’s just sort of starting to feel like it’s breakfast. [laughter]
That’s why he’s on this evening.
I know that an awful lot of you have come here specifically to
hear his story. And I’ll say a little bit more about that in the next
hour or so because I want to give Dan as much of an introduction
as I can because it’s a very complicated story.
Then what happened was that we had Brian, and we had Dan.
Then Dan said: Hey, I want Marci to come. Then people were
saying: Well, you can stand up and talk to some people, too. And
then, suddenly, we had a conference. [laughter]
We invited David Wilcock; he’s never been to Europe before. So
this is really quite a special event.
Yesterday evening, for quite a long time late into the night --
Dan, Marci, David and myself -- had a two hour video
conversation, which was so interesting that we practically had to
drag David and Dan out of their seats at midnight because it
could have gone on until daylight. That was the first time the four
of us have actually been in the same place to talk about a lot of
this material together and that’s been recorded on video, and that
will be released as soon as possible; it’s interesting stuff.
Now, before I dive into this interesting stuff, I just want to
acknowledge the people who have taken up a lot of time, spent
quite a bit of money and demonstrated a huge amount of
commitment to be here this weekend. We have people here from
25 different countries. I just want to read these out to you because
it’s quite impressive. Every time I look at this list, I’m impressed.
It’s a list, in alphabetical order. I’m not going to embarrass you,
but I do invite you that, if I read out your country, I would love
you to raise your hand, so we can actually see that you’re here. I
won’t ask you to stand up or tell us what your real name is, or
anything like that. [laughter] And all of you agents in this
audience, we hope you have fun and it’s all cool. [laughter] We
hope you have a good time.
95
Because this is in alphabetical order, who’s come here from
Australia?
Ruth: Ah! [applause]
Bill: Isn’t that amazing? That blew me away. These are not rich
people, but they’re committed people. They have a different kind
of wealth.
So we won’t talk about Cricket, okay? [laughter]
Ruth: We won’t talk about...?
Bill: That doesn’t translate into German. [laughter] Okay, and
you don’t have to give each other rounds of applause, because
that all wastes a lot of energy, but Austria is the next one.
All right. Good. Belgium? All right. Canada. Who’s from
Canada? We know we’ve got a couple people from Canada;
maybe you’re shy or maybe you’re late, but you’ve paid.
[laughter]
Croatia? Okay, wonderful. The Czech Republic? Denmark?
Okay. Ecuador.
Ruth: Hey! [applause & laughter]
Bill: France? Great Britain? A lot of people from Germany, I
think. Israel? Italy? Luxembourg? Malta? We’ve got a large
contingent from the Netherlands.
Ruth: Wow! [applause]
Bill: It’s a small country full of very smart people, just like the
Swiss. [laughter] Okay, Norway? Poland? Portugal? Slovakia?
Slovenia? Spain? Sweden? Switzerland? Alright…
Ruth: It feels like the Eurovision Song Contest.
Bill: Eurovision Song Contest. [laughter] Absolutely, yes!
And… the USA. [applause] We were going to have somebody in
America, actually living in China, he was going to come. Some
strange things have happened to some of the people who’ve been
intending to come to this conference. Now, we’re not going to
ask anyone to share any details here, but I bet that there are some
people here who had to overcome some last-minute problems to
get here.
The guy from China couldn’t make it, because his son had been
kidnapped by his ex-wife! We hope that nothing like that
happened to you guys, but we’ve had our fair share of interesting
incidents.
Ruth: Oh, yeah. [laughter]
Bill: Okay. George Green coined this phrase “The Ground
Crew” and there’s a wonderful little book -- it’s a free eBook --
which is available on his website. Actually, it’s a series of four
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
books and the fourth book is called Messages For The Ground
Crew. I highly recommend that you read this.
It’s a little book that George tells a very interesting story that it’s
basically a channeled book; he didn’t write it, it just came
through his fingers. This was a message basically from a group
who he identified as the Pleiadians. The message in this book was
that we may not have a lot of time to fix things up here; that the
Earth is in trouble, the human race is in trouble.
The story doesn’t have to have an unhappy ending, but there’s
quite a lot of work to do and someone’s got to do it. This book,
this little book, the Messages For The Ground Crew, was like a
calling to people who considered themselves to be the people
who were going to do the work if nobody else did.
It’s a very interesting situation, because I’m quite sure that a lot
of people in this room -- maybe everyone in this room -- you
might not actually consider yourself to be a totally normal human
being. [laughter]
Now, I’m not going to ask you to hold up your hands and admit
to being really strange, but I’ll try the opposite. Is anyone willing
to hold up their hand and think that they’re really normal?
[laughter] We have two people. Maybe you’re in the wrong
conference. [laughter]
I’m quite sure that there are a lot of people here who believe, or
who know, or have recalled, or are recalling that they’re here this
lifetime for a purpose. My friend and colleague, Kerry Cassidy, is
organizing a conference in Los Angeles in September and the
title of that conference is Awake and Aware. That was her idea,
and it’s a pretty good title, I wish I’d thought of it.
But there are a lot of people here who are awake and aware.
Two weekends ago, we had the great pleasure and privilege – it
was an extraordinary weekend, actually – of meeting somebody
called Dr. Pete Peterson. I’ll say a little bit about that here, then
more in my workshop on Sunday morning.
One of the many things that Pete Peterson told us was that, as far
as his research had led him to understand, 15 percent of humans
had extraterrestrial DNA that could be directly identified. The
same man told us, because of some things that he has a lot of
experience of in his career, that those same fifteen percent are
resistant to being mind controlled.
The implications of this are very, very interesting. It implies that
it may be quite hard to wake up 85 percent of the population.
This is across all races and nationalities. But the 15 percent are
waking up and I think that everyone in this room is going to be
part of that group.
As I kind of put these pieces together, this is really what this
grouping called the Ground Crew are, or may be. It’s not just a
grass roots movement. [to Ruth] Do you know what I mean by
'grass roots'?
Ruth: Not really.
96
Bill: Not just in the public, it’s not just a public movement by the
person in the street, the ordinary person. There are people on the
inside. There are people on the inside of the military of the
intelligence services, even in politics.
Military intelligence and politics, and these are good guys as
well. There are quite a lot of them. We’ve met some of them, and
they’re doing what they can from the inside to change things.
What this conference is about – well, let me start that sentence
again. One of the things this conference is about; it’s helping to
form what Rupert Sheldrake called a morphic field.
Or, to change the metaphor, we’re trying to create a wave, or
we’re trying to get a snowball rolling. And we’re not alone in
here because we know that a lot of you guys are doing everything
that you can in your own countries, in your own ways.
There is a real movement here, there’s a real awakening, a lot of
people becoming more aware. A lot of people are talking about it.
Almost all of you will be on the Internet a lot and it’s being
talked about and this is a real phenomenon.
David Icke is talking about it; David Icke was one of the first
people to really start shaking people awake back in the early
1990s.
In the early 1990s, David Icke was talking about what David
Wilcock calls Illuminati politics. He felt that his mission was to
talk about a lot of startling and incredible information about what
really is happening in the world. We had the privilege of talking
with him in February of this year, personally, and what he wanted
to talk about then was the role of consciousness.
And this is really the theme of this conference, although there’s a
lot of interesting stuff that we can talk about. We can talk about
Illuminati politics and we can talk about high technology, too.
There’s a lot of very interesting stuff. We may have somebody in
this room who’s been off-planet, for example, and I’m not going
to ask them to raise their hand unless they want to. [laughter] It’s
not him.
There is a lot of – in English, we use the euphemism – there’re a
lot of sexy things we could talk about. But what we really want to
talk about is the important stuff, and the important stuff is how
we can all work together to create a better world.
Hence, the title of this conference, which is: A New World, If You
Can Take It. And I didn’t think of that title either. Some of you
probably know that this came from Colonel Philip Corso. He’s
now passed on but he wrote a very significant book called The
Day After Roswell.
The story of how that phrase came into prominence is best told
by his son.
What his son explained was that in 1957 his father was in White
Sands Missile Base in New Mexico. He encountered a disc and a
being in the desert. It was sitting there in the desert and it was
sort of phasing in and out of his field of vision; it was a very
strange phenomenon.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
He was very shocked, and as he looked at this being, this being
contacted him telepathically. The being asked him if he could go
back to the central operations base at White Sands and turn off
the radar. As many of you may know, there’s a lot of evidence
that one of the reasons why the discs crashed in the late 1940s
and early 1950s was because of the high-powered radar that was
being used.
So this little ET asked Philip Corso to turn off the radar so that he
could get out of here and go. And Philip Corso asked the
question: Well, if I help you, what’s – in English we say – what’s
in it for me? What do I get out of this?
This little extraterrestrial - or whatever he was - said: A new
world if you can take it.
So this phrase didn’t come from a human being or, if it was a
time traveler, it didn’t come from a human being from this time.
One of the reasons why I love this phrase – a new world, if you
can take it – is that, in English, it has a double meaning. In
English it can mean two things. It can mean: a new world, if you
can handle it, and the other meaning is: it’s a new world that’s
there for you to take it, if you want to.
Like reaching up for something on a high shelf in a supermarket,
you can take it. In other words, it’s available if we want it.
This, also, is what this conference is about, because it’s about
what kind of future is waiting for us. And even that isn’t an
accurate use of words. The really accurate way of putting it is:
What future will we create for ourselves?
We get into all kinds of paradoxes here because there is strong
evidence - and you will hear much more about this this evening
when we hear from Dan Burisch - the strong evidence that we
have been visited by future humans; human beings from the
future who have returned to try and help and give us some
valuable information.
Even that is not a proper use of words, because just now I said
they’re from the future. But more accurate would be to say
they’re from “a” future. There’s a lot of evidence that we have a
choice of futures. There are alternative futures. There are
different ways in which this whole virtual reality game which
we’re in, this movie which we’re all playing in, could actually
end.
It doesn’t actually end, but we get the idea. [laughter]
Another metaphor would be, it’s like: which path do we want to
take? And one of the things that Dan is going to talk about this
evening with Marci McDowell is how it may be that there is good
news; there is encouraging news, about the fact that, maybe,
things aren’t going to be as bad as we thought.
Now this is incredible information. When I say incredible, I mean
it in the literal meaning of the word, it is “not believable”.
We know that this information is hard to believe. We know that
Dan Burisch is hard to believe. We have people writing to us
every day saying that Dan Burisch is hard to believe and I agree
97
with them. But there’s something very important here that we ask
you, and that is that, if you are in doubt about this story, we ask
you to suspend your disbelief. We ask you not to disbelieve until
you hear the evidence.
I’ve spent a lot of time with this man; it’s been a great privilege
for me to do so. The most recent time I spent with him was
several hours in a car yesterday. We went off to look at the Swiss
countryside and we ended up having another conversation about
his experiences. And he talked about them in great detail on the
video that we recorded with David Wilcock late last night. I will
stake my reputation on the fact that this man is telling the truth.
David Wilcock - who many of you have also come here
specifically to hear - has also been in close touch with Dan since
2003. David is sure that this story is true.
From my personal point of view, the story goes right back to the
beginning of Project Camelot, just over three years ago. It feels
like a very long time ago, but I guess it really isn’t a long time
compared with the many years that many UFO researchers have
been working.
I had only just met Kerry and we just had this wild idea that we
could assist and continue the work of the Disclosure Project,
which we admired, just by talking to people and helping them get
the information out about what they’d experienced. Because, like
many of you, I’m sure, both Kerry and I had been inspired by the
work of Steven Greer when he brought out a number of witnesses
to the Washington Press Club conference; I think it was in May
of 2001.
We admire the work of Steven Greer. We’ve never met him, but
we’re both going to be at the Exopolitics Conference in Spain,
which is in a couple of weekends time, and we have an
arrangement to talk to Steven Greer then, which will be a lot of
fun.
Anyway, in those days, just like many of you – you’ve got blogs,
you’ve got web sites, some of you are journalists; you’re doing
everything you can do to try to get this information out. This is a
big team effort all over the world. We just picked up this little
camcorder that Kerry had - you could fit it in your pocket, it was
tiny - and we just started talking to people. We were amateurs.
In fact, I’ll tell you a joke about this, which is really true. One of
the favorite messages that I ever got in an email was from
somebody last year who wrote to me and said: You know, for
many months, I thought that you must be working for the CIA.
Then he said: I finally realized that you couldn’t be, otherwise
your videos would be a lot more professional. [laughter]
I took that as a compliment; I thought it was very funny. It’s what
Kerry Cassidy calls guerilla film making. [laughter]
So we were just doing our thing and we had the opportunity – it’s
a wonderful opportunity – to meet Dan Burisch, and we were
introduced by Bill Hamilton. We were as enthusiastic to meet
Dan as probably many of you are, and we know this is why
you’re here.
I personally have been interested in his story since 2002 and,
when we met Dan for the very first time, within ten minutes, I
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realized that this was an exceptional man. He was smart, he was
humble, he was funny, he was aware and he was completely
committed to doing the job that he had been told to do, of
releasing this information.
One of the things that he is going to do this evening, when he’s
presenting on this platform, is he will play you the recording of
when he was given his orders to release this information. Because
what Dan is doing is actually part of an unofficial – no, let me
say this again – it’s part of an official disclosure program with
built-in plausible deniability.
Ruth: Will you explain this a little more?
Bill: Absolutely. He was ordered to tell this unbelievable story of
everything that he knew and everything that he experienced. The
person who ordered him was the previous MJ-1 in the Majestic
12 group, and this is John Mike McConnell who, after he stepped
down from that role in Majestic, became the Director of National
Intelligence in the U.S. – the DNI. In other words, he’s the guy
who is the boss of the head of the NSA. He’s the top dog.
Dan will say a lot more this evening about Mike McConnell and
his relationship with Mike McConnell. The unenviable position
that Dan is in is that, if we were to go and find Mike McConnell
and say: Well, what do you think of this story? He would say:
This man is obviously crazy.
So they’re using Dan to disseminate this information into, I
guess, those 15 percent of people who are awake and aware. Dan
will tell you this evening what a tough job that has been. And
he’ll tell you about his reaction when he first received those
orders, which were in October 2005.
And then along came Project Camelot.
Ruth: Will you tell about this reaction now?
Bill: No, that’s for Dan. I mean, that’s Dan’s story. I’m just
preparing the ground.
But… along came Project Camelot. We had no idea what we
were getting ourselves into but, after meeting Dan, it was so
obvious to us that this man had high integrity and the best of
intentions that we, then, became an unknowing part of this
unofficial disclosure movement.
When I asked Dan – ah, this is really quite funny. We met Dan
for dinner, Kerry Cassidy and myself, at the beginning of last
year, about 18 months ago, and I said to him: You know, it’s
amazing, because we’re hiding out in the open. Everyone knows
who I am; I make it obvious who I am; everyone knows my name;
I don’t try and hide.
If the intelligence agencies wanted to stop what we were doing,
they could do it really easily. Every now and then we get a little
bit of trouble, but, basically, we’re being allowed to do what we
do.
I’m not really claiming anything too special here, because those
of you with blogs and web sites, and those of you who are
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journalists and film makers here in this room, no one’s really
trying to stop you, either. Not really.
They could really have just squashed us like flies if they’d
wanted to, and they haven’t done that. So I asked Dan, I said: Is it
possible that Mike McConnell, in his role of Director of National
Intelligence, could be protecting us?
Dan fixed me with a very twinkling eye – Dan has a very
expressive face – and he said: If he was, you would never know
about it, would you?
So that’s my answer – he answered my question – that we are
being allowed to do what we do, because the governments and
the intelligence agencies and the military of this world -- they
have a problem. As we say in English, they’re in over their heads;
they have a huge problem. Many of you will know how they’ve
been trying to handle this problem for many, many years to get
this information out without causing social disruption, panic, or
too much personal shock for people.
A couple of years ago I had a very interesting conversation with
Dr. Hal Puthoff, the famous physicist, the director of the Institute
of Advanced Studies in Austin, Texas. It’s one of my personal
goals to interview him on Project Camelot, by the way.
It was Hal who explained to me – and he’s a very intelligent guy,
he’s a very nice guy, I’m privileged to count him as a friend as
well – and he said that what’s important -- and he was sort of
giving me advice, rather like an uncle -- he said: Don’t try and
prove anything; because, if you come out with documents and
photographs, things that cannot be denied, then people will go
into shock because their reality will be challenged.
If all we’re doing is: we’re telling crazy stories about time travel
and future humans and all this wild high technology, but we can’t
prove anything, then the 15 percent of the awake and aware
people will say: Okay, I thought it was like that and thanks for
confirming it. And the others guys will say we’re all crazy and
they’ll carry on, watching TV and going to church on Sunday
morning. [laughter]
So one of the factors in Project Camelot that has enabled us to
continue operating is that we don’t present proof; we don’t have
any proof. But what we do have is a lot of consistent stories. And,
after we met Dan Burisch in - I think it was July… I think it was
this month in 2006, I actually can’t remember – and we got on
video this wild story. And for those of you who are still not quite
clear about this story, I will just give you the summary version
right now.
That story is that at least some of the so-called extraterrestrials
are actually not just visitors from other planets, but they are time
travelers from other times. Not only are they visitors from other
times, but they’re human beings from a future time; from several
different times in the future, but all on this same timeline.
A whole variety of very strange things happened that caused a
huge amount of complexity and entanglement of the timeline.
But, the essence of what the future humans wanted to
communicate was that, in their history, there was a catastrophe. It
happened round about now and the cause of this catastrophe was
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connected with the passage of the solar system through a region
of energized space.
Again, this is condensed and not intended to be fully, technically
accurate, because the realities are very complicated, but one of
the secret high-tech devices that some of the governments in the
world had was called The Looking Glass. The Looking Glass is a
way of gathering information from different times. It’s a sort of
portal; it’s a window; you can look through it, or into it, and you
can retrieve information from the future.
To make that story even more incredible, this wasn’t given to us
by visiting extraterrestrials; this was back-engineered from
Sumerian cylinder seals. Anyone who knows about the work of
Zecharia Sitchin will understand that the Sumerians received
their civilization and their technical knowledge from the
Anunnaki.
So, as I understand it, the Looking Glass is Anunnaki technology,
which is being used by the American government as a really
useful way of looking ahead to see what was going to happen --
with all the attendant paradoxes and complexities that went along
with that.
One of the things that Dan told us was that many politicians - not
just American politicians - had been told what had been seen for
them in the future. And, as long as they liked what they saw, then
they just acted out the role just like actors in a movie, because
they knew what it was that they were meant to be doing.
Something that Dan said that added further complexity to this
story was that the Roswell crash was also a visit from time-
traveling future humans and that that was a genuine accident.
One of the immediate problems that resulted from that was that,
in the late 1940s, the Americans were experimenting with time-
travel technology that they did not understand. If you start
experimenting with technology like that, and you don’t know
what you’re doing, you’re going to get yourself in a real mess.
A part of that is something that David Wilcock, who’s just joined
us in this room – David, nice to see you [applause] – David’s
talking for much of the day tomorrow and one of the things that
he may or may not refer to is that a number of years ago, he was
sitting in a restaurant, occupying himself by reading one of Peter
Moon’s books about the Montauk Project.
At that time, David thought that the Montauk Project was a pretty
crazy story and was very unlikely to be true. And this other guy
was over at this other table in this restaurant and saw him reading
the book. He came over to David and said: Do you mind if I join
you? He said: What do you think of that book? David said: It’s a
crazy story; I’ve got nothing else to read right now.
If I’m misrepresenting this story, David, I apologize, but this is
the essence of it.
David Wilcock: I actually told him it was bullshit. [laughter]
Bill: David doesn’t pull any punches. This guy came over to
David and said: Well, actually, maybe it’s not just bullshit,
because I can tell you some things about this story.
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This was somebody who David then got to know over a period of
quite a long time really very well, and he called him Daniel,
which is not his real name. Daniel said that at least the first of
Peter Moon’s series of Montauk books was essentially quite true.
And David’s a pretty smart guy, so actually, he started listening.
But he never published any of that information; he kept it to
himself.
This is where these different testimonies start to come together.
Because, after we had personally heard this story from Dan
Burisch, we then met a guy who we have given the pseudonym
to, of Henry Deacon.
Many people think that these people we bump into, that,
somehow, they’ve been planted, or it’s all been engineered, or
it’s all been choreographed in some way. But, rather like David
meeting Daniel in the restaurant, our meeting Henry really was
quite an accident.
When Kerry and I met Henry for the first time, it was in a very
noisy Pizza Hut. The first thing Henry did was, he took out his
cell phone, put it on the table and took out the battery, because
cell phones can be used as listening devices, even if they’re
turned off. And Henry started talking about an enormous amount
of fascinating information that included the mention of time
travel and Montauk.
Now, I’m English and I’m not quite so expressive as David is, so
I didn’t actually use the word bullshit, but I was very surprised,
and I said: Are you saying that the Montauk project is real?
Henry said that we shouldn’t call it the Montauk project; there
were Montauk projects – in the plural – and that the Americans
have been messing around with time-travel technology for many,
many years and had created all kinds of paradoxes and problems.
And every time they tried to fix it, they made it worse.
I asked Henry if he’d heard of Dan Burisch’s story, because I
immediately thought that there must be a correlation here and
Henry had not heard of Dan. So we said: Well look, this sounds
like the same sort of stuff. Watch our video and do get back to us
because we’d love to know what you think.
Three weeks later, Henry got back to us and he said: I can
confirm Dan Burisch’s story, timelines and all.
That really made us sit up and take notice of this stuff.
Intuitively, we had strongly felt that this was the heart of the
problem, but it was very valuable to have this coming at us from
two different sources, who we’d met and spent time with
personally.
After we published this information from Henry on our web site,
then David Wilcock contacted us, and we hadn’t previously been
in contact with him at all. David said: This information is really
important, because it’s the first confirmation I have heard of
what my source, Daniel, told me, which I have never published.
Then we met David and we did an interview with him.
Ruth: That was the first meeting with David?
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Bill: Yes, that was the first meeting with David.
David told us a lot of the stuff that Daniel had shared with him
during the time that they’d spent together.
Therefore, what I want to say is like an adapted version of
something that Bill Cooper said – William Cooper, very well
known to many of you -- he said this back at the end of the
1980s. What Bill Cooper said in a very famous lecture, which is
still available on the Internet, he said: You cannot make sense of
geopolitics in the world without including the
UFO/extraterrestrial issue. He said: You have to understand that
stuff and accept its reality in order to understand what’s
happening in the world.
I can take that one step further, because you can’t make sense of
the UFO/extraterrestrial question without accepting and taking
into account time travel. It’s deeply connected with many of the
problems that we currently face. And while talking about the
technicalities of time travel and all of the extraordinary stories –
this isn’t what I’m planning to do here and it’s not actually what
this conference is about – we can’t talk about the future without
talking about time.
Over and over and over again there are hundreds -- if not tens of
thousands -- of accounts from people who have had contact with
ETs, saying that there’s a very important time for us all ‘round
about now. Some of these – let me call them visitors – some of
these visitors have said to the people that they’ve been
communicating with: You’re in a lot of trouble. Not them
personally -- they’re talking about the human race.
Some of them have talked about some pretty unpleasant
possibilities that might be in front of us, like warnings. Others
have said that there’s the possibility of a golden, wonderful future
for the human race. And one of the things that this conference is
about; it’s about presenting this is a choice for all of us.
One of the things that I’d like to play just before the break, which
is happening in five minutes – do we have intention to play the
audio? In a moment - only when I say play - I want to play an
audio clip that’s a one-minute audio clip. It’s nothing especially
secret, but it’s very interesting and important, in my personal
view.
This is an audio clip of Bill Birnes. This was before he became
famous on UFO Hunters. But Bill Birnes is the editor of the
American UFO Magazine. He’s done a lot of research for many,
many years; was the person who worked with Colonel Philip
Corso to write the book The Day After Roswell.
He was on the American radio program Coast to Coast AM
talking to George Noory and George Noory was asking Bill
Birnes about the Roswell crash. What you will hear – I’m not
going to translate what he says; this is why I’m giving you the
overview here through Ruth – he said that he had spent some
time talking with Admiral George Hoover from the Office of
Naval Intelligence and George Hoover had told Bill Birnes that
the Roswell visitors were time-travelers.
The biggest secret wasn’t the high technology that was
discovered; the biggest secret wasn’t that these guys came from a
future time; the biggest secret was that, in order for this time-
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travel to be possible, the visitors had to interface with their craft
with their consciousness; that the real meaning for us in this was
that we were more able and our consciousness was greater, than
we had ever been permitted to understand; that the controllers of
this planet don’t want you to know how powerful you are,
because they’d be in big trouble if everyone knew how powerful
they were.
That’s why they lie to us all the time to try and convince us that
we’re not powerful.
We’re just coming up to the break and before the break I just
want to play – this is the clip:
George Noory: What we don’t [know] about the situation at
Roswell is whether these were extraterrestrial, whether they
came from a hollow Earth, whether they came from another
dimension? We don’t know this, right?
Bill Birnes: We don’t. The only clue that I had was from this
Naval Officer, he was from the Office of Naval Intelligence – ONI
– called George Hoover (we’ve talked about him before), who
said that he was the Corso of the Navy [Ed Note: reference to
Col. Philip Corso, the author of ‘The Day after Roswell’] and
that the military believed, and he said he knew, that these entities
were not so much interplanetary, but they were literally time-
travelers.
And the big secret is that they were us, from the future, and that
we and they have the same powers and that was the real fear of
the government, that we had the ability to manipulate reality
around us. We’ve always had that ability. We just didn’t know
how to use it. And if we ever learned how to use it -- and were not
ready for it -- we would cause chaos and that was the big secret
that the Navy eventually found out.
Bill: Thank you. So, one of the things that I want to pass on to
my colleagues – first Dan and then David, who’s to be talking
about these, and closely connected subjects, all tomorrow – is
how powerful we are and what opportunity we have to, in Bill
Birnes’s words: to manipulate reality around us.
Manipulate is like a strong word to use, but what he’s talking
about is creating reality. What reality we want to create and what
are the opportunities are before us – this is what this conference
is about.
So now we’ll take a break and we’ll be back here at half-past
three and then I’ll be talking for one more hour, until half past
four, and then we have a two-hour break after that.
[applause]
Bill: All right. Very good. Thank you. I’ve got a couple of
announcements here, just minor administrative ones. One is just a
reminder that in the little snack bar opposite here, which is timed
to be open during the breaks, there actually is hot food there, if
you need it or want it.
Another little plug here for the girls at the help desk: They are
more than happy to help you with any problems that you’ve got,
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
including finding a hotel, answering questions about how to find
out information and so on. Please use them.
And we have a couple of badges that we need to give to Heinrich
Schnorf, and somebody who prefers to be known only as Melvin.
Okay. So, just a reminder of the timing here: I’m going to talk for
an hour and then we have a break until six-thirty. Then, at six-
thirty, Dan and Marcie are going to come in and we’re going to
be having a conversational presentation. I’m going to kind of be
talking with them about their material.
I would love to know if Dan and Marcie are in the room. Are
they here? No. Okay. They’re still on Los Angeles time.
[laughter] Okay. So, in this next hour, I’m going to continue to
prepare the ground for the main presentations by the other
speakers.
Earlier I was talking about the testimony that Dan Burisch has
been ordered to report about, which is that the time-traveling
future humans were warning of a catastrophe ‘round about now. I
think I hadn’t quite finished off telling the story of the
significance of the Looking Glass devices.
One of the problems in telling these stories is that they don’t go
in a straight line. Everything you talk about leads to at least two
or three other subjects; therefore, it’s very hard to explore all this
ground in a kind of linear way.
The significance of the Looking Glasses which, if you remember,
I was explaining that they were back-engineered from Anunnaki
technology through the Sumerian cylinder seals and was part of
the creation of this huge tangle, which has got to do with
interlocking and overlapping timelines.
One of the things that Dan will talk about this evening is how the
Earth and the solar system are entering a region of energetic
space. And what happened in the future humans’ history, was that
the Looking Glasses amplified the energy from the energetic
space and this caused a pole shift.
In my personal opinion – and it is a personal opinion – one of the
reasons why… it’s almost like there has evolved a modern
mythology about the pole shift in 2012. The stories and reports
and rumors about this have been surfacing all over the Internet
and not all of this is because of what Dan Burisch has said. It’s
almost as if there’s a kind of awareness that we all have - maybe
unconsciously - that there’s something ‘round about now that’s
really quite important.
Clif High from Half Past Human, who uses linguistic patterns on
the Internet to predict the future, says that he’s able to use this
linguistic analysis from the Internet because all humans are
psychic, at least to some degree, even if they don’t know it.
A lot of people sort of know that there’s something happening
‘round about now; a lot of people feel that these are special times
and maybe dangerous times. Sometimes people write to us at
Project Camelot to accuse us of being depressing, and we’re
forecasting doom, and we’re telling everybody bad news. We’re
not doing that; this is not our intention.
If you want to travel to a particular destination using a map, you
have to know where you are, so that you can make the journey. If
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you don’t know where you are and you try and figure out a way
to get to where you want to go to, you might end up in the wrong
place.
Any counselors and therapists here among you will know that, if
you’re trying to help somebody, the first thing to do is to tell the
truth about what’s really happening. A counselor and a therapist
helps the person face up to what’s really happening, not because
they’re trying to make them depressed, but because they’re
actually trying to help them out of the situation. Sometimes that
takes quite a lot of courage, but it’s also the first step that’s
needed.
One of the things that we have been trying to do at Project
Camelot – now, I don’t think everything on our site is correct, it
can’t be, because some of our witnesses contradict each other –
but we think that most of it is correct. What we are reporting on
is that there are numerous situations, which we need to be awake
to and aware of, in order to handle what’s coming.
One of the reasons for this… it’s not just so that you can get your
guns and your food and your gold and then just go and hide
somewhere, it’s not just about that. That might not even be the
smart thing to do, or the best thing to do, but many of you really
understand that there’s more going on here, as we say in English,
more going on than meets the eye; more going on than we can
see.
This is spiritual; it’s a spiritual game – and when I use the word
game, I’m not implying that anything is trivial – but it’s a game
in the sense that, if we play it right, then we can ensure a good
outcome. And we may have opponents in this game. Something
that’s very clear to me -- and I know that it’s very clear to many
of you -- is that, really, this is a spiritual game.
I don’t really want to use the word spiritual war because that’s a
kind of contradiction; there’s nothing spiritual about a war. One
of the things that’s very clear to me is that it’s about – how can I
use the words – it’s about resolving spiritual problems. One of
the reasons why a lot of us are here -- I would suggest -- on this
planet is because this is where a lot of the problems are showing
up; this is where a lot of the problems are visible.
There are certain things that people can do; some of you may
very well be active in this area, which is helping to resolve things
at a spiritual level. In order to resolve problems spiritually,
you’ve got to know what the problems are -- so one of the things
that Project Camelot has been doing is bringing situations to the
awareness of people who are able to operate on a spiritual level to
help resolve them.
So we’re actually operating on multiple levels here. You can go
and grab your guns and your food and your gold and go and hide,
if you want to, but that’s not actually what we’re recommending.
I’m just saying that as a kind of joke, but I want to just use the
next 45 minutes to lay out some of the potential situations that we
may have in front of us.
Before I even start, I want to stress that most of these things
haven’t happened yet, and they may not happen at all.
One of the things that Henry Deacon told us when we first met
him, he said the problems are complex because everything is
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happening at once; there’s a convergence of problems. Some of
the problems may be connected with Earth changes and the
region of space which the solar system is moving through.
One of the things that David Wilcock may talk about tomorrow –
he’s done a lot of research in this area – is how global warming
has got nothing to do, well, very little to do, with burning fossil
fuels. Everything in the solar system is heating up as it moves
into this region of space.
With this sort of energetic influence, it seems that there also
comes an opportunity. One of the things that David will talk
about is how the very same influences that may be causing global
warming are also assisting with the process of a change in
consciousness.
I’m saying assisting with the change in consciousness, because I
think that our own personal development has got something to do
with this as well, but the circumstances may be making this more
easy to happen; may be allowing it to happen. So that’s a factor
as well; the fact that, as we enter into this region that may present
dangers and threats, everyone’s waking up at the same time.
One of the things here – this is something else that, personally, I
was alerted to by Henry Deacon – was the influence of magnetic
pole reversal, or changes in the Earth’s magnetic field. Because,
whether we’re aware of it or not, as human beings, our nervous
systems and our brains work electrically and, although we can’t
see it, we’re sort of swimming around in this electromagnetic
ocean all the time.
And human beings are very sensitive. If you start messing around
with the electromagnetics around a human being, then their
behavior and their emotions and their attitude is likely to be
affected as well.
So I wonder how many people in this room have noticed that
every now and then, there are people around them that seem to be
behaving irrationally, at least to some small degree; maybe
they’re becoming a little more unstable, sometimes; maybe there
are more disagreements, more quarrels; maybe some people, who
you thought were very, very level-headed, are making some
strange errors of judgment.
There’s a sort of instability, which is something that Kerry
Cassidy and myself started to notice about a year ago; we just
noticed a lot of anomalous events with peoples’ behavior. We
started thinking there’s something very strange happening here;
this is a pattern. And a lot of people have been commenting on
this all over the Internet, entirely independently of anything
we’ve been saying.
This is another factor to take into account, the fact that people
might not be responding to situations in the way that they always
used to, maybe not as predictably, maybe not as stably.
On top of all of that, there is what David Wilcock refers to as
“Illuminati politics”, which is a phrase that I love. What that
refers to -- that beautiful, little phrase -- it just refers to whatever
the agenda of people who consider themselves to be in control of
planet Earth, or wanting to be in control of planet Earth, what that
agenda might be.
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Ruth: That was complicated!
Bill: That was complicated?
Ruth: Yes!
Bill: Okay. Illuminati politics refers to the possible agenda of the
controllers of the planet, or the people who might want to be the
controllers of the planet.
One of the things that Henry Deacon alerted us to was a
document called the Report From Iron Mountain. Now, a lot of
people say that this is a fictional document, but Henry reports
how, in an intelligence briefing a number of years ago, he was
given this document, ordered to read it and then to report back
the next morning.
Henry maintains it is not a fictional document. But whether it is
or not, it certainly seems to be used as if its contents were a good
description of what’s happening.
One of the many things that the Report from Iron Mountain talks
about – this is a document that dates back to the 1960s – is that
there are too many people in the planet. There is an
overpopulation problem, and it is possible to argue that this is a
real problem.
George Green talks about the Global 2000 Report, which also
talks about the need to reduce the world’s population in order for
the planet, basically, to survive. Anyone whose seen, or seen
photographs of, the Georgia Guidestones in America, in Georgia,
one of the things that’s on the Georgia Guidestones is a very
clear, plain statement that the goal is to have five hundred million
people on the planet, which is something like a 90 to 95 percent
reduction of the number of people now.
There are a couple of things to notice here. One is that it’s easy to
believe that this intention could exist; it’s easy to understand how
they might want to do it. Anyone whose ever been to Cairo or
Lagos or Calcutta or Mexico City, there’s a problem. It’s easy to
understand why the controllers of the planet might want to
drastically reduce the world’s population. But they haven’t done
this yet, or if they’ve tried to do it, then they haven’t succeeded.
One of the things that David might talk about tomorrow is how –
let me get the wording right – how human beings are naturally
resistant to viruses that are designed to wipe them all out; it just
isn’t going to happen quite so easily. Now, that doesn’t mean that
there might not be plans to do this. Many of you will know that
the outbreak of Swine flu from Mexico earlier this year, it almost
exactly repeats the pattern of the 1918 Spanish flu.
What happened in 1918 was, ‘round about February, there was a
very mild form of flu that swept around the world. But it was
very mild, people recovered quickly; it was called the three-day
flu. A lot of people got flu for three days and then they recovered,
and then it was the summertime of 1918.
Then there was another wave that started ‘round about October, I
think it was, of that year and, by that time, there was – it’s what
virologists call a viral mass – there was such a large quantity of
this virus around in the population that it enabled it to mutate.
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Now, that’s something that hasn’t happened yet. This morning I
looked at an American web site; it’s called flu.gov. Now, we’re
not there yet, but there is evidence that the governments are
preparing people, either for a real outbreak or for people to be
frightened into thinking that there’s a real outbreak, and to run for
vaccinations to help them. The problem might not be the flu; it
might be the vaccinations.
Now, I know that you guys have been following this kind of stuff
on the Internet and this not the purpose of this talk, to go into that
in detail; but, it describes the kind of thing that they might be
planning to do. It’s a very delicate line to draw, because one of
the ways that people are controlled is through fear. So it’s very
important not to be afraid of this stuff and it’s also very important
to know what’s happening. So, once again, we have to be awake
and aware of all of this information.
Now, a couple of weeks ago, we had a very significant meeting
with Dr. Pete Peterson. We talked to him – and when I say “we”,
this is Kerry Cassidy, David Wilcock and myself -- we all met
with this guy two weeks ago. And we asked him about this
problem, this situation, with the timelines and the time-traveling
future humans and the warning of a future catastrophe -- and he
didn’t know about any of that; or he said he didn’t know about
any of it.
But what he did say was - and he really was very animated and
urgent about this - he said that he was as sure as he personally
could be that there really were plans to bring America under
martial law.
Now, again, we have to draw a fine line here because I don’t
want to run the risk of trying to convince you all that this is going
to happen, which means that you’re more likely to create it in
your own future, but he told us that he was as sure as he could be
that there was going to be a collapse of the financial system and a
collapse of the infrastructure within America towards the end of
this year. The last information we got off of him was that this was
going to be ‘round about the beginning of October.
Now, if we have any more information about this, and of course,
on Project Camelot, we’re going to make this available to you;
this is our duty to do that. And that really is all we know about
that.
But, when David talks tomorrow, he’s going to make a good case
for why we shouldn’t necessarily buy into this kind of plan. One
of the things that David wants to talk about is that for years, there
have been people saying: this is going to happen and that’s going
to happen and we’re all in great danger -- and nothing ever really
goes wrong.
I respect his view about that, but we still have a duty to report
what people are telling us.
One of the things that, here in Europe, we can be reasonably
confident of, is that, if we see something major starting to happen
in America, then it will probably affect us in Europe very soon
afterwards. If we can make it through to the end of this year --
and not a lot has gone wrong -- then I think that we really will be
– as Dan Burisch likes to say, he said, the last time and the only
time that he’s been on stage at a conference, in Laughlin, Nevada,
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last year -- he said there’s not going to be a catastrophe, there’s
going to be a Golden Age.
And this is where we go right back to what we were talking about
before, that there is the opportunity for us to create the future that
we want. Just because something is planned, it doesn’t mean it’s
going to happen.
Dan is going to tell us, this evening, about how he and the people
who he is working with and reporting to, are as sure as they can
be that, what is known as the timeline two catastrophe, the time
for that has passed and it has not happened. We’ve already taken
that fork in the freeway, that fork in the autobahn, that’s going off
in a better direction.
Dan will tell us, this evening, how he discovered – or felt he
discovered and then checked out – that the actual date of this
catastrophe in the future humans’ history was the 28th of March,
in this year [2009]. And that day passed and nothing happened.
Now, people who refuse to believe that story will say: Well, of
course, nothing happened because nothing was ever going to
happen. But what I invite you all to do is look at the man who
will be here on stage with me this evening and assess for yourself
whether he’s telling the truth.
So Dan, at the moment, is a very optimistic man. He feels that
everything is going in the right direction. Dan says that the dollar
is not going to crash. Now, that’s not just his opinion; Dan is also
very well connected with people who know what’s going on and
who know what the plans are.
One of the things that may be happening, when we get
information from different sources that don’t seem to all agree, is
that we may be hearing one plan from this direction, another plan
from that direction, and we don’t actually know which one is
going to be the one that rolls out.
David Wilcock has something to say in the back row here.
David?
David: [inaudible]
Bill: Absolutely, yes.
Ruth: I didn’t get it.
Bill: David’s reminded me about something else that Dr. Pete
Peterson told us about the end of this year. What Dr. Pete
Peterson told us was that President Obama was going to reveal
the reality of extraterrestrial contact before the end of this year.
He said that he had been told this by people who knew that the
television time on the networks had already been booked. The
date he told us, if I remember it right, was November the 27th.
What he also told us was that it was one of these ritualistically
significant dates, numerologically. He said that what Obama was
going to talk about was the reality of contact with six different
friendly ET races. When we asked him why he used the word
friendly, he said: Well, some of them are unfriendly, but most of
them are friendly.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
One of the things that Pete Peterson told us -- and this is a turn of
phrase that I love to use -- is that, he said he quit working for the
U.S. government because he didn’t like feeling that he had to
have three baths a day to avoid the feeling of being covered in
excrement. Then we asked him why he worked for the U.S.
government at all, and he said that a lot of his work had actually
been motivated by the fact that they needed help, because some
of the ETs were not friendly.
Now, I don’t pretend to know all the complexities that are
involved here. It’s easy to imagine that, as I was saying about an
hour ago, that the American government and the other
governments, they’re literally in over their heads. There’s so
much going on that they really don’t know how properly to
handle this.
There’s a huge amount of evidence that the Americans have been
spending trillions of dollars building underground bases ever
since the end of the Second World War. This is an almost
unimaginably expensive, long-term construction project. And
we’re not even talking about the cost of the secret space program.
One of the things that Pete Peterson told us was that the Aurora
has now been retired from active use – the Aurora Spaceplane.
It’s one of these planes that’s been rumored to exist for a long
time, but they’ve retired it now. They’ve got better stuff than that.
They have superluminal craft – meaning craft that can travel
faster than the speed of light.
We heard exactly the same story from our witness, Jake Simpson,
who we met in October, last year. Jake Simpson has confirmed
everything which I have said so far today.
Then, if we consider the cost of these programs, then we wonder
where all the money has gone. Let me just present that as a
possible answer to the question of where all the money has gone.
What’s interesting about the underground bases scenario – and
the weekend before last, we talked to Pete Peterson -- he called
them underground cities. He says he’s been in them.
Bill Deagle also reports having been in these underground cities.
Jake Simpson told us how there is an underground shuttle system
that actually connected North America to Australia, under the
Pacific Ocean.
Why would they do this? Why would they build these facilities?
Jake Simpson told us that it was standard defensive military
thinking, because they’ve been aware of a coming problem ever
since the Second World War, and that the military thinking,
basically, was that, if there are going to be big problems on this
planet, then they should dig in. This is what the military do when
they’re in a war situation; they dig in. [laughter]
Jake Simpson told us some extraordinary information. He said
that this is a cyclical phenomena; it occurs in cycles, this
energetic space, which the Earth is going through. It’s the same
series of problems that was responsible for what nearly a hundred
cultures on this planet refer to as The Great Flood, which wiped
out Atlantis, which was reported by the great historian, Plato,
who never got anything wrong.
104
Jake Simpson told us that in some of these military installations,
when they had been excavating the bases, they had found the
existence of older bases that were not built by us.
We asked Dan Burisch about this story; he confirmed it. He said:
Yeah. He said: Not only can I confirm that but I can tell you
where it happened. He said: It was in Norway.
Or was it – oh, God, I can’t remember – it was either Norway or
Sweden, forgive me. I’ll find out. In fact, I think he said
Scandinavia, which is why I can’t remember. [laughter]
He said there was a really bizarre situation that had occurred
when a particular machine had been abandoned – because this is
sometimes what they do, they build these big tunnels with these
machines, and then they just leave them because they can’t take
them out again – and they went to another location and then they
found the same machine in a different place but it wasn’t their
machine. It was an almost identical machine, but it was thousands
of years old.
What Jake said, he said: Yes. He said: We probably have handled
this problem, but you’ve got to appreciate that it’s military
thinking to be “safe”.
It’s military thinkingto still have the insurance, even though they
think that we’re safe. So they haven’t abandoned their bases;
they’re still down there.
This is the kind of thing that Dan is going to be talking about this
evening; this is the subject. The essence of it is that it’s a little bit
like we’re in a movie, and you imagine a long movie with a lot of
action in it that’s, maybe, three hours long. And we’re about half
an hour before the end when things are getting really exciting.
We don’t know how it’s going to end, but it’s a great movie. It
really couldn’t be more interesting.
We’re in this movie. To change the metaphor, it’s like a virtual-
reality game. This is a spiritual game and this reality is a sort of
illusion, as the Buddhists would say, but it definitely feels real.
If we continue to talk about movies, we can talk about the movie
The Matrix, when this may all be an illusion, in a sense, but it
still feels very real and you can still get hurt in it. So, though it’s
a game, there’s nothing trivial about it. If we have children and
people that we care about and, if we care about this beautiful
planet, then we have to take it seriously.
But the theme of this conference is that this is the kind of virtual
reality game that, by understanding that it’s a virtual reality
game, we have the chance to create the outcome that we want.
And have as much fun as possible while we’re doing it.
So, this brings us right back – and here I’m going to finish – to
what George Green was saying in his little booklet Messages For
The Ground Crew. He was told that it’s nearly too late. But the
most important word in that sentence is “nearly”. All the best
movies have something that’s “nearly” going to happen and then
it doesn’t happen.
I’m a mountaineer, and the best climbs I ever made were the ones
where I nearly fell, but I didn’t. Those of you who have a loving
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
relationship may know that some of the best times are when your
partner nearly left you, but they didn’t. [laughter]
Because, after that, you’ve got an opportunity to figure out how
to make it all work out much better after that. So, as a collective
Ground Crew – and it’s not like the Ground Crew of different
countries, this is just the Swiss Ground Crew and we say this as a
bit of a joke – but we’re all the Ground Crew. It’s possible fifteen
percent of the human race is a ground crew, really.
What we urge you to do – and when I say we, I’m talking about
the Swiss Ground Crew, and also speaking on behalf of Kerry
Cassidy and myself, in Project Camelot. Some people write to us
and they say: What can I do? What shall I do?
And we say: Do what you can. Do something. Just START doing
something.
105
When Kerry Cassidy and I picked up this little consumer-grade
camcorder and started talking to anyone who was willing to talk
to us three years ago, we never imagined that the snowball could
have become this big.
If you dare to believe that things are possible, then anything is
possible. Your ability to make things happen is only limited by
what you believe. So do what you can. Talk to people. Collect
people together. Form groups and communities.
Keep people informed. Do everything you can do to wake people
up, to support them in a transitional process of becoming more
Awake and Aware, and to help them realize that there is a New
World - If They Can Take It.
Thank you.
[applause]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dr. Dan Burisch / Dr. Marci McDowell
Zürich Workshop
Zürich, Switzerland, 10 July 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Before the Workshop begins:
DAN BURISCH (DB): I could just keep talking and blabbering
on for hours and hours and hours about how the immune system
functions. That’s not our purpose here today. There’s something
larger to our purpose here.
But what we found out was this: We found out that somewhere in
the back of the room there was a small group of individuals
who... varied belief system. This belief system comes from
another nation-state, from what we’re hearing. We’ve heard that
this happened from two separate individuals. One individual told
us about it who lives here in Switzerland, and another individual
told us about it who lives in France, and they were independent
pieces of information which came to us.
AND WE SAID: Oh my God, a belief system.
We were talking primarily about the science of the issues, not a
belief system. This would be like a Christian telling a Muslim
that they’re wrong or a Muslim telling a Christian. That may be
the way that it was perceived, and it was never intended that way.
We are speaking only for the science of the issue.
And what we’d just like to say to those individuals, even to
those... what word did they use? “Bullshit,” did I hear?
[MANY VOICES]: Oh yes. [and other inaudible responses]
DB: Because those individuals who courageously stayed – and
this is why we invited people up onto the stage – you’re the
106
center, the center of a great mass of people that has no specific
center aside from, hopefully, love. You’re the center of all of this,
not we. We were simply... well, we drew that straw to do what
we’re doing. And what we would like to say to you, the
individuals who courageously came up to the stage, is:
Wonderful. Thank you.
And to those that we promised that we would put your letters on
the front of Eagles Disobey, we will when we get home. We’ll
get them scanned in and we’ll get them up as-is, no changes to
them. You have a right to have your say, and that’s why Eagles
Disobey exists.
To those individuals who “labeled,” acted fearful, acted angry,
God bless you, and God bless them. God bless you and your
belief system and we hope you have long and happy and healthy
lives.
What would you. . . Oh, oh, I tell everybody we have no real
plans here this morning. This is up to you.
AUDIENCE MEMBER (AM): A free-form forum.
DB: What is behind us here is something which has never been
broadcast to the people of Earth before. [side talk with audio
engineer]
AUDIO ENGINEER: We are streaming, yes. It’s live. We’re all
on the air. [background voices discussing phone call] We’re just
supporting it to include the people here...
DB: [voices overtalking] All right, let’s leave this for a few
moments to give the rest of the people who are intending on
arriving... Maybe those present who know the individuals who
are arriving can help us, we plead, to pass on the information that
we’ve already provided, our feelings about these issues. We’d be
grateful to you all. [background voices]
GROUND CREW MEMBER: Ruth wants to have a couple of
minutes to work around 10:00 to work with …
DB: Sure, to speak with these individuals?
RUTH: Yes.
DB: Oh sure. Very fine, very fine.
RUTH: Yes.
DB: We’ll wait until you’re concluded with that, then we’ll
continue speaking.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
MARCIA McDOWELL (MMcD): We didn’t realize that it
wasn’t 10:00 o’clock yet, so...
DB: I realized. I just started talking. [laughter]
MMcD: So we’re going to hold back just a little bit because there
are still some people coming, and we want to make sure
everybody gets in and gets seated. So bear with us a little bit. It’s
going to go...
DB: To those looking at my strange driver’s license, please return
it, [laughter] because even though I don’t drive that much in Las
Vegas, Marcia does most of the driving...
MMcD: We really need it.
DB: Yeah.
MMcD: So please give it back. [laughs]
DB: So we’re going to wait just a few minutes and then Ruth, I
understand, wishes to speak with everyone here. And to those
listening on the Internet, Hi. Ah... we’ll just...
MMcD: We’ll just kind of pause it.
DB: All right. [background conversation, audience chatter]
Everyone is going to hear a short audio clip with some images
attached to it – it was easier to do it in Windows Movie format
than bring an AVI [Audio Video Interleave, multimedia format
by Microsoft] in here – from the morning of March 28 with
Marcia actually speaking to the group the morning that the T2
date arrived.
You’re gonna hear some anger at her because we had some
representatives of the Illumes present, and specifically...
AM: Illumes?
DB: The Illuminati ...specifically individuals who had added my
name to the treaty system that ultimately resulted in what you all
heard last night. So there was some anger that you will hear in
her voice. Please understand that this was anger toward them, not
anger toward anyone else.
MMcD: I haven’t told to... even if I have to... [inaudible]
DB: Drag me and stop me? And did you say strangle?
MMcD: No manually, if I have to stop you. We’re going to have
a five-minute, and then a one-minute warning for tape change. A
tape change takes about 30 to 40 seconds, so if I had to like drag
you and stop you from speaking, I would have to do something
drastic.
DB: What happens if you’re speaking when this happens? Moses
supposes that roses are roses, right?
MMcD: Moses supposes erroneously.
107
AM: You’re going to stop her? [laughter / audience banter]
DB: Should we step out while... I think it’d be...
MMcD: No, I think she wants to work with all of us.
DB: All right. Do you want to have a seat here?
MMcD: Yes, I think I will. Thank you.
DB: Yeah, just move it aside.
WOMAN FROM AUDIENCE: ...but I can speak out loud?
AUDIO ENGINEER: This is an open mike setup.
AM: If you’re going to give us your ID, just pass your credit card
and... [laughter]
DB: You assume I have a bank account, dude? Speak to wife; she
handles money. [laughter]
Workshop begins:
RUTH: We are all very much looking forward to this workshop...
I would like to take two minutes just to get back to yourselves,
back to your energetic flow in your body.
Sometimes we get so much into our minds and so much into
ideas and so much into emotions that we get drawn away. So let’s
take a minute to get back in some kind of place, and I want to
give you a sound that might help you to come back. [hits gong
type of instrument which makes long reverberating sound;
audience quiets down]
I always like to connect myself with my Higher Self, with
heaven, in a way, and let some energy flow from the third eye, to
the toes, to the floor, and let all the heaviness run out into the
ground so that my spirit can take over, that my Higher Self can
take over because this includes the body and we are all friends up
there. [silence for a moment]
Thank you very much. Enjoy the workshop with Dan and Marcia.
[rings gong softly once again]
DB: Thank you. All right. The reason why this driver’s license
was being passed around while some of you were coming in, is I
had asked what the difference was between...
MMcD: Stand up. They can’t see you.
DB: They can see... You mean the cameras. Well.
MMcD: I was getting a signal from the back.
DB: We will just move this over here. It’s only for a couple of
hours to stand. I had asked what the difference was between my
personal driver’s license and the driver’s license of the Illuminati.
One individual correctly indicated: The difference is they don’t
have them. That kind of filth is driven around in limousines.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
I had also indicated, at the risk of restating a few things which...
[responding to Marcia] Yes, I’m going to get to the phone call.
I’m not psychic, but yes, I’m going to get to the phone call.
At the risk of re-stating a couple of things that you’ve already
heard, we understand that there was a group of individuals who
had a “belief system” present yesterday, and none of us,
especially Marcia and myself, wish to offend anyone who was
carrying a belief system reference the existence of bacteria,
viruses, fungi, things like that.
We were speaking from a scientific point of view, from the
evidence that we know to be true, and we’re not wishing to
collide at all with anyone’s belief system. Yet we must stand with
what we know to be true as well, and we can always find
common ground with one another. The common ground is always
love.
Yesterday, after the rather exciting evening that we had, Marcia
and I were notified by one of our team members that a satellite
call arrived through a sat-phone from one of our team members
here in Zurich.
We’ve got some of the Eagles team here in Zurich. I can actually
show you... As long as they’re not placed on film whatsoever,
maybe near the end, I will show you what some of our team
members actually look like.
Some of you may have seen our former Forum. In the Eagles
team they use such avatars as Mongrel and Owl and Caspa and
Camel Duster. Everybody knows about the Mongrel. [makes an
animal noise] [laughter] When you see what this very strange and
very loving man looks like, you’ll probably laugh again.
But we received a satellite call from the former head of the
Consistory of the Majestic. Yes, at least two to three of the
former twelve were listening yesterday, and listening to you all.
MMcD: Everybody.
DB: I hadn’t heard this sound in his voice. [there is a disturbance
in the room] Now we’re being interrupted! Now come on in,
come on in. I can’t take such interruptions! [laughter]
I hadn’t heard this kind of a crackling, this kind of a shaken
sound in his voice since the 1990s. Of course, he’s retired back
into industry now from government service, after the last
administration departed. Well, he was already out and then he
left.
He was very afraid for Marcia and I because he was only hearing
audio feed, and everyone knows that’s lovely, just the audio feed.
We’ve asked Bill, by the way: Please rush the entire video out so
that everybody can see everything in context. And he said he
would do the best that he could.
But he was very worried specifically for me, and we told him:
Look, as we passed the phone back and forth, you sent us out
here. Had you not given these orders...
The original purpose of my debriefing was for archival purposes,
Marcia’s private archive.
108
MMcD: I had intended to simply record for posterity as much as
possible about Dan’s experiences so that if someday we needed
them as a reference, they would be available. That was the whole
purpose, the sole purpose, of trying to archive so much of his
experience. Then it became more.
DB: These days, these conferences, were never in consideration,
never a thought of mine. I just wanted, and continue... and
although I love every one of you... but I would want to continue
just doing the research that we’re doing, and to back-engineer
some of the devices that we spoke about. In the Lotus research
that you will see, some of the images weren’t shown in any other
places such as maybe even CalTech.
[brief interruption and chatter as new people come in; new
camera set up]
In any case, I told him: You sent us out here and you needed to
expect that the people would rightfully and rightly express
themselves to us.
After a few more minutes of conversation and some tears
between him and I, I told him to listen to the peoples’ voices that
he heard and to make sure that the videos which were coming out
of this conference were forwarded to the group which took over
after Majestic.
[to Marcia] Should we just go ahead and name them? Name it?
The group which took over... and this is going to be a very big
problem, because this is streaming out live; it’s being maintained
for public record. The new group which took over after Majestic
is named Scion, S-C-I-O-N (not S-I-O-N as in the Priory of Sion)
[laughter]... S-C-I-O-N, which means a transplant, such as when
you would transplant a shoot of a tree onto another tree, it’s
called a scion. It’s a biological term.
MMcD: It’s a name alike but it is a spelling difference.
DB: They had asked Marcia and myself for some suggestions for
names, and that biological term, that term actually came from me,
and it was adopted as such. Now, this statement which just went
live over the Internet is now out there forever, and it will cause
serious military-industrial complex problems within the shadow
government, even in our own country. But, again, you have the
right to know. An individual yelled out last night: Tell us all you
know.
MMcD: That’s a little difficult. [laughter]
DB: I can tell you as we would proceed over the years,
everything that I know and I understand and that I’ve been
educated to understand... save those future issues that it’s truly
my conviction, my heart, that should remain silent, those issues
about a potential future, because I truly believe and I hope you all
believe this as well, that we’re going to write our own future
together. It’s ours to take. That’s the birthright that I was
speaking about yesterday.
MMcD: But the upshot to this conversation, the upshot to this
conversation was that there was a question of whether people
were capable of handling Disclosure.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DB: Mm, hm.
MMcD: That’s why essentially we were sent out with the orders
we were sent out with. I think it was a testing of the water. We
said, we told them...
DB: Yes.
MMcD: ...that: These people can take it.
DB: They can handle this.
MMcD: They can handle this. They’re strong, they’re powerful,
they’re not afraid. They’re not afraid to get like that with us.
DB: No.
MMcD: And we’re not afraid to talk. These people can take this.
So take that back to the powers, the new group, and say: “Think
about this and make sure you make the right decision. These
people can handle this.”
DB: I got to tell you, we, we... [indicating audience member
should speak] Yeah, please...
AM: I would like to know the background of the reason why
Majestic has sent you out for this Disclosure. That is normally
not in their politics at this time. Is that correct?
DB: No, no, it is not. This argument, which culminated in 2002
inside of The Committee of the Majority, which was a cover
committee over the Majestic, resulted in the Majestic literally
fraying and falling apart.
The reason that we were sent out is because Looking Glass data
actually showed that a rise of consciousness in the world’s
population prior and during this period of transition could
actually benefit in our survival during it. So that’s why we say
we’re not the center of this, you are.
MMcD: It’s everybody.
DB: It’s everybody who is, in my humble conviction and
understanding, just saving the world.
MMcD: [to audience member] Yes?
AM: Isn’t it more to the point that they’re fearful of not whether
people take it, but more for their own safety?
DB: Oh, absolutely they are!
MMcD: Yeah.
DB: Absolutely they are. I have rudely called them gutless
before, and spineless, and have been in text, and in record, and
even in interviews, labeling them.
MMcD: Because they have a… [unclear]. They dumped …
109
DB: They still were. They still were as of last night when we
received the telephone call. And one of the things which
provoked a little spat between him and myself is I asked him why
he wasn’t here. [laughter] I mean, it’s not like he’s short on
money. He didn’t need to drive. He didn’t need to fly himself
here. He had one of the VAH [searched terms: this could
reference to heavy attack squadron planes]
Well, I don’t want to... I think we all know who I’m talking about
here. I have placed his name in affidavit under penalty of perjury
and I do have a personal relationship with the man, a close
personal relationship, but when push comes to shove we have to
do what is right, each of us.
MMcD: He knew the risks when he sent us out here.
DB: It was his choice to pick the two, the one they have the
orders read to, and initially the two to watch over me, as it was
put, while the back-channel stuff was going on, while we were
getting closer and closer to one another to be permanently with
one another. This is something that he risked, and, ultimately, he
and the last group of twelve risked.
So they get what they get now, and I consider it fortunate to have
been picked, though, for that. I really do. Sometimes it’s hard, but
sometimes life is hard. It’s hard on all of you; it’s hard on us too.
MMcD: But you’re right when you say they ran away.
DB: Yes.
MMcD: They do not want to take this heat. They do not want to
be held accountable and responsible. So they run away and
they’re protecting, yeah.
DB: [to audience member dressed in purple] Yes, they are. Yes,
Sir... in purple.
AM: What was the risk that he took?
DB: The risk that he took was that we might vary from the
orders, and we might also be a little more forthcoming with you
all, which is what has been happening, than what they actually
anticipated. Now, I’ve gone on and on and on, and when I start
speaking of the official… [unclear] had the tie on and all of that
garbage... Like I say, this is us.
MMcD: [inaudible]
DB: They risked everything for themselves. Even though they’re
not willing to come out of the hiding places, they risked
everything for themselves that we might foment even greater
problems for them.
I know things about them, so does Marcia. We know dates, times,
and meetings, where they met with whom in Washington D.C.,
account numbers, PIN numbers. We haven’t used them yet,
[laughter] but Marcia has threatened once or twice.
Account numbers, PIN numbers, also contract numbers, and
these are contracts into places such as the Defense Department of
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the United States. And just the mentioning of the name is going
to be a big enough problem for them. Ah well, like I said, they
took the risk.

MMcD: Why do you think some of the government and power

echelon people love us so much?

DB: After 20 years of working with them, I’m no longer a

believer. I stopped being a believer the day that they raised the
shade in the gallery and I saw Chi'el'ah [“Chi’el’ah” is the official
spelling of this name for the JRod, from previous Burisch
interviews] for the first time. My world changed, my universe
changed. It impacted me so profoundly I had a hard time
remaining standing up. [to audience member] Yes, Sir. AM: Yes. So you’re talking about every... each of them?

AM: How is the U.S. government coping with the fact that they
can’t use the Looking Glass anymore to fix appointments to, like
for instance, presidency like what it has been happening in
Australia... [inaudible]... to the... [inaudible]... and part of the
decision in regard to... [inaudible]...
DB: There are a number of governments across the Earth that are
shaken at the moment because they feel the power structure
slipping away and slipping into the hands of the people. And so
be it, and good for us. Good for us, finally good for us.
They had worked for decades with the Looking Glass technology
and became accustomed to it as one would become accustomed
to taking a shot of heroin. Now that that is no longer in their
hands, they’re feeling the withdrawals.
DB: Yes. See, what happened is, they were broken into three
separate pieces and then combined together by components such
as A, B, and C. All the A’s were placed together, all the B’s, and
all the C’s.
Well, they lost one of those components. We know that there are
individuals right now trying to back-engineer that extra
component because they’re panicking inside. I’m not talking
about the U.S. government panicking, I’m talking about the
governments, all of the governments, who have been involved in
this technology and who are addicted to it.
AM: Can I have a second question?
DB: Well, you can ask all you want.

Well, my opinion is let them feel the withdrawals like we have to AM: I don’t want to press you or something, but...
feel every day having to go to work and struggle in our lives.
There’s no sympathy from us on that. [applause]
DB: Press me?

I was very ginger while sitting on the stage talking about the
AM: The question is, who can steal such a thing? Maybe I don’t
components to the Looking Glass in that we have heard – that’s
understand, you know, who can steal such a thing. I know a
true – we have heard that the components not only were broken
couple of guys who steal bicycles, but... [laughter]
up, but separated from one another.

DB: I didn’t know you were [inaudible]... Blame it on Fulcanelli!

But certain components, meaning the projection device, have
Blame it on Fulcanelli. [Ed. note: 19th century alchemist]
been spirited away. Well, not only was the projection device
spirited away, so was all the CAD [Computer-Aided Design]
drawings and all of the general schematics for the devices. They MMcD: Okay, how did the Q-94 document get spirited into my
don’t have them anymore. hands?

[audience member question, inaudible] DB: Mm hm. That document, ladies and gentlemen, is quite real.
It is a real draft document with all the errors that Steven and
myself – Steven Mostow, the late Steven Mostow – and myself
DB: Yes, sir. Where they are? I love all of you. [audience
could type that day next to the clerk’s office.
laughter] I really do. I really do.

I actually put a “CMD” for Commander instead of “CDR” in it

[long pause] I don’t officially know. You’re hearing that word? I
don’t officially know. They can go through their withdrawals and
just have to come back to reality with the rest of us. [to audience
member] Yes?
AM: I know that you said that there was like 50-some devices, if
I understand.
DB: There were several.
because I knew that it would irritate the clerk who was typing it.
She was very mean to us. These were the days that we were
actually using typewriters to type our draft reports. We’d have to
pass the paperwork underneath a window, such as like a bank
window, and what she would do, when she would get done
retyping our reports back and putting signature blocks on them, is
she would shoot the papers back and they would drop on the floor
because she did not like us. So we did everything we could just to
be irritable back at her. It was an inside thing that was going on at
S4.

110
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The clerk’s office was located approximately in back of where
the nurse’s office was located that Bob Lazar actually saw. So
that’s where the actual typing of this document occurred. It was
leaked out by Steven, who’s no longer alive – and probably as a
result of that.
MMcD: It came to me in a form that was very, very difficult to
manage because it was an extremely poor version. It was gray
and black, not black and white. It was horrible, gray and black,
and it was in reverse, so the only way to see it... It was like it had
been processed incorrectly.
DB: He shoved it through the copy machine in the clerk’s office,
but how he got it out of S4, I have no clue.
I’m going to tell you something. Things generally could not be
sneaked out of that facility. That was a highly guarded facility.
We had what was called “Pan-and-Scan”. We would have to pan
in, meaning weight, and have our irises, both of them, scanned
before we could move from position to position. If we went to the
rest room and lost weight because of voiding, we would have to
re-Pan-and-Scan so that we would be identifiable by our weight
and our iris.
So those people that say: Well, this person may have sneaked a
heavy element out of S4? Sorry. It didn’t happen. That didn’t
happen. Paperwork? Possibly via a courier... possibly via a
courier. That’s the only thing I’ve been able to guess from it.
I never got a chance to ask him before he crashed with, I believe,
another family member and some friends in his aircraft. They just
mysteriously went down. My other friend from up there, Bob,
Robert Schwartz, he was hacked to death, as I understand, by a
boyfriend of his daughter.
MMcD: With a sword.
DB: Nobody understands why the boyfriend went kind of
strange.
MMcD: He was hacked to death.
DB: He’s gone as well. There are two original members of the
Aquarius team that are alive. That is myself and the man that I
was speaking to on the phone last night, on the satellite phone.
Everyone else is dead. [to audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: In your experience… [unclear] the P45s … [inaudible]… do
you think… [inaudible] are they humans or not?
DB: Were they humans?
AM: No. Did they use… [inaudible] present-day humans?
MMcD: You mean to the agreements?
AM: Agreements.
DB: The P52s were, to the best of my knowledge. The P45s
violate any agreement that they can possibly get away with
violating. They had an extremely, almost a fascist, intent about
111
them. They didn’t care about the treaties, although they knew that
they had to comply with them to a certain extent, and if they
could get away with something they did, and do. I’m hoping at
this time that the separation of the Timelines has been such that
they no longer have contact with us.
AM: I was going to ask that. Concerning the separation of the
Timelines, does that mean that the Orions and the J-Rods will no
longer visit us?
DB: Yes, as I understand. However, I am in direct possession of
information to suggest that they are still on orbit and also near
our Moon for the purpose of removing heirlooms. Now, I had to
suck this up pretty hard last night when David... he apologized to
me actually, after. When we were sitting out here drinking,
starting to drink this wonderful beer, [Ed note: David does not
drink any sort of alcohol and has not done so for 13 or 14 years
now, so it was Dan and possibly others who were enjoying
drinks.] he apologized to me.
HE SAID: I’m so sorry for putting you on the spot.
I SAID: Why? I put you on the spot, because no one knew that he
had suffered from swine flu.
But it was a useful example at the time because we were talking
about something that’s so important to all of us, and that’s our
health.
And so, I know he’s a giving, and a loving, and a wonderful and
very bright man, and so I took that chance at that moment that his
heart would extend in that direction, and it did. And then he took
that same chance back at us.
MMcD: Yes.
DB: The reality of what was going on, if you’d like to know...
When I was onboard in ’73, after I’d been abducted in Mae
Boyar Park and came into contact with the former MJ1’s son who
passed away onboard, that son was already onboard as a
collateral heirloom – collateral, as in: I want collateral for a
loan. The P45s took collateral for the loan to agree to the treaties.
Well, that same collateral... After I accepted the final orders, I
was informed that same collateral was then in place for me,
which meant that my lovely six-year-old daughter would likely
have been taken as collateral and not returned. The only way... It
was not like... It was slightly misstated last night for me “to get
out of Majestic”. No. It was for me to keep them here.
I did what I had to do because the P45 J-Rods are extremely
legalistic. They want the letter of the law rather than the spirit of
the law, and it was required that anyone who had care, custody
and control, and was called senior echelon... As soon as those
final orders arrived, I was called senior echelon, the same as a J-
number again; the same as one of the Twelve again.
As soon as I accepted those orders, I was part of a treaty codicil,
a separate portion of the treaty, of which I was unaware until I
was informed of that.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So when it came time for the divorce issue to proceed with the
former wife, there was also a decision and a near-panic between
Marcia and myself to get the divorce done before June 1st. Had
that not been done before June 1st, I would have been in care,
custody and control of those two young ladies, and one of them
would not be here now.
She would have been taken in the middle of the night and there
would have been nothing that her mom could have done about it
– in the same way that I was taken in the middle of the night on
October 15th, with a full houseful of mature ladies and children,
and no one heard a thing and all of my property was removed.
MMcD: Exactly.
DB: There was a group which was brought in called the “Ghost
Riders.” They do not make sound while they work. That is their
modus operandi.
MMcD: I brought them in.
DB: She brought them in to have me removed in safety. But there
are other units like them and they would have come in and
probably enforced the treaty issues for the J-Rods.,. and the child,
this beautiful little child that I called Little Troll – she stands
about this tall and she reminds me of a little troll – she would
have been taken in the middle of the night. So what was I
supposed to do? When you love someone, you protect them.
AM: These “Ghost Riders,” are they present day humans?
MMcD: Yes.
DB: Yes. Oh yes. They’re operatives.
MMcD: They’re a crack team.
DB: Yeah. They’re operatives.
MMcD: They’re absolutely a crack team. I brought them in on
the project because I needed the best, the very best I could find,
so I pulled some strings and I asked for some agents. I had
Archie, who is loving and loyal toward us, just because they
happened to have worked with Dan and built great friendships
and become very fond of us all. Plus other Majestic operatives
who were very skilled; they took control of the entrances and
exits of the locations.
DB: Mongrel and Owl were the two who actually removed me
from the apartment. And if you know the names Mongrel and
Owl – Steven and Ryan – they were the ones that actually came
in. It was Steven who put his arms around me and told me I
would be fine.
They came in looking like The Borg. They had their night vision
on and they had weapons out, for fear that members of the
Illuminati were actually inside of the apartment and would have
tried to hold me. They didn’t know for sure. They weren’t able to
watch the apartment that well for fear of being seen themselves,
so it was a situation of a surveillance problem that was going on
at the same time. So they came in with full armor on, automatic
weapons out, and extracted me. In silence, relative silence.
112
MMcD: [talking at the same time as Dan] Yeah. They very
quietly took him into a van. Then the “Ghost Riders” came in,
and in absolute silence removed personal property, extraordinary
amounts of personal property.
DB: The 20-year-old, who was the two-year-old child of Debra
when I married Debra, she actually came out into, as I
understand, through the living room and into the kitchen wearing
a nightie, got herself something to drink, something like a Coca-
Cola or whatever, and the “Ghost Riders” were in the living room
at the time and she never once saw them or heard them. And,
she’s a pretty perceptive young lady.
MMcD: Fifteen feet away.
DB: Yes. Yeah. They’re very good at what they do, and I was
happy that most of the property was removed because most of the
property that I had in there was all of the Lotus data.
MMcD: The Lotus research data – the CDs, and the background
data, the tapes...
DB: We’ve got hundreds of them.
MMcD: There are hundreds, thousands of images that had been
produced over the research. Plus items of personal property that
had been passed to Dan through his family members.
DB: My important hat.
MMcD: His hat...
DB: By the way...
MMcD: His grandfather’s camera. Things like this that are
irreplaceable were spirited out and placed was under lock and key
in various locations, under various vaults...
DB: I’m looking for something here.
MMcD: ...to save them. What are you doing?
DB: I was looking for the card from Grandma and Grandpa but
I’m not finding it. That’s fine. Is it in here? No. Here? No.
AM: So these “Ghost Riders,” are they… [inaudible] cloaking?
MMcD: Oh no, they’re just trained.
DB: No, they’re trained:
MMcD: Talented, and experienced at doing what they do.
DB: After this experience...
[digression] By the way, we went up to one of the nature parks
near the Alps on the first day in. We have some Swiss patches.
I’ve had now a Los Angeles Angels baseball hat on since I was a
little boy. In fact, I had one on the day I was abducted... a
different style “A” at the time, but nevertheless it’s the same
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
team. They were called the California Angels at the time. But I
have never had anything aside from an angel in the center of it
because I do believe in angels.
MMcD: I think it’s because the angels believe in you. [laughter]
DB: I’d appreciate that! Well, we got some patches. But after this
experience with you all... for my entire life I’ve never placed
anything except my name inside my cap, and this angel on it. I’m
going to put the Swiss patch on my hat.
AM: Atta boy, Danny! [audience comments/ laughter]
DB: Yes.
MMcD: Oh!!! [audience member produces an LA Angels hat]
DB: Oh my, that looks like a block “A”.
AM: It is a block “A”.
DB: May I? Thank you. [audience laughter] Would you like to
trade? [more audience laughter]
AM: Sure.
DB: You’ll trade?
AM: Yeah, I don’t mind.
DB: Thank you. See, I got the block “A”. [applause] Thank you!
I got the better deal out of this, you see, because the style of the
“A” in 1973 was approximately this same style... you see little
picks-out, little stylized picks-out, on the side of the “A” for the
more recent baseball caps. So this will be my new baseball cap.
MMcD: What a treasure! Thank you.
DB: Yes, thank you very much. We may have to place a sizer in
it. Let’s see here. Well, why don’t I wear it like this [turns hat
sideways; laughter] we’ll place a sizer in it. But this will be my
new hat. Thank you. Thank you very much.
AM: I bought it last week.
MMcD: It’s the style of the “A” that’s so important.
AM: I know.
MMcD: Yes.
AM: That’s why I [inaudible]
MMcD: You don’t mind, really?
AM: It says “fifty”.
MMcD: It does? It does!
113
AM: That’s my age.
AM2: I got one in ’59 and that’s written inside as well.
MMcD: It is! It is.
DB: Wonderful. Would you sign this for us?
MMcD: Would you sign this?
DB: For us, please? So I can carry your name in this? I won’t tell
anybody if you don’t want it known or anything like that. If
you’d just...
AM: Would you sign mine?
DB: I believe I already have. Let me see if the name... Now,
you’ll probably see a very worn name Crain here. That’s actually
my family name. Marcia and I are going to be legally returning to
my first original name, hopefully within the next few months, so
I will again be known as Danny B. Crain, my original name.
AM: Why did you adopt the name Burisch?
DB: Tiffany, the now 20-year-old, at the time was just going to
be starting school. And so in 1995, I changed over to the name
Burisch because her biological father obviously was not present.
And what we did not want to do – because Deborah at that time
was carrying the name Crain; it was Deborah K. Crain at the time
– we did not want her to have questions asked her at school. So
what we did, because she was carrying the name Burisch...
AM: Deborah was you daughter?
DB: No. Deborah was my wife. Tiffany was my daughter.
Tiffany continued to carry the name Burisch at the insistence of
her grandmother and her grandfather. Her grandfather has now
passed away. Her grandmother is still living.
AM: It was Burisch?
DB: Yes, it was Burisch and she had the name Burisch. However
the wife and myself had the name Crain, so I changed the name
over to Burisch to make it easier on Tiffany.
AM: So it was nothing to do with the legality...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DB: No, it was totally personal. It was a totally personal decision. DB: That the Looking Glass turned white?
[returning to hat topic] Thank you very much for the honor. Do
you want me to place anymore than that in it? AM: Yeah.

AM: It’s not a problem. DB: Maybe he’s talking about the Orion “Cube” because there
were some issues involving the Orion Cube.
DB: All right.
Let me explain something here for a moment, something that the
AM: Yeah. listeners on the Internet may want to hear as well.

DB: Thank you very much. I got the better trade! I got the better We had mentioned about the INRI Cross of Hendaye*. In code,
trade. [laughter] cross, should we pass... Now, the first two numbers for IN just so
happen to add up to 60, which was the number of years that
AM: [inaudible] I’d like to ask you... Majestic existed, leading us toward what was called the SHAR.
That was 1510 as I understand, and then 200 and another 10...
INRI, or 10 and 50 and then 210. [Ed. Note: The Great Cross of
DB: Yes, sir. Hendaye is a stone cross located on the town square of Hendaye,
in the Pyrénées-Atlantiques, in southwestern France. The cross is
AM: ...the difference in the races, between the Orions and the J- carved with alchemical symbols that occultists find to contain
Rods... encrypted information on a future global catastrophe.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Cross_of_Hendaye] AM:
DB: Yes. That’s multiplication… [unclear]?

AM: By the way, as an aside, how did the name J-Rod come into DB: Sure.
use?
AM: That is the Kabbalistic approach that let us have an
DB: The name J-Rod was originated through communications associated...
between multiple J-Rods and a unit called Sigma. This was the
communications and linguistics unit which was working for the DB: That’s Gematria.
Majestic.
AM: Okay. But what I know is that in the Hebrew alphabet there
What he did is he identified himself as a number. And how he did are no vowels.
that is he picked the J, which is the tenth letter in the English
alphabet... They know what the J looks like! Well, what do you DB: No...?
want me to do with this? [Marcia draws out a “J” and a horizontal
rod to describe the “J-Rod” name.]They picked the tenth letter in
the English alphabet, which is J. AMs [many voices]: Vowels, vowels.

AM: So it was Ten or something. DB: The Niqqud is a vowel system added to that.

DB: That was Ten. And he pointed toward an inertial bar symbol AM: Okay. Thank you.
which was also in the teleprompter system in the Clean Sphere,
which looked like a rod or an inertial bar. To him that meant AM2: Can I ask you a question?
“Five” because it was a combination involving the Mayan
number system. So Ten and Five was 15. The name J-Rod simply DB: I’m not a linguist though, please... [to audience member]
means 15. He identified himself as coming from a base, a Sure.
temporary base, 15 light-years from Earth. That is the origin of
the name J-Rod.
AM2: [inaudible] I want to know because the disaster is supposed
to have happened right about now in the Timeline... Timeline
AM: I like to ask a question about the Looking Glass. Is there an One?
explanation why the Looking Glass could not see beyond 2012?
Because there was...
DB: Yes. Well, that would have been what we nicknamed
Timeline Two.
DB: It did.
AM2: Okay.
AM: Was it with time portals? There was something written...
DB: And it was a very dark nickname but it was a nickname
DB: No, there were views that went up for several hundred years nonetheless.
past 2012.
AM2: So we’re now on Timeline One, are we?
AM: David said it turned white.

114
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DB: I’m not sure what we’re on right now.
AM2: Okay. It doesn’t really matter how we designate it.
DB: Right and that’s the whole point.
AM: [inaudible] …and then the Orions were supposed to have
left the Earth first and then...
DB: Yes. Several thousand years after the disaster, yes.
AM: There’s something that doesn’t quite stack up here. First of
all, would they have had the technology to do that?
DB: Several thousand years after the disaster, yes. We’re talking
a large expanse of time after the disaster before they ever began
reconstituting themselves, before we did on the surface of the
Earth, reconstitute ourselves to the point to leave.
AM: Okay.
DB: We’re talking about a lot of time here.
AM: Okay. But the Orions... You said the Orions, somewhere, I
think it was on your interview on Camelot. You said the Orions
left at the time of the catastrophe.
DB: No.
MMcD: No.
DB: No, and if that’s written anywhere, please show us where
because that would be wrong.
MMcD: It has to be corrected.
AM2: I think it was stated that they left 2000 years after this.
AM1: Okay. Well, the site...
DB: That’s fine. That’s fine.
AM: And since they did that, does this mean... I think I asked this
before... that we’re never going to see them again? Because we’re
on the wrong Timeline.
DB: Well, as I said, I understand a couple of different things. I
understand that there were teams left behind in case the disaster
still occurred. These individuals ostensibly would know that they
may not be able to go home again.
AM: Because it doesn’t exist?
DB: Ah... well, they may not be able to traverse the wormhole
system again after we get done with the transit. I’m not certain
about that.
AM: But does that mean that we’re never going to see any other
aliens again?
115
DB: No, and in fact this is why... this is why I raised... Oh, boy. I
raised the specter of a couple hundred years of viewing with the
Looking Glass. And I also raised the issue of INRI on the Cross
of Hendaye.
We mentioned the first two adding up to 60, meaning the number
of years from the time of the inception of Majestic to its official
ending, by the end of the orders, 2007. Now, of course, they
officially broke off at the end of 2005, but the orders... they stood
adjourned to the completion of the orders. The completion of the
orders ended, technically, at the end of 2006. So if you count
from 2007, and you add the last two numbers up on the Cross of
Hendaye, that is exactly the date that was seen as the date of first
alien contact.
AM: Yes. Who were we contacting? Was it the J-Rods or the...
DB: No. A true alien of non-human lineage. First true alien
contact. That would place it along about 2217 or 2218. That kind
of hurt me when I found out personally because I would like to
meet a true alien. I have met an extraterrestrial but not an alien. I
have met an extraterrestrial of human lineage, several of them,
but not a true alien.
AM: So we are not going to see any extraterrestrials of human
lineage anymore?
DB: We should not. The public should not.
AM: [inaudible] How disappointing.
DB: Thinking empirically, yes.
AM: Are there existing records, including movie, film, or video,
of the J-Rods?
DB: Yes sir. Oh, yes sir.
AM: [inaudible] ...of the J-Rods or anything...
DB: Oh yes sir. For instance, all of my interactions – and there
were well over 100 direct interactions in the Clean Sphere – all of
the interactions were video/audio taped from multiple directions.
Marcia, in fact, at her very short time when she toured S4, saw
some of the videos.
They are obviously highly secure and I wish they would not be.
It’d be the greatest thing in my life, to be honest with you, with
some of the questions that have been raised and some of the
statements and the labels that have been applied to us, if they’d
just release the darn videos and let it be and let people claim that
they’re hoaxed. You know? Fine. Okay?
But, you know, in any group... well, I can only speak for some of
the UFOlogical groups that we’ve interacted with in the U.S.
We’ve been treated...
MMcD: Poorly.
DB: ... much more politely here.
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MMcD: Oh. Here? Very polite.
BD: Much more politely. In fact, while we were walking toward
the Volkshaus for the panel interview that had not yet occurred, I
looked over at Marcia and I said: This now raises the specter of
my having to ask certain people in our beloved country who are
involved in UFOlogical organizations: Exactly what is your
major malfunction? [laughter] These people get it. What’s wrong
here? Is it just anxiety because of our culture, or what? But...
MMcD: Right. Our own UFOlogical people are basically...
[makes a gesture that makes audience laugh] You know?
AM: [inaudible] ... In the book of William Hamilton, Behold a
Pale Horse, he mentioned that all the UFO magazines, that they
penetrated... [inaudible]
BD: Yes sir. At least most... well, I can say rather authoritatively
that all of them within the United States have been. We have the
Majestic Folkloristics Unit in place to provide as much
disinformation to the population as they can foist on them.
AM: They did a good job, yeah?
DB: Yeah, they did a good job confusing people about this.
MMcD: We are at the 5-minutte mark and I’ll give you a one-
minute.
DB: Then you drag me off the stage...
AM: Dan, may I ask you a question?
DB: No. [laughter]
AM: Well, I asked you before on a post, and you had made a
judgment.
DB: And, and during the telephone call we had. Wonderful
telephone call.
AM: I was probably one of the last persons to talk to you over the
telephone.
DB: Via phone... that’s quite possible...
AM: Okay.
DB: ... given what Marcia’s intending.
AM: Very nice. Thank you very much.
DB: In fact, you, you, aside from our close personal friends,
having to do with the Golden Thread, the dash golden thread dot
proboards dot com. [ http://the-goldenthread.proboards.com/ ]
MMcD: The real one.
DB: The real one.
116
MMcD: The pleasant one.
DB: The pleasant one, the polite one, the one where people who
were from the original inception of the Golden Thread... we’ll
call it Book One, and we’ll call this Golden Thread Book Two,
kind of like The Tale of Two Cities. The second book is called the
Golden Thread, but... ah... please, please.
AM: Yes, I was just wondering if you had one of your drawings
of the J-Rods with you?
DB: Oh.
AM: Because of course we would love to see how he would look
like.
MMcD: Yes. I don’t think we brought any here.
DB: That one I didn’t plan. I’m not certain if I have one here or
not. If not, we’ll put an image up on the front of
EaglesDisobey.net for everyone to see. I have done one, a hand
drawing, and I’ve done a couple of computer graphic drawings.
Okay.
AM: What is all this stuff going around relating to the alien ___
2017? [inaudible]
MMcD: That’s what’s encoded into the Cross of Hendaye.
AM: Yes, but Dan just said that the first contact … [inaudible]
DB: It’s 2200... 2217.
MMcD: Maybe I mis-heard you. I’m sorry.
AM: Well, he was saying 2017… [inaudible] And Dan was just
saying 22 …
MMcD: Well, I’m saying... the cross.
DB: Well, in my opinion... my opinion on this?
AM: Sure.
DB: Is that absolutely it could happen. That’s my opinion. Being
that we’re on a path that we do not know, who knows? Yet this
was encoded... this was encoded via J-Rod contact. So that
encoding, even the encoding on the Cross of Hendaye, it says that
there are two catastrophes. Well, we’ve avoided one of them
already. So why not the second catastrophe being avoided? And
why not the date of first contact which was indicated on the cross
be avoided as well?
MMcD: It maybe shifted.
DB: It makes perfect sense.
AM: It maybe shifted because of all the [unclear; overtalking
Dan] to avoid the …
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DB: No, we do not have one of those images with us. I’m sorry.
MMcD: We completely derailed the encoding because it was
based on their history, whereas we have made significant changes
now and made changes in the catastrophe.
AM: So anything could happen …
MMcD: So, we’re on a new path.
AM: Right. So they could Disclose in my lifetime.
MMcD: It could! We’re on a completely new path.
DB: Yes, I’m hoping.... I am hoping it happens. I want to see it.
MMcD: Me too, I would love it.
DB: I want to see human beings on Mars. Obviously we have a
certain fascination with Mars. When we get back, we’ll show
some images, too.
AM: If you could make this clear for me... once we went to a new
line, Timeline, everything has to change. I mean, how is it
possible that still some things from the other line can pop out in
our new lines?
[Everyone talking at once]
DB: Well, reality... reality. [audience overtalking Dan] All right.
Reality, as I understand it is...
MMcD: Stop. Stop. [everyone talking] All right. Thank you, but
could I have you please repeat your question?
AM: The question is that once we have changed the Timeline, it’s
like changing a railroad track, we go to a different direction. So
therefore I don’t quite get it, how is it possible if we have avoided
already one catastrophe... so we are already on a different train
track. How is it possible that still future events can hop onto the
next track?
DB: Right, I don’t personally view it because of the contact with
the J-Rods that they are separate physical Newtonian tracks as in
physical... like if I drop this, it’s going to move toward the center
of the Earth – Newtonian tracks.
This is more a quantum issue that has actually leapt over into our
reality, that our reality is actually a multiverse reality, yet the
transducers that we have in our heads are allowing us to see only
one of the universes.
In other words, as he understood it and told me, which was quite
mind-blowing to me, that when we pass away and these
transducers are no longer functioning, we then become part of the
multiverse, and so we find out that all of our other selves, even
all of the other parts of ourselves, and everyone else, are all
together in one location. That’s the unity which is underlying the
system of reality, as he indicated.
117
So things can phase in, things can phase out, and we may be
looking across several Timelines at one another and may be
actually reducing by agreement with each other – while we’re on
the other side – reducing by agreement with each other what
we’re willing to accept as reality.
It’s a rather complicated thing and if you don’t understand it,
you’re right with me, because I’ve been trying to understand that
as well. [to audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: I would like to make a comment.
DB: Yes.
AM: I would like to make a comment. [inaudible] The different
dates, 2017 and 2218... It could be there exists footage and
nobody is aware, or very few people are aware of, of parallel
worlds.
DB: What?
AM: Parallel worlds.
MMcD: Parallel.
DB: Yeah. There is footage of that from the Orion Cube. This
Cube, which was given to Eisenhower in 1954 as a gift, which
was an exchange of technology at the inception of the treaty
process...
Depending upon the user, that gift you could have some influence
on. Your personal disposition could cause what you were seeing
to differ because of the probabilistic nature of it. And there were
parallel issues seen which could not be subtracted out as just
“probables” of us here and now, so in fact that’s probably
substantiated, what you’re suggesting. And that also was a
quantum over-the-horizon-looking device.
AM: Do you think people are ready, if this… [inaudible] got to
be released? Are the people living ready for them or not?
DB: Given what I saw last night, and what I saw here today, and
even the night before, the answer is: Yes.
MMcD: Now, this gentlemen back here has been very patient.
AM: [inaudible] Yes, ah...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DB: Oh, another question from our friend. No, that’s great.
[laughter]
MMcD: We’re looking at a four-minute window to a break.
AM: What you’re saying is pretty much what I’m saying, or what
I was told on the Internet about Michio Kaku He said that
multiple universes exist, that every possibility in the other
universe exists. So that means that you have today this shirt, but
in other universe you choose other shirt, and in another universe
you have coffee in the morning or don’t have coffee in the
morning, and, you know...
DB: Wait a minute now. I don’t... [laugher]
AM: That’s what I wanted to ask, how you think about that.
DB: Yes. [thoughtful pause] Yes. I can absolutely accept that
within my personal philosophy.
AM: To say that some things from the other Timeline can be true
in this Timeline?
DB: It can phase in and out. And I think that my agreement –
given that there’s a unity underlying all of reality – we may have
agreed to be, as Bill said, on this adventure together.
AM: Yeah.
DB: And that is a really cool thing.
MMcD: I look at it a little bit differently, and I’m not sure if this
makes sense or not.
DB: Facets.
MMcD: But I’m seeing it as facets. Look at a big gemstone... and
you cut all these beautiful, beautiful facets in the big gemstone,
beautiful facets, and every time you look into the gemstone, it’s a
little bit different. Now, how you look into the gemstone is how
you see the gemstone, but, it’s still the same gemstone.
So maybe when we’re looking at the gemstone here [indicates a
slant, then moves position]... and now we’ve made changes. Now
we’re looking at [indicates straight position] this section of the
gemstone. It’s the same gemstone.
DB: Mm hm. When we finish after the break, we’re going to
show you some images that you might enjoy seeing. We have
images here with us from Emanation of the Solfeggio, which is
our latest eBook that’s available on our website.
The foreword is by Leonard Horowitz, Dr. Leonard Horowitz.
See? So, if anybody asks about emerging viruses, issues like that,
Leonard and we have a regular communication stream. We’re
aware. We are aware and we’re just trying to be responsible with
everything. [to audience member] Yes.
AM: Do you share a point of view with David Wilcock on his
overview regarding 2012? Or do you have, obviously, a different
point of view? DB: I’m not understanding the...
118
MMcD: I don’t understand.
AM2: Let me ask it: Do you agree with David Wilcock on his
opinion about possible 2012 and...
DB: Ah... specifically which opinion?
AM: Well, he’s very optimistic.
DB: Oh, yes.
MMcD: Yes, optimistic.
DB: Oh, yes. Yes. Well, we had some personal fear when we
walked in on the morning of March 28, 2009, that the Pacific
Ocean may be greeting us in a Las Vegas valley. We still knew in
our hearts that we were going to survive, and that is exactly what
we believe. [to audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: This is a simple question about the treaties. Can you
elaborate which nations have participated and how their members
have been selected?
DB: The representatives were selected via the Committee of the
Majority interaction with the United Nations. The person who
actually brokered the political agreement creating the Committee
of the Majority, and bringing the treaty system even more into an
internationalized view, was Indira Gandhi.
Most of the UN nations are treaty signatories to the OF-9 and Tau
IX Treaties. However, they probably won’t tell you openly this.
AM: So it’s a lot of countries, then?
DB: Yes, Sir.
AM: And within the countries, do you know how the
representatives have been selected?
DB: The representatives were selected at the times that the
countries actually came into the information. The U.S. sat on it
for a long period of time as a military issue. It was only in 1953,
when the actual first Aquarius Project was formed, that they
became certain that there were time travelers.
Previous to that, I think it was 1941 or ’42 at Cape Girardeau...
has anybody heard of that? A crash in Missouri? There was
actually a [William] Huffman, a Reverend, who gave last rites
over some crashed beings – beings – and no one understood at
the time why he was giving last rites to them. He was giving last
rites to them because there was a communication underway as
they were dying that they were human beings, therefore the issue
of last rites, as within our culture, was appropriate for them, that
they actually sought it out via communication with him.
But a number of countries and how those delegates were picked
was via communication with the nation-states at the time, and
then those individual nation-states selected individuals to the
Committee of the Majority, and then they became parties to the
treaty.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
MMcD: Ladies and gentlemen, I was told to please engineer a
break at 11:00 and it’s 11:01.
[15 minute intermission, workshop resumes]
DB: A question was asked during the break concerning the
appearance of the J-Rod. I was asked: Well, was the J-Rod solid?
Yes, the J-Rod was solid, but the J-Rod also appeared off-shifted
in a strange way. That’s about the best I can explain it. I don’t
really have words to indicate it save maybe to say he didn’t
appear as though he “belonged”.
You can look across the table and see another human being
across the table and we know we belong here. There was
something... Aside from what he looked like and how the
communication was underway, there was just something wrong,
and I think that something wrong was a separation issue.
MMcD: Actually this is a segue and a very good relational
question because I was asked at the break if I could propose a
question to Dan on behalf of one of the members of the Ground
Crew. She would like to know more about the occasion in the
Clean Sphere when you were suited up and you happened to have
a procedural break wherein the J-Rod stepped toward you out of
the procedural format and you stepped backward, catching your
foot.
DB: Well, you know what? [to Marci] I’m going to go ahead and
put you on the spot first, then, with this...
MMcD: Oh no....
DB: ...which will ultimately probably not weigh well for me, but
tell them about the first time that we met at Vashti’s.
MMcD: [laughs] Well, all right, all right. The question actually
segues, but the full question was: The communication that took
place at that moment, could you elaborate slightly?
DB: I understand.
MMcD: The very first time that I met Dan was in 1980...
DB: You’ll understand in a moment why I asked her.
MMcD: ...at a party. I had been actually taken around Europe,
taken around different parts of the United States and different
parts of the world because my family was trying to introduce me
to “the right people.” I didn’t know at the time that my father was
a Majestic courier under the Forrestal administration. He was
required to go from country to country to country carrying
sensitive Majestic documents, but I never knew that.
But they wanted me to... they were grooming me. So I happened
to be at a party at Vashti Bunyan’s farm up in northern England,
Scotland.
DB: It was called Western Cumbersheeny [googled it, looked
around on a map of the Cumbernauld area and did not find
119
anything, so the spelling of this is just unclear] It was technically
up in the Cumbernauld area of Scotland.
MMcD: And this party... actually the father of Vashti Bunyan
was the gentleman with whom Dan was staying in England and
studying microbiology, working with him under his tutelage as a
young man of my father’s, so he brought Dan to the party. I was
having a wonderful time and I noticed this rather gangly 16-year-
old young man...
DB: Gangly? [laughter]
MMcD: ...looking at me.
DB: Gee, thanks.
MMcD: His eyes went like that. [makes a wide-eyed expression]
DB: A red-haired goddess walked in.
MMcD: Oh... well, I was a lot younger and... [laughter] Anyway,
he managed to step backwards toward the kitchen door opening
and put his foot right into a silver trashcan, at which point he
stumbled backwards right through into the kitchen... [makes
falling flat gesture; audience laughs] That’s how I first remember
him, and then met him. So when he fell backwards in the Clean
Sphere, it was no surprise. [laughter]
DB: It was for different reasons, though. I was not taken by the J-
Rod as I was taken by you. [laughs] It was a whole different
series of emotions, trust me.
What happened is when we were introduced, we would go
through medical checks, be actually suited, initially deconned
[decontaminated] and then placed in a gantry ramp and wheeled
over to the Clean Sphere. We would then have to hose into the
Clean Sphere, open up air lines and emergency ducts, and also do
communications checks.
While all of this was going on, I was supposed to be having all of
the information about what I was supposed to do inside there
already memorized, look good doing it, because if you didn’t, the
number Two Channel that was going up to the surveillance unit
inside of S4 would be telling you to get back to work. And then I
would be introduced into the Clean Sphere. I was to step to the
right.
There was an anthropomorphic symbol, a symbol of a human
being giving [demonstrates friendly wave of hand]... a friendly
symbol, which was a real joke for Chi'el'ah because I would stand
there and go like this [raises hand to wave hello] and he would be
laughing at me while I did it. [laughter]
And then I was supposed to do the “bridal step” toward him,
indicating that I was a friend stepping toward him inside of the
unit that I had mentioned before for the linguistics, the Sigma
Unit’s protocols. So I would do a “bridal step”. [demonstrates]
Well, he got a little cheeky one day with me, and as I took a step
forward, he took a step forward. Now, I kind of suppressed my
emotions about it at that point, because no matter how friendly he
was with me and I was with him – even unbeknownst to Majestic
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
in there and the operations team, how much we were talking
amongst each other – he was still who he was and I was still who
I was... and he was handling who I was a lot easier than what I
was handling who he was.
I then summoned my guts up and took another “bridal step”
forward. And when he stepped forward again at me, still laughing
at me – and I could hear him laughing through me as I kind of
felt like I was falling toward him – I panicked. I had this visceral
response. I panicked and I stepped backward. As I stepped
backward I hit either my right or my left shoe, I don’t remember
which, to be honest; however, that video, I hope to God, is never
played. [laughter] But I stepped backward and caught one of my
heels on one of the grates. As I did so, I fell over backward.
Now, I was in a very unwieldy suit which was slightly too small
for me. I was in a woman’s totally encapsulated... essentially
Moon suit. I’m not that big of a guy and the only thing that would
fit me, the only totally encapsulated unit that would fit me there,
was the one female biowarfare suit that they had. So they would
fit the bell on me and it was slightly too short on me, so the bell
would actually press down on the top of my head with a ring on
the inside of the bell, and it was actually painful. It was also very
difficult to walk... essentially an Apollo-type Moon suit that one
would expect.
Well, when I fell over backward I was lying...
MMcD: He looked like a cockroach.
DB: A cockroach [flailing his arms] doing this business.
[laughter] Well, when I began reaching out... I was panicking, as
it was, when I fell backward and I began stretching my arms out
trying to right myself. At that point he continued to step toward
me and actually walked up onto my chest.
Now I’m in a worse panic, but he began to entrain me and raise
the Hertz level that he was entraining me with, to begin flooding
me with the enkephalons, the opiates, with which to calm me.
MMcD: To calm him down... [inaudible]
DB: To calm me. Now, I knew at that moment that I was okay.
Well, you have enough opiates flooding your brain, you’re going
to think you’re okay anyway, no matter what. But I felt fine.
And then I was listening at that same time between Channel 1
and Channel 2, flipping back and forth inside of the bell, because
I could hear it literally ringing inside of the bell from my earpiece
that they were preparing to change the pressure inside of the
Clean Sphere to harm the J-Rod.
That is how they... It’s a process called intumescence, where they
would actually cause pain by changing the atmospheric pressure.
You know, if you fly your ears might hurt?
Well, they can change the pressure enough to cause extreme pain
to the body, and his body was of less density – and I don’t mean
as some people have described third, fourth and all that density;
that’s a little bit beyond my understanding – as in mass-over-
volume-density, physical density. He was of less density than
120
what we are, given his physical conditions under which he grew.
So they were getting ready to fire the repress valves in there.
MMcD: They were getting ready to hurt him severely.
DB: Yes. To knock him off of me. They thought I was being
attacked. I may have been, but it was not with a negative
intention from him.
I then fell back into... I was lying down. I’m saying I drifted back
into what he was communicating, and had very little command
over what I was doing at that point. The communication went on
for some time and all I remember seeing are streams of...
[speaking to Ground Crew member] Can you put Zurich 15 up, if
you please? Thank you very much. There it is... streams of that.
[picture of very jagged lines]
That is what their shadow language actually looks like, or looked,
depending upon your personal consideration about what
happened to them. I’d like to think looks, because he had a boy
and I hope that he’s at home with his son now.
Marcia has presently in Las Vegas 450 diary volumes full of that.
AM: What does this represent?
DB: That is in fact the shadow language of the J-Rods. They
would hold their hands – some of you can see the shadow here? –
under a projected light and they would actually communicate as a
passing screen was recording it.
Their language is composed of three separate parts: a central
feature reading from right to left, but a central feature which is
either an ideogram or a constant, and then vowels.
So if you see items like this, for instance from the P24 crafts, the
I-beams from Roswell, those are actually vowels that are on the I-
beam. [pointing to screen]
We’ve got 450 volumes of it. Most of the time that he was
downloading the information, it simply streamed into my brain
looking as what you see here. This was written by me from right
to left, and if you think of 450 diary volumes full of it, that is
what Marcia is the caretaker of.
AM: You wrote it, actually?
DB: Yes. It has been projected into a negative for the purpose of
the showing today because Stan Goldstein, the former chief
psychologist for the Consistory of the Majestic suggested that it
might be less—I don’t know why—less shocking.
My concern was this: I had a concern about showing this at all.
Marcia wanted me to show it. I was concerned that being an
abductee myself, that some of you may have seen something of
this nature. In fact, this was planned to be shown the first night,
the first interview, but everything was somewhat moved, derailed
and shifted and changed in the conversation.
MMcD: Rearranged.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DB: So this was actually written as a black on white paper. It’s
all written with black on white paper.
So I had this streaming in, and at the same time I found myself
inside of what appeared to be another reality, a 3-D hologram,
like a holodeck from Star Trek, and was being shown other
items... for instance his home; items concerning historical items,
which I honestly have to... Our own historical items, which I
have to be very careful about because there are many
perspectives in this room, and I don’t wish to offend anyone, so I
will be very reticent to speak about certain things.
For instance, we don’t go to religious issues. I feel that we’re put
here to understand one another and to exist with separate
religions – this is my personal feeling – to exist with separate
religions so that we can understand God via our differences and
where we can find common ground. So the specific items that he
may have shown me concerning that genre, I would be very
reticent to...
MMcD: He showed you images of his home.
DB: He did. His planet, his society, his school, where he
functioned. He showed me the Gliese system [Gliese 581] where
they departed from, and many other things.
This is in fact [points to lines on screen] part of the actual decode
which contained the March 28, 2009 date. It was cut off
because... well, the line just continued, so I took it where it
mentions March 28, 2009, but I should not – I beg your
forgiveness – I should not say where it says March 28, 2009 in it.
That will provide a potential for a linguist’s primer as to how to
read their language.
Now, if they have been part of us but were separated as a
partition from our species, this language may never officially
exist, even though you’re seeing it. It may never officially exist.
If it is decodable from what we have up here, then so be it, we’ve
shown you the truth to that extent. So be it. But we should not
give a dictionary: this is what an “A” looks like, this is what a
“B” looks like. That would be a very bad idea, personally, I feel
right now. At least right now. I mean, my opinions could change
but personally... [to audience member] Yes, Sir?
AM: Can you read it yourself?
DB: Yes sir. Marcia has, in fact, had me... This was the inception
of the big problem for March 28, 2009, save the date itself. This
indicated March 28, 2009. This is actually the transliteration into
English, the best one that we could form.
Now, you may see the word at the start... Beanie / B-N-E. That’s
what he personally called me because I was asked about my
childhood when he was talking to me about his childhood, and I
told him that I was a great fan of Cecil and Beanie, a cartoon, a
US cartoon.
MMcD: In the United States, a cartoon back in the ’50s and ’60s.
I used to watch it, too. It was cute.
121
DB: Earth was referred to as E-R-T. This is actually the date for
three days, and it placed it at MARSAY [or MARS-A] which is
March.
E-N-G was his way of speaking about Great Britain, and that’s
why I said the only country on the Net... in tight [or type]
testimony, the only country that was actually named in this was
England. But that is how they remembered the name for England.
It was just called E-N-G.
MMcD: Well, you have to think what do we exactly know and
remember from 2000 years ago? How much do we? We weren’t
there, so how much do we really remember and know? How
about if you were to try to remember what happened 52,000 years
ago? How much would we know for sure and remember? We
would have at best bits and pieces of it. I think it’s the same type
of thing.
DB: And this was the greatest concern, too. The greatest concern
for us was March 28, 2009... we’re talking a 52,000 year
difference.
AM: Does this describe catastrophe?
DB: Yes. In fact it says: Join no more sea, a specific indication
concerning the moment of the beginning of the catastrophe which
would result in our partitioning. But the thing which gave me
hope, great hope when I read it, was Time Ancients – that’s us,
the cavemen and women – Time Ancients must decide joining.
And that’s all of us.
MMcD: We have to decide. This is up to us.
DB: And when that was decoded with it -- that gave me a great
deal of hope for our future.
AM: What was the catastrophe about? ... [inaudible]... forward
looking ...
DB: The catastrophe was approximated with the use of a
wormhole access technology on Earth which then caused a
between 1-and-4-degree geophysical Pole shift of the planet
Earth. The mantle and crust slid. It was an aesthenosphere
situation where it slid and some waters actually poured out, some
of the mantle waters under high pressure that have been
discovered, poured out as well, and there was a great inundation.
Now, one individual walked up after the interview and showed
me a photograph of a rainbow. And so that’s the one thing, a
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
rainbow, that personally, from my own personal history, that has
really lifted me up inside, emotionally, spiritually, lifted me up.
His bow and the clouds.
MMcD: Bow -- a rainbow in the clouds.
DB: We were promised in the Hebrew holy books that we would
not be destroyed by water again.
MMcD: And the evidence of the rainbow in the clouds gave us
great hope.
DB: Great hope.
MMcD: Great hope.
DB: So anyway, the download, the majority of it, looked and
looks like this. And so Marcia has had me decoding now, slowly
moving through the books and decoding the diaries. I didn’t
know what I was writing when I wrote it. It was simply shoved in
and then pushed back out onto the papers.
AM: Were you in a trance when you wrote this, or can you
translate it? [inaudible]
DB: No. I can go page by page only somewhat now. It’s starting
to fade.
MMcD: Let me give you an example.
DB: I can only remember so much.
MMcD: When Dan reads, because of the way that his mind is
wired to function and designed, he does not read so much as
memorize. For example, when on one occasion, I needed to go to
a certain image in order to facilitate the research, I asked him if
he could remember what book it came from, and he went: The
book name, the book page, halfway up the page, located at this
shelf over to the right, this level of the library, there. I went:
Huh? I went there.
DB: I’m not special, I’m just different.
MMcD: I went there. I went to the book. I opened the book up. I
opened up the page and there was the image.
DB: Now, perhaps these ladies and gentlemen would like to hear
you on the morning of March 28, 2009. Now, I had previously
indicated – I’m not sure if this was before everybody came into
the room or not – that you might hear some mean tones out of
Marcia.
We had people that were present who helped sign the treaties. We
lured them. With them not knowing that March 28, 2009 was the
date, we lured them to Las Vegas and had them put up in hotels
in Las Vegas. We made sure Stephen and Brian were in charge of
the operation. We made sure because we had enough people there
that they would be unable to leave the night before the meeting. I
don’t want to...
MMcD: They were our guests.
122
DB: They were our guests whether they wished to remain our
guests or not. [laughter] Another reason is, a couple of the people
that we had present were those who had my name added to the
treaty system as well.
MMcD: We were pretty upset about that.
DB: Well, yeah, because I never assented to my name being
added to the treaty system, but...
MMcD: I wanted to make sure they had a ringside seat. [laughter]
DB: They had a series of western-facing rooms between 15 and
25 floors up. We did, in fact, have the bolts removed from the
windows in this particular hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In case
they would happen to see the oceans coming from the West, they
were welcome to leave their room by any means other than the
room’s door. [laughter]
MMcD: They were not real happy with us.
DB: If humanity was going to drown like rats, so were they.
AM: What is the status of the treaty?
DB: The treaty is going to be expunged at the end of 2020. We
were told right before the operation happened where Marcia
actually had me extracted. She and I were having conversations
about that and we said we can’t wait another twelve years. We’d
waited 18 years to be together – 18. Add another twelve to that?
We wanted some life left in us, and not to be held apart any
further, and so we took the risk. She took the risk that day.
MMcD: Damn right.
DB: We figured that they would be too busy with the formation
of the new group, the new group of Illumes that came into the
five councils. There are five separate councils, five councils that
are called the Areopagites of the Illuminati. I cannot officially
name them, meaning who is seated at the heads of those five
councils, or that would be considered something that they would
directly eliminate me for.
So, I’ve got to be honest: Marcia and I do want a future together
for ourselves, too. If we can do anything from behind the scenes
to get them outed by other means, that could happen, but directly
naming them... nobody appointed me, and even if they did, it
doesn’t matter. I’m not somebody who’s willing to spread his
arms out and have nails put in them. I’m just a human being and I
just want a life with my wife, so I’m doing the best I can.
[applause] Thank you. [to audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: What is the best way to learn more about the content of the
treaties? Are there records somewhere, or have you spoke in
interviews, or...?
DB: Not much. Not much. Marcia and I have been considering
doing an entire DVD concerning the specific content. We just
haven’t gotten to it yet. It’s a matter of time. We’ll get a copy of
this record. I’m sure I’ll remember it and we’ll consider doing it.
The next DVD I think she wants us to do is about the Q-94.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
MMcD: The next DVD I actually have asked him to do is a line-
by-line examination of the Q-94 document with attendant
science.
DB: There have been criticisms of that document. Let me find
something here, briefly… There we are.
Most of the criticisms of the document have come from unnamed
sources. One person was allegedly the head of a medical school
on the east coast of the United States and said: Oh, this is just all
gobbledy-gook.
Well, to start with, if you sit in a chair as a professor, at least
within the United States... I can’t speak about other universities
around the world... there is a great deal of pressure to keep your
job, to conform to dogma.
Initially the individual with whom I had a conversation about the
Q-94 document was a Ph.D. in neurophysiology. His name is,
well, we’ll just say Dr. Green, who is associated with people who
are associated to a group called the Aviary. Now remember what
I said about the Aviary.
Here was, from Monday February 2, 2004, my birthday, a
message that came via Skywatcher22@hotmail.com– and that’s
Bill Hamilton, a UFO researcher.
“Subject: One more comment and message for Dr. Dan.
Today I wish to offer Dr. Dan Burisch a happy 40th birthday.
May you one day be recognized for your work. Dr. Green wrote,
“It would be foolish for me to ask about a specific area of
molecular biology in which I am not as advanced as is he, Dan.
His writings on profound biochemical and genetic postulates are
beyond my single medical school course in pathophysiology.”
Yet, when I refused, right around the same time that I refused to
buy into the garbage, the disinformation coming from the Aviary
having to do with Serpo – Oh, right! It’s right out of a Stargate
movie – with Serpo, with what mysteriously happened at Gate 3,
yet they couldn’t find even our names in a search string prior to
us going to CalTech to speak and our names were on the CalTech
website.
MMcD: For about a year.
DB: Well, you can still find the abstract there. They have such
deep contacts, they claim, inside the United States government
that they can’t do a simple search on the Internet? Something
wrong here! Now all of a sudden, it’s allegedly all gobbledy-
gook.
MMcD: We won’t buy in, so suddenly they change their tone.
DB: So, what I’ve been asking ever since that day is: Who is the
person saying this? Because this person was allegedly a female
doctor, head of a medical school, and member of the National
Academy of Sciences. Oh, boy! Give me her name because I’m
going to marry her to her comments, forever.
I’m going to go line by line, one way or the other, through the Q-
94 document and we will reference the comments in the Q-94
123
document to published peer-reviewed literature. So let them keep
talking. [to audience member] Yes sir. AM: You mentioned
Serpo just then. What do you make of that whole...?
DB: It’s disinformation.
MMcD: Total garbage.
AM: Is it true?
DB: No. It’s total garbage.
MMcD: It’s garbage.
DB: There was no exchange program like that.
AM: Perhaps this was a way to... who went through... [inaudible]
DB: No, no, no.
AM: I wrote a story about it. [laughs]
MMcD: [talking over Dan] This story’s all over the place, but it’s
garbage.
DB: I know, I know. I’m sorry. If you wrote a story about it, you
obviously referenced the individuals who were claiming things.
AM: Yes.
DB: There’s nothing wrong with that. I wrote about it, too. The
name Serpo is an old K-4, and old NATO K-4 code that they
appropriated. The individuals involved in the Aviary are well
aware of that, at least one of them, because he was involved in
the military... well, a couple of them were. But it’s an old K-4
code that was written backward, the word Opres, the word for
Operation Rehearsal.
At the same time that we were coming up with the information
that we were coming up with, and told to tell the truth to the
public, what they were doing is that they were doing a rehearsal
to see how much garbage they could purvey on you. [laughter]
[to audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: What venue is the connection between these councils of
Majestic – Scion – and top government officials, heads of state?
DB: If you go to the Project Camelot website, the signed
affidavits sworn under penalty of perjury... we placed our liberty
on the line. We placed our liberty on the line for this. If anyone
wishes to challenge those affidavits anywhere in the world, as
long as we’re appropriately transferred to those locations, we’re
happy to do this.
In one of those affidavits I named the names of the last Twelve,
who are the seated last Twelve. As a follow-on to that, as Scion
took over, the number was reduced from twelve to nine
individuals. Those individuals... I’m in approximately the same
position about naming those individuals as what I am concerning
the five Areopagites. Very dangerous.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
MMcD: I can’t ask him to go there because of safety and security
reasons for us.
AM: Can I ask a question about the Serpo?
DB: [to audience member] Yes, Sir, I saw you.
AM: You mentioned Bill Hamilton. I have a question about what
you mentioned yesterday about reverse-engineering for, you
know, free energy purposes.
DB: Yes.
AM: I understand from an interview that Project Camelot did
with Gordon Novel that he’s supposedly doing the same and
since I’ve heard his name on that also, I’m trying to put the facts
together. Are there different groups trying to reverse-engineer
stuff? Are they disconnected or the same people involved in
different things?
DB: Okay. We’re going to go ahead and get difficult here.
Everyone knows or may know about the issues that I’ve had with
one Mr. George Knapp of KLAS-TV8. All right. He and I had an
issue which occurred in 1990, and he’s had some issues with me
ever since. I love the guy. He’s a good jovial investigative
reporter, kind of. MMcD: Just as an aside... there was a panel in
1990. He tried to pin Dan down about a statement about where he
was working, which was at the time Area 51, and he was a big
company man. I’m not going to talk about it. He tried to pin him
down about it, and Dan was ready for him, and he embarrassed
him in front of a whole live audience, and George has never
forgiven him.
DB: I was a company man at the time. I didn’t even know that
ETs existed, not for sure. I had been abducted out of the park, but
I really didn’t know what happened way earlier in 1973. I only
really learned about what happened many years later.
And so I was thinking at the time that I was simply working for
the United States government, via the United States military. It
was a defense issue, a biological defense issue, is what I was
thinking. So I was basically telling him: Why are you opening
your mouth with such a beautiful flag standing behind you? –
meaning ’Ole Glory was standing there at the end of our panel
post, our flag, and it irritated the man. And I also, well...
MMcD: It was a little bit more than that.
DB: Dale Etheridge, who was the planetarium coordinator for the
Clark County area did a stunt with me where he said: I’m going
to tell the truth about you, Dan.
HE WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF GEORGE AS GEORGE
SAID: I’ve got information on you, Dr. Crain, that you are part
of the Saucer Program. And then Dale Etheridge looked over at
me and he says... and we’ll get to Gordon here in a moment – “a
Gordon”. I’m not going to say the Gordon; I’m going to say “a
Gordon”. You’re going to hear “a Gordon” in a few moments,
actually hear him on our answering machine. [laughter, audience
comment]
124
Dale raised this bag up from under – it was a preset joke – raised
this bag from out underneath the table.
AND HE SAYS: I’ve got the goods here on you, Dr. Crain.
I SAID: Okay, fine. Show the goods, show the goods.
And he pulled out an Alf doll. You know the old Gordon
Shumway, the little Alf creature, the alien life form creature that
liked to eat cats?
I SAID: There you are, George. There’s your extraterrestrial.
Well, that was a very embarrassing thing for George because we
were laughing. We were laughing at it, at the time.
Again, I had no idea. So I was a very, you know, company man. I
was a lot more brash at that time, and I was a lot more willing to
deal with him that way.
MMcD: So he never exactly forgave Dan.
DB: Right. Now, the reason why you’re being told this is, George
indicated that he never called my home... and I’m going to get to
Gordon, but George indicated that he never called my home.
Would you be so kind as to bring up the GK [talking to slide
projectionist]. Yes, if you please, Oh one says GK and one says
GN. Go figure. Okay, the one on the right-hand side, if you
would be so kind. From 1991, Ladies and Gentlemen.
[playing of George Knapp audio message from Dan’s telephone,
muffled, inaudible] … European AK 42 I don’t know what to tell
you, … Dictaphone, Dictaphone … give me a call …
DB: He claims he never called me. [audio clip played again] He
had some inside information and he got ahold of my home phone
number [audio still playing] Okay. Thank you.
Now we are moving to EBE – Extraterrestrial Biological Entity.
Now we’re going to move forward into 2009. [Marcia in
background writes on board: J scribble EBE K.] Would you be so
kind as to do the GN – whomever that may be – the GN 2009
wave files? Here is coercion coming.
AM: Would you also have the volume up slightly? It was pretty
much down.
[plays phone recording] Dan, this is Gordon. I’m getting ready to
leave Vegas and I had lunch with your old buddy George Knapp
and I’m not going to mention any of our faux pas.
DB: It would be so good of him not to mention it.
[recording continues] All I wanted to do was to thank you for the
Shirley Bassey thing. It’s brilliant and excellent. I would like
meet this Goldstein and Dan Steele if they’re real...
DB: Forget it. What is “incrediblize”?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
[phone recording continues] ...I hear that they’re incredible and
some of it’s real. So I’m sure you know what Mr. Knapp has to
say, etcetera, etcetera, but we still want to talk business, and we
can’t do business without talking business. It seems to me to be
mandatory to be able to talk about what you can deliver and find
out what you’re offering, and... [answering machine voice cuts in,
giving date and time] Tuesday, 3...
DB: He ran out of tape time. [recording begins again; Dan speaks
to sound engineer: That’s fine. Thank you.] He ran out of tape
time. He just kept talking, and our answering machine eventually
just cut off, thank God.
But what happened was, we met with “a certain Gordon” – I’ll
just say “a certain Gordon” because we’re dealing with issues
here – and he wanted to offer me to back-engineer a Looking
Glass device, as a time issue. And: We want Argo for the carbon
dioxide sequestration; we’re not going to be playing with these
time issues.
We should have learned by now. I mean, we’re capable, if we get
hit with a stick over our head enough, of learning.
AM: He also claims he does it for energy reasons.
MMcD: He claims a lot of things. He claims it’s for energy but
what he wants is control. He wants control of energy and he
wants control of the technology that allows forward looking.
AM: Okay.
DB: Now, we had agreed to meet “a certain Gordon” at Ellis
Island Hotel-Casino in Las Vegas for dinner.
MMcD: He wanted to discuss business.
DB: And this was a follow-on to that night where we were
supposed to have dinner. We walked up. He had a lovely lady
with him, this “certain Gordon” did. We began to have a
conversation.
AND HE SAID: So you two are getting married.
Now, a certain divorce action was going on at the time and we
were doing everything we could to get that done with as quickly
as possible because of the issues involving the children that
we’ve mentioned.
AND I SAID: Yes, next month we’re going to be married.
125
AND HE LOOKED OVER AT MARCIA AND SAYS: Well,
you’ve been concubining for a long time.
AM: Concubining?
MMcD: Yeah, he called me a whore.
AM: [inaudible]
DB: I looked at her and asked her what her intentions were for
me, reference him, at that moment, whether or not she wished me
to act in certain ways toward Mr. No... toward “a certain
Gordon”. She indicated no. She told him that she had been deeply
offended, and I stood there and continued to wait to see what she
wanted to telegraph me to do.
HE APOLOGIZED AND THEN HE CAME BACK AND
MADE ANOTHER SEXUALIZED COMMENT, SAYING:
Well, you’re more the sergeant anyway, meaning a control issue
involving our sexuality.
AT THAT POINT, SHE LOOKED AT ME IN HER LADYLIKE
WAY AND SAID: Isn’t it time for us to leave?
AND I SAID: Yes, it is.
SO WHAT WE DID, SHE THEN LOOKED AT GORDON
AND SHE SAID: Have a good dinner, Gordon.
AND WE TURNED AROUND AND WALKED AWAY TO
HIS YELLING: Hey guys! Guys!
As a follow-on, the next day, that recording arrived on our home
answering machine and you can see the use of the name George
Knapp as an issue of: Well, I’m not going to talk anything about
our faux pas. But there was no faux pas. He acted like a...
MMcD: Dumb-ass.
DB: Right. [Marcia laughs] Now, there are separate teams.
MMcD: [inaudible audience comment] No, he is a dumb-ass.
DB: [laughs] There are separate teams. There are separate teams
attempting to back-engineer said devices. He, in fact, is involved
with one of those teams and he doesn’t have the full device specs.
He wants to fly a disk. He does not have an inertial integrator and
injection unit. I happen to know how that’s put together.
MMcD: Remember what I told you about his memory and how
when he looks at a schematic or he looks at a mechanical, he
memorizes when he looks at those things.
DB: Now, this might be very irritating to some people. I actually
have a publication here which is being used by his group, “a
certain Gordon’s” group.
AM: Is it available?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DB: Oh, I don’t think it’s available via the Internet. It was an
unfunded study done by – I’m not going to name the individual,
but if I happen to lay it here people will see it or whatever – by a
Ph.D. out of Florida.
The study’s name is Resolving the Psycho-social Paradoxes
Associated with Gravity Nullification, Time Travel, and
Propellantless Energy by Blank, Blank, January 24, 2006. Very
few individuals [in the study]. It was basically a question-answer
format and then this certain Ph.D. came up with certain
conclusions.
But it’s the selection... it’s the unbiased selection... when you do
a real study like this, a sociological study, you have to have an
unbiased selection of individuals.
Well, there is a very strong leaning in this paper on quotes such
as this: Most people commute to work. Duh, right. And since
larger industries would break down with the elimination of fossil
fuel, people might be more inclined to remain in their
communities and thus would be a breeding ground for fanaticism.
Speak to Brian O’Leary about the reality involved with this,
because this is, in my personal view, a line of garbage. That’s my
personal view of this because, as I said, we have a birthright. This
is associated with “a certain Gordon’s” group, “a certain Gordon”
is associated with the Aviary, which does not have your best
interests at heart, in my personal view.
MMcD: “A certain Gordon” is trying to back-engineer or create...
DB: Power, power, power.
MMcD: He’s trying to gather power and influence by creating a
flight device based upon back-engineered specs, but he doesn’t
have all the specs. He knows that somebody in this room has
memorized specs, mechanical drawings, everything that he
wants. He’s been approaching, pleading with Dan to help his
project.
DB: He wrote an email: Oh, you gave up a lot of money and a lot
of power.
MMcD: That’s what he said to us.
DB: Well I didn’t... I came close to telling him to stuff his money
and his power.
AM: [two audience members talking at once] Wouldn’t you
take… [inaudible] other measures? Remember, my question was
specifically about Bill Hamilton.
DB: [answering inaudible question buried in overtalk above]
That’s his choice.
AM: I didn’t say it.
DB: No, I’m just saying that’s his choice. If he wishes to take
other measures, if you mean maybe even toward us, because “a
certain Gordon” has a certain bravado? That’s his choice. We
have team members, too.
126
AM: Remember, my question was initially specifically about the
role of Bill Hamilton. Remember he was close with you about,
and also about his book.
DB: Bill Hamilton is a very intelligent, big-hearted, good man.
AM: He’s on Gordon’s team, is he not?
DB: No, no. Okay, let me tell you about “a certain Gordon’s”
team. “A certain Gordon’s” team doesn’t exist. Okay? “A certain
Gordon’s” team is an email loop that contains about everybody
on the face of the Earth except for maybe the people in this room.
I was on the email loop and I was never a part of “a certain
Gordon’s” team.
MMcD: He kept saying that Dan was involved in the elite part of
his management team...
DB: ...he’s calling something like Knights Templorum, or some
weird...
MMcD: I talked to the guy and I said: Take him off your email
loop. There is no contract, there is no agreement, you have given
no consideration, there has been no agreement to associate with
you. You simply asked us to listen to a proposal. We listened to
your proposal.
WE SAID: “No”. Enough! And he didn’t get it. He still doesn’t
get it.
DB: Well, most of the emails have ceased now because, at least
for a time, we put all of his emails and that phone call on the
open Internet, so everybody could hear it.
AM: Why did you do that?
MMcD: We were tired of it.
DB: Including all of this business of, you know: You turned down
all this power and this money, and even an admission of what he
called her. We just put it on the Internet because I was frankly
sick of getting harassed by this guy.
MMcD: We finally ordered him to stop harassing us.
DB: [to audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: Have you ever had experience with remote viewing?
DB: Myself, no.
AM: No, okay.
DB: No. I did in fact use some remote viewing results for Lotus
because on more than one occasion with Lotus I got to the point
where I did not know where we were going with it because it’s
such a strange phenomenon. Debra, in fact, my former wife, was
the individual.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
[short break for change of tape; audience member asks about Bill
Hamilton again]
DB: His name in fact was in an email group – we’re talking about
Bill Hamilton – was in an email loop with “a certain Gordon”.
However, aside from... well, I don’t want to get into personal
issues involving Bill. Ah... I’m just weighing something here. He
indicated to me in an email that he didn’t really expect much
from him. All right? He’s a good man; Bill Hamilton is a good
man. [to audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: Thank you. I feel like I should turn off my cloaking device.
[laughter]
DB: And you’ve not asked any previous questions whatsoever
during the forum.
AM: Yes, I was wondering on the treaty question, that who
guarantees the treaty for the, let’s say, the P54 or 52, or whatever.
As you said, there’s no, or not too many records or whatever you
said.
DB: Well, he may have had to sign... [audience member talks
over Dan]
AM: If there is a treaty there has to be some guarantee that the
treaty will be kept. So...
DB: What guarantees do you want?
AM: So what guarantee is there for them to, you know?
MMcD: What are you saying... what’s in it for them to keep the
treaty?
AM: No. For us. What guarantee that we will keep, you know,
our side of the treaty?
DB: Well, some of which were the handing over of heirlooms...
children.
Other issues involved détente between the signatories. As long as
détente was in existence, a hot war would not break out. There
have been a few issues about people firing at people, including
US authorities firing at certain craft, and you may have seen
certain STS videos of projectiles being fired up through the
atmosphere at craft.
Those were some hot war provocations. They were violating...
there was a specific one that I remember seeing where there was
actually a violation and they were not supposed to have a number
of craft in our atmosphere. They came in with an extra craft and a
shot was fired at them, a couple of shots, I believe. There was a
right-angle turn on a craft, and you can see it exiting off over the
limb of the Earth. [to audience member] Sir.
AM: I understand you are a microbiologist.
DB: Yes, Sir.
AM: Have you had any new information on cancer?
127
DB: [Marci consults with Dan] Would you hand this to the
gentleman, please? [hands paper to questioner]
MMcD: Ladies and gentlemen, I have been advised about the
requirements of the hotel and the room. We are only going to
have 5 minutes. [to Dan] You wanted to hear this tape.
DB: Of you? Okay.
[Dan speaks with sound engineer: This is going to be Zurich
2009. Okay, that would be... Go ahead and run with the
photograph of Marcia. Let’s try it. That’s it, if you want to hear
her that morning.]
It’s an audiotape of the morning of March 28, 2009, while we
were addressing the individuals that we had as guests in Las
Vegas, Nevada, the morning and the moment that the T2 event
was supposed to have occurred.
MMcD: [audiotape plays; sound quality not clear]
We began that simple unity flyer program while… [unclear] were
being produced. We did this so we would meet or exceed that
pre-set Looking Glass quota and the… [unclear]. We
accomplished the first goal by September 2006. And do you know
the expected way information spread? The last numbers…
[unclear] by the end of 2008. [Unclear]… We actually surpassed
that number by the middle of 2008 due to the other events that
drew attention to Dan and myself.
DB: CalTech.
MMcD: [audiotape continues]
The next number of… [unclear] remains the embodiment of…
[unclear] means… [unclear] that we are the human species for
which that wonderful decision, that moment of bifurcation, the
moment of collective truth, the time that the cycles cross, moment
when we must focus upon the… [unclear] solutions of all of
fragile life here every one of you. We shall survive this time the
cycles cross, the time of the predicted catastrophe of Fulcanelli
and reality has chosen to refuse the path that would lead us to
schism. We have refused to perish in the wilderness. We are
destined as children of the stars.
DB: That was cut off.... you heard that little wisp at the end. That
was the team and those assembled, the good guys, whistling and
stomping and all of that, but we‘ve tried to cut most of the team’s
voices off, for their own lives. Most of them are retired now. That
gives you an idea. [applause] Thank you, thank you. [to audience
member] Yes, Ma’am.
AM: I have two questions. The first one is the Omnicron Treaty
was scheduled for 2009. And I was just wondering if that
happened, or if it’s on schedule, or if it happened, what was the
outcome? Or if it hasn’t happened.
DB: That was... it has not happened. They were no-shows. They
didn’t show up for it.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AM: And second question, I was wondering if there are any other
treaties or communications in place, other forms of black...
[inaudible]
DB: None to my knowledge, Ma’am. Thank you. [to another
audience member] Yes, Sir.
AM: This idea that I have, I don’t know if it’s true, if we can
refer to it. Could it be that you’re a little bit sidetracked?
Because, the thing is actually, you’re talking with J-Rods? As far
as I know, visitors from the future are Grays. I’ve been working
with the Grays. They are pretty tough stuff, but the real danger
out there is the Anunnaki, the reptilians. I mean, these are the real
danger for the future of humanity. I mean, in the whole story, I
hope these don’t come back and...
DB: Well, I can speak to the issue of Anunnaki being a Sumerian
influence, or a cultural archetype, or gods of their belief system. I
can speak to the reptilian issue because while being entrained by
P45 J-Rod, they appear due to their neuropathy, their stance, their
calcain/ caucaine-like [word unclear] disease stance, to be very
lurching and extremely reptilian in appearance.
Aside from that, I cannot account for any of the other accounts
concerning alleged Grays of non-human lineage. I don’t have that
information and I cannot account for that. After 20 years of
working with the folks that were under affidavits, signed as
having worked with, it was not in our standard operating
procedures or protocols.
It was never spoken about, save – and no ill intent or umbrage to
be taken – save I heard a lot of the senior operators snickering
about the folklore that was injected into the UFOlogical
communities worldwide. And that doesn’t mean that it’s not
happening.
I don’t know everything. All I know is what I’ve experienced and
what I’ve learned during my 45 years.
AM: As part of this disinformation about Serpo... it’s part of the
story also that the Zetas are cooperating with the U.S. Army. Is
that part of disinformation or is that true?
DB: Well, I wouldn’t call them Zetas because they’ve never
called themselves that, the ones of which I’m aware, anyway. But
I’m not aware that they call themselves that.
It’s like... I met an individual and I don’t want to apply a label to
that individual that he would not want to apply to himself, like I
wouldn’t want a label applied to me. The cooperation was
128
extensive, has been extensive, with more than one branch of the
United States and what I would call foreign militaries, militaries
from other nation-states... extensive cooperation. [to another
audience member] Yes, Sir.
MMcD: One minute.
DB: One minute, Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you.
AM: I just wanted to ask you if you can confirm some images
that are around on the Internet that P52… [inaudible] look like,
because even if you draw ... [inaudible]
DB: There are no, to my understanding, actual images of an
extraterrestrial placed on the Internet. None.
AM: You mean it’s all disinformation?
DB: Ah...I don’t know what the intent...
MMcD: [talking over Dan] I have not seen every image on the
Internet.
DB: Okay. I don’t know what the intent is. For instance, if
somebody looks at a picture and they truly believe that that’s
what they saw, or they draw it, then that’s what they believe that
they saw and I’m not going to impeach that for any reason.
However, photographs, to our knowledge, videos of them? None.
MMcD: To our knowledge, none have been posted or released.
DB: And I would give my canine eyeteeth for one.
AM: Do they exist?
DB: Oh yes, the photos exist. Yes.
AM: The one they operated on. What about that one? They
showed it...
MMcD: The operation... the autopsy.
DB: Oh... the alien autopsy business?
AM: Yeah.
DB: I’ve looked at that film very closely. That appears to be a
reverse-engineered autopsy of a dead human being. [audience
laughter] Appears. In other words, my best guess is that a cadaver
was lying in a prone form on her tummy, had her back opened
up, items placed inside, including phony organs, etcetera, turned
over, and then they came in.
None of these individuals, none of them who walked in with an
alleged alien would have been dressed as you saw dressed. None
of them. It was totally hokey to me. That’s the best word I could
use. It just looked hokey and it frankly upset me a great deal
because the polydactylist female – I believe there was more than
five fingers – yeah, a normal human genetic condition,
polydactyly as well as syndactyly. But... No.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AM: Just one thing, there was a... about there being a… [unclear] Ah... we’re running out of time?
I think about 50 cm and about his dressing, the Russians did the
autopsy too? And I think they don’t dress like, you know, or, you MMcD: At the end.
same, in a fancy suit or expensive suits?
AM: [inaudible] I realize you don’t speak about things religious
DB: Bill Uhouse correctly testified to a P45 J-Rod at the Los but… [unclear] a time traveler. [laughs]
Alamos National Laboratory with whom he worked for the use of
diagnostic equipment for propulsion and avionics systems. I saw
the benefit given to S4 of what he built, and in fact in our one DB: We’re all time travelers. [laughter] Now, wasn’t that
DVD, his son, Will, and myself talk about what Bill developed diplomatic? Thank you.
with the particular J-Rod, the P45 J-Rod. That P45 J-Rod was
onboard at the same time as Chi'el'ah, the P52 that I met that
crashed in 1953.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Brian O'Leary's Presentation - Zürich Conference -
On Free Energy Joined By “Henry Deacon”
12 July 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
BILL RYAN (BR): Are we live?
TRANSLATOR: Yeah.
BR: Ladies and gentlemen, my friend, colleague, and fellow
retired mountaineer, Brian O’Leary.
BRIAN O’LEARY (BO’L): Well, thank you. Sometimes I don’t
even know what to say. I’m just overwhelmed with good feelings
about all of you. Even those of you that are sometimes angry...
[laughter and applause] …because, as you know, anger is a very
important part of the process of transformation.
Some of you may know about the work of Elisabeth Kübler-Ross
-- about the phases of grief -- because, you see, we are grieving
an old paradigm. We all know that we’re messing up the planet
and we need all the help we can get, whether it’s through our ET
visitors, or ourselves.
Elisabeth Kübler-Ross did the very important work that we must
go through, the experiences of the emotions of grief.
The first stage is almost always denial, and most of humanity is
in denial. Our beautiful, precious planet and all of nature is in
danger and it’s with that kind of motivation that I approach what
I will be sharing today.
The second phase, and it’s not necessarily a linear progression, is
anger. We heard that last night, and that’s perfectly okay. That’s
much better than murdering and torturing people. It’s a healthy
130
expression that we know that something is wrong, or at least
there’s something that is happening, something that is changing.
It’s not necessarily wrong, but we are in the midst of a big
change.
It’s with great mixed feelings that I come from America. When I
was a little boy and I was told by my parents that we won World
War Two -- that was a good feeling. I didn’t, of course, know all
the details, but I was raised with a feeling that we could do
anything.
Now, when I was eight years old, I wanted to go to the Moon. I
would read the writings of Wernher von Braun and Arthur C.
Clarke, and everybody thought I was crazy. When I was a senior
in high school, I was asked to write an essay on an important
topic. I wrote it on space satellites. The history teacher handed
the paper back to me and said: Well-researched, but not relevant.
[laughter]
The following fall, Sputnik went up and twelve short years later,
man allegedly landed on the Moon. [laughter]
I use the word allegedly, because I don’t know, personally,
whether the Moon landings were a hoax or real. How am I to tell,
if I didn’t go there? And then, this raises the nagging question of
epistemology: How do we know what we know?
Well, when I was in school I became an Eagle Scout. I climbed
the Matterhorn in 1962, and I was appointed as an astronaut to go
to Mars, in 1967. So, you could see, I was raised with the point of
view that we could do anything.
But, a few things happened on the way to the vision. One was the
war in Vietnam. That was in 1968, when I was told by the
president of the United States then, Lyndon B. Johnson, that we
would scrub the later Apollo flights and the Mars mission.
Needless to say, I was very disappointed. So, I went to Cornell
University to teach astronomy alongside Carl Sagan. And I
became a peace activist, and I have been ever since.
It was interesting last night that there was this feeling of anger
that continued when we went to the Chinese restaurant to have
roast duck, and a very angry man came up to our table and said:
You Americans! Oh, Obama is bad schlesht. [laughs] [Ed note:
We don’t know if this word is a made-up word or an actual
foreign word.]
So, you see, the tradition of anger continued, and the last thing I
want to do is support any kind of effort towards war and torture.
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So, what I thought I’d do, to center myself and all of us, I’m
going to play the piano for about five minutes. [applause] It helps
center me. And, then we’ll kind of invoke positive energy here,
so that we can go on with the talk. Thank you. [applause]
[Brian plays piano for several minutes.]
[applause]
BO’L: Thank you. It was interesting that Bill introduced me last
night as being the oldest person on the panel and I sometimes
wonder what happened to all those years! All I know is that I’m
acting as if this last trip is our last, and there’s a big job to do, if it
is.
But, I don’t think it is [laughs] because the world situation... let’s
face it -- it’s very, very difficult. It’s easy to get angry. It’s easy
to place blame on those that are suppressing things. And I, being
a peace activist – and peace activists act in different ways – I
visualize a big field of love enveloping everything, and that’s
where the negativity dissolves.
There’s a piece of the whole transformational picture, which I’ve
taken it upon myself to have a good look at. That is: What should
we do about the energy crisis?
I’m sure most of you are aware of how deep the environmental
problems of the Earth are. In 1975 I was an advisor – energy
advisor – to the U.S. Congress, and I worked with Congressman
Morris Udall, who was running for president on an environmental
platform. In the effort, I was able to learn about what many of the
options were for our energy future.
But, at that time, I was very much in the mainstream, so the
notion of free energy, or zero-point energy, or various advanced
hydrogen and water chemistries, and cold fusion, didn’t occur to
me. So I became a solar/wind advocate, and it’s still something
that could, conceivably, solve our problems.
But, all of this was part of a track that I was taking in my life,
was to envision what realistically we could do, as humans, to
create a sustainable future for humankind.
In the process, I also went through a period of intense
metaphysical exploration. That began to happen in 1979 when I
was on the physics faculty at Princeton University. I started to
have remote viewing experiences. I had a near-death experience,
and I had various healing experiences.
At that point, I began to realize that science, Western science,
was very limited. And, because the other physicists at Princeton,
my colleagues, six of whom were Nobel Laureates – there were
40 of us and we were all men – didn’t believe anything in the
paranormal was real.
So, I felt very lonely and felt compelled to leave Princeton, and it
was at that time my career became endangered. [laughs] At this
point, having now been in this outside-the-box mode for 30 years,
I’m feeling more comfortable with it.
Now, it was hard, financially, for me to get my children through
college, but I really have enjoyed these 30 years. Because, not
131
only was I able to explore many metaphysical concepts and have
spiritual growth as well, but I was able to check in with new
scientists and observe their experiments, all over the world, about
the realities of paranormal phenomena.
So, if it’s the healing, or whether it’s remote viewing, or
morphogenetic fields, or UFO/ET phenomena, the power of
positive intention, the power of meditators being able to change
the properties of water, or free energy... every time I began to
discover for myself the value, the importance, of these new
sciences.
And, the really good news about this is that the epistemology of
this new science is exactly the same as that of mainstream
science. So, you can have it all ways.
What I’d like to do today is focus on one aspect of new science,
and that’s the promise of clean, cheap, decentralized energy. So,
now I’m going to sit down and take you on a little slideshow: The
Energy Solution Revolution, which is also the title of my latest
book.
What I’m looking at now, because I think this is where the real
answers lie. Having visited the laboratories of several dozen so-
called free energy inventors, I have absolutely no doubt the
technologies are very real.
The concepts have already been proven. The Wright Brothers
have already flown their first airplane, but we haven’t put it to
practical use yet.
So, the real action in this issue is not technical... it’s social and
political.
It’s very clear that these concepts have great promise for a
sustainable future for the Earth, but the technologies have been
suppressed, especially when they get to the point of being
available to the public. And I began to learn how difficult it really
is to get to the point of implementing technologies such as this,
because it threatens vested interests.
So, very appropriately here, and I think, maybe, if we turn the
lights down a little…
I love this quote from George Orwell, the author of 1984: In a
time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary
act. And we are certainly in one of those times.
The great, late science fiction writer Isaac Asimov said: When
stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.
I’m going to talk a little bit about an example of the great threat
to our precious planet Earth.
Meredith and I live in Ecuador. We live in a beautiful spot that is
in the Andes, which reminds me very much of the Alps... without
the snow.
Just to the east of us is the Amazon Basin. It’s the world’s largest
intact rainforest, consisting of an area [the size] of most of
Western Europe, and there are many indigenous peoples who are
voluntarily isolated. It’s the rainforest with the greatest
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biodiversity on Earth and absorbs more carbon dioxide than just
about any other area of the Earth.
What you see here on this map, on the upper left side, is the
country of Ecuador. It’s this area right here. [indicating map]
So, this is Ecuador, and we live right here, and the Amazon is all
in here. This is Peru here, Brazil, Bolivia, Colombia; and the
yellow areas are all areas in which oil-drilling leases have been
issued.
There’s about a trillion Swiss Francs-worth of oil under the
ground in these areas, and the governments, generally, would like
the oil companies to come in and drill, because of their huge
indebtedness to banking institutions in the First World.
So, about one month ago, the indigenous peoples of Peru
occupied a bridge to prevent the oil companies from coming into
the rainforest. The president of Peru ordered helicopters with
machine guns to murder them.
This is an example of the kinds of things that are happening right
now. This is the kind of news that’s hard to get on CNN. You
have a little better opportunity here.
But this is an example of just the kind of thing...
You know, I often reflect about the green movement, and the
green movement is moving too slowly. So, this is a quote from a
writer from San Francisco, the San Francisco Chronicle.
This is Mark Morford and he says: Much as I love the green
movement, in the face of countless billions to be made by raping
the planet for oil, they’re merely the equivalent of trying to water
the rainforest with an eye-dropper.
In other words, the green movement has not been very effective.
If we really want a sustainable solution for the Earth, we’re going
to have to have clean energy.
We’re not going to be able to do it with carbon cap and trading –
carbon cap and trading: that’s a scheme to, basically, charge the
polluters more money to… it’s a financial solution to a non-
financial problem – or to sequester the carbon in caves. These are
very gross solutions.
Now, the president of Ecuador, who’s an interesting guy, has
proposed that, maybe, Ecuador could keep its oil in the ground in
132
its most beautiful, biodiverse, rainforest national park, if the
world community could match funds with lost revenues with
Ecuador. Unfortunately, that’s 350 million dollars, or Francs.
Three-hundred-and-fifty-million dollars per year to keep the oil
in the ground; those are the revenues that would be lost.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Millions, or billions?
BO’L: Millions. That’s still a lot. Does anybody have $350
million, maybe, to keep oil in the ground in the Amazon?
[laughter] Because…
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: [very faint; offering suggestions of
who may have the money]
BO’L: The Federal Reserve, yeah; AIG; maybe Goldman Sachs,
the Lapis Pig. Anyway, this is an innovative idea. It’s a step in
the right direction.
But, solutions to the energy crisis do exist, but are suppressed by
governments and industry through the profit motive [snorts like
the Lapis Pig], self interest, and – this is a big word –
incrementalism, meaning a little bit at a time, eye-dropper.
It’s very clear that, if you were to really look at the data on
what’s happening – regardless of how you come out on the global
warming / climate change debate – because, even if it’s a whole
reenergized, new energy solar system concept, the loading of
carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere, through the routine
burning of hydrocarbons, is acidifying the oceans and causing
enormous amounts of pollution, respiratory disease, and at least
some contribution to global warming and climate change.
But, that’s just part of it. The amount of water pollution is
enormous. The threats to sustainable agriculture are huge. So, we
need new human systems that are Earth-oriented and visionary.
As I pointed out the other night, we need to adopt the
precautionary principle which states, basically, that we can’t go
on as we’re going on. We will someday reach a tipping point that
no amount of chemtrails, or other gross macro-engineering
projects, will be able to solve.
So, let’s create a much-more sustainable, friendly world for
ourselves.
What kind of criteria would we develop for our energy sources?
They need to be clean, cheap, decentralized, and safe, as well as
publicly accountable.
This is a very, very tall order. No weapons use, no secrecy, no
greed. You see, we need a whole new social contract, and it’s
going to be up to us to create that.
Now, most of the energy we now use is unsustainable. It’s very
obvious that we’re going to wars of conquest for the oil... and the
pollution, and climate change, etcetera, etcetera.
Among the net energy non-solutions, of course, are hydrocarbons
or fossil fuels – oil, coal and natural gas. Terrible! Terrible!
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Nuclear power is expensive and unsafe. Remember Chernobyl?
And there’s no safe disposal of the high-level radioactive waste.
There’s the potential of global proliferation of the technologies
and weapons.
So, some people say: Well, let’s have a hydrogen economy.
Hydrogen burns clean. But hydrogen costs more to… it takes
more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get out of the fuel,
unless you do things to the hydrogen to manipulate its chemical
nature.
And, then, we have a form of over-unity, or free energy.
Biofuels; biofuels, such as corn -- ethanol from corn -- don’t
work. It’s another way of burning carbon. It burns a little bit
cleaner, but you need a whole, big infrastructure to develop it. So
that’s not gonna work, and it competes with agriculture!
One sports-utility vehicle’s tank-full of biofuel... one tank-full of
the sports-utility vehicle of biofuel could feed one hungry person
in one year. Yet, in North America and parts of Europe, there’s a
huge amount of corn being grown for ethanol. And that’s burning
food!
Solar and wind suffer from high cost. We’re talking somewhere
in the vicinity of $20 to $40 trillion dollars for a solar or wind
economy to replace current energy demand. It takes great
materials and land use, and is intermittent and diffuse – meaning
that it only works when the wind blows and the sun shines, and
it’s not very concentrated.
I would love for solar and wind to be the answer, but I think
we’re in a new century now and we need to look forward rather
than backward.
So, the new energy technologies include the so-called zero-point
energy devices. Yes, these are basically electromagnetic devices
that, through the use of vibrating electrons – either through the
rotary motion of a wheel with magnets or electromagnets, or
through the vibrations of electrons within a solid-state device –
can tap the enormous potential energy field of the vacuum.
This field is called many different things; sometimes it’s called
the etheric field; sometimes the zero-point field; sometimes it’s
called the orgone energy field.
There are many, many different words for it, and I believe it’s the
same field that also underlies our consciousness, that we can truly
be magicians and extract energy and information out of that field
through our conscious intention.
So, someday I see, envisioned, small solid-state devices that
could go into your circuit breaker box or under the hood of your
car.
There’s also cold fusion, which is also called low-temperature,
non-radioactive nuclear reactions. There’s a lot of confusion
about cold fusion. [laughter]
Two University of Utah chemists, Stanley Pons and Martin
Fleishmann, discovered that, when you put a palladium cathode
into a solution of heavy water, nuclear reactions would occur on
133
the cathode. No radioactivity, but a great deal of heat resulted in
the reactions and the formation of helium from hydrogen.
Since 1989, there have been many replications of these
experiments and yet, 20 years later, the mainstream media is just
beginning to discover cold fusion.
Then we also have advanced hydrogen and water technologies.
These are special forms of hydrogen and water that can actually
produce more energy than goes into the system, as measured by
traditional means.
So, if we look, for the past one hundred years – since the time of
Tesla -- there’ve been hundreds of new energy researchers, but
they’ve been suppressed by powerful interests.
Only with modest investments, can we make the necessary
breakthroughs.
Okay, okay. Now, many mainstream scientists, including myself
about 30 years ago, quoted our own bibles that basically said this
violates the laws of thermodynamics.
Well, the laws of thermodynamics are not laws. They’re only
theories that apply to a certain narrow range of conditions. This is
one case in which mainstream science is corrupted; many other
examples, too.
Another myth of free energy is that it’s so advanced [that] it must
be further off into the future. So, let’s do what’s in front of us –
windmills and solar collectors. And, I’m not saying windmills
and solar collectors are bad, by the way. I think they’ll have
many practical applications, especially at remote sites.
But, to make this assumption that it’s so advanced, would be like
to debate whether... airships, dirigibles, or balloons... which one
to choose after the Wright Brothers first flew in 1903.
The final myth is that we can trust governments and the
marketplace to support the research and development. Nothing
could be further from the truth!
So, who are the suppressors of new energy? It turns out to be just
about all of us, [laughs] and that’s why we don’t have it.
There are the scientists, and we have already heard this, that
scientism -- which itself is a religion, the religion of science, as
it’s currently exercised in the Western world -- totally ignores the
effects of consciousness, healing and other… many, many other
new sciences that are longing to be born.
The environmentalists are suppressing new energy – the people
that call themselves environmentalists. And if you don’t believe
me, try to reach Al Gore or any of the Green Party people.
Mainstream environmentalism is very cautious.
The most powerful governments and the large corporations are
also suppressing free energy, because their own vested interests
are threatened. So, they’re in denial of it, while some of the rest
of us get angry. [laughs] Sort of like the denial, and then anger…
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And, by the way, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s next phase of grieving DW: It says Official on it and has special government
is usually bargaining: Yeah, maybe this part of the government identification inside which he's showed me and I can verify.
will support the work. Maybe this corporation over here would
want to do it. But it’s like fitting square pegs in round holes.

And we have the mainstream media. Oh boy, do they ever love to

spin stories!

And now, 20 years after the cold fusion discovery, with hundreds
of replications and a worldwide scientific community of cold
fusion researchers, 60 Minutes on CBS finally ran a segment on
cold fusion. But, they act as if: Well, you know, this thing isn’t
real; but, maybe, it is after all – because they discovered it!

So, so many vested interests are threatened by the possibility of

an abundant, sustainable future with clean, breakthrough energy.
We had a number of meetings among some of the well-known
inventors and researchers of new energy, in Colorado, in 1993
and ’94. There’re some very well-known people in this picture,
including Stefan Marinov, who was the physicist on the physics
faculty, University of Graz, in Austria. He fell to his death a few
years ago... likely not to be a suicide.
Okay, so what we’re going to do in the very near future is to
break for air, because it’s my understanding, it’s rather hot in
here, isn’t it? We’re gonna have a five-minute break for air, so
we can breathe.
[applause]
[resuming after the break]
BR: Life may sometimes be full of surprises and we’re all
creating this experience that we’re having right now. So, ladies
and gentlemen, I would like to introduce to you my friend and
colleague, Henry Deacon.
HD: I no longer... I have not been employed. I have no income,
other than disability for four, five years now, since I left
everything.
What I'd like, simply, to address the cold fusion. I mentioned to
Brian that, when I was at the Naval Postgraduate School in
Monterey, California, it was open to the public. I don't think it is
now; it may not be. But, this is strongly identifying the location at
that time, the location of what I'm about to talk about.
In the basement of the Physics Department building, there were
some experiments on the Casimir Effect. [to Brian] What is the
Casimir Effect?
BO'L: It's a special capacitor that produces over-unity energy. It's
been shown, time and time again, in various physics laboratories.
And it's been demonstrated in several laboratories.
HD: To use the... it's to tap the zero-point energy.
BO'L: That’s correct.

[applause]
HENRY DEACON (HD): Hello. I’ve been waiting many years to
say something. Three years with… what, three years with
Camelot?
BR: Three years.
HD: Waiting for a moment to feel right. Just a little thing inspired
me [that] Brian said, about cold fusion. So many people I know
don’t believe… still don’t believe it’s real.
I’m still unsure about saying this, but once you say it, it’s over.
HD: And, it wasn't even in a classified room; but, unless... if you
walked by and didn't know about it, you wouldn't know what was
going on. Because, it's in the postgraduate school environment,
which caters to military and government – the civilian component
of the government of high rank – who go there for graduate,
postgraduate-level research.
So, it's just a very small thing, but it definitely makes it very solid
and real, and I've identified a location. So, as of this... once it hits
the Internet...
TRANSLATOR: Excuse me, could you say the geographic
location again?

HD: Monterey, California, near Carmel, California. I worked

Here's my American passport. [holds up passport] Notice its
with different professors on many different projects, including a
color.
space satellite that went... was launched on the Space Shuttle
mission one hundred and something, with John Glenn, his last
DAVID WILCOCK (DW): It's brown, for those of you who can't mission. A hundred and fifty, or something like that.
see it from the audience.
I don't want to go anymore, because I don't want to take any more
HD: It's not the normal color, okay? Just to show that my time, but just that is enough. This could go on forever.
background is different. It's a government passport, for official
business.
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[applause]
I do want to thank David for sharing the room. [David laughs]
Except, I wish he didn’t read my mind all the time. [laughter]
DW: Well, the fact of the matter is that my other witness, Daniel,
confirmed that Monsanto made a little box about this big, and
you could run your whole house on it. They were used in many,
many space probes, and it has been available since at least the
’60s. [to Henry] Can you confirm that?
HD: Oh, yes, absolutely. And then, Brian, talking about
palladium... well, I actually purchased some palladium a few
years ago. [laughs] It has very interesting properties of absorbing
hydrogen and being able to separate... it’s a great storage medium
for hydrogen gas, a safe storage medium. So, maybe, it’s above
value now; we don’t know where it will head. [laughs]
BO’L: Yeah. The point here, really, is that there are so many
technologies. Even in the break, some people came up to me and
said: Did you know about this person, or this person, or this
person?
It’s everywhere and, yet, it’s still been held back. So, at this
point, our job is to become more public about it, and to demand
that we are allowed to develop this in a way that’s socially
responsible.
The photographs that I’m about to show are of some of the
inventors, some of the many inventors, that are very lonely and
isolated. There’s this device here; there’s this device that’s
official.
So we’re dealing with almost an embarrassment of riches,
meaning there are so many different devices, so many
technologies -- any one, or some of which, could do the trick.
In a way, it’s really remarkable how complete the suppression
has been. And yet, to my way of thinking, it’s our next step in our
quest for a new science and a world of sustainability.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is he putting his life on the line by
coming out on this stage? [Referring to Henry Deacon.]
DW: You bet your ass he is. [applause]
HD: Someone last night told me I had gray hair. [laughs] So, yes,
a friend.
BO’L: But it isn’t white yet. [laughter]
HD: It may turn that way pretty quickly now. [laughs] I would
like to mention something else that’s offline for just a minute, if
it’s okay. It had to do with something last night, but it’s positive.
Dr. John Mack of Harvard University who... how many people
here have heard of him? Okay.
DW: About half.
HD: Someone explain who he was. I can’t exactly do that.
135
BO’L: I could. He was a good friend of mine, a close colleague
of mine. He was a professor of psychiatry at Harvard University,
who did extraterrestrial abduction research. He was,
unfortunately, killed in an automobile accident – this one may
have really been an accident – in London about three or four
years ago.
His abduction research is very important, because he discovered
that the most common denominator of the messages that the ETs
gave to the abductees, was to express how perilous our
environmental situation is on the Earth. And this is directly out of
his latest book, Passport to the Cosmos.
And I share that concern. You can see that Meredith and I are
both just tremendously concerned about the future of our Earth.
And, as the result of this research of John Mack’s, he came to the
same conclusion.
HD: He had a... before I go on with that. I realize more and more
-- especially since I, for some reason, started working with
David, even at a distance -- once you get locked in and go with
the flow of the Universe, for lack of a better word, something
very magical happens. Everything you are [gets] synchronized in;
everything happens in amazing ways; and each of us can do, no
matter who you are, can change the whole future of the whole
world – each of you. [applause]
Yes, you have to be patient, sometimes, and wait and not push
things.
Back to Dr. John Mack: When I went back to school, and went
back to graduate school for further education; I was at Purdue
University, and I learned something new, a new technique. It was
called Yang Chen Qi Gong.
The first day I went, it was in the Student Union, and they had an
advertisement on the wall; it says the meeting is at this night, at
this time. And I would look in the door -- many doors where the
meetings were, for different clubs -- and I looked in the door and
it was dark, like nobody there.
So, I tried next week... still dark. So, I just opened the door, and
there’re some people; they’re all just sitting on the floor,
complete silence in the dark, and they’re all Chinese. I sat down,
and I understood what was going on after about a week or so,
[laughs] and I started practicing this method.
And, anyway, I won’t go into Yang Chen Qi Gong anymore at the
moment. But, later, I learned that Dr. Mack went to China, not
too long before he died, to investigate some phenomena with his
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
abductees. And, in general, many of his abductees had been
practicing this. It’s a meditation, a form of meditation.
And two of the people that were advanced there were well known
and documented in the university, and now they’re all professors
in different places in the world. Well, especially, one named Dr.
Fonzu; [Ed note: Unsure about the spelling.] he was in a state of
non-eating for many months. He didn’t have to eat anything; it’s
called bigu.
What I’m getting at with John Mack is that, I think, I said his
abductees -- many of them had been practicing Qi Gong; but, I
believe it also applies to other forms of meditation, and it appears
that it opens yourself up to contact – and they can be good or bad
contact. But, I just want to make you aware of that, if you
practice.
So, when you’re practicing, you know, it’s almost like you’re
opening yourself up to that. It’s like a beacon.
Okay. Thank you. [applause]
BO’L: Thank you. Well, we have just had a Deacon Beacon,
[laughter] shedding light on a very important topic.
And again, the point is that the number of devices and inventors
are scattered all over the world. About 10 years ago, I made a
point of traveling around the world and this [unsure of this word
“this”] visiting some of them. So, now I’m about to show some
photographs of these fellows, if that’s appropriate.
BR: Just before you start that, Brian, I just want to publicly thank
Henry for his contribution here. It’s an act of great courage and
great service. And, I want to thank you for your friendship, your
support, and your huge contribution to everything that we are
trying to do here, all of us together in this room.
HD: This is why I came here.
BR: And, on behalf of Project Camelot, I would love to invite
you to the Camelot Conference in Los Angeles in September, if
you’d be willing to take the stage and share more of your
personal perspectives on the New World that we have waiting for
us. We’re not putting you under pressure for any kind of an
answer, but is this something you would consider?
HD: Can I come in through the Mexican-California border?
[laughter]
BR: We’ll smuggle you in, don’t worry.
BO’L: You have an official passport. [laughter]
BR: Okay... [applause]
HD: You remember 2001: A Space Odyssey? [At] the end of the
movie, there was a star-child. This may have been mentioned
already, a metaphor: This world is not ending at all. It’s just
going through birth pangs, birth pains. A new child, you know?
That’s all. [applause]
136
DW: Could you briefly say something about what the other
people [Ed. note: referring to ETs] that you’ve met are like to be
around?
HD: They make you feel very, very happy and good -- almost all
of them. When he says people... just we’re all people in this
Galaxy -- maybe a little bit different-looking; but, it’s like
different flowers, that’s all.
So, usually, it’s a very elating, uplifting feeling. You may laugh.
The first time -- you’ll be laughing, that’s all.
So, if you see something -- like in the Report from Iron Mountain
-- many of the possible things to... alternatives to war, creating
fictitious enemies; one of the things that was listed in there in the
early ’60s was a threat from outer space.
You can look at that report. It is not fictitious at all. President
John Kennedy asked that the Rand Corporation think-tank about
the desirability of ending wars and bringing about peace – what
the feasibility and possibility would be.
So the conventional-thinking geniuses came up with alternatives;
that’s all, alternatives to war.
They thought that, if they took all the money that went into war
and into the national reconnaissance organizations, that they
would be able to feed and house everyone on the planet. And
then what would the people do?
So, we have to have something; so, we create enemies. Just like
George Orwell... we create threats. We create environmental
menace. That was mentioned: environmental menace.
This was written... this report was put out in the ’60s. You can
see -- it’s all happening.
BO’L: It’s very sobering, isn’t it? The conventional thinkers and
the scenarios they come up with, which always seem to involve
control. We have to think differently.
HD: Think different. ...Apple computer. [laughter]
DW: I would like to say, while we’re on stage, that there was one
time when I was on the phone with Henry.
HD: No. Mr. Neumann, the real name.
DW: Mr. Neumann, the real name, and he was called by one of
these clandestine agencies, and he put it on speaker phone on his
cell phone. I witnessed the entire conversation take place between
them. For someone to try to tell me that he set this up is pathetic.
It was completely random, after we’d been talking for three
hours.
HD: That’s how you run away, and it’s like the movie, The
Prisoner. You run away, and then they find you, and they offer
you work, and then you run away again, and they offer you
another job.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DW: I would say that Henry, or Art, as his real name is, is the
most-knowledgeable witness ever to come forward in human
history about these projects. I again want to personally thank you
for volunteering to do this for all of us. I do consider you a hero
for doing this.
HD: It’s just what I came here for. [applause]
[Ed note: ‘Henry Deacon’ is Art Neumann for the record, so all
references to ‘Henry Deacon’ (HD) will include Art Neumann,
hence (HD/AN) from this point on.]
DW: Brian, what world would we have if these technologies get
freed up? What can we visualize for the future?
BO’L: It would be a world of great abundance, if it’s properly
managed. It’s a big IF. And so, it’s up to us to create social
systems to facilitate the ethical use of these technologies.
They are truly breakthrough. For example, you could have pure
water simply by desalinating the ocean water.
But there are many, many other things that can happen, too. You
can have abundant food. Because, you see, energy no longer is a
block.
The kind of new world that one visualizes here very quickly
becomes a very, very good world. And, part of the good news
about this is that we can plan it. We can plan this program, the
whole thing, including making the transition as painless as
possible.
The United States Department of Energy recently issued a
request for proposals about new energy technologies. I responded
to the proposal, and I called it Impacts of a Breakthrough Energy
Economy.
In the proposal, I proposed a novel idea, which is to develop –
even if it’s hypothetical – a question: What are public attitudes
toward a world of breakthrough energy? Let’s bring this
discussion out to the public. Let’s be open about this. So, that
was part of the proposal.
The other was to get together a number of people, like as an
advisory group without vested interests, to advise on scenarios of
a clean breakthrough energy future. So far, that hasn’t been done.
It’s been kept secret, and now we have to be willing to be bold
enough to think about such a future.
Guess how much money I asked for, for the study. One dollar.
[laughter]The reason for that, of course, is that energy, like
everything else, should be our birthright. At the very least, a
world of breakthrough energy will buy us some time, so that we
can truly plan a sustainable future for the Earth.
DW: I’d be interested in seeing more of these slides. Do you have
other technologies?
BO’L: Yes. Let’s look at that.
DW: But, that was great; that was great. [applause]
137
BO’L: Well, let’s do it. Okay.
DW: Because this is provable stuff. You’re saying these guys
have hardware and it already works, right?
BO’L: Oh yeah! This is a trip I took about 10 years ago, all
around the world. For example, Paramahamsa Tewari has a
magnetic motor which the government of India has given him,
actually, money and laboratory space to develop this.
He starts it up as a generator, then he unplugs it and it’s a free-
running motor – or a free-running generator. It’s the other way
round. He starts it as a motor and, then, it becomes a free-running
generator.
Suji Inumata had another such device in Japan.
Some of you may have heard of Yull Brown. He developed
Brown’s gas, which is a very special form of water, which people
are now using to burn cleaner fuels, as additives, and also to
actually run cars on water.
Next one: This is a welding device that Yull Brown developed
from Brown’s gas, which is really extraordinary.
Sparky Sweet – I talked about that in the workshop this morning.
He’s a retired engineer from General Electric, and he has in his
hand a specially-conditioned magnet which lit up a bank of light
bulbs.
Next slide, please: John Hutchison, Canadian inventor, who is
sort of like a reincarnated Nikola Tesla, and is able to create anti-
gravity. This was an aluminium – that’s how Canadians call
aluminum – bar, and he thrashed it with huge amounts of energy
he was able to generate.
Next slide: Tom Bearden – with a little artistic license here –
Tom is still with us on the Earth, and he’s a brilliant theoretician
of free energy.
How many of you have heard of Tom Bearden? Yeah, about half
of you, a little less; he wrote a book called Energy from the
Vacuum. It’s very technical, but he, basically – his bottom-line
message is that the electrical engineers have Maxwell’s equations
all wrong. They neglect the most important term in Maxwell’s
equation, which is the so-called scalar term, which contains,
basically, the information you need to extract energy from the
zero-point energy field.
These things are very hard to explain, by the way, and you
probably want to see a device right on the table now in front of
you. For that, I apologize. What we really need to have is a
concerted effort among engineers and inventors to bring this to
the next level of proof.
Many people think you can just go down to Wal-Mart and buy
your own free energy gizmo, but we’re not there yet. It takes time
and money and effort to get to the point where we’ll have the
gizmo on the table.
So, at this point, the important thing is to visualize that it’s
possible to have this. You don’t even have to believe it; [laughter]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
just visualize the possibility, and, then, ask the question: Why
aren’t we doing it?
Should we not leave no stone unturned in our quest for clean
energy? It’s a very logical question, if we want a sustainable
future for planet Earth.
Next slide: This is a very sad story. Eugene Mallove was editor
of Infinite Energy magazine. He was the chief science writer for
MIT, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and he was assigned
the job of debunking or ridiculing the original discovery of cold
fusion.
Some nuclear physicists at MIT were not... or claimed not to be
able to replicate the experiment. But these were nuclear
physicists who had a very strong vested interest in their own hot
fusion Tokomak reactors, a concept that has, so far, cost the U.S.
government and taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.
HD/AN: It keeps them employed, though. [laughter]
BO’L: But they knew nothing about electrochemistry, which is
what this concept is all about.
So Eugene Mallove discovered that the nuclear physicists
actually committed fraud and fudged the data, so as to make it
look like they did not replicate it, which led the late Sir Arthur C.
Clarke to say: This could well be the greatest scandal in scientific
history. This was in 1989, 1990.
And now, for 20 years, hundreds of people have replicated and
done successful cold fusion experiments.
And then, we’ll interject something here that David just informed
me about. Because you would think that: Okay it works --
where’s the tabletop device? Let’s make one. Let’ just do it! It
should be easy.
Well, it hasn’t been quite as easy as you might expect, for at least
two reasons. The one reason that I am familiar with is that many
of these free energy devices respond to the consciousness of the
experimenter. This is reminiscent of particle physics experiments,
in which the observer changes the properties of the observed.
So, many rigorous scientists have not touched cold fusion
because they believe that because it doesn’t work all the time, it
doesn’t work any of the time. And, David, you have another
explanation about why it may work sometimes and not work
sometimes.
138
DW: I was talking yesterday about how all 4,000 pyramids and
ancient sites have been built on this geometric grid around the
Earth. These geometric lines represent where the most torsion-
field energy comes from. When you have a cold fusion device on
or near one of these lines, it will work very well.
The 60 Minutes documentary he spoke of revealed that, in some
places, it doesn’t work at all. This is almost certainly because
those areas are not on the grid.
I would also like to say something about Dr. Eugene Mallove, if
you don’t mind.
BO’L: Go ahead.
DW: He had a working tabletop device that always worked. The
only person he told about this was my colleague, Richard
Hoagland. They were about to go to Washington, D.C. and show
it to Senators. They were going to announce this on the air with
me on a Saturday night. Friday afternoon, [speaking emotionally]
Dr. Eugene Mallove was bludgeoned to death in his back yard.
[sighs] The killing has to stop. [applause]
BO’L: I know. It really upset me a great deal when it happened,
because at the time, I had founded the New Energy Movement,
and he was going to be the keynote speaker. And I became the
keynote speaker and moved to Ecuador. [David laughs]
Not out of fear, actually, because Meredith and I enjoy our life
there very, very much. So, that wasn’t the only reason, but I was
very upset for quite a while when that happened.
And another tragic example is Stefan Marinov. Actually, he’s in
that picture too. He’s the man on the right and up a little bit.
DW: In the gray sweater.
BO’L: Okay, the one in the middle. That’s Stefan Marinov. I
knew him well. He was a physics professor at the University of
Graz in Austria. He was found jumping – but I think the right
story is falling – from the 10th story of the library building at the
University of Graz about four years ago.
He was a very jolly person. And one eyewitness saw him falling
backwards, falling backwards, as if he were pushed. He left no
suicide note, and he was one of the most positive, highly-spirited
persons I’ve ever met. He was sort of like the head of the
European free energy movement. This happened about four years
ago.
HD/AN: Don’t be afraid of dying. It’s just changing form.
[applause]
BO’L: That’s why the concept of karma is so important.
HD/AN: It all depends on what you want to do here, if you can,
first.
BO’L: By the way, the other scientist on the left here, Randall
Mills, he founded BlackLight Power, which is a very special
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
form of hydrogen in which he found that energy states of
hydrogen can be lower than the traditional ground state.
HD/AN: How low can you get?
BO’L: Quite low and you can get about 100 times more energy
out of a hydrogen plasma tube, than you could get with ordinary
hydrogen. And he’s discovered... well, he’s made many
discoveries in this and has even developed a theory around it
called Classical Quantum Mechanics.
I think that, having been in the world of physics myself -- it’s fair
to say that physics is in for a big change. And unfortunately, like
the particle collider here in Switzerland, and many other state-of-
the-art kinds of directions, it’s not as fertile direction as free
energy and the new science of consciousness.
And, isn’t it interesting that quantum theory itself predicts and
shows that consciousness does exist? Because the act of
observation creates the physical reality you observe! Most
physicists ignore that fact and go about their materialistic ways.
HD/AN: Well, at Livermore many, many, many decades ago, I
found it quite novel that, after some research of the top scientists
under Edward Teller, they were passing around a book to each
other called The Tao of Physics.
[inaudible comment from audience]
HD/AN: The Way – it was a metaphysical book, you know,
because they realized what was going on a long time ago at the
Q-level clearance, Above Top Secret.
BO’L: Edward Teller, by the way, is the father of the hydrogen
bomb; basically originated the Star Wars program for Ronald
Reagan, and loved to create chemtrails and other things in space
to screen out sunlight to offset global warning – and does it with
great delight, like Dr. Strangelove.
HD/AN: Edward, would you please explain where you’re coming
from? I still don’t understand you.
BO’L: And, by the way, he’s passed over, but he was certainly
quite a stereotype of a boss.
HD/AN: His two babies were Los Alamos National Labs – that
was his big baby – and then Livermore National Labs, which was
Livermore Labs, his second baby.
DW: But you wouldn’t know anything about those?
HD/AN: No. And then, [it was] interesting how they kept
changing the name, and that [was] very expensive, changing the
name of Livermore Labs. It was Lawrence Livermore Labs; then
they changed it to Lawrence Livermore National Labs – and, at
the same time, it was the United States Atomic Energy
Commission – and, then, it was the U.S. Energy Research
Department – ERDA.
BO’L: Oh yes, Energy Research and Development
Administration.
139
HD/AN: And, then, it was Energy Research and Development
Agency, so they had to change all the paperwork again. Then
they changed it to the Department of Energy. It was all the same
thing. I don’t understand that.
BO’L: By the way, the U.S. Energy Department spends
approximately... I think it’s $30 billion dollars a year, maybe it’s
more now, and it’s almost all on fossil fuel and nuclear energy
research and nuclear weapons.
HD/AN: In 1976 or so, we had a meeting. I had to go a big
meeting, a high-level conference, classified conference, in a big
auditorium and they put up a graph up here, a projection of oil
reserves. And, then, they said in 30 years, we’ll be running out of
oil, and that was Top Secret. I don’t understand what’s going on.
It’s confusing. Why was that Top Secret? And is it true, we’re
running out of oil?
BO’L: Yeah. The known oil reserves on the Earth will give us
another 30 to 100 years, depending on how fast we gobble it up.
There’s a whole movement called the Peak Oil Movement, who
believes that we’re now at the top, at peak production of oil, and
then we are going to descend the slippery slope of scarcity.
HD/AN: That’s what we were told at the meeting.
BO’L: And, that’s what you were told at the meeting. It’s
obvious. It’s out there in the public domain. I think some of the
scarcity is created artificially. But, regardless of how you think of
it, the hydrocarbon age that we’re now in is a dinosaur. Literally.
HD/AN: Oh, one simple thing. I keep interrupting.
BO’L: Go ahead.
HD/AN: I wanted to mention that I was very surprised... because,
you know, it’s over for me now. Bye-bye. No... [laughs]
Project Shiva – Shiva Nova – a laser fusion project; you can look
it up on the Internet. It’s on BBC lately: Oh, laser fusion.
Something new. That’s what they finished in the ’70s. Most
American scientists were not even allowed access to that project.
When I went in to the project, I was very surprised at the
scientists I saw there, where they were from. Red China! Our
technology, that technology, American science technology at the
highest levels, was being given to the top Chinese people, in Red
China -- what does that mean?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BO’L: Okay. Maybe we should move along here, and I’ll show a
few more here, because we have been told we’re going to have a
break at 4:30, which is 15 minutes from now. So, like David
yesterday, I’m going to fast-forward! [David laughs]
What I want to point out is that we have had a few meetings
among free energy researchers. This is quite a distinguished
group, with a little artistic license as well.
I’ll just mention a few names: Tom Bearden, Hal Puthoff, Peter
Graneau from MIT. [indicates a man in photograph] That’s Peter
Graneau, me, Meredith. And Jim Carrey! What is Jim Carrey
doing in a group of free energy eggheads? Well, he was filming
Dumb and Dumber, while we were trying to get smart and
smarter! [laughter, applause]
There’re some other distinguished… There’re Stefan Marinov;
Paramahamsa Tewari from India; Suji Inumata; and many, many
other recognizable people.
Unfortunately, the software billionaire that funded this effort,
decided not to fund any of our work, because we were not
dipping into the river of optimized profits. [snorts like a pig]
Next slide: We’ll go through these rather quickly. Let’s just go
on. Two more. A good Tom Bearden quote, but not enough time.
Adam Trombly. Adam is a close colleague of mine and
somebody who came up with a free energy device way back,
about 30 years ago. He was told by the U.S. Department of
Defense to never work on this again, and had his device
confiscated. So, he started Project Earth, following the tradition
of Buckminster Fuller.
I think it’s a wonderful quote and I’ll say it: There is a limitless
and practically-useful energy anywhere you stand or sit. We can
feel it and we can be it. We can tap into this with real
technologies. We can light our homes and drive our quiet clean
vehicles as the wounds of our tortured Earth are healed forever.
Let’s take our planet back. Let’s start now! [applause]
Okay, now we have to really move fast because my pre-
programmed talk is being truncated.
Here’s Buckminster Fuller. Shortly before his death, Buckminster
Fuller came into knowledge that free energy existed. And he was
such a positive thinker. He was overjoyed. He said: I’m glad I
have lived long enough to see this. It is simply wonderful! I hope
and pray you will live long enough to see the principle upon
which this artifact is based become the new energy source for all
passengers on Spaceship Earth.
Next slide: At Montesueños, our retreat, we had what’s called the
Phoenix Gathering about a year ago. This was a group of
visionaries that flew in from all over the world, and we were
given one question to ask ourselves: How can we create a
sustainable future for the Earth?
What I discovered during the course of this one-week intensive
workshop was that there were different cultures represented, who
weren’t talking with one another. And so, for example, the issue
of free energy was not considered important, because the people
140
came in with pre-conceived ideas about what kind of future we
should have.
It brings back the famous Bertrand Russell quote: The resistance
to a new idea increases as the square of its importance. So, we’re
talking about supplanting a multi-trillion dollar hydrocarbon /
nuclear energy economy. Next slide: This is just photographs of
the conference. And, so we had these different cultures. We had
the pragmatists lead by a progressive lawyer from New York;
and, because I couldn’t give him a ten-minute explanation for
free energy, he denied it.
Then, the deep ecologists – these are the people that really think
the Earth is in deep trouble. But, they also, maybe, reflect a lot of
the Green Movement, in that they’re not looking at visionary
solutions, but going back to the farm.
Then there are the truth-seekers, which is represented by a lot of
people in this room, that really want to know what’s going on
behind the scenes.
And, then, the spiritualists—these are people that see the Unity in
everything.
But, the people weren’t talking with one another, and I’m going
to suggest that we need some of all of these features to do the
necessary synthesis.
Next slide: Arthur C. Clarke, the late Arthur C. Clarke: Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Next one: Martin Luther King: To ignore evil is to become an
accomplice to it. And that doesn’t mean that we need to go and
blame evil, and fight them, but we should be willing to
understand that malevolence does exist, and we need to do
something about it.
Next slide: So, this is the conclusion of this talk in my new book:
Embracing the Possibility of Breakthrough Energy, or what I call
an “energy solution revolution,” should be our Mandate, not an
idle speculation to be ignored, ridiculed, or feared.
Next slide: Well, I’m just going to show about four slides. I was
going to do a whole piano/slide gig, but I’m not going to do that
now...
VOICE: Boo... [laughter]
BO’L: ...because I want to give Bill his allotted time.
But these are photographs... Basically Meredith and I, over the
past five years, have created a beautiful retreat in the Andes of
Ecuador. For example, last January, Bill, and Kerry, and George
Green came, and we had two conferences, actually. One was
called “Crisis and Opportunity.”
The other was called The Camelot Conference, appropriately
called, because I’m sure that, in coming up with the name Project
Camelot, it goes back to the days when there was visionary
thinking, where there was the Good King, or the energy of the
Good King, that wanted to help humanity. Even the years of John
F. Kennedy were called “The Camelot Years”.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Our goal in creating Montesueños, which is really Spanish for Let all negativity dissolve within this light, because, from the
“mountain dreams”, was to hold these kinds of events, to create a darkness dawns a new light. And one more deep breath in. Then
new world, if we can take it. exhale, and then gradually come back into the room.

And so, in the next three or four slides, we’ll just show you some
architectural shots. It’s one of the most beautiful spots I’ve ever
seen on the planet. So, we have two main buildings, eight
bedrooms, plenty of conference space, and we warmly invite you
to come to one of our conferences or to just stay and relax with
us.
We give thanks for this opportunity to come together at the
Volkshaus, and with gratitude toward Bill, and Ruth, and the
Ground Crew, the other speakers, the translators, that we can
create a truly new world.
Thank you.

And this is the new book, The Energy Solution Revolution, which [applause]
this talk was all about.
RUTH HUBER (RH), translator, speaking German and then
The next slide is the last slide. Well, that’s the next-to-last slide, I English: Bill made the suggestion to finish off the conference and
think. [laughter] That’s one of the views from Montesueños. And round it up right now.
I know, Bill, you had a good time. [laughter]

I have to explain this for one minute [referring to last slide], if I

may have one more minute. You heard a reference last night to
the Lapis Pig. Here he is, the original.

Now, he has a swelled head. He believes that the bankers have it

right, and that the military-industrial complex is very good. So,
even though he has been designated guardian of our Treasury, he
has this vision of having a statue created of himself, 100 meters
high, made of pure lapis lazuli.

He’s just collected $287-billion dollars on credit default swaps

with AIG, and now wants to drill the Amazon for one trillion
dollars worth of oil and become the world’s first trillionaire.
This is an example of reducing what’s going on to absurdity. We
have to have fun with this and at the same time experience the
emotions of change.
BR: I didn’t really have any rousing speech finished for the last
section of today; and, even if I did, I couldn’t possibly cap the
presentation and the finale that Brian, aided by Henry and David,
has just offered you here. What I do want to do... I want to ask if
Dan and Marci are in the room. Are they here?

The next slide, and I believe the last slide, is our information. The
last slide gives the information about how to reach us.
What I’d like to do is conclude with a one-minute meditation.
David suggested this last night. I think it’s a wonderful idea.
RH: No.
BR: They’re not around. I don’t blame them at all, actually. I
understood they held a wonderful workshop this morning, and
they deserve a little bit of time and space, and that’s wonderful.

And so, just kind of relax, loosen your clothes, your body and so
forth. And just close your eyes and breathe a deep breath in. Feel
the love and light that’s present in this room right now, then let
go of any negativity in your out-breath, any tension, over-active
mind, stress. Just let it all go with each breath, breathing again
deeply from your stomach. Ahhhh... then exhale.
And, then, imagine now a bright light coming through the top of
your head with each breath in, and allow that light to surround
your head and your whole body. And let that light spread out to
the universe for the highest good of everybody. Let it wrap over
the planet Earth, and let us become empowered to transform
ourselves to the light we really are and the beauty of Nature all
around us.
Just stay with that for about a few seconds. As you breathe in,
with each breath, allowing the light to spread more and more... to
your neighbors, to this room, to the city of Zurich, Switzerland,
this beautiful country; and let the light spread around the world to
everybody.
What I do want to do is just stress again that here we’ve seen in
front of us the opportunity that we have of creating the
experience that we want.
I want to thank everyone who made this possible. I want to thank
Ruth, who’s shared this vision with me, and held it through a lot
of interesting times for many months, and, without whom, this
would not have happened.
[applause]
I want to thank the Swiss Ground Crew, because it wouldn’t have
happened without them either. [applause] Stand up, please. Stand
up. Tina, stand up.
RH [in German, then English]: They did a tremendous amount of
work, all together.

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
[applause while Ground Crew, all in red t-shirts, assembles in
front of stage]
BR: We’re going to have to do this again sometime; otherwise, I
don’t know what people are going to do with these t-shirts.
[laughter]
And this isn’t just the end of a conference. I want you to consider
this as being the start of something else. I want you guys to
organize conferences of your own. I want you guys to speak at
conferences of your own. I want you guys to encourage others to
hold conferences of their own.
Kerry Cassidy and I are going to be in Barcelona in two weeks’
time. We invite you all to come to Barcelona. Art, do you want to
come to Barcelona?
RH: Yeah. [applause]
HD/AN: I’ll be there, too. I’m trying to find my Excalibur Sword.
[laughter]
BR: There’s a bunch of people holding a conference in
Amsterdam on the 1st of August. So, find anyone with a badge
with a Dutch flag on it and ask them what’s going on and they’ll
tell you.
I’ve been invited to Poland on the 5th and 6th of September. I’m
delighted to be going there. I’ll go anywhere you like, if you
make the coffee good enough. [laughter] And, so probably would
Henry, except that he likes Lahsee. [unsure of word]
And I have a very strong feeling that all kinds of amazing things
are going to happen at the Camelot conference in Los Angeles on
the 19th and 20th of September. David Wilcock will be there.
Henry will be there, I hope.
HD//AN: Immigration problems.
BR: Immigration problems. Oh, right!
Doctor Pete Peterson has told us that he will be there. And, based
on our experience this afternoon, who knows who else will be
there?
It’s possible that the next time the Swiss Ground Crew will be
wearing their red shirts is for another event here in Zurich, where
David Icke is coming on the 14th of November.
And so, there’s a lot going on, and there has been talk just today
of an event held by the German Ground Crew, and this is being
created as I speak.
Meanwhile, Brian is holding his own event in August... and I
cannot remember the dates, Brian.
BO’L: 22nd and 23rd. And I think George Green will be there.
We hope you will be there, but we realize you’re traveling a lot,
so we can create another Camelot conference at Montesueños and
we hope you can come.
142
BR: Art, are there any immigration problems going to Ecuador?
HD/AN: Not that I know of.
BR: I think you’d really like Vilcabamba.
HD/AN: I could live 156 years, like I was supposed to. [laughs]
BO’L: Right. It’s the Valley of Longevity and very healthy. Fresh
organic food and perfect climate. [applause]
BR: It’s the most wonderful food I’ve ever tasted in all of my
life.
I’ve been asked to mention the Free Energy Congress. Brian, you
know exactly about as much of this as I do.
BO’L: This is actually new to me, but it’s in Switzerland.
[translator gives details in German]
BR: Everything that’s happened this weekend is going to be on
the Internet in some form and, for all I know, some of it may
already be; and so, all of this is recorded for a lot more people to
be inspired by than the 300-plus who are here in this room.
I jumped the gun there, actually, because David, I wanted to ask
you, is there anything that you are doing that you would like to
mention here and invite people to take part in?
DW: I will be speaking at The Secrets Conference in Phoenix,
Arizona, [November 21-24, 2009] and I’ll be sharing the stage at
some point with Disclosure pioneer, Dr. Steven Greer, which I’m
very happy about.
I’m also doing an event in Toronto in September, and that’s the
weekend of September 11th. I’ll be speaking the entire weekend
and singing some of my new music, so you get about 16 hours of
the kind of lecture content you saw yesterday.
In November, I have a five-day resort getaway vacation in
Hawaii that will be happening; and, next summer, we’re going to
have a crop circle tour in England for a week.
In general I just want to thank every one of you for being here. I
only see reflections of myself and I’m very pleased with it. I do
believe there’s only one of us here, so please don’t tear me to
pieces as I’m trying to leave the room. [laughter]
But, seriously, I hope that what we can all take from this
experience is the gratitude for knowing the truth and the
challenge to use it.
Thank you Bill, for bringing us out here. And Ruth. [applause]
BR: I want to thank the people who’ve been manning the
cameras. It’s been quite hard work and you’ve done an incredibly
important job back there. Just give a round of applause to the
camera people, without whom this would not be made available
to the rest of the world. [applause]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
I’ve spent a lot of time on a lot of different planets in the last few Kristina Hollenvager. [sp?] Kristina, are you in the room?
million years, and none of them have had as many countries and [applause] Tell her to stand up.
languages as this one. [laughter] So, I want to thank the
translators for doing an invaluable job here this weekend. So, it takes a lot of people and lot of work, a lot of intention, and
[applause] a combined vision to hold a conference like this. It’s not easy, but
it’s worth it. So, don’t do the things in life, which are easy -- do
Ruth Huber...? the things in life, which are worth it.

RH: OK. Ja. Ruth Huber is my name. Ja. [laughs]
BR: You German-speaking people who are interested in anything
to do with spiritual growth, you’ve got to read her book.
[applause]
I want to thank you all for being here. We’re going to be around
for a little bit, I think, to talk to people. This is the intention that
we have, is to make ourselves available to talk to people. But,
more importantly, make sure that you talk with each other. This
is a networking event.

Rob Fleischer from Exopolitics Germany, [applause] who is We do hope to see you here again in Zurich sometime. Thank
going to be speaking in Barcelona at the Exopolitics Summit. you.

Thomas Kirschner from NEXUS Magazine, who has given us a [applause]

huge amount of support. [applause]
[ends with Brian O’Leary playing piano and the murmur of
voices, people talking to each other in the background]
**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

143
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dan Burisch at the Zurich Conference
His Statement, 16 July 2009
"Hello, great people. Marcia and I were so blessed to have met
such wonderful people in Zurich, and Bill Ryan and the Ground
Crew treated us wonderfully. We thank them all! We will have
more to say about this in the near future, after I have rested. On
an "off the subject matter," I was also told that another major
researcher may be available to speak with us, about Lotus, in
Spring 2010, and we will keep everyone informed of the possible
venue. It will be by invitation only - remember the GOLDEN
EAGLES tickets?
I have directed this post to be made public. We are aware of what
is going on, and David can confirm I had hard biological material
with me to describe the H1N1/H5N1 issue and lack of
biomarkers present which I would expect for a biodefense
weapon. I also told him, somewhat directly, that my experience
has indicated that should either of these two viruses have been a
biodefense weapon, those whom I have known would have been
fired for incompetence, due to lack of mortality rate.
I also had some Baxter information with me, but NEVER
compete for attention via sound level. Why should I? If they
prefer hearing the sounds of their own voices, I am most happy
leaving them to them. Perhaps more empirical evidence of claims
and less shouting through the same fear the same others would
have so eloquently pleaded they disrobed from, in L.A.? I hope
so. I do not enjoin in the driving of fears, whether about Planet X,
vaccines, or any other matter, but rather seek to find out what
truths are seated behind the lies- both from the governments and
from individuals from within the conspiracy genre.
Look at what Marcia presented about Global Warming, Food,
and the Illuminati? While she possesses the ability, do you think
she created the material which she presented, without my input?
Who wrote "Food for Thought" on the SAME SUBJECT on the
now closed Eagles Forum? It was on that forum, in that
publication, where I first accused the Illuminati of trying to kill
the people of the 3rd and 4th worlds by starvation. Why does
anyone think we started Angel Eagles and have called the Illumes
"filth"? Yes, the actions are 'just because it's the right thing to do'
- but also as a symbol to you all that one of your conspiracies is
TRUE. When we find out such a thing, we scream it from the
roof tops, then we do more than yell or talk - we DO
144
SOMETHING ABOUT IT. We are not new to difficult subjects
and can quickly see through someone 'talking the talk, but not
walking the walk.'
I will not argue the validity of basic germ theory, an underlying
motive from only a few (amongst the many good people) we
encountered, in any effort to counter their "belief system." Germ
theory is our best explanation given the empirical evidence.
Period. One can argue "scalar waves" or transient reality
variations, all they want, but VIRUSES EXIST. Period.
This was something, quite frankly, I thought had been long ago
put to rest, right along with wondering if rats and mice could be
spontaneously generated from piles of dirty rags. Simply put,
resistance and immunity all have different levels, and the
materials (such as vaccines) must be applied correctly to receive
the desired immunity, in an effort to protect the wider population.
After the panel, in Zurich, I was asked, "What would you do if
some places in your country mandated vaccinations?" I
responded, 'They do. Schools require it. Every public school I
ever entered or entered a child into, required it.'
This aforementioned question brings into stark relief the issue of
"ethno- and/or ego-centrism" within the claims against my
perhaps not knowing what was happening in any given
community, worldwide, now doesn't it? We are not so unlike
each other, now are we? But I have called no one of them a
"name." I was also asked: 'What would you say if you were told
you had no choice to give, that whatever was put in front of you
would be injected into you?' I answered, 'I would tell them to go
to hell! That's my decision to make. I have asked others assist us,
to open the databases, but some are content to scream.'
During the panel I said that vaccines can confer immunity, and
that everyone needs to look into the eyes of their children and
make their own decisions. How does one jump from there to
"encourage the use" unless one's own conscience is in the mix
somewhere? Once more, listen to/watch the WHOLE video,
BEFORE making a decision for yourselves.
My God, a man showed me his "L.A. Angels" baseball cap, at the
Sunday "workshop" which had been made plain would be about
the subjects raised by the audience. (People have to own their
behaviors. Would we have likely been willing to act like we were
"force feeding" people our own agenda, the following morning
after the vaccine question was raised?) As I suggested we trade,
his for mine, someone actually wrote claiming that it was a
DISINFORMATION act. What? FOR GOODNESS SAKE, IT
WAS A BASEBALL HAT WE TRADED! Do you perceive
something "unusual" in such a claim against us? I do. Is that their
New World?
I came there expecting that I could be arrested, and that is the
best the negatives could offer? My goodness, what could be the
result of finding out that a 24 year resident of Zurich brought me
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
a 1973 vintage Angel's baseball jacket, after the workshop was
done...a sign of the New World Order? What could this mean?
Another conspiracy, or just maybe some good people spent some
time with other good people and gave of their hearts too.
(KIM_1.jpg and KIM_2.jpg)
I bet that those who find conspiracy in that would really like to
see the secret handshake exchanged between David and myself
before departing from the hotel to the airport!
(JOKE_1.jpg)
If you believe that's real, then how about the photo of David and
myself, after an alleged drinking binge in downtown Zurich?
(JOKE_2.jpg)
Are they real or are they jokes? If anyone thinks they are real,
please refer to the following link:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsKO_r76kfQ
The information that we approached a certain Senator about a
database is true, and has already been presented on the Eagles
Disobey website. Yes, we have written to a Senator and have thus
far received little action. Why? We are going to try to find out.
We will take further steps. The unusual thing is that NO ONE,
not a soul we heard at the conference asked us what database we
were talking about! Review the video/audio. Of course it is the
"CDC's VSD" - but no one even asked! Why? When something is
important to me, I ask questions. I even asked others to help, or
that we would join them in their efforts. So far, we have received
no such efforts. We will publish the written comments offered at
the conference. If we do, we will do what we can to help.
Otherwise, our offer for their voices to be added to our own will
remain, and we will take those actions we feel appropriate to
investigate this issue.
We have been suggested many things which we should say. The
most sensible and simple of which is that "we oppose mandatory
vaccinations." Well, we do oppose mandatory vaccinations on a
personal level of choice, but the world and these issues are much
more complicated than would allow for us to make such a blanket
statement, regarding the ethical/moral implications for whole
societies. Where does any given society have the right, as a
whole, to make a decision for its own best benefits? Who is
keeping anyone a member of that society, once such decisions are
made? Who relieves anyone of their responsibility to DO
SOMETHING about conditions they feel are wrong?
If people don't like our solution, our investigative manners, they
are free to do something else! There are more of us (we the
people) than there are more of them (gov officials), aren't there?
Where does individual responsibility kick in, versus the
willingness to make a charge, or running away into the darkness,
or the hiding behind anonymity on the internet? "My name is
Dan. What's yours?" The writer of the single negative email to us,
out of 629 received was listed as "Joe Public." Right. The next
one may have the name "Mr. VOX POPULI VOX DEI." We
filed his/her letter with "Jane Doe's" from a few years ago.
145
(Moreover...Marcia and I are doing what we can, with a cutting
edge project, we call Project Isis...in a near future attempt to help
people. We don't believe, that in the 21st century, we should be
having to use NEEDLES AT ALL! We see a future for humanity
where disease prevention, diagnosis/treatment, is done with the
use of LIGHT and SOUND. Help us, help us get there? Let us
know if you wish to.)
I made it very clear to some individuals...and will continue to do
so as necessary...that while bloggers and certain websites have
the liberty to make blanket sociological statements, without fear
of much legal, ethical or moral ramifications, we at Eagles
Disobey, due to my professional status, do not possess that
comfortable latitude. Social responsibility as we see it will be
carried through, no matter how popular or unpopular. It's just that
simple.
The one greatest seeming worry, of just two of those individuals
who screamed and ran out, with whom we later met privately,
was that because Eagles Disobey has so many hits, our efforts
may encourage people to become vaccinated against things like
the Mumps, Polio, etc. He said, "They listen to you."
...but he did buy me a cup of coffee, and I thanked him for the
coffee. For some reason, he seemed...worried about our website.
We have taken note. For some reason, I had deja vu of 2005 and
my trip to Brussels?
Why? Could it mean that the real conspiracy is 100% the
opposite than being described by a few (in comparison to the true
population)? Could vaccinations be a threat, for other reasons? In
our continuance of telling you all the truth, we have come across
evidence, real evidence, of what might be behind some of the
recent ongoings - including H1N1 - and we will report it publicly,
BUT NOT BEFORE the information is trackable. Too many
people say "I heard..." I have done the same, but have tried to
parse out the quality of evidence, and be OPEN with what is
more credible or less credible. But...too many say "I heard" and
other people take that as Gospel, when it is not! We, at Eagles
Disobey, try to qualify information BEFORE we pass it along.
For instance...
We had an unanticipated 24 hour layover in Zurich, before
returning home. On arrival at the airport we were told by Delta
Airlines that the Flight Crew had been given a 3 hour later time
for the departure (instead of 1pm, it would be 4pm), and that they
(the Flight Crew) were being told of the error and we should be
departing on time. On arrival at the gate (together with David) we
were told that the departure would be delayed by one hour, due to
the same issue. Almost immediately, the rumors started. The best
ones I heard were that the Flight Crew (1) decided to make us
wait, (2) were drunk, or were (3) shopping in downtown Zurich.
In my view...they were told late, that 1pm was to be the real
departure time, and collected themselves to get there as quickly
as possible. (During the day prior, if they had not done the right
thing, by now the word would have probably been that David,
Marcia, and myself perished in the North Atlantic with the rest of
the passengers and crew. But...they did what was COMMON
SENSE TO DO...NO MATTER HOW UNPOPULAR IT
SOUNDED...AND WE ALL SURVIVED.)
On the second departure day, the gate employees were screamed
at, by some in the crowd who possessed the same amount of
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
evidence under hand as what we faced a few days before that
time, on the panel, by those who ran away out the doors. Just
because they had no real evidence, did that stop them? No! They
yelled names at the gate employees and called them "a- holes!"
Are they "a-holes"? No. They are good people doing the best jobs
they can, under difficult circumstances and passing along
information which some might not find..."welcome." But...they
had enough intestinal fortitude to do their jobs and not "weanie
out" to look good...for a short time. We feel ourselves in good
company with such hard working people as those we met at the
Delta Airlines gate in Zurich.
While in that unanticipated 24 hour layover (due to our jet's
mechanical difficulties), and in between calls into Pakistan (due
to the bombing that happened there), Marcia and I quietly left the
hotel and began our investigation of this matter in the place
which said it wanted it raised: Zurich, Switzerland. A
photographic essay of the beginning of the investigation was
made, with specific photoshots conducted to look into certain
businesses. (We photographed certain information at a certain
place and I conducted a short "interview" with someone....details
later. That place was clearly marked with signs that told me not
to enter! Did I listen to those signs? No. Why not? Concerns
about health were raised, and that meant more to me than the sign
that warned me.) When Eagles Disobey is enjoined to look into a
matter, one must always consider just what impact may result by
what is shaken from any given tree.
My MOM (whose name is Doreen Aglaie Crain [maiden -
LaPierre], not "UNDISCLOSED SOURCE" or "I HEARD") was
the victim of Poliomyelitis (Polio), prior to the advent of the Salk
vaccine, and was lucky to have survived the disease. I remember
her last sets of braces, when I was barely old enough to walk, and
she was still in treatment at Rancho Los Amigos, in California. I
remember my Dad carrying her to a vehicle, to transport her for
treatment.
www.rancho.org
If you look up the address, at the link, you will find out that it
was right next door to where I lived (Lillian Lane) in my early
years, and even right near where I went to Middle School (West
Middle School) a few years later. Real world here, not the B.S. of
"I heard."
THIS MAY BE CROSS PUBLISHED ANYWHERE, AND WAS ESPECIALLY DESIGNED FOR PROJECT CAMELOT,
BUT WILL BE POSTED ON THE GOLDEN THREAD.
www.the-goldenthread.proboards.com
.
146
I was the victim of a formaldehyde carryover + errant vaccine
load, into the vaccines I was given, in the early 1970's. I never
had Polio. It just so happens that someone who was really there
and watched the reality of "iron lungs"...who had not been given
the opportunity to benefit from such a vaccination as it had yet
not been developed...wished better for her son. I thank God she
did. For those who don't "believe" in vaccinations, does that
make her a worse person than me because she had the disease? I
mean, it couldn't have been given to her by the vaccination, AS
SHE NEVER HAD ONE. Or is this just another case of
something which must remain just out of everyone's reach, like
Planet X hiding behind the Sun each time we look for it.
I find that many find it very easy to speak against issues, after
possibly benefiting from same. They almost seem outnumber
those who would do just about anything to look good for political
expediency. We, Marcia and I, don't choose to follow those paths,
but we will investigate matters and report what we find.
I look forward to reporting on what we find, as a result of this
investigation, in Los Angeles, at "Awake and Aware." The
bottom line is that when Project Camelot is presenting the
information which we are all saying, and cutting edge new
information, they are doing an invaluable service to humankind.
They are shaking that tree, but what will fall out of it may be
shocking to some, difficult for others. Marcia and I both support
their efforts to present the material and LET OTHERS make up
their own minds. That has been the philosophy behind Eagles
Disobey, and continues to be. But... if anyone is afraid to cross
post this...DON'T. We are quite used to the conduct we faced
from a few (amongst a mass of great people), a few days
ago...and there is plenty of darkness...of human-self-making...to
hide within. The Illuminati didn't cause a few people to behave
that way...or did they? Bill... and as the travelers said to Corso...
had it right. It's a 'New World, If You Can Take It.' Either way,
our investigation will be published on Eagles Disobey.
Chat with you all, when I am next privileged to do so.
Love (which comes in many packages),
Dan"
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Barcelona Exopolitics
Speakers Panel On Disclosure
23 July 2009
Featuring (left to right): Paola Harris, Brian O'Leary, Bob Dean, Stephen Bassett, Kerry Cassidy, Bill Ryan, Michael Salla, Alfred Webre, Nick
Pope, and Robert Fleischer. Dr Steven Greer was invited by the Barcelona conference organizers, but declined to take part.
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Part 1 Of 2
BILL RYAN (BR): So this is Bill Ryan here, and…
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Kerry Cassidy...
BR: ...from Project Camelot and we are honored, genuinely
honored, and privileged to have been invited here to the
Exopolitics Summit in Barcelona. And the date today, somebody,
is?
NICK POPE (NP): Twenty-third of July, 2009.
BR: Excellent. [laughter] This is the guy from the Ministry of
Defence, who always knows what day it is and what’s going on.
Thank you very much, Nick.
What we are doing here is we’re gathering the opportunity to talk
with most of the speakers, who are appearing here this weekend
on Spain’s first Exopolitics Summit. This is a formal/informal
gathering, a meeting of great minds, considerable experience
between us, I think. I won’t add up the number of years -- it
might be embarrassing.
We’re just going to talk about the general subject of Disclosure
and just see, once we kick that ball off, where it might go in the
next hour and a half. Kerry...
147
KC: [laughs] I would like to say that we are going to do a
transition about an hour and half into this, onto live radio. So I
just want to say that caveat right at the beginning. On top of it,
we decided we would start out with introductions, so we’re going
to go around the table and do some brief introductions of all the
speakers here. I want to start off with Paola, Paola Harris.
PAOLA HARRIS (PH): My name’s Paola Harris. I’m a little old
American journalist. I’ve been working in this field for 30 years.
I began working with Dr. J. Allen Hynek, astronomer, researcher,
professor at Northwestern University, because he was a
consultant to Steven Spielberg for Close Encounters of the Third
Kind. And so I saw the film and I went to see him and he was my
teacher for 6 years. I knew this was real, because I started with a
scientist who was working in this field.
I just want to say that I graduated – because I’m a teacher; I also
have a Masters in education – from ecology to what I call
Exopolitics. And my definition of Exopolitics is: the formal
academic study of the UFO phenomena and contact and its
political and sociological implications for the planet.
So now I am mainly in that field and I’ve written three books, the
last one All Of The Above, which talks about possible protocols of
Exopolitics. Protocols -- things like we need to look at a universal
and planetary involvement. This is not an American problem; it’s
not a French problem; it’s not a German problem -- it is a
planetary problem.
So that’s where I’m coming from. That will be my focus, that
will be my talk, and that is what I’m interested in.
BR: Paola, thank you very much. Dr. Brian O’Leary...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Dr. BRIAN O’LEARY (B’OL): My name is Brian O’Leary. In
1967 I was appointed to go to Mars by NASA, as an astronaut.
Then, when the U.S. got involved in Vietnam, I became a free
energy activist and a peace activist.
The contact experience and the whole UFO phenomenon, to me,
ushers in many more things that can help us with our own
problems here on the planet.
My principle activity over the last several years has been to visit
the laboratories of some of the best and brightest so-called zero-
point and other breakthrough clean energy concepts.
My latest book, The Energy Solution Revolution, talks about the
politics and the social implications of a breakthrough energy
economy. I think that the energy – and because of the suppression
of free energy technologies, which has been rampant, and the
high danger of doing this kind of work – makes it extremely
symbiotic with the whole question of UFO/ET disclosure.
So to me Exopolitics means going outside the box of normal
inquiry and being able to embrace those technologies which can
truly create a sustainable future for planet Earth.
BR: Wonderful.
STEPHEN BASSETT (SB): You know, Brian, they are sending
people to Mars now, so you still have a shot.
[laughter]
KC: And, from what we understand, all you do is walk into a sort
of, like, elevator or ‘jumproom’ to Mars, and so there’s no flight
actually involved.
B’OL: Well that sure beats chemical rockets.
BR: You bet.
KC: So, that’s another story. And now...
BR: [to Bob Dean] Do you know what? I’d love to call you Dr.
Bob Dean. I think we should start calling you Dr. Bob Dean.
BOB DEAN (BD): Call me anything you like, as long as I’m not
late for dinner.
KC: But didn’t you say Sergeant Major?
BR: Command Sergeant Major.
SB: Command Sergeant Major.
KC: Okay.
BR: Bob, who are you? Tell the world. This is your chance.
BD: I have to stand up. I don’t talk well sitting down.
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BR: Very good.
BD: I first became aware of the extraterrestrial presence 45 years
ago, but I didn’t come out and start speaking about it until 1991.
I took an Oath when I was in the military. I had Cosmic Top
Secret clearance while I was at SHAPE [Supreme Headquarters
of Allied Forces in Europe] Headquarters in Paris and I took an
Oath not to divulge any of the classified material that I had
learned while I was in the service and while I was in Paris.
I kept myself to that Oath until 1991. A couple of events occurred
in 1991 that outraged me to such a point that I could not keep
quiet any longer.
A good friend of mine, an Air Force fighter pilot, had just gotten
back from a full tour in Japan. He was flying his jet over Florida
and he had an incident in the sky at 40,000 feet, where he looked
out of his canopy to the left and he happened to see a circular
disk with a dome and he found himself looking into the face of
another human being looking at him.
When he got back on the ground, he had to talk to somebody
about it and explain what happened. Well, speaking openly about
it was his mistake.
The Air Force grabbed him, sent him to Newfoundland, to a
United States Air Force base in Newfoundland, without his
family. Now, back in those days, they did things like that. I’ve
been told that they don’t do those things anymore, but I don’t
believe it.
Another thing that brought me out of the closet, as it were – a
figure of speech – I was denied a promotion for a job. I was
working in Pima County as an Emergency Services Special
Operations, Field Operations. My boss retired; I applied for his
job, I went through the entire hiring process, and I was turned
down for the job.
I confronted the sheriff, who happened to have the hiring
authority at the time, and I was told that: Well, you’re one of
those people who speaks out a little bit openly about UFOs. I
can’t have you working in here, in the Department of Emergency
Services.
And if you’ll forgive my French, I got myself the meanest lawyer
in town and I sued the son of a bitch. I went through two years of
litigation, spent $20,000 of money that I did not have, and, after
two years of litigation, I won the lawsuit. I got the job; I got the
back pay; and I got $100,000 of tort damages.
But I was so outraged at these two incidents – that I had been
denied a job promotion, and my good friend had been sent to
Newfoundland without his family -- I reached such a level of
outrage, frustration, anger, aggravation, that I began to violate my
National Security Oath and speak openly about what I had
learned, what I’d been shown, what I had been told... because I
had had Top Secret clearances all my career.
BR: Anger is a great motivator.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BD: You see, I’m not an easy person to get along with,
sometimes, by the very nature of the fact that I retired as a
Command Sergeant Major. We had a reputation, all of whom
retired Command Sergeant Majors have a reputation of being
able to chew ass and take names, as they used to say, [Kerry
laughs] so I have no patience and I have no toleration for lies.
BR: Bob, thank you so much for that.
BD: So, I came out of the closet in ’91. I’ve been speaking
openly and bluntly about this subject. And I want to say to you all
who are here that this is the greatest, most important subject in
the history of the human race, because, essentially, it is the story
of the human race.
Ladies and gentlemen, good friends, all of you -- we are not
alone and we have never been alone. We have had an intimate
interrelationship with advanced extraterrestrial intelligence from
the beginning of our history, and that interrelationship is still
going on.
I’m very gratified to be a part of this conference here in
Barcelona. And I want to make it very clear to anyone who’s
interested is that I take my hat off to the sponsors of this program
for having the courage to do what they’re doing here.
This is important, so pay attention, and listen -- because you ain’t
seen nothin’ yet! [laughter] Thank you.
BR: Bravo.
VOICE: Wow!
BR: Okay.
KC: Stephen Bassett...
BR: Following that, Steve, are you an angry man?
STEPHEN BASSETT (SB): Mm, not at the moment.
First and foremost, I think, it’s important that I say that I speak
for all of us, when I say that we have nothing against the
perfectly fine Canadian province of Newfoundland, and I look
forward to going there someday and talking about Exopolitics.
So, for you Newfoundlanders out there -- it’s okay, no problem.
I’m Stephen Bassett. I founded the Paradigm Research Group in
1996 for one reason only – to pursue the political resolution of
the UFO issue. That’s it and that’s all that I’ve done for the last
13 years.
The science and the UFOlogy and the study of the sightings and
all that had gone about as far as it could, in my view, by then, and
it was clear that the government had a policy of withholding the
truth and acknowledgement. So that had to be addressed.
In the early days, back then, ’96, ’97, we were looking for new
terms, a new lexicon, and we talked about the politics of UFOs,
which is kind of a bridge term. And then we talked about the
concept of Disclosure. That word turned up.
149
But in 2000, the word Exopolitics turned up, and that was due to
the gentleman sitting to my left, Alfred Webre, and, very quickly,
he was joined by others, in particular, Dr. Michael Salla.
But the moment I heard Exopolitics, that term... the moment I
heard it, instantly, I knew that that was the umbrella under which
we were going to proceed. That was the boat that we would sail
in.
And, so within a few days, I think within a week, I contacted Art
Bell. And there was something else going on at the time
involving Danny Sheehan, an activist Attorney, and I said: We
need to get Alfred and Danny Sheehan on the show at the same
time, because I was doing that for them back then, helping them
put together some shows.
So Danny Sheehan and Alfred Webre came on. Danny was
talking about some events that occurred in the Carter
administration and Alfred was talking about that as well. They
both had a connection with the Carter administration and that was
the reason, but, of course, Alfred was talking about Exopolitics.
And so from that day forward – 2000 – we had that new term. In
only nine years, it has now become on the edge of being a very
significant change in thinking, in terminology, a new field of
study.
When you Google it, you can get, I think now, something like
180,000 returns off of Exopolitics. There’re no extra pages; it’s
all about the UFO/ET issue. It has no other use in the English
language. Six hundred thousand, I think, on Yahoo. It’s on the
verge of being in the dictionary.
So that’s in nine years. A new field has developed and you need
that. You need language in order to move forward. You need new
language to go into new places.
So this conference is part of that. I’m glad to be a part of it and I
look forward to presenting on Sunday. BR: Very good.
BD: Bill, may I interject something? Make your needs known
and there will be somebody who’s listening. [Kerry, Bill laugh;
background chatter]
SB: I need a milkshake, but I don’t think I’m going to get it.
BD: To your health -- to all of you, to your health.
SB: Very good.
BR: [to Kerry] Who are you?
KC: Oh, well, no, no, no. Actually, I would like to continue
around the circle here.
BR: You don’t want to say anything about Camelot?
KC: Well, I think, in the end, we can.
BR: Well, okay. Okay.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: All right? I think the next person that we need to introduce is
Dr. Michael Salla.
Dr. MICHAEL SALLA (MS): In 2001, I was a professor at a
university in Washington, D.C. – American University – and I
was teaching international politics. I had graduate-level classes.
I saw the video of the Disclosure Conference, the Disclosure
Project Press Conference, and that really startled me. I just had
no idea that this kind of information was out there. Prior to that, I
always thought that extraterrestrial life was real, but, you know,
some day in the future, they’ll contact us, and wow, the world
will change.
So, when I saw that press conference, my world kind of really
crumbled in terms of how I understood international politics and
what was happening in the world.
And so, one of the first things I did was I showed the press
conference video to a class. The class was on Theories of
Conflict, Violence, and War and I showed it to the class, 25
graduate students; very progressive Liberal Arts students at
American University. I showed them the press conference and
then I said, you know: What do you think?
And I asked the students: Well, line up in terms of... line up.
There’s going to be a line on the extreme right. If you agree
strongly that this video is real, that you agree with that very
strongly, then get on the right. If you disagree strongly, then get
on the left. If you’re kind of neutral, get in the middle.
So I asked them to separate themselves, where they fit in on that
line. And, of the 25 students, two agreed, one strongly; and one
moderately agreed that the video was real, that the testimonies
were valid; the other 23 were either strongly opposed or kind of
neutral about it.
That shocked me because, basically, what I was seeing was that
university students weren’t ready to accept this information as
real. They just came up with many of the standard responses:
Well, they’re making it up. How do we know it’s real? CNN
would tell us if it were real. So that was kind of an important eye-
opener for me.
I found that the university administration was similarly not very
impressed with this topic. So that led to my forced removal from
the university and I’ve been studying Exopolitics ever since,
which for me, really involves looking at three different processes,
or three different things.
It’s looking at: What are the main actors, or the individuals,
involved with the question of extraterrestrial life? So we looked
at, say, the role of the presidents – Truman, Eisenhower,
Kennedy, and so forth – how they dealt with this issue of
extraterrestrial life.
The second is we look at the institutions. What are the main
institutions that are being involved with this issue? So, straight
away, we come up with, say, the different intelligence
departments, especially the CIA Counter-Intelligence, the
National Reconnaissance Office [and] the NSA. So those are
some of the institutions.
150
Then I looked at what are the processes involved here? Some of
the processes are like maintaining secrecy, maintaining a
psychological warfare program to discredit, debunk this whole
question in the general public arena, and also funding these
projects, which are occurring behind the scenes.
So those are the questions and the issues that I’m very interested
in. I’ve been doing this now for eight years and I’m still learning
and still finding things to be amazed at. So, this is truly an
amazing field.
The more years you put into it, the more things that you have
more questions about. I haven’t yet reached that point where I
feel that I’ve understood the big picture.
BR: That’s right. The more you find out, the less you know.
[laughs] Thank you. Alfred?
ALFRED WEBRE (AW): Thank you very much. As I was
saying, I’m a futurist, an activist, and a lawyer.
KC: Are you Doctor Alfred Webre?
AW: You know, I always think that the lawyers tried to get a
phony PhD? [Kerry laughs] Because I got an LLB and the Legal
Association then changed all law degrees to JD. So, technically,
are we lawyers -- doctors? Doctor? What do you think?
SD: You’re a Juris Doctor, which sounds even better.
AW: Yeah, I’m a Juris Doctor, but I think that it’s kind of back
door. [laughter] That’s kind of how I am. I always question
things, and, well...
I think that Steve has really given sort of a contextual background
to what has happened over the first ten years of Exopolitics.
What I’ve come here to this Summit to really talk about is the
next ten or eleven years, and that is in terms of what the larger
astronomical and cosmic cycles that will be occurring – in an
amazing synchrony – that will serve as motors or propellants of
the process of Disclosure, and more deeply, the process of a
transformation of our reality and the reality of all living things, I
think, which includes animals, plants, and minerals… [laughs]
according to some of you.
I just want to bring all that kind of cosmic consciousness here,
because I think that that is really what Disclosure is about, and
what will fuel Disclosure will be an interactive elevation of the
consciousness of...
…and I see a gentleman back there, who will remain nameless,
who is saying: Yes!
So, just very briefly, we’re talking about the solar cycle-24 from
2009 to 2020, with solar maximum at 2012 to 2013. And, by the
Index of Human Excitability that goes back to 500 BC, we know
that all revolutions, wars, riots, and the fundamental fixing of
things in society happens during the solar maximum, which
NASA tells us now is in May of 2013.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So, in that general term, we’re in for some really dynamite stuff.
If we want to be changing agents in a positive way, now’s the
time to put out our agenda, as Dr. Bob Dean says. [laughter]
Another cycle is the cycle of the Matrix of Time Acceleration,
which Dr. Carl Johan Calleman and Barbara Hand Clow, a
colleague of mine who lives in Vancouver, Canada, also, talk
about. That is, where time is accelerating, the rate of change is
accelerating; the rate of our consciousness is accelerating.
And there will be, probably, according to this theory, 20 times as
much change in the year 2011 as there was between 1999, when
the Internet started, and the beginning of 2011. So that’s the
backdrop for how Disclosure can take place.
And, finally, there are the larger Galactic and cosmic cycles, sort
of the source of our thoughts; of our reality; of our DNA, as well;
of the stars; the black hole at the center of our Galaxy – most
galaxies have black holes – and how it will be programming the
other 97 percent of our junk DNA in the coming years, so that we
can become more capable of interacting and, therefore, things
will be disclosed.
So I look forward to this process, and the process of the weekend.
BD: Very good.
BR: Thank you, Alfred. I just want to say here that this idea of an
Index of Human Excitability – I just think that’s such a wonderful
name, I just love it -- I take it very seriously; but, for me, it’s like:
How appropriate is that? How excitable are we all now? You
know. And where’s it going to go?
KC: Okay. Well, calm right down. [laughter]
BR: Oh, I’m getting too excited.
KC: You’re getting too excited. And let’s introduce…
BR: Nick.
NICK POPE (NP): Okay, I’m just plain Nick Pope -- no doctor,
nothing like that. My background is government, British
government. I worked for the Ministry of Defence for 21 years. I
did about seven or eight different jobs in that period and the one
which has lead to me sitting at this table is a job that I did from
1991 through to 1994, when I was responsible for researching
and investigating the UFO phenomenon for the British
government.
The brief was to look at the two or three hundred UFO sightings
we had each year to see whether they were already defense-
significant, which rather cleverly, in government terms, is
something that we didn’t actually ever define. Perhaps that’s a
point for later.
Anyway, my views on this were that most of these things, of
course, turned out to be misidentifications. There were plenty of
cases where these things were seen by pilots and police officers,
where they were tracked on radar, performing speeds and
151
maneuvers which seemed to go significantly ahead of anything in
our own inventory, including prototype aircraft and drones.
So my position on the UFO phenomenon is that, I think,
whatever it is – and I’m not one of these people that have a neat
answer -- I’m sure, perhaps, there aren’t any neat answers in this
business. I think there are probably lots of different things going
on, lots of overlap.
But my position is, whatever the nature of this phenomenon, or
phenomena, I believe it raises some interesting and important
defense, national security and their safety issues. Other issues
too, which others better qualified than me here are going to
discuss on the societal implications, the sociological implications.
That’s probably less my field.
What I’m here to really talk about at this conference is something
which has been going for about a year and a half now – the
British government’s ongoing program to declassify and release,
to the National Archives, the entire archive of British UFO files
going back to the ’50s and coming into the present day. So it’s
interesting times in the UK and it’s been a story all around the
world.
I left the Ministry of Defence in 2006. I now work as a freelance
journalist, a media commentator, not just on the unexplained, but
on conspiracy theories, some political and some defense issues.
That’s me.
BR: Very good. I like it.
BD: May I ask a question, please?
NP: Sure.
BD: The material that has been released so far – and I assume
you’ve checked it, looked at it, read it – is there anything in there
of any real substance? [Kerry laughs]
NP: Yes, there is. I think what there isn’t… Let me answer that in
reverse. There isn’t – and I don’t mean this in a disparaging way,
but it’s a neat sound bite that I have used before – there isn’t a
spaceship-in-a-hanger smoking gun.
That said, there are plenty of those sorts of cases that I was
mentioning where things have been tracked on radar performing
some quite remarkable speeds, plenty of police cases, plenty of
military cases.
The one that really stood out, and I discussed it on Fox News,
amongst others, was the case of Milton Torres, the fighter pilot
who, in 1957, whilst a United States Air Force pilot posted over
to the UK, was ordered to shoot down a UFO over the mainland
UK. So that’s a case that I’m going to be discussing in some
detail at this conference.
PH: I want to add that I interviewed, as a journalist, Milton
Torres. This goes to show that, yes, he was ordered to shoot
down a UFO in 1957, so there are shoot-down orders.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
But what I saw on a human level, and this is part of Exopolitics
also, is that he was very emotional about telling the story. He told
it at the X-Conference with Nick at Stephen Bassett’s X-
Conference in April.
But as a journalist, when I interviewed him, he was very
emotional, because his father had died two years ago, and he had
kept this secret for so long. He began to cry and was very
emotional about it.
These people keep these secrets so long, until the Ministry of
Defence released these files. It’s a huge burden, and there are so
many of them. I think more countries should release their files.
BR: And it’s happening.
KC: Absolutely.
BR: It’s happening.
KC: Well, Disclosure... That’s what it’s all about.
BD: Did the Ministry of Defence ever, ever take a position on
Peter Horsley’s memoir, where he said that he spent an afternoon
having tea with an extraterrestrial? And Peter Horsley was a
retired Air Marshall.
NP: Indeed. The Ministry of Defence, as far as I can tell, made
some efforts to, shall we say, brief against him. In other words, a
quote ended up in the media which was – and I’m doing this from
memory -- but, it was something like: How unfortunate that a
man, when he was posted to Strike Command at that level and
had his finger on the nuclear button, has been seeing aliens. So,
behind the scenes, they were disparaging him.
BD: Isn’t that sad.
NP: It is sad and it’s disrespectful.
KC: It is disrespectful.
NP: Of course, I mean, the other important thing is, of course,
that person, as is often the case – well, always the case in this
situation – didn’t give their name. They were just listed as a
defense source.
BD: Uh-huh.
NP: A senior defense source told us...
BD: Peter Horsley was one of your top people; he was an Air
Marshall. I would have thought they would have paid attention
and given some respect to his opinion.
NP: No, they just... they deployed the usual line, which is: Let’s
put in a slightly disparaging comment, but see if we can get the
phrase “little green men” somewhere in there and let’s hope
everyone just moves on.
BD: Thank you. I’m glad they got that on film.
152
BR: Okay. Thank you, Bob. Rob...
ROBERT FLEISCHER (RF): Yes!
BR: …you’re waiting very patiently.
KC: Say your whole name and your background.
RF: All right. My name’s Robert Fleischer. I’m the founder and
coordinator of Exopolitics Germany and it’s a great privilege to
be sitting here at this table with these brilliant minds.
I’ve studied a lot and read a lot of things you’ve said and, I have
to say, I’m just so curious how this is all going to unfold. I’m
going to make it short, as I don’t even have the smallest part of
the background that you all have.
I came in touch with this field when I was 16 years old when I
first met the author, Erich von Däniken, who wrote Chariots of
the Gods in 1968 or something, and became friends and
whatever. He was in my region and we met, and we had
discussions and conversations.
We spent hours sitting on the lawn talking about God and the
world and the extraterrestrials. It was so exciting for me at the
age of 16.
So, you know, it kind of made me curious about what else was
there? And wouldn’t it be important for us all to know about it?
And why isn’t that on the media?
So I started a journalist career. At a very early age, I started
working for a local newspaper. Then I was a presenter on a local
television show. So I kept working in this field and did my
university degree at the same time.
Then, like five years ago, I think, I stopped working for
television, because I finally understood that the reason why these
important things which we are discussing here – which is the
alien presence and free energy and consciousness.
Why that is not in the mass media is not because people there --
they never think about doing that on the media – no; it’s just
because they don’t have the chance to do that, because television
is simply not the right medium to do that. People don’t want that
on television, because television has a certain control in our
society, a certain control function.
So, I stopped working for television when I came across a kind of
free energy device, made a TV report about it, and they wouldn’t
let me report on it; they never actually broadcast that.
Then a couple of years later, I also came across the Disclosure
Project Press Conference on the Internet and that kind of
triggered my curiosity again in this field because I thought: How
the… [laughs]
It’s impossible that, in the mass media, you always hear about
weather balloons or whatever, and then there’s these highly-
credible military witnesses and insiders -- all of you just sitting
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
here at this table -- how is it possible that I’ve never heard about
that?
So I thought about what could I do? So I founded Exopolitics
Germany, which is, as Stephen said, an umbrella for all kinds of
activities in this field, which are necessary to bring this issue
forward. It’s such a huge field; it’s physical evidence, cover-up
[and] Disclosure.
But, what I’m interested in -- and that’s my personal interest in
this -- is the fact that these craft appear and disappear, shows that
our reality is obviously much greater than what we ever thought
it is. It’s not just three dimensions, plus linear time. No, it’s much
more than that. And I wanted to find out: What is it?
And, if these extraterrestrial visitors master these dimensions --
these superior dimensions, or supplementary dimensions, or
however you want to call them -- what does that mean for their
states of consciousness? How are they thinking? What kind of
consciousness level must they have to be able to adopt to – to
master – these dimensions? And what will it mean for us to
understand how they think?
Or, to put it in another way, what would be the next level of
evolution in human consciousness? Because we might assume
that we would also come across these other dimensions sooner or
later. So, that is what I’m actually interested in most.
But what really interests me the most is the consciousness thing
and I’m strongly convinced that everything is actually, in the end,
a question of consciousness. [to Brian] Yes, please.
B’OL: Yeah, I was just going to say that: Yes, the more recent
experiments that are being done among humans is the incredible
power of positive intention; that people coming together in
groups with an intention can actually create that reality.
It’s interesting that you have these two parallel tracks going on.
One is science, very good science, being done here on the Earth
by university scientists and, at the same time, you have the ET-
UFO-Disclosure issue, and the two are very intertwined, because
the ET/UFO phenomenon just points so clearly towards this.
We need to know this and we need all the help we can get from
our off-plant/on-planet people that are going against the grain of
Black Ops, and going against the grain of these horrible agendas,
that we can actually heal the planet; we can have a sustainable
future.
So, from my own point of view, I’m just very grateful to be here
among you and to be able to interact in this way.
BR: That’s wonderful, Brian. Thank you so much. Let me have a
go here, [to Kerry] then I’ll let you have the last word.
KC: Absolutely.
BR: For me, having this kind of conference sometimes feels like
a group of fishermen on a little island in the Pacific Ocean who
are sitting around a campfire trying to figure out whether there’s
anyone else in the world. And what are these funny, shiny things
153
that they see up in the air? Do you believe that I saw this thing up
in the sky? It’s like: What is that thing? Is that real, or what?
Our level of sophistication in asking these questions may not
come close to the level of sophistication that’s needed in order to
get the answers. This is a bridge over, I think, into the world of
Exopolitics.
Because, while those islanders around this campfire in the South
Pacific might be arguing with each other about whether they’re
all alone in the world and what are these metal things that some
people say that they see in the sky, what we’re really interested in
is – assuming that there are other people in the world and
assuming that they do fly around in these metal things in the sky
– what are their agendas?
What are they doing with the world? What are they doing with
our world? What is it that they might be doing that we might
need to know about on our little island? What might be their
agendas for us? What’s it all about, and who are we, and how did
we get here in the first place?
And if we look at the political implications of that, the questions
are so enormous and so far beyond the questions that one might
get in – I don’t know – in a media article about: Is it possible that
aliens could really exist?
It’s like, come on! This is a given! But who are they? Where are
they from? When are they from? What are they doing? What’s
our place in the universe and what do we need to know in order
to understand these things?
What do our own governors and politicians and military
intelligence specialists know that we are not being told? And why
are we not being told?
I believe that the Exopolitics movement is trying to speak to
those issues and this is one of the directions in which, I think, that
this whole conversation would like to go.
Before I introduce my colleague, Kerry Cassidy, I want to say
that several people here have talked about Steven Greer’s
Disclosure Project Press Conference and I remember exactly
where I was when that happened.
I was driving down a Scottish road at about two o’clock in the
morning and this was coming over on live BBC Radio. I was so
astonished that I stopped my car to listen to it, because I didn’t
know whether this was a joke. Then I realized this was real, this
was being streamed live. And I thought: This is amazing! This is
now going to turn the world on its head. This is extraordinary
what Steven Greer is doing.
I wish he was here right now because I want to acknowledge him
for that. That was an incredible thing.
Then many of us waited for what was next, what was going to
happen after this. Where was the Disclosure Project going to go
next after this incredible public relations feat which they created?
One of the things that happened while we were waiting is that
Kerry Cassidy picked up a consumer-grade camcorder that is
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about as big as this wine glass, from what I can remember, and
started going to UFO conferences to talk to them, because
somebody had to do that job.
It doesn’t matter whether you’ve got money, it doesn’t matter
whether you’ve got high technology, what you need is the
intention to start talking to people, because this is a process that
is, ultimately, all about communication and that’s all.
[to Kerry] And you’re a master communicator. So I now want to
introduce you with that. Tell us about Project Camelot.
KC: [laughs] Well, okay, thank you, Bill. That was a lovely
introduction. Obviously, we’re Project Camelot. We’ve been
asked to come and host this panel discussion. We’re actually
going to sit back and just moderate. In many ways, we’re not
going to be speaking.
But just to introduce us as the moderators, we formed Project
Camelot because we met at Laughlin and, actually, Bill was one
of the people I interviewed. He was one of my first interviewees,
if you will.
When I interviewed him on the subject of Serpo, I was very
impressed by his balance, by his command of the language, by
his sort of good will towards what I knew were probing questions
that I have, sort of a…
BR: That’s a euphemism! [laughs]
KC: ...sort of a talent with handling. He really rolled with it very
nicely; he handled it well. And yet he was very, very
straightforward.
He wasn’t taking sides, other than to say that the Serpo story was
something that he felt was important enough [that] it needed to be
discussed, it needed to be understood and it needed to be talked
about; it needed to be explored and investigated, and he was there
to encourage that process.
I think that, in many ways, what happened when we formed
Project Camelot is that we really wanted to extend what was the
initial impulse of what -- I guess you could call the Disclosure
Project initially -- which was to go out, to put a camera in front of
somebody’s face, to ask them questions, to let the audience
decide. And that’s really been our mission from that day forward.
We decided this in Tintagel. We really connected there. We
connected with the past of King Arthur and the Roundtable and
the idea of, not a hierarchy, but a sort of a utopia in which all
people were equal and all opinions would be listened to.
That’s really what we wanted to do with Project Camelot. We
wanted to allow the camera and the power of the Internet to
connect these people.
It’s been an incredible journey. We’ve gone all over the world.
We’ve interviewed some of the most charming, brilliant minds, I
have to say, that are here on planet Earth at this time. We’ve been
fortunate in that way.
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Some of those people are sitting around the table today with us.
Some are in the audience.
So it’s been very exciting. It’s been a lot of work, hard work.
We’ve gotten tons of support from the audiences around the
world. We want to thank all of them, at the moment, for that.
BR: This is a bridge into our most recent whistleblower
interview. It has not been published; we’re still waiting for the
okay to do that. This is with Dr. Pete Peterson.
We interviewed him; it is nearly four weeks ago now, and he was
a man who had some extraordinary things to say. This is now our
intro into one of the main topics of this conference.
KC: Yeah, absolutely. What we’re covering here is really
Disclosure. And I want to say that, in many ways, what it’s really
all about is truth. That’s what we’re interested in seeking with
Project Camelot, but it’s also what this conference is about.
We’re really trying to get to the bottom of: What is truth? What
does it mean to be human? What does it mean to be a member of
a Galactic Community that involves peoples and extraterrestrials,
interdimensionals, all kinds of beings, all kinds of places, all
kinds of levels [and] all kinds of dimensions?
And to take that holistic view, and the fact that we are
multidimensional beings, simultaneously here and many other
places. We are time travelers, all of us. We are ETs, all of us.
And those are extensions of the concept.
So to get back to the discussion...
BR: What did Pete Peterson say?
KC: One of the things that our recent whistleblower was talking
about was the fact that there... Okay, well, you’re supposed to
talk about this topic.
BR: I’m supposed to talk about this topic? Okay.
What Pete Peterson told us, on camera, is that he had heard from
somebody who had already booked the time with the networks,
that there is to be a planned Disclosure towards the end of this
year by President Obama, who will confirm the reality of contact
with four or five or six -- we don’t quite know the number --
friendly ET races.
That was what he was prepared to say on record. Now, this is the
kind of thing that Stephen Bassett has been waiting for, for the
last 13 years, or longer...
SB: It seems like 30 years, actually, Bill.
BR: ...and what you’ve been saying on record, that Obama is
going to be the Disclosure President.
Now, maybe none of us should hold our breaths, because it’s
quite a long way to hold our breath until the end of the year. And
Peterson was also anxious to say that, just because it’s planned, it
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doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. But we believe him when he
tells us that, at the moment, this is being slated.
There are all kinds of reasons why this might be true. Because, as
Stephen has pointed out, in his many, many on-record comments
about all of this, America is under quite some pressure to
disclose, because how embarrassing would it be for them if some
other little tin-pot country like... Great Britain! [comments,
laughter] Or France!
BD: You’re not going to get a Disclosure like that. Recognize
that it is underway. It’s taking place. It’s been underway for some
time and it’s the form of subliminal education.
When I made a presentation some time back at Laughlin, Nevada,
I spoke about The Three Stevens and the Apocalypse and this
one... [indicating Stephen Bassett]
SB: I was the Apocalypse. [laughter]

[laughter, comments, everyone talking at once]
KC: Okay, before we get into name-calling, I think we should
start off, on the question of Disclosure, knowing what our recent
whistleblower was talking about.
Could you talk about how this affects your view – and we want to
hear from everybody – on whether you think this is possibly
going to happen, whether you think it’s not going to happen and
why; and also what are the implications if it does?
BD: May I?
BR: What are the implications for Exopolitics if it does? And
how does Exopolitics respond, etcetera?
BD: …this was one of the Three Stevens that I spoke about –
Steven Greer, Stephen Bassett, and Steven Spielberg.
BR: Mm-hm.
BD: And I also gave the definition of the Greek word apocalypse,
which is not at all what most fundamentalists think it is, that of
the Four Horsemen riding... what is it?
AW: Armageddon.
BD: War, famine, plague, pestilence, and all that. The Greek
word simply means the disclosure, the unveiling, and the
revealing. Really. That’s been underway now for over 20 years,
and Steven Spielberg has played a major role in that...

BD: It’s been my observation that, when you get 25 people into a KC: Absolutely.
room, you have 25 separate visions of what disclosure really
means.
BD: ...with his movies, and that TV special he did was dynamite,
really. Was it Taken?
KC: Mm-hmm.
KC/PH: Taken.
BD: And my point is this: I think Disclosure is underway and has
been underway for quite a while.
BD: Yeah.
I do not believe that you’re going to have Obama getting on
national television and saying: Gee whiz, guys, we’ve got some BR: Taken.
news for you. [Kerry laughs] We’re not alone. We’ve been visited
by guys from other star systems and other planets. Whoopee! BD: That was so filled with real truth…

And everybody gets excited, you know. They all run to the door KC: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
to get it on the evening news.
BD: …that I would like for them to run it again, and maybe they
That’s not the way it’s going to happen. Now, that’s my view, will. But you’re in the midst of Disclosure, my friends, and it’s
and I’ll be the first to admit that it could happen that way, happening right around you every day.
although I doubt it. [Kerry laughs]
BR: I want to ask... Michael Salla wants to jump in.
But you know, you cannot come out on TV and say: Oh, lookee!
We’ve known this for years. We’ve kept it from you because we KC: I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
didn’t think you could deal with it, but now we’re going to level
with you and tell you the truth. Isn’t that nice?
BR: Michael wants to jump.
BR: Okay.
KC: I think we’d all agree; we are part of Disclosure.
BD: It’s like opening Pandora’s Box.
BR: Michael wants to jump in.
BR: This is where we start to get some really interesting reactions
from people. Already people are leaning forward in their seats KC: But Stephen was supposed to have a chance.
because they want to…

155
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SB: No, no, no. Michael can jump in any time he wants. I always
defer to Michael -- that way I keep getting asked back to Hawaii
after his conferences. [laughter]
KC: I’m deferring to Michael!
MS: I have an idea as to what might be released at the end of this
year. One of the things to keep in mind is: What does the
government know about this?
One of the things that I think is very important is that, in 1969,
there was [a] memorandum released by a Brigadier General
called the Bolender Memo, and that basically said that UFO
reports are separated in terms of their national security
implications. Those that weren’t very significant went into the
Blue Book system, and we know that Blue Book ended in 1969.
Those that had significance in terms of national security went
into the cIrvis system, which is The Communications Instructions
for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings, and that went into a
separate body for study and analysis, because it had national
security implications.
So you have two bodies of information concerning UFOs – those
that are kind of like just the sightings that are recorded by radar
that became part of the Blue Book system and were eventually
released in ’69 or up to ’69; and those that concerned more
significant events, such as crashes of UFO disks, that went into
the CIRVIS system.
So, eventually, where did all of these reports end up?
I believe that the CIRVIS reports went into the archives held by
various corporations that have been studying these files for
reverse engineering applications, for then contracting out to the
military services that might want to use some of this technology.
And the other stuff that didn’t have national security implications
just became available through the NGO [Non-Governmental
Organizations].
So what is going to be released at the end of this year? I think the
key is that what you mention by Dr. Pete Peterson was, you said
up to six races.
Well, I have a kind of memory about who’s talked about up to six
races. In 1977, there was a Congressional Research Study done
that was exploring the question of UFOs: What’s out there?
It was President Carter who asked for this to be conducted,
because he asked the CIA to be briefed on UFOs and he was told:
No – Bush said no to him. So he couldn’t get his hands into what
was actually in the archives. He couldn’t find out, but he asked
the Congressional Research Study to go out and do a study on
this.
This was done by Marcia Smith, who was a senior congressional
science investigator. She went out and she came up with a report
that between two to six extraterrestrial civilizations have been
visiting the Earth.
156
That report was not compartmentalized. That was something that
Danny Sheehan says he has a copy of that. He never released it,
but he has a copy of that.
So I think, if Peterson is correct that towards the end of this year,
we’re going to have a Disclosure, I think what that could be
would be something like Obama ordering the Congressional
Research Service to make this document publicly available. So
you’ll have a Congressional Research Study becoming available
saying that up to six extraterrestrial races are visiting us.
BR: Is it possible that the ETs could force our hands by making
appearances that would require that there be a governmental
response?
SB: It’s possible but it would not be a good thing.
BR: It wouldn’t be a good thing?
SB: No.
BR: Why is that?
SB: There’re basically two kinds... By the way, there’re a number
of things I’d like to comment on at some point.
BR: Yeah.
KC: Well, no. Yeah, I think he…
SB: There’re two basic kinds of Disclosure, okay? One is self-
disclosure. That’s when the nations of the world go to their
people – right? – the ones that they have this social contract with
to govern, and say: Look, this is what we know; we’ve got these
beings here; we know this about them; don’t be alarmed, be
alarmed, whatever and we’re going to try to inform you about
this.
And then over a period of time, weeks, months, years, the public
will, I’m sure, be quite interested in learning everything they can.
That honors the social contract. That’s the way governments are
supposed to operate; that will instill a certain... at least assure that
the contract is honored. That’s one kind.
The other kind is force majeure Disclosure. That’s where the
governments keep going: I don’t know anything; nothing here;
nothing going on; nothing to see; no problem –and, all of a
sudden, big ships start appearing over the cities of the world.
Well, yeah, now the government has to come forward and say:
Well guess what? Yeah, they’re here and we didn’t tell you.
Everybody, of course, is scared to death.
So, in that version, the social contracts of all the First World
nations – Third World nations have other things to worry about –
is broken. You didn’t tell us? You lied? Here they are. What are
we going to do?
And so, that is a much more traumatic, much more disruptive
process that will lead to a lot more problems. And it’s non-trivial;
the difference is quite profound.
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Now, the ETs can do it anytime they want, but I can’t worry
about that. They’re going to do what they’re going to do. They
don’t tell me what they’re up to. All I can do is try to help us get
this self-disclosure process out of the way.
BD: I’d like to ask a question, if I may, and I want to ask it of
Alfred. Do you believe that this extraterrestrial presence should
be a national security issue?
AW: Well I believe yes and no. The yes part is, as researchers,
we have come across the fact that, de facto, it is. The
extraterrestrial presence is… has been handled since at least the
’50s on a national security level.
For example, I worked with a researcher, Andrew Basiago, who
in the company of his father, who was a CIA official, in 1981, at
an Air Force base – at Wright Air Force Base in New Jersey [Ed
note:googling “Wright AFB” brings up Wright-Patterson AFB in
Ohio; googling New Jersey AFBs brings up McGuire AFB in
Wrightstown, NJ] – had a meeting with three Martian astronauts
from the intelligent civilization that lives under the surface of
Mars.
Now, they were there on a visit, on a coordinating visit, with the
Central Intelligence Agency, which means that, if this version is
true, since at least 1971 – just that data-point alone – the US
Central Intelligence Agency, and perhaps other intelligence
agencies, have some sort of a strategic alliance within our Solar
System.
Now, that may be a legitimate matter of national security. But
now we have a whistleblower coming forth who is alleging this
and who has a lot of data to back it up. So that may be a
Disclosure, the issue of the U.S. presence on Mars.
C I mean, Mr. Basiago in 1981 went to Mars via teleportation
from a CIA teleportation launch room in El Segundo, California,
in the company of then-CIA agent Courtney Hunt. These are all
actual names.
And Virginia Olds, a lifetime CIA employee, called him in
January of ’09 to confirm that the CIA knows that there is an
intelligent civilization under the surface of Mars. She said a
million. I have no idea whether that is effective or not.
So the ship is leaking. And whatever the matter of national
security was in 1971 that caused these astronauts to come and
have their liaison meeting, those matters should become public.
And, if there is an Obama announcement... I mean, I’m just
saying this from the particular view that our organization is
pressing Obama to disclose the U.S. presence on Mars, and to
disclose the strategic alliance that it has with the intelligent
civilization on Mars.
BD: Now, do you believe the American public, just as an
example, and the public in the world at large, can deal with this
information?
AW: Yes. And, you know, we have objective data for that. If we
go to the 2002 Roper Report, which is available on the Internet,
there was a specific question that asked in that way. And the
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answer came back that 85 percent of the American public – and,
by extension, I would imagine most adult publics – are congruent
in terms of their religion, their personal values.
The question was: If the government announced that there was an
extraterrestrial presence, how would this impact you?
And the answer was 85 percent: It’s congruent with my religion,
with my personal values, and it would not ruffle any of those very
much.
So we say: The time is now, the place is Mars.
Now, will the U.S. do it? They may not, because in certain ways,
according to certain military plans or intelligence plans, it’s
possible the U.S. base on Mars, or bases on Mars, may be
considered one of the most strategic and important as a gateway
to occupying the Solar System via teleportation. BR: I’d just like
to say, Alfred, for the benefit of the cameras here and for anyone
here who doesn’t know this story, that Henry Deacon, who is
here at this conference, who was here in this room – I can’t see
him right now -- is he there?
SB: No. He stepped out.
BR: He stepped out. He’s just coming in. Here he is.
KC: Okay, well... go ahead, yes.
BR: But we can talk about his testimony because we’ve already
got it on the Camelot site and he supports this fully, as best as
I’m aware. The Mars base has got a population, a peak
population of 670,000. They travel there...
KC: Give or take...
BR: Give or take a few. You know, it depends on what you call
human and what you don’t. They look like us pretty much.
People can commute from this planet.
KC: They’re known as the Anunnaki. That’s the name they go
by.
BR: Some of them are. Some of them are the Anunnaki of old,
the same ones Sitchin talked about, who are now in a couple of
factions. But there is a wide range of races, basically, who all
look like humans, just as we do.
And the travel is through... ah ... essentially, it’s teleportation.
And this is one of the biggest secrets. They’ve got this huge base
there. It’s a multi-functional base.
KC: Okay. But we’re allowing the panel to talk here.
BR: Exactly, but this is important information to put on camera.
KC: Yes. It is.
BR: And we just wanted to support you and we also want to
support Andrew Basiago who we also know. We’re saying the
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guy’s not crazy. We’ve got somebody here in this room who can
support this story. He doesn’t want to go on camera, but he can
speak to the microphone, if he wants to.
KC: Okay. What about some of the other panelists here? What is
your point of view of Disclosure?
PH: First of all, what you’re saying is probable, Alfred. I will say
this now, but I will also disagree as far as going to the public with
Grade Twelve, when we haven’t done Grade One, Two, Three,
Four, and Five of Disclosure yet, because for me, as a teacher...
And this is teaching the public, because they may be able to
assimilate this information, but it’s hard to digest. It changed my
whole entire life.
When I met Hynek, [Ed note: Dr. Josef Allen Hynek] it took a
long time for me to understand that contact was real. I didn’t
want to believe that. I was a nuts and bolts UFOlogist. I wanted
to look at the craft, the sightings. I did not want to go to the
contact part. That was very hard for me, because it changed
reality.
So I disagree with saying that the general public could swallow
this very easily.
But I will support Alfred in this way: I did do an interview with
Pierre Giorgio Agina, who was Marconi’s partner, and while I
was doing that, he mentioned that Marconi, with the Vatican, had
had Martian contact is 1939.
And I knew this material. I did not put it out there, because the
implications of the Vatican with Marconi and extraterrestrials are
very heavy, but I will talk about it today.
I’m not sure that the general public can go there, if they haven’t
understood the nature of Roswell; the nature of the cover-up; the
nature of visitation due to, maybe, our use of nuclear and the fact
that all aliens are not Grays.
These are things that we need to get straightened away, because I
can tell you from having lived in Europe, where aliens look like
us -- the Pleiadians, Billy Meier -- and that there are people in the
universe who look like us.
And then I go and move to America, and on every single magnet,
t-shirt, magazine and everything, I see only the stamp of the Gray
being. That is where they want us to remain in America, because,
if you believe that these extraterrestrials could be – and the
Martians are some of them that look like us, you know, if you
believe that -- then it becomes very dangerous.
As Colonel Corso said: We weren’t afraid of the Extraterrestrial
Biological Entities – he said at the Pentagon – because they were
Extraterrestrial Biological Entities; we were deathly afraid of
their creators, or what could be walking in the halls of the
Pentagon.
So this is very complex. I’m not sure the general pubic, the whole
world and everybody needs to have the whole, entire thing in one
big swallow, because it’s very difficult to digest.
158
BR: Yeah. Thank you, Paola. I want to bring in Brian here,
because I have a sneaking idea that I know what he’s going to
say, but I’ll ask him this question, which is: Have we got time to
be precious about this Disclosure issue? Do we have time on
planet Earth, do you believe?
B’OL: Well, we’re obviously at a huge crossroads here and I’m
aware of the psychological implications of the grieving process
that’s going on right now, that we’re grieving an old paradigm
and transforming to a new. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, in some of her
work, talks about the phases of grief.
We’ve been in a state of mass denial, denial always being the
first stage; the second stage is usually anger.
I had this bumper sticker for a while that said: The truth will set
you free, but first -- it’ll piss you off!
And I think that we’re poised on that. People are getting very
angry and outraged by these cover-ups, so there has to be a
process that, maybe, we can help engineer – and I know, Steve,
you’ve been involved in this – of creating some sort of
negotiating where the transition isn’t too painful for any
particular group.
And that we can get out of this swamp you referred to, Bill, the
swamp of deceit and lies and spin. We’re, I think, in a situation
now where, maybe, we can discuss with our adversaries.
Obviously, the darkest agendas we hear about -- like eugenics
and so forth -- are horrible and we don’t have to do that.
I’d like to be able to discuss that, ultimately, with the rest of the
world, or even with those individuals who are in charge, to be
able to say: Well, maybe we can do something else? Maybe we
can have a world of free energy? Maybe we can support the
current population? Maybe we can make the contact experience
a positive thing for all of us?
And that is the direction I’d like to see us go in. Rather than
coming out fear, come out of a sense of diplomacy and
understanding all around.
BR: That’s a great bridge into the potential role of Exopolitics. I
wonder who wants to pick up that ball and run with it.
RF: Can I say something?
BR: Rob.
RF: Now, you are all great researchers sitting on this table and
it’s doubtlessly so interesting listening to all of the insider stories
and all of the testimony; but, what you just said actually means
that we need to find a way to -- and Paola said that, too -- we
need to find a way to prepare the understanding of the whole
thing.
We need to make people aware that we are not looking at
something like at a bottle, like I’m looking at the bottle and, you
know, after five minutes, I will have looked at it from any
perspective possible and I will have understood it entirely. No,
it’s the opposite.
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We are on this tiny little planet. We’re looking outwards. That
means that anything’s possible in the universe, so I think that’s
the paradigm thing that we have to prepare, but how do we do
that?
I think the strategy is probably not in telling everything we know
and giving out the information like that. I think it’s much more
basic than that. It’s like... Well, yeah, let’s [unclear] evidence,
first of all.
And then I think it’s also about showing relationship between the
UFO cover-up and certain other things that are going on in the
world. I think that’s also important.
When we talk about the understanding of the greater reality that
these visitors live in, it’s also important to know that we wait for
the paradigm shift, but there are also people in quantum physics
who’ve been waiting for paradigm shifts for almost one hundred
years now, [laughs] you know?
So, maybe, the third thing is cooperation with certain other
groups; anyway, I think the nuts-and-bolts thing is the most
important.
B’OL: And I just want to return for a moment to the question of
how much time do we have?
I happen to feel that the ecological condition of the Earth – just
giving my research – is so grave that we’re going to have to
create the foundation of cooperation in the very near future. To
be able to come up with new paradigms of Disclosure that will
allow us to develop the new paradigm; to develop the energy
sources we need to tide us over; to be able to directly confront
alternative agendas and be open about it, at least with those who
are in control now.
And, in terms of the release of the information, that it would be
based more on just reasonable – ah, how should I say it? – a
reasonable, but chaotic transition period.
BR: [laughs] That’s great!
KC: Well, I sort of want to say that, in answer to what Bob Dean
is talking about, Disclosure is happening. It has been happening.
We’re part of it – Camelot; Paola, one of the early pioneers in
this area; Alfred Webre, Exopolitics; you know, Michael Salla,
etc. – it’s already been done, you know, if you will, the work has
been done.
This is the funny thing about all this. Obama’s announcement is
actually coming at the end – I’m just positing here for your
consideration, from my point of view – the end of the process
rather than the beginning.
It’s already out there. Spielberg did it for you. We did it. It’s been
done. The fact is, what we’re really talking about, is something
coming at the tail end for the people who have not gotten clued in
up to now.
Now, I’m well aware, it’s the majority of the populations out
there, quite possibly, but I actually have a sort of optimistic view
159
of the level of intelligence out there, and the fact that we are all
ETs anyway.
So you have to keep in mind that we came here – these bodies are
temporary, okay? It’s a much bigger reality, and even the most
silly, dumb person out there has consciousness of having been
able to go other places -- in their dreams, if nowhere else.
So the consciousness is actually out there. It’s like, it’s ready; it’s
primed. And it’s been primed in part by the controllers, if you
will, as well as us – okay? – who have picked up the ball and run
with it; and we, hopefully, have run with it farther and faster than
they wanted us to.
BR: Maybe it sounds as if the ground … perfect [overtalk], I
mean, is this perfect timing now?
KC: Well, listen to what Alfred Webre’s talking about, and the
sun cycle 24, and actually what we’re moving into, which is the
period between now and 2017.
BR: The Matrix of Time Acceleration... how about that?
KC: We’re talking about a consciousness change that’s making
all of this possible and accelerating it all very quickly, so that
change is not going to happen in the same way it’s happened in
the past. It can’t.
Brian O’Leary, you’re right. So where do we go from here? How
do we get it out there even further?
And if the government... the government is coming at the tail-
end, because the government is not in control; Obama is not in
control. We all know that. He’s the front guy. Okay?
They’ve got technology, according to our whistleblowers, that is
quite likely 10,000 years in advance of anything we are dealing
with right here and now in this reality. We’ve been held back for
a very long time on this planet.
It’s time that we actually take this baton in our hands, and say:
Okay. You want to run with this, Obama? We’re going to give
you a run for your money.
And, actually, that’s what this is all about, okay? We’re going to
release this video. It’s going out there and we’re going to say:
You know what? We already know.
We don’t need Obama sitting on a pedestal to tell us that
Disclosure is now. Disclosure is. It has been, and we are clued in.
Now, if the rest of the people out there aren’t clued in, we’re
going to continue to do our jobs. We’re going to wake up the
planet. Obama is just one individual and he’s only representing a
very fake part of the government anyway.
So let’s say Disclosure is Us, in a certain sense.
PH: Very briefly, can I remind you of one scene in Close
Encounters? And this is very brief.
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All the witnesses that had seen the lights came to a press
conference, something like this, and they all said: I saw this light,
and everybody in the media believed them. They were, you
know, they were talking about their experiences.
Then, out of the blue, this man stands up in the back and says:
And yeah, I saw Bigfoot the other day. Right back – I saw Bigfoot
– and Bigfoot exists, so let’s not even go there. I closed down the
whole entire truth-saying, because Spielberg was trying to say
that people cannot digest too much, too fast.
BD: Speaking of digestion, do you believe – and I’ll throw this
out to the panel – do any of you believe that the American public,
en masse, can deal with the reality of having been lied to and
cheated for the last 65 years, if they were to learn that we have a
separate space program?
KC: Didn’t you learn it? Didn’t you deal with it?
BD: Yeah, and my whole damn paradigm collapsed around me!
That’s why I’m sitting here angry today!
You know, I have guns in my home [Kerry laughs] and I’m
almost to the point of grabbing my American flag, putting on my
old uniform, and going into the damn streets and causing a riot,
because of the fact that I have learned how many lies have been
told for the last 65 years.
Now, take Joe Blow, Joe Six-pack out there in Kansas, and he
finds out that he’s been conned for so damn long...
PH: [laughing] It’s true.
BD: ...by a bunch of stinking politicians in Washington. And he’s
going to find out that he’s got a separate space program? That
NASA is a joke? And we are on Mars and we can step through a
portal in S4 and end up in Pine Gap?
These are realities and facts, and it took me a hell of a long time
to digest this and not lose it, you know? Because I’m a typical
Joe Blow.
I was trained to be an infantryman. I’ve been a grunt. I’ve been in
two wars. I was this close to going out there and beating the hell
out of some of those government authorities.
Do you think that the average American is going to be able to
handle it?
KC: They just found out that the government has been lying to
them and stealing their money right, left, and center. They’re still
not in the streets.
BD: They are suspicious and they have feelings that maybe
they’ve been conned. But the con is so big...
KC: Absolutely.
PH: Yes.
160
BD: ...that when the average guy out there in the street in Kansas
City or Sacramento or wherever, when this really hits him, the
impact is going to be devastating.
BR: There’s a possibility here that they might ameliorate their
own problem of Disclosure by giving us some other problems, as
well to take our minds off this. This is beyond the scope of this
conference, but if they crash the dollar...
KC: No, actually, let’s look at this. Why now? Think about this.
Let’s have some... step up to the plate here, Michael. What do
you think? Why now?
MS: I think that a big factor that’s driving this is that there is a
major dispute between the controllers.
On the one hand, you’ve got those that are tied up with the
corporations -- Majestic, who have trans-nationalized this whole
ET phenomenon; reverse-engineering going to corporations, and
enormous profits beings made, deals being made, ETs being
involved in these deals.
And, on the other hand, you have a kind of more constitutional
group -- which is lead by the U.S. Navy -- that has traditionally
been more tidy with representing the national interests.
The Navy, as I understand it, is very upset with the way the
whole management system has been trans-nationalized, has been
taken out of the hands of constitutional government in the U.S.,
and that the Navy is fighting back.
And I think it’s very important to point out the role of the Navy
in the Obama administration. His Director of National
Intelligence, Dennis Blair, is an ex-four-star Admiral. His
National Security Advisor, Jim Jones, is a four-star Marine and
the Marines are traditionally Navy; they’re a kind of sub-service
of the Navy.
And now you’ve had recently the appointment of a NASA
administrator who is an ex-Marine, a General, again, in the
Marines.
What you have here is, in the background, a process by which
these... and all of these people that I’ve named have been briefed
fully on the UFO issue. They know about the black projects. And
I think they are the ones that are preparing the groundwork for
this to be moved forward.
I know that the Navy has been also involved in other things, such
as the 2008 disclosure of secret meetings at the UN concerning
UFOs; and, that a senior Navy UFO working group was involved
in that; and, I’ve recently been out to confirm that two of the
Vice-Admirals, three-star Admirals, that were involved in that
were -- there was a blowback for that -- and they were basically
forced into retirement; and, I can’t name them at this point.
But there’s been a struggle. The Navy took the initiative,
disclosing these UN meetings; there was blowback; two three-
star Admirals were sacked, but that was kind of 16 months ago,
so there’s been time for the Navy to reorganize.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Now you’ve got these Navy people surrounding Obama, so I
think we are going to see this moving forward and the Navy’s
going to be playing a big role in that.
BD: Do all of you remember the movie called Seven Days in
May?
MS: Sure.
BD: And you know what the gist of it was, that a bunch of
admirals and generals were going to take over the country?
KC: Mm-hm.
BD: Let me tell you something – and I have this from first-hand
sources – there is a whole passel of Generals and Admirals that
are so pissed off about this cover-up and the lies that are being
told that they’re this close to...
I don’t know whether they want to take over the country, but I
think they damn well want the truth to come out.
KC: Yeah. I think we can see some of the resignations that have
been happening as a result of that.
BD: These guys are honorable men. They give their lives to their
country and they’re not going to put up with this crap any more.
KC: I mean, we’re talking about the United States and this is a
worldwide situation. What’s interesting is that Henry Deacon is
in the audience and he is nodding yes to what you’ve just said.
And in fact, Camelot is alive and operational – and we have been
told this by a number of people on the inside – because, we are
protected by just such people, which we call White Hats. It’s just
a terminology.
BD: The reason I’m alive is because of some of those people.
KC: There you go.
Part 2 of 2
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): So, certainly, the White Hats have
been behind the scenes working to make this Disclosure even
possible. In a sense, our Pete Peterson is a White Hat. His
background is ten years as a Marine. Okay?
You wanted to say something, Rob?
ROBERT FLEISCHER (RF): Yes, and then I will give it over to
Dr. O’Leary. I just wanted to say... I mean, I’m the only German
guy here. You’re mostly Americans.
[comments, crosstalk, responses, laughter]
PAOLA HARRIS (PH): British.
NICK POPE (NP): British.
161
RF: Yes, British. I’m the only German guy. I didn’t say I’m the
only non... and Australian, of course, and British as well. But this
is like the Anglo – how do you say? – the Anglophobic world.
I think that there is a real chance for Disclosure when the Anglo-
Saxon banking system goes down. And I think that there is a
good chance that this can happen quite fast. I mean, all of the sort
of debt of the United States is actually in the hands of the
Chinese. And you have emerging states, like, especially, the
Chinese, the... ah... you have India, you have Russia and you
have Brazil.
So, all of these countries, they deal with the UFO issue in a much
more open way than the Americans do, for obvious reasons. I
mean, like, in Brazil, they have open UFO files with UFO
encounters in the jungle, which is amazing.
In India, they have the flying vimanas and it’s part of their
culture, actually, the flying gods that came from heaven and
helped to create human culture. So, for them, it’s not such a big
issue that there’re extraterrestrials.
And, just recently, I talked to a Chinese master of a spiritual...
ah... a spiritual thing. I don’t know how to describe it now in
English. Anyway, she told me that she knows that extraterrestrial
contact is actually something considered official in China, that
there are university professors openly dealing with the content of
what the contactees are being told by them, and how it all relates
to quantum physics and stuff.
I think that this is actually a very interesting thing, and that this
might emerge when we live not in a mono-polar world, but in a
multi-polar world, which I hope will happen soon.
Excuse me for that. [laughs] I don’t want to offend you
Americans, but…
KC: Absolutely.
RF: …you know, in my sense, I think that’s the best thing we can
do, to have a multi-polar world. And, then, I think Disclosure will
be much more likely than what we have right now.
[to Brian O’Leary] Now, please...
BRIAN O’LEARY (BO’L): Yeah. I was just going to return to
this issue of anger, because I think that’s the largest obstacle to
Disclosure, just in general, is how are people reacting, or going to
react, to Disclosure...
BOB DEAN (BD): ...having been conned for so many years...
BO’L: …having been conned for so many years. And, to my way
of thinking, this is the kind of... anger management might be the
right kind of approach for this, especially in America.
And I think you’re right, the multi-polar world, I think, if
America could recognize that a little bit more and kind of loosen
up a little bit, that, maybe, there is a way of slipping through this
period, which is...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Obviously heads are going to roll. There are going to be a lot of
vindictiveness and anger; and, somehow, that needs to be
managed in a way that’s for everybody’s benefit. And that’s the
big issue.
BD: You live out of the country at the moment.
BO’L: Yes.
BD: So, you may have lost touch with a few things. And I’m not
saying this in a negative sense.
I live in Arizona, and there is a run on ammunition. People are
buying guns and ammunition in the Southwest to such a level that
the sporting goods stores and the gun stores cannot keep a stock
on hand, because the minute they get a shipment, the shelves are
cleaned out!
Now, this is the group of people that I happen to know pretty
well, because I came from that group. They are stockpiling guns;
they’re stockpiling ammunition; and, when the word comes out
how they’ve been conned and lied to for so long, you’re going to
have blood in the streets.
And, I think, the Obama crowd, being sharp, know this. I don’t
believe that Obama is going to let this... he doesn’t want this on
his plate right now, because he’s got so damn many other things
to deal with.
BILL RYAN (BR): Steve, what do you think about…?
BD: When you start thinking about how many people out there
throughout the country are buying guns and stockpiling
ammunition, that is an indication that there is a level of
frustration and anger out there in the American masses that the
politicians in Washington may not even be aware of.
BR: Stephen talks to politicians all the time -- don’t you,
Stephen?
STEPHEN BASSETT (SB): Not exactly. But, one of my
concerns here is we’re about to go on the radio in a couple of
minutes.
BR: Yep. We’ll just continue as...
SB: But, I mean, there’s... that audience is coming in…
BR: Right.
KC: That’s right.
SB: ...so they don’t know what’s going on. So, I’m going to make
a very quick comment, because there’re a lot of things I’d like to
comment on, but there’s no antecedent for the audience. I’ll have
to kind of re-up it, but, let me just say this. This is very short and
sums up a lot of things.
I believe that the principle reason that Americans are
experiencing so much angst and frustration, cynicism and
162
paranoia, the principle reason that they are buying guns and/or
expressing themselves in ways which are concerning, is not
because they’ve been told terrible truths, but because they’ve
been lied to extensively for the last, well, going back to the
Vietnam War, primarily, the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution...
BD: Robbed! Robbed, for God’s sake! SB: ...and stolen blind. So,
I sort of view it the other way. If you want people to stop being
paranoiac and stop being distrustful of the government and stop
arming themselves, you need to start telling the truth. If you start
telling the truth and things’ll get better.
Acknowledging the ET presence is a big, big one and that’ll get
the ball rolling. Hopefully, it will lead to a – how would you say?
– a reformist era, where the truth becomes Standard Operating
Procedure.
Holding back, waiting [and] somehow keeping the secret longer?
I don’t think it’s going to make it any better; it’s only going to get
worse.
And the last thing I’ll say is this: ETs aren’t just here for the
Americans. They didn’t come all this way because This America
thing, we got to tell them the truth. Right? They’re here engaging
the entire planet. We [Americans] represent five percent of the
world’s population.
It comes down to this: It doesn’t really matter whether the
Americans are ready or not, or the Bangladeshis, or the French,
or the Russians. They’re going to deal with it, whether they like it
or not, because it’s going to happen, whether they like it or not.
It’s unavoidable and inevitable.
BD: Make a point, Stephen, that the ETs are not visitors, for
God’s sake.
SB: Well, again, I’m...
BD: They’re not just visiting here. They’ve been here from the
beginning of our history.
SB: But that distinction doesn’t affect my political point.
BD: Well, it ought to!
SB: Why? I’m talking about extraterrestrials in the sense of non-
human beings, as we understand them, with technology beyond
what we have.
Whether they’re from the Inner Earth, from another dimension,
from the past, from other star systems – Occam’s razor would say
from other star systems – wherever they’re from, right? It is a
major event and a significant thing for the world’s population to
know this, and that crossing point, when that self-
acknowledgement occurs, is a big deal.
Now, the particulars: We know there’s a huge sub-story here. We
know that behind this is a massive story. It’s huge and broad, and
everybody is trying to understand it. Everybody knows a little
about it, a little here, and so forth. Nobody knows the full story;
nobody’s got it all right. They know a little piece.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The dilemma is that the political process, or the social transition,
is not about figuring the whole thing out and bringing it out to the
public and saying: Here. We can’t do that.
Disclosure is nothing more than the first step towards that
process. Because, once the governments formally acknowledge
this reality and the schools can teach it, and the philanthropists
can fund it, and the media can cover it, and the intellectuals can
discuss it -- then we can start sorting the whole damn thing out
and say: This is nonsense; that’s not true; this person’s a fraud;
that person’s the real deal; that story’s good; that story’s bad.
And, actually, create a real history of this issue as best we can.
But, until Disclosure takes place, that’s not going to happen.
We’re going to continue to churn, and churn, and churn.
And remember that this arena, this hall of smoke and mirrors
we’re in, we didn’t build it -- the government built it. The
government put those mirrors up; put the smoke in the hall. They
have deliberately made it very difficult, if not impossible, to have
a clear understanding. That was a government policy.
We have to end that policy, and Disclosure is the end of that
policy. And that’s Disclosure with a capital D; a formal
acknowledgement of the ET presence. That’s it, nothing more.
Disclosure with a small d has been going on for a long time, no
question, an unfolding of information, citizen process,
misinformation; all mixed in. That’s small d. All right? That’s
been happening, absolutely, no question.
BUT in spite of all that disclosure with a small d, do the
universities teach it? Does the press properly cover it? Does the
government fund it? Do we have, you know, think tanks devoted
to it? No, we don’t.
What government does -- matters. What Obama and the
administration does -- matters; and, so they have to act. You can’t
ignore government, right?
You know, people want peace and they say: Well, I want peace,
so the government doesn’t matter... until the government comes
and takes your son or your daughter and sends them off to war.
What government does -- matters; so, we have to engage it, and
we have to deal with the process, using the institutions we have,
to get the proper result.
BD: You all are aware of the Pandora’s Box story, the legend
going back to ancient Greece. Pandora’s Box had all the Furies in
Hell of the entire world, locked and sealed. You open Pandora’s
Box just a little tiny bit and all Hell breaks loose, because you
can’t release just a little tiny bit.
If you release just one little tiny bit, you’ve got a million
questions and a million pissed off people wanting to know the
rest of it. And I don’t believe that our government, at this
moment, is in any position to even begin to tell them the rest of
the story.
Because do you know about the impact on theology? You know
what the Brookings Report said. You try to tell the people out
163
there that Jesus of Nazareth was one of Them [points up] – and
the evidence we’ve all had is: Yes, he was. Now, how do you tell
that to fundamentalists?
RF: Excuse me...
BD: Look at the Muslim world right now.
RF: The Brookings Report, that was in 1961 or something.
BD: ’61. Yes.
RF: I mean, now we have 2009.
BD: Robert, it’s still national…
RF: [unclear] ...as a kind of representative of the younger
generation...
BD: ...policy, sadly enough.
RF: Okay, okay, okay. Maybe, you know, in many generations –
it’s a problem for many generations, obviously. But I have to tell
you. I belong to a younger generation. I know many people my
age and younger. For them it’s not so unimaginable. It’s not so...
When you say: You know, the American government, or certain
people in the military-industrial complex, covered that up.
They say: All right. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. You know,
it’s not a big deal for them. [laughs]
[everyone talks at once]
KC: Okay. Let me... Hello, hello, hello! Let me interrupt. We’re
going on the air. Bill, are you announcing? Are we on the air?
We should be on the air at the moment, according to the time.
[Kerry and Bill discuss computer setup for radio broadcast]
KC: Go ahead, you guys. Let’s continue this. The younger
generation... you want to say something, Brian?
BO’L: Yes. What I wanted to say is that it seems like that the
problem... you know, we obviously have a tiger by the tail here,
[Bob Dean laughs] and that we all recognize that anger is an
initial reaction once Disclosure really unfolds with a capital D.
So, if we can recognize this, and our so-called adversaries, let’s
say the keepers of the secrets, can sit down at a table and
negotiate the release of the information where, in their
perception, it wouldn’t hurt them that much – just maybe that’s
the opening.
It seems like that’s the nub of the issue is that the cover-up and
the encrustation of cover-ups going on for the last 65 years has
created this Pandora’s Box which, if opened, could lead to a
process of truth and reconciliation – which would, just perhaps,
launch us into the new paradigm, which is so badly needed
anyway, in order to save our precious planet.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So that’s the way I’d like to see it, is to provide the basis for
some sort of negotiation, or process of truth and reconciliation, to
be able to create certain levels of amnesty and...
BD: You want us to forgive the sinners, do you? [laughs]
BO’L: Well, eventually, yes.
PAOLA HARRIS (PH): It’s going to happen.
[vigorous crosstalk]
SB: We do it all the time.
VOICE: Yes, I’m sorry.
KC: The filmmakers have something…
VOICE: Yeah, I just have one thing that I want to put out there,
because we’re talking about two scenarios at a time, because the
real thing -- what’s going on, the cover-up? I’m afraid, certain of
the third phenomena, it’s the counterfeit. I mean, the black
operations, the manifestations, the false Second Coming, the
manufacture...
KC: Project Blue Beam. We’re getting to that, actually, yes.
VOICE: [continues speaking but is inaudible]
KC: Okay. The filmmakers would like to us to address that. Yes.
That’s important. Okay. We’re going there. Actually, just so you
guys know...
BD: False...
KC: Yeah, one of the... yeah. What we’re talking about here is
when I said: Why now? Part of the question is: Why now in this
juncture? And what is it, as part of the possible agenda, what
these people have in mind?
Because they don’t do things without sort of a self-serving angle
involved, and it may be that they’re preparing the groundwork for
what will be a false alien invasion scenario.
NP: I’ll speak to this, because I’ve actually been accused of
playing a part in this.
KC: Oh great. Go ahead.
NP: If you Google the phrase false-flag alien invasion, you’ll
obviously, as you’re well aware, find a lot of material -- quite a
lot of it increasingly being pegged on 2012, which has been
linked in. Specifically, in some instances, pegged on the Olympic
Games to be held in London, and possibly some event
supposedly taking place at maybe the closing ceremony.
Now, my involvement with this is that, in amongst my freelance
journalism work, I’ve done, I guess, about two or three things,
which kind of went on the radar with certain people, if you’ll
excuse the pun.
164
The first was I wrote an op-ed in the New York Times, which
went out under the title Unidentified Flying Threats. That went
out, I think, on July 29th last year [2008]. A very interesting thing
for the conspiracy theorists was right underneath – if you’re one
of these people who looks for juxtaposition of headlines – was an
unrelated (or was it?) article entitled Can Obama Handle the
Offense? So a lot of people read something into that.
I also do a lot of work with The Sun; Britain’s best-selling
national daily newspaper. I worked on a story, which went out
under the headline Shoot Down the UFO. That, then, got picked
up by Fox News and, as some of you may have seen, I was
interviewed by Bill Hemmer on that show two or three months
back.
So, I’m sort of sounding a little bit defensive here, because, when
you mention things like Blue Beam and False-Flag Alien
Invasion, because of those media things I’ve done, I’ve actually
been put in the frame as one of the guilty parties, and I’d like to
absolutely assure everyone that I’m not.
BD: You’re innocent?
NP: Yeah. I’m innocent. Can I get back to a question, which you
asked about half an hour ago, which I didn’t get to answer, and
I’m going to give you an answer.
KC: Sure, absolutely.
NP: You mentioned Pete Peterson, who I don’t know and haven’t
met. No reason to doubt his bona fides, or anything. But my
personal answer to the question you asked of Paola: Will this
happen? Is No.
I say that for a boring statistical reason, really, but one that can be
verified.
Out of all the predictions of either (A) some sort of landing or
undeniable alien intervention, or (B) all the predictions of
Disclosure... out of all the ones that have been made, a grand total
of zero have actually come to pass.
So just from a boring statistical point of view, I’m reasonably
confident that the deadline... I think you were saying November,
this year?
KC: Well, actually we were saying end of the year.
NP: It, I think, will come and go without incident.
Can I pick up on point also that I think Bob made? It’s something
that’s been running through a lot of... or all of us seem to leave
out – lack of trust in government. I’ll just throw this out in a
wider point of view.
Something Robert said, that people of his generation, if this was
unpacked to them that they’d been lied to would just say: Yeah.
So what? We thought that was probably true these things were
going on. We never did trust the government.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
I’m from the UK. Trust in government in the UK at the moment,
on just about every issue, is at an all-time low. I don’t know how
many of the British news stories have made the media, but our
members of parliament have been making bogus claims for
expenses and the most outrageous things that we, the taxpayers,
have been paying for. Some of them have resigned. Most have
not.
Just today it was announced on the news, possibly 100,000 cases
of swine flu just in the last week, according to some statistical
analyses.
BD: In the UK?
NP: In the UK alone. Now, that’s at the high end of the estimate
scale, and estimates of deaths are about 100 from that, depending
on whose figures you listen to.
My point is, the other story that came out today was that the Help
Line, which has now gone live – this is the government Help
Line, arguably one of the most important issues affecting the
British people. The people who are manning the Help Lines are
not medically trained. Some of them were not even interviewed
for those jobs. And, guess what? It doesn’t matter anyway,
because the website’s down, because too many people are trying
to log on and get through.
So I think a lot of discussions... I know I’ve gone slightly off
topic; but, actually, you know, I probably haven’t, because I think
faith in government and institutions is at an all-time low. So if it
does transpire they’ve lied to us about this, yes, it’s a massive lie,
but people won’t be surprised.
AW: It can’t get any worse.
SB: The point of pride…
BD: Let me remind you of something. I know that in the UK they
don’t trust their politicians. We don’t trust our politicians. But
your politicians caused a scene in 1776 and look what happened.
Now, that could tell you what politicians screwing things up can
do!
NP: Yes, but [overtalk]
BD: …Revolution, in 1776. That spirit, Nick, let me really tell
you, and let me reassert this. That same damn spirit exists in the
American people today, and they are as capable in 2009 of doing
what they did in 1776. That’s what I’m concerned about.
KC: Yeah. I think that’s important. Absolutely. As a moderator, I
want to say here that there’s a youth and age part of this story.
Because the anger, I’m going to say, is in the people who’ve been
around a long time with the cover-up. The youth have not. Okay?
At least not in this body.
And I want to say that anger is not so much an issue over this
particular thing – the cover-up – as it is that in a certain sense the
youth will turn on a dime, often, will understand, and they’re
being sold movies out there that older people don’t even go to.
165
I go to them, so I know they’re out there. I know they’ve been
taught a lot of information, secret information, in the guise of
what looks like a childish story.
So, I have to say that, in some ways, it’s true what you’re saying,
Rob. It’s not going to blow them away, if some President gets up
there and says: Hello, ET’s real. Of course they’re real! That’s
going to be the attitude. I know that would my attitude, especially
if I was that age, and I know that it’s going to be true of a lot of
kids.
But, there’s another side to this, and this is also valid, and it is
that there are Americans preparing, as we speak, for the
dissolution of what is, in essence, the American government.
Okay?
That the cracks... the ship is leaking and has been leaking for a
very long time; that patriots and people that have come from the
military are fed up; that there’s a huge contingence of that going
on.
And that this Disclosure issue of truths in general – that they’ve
been lying on the money, the financial end of things; the society,
the way they’ve been brought up, the things they’re supposed to
do with their lives...
The paradigm, the old paradigm, is crumbling. And, within the
crumbling and the dissolution, the controllers know damn well
[that] if you just take one more thing and tip the straw off the
camel’s back – it’s going to be the Disclosure issue in terms of
ETs.
There will be chaos. They’re causing chaos. In fact, that’s what
they want, I would suggest, and you can all address this, if you
will. But they’re not looking for things to go smoothly right now.
Actually, they want chaos because they want to eliminate a large
number of the population, and the viruses, and the chemtrails,
and what’s going on, is contributing to that.
[to the audience] Go ahead...
[unclear comment from off stage]
BD: Our Director of Homeland Security recently went public on
national media and expressed her view that the returning veterans
from Iraq and Afghanistan are not to be trusted, because they
know how to use guns. And they’re coming back, and they look
around, and they’re pissed off.
Now this woman used to be the Governor of Arizona. She’s now
Director of the Department of Homeland Security. She went on
national publication and said: These guys are dangerous, you
know? They know how to use guns and they’re coming back and
they’re angry.
Well, she touched the tip of the iceberg, let me tell you. Who the
hell do you think are out there buying the guns and ammunition?
A lot of them are the guys coming back from Iraq and
Afghanistan.
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KC: Well, I have to say that... well, I shouldn’t name names, but
some of our whistleblowers have actually said the exact same
thing.
BD: Yeah. Well...
KC: And they are, themselves, preparing. Let’s put it that way.
BD: I know that.
BO’L: And they’re young people.
BD: Well, to me, anyone under 50 is young, you know?
[laughter]
KC: But most of our whistleblowers are not young. They’re
actually older than the age 50.
SB: Are we on radio yet, by any chance?
KC: [to Bill] What’s going on?
[Bill and Kerry converse re: broadcast situation; Bill confirms the
panel is streaming live audio.]
KC: Okay. So let’s continue with this.
SB: I would like to comment here, because there’re a lot of things
being said that I don’t agree with and I think I need to make a
point, lest I be accused of agreeing.
I am reminded of Jefferson’s quote, that, on occasion, the Tree of
Liberty needs to be fertilized with the blood of revolution. But,
that said, I don’t believe there’s going to be a revolution. I don’t
believe there’s going to be violence in the wake of Disclosure at
all. I don’t think there’s going to be a substantial panic. I don’t
think anything’s going to happen in that regard.
As I’ve said, I believe that Disclosure will be two things in one. It
will be the most profound event in human history, and it will be
the most anti-climactic event in human history – thanks to 60-
some years of information upon information, and media, and
everything else. I mean, we have saturated the world with this
issue. And the ETs, of course, have helped by constantly coming
and going.
In the world today, the most-known acronym is USA. The second
most-known acronym in the world today, amongst everybody, all
six billion: UFO. Everywhere. And then, the average population
of Iran, thirty-three. [Ed note: meaning average age]
So, look, there’s going to be some angry people, and there’s
going to be some people that have grudges, and there are issues
to address. But, the first thing that will happen with the
acknowledgement of the ET presence is the world will want to
know: What, Why, Where, and When. Tell me more. Tell me
more.
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The issues and the grievances will be shoved completely aside.
And for the next weeks, months, or whatever, there’ll be some
sort of information exchange.
The government is not stupid. They’re not going to come out
initially with the stuff that’s going to make them look awful and
flammable.
BD: Some of them are. I’ve met them, dammit.
SB: Other governments may choose to...
BD: Some of them are stupid, because I’ve met them. Nick will
tell you, some of their politicians are stupid.
SB: Well hopefully they won’t do that. I would think that they
will come out with those things which are relatively positive and
reinforcing, and over time, we will get into some of the wilder
and crazier stuff.
They’ve had 60 years to plan this. It’s not going to be a random
event, unless the ETs force it.
And I say this, because, look -- I respect all of my colleagues’
opinions, believe me. I respect Bob tremendously. But, feeling as
I do, I don’t want to be going to the public on the air, and on
radio and television, and telling millions of people there’re going
to be blood in the streets, there’s going to be a revolution.
PH: No, I don’t want to do that to people either.
SB: If I thought that, by God, I’d say it. But, I think we have to
circumspect here, because we are dealing with a profound thing.
PH: I agree with Steve.
SB: There’re a lot of reasons for people being angry with
government right now. Without any ETs, you still have lots of
problems, and we’re going to still have those problems the day
after Disclosure. But, ultimately, when the government starts
telling the truth, things are likely to get better.
And the last thing I’ll say is this: When the Vietnam War ended,
one of the first questions that, I think, was posed to the Vietnam
War activists was: All of your anti-war stuff all of these years --
can you tell us that you shortened the Vietnam War by a single
day?
And the answer is: It wasn’t really clear. May not. Probably
didn’t.
And we’re going to be asked the same question: You rattled our
cages for all of these years. Did you bring Disclosure one day
sooner than the government would have done it anyway?
And the answer is: I don’t know; very likely not.
But it doesn’t matter, because all of this has raised the public
awareness and brought these issues out and spread them around
the globe, on the Net and every way, so hundreds of millions of
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people are getting a sense, an understanding, an awareness. So,
when it does happen, they’re going to be a little more ready.
And, if some fool in some government somewhere says: Let’s
take advantage of this big deal. Let’s concoct something. I think
if we get an alien war thing out there, we’re going to be able to
spend trillions of dollars, and I’ve got companies we can fund…
I think the Internet, and you, and your colleagues are going to
shred it in about 24 hours, break it out in the open, and these
people will already be on their way to jail.
We are raising public awareness to get Disclosure. When it’ll
happen? Hopefully soon. But, it’s not simply about Disclosure;
it’s about understanding.
KC: Okay...
BD: We don’t have enough jail room to handle all of the
government people, like the guys in the House and the Senate,
who should go to jail.
SB: We’ll put ’em in the FEMA camps. [laughter]
KC: All right. This is good energy! Let’s let Alfred have his say
here.
AW: I’d like to jump in here on a couple of points to make; first
of all, to make the point of – and raise the awareness – that we’re
talking about a planetary issue and not an issue of the U.S.
And Steve mentioned Iran. Well, it just so happened; I want to
make an announcement that I was contacted by Iranian National
Television, and they will be calling in tomorrow at 5 pm – I’ll
take it on my cell phone – to interview me on the subject of the
extraterrestrial presence on the Moon.
So, this is breaking through all of the national stereotypes that we
have.
If we look at the era that we’re in, it’s an era of Galactic
consciousness, and that is moving beyond being Spaniards, or
being Americans, or Canadians, and moving beyond even being
citizens of planet Earth -- to being citizens of an organized and
populated Galaxy. That’s where the leading edge of Exopolitics
is, really.
Now, jumping to the second point, this thing about the
dissolution of the US -- I can remember being a futurist at the
Center for the Study of Social Policy at Stanford Research
Institute in 1977, the same year that we were doing the Carter
White House extraterrestrial-proposed study.
It was common parlance –- in the halls –- of the plan to break up
the US into five or six contiguous regions; Washington and
Oregon was Ecotopia, you know? [laughs] And there were
various names for the other regions.
So, I think that those of us who can appreciate that there are
trans-national forces running some of the shadow government
elements of the US, the whole plan for the dissolution of the US
167
now is really a trial balloon that has been in the planning, in the
think-tanks, for over 40 years: Oh yeah, let’s dissolve the US and,
you know, we do a Soviet Union on it, and then we go on to
some other market.
I think I’d like to really appeal to the patriotism of Robert Dean
here and to what Steven said that, on some esoteric levels, the
United States is supposed to be an expression of the
Enlightenment; kind of an inheritor of the Enlightenment of the
days when Egypt and Mars were one civilization – we have some
proof of that now from the Mars Rover photographs.
So, I would tend to resist identifying with disintegrating the US
now, because I think it’s part of a manipulation.
Finally, I’d like to put my vote – I could be wrong – more on the
2002 Roper Report, rather than on the Brookings Report. That
means that, when queried, 85 percent of people were completely
congruent, were totally cool, with the specific question: If the
government were to announce an extraterrestrial presence, how
would you react?
And eighty-five percent said: It wouldn’t bother me a bit.
I think that the opposite could be true, and that is that there would
be celebrations. You have even activists in our camp who talk
about having rock extraterrestrial concerts to welcome in this age.
It’s kind of a falling of the Berlin Wall, and it’s more of a birth,
rather than a death of the old system.
There’s always been kind of a bifurcation in Exopolitics, which, I
think, Michael and Paola and I were talking about today. That is,
do we focus on the short Grays and the Reptilians and their
reported plans for extermination of two-thirds of the human race
with the H1N1 virus, or some other virus? For which there is
some possible evidence to start thinking that way. You know,
there’s been research informally that has surfaced here that there
may be negative extraterrestrial influence behind the chemtrails
phenomenon, which I think has been mentioned in some contexts
as possibly carrying a precursor of the H1N1 virus. –
Or, do we concentrate on the positive leading edge of the
evidence that there’s a strategic alliance of ethical upper-
dimensional extraterrestrials -- the White Hats -- I think, that
people were talking about?
I could easily see a scenario, if we have the government that has
the courage to do it – and I don’t know whether the Obama
administration that hasn’t been able to close Guantanamo, which
is a blatant war crime – could do that.
But they could spin it to say: Look, for national security reasons,
we have maintained diplomatic relations, and we’ve had
strategic alliances with the following... and, for national security
reasons, we’ve had to withhold that from you for 60 years, for the
following reasons.
And there could be plausible reasons there, including military
attacks by the Grays.
I think that a population would be more in relief and celebration,
rather than reacting violently and with despair.
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SB: Alfred, when the University of Exopolitics is finally
founded, we’re only going to let you teach the graduate courses.
[laughter]
BO’L: Yeah, I see what’s going on right now is this two-edged
sword. There is, on the one hand, the perception that anger could
be released. That would, obviously, be a perception shared by
those keeping the secrets; then, on the other hand, a time of great
celebration for the new paradigm. I see it as a concomitant
process that both of the above will be happening and there will be
a period of chaos. It’s a time of crisis and opportunity, and a
group like this can mediate those discussions and bring it out into
the open.
NP: I think Steve’s right with his When, What, Why kind of point.
You know, in my experience of the media, if an announcement
was made, almost the very first thing is going to be: What do they
look like? Can we see a picture? Where do they come from?
What’s their home look like?
We’re not going to get into these deeper issues before we’ve
done the very basic tabloid stuff.
PH: I agree with Steve, too. I want to go on record as saying I
will not buy into the anger, everybody-shooting-each-other
ridiculous scenario. [laughs] I think that people are intelligent,
and I think there is a third thing might happen: Some people
maybe don’t care.
Because, I have spoken to a group of people that just don’t give a
darn, whether it’s announced, it’s not announced. It’s not going
to affect their reality. So, it’s not just rejoicing or let’s run in the
street and kill people and be angry.
There’s a whole level of people that have told me: Frankly,
Paola, it doesn’t affect me at all. And we have to remember those
people.
NP: Well, Paola, this probably isn’t the right thing to say to you,
but maybe this is a good time to quote John Alexander.
PH: Oh, yes. I know what you’re going to say now. [laughs] Yes.
NP: Didn’t he say, you know, didn’t he end a presentation with
all this talking about Disclosure and say: Well, Joe Blow, Joe Six-
pack, whatever, his question is: “Does any of this mean I don’t
have to go to work tomorrow?”
KC: Actually, that’s the point. It does. It quite possibly could
mean that. And that’s actually getting to the root of the matter.
What you are talking about is a revolution in a paradigm. It may
not mean blood in the streets, exactly, but it could quite possibly
mean a rebellion in consciousness that results in people becoming
co-creators of this world in a conscious way, such that they don’t
go to work tomorrow, because they realize that one of the things
that comes out of UFOs is free energy.
It opens up that Pandora’s Box such that the possibilities...
because the ETs come from a very advanced scientific future, and
that much is obvious. They’re visiting us, they’re dealing with
168
our government, the government’s been dealing with them. This
is the other side of that story, is: What does it mean for us?
And certainly, in the eyes of the Powers That Be, will Disclosure
happen? Because, what it means is that it’s a relinquishing of
power on a certain level. If they are not in complete control of
this world, because they don’t have the highest technology, the
highest intelligence [and] they’re not the man on top anymore.
Okay? Then who’s on top? And that becomes the question.
So, maybe, Joe Six-pack doesn’t realize that right off, but maybe
he does. Maybe, on a subliminal level, he realizes the controllers
are not in control, that the game has changed, that it’s thrown
wide open, and that all things are suddenly possible, and that we
can rework this thing, and we can also take down the...
As John Lennon would say, that there are no countries anymore,
that there are no borders anymore; and that we are humans – all
of us; we are united -- all of us; that we are One People; and that
these aliens -- who look like us -- may be our brothers and sisters
and fathers and ancestors, whatever you want to say.
It changes the entire paradigm in every way. It’s like the cards...
where does the expansion end? And these are the possibilities.
So, what I would say is that let’s talk about...
Once you open the door of Disclosure, there is a sense in which
Pandora’s Box will open, and there is no limit to the questions
that can be asked. Not just the people -- like this in this room --
will be asking those questions, but that average people will be.
MS: I think that we need to kind of open or expand the
vocabulary, because we’re kind of assuming that there’s going to
be a transition from secrecy or denial to Disclosure. I think,
actually, we’re missing an intermediate step, which is Openness.
There’s going to be a transition from Denial to Openness; and,
after we’ve have Openness for a few years, then we’ll have
Disclosure.
At the secret UN meetings that I mentioned, that occurred in
February last year, one of the things that had been agreed upon
by the national delegates that were attending, was that, beginning
in 2009, they would begin a process of international openness on
these issues.
When you look at what’s been happening over this year, it’s like,
well, what we’re seeing is not so much Disclosure; what we’re
seeing is Openness. We’re seeing files being released. We’re
seeing the media tackling these issues in an objective way. Now,
I think, that is how you will prepare the groundwork for
Disclosure, maybe in 2011, or 2012.
So, I think we need to kind of accept that the people that are
moving forward are very rational. They’re not going to try to
panic people. They’re going to try to prepare people through a
very-well-thought-out process of releasing more and more stuff,
getting universities to deal with these issues in a systematic
way...
BR: There are a lot of researchers -- now turned to journalists --
being allowed to do this work.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
MS: Exactly. So, I think, we’re going to have this process of
Openness, maybe, for two years, three years, accelerating. And,
then, eventually, we’re going to have Disclosure.
What you’re saying, like at the end of this year, 2009, you know,
by just releasing this Congressional Research Report, that’s not
so much Disclosure, because they didn’t find the answers for
Carter. But what they did was, they prepared him for: this is what
might be going on.
So there’s an Openness process at work here, and I think that is
what we are now witnessing and are in the midst of.
SB: Well, if they think they can stretch this out for three more
years, my hat’s off to ’em -- but I’ll take the bet. Right? I mean,
what was that phrase? If you want to make God laugh, tell Her
your plans? Right?
SEVERAL VOICES: Right. Yeah, right.
SB: They’ve had 62 years to plan out something, right? So this
idea: Okay, now we’ll go through enlight… you know; nah, I
don’t think so. But, let me comment on something that Kerry
said, because I’m going to get into this a little bit on Sunday.
Without getting into the outcomes, predicting any outcomes, I do
believe – and I’m speaking from a more nuts and bolts sense – I
have this hunch that Disclosure media presence will trigger, very
possibly, the greatest era of reform in history; going back to the
Sumer, to the flood.
In other words, it’s going to create a kind of cascading effect in
which, because of the fact that the world’s attention will suddenly
be focused pretty much in the same direction, through billions of
eyes focusing in the same direction, then everything sort of is
tossed up in the air, everything goes on the table suddenly –
which happens once in a while...
That the reformist movements that are out there – and there’s
reformist movements everywhere, right? You just don’t hear
about them, but they’re out there struggling along, working out of
their basements – will suddenly be given life, and energy and
money. And you’re going to see, literally, a systemic, I think,
spectral, reform that will be staggering in its size and scope.
Now, will it lead us to wonderful things? Will it all work out?
Will it be like the French Revolution – you start off with a good
idea and, the next thing you know, you’re lopping heads? I don’t
know.
But, I know that the opportunity is there. And, for me, that’s one
of the reasons to keep going and do this. It’s not just: Oh, they’ll
tell us the ETs are here.
We have a world that has basically been shoving stuff under the
rug for a couple of centuries – putting things in the closet,
sticking them in the attic, not taking care of business, not dealing
with what has to be done – and that was going to catch up with
us.
I think this is the trigger that suddenly says: Okay, we’ve got to
clean out the basement; clean out the attic; we’ve got to cut the
lawn; we’ve got to take care of business; we’ve got to clean up
169
the secret empire; we’ve got to start filming the Bilderberg
meetings; we’ve got to toss the Skull and Bones idiots off the Yale
campus.
We’ve got to do a lot of things. We need monetary reform. We
need doctrinal reform in the Christian church, the Islamic faith.
We’ve got to take care of stuff, because a lot of stuff is stupid,
right? It’s ridiculous. But we’re locked up. After the last few
thousand years, we’re just completely all locked up and can’t
move.
And so, you go to the Congress for some simple thing and the
Congress is going: I can’t move. And you go to the Islamic faith
and say: Look, we need a little change here. We’re going to have
a world threat -- “We can’t act.” Catholic Church can’t change
its policy on birth control. We can’t get anything done.
All of a sudden – BOOM -- into this, comes the biggest event of
all time. So, what happens after that is up to us. I just look at my
job as trying to help people look and see and, maybe, be part of
the post-Disclosure world.
But we, hopefully, earned our right to be on stage; hopefully,
we’ve earned the right to be heard -- but not necessarily so.
The mainstream may come and say: Look, you guys have been
bugging us about this for 20 years. Yeah, you were right. Now go
away. We hate you. Right? [laughter] We’ve got PhDs from
Harvard and Yale and I’ve been working with the government for
40 years and I really know all about this stuff. You-all go away.
We may have to stand together hard, because the mainstream will
want us to go away. We’re going to have to fight for our post-
Disclosure opportunities and positions, which is why I hope that
the tensions and disagreements that exist -- particularly between
the Exopolitical field and the old guard UFOlogical field -- don’t
get worse.
NP: Is this thing worth addressing here?
SB: Oh yeah. Sure.
PH: It could be worth addressing, but could I add something to
that? I was told, by people in the Intelligence Community, when
they tried to hand the phone over to Paul Hellyer, ex-Minister of
Defence, because they were going to talk to him about keeping
quiet. You know Paul Hellyer, ex-Minister of Defence? [He] read
Corso’s book that this was a very serious situation we needed to
deal with.
We were in Hawaii and the phone was going right across me, and
they said to me: Paola, you people do not know what you’re
doing. We’ve got it handled.
SB: Who said this to Paul?
PH: The Intelligence Community. I don’t want to mention the
names, but they were people that I know that are working on that
side of the fence in the UFO question.
SB: Right.
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PH: They are very well-known people and their connection with
money, and so forth; and, when they tried to hand the phone to
Paul Hellyer and I would let the phone go by, I said he’s on his
honeymoon, you can’t talk to him – they said to me: Paola, you
people are amateurs. You do not know what you’re talking about.
We have it handled.
Now, the words: we have it handled. And my brain was going:
What do you have handled? [laughter] Who do you think you’re
dealing with?
SB: Yeah, they have it so well-handled that we have two fine
Trade Center buildings in New York just standing tall there. You
can go see them right now.
PH: And so he never got the phone call that time. He got it later,
because they wanted to make sure they told him to calm down
and stop speaking.
KC: Okay. But, I have a question here. I have a question that’s
going to blow this thing wide open.
BR: Uh-oh.
KC: Actually, it’s two-pronged, but… one: What if Disclosure is
the only thing that can happen prior to a real invasion scenario
that’s been going on, while we’re here on the planet, the whole
time?
SB: Then it would be a...
KC: What if...
SB: And it...
KC: What if the days are numbered for that scenario, that’s real –
I’m positing it as real. And, what if there is only, as our recent
witness is saying, there’s only about three years left on this planet
before -- if we continue at the rate we’re going -- there’s no, I
don’t know, oxygen; the whole thing is trashed?
Now, what if we’re actually living a timeline that doesn’t just go
out, stretching out there for all these different educational
processes to take place, but we’ve actually reached a kind of End
Game, in which humanity has no choice? That a choice has to be
made, and some people have decided they’re going to make that
choice for us?
What if?
SB: Well, Kerry, everybody has to die. I would rather die
knowing the truth of this world, than die with a head full of
government lies.
BR: That’s a good [overtalk].
KC: Okay. I’m saying Disclosure happens; Disclosure is
happening; it’s happening right here today -- but what I’m
suggesting is something that hasn’t been talked about, and is
never talked about, okay?
170
We have a false-flag alien invasion, on the one hand, that the
government... Because, I don’t know if people out there have
seen my video sighting that I had at Lake Geneva, you know, one
night, of this gigantic craft that was clearly, at least to me, being
driven by not only our guys, but maybe a couple Reptilians at the
helm, so to speak.
I mean, what you have to deal with is that we may be reaching...
according to the whistleblower that we started this whole
conversation with, positing that Obama’s coming forward with
this information. On top of it, that same guy, who is an insider
with what he says, is a higher clearance than presidents, okay?
His access is higher than the president today.
And he is saying, number one: Prepare.
Number two: You’ve got no idea what the real story is. That it’s
not even being talked about -- even in our circles. We still
haven’t gotten to the very bottom of the story. It involves things
like race; like a whole, huge slew of robots, okay? It involves
travel outside this Solar System that we’ve been involved in – we,
the government.
It involves so many different levels... to say: They’ve got it
handled. Well, they just might. And, what they’ve got handled is
not necessarily something in our favor.
You know, I know we’re laughing and there’s possible, and there
could be a lot of different levels. There’s a false-flag idea, but
there are agendas at work here and there may be things that have
not been dreamed of here in your philosophy.
And I have to say that ‘Henry Deacon’ is sitting out there in the
audience and, at any time now, [addressing Henry] because you
have a certain degree of knowing, you’re welcome to join us
here. But, what was drilled into ‘Henry Deacon’ from day one,
once he joined these black projects, was: We are the wolves and
they are the sheep. Okay?
There’s a sensibility about... a perception about... an attitude that
goes behind that. And that is not to do with being a member of
the United States – it’s being a member of a secret government
that’s worldwide and has an agenda. Okay? And is teaching their
military employees a certain line of reasoning that has to do with:
we have no choice.
It’s on the Georgia Guidestones: We plan to make this Earth a
better place and the way we’ve going to do that, guys, is to
eliminate, whatever, two-thirds of the population? It’s a plan.
It also has to do with their relationships with these ETs that we’re
saying we know are here. But deals have been made. Deals in our
name have been made, on the good side with the good guys and
on the bad side with some of the bad guys – if the information
that we at Camelot have been getting is true.
So I’m just throwing this open to make it a little bit wider, a little
bit more outrageous, and just see what…
AW: Yeah. I thank you for widening our concept. I really think
this is what Exopolitics is all about.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
To bring this back to the topic at hand, which is Disclosure,
there’s a way that the Disclosure movement is the modern
abolition movement by which slavery was abolished in the
United States by a movement, an abolition movement, which
started in the UK, which then went worldwide. I mean, we’re still
feeling the effects of it.
Fundamentally the Disclosure movement should be a movement
to free us, the slaves, from our metaphysical slavery at being
denied the true concept of what’s going on, and at stopping any
plans for our projected demise. Because we are free and
sovereign souls on this planet, in this dimension, and citizens of
the Galaxy, and no other sovereign has the right to deny that to
us.
So the Disclosure movement really takes on, and has to take on,
the moral force and breadth of the abolition movement that, in
centuries past, abolished physical slavery. This is – we’re talking
about consciousness slavery. So, I really support your bringing in
that wider concept of discussion.
SB: I second that in this regard, and I’ve been talking about this
of late. I believe that – and Hegland talks about this, the
Presidential candidate that split the TM movement – I believe
that the suppression of reality from the citizens by the state –
meaning: telling you that, say, the sun actually goes around the
Earth and not the other way around – is in fact a violation of
natural law. It violates a fundamental law. It’s beyond the law of
the state.
Now, what do I mean by that? I think you would agree that if any
nation, any country, were to, say, pass a law in their legislature
that you could murder anybody you wanted to – meaning, just
kill somebody, it’s okay, it’s legal – that they would say: No, no.
Whatever your constitution, whatever, that violates a
fundamental natural law that’s beyond the law of man, in a
sense, and you just don’t do that.
Well, I think this is also true. So this violation of actually denying
the reality to the people, there is no law that can justify it. There
is no law that man could pass that can justify it.
So, we’re really dealing with something at that transcendent
level. And, as long as that is the case, it’s virtually a toxic poison
that just seeps down and corrupts everything. Everything you can
think of.
So, it has to end. I don’t care what the what-ifs are; it doesn’t
matter. It simply has to end. Right? And once it’s ended, once
that denial of reality is ended, we will try to deal with what-ifs in
the best way we can.
VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: …[unclear, lots of echo] …the
secret ... and join once together and ... bringing the values, the
UFO issue... there’s no... the secret... [continues, unclear] Why
are the governments keeping secrets from the public?
BR: This is a voice from the audience. Could you tell us who you
are, because you’re not on camera?
VOICE: What?
171
KC: I think you have to repeat the question.
VOICE: [lots of echo, barely audible] ... It’s not easy. In every
country in the world they are going to...
[camera pans to man holding paper sign up to panel]
KC: Stop the secrecy.
BR: Top secret. Oh, I see the... that’s very nice.
VOICE: There are people, Alex Jones’s people and my people
have a lot of help [unclear] and all are focused on the secrets. So
that we have to go to the point in which, denying, the states to
keep secrets from the public. In this moment we can join all the
different movements that are fighting in its own fight and we can
all together, the world united in demonstration.
That is what I ask of you all, to help make a world demonstration
in which the public, the humankind, denies to the governments to
keep secrets from them.... [continues, unclear, lots of echo] and
then there is disparity … all…
BR: Yeah. For the sake of the camera, please tell us who you are.
Nobody knows who you are.
VOICE: [unclear] … I wrote a book called Extraterrestrial …
and all the information they gave to me. I am a sort of you, but
now say in Spanish the thing that… you have to hear us also,
because it’s not, as you said, something from the USA. You are
not going to win this fight alone.
BR: Absolutely.
SB: That’s why we’re here.
VOICE: We’re going to win, all of us together, all of humankind
and the thing... [unclear] there are people who don’t care about
the rest of us.
PH: Who don’t care? [laughs]
VOICE: They don’t care. But, how can we approach to them?
Because we are in a higher position, we have to approach to
them, not them to us. So we go to Alex Jones and say: OK, what
we have in common -- what secrets? Do the governments have
the right to keep secrets from the public? [unclear]
Above all, this is the reasoning for me: If something is good, why
keep it secret? You only have secrets when it’s bad, no? If it’s
good, be transparent, be clear, no?
BR: Okay, now…
KC: That was my point. And now Michael has to leave.
BR: Michael has to leave. We invite you to have a last word. I
don’t think it’s going to be the last word, but it’s an opportunity
for you to say your piece here before you have to leave, but I
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
have the feeling that this conversation is going to continue for a
while.
SB: What, you’ve got an audience with the king, by any chance,
Michael?
BR: There are a lot of people listening on audio now.
MS: Well, I want to emphasize again that, as far as the United
States is concerned, because it is the most powerful nation when
it comes to managing the extraterrestrial secrets, that there has
been a fundamental struggle between...
On the one hand, trans-national organizations and actors – and
the neoconservative agenda during the Bush administration was
one of the focal points of that – and the constitutional forces in
the United States government, the so-called White Hats; people
associated the Navy and the other kind of loyal constitutional
forces.
Now, 9/11 – September 11, 2001 – was, I believe, the first in a
series of false-flag attacks which would culminate in something
along the lines of an alien invasion.
I think it was the first of many and the reason it did not occur was
that the constitutional forces were strong enough to prevent the
trans-nationalists from moving forward with this sequence of
false-flag events that would culminate in a nuclear attack in the
United States, and then an eventual false-flag attack, which
would create a chaos around the world.
With the Obama administration, I think, what we have now is
that there’s an ascendancy of the constitutional forces.
So, I am far more optimistic that the transition to Disclosure is
going to be much more harmonious, much more thought-out in a
way where the public is properly prepared, so that, when the truth
finally does emerge – whether it’s at the end of this year, or in
three years’ time – that it will be done in a way where we can all
be confident that there’s not going to be two-thirds of the
population wiped out in some kind of cataclysmic attacks that are
false-flag operations, but a much more positive and harmonious
transition.
So I’ll leave on that very optimistic note.
BR: Thank you, sir. Well done. Brian O’Leary...
BO’L: I was going to say that I live in Ecuador and the
government of Ecuador, well, actually, the people of Ecuador,
just ratified a new constitution. And in the constitution – and this
is unprecedented, as far as I know – is that Nature has rights. And
although it hasn’t been enforced yet, it’s going to natural law.
Natural law is becoming more and more of an inspired common
denominator of the world community and that’s really good
news, because the opposite extreme is the agenda of Black Ops.
So, I think places like Ecuador could become a kind of a world
focus of what alternatives can happen. Now, the government of
Ecuador is also kicking out the U.S. Air Force, the Manta Air
172
Force Base, at the end of this year. And these are all positive
signs that the imperial powers, the secrecy, the trashing of the
Earth – that it is beginning to unravel. And so natural law, I think,
needs to kind of dictate the future agenda.
SB: This gentleman made a comment I want to comment on very
quickly. He pointed at something, which is very important.
There are right now around the world and in the United States,
many, many activist movements trying to get at fundamental
government lies of some kind or another -- institutional lies. But,
by and large, none of these movements are getting anywhere. The
secrecy reform is one of the least funded of all, but they’re all
passionate and they want to get forward.
The ET issue is, because of its incredible profoundness, has got
the potential to break through. And, what happens if we break
through that window, that door, these other reformist operations
and secrecy movements are going to be able to go through and
start working to resolve their issues. In other words, it’s like
somebody breaking through the line and everyone follows behind
them. That’s non-trivial.
There are many, many lies, many governments out there that
have created false realities and the people have a chance to,
maybe, deal with that, finally. But, we will be kind of the point of
the spear. If that’s the way it is -- that’s the way it is. But, I try to
keep that in mind.
I have tried to network with some of these other groups. Some
are environment, some are in peace, landmines, whatever; but,
because of the stigma of the UFO thing, they do not want to sit
and break bread. I understand that.
VOICE: It’s about how can we approach the [unclear].
SB: It’s not easy, but it’s getting better, you know, and we may
start to see more collaboration. But, probably, we’ll see
Disclosure first.
Paola, once Disclosure comes, I think all of us are going to be
very popular, and people will want to come and talk with us, and
we can network, and we will hopefully help each other out.
BR: That’d be nice.
PH: I agree with what he says, as far as: I remember, during the
Vietnam War, the Native Americans took over Wounded Knee.
We had a lot of other groups come through and there was change
in society over the Vietnam War question. If you remember, the
Native Americans took up and did the same thing.
However this is a discussion that is a part of what we’ve been
talking about. There is a chapter in my new book, All of the
Above, called Alien Racism. I have made so many mistakes,
because I do not know who’s visiting us, I do not know where
they come from, and I have no idea how they think, because they
are alien.
And one of the problems I’ve had with all of my stories is that I
have interviewed people like Dr. Michael Wolf whose contact
was a Gray, but it was a baby Gray cult; it was not The Gray.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
There are several types of Grays. That particular Gray was a
positive Gray. It was from another place.
And I have interviewed people who have been contacted by
different races that appear ugly. And I do not think that we have
the time to say this good, bad, evil, or whatever.
I was very embarrassed by something that happened to me. I was
talking about the Reptilians over dinner with some Native
American people, and one of those women was a shaman. She
was a medicine lady.
And she said: How dare you? She said: Our ancestors were the
Serpent People and they carried The Knowledge. She said: The
Serpent People from our ancestors were not evil and they were
very wise people.
And she said to me: Quetzalcoatl is called “plumed serpent” in
Mexico. A lot of cultures have these Serpent People. And we just
called all Reptilians evil!
I’d like to know how they would think of us. If we’re on another
planet, they show some pictures of us and say: These people are
evil, they are pedophile; they have sex with their children. These
people are good, because these people are Tibetan; what they do
is they are Tibetan monks and they meditate all day.
These judgments on these races of aliens cannot be made just like
this: good, bad, Reptilian, Gray, blondes – because, maybe, some
of the blondes and some of the Pleiadians, who are coming here,
are not exactly positive. So, in my chapter, I say: It is according
to the agenda of the race – why they are here.
Some of them are here, maybe, for their agenda -- like
hybridization, because they need survival and they’re using our
egg and sperm, because they need to survive. For them, that’s
good. For us, that’s not so good; they didn’t ask permission. But,
you know, let’s look at this before we go and brand Reptilians,
Blondes, and Nordics are good…
Colonel Corso told me there were 57 different races of aliens;
and, just from Paola, I have to say aliens, for me, are alien. I have
no idea how they think. I don’t have any idea why they’re here,
and I’m not going to take the government’s testimony as gospel
as to why these people are here.
And, when we get as angry as I’ve heard us be, let’s remember
that there’re whole groups that are here that are spiritual light-
beings. They’re interdimensional. They are also inspiring us.
They’re spiritual light-beings that are not...
I don’t know why we call them aliens. They’re just beings.
They’re souls from other places. Why do we brand those people
aliens? They’re giving us inspiration every day to go and do
things; and, whether they appear as light, whether they appear as
people, whether they appear whatever...
To me, I still think we need to be careful about alien racism and
putting that out there, because people are going to be afraid. And
then I had an Indian shaman lady saying: Watch what you say
about the Serpent People.
173
BR: I’d like to support that with a piece of second-hand
testimony that I can report from Barbara Lamb, who’s done a lot
of work with Experiencers. I met her at the Conscious Life Expo
in Los Angeles this February.
She told me a personal story about how a Reptilian had appeared
in her room, out of nowhere, had held her hand and looked her in
the eye for two minutes, and communicated with her that he had
been bred to communicate with certain people, to spread the
message that they are not all bad. And that’s very, very
interesting to me.
PH: We have to be careful, because the UFO community is
putting everything in boxes: this is the way it is and this is the
way it is and this is...
BR: Because it’s convenient for us to...
PH: Well, we’re human. That’s why we do that.
BR: That’s right. We’re always judging and we’re always putting
things in boxes and the truth might be much more complicated
than that.
PH: I think it’s very complicated.
KC: Well, it is very complex, and thank you, Paola. I believe that
that is something, that, actually, in the community – if you want
to use this in a very loose sense – that there are all different kinds
of beings, that that’s really what we’re talking about, and
widening the perception of the kinds of beings and the multi-
dimensional nature of all of life, us included.
That’s what we’re here to talk about. That’s what we’re opening
the doors to. What happens is -- you’re right, when it gets to
sovereignty, that’s one of the most important aspects of what
we’re talking about here.
What we’re talking about here is a transition that we’re going
through, humanity and the planet. In fact, possibly the Galaxy;
galaxies, are all in a state of evolution, ETs included, okay?
ETs, interdimensionals, you name it; they’re all spirits inhabiting
bodies, inhabiting light bodies, if you will. It just depends. We’re
all spirit.
So, at any rate, what Brian’s saying is also valid. In other words,
this is Gaia, this Earth, and we need to actually protect her, allow
her to thrive. And this has been held in slavery for too long.
Okay? This being, this whole being we call the Earth, is a being.
So, actually, you know, it is a movement towards freedom, of
breaking the chains. It gets that wide, but it’s also a question to
be asked of every, you know, visiting... even people that are here,
even subterranean beings.
We’re talking about: Is the Earth and is humanity allowed
sovereignty? Are we each individually allowed sovereignty to
grow and thrive to the best ability that we have to do so?
BR: And can we assure [or show?] that we’re capable of it?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: We’re doing so at the moment, I would surmise. But, you
know, what we’re saying here is, basically, that some of these
beings are coming here with an agenda, just like some of the
controllers, so-called, whatever you want to term these people.
They are not alien; they are us. Okay? Nonetheless they have
chosen to control. And we have given them that ability to control.
We’re taking it back, slowly, but surely. That’s what it’s all
about, is taking back the control of our own sovereignty and
saying: No! Enough! You won’t make decisions for us. We are
co-creators and we’re going to do this together.
But, not to also allow more advanced races to take us over, to
determine our path, etcetera, etcetera. So, there are many levels to
this Exopolitical view of how we’re dealing with this future that
we’re fast approaching.
BR: I was going to say that I’m thinking that we need to wrap
this quite soon, because, otherwise, we won’t have anything to
talk about this weekend. [laughter] And this is the start of a
conversation, rather than the finish of one.
I was going to propose that Alfred, as the founder of the term
Exopolitics, might usefully be able to make a little final
summation, if such a thing is possible, and then we can continue
this conversation elsewhere and else-when.
AW: Well, I will attempt one, but I will be very humble. [laughs]
I think that what we have touched in this conversation really is a
reflection of the multi-dimensionality, as you were saying, of the
multiverse reality in which we live.
And Exopolitics as a social science – the science of relations
between our human civilization and other intelligent, highly
intelligent, civilizations in the multiverse – can serve as an
interface. We were all able to encapsulate and hold this entire
conversation within the discipline of Exopolitics, as we would
have within the discipline of Anthropology, were we studying
some tribe that we had discovered on an island.
So I want to thank you for advancing the discipline in this
conversation and we look forward to many more in its evolution.
BR: Steve...?
SB: I don’t want to... not wrap it – but, rather, I want to put
something on the record, since we’re on camera that I think is
important. I should have done it sooner. Forgive me.
Namely this: that the umbrella of Exopolitics allows us to engage
a much broader, almost infinite, array of issues of past, present,
and future without question, and that’s where I want to be.
But, I think, we must remember that all of us stand on the
shoulders of a group of individuals who plowed through this
issue, starting in the ’40s, from primarily a pure research kind of
forensic approach – scientific – creating organizations, and doing
research and sighting reports and what have you.
And they had to do this during the heart of the truth embargo,
when the government was absolutely opposed in every way to
this going forward. It was brutal. It was difficult. And many of
them haven’t live to see this kind of discussion.
174
We just lost such a person recently, just a few days ago – Richard
Hall, legendary researcher – died. Others are going to die.
As it happens – and this is not surprising; it’s happened before –
as we transition from the UFO Research Era to the Exopolitical
Era, very serious tensions have developed between these old-
guard researchers and the Exopolitical activists and what have
you. They’re not foundless. There are reasons for it and they need
to be appreciated and they’re growing.
I wanted to be clear that I, for one, know that, without them, I
couldn’t be doing what I’m doing, and I have every intention as
this goes forward...
I’ve been graced with the opportunity to do lots of media and get
out there. Okay, fine. But as this thing culminates and we move
past Disclosure, I have every intention to do everything I can to
ensure that these researchers, these founding fathers and mothers
of UFOlogy, are given the credit that they deserve.
That they are able to participate in the post-Disclosure world and
not be shut out by a bunch of smart-ass scientists from Harvard
that just got religion; that they will be respected and honored.
This is important and I want to put that on the record. Thank you.
BR: Hear, hear! Wonderful. That’s right. We’re standing on the
shoulders of giants here. There are a lot of very brave men. One
of the names that immediately occurred to me when you say that,
of course, is Donald Kehoe...
PH: Yes, [unclear]?
SB: Sure.
BR: ...and his whole... They were heroes all.
SB: Kehoe. Hynek.
PH: McDonald.
SB: McDonald. But there’re a lot of them. Berliner and, ah...
BR: It’s a huge list.
BS: Oh God, I’m sorry. The name escapes me. But there are
plenty still alive.
AW: Yeah. Dr. John Mack.
PH: John Mack. Yeah.
BR: Absolutely. We’ve got a bunch of them that we pay tribute
to on the Camelot site, and there are many more who we may
never even know about. It’s a team effort, and many of these
people who have gone before us... and I hope that not too many
will have to go after us, because, with a little bit of luck, we
might be able to wrap this thing up, between us.
There are people all over the world, many different countries,
many nationalities, people of different experience, different color.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
We’re all working together on this, because this is about the
human race, and this is a thing that we have to work together on.
SB: I wish there was a way to reconcile, that we all get together
on the same page, but, I think, it’s just the nature of things that
that’s not probably going to happen. But, it won’t hurt if, when
we have the opportunity, to acknowledge them the best we can. I
think that will help, and we’ll see where things go.
VOICE: …In relation to many of my people in this conference,
because there are not... [unclear] ... there is an issue of getting my
people. I think that Gary McKinnon…
SB: I don’t know the person.
PH: Gary McKinnon.
SB: Oh, Gary McKinnon.
[many voices overlapping]
VOICE: …[unclear] we have to [unclear] ... somebody to say
something.
SB: You think somebody’s going to mention the Gary McKinnon
case?
KC: Well, Gary McKinnon has been getting...
VOICE: [unclear]
SB: …[unclear] agreement, probably.
KC: Well, we interviewed Gary McKinnon, and you certainly are
welcome to view his video on our website. He’s getting a lot of
attention in the UK. He’s got a lot of well-known musicians now
backing him.
There have been fairly successful moves to keep him from being
extradited from the UK to the US to stand trial. Whether or not
that will ultimately be successful, I think there is a final ruling
coming through, actually in the next week or two, I was told. So I
don’t know where that’s going to go.
They’ve put through a number of different defenses for Gary. We
at Camelot were consulting behind the scenes on that.
However, I have to say that Gary McKinnon and his group
decided, in terms of defending him, not to raise the real card that
he holds, which is that he found evidence of fleet-to-fleet
transfers and off-planet, non-terrestrial officers that indicated
what we know of as the secret space program, and therefore they
decided not to use that in his defense. Okay? That was pretty
much pushed to the side.
They are using another defense that we at Camelot did not
recommend, but we wish him the absolute best. He’s a brilliant
musician, I have to say. If you haven’t heard his music, I
encourage you to do so.
175
But, on top of that, he’s also a brilliant mind, and he did come
across some very interesting information when he did his
hacking; and he was very naïve. He was incredibly brilliant at the
same time as being naïve. But, he’s being used as a scapegoat by
the Powers That Be.
What he could have done was to actually take this issue that
we’re all discussing right here and now into a courtroom, which
might have resulted in Disclosure on a whole different level; but,
at the moment, it doesn’t appear that’s going to happen. Okay?
Now, whether he will be saved because he went this other route, I
don’t know. But in answer to your question, that’s the story with
Gary McKinnon.
VOICE: Well, I want to ask to make a mention of him and this
issue.
SB: I’m sure David Griffin is going to mention him. He is
Exopolitics United Kingdom. I think he’s speaking on Sunday.
VOICE: Because I think we have to take him as our hero and as
the proof. Why is he still in jail if he didn’t find anything? So, …
show a reference to him and the government… [unclear]
BR: We can do that, and we just have.
VOICE: [unclear, overtalk]
KC: Well, we’re going out over the airways.
BR: We just have.
VOICE: [unclear] Man has the right as [unclear] his own self,
the right of humankind of knowing these secrets.
BR: Yes.
KC: That’s right.
BR: But he’s one of many heroes. This is the point.
[voice continues to overtalk]
BR/KC: Yes. Yeah.
VOICE: …[unclear] meet all together in two hours … make a
short statement … and there is going to be a lot of press
conference here [unclear]
KC: We’re happy to raise it tomorrow in the press conference.
We’re happy to do this. We’ll raise the Gary McKinnon story.
SB: Well, the press can raise it. Let them ask.
VOICE: Don’t’ talk by yourself, as media, as a group, okay?
Let’s meet all together and say we are going to say something
about Gary McKinnon, and he represents humankind and wants
to know this kind of secret.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Desire to know the truth.
SB: Gary McKinnon is not going to be extradited. The Obama
administration has no desire to do that. The reason they haven’t
done anything immediately is because it would look awkward.
It’s like a matter of priority of issues and so... but it’s
inconceivable to me that it will happen.
But, of course, he has gone through a lot; but, that said, I, for one,
do not support or encourage anybody to hack into government
computers for any reason. Right? It is a form of civil
disobedience. If you do it, be prepared to pay the price.
VOICE: Why not? They hack into ours. [laughter]
KC: But, what we are all about here is getting to the truth. That’s
what this discussion has been about. We are claiming our right to
know the secrets and there is a reason for that.
So, with that, is there anyone else that wants to say a closing
statement or a suggestion or...
BR: I want Brian to say the last word.
BO’L: Well, just a quick remark and that is that almost
everything that applies to ET/UFO/Disclosure also applies to free
energy. It’s amazing how parallel and similar they are. It’s also
amazing how many heroes in the free energy field – who’ve been
assassinated, who’ve been threatened.

SB: And they should pay the price for that, right? Now, it’s time for us all to stand and be counted, and to create the
revolution – peaceful revolution.
VOICE: …[continues talking / unclear / other voices
overlapping] KC: It’s a revolution in consciousness.

KC: Let’s see, there’s a saying, and somebody, if I get the quote BO’L: Yes.
wrong, can correct me: In a time of deceit, acting in defense of
the truth is a revolutionary act. BR: Wonderful.

BR: Telling the truth is a revolutionary act -- that was George SB: The Truth! What a concept!
Orwell.
BO’L: It’ll set us free; but, first, it’ll piss us off.
KC: And I have to say that that, in my opinion, what Gary
McKinnon has done, and that, if we go fast-forward to the future,
let’s say, the year 2050, when we all know the truth, Gary KC: [laughs]
McKinnon will be in the forefront as one of the people that we
have to thank as a revolutionary for being a hacker. SB: Right. Okay. Thanks, Kerry. I appreciate it very much.

That’s my opinion of it, okay? And I understand that, Steve, you KC: Okay, thank you. Thank you very, very much.
have a different view.
AW: Thank you so much.
SB: No, no. I’m just saying…
BR: Thank you, Alfred.
[voices overlapping / unclear]
[crosstalk, music fades in]
SB: I don’t want him to be harmed.
BR: Good job.
BR: Steve is saying that...
SB: ...out in the world... you guys are the hardest-working people
in the field.

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176
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Bob Dean At The Exopolitics Summit Press Conference:
Introduction To Press Transcript
Barcelona, Spain, 24 July 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
BOB DEAN (BD): Ladies and gentlemen, let me express my
deep appreciation for your attendance here this afternoon. It’s
gratifying to me to see such a turnout from the Spanish media.
In my country you have to grab the media by the throat and drag
them kicking and screaming to pay attention to this subject. So
I’m grateful and have much gratitude for your attendance here
this afternoon.
Let me apologize to the beautiful translator / interpreter to my
right. [laughter] I am notorious for not following script or
instructions. So I will deviate somewhat from my prepared
comments this afternoon, and I will tell you essentially what I
have seen, and what I have learned, and what I have concluded
about what I consider to be the greatest story in the history of the
human race.
It is not merely the study of the history of the human race or in
the history of the human race. It is really essentially the study, the
conclusion of the history of the human race.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are not alone and we have never been
alone. [applause] We have had a history of an intimate
interrelationship with advanced extraterrestrial intelligence from
the beginning of our human history.
I spent 27 years on active duty in the United States Army. I led
combat troops in Korea in 1951 in one of the bloodiest wars
we’ve ever fought. I gathered intelligence in Southeast Asia in
Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos in 1970.
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But in 1963 I received an assignment to the Supreme
Headquarters Allied Powers in Europe. At that time this was
considered to be a choice and plumb assignment in the United
States Army. I was excited about the assignment. I took my wife
and my children to Paris, France. My children went to high
school in Paris and learned to speak fluent French. And I was
given an assignment to the Supreme Headquarters Operations
Center, a place we called ‘SHOC’.
I’m not trying to make a joke, but when I arrived, I was shocked
at what I learned. It appeared that an event occurred on the early
morning of the second of February, 1961, that almost started
World War III.
Large numbers of circular craft of some kind flew over Central
Europe out of the Soviet sector toward the west over NATO and
Allied lines. These objects were circular, metallic, flying at a
very high altitude, and flying at a very high rate of speed and they
flew in formation very obviously under intelligent control. They
would generally fly to the west and they would turn north over
the English Channel, the southern coast of England and disappear
from NATO radar over the Norwegian seas.
In the early morning of February ’61, World War III almost
began. The Soviets went on red alert. All NATO forces went on
red alert. Our fingers were poised on the triggers and over those
red buttons. And the whole thing was over in about 20 minutes.
A British Air Marshal by the name of Sir Thomas Pike decided to
initiate a study to find out what the hell was going on here. They
conducted a three-year study. I arrived in the summer of 1963
and learned that it was underway, and they published the study in
1964.
All of us who worked in the war room and all of us who had a
Cosmic Top Secret clearance were shocked and stunned by what
we read.
They concluded that the human race and the planet Earth had
been under some kind of observation and study for a very long
time. They -- whoever they were -- were deeply interested in us
and had been obviously observing us and studying us for a
tremendous amount of time, hundreds --if not thousands -- of
years. The study concluded that if they had been hostile or
malevolent, there was absolutely nothing we could do. The study,
titled An Assessment, also concluded that some kind of a program
was underway. Even today we still don’t know what that program
is all about.
Ladies and Gentlemen, that was the beginning for me. I spent the
last 45 years trying to determine what this is all about and what
does it mean. And I have concluded that this, indeed, is the
greatest story in human history. We are and have been members
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of, apparently, an intergalactic culture and civilization and a
community of intelligent life.
We are dealing with four particularly different races. They are all
humanoid, but one group is totally human just as we are. The
conclusions are that we are hybrids -- we humans are hybrids.
Our relationship with them is one of a fellowship and a
brotherhood. And they are assisting us and trying to come to
terms with who we are and why we are here.
The biggest question, basically, is: Where are we going? Do we
have a future as a species and a race? And I will tell you bluntly
and honestly that I believe that our destiny is in the stars.
[applause]
Now we talk about... forgive me for deviating again here
sweetheart, I am so sorry. Just last week my country celebrated
40 years of anniversary of the landing of the Apollo on the Moon.
They take great pride in saying: Look what we did. Isn’t this
neat? We went to the Moon!
The big secret was what we found when we got on the Moon. We
found overwhelming evidence that we were not alone. They
followed us all the way to the Moon. They followed us around
the Moon. They followed us all the way home. And they watched
every move we made while we were on the Moon.
All of this was filmed. That explains to you why those 40 rolls of
film were erased. But not all of those pictures disappeared. There
were some honest people working in NASA back in those days,
and some of those pictures survived. And I have brought a
considerable number of photographs of those NASA pictures
with me to this conference and I am going to share them
tomorrow night. [applause]
I must tell you they are shocking; they are stunning, and to some
people, they will be literally overwhelming. But I will say to you
as I will say to the American people and have for the last 20
years: Damn it! You have a right to the truth!
And to use a military term: You have a need for the truth.

But what they didn’t tell the American public is that NASA And I want to thank you and Good Evening.
purposely erased 40 rolls of film about the Apollo landings. They
purposely erased 40 rolls of film on the Apollo landings and
would not release this information to the American people.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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Project Camelot:
Bob Dean - Barcelona Exopolitics Summit Transcript
25 July 2009
Bob Dean (BD): I hope I can be heard. Will someone turn this
on?
Before I begin, I would like to say a couple of words of deep
appreciation for the sponsors and people who have put this
program together. I have been involved in speaking publicly all
over the planet and all over the United States. I have been to
conferences here, I have been to conferences there, and I know
how terribly difficult it can be to put a program like this together.
I have to say I have tremendous respect and admiration for the
people who have done this. Most of all, I respect their courage for
dealing with a subject like this where most of the elite leadership
and the power groups of the world want this subject to go away.
And these courageous young men who have put this together are
brave and they deserve your respect and your admiration, and I
want to say I thank you because I know what you’ve been
through.
[applause]
Now, I must explain something else to you. I never read from a
script. I don’t have a prepared script to follow. I get up on a stage
and I talk to people like yourselves and I kind of wing it.
I have so much material and I have such a problem of keeping it
under the allotted time that I’ve been given. I have come today
prepared to speak to you for three hours. I am only allowed one
hour and fifteen minutes. So something is going to have to give.
But bear with me, I’ll do the damndest job I can. It’s important
that you see the photographs of the NASA pictures that I have
brought with me.
Now, my journey began 45 years ago. I began a journey that, if I
had known then what I know now, if I had known the pain, the
anguish, the heartbreak that I was going to experience over these
45 years, I might not have started that journey at all.
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But here I am in Barcelona in 2009 with some of the most
delightful people I have ever met. And looking back, I find that
the journey was worth the effort; it was worth the pain; it was
worth the heartbreak. I’m delighted to be here and I’m delighted
to see all of you out there.
This is such an encouragement to me that people are beginning to
demand the truth. They know they have been lied to from the
very beginning, and they want to know. And I’m going to -- here,
this afternoon, hopefully -- contribute one small measure to
helping you understand and helping you know.
Most of my adult life, or most of the first part of my adult life, I
was a professional soldier. I was in the army. I joined the army in
1950 to avoid the draft, ended up going to Officer’s Candidate
School (OCS); and, so help me God, while I was going to OCS at
Fort Riley, Kansas, the North Koreans invaded South Korea.
The next thing I know I’m on the front lines in Korea being shot
at by a bunch of pissed-off Chinese and North Koreans who tried
to kill me -- and I had nothing against them; I didn’t want to kill
them. Here I am, in 1951, leading combat troops in Korea in one
of the bloodiest wars we have ever had, and the rest, I guess you
could say, is history.
I led combat troops in Korea in 1951; I spent 27 years on active
duty and I also was involved in the war of Southeast Asia in
1970, where I was part of an organization that gathered
intelligence in the jungles of Southeast Asia: South Vietnam,
Laos and Cambodia. Let me tell, you some of those years were
rather harrowing.
The most harrowing experience I was to have was when I was
assigned to Paris, France, in 1963, to what we considered in those
days a plush assignment, a plumb assignment. I was able to go to
Paris, France, take my family with me and my children went to
high school in Paris and, as I said, this was a plumb assignment. I
had no idea what I was to find when I got there.
When I arrived in the summer of 1963, I arrived with a Top
Secret clearance. When I arrived at the Supreme Headquarters
Allied Powers in Europe, which was located at that time in a
small town known as Rocquencourt, right outside of Paris, my
security clearance was upgraded to Cosmic Top Secret, which
was then -- and still is today -- the highest level of security
classification that NATO has.
I had to have a Cosmic Top Secret clearance to work in SHOC,
Supreme Headquarters Operations Center: the war room. I was a
Senior Master Sergeant at the time and, when I was assigned in
SHOC, I was given the job of maintaining the Duty Roster. We
worked on a 24-hour basis, day after day after day. And I was
given the job of running the Duty Roster when I worked in
SHOC.
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Back in those days -- let me tell you, the war rooms were
somewhat primitive. You’ve seen pictures today; I’m sure, of the
control centers of the most major installations like S.A.C.
[Strategic Air Command] in Colorado Springs. Everything is
electronic. Everything is demonstrated on the wall extensions just
like this mural that’s up here.
Back in those days we had teletype; we had field telephones and,
if we wanted something on display, we had to go up and take a
pin and put it on a wall and show the controllers where this
division was, where that Soviet regiment was and so on and so
on; very primitive.
When I arrived in the summer in 1963, I heard rumors about a
study that was underway. Now, it interested me instantly, because
the study was about UFOs and I was intrigued by that possibility.
I was curious about UFOs and had no idea then what they
represented. But we used to discuss this in SHOC, in the war
room, that something was underway. What was it about? What
happened?
Well, it appears that on the morning of the 2nd of February 1961,
World War III almost began. It was involved in the flyover of
large numbers of circular metallic craft, flying in formation, very
obviously under intelligent control. They would fly out of the
Soviet sector in the Warsaw Pact toward the U.S. in formation at
a high rate of speed and at a very high altitude. They would turn
north over the English Channel over the southern coast of
England and then they would disappear off of NATO radar over
the Norwegian Sea.
On that morning of the 2nd February 1961, World War III almost
began. The Soviets went on red alert. The NATO forces went on
red alert. Everybody was, you know … fingers on their triggers,
thumbs poised above those red buttons. And World War III was
just moments away.
Within 20 minutes, it was all over. The objects flew, turned north
and disappeared off of radar. It was all over. After this event
occurred, a British Air Marshal, by the name of Sir Thomas Pike,
who was a Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe at that
time; he was the deputy to my boss, General Lyman Lemnitzer,
an American Four-Star General who was known as SACEUR,
Supreme Allied Commander of Europe.
Air Marshal Pike says: I’ve had enough of this. These objects had
been showing up regularly, from time to time. As I said, they
almost triggered a war.Air Marshal Pike said: We are going to
come to terms and find out what the hell is going on here. I want
to know.
So he began a study. He initiated a study in SHAPE [Supreme
Headquarters Allied Powers Europe] headquarters that was to last
for three years. They published it and issued it in the summer of
1964 while I was there working in the war room. They titled it An
Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible Military Threat to
Allied Forces in Europe.
That’s all it had. Just a title head and front, couldn’t learn very
much about that: An Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible
Military Threat to Allied Forces in Europe.
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I was working in the war room one early morning around 2:00 or
3:00 a.m. and, as I jokingly used to refer to it, the coffee was too
black to drink. We read all the newspapers and magazines. Many
of you have heard military life is about 99 percent boredom
broken up with one percent of sheer terror. And that’s the way it
used to be and that’s the way it probably is even today.
I’m sitting there nodding off, and this American Air Force Full
Colonel looked at me and he says: Wake up.
He went over to the vault. The vault at SHOC was a walk-in safe.
You opened the door and walked in and we kept classified
documents in there. The colonel went over to the vault, the file,
and pulled out this document and threw it on my desk and he
says: Read that; that’ll wake you up.
Ladies and gentlemen, my life changed. I opened the first page
and I couldn’t put it down. I read and read and read. And I read it
every time I was on duty in the war room. I was shocked; I was
stunned by the implications of what I read in that study. As I said,
my life has never been ever quite the same.
The study, briefly -- and I have to briefly lay this out; I could talk
for two hours about this -- but the study simply concluded this: Is
there a threat to Allied Forces in Europe? Apparently not.
They concluded that the planet Earth and the human race had
been under some kind of survey or observation going on for
hundreds, if not thousands, of years. They concluded, in 1964,
that there were at least four different groups coming here,
observing us, surveying us, analyzing us, closely watching us,
what we were up to, what we were doing. They concluded that it
did not appear to be a military threat involved, because their
repeated demonstrations of incredibly advanced technology
demonstrated to us that, if they had been hostile or malevolent,
there was absolutely nothing we could do. If they were evil in
their intent and they were hostile toward us, it would have been
over a long time ago.
So, the conclusion was there were four different groups involved.
They have been coming here for a very, very long time.
Apparently they were not malevolent or hostile. The question
was: What the hell are they doing here? Why are they here and
why are they interested in us? Well, we did not know in 1964
what their agenda or their motives were and I will tell you,
honestly and frankly, that even today our authorities, our senior
military, our national security people still don’t totally grasp what
their motives are, what their agendas are.
Well, this study in 1964 was simply a beginning for me. As I
said, I was never really quite the same again. I jokingly say I’m
usually a normal human being. And, after I read that study and
launched on my 45 years of research, I lost all aspects of
normality. I will be frank and tell you that over the years of my
study, and the material that I have learned and gathered has
brought about in me a complete destruction of my old world
view, my old world paradigms.
The world view that I held since I was a kid growing up --
everything made sense, you know. I knew why I was here and I
knew where I was going, what was taking place. After I spent 45
years on this, it all collapsed around my knees. That was the
destructive aspect of my personality. That was the part that
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changed me completely from the kind of human being that I had
been before into the kind of human being I am today.
Ladies and gentlemen, I am totally alienated. [laughter] No pun
intended.
I said in a couple of interviews and previews and such: I have had
-- for many, many years -- a love-hate relationship with the
human race. One moment I love you. The next minute I hate your
guts. One minute I adore you for the potential and the beauty of
your music and your literature and your art and the next minute
I’m saying: To hell with all of you. Blow them up. Let them blow
themselves up. Clean the planet off. Get rid of them.
That’s part of the struggle of having lost your old worldview
when your whole paradigm collapses around your knees. So the
man standing in front of you here today is literally a human
wreck, as compared to what I used to be. But I feel pretty good
about it. I lost all my old illusions. I opened my eyes and I saw
the future. And I’m very happy about what I see.
I have learned over the years from an infinite variety of sources
here, there and everywhere. I didn’t retire from the army until
1976 and I kept my Top Secret clearance up until that moment.
After I retired, I went to work for the Federal Emergency
Management Agency and worked another 14 years for the U.S.
government, where I had a Top Secret clearance.
So I have a total of 41 years of federal service to the United
States. But I’ve heard things over the years that literally still
today stun me and shock me. I’ve learned that the human race is a
hybrid race. I’ve learned that we are not merely alone; we have
never been alone. We have had an intimate interrelationship with
advanced extraterrestrial intelligence from the beginning of our
history. And let me tell you that that intimate interrelationship is
still going on.
This one race, in particular, apparently reengineered us as a
species about 200,000 years ago. What we are here today is what
we call homo sapien sapiens -- you’re an engineered creature.
Your genetics have been manipulated. You’re not the same as
what you were and you are not the same as to what your children
and grandchildren and great grandchildren will be in the next
hundred years.
The human race is going through a transition. It’s more than a
transition. It’s what I have learned to be a transcendent
transformation into a new race, into a new future. And your
descendants will be as different from what you are here today as
what you are from the old Australopithecus happened to be many
years ago.
That’s not something to be afraid of. It’s something to look
forward to. You’re growing, you’re developing and you’re
becoming a new race, a new species. Your grandchildren, your
great-grandchildren and the descendents on in the next century or
two have destiny in the stars. Don’t you doubt that for a minute.
This species, this race, this troublesome bunch of monkeys, has a
destiny in the stars and we are a part of this infinite universe
filled with intelligent life. And we have been from the beginning
but we are only now beginning to wake up and see it. Only now
are we beginning to open our eyes and listen with our ears and
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look out there and say, all right where have I been? What am I
now? Where am I going?
As I said, your destiny is in the stars. Your generations to come,
your descendants, your grandchildren and your great-
grandchildren will go out there and they will claim their rightful
place. [applause] In a universe filled with intelligent life. Your
place out there belongs to you. You have a right to that and you
will claim it.
There is so much to talk about. I’ve got some slides that I have to
share with you. Would you gentlemen please put the first picture
up on the screen? I’m being assisted by some very wonderful
people back behind the scenes.
I like to start with a shot like this. Pictures of this nature inspire
me. It gives you a glimpse of the community you are a part of, a
little glimpse of the stars out there, the nebulae. That’s where
you’re from and that’s where you’re going home again to. That’s
where you belong. Next picture, please.
I love these; they’re so beautiful. I have some of these on my wall
at home. They inspire me. I look at them and I have the sense of
recognition that I’ve been there before and I know that I’m going
back.
But something happened in my country over the last few years
that I am very, very troubled by. Just last week the United States
celebrated the 40th anniversary of putting a man on the moon.
They went through this whole whoop-dee-do of patting ourselves
on the back. Gee, wasn’t that neat. Armstrong, Aldrin, you know,
Collins up there in orbit, on the moon. Aren’t we great people,
aren’t we magnificent? Look what we did.
Well let me tell you about a couple of things they did that you
may not have ever have heard about before. They took the few
pictures they had; they had it all televised. Everybody -- Rock,
Walter Cronkite and all of them were looking up. Golly, gee, isn’t
this great, isn’t this neat? We’ve got a couple of guys on the
moon.
Ladies and gentlemen, my government, NASA, which many of
us in the United States say stands for Never A Straight Answer,
proceeded to erase 40 rolls of film of the Apollo Program -- the
flight to the Moon, the flight around the Moon, the landings on
the Moon, the walking of guys here and there. They erased, for
Christ’s sake, 40 rolls of film of those events.
Now we’re talking about several thousand individual frames that
were taken that the so-called authorities determined that you did
not have a right to see. Oh, they were disruptive, socially
unacceptable, politically unacceptable. I’ve become furious. I’m
a retired Command Sergeant Major. I was never famous for
having a lot of patience.
The idea, when I found out, that they had erased 40 rolls of film
involving of several thousand individual shots about what really
happened up there, I became so furious that, you know, I could
have punched the director of NASA in the nose.
I’m not the easiest man. I like to tell people that, like Henry
Higgins in My Fair Lady, I have the milk of human kindness by
the quart in every vein, so I really am a gentle man. But I have
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the capability, the potential of being rather dangerous and violent. Well, thanks to the idea that there were a few employees in
And these lies and these cover-ups that I have learned about NASA 40 years ago – even today there are some good people
firsthand over the years literally infuriate me. working there, decent people, honest people – I have some film
that they preserved, that was not destroyed.
And I hope it infuriates you, because these authorities, these nit-
wits in high positions of power who are proceeding to spend all Gentlemen, put up the next picture for me. [applause]
the money the American people make for their own use, their
own private programs, and then lie through their teeth about what
the truth really is.

This is a NASA photo. This is Apollo 12, Apollo Systems 12, roll number 50, negative number 7348. They were flying over the Moon before
they landed. They went into orbit around the moon, as many of you know. I’m sure this is no secret. They went into orbit around the Moon
and, while they were there in orbit around the Moon, a number of anomalous artifacts began showing up showing interest in them. Next
picture, please.

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Ah, this picture was taken by Neil Armstrong. While looking out of their window of their little craft, this object flew by. There is the moon in
the background, of course, below the object that flew by the window of that little craft that they were riding in. Neil took the Hasselblad
camera that he had, put it up to the window and snapped this picture. Next picture, please.

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Ah, NASA Apollo 12, roll 51, negative 8653, something like that. Now this is a good-sized object. This is several hundred feet in diameter
that came up next to the Lander and flew along beside them for a time. The guys in the Apollo craft put their camera to the window and
snapped the thing, and I’ve always jokingly said there were guys inside of this, taking pictures of the NASA craft. We were photographing
them; they were photographing us. Next picture, please.

This appears to be what was shown above. It is not a UFO.

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Photo NASA Apollo Systems number 14 – Apollo 14 – roll 70, negative, what is it -- 9837 or 9887? This is the Lansberg crater on the moon.
The guys in orbit above the Moon were particularly fascinated by Lansberg. They had been given a special assignment to take pictures of
Lansberg, because the crater, which they designated as the Lansberg, had things going on in the crater that were very anomalous. There was
construction going on. There were enormous facilities in the crater up there.

So they were specifically designated and assigned to photograph Lansberg to see if they could figure out what the hell was going on down
there in the crater on Lansberg. While they were looking at Lansberg, this object happened to express interest in them and flew by. Now this
line is an artificial line that was drawn to show you the … it gave the direction that this object was going. This is a good-size object flying
past the Apollo Lander.

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God, I’m so glad that some of these were saved. I still get angry, 40 rolls of film, for Christ’s sake, and they erased them. Anyhow, next
picture, please.

This is the same photo of Lansberg, but the next negative, 9838 of this object here flying by. Next picture.

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Ah, now we’re getting into some nitty-gritty. I want to give you just a brief little bit of history here. Back in the early days of NASA and the
Apollo programs, I got this picture from the Japanese space agency, the Japanese NASA. They have a tremendous program going over there
in Japan. You know the Japanese are bright people.

The Japanese space agency signed a contract with NASA years and years ago, to buy copies of every picture NASA took during the Apollo
Program. And I’m sure the Japanese people paid a sizeable amount of money for this contract. And as the films were developed and the
photos were made, they shipped them off to Japan and the Japanese had a tremendous reservoir of goods of regional NASA pictures. They
bought them. They paid for them. So this photograph was released by the Japanese space agency; you can see the Japanese writing here.

This was taken by Apollo 13. Now, you’re all familiar, I’m sure, with Apollo 13. That was the aborted mission that was going to the moon to
land and they had an accident on the way. They couldn’t land. They damned well barely got back.

While they were on the way to the moon – here’s the moon – a number of things began happening. Some strange objects were appearing
outside the windows of the spacecraft so the guys grabbed their Hasselblad cameras and start taking pictures.

This photograph shows three different objects. This looks like a circular object with an enlarged dome on top. This is a smaller object with a
circular kind of disc-shaped craft, but coming in from the right margin of this picture is this. Next picture, please.

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Here we are. This is a blowup of the positive in the photograph and here is a blowup of the negative of this object here. Ladies and
gentlemen, this particular object is five miles long. I’m tempted to use the term big mother. No pun intended because it appears to be a
mother ship. It’s gigantic, five miles long and here are these NASA guys are up there in this little cramped Apollo capsule, and they look out
their window and they see something that is five miles long. It shakes them up a little bit. And when it got back to NASA, these pictures
shook them up a hell of a lot. Next picture, please.

Ah, this is the next sequence. Here this large mother has moved into the middle of the frame and something else has come up over here,
which has been estimated to be two miles long. But this really upset the guys. I have never been able to find out which one of the three
Apollo members of the Apollo 13 group would admit to ever having taken these pictures.

So, as you know, the Apollo astronauts were threatened with their lives, I kid you not. They were threatened seriously. They even threatened
their families if they ever divulged any of the information that they knew. Next photo, please.

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Here we are. Here’s the big mother; here’s the other one two miles long. Here’s a picture of the positive; this is the negative. This mother is
five miles long. Up here you can see what appear to be two circular objects, either arriving or departing from that particular big ship.

I can almost understand why the authorities in NASA, why the authorities in the space program didn’t want this information to come out.
They were frightened; they were stumped; they couldn’t deal with it themselves and they figured, if they couldn’t handle it, you couldn’t
handle it.

There would be social disruption; I believe is one of the terms they used. They would disturb the body politic; I believe the term they used.
So they clamped the lid down on this and it is still down and it is going to stay down, I’m afraid, for some time yet, until people like
yourselves and me and the rest of the people here on this stage, by pushing and prodding and chipping away at this lie and the secrecy, until,
eventually, we will succeed. And, don’t you doubt that for a minute.

[applause]

Ah, now I’m in for another photograph which I think will shock you some. In 1980, NASA -- Never A Straight Answer -- launched the
Voyager program to Saturn. They launched this little mechanical space ship filled with cameras, film and so on. They wanted to go to Saturn
because something had been going on in the rings of Saturn, around the moons of Saturn that didn’t make a lot of sense. Some anomalous
events were taking place in Saturn, near Saturn, at Saturn.

So they launched the Voyager in 1980. The pictures they got back from Voyager was so stunning and so shocking that they just locked them
up in a safe. Fortunately I met and developed a friendship with a retired NASA scientist by the name of Norman Bergrun.

Norman Bergrun worked for NASA for about 30 years. He was a technician, a scientist on the Voyager Program to Saturn in 1980. Norman
decided, after waiting a number of years for NASA and the authorities to be candid and honest and forthright and tell what they really found
up at Saturn. And Norman got so frustrated he wrote a book. [Ed Note: The Ringmakers of Saturn]

I think he couldn’t publish in the United States; no American publisher would even touch it. Norman Bergrun had to go to Scotland, for
God’s sake, to Aberdeen, to get his book published. And he published it. He did succeed. He got his book. It’s a piece of genius; it’s a
beautiful piece of work, and the things that they photographed near Saturn appeared in print for the first time.

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This is the A-ring of Saturn. I think you’re all familiar with what Saturn looks like; it’s a beautiful planet. It’s a giant, but it’s got rings all
around it. Well this is the A-ring and here’s the object that is self-luminous, obviously artificial, larger than our moon, that seems to be
moving all around throughout the rings of Saturn and among the moons of Saturn; and Saturn’s got a couple dozen moons.

This object here, as I said, larger than our moon, moving all around apparently under intelligent control in the rings of Saturn. Now, try for a
moment, if you can, to imagine the kind of a technology that is capable of constructing something larger than our moon, that’s artificial, that
moves around wherever it wishes to go that has probably got several thousand guys inside. That is shocking to some people. Next picture ,
please.

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Ah, this is the pièce de résistance, I guess, as the French say. Here you have another self-luminous, artificially constructed object, circular in
shape, larger than our moon that is also moving here, there and everywhere throughout the rings of Saturn and among the moons of Saturn.
You know, there has to be intelligence aboard.

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But this is the one that really blew the NASA people on the Voyager program out of the water. This object – this is an object guys – is 2000
miles long. It’s 400 miles in diameter, and it is an artificially constructed… Norman calls them an electromagnetic vehicle. He says they
appear to be making the rings. This is one of the rings of Saturn; I think this is B-ring. Bergrun says he thought they were probably making
the rings. I said: Norman, you have to consider the possibility they may be mining the rings.

I think the rings are probably rich in nutrients, in minerals probably, and an incredibly advanced civilization I think would work out some
system of mining those rings for all the minerals up there and utilizing them because space is filled with wealth; energies of all kinds. They
never have to dig another hole in the ground like we do down here. Space is filled with energy.

This is 2000 miles long and here on this end, there seems to be something like an exhaust or a flare of energy of some kind. It’s probably the
result of engines of some type inside this thing; but, whatever it’s doing, it’s there, and it’s a recognition and representation of an advanced
intelligence.

And that’s one of the things that they don’t want you to know -- that we are confronting and relating with an intelligence that’s so far beyond
our own; we’re looking at and talking about what’s known as a Type II civilization.

Now, for your own interest -- I suspect most of you suspect this -- but you are all members of a zero-zero-type civilization. Beyond us,
hopefully in a century or two, we might become a Type I. But this is a representation of the Type II civilization.

Michio Kaku, the famous Japanese-American physicist in New York, has put out this concept about Type II, 0, I, II, III and IV of the kind of
advanced cultures and civilizations we will probably meet out there. Well, we’ll probably meet out there; we have already met them. They’re
here; they’re in our midst.

[Ed note: The Type I through IV civilizations were first conceived by a Russian, Nikolai Kardashev]

So, I brought about 15 or 20 of these pictures but I simply have no time; I don’t have the time to show them all. So I’ve shown a few here and
I think I’ve piqued your curiosity. And, I think most of you are pretty bright people and you know you’ve been conned. You know you have
been lied to. You’re not fools and I think you know who you are and why you’re here and where you’re going.

[applause] Next photograph, please.

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Ah, this is a photograph taken by our Mariner space vehicle that we launched back a number of years ago. This is a picture of a facility on the
surface of Mars. Now, this facility is located on the equator, and it’s on the surface, and those of us who have studied it and discussed it with
each other, call it the airport.

I said this is the parking lot (oval flat area). This is the administration building here (raised semi-circular area adjacent to the left of the oval);
this is the main terminal here (structure directly behind the oval flat area), and I imagine it is a pretty busy facility, you know, with ships
coming and going, but it’s not an airport.

It is very likely a spaceport. It is on the surface and it’s on the equator of Mars. And if you are ever interested in launching a vehicle from a
planet, you put it on the equator and you take advantage of the rotation of the planet to assist in the launching of your vehicle. You can take
the momentum of the movement of the planet and it helps you get the thing off the ground. So, it’s exactly on the equator; it’s on the surface
and it’s massive in size.

So maybe that is the parking lot; I don’t know. Maybe that is the admin building, but there is something going on, on Mars, and I’ve been
going back and forth with Richard Hoagland now for years, where Richard, who I know most of you are aware of, is convinced that Mars is
covered with ruins. Well it is. But it is not just ruins. There are things going on, on that planet; on the surface, under the surface, continually
so. Next picture, please.

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Ah, this was published in a German magazine but this is a Soviet photo. This is from their Phobos 2 spacecraft. This is a city under the
surface of Mars that is the size of Chicago. Chicago is one of our biggest cities. Several million people live in Chicago.

This is under the surface. You can see the city block …
breakdown here portions of the neighborhoods here or whatever
it is, but it is generating an enormous amount of heat. And they
picked this up on the infrared when Phobos was going around the
planet snapping pictures like crazy.
And I says: For God sake, it’s the Martians who are there!
What a silly question to ask: Who’s there?
[applause] Next photo, please.

The Soviets were pretty open about releasing some of their

photos, contrary to the United States, where lying has become a
fine art. Don’t get me started on my politicians. Phobos 2, the
city on Mars, under the surface; you can see the streets,
Broadway, First Avenue, whatever.

People have said, well, who’s there?

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in the human spirit that will survive and will prevail. That will
survive and prevail and there is a tiny brilliant light burning
brightly in the heart of man that will not go out no matter how
dark the world becomes.

And in the years ahead when things are difficult and economic
problems take place, there will still be disruptions, fear, hope;
sadly enough, I’m afraid, there will still be blood in the streets,
here, there, and everywhere. This coming out of adolescence is
not an easy process. But then what do you do when you leap
beyond adolescence? You reach adulthood. You grow up. And
we’re growing up.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, my journey is coming to an end, but

for many of you out there your journey has just begun. And I
want to show something to you before I leave the stage this
afternoon. No matter how dark the world becomes, you can be
sure, as Tolstoy said, there is a spark, there is a flame burning in
your heart that will never go out no matter how dark the world
becomes.

And as my journey is coming to a close, and for some of you

your journey is just beginning, I wanted to say to you in a term
Now, I love this picture - Earth. I love this lady. Your ancestors that I think is absolutely appropriate – you Spaniards have got
and mine called her Gaia. She was feminine. She was a goddess. some beautiful terms in your words – Vaya con Dios. [Ed. note:
She was sacred. This beautiful lady has a respiratory system, she Go with God]
has a circulatory system and she has a heart.
[applause]
She is our source of life on this planet. We needed her. We need
her now. We wouldn’t be here if it were not for her. We talk
I’ve never been to Spain before, but it’s one of my favorite
about holy lands: Mecca, Jerusalem, here, there, everywhere.
places. I love you guys, and now I’m learning to love the
That is the holy land, people -- that beloved planet that we are on.
Spaniards. In Italian I learned to say this and I will say it to you
Next picture, please.
and I understand you know the meaning. In closing I want to say
to you all: Keom [Ed. note: phoenetic!]
I spoke to you earlier about the fact that your grandchildren,
great-grandchildren and so on -- the generations yet to come --
[applause]
have their destiny in the stars. And meantime, they will go out
there and claim their rightful place in that infinite community of
life. You can believe that and you can accept that with an
assuredness and truth that goes beyond doubt.

The destiny of this species and this race, this troublesome clan of
monkeys, is in the stars and there is your destiny. I want you to
understand that and have some hope, and don’t get depressed,
because you are going to be undergoing some very difficult times
in a few years left ahead.

We are going through this transition, this transformation, this

transcendent transformation into another species, into another
race. And, if you remember your own adolescence, it was a
painful time. The species, the race, is going through adolescence,
but we’re not alone. We’re getting helpers.

Kerry Cassidy (KC): Everyone, I’m Kerry Cassidy, from Project

We have family out there that’s helping us and they’ve been
helping us for a long time. They’ve been trying to encourage us
and nourish us and trying to point the right direction for us to go,
because we are a troublesome adolescent children, and we are
going through that transformation. But my point is that there is no
doubt about the inevitable destiny and truth of the human race.
Now, I want to quote something for you if you’ll bear with me
here. One of my favorite authors, poets, was a man I’ve admired
for years: Count Leo Tolstoy. Tolstoy said that there is something
Camelot.
This is Henry Deacon.
Henry has something he wants to say to Bob. Bob? This is Henry
Deacon and we just want to say something here. This is Henry
Deacon from Project Camelot for those of you who are familiar
with our website. He’s here today, and he’s here at the
conference. He has something he’d like to say, Bob, about Mars.

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Henry Deacon (HD): I don’t have any words, but Bob has
expressed everything that I would have said and I can confirm,
because I’ve been working in Top Secret for 30 years at above
Top Secret. We share a common background, but I just met him
recently here and I can only say that: Yes, there’s life on Mars.
There are bases on Mars. I’ve been there.
[applause]
BD: I didn’t even get started in telling you some of the things that
I wanted to share this afternoon about who and what is on the
moon, and Mars that Henry knows.
HD: It’s a long story, as he said. There is not time to put it all
together. Except that it’s a positive story, it’s not one of fear. He
showed a picture of Mother Earth and it’s giving birth and there
are birth pangs, but there is a child that is being born. And just
forget about the fear, because that’s just really a temporary thing.
KC: There she is.
HD: So a friend of mine, Angelica, who no one knows, she calls
this the emerald planet and it’s alive. Yes, it’s very much alive.
We’re a part of that lithe life form and life spreads throughout
this whole galaxy and the rest of our family is watching and
waiting, and helping quietly behind the scenes. And I’ve been
fortunate enough to be able to meet family that don’t just live
here on terra for a long, long time even before I was in
government work, so thank you.
KC: Thank you. Henry Deacon, for those of you who don’t know
… And the scientist said: I had to agree with him. We are. We are a
BD: Ladies and gentlemen … am I still broadcasting here?
Announcer: You’re still broadcasting.
Audience: Tell us about Mars and the moon. Screw the breaks.
[Kerry laughs]
BD: I’m going to share a small story with you before I run out of
time and I’m going to ask the gentlemen to please bear with me
and give me just a few moments. [applause]
198
This is for Hoagland. [laughter] I attended my son’s retirement
ceremony in Washington D.C. in November. My boy retired in
November in Washington as a Full Captain in the United States
Navy after 30 years of service. And while I was at this retirement
party, the room was filled with Admirals and Generals and retired
Commanders and Captains and so on. And we all had something
cool in our hands and we were all moving around each other
amiably and relaxed, you know.
A retired navy scientist, whose name must remain untold, came
up to me, nudged me and said: I know you.
And I said: Yes, I’m Eric’s father.
No, no, no., he said: I know you. You’re that notorious retired
Command Sergeant Major with the big mouth.
And I said: Yes, I’ll go with that.
He said: I have to share something with you before the party is
over.
He said: I retired several years ago. My last job was at a
government laboratory in Nevada a few miles from Las Vegas.
I'm a plasma fusion physicist; that’s my expertise. That’s my
training, my background, my occupation.
Not being a scientist, I go: What? What? A plasma fusion
physicist?
He said: Yeah. I worked at this laboratory outside of Las Vegas.
It’s not commonly known; it’s fairly secret. I worked five years
with two guys who are not from here. They were from somewhere
else. They were delightful people. They were scientists; they were
working with us. They were assisting us. They were encouraging
us and offering us ideas and possibilities and one thing and
another in plasma fusion, which is infinite energy forever.
And he says: I got to know them pretty well. He says: After a
couple of years I went up to one of them and I said, “What do you
guys really think of us human beings?”
And this chap from somewhere said: "Well, since you’ve asked,
we think you are – how did he word it? – A primitive, savage, and
dangerous race." [laughter]
primitive, savage and dangerous race at the moment.
The other chap was standing there who had been listening in. He
was also from somewhere else. He said, “You also smell bad.
[laughter] You humans stink. Nothing personal, mind you. We
find that you don’t smell good.”
And the scientist said: My first thought was, you know, I didn’t
spray under my arms this morning, maybe.
And they tried to explain that we humans have a psychic odor
about us that they pick up and they find it terribly offensive. So it
hit me between the eyes because, when I was a boy growing up,
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
my grandmother used to say: If we could only see ourselves as
others see us.
It would help so much to develop our integrity and our character
and all that, and this remark of my grandmother hit me that we
were getting this so-called from the horse’s mouth from one of
our extended family out there that: you’re primitive, savage and
dangerous, but you also stink.
I thought that was humorous and I shared that with Gogo and she
said: Please include that in your presentation. So Gogo, bless
your heart. I did that for you, you know.
Goodnight everybody. [applause]
HD: One sentence. It relates directly to what Bob has said. If you
want contact, raise your spirit high. That’s what they want
because they don’t want to mix with you if you’re savage beasts.
It’s that simple. Just relax and be happy and work with each
other. It’s a very simple message.
BD: Thank you, Henry.
HD: Thank you. [applause]
KC: If you want to learn more about Henry Deacon, he's on our
site. We have a lot of very long transcripts all about who he is,
199
some of where he worked, and about Mars. We also have a video
called Jumproom to Mars, in which David Wilcock, Bill Ryan
and I discuss some of what he told us. We’re looking for, maybe
a fifteen-minute, maybe half-hour tomorrow when Henry Deacon
can address you and maybe tell you some of the details. Thank
you.
BD: Let me add one more sentence. [laughter] I must add this. I
have traveled all over the planet and I have spoken to conferences
all over the world and all over the United States. I have never
been to a conference of this nature without there being at least
one, and generally two, of the others in the audience.
I want you all to think about that and look around you and know
that in your midst... [laughter] you have good friends in high
places, and they’re in your midst, and I’ve learned over the years
to recognize them.
HD: It’s your family.
BD: Exactly, they’re family. But like Ingo Swann, I’ve developed
the intuitive ability to spot them and recognize them and now I
have them coming up to me at conferences, introducing
themselves to me. There are no limits. Life is infinite and forever.
God bless all of you, and I will tell you goodbye this time.
[applause]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Futuretalk 5: Time for Truth
Robert O. Dean, “Henry Deacon”, Dr. Alfred Webre
Barcelona, Spain, July 26, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
BILL RYAN (BR): This is Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from
Project Camelot and the date is... we can never get the date right!
What’s the date?
Kerry Cassidy (KC): The 26th.
BR: The 26th of July, 2009. We’re at the Exopolitics Summit in
Barcelona, Spain, and it’s our huge privilege personally, I must
say... I want to ask Kerry in a moment to add to my introduction
here. I’m going to introduce you, Alfred Webre, who’s never
appeared on camera with us before. Alfred, it’s a privilege to be
talking to you.
ALFRED WEBRE (AW): Thank you.
BR: I’ve been an admirer of yours for many years. Bob Dean,
who has become a very close personal friend over the last couple
of years, and he blames us entirely for his new-found popularity
among all the young ladies in the world who are following
Exopolitics. [Kerry laughs]
BOB DEAN (BD): Shame on you.
BR: It’s either you or Sean Connery. He’s just not available
anymore. KC: All right, absolutely.
BR: And all this kidding notwithstanding, we want to introduce
somebody who we have presented to the world over the last three
years, somebody who we also know and love dearly and who’s
become a personal friend for even longer than Bob has.
We’ve called him “Henry Deacon”, which seemed like a good
idea at the time. I can’t even start to call him his real name,
because I can’t even remember it, because, for me, he’s forever
Henry. And Henry, it is entirely up to you whether you want to
reveal your name again.
‘HENRY DEACON’ / ARTHUR NEUMANN (HD/AN): I’ll just
say my name’s Arthur [Arthur Neumann].
BR: His name’s Arthur. Okay. Do you want to be—and this is a
serious question—do you want to be known as Arthur or Art?
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HD/AN: Yeah, just Arthur, thank you. I’m tired of the Henry
thing.
BR: You’re tired of the Henry thing. Henry is dead. Long live
Arthur.
HD/AN: And Camelot.
BR: And Camelot, exactly. It’s got something to do with King
Arthur.
KC: See, he stole your name. There you go... in this life.
BR: I’m taking up valuable time here... because we’re under
some limited time because Bob’s in demand, as I just said, and
he’s got to rush off to his next appointment.
One of the reasons why this is an important conversation is
because yesterday afternoon at the Exopolitics Summit when Bob
Dean was giving what I have put on our website and described as
the most magnificent presentation at any UFO conference that I
have ever heard, and I’ll say this again on record. It’s fabulous
and you’ll be linked to that here.
He was affirming the reality of bases on the Moon and Mars and
showing us photographs that have never been shown before, as
least as far as I’m aware, and it’s extremely important testimony.
In a minute Bob will tell people, I’m quite sure, how he feels now
that he is “under orders” from someone, somewhere, to speak out
like he hasn’t spoken out before. We salute you for that. This is a
very brave thing that you’re doing and it’s incredibly important.
One of the things that links the three witnesses that we have
here—we can call you witnesses—is something we could dub
The Martian Connection, and with that, I’m going to hand over to
Kerry because I’m talking too much already. Kerry...
KC: Okay, well, just hold on one second. Let’s let Arthur...
HD/AN: Just something really simple, before it slips my mind. I
was just sitting in the audience during the conference and the
cameraman was next to me and something popped up on the
news that was on C-Span that I sent you, and I just wanted to
remind about that. It was one of the astronauts was talking about
this too.
KC: Buzz Aldrin was talking about having what was a...
HD/AN: A monolith on one of the moons of Mars.
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KC: A monolith on the Moon.
HD/AN: And that just popped up in the last couple, three days.
KC: On the Moon?
HD/AN: No, on Phobos.
KC: Oh. On Phobos, on the moon of Mars, right. Okay. And you
knew that, right?
HD/AN: Well, no, I wasn’t aware of that. No.
KC: You weren’t?
HD/AN: I didn’t...
KC: But you told us about a monolith at one point. Do you recall
that?
HD/AN: Yes. I have. Uh huh.
BR: That was a different monolith. They’re all over the place.
KC: There you go. [laughs]
HD/AN: I was hoping that you’d have a chance to see Arthur
Clarke several years ago.
KC: Oh, we wish!
HD/AN: But, it just didn’t work out.
BR: It didn’t work out.
KC: Actually, it’s interesting you mention him because we just
talked to another whistleblower this morning and he knew Arthur
Clarke, also, so the two of you have something else in common.
HD/AN: Mm hm.
KC: Okay, so here we are. I’m Kerry Cassidy, this is Bill Ryan.
We’re Project Camelot, for those of you that don’t know, and this
is going to be just some open conversation. What we want to do
is talk about the future, because what this really is, is what we
call a Futuretalk. It is a conversation. That means Bill and I are
going do something really annoying -- we’re going to talk from
time to time, more than normal.
But, we really want to hear from you guys. And what we’d like to
talk about is your visions of what’s coming in the future, in the
fairly-near future ideally, but you can go as far out as you’d like.
And why don’t we start with Alfred Webre?
AW: Oh, thank you. Well, I see the future as being shaped by two
fundamental forces, perhaps three. One [is] a series of cosmic
cycles which are sychronistically happening at the same time
during solar cycle 24, which is 2009 to 2020, with the solar
maximum being around 2013... 2012 to 2013.
201
[Two], the Time Acceleration Matrix, which is an adaptation of
the Mayan calendar, so that as we move into 2011, the black hole
at the center of the Galaxy, which really mediates a lot of our
thoughts, will be slipping over into Universal Consciousness,
non-dualism.
And finally, what some people call “Galactic genetic
engineering.” That is the power of the black hole at the center of
the Galaxy really kicking in to activate our DNA, ninety-seven
percent of which, I understand, is not active now—they call it
“junk”.
BD: They call it junk, but it isn’t junk.
AW: Right, exactly. So, these are all sort of raising the capacity
of not only the human beings, but of all living things, to a new
frequency, a new understanding, a new kind of social contract, if
you want to put it that way.
KC: Yeah, and I think, Arthur, you could, maybe, talk to that
because you might have a different... I don’t know if you call
yourself a physicist officially.
HD/AN: No, no.
KC: But, you certainly have some expertise in that area.
HD/AN: Well, I don’t have expertise. But, in some of what you
just said, you took some of the words out of my mouth, so you
already said some of what I would have said about all these, well,
as David Wilcock’s talking. He’s making a movie called
Convergence, and this is what’s happening. All these various
things are all just converging.
I was looking at a little child yesterday, a little girl, and seeing
her eyes and I just... I could see the difference, you know, of the
next generations. You can see it, even in someone, maybe, 20
years old, that they’re already very advanced, consciously
advanced.
BR: Arthur, when we met you for the first time, which is almost
three years ago, I remember very, very clearly that this is one of
the first things that you told us. You said the big issue right now
is that everything is happening at once or just about to.
HD/AN: Yes.
BR: Can you delineate, can you list, what are those factors that
are happening at once? Just so people know what we’re looking
for.
HD/AN: Well, the physical factors already just mentioned: The
cyclic factors, very long cycles and short cycles; the effect of the
star, the Sun, here... the spectral changes in the Sun, and things
that I guess can’t be measured. I don’t know. For me, it’s an
intuitive type of feeling and not a scientific thing. I’m not sure.
BR: But, there are things that you have been briefed on.
KC: Well, you’ve already talked the environment. You talked
about what was planned in terms of viruses that were planted
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
around the world, sort of like time bombs somewhat. And you
also talked about a roll-out that would affect our economy, etc.,
etc. HD/AN: Well, these are different from the changes... Okay, I
mentioned Novelty Theory, which Terence McKenna, who’s
deceased now, who lived on the Big Island of Hawaii, I believe.
He talked about, he had, I guess, a calculation for it, and that
mathematical equation can be found on the Internet, I guess. And
you can see that it comes down to zero at 2012 approximately,
from what I remember.
KC: And that means what? That novelty goes down to zero?
HD/AN: Well, Novelty. It becomes more novel, in my opinion.
KC: Okay. That’s what I’m asking.
HD/AN: Yeah. To me it means more novel... well, novel to me
means -- I would laugh, you know, about it, but it’s not -- I don’t
have the words. I don’t have the ability to put things into words
that some of these gentlemen do, to put things in words.
BR: Let me interpret this for you, then you can check my
reflection.
HD/AN: All right.
BR: I read a book called Future Shock by Alvin Toffler many,
many years ago, who said that the rate of change is accelerating.
HD/AN: Oh yeah.
BR: So, you’ve got a logarithmic change here, such that
everything is starting to change.
HD/AN: Exactly.
BR: And it’s like there are statistics, which I can’t quote off hand,
but it’s like 99 percent of all the innovations in human history
have happened in the last year.
HD/AN: Yeah.
BR: Or something like that. And the whole thing is going
vertical.
HD/AN: My feeling is that, as of about two months ago, just
because there’s no direct marker, that maybe two months ago,
when I started weaning myself off of morphine for four years...
BR: Because? You were on morphine because...? Just for the
record.
HD/AN: I don’t know how to say it. They couldn’t come up with
any lab tests that were conclusive, so it was by exclusion, and
they said it was just a peripheral neuropathy and exhaustion. But,
that all happened suddenly when I left my last classified work,
just coincided with that. What it means, nobody knows; there’s
some guessing.
BD: Isn’t that an interesting coincidence?
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HD/AN: Yes.
KC: I was going to say: what a coincidence!
HD/AN: But, when I said good-bye suddenly and ran away,
instead of them controlling me, and then, I had this shock, shocks
to my system.
But, the thing is, about two months ago, something in my
subconscious... I had just been waiting patiently, basically in bed
in this room for three or four years in severe pain, screaming in
pain every day almost... and Bill experienced pushing me around
in a wheelchair one time. But, I thought: Just be patient. Be
patient, and, using the mind, I got through that.
Then, two months ago, something told me: You have to stop this.
No one else is going to wean you off this medicine. So, I made a
spreadsheet out and every hour of the day that I was taking it,
because I lost of track of how much I was taking. It was like 180
milligrams of morphine, probably, a day. It was out of control.
And so something said: You need to wean yourself off now... and
I don’t wish that on anyone to do that.
But, I got off slowly and two days, approximately two days
before, all of a sudden, the Zurich Conference happened, which
was a week or so ago? I had just weaned myself off and I didn’t
even know about going to the conference or anything. It just
happened. So the timing is such that it’s a message to me that,
yeah, now’s the time when everything starts to really move
quickly.
KC: Arthur, I have to say actually two months ago, I would agree
with you that there seemed to be a transition that happened.
There’s nothing marked in terms of in the news but there was a
sense that things started escalating, almost like rolling downhill
quicker. That was the sense I got and it’s interesting that you say
that. And you did; you sort of came awake and started on this sort
of move that has put you on stage twice now.
HD/AN: But something... something’s happened to where
something that was incurable... just, all of a sudden, I’m coming
back to normal.
AW: From the point of view of the Time Acceleration Matrix,
that would have been the sixth day of the Galactic Era, and, in
this particular window, which goes from November ’08 to
November ’09, there are many, many sorts of breakthroughs.
So, if we’re all feeling that general breakthrough feeling in our
individual lives, that may be coming from the programming put
out by the electromagnetic emanations from the black hole at the
center of the Galaxy that the Mayans called Hunab-Ku, which is
the center of all things.
I see -- and this to ask in particular of Bob Dean and Arthur,
because they’ve dealt so much with the area of secrecy -- I find
myself as one who did not come up in the culture of secrecy, but
see secrecy as one of the most powerful forces between the Open
Culture and this breakaway civilization that is the Secret
Civilization.
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I’ve found one of the most consciousness-raising aspects, to me,
is to hear of secrets, like the teleportation corridors to Mars, like
the forward positions on Mars, the stargates to Australia. To just
begin to see all of these secret programs is really consciousness-
expanding.
KC: Well, exactly. Information... I mean the information itself,
just to hear it, like what happened for these people yesterday on
stage when you were showing photographs that were really
revolutionary, because they had been hidden for so long. And
then to have a person who actually would get up on stage and
say: I’ve been to Mars and here I am -- a human. That was, I
think, mind-expanding for the audience in ways that we won’t be
able to even trace.
BR: It’s historical, no?
KC: Yeah. And, obviously, I don’t even know if it’ll go out
around the world other than because Camelot will do our bit,
right? But, this is the kind of thing that changes consciousness.
And one of the things I have to say is that consciousness changes
drastically, all of a sudden. It’s not like a slow, gradual... it goes
along, goes along, and, from what I understand, change actually
happens like that [makes hand gesture of 90-degree turn upward].
HD/AN: Well, even greater and faster than logarithmic, is my
feeling.
BR: The step changes.
HD/AN: Well, I don’t know if the step changes or not. I don’t
know if it’s like that or not. But it... digitized or not.
KC: So Bob, what would you say? Because you have kind of a
little more pragmatic view -- correct me if I’m wrong, along with
the spiritual insight -- but, I think you’re seeing these changes or
you know of things that are coming down the pike that are very
pragmatic for peoples’ lives.
BD: Well, I found secrecy, actually, to be corrosive to the human
soul and that’s one of the reasons I have been speaking out so
bluntly and so loudly over the last few years.
I noticed among the masses of people that I’ve confronted in
conferences here and there, an over-riding sense of fear, and the
secrecy had been taking its toll on those people. They were
fearful and they didn’t believe they had a future. They began to
think there was no future, that we’re all doomed.
And one of the reasons I came to this conference—and I gave it a
lot of thought before I accepted the invitation, because I don’t
like traveling anymore. I really don’t like flying in airplanes
anymore.
I came here to, I think, alleviate in one small way the secrecy that
I had observed that was corrosive to the human soul, and I
wanted to tell the people in this audience in particular... to meet
some people like Alfred here, who is a man I’ve respected and
admired for years. There is hope in spite of all the darkness, in
spite of all of the fear.
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I would like to say to the people who are interested and listening
that there is a tomorrow. There is a future, and they and their
children and their grandchildren and so on, the generations yet to
come, do, indeed, have a future and it’s glorious. They’ve got to
hold on to that spark of belief. They’ve got to hold on to that
hope.
That’s why I quoted Tolstoy yesterday when I was speaking,
when he mentioned that there is something within the human
spirit that will prevail and endure. There’s a spark that’s burning
in the human heart that will not go out, no matter how dark the
world ever becomes.
I’ve tried in my small way to convey that to the people. And I
was so gratified at the response that I got. They’ve come up to
me, literally by the hundreds. I mean, I say this in no negative
intent, but they haven’t let me alone!
The idea that I said something hopeful in telling them they do
have a tomorrow, [that] they have a future, that their children and
grandchildren will go to the stars... that is the one thing that they
need to hold onto. There is a future. There is a destiny for the
human race in the stars. And that’s why I’m here. That’s why I
came to add my small two or three cents to this whole thing.
KC: Well, I would also say that another thing that you tell them is
that they have a right to know.
BD: Oh God, they do indeed!
KC: And I think that just gets a fire burning inside them.
BD: Well, I’ve been furious. The fire burning inside of me has
erupted several times, and it’s dangerous. My very nature... back
when I was an infantryman for years and years and years, I was
not a gentle man. You pushed my buttons, pushed me just a little
too far, I had the tendency to become somewhat explosive and,
need I say, I had a tendency to be a little bit dangerous.
It’s one of the reasons why the Black Ops people have left me
alone. [Kerry laughs] Because I put the word out that... you
know, I had been followed in black sedans for a long time. At
night I had the midnight phone calls. I had the black helicopters
over my house.
I put out the word that I was a veteran of two wars. I suffered
from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, and I could not be trusted
emotionally; and if you push me a little too far, I was an expert
marksman and I carried a gun. Beware, you know, you mess with
me, I might end up shooting a bunch of you guys.
And you know, the black limousines stopped following me, the
black helicopters disappeared, and the midnight phone calls
stopped. So, the word evidently got out that... don’t push this old
bastard, because he can be dangerous, you see?
KC: Except you also had White Hats behind you.
BD: Oh listen! Let me tell you, honey, I have a lot of good
friends in high places, and I admitted at this conference things
I’ve never admitted publicly before. I do, indeed, have good
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friends in high places and I say that with a little bit of tongue in
cheek because these high places...
KC: They go up and up and up.
BD: They go out and out and out, yeah.
HD/AN: Yeah. The conference... You know, for the last few
weeks the ones—whatever they are—the invisible part of the
whole thing is... whatever it is, it’s very powerful and everyone
feels it in the conference. In the conferences, they’re all
expressing the same feelings, I think, at least 98 percent.
BD: Arthur, the human race is a work in progress.
HD/AN: Yeah.
BD: And who has been running this experiment? [points upward]
HD/AN: Who’s been running...? Yes, well, but they’ve given us
the freedom, too, at the same time.
BD: Oh, well, you know, we’re an adolescent species. We
haven’t quite graduated yet.
HD/AN: We just need to learn that we’re to work as a family
instead of fighting each other.
BD: We are not quite adults yet. We are troublesome adolescents
almost on the edge of being adults... but we’re going to make it.
AW: Now, just to pick up this thread here, of secrets, and of the
deconstruction in making public the secrets, yesterday here at the
Summit, the high point of the Summit was when, after Bob
spoke, and revealed a number of fundamental secrets, Arthur
came on the stage spontaneously and also revealed a number of
secrets.
HD/AN: Not much.
AW: No, but I mean...
KC: Enough.
AW: In context, it was a revelation that our Solar System is
inhabited and that Earth is part of the functioning social system.
And that was the high point of this conference. Literally the
consciousness of the conference was raised.
KC: A complete change.
AW: Yes, and that was acknowledged—right?—by people.
People acknowledged that. I think, just as you were coming in, it
was acknowledged. So, if we take this, ending the secrecy, I think
is going to be an important function of the consciousness-raising,
and having Henry and Bob come forth in settings like this to
reveal secrets which they’ve lived with for so many years is like a
baptism to the people, and an empowerment.
BR: Yes.
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AW: Because secrets are disempowering.
KC: That‘s right.
HD/AN: Bob was a chief soul for me, because I spoke to Bob
privately just momentarily, because he’d been very busy with all
these other people wanting to talk with him, and we have some
common connections throughout time, different places we
worked... in Belgium and such, and other places.
And we both have an Army background, enlisted, and just
different places at different times. But you’re like... it was a
confirmation to me, you know. I finally met someone that, you
know, could kind of reinforce my background. And -- before -- I
felt alone, you know.
BD: There, there. You’re in good hands. You’re in good hands.
[laughter]
This experience for me has been, and I say this not with any
animosity, but this experience has been for me like a Catholic
going to confession. [laughter] You know, they say that
confession is good for your soul.
Well, speaking bluntly on secrecy and some things that have been
covered up for so long, I felt an overwhelming wave of relief to
have finally gone public on a couple of things that I have found
to be factual and true. One of them is that deep underground
facility outside of Las Vegas where this Air Force Colonel friend
of mine went through one door in Nevada, and in two minutes, he
was in Pine Gap, Australia.
Now, that kind of secrecy, that technology that allows that to
happen, stuns people. Do you mean that we’ve done that? We’ve
got that? We can do things like that? What have they been
keeping from us?
KC: Okay, well...
HD/AN: I don’t like flashing credentials or anything, but it’s my
credentials. Inside this passport that I stole from my job, there
just happens to be a... what do you call it here?
KC: A stamp?
HD/AN: It’s so simple.
BR: Can you show it to the camera?
HD/AN: It’s a stamp in here that says: The bearer is a member of
the civilian component as defined by Article One of the
Agreement between Australia and United States forces in
Australia signed at Canberra on May 9, 1963. It’s just one of the
visas, you know, in this passport. This one’s for Japan.
BR: Could you show just the front of the passport for the camera?
It’s a brown cover, official passport. It’s not a normal passport.
KC: And we do want to say for the camera that we’ve actually
been to... I can’t say we went inside, but to the outside of this
person’s place of work, one of them. I’m not going to say where
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on the globe it was or anything else, so don’t worry, Arthur. But I
will say that we have gotten substantial verification that Arthur is
who he says he is.
BR: I would say total verification as far as we’re able to.
KC: And it was quite extraordinary.
HD/AN: Actually I tried... I encouraged them, wherever this
place was at one point that we traveled, I encouraged them to
come and meet the security people who I knew by first name and
they were kind of reluctant to do that [laughs] at that point.
BR: That was when we were a little more nervous than we are
now. What we did do, just for the record... it was quite fun. We
accompanied Arthur into a bar where the local employees in this
establishment would go in the evenings, and we just sat in a
corner and watched all his old colleagues welcome him and say:
Hey, we haven’t seen you for a while. And that was quite fun to
do that.
KC: Yeah.
BR: Anyway... I’m a little concerned here, Bob, that you were
interrupted just now because you were telling the story about two
things that you felt gave you a great sense of relief when you
disclosed them yesterday. One of them was the reality of the
stargate, the portal, the wormhole, the jump room, the network so
that you could one moment be in Area 51, the next moment in
Pine Gap. And that prompted Arthur to show his Australian visa
in his ... Was it a visa?
HD/A: It’s a visa.
KC: More than that.
BR: And the second thought? Please continue, because I want to
hear this one.
BD: It’s a matter of interest to me and it always has been, that
one of the largest national security agency facilities in the world
is at Pine Gap, but what most people have no understanding of is
that underground at Pine Gap is one of the largest extraterrestrial
facilities on the planet! Our remote viewers have been looking in
on that place for years and years and years.
And what I found terribly amusing -- not that there’s that much
humor in this whole damn thing -- but that facility in Australia at
Pine Gap apparently is an extraterrestrial R & R center. And
people say: What do you mean, R & R? It’s a military term
meaning rest and relaxation.
And I thought, how obvious, you know. It makes sense. Aliens
are here, having to deal with the human race, they need rest and
relaxation.
BR: They need some...
BD: I deal with the human race and I need rest and relaxation!
Which is what I’m going to get when I go home tomorrow, you
see. But I found it amusing, out of all the four major facilities on
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the planet, the one in Australia is an R & R center for the guys
from out there.
BR: Arthur, have you been there? Or would you rather fix me
with a steely eye and not answer?
HD/AN: Well, let’s talk about something else! [laughter]
KC: Well, let me say that you were nodding, so I thought that
was...
HD/AN: I would like to say something -- it’s just simple -- that
may be slightly off course here, but a couple of things. One is
we’re talking about secrets and stuff, that a lot of stuff gets
classified “Secret” or whatever; just because you’ve got a stamp
there and you have to do something with it. [Kerry laughs] You
know, it’s not...
BD: They’ve gone wild with it. They’ve gone mad.
HD/AN: And they stamp everything and it gets filed away and
then it has to get declassified, you know. It’s just routine to stamp
everything.
BD: The Navy keeps secrets from the Army. The Army keeps
secrets from the Air Force. The FBI keeps secrets from the CIA,
and that all led to 9/11. That’s where the secrecy leads, to
disasters like that.
HD/AN: Yeah. And the thing is, someone needs to interface
between all these different groups and try and help them to
communicate with each other while respecting their own
boundaries.
KC: And are you willing to agree with me that you were one of
those people that kind of crossed some of those lines?
HD/A: Yes. Yeah.
KC: Between the various agencies?
HD/A: Yes. My “customers” were the whole spectrum.
KC: Which is why you kind of have the level of knowledge about
the overall big picture, as we call it.
HD/AN: That’s why I’m a big picture person and always a
general person and not focused in one area. And I didn’t ask for
it, believe me. It just happened. You know, you just get a phone
call and you just... nothing else but a phone call: Would you like a
job? “Yes.” Okay. “What is it?” Well, you just have to be patient
and find out. It’s that kind of thing.
The other thing is at some levels, people are saying that the
governments -- like the presidents or whatever, or the leaders of
the country -- should release these secrets. But they haven’t had
access to this information. They get the tours of certain things,
but it’s very limited. They get to see blinking lights or whatever,
like... you know, and that’s as far as it goes, as far as I’ve ever
been aware.
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BD: Arthur, the incident involving President Carter some years
ago, where the President of the United States was told by the
Director of Central Intelligence: Mr. President, you don’t have a
high enough security classification for us to tell you all this
information and, sir, you don’t have a need to know.
Now, who was the Director of Central Intelligence at that
moment? George Herbert Walker Bush, who became President --
that’s how damn bad it’s become over the years. That’s how
corrosive secrecy can be, not merely to the human soul, but to the
constitutional system of government. It’s corrosive as hell and
it’s got to stop! And I know you agree with me.
HD/AN: Yes, the fear thing’s got to stop and we need to alleviate
the fear for people, because all of these things, most of the things
that we see in the press, are just created and planned long ago --
fictitious enemies.
There are enemies, but a lot of them are manufactured and some
of them aren’t even real. Okay? And there’s a long list, and
they’re almost at the end of their list. They’re at the very end of
their list now, the timing, so there’s nothing else, no more rabbits
to pull out of the hat.
KC: Wait a second. I want to actually say... [to Arthur] what was
your level of clearance? Because his [Bob Dean] was Cosmic
Top Secret.
HD/A: Cosmic Top Secret, because that’s a NATO classification.
BD: That’s NATO. And there are levels above that. There are
two “Q” clearances above that.
KC: You had a “Q”.
HD/A: My first one was a “Q” clearance, with certain letters.
BD: Special Access Programs.
HD/AN: Yeah, but it was “Q” clearance and that was through the
Department of Energy, it was the Energy Research and
Development Agency. Before that, it was the Atomic Energy
Commission, and they keep changing names and you have to
keep reprinting the paperwork and everything. I don’t know why.
But, yeah, it was a “Q” clearance, and then it went to... basically
from there it varied. It went up and down from Secret up to Top
Secret and over a period of 30 years or more. And then it ended
up with Top Secret SCI and then Top Secret with a bunch of
letters which I still... I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. But they
were... it was basically...
KC: You’re not sure if you can’t say what it was.
HD/AN: Yeah... It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter.
KC: Okay.
BR: I would like to ask—because this is sort of meant to be a
Futuretalk as it were... I fully understand and agree with you
when you talk about the agenda of hyping up fear in order to
206
make people more easily controllable. But let’s ask the three of
you: What is worth being concerned about and what is a
distraction?
What should we be focused on as issues for the human race in the
next few years? And what just is something that is a misdirect,
like a magician on a stage that we shouldn’t even be worried
about, but they’re trying to get us to think that way? How can you
separate these things out for people? This is a really important
opportunity to make a statement.
BD: Alfred probably is best qualified to answer that.
AW: Well, as a general answer to that, I would say that anything
associated with the current world economy, which is an economy
based on the manipulation of the dialectic of enemies, is a
fundamental distraction, so that the entirety of the arms race, the
entirety of the strategic balance of forces using threat of war, is a
distraction.
BR: So, don’t fall for the war rhetoric?
AW: Right. And number two, the area that these gentlemen have
worked in, I think, is the cutting edge of human consciousness
moving to the next level and that is...
HD/AN: I think it’s you [who are] working in the area of human
consciousness!
AW: Well, no, but understanding that an extraterrestrial presence
is not just an abstraction, but, rather, it’s a human race very much
like our own...
HD/AN: It’s an extension of our family.
AW: Yeah...that lives under the surface of Mars, with whom our
secret government now has contact.
And so we have rights, we have inherent rights in the same way I
think under natural law, which will invoke that, which were
expressed in the Declaration of Independence of the US.
They were expressed in the US Constitution, the Canadian
Charter of Rights, in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,
various documents in our terrestrial human culture. And those
include rights as sovereign citizens in the universe. Therefore, if
our governments are now engaged in long term... I mean these
things go back at least 20 or 30 years. That’s just from people
who I’ve talked to.
KC: Treaties have been made...
HD/AN: I have to remind you that the “governments”... it’s not
the Presidents and down, or the queen and down. It’s agencies
above that. So, you can’t blame the governments that we
normally call governments.
AW: No, no. Sure. But, whether or not they are supra
governments, they are still subject to natural law and universal
law, and they can be called before a court empowered under
natural law to stand trial for war crimes. But we don’t want to go
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
that direction. The direction that we want to go is to have that
secret world become transparent, and integrated with our world,
for which we have an inherent right under natural law.
BR: Bob, you have your hand raised. You wanted to say
something?
BD: I simply must apologize that I have an appointment I
accepted for an interview in about five minutes and I do want to
say I’m sorry, but I will have to take leave of you illustrious
personalities here for a while. I have to go. I’m sorry, Kerry.
KC: Okay. It’s okay. Is there anything you want to say before
you leave, Bob, about the end of secrecy and the beginning of
what’s coming next? Because just as I went to get you today, you
were addressing a group and you said there’s going to be in the
next 12 to 18 months some things that people need to prepare for.
BD: Yeah. Well, the gentleman I was talking to was an
economist and a bit of a banker and he’s been looking at the
statistics, the data, and he’s been watching what’s been going on
in the world markets and he’s troubled by what he sees. He’s
convinced that we’re not out of the woods yet on this economic
thing. He asked me what did I honestly think the next year or so
had coming?
I said, as I said yesterday, we’re in for some bad times. We have
not seen the worst of it yet, and I hate to tell you that, but that’s
true. We have not seen the worst. The other shoe has not dropped
yet.
The only thing I can tell you is that, within the next year and a
half, we’re in for some events on the world scale that is going to
make 9/11 pale in comparison. And that is sad and tragic.
But to leave you with this, I must leave you on an up-note for the
viewers who will be seeing this and as Tolstoy said: There is that
spark that burns deep within each of us. It will not go out, no
matter how dark the world becomes.
I want to leave this with the people who will see this tape: There
is a tomorrow, the future of this species is glorious; it is in the
stars. And they’ve got to have hope and not be afraid. That’s all I
can say in closing.
KC: Okay. Thank you, Bob.
BD: Thank you, sweetheart.
KC: It’s an honor, as always.
BR: Thanks so much, Bob.
BD: It’s always a pleasure. Read this gentleman’s book. [Ed.
note: Alfred Webre, Exopolitics: Politics, Government, and Law
in the Universe]
KC: Absolutely. Yes. Well, I’ve read his work. Actually I read
his book a long time ago. Before the organization of Exopolitics
was ever created, this man had the vision of something.
207
BD: He’s a true visionary.
HD/AN: Yes.
KC: Oh yes, absolutely. I don’t think people even realize that that
this man is a true futurist, actually.
BD: Well, if someone would be kind enough...
KC: And, he should be listened to in that way, because what he
says today is not often not understood, but I think it’s always the
kind of thing that years in advance, years later, they’re going to
say he was one of the first, if not the first, in certain areas. It’s a
gift.
BD: We need our prophets and we need our visionaries. And here
sits one.
KC: That’s right.
HD/AN: I just feel that we need to realize that the rest of our
family has been here visiting us, and also slightly off the planet,
and other places in there. They’re interested in watching and they
would not have survived as long as they have if they hadn’t gone
through this transition that we’re about to go through. And so,
you have to realize that they’re friendly and not evil, mean
creatures out there like in some science fiction movies.
BR: All of them?
HD/AN: Anyone that’s survived. Generally, anyone’s that
survived that’s worthwhile, I mean, the majority. Otherwise they
would have destroyed themselves by now.
BR: Yeah. You’re not saying that 100% of the extraterrestrials
races are friendly.
HD/AN: Well, they have a different way of... they have a
different way.
KC: Some are service-to-self; some are service-to-others.
Service-to-self actually means that they... what you’re... what
they’re... because you haven’t actually met them all, right?
HD/AN: No, that’s impossible.
KC: You were only exposed to a few.
HD/AN: Yeah. I mean, you’re talking about particular groups.
But, the thing is that in general... I mean, there was this Type 0
that was talked about, and Type 1? They wouldn’t have survived
this Type-0-to-Type-1 transition if they hadn’t raised their
consciousness to some degree.
In general, that’s the case. And, then, it may have been some
exceptions, but they’re such a minority that... [Ed note: Just
google “ Kardashev scale ” to learn more about the “Type 0”
theory.]
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KC: Well, actually, our government, their liaison, is often with
these service-to-self.
HD/AN: Yeah. That’s right.
BR: And the evil forces on this planet aren’t doing it all on their
own, right? They didn’t think up all this stuff on their own.
KC: We, actually… humanity isn’t doing it all on their own.
They’re being pushed and prodded by some unseen forces and
unseen beings. It may be a philosophical difference.
HD/AN: It’s a philosophical difference. That’s what it is, yeah.
BR: By recognizing their existence, I’m not giving them power.
I’m just saying we’ve got to tell the truth here. There is evil out
there in the universe. It doesn’t just stop at the Illuminati.
HD/AN: Well, there’s darkness, but darkness is for me... I view it
as ignorance or, ultimately, the absence of light. It’s not an
opposing force, ultimately. There’s light and then there’s no light,
or the interference...
BR: I was talking about functionality here.
KC: Okay. So, maybe, we can actually... even you could talk
about, Alfred, what we’ve been talking about off camera a little
bit, in terms of there is investigation at the moment going into
some of the relationships that are going on behind the scenes with
various races.
AW: Yes. Sure. Just to keep it down to specific data-points, we
know what Arthur has said here, that he’s been to Mars. We also
have another very credible whistleblower who we’ve talked
about, who in 1980, went to Mars twice.
BR: This is Andrew Basiago.
AW: Yes, in the company of a CIA officer, Courtney Hunt, just
to put that on the record, through a Mars jump room, a
teleportation jump room, from El Segundo, California, to one of
the sort of bunker-type bases right out on the surface of Mars,
and who walked around on the surface of Mars.
And, who in 1971, in the company of his father, who was a CIA
contract officer type, met three Martian astronauts who were on a
liaison and coordination visit at Curtis Wright Air Force Base.
[This reference is unclear. Google: Curtiss-Wright is a
manufacturer of jet fighter aircraft. In the Barcelona panel
discussion, he called this Wright AFB in New Jersey. There is no
listing for that in NJ, although there is a McGuire AFB in
Wrightstown, NJ. Otherwise, there is Wright-Patterson AFB in
Ohio.]
So we know that from at least 1971, there’s been a coordinating
and liaison type function for relationship between the Martians
and the U.S. government.
Well, from what I’ve read, the Martian civilization is a positive,
ethical civilization. So, to counteract, our strategy should be as
citizens to encourage an open strategic alliance between our
208
culture, our Open Culture, and the Martian culture, and to make
that available immediately at the highest level, which is a
Presidential acknowledgement of the existence and relationship
with the civilization on Mars.
BR: And that’s one of the founding principles of Exopolitics.
AW: Exactly.
KC: Yeah, but I would like to say that you [Arthur] are nodding,
so you’re kind of recognizing some of the testimony...
HD/AN: Yes. I never heard of this until now, this person or
anything, and it’s like: Ah! Someone else! You know?
BR: Another one... yeah.
HD/AN: It sounds like a very similar kind of work, too. Very
similar.
KC: But, I would like to say -- and I’m throwing this out here -- I
am familiar, because I’ve had some personal contact with some,
what I know of as Annunaki, and that there are some positive
Annunaki and there are some more negatively oriented. You
know, just like there are humans, good and bad, you know, there
are different Annunaki.
And I have to say that they’re interacting with individuals,
because I have had some interaction. They have made their
presence known to me. And I know Bob isn’t here to actually talk
about this, but Bob has had his own interaction with Annunaki
that he has talked about with us, and I think he met them.
HD/AN: Well, the Annunaki are the exception that I was talking
about where it’s... but I really didn’t have any time to even really
communicate, because it’s always at a table in a room and it’s
just... That wasn’t my function, to get to know everyone
intimately, you know.
KC: Right.
HD/AN: But, it was similar to what you [Alfred] were talking
about, liaison and things like that.
BR: But, the table you’re talking about is a table surrounded by
humans not from this planet, right?
HD/AN: Yeah. Well, they look like humans in general. Yes. Uh
huh.
KC: And this took place at times also on Mars, right?
HD/A: That’s where they all took place for me. For me.
KC: Did you ever meet with these people here? Because as Bob
was saying, he met with, a scientist was...
HD/AN: No. Not here.
KC: I see.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BR: I just wanted to jump in before the end of the tape to say that
we...
HD/AN: I’m sorry. I made a mistake. Did I ever meet with them
when I was not working? Yes. But that’s another story, a long
time ago.
BR: That’s another interesting story.
KC: Oh, right. Okay.
BR: I just want to say on record that the person who Alfred
Webre is talking about is Andy Basiago. We’ve been in touch
with him for 18 months. We haven’t met him personally, but I
personally spoke with him 18 months ago for four hours
continuously, which is one of the more extraordinary
conversations I’ve had in my life. I’ve had quite a lot of
extraordinary conversations now.
KC: And I lasted about two hours. I couldn’t last the whole time,
to be honest.
BR: And as far as we are able to determine, and I’m just speaking
epistemologically here, we fully support Andy’s story and we
fully support his own intention to release his story to the world.
He’s only told a tiny part of it so far.
What’s really interesting here is that this dovetails fully with
Arthur’s personal experiences to do with time travel, to do with
wormholes, to do with the relationship with activity on Mars, and
a whole complexity here that’s very hard to swallow, but it’s
extremely important to understand.
I just wanted to add our own support to that. This is something
else that we’ll pick up and roll with later, because it’s way
beyond the scope of this conversation.
KC: Okay, but I had a conversation today with one of our
whistleblowers and he actually was talking about the amount of
radiation on Mars and questioning...
BR: No, he wasn’t. He was talking about the radiation in the Van
Allen Belts.
KC: No, he actually also talked about the radiation on Mars and I
was asking him about that and I said that the bases were
underground. Is there radiation on Mars in excess of what we
have, for example, here on Earth?
HD/AN: Because of what I was doing there, I wasn’t even
focused on thinking about those things. I simply was going there
for an hour—[laughs] it sounds strange—for an hour meeting and
then I’d leave and come here. And so for me, because of the way
my life’s been like this for forever you know, nothing was
unusual. I didn’t even think about things like that, whether there
was radiation or not. Those things were just handled by the way
the system was set up there, or is set up, or will be set up. I don’t
even know what time period it is now. That’s another subject.
KC: Well you had physiological reaction to having gone through
that process. Is that right?
209
HD/AN: Right. Yeah. That’s another thing, because of the kind
of like jetlag kind of thing. There is medicine that I was taking
that, when I quit, I actually forgot about, because everything
happened so suddenly when I quit that it was not available any
longer. But that’s another subject again.
BR: Well it’s tough to be, yeah... earlier, at the start of this
conversation, Arthur made a joke and said that he ran away. This
is not true, and I didn’t want that to be misunderstood. It was
after a disagreement at work; you basically handed in your
notice.
HD/A: It was kind of... it was not even a disagreement, it was...
BR: It was a conflict.
HD/AN: Mm... It was just… I got very tired, because things were
becoming more and more restricted in my life, to the point of
where I could no longer even call my friends or email my friends,
and instead of just trying to sit it out and go through all the
massive paperwork and things, and waiting, I just decided, you
know, I would make the decision instead.
BR: So, basically, it was a relatively sudden departure.
HD/AN: Very sudden.
BR: Rather than being gradually rooted out, and that involved
your suddenly not taking any more of a particular medication.
HD/AN: Which I forgot about because I just... I literally left
everything behind in my home and just went to another country.
BR: Yes. What I’m stating here is that the medication you took
was something called ‘Lorenzil’ [Ed note: Could not clarify this
word ... Lorenzo’s Oil? Used in treating certain neuropathies.
Lorenzol? Used in veterinary medicine.] which if you suddenly
withdraw from that... Sorry. That the effects that the Lorenzil is
designed to ameliorate is something that’s called
transdimensional disorder.
HD/A: Well, this is something that I understand from someone
else that I didn’t know about.
BR: Okay. This is another thing that’s beyond the scope of this
conversation. It’s got to do with a zero time reference that Peter
Moon talked about in his first Montauk books and so on and so
forth. For the body it’s very disorienting when it’s going through
jump gates, or jump rooms, or whatever it is you want to call
these things. There’s a certain medication that one has to take in
order to ameliorate that. If you suddenly withdraw from that, then
you’re in big trouble, and this is one of the things that you are up
against.
KC: Right. And I think that, at another point, we can talk in more
depth about that. But, for the purposes of this conversation, we’re
really talking about the future of humanity and our interaction
with, well, certainly Annunaki on Mars.
But, we have a statement that was made, which was actually said
to us by Robert Dean and also some other whistleblowers, that
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the Annunaki are running things from behind the scenes here on KC: But the fourth-dimensional aspect, which is the
Earth. And I wonder if you, Alfred, would address that at all. interdimensional quality of this interaction and the fact of these
beings, is a little different, I would say, than what we interact
BR: Or try to. with in terms of the Annunaki—in theory anyway.

AW: Right. Well certainly I’ve heard that there are various... AW: Yes. Yeah, this is a different sort of interaction.
That is, to take a model of how decisions are made here on Earth,
there are various models which have some evidence for them. BR: One second. We’ve got to stop. We’ve got one minute.

One model is a more drastic model than the Annunaki model.
That involves—whether or not this is a true model or is the model
based on disinformation—involves the existence of a reptilian
race in the fourth density, that is one more density up from us.
They have more control over time, and that density has been
behind the phenomenon of alien abductions.
Now, there are researchers, like Dr. Steven Greer, who believe
that all abductions... the Roper Poll shows that about two percent
of the US population, or about 6 million people, have been
abducted, which is a substantial number of people.
And there are researchers, like Dr. Steven Greer, who believe that
all of the abductions are psy-ops, and are essentially done by
elements of the US government, as psychological warfare both
against the human population and against the ethical
extraterrestrial population, to stigmatize them.
Whether or not that’s true or not, there is certainly evidence that
both small Gray-looking beings and reptilian beings have been
engaged in extraterrestrial abductions of a substantial number of
people, with a high strangeness theme. And these have been with
secret contracts.
KC: Okay. Then let’s do some sort of a summation and I’d like
you [Alfred] to handle that, if you wouldn’t mind.
AW: Okay. Well, first of all I think that we’ve established that
the release of secrecy, we know empirically from yesterday, is a
great consciousness-raising event and it will be the
deconstruction of secrecy, with these great cosmic cycles, that
will mediate a positive human future.
BR: That’s great.
HD/A: A natural, almost natural event.
AW: Yeah.
BR: Arthur, Alfred, thank you so much for spending so much of
your time with us. We’ll continue this conversation later. And we
have to come to an end here because we’ve got no more digits.
And, Kerry, thank you too.
KC: Absolutely. Thank you so much. This has been a fun, but
enlightening event we’ve got going here, and we’re going to
continue this conversation for years to come, I’m sure.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

210
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dr. Steven Greer - The Unknown Agenda
Barcelona, Spain, July 26, 2009
--- The fact that you and I are still breathing the free air of Earth is
abundant testimony to the fact that these civilizations are not
hostile. -Dr Steven Greer talks to Art Bell on “Coast to Coast AM” 8
August 2004 [read full interview at end of this interview]
Dr Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project is almost too well-
known in the UFO research community to require an
introduction. His ground-breaking Press Conference, in
Washington in May 2001, was one of a number of influential
factors which inspired us to found Project Camelot five years
later. Our intention was to support his initiative and add further
momentum, and information, to the disclosure moment at a grass-
roots level.
Yet, all was not well. Whenever a correspondent wrote to Steven
Greer asking him about Project Camelot, they received a
standard letter back from his office stating that Project Camelot
was disinformation. And despite being extremely accessible on
the UFO Conference circuit over the last three years, we had
never once had the chance to meet or speak with him.
Since we were all attending the Barcelona Exopolitics Summit
in July 2009, we were looking forward, at last, to the opportunity
to talk. More than one person in his entourage was also
supportive of our meeting, as they themselves had been following
Camelot's work for long enough to know that our intentions were
honorable.
However, Steven Greer ignored us, and declined to appear at the
pre-conference panel discussion which we had been specifically
invited to Barcelona to moderate. Disappointed, we attended his
main conference presentation and heard him state explicitly (as
he has done on many public occasions) that all the ET visitors
were friendly.
In response to this, we made a statement on the 'What's New'
section of our site, making clear our disagreement and that this
unilateral position was, in our informed opinion, dangerous and
premature:
On Dr Steven Greer:
211
We listened to his presentation today and
learned that he is stating to the world that the
secret government has no ongoing dealings with
any ET races -- the worst kind of disinfo. He is
also telling people that ALL ETs and
interdimensionals are positively oriented -- in
other words STO (service-to-others) -- and this
is also false. Many are friendly... but some are
hostile.
The trouble with this type of approach is that it
leaves the fate of Earth and humanity vulnerable
to take over and interference by races who do
not have our best interests in mind (or heart). In
doing so, he ignores the critical issue of
sovereignty for humanity and this planet within
the galactic community.
We do not agree with Greer's position and
consider this dangerous and insidious.
As a final statement, we were disappointed to
learn that our interview request was declined by
him: it would have been an interesting and
valuable conversation.
--Kerry
We had only weeks previously been explicitly told by Dr Pete
Peterson that most ETs were friendly, but some were not, and that
was the main reason why he continued to do work for the US
Government. We spent two full days talking with Dr Peterson on
this and other subjects: his statement was compelling to us, and
rang true.
After we had stated our opinion on our site, we were approached
by Dr Greer's PR representative and were informed that he would
do an interview. What you see here was hastily arranged, for
which we apologize. We needed to catch the moment while it
was available.
What you will see in this 70 minute video is an impassioned,
articulate and intelligent discussion which has as its central theme
the most important question that may be faced by the human
race: Can we trust ALL the visitors to Planet Earth? To risk a
simplistic paraphrase, Dr Greer says Yes, and Project Camelot
says Not Necessarily.
The debate is well-informed and vigorous. We thank Dr Greer for
appearing with us, and he gave a good account of himself. And so
did we. Enjoy... and we would like to emphasize again what we
stated clearly in the video: that none of us can know with
certainty the agendas of all the many visiting ET races, and to
presume that one does may be irresponsible and premature.
Informed by what we know, we stand by that view - and we
look forward to further discussion as more information continues
to become available.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
We have entitled it The Unknown Agenda. Few
have tackled Steven Greer as openly and
honestly as this in the public domain. This is part
of the job we do: to ask questions that our
listeners would want us to ask. We care deeply
about the views we expressed and feel they are
of the utmost importance.
--Bill
This is not a conventional interview, but a
contentious, frank exchange of views. It is a
debate on a very important subject. For those of
you who prefer to hear more from Greer where
he is uncontested we encourage you to visit his
website or watch other interviews on YouTube.
Our approach in this interview is purposeful and
we do not apologize for insisting on sharing
equal ground with Greer to discuss this
important subject.
--Kerry
Enjoy...
Start of Interview
Kerry Cassidy (KC): Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project
Camelot.
Bill Ryan (BR): And I’m Bill Ryan. This is Sunday, the 26th of
July, 2009. Have I got that right? I personally want to say that
I’m delighted to be here with Steven Greer.
Of all the people who we get emails asking us to interview, you
are number one on quite a long list. The reason for that is that
people see Project Camelot as continuing to kick the ball that was
kicked off by the Disclosure Project back in 1993. You started
something that we’re doing our best to support you with in terms
of bringing the truth to the world.
Steven Greer (SG): Oh, good. Thank you.
BR: We want to thank you for that.
SG: Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you.
KC: So we have some questions for you, but they might not be
the most comfortable of questions.
SG: Oh, I can take any questions.
KC: Okay. And we’ve heard that you’re not a wilting violet, as
they call it, or whatever. So what we’re wondering here...
because we have different philosophies, I think, and different
approaches, and I think that’s really interesting.
I know that we started out, maybe, at the same place in terms of
we’re taking witness testimony – and certainly you did – and that
tactic was very effective and has stimulated us to go down the
road we went on. We’ve been doing this for a little over three
years now.
212
I just wondered if you have a philosophy that you feel like, or a
trajectory, that brought you from witness testimony to free
energy, and if you could talk a little bit about that road.
SG: Well, obviously the Disclosure Project involves many
elements. One is the disclosure of the fact that we’re not alone.
The other is that there are highly classified projects that have
been run illegally for about 50, over 50 years, dealing with this.
And, number three, you cannot say that this has been kept secret
and it’s real without giving la raison d’etre... Why would
something like this be kept secret?
Now, in the early days it could be argued that, well, there were
religious issues, that the people would panic at the idea that there
was life in outer space... or that there were theological objections.
And in fact these still exist.
I had a junior Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientist say the reason
that some of the information about the ancient structures on Mars
has been withheld is that it would “collapse the foundations of all
orthodox religions in the world.” To which I said: Great!
I mean, it’s time people who think the world’s 6,000 years old
and we rode dinosaurs bareback need to get a life.
BR: We agree with that.
KC: [laughs] Yeah.
SG: Okay, so that was one area. But the largest one... and this is
when everything went deep black in October 1954 – we know it
to the day – was because they had actually figured out, and
mastered, the electromagnetic / gravitic propulsion systems. So
that was 55 years ago.
KC: Right.
SG: Okay, so 55 years ago there was the ability to master those
technologies. And obviously, when the Rockefeller Commission,
that reorganized the Department of Defense and the CIA, was put
together by Eisenhower, what they did was reorganize it in a way
so that these sort of issues were handled under work for other
programs, and aerospace contracting entities, and high-tech
entities, and really took it out of the oversight of the president
and the Congress.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And that’s when it all “went south”and has been that way ever
since.
The reason for that is because, if you acknowledge that UFOs are
real, the very next thing that any bona fide scientist or policy
analyst is going to ask is: Well, how in the hell are they getting
from one star system to another?
And when that question is asked, it will be answered, because we
have people on our team who can answer it in great detail.
BR: Yeah, they’re not going around in rocket ships.
SG: And when that is answered – I’m trying to finish one
thought here – when that is answered, you’re going to then see
the end of oil, gas, coal, nuclear power, all of it. There’s a five-
hundred-trillion-dollar asset base that they’re sitting on and
protecting. Two or three hundred people in corporations in the
world control half the wealth of the planet – the net worth of the
planet.
So the secrecy has to be understood within a larger macro-
economic geopolitical crisis where there’s been accretion of
enormous power in the hands of relatively few people, and that
this has gotten worse, not better, since the gilded age of the
Industrial Revolution’s dawn. It’s actually worse now than it was
in the time of Cornelius Vanderbilt and the Rockefellers. It’s
worse now than it was.
KC: Yeah, I definitely understand.
SG: So that, I think is… And so our focus, as we’ve learned
more and more about the reasons for the secrecy and the kinds of
technologies that are extant, is that we have concluded that it’s
very, very important to be able to bring out those energy systems
– at least what I call the “Level One” systems, the ones that you
could put on a box over here... something about the size of a
coffee table. And I’ve seen these.
Now, of course, seeing them and being able to bring them out and
having people release them is another matter. But I’ve seen them.
They extract energy from... some would call the zero-point
energy field, some would call it the quantum vacuum flux field...
whatever you want to call it. But in the fabric of space-time
around us there’s enormous electromagnetic potential that can be
touched into and brought out, and that is one of the practical
implications of disclosure.
I mean, there are many implications. One is informational, one is
diplomatic contact, and one is the issue of the science and
technology which could transform the planet, get us off of oil,
stop global warming, end the crisis of the have and the have-nots
and the poverty in the world. So that, I think, resonates with
many people.
There are a certain number of people who are interested in
extraterrestrial life. There’s a much larger number of people who
are concerned about the environment, energy crisis, the poverty
in the world, etcetera.
213
KC: So, is what you’re saying that what you were propelled
towards is the latter? Because I know your emphasis is now
really free energy, or it seems to be.
SG: No it isn’t. No, no, no.
KC: Well, it seems to be. Maybe I misunderstand…
SG: You need to not mis-state my priorities. Let me be very
clear on this. We have three programs going on with equal bore –
equal bore – simultaneously.
KC: Oh, really? Okay.
SG: Number one is CSETI, the Center for the Study of
Extraterrestrial Intelligence, which is an interplanetary,
interstellar, diplomatic initiative. That was the founding entity
and it’s still the primary focus.
The second is the Disclosure Project. That started as Project
Starlight when I was briefing the CIA director and the Clintons
and all these people.
It then evolved into the Disclosure Project when Clinton said: I
won’t do it because I’ll end up like Jack Kennedy. And the
Congress people that we met with said: This is too big a fish for
us to reel in. We’re not going to do it.
So it kind of devolved onto our shoulders. Then that’s why we
did in 2001 – to correct the date – the National Press Conference
event and the Disclosure Project. And that still continues. We still
continue to do that.
Then the third is the OrionProject.org and the focus on trying to
identify people who have an understanding of these new physics
and sciences so we can bring out some of the practical
applications.
KC: Okay.
SG: So those three things are going on with equal bore. We have
teams of people working on all of them.
KC: Oh, I see.
SG: I’m sort of the coordinator or head of those three projects,
but they’re interrelated. They’re actually three sides of a pyramid
or whatever... not pyramid, but three sides of one entity and three
facets that are interlocking.
KC: I had a misunderstanding. Part of the reason is because…
SG: No, that’s good that you brought it up because a lot of
people do have that misunderstanding.
KC: …we get a newsletter. The Orion Project, or however you
refer to it, newsletter comes into my inbox and it is, you know,
exclusively talking about more of the free energy side of things.
So it’s a misconception, you know, but is out there, as you say.
It’s very interesting to hear that you’re continuing these other…
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
SG: Yeah. And people have to understand... You know people
say: What about disclosure?
I say: We have the testimony of 110 of these military witnesses
out there. We have DVDs and other materials and books out
there with thousands of pages of government documents.
We have put this positive proof and testimony out there and that
then has launched a worldwide disclosure movement in many,
many countries, as you know.
KC: Mm-hm.
SG: At this point, when we started that endeavor, it was 30 or 40
percent of the public thought these were real. Now it’s 80
percent. Some countries – in polls that they did recently here in
Spain it was 90-some percent – think that we’re not alone and
ETs are real.
So we feel that the big over-arching strategy of establishing that
fact happened. What has not happened is, at least within
America, an official acknowledgement of the issue and the
ending of the secrecy. But this is due to a complex problem that I
work on behind the scenes, for that’s where the problem is.
The problem is within Majestic. And the problem is within
conventional political leaders and the military-industrial
complex.
When we started this effort I had about a third of this Majestic
group who thought what we were doing was something they
would support. Now it’s 70 percent. Now the other 30 percent
would probably like to see me dead.
But the point is – and they’re vicious – there are 70 percent of
them now who are really lining up. This includes the elements
within Majestic that are in Europe, that are within the Masonics,
that are within a lot of secret organizations that are fed up with
the secrecy and know that we’re at the end of how far we can
take this silly game of secrecy and secret power.
So a lot of the work that I’ve been doing, and it has directly to do
with disclosure, has to do with trying to fix that highly
dysfunctional dynamic which cannot be ignored.
You cannot pretend like those lions aren’t out lurking in the
jungle. You don’t have to capitulate, but you have to try to
educate them and give them another vision.
One thing I say to the people is that people who are addicted to
secret power, it’s... Kissinger once said power is the ultimate
aphrodisiac... that then the secret power would be that on steroids
and Viagra and every other thing – quite blunt.
And so, one of the real issues becomes what can you… You can’t
just take away. You have to give.
So my job is to try to also give some of these leaders, both
conventional leaders and people who are within these classified
projects, a new vision – a vision that can guide the world out of
its current direction, into a path of peace, safety, justice, free
214
energy, and a whole new transformation of our civilization on
this planet – very quickly.
Because, you know, we’ve run out of time, in my opinion. I don’t
think we have another 50 or 100 years to fritter away.
KC: As it happens, neither do they. I mean, what we get from
our secret witnesses and from people that are exposed to the
Illuminati philosophy constantly is that our time is running out, in
terms of…
Like, we just heard from a secret witness – and I’m running this
by you to hear whether this coincides with what you know – that
there is around ten months left of food before it runs out on the
planet, and that there’s another three to four years’ worth of
oxygen.
I mean, I don’t know if this is down to the minute or not, or
whether it's more vague than it was stated to me, or more... You
know, where you would fall in that category, in terms of how you
understand that.
SG: Let me say that there are a lot of… My father-in-law used to
famously say: Paper does not refuse ink; and in the modern era,
that the computer screen does not refuse digits. So, in other
words, anything can be said.
Now, one has to… My own assessment of that is that there are
competing interests that try to use whatever axis that they have to
provide a certain paradigm that is highly eschatological. The
eschatological axis within Majestic is a very powerful one.
I remember meeting with a member of a Royal Family in Europe
back in the ‘90s and his entire purpose in providing funding to
abduction researchers was to – and I know who they are, all the
mainline ones – was so that they would put the information out to
the public so that the public would learn to hate enough of the
aliens so that we could have an interplanetary war, which would
be the Armageddon that would precipitate the return of Christ.
KC: Yeah, we’ve heard this.
SG: Now, this was a very specific Opus Dei perspective and that
is really what is driving… It’s like Ahmadinejad in Iran saying
that, well, it’d be okay if we went to nuclear war with
Israelbecause that would force this Twelfth Imam, which is their
return of their Christ, to return to Iran.
KC: Sure.
SG: So this eschatological end the world perspective is…
KC: So you’re actually saying... Just to cut to the chase here,
you’re saying that this man’s testimony, to what I just said about
ten months and four years, is basically him being programmed by
the controllers, in a certain sense.
SG: Well, it’s “through a glass dimly”. In other words, yes,
we’re headed for a crisis. Yes, we’re headed towards a hiatus,
can I call it that, in the situation.
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But what they don’t understand is that it is the end of one era and
the opening of another. It isn’t the end of life on Earth. It is not
going to be the end of the human race on this planet. These are
all…
KC: We would certainly agree with that.
SG: This is… And so the conflation of certain misinterpreted
spiritual traditions, whether it’s from the Book of Revelations or
elsewhere, or the Mayan calendar and 2012, has created this sort
of eschatological juggernaut – which is very Scientological, it’s
very Majestic, and it has a lot of underpinnings within the
philosophy of why the secrecy has continued on like it is.
This is one major axis of why the secrecy is continuing. The
other one is the technological and money and control, the macro-
economic control of the planet.
My point to people is that... For example, now I’ve been doing
this for 19 years and I’ve had… You know, if you brief the CIA
director you’ve had some good access, and that’s 16 years ago.
My family put the first man on the Moon. So I have had access to
people within classified projects for a lot of my life.
For example – and I know that we’re going to probably disagree
on this because I saw what you wrote on your blog after my talk
last night – there are people who have been exposed to what they
wanted them to see. This Bob Lazar was one that they then allow
to speak out.
Now the question is: What’s the agenda behind that allowing?
I have had more than a dozen people who have worked in
facilities in Dulce and in Pine Gap in Australia and other places
where they have actually been growing the Gray and Reptilian
species that people think are ETs.
And the people who’ve been in the projects think they’re working
alongside an alien – and they’re not. They’re absolutely what are
called nano-bio-machines and they are Programmed Life Forms.
There is no question that that is going on.
So the larger question becomes: If someone comes up to you with
just an empirical observation, what is it they’re seeing?
Now I’m going to cross over into something even more
controversial.
We have some people at Lockheed, and another program... I can’t
say where it is but it’s in the South in an underground facility,
and its chief scientist is someone I knew very well.
They have developed electromagnetic systems where they can
put someone into a state, and they can go into – and this gets into
a cosmological, complex discussion now – a lower astral, or
denser astral field. And some would call this demonic.
They can actually see beings and creatures there and bring them
in three-dimensional and materialize in flesh and blood – through
these electronics.
215
So a lot of these things that people are seeing have nothing to do
with interstellar and extraterrestrial.
So when I’m talking... when I talk about the interstellar
civilizations that also have transdimensional capability... You
can’t go through interstellar space at the speed of light or less.
KC: Right.
SG: But there’s a cosmological indigestion happening within
Ufology and disclosure that I find disturbing because people are
conflating interdimensional with extraterrestrial with PLFs, that
are Programmed Life Forms, man-made.
All of this is being put together as if it is one thing, and it isn’t.
It’s, unfortunately, much more complex than this. This is exactly
why…
BR: We would agree with that as well. It’s very complex.
SG: This is why, when Martin Cannon, back in the late ‘80s, put
together a 2000-footnoted paper and collection proving the
military-human involvement with abductions, and that the
creatures they were using were not ET... It wasn’t some alliance
between Majestic and these ETs. The ETs wouldn’t bother with
’em.
Now, I say they’re aliens, but they’re not extraterrestrials. Okay?
And now we’re getting into… and people say I’m being cheeky.
I’m not, because these are very bizarre creatures. Some of them
even… I’m going to take it one step further.
You’ve all heard of Roswell, and you’ve all heard that there have
been a number of electromagnetic weapons systems that have
targeted and knocked down interstellar vehicles... not at a great
kill rate in the early days. – I hate to use the words kill rate. It’s
terrible. – But it’s become more and more efficient since SDI,
and since the ‘90s, particularly in the last five or ten years.
What happened, however, in the early days... They had enough
crude stuff. And of course, we had things like the Philadelphia
Experiment – which did not happen in Philadelphia. It happened
in Rhode Island. That was just a cover story... that’s another
whole discussion.
But that was in the ‘40s. So there were very advanced electronics
that were already being used. And by the time the extraterrestrials
showed up when we were detonating nuclear weapons, we were
able, at Roswell, at our only nuclear bomb squadron, to have one
of these weapons and a radar dome, or configuration, that caused
the two of those to crash.
KC: Right.
SG: There were bodies on that. Some of them were living, and I
have a witness who actually handled one of the living ones as late
as 1950-’51 here in Virginia not far from where I live, at Camp
Pearry [spells] P-E-A-R-R-Y, a very top secret facility. [Ed note:
Greer means Camp Peary, Army experimental training center
near Williamsburg]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Now, what’s interesting is that that genetic material from some of
those bodies has subsequently been cloned, from a number of
different species.
Now, you know, I have a daughter with a Ph.D. in neuroscience
and genetics from the most prestigious university in the world.
What I’ve done is, I’ve looked at this, sort of... What the current
state of neuroscience is in the non-classified world is that if they
wished to, they could take cells from a human and clone them.
Absolutely.
BR: Sure.
KC: Yes.
SG: Now, imagine what has existed within the classified world,
because these were the people who were the… These were the
humans who were the spiritual descendants of Mengele and the
Nazis, Wernher von Braun and that whole cell.
KC: You’re talking about the scientists.
SG: The scientists who were brought into these classified
projects, and who were at the foundation of the CIA and the early
space program. So the highly compartmented programs that deal
with this issue…
KC: Yeah.
SG: And this is the thing: Everyone talks about antigravity and
this and that, but what they forget are the enormous advances that
have happened between the early ‘40s and now in genetics and
bioengineering and neuroscience.
Those have gone into application where they now have created
these creatures that people think: Oh, that’s an extraterrestrial. I
say: It is NOT an extraterrestrial!
So the whole thing has deliberately become confused so that
people will make an assessment that there are the good aliens and
the bad aliens.
And if we step into that “cowboys and Indians” mindset, they can
then divide the human race into another war footing that will
fulfill the Majestic plan that was hatched in the ‘50s, that will
take us, as Douglas McArthur said in his last address to the
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Congress, to interplanetary war, which is the World War III they
want.
KC: Right.
SG: So most of retail UFOlogy – I would say 90-plus percent of
it – has embedded within it this message and this information and
these images for the purpose of Majestic. Now, I think people do
it completely innocently because…
KC: Right.
BR: I want to ask a direct question here because this is personal,
and I haven’t said this on camera before. So here we go. I’m an
abductee, and I’m a mountaineer. I was abducted out of my tent
in December, 1981 in the Himalayas on the slopes of Makalu,
which is in Nepal on the border of Tibet. And that wasn’t done by
the military.
This was done in December, in winter in the Himalayas. I was
taken out of my tent, floated over the glacier in the middle of the
night and it was minus 40 degrees. This wasn’t the military who
were doing that. They couldn’t do that.
SG: I’m not saying all contact has been military. I’m being very
specific. I’m saying that there’s enough… Let’s look: If you have
a nugget of gold and you dump a whole bunch of fool’s gold on
it…
BR: Sure.
SG: …and no one’s doing an assay. And the question becomes:
What part of it is extraterrestrial, what part of it is
interdimensional…
KC: Exactly.
SG: …what part of it is manmade? And what part of it is some
mixed-up, where people...?
And here I’ll make it a little more complicated. There are people
who’ve had ET contact and when these classified projects find
out about it they will then target them for an abduction so that
their paradigm and their perception of this will become confused.
This is…
KC: Okay. I think what happens here... We are aware of this
level that you’re talking about. We’re aware of all these different
dimensions because we’ve basically... (“dimensions” – not
dimensions, but “dimensions of this argument”) ... because we’ve
been exposed to these levels by different secret witnesses, okay?
But, and I think if we have a disagreement, what it is, is... I don’t
know if it’s completely, you know? It’s not an either/or question.
It’s a how much? It’s a percentage, as you say.
It’s going to be: Is there, sometime, abductions that are ET-
related that are real ET-related – okay? – and handled by a
certain group of ETs? Is there a MILAB element to it, and is that
maybe the largest portion? Highly probable. Okay?
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But is it exclusively that there are only good ETs? I think that
when you extrapolate that, that’s where I have a problem.
SG: I think the problem is with the caricature of the…
KC: Because I think that that’s, philosophically, a problem of a
limited way of looking at reality.
SG: No, I think the problem is a Manichaen view that has to
divide entire species into good and bad. This is precisely what
Hitler did when he would say, you know, the Jews are bad and
they’re dirty and they’re this… I think we have to be extremely
careful…
KC: I don’t think it’s necessary to do that quite so much as it is
in terms of the overall… I mean, were talking universes. Okay?
We’re talking multiple species out there that go beyond this solar
system, certainly…
SG: Oh, I’m very aware of that.
KC: …and we’re talking about life in general, okay, so…
SG: But the point is that…
KC: I don’t think we can sit here and make a statement like what
I heard you say on stage yesterday, which was: There are no bad
ETs. I mean, how absurd.
SG: No, I think you could say that there is no evidence that the
planet has been invaded by hostile – is the word I used –
civilizations that have an intent…
KC: So far, to you; that you have not… In other words…
SG: You can’t prove a negative. This is axiomatic. What I can
say…
KC: Well, then we have a problem. [laughs]
SG: You can’t prove a negative.
KC: In other words, that’s the point.
SG: No, no. But it is the point. You can’t prove a negative, but
what you can do is go with the evidence that you do have.
One of the sets of evidence we have through CSETI, which has
gone around the world and made contact all over the world with
thousands of people... We have never had a harmful event
happen. We have never had anything resembling anything that
has frightened or harmed anyone on the contact team.
On the other hand, we have had members of our team that have
been targeted with these psychotronic-related military-type
abduction events, including myself.
KC: Right. I agree.
217
SG: So, what I have to go with is the evidence that I have. I also
know that there’s the stage craft, to use an Institute for Strategic
Studies document that I have, that talks about the stage craft of
abductions because of its psychological warfare value to the
agenda of an Us versus Them Manichaen worldview that would
redound to the benefit of the military-industrial complex. So this
is very circular.
I think that what I’m saying is one has to be very careful if you’re
going to be involved with disclosure and contact in saying: This
group is bad, this group is good.
We’re good and we’re bad. And we’re slipping right back into
the Israelis versus the Palestinians, the Jews versus the
Christians, the Muslims versus the whatever…
KC: Okay, but this is not where we’re going…
SG: But if you say that there are bad aliens that are working with
a secret government, then…
KC: The language is actually Service to Others versus Service to
Self, and that, in itself, is also a matter of degree. So it’s not
really good. Anyone…
SG: But you can’t judge. See, here’s the problem.
KC: Well, none of us can. That’s my whole point here.
SG: Well, that’s my whole point!
KC: It’s a matter of degree.
SG: And I think before one starts going down the path of The sky
is falling! and we start unleashing this Manichaen worldview of
Here are the ones that are Service to Others and here’s the ones
that are selfish... I would say that there’s some enlightened self-
interest everywhere.
KC: Right.
SG: And let’s back this up just a little further. Let’s say that
these civilizations…
KC: Especially by the invaders.
SG: By the who?
KC: [laughs] If there’s an invasion race, then enlightened self-
interest is going to be the predominant model by which they’re
going to operate, right?
SG: And, you know, you’re entitled to that. I think you’re…
KC: I’m positing. All I’m doing here… Look, until it actually
happens in black and white…
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SG: Look, where have they invaded? Who has been invaded?
And here’s the…
KC: There is evidence. In other words, you can get evidence on
both sides of the question.
SG: Well, but to characterize it as an invasion... What if there is
an interstellar group that have different… Different ones of them
have different functions. For example…
KC: Right.
SG: Okay, I’m going to take this a little further. There’s one
group that has a very specific function. You might call this the
Noah’s Ark function, that this planet is under tremendous
environmental stress. We’re losing thousands of species and
plants and animals.
I have spoken with people about the landing in Provence, of this
ET craft in a lavender field, and there were these little ETs out
picking lavender. It sounds hilarious. What were they doing?
BR: Just like the movie, yeah.
SG: Absolutely happened and it left physical trace. Could there
be a human genome project that’s trying to protect the human
genome and a genome project for Gaia, the Earth?
There could be all kinds of things going on that are beyond our
ability to say: That’s happening by people who are selfish and
invaders. And that’s happening by people who are the good ones.
KC: Exactly. Yes.
SG: I think that that sort of dichotomy and dualism that I read on
your blog is the exact script that Majestic would want people to
buy into to support interplanetary war. I think that there is
another…
KC: Yeah. I think that the paranoia over interplanetary war per
se, and that scenario, is laudable, okay. In a certain way we
understand that you’re coming from a heartfelt perspective when
you talk about Let’s not get caught up in polarities. Okay?
But what we don’t want to do is analyze this scene, this scenario,
and the realities that are out there, and say we’ve come to
definitive statement where we can say: There are only good ETs.
Now, let me tell you why that’s dangerous as well, because what
that does is leave people, humans, and humanity possibly in
general, in a vulnerable position. They are then going around
following ET like the Pied Piper down whatever road they’re
taken.
SG: No. I’ve always said, and unfortunately you haven’t read my
books and things, but…
KC: Actually I have.
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SG: Well, I have made it very clear that there are two things that
are equally dangerous – the deification of these visitors or the
demonization of them.
KC: Exactly.
SG: Both are equally dangerous, and I’ve said this since the ‘90s.
KC: Then we’re in agreement. But what you said on stage was
not that.
SG: I didn’t deify them and I didn’t demonize them. My point is
that we’re living in a universe together; we’re going to have to
live together in that universe.
KC: Absolutely!
SG: The solutions are not going to be name-calling and We’re
better than you are and Those are in service to self and Those in
service to others and this whole thing.
I think we have to look at this from a much larger picture, and
that is not only Earth, but the whole cosmos is going through a
quantum moment.
KC: Right, that’s true.
SG: It is not just an Earth moment. It’s a universal moment…
KC: Okay.
SG: …the hallmark of which is universal peace, the hallmark of
which is that. And so it is also true...
KC: The ideal would be...
SG: ...that interstellar civilizations are not allowed to leave their
biosphere until they have become in agreement for peace. Now,
and…
KC: That’s an assumption.
SG: This has been proven, because if these civilizations…
KC: No way. Nothing’s been proven on this planet to that degree
of sophistication. There’s no way…
SG: Well, if they were here and they were invading and they
were hostile, they would not have waited for us to have the kind
of weapons we have today. They would have absolutely shut this
civilization down in 1945.
KC: On the contrary... I mean, we have to actually get into a
whole socio-political look at what it is to be an ET space-faring
culture in search of planetoids or planets, and building new
environments, and then what you do with them.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
In a sense, you can actually take the Earth as a microcosm and
you can look at How did it go when we took over different
continents here…
SG: Yeah. But see, this is the whole problem…
KC: …and what was the model? Then we get to space and we
also have to figure…
SG: This is a huge problem. You’re engaging in an
anthropocentric projection onto interstellar civilizations…
KC: As above, so below. In other words…
SG: Well, so in your belief. But I think that you’re completely
involved in this.
KC: All I’m saying is that we’re part of the universe and you
can’t eliminate... And there’s no definitive decision on this part.
You’re making absolute statements.
SG: Do you think our classified projects have traveled
interstellar yet?
BR: Yes.
KC: Absolutely.
SG: They have not.
KC: We’ve got evidence that they have.
SG: Well, I’d love to see you prove it.
BR: We don’t have evidence but in May 2001 you said that they
have superluminal capability.
SG: Yes.
BR: What have we done? Gone to Pluto with superluminal
ability? It takes five seconds.
SG: No, because they’re not allowed to use it. Now here’s
something that… There is a quarantine on this planet until we
become peaceful. This is why, if you look at…
KC: There is a philosophy that there’s a quarantine.
SG: No. There is. If you look at even what Neil Armstrong said
after…
KC: Why? Because an ET told you? I mean, really, let’s get
down to it. We’re all in communication with different races…
SG: Well, let’s get back to the cover-up with what Neil
Armstrong was heard saying. It’s in Timothy Good’s book,
Above Top Secret. You can read it.
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BR: Yep.
SG: And I’m sure you have. You’ve read it.
KC: A mind-controlled astronaut is what you’re talking about.
You’re gonna give me testimony from a mind-controlled
astronaut.
SG: No, no.
BR: Let’s hear where this goes. I’m interested.
SG: He said that when... We were basically warned off the
Moon, and that’s why we didn’t continue to go.
KC: And I believe these warnings exist. There has been evidence
that we’re warned off Mars because certain craft have never
made it there, have been shot down, have disappeared, have had
technical problems that haven’t been explained by NASA.
SG: Well, and one can put a xenophobic spin on that. Or one can
say that perhaps there’s a wiser cosmic order that says that until a
civilization reaches a certain amount of civility for the
civilization, and peace, they are not allowed to travel amongst the
stars; that the entry ticket is peace. And I think that is the
situation.
KC: Okay, I understand that’s your philosophy.
SG: No, it’s not my philosophy. It’s what the evidence… This is
not how I started out. This is what I have found to be true from
many different witness testimonies and the observation overall
and accurate…
KC: But our witness testimony would contradict that. So what do
you do with that?
SG: Well, fine, I’d like to speak to them.
KC: Yeah, absolutely, and maybe we’ll have to compare notes.
You know, really, to be honest with you, this is valuable, because
what happens, for better or for worse, is we’re both out there.
We’re both investigating these questions and they are open
questions. Actually, the information has…
SG: They are. But I think it’s rather unhelpful that you go onto a
blog and say that what I’m saying and doing is sinister.
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KC: But I said it was…
SG: I think that, you know, I have never said anything harmful
about you.
KC: It’s insidious. The reason it’s insidious is because…
SG: Insidious and this and that.
KC: …it leaves the Earth vulnerable…
SG: And I think this is exactly the kind of thing, and I’m going
to absolutely... You know, you invited me to an interview.
KC: Sure.
SG: I’m going to provide an interview. If you want to over-talk
everything I say, you can over-talk what I say.
KC: You over-talk us.
SG: But I am telling you that… But I’m being interviewed. So
the point is…
KC: [laughs] It’s mutual. See, you don’t know this and I’m sorry
we didn’t have time to tell you our philosophy of how we
conduct an interview, but I did kind of warn you…
SG: You obviously want to have a debate.
KC: … that we have differences of opinions.
SG: We have differences of opinion, and that’s fine, but I think
the most dangerous thing we can do is with... See, everyone has
partial information.
KC: Right.
SG: To start making sweeping judgments that are negative...
And you can say: Well, it’s not negative. We’re just saying that
they’re in service to self versus service to others, and couch it
however you wish.
But if we go down that path, we’re already creating a new
cosmological Us versus Them, which is the absolute
recapitulation of the mistake on Earth for the last 10,000 years. I
think we can do better than that. I think we have to learn to look
at these things…
And let’s say that everything that your philosophy and how
you’re viewing this is correct. If it’s a hundred percent correct, I
would still say the path of wisdom is education…
KC: Absolutely.
SG: …elucidation, engagement peacefully, higher states of
consciousness – all of this.
BR: Yep.
220
SG: I don’t think it consists in characterizations, name-calling,
what have you. Now that goes on on the diplomatic front and
between nations on the Earth, and I think we have to be very
careful not to engage in that sort of anthropocentric projection of
the current state of duality of the human condition on these
visitors. I think it may be much more difficult to make those
kinds of assessments.
But if we go down that path, what we’ll be doing is that we’ll be
dragging the baggage of the old era into this pivotal time, this
embryonic time, where we’re trying to transition to a new
civilization – the hallmark of which will be universal peace.
I don’t think we’re going to be going into a period of time of
competing planetary systems having wars. I think that this is – all
of that – is the Scientological view and it’s many of the
eschatologists’ view.
I think that actually we’re going to go through a quantum
transformation that’s global and interplanetary that will make this
quite clear in the coming years, if not months.
I think that time is getting very short for how much more time
we’re going to have before there’s this large transformation.
And I think the other thing is to say... I would say to people: If
there is a civilization that is here for their own purely selfish
interest, and have not a shred of altruism or concern for
humanity or Earth, those are the beings I would want to meet
with first.
And I’ve said this for years, because you need a diplomatic
initiative to North Korea and Iran and China more than you do to
Great Britain, if you’re an American, let’s say. So this is…
KC: Absolutely, but you can’t be in denial of the potentiality…
SG: There’s no denial here. I’m not some sort of Pollyanna fool.
And that characterization of me being in denial... I’m not in
denial about anything. I’m just saying that...
KC: Well, I… Wait, wait, wait. You’re personalizing this in a
way that it’s not personal. In other words, what I said is I didn’t
direct it at you. I said…
SG: Jan can give me what you wrote on the blog. I’ll show you
what you wrote on the blog.
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KC: Excuse me. I said that what you said on stage was insidious. BR: We agree.
And it’s insidious because what it does is leave, again,
humanity… Look, let’s both agree here… SG: And moreover, you said that we need to be armed. Well,
yeah. Armed with what? I think that knowledge…
BR: It’s a real misdirect.
KC: That’s the other discussion. We can talk… That’s spiritual.
KC: We both love…
SG: It is spiritual, and this is the chief purpose of CSETI.
BR: It’s a real misdirect.
KC: Knowledge is to question constantly. What we’re not
SG: [to Bill] [unclear] positing is answers here, so much as Let’s keep exploring.

BR: It’s a misdirect. And at no point do we decide that “all ETs are good” because
suddenly we have a paradigm that says: You cannot leave the
KC: We both love humanity. We’re both here to make sure that planet beyond a certain point unless you believe in “peace” and
we make it through this next era. Okay? unless you have obtained a certain level of civilization.

SG: Right.
KC: And we can say we have a common goal, in that sense.
SG: Absolutely.
KC: When I say it’s insidious, I’m not saying you personally are
insidious. What I’m saying is what you’re saying leads to an
insidious state of affairs if people out there were to become
disarmed and completely vulnerable and allow, like I said, ET to
take over “the sovereignty” of the Earth and of humanity to
develop…
That means that you are there for good, all good, and therefore
better than humanity. There’s sort of an implication under there.
SG: And your alternative would be what? Conflict with the ones
who aren’t good?
BR: No, that’s polarizing it in a way that we are not.
KC: It’s a model of universes, multi dimensions, that is more
complex.
BR: You’re polarizing it.

SG: This is not at all… I never suggested that. SG: What’s your answer then?

KC: … to develop on its own. But there are implications to what

you’re saying when you say: All ETs are good.

SG: Your implications about that.

KC: When we’re using the words good and bad... Let’s be
honest, we’re using the words good and bad because we have to
use language and we’re just using it in a simplistic way…

SG: Right.

KC: … to cover a very wide spectrum of what it means to be

good, philosophically, and what it means to be bad,
philosophically. We’re not naïve, and we’re not looking at this in BR: My answer…
a black and white way, so let’s not go there.
SG: What’s your answer to these ones that are in service to self?
SG: We have to be very careful because that slips into that very
quickly. That language slips into that paradigm very, very KC: It’s complex. It’s more complex.
quickly.
SG: The ones that you see…
KC: Sure, and it could be misleading. I appreciate that.
KC: There are no limits. Go ahead.
SG: And I think it is misleading, but I think the other thing, that
it’s also very dangerous. I’m not at all suggesting that humans
disarm. My whole message is about humans empowering, not BR: Okay. My response to this is to agree with you that it’s a
only in consciousness, but in organization and every other way. very complex situation and there may be alien agendas that we
are not able to understand. Just like the farmer can understand

221
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what the farmer’s doing, but not what the veterinary surgeon is BR: …irresponsible because he doesn’t know, and you’re
doing. You know? presuming to know…

If you approach a wild animal because you want to give it some
food, the wild animal’s going to run away because it doesn’t trust
the human.
SG: Right.
BR: There are all sorts of aspects to this that we may be very
presumptuous in our ability to understand. But my point is that
it’s dangerous... And I’m not even saying that it’s a deliberate
misdirect, but I do believe it was...
Personally I believe it was a misdirect to lead people to believe,
with the authority position that you have in the UFO community,
that if anybody feels that all… that anything other than All ETs
are friendly, then they’re somehow working on the side of the
Illuminati!
That’s a polarization that’s not true. We don’t agree with that – at
all! We think that there’s a big maybe category, where for sure
some ETs are friendly.
KC: Absolutely.
KC: Exactly.
BR: …and you’re capitalizing on your authority position in the
UFO community and that’s irresponsible. You’re leading people
who are feeding off your words, and you shouldn’t do that. You
should be very…
SG: No, I am totally not irresponsible. I’m trying to do this very
responsibly…
BR: Okay.
SG: …because I know what’s at stake if people are lead into the
path of panic and polarity and duality.
BR: But we’re not doing that.
SG: And this is absolutely the impression…
BR: And you’re giving the opposite impression, saying: Don’t
worry about a damn thing.

BR: I’ve met some of them, personally. SG: No, no.

SG: Right. BR: And that’s equally bad!

BR: I don’t even think that my abduction was ill-intended. I SG: I’m not saying Don’t worry. I’m saying… Let me tell you…
think that this was a program in some way for something, which
I’m doing now. You may have had a parallel experience. BR: Okay.

But I don’t know what’s happening. I’m willing to roll with that KC: Why not just enlighten awareness.
wave, because I don’t think they intended any harm to me. But
they sure as hell weren’t military. That wasn’t a MILAB SG: Can I answer any of this?
operation.

BR: Do it. Go on.

SG: No, but my point is… Here’s what I said.

SG: It’s too long…

BR: But we don’t know these things. We don’t know…

KC: [laughs] I think you’re answering it. I think you’ve been

SG: My point is that there’s no evidence that these visitors are answering, but go ahead.
hostile…

SG: Is that? Because no, you haven’t heard my answer yet. My

BR: Sorry. Give me 20 seconds, yeah? answer is what I consistently say, is that there’s no evidence that
they’re hostile and that we have to be in an armed position, in a
KC: Actually, there is… Star Wars SDI position. And that dealing with it in that way is the
last thing that we should be doing.
BR: But we don’t know – hang on. We don’t know, but neither
do you. And you shouldn’t say that you know and you don’t. BR: I agree with that.
That’s my point.
SG: So, whether or not…
SG: Well, actually…
KC: [unclear]
KC: Yeah, let’s get to the place where, you know, the fact is…
SG: Let me finish.
SG: I’m saying there is…

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BR: Wait a minute.
SG: I cannot say that there is… You can’t prove a negative. I’ve
said this three or four times. I can go with the evidence I’ve seen.
Moreover, I can go with the experience of 19 years, of thousands
of people in CSETI expeditions and experiences we’ve had with
these visitors... none of which has been fearsome, negative,
invasive. None of this sort.
The other point that I have to make is that if it were true that
there were civilizations that had self-interest and were going
around the cosmos colonizing and invading different worlds or
planetoids or what have you, then I would say that those are the
civilizations we need to find a way to engage. And it isn’t going
to be down the barrel of a laser weapon or an electromagnetic
pulse weapon.
BR: True.
KC: I think you’re making a jump. I mean, I have to say here...
SG: Let me finish. I haven’t finished my answer.
KC: You’re making a jump to Star Wars from us just saying
there may be ETs with some self-interest guiding their paradigm.
SG: Well, but let’s take a step back from humanity for a moment
and look at this through the eyes… Let’s say there is a
civilization like you’re describing.
BR: What civilization are we describing?
SG: The ones that you think are not in service to others, but in
service to self.
BR: We think they may have agendas that are not necessarily in
our interest. That’s not a polarized position.
KC: Right.
SG: Right. But let’s say that’s the case…
KC: And it doesn’t mean we want to shoot them in the head,
either.
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SG: Okay, but let’s say that’s true. I don’t think it is true but
maybe I’m wrong. It’s possible, I mean. I don’t pretend to know
everything. Maybe I’m wrong.
But let’s say that’s true. What might have instigated that?
Now, let’s go back 100 years. We’re in horse-and-buggies and
rifles and things. My grandmother, born in the late 1800’s post-
reconstruction South, saw her son design the Lunar Module, put
the first man on the Moon, and now her grandson doing what I’m
doing.
We’ve gone from horse and buggies to the capacity for
interstellar travel and antigrav, and dematerialization and
transdimensional technologies, from gunpowder and the early
stages of the Industrial Revolution. At the same time we’ve gone
from rifles and machine guns to thermonuclear weapons.
Is it a coincidence that the sort of Pandora’s Box that opened
when we started detonating thermonuclear weapons was because
it was having an effect beyond just the Earth, transdimensionally?
Is it possible that the trajectory they saw our civilization going
on, these ones you think may not have our best interest in heart,
may have seen us going on a trajectory that, if it continued on
that trajectory would lead to us going into their neighborhood
with weapons of mass destruction, with our unchecked simian
tendency towards war-making and what have you?
So, I’m trying to say let’s look at this for just a moment through
another perspective that’s non-human, if we can. It’s very
difficult because we are human. I think…
KC: I met Robert Solace. He watched the craft fly over, okay? In
Montana, the missile silos, and turn them off. I’ve talked with
him in his house about these experiences, as you have in your
Disclosure Project…
SG: Right.
KC: We’re totally on the same page on that. There’s no doubt
whatsoever that they came and they are absolutely adamant that
this technology not go... first of all, not happen on the Earth…
SG: It would destroy the planet.
KC: …but second of all, not go beyond. It’s actually
interdimensional in its destructive ability.
SG: Correct. Yes, I’m very aware of this.
KC: So, I think we’re in agreement on that.
SG: In other words, what kind of hornets nest did we pick? And
therefore, what kind of provisions and things are going on as a
consequence of that? So, I always say…
You know, everyone starts getting into the, oh, This alien agenda
and That alien agenda, and I would say: What would be more
constructive is that the human agenda be fixed. That we learn to
live on this planet and fix…
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: No disagreement there.
SG: …fix our own home. Create a peaceful civilization rather
than worrying about other motives from other civilizations.
Here’s what I predict. I predict that if we were to do that, and
learn to live together without clubbing each other over the head
and killing each other on this planet – as below, so above – that
we would see a change, perhaps, in the cosmic order for that
reason.
So, rather than engaging in debates and speculation about the
agenda, perhaps harmful aliens and this and that, I would say
why don’t we create a civilization of abundance and of peace and
of enlightenment here? And go into space with that intent and see
what the response to the cosmos will be then?
It may be the response that we’re getting now is a directly
proportional response, karmically and otherwise, to what we have
been doing to each other.
KC: Absolutely. We are attracting... like a mirror.
SG: You know, in the last 100 years we have killed 160-million
of our own fellow humans. I think that if you reflect on that...
And I was seeing an interview with Robert McNamara towards
the end of his life where he was reflecting on the terrible mistakes
he made in Vietnam and the other wars of the 20th century.
What I think is that there needs to be a sort of Let’s look at
ourselves and I think that many times…
KC: But let’s not do that to the exclusion. It’s not an either/or
question. In other words, what I hear you saying is let’s be a little
more sort of Earth-centered in our view of reality and not worry
about the agendas of those other beings out there. And let’s
concentrate on building our nest and making it a good, healthy
place, and playing nice with each other. There’s no disagreement
with that.
SG: No, it’s not either/or. I’m saying let’s do that. That’s why
we’re doing the OrionProject.org.
KC: We have absolutely no disagreement with that.
SG: That’s why we’re also doing the contact, diplomatic effort.
And we invite all these… We always invite all these civilizations
to make contact.
KC: But actually you’re assuming that there’s no intervention
going on. And I think this is getting to the root of the question. In
other words, do you know about screen memories? You must
know about them if you’ve been as deep as you have.
SG: Well, yeah, the psychotronic programs that have been in
existence for many years…
KC: All right, because you obviously have a positive view of all
your interaction. And, you know, not to get personal on this level,
but to say that if I meet a being who thinks they’ve only had
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positive interactions with certain ETs or animals or whoever they
are, then I might look at that person and I might question...
This is my issue – I might question whether or not that person
really knows what they’re having because they might be screen-
memoried and they might actually be having some negative
interaction in there and not know it. Now, obviously I’m not…
SG: So you’re back to the positive and the negative and the
polarity…
KC: But we live in a 3-D level and we are moving to the 4-D…
SG: And see, this is... The whole point is that…
KC: Actually it goes beyond that, so don’t interrupt me, because
I want to finish here.
SG: I don’t think it’s that simple.
KC: Absolutely, and we agree on that. It is very complex.
SG: Right.
KC: We’re multidimensional beings. We live on lots of different
levels. We are spiritual beings first…
SG: Mm-hm.
KC: …and humans second. Okay? We actually are just
inhabiting these human bodies at the moment, in my view. Okay?
SG: Correct. Short-term lease.
KC: I have had a number of Samadhi experiences myself, so I
totally know where you’re coming from with that, and I
appreciate that. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is
extremely complex, this picture of what’s going on here.
None of us have all the answers, and to make definitive
statements that we feel you are making out there – okay? – and to
actually limit... to put blinders on to such an effect to say: There
is nothing to be worried about, at all, humans out there. Just
worry about your own little playground. And meanwhile, out
there, are...
Because I got to tell you, if you’re aware of psychic and you have
psychic perception, you know there are entities that do not have
bodies that are negatively oriented. Now “negative,” again,
becomes a judgment. And how do you want to call negative…
SG: Those aren’t extraterrestrial. Now you’re confusing the
whole cosmological…
KC: I’m not confused. On the contrary, I’m using an example…
SG: I’ve never denied that there were those kind of entities...
KC: Okay. Fine.
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SG: But those aren’t extraterrestrial, physical… Some of this
may be definitional.
KC: I know that. Let’s extrapolate from there. I’m simply
focusing, right now, on what you might term a “negative entity”
that doesn’t have a body, and I’m saying…
Or you could even say fire. Now, fire is an entity. It’s a non-… It
doesn’t have a body, and yet it has a power, it can create itself.
So, in a sense you could say it’s negatively oriented if it burns
your house, but on the other hand it could keep you warm.
So by the same token we could find entities that are in physical
bodies – again, spirits having a physical experience – which
could be an ET, it could be us… it’s so multidimensional. Don’t
you see what I’m saying?
SG: Oh, absolutely.
SG: And what my motive is that I’ve got five minutes or less to
save that child’s life. So, all I’m saying is that this sort of
anthropocentric…
KC: It’s a matter of perspective.
SG: … and it is a matter of perspective. I think that’s why I
prefer to be cautious, cautiously optimistic, put out a positive
view on how we should be interacting with this thing. It is not
irresponsible. I am not insidious. I think that these sort of
characterizations are highly offensive, as I have never attacked
you folks publicly.
I found I was attacked on your blog today. It was unfortunate.
But my perspective, I want to be very clear…
KC: No, no. Your philosophy was attacked. You were not
attacked.

KC: In other words, if they are spirits as we are spirits, then they
can be moved by the positive polarity as they could be pulled by
the negative polarity.

It could look, from the dimension of being in this 3-D world that
we’re inhabiting called Earth, in this human body, in this
experience, and how they impact us, could in fact be ultimately
negative to our growth cycle. That is, in fact, something that has
been posited as a very real possibility.

SG: Well, anything is possible. I mean, obviously. I just don’t

see the evidence for that. I do see the evidence for humans killing
each other. I do see weapons in space where we have targeted
these visitors…
SG: Yeah, well, whatever.

KC: I appreciate that.

KC: Actually, you were complimented.

SG: … and all of that. So, I mean, we can talk in circles all day
on this.
KC: Yeah. Sure.
SG: My position is that there has not been an action against the
Earth and humanity from an extraterrestrial, interstellar, physical
civilization to here, that I think would cause us to want to have a
sort of armed conflict response.
Now, are there experiences people have that they interpret as
negative? Absolutely.
SG: But I just have to say that that is why we’re wanting to be
cautious because it is so easy for humans… I mean, look what
happened after 9/11. It is so easy for humans to take shreds of
information and then go on a war footing or go on a conflict
footing.
BR: We agree with you.
SG: This is the inherent danger of some of the things that you’re
saying, is it can shove humanity.
KC: Yeah, okay. I understand.

I’m going to tell you something, and people don’t like to hear
this, but in a major trauma case, if a child comes in and there’s no
time for anesthesia, and I have to put a chest tube in the chest
wall of that child, I must look like the most horrible monster and
devil that ever lived.
My motive is to save that child. My motive is to help that child.
But to anyone seeing it who would just walk in from another
planet or off the street, they’d go: What is that monstrous
doctor… or What are they doing?
BR: You’re doing what you must.
225
SG: Okay. And there’s one thing to have a private conversation
about speculating about the motives and the agendas of the
aliens, but when you start talking to the people of the planet
about this and you start putting out… and positing that there are
these – and to use your word, and the polarity negative and this
and that – this would throw the planet into…
And it would also throw the planet completely into the camp of
Majestic, who for years has been trying to... and has also taken
presidents aside, like Reagan, and tried to convince them of
exactly the argument you’re making so that he would spend
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
hundreds of billions of dollars on SDI. I think this gets into
serious policy issues.
KC: Yeah, yeah.
SG: Okay. And I have responsibilities here that you’re not aware
of. So to say I’m irresponsible... You don’t know what my
responsibilities are. And therefore…
BR: I want to…
SG: No you do not! What I’m saying here is that…
BR: I want to ask a question which is very… I want to take this
back, now. Just wait a second, let’s cool down and I want to just
make an analogy.
Now, an analogy that I sometimes use, and it usually results in
nods of agreement, is that we’re like fisherman on a South Sea
island, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, having believed for
generations that we’re the only people in the whole world.
We’re sitting around a campfire cooking our fish and we’re
trying to figure out: That big metal ship on the horizon, what do
they want with us? That metal bird that keeps on circling around
our island, what are they doing? Is it real? And Did you see it?
And all this kind of stuff.
We’re trying to figure out the intentions, assuming that we
believe in their existence, of these other beings that we’re
suddenly starting to realize might exist in our universe on this
little tropical island.
Now, the problem is that if we really do look at this as a human
situation which is quite real, really, what experience do we have
as South Sea island fishermen to figure out –
Maybe they want to cut our trees down. Maybe they want to save
us because the sea level’s rising and they want to take us to
another island. Maybe they want our minerals, or maybe they
want to convert us to Christianity. Maybe they want to eat us, kill
us, or maybe they want to make friends. How do we know?
The danger is – and this is a question now – the danger is that I’m
here around this campfire with you guys and I hear you saying
those other men in those big ships and those metal birds must be
friendly.
And I’m saying: Wait a minute. We need to be a little bit careful
here because, actually, even though we do get into fights on this
little island every now and then, how do we know we can trust
them? Maybe we can, maybe we can’t. What’s your experience?
That’s an attempt to characterize, by analogy, how complex this
is. That’s why I said that it was irresponsible, as I would do if I
was around that campfire, as an elder of this community saying:
They’ve got to be friendly, we’ve got to trust them, you’ve got to
trust them. This is what the Incas said about the Conquistadors!
SG: Yes, but your metaphor is, again, an anthropocentric
projection onto something that I think is non-applicable.
226
I think that, in addition to that, our... I keep coming back to this.
Not only in my personal experience, but the experience of
hundreds of people, thousands of people, that we have had
involved with our diplomatic contact programs, have not had any
of this sort of experience that would lend us to believe that there
are civilizations that are hostile to the Earth and to humanity.
On the other hand, I have had many sources describe to me the
Programmed Life Forms, the military involvement with hoaxing
abductions, a false-flag operation to create an alien threat that we
can unite against.
So I have to go on the knowledge and the experience I have, and
it isn’t just observing something from afar, because we’ve
actually had contact. We actually have more information than
something just floating up above the island. So the analogy
breaks down very quickly.
And even if there was this potential for one or more of these
planetary civilizations to be of concern to us, my answer would
still be the same:
There needs to be engagement. There needs to be a diplomatic
détente. There needs to be a rapprochement. There needs to be
an enlightened approach to this where we really move out of a
sort of duality that leads to conflict on Earth.
I think that regardless of what your assessment of the agenda, the
path of wisdom and safety is that.
KC: Okay, we don’t disagree with that, okay? Let’s talk about
where we agree…
BR: I agree fully, and it needs to be in the public domain.
KC: I mean, we certainly agree on the end objective. Okay? The
end objective, from our point of view. Okay? We are not part of
the military-industrial complex. Okay?
We’re doing what we do because we believe in truth, because
we’re dedicating our lives. And, indeed, our lives literally have
been in danger because of what we believe. We do it on a daily
basis and you, of all people, should understand this.
SG: Mm-hm.
KC: So we’re not taking this lightly. Our end result is not to be
what they may desire as their ultimate end-game. In other words,
we’re not here to support their end-game and we’re not naïve
about what we’re doing either. So neither of those things is true.
Okay?
We are not trying to promote sort of a fear-based paradigm such
that people get into a place where the only thing they can think of
is to shoot ET in the head, to be graphic, or to allow for space-
based weaponry.
I mean, we basically agree with your philosophy in that way,
wholeheartedly. In fact, I would say, we are dedicating our lives
to that.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
However, on the other hand, we are also not going to sit here and
pretend that we know all the answers. And we’re also not gonna
assume that all contact is positive. On the contrary to what
your…
SG: You’re going to say whatever you think.
KC: Yeah, obviously we are. But in terms of this discussion and
for the reason that we… You know, you’re sort of saying our
blog thing, our posting, you found offensive because we’re
saying... What you’re saying on stage, and again, you’re on
stage. You’re on stage actually more often than we are, far more
often – and I have to say, therefore your responsibility is great.
Perhaps your approach is a bit simplistic in that you are assuming
that if you talk about the potential that there are other things
going on, or a potential for other ways of looking at the question,
that the jump that the whole audience out there is gonna make
immediately is to fear and panic. And that they’re gonna jump on
this bandwagon of the military-industrial complex, and all go out
and grab their guns and knives and want to go shoot ET and fight
with each other and other worlds, and so on. That’s not... In other
words, you’re going from...
SG: But the problem is, is that I’m completely aware that my
position is the minority position. Okay? I’m acutely aware that.
KC: Actually, that’s not true either. I mean, there are plenty of
people out there that are advocating peace and love, and getting
on their cars and jumping up and down: Please, ET, come save us
because you’re all good.
died, been killed trying to help us just before this. It was a terrible
time, actually, for me.
I had a dream. And, of course, I’m human. I was angry. I was
mad as hell at what was happening to us.
I had a dream – I think I was in England doing some crop circle
work – and in the dream there were these giant lions that were
stalking me. They were going to try to kill me. (It’s funny
because Dr. Tom Bearden talks about “the lions” of this cabal,
and I’d never heard him use that term at the time I had the
dream.)
But here were these huge lions, and they were stalking me and
they were going to kill me. And it was this lucid, lucid, full-color
dream.
I didn’t run. I didn’t get angry. I didn’t have hate in my heart. I
opened my heart and went to a place of universal love and
consciousness and I engaged each lion in their eyes.
We were doing this, following each other around, and eventually
they became so engaged with that energy that, even though they
had huge claws and fangs, they actually flipped over on their
back and I was petting them like this, like they were big
pussycats. We had become… It completely diffused that
situation.

SG: No. I would actually challenge you to look at Hollywood,

the UFO community, the books and videos that are out on this
subject. They are overwhelming negative and terrifying. I think
that this is one of the problems.

BR: I don’t think so.

SG: I think that one of the problems is that we have to look at

this with a long view. And the long view, as I see it... And this is
all I can do is go by my own moral compass and what I think is
right. I don’t think I’m irresponsible. I don’t think I’m simplistic,
and all these sort of characterizations.
I think that I have a responsibility to help articulate a path
forward that is wise and that does not redound to further fear and
panic and negativity on this planet, but that moves us forward in
a positive way and that can lead to what I’m certain will be the
future for this planet.
That’s one of, not only world peace, but universal peace and a
wholly, completely new, transformative civilization on this planet
that isn’t thousands of years off or even decades off now. I think
it’s very, very near.
I use that as an analogy of sort of an aikido, spiritually, of the
engagement I’m endeavoring in, both with the public, with
Majestic, with the visitors. That’s what I’m doing.
KC: I understand.
SG: That’s it in summary.
KC: I think that’s a great description of your approach and
what’s motivating you. Thank you very much for that, Steven
Greer.
BR: Thank you for sharing that, Steven.

So, I think that that’s what I wish to articulate. There’s no SG: Thank you.
simplicity to it. It’s actually a rather complex concept. It’s also a
way of engaging spiritually. BR: Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

I want to share a dream I had. I don’t share this very often, but... SG: Thank you.
Back when my friend Shari and I and another member of my
team all got metastatic cancer in the same month and we were all
going to die. She died, but she was still alive. And Bill Colby had

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com

The Orion Project is an organization created to transform the current energy, environmental and social crisis into a world of
sustainability and Enlightened Abundance.

Technological progress in the areas of advanced physics and electromagnetic systems, if appropriately supported, will enable
humanity to live on the Earth with a minimal footprint with genuine long-term sustainability.

For over 100 years, these advanced concepts in energy generation have either been ignored or actively suppressed due to the
power of fossil-fuel based economic and industrial interests.

Why Now?

History is replete with inventors who have discovered and produced amazing clean energy devices. Men like Nikola Tesla, T.
Townsend Brown, Stan Meyer and others have shown us it is possible to have all the power we need without burning noxious
oil, coal, and gas or risking nuclear damage. For 100 years, however, there have been no significant changes in the way we
generate power.

Even now, we continue to pollute and pay large corporations for the power we need to live our lives. We can no longer afford
this "business as usual" attitude. We can not wait for big business to decide to do the right thing on our behalf. We must insist
on having and using new technologies that can turn this energy crisis around - starting right now! We must embrace those
technologies that are clean and sustainable for centuries to come, and supply them to All peoples on the earth - now!

Please send all inquiries to:

info@theorionproject.org

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Transcript of Dr. Steven Greer's Interview
on Coast to Coast AM Radio with Art Bell
August 8/9, 2004
Art Bell (AB): Dr. Greer has been at the front of the parade with
regard to disclosure. Dr. Steven Greer has been the man putting
his life on the line and trying to pull or drag from the
government, or civilians, or pilots, or anybody he can, the
information about what we're going through here on Earth with
unidentified flying objects and one of the reasons - I think, one of
the main motivations - though, he can speak with his own tongue
on this issue is that, if they are there, that means they have a
propulsion system that would free the world from the war for oil.
I mean, you know, basically folks, you can look at many reasons
why we might be at war right now, but oil's got to be somewhere
near the top of the list, equals energy equals if they've got it, we
need it. And I think that's what he's chasing, but I don't know. I'd
like to let Dr. Greer speak for himself. Dr. Greer, you're an
emergency room physician, for goodness sakes.
Steve Greer (SG): Right.
AB: Why are you doing what you're doing?
SG: Well, because we know that the information contained
within this whole subject has the potential for transforming the
direction of the human race right now at this critical time, that the
covert programs running these sort of projects are not only illegal
and rogue, but they're sitting on the solution to much of the
world's problems and I think that we have to realize that until we
demand, and not only demand but also organize ourselves to
bring this information out, we're going to continue on the path
we're on of increasing shortages of oil, oil wars, pollution,
economic chaos, as well as environmental chaos and this is not
necessary. A lot of people see this as an inevitability when in
reality it's a completely artificial situation which we have created
and only we can fix. So, this is really key to this. But the other
part of it of course is that if we are being visited by advanced
civilizations from other realms and other worlds, which I'm quite
certain we are, then we have to ask this very important almost
existential question - who speaks for 'Planet Earth'? Who is
running the show on our behalf, and what are they doing? As the
Brigadier General Lovekin who is one of our Disclosure Project
witnesses said, Eisenhower was very concerned about this in the
late fifties and said, "You know? This whole matter is not going
to be in the best of hands, and so it has turned out to be" - and I'm
quoting. So it's a very important question at this time in our
history that humanity step up to the plate and begin to understand
229
that not only are we not alone, but that there are clandestine
programs that have spent literally hundreds of billions of our tax
dollars to develop advanced energy and propulsion systems and
to study this whole area and yet we are not benefiting from it and
this simply something that can't go on.
AB: All right, Doctor, let me be clear. Are you suggesting that
these energy systems, whether we have back-engineered them
from craft that have crashed, or we have engineered them on our
own, either way, you're convinced that these energy systems,
these propulsion systems - they're real.
SG: Yes.
AB: One way or the other.
SG: Yes, I have no doubt that they are real. We have people who
have actually worked on these programs, we have people who
have worked within the corporate aspect of the covert group
dealing with this and have developed these energy and propulsion
systems. We know that by -- you know that my mother's brother,
my maternal uncle, was a senior project engineer at Grumman
that designed the lunar module and by the time that thing landed
on the moon, we were already test-flying electrogravitic and
magnetogravitic, so-called "antigravity", propulsion systems that
were up flying around. I have a photograph of one of these things
maneuvering in 1964 over Provo, Utah, so - and this was not an
extraterrestrial vehicle. This was one made by the good old U.S.
of A. So here we are still using fossil fuels when we don't need
them. We're in Iraq, we're in the Middle East in places where
we're not wanted. We have our sons and daughters dying on the
battlefield and this is preventable. We need to realize how
important this issue is. This is not just about "little green men" or
something. This is about the way we're living on Earth and what
the future of the human race will be.
AB: That's right, that's exactly right. Now, over the years, you
have encouraged by hook or crook one way or the other, a lot of
people to come forward -- military people, pilots, you know,
credible witnesses, very credible witnesses, and you've been
prepared to meet with Congress and have a gigantic disclosure. In
other words, in essence, the smoking gun accumulation of
evidence that would prove in court all of this is real. That's - in
my view - that's always been, and I've discussed this with you
many times, a somewhat dangerous occupation.
SG: Yes, it's interesting. You know, in 2001, we had the
Disclosure Event at the National Press Club and that was the
most watched press event in the history of the internet, by the
way, and that summer a three-star general told one of our military
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
witnesses that - he said, "You know, this is going to upset some
people. Dr. Greer should be checking under his car for bombs."
AB: That's right.
SG: And I laughed. I said, "Well, I'm not too worried about that."
Because we have other systems in place, which I won't go into
right now.
AB: Are you still laughing?
SG: Uh, yes - I'm not - only in the sense that we are not the kind
of people who get intimidated by threats, and if I was I would
have pulled out of this in 1992 when the former head of Army
Intelligence and other people were trying to push me in that
direction.
AB: Right.
SG: So, my view of it is that we have a responsibility to step up
and do the right thing to get this information out and I have to
remind people that, as recently as a couple of months ago, I was
meeting with a member of Congress who is very good friends
with John Kerry and discussing this whole matter, and in
particular the energy issue as it relates to it, and they were ...
There was enormous interest within Congress. There was
enormous interest in the Clinton Administration. As you know, I
met with very senior people in the Clinton Administration.
AB: I'm well aware, yes.
SG: And yet, the problem is that nobody wants to act. They're not
acting because they're afraid. And we cannot give in to fear. And
I have never given in to fear, and I will never give in to fear.
AB: Well...
SG: Although, those things have been attempted, and I think that
- what I tell people is, that if you understand what's at stake --
look, I'm an emergency doctor. I've taken care of people killed
over 50 cent beers. This is more important than a 50 cent beer.
AB: It sure is.
SG: You can't worry about that. You take adequate precautions.
I'm on the radio tonight with you as a precautionary move, quite
frankly, and I think that the people listening, the millions of
people listening to this right now, need to understand that they
will not stand for this kind of intimidation, that the world
deserves to know the truth and needs to know the truth, and we
cannot let anyone intimidate us otherwise.
AB: All right, well here was an attempt at intimidation. This
phone call came in when, Doctor?
SG: This came in about two or three weeks ago to the CSETI line
outside D.C.
AB: Here it is, Listen carefully:
230
[Playing tape] Recording of voice mail for CSETI number 301-
249-3915 recorded message dated July 19, 2004. The time is
12:35 A.M.
"Stop prying into government matters or dire consequences will
result"
[Voice Mail time] July 19, 12:35 A.M.
(recorded message was repeated a few times)
The number on the Caller I.D. for this call was 649-486-3151
and, according to the Internet, a 649 number is in the Turks and
Caicos Islands in the Caribbean. And when calling this number
back, you get the message "Call cannot be completed as dialed,
please check the number and dial again - WA001".
AB: That's it -- Dr. Greer?
SG: Yes.
AB: All right, so, obviously this - you know, I would presume
you've probably had a lot of threats over the years. Why did you
choose to send the audio of this one along?
SG: The reason I chose to send the audio of this one along and to
also - the key point to this is that when you call the number that
the Caller I.D. shows that it was coming from, it is a non-existent
number.
AB: Right.
SG: It's an electronically altered voice, so is this a threat you take
seriously? Yes. Is it something that alters anything we'll do? No.
If anything, we will redouble our efforts. Now, the reason I think
people need to know about this sort of thing is that it proves the
point I made back in the '90s when we had briefed the CIA
Director for President Clinton (first CIA Director), we had
briefed the Head of Intelligence Joint Staff, the Head of the
Defense Intelligence Agency...
AB: A lot of people, Doctor, a lot of people have no idea that was
actually done, that the CIA Director was briefed.
SG: Yes, I know, and this is something we need to talk about,
and why things are still going the way they are. The people were
intimidated. What I'm saying to people is that our assessment was
that this group, because we were given direct intelligence from
the President of the United States and his CIA Director and his
Secretary of Defense and pertinent members of the Senate
Intelligence Committee and other senior members of Congress,
that when they made directed inquiries into this matter, that they
were denied access, or flat-out lied to. This is illegal and, believe
me, if this was a legitimate government operation instead of a
rogue and illegal operation, you would not be getting phone calls
like this threatening a civilian medical doctor to back down off of
what he is doing, because we're about to pull more information
out to the public in the next six months.
AB: Doctor, you're - I understand your reaction. What about
those around you? What about the people who took the call?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
What about the people who heard about the call? How did the
others at CSETI react?
SG: Well, I think that the woman's voice you hear on that tape is
a trusted assistant and friend who is aware of the threat. She and
others who work with me are aware that this is not a risk-free
operation. I said for years, this is not for the faint-of-heart. But I
also remind people that not a single Disclosure Project witness,
and we have people who, even into the '90s, had top secret SCI
(Special Compartmented Intelligence) clearances. None of them
have gotten a phone call saying "Be quiet and don't talk about
this." Now, I have continued to get these sort of things where it
said, "Stop what you're doing." But we're simply not going to
respond to that. Now let's say - you know, if you analyze this
carefully, what you have to conclude is that the group that has
phoned this in and have done other things cannot be operating
under legal constitutional authority.
AB: No.
SG: If they wanted me to stop this, they could just slap an order
on me.
AB: Why haven't they?
SG: Hey, John Ashcroft, or Dick Cheney can come and say,
"Hey!" and they can issue and do an in-camera proceeding and
muzzle me. Good luck! I'd go to jail first.
AB: But, Doctor, has it occurred to you that they understand
you're a really good person to go to a witness, somebody who's
really seen something or worked in their career, their government
career in a sensitive area and really know something, they know
you're a good person to get that information from people and
maybe they know that there's - you know - there are some people
yet out there who are about ready to start talking. We're all
getting a little older, Doctor.
SG: Yes, there are some people. We have 450 of these witnesses.
AB: Maybe they know you're about to get to one of them.
SG: Well, we have them. And there are some major media events
as you know, that are being planned, some by outside media and
some by our group, the Disclosure Project, and we intend to
continue to move these things out into the public. I think the
other thing is that we are very close to identifying some scientists
who can reproduce the modus operandi of these so-called UFO's,
including the antigravity effect. So, one of the things that is
inevitable is that the truth is going to be known. The only
question is when and how. And I think the sooner the better,
because the longer we wait, the longer we're going to cannibalize
our planet and the longer we're going to plunge this planet into
chaos and war and environmental damage.
AB: Been watching very carefully, have you, the environmental
situation in the world right now? It's really beginning to get rather
dire. So if it's depending on that, which it really is, you would
think then based on that, we're getting close.
SG: Well, I think that anyone with an IQ over mud can look at
the world around us and know that something is terribly wrong.
231
AB: Yes.
SG: They can't quite put their finger on it, and there are a lot of
people active in a lot of different vineyards tilling away. The
central thing that people don't understand is that we're fifty years
living on borrowed time. That a lot of people think that what
we're doing is very visionary and futuristic, and I say "Oh. On the
contrary! This is all information that should have come out before
I was born in 1955, and in fact could have come out, including
the energy and propulsion systems." And so, we are living on a
planet and as a civilization that has stayed on its current
trajectory for half a century too long and we need a course
correction. If we don't make it, it'll be made for us, because
simply, the Earth cannot withstand six billion people living the
way we do in the West with our cars and SUV's and air
conditioning and coal-burning power plants. This is not an
option, and it cannot go on for that much longer.
AB: Do you think they are likely to let you break this open or do
you think they're more likely to break you if you get too close? I
mean, these kinds of warnings, the kind of thing we played
tonight, that's got to be a little precautionary for you.
SG: Well, it is, but remember that we've been getting these for
about twelve years and it's nothing that -- the only reason I'm
sharing it is to illustrate the rogue and illegal nature of this. You
know, there's a constitutional attorney that I've worked with on
this project who has said, "You know, what you're describing is
the Mother of all RICO's" (The Racketeering Influence Corrupt
Organization Act) where you're dealing with an illegal
clandestine para-governmental group that's transnational, similar
to what they portray in "The Manchurian Candidate", this movie.
On top of that, you have corporate and financial interests that
have done absolutely illegal things, up to and including
assassinations. Now, I want to talk about an assassination tonight
that people may not want to hear, but it's very similar to what was
portrayed in "The Manchurian Candidate" when this Senator is
killed while he's out kayaking on the Chesapeake Bay. I'm
referring now to a very brave man, CIA Director Bill Colby,
whose very dearest friend approached us in the mid-90s. And the
week that we were going to have a meeting - listen carefully --
the week we were going to have a meeting with this former CIA
Director who had been on the inside of these covert operations,
where he was going to transfer to our group $50 million in
funding...
AB: What?
SG: ...as well as existing extraterrestrial energy devices that were
functional. They found him floating down the Potomac River.
The colonel...
AB: Wait, wait wait...
SG: ...The colonel who set up this meeting came to the funeral of
my right hand aide, Shari Adamiak, who died a few years ago,
and said, "We have both had grievous losses, but we can't look
back. We've got to move forward." And this was Bill Colby's best
friend.
AB: Under what arrangement - how did, I mean, $50 million, for
example - under what auspices, how was that going to happen?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
SG: We never got that far, nor did Mr. Colby. My point is this,
and I'm not saying this to disturb Bill Colby's family, but I've
decided that the truth has got to come out on some of these
things, including these illegal, rogue operations that would phone
in a threat like this to a civilian medical doctor.
AB: Um Hmm
SG: I've never signed a national security oath, and those people
who have who are listening, mark my words, go to our website -
DisclosureProject.org - and contact me, because as far as I'm
concerned, the actions taken by this group make them ineligible
to cite the National Security Act of 1947 or any other
constitutionally approved law because they are operating as an
illegal, extra-constitutional entity.
AB: Got it. All right, Dr. Greer, hold tight. In the middle of the
night, you're listening to Coast to Coast A.M. and I bet you had
never heard any of this before from Dr. Greer.
[commercial break]
AB: Just to be sure that we all heard this correctly. Let's have Dr.
Greer go over this one more time. A - uh- murder, Dr. Greer?
You're saying a murder.
SG: Yes.
AB: Uh. And the set up to this was?
SG: Well, I'm - my group was approached by a colonel who I do
not want to name, who was Bill Colby's (one of his very best)
friends, and they had been following what we were doing in the
early and mid nineties with what was then called Project
Starlight, which then became DisclosureProject.org. But this man
approached a member of our Board of Directors, a very dear
friend of mine, and said that there was this person who is very
connected up and historically had been connected to these
projects, who absolutely agreed that it was time to end the
secrecy. He wanted to transfer to us the means to do so through
some assets that he had access to and I was told specifically that
there was a - he wanted to be sure that there was adequate
funding to do it properly which was around $50 million (which is
a rounding error on the $7 trillion oil economy) and that they had
some devices and physical equipment that they wanted to also
transfer so that we could get this disclosed and get it secured and
out to the public. So there was a "cell" if you want to look at it
that way, that was headed up, that had some involvement from
Mr. Colby that wanted to do this. So, the meeting was set up
between a member of my Board and Bill Colby, and the week
that that meeting was to be actuated, he was found floating down
the Potomac River. Now, what's interesting about the death of
Bill Colby was that, even his wife got on CNN and said "Oh, this
is very unlike Bill Colby." Because he was a very safe canoer. He
left the house opened, he left the computer on, the coffee maker
on, and all this. This was actually publicly and very briefly stated,
but then, of course, it was written off as an "accidental" drowning
while he was out canoeing on the Potomac River.
AB: I recall.
SG: Now, in reality, it's very much like what's being portrayed
where art now is imitating life in "The Manchurian Candidate",
232
where there is a Senator who was going to blow the whistle on
this transnational group that was running all this and he is
murdered by this manchurian candidate in the Chesapeake Bay
when he's out kayaking and it's made to look like a drowning
accident and is reported out through the media shills (of course,
most of the Big Media are shills for these kind of guys, or just
extremely naïve), as an accidental drowning. So what's
interesting is that this is precisely what happened to Bill Colby,
and I've said this to a number of people who are actually in the
media. And when my wife and I were sitting there looking at this
movie, "The Manchurian Candidate," we were stunned. We
looked at each other and went "Oh, my god!" because my wife,
of course, knew in real time as this event happened and, of
course, it was tragic and we were heartbroken, and of course, not
long after that, my right hand assistant and best friend in all these
efforts, Shari Adamiak was - uh, she died - and this colonel came
to her wake that was held at her apartment in Denver and he just
came up to me and he said, "You know, of course, Bill Colby
was killed trying to get the truth out on this to help us, and you
guys have had your own losses, but we can't look back, we can't
dwell on the negative. We can't look back. We have to move
forward." And that's my message to people, that's always how we
have to -
AB: I know, but if you believe what you just told me, then -
SG: It's not a belief. I know it's true, I mean I know it...
AB: Okay, if you know it's true what you just told me, then that
means they will kill to prevent any really serious damage. They
will kill to stop any really serious damage. Therefore -
SG: If they can get away with it. Remember, those were the early
days. We didn't have the systems we have in place today.
AB: Doctor, if they can get away with killing a former CIA
director, they can sure get away with killing an emergency room
doctor.
SG: Well, perhaps. But, except, I'm - he was doing this in a very
clandestine way. I am not doing what I'm doing in a clandestine
way.
AB: True enough.
SG: And, the other thing to remember is that we're much more
sophisticated now than we were back in the mid 90s when this
happened. We have enormous support within some of the groups
that are running these covert projects who want to see this happen
and I don't lose any sleep. I don't lose one minute of sleep over
this, and none of the military witnesses working with me should.
Now, it's not to say it's risk-free. You know, one of the things I
say to people is that my god, you know, when I leave here to go
back to my hotel here at Mt. Shasta, I could be hit by a Mack
truck out of control coming down the mountain and be killed.
There are risks with everything we do. But you also have to look
at the benefit. If we're being visited by intelligent life out there,
and if there are covert programs that are sitting on technologies
that could give us an entirely sustainable, long-term civilization
without the need for damaging the environment, without the need
for 80% of the world's population living in abject poverty, is it
not worth some risk? Well, it is! Now, I mean, I hate to sound
clinical about this like a doctor talking about the risk and benefit
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
ratios, but in reality, that's what it really comes down to, isn't it?
And if we're not willing to step up to the plate on something of
this importance, then we're really not worth breathing the free air
of Earth.
AB: I'm with you. I'm certainly with you.
SG: I mean, this is why you're so great for doing this kind of
show and letting someone like me talk to millions of people
about what's really going on.
AB: Well, I think I'm looking at the whole world situation. I look
carefully, as you know, at the environment. I wrote with Whitley
Strieber, "The Coming Global Super Storm," made it into a big
movie, environmental impact type stuff. I see what's going on in
the world and it seems to me that if our situation, which is
becoming rather dire, in my opinion...
SG: You bet.
AB: ...is going to proceed exponentially quicker and quicker
down the path we're going, if something doesn't intervene, we've
got trouble really immediately ahead - big trouble.
SG: You bet we do, and there's a wonderful Chinese saying that I
often like to quote that says, "Unless we change directions, we're
likely to end up where we're going." Everyone laughs and I say,
"You need to look at where we're going. You have to take the
pulse of things." And yet what I say to people is that the Earth is
going to be here, and humanity is going to be here. The question
is, are we willing to manifest the courage and exercise our free
will? I mean, speaking sort of metaphysically, if you will, this is
the sphere of free will and we can use it for good or for ill. It's
time for the good people to step up to the plate. I want to tell you
a story, and maybe I'm talking out of turn and it's late and I'm jet-
lagged and everything, but I was with Clayborne Pell (and
everyone knows Senator Pell by the Pell Grants that they went to
college on and, if you were poor like I was and didn't have the
money to go to college) and I had the opportunity to meet this
great man once out here in California when I was doing a briefing
for a Board of Directors of a think tank out here and Clayborne
Pell came out just for this meeting and I was briefing all this -
this whole group on the whole extraterrestrial and covert program
area. It was out here in the Bay Area where I am now in Northern
California. Well, interestingly, we were right next to George
Lucas' ranch (who did Star Wars) and I was at this fabulous estate
out there, and I'm sitting with this Senator who had been on every
committee and he said, "Dr. Greer, will you brief my staff on
what you've found? Because I have made inquiries for years and I
have never gotten an official briefing on this subject even though
I've been on every relevant committee. I've been in the Congress
since (I think he said 1953) when Jack Kennedy first came in."
And I said, "Yes, Sir, and you know it's a crying shame because
here you are, the Chairman (at the time) of the Senate Foreign
Relations issue." And we're out under the stars here, and I pointed
up to the stars and I said, "You know, you have been deprived of
dealing with the ultimate foreign relations issue." He looked
through his horn-rimmed glasses (you know he wore these dark
horn-rimmed glasses) and blinked and said, "Well, Dr. Greer. I'm
afraid you might be right." I said, "Well, I am! Here you are, a
man who sort of epitomizes Nobless Oblige", and sort of this
wonderful figure, who was Chairman of Senate Foreign Relations
who could never find out what was going on on the ultimate
233
foreign relations issue, and this is the sort of thing that should
change, because we can do better than this.
AB: Do you really think he was leveling with you?
SG: Oh, I know he was. Absolutely.
AB: You know, part of it - you said Big Media a little while ago.
Well, you know, tonight we've got ABC here and, if (I swear to
God) if I had another microphone, I'd open the dammed thing up
and I'd put my friend from ABC on here and we'd both grill them.
We'd turn the tables. [both laugh]
SG: Well, look. Here's my attitude about that. I am always
cautiously optimistic. You cannot judge the future by the past.
Anyone who tries to - you can be informed of trends from the
past, you can learn from history, but the future is always a new
creation. Every moment is a new creation. So when I look at this,
I go okay, maybe the news media...
AB: Maybe.
SG: ...has the ability to tell the story right, because what I'm
willing to give ABC News, or any other news entity - any news
entity - are the names, addresses and phone numbers of dozens
and dozens and dozens of top secret insiders so they can tell this
story right. Now, they may want to do a "fluff" piece and they
may do a hatchet job...
AB: No, I don't think so.
SG: ...but if they do a real story, they can have the - they can win
more Emmys.
AB: And I could be wrong.
SG: They can tell this story to the world the way it should be told
because we have enough people lined up ready to tell the truth,
and these are not people who are going to be filmed...if you go to
our web site DisclosureProject.org, you will see people, name,
rank, serial number. These are not anonymous sources, you
know, like the New York Times quote. These are actual, on-the-
record people who carried our nuclear weapons...
AB: Oh yes.
SG: ...who - and these are highly credible people who had top
secret clearances - so...
AB: Well, it's my understanding that -
SG: ...why should those people be -
AB: I know. It's my understanding that we're dealing here with a
two-to-three hour special that's going to be airing on ABC in
February of 2005. That's a pretty serious look. I mean in two to
three hours, they're not going to do a "fluff" piece. Maybe they'll
give a little bit of - you know, a little something in that area, but I
think mostly, they're after a serious piece here.
SG: Well, there's a lot of serious material to cover.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AB: Let's put it this way. I got that impression that they want to
do this for real, so it's quite an opportunity.
SG: It is. And I think we should see. We should provide the
absolute best evidence. You know, this whole concept of the Best
Available Evidence was a title that I formed in the '90s when I
was getting information to the Clinton Science Advisor and these
people, and we need to give the very best that we can. It's true
that I can't put out on a table an actual extraterrestrial life form.
However, we have literally thousands of pages of government
documents. We have hundreds of government insiders. These are
not people who just stumbled out of a bar someplace and said
they saw something. These are people who are ferrying around
our nuclear arsenal and people who were at the National Military
Command Authority and all these sort of places, so every agency
is represented in the people we have identified, and which anyone
who wants to read it can see it at DisclosureProject.org. They can
- there's a book with sixty-nine of these witnesses, called
Disclosure, with transcripts of sixty-nine of the witnesses in it.
It's there, and what's interesting is that since 2001, in the last
three years, we have doubled the number of people who are
interested in coming forward.
AB: Doctor, if you look at the current state of affairs in this
country with homeland security, terrorism, all the rest of it - we
know, you and I both know these things are in our skies. They've
been tracked by every authority you can name. Now, we're
watching our skies very carefully.
SG: You bet.
AB: The investigation of UFO's ostensibly ended with Blue
Book, right? And there hasn't been really anything "official"
since. No ongoing program, which means either they know or
they don't care, or they know and they can't talk about it because
they can't control it. Which of those?
SG: It's none of those. They know, and they're trying to control it
because once they figured out the modus operandi of these
objects, they knew that they couldn't talk about it. Look, anyone
worth a grain of salt in the scientific world who has disclosed to
them the fact that these things are operating, are going to say,
"Well, how much have you learned about how they're
operating?" and when that question is asked, we have people who
will answer it; and when they answer it, it's the end of the oil
economy. It's the end of the centralized economy we have today
that has impoverished the world, and we're talking about what I
call a "kleptocracy" that has kept the world burning for decades
past the time it should have. Let me tell you - I'm going to tell
you something here that I maybe shouldn't mention, but I'm going
to.
AB: Good.
SG: A very good friend of the Bush family, a very close friend of
the Bush family, (and I'm working with at lest one or two friends
or advisors to every living president right now.) Now this man
told me in February of '03, listen very carefully - in February of
'03 -- that we would find no weapons of mass destruction, that we
had to go in there and free up the second largest proven oil
reserve in the world because with China industrializing at ten to
fifteen percent a year, and with India industrializing at close to
that, there was simply not enough fossil fuel to go around and we
were headed toward a catastrophic shortage within the next two
234
to ten years if we didn't maximize the output of these oil
producing areas and that this is totally what we were going into
Iraq for. Now, I almost laughed out loud because here's a guy
who's a close associate of the Bush family telling me this
personally. And it has turned out to be the case. There are no
weapons of mass destruction, there was no Al Qaeda presence in
Iraq. This was totally about, and I don't care how anyone wants to
spin it, we have got to - and from their point of view, if you want
to keep these other technologies secret, and you're looking at a
world industrializing as rapidly as China and other countries are,
you have got to find other sources of fossil fuel, and that's what
this was about. Yet it's so tragic because we're sitting in another
parallel program in these black boxes, the means to take us
completely off the fossil fuel economy, and this is one of the
greatest crimes against humanity in the history of the human race.
AB: Well, I'm in agreement with you on the oil thing. I don't
know about weapons of mass destruction, it's oil. It's got to be oil,
but even, Doctor, if we control that oil, all that does is change the
date. It doesn't cure the problem it changes the date when the
crisis occurs. That's all it does.
SG: Of course! Everyone knows this is temporizing, you know,
but remember, one of the guys that I worked with back in the '90s
who had been on Ronald Reagan's National Security Council
staff told me, "You know, long term planning at the National
Security Council was six months" - I mean, it's pathetic, you
know?
AB: Yeah.
SG: We're not talking about -- we're dealing with apparatchiks
here who are trying to function from quarter to quarter, or short-
term from term to term. We have a serious problem on this planet
and the solutions are there. The question is, are we going to allow
the solutions to come out? And we need to make this decision,
yes we are. We need to say yes to a good future, and make this
course correction. I'm convinced that humanity is ready for this. I
think there are very few people who would not benefit from this.
There's a very tiny, what I call "kleptocracy" that have been
ripping off the world through these centralized energy and
economic systems that need to understand that that is a way of
the past, that we need to move on to a new way of functioning.
And it's a difficult transition. I don't make light of it. We're
talking about the biggest change since the industrial revolution.
AB: Yes we are. How convinced are you that extraterrestrials
somewhere are indeed involved in the mix of this? Are you 100%
sure? 90% sure?
SG: Well, I'm 100% sure that there are extraterrestrial
civilizations observing our planet. I don't think at all that they're
involved in any sort of keeping of this secret. There are many
people who would like to think so. I think that frankly, the
extraterrestrial civilizations out there are waiting for us to get out
of this sort of dysfunctional phase of adolescence collectively we
are in as a race, as humanity, and move into a state of maturity.
That's the sort of transition humanity is in right now. We're not in
infancy, we're in adolescence, and it's a very reckless and
dangerous time. We're in the early stages of adulthood and late
adolescence. We need to make this transition to a functional
civilization on this planet, and there are extraterrestrial
civilizations that are quite aware of that and are waiting for that
moment to arrive.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AB: Do you believe that the energy source that our government
knows about - possesses - came through, or as a result of contact
with extraterrestrial beings and/or back-engineered craft, or
whatever? Is that how it happened?
SG: I think it's not that simple. I think that if you look all the way
back to the twenties with the work of T. Townsend-Brown, if you
look at some of the work that was reported that the genius Tesla,
Nikola Tesla, had done, there were some amazing breakthroughs.
Even if you go back to the time of Faraday, actually, and read
some of the early work that was done there, where there was this
ability to perturb what we now call the quantum vacuum, or the
zero point energy field and get this enormous amount of energy
from the space around an electromagnetic device. I think that this
work was actually being developed by humans. I think it was
then greatly potentiated, frankly, by our discovery and retrieval
of extraterrestrial vehicles back in the thirties and forties.
AB: All right, hold it right there, and that's kind of where we'll
pick up because I thought that that's what you believed, and if it
is, then we have a very great deal to talk about, indeed. In other
words, what would happen with that kind of disclosure. And, oh,
ladies and gentlemen, a great deal would happen. I'm Art Bell...
[commercial break]
AB: Actually, how can you not be listening tonight? My guest is
Dr. Steven Greer. He's head of the 'parade for disclosure' and I
agree with him regarding these objects in our skies. I really do.
There's not much that I believe in this world, short of proof, but
you know I've seen one, maybe 2 of these things, one for sure
close close close encounter, and having seen a ship defy gravity, I
just know that there exists antigravity and, if there exists
antigravity and drive and propulsion systems to get from here to
there, which is no minor statement, then there exists the energy to
run our world at a time when we're running out. Well, this is no
trivial matter, as Dr. Greer has been explaining to you. However,
the revelation of this - if it is so, and I believe A to be so - so, you
are forced then to consider B. In this case, B for Brookings. And,
that is exactly what we're going to do in a moment.
[commercial break]
AB: By the way, once again, as you know, ABC is here filming
tonight and earlier tonight while they were setting up I turned the
camera on them. I figured you all would want to see what it's
like. Now, I have a relatively small broadcasting studio and they
have a relatively great deal of equipment [laughs]. So I snapped a
photograph - actually, I've got several - I'll share some more with
you, but one's up on my web cam right now on the web site -
coasttocoastam.com - and you can see their high definition
camera. One of the first things of this sort that, I understand, that
ABC has shot in high definition. So that's pretty cool. And I was
kind of happy to see all of their stuff. Anyway, there's a picture
of their camera there. Pretty cool.
AB: Anyway, in a moment, back to Dr. Greer and the question
which really cannot be ignored. I know it can kind of be tossed
off about Brookings, but not all that easily. So let's talk to Dr.
Greer about that. Doctor, I mean, there is the Brookings Report
and its implications are basically that if we were to discover there
are others, and if in some way it, for example, would affect our
religious views, or what we conventionally believe about science,
this would have without question an effect on so many
235
institutions and people in careers that - I don't know, is it a shock
we could really absorb, do you think?
SG: Yes, I think this - remember, this is 2004, not 1954.
AB: True.
SG: Fifty years later, forty years later, thirty years later, there are
very few people who don't believe that there's potential for life in
the universe. I think the numbers are up 60% to 70%. In some
polls, the majority of Americans believe UFOs are real and the
government is lying, more than the number of people who voted
for any recent past U.S. president. So the point I make is this:
There's this sort of patriarchal condescension that the masses
can't take it, when in reality that's only cover for them keeping it
secret for completely old-fashioned reasons.
AB: Well, look, though. I talked to people like...the head of
CSETI [meaning SETI] who says two things: One, "Look, Art. If
we get a signal from ninety or a hundred light years away, I think
that information would be absorbed quite readily by the
American people. There would be lot's of debate and shock and
surprise and happiness and sadness and all of that, but we'd
absorb it because they're ninety or a hundred million light years
away." That's one scenario. Another scenario is they decide to
land.
SG: Right.
AB: Now you've got a whole different story on your hands.
SG: It depends on how you "spin it". If you spin it in a 'threat
matrix' - in other words, if you say "Look, they're here and it's a
threat to us",...
AB: Yes.
SG: ...yes this would disturb people. And I think that that is
stupid to do that. On the other hand, if you say "Look, they're
here, there's no evidence of a threat, and we need to figure out
how to interface with them in a way that redounds to the benefit
of humanity. This is something that is possible. We can do this.
CSETI is doing it. Let me tell you what happened tonight on
Mount Shasta...
AB: Unless - okay, in a moment - but, unless it really is a threat.
There are those in our community - ufology - who believe that
they are not warm fuzzy guys. That they may be a threat, and that
should be addressed. I mean, most of these abduction stories, and
the rest of it, don't sound too damn friendly, so that's at least got
to be a 50 percent possibility, doesn't it?
SG: Well, no. It isn't a 50 percent possibility. It's an
infinitesimally small possibility.
AB: Why?
SG: Because, the fact that you and I are still breathing the free air
of Earth is abundant testimony to the fact that these civilizations
are not hostile. Because, given the fact that we have been
targeting and attempting to strike these objects militarily for
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
decades, if they were seriously hostile, they would have 'cleaned
our clock' years ago.
AB: But, most ...
SG: The fact of the matter is, is that are not. And I'll say
something else about this. A lot of the frightening stuff that is put
out there on this subject...
AB: Yes
SG: ...is counterintelligence information. I have multiple first-
hand insiders who have been on special operations where they
have quote "abducted" humans, to make it look like an alien
encounter, and it's completely false. So, there's an enormous
amount of disinformation out there. The psychological warfare
dimension of this subject is enormous and sophisticated.
AB: But, most ants buzzing around on their little anthill working
away, they're just happy as can be until the shoe falls.
SG: Well perhaps, but this is sort of a paranoid view of the
cosmology. My point is this... One of the wonderful things -- on
DisclosureProject.org, there is an interview in the book
"Disclosure" with Monsignor Balducci. He's a senior theologian
at the Vatican, and this is no sort of a new age left liberal. I mean,
he's a conservative...
AB: That's right.
SG: ...Vatican insider, and I've got this wonderful interview with
him, and I'll say something here that I've never said publicly. I'm
saying a few things here I've never said publicly.
AB: Good.
SG: Alright, when I was at his apartment overlooking St. Peters
in the Vatican he gave me this interview, and one of the things he
said is that "obviously there are extraterrestrial civilizations
visiting us. It's clear that they're not hostile. It's clear that we
should not have a military approach to this problem." And that
what CSETI is doing, where we go out and try to make peaceful
contact with them...
AB: Yes.
SG: ...is exactly what we should be... Now, off camera, he pulled
me aside and we were out on his balcony, and Paola Harris was
there, and he said you know, "I couldn't be saying this unless
"Papa" [meaning the Pope] wanted me to say this." I don't believe
any mainstream theologian is going to have a problem with the
fact that we're not alone in the universe. One of the very, almost
funny, things that Monsignor Balducci said was that if we are not
alone - if humanity is the only intelligent life in the universe, then
God made a big mistake. [laughs] You know, and he puts it in
this perspective that certainly the universe is filled with
intelligent life and one of the problems with the SETI project -
not CSETI, my group, but the SETI project listening to signals, is
that they think that the civilizations advanced enough to get here
would be using 20th century or 21st century Earth technologies.
AB: Yes.
236
SG: Well, this is a very anthropocentric and foolish perspective
which anyone can deconstruct very quickly.
AB: There are many secrets hidden under the Vatican. Did you
broach that subject with him?
SG: Yes, and I met with one of the Knights of Malta (which does
exist) and we discussed this because he was concerned about
what I was doing with the Clinton Administration at the time, and
we - in this discussion, we went through this whole issue of some
of the things that are in the so-called secret Vatican Library on
this matter, which is quite extensive by the way. And that of
course, this is something that should come out. But they don't see
it particularly as their role to do it. They would have part of the
role, and this is true of a lot of the religious groups who know
about this issue.
AB: How could they not bury it, and keep it buried? Or is that - I
guess they are!
SG: Because they're preparing to be able to discuss this in a way
that affirms the universality of God. Now look, we can get into a
metaphysical discussion, but I'm on the same page, I think, with
Billy Graham and certainly with Monsignor Balducci on this
because, if there is a supreme being, it is a divine, infinite being
for all people, for all worlds, for all intelligent life. It is the
creator of all that there is. So the fact that there are these other
intelligent life forms out there in no way negates any of the
rational, sane teachings of any religion. Now, there may be some
misinterpretations that it would negate, and there may be some
upheavals in that area, but the central knowledge of the existence
of a supreme being in no way is diminished...
AB: Perhaps...
SG: ...by the realization that we're not alone in the universe. On
the contrary, it redounds to the glory of God to recognize that the
universe is filled with intelligent beings capable of knowing that
being.
AB: Yes, did Jesus walk on the other intelligent worlds? [laughs]
SG: ... That's a good question. My opinion of that is probably
yes.
AB: How much do you think the church knows? How much do
you think the church really knows? Do they have...
SG: I think very few people... Remember, the Vatican is very
much like the U.S. Government. 99.9% of the people there don't
know anything. You know, I often joke about this. When I dealt
with people at the CIA, most of those people couldn't find their
ass in a well-lighted room with the lights on! So, excuse my
"French".
AB: I didn't say that.
SG: Okay, I did, and it's true, particularly when it comes to this
stuff. But the Vatican is a highly compartmented operation as
well. Now, are there compartmented operations within, for
example Opus Dei that is sitting on this? Yes. Does that mean the
Pope has full knowledge or access? No! I mean this is the myth
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
that the media has propelled out to the public, even about the
U.S. president. If you're the U.S. president, it doesn't mean that
you know all things as some omniscient ruler. You only know
what people are willing to tell you, and if you're dealing with an
Unacknowledged Special Access Project, which is the proper
term for these super-secret black projects, they're not going to tell
the President if they don't want to. They're not going to tell the
Secretary of Defense, if they don't want to.
AB: Okay. So that sounds just like the Vatican is structured
exactly the way our government is...
SG: Correct.
AB: ...in that, not even the President, or some presidents might
know and other presidents might not.
SG: Right. Correct. It depends on whether you're willing to go
along with the game. You know, when I was meeting with Lord
Hill-Norton (God rest his soul - he's recently passed away) and I
was at his cottage in Hampshire, and here's a five-star Admiral
and a Sea Lord, and he, of course had been head of the Ministry
of Defense since the early '90's on this issue. What was
fascinating was that he was sitting there with this little notepad,
very iously taking notes, interviewing me - but at some point, he
said...he said to me "Well, Dr. Greer, why didn't they tell me
anything about this matter when I was head of the Ministry of
Defense?" and I answered him with a question - and listen very
carefully - I said, "Look. What would you have done if you had
found out that there was a transnational group that was highly
centered in the corporate and financial domain that had
committed assassination, had withheld from U.S. presidents, and
your prime ministers, and you, the information that not only that
we weren't alone in the world - in the universe - but that there
were technologies that could have completely replaced, by the
1950's and '60's all polluting sources of energy and propulsion on
this planet." He looked at me and said, "I wouldn't have stood for
it for a bloody minute!" You could hear him - he was in a rage!
And I said, "Yes, and that's exactly why they never told you,
because you're a stand-up guy, and you would not have stood by
where the largest racketeering influence corrupt organization on
the planet ran us over Niagara Falls not even in a barrel to keep
this stuff secret so that they could maintain their death grip on the
oil-based energy economy." And I said, "That is why they never
told you. That's why they haven't told select people because they
knew that if they did tell you, they would have to do with you
what they did to John F. Kennedy."
AB: Let's suppose for a second that the very worst occurs and we
don't find out about it until the virtual last drop of usable oil is
extracted from the ground, we should be able to perhaps look
ahead and know when that date roughly might be. In other words,
we'll see the pressure increasing toward what date, do you
suppose, Doctor. Any guesses?
SG: Well, you know, it's not the last drop because before we burn
up the last drop, we'll have already melted both polar ice caps.
AB: Right. I'm with you.
SG: [chuckles] Look, this is - part of this isn't a rational
discussion and here's why. You have people in this policy group,
and there are two or three hundred people in it (some people call
237
it the MJ-12 group, it's not called that anymore) and I know a
number of these people in it.
AB: Do you think it really was once called that?
SG: Yes.
AB: Okay.
SG: What's interesting is that there is a hardcore center of it that
are eschatologists. Okay? These are people who fantasize about
how the world is going to end. So if that is your belief system,
and you think, oh well, you know, the world's going come to an
end and there's going to be this big event, you don't worry if
you're melting both polar ice caps. Now, of course, this becomes
a self-fulfilling prophecy based on misinterpretation of many
things, including most of the scriptures. My point is, is that if that
is what is causing people to create policy - and I remind people
that this is historical fact that James Watt who was the Interior
Secretary during the Reagan years was an eschatologist, and he
stated to the public that we didn't need to - well, he said it when
the mike was open, he didn't mean it to be recorded - but he said,
"You know, we don't need to worry about the environment and
all this, because the world's going to come to an end, and then
there's going to be the return of Christ, and since the world's
going to be destroyed anyway, we might as well just go ahead
and let it be destroyed." So there's this bizarre sort of - not
spirituality, but a weird religiosity that informs this stuff.
AB: It is weird, but let me tell you a little story.
SG: It's very weird.
AB: I want to tell you a story. I had a lady call me who's - we
were talking about the end of the world and she called and said,
"Hey, Art. You know, since you're talking about how the world
might end, I called (and she named, I forget, Visa, MasterCard,
you know, one of the big card companies.)
SG: Right.
AB: And she said, "Do you all have a policy with regard to, say,
if an asteroid was headed to Earth that would destroy the Earth?
Destroy all human life?" and they actually took her seriously
enough to put her on hold. She went through several chains of
people, the hierarchy and, damned if they didn't answer her
question. They said, "Actually, yes, we do have a policy and it's
that we would allow everybody to run their cards right up to the
limit, no problem. That would be our policy, and the reason is
obvious - if the asteroid hits and we all die, so what?"
SG: Exactly! [laughing]
AB: "But, what if the asteroid misses?" That's a pretty honest
answer.
SG: Yeah, well, there's all kinds of bizarre things you can get into
here. But here's the central point, as I see it is this: The world
view that people have informs their policy and it directs their
policy.
AB: Of course.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
SG: And this is true. The paradigm you live through, but I think
that most people know that the Earth is going to be in her orbit.
Humanity will be here, and we don't need to wait 'til we've
burned the last drop of oil. Now here's the problem. I was having
a discussion a number of years ago. We set up a briefing for the
Senate Environment and Energy Committee and Doctor and
Colonel Tom Bearden was there amongst other people who are
luminaries in the area of New Energy - and I consider him one of
the true greats in this area, he's a genuine genius - and we were
discussing this and ...he is actually one of the people who is on
the DisclosureProject.org website and in the book. He says, "You
know, we need to have these energy systems out by 2004 or
thereabouts." Now remember, this was a briefing in the fall of
2000, for the Senate Intelligence ... I mean, Energy Committee
and Environment Committee. And my science advisor, Dr. Loder
of the University of Hew Hampshire, had facilitated this briefing
and he [Bearden] said, "But if we don't do that, the lead time
between announcing these technologies and getting them into
every car and every home is such that it's a ten or twenty year lag
period." You're not going to wave a magic wand like Peter Pan
and suddenly everyone is going to have these new energy
systems. So we needed to bring these out now, because if you
extrapolate it out ten or twenty years, that's about how much time
we had using the fossil fuel system. So it's obvious to people who
want to see the human race continue to evolve and grow here,
that this is a change that is long overdue, and we're really at the
point where it has to happen now.
AB: Well, that was my question, a rough 'crunch' date.
SG: Well, of course, I think that we are at a point where, between
now and 2020 we're going to have to make this transition fully,
and I don't mean in a small way. We're talking about the "mother
of all martial plans", energetically and environmentally, to get
this entire planet off the use of fossil fuels. It can be done. I mean
human will can make this happen.
AB: If our government came to you and said, "Dr. Greer, all
right. You know what? We're going to do it and we're going to do
it through you." Would you be interested?
SG: Sure, if they were honestly wanting to do that.
AB: Really?
SG: Sure. I don't care who it's through. It needs to happen. You
know, a lot of people say [ask] why am I still doing this? I gave
up my medical career. Here I am, an emergency doctor...
AB: And you gave it all up.
SG: And I gave it all up.
AB: Hold on, we'll pick up right -- that's a good place to pick up.
Dr. Steven Greer, who indeed was an emergency room physician,
quite a career to chuck away to pursue ufology, if that's what this
really is, and I guess it is, it's ufology. But it's all becoming about
energy -- their energy, our energy, the energy. Probably the
energy would be more correct. From the high desert in the midst
of the night, I'm Art Bell.
[commercial break]
238
[Plays the threat message again]
AB: Once again, Dr. Steven Greer... It seems like in the
beginning, Dr. Greer, it was more about UFOs, more about what's
in our skies, but now it seems like it's more about energy, clear-
cut energy. That's - in other words, the whole thing is pointing
more toward energy than it is whether or not they exist, is that
right?
SG: Well, actually, no, because if you go all the way back to
1991, I was talking to people like Bruce DePalma and Dr. Brian
O'Leary and others about the energy issue. To be honest with
you, I was expecting other people to deal with the energy issue
while we disclosed the existence of life in outer space that was
here, and the need to make a change from a militaristic approach
to that phenomenon to a diplomatic and peaceful approach to it.
But, what I found was that people were not attending to that
problem adequately and that it was all part of the same crisis. It's
a crisis in vision...
AB: Sure.
SG: It's a crisis in the way our society is being controlled and
managed, and so, basically, if you understand that the secrecy
around these advanced energy and propulsion systems even the
ones that are manmade, and the secrecy around the UFO issue are
identical, and they're managed by essentially the same group,
then you understand that you have an integrated problem that
needs to be resolved and that's really our approach to this now.
It's a very comprehensive approach. We had that knowledge back
in '90 and '91 and '92, but I was expecting other people to resolve
the energy part of it. What I found is that they really can't and
won't because the secrecy issues and the complex nature of the
secrecy attendant to one is identical to the other. So, the UFO
secrecy and the energy secrecy are really identical.
AB: Yeah. All right, I know you're doing something at Mt. Shasta
now. You've got some sort of training. Are they classes going on?
Or what are you doing there?
SG: What are we doing on Mt. Shasta? Well, we have thirty-
three people here, and we go up to this beautiful site on the side
of Mt. Shasta. Let me tell you what happened tonight. I wish so
much we had been on the air and I'd had a sat-phone [satellite
phone] to talk to you when this was happening. We were in this
clearing up at about 5,000 feet and we were sitting there doing
our observation of the night sky (and it's a beautiful, crystal clear
night here at Mt. Shasta) and suddenly at about 13,000 feet on the
side of this huge volcano (which is what Mt. Shasta is) this
beautiful light illuminated and then there were three of them, and
we took our lasers out (we have these very high-powered lasers)
and we started signaling to it and they started flashing back. This
went on for fifty minutes and the only reason that it ended was
that I had to come here for this interview! But, you know, it was
one of these things, and then suddenly we have all these
electromagnetic detection devices with us. One of them is a
battery operated, state-of-the-art radar detector that has a laser
band on it, and suddenly as all this was going on and we're seeing
these objects on the side of this absolutely vertical cliff where it's
a glacier up there, signaling to us, the electromagnetic detectors
we had there started beeping and going off, and we're way out in
the wilderness. There's no source for electromagnetic pollution or
radiation to do this. So this was going on up to literally within
minutes of me leaving to come here for this interview.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AB: Wow!
SG: So we take groups out to areas - and of course, this is a very
important thing (I've talked to the people at ABC News about
this) is that we're bypassing this whole debate in a sense of "Are
they out there?" We've concluded they are, and we know they
are. So, what we're saying, okay, here's an existential question. If
we're not alone in the universe, and if they're here visiting Earth,
what should we be doing to reach out to them? Instead of being
passive, we've decided we should do something called the CE-5
initiative (which is the Close Encounter of the Fifth Kind
Initiative) where we basically go out and say, "Okay, if you're out
there, we're willing to vector you in using these radio signals and
all this other stuff we're using, and see if you can interact with
us." Well, tonight, here were these objects way up on Mt. Shasta,
and then of course, this strange electromagnetic pulse came down
around the group that started setting off all our electromagnetic
detectors. What I say to people is that there is the ability of
humans, even if we're not senior diplomats to the State
Department or the United Nations to go out to areas and say,
"Look. We're here and we're conscious, sentient beings. You're
out there and you're conscious, sentient beings. Let's see how far
we can take that experience."
AB: All right.
SG: That's part of what the whole CSETI experience is about.
We've been doing this since 1990.
AB: But - but, Doctor. Here you are at Mt. Shasta. Probably at
some level active. Certainly, lots of minerals contained in one
place. I mean, it is a volcano after all and UFO's have been
associated with volcanoes for years in reports we've had, so that's
not unusual. I don't know what kind of connection you imagine
they have but...how do you know, for example that you're not
dealing with something metaphysical? That you're not dealing -
you may well be dealing with something metaphysical. I mean, a
presence obviously was there and was trying - or had some form
of communication with you.
SG: Of course, it was specifically doing that, but you use the
word "metaphysical", and I would say, "Let's look at what Walt
Whitman said [in] "Leaves of Grass," Isn't everything
metaphysical? Isn't - truly, what does the word "metaphysical"
mean? Let's look at this very carefully. In reality, if you're
dealing with civilizations capable of interstellar travel...
AB: Yes.
SG:...you're also dealing with civilizations who've discovered the
nexus between light, matter, space, time, awakeness or
consciousness, thought; and this is a very important thing to
realize. It's a very advanced area of science to look at where the
interplay is, or the interface is, between what people would call
metaphysics, and I would postulate that metaphysics, or a
miracle, is simply something that can be understood scientifically
that isn't yet understood scientifically, and so they call it
"metaphysical" or a miracle. Look, if you went back a few
thousand years, or a few hundred years and gave someone a cell
phone...
AB: Let me try and -
239
SG: ...they would say it was something interdimensional. They
would say it was something metaphysical.
AB: Yes, of course they would, but let me be more clear, if I can.
When I say metaphysical I mean, how do you know you're not
dealing with a spirit, for example?
SG: Spirits don't have actual physical lights that lift up off the
mountain and fly around and signal back and forth, I mean, this is
not -
AB: They might - they might! I mean, look, I deal in other things
on this program. Ghosts, what are called Shadow People, things
that we truly can't explain, but millions of people are seeing, and
there may be a wall between this life and there may be another
life and there may be artifacts of that life, or maybe there are
shadows of artifacts of this life, but...
SG: But, I don't think the compartments are as clear as you're
presenting. I think there is actually a perfect continuum between
all of that phenomena and us and life in outer space, and this is
the whole point. There is a - paradigm crisis. There is a
worldview crisis where science and, if you want to call it,
spirituality is sort of trying to figure out how it brings itself
together. It can be brought together. But the point is, that to put
them into separate compartments is to miss the point entirely, that
there is a continuation (or a continuum) that crosses from things
that are faster than the speed of light. You know, I wrote an
article years ago called "The Crossing Point". If you see a car
driving around that has XINGPT on it, I'm in it. It means crossing
point, and what it refers to is everything that is resonating faster
than the speed of light. But, when you go through the light
barrier, and it's a quantum, it's not a gradual thing, it's a quantum
event, you're dealing with everything that some people would call
metaphysical; but you're dealing with sciences, and there are very
specific sciences - some of them are in the area of scalar
electromagnetic systems - but you're dealing with very specific
sciences that are clearly involving phenomena that some people
would call metaphysical. But it's not metaphysical, it's physical!
It's just very advanced, and very high frequency and very high-
energy physics.
AB: Fascinating. So it all eventually can be explained
scientifically.
SG: Absolutely.
AB: Do you think that a lot of what we believe as religion could
also be explained scientifically?
SG: A lot of it. Absolutely. And a lot of it is something that can
be experienced. Remember, experience is the mother of all
science. Empirical observation experience is the wellspring of all
science, and so there's no reason to diminish experience. The
point is that, if we don't have the instrumentation to detect certain
things, it doesn't mean it's not there. It just means we haven't
developed the instrumentation yet.
AB: Well -
SG: For example, did x-rays exist before we had the ability to
detect x-rays? Yes, of course they existed. So we're dealing now
with civilizations that are able to morph, if you will, or to
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
transition into faster-than-speed-of-light forms, and you then step
into an area that some people would call metaphysical. It's
actually very scientific. So, it's not as if there's a clear barrier
between science and this kind of information.
AB: There's not.
SG: The problem is that we're viewing this through the prism...
AB: Right.
SG: ...of twentieth, twenty-first (early twenty-first) century
science which is really in its infancy. So what I point out to
people is that there are sciences that will evolve over time where
we can specifically measure and note things that are now
considered to be impossible metaphysical things. So I think we
have to take it scientifically. I'm a scientist! I'm a medical doctor
and it's not like I'm a psychiatrist, you know, I was taking care of
people being shot and stabbed, and heart attacks. The point is that
we have to view this with some humility and understand that at
this point in the evolution of the human race, we're maybe half a
step out of the jungle in terms of scientific knowledge. We're not
that far advanced, even though we think we are, and there's a
tremendous amount in the universe yet to be discovered where
we can then scientifically reproduce it. But, we can't ignore the
early things that we discover. Just because we can't quantify
everything doesn't mean it's [not] there and this is a huge mistake,
in my opinion, that the SETI project is making. They're trying to
use electromagnetic signals to detect civilizations which, if they
are advanced beyond the barrier of the speed of light, will be
beyond the electromagnetic spectrum as it is currently described.
AB: Well, they're currently correcting some of their - some of the
way they do "biz"...
SG: Yes of course, they need to.
AB: ... and so forth, yes. Um, when you're on the side of Mt.
Shasta communicating with something, what do you think you're
communicating with?
SG: Well...
AB: Do you have any guess? For example, a further question -
have you ever gone beyond light in response to light? Has it ever
come down to even rudimentary forms of communication of
ideas of any sort, or concepts, or anything?
SG: Yes, it has, and I think that this gets us into a whole question
of "How far do we want to take this at this time?"
AB: Right!
SG: But the CSETI experiment, if you want to call it an
experiment, has been to go all over the world where there have
been credible...
AB: Right.
SG: ...reports of these objects and see how far we can take it.
Now, we're doing this on $3.85. We don't have NASA's multi-
240
billion dollar budget which is really flushing money down the
toilet, but - ouch...I maybe shouldn't say that since my uncle was
involved with NASA very heavily - but the point is that there are
things that we are doing now which are oriented toward, at least
mapping out what are the possibilities of contact. Now, if we're
not alone in the universe and if they're here, even though it's a
humble approach, I mean, we don't have the resources to do what
NASA's doing, or even that SETI is doing, shouldn't we make
some attempt in that direction? I remind people we've had some
rather spectacular things happen. In the '90's, we had over the
volcano Popo, in Mexico, an enormous triangular craft that came
and circled and signaled with us and it was fully materialized. We
have here at Mt. Shasta a couple of years ago, I think it was 1999,
had an enormous triangular formation that was seen all over the
United States that came right over the mountain, turned over us,
we signaled to it, it signaled back. Now...
AB: Doctor. Why...
SG: People say, "Why is that important?"
AB: Why volcanoes, is what I'd say.
SG: Well, that's a very good question (and by the way, this was
way out in space. This particular object was enormous). I would
say that there is a large body of evidence that these
extraterrestrial vehicles have been around volcanic areas and I
don't believe that it is a geophysical effect, like quartz and
minerals and what have you, because that piezoelectric effect is
very well described. These are very different from that and I
believe it may be because they're concerned about the stability of
the Earth, the stability of the Earth's crust. There may be other
reasons we don't understand. But there is - I mean it's true that
when Mt. Pinatubo was blowing in the Philippines, there were all
kinds of craft seen. If you go to look at some of the videotape
from Japan at Mt. Unzen, this has been a phenomenon reported
all over the world, particularly around the Pacific Ring of Fire...
AB: Exactly!
SG: ...as it's called.
AB: Yes.
SG: And I don't believe at all that it's natural phenomena. I think
clearly these are things under intelligent control, and perhaps
(just perhaps...I'm speculating here) they're concerned with the
stability of the biosphere and the Earth, particularly as we are
stressing it.
AB: Well, if they're concerned, I'm concerned.
SG: Well, you should be.
AB: Yeah.
SG: And I think that this is one of the issues is that we are at a
time in history where, again we're fifty years into an era when the
type of environmental damage we're doing should have been
retired.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AB: All right, well here's a really good question. Whether it
would be a volcano, another natural disaster or perhaps by our
own hand (which is quite likely), and disaster was - we're right on
the precipice of some terrible disaster. Is it your view there would
be intervention?
SG: Well, if you look at a document that we created in 1991, we
very clearly stated that in the event of a worst - I mean absolutely
worst case scenario, there would be an intervention to try to
stabilize things and I think that this is something which is
rational. If we have been observed for a number of years and
perhaps a number of centuries, if not millennia, by extraterrestrial
civilizations, there may be some concern that they would need to
do that. For example, thermonuclear war is something that could
extinguish life as we know it on Earth.
AB: But you're telling me, Doctor, that they knocked down
ICBMs that had been test-launched. They knocked them down!
SG: Intercepted them, yes, and in fact, if you look at the
testimony of Mr. Salas, and of Lt. Colonel Arneson, they say that
at the one Strategic Air Command facility there were sixteen
separate intercontinental ballistic missiles that were taken offline
and rendered unlaunchable one morning as -- now interestingly,
the Soviet Union had the same thing happen.
AB: Okay, Doctor. Hold it. That's what I heard. Hold it right
there.
[commercial break]

AB: Yes.
SG: We have in the Disclosure Project, and you can see some of
this at DisclosureProject.org. If people get on that web site, then
they will see that there are people who were senior officials with
the Atomic Energy Commission who were with the Strategic Air
Command who said that when we were testing some of these
weapons systems...
AB: Dr. Greer is here from CSETI, and boy, what a night this has
been. Lots of things we've never heard before, and, trust me when
I tell you, there's more directly ahead...
[commercial break]
AB: Well, if this is real, it's too good to be true. The timing is too
good to be true. Uh, Dr. Greer?

AB: Yes. SG: Yes.

SG: ...that it was clear that these vehicles would come in and AB: I've got a man on the line who claims he was at one of those
intercept and at times, even destroy some of the intercontinental silos. Caller, are you there?
ballistic missiles as they went into space, near Earth space, and
they were clearly trying to indicate "Please do not destroy this Caller: I am there.
beautiful planet, and if you do, we will try to stop it."

AB: All right, you were at -- Uh, what's your first name?
AB: How well documented is that?

Caller: I'm John, from -

SG: It's extremely well documented.

AB: You're John. From?

AB: I'm remembering hearing reports, Doctor, of missiles that
were deactivated at some of our silos. I remember reports of the
Russians having missiles actually begin to activate. I remember Caller: From Centralia -
those reports. Those were real, weren't they?
AB: Centralia, and you claim you were...
SG: They were real, and I think that what was being said,
though, I think that the message being conveyed by these Caller: Washington.
extraterrestrial civilizations is that we needed to break - to back
down off this brink of nuclear holocaust. I mean, if you look at
AB: You claim you were at what silo? When, and what
our testimony that is involving the area of Strategic Air
happened?
Command and nuclear facilities, we have no fewer than half a
dozen separate witnesses who were present at nuclear or Strategic
Air Command facilities... Caller: It was in the hotel flight in the summer of 1966.

AB: Yes. AB: You apparently were on George's [George Noory] show,
with George on the show?
SG: ...or with the Atomic Energy Commission who corroborate
that this was going on. We're not talking one guy who's unnamed. Caller: Exactly, for about an hour, a month or so ago.
We're talking about at least half a dozen that we have on the
record, and in our files we have probably another dozen, and AB: Okay, and where were you and what happened?
what this indicated to me as I went around, (and I personally
interviewed all of these men, virtually all of them) and what I
Caller: Okay. We had -- this was a year before it happened at
found was I would ask them, "What do you think was being
Malmstrom Air Force Base, and I carried the top security
conveyed to us?"
clearances in the U.S. Government and I handled those nuclear
weapons and those missiles.

241
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
SG: Right.
Caller: And we began to have...a series of outer zone security
violations where something penetrated the outer security zone of
the site, and then it was followed by inner zone security
violations, and after that, then it wiped out the missiles. The
missiles, the G and C went down. They read G and C No-Go's,
and when I spoke about this a month or so ago, and you know, it
had been a long time since it happened. I'd forgotten about this,
the third problem, the G and C No-Go's and then when I checked
my notes, there it was!
AB: G and C, meaning?
Caller: Yeah, we lost control of the missiles.
AB: You're a little bit too close to your phone. Back off a little
bit. G and C means what?
Caller: Guidance and control package.
AB: Thank you. And so the guidance and control package went
down.
Caller: Down. And that just wiped out the missile. The missile
didn't know where it was, and it's a failure. It's called G and C
No-Go.
AB: All right, and all this happened. You had outer zone and then
inner zone failure, so something was there.
Caller: Absolutely. And in our case, we had sightings. I didn't
see these things, but we scrambled. The first thing you scramble
are a couple of AP's [air patrols] from the launch control facility
which controls ten of those minuteman missiles, and they sent
these AP's out, and the boys (you know, young men), reported
seeing saucer discs sitting over the silo with little lights or
whatever, around it, and these are in the status of an excited
utterance. The reaction was immediate. They began to look
around for other teams that were close. All these missiles sit out
there alone, and so they scrambled another team of, this time
actually analysts and people that could be more qualified to judge
what was going on out there - left unattended a nuclear missile
out in the South Dakota prairie and got this other team across the
hills as fast as they could in the night, and this second team
containing people that I actually knew personally, saw this object
on the silo and about at the same time, they were able to get a
helicopter crew in, also carrying another team of analysts like
myself out of the barracks at three o'clock in the morning, nine
o'clock, I don't know what it was - eleven o'clock or twelve
o'clock at night, and they brought them in range of that. And, you
know what's so strange after all this time, is that a year later when
this happened in Malmstrom Air Force Base as now documented
on those sites, that whole command crew had no knowledge of
what had happened at Ellsworth.
SG: That's right.
Caller: This terrible compartmentalization that we worked under,
the Secrecy Act that we worked under, kept that word from
spreading, so commanders in Malmstrom Air Force Base, when
they had exactly the same sequence and that - they documented
242
that with letters from Boeing, the prime contractor. They took
those - of course, we had to take those missiles out of the silo to
find out what happened to them, that was our job, and so the first
thing we did was pull those missiles and pull those cans (those
guidance and control packages) and got them back to Boeing so
they could see what had happened and they decided it was
spurious current and this kind of thing. But I was right there
while it was happening. It was a nice summer night, early
summer night, and I listened to it on the radio - you know, the Air
Force radios, and I saw the helicopters come back in with
photographers on them, this kind of thing. Talked to the wing
commanders while it was going on.
AB: Doctor, these are the kind of people you want to talk to,
right?
SG: Exactly, and I would encourage this gentleman and people
like him to contact us at DisclosureProject.org and I will
personally be in touch with him.
Caller: I will certainly do that.
SG: Thank you, and the point is that what he is saying is
something we have dozens of corroborating witnesses for, and as
you mentioned, there were similar events going on in the former
Soviet Union and we have an enormous collection now of KGB
documents and others regarding this sort of event. And because it
was happening on both sides of the Cold War, it was quite clear
that these extraterrestrial vehicles were trying to say, "Please do
not engage these missile systems in a launch that will result in the
termination of life on this planet." So that's not an act of hostility,
that is an act of enlightened guidance, and I think that
unfortunately, what this gentleman just shared is very important.
The compartmentalization of intelligence prevented one hand
from knowing what the other had was doing, not only between
Russia and the United States, but between and amongst Air Force
personnel or agencies. I'll tell you a story that's very interesting.
The Commander-in-Chief, Atlantic Command, Admiral Harry
Trane was present at a facility in Norfolk [Virginia] (which is the
Atlantic Command facility) when an enormous extraterrestrial
vehicle came in off the north-northeastern coast of North
America [in] broad daylight. It was tracked, eventually on at least
five separate radar stations. It was photographed by gun-camera
footage by pilots, it - uh - we have a witness who was in the
Command Center, who had zebra stripes on his uniform which
means that you could only be there during a full code zebra alert,
which is what you go to during a nuclear war and similar such
emergencies. This event took place and the Admiral, because he
had not been adequately briefed on this issue, gave the orders for
our military jet fighters to force this object down, if possible.
Now, they didn't, but the order was given. Now this is a very
dangerous situation, and one of the things I - when I met with the
General at the time who was head of the Defense Intelligence
Agency, whom I personally briefed for over an hour, I said, "One
of the dangers of this because of the super-secret nature of this
subject is that enormous mistakes have been made, and can be
made in the future that threaten our National Security." And in
this sense you have an Admiral who is one of the Commanders
(the Commander-in-Chief, Atlantic Command) giving the order
to down an extraterrestrial vehicle because they don't know that
they exist. They don't know why they're here. Initially, they
thought it might be a Soviet missile coming in, and it wasn't.
They got on the "hotline" and connected with the Soviet Union
and found out that in fact, it was not Soviet.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AB: Um Hm.
SG: And then we ended up scrambling jets all the way from the
northeastern United States, all the way to Florida! And if you
read the testimony of this witness, Merle Shane McDow (had a
top-secret clearance) this thing then took off, went over the
Azores, it tilted about sixty degrees and then - zip! Went right out
into space. Now, the interesting part of this is not only the fact
that you had an Admiral who was completely overwhelmed by
the event because he had not been adequately briefed, but the
reaction to it, which could have been catastrophic. What if we
had engaged that object violently and militaristically and resulted
in its destruction? This is the sort of thing that is very dangerous
and what this gentleman [the caller] just shared, which is a very
important bit of testimony, is that he was present at an event that
happened well before the event that Colonel Arneson and other
witnesses we have describe at Malmstrom, but they were not
privy to that prior event and therefore, they also could have taken
measures that could have been injurious to our national security,
could have been injurious to themselves, or to these visitors. So,
there is a tremendous risk with the level of secrecy going on here
when you have these sort of commanders left in the dark.
AB: I can't remember whether it was STS-48 or one of the -
(several of the missions, actually - captured footage which
appeared to show objects in space being fired at by something
rising out of the atmosphere and taking definite evasive
measures. So, there might be evidence, perhaps even space-
based, that we are firing at these things.
SG: Well, there is evidence and I have multiple independent
corroborating witnesses who have worked in projects where they
have developed systems to do this. Now, I remember telling Mrs.
Buttros Ghali personally (Leah Ghali, the wife of the Secretary-
General of the U.N.) that these sort of things, these sort of events
were occurring and that this was a threat to world peace like we
have never seen; that you have a rogue, unsupervised group of
people taking actions like this that endanger our security, and
within the vacuum of this secrecy - part of the problem Art, is
that within this vacuum of secrecy, there's not enough discourse.
There's not enough sharing of information and perspective to
prevent these things from getting out of control, and that's one of
the really great risks of this kind of super-secret, unacknowledged
project.
AB: But, something here just doesn't make sense. I mean, if
we've made a deal with them, or -
SG: We haven't made a deal with them. That's all pop-culture
nonsense.
AB: All righty! Then - then we're obviously in fear of them. We
wouldn't be firing missiles and put up chase planes and fire at
these things if we were at all comfortable with them. So,
militarily we're certainly not, and if a small cabal of people know
about it somewhere, and we've got our military shooting at them,
we've got a definite conflict of interest here.
SG: Yeah, we have a problem, not because there's a threat. We
have a problem because the people dealing with this are people
who are trained to look at everything they don't understand as a
possible threat. I have to be very careful what I'm saying here.
243
AB: That's the way they're trained.
SG: That's the way they're trained. But this is the danger of
having people like Senator Clayborne Pell kept out of the loop,
this is the danger of having people...the reason for disclosure is
that there is an enormous benefit to getting not only the
technologies out but the information out and there's a tremendous
risk to having, if you will, our wise elders in our society and
other people being not only deceived on the issue but flat-out
denied any access or control over it. So I would say that if you
look at a document, a letter that was written by Admiral Roscoe
Hillenkoeter, who was the first CIA director. He wrote this letter
where he said that the secrecy surrounding this issue is a threat to
the national security. I'm being very careful of what I'm saying
here. I'm quoting almost verbatim, although I don't have the
document in front of me. And it's important for people to
understand that it wasn't that there was a threat from these
extraterrestrial vehicles, it was that it was a threat to the national
security arising from the extreme and dysfunctional secrecy that
evolved around it. And of course, all you have to do is turn to
what the - our President Eisenhower said when he said that "there
was a threat to our liberties and to the world of the unwarranted
influence, whether sought or unsought by the military-industrial
complex" and I am quoting verbatim now.
AB: Yes, I know.
SG: My point is that I am not anti-military at all. In fact, our
biggest supporters in what the DisclosureProject.org is doing, are
military people. I cannot tell you how sincerely people in the
senior ranks of the Pentagon have told me that they are appalled -
appalled - at how this has been managed and how it is very
dangerous. If you imagine, here I am an emergency doctor, and
I've been invited to brief the sitting head of intelligence for the
Joint Chiefs of Staff...
AB: That in itself ...
SG: ...and he was given by me, the code names and code
numbers of these covert programs that were current as of the
1990's.
AB: Yeah, I bet he loved hearing that.
SG: He loved hearing it. He inquired into these operations and he
was told, and I'm quoting: "Sir, you don't have a need to know."
So, by the time I met with him, he was hopping mad. He said,
"What the hell do you mean, I don't have a need to know? I'm the
head of Intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff!"
AB: [chuckles]
SG: And here I am sitting there trying to explain to him why he
doesn't know and what's really going on. Now, this is 'through the
looking glass', my friend. Here I am, you know I'm an emergency
doctor taking care of heart attacks and car wrecks and stabbings
and shootings and I'm here sitting with one of the highest ranking
military people in the world trying to explain why he's being lied
to and denied access to these projects. It is very dangerous. This
kind of secrecy is not only illegal, but it is a threat to the national
security of the United States and to world security.
AB: Is it illegal?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
SG: It absolutely is.
AB: Let's think about that. In what - how is it illegal,
specifically?
SG: Okay. If you have projects that deliberately lie to a sitting
U.S. president and lie to their commanders-in-chief, like the man
I just described, and lie to the supervisory committees and
members of key committees in the Congress - and I'm going to
say something here and I don't mean to overstate my position, but
I'm the only living person who has met with all of the above, who
is in the UFO community. And if those people are being lied to
and deceived and denied access to these projects, there is no way
that they are operating under legal, constitutional authority! They
are a priori, and on their face, illegal operations. So this is one of
the reasons why I said the gentleman who just called in (who is a
wonderful military witness) really should not view it as an
unpatriotic act to come forward because really what they are
doing is blowing the whistle on the biggest illegal operation in
the history of the world that has bankrupted our country and has
brought the world to the brink of environmental and geopolitical
catastrophe, and it is time for people to stand up and say
"Enough!"
AB: Are they going to? Are they starting to?
SG: Yes, absolutely. We have a constant number of people like
this gentleman who just called in, who are willing to come
forward and to give their information and the next phase of this,
of course, is to find the scientists who understand the physics
behind these systems to begin to come forward and bring out the
actual operational energy and propulsion systems.
AB: Doctor, is it fair to say that this began post-1945, or have we
been visited since - I don't know, the beginning? Or did
everything really begin to happen post-'45, or '48?
SG: Well, I think that there was an enormous increase in activity
after we detonated the first nuclear weapons over Hiroshima,
Nagasaki, and at the Trinity site at White Sands. There's clear
evidence that they were alarmed. The former editor of Flying
Saucer Review, Gordon, told me that in his opinion, we had
basically kicked a hornet's nest because when we started
detonating thermonuclear weapons at the same time we began to
have the early capabilities of rocketry and going into space, a big
red flag came up over Earth and said, "Oops! Society at Risk!"
Not only at risk for ourselves, but potentially looking down the
road at risks to other civilizations. I mean, let's step back, if we
can, just for a moment and look at this situation through the eyes
of a civilization that's observing us, that have passed this way
before...
AB: Right.
SG: ...and have been able to survive the level of evolution we are
at today. And they see a civilization that in one person's life span
have gone from an agrarian society to a society launching
vehicles into space; has gone from having muskets and rifles to
having thermonuclear weapons. You would have to think that
there would be some concern there - and warranted concern. So, I
believe that that's what we're dealing with and it's a very serious
problem that in my opinion and in the opinion of Brigadier
General Lovekin and President Eisenhower, according to him,
244
has been not in the best of hands. It has been terribly mismanaged
and what we have to begin to say is that "How do we correct this
problem? Let's not just whistle past the graveyard, let's fix it."
AB: Well, it's always made sense to me that the nuclear
detonation would have been like a gigantic light bulb going off to
anybody watching us, and where were the first major sightings,
and maybe the crash? Roswell!
SG: Yes, Roswell was the only nuclear bomb squadron in the
world.
AB: Not a coincidence.
SG: Not a coincidence. And the information I have from former
Colonel Corso - people who knew him very well told me that
when he was at White Sands, that there were enormously
important close encounters that happened there over the first
birthplace of the atomic weaponry and, if you look at the
testimony we have at DisclosureProject.org, and in the books and
videos we have, Colonel [Ross] Diedrickson, who was with the
Atomic Energy Commission talks about that every single nuclear
weapons storage area and facility - not just Malmstrom and the
Strategic Air Command, but the manufacturing and assembly
facilities were being visited by these vehicles because there was,
apparently, great concern about that.
AB: All right, hold it right there, we're at the bottom of the hour
and we'll be right back with Dr. Steven Greer. I'm Art Bell.
[commercial break]
AB: ...Dr. Steven Greer is here and what he has to say is very
sobering [Art gives out his email address –
artbell@mindspring.com or artbell@aol.com]...
Also - for my guest, Dr. Greer. People want to get hold of you.
People want to learn more. People maybe - I don't know - maybe
they want to join the effort, they want to help, they have
information to give you. How do they get hold of you?
SG: Well, I think that they can get hold of me best through
DisclosureProject.org which is our web site, and I would
particularly encourage any of these military witnesses who want
to come forward to contact me, as well as any of the people who
may have knowledge of these energy and propulsion systems that
they can demonstrate because we are poised to bring these out to
the public and would like to do so over the next year or two, if at
all possible, and we're open to people doing that. We have
another web site for the energy company, which is
SeasPower.com, and people with the energy and propulsion
systems who want to have us evaluate them for them can contact
us there.
AB: Have you taken stills and video of the contacts you've had?
SG: Yes, we have a number of videos. In fact, we have a
wonderful videotape of a very large triangular formation that
came over Mt. Shasta, in fact, a few years ago, and we have these
from a number of places. When we were in Florida and
Pensacola, we had four of these objects appear. Three of them
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
made a triangular formation and signaled with us for, oh, fifteen
or twenty minutes, maybe longer. So, we do have these things
from around the world, and more importantly, we have some
wonderful participants and witnesses who have been present
during these events and it's really a wonderful thing to see.
AB: Doctor, I started - I began to ask you this before, but I really
want to pin it down. You say "signaled with you" and my
question was "Have you had anything that went beyond
signaling, anything that imparted information that you could tell
us about in any way at all?
SG: Well, I think that at this stage we're really primarily focusing
on what ability do we have to get these objects onto site and have
them interact with us and I think that's really the stage where we
are. I mean, there's not the sort of sense of sort of sitting down
over coffee and having an exchange of information...
AB: No.
SG: ...at this point...
AB: No.
SG: ...and that's really, I think, premature, but my sense of it is
that there's a lot that's communicated through the willingness to
communicate. Think about - it's a very simple thought - if you see
an object in our atmosphere, or exo-atmospheric even, and they're
able to interact with us, what does it say about the potential that
we have as a society to create communication with life in outer
space, with life in the universe? This is a very exciting prospect
and even if it's in a very preliminary stage at this point, it speaks
volumes about the potential down the road if we would organize
ourselves around doing it. I have to say there are growing
numbers of people who are interested in exploring that and
exploring this whole issue. One of the ... I don't know if you
received - I think we sent you this paper that's coming out
actually tomorrow on August 10, that's titled "The
Unacknowledged Threat: Illegal Covert Operations and the
Risk to World Peace and the Environment," and this is a paper
that I was invited to write for the World Affairs Journal, which
is one of the most prestigious foreign, international relations
journals in the world. People like George Soros and Colin Powell
and others have written in, and there's a special edition coming
out tomorrow of the Journal that talks about this sort of secrecy
and what's going on in the world, and so, in a sense, you have to
understand this is a journal that virtually every Prime Minister
and Foreign Minister in the world reads, and in it I describe not
only the nature of these illegal covert operations, but the risk to
our society of the secrecy and within that, the promise of contact.
We have to begin to look at this seriously, and one of the things
that we're doing is to move this into serious debate and serious
investigation by people in "the mainstream" and I think that this
is very important for us to do. And if you look at what we're
doing with the CE-5 initiative, where we take people - lay people.
I mean it's everyone from - we've had rocket scientists, and we've
had housewives with us out here doing this - who say "Well,
look. Let's see what we can do to contact these objects." And
when one appears in the sky...
AB: Yes.
245
SG: ...and they see you and you see them and they start
interacting with you, it is a cosmic moment. It's a truly amazing
thing. Maybe, Art, you can come with us on one of these.
AB: Well, maybe. But, then it seems logical to pursue the next
step, which would be some limited form of transmission of data
back and forth, or an attempt at that. Any idea how you might
pursue that?
SG: Well, I think there are a number of ways. One is that
eventually I'm quite sure that there will be the potential for a
landing of one of these craft and communication with the
occupants and this is something that when it happens, then it's
documented. It'll have to happen at a time when the world is
ready for that. Now, I would say that the world should have been
ready for this fifty years ago, but because they've been lied to and
mislead about the subject, we're playing a game of catch up so
(and I don't mean Heinz ketchup, I mean catching up) And this is
one of the real problems of the current time we're in. But I think
that this is something that is very doable and I don't believe that
it's something that is futuristic. I don't think we're talking
hundreds of years from now. But remember, they're looking, as
we all are, at the entire global situation and so long as we have
this dysfunction where there are lies being perpetrated on the
subject, and fear-mongering being perpetrated, how far can you
take this kind of open contact? This is where the CE-5 initiative
and our attempt to make contact with these objects coincide with
the Disclosure Project because society has got to not only know
about it but find a way of dealing with this issue in a way that is
not violent and is not militaristic. We haven't done that yet. We
should have done it in the '50s and '60s. We didn't and now it's
time that we need to do it, so -
AB: If you managed contact on the level you were just talking
about, why don't you imagine the military, becoming aware of
that fact, would take it out of your hands so quickly?
SG: Well, they are aware of it. I can tell you that when I was first
approached by senior military people, who are in these covert
programs, was after we had established this kind of contact at
fairly close range in Florida, and in Belgium, and in Mexico. And
I was visited by the former head of Army Intelligence and a
whole bunch of other "spooks" who basically said to me, "what in
the hell are you doing?" and I mean, quite frankly that's what they
said, and I said, "Look, you know, we really have in a sense
discovered the 'Rosetta Stone' of interspecies communication,"
and we don't have time in this show to go into that, but the fact is
that it can be done and it needs to be done because we cannot
cede the high ground of contact between our culture and these
other civilizations to a purely militarized effort, and I was very
clear about that. This was in 1992, April of '92 when I met with
these gentlemen. They were trying to persuade me to cease and
desist from doing this. I did not -
AB: Really? Really? In a forceful manner?
SG: Well, it's always very subtle, but, yeah, it was threatening
and I was taken to a hotel room 'til three in the morning, and -
whatever it was, very late - and there were sixty-four questions,
and basically, one of them said, "What the hell do you think
you're doing?" and I said "Look. I'm a citizen of the Earth who is
aware that we're not alone. And I think that it's time that there are
people who are reasonably aware and enlightened, and
reasonably peaceful in their orientation to the future, to step up to
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the plate and try to make some sense of this, rather than a purely
paranoiac and military approach."
AB: And it ended amicably?
SG: It ended amicably. Subsequently, about a month later, I was
at another retreat up in the Rockies, and this group tried to entice
me into joining this.... I was offered a Board seat on the covert
group that deals with this. I was offered enormous sums of
money,...
AB: Oh?
SG: ...enormous access to technology. I said, "No, thank you."
They then went to my wife, God bless her, and tried to convince
her to convince me. She thought they were charming. I said they
were rogues. And I said, "No, thank you," and that's where we
left it and then within about thirty days of me saying "Absolutely
not, I'm not going to do this. I'm going to stay an independent
free agent for the truth," every kind of defamation of my
character, up to and including claims that I wasn't actually a
medical doctor appeared on the internet. So you can only imagine
the kind of nightmare my life has been since 1992.
AB: Of course, and now threats! Now telephone threats.
SG: Right. But you know what? We're going just keep on
keeping on, because I think the people need to know the truth. I
believe in a good future for humanity, no matter how difficult the
current birth pangs of our transition may be. If we all pull
together, we'll be able to see the future of our dreams.
AB: Well, it's certainly true that your best place is right here,
right in the middle of the public eye. It's your safest place and I
guess you would make that case, wouldn't you, to military men
who are starting to get a little older and would like to talk?
SG: Yes. Let me tell you something that was said to me. You
know, one of the ways I've been very wise is that I know what I
don't know. I've never killed anyone in the emergency
department because I knew what I didn't know. Let me tell you,
what I didn't know about this stuff in 1990, when I stepped out
was a lot! And so when I had guys who were good men who
came to me who had experience in national security, military, and
these things, I listened! And one of the guys who came forward
was a national security lawyer. He said, "If you want to live to
see tomorrow, you don't walk but you run and you get millions of
people to hear what you're doing and you keep them informed in
real time or they will erase you." And he told me this and I
looked at him like he was a nut and it turned out the man knew
what he was talking about, but I listened to his advice and I said,
"You know what? The vanguard, our shield in getting the truth
out, is the public." It's not all these big shots. It's not all these
high officials, and I've met with them all, it's you the people.
You, the people, are the people who can make this happen and
can also watch our backs and that's why we're out here talking
with people.
AB: So the best thing other than those witnesses that you
obviously want to talk to, the best thing for the general public to
do in trying to support you - and a lot of them want to support
you in your effort - is to what? Just be in touch?
246
SG: Write their member of Congress, and the President saying
they want a disclosure. Help us find these technologies that are
hidden in people's garages that have been suppressed. Help us
find more witnesses like this wonderful man who called in
tonight, maybe pray for us - I mean - quite frankly, I'm not a
religious person, but hey! You know, I would like for people to
please hold us in Light and pray for our guidance and we want to
do this because I think the time has come for the truth to be
known and I appreciate anything that people can do to help.
AB: All of this said, do you take precautions for your - I mean,
it's not just you, it's your wife, it's staff members - do you take
some precautions?
SG: Yes, we take very good precautions and it happens on many
levels and one of the levels is that there are substantial groups in
this covert structure who very much support what we're doing
and they have warranted to me our safety and the safety of all my
witnesses. The proof of the matter is that I'm still breathing the
free air of Earth...
AB: True.
SG: ...and none of these military witnesses, even the ones with
top secret SCI [Special Compartmented Intelligence] clearances
up into the '90s have never even received a phone call threatening
them, and I think that - what I say to people is that "Don't be
intimidated by the threats. Look at the good future and do the
right thing." The only thing I ever ask myself is, "Can I look in
the mirror and say 'Am I doing the right thing?'" If the answer's
yes, I'll do it! And so I really don't care otherwise whether or not
someone wants to threaten me, and I have never - I will tell you
that I have a military advisor that's been with me since the early
'90s who, when it came up at a meeting once about the security of
me and my family, he stopped the discussion and said "This is
something we do not need to worry about." And this man has the
gravity to deliver. So that's where we are.
AB: Okay, and on the other side of the coin, you must be very
gratified that with tonight, ABC apparently has decided to do a
very serious effort - they tell me, they promise me, two to three
hours long. I mean, this is kind of what you've been waiting for,
so there must be some gratification in this for you, isn't there?
SG: Oh, yes, of course, and in meeting with the producers I think
that there is a sincere attempt and I really think that Peter
Jennings is the kind of man who's independent thinking enough
that, if he's presented with the facts, he will present them to the
public, and I hope he stays in that state of integrity throughout the
process because I know that there will be pressures for him to get
off the path and to do a sort of "spun" ridiculing piece about it.
AB: Well, I don't expect that.
SG: I don't expect it, and I think that it's a very good - and
believe me, for a journal like the World Affairs Journal, which is,
as I mentioned, read by virtually every Head of State and Foreign
Minister in the world - to personally invite me to do a special,
5,000 word article on this issue is unprecedented.
AB: Well, as you know, Peter Jennings is Canadian. I read a
story in the first hour of the program tonight entitled: "Canadian
Skies Abuzz With UFOs In Route to a Record Year. More
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Sightings of UFOs in Canada this Year than in Recorded
History." That's something!
SG: Well, I just had a senior minister with the Canadian
government contact me. This is something that I won't say who it
is.
AB: Oh!
SG: But a very - we're talking a major player in a G-7, G-8
country, who is extremely interested in this subject, particularly
as it pertains to the environment and the energy and propulsion
systems that we're working on and so I would say that there's
some very good movement north of the border. There's some
very good movement within Congress, by the way, with people
we've met with. And so, what we have to say is that, yeah, look.
It's an uphill battle. There's a Goliath out there, maybe we're
David, I don't know, but we're going to try. The fact of the matter
is this is the deck we've been dealt and we've got to deal with it
the best we can.
AB: The U.S. seems so far behind some other countries, notably
one to the north of us, Canada; Mexico to the south of us. Much
more involved publicly and from a government point of view
than the United States. It just seems so unlikely, unless we know
something they don't.
SG: Well, the fact is that we are the Super Power that is
straddling the Earth and we do have these technologies developed
very fully. While there may be other countries who have
significant case files such as in France and Spain and other
places, the fact of the matter is, we have had an intensive project
that is over fifty years old dealing with the technologies behind
these systems and because we're sitting on those secrets, that's
where the disinformation is greatest, the control is greatest, and
the risk is greatest, and for that reason it's most dysfunctional
here and I think that this is a serious problem that needs
resolution. I will say something here rather counterintuitive.
There are people within the covert group running the secrecy who
247
desperately want to see a solution to it, but they have painted
themselves into a corner and don't know how to get out of it.
Now, they're still a small minority, but if at one time, I was told
when I met with the - Clinton's first CIA director, Jim Woolsey, I
was told about a third of this policy group was in favor of
bringing this out. I'm told how, it's forty to fifty percent, so it's a
growing number of people who want to have this disclosed and
whether or not time is on our side remains to be seen. But,
certainly the truth is on our side and ultimately the truth will be
out there.
AB: Is there any indication, Doctor, that there have been
communications between the U.S. and other countries on this
topic? And we're almost out of time, dammit!
SG: Yes, I know. What a shame. But, look. Yes. Certainly within
these classified programs they are transnational and when I say
transnational, there are no national boundaries when you're
dealing with the corporate, financial and intelligence world on
this level of secrecy. It absolutely just busts through anything you
would consider a national border, and in a way, it's a rather
frightening image. One of the fascinating things about - I'll go
back to this "Manchurian Candidate" - believe me, I have no
connection to the film at all - but it was interesting how they
portrayed this enormous corporation as being this large global
corporation with para-governmental and military involvement as
well as financial involvement.
AB: That's it, Doctor, we're -
SG: That's what you're dealing with, so yeah, it's always been
transnational.
AB: Buddy, we're out of time! Thank you.
SG: Thank you.
AB: Thank you and good night. See you on ABC...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Rafael Palacios Interviews
Arthur Neumann a.k.a. “Henry Deacon”
Barcelona, Spain, July 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Start of Interview:
RAFAEL PALACIOS (RP): Well, I am in the press conference
of the Exopolitics area with a character... ‘HENRY DEACON’
(HD/AN): Arthur Neumann.
RP: ...a man that you are watching now that became famous
because of an interview by the Project Camelot in which he
didn’t show his face. And now, this is the first time. What’s your
name, please?
HD/AN: My name is Arthur Neumann. It’s a German last name,
Neumann. [Ed note: pronounced Noy-mann]
RP: You worked for 30 years in the research area, in very critical
areas?
HD/AN: Research, manufacturing, logistics... pretty much every
area of government and government contracting, but mostly
government.
I’ve held Top Secret ‘Q’ clearance at Livermore Labs, Lawrence
Livermore Labs. I’ve held Secret clearances in aerospace and
such. I’ve held Top Secret clearances, with certain extensions, up
until around 2004, working with other agencies.
RP: Can you say which is your specialty?
248
HD/AN: My specialty is a very general... with a wide spectrum
of technologies. Technologies. And also coordination, project
management, program management, not only with the
Department of Defense, working with all the military forces, but
also working with other countries’ military as well.
RP: For instance, do you know anything about the secret sonic
weapons, the electromagnetic weapons?
HD/AN: Yes, pulsed electronic weapons in general. Yes. I’ve
known of their existence and the research that’s been done. I’ve
been aware of it, the inside, with the research of weapons, of
course, since the middle 1970s.
RP: Ah. Can you tell us which kind of weapons they have in
development, and which are the uses of these weapons?
HD/AN: There are so many weapons. There’s a microwave
bomb; the neutron bomb, of course... whatever; particle-beam,
acceleration-type bombs; particle-beam weapons; and many
different projects along those lines; then sound weapons, using
highly-focused, directed sounds.
RP: So, can you confirm to us that this government has weapons
in order to harass people, ‘special people’, ‘critical people’, [Ed
note: meaning to harass certain people who protest against or
criticize the government.] in order to make them distressed and
even make illness?
HD/AN: Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yes. There’s many different
technologies that are being used constantly, even in the cities, and
as well as just for specific targets, as well.
RP: These black helicopters that many researchers have told us
about, that are running above the homes, can you confirm that
they could be used in this area?
HD/AN: I don’t know who’s… I haven’t been in that for many
years. Black helicopters...
RP: What I am talking about... There are certain people,
researchers… Yes.
HD/AN: Some of them are black helicopters and some of them
look like helicopters, but they’re not helicopters.
RP: So what are they?
HD/AN: They’re just... I don’t know the details on those
helicopters. I just know that some of them are just... Ah...what do
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
you call it? Kind of cloaked to look like helicopters; but, that was
years ago, so I don’t know what’s happening now.
RP: What’s that, in fact?
HD/AN: Surveillance.
RP: Surveillance. Okay.
HD/AN: Surveillance and maybe, possibly some abduction-type
work, but not by aliens.
RP: Ah-ha. So you, the scientist that work, or worked, in these
classified programs, are you conscious of the people who worked
with you? Are you conscious that you were working for the bad
people? Or you just do the job and you forget the use of this work
they are going to do?
HD/AN: There are good people working, and there are bad
people working inside. And there are people who have families
they want to take care of, and so they’re trapped in the job
because, otherwise, they have no job.
It’s always a battle internally as to – for some people – as to
whether to resign and have no job, or continue, and then...
There’s a lot of discussion about that.
My intention, from the very beginning, has been – from the
beginning, when I was a child – has been to go inside, and then
learn, and then move on. And go inside again, and learn, and
move on to another position, in different places.
So I’ve never been in one place. The maximum time I worked for
one place was, maybe, at most, three or four years; four years.
Then I moved to another job.
But I didn’t apply. For most of these jobs, I never applied or
looked for the job. They’d just telephone me at random and find
me.
RP: Can you describe for us the way it works – this mechanism
of classifying? I mean, you work in Los Alamos or Livermore.
Can you describe for us, for people who don’t know anything,
how these laboratories work? The way they classify the special
information?
HD/AN: How they decide what to classify?
RP: No, I mean, you are in the kitchen, in the living room, with
all the scientists. Do you know what the other ones know? Or do
you only know a couple of the things? You know what I mean?
HD/AN: Yeah. For many jobs, it’s always compartments, you
know?
RP: That’s it.
HD/AN: Because that’s what you focus on, so you have no need
to know what’s happening somewhere else. You’re focused in a
certain area.
249
But as time progressed, my compartments expanded with more
compartments, until the last job I had, there were no
compartments at all that I was aware of, because of the nature of
the work.
I had... It was like on a team, where I had what we called
“customers,” and the customers included NSA and the other
three-letter agencies and four-letter agencies from different
countries, plus other customers that don’t have any names.
RP: Uh-huh.
HD/AN: I don’t know them by name, I just meet with them. So
no compartmentalization was necessary. Because of the work... I
was “volunteered” to work on a small team, to kind of filter the
information between these different organizations.
RP: Can you explain to us the goals of these projects in
particular?
HD/AN: That project in particular... The goal was multiple
goals, but it was to try and find a way for these different groups
to communicate, and yet respect their privacy – what they don’t
want – between each other, because they don’t what to openly
share information between each other completely. But to find a
way, a mechanism, for them to be able to communicate what they
want communicated in a secure manner.
RP: A secure Internet? Something like that?
HD/AN: That too, yes; yeah, but with a filtering.
RP: Filtering. Uh-huh.
HD/AN: So that means that I had to have access to all of their
information. So, that just happened, you know.
RP: As well as you know about telecommunications, can you tell
us if... Everybody’s worried about the Big Brother and they, these
people, know everything about us?
HD/AN: Well, you can’t hide anything.
RP: Yes?
HD/AN: Right now we’re having the interview. I’m pretty
certain that everything is very well-documented, you know. It’s
just a matter of whether they have an interest in it or not, you
know.
So you don’t have any privacy. Especially in the electronic era,
every transaction you do, every phone call, every hotel and place
you stay, every person you meet, everything... [laughs] It sounds
like a song: They’ll be watching you.
But it’s not... Nothing to fear. This is the important thing, to stop
being afraid of everything, because that fear is…
Today what we need to focus on is the opposite of fear. It’s to
look forward and be happy about this baby that I spoke of, that’s
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
being born, and celebrate the change, and realize that there’s pain
involved in this change.
These black factions and such, these dark operations, they are
very weak. They’re very weak and powerless.
RP: Really?
HD/AN: Yes, they’re very weak. Especially if you realize, if you
can understand, that we’re living in a Galaxy full of worlds and
people – people like you and me, basically – that have gone
through the same experiences as the people here on Earth. The
same experiences, long ago. And it’s a continuing thing, and they
already know what’s going to happen.
But they’re watching this change happen now, and they’re
supporting it and helping, gently and quietly, behind scenes. And
if you’re aware of that, then you don’t have anything to be afraid
of.
RP: Why are you so sure of that?
HD/AN: Because I’ve met so many of these people.
RP: Ah. Tell us, tell us.
HD/AN: I met these people even before I worked, you know,
and for other reasons which I’d rather not explain on video right
now, because of where I come from, as well.
RP: Where do you come from?
[this portion of the video edited out at the request of Arthur
Neumann]
RP: But can you tell us if the First Contact is close, as they say,
all of the people? The First Contact that would be…
HD/AN: The First Contact, I think, that’s planned is not a real
contact. The plan is a fictitious threat. But this fictitious threat...
If you see UFOs and they’re mechanical or such, the highest
probability is that...
250
Especially if they look like a threat or an enemy, just realize that
that’s only temporary and they’re not from another place, another
planet. They are a created enemy, as part of the government’s
story.
RP: So you confirm the secret government has these tools, this
technology?
HD/AN: They’ve had the technology and the tools for a long
time.
RP: Yeah.
HD/AN: I mentioned the Report from Iron Mountain, which
many people say is just science fiction. It’s not science fiction,
because that same material was handed to me in a meeting in
Tucson, Arizona, in the 1980s.
RP: Directly?
HD/AN: Yeah, directly, in a meeting. Yes. A government
meeting that I went to.
RP: You read it.
HD/AN: It was a surprise to me because I didn’t know what the
nature of the meeting was.
We were flown to Tucson, Arizona, and stayed at a hotel room.
Then we got together, and at the end of the first meeting, they
handed out the Report from Iron Mountain – not in book form,
but in paper format. And that’s where I first learned of the plans
from the Rand Corporation.
RP: Ah-ha. Well, you’re the first person I know that confirms
that. The Iron Mountain is confirmed.
HD/AN: It is. I don’t have the paperwork anymore, but it was
close, or almost exactly the same thing as in the book that’s now
in print again.
RP: So, for you the swine flu epidemic is just part of this plan?
HD/AN: I can’t say. Epidemics are natural things. There are
natural epidemics, of course, you know. But, in my opinion, the
swine flu is... In this case, this is a dangerous thing, but it’s my
opinion only. My preparation is to take vitamin D3. “D”, the
letter “D”, 3.
RP: What’s that?
HD/AN: A vitamin.
RP: A vitamin. Vitamin, okay.
HD/AN: Vitamin D3, 2,000 IU – 2,000 International Units –
every day. Up to 5,000. For certain reasons, the sun converts in
your skin – when it hits your skin – into vitamin D3, but because
of the nature of the sun now, and other factors, that won’t work in
this case.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
But for general “agripe”, you call it?
RP: Ah. Agripe. Yeah. Flu.
HD/AN: Or flu, any kind of flu. Vitamin D3 will reduce your
chances greatly of getting any kind of flu, okay? So I recommend
that as a supplement, and for other reasons, too, that have nothing
to do with flu.
RP: The vaccine? Do you ever recommend for people to…?
HD/AN: I won’t take the vaccine. I told my family members not
to, as well. I told them two years ago, three years ago, not to do
this.
On the Project Camelot site, there’s some documentation, I
believe, that was from long ago that I talked about the flu. This
was before anything came in the news. So I knew this in advance.
RP: You know that the American people, they are telling them
some information. [unclear] saying that the government is going
to oblige… oblige...
HD/AN Make it obligatory.
RP: ...make it obligatory to the people to take it, no?
HD/AN: This, of course, is the plan, is to make it obligatory with
heavy penalties and fines, you know. But I still won’t take it. I
will not take the vaccine, especially if it’s forced. I don’t take flu
vaccines anyway.
RP: Do you think that the secret government has already contact
with other extraterrestrial beings, such as the Zeta Reticulan
reptilians, and this kind of stuff?
HD/AN: When people talk about “the secret government”...
First if all I’d like to mention that the governments... Like when
we talk about the level of the presidents or the royal families or
such, they don’t have access to this information or knowledge, as
far as I know.
This is what my experience has been, is they only can go through
certain levels of security, and then the rest... For touring, you
know, for This is what we have, you know, and this and that. So
they’re not aware of what’s happening off-world.
RP: Yeah.
HD/AN: They have no communication with these people. So
when you ask about ‘secret government’, I need to know what
you mean by “secret government”.
RP: Who has the power? Kissinger? “Gafaird”? [unclear] Who?
Who is in charge?
HD/AN: You have power. You’re in charge of running the
interview.
251
RP: Yeah.
HD/AN: So it’s different levels of power or strength of power, I
mean, in each person.
RP: So you don’t believe this is well-centralized in three
persons? Something like that? Do you believe this...? There are
some people who say that there are a couple of people, or several
people, that have this power concentrated in…
HD/AN: Oh, the people that… There are small groups that meet
that do have power, including one that I mentioned in the Zurich
conference that I don’t want to mention again, a three-letter
agency that isn’t spoken about very much.
RP: Dealing with satellites and so on, for instance?
HD/AN: Yeah, that one.
RP: Okay.
HD/AN: But the thing is that, ultimately, they still have their
limits as to what power they really have. They want power and
they’ve been trying to have power for a long time, but in the next
few years, they will completely lose all of their power. Very
shortly.
RP: Why?
HD/AN: Because of all the changes that are taking place and
converging now.
RP: So, what’s the role of the humankind in all these stories?
This is something, like a government, some people like here, in
the special project, in a higher level position. But we the people,
what can we do in this story?
HD/AN: The best thing people can do... The best thing is very
simple. If you have different belief systems, different religions,
you need to open up your heart and realize that we’re all here
together, and respect each other’s beliefs as best as possible.
Understand that we share a common ancestry, not just here, but
our whole Galaxy. Our Galaxy, we have a common…
RP: A Galactic Consciousness.
HD/AN: It’s the Galaxy. Not the Universe, but the Galaxy.
But right now we need to just focus on what happens here on the
planet and help each other. Stop fighting over “my God and your
God”, you know. It doesn’t make any difference.
RP: But do you think some person in the streets, the common
people, could be putting pressure on the government in order to
disclose the information?
HD/AN: If you want to do something, do it in a non-violent way.
RP: Yeah, of course. Of course.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
HD/AN: If you have anger, that will just support the agendas of source software? Could be a Linux way of creating flying
the people who are trying to have power over you. saucers? [laughs]

HD/AN: It’s going to be released from many, many different

sources. Just from people, probably in here in the conference,
even, today. There are people who are working on these projects.

RP: Yeah, really?

HD/AN: Yeah, and businesses that are coming forward.

RP: Businesses?

HD/AN: Yeah, they’re all new businesses.

RP: Ah. Okay.

HD/AN: So it’s slowly coming…

But this, again, is a very temporary thing. All this fighting and all
this suppression is temporary. Even if you don’t do anything
RP: Brian O’Leary, for instance, is in this field? Brian O’Leary,
outwardly, the change... it will still take place.
your friend?

The birth of the new world – not the New World Order they push
HD/AN: Yes, he’s in this business. Well, I don’t know what he’s
– but the new world will still happen very shortly. You should
doing with the machines or anything.
feel this and be aware of this.

But as far as zero-point energy technology... In its best form, I

RP: Two short questions just to finish. One, first one, can you
could describe it as: You can have just a small little box that
tell us the secret technologies that may come, may free ourselves,
looks like this and it could direct conversion into electrical
when the secret government falls?
energy, or whatever you want.

HD/AN: Well, there are technologies, of course, using the

There’re no moving parts, no mechanical spinning magnets, or
Casimir Effect or the zero-point energy. That’s a definite. I
anything like that. It’s so simple that it looks like magic. And you
pointed it out in Zurich. It’s a definite.
can just do that, and you can power... With the correct wiring…

RP: It exists.
RP: What’s the key of the zero-point energy? What’s the key to
create it?
HD/AN: And this is not even classified information. It’s just you
need to know where to go to see it. I’m talking about in
HD/AN: Well, how does it work?
government [that] it’s not even classified.

RP: Yes.
And neither is gravity-shielding, which is similar to anti-gravity,
but it’s shielding. You take the material and you put it here,
something above it, and it lessens the... It shields the gravitational HD/AN: Well, there are different approaches. One of them is
force. basically a very, very small layering of materials... layering of
materials, almost like a capacitor is manufactured. Small layers
of material, and then we’re tapping the energy from that.
This technology exists and there are places you can go. You can
go to xxx.lanl.gov – Los Alamos National Labs dot gov. Go to
that website and then do a little search. Dig through their It’s a simple solid-state type of technology that can be used.
archives, their physics archives.
RP: Does zero-point energy have anything to do with orgone
RP: So we can have flying saucers in a short period of time using energy?
it?
HD/AN: I don’t know anything about orgone energy. I mean,
HD/AN: Yeah, you can have that. But the thing is that we need I’ve seen it, and I... I don’t have any experience with it.
to balance all this technology that is available or can become
public... We need to first work on the spiritual and the RP: Okay. The other question was about the Obama
sociological problems. administration. Would you expect anything positive about these
issues we are commenting on?
RP: But where are the plans, the maps, to do these flying
saucers? Do you think that’s going to be released, such as open
252
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
HD/AN: I’ve been up and down with my feelings about Obama,
you know, so I don’t know. It’s really not Obama, I don’t think.
I think it’s just what happens with this world as a whole is
really... Almost a natural event, or events, are happening. It’s not
a matter of whether someone makes a decision in office to release
information. This is all happening very naturally, you know. It’s
not any decision.
RP: We don’t need the government to release the information.
That’s what… [laughs]
HD/AN: They can attempt to, and they can shut it down. And
there may be a period of time where the Internet may slow down
a lot.
But then, we’re talking about... Who are “they”, you know? The
Internet was originally structured so that you cannot shut it down,
you know? So it may slow down, that’s all, slow down to a crawl.
And so, think about alternative ways of communication. A new
form of communication will come in a few years, where you
won’t need Internet any more anyway.

HD/AN: No. We don’t need government to release the RP: Which one? Telepathy?
information.
HD/AN: Something like that.
RP: I am very agreeing with you. I am very agreeing. We don’t
have to ask for the government to do it. RP: Ah, that’s it.

HD/AN: And don’t expect the government to have any HD/AN: And people will just... It will be a natural thing, too.
information to release to you, because the governments... Like I
was talking about, the governments don’t have this information to
release. RP: Heart communication, you know.

This information’s already in the public domain. It’s just
coming... It’s like flowers growing out of the soil, you now. It’s
blooming everywhere.
RP: We have the Internet that’s putting the information out to the
people.
HD/AN: Yes! That’s what’s happening at the conferences.
People will experience this, you know.
RP: Okay. Thank you so much for the information...
HD/AN: Yeah. Turn off your televisions!

HD/AN: And also, great inventions and things in the past have RP: ...for your bravery, and for your courage.
been discovered simultaneously in different places on the planet.
How is this possible? It’s because it’s happening in a different HD/AN: Turn off your television set!
dimension, from a different dimension. This is how this
information is released. It’s not released through governments.
RP: Okay, I will do it.
RP: The information is in the Internet. Just for finishing the
interview, do you think they are going to close [down] the
freedom of the Internet? Can they do it?

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

253
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dr. Pete Peterson -
Interviewed by David Wilcock, Kerry Cassidy & Bill Ryan
Interior US, 29 June 2009
When we were introduced to Dr Pete Peterson by a mutual friend,
and spoke with him for the first time on the phone, we
immediately realized we were talking with someone who even by
Project Camelot standards had a quite enormous amount of high
quality information, backed by personal experience, on an
astonishingly large range of subjects.
We told our friend David Wilcock. David felt very strongly - as a
psychic intuitive - that we needed to visit Dr Peterson
immediately while he was willing to give on-record testimony.
So this interview straight away broke new ground: it was the first
Camelot interview in which David joined the two of us for the
interview. A few days later, Bill flew to the US from Europe for
the weekend especially for the meeting - which was held over
two long days.
We talked extensively off-record, and Dr Peterson was extremely
cautious about presenting some of his testimony on video. But we
nevertheless recorded nearly four hours of testimony. Listen
carefully to the questions and the answers - especially in Kerry's
Part 3 (Part 1 was Bill and Part 2 was David) - and enjoy the very
end of Part 2, just as that part of the interview fades. (This is our
favorite section, and we have very purposely left it in.)
Dr Peterson is an extremely well-informed insider - and a most
remarkable and brilliant scientist - who came forward to talk with
us publicly because he feels the issues he cares deeply about, and
knows about, are too important to keep silent about. We salute
his courage.
Among the many things Dr Peterson spoke about at length was
his strong, informed belief that there will be a melt-down of the
global economy - and US infrastructure - which may be almost
upon us; that Obama is planning to disclose the reality of ET
contact by the end of the year; and that most, but not all, of the
ET visitors are friendly.
254
There is much, much more. Here is a very general list of the
subjects we discussed:
• The probable (in Dr Peterson's strong opinion) collapse of the
economy, infrastructure, and law and order in the US
• The planned disclosure of the ET presence
• The Aurora (now retired from service and replaced by
vehicles capable of superluminal travel) and the TR3B (the
large flying triangle, which functions as an aircraft carrier)
• Artificial intelligence and advanced robotics
• The "information field" and how the body, the mind, and DNA
really function
• Healing modalities which work very rapidly and effectively
• 'Rescuing' brilliant scientists out of the old USSR
• How Mir (the Russian Space Station) was so heavy that it
could not have been assembled without 'help' from our
'friends' (or, to be exact, the Russians' friends)
• Time spent in the Vatican Library
• The existence of Sumerian high technology
• Quantum computing (off-camera, Dr Peterson held in his
hand a cheap quantum chip, which he had assembled
himself in his own laboratory, with the computing power of
10,000 PCs)
• The genius of James Clerk Maxwell, and why Einstein was
wrong
• Why you should not spend too much time in front of your new
Digital TV
• The reality of the US prison camps
• How President Obama was (in all probability) set up
• How he came to understand that 15% of the world's
population (of all races) have ET ancestry that can be seen in
their DNA - and are also resistant to mind control
technologies.
The release of this video was delayed because Dr Peterson was
concerned that it might contain some material that was just too
sensitive, and which might endanger us. He spent some time
checking with colleagues to ensure that we would be safe to
release the material. At the time of writing, he has not specified
what these sensitive parts of the video are - though one might
guess. We have taken the decision to take these risks upon our
own shoulders and to release the interview in its entirety. It has
not been cut.
We hope that those who have been waiting this for what feels (to
us also!) quite a long time may understand the complexities and
many factors involved, and that being a whistleblower is far from
a simple matter. Dr Peterson is a person of high integrity who is
very concerned about some of the problems faced by the human
race, and who to his immense credit feels that he must give a
warning. Besides the warning, as you will see, he offers a
substantial smorgasbord of fascinating information on a very
broad range of subjects.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Note: at the time of writing Dr Peterson is currently scheduled to
speak at the Project Camelot Awake and Aware Conference in
Los Angeles on 19-20 September. Don't miss this.
Enjoy the interview...
Bill Ryan
Kerry Cassidy
David Wilcock
4 September 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Intro:
Dr. PETE PETERSON (PP):
...It’s an area that’s very highly defendable. That was very
important because of my belief, and the belief of many other
people that I have great respect for, that the world is going
through a... I’ll call it a meltdown.
...Once the people found out what had done to them by their
representatives, they felt that it would be much better for their
health and safety to be somewhere else.
...My understanding, it was the third-ever closed session of
Congress.
...We found that no matter where the politician was and what
committee he was on, when top secret things were talked about,
they wanted to close the session early so they could get out and
put their tips out to the news. We don’t have any confidentiality
in that. It leaked out, I’m sure.
BR: Am I right in assuming that you wouldn’t contradict those
leaks?
PP: I wouldn’t contradict them at all.
BR: Thank you.
Beginning of Interview:
BILL RYAN (BR): This is Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from
Project Camelot and this is Monday, June the 29th, 2009. And
this is a Project Camelot interview with a difference because not
only have I flown the best part of 8,000 miles – at least it feels
like, if it's not quite that many – from Europe to be here for the
weekend, but we are also here with David Wilcock, who has also
flown from Los Angeles here for the weekend, to join us in a
meeting that we had with Dr. Pete Peterson, who’s a name that
not many people will know, but may be – among the many
extraordinary whistleblowers and contacts and researchers and
255
scientists who we have had the great pleasure of talking to – may
be one of the most important.
Yesterday we were talking off-record for the best part of twelve
hours and our minds are still digesting an enormous amount of
extraordinary information that he shared with us, some of which
is off-record. As much as possible, Pete is willing to put on
record here, on camera, because you feel, don't you, Pete, that
there is a profound and important reason why the sort of people
who will be watching this video need to hear what it is that you
have to say.
We want to salute you because you're a very brave man. One of
the things we want to ask you straight off the cuff is why is it that
you feel that you wanted to put some of your almost unbelievable
and very important testimonies on camera for a lot of people to
listen to and watch and understand at this time? Why is it that
you've come forward and you're talking to us now?
Dr. PETE PETERSON (PP): Well, I think the main reason for
that is I've had an inside insight for many, many years, having
been picked up in various programs to do things for the
government since I was 13 years old. Being a problem-solver, I
wish I could say that it was hard work and so forth, but I come
from a long line of inventors on both sides of my family tree, and
people who graduated from school very early and were
significant in affecting things that affected humanity, a number of
them, in virtually every kind of field and climate.
I see that the world seems to have gone downhill. I'm aware of
many programs to remove intelligence from people and return the
people, at least of this nation [America], to a mediocre status.
We've watched the school systems deteriorate. We've watched
the, as my wife likes to say, the program in the school systems
No child left with a mind. (That's her paraphrase for it.)
And I've seen that the type of government we have... though I'm a
patriot and very crudely use the phrase that I got the flag tattooed
on both cheeks of my fanny the hard way. I spent ten years in the
Marine Corps and a great part of that was in combat and combat
zones and other things I did for the government. I like to think
I'm unique in that I was probably shot at on most continents.
Anyway, what I see happening is a complete turn away from the
way this country started out and in its Constitution to what
appears to be headed toward a socialistic system where reason
and logic has no bearing.
It concerns me. I have no idea if my voice can help. I have no
idea if that can, but I know that my ideas, I have ideas, I have
inventions that have proven to be very helpful to society. Many
of them have been suppressed by the fact that we had a
government that was run by industry rather than by the people.
It's turned away from that, and many industries are actually
governed by rules and regulations that make it virtually
impossible for them to exist if they do things that are good for
humanity.
For example, we've had numerous things that have happened in
the industry of alternative power that were very inexpensive, very
capable. But what we do is we've, through their own legislation,
limited the power companies to being able to charge a certain
amount over and above their costs, so when their costs went
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
down, their profit went down and they couldn't economically
operate.
BR: What I would love to ask you about, Pete, before we go into
some of the stories that you have to tell – and we have good
reason to believe that, having spent the best part of twelve hours
yesterday talking about a tiny fraction of your experience, I think
that we could probably talk, literally, for days – what the people
watching this video are really concerned about, I think, is what
can you help them understand better than they do at the moment
about what's really happening on this planet at the moment? What
are the agendas of the controllers? How much trouble are we in
and what can people do?
And I want to put that question on hold because this is the
purpose of this video as far as we're concerned.
There's a whole separate topic, which is a technological topic,
because this man we're talking to now has told us about
technology that we didn't know existed. My brain is still reeling
over a conversation that we had at breakfast this morning about
which I'm going to say nothing.
Now, before we start all of that – and that was a wonderful
overview that you gave about your intentions – can you give us a
little bit of a timeline of your career history which started when
you were very young? A little bit about the kind of things you've
been involved in? We're not asking you to name names, but we
just want to present you as somebody who people can get some
kind of an idea of who this person is that we're talking to whose
name they haven't heard before.
PP: Well, I can do that. A very interesting thing we were talking
about... I have no idea where these thoughts came to me, but I
know that very early on in life I was so different from the people
around me that I thought that probably I fell from the sky in a
titanium egg and landed in my grandfather’s orchard and my
parents found me there.
BR: And I think you're probably right, actually, having talked to
you for two days.
[laughter]
PP: Until I was about 22, I actually believed that.
DAVID WILCOCK (DW): [touching Pete on the shoulder with
his finger] He is real. He's solid.
PP: Then I quit believing that when I was in my mid-20s and in
my last few years – I'm nearly 70 – and in my last few years, I've
started believing that again. Because I find that the people I'm
stuck with here on this little spaceship Earth don't seem to have
the same view of anything. It may be that I'm just wacky, but my
wackiness has made a lot of products and made a lot of sense to a
number of people throughout my life.
For some reason I... well, it’s probably genetics, because on both
of my parents’ sides I have long lines of geniuses that extend
back in history. I grew up in a home that was entirely powered
and heated and cooled, in a very temperate climate, was powered
by the sun and by atmospheric pressure change. It was a home
256
that had a gallery inside of it, much like Mexican haciendas, but
was covered, where we grew all of our meat products in the form
of chickens and rabbits and such, and where we grew all of our
food products.
BR: So you had an interesting and unusual upbringing.
PP: I had an interesting and unusual upbringing. We drove in cars
that my father made and invented. We lived in homes that my
father built out of strange materials that were very highly
insulated. My dad was a pioneer in tilt-up concrete buildings and
was an engineer for the military in my youth through the Second
World War.
BR: And you were hand-picked and chosen for a special program
when you were as young as 13. Is this correct?
PP: Yes, I distinguished myself at age 10 by building a number of
rockets that held world altitude records, and by inventing a
material that's used even today to power solid-fuel rockets. That
material got out of my hands because I'm not a businessman, and
wasn't a businessman, and freely gave it away and other people
capitalized on it. But I liked explosions, and so, early on, started
building rockets.
BR: There's a wonderful story that you told us yesterday that
we'd love to say again very briefly. I'm going to be using the
word briefly in my questions here with an apology, because we
know that you could talk with us, literally, for days about the
extraordinary experiences you've had, the things that you know,
the things you've been told, the things that you strongly believe
with good reason. But one of the stories that we wanted you to
tell is what happened one day, when you were ten years old, with
a bunch of adults, and you had an extraordinary experience.
PP: Well, I'll preface that just a little bit with the fact that, as I
was growing up, it was in a very small country town about three
blocks long and not a lot of people. My parents had a home that
had a formal garden, and many of the local people would borrow
that for weddings and family reunions and things like that, which
my parents gladly lent them the facilities. There was a wedding
that went on and, as I remember, it was kind of in maybe June or
July of 1950.
At that point I had very limited educational resources in this tiny
town, but one of the books that got me very, very interested in
ancient peoples and anthropology and archeology was the book
that was written about the discovery of King Tut's tomb. About
the time I finished that book, it got me very, very excited to learn
about the Egyptians, and learn about the technologies that they
had, and who they were and how they built the Pyramids. A
lecturer came to town, the man who wrote the book Kon-Tiki,
Thor Heyerdahl. Then that got me excited, so I decided I wanted
to be an anthropologist-archaeologist and was dead set on it and
reading everything I could get through the state library system on
that subject.
Along came this wedding, and just about as the preacher was to
say the words of destruction to the bride and groom, someone
pointed up to the sky and said: What’s that? And everyone turned
around – there were about 130 people there – everyone turned
around and looked. And for the next two hours everyone at the
wedding watched a series and groups of what I can only call
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
flying saucers flying through the air – some as close as maybe
100 feet and some as far away as, maybe, 20 miles – put on a
spectacular show. Everyone there saw it, as did many people in
the surrounding community. DW: Were they all the same?
PP: No, there were very different ones. Some were the shape of a
pencil and seemed to have windows along the periphery. Some
were round like a ball. Some were saucer-shaped with a bubble or
a dome on top, some saucer-shaped with two or three bubbles on
the bottom. If you go back and look through the various flying
saucer sightings that we’ve heard about over the years, there was
probably one or two of everything we’ve ever heard about.
[laughs] These things would dash away clear out of sight and
come back. They would run away from the people at the wedding
party directly, so you were looking just at one spot...
BR: And the significance of this is that, at this point, you made a
major life change. Right?
PP: At this point I made a major life change. I decided I was
much less interested in King Tut than I was in having my own
flying saucer.
BR: Right.
PP: So immediately started studying science. I’ve studied science
ever since, much of it toward the end of building my own flying
saucer. Over the years I came to the conclusion that to build a
flying saucer, you really needed to know first how to build what I
call a Doctor Who phone booth.
For those who don’t know, Dr. Who was a British science fiction
spoof that runs on many stations in America about 1:00 AM to
2:00 AM, and there’ve been something like six or seven different
Dr. Who’s over the years, it’s run so long. Dr. Who had a red
British phone booth...
BR: He didn’t have a red British phone booth. He had a black
police phone box. It was a police phone box. It wasn’t a red one.
PP: Ah. Okay, alright. He had a two-holer British phone booth
and he would go into it and it would become a time machine.
DW: It was called the TARDIS.
PP: It was called the TARDIS. So he was a Time Lord and he
would travel back and forth in both space and time. So, as I tried
to figure out how to build a flying saucer, I found out it was
easier to build a TARDIS. Then I got thinking: Well, who wants
to just shove an aerodynamic body through air when you can just
simply get somewhere and dial your destination and walk out
where you are, and you don’t have to push anything through the
air?
Anyway, I worked toward that end and have done many, many
science projects, some for large corporations, some for – we’ll
call them “agencies” – and many of them for myself. I’m in the
process now, at age 69, of building a laboratory to complete the
work that I’ve done, and having acquired a number of very
special pieces of equipment for researching such things.
257
So that’s what I’m about right now. I’m in the process of building
that laboratory in a remote location where there are very little
man-made magnetic fields. We don’t really get television or radio
direct much here and have very, very little man-made
interference – electromagnetic interference – and it allows me to
do my work that I need to do. So that’s the life change that
happened when I was ten years old and so I’ve been on that
pursuit ever since.
BR: And we would say be careful what you wish for because now
you have the understanding, as far as you have told us in our
conversations so far, you have actually the understanding, if you
don’t have the factory, to actually be able to make these
machines. You can also confirm that the Powers That Be on
planet Earth actually have access to this technology and use it for
all kinds of reasons. Is this correct?
PP: As far as I can tell, there are a number of governments that
have this technology. My feeling is, and/or my knowledge is, that
it’s been acquired from people who came to this planet from off
planet. And it’s been from the reading of a lot of ancient
documents dating back as far as 6,000 years.
BR: To the Sumerians.
PP: To the Sumerians. I have a Sumerian document that’s been
translated that tells exactly how to build a flying saucer and it’s a
direct translation. It probably doesn’t give everything, but it
certainly gives the principles and I’ve experimented with a
number of those principles and find out that things take place that
in modern physics aren’t possible.
I’ve worked with a group of scientists that have recently
discovered things in both mathematics and science that would
lead me to believe that the greater part of science that we have
today – and I have a PhD degree in Natural Philosophy, which
they used to call Physics, that took a lot of effort to acquire – and
it leads me to believe that these ancient documents portray
knowledge that we simply don’t have, and that the knowledge we
do have is wrong.
BR: And you’ve been privileged to spend time in the Vatican
library. Is this something you can talk about on record?
PP: Uh... probably. Well, I can talk about things that... There is a
lot of information there that is very contrary to things that we
believe very deeply, both philosophically and scientifically, and
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that’s basically been held away from the public – it’s not
common knowledge – a lot of translations which, I think,
probably came from the remnants of what didn’t burn in the
Great Library of Alexandria, very ancient documents.
I was involved, for a time, with machine language translation of a
lot of that material which was, in those days, somewhat crude but
at least it gave us some ideas. And the ones that looked good
were later translated by people who had done, you know, lifetime
studies of the language, and I think they’re pretty fair
translations.
BR: Are you able to say anything about anything that you learned
about the Annunaki? Or is this off-record as well?
PP: Well, the Anunnaki, who are written about in the Christian
and Jewish Bible texts... there are... I’ve seen skeletons of what
we call giants.
There’ve been recent giants. They are, you know, people that
would travel around with traveling circuses and so forth that were
very, very large through genetic problems that they had; genetic
errors. All of them had joint problems; they had organ problems;
they died young; the bodies couldn’t support the weight, things
like that.
But some of the skeletons don’t show those anomalies that one
would see. They’re very well-formed. They’re very much like
our skeletons in many respects. They were written about in the
Bible and they were written about in other ancient texts, so one
has to believe...
I know that there were numerous suggestions that DNA tests be
run on them once we got DNA testing pretty well down, and I
know those have been thwarted by various religions and various
school bodies, people not wanting to say that there are things that
we don’t understand, or that they don’t understand or that they
don’t want to understand.
BR: But we human beings are from ET lineage -- are we not?
PP: My belief is that... I’ll give you an example. Radio carbon
dating has become very, very accurate. We have very good
records of cave men that didn’t have a language. Some drew
pictures, some didn’t. We found caves with their tools in them,
with the evidences of their civilization, with their making crude
tools and things. There’ve been a number of spots that those were
found, especially in Africa and Europe and the Middle East.
Then, all of a sudden, over an 80-year period, emerged a
civilization that, for 3,000 years, had the same language and the
same religion and the same writing and the same mathematics,
and was very, very advanced from things that came afterward.
And, you know, in modern history since, oh, let’s say 300 BC,
we haven’t had any civilization that didn’t change the language to
where you couldn’t read it in a 300-year period.
BR: Sure. Yeah. Now, many of the viewers of this video will be
aware of the influence on ancient Sumeria, where this fully-
developed civilization seemed to appear from nowhere. I was just
asking whether you can confirm in any way what a lot of people
suspect, which is that we actually are, have been, created or
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engineered by ETs, who knew what they were doing and who
wanted to create us for special purposes.
PP: Well, I don’t have absolute proof of that. That’s one reason
I’m building the laboratory here. But one of the things I did
notice in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s... I did a lot of medical
equipment engineering, and I designed a machine that would read
a field that surrounded the human body and could give you a
read-out on the condition of the organs, organ by organ, in the
body. Then it could locate or find, or even create, a medication
that would fix it. One of the things that I found was, in the early
beginning, that that machine could pretty accurately come up
with a diagnosis rate of 50 percent.
Of course, I wanted it to be perfect and spent a number of years
finding out that the reason I didn’t get over 50 percent was
because a lot of people had genetic errors in their genetic system.
As a result of that, they had disease processes that were based on
those genetic errors. So you had to treat them very different --
these people who had a disease that was based on virii or germs,
or other... parasites especially.
So I finally got it to where about 70 to 75 percent of the
diagnoses appeared correct and the selection of medication
treatment appeared correct. Then I thought: Well, okay. There’s
25 percent here that I really don’t understand.
It was about, oh, ten or fifteen years later that we got pretty
familiar with and pretty good with genetic testing, and I found
that that 15 percent of people had very, very similar sequences in
the DNA that were unlike the other 85 percent of the people –
and they were unlike anything else on Earth. They appeared to be
alien to the Earth. So I thought: Well, that well could be through
exposure to some form of solar radiation or some type of ionizing
radiation.
So we looked at people that lived in areas that had natural
radioactive compounds, like the areas in southern Utah where a
lot of the carnotite and other uranium-bearing ores were mined
and people that spent time there, people that were in fallout zones
of nuclear testing at the nuclear test center in Nevada...
[Ed note: a video splice begins here on a different topic] We sent
the Gemini capsule up, and it went up – the first capsule that
went up – so we’re all sitting in Mission Control and called up
and you know, Ground to capsule, Ground to capsule. Hello. Do
you read us?
[Pete makes noise like muffled radio communication] ...comes
back and there was dead silence and then everybody laughed
because we had the thing, the last guy that went to work had to be
the guy that ran for lunch, and right down the street from JPL,
right above the Rose Bowl, was like one the first Jack-in-the-
Boxes. And you’d drive in and you’d order, and they’d repeat
order back and it’d come back [makes noise like muffled radio
communication] and you couldn’t hear a word. So everybody
realized that these astronauts had taken their turn going and
getting lunch, and etcetera, etcetera, and everybody laughed and
thought they were simulating the Jack-in-the-Box effect.
It turns out that that was the best communication that we had, so
immediately Chris Kraft turns to me and says: Peterson! Solve
this problem. So I made a thing that we eventually called the
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
“Lecture Laundry” and it was a device that found out why such
things took place. And they still take place. You still go to drive-
ins and you can’t understand a darn thing.
But I built some no-noise microphones that also had a device that
removed all of that problem. We found out that there are three
narrow pass bands for all the information as speech is recorded.
Two of them record the information. One of them gives you the
identification of the speaker. But that one pass band that gives
you the speaker identification has to have a variable frequency
start–up and drop-off. So you have little knob on it, so you turn it
on in a lecture [Ed. note: loudspeaker mode] and turn this knob
until you can hear the speaker very, very clearly. And you can
hear them perfectly. You don’t hear the airplanes go over, the
police cars go by, people shuffling their papers, the noise from
the cooling fan, the noise from the rear projection fan, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera.
So anyway, it’s one of the little things out of my life. But I used
to build those and when I moved to build my new laboratory nine
years ago, I quit building those. So that’s one of the products I
intend to get put back into production.
[Ed note: end video splice here; the 15% alien DNA topic
resumes.]
I checked to see why I couldn’t get the final 15 percent of the
diagnostic readings correct and finally came to the conclusion
that it was because these people had DNA that had come from off
planet. That led me to think: Well, if that’s the case, there must be
some kind of historical record.
And when I went back and looked at the historical record, I found
out that there are numerous records and archaeological evidence
that we were visited by people from off planet – very probably, in
my opinion, not only off planet but extraterrestrial or extra-Solar-
System-type of visitors.
You know, there’s so many different people that claim having
seen such things, that they existed, seen such peoples. There are
several broad categories of such aliens. A few, a small percentage
of those, could be attributed to anything from paranoia to just tall
tales or whatever, but when you have as many as there are, all the
way down through all of recorded history, it leads one to believe
that it probably was very, very true that such things existed.
As an example, anyone who wants to find something from the
past, read Ezekiel in the Bible.
BR: In the course of your work, have you encountered any
documentation about the existence of our relationship with
creatures like that?
PP: I have. Most of them I can’t talk about.
BR: Sure.
PP: But yes, I’ve seen things written by scientists that I have very
high respect for. Some were teachers of mine. Some were people
that I work with scientifically in other fields, and there were
casual conversations about such things. That’s why I have the
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beliefs that I have, that we have extraterrestrial DNA in our
bodies... some of us do.
It’s rather interesting to note that there’s been a lot of supposition
about various programs to reprogram people’s minds, to throw
their thinking off, to cause them to believe things that aren’t
necessarily true, but politically would be a very good thing for
those in politics and in government and in religion. It’s
interesting to note that mind control techniques work on 85
percent of the people, and the 15 percent that they don’t work
well on are people that have that particular DNA string.
BR: Ah-ha. Okay.
PP: So, just another verification that those people are very
different from the average person.
DW: Pete, I’m sure we’re going to have tons of people wanting
to know, of this 15 percent DNA category, is it all one type of
person, like one race? Or are they distributed throughout the
population? And if you can’t tell us, you can’t tell us.
PP: No, they obviously run in family trees, along family tree lines
or family lines, but they’re pretty well distributed throughout all
different cultures and races.
DW: Thank you. I thought that was the case but I wanted that on
record.
PP: Which, again, would be, to me, a confirmation that that
probably did happen because why would someone come and
select just one race or one family line?
BR: So there’s black and white and red and...
PP: Red and yellow and green and blue and whatever.
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): How about your DNA? Are you one of
those?
PP: As far as I know, I am.
BR: We probably all are in this room. [laughs]
PP: We probably all are in this room. Matter of fact, I’ve found
that, as the last ten or twelve years have progressed, I’ve noticed
that many people, when I talk to them about things that I know
that are a fact in both science, mathematics and in history, as well
as in my belief system, I talk to certain people and the 85 percent
that I don’t seem to have a medical problem with, i.e., the ones
that have “normal” human DNA...
BR: Don’t seem to understand what you’re talking about.
[laughs]
PP: When I talk to them, it used to be that they would call me
crazy, or it used to be that they’d be really interested and want to
learn about it. But, nowadays when you talk to those people,
when you’re done talking they don’t say: That’s crazy. You’re
crazy. I don’t believe it. They come back into consciousness and
start talking like you’d never said a word.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Absolutely.
BR: Yeah. Interesting. So the people watching this video are
probably among the 15 percent. They’re self-selective in many
areas, this is what we find.
PP: Well, from what you’ve told me about the people that you
deal with, I would believe that. They’re probably in that 15
percent.
BR: Okay. Now, there’s so many places we can go from this
conversation, but there’s something important which I want to
grab, here and now, and that is: You made an allusion a few
minutes ago to when you moved here nine years ago to be in a
very quiet, secluded place with your laboratory which you are
building to do your work. What can you say about why you are
here and why people who are elsewhere might one day wish that
they were also here?
PP: Well, that's something that, in our talks over the last day or
so, we haven't really gotten into but I'm in an area that had two
requirements for me and for some of the people who I do various
things for that are not to be named.
One of them is this area is very secluded from man-made
electromagnetic radiation. It's a deep valley with high mountains
surrounding it in 360 degrees. The entrance to it is through a very
narrow long, winding canyon. So we don't really get radio here,
or television, directly. The power that comes in here does have
interference on it as well as it has information on it. But it's very,
very secluded, informationally.
Then the place that I chose here is kind of back in a little notch in
the mountains, so it’s even more secluded. That was one reason.
The other reason is it’s an area that’s very highly defendable.
That was very important because of my belief, and the belief of
many other people that I have great respect for, that the world is
going through a... I’ll call it a meltdown. We’re going through a
change. The alternative-thought radio and television shows and
motion pictures and books and movies are all fraught with the
fact that something major is going to happen in 2010 or 2012 –
the end of the Mayan calendar, Earth changes, a number of
things.
The Yellowstone caldera is very, very active. There are areas up
there where the ground has risen. My understanding is it’s risen
about four feet. We all know that there’s got to be major volcanic
260
activity under Yellowstone area because we can go up there and
see the mud pots bubbling and Old Faithful geysering and smell
the sulfur coming out of Hades.
BR: And, metaphorically, the same thing may be happening
politically.
PP: Exactly. The same thing happening politically. Best I can tell,
we’ve been printing not only billions, but trillions of dollars, with
nothing to back them whatsoever. Right now I have very dear
friends in China that are offering me mature T-bills and mature
US bonds that they can’t seem to get cashed, that they’re offering
for 10 cents on the dollar.
And there are trillions of dollars worth. It would be enough that,
if the world court system would enforce their eventual payment,
every man, woman and child in the United States would have to
work for four or five generations to pay them off.
BR: What’s the connection between that and your being here?
PP: Well, that, and my being here is I’m in an area that, because
if it’s geographical location, has four seasons but it has a good
growing season. The area where I am exports both agricultural
and meat product in far greater amounts than the people here
would consume.
One pry bar, or one stick of dynamite, would shut access – not
egress particularly – but it certainly would shut access off so that
if there were, indeed, a failure of the currency and ensuing
political and certainly geopolitical meltdown, this area would be
very protected from large groups of people with no money and
therefore no food and no energy and whatever. People who’d
come looking for food would probably come to an area like this.
BR: Is there anything you can say about your belief of the
likelihood of these events transpiring?
PP: I’ve been lead to believe in numerous briefings and people
that I know in fields that very definitely would know and so
forth, they’ve all warned me that I should be at a place like this.
Many people, even those from Europe and other places, that had
very heavy financial connections in major cities around the world
have closed those offices down, and a great number of them have
expressed a desire to move here if they haven’t already moved
here.
BR: And you mean here to this particular area?
PP: Here to this particular area.
BR: Uh-huh. So you believe that there is something very
important happening this year and this one of the reasons why
you’re talking to us?
PP: That’s one of the reasons why I’m talking. I’ve kind of, if
you would, come out of the closet because I think that the people
that I find have... The people now that are, say, 27 years old and
younger, have gone through a school system that hasn’t schooled
them, hasn’t trained them – obviously – because if you know
anything about education, has very specifically not trained them
and not schooled them in political science, certainly, and in
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politics and in economics, and certainly geo-economics. They
just seem... they don’t have an idea of what’s gone on.
You know, we look at a President that complained entirely about
all the money that the previous President spent, then in the first
90 days spent ten times as much. Now it was turned over to the
Fed to spend it and the Fed, in congressional testimony on
television, said: We don’t have any idea where that money went.
We have no idea. We can tell you where two billion of it went, but
we certainly can’t tell you where seven trillion of it went, or six
trillion of it went. We don’t have any idea.
And, you know, the people have just let that pass by: Oh, that
means that ourselves and the next four generations of progeny
are going to have to work their whole lives to pay this debt off.
And yet we don’t even have any idea where it went or who has it.
It’s certainly not out there helping the economy.
BR: Mm-hm. Now, if this occurs, would this be a worldwide
problem? I mean, like the collapse of the dollar...
PP: Well, it is a worldwide problem. I mean, look back at James
Burke's programs on Connections. The thing of it is – this is my
opinion – but the Unions had to do something to get the Union
members to pay their dues, and the only thing they really could
do was increase their salaries. So the Unions have increased their
salaries to a point where the work has had to move off-shore,
because we don’t have people that are willing to work and be
blue-collar workers anymore. They want to work and get white-
collar wages.
The white-collar people want to get white-collar wages, rather
than wages that were consistent with their production so, in
essence, they’ve stolen from the blue-collar workers and stolen
from the rest of the world by loaning them money and then taking
all their natural resources at very low rates.
This has happened all over the world. It hasn’t just happened
here. We’re seeing economies beginning to fail everywhere.
We’ve been dealing with a system now for, oh, 70 years or better,
of fiat money – money that’s backed with nothing. It’s like was
said about the Irish when they moved into New York and into
Boston: Everybody made money by taking in the neighbor’s
wash.
BR: Sure. In your personal opinion, and if you can qualify that
personal opinion, it would be useful -- what do you think may
happen if there’s some tipping-point of social instability or
financial instability that occurs before the end of this year? What
can people expect?
PP: Well, let’s take a look at the Depression in the late ‘20s.
People had ethics. They had morality. Ethics and morality were
removed from the school systems 25 years ago, and for specific
reasons. It had nothing to do with reasons of ethics or morality. It
had to do with political reasons. So they were taken from the
school systems.
So in the ‘20s when we had a Depression, people would go out to
farmland and knock on the farmer’s door and say: Ma’am, I got
three little kids that need to eat and I’ll shovel manure, I’ll dig
potatoes, I’ll haul the weeds out of the garden, I’ll do whatever I
need to do to get something to feed my kids.
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Now what people have been taught is that they’re owed a living,
they’re owed to live like television says that people should live.
They don’t have an ethic; they don’t have a morality.
So what happens is, if we have a financial collapse, it won’t be
like the ‘20s. It’s going to be like today and you’re going to have
anarchy and absolute chaos. The government knows that.
They’ve recently asked the service members if they would fire on
civilians if they were asked to – which is entirely against the
Constitution.
We had a Second Amendment and the founders of our country, in
writing after the Constitution about where the Second
Amendment came from, didn’t say that we should have the right
to keep and bear arms so that we could go get a deer and feed the
family. They specifically stated we had the right to keep and bear
arms so that if the government, with its military, got out of hand
and tried to suppress the Constitution and civilians, they could
take control back, because the government was supposed to lie in
the hands of the people.
Now, not that I believe that the people are smart enough to
handle themselves, because they’re not, otherwise we wouldn’t
have had the last several Presidents that we’ve had. We’d have
actually had senators and congressmen thrown out because they
wouldn’t do for us what was necessary. And the senators and
congressmen had no option because we had so many splinter
groups that they had to keep satisfied, that they couldn’t do what
was necessary for the people as they were charged to do.
BR: Is there anything you can say on record about a recent
Congressional session that you attended?
PP: Yes. Uh... Probably better not said.
BR: Okay.
PP: Just note that there was the third... my understanding... it was
the third-ever closed session of Congress.
BR: Okay. I understand.
KC: But it is on Google, so...
PP: Yeah, I think many things have leaked out about it on
Google. We found that no matter where the politician was and
what committee he was on, when top secret things were talked
about, they wanted to close the session early, so they could get
out and put their tips out to the news. We don’t have any
confidentiality in that. It leaked out, I’m sure.
BR: Am I right in assuming that you wouldn’t contradict those
leaks?
PP: I wouldn’t contradict them at all.
BR: Thank you.
KC: But weren’t they told to... weren't some of them getting out
of the country to relocate in South America? Ask him that.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
PP: That’s my understanding.
KC: George Green has given us testimony to that effect.
PP: Yeah. That’s my understanding that a number of them felt
that, once the people found out what had been done to them by
their representatives, they felt that it would be much better for
their health and safety to be somewhere else.
BR: Mm-hm. And that kind of says it all. Do you know anything,
or suspect anything, about once the financial system fails, if it
does so, what would it be replaced by?
PP: Well, up until a few days ago I would say it would’ve been
replaced by a world currency. Remember, the last four Presidents
have all been members of the Council on Foreign Relations, and
have openly stated that they’re moving toward a One World
government and believe we should have a One World
government. If we had a One World government, we’d probably
have a One World currency.
And it might even be they were smart enough to have a currency
that was backed by something real, like gold or silver or various
metals. I’ve always wanted to see a commodity-backed currency,
so you could have a currency that was worth so much corn, or so
much wheat, or so much of something that was a real, tangible
thing.
BR: Sure. Up until a few days ago, you said. What changed?
PP: Up until a few days ago. What changed was my
understanding is now that they’re... well, the NAFTA and GATT
agreements basically put us into a system where we had Mexico,
United States and Canada almost as one government with three
parts.
There was going to be a, you know, it’s been highly rumored that
there was a printed currency available – pictures available on the
Internet, etcetera, etcetera, because there’s nothing that’s a secret
anymore – that would have currency, different colors and
different sizes for different denominations, and was to be called
something like the Amero for North America.
It’s been rumored that that currency is being destroyed now and
replaced by another U.S. currency that is being printed. And that
would make a lot of sense because there’s so much... well, the
money that’s being printed is funny money because it’s backed on
nothing. But also, there’s been so much counterfeiting, especially
out of Iran. So you can look at some of our politics with Iran
having to do with nuclear proliferation, and so much of it having
to do with the fact that they have good printing presses and good
duplicators of paper and ink. There’s been a tremendous amount
of currency that we know has moved here from Iran that is
counterfeit, and it’s rampant.
BR: Yeah. Many people watching this video will be aware of
what David Icke has been talking about. We spoke to him at
length earlier on this year and one of the drums that he's been
beating is about what he feels is the danger of the population
being chipped as a means of control, which is going to be linked
with their ability to operate financially at all. Can you comment
on that at all?
262
PP: There are a number of things to lead one to believe that they
are going to be shipping people around. There are a number of
places that there's no explanation for, but very large concentration
camps have sprung up, one of them very near where I live here
that's very large-sized.
On the other hand, I was involved, back in the '70s, with a very
large food and feed company to build chips that could be used on
prize cattle and breeding cattle, for example, and show cattle, to
geolocate them or to identify them.
That technology has now been reduced down to things that can
be injected through a hypodermic needle into the body and
identify people. The currency that I heard about that was to be a
One World currency was based on being chipped. The credits, if
you would, would go onto and off of that chip by a method
similar to Bluetooth that's used today.
BR: And this is technology which you yourself have helped
develop! Is that what I heard you say?
PP: Well, it's technology that I developed, some of the early
things, and it's technology which, in it's smaller implementation,
I'm using right now in a product that I'm in the process of
building for geolocation and anti-theft because there's so many
people being kidnapped and sacrificed for their organs, or being
kidnapped and held for ransom – not the least of which is around
the Mogadishu area and in the Mediterranean, but also even in
Mexico. A tremendous number of people are being kidnapped for
ransom there, both their own people and visitors.
BR: There's a problem tracking containers.
PP: There’s a problem tracking sea-land containers as well.
BR: Why is it important to track these containers?
PP: Well, there are around 10,000 containers a day coming into
the country that are never physically inspected. We know that
weapons of mass destruction, though this is not totally
announced, but we know weapons of mass destruction are
coming in in those containers. We know terrorists are coming in
in those containers because we see the evidence of it afterward.
Thank God the government has picked up a lot of these things
later, but the containers – a lot of them are shipping contraband.
A lot of them are shipping... You know, we saw the dog food
come in that was laced with Melamine, because it wasn't
inspected.
BR: Now, we just did a tape change here, and just before that
little interlude, David was very keen to ask Pete about his view
about how can we transform these danger signs into something
that is a healthy warning to us? What sorts of proactive, positive-
thinking, responsible actions can we take without just
blindfolding ourselves and ignoring whatever real risks that
might be there?
Now this is my bridge because I want David to ask his own
questions. This is one of the reasons why he's here with us. We
have a huge respect for David, his intellect, his perspective, his
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experience. David, this is all yours. You want to talk to Pete
about this very important thing here.
DW: Sure. What I wanted to say was just that I have a
perspective, which includes documenting my dreams every day
for the last 17 years, following their guidance, getting accurate
information from that guidance. Yesterday morning, while we
were talking about all these things, I had a dream in which there
was a volcanic eruption. It looked terrifying. There were rocks
flying into the air and everybody around me thought we were all
going to die. We ran under these trees, the rocks fell all around
us, but we were all fine. Nobody was actually hurt by it.
Obviously it was a disaster, obviously it had caused property
damage, but the people were okay.
That's one of many different varieties of data that I've gotten to
suggest that, even though things look like they could be really
austere and apocalyptic, that humanity will persevere through this
and that we will be able to have a positive outcome on our own
futures, and that this is not a situation that's completely outside of
our ability to manage.
PP: Well David, you had a question that you asked me just before
the break and I think we're going to agree to disagree, but go
ahead and ask that question again, or make that statement again.
BR: It was a very good question. It was about prior warnings not
having come to pass and therefore why should we be concerned?
DW: Oh, okay. Yeah, let me give you some prelude to that. I
spoke with another witness who was involved in various
compartmentalized projects, one in particular which was at the
Montauk base, and he had extensive contact with people on the
inside.
One of the things that he said was that the Superdomes that were
built in all the major cities were intended to be large holding
containers for people to be herded in. He said that there was a
plan that the Rodney King riots would foment enough social
upheaval that they would be able to actually round up black
people who were rioting in the cities and put them inside these
domes and basically keep them in there until they passed away.
That was a plan that was made and it obviously did not happen.
So, we've heard from many Project Camelot witnesses’ similar
plans, timelines, in which the Powers That Be, whoever they are,
say apocalyptic things are going to happen. The dates come,
strange things happen, yes, but it doesn't lead to an apocalypse
scenario.
So, in private conversation with us, you had mentioned that there
were other dates that came and went where they had said
something like this might happen. Some friends of yours inside
told you something like that and then it didn't actually turn into a
social breakdown.
PP: Yes.
DW: Okay.
PP: I did say that, and so the question is?
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DW: Well, the question is, in terms of... You had mentioned
before that people have a conditioning to not think, and a
conditioning of mind control. You said that there is a degradation
in the moral fabric of our society. So, I think what we really need
to know on a personal level is: What can we do to help ourselves
not be indoctrinated by this passive programming that's coming
out to us? You mentioned versions of mind control and things
like that. I think that's an important key to not getting stuck in this
trap.
PP: I moved here because I was told by various people that I
should geolocate and be in an area that would be safe when we
eventually got a financial and, therefore, a political, collapse. So
there're certain things that I've done to make sure that myself and
my family and my friends are safe from that.
The question that David just asked is a little bit different, having
to do with the fact that numerous ones of us have heard a bit
apocalyptic things in the future, ranging from the fact that,
supposedly in the year 2011 or 2012, we have the end of the
Mayan calendar and we have an apocalypse coming. People who
are apocalyptic Christians say about the same thing, that the End
Times are here or coming. We've heard very dire things about the
economic posture of the United States and the whole world, and
we see things happening.
We see Iceland, for example, declaring bankruptcy, and I hear
from people that I know in the banking system that a number of
the European states are going to follow them in bankruptcy.
When the U.S. currency fails... which I can't imagine that it
won't, because we've printed so much currency and put out there
that's backed by nothing -- it's all beginning to come home and
roost. The T-bills and bonds are coming back to us, and I can't
see what's going to happen there.
We have the huge collapse that when, before the current
President took office, 16 billion dollars was going to solve all the
problems, and Please get this bill through, and We can take 16
billion dollars and put it out in. And it barely passed and we got
that through.
Then it seemed like three weeks later we didn't know where the
16 billion dollars was even supposed to go or what for because
they passed the bill without even knowing what was going to
happen. That 16 billion dollars disappeared immediately. And
now, all of a sudden we needed seven or nine trillion dollars, and
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then we needed 20, you know, and we don't have any idea where
that went.
So the things we've heard in the past about there going to be a
failure, the time came and left and there wasn't a failure, but this
money was pumped somewhere. And, of course, the system had a
lot more inertia than we anticipated. So now what we have is
something that... the actuality is coming to roost. I drive around
in the town that I live nearby, the large town that's about 50 miles
south of me, and I drive around there and I look in the little malls
and I look in the big malls. The big mall has closed. We only had
one mall in the town, and the gross population [of] nearly, well,
750,000 people.
The one mall that we had, the people that had the mall failed and
went bankrupt, and it's closed. All the stores that sell non-
essential items – jewelry stores, bed and bath stores, etcetera –
most of them have closed. Sporting goods stores, most of them
have closed.
BR: What you're saying is that we haven't been here before. This
is something new.
PP: So we haven't really ever been here before. You know, we've
heard that things are going to happen, things are going to fail, but
life continued on as normal and the government continued to
print money and pass it out to its friends and so forth. So,
therefore, we're in a bit different set of circumstances. I moved
here in 1999 because I was told [that] by 2001, that the system
was going to fail. And here we are eight years later, or nine years
later...
BR: In fact, you were ordered to come here.
PP: I was. So, we found out that no, it didn't fail. I'd go for a
briefing and they'd just be in shock: We don't understand it. We
don't have any idea why it hasn't failed. I mean, we just don't
know. The only thing we can do is say there was so much inertia.
So, now it's beginning to fail. And it isn't just beginning to fail --
it's increasing on a logarithmic scale, and very shortly, I see that
it just about has to do that. Which then brings us back to the first
question that David asked just before the break was: What do I
see that we could offer the listeners out there, something that they
might do? And I can say: Well, in my personal opinion...
And what I've done, I've put my money and my talent, my skills
and my abilities, where my mouth is. I've come here and I'm self-
sufficient. I grow all my own meat, all my own vegetables. I have
stored up those things that are going to be critical to society. I've
picked up the tools that I didn't have that allow me to do things in
such an environment and such a society to produce things that are
going to be necessary for people to have.
BR: And you can even make your own radio and probably fuel
your own truck.
PP: Exactly right. I have a number of vehicles that I now have --
engines that'll burn alcohol. I have the equipment and I have the
seeds and I have the tractor, and I have the land and I have the
water to grow material that I can make alcohol from at a much
larger rate than I need.
264
BR: Now, a lot of people listening to this will say: But I'm in the
middle of a big city. I've got a wife and a mortgage and two kids
who are at school, and I hear what you're saying but what can I
do? I'm not in that situation. What would you tell them?
PP: Well, I've taught survival for better than 40 years and my
particular area of expertise in survival was urban survival. I was
asked to write a book about urban survival, and I started the book
out, and I can tell you that – we got into that a little bit earlier – I
can tell you that today there isn't any such thing as urban
survival. Who knows their neighbors? In '29 people knew their
neighbors and they had ethics and morality. Now the ethics and
morality has been taken away from the children, and the children
are now in their 20s and 30s.
BR: The community's gone.
PP: The community is gone. We don't have a community that
would do that, and we have people that have children, and now
some of them have a couple children. What are you going to do
when your kids say: Daddy, my tummy hurts. I haven't had
anything to eat for two weeks. And you smell the next door
neighbor over there, who was a wise squirrel and put something
up, and you smell him out on his barbeque - because he's got no
power but charcoal - cooking a couple of freeze-dried steaks?
You have to ask yourself: What would that person do?
BR: Okay. But there are a lot of psychological operations that
have been put in place in preparation for all of this, and there's
mental self-defense or mental preparation, emotional preparation,
spiritual preparation. Is there something that you can speak to
about that, whatever people's circumstances are?
PP: Well, I will do that, but first I want to suggest that... Take a
look at just the things that have happened. Forget the political-
economic situation. Let's take a look at things that have happened
in this country over the last, say, four or five years.
You've got the debacle that occurred in New Orleans, and then
you've got the next debacle that occurred in Texas and
Mississippi, and you got to see that, no, all those people couldn't
leave town because they got out on the freeway and the freeway
was jammed. Everybody got stopped and they ran out of gas and
there wasn't any gas. The people that owned the service stations
left to get out of town also, so there wasn't anything for the
service stations.
You look at New Orleans. I knew people that were getting water
to New Orleans that had been ordered, it was a year until it got
delivered. There were people who got thousands and thousands
of trailer-houses that were stuck in the Midwest and never got
shipped down there. Nobody got to use them. But by the time
they got where they could've put them down there, the things had
already decayed, and they found out they were made with the
wrong materials and they were out-gassing toxic things...
That was how well the government was prepared for that. They
saw it coming and saw it coming and saw it coming – nothing
happened. Then you look at the people that live along the
Mississippi River and its feeding tributaries. They've had floods
virtually every year. Every year they have floods, and they go
back and they rebuild their houses with lots of insurance money,
and then they have floods the next year...
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The weather is changing. I think it's changing to the colder rather
than the warmer, but anyway, the weather is changing, very
definitely. It's changing right here where I live, tremendously so.
In the last couple of winters, we've had two-to-three times the
snow that we had the previous ten years. Then we've had water
from it, major, major water problems. We had droughts for a
number of years. I live near a huge, huge reservoir that holds
enough water to irrigate the whole southern state for a year or
two, and it's been absolutely dry in the bottom, hardly a trickle.
And now it's clear full and spilling over.
BR: So, in summary, you're saying that as a scientist and as an
intelligent man, as somebody who is well-connected on the inside
with other scientists and other intelligent men, you think that
there's a real problem.
PP: I think that there's a major real problem and I think that
people who don't see that, and don't realize that, simply have put
blinders on. I think that what they should do is think: You know,
maybe there's something to this. But at least we see that in major
areas of the country there've been problems where people needed
to have a little supply of food left because they couldn't get to a
store.
They need to have things that, if they have to leave their homes...
Like in the area that I'm in, and in California, especially, and in
other states, especially. There've been major, major fires that
have gone on. People have been moved out of their homes. And
when they left home and they came back and they're crying on
television: Oh, everything's gone. Everything's gone.
And yet, some of those people went to survival lectures that I
gave and they had copies of their driver's license, copies of their
marriage license, copies of their insurance papers, copies of all
the things they needed to have copies of. They had extras of all
the children's pictures and extras of the journals and so forth put
away in another location. These are things that people can do to
assure continuity even though there may be something coming.
California? We hear predictions about earthquakes all the time
and we see earthquakes all the time. Some are small and some are
larger, but we hear the people that actually are predicting those
things predicting very large earthquakes. They don't know if it's
going to be next year or the year after, but they know it's going to
come, they know it's going to be large, they know people are
going to lose things. Why don't these people have what's called a
bug-out bag in their car where they could take off and leave the
area?
The government says: Oh, you only need to have three days
storage. But we look at where the government's come in, time
after time after time over just the last four or five years, and
found out the government didn't have anything for them. They
had to fend for themselves. It was months, sometimes, before
they had effort come in.
It's very interesting to understand... When I teach a survival class,
one of the things I do is, right at the beginning of the class I put a
velvet bag over people's head. Then I tell them: I'm going to
place a ten dollar gold piece somewhere in the room and have
you all look for it. Whoever finds it gets to keep it.
265
So I do that and then I say: Okay, go look for it, and immediately
someone says: Oh, here it is. I have it. I found it. And everybody
takes their bag off and says: Well that's no fair! He didn't have a
hood on!
And I say: Okay, so let's say that there's a big earthquake or a big
emergency, and if you don't have a way of communicating –
because the cell phones are going to be down, the radio stations
are going to be down – if you don't have a way of communicating
outside of those, it's like having a bag over your head. You're not
going to know what roads are blocked. You're not going to know
what roads have police that are not allowing people to go
through. You're not going to have gasoline in your car.
If you had a short-wave radio or an amateur radio, which are very
inexpensive, you could listen to the radio amateurs who are going
to be immediately there because that's what they're set up for,
that's what they're trained to do. If you had an amateur radio
license, which anybody can get these days, it's like you had eyes.
You can see where to go, where there's problems, where there are
not problems, where there are riots, where there are not riots, and
carry on and go there.
If you had a bug-out bag in your car you'd have gas and fuel and
medical supplies, things to keep you warm, things to keep you
cool, all packed up ready to go. Just a small bag. So, there are a
number of things that one could do to become aware.
BR: There’s a lot that has been done to dumb down the
population. How can this be reversed? How can that be aided? I
want to make sure that David gets a chance to answer his own
questions. What I'm trying to do is support you in that and I want
to give you air time here.
DW: There is a compartment of reality that we can talk about in
which people are on this planet and there are forces that appear to
be almost outside their control to do anything about other than, as
you said, preparations for the sake of survival. Then we also have
another context which is that you are apparently directly aware of
extraterrestrials who are not strictly negative. In fact, you
mentioned to us before that a lot of them are positive. We know
they're out there, we know they're visiting us.
While I don't believe they're going to just come down and save us
from problems, there appears to be a greater reality that we are all
involved in, and that this situation... My understanding is that the
situations we're going through are going to be instrumental in
helping to purge the negative influences on this planet that have
been prevailing for so long, not make them worse. There will be,
certainly, a crisis time that we go through but that's part of a
passage into a more organized and enlightened society. That's
how it's been explained by many different accurate sources, in
my opinion, including ancient prophecies that speak of the
coming of a Golden Age.
PP: Well, one of the things that I did in studying survival was I
went to numerous places on the face of the Earth where there
were survival-type things taking place, whether it be genocide in
Africa, whether it be eruption of volcanoes, whether it be
tornadoes and tsunamis. I've gone to those places studying
survival, and I know one thing: There's one person I can rely on
and that's me, and all the rest is conjecture.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
I found out that the people that survived were the people that
were prepared. Some were prepared mentally, and that's the
major preparation that you could do. But I know that when you
believe in other people, that may or may not happen, but if you
believe in yourself and follow up, it does happen and you don't
have any worry.
I found out that a few days or a few hours, or even a few minutes
can be the difference between life and death. So I would just as
soon spend a little time and a little effort and a little money, and
be able to take care of myself and my people. And if other things
happen, so much the better; I have things I can share with others.
DW: Yeah, I don't dispute that at all. In fact, I am very well
prepared for eventualities in myself. We also, at Project Camelot,
have interviewed enough different witnesses that we are trying to
look at the big picture perspective.
I do believe that we have an intelligently-guided planet. I do
believe that the things that happen on the planet are not random,
and I do believe that society itself is going through an
evolutionary process. A lot of the things that you've shared with
us already, off the record, reveal that there are potentials of the
human being much greater than what we currently understand.
You’ve also suggested there are efforts to suppress our natural
ability that have been put in place and I think that, while,
absolutely, preparing is important, I think anything you can tell
us about how people can strengthen their intuitive faculty, so that
they have an ability to get in touch with that part of themselves
that does have the knowledge – you've mentioned remote
viewing before, too.
If they have some way, something you can share with us, a way
in which people can greater empower themselves to the greater
awareness that they actually possess and how that could help
them through these transitional times, maybe that would be
important to hear.
PP: Well, actually, strangely enough, we really agree and I think
we're both saying that one should do both, because then you don't
have to rely on anything; you don't have to rely on somebody
else.
That's the problem. What's been taken out of people over the last
20 years is response-ability. People have to take responsibility.
266
Over the millennia, the people that we've considered major,
major prophets, such as the prophets of Mohammedanism, the
prophets of Christianity, prophets of record such as Nostradamus
and so forth. Every one of those, and all the religions, have said:
Take responsibility and prepare yourself.
The things that David’s talking about to prepare are exactly
correct. People should have those skills. They should go out and
practice those and I know that your group has been superb in
providing evidence and providing a website that's a fantastic
website where they can go and look and find out people that are
talking about such things, people that are saying such things.
I'm basically a warrior because that's kind of my path and I've
noticed that there isn't anybody out there in this world that's
taking care of me except me. That's not necessarily true because
the knowledge, the intellect, the experience, the vast experience
that I have has been handed to me on a silver platter. It's like I
stuck my hand in the air to volunteer and got a hiccup in my
rotator cuff and my hand just stayed up and I ended up
volunteering for everything. [Kerry laughs] Everybody thought I
was volunteering, and so I got stuck into a number of different
things. But none of it, as I look back on it, was by accident.
I know that there are a number of people that were students of
mine that were in New Orleans, that were in the Gulf area of
Texas, that were in the river areas in Ohio and Nebraska and so
forth, and Tennessee. I know that all of them, when the time
came, just simply threw a bag in the back of their car and headed
out and they were fine. All their family records were preserved,
and all their family jewels and things, everybody knew where
they were. They were all in one place, threw them in the car and
off they went. The car was full of gas with a little trailer with a
couple of gas cans and a tent. And they were fine.
I'm just suggesting that that is a very wise thing to do on a day
like today, whether the prophets of doom are correct, or whether
they're not correct. Let's say you put aside five months worth of
food. Well, go take a look at the prices in the store, and the prices
five months ago, and tell me you wouldn't like to buy five-
months-ago’s food, or today's food at five-months-ago’s prices.
You know, it's better than any investment you could've made. It's
better than any stock I know of. It's even better than gold. If a
disaster comes, it's going to be worth far more than gold because
it'll save your life, where gold will just get you robbed – or silver.
I tell people if you're going to save gold, for crying out loud, save
some silver. Because if we have a collapse, when it comes, you
know, get yourself a wheelbarrow and if you come to my place
and want a loaf of bread and you've got an ounce of gold that's
worth, at that time, $2,000, I'll swap it for a loaf of bread.
[laughter] If you've got a quarter, that by that time is worth three
dollars – a non-numismatic silver quarter – I'll swap it for a loaf
of bread. Take your pick.
BR: Right.
PP: So, there are things that people can do to do that, and there
are things that they can do. There are a number of remote
viewing courses and many of them are very good. I’d suggest you
do remote viewing.
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But I said besides remote viewing I know one thing that's certain.
I can take my little ham radio and I can pick it up and I can call
on the ham radio repeater and I say: What's the traffic like on
Route 17 going out through Palmdale? And somebody's going to
say: Oh, all the cars are stopped and they're not letting people
through. Or they're going to say: Oh, the traffic's flowing just
fine. And I know that's the direction to get out of town.
BR: Sure. A lot of people would want us to ask this question. It's
almost a matter of duty. And that is: How much does Obama
know about all of this, in your opinion?
PP: Uh... [laughs] That's a strange question. I can't imagine
anyone accepting the job of President with the current situation. I
can't imagine that. So, in that respect, I have to say he can't be
very intelligent. On the other hand, he's an intelligent man. He
certainly is an intelligent speaker. Of course, he was a debate
king, if you would.
I know that when he got his first briefing, because I had friends
that were present, said that he was so shocked that he had to sit
down when he found out what really was happening. This was
before he took the office. Now, I think that he's found himself in
a river that's flooded and headed south and he's got a little boat
with no oars.
BR: And very steep canyon walls. [laughs]
PP: And steep canyon walls, and he's just paddling with his hands
as fast as he can paddle and trying to do the very best job that he
can. He has a few really good people around him. I really don't
believe he has a hint how to stop what's happening. I don't think
he has a hint how to stop the flood, because it's behind him and
it's coming on, and he's being driven by it and there's not much he
can do.
BR: Now, speaking about having good people with him, just
using that turn of phrase, would you confirm that there are good
people, who we have euphemistically called the White Hats, in
the government and the intelligence and the military, who
themselves are patriots as you are, and they're trying to do their
best from the inside to avert these things.
PP: Absolutely. There are many people that left the military.
Most of the good people left during Clinton and Bush because
they couldn't pledge allegiance to the President because of the
things that were being done, so many people left. On the other
hand, there were many people that stayed behind because they
knew they were going to be needed. They sacrificed, not
principle, but they had a higher knowledge and stayed behind so
that they could ply the knowledge that they had when the time
came.
BR: That's where they thought they would be most valuable.
PP: That's where they thought they would be most valuable, and
they were the true patriots because they did what was best for the
people rather than what was best for themselves.
BR: And these are the people who are keeping you informed
sometimes. Is that right?
267
PP: Some of those people are the people that are keeping me
informed.
BR: I understand.
PP: I mean, it's more that they're keeping me informed because
they call me for ideas. I'm kind of an idea man and they call me
and ask me: What might we do here, and what might we do
there?
BR: Because you're above all a problem solver and a
technological...
PP: I'm basically a problem solver.
BR: Mm-hm.
DW: Do you think there's ever going to be a Disclosure? That
any of this stuff about UFOs or other races not born on Earth
would ever get out to the public?
PP: It's interesting. I've been told that a number of the apocalypse
films that have come out recently, and a number of the science
fiction things that have come out recently as movies have been
partially funded by the government wanting to get familiar in our
minds the idea there might be people that could come and help
us. There might be some kind of Divine providence that would
help as well. I've heard, kind of through the grapevine, that...
I know that Reagan was asked to disclose such things, the truth
about flying saucers and alien people. I know that JFK was asked
those things and said he would do something. And I know there
was pressure put to bear on both of them to say nothing. I know
that the current President... I don’t know this. I have heard that
the current President was planning to make such announcements
later in the year, or late in the year.
KC: Are you willing to say the date and that information that
you...
PP: I know a date I was told, and I can tell you the same people
that told me that date told me that the U.S. currency would fail in
2001 when they ordered me to move here.
BR: Okay.
PP: So who knows what's going to happen? But I've heard that
his desire... And I may be wrong. I don't know. I've heard it
through the grapevine, the man hasn't told me himself.
KC: But he's under orders, isn't he? He's just the front guy.
PP: My feeling is that we haven't had a President since right after
George Washington that wasn't under orders from someone else.
If you go back and take a look at it, it's pretty obvious.
BR: Then, if the guy doesn't obey those orders, he may find
himself in trouble.
PP: He may find himself in trouble.
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KC: Do you want to talk about who’s behind him, at all?
PP: I really don't.
BR: Okay.
DW: About the announcement, though. You were working up to
an announcement. You were saying that he may announce
something at the end of the year? What would that be? What does
your grapevine tell you?
PP: My grapevine tells me that he is going to announce that there
are indeed such things as flying saucers, and there is indeed
technology transfer, and there is indeed beings behind it that
didn't come from this planet.
KC: How many different kinds?
PP: I... You know, we're getting into speculation here that...
BR: Understand.
PP: You know, whether the person that told me would know, I
have no idea. Whether the President would know, I have no idea.
Whether we even know, I have no idea. But a number of them,
more than, say, three or four.
BR: Good.
PP: Again, if you go back and look at the number of people who
seem to have seen such people, you get kind of a: Well, there's a
reptilian type, and there's a long-face type and a round-face type
and a tall type and a short type and...
It isn't just like one person said this and one person said that. It's
50 people in the U.S. and 20 people in Germany and 300 people
in Brazil and 80 people in Africa say this. Then for the next
bunch there's maybe 40 or 50 in Russia and 25 or 30 in Germany.
You know, you can't discount all of those things when, from
totally disparate regions that have no real communication, and
people have no real communication with each other, you have
people doing exact descriptions and large amounts of exact
descriptions.
BR: Yeah. And tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands,
reporting contact with the little guys with the almond-shaped
eyes and the big heads, who many people say are responsible for
abductions. Do you know anything about that at all?
PP: All I know is that I've talked to a number of those people and
many of them seem to me to be very credible. Many of them
seem to me to have read somebody else's report and then they
wanted to be in the thing and made it up.
BR: Are any of these abductions military operations?
PP: I wouldn't have any idea.
BR: You don't know. Okay.
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[Ed note: video splice begins here.]
PP: Look, I can't see why the dollar didn't crash in 2001,
absolutely couldn't see why it didn't crash. Because it was backed
with nothing. It was inertia, in my opinion, it was inertia only that
carried it on. And sure, there were a lot of people behind the
scenes manipulating various things. You saw how they
manipulated billions and billions of dollars that didn't even... not
only were bogus dollars, i.e. dollars that were printed with
nothing behind them, dollars that didn't even exist!
People fail to look at this fact. If, let's say – we’ll use just round
figures – let’s say that there's $1,000 issued, okay? Who issues
the dollars? The Fed issues the dollars – totally outside of the
Constitution, as far as I'm concerned.
The Fed issues $1,000. They then rent those dollars to the bank.
What does the bank do? The bank rents those dollars out to
people so they can by a car, a home, whatever. They say: We'll
rent this out to you and it'll be at five percent interest. Now, what
that means is they've taken a thousand – and if they have $1,000,
the banks are allowed to loan out $17,000. So let's say you have
ten percent interest on $17,000. Now that's $10,000 plus another
$7,000. Where does the $7,000 come from to pay it back? It
wasn't ever issued. It didn't ever exist. How can they pay back
more than there ever was? And people don't understand the
concept of fiat money!
KC: Right. There are many videos on Google that people can
watch on this very subject and get educated.
PP: Yeah. Absolutely! And the problem is that people have been
taught that if you just stick your head in the sand and don't look,
it isn't going to bite you.
BR: Keep on watching American Idol and you'll be all right.
PP: Keep on watching American Idol, and keep on going to the
movies, and keep on, you know, whatever.
DW: I'd like to say one thing. There is footage that you can see of
an announcement that Rumsfeld made on September 10th, 2001,
about money that was “lost” in the military budget to the tune of
2.3 trillion dollars – the day before September 11. So is that in
anyway related to what you’re talking about with the year 2001?
PP: Probably is, and there are a number of other things. Let’s
look at what happened on September 11th. [laughs] A building
that wasn’t even involved crashed to the ground, and in the
basement of it was stored a massive amount of gold. It was never
found. [laughter] Okay? Never found! And why would that
building fall down? Not even ashes fell on it. It was out of the
wind pattern.
DW: Right.
PP: Where did that money go, and why did that building fall
down?
KC: Well, do you know the answer?
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PP: Well, I think I know the answer but I don’t know that I’m
convenient with giving that answer. Because, you know, I don’t
want to prompt somebody to go look for it because I know what I
feel they’d find. I think what they’d probably find is an early
grave.
BR: By now people watching this video will understand why we
were so keen to introduce Pete to this audience, and will
understand what we were saying when we referred to twelve
hours of off-record conversation yesterday, that we haven’t even
begun to bottom out even so.
What we’re able to provide here is only a very short summary of
some of the things which Pete knows. So, with apologies, we’re
going to move on because we’ve only got a certain amount of
time and a certain amount of tape, to other areas because there’s
an extraordinary amount of experience and information which
you may want to share.
Let me, first of all, ask you if you’re willing to share any of your
experience about working with Russian scientists, and in what
capacity you did that?
PP: Yes, I’d be more than happy to do that... [sighs] some of it, at
least. After the fall of the Wall, I went to Russia and worked with
a number of top scientists there that were involved in their space
program.
BR: And you went to Russia, let me say euphemistically, in a
professional capacity?
PP: In a professional capacity. I came by invitation and went
there. One of the things we did was, we took – and I’m going to
use Russia in general terms, meaning the old Soviet Union.
BR: The U.S.S.R.
PP: I went to various countries that were at one time part of the
U.S.S.R.
I was there, for example, when Ukraine declared their
independence, and I knew the man who was the first president
there. So we took out of the U.S.S.R. a lot of technology that had
been pent up, and brought back, and donated it to the government
here.
I got to see brilliant, brilliant, brilliant technology that – some we
knew about, some we had, and some we didn’t have, specifically
in materials science and in things that could be used to generate
alternative energy.
New ways of building motors, new types of materials for
building motors and spacecraft. Motors and spacecraft. New
ways of storing electricity in capacitors which would be very
handy in making electric automobiles, meaning that you could
take all the energy that normally is sent to the air as heat and
braking and put that energy into a capacitor device which would
then bleed off into a battery and recharge the battery of the car to
a certain extent.
BR: Did the technology behind the Aurora come from the
Russians?
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PP: No. That technology was invented specifically right here in
the United States by a scientist that I, in my memory, worked for
General Dynamics for a period of time, and probably worked for
Rocketdyne or General Atomic for a period of time. Remember,
General Atomic was highly disturbed when Lyndon Johnson
refused to give them any more government contracts unless
they’d move from San Diego to Texas.
BR: Mm-hm. But the Aurora’s been moth-balled anyway because
that’s old technology, isn’t it?
PP: Well, I would assume that. But it was a technology where
you spray gas out through a surface and then explode the gas;
mix it with oxygen and explode it. It’s like push-shooting a
pumpkin seed. The pressure, external, would push against it and
push it forward at very high rates of speed. They’re very
efficient.
BR: Okay, so... [laugh] That was our 60-second sound byte about
the Aurora, which is worth an interview in itself. But go back to
what you feel that we learned from the Russians, because we had
some fascinating conversations about this.
PP: Well, we learned an awful lot about material science. There
was a man by the name of I. M. Frenchovic [unclear] that was a
believer in quantum physics. So he wouldn’t hire anybody – this
was in the late ‘50s or mid-50s – he wouldn’t hire anybody for
his institute that didn’t absolutely believe in quantum physics. So
a lot of the work they did was based on quantum physics and we
hadn’t quite decided whether that was real or not.
Whether it was real or not, they came up with a lot of things that
were very interesting. Additionally, they were doing a lot of
research work in such areas as remote viewing and telekinesis
and such things.
We learned a lot. We brought a number of people out from there
that taught us things.
This was a very interesting thing that happened in the Soviet
Union. If you look at their government, it’s kind of a three-
branch party system. You have the people from industry, the
people from government, and the people from the political
pedagogy, so that to get the full vote you had to have someone
vote that it wasn’t in violation of Stalinist-Leninist political
dogma.
A lot of science was definitely outside of Stalinist-Leninist
political dogma, therefore the scientists were very frustrated and
so there was a lot of information they were willing to give out
because their government had told them it was baloney anyway
so why not give it away? They wanted to see their ideas and
thoughts utilized.
Secondly, there were a lot of them that, one way or another,
snuck out and came to work for the West and brought a lot of
very good information, including a lot of the very basic things
that were happening in what we’ll call psychic phenomena or
mental talents.
It really isn’t that. It’s actually a definite science and there’s a lot
of technology that’s behind it. We hear a lot of stories about that
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from the government, a lot of past history that’s, much of it,
disinformation. We’re told that: Well, we learned a few things
from it but it wasn’t particularly good. I think that that’s very
wrong because I know it’s particularly very good and I can’t
imagine that they’re not using that kind of technology.
Additionally, we learned a tremendous amount of things about
outer space technology. We learned a lot about the amount of
radiation that you find outside the ionosphere and the problems
that that causes. We had some problems with our early astronauts
because we didn’t know what was there.
Notice there were several lulls in our space program as we found
out new things, and then geared up to take into account the
malevolence of outer space. You know, out of that came a lot of
conjecture that there was way too much radiation for us to have
had people in outer space.
One of the things that very much interested me was when the Mir
Space Station was crashing. They were worried about the fact
that it had a little radioactive material on it that might cause
problems on Earth and they didn’t know exactly where it was
going to fall.
But one of the things the Soviets announced... and one of the
things I do is I listen to short wave, because when you listen to
short wave, you hear about the same event, the same people, the
same place, the same time, and a completely different story of
what went on there. [laughter] So the press in the United States is
either completely ignorant or it’s completely controlled, as far as
I can tell.
But one of the things the Soviets did was announce the weight of
the Mir station. When you look at that weight, you find out it was
about 5,600 shuttle loads of material. They didn’t launch that
much, we didn’t launch that much, so why would the Mir weigh
as much as it did?
The explanation is, which you can find out for yourself if you
merely take a sensitive Geiger counter on a plane flight, is how
much radiation is up there just at 30,000 feet. You’re allowed one
or two chest X-rays a year; you get a chest X-ray every two or
three minutes out there, you know, that was a problem. If you
look at some of the symptoms of problems some of the early
astronauts had, you’d realize that it probably was radiation
poisoning.
BR: How did the mass that constituted all that extra shielding...
PP: My feeling is that the extra mass that was there on that
station was shielding.
BR: How did it get up there?
PP: That’s an interesting question. I didn’t see us launch anything
that could’ve taken it there.
BR: Did the Russians launch it there?
PP: Not that I know of. I mean, you’ve seen the...
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BR: Okay. Now, what that implies, then, is that we could never
have made it to the Moon in the way that it had been advertised
that we went to the Moon because everyone would’ve been fried.
Is that too simplistic a conclusion?
PP: Well, that’s my conclusion. I mean, I know one thing. You
can go to look at the Moon diorama at Jet Propulsion Laboratory
and you can ask the question: Was the Lander pressurized with
oxygen? They said: No, we didn’t have a place for it. They had to
wear their spacesuits. And here’s the astronaut standing there
with his spacesuit on, and here’s the door to the Lander open, and
you can see that that spacesuit wouldn’t fit through that door
without the astronaut in it.
[laughter]
BR: Right.
PP: So I did have a bit... You know, there’s a bit of speculation
there.
BR: What we’ve been told by our witness Henry Deacon is that
some of the Apollo missions did actually go to the Moon, but not
without help from our friends, as it were. Can you make any
comment on that, or is this..?
PP: Well, it’s my feeling as a scientist that, if we went to the
Moon, we had to have help from friends.
KC: And off-world friends, you’re talking about?
PP: I'm talking about...
BR: We’re talking about friends in high places. [laughs]
PP: ...friends in high places. From high places.
BR: But we do have friends in high places, do we?
PP: Far as I know.
BR: Do we have any enemies?
PP: Far as I know, we do. I mean, there’ve been malevolent
things happening all over the world that... You know, you can’t
deny cattle mutilation and you can’t deny some personal, or
human, mutilation; or, certainly, biomedical manipulation. I
mean, it’s happened. Somebody did it, and it could have been
done from here. But when you examine that...
You know, Linda Moulten Howe has written extensively and
spoken extensively on these things, and examined them
extensively. I grew up with her in the same school system and the
same town and know that she was exceedingly bright, and got
brighter and brighter as time went by. I don’t doubt that a lot of
her conclusions are correct conclusions. She’s someone that I
would absolutely trust in that.
You know, I say if something happens in one spot, you don’t
know. But when something happens time after time, year after
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year, in all different kinds of locations where people don’t know
each other and don’t communicate with each other and don’t read
each other’s newspapers and it doesn’t make the press, it seems
highly likely that those things happened.
BR: I understand. Now, among many other things you are, let me
use the word, an electronics genius, if I may. Are you in
possession of any information about the constitution of implants
that have been recovered from abductees?
PP: Well, I’ve talked to people who have removed what they felt
were implants. I deal almost daily with nanoelectronics and
microelectronics, and the descriptions and pictures I’ve seen have
nothing to do with any nano- and microelectronics that we have
from anyone that I know of here on this planet.
Many of them, or most of them, are biological in nature. I know
that one doctor who's removed a number of what they felt were
implants, the implant acted like it was alive and moved through
the body away from the surgeon trying to remove it.
I knew that some of them, when they were taken out, were
minutely dissected, and I’ve seen the pictures of that. They’re
devices that signals could be obtained from that were obviously
intelligent signals. They were not random things, they were not
biological things, and yet it was biological material that had
obviously been engineered for a specific purpose.
BR: That’s really incredible.
PP: I’ve never seen anything in writing that would lead me to
believe that we had that kind of technology on this planet.
BR: Mm-hm. When we’re talking about friends or enemies in
high places, you feel that wasn’t a particularly friendly thing to
do?
PP: I have no idea. It could well have been. I wouldn’t doubt but
what we’ve had that from both sides. Friends and enemies.
BR: Okay.
PP: I think there are people here... There are people that I felt had
crucial knowledge to the perpetration of the planet the way we’d
like it to be, and I’ve seen them saved from disease,
miraculously. But they had had some incident that they seemed to
have a memory of that we would call maybe an abduction, or
maybe a kidnapping and manipulation.
BR: So they’re being helped and supported.
PP: They’re being helped and supported, it appears, from
somewhere.
BR: Our experience would support that, all the testimony we’ve
received from a lot of people. It’s just interesting to hear your
view. This is something we didn’t even talk about yesterday.
PP: Well, I try to look at everything from a scientific viewpoint;
from a really unbiased, observational point of view. Being as I
got involved in quantum physics early, which is something that
271
deals a lot with probabilities, I try to figure the probabilities of
things... make observations and feel the probabilities: Well, what
would this mean?
From a probability standpoint, what’s the probability that it just
happened spontaneously? And the probabilities are approaching
zero.
What’s the probability that we had something that would do this?
Probabilities are zero or very low.
What’s the probability that it might have come from some outside
intelligent source? The probabilities are up in the, you know, 99
percent region. [laughs] Then, after you see one after another
after another of these, you begin to think, you know, maybe I’m
on the right track here.
BR: Yeah. When does it become a reasonable certainty? Yeah,
right.
We’ve just mentioned the testimony from our witness and
colleague Henry Deacon and now you’ve talked about your
experience working with quantum physics. You told us about...
Sorry, let me start this again.
Henry told us about his research work in what some people call
signal non-locality, or actional communication at a distance. One
of the Holy Grails of physics is to build a working device such
that there can be instantaneous communication that can traverse
light years in no time. Is this something which you're able to talk
about at all? Do you have any opinions, experience or..?
PP: Well, I’ve done a number of experiments and I definitely
have opinions. I can say that Maxwell was right. One of the
things I found out was...
BR: This is James...?
PP: James Clerk Maxwell, who wrote the first exposition of
electromagnetic theory. From a little bit of his work... the way I
like to describe his work, it’s like you took a white sheet of
paper. And he took the end of a paintbrush and dipped it in paint
and made splotches all over this white sheet of paper. He said:
Here’s something I saw. Here’s something I believe. Here’s
something I’ve experimented on and so forth.
So now you have a white sheet of paper with a lot of splotches,
which I liken to a window that you could peek through just a few
holes in the window, and each time you peek through you see
something different.
There’s a lot of the area that was still white, that he hadn’t done
any experiments in, but there were a lot of various areas where he
actually did something and had experiments that were repeatable
and were, eventually, describable, if not explainable. So then he
took one large bunch of these and he wrote electromagnetic
theory around that.
Now that electromagnetic theory allowed us to build motors and
generators, electric motors, electric generators, radio transmitters,
television transmitters, radio and television receivers, computers,
the Internet, etcetera, etcetera, over a period of time. So that was
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
passed on down through a line of scientists, engineers, physicists
and so forth and became those motors and televisions and so
forth.
But what happened to all the other swatches? Many of them were
never, never... the knowledge was never continued, it was never
written about, etcetera, etcetera. So, early on, I went and
replicated most of the papers, most of the notebooks, most of the
letters that went back and forth, and I started looking at some of
these other things.
One of the things that got out, that people did look at, was a thing
called action at a distance, which meant that something happened
in point A, and at point B - which could be clear across the
universe – something could... information could be sent from
point A to point B faster than the speed of light.
And it didn’t travel; it literally went through some sub-universe
or parallel universe, from A to B, instantaneously and with no
energy required. Just now, in Canada and in Belgium and in
France and in some areas in the United States, there’s a
tremendous amount of research being done in that.
So, it’s something that’s been known at MIT, for example, for
many years; but, MIT knows if they talk about it, they got to back
up and say: All the physics we’re teaching isn’t exactly correct.
So, that really hasn’t happened, but they want to know that if
Harvard says something that they can say: We’ve known about it
for years.
There was a gentleman that I had met [on] several occasions that
ran a kind of an Anomalous Research Institute that found that
these things that kind of violated the pet laws of physics; they
continued to take a look at them. But they knew that, if that
actually worked and was something that could be repeated, that
they better revise their thinking. For one reason or another --
mostly ego, political or economic -- a lot of that stuff wasn’t
brought out.
BR: What can you say about whether there were any practically
functioning devices built that were able to utilize this theoretical
principal of communication or action at a distance?
PP: Ah, probably nothing.
BR: Okay. I remember that Henry Deacon said that he had
actually worked on these devices. He said that the work had been
done at Livermore prior to Alanaspects [unclear] experiments in
Paris in the ’80s.
PP: The problem is, when you said practical.
BR: Okay.
PP: Now here’s the problem. If you have something that works
that doesn’t use electromagnetic radiation, you have to develop a
whole entirely-new technology. Like, how do you tune it? When
you tune a radio, what you’re doing is altering the...
The problem’s with practical. We may have a practical
technology or not. I know that, once I get my lab built, we’re
going to have a practical technology, because I have a lot of work
272
that I’ve done and ideas that I’ve done and I now need to build a
prototype.
It’s how to tune something that doesn’t have a time function. So
how can you transmit more than one signal at a time? Then, I
don’t necessarily want to expose that information because... not
that it’s going to be a billion-dollar product, which it would be. I
mean, imagine a cell phone that’ll work anywhere in the universe
with no energy, or such little energy that it’s inconsequential. Or
Internet that works that way.
BR: As Hal Puthoff once said to me – somebody who I believe
you once knew – is, he said to me: As the dog said -- so many
trees and so little time.
PP: [laughs] Exactly right, exactly right.
BR: So, at this point, I’m going to thank you very much for the
conversations we’ve had both yesterday and today. We’re still on
tape. We’ve got some time left here today. I’m going to hand
over to Kerry with the microphone and camera. David also wants
to ask you some questions about his particular interests and we
want to make sure that we can capture all of this, as we possibly
can do. So, with huge reluctance, I’m going to get out from
behind this camera, because I’d love to talk to you for hours
more. I hope we’re going to get this opportunity later. And right
now I’m going to hand over to Kerry.
PP: Thank you very much for your interest.
BR: Okay.
[music fades in]
...been involved with trying to build flying saucers – you usually
found with flying saucers, if you look at most of the movies there
always seems to be a robot involved with it...
Part 2 - David Wilcock
DAVID WILCOCK (DW): Okay. Now, Pete, one of the
questions that I had for you is that you had mentioned before that
you didn’t like the term consciousness field, and you would
prefer the term information field. I was wondering if you could
explain why that distinction was made in your discussion?
Dr. PETE PETERSON (PP): Because, to me, the consciousness
field deals with consciousness and the information field is mostly
unconscious.
DW: I’d like to double click on that and get more information on
that link.
PP: Well, [laughs] the information field holds everything in the
known universe, and, there’s consciousness – each person has
their own consciousness and their own consciousness field. It’s
one of the characteristics of individuality, or I’ll say information
field. It’s one of the characteristics of the information field that I
think the best English word for is the soul or spirit. The
individual consciousness field of each person is very, very
different.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The information field holds everyone’s consciousness, while the
consciousness field holds each individual’s consciousness, or
their... I guess we could say spiritual characteristic, though I use
spiritual in a very different method than it’s used by religions.
DW: My witness, Daniel, referred to spirit as the intellect. He
said that the intellectual aspects of mind are non-local, that
they’re not happening in the nervous system at all. They’re in the
field where those cognitive processes take place.
PP: I absolutely agree with that. They’re definitely non-localized.
They’re in the consciousness field, which is not localized with
the person whatsoever. It’s everywhere and every-when.
It’s not a device. It’s not a part of the neural or even non-neural
anatomy. It’s a field. It’s like a magnetic field or an electric field
in some respects – in the respects of a field – but it’s non-local,
even though it appears to be somewhat centered around the actual
individual.
It may be what some people call the aura. But it also has
tentacles, if you would, that extend through time and space to
infinity.
DW: There’s a Russian scientist named Budakovski who takes a
holographic photograph of a healthy raspberry plant, shines that
light into a raspberry tumor, and the tumor cells rearrange into
healthy raspberry cells and it grows a new plant. Are you familiar
with anything like that?
PP: Well, I am. I wasn’t aware of that experiment and would very
much like to be, because I’m looking for things that I can
instrument and observe, to try to come to some conclusions. But
that to me is... it would be a necessity that things be that way.
DW: Right.
PP: I’d like to be familiar with the experiment; but, for example, I
found out in human medicine, for example, I’ve come to the
conclusion -- and feel I can prove that to any competent neuro-
anatomist -- that the DNA is merely a factory that generates the
physical part of the body. The DNA gets its information from the
informational field in how to do that. So you find that the
informational field is eternal and holds the spirit or the being or
the information of the person in perfection – whereas the
perfection then runs through the factory. If the factory is missing
the thing that puts the wheels on, the wheels are going to fall off,
if you would.
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And so, the DNA problems that you get with human health and
anatomies are errors that are in the DNA, which it appears, are
pretty much passed down through the family tree. But there’s
also information that comes down through the family tree, and
that’s shown by a lot of work that was done by Joseph Chilton
Pearce, for example, reported by him in The Magical Child.
There’s information that’s transmitted to heart tissue – actually
brain tissue that’s in the heart – and that holds most of the
person’s information about emotional things, and a lot of
information about taste.
For example, they found people with heart transplants all of a
sudden loved mustard when they couldn’t stand it beforehand.
And they find that the person that was the donor loved mustard.
They find that the person that was the donor was a very loving
person, where the person who lost their heart lost it because of a
lot of frustration and a lot of stress and they were a person that
wasn’t a loving person. Now they become a very loving person,
and the people around them have no idea how to relate to them.
DW: Does each person have the same degree of contact with this
information field, or consciousness field?
PP: I would doubt that they do because they’re all individual. For
example, there are people who just seem to be informationally
troubled, if you would, which has nothing to do with being, you
know, personally troubled. But they seem to have problems, even
when you go in and correct things in their...
This is from a health field, because I spent many years in that
field building medical instruments. They’re all computerized and
we had, you know, years and years and thousands of patient visits
that we could go back and take a look at and correlate the long-
term data. That was the instruments that have been out there now
for 28 years in the marketplace, and some 16,000-plus
instruments around the world, and well over a million-and-a-half
patient visits.
So we correlated that data and have shown that much of this must
be the way that things are. So, like the statement that you made
was one that I absolutely agree with, that out of necessity there
has to be an informational field, and out of necessity there has to
be something that drives the DNA.
Now we’ve done some experiments showing that we can
generate this field around the body and the body will act as if the
DNA were perfect. If they had a genetic disease, the genetic
disease goes away. Now with the advent of stem cell research, we
find out that we can use a person’s own stem cells in the body
and heighten this field around the body, and the cells they had,
that are replicable cells, that had a genetic problem, the genetic
problem goes away because the informational field holds the
perfect information rather than the flawed information of the
gene itself.
DW: Well, that’s like the Budakovski raspberry thing I told you.
PP: Exactly.
DW: The tumor was transformed. Yeah.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
PP: Yep.
DW: How can someone strengthen their contact with this field
that they have? Do you have any exercises, or ways, or
technology perhaps, anything that they could do?
PP: I have technology that could do that, and that’s one of the
products that I intend to come out with once we get the laboratory
and factory completely built.
DW: Well, that’s tantalizing, but what have you done? What
could you do? What could it do for someone?
So we found there was a direct correlation to, not only to the
organ system, but to actual parts of it. For example, down the
outside of the thumb you have a point that gives you information
about the entire lymphatic system – just below the first joint. But
above the first joint, it talks about the lymphatics that are in the
tonsillary ring.
When we inject here [touching the side his left thumb], the
radioactive material goes to the tonsillary ring. When we inject
here [touching same thumb, but closer to bottom knuckle], it goes
the whole lymphatic system.

PP: We’ll know that once we get it done and do the testing on it,
so... I know what I think it would do and, you know, we’ve been
very successful with these instruments. The American Medical
Association publishes every year the number of clinical
diagnoses that their doctors, they feel that their doctors got
correct. This year it jumped all the way up to 6% from 5% the
previous year. We have 85% of the patients that use the medical
equipment that I’m talking about, 85% of the patients feel that
within two days they don’t have what they had when they came.

DW: Do you believe in acupuncture points on the body?

PP: Well, I have to believe in them because they’re there, and You go down [indicating different points down the side of the
you can go to Radio Shack, or you can go to Harbor Freight and thumb] and, you know, it goes on down the body.
buy a $4.00 or $5.00 dollar meter and adjust the meter
appropriately and run those on the body and find every one of the
The same thing, you know, if you work across the hand, you have
points, put a little dot there; go compare yourself to an
lymph and lung and circulation and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
acupuncture chart, and you’ll look exactly the same.
[pointing to different places on his hand] You come over here
and you have the heart and the small intestine. You can go down
I did find out how the acupuncture system works. There have and inject here and it goes to the mitral valve. Here it goes to the
been a number of people that postulated it, but they didn’t show aorta. Here it goes to, you know, this chamber, that chamber,
that it worked. I worked with Dr. Jean Claude De Roche at the etcetera, etcetera.
French Institute of Science. He’s a very famous acupuncturist. He
taught the Chinese acupuncture. They did away with acupuncture
Then you go down on the feet, the acupuncture points are the
in the ’20s and made it illegal, even though it was practiced down
same thing. We also found that the acupuncture points, the
every alley, and then during the Cultural Revolution they brought
acupuncture meridians aren’t veins, they aren’t vessels.
it back.

The acupuncture meridians, as they’re called, aren’t really

The reason for that was they had a huge plague and acupuncture
meridians. They’re made up of a... If you’ve ever cleaned a game
wouldn’t cure the plague but penicillin would. So the French
animal or a chicken, you’ll notice that between the organs – or
missionaries brought in penicillin and so they did away with
done surgery – between the organs there’s a white filmy layer.
acupuncture and went with penicillin. But acupuncture has its
That layer is built up like a baklava. It’s built up in a number of
definite uses, as does the sister of acupuncture, which is Chinese
layers, and each of those layers is a capacitive, conductive
herbal medicine. It makes sense [that] if you put certain
surface, not meant for conducting materials such as radioactive
chemicals in the body and certain precursors, you’re going to get
potassium, [laughs] but it works as does anything in the body.
certain chemical reactions out of the body.

The body is a biological mechanism. It works like the intestine

So, anyway, the acupuncture system is very interesting. What we
did is we injected radioactive potassium into each acupuncture
point while the person was under a high-speed CAT-scan
machine, and we found that the radioactivity moved directly to
the organ associated with that point...
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Oh, wow.
PP: ...for the 3,300 years that the Neijing has been around talking
about it, and for the 6,200 years that Ayurvedic medicine has
been talking about it.
does, peristaltically, like the heart does, peristaltically. It’s ionic
in nature, so it’s polarized, so it pulsates and moves information.
So that system was an information system. The points are just
above and below each joint, and you have them down each side
of the hand. They’re around an area that’s about a 45-degree
angle toward the finger. And you can take something like a ball
point pen – I don’t see one here [picks up a pen] – but you can
take, not the point of the pen but the point of the case, and you
can probe about a 45-degree angle just above and below each
joint.

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Most people don’t know there’s a joint just like this joint and this
joint and this joint [pointing to the back of his had with the pen],
right down here at the wrist. You can probe those places, and on
ones where you’re having a problem with the organ or organ
system, you’ll find a little hard nodule under the skin, just above
and below the joint, at about 45 [degrees].
If you rub back and forth past those, ones that aren’t too bad,
ones you don’t have a bad problem, you’ll feel the little nodule
but it will actually palpate like it were a little grain of rice filled
with coarse sand. You’ll feel a grittiness or a graininess. And you
go up below the joint and above the joint, and so you can tell
where you have a problem.
Now, what acupuncturists don’t want you to know is, if you take
something that’s a little milder rounded and rub that point, it’ll
feel really good if you have a problem there. And if you take a
piece of metal and do the same thing, different points will feel
differently because the metal thing tends to discharge an excess
of electric field there, and plastic would tend to charge up a point
of extra field there.
It turns out there’s a type of material called an electret. An
electret is to electric field like a magnet is to a magnetic field. So
there’s a way of putting a permanent electric charge on a piece of
plastic.
All the microphones in little tape recorders you’ve ever seen,
99% of them are electret microphones where you have a little
piece of film with a permanent charge. As the voice hits it, the
film vibrates. Then there’s a piece of metal next to it and you
measure the voltage between the two, feed it into the device, and
that’s where the voice signal comes from.
So you can make an electret and rub the various points and it’ll
just feel really good. And you rub it one time or 50 times, and all
of a sudden, it’ll quit feeling good and you move onto the next
point. If you do that on your fingers and on your feet, you’ll feel
really, really good. It’ll normally alleviate almost any problem
you have.
That’s what an acupuncturist does. They can find where those
places are that you need to have a treatment and do it that way.
Another way to do it is use an acupuncture needle and stick it
into the point to charge it or discharge it, and there’s a way to put
it in to do either.
So, one of the products that we came up with is two little pieces
of metal that you can have little indentations on them and you can
rub your points. Those pieces of metal have a number of holes in
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them, and people asked us what the holes were for, if it was
critical to the use of the unit, and I said: No. That’s where you tie
a shoelace, and if you loan it to somebody, you keep one hand
with a shoelace around because they won’t give it back to you, it
feels so good.
[laughter]
PP: So we have tooling to make those and I probably need to
make another batch of them. But anyway, we found that these
were there. Now, it turns out that these points – like this is the
lymphatic system here [pointing to the back of his hand], and this
is the lung system here, and if you go clear to the end of what...
and there are points up the body. If you go clear to the end of
where that meridian is, they all end at a tooth root. The teeth are
piezoelectric. When you squeeze a piezoelectric material, it
generates a voltage.
DW: Discharge.
PP: Or if you take a piece of piezoelectric material and apply a
voltage, it expands or contracts. The teeth are piezoelectric. So
that’s why you should take very good care of your teeth and don’t
get a root canal unless you absolutely have to have it, and, not
that you’ll die, but your health will go down.
So there are some things that we have, these little devices, will
make up for that and will charge you up. Especially people who
are missing a lot of teeth get a real, real success from that, and
they have very, very pronounced little nodules, and their nodules
are usually hard like a rock. If they keep massaging them from
time to time until it quits feeling... It feels as good as a scratch on
a good itch, and when it quits feeling good, move to the next one.
And after a period of time you’ll feel the granularity, and after a
period of time it’ll just get softer and there won’t be any little
nodule under the skin.
DW: My mother had a large nodule right here and it finally went
away, but she worked on it for a couple of years. It was on the
middle finger.
PP: I have one here, as a matter of fact. [laughs] And it comes
and goes.
DW: So you’re saying that the tissues around the organs have an
ionic transfer system, which is...
PP: No. To the organ. They’re around the organ, but they go all
the way up the body. If you start stripping out neural tissue... in
fact, it’s kind of an interesting thing. Most people don’t know
that lions and tigers never eat muscle tissue; it’s highly toxic.
They strip out the blood veins, the vessels, the neural tissue. They
eat intestines and they eat, you know, the heart and the internal
organs. They don’t eat muscle tissue.
DW: Really?
PP: Yep. If they feed ’em muscle tissue and they only give ’em
muscle tissue, they’ll eat it, but they get very ill. It’s very highly
toxic. But people eat all the muscle tissue and throw the good
parts away.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
BILL RYAN (BR): Does that mean that we shouldn’t eat a good
raw steak if you’re a meat eater?
PP: Unfortunately. [sighs] It’s very obvious that I eat anything
that’s slower than I am. [laughter] But that does mean that. As
good as it tastes, it’s not good for you.
DW: I’m just trying to understand...
PP: That’s also why the kosher meats have a very specific way of
sneaking up on the animal and not alarming them and very
mercifully putting them out of their... demise. It’s because they
don’t want that animal to get excited and release a lot of toxins
into the muscle tissue.
DW: Hm. This is not...
PP: Whether they know it or not.
DW: This is not the typical nervous system you’re talking about,
with sodium...
PP: No. There’s no nervous system there. It’s what I’m saying.
DW: Right.
PP: It’s a completely different system. There was a Korean
fellow, Kim Bong Jung, who postulated that there was... He said:
I found the neural system and here are pictures of the little
tubules that carry a yellow fluid, etcetera, etcetera. And that’s all
been reported.
You can find that all over the Internet and you can find it all over
medical literature. But what it doesn’t report is that four years
later he committed suicide and said he was sorry for perpetrating
such a hoax. There isn’t that system. People looked for it and
couldn’t find it and finally he just had to admit that he made it all
up.
DW: Hm.
PP: And so, that isn’t the system. We found how it worked
because we injected the radioactive potassium and then we
looked at it and watched it go through the body. And it goes
exceedingly fast. If you took blood from the tip of this finger and
traced it back to the heart, it doesn’t move very fast. It moves
very, very slowly. It doesn’t race through your veins.
But if you inject the radioactive potassium there, we had to get a
higher speed CAT-scan machine to even see it. It really races. It’s
the frequency of this. It’s like milking a cow or a goat – it’s a
peristaltic action, and it really races through there. It’s a very
high frequency.
DW: Now, you’re saying this is all happening, some interface
with the consciousness field or the information field?
PP: The informational field.
276
DW: Okay. Could you explain that? What’s the energetic
component?
PP: I really... Yeah, that’s a couple hour lecture.
DW: Well, could I get the elevator version? [laughter]
PP: There’s not really an elevator version. It depends where it is,
what it is, what the problem is, which meridian it is.
DW: Okay. If an organ is dysfunctional, why would it matter
what’s going on in your hand?
PP: It doesn’t. It makes what’s going on in your hand. It creates
what’s going on in your hand.
DW: Okay. So, because they’re the extremities, somehow...
PP: Because we’re built that way. KC: You’re saying you can
either heal it on the hand or you can heal it directly on the organ,
right?
PP: No.
KC: No?
PP: No, I wasn’t saying that at all. What I’m saying is that
problems in the organ manifest themselves both physically and
informationally at the appropriate points on the body.
Now, if you think about it, when you build a car; any car that
you’ve had in the last 10 or 12 years has an electrical connector
under the seat. You plug a computer in there and it’ll say: The
oxygen sensor’s bad. The brakes are getting weak. It’ll say a
number of things.
So, let’s assume that somehow, whether divinely or by genetics,
we were designed. Why not design a system where you could test
the thing? I mean, we don’t come with an operator’s manual, but
maybe we come with a system that is very easy for us to find out
what the problem is and then alter things.
Now, one thing we found out is that every substance has an
informational field around it. We found out a way to take that
substance, place it on a device, and from the device find a
numerical signature for that information field. Then we found a
way, therefore, to store it in a computer.
Now we can take the computer and run that information back out
and generate an informational field. We can make that field
large, so it surrounds the body. And we can then measure in real
time at these points, some of which -- most of which -- are
acupuncture points, and some aren’t. There are some acupuncture
points that we find don’t do anything, even though they’re
classical points.
Now, you know, 6,000 years ago, or 3,300 years ago, they didn’t
have any kind of measurement instruments, so we now have a
bio-feedback system that will actually do that.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DW: A lot of our audience is going to think of the Rife machine
when you say these numerical signatures.
PP: That’s very unfortunate.
DW: Okay?
PP: Because there’s no correlation whatever. It has nothing to do
with the Rife machine.
DW: Okay.
KC: Didn’t you work for Royal Rife?
PP: I worked for Rife for a period of time, yes. I know how his
instruments worked and it has no bearing on this whatsoever.
This is a very gross, mechanical type of thing.
DW: Okay.
PP: And it doesn’t work at all like anybody thinks. That’s another
story. But, anyway... threw me off a little bit here in my thinking
about this.
DW: You can play a signature for a specific compound.
PP: Yeah, we can make a signature of a compound, and what
happens is, the body will react to that informational field as if
you had given the person that substance. So you can go to an
acupuncture point and get information from it that you can graph
and chart on a machine, and it will tell you whether that organ is
in a type of inflammatory process, or in a degenerative process,
and how much, how long it’s been there, whether it’s winning the
battle or losing the battle. Then you can put the person in an
informational field from a substance that you think may solve
that problem, and ask the body. The body will react exactly as if
you’ve given that substance, so you can select a type of
treatment.
BR: When somebody is given a placebo, are they affecting their
own informational field?
PP: Absolutely. Placebos work 50 percent of the time, and it isn’t
because placebos have a physical effect. They have a mental
effect in some instances, and they have an informational effect in
some instances.
BR: So you should be able to affect your own informational field
without a placebo.
PP: Yes. People asked me when I built these very complex
computerized machines that do the diagnosis and selection of
treatment, they asked me: What’s your goal for this machine?
And I said: My goal is, when the doctor throws the thing in the
Dempsey Dumpster, and just does it.
That can be done. However, the machine takes away his
emotional state and his emotional interference with it, and the
patient’s emotional state and the patient’s emotional
characteristics with it.
277
But, one of the machines that I want to come out with in the
future is one that’s a bio-feedback device that allows the patient
to put himself in an informational or mental state that affects the
problem with the body. That can be done. It can easily be done,
and other than gross poisoning, or gross over-consumption of
something...
For example, it’s very beneficial to have vitamin A. We don’t get
enough vitamin A in our bodies. But, you take too much vitamin
A and you’ll find yourself gaining water and getting ascites, and
some people die from it. Many people almost die from it. So, too
much of a good thing is too much, no matter how good the thing
is.
DW: A lot of people are going to want to know, is anybody using
this technology? Are there any doctors that are using it?
PP: There are, right now, in the United States, that I know of,
18,000 clinics.
DW: Eighteen thousand?
PP: Eighteen thousand clinics using this technology. I taught
seven companies how to make it. About five other companies
came in and stole the information from them, which, if they’d
come and asked me, I’d have handed it to them.
DW: Hm.
PP: Because I knew it was going to need 20 or 25 years out there
before it got itself established. And so what I did was I let other
people do it, and I ran around in front of them like the man that
runs in front of a curling stone and sweeping a pathway for it. I
went around in front of them sweeping a pathway in front of the
FDA.
[Ed. note: Pete is talking about the Scottish sport of Curling, in
which a Curling Stone is slid on ice. A man with a broom goes in
front of it, sweeping the ice, smoothing the surface so that the
stone can slide more freely.]
We got a very, very good publicity man whose mother had been
given, I don’t know, eight or ten weeks to live, and we kept her
alive for another 17 years.
DW: Oh my gosh.
PP: He felt very happy about that, and so he jumped on our
bandwagon. Out of that, it finally ended up, about 10 or 12 years
later there’s actually an alternative medical branch of the FDA,
and that branch handles things like we have. In the meantime, I
spent a lot of money, and a lot of time and effort, and got this
device actually approved by the FDA.
DW: That was my next question. There must be publications.
There must be documentation out there.
PP: Well, the only documentation I know is, when you put my
name into a computer, it’ll come up and tell what a fraud this
device is, and how it’s a quack device. But if you find out who
put that in there, you’ll find out that he says the same thing about
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
a lot of other things that work. Then if you go and watch the man,
you’ll find that the checks that he cashes at the bank are from
large pharmaceutical companies and from the government at
times.
DW: Right.
KC: So, what name are they going to put into the computer for
that device?
PP: I’m not going to say that. I’m not interested in thousands of
people associating that and being able to show their friends that
I’m a fraud. Anybody who wants to know if it’s a fraud, come to
me. I’ll give you the closest doctor, and you can go there and ask
the doctor whether his 3, 5, 7, 10,000 patients that went there,
and two days later walked out without their problem, think that
it’s a fraud.
Now, I know it’s not 100% placebo because placebos only work
50% of the time. And even though the medical people -- the
AMA -- says their doctors only get 5% of their clinical diagnoses
correct... If they only get, you know, 5% or 6% now this year, of
their clinical diagnoses correct, what do you think they get
correct with the treatment? You know why they say practicing
medicine.
Or on the other hand, watch the TV show House, and in each
incidence they tried five, or six, or seven treatments, almost
killing the patient each time, and then find out what the solution
is. You know, he’s supposed to be the best diagnostician in the
world, you know, on television. But it’s very true to life. It comes
out of Canada. They’re a lot more frank there. And, you know,
you get the picture of practicing medicine. They don’t have an
idea. They don’t have a way to have an idea.
So I’m now ready, after 28 years of having this device out there
and about somewhere between, oh, probably $1.2 to $4 million,
or maybe more, patient visits behind it; all computerized. In the
medical terminology, it’s anecdotal because the patient can’t tell
you if they’re well or they don’t have the symptom any longer –
that’s illegal.
But, I’m now ready to go up against any one of them, because I
can prove that my diagnoses with this type of machine are
absolutely correct, because when they go look with conventional
diagnostic tools and equipment, I’ll see the problem as much as
20 years before it manifests itself in the body where common
medical things can test it.
How can I prove that? Well, I’ll wait 20 years and prove it.
That’s what we’ve done. That’s why I have 27 years of testing
done on it. That’s why I have people that came and thought it was
a fraud and didn’t accept the medication, but I watched them over
a period of time and saw them eventually die of what I told them
they would die from.
So I now have enough evidence. I’m ready to go and do that,
except I’m not going to do that because I don’t have any desire to
be assassinated. I have people that have more testicles than I have
that are willing to do it... pardon my 10 years in the Marine
Corps.
278
DW: You said there’s a lot of clones of this technology out there,
people have stolen it from you and...
PP: They didn’t steal it from me. They stole it from other people.
I gave it away, so they couldn’t steal it from me. If they’d come
to me, I’d have given it to them.
DW: Is it variable in terms of how well they work, like...
PP: Oh, absolutely. The first thing I did was... in my instrument,
when you touch the body, in the beginning, the person doesn’t
know where the points are, so I put a Point Locator. And the
Point Locator made a tone, which almost everybody likened it to
the sound of a cow that was dying. [laughter] Okay?
So, when I gave the people how to build this thing, they built it,
and everybody says: Oh, that sounds like a cow dying, so they
changed the tone. They eliminated 80% of the effectiveness of
the machine, because the tone carried a lot of information, that, if
the doctor had only persisted with it for a month, he could then
hear that tone and he could cut down diagnosis time from 35 to
40 minutes to 2½ to 3 minutes.
DW: Wow.
PP: It just became natural. He’d: Oh, I know what that means. I
know what that tone means. Let me try this, let me try that.
He can dial up on the machine now some 850,000 different
substances that are in this world. All the medications of every
medical system known; all the herbals of every herbal system
known; all the magic healing potions of every magic healing
potion system known; all the chemicals that are out there that are
man-made; all the chemicals that you find in nature; all the
vitamins; all the minerals; all the pharmaceuticals in the
homeopathic pharmacopeia, and in the allopathic pharmacopeia.
Everything’s there. So, you can do it; the machine will help you
sort those out and find out exactly what will alleviate the
problem.
And many times you’ll find something that will alleviate a
problem in the, for example, the small intestine, but find that it’ll
aggravate the neural system. So you say: Oh, well there must be
another medication that’ll work and not counteract something
here. So you can go back and find that particular medication.
Now you know what to give.
Now, you can ask it: Okay, if I’m going to give this, how much
should I give? It’ll tell you an exact amount. And like everything
in nature, there’s a bell curve produced, a curve that looks like a
bell, and you want that medication that’s right at the peak of the
bell curve. You want just that amount that’ll produce that
reaction and – BANG – you give it.
Many times when we give the medications to a patient, they’ll
bounce up and down like they were at Disneyland on Mr. Toad’s
Wild Ride, and they’ll say: Ah, ah, I’ve had that pain for 20 years
and now it’s gone.
Did we heal him? No. Did we cure them? No. Why do I say: No?
Because it’s against the law.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Do they believe they were healed? Yes. Did they believe they
were cured? Yes. What makes the difference?
DW: One thing that I think is really important is, if this video is
out there online, there’s going to be a lot of people that want to
claim that they have this technology to profit from it.
PP: Oh, absolutely.
DW: And it may not be the one you’re actually talking about.
PP: Absolutely.
DW: How do we prevent against that? Is there any search term
we can give people on Google?
PP: I don’t know that we can prevent against it.
DW: Or doctors that are actually using the right one? Or...
PP: The problem is that the first, about 6000 doctors I trained,
and they had machines that moo-ed like a cow and it was really
good, and after that it went downhill. So, again, I’m building a
laboratory and a factory where I will produce these, and instead
of having to do, like you have to do today, pay between $12 and
$50,000 dollars for one of the machines...
DW: Oh.
PP: I’ve got one that’s built in a fountain pen and we’ll probably
sell it for around $99.
DW: Wow.
BR: But there are similar healing modalities in existence, which
is...
PP: Oh, there are some that work beautifully.
BR: Radionics, you know. Go on...
PP: Well, yeah. There are radionics machines that...
BR: I’m not saying it’s the same. I’m just saying it’s something
that works...
PP: Yeah, it works very well.
BR: ...in the informational field.
PP: Oh, it works very well, and it works with, on... Exactly right.
It works through the informational field.
DW: Have you heard of the SCANAR, the Russian SCANAR?
PP: I’ve definitely heard of the SCANAR, having spent about,
oh, eight months with the people doing it...
279
DW: Really?
PP: ...and working together with them. There’s another machine
for pain. It’s called the Acuscope, which was brought to this
country by Tony Nebrinski who was the KGB man in this
country looking for medical technology to send home to Russia.
DW: There’s a guy named Dr. Hartmut Muller who built this
LED thing that you put on your skin. Is that another one that you
think works?
PP: No.
DW: It doesn’t work?
PP: No, I didn’t say that.
DW: Oh.
PP: I said there are things that work a lot better. That’s what I
meant to say.
DW: Okay. But people can also, as you said, massage these
points on their hands.
PP: The best medical machine I ever invented were these two
little things we call Acu-Combs [Ed note: did a search and did
not find this device, so the correct spelling of this is unknown.]
that you just rub your points with and get well.
DW: Is there a way people could build those on their own?
PP: They probably could as soon as they saw one, but it’s easier
and cheaper to buy one from me, because I paid thousands of
dollars for the tooling and they stamp them out like...
DW: Great.
PP: ...shells coming out of a machine gun, and they put ’em in a
tumbler and tumble them, and they actually have electric material
that we invented to actually do the charging. It’s interesting in
that you can take one of the units and do it.
By the way, you can find out how you’ll react to any food. One
of the best things is that anything that goes in the body, you say:
How do my organs react to that?
There’s a reason that the highest-paid doctor is the
anesthesiologist. It’s because he has to pay the most insurance.
And I think... I may be wrong. You’d have to check what it is
these days, but when I was working on it, two out of every 100
people were killed by the anesthetic.
BR: That’s about right. [overtalk]
PP: This thing will tell you exactly because this finger and the
distal side of the middle finger tells you about food absorption
here, and allergy here. It will tell you whether you have an
allergic dispensation toward that medicine. That anesthetic, it’ll
tell you how your body will react to it.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: How does it tell you?
PP: By making an indication. There’s an indication on a meter
and on a chart. When you learn how to read the meter and learn
how to read the chart, which can be taught in approximately one
minute, you can tell whether you’re going to have an allergic
reaction or not.
Another thing we found was, out of a major university’s animal
husbandry department, we found that there are 33 substances that
all humans and all animals are allergic to. Most of them are
phenolic compounds that have a 6-sided benzene ring in the
molecule, and a couple are hormones, and a couple are proteins.
We found out that we can measure here and we can find out
exactly – if you have allergies, exactly what you’re allergic to.
Then we can take that material and prepare it homeopathically
and give you a couple drops under the tongue and that allergy
will disappear entirely.
Then, after a period of time, it may come back, and we’ll find
that you need a homeopathic remedy of a different, what they call
potency or strength, and then you take that. Sometimes it takes
you three or four days to chase this thing around and find out
exactly what you need, but eventually you’ll get to an end point,
and you won’t have that allergy. As far as I know, and we’ve
tested people now for 28 years, nobody’s ever had an allergy
come back.
DW: Wow.
PP: And we’re dealing strictly with an informational system here
that modern science refuses to do. But it doesn’t seem to make
much difference to those people who had allergies and don’t, that
modern science doesn’t like it. It doesn’t fit their paradigm,
which is wrong.
BR: I just want to say, on camera here, that what we are very
clear about, having spent quite some time talking with you, that
you’re not trying to get rich through any of this. You want to
make this technology available.
PP: No, I don’t. No, I have no need to make any money. The only
reason I want to build the things is so they’re built right, and they
moo like a cow [laughter] – a dying cow. Because that gives it...
that lets the doctor do the treatment for much less, or the
diagnoses for much less money.
And remember, the doctor only uses this to help him in making
his diagnoses. The diagnoses can’t be made by a machine, only
made by a doctor.
BR: Yeah.
PP: That’s why in the beginning, we only sold them to card-
carrying AMA, card-carrying MDs. Then we sold a few to
chiropractors. We sold a few of them to osteopaths, a few of them
to naturopaths.
Then, the first person to have one that was a veterinarian was the
Veterinary Commissioner for the State of Nevada, and she started
using them. Then we have now... I quit keeping track when I
280
started trying to keep in front of these people and keep them out
of trouble for using them. And we’ve not had any trouble in using
them, because we kept them out of trouble.
Anyway, at the time – all this was maybe 18 years ago – there
were about 350 veterinarians using them and they were working
perfectly. They could find out what problems animals had, and
how to solve the problem.
BR: Folks, we’re coming to the end of our third hour and there
may be a number of other topics which we want to touch on
before, well, while we have the opportunity. I know there are a
number of other topics. I’ve had my share of the cherry. David, is
there more things you’d like to pick up on? I know that Kerry’s
got some questions too.
DW: Yeah. I’m just sensitive to all the emails that are going to be
coming in. People are going to want to know how to buy these
little plates, so if you say you can machine them, once you’re
ready to do that, can you give us the information?
PP: If I had orders, I could probably ship within two weeks.
DW: Okay.
PP: I can’t tell you what they cost. I know that one of the plates
out of necessity needs to be copper. I know that one of the plates,
the factory that used to make my electric material has gone out of
business.
DW: Hm.
PP: So, either I’ll have to make it or find a factory that does it.
But we have tooling that fits in a machine called the Amada
Punch Press that punches it out faster than you can even see, and
then it just has to be tumbled in the right combination of things to
make it smooth and easy to handle, so it doesn’t have sharp edges
on it.
DW: But it’s not that expensive, is the bottom line.
PP: It’s not really that expensive. The copper in it now costs
about $7.00 or $8.00 dollars for the copper plate, and probably
much the same for the electric plate. Then we have to stamp it
and process it. It comes normally in a little carrying case with a
separation between the two.
DW: Okay.
PP: And a little set of cards that you can fold out that shows all
the points on the hand, all the points on the feet. So there are
pressure points where there are things that you deal with;
indigestion and headaches and that kind of thing.
DW: Well you have your first order right now. [video displays
dr_peterson_orders@projectcamelot.org at the bottom]
PP: [laughs] Yeah. I’ve taken them to, oh, I don’t know, maybe a
couple hundred health fairs and Psychotronic Association
meetings, the Global Science Congress and Tesla Society
meetings and dowsing meetings and so forth, and I’ve never
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
taken them... I started with taking 20, and then I’d take 50, and
then I’d take 100, and I’ve never found the time that I didn’t sell
out before noon...
DW: Right.
PP: ...on the first day. Once I sell three or four, then everybody
is... people can’t put it down. So they’re standing there doing it,
people [saying]: Well, where’d you get that? What does that do?
And the guy is: Here, let me try it.
No. I don’t have a shoelace. Then I’d start giving a shoelace with
them so they’d get them back.
So, anyway, people like the way it makes them feel, they like the
way it makes their hands feel, and they determine by themselves
without any help from the government that they actually do
something for them that they like and so they buy them.
DW: Hm. Well, yeah, I think it’s really important to note that the
healing is within. We all have this power to heal ourselves.
PP: Like I said, in any medical device that I’ve ever done... And
I’ve also, by having the machine as a bio-feedback tool, I found a
number of substances that do miraculous things for the body.
DW: Such as?
PP: Out of all those substances, and all the machines, the best
thing I ever did was the plates; they’re not expensive. What I tell
people is: If you think about this right, you can just throw the
plates away...
...which brings up another device that I’ll be putting out that
looks like a cigarette pack – that’s a bad thing to use – like a pack
of playing cards, and maybe that’s even bad to use. But it’s a
little device that has a headband that you have a little electrode
you soak with salt water in the front and the rear, and it...
DW: Salt water?
PP: Salt water, just regular salt water, table salt. You put that on
and it makes a tone, and we give a little cassette tape that makes a
tone, and you can learn to, with your brain, you can learn to
match. It’s like if I hum or whistle Yankee Doodle ten times, you
can hum Yankee Doodle. And if I do Mary Had a Little Lamb,
you can do Mary Had a Little Lamb. This makes a sound and you
learn to generate that sound by holding your tongue right. Have
you ever seen a watchmaker work?
DW: The position of your tongue changes the tone?
PP: No, no, that’s what I didn’t want to say.
DW: Oh.
PP: If you watch someone that’s doing precision work, like an
engraver or a watchmaker, they do it this way. [sticks his tongue
out the side of his mouth]
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DW: Okay.
PP: Yes, they have to hold their tongue in a certain way and it
lets them do things. But you don’t necessarily have to hold your
tongue right, you learn how to hold your mind right.
DW: So this gives off an even pitch? But the pitch is varying?
PP: No. It’s not an even pitch. It’s a varying pitch. It sounds like
whistling a tune.
DW: Okay.
PP: So you learn to make that tune by thinking right, and
eventually you’ll put it on and if you do different things mentally,
you’ll get different tones. So, you learn to hold those tones, so
you get the tone that was on the little tape. And when you get to
that point, you can then alter these things without the plates. You
can just do it mentally.
DW: This is going to make me sound stupid, but people in the
audience are going to compare that the Monroe tapes, with the
binaural synchronization in the ears.
PP: Yeah.
DW: Is there any relationship with those?
PP: None whatsoever.
DW: I didn’t think so. Is this like an EKG, like it’s a brain wave?
PP: No, no.
DW: Okay. What’s making the tone?
PP: An electrical field that’s generated by the body.
DW: So, why these two points then? [touching his forehead and
center back of his head]
PP: Because those are the ones that work. [laughter]
DW: Okay. So, is it used only for healing? Or are there other...
PP: My favorite thing to do with it is find somebody that’s into
brainwave analysis and brainwave work, and go have them
implement me, and then play Yankee Doodle for them with my
brain. They immediately say: Oops, the machine is broken. We’ve
got to fix it, because nobody can learn to do that. Sorry, I can
teach anybody to play Yankee Doodle with their brain in two
weeks.
DW: But, I mean, are there...
PP: And, once you learn to do Yankee Doodle, you can do Mary
Had a Little Lamb in about ten minutes.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DW: Let’s say you have a guy that can move things with his PP: No, it doesn’t go on the third eye. A lot of your people will
mind; he has telekinesis. ask that. It goes in a different spot.

PP: Yeah. DW: Okay.

PP: But it’s very easy to tell where it goes because you put it on
and it isn’t making... we’ll call it brainwave noise. That’s not
what it is, but then anything that isn’t hooked directly to the brain
isn’t brainwave noise anyway.

BR: I have a 60-second question before this tape goes out. Why
would the agencies be interested in stuff like this?

PP: Oh, I don’t know that I can say that.

BR: Okay. We’ll leave it to our imagination.

DW: And he makes a song on this thing. PP: Leave it to your imagination.

PP: He makes a song, and you buy the song from him, like BR: Okay.
buying an mp3 thing, and you make that song... chances are very
good that you’re going to run that little ball bearing around PP: I can tell you that there were a lot of them bought at SRI.
through the maze with your head. [Ed. note: Stanford Research Institute]

DW: Really? BR: Uh-huh.

PP: Yeah. PP: And a lot of them were bought by...

DW: That’s very interesting. KC: To teach remote influencing.

PP: [speaking quietly] I can tell you that government agencies [music begins to fade in]
have bought those by the thousands.
PP: I didn’t say that. I didn’t even hint that.
DW: How would you get an electrode on the back of your head?
Isn’t that going to go through your hair?
KC: I said that.

PP: Well, surplus-wise, I bought about 10,000 little fold-out

PP: I wouldn’t do that if I were you.
razors that are used to scrape hair off the body when a surgeon
needs to sew it up. You just put a little shaving cream on it and
scrape a little piece off and... KC: Oh.

DW: And there’s a headband you wear? PP: Not unless you’d like a visit. You will have a visit if you
mention it. And you won’t like it.
PP: There’s a headband you wear, and there’s two little
electrodes made out of a special metal, and they have a little [fade out]
cotton sock over them. You soak this; you take water and you put
it in a little bowl, and you stir water and salt together until there’s Music plays over PP’s voice saying: ...been involved with trying
no more salt to dissolve, and you dip those in there and squeeze to build flying saucers, you usually found with flying saucers, if
them out a little bit. Use a little wash cloth with some soap on it you look at most of the movies, there always seems to be a robot
and wipe the grease off the area here [pointing to his forehead] involved with it...
and the grease off the area back here that you’ve balded. You put
it on, and it works just fine.
Part 3 - Kerry Cassidy
DW: Wow. How precise do you have to be in placement? Does it
have to be right smack on? Dr. PETE PETERSON (PP):

PP: No, within a couple inches. ... I wonder. I look at Earth, and I look at the things we’ve done
to destroy this fragile little spaceship that we live on going
through space. You know, we talk about burning, we talk badly
DW: Oh. about all the burning of the rainforests in Brazil, and yet most of
282
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the oxygen’s produced by plankton. Our use of nickel-cadmium
batteries, and lead batteries, and putting them out into the
environment has killed a good part of the plankton. Cetaceans are
beaching themselves, so that there’s enough food left for the
others.
Start of Interview:
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): So Pete, we are very, very happy to be
able to connect with you, and you have been very generous with
your time, with your energy. I hope I have a little more energy
left, because I’m coming after Bill, and after David, and I just
have a few wrap-up questions that I want to run by you, and we’ll
see how this goes.
So, one of the leading things you said was that you were involved
with robots.
PP: That’s correct.
KC: I’m just wondering if we could kind of drill down there a
little bit and talk about what your background was, and how
involved you really were with robots.
PP: Well, having been involved with trying to build flying
saucers, you usually found that with flying saucers, if you look at
most of the movies, there always seems to be a robot involved
with it, so I was very interested in robots.
In the early days, when I built a satellite tracking station before
there were satellites, then tracked the Russian Sputnik when it
was launched and called the government and told them the launch
trajectory and the orbital and the frequency it was transmitting on
– during the McCarthy era – they thought maybe I was a
Communist pinko. So they came and found out that I actually had
a satellite tracking station before there were satellites. I was about
17 years old at the time, so that got a lot of notoriety here in
Idaho.
At that point in time in Idaho on the eastern side of the state,
there was a place that was called the Atomic Energy
Commission, a nuclear reactor test site. It’s where the first
nuclear power generation was done. Anyway, they anticipated
having some nuclear problems there and decided they need some
robotic-type thing that could waltz into a nuclear meltdown and
pull the reactor apart, so that they wouldn’t have a China
Syndrome taking place.
So, eventually I, and a few of my friends, got the contract to do
robots that could do that. I, naturally, had great faith in myself
and said: Oh sure. [laughs]
I found out a lot of things; that was a tremendous education. I
found out that materials that were electrical conductors, inside of
a heavy nuclear flux became insulators, and insulators became
conductors, and…
DAVID WILCOCK (DW): Really?
PP: …very stiff metals became like toast and very brittle and
broke apart, or like ashes. Materials like ashes became very hard,
and grease became like welds...
283
So, eventually we built a couple of different types of... I won’t
call them robots, because they were truly manipulators. They
were devices that at one end looked exactly like we think of a
robot looking. It had a pair of arms that would move and grip.
Actually, we designed them so if you could grip a beaker of
liquid, you could move it very rapidly and it would tilt it
accordingly and not spill it. You could reach around behind you
or in front of you, or out to the side.
Then on the bottom of it, we had some that had three rolling
wheels, and some had little tank treads. So, this was in the 1955-
6-7-8 region of time.
KC: At that point did they have AI?
PP: No, the term hadn’t even been invented yet. So anyway, on
the other end of this device that looked at one end like a robot,
was a thing that a person got into. They had a couple of small
one-inch television tubes with lenses on, and they'd put those on
and they could see stereoscopically. Then they had a couple of
little hands that they could move their arms and hands like it, and
the robot would move accordingly – the manipulator would move
accordingly.
KC: And there could be a distance, right? They could be back
at…
PP: There could be any distance up to 20 or 30 miles, but it
required wires at the time. Later we made some that worked on
radio waves.
But for working with atomic materials, radio waves could be
interfered with, a number of things. They couldn’t withstand that
type of lack of physical security, so all of them that we did for
them had wires.
KC: So let’s fast-forward to a lot more recently, or at least, may
be not even recently. I don’t know when it is you got really
involved in AI and you started to...
PP: Well, first I got involved in computers. In 1975, ’76 we built
a computer that was used in Tokyo at the airport to announce the
plane flights in a number of different languages. It was the first
use I know of a microprocessor chip in a real product.
Then later we built a computer training device to teach people
how to use microprocessors and how to use software to
accomplish various tasks. We built that at a little computer
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
company whose name was Cyberdyne, and one of the people
who worked for us later worked on Terminator whatever-it-was.
KC: Well that was my next question. [Pete laughs] So, I’m not
sure how you want to answer this, but the movie, Terminator, is
not so far off base. Am I right?
PP: No, it’s not so far off base at all. Once we got those working
– and it’s interesting to note that the computer chip we used in
the 1970s, there are more of those produced monthly than all the
Intel chips produced in a year, even today. Because it’s a chip
that was actually designed like a computer, whereas the Intel
chips are not designed like computers.
Intel is paying a lot of royalties to various people who worked in
and on various chips that evolved over the proper evolution of
computer chips – what I consider to be proper. We now have a
chip that’s very, very tiny, and has a number of computers built
into it that automatically look at the task and adapt themselves.
So you may have 10, 20, 30 computer chips working on 30
processes all at once.
KC: In the body of one robot?
DW: In a chip.
PP: Well, in the body of one little, tiny tenth-of-an-inch-square
chip.
KC: That’s operating the robot?
PP: That’s operating a robot. But once we figured out the right
language to use, and the right computer design to use, I then got
involved with a number of people working on building an
artificial intelligence chip that... we’ll call... basically the call on
it was a fuzzy logic chip.
It turns out the only logic that’s not fuzzy is fuzzy logic. It’s a
chip that can look at a number of different inputs, and from those
make a decision that’s correct.
So, with the robot, you can be looking at bumps on the floor; you
can be looking at a doorway as compared to a wall. You can look
at somebody standing between you and the door; you can look at
the width of the door and the height of the door and decide
whether it can go through it or not. It can go over there and
manipulate around the person, go through it, not trip over the cat
on the floor, etcetera, etcetera, all using fuzzy logic.
Then, because a chip was doing digital computing – a fuzzy logic
chip either does digitally (if it’s high-speed enough) [or] it does
analogue computing – it looks at things as we see them in the real
world. The floor can be looked at digitally, like it had millions
and millions of little tiny bumps, or larger bumps; or it can be
looked at analogue-wise, because it can sense the roll of the floor
and move the wheels and so-forth so it doesn’t tip over.
KC: But, weren’t the Japanese really advanced in terms of
robotics?
284
PP: Well, I can tell you that when I went to the Idaho National
Engineering Labs, which is what the Atomic Energy Commission
became, which was one of the nation’s largest research centers.
It’s in eastern Idaho. I think there are 2,200 Ph.D.s that work
there. The whole town is built around... in fact several towns are
built around that center, and much goes on there.
When we went there visiting with super-capacitors that I brought
out of the Ukraine, I got talking to some people who found out I
was the one who built the manipulators, and they said they had a
large contingency of Japanese robotics experts. This was in about
1987, ’88, somewhere in there. They had a large Japanese
conference over trying to sell them manipulators and robots, and
when they saw my robots they said: My God, we don’t have
anything like this. Where in the world did these come from?
We said: Hell, we’ve had it for 50 years. [laughs] So…turns out it
was only about 43 years at that time, but…
KC: So basically, you were working in Black Projects, weren’t
you?
PP: Well, one could say that.
KC: I just have a curious question and we haven’t gone over this
ahead of time, so I don’t know if you can even talk to this, but
it’s not diabolical or anything. But, I’m curious because I used to
love robots, and sort of went on the Net and sort of studied, and
was interested in how far they’ve progressed with all of that. One
of the biggest problems they used to have was when they wanted
them to walk upright like humans that they would fall over. How
did you solve that?
PP: Well, we did it much the same way that Dean Kamen built
his two-wheeled scooter. Are you familiar with the…
KC: Oh, yeah, the... what do they call that?
DW: Segway.
PP: Segway. The Segway. It’s very simple to do.
KC: Which is? If you can say...
PP: Well, you simply have a sensor that senses whether you’re
upright or not. And if you’re not upright, then you use fuzzy logic
to put it back right.
BILL RYAN (BR): Presumably, that’s the kind of stuff they put
in the F-117. It would have fallen out of the sky if it hadn’t had
that kind of…
PP: Yes, it would.
BR: Right.
PP: For example, the programming language that we use is called
FORTH, [spells] F-O-R-T-H. It should have been called F-O-U-
R-T-H, because it was the fourth major programming language,
but in those days, computers wouldn’t take five characters, rather,
six characters, so they had F-O-R-T-H.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Okay, so this kind of segues into mind control, because I
also know that you worked with SRI [Ed. note: Stanford
Research Institute], and you worked with Hal Puthoff, right? And
I understand you probably knew Ingo Swann and a lot of the
people involved in remote viewing.
So, what I was wondering… I think you were involved in MK
Ultra and you can probably talk about that since it’s been
declassified, right?
PP: Well, you can think about that all you want to think about it,
and who knows whether it’s true. I don’t know whether that’s
true.
KC: All right.
PP: I know that I worked in a lot of very interesting areas.
KC: But you know that MK Ultra is declassified.
PP: I don’t know anything about MK Ultra.
KC: Okay.
PP: I mean, I’ve heard about it, and heard about it, and heard
about it. I don’t know anything about it. I know some things that
came out of it, and I know that I researched some of those things,
and I built things that I thought were better and turned them over
to the government. But other than that, I really don’t know. I
actually don’t know that much about it.
KC: Okay. Is it true that you’re still on call for the government?
PP: Well, I’m doing things all the time that I get calls on, for a
number of different governments, actually. I’m actually a
member of the Astronautics Association for Mankind, which is
the Russian equivalent to NASA. I’m on the board of directors.
KC: So, why aren’t you on the board of directors for NASA if
you’re on the Russian board?
PP: Well, mainly because I have no desire to be with a bunch of
clowns.
KC: Okay...
PP: If I wanted to be with clowns, I’d join a circus.
KC: So, you’re really aware of the secret space program, in
essence, and you know that NASA is something of a front for…
almost a distraction?
PP: I haven’t been associated with them for years, so I have no
idea what they’re doing.
KC: Okay, but you said NASA’s a bunch of clowns. Why are you
saying that?
PP: Well, because all I have to do is look at the products they
have.
285
KC: Why are they still…? I mean, I know they’re going to retire
the Space Shuttle any day, but it’s basically a tin can going up in
space. Why are they even dealing with that kind of technology at
this point? Do you know?
PP: Because they have it and it works. They've had about,
maybe… It depends on how you look at reality. They have what I
consider to be about 10% of the budget that they really ought to
have.
If you look at the things that came out of the space program
through NASA, probably 50 to 60 percent of the technology we
use today throughout all industries came out of NASA: the
metallurgy technology and alloys; the temperature-resistant
plastics and metals; large-scale integrated circuits, you know,
basically even the whole transistor technology.
I worked in things like that. My cousin and I did quite a number
of spy satellites. We did the sampling arm that went on the
Viking Lander to Mars, which, by the way, was run by a
FORTH-programmed computer.
So, I worked in and around that area. I worked with North
American Rockwell.
KC: JPL?
PP: JPL. A number of different places, and got to see the things
that came out of there. I got to see brand new things that were 20
years ahead of anybody on Earth actually applied, and things that
were made from them, and they were sent into space, and they
recorded things from space. The camera that you’re shooting me
on, the image sensor in there was basically made for use in outer
space. That’s where they came from.
So, if you look at return on investment, there isn’t a corporation
ever in the history of mankind that returned so much on the
investment, even 10%, of the return on investment that came out
of NASA. It literally transformed our lives into a whole new
century.
Yet they take that, which is the only success story that I think
man really has, and totally mal-funded it. Now, part of the reason
was that they wouldn’t pay the appropriate amount of money to
get the brainpower that they needed. People early on worked for
NASA, not because they got paid good money, but because they
got to accomplish their dream. When finally Congress snuffled
their dream, they quit working for NASA, so now you had
clowns working for NASA. It should have been a circus.
Not that there weren’t great people there, and not that there aren’t
great people there, but they’re totally frustrated, I’m sure.
KC: Right. But there’s also a lot of Black Projects going on under
the table.
PP: I don’t know that they’re going on at NASA.
KC: Really?
PP: They may be. I don’t know.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: What about your familiarity with things like superluminal
travel?
PP: My familiarity… hmm… Well, no, I don’t know anything
about superluminal travel.
KC: Well we have testimony from Henry Deacon and from Jake
Simpson, a couple of what we call whistleblowers, which, in
essence, is what you are at this point in your career, in a way.
PP: Mmm… well, in a way.
KC: Okay, you’re treading a fine line.
PP: Treading a fine line. [laughs]
KC: And they are testifying that we have superluminal travel,
that we have craft that go outside the Solar System. Can you say
anything about that?
PP: I know nothing about it.
KC: Okay. You told us, or at least you talked to me at one point
about being a spymaster. Is that really true?
PP: I don’t know a thing about that.
KC: Okay. Okay, well, we’re kind of striking out here. Where do
you think that we can go with all of this?
PP: Well, I told you the things that I’m [not] willing to talk about.
[laughs] Now you’re trying to get me to talk about them, and
uh…
KC: All right. What do you know about a UFO detector?
PP: I was asked to build a UFO detector when I was about 14,
and eventually built one.
KC: Okay. And it’s operational?
PP: I have no idea when it’s operational. The best I know, they
smashed it immediately.
KC: Who’s “they”?
286
PP: The government. Actually, the President of the United States
at that time.
KC: Really? Okay.
PP: Now, here’s a problem with it. I’d love to do something with
it. It’s a very simple, inexpensive technology.
KC: It's based on Wilhelm Reich's technology?
PP: No, it has nothing to do with Wilhelm Reich. It’s based on
science. The problem with it is that it works in such a manner that
it will detect virtually every single type of thing in the universe.
What that means is that it would be the best anti-collision device
that ever went on board an airplane, because it could see every
other airplane in the sky. That’s the good news.
KC: Okay.
PP: The bad news is it can see any stealth plane just as easily as it
can see a damned dirigible.
KC: So that’s why they destroyed it?
PP: I have no idea why they destroyed it.
KC: Well, can we surmise that that’s why they destroyed it?
PP: I have no idea. I don’t know that it was destroyed. I’m just
telling you that’s my feeling, because I’ve never…
KC: Well, you told me they took it.
PP: I’ve never seen one.
KC: Well I thought you…
PP: Yeah, they took it. So, what did they do with it? I don’t know
if they put it in their pocket or put it in the remnants of the
Smithsonian. I don’t know what happened to it. But I’ve never
seen one out there in operation. I could tell if there were one in
operation.
KC: But how could you tell?
PP: Because of how it works.
KC: Well, I mean…
PP: I’m not about to tell the secrets of it.
KC: I understand that, but you…
PP: I can’t talk about it without telling the secret of it.
KC: You would know if somebody was operating your device?
PP: I’d know if anybody was operating one of them.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: How would you know that unless you’re operating…
PP: I would know that because of how it works.
KC: Okay, would you remote view them, or would you be…
PP: No, not at all.
KC: You have a tracking device on your invention?
PP: It emits something that is absolutely unique to the device.
KC: Oh wow. Okay.
BR: There’s another kind of detector which was destroyed upon
Presidential order, I understand.
PP: Yes, there was.
BR: Are you able to talk about that? Because that’s a fantastic
story.
PP: Probably not. It’s probably not healthy for you guys to talk
about it.
KC: Okay, well I understand that you – and I don’t know if you
can talk about this – but my understanding is that with robots,
with any kind of device that you’re operating using AI or any
other kind of, as you say, manipulator or whatever, that there sort
of has to be a fail-safe or a command override such that… You
call it a gatekeeper, I believe.
PP: No, a gatekeeper’s a product that allows that to take place.
KC: Or not to take place.
PP: Or not to take place. And yes, there’s a… Obviously it’s like
with atomic bombs and hydrogen bombs, nuclear devices, and
Cruise missiles and whatever, one thing you don’t want is your
enemy to get hold of it and use it against you. So there must-
needs be some methodology to handle that.
KC: Are you able to say that you had a hand in creating some
gatekeepers?
PP: Oh, I created gatekeepers, and whether they use it there or
not, I don’t have any idea. I just know they buy a lot of
gatekeepers, or bought a lot of gatekeepers. I know that right now
we’re in the process of negotiating a very large order for
gatekeepers – what I call gatekeepers. What they’re going to use
them for, I really can’t mention.
KC: Would you call yourself sort of an inventor? How would
you…?
PP: I have always billed myself as an Instrument Maker.
KC: Okay.
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PP: I build instruments that see things, or hear things, or measure
things that, heretofore, nobody else builds. Anybody else builds
something, I don’t ever replicate it. I don’t reinvent anybody’s
wheels, I invent my own wheels.
KC: Okay. I want to kind of go into a different area that we
haven’t really addressed at the moment, and I want to know if…
because obviously, I realize there’s a lot you’re not talking about,
and there’s some stuff that we’ve got off the record, and all of
this kind of thing. But, do you feel that you’re protected?
PP: Yes.
KC: Do you feel you’re protected on an Earthly level or on other
levels as well?
PP: Definitely on an Earthly level. I have no idea about other
levels. However, when you say feel, as compared to know, then I
will tell you that I’ve had a charmed life.
KC: Okay.
PP: I can remember one time in Vietnam, standing in a firefight...
And remember that basically only machine guns fire tracer
bullets. Every fifth round, in our machine guns at least, is a tracer
so the machine gunner can aim his weapon because they’re
jiggling and bouncing so much you can’t really use a sight well,
so you want to see where the bullets are going and place them
where you want them. So every fifth bullet goes out and you see
a little red glow where the bullet’s going.
I was in firefights where the tracers were so thick it was like you
were in the middle of a 30-foot campfire that was down to the
ashes, with a weed-eater whipping up sparks. I remember about
the third time, I looked up and said: You and me, Big Al, all the
way, [laughs] because I knew I was being kept alive. There was
no reason for me to be alive. Fifty percent of the Marine officers I
went to Vietnam with were killed while they were there. They
were there for 13 months; I was there for 23 or 24 months. But,
anyway...
KC: And to this day, you feel that you’re protected?
PP: Well, I’ve been in other places that were even scarier than
that. And I’ve done crazy things all my life, to invent things fast
rather than slow, and take it the hard way instead of the easy way,
and so forth, and somehow lived through all of it.
You know, I get the biggest kick today out of… some kids spilled
a little tiny bottle of mercury in a town nearby, and they came
and dug an Olympic swimming pool in their front yard and
hauled all the dirt off, and charged them thousands and thousands
of dollars to get rid of the mercury. Hell, I used to spill two or
three ounces of mercury a day in my lab, which was down in a
basement, and the only thing it did, probably, is drop my IQ by
30 or 40 points, but…
KC: But that didn’t really matter, considering how high it is.
PP: I used to go around with a piece of lead solder hanging out of
my mouth. I must have spent 20 years with a piece of solder
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sticking out of the corner of my mouth, getting that good lead.
All that did was drop my IQ another 10 or 20 points.
KC: [laughs]
PP: So, yeah, I’ve been charmed.
KC: Okay. Have you been threatened?
PP: Oh, yeah. I’ve been threatened a number of times, by just
about every kind of person that would want to threaten me.
BR: You can make a joke about Bastard School as well. That’s a
good one.
KC: Well, that was what I was trying to get to, but…
BR: You can talk about Bastard School.
DW: A.K.A. Terrorism School.
KC: Can we talk about Bastard School at all?
PP: Well, yeah.
KC: Okay. And what was your experience with that?
PP: Well, I call it Bastard School. When I was an officer in the
military, very obvious, I was trained in military things. I was
taught to be the biggest S.O.B. on the block. I got so good at it,
they finally turned around and had me do some other things,
because it scared them to death. Because I was a mean, green,
killing machine.
So, instead of teaching terroristic things, they had me teach anti-
terroristic things. Then they – in both cases – one, they were
afraid that the enemy would learn what I was doing that was
nasty; then they thought the enemy might learn what I was doing
to disrupt being nasty. So then they moved me on to other things.
KC: You’ve dealt with mind control in some ways, in some
fashions. You know something about the mind, clearly, and about
this information field. I’m wondering if there’s something within
the information field and/or the mind-body interaction that can be
set up to protect oneself against, let’s say, mind control devices
such as the digital television that is now projecting – you know,
able to communicate with people in their houses and so on, so
forth.
PP: Well, that’s an assumption that we’re making.
KC: Right. I’m making that assumption, not you. So I’m just
asking is there something, some technique?
PP: There are things that were designed specifically. As an
example, in the probably, ‘80s, the Russians had a thing that
was... because it sounded like a woodpecker on the shortwave
radio, was called the Woodpecker.
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They had three large locations that were transmitting probably
several million watts per location, and they were phased in a
particular area, so they could move where the peak of that
electromagnetic wave would fall. It turns out that one of the
places here they had it fall was in a town called Eugene, Oregon.
People there were getting sunburns while they slept at night, and
they were getting headaches, and they were having birth defects
and so forth. The Woodpecker had a very strong signal there and
a highly interfering signal. It was also at a psycho-active
frequency, so that it would disrupt the appropriate thinking
capabilities of the brain.
KC: This is all documented, by the way, on the Net.
PP: Oh yeah. It’s all documented on the Net. Also, a good friend
of mine was the man who discovered they were bombarding the
Moscow Embassy with microwaves that had much the same
frequency content.
So, there was a fellow that designed a little device that you could
wear under the collar, which was provided to all of our personnel
that we needed to make sure had clear thinking, that they could
carry with them and it would send a signal, a close-by signal...
remembering that electromagnetic waves decrease with the cube
of the distance. After a very short distance, the signal’s very, very
weak.
So you put a weak signal near the person, and drive their mind
into a range of brainwaves that would be benign or even,
hopefully, beneficial. They found a very simple way to find out
what was beneficial, and then a very simple way to tune the
device so that it would put those waves out. They were carried by
all types of diplomats and military personnel for years and years
and years.
KC: So, we can assume that the president and various people are
using these devices to this day?
PP: I would certainly think they would be. I know that I carry one
around.
KC: Okay, and you’re saying this person who invented it…
you’re saying you’re not the person who invented it?
PP: I didn’t say anything about it.
KC: Okay. But there’s also a technique involved, such that one
can do it without the device if one learns?
PP: Yeah, you can learn to hold your mind pretty much in
whatever mode you want.
KC: It has to do with the informational field, is that right?
PP: No, it doesn’t. It has to do with the electromagnetic field.
KC: Oh, really?
PP: Yep.
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KC: So you use your mind to affect the electromagnetic field?
PP: No. You just use your mind to generate its own
electromagnetic field at a benign frequency, or even a helpful
frequency.
KC: To counter it?
PP: To counteract it. I’ll give you an example. You get three or
four people that are very close, or two people that are even closer,
and what you’ll get is you’ll get heartbeat synchronization –
which just occurs – and then you’ll get brainwave
synchronization. Then, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending
on the situation, you get hormone production, and hormones are
very, very powerful messengers, and then you get into trouble,
[laughs] or not.
KC: It’s a form of entrainment, right?
PP: It’s a form of entrainment, and you get an entrainment. So, a
very weak signal can give you great entrainment.
Nicola Tesla made a device that used compressed air, and it was
a little weight. He could stick that on the ground outside of a
skyscraper in New York and this thing would sense ground-wave
oscillations and tune itself to them.
So, it would start out very rapidly and slow down, and then it
would find where it was affecting the environment. It would
resonate with it.
It’s like if you have a wineglass here and you play your violin up
scale, eventually you’ll find where if you stop real quick, you’ll
hear the wineglass vibrating. Then if you play that note exactly,
pretty soon the wineglass will break, because … just a little bit…
It’s like pushing a swing. If you push the swing in phase, the
swing will go way high. If you push it out of phase, it’ll stop, it
won’t go very high, it’ll go high, and then low -- a number of
things. You want to get it resonant or in phase.
So, that’s what Tesla’s device would do. It would move a weight
up and down, up and down, up and down using pneumatic
pressure and pneumatic valving, and he’d make a skyscraper just
wag like a dog’s tail... in New York.
KC: So, isn’t this like sort of the kernel behind mind control?
Getting a very slow resonance set up, and then affecting it one
way or another? No?
PP: No, no… no. Doesn’t have much to do with mind control.
But part of what you want to do, perhaps, with mind control, is
get your mind in a certain frequency. But that’s old-style mind
control. What you want to do now... Basically, if you want to
look at neuro-linguistic programming, using the principles of
neuro-linguistic programming is much more powerful than
getting a brainwave entrainment.
Brainwave entrainment will drop the IQ, it’ll drop the attention
span, it’ll change the memory, so there are a number of things
that can be done there. But, what we use now is a thing that
changes the way the brain is attached to itself, and the way the
brain hooks together, and we just change the neural pathways.
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You can cause a person to forget; you can cause a person to do
things that they have no intention of doing. You can make a
stimulus that would cause one thing, like a stimulus that would
cause me to reach out and grab some water and take a drink
because I was thirsty; you can very quickly and easily change
that stimulus to when I get thirsty, I’ll reach out and grab a glass
of water and pour it down my neck, pour it down the front of my
suit.
KC: So, what about the idea that you were telling us about the
piece of the heart? You could cut off a piece of the heart and give
it to somebody who would recognize it – a doctor – who would
recognize it as a part of the brain, or have resonance on the…
PP: It would appear to be brain tissue.
KC: And this is a medical fact, right?
PP: It’s a medical fact. There’s a very good book that anyone
who has a child that doesn’t read this book, should be jailed.
[Kerry laughs] I’m serious. It’s called The Magical Child by
Joseph Chilton Pearce, [spells] P-E-A-R-C-E, and he has follow-
up books on it. For example, The Magical Child Matures tells
you why that no center-city, fatherless child is ever going to
amount to anything, ever. They can’t because their brain doesn’t
form properly.
KC: Really?
PP: Yep.
KC: A fatherless child?
PP: Well, or motherless.
KC: An orphan.
PP: A child that’s raised outside of a normal family environment,
let’s put it that way. That’s much more accurate. It’ll tell you why
that can’t happen, why they can’t really become useful to society.
KC: Well, is this the thing you were telling us about the heart?
Being close to the heart?
PP: It’s part of it, that’s part of it; that’s just part of it. There are a
number of different factors. But one of the things that Pearce
writes about in The Magical Child is, for example, that during the
first 16 days or so after the amniotic fluid breaks, the child is
exposed to the electromagnetic field from the mother’s heart
beating, and that field is modulated by what’s in the brain cells in
the heart, which are the emotions, and those emotions are
transferred to the child.
So, they thought: Well that may be true. They went to Europe,
where a lot of women have their children raised by wet nurses
who nurse them on their breast, and they find out that the child
takes on the emotional content of the wet nurse. Or children who
are raised without a father never get the emotional – the male
emotions – from the father, as compared to the female emotions.
KC: But you’re saying it happens in the first 16 days, after that…
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PP: The greater part of it happens in the first 16 to 18 days.
KC: Incredible.
PP: It turns out, for example, the Russians did brilliant and
massive research on this. They found out that if the child is born
underwater in a fluid – remember, the child’s already in a fluid, it
isn’t going to hurt him to be underwater for a while. The child’s
born under water in the fluid about body temperature and moved
up, with contact with the mother, to the breast.
Where, if you look at how you would naturally hold your arms
and nurture a child, the heart of the mother and the heart of the
child are going to be right next to each other. The child starts
picking things up. If the child is kept in that position for the first
12 to 14 hours, the child usually develops speech by six months
of age and is able to stand on their own at six months of age.
KC: Can you talk about that Russian doctor?
PP: I… unfortunately… I could if I remembered his name. I can’t
remember his name. He was brought to the United States... I can
tell you that his techniques were used by Madonna in having her
children.
BR: We were talking about generating an IQ as high as 275 in the
children.
PP: Right. I can tell you that her children are some of the most
brilliant children on the face of the Earth because of that. I know
that she worked using those techniques for a year to a year and a
half before they were conceived, just to become ready. That
could well be privileged information, but it leaked out to me, and
I know it to be true.
DW: So you’re saying that the heart has an information field
component, which somehow entrains the formation of the
nervous system?
PP: No, I’m not saying anything about the information field. I’m
saying the heart has an electromagnetic component that is there
because the heart beats and it takes a large electrical current to
beat the heart.
DW: Okay.
PP: The body is bioelectric. Anything near a magnetic field or an
electric field that’s conductive, then, has components that come
from the things around it that are electric or magnetic or
conductive.
KC: Okay.
PP: So, you can see that stuff in the heart field. The information –
not the information field – the information transfers to the – just
like programming a ROM chip – transfers to the heart of the
child.
As an example, one of the final proofs of this is: There was a man
who absolutely hated the odor, the sight and the taste of mustard,
and got a heart transplant, and all of a sudden, couldn’t get
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enough mustard. Just by happenstance, the wife of the donor
somehow got word to him that her husband loved mustard. So he
had the heart; that came along with it.
A number of people were, in essence, SOBs, or were very tense
individuals and they got a heart from a man who was a very calm
man, and all of a sudden, their wife and their children didn’t even
know who they were. They were a completely different person.
That information was encoded in there, and when the nerves were
sewn together and some of them grew back, that information got
out of the heart. It may well be that the magnetic field of the heart
transmitted, and the brain picked it up.
I don’t know that. But, I know that we instrumented peoples’
hearts and would let them see things that would excite them. The
heart rate picks up, adrenalins produced; maybe what they see
causes anger or fear. And if you anesthetize that part of the heart,
then they don’t have those fears and those angers, and so forth.
So, that emotional information and some things like preferences
in flavor, or color are transferred and transmitted in there. So, it’s
very important to get the child up into a nurturing position.
Children who were nurtured by both mother and father have both
male and female components. Children nurtured by one or the
other have only the one component of their emotional make-up.
BR: And it’s the first 16 days that does it, is that right?
PP: Well, read the book. The greater part of it occurs in the first
16 to 18 days. And yes, maybe that’s 30%. Maybe another 10%
occurs in the next 50 days; maybe another 10% in the next 180
days.
KC: Okay, but very early on as opposed to later...
PP: Very early on. You want to get that in there very early on.
KC: Okay. I want to go in another direction.
DW: Wait a minute – is there any other tissue in the body,
besides the heart, that acts like neurological tissue?
PP: Oh, absolutely. Now, if you want, you can call the pineal part
of the brain. Even though it doesn’t do brain function, it’s part of
the brain. The pineal and pituitary are mostly a substance called
melanin. A type of melanin makes the skin pigment, but they’re a
slightly different kind of melanin.
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I, in my research, have found that the melanin in the pineal –
which, in Eastern medicine is the third eye, the seat of the third
eye – is very, very, very good at picking up informational signals
and adding a time content to them, thus subtracting a non-time
content, so it’s always been attributed to clairvoyance,
clairaudience and so forth. Those are signals that are taken out of
a signal that appears to be everywhere, every-when. It coheres
that for the person and they have certain abilities that they
wouldn’t have.
The Tibetans drill a hole in the front of the forehead with a little
rock drill, and then they poke a bamboo skewer in and
manipulate the pineal to “open” the third eye. What it does is it
gives it a hole through the Faraday Cage, speaking in science
terms, and it makes a sensitivity by making a piece of scar tissue
that opens up, or opens the third eye, or opens clairvoyance or
clairaudience, or remote viewing, or remote influencing, or a
number of different things.
KC: Isn’t it true that fluoride deadens or hardens the pineal
gland?
PP: Absolutely, but what it mostly hardens…
KC: And since we have fluoride in our water, basically you could
look at that as an Illuminati plot to deaden the intelligence and
the psychic ability of the population.
PP: What I try to do, as a scientist, is stay to scientific things. I
don’t presume about what the Illuminati want to do.
KC: Okay.
PP: But, I can tell you that the main thing that halides – which are
chlorine, fluorine, bromine – mainly what they do in the body is
congeal cholesterol into arterial plaque. I mean, that’s well
known.
KC: So, it slows down the blood flow in the arteries.
PP: Yeah, it closes down the arteries. So there are many ways to
sterilize water other than chlorine and fluorine. There are many
ways, for example, they say: Well, we use fluorine for tooth
decay.
You have a whole fleet of boats up and down the West Coast of
the United States and the East Coast of the United States that
can’t fish anymore, because we’ve killed all the fish, except there
are bottom-feeders called... I won’t tell you the name of the fish,
but they’re bottom feeders. That’s a fish that consists of... 60% of
the weight of the fish is liver, and about 60% of the liver is that
particular fish liver oil, which contains a compound called
“Activator X” by Price of the Price-Pottenger Foundation of
years-ago fame.
He found out right after World War II that one drop of that...
Well, you can take that fish oil, which is highly-fishy-tasting. Get
it cold; the waxes and false isomers will solidify. You can filter
those out and the oil left over has very little or no taste to it. That
oil, you can put in the sunlight and it won’t turn rancid for
hundreds of years. It should have been used in place of sperm
whale oil for lubricating watches, but they didn’t use it for that.
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KC: Is this cod liver oil?
PP: No, it’s not cod liver oil. It’s a different oil, but those boats
could go out and bring back boatloads of this fish. It grows from
Antarctica to [the] Arctic and everywhere in between.
KC: What does that have to do with fluoride in the water?
PP: What it has to do with is that that oil, one drop put in a slice
of bread – eaten daily – and you [will] have no caries whatsoever;
there’s no tooth decay. It eliminates tooth decay. And they did
this on thousands and hundreds of thousands of children in
Europe after World War Two.
KC: And likewise you can guard against hardening of the
arteries.
PP: Well, then you don’t get the hardening of the arteries from
the fluoride or the chloride. Now, what happened was... and I’ll
take the hit for this, let’s put it that way. It’s my conjecture that
the only reason we use chloride in the water was because the
politicians have already spent all of the Social Security money, so
you’ve got to have something there so that people die at
retirement age.
KC: [laughs]
PP: Then because of health care getting better, we had to have
something else that made it happen even faster, so we put
fluoride in the water.
KC: Wow. That's something.
PP: They could have gotten rid of tooth decay with an absolutely
benign substance that we had a whole industry here that could go
out and bring us back all we could ever use for the whole world,
very inexpensively and totally non-negatively in the body. But
we didn’t do that.
Now, the reason that that fish oil doesn’t turn rancid is,
obviously, because it’s an antioxidant. It’s the best antioxidant
known to man as far as I know. Price called it Activator X. It has
a definite chemical formula. It could definitely be put out there.
But it’d eliminate most of heart surgery; it would eliminate tooth
decay, so it’s not put out there because that isn’t efficient in our
capitalistic system.
KC: Well, you’re talking worldwide though, as well, right?
PP: Yeah, it would be worldwide. Like I say, we did it in Europe
after World War II, for years, but we took that Activator X... By
the way, there’s a small amount of it in wheat germ oil, so that
was taken from wheat germ oil. Now we found – I found – the
ratfish had this stuff in, you know, massive amounts.
BR: When you said Price, did you mean Dr. Weston Price?
PP: Weston Price, yeah. So it’s my conjecture they’re only… I
mean the only reason I could see that we would be using that is to
kill people off. Why else would you do that?
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DW: You're saying, about the pineal gland. Because I have a
whole long section in my video that everybody’s seen, most of
this audience has seen it, all about the pineal gland. So, you’re
saying that this oil, if taken, would help to decalcify the pineal
gland, or somehow increase its sensitivity?
PP: If the pineal gland is calcified by halides, yes it would.
DW: Okay.
KC: But you’re not naming the fish.
PP: I wasn’t really naming the fish.
KC: Other than the ratfish that you just talked about?
PP: No. And that’s not the…
KC: …not the main source.
PP: No, that’s what it’s called in certain areas of the world.
KC: Hmm. Okay. But I was curious. You said something about,
you know, there’s camps being built around the United States. Do
you know the purpose behind them?
PP: Yes. They’re camps to detain people.
KC: Is this something that goes on the tail-end… because I’m
looking for the agenda that goes behind the crash of the dollar,
that basically you’re saying is coming at some point in the near
future, quite possibly. Right? That’s what your sources are telling
you?
PP: I think that’s a great possibility. I’m planning for it.
KC: Okay. And then, on top of it, there are camps being built,
and you can verify that?
PP: Well, they’re giving tours of some of them, and you go on
the Internet and you’ll find out that there are a number of
locations where people say: Well, here’s a camp that’s built.
KC: Okay, and what about the role of viruses in eliminating the
population? Is there any validity to that?
PP: I have no idea. It’s not my area of expertise. I have
suppositions.
KC: Well you clearly are a healer, so have you got advice on how
people can protect themselves from viruses?
PP: Well, I think all that advice is available if you just download
it from the FDA websites or the various websites of, say, FEMA
and Homeland Security.
KC: Really?
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PP: Oh, absolutely. Wear a mask, wash your hands; they’re
absolutely correct.
KC: Okay.
PP: Another good thing to do is go someplace [where] there’s not
a lot of people. We’re sitting here filming in an area that there’s
not a lot of people. The town says Entering the Town on one side
of the sign, and on the other side of the signpost, it says Exiting
the Town, and 1st Street’s in some great big city somewhere else,
because [laughs] there’s not another street.
KC: [laughs] Okay. Well, so what is it that you think is coming in
the future in terms of... Let’s talk about outer space a little bit. Do
you think that there’s anything out there that we need to be aware
of?
PP: Well, I think there’re all kinds of things out there [that] we
need to be aware of.
KC: Okay. I mean, is the only threat... In other words, is the only
threat…
PP: Well it’s a major threat that we right now don’t have any
deterrent for.
KC: What threat?
PP: A threat from outside the planetary bounds.
KC: Well, what about the satellites that have recently been
classified, such that they won’t tell us about incoming bodies?
That’s all classified suddenly.
PP: Well, that I don’t know about. I didn’t realize that had been
done, but if it’s been done, it’s obviously been done for some
reason. And that reason may be to stop panic.
I know the government has a tremendous belief in: Whatever you
do, don’t cause panic in the people. Because, when you cause
panic in the people, then it draws attention to the lawmakers, the
Senate, the Congress, the Presidency, and the ruling party. And
they’re not looking...
You know, it’s like the old Chinese curse: May you live in
interesting times. You know, try to live in times that are not at all
interesting; they’re boring as hell -- nothing’s going to happen.
So, I think that anything that might happen that would cause
people to start thinking about: Well, why isn’t something being
done here? We’re out of money. We’ve been out of money for
years. So we don’t have money to go do anything about it, so
why let the people worry?
KC: Okay, but you were telling me something about the fact that
you think there’s really only ten months left for the, sort of,
rollout of what could be, like, reversing the agenda. I mean, I
don’t even know if you believe it’s possible to reverse the agenda
that’s being rolled out at the moment. You’ve said we’ve got
about ten months, because the Earth... we’ve polluted our own
nest.
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PP: Okay. Here’re just a few things that you can look up, and the
things I talk about are things that are openly available on the
Internet; Library of Congress or a lot of things now on YouTube;
a lot of things on, you know, Ask.com and Google.com, and so
forth. You can go in there and start making searches, and looking,
and you can find a lot of information. There’s a tremendous
amount of information.

KC: About?

PP: About the things that you just spoke about, and specifically
you can find out that – oh, it’s about a couple weeks ago, we just
had a very near flyby of a huge asteroid that would’ve caused,
depending on where it hit, thousands, if not millions of deaths on
the Earth, if it had hit the Earth. And it was a near flyby.
Now, maybe that nearness was 100,000 miles, but 100,000 miles
is sure different than the distance between here and Mars, or here
and Pluto. It came by very close. It could have been one of those
things that hit the Earth, and we have nothing to stop something
like that.
KC: Okay, you’re saying we have nothing to stop something. Is it
possible black people in black projects have something to stop
that? [Ed. note: no reference to African-Americans intended]
PP: No, I don’t believe so.
KC: Okay, and what about...
PP: If they did, I don’t believe they’ve had the money to build it.
But Project Camelot wants to thank you very much. I want to
thank you for your service to humanity. You’ve clearly been
involved in some things that are healing for the population out
there. You’re here, trying to testify to something coming that you
firmly believe that people need to be aware of, and so I want to
thank you.
PP: I appreciate your interest – anything that can get information
out to the people. And my suggestion to the people is... because
this stuff is not really hidden. It may be squirreled away
somewhere, but it’s there, and you can go out and find the
information for yourself.
My suggestion is you do it. My suggestion is that you prepare
yourself for an emergency, because no matter what you do in life,
you’re going to run into an emergency. If you prepare yourself
for it, then you stand a very good chance of surviving it, and if
you don’t prepare yourself for it, you stand a very good chance of
not surviving it.

KC: And what about positive aliens? Do you think that they KC: Okay. Thank you, and Pete Peterson, I really want to thank
might interfere with something of that nature? you again. Bill, you want to say any closing words yourself?

PP: Well, if there are such things as positive aliens, I think that,
yeah. You know, I wonder. I look at Earth, and I look at the
things we’ve done to destroy this fragile little spaceship that we
live on going through space. You know, we talk about burning,
we talk badly about all the burning of the rainforests in Brazil,
and yet most of the oxygen’s produced by plankton.
Our use of nickel-cadmium batteries, and lead batteries, and
putting them out into the environment has killed a good part of
the plankton. Cetaceans are beaching themselves so that there’s
enough food left for the others.
KC: Because they’re that wise. And self-sacrificial.
PP: Well I think that they are, and of course, you had to have
worked with them in some of the military programs to understand
how wise they are.
KC: Okay, well I’m going to have to wind this up. I would love
to talk to you all night and all day, and especially if you were
able to come out with some of the more fascinating things that
you’re involved in.
BR: I think this is the most important interview we’ve ever done.
KC: Okay, and David, you got anything you want to add to that?
DW: Well, Pete, I just want to say I appreciate your courage for
inviting us out here. I think that the data that you’ve given about
the consciousness and the information field is really instrumental
in my work, and I hope we can continue that discussion.
PP: Well, I think that we’ll probably continue a relationship for a
long time, and I’m perfectly willing to share that information. I’m
at a point in my life that the only thing I can do now to make my
life worthwhile is to share the wisdom that I’ve obtained as a
stone rolling through this interesting experience of life on Earth.
[music fades in]
PP: … been involved with trying to build flying saucers, you
usually found that with flying saucers, if you look at most of the
movies, there always seems to be a robot involved with it...

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**
293
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Miriam Delicado - A Message
Los Angeles, California, August 21, 2009
---We really need to step things up. We need to step things up as
a community. We need to step things up in unity - and make our
voices a lot stronger than they have been.
It's very clear to me how this network of people that are working
in this light in order to educate, in order to inform, and in order to
bring about change for humanity and the Earth are really
connected to one another.
This particular time that we're in is very delicate - and it is truly
the time of choice. But we're moving into a time where
difficulties are starting to arise for individuals, communities,
families. And we need to pay closer attention to what we as
individuals are doing...
Miriam Delicado
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project
Camelot. I’m here with Miriam Delicado, and we are absolutely
overjoyed to see Miriam alive and looking so well after her auto
accident. She is doing this as a follow-up interview because she
has some things to say about the times we’re in, and what people
need to be mindful of. So, go ahead, Miriam.
MIRIAM DELICADO (MD): Thank you, Kerry. I just want to
make a little note to say thank you to everyone for all of their
support since this car accident. I’m recovering very quickly as a
result of all this healing energy that’s being shared.
294
In fact, that sort of leads me in to one of the things that I wanted
to talk about today with everyone, and that is how we really need
to step things up. We need to step things up as a community. We
need to step things up in unity and make our voices a lot stronger
than they have been.
It’s very clear to me how this network of people that are working
in this light in order to educate, in order to inform and in order to
bring about change for humanity and the Earth [that] are really
connected to one another.
I’ve had so many people through this accident communicate with
me, and the way that they’re hearing about it and the channels
that they’re hearing about it is fantastic. So, it’s a really positive
part of this that I have learned very, very clearly.
And in saying that, I know that this particular time that we’re in
is very delicate, and it is truly the Time of Choice. I’ve been
talking about this Time of Choice almost since I became public.
But we are fully moving into a time where difficulties are starting
to arise for individuals, communities, families, and we need to
pay closer attention to what it is that we, as the individuals, are
doing.
Every day of your life, you have choices, and I’ve talked about
this with you in the past. But this choice has to do with how well
you are going to form the bonds between the people in your life
and people in your community. Community means this
community of Lightworkers, people that are working to educate.
What steps are you going to take in order to bring about
Disclosure of this very, very important subject matter? And not
only in the area of UFOs, and ETs, and aliens, and all of these
things, but, really, Disclosure of what is happening in our world
right now and what is going to happen.
What is it that the scientists actually know? What is it that the
philosophers have known for a very long time? And what is it that
the indigenous people have known and do know at this very time?
This point of Disclosure that I’m talking about is coming. It
needs to come from all directions, and that includes the
individual.
So, if you have a story to tell, it’s time to start sharing it, because,
if you continue to remain silent, then we as a people are not going
to be able to move forward. We are not going to be able to
overcome any great difficulties that may be challenging us in the
future.
I know -- and have known for 21 years -- that this particular time
that we’re in right now... I call it a Time of Insanity, when people
are completely losing their rational selves.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
We need to be very, very careful of whom we align ourselves
with, whom we form friendships with, whom we associate with.
Even for someone as connected and in sync as I am, I have still
had situations in the past year and the last six months where I’ve
allowed people to come into my life who were very destructive
and harmful.
So this is something that was shared with me a very long time
ago by the Tall Blondes. They have restated to me numerous
times in the past year to be very aware of my surroundings, aware
of whom I am associating with, and that I needed to not be
distracted.
These people are coming into our lives to distract us from
speaking, from telling our stories, from being strong in our
communities, from being the change – and that means anything
from writing your Congressman to say, I want Disclosure, to
creating a community garden and collecting heritage seeds –
which, by the way, is going to become more and more and more
difficult.
I have continually talked to people about collecting their heritage
and heirloom seeds. I’m telling you that, if you don’t have your
seeds today, it is almost too late, because new laws are being
formed all over the planet – and that includes all over in North
America – where legislation is being brought in for organic
farming to be almost, you know, illegal; collecting of seeds,
illegal. And maybe the next step is the owning of heritage seeds.
So, if we as a community do not take a stand as one voice and
one people for one Earth, we may as well just sit back, relax, and
wait for the end. No longer can anyone turn around and say that
they can be complacent about anything. And I mean anything
that’s going on right now.
Different organizations, different groups around the world know
what’s coming. They’re making preparations for it. Pay attention.
Open your eyes. Look at the news. Is it telling you anything? No.
It’s talking about gossip. Dig deeper and look at what it is that’s
happening with seed banks around the world, with where the
money’s flowing, who’s in control of our finances and how that
money is being distributed.
And let’s think about this: How much money has gone missing
with governments, not only in North America, South America, but
around the globe? Where is that money being funneled into?
Pay attention. Pay attention to these things, because they’re going
to be keys to be able to lead you to some very, very serious
answers.
Now, I strongly suggest you have your seeds [and] that you have
your preparations; that you connect with those that you need to
connect with because, if something horrible does happen in your
community or in your area, you will be fine. You can have peace
in your heart, knowing that you have already made steps to
communicate and to open your heart to your neighbor.
Really, this isn’t about digging bunkers and, you know, going
and hiding from the world. This is really about opening yourself
up to the world and to what it is that’s coming.
295
So this is a really strong message, to not be blindsided by all of
these distractions that are around us right now.
This time of... I call it the Time of Insanity hitting us and what
we’re moving through... people, rational people, are becoming
irrational. Spiritual people are becoming vicious and confused
and vindictive.
And on the flip side, people that were vindictive and this type of
focus in their lives of just materialism are completely flipping
and becoming spiritual. So pay attention to who you’re
associating with.
If you have an open heart, it’s one of the ways of being able to
walk through this very difficult time. If you’re completely
confused about the people around you, stop and meditate. It’s
going to be able to bring your body, your mind, and your spirit
back into alignment of who you are and what your intended
purpose is here on Earth at this time.
Many of the people that come to Project Camelot in particular are
very focused on details, scientific details and this type of thing.
It’s great to have that, but at the very, very end of all of this
science is something that the indigenous people themselves
understand – and that is energy and how it actually works.
So, always remember to remain in your heart through this
process; because, if you can’t remain in your heart, then no
matter how much knowledge and information you have, it’s not
going to do anything for you.
By remaining in your heart, you’re going to be connected to the
right people, you’re going to make the right decisions and
choices, and you’re most importantly going to bring about change
quickly and rapidly.
If this community made the choice of any one particular matter,
and that is, for example, Disclosure, and every single person on
Project Camelot that ever entered into any one of those videos –
whether it be on the website, on YouTube, on different websites
– and said: Okay, I’m going to take 20 minutes of my day and
write a very quick letter to my Congressman asking him or her to
bring about Disclosure, the power of that one single step would
be extraordinary.
Now, there’re a lot of issues that have been coming up for a
number of people over the course of the last year. One of the big
questions that people keep asking me about personally is swine
flu, and vaccines, and plagues, and what it is that’s coming.
Listen, the bottom line is that it is eventual -- it is not a question
of if -- it is a question of when these things will take place. Is it
going to take place in the next day? I don’t know. In the next
year? I don’t know.
But I can tell you this, that no matter what we choose to do, we
must remember that one of the greatest powers that we have is to
remain in balance with Nature and Mother Earth.
It is not going to be through the sciences that we find the cure for
an illness that was derived from Nature. It is within ourselves that
we are going to be able to do that.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
If someone walked up to you and they walked out of a factory
that’s had poison, and, you know, you saw all the signs, and
there’s poison symbols everywhere, and they walk in with their
plastic suits and they walk back out, and they give you an apple,
and they hold it up to you, and you say: Great! I’m hungry. Can I
have that? Are you really going to eat that apple that walked out
of a building that is creating poison?
It looks good and they’re going to tell you it’s good, but it’s up to
you to decide whether or not it’s actually going to be right for
you or not. No one’s going to give you the answer. You need to
go inside.
If you are meant to be here for the entire path of your life, then,
you know, until you’re old and you’re fortunate enough to have
those gray hairs move in, then that’s great. And if you’re not, you
could walk out of the house and get hit by a car like I did a
couple weeks ago. We never know truly what’s going to happen
in our lives, no matter how connected you are.
So, what you need to do is remain in your heart, and you need to
remain clear in that and know that the community that you’re in,
this community in particular, is of Lightworkers, of scientists, of
philosophers, of seers, all of these different areas... of artists. This
community cares.
So I’m saying, take some action, because the next year that I’m
telling you about is going to get worse. It’s going to get more
difficult. There’s going to be more financial problems. There’s
going to be more difficulty for you to feed your families, for you
to buy new shoes for your children. And it’s okay, because you
know what? We’re all going through that.
The way that we’re going to be able to get through is to
communicate and have community with one another. And to
work within those structures that are not working for us – not to
tear them down and crush them, throw them away -- but to work
with what we currently have and just make our voices heard.
All we need to do is make our voices heard. Write a letter, ask for
Disclosure, start asking questions, dig deeper, and start making
some action.
KC: Okay. I want to go to a different area, Miriam, and that was
very well said, by the way. I want to find out whether or not you
want to make any kind of statement about the need for
indigenous people to come forward at this time, because this is a
great opportunity and you don’t know who might be watching.
MD: Thank you. Kerry, you know, we’ve had numerous
conversations since we’ve met and everyone out there knows that
I have a very close connection to indigenous people. The
connection that I have is from my heart; it’s from my mind; it’s
actually from my soul.
It is critical, it is critical that the indigenous cultures around the
world come together.
I have a fear almost, and I don’t say that often, but I do; I have
almost a shaking feeling with this that is of great concern,
because they’re running around and I see it happening, they’re
trying to make those connections, and bridge the gaps and bring
296
the voice, but there are so many people who are white people
getting in the way of that voice coming together.
Even within indigenous communities and indigenous cultures,
there is a lot of ego involved. A lot of these cultures are talking
about the feminine being brought forward, and yet this is
something that still has not been fully accepted by them,
themselves, even though they’re talking about it.
We’re running out of time on this Earth. We’re running out of
this Time of Choice. We’re still in it, and there is still hope, but
the indigenous cultures need to come together in the public eye,
unified. This is not going to happen from white people stepping
forward and planning and organizing. This is from the indigenous
cultures themselves.
We are going to be there to assist them in this change, to work
together, to bridge that gap between the balance of nature and
what it is that we have here in the structured world, what we’ve
built.
We need to come together. That means that on both sides we
need to set certain things aside and say that we no longer have the
need for this, and that these things do not have to completely
change and flip. You know, not everyone on Earth needs to go
and live in the jungle, and not everyone in the jungle needs to
come out here and live in this world.
But what is it that both parties could learn from one another?
That’s where the open heart needs to come in, even within the
indigenous cultures themselves.
Every single day of my life in the past year and a half, almost two
years, has been focused on trying to bring that energy – these
people coming together. But, unfortunately, I’ve experienced
some very, very, very dark, and I mean dark, energies that have
been coming forward through people to stop this process from
happening.
And one of the things that I can say about the indigenous world is
that I’m not easily fooled. So, when I hear someone say a word
that says heart, I expect to feel it in mine; and, if I don’t feel it in
mine, then I’m not listening to what they’re saying, because they
are speaking with a tongue that is a lie.
So, the indigenous cultures need to come together, and they need
to do it quickly, because the situation on this Earth with disease,
with poverty, with starvation, with natural disasters, with political
structures, with economic structures -- all these things are being
broken down. They’re crumbling, because they’re not working.
So, if we don’t step forward as the one voice, for one people, for
one world, we’re not going to have one Earth left – not with
human beings on it.
This isn’t about saving humanity. It’s not even about saving the
Earth. It’s really about saving ourselves and making the choice as
far as what path we want to take.
So, if anyone wants to begin building that bridge in order to
create that with the indigenous world, I’m here, and I have
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
friends. I have contacts in different parts of the world who are
also preparing to make that happen.
KC: Yes, and Camelot is also here with our cameras, and with
our team that has joined us as of late, and we will go anywhere to
film any kinds of messages that those people want to put out
there.
We’re standing right behind you in thinking that this is the time
when we, outside, in the outside world, would love to hear from
the indigenous people who have been sort of the guardians of the
Earth for all these years, for all the, you know, millions of years
that humanity has been occupying this lovely planet. And the
time is now, and so I second that.
MD: Well, what I would love to see happen, Kerry, is some of
these cultures that are trying to get their messages out to the
world, to really understand that they need to stop being distracted
themselves.
Instead of relying on one individual or one group, they really
need to open the doorway to any and all of them; instead of
having people come and just happen upon them, to just really
say: Okay, I’m here now. Come to me. I’m ready to speak. I’m
ready to share.
It doesn’t do anything, not until we begin to share that. And how
do you share it? You can only share it through your heart. You
can only share it when you become vocal and you begin to use
those two things in sync with one another to be able to bring
about that change.
We have to start looking at the basics. We have to be able to start
looking at our families, our communities, our infrastructure, our
food, our environment. Basics. Look at them. What can you do,
and take action. There is absolutely no more time to be sitting on
the couch. You have to get up.
So, I want to just say, let’s move things forward and let’s get to
work. And if there’re any of you out there who are able to assist
in any way to bring these indigenous cultures together, I’m here.
Project Camelot’s here. There’re a lot of other people that are
standing with us.
Let’s start making this happen, so that we can create what I’ve
talked about from the beginning, which is a world gathering of
humanity.
KC: Thank you, Miriam. That’s a lovely message. Why don’t
you give your website, so that people can contact you and an
email address? And we’ll also print it on the screen.

The indigenous world has knowledge that the scientific world is
just beginning to understand. Great. I’ve had understandings of
the universe and how it works and mathematics, and
astrophysics, and so forth, for years.
MD: My website address is www.alienbluestar.com and you can
email me at miriam@alienbluestar.com and I’m looking forward
to hearing from all of you.
KC: Thank you very much.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

297
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dr. Leonard Horowitz - Emerging Viruses
Laguna Beach, California, June, 2009
A short video interview done by Kerry Cassidy with Dr Len
Horowitz - when he spoke with Dr Masaru Emoto at the Live
H2O event at Laguna Beach on 18 June 2009.
Here Len speaks fluently, and with passion, about viruses, health,
water, sovereignty, alternative healing, and his own Christian
Faith.
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy. A few months
ago, I had the good fortune to interview Dr. Leonard Horowitz.
He’s a well known author and an expert on emerging diseases.
He wrote a book that’s, I think, most widely known, Emerging
Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola.
Recently he talked to me for a short while about water and about
the whole Live H2O effort, and also about the health field and a
myriad of other topics, in a very short span of time. I think that
you will enjoy hearing from him here.
LEONARD HOROWITZ (LH): Hi, my name is Dr. Leonard
Horowitz, and I have produced about 16 books. I have three
national best sellers. I deal with subjects that are the worst of the
worst news on the planet and also the best of the best news.
So if you really want to find out the sad reality regarding the
genocide that’s ongoing under the guise of public health and
national security – the military/ medical/ petrochemical/
pharmaceutical cartel and the industrialists that actually make
money off of humanity’s suffering, and control minds as well as
populations, as well as population reduction...
298
The works that I’ve published include Death in the Air:
Globalism, Terrorism and Toxic Warfare that came out three
months before September 11th.
The book -- Emerging Viruses, AIDS, and Ebola: Nature,
Accident or Intentional? -- that Reverend Jeremiah Wright
mentioned on national television in the heat of the Barack Obama
campaign concerning the origin of AIDS, and the Anglo-
American thesis on how this is a genocidal weapon. It’s the
documentations that I published – literally US government
documents, contracts – in that book that enabled him and
empowered him to make those claims.
So, I’ve done a number of works in the field of public health,
overlapping national security, Central Intelligence Agency,
British Secret Service.
Currently, if you go to www.fluscam.com , you’ll see that I’ve
uncovered the underlying truth concerning the current flu
pandemic and its implications, and indicting Baxter Corporation,
as well as the company named Novovax -- who in collaboration
with British officials at the UK, as well as World Health
Organizations think-tanks concerning viruses and vaccines for
influenza, Dr. Robertson, etc -- these people are implicated in
actually creating, loosing the current flu that’s circulating. So
that’s the bad news.
The great news is that I’m here in Laguna Beach today to honor
Dr. Masaru Emoto, who’s a friend and a colleague, who is my
hero and a lot of peoples’ hero, for creating this whole
understanding of water.
Live H2O: Concert for the Living Water is about celebrating all
the knowledge, the truths that have been suppressed about water
and water science that literally have the capacity to free humanity
completely from all the urgencies, including the petrochemical
pollution, the degradation of the environment. We can turn to
hydrogen and hydrogen from water for hydrogen fuel to run
automobiles.
We can turn to a product called OxySilver or silver hydrosols in
general for literally presenting a nano-particle-sized silver,
bonded to water, that’s less than five parts per million, that can
eliminate all infectious diseases from planet Earth and restore
some semblance of sanity to what is currently the medical
hypocrisy of intoxicating humanity with foreign RNA and DNA
from bacteria, viruses, fungus, yeast, chicken embryo, bovine
fetal serum, monkey kidney tissues, in these things called
vaccinations.
Antibiotics – we can completely do away with antibiotics.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
It’s interesting that we’re conducting war against everything:
war, anti-biosis, anti-biology, war against AIDS, war against
cancer, war against all of these things.
Well, gee whiz, why don’t we do something pro? -- proactively,
preventatively and positively, probiotically? And we can do that
with the understanding that we’re advancing in water and water
science.
So it turns out that all of the greatest truths, including what your
DNA actually does that’s based on water, is about to be revealed
with the Concert for the Living Water.
So my work also deals with the best of the best there is in solving
the planet’s worst problems, and it’s an honor and a privilege for
me to join you today.
KC: [laughs] Okay, that’s a great introduction, very
comprehensive. What do you think about how the global Powers
That Be are going to deal with your solutions?
LH: Well, the Powers That Be are obviously not supportive to
coming out with the truths that can emancipate humanity
completely, so they have done a lot of suppression.
The mainstream, mass-mind-control-enslaving-media, is
essentially largely to blame, because we’re supposed to have
freedom of the press and now we have corporate control –
multinational corporate-controlled media.
And we’re supposed to have, in fact, in the United States, a
balance of powers that is largely based on freedom of the press.
But, unfortunately, Associated Press and a couple of other news
services provide virtually 98% of the news.
If they don’t want to cover something -- such as what the drug
industrialists and the petrochemical polluters don’t want to have
revealed, such as alternatives, green technologies – well, it gets
suppressed. So it’s not likely that we’re going to receive a lot of
support from that domain.
But, the great news is that it’s a grass-roots initiative, that there’s
a decentralization of power that’s happened with Live H2O:
Concert for the Living Water.
We have over 70 venues internationally and it’s still growing
daily. All of those are organized and run, and all the volunteers,
serving independent organizations that are not doing this for the
money. They’re doing this because there’s an urgency of need at
this time in history.
KC: So this is a one-weekend event, though, is it not?
LH: This is a one-weekend event. Live H2O is June 19th to the
21st, 2009. It’s an historic event. It is the most spiritually
uplifting and important concert in Earth’s history.
It has profound implications, not just this weekend, however. It
has ongoing implications insofar as: Where are we going as a
civilization? Where are we going as intelligent people?
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You know, we’ve had a lot of multi-national corporation officials
choose the path that we’ve followed so far... and basically we
haven’t gotten too advanced.
We call ourselves an “advanced civilization,” but in fact... I
came back from New York last weekend. On the front page of
the New Yorker Magazine was, literally, a feature story, entitled
Extinction of the Human Race.
And so, we’re really looking at a time in history where we’ve got
to make a choice and the choice has never been greater, clearer;
and, in fact, either graver or more uplifting.
That choice is simply: Are we going to tell the truth? Are we
going to tell the ways, and look at the practical applications, of
what’s called hydrosonics?
Hydo – water; sonics -- is sound frequency vibration. That’s the
core creative technology. If we want to recreate ourselves and
recreate this planet, then what we’ve got to look at are those
truths.
KC: Are you working with Dr. Emoto on this technology?
LH: Yes. Dr. Emoto and I are long-term friends. In fact, I had the
privilege, actually, down here in Orange County, to have opened
for Dr. Emoto on the first lecture that he ever gave in the United
States. On his first night in the United States, with his first book
in the United States, I actually got the first autographed copy of
that book. I showed it to Dr. Emoto some years later and he was
surprised to actually see it.
But I have a water science mentor that was the same water
science mentor that Dr. Masaru Emoto had, Dr. Lee Lorenzen.
He had a place in Orange County, and he developed the first
structured water. So we really go way back.
Now it’s a privilege, it’s an honor for me to have witnessed Dr.
Emoto’s great success all over the world, but also to have been a
small part in that success.
He calls me his chief scientific validator and chief scientist
involved in really looking at everything that he’s doing and how
it relates to the most advanced fields of genetics, electro-genetics,
water science, frequency resonance, bioenergetics; looking at the
human body – body water that is – as well as all the water, as a
liquid-crystal, super-conductor. It’s virtually the creative juice of
the universe.
What Dr. Emoto’s fantastic contribution is, that -- we all are just
so thrilled to have him have made -- is that this water, this
incredible creative juice, has this intelligence. It’s literally
Divine.
It’s that way in the Bible. It’s talked about in the Book of
Genesis. Genesis 1-1, 1-2 tells you in the beginning there was the
water, even before the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Bible.
Even before the Word was spoken, Let there be light, there was
the water.
So, water’s really part of the triune God in theology, in Judeo-
Christian and Muslim theology.
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It’s revered by all of the cultures, whether it’s Buddhism or
Indian Hindu. It’s always consistent, every culture, Hawaiian
Kahunas, everyone, the Aboriginal people of Australia. They’re
all celebrating with us this Live H2O weekend, because they all
understand water is literally part of this Divine substance, this
sustaining creative juice.
Dr. Emoto’s incredible work tells us that it’s not only responsive
to our prayers – just like angels, just like the Creator – but also
this concept that it has a shifting of its actual structure, which
means it’s not only intelligent, but it changes its structure in such
a way as to, incredibly, deliver personal messages to us –
messages that are very, very important, that speak to love, that
speak to planetary sustenance, that speak to our own spiritual
evolution and well-being as a civilization.
So, all of these wonderful contributions Dr. Emoto has made,
we’re here tonight in Laguna Beach, California, to celebrate.
KC: Okay. Well, do you consider yourself a healer?
LH: This question is: Do I consider myself a healer? I would say
that pretty much all of us are really healers when it gets right
down to it, you know.
This concept, for example, of the living water being in each of us,
and this concept that Jesus best demonstrated... how he healed
people miraculously was through his faith and trust. Whenever he
performed these miraculous healings, he would always tell
everybody: It’s by your faith and trust that you’re healed.
So faith and trust and prayer – the spoken word, which is very
powerful, the creative technology – and this heartfelt, loving
intention to produce a blessing is not unique to Jesus. It’s not
unique to Len Horowitz. It’s not unique to Dr. Masaru Emoto. In
fact, it’s in every single one of you, and it’s really a basic fact.
So, I think we are all natural healers.
I think right now we’re engaged in a time of revealing that great
truth, and then getting beyond the mind control, the dumbing
down of the population to make us believe that we’ve got to pop
magic pills to cure every ill. How totally absurd, how we think
that we’ve got to get vaccinated in order to have immuno-
capacity to resist infectious diseases! That’s insane.
In fact, all the science is actually showing that the most deadly of
all of the diseases is iatrogenesis. It’s physician-induced illnesses
brought on by faith and trust in what I call Medical Deities... you
know: MDs. It’s paganism. The Bible talks about that.
And basically the Bible stories are full of times when pagans got
Judgment Day coming. You know, they got what they sowed: As
you sow, so shall you reap. So where you place your faith and
trust is extremely important in this age.
KC: So are you saying that you believe in Judgment Day?
LH: I believe that Judgment Day is happening every day. As a
matter of fact, right now, we know when we look at Dr. Emoto’s
work in water and water science, that what this incredibly
miraculous, vibrating liquid-crystal, super-conductor really is...
it’s a judgment apparatus. Judgment is like karma. It’s the
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concept of What goes around comes around. As you sow, so shall
you reap.
Well, if you sow, for example, negativity... if you sow anger and
resentment, hostility, even sadness and depressed articulations
and feelings through your words, that sound resonance energy
actually impacts every single water molecule in your body –
instantly. So, judgment is instantaneous.
All of this is incredibly just basic understanding from the
magnificent work that Dr. Emoto has done to reveal the
consciousness in water, the way that water responds to prayer,
that water responds to words such as I love you or I hate you, or it
responds to beautiful music heartfeltly rendered in a way for
healing – versus some completely dissonant energy vibration
from the most unconscious types of music that literally break the
structures of water, break the sacred geometry – that has now
been shown to be produced in response to heartfelt, loving
intention and blessedness.
KC: Okay. I know you’re a doctor by profession. Right?
LH: Yes. I have three Doctorates, actually. I have a Doctorate in
Medical Dentistry from Tufts University; I taught on the faculties
of Tufts. At Harvard University, I spoke on Behavioral Science
issues and microanatomy – it’s called histology – and I taught
dental as well as medical students. I have a Masters in Public
Health from Harvard.
My area of special expertise, beyond emerging diseases, is in
Behavioral Science, looking at the way the mainstream media
manipulates peoples’ minds to literally dumb us down and
engage us into these deceptions that end up costing our lives,
really.
KC: So, you’re saying you specialized in media as a part of
Behavioral Science? Because that’s not actually what Behavioral
Science is involved with.
LH: That’s right. I specialize mostly in Behavioral Science
media, health education, health promotion.
KC: I see.
LH: Yes.
KC: So, did you go through sort of a transition, or a trajectory, in
your own journey, your own personal journey that sort of
changed the way you approached the medical field?
LH: Oh, I did! I went through my own personal journey that was
pretty intense, having lost a mother to a vaccination, and,
ultimately, didn’t even know it when it was happening. I had to
find out later that... it was just hideous.
The flu vaccines that they’re even pumping out right now and
telling us they’re so necessary... in fact, the urgency right now is
people need to wake up immediately, because the Barack Obama
administration is about to legislate every American getting three
flu shots this coming fall, 2009. So we’d better wake up.
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I woke up too late. It cost my mother her life. And, in fact, tens of
thousands of Americans, who received the 1976 Swine Flu
vaccine, ended up with Guillain-Barre, an auto-immune disease --
that was devastating.
And so, this is what my mother received, and at the time, I didn’t
even know. In fact, at the time that she was dying, I was engaged
in educating. As a public health professional, the standard
education that we all received in dental, medical, public health
education is that vaccines are safe and effective.
I was actually teaching that, and so, I’m likely responsible for
thousands of nurses and physicians and dentists and hygienists, to
actually have them develop auto-immune diseases from
inoculations of the Hepatitis B vaccine that I heavily promoted,
as literally somebody who’d been brainwashed.
KC: Hmm. Well, I understand that you actually took your
daughter out of school recently to avoid a vaccination. Isn’t that
right?
LH: Actually, specifically, it was the Tuberculosis Skin Test. I
took my children out of school in Hawaii, and we’re not even
living in Hawaii anymore.
We’re boycotting living in Hawaii, because it is a completely
barbaric and fascist state over there, whereby they literally do not
even allow anyone, any child, even in private schools, to enter
school without a Tuberculosis Skin Test – which is virtually the
same as vaccination. It’s the same in terms of injecting into your
bloodstream foreign proteins and foreign DNA and RNA -- in
this case, the Tuberculosis bacillus fragments.
And so this wheal reaction that they call a positive test actually is
a systemic reaction. They hide that fact, and so I did not want to
give my children anything that would violate the sanctity of their
holy spiritual temples. I honor my children.
They’re very healthy without ever having been vaccinated against
anything. We practice natural medicine. We’re very conscious
about what we eat, what we drink, and how we live our lives,
ideally minimizing stress.
And so what we’ve chosen to do is pull our children out of this,
unfortunately, indoctrination system that has been going under
the guise of education.
KC: Are you going to be staying in the United States with Codex
coming down?
LH: I think Codex Alimentarius legislation is going to impact
everybody worldwide. The concept is – quote, unquote –
“harmonization” for the entire planet under the guise of “health
and safety.”
It’s actually a mechanism to regulate access to all botanicals,
natural healing remedies, the homeopathics, vitamins, minerals,
supplements -- everything having to do with natural health and
healing.
It’s part of this global industrial manipulation of the population
and the decimation of our rights, our freedoms. One of those
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freedoms is the right to God’s bounty and nature’s bounty, and
that...
You know, the Bible is full of revelations and verses that talk
about how the healing of the nations shall come by the leaves and
the trees that line the banks of the water, the living water, which
are our bloodstreams. So, all around us, we have all of these
beautiful, natural healing remedies.
I work as an ambassador for the World Organization of Natural
Medicine. And the project that is really dear to my heart; and [in]
many of my colleagues’ hearts, is the Clinics for Humanity
project, where all over the world, we are establishing natural
healing clinics and inviting residents to come and learn natural
healing and serve in these places voluntarily.
At the end of six years, after studying in rigorous curriculums
that are on the Internet right now, we can certify their Natural
Medicine Degree and get them to the place where they can then
become Board-Certified, then licensed in a certain state, and then
practice Natural Medicine as Naturopathic Physicians.
So, this is really important. If we don’t do it now, this concept of
natural healing and the wisdom of the elders and the natural
methods of the holy medicine men and women... that will be
gone forever. It’s vitally important for our children and our
children’s children to sustain this brilliant wisdom.
KC: Okay. But how is Codex going to affect that?
LH: Codex Alimentarius legislation is intending to eliminate your
access to all of the natural medicinals, as I mentioned, the
homeopathics, the vitamins, the minerals, the supplements.
KC: How will it affect the people graduating from your program
that you’re talking about? Will they be able to practice?
LH: Oh, I see. I get your question. Well, in terms of the people
that I am working with who are advancing the certification
program for World Organization of Natural Medicine, the
concept is that these people are going to be operating as
Sovereigns.
For example, they are going to be entitled to practice medicine
outside the typical statutory laws, that really violate God’s laws,
and so it requires a whole different level of jurisdiction, of
legislative recognition.
That’s what we’re working on, on various levels, various
governments. Our latest “wins” have been in the country of
Lebanon and many of the...
Sadly – I speak as a Christian Jew and an American – sadly, I
have to tell you that the most advanced countries in the world are
those Muslim nations, those Arabic nations, who understand that
what we’re looking at here is an Anglo-American genocidal
operation that Codex Alimentarius is actually advancing.
It’s a regulation of our basic fundamental understanding of
health, of Divinity, how it can impact humanity, natural ways of
remedying all of the urgencies.
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You know, this is really what we’ve got to support, so that’s one
of the things that we’re doing with Live H2O: Concert for the
Living Water on behalf of our co-sponsor, World Organization
for Natural Medicine, to advance this understanding and
gratitude, literally for all of the people in the Muslim world who
understand that this is, indeed, a holy war.
It’s a holy war when you think of the fact that we are spiritual
beings and that to keep from us these natural remedies that the
Creator had meant to give us, so that we can sustain ourselves –
that is a spiritual attack. And that’s what Codex Alimentarius
legislation is.
That’s what this whole flu vaccination campaign really is about.
It’s really about intoxicating, with the number one foremost
genocidal weapon – vaccination – the entire global population.
And there are a lot of people that are not going to go along with
it.
KC: Okay. So what is your solution? You said something about
becoming Sovereign on the part of the natural practitioners.
You’re talking about seceding from actual US citizenship and
doing all of that?
LH: Yes. I have colleagues... I’m not an expert in that field, and I
would highly urge everybody to study with some good experts in
this field.
Once you, do your eyes open. You begin to realize: Gee whiz,
you know, how did I get my Birth Certificate? What does my
Birth Certificate really mean? What does my Social Security
number really mean?
What is it connected to, financially, in the global unity core, in
the global exchange system, the Uniform Commercial Code, and
the systems of “laws” that really govern how money operates,
and how we operate in a jurisdiction of commercial law?
So these are very important areas of study. You know, rather than
science and mathematics, and even reading, writing, and
arithmetic in grade school, we really should be taught, number
one, fundamentally who we are as human beings. What is our
connection to the living God? You know, how does God live in us
and how does God operate in us?
And, you know, what is this whole field of metaphysics all
about? How come some people are completely psychic? How did
they get that way? What facilitates that?
How can Leonardo da Vinci, his complete creative genius...?
I am the author of the book, Love: The Real da Vinci Code,
where I’ve decrypted the real da Vinci code in his famous
drawing, the Vitruvian Woman. There’s a woman behind the man
in that famous drawing with four arms, four legs, and a head.
And that is really who we are. We’re engaged in a cosmic
balance that is mathematically, musically, harmonically,
administered, and that is all happening because of water and
sound – frequency vibration – which is mathematics.
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That’s vitally important knowledge, you know, not just The truth
that shall set us free, but the greatest truths, including Know
Thyself.
What are the greatest truths about you? And how do you then
take those magnificent truths, those sacred truths and wisdom,
and apply it in your daily lives?
That’s a book that we should be getting when we become parents,
in how to raise, rear, a child and be response-able, truly
responsibility for another human being. We should have a manual
on how to take care of that human being and a definition of what
that human being really is all about.
And so that’s what we’re engaged in right now. It’s a whole
transcendence. It’s a whole paradigm shift. It’s a whole spiritual
renaissance. It’s a celebration, ultimately, of humanity’s finest
revelations.
KC: But what about the political situation? In other words, if
your solution is Sovereignty, do you think that the government is
actually going to go along with that?
LH: Of course not. If the solution is Sovereignty, the
governments and the drug industrialists – what I call the military/
medical/ petrochemical/ pharmaceutical cartel – are not going to
go along with that, because everything that they’re doing is
engaged in just the opposite: a complete enslavement.
From birth to grave, you’re regulated, intoxicated, manipulated,
mass mind-controlled. And that is ultimately something that is
one of the truths that shall set us free – just the recognition of
that.
You know, before you can practice medicine, you’ve got to
understand diagnosis. The word itself says it all. Diagnosis: to
know through, the seeing-through to the root cause. That’s what
the word means.
So in order for us to treat ourselves and treat our social
pathology, we’ve got to really see through to the root cause of it
all.
KC: Right.
LH: And really there’re some fabulous simple truths now that are
extremely uplifting that Live H2O: Concert for the Living Water
and everything that’s written on the concert website --
http://www.liveh2o.org/ -- is going to be revealing, and people
are celebrating internationally the revelations.
KC: So, you’re interested in changing consciousness, obviously,
in part through this event that you’re taking part in; but, what I’m
wondering is, what is your solution for people that are facing this
Codex coming down sometime, I believe, in January of 2010?
LH: Well, quite frankly, if you ask me what my solution is to
Codex Alimentarius and this global manipulation of the
population, the answer is we don’t have an answer. The Creator
has an answer. I believe I have some awareness of what the
Creator has in store for humanity. It would probably take us
another half an hour for me to lay it out for you.
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But the reality is, I don’t think most people... clearly most people
are not prepared to even hear the answer. Most people think that
the answer is silly or foolish conspiracy nonsense.
And so I can see, as anybody whose eyes are open to the current
reality that the future does not bode well for most people on this
planet.
The answer then lies not so much in the physical reality that’s
going on here, but literally in the transcendence of that, and the
purification and the spiritual uplifting – virtually the
emancipation of the burdened spirit that we all now have, coming
out of this cult-ture, this American medical or global
manipulative cult-ture, which we’ve been raised in and we’ve
established the beliefs and the behaviors consistent with that
manipulation and indoctrination.
Come out of her, my people, lest ye be infected by her plagues.
That’s virtually a quote from Jesus.
So, the reality is that you’ve got to come out of it completely, and
there are ways -- intelligently, reasonably, responsibly -- to come
out of this hypocrisy. One of those ways is not going to get
vaccinated. And it’s not going to Medical Deities to solve every
flu, or every cancer that you’ve got going on. There’s a whole
other realm!
Again, when we talk about faith, simple faith, and spirituality,
and metaphysical dynamics, and how all of metaphysics can now
be beautifully explained through mathematics, as well as this
hydrosonics – sound vibration on water – that’s what we’re
celebrating this weekend.
KC: Okay. And, you know, it sounds like you’re aware of the ET
visitation on the planet. You’re not actually talking about that at
the moment, but, certainly, there is an ET element that’s been
involved in what’s going down here on the planet. Are you part
of, sort of, the philosophy that believes that we are going to be
moving into the fourth dimension?
LH: Oh that’s a beautiful question. With regard to my view of
extraterrestrial existence, and whether currently we’re engaged in
this process, in a spiritual renaissance sense, of moving into
another dimension: absolutely. I absolutely, firmly believe that in
my heart, and you’re listening to me say that after years of me
being really unsure.
You know, I’ve been criticized and somewhat ostracized by the
UFO community, because part of my lecture has been saying,
you know, as a behavioral science expert, I can tell you that what
we’re witnessing on this planet is not normal human behavior.
We’re really not witnessing genocide as anything that represents
love and empathy and compassion, as we have, most of us, in our
hearts,
So, there’s a distinct difference. Somehow, a human being and
another entity are at vast ends of a spectrum of how to care for
each other, or collaborate.
And, you know, the fact is that, because I’ve been looking at it
more from a behavioral scientist’s perspective and then have had
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to come to the conclusion that it’s not normal human behavior;
subsequent to that I’ve now realized, through personal revelations
and experiences, that we’re dealing with the spiritual realm here.
We’re really dealing with the realm of the angels, and now I’ve
experienced a lot of that, and so I’ve matured a bit. I now can tell
you that it is exactly as Jesus said: It is not against flesh and
blood with whom we do battle. There are battles going on.
And then, you know, I also go back into my love for the Bible
and the Old Testament to the Nephilim, the fallen angels; and the
Elohim, the multiple gods, when the Creator said to his friends,
he says: Hey guys, let us make man in our image. That’s in the
Torah.
So, basically, it obviously recognizes that there are other lesser
Gods; there are spiritual entities. The Nephilim, Genesis tells us,
outlive the flood. Those are the fallen angels, the Herculeans, the
super-men and so…
KC: Do you believe that they are going to return soon?
LH: Do I believe that the…
KC: Nephilim.
LH: Well, I don’t have any opinion on whether or not the
Nephilim are going to return soon.
I think that a lot of what I’m witnessing in government
malfeasance, official malfeasance, and the manipulation at the
highest levels of government... it’s obvious that those people are
very dark. They’ve got a lot of dark energy. And so, are these
super-men? Are they aliens? You know, it’s really kind of like an
academic question.
The more important question is: What are we going to do about it
right now to facilitate this extremely beautiful and blessed
expansion of our own love, our own hearts, our own
transcendence of the physical manipulations?
You know, it’s a complete miracle and, you know, grace of God
that we’re still alive here. We’ve been so polluted – drinking
fluoride in the water, chlorine in the water, the food is
contaminated, the pesticides in the foods and the water supplies,
the hormones that have been injected into the chickens and into
the beef -- all of these ways that we’ve been intoxicated -- the air
that we’re breathing, chemtrail spray, pesticide spray.
It’s really a miracle that we’re still here.
So, there’s obviously a truth and a very high wisdom to we
physical beings come out of the spirit. And so, for literally
salvation’s sake, physical salvation’s sake, we’ve got to move
into that spirit.
And I believe that’s what the Christian concept of Rapture really
is about. That’s what I believe when Jesus said that: You will be
on the Earth, but no longer of it.
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That’s what I believe he was talking about, that metaphysically,
now we’re advancing, opening our hearts, getting into the
frequency vibration of Divinity, to bless humanity, maximally.
That will sustain us, and nothing more.
KC: Okay. Well, thank you very much, Len Horowitz. This has
been quite an encapsulation, but very, very, very well done.
You’re a very good speaker and I appreciate all the energy that
you put into this.
Europe, versus what’s going on in the US, China. You know --
the different areas of the world.
Because, not everywhere is actually experiencing this sort of shift
we’re going through in the same way and at the same pace, if you
will. So, I think that that’s actually sort of becoming the question
of the day, with the dollar being actually thrown out. It’s as if the
US is being targeted to go down first, if you will, and I’d love to
hear your thoughts on that.

What I’d love to do is invite you onto our radio show. It’s LH: Sure. I’d be happy to join you.
obvious that you have areas where we could drill down into some
of the things you’ve done in the past, some of your understanding KC: Okay. Great. All right, thank you very much.
of the global situation in various countries, what’s going on there.
LH: It’s a pleasure.
I’d love to talk to you about Africa in more depth. I’d like to hear
what your thoughts are about Europe, about what’s going on in

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Project Camelot:
Patrick Geryl - The World Cataclysm in 2012
Amsterdam, Holland, August 2009
The World Cataclysm in 2012 is the title of a book written by
Belgian author Patrick Geryl in 2005 - and the title tells it just
like he sees it. Patrick's opinion is so cut-and-dried - and quite
devoid of hope - that he was interviewed in conjunction with the
upcoming Sony Pictures movie, 2012, due to be released
worldwide next month.
The interview presents important information, including the
announcement by Patrick Geryl that he and his associate Gino
Ratinckx have discovered the location of The Labyrinth written
about in detail by Herodotus, the famous Greek scholar known as
The Father of History. Geryl is convinced that within the
Labyrinth will be confirmation of his theories. He tells us that
NBC will announce this discovery sometime in November... and
Geryl has been interviewed in connection to this as well.
Herodotus, who lived in the 5th century BC, wrote:
...As a token of their unanimity they decided to
leave a memorial and that led to the building of
the labyrinth, which is situated not far from the
southern bank of the Moiris lake, in the
neighborhood of a place called Crocodilopolis. I
have been there and it is beyond all description.
If you would make a survey of all city walls and
public buildings in Greece, you will see that all
together they did not ask so much effort nor
money as this labyrinth...
The information about the Labyrinth is intriguing. But this is far
from all. After much deliberation, we have decided to release this
interview... although we do not agree with Geryl's 2012
conclusions. This is the very first video we've ever published
which includes a disclaimer - although Patrick Geryl is a
perfectly well-meaning and intellectually honest researcher (and
for someone who is certain that the world as we know it will end,
he is astonishingly cheerful, friendly and matter-of-fact). We
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opted to release the video, with the disclaimer, so that his train of
logic could be made accessible to viewers and other researchers.
It is our conviction that as we enter this time of convergence
where a multitude of simultaneously profound changes will be
happening, the development of discernment becomes more and
more crucial. In this spirit, we offer this interview: a repoert
about the work of Patrick Geryl.
In brief, Geryl is convinced that the sun will undergo a pole
reversal in 2012, which he says, is a cyclical event that takes
place every 26,000 years and has been documented. This has
some scientific basis - and, from what we understand, this
repeating event may indeed be overdue. This solar pole reversal
would in turn induce a similar reversal on Planet Earth. At that
point, to paraphrase Geryl's conclusions, all hell will break loose.
To prepare you for this video (and don't be lulled into a false
sense of security by the very funny outtake right at the
beginning!) - these are Patrick Geryl's own words:
In 2012 the next polar reversal will take place on
earth. This means that the North Pole will be
changed into the South Pole. Scientifically this
can only be explained by the fact that the earth
will start rotating in the opposite direction,
together with a huge disaster of unknown
proportions.
In my books I reveal the immense cataclysm
that is going to torment the earth in the near
future. It is presently assumed by most people
and the general scientific world at large, that the
rotation of the Earth is stable, however, as
expounded in my previous works on this subject,
this is not the case. The gruesome reports of the
previous catastrophes should, hopefully, be
clear to all.
The historical exploration of cosmology in
previous books is founded on the translation of
hieroglyphs, cracking of codes, unveiling of the
magnetic reversal of the sun, study of old maps,
decoding of astronomical clues, geological
research, and the discovery of the most exciting
archaeological find in modern times.
Considering these I came to the following
conclusions:
1. With clock-like regularity, sudden reversals
and pole shifts are natural to the Earth.
The result is worldwide destruction, and is
supported by paleo-magnetic evidence
and early manuscripts.
2. The reversal of the poles is attributed to
the harmonic cycle of the magnetic fields
of the sun.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
3. Polar reversals can be calculated precisely
on the basis of the sunspot cycle theory or
the magnetic field theory, which the Maya
and the Old Egyptians were privy to. These
secrets are contained in the Labyrinth of
Hawara, a huge complex consisting of
three thousand rooms.
[ The article continues below this
interview... ]
The idea of a cataclysm in 2012 is not just Patrick's, of course.
Shamanic prophets, as well as many other first-world researchers,
channelers and contactees, talk of coming Earth changes in the
near future up to and beyond 2012. This is well documented both
in terms of science and modern New Age myth. Patrick Geryl
and Roland Emmerich (the director of the movie 2012) are not
alone in their consideration of the future.
As those familiar with our site will no doubt recall, that many of
our witnesses talk of coming Earth changes. For example, Bob
Dean talks of 2017 and the coming of Nibiru - with the inevitable
effect upon our planet. We are told by a former black project
insider, Jake Simpson, of the coming of a 'wave' from outside our
solar system on its way here at the speed of light... detected by
highly classified superluminal [faster-then-light] craft. And then
there are the repeated admonitions from Henry Deacon (real
name Arthur Neumann) urging us to 'prepare' for a potentially
devastating future that may contain food shortages, water
shortages, and Earth changes worldwide that will change the
nature of life as we know it. But all these witnesses offer hope:
none come close to the dark picture painted by Geryl.
What also makes this interesting territory to explore is that, as
many visitors to this site will be well aware, governments of the
US and other countries have spent trillions of dollars building
hundreds (if not thousands) of deep underground bases, some the
size of small cities with an elaborate subterranean transport
system connecting them, and most black project researchers now
support the idea of a secret space program that might be far more
sophisticated and advanced than would be easily believable.
The question is WHY. Is this preparation for a cataclysmic event
that had been foreseen using classified, advanced technology - or
one about which we were warned by friendly time-traveling ETs?
Or is the reality more subtle: that there was reason to take
precautions against a possible event of this nature, but that while
the military were doing what they do best - digging in
defensively - the best minds on and off the planet were working
to eliminate potential threats?
Based on insider testimony from our own multiple sources,
Project Camelot firmly believes the latter. For more on this,
please read our major article 2009: A Tale of Two Timelines,
which cites strong evidence that the future is malleable and
changeable (and NOT fixed) - and that the way things turn out for
us all is influenced not only by benevolent, proactive high
technology, but also by the power of consciousness itself.
This is, in our view, the major flaw in Patrick Geryl's analysis.
He omits to consider the power of consciousness to mould and
shape events. It is also important to state that, when asked, Geryl
admits to no knowledge or awareness or our ET lineage and the
presence of the many ET races currently standing by, watching
and interacting with us during this crucial time.
306
We believe that the many hundreds of thousands of Indigo and
Crystal Children, preceded by more mature warriors like
ourselves (and there are MANY of us: we are only two people
among a very large worldwide team that spans every language
and culture), would NOT be here if the future was predetermined.
There is, from the spiritual perspective, a game to be played and
therefore the outcome remains uncertain.
Here, the use of the word 'game' does not imply anything trivial.
Seen from an Earthly level, it could not be more serious -
although a spiritually light touch adds substantially to the power
one has at one's disposal to catalyze and encourage change and
transformation. The notion of a game is that the outcome is
uncertain - and that the desired outcome is worth striving for,
maybe against opposition in the form of the counter-intentions of
others, and other logistical and practical challenges. The stakes
are high, the outcome is not fixed, and there are players in this
game - seen and unseen, on either side - which have very
significant power and ability.
While this is the longest introduction to a video we've yet written,
t his is the shortest written summary we can offer of what is a
huge and extremely important subject. It is not everything that
Camelot is about, but is quite a large part: and those of you who
have accompanied us on this journey will be well aware of much
of what has been written above.
We encourage and ask you to support the process, each in your
own way, of ensuring that the outcome for the human race is a
desirable one, and that the planet will be one which our children
will enjoy - and where we ourselves will be pleased to return in
our next lifetime, should we so choose.
In the end, the opportunity is for us to learn through experience
and to use discernment in evaluating the theories and any so-
called prophecies about the future as they emerge.. one by one,
knowing that it is possible to determine truth from falsity and lies
from that which resonates within each of us.
Start of Interview
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Introduction:
PLEASE NOTE: The conclusions presented by researcher
Patrick Geryl in this interview will be found by many to be
shocking and unacceptable.
We at Project Camelot do not agree with his final conclusions.
After some discussion we have decided to publish the interview
for two reasons: there are issues brought up which merit
discussion; and a recent discovery in Egypt (the Labyrinth at
Hawara), which was extensively referenced by Geryl, is evidently
real and of major archaeological significance.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Enjoy the interview – and recognize that Geryl is probably
talking about the T2 catastrophe (see Dan Burisch material)
which we are very confident has been averted.
See our major article: 2009: A Tale of Two Timelines … for
more information and references.
Bill Ryan
Kerry Cassidy
Project Camelot
August 2009
The Interview:
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Hi, I’m Kerry Cassidy.
BILL RYAN (BR): And I’m Bill Ryan.
KC: From Project Camelot. It’s August 1st.
BR: No it’s not. It’s August the 2nd. [laughter, chatter]
KC: Okay, I’m sorry. It’s August 2nd, 2009.
BR: You got the year right.
KC: We’re here with Patrick Geryl. He’s written a book called
The World Cataclysm in 2012 and it’s pretty amazing. It’s very,
very apocalyptic, I think you might say. But you use your own
description. I’d love you to tell the people who you are and let’s
just start out with that, your background.
PATRICK GERYL (PG): Right. I’m Patrick Geryl from
Belgium. More than 30 years ago I wrote a book, The New
Space-Time Dimension, and I made several predictions about the
universe.
I found several faults in the Theory of Relativity and that was
published in the Belgium press and I was on the Belgian TV with
that in 1990. I predicted an accelerating universe and that was
found true in 1998, but nobody knows about this, because it was
only published in Dutch and not in English.
Last year, in 2008, another prediction of mine was found true.
That was very fast galaxies near the speed of light. I was the only
one that predicted that more than 30 years ago.
Now, what has this to do with 2012? Everything. Because I found
that the Maya and the Egyptians knew a theory about astronomy
that is not known by astronomers today. It concerns the Sunspot
Cycle Theory. I was able to decode a large part of that theory and
with that theory, you can calculate the reversal of the magnetic
field of the Sun.
BR: So this has got to do with Solar Cycle 24.
PG: Yes.
BR: Right. Okay.
307
PG: Now with that theory, the Maya were able to calculate a big
switch in the magnetic field of the Sun. Also, they count down
with that theory till December 2012, and at that moment in time,
a very large apocalyptic Sun-storm will destroy our civilization.
BR: Is it in the form of what some people call a Coronal Mass
Ejection? Or what Ed Dames, for example, calls the kill-shot? Is
it this kind of thing?
PG: Yes. It is that kind of thing. That will happen. In a few
hours’ time the amount of energy from the Sun, the output will
increase tremendously. Then a big solar storm with trillions of
particles will be thrown to the Earth and that will destroy the
magnetic field of the Earth.
In short, a shockwave from particles is coming to the Earth that
falls into the magnetic field of the Earth. But the Earth has an
angle. It is going with an angle of 23 degrees around the sun.
Now, the South Pole is looking this way and the North Pole is
looking that way. The polarity of the shockwave is a southern
polarity, so when it hits the Earth, you have a South Pole here
and a South Pole there that is coming.
Now, you have the inner core of the Earth. It’s very small – it’s
only 1,000 kilometers while the Earth is 6,000 kilometers – and a
South Pole and a South Pole, they push away each other. So the
inner core of the Earth will turn upside-down. But if you take a
ball and you turn it upside-down while it is moving, then you will
see that after the movement it will start turning the opposite
direction.
So, while the inner core is coming upside-down, the outer crust
of the Earth will start moving the other way around. So now, this
time, the Earth is moving that way.
At a certain moment of time, the inner core starts to turn 180
degrees. Now, it’s a bit complicated to explain it in a short time
because the outer crust of the Earth won’t go 180 degrees. The
reason is, the equator has a bulge and to move over that bulge,
you need an incredible amount of energy.
So what is my expectation? If you look at the land masses, you
will see that Africa and Europe have the largest land mass and it
is difficult to move. On the other side you have South America
and the United States in the other direction that can move more
easily.
So my expectation is that the land mass of South America and the
United States will move, in one day, 3,000 kilometers upwards
and on the other side it will move 3,000 kilometers downward.
So, Canada will go under the Pole and South America will move
equator-ward and even go over that, while Africa and Europe
won’t move that much.
But on the other side, you have also that the rotation of the Earth
reverses. While it now moves this way, in one day it will move
the other way around.
Okay, what are the effects? At the moment that the inner core
starts turning 180 degrees on its head, all buildings on Earth will
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
be leveled down completely – it’s 9/11, but on a worldwide scale
in less than one minute. Nothing will remain.
Then all volcanoes in the whole world will go off immediately
and after that, while the rotation of the Earth is stopping, you will
have a tidal wave of more than 1-1/2 kilometers worldwide
because...
At this moment, the speed of the Earth at the equator is about
1,600 kilometers an hour at the equator. That stops and it reverses
the rotation. It’s a difference of more than 3,000 kilometers an
hour in one day.
Now, if you are moving with a car and you stop, you are pulled
forward. The oceans at that moment are pulled forward and that
is the reason why we have these tidal waves.
KC: Okay. Now, we want to go into this in more detail.
PG: Yes.
KC: But before we do, what I would like you to do is talk about
your background in terms of: What are your degrees? What is
your background, in terms of: What have you studied in order to
get you to this place?
PG: Well, as explained, when I was young, I started studying
astronomy and all the sciences. I’ve read since more than 40
years everything about popular and more detailed science.
KC: Do you have Ph.D., for example?
PG: No, I don’t have a Ph.D. but, as I explained, I was the only
one in the whole world who predicted an accelerating universe.
BR: What does that mean? I’m just asking you about the term...
when you say accelerating.
PG: Yes. Now...
BR: What’s accelerating?
KC: You mean expanding?
PG: Thirty years ago they said there is a Big Bang theory from
the universe. They said there was a long time ago, billions of
years ago, there was one point and that exploded and then they
saw the fastest galaxies at that moment were about 33,000
kilometers per second.
BR: So the expansion is accelerating also?
PG: No, no.
BR: I’m sorry.
PG: At that time, they said: Look, there was an explosion and it
will slow down because if you put something from the Earth it
goes up and then it slows down – the same principle from the
universe.
308
But I had a completely different view and I said: No, no, no, this
theory is not right, because there are faults in the Theory of
Relativity.
Now, to explain that in short, what faults were there in the
Theory of Relativity? You have two theories – you have the
Special Theory of Relativity and you have the General Theory of
Relativity.
With the Special Theory of Relativity, you can say that if you
accelerate a mass to the speed of light that the mass will grow to
infinity. On the other side, you have the General Theory of
Relativity, then you can calculate gravitation, gravity.
Now, the two don’t compare with each other. If you accelerate
our Sun to the speed of light then it will have, according to the
Special Relativity Theory, an infinite mass. But you can’t
calculate that the gravitation will be then also infinite. It’s
impossible.
BR: I understand.
PG: So that’s a fault in the Theories of Relativity. So you must
find a theory that explains that if you accelerate a sun or a planet
to the speed of light that the mass grows, that also the gravitation
grows.
My idea was – and I speak from 40 years ago, I was very young –
if you have a universe... Now let’s imagine that there are, on the
frontier of the universe, galaxies, near the speed of light, then
there should be an infinite mass here while we are with our
Galaxy here.
Now, if there is an infinite mass here, then this infinite mass
should pull at the inner galaxies of our universe and they should
be accelerated to that mass. That was my theory.
There were several things, more than five predictions, based on
that. So they should find galaxies near the speed of light, and then
they should find an accelerating universe. They have found that.
Then the galaxies that are near the speed of light should be very
old. According to the Big Bang theory, they should be very
young. So that is the opposite.
So, you understand?
BR/KC: Yes.
PG: It’s a bit complicated and that is why I was the only one who
ever predicted that and it was completely the reverse from what
the others were predicting.
KC: I understand. But where did you get this idea from? In other
words, did you study to be an astronomer?
PG: I’ve read since 40 years almost all articles that were
published about astronomy.
KC: Okay. Do you have a degree of any kind from a university?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
PG: No, I don’t have a degree of any kind, but Einstein didn’t
have also. [Bill laughs]
KC: I understand. So were you, by trade, were you an
astronomer? Were you a scientist?
PG: No, I’m just a researcher. I’m a researcher.
KC: Okay. Now, this idea, did you get this idea... did you
meditate? Did you do research and you added, you know, this
thing and that thing to reach this conclusion? Or did you have an
inspiration?
PG: Let us say: one percent inspiration and 99 percent
transpiration. [Kerry laughs]
KC: Okay. Yeah. Perspiration, we say in America, perhaps.
PG: Perspiration. Okay.
KC: Okay. So you have this theory and it’s been proven right 40
years later.
PG: Yes.
KC: How does this relate to the research you did on the Mayan
and other civilizations? In other words, are you saying that this
has happened before?
PG: Yes. It happens every 11,500 years.
Now, you have Ice Ages. Did you see the movie Ice Age? Now,
before the movie starts, you see that the United States is under
the ice and then it is ice-free, and then again it’s under the ice,
and then again it’s ice-free. And nobody knows why.
Now, if you take what I have explained, that in one day United
States and Canada will move a few thousands kilometers upward,
under the Pole, then you have an Ice Age.
And that’s the explanation of Ice Ages. If you move very fast,
then also it explains why there were mammoths found with the
food still undigested in their mouth because in a few hours they
froze to death.
KC: So you’re saying a Pole shift is responsible for the Ice Ages.
PG: A Pole-shift is responsible for the Ice Ages.
KC: Okay. Are you then also saying that the Sun is responsible
for the Pole-shift?
PG: Yes. The Sun is responsible.
KC: In every case in the past?
PG: Every case in the past.
309
KC: And are you finding records that, you know, that back this
idea up? In other words, records in ice cores?
PG: No, the Ice Ages are known. Ask every scientist that knows
about it and he will say: Yes, there are recurring Ice Ages in the
United States and in Europe because at the moment that the
Poles shift...
Why is it warm in Europe? We are now here in Holland. Now, if
you look at the same... [searches for word] ... is it latitude like
Holland?
BR: Latitude, yes.
PG: Latitude. Now, you see at the same latitude in Canada, there
is ice accumulated. Why is it warm here? Because of the Gulf
Stream. That’s the reason why it is warm here. Now, if the Gulf
Stream stopped, then you have also an Ice Age at the same
moment in Europe.
KC: Okay. What about the precession of the equinoxes? Are you
also relating to that?
PG: Yes, yes, yes. Because I found in the Book of the Dead of the
Egyptians that, at that moment that there is Pole-shift, the
precession of the equinoxes is changed completely.
Now we are saying we are going to the Age of Aquarius. We will
never reach it. We can end at the end of 2012 in a completely
other age, in Lion or Capricorn, or I don’t know. I don’t know.
Yes, we will be catapulted in one way because the rotation of the
Earth is now this way and it will go the other way around.
KC: So you’re basically saying...
PG: We will lose our latitude and longitude. We have to make
completely new maps of the world. It will be impossible if you
are in the ocean to find where you are.
BR: I have a question here, Patrick, and that is that the scenario
that you described right at the start when you introduced
yourself... it’s very, very specific, with specific measurements...
you know, the 3,000-kilometer shift, all of this. But how did you
decode this from the relatively small amount of information that
you have available? PG: Because it happened in the past. You
have to look at the Ice Ages, where the ice came in the past, and
then you can see that what I am predicting has between 80% to
90% chance of happening. There is also 10% to 20% chance that
Africa and Europe will move forward, but that is less likely.
BR: But what’s the connection between that and the data that you
get from the Mayans? Because there will be people watching this
who just say: Well, okay, the Mayans had this calendar and it
seems to end, or at least part of it seems to end, before they go
into the next larger cycle. How do you get all of your information
from that?
PG: Now, it’s not only the Maya because I found the most
important things in Egypt. There was a Frenchman, Albert
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Slosman, and he translated more than 30 years ago a story of a
high civilization that was destroyed by a Pole-shift.
Now, in that story was also translated that they calculated the last
Pole-shift and that they were able to escape with unsinkable
boats; that they reached after a few days the coast of Morocco,
and that they went to Egypt after thousands and thousands of
years.
BR: This is the Atlantis catastrophe.
PG: That is the Atlantis story. Now the writer, Albert Slosman,
wrote twelve books in French about that, and just prior to the
publication in English, he had an accident and died. So they were
never published in English and nobody knows about it. I only
know about it because I’ve read the books in French.
BR: And they’ve never been translated?
PG: They’ve never been translated in English.
BR: Okay.
PG: Now, Albert Slosman, he said: Look, nobody will believe
this, but there is proof in Egypt. I looked: Proof in Egypt? He
said: Yes. There is in Egypt a building called the Labyrinth and
that building was described by Herodotus. Herodotus was an
ancient historian.
BR: Where is the Labyrinth, Patrick?
PG: One moment.
BR: I’m sorry.
PG: So Herodotus visited the Labyrinth 2,500 years ago and he
wrote about that... because I bought the book of Herodotus. It’s
700 pages thick.
He said: Look, he said, I’ve seen the Pyramids. Very impressive,
he said. But, he said, I am now in the Labyrinth and I’m walking
here for hours and hours. This is the most amazing thing I have
ever seen in my whole life. It consists of 3,000 rooms in two
stories and I am only allowed from the Egyptians to visit one, the
upper level, and not the under level because the secrets of Egypt
are there.
So, after reading that, I knew where I had to be. Now, where was
the Labyrinth? That was a problem because nobody [had] ever
found it.
BR: Hm. Herodotus was a good historian, wasn’t he?
PG: Yes. Very good, because the last years he had described
several things from Saqqara and they were found.
BR: Exactly.
310
PG: Now, the Egyptians were saying: Aw, Herodotus, not so
good; he was a liar. I speak from more than ten years ago. So the
Labyrinth is exaggerated.
It wasn’t exaggerated. We found it last year. Nobody knows at
the moment. It’s now August, but in November 2009, it will be
on an NBC special from 2012.
BR: You say we found it. This was you and a team of people?
You found it?
PG: A friend of mine -- Louis de Cordier and me -- we went to
Egypt in December 2007, because I had connections after years
of years working with the Egyptians. We wanted to scan with a
geo-radar the Labyrinth. So it was only a sponsor that I needed
and Louis de Cordier is an artist and he sells things for that. He
made a Sun golden disk and he sold that to pay for the scanning
of the Labyrinth.
BR: Where were you looking for it?
KC: Your theory was actually that it was somewhere at the foot
of the Sphinx?
PG: No, no, no, no, no; absolutely not. We didn’t know where it
was, so I asked my friend at that time, Gino Ratinckx. He was an
archeoastronomer – he had a degree in archaeology and in
astronomy – and I asked him: Do you know where the Labyrinth
could be?
I will think about it, and two weeks later he called me and he
said: Look, I found a clue.
And I said: Why?
He said: Look, if we take a labyrinth of stars in the sky and we
project it to the Earth, then that would be the place of the
Labyrinth.
And I said: Hey, that’s good thinking.
And he said: Well, it looks to me it should be in Hawara.
BR: In where?
PG: In Hawara. That’s about 100 kilometers from the Pyramids.
BR: Hawara. Okay.
PG: So I said: Okay. That makes sense.
So we visited a few months later [in] Egypt and he found a
connection between several temples – like the Temple of
Dendera – that should be the star Deneb. And when we visited
Egypt, we asked them, the boss from the temple: Is it connected
to a star, or something?
Yes, he said, it’s connected to the star Deneb.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And Gino’s: Look, your theory is right. Then we found several
other connections and then, of course, the conclusion was the
Labyrinth should be in Hawara.
Okay? So we went to Hawara and I already knew that the
archaeologists talked at that moment that the Labyrinth also
should be at Hawara, but they were thinking that it was totally
destroyed and nothing remained of it. Okay, that was the theory
in 1997.
So in December 2007, I was with my friend, Louis de Cordier, in
Egypt and six weeks later, the Egyptians were scanning the
Labyrinth. They took a month to scan the Labyrinth and we have
what they found at home, the results, and indeed, the Labyrinth is
there. It is 300 meters large, 250 meters wide, and 20 meters
high.
KC: So they found it underground? Or did they find something
on the surface?
PG: No, it’s under water. The problem is, 200 years ago they
needed water and they took a side-river of the Nile over it. Now
the Egyptians are putting pumps and other material there to pump
the water out, and also that the side-river of the Nile, or side-
stream, that is going over the Labyrinth is put in... how do you
call that?... that it will go into pipes.
KC: Oh, I see.
PG: Yeah.
BR: So the Labyrinth itself is under water.
PG: It’s under water.
KC: How did they discover any sign of it if it’s under water? Did
you send divers down?
PG: No, no, no, no. You can see it with a geo... like a radar? You
can look with radar under the ground and with that you can see
clearly that there are buildings there.
BR: Yes. But you can’t see the details of what’s in there.
PG: No, because of the water.
BR: So the water’s got to be pumped out first.
PG: Yes. And now we have to do a new scanning.
BR: That is a fascinating discovery.
KC: And is this going to be announced, you’re saying, in
November [of 2009]?
PG: Um... NBC went two times to Egypt this year and they
filmed in Egypt and then they should release that the Labyrinth
has been found, because at the moment Dr. Hawass from Egypt,
he’s not releasing the results.
311
But we had in the University of Ghent last year before 600 people
that Dr. Hawass came explaining that, indeed, he has found the
Labyrinth and that it is there. It never went worldwide. It was
only published in the Belgian press, so the whole Belgian press
knew about it, but it never went outside Belgium.
BR: This is a huge discovery.
PG: This is the biggest thing ever in human history. It is the
biggest building ever built. It’s 30 kilometers large. Why?
Because if you have 3,000 rooms, and each room is only ten
meters long, then you have 30 kilometers.
BR: I thought he said it was only 300 meters.
PG: Yes, but the total length of walking – 3,000 rooms, each
room ten meters.
BR: Now, is this something that could be connected with the Hall
of Records?
PG: Yes. It’s the Hall of Records.
BR: This is the Hall of Records?
PG: This is the Hall of Records. Everybody is looking at Giza.
Sorry, guys.
BR: Wrong place.
PG: You are at the wrong place. [laughs] It’s in the Labyrinth in
Hawara.
BR: What are you expecting to find? What information are you
expecting to be in there?
PG: We are looking for a room from granite, sheeted in gold, and
there, there are 36 hieroglyphs with the theory, how they count
down to 2012.
BR: Where did that information, that idea, come from, that
you’re looking for that?
PG: The Frenchman, Albert Slosman, translated that.
BR: Ahh... yes.
KC: Is this again Herodotus?
PG: No, no, no. It’s from the Frenchman, Albert Slosman. He
translated that from the hieroglyphs on the temples in Egypt. I
don’t know where because he died in 1981, I think, so...
KC: So, on the temples in Egypt it talked about the Labyrinth and
it...
PG: Yes.
KC: ...and it talked about this room...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
PG: Yes.
KC: ...that contains this information about 2012?
PG: Not about 2012, because the date is not released. But if you
go to the Temple of Dendera, you see that the Age of Pisces ends
and it doesn’t go to Aquarius. So it’s at the end of this time that
the cataclysm will happen.
BR: And that’s the correlation with the Mayan Calendar. PG:
That’s the correlation with the Mayan Calendar because the
Egyptians knew the same theory like the Maya did.
KC: Okay. But what you’re saying, in essence, sounds like the
end of civilization as we know it.
PG: Yes. We will be completely wiped out. Only a few million
people in the whole world will survive this.
KC: And these people will be where?
PG: You have to be higher than two kilometers, far away from
volcanoes, and earthquake resistant. Also, if you are in South
America and you are on a high mountain and you are pulled
equator-wards, then the mountain will collapse. So that’s a very
hard place to survive.
BR: And it’s not very good news for the people in Belgium and
Holland.
PG: Nobody can survive in Holland, in England, or Belgium
because the tidal wave is 1.5 kilometers high. It’s described in the
Bible; everything was under water.
It’s not only in the Bible. You can see on my website that there
are stories from a worldwide flood and that everything was under
water.
BR: Yep.
PG: Nobody can explain that, but if you have a reversal of the
rotation of the Earth, okay, explanation complete.
KC: Is it possible that this theory could be wrong?
PG: No. Absolutely not.
KC: Oh yeah? Why not?
BR: That’s a pretty strong statement.
KC: Yeah.
PG: Yes. But I was also on the Belgian television and I stated in
1990: Look, the universe has to expand with an acceleration, and
everybody laughed at me and they said: He’s nuts. And only
eight years later they said: [laughs] The universe is expanding
with an acceleration.
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KC: Is it possible that the force of acceleration is not as fast as
you think it is?
PG: From what?
KC: In other words, it could be slower. It could still accelerate or
expand but it could be slower, less drastic...?
PG: Do you have it about the universe or about what is happening
in 2012?
KC: You’re saying that the universe is expanding or accelerating.
PG: It’s accelerating, for a very short time, of course, and now it
stops again, huh?
KC: What is going to create this acceleration suddenly?
PG: No, no, no. I explained that already.
BR: What Patrick is saying is he was right about that prediction,
so he’s right about this one.
KC: No, but I’m saying, if the universe is accelerating, is it
accelerating from the Big Bang?
PG: No, no, no. I explained that already in the beginning. You
have infinite masses here that pull on the galaxies inside. They
are accelerating during a very short time, and then the
acceleration...
KC: What time?
PG: I don’t know exactly, but then the acceleration stops, because
you are nearing the speed of light and you can’t go over the speed
of light.
BR: But this isn’t important in respect to what we’re talking
about. It’s irrelevant.
PG: It’s irrelevant.
KC: Well, it is relevant because basically if that part of the theory
is wrong, then everything else may be wrong.
PG: No, no. It’s not correlated.
BR: There’s no connection?
PG: There’s no connection between the two. It’s only, I
explained, I was the only one that ever made such a prediction.
KC: Okay.
PG: That was in complete... the opposite from the other scientists.
KC: Okay. Then what are you saying will stimulate the Sun to
create this solar flare such that it will engulf and cause the shift?
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PG: Yes.
KC: What is acting on the Sun that’s going to cause this?
PG: It’s the natural cycle. Every eleven years you have a change
in the magnetic field of the Sun.
KC: Eleven years?
PG: Eleven years.
BR: The sunspot cycle.
PG: The sunspot cycle. At the northern part, you have the plus
first and at the southern part, you have the minus first. They
change after eleven years so that after 22 years, you have the
same plus again on the sunspots.
Now, I was the first in the whole world to crack that the Maya
knew a theory to describe the sunspot cycle. It took me years to
find it. Now, in the last two weeks, I was able to prove that the
sunspots, indeed, change from plus to minus every eleven years
and everybody who is interested or is a good mathematician can
ask me the theory and I can send it to him.
BR: I think Maurice Cotterell says something similar, doesn't he?
PG: Yes. He says something similar. It is based on his ideas, but
he made several faults and I have corrected them. I found at least
five faults in his theory and I needed to correct them. So now I
am able to calculate an eleven sunspot cycle theoretically and no
astronomer in the whole world is able to do that.
BR: Understood. Just by coincidence, a few days ago we met
Paul LaViolette.
PG: Yes. I met him also.
BR: Very intelligent man, very interesting man.
PG: Yes.
BR: And, of course, you understand his theory about Galactic
Superwaves which influence the Sun in this periodic way, so he’s
describing a possible mechanism to create the kind of thing that
you’re talking about, I think. Is that right?
PG: Yes. But in fact, the end result is about the same. He doesn’t
believe in a Pole shift, but okay.
BR: Correct.
PG: But we are talking about a cataclysm. The only fault he made
I sent him – I spoke to him last year. We met in Rome about a
conference about 2012 and I gave him my theory but he didn’t
have time enough to study it.
BR: Okay.
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PG: I am now trying to push several mathematicians. Already
one of the best mathematicians in the whole world has it that the
theory is right, but he doesn’t want to release a statement because
he said: If I release a statement that this theory is right, we will
have worldwide panic in a very short time because everybody
will know then that the Maya countdown with this theory and that
the theory is right and that’s more than enough.
BR: Do you believe that the governments of the world know this?
PG: No, because they don’t know this theory.
BR: Okay.
KC: Okay, but this theory of the sunspots... you say it’s
happening every eleven years.
PG: Yes.
KC: So we go through this...
PG: No, no. That’s a minor reversal.
KC: Where’s the major...?
PG: Yes, yes, yes. But with that theory, you can calculate a major
reversal and that happens every 11,500 years, in mean; there are
longer and there are shorter cycles. That is what is important.
That is what we will have to find in the Labyrinth in Egypt. We
want to find the study of the sunspot cycle from the Egyptians
and then we can calculate exactly the day that it will happen
again.
BR: So it’s pretty important to get that information from the
Labyrinth.
PG: Yes. Yes. Yes.
BR: When will the water be pumped out?
PG: If everything goes all right, in 2010, around October or
something like that.
BR: Why isn’t this in every newspaper? I mean, this is incredible
information about the Labyrinth.
PG: Because Dr. Hawass doesn’t want to release the results.
KC: Of course.
PG: I have more that I can’t say about it. Because what did we
find at the Giza Plateau?
BR: Okay.
PG: Right. I was with Polish friends at the Giza Plateau, scanning
there in 2006, and the end result was released. It was said we
have found tunnels that could lead to precious tombs.
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And in 2007 the whole Giza Plateau was scanned but no results
were released. But I know that they found several caves and
Herodotus wrote in his book that Cheops wasn’t buried in the
Pyramid but that he was laying around the Giza Plateau on an
island.
BR: I remember that. Yeah. I remember that now. That’s
interesting.
PG: Right. So I know more but I can’t say it.
KC: But they are doing a tremendous amount of digging around
the Giza Plateau right now.
PG: No, no, no. Not a tremendous amount.
KC: I’ve seen it. Oh yeah, there are huge excavations happening
right around the large Pyramid, right on the outside, right in
between, near the... The Sphinx is here, the large Pyramid... it’s
in this area. There are huge diggings going on, they have it
partitioned off.
PG: Since when are they doing this?
KC: I was there, I think it was two years ago.
BR: April 2006.
KC: Yeah. 2006.
PG: No, no. I know about that. No, no, no. That’s all small
diggings because it’s not allowed until 2012 to do large diggings
at the Giza Plateau.
KC: How do you know that?
PG: Because that’s the law in Egypt. It’s not allowed until 2012.
Why? I don’t know, but it's 2012!
KC: Okay. Well that’s interesting.
BR: Yes. So Zahi Hawass knows everything, does he?
PG: He does. He does.
KC: You think he does.
PG: No. He doesn’t know about 2012 because my friends, the
Polish, were excavating at the Labyrinth till three months ago.
Dr. Hawass found out between the connection from 2012 and the
Labyrinth and he stopped the excavations and they found already
several things.
So there were, I think, 80 Egyptians excavating there. The Polish
weren’t excavating, but they were paying for the Egyptians to
excavate it. Hawass stopped the excavations and then the
Egyptians took over. So that is the latest what I know at the
moment.
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KC: So they were excavating underwater?
PG: No, no. The water is five meters deep... from zero to five
meters, and they were looking there and they found several
things.
BR: Are there photographs and films of this?
PG: Yes. The Polish have.
BR: Is this released? Is this available in the public domain at all?
PG: Part of it was on their website but they had to remove it from
their websites, from Dr. Hawass, and I don’t know at the moment
because I didn’t have time to correspond with them the last
weeks, so I don’t know.
KC: Okay. But I want to get back to the Sun and also ask you
what is acting on the Sun to create this cycle, you call it, that’s
happening every 11,500 years?
PG: It has to do with the speed of the equator field and the polar
field. If you look at the Sun and the speed of the equator field,
you see the sunspots moving – it’s about 26 days. At the pole
field that you can’t see from the Earth, it’s 37 days.
Now, I am asking myself since more than 13 years: How could
the Maya and the Egyptians know the speed of the polar field
while you can’t see it from the Earth?
I have no clue. I have no idea, but they studied the Sun for
thousands and thousand and thousand of years and so they must
have seen something while they were doing it and been able to
calculate it.
KC: Are you familiar with Zecharia Sitchin’s work?
PG: Yes.
KC: And what about the idea that the Anunnaki were involved?
PG: No.
KC: No?
PG: I don’t believe it. I believe there is 10,000% evidence that
there was a high civilization on Earth that was destroyed by a
polar shift.
We will find the evidence in the Labyrinth because we will find
the Hall of Records where we can find how the Earth looked like
– because Antarctica was without ice. There are maps from
Antarctica without ice and that we will find in the Labyrinth and
then everybody will say WOW!
We have only a short time to live. What are we going to do? And
at that moment I think the worldwide economy will collapse in
two weeks or something like that.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
That’s my expectation because everybody will be so baffled that
they will say: Oh, everything is over. Why would I work? We will
stop. We will enjoy it. We have only a very short time left.
KC: How long have you thought you’ve known this?
PG: I knew this from September 2006. I had absolute proof then
because I read the book from Maurice Cotterell, The Mayan
Prophecies, and I saw that his theory is not known by
astronomers today. Then I started researching and I found [out]
about the books from the Frenchman, Albert Slosman, that had
translated that there was a high civilization on Earth that was able
to calculate the last pole reversal.
Then I connected the dots between the Maya and Egyptians and
then I said: Look, there is something in the theory from the
sunspot cycle that has to be found, and I was now able to crack a
large part of that. That is why I am so sure, because this theory is
not known by astronomers today.
BR: What’s been the response of people to this? Because this
going to be quite hard for some people to listen to this.
PG: Yes.
BR: You must have had this reaction many, many times.
PG: Yes. Nobody wants to believe it. They say: Look, even if it’s
true, we don’t want to believe it.
KC: What about the underground bases that the governments
around the world are building? Don’t you think that perhaps that
they know something about this theory? I don’t know if they
would agree with you completely, but do you think that the bases
are with the idea that they might survive?
PG: They have no chance of survival because the earthquakes
will be so large that there will be cracks in these underground
bases and the water from 1.5 kilometers will go through those
cracks and they will kill everybody that is inside it.
So now you have in Norway a vault that will be completely
destroyed. No doubt about it. You have to be higher than two
kilometers and that’s the only way to survive.
BR: Sure, I understand. But they’re trying to protect against
something. They built the seed vault at Svalbard.
PG: Yes.
BR: They built that because they knew something.
PG: It’s possible that they know a lot more. It’s possible, but I
doubt it because they don’t know this theory. But I leave it in the
middle.
But even then, if they know something, then they make terrible
vaults because I don’t want to be under the ground when there is
a tidal wave from 1.5 kilometers.
315
KC: So do you believe we have alien visitors on the Earth at this
time?
PG: No. I don’t believe that. I only believe in a high civilization.
That is already hard enough to understand for everybody in the
whole world.
KC: Meaning a high civilization that came from other planets?
PG: No, no, no! On Earth. That was able...
Look, we have a high civilization at this moment. Now, when the
cataclysm hits us, all computers will be destroyed. Only books
will survive.
If you have to restart from scratch, then that maybe will take
another 10- or 12,000 years before we have another high
civilization that will be destroyed again in a new cataclysm.
KC: Okay. So you have...
PG: One moment... one moment. I'm not finished yet. Now, how
fast are we completely destroyed?
One hour. Because in one hour an electromagnetic pulse will
destroy every computer. Nothing will remain except the books.
Do we have books above two kilometers or on a few places on
Earth that are higher than that? But most of that will be destroyed
in the earthquakes and then there will be rains.
What will remain from what we know now at this moment?
Almost nothing.
So you want to restart? Something easy – you want to make iron.
Do you know how to make iron? I don’t know. I need a book for
that.
Do you know how to make... look, you have tooth pain. Now you
need something to relieve the pain. Do you know how to make it?
No, you don’t know. Do you understand the problems?
BR: Sure, we’re back in the Stone Age.
PG: No, the Stone Age was better [Bill laughs] because there will
be no Sun for 40 years. There will be a dust of cloud around the
Earth for 40 years from the volcanoes. If you have seen the
documentary from Yellowstone Park then you will know that if
there is a large eruption from a super-volcano that there will be a
dust cloud around the Earth for 45 years.
Now we are talking not about Yellowstone Park alone. We are
talking about almost all volcanoes so there will be a dust cloud
for 40 years around the Earth. No food. No heat, nothing.
KC: Let me ask you, though, if you don’t believe ETs are here on
Earth, there have been reports that there have been craft spotted
around the Sun. Okay?
PG: Mm-hm.
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KC: Have you heard these reports?
PG: No, I haven’t heard these reports but I’m just saying my
case. Now, nobody believes in a high civilization on Earth and I
have absolute proof of that because...
KC: Well, they believe in Atlantis, right?
PG: They believe in Atlantis, but ask a scientist and they’re way
off.
BR: I understand. Sure.
PG: I have only one proof at the moment that there was a high
civilization on Earth and that is the Sunspot Cycle Theory. This
theory is so incredibly complicated and not known by
astronomers today. That is the absolute proof.
BR: Hm.
KC: Interesting.
PG: That is the absolute proof.
BR: Now, let me ask you a sort of existential question, if you
like. If it’s so hopeless, why are you even telling anybody?
Because it sounds like the kind of thing that nobody can do
anything about even if they knew exactly what was going to
happen.
PG: No, no.
BR: What can people do with the information?
PG: No, no. We have a survival group and we want to survive in
several places on Earth: the Sierra Nevada in Spain, and
especially somewhere, a place, in Namibia or South Africa or
Tanzania or Ethiopia.
Because there is another problem. We have now a large part of
the world covered with nuclear plants. They will melt down, so it
is impossible to live or to survive, in Europe and the United
States.
BR: And that’s why you’re looking at southern Africa.
PG: Yes. It will be contaminated for thousand and thousands and
thousands of years.
Now, that is not the only problem. The major problem is that the
fuel that has been used for the nuclear plants is at several places
at the moment and it is cooled down, cooled down, eh?
Now, if the cooling stops, that disaster will be larger than the
melting of all nuclear plants. I asked a specialist about that and he
said: If that happens, I don’t know if humanity can survive.
BR: Yeah. We heard from somebody, and I don’t think we can
say very much about this on record, but we did hear from
somebody that the movie The China Syndrome was based on a
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real incident that has never been released. Do you know this
movie?
PG: The China Syndrome? Yes, I have seen the movie. Yes, yes,
yes.
BR: We’ve heard that’s based on a real incident, which is quite
interesting. We can’t prove it.
PG: Yes, but Chernobyl happened.
BR: Chernobyl certainly happened and so did Three Mile Island.
I understand the point. How about Australia? Is Australia a place
to...?
PG: The high places are natural parks so you can’t build survival
bunkers there. So it’s pretty hopeless, I think.
BR: Not even inland? I mean, I guess inland you’ve just got
desert so you can’t really...
PG: The tidal wave is everywhere 1.5 kilometer high, at least, I
think. It is even nearer to two kilometers.
KC: This is based, though, on a reversal on the Sun first. Is this
correct?
PG: Yes.
KC: So if this reversal does not happen, or if it’s smaller. In other
words, some of the predictions have talked about CMEs –
coronal mass ejections – hitting the Earth but they will only hit
certain parts of the Earth momentarily so that it’s not an overall
situation.
PG: No, no, no. There is no doubt about what I am describing. It
will be worse than I am describing because the magnetic field of
the Earth is now so weak that it can be easily overpowered.
In The Sixties and The Seventies from the last century, you could
read in the popular scientific magazines and even in the real
scientific magazines that the North Pole changes in the South
Pole on the Earth every 11,500 years because they found core
reversal dates.
Now, what they knew has disappeared, that knowledge. I don’t
know why. Then they changed their mind and they said: No, it
happens every 250,000 years or every 500,000 years.
So they are just completely wrong. I don’t know why they
changed their minds, but the data are still there. If you look in the
scientific magazines from the last century, you can find them.
And they are described in the book Not by Fire, But by Ice...
BR: By Robert Felix.
PG: Robert Felix, and he describes the articles where you can
find them. So he has also a new book out about what is going to
happen, and he also says that we can be destroyed every moment
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
by a new Ice Age, but he doesn’t know the principle of a Pole
shift.
BR: I have to say that I think at this point we have to talk about
the message that we got from this person whose name we can’t
release. This is quite interesting, Patrick. We need to tell you
about this.
In October 2007, we were contacted by somebody whose name
we recognized. It was just a little message. We often get them.
It’s like: I love your website; you’re doing good work.
PG: Yeah.
BR: We often get messages. I’m sure you get that, the same.
PG: No. No. I get bad messages. [laughter]
BR: I wonder why.
PG: You f****ed my life up! [laughs]
BR: Okay. Well, we got a nice message. It was just one line from
this guy and he signed his name. I recognized the name, but it
was quite a common name and I thought: Is this who I think it
might be? And this is somebody whose name you would
recognize, too. This is an American guy; he’s a very well-known
scientist.
And I wrote back to him saying: Are you who I think you are?
He wrote back and said: Well, actually, yes, I am, and he
confirmed who he was and in the meantime we checked out his
email address and his IP. This was the same guy.
I asked him: What do you know about what might be happening
in the next few years? Because that was a time, in October 2007,
[when] we were asking anybody that question if they knew
something; we were starting to get really interested.
And he said: I have got some bad news and I don’t like to be
somebody who communicates bad news, but I can tell you this.
He said there will be three events: a coronal mass ejection, a
magnetic pole reversal, and then, finally, a Pole shift. He said
that. That’s what he said.
PG: He said that?
BR: That’s what he said.
KC: Yeah.
BR: One, two, three. He said that. And then he said: I’m sorry I
cannot say any more. He’s working with a Top Secret security
clearance for the Department of Homeland Security in America.
PG: Yeah?
BR: And what’s a rocket scientist doing working for the
Department of Homeland Security? This is a brilliant man.
317
He says he’s done the calculations and he said – his exact words
were: We’re going to be in for a very tough time, and then he
apologized for not being able to say more. He said that we were
the first people he had communicated with outside of the national
security community for several years.
Now, I thought he was talking about three separate events, and
now what I hear you saying is that these three things are inter-
related – Bang, bang, bang.
PG: Yes. Bang, bang, bang.
BR: And that’s making me feel very strange right now.
PG: Yeah. Right. I’m very surprised that he knows this because
this theory that I have discovered, I only published that in my
books.
KC: But your books would be read by these people. When did
you publish this?
PG: That is possible.
KC: When did you publish this, the first time?
PG: Yes, but then the theory was not final. In 2001 a brief
explanation of the sunspot cycle was in my book The Orion
Prophecy and then I think it... When was my book The World
Cataclysm...?
KC: Wasn’t that 2005?
PG: Something like that. Yes. I forgot. 2005, I think.
KC: I’ve had it for a couple of years.
PG: Yes.
BR: We had this email in October 2007. That’s just what we got.
Off record, maybe we can tell you who this person is, but to
protect him, it’s very, very important that we don’t tell his name.
PG: You don’t have t protect him anymore because I will be
explaining on History Channel and NBC the new theory about
sunspot cycle and everybody can take the theory from my
website.
KC: Is it possible they go down into the Labyrinth and that you
find out that there’s something different, there’s something
wrong with your theory?
PG: No, there is nothing wrong. The theory is absolutely right. It
has been proven right by one of the most brilliant mathematicians
in the world.
KC: You mean this sunspot...
PG: The Sunspot Cycle Theory that I discovered in the book of
The Dresden Codex of the Maya.
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KC: So you’re looking in the Labyrinth and you expect to get
some kind of validation for something in the Labyrinth that’s
going to validate your entire theory.
PG: Absolutely. We will find artifacts from the previous
civilization and we expect also to find things there that we don’t
believe they had.
BR: Okay.
KC: Do you have a name of that society that you think was the
original advanced civilization?
PG: Well, it is called Atlantis; the Atlanteans.
KC: So you think it’s Atlantis, that information in the Labyrinth.
PG: Yes. Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis). Translated by Albert
Slosman.
BR: And just out of interest, curiosity, where do you believe that
was?
PG: I believe the South Pole.
BR: Oh, really?
PG: Yes. And that it went in one day under the ice.
BR: That’s what Rand Flem-Ath and Colin Wilson say.
PG: Yes, I believe that the theory is right because there is no
other explanation. It was never found, and if you say that it went
under the ice, then that gives a complete explanation.
BR: Now what Paul LaViolette says, and I don’t have the
information myself. We asked him the same question. He says
that the ice core samples from the South Pole are continuous,
there’s no period when there wasn’t any ice. Is that correct?
PG: No, no, no. His data is not so good. You have to read the
book from Robert Felix better, and there are now new data from
Greenland that confirms the Ice Ages.
BR: Okay. Which book by Robert Felix? Not by Fire, But by Ice?
PG: The two. You have to read both of them. Yes. Okay?
Also, because of the shifting of the Earth, there is no consistency
in all the ice core data. Because 11,500 years [ago] a part of the
South Pole was not under ice and a part was under the ice.
So you have to look at the part that was covered under the ice
13,000 years ago. You see? Because otherwise there are
differences. If you have now a place...
BR: Explain that again because I didn’t understand that, I’m
sorry.
318
PG: You have the South Pole and it is free of ice?
BR: Right.
PG: Now, the South Pole is near the equator and it goes down in
one day under the ice and the part that was not covered by ice
will be covered by ice, but you won’t find in that part previous
Ice Ages. You understand? Because it is new ice. It is after the
cataclysm.
BR: Okay. So let me check what I think you’re saying. You’re
saying that the discontinuity in the formation of the layers of ice
wouldn’t actually be visible.
PG: Yes. It’s not. If you have the part from Antarctica that was
once 11,000 - 12,000 years ago ice free, then the ice is new.
There is only data till 11,800 years ago.
BR: Okay.
PG: And if you think that the ice is laying there for hundreds of
thousands of years then you make a fault and you can’t say
something right about that data.
BR: I understand. It would be very interesting to talk to the two
of you together, I must say.
PG: You have to go to further away, to Antarctica, or you have to
put the data from Greenland because Greenland didn’t move that
much, and the ice core data from Greenland that were released a
few months ago, they are exactly.
BR: Okay. Now, I don’t understand how some of the tectonic
plates – you’re talking about the tectonic plates moving – how
some of the tectonic plates can move a lot and some not at all.
Surely it’s all going to move.
PG: No. It’s all going to move. You have to just take the peel of
an orange, unbound it, and that is what will happen. But when
will the crust move, so, this way? That’s only possible at the
moment that the Earth stops rotating, because you have at the
equator a bulge. By the movement of the Earth, there’s a bulge on
the equator.
Now, at the moment that the inner core is almost upside-down,
then the rotation of the Earth stops. At the moment that the
rotation of the Earth stops, the bulge disappears. Then the crust
can slide easily over.
But then the rotation starts again, because it goes the other way
around, and the bulge appears again and stops the crust slide.
That is why you have an inner core movement of 180 degrees and
only 30 degrees from the crust.
BR: Okay. So you know about the Law of Conservation of
Angular Momentum.
PG: Yes.
BR: So what you’re saying is that angular momentum here
actually is conserved because the total energy in the system stays
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the same, although there are all these changes happening -- is that
right?
PG: Yeah. There doesn’t much happen in the energy, but you
have to understand that the crust is only 60 to 120 kilometers
thick and that is the only movement.
So the biggest part of the Earth is going just upside-down and
that doesn’t need a lot of energy because now the scientists say:
Look, the rotation of the Earth, reversal is totally impossible. You
need too much energy for that.
And I say: Look, no, you are wrong. It’s an upside-down
movement of the Earth that doesn’t take that much energy. It’s
only the crust that gives the final rotation reversal.
KC: Okay. I have a few questions.
BR: It’s a crustal displacement.
PG: It’s a crustal displacement and a crustal rotation movement.
KC: Okay. But if you’re saying that this crust is going to move
and you said you had to be 100 kilometers below the surface?
PG: No, no. The crust is only 60 to 120 kilometers. If you go
down 60 or 100 kilometers then you have lava.
BR: It’s all floating about on a kind of liquid, like the skim on
milk.
PG: Yeah.
KC: Is it possible they’re building cities down there?
PG: No. You have lava, [laughs] so deep, it’s impossible. You
have lava there. It’s too warm. If you go to South Africa and you
are in the gold mines, I think it’s incredibly hot at three kilometer
depth. It’s incredibly hot.
BR: Yep. It’s very hot.
PG: It’s very, very hot and if you go still deeper down, it’s
impossible. You need a large amount of cooling to stay there.
BR: Yeah.
KC: And what about the activity on the Moon and the rest of the
planets? If the Sun is going through this reversal, what happens to
the rest of the planets?
PG: You will have... there is frozen water on Mars, and then that
will be, because Mars has no atmosphere, so the tidal wave from
the Sun will release far more energy than on the Earth, so the
frozen water on Mars will be liquid and there will be streams of
water on Mars from water that will be larger than on the Earth.
BR: And of course on Mars it looks like this has happened
before, because there are huge canyons there.
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PG: Yes, because more than ten years ago, you could read in the
scientific magazines that they thought they had strong evidence
that there were streams on Mars only twelve thousand years ago.
Because they saw stream patterns – that’s with almost no hits
from meteorites – and that is why they said this looks only
12,000 years old, but nobody has an explanation.
BR: Yep. That’s true.
KC: Okay, but you’re saying 12,000 and then you said 11,500...
PG: It’s “about” – plus / minus – because now it has taken 11,800
years between the previous cycle and the next cycle, and before
that it was 11,500 years. Now, the larger the amount of time
between the cycles, the larger the release of the energy of the
Sun, so this destruction will be larger than the previous one.
KC: I see. And you’re convinced that it’s going to happen around
11,800 years, not 12,000.
PG: No. There are smaller cycles and there are larger cycles. So
in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, it is described that there were
three destructions the last 40,000 years.
KC: But there’s also the thing about how you calculate when
2012 or when this time period that ends with the Mayan
Calendar, etcetera. It’s not necessarily our year 2012 because the
way we’ve counted years have changed.
PG: No, no. In the Book of the Dead there is also a star code.
That code is connected to the year of the previous cataclysm and
in the previous cataclysm Venus made a retrograde loop above
Orion near the Twins.
I’ve written that in my book how we discovered that, and there’s
also stated that if the code comes back then it is the year of the
next cataclysm.
BR: And there’s a Chinese...
KC: But the goat, we’re talking the year of Capricorn. Right?
PG: No, no. The code will appear again in 2012; Venus will
make a loop above Orion. But it is a complicated code because
you have also to look at the precession, and the precession from
the last cataclysm is the same like the precession in 2012, plus or
minus 50 years.
But there is more proof that the year 2012 is right. Not only the
Venus code gives it, but there are other codes that are hidden in
the countdown that give the year 2012.
BR: Didn’t the Chinese have a story in their mythology that there
was a time when the Sun went backwards in the sky?
PG: Yeah. Not only the Chinese, but others also, and that is
because of the reversal of the rotation of the Earth. Now, the
Egyptians, they are saying – Herodotus wrote about that – that in
the Egyptian history the Sun came up where it now goes down.
BR: Okay.
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KC: Yes.
PG: So now, you don’t have that only in the Egyptians. I get
several emails from guys from the Islam and they say: Look, what
you have discovered is in Islam.
And I said: Oh, I know it already because a lot of people mailed
that to me. At the end of times, it’s written down in the Islam, the
Earth will shiver terribly.
BR: That’s what it says in Revelations. It’s the same thing, isn’t
it?
PG: Yes, it’s the same, but they say it also in Islam... it will
shiver terribly. Then you have only a very short time left for your
sins because once the Sun comes up where it now goes down,
that is written in the Islam, then you don’t have time to ask
permission for your sins to be released, or something like that.
KC: What about the position of the Giza Pyramid? Are you
dating the Giza Pyramid back earlier than originally thought?
PG: The base of the big Pyramid is older than what it is based
and now they say it is about 5,000 years old. No, the pyramids,
what is official there...
BR: I think it’s...
PG: Is it 4,500?
BR: It’s about 4,500 BC.
PG: No, no.
BR: No, I'm sorry, 4,500 years old. That's the official dating.
PG: Now, Albert Slosman translated 5,500 years old, so a
thousand years older.
KC: Okay. But my understanding was that the orientation of the
Pyramid changed.
PG: No, no. It didn’t change. It has to do with the precession,
so...
KC: So you’re saying that the precession of the equinoxes
changed, not the position of the Pyramid on the Earth.
PG: No. It doesn’t...
KC: What about Stonehenge? Did you look at that at all?
PG: No. I didn’t look at Stonehenge. My research was basically
Egypt and the Dresden Codex of the Maya. Also, to connect all
the dots with what I’ve written about unexplained mysteries like
Ice Ages, and so [on], and how you can connect that all together.
BR: What are you planning to do, personally, in the next few
years?
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PG: We have a survival group and we are working now with
several members of that survival group. We’ve visited South
Africa and we will visit Namibia and Tanzania and the Sierra
Nevada [in Spain] to look if we have some places where we can
build bunkers.
BR: South America?
PG: South America, no, because it’s too dangerous because it
will move too much and there are too many volcanoes there. So
South America and North America -- we won’t do anything
there.
KC: But are you looking only above, what are you saying, 2,000
meters?
PG: Two thousand meters, yes.
KC: Even in Africa?
PG: Even in Africa, yes. But the biggest problem everywhere in
the world is that above 2,000 meters, most of it is natural parks,
everywhere in the whole world, so that complicates our problem
a lot because otherwise, it would be easy.
Look, you have the Kingdom of Lesotho in South Africa. It’s
very high and the problem is you can’t buy land there and you
can’t do anything there. So the best place in the whole world is
Lesotho and you can’t do anything there.
BR: Botswana?
PG: No.
BR: No?
PG: It’s not high enough, I think.
BR: Okay. But the impact of a huge tidal wave is actually less as
you go inland, so for example, in Europe, Switzerland...
PG: No, no. This is a reversal of the rotation of the Earth and
according to old manuscripts, it went three times around the
world. So the speed difference is 3,000 kilometers an hour. Now,
the Earth is 40,000 kilometers at the equator. So in 13 hours, it
goes around the world.
BR: But you’re still going to get a wave just like a wave on the
beach as it goes in it's going to...
PG: NO.
BR: No? Because the energy is going to dissipate.
PG: It dissipates but it takes some time, and according to old
manuscripts, the last waves are the largest. Don’t know why.
BR: Okay.
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KC: So, let’s talk about your website for the people so that they
can reference the things you are referring to. And your website
is...
PG: How To Survive 2012 dot com.
[ http://www.howtosurvive2012.com/htm_night/home.htm ]
KC: [laughs] Okay.
BR: [laughs] That’s very simple.
PG: [laughs] Yeah. That's simple.
KC: And you say you have a link there to the Labyrinth
information?
PG: Yes, if you go to the Labyrinth, you have Egypt. Then you
have a link there to the website of my friend, Louis de Cordier,
who paid for the scanning of the Labyrinth.
Unfortunately the results are removed -- but you can find all the
information there -- because the results had to be removed, from
Dr. Hawass.
KC: Okay, because he asked you to remove them.
PG: Yes, otherwise we weren’t allowed to enter Egypt.
KC: I see. So you are going back in November to re-scan it?
PG: No, no, no. In November, NBC will release that the
Labyrinth has been found. [laughs]
KC: Okay, they’re releasing that the Labyrinth has been found.
Have they gone and filmed it? Were you part of the filming?
PG: No, no. I wasn’t part but a team from NBC went in, I think in
March, to Egypt and they filmed there [with] Dr. Hawass about a
connection between 2012 and the Labyrinth. He will say, of
course, that he doesn’t believe in that. Then they interviewed Dr.
Abbas, who did the scanning, and he says the Labyrinth is there.
BR: Why is it taking so long for them to release it? You’d think
that it could be out earlier than that.
PG: They are waiting for the excavations.
BR: Okay, right.
KC: So is the water being drained by November?
PG: No, no. The water will be drained next year [2010] because
they are now making pipes there for the canal to be in a pipe and
then also they are building pumps and so [on] to pump the water
out. But that will take a year.
BR: That’s a pretty big job.
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PG: It’s a very big job and very costly.
BR: Yes, and they’ve got to do it right.
PG: Yes, they’ve got to do it right. We hope they don’t stop it
because of the connection with 2012, because they stopped the
excavations from my Polish friends a few months ago.
BR: There must be governments of the world who will be... I
mean, even if they don’t know, the intelligence agencies, the
militaries of the world must be aware of this information. It’s
their job to find this information.
PG: No. No. Absolutely not. Nobody believes it, because they
don’t know...
It’s the same like I was saying 30 years ago in my book. I said the
universe is expanding with an acceleration. Nobody believed it.
Then eleven years ago they published it by themselves: The
universe is expanding with an acceleration, and they reversed
their standpoint completely. They said the opposite from what
they were saying previously.
Now, I think they will reverse their standpoint because of what I
found with the Sunspot Cycle Theory. It’s on my website and I
have an updated version and if there is a good mathematician or a
solar scientist, he can ask it to me and he will be baffled with
what I’ve found, because what I found is so complicated that,
well, it has to be true.
KC: Okay, but do you have a background as a mathematician?
PG: Not really, and therefore it took me years to find it! [laughs]
But is has been found true now by a mathematician. So I am
working on it and it’s possible that a mathematician from a
university says that it is right and that he can get it published.
No, no. He already said it is right but it’s now the problem to get
it published and to work on it. Because you can’t publish a basic
theory; you have to use advanced mathematicians to do it, and
that is now the second part we are working on.
KC: Okay. Would you say around the world you have any
support out there with scientists besides this particular
mathematician?
PG: There are a few people that believe that an Ice Age can
happen every moment, but that’s it.
KC: But what about the reversal of the Sun?
PG: No. Nobody believes that.
KC: Nobody?
PG: Nobody believes that, nobody. I’m the only one who is
saying that, and I am the only one in the whole world who knows
exactly what is going to happen.
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KC: [laughs] Okay... well, this is very extraordinary.
PG: Yes. It’s the same like... It’s a pity that my book about the
theory of the universe never was published in English, otherwise
you would have known about it much earlier.
BR: But your website is in English.
PG: My website is in English because I said: Look, I made a fault
by not publishing in English, so I can’t make the same fault again
for the end of the world.
Look, my book was translated in English in 1997 and then I had
to look for a publisher and I didn’t find one. Nobody wanted to
publish it until in 2000 I came in Brussels in an English
bookstore that is there, Waterstones, and they had the book about
maps of the ancient Sea Kings, the same writer like that wrote
about the Pole shifts...
BR: Charles Hapgood.
PG: Charles Hapgood. Then I wrote to the publisher of that and it
was David Hatcher Childress in the United States.
BR: Oh yeah. Right.
PG: Right. And I asked him: Look, do you want to publish my
book?
And he said: If you pay for it, and: I will be in Amsterdam in a
few months. Come to me and speak to me.
And I went to him and I said: Okay. It’s okay. I will pay for the
publication of my book, so that started everything.
KC: Have you sold a lot of books?
PG: The Orion Prophecy I believe is now around 30,000 in
English, but in Polish, because I had several documentaries in
Polish, I sold 50,000 copies from my three books in Polish.
KC: Uh-huh. What is your native language?
PG: Dutch.
KC: Dutch.
PG: Yes.
KC: Do you speak Polish?
PG: No, absolutely not. [laughs] I don’t understand anything.
[laughter]
KC: There is just a special interest in Poland for your work?
PG: No. A few years... how long is it ago? I think six years ago a
Polish man read my book in Polish – because The Orion
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Prophecy was rather quickly translated in Polish – and he said:
Look, nobody believes you, I think.
I said: Yeah, that is true.
I will help you to find the Labyrinth in Egypt.
I said: Okay. Then he came to Belgium a few months later and
we talked with each other. That is the guy who made connection
with the department of astronomy and geophysics in Egypt. They
scanned the Giza Plateau in 2006, and with that connection, I was
able to scan the Labyrinth.
KC: Okay. Prior to that were there any theories about where the
Labyrinth was? Were you the first one to initiate this?
PG: No, no. The archaeologists already said that, according to
what they thought, the Labyrinth should be in Hawara. But there
were no excavations and they thought it was completely
destroyed.
And I said: Completely destroyed? Such a large building? That is
impossible. It still has to be there. And we were the first to scan
it.
KC: Are there any pyramids as part of the Labyrinth?
PG: There is a pyramid standing near the Labyrinth, but it is
mainly collapsed because it is made... the upper level of brick
stones, but the under level is in stone and granite as we can see.
There is a connection with the Labyrinth and that was described
by Herodotus, so the Labyrinth should be there. It is there.
BR: That’s a fascinating story.
PG: Yes.
KC: Herodotus wrote in Greek or in Latin?
BR: In Greek.
PG: In Greek. I was a few years ago in Turkey, Bodrum, it is
called. It’s a very famous, like Cannes – like Cannes from Turkey
– and he lived there. He was born there, but that was ancient
Greece.
KC: Yes. Okay. I understand.
BR: He was a famous historian. He was very reliable. He was a
scholar.
PG: Yes.
KC: Do you read Greek?
PG: No.
KC: So you had to read a translation.
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PG: It was a translation, yes. KC: Okay. But do you think they’ll release it? In other words, I
know they’re going to talk about it in November [of 2009], and
KC: Was it accurate, do you feel? NBC is going to, but they don’t usually release a lot of
information to the public.
PG: Well, you have translations in English and in Dutch, so... It
was a new translation in Dutch. So what do you think? Is there a possibility that because your
theory might be true they might actually withhold this
information?
KC: I see.
PG: I don’t know what will happen. It depends from what the
BR: He’s been very well translated. His work isn’t disputed at all. media will do with it. The Belgian press published about my
theories but there was not that many response because of the
KC: I just wondered. opposition of the scientists. Because I was on TV, and afterward
they give scientists, but these scientists are all wrong.
BR: And he was... the Greeks were very methodical and
meticulous. They were academics. They took pride in their Now, because they didn’t know the latest data from the NASA.
scholarship. In 2008, in December, NASA published that they found a new
theory about the protection of the Earth.
Plato was another one. He was right about everything and why
should people say that he was wrong about Atlantis? If a wave from the Sun with a northern polarity hits the Earth
first, then the southern polarity field of the Earth is totally
PG: Yeah. unprotected. The scientists from NASA wrote on their website:
This is the same as saying that the Sun will come up in the west.

KC: But Plato did say Atlantis was...

Now, if you connect the dots, this explains why the Sun will
come up in the west because if you have a follow-up big wave
BR: I understand that Herodotus was particularly interested in with southern polarity, then everything will happen what I
Egyptian history. Isn’t that right? explained.

PG: Yes, he was very good. There is another theory from NASA that there will be a huge
activity of the Sun in 2012. That is enough. It is coming from
KC: But Plato was, apparently, if you follow your theories, Plato NASA. It’s not coming from me. [laughter] I’m not saying that.
was wrong about the location of Atlantis. NASA is saying that.

PG: No, no. Absolutely not. KC: That’s right. Yes. Solar Cycle 24.

KC: Plato said south of the equator? BR: They were saying that a couple years ago.

PG: Yes, but everybody misinterpreted what he said. PG: Yeah. But expect now that NASA will say: No, no. Nothing
will happen in 2012, after the movie and all the things, or I don’t
know what will happen.
KC: It’s Antarctica.

KC: But you’re telling us that you’ve been, I don’t know, were
BR: All that Plato said was that is was beyond the Pillars of
you just interviewed by History Channel?
Hercules and what that means is that it was outside of the
Mediterranean.
PG: History Channel, NBC. Yes.
PG: Yes.
KC: NBC. Okay. And they will release that interview when?
BR: And that also applies to...
PG: I don’t know.
PG: Also to Antarctica. Yes.
KC: You don’t know.
BR: So he wasn’t wrong about that. Most people think that that
means in the middle of the Atlantic. Of course, some people still PG: NBC in November [of 2009].
do think that and that’s a whole other discussion.
BR: Do you have an exact date for it?
PG: Most of them think it. There are thousands of places that
they think where Atlantis could be. So only a few people think PG: No, just prior to the movie.
Antarctica. We will find that in the Labyrinth.
KC: Prior to the movie. What movie?
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PG: The 2012 movie. KC: Well, certainly the destruction of civilization is quite
spectacular, regardless of how Hollywood makes it, right?
KC: Oh yeah?
PG: Right.
PG: Yes. That is about the Pole shift, the destruction of
everything. KC: Well, Patrick Geryl, thank you very much.

KC: So they interviewed you in association with that movie. PG: Okay.

PG: Yes. SONY Pictures interviewed me also and they said that
they will release a part of that interview just before the movie
starts.
KC: And did the filmmakers read your work and were they
influenced by you?
PG: I am absolutely sure about that because my book The Orion
Prophecy was published in 2001 and there’s only one guy in the
whole world that wrote about a Pole shift in 2012 and that is me.
KC: It’s been a pleasure. You’re very eloquent. Your theories are
very, [laughs] very dire, but we’ll see what happens, won’t we?
BR: I think at the beginning, you used the word apocalyptic and
that’s a good word to use.
PG: Yeah. Apocalyptic.
BR: I’d like to thank you, too. It's interesting stuff, actually. I had
not read your book and I will now do so. Absolutely.

KC: Ah. PG: Yeah. Right, and then you will know everything and you will
see that it is far more dire than I explained.
BR: At that time.
BR: Okay and then I’m going to quit work and just start partying.
PG: No. At the moment you can’t find any book that is similar [laughs]
like mine that describes what will happen. Nothing. I’m the only
one. So it has to be based on my book because it is also in the PG: That’s the best thing you can do. That’s the best thing you
movie he says about unsinkable boats. I wrote about an can do.
unsinkable boat in my book also, and about the Pole shift.
[laughs]
KC: Thank you very much.
So, he made several faults in his movie. Of course, it’s a movie,
it’s a Hollywood movie; it has to be spectacular, of course; so,
okay.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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In 2012 the next polar reversal will take place on earth. This
means that the North Pole will be changed into the South Pole.
Scientifically this can only be explained by the fact that the earth
will start rotating in the opposite direction, together with a huge
disaster of unknown proportions.

Immense earthquakes and kilometers-high tidal waves will

torment the surface of the earth. At the same time a pole shift will
occur. In just a couple of hours the earth's crust will shift
thousands of kilometers. In this short period the United States
and Europe will be completely destroyed.

Billions of casualties will occur worldwide; only a few human

beings will have a chance to survive. These are the horrible facts.
But how do you survive this "Armageddon", this ultimate "End
of Times" scenario?

Everybody will ask this question. This shocking book will give
The magnetic field during the reversal
you the answers, and they are not very encouraging: those who
do not prepare themselves will die in a terrible way. When you
do prepare yourself, your survival chances will quickly rise. The
problems we will have to overcome are immense, but not
insurmountable.

I wrote this book because I want to be one of the survivors. It is a

blueprint for all of you who want to re-live the story of Noah. I
explain thoroughly all the problems we are going to encounter
and which precautions we need to take. I expect to inspire enough
people so that together we can resume life on earth in a new
civilization.

The magnetic field after the reversal

The description of Herodotus

The magnetic field before the reversal

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"...Herodotus is my name, I am from walls which are covered with relief-figures. Each
Halikarnassos and am now telling the world courtyard is surrounded with a row of white
about the research I did to keep the memory of marble, seamless columns."
the past alive and to immortalize the great,
Good God, I groaned. What luxury! And
impressive works of the Greeks and other
nowhere is mentioned that it had been
people."
plundered or demolished! But then where was
"...As a token of their unanimity they decided to this monumental labyrinth, with the tombs of the
leave a memorial and that led to the building of twelve kings? Undoubtedly, there must be the
the labyrinth, which is situated not far from the biggest treasures ever to be found in Egypt!
southern bank of the Moiris lake, in the Tutankhamen's treasury is nothing compared to
neighborhood of a place called Crocodilopolis. I this.
have been there and it is beyond all description.
If you would make a survey of all city walls and With burning head, I read on:
public buildings in Greece, you will see that all
together they did not ask so much effort nor
money as this labyrinth. And the temples in
Efesse and Samos aren't exactly nothing either!
It is true, the pyramids make you speechless
and each and everyone of them equals many of
our Greek buildings, but they cannot stand
comparison with the labyrinth."
"...To start, it has a dozen indoor gardens of
which six on a row at the northern side and six
at the southern side. They are built in such a
manner that their portals are face to face. An
exterior wall without openings surrounds the
entire complex. The building itself is a two-
storied one and has three-thousand chambers
of which half of these are underground and the "...Right by the corner where the labyrinth stops,
other fifteen-hundred are on the ground floor." stands a pyramid of at least seventy-five meters
high and decorated with a relief of large animal
figures.

It can be reached through an underground passage.

I had to stop reading. Three-thousand rooms with indoor gardens
and one single ring wall encircling the building. More gigantic
than this is not possible! Half of the rooms are above and the But, however spectacular this labyrinth is, the lake Moiris, right
other half under ground. Imagine rooms with a length of only two next to it, makes one really gasp.
meters, then the total length would be three kilometers! That gave
me dizzy-spells. This had to be the largest building ever! No Its perimeter is 3600 stadiums or sixty schoinoi - 666 kilometers -
doubt about it. Why wasn't it known better? Could it be vanished as long as the entire Egyptian coastline. This long-drawn-out lake
from the earth? It was still there in 448 BC. Has it been taken has a north-south orientation and its depth is more than ninety
apart since then and used for other buildings? meters at its deepest. It is probably man-made because in the
middle are two pyramids, each reaching ninety meters above the
"... I visited and looked at the fifteen-hundred water, while their base is equally far under water.
ground-floor chambers myself, so I speak from
personal experience, but for the underground The lake is not getting water from natural sources, that would be
chambers I have to rely on the authority of impossible because the surrounding country is bone-dry; no, a
others, because the Egyptians refused to let me canal is its connection to the Nile. Through the canal the water
in. There, the tombs can be found of the kings flows into the lake during half a year and the other six months it
that originally built the labyrinth, and of the holy flows back into the river again. The profit for the royal treasury
crocodiles. So I have not been there and during this period is at least one silver talent per day because of
everything I know about it, I know from hearsay. the fish that are caught there."
The rooms on top of them have indeed been
shown to me. You would not believe they were
built by human hands. The passages
interconnecting the chambers and the winding
paths from court to court were breathtaking in
their colorful variety, as I walked in full
admiration from the courtyard to the chambers,
from the chambers to the colonnades, from the
colonnades to again other chambers and from
there into still more courtyards. The ceiling of all
these places where made of stone, just as the

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Star Signs and the Labyrinth

by Patrick Geryl and Gino Ratinckx

called Lepsius. He claimed the labyrinth was like a collapsed

ruin.

This being too much of a coincidence, we decided to leave for

Egypt. We took a GPS (Ground Positioning System) to exactly
determine the position of the temples and pyramids.

Patrick Geryl : - author and researcher

Gino Ratinckx : - archeo-astronomer

Patrick and Gino have established the exact location of the

famous labyrinth built by the ancient Egyptians. This temple is
probably the largest man-made monument ever constructed and is
reputed to contain a wealth of information and astronomical
knowledge of the Old Egyptians. The authors prove their points
with extensive scientific and archeological research. The
excavation of this time-capsule will have enormous archeological
Gino stands next to three buried columns. In the background is the
and historical implications... pyramid of Hawara symbolizing the star Aldebaran in the
constellation Taurus
In September 1996, I first read about the labyrinth in a French
translation of "The Book of the Dead". The author, Albert THE LABYRINTH: Superbuilding from the Old Egyptians
Slosman, had deciphered old manuscripts in which he had read
that the Egyptians had built an enormous building. This is also
where the biggest treasures of all times would be.

The Greek Historiographer Herodotus was amazed when he saw

the huge labyrinth in the fifth century before Christ. It was the
administrative and astronomical center of Egypt, had 2 floors,
3000 rooms and probably a diameter of more than a kilometer.

For centuries, scientists and adventurers have searched for the

labyrinth without success. But with his knowledge of astronomy,
Gino discovered a correlation between the Milky Way and the
Nile. He immediately saw that the temple of Dendera had to
correspond with the star Deneb in the constellation Cygnus.

One of the turns in the Nile in the area of Dendera even

corresponds exactly with the Milky Way. He further postulated
that the labyrinth had to have a heavenly counterpart: no doubt
these were the Hyades because they formed a labyrinth of stars.

Going from the pyramids that symbolize Orion, the labyrinth then
had to be located in Hawara. To our amazement the labyrinth had
been discovered on the location we had indicated! The Many are searching a 'Hall of Records' at Giza or not far from it.
excavations had been done 160 years previous by a German Either beneath the Great Sphinx or under the Great Pyramid itself
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is concealed a 'Hall of Records' in which is preserved the entire
knowledge of a lost civilization. In it you can find the secrets of
all profound science (knowledge of all history and astronomy,
maps of the earth, etc.). But is it? Is this the right place to look at?
Not according to old manuscripts. Thirty years ago the French
Egyptologist Albert Slosman translated that the 'Hall of Records'
is in the Labyrinth!
When putting the map of the Nile alongside the map of the Milky
Way there clearly is a visual resemblance. Several important stars
from the Milky Way correspond with places where temples and
pyramids have been built. The data came from the astronomical
center. The Old Egyptians kept there the positions of stars and
planets. Together, these data formed specific geometrical
combinations of which the major harmonic laws were deduced.
Diodorus of Sicily confirms this search for living in harmony on
earth with the consent of the heavens.
The following is written in chapter 89 of his first book:
"Nowhere else can be found such an exact
observation of the positions and the movements
of stars and planets as with the Egyptians. They
possess all observations, which they made year
after year, going back to incredible ancient
times!"
This confirms the highpriests being "Masters of Mathematics and
Numbers", and this from time immemorial. With these
astronomical data and based on their "Mathematical Celestial
Combinations", they were able to make predictions on planetary
movement, their rotation time and many other stellar phenomena,
and all this without effort.
The story starts thousands of years ago. Exhausted from a war
which had lasted for millennia it was decided to unite the
followers of Seth and Horus. It was then that was decided to built
an astronomical center.The construction took 365 years (from
4608 - 4243 BC). On the day that God had predestined for this
event, Athothis would officially declare the unification of Egypt.
Some research tells us that the first day of Thot was 19 July 4243
BC. From then on, the Sothic era began, in addition to the
classical Egyptian calendar.
Undoubtedly there was a deeper significance in all this. This was
not only the celebration of the unification, but also of certain
cycles of sun, moon and stars.
Next to these two calendars they also used a moon-calendar,
counting alternately 29 and 30 days, and fitting in a cycle of
precisely 25 years of 365 days. The French researcher Schwaller
de Lubicz noted that this time span matched 309 moon-periods.
He calculated;
25 x 365 = 9125 days 9125 / 309 = 29.5307 days per moon-
period.
This result is of extreme accuracy.
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The modern astronomy uses a moon period of 29.53059 days, a
difference of only one second! This Egyptian calendar can be
considered - and rightly so - as a wonder of precision.
Let's return now to the unification of Egypt. At the bank of the
Nile a public worship took place. Two highpriests addressed the
Nile and spoke:
"Your Heavenly sources enable us to live,
because they allow our lands to be flooded
every year." To the public they said: "From now
on you will live in harmony with God's laws and
orders, because they will grand you life on earth
as well as in heaven. Fertilize the earth for your
work and in turn it will provide you with cereals!"
To the heads of both fractions they swore:
"Your authority remains the symbol of all your
actions because the way you govern will
determine the happiness of your people."
With their hands raised to heaven, they spoke to God:
"Oh Lord of eternity, You who knows everything!
May your law and orders rule from this day on
and may our lives be trouble-free. May our
children follow our example. May Your heavenly
wisdom, which You offered us by means of the
"Mathematical Celestial Combinations", fill us all
and inspire us to restrain from evil actions which
could provoke your anger."
It was after this memorable day that the construction of a large
astronomic center began. Its name was "Circle of Gold" and it
contained two temples:
"The Double House of Life" and "The Temple of
the Lady from Heaven: Isis".
Two different schools were in it: those studying the nightly
firmament and reproducing it on earth; and others preferring a
more mathematical study, where everything was theoretical,
without watching the sky.
This given, they possessed an incredible amount of possible
combinations in relation to the sun, planets and stars of the
zodiac. Because the Egyptians divided the twelve constellations
of the zodiac into three, this gives us thirty-six possibilities.
When multiplying the planets with this number it gives 7 x 36 =
252. Once more multiplied with twelve it gives 252 x 12 = 3024.
That's how many chambers this building had!
Herodotus had seen the upper part of it and written about it in his
book.
Facts about the Labyrinth
Although nobody has ever heard of it, this Labyrinth is indeed the
largest building ever made by humanity. Superlatives are lacking
to describe it, but let me give you an example:
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it contains the "Circle of Gold", a legendary room
to which the Egyptian Book of the Dead refers. It
is made of granite and covered with gold. Inside
there are documents about the history of Egypt,
and the astronomical knowledge of their
civilization. It was gigantic in size, and therefore
its construction took many years. They worked
with might and main on "The Double House" of
the "Mathematical Celestial Combinations" for
365 years (from 4608 until 4243 BC).
Comparison: the biggest pyramid was built in about twenty
years!
Shall we be able to dig up in time the necessary knowledge from the
Labyrinth?
The Hall of Records and the Labyrinth
by Patrick Geryl and Gino Ratinckx
Imagine, the largest dilemma of all times: the quest for a lost
civilization.
Nobody knows where to look for it, only you know where.
However, this is not all. The scientists and artists belonging to
this civilization have disappeared, and they left a crucial
message. A message about an imminent catastrophe that will
destroy the whole earth within several years.
Of that you are totally convinced, because you were able to
decipher crucial codes. Codes containing items they could not
possibly have known unless they had a highly advanced
knowledge of astronomy.
This is piled up in a "Hall of Records". According to our findings
this "Hall of Records" is in the Labyrinth at Hawara. The
Egyptian name for this gigantic complex is: The Double House of
Life from the "Mathematical Celestial Combinations".
Where you can find this gargantuan building, you can read in my
previous article.
In it you can find the secrets of all profound science and the
entire knowledge and wisdom of a lost civilisation (knowledge of
history and astronomy, maps of the earth, etceteras). Ancient
Egyptian Papyri make tantalizing statements about hidden
chambers - the Chamber of Archives, etceteras.
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Should you get lost in the building, you would encounter a sure
death, because many walls could move. One of the reasons which
made it a real Labyrinth! Old scriptures tell stories about people
who got lost and died of exhaustion.
Nobody knows how the present situation is, but considering the
superior building style of the Egyptians, we would surely be
surprised. Some rooms must be impressively large, with all
possible star constellations engraved on the walls or the ceiling.
So much for their constructive knowledge and ability.
Besides this, the practical astronomical knowledge of the
Egyptians is illustrated on long walls, and can be read in the
hieroglyphs. Amongst which the countdown from the previous
catastrophe to the one in 2012…
The Pole Catastrophe of Atlantis
The facts mentioned hereafter, have been translated from old
manuscripts by the Egyptologist Albert Slosman. In addition, his
findings on his unique deciphering of hieroglyphs inscribed on
temples. For these reasons you have to acknowledge the
following text to be true.
You are now going back to the year 21,312 BC, the year of a
shocking occurrence. In those days, Aha-Men-Ptah (Atlantis) had
a moderate climate. Vast forests covered the north of the country.
It snowed occasionally and ice was an almost unknown
phenomenon. In the south, excessive vegetation predominated the
whole year. Many extinct species of animals used to live here,
like gorillas without a flat nose, enormous but peaceful
mammoths, rhino’s four meters high with four toes and sabre-
toothed tigers.
On the southern end of this immense continent, you could mainly
see mountains and plains, which contained valuable treasures:
fertile lands producing their goods almost without any help. The
horizon was predominated by mountain chains. You could also
see a few pyramid-shaped cones of extinct volcanoes. They had
been inactive for such a long time that nobody could remember
their last eruptions. The inhabitants could imagine nothing but
green trees, some of which had lovely fruit they could eat during
all seasons. In short, the legendary paradise described in the Bible
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was located here. This story has simply been taken from Egyptian
history.
We shall sink again, just as Atlantis...
The Paradise Subjected to Huge Earthquakes
The inhabitants had knowledge of the earth’s movement around
the sun and the shifting of the zodiac. That is why they were able
to pass on to us what happened in those days. In less than one
hour a catastrophe took place. It did not involve a total reversing
like the one of 9792 BC, but a partial one. Not only the continent,
but also the whole earth was subjected to huge earthquakes. Then
the earth’s axis began to glide. Buildings collapsed, mountain
chains shook and crumbled, while it seemed that the world had
started to slip away. Before this event, the sun had risen in the
15th degree of Sagittarius.
After the elements had spent themselves away, the axis of the
earth had moved to the end of Aquarius! The movement of the
planet filled the seas with an enormous quantity of kinetic
energy. Uncontrollable water floods washed over large parts of
land. Atlantis sank below water level, and because of the shift of
the earth, it came to lie partially under, at that time, the North
Pole, and was covered with a thick layer of ice. As of that day,
the true history of Atlantis began. The few survivors regrouped in
the south, since the north had become uninhabitable. However,
although The Great North had vanished, Atlantis was still many
times bigger than Europe.
Deeply shocked, they decided to study the sky even more
accurately than before. They registered in detail a specific
interval of time. All movements and combinations of the sun, the
moon and the planets were most thoroughly noted down and
graphically reproduced on scrolls. In those days, they had no
television, radio, cinema or other possibility of relaxation.
Therefore, people had loads of time to gaze at the stars while
sitting by the ashes of a hot glowing campfire. A long time ago,
their ancestors had discovered figures in the sky. Some resembled
animals like for instance a bear, a bull, a horse, a lion, and
etceteras. They would argue over this for hours, until they could
agree to a mutual name.
Now specific attention was being paid to the movement of the
Zodiac. The slightest detail was intensively studied and
described. It could well be that in this the codes were hiding what
had led to the catastrophe. They saw that the stars and the sun
always rose in the west (nowadays this is in the east), so that the
stars needed one whole night to pass the sky. In addition, they
also noticed that different star signs were seen in different
seasons. It never happened that suddenly a new star sign would
330
show up in the west. Everything evidenced an order and
predictable regularity. It comforted them in the loss of all that had
died in the catastrophe.
As time went on, they discovered other stellar phenomena. Some
stars rose or sunk just before sunrise and the times and places
varied with the seasons. It was actually a rediscovery of what
their ancestors already had found out. However, with their
dedication and skill, they were eventually able to explore in depth
lots of celestial codes.
Furthermore, they researched the constellation of Orion and the
star Sirius with the utmost curiosity. When you call up on your
computer screen the starry sky after the catastrophe, you will see
this is quite logical. At that time, Orion ruled mainly over the
northern and the southern starry sky of the earth. Besides, it was
the clearest visible constellation. Sirius was in line with Orion
and the Zodiac and it is a big brilliant star. This is why they paid
so much attention to it.
After the catastrophe, life on this huge continent recuperated.
People discovered metal like iron, copper and lead and found out
how to exploit them. They made beautiful silver and gold
ornaments and they ascribed healing values to "precious" stones,
originating from the fluid of each of the twelve suns of the
Zodiac. As they progressed in getting more knowledge and in the
rational use of raw materials, they decided to build religious
buildings. This led to a super construction with a cross-section of
eight kilometers: "The Circle of Gold", which took them
hundreds of years to complete. In this indescribably gigantic
building the "Mathematical Celestial Combinations" were studied
by the "Experts of the Number", and all astronomical and other
observations were registered.
They studied the sun, the planets and the stars. They discovered
the laws of movement, gravity, cartography and of countless
other sciences. More than 15,000 years ago, they formulated the
world famous theorem of Pythagoras and developed mathematics
almost up to our present level. Finally, this led to the unveiling of
the biggest secret of sciences: the Sunspot Cycle Theory.
Through accurate deduction, they were able to calculate the
cycles beforehand. The critical issue was the magnetic fields of
the sun. When these fields reach a crucial point, they result in
enormous sun-outbursts that are capable to reverse the magnetic
field of the earth. With the aid of this knowledge, they could
calculate the exact date of a forthcoming “Great Cataclysm,”
which would completely destroy their country. Despite the fact
that this was solely announced at the royal palace, the news
spread like fire. Panic broke out, until the high priest stated the
date lay two thousand years ahead in the future.
The Zodiac of Dendera
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The Egyptian Labyrinth
If you knew that presently an identical copy of "The Circle of
Gold" remained at present underground in Egypt, it would be
reason enough to alert the most fanatic treasure diggers in the
world. However, they do not need to search anymore, because
Gino and I have found the location. Now we are only waiting for
sponsors to help us to dig up this unworldly monument in which
super secrets are hiding.
It is also known what we will discover there: Egyptian papyruses
announcing unbelievable things lying ahead of us. There are
some clues in several of Slosman’s books about the Labyrinth.
According to his decoding of the hieroglyphs, the archives talk
about a civilization with the same background and culture as the
Egyptians, as well as the same laws, art and diplomacy. Next to
this, the secret knowledge, hidden in their sacred texts, should not
be forgotten. Future priests were taught extensively about this. In
a period of four years, they had to struggle through forty-two
textbooks, originating from the Labyrinth.
The first two contain hymns worshipping Ptah and Ra. The
following two contain the chronicles of the Pharaohs, which go
back more than 30,000 years! These are exact, because they
coincide with the astral mathematical combinations of the
Zodiac. Then they had the "Books of the Four Times" about
astronomy, the first scriptures of which go back to their first
native country: Aha-Men-Ptah, a name that was later phonetically
changed into Atlantis.
The first of these writings discuss the astronomical past, the
second the period at that time and the future; the fourth is
completely dedicated to Ptah. Ten scriptures describe in detail the
traditional religion with its celebrations and ceremonies. Four
discuss the medical knowledge, the structure of the skeleton,
medical instruments and healing through plants. Ten books
contain laws, an unprecedented treasure full of secrets. Other
books discuss their escape of the previous catastrophe and their
flight to Ath-Ka-Ptah (Egypt). What else is there to find in this
"Circle of Gold"? More than you could ever imagine!
In the centre there is a circle depicting the zodiac of Dendera, in
which the twelve star signs represented in large scale. Ptah stands
in the central point and must have had a statue that is beyond any
description. Nut, the mother of Osiris, stands close by. In the
second circle there are more complex things to see. They
illustrated here the thirty-six elements that enabled them to
calculate the previous catastrophe in advance. This was of vital
importance. Without these calculations, nobody could have
survived that cataclysm, which had been many times bigger than
the one of 21,312 BC! Besides, their country had disappeared
completely under the South Pole (after the reversal of the poles).
Geb, the last ruler of Aha-Men-Ptah, who had died in the
previous catastrophe, is also depicted here. He carries on his head
the weight of the earth, which will resurrect through his wife Nut.
She could escape and set together with the survivors the basis of
the new native country. Without proper knowledge of this
mixture of historical and spiritual events, you cannot make a
reliable reconstruction of the history of Egypt. The Great Sphinx,
for instance, is depicted as a lion, because the previous
catastrophe took place in the Age of the Lion.
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In the zodiac of Dendera there are broken lines underneath the
lion, which symbolize a huge tidal wave.
The labyrinth also contains heaps of hieroglyphs about the
exodus to Egypt, and illustrations that point to a new Age, like
Taurus and Aries.
Furthermore, it shows an indescribable planisphere (a map of the
sky with two hemispheres) which depicts an innumerable amount
of stars. And most important of all: we can find the knowledge of
how to calculate a polar reversal! In short, the knowledge you can
find there overshadows any other archeological discovery.
Hopefully, we do not have to wait too long for this anymore.
The flood will destroy our whole civilization...
Worldwide Consequences
Right now, the digging up of the Labyrinth is most urgently
needed; otherwise, humanity will be in great danger. Twelve
thousand years ago a highly developed civilization ruled on this
planet. In those days, people had knowledge of space-geometry,
geology, mathematics and geography. They sailed the oceans and
had incredibly accurate calendars, the proof of which lies piled
up in the Labyrinth. The unveiling of this knowledge alone will
forever change the history of the earth.
Moreover, the evidence of where they found their knowledge and
wisdom to predict the destruction of the earth will be at our
disposal. At first, the idea that our civilization is threatened to be
wiped out by a gigantic geological disaster, will cause an
immense panic. However, quickly after this, worldwide
precautions will be taken to preserve the most precious and
important knowledge for the survivors of the catastrophe.
During my investigation, I was frequently astonished by the
highly evolved science of these ancient geniuses. On many issues
their science reached a much higher level than ours. They were
able to calculate beforehand exact orbits beyond four million
days long, something we have not mastered yet completely. From
numerous facts they distilled the final destruction of the earth.
They knew that an event like this repeats itself in cycles, and
therefore it became the basis of their whole religion.
I hope that by now everybody acknowledges that the revelation
of this astronomical center is of an extraordinary urgency. If we
do not start digging now, its mission to inform later generations
about this catastrophe will be lost forever. As has been repeatedly
mentioned before in this book, this disaster could mean the end of
humanity. I hope that there are enough reasonable human beings
in this world who will bring this digging quickly to a favorable
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end. Otherwise, the biggest catastrophe in history will wipe out
human traces forever.
"Orion" at Giza
How did the Egyptians leave evidence in 'rock' and 'script' to give
us a message about their own past? What does this have to do
about our own time period now?
Is this evidence all about a 'Record' of the History of Egypt Past?
Or is it about an attempt to 'reveal' a much deeper purpose?
How is this 'History' of Mankind a 'Record'?
Of 'evidence' to bring about a change for our future?One attempt
to answer these 'questions' might certainly appear 'within' the
'reasons' for the construction placement or location of the ancient
Temples and Pyramids at Giza.
A Special "Cannon" or Natural Law prevails
Throughout all types of Egyptian records And can be found Both
in their writings and in the methods of construction of their
Temples.
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This natural law known as "Harmonics" also known as 'vibration
/ frequency' is the answer to all of the 'secrets' of the 'Records' of
every 'Civilization' on this Earth in all time periods.
It is the very foundation to the 'Answer' of the systems in which
all peoples live and die.
This 'Natural Law' of the 'Universe' provides everyone through
out time Eternal with 'special' information about their own
"Origin".
The ancient Egyptian 'Historical' Record is simply 'One' type
method created by ancient 'Mankind' about itself that has been
left behind in 'sand' and 'stone' to give us a 'Truth' about very
special 'evidence' about 'Ourself' on this planet called 'Earth'.
If it is true that the Pyramids at 'Giza' make a 'glyph' symbolic of
the 'belt' stars of the 'Orion' star constellation, then the next step
is clear.
Use the 'Belt Star' Spiral geometry 'Within' the 'evidence' defined
on the ground at the Giza Plateau, to discover what, why and how
the entire 'site plan' map of the Giza Plateau can be used to help
us discover an 'ancient' purpose that relates to our own 'present'
day time period.
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Pole Shift & Pole Reversal in 2012
Author: Patrick Geryl
In 2012 the next polar reversal will take place on earth. This
means that the North Pole will be changed into the South Pole.
Scientifically this can only be explained by the fact that the earth
will start rotating in the opposite direction, together with a huge
disaster of unknown proportions.
In my books I reveal the immense cataclysm that is going to
torment the earth in the near future. It is presently assumed by
most people and the general scientific world at large, that the
rotation of the Earth is stable, however, as expounded in my
previous works on this subject, this is not the case. The gruesome
reports of the previous catastrophes should, hopefully, be clear to
all.
The historical exploration of cosmology in previous books is
founded on the translation of hieroglyphs, cracking of codes,
unveiling of the magnetic reversal of the sun, study of old maps,
decoding of astronomical clues, geological research, and the
discovery of the most exciting archaeological find in modern
times.
Considering these I came to the following conclusions:
1. With clock-like regularity, sudden reversals
and pole shifts are natural to the Earth.
The result is worldwide destruction, and is
supported by paleo-magnetic evidence
and early manuscripts.
2. The reversal of the poles is attributed to
the harmonic cycle of the magnetic fields
of the sun.
3. Polar reversals can be calculated precisely
on the basis of the sunspot cycle theory or
the magnetic field theory, which the Maya
and the Old Egyptians were privy to. These
secrets are contained in the Labyrinth of
Hawara, a huge complex consisting of
three thousand rooms.
I explained abundantly clearly that life after a polar reversal is
nothing but horror, pure unimaginable horror. All securities you
presently have at hand, like - amongst others - food, transport,
and medicines, will have disappeared in one big blow, dissolved
into nothingness. As will our complete civilization. It cannot be
more horrifying than this; worse than the worst nightmare. More
destructive than a nuclear war in which the entire global arsenal
of nuclear weapons has been deployed in one blow. Are you
grasping the facts?
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The earth will be subjected to total destruction. It will be many
times worse than my description. Terrible hunger, cold and pain,
and more will rule your daily life: without hope of a quick
recovery, because all knowledge and resources will have been
completely destroyed. That will be the reality of your daily life
after the forthcoming polar reversal. And it is in this scenario you
will have to try to survive.
The Riddle of the Magnetic Field Solved
At present scientists still do not know much about the mechanism
that generates the magnetic field of the earth, which is more than
frightening. Without doubt, our continued existence depends
upon this. Thousands of years ago our ancestors knew that when
this magnetic field tilts, a worldwide destruction takes place. The
present geologists, astronomers and physicists know little about
this. For that reason we are running towards our end, without a
single acknowledgement from official sources.
So, what do our professors indeed know? Next to nothing. In
short, the scenario is as follows: a solid central core rotates in the
center of the earth. It is surrounded by a liquid iron-like layer, on
top of which the earth's crust is continuously drifting. This whole
structure therefore appears to be a huge rotating dynamo. In
addition, the liquid layer rotates in the electrostatic field of the
sun, recharging itself.
However, this is not at all efficient: more electrical potential is
lost than gained. Just like a battery that is almost empty, it is
difficult to recharge and it becomes exhausted more easily and
quickly. This is the situation with the "battery" of the magnetic
field of the earth. For this reason one sees the force of the
magnetic field diminishing, almost 60% over the last two
thousand years.
At this rate there will not be much left within a couple of
decades! And then one can expect a reversal of the poles. But
nobody knows in what way this will happen, nor what the
consequences will be, in contrast to the Maya and the Old
Egyptians who knew the terrible consequences only too well.
Their science, their religion and way of life were completely
based on them. They encoded their knowledge in Holy Numbers
and in their architecture.
I needed days, weeks, months and years to follow their carefully
applied clues and decode them. After an exasperatingly long
search, I found out that these codes were connected with the
catastrophic events on earth that were caused by pole shifts.
Some of the codes were terribly complicated, although not
incomprehensible. Once you have figured out the cipher, you are
able to decipher the different levels of their scientific language.
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Then you can literally peel away layer after layer until you reach
the ultimate result: the naked scientific figures regarding the
background of these catastrophes.
Unknown Sunspot Cycle Theory Gives the Answer
The answers to these questions are alarming and devastating. All
my deciphering points to a complex and ingenious science. Let
me explain. When you, as a scientist, stumble upon results that
the present astronomers do not know, you have, without doubt,
stumbled upon something terribly important. Everybody will
have to admit it, and that is exactly what I have done: I
discovered an echo of a long-lost technological terminology; a
majestic building with immensely sophisticated keys. Many
numbers were based on the sunspot cycle, which they had
discovered. A theory that is irrefutably correct and not known by
our physicists! It cannot be more alarming!
This theory, in turn, correlates with the periodical polar reversals
of the earth. I succeeded in cracking the whole puzzle and a
large-scale structure appeared. Its development was such that the
mathematical matrix ends on the day of the next polar reversal!
Just like the way we count down to the launching of a rocket,
they counted down to the End of Times. On the last day of the
calendar the magnetic north of the earth will change into the
south. They knew this would not only mean the end of their
civilization, but also of the whole civilized world!
Solar Lightning Causes the Polar Reversal
From legends and the sunspot cycle theory of the Maya, we can
reconstruct the cause of a polar reversal. It has long been known
that when a beam of lightning strikes a magnet, a reversal of the
magnetic poles takes place. Let's apply this principle on a broader
scale.
Our earth is a huge magnet, with its own North and South Poles.
A short-circuit with another external "beam of lightning,” or
magnet, can end in a catastrophic polar reversal. This means that
the magnetic North Pole changes place with the magnetic South
Pole. But what sort of external beam can cause this? What force
is powerful enough to stop the rotation of the earth and revert it?
Only one object can cause this: our sun. You know from my
book, The OrionProphecy that the magnetic field of the sun
undergoes a drastic change every 11,500 to 12,000 years. Once a
crucial point has been reached, it reverses instantaneously.
Chaotic outbursts accompany this phenomenon and an immense
cloud of plasma is catapulted into space. Then a shock wave of
particles reaches our planet and the polar reversal of our earth
commences.
With unknown power this solar lightning strikes our planet and
causes a gigantic short circuit. That is the catastrophic truth
behind a polar reversal of the earth. But how can we scientifically
describe this fact? What is the precise physical cause that
produces this polar reversal?
334
Solar Storms Cause the Pole Shift
In the book Earth under Fire I came upon the correct theory.
More precisely, in the chapter entitled "Solar Storms and
Geomagnetic Flips." The astronomer Paul La Violette writes
“Field flips have been accomplished experimentally, by shooting
large quantities of loaded particles on a strong bipolar magnet.
These particles are then caught in the magnetic fields and cause a
"ring-stream" in them. At a certain moment this stream speeds up
to such an extent that the field of the magnet reverses
completely.”
In an equivalent scenario the field of the earth can reverse in just
the same way. Astronomers know that the particles of a solar
storm can compress the earth's magnetic field and temporarily
speed up the power of the earth's field.
When the solar particles reach our planet, the electromagnetically
-loaded particles will move in a spiral along the magnetic lines:
from the magnetic north pole to the magnetic south pole and
back. While passing this north-south axis, they will move into the
direction of the equator. When they arrive there, they will join
into a super powerful "ring current."
This "ring current" generates an intense magnetic field that is
opposite to the earth's magnetic field. In order to overpower the
earth's magnetic field you need a solar flame a hundred times
more forceful than the biggest one we have ever seen. At the
reversal of the magnetic field of the sun this degree will certainly
be reached.
From here on, my point of view deviates from that expressed by
Paul La Violette. Not only will the poles reverse, but also the
earth will begin to rotate in the opposite direction! This can only
occur when the "ring current" pushes the inner core of the earth
in the opposite direction.
Everybody knows that when you change the poles of an electric
motor, it will start turning the other way. The same holds for the
interior of the earth. When an external short circuit takes place,
the core cannot do otherwise but start turning in the opposite
direction!
Destruction & Renewed Life
This catastrophe will not only result in the massive destruction of
life on earth, but also its continued existence, however
incomprehensible this may sound. Let me explain this.
The magnetic field of the earth is not an accident of natural
science. Its primary task is to protect us against cosmic and solar
radiation. Without this field, life is practically impossible and in a
short time, life on our planet would be extinguished. An all-
burning, deadly radioactive radiation would torment the earth's
surface.
So here we are talking about an incompatible duality: despite the
fact that a huge amount of people, animals and plants will die,
life will continue to exist, because the exhausted battery of the
earth will be reloaded by the enormous solar storm. During
thousands of years the magnetic field of the earth can therefore
remain stable, protecting the flora and fauna against the
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
damaging radiation. While doing this job, the inner battery of the
earth will run out again and another cycle of destruction followed
The Orion Prophecy: Will the World Be Destroyed in 2012
by Patirck Geryl & Gino Ratinckx
In my previous book, "The Orion Prophecy", I came to the
staggering conclusion that the earth will be subjected to a huge
disaster. The cause: the magnetic field of the earth will reverse in
one go, resulting in catastrophic consequences for humanity.
Immense earthquakes will sweep away all buildings on earth;
while continents will shift thousands of kilometers and an all-
demolishing tidal wave will leave billions of dead people behind.
In this book I scientifically reveal the millennia-old codes of the
Maya and the Old Egyptians, which refer to this super-disaster.
The reader gets carried away in an astonishing series of
discoveries about the secrets of a long lost past -- of an
antediluvian civilization, which was able to calculate the previous
polar shift, and its late descendants, who have calculated the next
reversal for 2012. What I discovered is incredibly shocking and
335
by creation and mutation will start anew.
of such crucial importance, that it concerns everybody without
any exception.
The Dresden Codex of the Maya, for instance, contains the
secrets of the sunspot cycle, about which our modern astronomers
know nothing yet! The conclusions that follow, are even more
staggering.
At a certain moment, when the sun's magnetism reaches a crucial
point, the sun's surface will be subjected to immense storms.
They will cause a super-catastrophe on earth, without equal. The
astronomical Zodiac of the Egyptians described the exact dates of
the previous disasters and their consequences for our planet.
When you combine the facts of these phenomena, you are able to
prove the source of the number 666, known from the Bible as the
number of the Apocalypse. It is taken from the Egyptian
civilization and indicates an aberration in the sunspot cycle,
which lays the foundation for the forthcoming world cataclysm.
Furthermore, both cultures had made incredibly precise
calculations for the orbit of the earth around the sun. They are so
accurate, that they exceed our present values! Completely
astonished by this discoveries, I could do nothing but
acknowledge these ancient particulars as exact, and with that,
concede that our end is imminent.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Dr Paul LaViolette –
Earth Under Fire: Galactic Superwaves
Lagonisi, Greece, 29 July, 2009
Dr Paul LaViolette is the measured counterpart to Patrick Geryl,
whose interview we have released simultaneously. A brilliant and
maverick astrophysicist, Paul is best known for his research into
a new theory of matter he calls Subquantum Kinetics - based on
systems theory, which he studied for his PhD thesis - and for his
carefully argued hypothesis, first formulated in 1983, that our
galactic center periodically emits devastating waves he termed
superwaves.
Galactic superwaves are intense cosmic ray particle
bombardments that originate from the center of our Galaxy, and
that last for periods of up to a few thousand years. Paul explains
that astronomical and geological evidence indicates that the last
major superwave impacted our solar system around 12,000 to
16,000 years ago, and produced abrupt changes of the Earth's
climate.
The land animal extinction episode which occurred during this
interval was the worst in several million years, and Paul estimates
that approximately one or two superwaves strong enough to
trigger an ice age are presently on their way to us from their
birthplace at the galactic core... 23,000 light years away. Paul
states that there is a real chance that one such event could arrive
within the next few decades. Importantly - because they travel at
the speed of light - we would not see them coming.
Paul explains that less intense superwaves, which recur with
considerable frequency, could also pose a threat. He cites
evidence that the galactic center has erupted as many as ten times
in the last 2,000 years, the most recent event occurring about 700
years ago. While these low intensity events could have passed
unnoticed in earlier centuries, today they could be extremely
hazardous. The EMP [electromagnetic pulse] accompanying such
a superwave could knock out electrical power grids and
communication networks on a global scale. Consequently, argues
336
Paul, study of this phenomenon deserves a very high priority, and
he founded The Starburst Foundation to do this.
Of some considerable interest is the testimony from our insider
source Jake Simpson, who told us in October 2008 that there was
a 'wave' coming - but that it would not arrive here for quite a few
years: possibly around 2017-2020. When asked how he knew, his
response was that highly advanced and classified superluminal
[faster-then-light] craft had been out to "take a look", and had
then returned to report back with the information. Jake told us
that the effect could either be cataclysmic, or "just a puff of
wind"... and that exactly what would happen, and when, was
simply not known.
Of interest also is the anonymous testimony from a senior
Electrical Engineer, whose wife contacted us in April 2009 to
report an anticipated major breakdown of national power supplies
a few years from now. These reports - and others (such as that
from Dan Sherman) - all weave together to form an unsettling
picture. While we have said separately that we do not agree with
Patrick Geryl's conclusions, it does seem that the Earth, and the
human race, may possibly be in for a bit of a rough ride... from a
number of different causes.
Start of Interview
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Intro:
PAUL LaVIOLETTE (PLV): This is the problem with Black
Projects. They’re completely isolated from the rest of the world,
discovering things as if they found them themselves for the first
time, while everyone else who may have been doing a lot of work
on the subject is left out of the loop; that really people should be
brought in from outside to help on this.
Why keep it secret? We all want to help out to prepare for the
next event.
Personally, my standpoint is, from all the work I’ve done, I can
only talk about probabilities, that we’re overdue for one, but I
don’t know when it’s going to come. I can say that within the
next 400 years, there’s over 90 percent chance we’re going to
have one. Whether it’s a small one or a large one, I don’t know.
So that’s the best I can do.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Now, I would be saying something entirely different if I had real
evidence that there was one, that somebody had actually detected
one.
And this would have also what we call an EMP –
ElectroMagnetic Pulse – associated with it, similar to what a
high-altitude nuclear explosion would do in the atmosphere.
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): So, are you that rare thing, “A
Scientist with a Conscience”?
PLV: I guess you’d say so, yeah. It’s just me, I guess. My interest
is in helping humanity. I’m interested in the truth and not living
in some dream of some belief system that other people are telling
you and it doesn’t fit the data.
Start of Interview:
BILL RYAN (BR): This is Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy from
Project Camelot and this is Wednesday, the 29th of July, 2009,
and we are in Lagonissi, which is just south of Athens in Greece.
It’s our great pleasure to be here because we are here with Dr.
Paul LaViolette, who is best described, I believe, as a maverick
astrophysicist who has some very important theories that may
possibly be of some impact, if I dare use that word, to people on
this planet at this time.
We’re here to ask Paul to explain the “Hypothesis of the Galactic
Superwave” and that’s the smallest nutshell I can put this into.
KC: So Paul, why don’t you introduce yourself and say
something about your background?
PLV: Well, I grew up in a family of scientists in Schenectady,
New York. Both my parents had worked on the “Manhattan
Project.” My father was a nuclear engineer working on nuclear
submarines at the time, so I was exposed at an early age to
nuclear reactors and nuclear physics.
I was sort of a science buff from very early, with hobbies in
chemistry, electronics, pyrotechnics. [laughs] I was the fellow on
the street who was launching rockets from his back yard – almost
had a pretty bad accident. It was sort of just a stroke of luck that I
didn’t get hurt badly.
We moved to Greece for a couple years and that was quite an
experience when I was in high school. I went to Johns Hopkins
for my BA in Physics. I then did an MBA.
I was a conscientious objector, so in the middle of my business
degree, I took off two years to do alternative service; I was
working at Harvard doing research on public health, on
respiratory protection of workers.
Then after finishing at the University of Chicago – my MBA – I
did my Ph.D. in System Science at Portland State University.
That took quite a few years to go through that.
Then I founded The Starburst Foundation upon graduating and
that’s still going. It’s a research institute.
337
KC: What is it researching?
PLV: Well, I founded it with the purpose of investigating further
the “Superwave Phenomenon”, and in the event that signs of a
superwave were about to be arriving, that we would go into high
gear alerting, like when you have the first warning signs of an
earthquake, that you start alerting everyone.
We were dealing here with a phenomenon that few people knew
about, so I felt obligated to try and do my best to inform people
about this new concept.
KC: So did you train and hire people that were able to handle and
understand the science behind the superwave?
PLV: At one time we had some volunteers help out, for example,
when we were getting ice core samples from Holland, to help
prepare the chest to bring the ice, but we never really had serious
funding to be able to hire people.
KC: Okay.
PLV: Most of the charitable institutions were interested in
funding the arts and they figured science is left to the National
Science Foundation in NASA, but they [NSF & NASA] tend to
fund very conventional-type research that fits exactly with the
paradigm.
KC: So what you’re saying basically is that you created this
Institute did you call it? Or would you call it a Think Tank or...?
PLV: I would call it a Research Institute.
KC: Institute. Okay. And in theory it’s there in case you find that
the superwave really is on the way. But in a sense haven’t you
found that that is true already?
PLV: Well, yeah. There is a superwave on the way from the
center of the galaxy – it’s 23,000 light-years traveled distance. I
believe there’s not one but several on their way towards us.
There were other purposes for the Foundation also; it was to do
further work on a physics that I developed called Subquantum
Kinetics which has new implications both for technology and for
cosmology. In fact it completely revises the way we regard the
world, the Universe.
Also I’ve done some work in the psychology area of thought
formation and so that was a third possible area we could
investigate. But also alternative energy was a fourth topic. So, all
of these.
KC: Okay, so you’re saying that there is a galactic superwave on
the way and you think there’s more than one.
PLV: Yes. Several.
KC: Several.
PLV: Mm-hm.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Okay, and the reason you think there’s more than one is...?
PLV: Well, you look at the past to understand the future. In this
case you’re dealing with a cyclic phenomenon. We have the ice
core record from both Antarctica and Greenland and people have
measured beryllium-10, which is an indicator of cosmic ray
intensity on the surface of the Earth. So it sort of gives you a
chart of how cosmic ray intensity has varied over the last few
hundred-thousand years, and going back you see these peaks.
I had predicted you would find peaks when I did my Ph.D.
dissertation on this topic at Portland State University and later the
data came out, and indeed, there were peaks. You can take this
and analyze it to look at for the periods. You find that there are
certain periods that come out of this data. One of them is around
26,000 to 28,000 years, which is approximating the precessional
cycle of the Earth. In fact, the two tend to match up in a certain
way which is very interesting.
Another is around 11,500 years. And the third one is around
5,700 years, which is close to the Mayan calendar cycle. And you
see that there was a major event at the end of the Ice Age
between 11,000 and 16,000 years ago, and that we’re in fact
overdue now for another one.
There were smaller events. You see a small event around 5,300
years ago; it lasted maybe 20 years or so. There’s also very small
events – averaging every 500 years or so – since then. There were
14 small puffs of gas that were emitted from the galactic center,
which indicates [that] it was active, but it wasn’t active enough to
create a peak that you could see in the [ice] record.
KC: So you determined this by looking at the ice cores and the
amount of debris in them? Am I wrong?
PLV: Well, they were analyzing beryllium-10, which is a
radioactive element. It’s produced in the atmosphere by cosmic
rays. It doesn’t originate on Earth because, being radioactive, it
eventually dissipates, decays away. It has a half-life longer than
carbon-14, so they can go back further than with carbon-14, with
this.
KC: Okay. So when you say there’s a small event, what is a small
event comprised of? How does that affect the Earth? PLV: The
small event that happened 5,300 years ago, it was just a little
spike and it was easily missed. It was only seen because this
particular researcher did a very detailed study of the [ice] core
and they found it – without remarking what it was. I was the one
that called attention to it.
At the same time, another researcher found that the climate
cooled inexplicably at that time and became dry. In fact, in the
Andes they found... Lonnie Thompson, a glaciologist who I
worked with at the time I was doing my Ph.D. research, he was
the one who sent me samples from the Camp Century ice core
that I had analyzed.
His team found actual vegetation frozen in the ice, sort of like
flash-frozen, it still had a green color, you know, as if there were
some hail storm at that time. It’s the same year they found the Ice
Man; the Ice Man in the Alps dates to about the same time. So it
seems like there were sudden blizzards that occurred about that
time.
338
KC: So are you extrapolating that this superwave could cause an
Ice Age?
PLV: In this case it didn’t. The small event didn’t cause an Ice
Age, but it did cause cooling. But in a larger event... We see these
events occurring at the time of the initiation of the last Ice Age.
You see them lining up not only with the beginning of the Ice
Age but also at the ending, and with major climatic transitions in
between. So there’s a definite connection between climate and
the superwaves.
KC: Okay. BR: I want to ask some questions here on behalf of a
lot of intelligent listeners we have who are alert to your name and
to the fact that you have been saying some things that are
considered by many intelligent people to be important, but they
still don’t know what a superwave is. I wondered if you can back
right up and tell our viewers: What is a superwave? And do they
exist, or is it just a hypothesized event? And why should they
care?
PLV: A superwave consists of cosmic ray electrons, gamma-rays,
x-rays, light, radiowaves – across the whole spectrum – along
with a gravity wave, and this is all traveling at the speed of light
towards our solar system. In fact, it propagates throughout the
whole galaxy, sort of like a spherical shell traveling out from the
center of the galaxy.
BR: So, in simplistic terms, it’s an enormous cosmic-scale,
galactic explosion coming from the center of the galaxy.
PLV: Right. We’ve all heard of gamma-ray bursts.
BR: Yes.
PLV: In fact, some scientists have theorized that the gamma-rays
are accompanied by charged particles coming along with them,
that it’s actually the charged particles that generate the gamma-
rays on the way. This is what a superwave is, except on a much
larger scale. Instead of a burst, just of a fraction of a second,
we’re dealing with something that could continue for hundreds,
even thousands, of years.
KC: When you say it could continue for hundreds or thousands of
years, are you talking about it could travel for hundreds or
thousands of years and take that long to get here? Or are you
talking about its actual impact on Earth lasting for hundreds or
thousands of years?
PLV: The actual period that the Earth would be going through
this storm – you can think of it as a galactic storm – could be
anywhere from a few hundred years to thousands of years, like
4,000 years, maybe 5,000 years.
KC: So are you seeing traces that in the past – because you said
every 26,000 years that there is evidence of this, and it matches
with the precession of the Equinox. Are you saying that during
that time there’s evidence that it stayed around, its impact lasted
for up to 4,000 years? Or at those times did it last for shorter
periods?
PLV: If you look at the record – in my book I showed the
beryllium-10 record –- you see, for example, around 40,000 years
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
ago there was quite a hefty peak there, lasting 5,000 years, the
whole thing.
This is actually one event that there’s been a lot of study on by
other glaciologists. They all agree that the cosmic ray intensity
went up in a real fashion at that time, although they propose an
alternative theory of supernova explosion, without saying where
is the supernova. They suggested a star nearby exploded.
My answer to that is this happens very rarely, to have a star
explode that close to cause the cosmic ray intensity to
significantly increase on Earth. And we’re talking about many
peaks, you know. They just wanted to explain the one, but what
about... In the record that we have, there’s something like twelve
to fifteen peaks.
KC: And these are cyclical so, in essence, stars don’t explode on
a cyclical basis, as far as we know.
PLV: That’s the other thing. Yeah.
KC: Okay.
BR: I want to ask you, Paul, is there a recognized hypothesized
mechanism whereby whatever it is at the center of the galaxy –
and there are those who think it’s a black hole – would actually
emit these superwaves on a cyclical basis? Is there some
theoretical background for the existence of that periodicity?
PLV: I haven’t heard them put forward something to explain the
cyclic nature. I think that they find it sort of mysterious.
The conventional view... because they see this going on in other
galaxies. They’re called exploding galaxies, or Seyfert galaxies;
quasars. These are various names for the same sort of thing.
At one time they thought a quasar was an unusual object in space,
when in fact, it turns out it’s a galaxy whose center has become
so bright that it looks star-like and they don’t see the galaxy
itself. But with the space telescope, they found the spiral arms
there.
They would think that these exploding galaxies have a cycle on
the order of several hundred-million years and that the period of
the explosion would last about a few million years, with the idea
that if it happened in our own galaxy -- because they also would
say, Well, it’s possible it would happen in our galaxy, too; but
they say, Well, we’re in a quiescent period now, which should
hold for at least another 50-million years, so we shouldn’t be
worrying about it.
And even if it did happen, the conventional view is that these
cosmic rays would be held back by the magnetic fields that these
would come to our rescue to hold back the cosmic rays from
leaving the center of the galaxy.
KC: So to get back to your theory, though, of what you call the
superwave, you see evidence that we are in the midst of a
superwave now? Or several of them, you’re saying?
339
PLV: No, they haven’t arrived. We’re in the eye of the hurricane,
the nice sunny period in between before the storm arrives. The
thing is that you can’t see them coming because they travel at the
speed of light, so it’s a phenomenon that’s totally without
warning, just like a gamma-ray burst. They only know it when
their detectors pick it up, and then they’re able to locate where it
came from.
KC: Well, if it’s coming to our solar system, wouldn’t other
planets be affected before we would?
PLV: Yes. It affects all planets, all stars.
KC: So, in a sense, you could see it coming if you saw the effects
on other planets before it hit Earth. Is that right?
PLV: Well, the light from those effects on the other planets also
travels at the speed of light, so it actually lags behind the actual
event itself.
BR: Yeah. I understand very well that this is something that you
can’t see happening because of the nature of the limited speed of
light, and this is something that travels outward at the speed of
light. So basically, this comes up and hits you from behind, as it
were, and you’ve got no warning.
PLV: Yeah. There would be only one way I could see that you
could have warning. If, let’s say, a hypothesis, that there were
civilizations in the galaxy, there was intelligent life and they
recognized the importance of knowing when these were coming
and set up outposts at different points that were able to relay a
signal that was superluminal – in other words, that would travel
faster than the speed of light – to get the warning here, so we’d
know exactly when the next one was going to arrive. That’s
possible.
BR: Yeah.
KC: Okay, well we actually have a witness, we call him Jake
Simpson, who has said that they did send a superluminal craft
outside this solar system and that they have seen a wave
approaching. He called it a wave. We’re not sure if he actually
meant a wave, but in essence they saw something headed toward
us.
PLV: Who is they?
KC: The people that he works for in Black Projects, basically.
This is Jake Simpson. So that was one of the reasons that we
were sort of interested in hearing your theory because in many
ways it seems to coincide with what he was saying, with what
they saw. PLV: And how close is it? Did he say?
KC: In this period of years, between now and 2017.
PLV: Mm-hm.
BR: Yes, it was very interesting. It was a conversation which I
personally had with him last October when we met. He’s not a
physicist, but he’s an intelligent man. He’s worked for Black
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Projects on the inside and he’s saying things to us that are at the
limit of what he can say.
What he said was that there is a wave coming. He stressed that
the wave was a sort of loose term; it was a metaphor. He said to
think of it in terms of a wave. He said it like that. And I have no
idea whether he’s acquainted with your theories.
PLV: Well, this is the problem with Black Projects. They’re
completely isolated from the rest of the world and discovering
things as if they found them themselves for the first time while
everyone else who may have been doing a lot of work on the
subject is left out of the loop.
The only people that lose out are the human race, basically.
Because I’ve been here; I’ve been working on superwaves since
1979; so about 30 years, and I would be happy to work with
them. I believe I’d have something to contribute if they did
indeed have some information like that.
KC: So actually is it possible that they are following your work?
Benefiting from it?
PLV: Oh, I’m sure they’ve bought my book and it’s circulated
among the Black Project scientists.
KC: Especially if your parents, as you said, worked in the
Manhattan Project.
PLV: Well, regardless of that, I think they’re searching for new
ideas all the time to sort of funnel this into what they’re doing. I
think to some extent they realize that they don’t have all the
ideas, that there’s interesting stuff out there.
But I think it’s that, really, people should be brought in from
outside to help on this. Why keep it secret? We all want to help
out, to prepare for the next event.
Personally, my standpoint is, from all the work I’ve done, I can
only talk about probabilities, that we’re overdue for one, but I
don’t know when it’s going to come. Because I’m looking at the
past record, I see the cycles.
I see when the last events occurred, and I can say that within the
next 400 years, there’s over 90 percent chance we’re going to
have one. Whether it’s a small one or a large one, I don’t know.
So that’s the best I can do.
Now, I would be saying something entirely different if I had real
evidence that there was one, that somebody had actually detected
one. The Starburst Foundation, for example, would go into high
gear to say, you know: We’ve got to start preparing.
We’re not prepared for something like this. Not even for a
Carrington event solar flare which could wipe out all the power
systems, if we had one.
KC: So are you saying that the superwave would result in the
wiping out of the power systems?
PLV: Oh yeah.
340
KC: What other effects would it have?
PLV: The thing is, the superwave, on its forefront, would have a
very dense sort of shock-front of cosmic rays and this would have
also what we call an EMP – ElectroMagnetic Pulse – associated
with it, similar to what a high-altitude nuclear explosion would
do in the atmosphere.
When this arrives, it’s going to create similar phenomena, just
like the Starfish Explosion – I believe it was near Hawaii – and
when the EMP wave arrived, there were whole sections of the
island that were having blackouts as a result. It also would fry
electronic circuits; phones would go out. We’ve had even smaller
events, like gamma-ray bursts, affect the communication systems
and do damage to our communication systems. So something like
this would pretty much roast all the satellite equipment we’ve
got. Cell telephones wouldn’t be working. TV would be off the
air if it depended on satellite.
Perhaps telephones would continue to work if it was fiber-optic,
if it was insulated from this sort of thing. Your power lines would
pick up the pulse. The wires would have a huge voltage surge
which would fry the transformers – the step-down transformers
that go from your million-volt voltages down to the voltages you
use in your house.
KC: Wouldn’t it also affect the cars that we have now?
PLV: The cars that are all now with chips in them. In the case of
an EMP from a nuclear explosion, for example, they warn that it
could fry the chips in a car.
KC: And this is something that could last for a hundred years,
you’re saying, once it arrived.
PLV: The forefront – we’re talking about something that might
just be minutes, and it would be probably preceded by a gravity
wave which would cause earthquakes; seismic events all over the
Earth, not just in one place. So that might be the first warning,
actually, things shaking.
BR: Let me back up just a fraction again to help our viewers
understand this, mostly to help me understand this. Does a
superwave incorporate a gamma-ray burst, or are these two
different phenomena that you're describing?
PLV: Different. The gamma-ray bursts that they talk about are
usually from isolated stellar explosions, perhaps very powerful
supernova explosions. They have some special physics involved
there, that the stars are very unusual, like neutron stars colliding
and so on.
BR: Okay.
PLV: The thing is that whatever they are, we can only guess
because they’re so far away. Most of the gamma-ray bursts that
we’re picking up come from other galaxies, millions of light-
years away.
There’s been only one case we’ve observed, one that came from
within our galaxy. It was a place near the galactic center, but not
at the core. What’s unusual there is that about two days before
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the gamma-ray burst arrived was the worst seismic event that
we’ve had in 30 years that caused the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami
in Malaysia and over 250,000 people died in that event.
KC: So you’re saying that was caused by a gamma-ray
explosion?
PLV: Gamma-ray burst. This was the first one they found that
was emitted from within our galaxy. It was the most intense that
they’d ever observed in the history of gamma-ray observatory
physics.
The coincidence of being just shortly after the worst earthquake
we’ve had in 40 years... You can do the probabilities and you
come up with very small probability that it’s due to chance.
KC: So you’re saying this gamma-ray versus a superwave; if you
were to compare them as events, would you say that the
superwave is... it sounds like it’s much more long-range, it would
impact for years at a time.
PLV: Yeah.
KC: And it’s cyclical as opposed to the gamma-ray bursts that
maybe aren’t explainable?
PLV: The gamma-ray burst, probably the source star ends up
blowing itself up completely into smithereens, so there’s no cycle
involved.
Whereas core explosions, we’re dealing with the massive object
at the center of the galaxy – scientists call it a black hole. I don’t
believe in black holes and I know other astrophysicists that don’t
believe in black holes, but I do believe it’s a very massive object.
I believe it’s the core of a star.
In natural evolution, a star will eject its atmosphere and you’re
left with a very dense core. It has a density similar to a white
dwarf star which is, like they say, one-ton-per-cubic-centimeter;
or in an extreme case, go to the density of a neutron star, which is
a million times greater.
I mean, we’re talking about a spiral galaxy whose core object has
evolved to the point where it’s starting this outburst cycle. And,
by the way, that’s how a galaxy is formed. These outbursts
actually participate in the formation of the galaxy. That’s what
causes the spiral phenomenon, because without these outbursts,
the spiral arms would wind up on themselves. This is a problem
which astrophysicists have wondered about: Why don’t the spiral
arms wind up as it turns? Well it’s because you have these
periodic outbursts coming out and they sort of propel everything.
KC: But do you know what causes that? The periodic outbursts?
PLV: Yeah. I have theory that comes out of Subquantum
Kinetics. In Subquantum Kinetics, you have a continuous
creation of matter and energy, basically a violation of the First
Law of Thermodynamics, which is no big deal, you know...
maybe physicists would consider it a big deal.
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But the point is that we’re talking about a level that’s 10 orders of
magnitude smaller than what they can observe in a laboratory. In
fact, I have suggested an experiment where they can observe it in
space with microwave signals between spacecraft.
I published the amount of the energy increase of a photon over
that period of distance. In fact, they ended up finding this, and
it’s today called The Pioneer Effect.
KC: Okay. So this Subquantum Kinetic – what do you call –
particles? It’s a theory...
PLV: Subquantum Kinetics is the name I gave to the physics. It’s
resulting from taking concepts in system theory, the area I was
studying for my Ph.D. work.
If you bring systems concepts into physics and bring, for
example, models that have been developed in the area of
chemistry, of how chemical waves form, I realized that these, for
example, form a very good model for describing how a particle
forms in space, and you find that it solves a lot of problems
which physics had before.
Physics traditionally has been based on mechanics and we’re
talking about a chemical reaction approach to physics. Actually
you could say it’s alchemical and it ties in with ancient ideas, too.
KC: Does this relate to hyper-dimensional physics and particles
being waves depending on how you look at them?
PLV: Okay, it does postulate the existence of higher dimensions.
The basic idea, which is what steered me into all of this work that
I’ve been doing, was the realization that the basis of Existence is
flux. This is totally different from what physicists have been
teaching.
Physicists teach that the basis of existence is structure – there are
particles that are somehow bound to each other, even quarks.
They speak of quarks in gluons, the “glue” that holds them
together, so to speak.
If they begin talking about flux... Because from their point of
view… physics is a positivist science. They want to observe, to
actually say: Well, there it is. I observe it.
Where is this flux? Well, they can’t see it. You can’t see this flux
because it’s at an etheric level. You postulate an ether as a
substrate forming physical phenomena.
BR: A gamma-ray burst basically is a local event that comes
from a supernova, which is hugely destructive and powerful and
we’re quite fortunate to not have any near us. We basically
mainly have seen them, if I understand it right, in neighboring
galaxies.
But the superwave is something different, which is cyclical, is
accompanied by a gravity wave, is accompanied by cosmic ray
debris and lasts quite a long time, like a storm, and leaves its
imprints and its echoes materially in ice core samples, which is
the tangible evidence that you have that there’s something going
on here that’s not being recognized.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Can you speak to all of that and lay this out simply for people so
that they can sort of see the territory that we’re talking about
here?
PLV: Okay. We also have supernova explosions in our own
galaxy, but they’re not of the kind of the very powerful ones that
cause these gamma-ray bursts. Unless, when we’re seeing these
gamma-ray bursts, what it is, is just a clump of very energetic
particles that happened to come our way at that moment. When
scientists are saying it was very, very powerful, they’re saying:
Imagine that this was the same energy from whatever angle you
viewed this star and it would end up totaling to a huge,
astronomical amount of energy.
But if it was just a clump, a collimated burst that happened to
come, then you’re down to more reasonable levels. The thing is
we don’t really know; these things are so far away. But we do
know that supernova explosions that have happened within our
galaxy don’t really affect us that much, unless it happens to be
one very close, like within 30 light-years, which is a very rare
event.
But the core explosions are different in that, instead of just a
fraction of a second for the event, you’re talking about anything
from several years for a very minor event to 4,000 to 5,000 years’
duration.
The longer events can actually start affecting climate, because
what they do is they vaporize cometary ice which is surrounding
our solar system end up pushing this nebular material into the
solar system, and it affects the way light gets to the Earth from
the sun. It ends up energizing the sun. It falls onto the sun; the
sun becomes more active and more of a flaring star.
Actually the sun ends up, then, doing more damage to Earth than
the superwave itself. The superwave is sort of what gets this dust
in and then you get worse things happening.
KC: So is it possible that Solar Cycle 24 could be acting on the
Earth as a result of a superwave that’s going to hit the sun?
PLV: No.
KC: No.
PLV: No, because we’ve in the in-between period, in between
superwaves. The solar system is fairly clean of dust.
I mean, if the solar system was packed with dust like the level
I’m talking about, we would all see it. You would see the moon
being blotted out by a dust cloud or a huge dust cloud going
across the sun.
KC: Oh, wow.
PLV: It would be definitely coast to coast news; both sides of the
planet.
BR: These dust clouds, aren’t they also traveling at the speed of
light from the galactic core?
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PLV: No, no, the dust doesn’t come from the core of the galaxy.
It’s already around our solar system and it’s pretty much
stationary, relatively stationary, just orbiting the sun, normally.
But when the superwave arrives, it creates a sort of a shock-front
around the solar system because the solar system has magnetic
fields around it, and it creates what they call bow-shock around
the heliopause. Heliopause is the name of the sort of protective
sheath of magnetic fields around the solar system.
In the magnetic fields, the superwave particles tend to get trapped
to some extent and build up to very high levels, enough of a
density of cosmic ray energy to actually start vaporizing ice.
When that happens it’s actually able to raise the temperature from
close to, let’s say, ten degrees above absolute zero, up to the level
where the ice could vaporize and release both dust and water
vapor – gas – into space and this stuff gets pushed in as it’s being
pushed in by the superwave cosmic rays.
It’s like a battle between the solar wind and the superwave
cosmic rays. The solar wind is sort of expelling this dust, but then
the superwave is pushing this in and it will actually compress the
magnetic field sheath that’s around the solar system inward.
In my thesis which I published in 1983, [“On Galactic Core
Explosions and Their Effect on the Earth and Solar
System”…www.etheric.com/LaVioletteBooks/EUF-CD.html] I
was suggesting that at the end of the Ice Age, the sheath actually
got pushed in almost to Mars’ orbit. So from there, it’s just a
short hop for this dust then to come in around the sun.
It would actually produce a cocoon around the sun, so that the
sun wouldn’t be yellow like we see it; it would be reddish.
BR: So let me feed back to you what I think that you’re saying.
What you’re saying is that the superwave creates a huge energetic
impact on the dynamic systems in the solar system and then that
causes so many energetic complications – and I’m speaking very
generally here deliberately – and that’s actually what creates the
major changes in the weather that could last several thousand
years.
Because the reverberations, electromagnetically, and the dust
clouds, and the behavior of the sun and everything else are going
to cause quite a long ripple effect locally after the superwave
itself is actually all over. Have I got that approximately correct?
PLV: Yeah. Think of this in systems concepts. Think of a system,
and they speak of perturbing the system with an outside influence
of force or something.
BR: Yeah.
PLV: The solar system, and in fact the Earth’s climatic system, is
here being perturbed by conditions that normally don’t exist
today. The whole energetics around the Earth changes.
If it’s in place for decades and decades, that’s long enough for the
Earth’s climatic system to get perturbed into, let’s say, an Ice
Age or to come out of an Ice Age. If it was very brief, it wouldn’t
be long enough to cause this huge climatic shift that we’ve seen.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: But you are saying that you’ve observed that this is cyclical
and you’ve observed that this happens every 26,000 years, and
from what I understand, in your book you’re pulling in astrology,
the Tarot, the Mayan calendar, and all these sort of prophecies
that, you know, how the Hopi say there are different ages that we
go through. In a sense you must be predicting one coming fairly
soon.
PLV: Right.
KC: According to the cycle.
PLV: Yeah. Well, I found cycles of 26,000, 11,500 and 5,700
years. This was a study done by some people in the State of
Washington who did some number crunching as a sort of
contribution to Starburst – we do have people that help out at
times. With that we could see that we’re overdue presently.
But before they had done this to get more of a scientific, accurate
estimation of the cycles, you could see my own work. I did just
by eyeballing it and could see that there was this, both 13,000-
and 26,000-year period there. But I was a little off, perhaps. The
short one is more close to 11,500 and then there’s a 5,700-year
period.
KC: So if it arrives faster than the speed of light, then...
PLV: Not faster. I’m suggesting at the speed of light although the
gravity wave would have been slightly superluminal at the very
beginning if it was due to an explosive outburst that would have
caused it to get a slight head start. But pretty much the whole
thing travels at the speed of light towards us.
KC: So then it could happen at any time. I mean, am I right?
PLV: Yeah, we’re in the danger period. You have to realize –
which a lot of scientists don’t because their theories still believe
that galactic core explosions are every hundred-million years –
you have to realize that we are on the fringe of a volcano, a
galactic volcano, and it’s an active volcano, and we should be
expecting the eruption very shortly.
KC: When you say very shortly, because I understand you’re
looking very long range – what’s very shortly? Is that in a year?
Two years? Four years? A hundred years?
PLV: I don’t know. I only go out on the limb and I say there’s a
90 percent chance in the next 400 years of this happening.
KC: All right.
PLV: I think I’m pretty safe that something will happen, even if
it’s a small outburst. Because modern astronomy has been around
only for a few hundred years now, we haven’t seen any bright
luminosities coming from the galactic center.
KC: What about the fact that we’re coming equal with the
galactic center? Does that affect any of this or make it more
likely, or will the way it hits us change?
343
PLV: No. What you’re talking about, the Mayan calendar and the
sun crossing the galactic plane, there’s no effect there. It’s more
you have to look at the period and when the last event happened.
It’s interesting that the 5,300-year event, the small event of 20-
year duration or so, occurred just before the beginning of the
Mayan calendar cycle, the one that we’re currently in. That cycle
began 5,126 years before 2000, or before 2012, so around 3100
BC.
Whereas we’re seeing this event was around 3300 BC, plus or
minus a few hundred years, because we don’t know accurately
from the dating. We’re relying on ice core dating and it could be
a little off. Maybe it’s off by a hundred years or so.
BR: What I want to achieve here is some way of assisting many
people who watch our videos to understand the scientific basis
for which it’s plausible that something might be coming this way,
and it’s in our interest to understand and possibly even to prepare
for, that people are picking up intuitively. They’re reading things
on the Internet, things get distorted and muddied around and they
don’t know what they’re reading.
They hear these terms like superwave and gamma-ray burst and
they don’t know what they mean and they don’t know whether
this is this mumbo-jumbo, or whether it’s really something that
could affect their lives and change their lives and they don’t
know what basis there is for taking these things seriously and
digging more into it.
The reason why we’re here talking to you is because you’re the
man who represents and is the spokesperson for these important
ideas. And I say they’re important ideas because any hypothesis
in physics is an important idea. Even if it’s disproved, it was an
important idea until it was disproved and this takes the whole
thing forward, as you’ll understand.
So the opportunity here is for you to explain to the viewers as
best as you can how it is that these phenomena should be taken
seriously in your recommendation, what impact they might have
on us. What are the probabilities?
Is this catastrophism that we should be ignoring, and say: You
know what, everything’s going to be fine because it’s always
been fine?
Or maybe the geological record shows that things have not
always been fine and you should be on the alert because we’re
living on an unstable planet in a very dynamic system that's
affected by all kinds of things which we’re only just on the verge
of starting to understand.
PLV: Well, what you’re saying is the same question that went
through my mind: Is this a real phenomenon? That’s what caused
me to change the topic of my dissertation, my Ph.D. work, to
investigate the superwave phenomenon. In 1979 is when I first
discovered that this might occur. I formed a hypothesis. I called it
the Galactic Explosion Hypothesis and convinced my dissertation
committee that I could do this, I could test this hypothesis, and
that I could produce a Ph.D. on this, which I couldn’t have done
at a lot of universities.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
It happened that I was in a program that was very
interdisciplinary, so the idea of bringing in evidence from various
areas – from geology, astronomy, paleontology, high energy
physics – was fitting with this program.
In the end I summarized the evidence and found that it all seemed
to support this concept that a superwave had indeed passed
through our solar system between eleven and sixteen thousand
years ago causing major effects to the climate.
We had a very significant mass extinction, called the Pleistocene
Extinction, where large mammals died along with species of
birds and a number of other animals. Some people have said it
was the worst extinction to have occurred since the extinction of
the dinosaurs.
I was also drawing from ancient legends, although I didn’t
include that in the dissertation, but I do believe that that’s a
valuable source of information.
BR: Well, the Flood myths, for example.
PLV: Flood myths, the story of the sun burning the Earth, Horus
being stung by the Scorpion – the Scorpion is the sign in the
direction of the galactic center – things like this.
BR: This is where the tail of the Scorpion in the astrological
symbol actually points toward the galactic center.
PLV: Right.
BR: As if the ancients were trying to tell us something.
PLV: Yeah. There are two arrows in the astrological symbols.
Now, remember that the signs, what we call the astrological
signs, are actual constellations out there, and this is how they
were originally formed, as star constellations.
There are two arrows in the Zodiac. One is the Sagittarius arrow
and the other is the tail of the Scorpion, and they are both
pointing, it seems, at something. This was my first connection I
made between astrology and the Galactic Core Explosion
phenomenon when I realized that the center of the galaxy was in
that region where they were pointing.
BR: So what you’re positing there was the ancient astrologers,
who were also astronomers, were actually trying to leave a
message for us in such a way that it wouldn’t get lost over time.
PLV: Right. I believe that the Zodiac was a cryptogram, a time
capsule message that was created to warn the future civilization
on our planet about this.
BR: So that's where your intellectual journey started but
presumably you couldn’t say this in your Ph.D. thesis.
PLV: Right. I didn’t include any of that. I mean, who cares,
really, where you got your idea? The point is you make an
hypothesis and you’re testing it – is there scientific evidence for
it? – this is the main thing from the scientific standpoint that
you’re concerned with.
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KC: So, what you say is that there is no pole shift, that you don’t
see evidence of actual – and maybe you can explain this to me –
but my understanding is you say that there weren’t pole shifts at
those 26,000-year periods, but there was, instead, this galactic
superwave, explosion. Or even 13,000 or 12,000-year cycles.
PLV: Right. I believe that the climatic shifts that people have –
other, I don’t know if you want to call them scientists – that other
theoreticians have suggested that a pole shift was involved in
creating a climatic change.
First of all, there are so many shifts of climate just even during
the Younger Dryas, which was between 11,600 and 13,000 years
ago. You see something like 40 major shifts of climate within
that cold period, and to say that was to due to a shifting back and
forth of the pole gets to be a little absurd.
BR: Okay. What’s your response to the serious work of Charles
Hapgood and Rand Flem-Ath and Colin Wilson who’s been
popularizing the idea?
I mean, we tend to call it pole shifts, but they’re talking about
crustal displacement. I understand that you don’t feel that the
crustal displacement theory is valid, and I would be very
interested to hear why that is, in your view.
PLV: You know, if the evidence supported it, I would be for it,
but you just go to the ice core evidence to test that theory. For
example, Mr. Flem-Ath was talking about Antarctica being sort
of up closer to where Chile is during the Ice Age and that it
suddenly shifted down to its present position at the end of the Ice
Age.
Okay, if that was true, then you would expect the climate in
Antarctica should have been warmer during the Ice Age and you
don’t see that. I sent him something like four climate curves from
Antarctica which showed it was colder during the Ice Age, from
different parts of Antarctica. It didn’t seem to sway him, I guess.
But for me, looking at that data, that rules out a shifting of the
poles.
BR: So any kind of crustal...
PLV: Plus it would have caused sloshing of the oceans, you
would expect, if there were such a thing. Then how come we
don’t find saltwater deposits inland? We do find flood deposits
but it’s due to fresh water, which I’ve suggested is due to melting
of the ice sheets – a catastrophic melting.
BR: Could catastrophic melting of the ice sheets explain The
Great Flood?
PLV: Yes. Yes.
BR: There was that much water?
PLV: Yes. It’s something that doesn’t happen today because we
don’t have ice sheets. We do have ice caps.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Like in Iceland, we have situations where the glacier there is
melted in a certain area by a volcano and creates sort of a
reservoir of water which eventually bursts through a dam and
pours down. They call this a glacier burst. These are very small-
scale compared to what was happening during the Ice Age.
BR: So in order for there to have been a Great Flood like the one
described in the myths, the ice sheet would have had to have been
much larger and sea level lower than it is at the moment and there
would have to be a catastrophic melting. Your theory is that that
could only have been produced by some huge cosmic-scale event,
which you’re calling a superwave. Is that right?
PLV: It was mainly the sun involved. The superwave triggered
the conditions for the sun becoming more active.
BR: Okay.
PLV: Also the cosmic dust around the Earth actually creates, in
some cases, a warming effect because it can actually scatter light
that normally goes out into space back onto the Earth, and creates
sort of an interplanetary hothouse effect.
BR: Okay.
PLV: This was something not only going on the Earth, but also
we see evidence on Mars of canyons that appear to have been cut
by tremendous floods of water.
BR: Yes.
PLV: I believe that Mars is mostly covered by ice sheet. It’s sort
of like a tundra. The walls of the canyons are actually ice that
would have melted during some of these events.
Especially there are cases where the Earth was being hit by
super-sized coronal mass ejections. We have evidence from the
moon of glazed rocks and one NASA scientist was suggesting
that the moon was exposed to very intense radiation from the sun
to do this, something like 100-times greater luminosity of the sun
for at least 100 seconds.
In my dissertation I suggested the alternative, that perhaps both
the Earth and moon had gotten engulfed in a coronal mass
ejection, and that this was hot enough to actually melt particles
on the moon.
KC: Does your theory accommodate the loss of water on Mars as
a result of a superwave action upon the sun?
PLV: Can you say more about the loss of water on Mars?
KC: Well, my understanding is that Mars used to have water, and
maybe even plentiful water, and that at some point it disappeared,
and there are different theories to explain that disappearance.
PLV: Mars is about two kilometers deep in ice.
KC: Right now, you mean.
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PLV: It’s covered with an ice sheet from pole to pole. You might
find some areas where it’s more rock, but for the most part it’s
ice.
Why does it look like dust, like a dusty surface? Because on Mars
when the sun shines on this icy surface, the ice sublimates, turns
directly to gas, and leaves the dust behind. So for the first few
centimeters it’s just dust, but below that is what we would call
permafrost.
KC: Has this been validated by the Rover, the Mars Rover?
PLV: Yeah, they had a Rover thing going around just a year ago
or two.
KC: Right.
PLV: They had pictures they sent back and, sure enough, there
were chunks of white which was really ice mixed in with the dirt.
The reason they know that it was ice, they took pictures a little
while later when the sun had a chance to shine on it and it had
disappeared, evaporated. [laughs] So this stuff is just below the
surface.
In fact, they see gullies which look like freshly-formed by
running water, so in some cases this ice melts. As long as it’s
underground, there’s enough pressure to make it turn into water
and it can actually gush out from the sides of some of these
canyons and create these ravines.
BR: That’s pretty interesting.
PLV: I was saying this about Mars being covered with permafrost
way back, and as more and more data has come out with the
satellites... They’ve been doing radar sensing, and they find it’s
several kilometers or so deep with water there. It’s not pure water
-- it’s mixed with dust and stuff.
BR: I wasn’t aware of that.
PLV: So going to Mars, there’s no question that we’ll find water.
I mean, wherever you land, all you have to do is get something to
melt whatever you dig up.
BR: Okay. Let me take you back to the events of eleven, twelve
thousand years ago, whenever. One of the events on the
legitimate historical record, according to Plato, is the sinking of
Atlantis round about the same time as these mass extinctions of
all the large mammals and so on and so forth.
Is it possible that a superwave would be accompanied by the kind
of gravity wave that I believe, in your thinking, it doesn’t cause a
crustal displacement, but I think your words are it jerks the planet
to such a degree that it can cause serious impact, resulting in
earthquakes and other disasters.
PLV: Yes. You don’t need to really have a huge displacement of
the pole to cause major seismic disturbance on the planet.
KC: What about a magnetic pole shift? Is this related at all?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
PL: I believe the magnetic pole shifts are due to the sun’s effect
on the Earth. What happens there – I describe it in my thesis and
articles – when a coronal mass ejection arrives, the solar cosmic
ray particles get trapped in the Earth’s magnetic field. They
produce what are called storm-time radiation belts around the
Earth.
The particles end up drifting, the electrons in one direction, the
protons in the other, and this generates what they call a ring
current – this is all accepted geophysics – and produces a
magnetic field opposed to the Earth’s field.
They observed this after the 1956 solar proton event, when a
coronal mass ejection, a fairly large one, had hit the Earth. They
observed a one percent decrease of the magnetic field at that
time.
So all you have to do is scale that up a hundred times, and there
were in fact events that were that large around the time of the
extinction of the mammoths and ground sloths, and you do see
carbon-14 spurts.
This is something I’m about to publish. This is very new. I’ve
actually located in the ice core the event when that solar cosmic
ray burst hit the planet. That would have been enough particle
energy to actually cancel out the Earth’s magnetic field.
KC: So you’re saying that the sinking of Atlantis resulted from
that?
PLV: No. I have a totally different view of the Atlantis story. I
believe it’s an allegorical story. I don’t believe... and I’ve argued
with people who are Atlantis enthusiasts. They believe they’re
going to go out and find an island with moats and dikes around it.
Now, that’s the part in Critias. The Atlantis myth is broken into
two parts, one in Plato’s Book of Critias, and one in Plato’s Book
of Timaeus.
The Critias myth is the creation of Atlantis and the Timaeus myth
is about The Flood, which, if you date the time it’s given in
Plato’s myth, it comes to about 11,600 years ago when in fact
there was a very accelerated period of glacial melting. The sea
level was rising very rapidly at that time, so you were having
flooding.
I believe that in the Timaeus myth Atlantis is symbolizing the ice
sheet. The sinking signifies the ice sheet was melting.
As you remember in the myth, it was talking about Atlantis
leaving behind a shoal of mud. When ice melts and the floods
subside, that’s what you have, a shoal of mud. So in effect
Atlantis, the North American ice sheet, which is almost like a
continent – they speak of it as a continent – dissipated and is now
in the waters, the ocean.
In fact in Plato’s book this is a discussion between Solon, the
ruler of Athens, and a priest in Egypt, at Sais, Egypt. The priest
tells him that these myths, like the story of Atlantis or the
conflagration myth about Phaeton and the Sun Chariot, where the
sun ended up burning the Earth, that these are allegorical stories.
These things didn’t really happen the way the myths describe.
346
You have to infer that this is a parable, look at it allegorically.
For example, he referred to the story of Phaeton, that this really
represents astronomical bodies in their effect on the Earth, in fact
in this case the sun.
KC: So what about that they say that the magnetic poles are
shifting now. Do you agree with that?
PLV: By how much are they saying? [laughs]
KC: Well, I’m not sure. Bill, can you explain? I think they’ve
actually said there is a noticeable shift recently.
BR: Yeah. I don’t have the numbers. My understanding is that
it’s recognized that there looks to be a gradual shift happening
because of a weakness... There seems to be a gradual shift
happening. I don’t have the numbers. That may mean that it’s
hard for us to talk about but I thought that that was recognized.
Maybe I’m wrong.
PLV: Well, the intensity of the magnetic field has changed over
time. It’s varied up and down by about 50 percent during this last
interglacial, the last 11,000 years. In fact it’s been weakening
since 2,000 years ago.
So that’s a trend which probably could be continuing. I haven’t
looked at the same data you’re talking about.
KC: Okay. To get back to the galactic superwave and its impact
on Earth, and when it could occur, are you using predictive... sort
of referencing certain things like the Tarot, like astrology, like,
you know, the I Ching, etcetera, to predict the coming of the
superwave?
PLV: No.
KC: Okay. So what are you using?
PLV: It’s all based on science. And something we didn’t get to is:
What is the evidence for the past event? I really didn’t get into
that.
KC: Okay.
BR: [unclear]
PLV: I made a series of predictions and one was if – and this was
the key test that I performed, but there were others – was that if
this had actually occurred, it would have pushed cosmic dust into
the solar system and we should, therefore, see higher levels at
that time.
So I did a study of ice core samples. I was sent some by Lonnie
Thompson and I also got some ice directly from the Ice Core
Laboratory and processed it myself.
I used Neutron Activation Analysis, which is a technique where
you irradiate the dust that you filter out from the ice. You
irradiate it in a nuclear reactor and it becomes radioactive and
you see what’s in it.
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I was looking particularly for nickel and iridium, which, for
example, iridium is 10,000 times more abundant in cosmic
material than it is in the typical crustal material. I, in fact, found
peaks where the iridium level, for example, was hundreds of
times higher than what we normally get today, so it indicated
something was really happening.
This was a discovery that was as significant as the discovery of
the iridium peak at the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary.
Now, the difference there is you had a Nobel Laureate in the
team, along with three others who were members of the Berkeley
faculty. I was with a moderately-known university, Portland
State, but I was not in an astronomy program or geology
program; I was in the systems program.
So this was passed over at the time. It was cited by some
astronomers in the UK – Victor Klube – for his own theory
[laughs] actually before my results were published, which ticked
me off a little, saying that a comet had hit the Earth around
14,000 years ago.
As it turned out, my dating was off at that time because ice cores
weren’t properly dated in those days – this was in the early ’80s.
When I finally found the proper dating of the ice samples that I
dated, it turned out they were between 35,000 and 70,000 years
old, so I was looking at a period in the early-to-middle Ice Age
rather than the part I really wanted to test.
Actually the ice was missing from the ice record from that period
because it had already been sampled. That was the most
interesting area that researchers wanted to look at was at the end
of the Ice Age, so even if I wanted to I couldn’t have studied that
part.
KC: Well, how do you account for that?
PLV: Why is the ice missing? Because other researchers sampled
that very heavily and all the ice got gobbled up. I came late in the
game, so to speak. Those cores had been around for at least five
years before I started my tests.
KC: But what you’re saying is in essence that you did prove the
fact that there was an escalation in the amount of iridium, as you
called it.
PLV: Well, it was the first time elevated amounts of cosmic dust
had been found in the ice record. In fact, in one of the samples, I
found high levels of gold which would have been, if it was a
mine-able deposit, you could have made a lot of money in that
section.
KC: When was this?
PLV: That was around 50,000 years back.
KC: Okay. Well, I’m not sure this is related at all, but my
understanding... I don’t know if you go back to the days of the
Anunnaki when they supposedly... you know, Zecharia Sitchin’s
work and the fact that they were mining gold to put into the
atmosphere of their own planet to protect it from the sun’s rays
and so on, the loss of atmosphere. Is there any correlation there
347
between your finding a lot of gold in the samples that you were
getting 50,000 years ago?
PLV: Well, gold is also an enhanced material in cosmic dust.
You find several hundred to a thousand times more gold in
meteorites and cosmic dust than you do, typical of Earth crust
material. So the Earth, I believe, was being exposed to increased
amounts of gold dust.
In fact, gold nuggets could come from space. You have myth
stories of gold meteors, you know, where they find a nugget. In
fact, this gold tends to be concentrated at the bottom of gravel
deposits. Whenever there’s a flood, the heavy stuff’s going to
deposit first and so whatever was coming down ended up getting
concentrated by these floods in certain layers.
But anyway, that was one victory for the hypothesis. Also, I was
noticing that certain supernova explosions – in fact this was part
of what tipped me off about the superwave phenomena – that it
wasn’t just an explosion at the center of the galaxy, but
something came out and was actually triggering supernova
explosions as it moved out from the center.
KC: Oh, okay, so it’s actually affecting stars.
PLV: It affects stars, yes. Stars that are near ready to explode that
might be on the unstable part of their history, end up exploding.
For example, the Vela supernova remnant occurred at the time
when this superwave was moving through our area. The Vela is
the closest supernova remnant to the solar system, that’s of the
young remnants; and then the Crab Nebula which was 6,000
light-years farther away, so it occurred later.
It’s documented in the Chinese records of 1054 AD, July 4th
[laughs] as it turns out. That went off and it was seen.
You have to figure that it takes time for the light to come to us, so
it’s like 6,500 light-years away in the direction opposite to the
galactic center. So you have to allow about 6,500 years for the
superwave to get out there, then it triggers this, and there’s
another 6,500 or so years. That’s why we saw it more recently.
When I plotted the new supernova remnants, I found that they
tend to line up on this event horizon, as I call it. It’s actually an
ellipsoidal horizon when you plot it out with the Earth at one
focus and the galactic center at the other.
The reason for that – why isn’t it a sphere? Because if you think
of this, actually the superwave travels out as a sphere, a shell, but
for us, we have to allow for time for the radiation to reach us. So
if these cosmic ray electrons are generating radio waves at some
star system, you have to allow time for that radiation to reach us.
What you see is that there’s a shell of radio radiation out there
that we’re inside of that’s being generated by these superwave
cosmic rays as they go out and they interact with magnetic fields
and so on.
When you plot that on a graph, that model fits like a glove to
what’s called a cosmic radio background radiation, which is
acknowledged that it’s produced by cosmic rays, but scientists
didn’t really have a good explanation of why it’s there. You
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know, they were suggesting: Well, maybe these supernova
explosions go out and contribute. The superwave model
prediction fit better than anything that had been published before.
BR: Is that the same background radiation that most cosmologists
believe is evidence of The Big Bang?
PLV: No. That’s the microwave background you’re talking
about. This is the galactic radio background.
BR: Okay.
PLV: And more recently they found there’s also a galactic
gamma-ray background which is a diffuse emission and they
can’t explain why it is diffuse. They would expect if it was due to
stars, you should see clumps here and there of gamma-rays.
Instead, it’s very diffuse. And again, I believe that’s due to the
shell of cosmic rays going out.
The thing is that most of the energy from the superwave ends up
being directed outward from the galactic center, so once it passes
you, you don’t see it very easily. This radiation that we’re seeing,
that astronomers report, is only when the cosmic rays end up
getting caught in a magnetic field and they turn their searchlights
towards us.
In other words, they’re beaming that energy, that radio emission,
outward in the direction they’re traveling, but if they get caught
and turned around, we’ll see some of that. But that’s a small
fraction of those cosmic rays. We are very aware when it’s
happening. When it arrives suddenly, you know, we’re going to
see a bluish-white star in the sky similar to what the Hopis talk
about and we’ll see a lot of activity of sort of aurora-like things
around the heliopause, that shell around the solar system. We’ll
see auroral activity in our own magnetic field.
KC: What about the effects on DNA? Have you posited any
possible effects?
PLV: Well, if you figure the levels we’re talking about... because
you can’t postulate too great cosmic ray intensities because
otherwise, if that was the case, the surface of the Earth would be
radioactive, like you’d have huge carbon-14 levels. In fact that
was a restriction that I had to put into my model.
Looking at the levels that are reasonable, you would’ve had a
slight increase of mutation rate, maybe a doubling or tripling
mutation rate at that time.
However, it’s not really the superwave cosmic rays that are of
most concern. It’s the ones from the sun, because once the sun...
this is only in the case of very long-lasting superwaves where the
dust has come in and surrounded the sun long enough to
aggravate it into what we call a T Tauri star. Because we see stars
similar to our sun that are in dust cocoons that are very active and
spewing out coronal mass ejections and super solar flares.
So once the sun goes into that phase, and one of these very large
events – like extinction-level events – hits the Earth, then not
only are you dealing with major mutational change, but also
possible death if you happen to be caught outside when this
happens.
348
And it’s interesting, geologists have found a connection between
extinctions and magnetic reversals, and they couldn’t really
understand why is there this connection. If the Earth’s field went
to zero, you’d get maybe a doubling of the cosmic ray
background on the Earth, so that wouldn’t be enough to cause an
extinction; maybe it would accelerate a little the mutation rate.
But if both were due to a coronal mass ejection from the sun – it
was an extinction-level event – that would explain it. So they’re
both due to a third cause in that case; they’re not directly causally
related.
BR: It sounds very compelling, certainly to the degree that we
can talk with you about this on a non-scientific level, as it were,
but what measure of support and interest have you had from the
mainstream scientific community? PLV: I’ve been, for example,
to the Galaxy and Solar System Conference and there was also
the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston where I
gave a poster paper. I stood in front of a board where I had the
whole thing laid out and explained to people who would come up
and did talk with some fairly high-level cosmic ray
astrophysicists who found the whole idea very plausible.
I haven’t had anyone publish a paper against the theory. I was
hoping somebody would because I would have nailed their ears
to the wall. [laughs] I feel the evidence is so strong to support it.
Basically, in general, why aren’t they all coming on the
bandwagon? Well, it’s a major change of the paradigm. The
paradigm is that everything is calm out there; we don’t have
anything to worry about; you don’t want to get into catastrophism
because that makes you emotional; emotions shouldn’t be in
science; we shouldn’t be scared when we do science.
I don’t really get scared by this; I’m just studying the past. It’s
something, you know... You’re concerned, it’s something we
should know about, about our future. But science has
traditionally stayed away from these areas, anything dealing with
catastrophism. If you look at all the flack that the group from
Berkeley got when they made a discovery about the dinosaurs
being hit with a comet or asteroid... they were attacked by many
people, many geologists who felt that we should only do geology
based on what’s happening on the Earth: volcanoes, this sort of
thing.
And that was something 65 million years ago. Now you can
imagine what I’m talking about, just 13,000 years ago – or
16,000 – it’s within the realm of the human race and so people
are more fearful to join. They’re wondering: Well, if I write in
support of his theory, what’re the consequences for me?
But I have had my paper cited, that I published. I published in
refereed journals, in several well-known, in Monthly Notices, in
Astrophysics and Space Science, to name a few; EOS, which is
more of a scientific newsletter.
KC: Aren't you dealing with, also – I mean, this galactic
superwave, you’re also dealing with this kinetic physics?
PLV: Subquantum Kinetics?
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KC: Subquantum Kinetics, as being part of this galactic
superwave theory in some way, form, or fashion. If you’re
talking about subquantum physics, you’re also talking about what
is the aether made of, such that the galactic superwave will
impact or create... how it impacts space and how it impacts...
PLV: Well, aether’s a controversial topic which, indeed,
Subquantum Kinetics is an aether theory. But you don’t have to
bring that in for this superwave phenomenon. The superwave
phenomenon can be based totally in the current view of physics,
pretty much.
KC: I understand that, but I’m interested because you obviously
are thinking about both things, that there must be some kind of
place where they link up in your own mind, in theory.
PLV: Well, it was really my work in Subquantum Kinetics that
brought me to the discovery of the superwave phenomenon.
That’s through a long path. [laughs]
KC: Can you explain that in sort of easy terms to understand, at
all?
PLV: Well, I had been developing Subquantum Kinetics for
many years. I’d basically written up the early papers which I was
at the point of ready to submit. I had already submitted to a few
journals.
At the same time, in the meanwhile, I was studying ancient lore.
Back in 1975 I had discovered that the Tarot encodes concepts
very similar to what I was talking about in the physics. I did take
a class in Cambridge, Massachusetts, on the Tarot and as the
teacher was going, each Arcanum...
Now, the Tarot is a set of 22 cards that are used in fortune-telling,
but they date back to the Middle Ages from the Gypsies. The
earliest decks are attributed to the Gypsies, which had migrated
from India through Egypt. Esoteric scholars believe that they had
picked up the concepts from the Egyptian priests, prior to the
collapse of the priesthood.
In the very early days of the kingdoms of Egypt [when] the
priests were in power, they had an indoctrination into this ancient
science that explained how the universe was created. That these
concepts – at that time they were frescoes on the wall of the
chamber that the new priests were brought in and taught the
meanings – that these were later put into the Tarot deck.
KC: Can you trace one of those particular scientific concepts as
depicted in the Tarot and how that relates to kinetic...
PLV: Subquantum Kinetics? Well, Subquantum Kinetics is based
on process. It’s the idea of... It’s alchemical aether, basically. It’s
an aether that’s not static like the 19th century aether that physics
grew out of, but one more like, closer to Heraclitus’ concept. He
was an ancient Greek philosopher who said that all is process.
The closest is to think of the...
KC: Isn't that like saying: all is motion? Aren’t you talking about
everything being in motion?
349
PLV: That’s close to the idea but here it’s more a reaction. There
is motion, just like you have in a chemical solution. You have
molecules diffusing from one place to another place, but they’re
also reacting.
Basically it’s the same understanding you have for how your own
body works. How is it that the structure of our body is made from
the reactions and diffusions of chemicals?
So this is a very organic concept. It’s more like close to the
organic ideas of Star Wars, of The Force, very close, that the
galaxy’s bound together. The universe being bound together by a
fabric, an organic fabric. It’s sort of like every part of space that’s
ether is affecting every other part of space.
KC: Okay. And if I called it “energy,” would that be the same
thing?
PLV: I don’t use “energy” because I save that for
ElectroMagnetic waves. It’s energy-like but you can’t speak of
energy at the subquantum level.
KC: Oh, I see.
PLV: It’s some... There’s a prime mover, something that moves
this reaction forward. It’s uni-directional. It’s sort of like the
direction of Time in the big sense, capital T, moving forward.
KC: We have a secret witness that also talks about he's tapping
into what he calls the information field. And when we said: Is
that the same as the consciousness field? He would say: No,
because he thinks the consciousness field is, you know, is
individual-based whereas this thing he’s calling the information
field would encompass everything.
Is there any kind of way you could have a dialogue about that,
because this gets to signal non-locality, for example, if you’re
familiar with that.
PLV: My view is that to explain what’s here we have to postulate
higher dimensions and a flux of aether that we cannot directly
measure but only hypothesize. The way you know it’s there, there
are experiments that you can do that shows that there is an
absolute reference frame, that Relativity is wrong. I give many
experiments in my book.
In fact, the geopositioning system that the military uses is based
on the idea that light goes faster in the direction of the Earth’s
rotation than the opposite direction. If they didn’t accept that,
which is anti-relativistic, they would not locate people that are
forces on the Earth; they would maybe bomb the wrong embassy.
[laughs]
KC: Okay. So if you could explain in terms of, I don’t know if
you can do this, but in terms of your subatomic model, how can
you explain that to us on the basis of an experiment?
PLV: Well, there’s what’s called chemical waves. At the time I
was getting the idea for Subquantum Kinetics they’d just
published work on the Belousov-Zhabotinskii reaction, which is a
chemical reaction where you put some dyes in there that change
from red to blue, depending on the state of the reaction. And
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there’s a molecule, cerium, which can go between two valence
states.
As the reaction churns forward, cerium, in one given place and
space, oscillates. They call it chemical clocks.
So if you stir this up with a little stirrer, your reaction will change
from red to blue just like a clock and they call it the chemical
clock. But if you leave it unstirred and calm, it will form little
wave patterns sort of like a bull’s-eye pattern with, let’s say, a
blue center and a red ring, and then a blue ring, and so on, an
effect like...
KC: Meaning a spiral?
PLV: No. Actual concentric rings, like Atlantis? [laughs] In my
book, Genesis of the Cosmos, I suggest that the Atlantis myth is
actually they’re describing a subatomic particle, based on this
new physics.
Now, understand that my theory came out of systems theory. It
was only later I saw the connection with the ancient science that
was being discussed symbolically.
But getting back to the reaction, this would be red and blue
waves. They become spiral waves. In fact, they were on the cover
of this magazine, spiral waves, because they’re more artistically
appealing so that’s why they concentrated about spiral waves.
But that happens only when you give a little mechanical
disturbance so that the rings reconnect to form a spiral.
KC: I see. Uh-huh. So, how does this...?
PLV: Well, how does this relate? I thought: Well, this is an
interesting model for subatomic particles. I was reading
Einstein’s treatise in Scientific American. He was talking about
his difficulty in unifying electromagnetism and gravitation.
In there it talked about his view that there were no such things as
singularities, which would mean Einstein himself would be
against the Black Hole Theory. His reason was it would disrupt
the space-time fabric, which he believed should be continuous.
He believed particles were places of bunched energy, so to speak,
and I was saying: Well, here, this is looking like a bunching here
where you have a core with this wave pattern around so the core
is really a high concentration of a certain element.
And I was saying: Instead of working with molecules like you do
in chemistry, let’s come up with a new name: Aetherance
[spelling unclear; pronounces it ether-ahns] I initially called it
sub-physical units, but later I said: What the heck. Go all the way.
[laughs] Let’s forget about the taboos. The aether is an ancient
concept and people weren’t afraid of using it.
If you look at the real experimental evidence and stop regarding
science as a religion... You know, it is very religious, in some
ways, in the sense that existing physicists religiously believe in
their theories to the point of ignoring the evidence against them.
350
So you can imagine this soup of ‘etherance’ of different types: A,
B, C, D, and so on, reacting according to certain recipes. What I
did was come up with a set of reactions which I believed were
physically realistic.
In other words, they created physically-realistic particles that
produced electric and gravitational fields just like regular matter
that would obey the classical laws of electrostatics and
gravitation that would bind – have nuclear bonding – and also
have spin characteristics. That made certain predictions,
astronomical predictions, one being that light waves, that their
energy should not be constant but, over great distances of going
through intergalactic space, they should lose energy – in other
words, redshift. KC: Do they?
PLV: They do. That’s what’s called the cosmological redshift,
where scientists have interpreted a cosmological redshift as an
actual velocity effect due to a recession of a galaxy. In other
words, if the galaxy moves away, it would cause this effect,
which is a very mechanical, mechanistic interpretation.
The Tired Light Theory, as it’s called – the idea that light waves
lose energy as they travel – was proposed about the same time as
this other theory. But the thing was, they didn’t have a reason for
it to occur, another way to interpret it, and the more mechanistic
was more easily grasped, and so they went with that. That’s why
we have the expanding universe theory today.
I wrote a paper for the Astrophysical Journal in 1986, which is
the top journal in astrophysics – it’s the same one that Hubble
published in, the astronomer they attribute the expanding
universe to – and showed that, if you look at the data and
compare the expanding universe model to the stationary universe
model, with Tired Light Effect instead of motional effect, you
find that the Tired Light model always comes closer to your data.
I did it on four tests, and the reason I did it on four tests is that
when you adjust your model – because Big Bang theorists are
adjusting their model to fit the data because it never fits the data.
So if they want to adjust their model, it’s fine with me, but they
have to be consistent in what are its effects on these other tests.
And you find that their model ends up getting pushed further
from the data as soon as they try to adjust it here. That’s why
they’ll always publish on one test and not on four simultaneously.
KC: Okay, you’re talking about Tired Light. How does this relate
to your theory of kinetics – subquantum physics?
PLV: Well, that’s one of the predictions that came out of
Subquantum Kinetics. That was a testable prediction and I went
ahead and tested it by looking at the data to see did it support it or
was the Big Bang Theory correct? Because, at that time, I was
just like everyone else, believing in the Big Bang Theory, but I
wanted to give this a chance, and you know, slowly I realized:
My God! Subquantum Kinetics is right and all this other stuff is
baloney that they’ve been teaching.
KC: So what happens? Tired Light means you’re talking about
energy dissipating, right? Or changing form? PLV: Actually, in
Subquantum Kinetics, the energy actually leaves the physical
universe in the sense that the wave just diminishes in amplitude.
Energy is not a constant in Subquantum Kinetics. Why? Because
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Subquantum Kinetics proposes that the physical universe behaves
like an open system.
What is an open system? It’s like... we’re an open system,
biological organism. We must eat, have input and output; we
must breathe, we take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. If
those processes cease, we die.
The same with the chemical reaction model, the chemical waves.
You only see the waves as long as the chemical reactions are
taking place. As soon as they use up the food chemicals and they
go to equilibrium, the waves disappear, dematerialize, so to
speak.
So the same for this physics – the physical universe would
dematerialize if this flux, which we should all be thankful for in
my opinion, were to ever diminish or cease.
KC: Well then, between dimensions... I mean, I don’t know if
this is related, but, in theory, between dimensions, then, that’s
exactly what must happen. In order to dematerialize and move
between dimensions that energy has to dissipate, or come down
to zero, so that you can move to the next [dimension], because if
it dematerializes it goes into another dimension.
PLV: Okay, you’re talking about a physical being, like a human
being, wanting to...
KC: Maybe.
PLV: You're talking about the soul?
KC: Well, actually, what I’m thinking about is the ability for
even ghosts or ETs to go through walls. And now we’re actually
seeing movies in which, you know, the Powers That Be have
created – and I don’t know how they do it – but they create
techniques by which you can change the composition of a wall
such that you can go through it.
PLV: Yes. This is something that’s possible...
KC: This model works on the subatomic level that you’re talking
about.
PLV: Subquantum.
KC: Okay, well then it has to work all the way up. Right? To the
fact that you get to the larger particles, bodies...
PLV: Yeah. With Subquantum Kinetics, you can explain
dematerialization and re-materialization. This is something that’s
easily done.
KC: Okay.
PLV: It involves a change of the gravity potential. If you were to
increase the gravity potential enough, an object would
dematerialize. Or at first it would become invisible which means
if you look at a...
351
KC: Change the gravity such that it become heavier or lighter?
PLV: It would be lighter.
KC: Okay.
PLV: Like the sun is in a gravity well. The sun is in a very
materialized state. [laughs] If we were to go out into space way
far from the galaxy, because the galaxy itself is in a gravity well,
we would go into the area where I was saying photons lose
energy, this Tired Light Effect. Everything there would tend
towards a homogeneous state [and] would tend to dematerialize.
If the opposite effect is within the galaxy, instead of having light
losing energy, it gains energy here. It’s the opposite, and you
have blueshifting of light. In fact, I made a prediction. I called up
JPL in 1980. I said: Have you seen anything with your signals to
your spacecraft, microwave signals, maybe a slight blueshifting
of the signal?
[They] said: Well, no. We haven’t really looked for such a thing.
[I] said: Well, keep an eye open, see what you see, because if so,
it would support my theory.
So right about seven years later or so, eight years later, they start
noticing... Oh, by the way, I published this in 1985 as a test of my
theory that if you did a test, sending a microwave signal from
Earth to Jupiter, to a spacecraft in Jupiter, and relayed it back,
you’d find the energy was slightly higher. And I said: How
much? Because my theory would predict what that amount of
increase would be.
Well, about seven or eight years later, they start noticing
something is a little peculiar in our data, it’s becoming
blueshifted; it’s as if there’s a force pushing the spacecraft
towards the sun.
They finally published this in 1998 and it became known as The
Pioneer Effect. Then they published further information four
years later.
Now, there have been thousands, literally thousands of papers
written by physicists about the Pioneer Effect, trying to explain it,
what it is. There’s only one paper published before it was
discovered that predicted it, and that was in my publication of
Subquantum Kinetics. It was published in 1985 in the
International Journal of General Systems.
KC: So did JPL come find you when you were proven correct?
PLV: I sent a copy of my book marked where I made the
prediction. I actually took a picture of the original journal and
marked where it was stated, and also sent a copy of my book
which further explained, to the head man on that publication team
at JPL.
Basically it was ignored. He didn’t even send me a preprint of his
paper that I requested. So all I had was the news announcement.
He never told me, you know: Well, it’s going to be published in
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this journal on this page. He never told me that. And I was never
mentioned four years later in a follow-up paper.
So, you know, my experience is that the average physicist or
NASA scientist or astronomer is a cowboy. He’s interested in his
own theories, not in yours. If he confirmed yours... he’s not
interested. [laughs] That’s the way it works.
BR: Yeah. It's worked like that for a long time.
KC: Okay, but the implications of what you discovered could
point to the reality of other dimensions. As you say,
dematerialization. Actually, you may be on the road to explaining
how other dimensions could exist.
PLV: Right. Subquantum Kinetics is a Unified Field Theory. It
explains all the forces that unified field theories deal with, and it
fits together like a Swiss watch. Relativity effects come out of it
as corollaries; you don’t have to postulate ad hoc like Einstein
was saying.
There are now twelve predictions that were previously published
that said things entirely different from what physicists were
saying, that were later verified by observation. So, certain things
it has predicated were confirmed, and I don’t know of anything
that’s said so far that’s been disproved.
It gives you a lot of encouragement to believe that we’ve got
something here. Plus the fact, looking at General Relativity, it
had only three predictions that were confirmed. Now we’re
dealing here with twelve.
Plus, you find that ancient civilizations had this physics. They
went to a lot of trouble to encode it in some of their most
important creation myths that historians have written about. It’s
even encoded in the Zodiac even though the Zodiac is used for
horoscopes.
One of the main technologies used in field propulsion, this exotic
propulsion that’s developed in black projects. In fact, the B2
bomber, I discussed in my recent book Secrets of Antigravity
Propulsion. I explain how the B2 bomber uses Brown’s research
and patents. Basically it’s based on his ideas.
So with Subquantum Kinetics, it’s not just explaining Brown’s
work but a whole host of other technologies, too, like John
Surrell’s [sp unknown] technology [or] Eugene Podkletnov’s
gravity impulse beam which, he's able to produce gravity
impulses from electric shock discharges which are gravity
impulses collimated, can go for kilometers and kilometers staying
together.
And he’s found it actually travels superluminally. So this could
be the centerpiece of a superluminal propulsion engine.
From what I’ve seen, I’ve seen actual demonstrations of
superluminal shock propagation in the laboratory – Guy
Obolensky’s work. And with this technology of Podkletnov’s, I
would say it’s possible to do superluminal space travel, which
completely changes our outlook of interstellar communication
and interaction with other beings. It is possible that they could
actually travel here.
352
Another thing that comes out of Subquantum Kinetics is it
completely changes what we think is possible for energy, and you
find these technologies where they’re getting energy out of water
like John Eckel’s patent that they’re developing in the UK. They
say they’ll have a hot water heater out in the next year-and-a-half
or so.
Or Randell Mills’ invention produced by Black Light Power
company. He’s got something like 20 of these prototypes being
tested that he believes will produce 50 kilowatts of power for
your average house.
These are explained by Subquantum Kinetics because
Subquantum Kinetics leads to a revision of quantum mechanics.
There’s a flaw in quantum mechanics. Even though quantum
mechanics is workable, the model is incorrect; the wave-packet
model is incorrectly formulated.
When you go to the Subquantum Kinetics version, you get the
same results. It explains experiments with the same mathematics,
essentially, but it allows the possibility for ground-states in the
hydrogen atom that are more levels of energy in the hydrogen
atom. It allows the hydrogen electron to jump down and release
energy that we thought wouldn’t be there. That’s what these
various scientists have tapped into with their inventions.
So Subquantum Kinetics leads to the development of a lot of new
energy sources that would be considered alternative energy.
BR: It’s hard to understand why other quantum physicists haven’t
picked up your work with a lot of enthusiasm. What’s your
explanation for this? Is it because it’s too big a scope, or it’s too
grand [unclear]?
PLV: It’s that. It’s too big a shift. New theories are picked up if
you’re not changing the basic structure, the basic paradigm. If it’s
a new idea within the existing paradigm, it will be very quickly
picked up if it’s going to explain things better.
I’m talking about basically wiping the slate clean as far as
theories go, most theories, most modern theories. You can keep
some of the classic equations, Newton’s equations and so on.
But...
BR: Maxwell’s equations?
PLV: Well, Maxwell’s... no. It even revises that. You have to
look at Maxwell’s equations as a model of a phenomenon; it
explains electromagnetic wave propagation in a different way.
For one thing, Maxwell’s equations, at least the accepted version,
have energy being conserved. It means that energy of a photon
can neither increase, nor decrease, whereas here, as we were
saying earlier, over great distances you will see a change.
There are a set of principles which are considered sacred in
physics. One is the First Law of Thermodynamics, this idea that
energy cannot be changed, only converted.
KC: And you’re changing that law, really, are you not?
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PLV: Right. And I can show technologies which you can perform
in your back yard garage which show a violation of energy
conservation.
Some of these electrostatic thrusters like Jean-Louis Naudin has
on his website – some LaForgue thrusters – they’re basically
asymmetrical capacitors that he’s got in a pinwheel arrangement.
When you calculate how much energy he’s putting in to drive
that pinwheel, it’s a lot less than the motion he’s getting out of it.
He’s getting out about three times more motional energy than the
electric...
BR: It has to be an open system, to go back to what you were
saying before.
PLV: The universe. Yeah. As soon as you view the universe as an
open system, you have to realize that energy’s not necessarily
conserved. Pretty much all system theorists will agree with you.
If your physics is postulating an open system for the universe,
then you do have the possibility of matter or energy increasing or
decreasing in amount in a physical universe.
The thing is that this is like just a small shadow on the... sort of
an epiphenomenon of this vast flux that’s going on below the
level of observation, so that’s where your real energy... It’s not
energy, it’s action. In other words, just for this table, this stool, or
chair to be there requires an enormous expenditure of action,
subquantum flux, which is totally invisible to us and we only
infer that it’s there through a series of conceptual models and
understandings.
BR: Are you able to theoretically predict the physics behind an
overunity engine as a result of this? Can you predict how to
design one before you start tinkering in your garage with this?
PLV: It could lead to some predictions of that sort, but the way
it’s generally worked with me is I’ve read about people’s work in
this area and find that I can explain what they’re finding with
Subquantum Kinetics.
BR: Okay, yeah. Sorry, perhaps I didn’t form my question in the
right way. What I really meant was, from your theoretical
understanding, could you predict which engineering approaches
are more likely to be successful?
PLV: Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I think that with this physics, you
can explain a lot of the technologies they’re developing in the
Black Projects for field propulsion. I wouldn’t be surprised if a
lot of my readers are in the Black Projects. I would have no way
of knowing, but...
KC: [laughs] Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.
PLV: They were actually working on aether theories in the ’50s
to explain electrogravitics. Townsend Brown was developing an
aether theory. They were working on one at Douglas Aircraft
which, apparently, they ditched and it eventually was declassified
somehow. Maybe it was just some notes that somebody had that
were supposed to be classified, but they were leaked out.
From conversations I’ve had with some Black Projects engineers
who acknowledged that, to them, the aether is real, that they
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realize the faults of Relativity. When they recruit, they prefer that
the people they’re recruiting haven’t had their minds polluted
with current physics. They try to get them at an early age.
BR: That’s exactly what we’d heard is that they've got some very,
very bright, astute minds.
KC: Yeah.
PLv: And it’s actually to the advantage of keeping the secrecy
that they would see it’s good for them to keep teaching the
baloney in the universities that they realize is wrong because
what they’re doing is impossible in that frame of mind, and it’s
very difficult for people to get out of that. It’s sort of like asking
the goldfish to discharge its tank of water. It’s not going to want
to do that very easily.
BR: Oh, sure. But it must be immensely personally frustrating for
you to consider the possibility that your work may well, not only
be correct, but be taken to levels which you’d love to be in on.
And yet you’re locked out of this because maybe they’re
considering they don’t need you, they understand it already.
That’s the kind of expediency that they would...
PLV: I’ve actually be asked to participate in one project that was
being formed, gotten off the ground, but I saw that it was going
to be secret even though they were intending it to eventually be
open, but you never really can be sure what will be the result.
[laughs]
KC: So why did you stand back from that? What was your
motivation?
BR: I guess there's the risk of being locked in on the wrong side
of the door.
PLV: Yeah, when you start working in secrecy, you feel a little
stifled.
KC: Are you that rare thing, a “Scientist with a Conscience?” Is
that why?
PLV: I guess you’d say so. Yeah.
KC: And is that a result of your parents’ influence, would you
say, to some degree, or something else?
PLV: Oh yeah. I would say that’s part of it. You know, it’s just
me, I guess. My interest is in helping humanity. I’m interested in
the truth and not living in some dream, some belief system that
other people are telling you and it doesn’t fit the data.
KC: Also the elite, in other words, the elitism around using
technology or using the truth only for a certain group of people,
perhaps, is going against the grain?
PLV: Yeah. The thing is, who is controlling the Black Projects?
As soon as they’re black, I mean, they’re not even acknowledged
by Congress or whatever government has them. Somebody’s
pulling the strings and there are some people that suggest they
aren’t even from Earth, if you believe...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Now, can we get back to... I mean, you did say that you had
some kind of contact experience that affected you. Are you able
to describe that in some detail to us?
PLV: Well, it was basically an inner experience I had when I was
at Johns Hopkins in my junior year. I felt that it was information
coming into me.
I was in a certain mental state; I felt there were intelligences from
the plant kingdom. I felt they were terrestrial, that the trees were
talking to me – the vegetation kingdom of Earth – that was
concerned about the way we were going. They were concerned
also about being wiped out by the progress of human societies,
like we’re out of control here with growth. Sort of like the movie
Koyaanisqatsi, that whole concept.
At the same time they were giving me the basic understanding
that the basis of existence is flux. Because if you have flux, you
can always produce structure.
In other words, if the flux goes in a loop, now you have
something that exists over time because it’s the same and the
same. Whereas if you start with structure, structure itself doesn’t
imply flux because you’re dealing with something that’s static.
Why should it move? It’s static.
So that’s the beauty of flux. And that shifted my whole
perspective, and I started on this quest of understanding nature,
developing my own system theory before I knew there was such
a thing as System Theory.
That eventually lead into development of physics, this
Subquantum Kinetics which I developed while I was studying
business, actually, at University of Chicago. There was a course
on Organization Theory and we were asked to write a term paper.
The course was studying General System Theory and viewing
businesses as open systems.
It was in this experience where I started melding the idea of open
systems with Einstein’s article that I had read, and chemical
waves, and so on, and suddenly had this epiphany. The paper
didn’t end up being on business. [laughs] The professor, who had
a behavioral psychological background, ended up giving it to a
friend of his, who had a physics background, to evaluate.
KC: And the rest, as they say, is history. [laughs] Because that
sounds like it propelled you into the direction you’ve gone on.
PLV: Yeah. I remember I had a sort of what you’d call a
kundalini experience during that where I was awake all night
writing, and then I’d sleep during the day and get up late
afternoon and be walking around in the mall, the university, the
grass area between the buildings, and would look at a tree and I
could see this energy flux in the tree, or the stone looked like it
was alive.
Sort of like the view of the shaman Indians because it completely
shifts your perspective when you go to this. It’s more close to the
Hindu idea of maya. That maya is illusion; the physical is an
illusion that’s just... we’re waves on this... The real essence is the
ether which is non-material.
354
BR: Is that connected with David Bohm’s Implicate Order?
PLV: It’s close. The concepts of Subquantum Kinetics are similar
in some respects to David Bohm’s theory, but David Bohm’s
working in General Relativity, a relativistic framework. He hasn’t
completely wiped the slate clean here.
I accept some of his concepts, like his idea of stochastic
fluctuations as a representation of zero-point energy that this is
not just the idea of probabilism in quantum mechanics, is not just
some equation you’re writing, but it has a real basis in some
thing, some medium, having stochastic behavior there. In this
case I would say it’s the aether.
But I use different terms. I speak of the implicit order and the
explicit order. The implicit order is the etheric order. It’s ordered
in the sense of the reaction pathways that are very defined.
The explicit order is the wave order that we see, that we’re able
to see. We need waves to see other waves, you know; everything
is waves. So that’s the quantum realm.
The subquantum is the implicit order and the quantum is the
explicit order and the explicit order evolves out of the implicit
order. The reason why we have a particle – it’s a wave pattern,
subatomic particles – the reason that exists is because you have
this cyclical yin/yang sort of reaction going on at the subquantum
level, so it’s just a manifestation of what’s already there. It just
emerges.
BR: Yes.
PLV: It leads to a continuous creation cosmology.
BR: Sure.
PLV: So that matter is being continuously created, even this
moment. It’s not something that happened all at once like the Big
Bang Theory says. It’s going on, especially at the highest rate at
the center of the galaxy, but also within stars and planets.
KC: Well, what about the idea that it’s going on outside of the
galaxy in other... Like there’s the theory of Ananda Bosman
talking about what he calls the Great Magnetic Attractor, that
there is other... And you’re saying that within the galaxy there’s a
black hole, or whatever, it’s not a black hole, but you’re saying
it's...?
PLV: Mother Star, I call it.
KC: Okay.
PLV: A very old star. It’s the oldest star in the galaxy.
KC: So beyond this... Because there’s lots of galaxies, right? So
do you go beyond that?
PLV: Yeah. Every galaxy is creating matter and energy and if
that continues, these galaxies will grow and grow. They’ll spawn
other galaxies because they’ll eject star clusters. You know,
every time the core explodes, it ejects star clusters. That’s what
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populates the halo of the galaxy. Some of these, if they’re very
large ejections, will actually be small galactic nuclei that will end
up spawning another galaxy.
Think of the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds that are very
close. They could have been ejections from our own galactic
core, or maybe they just happened to nucleate close by, but you
do see some that look like they came out of from the core of a
mother galaxy. Halton Arp, an astronomer, talks about this, that
some of these look as if they were ejections from active cores.
But eventually you could say – an extreme – maybe the whole
universe becomes filled with matter and energy. It’s very
possible, before it would even get to that point, that the set-point
that’s causing all this creation would change, you know,
something that might have a period of several hundred-trillion
years, like in the Hindu view.
Hindu mythology talks about Vishnu waking up every so many
hundred-trillion years and everything dematerializes. All of the
maya is withdrawn and everyone realizes all along we were
Vishnu, we were this Essence.
KC: But is it possible there could be, then, another eruption?
PLV: Yeah. This idea that not only we have cycles in terms of
core explosions, but also the whole universe goes through a cycle
of creation and dissolution.
BR: So you’re no fan of the standard Big Bang Theory?
PLV: Well, it’s interesting that they had it right in one way –
there are big bangs, but they’re at the centers of galaxies. There
wasn’t a single Big Bang creating everything.
And, interestingly, these big bangs are associated with creation
because the creation rate is the highest in the Mother Star, as I
call it, in the core of the galaxy and that's really going out of
control. It’s like a nuclear reactor going super-critical where it
ends up going into a very active state, expelling.
All this matter and energy that had been created for thousands of
years is now expelled, and as this is moved away out from the
core, then the gravity potential field that was gradually getting
deeper and deeper around the core now comes up a bit and it
cools off, the reaction cools off. Because, like I was saying, in
Subquantum Kinetics this whole creation process is tied to the
level of gravity potential, so that’s why there’s a cycle involved.
Creation’s always going on, but then it gets really extreme and
goes through this outburst, and then things subside. It’s almost
like with a volcano that releases the pressure that’s built up
underneath and then it goes into a quiescent period.
BR: Going back to Maxwell and electrogravitics, have you
spoken with Tom Bearden?
PLV: We met. We were talking more about his free energy
device, which I don’t know if he’s actually got it working at this
point. Actually, there’s some concepts that are similar. Bearden
has some similar thinking on some areas to Subquantum Kinetics,
but we haven’t really discussed it.
355
BR: Okay.
KC: Okay. But rather than drill down there, because we need to
wrap this up, is there a way we could kind of pull in some of
these threads into something that would kind of make sense in
terms of where you might be going now with your work, and
why?
PLV: Well, like right now I’m writing a paper on the mass
extinction at the end of the Ice Age which I believe was due to a
solar cause, a coronal mass ejection striking the Earth. I’m
hoping that by advancing in various areas... it’s sort of like a
front that you’re pushing in various places. Like, before, I was
writing more on the Subquantum Kinetics, now it’s more close to
climatology and catastrophism.
In the hopes that some advance will get people very excited, I’m
hoping this will get them excited and attract more attention to
what I’ve been saying.
KC: Well, what about the idea of... are you thinking that you
might be getting close to some kind of model of consciousness
itself?
PLV: I have done work on that, too, as the Feeling-Tone Theory
model that I developed in the ’80s based on Bill Gray’s work,
who’s a systems psychologist / psychiatrist, and melded his idea
that thought is really based on feeling-tones, spirit – really,
feelings, when you get down to it – and was able to explain how
those feeling-tones emerge into a thought, using concepts which
are similar to what I use to develop Subquantum Kinetics.
A system theorist can go at a very abstract level and bring stuff
from one field into another which is what I did there. That theory
also matched very closely with a lot of neuro-physiological data,
a wide spectrum. It was sort of like hitting the target eleven
times. [laughs]
We did some consulting to Hughes Aircraft which used that as
their way of enhancing creativity and I was later told that they
saved $40-million dollars using this approach, if you put some
price on the increase of creativity that resulted.
KC: Yeah.
PLV: I think it’s safe to talk about that since Hughes Aircraft
isn’t around anymore.
KC: In theory.
PLV: It’s all been broken up.
BR: It would nice to be rewarded with a few percent of that
added value. [laughter]
PL: Yeah. I mean, Starburst could do a lot more in contacting the
scientific community and attending conferences if we had our
coffers full. [laughs]
BR: Yeah. I read, for instance, that there’s some just routine
scientific work that is expensive but accepted like, for instance,
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
mass spectrographic analysis of ice core samples. That would
really do a lot to bolster your theory but it just hasn’t been done
because it’s so expensive and you’re working on your own.
PLV: Yeah. In fact, this theory of the mammoths and mammals
being wiped out by a coronal mass ejection -- it wasn’t just one.
There was a series over a several thousand year period, but there
was one real major one that sort of ended it.
You can test that. I’ve located the place in the ice core. All we
need to do then is sample for beryllium-10 and see the beryllium-
10 spike up at that time; look also at carbon-14 in sediment cores.
These are things that can be done to test the theory, so I’m hoping
once I get this published, I can convince some others, some
colleagues, that we team up and do this.
BR: Right. Because that’s simple stuff. I mean, scientifically
speaking, that’s simple stuff.
KC: Okay. Well, let’s say that maybe this interview will kind of
go towards that direction of attracting people to you that could
make these things possible for more investigation in all of these
areas that you’re working in. But I want to thank you very much
for taking the time to explain this to us in a way that we could
understand it, which I think you did well, and hopefully, we can
learn more about your theories and also the applications of those
and see what pans out in the future.
BR: And we do know that are some smart people in high places
who do watch our videos because they’re never quite sure what
we’re going to come out with [laughter] and they watch us quite
carefully.
KC: That’s right.
BR: And these are not necessarily bad guys. These are smart guys
and they're good guys and it’s entirely possible...
KC: Some of them.
BR: Some of them are. And it’s entirely possible that if your
work hasn’t come fully to their attention, it may just give them a
little prod to take another good look at what you have to offer
here.
PLV: You know, what you mentioned about you heard from this
fellow who was in touch with a black project, or he was a black
projects engineer and talking about space travel with
superluminal spaceships?
KC: Right.
PLV: I wouldn’t be surprised if part of that is misinformation. I
don’t think it was our superluminal spaceship he’s talking about.
It was from an ET civilization; they’ve been in touch with ETs
who told them this.
BR: Entirely possible, and that may have been entirely accidental
because he may well have been relating that story second- or
third-hand, but the principle is that he said: There is a wave
coming.
356
He couldn’t describe it exactly. He wasn’t a physicist, actually.
He was an operative rather than an engineer. He said he thought
the timescale was more like 2017, but he did say that
superluminal craft had been out taking a look at it and reported
what was going on.
He said it could... I think his words were something like: It could
just be a puff of wind or it could turn the Earth on its axis, but
nobody really knows what’s going to happen.
PLV: Well, I recently deciphered a crop circle, the Avalon one
from 2008 that shows the solar system, the planets, arranged as
they would be in 2012.
KC: Right.
PLV: I think I remember reading something, or you were talking
about this: Hey! You know, Pluto’s not where it should be.
KC: David Wilcock uses that in one of his talks.
BR: [overtalk] It’s obviously in the wrong place.
PLV: Right, because I know one fellow who’s believing that this
means a superwave will arrive in 2012 and he’s actually working
with people to build a shelter down in Australia right now,
expecting that this will hit in 2012.
But my reaction is, why would they put that obvious error in
there? So I looked at it and noticed in the diagram that appeared
one week later that shows what looks like Neptune’s orbit, that
circle, and it’s marked, which seems to represent Pluto’s
crossing-point on Neptune’s orbit.
Then it’s got a little elliptical diagram with little circles, as if
dividing it in eleven equal parts, and to me that’s an elliptical
exaggeration of Pluto’s orbit – so that we don’t mistake it as a
circle – showing eleven subdivisions of Pluto’s orbit. If you take
the period of Pluto’s orbit and you divide it by eleven, you come
to the amount that Pluto’s displaced in that crop circle.
BR: Okay. Yeah.
PLV: And if you add that to 2012, you come to 2035 AD with the
exact date, June 8th, when that crop circle appeared. In other
words, it would have been 27 years into the future from 2008,
which is interesting.
BR: Okay.
PLV: So what are they saying? Does that mean that’s when a
superwave will arrive? Will it be the time when the current one
will end? That it might arrive 2012? Or what? We don’t know.
But there is something on the pulsar diagram that even before this
happened I had written about it on my website. Somebody had
discovered that, having read my book, they wrote me an email
and said: By the way, did you know that the periods you put, you
attracted our attention to the Crab and Vela Pulsars – which are
these two supernova remnants which are very important, close to
us, and in addition the Vulpecula Pulsar. I had stated the periods
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for these three, that they sort of form a symbolic arrow, if you
understand the pulsar diagram, as I call it – that the periods are
very close to the Fibonacci series which creates the Golden
Mean?
And sure enough, if you take the ratios of the two longer-period
ones, they come to the Golden Mean ratio, to within that. It’s 10-
5
, the difference; in other words, one hundred thousandth is the
deviation from that being perfect.
BR: Hmm. That’s pretty close.
PLV: But you notice that the Crab period is significantly off –
and this is assuming if the second is the universal standard in
extraterrestrial communication now, because I’m suggesting that
the pulsars are an extraterrestrial message that pulsars at 33
milliseconds – so it’s really 34 is the number you come up with
in the Fibonacci series.
So if you say: When would the Crab Pulsar have that period
where it ends up being 34 milliseconds? Well, it’s in the future
by so many years and it comes out not very far from this 2035
date; I was coming up with something like 2037 or so, 2038. So it
seems like something’s going on here. It’s interesting.
PLV: Yeah. I think there’s not enough information to
immediately conclude that they’re telling us we will be hit by a
superwave in 2012, although a lot of people have contacted me
who’ve said they’ve been in telepathic contact with ETs who are
telling them: 2012 – a superwave will arrive.
In fact, one fellow said he had this ET contact and they were
telling him about cosmic ray wave coming and he wanted to
know more information about it so they said: Well, just look up
the work of Paul L. [laughter]
So he did a surf on it with Google and found my work. I don't
know if this is true. Maybe they’re aware of my website. I don’t
know... up there.
[laughter]
KC: Okay, so that’s a great place to end. Thank you, that’s
lovely. Thank you very much, Paul LaViolette.
PLV: Mm-hm.
BR: Wonderful. Thank you.

KC: Right. So there’s some kind of message there but you’re

actually deciphering it differently than some of the 2012
enthusiasts, if you will.

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Subquantum Kinetics
(a nontechnical summary)
Dr. Paul LaViolette
Subquantum kinetics is a novel microphysics paradigm that
incorporates concepts developed in the fields of system theory
and nonequilibrium thermodynamics. One of its distinctive
features is that it begins at the subquantum level for its point of
departure. By comparison, conventional physics and most
alternative physics theories begin with mathematically quantified
observations of physical phenomena at the quantum and
macrophysical level and attempt to deduce physical theories
based on those observations. Since the conventional approach
must take into account numerous experimental observations, the
end result is a fragmented and often contradictory set of theories
which must later be sewn together with mathematical acrobatics.
Such "unified field theories" more closely resemble a patchwork
quilt than a contiguous fabric.
In choosing an adequate model to represent subquantum process,
subquantum kinetics turns to the macroscopic natural world, to
theories describing how certain reaction systems spontaneously
evolve well-ordered wave patterns. This self-organization
phenomenon, for example, is seen in the Belousov-Zhabotinskii
reaction, a chemical reaction first discovered in 1958. Slowly
moving concentration fronts called chemical waves, or "reaction-
diffusion waves," can be discerned when a dye indicator is added
to this reacting solution.
The Belousov-Zhabotinskii reaction. A dye indicator elucidates wave-
like zones of regularly alternating chemical ion concentration that
spontaneously arise in the reacting solution.
(Photo courtesy of Arthur Winfree)
Wave patterns and wave motion may also be produced
mechanically, as is commonly experienced in the movement of
water waves or in the vibrations of a violin string. Early physical
theories, in fact, proposed mechanical ether models in an attempt
to describe phenomena such as light wave propagation.
However, such models lead to very different assumptions about
primary creation. A mechanical universe cannot arise
358
spontaneously; it instead requires the miraculous occurrence of a
precursor initiating energy impulse arising inexplicably out of a
state of non-existence. Such mechanical models are inadequate
for the approach outlined here which postulates an orderly and
explicable process of matter and energy creation out of a pre-
existing subquantum continuum.
Instead of beginning with physical observations, subquantum
kinetics begins by postulating a set of well-ordered reaction
processes that are proposed to take place at the subquantum level.
Collectively, these reaction processes compose what is termed
the transmuting ether, an active substrate that is quite different
from the passive mechanical ethers considered in the eighteenth
and nineteenth centuries. It further proposes that the
concentrations of the substrates composing this ether are the
energy potential fields that form the basis of all matter and
energy in our universe. The operation of these ether reactions
causes wave-like field gradients (spatial concentration patterns)
to emerge and form the observable quantum level structures and
physical phenomena (e.g., subatomic particles with mass, charge,
spin, and force field effects and electromagnetic waves).
So, subquantum kinetics: a) begins with a mathematical model of
subquantum processes; b) it then computer simulates this model
to generate quantum level phenomena; and c) it compares the
model's simulated results to actual observations. The model's
mathematical parameters are then "fine-tuned" so that its
simulated results accurately reflect experimental observation,
thereby making the model a realistic representation of the
physical world. Because, it begins with a single reaction system
model as its point of departure for describing essentially all
observable physical phenomena, subquantum kinetics qualifies as
a unified theory. By comparison, conventional physics begins
with many theories conceived independently from one another
and later attempts to "sew" these together. But the result is far
from unified, being instead a self-contradictory aglomeration.
Subquantum kinetics was partly inspired from work done on a
reaction kinetic model known as the Brusselator. This two-
variable model holds the distinction in the field of reaction-
kinetics of being an archetypal reaction-kinetic oscillator
comparable in simplicity to the simple harmonic oscillator of
wave mechanics. That is, it is the simplest reaction system
known to produce wave patterns that have well-defined
wavelength properties. To arrive at a model that produces a
physically realistic simulation of quantum structures, the
Brusselator must be modified into the three-variable reaction
system known as Model G. Hence in proposing Model G as a
descriptor of the subquantum processes that generate physical
order, subquantum kinetics takes concepts that have been
developed in the well-established field of nonlinear chemical
kinetics and applies them to the domain of microphysics.
The subquantum kinetics paradigm avoids many of the pitfalls of
conventional physics and astronomy theories and interprets
physical phenomena in a distinctively different manner. A listing
of the numerous problems of the conventional paradigm and how
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
subquantum kinetics resolves them is presented in the following that chemical wave concentration patterns form in the Belousov-
tables below. Zhabotinskii reaction.

The Transmuting Ether

A -----» G
Subquantum kinetics proposes the existence of a primordial G -----» X
transmuting ether composed of subtle "etheron" particles. These B + X -----» Y + Z
continually react with one another in prescribed manners and also
diffuse through space. Potentially, there may be many 2 X+ Y -----» 3X
subquantum reactions taking place in the transmuting ether, but Y -----»
only a few of these may be important for describing the origin of MODEL G
the fields composing the matter and energy of our universe. This
relevant subset of ether reactions (Model G) is described by just
five kinetic equations. These describe the recursive conversion • Ether inputs: A and B
of X etherons into Y etherons and Y etherons back into X • Ether outputs: Z and
etherons. Under certain conditions, this continually operating • Ether intermediates: G, X, and Y
cycle spontaneously forms wave patterns composed of
reciprocally varying X and Y ether concentrations, the (variables whose concentration patterns form physical matter and
concentration of the third ether variable, G, varying in step with energy)
that of X. The X and Y ether concentration variations in space
represent measurable electric potential fields and G ether The transmuting ether is the wellspring of Creation. If this
concentration variations represent measurable gravitational continual activity were to diminish, your physical body, your
potential fields. These waves comprise the subatomic particles house, the Earth, the Sun, the countless planets and stars filling
and energy waves that form the basis of the physical world. Thus the vast expanse of space, in fact, all the subatomic particles and
matter and energy waves are simply periodic variations in the energy waves composing our physical universe would gradually
concentrations of three reacting ether substrates (X, Y, and G), or dissipate, disolving into a state of uniformity. What would remain
from a physical standpoint, they consist of periodic electric and would be the ever-present, vast, and unfathomable multi-
gravitational potential fields. Matter and energy may be viewed dimensional consciousness, of which we are a part, and whose
as forming out of the transmuting ether in much the same way now featureless calm "surface" had once generated our beautiful
physical universe.

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Comparison to Quantum Theory and Field Theory

Conventional Physics Subquantum Kinetics

1 Special and general relativity are disproven by the Sagnac, The subquantum kinetics (SQK) ether concept is supported by the
Silvertooth, and Ampere force law experiments. Sagnac, Silvertooth, and Ampere force law experiments.

2 Special relativity suffers from the twin clock paradox and the SQK avoids this problem.
light-source-velocity paradox.

3 Classical field theory is plagued by the field-particle SQK avoids this problem.
dualism.

4 Classical field theory suffers from the infinite energy SQK avoids this problem.
absurdity.

5 The wave packet model used in quantum mechanics to SQK avoids this problem. Field patterns composing a subatomic particle
model a subatomic particle has the problem of gradually remain structurally coherent over time, even when the particle is
spreading out. Also it cannot model a particle at rest. stationary.

6 Is plagued by the nonintuitive wave-particle dualism SQK avoids this problem. Subatomic particles naturally incorporate wave
concept. aspects in their structure.

7 Does not explain what charge and mass are, or how they SQK explains what they are and how they generate such fields.
generate electric and gravitational fields.

8 Fails to account for experiments showing that gravitational SQK explains such experiments. Allows the possibility of antigravity
fields may be electrostatically induced. Considers propulsion.
antigravity an impossibility.

9 Maxwellian electrodynamics fails to explain the induction of SQK explains the induction of both transversely polarized Hertzian waves
Tesla waves, nonpolarized longitudinal energy waves. and Tesla waves.

10 Advocates the nonintuitive notion that natural events are Retains the commonsense notion of causality. Nonlocal superluminal
inherently indeterminate. Accepts the Copenhagen interactions explain the EPR experiment results. Maintains that the
Interpretation of the Uncertainty Relation. Uncertainty Relation is merely a statement about the limitations inherent
to quantum level observation.

11 Quantum electrodynamics and general relativity, two pillars SQK avoids this problem. All fields (electrostatic, magnetic, gravitational,
of conventional field theory, contradict one another, a nuclear) are encompassed within a single internally consistent theory.
problem known as the cosmological constant conundrum.

12 General relativity is fatally flawed in that it allows the SQK avoids this problem.
formation of cosmologically disruptive naked singularities.

Comparison to Cosmology and Astrophysics

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Conventional Cosmology & Subquantum Kinetics

Astrophysics

1 The big bang theory proposes the counterintuitive notion that Subquantum kinetics (SQK) avoids this problem. Proposes that physical
the universe emerged out of a state of nonexistence. form emerged from a preexisting ether substrate.

2 Fails to explain how subatomic particles originate. It merely SQK explains in detail how subatomic particles arise from subquantum
postulates that they form out of the vacuum. fluctuations in the ether.

3 Fails to explain why our universe is made up of matter as SQK predicts a matter/ antimatter bias to particle materialization.
opposed to antimatter.

4 Introduces the ad hoc assumption that the universe is SQK naturally predicts a tired-light cosmological redshift effect without
expanding, in order to account for the cosmological redshift introducing any ad hoc assumptions.
phenomenon.

5 The expanding universe model fails to make a good fit to The tired-light static universe cosmology makes a superior fit to
astronomical data on four cosmology tests. astronomical data on all four cosmology tests.

6 Conventional cosmology fails to explain observations of SQK accounts for the existence of galaxies having redshifts many times
galaxies with redshifts greater than 4.0. higher than 4.0.

7 Conventional physics fails to explain why the jovian planets and SQK explains this conformance by predicting that planets, brown dwarfs,
brown dwarfs fall along the M-L relation for low mass stars, and low mass stars are similarly powered by genic energy.
attributes this to chance.

8 Fails to explain the source of the excess heat coming from the SQK attributes the excess heat from the Earth's core to genic energy.
Earth's core.

9 Fails to account for the inflection (at 0.45 solar masses) in the SQK explains this inflection and upward bend as arising from the onset
stellar luminosity function and for the accompanying upward of fusion energy production and the formation of a radiative core at the
bend in the stellar M-L relation. star's center.

10 Fails to adequately explain stellar pulsation. The SQK genic energy prediction explains this phenomenon.

11 Fails to explain the source of energy powering supernova The SQK genic energy prediction explains this phenomenon.
explosions and why supernovae arise from blue giants.

12 Fails to account for the energy source powering galactic core The SQK genic energy prediction explains this phenomenon.
explosions.

13 General relativity predicts that massive, highly luminous SQK predicts that black holes should not form, that galactic cores should
galactic cores should exist as matter-consuming black holes. instead consist of very dense stellar bodies that continually create matter
But this prediction fails to conform with observation. and energy. This predictionis supported by observation.

Note: genic energy is the name given to the excess energy that is produced by the photon blue-shifting
phenomenon predicted by subquantum kinetics.

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Philosophy and Metaphysics
Conventional Physics
1 Is based on positivism. Does not recognize the
existence of an unobservable spiritual realm.
Contradicts mystical teachings.
2 Is the only science that hangs on to the mechanical,
closed-system model.
3 Is made up of a conglomeration of theories that are
sometimes incompatible with one another.
Predictions Part I
Astronomy And Climatology
Superwave Theory Predictions And Their Subsequent Verification
Galactic Core Explosions - prevailing concept (1980): At the
time of this prediction, astronomers believed that the cores of
galaxies, including our own, become active ("explode") about
every 10 to 100 million years and stay active for about a million
years. Since our own Galactic core presently appears quiescent,
they believed it would likely remain inactive for many tens of
millions of years. Although, in 1977, astronomer Jan Oort cited
evidence that our Galactic core has been active within the past
10,000 years.
Prediction No. 1 (1980 - 1983): In his Ph.D. dissertation,
LaViolette hypothesized that galactic core explosions recur about
every 10,000 years and last for several hundred to a few thousand
years. He was the first to suggest such a short recurrence time for
galactic core explosions and that our own Galactic core
undergoes Seyfert-like explosions with similar frequency.
Subsequent concurrence (1998): In 1988, when presented with
Dr. LaViolette's Galactic explosion hypothesis, astronomer Mark
Morris dismissed the idea as having no merit. However, in 1998
after ten years of observation, Morris was quoted as saying that
the center of our Galaxy explodes about every 10,000 years with
these events each lasting 100 years or so.
Cosmic Ray Propagation - prevailing concept (1980 - 1983): At
the time of this pred
ediction, astronomers believed that interstellar
magnetic fields entrap cosmic rays released from Galactic core
outbursts and slow their outward progress so that they reach the
Earth after millions of years in the form of a constant low
intensity background radiation.
Prediction No. 2 (1980 - 83): Dr. LaViolette's studies concluded
thhaat Galactic center cosmic ray volleys interact minimally with
interstellar magnetic fields and are able to propagate radially
outward along rectilinear trajectories traveling through the
Galaxy at near light speed in the form of a coherent, spherical,
wave-like volley. He was the first to suggest this idea of a
"Galactic superwave."
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Subquantum Kinetics
Subquantum kinetics (SQK) derives from general systems
principles. Admits the possibility of an unseen realm.
Harmonizes with mystical teachings.
SQK adopts the open system model similar to that eventually
adopted in other sciences.
SQK consists of a unitary theory.
Verification (1985): Astrophysicists discovered that X-ray
pulsars continuously shower the Earth with high-energy cosmic
ray particles that have traveled over 25,000 light-years at nearly
the speed of light, following straight-line trajectories unaffected
by interstellar magnetic fields.
Verification (1997): Astrophysicists detected a strong gamma ray
pulse arriving from a galaxy billions of light years away having a
redshift of 3.4 (see Prediction No. 10 below). Mainstream media,
such as Sky & Telescope magazine, suggested that this gamma
ray pulse may be accompanied by a volley of high energy cosmic
ray particles travelling at very close to the speed of light along a
rectilinear trajectory and that the gamma ray pulse is produced by
the radial outward movement of this volley. In effect, they were
restating the same Galactic superwave idea that LaViolette had
proposed 14 years earlier in the face of stiff resistance from
mainstream astronomers.
Verification (2000): Radio astronomers announce at the January
2000 American Astronomical Society meeting that the
synchrotron radio emission radiated from the Galactic
ic center (Sgr
A*) is circularly polarized. Scientists present at the meeting
concurred with Dr. LaViolette's suggestion that the circular
polarization indicated that cosmic ray electrons were travelling
radially away from the Galactic center along straight-line
trajectories.
Cosmic Ray Bombardment - prevailing concept (1980 - 83): At
the time of this prediction, astronomers believed that the
background cosmic ray flux has remained constant for millions of
years, that intense cosmic ray bombardments occur very
infrequently, perhaps every 30 million years, primarily as a result
of nearby supernova explosions.
Prediction No. 3 (1980 - 1983): LaViolette concluded that a
volley of Galactic cosmic rays had bombarded the Earth and solar
system toward the end of the last ice age (ca. 14,000 years BP).
Also his findings suggested that other such superwaves had
passed us at earlier times and were responsible for triggering the
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initiation and termination of the ice ages and mass extinctions.
gest recurrent highly-frequent cosmic ray
He was the first to suggg
bombardment of the Earth.
Verification (1987): Glaciologists discovered beryllium-10
isotope peaks in ice age polar ice. These indicated that the cosmic
ray flux on the Earth bec ecame very hihigh on several occasions
during the last ice age, confirming Dr. LaViolette's theory that
Galactic superwaves have repeatedly passed through our solar
system in geologically recent times.
Cosmic Debris Around Solar System - prevailing concept (1980 -
83): At the time of this prediction, astronomers believed that the
solar system resided in a relatively dust free region of space.
Prediction No. 4 (1980 - 1983): LaViolette hypothesized that
large amounts of interstellar dust and frozen cometary debris lie
outside the solar system just beyond the heliopause sheath and
form a reservoir of material that would have supplied large
amounts of cosmic dust during a prehistoric superwave event.
Verification (1984): The IRAS satellite team published infrared
observations showing that the solar system is surrounded by
nearby "cirrus" dust cloud wisps.
Verification (1988): Astronomer H. Aumann's observations
suggested that the solar system is surrounded by a dust envelope
500 times denser than previously thought.
Verification (1992 - 95): Telescope observations revealed the
presence of the Kuiper belt, a dense population of cometary
bodies encircling the soollar sys
ystem, beginning just beyond the
orbit of Neptune and extending outward past the heliopause
sheath.
Verification (1999): Observavations of the influx of interstellar dust
particles using the Ulysses spacecraft lead Markus Landgraf and
his team of Eu
European Space Agency astronomers to conclude that
the solar system is surrounded by a ring of orbiting dust that
begins just outside the orbit of Saturn.
Cosmic Dust Influx - prevailing concept (1979): At the time of
this prediction, astronomers believed that the rate at which
cosmic dust particles have been entering the solar system and the
Earth's atmosphere has remained constant for millions of years.
They believed that the solar system lies in a relatively clean
interstellar space environment and hence that there is no need to
expect the occurrence of recent cosmic dust incursions.
Prediction No. 5 (Sept. 1979): LaViolette theorized that if a
cosmic ray volley (superwave) had passssed by at the end of the ice
age, it would have pushed nearby interstellar dust into the solar
system. To test this, he began a plan to analyze ice age polar ice
for traces of cosmic dust.
Verification (1981 - 82): LaViolette was the first to measure the
extraterrestrial material content of prehistoric polar ice. Using the
neutron activation analy lysis technique, he found high levels of
iridium and nickel in 6 out of the 8 polar ice dust samples (35k to
73k yrs BPP)), an indication that
at they contain high levels of cosmic
dust. This showed that Galactic superwaves may have affected
our solar system in the recent past. In addition, he discovered
gold in one 50,000 year old sample, making this the first time
gold had been discovered in polar ice.
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Verification (1984): The IRAS satellite team reported
observations that the zodiacal dust cl cloud is tilted 3 degrees
relative to the eeccliptic with ascending and descending ecliptic
nodes at 87° and 267°, but failed to draw a conclusion from this
finding. LaViolette realized that the nodes are aligned with the
Galactic-center-anticenter direction in support of his earlier
prediction that interstellar dust has recently entered the solar
system from the Galactic center direction. 1987: He published a
paper in Earth, Moon, and Planets journal explaining that the
orientation of the zodiacal dust cloud nodes indicates that this
zodiacal dust recently entered from the direction of the Galactic
center.
Verification (April 1993): NASA's Ulysses spacecraft team
published observations indicating that interstellar dust is
currently entering the solar system from the Galactic center
direction (from the direction the interstellar wind blows towards
us) and hence that most of the dust outside the asteroid belt is of
interstellar origin. Their findings were predicted by LaViolette's
1983 and 1987 publications. One Ulysses team member had
received Dr. LaViolette's publications in 1985, but LaViolette's
work was not cited.
Verification (1995): Cosmochemists publish observations
showing that Helium-3 concentrations in ocean sediments, an
indicator of extraterrestrial dust influx, changed by over 3 fold on
a 100,000 year cycle between 250,000 and 450,000 years ago.
Verification (1996): The AMOR radar in New Zealand detected
ux of interstellar meteoroid particles, measuring 15 to
a strong fllu
40 microns in size, entering the solar system from the Galactic
center direction.
Verification (2000 - 2005): LaViolette demonstrates that the acid
layers found in 15,850 year old Antarctic polar ice vary in
magnitude with an eleven year solar cycle period thereby
indicating an extraterrestrial origin for this material. This finding
is supported by the discovery mentioned below (2003) that
interstellar dust influx varies in accordance with solar cycle
phase. The finding that this gas influx event heralded a series of
warming trends that ended the ice age, implicates cosmic dust
and solar activation as the causal agents responsible for
terminating glacial cycles.
Verification (2003): Using data obtained from the Ulysses
spacecraft, a group of European Space Agency astronomers led
by Markus Landgraf discover that the rate of interstellar dust
influx increased three fold from
om 1997 to 2000 with the approach
to solar maximum. They theorize a correlation between solar
cycle phase and interstellar dust influx rate, with the influx rate
being highest at the time of solar maximum. Such a correlation
could explain why the Sun could become locked into an active,
dust accreting mode during times of superwave passage.
Verification (2004): Glaciologists find that the concentrations of
iridium and platinum in submicron sized "meteoritic smoke"
particles present in polar ice are two to three times higher during
the last ice age.
Verification (2007): A group of scientists, the Younger Dryas
Boundary (YDB) group, reports high levels of extraterrestrial
indicators (Ir, Ni, cosmic spherules, microtektites, 3He, fullerenes
at the 12,950 yrs b2k Alleröd/Younger Dryas boundary layer that
overlies extinct megafaunana and Clovis artifaaccts.
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Tin in Cosmic Dust - prevailing concept (1981): At the time of
this discovery, cosmochemists did not believe that extraterrestrial
material could have anomalously high concentrations of heavy
metals such as tin, antimony, gold and silver. Abundances higher
than those typically found in meteorites were looked on with
skepticism and evidence that one's samples had been
contaminated.
Predictio
ion No. 6 (1981): LaViolette fouun nd very high
concentrations of tin in several ice age polar ice dust samples,
one 50,000 year old sample, in particular, containing 60% of its
weight in tin. Elevated concentrations of gold, silver, and
antimony as well as the cosmic dust indicators iridium, and
nickel were also found in the samples. He theorized that due to
the presence of iridium and nickel, this tin-rich dust must be of
extraterrestrial originn,, possibly coming from an anomalous
interstellar source.
Verification (Jan. 1984): The tin was fo
found to contain an isotopic
anomaly indicating that it was definitely of extraterrestrial origin;
see Prediction No. 7.
Indirect support (1989): Cosmochemist F. Rietmeijer published a
paper describing the discovery of tin oxide grains inside
interplanetary dust particles, with tin abundances much higher
than typically found in chondritic meteorites. This helps to
substantia
iate LaViolette's 1983 claim that the solar system
contains a dust souurrce enriched in tin which is the source of the
tin-rich dust found in polar ice.
Verification (May 2007): A group of cosmochemists report
finding high levels of tin (25 - 28%) and copper (1 - 11%) along
with ET material indicators platinum and nickel in magnetic
separates retrieved from the 12,950 yrs b2k Alleröd/Younger
Dryas boundary layer and from Clovis sites. They conclude that
ng these volatile metals are of extraterrestrial
the grains bearing
origin.
Tin Isotopic Anomaly - state of the art (1981): At the time of this
prediction, astronomers speculated that tin found in
extraterrestrial material could have isotope ratios different from
those of terrestrial tin. But up until that time no tin in isotopic
anomalies had been reported.
Prediction No. 7 (1981): Having found very high concentrations
of tin in several ice age ice core dust samples in association with
high levels of iridium, and nickel, LaViolette theorized that this
tin-rich dust was of extraterrestrial origin and that if so the tin
should have anomalous isotopic ratios.
Verification (Jan. 1984): Geochemists at Curtin University
(Australia) in collaboration with LaViolett tte used a mass
spectrometry technique to determine the isotopic ratios of an
unirradiated portion of the tin-rich dust sample. They found
significant isotopic anomalies in four isotopes thereby confirming
LaViolette's prediction that the tin dust is of extraterrestrial
origin. This marked the first time that tin isotopic anomalies had
been discovered.
Prehistoric Global Warming - prevailing concept (1981): At the
time of this prediction, climatologists believed that the Alleröd-
Bölling warming and Younger Dryas cold period at the end of the
iccee age were confined primarily to Europe. They assumed that
there was no global warming at the end of the ice age, that the
northern continental ice sheets did not melt synchronously with
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the southern ice sheets, and that the warming in the north was due
to heat being drawn from the Southern Hemisphere.
Prediction No. 8 (1983): In his dissertation, LaViolette
demonstrated that the last ice age was ended by a 2000 year long
global warming which he calls the Terminal Pleistocene
Interstadial (TPI) identified with the Alleröd-Bölling interstadial
this was followed by a global
in the north. He also proposed thhaat th
return to glacial conditions, identified with the Younger Dryas in
the north. He showed that the melting of the ice sheets was
synchronous in the northern and southern hemispheres and was
brought about by cosmic causes.
Verification (1987 - 96): Climatologists published temperature
profiles from various parts of the world showing the presence of
this same climatic oscillation, but did not connect their data with
the idea of global climatic shifts.
Verification (1998): Climatologists (Steig et al.) published
findings in Science demonstrating thhee synchronous occurrence of
the Alleröd-Bölling-Younger Dryas climatic oscillation in the
Taylor Dome Antarctic ice core. They claimed this as evidence
that the last ice age was ended by a global warming. Although
they should have been aware of LaViolette's publications, their
report did not cite his prior work.
Prehistoric Solar Conflagration - prevailing concept (1998 83): At
the time of LaViolette's prediction, the general opinion was that
the Sun has remained in its present quiescent solar cycle state for
hundreds of millions of years. A small group of astronomers,
however, dissented with this view. For example, in 1969,
astrophysicist Thomas Gold published lunar rock evidence
indicating that, within the last 30,000 years, the radiation
intensity on the Moon had reached 100 suns for 10 to 100
seconds, possibly due to a solar nova. In 1975, astronomer A.
Lovell suggested that sun-like stars occasionly produce flares of
up to 10^37 ergs, 30,000 times more energetic than the largest
solar flare of modern times. In 1977, astrophysicists Wdowczyk
and Wolfendale suggested that the Sun might produce a fla lare a
million times larger (3 X 10^38 ergs) about once every 100,000
years. Moreover in 1978, NASA astronomers Zook, Hartung, and
Storzer had published lunar rock evidence indicating that 16,000
years ago solar flare background radiation intensity on the
Moon's surface had peaked to 50 times the current intensity and
that this may have been somehow associated with the retreat of
the ice sheets. The idea that the Earth and Moon might have been
affected in the passtt by the arrival of a giant solar coronal mass
ejection had not yet been advanced.
Prediction No. 9 (1983): In his dissertation, LaViolette proposed
that invading cosmic dust would have caused the Sun to become
more luminous and engage in continual flaring activity. In
chapter 4, he suggested that on one occasion the Earth and Moon
may have been engulfed by a large prominence remnant "fireball"
(coronal mass ejection) thrown out by the Sun during a period of
particularly intense solar activity. He interpreted the findings of
Zook and Gold as evidence that the Sun had been in a highly
active T-Tauri like flaring state and that at times its flaring
activity had been as much as 1000 times currently observed
levels. He suggested that these may have scorched the surface of
the Earth in ice age times, inducing high temperature res, rapid ice
sheet melting, global fllo
ooding, and mass animal extinction.
Concordance (1997): Satellite observations showed solar flares
ejecting expanding balls of plasma called "coronal mass
ejections"and demonstrated that these were capable of travelling
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outward beyond the Earth's orbit. This lent credance to
LaViolette's theory that a large coronal plasma "fireball" thrown
off by an immense solar flare may have reached the Earth and
Moon and scorched their surfaces.
Concordance (1999): Astronomers announced that they had
observed large explosive outbursts from the surfaces of nearby
normal sunlike stars. These "superflares" were observed to range
from 100 to 10 million times the energy of the largest flare
observed on the Sun in modern times and were estimated to occur
about once every hundred years. This confirmed the Lovell
hypothesis and increased the plausibility of LaViolette's
suggestion that the Sun was producing mega solar flares and
intense plasma fireballs at the end of the last ice age.
Verification (2002): As early as the late 1970's Dr. Han
Kloosterman was arguing that a global conflagration was the
cause of the black layer found in Alleröd sediments in southern
England and in the Great Lakes Region. Later in 2002, when Dr.
LaViolette first became aware of his work, Kloosterman was on a
geological field trip in the southeastern U.S. accumulating
evidence of the black mat horizon dating from the
Alleröd/Younger Dryas transition and correlative with similar
horizons found in Great Britain, Belgium, France, Germany,
Denmark, and Poland. Kloosterman concluded that this layer was
produced by a global conflagration which was also responsible
for the exitnction of the Pleistocene megafauna. Kloosterman's
thesis and evidence of the Usselo horizon confirm the solar CME
scenario that LaViolette had proposed.
Veriiffication (2008): LaViolette locates the legendary solar
conflagration event in Summit, Greenland ice cores. Using
correlations to the Cariaco Basin varve chronology, he dates this
event at 12,885 years b2k. He finds that it is marked by a sudden
increase in atmospheric radiocarbon concentration which occurs
together with a climatic warming climate in Greenland changing
from glacial to interglacial temperatures within less than two
years. He finds that the event is also associated with an increase
of ammonium, oxylate, and formate ion, which is indicative of a
period of global biomass combustion. This suggests that this is
the time of the conflagration that produced the Usselo Horizon.
He also finds that it occurs together with an acidity ECM spike
lasting less than a month as well as a rise of nitrate ion, both
being indicators of a dramatic rise in the influx of solar cosmic
rays.
Geomagnetic Reversals - prevailing concept (1983): At the time
of LaViolette's prediction, geophysicists believed that
geomagnetic reversals and magnetic polarity flips were brought
about by causes internal to the Earth, that they arose from
instabilities in the inner rotation of the Earth's core magnetic
dynamo. They believed that these field excursions took hundreds
of years to occur due to the inherently slow movement of the core
material.
Prediction No. 10 (1983): In chapter 3 of his dissertation,
LaViolette proposed that geomagnetic reversals are induced by
solar cosmic ray storms. He proposed that at times when invading
cosmic dust causes the Sun to become very active and engage in
continual flaring activity, major solar outbursts could occur that
are a thousand times more intense than those currently observed.
Further he proposed that solar cosmic rays from such a mega
flare could impact the Earth's magnetosphere, become trapped
there to form storm-time radiation belts, and generate an
equatorial ring current producing a magnetic field opposed to the
Earth's. If sufficiently intense, this ring current magnetic field
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could cancel out the Earth's own field and flip the residual
magnetic field pole to an equatorial location. From this position it
could later either recover or adopt a reversed polarity. He
proposed that this geomagnetic excursion would be very rapid,
occurring in a matter of days.
Verification (1989 - 95): Geophysicists reported their analysis of
a geomagnetic reversal recorded in the Steens Mountain lava
formation, conclusively demonstrating that during this reversal
the Earth's magnetic pole changed direction as fast as 8 degrees
per day. This overthrew the conventional geocentric view which
could not account for such rapid changes with internal motions of
the Earth's core dynamo. It confirmed Dr. LaViolette's
mechanism of rapid change.
Concordance (1995): Unaware of LaViolette's publications, two
French geophysicicists published a paper that sought to
to explain the
Steens Mountain polarity reversal as being due to a solar cosmic
ray cause. Their mechanism was the same as that which
LaViolette had proposed 6 years before the Steens Mountain
discovery. Their independent arrival at the same idea is evidence
of parallel idea development and consensus with LaViolette's
earlier theory.
Verification (1994, 1995): McHargue, et al. discover Be-10
anomalies in ocean sediments at 32 kyr and 43 kyrs BP,
contemporaneous with the Mono Lake and Laschamp
geomagnetic excursions. Unaware of LaViolette's publications,
they suggest they were caused by the passage of supernova shock
fronts during a time of unprecidented long-term solar activity.
Radiocarbon Date Anomalies - prevailing concept (1983): At the
time of this proposal, the idea that anomalously young
radiocarbon dates might be produced by intense solar cosmic ray
bombardments had not been suggested. Such young dates were
thought to be due to sample contamination with younger carbon
having a higher C-14 content.
Prediction No. 11 (1983): Anomalously young radiocarbon dates
are frequently found in fossil remains of Pleistocene megafauna
that became extinct at the end of the last ice age. In chapter 10 of
his dissertation, LaViolette proposed that a solar cosmic ray
conflagration caused the demise of these mammals and their
subsequent burial by the action of glacier meltwater waves. He
suggested that the neutron shower produced by the intense solar
cosmic ray stor
orm (coronal mass ejection) that engulfed the Earth
would have radiogenically changed nitrogen atoms in animal
collagen into carbon-1414 atoms. He proposed that this in situ
radiocarbon generation could have made the radiocarbon da dates on
exposed organic matter anomalously young.
Verification (1998): After conducting seven years of research,
archeologist William Topping proposed that the abnormally
young radiocarbon dates of ice age Paleo-Indian sites (ca. 12,400
- 13,000 calendar yrs BP) could be explained if a major solar
flare cosmic ray particle storm had caused in situ carbon-14
production from nitrogen in the organic remains of those strata.
His conclusion of heavy particle bombardment in Paleo-Indian
times was partly supported by his discovery of particle tracks and
micrometeorite craters in artifacts. This in situ C-14 production
mechanism is the same that LaViolette had earlier proposed to
explain the young dates for Pleistocene mammal remains dating
from a similar period. Like Topping, LaViolette had concluded
that the demise of the large mammals at that time was due to a
solar flare conflagration. Since Topping was probably not aware
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of LaViolette's dissertation, his work would constitute
independent corroboration.
Concordance (1995 - 1998): Researchers report the discovery that
atmospheric radiocarbon levels strongly increased during the
period spanning the Allerød/Younger Dryas transition and the
megafaunal extinction. Over a 300 year period between the time
of the IntraAllerod Cold Peak and the beginning of the Younger
Dryas, atmospheric C-14 levels are estimated to have risen from
3 to 7 % and subsequently declined during the course of the
Younger Dryas.
Concordance (2000 - 2004): Additional evidence comes from
analysis of the varved sediments from the Cariaco Basin off the
coast of Venezuela and from Icelandic ocean sediments showing
a 9 percent rise in C-14 during the time of the megafaunal
extinction, from 13,500 - 12,800 years b2k, and on several
previous occasions, including a 90 percent rise in radiocarbon
concentration that climaxed around 40,000 yrs b2k after having
progressively risen for a period of 5000 years. The events
coincide with times when the atmospheric beryllium-10
production rate also rose to high levels.
Glacial drift deposits - prevailing concept (1983): At the time of
this prediction, geologists believed that the ice sheets melted
gradually at the end of the ice age and that their meltwater
outflow was also gradual, with the exception of instances of dam
breaks occurring in proglacial lakes such as Lake Missoula in
Montana.
Prediction No. 12 (1983): LaViolette proposes that much of the
glacial drift deposited at the end of the last ice age was laid down
by glacier waves issuing from the upper surfaces of the ice
sheets. These are water outbursts far larger than the glacier
bursts seen today issuing from mountain glaciers.
Verifification (1983): To explain sediment morphology in
Manitoba, North Dakota, and Minnesota, geologists Alan Kehew
and Lee Clayton propose the occurrence of catastrophic floods
produced by a domino effect of proglacial lake discharges.
LaViolette had proposed a similar domino effect mechanism for
the production of glacier waves on the surfaces of ice sheets.
Verification (1988): German scientist Harmut Heinrich calls
attention to North Atlantic ocean sediment layers composed
primarily of rock grains of continental bedrock origin that had
been transported distances of up to 3000 kilometers prior to theheir
deposition. Subsequent investigations uncovered evidence that
these "Heinrich layers" were deposited suddenly. Heinrich
advances a theory that this material was transported by drifting
and melting ice bergs. However, not all are satisfied with this
explanation which fails to explain the suddenness of the
deposition events. In 2001 (Galactic Superwaves CDROM),
LaViolette shows that Heinrich events correlate with times of
climatic warming and that these layers are evidence of long-range
sediment transport by glacier waves. He shows that Heinrich
laay
yer 0 correlates with accelerated glacier wave discharge activity
he proposed was occurring around 12,700 years BP and that
Heinrich layer 1 spans the Pre-Bölling Interstadial which began
the deglaciation phase.
Verification (1989): Canadian geologist John Shaw points out
that drumlins are more likely produced by forceful discharges of
glacial meltwater rather than by the action of slowly advancing
glaciers. He proposes that the meltwater discharges had reached
depths of hundreds of feet and thhaat they originated from beneath
366
the glaciers. However, more probably they were formed by
ing from the ice she
glacier waves oorriginatin heet surface.
Gamma Ray Bursts - prevailing concept (1983): During the early
1970's, astronomers discovered the Ea Earth is sporraadically
bombarded by gamma ray bursts. At the time of this prediction,
they incorrectly assumed that gamma ray bursts were medium
energy events originating from local sources within our Galaxy.
They did not regard them as a significant social threat.
Prediction No. 13 (1983): In his dissertation, LaViolette proposed
that a superwave produced by an explosion of our Galaxy's core
could be immediately preceded by a very strong gamma ray
pulse, 10,000 times stronger than what could come ffrrom a
supernova explosion. He pointed out that upon impacting our
upper atmosphere this burst could strip electrons and induce a
powerful electromagnetic pulse which, like a high-altitude
nuclear EMP, could have serious consequences for modern
society. It could knock out satellites, interrupt radio, TV, and
telephone communication, produce electrical surges on power
lines causing widespread black outs, and possibly trigger the
inadvertent launching of missiles. He was among the few to
suggest that Galactic core explosions could produce high
intensity gamma ray outbursts that could affect the Earth. In
1989, under the sponsorship of the Starburst Foundation,
LaViolette initiated an international outreach project, to warn
about the dangers of such astronomical phenomena. He pointed
out that our Galactic center could produce seriously disruptive
low intensity outbursts as frequently as once every 500 years and
that we are currently overdue for one. This was the first time a
widespread gamm maa ray pulse warning of this sort had been made.
Verification (1997): In December 1997, astronomers for the first
pointed the source of a gamma ray burst and found that it
time pinpo
originated from a galaxy lying billions of light years away. This
led them to conclude that these are mostly extragalactic events
having total energies millions of times greater than they had
previously supposed, thereby confirming LaViolette's earlier
proposal of the existence of high intensity gamma ray bursts. If
this particular outburst had originated from our Galactic center, it
would have delivered 100, 0,000 times the lethal dose to all exposed
Earth life forms.
Verification (1998): Some months later, in August 27, 1998, a 5
minute long gamma ray pulse arrived from a Galactic source
located 20,000 light years away in the constellation of Aquila.
The event was strong enough to ionize the upper atmosphere and
seriously disrupt satellites and spacecraft. It triggered a defensive
instrument shutdown on at least two spacecraft. Astronomers
acknowledged that this marked the first time they became aware
that energetic outbursts from distant astronomical sources could
affect the Earth's physical environment. These events reaffirmed
the validity of warnings LaViolette made 9 years earlier about the
potential hazards of such gamma ray bursts.
Galactic morphology - prevailing concept (1980 - 83): At the
time Paul LaViolette was writing in 1983, most astronomers
believed that quasars and blazars were very different from most
other galaxies and in a class of their own. LaViolette recalls a
telephone conversation he had, in which the renown astronomer
Geoffrey Burbidge steadfastly defended this view. Astronomers
also believed that active giant elliptical galaxies were structurally
different from spiral galaxies.
Prediction No. 14 (1980 - 1983): In his dissertation, LaViolette
proposes that quasars and blazars are the bright cores of spiral
galaxies in which the light from the core is so bright that it masks
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the dimmer light coming from the galaxy's disk. He suggests that
quasars and blazars are essentially the same core explosion
phenomenon that is seen in Seyfert galaxies and N-galaxies. He
predicts that when it eventually becomes operational the Hubble
Telescope will resolve the disks around these bright cores. He
also suggests that edge-on spiral galaxies with active cores would
give the appearance of being giant elliptical galaxies due to
synchrotron radiation emitted from their outwa ward streaming
cosmic rays. In connection with this, he predicts that when active
giant ellipticals are imaged with the Hubble Telescope, spiral arm
dust lanes oriented edge-on will be detected.
Verification (1995, 1997): Astronomers publish the results of a
survey which imaged quasars using the Hubble Space Telescope.
These quasars (luminous cores) are seen to be surrounded by
spiral arm disks, just as LaViolette had predicted. Earlier in 1982
a group of astronomers had resolved galactic light fuzz around
quasar 3C273 using a special imaging technique. This was
published after the date of LaViolette's prediction. In 1997 NASA
astronomers release a photo of an active giant elliptical galaxy
that resolves its equatorial dust lane and shows that it is oriented
edge-on as LaViolette had predicted.
Archeoastronomy - prevailing concept (1979): At the time of this
prediction, ancient historians, cultural anthropologists and
scholars of esoteric traditions did not suspect that ancient myth
makers knew the location of the Galactic center or that they had
associated this part of the sky with the cataclysmic cycles
described in legend.
Prediction No. 15 (1979): LaViolette discovered that the ancient
star lore connected with the Sagittarius and Scorpius
constellations indicated the location of the Galactic center,
conveyed the idea of an explosive outburst, and specified a
significant past date of 13,865 ± 150 years B.C. which also is
encoded in the ancient Egyptian Dendereh zodiac. Also
LaViolette found that myths, customs and esoteric lore
descendent from prehistoric times indicated that cosmic rays
from a Galactic core explosion catastrophically affect the Earth
and solar system in recurrent cycles with the most recent event
occurring near the end of the last ice age. He wrote up this idea in
an unpublished paper in 1979 and formally published these ideas
in 1995 and 1997 in his books Beyond the Big Bang and Earth
Under Fire. In Earth Under Fire he also connected Mayan
cosmology and World Ages with the Galactic center and Galactic
superwave events. He began discovering these associations
around 1987.
Concordance (1994 - 1998): In a December 1994 magazine
article and later in his book Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 (1998),
John Major Jenkins presented his findings that Mayan lore
contains a Galactic center oriented cosmology. that specifically
refers to the Galactic center vicinity (ecliptic-Galactic plane
crossing point) in connection with the occurrence of the Mayan
World Ages. One of his findings is that the Mayan calendar 2012
AD end date, which designates the end of the present World Age,
also indicates the time when the Earth's precessing axis will be
maximally tipped in the direction of this Galactic plane
intersection point. Jenkins was not aware of LaViolette's work at
the time he wrote, so his findings constitute an instance of
independent discovery and corroboration. Jenkins went into much
greater depth in exploring Mayan cosmologgical
ical rreeferences to the
Galactic center, but did not explore the Galactic explosion/Earth
cataclysm theme discovered by LaViolette.
367
Concordance (2000): LaViolette discovered evidence indicating
that the largest acidity spike in the entire Antarctic ice core
record was of extraterrestrial origin, possibly produced by a
major incursion of interstellar or cometary dust; see paper posted
at solar.html. The date of this event, beginning 13,880 B.C. and
tailing off 13,785 B.C., closely corresponds to the date encoded
in zodiac star lore marking the arrival of a galactic superwave.
Predictions Part II
Physics and Astronomy
Subquantum Kinetics Predictions and their Subsequent
Verification
Nucleon Core Field - prevailing concept (1978): The electric
field in the core of a nucleon is assumed to be aperiodic and to
rise to a sharp cusp at the particle's center.
Prediction No. 1 (1973 - 1978): Subquantum kinetics predicted
that the electric potential field in the core of a subatomic particle
should be Gaussian-shaped and should continue outward as a
periodic field pattern of diminishing amplitude having a radial
wavelength equal to the particle's Compton wavelength, further
that this field pattern should be positively biased in positively
charged particles. Prediction published in: 1985 (IJGS), 1994
(Subquantum Kinetics), and 1995 (Beyond the Big Bang).
Verification (2002): Particle scattering form factor data for the
proton and neutron is found to be best fit by a model in which the
nucleon core electric charge density distribution has
characteristics similar to those that subquantum kinetics had
predicted. Energy boosting during collision, however, did cause
the target nucleons to exhibit a wavelength slightly shorter than
had been predicted.
Speed of light - prevailing concept (1985): At the time of this
prediction, scientists believed the speed of light in space to be a
constant c irrespective of photon wavelength. This accords with
the teachings of the special theory of relativity.
Prediction No. 2 (1985): Subquantum kinetics predicts that
higher frequency photons should travel slightly faster than lower
frequency photons although the difference in frequency would be
so slight that it should not be observable over laboratory
distances. He proposed that the speed difference might be
observed in photons coming from an outburst in a distant galaxy,
wherein higher frequency photons may be found to arrive before
lower frequency photons. This prediction derives from the
reaction-diffusion system methodology that subquantum kinetics
is based on. In reaction-diffusion systems wave velocity is not
uniquely constant but depends on the wave's wavelength. The
manner in which wave velocity varies with wavelength is termed
the system's dispersion relation. Typically, the product of wave
velocity and wavelength equals a constant, i.e., v = k/l = (k/c)f.
Subquantum kinetics postulates that the Model G reaction system
operates very close to its critical threshold, hence in a relatively
linear regime. Consequently, k would be expected to be a very
small number (k/c << 1), dictating that wave velocity does not
increase appreciably as frequency increases. Hence this effect
would be apparent only over vast astronomical distances. Just as
large astronomical distances are required to observe a substantial
spontaneous change in photon energy, so too, large astronomical
distances are required to observe a substantial change in photon
velocity. LaViolette published this prediction in 1985
(LaViolette, IJGS, pp. 291) and again in 1994 (LaViolette,
Subquantum Kinetics, p. 35).
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Verification (2007): A group of scientists working with the
MAGIC gamma ray telescope discover evidence of a slight
wavelength dependence in light waves emitted by flares in the
core of Markarian 501, a galaxy lying about 460 million years
away (Albert, et al., 2007). They studied the arrival times of
gamma rays having differing energies and found that those in the
energy range of 0.25 to 0.6 Tev arrived 4 minutes after their
higher frequency counterparts whose energy was an order of
magnitude higher in the range 1.2 to 10 Tev. Hence k/c ~10-15.
The results support the subquantum kinetics prediction but refute
a fundamental tenet of special relativity that the velocity of light
in space should equal a constant c. This frequency dependence
also challenges standard versions of string theory, although it
confirms a nonstandard version proposed by Amelino-Camelia,
Ellis. Mavromatos, Nanopoulos, Sakar, Farakos, and Mitsou
(1997, 1998, 2000).
Energy Conservation and Photon Redshifting - prevailing
concept (1978): At the time of this prediction, physicists and
astronomers generally assume that photon energy is perfectly
conserved and that the cosmological redshift is an effect arising
from an assumed expansion of space.
Prediction No. 3 (1978): As a basic requirement of its
methodology, subquantum kinetics predicted that photons
passing through regions of more positive gravitational field
potential where the reaction system is subcritical, e.g.,
intergalactic space, should progressively redshift with the passage
of time, that is undergo a "tired-light effect." The spectra of
distant galaxies should then redshift even in the absence of any
net recessional motion.
Verification (1979 - 1986): Dr. LaViolette checks this photon
redshifting prediction by comparing the tired-light non-expanding
universe model and the expanding universe model (standard
Freidman cosmology) to observational data on four different
cosmology tests. He demonstrates that the tired-light model
consistently makes a closer fit to observational data on all tests.
His findings, which were published in the Astrophysical Journal
(1986), confirm the subquantum kinetics tired light prediction
and the notion that the universe is cosmologically stationary.
These findings undermine a key support of the big bang theory.
An update of this evidence is presented in Chapter 7 of
Subquantum Kinetics.
Energy Conservation and Energy Generation - prevailing concept
(1978): At the time of this prediction, physicists and astronomers
adhered to the idea that energy is perfectly conserved. Stars are
assumed to generate their energy either through nuclear fusion or
from heat released from gravitational accretion. Planets are
instead thought to acquire their luminosity from stored heat.
There is no reason to believe that planets should conform to the
stellar mass-luminosity relation.
Prediction No. 4 (1978 - 1979): As a basic requirement of its
methodology, subquantum kinetics predicted that photons should
progressively blueshift in regions of more negative gravitational
field potential where the reaction system is supercritical, e.g.,
within stars and planets and in interplanetary and interstellar
space. It predicted that "genic energy" should be continuously
created within all celestial bodies.
Verification (1979 - 1992): Dr. LaViolette tested this genic
energy prediction by plotting the mass-luminosity coordinates of
the jovian planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus) to
368
compare them with the mass-luminosity relation for red dwarf
stars and found that both planets and stars conformed to the same
relation. Other astronomers had not previously done this because
doing so didn't make sense in the context of the conventional
astrophysical paradigm. This conformance suggests that the heat
coming from the interiors of planets is produced in the same way
as that radiating from the interiors of red dwarf stars, just as
subquantum kinetics predicts. He also showed that the genic
energy hypothesis predicts a slope for the "planetary stellar M-L
relation" similar to the observed slope. In addition, he showed
that the upward extension of the M-L relation predicts that about
16% of the Sun's luminosity should be of genic energy origin, an
amount consistent with recent SNO solar neutrino measurements.
The required violation of energy conservation is 10 orders of
magnitude smaller than what could be observed in laboratory
experiments.
Verification (January 1995): Astronomers observing with the
Hubble Space Telescope discovered that the star VB10 has a
dynamic core, as indicated by the presence of explosive,
magnetic-field-driven flares on its surface. VB10 has a mass of
about 0.09 solar masses, which indicates that it borders between
being a red dwarf and brown dwarf. Conventional theory
predicts that this star should be on the border of being dead and
hence should not have a strong magnetic field. Subquantum
kinetics, which predicts that its interior should be dynamic and
actively evolving genic energy, anticipates these results.
Brown Dwarf Stars - prevailing concept (1985): At the time of
this prediction, astronomers do not expect that brown dwarf stars
to have any particular mass-luminosity ratio. They are assumed to
be stars that are not massive enough to ignite nuclear fusion and
hence are merely dead stars that are cooling off.
Prediction No. 5 (1985 - August 1995): Subquantum kinetics
predicted that brown dwarfs should also generate genic energy
and hence, like the jovian planets, should lie along the lower
main-sequence mass-luminosity relation for red dwarf stars. Paul
LaViolette published this prediction on four occasions: 1985
(LaViolette, IJGS, p. 339), 1992 (LaViolette, Physics Essays, )
1994 (LaViolette, Subquantum Kinetics, p. 125), and 1995
(LaViolette, Beyond the Big Bang, p. 304).
Verification (November 1995, 1998): Astronomers determine the
masses and luminosities of two brown dwarfs GL 229B and G
196-3B. Dr. LaViolette demonstrates that the M-L data points
for these brown dwarfs lies along the planetary-stellar M-L
relation as he predicted. This indicates that brown dwarfs are not
dead stars as previously supposed, but stars that are actively
producing genic energy in their interiors.
Interplanetary maser signals - prevailing concept (1985): Maser
signals are believed to maintain constant frequencies over
interplanetary distances since photon energy is assumed to be
perfectly conserved.
Prediction No. 6 (1985): Dr. LaViolette determines the expected
magnitude of the hypothesized genic energy photon blueshifting
rate by modeling the intrinsic luminosities of the planets. He then
predicts that if a maser signal were transponded between two
spacecraft separated by 5 AU, the signal should be found to
blueshift at the rate of about 1.3 X 10-18 per second. This
prediction was published on two occasions: 1985 (LaViolette,
IJGS, p. 340) and 1994 (LaViolette, Subquantum Kinetics, p.
135).
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Verification (October 1998): A group of JPL astronomers publish
their discovery that maser signals transponded between the Earth
and the Pioneer spacecraft blueshift at a rate of ~ 2.9 ± 0.4 X 10-
18 per second. Theeiir value reduces to 2.3 ± 0.4 X 10-18 per
second when the propulsive effects of waste heat from the
spacecraft power source is taken into account. Although the JPL
team has chosen a posteriori to interpret this as a mysterious
force pushing the spacecraft toward the Sun, it provides a close
confirmation of the a priori subquantum kinetics prediction; see
paper posted at pioneer.html.
Galactic Evolution - prevailing concept (1979): At the time of
this prediction, astronomers believed that galaxies form in
various sizes as galactic-sized gas clouds gravitationally
condense to form stars. They assume that the size of these
galaxies does not change over time except through galaxy
mergers. Galaxies in the immediate neighborhood of the Milky
Way are assumed to have the same size ratio as young galaxies at
cosmological distances.
Prediction No. 7 (1979 - 1994): Subquantum kinetics predicts
that matter is continuously created throughout the universe, with
the matter creation rate being highest in the vicinity of already
existing matter. Furthermore it predicts that galaxies should
progressively grow in size with the passage of time since they are
formed by matter being created primarily in their central nucleus
and being propelled outward by galactic core explosions. Dr.
LaViolette published this prediction on two occasions, in 1985
(LaViolette, IJGS, p. 335) and in 1994 (LaViolette, Subquantum
Kinetics, p. 118). Also see LaViolette, Beyond the Big Bang, p.
94.
Verification (July 1995): Observations with the Hubble Space
Telescope show that younger, more distant galaxy clusters are
dominated by fainter, more compact galaxies and have much
fewer of the larger spiral galaxies, as compared with nearby older
galaxy clusters.
Galactic Core Energy Source - prevailing concept (1985): At the
time of this prediction, the nuclei of active galaxies and quasars
are known to contain central masses ranging from m miillions to
billions of solar masses, and astronomers assume that these core
masses exist in a collapsed state as black holes. They further
assume that the prodigious energy output from these cores is
powered from matter being swallowed by these hypothesized
black holes. No other means of generating energy is known to
explain the immense amount of energy observed to come from
these locations.
Prediction No. 8 (1985): Subquantum kinetics predicts that
matter-accreting black holes do not exist. Instead, it predicts the
existence of highly massive, very dense celestial bodies of finite
size called "mother stars" which continuously and spontaneously
produce matter and genic energy in their interiors. LaViolette
published his ideas on this on two occasions: 1985 (LaViolette,
IJGS, p. 342) and 1994 (LaViolette, Subquantum Kinetics, pp.
143-144).
Verification (January 1995): A group of astronomers led by John
Bahcall, observing with the Hubble Space Telescope, discover
that 11 out of 15 quasars are devoid of any surrounding material
and hence have no matter available to power a black hole
hypothetically located at their centers. This supports the
subquantum kinetics prediction that such energetic sources are
369
instead powered by energy spontaneously created in their
interiors.
Verification (September 1997): Hubble Space Telescope
observations of the heart of active galaxy NGC 6251 provide
further confirmation of the earlier January 1995 verification.
These observations show that this galaxy's core is swept clear and
hence that there should be no matter available to be accreted by a
hypothetical central black hole.
Supernova Precursor Stars - prevailing concept (1985): At the
time of this prediction, astronomers believe that supernova are
produced by red giant stars which have exhausted their supply of
nuclear fuel. They presume that the once the red giant's nuclear
reactions subside, it collapses and subsequently rebounds in a
supernova explosion.
Prediction No. 9 (1985): Subquantum kinetics predicts that
supernovae are produced, not by red giant stars, but by blue
supergiant stars, that is, by stars that are exceedingly luminous
and hence energetically unstable. It predicts that, rather than
collapsing, the star undergoes a nonlinear increase in its
production of genic energy which leads to a stellar explosion.
LaViolette published this prediction in 1985 (LaViolette, IJGS,
pp. 342-343).
Verification (1987): Supernova 1987A explodes in the Large
Magellenic Cloud. This is the closest supernova observed in the
history of modern astronomy. Astronomers locate its precursor
star on old photographic plates and determine for the first time
what sort of star produced this explosion. Surprisingly, they find
that it had been a blue supergiant star, just as subquantum
kinetics had predicted.
Galactic Core Energy Source - prevailing concept (1985): At the
time of this prediction, astronomers had not imaged stars in the
vicinity of the Galactic center since the observational techniques
had not yet been developed. Based on their conventional
theories, they expected that most stars in the vicinity of the
Galactic center should be low mass stars, which they theorized
should be very old stars, at least as old the the Galaxy, e.g.,
billions of years.
Prediction No. 10 (1985): Subquantum kinetics predicts that
massive stars residing in the vicinity of the Galactic center should
instead be massive. It proposes the theory that matter is
continuously created, that stars grow in size and grow most
rapidly in the vicinity of the Galactic center where the gravity
potential and matter creation rate is highest. Furthermore
subquantum kinetics predicts that massive stars, such as blue
supergiants are among the oldest stars and are not young stars as
conventional theory predicts. LaViolette published this
prediction in 1985 (LaViolette, IJGS, pp. 341-342) and again in
1994 (LaViolettee,, Subquantum Kinetics, pp. 157 - 158). Also see
pp. 234 and 224 42 (last paragraph) of the second edition of
Subquantum Kinetics which describes the expectation that older,
more massive stars should reside near a galaxy's core.
Verification (1995): A group of astronomers (Krabbe et al.)
publish observations of the Galactic center stellar cluster which
indicate that the region within 1-1/2 light-years of the Galactic
center is populated with about two dozen luminous helium-rich
blue supergiants having masses of up to 100 solar masses. This
finding confirms the subquantum kinetics prediction. Unaware
of the subquantum kinetics prediction, they have difficulty in
accounting for this finding. They speculate that these are young
stars which must have formed between 3 and 7 million years ago
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
from gas residing in this region. But they are unable to explain
how this would occur since the large tidal shear in this region
should have disrupted such a star formation process.
Verification (2003): UCLA astronomer Andrea Ghez reports on
observations she has made of the Galactic center using infrared
speckle interferometry and adaptive optics. She was able to plot
the trajectories of these stars. Based on these observations, she
confirms that the stars in the immediate vicinity of the Galactic
center, within 0.01 light years, are very massive, but that they
have spectra typical of "young" stars (young by the conventional
definition). She finds this puzzling since the tidal forces in the
vicinity of the Galactic center would be much too strong to allow
stars to form through a gravitational accretion process, this being
especially true of the eight stars found closest to the Galactic
center. She suggests that these massive stars may in fact be old
stars whose proximity to the Galactic center has altered their
appearance to make them masquerade as young stars. However,
she is unable to offer any mechanism by which this could happen.
Here we find her coming close to the subquantum kinetics
prediction that these stars near the Galactic center should be very
massive. However, by following conventional theory, she must
resort to proposing mysterious stellar masquerading effects since
conventional theory erroneously interprets massive stars to be
young stars, instead of old stars. But with subquantum kinetics
these massive stars appear exactly as they should, namely as blue
supergiants which in this paradigm are very old stars.
Gravitational Repulsion - prevailing concept (1985): Electrons
are assumed to produce matter-attracting fields just like protons.
Gravitational repulsion is considered a speculative idea. Graav
vity
waves are theorized to produce transverse forces on masses, not
longitudinal forces.
Prediction No. 11 (1985): Subquantum kinetics predicted that
gravity should have two polarities correlated with charge and that
the electron should produce a matter-repelling gravity field.
Furthermore it predicted that electric shock discharges should
produce both eellectric and gravity potential wave components
capable of exerting longitudinal forces on charges and masses.
Published in: 1985 (IJGS), 1990 (ISSS), and 1994 (Subquantum
Kinetics).
Verification (2001): Drs. Evgeny Podkletnov and Giovanni
Modanese discover that an axial high-voltage electron discharge
produces a matter-repelling gravity wave that travels in the
direction of the discharge exerting a longitudinal repulsive
gravitational force on a distant test mass.
Gravity wave and Coulomb wave speed and gravity wave force
(2003): At the time of this prediction, most physicists and
astronomers believed that gravity waves and Coulomb waves
should always travel at the speed of light. They also concurred
that the force exerted by such waves should scale in proportion to
the field gradient.
Prediction No. 12 (2003): Subquantum kinetics predicts that an
electron shock discharge should produce coinciding electric and
gravity potential waves that travel faster than the speed of light
and that the speed of these superluminal waves at any given point
in time should depend on the electric potential gradient of the
discharge (LaViolette, Subquantum Kinetics, p. 130). This is
predicted to be due to the movement of the ether wind created by
the shocks, the velocity of the pulses being increased by the
additional forward velocity of the ether wind reference frame
relative to which they propagate. Furthermore subquantum
370
kinetics also predicts that the gravitational force exerted by such
shock waves should increase as the pulse's electric potential
gradient increases.
Verification (2005 - 2006): LaViolette worked with research
scientist Guy Obolensky to test this prediction with respect to the
speed of electric potential waves. Earlier Obolensky had reported
that he had measured the speed of electric shock fronts (Coulomb
waves) propagating away from a Dome antenna and found that
they traveled at a superluminal speed. Based on prediction 12,
LaViolette theorized that since the shock front expanded radially
outward from its emitting dome antenna, its electric field gradient
should decrease inversely with increasing distance from the dome
and that the superluminal speed of these shocks should
correspondingly decrease inversely with distance from the dome.
This prediction was confirmed. They made measurements of the
time of flight of the shock pulse to six locations of progressively
greater distance from the dome and found that thhee excess velocity
of the shock (v - c) declined inversely with distance just as had
been predicted. This experiment is summarized in chapter 6 of
the book Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion by Paul LaViolette. It
should be mentioned that Tesla also reported that the speed of his
pulses began at a near infinite speed at the dome of his antenna
and progressively declined toward c as they traveled further
away.
Verification (2008): The prediction with respect to the force
exerted by the gravity potential component of such waves was
verified qualitatively. Paul LaViolette contacted Dr. Eugene
Podkletnov and inquired about the performance of his gravity
impulse beam generator. Previously Drs. Podkletnov and
Modanese had reported in a published paper that the impulse
beam was able to deflect a test mass up to 14 centimeters when 2
million volts were discharged through the generator's
superconducting cathode disc (Podkletnov and Modanese, 2002).
Podkletnov had subsequently told LaViolette that the beam was
able to punch 4 inch holes through concrete blocks when 10
million volt pulses were discharged through the disk. In January
2008, LaViolette asked Podkletnov if his team used a different
electric pulse generator to produce the gravity pulses that
punched holes through concrete blocks as compared with the
ones that produced the 14 centimeter pendulum deflections and
whether the former used a different Marx capacitor bank that was
able to create a pulse with a steeper gradient. Dr. Podkletnov
concurred that was indeed the case, the concrete smashing pulses
were created with an electric discharge that had a much more
rapid voltage rise-time.
Verification (2008): The prediction with respect to the
superluminal speed of gravity potential component of such waves
was verified qualitatively. Previously, Dr. Podkletnov had told
LaViolette that he and Dr. Modanese had measured the speed of
the pulses to be between 63 and 64 times the speed of light. In
January of 2008, LaViolette asked Podkletnov whether the
concrete smashing pulses produced by the steeper electric field
gradients traveled much faster than the pendulum deflecting
pulses. Podkletnov concurred and said that they had determined
that these stronger pulses traveled at least several thousand times
the speed of light.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
Jordan Maxwell - The Takeover of Planet Earth
Loa Angeles, September 2009
This is a long-awaited, long-requested blockbuster of an
interview with one of the greatest alternative researchers of our
time. Here Jordan Maxwell tells all: and builds, through the three
hour video, to present his firm conclusions about what is
happening on Planet Earth.
According to Jordan, the picture is not pretty: the Earth is not
controlled by human beings; that the human race is currently
being mutated; and, to put it mildly, we are all in some degree of
trouble.
The dire conclusions Jordan has reached are mitigated by his own
fascinating personal story: that he was groomed and prepared for
his current role by nothing less than a group of benevolent ETs -
one of whom he met in person in the guise of the father of a girl
he met when he was just 19. He was explicitly told by this
remarkable (but very ordinarily human-looking) man - who told
him details of his life that no-one could possibly know - that he
would have a very important job to do later, in years to come. It
is very clear that he is doing that job right now.
In this video Jordan goes places in his testimony that he has not
spoken about publicly before in any venue. The reptilians are
real, he states: to support this, he recounts a fascinating and
extraordinary story told to him of one woman's first-hand
experience as a young girl on a US Air Force base. He talks about
the reality (and return) of the Anunnaki. And he cites Masonic
symbolism, that is to be found in ancient texts, the former USSR,
Nazi Germany, and the Obama administration - as well as in the
forthcoming TV remake of the classic Sci-Fi series 'V' - that
shows the interconnectedness of all these themes and cultures:
that something or someone is expected to return, and that this
event may or may not be in humanity's best interests.
Jordan Maxwell: The Takeover of Planet Earth
Los Angeles, California, September 2008
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
371
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Introduction:
All you need to do is just go out and do your job and have fun
and watch your basketball and stay out of the way of the adults
that run the world. I never bought that.
*** Nothing in this world – nothing – works the way you think it
does. There’s always more to the story.
*** But the reason why I’m here doing what I’m doing is
because of this mutation which is being foisted on the human race
– it’s being forced on the human race. This change that the
Masters of the Universe, so to speak, have in mind for the human
race is being foisted on us.
And I believe, again just my opinion, that my part in this cosmic
scheme or this cosmic play is to call people back to their
humanity and let them know: You’re being lead down the garden
path into something you don’t know what’s coming.
*** You know, I can’t stand it when people say that this is all
high technology of our government. No. I don’t buy that for a
minute. What I’ve seen with my own eyes, I don’t buy it for a
minute. If it has to do with our government, then what I have
actually witnessed with my own eyes, if it has to do with the U.S.
government, then it means that the U.S. government is in league
with extraterrestrials, because what I saw is extraterrestrial in
origin.
*** But I am totally convinced that there is now on the Earth –
again, for lack of a better term – alien presence which are the
enemies of the human race, and they are obviously enemies of
whoever the original Creators of us – because of the things I’ve
been told, that the people, or the entities who created us, the
“gods” who created us, have enemies out there in the universe.
*** Something I want to say about Spielberg... I have many,
many, many friends in the industry and I already know because
I’ve been told that virtually all the major names in Hollywood
know who I am. They should! I’ve been talking for 48 years, and
they’re using all my stuff now, so they should know me.
*** So I’m saying that I am totally convinced beyond a shadow
of a doubt, for myself, that there are such things as reptile aliens,
though I have never seen one, thank God. But I totally believe
they’re here – not because of David Icke, not because of Credo
Mutwa who I love listening to; a wonderful, fascinating man.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
David Icke has done great stuff. But I believe there are reptile
aliens here because of my own personal research.
Be aware that there is a war for your soul.
[set-up talking and joking omitted]
Interview begins:
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Jordan Maxwell, I’m very excited to
be here with you today. Bill Ryan and I -- I’m Kerry Cassidy
from Project Camelot -- couldn’t be more thrilled to have this
honor of interviewing you.
You’re one of the preeminent researchers; you’ve been on the
scene for over 40 years. I think you’re really responsible for
David Icke and Zecharia Sitchin, and numerous others coming to
the fore, talking about secret societies, the Illuminati, and really,
The Powers That Be behind the scenes.
There’s just no doubt that everyone, Hoagland, you name it, even
Wilcock -- everyone owes you a great THANK YOU for bringing
this subject-matter to the fore, and for your amazingly diligent
research in this area.
You’re an amazing mind. You’re really a national treasure, if you
don’t mind my saying so, here in America, and I know you’ve
been noticed overseas in that respect as well. So, what do you
have to say for yourself? Can you give a better introduction than
that?
JORDAN MAXWELL (JM): I would say that you are being very
generous and very kind and I appreciate all your words, but I
view myself as just an ordinary person just doing what I love to
do, and that is to look behind the scenes of world events, how
things really work. And I started doing this kind of research
diligently.
I grew up, and even as a child, spending most of my time in the
library. While all the other kids were out playing, I was sitting in
libraries. So I’ve always been interested to know things that other
people don’t seem to even know exist. I’ve always been
interested in the secret side of life, all of the hidden things in the
world that most people are not even aware of. I’m just fascinated
with how much there is to know that most people don’t even
know exists.
And so I grew up thinking that way, and by the time I was 19
years old, when I ended up in Los Angeles, I decided to dedicate
my whole life to studying what I would call the world of the
occult. The word occult simply means hidden.
So much of real knowledge and wisdom is hidden because the
people who run this planet feel that true knowledge and wisdom
of how the world really works is knowledge that you don’t need
to know – all you need to do is just go out and do your job and
have fun and watch your basketball and stay out of the way of the
adults that run the world. I never bought that.
When I was a child, I used to, of course, be happy when my
family would have other families coming over to visit because
they would bring their children and I’d have kids to play with.
372
But after dinner, the women would always end up in a group and
they’re talking women talk, and my dad and his brothers and
whoever else was there, all the men, would go in the front room
and smoke the cigars and have the wine and talk men talk.
And so, my dad and my uncles especially would always say:
Well, you kids go on out and play ball, and I would tell my uncle
– because dad’s brothers were wonderful; I loved them all – and
so I would tell my uncles: I don’t want to go out and play ball. I
want to hear what you guys are talking about, because I’m
assuming if you want me to go out and play ball that you’re
going to be talking about something that you don’t want me to
hear. I’m real curious to hear what you want to talk about that
you don’t want me to hear about.
KC: And you used to say that to them, I assume.
JM: Yeah.
KC: Yeah. So you were incredibly precocious.
JM: And so then, what they would do is my uncle and my dad
would say: Well, we’ll go out and play, too, you know, acting
like: Okay, we don’t need to talk about anything.
And of course, all the kids would now want to go out because my
dad and my uncles are going to be playing with us. So we would
all go out to play ball because now the adults were with us. And
of course, about ten minutes into the game, my dad would get
tired because he works all day, so he’s tired and that kind of
story. So he comes in, and then my uncles a few minutes later
would come in, but now the kids are all playing ball, so now
we’re happy.
I see that today. The President of the United States goes to the
opening ballgame. He throws out the first ball. That’s Daddy
throwing out the first ball for all the kids to be there, and all the
kids are watching their silly ballgames. And then of course they
would shoot into the audience of the ballgames and you see the
movie stars and big name politicians there watching the game.
And I’d think: You know, I know what that is. It’s just the guys
who are running the planet want all the poor people – all the kids
– to know that we adults who are running the world, we’re
human like you; we like to come out to the basketball game and
see the ballgames.
It kind of makes everyone feel kind of happy that our national
leaders and our movie stars are like us – they love the ballgames,
too. I never fell for that. I know what’s going on. These guys
couldn’t care less, but it’s just politics. It’s just, you know, go out
and let the people see that you are human like everyone else. I
never bought it.
I wanted to know about what these guys were talking about, two
o’clock in the morning when everyone else is asleep. That’s
when these guys talk.
KC: Absolutely. Can you possibly feel comfortable enough to
share what you shared with us last night, about the meeting with
that very special person? The one...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JM: I know what you’re saying. I’m just trying to think: Am I
comfortable talking about it?
KC: I understand.
JM: Well, let me go on, first, and lay some more foundation.
KC: All right.
JM: So it didn’t take me very long to figure out that so much of
what is going on, humans are not being told. We are not being
told the real truth.
A couple of things in particular I want you to know, and I want
you to remember. Nothing in this world – nothing – works the
way you think it does. There’s always more to the story.
You hear about some marriage breaking up and the husband did
this, the wife did that, and it’s very obvious what happened. No,
it’s not obvious what happened. There’s a lot more to the story
you don’t know. You don’t know her background, her past. You
don’t know his past. You don’t know what was going on in the
family. You have no idea. So nothing is simple. This is why you
have courts.
So I found that nothing in this world operates the way you think
it does. Banks do not loan money. Governments are not
empowered to protect you. Police department is not there to serve
you. Institutions of higher learning – colleges and educational
institutes – are not there to educate you.
The entire superstructure of civilization in the Western world is a
combination of brilliantly put-together and well-planned schemes
to direct the minds of the people in such a way as to serve their
masters. And I’ve known that for a long time.
One of the biggest tools in the hands of the masters who run this
world is Hollywood. Hollywood is an incredible story.
I’ve said this, and maybe many hearing me now have heard me
say this, but I’ll say it again – that the white man’s establishment
comes from Europe. And northern, southern... well, all four:
north, east, south and western Europe, even at the time of the
Roman Empire and before, that whole section of Europe that we
call the center for the white man’s presence on the Earth was
quite literally ruled over – ancient Europe was ruled over – by a
priesthood called the Druids.
The Druids were the ministers, the priests, the judges, the
lawyers; they were the religious leaders.
So it was priesthood that dominated Europe. It still does. Europe
is still a Druidic country, and America is a Druidic country.
Unless you understand the Druidic system, then you’re never
going to figure out what’s going on in America and England.
One of the most important symbols in the Druid system was a
magic wand, like Merlin the Magician with a magic wand? And
also, the orchestra leaders and conductors always have a magic
wand and you had better play to the tune of the master. He directs
373
you to play and he directs you to stop with the magic wand, so
you’re dancing to his music. Okay?
Magic wands were always made out of the wood of a Holly tree.
It’s made out of Holly wood. Hollywood is a Druidic
establishment and the symbols, the words, the terms, the stories,
are designed.
Think about it. Think about how Hollywood does what they do.
I’m not saying they’re evil, I’m just explaining how Hollywood
works.
You have, first of all, a story, so somebody has to write the story.
All right? So now you’ve got a story. Now you have to give it to
a screenwriter, who’s going to adapt that story into a screenplay
because you can’t just tell the story, you have to design it to be a
movie.
Now once you do that, then you’re going to have to hire the
actors – very important: actors -- because you’re gonna need
people to act the part. It doesn’t mean that they actually have
human feelings. No, no, they’re being paid to act like they care,
to act like they love someone. It’s an act.
And so you pay actors to act out the part that the screenwriters
have written, and you want to make sure the actors do it just
right, so you have to have a director and he’s going to direct
everything you say and do the way he wants it said.
Then you have, of course, the producer and he’s also subjected to
the executive producer who’s producing the money, and so all of
this is a whole system of putting together a system of a story that
tells you a story. It causes you to think in terms of what you just
saw, so that people go out from the movie and think in their
minds: This is the way you normally would react to a situation,
the way that the guy in the movie did.
And so that’s why today in the Western civilization, especially in
the West, our ability to work with each other and live together as
humans is so screwed up, because we‘ve been watching so much
television and so many movies and so much silliness coming out
of Hollywood; so much violence, and sex, and drugs, and all the
rest of it, that people have no idea in the world how to live
anymore. They’ve lost their humanity.
KC: Okay, so you’re saying that in many ways Hollywood
movies and television are actually sort of doing behavior
modification on people...
JM: Precisely.
KC: ...to get them to behave in certain ways, to think is socially
acceptable and then people actually go out and they act the way
they’re ”supposed” to act, rather than the way they really feel in
any human situation.
JM: Exactly. Precisely.
KC: So it cements the social structure.
JM: That’s it.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: I do understand that. Would you also talk about how movies
are revealing the Illuminati agenda?
JM: Oh God yes! What a story that is! Absolutely. Even more so
than you know, even more so than you suspect.
I have been looking at one subject for, well, since 1967. Let me
preface this: In Glendale, California, in 1967 I was researching
Communism for a lecture I was going to give and I went to a
World Book Encyclopedia and there was the picture of the
national coat of arms of the Soviet Union and the Soviet flag.
That was in ’67.
Well, I started speaking to small, little groups in ’60, so for seven
years, I’d already been talking to little mom and pop groups, and
little library rooms, and little bookstores, and all that kind of
thing. But it was in ’67 that I came across a symbol which was
the national coat of arms of the Soviet Union.
I was familiar by that time with a particular term that the
Communists have used, the Nazis have used, the British have
used, the Americans have used, and so when I saw this symbol
and the explanation for the symbol in the World Book
Encyclopedia, it finally hit me that something is going on, on a
massive, enormous scale around the world.
For the first time I saw it in the Soviet national coat of arms,
because it was using the same words and terms that Hitler had
used, the Nazis had used, that the fascists had used in Italy.
And now as I began to look, the people of India used it; the
governments around the world are using the same symbol, so I
knew that I had stumbled upon something of profound
significance. I didn’t know what it was, but I already knew, I had
a gut feeling that something is really big going on, on the Earth,
and the Soviet national coat of arms was what triggered my
catching that.
BILL RYAN (BR): When you talked about the symbols there,
that reminded me how much of your work is about the
interpretation of symbols. Somebody mentioned to me that you
were actually the model for the symbologist that was played by
Tom Hanks in the movie The DaVinci Code. Can you say
anything about that? Is it true that that was based on your work
and your personality and your research?
JM: Well, I’m not in a position to say for sure, because I’m not
privy to how they came up with what they did in the movie. All I
will say that is for sure and provable is that in 1991, I think it
was, I did a presentation that was videotaped in the Pasadena area
at a bookstore – and the video is out all over the world. It’s called
The Basic Slide Presentation.
In that – that was back in 1991, Pasadena – I was introduced as
an expert on secret societies and occult emblems and symbols of
religion and government.
I walked up onto the stage, and it was a slide presentation that I
was doing, and so I had the slide projector on, and the slide that
was being projected on the screen – I left it on even before I
started just to have a picture for people to see when they came in
– so the slide projector was already on. The picture that was on
374
the screen was the back of the dollar bill, the pyramid on the back
of the dollar bill. When I walked up onto the platform, I walked
in front of the screen, so now it was being projected on me.
BR: That was in the movie.
JM: And then I started pointing to the symbols on the dollar bill
[Kerry laughs] and explaining the emblems or words. That’s
exactly the same scene that’s in the movie.
BR: I remember it. It was very dramatic, if you recall.
JM: Yeah. Go back and get my Basic Slide Presentation back in
’91 and it’s the same identical thing.
BR: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
JM: Right, I guess. Of course, I didn’t get a check or anything.
[laughs] And then of course in 1992 or ’93, something like that, I
did a video called Matrix of Power in which I talked about how
the world is being manipulated behind the scenes by occult or
magical symbols and words that are deceiving civilization,
deceiving people. Then later on a movie comes out called Matrix.
But I’ve been talking about this, you know, this subject for many,
many years before.
Now, one thing a lot of people do not know is that I was going
around, it can be told now, but I was going around to studios in
the ’70s and in the early ’80s. Especially in the ’70s, I was going
around to all the motion picture studios at nighttime. Working-
class people in the studios would have me come in and do a
presentation – a slide projector, just a little Mickey Mouse
operation, slide projector, throw up a screen, and I would give
lectures on Bible codes, Knights Templars, secret societies, and
those kind of arcane subjects.
Many times I would give lectures like that to just the working-
class people of the studio and then sometimes we would rent
some office within the studio lot where I could go and sit and talk
with a bunch of people who were working at the studio. I was just
having fun talking about things I enjoy. You know, they would
order beer and pizza, we’d sit and talk, and I would do a two- or
three-hour slide presentation on Bible codes, secret societies.
In ’66, late ’66 as I said before, I learned about the Illuminati as
such, and so I started giving lectures at the studios on Illuminati;
Masonic Orders, both the British Grand Lodge and the American
Freemasonry; the French and German Orders, and tying them all
into the secret societies that operate around the globe -- and also
incorporating in those lectures, as I said, in the ’70s, the subject
of Illuminati, which I had gotten from Anthony Hilder’s records
that were put out in 1966.
And so today I see, you know, on television, on History Channel,
and all kinds of movies from Hollywood talking about Illuminati.
BR: This actually comes from your research. It’s percolated itself
down into the popular culture.
JM: Well I mean, if you just keep talking for 48 years,
somebody’s going to finally hear you somewhere. [laughs]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Well, it’s very possible that they were actually filming and sitting right in front of you and you never saw it. That’s how
taping you at the studio. clever these guys are.

JM: Well, I know they did. Actually they were doing it, but it was KC: So what are you talking about? We’re going to put it on the
like individuals would have their cameras and would videotape screen. It’s two mountains and a rising sun. Is that right?
and they would audiotape.
JM: Right.

KC: So what are the words and what does this mean?

JM: But, lookit, just to be able to see it, which you will be able to
put into the video, but just to be able to see it is not sufficient.
You need about 25 or 30 years of research to understand the
significance of what you’re seeing and what it actually means. So
you’ll be able to show it and it will be something of interest that
people will pick up on, but believe me, there’s a bigger story yet.

So when you’re hearing the term Illuminati or the concepts of

secret societies, occult orders and all that kind of thing, it’s
actually much bigger than you think. There is something far
bigger going on, on the Earth that most people are not aware of.

KC: Okay. The rising sun. Are we talking about the rising sun?
KC: But even behind the scenes, there could have been recording
Are we talking about the rising of the New World Order?
going on.

JM: That’s right. Exactly.

JM: Who knows.

KC: We’re also talking about something else, aren’t we?

KC: Yeah. I mean, obviously a lot of what you talked about has
shown up in plot-lines in screenplays, and then in movies.
JM: Yes. That’s right. Something very big.
JM: Oh yeah. Absolutely.
KC: Something more occult even than that.
KC: So maybe we can go back again to where you got involved.
You were talking about the Soviet Crest and maybe we could JM: Something that goes all the way back into B.C., back into the
pick up there. ancient world. Zecharia Sitchin and I have talked about this. At
one time I was in business with Zecharia Sitchin. I helped send
him to different countries and we were going to do a television, a
JM: Yeah. So this was in ’67. 1967 as I said, I’m in Glendale,
13-week mini-special I was going to do with Zach.
California. I was researching the Communist movement, and so I
went to the World Book Encyclopedia and there in the World
Book Encyclopedia was a picture of the national coal of arms of Zecharia Sitchin has been my dear friend, and a brilliant man,
the Soviet Union and the communist flag. and I was so impressed with him [that] I talked him into signing a
contract with me to do a 13-week mini-series for television.
Unfortunately, the attorneys and the people who were financing
I already understood the symbols of the communist flag, but my
the project for me, at the last minute, after we had already shot
eye caught that national coat of arms and I saw in that symbol
like five different countries and we were almost through, they
something I had seen the Nazis use [and] all the great nations of
pulled the plug on the whole project. So it wasn’t Zach’s fault, it
the world have used. All the Presidents of the United States in
wasn’t my fault. It was the people financing it, they faltered.
their Inaugural Addresses used the same words and terms. All the
senators and congressmen, when they’re running for office, use
that same term, that same symbol. But I’ve had a lot of opportunities to talk to Zecharia about things
that I’m interested in, and I’ve learned a lot talking to him in
private, which will, unfortunately, have to stay private.
So I knew I had stumbled upon something of profound
significance. I just didn’t know what it meant, but I knew it was
important. This was in ’67. KC: Okay. So you’re not able to tell anything about something
that he told you that was actually very significant. JM: No, it’s
just that the symbol I’m talking about is on the national coat of
And so, since ’67 I have been researching this one term, this one
arms of the Soviet Union, so I would say anyone who’s interested
symbol, and the more I find on it, the more I’m amazed at how
in this, look at the symbols on the national coat of arms and study
much there is out there on this one secret symbol that nobody is
it. Don’t just look at it, but look at all the implications of it and
aware that it’s right in front of you. It’s one of those incredibly
then follow the others pictures that I have, that I will give you.
fantastic stories of something that is so awesome in scope and it’s
Each one’s a step closer, and another step closer to it, and it
keeps going. I think there’s about six or seven pictures.
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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Okay. But it also links up with the Japanese, the use of the
red sun; also the sun that was in Obama’s Inauguration in the
background.
JM: Exactly.
DAVID WILCOCK (DW): What about in Pittsburgh? The G-20
summit? It’s like a grid?
JM: I know.
DW: That’s the same thing.
KC: But isn’t there some occult significance to the Sun itself?
JM: Of course there is.
KC: And are we talking about something to do with the
Annunaki as well, and their agenda?
JM: Yes, yes, absolutely. That’s exactly what it’s about. There is
a hidden agenda that’s been in operation on this Earth for
thousands of years. And see, I’m at a disadvantage because I’m
trying to explain something to an audience who have not been
where I’ve been and seen what I have, and so I’m having a
difficulty trying to legitimize what I’m saying if you haven’t seen
what I’ve seen, and so...
KC: Okay. Well, that’s part of the purpose of the interview. I
mean, we are Camelot, we have a lot of background information
already on our site, as you know, and so in many ways the people
that are watching this, they’ll have been already educated, if they
weren’t to begin with, by Camelot, by the other people that have
come before you.
JM: I understand.
KC: But I think it’s very significant that we’re talking now and I
think that what we’ve touched on here is like, this is the
beginning of a revealing that most people are not aware of.
JM: Yes.
KC: And obviously you’ve got that story. Okay?
JM: I tell you, no matter how well prepared and how well-read
you are, I will guarantee you you’ve not heard this story.
KC: Okay.
JM: I have a story no one’s heard, and I’ve been looking at it for
some... since ’67, so we’re talking about, how many years is that?
’67 to 2007? That’s what, 40 years?
KC: Yes.
JM: Yeah.
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KC: Yeah. Absolutely. And when did you actually stumble on the
final... I feel like in a sense you have the full meaning of it at this
stage. I think that perhaps you have that full meaning, so I’m
asking you, in a sense, when did you arrive there? How many
years ago did you actually get to the...
JM: I think probably somewhere in the mid ’90s it began to really
dawn on me.
KC: Okay, yeah, and dawn has something to do with it.
JM: That’s right.
KC: We’re also talking about…
JM: We’re talking about an ancient, ancient story that has been...
KC: The Golden Dawn. We’re talking about the Golden Dawn
and the information there.
JM: Absolutely.
KC: But what...?
JM: Much further back. The Golden Dawn was just one more
step in a continuing flow of a particular idea, and as it moves into
the last days of the world that we’re living in, we’re now entering
into a new dispensation – I choose that term – dispensation of
time in which this symbol is going to be everywhere.
KC: Okay.
JM: And [sighs] I would like to be able to give like a two-and-a-
half to three-hour presentation just on this one symbol.
A rather successful motion picture producer and I were talking
about doing a movie. After I gave him some of the information,
he called it, Let’s call the movie The Symbol, and then we talked
about it and said: Well, maybe The Hidden Symbol. I have the
contract and here’s the movie that we want to do and we’ll call it
The Symbol or The Hidden Symbol.
That never got done, for all kinds of reasons. But then I see the
new movie coming out with Dan Brown, The Hidden Symbol?
And I’m thinking: These guys who are smart, intelligent and
Hollywood, they are either knowledgeable on this symbol and are
releasing it slowly but surely, OR there’s some kind of an
understanding going on that people are starting to look at
symbols more now and beginning to put the pieces together, like
I’ve been doing for 48 years, and now they are beginning to
perceive what I’m talking about. But they haven’t got there yet.
And so it’s a form of professional jealousy. I would like to be the
one that presents my work before Warner Brothers gets ahold of
it from somebody else.
KC: Exactly. I mean, here’s your opportunity. So anything you
hold back at this point, I mean, really you do so at your own risk,
in a sense.
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JM: I understand.
KC: Because this is an opportunity and we are really coming
close to the juncture – I mean 2012 and beyond – where this
agenda is really coming to the fore.
JM: I know and it’s just incredible, watching it.
KC: It’s amazing that you’ve been watching this thing with full
awareness as each step, each roll-out...
JM: For 40 years I’ve been watching it coming.
KC: And so, take us down the path.
JM: All the Presidents of the United States – all of them – have
used the same terms, from George Washington. The terms he
used and the things he said were taken directly from the ancient
prehistoric world of the Annunaki, the ancient gods, from the
ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Phoenician-Canaanites, ancient
Greece, ancient Rome. They all the used the same word and the
same term.
KC: Okay, what is the term? What are the terms?
JM: The term is The Dawn of the New Day. And the concept of
The Dawn of a New Day is the Sun rising between two
mountains.
This goes back to the beginning of Christianity in the 4th century
when Constantine codified the religion called Christianity.
Christianity is nothing more than... In my opinion, Christianity is
the most popular rendition of the ancient cult story, this ancient
thing that for thousands of years has been hidden from people,
but the masters of the world, the kings and rulers, have all
understood.
Christianity is telling you the same story, but you don’t see it, so
people are fixated on Jesus and on his ministry and never for a
moment suspect that the entire story is the same ancient story
that’s been told by so many ancient cultures and is today part of
the New World Order, Illuminati, Masonic Orders around the
Earth.
The entire superstructure of Western civilization has bought into
this most ancient story, never realizing for a moment what
they’re doing.
KC: Okay. I have some clues along the lines of this, and I have to
say you’re really talking about the rise of the Son of Anu
[Anubis].
JM: Exactly.
KC: I don’t know if it’s Marduk, but it’s Orion, the son of Orion.
Can you tell us?
JM: Now you’re getting close. That’s right.
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KC: Okay. This is him coming back, actually, to sit on the throne
and to rule the world.
JM: Mm hm.
KC: And so maybe you can sort of start to paint that picture.
Now, is he coming in a craft?
JM: Well, don’t know. Maybe. I would not be a bit surprised if
they’re already here, just waiting.
KC: Okay.
JM: They don’t have to come, they’re already here. That’s what
Steven Spielberg said in his War of the Worlds. They’re not
coming; they’re already here and they popped up from out under
the street. Symbolically what Hollywood and Steven Spielberg
are saying: They’re right under your feet. They’re right under the
surface.
KC: Well, according to Bob Dean, they’re walking the halls of
the Pentagon.
JM: I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. Yeah.
KC: So we certainly have witness testimony in that area.
JM: I’m going to do a presentation on this very soon. I already
have about a 3-hour presentation all ready to go that I want to
explain it.
KC: Okay, but this ruler coming to kind of take control, is this a
positive thing in your view or a negative thing?
JM: I think negative.
KC: Okay.
JM: I think very negative, but the whole world is sucking it up.
They love it, never realizing the full implications of what’s being
said.
It’s like some kids going into Hollywood, you know, leaving
home and they’re going to Hollywood. They’re going to be in the
motion picture capital of the world, never realizing that on the
streets of Hollywood and this city is not some place for an
innocent kid. You’re getting yourself involved with something
you have no idea in the world how bad it really is.
I think that so many people have bought into the different
religions orders – Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphias,
Worldwide Church of God [and the] Mormon Church. All of
these are part and parcel of a larger world movement that’s been
planned for a long time.
And where the world, especially in the Western world, I’m
talking mostly in the Western world because the Arabic world is
also heavily involved in this, but that’s a different subject. But for
the moment, Western Civilization is just going over the wall with
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this thing. Everybody has bought into it. You’re seeing it in
politics...
KC: Okay. It’s in the Japanese flag, so there has to be some
acquiescence there, with China and all. You know.
JM: Oh yeah. Absolutely. They’re all using it and they’re all
buying into this whole new order of the world, never realizing
what this actually implies.
You know, the very term Novus Ordo Seclorum on the back of
the dollar bill? That comes from the Roman poet, Virgil. In
ancient Rome there was a poet that was appointed by the court of
Rome to write poetry for Caesar, and of course, if you’re going to
write poetry for Caesar, you want to write something nice that he
will like.
So Virgil in one of his poems called Aeneid, wrote about the time
when there would come a great world ruler in the seat of Caesar,
but this ruler would be awesome in power, to be far more than
any man could ever be. That time when he would come, the Sun
would rise on the Novus Ordo Seclorum, a New World Order,
and when that one comes, it would be the beginning of a whole
new civilization. The term that Virgil used in Latin was Novus
Ordo Seclorum, a new order of the world.
Now, when you get into the subject, now you have to get to the
Hebrew and Jewish religion, where Judaism comes from, where
Christianity comes from, where Islam actually comes from, and
trace back like Zecharia Sitchin has done for us. And he’s not the
only one; there are many who have written on this subject of the
ancient world and the symbols and words and terms and theology
that’s come down to us for thousands of years.
There’s just so much we could talk about that without pictures,
without the ability to show the audience what I’m talking about,
it’s a little difficult. But I’m going to be doing a series on it. I’ve
already got it pretty well...
KC: Okay. But basically we’re talking about the beginning of a
reign with this king, who is a Sun [and/or Son] and he’s basically
going to take control of the world.
JM: Right. Of the whole Earth.
KC: Yeah. And...
JM: And the destiny of the human family – period.
KC: Okay. And do you know where that destiny is headed? In
other words, what is unique about this Son [and/or Sun] and his
proclivities, his point of view, where he’s coming from that’s
different from what we’ve had before?
JM: I think that the agenda of this one who is to come is to
mutate the human race. I believe that is what is the agenda, is to
mutate the human race – not necessarily evolution, though I
believe that evolution has its place in the world.
I think that there are things which do evolve. And I’m not talking
about man coming from monkeys because, obviously, man did
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not come from monkeys -- man is evolving into monkeys. [Kerry
laughs] And so, that’s the problem. There is a place for evolution,
but that’s not what I’m talking about.
This ancient story, coming from the ancient and prehistoric
world, has dominated all the cultures of the world. What that
implies, I believe, is there’s going to be some kind of a mutation
of the human race in order to take the human family on the Earth
to a new style of life in the universe.
And so, what will be lost will be your humanity, your ability to
show love and kindness to other people. There will be no room
for that. Emotions – there will be no room for emotions. There
will be no room for the American system of freedom, liberty, and
justice for all. That’s gone. That’s out. There will be no more
freedom, liberty, and justice for all. No more family love, no
more humanity, man reacting to man. No. All of that’s going to
be gone.
KC: Aren’t you also saying, though, that there is a race of
humans being... actually that this isn’t gonna start in the future,
that it’s already started.
JM: Oh yeah. It’s already started.
KC: The preparation, the genetic modification of the human,
actually, behind the scenes.
JM: Yes. You know, in the Book of Genesis in the Bible, the Old
Testament in Genesis 18, the 18th chapter -- I did a video on this
-- it talks about Abraham and Sarah, the prophet Abraham. It says
that three men – in Genesis 18; go back to read it yourself – it
says that three men come walking up into the camp.
Abraham went out and greeted the three men and asked them to
stay for dinner and they said no, they were on their way to other
business and did not have time to stop. It says that Abraham
insisted that they stay at least to have something to eat and then
they could go, and they agreed, so they said: All right, make it
quick, we’ll stay for something.
And so the Bible says in Genesis 18 that Sarah, his wife, fixed
dinner for them, they sat under a tree, had dinner with Abraham.
Then it says after dinner, two of the men got up and left to go on
about their business, but the one that stayed was the Absolute
Creator God, the one who had created the human creature. He sat
with Abraham, having dinner under the tree, and then gave
prophecies to Abraham and then got up and left. Now that’s in
Genesis 18.
First of all, my question is: Wait a minute. It says there were
three men and the three men come up and had dinner with
Abraham.
And then in Genesis 19, the following chapter, it says that those
two men who had gotten up earlier and left were the two angels
that went into Sodom and Gomorrah. It says that when these two
angels or men went into Sodom and Gomorrah, the homosexuals
saw these guys, these two men, and thought that they were
absolutely handsome, beautiful, good-looking men, and they
attracted the homosexuals. Go read it in Genesis 19.
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But that tells me, if those were the same two men that were with
Abraham having dinner, the scripture said they were absolutely
handsome, good-looking, handsome men and God the Creator is
still sitting under the tree with Abraham having dinner. And it
says GOD in all capital letters. The Creator of the human race is
there with Abraham.
So I’m just saying that I’m sure that there are spiritual
interpretations of all this, but I think there is a legitimacy about
the story that when we read in Genesis where God walked with
Adam and Eve in the cool of the evening, the word in Hebrew –
God walked with Adam – that Hebrew word means you can hear
a footstep stepping on leaves, you can hear the footsteps.
That’s what the Hebrew word means. So we poetically say: Well,
God probably was with Adam and Eve spiritually. No, no. The
word in Hebrew says: God walked with Adam. You can hear his
footsteps on the leaves.
All of this implies in the Old Testament that whoever created us
looked like us and that’s why the scriptures says, God says:
Come, let us make man in our image after our likeness. That’s in
Genesis One; Genesis One and Two, both.
Many years ago I talked with Rabbi Marvin Antelman. Rabbi
Marvin Antelman from Massachusetts was a dear friend of mine.
I think he’s still alive today in the Knesset in Israel. But he and I
used to talk long hours, and I asked him once about that scripture:
Come, let us make man in our image after our likeness.
He said both Jews and Christians misunderstand that scripture
because they gloss over it too quickly. Most people think that
when they read that scripture that God is saying: Come, let us
make a creature and we will call him man.
Well, first of all you gotta ask who is God talking to? Himself?
He’s saying come let us. Who’s us? So he says: Come, let us
make man in our image after our likeness.
He said no, that’s not the way to translate it correctly. He’s
saying the correct understanding is God is saying to someone:
Come, let us make man in our image, after our likeness – not
make man. No, no. Man’s already here. But come, let us re-form,
mutate man. Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
And later on in Genesis it says: Man has now becomes as one of
us. Now he looks like us.
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So if that is true, then that means today – and I am totally
convinced that this is the case – we have entities here from
somewhere else; angels, gods, whatever you want to call them.
Zecharia Sitchin called them Annunaki.
But I am totally convinced for my own self that there are alien
lifeforms here who look like humans and yet they’re not fully
human.
And of course in Genesis we’re told that there’s a world of
difference. We understand in the Book of Genesis there’s a world
of difference between an angel and the Sons of God. Sons of God
are not angels and angels are not Sons of God – totally different
concept. Totally different words.
Sons of God are spirit entities or entities from somewhere who
look and have physical bodies and look like humans. They are
called Sons of God, while angels are spirit entities.
So we’re told in the Bible, again going back to Genesis, that the
Sons of God were messing around with women and got them
pregnant. Well, I kind of figured that these Sons of God, their
plumbing worked the same way, so therefore, they could get
women pregnant. And I cannot imagine a woman being talked
into bed by some hideous creature from another world, but I can
see it if it’s a handsome, good-looking man. Well, that’s what the
Bible said, even the homosexuals said they were beautiful,
handsome men.
All of this I’m bringing out as Biblical reference for my
conclusion, that I think Zecharia Sitchin is right. I think other
people who have written about this same subject are right, that
there are in fact entities here – lifeforms here – that have come
here from somewhere else. Maybe they were the originals, and
they are today, in my humble opinion, the people who are
running this planet. It would not surprise me a bit.
KC: Are these the Nephilim?
JM: I don’t know. They could be the Nephilim because not all the
Nephilim died at The Flood. A lot of Christians will tell you all
the Nephilim died in the Flood. No, that’s not what the Bible
says. It says that there was one of the Nephilim lived through The
Flood. His name was Og of Bashan. Og of Bashan was one of the
Nephilim and he lived through The Flood and could reproduce
and reproduce more like himself.
We know that there have been skeletons found way down in the
Earth around the world that are far bigger than we humans are
today. Some of them are 16 feet long, some of them 20 feet long,
12 feet long. So I’m sure that there have been extraterrestrial, for
lack of a better term, extraterrestrial lifeforms who have come
here who we look like them. They don’t look like us. They
created us in their image and likeness.
KC: Okay but this new sort of ruler, is the Sun [and/or Son] of
God. Right? He’s going to be ruling, in other words, between
these two mountains. Now I’m wondering what the mountains
are symbolizing.
JM: Yeah. Very good.
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KC: Because the mountains... are we talking about the Soviet
Union and the U.S.? Are those the mountains where the Sun
[and/or Son] is going to rise between those two mountains? Or
are we talking about planets?
JM: I think that we’re talking about something deeper, the
implications being that in all of the ancient world there was
always a concept, and theologies of all the ancient cultures of the
world used it, of twin towers, twin things, twin churches, twin
towers. That’s why that whole thing about in New York, twin
towers?
That is in-your-face if you understand the symbolism of twin
towers in the Roman Empire, and the Grecian empire, in
Sumeria, Babylonia. Especially in Egypt – they always had the
two obelisks. They always had the two towers, always. So there
is a very powerful significance to the concept of twin towers,
very important symbolism.
KC: Okay. So we’ve got twins and we’ve got basically Gemini,
and how does that work in? Are we talking about, I don’t know,
when this so-called god was born? Are we talking about the
constellation when his rule will begin?
JM: I think it will probably be when he comes into power, this
will be his symbol. His symbol will be the sun rising between the
mountains of the East. Zecharia Sitchin talks about that.
Many of the books on the ancient Middle Eastern religions have
pictures of Shamash; the Hebrew god is Shamash, meaning the
Sun rising between the mountains of the East. That goes all the
way back to the cuneiform pictures, the clay pictures from
Sumeria and Babylonia or from Iraq, pictures of the god rising
between two mountains. Again, it’s very difficult for me to make
this intelligently understood, because I don’t have the pictures,
and it would take me about three hours to lay the foundation for
this.
KC: I understand.
JM: So I’m just giving you some brief glimpses into what I’m
going to be doing soon on this video.
KC: Okay. Is this ruler... are we talking about Marduk? Or is
Marduk already here and this is somebody who’s coming after
him?
JM: I’m not sure about that.
KC: Okay.
JM: But again I would say it all boils down to one thing in my
mind – that the human race on the Earth is being prepared, slowly
but surely, in a scientific method being applied to the human race
to mutate the human race, to change us from being what we are
today to a creature that the Gods have in mind, mutating again.
Because if the Bible is correct, if Zecharia Sitchin’s correct and
all the other writers on the subject are correct...
BR: This is a real detective story here. I’m on the edge of my
seat, thinking: Wow, are we talking about the return of the
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Annunaki? Is this connected with the Christian myth of a Second
Coming?
JM: That’s right.
KC: This particular video is not really for, you know, people that
are just coming to the subject. This actually is for people who
have...
JM: A cursory understanding of all this.
KC: ...a background and do understand and have possibly read
Sitchin’s work, for example, and are up to speed with even David
Icke’s work and our work.
JM: Right.
BR: And who may have been following you for many years
because in recent interviews, for example, on Coast to Coast for
example, you hinted heavily that there are things which you are
not ready to say yet.
JM: Yes.
BR: And a lot of people will be watching this, wondering
whether this is the time and you’ve chosen to tell all.
JM: Yeah. That’s true. Yeah.
KC: What we have established here is that there is a very
predominant symbol and you’ve talked about how it’s permeated
every aspect of life and religion and that people are really not up
to speed on what it really means for the human race.
JM: Absolutely. That’s right.
KC: And this is sort of a stunning revelation for many people that
are listening to this. But I would like to say, what we are seeing
right now is a roll-out of an Illuminati agenda that involves
population reduction. What I’m curious is whether or not you can
talk about how this agenda to do with the Son [and/or Sun]
coming to the throne of the world, if indeed this transpires, the
creation of a new race of humans...
JM: Right.
KC: ...and how population reduction folds into that.
JM: Well, I think if you’re going to have a whole new race of
humans; they are cultured. That’s why we refer to different races
of people as “cultures” and a culture is something under a
microscope, you know; it’s like a bacteria. And so that’s what we
are on the Earth – we are a culture. And somebody has actually
put us here as a culture, and is watching us grow, and we have
become a disease, because we’re killing everything in our path.
And so I think that whoever it is that has created us had created
us, I believe, possibly already knew that in the far future, once
this race is finally brought up to speed, and then we can move it
into the next plateau. This is what the Nazis were talking about.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
This is what Wernher von Braun was talking about. The Nazis
were big on this subject and using the symbol and the term that
I’m talking about, the symbol between the mountains of the East.
England – interesting about this, is England has always had a
fixation on Egypt. England’s big on Egypt. Go to the British
Museum and all these different museums. The English were
always big on Egypt, but the Germans were not.
The Germans were always big on Iraq. That’s what Germany was
interested in – Babylon. And the reason why, I think, is because
the Nazis and the German people in general, or at least the
intelligentsia of the German establishment, realized this story that
I’m trying to explain has to do with Babylon. It has to do with
Iraq. And I believe that may be one of the reasons why the U.S. is
in Iraq today.
KC: Absolutely.
JM: It has something to do with some... and I know this is true
because I can prove that the symbols which are being used by the
U.S. government today in Iraq is exactly the same symbols that I
was telling you about that comes from the Annunaki, from the
Phoenician-Canaanites, the Assyrians, the Phoenicians, ancient
Greece, ancient Rome, ancient Britannia, into America.
The entire superstructure of civilization has been using the same
words and terms and symbols that are today dominating in Iraq,
but most people don’t even know. They don’t even see it.
KC: I understand.
JM: It’s hidden in plain sight.
KC: Okay, but there is a stargate in Iraq that’s fairly well known
that Saddam Hussein... apparently they had to get rid of him
because he had found it and was able to control it while he was in
power.
JM: Yeah.
KC: So in essence the U.S. is never... It’s been my theory that the
U.S. is never going to leave Iraq because basically they have to
man that stargate. They have to have control of that stargate,
which is where it is said the Annunaki will return, through that
stargate. Have you heard that theory?
JM: Well yeah, I have. Absolutely. And one of my favorite
speakers on that subject is William Henry. William and I have
been around the world together, went to Egypt together. We
talked a long time about stargates. I understand the story. I didn’t
say anything about stargates. That’s William Henry’s work that
influenced me in that direction. But I am aware that Hollywood is
talking about stargates and making movies about it.
I did a lecture series with Al Bielek and Preston Nichols. I did
two weekend seminars in which the three of us spoke together
back in Philadelphia, and I had some time to sit and talk with
Preston Nichols. Incidentally, I am highly impressed with Preston
Nichols.
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KC: Okay.
JM: You have to be highly impressed with that man when you sit
and talk with him because he is a very, very interesting man. He’s
got a lot of very good information on the kind of thing I’m
talking about in private with him and he was enlightening me to
some of the things I’m seeing and saying.
KC: But he’s heavily involved in the Montauk story.
JM: Absolutely.
KC: And the Philadelphia Experiment being the early precursor
of that, and then also time travel, which is where Montauk was
headed.
JM: Exactly.
KC: And then you get into the stargates and so on. And this has
something to do with letting in – I’m theorizing here, so I want
you to help me – but my understanding with the Montauk Project
was that there were some openings made in, not just the timeline,
but also in space, so to speak, where certain races were able to
come in through an open door, basically, that was created by the
Montauk Project.
JM: Yeah.
KC: I’m wondering if that has to do with the genetic engineering
of our planet, such that they were coming in to do a job.
JM: Well, yeah, I think all of that has some validity. I don’t know
that much about the stargate itself concept. I understand it, but I
mean, that’s not my subject, but it plays into my subject, it’s part
of it, and it must be important because Hollywood’s making
movies about it all the time. They actually have television shows
– Stargate. So I’m sure there’s something very legitimate about
the concept.
All I’m saying is that when I was talking and spent two weekends
with Al Bielek and Preston Nichols and myself, I was very
impressed with both Al Bielek and Preston Nichols because, in
my opinion, sitting with them for hours on end and working with
them over the weekend; both of them are extremely interesting,
provocative people. I was having fun downloading all this stuff to
Preston and he’s saying: Yeah, well here’s something else you
didn’t see. [Kerry laughs] And so, I have the highest regard for
him.
KC: That’s wonderful to hear, actually, because I do think there
is great validity there and some very important clues.
JM: I think Preston Nichols is absolutely sensational. I love
everything, I loved... He was such a gracious person, helpful,
kind, courteous, and brilliant to sit and talk with, so I love
Preston Nichols.
KC: I hear you. Now, what about Zecharia Sitchin? When he
talks about the Annunaki, there was a group of the Annunaki that
went to Mars, that left this planet. And actually some of which, I
guess, came from wherever the Annunaki came from, and never
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actually made it here. So there’s a group that kind of went back to
Mars and then some that came from... according to Sitchin, I’m
saying.
So what I’m wondering is, what was going on with Mars? We
know that Hoagland has gone down that road quite a distance, but
I think that you’ve given him many of the clues and the basis for
his work.
There’s something to do with... Now, I’m not an expert on this,
but I do understand that the positioning of the Great Pyramid and
the significance with the association with Mars. And then, of
course, we’re talking about Babylon, and Babylon and Mars are
symbols for the same thing. Isn’t this right? And the Whore of
Babylon, and there’s something going on there.
JM: That’s right. That’s what I’m talking about.
KC: Maybe you could talk about that a little bit, about Mars and
the significance with the Annunaki and where that might be
leading.
JM: And the very word Cairo, as you probably know, Cairo
means Mars.
KC: Exactly.
JM: Another word for Mars is Cairo.
KC: So what is going on with that?
JM: Yeah. That is a subject which Richard is probably better
suited to talk about than I, because I really haven’t looked at
Mars over and above the general kind of stuff he talks about. But
I totally believe for myself that Mars is inhabited, and I do
believe that there are probably humans like us there.
Quite a long time ago I had a long conversation in Mesa,
Arizona, with Virgil Armstrong Postlethwaite. Virgil Armstrong
and I sat in a restaurant in Mesa, Arizona, many years ago and
talked about the people who are on Mars.
Virgil was a guy, from what I gather, was the man who came up
with the idea – he was a military/CIA operative – and he’s the
guy that came up with the idea for Green Berets. That was his
idea, Green Beret, and he worked with the CIA. I loved sitting
and talking with Virgil Armstrong. But he brought out in that
conversation how there were many thousands of people, or more,
like us – humans like us – on Mars at that time. And I wouldn’t
be a bit surprised.
KC: What year was this that you were talking to him?
JM: This was probably mid ’80s.
KC: Amazing.
JM: I would say ’85, ’86, ’87, something like that.
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KC: Okay. Well that does dovetail also with our experience with
our witness, Henry Deacon. Arthur Neumann is his real name and
he has come out under that name recently, and said he’s been to
Mars. So I’m wondering if you have any information that’s come
to you about jumpgates, about going between planets.
JM: Well, yes and no. The only thing I have of any value is
someone else’s work. I sat and talked with him and he is a very,
very knowledgeable, very legitimately... he worked for the
United States Naval Observatory. He was in charge of the Naval
Observatory, and he just passed away just recently. But his
website is so extraordinary, the stuff he has on that website,
pictures of strange things found on Mars – and they’re not
nebulous things; they’re in your face. I mean, those tubes,
Plexiglas tubes.
KC: Yes. Amazing.
JM: And lights in those tubes. There’s just an enormous amount
of stuff he has on his website.
KC: Well, our attention was drawn to that by Henry Deacon as
well, to those tubes, which is fascinating.
JM: Yeah. Right. You know, I always say I’m not the world’s
foremost authority on anything. If there’s any value in my person
and my work, I would say this, that I have been privileged to be
in the company of extraordinary people doing extraordinary
work. I have been privileged to sit in their company and be
accepted by them and be able to learn things behind the scenes
that other people will never be privy to hear.
KC: Isn’t it true, though, that you were told that you have a
mission that is going to come to the fore late in life?
JM: Yeah.
KC: And that you might actually be there now? Do you want to
tell that story at all?
JM: Yeah, I suppose so. I mentioned this, I think, on Coast to
Coast once, but it was very quick because George wants to hear
all the stories as long as it’s within a minute and a half. [laughs]
KC: [laughs] We have longer than that.
JM: Yeah. [laughs] But when I was 19, I ended up in Los
Angeles – at 19 years old with seven bucks in my pocket,
incidentally. I had no idea where I was going, where I was. I
ended up in Los Angeles on a Friday night with seven dollars in
my pocket. You know, I was a stupid kid, but I lived through it.
Later on, a couple months later, after I got a job and things were
working out for me, I was in North Hollywood one morning, on a
weekend morning, and I went into a restaurant. The place was
crowded and there was only one seat available and that was at the
counter, so I sat at the counter. There was a young girl sitting
next to me, so we started talking.
Come to find out she only lived about two blocks from me and I
only lived about two blocks from town, so she had walked
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
downtown and I had also. So we started hanging out together. I’d And he said: Also, one night when you were in bed, you got out of
meet her downtown; we’d hang out together. This was back in bed and you went out on the back porch and you were looking at
’59 and I was 19 years old. the Moon and the Moon was full. Do you remember that?

When we would walk home, I lived two blocks closer, so she had
two blocks farther to go, so I never knew exactly where she lived,
but she knew where I lived. One night she came over to my place
and said: My dad wants to see you. He wants to talk to you.
And of course that put me on alert. I said: I don’t want to talk to
your dad.
And I said: Yes, I remember that.
And he said: And you were picking the wood because it smelled
funny. It was green lumber; it smelled funny, and you were
picking it with your finger. Remember how you picked a piece of
it, and you were smelling it and tasting it? And he said:
Remember doing that?

She said: No, my father is a very important and interesting man. And now I’m really scared because it’s frightening to me and I
He wants to talk to you. He’s got something to tell you. said: Yes.

That sounded interesting, so I went with her, and when we He said: Well, did you do that, or didn’t you?
walked up to the house which was only a couple of blocks away,
we walked up to the house, just by chance, he happened to be I said: Yes, I did.
coming out of the house.
And he said: Well, how would I know that? How would I know
The moment I saw him, an incredible feeling came over me of what you did?
some kind of a euphoric, strange [and] wonderful feeling that I
got, being in his presence. It was as if I were in the presence of a
great prophet or some spiritual man. I felt it, and I loved the
feeling. I mean, I can’t describe it, but I loved the feeling. It was
an other-world feeling. I noticed that he was very much in control
of himself; he knew exactly what he was doing.

He motioned for us to come in. We went in and the girls sat on

the floor by the fireplace. They sat on the floor. He sat on one end
of the sofa, I sat on the other end of the sofa. The wife was in the
kitchen. I never did see her that whole night.

So we were talking and he was, you know, he was asking me

how I liked living in California, and do you have a job and how
do you like your job, and just small talk. And I was beginning to
feel a little of the apprehension was going away. I was beginning
to feel a little bit better being in his company, but I knew there
was something about this guy that wasn’t right, but I loved the
feeling. And I said: I don’t know how you’d know.

I’m 19 years old, so I’m not sure what I’m doing, but I’m just He said: I know because we were there. You just didn’t see us,
talking to this guy who’s dazzling me with his presence of mind but we were there watching you.
and the presence he presented.
And I thought: Well... [laughs]
And so we’re talking about all kinds of things and then, when he
felt that I was sufficiently at ease, he said to me very And he said, because he could tell I was not buying it: Was I
nonchalantly, he said: Remember when you were eight years old correct in what I said?
back in Florida and your father built the new back porch and
your uncle helped him? And remember, your dad used green
Yeah.
lumber that smelled funny? And he built the new back porch?
You remember that?
Well, how would I know if I wasn’t there? He said: We were
there.
Tears started to come to my eyes, and I didn’t want to show tears
in front of my girlfriend, but he was scaring me because he was
right and he knew it. I said: Who was we?

And he said to me: Well, did that happen or didn’t it? He said: That’s not important right now. What’s important for
you to know is that you’re in California, because we brought you
here. We brought you here to Los Angeles.
I said: Yes, that happened.

I said: You brought me here?

383
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
He said: Yeah. Why are you here?
I said: I don’t know why I’m here. I just had to come to Los
Angeles.
He said: That’s right. We brought you here, he said, because
what did you say to God? You talked to God that night. The night
you sat on the porch, you said something to God. What did you
say?
I just sat looking at him.
He said: I’ll tell you what you said. You asked God to let you do
something important with your life. You wanted to do something
of value and importance with your life.
And I was about eight or nine years old, right?
I said: Yes, that’s what I said.
He said: Well, then we’re going to give you an opportunity to do
something with your life now because you did ask.
I’m still amazed, listening to him.
And he said: What we have for you to do will not happen until the
later part of your life, and I’m not going to go into it right now.
He said: I’m not going to go into explaining it to you now;
however, when the time comes for you to do what we have
brought you here to do -- you will know what you have to do. By
that time, you will be sufficiently knowledgeable on who you are
and what you’re doing and where you’re going.
And he said: All you need to know now is that we brought you
here and that we will protect you wherever it is that we put you.
And I asked him, I said: I still don’t understand what you’re
saying.
He said: You don’t need to, but one day, you will understand.
And he said: So I’m here to start you on your journey.
He said: I have a book I’m going to give you and I want you to
read the book and that will begin your journey.
And he pulls it off the shelf and gives it to me, and today you can
still get that book in bookstores anywhere. It’s called The
Complete Works of Charles Fort. [spells name].
Even in England there’s a Fortean Society dedicated to the work
of Charles Fort. A fascinating book. It’s a monumental work,
very thick book: The Complete Works of Charles Fort.
And he opened the book indiscriminately, just put his hand on the
pages, because it’s a very thick book, and he opens a page and he
reads a paragraph. He just opened the page and reads a paragraph
– he knew exactly what he was doing, precisely what he was
doing. I didn’t know because it looked like he just
384
indiscriminately opened it, and he read a paragraph that just blew
me away. I was knocked out by what he’d just read and I thought:
Wow! That’s interesting.
And he said: Oh yeah, the book is filled with that kind of thing.
Let me read you another one.
He opened it up again and just indiscriminately read something.
Not indiscriminately! He knew what he was doing. I’m sure that
he knew how to get your particular attention. What would be very
interesting to you, I may not even see. But he knew how to play
on my emotions, and he read about three little paragraphs, one
after the other, and each one – to me – was absolutely mind-
blowing.
I was fascinated with him, with my new girlfriend, [laughs] and
with this book, and then he said to me: You’ve always been
interested in UFOs and other-worldly things, right?
And I said: Yes, I have.
He said: Would you like to see some UFOs up close tonight?
And I said: I’d love to.
He said: Well come on. I can do that for you.
So I got up with him, and the two girls – my girlfriend and her
sister – the four of us came out in the yard. It was about maybe
midnight in North Hollywood, 1959, and he looks up into the sky
and starts inaudibly talking. His mouth is moving as if he’s
talking to somebody, but you can’t hear him.
And as I’m watching him standing there talking to the stars, I
look over at my girlfriend and she’s looking at me, and the look
on her face was like: Yeah, this is my father, that’s him. Told you
he was strange, didn’t I? [laughs] And that kind of thing.
And her sister was looking at me, and I could tell what she was
doing. She was trying to figure out: How is he taking this? You
know, what’s going on in my mind? [was] what the little one was
thinking, because she’s seen this before. She wants to see how
I’m gonna react to this.
And so then he looks at me and he said: They said that they will
be coming from Griffith Park in just a minute. There’ll be three
of them and they’ll be coming from the Griffith Park area.
They’re going north and they said that they’ll be here in a minute
for you.
And I said: Who’s they?
He said: You’ll see.
Within a couple of minutes, three beautiful disk-shaped things,
glowing, very faintly glowing, came over with no sound
whatsoever, in a triangle formation, came over and stopped right
above our heads and stopped.
And when they did, you could see they were disk-shaped and it
looked and appeared like it was a pie cut in six or eight slices,
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
and each slice was a different color. What I remember distinctly
is each color was like a laser color: vibrant orange, vibrant pink,
very vibrant colors, six or eight colors on each one – and they
were circulating, not so fast as to blend the color, but circulating.
They were beautiful. They were about the size that the full Moon
appears, so they’re not little lights. Full-Moon size. Three.
And I’m standing there looking at these gorgeous, beautiful,
vibrant-color things spinning, and colors, and no sound, and I
was absolutely mesmerized. I was just... I was enthralled by
seeing this gorgeous, beautiful display.
And I looked at him and he’s looking at me and he says: They’re
pretty, aren’t they?
And I said: Yes. They’re beautiful.
And then he looks up and talks to them. He said: They’ve told me
to tell you that they’re going now but they’ll see you later. And
they did. They started moving and they went out north.
Afterwards, we went back in and I said: What did I just see
tonight?
He said: That was us. We’ve been here for a long time, you just
didn’t know it. He said: We picked you a long time ago when you
were a small child. We have something for you to do.
And I said: I’m not understanding exactly.
He said: You don’t have to. We will let you know what it is you’re
supposed to do later on in life, but just go on with your life, don’t
worry about it. Whatever you’re supposed to learn, we’ll see to it
that you learn, and when it is time for you do what we have for
you to do, you’ll know. We’ll let you know.
After that, I would go over there on the weekends to visit him and
the mother and the two girls, and we would go out to the desert
sometimes, go way out in the desert. The girls, with their mother,
would go for a walk, and he and I would walk in the desert, and
he would tell me about all the different alien lifeforms that are
out there, where they have come from, the ones that are here.
And he told me: You have enemies here. You have some very
powerful enemies here from other places that have come, and
they know who you are, and they know what you’re going to do.
So just be careful in your life, but we’ll protect you.
I didn’t know what he was talking about.
And then one day I went over to the house one morning, and the
house was totally open, and they’re gone. Everything was packed
and gone and the girl never told me she was leaving. They’d
never come to tell me anything. They were just gone.
Now that I look back on that experience, I feel very secure in
saying that he knew what he was doing. He said: I’m starting you
on your journey, and he did. But after that was done, then he
moves on.
385
KC: Do you believe that you’re at that place, that juncture where
he was talking about: You’re going to know...? Has another
message come recently, or do you feel that you’re right on the
cusp of something?
JM: I feel along the beginning of something and I’m still not sure
what all of this means. I’m not sure what it means. All I know is
that I have some valuable stuff that’s going to really knock
people out when they see it, but I don’t understand it fully yet.
I’ve talked with Zecharia about it. I’ve talked with many other
speakers and people that are in the speaking circuit that are
knowledgeable on the subject.
But my gut feeling... and incidentally, gut, G-U-T, is simply God
in Scandinavian. GOD is English, dog spelled backwards. But
God in, I think it’s Sweden and Scandinavian countries, is spelled
G-U-T. So when you say you’ve got a gut feeling, that’s God in
Scandinavian.
But my gut feeling is that I don’t know the full picture yet, but
I’m getting there now. After 48 years, I now know that my 48
years of study, day in and day out, researching, reading, studying
in libraries, was for a reason, so that when the time would come, I
would at least be sufficiently educated in this dark subject which
I’m talking about. At least I’ve got some background in it now, to
be able to understand the significance of it.
And I think it’s really frightening to me. It actually is still rather
frightening because, being human, and watching the world,
where it’s going... and I already know the symbols, the words
[and] the terms. I already know the history of the secret societies
and the movements of the bankers.
I‘ve sat and talked with all kinds of people around the world;
with Hakim, my dear friend Hakim, the Hammite priest in Egypt
-- we’ve sat out by the Pyramids at night and talked about the
ancient Hammite priesthood, and I was blessed in the Pyramid.
Hakim blessed me in the King’s Chamber; I laid in the
sarcophagus and he did a whole prayer ritual over me. I’ve sat,
like I said, for hours and talked with him in private about things
that have happened to me.
So I am totally convinced that there’s nothing special about me,
but I have been given the opportunity to be in the company of
fascinating people, to learn monstrously fascinating things, and
ultimately, I think that there is something for me to do. I’m just
not sure yet what it is.
KC: Do you happen to have an idea what race this man was
from? Do you have a planet? Do you have any idea? In other
words, do you think he was Annunaki, do you think he was
Nordic, do you think he was Pleiadian? Do you have any idea?
JM: No, not really, because he appeared to be an extraordinarily
ordinary-looking guy, just an ordinary guy you would meet. But
when I was in his presence, it was monstrous -- the feeling. I
knew: This is not a normal man.
KC: Did his children have a different aura or a different feeling
about them?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
JM: No. No. They seemed to be very ordinary, and the mother.
KC: But didn’t you tell me just recently, and correct me if I’m
wrong, but I think you were out in the desert and you had
something happen out there.
JM: Oh! Yeah!
KC: Very recently.
JM: Oh yeah. No no, that’s a different story.
KC: Well, is it completely different? Is it possible that there was
some kind of...?
JM: Well... No, you’re right. You’re right. There could very well
be some kind of a connection with what happened to me just a
few years ago and that original incident back in 1959. Yes, very
possible.
That was another extraordinary experience. I’ve had 36, what I
call peak experiences. I mean monstrous experiences. That was
merely one. But yes, I’ve had some very interesting and
emotionally-drenching experiences out on the deserts of Nevada.
One thing I will tell you, which is just my opinion: I am totally
convinced for myself that at Area 51, that base we call Area 51,
there is no doubt in my mind that there are extraterrestrial life
forms there. No doubt in my mind about it at all, because of what
I’ve personally seen and experienced when I was at Rachel’s.
I’ve had too many strange things happen to me that were other-
worldly, in-your-face, like one-on-one.
And so there’s no doubt in my mind that what I experienced out
there... We had an alien come in the mobile home. My friend,
Paul Tice, and my lady friend from Hawaii, Ivy -- all three of us,
an alien came in the bedroom. So there’s no doubt in my mind
there’s something really off the wall going on out there at Area
51 that we are not aware of. But I’ve had many otherworld
experiences out there, not just...
You know, I can’t stand it when people say that this is all high
technology of our government. No. I don’t buy that for a minute.
What I’ve seen with my own eyes, I don’t buy it for a minute. If
it has anything to do with our government, then what I have
actually witnessed with my own eyes, if it has to do with the U.S.
government, then it means that the U.S. government is in league
with extraterrestrials, because what I saw is extraterrestrial in
origin. And what I’ve experienced... KC: Thank you for that.
That’s very, very valuable to hear you say that.
Can you talk about the possibility of what these humans that are
being created, what their destiny might be? In other words, you
say they might not have feelings, etcetera, etcetera. And do you
feel that perhaps this is working in with your, sort of, destiny that
they were talking about?
Because these subjects we’re talking about right here and now... I
actually went to Egypt with you and William Henry and that
group. I did have a short interview with you at that time. You
weren’t willing to talk about that then. I think that now you’re
much more willing. This message that you have seems to be
386
culminating in what you’re saying, in this symbol that we talked
about in the beginning of this interview. Is it possible that this is
going to be the message: the unfolding of what you know?
JM: My feeling is that the reason why I’m here doing what I’m
doing is because of this mutation which is being foisted on the
human race, it’s being forced on the human race. This change
that the Masters of the Universe, so to speak, have in mind for the
human race is being foisted on us.
And I believe – again, just my opinion – that that’s my part in
this cosmic scheme or this cosmic play, is to call people back to
their humanity and let them know: You’re being led down the
garden path into something you don’t know what’s coming. You
had better get back to your roots of being human and start
reestablishing your humanity – because the human race is losing
its humanity.
The way we were designed by the original creators was a
beautiful thing. I mean, when you look at children and little
animals, you have to know that whoever designed us designed
humans and lifeforms to be beautiful, to be charming, to be a
beautiful thing, to live in a beautiful world with children and
gorgeous and beautiful things which uplift the spirit.
But I am totally convinced that there is now on the Earth, again
for lack of a better term, alien presence which are the enemies of
the human race, and they are obviously enemies of whoever the
original creators of us, because of the things I’ve been told – that
the people or the entities who created us, the gods who created
us, have enemies out there in the universe.
They have come here to see what these gods are doing, what
these aliens are doing. And they’re coming here saying: Mm. I
see what they’re doing. They’re creating these creatures. Why
don’t we move in? – like a gang. Why don’t we move in and take
over and take this beautiful creation that these gods have created
and mutate it into what we want? And so, to mutate the whole
human race away from their natural evolution of society and
humanity into a whole new kind of civilization.
I think that that’s probably what I’m here to do, is to call
attention to the world that you’re being misled by some
extraordinarily powerful, occult, mystical, other-world
technology that is changing the evolution of the human race from
what it was supposed to be in its creation, as opposed to where
the dark powers of the world are now leading the human race into
a different world. And what they have in mind for us, you don’t
want to know.
KC: Okay.
JM: The people who are in power today in this country and
around the world have something in mind that you have no idea
in the world how bad it’s really going to be, because there will be
no longer any place for freedom, intellectual freedom, spiritual
freedom, liberty, justice – none of that. It’s gone.
KC: Okay. But you are protected and you’ve been told this over
and over again, and this person that you met way back who sort
of started you on your journey was also part of a race that has
been visiting here and is looking out for you, in essence. You’ve
told at least me some personal stories in which you were
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
protected – there was reasons you were told to leave a room at a I thought: Well... I mean, I’m still here, I’m still alive, [Kerry
certain opportune moment, and so on and so forth. laughs] so I know that I have been protected. I know that.

JM: That’s right. And I have had that happen to me over and over
and over again.
KC: Right. So that means there’s a force for good...
JM: Profoundly dangerous things happening and at the moment I
just did not know, walked out and some terrible, dangerous thing
happened, and I never even heard about it.
KC: So there seems to be a force for good, some “White Hats”
behind the scenes...
JM: Yes.
KC: ...some of whom have actually talked to you face to face,
protected you. One that passed on recently comes to mind.
JM: Right.
KC: Absolutely.
DW: Where would the truth movement be without you?
Specifically, Zeitgeist is a movie that was in the top five most-
viewed on Google Video for like a year at least and I would like
the Project Camelot viewers to be apprised of the situation in
regards to your involvement with Zeitgeist because it seems like
Management, as I call them, put you in a position in which the
whole conspiracy theory movement wouldn’t be anywhere near
what it is now if it wasn’t for your influence.
JM: Yes, Zeitgeist is a two-hour movie made by a guy named
Peter Joseph in New York. I didn’t know anything about it, but
Peter Joseph produced a two-hour video and the last that we
heard... because on Zeitgeist it was one of the first times Google
pulled the counter off of something that’s on Google Video?
Usually it would have a counter, how many people have seen this
video. They pulled the counter. They pulled it, I think it was at 28
million when they pulled it and that was like a year-and-a-half
ago.

KC: These people who might have been working behind the
scenes, even in places that, you know, made them appear to be
working for the dark side, if you will.

JM: Yeah, the establishment. But in point of fact, they were

extremely powerful people and very high placed.

KC: Working for the light.

JM: Working for the light. And they told me: We know what
you’re doing. One of them told me: You have some very powerful
friends that you don’t even know exist, and they’re protecting
you.

I know. I have had the... I’m not going to get into the details, but I
have actually witnessed protection from the highest sources in
this country step into something that was very, very serious
happening in relation to me, and I was really frightened, because
I knew the implications of what’s happening and they could be KC: And that’s based all on your work, isn’t it?
very serious for me. I “may not be around much longer,” I’ve
heard from the top. JM: All of it was based on my work. Jeff Rense had Peter
Joseph... and you can go to my website,
And then all of a sudden I get a communication from
Washington, D.C., from the highest office there, saying: Don’t www.Jordanmaxwell.com ,
worry about it, we took care of it. Just go on and don’t worry
about it. And I was amazed – from Washington, D.C.! Somebody
and go to the audio/video page. One of the first entries is a big
that high up calls me and says: Don’t worry about it. Just go on
banner saying Zeitgeist Interview, and it’s only about five
about your life. No one’s gonna bother you. And they didn’t.
minutes long.

I’ve had this happen many, many times when something very
But Jeff Rense interviewed Peter Joseph about Zeitgeist and
serious... very serious threats against my life and against my
talked about how, you know, they pulled the counter a year-and-
work. I get a phone call or someone will walk up to me in a
a-half ago at 28 million and it’s probably more than 50 million
public place and say: Jordan, that thing that you’ve been worried
now.
about the last two weeks?

But he said: Why did you make this video?

Yeah.

We took care of it. Move on. Don’t worry about it.

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 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And he [Peter Joseph] said: Because the whole thing was Jordan
Maxwell’s work. I was listening to him; I’ve been following his
work and I just decided since he hasn’t done anything, I will.
So he put all of my work together on religion, ancient theology,
the Federal Reserve, banking, and 9/11 and all that nonsense, and
put it all together into a two-hour video called Zeitgeist, which I
am told by people...
My friends in Hollywood (and I’ve lived in Hollywood for 48
years) my friends have said that if they had 28 million and they
pulled it off a year ago; probably seen by 50 million – that’s a
very good showing in Hollywood! If you can get 50 million
people watching something that represents you, that’s pretty
heady stuff in Hollywood.
KC: Absolutely.
JM: I didn’t do it. I didn’t even know anything about it. But since
then, there have been about six other professionally-presented
videos done on me that I had no idea. People would call and tell
me: There’s an hour show on you in England; there’s an hour
show on you in France.
Germany actually came over -- the National German Network --
came over, and did an hour program on me, and they had Arnold
Schwarzenegger in it, and the whole thing was in German. [Kerry
laughs] I still have a copy of it they sent me. It was done in
German on me.
KC: I understand. Now, I don’t know if you’re willing to talk
about this, but Zecharia Sitchin and you sat down and you asked
him to tell you a secret. Based on all your time with him, the
things that you had done for him, etcetera, etcetera, you basically
said: Tell me something that I don’t know.
JM: Yeah.
KC: Are you willing to talk about that?
JM: No.
KC: Because I think that that is a clue that people would really
benefit from knowing.
JM: Yeah. I don’t think I want to talk about that.
KC: Okay.
JM: Because...
KC: Do you feel that Zecharia would not like that information
out there?
JM: No. It was that it was a private conversation and when I
asked him... Because, like I said, at one time I was in business
with Zecharia. I had a contract with him, and so we were business
partners, and so I felt a little bit more of a leeway to talk with
Zecharia in private. So I asked him one time some very personal
questions about his work and it was absolutely mind-blowing and
staggering, the things he was telling me.
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And then... Well anyway, then he told me some things about
myself and I was amazed. I never heard such a thing, that what he
was being told, or wherever he got it from, he had a view on me,
who I am and what I’m doing. But at that time we were talking, it
was a private conversation, and I think it’d be better just left
private.
KC: Okay. Fine.
JM: All I will say is this: Zecharia Sitchin is a fascinating man
and a brilliant writer, and I love everything he’s doing, and I love
the man. He’s a very dear friend and I love Zecharia Sitchin. He’s
a very, very gentleman kind of guy, and so... I like that.
KC: Okay. Would you classify what you’ve been talking about,
in a sense, as a “war” that is going on, on a spiritual level?
JM: Yes. No doubt about it.
KC: For the hearts and minds of humanity?
JM: Yes. Absolutely. There is a spiritual war going on right now
and Hollywood’s making movies about it – War of the Worlds,
Steven Spielberg. I’ve said so many times that Steven Spielberg
and George Lucas are many things, but stupid is not one of them.
[laughs]
Steven Spielberg is trying to tell you something. In one of his
interviews a few years back, I remember he said that he does
not... Steven Spielberg said: I don’t make movies to entertain,
necessarily; I make movies to comment on important issues of the
day.
And looking at Spielberg’s work, which is genius... something I
want to say about Spielberg: I’ve watched a lot of productions
and I’ve been in Hollywood for a long time, 48 years I’ve lived in
North Hollywood and Hollywood, and I have many, many, many
friends in the industry. I already know, because I’ve been told,
that virtually all the major names in Hollywood know who I am –
and they should – I’ve been talking for 48 years! [laughs] And
they’re using all my stuff now, so they should know me.
But Steven Spielberg is one of the most clever people I have ever
watched a person’s work, because he puts... a couple of things.
One is: he’s a stickler for accuracy on costumes and terms that
are used, so anytime you see anything that Spielberg has made,
it’s very accurate – the clothing that would have been worn in
those days, the way the people would have talked, it’s very
accurately done. So he’s a stickler for accuracy.
But the thing I really appreciate about Steven Spielberg is he puts
little things, little small things that you would never see if you’re
not looking for it, that are really a mind-blower, a Wow. Back
that up, and that one scene with that one person, what they said...
he’s a master at doing that. He’s a master at putting powerful
things in some little insignificant scene, so if you’re not
watching, you’ll never get to see the real genius of Steven
Spielberg. I love watching his movies because I know what I’m
looking for.
KC: So he’s using symbolism.
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JM: Oh yeah!
KC: All over his movies.
JM: Everywhere! And George Lucas, equal. George Lucas is
brilliant, in my opinion. He said he was heavily influenced by
Joseph Campbell, the famous...
KC: Yes.
JM: And Joseph Campbell was an incredibly dear man. I just
loved listening to Joseph Campbell explain mythologies and all
the symbols of the ancient people.
KC: Did you know him?
JM: No, I never had a chance to meet Joseph Campbell.
KC: What about Arthur C. Clarke? Did you meet him?
JM: No, I never had a chance to meet Arthur C. Clarke either, but
I would love to have. I’ve had opportunities to be in the company
of people like that, but I was not in a position to travel, I didn’t
have the money, I was in a depressed state of mind, and so I let
some very important people go by that I could have been with.
I used to be on the board of directors of an organization in
Hollywood – this was quite a few years ago – called USofA.
USofA was United Sensitives of America. This organization was
founded in Burbank and I came in at a very early period and I
ended up being on the board of directors of USofA. I really didn’t
take a whole lot of charge in it. The man who started it pretty
much ran it, but in words, I was on the board of directors.
But anyway, it was an organization where numerologists,
astrologers, all kinds of esoteric disciplines would come together
and we would put on shows, expos, and also once a year we
would put on an award show where we would honor certain
movie stars for their work feeding the poor or whatever.
KC: But weren’t you also involved in maybe discovering murder
suspects?
JM: Oh yeah.
KC: And also occult happenings that were going on.
JM: Every two weeks, I think it was like every two weeks, we
would meet about 9:00 in the evening up in the Hollywood Hills
from the Hollywood sign. We would be up there, and there’d be
about 50 people up there in this big, huge home that was owned
by a movie star who had passed away. It was a huge, big home
and the front room was just enormous in size and there would be
like 50 people there every two weeks. There would be a group of
astrologers, a group of psychics, a group of numerologists, this
group and that group, and they were all different disciplines in
the esoteric sciences.
And we would have the Police Department or the Sheriff’s
Department – usually it was LAPD would come up, sheriff a
couple of times too – and they would come up. We had a big
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blackboard and they would have pictures up on the wall of the
case that they wanted us to talk about. They would show us the
person who was kidnapped, or the body that was found, or
whatever the case was, and then the officer in charge, usually a
detective, would write down or have it already written down, all
the pertinent information that the Police Department had and
each group sat with a group. All the astrologers sat together...
KC: I do want to ask you which group were you among? Were
you psychic?
JM: No. I was with the people who were putting it on. It was all
being sponsored by the USofA, United Sensitives of America,
and since I was on the board, I was there representing the
company that’s putting this thing together.
Like I said, we also would have award ceremonies once a year in
which we would give awards to different people who were doing
different things for humanity. I was privileged to be able to be
there to give Manly Palmer Hall an award for his work in service
to the world.
Manly Palmer Hall, I believe, was one of the finest and most
dearest men I have ever met in my life. He was not only
charming, an extraordinarily brilliant mind, but he was one of the
most decent and beautiful people that I have ever, personally,
have ever met.
Manly Palmer Hall was an extraordinary teacher. He never
promoted anything. He merely educated people, as: This is where
this came from; this is where that came from; this is what that
word means. So he was an educator. People have called him all
kinds of names because he was a Mason. I knew him personally.
I’ve been to his home. When he died, he left me a beautiful gift –
all of his research journals, he left to me.
KC: That’s amazing.
JM: I was shocked when I got a phone call from the
Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles and Obadiah
Harris, the president at that time, said: Mr. Hall wanted you to
have something when he passed away.
And I said: What is it? I was in San Diego.
And he said: I’m not going to tell you. Just come pick it up. So I
drove up that day to Los Angeles from San Diego and it was all
of the research journals of Manly Palmer Hall, he gave to me.
And I consider that to be a monumental gift from a very powerful
man.
KC: Did you find some clues there to follow out? [laughs]
JM: Tons of stuff there.
KC: Okay.
JM: Manly Palmer Hall, as I said, was one of the greatest
teachers the world has ever known. In my humble opinion, I
don’t think there’s ever been in any era of time a man to come
close to what Manly Palmer Hall was able to do. Anyone who
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has an open mind – and of course, your mind is like a parachute:
it doesn’t work if it’s not open – anyone who is intellectually
honest, which you don’t find very much -- intellectually honest
with an open mind, mature and intelligent person looking at the
work of Manly Palmer Hall would have to say this is one of the
greatest men that ever lived.
I don’t know how many... maybe 70 or 80 books on esoteric
subjects of the whole world; over 46 sets of lectures, like six 90-
minute audio lectures of 46 esoteric subjects of the world.
KC: Wonderful.
JM: Incredible. Plus thousands of lectures. Incidentally, I have
everything he ever did. Every lecture he ever did I have,
digitized. Monumental work. But he was a personal friend of
mine and I loved him dearly. I’m saying this because there are so
many people who put him down because he was a Mason. He
was a wonderful teacher, a brilliant man, to which his detractors
could not even hold a candle.
KC: I hear you.
JM: And he’s not the only one. I have other people I feel the
same way about.
KC: Okay. How do you feel, just to change gears here a little bit,
about the current administration of Obama?
JM: [sighs] Well, I’m not political as such. Personally – I think I
ought to choose my words carefully here – because I like Obama
as a person, and he’s very personable; he’s the kind of guy I
would love to sit and chat with. His children are beautiful, his
wife is a very intelligent lady. And so I don’t have anything
against Obama or his family. I think they’re very personable and
very interesting people.
But it’s the powers behind him, that he represents, that’s
frightening to me. I know things about the people who are behind
him that is absolutely staggering, frightening. I live in fear of
what’s coming, because of what I know – not because of what I
believe or think – because of what I know.
KC: Are you talking about war? Are you talking about an agenda
that involves war? World War Three?
JM: Well, that’s always possible. Let me go back and say this.
Again, I have nothing against Obama as a person and I like him.
The family, nothing against them at all. But the symbol that I was
telling you about, that I’ve been working on... Did you ever see
the movie or the television show V?
KC: Oh, absolutely.
JM: The very first one?
KC: Yes.
JM: Well, ABC is now remaking V. They’re remaking it. And I
was shocked – someone sent me an email. I think they were in
Hollywood, and they sent me an email with a picture from the
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new movie coming out soon. I think it’s going to come out in the
next month or so, a made-for-television movie by ABC.
KC: Oh, really? Okay. Fabulous.
JM: Disney / ABC.
KC: Very interesting.
JM: Okay?
KC: Okay. Yeah?
JM: And it’s going to be called V and it’s a remake of the
original.
KC: Okay.
JM: But in it, the extraterrestrials who are referred to as the
Visitors? The Visitors in the new one are giving to the public a
pamphlet explaining their (quote) “New World Order” that they
are bringing to planet?
KC: Right.
JM: And the picture, which I have, shocked me. My knees got
weak and I had to sit down. It was shocking. It was the Visitors,
the alien visitors who looked like humans, were handing out
pamphlets to the people about their New Order that they were
going to bring in and the title of the pamphlet was: The Dawn of
a New Day -- the very words that I have been researching for
some 40 years is now going to be in the movie, the new V.
KC: Okay.
JM: And I’m telling you, that is not only significant, it’s mind-
blowing when I give you the whole story. [Kerry laughs] ABC
and Disney are telling you something about this symbol that I’ve
been looking at for a long time and it’s going to be right in your
face. Because I’m telling you, that symbol is going to become the
most important symbol around the globe, for the first time in the
public view.
Anytime you want to do research on the hidden stuff like I’ve
done, it’s everywhere. But no, now because of Obama, now the
secret societies of the – what I think are extraterrestrial masters of
this world – are going to bring this symbol out into the world, so
everyone can see it.
And eventually what’s going to happen is that the whole human
race is going to wake up. And this is my opinion about 2012 –
my opinion of 2012 is there’s going to be an awakening for the
whole world: We’ve been had! They’re going to see this is an
ancient thing that’s been coming for a long time and we never
saw it, we didn’t understand it.
But when my video comes out that I want to do – it’s going to be
like a three-hour step-by-step on Obama’s symbol, Jimmy Carter,
all the Presidents, the Bushes, the entire superstructure of
Western Civilization, and what this stuff really means, and where
it is really comes from.
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I think, and I’m not trying to aggrandize myself, but I really
believe that it’s going to cause quite a sensation when people see
what I really am, that I’ve never told anyone before.
And when I see Obama using the same terms, the same symbol,
the same one that the Communists used, the Nazis have used, the
fascists have used, the secret societies around the world of
Freemasonry have used; the Babylonians; as I said, all the ancient
Egyptians – they all used the same word, term, and symbol.
And now ABC is coming out, Disney / ABC is coming out with a
new remake of V and in it, the extraterrestrials that look like
humans, who are bringing a (quote) “New Order” to the world,
and the pamphlet in the movie is called Dawn of a New Day!
I said: WOW. I cannot believe how overwhelmingly obvious this
secret symbol is now becoming, and that’s why I will do this
video on it.
KC: But were you told more about the movie? More about where
they’re going with it, in other words? I’m assuming you haven’t
seen it yet.
JM: No, I haven’t seen it yet, but I watched the other one so
many times. And the “other ones”, if you remember the original,
the Visitors, they were wonderful people. They were very
gracious and charming. And then remember the lady who was in
charge of the visitors, she was the highest ranking, she went into
a room and pulled off her face – it was a reptile alien?
KC: Yes.
JM: I personally, I brought David Icke to America. He was in
America because I brought him here, personally.
KC: Yes.
JM: And so I’m saying that I am totally convinced beyond a
shadow of a doubt, for myself, that there are such things as reptile
aliens, though I have never seen one, thank God. But I totally
believe they are here. Not because of David Icke, not because of
Credo Mutwa, who I love listening to, a wonderful, fascinating
man. David Icke has done great stuff. But I believe there are
reptile aliens here, because of my own personal research.
I have been in the company of at least eight people over the past
many years, eight different people... each one is extraordinarily
well-grounded, people. Airline pilot, one, with a major airline.
A very wealthy man in Las Vegas who buys and sells
commercial hotels and buildings, etcetera – extremely wealthy
man – Christian, incidentally, very Christian man, but very, very
wealthy and very highly intelligent man sat down and told me
about his personal one-on-one with a reptile alien in which many
others in his church were privy to see. That’s a whole story in
itself that happened in Colorado. And then to have scientists...
And a young lady who was one of my favorite people in the
world, a young lady called Nancy, who just blew me away. On
my radio show – I used to have a show; I’ve had seven different
radio shows in my life. I’d like to get back on radio and do my
own show again. But I had a show on KPFK here in Los Angeles,
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FM station, and one night I had Nancy on and Nancy just blew
the audience away. She is so feminine, so incredibly charming
and feminine girl, talking about stuff that will blow your mind.
KC: [laughs]
JM: Her father was in the Air Force. Her family was Air Force,
but her father was in charge of Project Retrievables for the Air
Force – the man who was in charge of going out wherever in the
world [there was] any extraterrestrial activity. He was in charge
in the Air Force to go there first, and he was the boss, and she
said the modus operandi was always the same. I’ll have to make
you a copy of her two... I’ve got two two-hour interviews that
will just knock you out.
KC: I’d love to hear.
JM: You could tell this is a very charming girl, but telling you
stuff that you’re going to have to sit down to deal with. [laughs]
She said wherever they would go; she always lived on military
bases. And she said always the method was the same... there was
one phone in the house for the family, and then there was another
phone, which no one ever touched; you never used it.
When that phone would ring, no matter when -- two in the
morning, three in the morning -- it doesn’t matter; if that phone
rang, her father had ten minutes to be fully dressed with his
briefcase, and ready to go. In ten minutes a car would pull up and
nothing was said -- no voices, nothing was said. A knock on the
door, he would walk out; he would have military escort into the
car, get in the car, and drive off, and nothing said. Nobody knows
where he’s gone, and nobody needs to know.
And so she said that many a night, they would get that phone
ring, he would get up, dress, briefcase ready to go, and they
would take him somewhere in the world where something has
just happened and the Air Force was sending him to see what just
happened and they’re in charge.
And she would tell me the things that her father, and especially
her mother... She said the father would never tell her anything
when she was a child, but the mother would tell her later on in
life.
She told me an experience that just blew my mind about a reptile
alien. You really have to hear it from her, but basically the story
is so fascinating [that] I‘ve got to tell you it.
She said: her father would never allow her to be left alone in the
house, ever. When he would go off during the day... they live on
base... it doesn’t matter. When he would leave the house,
immediately military would come and guard all four corners of
the property. They would sit there in cars and guard while he’s
gone anywhere. If he went to the market or whatever, they would
be guarding the house, and he would never allow her to stay at
home by herself.
And so she said one night – you’ll hear this interview – she said
one night... it wasn’t on base, they were here in Los Angeles
somewhere...
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And she said that her mom and dad were going next door to a
party next door, and she asked her dad if she could stay. She was
like thirteen, fourteen years old.
And he said: No. Absolutely not.
So she talked to her mother and the mother talked to the father
and got him to agree that she could stay home.
And she said: so for the first time in her life, she was actually
going to be alone in the house by herself.
So she said: she was in a bedroom combing her hair and she had
a mirror that she could see her closet and the closet had French
doors.
She said: they were closed, partially closed, and it wasn’t too
well lit in the room.
She said: she was combing her hair, looking at the closet door,
and all of a sudden, the closet door opened up and a reptile alien
stepped out.
She said: he had to bend down to get under the header and he
stood up.
She said: it was a full-grown man, extremely muscular, but it was
a reptile body, reptile alien head.
And she said: This thing looked at me and I’m looking at it in the
mirror.
And she said: He started moving toward me without moving his
legs – he was just floating toward her, slowly.
And she said: I felt like it was like coming up on a fly, you know,
grab it quick.
She says: she jumped up and screamed and ran down the
hallway, ran into the bathroom, locked the door, opened the
window and started screaming.
Of course, everybody in the neighborhood heard.
And she said: this reptile alien came down the hallway.
And she said: I could feel him walking, because he was so heavy
and he was scraping on the door, growling like a dinosaur growl,
scraping on the door. She said: that when her father and the
neighbors come running up, they opened the door. When they
came running up, they were yelling outside, this reptile alien ran
back down the hallway into her bedroom and disappeared.
She said: when her father came in, the bathroom door was just
ripped, and obviously, the father said he was not going to hurt
her, but it was a message.
And he said: That’s why I never wanted her to stay alone,
because these aliens have told us, the Air Force, that “You keep
poking your nose into our business. Every time something
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happens you come out and poke your nose. So we just want you
to know, the next time something happens and you poke your
nose into our business, while you’re out here poking your nose in
our business, some of us are going to come visit your daughter,
so you need to stay home and stay out of our business.”
So he said that’s why they always had military around any time
he left.
And so when she was telling me this story about other reptile
aliens... and of course, I’ve heard it from so many legitimately-
important people, I have to believe that there is something to this
story. I have personally not seen one, but I don’t want to. [Kerry
laughs]
But I’ve seen enough to know that there are lifeforms on this
Earth, which are not from here. I’ve already seen too much to
know that. My experiences have been extraordinary. As I said, 36
major experiences I’ve had in my life, where I’ve dealt with
other-world phenomena.
KC: Okay. Well, this is a really amazing interview. Can you talk
at all about anything else that you think that people should know
in terms of the overall picture that you’ve been giving them here?
JM: I would say: Be aware that there is a war for your soul.
There is a war for the spiritual. You know, there’s always been
this question for thousand of years, all the great philosophers ask
it, about whether we are physical bodies which have a spirit in it,
or are we originally a spirit which has taken on a physical body?
You know, which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
But, I am convinced that no matter how it happens -- if we were
physical and took on a spirit, or maybe we were spirit and took
on a physical body, I believe that there is a war going on from
somebody out there that was an original enemy of whoever
created us. So whoever created us has enemies out there in the
universe and that are diabolical enemies.
And we know this is true in government, you know. You may see
the President and the First Lady and all of that. It’s very
prominent and proper, but they have enemies, powerful enemies.
That’s why they have to be totally surrounded by military and
protection because they have serious enemies. Something
happened to me that tells me that there’s something going on like
that. I was in Hawaii many years ago. My wife and some friends,
we went to Hawaii for the first time. I was sitting in a restaurant
across the street from the Hilton Village.
In the restaurant – which is a main drag, a main strip – I was
sitting with my back to the door. Someone came in and I
immediately had an electrical charge go through my body. It’s
bad enough being shocked by a wall plug, but if you don’t know
it’s coming, it’s even worse.
I was sitting at the table talking, and all of a sudden, somebody
came in and an electrical shock went through me and I knocked
stuff on the table, I knocked water and stuff on the table and I
jumped up, involuntarily.
I just jumped up and something told me: Run quick, you’re in
trouble! You’re going to die. Run quick!
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I ran out the back door of the restaurant... ran across the
restaurant -- left my wife and my friends -- ran across the
restaurant, ran out the back door.
And the voice said: Run quick, you’re in trouble! Go across the
street to the hotel.
And I screamed, I remember yelling: I can’t go across the street,
there’s traffic out there.
And it said: Run! There will be no traffic. Run!
And so I ran out into the street, involuntarily. I was not making a
conscious decision to do any of this, it was being foisted on me. I
ran across the street and as it so happened, there was no traffic for
that little stretch.
I ran out and it said: Go out around the hotel.
The voice was saying: Run quick to the hotel.
And I ran around the hotel and it said: All right, you’re safe now.
Now you’re safe.
And I sat down, my heart was pounding, and I kept thinking:
What did I just do? And how am I going to explain this to my wife
and my friends, what I just did involuntarily? I don’t know what
happened.
That happened to me twice.
The second time was a few months later in Los Angeles. I was on
the corner of Fairfax and Wilshire Boulevard in a little coffee
shop called Johnnie’s Hamburger Stand. It’s a little restaurant. I
was sitting at the counter and I noticed – peripheral vision, I
didn’t look over to see them, but peripheral vision -- I saw two
guys walk in, and as they walked in, immediately an electrical
shock hit me. I almost fell off... I was at the counter.
And the voice said: Get out quick! You’re in trouble. Run!
And I so I grabbed a bunch of money, threw it on the counter and
tripped trying to get out of the chair on the counter. I got up and I
hit the side door and I ran north on Fairfax.
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And the voice kept saying: Run! Your life is in danger. Run
quick!
I ran about two or three blocks until I was just about out of breath
and then the voice said: All right. You’re safe now. You’re safe
now. Sit down.
And I sat down; my heart was pounding again. And it was
involuntary... I didn’t make a conscious choice to run, I just
started running and the voice was talking. It was yelling to me. It
was actually like a yell: MOVE QUICK! YOUR LIFE IS IN
DANGER!
So that happened twice to me. I have no idea what that all means.
I’m just telling you what happened.
KC: Okay. So you are positing the fact that there is this symbol
that in the symbol is basically telling the world of a New World
Order and the return, or basically, a Son [and/or Sun] taking
control, and that this is happening sometime in the near future.
JM: Yeah.
KC: And I’m assuming you think around 2012. Is that correct?
JM: Yeah. That’s what I think.
KC: Okay. And then you’re talking also about, really, reptilians
and an agenda which is not quite clear but there is something
going on with that.
JM: That’s right.
KC: So what I’m now asking you is whether or not that so-called
king is reptilian.
JM: Well, I don’t know and what I would say to an audience
that’s watching this... I’ve said it too many times before, but I
think it bears saying again: I’m not the world’s foremost
authority on anything. I’m just telling you what I have seen with
my own eyes, what has happened to me in my life.
But I would also say to anyone who would scoff at this, just look
at what I have to offer first before you make a decision if I’m
crazy or not. See what I have amassed in the past 40 years that I
haven’t told you, that you don’t know that I have, and see the
research that I have done on this subject of this New Order of the
world which I started talking about back in 1960.
I was sending letters to Belmont, Massachusetts back in 1960,
Belmont Massachusetts. I was sending letters to the John Birch
Society who had just been formed in 1959. The John Birch
Society was, of course, exposing all the Communist activity in
the world, especially in America.
I was already well into all of that in ’59 when they started, and so
I started sending them articles, things like: Well, you need to look
at this symbol and this word and this term here and also you
might want to look at this guy and this organization. So I was
sending them little tidbits of information back in 1960 on the
subject of Illuminati... on secret societies, not Illuminati.
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Because the Illuminati, I found out about, like I said, in 1967
when Anthony Hilder produced the series of records, of three 33-
1/3 record albums called Illuminati. . [“The Illuminati and the
Council on Foreign Relations”] The man speaking was an
incredibly interesting man named Myron Fagan and I don’t know
if you’ve ever heard Myron Fagan, The Illuminati record. It will
knock you out, absolutely. Today, it’s still a knockout when I
hear it today
KC: Wow.
JM: I heard it 40 years ago. When I hear it today, it’s still a mind-
blower.
KC: I have a question for you that is a little bit moving on to
another topic. It has to do with the illuminati, but I wonder if you
would address it. What is the significance of merging the red and
the black?
JM: Oh, that’s interesting. It’s called – red and black and white,
all three: red, black, and white – are referred to in Hollywood as
Death’s Head colors, because Death’s Head comes from a Nazi
organization called the SS, the Gestapo. Gestapo was referred to
as the Order of the Death’s Head, and the Order of the Death’s
Head, Gestapo of Nazi Germany symbol was the skull and
crossbones – Skull and Bones. That was their symbol.
But to the Germans on the inside, the Gestapo was called the
Order of Death’s Head and Death’s Head’s colors in
Hollywood...
I attended a lecture many years ago by a black doctor who
worked at Martin Luther King Hospital and some of my friends
in the motion picture industry, black entertainers, called me and
said: You really need to be here tonight. You need to come and
hear this. It’s going to be a private lecture by a doctor from
Chicago who came out here. It was an actual doctor working at
Martin Luther King Hospital and he was giving a lecture on
Death’s Head colors.
It was fascinating. It was a slide presentation at a library, in Santa
Monica library, in a private invitation only. There was only about
25 to 30 people there. And he was explaining the Death’s Head
colors, why it’s black, white, and red, and how black, white, and
red are used in motion pictures. When someone is going to die or
someone’s going to be killed, those are the three prominent
colors that will always be in those scenes. They’re called Death’s
Head colors. They symbolize the darkness of the darkest, the
most profound presence of evil – red, white, and black.
KC: But there’s also a significance in terms of the occult, with
regard to certain genetics.
JM: Certain genetics? Oh, of course.
KC: In other words, the red being a red-headed person with
certain kinds of DNA.
JM: Oh, I’m sure there’s more to that.
KC: And the black being a blond, usually Celtic, a mixture
perhaps.
394
JM: I’m sure that there is that, too. Yeah. The only thing I was
saying was that was very interesting because I remember that
night he talked about the European Masonic Orders and how the
Mexican gangs in Los Angeles and around the country use
Masonic symbols from a particular Masonic Order in Europe,
while the black gangs use opposing symbols and terms of a
different Masonic Order in Europe, and that most likely the gang
members themselves do not realize that these actually can be
traced back to Masonic symbols in Europe.
So I believe that the gangs going on in America today are being
organized, directed, and financed out of Europe to destroy our
culture in America. I think that European Freemasonry is heavily
involved in destroying America, and you need to understand the
whole story about how America was founded, and how it was
founded as a corporation. It’s a privately-owned corporation. We
can talk about that for days on end.
This is just my opinion, one man’s opinion, but I’m going to give
you my opinion as to the bottom line on the world today and the
stuff that’s going on, on the Earth today.
What we call Illuminati was originally a term which was given
to, in Spain, to a religious order in Spain that later on were
amalgamated into what we call Jesuits, so the Jesuits are truly
Illuminati themselves.
KC: And the Vatican. And you go into that as well.
JM: That was what I was going to say. Yes. I believe that one of
the most evil organizations that exists on the Earth today – and
you’d have to have spent all the years with me in libraries and
research societies and travel and go around the world and talking
to other writers, authors, lecturers, and teachers, and collecting
this stuff over a period of 45 to 48 years – to understand what I’m
telling you. But I believe today the most serious, evil
organization on the face of the Earth is the Vatican. That’s my
personal opinion.
I think if the Vatican was done away with off the face of the
Earth, there would be a shot of liberation heard round the world,
because the Vatican, in my opinion, is the bulwark of this dark
thing that’s happening on the Earth.
So when you talk about Illuminati, when you talk about the really
dark criminal stuff that’s going on on the Earth, you’re talking
the Vatican.
You’re talking the Knights of Malta, which gave us... the six men
who founded the CIA in America were all Catholics, members of
the Knights of Malta.
When you begin to look at the banking fraternities in America,
like the Bank of America, Union Bank in California, all of these
people who founded these banks and today are running the
banking establishment are all Knights of Malta – Catholic
Masonry.
So when I hear people talking about the Jews this, the Jews that,
and the Jews are responsible, I say: No, no. You better go back
and do your homework. The Jews have been slaughtered all over
Europe by the Vatican.
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You need to remember that for at least 2,300 years, Rome has
dominated Europe, under the Caesars of Rome. Then in the late
4th century the Vatican comes into being and the Vatican
dominates all of Europe.
All the heads of state, all the princes and kings and rulers... all the
kings and rulers in Europe ruled by the Divine Right. It’s called
the Divine Right of Kings.
What are you talking about? Who represents Divine to give the
king the right? – the Pope. The Pope appoints certain families to
be over the French, the Pope appoints certain people to be over
the Germans, and over the British – and by Divine right. Why?
Because the Pope represents God, and the Pope says that this
family is holy and that they should rule, and therefore they’ll say
they rule by Divine Right.
The whole idea of Divine goes back to the chalice, you know, the
Holy Grail. And in the Catholic Mass, you have the priest
breaking the bread and then pouring the wine. Well, wine is made
from grapes and wine is red, so it’s a red grape wine. It represents
the blood of the Atonement. Blood... it’s a blood sacrifice.
Where does the wine come from? It comes from grapes, and
grapes grow on the vine... and that’s where we get the concept
and the word Divine because grapes come from the vine. So
that’s where we get the word Divine.
And once you begin to realize how the Vatican has... for over
2,300 years, Rome has dominated Europe, and in 1,600 years, the
Vatican has dominated Europe – and Europe, for 2,300 years, has
dominated the Earth.
So if you want to talk about conspiracies and you want to talk
about evil, don’t talk about Jews. You better talk about the people
who control Europe for over 2,300 years – Caesar of Rome, the
Roman Catholic establishment. There’s the real story.
Now you’re getting into Mafiosi. Now you’re getting into the
fraternal orders of Freemasonry out of Europe, Knights of Malta.
Now you’re getting into the organized crimes – Sicily, Corsica –
and all of the profound drug-running, white slavery, murder for
hire, Vatican.
I mean, even... what was his name, the producer of Godfather?
What was his name? Francis Ford Coppola. In Godfather III,
Francis Ford Coppola, in Godfather III, the third one in the
series, opens up with Michael Corleone being anointed by the
Cardinal in New York to be a member of the Knights of Malta in
the Catholic Church in New York.
What is he telling you? The connection between the Vatican, the
Holy Father – there’s nothing holy about the “Holy Father”.
There’s nothing holy in Israel. Nothing. There’s nothing holy in
the Vatican. There is nothing holy in Salt Lake City. There’s
nothing holy in religion, period.
It’s a way that the masters, whoever these entities are who are
controlling the human race, they have set up certain institutions
of learning, of education, religion, and government. That’s why
I’ve said you better go back and do your homework on where the
history of the world comes from.
395
I don’t see the world being run by Jews. I see Jews being used,
but you will find that even Rothschild, the Rothschild family who
we hear so much about: Those Jews who were running Europe.
No. If you go back and look at the history of the Rothschilds, you
will find that Rothschilds represented the Vatican.
He was dealing for the Vatican. He was a Vatican banker
appointed by the Vatican to deal for them, so that the Catholic
Church would never be involved in all that terrible stuff going on
in banking: We’ll let the Jew do it. Then, of course, if something
comes out, well, it was Jewish, obviously. No, no. It’s your
money that he was handling.
So if you really want to nail down the real enemy to America and
then to the Earth, I’m telling you it’s only taken me 48 years to
get here. I was born and raised Catholic. I mean, my whole
family were very Catholic. We were the most Catholic family in
town. But I know history and I know that the most criminal
organization on the face of the Earth, in my humble opinion – I
don’t know that much about it, I’ve just been looking here for 48
years – is the Vatican.
KC: I hear you.
JM: As far as I’m concerned, it’s the worst thing that’s ever
happened to the world is what’s really going on in the Vatican.
And that doesn’t even bring up the subject of Propaganda Due,
P2 – Propaganda Due, P2 Lodge. That was even mentioned in
Godfather III twice.
There’s a Masonic order in Europe called Propaganda Due. It’s
called P2, and P2 is connected directly through membership with
Opus Dei and the Knights of Malta and the Jesuits. Jesuits/ Opus
Dei/ Knights of Malta/ Masonic Order, are connected directly to
something called Propaganda Due, P2 Lodge of Freemasonry.
P2 Lodge of Freemasonry is world famous to people who do
research into criminal organizations. P2 is pure, unadulterated,
pouring directly out of the trough of Nazism. Underworld
organizations, drugs, human trafficking, pornography, violence,
underworld organizations – it’s all P2. They’re the ones who are
promoting the right-wing death squads in Central and South
America, Mexico, the drug cartels in Colombia.
We’re talking Catholic Knights of Malta/ drug cartels/ Colombia
– extraordinary vice on a level which it is hard for most humans
to recognize and it’s all being orchestrated out of the Holy Father
in Rome.
This is why I’ve said so many times, there’s never gonna be a
time in the history of this country that America will be saved. I
don’t believe America can be saved. I truly do not believe that
America – or the human race – I don’t think...
It’s just my opinion, again, but I don’t think the human race can
be saved and I don’t think America can be saved, because so
many millions of people just love the filth and degeneracy of the
world we live in. They love it. They love the Holy Father and all
the pomp and glory of all the politicians and kings and rulers and
the pusillanimous pictures of Bush kissing the ring of the Holy
Father.
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What does that look like, for Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the house
Nancy Pelosi, in full color on the news, bowing down and
curtsying and bowing down and kissing the ring of a Roman
Pontiff?
The men who founded our great nation would throw up with this
treason, high crimes and treason against the state by these people
who call themselves America’s leaders. I’m telling you, the
Vatican has given us the Mafia, drug-running, prostitution,
terrorism, violence.
KC: Child pornography.
JM: Child pornography. All of it.
KC: And the children that are disappearing. Are you familiar
with Leo Zagami?
JM: Say it again?
KC: Leo Zagami.
JM: Oh yes. Yeah. I’ve heard him many times.
KC: Okay. He’s gone back into the fold because they tortured
him.
JM: Yeah.
KC: But when he was out for a moment talking to us, he talked
about underneath the Vatican is a huge reptilian base.
JM: I don’t know. I wasn’t there, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
[laughs]
KC: Right.
JM: I don’t know.
KC: So there is some kind of linkup between the agenda of the
Illuminati, the Vatican who’s heading all of that up, and this
reptilian roll-out – to get back to where we were talking about
and perhaps this so-called figure who’s taking the throne and the
symbolism that you’re talking about.
JM: I don’t know, but it wouldn’t surprise me. It wouldn’t shock
me. I want to say something about Dan Brown’s movies.
KC: Okay. Angels and Demons, and the other one...
BR: DaVinci Code.
JM: DaVinci Code, and now this new one.
KC: Is it really called the...? What we were...?
JM: I think it’s called The Hidden Symbol or The Secret Symbol,
or something like that, which my producer friend and I were
396
going to do a movie and we were going to call it The Hidden
Secret or The Secret Symbol.
KC: I understand.
JM: And now Dan Brown comes out, the Secret... As far as I’m
concerned, I have no respect whatsoever for Dan Brown. None. I
have no respect for the man at all, because as far as I’m
concerned, he’s plagiarized and stolen and I don’t like people
who steal, because I’ve had it happen to me.
KC: He stole from Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Isn’t that right?
JM: Oh, you can bet on it. Absolutely. He stole the whole thing,
that whole story, Dan Brown and The DaVinci Code and all this
other... Angels and Demons, all of that he stole.
Now let me tell you what I think. This is just my opinion. I think
Dan Brown is a plant. I think he’s nothing more than a paid
lackey and a plant. I am totally sure that the real Illuminati,
whoever these guys are at the top of the world, use people like
Dan Brown, who don’t mind making a lot of money to become a
whore. I think that’s all he is. In my humble opinion, I think Dan
Brown is just a whore. He’s just taking the money and sleeping
with the enemy.
I think what he’s doing is he is nothing more than presenting
what his masters behind the scenes want the public... and so they
will spend all kinds of money telling you about how wonderful
Dan Brown is and Oh my God! He’s so brilliant and intelligent,
and all this silly nonsense. And the people who are so used to
sucking up to Hollywood will believe that stuff.
Me, I’ve been around Hollywood 48 years. I know this stuff
backwards and forwards. I think Dan Brown is nothing more than
a front for a very powerful Masonic Order in Europe which is
trying to lay the foundations for this Novus Ordo Seclorum,
Dawn of a New Day sunrise-thing that’s coming. I think Dan
Brown is nothing more than a whore taking the money and
making it look like he’s the one that came up with this, when in
point of fact, no, it was stolen. It was stolen from three men in
England: Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln.
KC: Right.
JM: Back in 1980, there was a book put out that became a New
York best-seller for many, many months. It was a top-of-the-line
best-seller called Holy Blood, Holy Grail and the three authors
were three British authors, Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln.
They outlined for the first time, the story of the Knights Templar
Masonic Order in Europe, the Knights of the Holy Grail, the
whole concept of a Masonic secret society operating in the world.
And I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if they weren’t better informed
about this than what they let us know. I don’t think they just by
chance happened upon it. I think they already knew something
and they were putting it out in a book in such a way as to start
people thinking about it.
But nonetheless, Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln were
extraordinarily brilliant writers and their research was
impeccable. I mean, these guys nailed it down, and even today
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
around the world, people who are knowledgeable on these
subjects will agree: Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln did one hell of a
job; they had their homework done.
KC: Okay. Well, I have one last question.
This been an amazing journey to take with you, and I hope that
we can go down that road a little further in the future. I think that
people that are watching this really need to get up to speed with,
you know, following your other work, your previous work,
hopefully attending any conferences you’re speaking at. I believe
that you are coming forward. You had no preparation whatsoever
and you spoke at our Awake and Aware Camelot Conference here
in Los Angeles just last weekend, and it’s really an honor to be
here with you.
But I want to ask you if you think that this Illuminati and what’s
going on in the United States right now, do you really think that
they are going to be successful in taking down this country?
Because it’s clear that there is someone protecting you, there is a
group protecting you. You certainly have some amazing powers,
as you’ve demonstrated. Do you think that these powers, these
Illuminati people behind the scenes are going to be successful at
taking down the United States government?
JM: Yes. I totally agree. Yes. That’s what I think.
KC: Okay. I mean, you do have people behind the scenes that are
protecting you. You’ve demonstrated that time and time again on
this video.
JM: Right.
KC: They’re, therefore, in theory, protecting us here, Project
Camelot, and other of our witnesses and so on because we are all
talking about the same thing from different angles and getting our
research together, and so on.
JM: That’s right.
KC: But in essence what I’m wondering... There are white hats
operating, as you know, and as we know because we have been
interacting with those people from time to time. Do you think it’s
possible that these people can be stopped?
JM: No.
KC: You don’t.
JM: No. I do not.
KC: Okay.
JM: I categorically say No. I do not believe there is any
reasonable evidence of anything of hope for America or for the
world. That’s my personal opinion. I think that the light at the
end of the tunnel is a train coming.
There’s no doubt in my mind, for myself. I do not believe
America or the world at large is going to be able to extricate itself
out of this situation. No. I do not believe it’s possible.
397
And the reason why is because the people are too stupid. They’re
too ill-informed, ignorant, ill-informed, un-read, self-centered,
egotistical, materialistic, and down-right stupid. And they don’t
care. Basically speaking, people don’t care.
Ludwig von Mises in one of these books, the great European
economist, Ludwig von Mises said -- and he’s right-on as far as
I’m concerned -- he said that in every age and in every country,
the people of every nation have always supported a dictator. The
people have always supported a dictator and they always will.
There’s never been a time in the history of the human race that
you can show me where the people of a nation rose up and
demanded their freedom, liberty, and justice for all, not even in
America. Ninety-seven percent of the male population in
America at the time of the American Revolution did nothing.
Only 3 percent took up arms against the British masters and gave
us a modicum of freedom. But happily that will never happen
again. America is finished.
DW: This father of the girlfriend that you had, when he spoke to
you, did he tell you that we’re doomed? I mean, why did he call
in the UFOs and tell you all these things if we were just going
down the toilet? Did he tell you that we were doomed? Did he
tell you there was a war and that we were going to lose, no matter
what?
JM: No.
KC: Okay. Let me rephrase this: Do you realize that your mission
and your call to arms, which you’re really coming right on the
verge here – I mean, I think that the new release of V is sort of a
signal to the populace, a last-ditch attempt to wake the people up
as to what may be coming – and basically you have a mission, we
have a mission.
I’m sorry, you know, Jordan Maxwell, you’re a brilliant man, but
you were put here for a reason. You have incredible force behind
you. The man who spoke to you all those years ago and told you
that you would have a journey is certainly behind you now. I
would say that, judging from everything that’s gone on with
Project Camelot, that we have some of the same force behind us.
And I have to say that the fact that you’re sitting here today, and
you’re talking to us, and you’re alive and well, and you’re
coming forward at this moment and talking about things with
really no holds barred, is indication to me that there is something
going on that’s more than you have dreamed of in your
philosophy. So I want to thank you very much.
JM: Well, I want to answer that question. I do not believe
America can be saved.
KC: I hear you.
JM: I do not believe the human race can be extricated or saved
from what is coming. I do not believe that my mission here is to
save anybody. I believe what I am doing is to help those who
want to know, those handful of people who are awakening and
who sincerely spiritually understand the dynamics of what’s
going on and who want to know and want to change and want the
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
protection of the spirit... That’s a small modicum of people, a JM: I do, too.
very small niche.
KC: And I’m sure you do, too.
I do not believe America can be saved. I’m doing what I’m doing
only to help those who want to know. JM: Absolutely. That’s why I’m trying to do whatever I can to
help those who want to know and hopefully it may spread. Thank
KC: Obviously you are a person who is trying to wake up people. you.
Okay? Sometimes there has to be a severe word told to the people
in order to actually get them to awaken and I do believe that this KC: Thank you.
is part of your mission. But I will thank you from Project
Camelot. I hope that you are wrong about your final judgment on
the human race.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
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398
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Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Miriam Delicado
Lecture Transcript 19 September 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Here is Miriam Delicado, an
incredible friend. We consider her a part of Camelot, believe it or
not, because she is such a supporter and because we tend to work
together with her, as we do [with] several of our witnesses.
It’s an amazing dynamic – there’s such teamwork happening.
That would also include David Wilcock and George Green, and
actually, almost everyone who is speaking at the conference has
become someone that we are sort of working with, someone we
go to, to ask advice on different matters, someone who has their
own sort of agenda that we’re trying to support as well.
In Miriam’s case, she’s working with indigenous people, as you
may know, to bring peace to the planet, to also make people
aware of various things. I’m not going to speak for her here; I’m
going to let her do that.
But, I want to say that she’s an amazing personality, as well as a
spiritual being and I honor her as my colleague and friend, a dear,
dear woman to me, and I’m just very grateful that she’s alive
today – there have been efforts to take her out.
I recently did an interview with her... it’s quite short; it’s about a
half hour. During that interview, the tape and the film – I wasn’t
touching the camera; I just focused on her and stepped away – it
was hit by some kind of scalar weaponry... over, and over, and
over again.
It’s an amazing thing that certain numbers of our witnesses... the
Powers That Be -- whether they are ET, or whether they’re using
scalar weaponry and they’re human -- don’t want you to hear
what they have to say, and she’s one of those people.
So, pay close attention because she says things that may seem
very, sort of every-day? And yet she has a certain way of
speaking... it’s an interesting phenomenon and suddenly what
seem like plain words will take on new import. So, I want to
welcome Miriam Delicado. [applause]
I want to make sure this wire... talk to the crowd. I just want to
make sure they can hear you.
399
MIRIAM DELICADO (MD): Thank you. Whoo! I think they
heard the “Whoo!” when I sat down, maybe. Can everybody hear
me all right? [audience comments] No?
AUDIENCE: Yeah, go ahead.
MD: Okay. Well, if I start talking, maybe you can hear me a little
bit... [Kerry adjusts microphone] Thank you. I feel like a bit of a
diva! [laughs with audience]
I just want to say that I’m extremely nervous. I’m shaking. It’s
going to take me a few minutes to get through just a couple of
words that I wanted to say that are going to make me cry. So, I
can get them done and out of the way.
First of all, I want to talk about Kerry and Bill, and I want
everyone to really just look around the room and see what
extraordinary people you’re sitting next to, from all around the
world.
Conferences are everywhere, but something that I’ve noticed
that’s really special about Camelot and the people that go to
Camelot is that you have a deep desire to take action, that you’re
not just filling your minds with this information, but that you’re
asking the question: What can I do... for myself, for my
community?
This whole concept of Project Camelot is really, I believe,
making an impact on the world, because I most certainly receive
emails from around the world, from some extraordinarily small
places in China, villages in Japan, indigenous people from remote
areas.
So, the voices that we have at Camelot are very strong and I just
want to honor Kerry and Bill for allowing not just me but all of
us to have this opportunity to learn and to grow and walk through
this process together. So I just want to say thank you. [applause]
The second thing I want to share on a really personal note is to
talk to you about my car accident. Something very significant
happened in the week prior and the days prior to that car accident
and to me it was not a (quote) “accident.” It was not.
In saying that, I had this happen and it was very shocking to me,
because it came out of absolutely nowhere. I had no precognition
that anything was going to happen and so when Kerry and Bill
found out -- they called me from Europe -- they then got on the
phone almost immediately and called people in Los Angeles to
come to my side.
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[Voice tearful] I couldn’t walk! I couldn’t walk; I couldn’t get
out of bed; I couldn’t do anything, and I know so many of you
are asking me about this and it’s been very difficult for me. But I
wanted to tell you something really remarkable that came out of
that, because I was really concerned for myself after the accident.
Kerry and Bill swooped in. They sent people to my side and they
put me on their radio program and immediately people were
sending me healing energy which I was asking for. They were
sending me strength and they were sending me protection.
So, I feel just overwhelmed with gratitude [voice choked up] to
all of you because by the time two days rolled around, after that –
after everyone started sending all these emails and messages to
me and healing, and the healers walked in, I got up and I walked.
I got up out of bed and I walked out of that room that I was in
where I had stayed in bed for five days – I couldn’t get up. I’d
slept the entire time. It was like I was in a total daze in another
world. I barely remember it.
So, you healed me. I still have a few problems, but that whole
situation rolls me into why I’m here and what I want to talk to
you about – and that is the power that we have in coming
together, which is the blessing that I always have in my life, of
how I get to observe what happens when people make a decision
to come together.
So, I just wanted to say thank you to all of you and tell you that
from this point forward I’m doing well and I thank you for all of
your support. Now when we talk outside of this room, let’s really
get to some business because now you all know I’m doing well.
[laughs] [applause]
I’m hoping that most of you have watched the Project Camelot
interviews that I’ve done and you are aware that I have had
extraordinary ET contacts for most of my life and that I still have
those contacts up until the present day. So I’m going to share
some things with you that I haven’t shared publicly up to this
point.
I only have an hour. I never write down a speech or know what it
is exactly that I’m going to talk about before I walk into a room,
so hopefully, I’ll stay on track.
Twenty-one years ago, when I was taken onboard a craft in the
physical body, I was physically taken and walked onboard a
UFO, this really amazing knowledge was imparted to me about
how we are all connected. And, you know, these are simple
words: We Are All One.
If you were to sit down and meditate for the rest of your life on
that one sentence – We Are All One – you would still never fully
understand the concept that we ARE all One.
People write books and they make it complicated and they say
we’re all One and we’re all connected, and all of these things,
and they make it complicated. But it’s not. It’s very simple.
We are ONE PEOPLE... and that doesn’t mean people in the
United States; it doesn’t mean people in Canada, from where I’m
from. It means people all around the world. We are One People
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and we need to take responsibility for ourselves in our actions for
what it is that we are doing to walk into this future that we are
heading towards.
Now, this is actually one of the main messages that I received
from these Tall Blond ETs in 1988, is that there would come a
time when humanity would be walking into a “Time of Choice.”
You’re choosing right now what future it is that you want.
We cannot change the world in one day. We cannot change our
financial system in one swoop. We cannot even break it down.
We can’t destroy it because it’s what we have. So what can we
do?
I didn’t listen to all of George Green’s presentation. I know that
he talks about the financial situation quite a bit and he’s very
knowledgeable. He’s an amazing instrument to be able to come
forward and give you this knowledge of the steps that we’re
taking in order to change the system.
Every time an individual makes the decision and makes the
choice and acts on it and becomes responsible to change their
financial situation, to change the way that we’re living daily life
in a monetary system, the way that we’re living life, and with our
food production....
All of these issues – and there are many – when they all come
together in all of those little bits and pieces, it becomes the
change that we need to have.
Now, going back to the ETs, they said that we would come into
this Time of Choice, and that was the first part.
One of the second things that they said is that during this Time of
Choice a lot of people would become crazy. And let me tell you,
if you know people around you... they’re losing their minds! I’m
going to tell you why they’re losing their minds and it’s going to
get a little bit technical.
When I take responsibility for myself, I basically raise the
vibrational level of my physical body and my spiritual body,
combined -- those two things.
When I walk out into the world, and I’m walking around here at
the conference and you maybe walk up to me and you feel
something, that’s that energy that I’m letting flow through me.
And you do it as well; every single person does. It flows through
us and it’s like walking along and letting droplets fall beside you.
It’s drops of my energy that are melting into yours, and with that
energy comes information.
So every single person here is being responsible and making a
difference just by sitting in this room and listening to these
speakers, because every time you are with other people, you are
sharing your knowledge here.
So don’t panic and think that you need to tell everyone
everything all the time – because I get this from a lot of people: I
want to tell everybody. It’s not necessary. You show them who
you are through your actions, through your emotions, through
your physical body, through your spiritual self. That’s how you
make a change.
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The reason that people are going crazy is because if you have a
person who is not willing to make this change along with us, who
wants to stay in a really materialistic world and wants nothing but
five cars and the super-mansion and so forth, well, they’re not
going to be accepting this energy very well and it’s going to drive
them a bit mental.
So what we need to do is we need to have patience with the
people around us. This was a really big point that these ETs made
with me, is that during this particular time that we’re going
through... and this is going to be over the course of several years,
by the way. This is not going to be ending next year; it’s not
going to be ending in 2012. It’s going to be over the course of the
next 10, 15, 20 years. So buckle down because this is just the
beginning.
You are the people who are going to lead the others into this new
world that we’re walking into. So we need to take care of
ourselves spiritually. We need to take care of ourselves mentally,
but with the knowledge. It sounds really simple, doesn’t it, but it
makes a huge impact.
I know in my own personal life, which is the only thing that I can
talk about, is even if I walk into a room, people know that I’m
different... I don’t have to say a single word.
And eventually when they find out that I’ve had these contacts,
and prior to me being forthright with people about my contacts,
with my psychic abilities that I have, which are extensive, they
would say: Oh, I knew there was something really weird about
you. [laughter] And they’d go on and on and they’d say: Man,
now it all makes sense.
This is a very important point that the ETs need people to
understand – that it is a personal responsibility of the soul that we
need to first and foremost address in order for us to make an
impact.
Twenty-one years ago I’m onboard this craft, they tell me, they
said: One day there are people -- a particular group of people --
that I will find, and that when I do, I will know what to do.
And I did find those people and they’re very special people. I
don’t talk about them very much, but they are the Hopi. I know
that the Hopi are only one of these very special people on the
planet, one group of them within the indigenous community.
These individuals, their physical bodies may have been born here
and have come from here, but their actual DNA and structure and
form[s] of the human body came from what I call “the last
world.” If you would like to call it Atlantis, or if you would like
to call it Lemuria or so forth, you go ahead; I’m not going to get
into it because, you know what? Quite frankly, it is not important.
What is important is that these people, these indigenous people
from around the world, when they originally came to this world,
[they] were the first people on this Earth. And that they were
allowed to come here because they were given an opportunity to
come.
They were asked: Do you want to come and be taken off the
planet while we cleanse it of these negative forces that have taken
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over? They came and they’re the stewards of this land, this Earth.
They’re the caretakers, the original caretakers.
If people understood how much struggle these people have
around the world to maintain what it is that they have... Yes, they
live in poverty, and I’m not talking about Hopi -- I’m talking
about everywhere. They live in poverty. They have struggled
through repression. They don’t have proper schooling. They have
a lot of problems with the same issues that we have in the rest of
the world with alcohol and drugs and so forth.
But make no mistake that even through all of that, if you meet an
alcoholic that is an indigenous person, you still know that they are
special if you sit and listen to them. And what is that? It’s their
DNA that has come from “the last world”.
That’s one of the things that these ETs talked to me about, quite
detailed, that during this Time of Choice and during this Time of
Change that these people held a key to our future.
In the history of the indigenous people, they have been crushed
by outsiders – not just whites – the outside world, those that have
come afterwards, which is the rest of the population.
They have their own land. They’re protecting the water. They’re
protecting the Earth. They have certain abilities to work within
the system of the financial system in order to create the new
systems. If they have sovereignty, they have the ability to change
the monetary systems and create their own banks.
If they have their own land, they have the ability to create eco-
villages that are going to be the platforms for a new future. If
they have massive amounts of land, then they can begin to build
new ways of farming and producing food that is more productive
than having it the way that we have it right now, which is killing
our soil.
They also have knowledge about herbs and medicines and
healing practices that we can benefit from.
But let’s be clear on something which is really important. What
I’m talking to you about sounds as though it came from me
reading a book, or looking at something over here, or having a
conversation over there, but what I’m actually talking to you
about came directly from extraterrestrials.
So I take note of that and I say: All right, what can I do in order
to assist them?
So if you want to make a huge impact and you want to make it
quickly, one of the ways that this community can do that is to
find the tribe in your area and ask them: What can I do to work
with you?
You’re not going to be there to help them. We don’t help each
other; we assist one another. A lot of people try and help, and
they use their egos and they use another part of themselves, and
that doesn’t work. But if you work with someone, then you leave
the ego out of it and you actually accomplish something.
Now, twenty-one years ago, they said there would be a time, and
I call it the Great Gathering, the Great Gathering of Humanity.
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[Comment about how much time she has left has been deleted.]
I’m going to share something extraordinary with you. It’s the first
time I’ve shared this publicly and I think it’s time.
Twenty-one years ago... and I know I keep repeating myself
because I’m actually a little tired. I had a rough day yesterday, so
I apologize. When they talked about this Great Gathering, they
said that one of the keys to this, the biggest key, was the
indigenous communities around the world coming together, first
and foremost.
Secondly, it was the Star Family, the Star Beings that are here in
body, like myself and I’m sure like a lot of you out there sitting
in the audience, because we’re the ones doing the work. We’re
the ones making the changes. We’re the ones that are not working
from the ego – there’s no place for it here.
We’re in absolute service, giving up our family lives to a certain
degree, giving up our homes, our cars, our financial stability,
giving up our friendships that we’ve had for years in order to
work in absolute service for Humanity and for the Earth.
So the indigenous cultures come together. The Star Beings and
the Star Family come together. And beyond that, how do we pull
everyone else in – the mothers, the children, the grandchildren,
the grandfathers? Everyone... the politicians, and I’m really sorry
to tell you this, but the religious leaders from around the world as
well.
I’m not interested in talking to someone about how “this” religion
is no good and “that” religion is no good, and “this” belief is no
good and “that” one. You know what? Every single person on
this planet is a human being, and so if we want to make a change,
we need to invite everyone into the circle.
I had a conversation with someone here last night who was a little
off-center and they said that they felt as though there were a
number of “alphabet people” [Ed. Note: “CIA,” “FBI,” “NSA,”
etc.] in the room. And you know what, if there’s anyone here
along those lines that’s from some sort of an organization that
doesn’t like what we’re doing, you know what I said to this
person?
I said: Invite them to sit down with you. Invite them to your table
and have a conversation with them and teach them something,
because that’s what this is about.
Because when that person walks away, guess what, they’re still in
this body. So regardless of what they’re being told to do or
directed to do, they’re still going to be able to hear your voice.
So this Great Gathering is something that I’ve been waiting a
very long time in order to begin working on because that’s
exactly what I was instructed to do, was to talk to people and let
them know that this Great Gathering will take place around the
world.
It will not have a charge [Ed. Note: attendance fee]. So if you
hear about a gathering of indigenous people, if you hear about a
gathering of other people, and there’s a big charge for the amount
of money that you need to go -- this is not the prophesied
402
Gathering. This is not the Great Gathering, because that is not for
sale – for any charge.
For such a long time people asked me the details of what it is that
will happen. I tell them that I have held this vision in my mind
for all these years of every man, woman, and child on Earth
knowing that this event was taking place, all at the same time or
maybe all in the same week, where gatherings around the world
would happen in the middle of a city, in the middle of a village or
a small town. The people would just gather.
And the Gathering doesn’t have to say anything. They just have
to gather and be peaceful and say: We want a change in this
world.
You know, 9/11 was a horrible thing. And again, at this point in
my personal world I don’t care who created it. What I care about
and I think about often is the power, the power of humanity
because the moment that I saw that tower come down, do you
know what I did...? Well, I’m sure some of you know what I did
– I cried. I guess I cry a lot... but I cried.
Emotionally I was so distraught and so disturbed because I knew
that this would affect every single human being on Earth. I cried
because I felt, My God! They’re going to go to war. This is it.
Nuclear war is on its way. My God! I prayed and prayed and
prayed.
Then gatherings started happening around the world, and it was
like a vigil. And I believe I felt a change happen because my first
absolute intuition was absolute war, world-wide war. Then as
soon as the gatherings started happening around the planet, I
thought: Thank God! Because it means that these politicians are
going to get the message that nobody wants this big war, that it’s
not going to be accepted. And it’s NOT, and it wasn’t.
So we minimized the impact on ourselves by creating those
gatherings around the world and I know this – for myself, I know
this.
About a year-and-a-half ago in January of 2008, I was
instructed... I had a telepathic communication with my ETs to
meditate, which I finally did... after about three days, I finally had
the time to sit down and I meditated. They came to me and they
were very, very, very clear.
They said they wanted me to do something specific. And I
apologize for being cryptic, but I’m often cryptic for reasons.
They actually asked me to make something, and I said: Okay.
What?
I’m in this mediation and they said: We want you to look at
something over here and then we want you to make it.
I said: Okay.
The Tall Blond was standing right in front of me and I was sort of
in this astral world, not really paying attention, going: Okay, I’m
here. What do you want? I had to get back out because my
mother needed me.
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And they said: No! Pay attention!
And it was like I blinked and then the Tall Blond was standing on
my right and this object was sitting in front of me.
They said: Make this object, and they gave me some instructions
with it.
They said that it was time for the Great Gathering to begin, that
the foundations of it need to be started.
So I said: All right! They said: When you return, you must write
this down immediately.
And I said: Okay.
So I came out of the meditation, I sketched it out, and I put it
away. That was in January.
In March I took a trip. I was going to Nevada.
I said: Do I need to bring it with me? They said: No – very
clearly – No.
I said: Okey dokey.
Around July they said to me that they wanted me to get on the
road and make this piece that they wanted me to make, and start
laying the foundation for the Great Gathering.
I said: Okay.
I was looking after my mother at the time, who was aged, and she
was in the dying process and I said to them: No way. I’m not
doing it. I’m not leaving her.
I said: You have to give me exactly what I ask for, or forget it.
So I laid out my demand list! I said:
1) My mother must be taken care of. She must go into a place
where she is loved and she is taken care of to the highest good,
first.
2) You must supply me with the money, because I had no money.
3) You must find someone to make this piece for me because I
cannot do it on my own.
And the fourth thing... and I want you to listen very carefully to
this because it’s going to teach you something about the creation
that we have the ability to do…
4) You must bring Eagle feathers to my feet. I demand a physical
proof that what you are asking me to do is true and correct, or I
will not do this. I must have this come to me physically, or I will
not believe that this is real. So I demand Eagle feathers to my feet
AND I demand one white, pure white feather. This piece is
carved. A week later (I won’t get into all the details), a carver... I
403
ended up at his house -- no idea that he’s a carver -- went to his
house for some strange reason, walked in the door. After an hour
of conversation he said: I don’t know why you’re here.
I said: Well, I certainly do.
He said: Can you tell me why? I showed him the piece and he
began working on it immediately.
Two days later a stranger PayPal’d $800 to me. Then they
PayPal’d another $800 to me. I had $1600 in my PayPal in a
week.
Someone called and said: We’ve got a bed for your mother; she
has to come immediately. I called an ambulance and took her to
the hospital, where she was absolutely loved and taken care of
extraordinarily well.
And the last thing is I walked out of my house to go and water
my garden... and I want to stand up for this. I had to go and water
the garden, so I pulled the hose and I pulled it because I had to
water something in the far corner. I pulled it and it was, you
know, [acts out pulling hard] jarring on the hose.
And then I stood there and I had my feet like... [standing up,
gesturing] I was just looking at the garden and then I looked right
here [points to spot right in front of her feet] literally. Right there.
Seven eagle feathers. Seven Eagle feathers! Can you imagine
what went through my mind at that point, again? But not only
that! Not only that, there was one pure, absolutely pure white
feather sitting in the middle of it.
I’d told them: I don’t care how you bring these Eagle feathers to
me. You can bring someone to my door and knock on the door
and say: “Here’s your Eagle feathers.” You can leave them at my
doorstep.
I said: None of this get-in-the-car-drive-five-minutes-get-out-
walk-into-the-bush.
I said: I can’t do that... because at that point I couldn’t leave my
mother for more than 20 minutes at a time.
So I said: You must bring them to my feet. Have one of them fly
over and drop them in my yard. I don’t care.
So the point is that these ETs are still with me and they are very,
very strong.
But where did this go? [comment about getting up and walking
around deleted] Here’s what happened: I took the piece. I went to
Arizona. The message was: The Gathering, the Great Gathering
must begin... and I’m shaking, I’m vibrating all over as I’m
saying this to you.
Through this strange set of circumstances, which I don’t have
time to get into, I ended up talking to someone who said that
these people from South America -- the Mayans -- to be exact
were calling on this Gathering, because they themselves had been
receiving messages that it was time for the Great Gathering to
take place.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
It was an absolute chance that I ended up having this meeting
with these two individuals and the events leading up to it were
extraordinary.
So the point is that as I’m getting... I’m staying in my own
remote little world. I don’t read books. I don’t talk to people a lot
about the messages that they’re getting. I don’t go to lectures,
that type of thing... to try and keep myself as clear as possible. So
when I do get a message, it’s powerful. They said to me that it
was time for this Gathering to take place.
The ETs are making contact with people around the world and
giving them these messages. They’re saying it’s time; that these
possible cataclysms, these possible earthquakes, volcanoes, you
name it, solar flares, may come.
But I really want to stress something to you: We have the ability
as a human being to stop all of that! We have the ability to create
with our minds what we want.
See, you can focus on your financial situation, you can focus on
your home [and] you can focus on the fact that you’re not sure
where your job’s going to come to – but please do me a favor and
focus on what it is that you want in the world.
It’s not going to be about money. It’s not going to be about
power. It’s going to be about the human being again, so you need
to focus in on the heart and know that we’re moving back into
that time.
I’m so grateful that people like George Green are taking charge
of things that I have no ability to be able to talk on. And that’s the
great thing, also, is that each person that is coming forward right
now to speak has a piece of this puzzle.
So the Great Gathering is in the stages of beginning.
Now, I’m going to say some things that’ll probably tick off some
people, and I’m apologizing to them, because if they watch this
film... they’re not in this room, but if they watch this film, they
won’t be very pleased with me.
The Mayans have begun to come forward and I’m sure that many
of you are hearing about this.
Now, I have contacts in the indigenous world who are not the
Mayans – other people in the indigenous world. I’m not just
talking about one tribe; I’m talking about several of them.
They do not agree with what it is that these Mayans are saying.
They are not agreeing with it. They do not believe that saying
that the end of the world is coming is the right approach, because
it’s not. The Mayans are the Timekeepers. Well, great – they’re
the Timekeepers. Do they have so much ego that they can’t
believe that the other tribes need to be involved in what it is that
they’re doing?
This is not about the Mayans; it’s not about the Hopi; it’s not
about the Lakota; it’s not about anyone. What this is about is all
of them coming together, and coming together in unity to be able
to have this Gathering, so that we can create this flow of change.
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So, when you’re listening to things that are coming out right now
today – right now – from the Mayans and from others who are
talking about that, I want you to hear my words because: If they
want to speak, and if this person, these individuals, choose to
speak, allow them to do so, but understand that they are NOT
speaking for anyone other than themselves and they are not in the
consensus of all of them, for their information.
And I thought for a very long time about this, about whether or
not I should say something or not, but so many people have
contacted me with fear about what these Mayans are saying, and
this has never been the intention.
So they may have this contact with these Beings. They may have
a contact through Spirit because they did get the message that it
was time for the Gathering.
But in my own personal view – not in the ET view, but in my
personal view – there’re other issues getting in the way of them
being able to be as productive as they should be or could be, to be
as positive, and create the change that we need to have.
So my ET contacts are still very strong and I am blessed by them.
I don’t see them every day. I don’t talk to them all the time. I
follow the instructions that they give me and I try to share my
insights, my knowledge, my spiritual self, in order to bring some
sort of understanding to other people.
There’s a vast amount of areas that I can talk about. You want to
talk about the science? I can talk about the science. You want to
talk about the… [Her comment about she needs to stop walking
around for the cameraman deleted] I can talk about the way that
the crafts are run and some of that technology, but what does it
do for you? Tell me. All of these different technologies are out
there: zero-point energy, this kind of energy. There’s so much
talk about that. You now what? There’s not a single area in your
life that doesn’t absolutely reflect right back to these ETs.
Food production – the way that we’re planting our food – and
what’s happening with it right now may have come from
somewhere that is not a positive source, through genetic
manipulation of seeds.
Get your seeds, your heritage and heirloom seeds, so that we can
continue to grow our own food. That process is being shut down
all around the world and we need to be very, very careful of what
it is that we’re doing with our own food production because our
waters are being taken away. Our food is being taken away. Our
rights.
I’m in the United States right now and I have great respect for
every single human being on Earth so I don’t talk about a
particular country. I talk about Humanity and I talk about People.
Every single man, woman, and child on this planet has a right to
have a life, a life that has food, water, shelter, and guess what
else? Joy and happiness and love!
What is wrong with us?
I recently took a trip to Africa... and I don’t know how many of
you have seen that movie, District Nine. I went to see that
because I like to see what’s being put out into the world
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regarding this subject matter. I was horrified to see that the living
conditions that these ETs were living in...
Have you been to Africa? Guess what? That’s the way they live!
Miles and miles and miles of shanties. Not a store, nothing,
absolutely nothing.
So when you’re looking at that, what are you looking at? You’re
looking at the condition of a human being. What is wrong with
this world?
I can’t change the world in a day. I can’t change the attitudes of
an entire planet, but collectively as more and more people move
into this circle, it starts to spiral and it starts to move.
We start to understand that the money that we currently have... if
you have $50,000 sitting in the bank, instead of saying: Yeah, I’m
going to buy a car. I’m going to get a little Maserati... actually it
probably isn’t enough for this, is it? I don’t know! [laughs]
But if you have a lot of money and you’re thinking about that,
I’m going to tell you that you’re still thinking the wrong way.
Think about what you can do to your home to help the
environment. Think about what you can do in your back yard to
plant some food so you don’t have to buy it. Think about what
you can do to your car for biofuels – and I’m not talking about
corn-crop biofuels, because there’s new technologies out there
that we all need to get on.
We need to take action in any way possible and we need to take
action together.
When I started, I said I was healed because of the people in this
room and the people from Project Camelot, and I truly believe
that, because I couldn’t move! I could barely move. I couldn’t
even hold the phone, talking on that interview with Kerry and
Bill. I had to kind of put it there, put the pillow up and... and I
couldn’t even hold the phone. And I got up and walked!
So the Great Gathering is coming and what I’m going to say to
you is watch for it and watch for your part in it and how it is that
you can help.
Now, a lot of people have been contacting me because I put that
video out on Project Camelot. Two things:
First of all, I’m putting a whole new website together. There’s
going to be constantly new things coming up on it over the course
of the next week, and it’s going to be getting bigger and bigger
and bigger. So please go and check out my website to find out
what else you can be doing, because it’s going to keep
expanding.
Secondly, I want you to know that what you can do, you are
already doing, and that is network, network, network, network,
because when the call comes out...
I don’t have this confirmed, but I had someone tell me once that
the Tiananmen Square ... when that happened -- the Falun Gong
(hopefully I said it right), people that follow Falun Gong --
405
within one hour rallied 10,000 people into Tiananmen Square,
which is why the government in China no longer allows... you
know, they’re really against Falun Gong.
Now, be very careful how you end up using your network. Be
aware that you are waiting for THE moment to arrive. When this
moment arrives and you get the call and it’s time, I would love to
see every network, whether it is people who are following ETs –
they want the spiritual knowledge; the technology people; people
who have the programs for clean water, for poverty...
Again, I’m not really interested in people that are just interested
in UFOs and ETs, I’m interested in everyone. So when that
network goes out, it’s not going to be: Oh well, come and join us
at the ET gathering -- it’s going to be Come and join us at the
Human gathering.
And so, keep building your network in your personal life to the
fullest extent that you can and is possible – which is what we’ve
all been doing for the last, you know, how many years.
Something really important for myself that I want to say to
everyone out there is: It wouldn’t be possible for me to stand
here, or for any of the speakers to be here if it wasn’t for people
like you.
It wouldn’t be possible for me to stand here personally if it
wasn’t possible for all of those individuals who took all of that
ridicule, all of the hardships, all of the difficulties that they had.
They made it easy for me! Because 21 years ago when I had my
contact, my big physical contact 21 years ago, I couldn’t say ET.
I couldn’t say alien. I couldn’t say craft. I couldn’t say spiritual
knowledge. I couldn’t say propulsion system. I couldn’t say alien
technology. I couldn’t talk!
So we have slowly been building and building and building, and
you are the first primary big wave. You have the ability through
your voice, through your heart, through your actions, and through
your responsibility, to be able to make the changes that are
necessary.
All of these things that I’m saying to you – all of them, every
single word that I’m saying to you – is not my personal thinking
unless I tell you that... and I’ll say it: This is what I personally
think. These are the messages that were given to me by these ETs
– direct messages.
I wish I could take myself and put them into each person just for
5 seconds and plop back out again because man, I’m telling you,
we’d be on fire if we did that!
So I’m working on a lot of different projects, and I want to also
say thank you to everyone for assisting me because if I wasn’t
assisted, I wouldn’t be able to be here right now. And from my
car accident, I don’t know how I would have gotten home and
gotten the care that I needed when I was here.
My friend who was with me in the car accident is fine. He had a
bit of whiplash. He’s got a few issues with his back and neck still
and he’s still in recovery as well, but he is feverishly helping me
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
to get this new website going and to do a number of different
things.
So I just want to say thank you to everybody for everything.
I have no idea how much time I have left, but I want to know if
any one of you has a question?
AUDIENCE MEMBER [AM 1]: Hi. First, what is the name of
your website?
MD: The new website that’s coming up -- he’s working on it
right now -- is www.bluestarprophecy.com .
AM 1: Okay, one more question. You spoke briefly about
Mayans. If my understanding is correct, according to Drunvalo
Melchizedek... [interruption to adjust microphone]
Well, apparently Drunvalo Melchizedek claims he has been
chosen by one of the senior Mayan Councils as a spokesperson
for them and I’m wondering, basically, if you have any comment
in regards to some of the stuff that he’s been talking about... if
you have any knowledge from the inside.
MD: I have great respect for all indigenous people and the people
that are coming forward. Drunvalo has been chosen by the
Mayan Council to come forward and speak, and that’s their
business. That’s what they are doing right now. The Mayan
Council did, in fact, receive messages, and I know this for a fact,
to come forward.
I have great respect for everyone in South America, including the
individuals from the Mayan Council that he is dealing with.
However, if you hear the Mayan Council or if you hear Drunvalo
– and I’m sorry, I’m going to be in some hot water over this, I’m
sure – talk about other tribes, I’m not going to say that what he’s
saying isn’t correct.
What I’m going to say is: Use your discretion -- because the
Mayans themselves are speaking on behalf of other tribes and I
know that these things are not correct. I have to be careful as to
how I deal with that, but it is a very big issue right now.
Know this also, that there are many councils, from what I
understand of the Mayans. I’ve only heard the voice of one man
so far. Myself, personally... I don’t need to be running around
talking to all these indigenous people, boosting myself up, you
know, for myself? I don’t need that acknowledgement.
What I need to know is that they’re willing to come together
without ego, without ego, and again, without ego.
So if you’re speaking, you’re speaking for yourself. If I’m
speaking, I’m speaking for myself. If the Mayans are speaking, I
ask the Mayans to be respectful and speak for themselves. That is
what I ask for from the Mayans or from any tribe.
No, this is not about the individual, whether it is an individual
collective or an individual self. This is about unity and the
406
Humanity and the heart of all of man. So this issue, for me, has
been extremely challenging.
Now, something in this also... I made a comment that someone
from South America was doing black magic on me and I know
that they were. This was not... because people have asked me
about this.
They said: Was it George Green?
I’m like: No, it wasn’t George Green! [audience laughs]
Yeah, can you see him with the little...? [pantomimes handling a
doll] I don’t think so! [audience laughs] It was not George Green
and it was not the Mayans. So I’ll just leave it at that, but it was
someone that I know is doing it. The point in that is yes, just be
cautious.
AM 1: What was the article that you have been created, if you
can tell us, and what will its purpose be, and when do you think
the Great Gathering will be?
MD: The piece itself I cannot talk to you about in detail at this
time. It will come forward at a later date.
The Great Gathering is in the process of being. It’s always been
in the process of being made through networking, through talking
to people and through laying foundations. Do I know when it will
be? No. But I’m going to pray and I ask you all to pray that it will
happen as quickly as possible. You’ll all know, believe me.
AM 1: I know I asked a question before, but why, in your
opinion, did they choose you to contact? And do they want more
people to be contacted or do they want more people to
continually, actively spread this message?
MD: Yes. Why was it that I was (quote) “chosen”? Am I special?
No. [laughs]
What I was is... I’m an individual. I’m at least in part a human
being, probably more than ET, but I believe I have ET DNA in
me. My family lineage will go all the way back to the beginning
of human life and the creation of these bodies. This is one of the
reasons why certain families will have ET contact from
generation to generation.
So it’s not the individual. It’s whether or not the physical body is
strong enough to able to withstand the higher vibrational
frequency of what it is that’s coming through. So, did that answer
it a little bit? [to audience member] Darrell?
DARRELL: Everyone in this audience will want to know... I am
a Hopi. I am from the Four Mesas and Miriam has come to visit
us and bring her message. We appreciate her visit. She brings a
message that will help us and other individuals on this Earth, in
this community. We are trying to develop a good rap with her
and we appreciate the information she brings. We are hoping to
work together, share what we can with her, accept what she
brings to us. We appreciate it.
MD: Thank you.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DARRELL: [unclear]
MD: Thank you.
[applause]
AM 2: I want to thank you for bringing your story forward. It’s a
great story. But in your book you mentioned the appearance of a
Second Sun. I was wondering if you could briefly comment on
that symbol, as it relates to the Gathering.
MD: I was told that a star would appear in the sky for all of man
to see. Nothing or no one would be able to hide its presence from
the world, and it would be a sign to the people that the end was
near.
I believe – not any other group – I believe that the Comet
Holmes, last year, was the appearance of this Blue Star. For a
number of reasons I do believe that it was the Blue Star that
appeared, and that there will be other signs coming to us. When I
know these signs, I will let you know.
What it means is that we are in a window, a time, a Time of
Choice, and we have very limited... I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say
limited. We have a number of years, not months but years, before
these great changes take place... if they do, because humanity has
the ability to change any of these cataclysms that might take
place.
[to audience] I have time for one more quick, quick question.
AM 3: Could you go into a little about meditation? Like how
does one go about meditating?
MD: Okay. Meditation. I think that what the real question that
you’re trying to ask me, and you can just nod if that’s correct, is
how do you contact these ETs?
AM 3: [inaudible]
MD: Okay. Because a lot of people ask me about that and Kerry
and Bill are here, so... When I meditate, I meditate just by laying
down, by sitting cross-legged, by sitting in a chair. I could be
sitting across from you and I could be meditating.
Honestly, meditation is being made something that it is not.
Meditation is not about sitting down for hours and hours and
hours a day, it’s about being productive with your meditation.
**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**
407
Your meditation should be taking place all day long every day. It
should be within your heart that you actually mediate.
So when you meditate, the only requirement is to be able to be
comfortable, to ground yourself, protect yourself with light, and
ask your guides to come to you, whoever it is that they happen to
be.
Now, for myself, in making contact with the ETs... just because I
call on them doesn’t mean that they come to me. They come to
me when they can because there’re not enough of them to go
around.
But they are contacting you in a dream, in a vision, in a feeling,
in many of these different ways and they may be coming to you
in your meditations and you don’t even know it.
So if you want to make contact, what I would suggest to you is
that you continue to ask, and if you want to see a craft, continue
to keep your eyes open; there’s ways to be able to see things.
And many people, not a huge lineup, but a fair number of people
who have been around me, and spent time with me, and truly
listened to what I was saying to them, and really paid attention to
the fact that they need to keep their eyes open, have then ended
up having sightings of their own that they know for sure was craft
or orbs.
So once you get to my website and everything’s all up, I’m going
to be doing videos about how you can do all this because I want
to get as much information as I can out here.
And so, am I done? [audience laughs]
BILL RYAN: You’re done! [laughs]
[applause]
MD: So just before you go... Again, my website’s
www.bluestarprophecy.com , and I have a couple of books here,
and I can take some orders if you want and so forth.
Again, whatever we can do in this community... I’m going to ask
this. They don’t even know I’m going to say this: If you want to
take responsibility and you want to make a difference, please do
one thing – support Kerry and Bill. [applause]
BILL RYAN: Thank you.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com

Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Dr. Alfred Webre
Lecture Transcript 19 September 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them revolutions, the wars, and the breakthroughs in human society at
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in the collective level, happened at the solar maximum.
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected [Kerry and Alfred spend a few minutes testing the PowerPoint]
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot, Thank you, Kerry. [applause] Thank you.
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Well, as we were saying, this presentation... and there are about
60 slides here, so I'll tend to go through them on a relatively
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Alfred Webre is the originator of the quick basis, following the trend from 2009 to 2020, and we'll be
term "Exopolitics” -- for those of you that don't know that, and going kind of on a macrocosmic scale on much of this.
he's actually a "futurist"; he's an amazing thinker. He was in this
field doing things and thinking things before most people had any
[slide of Milky Way] That's the picture of our own Galaxy, the
idea, even in UFOlogy, how to really think about this whole
Milky Way Galaxy, and we'll also be getting into the axis of
concept that we are not alone in the universe. So I just want to
which is a Galactic Center black hole at the center of our Galaxy.
give kudos to him and really honor him for that.
And now it turns out that science is discovering, as you might
have suspected, a universal axis... not only a galactic axis but a
He's also been...um…how do I put this? He's undergone heavy- universal axis.
duty surveillance and other kinds of things. He is Canadian, but
obviously, he was on the target list for the Powers That Be for
So the synchrony that we're going through now is occurring, not
quite a long time, and actually, he's had to weather all kinds of
only at the individual level, at the planetary level, at the solar
stuff that he doesn't even talk about. I know this because of my
level, at the galactic level, but at the universal level.
intuitive ability, but also because I followed his work, actually,
long before Camelot. So I just want to really honor him for that.
So, it's not only just us here – it's HUGE! And the universe is
really the source of our thoughts. We just think that we have
Other than that, I think we can just give him the microphone and
private thoughts, but it's coming at the galactic level and at the
let him begin to talk … because he's very knowledgeable in so
universal level. So, one message for that is - RELAX and ENJOY
many ways.
IT! [laughs along with audience]

KC: [to Alfred] Are you hooked up here with this?

ALFRED WEBRE (AW): Yes, am I?
Great…okay! [applause]
[Slide titled: Exopolitics: 2009 – 2020, Solar Cycle & A Golden
Age, Alfred Lambremont Webre, JD, M.Ed.
[applause] Oh.
www.exopolitics.com showing the topics listed below.]

Thank you very, very much, Kerry, and I want to thank Project
Now, we'll be covering: I. Solar Cycle 24, which is a perfect
Camelot who are really providing, I think, in my humble opinion,
storm II. Galactic Alignment III. Exopolitics & the Time
a leading edge, if not THE leading edge platform for
Acceleration Matrix.
whistleblowers to come forth on the issues that will create a
positive future for us.
Time is actually accelerating as we speak, as we sit here, because
time is not a constant; and Exopolitics is the new political science
And on that note, that's the note that I'll be sharing with you in a
of outer space. It’s the science of relations between our human
PowerPoint on Solar Cycle 24. Solar Cycle 24 is the one that's
civilization and other civilizations in the multiverse.
just starting now – 2009 to 2020, and by 2020, we'll be roughly
into the beginnings of a Golden Age. So, I know that it's very
hard to go from “the problem statement” to a Golden Age, but We’ll be talking about: IV. Positive Outcomes of Solar Cycle 24
that's roughly the process that we're in now. and V. Strategies & Solutions

If we look at Solar Cycle 24, which we'll be seeing all the graphs
and pictures of, the solar maximum will be in 2012 to 2013,
specifically, some say, in May of 2013. What that means – and
we'll share some of this – is that there's the Index of Human
Excitability which has been plotted by a Russian scientist going
back to 500 BC. What he's plotted is that about 80% of the
[slide of NASA data] Well, welcome to Solar Cycle 24, 2009 to
2020. There are many predictions of what the amplitude of Solar
Cycle 24 will be, as you can see from this graph by NASA. Some
think that it’s going to be very low amplitude and some think that
it’s going to be very high amplitude – so we’re in a position of
maximal uncertainty now.

408
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Although some information about Solar Cycle 25 is coming in,
most of the predictions are only within this cycle, that is, 2009 to
2020, and so I like focusing, amongst many other reasons, on
Solar Cycle 24 (2009 – 2020) because it gets us out of the 2012
meme and says: Hey, it’s a cycle. [laughs]
Okay. Right now we’re in a deep solar minimum and there’s
about a 50-year low in solar wind pressure. What this means is
that there will be fewer geomagnetic storms that theoretically can
affect all the computer equipment and satellites and other things
that we have here on Earth.
We continue to be in a deep solar minimum and the Sun’s
brightness is dropping. We’re in the deepest solar minimum in
nearly a century.
Sunspot magnetism, which you can see plotted there on the
graph, is on the decline. It may be that sunspots will be
increasing because we’re in such uncertainty. You can remember
seeing from the graph at the beginning that sunspot cycles may
be picking up by the end of 2009, to be followed by a solar
maximum of below-average intensity in 2012 or 2013.
However, there's another view of this and that is that if the Sun
continues to become more quiet, we'll be going into a territory of
historic minimum and a quiet Sun will cause temperatures
globally to take a nosedive. This is contrary to the global
warming argument. [laughs] So, we're in a period of maximum
uncertainty.
If this version is coming forward, which there’s some basis for
it... Temperatures are actually falling around the globe, not
getting warmer, and we know already that from 1998, the lower
troposphere temperatures globally have fallen around half a
degree Celsius due to the quiet Sun. So it's necessary to go deeper
than the “global warming” headlines to really understand the
dynamics.
However, if we do have a Dalton Minimum or a Maunder
Minimum, which are referred to historically – low Sun minima –
the main effect will be to have famine and starvation worldwide
due to shortened growing seasons and harsher weather.
And so, we may be headed into what is called a mini ice age –
and we don't know – and we're at 2009. So that's the degree of
uncertainty. It's the principle: The more you know, the more you
don't know. [laughs]
So, some of the evidence is that Solar Cycle 25, which will be
peaking around 2022 (it starts in 2020) could be one of the
weakest solar cycles in centuries, and that's connected to a
possible mini ice age. That's because the conveyor belt system on
the Sun is beginning to weaken.
Now, in the midst of all this, we have a National Academy of
Sciences report from January ’09 which says that 2012 to 2013,
the solar maximum, may actually bring the perfect storm... in
other words, solar flares and systems collapse of our current
infrastructure around the planet – our energy infrastructure.
The National Academy of Sciences report looks at the possibility
that if we do have a repetition of the 8-day 1859 Carrington
409
Event – a very large solar flare that essentially destroyed the
telegraphic system worldwide, which was the electrical system at
that time – in the US the damage could be as high as $2 trillion,
with millions dead (this is from the report itself), and it's
questionable whether the US would ever bounce back. Now,
we're talking about 2012 to 2013.
Moreover, NASA has now discovered that there's a hole in the
Earth's magnetic field which is ten times as large as was
previously thought. The magnetosphere is what protects the Earth
from the impact of solar flares, and it could be that up to 20 times
the amount of solar plasma could enter the Earth than before. So
we have a force-multiplier of a solar flare with a hole in the
magnetosphere here... looking at the “worst case scenario”.
We're looking at a solar maximum which will be around May of
2013, and one scientist says: It's the perfect sequence for a very
big event if a solar flare should load the magnetosphere with
plasma just before a solar storm occurs.
We have to remember that we're in a deep solar minimum, which
tends to lessen solar storms, so there are all these variables that
are occurring at once.
[slide] This is a map from the National Academy of Sciences
study which shows total collapse. The orange areas on both
coasts show the total collapse of the electrical grid, and the red
[areas] are vulnerable transformers. This is where the estimate of
"millions dead” has come from – knocking out about 300 key
transformers, cutting power to 130-million people.
AND, the coronal mass ejection from the 1859 Carrington Event
arrived on Earth faster than our early warning system now.
China and Europe are equally vulnerable. China’s actually
installing a high-power electrical grid that is more vulnerable
than that of the U.S. and Europe, and the other developed nations
will be similarly impacted. What's important is that, as far as a
reality check, the head of the European Space Agency / Space
Weather, says: This is a fair and balanced report. So, that's some
of the possibilities.
[slide] Now, these are the G-20 with the Queen. If we look at the
Obama White House website and ask about 2012, 2013, the only
thing that is on the website as far as energy policy is that the U.S.
wants to ensure that ten percent of our electricity comes from
renewable sources by 2012. So that's a policy statement, and this
is entirely off the radar.
So here's a key question. Obviously, if we had smart leadership at
the helm of the planet, we would be getting off the grid and we'd
be using some of the non-polluting zero-point energy sources
such as anti-gravity technology and important teleportation
technology which would revolutionize transport on this planet
and which are available now on an operational basis in the black
budget economy.
So the question is: Are we being set up to fail and suffer an
effective systems collapse if the 2012 to 2013 solar flares
materialize? [slide] Now, here are some other impacts – the effect
of Solar Cycle 24 on human behavior and that is that sunspots
give off solar flares that increase negative ionization on Earth,
and increased negative ionization during sunspot maximum
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
periods increases human excitability and activity. So, some of the
regularities in studying past solar cycles is that there’s a definite
tendency for pandemics to occur during solar maxima.
Now, the current H1N1 virus may be being manipulated, and it's
being manipulated at a time in which, if we go back centuries, we
know that there's a tendency for pandemics to occur. And this is
dating back to the early 1700's.
So, if there is an attempt in the H1N1 virus and the mandatory
vaccination scheme, then it's truly diabolical because people are
working with historical data that shows that there is a tendency
for pandemics to occur.
Some of the research shows that geomagnetic storms cause
different reactions, primarily in males. Women seem to
experience less change in accordance with the Sun's behavior.
Men may become increasingly irritable and aggressive – either
that or they become more creative. [laughs] So, there's a definite
choice [laughter] to be made there.
But this brings us to the Index of Human Excitability, which was
developed by a Soviet professor. He traced the incidence of wars,
revolutions-rise, expeditions, and migrations from 500 BC to
1922 AD.
What he shows is that... He divided them into four periods and
showed that in period Two and Three – which correspond to
2010 to 2011, which is coming up in this next year; and 2012 to
2014 – there is, to take the maximum... In 2012 to 2014 it's the
maximum excitability: the election of liberals or radicals, mass
demonstrations, riots, revolutions, war, and the resolution of most
pressing demands. So that's what has occurred historically during
the solar maxima.
Now, there is (and we don't have time to get into it today) but we
do have another PowerPoint which shows the effect of a spaced-
based weapon of mass destruction known as HAARP, which you
may have heard of, and its demonstrated mood and mind control
ability. So, we don't know.
HAARP is another variable which may be off-setting the effects
of the Index of Human Mass Excitability and the effects during
the solar maximum of sunspots, in that HAARP can render entire
populations extremely apathetic and confused. There's deep
evidence that that is occurring. We may have intersecting
variables here. One reason why our body politic is so apathetic
[is] sources from systematic mind control through technologies
such as HAARP.
But it's also related to the sunspot cycles in that we're in a deep
solar minimum now. I mean, there's all these outrages happening
and the human population seems relatively apathetic, to begin to
move around it. But this data is very hopeful because if we have a
rapid swing in sunspots over the next few years, it will be,
hopefully, not the time for wars, but the time for social
breakthroughs.
This brings us to several possible visions that we can have of
Solar Cycle 24, 2009 to 2020.
410
The Disintegration Vision is global and regional wars – the
Armageddon meme. This is the meme employed by the
Permanent War Economy, whose business it is to promote war as
an industrial activity and to keep us organized around war within
the dialectic of “enemies”; to have all of our productive capacity,
and our mental capacity, and our emotional capacity (our fears)
directed towards war... which is an industrial activity, like
making shoes.
• The collapse of the world energy grid, which we’ve
talked about, from solar flares.
• The collapse of the global financial system, which
George [George Green] talked about earlier today.
• The collapse of nation-states. One prominent example
is that of the U.S., and there's a meme now to
deconstruct the U.S. as a nation.
I should say that back in the mid-’70's when I was a futurist at
Stanford Research Institute, that was being actively studied there
– that is, the break-up of the U.S. into about five or six region-
nations. And so, in my mind, there's a question as to whether
that's an attempted social engineering to deconstruct what is one
of the advanced democracies that could be a positive force.
• Ecological collapse - we've heard about the world's
oceans, the ozone layer, etcetera.
• Pandemics - those that are engineered and those that
occur normally because of our relationship to solar
activity which may make extra-planetary interventions
from causing those.
• Earth changes - vast Earth changes in terms of
earthquakes, the migration of planets, the moving of the
tectonic plate system.
Is this the outcome of Solar Cycle 24?
Well, there's an alternative vision. It's kind of Is the glass half-
empty or the glass half-full? Or rose-colored Glasses – and that
is peaceful conflict-resolution.
• What if human consciousness is shifting during this
period such that the Permanent War Economy cannot
manipulate us into war? And, instead, our political
systems move to peaceful conflict-resolution as a
modality; the emergence of new forms of world public
order which are positive, not kind of the New World
Order of the Third to Fourth Reich variety.
• The emergence of money as a public utility.
Right now, money is actually the private property of a very small
group of people. The U.S. dollar until now has been the reserve
currency for the world, but the dollar bills that you have in your
pocket are actually the property of the Federal Reserve Bank –
you only have a temporary license to use them.
The Federal Reserve Bank, according to a 1976 U.S. Senate sub-
committee study (which we have online; just google 911 War
Crimes Tribunal)... the Federal Reserve Bank is actually
beneficially owned by one family and that's the Rothschild family
which is headquartered in London and France.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
This is a very grounded study which was done of the ownership
of the banks that in turn own the Federal Reserve System. So we
have one family that owns all of the currency in the world, and
the currency itself is private property of that family.
Well, in fact, money should be a public utility like electricity or
like water. With public central banks, then, if you wanted to start
a business, well the bank would just provide money to you in the
same way that it provides electricity to your workshop, and
water, and public transportation. So it's a whole transformation
that can happen with regard to money.
• Ecological energy. Right now, the black budget
economy runs on the basis of teleportation and that's a
very efficient transportation mechanism.
We've built these concrete roads which take away all the green
space, cities are designed around the automobile, and we're using
explosions and polluting fossil fuel to move these heavy hunks of
steel to transfer maybe one or two persons.
Well, teleportation is an actual mechanism now. If you go to
www.examiner.com , I've got a column there – just enter my
name, Alfred Webre, in the search – and this past week we
released an article which is now the number one political
Examiner article in the USA. It's at the top. It's being read more
than any political Examiner article in the U.S., and that is that
two whistleblowers have now come forth and confirmed that they
have teleported from Earth to Mars and met with Martian
extraterrestrials.
Both of those whistleblowers are affiliated with Project Camelot
– Arthur Neumann, who's been using a name to protect himself
up until now (Henry Deacon) and Andrew Basiago, who's a
colleague of mine in the Mars Anomaly Research Society.
So, we now have definite proof and whistleblowers – a very high
level of evidence – that teleportation is being employed in the
National Security State, and that could revolutionize our entire
society and will revolutionize our society.
I think I can share this because Andrew, my colleague, has now
shared it... he was enrolled as a child participant in a DARPA
time travel program by the U.S. which, the U.S. we know
definitively now, has had the ability to time travel either by
Chronovisor -- kind of a television or a three-dimensional
hologram that looks at forward and past scenes; and via actual
teleportation devices.
Andrew has been to the year 2045 and it's a beautiful Earth.
There's a lot of greenery and the cities are all kind of ecological
and they're concentrated.
So we have a peaceful future, say about 30 or 40 years from now,
and it's just this transition that we're going through.
So, there have been people who have been to the future on a
physical basis for the United States government, bringing back
information from the future to the past to help humanity plan for
the future. And it's quite positive.
So it's important to stay focused on the fact that we're going
toward a positive future because that way we create it.
411
Now, what we'll be seeing also is that our very DNA, as we
speak, is being transformed by cosmic forces, by the Galactic
Center black hole which is acting as sort of a gigantic laser beam
[laughs] to transform our DNA to be able to handle a multi-
dimensional future in which we are once again interacting with
the rest of organized society in the universe, and to also bring us
into an era of non-dualistic consciousness.
These are some of the changes that will be occurring that we're
living through now and will be occurring during Solar Cycle 24,
on an intense basis, from 2009 to 2020.
So, these can be the outcomes of Solar Cycle 24 – a
Transformation Vision rather than a Disintegration Vision, and it
depends one where one wants to put one's energy and what sort
of holistic vision one wants to maintain.
[slide] Now, we should also talk about the fact that we're going
through the plane of the Galactic Center black hole. If we look at
our Milky Way Galaxy, it looks kind of like a pancake with a
Galactic Center black hole at the center. It's about 100,000 light-
years across; there are about 200- to 400-billion star systems in it.
At the center of the Galaxy is a massive black hole, about four-
million times the density of our Sun, and that black hole spins
around once every eleven minutes, as opposed to our Earth which
spins around once every 24 hours, and our sun which revolves
about once a month.
So the Galactic Center black hole... and now science has
confirmed that every galaxy, most galaxies, have a black hole at
their center. It’s like the engine of the Galaxy which at the
physical level is creating the stars and various other celestial
matter and at other dimensional levels is creating life and
consciousness.
DNA is being affected by the Galactic Center black hole, and our
very consciousness. We tend to think that, again, our thoughts are
our own; there are our thoughts. Our individual little radio-
receptor brains and minds are picking up a vast field, a
morphogenic field, that is being broadcast by the Galactic Center
black hole, indeed by the universal axis, at once, to ALL.
[slide] This is another view of the Milky Way Galaxy. You can
see how it's a pancake with a Galactic Center black hole at the
center.
Now, [pointing to slide] this is the Galactic Center black hole.
The plane of our Solar System is now passing through the plane
of the Galactic Center black hole. It's a 36-year journey. It started
in 1980 and will go to 2016. So we're going through the plane of
the Galactic Center black hole right now.
This Galactic alignment occurs about once every 12,800 years.
[new slide] That's another schematic which shows how the plane
is going through. It takes about 36 years.
There may be Earth changes during this time. Some of the
theories of the Earth changes are interesting. One is a Galactic
Superwave theory, and that is looking at the Galaxy as an
enormous volcano with the Galactic Center sort of the center, and
Galactic bursts occur which are sent out in a Superwave fashion,
taking debris and material throughout the Galaxy. Another source
of possible Earth changes would be celestial bodies entering the
Solar System like what occurred in 9500 BC, which is when a
portion – fragments – of this Vela supernova entered the Solar
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System and apparently collided with Mars, which was then an
active, verdant planet with a common human society with our
Earth, and destroyed the ecology of Mars, so that now it’s a very
fragile ecology. The survivors are an intelligent human
civilization living under the surface of Mars.
This hit Earth also and destroyed our great maritime civilization
which Plato called Atlantis, which was the “last world.” So, we
humans have gone through a very severe trauma in the last
11,500 years, with the 9500 BC Solar System catastrophe.
What writer Barbara Hand Clow says is that one of the reasons
why we have such genetic and embedded fear of impending
catastrophe is we have catastrophobia and it's the memory of the
9500 BC Solar System catastrophe. That is, our future is going to
be relatively stable - it's our collective psyche which is unstable.
The Galactic Center black hole may have energy bursts which
may change, flip, or wobble the Earth. These are the possible
sources, but again we have to look at this within the lens of
catastrophobia. One researcher has codified a Time Acceleration
Matrix for the Galactic alignment and that is the concept that
time is really accelerating. We're in the space-time dimension and
the dimension of time is accelerating: Oh My God, it's Saturday
again! [laughter] You know: How did that happen?
What he says is that we're coming into a period of human
enlightenment, the disappearance of national borders, Divinely-
guided anarchy, and the strengthening of the East. So, you know,
this is part of the thing that’s occurring. We're also going through
a photon band which may be a force to increase our
consciousness and, as we just mentioned, the rate of change is
accelerating – and that is that there will be 20 times as much
change and transformation in the period February to December
2011 as there was during the period 1999 to January 2011. So, 20
times as much change in that single year as between 1999, when
the Internet really started in full swing, to 2011. So we're in this
Time Acceleration Matrix.
Exopolitics is a science, and as a science of relations between our
human civilization and other intelligent civilizations in the
universe, provides a framework of interface by which our
civilization, on a societal basis, can begin to interface with other
extraterrestrial and interdimensional civilizations.
One can say when positing the future that the degree of conscious
interaction and cooperation amongst human society and advanced
ethical extraterrestrial civilizations will be a determining factor in
a positive human future.
Right now, there appears by the evidence to be a long-standing
strategic relationship between the Martian civilization and the
human civilization – at least in terms of U.S. bases on Mars, and
Martians openly working in Hughes Aircraft, as we have
witnesses of that.
My colleague, Andrew Basiago, in 1971, in the company of his
father, who was a CIA contractor, met three Martian astronauts at
Curtis-Wright Field in New Jersey, who were visiting on a liaison
mission.
So, our task now is to make all of that which is occurring in the
covert world – in the subconscious, as it were – to bring it into
public light. That's part of the survival mechanism, and
Exopolitics is the conceptual structure that makes that possible.
412
In fact, we can say that Exopolitics may function as the new
survival science for humanity.
Here [slide] we have, for example, a crop circle pattern that
seems to be the same spiral pattern as our Milky Way Galaxy,
suggesting that many of these concepts are being played for us in
a multi-dimensional way.
[slide] This is the Time Acceleration Matrix for galactic
alignment. Dr. Carl Johan Calleman and Barbara Hand Clow
have developed this, and it begins to show by going through
various eras of human history how time accelerates. For each of
these periods, there is 20 times as much change in the next
period.
For example, in the National Period from 3115 BC to 1755 AD…
well, in the next period starting just before the French
Revolution, the American Revolution, etcetera, up to the
beginning of the Internet… well, in the Planetary Period there's
20 times as much change as there was during the National.
And when we go to the Galactic Period, from January 1999 to
February 2011, that's when all these thoughts of the Galaxy start
coming. Humanity goes Galactic. We have all this interest in
Battlestar Galactica; everyone becomes interested in
extraterrestrial issues, on a planetary basis.
Well, that's all coming from the Galactic Center black hole and
from the emanations at the universal level. There's 20 times as
much change there as there was during the Planetary Period in
terms of bringing us up to a frequency and knowledge and
information and cognitive basis to be able to participate as
citizens of a multi-dimensional, highly-organized, and populated
universe.
And that's just a prelude to the Universal Era, which starts at the
beginning of 2011 in terms of the broadcast. Now, some people
may be right on the broadcast. You know, we each interpret it
according to our individual transducers which are in our brains
and in our minds and in our extended bodies. If we look at what
the Mayan calendar is, then, it's really a mind-map. It's not a
calendar where you want to keep time; it's a mind-map because it
maps what sorts of things humanity is going to have on its mind
at any particular time.
And 2011 and 2012 is just the start of the Universal era on Earth.
Those are the signals that are being broadcast from the Galactic
Center black hole, which the Mayans called Hunab-Ku.
Now, if we just look, for example, at the Galactic Period, which
started in 1999, that's when the center of the Galaxy started
broadcasting the whole, the Galactic... Well, if you look at the
year 1999, that's when the first book Exopolitics was written [by
the speaker], because that’s what’s happening. [laughs] Those
were the signals being broadcast by the Galaxy. So all of this is
kind of coming out in a "matrix" way.
I have just a few copies of this that I managed to smuggle
through U.S. Customs down to here for those who'd like to buy
it... not smuggle. You can't bring books through on the aircraft,
but I said that they were pamphlets. [laughter] So, there you go.
[slide of chart titled Time Acceleration Matrix] Then we had the
first scholarly conference on Exopolitics in the year 2000 and we
had other scholars come in.
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By the year 2003, that's when the first nation-state, Mexico,
began to disclose its UFO/extraterrestrial files in earnest.
In 2004 and 2005, that’s when Brazil, Peru, and Chile began to
disclose. The former deputy prime minister of Canada, Paul
Hellyer, gave a speech then in which he said: Oh, UFO's are as
real as the airplanes over your head and the U.S. government is
planning to try to start an intergalactic war, so we have to do
something about it.
In the beginning of 2006, the Associated Press reported that
Exopolitics had been nominated for Word of the Year for 2005.
So, we begin to get into the culture... these memes begin to get
into the culture – these survival memes.
In 2007, we had the Chicago/O’Hare sighting. France and the
United Kingdom disclosed their UFO files.
We had the former Governor of Arizona say that: Yes, the
spacecraft which was a mile on a side which flew over Phoenix,
Arizona, on March 13, 1997 was an extraterrestrial spacecraft
and I'm sorry I did what I did and try to cover it up! [laughs]
That happened in 2006.
In the beginning of 2007... we could go into the Chicago/O’Hare
sighting. This is very interesting. Just to make it brief: a 60-foot
UFO came down at United Gate C-17 at Chicago/O’Hare Airport
(I’ve been to that gate) about 4:00 in the afternoon. It was
witnessed by the plane, the ground crew, the tower; the FAA got
involved, and it was all over the major media. It came down there
on November 7, 2006.
There’s a theory which we wrote about, about 20 years ago,
called the Context Communication Theory of Extraterrestrial
Communications, which is that all UFOs are like dreams –
they’re communication from a higher intelligent source. They’re
like dreams of communications from your subconscious to your
conscious.
Well, November 7, 2006... what day was that? That was the U.S.
mid-term election in which the Neocons lost control of both
houses of Congress. And I was a civil liberties lawyer, you know,
working in that field also, and, you know, a police state was
about to take over in the U.S.
In fact, that sighting on mid-term election day was when the shift
happened in both houses of Congress, and with the election then
in 2008 which also brought about the collapse of the old financial
structure during what’s called The Fifth Night of the Galactic
Underworld.
In other words, all of these – the collapse of the economic
structure – is because things that are hierarchal and are based on
control and are not sustainable are being all collapsed now
because that’s the programming coming out from the Galactic
Center black hole. So it’s all happening according to a large
schedule.
Now, we’re apparently in the Sixth Day, from November ’08 to
November ’09, of the Galactic Underworld.
What happened on December 12, 2008? That’s when the
discovery of life on Mars happened in the NASA photographs of
the NASA rover, Spirit, which is on the surface of Mars. It
photographed humanoids, animals, structures on Mars. And you
413
can go to www.exopolitics.com and see scientific papers – there
are over 40 documents. They’re all free to download.
So all of this is what’s happening according to the drivers behind
the universe at the galactic level and at the universe level. So, it’s
ALL GOOD! [loud and with emphasis]
[applause]
And so, we can look forward to more Disclosure. We can look
forward to more positive things occurring as the old structures
collapse. The thing is not to identify and suffer for the old
structures.
Now, what are some of the positive outcomes?
Well, Spottiswoode [James P. Spottiswoode]… and here I want
to acknowledge the research and insights of David Wilcock, who
has provided a lot of the energy and insights for looking at how
these processes are resulting in a positive future.
[slide] For example, Spottiswoode, a psychologist / researcher
from Palo Alto, California… each day at that time of the day
when we’re most aligned with Galactic Center – and you can see
the spike on the graph there – our psychic ability increases 400
percent. So, the more we’re aligned with the Galactic Center
black hole, and the Galactic Center, and the universe axis, the
more psychic we are, the more we are in change. I’ve done
meditation exercises where I meditate on the Galactic Center. I
mean, you know, [laughs] that’s where it’s coming from.
[laughter] As David Wilcock has said: The energy of the Galaxy
is directly tied in with the evolution of the human species by
raising its level of consciousness. This is coming as with the
certainty as the streams flow.
Now, one of the mechanisms is DNA activation, and Peter
Gariaev – scientist Dr. Peter Gariaev – was able to transform a
frog embryo into a salamander by shining a laser through the
salamander embryo and re-directing it into the frog embryo, and
the frog DNA transformed into a salamander.
At the Galactic level, that's what’s occurring now. The Galactic
Center black hole is the analog to the laser, and we're being
transformed at the DNA level, so the more that we open
ourselves up to that, the easier nature can take its course. The
Galactic Centers contain the pattern to transform all DNA on the
planet and they provide a sufficiently large source of energy to
enable the transformation to take place. That's David Wilcock
expressing that realization.
[slide] It's even occurring at the Galactic level, and if we look at
that, that looks like a two-strand DNA. Correct?
Well, if you look at that, it's the DNA Nebula, which is 80 light-
years long and 300 light-years from the Galactic Center black
hole. This is the first time that the DNA double helix, commonly
seen inside living organisms, has been observed in the cosmos. In
other words, our Galaxy is a living organism.
So, these changes are happening at the Galactic level, and we can
take what's called the transposition burst as a plausible
mechanism by which the Galactic Burst can activate our DNA,
which is proved in the Gariaev experiment with the laser. So now
we have a model for this.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Kelleher calls the outcome of this product a light-body, which is
what's been described as the dimensional existence of the upper-
dimensional ethical extraterrestrials. We're in more and more
refined energy bodies.
[slide] So, what is the boundary? 2011, 2013, 2012? These are
boundaries in which these mechanisms of transposition bursts
from the Galactic Center are happening. And they are happening
now.
Dr. John Jay Harper talks about that 97 percent of our DNA is
now considered junk DNA and it's that DNA which is being
activated. So, we're receiving an upgrade from the inside –
Humans Version 2.0! [laughter] Endogenous DMT produced in
our brains could also bring about what some people call a
collective near-death experience that may occur... these are some
of the factors that may occur. We'll have a collective near-death
experience and really go up into our light-bodies, our extended
bodies, as a species... That will be an interesting one!
So, endogenous DMT can be posited as a purveyor of the
transformed consciousness.
AW: We're almost at the end. This is slide 53 of about 60 slides,
so the bulk of the information has been transmitted – and of the
insight. [applause]
KC: Okay. We would be glad to give Alfred a couple of minutes
to actually sum up the presentation, if you'd like to do so.
AW: Sure. Well, that we are coming into and we are in an era of
tremendous opportunity which is occurring, regardless of our
individual thoughts.
So it makes good sense, if one is in resistance, to change one’s
thoughts and to really tune into what's occurring at the Galactic
and universal levels, which is part of a universe program to allow
us to come into the Universal Age which we KNOW, by people
who have gone to the future, physically, and come back... is
going to be on our planet by the year 2045 or 2050, which is just
40 years away. So it's a positive future that's coming.
I'll be here... I'll be in the back... I've brought some copies of the
book Exopolitics which founded this whole field, and if you want
more information, please stay tuned to www.exopolitics.com.

KC: I'm very sorry, we are at a little past 12:30. There's not any Thank you! [applause]
more time to go any further into this.
KC: There are some fascinating areas that could be investigated
AW: Okay. further that he’s been touching on and some of that information is
available from our whistleblowers on Project Camelot.
KC: What we can do is, Alfred, you will make your presentation
perhaps available to people so that they can follow up on the final We have another recent interview that talks about the Galactic
pages? Superwave. Paul LaViolette is the scientist responsible for that
concept and he’s done a lot of investigation. We visited him in
AW: Yeah. Sure. Greece and did a recent interview. We’ve yet to edit it; we’ve
been so busy, but I just wanted to let you know that that is in the
KC: I'm not sure how far along we are. area, some of which Alfred was referring to.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

414
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Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Marcia Schafer Lecture Transcript
19 September 2009

MS: Okay. Well, thank you all for coming and thank you for
having me. When Kerry first invited me, I said: You know, I’m
not really so sure I should be here. I’m really not a
whistleblower, I don’t do conspiracy.

AND SHE SAID: No, no, no, we want you to be a part of this.

SO I SAID: All right, I’ll give it a shot.

So with that we were supposed to put in our biographies and our

[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
pictures, and I’ve got to tell you I got a little bit upset because I
didn’t get it in on time and Kerry and Bill went into the old
archives and pulled something themselves. And I just thought it
was totally inappropriate, but I’m going to let you folks decide as
we begin to talk about metamorphosis.
So this is what they put up of me and my bio [shows slide of a
picture taken behind her] [audience laughter] Marcia tried to
rekindle her modeling career, but sadly in the intervening years
everything had gotten a bit pear-shaped. [audience laughter]
So I learned to be on time with my stuff! [laughs]

Kerry Cassidy (KC): Marcia Schafer herself is a contactee and a

Okay. What I’m going to start with is an old Vedic saying. Well,
very gifted intuitive; she has amazing gifts and information to
all right, it’s not an old Vedic saying; I got it on the Internet. But
share with you from her contacts.
still it’s good and it’s worth sharing. It’s a story about the Bull
and the Crow. You may have heard it, but it’s worth repeating,
She’s written one book, Confessions of an Intergalactic particularly here and today. [showing a slide of the bull and the
Anthropologist, and it’s available on her website which is crow]
www.beyondzebra.com.
There was the bull in a meadow that was watching an old crow
I’ve read her book. It’s a fascinating book; it’s well worth the stumble along and he saw that the crow had no energy and was
time. I encourage you to read it. It’s a lovely, lovely book. She’s really struggling.
actually an old soul and I have to say that I know her from other
lives.
HE WALKED OVER TO THE CROW AND HE SAID: Crow,
come here. I know how to fix what’s wrong with you.
Anyway, this is Marcia Schafer. She’s also Bob Dean’s partner
and I’m not supposed to say that in the lead, I know, [Marcia
THE CROW LOOKED UP AT THE BULL AND SAID: What?
laughs] so I’m saying it at the end of my introduction... I want
you to take note, Marcia Schafer.
AND HE SAID: You just have to do what I say and you have to
do it for three days straight.
She is also an executive... I’m not sure how you’d term it, maybe
an executive coach. I’m going to let her characterize that herself.
THE CROW LOOKED UP AT HIM AND HE SAID: Well...
okay.
Speak to me, Marcia, and let’s make sure that your mic is
working.
AND THE BULL LOOKED DOWN AND HE SAID: All right.
You’ve got to eat that.
Marcia Schafer (MS): Hello everybody! [applause]

THE CROW LOOKED UP AT THE BULL AND SAID: You’re

KC: Okay, Marcia, I’ll let you take it from here.
kidding me, right?

415
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THE BULL SAID: No, crow, you must... for three days straight.
CROW SAID: I am so not eating your poo, Bull!
BULL LOOKED DOWN AND SAID: Do you want to get
better? You must do it.
SO THE CROW SAID: I’m dying anyway -- what have I got to
lose?
For three days he ate the feces from the bull, and at the end of
three days, you know what? The crow got strong and he was able
to fly once again to the highest trees.
So he took off and he landed in this huge pine tree and right
below him, unbeknownst to him as he landed on the branch,
along came a hunter.
THE HUNTER HAPPENED TO LOOK UP, SEE THE CROW,
GOES: I hate those damn crows.
POW! Shot the crow...
And the moral of the story: Bullshit can take you to the top, but it
can’t keep you there. [audience laughter]
And I thought that there’re so many people crowing about so
much bullshit these days that that was the perfect thing to open
up with. [audience laughter]
So I mean, look, everybody is nervous these days. You’re hearing
all this talk about 2012 and this old Mayan legacy that’s been left
to us, and people are scared that Armageddon is just around the
corner.
Earth changes – Should I head for the hills? Where should I go?
Is there going to be water, food? Where should I take my family?
People are giving you all their channeled information and their
channeled prophesies and telling you that This is the truth and we
must do what I am saying because it’s coming from beyond.
Extraterrestrial invasions – People are telling you that all sorts of
things are about to unfold with extraterrestrials. So Kerry was
trying to tell you what I do. I’m actually a business consultant of
a very unusual type, because I also use my psychic abilities and
my experiences with extraterrestrial contact with people in over
30 countries, helping them become humanitarian pioneers.
But I tell you, by the time they come to me they usually look like
this... [shows slide of a man freaking out, hands on the sides of
his face, screaming] from everything that’s going on. [audience
laughter] It’s a tough road for them to take.
So as we begin to talk about things, what’s really important to me
today and one of the biggest messages I can give you is that we
have to talk about: What is truth? Because everybody tries to
give you their version of truth. You know, who has the authority
to say that they have the only version of it?
416
Your job as you listen to each of us... just because we’re up here
doesn’t mean anything, and especially me. I have lived the life
I’m about to tell you about and had the experiences I’m about to
tell you about. I know they’re real because I went through it. You
don’t know me from Adam; you don’t know that.
You have got to develop your discretionary abilities to a very,
very high level and just listen to everything and synthesize it into
what may make sense to you as we go forward.
Just because you think an extraterrestrial may be the source, or
some channeled angel, doesn’t necessarily make it the barometer
by which you should live your lives. So question me in particular
and just look at it as a particular journey.
You’ve all had extraordinary experiences or been exposed to
them to some degree or you wouldn’t be spending $150 bucks for
this weekend, I can assure you of that; so you know that a lot of
this stuff is going to be commonplace to some of you. But I just
can’t stress enough how important it is that you all really just put
on your truth barometer and figure out what’s right for you.
So, what my job is, is to teach you to think smartly because
thinking smartly is a hybrid approach and it is using both the
intellect (the cognitive processes), and the wisdom of your
intuitive knowing.
This may sound like some very nice New Age preachiness, but in
my work with people, as I’m turning them on to putting on their
higher switches, this is something that we really get into because
in the human condition it’s extraordinarily unique.
The cognitive functioning, the intellectual reasoning that you
have... when you combine that with your eternal Soul-Mind and
your eternal Soul-Knowing, you have a very, very powerful tool
to decipher reality, but we don’t flicker them on together all the
time – we use them separately, or one at the exclusion of the
other. So I want you to be thinking with your head and your heart
at all times.
Now, as we begin, we really need to be looking at... we’re talking
about... God, you know, the change, and all these things
happening.
Are these changing times right now? To some degree, yes, they
are, but we’ve had change happening throughout history, but
what’s unique is that we’ve had change at an unprecedented
level, particularly over the past 50, 100 years.
Now, we’ve had beautiful green environments and healthy living,
and we’ve turned around and we’ve trashed it to where our
lifestyles are so polluted worldwide. Our food chain is tainted
beyond belief. Our breathing is fouled by the stench of horribly
putrid air, and everything that we touch, basically, is not in a very
good spot.
But we’re talking about, this weekend, change on an
unprecedented level that everybody’s thinking that this amazing
thing is going to be happening, and happening very soon.
So is there really any change that’s going on for us? Yes, I’d say
there is. I mean, you’ve got to make up your own minds. I know
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a lot of you already believe it, but I’d say there is and that it’s on
three levels.
Now as I said, I’m working with people in over 30 countries.
These are not people who you’ll necessarily see to your left and
your right at a conference like this. These are everyday people
who are beginning to have some very profound things happen to
them that they are waking up to a new degree. They’re having
paranormal experiences. Some are having extraterrestrial contact.
And these are people that are in... you know, whether they’re a
judge, a lawyer, an executive, a head of an agency, a doctor, a
biochemical researcher, a housewife bringing up six kids, you
know, a college student. I’ve worked with people from 9 to 93.
One of my favorites is the 93-year-old. She sends me the dirtiest
stuff on the Internet, I just can’t believe it! [laughs] She’s a hoot!
But she’s extremely aware and she actually had a very prestigious
occupation in her life.
So something is going on in personal change because we’ve
come from a very strong emphasis of getting more stuff – you
know, going to Macy’s, they’re having a sale on Saturday – to
really taking time out to find that inner focus and what is actually
important to us.
We’re also seeing change on a social level. There are a lot of
things happening where... are the majority of people still going
about, not going paying attention? You betcha. But there is a
tremendous stream of awakening happening in everyday life, in
every society, where people are again beginning to look at things
very differently.
And you hear so much about the young. There’re still the same
old kids doing the same old things that we did, but some of these
youngsters are extremely wise and extremely aware, and are
talking about things that I just never talked about when I was
young and most of my friends didn’t either.
They’re looking at life with very sage, elder eyes. They know
what they want to do; they feel like they have a purpose to their
life. At eight years old they’re going out and starting businesses
and beginning to do new things.
But as we look at all this change, again I want to remind you that
we’ve always had change. You know, there was time where we
would see the Vikings come in on the shore and go: Holy cow!
Sound the alarm! We’d be afraid of the loss of our civilization
and what was happening. This is just another phase in our
development.
But there’s another aspect to change. There’s planetary change.
We’re looking at things around us on the environment.
I was really shocked to see the THIS [shows slide of the front
page of the NY Times] on the New York Times, August 9th, this
headline... some of you may have seen it. Front page: Climate
change. Now, not only is it climate change, look what’s below:
Seen as threat to US security. Pentagon studies issue. Crisis may
destabilize regions and require military action.
WHOA!!! You know? [laughs] That’s something you’d think
you’d see on Project Camelot! [laughs] So people are paying
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attention to some degree to the planetary change, even though
some still try to deny it.
But what is going on with this global warming? And is it
something that’s happening here on the planet or is it something
that could be further on beyond? Because we tend to stop when
we think about things, and we tend to think about our direct
parameters around us and the world.
But what is going on out there in that unseen vast void of the
universe? We think of the world like this.... [shows slide of a
normal-looking Earth, then a slide showing electromagnetic
fields around the Earth] But there’s all kind of fields and
properties around the planet that we really don’t pay much
attention to that we need to be taking a look at that could be
influencing us from beyond the borders of our planet, and what’s
going on.
But at the fundamental heart of this metamorphosis and this
change that’s taking place is something that’s a little bit different
now, and it’s not necessarily a 2012 prophecy. It’s not necessarily
extraterrestrial visitation.
It’s something very, very obvious and in front of us, and what is
changing are the perspectives that people have. We are now able
to look at things very differently because life has changed around
us, so we have new tools of interpretation.
When I first came out, I think it was 12, 13 years ago, to publicly
talk about having a lifetime of extraterrestrial contact and what I
learned, there was still a bit of trepidation on behalf of people.
There were those people who said: Yeah, I think it’s probably
true. I want to hear what she has to say, and there was still a
great degree of people who didn’t want to hear anything.
But now the majority of people are saying: Well, you know, I
haven’t had those experiences myself but I think it’s probably
quite likely that it’s out there, because we’ve got media, we’ve
got technology, we have all kinds of tools to help us reinterpret
reality and what we’ve got going on around us.
So we still have two camps. We have people who are looking at
things that [have] perspectives from the conventional eyes: the
economy, finances, mortgage institutions, politics, relationships,
powerbrokers, technology.
But then we have people like who are looking at [an]
unconventional world in terms of what is it that science doesn’t
tell us? What is really going on with space and solar activity?
What’s happening out there with cosmic radiation and how does
it affect us? I mean, for gosh sakes, if a Sun, an orb billions of
years away, can turn my skin brown, then obviously if there’s
radiation fields and activity out there that I’m not aware of; it can
influence me, and influence me at depths and levels I’m not
aware of.
We’re redefining extraterrestrial reality. So many of you are
having your own experiences, and we’ve heard different
interpretations about human evolution and who we are and who
we’ve been.
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Consciousness is taking a radical new leap as we’re looking at it
beyond Freud, beyond Jung, and into some new levels and some
new depths as you’re exploring who you are and what you can
do; and certainly the historical redacts of looking at our history
on this planet of who we’ve been and who we can be.
Quality of life is taking precedence over some other things that
are there, like making money and having a 401K.
And most importantly, there is a huge flow of your paranormal
skill-set being turned on within a subgroup of the population. It’s
not happening with everybody, but it’s happening with quite a
few, as you know in your own experiences that you’re able to
see, know, and hear things and have extra abilities that were once
relegated to Jeane Dixon and just a few who were out there.
So what am I doing with all of this information that has been
given to me? Because, as Kerry said, I’ve had, as some of you
may know, kind of an odd lifetime and I’ve had the opportunity
to learn a lot of information – not from books, not from going to
conferences – but from extraterrestrials and entities who aren’t
native to our planet.
Now I’ll tell you, if I hadn’t had these experiences myself, I’d be
looking at that woman up there and going: She’s whacked; I just
can’t relate. But when they become personalized, then there’s no
doubt about it, about what happened. And so I’ve had a very
unconventional curriculum.
Some of the things that I’m going to briefly touch on today in the
time that we have are: I’ve been introduced to the soul life as a
primary underlying force of our existence and being made to
understand that there is something more than just who we are.
I’ve met “the family” in terms of many different species and
races out there.
I’ve been introduced to some new things about genetics,
consciousness, looked at history in a way that hasn’t quite been
looked at before.
And most importantly, that has given me the understanding of
what we’ve done a lot here on Earth and why we don’t
understand things, is a new interpretation of what we call time-
space.
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This is all leading up to what I have been taught is that... what the
future can be and that the future isn’t set in stone.
And so what I’ve done is I am planting seeds of people around
the world rather than saying: Buy my book; read my book; oh I
want to get on Oprah. Trust me, I do not want to get on Oprah
and I don’t want anybody reading my book. It does not belong in
Costco or any place like that.
So, you know, I’ve decided to work with people on an individual
basis in giving them the seeds and the skills and the talent that
they need to be successful, to go forward and flower a new life.
Now obviously, in the little amount of time we have, I can’t
cover all those things but I’m going to try to emphasize the soul
life, our futures, and planting seeds, along with some of these
other things.
Now, you know when it comes to extraterrestrial reality, it’s kind
of, for those of you who haven’t had the direct contact, there’s
kind of that “Let’s do lunch” kind of attitude towards it.
I get people calling me up or leaving messages saying: Can you
arrange... it’s almost like Match.com... Can you arrange for me
to meet with an extraterrestrial, with a list of attributes that it’s
like I’m running a dating service. [laughter] It doesn’t work that
way! It doesn’t work that way at all.
You know, there are so many different races out there that
unfortunately we tend to get confined to the beliefs that are fed to
us by the media. So we’re used to the little Grays, you know,
some channeled information about reptilians, but don’t be limited
to that. There are many, many different life-forms out there, some
with classical types of civilizations and cultures, and some who
are way beyond that.
The slides that you’re looking at now, these are life forms from
here. [showing slide of strange sea creatures] This is life from the
ocean. Now, tell me if that’s not strange! You know, how can we
kind of look at what’s out there and say: Gosh it just doesn’t fit
into my paradigm of reality?
We have all different types of life, and as I’m going to hit on in a
little bit, that it’s all sentient, and what I’ve learned – it’s all
conscious. Because as I’ve learned through my contacts with
extraterrestrials, they also opened up my capacity to
communicate with the animal world and to realize how
sophisticated they are and what they have going on.
So as we look at life that’s around us, we can’t really say that this
is really that much more strange.
Now, I think we need to talk a little bit about their
communication and what they have to say because this is really
important. What I want to do is I want to give you some benefit
of the wisdom that I’ve gained from working with a lot of
different races.
I think there’s a joke in the universe – you know, it’s kind of like
“How does the chicken cross the road?” “How do you get a
human to do anything?” [laughter] The answer is play to his ego,
tell him he’s special, he’s an ambassador; we’ll give him any
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appointment he wants... he’ll do anything we want. And this is so
true.
You’ve so often seen people who’ve been so enamored of
having... whether it’s a channeled situation or they’ve had a
contact face-to-face situation, and they get some information.
They go running out, they want to be on a talk radio show or they
want to be in the media and: We’re going to have contact at 3 pm
on August 12. It will be a meteor going by, and if you look really
hard, you’ll see them. Over and over again, it never happens.
And so what I have found, whether we like it or not, I feel that
there’s almost like a fraternity hazing that goes on with some of
us who have this type of situation. Because when you find you
don’t necessarily fall into that, and you question what’s going on,
and you try to wake up your cognitive processing as you’re in
this sometimes fugue state as you’re with them, they gain... they
give you respect when you act a little differently and you show
you’re independent and you don’t necessarily fall in line.
In my situation what I encountered was all of a sudden I began to
receive some very advanced teachings about life, reality, humans
– what I call “the wisdom track”, and I felt very privileged to be
able to get that.
So when you have the privilege of having an extraterrestrial
encounter experience, what I want you to know is that you can
often fall into a type of fugue state. It’s like your Soul-Mind is
coming on and becoming active, but you need to keep that
intellectual process open, and keep your cognitive mind on and
question, and not just accept things as they come to you. And
that’s going to really make a difference.
You know, think about it. It’s like when our researchers work
with gorillas, and you’ve heard of Koko, the famous signing
gorilla. If you walk in and you’re starting to work with Koko and
all of a sudden, she doesn’t just say: Red ball, she says: I want
carrot cake for dinner, you’re going to go: Whoa! I can go to a
whole new level with this being and you can teach her at a more
sophisticated level.
And really, folks, that’s what it’s like sometimes with us, is that
when you go to a new level, they do too.
Okay, what I want to do is share with you some of the messages
that they often bring because now I’ve now told you to question
their messages, but what are some of the ones that they can
share?
You hear from everybody who has had contact, they’ll talk a lot
of times about environmental concerns. Sometimes they’ll have
very personal messages for people.
But one of the things that happened to me after over five decades
of contact is when I was in my 40s, I had a very, very profound
and very different visit that changed my life.
It was one week after what many of you here may know as the
Phoenix Lights that happened on March 13, 1997. I live in
Phoenix and I really didn’t pay any attention to them, even
though they happened over my house, but I had a contact visit a
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week later where they made reference to that and they let me
know that they had been there.
But what they had, as I’m going to distill it down, it was a very
profound, very long visit, but I’m going to distill it down to three
particular messages, knowing that they have entrained me to
understand that the future is nothing more than a probability... the
future is mutable.
They have helped me to understand, and this is so important for
all of us, that the future can be whatever we will it and want it to
be. That’s why we have to behave so differently and become
empowered.
They talked about three things. They did talk about that there was
going to be what they called “a Triune Setting,” [this term is the
best that we understood it to be] that at some point in the future...
And I’ve got to stop and tell you, you know, this drives me nuts,
because... the future... What? Next Thursday? 3012? You know,
time is different to them; they never really pin it down.
But at some time in the future that there was going to be what
they referred to as a “Portal Opening” that would have great
significance for us.
Now, I don’t really, you know, get very involved in the 2012
phenomenon; I’m very involved in today and just moving
forward. But I wonder because there’s such a great astrological
configuration happening on that date that everybody’s talking
about, if that’s what they were referring to.
But at some point they said this really does have significance
because it’s an opening in and out of our Galaxy and our
particular place in the universe that has meaning, and it doesn’t
happen but very rarely, in probably thousands and thousands of
years.
They also made reference to that in our time there was supposed
to be the discovery of records that would reveal a very different
history on our planet. They showed me pictures of what I thought
were the Egyptian pyramids and the Sphinx and that area, and
they said that when these are revealed there will be no refuting
the history of the extraterrestrial legacy.
I can’t imagine what would be on it because you can refute
anything and just say that it’s myth and story and culture. But
they said that there was something there.
I’ll tell you, since that happened over ten years ago when that
particular visit happened, I also now wonder something very
differently about this. I wonder if, actually, this may not be
Egypt, but it may actually be a part of the ancient Atlantean lands
that are down by Bermuda and Florida being able to rise up and
have some of these monoliths on them. It’s just a thought that
I’ve had.
The third thing they said is something that they don’t want to
have happen, and at that time they were very, very concerned
about a nuclear detonation going off in what seemed to be the
Middle East region. So far, ten, twelve years later, we’re doing
good. It hasn’t gone off.
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But what they said was that it’s going to be a very naive situation
should the nuclear detonation take place, because that there’s a
major fault-line and if it does it’s going to trigger this and
therefore it’s going to affect the quality of life... For everyone on
your planet, and it won’t be contained to a particular singular
region like you saw when you detonated the bomb before.
So these are the nature of some of the messages and some of the
things that they can tell you and share with you.
Now, I’m saying this because are these true? I don’t know. I find
them fascinating. I find them interesting and I’m very proud that
I’ve had the privilege to hear them from them. But I also know
that it doesn’t mean that any of them are necessarily going to
happen, that they’re potentials for our future that can have greater
bearing on us and what comes to fall for us.
The other thing they shared... and I know I’m going fast but I
only have so much time and so I’ll be available later to go into
greater depth of all these things... is that they told me about our
past in a very different way.
What they did is they said that: Yes, you were a genetically-
altered species... and I learned about this way before any of this
came out into the New Age culture. They said that: It’s a little
different than you think, though.
They taught me about Zecharia Sitchin, who many of you have
heard of, before I was even aware of who the man was. They told
me to go explore his work because they said he’s very close to
what it was.
And they said after I explored it, that: You’re a hybrid race, but
it’s not just that you had this Anunnaki coming here who created
you.
They said: What it is, is you’re actually a mixture of twelve
genetic strains of what we would call extraterrestrial DNA and
that when the life-form was tinkered with, it wasn’t one cultural
life-form overlaying its presence, it was a genetic mixture.
They went into some very interesting details about it with the
science that was used where what I call harmonic or sonic
resonance was used to... This may sound like total meta-poop; I
know, because I have scientific background, but it’s interesting
so I’m going to share it.
They said that a sonic resonance... they used actually sound
frequency when they were doing the genetic tinkering to get the
strains to gel and to work with each other.
So what all this does is it allows us to look at what we know with
new eyes and to think: Well, maybe; that definitively could be.
And hopefully what it will do is will eventually entrain
conventional traditional science, the renegades who are working
within the fringe, to start looking along these new lines.
Because we know that it’s not a question of Darwinism or
Creationism – both have aspects and flaws within them – that it’s
something else, and it’s probably not just a third alternative but
multiple. And when you look at extraterrestrial presence on this
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planet and the fact that there was probably genetic tinkering, it
certainly seems to make a lot of sense to me.
What is really intriguing to me is how they went about all of this,
and the way that they gave me this really new curriculum. It
wasn’t necessarily sitting down in a lecturing situation; it was a
lifetime of experiences that I had that I couldn’t synthesize and
didn’t realize that they were all coming together to have a
focused meaning until I was in my 30s, and I’d been going
through this since I was in the crib.
What they did was they actually took me to experience certain
things where I would actually be taken and I’d be witnessing... I
don’t know whether it was a hologram or a point in space-time
that was in the past, but I’d be witnessing and looking at a group
of workers who were working under another race. I now later
realize they were showing me that man actually had been used
for some slave potential on this planet and had been harnessed for
his capacity to help... well, “help” is a generous word, isn’t it?...
to help another species.
So the point is that it’s not what you expect. It’s not like going to
Starbucks and it’s not like just sitting down and they teach you,
but they can have a very unique process to get you to understand
a new system of reality and a new way of thinking, and it can be
very, very experiential.
So those are just some of the things that I have been through with
them.
What I’m most interested now is not really what’s going on with
me, but what’s going on with the culture and the way that we’re
trying to get this out.
If you look at [shows slide with cowboys, Daniel Boon-types…
and ETs ]... I love this ad from New Mexico. The New Mexican
tourist industry got a lot of flack for this: The best place in the
Universe, New Mexico, Earth. And if you look closely, you see
that they’ve integrated the extraterrestrial persona of their state in
there, which I think is very intriguing.
And if you go along now and you go into the modern culture,
people, as I said, are really accepting more and more of what’s
out there. Am I’m going crazy? Was this place Korean just last
week? [audience laughter] [shows slide of a cartoon of confused
shoppers in a little, formerly-Korean-run store] You know, this is
pretty much what we’re looking at and what we’re facing.
Okay. So you know, as I mentioned before, what for me has been
really beneficial about the extraterrestrial contact is that it’s given
me new insights into not just human behavior, but something
bigger. It’s given me insights into where humanity fits within
other species. You know, because in some ways, we are just
those crazy flesh-eating mammals with herd-like tendencies, and
we tend to forget that. We tend to put ourselves at the top of the
apex so that we’re the ultimate supreme species and we’re a
deity.
What I’ve learned through how extraterrestrials communicate...
because they use holographic processes. They will often send an
image to you that has an accompaniment of instant knowing, and
that this goes on in the animal world too.
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Inter-species communication is somewhat universal, and human
beings use language, and ordered thought processes, that does not
seem to be communal to the rest of what is out there.
When we begin to penetrate into the species that are here beside
us and the animal kingdom and understand how sophisticated
their thought processes are and how much they know of what
goes on... that they have their own cultures and relationships with
each other, and they’re not that different from us... it allows us to
integrate better with the concept of extraterrestrial reality.
Because I tell you, people are much more likely – not you, but
the average person – is much more comfortable looking at the
fuzzy little animal (on the top) that talks [showing slide of a pair
of house cats] than extraterrestrial reality and since I do both, let
me tell you, the ordinary people like the fuzzy little animals a lot
better.
So what you’ll learn and what the power of us... And love what
Gandhi had said. You know, people put it at the end of their
Internet messages, that: The moral fiber of a nation is judged by
how it treats its animals, or something like that.
That really is at the underpinning of our moving forward, is
understanding that we are a collaborative species, that humans
are not cut out apart the way that we set ourselves to, that we
have to understand that we’re one of a multiple order, and that
order... well, it goes off into the space realms... has to start right
here at home. We have to start paying better attention to what
goes on -- on the planet and how we are treating our animals.
Now, I said I had an interesting curriculum. One of the very
profound things that they started early with was the concept of
reincarnation.
Now, much of the world... if you ask any Buddhist they say:
Sure, no problem; got it, its part of our culture. The Western
world still has a problem with this. Reincarnation is something
that, while there is a lot of different type of evidence for it, can’t
always necessarily be proved empirically.
But what they did with me is, starting when I was 12, 13, 14
years old, they would come at night and I’d be pulled out and I
would sit there and I would watch myself in these different
existences. I would watch and I would see myself as...
I was a tall thin black man in ancient Africa who was swept upon
a leopard and became part of the food chain. I saw myself as a
slave in ancient Egypt – I looked down at my feet and I saw the
hard ground that I slept on and the straw. I saw myself as being
buried alive with a man who was my husband because I was part
of his property.
All these things where I was dying and had left my body, because
they were trying to get across the idea that we have an eternal
soul and that they needed me to know not to be afraid, that no
matter what happened in this lifetime, that wasn’t it; it’s a part of
the journey.
And with that, I was able to go forward and tackle life with a
very different perspective than if I had been terrified and afraid:
Oh, I’m going to die. We’re all going to die. We just don’t know
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when, you know, and we’re born, we’ve lived, we’ve died time
and time again. We just don’t tend to remember it.
When it comes to reincarnation, what I think is so important
about it is that not only does it remind us of the eternalness of our
being, but it allows us to sometimes look at life with some new
eyes and provide some different answers.
One of the things that I was left with is the ability to look at
somebody and I can immediately see their Soul and I can see the
trail of the reincarnations that they’ve had.
Now, a lot of people say: Oh, we shouldn’t get caught up in it; we
belong in the here and now. I agree in that wholeheartedly, but
sometimes it gives us different eyes to look at things differently.
A woman I worked with just a few weeks ago and as I talked to
her and explained to her the most prominent series of visions
around her was one in the 1800s in England and how she was
involved in the early labor union development, and how the smog
and the soot just assailed her and she couldn’t stand it; and she
was so frustrated by what was happening with the businesses and
how they were taking advantage of the people at that time.
At the end she laughed and she said: Well, I’m not so sure there’s
anything to this or not but I actually got my Masters degree in
studying labor law in England and I have a real issue with the
pollution.
And you will see that there are commonalities and carryovers and
tie-ins. Usually the lives that surround you now are often the
leftover issues that we’re still dealing with that we’ve pulled
together. And if you can pull it together with your soul purpose
and go forward and integrate it into your life as you move
forward, then you work-life can become your life-work.
So for me the experience of working with the extraterrestrials,
and the whole journey of reincarnation, had a real profound
impact because it wasn’t just about my journey, but it was about
working with other peoples’ journeys, too.
So, yeah, we can’t get caught up in it. It doesn’t really matter if
you were Genghis Khan or Cleopatra. Who cares? But what
really matters is: What is your personal journey and what do you
have to do now as you go forward?
Now, leading to this and that we’re eternal beings, the most
important thing I’ve gotten from these experiences is that there is
actually a “science of the soul”, and a lot of the things that
happen to us are because of this.
But as humans... well, if we’re not even really acknowledging
that there really is a soul, how are we going to begin to even
uncover and uncap this science? And I’ve learned some
fascinating things from them.
Now, this is where you put your hat on and decide. Even though
I’m speaking authoritatively, don’t let it fool you. [laughs] You
have to decide for yourself whether it’s true or not.
From what I have learned, the human being is a unique
experience that’s a symbiont experience. There is this energetic
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electric residue, if you want to call it, that comes in and binds
with the biological unit, and there are two dual-operating systems
that coexist – which I think is interesting.
If you know anything about the human body, you know you have
the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems which
work together. One controls the powerful things like blinking,
heart beating, respirations. The other one says: I think I’m going
to move my hand and stroke my hair, and I want to eat, and I’m
going to do some more complex operations
Apparently there are two systems that learn to coexist in our
body, and one is the one that is related to the biological unit.
When we become activated and our soul gets turned on more as a
primary listening-point, then that operating system comes into
greater power. It gives you greater discipline, and it gives you
greater understanding, and greater control to move forward as a
more evolved, willful human being.
Now, there’s a whole... Obviously we don’t have time for this,
you know, how the soul binds and how it separates. But the one
interesting thing that I think is really pertinent that I want to
mention is that a lot of you have heard about with extraterrestrial
experiences [that] people become paralyzed and they can’t move.
What they showed me is that many of the races know how to
actually disengage the soul from the biological unit.
What they do, as they’ve explained to me, is that they actually
can come in and through their abilities they can rotate your
nervous system – they can disengage it a little bit. What they say
is they just turn it a little bit so your synaptic junctions do not line
up and you’re not able to control your body, and therefore that’s
where the paralysis comes in.
Again, I don’t know if this is true. I have some medical and
scientific background but not to that extent, but I think it’s really
interesting and I think it merits further exploration as we look
into the new types of sciences that we should be exploring.
So, for those of you who have those paralytic-type of encounters,
oftentimes that’s what happens. Or [if] you come back from a
lucid dream and you slam back into your body and you can’t
really move for a while, the alignment hasn’t taken place.
The reason I’m sharing these types of things is that I want you to
just look at life differently and say that there’s many different
422
explanations for all these crazy things that can happen out there.
Some of them might make sense and might actually be proven if
we move in the right direction in science.
So there’s this whole science of the soul that provides a lot of
explanation for what happens and why it happens that we have
yet to uncover, and once we do, things are going to make a lot
more common sense.
The other thing is learning about that space and time and
dimensions don’t coincide with our traditional understanding. I
mean, why? The human has an orientation and why we just don’t
get it is because we think linear. We think up; we think down. We
think left/ right, east/west, north/south. And because of that we
have to learn to think more inside and outside and move in a
different direction.
I’m going to go really fast now because I just got the warning
sign.
All right, I want to talk to you real quickly and let you know that
with time-space and reality that there is something called a nodal
point and when you hear about people talking about attraction
and things coming to you, part of it is tied into this.
What we’re able to do is we’re able to get ourselves to this crux
of time-space energy where everything can flow out, and you can
do this through your consciousness. What happens is, when you
get yourself to the power of this nodal point and you start
thinking in a conscious direction, you can redirect the flow of the
futures that come to you.
All right. So why are things happening now? Because, my
friends, we have these new eyes and capacity to reinterpret the
world. Life used to be like that... life is now like this... [refers to
slide that shows the famous “American Gothic” painting by
Grant Wood in 1930; next to the classic painting is a re-creation
of the painting, but with the farmer and wife talking on cell
phones and the farmer has a golf club instead of the pitchfork]
because we have technology., Technology has given us the
insider course to the answers for many of the things that were not
able to be understood before... and so, our ancient alchemists are
really today’s modern scientists.
So what I’ve done for that first part is I’ve given you a preview of
what it’s been like and some of the things that I’ve learned.
Obviously I can’t dump 50-plus years into the course of 45-
minutes-to-an-hour, but I wanted to give you a little bit of insight
into what it’s been like for me.
But now I’m more interested in something far more important.
It’s not about me... it’s about you. And this is what I want to
spend the last 15 minutes talking to you about.
You all have come here and you’ve all talked to yourself about,
you know: we’ve got this mission, we’re awakening [and] we
feel special.
You have a new job assignment and it’s not that you’re this great
prophet or anything. You’re really door-holders; you’re in
concierge services.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
If you want people to think differently and be open to your ideas,
you need to just gently introduce them to it in a way that’s
palatable to them. And that’s what your responsibility is. Besides
your own journey of awakening, you’re also here for other
people.
This [shows a series of slides of skyscrapers in cities] is how
humans tend to see the world. They tend to see it in their
suburban background, in their isolated houses, in their little
communities, and then their cities and they stay within their
viewpoints. You never even get them to look up into the sky
hardly at all to see what’s going [on] there. So we see ourselves
as this contained globe.
BUT... how you see the world is different because you see it with
the power of metamorphosis and the power of change and of
infinite possibility and you know that what’s been fed to us isn’t
necessarily what’s real.
So your new job description is Metamorphosis and that you’re
Change-Agents of a new degree because you’re dealing with
extraterrestrial reality and human higher consciousness. And you
have to do it in a way that you do not appear disenfranchised, you
do not appear alienated from them, that they’re able to listen to
you and they want to listen to you.
I mean, I’ve had this crazy background and extremely far-out and
I’ve been very, very successful walking into many different
countries, many different corporations, many different
businesses, many different people, and have been able to give
people some very strong tools for progressing forward.
It’s all about the way that we communicate and the way that we
do it. So I need you to understand something about your audience
because I want you to have some tangible tools as you move
forward.
This is who you’re working with on the planet now. [shows slide
with the “EL’s, OH’s and EM’s ] I tend to call it “Alphabet
Demographics”: EL’s, OH’s, and EM’s
Okay, the EL’s are what you’d consider yourself: Enlightened
Luminaries. You know, you’ve seen it all... extraterrestrial,
paranormal experiences. You’re in tune with those who connect
with you in the unseen world on the other side. Nothing fazes you
and you’re well aware on the pathway.
The OH’s are what I call the Ordinary Humans. These are the
people who are still out there. They may be interested in what
Oprah has to say; they think all this is kind of interesting. And in
that group is the Emerging Human, the [noise or sound unclear]
and those emerging humans, those are the people who are
“retarded” in terms of making headway with them, that they
would be willing to hear you if you communicate appropriately
with them. This is what...
Kerry once interviewed me and I called them “the swing vote”.
These are the people who are looking to know more about what’s
out there, are fed up with what they’ve been told because it no
longer fits the world as they see it, but they need to have it
packaged in a way that they can accept and is understandable to
them.
423
This is where it is incumbent upon us to stop thinking about
ourselves: Oh, I do this; and I read this book; and I have this;
and have you heard about this... and to sit down, shut up, and
listen to them and to start understanding where they come from,
acknowledging who they are.
It’s not about you. It’s about you extending your hand and
saying: I hear you, you know. I have some things to offer, instead
of overpowering them with what we have encountered on our
journeys and what we know because they have some
extraordinary things to share. These are the people who are going
to determine our future.
We, of course, do have the EM’s, the Elementary Man, who is
what I call the funda-mental, which I think is an appropriate word
for them. These are the people who are greatly filled with
intolerance because they don’t want you challenging their
paradigm. If you come forward with your ideas, and what you
know, and the things we’re talking about here this weekend,
you’ve just violated their world and their sanctity. That is
something that they just won’t tolerate and will create a very
difficult life for you.
I got this on the Internet. [show slide of this map] I don’t know
who to attribute it to. It’s one of the most brilliant things I’ve ever
seen – The World According to Americans. [google this and see
the map – it’s hilarious]
America: We’re Number One; We’re Number One. Eastern and
Western Europe is, you know, pussies and communists. Coffee
comes from South America. We only know Australia’s
kangaroos. [audience laughter] You know, the polar cap’s cold...
Santa!
This is really how most of America sees things and I’d love to
give credit to whoever it came from but it came through
anonymously. Evil-doers (Even though there’re) bombs going
here, you know... [points to the Middle East] Mexico and South
America, they do our laundry and lawns. [audience laughter] You
know? This is what we’re dealing with, and you’ve got to
remember and you’ve got to respect – this is their world too.
Okay. So your tools are... remember -- it’s all about perspectives,
and while this looks like a nice little design, [shows slide of an
elephant skin] this is actually elephant skin. And so your tools are
to show people that it’s not what it seems, there’s something
deeper underneath it.
And so your approach is the “New 3-Rs”, which is not reading,
‘riting, and ‘rithmetic. This is something I work with people in
great depth with, and this is important.
You have to make yourself relevant.
You know, if you’re just sitting there on your commune and
you’re just working with your own little sphere, it’s not going to
work. You have to come into today’s world if you really want to
be a change-maker. You have to do things within today’s 21st
century and make yourself relevant to today’s culture and society.
You’ve got to be realistic.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
You’ve got to look at what you’re working with for the second
“R”. You have got to not just say: Well, you know, the aliens are
going to be here on Sunday; or: I’m channeling them and you
want to come hear them. You’ve got to be realistic with who
you’re working with and what you’re dealing with, and you need
to speak to them in those appropriate terms.
But most importantly, my friends, you’ve got to be relatable.
You have got to be able to be somebody that they’re willing to
look at, and to listen to, and to not be necessarily bringing your
stuff on them, but you’re entering into their world.
Two thousand years ago you had a great teacher here and a lot of
the teachings that were really relevant were lost.
One of the things I will share with you, which you can dismiss or
accept, is that there was a group that he worked with, and in this
group, he taught them the ways of the common ordinary man. He
taught them about their behaviors and he taught them how to go
forward, not just in this lifetime but in their future lifetimes, as
effective messengers, messengers who will open the door,
messengers of change... and in doing that, you have to be
relatable. As you read your old-time readings, you will read about
the ancient Essenes, how they would change their robes when
they went into town so they matched what the people were
wearing.
So these three “Rs” are things I want you to remember. And so,
you know, the change that is happening, as I heard y’all talking
about it before... it’s true.
Enough with all the spiritual mumbo-jumbo, Pal. What I’m
seeking is real interchange, said the piggybank to the guru.
[showing a cartoon of a coin piggy bank sitting in front of a guru]
The change is us. When we change, everything changes. It starts
within us, each and every one of us, and it has a great cascading
effect.
Now, I’ve got to say this before I finish up. The other part of
metamorphosis is financial, and that you have to realize that
we’re no longer these spiritual monks walking along with an alms
bowl saying: I’ll teach you for a dinner.
We have a lot of hang-ups about money and finances and, you
know, it’s particularly apt now because of the state of the world.
What we have to realize is that this is how we flex our collective
arm on this planet, through financial maneuverings and money.
It’s not money that’s bad. It’s getting hung up on money. It’s the
key of loving money, of wanting, you know, amassing millions
and billions, and living for a 401K instead of quality of life. So
you’ve got to get over this poverty consciousness of: I’m
spiritual, I’m good, I’m poor.
What is important for us is to be independent functioning
members of society, moving society forward. So it’s the love of
money, not getting caught up in it, that is a critical tool for us to
become financially aware and not have a hang-up if somebody
wants to pay you for your services and that you have a right to
earn a living. Okay. So it’s sound spiritual economics.
424
And what I want to show you is that it’s no longer where we just
used to be the wizard in the woods is what we were looking for,
for this magic change is that this [shows slide of bright points of
light in a dark forest] is the everyday change-agent now. You
may not like it, but a lot of you are actually still back in the
traditional avenues making headway and making change.
Not everybody comes to these types of things who are making a
difference on the planet and there have been a lot of people who
are out there developing new businesses, new technologies and
doing the really hard grunt work that’s going to carry us all
forward.
Sometimes they still look like they used to, but you know, that
with people in change [loses cable connection to slides – deleted
as not relevant] sometimes they look like this. So sometimes that
businessman is really somebody very profound who’s back once
again.
And so what I’m choosing to do with all the knowledge that I’ve
had, rather than sitting down writing books and doing this type of
thing, is I’m looking at people and I’m giving them very new
tools to change.
I’m helping them on their incarnational trek to become aware of
who they were but how it has relevance to today; looking at their
soul lessons and then repositioning them in a business-type and
entrepreneurial-type of venture around the world; planting those
human seeds of change and giving them the practical vision and
skills that they need to be able to function in the world as it now
exists. It may not be the one that you like. It may not be the one
that you want. It’s the one that we have.
And so they’re doing some very amazing things, you know, and I
love this quote: Success in almost any field depends more on
energy and drive than it does on intelligence because this
explains why we have so many stupid leaders. [laughter]
We’re trying to get rid of the stupid leaders and we’re trying to
put in the people who can make a difference and understand the
synthesis of what is going on on the planet and that we need to
move forward.
What we’re seeing mostly around the world are lifestyle
communities being built up, different ways of bringing up and
educating the children, food production changes, and a total
reeducation such as you’re doing here with Project Camelot.
Now, as I get ready to leave you, I want you to know one thing
and this is what has been made very clear to me by those who
visit us and those who teach, is that we are here together. We
have a group incarnational lesson and if we don’t pull this off,
things most likely aren’t going to be as optimal for us as they
could be.
What that group incarnational lesson is: Stop saying: You read
Urantia. You read Jane Roberts. You know, I don’t believe in
this.
We have to look at each other and see the soul-lights within each
other and see who we are as a collective group. We have to truly,
as clichéd as it sounds, see the love in each other or it’s going
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
to... stop being kind of pissy with each other and deciding: I don’t
like this; I’m judging this. We don’t have time for that anymore.

There is a very short timeframe environmentally it looks like,

doesn’t it, for us to make some things differently.

And so it’s all about seeing the soul-light and networking with
each other in a way that you never have before, making each
other smarter, and sometimes that networking involves a little bit
of a different partner, doesn’t it?

You really are your brother’s keeper. This is what they told me.
That old biblical cliché... in this time, in this frame, it has never
been truer. You have to take care of yourself, but now you’re just
as responsible for the other person; not: Well, it’s just my stuff So I love to end with this saying: Brave men earn the right to
and my path. shape their own destiny by Arthur Schlesinger, and I like to put
my own little twist on it. To all my little sisters out there: Brave
women earn the right to shape their own destiny.
Yes, I said it’s up to each of us to change to make the change;
now we have to form the chain-link. Now we have to come out
and work together and do it in a way that’s very smart. So, I know that I left out a lot because we had some difference in
the time changes. I know I went fast in some areas, but what I’m
going to say to you is I want to thank you so much for giving me
The real secret behind all this -- if you want to make a difference
the chance to bring you a little view of what I’m doing out there
-- is people who do great things don’t take NO for an answer.
in the world to try to make a difference.
They just go ahead and they forge and they find the resources and
know what needs to be done.
As I say, I’m going to be here if you want to talk to me and get
some more detail on the things that I just quickly glossed over.
They also understand the power of kindness and you’ll learn that
it’s far better to be kind than to be right. Being kind in business
and being kind as you go forward in your ventures has greater So thank you for allowing me the time to be here.
weight than anything else you’ll ever do.
[applause]
And most importantly we have to realize it’s not an
extraterrestrial that’s going to save us; it’s not an angel. People KC: Thank you, Marcia.
who do great things know that man alone has the power to work
out his destiny in combination with his own intelligence – that
BILL RYAN (BR): Marcia, I think I’m going to employ you as a
hybrid approach again, of the spirit, the soul, and the cognitive
consultant to help me improve the quality of my visual
reasoning.
presentations. [Marcia laughs] That was so beautiful! I love those
pictures.
So when we talk about thinking outside the box, we’re now
taking it to a new level in terms of what the box is, you know.
MS: Thank you, thank you.
You folks already are thinking way outside the box.

BR: That was wonderful. Thank you.

So when I look at metamorphosis, remember [that] behind the
change on this planet is a change in perspective. Your ability to
see things differently, along with other peoples’ capacity to now MS: [unclear]
listen to the things you have to say, is rooted – a lot – in science,
technology, and advances bringing us to a new world. [applause]

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

425
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Richard Dolan Lecture Transcript
September 19, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): Okay, Rich Dolan! How’s it looking?
RICHARD DOLAN (RD): I think we’re ready.
BILL RYAN (BR): You’re ready to go?
KC: Okay. We’re going to tell everything we know about Rich
Dolan, because we kind of know him well. [laughs].
He’s such a political guy that he has his hand on the political
pulse, and he’s got a brand-new book out. Bill has actually read
it. I haven’t had time lately. I read his other book, though, and I
can tell you, he’s a wonderful writer. UFOs and the National
Security State – we’ve been waiting forever for the second
volume and finally it’s out and apparently it’s absolutely
phenomenal.
Rich is just an amazing guy. Let’s see, do we say Rhodes Scholar
finalist? Whatever. And historian; brilliant, brilliant mind; very
level-headed; politically-astute. He’s also himself an intuitive. He
doesn’t tell you that, but he is! And I’ve known him from before
Camelot, so I have to say that I actually tried to spur him on to
more radicalism. [laughs]
I know we have to move things along, Bill. Okay, Bill, why don’t
you do the official introduction? I think I’ve pushed around
enough dirt here.
426
BR: That was the unofficial one? Okay. The official introduction
is very brief. Twenty years ago I read Timothy Good’s Above
Top Secret, which was known by many in those days as the Bible
of UFOlogy. That’s the book which you give people who doubt
the reality of the phenomenon and then you say: Okay, read that
and we’ll talk again.
Now there’s a new book that supersedes this in every way. And,
as Kerry was saying, it’s not just one book, it’s a trilogy, and
Rich has just published the second of three volumes, 638 pages.
It’s the second volume which takes it from... is it ’78 to...?
RD: ’73 to ’91.
BR: ’73 to...?
RD: ’91.
BR: ’73 to ’91 – some very interesting years in UFOlogy. And
Volume 3 is from ’91 to the present.
Rich has got no other role here than being an academic historian,
with all the combination of intellectual rigor and thinking outside
the box. He’s surfing on the waves of history itself here,
chronicling these times which are unique in the history of the
human race, we believe. I believe that Richard believes this too,
and he knows probably more about this subject now than almost
anybody else on the outside of the inside.
KC: On the outside of the National Security State.
BR: I'm not going to say anymore. Richard, take it away and tell
them everything you know. You’ve got one hour.
KC: Okay.
RD: Thanks very much. It’s a pleasure to be here. I’d like to
thank Bill and Kerry for that very gracious introduction and other
people here at Camelot, who’ve made my trip here a lot easier
and more pleasant. I thank them, also.
I’ve already enjoyed meeting a number of attendees here. As I’ve
often felt that – I absolutely mean this – I learn more at the
conferences, I think, than you do from me. The reason is that
there is never a lack of brilliant people who know an awful lot
about this, and they typically will come up to me; some of them
will come up to me during the conference, and proceed to tell me
these incredible things. So, it’s always worthwhile for me to
come here, and I also just enjoy meeting people.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
I do have a new book out. It’s the second volume of UFOs and
the National Security State. I do have some copies here. I hope I
brought enough, but the book is easily available now at my
website [ www.keyholepublishing.com ] and on
www.amazon.com, and I will be talking a little bit about that.
For my quarry today I have titled my lecture Exopolitics in a New
Key: Creating a Fresh Roadmap. I don’t know if that’s a bit
ostentatious or not. I wrote it on the plane on the way out here,
so, literally, it’s a brand new lecture.
So let’s begin. I’ve got three basic themes that I want to cover
today. First, I do want to talk a little bit about my book, not to
market it, but, really, because it’s relevant toward the later theme
that I want to discuss today.
I’ve developed some thoughts over the last several years about
Exopolitics. I’ve never written explicitly about Exopolitics, but,
for various reasons, I am often asked to comment on Exopolitics.
I have, for example, spoken at every one of the Steven Bassett’s
X-Conferences. In fact, I think I’m the only person who’s spoken
at all of them, and I’ve attended and spoken at all of the National
Press Club events that he’s had. So, that’s something of an
Exopolitical event and that’s put me within that whole discussion.
So, I have some thoughts about Exopolitics, which I think are my
own and I’d like to share those with you today. And I’d like to
wrap it up, continuing along those lines, with my own thoughts
on where we are headed as a society, as a civilization -- indeed,
as a species. I think it all works together rather well. So, we’re a
little bit behind schedule and I’ll move right ahead.
My new book is subtitled The Cover-up Exposed. It took me
about five years to write this book. Actually it’s impossible for
me to know because my first volume went through two editions.
The second edition came out in 2002 and people – back then I
was brand new in the field at the time – and people said: Oh,
that’s a pretty good book. What about the rest of the story?
[laughs]
And I thought: Yeah, I have to do that, don’t I? But then I wrote a
lot of articles and I did various public speaking venues, and so
forth, and I estimate about five solid years of working on this
particular volume.
It took a lot out of me in a lot of ways, to be perfectly candid with
you. It was a hard book to do, harder than the first volume I
wrote. I was lucky because, after that first book came out, a lot of
people came out of the woodwork and offered me their resources.
I had one very, very dear friend of mine, an elderly gentleman
who, when he passed away, left me his entire immense library of
nearly – the shy side of 1,000 books, not to count numerous
journals. An enormous, enormous library collection which I
actually read; I went through all the journals.
You have to understand. When I read these things, I’m very
methodical, if you know me. So, when I read a book, I don’t just
read it and say: Oh that’s a good book. I have my notes and
usually my word processor and I take notes all the way through.
Every little datum that I think is interesting goes in the notes with
427
the citation: page 77 of this issue of this journal, whatever. And it
goes in, so that I put them all together into an enormous database.
My UFO database is equal to, I think, about a 3,000 or 4,000-
page book and it’s from that that actually I put all my narrative
together. So it comes from literally hundreds and hundreds of
different sources dealing with UFOlogy, but also dealing with
politics and geopolitics and para-politics and whatever else you
want to call it, and all other sundry weird things that strike my
fancy, and it all goes into my database.
So then, when I come to year, say, 1977, I’ll look at everything
from that year and it all comes together in a way that I would not
probably have otherwise thought to do. That’s how I write my
books. It’s not what they teach you in graduate school, but that is
what I do.
This is a pretty big, fat book. It’s a little over 600 pages. I’ve got
lots and lots of end notes and index entries. In fact, the other way
to look at this is a series of a little over 200 specific article-length
sections that I’ve tried to weave together. Each subsection of this
book, I think, can just be taken independently and read as its own
unit. So, if you had a particular interest in one little thing, you
could open the book and read that, but they all do work together.
If you are interested in more information about this, you can go
to my website which is www.keyholepublishing.com – just like
looking through a key hole, an image I’ve always enjoyed
regarding this topic.
What I tried to do in writing all books and all articles that I’ve
done, and all public appearances that I’ve ever done, is to try to
provide a reliable guide to our past -- our recent past, in
particular.
It’s long been my feeling that our past is somewhat unknown to
us, and if we’re going to proceed as a responsible society, we
have to know our past.
Much of our past exists in the form of official government
documents and archives. You may not know this, but in fact it is
now widely understood that the vast majority of U.S. government
documents ever created remain completely inaccessible to you
and to me. They are classified. In other words, a large – not a
little, but a large – majority of our own history is off limits to us.
This isn’t just UFOs. This is everything.
We are in a very, very difficult and dangerous state when the
large majority of our written documentary history is not available
for us to study. There is a very serious problem with that. So,
what I’ve tried to do with the UFO topic is my part in salvaging
our history. Literally, that’s how I look at it. I don’t know how
complete it is, but it’s as complete as I’m able to make it.
Toward that end, I’ve used the largest amount that I’m able to of
government documents, that is, proven documents that you can’t
make an argument against: journals, reliable journals or at least in
my opinion good journals, and that includes journals by UFO
investigative organizations doing on-the-spot investigations, a
wide range of such journals; various books, of course.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And I’ve done a lot of interviews for this particular book. I it in roughly – I think about 10 pages I spent on Travis Walton –
actually don’t know how many individuals I interviewed, maybe that you would find anywhere; or on the Hudson Valley waves of
a couple of dozen. Maybe 20 or 30 people directly involved in UFO sightings of The Eighties, ditto; or the Hessdalen case in
the events that are in this book, I either met with in person, or did Norway; or the Bob Lazar phenomenon in the late ‘80s, or
extended telephone interviews, or conducted correspondence anything else that happened in that period of time.
with, and got their stories directly. And all of it, again, trying to
weave together as reliable an account as I can.

I want to emphasize that everything in this book, with a couple of

very specific exceptions, is verifiable data. Now, there are some
exceptions.

Any researcher, as I’m sure you will understand, who’s been in

this field long enough, is going to have individuals that come up
to them and say: I appreciate your work. I have this bit of
information that I would like to share with you. Here it is, but you
have to promise that you cannot give up my identity. I have a
sensitive position, etcetera, etcetera. And that happens; that’s
life. It’s unfortunate that it has to be that way, but there it is.

Now, any time a researcher gets that information and then repeats
it, keeping the anonymity of the source, of course, it’s a difficult
situation, because it puts you, the recipient of that information, in
an unequal position. This is something that I never, ever believe
in doing.
My attitude as a writer and as a communicator is that we speak as
equals, so that anything that I know, you should be able to know
as well. That’s how it should be. That’s how good history, that’s
how good science is done, so I try to go easy with that.
I’m sometimes distressed by some researchers in this field, and
I’m not really going to name names. I’m not interested in doing
that today, but there are people who really do this to excess, in
my opinion.
Maybe they feel they have no choice; they feel that they have to
get the word out. But the problem is that when you do this,
you’re not necessarily helping the public discourse on this. What
you’re doing instead is creating a lot of uncertainty about it.
So, we’re in a difficult position. We have what we feel are certain
truths and realities that we want to communicate to the rest of the
world, which we feel is in the dark and asleep. I think that’s true.
But we have to be aware of who we are speaking to when we
engage in this kind of conversation. We have to be as responsible
about this as we’re able to be and not unduly place the public’s
trust in what we have to say, but rather, as I’ve been saying, the
public should be able, any time, to check and verify the things
that we say.
Okay, enough said on that.
This book really is, as I see it, three major themes that I tried to
weave together. The first theme is what we might call the
encounters, something of an encyclopedic account of this
particular 18-year period of UFO history.
So, if you had an interest in the Travis Walton event, you could
read about it in my book and my hope would be that you would
read the best, most concise, most complete [and] great account of
428
My goal was that you could use this book as a reference and a
reliable guide and know what you needed to know, learn what
you needed to learn. So, that was the first, and that’s a lot of the
book.
The second major theme, though, I guess would be the politics.
Obviously there’s politics to this. So, what I tried to do, again, is
learn and analyze the primary military and intelligence
community documents that describe this -- not just those of the
United States, incidentally, but trying to gain the attitude of
responsible agencies from any and all nations that encountered
this.
The Soviet Union figures heavily in this book, as does to some
extent even China; the European nations most definitely, and
other countries as well: Australia, Africa [and] Middle East.
They’re all in here.
And to the extent possible I’ve tried to weave their take on this
and their attitude in here -- attitudes of various Presidents, of all
the Presidents; Presidential policy that’s relevant to the UFO
phenomenon. The man in the center, of course, is David
Rockefeller. [referring to overhead display] He’s in the book. I’ll
get into that a little more in just a few minutes.
The third major theme or strand of this book would be the
research. In a sense this book is a history of UFOlogy, which is a
fascinating story. In fact, of all the things that I researched in
doing this book, there were times when I felt that this to me, was
personally the most interesting.
Back in the old days when I was in my late teens and early 20s, I
was studying history and English literature. That was my dual
major. My focus in history back then was what is called
intellectual history. It’s kind of like the history of ideas.
I’ve always been interested in that, and really it occurred to me in
writing this volume that the story of UFOlogy is a part of
intellectual history, without a doubt, and this is a story that I feel,
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
in reviewing the literature, really hadn’t been done in a
synthesized, coherent way.
I think this book is actually a first true history of UFOlogy. We’ll
come to that again in a moment.
There’s a backdrop involved in this book and it’s one of global
transformation. You have, for example, geopolitical
transformation, the breaking up of the Soviet Union by 1991 at
the end of this volume. You have the birth of personal computing
and even the Internet before the end of this particular period. And
you have throughout – I tried to look at what we might call
advanced, either open or covert, cutting-edge technologies. The
image on the top there [referring to overhead display] is the
famous ARV – Alien Reproduction Vehicle.
I think I saw Gordon Novel here in the audience; Gordon, hello,
if you’re there.
So, in other words, there are things in the larger world at large
that affected this story, and again, I tried to pay as close attention
to them as I could. So, I just wanted to expand a little bit on each
of those three themes and then move on to the next part of this
talk.
The encounters: The thing that strikes me when I reviewed the
cases involved, the UFO encounters that took place, is the
quantity of well-documented, just astonishing, mind-blowing
encounters that took place --military cases galore; hundreds and
hundreds of them.
I was fortunate in getting access to a database provided to me by
the researcher and former Aerojet employee, Ron Regehr. Ron
worked on… he was involved in building what was called the
DSP satellite. That’s Defense Support Program satellites. A very
interesting kind of satellite in which Ron argued, I think with a
lot of persuasion, that they are designed perfectly to be UFO-
spotting devices.
In any case, Ron was able – accidentally, but legally -- to obtain a
list of DSP tracks of Fast Walkers during this period of time; in
other words, Fast Walker being the code word for UFO in the
upper atmosphere in space.
There were... I’m trying to recall... from 1973 to 1991 about 283,
I think that’s right, Fast Walker trackings by the DSP satellites
during that period of time. It’s like one every month or more, 15
a year, I believe. A couple of them were really interesting, one in
which an object came in from space and did a U-turn in the
vicinity of one of the satellites.
There was also a DSP tracking of a UFO during the spectacular
1976 Iranian jet fighter intercept. Many people are familiar with
this and I, again, cover this at length in my book.
To make a long story short, in September 1976, over the city of
Teheran – and, of course, this is back in the days of the Shah
when Iran was an ally of the United States – a large number of
Teheran citizens saw this very unusual object in the evening sky.
They called the local airport.
429
The air traffic controller person at first thought it was silly, then
he went out and looked [laughs] and saw exactly what people
were reporting, and he called the Iranian Air Force. They sent
two F-4 fighter jet interceptors in succession, and we know all
about this because – we know a lot about it because – we have a
very extended defense intelligence agency memo describing this
in fascinating detail.
What happened is that in each case of the F-4 encounters, when
they got to within a range of 25 nautical miles of this object –
which they tracked on airborne radar, which they saw visually,
which astonished the pilots, each of them – when they got to
within 25 nautical miles, their key electronic systems went
offline. In one case, right before one pilot was about to fire a
missile at this object. It disabled the missile system.
It so happens that we have DSP tracking data of a Fast Walker in
exactly that spot at that time -- pretty interesting confirmation,
indeed.
Back to the quantity of these encounters, and what we find is just
an enormous amount of unexplained events going on that any
responsible researcher would have to inquire about. Forget the
issue, initially, of aliens.
The biggest frustration I have when I talk to skeptics about this is
that they jump ten steps ahead of the argument and they’ll say
something like: Well that’s impossible because it’s impossible for
aliens to come here from another planet. Don’t you know
anything about astrophysics, or space travel, or the
impossibility...
Well, okay. I can’t argue that and I know as well as the next
person that we don’t have a way, ourselves, of getting to the
nearest star; not officially.
But nevertheless, the real issue is in looking at these UFO reports
and then trying to make sense out of them. Sure, it’s easy to just
say it’s impossible, but the question is: What do you do with the
reports? What most people do is they ignore them, of course.
That’s the easy thing.
A number of other very interesting developments during these
years... Abductions: I actually write quite a bit about that
phenomenon, and again, I’m going to come back to that shortly.
The mutilation phenomenon: Is that or is that not related to the
UFO phenomenon? I think it is. Crop circles, ditto. I think that
there’s a relationship there, and all of these I tried to deal with as
well as I could.
So concluding, provisionally, regarding the encounter thread of
this book, there’s a lot of conclusions we can make. Let’s keep it
simple: There is an overwhelming evidence for UFO reality.
To me, if I were to have the opportunity to speak to somebody on
NBC or some major network, this is the message I think that I
would emphasize – that let’s take one step at a time here, and the
evidence is overwhelming. This was my first primary goal in
putting this book together, was to lay that evidence out as
persuasively as I could.
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The politics: I’m going to expand a little bit on this. Let me just
jump, put all of these out there and we can talk about them.
There’re a lot of themes in my book that deal with what we
would call the politics of UFOs. Each of the presidential
administrations, I tried to deal with, I did deal with.
1973: We had Richard Nixon still in the White House. There’s
some pretty good Nixon UFO – there’s one great Nixon UFO
story. That’s the Nixon / Jackie Gleason story and that’s in my
book.
Jimmy Carter and the whole... oh, skipping Gerald Ford through
Carter, through the Reagan and Bush years -- it turns out that
each of these Presidents has some fascinating connections to
UFO history. So that’s one aspect of it.
Then the military/ intelligence-community-confirmed documents
inform a lot of this book as well. One thing that is very clear from
looking at the mass of that data is not simply that the
phenomenon is real, but that they were very, very concerned
about this phenomenon. [laughs]
It makes perfect sense when you’re in charge of managing
security over an Air Force base and an object that you can’t
identify is coming over your base, doing things that are not
supposed to be possible.
For example, in the wave of airspace violations in 1975 along the
northern US border into Canada, over many bases with the
Strategic Air Command, triggering maximum-level alerts, sirens
going, lights flashing and all of that, with objects hovering 500
feet over weapons storage facilities.
Yes, it happened and it happened multiple times during a brief
period in late 1975. And we know for sure that this excited the
concern of responsible agencies. We learned about this because
we were at a very unique stage in American history in the late
‘70s, and that was when the Freedom of Information Act was
actually kind of, sort of, useful.
Back in those days – this was the early Carter years – Jimmy
Carter had a very liberal attitude about FOIA and did promote a
relative amount of openness in relation to these government
documents.
430
There’s still a great deal that was never released and, in fact, of
all the Freedom of Information Act documents we have, almost
none of them were of the level of Top Secret or above. The
highest good ones we have are classified Secret and below.
There’s a couple of documents we have that were Top Secret, and
they were all excised, blacked out or whited out, so you really
can’t read what’s in them.
But nevertheless, a lot of good information came out and during
that period we learned about these airspace violations in the mid
’70s.
During the late ’70s, early ’80s, there’s overwhelming evidence
to show that intelligence groups infiltrated UFO research
organizations. They clearly did this earlier, as well, but my
argument in this book is that circa 1979, 1980, there is an active
effort by agencies once again to infiltrate the field, and to stir up
the mud and make it essentially a lot more difficult for us to
know what direction is up and what is down.
But there’s more than this. One of the things that I brought into
this volume that I really did not do a lot of in my first book,
because I don’t think I was there mentally myself ten years ago,
is what I would now call the larger geopolitical realities.
Forget UFOs for a moment. I think that most people can now
recognize that the United States President is probably not the guy
in charge of the country. Okay. So we all know this. So then the
question becomes: Well, who or what is? And that’s a harder
question sometimes to answer.
Certainly this is not a question that I see getting raised in the
standard halls of academia. I don’t see this raised in political
science departments or history departments around the country or
beyond. I think that they’re still stuck in a much more
conventional mindset.
But the fact is, what I try to do is analyze each of the Presidencies
and their relationship to the elite organizations – the infamous
Bilderberg group, CFR, Trilateral, and so forth. Is there a
relationship? Well, the answer is absolutely, 100% yes.
Absolutely, yes. Not maybe, but yes – and this is important.
The kingmaker of the United States for the past half century
easily has been David Rockefeller. You don’t get to be President
until he says you are going to be President. Gerald Ford was a
five-time Bilderberg attendee back in The Sixties. He didn’t just
come out of nowhere to become the first unelected President in
American history.
Jimmy Carter is probably, as most people in this room know, was
lifted almost directly by David Rockefeller and Zbigniew
Brzezinski and dropped into the White House. That’s really the
case. [laughter] I mean, Jimmy Carter interviewed with them
before he got the Democratic Nomination. They were impressed
by him; they said: Yes, you’re going to be our man.
Brzezinski, of course, became his National Security Adviser, and
he’s now, of course, one of the key advisers and point-men for
Barack Obama. Some things never change.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The influence of the Trilateral Commission in the Carter
administration was actually much commented on at the time, and
1980 presidential candidate Ronald Reagan made a lot of
political capital out of this fact.
Ronald Reagan, in 1980, sounded a lot like Ron Paul did last
year, believe it or not -- he really did. Ronald Reagan
campaigned in 1980 against the elites, campaigned against the
Council on Foreign Relations, campaigned against George
Herbert Walker Bush in that regard and said in fact: That man
will never be part of my administration.
Well, it so happened that Ronald Reagan’s campaign manager
was one William Casey, a key leading CFR man and a close
friend of the Rockefellers, and all of that changed, obviously,
when Ronald Reagan selected Bush as his running mate, causing
a number of long-time Reagan supporters to walk off the stage at
the Republican Nomination, in fact.
A month or two after that, in September of 1980, Ronald Reagan
had a pre-victory campaign party, September of ’80, and seated
to his right was David Rockefeller himself. So, that’s how it all
works.
I have some points, even, that I make on the assassination attempt
of Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley Jr., son of John Hinckley
Sr., who was a very close friend of George Herbert Walker Bush
-- a very close friend.
Hinckley’s older brother, Scott Hinckley, that night, the night of
the assassination attempt, was due to have lunch with Neil Bush,
son of the Vice President -- very interesting indeed, a confluence
that major media really did not delve into at all.
Okay. Moving ahead, then, to other themes... Well, before I leave
this, I’ll just then say that the United States Presidency, as I
argue, that the U.S. President, let me put it this way, is essentially
a sales rep and his job is to sell you, really, two things these days.
The first thing that he’s got to sell you is globalization, which is a
bitter pill for many Americans to swallow, so he’s got to be good
at that.
And then the other pill he’s got to make you swallow is whatever
new war comes down the pike, and they do this on behalf of
international financial groups.
One of the other things that I will mention before moving on is
that I did a brief, but I think concise, analysis of the Gulf War.
It’s not a UFO event per se, but it’s important. It’s important in
order for all of us to remind ourselves that we need to take the
veil away and see our power structure for what it is, and the
reason is that if we are interested in what we call disclosure and
openness from our government, then we need to know exactly
what that government is.
We can’t go through our lives rerunning our 5th grade civics
class version of the government in our mind. You know that
version: You vote for your member of congress – this was all on
Schoolhouse Rock, if you lived through that – your member of
congress, and then how a bill becomes a law, and checks and
balances, let’s not forget that, and on and on and on.
431
That’s really not our world anymore. We’re in a different world
and we need to understand the true structure of power as it exists.
So, this is an important part of what I try to do in this book.
The other aspect, we’ll loosely call it under politics, would be the
technological considerations. Again, asking a question which I
don’t have a complete answer to this: the ours versus theirs issue,
so if you see a UFO -- who made it? Did we make it? Did they
make it?
It’s a hard issue always to resolve, at least in my own view. I try
to look at this by understanding what was the state of our official
technological achievements at certain periods in the history of
this? What were the possible states of achievement in the black
world [i.e., black ops], in the covert world, in trying to piece this
together.
Black budget matters and privatization of the secrets also figure
into my book. What is the black budget? Well I think you all
know. It’s not just classified federal spending, though.
I think there’s a lot more that goes into what we call the black
budget. I think there’s a great deal of what we would all call
illegal money going into black budget, into what we would call
Special Access Programs or Waived Special Access Programs or
Unacknowledged Special Access Programs. There’s actually a
whole host of other program names that I’ve come across in my
research.
They have little to no – let’s say no – oversight by congress. They
have little to no oversight, sometimes, by their own agencies,
whether it’s the Navy, Army, or Air Force, or any of the
intelligence groups. Who knows who runs some of these things?
It appears that there’s a lot of illegal money flowing through,
whether that’s narco-trafficking dollars or securities fraud, stock
market fraud, you know, flowing through our government like
the blood in your veins.
And by privatization of the secrets, what I mean is... again,
forgetting UFOs for the moment; I think it’s not hard for all of us
to see how government agencies – and this is not simply the U.S.
– have become completely dominated by private money. I think
we can see this. And so, it’s also the case with the UFO secrets.
One of the points that I make – and some of this, not all of it,
does come from a couple of sources that, unfortunately, I’m just
not at liberty to say who these people are – but I’ve been given
information that I think is valid. It indicates a massive runaway
nature of the UFO secrets in the hands of private, semi-public,
but often very private interest groups.
Certainly when you look at the Special Access Program – that
whole world – the few studies that have been done on it do
indicate that private contractors are the dominant partner, rather
than DOD personnel, who function for their part primarily as
gatekeepers for money to flow in. But the actual decisions are run
by, whether it’s Boeing or Lockheed or SAIC or Raytheon or
whoever is running the programs, they’re the dominant ones.
And it makes sense because -- think about it: If you’re a Pentagon
Four-Star General, when you retire, who’s going to hire you?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Well, those companies will, at a nice cushy job making a lot of
money; and all this revolving door that goes on.
It’s also very much easier for keeping the secrets when you
privatize this, because the information then doesn’t become
classified -- it becomes proprietary, which is a much, much better
way to keep this information from the public, and it becomes
profitable, of course.
If you assume, as I do, as I’ve come to believe, that much of this
involves retrieval of acquired technologies, exotic technology not
manufactured by human hands, so then you’ve got this little
artifact that you’ve got to study and you may not be able to
duplicate it right away, but you might after ten years come up
with some pretty nifty ideas on what you can do, and you’ve got
a great money-maker there.
So really, the incentive for giving the secrets up becomes less and
less and less over the years. So, it naturally becomes private. Of
course it does.
So, the obvious conclusion – this is the kindergarten-level
conclusion of the politics portions – is that there is an active
international cover-up of the core of the UFO phenomenon.
There’s obviously much more that I try to say regarding that. But
again, if there’s a single take-away message, that would have to
be it: It’s a real phenomenon and yes, Virginia, there is a cover-
up.
The research... I’ll get a little bit more into this. As I say, it’s a
history of UFOlogy, a fascinating bit of history. It's, in a sense,
you might say that the history’s a part of the history of the
development of human consciousness.
Think of it this way: We’ve had this phenomenon that’s observed
us for who knows how long, right? And it’s really during, I
believe, The Seventies and then The Eighties when researchers,
in a sophisticated way, tried to understand who these other beings
were. It’s our attempt, in a sense, to turn the tables and
understand who they were.
Sure, there were researchers in The Fifties and Sixties. I don't
really think that researchers in The Fifties and Sixties were quite
there in asking the kinds of questions that came up in The
Seventies.
Something of an intellectual revolution in UFO research took
place during these years. A lot of new issues came up that hadn’t
existed before. The whole concept of crash retrievals became big;
there was a lot of resistance to it. It’s a story, again, that I
document, the story of those people who tried to bring this issue
to the fore and those who said: No, that’s a lot of nonsense.
It was a very heated issue – it still is, to a lesser extent. In The
Seventies and Eighties, it was a big issue; people got very upset
over it [and] the topic of abductions, probably more so.
Yes, it had been known that there were probably isolated cases of
what appeared to be abductions by aliens. Everyone knew about
the Barney and Betty Hill case of 1961 and a few others. But, the
idea back then was: Well, don’t be in the wrong place at the
wrong time because if they see you, they may just take you.
432
What happened during The Eighties was a completely different
understanding of that phenomenon. People like Budd Hopkins,
foremost among them, argued: No, no, that’s not how it is at all.
This phenomenon appears to be very widespread, based on my
investigations, and seems even to run in families. People are
repeatedly experiencing this phenomenon.
In other words, a kind of way of looking at it that, again, met a
tremendous amount of resistance at the time.
The mutilation controversy really reared itself in a significant
way during this period. Again, there had been some cases of
‘mutes’ in The Sixties, but they didn’t get a lot of attention until
the mid ’70s and they’ve continued. Mutilation cases are
disturbing, fascinating.
Crop circles, not so disturbing but equally fascinating, came up as
a major topic during this period of time.
The other thing to say about the research is the effect of the
Internet on research. We all know how the Internet has changed
the world, and it certainly has. It also changed UFOlogy. What it
really did is -- starting around 1987 -- it just caused UFOlogy to
explode. That’s basically what happened.
Prior to 1987, if you were an interested researcher in that topic,
your venues for expressing your ideas were very limited,
basically. There were some journals that were out there with a
limited distribution. You could try to create your own journal,
which some people did, and have an even more limited
distribution. All the journals had their own editorial policies for
submission, of course. You had to be careful what you wrote.
And that was about it.
Starting in 1986 and 1987, we get the very beginnings of what we
now would call the Internet. Back then there was no World Wide
Web, but there were newsgroups, bulletin boards, and, in fact, the
earliest non-computer-programming bulletin board was dedicated
to UFOs.
The UFO topic is one of the true pioneers of the Internet, and by
1987, it allowed people in this field to publish their thoughts
without having to worry who was going to edit them – it just
went out there. And suddenly, they were getting more readers
than those people who’d submitted their articles to the MUFON
UFO Journal.
Suddenly the old guard of UFOlogy lost control over this
domain. You could say that’s a good thing, you could say that’s a
bad thing, but that’s what happened, for better and for worse in
fact, because after that, a flood of information then came out.
And again, a fascinating story.
So, that’s the story of the research. And the conclusions of the
book, let’s just say, roughly speaking: The phenomenon is
undeniable; the cover-up is undeniable.
There’s a confrontational nature to this phenomenon. There are
many of them. Militaries around the world have been chasing
these things, not just the American military. Now, that doesn’t
mean that we’re the bad guys or that we’re the good guys – that’s
a different issue. What it does mean, though, is that there is some
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
trouble in paradise. Someone’s not getting along with someone
else -- that we can say.
Abductions: In my assessment of this, there is no question there
is an abduction phenomenon -- and it is NOT, as has been argued
by some people, mostly notably Dr. Steven Greer -- simply a
military phenomenon. In fact, I think it’s irresponsible to make
this argument. There is something...[applause] Yes, you can clap
for that. [applause continues]
It boggles my mind, to be perfectly candid here, that a researcher
can make such a blanket statement. You have a phenomenon
that’s gone on globally for a long time. You have individuals that
are describing highly consistent things in terms of their abduction
experiences, and I don’t know what else it can be other than a
kind of religious-like zeal that can cause a person blindly to say
the only abductions that occur are military. This I find
indefensible, and I think that a careful review of the evidence
certainly leads to that conclusion.
Another conclusion that I draw in this book is the runaway nature
of the black budget and, in a sense, what I’ve come to call a
Breakaway Civilization. What do I mean by that? Let me explain.
In the course of human history, we’ve had multiple civilizations
coexisting at the same time. Go back a thousand years – the
civilization of China was very different from the civilization of
the Near East or of Europe or of North or South America.
Over the course of the last millennia, of course, these
civilizations have increasingly come to merge and to interact with
each other. In a sense, the story of our civilization is the coming
together of these various cultures and civilizations, and yet we
have this history of separate coexisting civilizations, so it’s really
not a new concept.
Even during the Cold War, certainly the scientific infrastructures
of the United States and the Soviet Union didn’t share their
information with each other all that much, right? The Soviets had
this belief in the theories of a fellow named Trofim Lysenko --
utterly absurd biological theories, but the Soviet scientists held to
this as a part of state dogma through The Sixties. So my point
here is that we have examples of separate scientific
infrastructures.
What I’m suggesting in this book is that what we call the Black
World – existing as it does with, essentially, an infinite amount of
money to play with, for all intents and purposes, and an
incredible amount of secrecy within which to perform what they
do -- really no oversight [of] what would actually happen if after,
as is inevitably the case, a couple of brilliant genius Black World
scientists stumbled across a new scientific reality based on these
technologies that they’re looking over? They come up with some
really super-nifty ideas.
Would they share it with the rest of us? We have this idea that
there’s a spin-off technology involved, but is it necessarily so?
And what happens – as always is the case with science, where
one breakthrough leads to another one, which leads to yet another
one – the next thing, before you know it, they’re up here and the
rest of us are down here and that gap may in fact continue to
433
increase to the point where they have the ability to do things that
we would consider absolutely impossible.
They would be so different that with justice we can call them a
separate, or what I call Breakaway Civilization, with a
completely different understanding of certain scientific
principles, and certainly a different world view, because very
likely, as I believe, they’re interacting in a much more up-close
and personal way with “them” [points up] than we are, so they
have a different set of principles by which they live their lives.
You have to wonder how would they even be able to talk to us
easily about what they know? Just as if we were to be time
travelers going back a thousand years, how would we talk to
people of any society of a thousand years ago? How would be
able to tell them the things that we know? It might be difficult.
I think that’s something that we need to consider that’s already
happened.
I’ll do a little quick glimpse into my forthcoming book, Volume
3, which I have tentatively subtitled The Fight for Disclosure,
and it will cover the year 1992 to the present.
Really, nearly all of my research for that is done. It’s one reason
it took this book so long, is I ended up doing research for
Volumes 2 and 3 all at once, so I think it'll be a lot less time for
me to do this book.
These are just, off the top of my head on the plane flying here,
my thoughts on how this book is going to come together. The
Internet revolution, obviously... I don’t think it needs to be again
said here. What also happened in The Nineties is an explosion of
reported UFO sightings. It’s incredible.
Go to the National UFO Reporting Center on the web run by
Peter Davenport, and you’ll find [that] he catalogs about 5,000
UFO sightings each year. Now, most of these don’t get
investigated, clearly. They’re what you’d call raw reports, but
they’re pretty interesting.
I, myself, investigated two cases out of that database and I came
away feeling that both of those were legitimate. I’m not saying all
of these cases are legitimate, but I think a lot of them probably
are.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The fact is that in our own age, it’s easier and easier now to
report this. There’s no official government body that you can
report this to, which is a failure of our republic – very much so –
because, frankly, if you encounter what is the most amazing thing
you’ve ever seen in your life, one would think there should be an
agency in your government that is charged with dealing with it.
That’s why the government is supposed to be responsive to you,
right? And yet there isn’t any. But yet, there are places on the
Web and it’s easier and easier to report it, so there’s an enormous
amount there.
There has been the release not just of some legitimate documents.
Really, the glory age of freedom of information, I think, was in
the late ’70s, but what we’ve had since then are continued
releases of official documents, but also the release of a lot of
disputed documents. These are the so-called Majestic documents
– you can read all of them at the website of Ryan and Bob Wood
[ www.majesticdocuments.com ].
I think that a very good case can be made for the authenticity of
many of those documents; but, the point is that they’re disputed.
What that means is they’re of unknown provenance, and again, it
serves to muddy the waters of this field. I think it’s important that
we continue to try to do research on those documents to try to
authenticate them or not.
There have been a lot of initiatives in The Nineties and in our
own century toward Disclosure. I’ll deal with the Rockefeller
Initiative, the whole Roswell GAO – General Accounting Office
– fiasco of the early ’90s under the Clinton years.
The efforts of Dr. Steven Greer in The Nineties leading up to his
press conference in 2001 are very important; the efforts of my
friend, Stephen Basset, I think figure into this equation; the Sci-
Fi/ John Podesta event of a couple of years ago – all of these are
important.
In other words, what I think we’re seeing is very much an
increase in the attempts now for citizen groups publicly to grab
this issue and make major statements about the need to end the
cover-up – much, much greater than had ever happened in the
past; much, much more so.
There’s also a very significant part – and this conference is
obviously a very strong reflection of this – is the growth of what
we might call higher consciousnesses attitudes within the UFO
community. Back in The Eighties and Seventies, there was a little
bit of this. If you go back further to The Fifties, certainly what we
could call the contactees would be considered sort of “New
Agey” for their time, without a doubt.
But really, I think this is a different order of magnitude, what
we’ve been experiencing through The Nineties. l think it’s
probably connected with greater communication through avenues
like the Internet. Certainly, it’s an important part of what’s going
on, and it’s something that I’ll need to deal with in an appropriate
way in my book.
The other big thing, geopolitically, is the death of the nation-
state, the New World Order. Okay? This is probably the greatest
unremarked-upon -- at least in the mainstream -- event of our
lifetimes, at least geopolitically. Nations? I don’t even know what
434
a nation is anymore. Do they even exist? If groups of people [are]
living with the same language in an area... is that a nation?
Who's sovereign? Are you sovereign? Are we sovereign in our
country? Well, we are in theory and we must continue to fight for
this. In reality, our world has become something very different,
and this has got to be part of any study of the UFO realities in the
last 20 years because, again, we have to understand the true
nature of the structure of power.
A new Exopolitics; well, maybe that’s an overly-dramatic
statement. Look, any time we’re going to talk about Exopolitics –
that is, the relationship of us and them -- well, those are the two
variables, us and them, and we have to have a clear understanding
of both of these variables to be able to talk intelligently about
what we will call Exopolitics. It’s got to be done.
So, through all of this, as well, it is essential – absolutely
essential – that we ask ourselves: How do we know what we
know? What is our source of data? And who are we saying this
to?
What I mean here is that if we’re going to be talking about other
entities in the galactic civilization, we’d better damn-well back
up what we say with something other than: I got this through a
remote-viewed bit of information or through direct contact with
an alien being.
I’m very sorry. That’s not enough. It may be enough in a private
conversation with other researchers, if that’s what you believe.
Everyone’s entitled to have their beliefs; I speculate all the time.
But, we do ourselves a disservice as a community when we go
fast and loose with this kind of thing. We’ve got to be more
disciplined with how we speak to the world.
How would it be if, when you get an opportunity to say what
we’re believing to a larger media organization, we go just off
with this and look ridiculous? We’re not in a position where we
really can afford to do that. We have to be more careful.
We can speculate, but we must distinguish between what we
know and what we believe. They’re not the same. It’s not hard to
do – it just means qualifying one’s statements a little bit, okay? I
don’t think that’s asking too much.
Let’s look at us a little bit, let’s understand who we are. What
we’ve had is a situation where we’ve been retrieving exotic
technologies. Now, there’s a big statement by me, I grant. It is
something that I believe I back up sufficiently in my book. There
has been a great deal of information on this. Everyone knows
about the Roswell case, and there have been many others,
frankly.
These technologies – this is my hypothesis here, okay? – have to
be kept secret. You’ve got a cold war going on back in those days
– we can’t let the Russians see what we’ve got – requiring secret
budgetary appropriations, i.e. the creation of a black budget.
The UFO phenomenon is almost certainly the key factor in the
creation of the black budget world that we have today. Not the
only one, but one of the key motivators, I think.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Privatization... I’m just going to have to run through this...
runaway technological achievements: This is our secret
infrastructure. That’s part of us.
Okay. When most of us – I’m excluding the present company
here – but I think most people go through our lives with the
assumption that we get our sources of information from, like, the
media; and that would include TV, but also Internet.
We have a political system. We have an academic community in
which there is a back-and-forth kind of exchange there, so that
they also are responsive to us, in theory. The media, of course,
we’re told: Well, they give the public what the public wants.
And the academic world, of course, is supposed to be responsive
to the inherent value of truth and there’s a back and forth there.
The political system’s supposed to be responsive to us: Throw the
bums out, and so forth.
How is it really? Well this is how I think things have actually
shaped up. The arrow’s going one way here. [referring to
overhead picture] It’s going at you. And it’s not just media and
the politics and the academics. There’s a corporate system in
place. This is something that Exopolitical analysis doesn’t fully
get.
It’s great to talk about personal transformation, but we live in a
world of corporations and they don’t give a crap about personal
transformation. They’re driven by profit and shareholder value.
That’s all they care about. They can be driven by beautiful people
who really do care about the world, but if they’re not increasing
shareholder value, they’re gone.
Corporations have an iron law in which they must increase
shareholder value. That is their raison d’etre. If they’re not doing
that, then the CEO is gone, which means that they must behave in
certain ways, and those certain ways, unfortunately, are not
typically designed to increase higher consciousness among the
people. They are, instead, designed to take money out of your
bank account. That’s what they do!
That’s our world, and there’s a great deal of interaction between
those major worlds, and there’s other branches I probably could
have thought of if I had more time.
Under a rubric, though, of an elite – yes, there is an elite. I don’t
know what to call them anymore. I used to call them the National
Security State. Well, they’re not quite national.
They’re a little bit more than that, aren’t they? International
Financial Maximum Security State... toss in Entertainment State.
[Ed comment: The “elite” are the Supranational Sovereignty of
an Intellectual Elite and World Bankers; this term was coined by
David Rockefeller in 1991, when he thanked a gathering of the
Bilderberg attendees for their dedicated efforts to conceal and
cover up the truth of who the elite really are.]
If you looked at America as a room of 100 people, okay? And if
there’s $100 in the room – assuming the dollar’s still worth
something when we do this – one of those guys would own $40
to $45 of those dollars. That’s America. That’s the world, really.
435
And then another guy would have another $11 bucks, and then
the last 80 people would have really nothing.
So, that’s the room that has a political system; it’s got a media,
it’s got all these things that make it go. It’s not hard, really, to
figure out who’s going to be in the best position to manipulate all
of these things for his own benefit. Obviously, it's the guy with
the $40, $45 bucks.
That’s our world. It’s not complicated, and yet, of course, it’s
never analyzed in this way in our mainstream media, precisely
because they’re owned by that guy with the $45 bucks. [laughs]
So, we have to disabuse ourselves of the notion that we have a
truly open process in any way. We don’t. It’s not.
And this matters when we talk about UFO Disclosure, because
doesn’t it matter, if you get Disclosure from your government,
what the nature of that government is? If it’s a Republican system
[i.e. Constitutional Republic] that is responsive to you, that‘s one
thing, but what if it’s a proto-crypto-post-modern fascist state
instead?
Well, guess what? It is! We’re not moving toward democracy,
and by the way, as I said earlier today, I don’t think democracy is
bad. What I think is uninformed citizens of a democracy is a
very, very dangerous thing.
Are we moving toward a world of slaves and slave owners? Yes,
we are. That’s the direction. Escape into your own little private
Idaho, where you can play your video games and watch TV and
zone out. It’s a lot more fun, frankly, than dealing with all the
stuff we have to deal with. If your house is on fire, but you’re
having a really wicked-cool dream, who wants to wake up
[laughs] and deal with the crisis?
What is our world moving toward? We’ve decoded the human
genome. We’re making amazing strides right now in the world of
nanotechnology, what will be called quantum computing,
artificial intelligence, creation of a super race? Maybe. Getting
rid of redundant people like us? There’s that word... you hear that
word a lot these days: redundant. Isn’t that scary? It scares me.
People are not redundant.
So, we’re in a post-modern dystopia. We’re depleting our
resources -- we all know this; threatened cascading failure of the
global ecosystem [and] failing global infrastructures. Is there an
endgame scenario being discussed by those people in the know?
Are they planning something? Other people have discussed this
earlier. I’m going to let you just ponder that one yourself.
Now let’s look at them. Who are they? How can we learn about
them? This should always be at the forefront of our thinking.
Well, we can learn a little bit about them through reviewing some
of the UFO sighting literature. There are many cases of people
who have described... I mean, seemingly honest, very, very low-
key people have said: Yes, I had an encounter with a being that...
I don’t think they were human. There’s a lot of that and we can
learn a lot from that.
Abduction literature, yes, also, but let’s be careful, and the only
reason I say that is because when people are taken, or seem to be
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
taken, it’s not under the best of circumstances and there certainly
seems to be a lot of manipulation going on there.
Experiencers, remote viewers, yes, but we have to be very
careful. Let us not be irresponsible. I’ll leave it at that because
I’m running short.
Who are they? Here’re a few factors about them: They operate by
stealth, at least usually. They don’t seem to be that interested in
letting us deal with them in an open, public way. I think,
personally, that there’s more than one group involved, with
diverse agendas, probably.
According to abduction and other kinds of research, they’re
highly telepathic. They have an ability to manipulate human
thinking, human emotions, as do, in fact, a lot of current military
covert technologies.
They appear to have some mastery over space-time. They don’t
seem to have the kinds of emotional responses that we do, at least
not most of the time. Do they look like us? I think some would
suggest, well, maybe they do. It would be logical, if I were an
alien here on Earth, if I wanted to deal with the native species, I
would probably enhance or manipulate my own native humans
and have them do work from me.
Where are they from? Are they from another planet? Are they
from another time? Are they from another dimension? I don’t
know, I don’t know, don’t know.
Are they truthful or not? Ah! Okay. Again, let’s pretend that
we’re time travelers. You go back a thousand years, you talk to
the most intelligent person in the world a thousand years ago,
let’s say, I don’t know, some monk in an abbey who happens to
be a genius. You sit down with this person for a day and you try
to describe our world.
How many mental revolutions is that person going to be able to
handle before they just say: I can’t take it. Okay? Probably not
too many. Tell them that the Earth goes around the sun, or that
there are these little things called viruses, or, you know, all kinds
of technological capabilities. There’s only a certain amount that a
person can handle.
If they’re coming here to deal with us, I think it’s reasonable to
assume that they’re not telling us everything, either.
Did they create us? Did they manipulate us? Did they enhance
us? If so, do they see us as their investment? Do they see us as
their property? How long has this been going on?
There’re fallacies involved here. Here’s a fallacy: If they’re so
technologically advanced, they must have solved their major
social, economic, and political problems. You hear this a lot. I
hear it a lot. I don’t buy it at all.
Again, we go back in time. Let’s say all of us go back, with our
iPods, and our cell phones, and maybe a couple of laptops. It
doesn’t matter where we go. We meet some people of a thousand
years ago and they look at this laptop and they’re like: Whoa,
man, that’s cool! For you to have gotten to this level, you must
436
have solved all of your social, economic, and political problems!
[laughter]
And then, right, we would look at each other, we’d say: Well,
okay, you take care. Oh, and keep that on “safety”, you know.
Whatever. [laughter]
Okay? They may not have either. In fact, when you really think
about it, if you look at the species that we know of on Earth, it’s
only the highest intellectual species – us – that has the ability to
be sadistic, that tortures. Maybe the higher up the ladder you go,
the greater the range, from the angelic to the truly demonic? And,
again, maybe that’s the case with them. I don’t know.
Are they ready to welcome us with open arms to the cosmos?
This is a statement, I admit... This is what Dr. Steven Greer
actually, literally, said at Barcelona a couple of months ago. I
watched it on YouTube thinking: W-h-a-a-t? I’m sorry. I beg to
differ. I beg to differ. [applause]
There’s a Disclosure Paradox here: It’s impossible, it can never
happen, but it’s inevitable.
Let’s talk about some of the fallout of Disclosure. These are
some, and certainly not all, of the issues that a true Disclosure’s
going to have to deal with: Why have we been chasing them?
Why is this confrontation going on? How have you been able to
keep this secret, Mr. President? What does that say about the
structure of our secrecy?
Oh, that’s going to be a lot of fun to talk about.
What are all these secret programs about? Is there a secret space
program? That might a tough one for the President or any other
responsible agency to discuss. Yeah, we actually are going off-
world, people, and we’ve been going to Mars and the Moon for
“x” number of years.
You know, a lot of people might be a little upset about that,
having paid for a program that they may not have known about
and might have wanted some control over.
And then, dealing with who these other beings are may not be an
easy issue, understanding why they’re interested in us.
There will be challenges -- I guarantee you -- to the structures of
power in this world, politically, finance, industry; all of these. I
will not have time to go through these. This was an expansion of
what I was just telling you.
I will just pause here, though: Their interest in us. Why are they
interested in us? Well, it’s not that hard for me to see this one.
This is an easy one.
A hundred years ago we had horses pulling carts. That was our
world one hundred years ago. We’re now at the verge of having
your computer be as intelligent as you are. This is the latest from
AI experts. In ten years, they say, your computer will have the
full computational power of one human brain. That’s a major
milestone.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And of course, once they achieve that, they’re going to surpass
that. You’ll wake up and you’ll chat with your computer. Your
computer will sound like a person except, well, it’ll be a little bit
smarter than us, you know? Do a quadrillion number of
calculations per second or pull any data off the Internet like that
[snaps fingers], so... a really good personal assistant.
Let’s hope they don’t pull a Terminator, or Matrix, or an I, Robot
on us.
The point that I’m making is that we’re about to reinvent our
whole civilization. Other intelligent species that are looking at
this must be able to know this. They must be able to know that
we are about to leap into their world. We’ve actually been in their
world all along; we’ve only been asleep. Now, it is time for us to
wake up.
Many, many, many Disclosure problems – where do you want to
start? How do you undo a lie this big without angering so many
people, without threatening your own status?
Think back just a little more than two decades ago to Gorbachev
and his glasnost which, six years later, ended the Soviet Union.
The spiral of reform became too much. It just got out of his
control. You start talking about openness, and suddenly, the
Baltic States say: Great, we don’t want to be in your country
anymore. Remember how you took us over in 1940? Oh yeah,
that. Right. We’re gone. Okay.
So, what would happen after 60-plus years of the UFO secret?
Would there be a spiraling out of control? It might start off real
manageable; it might not end that way. Would there be
vigilantes? Let’s get the aliens. You’re an alien.
What if we got free energy? Everyone talks about free energy
like it’s going to be the greatest thing. What if it isn’t? We used
to have free energy – it was called oil. Oil, I mean, for all intents
and purposes was free for a long time and we did things with oil
that really weren’t all that heartwarming to the Earth.
Now, it’s true that with free energy, we might not have to hack
down the whole global ecosystem. You might be able to heat
your home forever for free, I guess. You might be able to make a
really neat bomb, too, and blow up the Pacific Ocean with that
same source of energy, if it’s not tightly controlled. I don’t know.
There’re a lot of possibilities here. The Fire of Prometheus can
be good and bad, and again, I’m not arguing that we shouldn’t
move ahead. We have no choice. History is bigger than we are.
Read Tolstoy, he’ll prove it to you – history is bigger. Things are
going to happen and we’re going to get it. It’s going to happen,
but it may not be fun. It may not be easy.
And in the short term, all right, if we discover through the secrets
that, well, there’s a better version of petroleum, we don’t need
that – hey, that’s great. Steel? Pfff. Awesome... we’ve got this
nano-tektite, whatever. Electronics?
Well, okay. In the long run, this is fabulous; in the short run, it
will mean major financial disruptions. How long will that last?
Ten years? More? It won’t be fun, or it may not be fun, certainly
not for those elites who may own those industries.
437
But, it may not be fun for us, either. It’s going to be a bumpy
ride, and nevertheless, it will happen. They can’t stop this. You
can’t stop history. The pace of change is so rapid, it’s so
revolutionary -- it will not be stopped.
Bill Joy, the co-founder of Sun Microsystems, was very
concerned, is concerned, over the runaway nature of Artificial
Intelligence, and is afraid of a kind of Terminator-like scenario,
or some other equally-bad thing that may happen, and for a
number of years, has been calling to other executives to try to
slow down or even stop the development of advanced AI.
It’s impossible. It’s spitting into the wind; you can’t win.
There’re always going to be forces that will... Let’s tweak this
program here; we’ll fix this software here. It’s going to happen,
and it’s the same with Disclosure.
We’re in a very unstable period of our history, it’s like
everything’s bouncing around. That is exactly my view of the
type of environment in which some monumental mistake will
occur in which the secrets will come out in some way. I don’t
know how. I don’t know what the trigger will be, but it’s going to
happen. When, I don’t know either. I predict within ten years.
Now, when it happens, there’s going to be attempts, you know
this, to control the spin. Okay? It’s going to happen, and so it’s
going to be our job, the job of any responsible researcher – and
your job -- to ensure that that does not happen.
We’ve got to make sure that the actual truth comes out, even if
it’s horrible, even if it’s horrible – especially if it’s horrible.
There’s no other way we’re going to be able to deal with the
reality, until we learn the full import of what is going on.
At the bottom here, I see not one enemy, but maybe two, maybe
several. By that, I mean the enemy isn’t just the national security
state which has been hiding this information from us for all these
years... they are a problem to deal with.
But, there may be some extraterrestrial, or interdimensional, or
non-human intelligences that may not be working toward our best
interests. If we don’t acknowledge that, at least as a distinct
possibility, I think we’re fools.
We have to, even if their intentions may not be bad. What
happens to indigenous cultures when they encounter a highly-
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
technically-proficient society? We know. It may be in the long That’s everything. Thank you very much. [applause]
run [that] things get better for them. I don’t know. You can
decide that for yourself, but the point is that we have to be If you have any questions, you can go to my website:
vigilant against a variety of fronts here. [www.keyholepublishing.com] [applause continues]

Hope and fear: Fear is an enemy. We know this because when Wow. Thank you. Thank you very, very much. [applause
we are afraid, we react irrationally to things, we don’t think continues]
through. Hope is an enemy, too, though. That sounds kind of
wrong, doesn’t it? Everyone likes to have hope: Don’t give up
hope. But, here’s the problem with hope: Hope also deludes. I just want to say that I have, unfortunately, a limited number of
books here. I will be at my table in the back, right outside there,
and if you are interested in the new book, I have it. I’ll be glad to
We need to have a cold eye. We have to be able to look at reality sign it for you. If I run out, they’re easily available on my website
in as alert and awake a fashion as we can. This is why I love the or through amazon.com.
title of this conference: Awake and Aware. That is exactly right.
Thanks very much. [applause]
What is true higher consciousness? Well, it starts with awareness,
with seeing things as they are, not as you want them to be, not as
you hope they can be – you have to see them as they are. It is KC: Richard, thank you.
only through going over that first large hurdle, I feel, that we can
really attain a true higher consciousness, a true awareness in BR: Thank you so much!
which we are awake, not asleep.
RD: Thank you.
Kerry often writes in her emails: Awaken the dreamer! I think
that is exactly the attitude that we all must have. We’ve been in a [applause continues]
dream state and we have to wake up.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription
Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several
years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

438
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Robert O. Dean Lecture Transcript
Sept 19, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Introduction by Jordan Maxwell:
JORDAN MAXWELL (JM): We’re very fortunate to have
Robert – Bob – Dean with us because Bob Dean is really an
inspiration to everyone.
Bob Dean, whether you know it or not, kind of dropped out of
sight for a while and hasn’t been doing too many conferences and
not very much radio. I talked with him recently and he confided
in me that he hasn’t felt much like talking because he’s been
doing so much of it.
I felt the same way because I have been kind of quiet, myself,
since 9/11. I became very disenchanted with the country I live in
since 9/11, but seeing Robert Dean coming back into the
speaking circuit was an inspiration to me.
I’m very inspired to see my dear friend Robert Dean decide to
come back and begin to talk with us again because I believe what
he has to say, and just his appearance, just his person, is enough
to inspire many people. So, that’s why I asked if I could have the
pleasure of announcing him, my dear friend Robert Dean; I call
him Bob.
So, he’ll be here any moment, if you will take your seats.
Robert Dean and I go back a long time. Back in Mesa, Arizona,
back in the very early ’90s, I met Bob Dean for the first time at a
439
conference. He was speaking there and afterward he was so
gracious.
I was very impressed with Bob Dean and he invited me to go out
to dinner with him. I was nervous – I'm in the company of
someone I admire – but he was very encouraging to me and he
was very easy to befriend.
So, I’ve been inspired by Bob Dean over the years. We just
talked recently and as I said, he told me that he has decided to
begin to speak to the public again, which has actually inspired me
to do the same.
[applause/ shouts/ whistles]
There’s so much I would like to be able to say that I have been
quite literally afraid to say in public. The Bush regime frightened
me, scared me, and if you know what was really going on with
the Bush regime, it would scare you too. It was a frightening
presence on American soil, the Bush regime. What we’ve got
now is not much better.
Now, the next speaker up is Bob Dean... [4:02 - overtalk – Bob
Dean and Bill Ryan can be heard discussing technical stuff in the
foreground.] He's been an inspiration to me. He is back now on
the speaking circuit.
Speaking, as Bob and I do, almost all speakers at these
conferences will tell you that it’s not an easy being a speaker at
conferences. There are many downsides to doing this kind of
work.
[overtalking] It’s [unclear] sometimes and costs a lot. It costs you
in relationships, because you’re on the road a lot and it’s not easy
to speak to a [unclear] audience, believe me.
But, there are some upsides to being a speaker, there are some
perks and nice things that you get from speaking.
One is that you meet some very interesting and fascinating
people, and you become friends with some very lovely and
decent people, and Bob Dean is one of the finest men I’ve ever
met.
I want to be able to introduce Bob as not only my dear friend, but
one who has not only impressed me, but inspired me. As I said to
you before, now I’m saying it for his benefit, for him to hear.
Because he has come back into the speaking circuit and began to
talk with us again – I think it would be a loss if he didn’t – I have
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
been inspired to come back into the speaking circuit and begin
talking again. [applause]
So, without further ado, the man I’m introducing I love and
admire, and a fascinating man, and I would suggest you listen
closely, because he’s got a lot to talk about that he knows first-
hand. Robert – Bob -- Dean.
[applause/ shouts/ whistles – Bob hugs Jordan as he comes on
stage.]
BOB DEAN (BD): The check is in the mail, Jordan.
JM: As long as it doesn’t bounce, that's the main thing.
BD: It won’t bounce.
JM: Okay.
BD: Thank you.
Presentation by Bob Dean:
BD: I was in the back of the room back there and I didn’t realize
that this scoundrel here, Bill Ryan, was going to come up with an
overhead projector, so I had to rush up to my room and grab my
transparencies. [laughter] So, I’ve got a few pictures to show to
you that I think you might find interesting. [applause]
I want to say it’s an honor to be introduced by someone like
Jordan. He’s one of the foremost scholars of our time, and I
honor and respect him, and as he said, we’re old friends; we go
back a long way.
I also want to say a word or two about the young man who was
up here on this podium before I showed up here. Rich Dolan is
very special. He’s probably one of the foremost historians of our
time, and I strongly urge you – encourage you – to not only buy
and read his first volume, but get the second, because I’m waiting
expectantly for Volume Three.
That young man has pulled the cover back from this cover-up and
the scandal that we’ve been living through for the last 60, 70
years, and I take my hat off to him.
I’ve known him for some time and I’m so encouraged by young
men like him that are picking up and going with this program,
because as I’m sure all of you know, I’m a member of the old
guard and we’re diminishing daily – literally. Not a week or a
month goes by that I don’t hear that some of my old cronies are
gone.
They’re not gone... they’ve just crossed back; they’re Home now,
but I miss them, and I’m gratified to see some of the young men
coming along that are filling the space for us.
I’m also gratified to look out and see you guys because you’re the
reason I’m here. I don’t speak publicly much anymore. I find it
inconvenient. I hate like hell to travel in airplanes.
440
I got back from Spain here at the end of July and I had to go to
bed for a damn week. [laughter]
Then I went through Kennedy Airport and I was outraged when I
looked around at Kennedy. It’s a national disgrace. I mean, it’s
dirty, the broken furniture, the service is rotten, the restrooms are
filthy and most of them are closed. It’s terrible to walk through
Kennedy having gone through the airport at Barcelona and seeing
new and modern and...
Oh my God! Those Spaniards are really something else! They put
on a show there, in Barcelona, the last week in July that was
outstanding. 1,500 people showed up and they had standing
room.
It was a hell of a good conference and I was honored to be invited
[along with] Steven Greer, Steven Bassett, who I will touch upon
briefly in a few minutes. I was gratified by the Spaniards –
they’re great hosts and they’re very enlightened and very
interested in this subject.
As many of you, I’m sure, know, this subject has been my
favorite subject now for over the last 20 years. I’ve been on this
journey for 45 years, but I’ve been speaking publicly for the last
20.
I speak bluntly, openly, and I violate my National Security Oath
every time I open my mouth, [applause] and I plan to violate my
National Security Oath tonight. [applause/ hoots]
But again, a special thanks for you guys because I wouldn’t be
here if it weren’t for you. I’m so encouraged by the people I meet
at these conferences because, not only are you open-minded, but
you’re enlightened, and you’re enthused, because I think you’ve
learned, as I have, that this subject is, in my opinion, the greatest
story in human history, because it is the story OF human history.
We’re not alone, guys, and we have never been alone. We are
members of an infinite universe filled with infinite intelligent life.
We have had an intimate interrelationship with several advanced
extraterrestrial intelligences now for, oh, at least 10,000 years.
The evidence is pretty overwhelming that at least one, perhaps
two, of those different groups had a hand in engineering the
human genome over 100,000 years ago. That evidence is literally
overwhelming.
Now, we’re going to touch upon a whole bunch of stuff, and I
want you to understand, I have come to the point in my life where
I have become almost sympathetic to the government for keeping
the lid on this thing.
They don’t know how to lift the lid on this subject. They don’t
know how to lift the lid on Pandora’s Box, because when they
lift the lid just a little tiny bit – boom – the whole damn thing is
going to come out, and nobody in government is prepared for
that, because the story is so damn big.
I know that many of you – probably most of you – are aware of
the famous Brookings Report. NASA gave a contract to the
Brookings Institute in the late ’50s, and the basic point was
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
simply this: Try to find out – What should we do if we, in the
future, should encounter advanced extraterrestrial intelligence?
They worked on this thing for three years, published it in ’61,
delivered it to Congress in ’61, and they concluded as a result of
this study that, if we should, indeed at some point, run into
advanced extraterrestrial intelligence, it would probably be a
good idea to keep your mouths shut and not tell the masses of
people.
Now, Margaret Mead was on the committee, and she’d had
experiences in the South Pacific with primitive societies where
they had been confronted by our advanced culture, and those
primitive societies shriveled and died. The conclusion of the
Brookings study was that, if we, indeed, would encounter
advanced extraterrestrial intelligence, we probably shouldn’t tell
the masses of people because sociologically, theologically,
scientifically, it would be a damn disaster.
So, they published that study and it literally became national
policy. It’s one of the major reasons why the lid has been kept
down so tightly on this thing for so long.
As I said, it’s not simply that we’re being visited by guys from
other planets. It isn’t simply that we’re being visited by guys
from other star systems, nor are we being visited, you know, from
other galaxies. Good God! Those are all given.
They also learned – and they knew that when I retired in ’76 –
that we’re being visited by guys from other dimensions. They’re
coming through portals, apparently. They create portals,
apparently, and they’re coming and going from other dimensions.
The more advanced societies we have encountered have been
multidimensional.
It’s no wonder that our ancestors deified these dudes back 10,000
years ago. I think there are people today who would deify them,
if they were to confront them and see what they can do, and
understand where they’re from, and what their capabilities are.
You would think that it was almost godlike to have that kind of
technology.
So, over the years I have come to a point where I’ve almost
begun to be patient and tolerate of the government’s lies – but not
quite. [laughter] Not quite. I’m so fed up with government lies; I
don’t even know where to start. [applause/ whistles] You too,
huh?
Last week, I was over at the Bay Area conference and a couple of
people said: What have we learned in the last year since you were
here?
I said: Well, we learned that the American people elected a black
President.
Isn’t that pretty damned impressive? Who would have ever
thought that the American people could elect a black President?
Listen, guys, I’m from the last century; that is dynamite to me.
My heart goes out to that kid, because he’s likeable, he’s
personable, and he’s bright, and I wish him well. I hope to hell he
can pull it off; he’s got so much -- damn much -- on his plate.
441
But, he ain’t going to disclose this subject any time soon because
he’s not ready for this. I don’t even think he’s been briefed yet on
what this is all about.
You all know the story, what happened to Jimmy Carter, who
promised everybody that, when he was elected, he was going to
release all of the UFO information?
He got into Washington and he got his National Security briefing.
He walked out his briefing with tears in his eyes. Apparently, the
Director of Central Intelligence said: Mr. President, you don’t
have a high-enough clearance, Sir, to have access to all this
material.
Now, can you believe that? The Director of Central Intelligence
says: Also, Sir, you don’t have a need to know.
And poor old Jimmy just... he wilted, and as a result, he never
said Boo about anything during his four years in office. Promises
went down the tube.
Who was the Director of Central Intelligence? Some guy by the
name of George Herbert Walker Bush.
Now, we’re beginning to put pieces together here. The puzzle is
beginning to form here. Who’s sitting on top of this damn cover-
up? [sighs] Oh my.
Now, I want to share something with you here. The guys in Spain
asked me continually: When is there going to be Disclosure?
Good God, you guys, it’s been years and years and years now.
We expect the U.S. government to expose this. When you going to
do it?
And I said: Guys, [don’t] hold your breath. It ain’t going to
happen any time soon, because it’s too big a story.
And then, of course, Greer and Bassett were there at the
conference, and... Well, let me give you a small parable here. I’ve
got a little parable I’ve prepared. It’s called The Three Stevens
and the Apocalypse. [laughter]
That sounds religious enough, doesn’t it? – The Three Stevens
and the Apocalypse.
I want to now touch upon that word, apocalypse, because that’s
another word that ticks me off. I am so pissed off at the number
of people who misuse that word.
Most of my fundamentalist friends – and I have a few, still, yet,
after all these years – keep talking about the Four Horsemen of
the Apocalypse. Oh my God. We’re doomed, you know. War,
Famine, Plague, Pestilence – the Four Horsemen are riding.
For God’s sake! The Four Horsemen have been riding for 10,000
damn years! [laughter] But, most of them never really grasp the
meaning of the word apocalypse. It’s a Greek word and it has
several meanings: the revealing, the uncovering, and the
disclosing. Of what? The truth.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And you’re living in the middle of the apocalypse. You’ve been
living in it for the last 10 to 20 years and you’re going to be
living in it for another 20 or 30 years. The revealing, the
uncovering, and the disclosing is taking place as you sit here and
as you breathe. It is taking place now.
But, I got into this little tangle with Greer and Bassett. I respect
them both. They’re decent guys. I’ve known Steven Greer for
years.
They keep hammering away. They have these conferences in
Washington and they keep prodding the congress and they keep
prodding the government: You’ve got to have a committee, you’ve
got to reveal this material, you’ve got to tell the American people
the truth, blah-blah-blah.
And the government... pardon me, but they give them that middle
finger, you know? In the air? Excuse me, ladies, I’m sorry. That’s
rather rude, but the government does that to Greer and Bassett,
and they go back and they say: Well, maybe next week, maybe
next month. Oh, a new administration. Oh, we’ve got Podesta,
who worked for Clinton. We’ve got Panetta, who worked for
Clinton, and we’ve got a young President, who I believe, is
honest and transparent and is going to tell us the truth.
I said to Bassett and Greer: Don’t hold your breath, guys. It ain’t
going to happen. That new President ain’t going to put that on
his plate, not if he can avoid it, because he’s not going to get the
whole story right now. He’s got so damn much piled up outside of
his Oval Office, he can hardly get in and out of it... and you all
know the story on that.
Now, who’s the other Steven? Ah! A young man in Hollywood –
Spielberg. Now, where does he fit into this thing?
Well, when I was asked about Disclosure: Is it going to happen?
and I say: No/ yes, yes/ no, no/ yes. And everybody’s saying:
What the hell’s he talking about?
Disclosure has been under way for some time. Steven Spielberg
made a bunch of movies. He made E.T., which, I think, most of
you have probably seen. That was for the kids.
He made another one called Close Encounters of the Third Kind,
and that was for the big guys. And then he made a television
series called Taken, which was dynamite.
They tell me -- and I’ve got this from sources that I trust -- that
he’s got two separate programs in the mill: another movie, and
perhaps, another TV series that he’s working on that they’re
going to come up with, hopefully in the next few years.
Now, these movies, as they come out, affect people. There’s not a
one of you here in the audience that wasn’t, you know, affected
by E.T. It was cute; it was a kid’s story, really. And I think
there’s not a one of you who wasn’t touched at the closing scene
of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, when the guys piled
aboard that ship and off it went.
And then Taken, which I think, ran for a number of weeks. I can’t
remember how many episodes it was.
442
VOICE FROM AUDIENCE: Twenty.
BOB: Twenty? Good God, yes. Well that’s a major program. It
was powerful, well written, and dynamite. It had so much
classified material in it... but most people, I don’t think, ever
realized that they were looking at classified material.
Then there was another guy out in Hollywood who I got to know.
A number of years ago, I was honored to be invited to be a
speaker at the Mensa Regional Conference in Orange County. I
was honored to be invited and I went and spoke to the Mensa
crowd.
The guest of honor at that particular regional conference was a
dude by the name of Chris Carter. He was the producer/director
of the X-Files, as most of you know.
After presentations and all, and drinks, you know, I got him aside
and we’re standing there sipping away – fruit juice, of course.
[laughter] I pulled him over and I says: Chris, you got to level
with me.
I says: I’ve been watching your program here now for some time.
– I think it had been underway for about six years at that time –
and I said: It’s impressive. Some of your stories are dynamite,
some of your stories aren’t worth the powder to blow them away,
but it’s a pretty decent series.
But, I says, I want to ask you something. There are three
incidents, three episodes of your X-Files that I happen to know
are highly classified government secrets.
I’ve been on the inside, I knew these things to be classified and
here they are. I’m seeing them on the X-Files, for God’s sake.
And I says: How the hell do you guys do that?
He says: Oh, I’ve got some great writers.
And I said: Bullshit. Nonsense. Poppycock, you know. What is it
my good old British ancestors...? Balderdash. [laughter]
I said: You can’t tell me that your writers have come up with
classified material that they’ve dramatized that are right on and
are still classified.
He looked around and he got a sheepish grin on his face and he
says: Well, yeah, we’ve been getting some story ideas from a
variety of sources.
I says: Where?
He says: Well, you know, I can’t really say, but we’ve been
getting some promotional ideas from different people.
I said: Well, you’re right on, and I laid them out for him, these
three particular cases that were classified and still are classified.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And all he did, he looked at me sheepishly and he grinned and he Martin for almost 30 years. I invited David to speak at a
says: You ain’t seen nothing yet. Stay tuned. And it ran for conference in Phoenix some years back. Wendelle Stevens and I
another two years. put on a program and we got hold of Froning.

But there, again, is what I wanted to point out to you is what

Spielberg was involved in, what Chris Carter is involved in, and
what some of the directors and writers of the Stargate series and
the Star Trek series...

In, from time to time, little bits and pieces of material are injected
into those story lines that are not fiction. They’re not science
fiction, they’re science fact. But, they’re introduced in such a way
that you don’t know it – you don’t recognize it. It hits you at
what’s known as the subliminal level.

When I tell you that Disclosure ain’t going to happen, then I tell
you that Disclosure is happening now, I’m referring to that
subliminal educational program that is underway that you’re all
being subjected to. You’re getting the uncovering and the
revealing and the Disclosure in subtle ways that you don’t even
recognize.
And you’re going to get more of it because the program,
apparently, is rather successful and the guys who put it together
are rather pleased at your responses. You’re going to be getting
more stories, and you’re going to get some stories that are so far
out, you’re going to say to yourself: Good God, that couldn’t
happen. But good God! – it is happening.
Ben Rich, before he retired from Lockheed Martin, made some
comments to a number of people there, California. -- we’re in
California -- forgive me, I’m from Arizona. I baked my gourd in
Phoenix for the last six to eight months and I lose it sometimes.
[laughter]
This program is underway. It’s subtle; it’s continuous; and it is
subliminal education; it’s affecting you -- it’s affecting
everybody and you’re going to see more of it.
We knew he was brilliant and we knew he’d been on the inside of
research at Lockheed Martin for so long. We got David to come
down and speak at our conference there in Phoenix, and he was
getting up in years – David’s gone Home now. He was getting up
in years and he shared some things with us.
Froning said: You know, Bob, he said, I’ve been retired now for
10 years. He says: Before I retired, I was in the Advanced
Systems Division of Lockheed Martin and we were dealing with
something we called modified field propulsion – variable field, he
said.
Of course, he began to lose me immediately; I didn’t know what
he was talking about. Matter/ antimatter conversion. Exotic field
tension. Wormholes.
He said: It will modify time and space, and he says: We have had
transluminal flight for over 30 years.

They did it in the Stargate series. They did it in Star Trek – Kirk,
Jean Luke Piccard and the rest of them from the Enterprise. They
slip little bits and pieces in from time to time where you think:
Ooo, isn’t that exciting? Isn’t that way out?
Guys, it’s not that way out. Ben Rich said, before he retired -- he
says: We’re 100 years ahead of establishment science.
And I had to stop again, and I says: Hold it. Transluminal,
hyperluminal, flight? I says: You’re talking about faster-than-
light, for gosh sakes.
He said: Yeah, we’ve had it now for 30 years. Now this was from
David Froning who’d spent the biggest chunk of his life as an
advanced systems engineer for Lockheed Martin.

This is a guy who had a right to know and he had a need to know
and he was in the inside of the program. We’re 100 years ahead
of establishment science – the stuff that normally is understood
by guys in universities, you know, on the street... Rich says we’re
100 years beyond that.
And he said: You know, we could take E.T. home. Now, the
movie was out at about that time, and you know the story. The
little dude says: E.T. go home, E.T. wants to go home. Rich says:
We can take E.T. home.
Now, Ben Rich has been dead for ten years, for God’s sake!
I knew another Lockheed Martin scientist who has passed away,
a guy by the name of David Froning who worked with Lockheed
443
Then we get the material from Ben Rich, and somebody said to
Rich, he said: Man, what the hell are you really talking about?
He goes to the blackboard – his big [unclear] for retirement, I
think, was one of the major hangars over there – he goes up and
he writes: UnFunded Opportunities.
I say: What the hell are you talking about?
He takes the chalk and he circles U, F, and O, and then he left the
stage and walked out the door, and they’re all thinking: Good
God! What? This man’s lost it here. UnFunded Opportunities, U-
F-O?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
What he was inferring and saying literally in their face: Yes, we
have reverse-engineered technology from alien craft. And we’re
flying it and it works! We can take E.T. home!
Now, one of the reasons I get so ticked off... You have to forgive
me here, I’m getting old. I don’t have the patience I used to have.
The rumor has been going around that I’ve turned out to be a
mean, rotten old fart. [laughter] Cynical, you know? Grumpy.
Well, that’s not entirely true. I like to think, as Henry Higgens
said, that I have the milk of human kindness by the quart in every
vein!
But, I can’t really pull it off. I guess I am getting kind of grumpy
in my old age.
Guys, I’m getting angry. I really am getting angrier every day
when I think about the con job that’s being pulled on you and
300-million other Americans on a daily basis, where they are
literally conning you to the point they’re taking you to the
cleaners. They’re stealing you blind and then they’re lying to you
about it.
I have a list of... I call it my Pissed-Off List. [laughter] You
know, when you’re old and you’re sitting in retirement, you have
to spend your time doing something, [laughter] so I prepared this
list.
Top of the list are politicians. [laughter] And I say, repeatedly,
that you guys have the best congress money can buy. That bunch
of clowns in Washington who think of themselves, call
themselves, congress – that we should build special prisons for
them.
I’m serious. [laughter] I think about half of them should be put up
in front of a judge and sent off for ten years, because they’re a
bunch of damn thieves. [applause]
Not only are they molesting children... and what the hell, the
Governor of North Carolina? South Carolina? – Big scandal – his
love affair is in Argentina. The hell with his wife and kids; his
love affair is in Argentina.
And then we’ve got congressmen who are guilty of the same
thing. Some of them are gay; and I’m not putting them down
because they’re gay. I’m putting them down because they lie
about it.
As I say, guys, we’ve got a mess of clowns back there. What was
it that Will Rogers said? The most permanent, ongoing, self-
continuing program in the world of liars and cheats is the United
States Congress – and Will’s been gone for a long, long time.
So, I get my dander up. I vent my spleen when I come and talk to
guys like you, and I will say this to you: That the next election
for congress and the next one for the President, think carefully
about what clowns you want to send off to Washington. I mean
examine them carefully, because they’re supposed to represent
you and they’re not doing a very good job of it.
Okay, excuse me. I do have tendency to ramble a bit, because
I’ve got so damn much to cover. [sighs].
444
Oh yes, one of the top of my lists is NASA. You know that
crowd? Never a Straight Answer? [laughter] – NASA.
This Newsweek came out a couple of weeks back. I’m sure most
of you may have seen it. This is a shameful issue. This is a
shameful article. In Search of Aliens, it says, and then it says:
NASA is out there looking. [laughter]
Now, while I was in Spain, the Spaniards asked me – You know,
just as I was going over there, we were celebrating 40 years of
Apollo 11: Gee that was something, wasn’t it? We put a couple of
guys on the Moon. We’re patting ourselves on the back, and
we’re tooting our little horns: Wasn’t that great? Wasn’t that
cool? Weren’t we special?
And I had to say to some of my Spanish friends over there: You
could never trust this damn bunch over at NASA. They did go to
the Moon, but that was only half the story. The story was what
they found when they got there, and the story was what the
photographs had taken.
Now, you probably know this, but in case you don’t, I’ll tell you
again. NASA admitted about two years ago, I think about two
years back, that they had “inadvertently” erased 40 rolls of film
from the Apollo program. That release went out over the media
and Congress didn’t say a word – no peep, no poop, nothing. The
media itself, they reported it and pffft! – off into the wind.
NASA says: We inadvertently, mistakenly – gee, we’re sorry –
we erased 40 rolls of film from the Apollo program.
Now, we’re talking about hundreds, if not thousands, of
individual photographs in those 40 rolls. They erased them.
Why? Because they showed what they ran into on the Moon.
They showed what they ran into on the way to the Moon. They
showed what they ran into when they got there. This has got to
go! We can’t let that out!
But some nitwit in NASA had forgotten that NASA had given a
contract to the Japanese Space Agency back in the ’60s, probably
involving big bucks, where the Japanese – sharp bunch of guys
over there – bought every negative or every shot of every picture
taken by the entire Apollo program and they’ve got it in their
computers in Japan.
And NASA evidently forgot that. [laughter]
Now, listen, you have to understand something. There are damn
fine guys in NASA. There are good scientists; there are some fine
people working there. I’m not putting them down; I take my hat
off to them and I respect them.
The ones that I’m really pissed off at are the administrators, the
policy makers, the politicians. They forgot that they had sold all
this to Japan.
Lo and behold, I’m at a conference in Tokyo. I was a guest of
Junichi Yaoi, one of the foremost Japanese researchers and UFO
experts. I was on national television in Japan.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
While I was there, I was provided some photographs taken by
NASA and the Apollo program that the Japanese Space Agency
has been sitting on top of for a long, long time. And I’m about to
show you a couple right now.
[shouts/ hoots/ whistles/ applause]
[reading transparency] Okay, this is negative nine. This is Apollo
Systems A-13, yeah, Apollo Systems 13. Bear with me while I
get this thing up there. [positions transparency for overhead
viewing]
Okay. This photograph was taken by Apollo 13. Now, you may
remember Apollo 13. It was the one that never made it to the
Moon. They had a tiny explosion on the way, where an oxygen
tank blew up and they were barely able to get to the Moon, go
around, and barely able to get home.
But they were not alone on that trip. So, while they were out and
away, going and coming, they had little windows and they
snapped pictures.
This is one picture that was held by the Japanese Space Agency.
You can see the Japanese writing here.
Anyhow, this is the Moon, upper left. These two objects here, B
and C, are fairly large circular disks of some kind. But over here
– “A” – which is moving into the scene – here is the positive and
here is the negative. I hope you can all see that.
[pointing] This is a circular disk with a dome. Here’s the Moon,
another disk, but this dude is coming into the picture [“A”], and
here we are. Here’s the photo and here’s the negative down here.
This object is five miles long.
So, you wonder why NASA is keeping its mouth shut? How can
they talk about something like that? How can they release
something like that to you? An object we encountered on the way
to the Moon that’s five miles long!
Now, just give some thought. Try to consider a technology, a
culture, a civilization that can not only build something like that,
put it in space, put it in orbit around the Earth, but staff it and
man it with... how many?
I had the pleasure of being on a couple of aircraft carriers. My
son is a career Naval officer, spent 14 years on aircraft carriers,
Nimitz-class, atomic-powered carriers.
For those of you who don’t know, they are impressive. They’re
1,000 feet long. They have a crew complement of 5,000 men!
These big nuclear Nimitz-class carriers have 5,000 guys in their
crew! They’re massive. They’re gigantic. They’re unbelievable.
Now, we were joking one day about it, Eric and I – my son –
what kind of a crew would this dude have with, you know, five
miles? What are they doing over there? What is their pastime?
What is their function? What is their purpose?
And, having been on a Nimitz carrier a couple of times, you
know, they’re very impressive – soda fountains, snack bars and
445
all the rest of it to make the guys comfortable and all. I
anticipated – I’ve assumed – that aboard an object out there, five
miles long, you’d have bowling alleys, restaurants, theaters,
[laughter] you know, all kinds of entertainment. Because we’ve
learned over the years that if you’re an alien and you are involved
in human beings, you need entertainment! [laughter/ applause]
So, they probably have saunas aboard, you know. And probably
the most favorite pastime, I would think, is watching human
television. Think for a moment, having watched it yourself,
[laughter] and all the idiotic crap that goes-on on TV, and
imagine what a bunch of guys from another star system are
thinking.
They’re rolling in the aisles, probably, laughing about these
unbelievable monkeys down there. [laughter] They’re watching
our stories – Dancing with the Stars? – and they are supposed to
think of us as being intelligent, and advanced, and sophisticated?
Oh, my! [sighs]
Okay. This is the first shot. [inserts next transparency into
projector] Here is the second one. This is negative 10.
Now, that big dude has moved over into the middle of the frame
and another object has showed up over here; was estimated at
being two miles long, but this one, five miles. Here is the print
and here is the negative.
It’s the same object, but it seems to have moved somewhat.
We’re not getting a full side-view like we did in the other picture,
we're getting it a little elongated, and there are a couple of
circular disk-like objects here.
Apparently it’s like a carrier. It puts its aircraft out and brings
them back. It’s probably a carrier for disks, alien disks that we
find in our skies all the time.
But again, when you start considering the magnitude of the size
and the implications of what it means, then you can almost
sympathize with the authorities about: We can’t tell those people
these things. No, no, no. They’re not ready for it.
No, no, no, hell! They weren’t ready for it! They’re the ones that
were scared to death. You guys can probably handle it, but they
can’t? [applause]
[shows next photo] Ah! That was only the beginning of the story.
Over the years I’ve been fortunate in that I have been lucky in
finding smart people in the most unlikely places.
I’m speaking at a conference at the Bay Area a number of years
ago and a little dude shows up by the name of Norman Bergrun.
Norman retired from NASA after almost 30 years. He was an
engineer and a photographic expert, and he and a number of
others were responsible in putting together what they called the
Voyager Program.
In the late ’70s, astronomers and guys in NASA had discovered
some anomalous things happening in the rings of Saturn.
I love that word anomalous. Things were happening, but they
didn’t know what the hell they were. They didn’t know how to
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explain it. So, what they did, they put together a multimillion
dollar program called Voyager, and they sent Voyager to the
rings of Saturn in 1980.
When Voyager One got in the rings of Saturn, it began taking
pictures. The pictures were sent back to NASA, and they were
astounded – literally astounded. They got stuff they didn’t expect.
Now, before I go into detail about these photos, I will tell you
that Norman Bergrun, a little dude about five feet tall, you know,
pink cheeks, little bow tie, brilliant as hell. Last year, when I saw
him at the Bay Area, he was 87.
I have been unable to reach him. I’ve tried through the phones,
my wife tried with the computer – can’t reach Norman. I don’t
know whether he’s passed over and gone Home, or what
happened.
All I know is that last year in the Bay Area, I introduced him and
they mobbed him. The little dude had a box of books, and after I
introduced him he got mobbed, and he sold every book he had at
$50 bucks a pop.
But Norman was what I say: There are some good folks in
NASA, honest men who would like to tell you everything they’ve
learned and everything they know.
So, anyhow, Norman: After frustration, and time passed, in 1986,
Norman decided to blow the whistle and publish the photographs
that the Voyager One took in the rings of Saturn.
He couldn’t get his book published in the United States. Wonder
why?! US publishers wouldn’t touch him, wouldn’t even talk to
him. The little dude had to go to Aberdeen, Scotland, to get his
book published and [points to overhead photo] that’s the cover of
his book. [Ed. note: titled Ringmakers of Saturn]
It may be available; you maybe can find a copy if you try here,
there, or wherever. I hate to tell you what they might cost now,
because they’re real collector’s items.
But, I was delighted that I was able to discover him and present
him to the conference in the Bay Area last year. The response
from the audience was overwhelming. His little face lit up and he
gave me a big hug, tears in his eyes. But he published his book in
Aberdeen, Scotland, and it is a dynamite book.
446
[pointing to overhead photo] Now, on the cover, this you see here
on the right is part of the B Ring of Saturn. You know, there are
A, B, C, a whole bunch of rings; gigantic. Saturn’s a giant planet
and these rings are incredible.
This thing here [indicating close-up of the orange dot on the book
cover]: self-luminous, obviously artificial construction, obviously
under intelligent control, because it moves around in the rings of
Saturn. They don’t know what the hell it is, but it’s larger than
our Moon – an intelligent, constructed, artificial object larger
than our Moon moving around throughout the rings of Saturn
wherever it will go.
We get a picture of it and we don’t know what to say, we don’t
know what to do, we don’t know how to respond. Bigger than our
Moon! Ah, that’s only part of the story.
[changes photo] Here we go. This is in the A Ring and the
statistics on this will blow your mind. This object here is an
artificially-constructed [artificial object], as Norman says; NASA
called it an electromagnetic vehicle. That dude is 2,000 miles
long, over 450 miles in diameter. But 2,000 miles long!
And here’s another self-luminous artificial object [zooms in on
the large dot; same photo], about the size of our Moon, that
apparently moves here, there, and everywhere, wherever it will
go, obviously under intelligent control.
But, consider this thing. Consider the civilization, the technology
[and] the culture that can not only build something like that, but
put it in space, move it here and there, wherever they will, for
whatever purpose.
Norman says he thought they were making the rings, which is
why he titled his book The Ringmakers.
I said: Norman, did you ever stop to think that they might be
mining the rings? We’ve concluded from several missions –
Voyager One was only the first of a whole bunch of them – that
the rings are made up of minerals from perhaps God knows how
many eons back when the planets were being formed.
And I said: Stop to think about an advanced technology. They
could mine those rings, and those minerals are gold mines, you
know? Talk about nutrients! You’ve got all that good stuff.
And he says: You know, I didn’t think about that, that they might
be mining them.
God, I wish I knew what happened to Norman. I lost track of
him. But, his book is a monument to the fact that there are some
decent men in NASA who want the truth told.
Now, I want to ask for a show of hands. How many of you are
overwhelmed and shocked at these facts about those objects out
there? Oh, a few! Overwhelmed and shocked! Well, that’s good.
That’s good.
I was overwhelmed and shocked the first time I saw it and the
first time I began to put it together, and considered what it meant.
Because there we’re getting to the important thing here: What
does this mean?
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Now, I assume most of you are aware and familiar with a brilliant
educator, a physicist in New York by the name of Michio Kaku,
brilliant young man, a quantum physicist, theoretical physicist.
Michio has come up with what he considers to be a possibility of
four different kinds of advanced civilizations: Type I, II, III and
IV.
You, by the way, are members of the Zero-Zero Type
civilization. [laughter] Not that you didn’t know that, but you
haven’t quite reached Type I yet.
The conclusion many of us have reached is that we’re looking at
the results of at least a Type II civilization. [referring to the photo
again]
Now, how do these guys out there look upon us? Really, how do
you think they think of us?
I have a pretty good idea because I’ve been getting some
legitimate information from American military and scientific
people, who have not only met some of them from out there, but
are working alongside of them in United States government
national laboratories like Sandia, Los Alamos, Brookhaven
National Laboratory in Long Island, which is one of the most
super-secret laboratories.
Anyhow, we have scientists and military guys that have been
working alongside of some of those dudes, and they are in our
midst.
When I retired, we knew of four different groups. They were all
humanoid, but they were all not the kind of guys who could walk
up and down the street on a Saturday afternoon without being
seen or responded to.
But, one of the groups of four looks exactly like us in the sense
that it could be sitting here in this auditorium next to you and you
wouldn’t know it; next to you in an airplane or a restaurant or a
theater...
They’re in our midst, guys. This one group, particularly, is in our
midst, and apparently since 1954, when Ike met them at Muroc
Air Force Base in California; they’re been working with us,
trying to help us make that transition from adolescence into
adulthood.
And why are they doing that? Well, apparently, this is the same
group that had a hand in engineering our genetics 10,000,
100,000 years ago.
If you want a little history on that subject, read Zecharia Sitchin,
which I suspect most of you are familiar with. His stories are
shockingly accurate in that they literally tell the essential story of
our beginnings. They translate these ancient cuneiform tablets
from Sumer. Zecharia’s not the only one. There was a brilliant
Englishman by the name of Christian O’Brien, who went Home a
year or so ago. Christian O’Brien wrote a beautiful, unbelievable
and powerful book called The Genius of the Few. If you can ever
find that somewhere, get a copy.
447
Christian O’Brien said essentially the same thing Zecharia has
said: We were genetically engineered and they’ve been coming
and going, and they’ve been in our midst for a hell of a long time.
Somebody said to Sitchin one time: Zecharia, when are they
coming back? And he said: Whatever made you think they ever
left?
And I don’t think they did ever leave.
Now, again, this is, I think, a little shocking information here. At
least it shocked the hell out of me.
Now, when I was in Germany at a conference some years ago, a
Russian cosmonaut by the name of Marina Popovich handed out
a few copies to me and to Michael Hesemann, another researcher,
friend of mine, that the Soviet Phobos mission took on Mars
when it was out there 15, 20 years ago.
The Soviets sent this fantastic mission to Mars. They named it
Phobos 2 because Phobos 1 is one of the moons of Mars, twelve
miles in diameter, so they named their space mission Phobos 2
and they took a whole bunch of pictures. [changes photo]
One of the pictures they took, which Michael Hesemann
published in his magazine, is apparently a city the size of
Chicago under the surface in Mars, generating an enormous
amount of heat, because this photo was taken in the infrared. It’s
in German at the bottom here, but Michael had published it in his
magazine.
From Phobos 2 – a city under the surface of Mars the size of
Chicago. You can see practically the blocks, the streets, and so
on. So yes, Virginia, there are Martians, and, yes, they are on
Mars. And some of them are probably here, because we
apparently don’t look that different from each other.
But, you’ll never see this published in an American newspaper or
an American magazine. It had to be published in Germany by
Michael Hesemann.
[next photo] Phobos 2 took another picture while it was in orbit
around Mars – and the story I was told was that they literally
planned to land on Phobos, the moon. Well, they never got there,
because while they were in orbit around Mars, this thing came up
from the surface of Mars – gigantic in size – and apparently
bumped Phobos 2 to knock it out of orbit and down it went.
So, there’s somebody up there who says: No, no, no! You can
come and peek, but then you can’t stay very long and you’re not
going to take that many pictures. We’re not going to allow it.
[sighs] Okay. I think that does my photographs for you this
afternoon. [applause]
Now, as I said to you, I’m ticked off. I have this Pissed-Off
Roster, which is a work of joy and pleasure for me. [laughter] As
I said, politicians at the top, particularly the United States
Congress. They’re a bunch of clowns. They literally run a circus
back there.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Theologians are right next, below. [audience comments] Forgive
me, I’m not anti-religious; I simply don’t like religion because it
tends to divide people. It separates people. [applause] My God is
better than your God. My book is better than your book. My story
is truer than your story, and so on and so on and so on.
So, I’m not religious at all. I’ve studied them all. I’ve studied
Hinduism, I’ve studied Islam [and] I’ve studied Judaism.
I was raised a Christian; I’ve studied Christianity. I consider the
young man from Galilee my best friend, but that’s another story
that I don’t think we have time for me to get into. I went through
a series of hypnotic past-life regressions a number of years ago
and one of the lives that I discovered was in Galilee 2,000 years
ago with Him. So, I say he was my best friend and he still is my
best friend.
Anyhow, I’m not anti-religious. I respect the people, who are
sincere and honest about it, but it does tend to separate people – it
divides people – and I try to promote the concept of a spiritual
approach to life. [applause]
If you human beings had the slightest idea of what you are! My
God, you’re incredible! You are, all of you, masterpieces.
You really need to know what Yogananda said -- you need to
reach a state of self-realization; when you recognize that, within
you burns a spark of pure Divinity, and it don’t matter what
church you go to, or what language you speak, or what politics
you are, or what color your skin might be -- that don’t matter.
You are Divinity in itself. You are part of that Infinite Spark,
which my friend from Galilee said: The kingdom of Heaven is
within you.
The gang back there didn’t really grasp what he was talking
about, but his truths and his words are as legitimate today as they
ever were. And you guys are getting there; you’re beginning to
pay attention, you’re beginning to wake up.
Now, as I said, my Pissed Off List goes down, you know. We had
NASA, the politicians, the theologians, and then there’s the
American mass of people: the public. What is it they used to call
it? The great unwashed? You know, Joe Six-pack?
Listen, I have to be kind with Joe, because at the moment, bless
his heart, he may have lost his job, he may be losing his home, he
can’t pay his bills, he’s got kids to send through school and
educate and buy clothes for. So, I’m trying to be gentle with Joe
Six-pack, because he’s carrying a heavy load right now.
There are tens of thousands of them out there, all over the
country. There may be some of them in the audience here tonight
and you probably know a few of them, and they’re damn-fine
people. So, I’m not trying to fault them too much – the fact that
they’re not paying attention.
I get a little ticked off – NASCAR! Basketball! Football! Tennis!
Golf! My God, these fixations with these little balls! You know?
[laughter/ applause] Freud would have a ball with that, you know,
no pun intended. Old Sigmund would have a real fine time
working that out.
448
Okay, forgive me for wandering. It’s important that I get some of
this stuff...
One of the things that I fault the average guy out there is for his
attention span. He seems to be suffering – the masses of them –
seem to be suffering what they call Attention Deficit Disorder.
It’s a problem the kids in school have. They can’t seem to focus
on anything more than two or three minutes and then they’re pfft
-- off somewhere else; pfft -- off somewhere else.
I blame television for that, as well as their parents for allowing
them to do that. How many of them sit down and read a book
these days?
Anyhow, their attention span is very, very limited. The public at
large has a limited attention span.
For example, let me get back here, go back a few years.
[checking his notes] Ah! Wernher von Braun said in 1959 – now
get the year, ’59, five years after ’54.
Now, what the hell happened in ’54? Well, something unusual
happened at Muroc Air Force Base in California in ’54, where an
aging President had an encounter that literally damn near killed
him -- because right after this event in ’54 at Muroc, the poor old
dude had a heart attack. He was not able to deal with this thing.
[Ed note: Muroc AFB has been renamed as Edwards AFB.]
Anyhow, in 1959, a famous Nazi by the name of Wernher von
Braun, who literally built our Saturn Five program from the
ground up, had this to say, and this appeared in several US
newspapers – I kid you not -- this was published in newspapers.
Wernher said in ’59: We find ourselves faced by powers which
are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed and whose base is
at present unknown to us. I cannot say more at present. We are
now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers.
Now, wouldn’t you have thought that Wernher would have been
mobbed? Explain this! What the hell are you talking about? Who
are these powers that you’re referring to? I mean, you’re one of
our top scientists; you’re building the Apollo program for us.
This is in ’59! No major response. Like whhttt! – it just went
over. [makes gesture indicating over everyone’s heads]
Ah, 1980. Another German professor by the name of Hermann
Oberth said this, and this was quoted and published in several
American newspapers: We cannot take the credit for our record
advancement in certain scientific fields alone; we have been
helped by the peoples of other worlds.
Now, did this cause a ripple? Did people say: What the hell are
you talking about, professor? “People of other worlds?” What? It
cries out for answers and there weren’t any and nobody made a
deal out of it.
And then, here we have something in 1987 – a prominent
American senator from Hawaii, Daniel K. Inouye; United States
Senator from Hawaii. He said this in a committee and it’s in the
Congressional Record: There exists a shadowy government with
its own Air Force, its own Navy, and its own fund-raising
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of the national
interest, free from all checks and balances and free from the law
itself. – And this is in the Congressional Record.
Did that cause a response? Did people mob the senator and say:
Senator, what the hell are you talking about? This is dynamite.
Attention Deficit Disorder!
Allen Hynek said before he died... A series of events occurred in
New York along the Hudson River some years ago, called the
Hudson River Events, where gigantic triangular and boomerang-
shaped objects a mile, and a mile-and-a-half across, hovered over
the Hudson River, moved slowly up and down the Taconic
Freeway there – hundreds of people going up and down, guys
pulling off the road, looking up and seeing this damn thing.
It was gigantic. It hovered over the Indian Point nuclear reactor
for an hour. All the alarms went off, all of the security people
responded to this thing – and it took place – and not one word
from the authorities about this, except some stupid-ass idea of a
bunch of guys were flying little planes around at night in
formation.
The FAA, to its eternal shame, said things like that: Oh, these
guys were flying around in their little airplanes, you know, in
formation at night – never mentioning that this was total violation
of FAA regulations. As if those little guys in little airplanes could
match something that’s a mile-and-a-half across – a boomerang, a
triangle!
Attention Deficit Disorder! It goes on and on and on.
Where am I here? [referring to his notes] As I say, I tend to
wander. Forgive me. Okay, I’ve given you your little parable. I
talked about David Froning. I talked about Ben Rich. I’ve quoted
Inouye, von Braun, Oberth, the shadow government.
Oh, I want to touch upon one little other thing here. There’s an
amusing situation that has taken place. I find it amusing and I
find it tragic.
There’s a young Brit by the name of Gary McKinnon. Many of
you are familiar with this story. Gary, it seems, is a computer
nerd. He’s a real genius. He’s a hacker.
Well, Gary happened to be able to hack into the Defense
Department computers here about a year ago, a little over a year
now. He hacked into NASA’s computers a little over a year ago,
and he come up with some stuff that was dynamite.
So, what happened is that we found about it and we got hold of
the Brits and we said: We want that man. We're going to put him
on trial and we’re going to stick his ass in jail for 70 years.
And, so help me God, the British agreed to extradite young Gary
McKinnon to the United States for trial and sentencing. Now, I
stand curious to see what kind of a trial they plan to put on for
McKinnon. It’s got to be a public trial. He’s not a US citizen.
They’re charging him with a violation of our computer security
systems and all the rest of it.
449
So, this kid’s being sent from the UK over to the United States
and they’re going to put his little butt up in front of a judge and a
jury and charge him with damage by breaking into our NASA
and our Defense Department computers.
I and others have said they should hire the kid, for Christ sake,
and put him to work. [applause] If he can hack into those
computers, he must know what the hell he’s doing.
Ah, but let me just touch lightly upon what did Gary McKinnon
come up with? Ah... what did he download when he hacked into
those computers?
He apparently downloaded some stuff, packaged up the material,
and turned it over to a British researcher by the name of Timothy
Good. Now Tim, for many of you who know of him, he’s
probably one of the top researchers on the planet. He’s a brilliant
young man. I say young – he’s about the age of my son, about 57,
maybe close to 60.
Anyhow, Timothy Good, apparently, was the recipient of some of
this downloaded material from McKinnon. McKinnon says: I got
some dynamite here, and he gave it to Timothy Good with the
idea that maybe Timothy eventually could publish it. Now the
question is, are they going to try to extradite Timothy Good to the
United States and put his butt in front of a jury and a judge?
But we don’t know. The Brits I met in Barcelona told me that this
story is pretty definite, pretty true.
Ah, but what did McKinnon download? Ah! Let me just touch
upon a couple of things – orders, military orders, transferring a
Commander from one vessel to another vessel. Now, the vessels
were named USSS Curtis Lemay and the other vessel that this guy
transferred to, this Commander, was the USSS Roscoe
Hillencotter.
Now, Curtis Lemay, most of you are well aware, dead now, one
of our top Four-Star Air Force Generals, who bombed Japan back
to the Stone Age, practically, because he was Strategic Air
Command. There is a vessel named the USSS Curtis Lemay and a
Commander transferred from that to the USSS Roscoe
Hillencotter.
Now, Roscoe Hillencotter is dead now, but he was a Four-Star
Navy Admiral who was the first Director of Central Intelligence.
Now, the guys, the researchers, have gone to the records and
there ain’t no listing of vessels with those names in the entire US
Navy Manifest.
So, the question arises: My God, where is the Curtis Lemay?
Where is the Hillencotter? The inference we’re getting is that,
apparently, they’re in orbit somewhere out there. And now we’re
talking about one of the biggest secrets of all time – where your
missing trillions have probably been going.
There is a separate space program, which you guys are paying for
and they’re not telling you anything about it, and as a result,
NASA is a bit of a joke. We have a special space program and it
is apparently known as the United States Aerospace Command
and it is a joint service agency. That means it includes Navy,
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, and it also includes the British
Aerospace Command.
They launch satellites from several different positions on the
planet. They maintain, apparently, an entire fleet of vessels in
orbit. They have anti-gravity and zero-point energy, which you
guys have a right to and you ain’t going to see for another ten
years.
Now, that’s where your missing trillions have gone. You know
the story: ’98, ’99, and 2000, $1.7 [trillion dollars] a year for
three years disappeared off the books. That bunch of clowns in
congress; do you think there was an uproar? Do you think there
was a demand for answers? Where did that money go? Forget it!
Now, the day before 9/11 the Secretary of Defense says: We’re
missing three trillion dollars. We can’t account for it. It’s off the
books, somehow. We’re working on it. It may be an accounting
error. [laughter] You know how they are: Doublespeak. George
Orwell would be happy with this crowd.
Missing three trillion, after the already missing of $1.7 [trillion] a
year for three years? There is where the funding is coming for
your Aerospace Command that Daniel Inouye is talking about – a
separate shadow government that you have no idea exists. And
those guys have got the technology that Ben Rich says is 100
years beyond establishment knowledge.
And, really, if you talk about being pissed-off, that kind of
information drives me up the wall. I say to you guys -- and I hope
you’re as pissed-off about it as I am -- we’ve damn well got to
get some answers from these idiots back there, or our country is
gone forever – and I don’t want to see that happen.
When I went into the military, I signed an Oath to die for that
Constitution if I had to, and I believe in that Constitution. It was a
work of genius, the best form of government that’s ever been
devised. They’re trashing it and we’re not standing up and
defending it enough. We’re not insisting that they account for
being in office and drawing those big salaries.
[sighs] Okay, guys, I’ve covered a whole lot of stuff here. As I
said, I tend to wander. I guess it’s the name of the game. I’m
coming to the end of my presentation here.
As I said, I’ve been speaking out rather bluntly and loudly for a
number of years on this subject. As I said, it’s the biggest story in
human history because it IS the story OF human history. It’s your
story. It’s who you are, how you got to be here, and where you’re
going.
And I told you that I’m outraged at the doom-sayers. Oh, God!
2012, we’re doomed. It’s all over! The asteroids! Whatever. A
pole shift. We’re all doomed.
**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription
Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several
years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**
450
That Mayan shaman in Germany years ago told me, he said: You
white-skins, you do it every time, you screw it all up. He said:
That’s not what the hell the story is.
He says: I’m an expert on my calendar. I’m an expert on the
history of my people and that’s not the end of the damn world –
it’s the beginning of a new age.
He says: We look forward to it with anticipation and excitement.
The old world is coming to a close and a new way of thinking is
coming, and it’s going to be so unlike anything that’s ever existed
before, he said, we are so excited about the future.
2012 – that day will come and go. It'll be the end of our long
count, but so what? What’s important is there’s a New Age
coming. And you guys are all a part of it.
And I say, in closing, that there are going to be some difficult
times ahead because we are literally in this transition that is a
transformative transformation, not only of the planet, but of the
human species. And it’s primarily spiritual in its nature. That is a
very hopeful thing to discuss and understand and accept.
As I said, we’re phasing out of a phase of adolescence. We’re
going through adolescence and we’re going to reach adulthood.
If you all remember, I’m sure you do, adolescence was not a hell
of a lot of fun. I found it painful as hell when I was going through
it, and so did my mother and father while I was going through it.
But, we’re making that transition, and it’s hopeful and favorable.
I want to leave you with a remark or two that I think is important.
I’m a great fan of Leo Tolstoy; one of my favorite authors. He
was a mystic, a tremendous, great writer, philosopher. Count Leo
Tolstoy said, and I quote:
There is something in the human spirit that
will survive and will prevail. There is a tiny
and brilliant light burning in the heart of man
that will not go out, no matter how dark the
world becomes.
And I want to leave you tonight with that comment about that
spark of Divinity that burns brightly within each and every one of
you.
God bless you and good night.
[long applause/ hoots/ whistles/ ovation]
Thank you! [shakes hands with Bill Ryan] I’m finished.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Cynthia Crawford - Contactees’ Workshop transcript
Cynthia Crawford: Contactees’ Workshop
19 September 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Cynthia Crawford, ET Sculptor [www.etsculptor.com]
CYNTHIA CRAWFORD (CC): This is going to be an exciting
time. I also have some stories to tell you of people who have
experienced the Beings after having a sculpture. Now mind you, I
am not allowed to sell the sculptures.
If there’s something you really want to buy, you may buy it, but I
am not here to sell these, and I’ll tell you why I don’t sell these
sculptures... I don’t talk anybody into buying a sculpture.
When I make the sculptures, first of all, they know who’s going
to buy them. They need to get into the right hands. They identify
with the right person. If you don’t feel a connection, I say do not
buy it; it’s not going to serve you at all. Okay?
The other thing I tell people is you never want to buy a sculpture
if you’re afraid to have contact. Okay? If you’re afraid to have
contact, don’t ever buy a sculpture because when I was in Alamo,
Nevada, doing a conference, a gentleman who had had contact
and never was allowed to remember who he had had contact with
decided he wanted to buy a Mantis Being.
So... he bought a Mantis Being and lo and behold, a month later
he contacted me and said: I have been downloaded with visions of
what’s going to happen in the future. I’ve been given spiritual
teachings to help me in my ascension. But one night I woke up
and there were three Beings in my room!
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And he said: I didn’t expect it and so I told them “Get out of
here! I don’t want you in here.”
And I said: Oh, that’s too bad. I’m really sorry to hear that. Next
time they appear, this is all you have to do. Tell them: “You can
talk to me telepathically, but until I’m ready to see you and
experience you, please just do it telepathically. Okay?”
Let me tell you a little bit about me, Cynthia Crawford. I was
born a twin. My mother... when I was born, I was born without an
amniotic sac. My twin sister was born with an amniotic sac, but
we had totally different blood types and tissue types.
When we were five years old, my twin sister never learned to
walk like a normal person. She walked on her tiptoes and fell a
lot and the doctors diagnosed her with Muscular Dystrophy.
My father, by the way, was in the Army and worked on Top
Secret missions no one was allowed to know about. Okay? I
don’t know if that gives you a clue where I’m going with this.
Okay? This is what happened.
The doctors took samples from me because they thought if they
transplanted my muscle tissue in my twin’s legs, she might walk
again. They couldn’t do the transplant. We were not matches,
even though we were twins. It was as if we were never related.
I did not find out until I was in my early 30s, when my father
came to me... and my mother and father were divorced when I
was quite young, and my mother was a very, very devout
Christian and my father was an agnostic.
And my father came to me and he said: Have you ever wondered
why you’ve always had contact with the Beings? Have you ever
wondered why you’ve had babies taken from you by the Beings?
Okay? Have you ever wondered why you’re the only one in the
family that’s had communication?
And I thought: Where in the world did he get this information? I
never told him about this, but he knew about it.
I also as a child who remembered being taken to underground
facilities, government facilities, when I was a toddler, and I
would cry because I didn’t want to be there. They would take me
to these underground facilities and they would literally test me to
see what abilities I had.
These were military doctors and underground facilities many,
many, many floors below the surface, secret facilities. But I was
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
always told those were dreams, so I thought: Oh, what horrible
dreams.
But my mother never knew where she was going to find me when
I was a child, if I would be found outside, next to the door inside
sleeping on the floor, or in my bed. And as a teenager, I would
sometimes wake up and I was outside, didn’t know how I got
there. I also had times where I thought I was in bed and the next
thing I know, I am floating through the air up into a ship. I used
to hate those “dreams”.
Well, now I’m in my 30s and my father’s telling me this, I finally
said: Why, Dad? Why have I had contact? Tell me.
And he said: You’re a hybrid.
I laughed and I said: No, no I can’t be a hybrid, because that
meant there was a reason why I never felt like I belonged here.
But, I also found out at the age of 22, when I had my son and had
complications with him, the doctors could not give me blood
transfusions for I had an antigen in my blood that only two other
people in the whole world had.
Now, let me tell you, if that doesn’t make you feel a little bit
weird, I don’t know what does!
AUDIENCE MEMBER (AM): [inaudible]
CC: No, I don’t know them, but I will tell you this, when I had
my son at the age of 22...
I remember waking up before, of course, and I woke up after
being on a ship and the ship had the ceiling, walls, floors, all
seemed to be a luminous glow to them and I was being told I was
going to have a son. He would do great things in the future to
help save the planet Earth. And I thought: Whoa, I’m going to
have a son. He’s going to be special.
I was so excited and I woke up in bed and I’m telling my
husband. He goes: Nah, you’re not pregnant. No way. And I
made a bet, and the bet was I would get a sewing machine and by
God that sewing machine came in handy. I made my maternity
clothes! [laughs]
Anyway, I’ve had numerous healings my whole life. When I was
18 years old... because I always had a hard time fitting in; I used
to be a very depressed child and kept feeling this was not my
home. So I did a very stupid thing and I’m sure you’ve heard of
people like me.
I decided to take an overdose of aspirins and end my life. I was
tired of being on this planet and it was really stupid but I wanted
relief. I wanted relief from the fear of being different, from the
“dreams” of being in ships. I wanted help, and the way to get
help was to die. Right?
I took an overdose of aspirins and if anybody knows what
happens when you take a bottle of aspirins, it works like acid in
your body and it completely dissolved my vascular system. I was
bleeding out of every opening in my body. My eyes... I literally
went blind. My eyes were bleeding and I literally got down on
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my hands and knees, crawled to the bed, laid down to die. I woke
up the next morning healed, one hundred percent healed.
At the age of 29 I had real complications with my lungs. I was
constantly getting pneumonia and never knew if I was going to
go into a coma, didn’t know why my lungs were so weak. My
twin sister had died just two months before when I came down
with lower-lung pneumonia and both my lungs collapsed while I
was out of town. I said my goodbyes telepathically to God and
everybody else.
I woke up the next morning completely healed, came back to
Omaha, Nebraska, where I was living. The doctor took x-rays of
my lungs, called me in to his office and cried, sat there and
literally cried in front of me, and he said: You must have
something important to do in the future because these are not
your lungs. These are newborn-baby lungs.
I also was hit by a car in 1993 while I was walking across the
street... thrown 35 feet up into the air, 75 feet out into another
street. All these bones in here were broken, had gone in and out
my bladder. My colon and intestines were all twisted and knotted
up. A part of my face was torn off me. My ears were torn off me.
I wear a plate in my shoulder.
I was told that it would take six to eight months for me to walk
again, but because my muscle tissue is Anunnaki, I walked in two
months. But because my bones are Zeta bones, from my DNA,
my bones did not heal like humans. My bones took three times
longer than a human. I have both Zeta DNA, Anunnaki DNA,
and human DNA.
Anunnaki is the greatest part of my DNA which attributes for my
muscular build. When I did one time in my life start working out
with weights, I developed the body of a weight lifter that would
take one to two years to develop that body, I did it in two weeks.
Unbelievable. One day I looked in the mirror and go: I’m a man!
I was so muscular. So I quit working out. [laughs]
But anyway, it was not until after... When I had that accident, by
the way, it took me five years to say complete sentences and to
remember one minute to the next. I had lost 1/3 of my brain and I
had to learn all over again. It’s quite an experience, a very
humbling experience.
In 1997 I decided to give up my fear of having contact and I
started going to an experiencer group. The psychologist that ran
this experiencer group used to work with John Mack – Barbara
Lamb. Anyone in here know Barbara Lamb? Okay. A wonderful
woman, fabulous person, I love her so dearly.
I started working with this group of experiencers and I gave up
my fear and I started having contact at least one to two times a
week and I began going to other planets. I began going through
teachings, spiritual teachings, which I didn’t expect – spiritual
teachings of love.
One of the first things they told me was: In order to be in the new
world which will be coming soon, humans must give up greed,
judgment, and prejudice by looking beyond the physical
container to see the Creator-Source within each and every
Being... Not within each and every human – each and every
Being. Okay?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Now, when I gave up my fear I said: Okay, by golly, I want them
to come to me now. I want them to tell me: Why was I the victim?
Why did they want me? Why were they always taking me away?
Why did they take my babies from time to time?
I had three conscious memories of having babies taken from me
and I found out I have 23 children on other planets. Part of it’s
my DNA.
Doctors couldn’t explain why, when at the age of 24 I had to
have a hysterectomy, why my tubes... and when I was 40 years
old and they removed my tubes and ovaries, why my tubes were
like plump hotdogs ready for a weenie roast. The truth was, they
told me, that a panel of doctors had examined the tissue and it
was perfectly healthy.
I had not one, not two, not three tubal pregnancies, but at least
four or more. I only remember one because I remember waking
up and having a lot of complications with that tubal pregnancy
that they took, and then I found that they used my eggs. What it
had to do with was my DNA; that’s why they wanted me. So
anyway, getting back to when I gave up fear of having contact
with them and said: I’m ready for conscious... After three weeks
of begging they finally appeared to me and the first one that
appeared to me was one of the most incredible loving Beings I
had ever, ever encountered, and the love was beyond words.
There is no human description for the love they give you. Okay?
What happened was, on the day that he materialized, I’m laying
in bed begging, of course, and here comes... almost like Star
Trek... here comes a body materializing in front of me, brown
skin as wrinkled as elephant skin, very glove-leather soft. I don’t
know what kind of lotion he used, but he was soft.
He had a large head which was large here, dented in the back
here, and then went out a little bit again and then to a long thin
neck; long arms, arms longer than humans; very muscular lean
body; gold eyes with slits, and he humbly looked down for fear
he would frighten me.
All I felt was the most incredible love coming from him. It was as
if God himself had entered my room, and I had no idea I could
feel this kind of love. I had never felt it from anyone and I said to
him: May I hold your hand? And he rolled out three long fingers
with suction cups on the ends.
Is there anyone in this room who has woken up with these
bruises, three bruises on their thighs, legs, or somewhere? You
have? And they look almost like a suction cup type bruise?
[audience member responds, inaudible] On your shoulder? Okay.
Do you know why we wake up with these bruises? It is not
because we’ve been hurt, it is because consciously it is to alert us
or let us know we have had contact. Whatever happened, it is for
us to remember it. Okay?
So this guy shows me the suction cups on the ends of his fingers
and I’m holding his hand like... Oh, was that cool, almost like
first love! It was wonderful and I would do it again and again and
again. But after a while he said: Now it’s time for you to learn
from someone else, so I started going from Being to Being to
Being and eventually began having contact with The Masters.
453
The Masters are not the people that tell you what to do and to
worship them. The Masters are here to tell us who we are, how
important we are, all equal. There is no greater than and lesser
than another. Sananda, Ashtar, Mary – all of them are Beings.
Now, let’s fast-forward a little bit and in 2003 one day while
taking a pot-throwing class, trying to learn how to use clay, they
were overbooked and they didn’t have enough wheels and so I sat
there most of the time just kind of waiting my turn and I started
working with the clay and the next thing I knew I had sculptured
an ET baby hybrid.
Let me tell you, the people in this class were not open-minded
like you guys. They thought it was freaky, creepy, and some of
the people even told the teacher: Do you mind if you tell her not
to make these in this room?
So I would make them in my home and I began having conscious
contact with these Beings where they were telepathically... I
would be sculpturing and they would tell me how to make the
eyes, the nose, the head. By the way, one time I made the nose
too big and they said [pitches voice low and masculine]: He does
not have a Bob Hope nose. [laughs] Ooo!
Or they would say: The eyes do not bulge that much. Okay. Or:
The eyes are more slanted.
What I didn’t realize right off the bat... They did tell me
telepathically: When you make these Beings, they carry our
frequency. I was only allowed to make Beings that work with the
Light.
One time I decided I wanted to make a reptilian but not the good
reptilians. You know, there are good and there are bad, and
there’s nothing wrong with the bad, truly. The bad ones are just
as important as the good ones because how do we know what
love is if we haven’t experienced what hate is? Or what pain is if
we haven’t experienced not being in pain? Believe me, when you
have a lot of broken bones, you know what pain is. [laughs]
So, we learn through experiencing the differences.
They would never allow me to make negative ones and one day I
saw this picture of a reptilian that people said “Raped Women.
Bad Reptilian”. I thought: Well he’s awfully pretty. I think I’ll
make him anyway.
I STARTED MAKING HIM, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE
BEINGS SAID TO ME: No. WE don’t want you to do that one.
I SAID: But I want to.
THEY SAID: WE do not want you to. Now, they speak in a
collective, by the way.
I SAID: I don’t care what WE want, I want to find out if I’m an
artist because I don’t make these by myself. You work through me
to make these sculptures. I want to find out if I even have any
artistic talent.
So they shut their mouths and I made a reptilian. He was
gorgeous, and he was perfect, and I was so proud. I pushed him
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off into the middle of this big, big six-foot-long island, grabbed
some more clay and started making another sculpture, and the
next thing I know, the sculpture goes flying off of the counter,
smashed face down, unrecognizable, and the message was: That
which you make, you bring that frequency into the world.
Okay. I got it... only benevolent Beings.
Now, what I want you to do, because when they told me their
frequency is in these Beings, these sculptures, they told me... in
fact they even called me a “straw,” I am a straw through which
the fluid flows, so when I do hands-on, they come through me
and whatever sculpture I’m making, they put their frequency in
them and the longer I work on them, the more empowered they
are.
For an example, one time... actually this last February when I was
in Laughlin... Anybody go to Laughlin? Okay, good, a few of you
guys went to Laughlin to the International UFO Congress.
I got home at midnight and I was so tired. I rode with another
person, or I had another person ride with me... we were getting
things out and he wasn’t paying attention and one of the
sculptures, a Zeta, kind of a green looking Zeta, fell out of my car
and broke.
And so I thought: Oh darn, I have to fix it. Well, it took me an
hour and a half to fix it and I had to hold the head onto the neck
and then I had to rebuild the neck and blah-blah-blah.
A Paranormal Matrix came out to my house to film me making
sculptures and to show pictures of all my sculptures... And by the
way, this is going to be on TV. I haven’t yet got a date for the
release, but they will be showing this on TV. As they’re filming
all the sculptures, all of a sudden they came to the one that had
broken that I had repaired.
Because I put in extra time repairing it, it had so much frequency
their camera, which had a stabilizer in it, went nuts. It was
vibrating... [makes noise like a Theremin] And let me tell you,
everyone there but one man who was an agnostic, everyone there,
there was eight crew people filming this, were “believers”. They
had never seen anything like this, ever.
I’ve had people take dowsing rods and literally set a sculpture
down and take a dowsing rod and go right up to the sculpture and
when they get from 10 to 15 feet... if it’s a sculpture that was
broke that I had to repair, they get 20 feet away and those rods
would open wide up because of the kind of frequency they have.
I thought they were joking when somebody told me that they
used dowsing rods on it, so I started doing it (and I’ll be darned if
I didn’t forget my dowsing rods), but they open up, wide up. I
was just absolutely blown away and going: Whoa, that’s okay.
That’s cool.
Meditation Exercise:
Now, those who have sculptures, what I want you to do, first of
all I want everyone, I want you to relax, take deep breaths, big,
big deep breaths. Just totally relax and allow yourselves to be
One. And then I want you to, as you’re holding the sculptures, or
454
if you have a necklace, hold the necklace and imagine that piece
as if it’s an extension of your arms and hold it. Allow it to
become part of you.
Allow yourself to feel the energy. Feel the energy. You may feel
tingling. You may feel pulsing. It may even speak to you. Don’t
be surprised if it’s telepathically speaking to you. Feel the energy
of them. And while you’re doing that I’m going to tell you a little
story.
Last May, a year ago May, when I was doing a conference in
Alamo, Nevada, the day before I left to do the conference, I was
told to sit down at the computer and to write. And all of a sudden
this was what came out:
The Source was, just was All That Is. The Source knew all, was
all. And the Source decided that it wanted to know what it was
like not to be all, not to know all. So the Source made Selves and
the Source made worlds for Selves to live on, and each Self would
have a container that it would be allowed, to live on these
planets. Source Selves are the Light, the Soul-Light connected to
the Source.
I don’t have time to do a regression tonight but I will tell you this
that I did a regression with these people. I took them down and I
took them to another planet and I started introducing, one by one,
each of the Beings to them. Then I took them from the planet and
the planet disappeared, and all of the Beings throughout the
universe that I had introduced them to, they all were holding
hands. Then all of a sudden I had their bodies, their containers
disappear, and all that was left was their Source, their Source-
Light, the Soul within.
Now imagine a circle of lights. Now imagine off in the distance
in outer space comes a big, big bright light and it’s moving
quickly through the universe and it comes down in the center of
all these little Light Beings. The Big Light is the Source-Creator,
the Source itself, All That Is. And all the little lights that
represent the Souls of the Beings throughout the universe are all
Source-Selves and the Light expels umbilical cords that goes out
to each and every light so it looks almost like a wheel with the
spokes in the middle.
We are all connected to those of the universe and you have
contact with them. It’s simply by releasing the container, going
within, connecting with the Source, the Creator of all, and
opening up your heart to communicate with your brothers and
sisters throughout the universe.
We are all here for our lessons. We can be teachers to one
another and we can be soul brothers and sisters and share our
lessons, but in every lifetime we have a certain set of lessons that
allows us to grow spiritually, and that’s what life is about. We are
on this planet, Earth, at this time, one of the most precious times
ever in which we actually get to experience the release of an old
world and the bringing in of a new world.
And we get to be those people who start the new world over. That
what we want to see in the new world is that which we need to be
now. When we begin living what we want to see in the world, we
change the world.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Now I want you to feel the energy inside these sculptures and let
the feeling of that energy move into your heart chakra. Connect
with it. They’re asking you to feel their love. Allow that love to
penetrate your heart and exchange love with them. Give the love
back. Give them love.
[several moments of silence; meditation ends]
When you go home at night or even tonight here if you’re staying
at the hotel, close your eyes and meditate and do this. Connect
with the Source, connect with the Beings and say: I am no longer
afraid. My heart is open. I am ready for contact.
The only thing you need to know that’s going to help you through
anything and everything in this world that we will face, or are
about to face, is unconditional love and living the Light.
If you think there’s a chance that somebody may be of a negative
energy, you can dissipate any negativity simply by enveloping
them in the Light and sending them unconditional love.
I have been attacked many times by the Illuminati and by the
government, the secret government, who because I know who I
am and have spoken up about how we’re all connected; they have
tried to take me out.
There literally have been times the Illuminati have actually tried
to take me out by causing me to... One time I woke up after being
drugged by them and they had injected me with a serum that
caused an aneurism in my brain, but right before my brain was to
pop, all of a sudden I cried out for my guides, for my Beings, and
said: If you want me to finish my mission, then heal me! Instantly
I was out cold and an hour later I woke up – I was completely
healed.
Anyone that does anything negative to you, if you return
negativity with negativity, anger, hatred, resentment, any of these
things, this is what’s gonna happen, you’re going to empower
them. Why not keep your power? We can empower ourselves
with unconditional love and enveloping the Light around all
those people that we want to either to teach to empower
themselves or that we want to diffuse them of their negativity.
I had a friend that told me that when she stayed over at my house
one time, she woke up in the middle of the night and there was a
reptilian carrying me – I was out cold – carrying me away.
455
SHE WALKED UP TO HIM AND HE WAS A BIG ONE AND
SHE SAID TO HIM: Put her down now!
AND THE BEING TELEPATHICALLY SAID: What are you
gonna do about it?
AND SHE SAID: I’m going to love you, and immediately he put
me down.
Darkness cannot handle the Light. Let’s be in the Light and let’s
change this world. Let’s take our power back.
You want to take your power back? Everybody want to take your
power back? Let’s do it now. Let’s do it now. How many of you
would like to have contact? [hands raised] All right! That’s
wonderful. I’m so happy.
Call them to you. Open your hearts to them. Give them love.
They may not do it the same moment you do that. It took me
three weeks of begging, but then it’s like I have contact all the
time. Sometimes we have to beg a little and sometimes we just
have to be patient, but never stop giving them love, for when they
feel your love they say: Okay. They’re ready.
Okay. Oh boy. Okay. I’m not sure if I’m seeing this correct.
What time do you guys have? Okay, I guess we’ve got a little bit
more time.
I want to ask... [music starts playing... she laughs]
AUDIENCE MEMBER (AM): [inaudible]
CC: You did? What colors did you see?
AM: There was a deep purple alternating with almost like a tan,
and then it went white.
CC: [inaudible]
AM: Just with my eyes closed.
CC: [inaudible]
AM: Oh yeah. I’ve been holding it for...
CC: Did you feel anything? Did you feel any vibration or
anything?
AM: I didn’t. I didn’t. And then it went completely black... and
one my challenges, I can never make a black screen, but this was
a completely black screen, you know, like your blouse or my
shirt, and then white came back again.
AMs – SEVERAL VOICES: [inaudible]
CC: Okay. Let’s see, lavender was your first?
AMs – SEVERAL VOICES: [inaudible]
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CC: Okay. Lavender represents your spiritual self.
AM: [inaudible]
CC: You’re talking about the third chakra?
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Yes. Yes, it is but it also represents wisdom. You’re being
downloaded with some wisdom. And what were the other colors?
AM: White.
CC: White is the highest color of ascension. Anybody have any
experiences while holding the sculptures? Okay. What was your
experience?
AM: I was meditating, I felt like pulsating in my head, vibration,
just a vibration in my head, right here. It was like pulsating.
CC: Okay, who else felt it?
AM: And light.
CC: And light? All right! Anybody else?
AM: [inaudible] Violet and bluish.
CC: Violet and bluish.
AM: [inaudible]… and vibration.
CC: Vibration.
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Excellent. Oh good! I get a lot of people tell me they start
feeling vibration. I sent sculptures to two different women who
had experienced a Nefilim [This is how she spells it on her
website] Child and both of them, when they picked the packages
out of their post box... [low electronic vibration sound, rising in
pitch at the end]... it vibrated, like that. [laughs]
CC: Yes. And you?
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Pulsation. That’s common.
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Ooooh, Wow. Communication there! She felt like she
wanted to cry. Wow. That’s beautiful.
That particular one is the Anabua. The Anabua have cried for the
planet Earth because of the abuse that humanity has created, so
the Anabua are all about Nature. They’ve agreed at this time at
the end of the old world, to come here to actually give us...
they’re going to check out... As we are moving into Stargates and
456
so forth, they are here as well to watch the way, to let us know if
there’s any danger ahead and so forth. Anybody else? Yes.
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Oh good. She had a broken hip at one time that you’ve had
surgery on. Is that right? And she felt a healing ache.
Now I will say this, a few people have actually experienced
healing. There is a woman who recently was given a sculpture, it
was the Andromedan Child, and what happened with the
Andromedan Child, she now uses it... she’s a Reiki master?
Actually it opens up peoples’ chakras and has dispersed all
negative energy, anything attaching to people.
I receive emails from a lot of people who have experiences.
It looks like we’re going to have to end this. I really apologize. I
was really hoping we could have a much longer time. Maybe I
can find a time tomorrow if Kerry and Bill, you know, are able to
fit me in, where we can sit down and talk some more because
it’s...
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Yeah, maybe during lunch break. I’m not sure if they’re
going to do that other thing at lunchtime, but I’ll talk to them.
The thing we need to be cognizant of... [to audience member]
Pardon?
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Yeah. The thing we need to be cognizant of... we need to just
relax, to stop judging, and start loving. We need to be cognizant
that we’re all connected to the universe. We take our turn from
planet to planet, learning the lessons we’ve chosen. What it all
boils down to is when we leave our physical container, we get to
go back to the spiritual plane and communicate with one another
the lessons we’ve learned.
When I gave up my fear and learned to love these Beings, oh my
gosh, I can’t get enough love. It’s like sometimes it’s hard being
in my body! [laughs] It’s wonderful.
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Oh no, I’m allowed to sell them. I’m not allowed to talk
people into buying them. You may buy them. If you’re really
connected to one and you feel drawn to it, you may buy it. But
what I’m saying is I cannot talk anybody into ever buying one for
they know who their owner is and you will know.
I’ve had people walk past my booth when I’ve been at shows and
they’ve turned around and they’d go: I’m sorry. What?
I’LL LOOK AT THEM AND GO: I didn’t say anything.
AND THEY GO: Ohhh... your sculpture’s talking to me.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
I’ve had people actually see the sculpture... and you have to be
very open-minded and not afraid. They’ve actually seen for
example, Mary... I mean, call her “Mary”; she’s the Blue Lady,
the plaque of the Blue Lady – she carries the Mary energy and
Isis energy.
I’ve had people tell me that the plaque actually became an entire
tall Being and actually came to her the night she got it. Then it
came back a second time that night and brought two other Beings
from other planets and said: Well, if you’re open enough for me,
here’s some others that would like to meet you.
AM: [inaudible]
CC: That is a Tall White. Charles Hall wrote books, the
Millennium series [Millennium Hospitality, a trilogy], about his
experience while in the Air Force meeting with Tall Whites?
They literally have come to this planet numerous times, they have
for hundreds and hundreds of years. Actually, many of them still
live here. [to audience member] Yes?
AM: [inaudible]
I overcame my fear when I got doggone tired of being a victim,
when I said: I am so tired of them coming and getting me when I
don’t want them to and when I don’t know what they’re doing...
they won’t let me remember.
And finally I said: I’m going to find out and the only way I can
find out is to give up my fear and say: “Okay guys, why me?”
And they came to me, finally, after three weeks of begging. And
I’ll tell you what, after I started experiencing them... I don’t care.
They come to me a lot. I’ve even... Does anybody have the Ant
People plaque? Anybody took the Ant People plaque?
AM: [inaudible]
CC: Ah yes! Let me tell you the story about the Ant People. I did
not believe that the old world was going to end and there was
going to be a new world. I kept thinking: Enh...[makes sound of
skepticism] you know. I’d heard about what happens in 2000 and
so forth.
So in 2006 one night I woke up in the middle of the night, potty
break time, and got up to go to the bathroom, and I noticed that
there was an Ant person about five feet tall standing beside my
bed. As I looked around, there was another one by the fireplace,
and another one by the stereo. And I’m going: Whoa, what a
dream. I can’t... this isn’t real.
I got up to go to the bathroom and I put cold water on my face,
slapped myself a few times, almost slapped myself silly, and I
came out and I said: Okay, if they’re real, they’re going to be
there when I come back.
I came back and, by God, they were real! I didn’t know who in
the world they were so I sculptured them. Anybody know of
Chris O’Brien?
AM: [inaudible]
457
CC: Yes. Chris O’Brien, The Mysterious Valley and so forth?
He’d spent... I think it was six years living with the Hopi?
Interestingly enough about Chris O’Brien, I will tell you, he
thought I was a phony. When he saw all the sculptures I did, he
said: You can’t tell me you’ve had experience with these Beings. I
won’t believe you.
And when I pulled out the Ant People sculpture (I actually made
an entire sculpture), he goes: Oh my God! The Ant People.
I SAID: The what?
HE GOES: The Ant People.
AND I SAID: Who are they?
HE GOES: Well, look it up, and he gives me this website to go to,
and I read [about] the Hopi talking about the Ant People.
So when I came back from that seminar I meditated one night and
I said: Okay, I’ve very open-minded. I would like to go down into
the inner world, inner Earth, to their den and see what their den
looks like.
And oh my God, what a joy! They literally have claws kind of
like crab claws on their feet and hands, and they have antennas.
Now, anybody know why the antennas, why they have antennas?
AM: [inaudible]
CC: No, they have these antennas... Do you remember My
Favorite Martian? Are you old enough for that? [laughs]
Well, what I didn’t realize was the antennas were because they
pick up frequency. They know us not by our face nor by our
name, but by our frequency.
My Beings told me our soul... when we were created, our soul
has a frequency that is our identity we carry. No matter how
many lifetimes, no matter what planet we live on, we always
carry that frequency. They can find us whenever they need us.
They zoom in on us.
And what happens is, the frequency intensifies as we become
more and more spiritual. Okay? It’s wonderful.
The Ant People... their only purpose is to bring us to inner Earth
when those who are meant to start the new world over again,
after Mother Earth has shaken herself free of “the fleas”...
I actually had a communication once with Mother Earth, and I
thought: Whoa, now this is really pushing the button there! I had
no idea Mother Earth was a sentient Being.
All of a sudden she wakes me up in the middle of the night and
she says: I have to cleanse myself, for humanity has been very
angry, very negative, very hateful, very greedy and jealous.
Although many of you are ready to graduate... We’re going
through a graduation for spiritual Beings – we’re going to
graduate from the lower density. So she said during this
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
graduation she must shake herself clean of all this negativity and
there will be a new group of students coming to Earth. Many of
us have chosen to go to the new world and start the world over.
Some will go back to the ships where they came from, others will
go back to other planets, and some might just be Guides for
others. You know, as we have Guides that speak to us? We may
choose just to kind of relax, hang back, and just be a Guide and
talk to people telepathically [laughs] like I’ve had the fortune of
having.
So, any other questions? [to audience member] Yes?
AM: [inaudible]
But what I was told was that Earth will always be a third-
dimensional planet, but there is a new Earth that will be a higher
density planet where those who have already learned their lessons
and have graduated can go and start the world over with higher-
conscious Beings.
The other Earth is always there as a school for the new class of
people, of Beings coming in, that are ready for their lessons. So
it’s kind of like being in school.
It’s kind of like we’re going to graduate high school this year... or
this lifetime, excuse me... this lifetime. It might be this year! Who
knows? [laughs] 2012 may come sooner than we think. So that’s
what I understand is going to happen.

CC: She wants to know if it’s true about the ascension, and will
Earth go into a fourth or fifth density?
You know, your truth is there in your heart, but I’m going to tell
you what they told me and then I’m going to tell each and every
one of you, if you want to know the truth, connect to the Source
within, for your truth belongs to you. No matter what anyone
says or no matter what you read, your truth is yours. Okay? We
only share what we think is our truth. Okay?
What they told me... and what was interesting is I was driving
one evening or afternoon with John Mack’s assistant, Maria, and
I was explaining the new Earth. I was told that, as an atom splits,
so too will planet Earth split and become two worlds.
AM: [inaudible]
CC: In a higher dimension. He asked where the new Earth, the
higher-density Earth, will be. It’s going to be in a higher
dimension. What we don’t understand because we’re living in a
third-dimensional world... we have to learn to see outsight the
box. The new Earth is in a much higher dimension than we are
now.
AM: [inaudible] CC: Yes. We just have to open our minds and to
accept whatever they’re willing to teach us about this. Every time
I think I know it all [laughs] I find out how much more I need to
learn. So I say: reach inside your hearts, connect with the Source,
and your answers will be there.

At the moment that I told her this, a rock dropped from a truck
and hit my windshield and I had two big overlapping round holes
in my windshield. Isn’t it an expensive lesson? But it got the
point across. She understood then, but it showed the two Earths
splitting. I have a photograph of this. I thought it was worth
photographing.
If you guys have any questions for me, feel free at any time to
come up to my booth and ask them. I’m going to call it quits now
so we don’t interfere any more with the music that’s going to be
performing here. So I hope you all enjoy the evening. Thank you
so much!

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

458
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Duncan O’Finioan and David Corso Lecture Transcript
September 20, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
BILL RYAN (BR): One of the things that motivated Dr. Pete
Peterson to come forward was his own increasing distaste at the
projects which he had been involved in, and one of the many
things we talked to him about was what is known colloquially as
the “Super Soldier Program.”
And… to refer to a human being as this sort of asset, this
disposable asset in the Super Soldier Program, tells you a little
bit about how the Powers That Be regard the human life and the
human spirit. Duncan will tell you a little bit about this himself in
the hour that he has available.
Duncan is the first generation of this particular program. Off-
record we talked to Dr. Pete Peterson, and I’ve got to be a little
careful about this, but he talked about Duncan O’Finioan being
the first generation of this program.
When we say the first generation, we’re not talking about fathers
and sons; we’re talking about leaps in technology.
Like the first generation aircraft was the Wright Brothers. The
second generation aircraft was a Second World War early fighter
jet. The third generation aircraft is the B-2 Bomber. The fourth
generation aircraft are the things that officially do not exist and
which fly off in the secret space program.
The Super Soldier Program is now in its fourth generation and we
were told some details about this.
459
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): At least.
BR: And I’m still trying... I’m still trying to think… “At least” –
I’m just reporting. [audience laughter] You’re saying “at least”.
That may be true.
KC: No, it’s just that we don’t know what generation for sure
because we don’t know, you know, they haven’t let on...
BR: I’m just reporting what Dr. Pete Peterson told us.
KC: Project Talent. But go ahead.
BR: Yeah. [laughter] So, what you’re going to hear just now is
the personal story of somebody who is well-described as a real-
life Jason Bourne. He’s trying to discover his identity. He’s
trying to figure out who did this to him and why, and what
happened, and what memories he still has to recover in the
process. There are still blanks.
We are very privileged to count him as a personal friend. He’s a
man with a heart the size of a planet. We love him to pieces and
the best story here is told from him in person. This is the
important part of conferences like this. When you’re looking at a
little video which is two inches by three inches on a computer
screen, or reading a transcript, it’s not the same as hearing the
words spoken from the heart of a man who has been so deeply
affected by these programs.
Duncan O’Finioan, please come to the stage.
[applause / ovation]
KC: Okay. I want to say a couple of words before we get started.
Duncan is a highly gifted psychic, among other things, and I do
want to say that when Bill was talking about first generation and
so on, actually, what we’re talking about… The logical
progression of that becomes robots – okay? – becomes things like
The Terminator, becomes things like human beings that are
combined with machines, who have limbs that have been
enhanced.
I’m sure that Duncan can clarify this for you, but that’s where
we’re going with this. So I just wanted to be a little more
specific, not quite so general, so that you understood where we’re
going with this. And there is no superficial relationship between
some of the things that Pete Peterson was involved in and we are
not allowed to talk about, and what those other levels of what
Duncan was the first, if you will, the test case or the main test
case, prototype, however you want to put it, the human prototype
for.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Okay, so with those leading comments, you can take that where
you will – Duncan O’Finioan.
[applause / ovation]
Duncan O’Finioan (DO’F): Thank you. Well, I did not expect
this. [laughs] I thank everybody for showing up this morning,
especially Bill and Kerry and Project Camelot for letting me do
this.
I have no clue before I talk what I’m going to say. I just walk up
and let it come out. I’ll start with, as Bill was alluding to...
generations of this project is correct. This is, basically, the fourth
generation that we’re in now.
I was first generation, 1960s. There was a previous generation in
the 1950’s that was a failed experiment. So basically in my
generation, they started the program all from new, all from
scratch and we’re right now, if my information is correct, in the
fourth generation.
What I’d like to do tonight or this morning... hey, I’m still on
East Coast time! [laughter] I don’t know what time it is. I want to
try something different. I’m going to try to stay away for the first
twenty minutes or so from any scientific standpoint.
What I’d like everyone to do is take a couple of deep breaths,
exhale it slowly, relax yourselves. Yeah. I’m going to try a little
experiment of my own and see how it goes.
We’re going to tell a little story. The story starts in the winter of
1966, and if anybody knows what eastern Kentucky looked like
in 1966, well, you’re better than I am, because I don’t remember.
[laughs] You’re talking two-lane roads, mostly gravel. Eastern
Kentucky in the 1960’s looked like a throwback to the 1920’s,
and that’s where I’m from.
Well, one winter afternoon I’m loaded up in a truck by my
parents and I’m taken to a hardware store. It’s the only hardware
store in the entire county, and in the back of that store is a room
that has a hidden door. I had walked by that wall with the door
numerous times with my Dad and my Granddad; did not know it
was there.
So, I was taken in by my Mom and we went through the door and
in this room was about eight to twelve other kids about my age; I
was six years old. And they’re all sitting at these little low
kindergarten-type tables and they all have puzzles and they’re
trying to put the puzzles together.
Now, walking around the room is a lady of European descent,
with an extremely-heavy accent. She comes over to me and helps
me take my jacket off and sets me down and asks me if I’d like to
play. I’m six years old -- of course I want to play. She gives me
some puzzle pieces and says: Make a picture out of the pieces.
Well, for years, since I’ve started regaining all my memories, we
had thought that the test itself was making the correct picture
with the puzzle pieces. We don’t believe that’s so now. What we
think it was now was... The lady’s name was Helga. She was a
transmitter.
460
Audience Member (AM): Can you talk just a little bit louder for
us? [audience member continues but the words are unintelligible,
then audience laughs]
DO’F: Okay. She’s a good friend of mine. I’m going to allow it.
[laughs]
What we believe now is that Helga was a sender, a transmitter, a
psychic transmitter, and the test was to see if I would be a strong
enough receiver, because as the project transgressed through the
years, we were mated up with another: one being the transmitter,
one being the receiver, one being the spotter, one being the
shooter. And that’s how we wound up being two- and three-
person teams, sometimes five. Okay? But we were always
together, psychic to soldier.
Now, I’m just going to jump around a little bit because I’ve got
an hour and I’m going to assume most of you have seen the
interview at one time or another. Okay?
Project Talent – The easiest way to explain what Project Talent
was… is basically, or was basically, the taking of other peoples’
talents and using it for their own purposes. Each one of us taken
into this project had a specific talent which the government took,
trained, increased, enhanced, and exploited. We were never
supposed to regain our memories but most... some of us have.
In 1966 in the group that I was in, there was 1,000 of us. There’re
less than 20 today. Half didn’t survive.
Now, the process… Well first of all, how many knows what
multiple personality disorder is? Yeah. That’s about what I
expected.
What they did with us is they split our personalities. This was
artificially induced and if you go look at one of the paintings on
the back wall when you have a chance, you’ll see a graphic
description of what was done.
The alternate personality is the one that was trained in every
martial art known to humankind. We were trained to fly every
aircraft there was at that time. We were trained in every aspect
that you could think of, every art of war, every part of the
military there was.
We were, in essence, a par elite of soldiers and we were used all
around the world. A lot of our assignments were for termination.
A good deal was for intelligence-gathering, but by and large we
were assassins, pure and simple, and someone needs to be held
responsible for this.
So where do we start? Who do we hold responsible now? I’m 50
years old. The people who did this to us in my generation are
probably long gone. However, the projects continue under
different names, different guises; they still continue. So how do
we stop it? Anybody? How do we stop it?
AM: By people like you talking.
DO’F: I’m just a loudmouth on a stage.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AM: [inaudible]
DO’F: That’s one. How about we turn ourselves against them?
[multiple voices at once / inaudible]
DO’F: We were created to be a private army in the future. People
ask me: If you’re exposing this, you went through all this, why
are you still alive? I’m still alive for two reasons. I was part of a
project; the project has not ended. It’s still ongoing.
The reason most of us are still alive is they hope to activate us
one last time and be the protectors, the private army of the elite of
this country.
I’m not going to do it and I don’t know any of us that will.
[applause]
DO’F: Now, what I’m going to do with the rest of my time is
kind of turn this over to the audience. You know, I don’t have a
whole lot new to talk about. I’ve pretty much done that. There’s a
lot of new things that is still in the hypothesis stage... I never say
anything as fact unless I have three points of reference and proof
to back it up.
So, what I’d like to do is turn this over to kind of a quasi Q&A, if
you don’t mind. So, if anybody has anything that they would like
me to add on to or to explain more, let’s do that for awhile.
Yeah. She had her hand up before you. [laughs with audience]
PC Assistant: Why don’t we have people queue up over here to
save time?
DO’F: That’s fine. Cool. Okay.
AM 1: I know with your multiple personality they have a way of
triggering you, you know, changing you -- have you found with
any of the other people or with yourself, any way to be able to
stop that?
Whether it be, like… I know that we have a third eye and a
capital “I”. You know, some way that you can fight back by not
allowing it to be turned on? How would you have control if they
turned on something that you don’t have any control over?
DO’F: Well, what happened with me is I was in a car accident
about twelve years ago and I had to have an MRI done on my
skull, and it didn’t like the chip or the chip didn’t like it. So, it’s
not completely deactivated, but it’s been damaged enough.
What’s going on now for some of us is… this going to sound so
unbelievable. Our alternate personalities are beginning to merge
with our primary personalities. What were once two people are
now becoming one, and that is something that the Illuminati, the
Elite, the Bankers -- whatever title you want to put on them --
that is something that scares them to death, because the alternate
personalities are integrating our memories, our emotions that they
can’t have.
461
AM 2: You mentioned in the video that you have some
telekinetic abilities. Are you able to consciously control these in
this personality at this point? I’d sure love to see a
demonstration! [Duncan laughs] And also, can you train other
people in how to use some of the stuff you learned?
DO’F: Yeah, the Amazing Randi [Ed note: James Randi is a
world-renown super-skeptic of paranormal phenomena.] would
like to see that too. [laughs] Most of any psy abilities that I have
are tied into the alternate personality. One of the reasons that I
was a shooter is because I was best at being a soldier, not the
psychic spy, not the remote viewer. I was one of the worst remote
viewers in the world. You know, I was more suited to be a
physical, augmented soldier.
AM 3: Yeah, Hi Duncan. I have a book that’s called Mind
Control of America and I understand that you were programmed
as a soldier. This book, the topic of the book, is about women that
were groomed from the time they were very small to be basically
sex slaves for a lot of people who are in power.
DO’F: Project Monarch.
AM 3: Using dark ceremonies in order to control the, kind of the
orgasmic energy, into the darkness. I was just wondering, do you
know about this?
DO’F: Yeah, that’s kundalini magic. That ties in. A lot of these
programs use ritualistic magic and it is dark magic. So, yeah, I
am aware of what you’re talking about.
AM 3: Yeah, because she claims to have had sexual relationships
with a lot of people in power throughout the years; her and a
bunch of women that, like you, are starting to remember and have
shattered multiple personalities, very similar stuff... [end of
sentence unclear]
DO’F: Thank you.
AM 4: Hello and thank you for being here. I read Ender’s Game
and I just want to know, have you read Ender’s Game and, I
guess, have they tried to take people off-planet to cover it up?
And, like, how much of that is true or is it false?
DO’F: I didn’t quite understand.
AM 4: Oh, have you ever read the book Ender’s Game by Orson
Scott Card?
DO’F: No, I haven’t. I don’t watch movies. I don’t read books.
[laughs] I stay away from it as much as I can.
AM 4: Because your story reminds me of Ender’s Game.
Basically Orson Scott Card writes about grooming a six-year-old
to fight the alien invaders that will be coming in the future. But in
Ender’s Game, what happens is that, you know, the government
wants to cover everything up and so they ultimately take people
off-planet. So I was just wondering if you knew…
DO’F: I’m familiar with what you’re saying, but I really couldn’t
answer anything.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AM 4: Okay, great. Thank you.
DO’F: Thank you.
AM 5: I guess we’ve all got books that kind of relate to this and
mine is TRANCE Formation of America.
DO’F: I’m familiar. I’m familiar with it, yeah.
AM 5: In that particular book, pedophilia was one of the means
they used to create multiple personalities and I just wondered was
pedophilia a part of your…?
DO’F: I have no memory of sexual abuse. This is the reason I
wanted to do the Q&A. Every question is leading me into the
explanation [that] I was wanting to get into. My alternate was
instilled due to trauma-based torture. Okay? I was, over a period
of time…
What a lot of people think when they see the previous interviews
is that once I was taken from Kentucky to wherever I went, this
was done instantaneous over one day. No, this took place over
weeks and months. All right?
We started out with being strapped into a wooden chair, with the
strobe lights, being talked to, slapped around. I learned what
water-boarding was by the time I was seven. Okay? Then they
would start with the needles under the fingernails. They would do
one, then a few days, maybe a week later, two. The purpose for
this was to increase the pain tolerance. Okay?
They wanted us to have a pain tolerance that was unbelievable, so
that they could finally get to the point to where they could have
all ten fingernails with needles underneath and then an electric
current being put through them. Then I was given a drug so that I
could not faint, I couldn’t black out.
So at that point, your psyche has a choice to split off to an
alternate personality or die. I split. Most of them didn’t. Does that
help?
AM 6: I think you’re very brave to come to this sort of meeting...
I would think you would be at risk. But anyway, you were
mentioning that there were initially 1,000 recruits. Now did all
1,000 go through the program or... you said there are only 20
remaining?
DO’F: It’s my understanding that only 20 of us are remaining
alive. The 1,000 that were taken into the project in 1966 were the
first generation-augmented individuals. They were from all over
the world. I remember kids from Australia, England... when I say
from all over the world, I’m talking about the Allies, the Allied
countries that we had at that time.
I do know that the former Soviet Union was working on a very
similar program, as well as China was working on a similar
program. There was one incident in my early 20s when I went up
against one of my Soviet counterparts. I lost that one.
AM 7: How did your parents react to this? Did they have a
problem with that? [audience laughs]
462
DO’F: My parents? I’m going to be diplomatic. [laughs] No, it’s
a good question, it’s an excellent question. My father was in the
CIA. That’s how my involvement came about. This is a
generational project. I haven’t spoken to my mother or my
siblings in over 20 years and I have no desire to. What do they
think about this? [makes dismissive sound] They would probably
as soon see me in the ground right now, and that’s being
diplomatic.
aM 8: Duncan, I’m very sympathetic with your state, the severe
trauma that makes the multiple personality disorder, and in fact,
most of our soldiers who go abroad and experience trauma
experience something called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
DO’F: Right.
AM 8: You have a very severe case of that and I would like to
suggest, if you didn’t know about it, there are some very good
mind/ body medicine techniques that can be used to really release
the trauma and emotions connected with the trauma that could
possibly lead to a healing. And when you said that you felt that
the various personalities were beginning to merge, actually I
think that’s the mind/ body trying to heal.
But I think the point is that you want to get rid of the Traumatic
Stress Disorder, so that you can go back to being your whole self.
So, if you want more information about that, I may be able to
help you.
DO’F: Sure. Thank you. The problem with that, with the
personalities merging? When that begins to take place, we really
don’t have a choice. We either let the personalities merge
together; we let the implanted personality take control, which
would not be a good thing; or we become one person kind of
right down the middle with the original and the augmented...
something that at least has some emotions and some
understanding of right and wrong.
The alternate personality has, at that time before they begin to
merge, has no emotions. Right and wrong means nothing – okay?
– simply follow orders.
AM 9: Duncan, thank you for being here and sharing with us
today.
DO’F: Thank you.
AM 9: It’s probably been a couple of years since I’ve seen your
interview. I was wondering if you could talk about the experience
when you were in a team, I guess? You were youngsters... when
you came in. I don’t remember if you guys stood in a semi-circle
or a full circle, but you took out the enemy. Could you discuss
your perspective on the energetic mechanics of what was going
on, how you did that, and perhaps some of the other phenomenon
that might have been similar?
DO’F: Yeah... ah... [makes shushing gesture] s-h-h-h. Don’t tell
anybody; we were in Cambodia. We weren’t supposed to be in
Cambodia during Vietnam – okay? – but we were there. There
are some people in this room that were there. After we’re
finished, if anybody wants to talk to them, I’ll introduce you.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
We were thrown in as part of a rescue operation. A couple of
SEAL teams and OSS [Ed note: Office of Strategic Services]
teams were pinned down by Khmer Rouge fire. The process by…
ah... What we did, I really don’t have an explanation. But you’re
correct. We came out and we formed a semi-circle facing the
direction of the enemy fire, and we do have some more
information on that since we did the interview.
There were twelve of us. I was Team Leader. Consider: each of
us as an individual acted as a battery and we transferred all that
energy into something else – it was a thirteenth person, but we
don’t know who the thirteenth person was. The thirteen, again,
being a ritual number.
The number of dead that day numbered in the hundreds. We then
got back on the chopper and we flew off.
AM 9: I take it that that was also another aspect of the training
that one of the other personalities is schooled in.
DO’F: Correct. Correct. Thanks.
AM 10: Thank you, Duncan, for being here. You’re very brave.
DO’F: Thank you.
AM 10: I watched the video with Dave Corso and you seemed to
have more memory than he did. He doesn’t seem to have the
memories that you do or... [inaudible]... Was he in your program,
or was he the generation that failed?
DO’F: No, Corso was not in my particular project. He was in a
different sub-project. Okay? Project Talent wasn’t the only game
in town with all this. There were a dozen sub-projects going on.
For example, Project Talent fell underneath the umbrella of MK
Ultra, MK Ultra being a catchall phrase for anything concerning
mind control.
There were 172 different sub-programs under MK Ultra --
Project Talent being one. Project Talent was where I began and
then I was moved. As I said a lot of times, Project Talent’s like
going to school – okay? – and I was moved from Project Talent
to the Ultimate Warrior Project, because I was more suited to be
a physical soldier than a mental/ psychic soldier.
To answer your question about Dave Corso, Dave Corso began
getting his memories right the time he should, late 50s pushing
60, 61. That is when the blocks begin to wear down and the
memories start to come together. He got them back right at the
perfect time.
I got my memories back because of an automobile accident. If I
had not had the accident, I don’t think I’d standing up here right
now. I would probably still be utilized and I would probably be in
the Middle East right now.
AM 10: You’d still be working?
DO’F: I have no doubt that I would still be part of the program.
AM 10: Thank you.
463
DO’F: Yep.
AM 11: Hi Duncan.
DO’F: Hi.
AM 11: I grew up in eastern Kentucky, so I’m very familiar with
that area and the people that live there. One of the interesting
things about that area was that in the 1500s and 1600s, a lot of
the people that populate those mountains and areas were people
from the British Isles and they were, I don’t say all, I’d say
some... [inaudible]... were running from the law, so they
populated those mountains and they were very closely knit and
still are in the community. And my question to you is, can you
talk about… you mentioned that your grandfather was
[inaudible]... Can you talk about that at all and how that affected
you?
DO’F: I had two grandfathers at that time. One’s name was Bull.
He was full-blooded Cherokee. The other was my father’s
stepfather and I grew up more with my father’s stepfather than I
did ever… What county or what town were you from?
AM 11: Ashland. [says more... inaudible]
DO’F: Ashland? Okay, I know where you’re from. Yeah, you’re
absolutely right, during that time the mountains were littered with
people that bail bondsmen would love to have seen. [laughs]
They probably still are. [laughs] In all honesty, I have not been
back there in 17 years. It’s been that long since I’ve been back
and I seriously doubt if I will ever go back. Okay?
AM 12: Duncan, you talked about how the two personalities for
those less than 20 of you from your group who are still here are
merging, these personalities.
DO’F: Right.
AM 12: And the Powers That Be are fearful of that. You said
they don’t want that to happen.
DO’F: Right. Correct.
AM 12: Can you just touch a little bit on that and why? What’s
causing those two personalities at this time to merge?
DO’F: What’s causing the merging? We have no clue and neither
do they because it was not supposed to take place.
What terrifies them about the two personalities merging? My
alternate personalities... one of my alternates; I have four. Two of
them, we don’t know how they got there. Okay? My primary
alternate is known as Omega Unit 197. He knows where all the
bodies are buried. He has all the knowledge, all the locations, the
dates, the places, the bank accounts, etcetera. Imagine when we
finally merge, I’ll have that knowledge in this personality.
That better terrify them because I will turn it against them.
[applause]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Hi there. I just want to sort of step in here and sort of help
move things along here. Duncan, you’re doing a great job.
There’s some interesting energy in the room right now. Miriam
Delicado are you in the audience? Is she there? Okay, if she is,
could she please come on stage? Thank you.
This is Dave Corso. [applause] Bill, are you with us? Thank you.
Okay.
DO’F: I need a little break for a minute.
KC: We’re just going to give Duncan a little breather here and I’d
like Dave Corso to say a few words to you. Duncan does have
more than one alternate and he is investigating this very deeply.
You have to understand that once somebody does that, breaking
down those walls makes them very vulnerable.
And if you’ve seen the recent Terminator movie, it’s no lie –
okay? – so just follow that character’s trajectory in trying to find
out what was done to him and watch his emotions and you’ll
have some clue as to what’s going on here. Okay? So, if you
haven’t seen the movie, I encourage you to do so because it’s
really remarkable.
Dave Corso...
DAVE CORSO (DC): Thank you. [applause]
[muffled / unclear; Dave is paying a compliment to Kerry] ...to be
where you are.
KC: [whispers] Thank you.
DC: Let me explain to you how I met Duncan in this iteration of
life. We had a mutual friend named John Morrow. John Morrow
was the thirteenth member of the team. When the helicopter
landed in... [inaudible / broken up; Duncan’s voice being picked
up by mic, overriding Dave’s voice]
There’s an energy that’s working in here now ... bring it on!
[applause]
My team was sent to rescue another Special Forces-type team.
We had some problems. I called for backup. Well, about 10
minutes later, this CH-47 Chinook lands and these twelve kids
get out... What the hell was this? Bullets flying everywhere!
464
There’s this little kid with a big Afro, a white kid, that one right
there. [indicates Duncan/ audience laughs]
I said: What the hell’s this?
Before I could ask the question, these kids formed a circle, joined
hands and there was a thunderclap and a flash of light like I’ve
never seen. I looked at the helicopter as my vision comes back
and there’s a guy, and I said: I don’t know this guy; I don’t even
know what his uniform is. He was an Officer in the Army, I think.
To make a long story short, they flew away, we got together our
team that had come to rescue... and I asked the Master Sergeant:
What do you know? What do you recall?
And he said: A blinding flash and the bullets stopped. There were
hundreds of Vietcong bodies as we wended our way back out,
and we got to our chopper and we got out of there
About two weeks later in Saigon, I ran across this Officer again
and he had this horrified look on his face. He had an insignia on
his shoulder that I had never seen before. Okay, that was 1967.
Let’s fast-forward to 1992. I’m in Pahrump, Nevada, in my
computer shop and this guy walks through the door and my first
instinct was to kill him. And I said: Why do I feel that way?
Well, as he introduced himself -- his name was John Morrow --
as he and I talked, I could sense there was something unusual
about this gentleman. Well, John and I got to be good friends and
one day after I had closed my shop... John was over because I
was doing some work on his computer.
I said: Let me tell you, John, what I first experienced with you.
When you first came in my shop…
I says: …my first instinct was to kill you, and John Morrow’s fact
got ashen-white.
I said: I know you from Vietnam. I said: When you introduced
Duncan and I in this iteration, you were surprised that we knew
each other and you were even more surprised that Sean and I
knew each other.
I said: You didn’t expect that.
He said: No.
He gave me some more background on Dunc’, because he was
one of Dunc’s trainers.
John Morrow was a very unassuming gentleman. When you
looked at him, you’d think what a big teddy bear. John loved
cats. John loved my dogs. John was my friend, but he was a
robot.
There’s a robot or two in here today. I no longer sense their being
a danger, but when I met Dunc – and I’m not telling the story
about the yellow snake, either [Duncan laughs] -- that’s a story
for another time, but you won’t believe it and I didn’t...
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
My son… I have a son that’s named David Thomas. He has an
unusual knack of... he’ll ask me what I think are stupid questions
until I think about it.
My nightmares started in 1983 when my son and I are sitting in
the little two-man rubber life raft fishing in Strawberry Lake in
California.
He looked at me and said: Daddy, I got a question for you.
I said: What’s that?
He says: What did you do in Vietnam? What did you really do?
Because at times, man, you just act really weird!
(I said: [thinking] He’s nine years old. What’s he asking me what
I did in Vietnam for?)
I said: I think I did... this. That night, the nightmares started.
Dunc and I have been through iterations of life together, as have
Allison and I, and Laura and I. I’m here to meet people, to tell
you this: Whatever Duncan says, you can take it to the bank.
[applause]
DC: Dunc has other information that I don’t know if he’s going
to share today or not that I’m privy to. He talked about teams of
three. Well, the third member is here today.
I’m the anchor. Dunc’s the soldier and we have the outlook, this
iteration of “outlook.” There are more than one.
I am so grateful that I live in this country. I had an opportunity to
go to work for the Russians after my term was over in the US
military. I looked at this guy and I said: What you are going to
give me? Make me a Major for six months, get my information
and kill me? As I turned to walk away, he was gone. [snaps
fingers] That quick. It happened on a street in Oakland,
California.
You all have good hearts and souls, but I’ve seen one thing,
because my talent is taking a mosaic and making a picture.
A lot of you have a lot of the pieces. We need to sit down as a
group and not design a camel, which is a horse designed by
committee, but sit as a group, bring out one truth. The truth
stands by itself. And what is the truth? Well, it’s something that
is politically acceptable today. It may not be politically
acceptable tomorrow.
Well, the truth is this, relaying an event or situation exactly as it
is without taking to or adding from that event to make someone
right or somebody wrong. Believe me, I know that’s true. People
say I’m crazy. Well, I’m not crazy. It just happens you’re not in
my normal realm. [laughter/ applause]
I have wolves. I raised wolves and I have a wolf that lives in my
house. He’s a purebred wolf.
465
DO’F: I thought he was mine.
DC: [to Duncan] You can dream on all you want. [laughs] I have
a wolf named Herk. Dunc and I made a 300-mile trip, about a
400-mile trip one way. I took Herk with me because I felt so
inspired. Now, this wolf was, what, four months old? He was
four months old.
He got in the car just like it was normal. A hundred and fifty
miles down the road, he stands up and looks at Duncan, he looks
at me and I said: I think we’d better stop. He had to do his thing.
He got back in the car. We drove on. We got to our destination
and I thought to myself: This is a purebred wolf… This woman
had two little dogs as I recall.
DO’F: Yeah, and a cat.
DC: And a cat. My wolf got along fine with them.
[from the background]: Woof! [laughter/ applause]
DC: Thank you, boy, I appreciate that!
DO’F: You had to do it, didn’t you?
DC: Well, I got a thing with dogs. Anyways, as we were coming
home we stopped at a well-known sandwich shop. We got two
burgers: two for Dunc, two for me, and two for the “dog”. You
know what? My dog wouldn’t eat them. He buried them in the
seat; I found them the next day. So much for lovin’ it, I guess.
But I have had some amazing adventures with Dunc. Sitting in
my living room like it says in my interview… Now, stereo and
things were turned off; it shouldn’t make a noise. Right? How
about a loud pop that hurts your ears? Have you ever experienced
that? Electronics go pop? It’s a psychic attack.
Audience: [inaudible]
DC: Well, you were there, you should know. Either that or your
twin sister was there. I have a lot of fun with life. Things seem to
be clearer in the here and now, and if they’re not, bring it on...
[unclear]... I’m ready for ya.
KC: That’s right. Okay, let’s take a couple of the other questions
here. You’ve got two people and you can ask, either one. Duncan
has actually got a mic on him. Duncan, say a few words, so we
can make sure it’s working.
AM 13: Okay. Hi, I’m just wondering if we look x-ray
photographs of your arm, your shoulder, and your head, would
we see anything interesting in those?
DO’F: You would see metallic objects. I have x-rays and
photographs of the implant in my left hand; the cranial implant. I
don’t have one of the shoulders, because I can’t seem to get my
HMO to pay for it.
AM 13: You think you could release those online for us?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
DO’F: Pardon?
AM 13: Could you release those photographs online for us?
DO’F: They are.
AM 13: They are? Are they anywhere on your website?
DO’F: They’re on my website, yeah.
AM 13: Thanks.
DO’F: Mm-hm. It’s www.duncanofinioan.com.
AM 13: If you could say that website one more time?
DO’F: www.duncanofinioan.com.
AM 14: First I just want to thank you both for being here today
and for being courageous enough to speak with us and tell your
stories. I do have a few questions. One is Project Talent. What
were some of the other talents that the children expressed and, if
you could, introduce us to some of them that are remaining
today?
DC: Project Talent, like Duncan said, is a far-reaching program.
My talent, among others, is taking a mosaic of little bits of
information and giving you a very clear picture. That has been
brought home this weekend. There are people here that I was
meant to meet. There’s three in the back room right now.
I wasn’t taken for periods of time. I was taken for the summers. I
was a summer school, so to speak. My training started when I
was six years old when my brother brought home – who
happened to be a Staff Sergeant in the Marine Corps at that time
– brought home a .22 target rifle. That was part of my training
because he was also in early Project Talent, as I found out later.
But, I would be gone in the summer, come home in time to go to
school, and I had all these memories of being with my Uncle Ed
who was a peddler. Great con-man.
I asked my mother one time before she died, I said: Mom, I got a
question for you.
She said: What?
I said: I have these memories of being with my Uncle Ed in the
summertime, going out on the road.
She says: You were never with Uncle Ed.
I said: Then what did I do?
She said: When you get older, you’ll figure it out. And mother
gave me that smile that said: You’ve asked enough questions.
466
Mother, God rest her soul, went Home in 1993. Before she went,
she showed me a journal she had kept of the time I was in the
service. Every time I got hurt, every time something significant
happened on a mission, she wrote down where I was, what I was
doing, and where I got hurt and what the event was.
I said: How did you know this?
And she said: I am your psychic anchor.
I said: I didn’t know that.
She said: There’re lots you don’t know yet.
My mother, God rest her, was an angel. Boy, could she be a holy
terror. [Duncan laughs] I’m different than Dunc. I don’t have any
Native American blood in me that I know of. However, I say I’m
Sicilian, that’s because my mother was Scotch-Irish. My father
was purebred Sicilian and I was raised by my grandparents.
And it’s interesting to know that when I was talking to the third
member of our team... Friday morning I’m laying in bed at my
niece’s before I come over here, at 4:30 in the morning and I
said, Hey Allie, it’s 4:30. Send a message to him, but he never
gets it.
I ask Allie, I says: What happened at 4:30 this morning?
She said I woke up out of a sound sleep and sat up and said:
What’s this?
Psychic abilities are alive and well. I’m just finding out what
mine are. I never thought to even question myself about it.
Well, last night we were sitting in the cafe. Allie and I looked at
each other at the same time and… somebody was there.
Somebody was there. There was a psychic vampire, was the
second thing we noticed.
Robots don’t know they’re being used. They don’t know what
training they’ve had. They have no knowledge, no memory, so
we can’t hold it against them personally. But understand, as many
people as there are, are different programs because everybody has
different natural native talents that have to be...ah... capitalized
on. And I hope I’ve answered your question.
Am 14: Yes, you did and I have two more, actually.
DC: Go ahead.
AM 14: You almost actually lead into them. The second question
is how can we locate, communicate with, the members of the
subsequent programs, the next generations that they were talking
about, and help them to understand what’s going on with them?
DO’F: I don’t think you want to. We are the way we are without
explanation. We don’t have one. As I said earlier, we were never
supposed to retrieve our memories, at least not at this age. I
helped Dave get his back. I got mine back due to an automobile
accident, so I woke up early.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The generation of people that are in this project today, which
would be the fourth generation... Jeez! That is a very scary
thought: To try to locate one of these guys and communicate and
try to reason with that person, if they’re in an alter [personality].
BR: We have some information about the fourth generation that I
think, in the context of what you’ve told us, we should maybe say
a few words about.
These soldiers are not human. They can sit in a doctor’s surgery
and pass the tests and the doctor would not know if it was not an
invasive test. Blood pressure reading, EEG, ECG; they pass the
tests. They’d be a healthy, strong-looking, quite large, muscular-
looking man.
The person who told us this once had a company, had a
corporation, and the name of that corporation was Cyberdyne.
Anyone seen the Terminator movies? Okay. This is a reference to
what we heard yesterday about how the reality merges into the
Hollywood movie industry as a way of, I believe, primarily as a
way of disguising the truth, because when somebody says: Hey,
you know, these stargates are real, then they get laughed at
because it was just something that came out of a movie script.
This is how they hide things like that.
Cyberdyne is one of those examples. The person who told us this,
we pushed quite a lot. We had quite an interesting conversation
about it and we were given to understand that one of the many
functions of these soldiers, for lack of a better word... of course
they can go into space without any problem at all. They don’t
need to breathe.
And the numbers of these soldiers, we were told, were something
in the region of 15,000. They’ve never been deployed in combat,
we were told, because then their existence would be revealed. But
whoever the enemy is, and we’re not sure in this context, they are
given to believe that they exist, but they’ve never been used.
Now, that’s pretty much all I know. I’d like to ask Dave and
Duncan here whether this fits with what you believe you
understand. This is a conversation we haven’t had.
DC: It, of necessity, has to fit. I mean, Bill gave an analogy with
airplanes, on the generations. Let’s take a better look, let’s take a
look at computers. In 1962 when I was first introduced to
computers, they’d almost fill this room. Yet I have one sitting on
my desk. Well, I have six computers on my network at home. I
happen to like to play with computers. That computer is three
years old. It has more computing power than the first five
computers they built that were the size of this room.
Every... it used to be every two years, then it was every 18
months and now it’s every year they double the capacity and
abilities of microprocessor chips. A microprocessor chip is about
the size of a half-dollar. Used to be they had one computer chip
system inside there, then there was two, now there’s four. Same
size chip.
So his analogy that he wants is, what’s the fourth generation like?
They’re probably in fifth or sixth generation by now. That, to me,
is absolutely terrifying and I’m scared of damned few things in
this world. And we’re not talking about the yellow snake either.
[Duncan laughs] All right, I’ll confess: I hate snakes. [laughter]
467
DO’F: Listen, long and short: You do not create an army unless
you intend to deploy that army. This fourth generation Super
Soldier / Warrior Soldier, whatever you want to call it, are some
bad people. I couldn’t stop one. I was the best we had at my
generation. I cannot stop one. The possibility is very, very real
they will be turned loose on the American populace. What do you
want to do about it? I want to stop it.
If they turn this fourth generation loose on us, we’re toast. And
they will try to reactivate each and every one of us in first,
second, and third generation to join with them.
If we don’t expose them now and try to at least put up a
blockade, we will not have a chance. They are that good. They
are that strong. They are that invincible. We have very, very little
time in which to pull this thing off. So what do you want to do
about it?
BR: Just a little data-point which I’ve just remembered... we were
told that two of these can pick up an Abrams tank. [laughter /
comments – inaudible]
DO’F: I can do a 1,000-pound dead-lift at 49 years old and a
broken neck. My neck was broken in three places in my car
accident. I was never supposed to lift anything heavier than a cup
of coffee. I can dead-lift 1,000 pounds. That’s first generation.
What Bill just said about fourth generation… think about it.
KC: I just want to add that we have been told – Okay? – can’t say
where our source came from, but that Duncan’s quite right that
the American people, for one, are targets, could be the targets of
some of this army at some point in the future.
We were also told that a war is “anticipated”, if you will; one
with China and two with visiting races, off-planet – okay? – and
that these “beings” that are being created actually have the
capacity to handle that situation. And all of this is absolutely Top
Secret, absolutely.
The fact that Duncan is coming forward and Dave Corso, and the
fact that they found each other means that there is a power higher
and more powerful than anything created by man. It’s testimony
to that, the fact that we are finding each other.
There are some other people in this audience today that found us
and found Dave Corso and Duncan and they were involved as
well. And they, some of them, don’t even know how deep yet.
Okay? Some of those people were used, again, against their will.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And I have to say that, you know, there are a lot of soldiers out
there being used in very many different ways that they don’t
realize. There are also people, sleepers, all around us that are
being used even at night in their, if you want to call it, their light-
body, being used, being trained, being utilized. So this is a very
deep rabbit hole, so I just wanted to sort of paint that for you a
bit.
AM 15: What is a blockade?
KC: Say that again.
AM 15: What is a blockade? He mentioned we need a blockade.
DC: What blockade? Blockade?
KC: Blockade.
DO’F: Oh, no, no, no. I said throw up a block, like playing
football, to try to put a block up, so that they can’t get to you.
Information. We need as many people to come forward as
possible. We need you, anything an individual can do, even if it’s
as little as mentioning what’s talked about here on a radio
program. Even… be a call-in. Even as much as writing your
Congressman. I know that’s a waste of time, but you can flood
their offices. I know. I’ve written the President, okay? I get fan
letters. [laughs]
Whatever you can do… because, people -- this is a war, make no
mistake about it. And we are going to be fighting an enemy that
you cannot imagine. Okay? So we need help. We need your help.
AM 16: Could we not just stop them by meditation? Is it not
possible to change ... [unclear] ... by actually projecting it ...
[unclear]
DO’F: Right.
AM 16: I mean, we as people have no strength, but we have the
strength of our thoughts.
DO’F: That’s very true, absolutely very true and I appreciate
everything you and others that I know in here that are working
right now. Okay? That’s very true.
But at the same time, we need a physical presence, to show a
physical presence that We know who you are, we know what your
agenda is, we’re going to stop you one way or another.
All the love and light works with it. They compliment each other.
You can’t have one without the other. That’s the point that I was
trying to make. And I do have a nasty habit of speaking too fast
because my brain works faster than my mouth and a lot of times
it doesn’t make sense. So you just have to tell me to shut up, say
it again, slow down with it and go.
AM 17: It’s my last question and after, I’ll just offer one possible
solution, but I’m glad you mentioned that everyone has talents. I
was curious how the rest of everyone here as well as around the
world can identify and develop their talents responsibly?
468
DO’F: It’s generally widely accepted that everyone has a certain
degree of PSI abilities. We’re born with that. If you’re asking me
how would you go about strengthening or enhancing that? First
of all, stay away from anything that has “Project” on the
beginning of it. [laughter from all and applause]
KC: Except for Project Camelot, of course.
Audience: [laughter from all]
DO’F: All right, my mistake. [laughs] Find a teacher. Find a
teacher, someone who is a white-lighter, a true white-lighter, and
work with them. Let them teach you.
AM 17: And then the possible solution... It was with a
conversation with Cynthia and another one of the guests, she said
that similar to what this individual was talking about, if we can
send white light energy and love -- call it prayer, call it what you
will, to... you know, it’s a radical idea…
…but to the Illuminati and to leaders out there, so that they can
help to understand, really, what they’re doing and so that they
will have more love and actually change their minds to prevent
unleashing such a Super Soldier force, as well as helping to
shield them in the same energies that are shielding you, so that
the negative energies that are around them will not be able to be
around them.
DO’F: You raise an excellent point, but, however, believe me, the
Illuminati know exactly what they’re doing. To pick up on what
you’re running with: thought equals action. So, as the lady here
said with the positive thoughts -- absolutely, you can manifest
those positive thoughts into reality. What you’re saying has merit
and it possibly has a chance, but in the meantime, we need to
have some type of preparation if it doesn’t work.
AM 17: Absolutely. Thank you so much.
KC: I want to say something here. What we’re talking about is
awareness – okay? – being awake and being aware, knowing,
becoming aware. Just the act of learning and becoming aware,
just what we’re doing right here, this creates the power. Okay?
It’s not enough to just send blind light, blind love – it must be
intelligent. It must have perception attached. You must do more
than just give the heart. Okay? You must understand what you’re
seeing and why you’re doing what you’re doing. So, knowing
and putting that piece together. That’s the missing piece. And
then, it’s awareness. What you want to convey is the awareness
of all the aspects of what’s going on there. Okay?
So if you’re loving, you’re loving consciously, knowing all the
parameters of what that means, not blindly. So don’t give your
energy blindly. If you want to give your energy and power and
light and love to the Illuminati, know what you’re doing. Be
conscious while you’re doing it.
MIRIAM DELICADO (MD): I want to tell you that, in that
respect, there’s something that I’ve done in the past in a
particular situation where there were so many people involved,
there were so many levels of understanding. I really sat and I
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
meditated and asked my contacts: What is it that I can send to
them?
So I sent one message: I asked for every individual involved to
see the truth, to understand it, and accept it. Because the truth
will come from universal understanding and not only truth on the
level of life here. So the truth would be that they’re doing wrong
and they would see it, they would understand it, and they would
accept it, and then there is no choice. At that point comes change.
So send them, and send the world, that the world sees and
understands and accepts the truth. Thank you. [applause]
KC: So awareness is its best defense. That’s your defense: total
awareness. That means that when the Earth and all Humanity is
an awake Being, one awake Being, then nothing can stop you.
Okay?
AM 18: Good morning, gentlemen. Thanks for being here. Have
either of you tried hypnosis to try to fill in some of the blanks or
merge the personalities? I know it’s probably a silly question,
you probably…
DO’F: Oh no, it’s not a silly question at all. It’s a logical
assumption that we had done that and the answer to the question
is, yeah, I did, once, but I tried to kill the therapist. The alternate
took over and tried to kill the therapist.
AM 18: I was going to volunteer. [laughter] We’ll save that!
DO’F: This is an idea that some of us have actually bounced
around for a couple of years, is that – if we can find a therapist
who’s willing to do this – I would have to be chained to where I
couldn’t move and then you can do what you do. And if... not if,
but when the alternate is triggered, hopefully you’d be safe.
AM 18: I’m game.
DO’F: Okay, we’ll definitely talk about it.
cynthia crawford (CC): I have a statement that is going to be very
profound for you. I have contact with Beings from other worlds
and I have my whole life. I have been… the government has tried
to kill me because I am a product of a hybrid program they
created.
But recently when I was in Laughlin, I was blessed to meet a man
who has been taken out of his bed against his will, forced on
these ships and trained, and this includes his family, trained to
use alien technology to kill. And Barbara Lamb, as some of you
know, did not know how to respond other than: Did you try using
love and light on these beings to stop them?
And the gentleman said: There is no amount of love and light to
stop them.
And he was brought to me and I said to him: If love and light and
all these religious different things people say, “Send the power of
the Christ energy to them,” doesn’t work, perhaps they are of the
light.
469
And all of a sudden I was downloaded with information that just
blew me away. I found out there is a number of thousands upon
thousands of Sirian Warriors of Light that are on this planet now
that have the ability with the alien technology to protect the Light
Workers – not only to protect them, they will kill them [Ed note:
killing the Super Solders, that is.] if they have to. And they are
designed to go up against the super-humans and you would not
believe what they are doing.
I have been shown the stargates, as I know you guys know about
the stargates, what’s going to happen on the stargates. You know
about that?
DO’F: I’m not touching that one. I do know about the stargates.
CC: Okay. Well, I’ve been shown what’s going to happen in the
future. But I have to tell you, you have to trust in the Sirian
Warriors of Light. They are here for a purpose. Many of them are
just beginning to wake up. They also have with them, besides the
army that’s going to help fight against the super-humans, they
also have people, including a 13-year-old girl I met who can
literally do hands-on healing and she’s also Sirian.
They are waking up. They’re getting ready. They’re preparing
and they said there’s an urgency now – now – to wake up. We all
need to put our own light and love behind them and with them,
because we’re going to have a hard job. It’s going to be very
hard, but we can do it.
Thank you. [applause]
DO’F: Thank you.
AM 19: Hi. Thank you for being here. My question... you
mentioned yesterday on the panel one of the positive things that
you were doing kind of just for the next year, you had mentioned
music. But you had just mentioned that you don’t watch
television or anything like that or movies, and I understand that
your training was probably trauma-based, but there is music
triggers as well. So I’m just curious, is there any music that you
can’t... or if anything has happened if you have listened to any
music?
DO’F: What I was doing yesterday was using… I think what I
said about if the government controls alien ET Disclosure, I don’t
like the music at that party. I was just using that as a comic
reference. But to answer your question fully, no, I watch very
little TV. As far as music goes, I stick with classical. I like Celtic
music. That’s about it.
AM 19: Okay, thank you.
AM 20: Duncan, in light of the purpose in the whole way that
Camelot works, which is to expose and to be protected by
exposure of truth, have you guys thought about doing everything
you could to get actual memories with dates, times, who was
killed, where they were killed and a list of it that would fully
expose the program and could have a… Yeah.
DO’F: That, in some respects, would definitely help to expose,
but it wouldn’t entirely expose. What we have been doing is
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
basically putting a call out for anyone who is involved with these
projects to get in touch with us.
And as I have made reference to with people over this weekend –
my group. That’s my group. We’re all past unwilling participants
in one project or another with this. So, we’re trying to come
together and by coming together and talking and putting all
this… that’s how we’re getting the dates, the places and
everything combined.
What a lot of people have to understand is that they may
remember an event at one time. I’ll remember the exact same
event with a different date. Then we’ll have someone else who
was also part of this exact same event, but they remember it at an
entirely different date. And that is done because when the
memory is repressed into the altered personality, you’re told it
happened this date.
AM 20: But if you could check it against the actual record…
DO’F: And that’s what we do. That’s why I said earlier, I don’t
talk about anything as fact unless I have three points of reference
in fact.
AM 20: [laughs] I do the same thing. Well, it seems to me people
coming up and saying I was this part of the program without
being able to show what was done will bring people more into the
awareness for this exposure.
DC: I have a question for you. What’s your memory of what
happened two hours ago?
AM 20: Very good
DC: Are you sure?
AM 20: Yeah.
DC: It’s different than mine is.
AM 20: Yeah. I understand.
DC: But does it make yours any the less true?
AM 20: There is a physical...
DC: Does it make your memory of what happened two hours ago
any less true than what mine is? Yes or not?
AM 20: I’m not talking about our memories. I’m talking about
checking it against the physical universe.
DC: I’m going to give you an example here, if you’ll just bear
with me. Yes or no? Does it change your perception of what
happened two hours ago? Yes or no.
AM 20: I, actually, wouldn’t judge my perception that way. I
would judge it by checking it...
DC: You have not answered my question.
470
AM 20: All right. [laughs]
DC: The question is this: What happened two hours ago, in your
perception of what the world is and my perception of what the
world is, are they the same?
AM 20: No, they’re not.
DC: By your admission, does that make yours any the less valid?
AM 20: It doesn’t make either one valid or invalid to me.
DC: Thank you. You have answered your question.
DO’F: The fact is, basically what happens, it also a lot depends
on the age of the individual when the memory comes back. And,
as I said, they also screw with the memories when they repress
them and push them back into the alternate and they will in that
memory screw up the dates.
AM 20: Right. Right.
DO’F: Now, as to what you were alluding to also is just because
someone contacts us and says I was in part of this project or this
project, does that make it so? No, it doesn’t. They have to go
through our own little testing process to see if they were or they
weren’t.
But to finish up with why we have the different perceptions on
dates, we really don’t have a correct answer, but there’ll be a
dozen of us; we’ll remember the exact same event, the exact
same people there, but I’ll remember it say, spring; he’ll
remember it, say the winter, but yet the event’s the same. The
year will be different. The month will be different.
AM 20: I understand. It just seemed to me that checking it
against a historical record that is in public domain would have
some effect.
DO’F: I’ve got to do this. The problem with that is there’s a
reason these are called black operations. [laughter] They ain’t
supposed to happen. There are records, but none that we’re going
to be able to take and look at, so we can’t do that.
KC: There’s also time travel involved here. And there’s messing
with... there’s implanted memories, false memories, false dates.
There are layers upon layers, so, you know, digging into this
question is... to actually look for real life events, it’s a rabbit hole.
There are so many levels, based on what we’ve heard from
various people. That includes the testimony of ‘Henry Deacon’,
Arthur Neumann. Okay?
There’s also something on the Internet, Stephanie Relfe, who
interviewed her husband [in a book], called The Mars Records.
Very interesting. She used some Scientology techniques, as well
as some other healing techniques to get to the root of some of his
memories. A lot of what he did happened on other timelines
simultaneously when he was other places. I mean, it gives you a
beginning of an understanding, how the layers can happen.
We actually… this is fascinating and this has been amazing.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Thank you, both, Duncan O’Finioan and Dave Corso. [applause]
KC: And… Yes, absolutely.
DC: If I could have your attention for one minute. How many of
you have ever got a phone call, you picked up the phone and
there was nobody there? How many of you use caller ID to
screen your calls?
Let me tell you a little adventure I had. I had a phone call. It
looked like my son was calling me. However, when I picked up
the phone, there were tones coming out of the earpiece on the
phone. It wasn’t my son calling me. They can manipulate caller
ID to give you any number they want.
If you pick up the phone and you hear something funny, or you
think you hear something funny, hang the phone up.
If I get a call from an unknown number or an 800 number of a
blank number, I simply don’t answer the phone. [laughter]
KC: [to the audience] Yeah, I have to say, you guys are being
mind-controlled – okay? – your televisions, you name it, the
technical devices around you, scalar weaponry. It’s not just these
two guys. Okay? It’s happening to all of us.
You must become aware in order to resist it, so you need to know
that these things, telephone calls, television programs, various
anomalous events that happen in your midst, pulses sent through
stereo equipment.
Actually wild things, we’ve had some things happen up here with
some of this equipment. Same thing.
Thank you very much for being here for this.

That’s a very common way to initiate triggers. Just be warned Thank you so much for coming. [applause]
when you’re called, make sure you feel comfortable answering
the phone call.
**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription
Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several
years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

471
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Alex Collier - Lecture Transcript
September 20, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): We’re very honored to have Alex
Collier join us. This is pretty much unprecedented. He does not
speak, as you may know, often or even has in quite some time.
So I just wanted to say that I got a message over a year ago that
the Andromedans wished to speak and that they wished Alex
Collier to come to Camelot and that we could provide a service or
a platform for that. So we’ve been working to have that happen.
It’s taken quite some time.
We’re really happy that this can happen today and we just want
to say thank you very much for making this possible to the
hidden beings here and around us at this time.
So, Alex, I’m actually not going to give you a big introduction
beyond that today. I’m going to let you speak for yourself.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Alex Collier. [applause]
ALEX COLLIER (AC): Can you all hear? All right. Great. I
want to thank all the speakers. I was at home yesterday watching
the streaming and God, they were just... you know, George
Green, and just all of the speakers – just fantastic. They give so
much.
I know that all of you here give so much and you try in your own
way to share the Light. I mean, there’s two ways to be the Light –
one is to be the candle and the other is the mirror that reflects the
candle.
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We live in an extraordinary time on Earth. I mean, absolutely
extraordinary. In the next several years, you’re all going to think
you’re living in a science fiction movie. You are living in a
science fiction movie, except it isn’t a movie, it’s reality.
If you want information on me, I think there’s some on the Web,
both pro and con.
I’m just going to get right into it. I’m going to give you some
updates and then we’re going to talk about some things that I was
specifically asked to speak to you about from Morenae.
Einstein said: You cannot solve the problems of the world with
the same thinking that created them, and that is no more relevant
than it is today. We have enormous problems, or challenges – I
should say: challenges – that take enormous amounts of
brainstorming and solutions.
The difficulty in trying to solve some of the issues that we have is
the fact that we do not have all the data. The two gentlemen that
were up here prior to, alluded to that. So did Robert Dean; Mr.
Green; Bill and Kerry have; so many of the speakers, as we keep
trying to go forth and gather all the information to try to solve
this out.
I, like many of the other speakers and each of you, have a small
piece of the puzzle. Now, we’re going to talk about some of that
today.
I know that there’s an awful lot of talk about Disclosure. I know
that in the Exopolitics community, there’s a great deal of talk
about Disclosure.
I personally don’t believe the United States government’s ever
going to admit it. It’ll probably come from another country, India
or China, first. Or the extraterrestrials themselves are going to
show themselves and just say: Hey, this charade’s gone on long
enough, which is probably the highest probability at this point.
We will talk about some of that today.
I had honed my presentation for an hour because that’s what I
thought I had, so in talking about solving the problems, at the
very top of our power structure, the planet Earth lives in a
pyramidal power structure.
Extraterrestrial civilizations no longer use that power structure –
the pyramidal power structure. They have been using a
holographic ever since the end of the Orion Wars -- which would
be in our linear time about 360,000 years ago.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Since then, most of the civilized, benevolent civilizations,
including some of the rogue regressive groups – and they are a
minority – have been using a holographic social structure, and
we’re going to talk about that today.
We’re also going to talk about creating a new Domain of
Knowing, a space in which we can create an opportunity for Earth
to be mentored, because we need some help here. We are a little
bit in over our heads. [laughter]
So, it takes me a little while to warm up here; I’m a little rusty.
[laughter]
As of the last several days, much of the Cassini project has been
classified. The reason for that is because of all the mother ship
activity that has now been filmed and documented in the
Saturnian system, around Saturn.
We also have, a million-and-a-half miles off of the South Pole, a
20-mile craft that has sat and is stationary. NASA and other
organizations’ telescopes have been monitoring it for eight
months. They watch its trajectory to us. It is now stationary and
there are craft going in and out of this 20-mile structure. I don’t
know any more about it than that.
I also want you to know that there is a very large planetary
structure coming in, 18 degrees right ascension of Neptune’s
orbit. It should be visible sometime in the next year.
There is an awful lot going on and, of course, you’re all paying
the bills and no one’s being told anything about it.
Now, it goes far deeper than spooking the herd. That is really not
the intention here at all.
The intention here, and what’s really been going on, is simply
this: Bob Dean made a reference yesterday to almost feeling
sorry for the government about the situation that they’re in. I
would have to concur with him on that, in the fact that the
government made some treaties, cut some deals for technology,
in exchange for experimentation and observation... and they were
tricked.
They really did not know what they were getting themselves into,
and now the hand has been dealt.
There are many people within the UFO community that say that
all the extraterrestrials are benevolent. Ladies and Gentlemen, it
is in my own personal opinion, and based on the knowledge that I
have, that that is completely irresponsible to say. [applause]
We live in a duality, because if it was all love and light, we
would not be going down this road to global fascism and the
Powers That Be wanting to eliminate two-thirds of the world’s
population. That is not love and light.
So, we have a lot of things to cover, and a lot of things are going
to be occurring.
The economic situation is what it is. Mr. Green gave a fantastic
presentation yesterday. There is absolutely nothing that I disagree
473
with him about. He made a reference to buying gold and silver. I
think that’s a really good idea. However, you cannot eat gold and
silver.
It is imperative that you start storing food and I will tell you
simply why. If they do crash the dollar, which they are going to
do in order to create a global currency and a global government,
you won’t be able to buy food. He made reference to the currency
being devalued six-to-one in the next several months. Gasoline
will go to $18, $20 a gallon. Truckers will not be able to deliver
products. What you have is what you’ll have.
It is imperative to, if you can, start forming within your
community, community gardens, figuring it out. You need to start
talking about this.
I know most people are simply not open to it. Just do the best you
can. I mean, we’re all fighting the fight.
Now, America is on the front line of this and the reason is simple.
America created a new Domain of Knowing. America was
created to get rid of the aristocracy of the Old World, to create
something new, to create individual liberties, to create personal
freedoms. That was never known in the world before.
We have that, and because of our apathy, we have lost virtually
all of those. It is no one else’s fault. It is our own fault.
We have known since The Sixties that the CIA has been
trafficking narcotics. We know this. We have known that the CIA
has been assassinating and overthrowing governments.
We have known that there’s been a cover-up of what there is on
the Moon and inside our Solar System. We know this. We know
that there is extraterrestrial life. We know this. That is no longer
the discussion. We know that the government has become
corrupt.
The people – the personages – that rule the planet are not us.
They are not human beings. And I will say this with my very last
breath: They are not us. [applause]
Now, what happened was that they took over because they think
holographically. It was very easy to get around the pyramidal
power structure on Earth because it’s completely obsolete
everywhere else out there.
So, if you come in using a holograph, using holographic thinking,
what you do is you create your structure everywhere so no matter
what happens, whether one group gets taken out, another group
gets taken out, is gone -- the other components are still there to
rise up and still manage and control, because each of these
components have a picture of the whole.
They have all the technology and everything they need to
continue to control and dominate and brainwash. We’re over our
heads here, but we’re not alone.
Now, what happened was they took over. It was very easy to take
over the governments: You dangle technology, you dangle
knowledge, you dangle ancient history, and you give them this
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
technology in secret. You have it. We’re going to give it to you.
The United States of America made this mistake.
So, Bob Dean, again; Mr. Dean made a reference yesterday to the
missing trillions of dollars from the Federal Reserve. I have been
told it’s $24 trillion dollars, is what they carry on their books, and
virtually most of that has gone into the secret space program and
the colonization of our Solar System.
You can choose to believe that or not. It doesn’t matter and it
doesn’t change the reality of it.
So, what happened was, the pirates took over the ship. The
governments, realizing that they had all this technology and that
they were a thousand years more advanced than we were, instead
of telling everyone: Hey, we have a problem here, and standing
tall and doing the right thing, they joined the pirates.
We are literally only now, as passengers on the ship, finding out
and realizing that we’ve been hijacked. That’s the movement.
And many people are going to have a very difficult time when
they realize that reality is not at all what they think it is or what
they thought it was. Even those of us who have been exposed to
this for many, many years have “Oh shit!” moments. [laughter]
It’s impossible not to, you know?
Yes, our politicians sold out. It was easy to corrupt them. [sighs]
We have an enormous mess. They’re stuck in the middle as well.
Over the next year, year and a half, there’re going to be so many
changes. America is the focal point here of this and the reason for
that is because Americans, despite our educational system, are
still very smart. We are very able to think out of the box. We are
excellent problem-solvers and we are armed to the teeth. They
constantly will have to be looking over their shoulder unless they
take us out.
Ladies and Gentlemen, that’s the goal. They cannot have a World
Government without taking out the U.S. – and I mean taking it to
its knees.
Now, this is not where the whole presentation is going, but it’s
important to give you this background because the world used to
look to us for the ideals of freedom. Immigrants all over the
world have come to America. My grandparents were immigrants
to this country, because they believed in individual liberties.
They believed in freedom. They believed in the principles that
were in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and
the Bill of Rights.
Ladies and Gentlemen, that is who we are. We are not the crap
that they show you on television. [applause]
Gentlemen, you are not the weak-kneed, sissy morons they try to
portray us on television, either. You are strong; you are family-
oriented; you have faith, and you are warriors. And you’re going
to need to take a stand and defend your country and your family.
Make no mistake about it.
The two gentlemen that were here talking about the Super
Soldiers? Yeah. They’re here. They’re definitely here. They’re
hybrids. They’re here, and there’s more that’s been going on.
474
I was hoping that one of them would talk about what happened in
Dulce, New Mexico, but they did not. And I don’t necessarily
want to go there either because... [sighs] ... Oh, God, it’s sick. It’s
sick. [audience response, questions]
Now I... There’s other things to cover, but I bring it up because
many people that have the knowledge, that have been in Black
Ops, Special Ops, that have been involved in the ET component,
know about that small rogue group – and they’re not gone yet.
Some of them are still here. All right? And they still create and
wreak havoc. I also want to tell you – and I have been asked to
share this with you – about the vaccine, the new swine flu
vaccine. Morenae has told me to tell you or everyone that this
vaccine will permanently damage your DNA. So, whatever else
comes out of that, it will permanently damage your DNA.
[applause]
Now, many of us in the community and in the world as a whole,
we can’t even agree on what the problem is and because of that,
we will never even agree on a solution. So it’s imperative that
open dialogue continue to occur.
I know that for those who have been in the Exopolitics – that’s
what I’m basically calling the UFO community, Exopolitics, now
– you have had a remarkable amount of patience. And your
biggest tests are coming, because as more and more of this
information comes out, more and more people are going to want
to ask you, who they thought were crazy: What the hell’s going
on?
They’re going to want to know. And you’re going to have to try,
in a very calm manner, explain it to them even though you
yourselves are going to have all the butterflies – you’re going to
be wondering: How the hell am I even going to deal with this? –
Because you have some background information.
Now, this ET component is really about us. It is our destiny to
travel the stars. It is our destiny to continue to move out and
colonize space, especially our own Solar System. It is not our
destiny to be killed by vaccines and war.
You will have to make those choices. My choices are already
made. My decisions are clear. I am the father of five children.
There is no way I’m going to back down and I’m going to sell
them into slavery. Never going to happen! [applause] Okay? You
need to make your own choices.
Okay. I once asked Vissaeus, one of the Andromedans who has
since crossed over, what was to become of us. (Some of this may
be a review for some of you.) What was to become of us? What
was going to happen to our race, to our civilization?
He just looked at me and he said: This is how we see you:
Responsible, freedom of self-determination, becoming truly self-
confident and free, to unconditionally be responsible for oneself
without being coerced to accept some higher authority.
In our Galaxy, [as] the more advanced the civilizations have
become in the center of the Galaxy, the riffraff had to start
moving out to the outskirts of the galaxy. The riffraff – just like
Star Wars, okay? We are in the boonies and that’s why we have
some riffraff here. We’re not the only planetary race that is
having problems with the riffraff.
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But what’s unique about us is that, genetically, we are considered
-- to the Andromedan race – [to be] genetic royalty.
I have been saying this since day one: We are extremely unique
and it’s because of that uniqueness, we have enormous strength.
We have enormous capacity for emotions. We have enormous
intent and drive to not only survive, but to create. What we lack
is faith in ourselves.
At the end of World War II... Well, let me put it another way:
The Nazis didn’t lose the war. Okay? Germany lost the war, but
the Nazis were brought here and to Russia.
Now, the mind technology, the mind control, the space
technology, the reverse engineering, the technology that they had
been given prior to the war by a small group of extraterrestrials
from the star system of Aldebaran, was brought here and honed
and polished and combined with other technology that the Zeta
Twos [Zeta Reticuli 2], the Dows [Ed note: spelling of “Dows” is
uncertain; googled and found nothing.] -- what many folks know
as the Grays – all those began to compliment each other;
remarkable technology.
Technology we absolutely need here. I mean, the combustion
engine has been obsolete for 70 years. I understand that India also
is now going to experiment on wireless electricity. Hell, Tesla did
that in 1902 in Colorado Springs. We know it works. Okay? But
those that were funding his experiment asked him: Where’s the
meter? And he says: Well, there is none. It’s free. They shut it
down.
The question is... well, we’ll get to that. I’m sorry. I’m jumping
around here.
The reality is, Ladies and Gentlemen, what kind of country do
you want to live in? What kind of world do you want to live in?
Clearly what we’re doing now doesn’t work – it has run its
course.
We have a government that has a lot of problems. We have
corruption within it... not all of it, but we clearly have corruption
within it. They have sold out and have been totally compromised.
They themselves don’t know what to do and their only solution is
to turn the power of the military and the power of the
pharmaceutical companies against the American people. That’s
their solution.
That is not okay. That’s not okay!
It’s time for the UFO, the Exopolitics community, to start
creating another Domain of Knowing, and that Domain of
Knowing is two things: What does a holographic social structure
look like? How can we live with a holographic social structure,
mirrored after some of the principles that our Founding Fathers
laid, but it wasn’t perfect?
What could we do now? And we’re not just talking about the
United States. This has to be a global thing; this has to be a
global movement. What does that look like?
So we need to create and start groups, dialogues, talking about
living in a holographic structure where all the information that is
475
available – Black Op, Secret, Top Secret, Above Top Secret – is
available to everyone.
We could just start with the information that we do have; the rest
of it will come. It’s going to collapse on itself because it’s no
good. It cannot stand on its own. The minute we turn our focus
away from them and they can’t feed off our fear, it will collapse
in a heartbeat. Because where focus goes, energy flows.
As long as they keep you looking at it, they are using the energy
of your soul, of your spirit, to feed this monstrosity. It’s time to
just ignore them. Turn your focus away and let’s create what we
really, really want – but we have to decide what that is.
Along with that, I have been asked to start asking people to talk
to people – you’re the first to hear this – about what would it look
like for you, for Earth, and we’ll start with the Exopolitics
community. What would it look like for you to be mentored by
several benevolent extraterrestrial races? What would that look
like?
What would we need to do to establish, not only that
communication, but at the same time have us feel safe, with
checks and balances, so that they could walk their talk and we
have to walk our talk?
Open mentorship is our destiny. It’s going to happen anyway, but
we cannot wait for the government to turn itself around. It can’t
because it’s not in control. Right? It is not in control. So, we have
to turn our focus away from all that drama and figure out another
way.
What I want to do now is read to you what I was given way-back-
when regarding creating a Domain of Knowing. This also came
from Vissaeus:
Create another Domain of Knowing, communicating, and being.
In other words, the domain of calling forth or generating your
intent needs to be more distinct.
Your physics, as you call it, is a good example of this calling-
forth. There have been men on your planet who have called forth
new domains of thinking that never existed before here.
They invented it. They didn’t fantasize it, they didn’t pretend.
They literally created this new context from what you now call
physics.
Your humanity is strong with this kind of example. No being,
however, makes the distinction that this is what they are.
I would like to give you an example: your concept of human
rights. It wasn’t so long ago that no such thing existed on your
planet. It just simply didn’t exist. You Terrans did not have any
rights. Only the kings and the priests had their rights, but most of
you Terrans do not have any rights. So you and other Terrans
created human rights from nothing.
You created the domain that created not only the rights to come
forth, you created the language and then you communicated it,
and this communication that you gave had power because it was
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full of intent. It has the power not only to represent and to invoke,
but also to literally bring it into being.
This is what your races need to do in order to clearly know
yourselves.
Now, in talking about that, let’s talk about religions for a
moment. The pyramidal structure of our governments primarily
have come out of ancient Rome, and Rome was essentially
controlled by 13 families. Those 13 families still exist today.
Many of the world’s religions, though they’ve had a tremendous
amount of value and have brought an enormous amount of
comfort to many people in our history and in our present day,
they focus on shame, guilt, sin, and control.
Ladies and Gentlemen, that’s the trap. They don’t focus on self-
responsibility. They don’t focus on life or respect. They, in fact,
create more division than we have ever known.
Now, did they start out that way? With the exception of the
Roman Catholic Church – I’m just going to be blunt about it –
no. But the Powers That Be are masters of infiltrating
movements. What they do... and I’ll give you the best example I
can give you is that of a charitable foundation.
A foundation is created using the power of the people and the
monies, the resources of the people, to do something that is of a
benefit to humanity. As it’s moving and it begins to gain power
and it starts to spread and shift consciousness, awareness, the
Powers That Be will walk in and say: Hey, we really believe in
what you’re doing and we’re going to give you a 25-million-
dollar grant to help you continue to do your work. But we want to
put one of our members on the Board, just to make sure that the
money is spent wisely.
Then they do it again, and now you have a second Board
member. And now you have a third Board member, and before
you know it, that movement, that foundation, instead of going up
and creating more consciousness, more awareness, is now
heading the other way. Now they also control the wealth of that
foundation.
We have been thinking in a pyramidal structure and a third
density structure. They’re in fourth density and holographic. We
have to think the same way and we have to be talking about: How
is it that we got ourselves into this?
It’s essential that we put blame to the side for the moment.
There’s plenty of that and there will be plenty of that.
What we need is the knowledge. We need to know how these
structures work, so that we can create something different,
something in total opposition to it, because I can’t imagine
everybody’s happy with the way things are.
And this isn’t just about the United States. This is about the
global population because the extraterrestrial races don’t see us
as separate countries. They see us as one race, and we’re all
between a rock and a hard place, pretty much – at the moment.
476
Taking personal responsibility is huge, but it really is the first and
the biggest step to achieving full consciousness.
I’m going to read you a quote that I found. It’s from a gentleman
named Little Hawk. He’s a Native American Indian with the
Mohawk tribe: Take credit for your mistakes, not what you do
good -- because you’re supposed to be doing good anyway.
We’ve all made mistakes; we’ve all screwed up, but that’s part of
the learning process. If you had all knowledge and you were all-
seeing, you wouldn’t need to be here. So collectively and
individually, we need to start looking at the world and saying:
What has my contribution been?
Now, I’m not talking about going out and trying to save the
world. It’s not about that at all. It’s really about each one of us
individually. It’s about being the Light. It’s about not feeling
shame for our mistakes. It’s about absolutely learning that you
are not a sinner. That is such crap that I want to vomit every time
I hear that.
You are not a sinner! You are a spiritual being in a physical
body, or as George Green said, Rent-a-Wreck. I liked that. That
was really cute. Okay? [applause]
Now, look at the structure that is overlaying us: Governments of
control and dominance; a monetary system that controls
everything. Corporations and banks that own the debt of every
nation, which means literally they’re in control, because they
have the debt. We have medical and pharmaceutical companies
who have had cures for cancer and other diseases that now want
to damage your DNA with untested vaccinations.
Imagine how afraid they are of you! Can you just for a moment
imagine how afraid of you they are? And now you’ve got to ask
yourself the question: Why are they afraid of you?
Because we are awesome, awesome Creator-Gods. We have the
ability to create reality, to bring it forth, to call it forth, and they
have done everything they can to continue to make sure that we
believe we’re powerless.
This is why so many extraterrestrial races are coming here now --
because they know different. On some level, Ladies and
Gentlemen, we consciously have called forth this drama. This is
really about us. We have called this forth. This is really about us.
It’s not about them. And we need to step into our power here. We
need to fully understand it’s time for us to step into our power as
a planetary race, and not see the borders anymore.
Now, I would not be that opposed to a global government if it
was set up with a constitution like the U.S. Constitution and an
Absolute Bill of Rights. But even then, that’s not a guarantee,
because if people don’t defend those rights, if people don’t
defend their liberties, what good is it?
We’ve just experienced that. Okay? We’ve just experienced that.
In 1913, when the Federal Reserve took over, that’s when the
train started going the other way, and here we are a hundred
trillion dollars in debt – an absolutely ridiculous number. It’s
probably higher. Who knows?
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Now, in creating our holographic model of a civilization or a
social structure, do we want to have a monetary system? Do we
actually need a monetary system? Because we’re the only ones
that I’m aware of in our Galaxy that still use a monetary system.
In fact, many, many years ago I had been asked by Morenae,
Vissaeus to put together a short presentation on money. They
already knew about it, but I did the best that I could.
When it was over, Vissaeus just looked at me and he goes: I don’t
understand.
And I said: What do you don’t understand?
He says: I don’t understand why you have to pay to live on a
planet you were born on. [laughs]
Ladies and Gentlemen, that has haunted me ever since. That little
bit, just that one little thing, takes you completely out of the box.
For the first time you begin to think: Well jeez, what would it look
like not to have a currency? You know?
Advanced civilizations: all their needs are taken care of. All of
their standard day-to-day life needs are met by the government,
no strings attached, and then you donate your time and your
expertise and your skills to do something you want that benefits
the whole. I’m not talking about communism, either. It’s
something bigger than that, but we need some help in defining
what that is.
Now, we have a lot of really brilliant, intelligent people here;
here and in the world. I know other people around the world have
been talking about similar things. Creating a different society,
and maybe even a holographic society, and what that looks like, a
holographic power structure, so no matter what happens, it will
totally always stand on its own.
The Founding Fathers tried to do something like this when they
created all the states as equal, in control, and separate from the
government. That was pretty much their intent whether they
realized it or not.
I also want you to know that we have a lot of help. We are getting
a lot of help from the spiritual side as well as the dimensional
side – and I’m not talking about just dimensional beings. I am
talking about, also, extraterrestrials.
I’ll give you an example of what I’m talking about: The vision at
Valley Forge of George Washington. I know that a lot of people
on the Net... if you’ve not researched it, I suggest that you do.
Some say it’s a hoax. It’s not a hoax.
I also want you to know that Thomas Jefferson in his dairies, was
out walking at his estate in Monticello, was trying to figure out
the verbiage, the language, in regards to the Declaration of
Independence when he was met by a hooded man, who he never
really clearly saw, who gave him the conversation and the pieces
that he needed to finish the Declaration of Independence.
I also want you to know that in the Constitutional hall, when
everybody was bantering and going back and forth and it looked
like no one was going to sign the Declaration of Independence,
477
up on the top railing of the hall a man appeared out of nowhere,
and for 20 minutes, gave an oration about how important this was
– not only to the United States and to the moment – but to the
entire world as a whole. As soon as he was done, everybody
rushed to the table and signed the Declaration of Independence.
Benjamin Franklin and the Sergeant-at-Arms went upstairs to try
to talk to this man because they wanted to know who he was.
There were armed guards at every single door. The armed guards
swore no one went in, no one went out.
So, there is Divine providence here, Ladies and Gentlemen. It is
not a mistake that you live in this country. It is not a mistake that
you are who you are.
Enough is enough! It is time we step into our power, and very
simple steps will do this. First you have to make a decision and
the decision is: No more bullshit. Okay? No more bullshit!
[applause]
America is the reason it is, because we allowed it to happen by
our apathy. Okay? We have elections. We know we’re voting for
the lesser of two evils. We know that, but we do it anyway.
I also want you to know that the President of the United States is
not in charge of our government. [laughter] He’s just not. I want
you to know that there are 47 layers of Top Secret clearances
above the President of the United States. Forty-seven layers!
You want to know your secret government? That’s your secret
government. He can’t even get a clearance. He doesn’t even
know who to talk to, to get a clearance to find out about this stuff.
So, it is important that we turn our focus a little bit and we start
creating something different. This is what the founders did. This
is what many people have done throughout the world. The
Renaissance was something exactly like this. They threw off
Rome and they tried to do something different – Rome, the
church, the government of Rome -- they threw it off and they
tried to create something different, and it went for a while.
Mentoring: The conversation in the Exopolitics community, in
my personal opinion, is no longer Do UFOs exist? It’s
completely irrelevant. We already know they do.
Where do they come from? That has some validity. Is it metal?
That doesn’t have any validity; it doesn’t matter. What matters is:
Why are they here? And what can we do to learn from this
experience?
Now, the reason that many of the extraterrestrial groups –
benevolent – are not talking to the government is because they
know they’re compromised.
I will tell you that there has begun some mentoring, off-world, of
our military. Off-world. It has begun, but that is such a small
piece. What really needs to happen is we need to create a new
Domain of Knowing and we need to call this information directly
to ourselves. No more middle-men. They can’t be trusted. We
have to do it ourselves.
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Now, how do we go about that? I don’t have all those pieces. The
idea was to share it and plant the seed inside of all of you to start
thinking about: What does mentoring look like?
How would you imagine extraterrestrials coming down and
saying: Okay folks, you have pollution. We can help you with
that, but these are the steps you need to do. Here’s the technology
that already exists on your planet to do this, and here is how you
need to use it responsibly.
Again, self-responsibility.
Food, the growing of food; water… Ladies and Gentlemen, we
have the technology to have all the drinking water we want – just
build desalination plants. We have all the water we need. But
they won’t spend a dime on any of that, because if you don’t have
water, they have control over you.
We have so much technology. We have free energy on the Earth.
Tesla did it in 1902. We know it exists. Okay?
A hydrogen engine in a car was built in 1955 and did 110 laps at
the Indianapolis 500 Race Track. The plans were bought by Gulf-
Western Oil and never seen from again. That’s 1955. [laughs]
There’s just so much! There’s so much.
The Law of Consistency, which is what the Andromedans call
their holographic civilization, is set up like this:
Every child, whether they understand the knowledge or not, is
given the latest and greatest technology or knowledge,
information, data, as it arrives. It starts at the youngest level. It
doesn’t start at the top and stay there and then they decide: Well,
we’ll wait till they’re 25 to tell them about it.
It is not the same song. We need the children to evolve to
advanced maturity a lot faster than they are. Yes, they’re growing
up pretty fast, but not to advanced maturity.
Every single piece of information, every single tool that is
available, is available to everyone, across the board. The children
that graduate from school in the Andromedan civilization are
smarter than their parents and no one has a problem with that,
because they inherit the society. They’re the ones that continue to
go out and expand the society and create the holographic pillars
of their society.
We are completely going backwards here, and if that isn’t evident
to everyone, I don’t know what is.
The Law of Consistency is that every truth is spoken, everyone is
forgiven, there is no monetary system. There is an absolutely free
healthcare system, but it has nothing to do with pharmaceuticals.
[applause] It has to do with color, light, and sound, which is what
we are, even in our physicality: color, light, and sound.
It has to do with the advancement of the soul. We have a
damaged DNA structure, so when we reincarnate, we do not
always remember things. There are people who do great jobs
doing past life regression and people can pull some of those
pieces. But to have cognizant memory when you come back into
478
physicality is something we don’t have presently. They have that
because they don’t have a damaged DNA structure.
Can our DNA structures be repaired? According to them,
absolutely yes, but we need to make some changes.
We need to create the space for us to be free enough to explore
those possibilities. We cannot do that with the power structure
that’s in existence today, so we need to create another Domain of
Knowing, and that begins with yourselves.
The love that you withhold is the pain that you carry lifetime
after lifetime. It all begins with us, each one of us individually.
Now, Ladies and Gentlemen, if we work, start thinking, start
talking about a mentoring relationship, what that looks like. How
would we want to put it together? Even go so far as to say: Okay,
here’s where we want to do this. Here’s how we want to do it.
Who do we want present? Do we televise it to the masses?
Everything, every detail. They absolutely will meet us halfway.
They are not going to come in here and save us or rescue us from
ourselves. They’re not going to do it.
If any of you are familiar with the Andromedan information, one
of the things that was first shared with me when I became an
adult was that in our Galaxy, tyranny showed up very
unexpectedly. And them, and other races that are part of the
Andromedan Council, have come back in time to this moment on
our planet and the other star systems that are having problems
with the pirates, to this time period.
This shift in consciousness here is what flips it either way.
They’re going to intervene and they have been intervening in
very, very subtle ways, because no one wants to live in tyranny,
not now or in the future. No one does.
So this is our moment. This is our moment as a humanity, as a
race, to really decide: Are or are we not going to unite as one?
Are we or are we not going to watch each others’ back? Are we
or are we not going to stop taking crap from bureaucracy?
We have to make a decision and that decision is upon you, and
you’re going to be forced very, very soon to make a decision.
And I’m, you know, I’m not just talking to you folks here in the
audience. I know that this is being streamed and I know that these
DVDs and things have a life of their own. I know that better than
anybody.
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The time is now and all it does, it starts with you, just to make a
decision – okay? – to do something, to be radical, to be a rebel
again.
Most of us guys in this audience, we know what that’s like, being
a rebel. We grew up shooting guns, chewing toast into the shape
of a pistol. Okay? Rescuing the damsel, excited about the next
adventure -- we know about that, you know? That’s part of who
we are. We are not domesticated lap dogs. We’re just not. And
I’m not going to be!
I’m not talking about going out and causing crimes. I’m talking
about defending yourself, your liberties, your rights, your family
and your community. Because nobody else is going to do it for
you. In fact, they’re all working against us, and even they don’t
realize what they’re doing – they really don’t. Because so much
information is compartmentalized, they don’t realize the big
picture.
But many people are waking up very, very quickly, and I know
I’m preaching to the choir in that. But it’s amazing to see how
many people are waking up and questioning everything.
This is our moment. The next several years is our moment and it
really needs to begin now. 2012 is not the end of the world – isn’t
going to happen. It’s not our destiny.
However, the Earth will be going through some transitions
because we will be crossing the galactic plane and the galactic
plane has an intense magnetic gravitational field. There will be
changes. It’s inevitable. Mr. Green touched on some of that
yesterday and others have talked about this as well.
It’s going to happen, so you need to start thinking about: Where
do I really want to be? Okay, if it’s here, fine, make the best of it,
but create your space of independence. Don’t take it for granted
any longer. We can’t.
The whole world is looking at us. The Asians, the Europeans --
they can’t believe how stupid we are. [laughter] Gospel! They
can’t believe how stupid we are! They're like: What’s wrong with
the Americans? You know?
I don’t have an answer. Do you? [inaudible audience comment]
You watch TV! [laughs].
What I’d like to do, because I do have some extra time, is I would
really love to entertain some questions, if that’s all right.
[applause] Easy ones! [laughs]
KC: Okay. Thank you, Alex. This is excellent, and I want to
address the mentoring suggestion because I think it’s actually
fascinating. I think that this is coming directly from the
Andromedans that you’ve been in contact with.
AC: Yes, it is.
KC: Mentoring is an interesting way of putting it. Okay? If you
mentor somebody, you do not rule them. You do not tell them
what to do. That’s key.
479
Nobody here’s even suggested this; I think it’s fascinating. So
what we have here is the notion that you can be in contact with
beings that can help teach you. Now, this is going on. This is
going on. I’m aware of it. Camelot is aware of it. By God, we
wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for that.
There is mentoring going on, but you do have to ask for that to
happen, and you have to be as fully conscious in the process and
as responsible and have that ability. You cannot sit there and ask
them to do for you. It’s not what it’s about.
So I would love it if you would talk about that because you
obviously have been mentored, so who better to teach us: What
does that look like? How is the interaction with you?
Just describe... and I know you have maybe talked to some
degree. But in your interactions, if you could discuss some of the
ways they have mentored you to this point.
AC: Okay. Know that my mentoring has gone on with times that
I have literally been kicking and screaming. The biggest portion
of the mentoring has really been: Why do I believe things and
what it is that I believe?
So a lot of times the question will come; I will ask a question or I
will have a perspective and they will immediately come back and
say: Well, why do you believe that? What is your process of
believing that that’s true?
For example, religions. It was one of the biggest things that I had
when I was a kid, and it was an issue that my father brought up to
me as well when I told him about this.
We have formed perceptions of reality that are not based in
reality. They’re only based on perception.
Now, in accepting that perception as reality, what we do is we
reinforce that illusion. And that’s what we have done on Earth, is
we have reinforced the illusion about who we are. About our
strengths, about our power, about how we’re supposed to live on
the Earth. About being stuck on the Earth, about how we are
supposed to raise our children. We have all bought into these
perceptions.
The hardest things were to really look at myself, and this is really
where the work is – it’s always with yourself. The most difficult
work has probably been, for me, in the last five, six, seven years.
Questions like: Well, who am I? They don’t answer it. They don’t
say: Well, you’re this and this and this, but what they do is they
will guide. They have guided me to who it is that I want to be.
First was understanding that you are not just a physicality. That’s
the first thing to grasp – you are not a physicality.
And just like some of the speakers said yesterday – I believe it
was Mr. Green who talked about: there is a soul and it’s 22
grams. I think they've measured that in body weight. That is
really who you are and connecting to who that person really is,
what that essence is all about, you begin to realize: Oh my God, I
am not at all who I thought I was.
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I’m purposely being vague because I don’t necessarily want to
tell you who I am other than to say that who I am here on Earth in
this lifetime, and the mistakes that I have made, on some level I
knew better not to make those mistakes. Okay? But we do. We
do. We experiment. We create.
As far as the meaning of life, they would never tell me what that
was exactly. All they would say is: You are creating your own
adventure. So again, the responsibility is on me.
As far as mentoring – to want to talk and to speak – the idea was
to just keep it very, very simple. To just share their perspectives
and let the people do whatever they wanted with it. And it
doesn’t matter whether anyone believes it or not. People know
truth, people know bullshit. Eventually it all comes to the surface;
it has to.
Because all of you are just like me; you all know better, you
know what’s real. It’s just a question of detaching ourselves from
our addiction to physicality. And that’s what it is now – it’s
become an addiction because the focus is on the physicality.
We’re not objective anymore.
As a soul, when you have an out-of-body experience and you
detach from your physical form, you are completely objective.
You have a 360-degree peripheral view and that’s because you’re
objective. You’re not addicted. You’re not stuck in the body or
addicted to the body.
That’s the part that they have been working on with me the most,
is to actually feel and know that essence of myself as much as
possible.
So, when we talk about mentoring, the mentoring is to get us
from where we are here to self-empowerment. That’s what I’m
talking about.
Once we have achieved self empowerment – and it won’t take
long folks; it really won’t take long – we will know exactly what
to do, because we are spiritual beings. We are eternal; there is no
age to us. And that’s not a metaphysical blind. That is a reality.
So, the mentoring is to help us move out of our addiction to
physicality into full power as spiritual beings. And it isn’t full of
dogma; it isn’t any of that. It’s all about introspection, voluntary
introspection. That’s what it is.
KC: Thank you. Thank you.
AUDIENCE MEMBER #1 (AM1): Hi, Mr. Collier. Thanks for
being here today. I wanted to ask you something about something
you mentioned in your interview before. You mentioned that an
ancient race called the Paa Tal created human beings, probably
so long ago; I wondered if you could just elaborate on that,
because I always wondered about it ever since you said it.
Thanks.
AC: It is believed that an ancient race – some of them call them
The Founders, other cultures call them the Paa Tal – created not
only the wormholes, but created most of the physicality in what
we know as our universe. Because, as they travel, they are
finding civilizations and the ruins of civilizations far beyond
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anything that even they know... and we’re talking fifth, sixth,
seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth-density space travelers who are
traveling not only in, and moving in, our physicality and other
physicalities, but even their own.
The wormholes is the best example that I’ve been given. No one,
no advanced space race has any idea how they were actually
built, but we know that they exist. In fact, there are several that
have snapped, connecting our Galaxy to some of the other nearby
Galaxies. They’ve snapped and no one knows how to fix them
because we don’t even know how they were built.
AM #2 (DAN): I’m Dan Bender, the one who’s still working on
the streaming. I was asked by the streaming audience, which is
now up to 1,500 members currently watching – and I think we’ve
probably have over 10,000 that tuned in on this particular
segment. [applause] Thank you. I’ve kind of picked three quick
questions... hopefully, they’re quick, that I was asked to pass on.
They’re randomly chosen, so they may not be the best ones
we’ve got out there, but what the heck?
One of the first ones was: What free energy devices do you know
about?
AC: One I know is magnetic. Essentially, it was invented by a
gentleman in Tennessee. It was just a bit larger than a shoebox
and it was generated by magnetics. It had an engine inside of it
and it spun. Once you started it, it would power a home
completely independent, no matter where it was.
I understand that the gentleman and the technology vanished
about eight years ago. He tried to get a patent on it and that’s
when he basically went off the grid. He actually demonstrated
that technology and he began building that technology back in
1976.
DAN: The second question I have is: Can mentoring happen on
the Internet?
Now, I have to admit, I wasn’t completely paying attention to
everything because I was so busy with everything on the Internet,
but that’s the question I have.
AC: I don’t know. That’s a great question. I don’t know. I
wouldn’t see why not.
DAN: Okay. I guess we have to figure it out – one of my little
side jobs I’ve got to do. [laughter] Last question I have here so I
can let some of the other folks get back in here: How do you deal
with the greed issue?
AC: I don’t have an answer for that.
DAN: Okay.
AC: I mean, what is greed? That they’ll never have enough? It’s
basically grounded in fear, I would think. Fear of loss, fear of
abstinence, fear of not having enough, fear of loss. To me that’s
what greed is. It’s just a fear.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Can it become an addiction? Apparently it has. [laughter] But I
personally don’t have an answer for that.
DAN: Thank you from the Internet audience.
AC: Okay. Thank you. [applause]
AUDIENCE MEMBER #3 (AM3): You mentioned about
possible coming changes, like on a geological level. To me it
seems so chancy. I’d appreciate maybe your thoughts on: Do we
just trust our intuition as far as where to go, what to do, how to
plan for something like that, or...? It seems a rather daunting
thing to try to get your head around.
AC: Well, you know, change occurs all the time and you do
things intuitively all the time as well, whether you realize it or
not. You might change the way you go home one day and do
something different, and then when you get home, you find out
that right where you would have been, there was a horrific car
crash. That, in fact, just happened to my wife. She did something
completely out of the ordinary, for her, and she would have been
right there.
So, you know, everybody has their guides; everybody has their
own intuition. I’m not always the most intuitive at times, either.
The only way I know to answer this is you just learn to trust
yourself. It could be that you’ll be guided to go out of town when
something happens. I don’t have that answer. Or you will be right
where you don’t think you need to be, but you’re going to be
there for a very, very good reason, and out of it will come a self-
empowerment that you never would have had before.
We all have our own paths and we are all creating our own
realities. We all have our own personal agendas for learning and
growing and becoming who we are. Your experience is going to
be very different from mine. I don’t know how, you know, to tell
you.
I mean, hey, if I had a hard date? But I never do. I don’t get a
hard date and I’ve made that mistake in the past about giving
hard dates, when in fact, they were probabilities.
So the fact is, I don’t know either, but you just have to trust that
you will be exactly where you need to be when you need to be
there. And I know that’s kind of a foo-foo, la-di-dah answer, but
that’s my own experience as well, you know? That I just have to
pray and have faith that I’ll be exactly where I need to be.
AM3: I appreciate that. That’s pretty much my take on it and I
just wanted to kind of see where your thoughts were on that.
Because to try to take it from a mental perspective, and plan, and
get out maps and... seems a little absurd to me. So I go in the
other direction, trusting in the flow of life. So I appreciate that
answer. Thank you.
AC: Exactly. And personally, I wrestle with that all the time. I try
to have backup plan to backup plan to backup plan to backup
plan, and I spend all this energy doing this and it goes in a
completely in a different direction. So... [laughs]
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AUDIENCE MEMBER #4 (AM4): How’re you doing? Thank
you for being here. I just have a question. When you mentioned
the thing about the 47 levels of government...
AC: Levels of security clearance.
AM4: Yeah, security, that the President doesn’t even know, that
he’s not really in charge. This happened 46 years ago, of course,
but I was just wondering what are your thoughts on the purpose
of President Kennedy’s assassination? I just was curious about
that, you know, just wondering.
AC: [audience response/inaudible comments] No, no. Don’t be
sorry! Don’t be sorry. I just... oooh man!
Okay. I will tell you my perspective on that. [takes deep breath]
Eisenhower told Kennedy about ’54 [Ed note: That’s when
Eisenhower met with ETs at Muroc AFB – now Edwards AFB –
and this was a key meeting of the negative ETs that misled the
US government, leading it down into the rabbit-hole trap that it
now finds itself in, being unable, so far, to proceed forward with
the ET/UFO Disclosure.], so Kennedy knew and he told Bobby,
obviously.
One of the things that happened – and this has been documented
through the great work that Dr. Steven Greer has done with the
Disclosure Project – is that most of the extraterrestrial knowledge
and technology and exchange of technology went black three
weeks after Eisenhower knew about it. So he didn’t even know
where it was, and this has been confirmed by one of his Chief of
Staff, Brigadier General Langdon, I believe it is.
[Ed note: Sherman Adams was Eisenhower’s Chief of Staff; a
search of the military’s Joint Chiefs of Staff proved fruitless for
“Brigadier General Langdon.”]
So, he shared all this with John Kennedy and apparently where
they felt the hub of the loss of where this technology had gone,
and how far it went black, was something called the Special
Operations Coordinating Group, which was part of the National
Security Council.
What‘s interesting to note is that the first thing John Kennedy did
when he took office was sign a presidential directive abolishing
the Special Operations Coordinating Group.
Now, no one knows exactly who they are, but they’re not only
connected to the intelligence, but also to all the black programs,
to the secret space program and everything else. There is some
conjecture that these people are the governors of the Federal
Reserve, because they control the money, and it’s really all about
the money. That’s conjecture though. I don’t know for a fact.
But, what’s interesting to note is that they had connections
everywhere, to everything, because all the intelligence from
above would come to them and then they would decide which
information the President was supposed to get. Again, those
layers of security clearances.
What’s interesting to note is: after the assassination, the very first
thing Johnson did when he got back into the White House was
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
recreate the Special Operations Coordinating Group, now known
as Special Group in the National Security Council.
That’s my take on it.
AM4: That’s awesome. But, that time during The Sixties... of
course, as you know, like four more -- are they all just, like, a
series of random events, or all they all different... like, you know,
King, and Bobby? Are they just all random occurrences of lone
nuts like James Earl Ray and all those guys, and Sirhan Sirhan, or
are they just a part of that whole thing?
AC: I think that there are programs that overlap all the actions
that occur in each country. Yes, there are some lone nuts or
individuals that do things, but there’s also, at the same time, an
overwhelming amount of evidence that many people have been
brainwashed and created to be hitters, to “go wet” and take out
people. So, I don’t know.
But again, you know, let’s go back to Operation Paperclip. A lot
of the brainwashing and mind control technology that the
Germans had been given was brought over here and they just
continued operating here under different names with new
passports. So it’s very a big... and I don’t know all the
components.
It’s a very big question, but on the surface, does it look like it was
done on purpose? I mean, look at the individuals, who they were.
They were making change. They were creating an awareness;
they were the focal point of a very powerful movement for
change, to make things happen for the betterment of everybody.
Okay?
Again, that is the pyramidal power structure. You lop off the
head – loss of knowledge; it flounders. Somebody can come in
and take control and move it the other way, then it doesn’t exist.
So... okay?
AUDIENCE MEMBER #5 (AM5): Hello, Sir. Thank you for
being here.
AC: You’re welcome.
AM5: First I wanted to thank you for bringing up a subject that I
feel is one of the most important things that we can talk about
here at this conference. As far as I can tell, you are the first
person to bring it up – it’s the monetary system, the economic
system that we predominantly use in this world.
My question is if you and/or the Andromedans have any insight
to offer as far as the transition that we’ll need in order to
transcend an economic system that posits us in a position of
feeling like we need to compete with each other in order to
survive, making us feel separated from each other instead of
being one.
AC: That’s a great question. And let me ask you this back: What
are your thoughts on it first? [laughter]
AM5: Obviously, you can tell by how I worded my question...
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AC: Mentoring is about self-empowerment, okay?
AM5: That’s right.
AC: What are your ideas on it first? You know, it’s great to ask
somebody for their advice when you don’t have a clue what you
want to do, but that can wrongly, or to your betterment, influence
you. But it’s better for you to have some idea about where you
stand and why you stand on a particular position or a reason to
make a change than to have somebody tell you why. [applause]
And that’s what they want. They want us to come half way.
AM5: I very much agree with that point, as a matter of fact, and I
do have a lot of my own opinions regarding how we can do it. I
just felt that it was an important subject to bring back up.
I feel that personally it goes back to something that you said
regarding the creation of something that doesn’t already exist in
the world and never has before. I feel that that’s what we need, in
the form of human interaction.
AC: We can do this. I mean, as souls when we’re not here on
Earth, we’ve been in other civilizations that don’t have a
monetary system. We have this knowledge within us. We do
know. We just don’t have access to it at the moment, but we do
know, all of us.
AUDIENCE MEMBER #6 (AM6): Thank you very much for
being here. I’m very inspired by your message.
AC: It’s an honor for me.
AM6: Thank you, and for us, too. My question to you is, you
spoke earlier about the whole thing of the Domain of Knowing
and, you know, the intention that we have together, and how at
one point there was not this whole human rights. So, how can we
come together as a group, collectively, in creating an intention for
the world that we want to see?
How can we... You know, all of us are asking: What can we do?
What can we all do to collectively share our intentions of the
world that we want to see, the world that we want to create?
They have their intention, but perhaps we need to collectively
have ours and align together about the world we envision. I’m
wondering if you have any advice or counsel or mentorship about
how we can unite in that way and gather our intentions to create
the world we know to be true in our hearts, we know is possible
for us to live in; that we remember.
AC: That’s the first step. Just talking with your friends, people of
like mind. Just creating that vortex of knowledge, of harmonic, of
frequency, and as you begin to talk more and more about it, your
group grows.
I’ll give you an example, the best example that comes to mind is:
in Colorado there were a group of women who were the wives of
soldiers over in Iraq.
What they did was, they formed something called the Kitchen
Militia – okay? – where they would all get together, not only
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share recipes and about rearing children, yadda, yadda, yadda,
and sharing information and letters about their spouses overseas,
but they would also start talking about different ideas.
Some incredible ideas came out of the Kitchen Militia. Several of
them even started companies of ideas that came out and now
they’re employing many of the people within the Kitchen Militia.
So, it’s very simple steps. And again, individually, this has to be
at grassroots. All it takes is a focus, a turn of our focus away from
the drama and the crap that they want us to focus on, on the news
and CNN, etcetera, and start thinking about: What is it that I
want?
What information do I want to know? What do I want to hear?
What information do I want to hear on the news? What kind of
neighborhood do I want to live in? What do I want to talk to my
friends about? What’s really important to me?
And Ladies and Gentlemen, back in 1993, I was telling
everybody to throw their televisions away. I really was. You
know, I told you so, okay? [laughter]
I mean, we have one and we just watch movies and we choose
which movies we want. I do have rabbit ears, so that I can watch
the election to find out who’s going to screw us for the next four
years [laughter] and that’s roughly it. And the Super Bowl, but
now I can get that online, so now I don’t even have to plug in the
rabbit ears.
So, you know... you guys know this stuff. You know this stuff.
You just have to want it, you just have to want it. You've got to
want it so bad that you’re willing to just do it and say: Enough is
enough!
You do that with your kids. You do that with your neighbors.
You do that with your bosses. Now you've got to do it about your
life.
What is it that you really want? Get some clear, distinct ideas
about what it is you really want. Because the system we have
now is crumbling and it’s going to continue to crumble. All the
illusion in the world is not going to keep it standing because it’s
run its course. It’s done.
483
So, we have to create something else. We have to, because if we
don’t, the Powers That Be will create it for us, and I guarantee
you, you will not be free. You won’t be free. You won’t like it at
all. [laughter] You won’t! It’s a given, an absolute given, because
it’s all about them. It’s not about you. And as Spock once said:
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Next question?
AUDIENCE MEMBER #7 (DAVE): Alex, my name is Dave
Farman. I represent ALIENSHIFT -- www.alienshift.com . The
page we made for you is between 200 and 250 pages. It’s one of
the most visited. ALIENSHIFT is about new hope for humanity
and you are one of the... we could call you the new hope for
humanity. I want to thank you for all the stuff you’ve done.
Basically my question is... I’m sorry. You want to say
something?
AC: It’s not about me. It’s not about me.
DAVE: It’s all about us, and the question I have is about us, the
public. Every UFOlogist, the past 30 years I’ve been watching,
they write books and videos and they go home. There is no unity;
there is no group that can... How can we create such a 40-man
international group that would have a leader like you, for
instance, or whoever else would want to take the position, and we
have our voice with the ET and with the people of the Earth?
[to the audience] You guys are all waiting for governments.
Don’t do that! Don’t do that. We are the governments between
humanity and the ET. Do not wait for any governments to help
you guys. [Alex initiates applause]
AUDIENCE MEMBER #8 (AM8): Hi. Thanks for coming today.
We all appreciate that. I guess a question I have is, I kind of have
a profound question, or somewhat profound, I guess, which is to
say that, on the one hand, I think that we all want to access
knowledge and we want to know what’s going on, and that’s
empowering.
On the other hand, it is also true that the more we know, to a
certain extent the more of a target we become. I think that that is
just because of the fact... especially the way that we’ve had a lot
of laws that have been passed throughout the world to monitor
what people are doing. I think we all have to be cognizant of that.
I’m asking, what do you think? How can we access...? We know
that there’s powers that are off-planet. We know that the major
self or the Higher Self is one of purity and strength. How do we
access that in the face of the fact that we do put ourselves – I
don’t know if it’s at risk – but that we put ourselves in somewhat
of a precarious position and that we’re facing a very, very
organized and very strong union across the planet.
And how do we get there? How do we empower ourselves? I
guess that’s what I want to ask.
AC: Okay. Let’s deal with the first of these. I want you to do me
a favor just for a moment. I want you to get down on your knees.
Give him the mike. Just get down on your knees. Okay? I want
you to get down on your knees. Yeah, just like that. Look at me. I
want you to look at me. Can you look at me?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
AM8: It’s not what I was expecting, but...
AC: Do you want to live the rest of your life like that?
AM8: No, not particularly. No.
AC: Okay, then stand up. [applause; whistles] Then stand up!
Dude, you’re [an] eternal soul. All they can do is take this [the
body] away from you and you still live. Okay? It’s not who we
are -- it’s what we are.
As far as forming an organization, it needs to be grassroots
because everything else that becomes a foundation or a
corporation, they take over. If it’s grassroots and everybody in
this audience and every citizen around the world – if we start
watching each others’ back, there isn’t jack that they can do to us.
[applause; shouts; whistles] There just isn’t.
AM8: I hear you. I hear you. Okay. That was dramatic. Thanks.
AUDIENCE MEMBER #9 (AM9): I got up because I wanted to
assert that we are the Ground Crew and that we are being
mentored, and find out if you disagree with that, that this is the
choir and that we are being mentored already whether we’ve been
tapped on the shoulder by someone from another part of the
Galaxy or not. That we should stop denying that we’re already
being mentored and we already are getting the message of what it
is that we need to do.
AC: Well, I think George said it best yesterday, Mr. Green: We
are extraterrestrials. You know? [laughs] We’re just trying to
reconnect to kin, basically. So yeah, you’re absolutely right. I
don’t have any problem with that.
My purpose for reiterating it is knowing that these things go
wherever they go and that there are so many people now coming
into this, discovering it for the first time or at least asking
questions, and it’s important to bring them on board as quickly as
possible. To just have them, to plant the seed.
Hey, on some level you are already being mentored, spiritually,
and we just need to bring the physicality and connect that to the
spiritual lessons of ourselves.
AM9: Thank you. Great.
AC: That was my purpose.
AUDIENCE MEMBER#10 (AM10): I was just wondering about
the nature of the incoming object.
AC: What was the question?
AM10: Sorry, I’m a little nervous here.
AC: Nobody will bite you. [laughter]
AM10: Yeah. You mentioned an incoming object, 22 degrees to
Uranus or something.
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AC: Eighteen degrees right ascension of Neptune’s orbit. All I
know is that it’s a planetary structure and it’s friendly. I don’t
know anything more about it at the moment, but I know it’s
friendly. Okay? It’s not Nibiru.
AUDIENCE MEMBER #11 (AM11): I have a question but as I
was standing there I had a realization. You were talking about the
holographic kind of system that they’ve put in place and that you
said that we need to implement that holographic system. When
you said we need to become grassroots, everything has to become
grassroots, I got it on an extreme level that, by continuing to
share passionately with absolutely everyone, that we are creating
the holographic system that they can’t destroy.
AC: That’s right. It’s impossible.
AM11: I really got it. Thank you.
AC: You’re very welcome.
AM11: My question is, you were mentioning that the Andromeda
have the DNA to be able to remember past lives and that our
DNA is damaged so we cannot. Do you know of ways in which
we can heal our DNA? And would accessing the blueprint of
perfect health and healing in our Higher Self be part of that?
AC: It’s a great question. I don’t have the answer to that.
AM11: Thank you.
AC: ...and I had to put my glasses on to see who I was talking to.
[laughs]
AUDIENCE MEMBER #12 (AM12): Okay, my take on the
grassroots thing, and tell me if I’m right, is that even if we’re not
out talking, if you’re doing your spiritual work and in your mind
you have a desire for a world that’s peaceful and pure and good
without the hatefulness and the fear, and you’re creating that, that
that’s the grassroots thing; that it doesn’t have to be an
organization.
AC: That’s exactly right.
AM12: Thank you.
AC: You got it. [applause]
Now, I wanted to bring up something. I’ve been blessed to have
an opportunity to spend some time in Europe, and I was in
Switzerland. We had just come out of a pub and there were some
young men being arrested for some reason – and I will never
forget this.
As we’re standing there watching this happen, one of the young
men said to the Swiss police: You didn’t read me my rights.
And the cop stopped and goes: What rights?
He goes: I got rights. You got to read me the Miranda Act. And
this was a Swiss student. Okay?
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And he goes: This is Switzerland. You don’t have any rights here.
Okay? But this young man believed so much in that that he was
willing to challenge the police officer about it – okay? – and it
was a big surprise for him.
So, you see, the influence that the United States has had on the
world is so [much] more profound than any of us realize and the
disappointment is probably equal to that at this point – okay? --
because here the propaganda has been communism, fascism. We
have sent young men to war, lost their lives to fight communism
and fascism, and in 60 years, we become fascist? What’s wrong
with this picture?
[to audience] Sir? Two more questions and then I’m done.
AUDIENCE MEMBER #13 (AM13): I wanted to preface this
question with just saying again, as I spoke with you in private;
it’s an honor and a privilege to have you here with us, and thank
you for speaking of what you know. I also wanted to say that I
don’t want this question to sound in any way hostile to anyone,
because it does come from the bottom of my heart [getting
emotional] and it’s something that has been bothering me for a
long time.
If we are to move forward and connect all the pieces of the
puzzle, and move forward into the holographic social structure
that you’re talking about, where the children know more than the
adults and where all information is given to the young, then why
is it that we still – even in Disclosure movements and with
courageous witness testimony coming forward, people speaking –
that there are still certain topics that people are afraid to or will
resist talking about, such as the stargates that was mentioned
earlier this morning, and other things?
AC: So, is your question, exactly, why there are still some topics
people don’t want to discuss?
AM13: Right. In people who are courageously stepping forward
and risking their lives to speak out about what they know, why is
it that they do not speak about everything that they do know and
there are still topics that they do not wish to speak about?
AC: Well, that’s a great question and I am also guilty of that. It’s
a comfort zone. It’s a comfort level and everything has its own
timing.
What would happen to humanity if the government were to come
clean about everything that they know about everything that they
know? Could humanity totally deal with it? Probably a portion of
humanity could deal with it.
The other portion, or portions, or groups, could not maybe deal
with it at least in the very beginning, because they have
constructed a reality around themselves that is based on
perception that is an illusion. To shatter that all in one fell swoop
can be a disservice to them.
The idea is to take people and give them the tools that they need
so that they voluntarily begin the process of self-responsibility
and voluntary introspection. The information is there and it’s
been out there for 50, 60 years.
485
We’ll take the UFO community as a whole, Exopolitics. More
and more people are coming into this. Who is the biggest group
now? It’s the young people, which is promising. They are in fact
influencing their parents by having discussions at home: What do
you think about this, what do you think about that? So it doesn’t
matter how it happens as long as it happens.
Now, I mentioned Dulce in our conversation earlier. There will
be people, I’m sure, who will contact these two [Ed. note:
referring to speakers Duncan O’Finioan and David Corso whose
presentations preceded this one.] to really want to talk about that,
and they’re going to have to be very careful about how they
present the information, because the things that happened there
are horrific – absolutely horrific – and they had to be dealt with
and they were dealt with.
However, that element that was behind those atrocities still exists
here. Okay? And even I don’t want to talk about that because it
involved women and children. And that’s as far as I’ll go.
But now that I’ve mentioned it, I’ve created a Domain of
Knowing, okay? I’ve just created a Domain of Knowing. Now
each of you will start going out, thinking about that, doing some
research to pull that information to you because now you want to
know.
AM13: Thank you very much.
AC: You’re welcome. Last two questions.
AUDIENCE MEMBER #14 (AM14): My question was actually
about children and the disappearance of children, if you’re
willing to talk about it.
AC: [sighs] I’ve said so much about that already. I know that I
have been blasted about that. Ladies and Gentlemen, I absolutely
know what I know about the missing children and I’m not going
to apologize for it. I stand by what I said all those years ago and I
stand by it today.
KC: Okay. Could you summarize? Because we’re aware of this
as well, so if you could just... in maybe one sentence?
AC: [sighs] ... [long pause, whispers “shit!”] ... We have become
a natural resource, very much how we use cows and other
animals. We ourselves have become a natural resource. The
younger ones are the most desirable because they’re not tainted
with chemical poisons in their bodies; because they’re young.
That’s all I’m going to say.
KC: Laura Knight-Jadczyk has gone into this in depth and Rich
Dolan has also written a review of her book that’s very positive
and Rich has... and Alfred Webre published an article about the
subject. So, if you want to investigate it further...
Because, actually, I just want to augment what Alex is saying
here in the sense that the point is not to give you everything out
on a platter – okay? – for you to understand what’s going on. The
point is to give you direction.
What Alex is doing here is mentoring you; he’s giving you
indications. And that’s what our whistleblowers do, by the way.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
They don’t tell you everything. They don’t even tell us Great Spirit, whose voice I hear in the winds
everything. But they give us the clues that we need to do the and whose breath gives life to all in the
research necessary to find out the truth. And when you hit the world, hear me!
truth, it gets you. You can tell. You know it.
I am small and I am weak and I need your
You want to be in denial, go right ahead. It’s out there. The truth strength and your wisdom.
is out there. It is unbelievably out there! [applause]
Let me walk in beauty and let my eyes ever
AUDIENCE MEMBER #15 (AM15): Hi, Alex. I’m the last behold the red and purple sunsets that you
question, obviously. My name is Andreas. Please don’t take this have created with me.
the wrong way, but I love you, man! [laughter; applause]
Make my hands respect the things that you
My actual question is actually directed to the audience and to have made and my ears sharp to hear your
you. I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind conducting a little words and your voice.
mini-meditation for all of us, to direct our intention to change the
future that we want to have. I was wondering if you would like to Let me learn the lessons that you have hidden
do that. Thank you. [applause] under every rock and leaf.

AC: Ooo... I’m on the spot! [laughs] Well, this’ll be a first. I seek strength, not to be greater than my
brother, but to fight my greatest enemy –
I have an affinity for very simple common-sense spirituality myself.
which has always lead me to the Native Americans. So what I
will do is, I will close this with a Native American prayer, and Make me always ready to come to you with
that just happens to be the same prayer that’s on the front page clean hands and straight eyes, so that when
here that I have with me. my life fades as the fading sunset, my spirit
can come to you without shame.
It’s usually always the prayer that I go to. I change the words and
make them my own after all these years, but for the purposes of Amen.
this, it says exactly what I would want to say.
Ladies and Gentlemen, it’s been an
absolute honor for me. Thank you so much.
[long applause; standing ovation]

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription
Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several
years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

486
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
Jordan Maxwell –
Building the Foundations Of Ancient Knowledge
Sept 20, 2009
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
Introduction: [starts in mid-sentence, Kerry Cassidy speaking]
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): …the trail of the truth for over forty
years. If anything, he’s probably the expert. He has spawned
most of the researchers you know such as Zecharia Sitchin and
David Icke and so on. He brought them to the public.
Jordan has not been credited in half the way that he should be
[applause] and I want to do that right here. [applause]
He’s given some of our lead researchers some information and
they’ve never credited him – okay? – so you may think it comes
from them and that they are so smart and brilliant. Believe me,
they wouldn’t be half the place they are today if it wasn’t for
Jordan Maxwell.
And so we really want to honor him here today and we’re very
proud to have him speak at a Project Camelot conference.
Presentation begins:
JORDAN MAXWELL (JM): Thank you. Thank you very much.
[applause/ whistles]
I think the one thing I’d like for you to take away from anything
that I say today is this one point: that nothing in this world works
the way you think it does. Nothing.
487
The police aren’t who you think they are; the sheriff is not who
you think he is; banks do not do what you think they do;
governments don’t operate anywhere near the way you think they
do, and that’s why today, when you look at what’s going on in
the world today, none of it makes any sense. It’s all crazy. It
makes no sense at all.
It seems very destructive, but actually in point of fact, you don’t
know how the system works. It’s working perfectly fine!
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer; the people, the
masses, are entertained with television and alcohol and drugs and
the wealthy continue to get wealthy. And so, it’s working
perfectly fine once you understand how the world really works
and nothing works the way you think it does.
My whole life I have been interested in theology and religion,
and that’s my real love. I’ve spent all of my awakened hours of
research throughout the country and throughout the world
studying theology and religion -- but not to learn from it, but to
learn about it.
It’s a fascinating story once you see how our religions came into
being. You begin to see things that you’ve never seen before and
begin to have questions that never occurred to you before.
So, that’s been my major love. But I also in the early ’80s, very
early ’80s, came into contact with some people who were
experts’ experts on government and banking, and I was in their
company for many years. I learned how governments work, and it
was absolutely astounding to me to see the real truth.
It’s taken me 48 years to get here tonight, but I’m going to give
you a secret that I’ve learned. I’m going to give this to you for
free.
This is a secret and it’s a very powerful secret: Financially, and
in every other way, people will always support what they want to
hear. They will not support what they don’t want to hear.
If you like country music, you’re not going to pay thirty bucks
for a rap concert. If you like a particular movie star, you’re not
going to go see somebody else. People will always... I mean if
you like a particular kind of food, you’re not going to the
opposite restaurant.
So people will always support what they want to hear. Anyone
who has traveled and dealt with the public, you will find that the
one thing that people, generally speaking, do not want to hear is
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
the truth. Nobody is happy when they have to be faced with the
truth.
There are some brave people, like maybe you here today, who are
at least open to hear something that may conflict with what you
believe or what you know, but at least you are truth-seekers.
That’s what I have always been, is a truth-seeker.
I always say I’m not the world’s foremost authority on anything,
because I’m at least smart enough to know how much I don’t
know, but when you begin to break down how government
works, banks work, you begin to see a whole world that you’ve
never known.
The word I use is occult. Occult simply means hidden, and this is
exactly what is going on in the world today. Our governments,
banks, institutions of education, etcetera, are operating on a
totally occult or hidden basis, and so what we are told and given
to understand is not the truth.
Let me give you an example. How many people have heard me
lecture or talk about the maritime system of commerce? Okay, so
most people at least have heard about the subject.
For those of you who haven’t, I’ll just give you some examples.
When you go into court, why do you have to go to court? You
play tennis on a court. You play basketball on a court. The whole
idea in a court is to put the ball back in the other guy’s court. So
you have a team of lawyers and they throw the ball back in
another guy’s court, and that team throws the ball back in the
other guy’s court, and the judge is a referee, and he doesn’t care
who wins or loses. He’s going to get paid anyway.
So he wears a black robe. Black robes... most people never
question why do Catholic priests wear black robes? Kids that
graduate from high school wear black robes; judges wear black
robes; rabbis wear black robes – because black robes represent
the planet Saturn. They are a symbol for the planet Saturn.
Saturn was called by the ancient people “Lord of the Rings” and
Saturn is Lord of the Rings.
This is why women were told in the ancient world to listen to
their god and the concept was that they would wear an ear-ring.
Men were to get married before their god, so they wear wedding
rings, because the old ancient god of the Middle East, one of the
ancient gods of the Middle East, was the planet Saturn. Saturn
was directly connected to Yahweh, the Hebrew god, so this is
why even today the Jews celebrate the worship of Saturn.
Saturn in the old Phoenician language was called Shabath. Look
up in the Phoenician language, you will find that the planet
Saturn was called Shabath and his worship to honor him once a
week was called Sabbath. So when the Jews are having Sabbath,
they’re actually paying homage to their god, Saturn, Lord of the
Rings.
488
So when you start breaking down where religions have come
from, theologies have come from...
The six-pointed star, for instance, is called the Star of David.
Actually it’s not the Star of David. All the encyclopedias and
reference works will tell you that it’s called the star of Saturn. It
is a hexagram. Hexagrams represented the planet Saturn.
Then when you look at the Christian system of things... the
church is a disgrace in my opinion. Period. The Christian church
is a disgrace. Everything that comes out of the Christian church
in America is a disgrace. It’s filled with lies, deception,
innuendos. It is a money-making corporation that operates under
maritime admiralty law, and there is a whole world of knowledge
that Christians have not been given about the scriptures, about
who wrote the Bible, where it came from.
I have found that even Judaism is not a B.C. [Ed note: “Before
Christ” – now designated as B.C.E. or “Before Common Era”]
religion. It did not exist in the B.C, you know. So, when we talk
about ancient Jerusalem, there was no ancient Israel – Jerusalem,
yes – but no ancient Israel. So, when you think about how
preachers and religious leaders talk about ancient Israel this and
ancient Israel that, in point of fact Israel is not a B.C. religion.
The whole concept of the Old Testament was developed right
around the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th century A.D., [Ed note: Anno
Domini, or “Year of Our Lord” – now called “the common era”
and designated C.E., but begins dating from birth of Christ] so
that the Old Testament is not an ancient record of an ancient
people. There was no ancient Israel.
Two of the greatest scholars – archaeologists – in Israel have
written a book called Unearthing the Bible. These two men, these
two archaeologists, are the best and the brightest of the
archaeologists in Israel.
In their book, basically that’s what they’ve said. There was no
Moses. There was no King Solomon. There was no King David.
The entire thing was written probably in the 8th, 9th, and 10th
Century A.D. in Europe, developed, and ultimately all of that was
taken by the Jesuits and the Catholic Church and rewoven into a
story and given to us today as an ancient Israel. There was no
ancient Israel. It never existed.
There was no Moses, there was no King Solomon. Solomon was
Sol-om-on. Sol is Latin for the Sun; Om is the Hindu word for the
creative force; and On is the name of the Sun in Egypt. The
Greeks call it Heliopolis, but the Egyptians called the City of the
Sun On. Go look in the dictionary. Look up the word On. It will
tell you it’s the City of the Sun in Egypt. This is why you flip a
light-switch on, because it was a city of light.
So, you take Sol-om-on, the three names of the sun in the ancient
esoteric languages, it becomes Solomon.
Even in the ancient Bibles, the old Bibles from the 12th, 13th,
and 14th century, it didn’t say King David – it kept talking about
King Druid.
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And incidentally, the system of government and laws that we live
under today in America and in the Western world is a druidic
system. America is a druidic country; Canada is druidic. Like I
said, Western civilization is a druidic establishment.
The druids were a very powerful priesthood in Europe, even
before the Roman Empire existed. They were the attorneys, the
lawyers, the religious leaders, the politicians. It was called the
druidic system.
One of the most important symbols in the druidic system was a
magic wand, like Merlin the Magician with his magic wand.
Orchestra leaders and conductors use a magic wand. That’s a
druid symbol.
The druid symbol of the magic wand was made out of the wood
of a Holly tree. It’s made out of Holly wood and the entire
establishment – Hollywood – is a druidic system. So, if you don’t
understand druidic symbols, you’ll never know what’s going on
in Hollywood, and where they’re being financed, who’s financing
them, and how this stuff really works in relation to government.
There’s an enormous amount of material out on the web showing
pictures – from motion pictures – from five, six, seven years
before 2001, before 9/11 in which 9/11 is in motion pictures, and
the original film of Matrix.
In the original Matrix movie, the star is given some kind of an
affidavit to sign, which is his identification or something, and the
camera zooms in on it for just a moment when he’s signing it.
But if you stop the film, stop it and back it up and zoom in, you
will see the document is about something that is going to happen.
It says September 11, 2001. And this was way before September
11th, before 9/11.
Chris Carter. Classic example of what I’m talking about...
Hollywood. Chris Carter, the creator of X-files. When X-files
ended, Chris Carter, the producer, started a whole new television
series called The Lone Gunmen. The very first movie was a lead-
off movie for the new television series, and in that movie that
came out right around February or March of 2001...
February or March of 2001, Chris Carter’s new television show,
called The Lone Gunmen, was started on Fox television. In the
very first episode, it’s talking about how factions within the US
government were going to fly 757s into the World Trade Center
and knock them down, purposely, and in the movie, you’re
seeing the planes going into the World Trade Center.
That was back, you know, eight months before it even happened.
Chris Carter is telling you something in the movie, and in the
movie they ask: Well, why are these people in the government
doing it?
And one of the guys in government said: Because we need to
control the Middle East. We need to control the oil flow; we need
to have a dominant place in the Middle East, so that we can
promote wars, which is good for business and... But that’s in the
movie, and it shows the planes going into the World Trade
Center.
489
General Electric. About three or four years before 9/11, General
Electric came out with a refrigerator in Italy, and on the face of
the refrigerator, painted, were two jets flying into the World
Trade Center. It shows the World Trade Center and two big
planes flying into them, and I have many, many pictures from
Hollywood showing 9/11 jets flying into the World Trade Center.
So, all I’m saying is that Hollywood knows what’s going on, and
this whole thing is being orchestrated from behind the scenes to
knock down the World Trade Center.
The day it happened, I became so depressed, I just dropped out of
speaking. I no longer toured, I no longer did radio, I no longer
talked to anyone, and I’ve been out of commission for many
years because 9/11 just shut me down.
As far as I was concerned, I was through with America. I was
through with all of it because any country that can buy three
high-rises falling down into dust and not ask any questions about
that... I just gave up. [applause]
[responding to audience]: Yeah. Because I’m well aware of how
governments work, religions work, and banks.
Well, let me give you an example. There are only two things on
the Earth; land and water.
People live on land so the law of the land is the law of people
who live on land. That’s why it’s called the law of the land. But
the law of the land is different in every country because it’s the
law of the people who live on the land. You can do things in
Russia [that] you can’t do in America. You can do things in
South Africa that you can’t do in China, so the law of the land is
different in every country.
But the law of water is the law of money – the cash flow, the
liquid assets. I’ll give you an example of how this works because
when a ship pulls into harbor, it’s coming in on water and it’s
going to bring products, so all ships by law must be female. This
is why you will always hear a captain saying that she is a good
ship. She is seaworthy. She, because all ships are female, and the
reason why is because she produces the product.
When a ship pulls into harbor, it parks at the dock. Each piece
coming off the ship has to have a Certificate of Manifest, and the
ship – where it sits – is in its berth.
So, when you were born, you came out of your mother’s water,
so you have to have a birth certificate and it’s signed by the Doc
and if you drop the car or the television, it’s a stillborn so you
have to have a death certificate.
So your body... as a matter of fact, your body is a security on the
New York Stock Exchange.
If you take your Social Security card – and I’m not going to talk
much more about this because there are other things I want to talk
about -- but this, I think, is interesting. If you take your Social
Security card, on the back of a Social Security card, you will see
a series of numbers. Those numbers on mine are in red and those
numbers on the back of the Social Security card represent your
physical body on the Stock Exchange in New York.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And if you take a bill, any kind of American bill – whatever it is,
$10, $20, $100, $1, whatever it is – you will see a series of
numbers here, code numbers, on the bill. You match the numbers
on the bill with the back of the Social Security card.
It’s because there’s about six-and-a-half-million dollars or more
circulating around the world with your Social Security number on
the bill because your body has a security on the New York Stock
Exchange.
They are buying and selling your personal body on the Stock
Exchange in New York. Most people don’t understand any of this
and have no idea what I’m talking about, but it’s the way banks
work.
And so I have discovered also that banks and government are
basically based on religion. Religion is at the bottom of all of
this.
This is why I have no respect. I have a respect, a reasonable
respect, for law and order. I’m not so stupid as not to understand
the need for red lights and the things which are required in law
for people to live together, but I have no respect for religion,
government, banking, and especially educational institutions,
because I know who finances these organizations. I know where
the money comes from.
Our banks were given to us by the Knights Templars, the
Masonic Lodge of Knights Templars in Europe. Our educational
institutions, universities and colleges, were given to us by the
Masonic Order coming out of Rome.
This is why the square mortar-board is a Catholic symbol. And
Jews... how many Jews know that when you wear a yarmulke,
that’s not Jewish? That’s Roman. That’s why the Pope wears the
yarmulke. That’s why the Cardinals wear the yarmulke. It’s a
Roman symbol; it’s not Jewish.
The Jews were told to wear the yarmulke to show subjection to
Rome and they got so used to using it they think it’s a Jewish
symbol. It’s not Jewish. It’s Roman.
Another thing that bothers me, too, when it comes to religion –
there is a world of difference between being anti-Semitic and
anti-Jewish. It doesn’t mean the same thing at all.
So when you hear someone use the term anti-Semitic just
remember that there’s four kinds of Semitic: north, east, south
and west Semitic. And there are 13 different races of people in
the world that are Semitic. The Arabs are Semitic.
So when you say someone’s anti-Semitic, it means that they are
against 13 races of people in the world, 13 nations. When
somebody says something about Jewish, it’s anti-Jewish, not anti-
Semitic.
So it’s just a small point but it’s big with me because people use
terms and they use the wrong terms and don’t understand what
they’re saying.
Religion, government, educational institutions: I have found that
so many people willingly... and as I said last night on this forum,
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so many people willingly bend themselves to what their masters
want from them. What your masters want is for you to be in
compliance, for you to think what they have told you to think.
I’ve been behind the cameras in national television studios and
watched network news people doing their job. What most people
do not realize is on the nightly news from the networks, when
you see the newsman talking directly to you, he’s talking right
into the camera giving you the news. In point of fact, that’s not
what’s happening.
There is a big box, a large box with a television screen on the
bottom, and there’s a glass, a clear glass on an angle, and there’s
a guy sitting off to the side typing, or it’s already typed. They’re
telling the newsman what to say, word for word. And so the
television screen is hitting this glass and it’s reflecting straight
out so that the newsman can sit right there and look directly into
the camera and read the news.
So he’s just reading what somebody else wrote, and that guy
wrote it because the boss told him what to write. The news is
nothing more than what somebody higher up wants you to
believe.
So that’s why I have no respect for the news. I don’t watch
television. I’m not interested in Hollywood or movies as such,
but there is a lot of interesting stuff in movies.
Government: Again I say, and it’s just my belief, I believe
government boils down to the war between the Crips and the
Bloods. [laughter] That’s all it is. It’s just one gang is superior to
another gang, unless of course that other gang gets a little more
money and gets a little bit more vicious; now they take over
town. So it’s a war between gangs.
Because after all, when it’s all boiled down, it boils down to one
thing: We’re all human, and humans, like Martin Luther King
said: People are organizations.
Martin Luther King said organizations are a lot more naughtier
than individuals. Individuals can be bad and corrupt, but when
you get a whole bunch of individuals bad and corrupt and they’re
wearing uniforms and wearing badges, now you’ve got a gang.
And the police department even have said that. They tell me
things like that: You know, we’re the biggest gang in town. We’re
legal. We can do whatever we want.
So I understood a long time ago that government is simply gang
warfare. Who’s going to run this town? What family in the mob
is going to run this area of the town? So that is why I have no
respect for government, banking, or any of the rest of it.
I could go on about so many different things that I’m interested
in. Again, like I said, religion is a big thing with me.
I believe that the story about Jesus in the New Testament... it’s
just my opinion, but I believe that that story is an encoded
message. It’s a metaphor. It does not represent history as such but
it is a very powerful encoded story.
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If you understand the symbols and the words that are used in the
New Testament in the story of Jesus and understand that the
entire story is a metaphor, you read between the lines and begin
to see that there’s symbols, and ideas are being expressed and
you didn’t even see it.
A classic example is, why did Judas go out and kiss Jesus? – just
an example. In the Bible we’re told that Judas went out and
kissed Jesus. Christians will tell you: Well, the reason why he did
that was to identify him so that he could be arrested.
No. Logic alone would tell you that’s incorrect, because Jesus
would not have been living in the south side of Chicago or the
north end of New York. He would have been living in a little
Mickey Mouse little village, probably 300 people there at the
most, 15 to 20 minutes to walk across the whole town.
And so how could he be hiding? Who would be so stupid as to
not know who he is? He’s sitting out there in the garden with his
followers, so what do you need to go out and kiss him for… to
identify?
Well, that’s not what the Bible says. It doesn’t say he went out to
identify. It says Judas went out and kissed Jesus to betray him,
not identify.
This is why the Mafia, when you’re going to be killed, they give
you the kiss of death. In the ancient world in the Middle East,
when a scorpion bites you it leaves two cuts on your skin, and
those two cuts look just like human lips, so the ancient people
said you’ve been given the kiss of death.
This is why when the mob’s going to whack you, they give you
the kiss of death, right? It’s because the scorpion is a back-biter.
Jesus represents in the story a symbol. It’s a metaphor, and Jesus
is a metaphor for the sun. And so, boiling it down, Christianity is
sun worship based on astrology, because nobody owns the sun.
Africans don’t own it, and we don’t own the sun, so obviously
the sun belongs to God – so it’s God’s sun [and/or son] and he’s
the light of the world.
Of course the sun’s the light of the world. What else lights the
world if it’s not the sun?
And he has twelve helpers. Yeah, of course, the twelve signs of
the Zodiac, the twelve months of the year.
He is our risen savior. Of course; it rises every morning about
5:30, and the sun is your savior. If it don’t come up, we’re dead.
So once you start breaking down the symbols in the New
Testament, you begin to see that Christianity is basically
Astrology and sun worship, but it has been so well hidden and so
cleverly disguised. Once you start breaking it down and reading
the whole story, it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that this is
what we are talking about.
He has a virgin birth; he’s born of a virgin -- of course virgin
birth, because one of the constellations of the Zodiac is Virgo,
Virgo the virgin.
491
Let me give you an example of how this works. On the first day
of summer, the very first day of summer, the sun is as high in the
northern hemisphere as it’s going to go. It doesn’t go any further
north.
The first day of summer, the sun is high in the northern
hemisphere and it begins to work its way south. Each day it
moves one degree, and as it moves one degree each day, 90 days
later or 90 degrees later, it’s half-way down. So now we say that
the sun was the Lion King in summer, the Lion King because the
sun was in the constellation of Leo... the Lion King from Disney.
But then as the sun moves southward it finally hits Scorpio. So
God’s sun [and/or son] was really hot. He was the Lion King but
now he’s falling, so now we call that fall because he’s fallen, and
he’s falling south, so it moves into fall in Scorpio.
This is why Judas gives Jesus the kiss of death because Judas
represents Scorpio and Scorpio gives God’s sun [and/or son], the
light of the world, the kiss of death and now he’s going to die in
Capricorn. He’s going to die and go all the way down.
But what’s interesting about this is that the sun goes all the way
down south until it hits what is called the Winter Solstice and
that’s on December 22nd.
The sun hits the lowest point on the sky in the south on
December 22nd. It’s called the Winter Solstice, the beginning of
winter, and for three days... the United States Navy will show and
explain it to you, that the sun comes up for three days, the 22nd,
23rd, and 24th on the same degree. It doesn’t go any further south
and it doesn’t come back north. On the same degree that it was on
on December 22nd, the sun rises the next two days, 23rd and
24th, on the same degree. So the ancient people said that the sun
[and/or son] was alive. It was the Lion of the tribe of Judah, Leo,
who got the kiss of death from Scorpio, and now for three days
he’s not moving at all, so therefore he’s in his tomb for three
days.
Then on the 25th of December, the sun moves one degree
northward, and you can calculate that as the Navy does. You can
calculate it. It’s very slight, but if you’ve got the right
instruments you can see the sun move one degree northward.
Therefore, it came back to life.
So now we celebrate God’s sun[and/or son] being born again.
He’s born again. When? On December 25th, so we celebrate
Christmas or Christ Mass.
As the sun moves back towards the northern hemisphere, it
crosses over the equator at spring because he was dead in winter
now he’s springing back to life.
So as he comes back to life and crosses over the equator there
was a celebration called the Passover because the sun has passed
over the equator, coming back to the northern hemisphere.
So today when someone dies we say: Grandmother passed last
night. Grandfather passed away, or they passed on; but always
passed was associated with death. So God’s sun [and/or son] has
passed over the equator.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So once a year around the world the Jews celebrate the Passover,
which is nothing more than the sun passing over the equator.
Christians, of course, cannot do that because that’s Jewish and
they wouldn’t want to have anything to do with the Jewish
celebration, so Christians have a totally different celebration.
They call it the Resurrection of God’s son.
And so they go out on the Passover and go out and have
something called the Easter sunrise service. So you actually have
Christians going out and waiting for the sun to come up for
something called a sunrise service. I mean, what is that all about?
Christians are worshipping the sun?
And then when you start looking at how the word S-O-N and S-
U-N are interchangeable in Christianity... and God knows there’s
a lot of information on that. So basically you boil down
Christianity as sun worship / Astrology. The Old Testament is
Astrology / sun worship. Yahweh, as I said, was associated with
the sun and the planet Saturn.
Let me give you another example about the ancient religions of
the world.
Moses was a lunar deity. Moses was the leader of the Moon cult.
This is why in all the paintings and sculpturing in Europe you
always see Moses wearing horns. Have you ever seen that?
Moses wearing horns? It’s in the Vatican. It’s in all the museums
of the world.
Why is Moses always pictured with horns? Because Moses was
the leader of a lunar cult, the Moon worshippers. So at one time
the Jews were worshippers of the Moon and that period of time
we call the period of Moses.
This is why the Native Americans, their chiefs wore horns. The
Vikings wore horns, because all of these cults, cultures – Native
Americans, Vikings, and the ancient people of the Middle East –
worshipped the Moon.
The Moon, of course, in the lower quarter was the horns, and this
is why they wore horns.
In Arabia there’s a high mountain range and at night from the
Egyptian side, the Moon comes up in the east. It comes up from a
mountain range, and so the ancient peoples believed that the
Moon was a god and that it lived in the mountain and so their
religious celebrations of the Old Man of the Mountain, the Moon
god.
In the ancient Arabic system the Moon god was called Sin, S-I-N.
That was his name. The Moon god of Arabia was Sin, and a
mountain in the ancient language a mountain was spelt A-I. So
you take a mountain – Ai – with the god who lived in the
mountain, the Moon god – Sin – and put it together and it
becomes Sin-Ai.
So you get all the... Moses goes up into Sinai. No. It’s Sin-Ai, the
mountain of the Moon god. This is why Jews have their
celebration after sundown, because that’s when the Moon comes
out.
492
They don’t have their celebration during the day because that’s
when the sun’s out, so that’s the time for Christians to celebrate
God’s sun [and/or son]. The Jews are worshipping the Moon god,
Sin.
So I don’t intend to... I’m not trying to offend anyone, but I’m
just trying to tell you where religions come from. Religions have
been given to us by the same people who gave us our
government, our banks, our educational institutions. Our whole
entire ruddy system in Western civilization is based on religion,
politics, sex, drugs, and rock ‘n roll.
It’s just business. It’s just money. It’s just the control of people.
And if you think it’s crazy when I say sex, you have no idea in
the world how sex plays a part in everything. The very fact that a
man wears a black robe... that’s a feminine dress... and, god,
there’s so much you could talk about with this subject of sex in
religion. I mean, the whole thing is based on sex.
The cross is a sexual symbol. Even in Egypt, the Egyptian
obelisk; the Egyptian obelisk is... like the Washington
Monument, for instance. The Washington Monument has an
Egyptian obelisk. An obelisk represented a male phallic in the
erection and the male phallic is connected to the female ovaries.
It’s called the oval office, right? [laughter]
And the water down... the water strip... is her water, and so when
her water breaks the male phallic connects to the female ovaries,
the oval office. Sexual symbols everywhere.
A six-pointed star, a star of Saturn.
So the point I’m making is that our institutions around the world,
especially in Western civilization, are based on symbolism, lies,
deception, manipulation of our thinking.
And somewhere along the line, if you’re really looking for truth –
and most people aren’t... Like that movie, when the... who was it?
Tom… [audience responses] Yeah, in the movie... Anyway, the
kid says he wants the truth and the other guy said: You can’t
handle the truth.
[The move is “A Few Good Men” with Tom Cruise and Jack
Nicolson locked in a classic court battle over the truth.] I believe
that’s exactly right. I don’t think that the world of mankind can
handle the real truth about how the world really works.
You know, I said last night that I believe that democracy is the
very worst possible form of government on the Earth. I don’t
think you can get a worse government than democracy.
And the reason I’m saying that, I can clarify it now. First of all
demos in Greek is a mob. That’s why when a mob is out in the
street with plaques, ranting and raving, we call it a demo-stration.
A demo-stration is... demo is a mob of people.
And so demo-ocracy – ocracy is the rule. So the rule of the mob
is democracy. True democracy is 45 whites hanging one black.
That’s democracy. We all voted and one guy’s got to die. We all
voted. It’s democracy.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
No. America was founded as a Constitutional Republic. A
Constitutional Republic means there is a set rule of laws that
everyone abides by, and it was set up in such a way as to protect
the person, the individual, from the mob.
You know, down south where I come from, the Ku Klux Klan,
they could pick out anybody they want, and there’s 45 of them
and they take you out and hang you and who’s going to say
anything? It’s was a democracy; we all voted, and therefore it
must be legal.
No. America was set up as a Constitutional Republic, which
means the Constitution was a law and everyone, no matter who it
is in the country, had to abide by the law and it protected you as
an individual.
The biggest problem with a democracy is very simple, if you just
think about it. Democracy means mob rule. It doesn’t matter what
the law says.
And incidentally I want to throw this out to you. We hear all the
time that America is the land of laws; we are a country based on
law. In point of fact, that is not true. In point of fact, it is just the
opposite. America is the most lawless country on the Earth.
Period. There is no law in America.
Think about that, what I just told you: There is no law in
America. What we have here is whatever the judge says it is, and
whatever the judge says it is, that’s what the law is.
If you go to a different court, and a different judge, but the same
identical information, facts, and figures, he’ll maybe give a
different verdict. Well, that’s what the law says; that’s the law.
No, that’s not the law. It’s what that guy said.
I learned all of this when I was traveling around, going to the
different churches and different cults. Jehovah’s Witnesses are a
classic example. I could use the Mormons as a classic example. I
could use any of these churches as classic examples of what I’m
talking about.
There is no set law in any religious organization, in the church, or
any cult, or any group, or any political group. It’s whatever the
boss in that particular group says it is – that’s what the law is.
And so, even in Jehovah’s Witnesses they will have the elder in
that church will tell you: Well, here’s what the Bible says and
here’s what the law is. Now, if you go to a different one, he’s
was like: Oh that guy’s full of bull. Here’s what the real thing...
here’s the real...
And then you understand it doesn’t matter where you go, in any
Mormon church, in any Seventh Day Adventist church, any
Christadelphian, any World Wide Church of God, any cult, any
rabbi, any synagogue... it doesn’t matter. Whoever is in charge of
that one particular church where you are, that’s the law.
And that’s exactly what’s going on in America. It doesn’t matter
what the actual law books say. You cannot go into a court in this
country and win on the basis of facts. That is the facts of life.
You cannot win in a court in America on the basis of facts.
Period.
493
[applause]
The judge don’t give a damn about the facts. He’s the boss and in
this court he calls the shots.
Well yeah, but the other judge said...
I don’t care what the other judge said. This is my court and I call
the shots, so I will decide. If I kind of like you maybe I’ll give you
a break. If I don’t like you maybe I’ll add ten years. Now what
are you going to do about it?
You say: Yeah, well, but the law says...
No, no. Don’t bring that up. This is my court. I call the shots.
Therefore there is no law. America is a land of lawlessness.
In the Bible in the Book of Revelations, it talks about the rise of
the man of lawlessness, and I’ve often wondered about that. It is
very interesting... a lot of interesting, important stuff written in
the Bible if you know what you’re looking at.
But it talks about in the Book of Revelation the rise of something
called the man of lawlessness and I used to wonder what in the
world was that all about, because America’s got so many laws.
We’ve got thousands of law books. That’s all we are: we’ve got
law books, so how can there be a man of lawlessness that would
rise in the world?
Well, now I understand. America is the home of the man of
lawlessness.
George Bush couldn’t care less what the Constitution says, the
Bill of Rights... it just don’t matter. He’s the boss and whatever
he says do, that’s what you’re doing. You say: But the law says...
They don’t care and if you bring that up again, you’re going to
jail. Why? Because he represents the Vatican.
The Bush regime was front for the Vatican – the most important
enemy this country has today. People will never understand it,
but the biggest enemy that this nation today has is the Vatican.
The Vatican is behind the crap that’s going on all over.
[applause]
What do you think the Founding Fathers, whatever we call them,
the Founding Fathers... Where did they come from, the people
who founded this country? They came from Europe. Well, for
2,500 years Rome, under the Caesars of Rome, and then after the
fall of the Caesars in the 4th century, and with the coming of the
Vatican in the 5th century, all of Europe has been dominated for
over 2,500 years by Rome. And Europe has dominated the world
for 2,500 years.
So I’m saying that if you want to find out who the real enemy of
this country is, you’d better start looking at the Holy Father and
you’d better start finding out the connection between the Vatican
and the Nazi party of Adolf Hitler.
[applause]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
KC: Thank you. Thank you, Jordan. I’m sorry... we have very KC: Thank you, Jordan. We’d love to do a Camelot interview
limited time, so we have to let David Wilcock come on stage with you, Jordan. I’m saying that here in public on stage.
now. Anytime.

JM: And I’m just getting warmed up.
KC: I know you are and… [applause/ laughter] … God bless you.
[applause/ ovation/ whistles] That’s right. Stand up for this man.
JM: Thank you.
JM: I want to add one more comment quickly. When you hear
people talk about Jewish conspiracy, Jewish this and Jewish
that... it’s Vatican, not Jewish. [applause]
KC: Thank you very much. Thank you so much.
JM: Thank you. Thank you.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription
Team. All the transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several
years. We are like ants: we may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

494
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Project Camelot:
LA Awake and Aware Conference
David Wilcock - 2012: The Return to Camelot
Interview Transcript
20 September 2008
[Ed note: Normally the transcripts that had any parts in them
that had been difficult for the transcribers to hear were put in
“audibles” in square brackets in red for Bill Ryan to attend to,
fix, then he’d post the transcript; however, due to unexpected
interruptions in the normal working process in Project Camelot,
this normal process was not able to proceed forward, so the
audibles were left in the square brackets.]
KERRY CASSIDY (KC): David Wilcock is a really stellar
individual, as everyone here knows, and we thank him very much
for being who he is and for putting himself in such a dedicated
place, to serve humanity with his life. We honor him for that and
we stand right at his side.
That doesn't mean we agree on everything, or how it will roll out,
or this or that, but in the main we agree. All right? And we're
very happy to present him here today. David Wilcock.
[applause]
DAVID WILCOCK (DW): Thank you. Thank you, Kerry. All
right, we do have a lot of material to cover; we don't have a lot of
time. How many people here need a bathroom break, or are you
ready to just keep going?
AUDIENCE: Go, go.
DW: Just go? All right. Now, you video guys, do you need me to
wear a Lavalier mic for the video recording? Or, you're okay? All
right.
The other thing is, if you guys are doing this live streaming, can
you cut back and forth between my slides and my face as it's
going out live? Can you do that? Okay. Because there is going to
be a lot of slides and they will go fairly quickly.
495
Okay, now we've gotten the business taken care of, let's get down
to the real work, which is this subject of 2012.
What I will be proposing tonight is definitely not your typical
approach to 2012.
It is very important to understand on an intrinsic level that what
we are dealing with is not channeling, it is not Mayan prophecy,
it is not ancient religious teaching, it is not speculation and it is
not psychic.
It does not require anything except the exacting measurements of
the scientific process and the insight to be able to take
information that has already been put out there by NASA, by
mainstream scientists studying the mysteries of what it means to
be a biological life form, the mysteries of the Solar System, the
mysteries of energy and matter, and how does matter and energy
truly function.
When you start looking at the hidden mysteries of science, which
are already out there now, you find out that the human species is
undergoing a massive evolutionary process right now. And I'm
going to prove that to you.
I'm going to prove to you that the nature of this evolutionary
process fundamentally rewrites DNA and biological life to such
an extreme that within one generation – I will show you the proof
in this presentation – that a creature can give birth to something
that becomes an entirely different species than the creature whose
womb it came out of...
...and that there is nothing more that needs to be done to create
that energetic change but to simply zap the embryo with a light
wave that comes from another embryo that has the genetic pattern
that you wish to transfer.
The only way that this makes any sense is to begin seeing DNA
as susceptible to quantum wave effects.
You may have seen, most of you have probably seen 2012
Enigma, which is a video of mine that I'm proud to say was
number one most viewed on Google, December 1st of last year.
The reason why it got that way is because the information has
rocked the Internet. It has led to my getting the starring position
on a Syfy documentary coming out in November, on Syfy
Network.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
It's led to Penguin contacting me to write a book based on the
video, one of the biggest publishing companies out there.
It has led to my working with -- I'm going to say this now
publicly -- Jim Hart, who wrote the movie Contact with Jodie
Foster. That is our screenwriter.
[applause]
Thank you. I'm working on Wanderer Awakening, which is the
album cover you see here in the slide, with the nine-time
Grammy-winning musician, Larry Seyer.
The reason why all this big talent and why all this attention is
being focused here is not because I may have been somebody
else in another lifetime. It's not because I have done psychic
readings. It's not because I put prophecies on the Internet that
later were shown to come true.
The biggest thing that I bring to the planet right now is to simply
look at ancient prophecies that we know to exist, that we can
document in great detail, and to then give a scientific framework
for these prophecies on such an advanced level that we're looking
at things in an entirely different way.
So, let's get back to 2012 Enigma for a minute. Most of you have
seen that video. You may remember that I discuss an experiment
that was conducted in which a tiny, what's called a buckyball,
was shot through a grating. The grating is 100 nanometers wide.
The buckyball itself is only about one or two nanometers wide. It
goes through the grating and it turns into a wave.
The buckyball itself, which is supposed to be a macroscopic
object, goes through this little slit, and for whatever reason, it
turns into a non-local wave.
Now what does quantum non-locality really mean? It means that
you don't know where the wave is in space. You also don't know
where the wave is in time.
Quantum non-locality shows that the more you try to find out
where it is in time, the less you can find it in space; the more you
try to find out where it is in space, the less you can find it in time.
If you look at the quantum physics equations, it's well known in
quantum mechanics that the time has to be both backwards /
forwards – it has to be completely non-linear in the traditional
sense.
Albert Einstein has given us the Theory of Relativity. The Theory
of Relativity is going to tell you that when you travel through
space; it's not empty space. What did Einstein call space? He
didn't call it space, he called it space-time.
The reason why he called it space-time is that he said you're
moving through something that makes time start running faster as
you go through space. So you could literally be inside a
spaceship, leave the Earth for two weeks flying at the speed of
light, come back, and it's 500 years later.
496
We know that this has been proven. It actually was done on
jumbo jets flying at the highest altitude they could, where they
had little watches on them, or little radioactive time-keeping
devices, and they found very subtle, but definite changes in the
speed of time, just based on the velocity of a jet going around
Earth orbit.
So, imagine what happens when you go up towards light speed.
Now, this is a proven principle in physics: As you move through
space, you're also moving through the so-called time fabric, the
space-time fabric, as Einstein called it.
There was a mistake that Einstein made in his scientific
understanding of space-time. It may be a mistake, or it may be
that he figured it out and he didn't want to talk about what he
discovered.
In the Einstein Relativity Theory, it is assumed that the only
direction you can move is into the future – if it's space-time, the
time dimension is only one dimensional.
But, we actually now know from the physics of Dewey Larson,
which you'll also see on my 2012 video, that the whole way that
the quantum world is being built is that there is a domain in
which time as we think of it is three dimensional, and space as we
think of it is one dimensional.
That world is constantly interchanging energy back and forth
with space-time. We call it time-space over there. It is space-time
over here.
So, this time-space realm over there is sending energy into space-
time and it's pinging back and forth – and that is what creates
matter.
The reason why this is important is that if you can get over into
time-space, then you can actually travel a physical distance and
return to space-time, and you have now time-traveled... and it is
not just the future. You can actually travel into the past.
If you're traveling in the direction that the Earth is rotating, and
you travel ahead of where the Earth was rotating when you left,
you're going to end up in the future, because you now re-emerge
in space-time ahead of where the Earth was on its timeline when
you left.
If you travel west, that's into the past. East is the future, west is
the past. And again, it's going to sound ridiculous and for those
who are uneducated, they'll blast me on the Internet and say that
I'm full of it.
But, the fact of the matter is, this is very much provable stuff. I've
had people write me and say that the science in 2012 Enigma is
ridiculous.
Well, go to www.reciprocalsystem.com. Read Dewey Larson's
books because there are several of them, and find out for yourself
how he breaks down every single problem in quantum mechanics
and shows you've got to have three-dimensional time.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So all we're saying is, if you can get over into time-space, it's
going to look like everything does here, because every atom and
molecule around me right now is here because it is exchanging
with time-space. So there is time-space stuff in every place
around me.
That means all this stuff exists as a parallel structure in a parallel
universe, and when you go over there, it becomes your three
dimensions of space. It's going to look the same because the
energy of it is the same energy that is here in space-time.
Now, here is where it gets really confusing, if it's not already
confusing. [laughter]
See, in my mind, I don't have to worry about this stuff. It comes
in very naturally.
You actually have an energetic pair to your physical body which
is in time-space, okay? But, there are all these bonuses that your
energy body has in time-space that your physical body doesn't
have here.
What I'm literally telling you is that every nook and cranny, every
little funny fold of your brain exists as a parallel energetic
structure that is coupled with the cells in your brain, that
interfaces with the cells in your brain, that interfaces with every
molecule of DNA in your body.
That is where ALL thought processes are actually occurring.
They're not occurring in your nervous system at all in terms of
intellect.
The body does produce certain forms of thought. You have an
autonomic nervous system. You have a cerebellum that keeps
you from falling over, makes sure that you're balanced by
working with the fluid in the chamber of your ear, the cochlea.
You have all of the basic systems that are going to make sure that
your heart is beating, that your lungs are breathing, that your eyes
are not taking in all the information peripherally so that you can
focus on what you're looking at.
You have a screening mechanism that is going to screen out
background noise so that, if there is television on and somebody
is talking to you, you're going to listen to them talking and not
hear the television. You're not going to hear all the input and
weigh it the same.
497
Those types of things are biologically-driven systems. The body
makes those thoughts for you.
All of the actual intellect, all of the actual thinking that you're
going to be doing in your mind is not in the body at all. You have
a parallel body, a parallel brain, a parallel nervous system that is
an energetic nervous system.
But, it doesn't look like your physical body because your physical
body doesn't have billions and billions of strings coming out of it.
It doesn't have an instantaneous energetic connection that you can
visibly see to everything else in its environment.
What I'm asking you to visualize as strings is actually simply an
energy field. In time-space, you are part of that energy field and
your mind is not simply that which is created within your own
energy field. It very much is affected by all these other things that
are around you, including the thoughts of other people.
The very fascinating case of Norman Mailer, the famous novelist
who wrote a novel called Barbary Shore... in this novel, he starts
out writing about one main character and gradually changes the
novel to write about a Russian spy. The Russian spy becomes the
focus of the entire novel. He goes into great detail.
Within the same week that he finishes Barbary Shore, a Russian
spy was arrested in his same building that he was living in – just
up the stairs and down the hallway.
Now, does this mean there was a conduit that was going through
the air vent so that he could hear what this guy was saying? Of
course not.
What it does mean, though, is that that man was so emotionally
charged because he was at the end of his rope and he knew he
was going to get caught, that his mind was sending out signals.
And Norman Mailer's mind is an energetic phenomenon which is
sensitive to its environment, and picked up the signals that were
being generated.
Now, again, I talked about the experiment where buckyballs are
shot through a hundred-nanometer grate, a little tiny slit. They
turn into a wave just by hitting the grate. It's like it makes them
like flip inside out and go from space-time, where they're a
particle, into time-space.
That solid particle, which has 120 atoms in it... it's not just like
some tiny little thing. It's a ball, it's got structure, it's got form, it's
got shape. It literally popped out of our space-time entirely.
It flipped over into a realm where time is three dimensional,
space is one dimensional, and it smears out – it's partly in the
past, it's partly in the present, it's partly in the future. In that state
it looks like a wave, because you can't measure where everything
is anymore.
So, now get a load of this. The DNA molecule is only slightly
wider than a buckyball. Which means the DNA molecule is also
subject to quantum effects in which the molecules within your
DNA are phasing between being here in space-time and being in
time-space, where they actually are stretched out through linear
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
time; and they're sensitive to all the other energy fields around
them.
Now again, this is science. All we're doing is we're starting with
Einstein's Relativity. We're saying that as you move through
space, you move through time. The faster you move through
space, the faster you're traveling through time.
In time-space you can move not just in the future, but into the
past as well, depending on what direction you're traveling.
The Russians have identified the “time field”, which means that
if you speed up the time field in a small area, time will run faster
or slower in that area compared to everything else around it.
They've got lots of experiments with little wrist watches and stuff
where they put them in the time field and the time field makes it
speed up or slow down.
Now, pyramids are one of those things that will make those
watches change speed, so a pyramid is an actual symbol of
something that will cause change to occur.
The pyramid is a symbol, but it's also a technology – it's also a
machine.
The symbol of the pyramid is that which is reaching up. It's
something that's reaching for the heavens. It represents geometry
and there is geometry that makes this energy field of the time
field I'm talking about function. It's all based on geometry, which
is more complex than what we're going to do in this presentation.
The time field is something which not only affects the passage of
linear time; it also affects the health of your body. The more of
this time field that's flowing through your body, the healthier
you're going to be, and paradoxically, the slower you're going to
age.
It's when the flow of the time field stops that you move out of
eternity, that you move out of timelessness. It's when time stops
flowing through you that you stop being an eternal being and you
begin aging.
Remember that scientific study that Deepak Chopra talked about
in Ageless Body, Timeless Mind where he gets a bunch of elderly
people and he puts them in a room where it has the magazines of
40 years ago. It has the radio broadcasts, it has all the furniture,
everything.
What he found was that within a very short period of time, all
these people had a remarkable turn-around where they started to
reverse aging. They actually started getting younger in a way that
is molecularly, biologically provable. That's because the time
field started flowing again. They started to have hope.
The time field is that which gives you inspiration. If you want to
know whether the time field is really flowing through you or not,
you can tell because you will be in a state of uplifting gratitude
and positive emotion.
It is a scientific fact that the more that your mind goes into that
state of resonance, of positive attitude, of fearlessness, of
courage, you are causing time to flow through you faster, which
498
means you have the power of eternity at your fingertips, which
means you are at the forefront of the human evolutionary process.
But, this is not something that only relies upon your ingenuity
and your dedication to a spiritual path. It is something that is
being done for you by forces that are very mysterious, because
they are much greater than what you would normally think of as
your conscious mind.
You want to talk about the monolith in 2001 and how mysterious
that was? That's not even the beginning of what we're talking
about now.
This big stone slab shows up and all of a sudden, all those
cavemen learn how to use tools, and they can kill each other now,
and they become the dominant species.
Then, at the point where the movie goes into the present, the
monolith shows up on the Moon. Commander David Bowman, at
the end of the movie, ends up becoming the new Adam, the new
species of humanity, after he goes through a stargate.
There's a lot of things that are known on the inside and this stuff
is not a secret. It is not a secret. Even though it has been kept
secret, it has been attempted to be kept secret, it is not secret.
All of the information we need is already here so that we can
definitively understand that what is happening to the Earth is a
naturally-occurring process. It is a sacred process motivated by
forces of intelligence that would stagger the imagination.
Back in the old days, you had a LAN system in which a computer
was just a monitor and a typewriter. You plugged it up to one
central computer and everybody's little dummy terminal, as it was
called, was plugged into that one computer.
On some level, each of us is the dummy terminal. We appear to
be separate, we appear to be an identity that has an ego, that has a
body, and we identify with the body.
On some grander level, the body is merely a projection. It's like if
you have a prism and light is going through the prism, and as it
rotates you see these rainbows around the room.
Each one of you is one of those rainbows but would you say each
of those rainbows are each an individual generator of light? No.
The light is generated by whatever is striking the prism. Those
individual pieces of rainbow light are just the reflections of the
one light that strikes the prism.
If you want to really get into the esoteric science and understand
what the ancient prophecies are telling us and why it is so
relevant to what you're going to hear in this talk, try to vibe into
the fact that the entire manifest universe, that matter and energy
itself, are but reflections of this one singular light. That all
visibility in the universe, everything we can measure, is a
reflection into what we think is space and what we think is time.
But when you start really understanding what time is, you realize
you can go whatever direction you want - forwards, backwards
and sideways.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
When you understand space, you realize that space doesn't pose
any obstacle if you can pop through to time-space, back and forth
from space-time to time-space.
You can wormhole yourself, or portal yourself, or whatever they
want to call it, from any point in the universe to any other,
instantaneously. That is how it's done, because there is no actual
location.
Location is an illusion which is based on the rules of the road, so
that we have one Intelligent Super-Being that has wanted to
experience multiplicity; It has wanted to experience separation,
so that It can reunify.
In terms of how that functions in our Galaxy, the Galaxy is
generating intelligent waves, which you're going to see the proof
for in this presentation, and those waves upgrade the speed of this
time field or of what I call “the source field”.
The speed of vibration of the source field is going up.
If that speed represents how well you think, it's no different than
you upgrading your computer and going from this ridiculously
bad processor, where you could barely even get any of your
websites to load because it takes so long, and getting this really
fast machine where now every page, POOF! [blows into
microphone]
Sorry about that. [laughter] She almost jumped right out of her
seat. I'll try to do that a little more delicately next time.
Okay. So, you broke me out of my trance now. Now, I've got to
actually talk from the ego: [switches to fake accent] How is it
going, man? [laughter] What the hell was I talking about?
[back to himself] All right, let's see, we've got to the get the
download back in play here.
When we understand that this energy field is part of the Galaxy,
that the Galaxy is a conscious being, the Galaxy has energy that
must be conscious. The energy that is in the entire universe must
be conscious and it must create life.
Life is the Divine imprimatur of all energy in the universe. All
energy in the universe is built to create life.
The physicists call this the "Goldilocks Principle" and they don't
even have a clue as to how far the Goldilocks Principle goes – it's
not too hot, it's not too cold, it's just right.
That's what they're talking about in terms of planets like ours and
how we have just the right amount of oxygen, just the right
amount of water, just the right temperature, all these things are
perfect.
It's not an accident. Life on Earth is not some random little thing
that only happens once in the history of the cosmos. Life on Earth
is actually programmed to be here.
We have to get rid of this idea that... Well, we don't have to. I try
not to use must and have to, because those are very strong words.
499
It would be beneficial to learn that there are forces out there
much greater than the human intellect, much greater than the ego,
much greater than the body.
There are forms of consciousness that could be an entire planet,
that could be the Sun, that could be the Galaxy, which is really
nothing more than a bunch of suns and planets in a big cluster.
Well, we can prove that that's going on. So I'm going to start
showing you some things here.
The first criticism that anyone will have when you go into a 2012
discussion is they say, Well, nothing is really that different.
Everything's the same.
[slide: Is This Just Another “Ordinary” Time in History?]
We're pretty much doing the same thing now that we've always
been doing. We get a little bit of progress here, a little bit of
progress there, but nothing is going on right now. There's
nothing unique or special about this time in history.
I beg to differ.
This is a picture that you're going to see from the fires in
Australia.
[slide: picture of a Koala Bear drinking water from a small water
bottle held by a fireman, with one paw in the hand of the fireman]
You may not think of this, but Koalas in the wild are actually
quite dangerous. They'll claw you and scratch you; they'll attack
viciously to protect their home.
But when it comes to these Earth changes, this Koala was more
than willing to accept nourishment and love from a human. A
wild Koala. He's not scratching, he's not attacking.
Now this is the thing that people don't seem to understand. The
universe is built to deliver the experiences that are already
happening.
The universe is not a cosmic comforter that hands you a lollipop
when you don't love yourself and says, Oh, I'm just going to just
send you all these people who are going to love you because you
don't love yourself; and, Oh, I'm sorry you don't love yourself. Let
me send you loving people.
[laughs] Is that how it works? What happens to you when don't
love yourself? What does the universe send to you? Does it send
you a lollipop?
Hey, look at that. That person doesn't love himself, that person
doesn't have a high opinion of himself. I have a puppet now, I can
manipulate that puppet. I can make that person do what I want
because they are too afraid to go against me. They want to be
polite. They have such a low self esteem that if I tell them
something that I want them to do, they're not going to want to
upset me.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So, what the universe actually does is, that if you have a
weakness, if you have something you don't like, the universe
says, Oh, you don't like that. Well, here, have some more. Have
some more.
Until you get to the point that you simply accept experience, and
accept yourself. And when you learn to accept yourself, you will
not be manipulated because you will decide that it's better to
preserve your sovereignty than be manipulated by someone else.
You will decide that your state of mind, being positive and
uplifting, is a better state for you to be in than the state you're
going to have to go through temporarily to really piss somebody
off when they're trying to manipulate you.
Because they're going to take it personally, they're going to get
angry; they're going to throw hate at you. That's what they do.
That's what these types of people do.
Now, we're not judging those people, except insofar as that they
are in confusion. They are living in a confusion that makes them
think that the body is who they are and they are trying to do
things to comfort the body, at your expense.
This is the meme that's going on, on the entire planet. That's what
a lot of these talks that you've been hearing are about. We are
talking about how much corruption and greed and rottenness has
festered into the society and the structure of civilization on Earth.
In the governments, in the militaries and the corporations, in the
school systems, in the financial systems -- throughout everything
there is this corruption, this molding that has occurred.
Let's get out of the idea that this is a victim consciousness that
we're going through. That's what I'd recommend.
You do what you want, but this is how I've decided to live: I'm
not going to be anybody's victim. I'm not going to be anybody's
slave.
I claim and I ask you with me right now, by your applause, to
claim your freedom and your sovereignty in this moment. Let's
have a hand for that.
[applause/ hoots/ whistles] All right!
If you can claim your freedom of positivity, your freedom from
fear, that is the most threatening thing to the negative controllers
in this world, because this is a frequency war.
The one thing they don't want you to have is a positive, loving
feeling in your day-to-day lives; if they can keep you thinking
that you're at the brink of destruction, that nuclear missiles are
ready to incinerate the Earth, that the economy is ready to
collapse, that your government is ready to herd you off into
concentration camps.
They've whipped up this fever to such an extent that people are
bringing armed weapons to gatherings where the President is
because now Fox News wants you to think that Obama is the
same old thing.
500
I don't care if that is what you believe or not, but any time that
Fox News is telling me something is true, I'm inclined to think it's
not true, based on their past history. Can I get an "Amen" on that?
[applause/ hoots]
It's a little bit disturbing when you start watching Bill O'Reilly
and Glenn Beck and they're saying exactly the same things as all
your favorite conspiracy websites. That's not good, that's not
what we want, because Fox is a corporate entity. It is a
propaganda organ.
It's also important to understand that many of the conspiracy sites
have been seeded with propaganda. These are not independent
bloggers that are actually trying to raise money and do an honest
living. These are people that are funded by the Pentagon and the
NSA. We've had extensive discussions with people about this,
who are insiders.
So what's happening now is that because, as a planet, we have not
loved ourselves – we have been stuck in this self-loathing and
this self-condemnation and this fear of our own potential, this
fear of our power – the universe has not sent us these majestic,
loving, cosmic leaders who are all-knowing and all-powerful and
can be trusted with the warmth and innocence of a young child.
They have sent us vicious killers who will do nothing but spare
no expense to rape us, to steal every cent of our money. That's
what happens in the universe, but it only happens until you don't
need the lesson.
If you learn to love yourself, do those negative people still get
fixated into your life to such an extent that that's all you ever
have? No.
If you're one of these people who has been through self-loathing
and moved into a positive self-concept and self-esteem, if you
have learned the power of "No", as opposed to the power of
“Now”, and you can say "No" to somebody trying to manipulate
you, then all of sudden, you're not shackled to this feeling of
obligation to someone who is being grotesquely unfair.
You now have the wherewithal to speak your mind, to say your
piece, to get your needs met, even if it means that it's going to
upset someone. Because if someone has denied you the respect
and the sovereignty and love that you deserve as a perfect child
of God, then you deserve to protect yourself from that person.
You deserve to love yourself enough that you claim your right to
exist.
The universe sees that you've learned your lesson. Now, the
people that would have taken away your freedom, and would
have taken away your sovereignty, can no longer do so, because
even one flicker of light in the darkness is enough to show you
the layout of the room.
We've had enough of that now, that there is a massive awakening
going on.
Project Camelot – and I was a part of this – happened to get
involved in the center of this swine flu vaccination conspiracy.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
We had a situation unfold onstage in Zürich between myself and
another witness who was arguing in favor of vaccinations and is
actually a former operative for Majestic, which is the UFO
working group arm of the neoconservative Republican New
World Order faction of the world elite.
So, he's telling you: You should get the vaccine. Now, granted,
there is a great deal of science to suggest that vaccines do confer
immunity. We are not disagreeing with that.
But we are also considering the testimony of people like Jane
Burgermeister, a well-known mainstream journalist who
happened to go alternative when she started to find out that
Baxter Pharmaceuticals, as you all know, had released a vaccine
and -- thank God -- these people in Norway injected it into some
rats before they gave it to people, and the rats all got bird flu and
died.
Oops! How did that happen? [giggles for effect] I don't know
how that happened. Did we do that? No, of course not.
So look, you also have people in the government who are not
high enough to know that this swine flu thing might have been
manufactured and they have a very legitimate concern about the
swine flu.
It's being kept secret, but they do believe that this could mutate
like it did in 1918, which, you get sick the first time it's not that
bad, but when you get sick the second time and everybody is
dying -- millions of people are dying. That's the theory.
Let's bear in mind that in 1918 the world was nowhere near as
civilized as it is now. Sanitation was much less. In order for you
to have any of these flu, regardless of what they are... get your
health down in a negative way, your immune system has to be
depleted.
What's the biggest thing in this new science I'm going to teach
you about that depletes your immune system? NEGATIVE
THOUGHTS!
So, if they can keep you in fear, which means that you hate the
government, you hate the President, you hate what's happening to
your kids in school, you hate the economy, you hate the Federal
Reserve. If you're angry and you're fearful all the time, and then
they stick out a little virus, guess what happens to you? You get
the virus.
A virus is a frequency-based entity. As you see in my 2012
Enigma video, polio, rubella, all these various viruses have
geometric structure, which is wave particle structure. Geometry
can flip around into the time field and become a wave.
Budakovski, which you're going to see in this presentation,
proved that the wave structure of a disease is enough to infect
healthy tissue in a hermetically sealed container. You can take
the wave structure of a disease, zap it through a hermetically
sealed container, and have those cells inside the container catch
the disease.
A disease is a disease of the mind which has, as its medium of
transference, the consciousness field. That's how you get sick. It's
501
by going out of integrity. The nutritional component is secondary
to that.
When you're in an area where everybody is depressed because
their living conditions are very difficult, they're going to get sick
a lot more, because they're so negative.
So, I ask you this, if you can respect yourself enough to no longer
let these people into your life on a personal level, is there a
Hundredth Monkey effect that happens to the planet? Of course.
Of course! That's what's happening right now.
What I said on this panel last night, what I said on the radio show
that I just did with Project Camelot on Thursday, what I'm
preparing to say on my website, is that we are now at a point
where we have graduated.
I was told this a year ago. I was actually starting to be told this
two years ago. It's now happened.
We have graduated from the need to have the New World Order
running the show. It's over. It's going to be over within less than a
year.
[applause]
I'm not trying to be psychic. I'm talking in facts. I'm talking about
the simple fact that you cannot lie to people who know the truth.
What does a lie require to exist? It requires an absence of
information. It requires you not knowing that it's a lie. Because if
you're being lied to and you know that it's a lie, then it's not a lie.
It becomes an obvious, ridiculous gaff that this person is making.
It becomes a situation that can be remedied because you can start
laughing when that person tells you a lie. Because you know the
truth.
We are watching the derivatives system, the Ponzi scheme and
international bankers being ripped apart because the other
countries are tired of playing the game. They now have more
economic power than the old European white men that run the
New World Order and the Illuminati – they no longer have the
leverage to be able to do what they are doing.
What I propose to you on an even more intrinsic level is that this
is all something that appears to be happening as a result of natural
progressions of events.
But on another level, it is an energetic phenomenon which is
being programmed to occur by a movement into a higher
energetic frequency. That frequency is making us more present
with ourselves.
The best thing you can do for the planet, the best thing you can
do to save the children, to avoid the swine flu, to protect yourself
and your finances, and to make a better world for future
generations, is to stay in that state of positive, uplifting peace and
gratitude. Can I get an "Amen" on that?
[applause] Thank you.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
And I don't profess that I'm the guy you go to for the answers.
You can send me your emails. I'm happy to read them. I read all
my emails.
But this is something that each of us are doing. I've only
identified an effect that is happening to everyone. If you want to
go religious for a minute, the Second Coming of the Christ, or the
Messianic return, is something that is happening to everyone.
I was talking to Jordan [Maxwell] over dinner with Bill and
Kerry the other night, and he was telling me that if you really go
back into the original Old Testament documentation, that the
Messianic figure is not one person. It represents this change into
a whole new way of being.
So, now he's got me convinced that I've got to go looking for that
data myself. He has reason to believe it's true, and I'm sure he's
right, but I need to find my own facts. I don't wait for somebody
else to come and teach me something. If I hear something that I
like, I go look and I find out for myself.
I was told from my own guidance, which is dreams and visions
and prophetic information, that there was going to be a great
change happening to the Earth and the Solar System. I didn't just
nod my head like a subservient slave to some Higher Power and
say, Yes, you're right, You're right, oh lovely master. I will do
what you say.
I said, No, I can't believe that.
I can't believe that the whole world is going to change on an
energetic level that will make what we're in now seem like the
most miserable depression, by comparison. That the life that we
have now will become 100 times more harmonious. In which
things like instantaneous telepathy, levitation, telekinesis, healing
and flying are so effortless that it's as easy to do as raising and
lowering the diaphragm to make your lungs breathe. It requires
no extra effort.
That seems to be what's going on. There's all these people that we
have in Earth's history from a variety of cultures - including
Jesus. And if you don't want to believe in Jesus really existing,
there's plenty of other cultures you can go to look for so-called
Ascended Masters... they're out there; guys that have these
abilities, guys that do these amazing things.
502
All that represents is somebody who is a little bit farther ahead
than you are... not too much.
We know that the ETs that are visiting us are almost entirely
human. The widest divergence from a human look that you're
ever going to get is the so-called Gray.
The majority of humans - and we're getting more and more
whistleblowers coming forward and telling us the same thing: the
ETs are our family. They look like us, they have similar types of
voices that we do, although they may not use them anymore
because telepathy works much better and much faster.
This [indicating speaking] is like a dial-up modem. It sucks,
okay? [laughter] If I could telepathically speak to you... PFFT.
Sorry. [blows gently into mic] Foo -- how's that?
If I could telepathically speak to you and just give you the
download, BOOM, you'd just get the whole thing and I can walk
off. Thank you very much, good night! And I'm done.
It's already happening isn't it? I'm giving you holographic plates.
What do we know about a holographic plate? You cut it up into
little pieces; you shine lasers into each one of those pieces and
what happens? Do you see one side of the hologram? You see the
whole hologram! Just maybe just a little bit dimmer.
So what I'm doing is I'm giving you all these little pieces which
seem to be very interdisciplinary. I'm talking about diet, I'm
talking about health, I'm talking about politics, I'm talking about
science.
But I'm talking about the same thing. I'm talking about you.
What is your identity? What… Is… Your… Identity?
Is it your body? No. Is it this room around you right now? That's
part of it. Your body is part of it. The people sitting next to you in
this auditorium, or if you're watching this on the Internet, the
computer screen that you're looking at -- that's part of you.
The chair that's touching your bottom is part of you, it's your
identity. When you walk on the ground, the ground and the Earth
is also walking against you, not just you walking against the
ground.
When you go outside and you see the blue skies, and you see the
clouds, and you see the birds, and you see the trees, and you hear
the wind blowing through the trees, that's you. That's who you
are.
Energetically we can prove that. Energetically we can prove that
all the cells in your body change every seven years. Who you are
right now, this body that you have, even if you have this big
nasty wart on your face or something, that wart has been
completely re-done over seven years of time.
Okay, fine. What does that mean? That means that the energy
that made you change every seven years flowed through you, but
it didn't get stuck there. It kept on going.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Is it not true that the air that you're breathing right now as I talk
to you has potentially been shared by every person in human
history? That's pretty nasty if you're a germophobe person, isn't
it? [laughter]
Every person in the world's history has breathed the air that
you're breathing. It's going around and around and around and
around. It may be getting cleaned, but all the energy is there and
you can trace it back. That can be scientifically proven, easily.
So what about you? Who are you? Who are you, really? If the
energy field that makes your consciousness is interpenetrated
with other peoples' consciousness, and we can prove that, then
who are you?
Are you just this ego? Are you just this part of yourself that feels
like you're lacking something?
Because the body needs things to survive. The body needs
sanitation. If you don't shower it for a while, it's going to start
smelling pretty nasty. If you don't go to the bathroom, you're
going to get sick and you'll eventually die.
If you don't eat something, you're going to starve to death. If you
don't drink something, you're going to dehydrate to death.
The body is fragile. It can be cut; it can be having broken bones.
You can have hair loss, skin problems.
Everything can go wrong with the body, and therefore, when the
body feels pain, you feel pain and it seems like your identity is
now in jeopardy because the body is so identified with the
identity, we assume our identity is the body. But we now have the
scientific proof that that's not true.
So your identity ultimately is the Earth – The Gaia Hypothesis,
James Lovelock.
Your identity ultimately is the Sun – that which created all the
particles and molecules that make you who you are now.
Your identity is the Galaxy. Your identity is the Universe. The
energy that makes the Universal Mind is you – it's just in a
slower, holographically fragmented form, like that prism I said is
rotating and all these little rainbows are there. That's all it is,
that's all you are.
But, that is everything you need to be because that proves that
you are the light, you are the love, you are the One Infinite
Creator.
That's all you ever have been, that's all you ever will be, and
that's more than enough, because what that means is that you
have limitless potential.
There is nothing special about me. The only thing that is different
is that I'm very dedicated to doing what I'm doing, and I'm getting
in touch with that part of myself that has access to the higher
consciousness, and it makes me more and more an embodiment
of who I am.
503
The more that you get in touch with the Higher Self, with your
true cosmic identity, the more that you become one of the Living
Master Geniuses on this planet.
If you had any idea of the scope of what you COULD be if you
truly access your potential, it would floor you because every
single one of us has the potential to be a Messianic figure, to be
the savior of the world.
We all have that potential and we're all doing it to varying
degrees as we start awakening.
[applause] Well, thank you.
Look, I could yak about this all day but we've got a lot of slides
to do, so let's do some slides.
[slide reads: “Interplanetary Climate Change: NASA's Hottest
Secret”]
The Galaxy is pumping out these waves of energy, which are
now changing the Solar System, and we're going to talk about
that in very concrete terms. You're going to see all the proof for
that.
The fossil record is undergoing 26-million-year cycles as well as
62-million-year cycles, as you see in this graph here. What's
causing that to happen? All life on Earth spontaneously changing
in even intervals of time?
Oh, it's got to be some big rock out there that's spinning around.
62 million years is not some big rock. That's like a third of the
orbit of the entire Galaxy, basically. It's about a fourth because
the Galaxy is about a 240-million-year orbit. 62 is about, roughly
speaking, it's a quarter. It might be exactly a quarter... that might
be the point.
What did the Ancients know, and why must we remember now?
What do pyramids really do? Pyramids are harnessing the source
field. We're going to get into that in a minute.
We know, and we can prove now, that Atlantean civilization was
nothing new. These pyramids around the world are not something
that was built in conventional history. It was built before then.
Off the western tip of Cuba, as you see in this map here, at this c
Guanahacabibes - I can't even pronounce that - the
Guanahacabibes Peninsula, right off the tip of that on the western
tip of Cuba; you go a mile down. Well, so it's not quite a mile,
but it's a long ways down under the surface of the ocean and
down there you find a submerged city, as this link says on BBC
News.
This is the only officially-released side scan sonar photograph of
what was actually seen down there. Does that look like random
pieces of sand on the sea floor? No!
This is what it actually looks like if you reconstruct it in a
computer. That's a computer graphic rendering of what you just
saw right here. Is everybody with me? That's not something that
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
just showed up as a result of random geologic processes. That's a
human-built structure.
This area could not have been above the ground, and above sea
level, prior to 11,000 years ago.
Paulina Zelitsky is here in a cave in Cuba, which used to be the
Atlantean highlands, looking at inscriptions on the cave wall.
They're precisely the same as inscriptions that they saw being
painted on the walls of these submerged cities that they sent
submersible submarines probes into.
What you're seeing here is a diagram of the energy fields in the
Solar System which are, of course, concentric rings emanating
out from the center of the Sun.
They also saw these cross formations painted on inscriptions in
these submerged cities.
Now here is the only other photograph that she's ever released.
This is a still-frame from a much longer film where she is flying
a submersible through this city.
What do you see in the window of her monitor? Would you like
to see it more up close?
That's not just a little piece of sand on the bottom of the ocean.
That is a pyramid. Would you like to see a pyramid in Egypt that
it looks very similar to?
Here we go. This is called the Bent Pyramid of Dahshur, on the
right. It's almost identical to what you see on the left, and that is
submerged off the western tip of Cuba.
It's down there right now. What are we doing by not going and
looking at it?
Why did they sell this story to National Geographic and it just so
happened to never make it out in 2003? National Geographic did
a 360-degree contract. They bought all the rights. It was supposed
to be the biggest thing ever to come out in 2003, and guess what
happened? Pfft, nothing.
Well, what we have now is evidence that somebody out there
who is responsible for building this seal into the dollar, knew that
these pyramids harnessed some sort of energy field, because what
you're seeing is clearly an energetic, non-physical structure going
down on to the top of the pyramid here.
[slide reads: Do Ancient Sites Harness 'Energy'?]
This grants the next question. I talked about the time field, I
talked about the Russians. Is there a technology in which you can
build something that will take this natural energy that makes
physical matter that is flowing through everything and harness
that energy in a given direction? The answer is “Yes”. You're
going to have some fun now. You're going to get to look at some
things that are already well known to exist and I'm going to let
you just think about them.
504
The first is menhirs, which are standing stones. I want you to bear
in mind that the height of a human being is only a little bit taller
than where the top of where the shadow is in this photograph.
These are enormous, enormous stones.
Do you think that maybe these enormously tall stones were built
for a reason? Do you think that maybe these ancient peoples were
putting them there because they got something out of it? Is it
merely a religious symbol, or was it put there because it had a
technological usefulness?
Do they put these headstones over your grave because it's just
decorative? Or are they hoping that the headstone is going to
have some sort of energetic effect that will keep your body
preserved and usher you on into the afterlife?
Can these stones actually create ripples of energy that will raise
our frequency of consciousness, that will make us feel better, that
will make us healthier, that will make everything around us more
harmonious?
If you think about the possibility that these stones could be put in
the position and change the way that your mind works, then
you're thinking in the right direction.
They're enormous, and it would be a lot of work to do that just
for some religious symbolism. It would be much more apropos to
believe that people would go to all this trouble if they could use it
for something.
The next thing we're going to look at is dolmens. These are stone
cellars.
What if you were able to build a little stone cellar, a little stone
structure, get inside of it and have it harness energy so that while
you're sitting in there, you meditate and it raises your vibration?
It raises the consciousness frequency of your mind while you're
inside and all you have to do is sit under this absolutely colossal
stone that if it fell, would crush you flat instantaneously.
[laughter] Very precariously.
This is Kilclooney in Ireland. Look at that thing! Look at how
that gigantic stone that weighs more than two 18-wheelers, at
least, if not much more. If that little guy were to just fall off of
the tips of the other stones, he would crush you flat. And yet,
there he is, and with all the earthquakes and with all the Earth
changes that have gone on, it is still balanced precariously, right
up there.
Here's another one balanced precariously. Why would they go to
so much trouble? Do you really think a bunch of guys are just
going to do this because it's cool? Do you really think they would
go to the trouble of getting themselves crushed in trying to
precariously balance these very, very massive stones just because
it's a fun thing to do? I don't think so.
In this case you see that actually part of the stone has broken off
and fallen onto the ground. But the point is the same. The point
is, look at what's going on there. You go underneath, you
meditate and you get charged up.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Now this is an example of a more advanced structure where a
wall is built around you. Once you go inside that wall, you now
have a much, much higher energetic charge; and you've got a
little breathing hole.
This is another one from the side.
[someone in the audience asks for the location of the photos]
Ah, you, wouldn't you like to know? No, actually I did this in a
rush and I don't know where all these locations are, but it's easy
to find online. Just look for dolmens and you'll start to find them.
Go to Google pictures, Google images. Google dolmen, the word
dolmen, D-O-L-M-E-N, you'll start finding these things.
Barrows is the next thing. Barrows are mounds. The idea here is
that you actually drill a hole into the ground, underneath the
mound. There is a round chamber inside the mound - this is well
known - you go in there and you have a little party and you
meditate. It's enough now that you can bring in a group of people.
It does the same thing as a dolmen except you're burrowing into
the Earth now. So, here's some barrows. And this one, of course,
you see how well-structured it is; Silbury Hill being the biggest
one.
Now, here, the entrance is... of course, the English government
has been kind enough to put iron bars in front of it so you can't go
in there. They don't want you to be able to use this technology
anymore, and they're probably worried about finding condoms
and stuff inside, frankly. [laughs] But that's not what it's built for,
necessarily. Maybe it was.
Some of these barrows are longer, and you also have the Mound
Builders in the US. You have all these other things like Serpent
Mound in Ohio that you can go to and see this in the US; I'm only
doing the English ones right now.
Henges is the one that everybody is so familiar with and
everybody loves. Because now you get standing stones like the
single ones you were seeing before except now there are certain
areas where the energetics are so high that long rows of stones
are being put together because it's going to be even more
powerful.
The sheep really like being near these stones. In fact, animal life
really can feel this more than we can.
These were not put there by accident. And again, in this case, you
have a combination of a barrow and a henge. You have the henge
at the front, here, and if you go through that path down the
middle, you go into the barrow, and you go inside and you
meditate.
Maybe the henge in the front helps focus the energy that's
flowing through the center of the barrow.
Here's another henge, out there just hanging out in the middle of
the English countryside. Some of them are in France; some of
505
them are in Germany. They're in Ireland, too. They're all over the
place. Here's another one.
Here's another one, here's another example.
One of the most impressive, which unfortunately has been lost to
the ravages of time to a large degree, is Avebury. Now, what
you're going to see here, if you look closely, is that all of these
different stones, all of these different little dots that you see as
you go along here, represent individual stones.
This looks like a giant serpent. Here's the head, and here's what
it's eaten, in its stomach... if you look up at the top in the middle
there, there's two little rings of stones inside. That represents the
meal and then here's the tail down at the bottom.
Down here is one of the barrows. This is Silbury Hill, the best
barrow of all, the most famous one and the most well-structured
one.
Look at the geometry. Look at how it's a perfect equilateral
triangle between the head of the snake, the tail of the snake,
Silbury in the middle, and then here's the area up here.
Now what this was for, this was a gigantic technology. This is a
machine. It's a machine built, based on... As you look around it,
the contours of the mountains, the contours of the land, so that a
bunch of people get inside this area right here and they have a big
party and they all meditate and chant and run around and do fun
stuff, and they're changing consciousness for themselves and for
the planet.
That's what this stuff was built for. It's a consciousness
technology. Of course, Stonehenge being the greatest example of
all; these Sarsen Stones as they're called are gigantic in size and
very beautiful to look at.
What you may not realize is that, at one time, there was a whole
ring of them, like this. That's what it used to look like.
All the stones that have fallen have been identified in the soil,
because the more they fall down over time, the more that it rains
each year, they fall further and further into the ground. But
they've all been found. So this is known to be true, I'm not
making this up.
What we know is that Stonehenge was used to identify Solstices,
and when the Moon and the Sun were traveling, and what would
happen, because during certain planetary alignments, certain
times of the year, these zones on the Earth became much more
energetically active.
Are these ancient structures connected? The answer is “Yes”,
through the science of Ley Lines. This was done by Sir Alfred
Watkins and we're going to talk a little bit about him.
He found in the 1920s that ancient holy sites lined up in straight
lines, which he called leys. Sites from extremely different ages,
millennia apart, were all aligned with one another. This includes
the Neolithic Age (which is the Stone Age), the Bronze Age, the
Iron Age, and the Christian era.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Now, he would use this camera to basically be able to look across
long distances and see if things were in a straight line. What you
see here is the summary of the massive amount of research that
he did. What you see here is, every single one of these words is a
different ancient sacred site.
Nobody ever comes out in the open and says, Oh, by the way, all
these sacred sites are built in a straight line. It took a guy like
Alfred Watkins to analyze this and discover it for himself.
But guess what a lot of these things are? They're cathedrals. Do
you think that maybe the Knight Templars knew that there was
something going on? Hm. Do you think that maybe they knew to
build on that line and not to build off the line?
Do you think that maybe if you build a church which acts as a
funnel for this consciousness energy, that if you build that domed
roof for the church out of stone, over that line, that it is going to
harness more of this energy field from the universe and that, in so
doing, it's going to become a resonator so that when you go to
church you're going to be experiencing a revelation, a higher
consciousness?
Do you think that maybe the stained glass window and the
Gregorian chant music are creating harmonics that help you
harmonize with the field? Absolutely.
So, here's some people from his Stonehenge club, the Straight
Track Club as it was called, the Ley Line hunters.
Here is a barrow that had trees growing around it.
Here is a similar ring of trees without a barrow. This is a natural
Earth effect caused by these energy fields, because they do have
circular formations. Well, it is a hyperdimensional effect. These
are harnessing hyperdimensional energy, because the
hyperdimensional energy is what makes the matter that is
building the stones.
Let me say that again. The matter that makes these stones, the
stone itself, the actual hard stuff, is built from hyperdimensional
energy; energy from the time field that's flowing into our space-
time.
That's what, according to Dr. Dewey Larson, all matter is built
from is this hyperdimensional exchange between three-
dimensional time and three-dimensional space. That's all it is.
So of course you're going to get time anomalies. But it's also the
energy that builds you. It builds your DNA. It builds your body,
so when you get more of it flowing through you, you're going to
have more health and vitality.
Because it's the energy of your consciousness, because it IS
consciousness, it is also going to give you a more advanced
intellect.
So, the way that we can actually prove that this global grid, these
energy lines, has a hyperdimensional effect that can completely
pull you out of our three-space of length, width, and height -- the
three-dimensional world -- is with the research of Ivan
Sanderson.
506
He investigated a massive number of different disappearances of
ships and airplanes. What he did is, he took everything from the
dawn of aviation, going all the way back to the first airplanes,
and even before that for the marine records. He looked for every
case of disappearance since planes were discovered.
He found that the majority of what he was finding all clustered
around twelve points on the Earth's surface. That's completely
unprecedented. That is not mainstream information. It was done
in the 1960s.
This guy should have been treated with as much respect as
somebody like Edison or Einstein, or Alexander Graham Bell or
the Wright brothers, because this is a huge discovery. Twelve key
points around the world in which planes and ships are
spontaneously disappearing.
He didn't have anything in mind when he started doing this. All
he did is he looked up each one and he gave it a push-pin, push-
pin, push-pin. And where were all the push-pins at the end? They
were in twelve places.
Even stranger is that the twelve places are not just haphazardly
scattered around the Earth – they're all equally distant from each
other. They're harmonically balanced with one another. They're
all the same distance apart when you look to the ones that are
adjacent to each other.
If you connect the dots, you get a sacred geometry, which
happens to be the same geometry that's in the polio virus, the
same geometry that's in many other viruses at the quantum level,
including HIV.
But it's not just a negative, toxic thing like viruses; it's a very
positive thing that's the fundamental building block of physical
matter, and biology, and life. It's an icosahedron.
Now, here we go. This is the Bermuda Triangle. Obviously you
know about this one. Believe me when I tell you that there are
many, many airplane disappearances that cannot be explained,
where they've never found an oil slick or flotsam on the surface
of the water. All they find is missing plane.
It's on the radar one minute and it's gone the next. There is no oil
slick, there's no wreckage, nothing. And they don't find anything
on the surface, on the bottom of the ocean floor, either. It's gone.
What happened is, it's passing through a portal. It's passing
through a time gate – a gate into another frequency of reality; a
parallel universe in which time is three dimensional.
Here are the twelve points that he discovered with his push-pins.
[referring to slide: Ivan Sanderson's Vile Vortices - showing a
world map with triangles in a pattern] Take a close look.
You see the Bermuda Triangle off the coast of Florida. You see
another one near Brazil in South America. You see another one
here, on the land in Africa. Another one down here by Sri Lanka.
You see one that's the Himalayan mountains... all that crazy stuff
like the Master and Teachings of the far East [Life and Teaching
of the Masters of the Far East], Tibet, all that stuff up there.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
You've got some that are out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean
here, which is a real lonely area to get stuck in. The Easter
Islands is down here. Then you got one here which is the Devil's
Triangle. That's officially been declared a disaster area by the
Japanese government. They do not allow you to fly or sail
through this area.
You also have two bracketing Australia, and that's very
important. Australia, if you notice, is the only continent that is
completely pinned between -- actually, four.
Because what he doesn't show you on this map is that there's one
down here on the South Pole, one up here on the North Pole. So
you've got one, two, three, four... Australia is geometrically
perfectly in the center of four of the most important nodes. So
there's a lot of crazy stuff.
And the exact geometric center of the nodes happens to be right
where Pine Gap is, which is one of the biggest bases where all
this stuff is being done.
You connect the dots together, you get your icosahedron, which
you see here on the left is the geometry. This is what it looks like
superimposed over the Earth's surface, on the right.
[next slide]
Now, this is where it gets even more interesting. These three
Russian scientists, and everybody laughs when I say their names:
Goncharov, Morozov, and Makarov [Nicolai Goncharov,
Vyachelslav Morozov, Valery Makarov] See you're not laughing
because I told you it's not cool to laugh, so like, now you don't
want to laugh. [laughter]
What they did is they went through and they looked at every
single line that was discovered by Sir Alfred Watkins; remember
the guy that did the Ley Lines? We were just talking about that.
How all these churches and all these Neolithic sites and Iron Age
sites and Bronze Age sites... they're all in straight lines.
Well these Russian dudes took every single one of those things
that Alfred Watkins discovered, and they took every single
507
OTHER structure they could find around the world - the Great
Pyramid, Stonehenge, Easter Island, temples and pagodas in
Asia, China, Japan.
They looked at every single weird, monolithic (which means big
stone structure) they could find anywhere in the world and they
found that every single one of them fit onto a single grid which
was very simple to construct.
All you had to do is start with the same twelve points that Ivan
Sanderson found where these matter time-space warps would
happen, take those twelve points, connect the dots just like I did...
that is the icosahedron.
But then, the icosahedron has a curious property. It is a geometry
that, because it is perfect, can be inverted. It is a mathematical
thing you can do where you flip the geometry inside-out, literally.
That's what it would be. If you add the structure, like made out of
wires, you could actually flip it inside-out and rebuild it, but
build it backwards. Build the geometric inverse of it.
All you've got to do is inverse the icosahedron and make it so that
it fits together with the original icosahedron and you get this grid.
Here it is. So, I want to point out to you again, because this is a
little bit confusing if you don't know what you're looking at, that
all of your original points are still there. Here's the Bermuda
Triangle, here's the one on the southern tip, here's the two that I
was talking about around Australia, the one that's up there, here is
the one at the South Pole. So, they're all still there, but now
you've added in the geometric opposite.
If you simply build this geometry, you now have a diagram that
shows you where every single ancient site in the entire world has
been constructed on. Over 4,000. They couldn't find a single one
that was anything impressive that wasn't built on this grid. Why
do you think that is?
If you have a wire that is going to go to something that powers an
electrical appliance, are you going to put the wire under your
armpit and expect that it's going to work? No. You plug it into the
wall.
If you build a pyramid and you don't build it on this grid, do you
think that it's going to work? Not anywhere near as good.
You've got to build it where the energy is. That's why with these
cold fusion guys, they're looking at the cold fusion reactions.
They build devices that actually work in some places, but then
they bring it somewhere else, it doesn't work anymore.
It's on 60 Minutes, they talked about this. Well, we don't
understand. Oh, it must not work. Then the scientists say, Well,
the whole technology is wrong.
No. It's because, if you're on the grid, it's going to work.
It's very simple. Let's put all of the cold fusion devices on the
grid where they work, then we'll wire them up and we're done.
Just build it where it needs to go.
It's very simple. You have energy in one place, and it's not
somewhere else. It happens to be the energy of the time field.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Well, look at what else you got here. You got the Mid-Atlantic
Ridge. This is the volcanic ridge that defines what's pushing apart
the two continents.
If you start looking at the next grid which is the Becker-Hagens
grid, they've basically taken the same thing... the black dots are
Ivan Sanderson’s twelve vortexes, again, all the matter-time-
space warping going on there. You have all the points of the
geometric inverse of the icosahedron.
But what they do is they actually take two icosahedrons and they
put one out of phase with the other. Rather than inverting it, they
just take a second icosahedron and make it a little bit out of
phase.
We have a phone ringing. That's a sign. Do you guys need a
break? [audience responds] No? See, we're having mutiny, Kerry.
What should we do? The troops don't know what to do.
[David listens as Kerry speaks offstage]
Okay. All right, we'll do a short meditation and mentally clear the
room. That's why we got the cell phone ringing and distracting
me.
I would ask that you just take a couple minutes, take a nice deep
breath now. If you need to use the restroom, please go because
this is going to be enough time that you can actually have a
break, if you need one. I won't be offended, I promise.
Some of you are hardcore and are just going to sit through this,
that's cool. Either way is fine, I won't judge you. We'll just laugh
about you once you're out of the room. I'll make jokes about you.
[laughter]
Let's go into the infinite peace of this moment. You may want to
close your eyes. You may want to spend a little time relaxing.
Just give yourself over to the loving presence of the cosmos. Let
yourself feel the articulations of intelligent infinity which speak
to you in the moments between moments.
Give yourself an opportunity to relax into the full awareness of
who you are. Take comfort in the beauty of you. Take pleasure in
the Divine Energy that makes you who you are.
As you tune in deeper and deeper to yourself, you become a
pyramid, you become a standing stone. You become a lens of
light for cosmic energy to flow through.
It doesn't require you to spend any money. It doesn't require you
to have any advanced degree, or university education. It doesn't
require you to drink anything, eat anything, take any pill, smoke
anything.
All it requires is peace. All it requires is tranquility. All it
requires is the knowingness that you are more than your physical
body, that you are a Divine Light, a glorious gift from the
cosmos.
508
That any and all negativity that has hung around you can be
cleansed away much like a traditional housewife would sweep
out the house with a broom. With all the doors open, the dust
comes flying out. The floors become clean.
It becomes easier and easier to walk around undisturbed, to
appreciate the bounty of your own space, the bounty of your own
sovereign identity.
For when you learn to love yourself, you can have those
boundaries, you can sweep out the dust in your own life as we're
now doing on the planet.
The very air that passes through your lungs is the living conduit
of universal light that carries you like a magic carpet to lands
unseen that float in the sky, lands that are beyond physicality.
You have every opportunity to reach out and find those lands.
You have the glory of being yourself in this moment. You have
an opportunity to expand your awareness, so that that mind that
thinks through the hardware of the brain is not just the mind of
your personal ego but the Universal Mind that is much more than
just your own personal self.
It is the Self with a capital S. Let's experience that Self, because
as you do, the energy flows through you and it is an energy that
creates an impenetrable shield that no negativity can penetrate.
It is a living vessel of light, the chalice of the Holy Grail that
allows you to be perfectly sovereign in mind and in body and in
spirit. By living through that consciousness, you live in the
presence of your everlasting awareness, your eternal identity,
which is never going to be terminated by the loss of a body. It is
much more than that.
Your mind is information and the information has identity and
the identity is the universe.
So, now I will start to bring you back into the conscious mind.
Most of our friends have gone to the bathroom now, so we're all
back in the room.
I'd like you to see again this grid. Open your eyes and let's
meditate on that grid for a minute. You're seeing the underlying
geometric framework of the mind of the Earth. This is how it has
been built and this is what structures the continents the way they
are.
Look at how the coast of Rio de Janeiro is pushed in by this node.
Look at how the whole shape of South America is defined by the
lines that surround it. There's many, many examples of this.
This is the stretching pattern that the Earth makes as it expands.
You can see island chains that are part of circles. Here is another
island chain that is part of a larger circle.
Just connect those nodes together. Look at the two points in the
middle, it looks like cell mitosis. That's not an accident.
[Listening and responding to someone talking to David] Oh,
really? Well, that's interesting. I was just informed that there was
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
a UFO sighting right outside the building at the time that the cell
phone went off. [David laughs, audience responds] Believe it or
not. But, ah, that's pretty cool.
Well, thank you guys for showing up. Actually, there is a whole
bunch of them on the ceiling here. [laughs]
[applause]
Cool. All right. Hopefully you're a little bit less hypnotized now
and we'll get back into enough of a thinking mind that you can
follow me.
We proved the ancient sites harnessed useable energy. The
Russian pyramid research holds the key. The Russians, after the
fall of the Iron Curtain, had all of their military-industrial
complex, all of their infrastructure, and they had the laboratories
available to be able to build pyramids and study what they would
do. And that's what they did.
Here are actual photographs of the Russian pyramids. Check this
out. These are enormous, these are little, bitty, those little dots
down there? Those are people, okay? So look at that, look at the
size of that thing.
Here is somebody posing in front of it. Here's what it looks like
on the inside. It's made of PVC plastic pipes with a fiberglass
facing.
Sometimes they are built near oil fields, as you can see here.
Sometimes they were built out in the countryside. That is a
smaller one; here he is posing in front of it.
Now, some very, very strange things happened when they did
this. They built one over an oil well. It would become 25% more
productive and the oil that came out was 25% purer.
It would make poisonous chemicals no longer poisonous to the
body. They would become safe enough that you could dump it on
your skin or drink it and you were fine. I do not recommend that
you try this, okay? But that's what they said they found.
Diseases would be cured, even cancer. It's an energetic
phenomenon.
They had white, under-bred mice and they injected them with a
toxin that would normally destroy them. If 60 % of the mice died
from the toxin in the laboratory, when they put those same mice
under the pyramid, guess how many of them died? Only 6%. So
94% of all the mice injected with a lethal toxin that were put in
the pyramids that they built here, that you just saw, didn't die. Up
to 400% increase in the productivity of agricultural seeds. You
throw these seeds into the pyramid, guess what happens? You
grow the same plants but now they're 400% larger and they've got
better fruit; everything is better about them. So you can grow
super-seeds.
Strong electrical activity. You can put a little voltage pile, a little
battery, on top of the pyramid and it generates current. It's
fascinating.
509
Significant earthquake reduction. This is where you start seeing
how the Earth's energy fields are related to severe weather and
severe Earth changes.
If you build these pyramids, then guess what happens with
earthquakes? You don't get a big, giant quake anymore. You get a
bunch of little ones that don't cause any damage.
You also see an enormous column of energy hundreds of miles
wide around the pyramid. This is not electromagnetic energy.
This is the energy which the Russians can measure which they
call torsion fields, or the time field.
That energy column, that hundreds-of-miles-wide energy column
from one pyramid is enough to cause big storm fronts coming
through to kind of go around it like there is a big circle there.
They just WROOP! They go around it. It's crazy. It's been
proven.
What they also did is they took giant slabs of granite that they
were going to use to build these jail cells in Russia - that's a lot
better than an American jail cell, isn't it?
They take these granite slabs and they built 5,000 prisoners' cells
from these granite slabs and they watched these guys. They didn't
do anything else to their environment; they didn't do anything
else to their diet or their medication.
Now, one could argue, well, maybe the prisoners were really
happy that they had a nice granite cell that they could hang out in.
But that's not enough to explain what happened; because they had
a profound improvement in their attitude and behavior, including
substantial increase in addiction recovery from alcoholism and
drug abuse.
So, all these prisoners that are living in these jail cells that were
charged up with granite from the pyramid... and that's all that it
was... all their behavior starts improving because they're living
inside a harmonic resonating chamber. The granite crystals have
actually changed their structure.
If you think about how you magnetize an iron nail: You take a
piece of iron, right, like a nail, and you start stroking it with a
magnet. The more that you do that, eventually it becomes
magnetized and you can pick things up with it.
Well, we know that the reason why that works is that all the
molecules in the iron are now going north to south in their
electrical charge, in the same direction. That's what starts to cause
it to happen.
So we know that you can do it to metal. You don't see anything
different about the nail, but we know that it becomes magnetic
because the atoms are changing inside.
The pyramid does the same thing to crystals. You put the granite
crystals inside, the crystals change.
I don't have it in the slide show here, but another thing they did
was just to take a bunch of granite rocks and just throw them all
over the floor and leave them there. What they found was that, if
they came back after a few months - the granite is usually a
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
reddish color - they came back after a few months and there were
rings in the rocks they had just thrown on the ground and the
rings were white-ish.
The granite changed color. It actually changed from a reddish
color to a white-ish color in a ring. That's how much these fields
change crystals and their actual structure.
When you get to the point of earthquakes and how earthquakes
can be changed and reduced by the pyramids, and how human
behavior is improved by the pyramids – you just put the prisoners
in those granite cells and they get much better – this proves that
our consciousness is tethered to the Earth's consciousness.
You harness the Earth's consciousness with the pyramid that acts
like a funnel for this energy. The energy that builds each
molecule of the pyramid is an energy that is in you. So the energy
that makes you who you are can be harnessed in the pyramid just
by the fact that it is shaped that way.
There is an energy that flows into every atom in that pyramid,
and if the pyramid is a perfect sphere, then it's going to all flow in
the same way; but, if it's a funnel shape, it's going to flow in with
a directional current. That's all it is – it's a funnel. It's very, very
simple.
This proves the connection between our consciousness and
earthquakes, a connection between our consciousness and severe
weather, a strong likelihood that our consciousness is directly
affecting the Earth. That's a very important point.
Of course, the greatest pyramid of all is, not surprisingly, called
the "Great Pyramid". We know that when you go inside the Great
Pyramid, they have this sarcophagus that you lie in and the
ancient technique was that it would cause you to have this
meeting with your shadow, a projection of your shadow.
You go into an out-of-body consciousness, and you go into this
other realm which is time-space as we would now call it. You
encounter your shadow projection. If you can heal yourself,
which means if you embrace your shadow...
You know the best thing you can do if you're in a nightmare and
something is chasing you and you're terrified of it -- don't keep
running. Stop running, turn around and say: Who are you, and
what do you want? Don't be afraid at all; get rid of the fear.
What you'll find is that, if you're not afraid of it, you're going to
start seeing it change. The more that it changes, the more that
you'll see that it is yourself. When you realize that it's yourself,
you embrace it and there's this huge flash of white light – you
have this amazing experience and you wake up in tears.
Many people have reported this. That is the integration process
the pyramid is talking about, except in the pyramid it's so
powerful that you literally come out with ascended abilities. You
literally can do things that we would consider miracles, such as
telekinesis, levitation, instant healing, telepathy, etcetera.
Well... it's not everybody’s experience. Napoleon went into the
King's Chamber. What do you think happens to a guy like that
when he spends a night in the sarcophagus? This is what he wrote
510
after it happened: He was absolutely terrified. He had a horrible
night. He never wanted to go anywhere near it again.
So I ask you this, when the apple fell in front of Sir Isaac
Newton, was that the first time that gravity was working?
[laughs] No, it was the first time someone recognized that gravity
was working.
Is this presentation and the signs that we've been putting together
recently the first time that anybody has recognized that this is
working on Earth? No, right?
Because what? Pyramids – global grid – everybody built it on the
grid. Why did they build it on the grid? Because they saw the
apple fall, they knew there was an energy field responsible for
that. Except in this case it is not an apple falling, it's a
consciousness rising.
So have we seen the apple fall in modern times? The answer is
NO. We're trying to explain everything on electromagnetic
energy and we don't understand that there is an energy beneath
electromagnetic energy that's even more important.
[slide reads: Is There Really a "God" That Can Be Explained
Scientifically?]
This really becomes a scientific validation of the idea of a Higher
Power, that there is some Divine Intelligence that is more than
you and me in separated brain-pans, and there's nothing else that's
there. That's the old way of thinking.
The new way of thinking is that consciousness is a field and that
field must exist through the whole universe, because
consciousness is the basic behavior of matter. So matter is not
just in this Galaxy -- it's all over the place. It all seems to have all
the same, if not similar, rules; therefore consciousness is very
likely to be everywhere.
[slide reads: Crop Circles and 2012 - Messages From "God"?]
We're going to go back into 2012. Now, we've built a lot of
background for this, so let's go into 815 AD, which is actually the
first documented record of crop circles coming down.
Crop circles are not new. They have messages in them in the
form of pictures written into crops and those pictures will show
us that there is somebody out there who wants us to figure out a
puzzle, who wants us to solve a mystery.
815 AD: If you look at these lavish, sunny, lovely quarters, it's
actually very Gothic and gloomy. This is the Archbishop of
Lyons issuing an edict called Against the Foolish Opinion of the
Masses About Hail and Thunder.
People believed in "cloud ships" from a place they called
"Magonia". What do you think a cloud ship is? Do you think
that's a cloud?
No. Think about it. A cloud ship is not a cloud. A cloud ship is
something that they see flying in the air and they say: Well,
clouds fly in the air. It's a cloud ship.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
They believed that these cloud ships were flattening crops into
circles because the cloud ships says, Well, I'm going to protect
you from bad weather, but here is what you need to do for me. If
I'm going to protect you, then you need to let me flatten these
circles out in your crops.
It's kind of a weird deal to make with cloud ships but, what the
hell, that's what they thought was going on.
Agobard issued a prohibition against any locals taking seeds out
of the crop circles for pagan fertility rituals.
So what that means is that people were getting a bliss hit from the
energized crops. They would build little huts out of them and
stuff, and they would want to have a pagan fertility ritual in them
which, of course, means what were they doing inside the little
grass hut? Hm, I wonder. [laughter]
That was purely subconscious. I have no idea what I'm doing
there [rubs his index fingers together]. Or, I could go... [makes
suggestive gesture using microphone; audience laughs] No, there
is no subtext. I'm not giving you any subtext.
Obviously, what's going on is the farmers are getting really angry
because they're losing their crops. So the farmers start saying:
Hey you guys, stop doing this.
And they say: No, man. Check it out! The energy is amazing.
The farmers are like: Oh my God.
So back then, the church was basically the government, so they
go to the... basically, the equivalent of the government and they
say, Hey, look, okay, we've got to stop these people. So Agobard,
being also the Governor, basically, has to issue this prohibition.
Well, guess what it was all built around? It was built around crop
circles; perfect circles in the crop 1200 years ago. Are crop
circles new? No!
All right.
[slide: 1880 Illustration of Fairy Rings]
"Elferingewort" is a fairy ring - a ring of daisies caused by elves
dancing - a legend that dates to the 12th century. I found this on
Wikipedia, of all places. This is the people that are partying and
dancing and making the thing fall down in the angelic realm.
That is what they believed caused these rings, from 1880.
This is a strange story. Look at this. This is the equivalent of
headline news in 1678.
This is what happened: Somebody comes over to chop down a
farmer's crop. He's called a mower. The mower wanted a lot of
money. The farmer wasn't willing to pay that much, so the farmer
gets all pissed off and says, I'd rather have the Devil chop down
these crops than you, man.
That night, the farmer's in bed and the whole field lights up like
it's on fire. The perfect circle appeared in the crops the next
511
morning, as it says in this thing you just saw: So neatly mow'd
that no mortal man could have done it.
Well, now we believe it was a bunch of drunk guys walking
around, Eh, isn't this great? We're making a crop circle. [faking
British accent] That's not the way it worked back then. They were
smart enough to know that no person could have done this.
So this is the illustration. So, of course, if no person could have
done it, it's got to be the devil. It's obvious. Everybody knows
that. So, it's the devil.
[slide: The "Mowing Devil"; 1678 picture]
There he is, doing his little job: perp-perp-perp-perp-perp. He's in
no hurry; he's going around doing his thing.
[next slide: Dr. Robert Plot (1640-1696)]
Okay, now we have Dr. Robert Plot, who’s at the beginning of
the Renaissance, a very educated and enlightened scientist, who
was smart enough to look at the hip bone of a Megalosaurus and
see something entirely different. It's the world's first homoerotic
paleontologist because he saw the scrotum of a giant here. What a
boner that would be. [laughter]
All right. So what he did is he started to look at these crop circles
forming and he actually drew pictures of them in the 1600s.
These are his actual photographs.
These are not just "circles". That's a spiral. That looks like
somebody's ear with a sound wave going into it. And here is a
perfect square inside a perfect circle.
So Dr. Robert Plot's educated hypothesis was: Oh, well, there is a
piece of square wind, you see. The square wind is making a
square hole in the crops. [faking British accent]
That is actually not much better than what modern scientists are
trying to say for crop circles now, so nothing has changed for 400
years, unfortunately.
He also found that the soil underneath the crop circles was much
drier than ordinary, which smelled like moldy bread. But then
what does the guy do? He puts it in his mouth and he tastes it –
that's a dedicated scientist! Oh my God, it's horrible. Blah!
[faking British accent]
Except he found that it didn't taste bad, so what do we know this
is? This is all the water being zapped out of the soil; it's totally
dried out. That's a cosmic thing that happened. That’s
extraterrestrial technology.
Dr. Gil Levengood documented the same thing in the 1990s,
exactly the same thing, so it's still working the same way.
[slide: William Cyril Williams, late 1940s]
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
In the late 1940s, somebody witnessed a whirlwind touching
down and forming a circle in the corn; he believed it was wind. In
only three or four seconds, you have this perfect sharp-edged
circle that was very large, three or four meters wide, happen. It's
about 30 feet - not quite thirty feet, but it's big, like 15, 20 feet.
[slide: Bryce Bond / A Shuttlewood 1972]
August 1972 in Warminster, he hears a noise, something pushes
down the wheat. But check out the last line, what does it say?
The air was what? Completely still. There was nothing going on,
no wind that could have explained what happened here.
In front of my eyes I could see a great imprint taking shape. The
wheat was forced down in a clockwise direction. He hears a high-
pitched humming noise and the circle opens up like an oriental
fan unfolding.
Guess what guys? That's not weather, that's not wind, that's not a
bunch of drunk guys walking around stamping down the crops.
This guy witnessed it. We can put people in prison based on
eyewitness testimony. That's what he saw.
[next slide - view of crop circles]
Well, let's stop talking about them and start looking at them
because that's where it gets more fun. Here you have the original
type of circles you'd see, and then you start to get these patterns
of four, and there's a little one down here – that was originally
called Grapeshot.
[next slide]
These kinds of patterns start showing up all the time: Two circles
connected by a line with this little arch - sometimes it was there,
sometimes it wasn't - which, in pagan symbolism, is the pregnant
goddess. This is the pregnant belly; here's the head and here's the
arms.
But, of course, the circle makers couldn't be content by showing
us such primitive diagrams, so they came back a couple years ago
and they did this:
[next slide: goddess crop circle photo]
Here we have the goddess, of course, in a geometric form but it's
very clearly obvious that's what we're seeing again. This is the
rebirth of the Earth, coming into being.
[next slide]
You see three goddess formations in this, from 1990. This was
Alton Barnes 1990.
It made it on to the cover of the Led Zeppelin CD box set,
actually. That's a much nicer version of the photograph, too,
before everybody tamped it down like you see in this one. All
these footsteps messing it up over here. It's not there.
[next slide: Barbury Castle, August 11, 1991 crop circle photo]
512
Well, this one is one of the greatest ones in terms of the impact
that it had. Richard Hoagland is really the one who made this
most popular. It shows, basically... we think it shows... first
dimension, second dimension, third dimension and then fourth in
the middle, the geometry. These lines are perfectly equated with a
tetrahedron inside a sphere.
[next slide]
This is a situation where a bunch of people were sitting around
studying crop circles and they said: Oh, wow, wouldn't it be great
if they did a Mandelbrot set, this fractal? The very next day it
shows up in the crop, so somebody's listening!
[next slide: Stonehenge, July 7, 1996 crop circle photo]
A truck driver drives his truck by this part of the field, he doesn't
see anything there. Fifteen minutes later the farmer is going out
there and he sees this thing in his crops. It wasn't there 15
minutes earlier, showed up in 15 minutes, in 1996.
Surveyors were asked how long it would take to do this if you
plotted it all out on the ground. They said minimum 2-3 days, and
that would be if you really worked all day and all night. It's a
beautiful formation – 15 minutes.
[next slide: Windmill Hill, July 29, 1996 crop circle photo]
This one is even more outrageous, in 1996, because now you get
three of them rather than just one. [next slide] And they form
these interesting Cat's Cradle of equilateral triangles when you
look at it from the top down.
[next slide: crop circle photo - looks like a snowflake]
Now, here's another fractal and of course the skeptics start
saying: Well, this isn't really a Koch snowflake. The Koch
snowflake is taking the triangle and making the inverse and then
iterating it more and more, then you get this thing that looks like
a snowflake.
The circle makers say, Oh you don't think it's a Koch snowflake?
Well, here, you're really stupid so we're going to give you
another one.
[next slide: crop circle photo - looks like a snowflake inside a
snowflake]
We'll put a snowflake in it this time just so you can figure it out.
[laughter] People still don't get it.
[next slide: intricately detailed crop circle photo]
[fake British accent] Now that is obviously caused by an army of
hedgehogs running around and around and around. There is a
perfectly rational scientific explanation: a bunch of drunk
gentlemen coming back from the pub one night with long boards
on their feet and a funny cap with a string, and they're walking
around and around, tamping down the crop circle, having the
greatest time of their lives making absolutely geometrically
precise formations in record time over one night.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
I don't think that's what happened. And this is the kind of stuff
they were doing 1200 years ago, causing Agobard to prohibit the
pagans from taking these things out for fertility rituals, all the
crops from these circles. This is what they're doing now – it's the
same technology.
[next slide]
That's my favorite one yet. Never seen one that makes me happier
than that one. Look at the precision. There isn't a single part of
this that's geometrically out of alignment. Nobody on the ground
could have done that in the one night that it showed up in; it's just
too complex.
[next slide reads: Suggestions of Genetic Changes / Evolution?]
Well, there's a message in there. Genetic change is in evolution.
[next slide: photo of Froxfield "Chromosome" Formation, August
18, 1991]
Look at this. This is chromosomes breaking in 1991. When
chromosomes break, that means the cell is about to divide. That's
what this is showing you, so there is some sort of evolution
happening.
[next slide: three DNA formation photos]
You look in 1996; you see a very clear illustration of DNA. Do
you see the double helix there? Can everybody see that? I also
want you to pay attention to this shape right here. I want you
should look at that shape, memorize that little part. We're going
to get back to that in a minute.
This is the same kind of sine wave you see here but it is in a
geometric pattern. That's '99. Now, look what happens less than a
month later. Exactly the same formation, but now it's got even
more strands.
So it's saying something is going to be happening to DNA. That's
the suggestion. That's one suggestion... there are others.
[next slide]
Here is one again that is showing you DNA but it's in a perfect
circle, a perfect ring. You can obviously see the double helix and
the little ladders connecting the two sides together. It's beautiful.
[next slide]
But this is the one that really gets me off. You have the Galaxy in
the center, the Milky Way Galaxy, and then you have these
waves of DNA, and you have this pattern being flagged. Look at
that. There's your double helix. Everybody see that? This is being
pumped out by the Galaxy.
But look at this. In the Hebrew mystical tradition that's a special
shape called a "Yod", which refers to Divine Light coming down
into manifestation on the Earth.
513
I don't have it in this particular slide show but if you look at the
Tower card in the Tarot, there's all these Yods around the Tower
that's being struck by lightening. That represents Divine
Manifestation.
So this is actually a further message saying that this DNA energy
is a Divine Manifestation.
[next slide: formation of sun with planets orbiting]
The definitive 2012 formation is right here. This showed up last
year and what it does – or it might have been this year, wasn't it?
Man, it hasn't been that long. Oh no, I think it was last year, I'm
sorry. I've been using this ever since it showed up.
Now, there's some interesting things going on here. We look at
the Sun, okay? Now, look at the diameter of the Sun. We know
that all of these objects here represent the planets, and it's a
specific planetary alignment.
[next slide: "The inner part of Avebury Manor matches our inner
Solar System for a date of December 22, 2012" with diagrams]
Well, it's actually December 21st. This man made a mistake, but
it's close enough, with two days off you can't really make much
of a difference in terms of any of these positions.
But around December 21st, 2012 – Red Collie is the guy that did
this – look at this. You see all the positions of the planets are the
same as what's in the crop confirmation. Saturn, Jupiter, Mars,
they're all in the same positions.
Uranus, Neptune, Pluto. Pluto is not in the same position. It could
be that it would have broken the geometric harmony because it
would've had to have been right about here.
Now, I've had a little tip from, let's say, a source. This is a human
source. This is somebody here, not any extraterrestrial. He told
me to pay attention to this.
He says that also is part of the message, even though it looks like
it is just an irregularity in the ground. Why was it built so it's
right there? Is there something that we might be encountering in
the future that is right there in the Solar System? That's what
we're being told.
That's all I can say on that, but I want you to think about that.
[next slide]
Well, look at what happens here. The Sun, after a couple days, is
now widened to the orbit of Venus. Does this not suggest that
something is going to happen to the Solar System on guess what
day? December 21, 2012.
They gave you the planetary alignment and they give you what's
going to happen. They show you the Sun. They show you the Sun
changing in a very, very, very, very dramatic way. This doesn't
mean it's going to kill us.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
The other things show that it's an energetic change. And it would
also appear that this indicates some sort of energetic influx and
that these indicate all the ET groups that are surrounding us at
this time. These are code ciphers for different planetary
civilizations that are coming in.
[next slide reads: Interplanetary Climate Change: NASA's Hottest
Secret]
So, this gets us into interplanetary climate change. I'm not going
to spend a whole lot of time on this stuff, because there is so
much of this data, but this is the smoking gun. When anybody
tells you: Oh, there's nothing that's changed and it's all the same
old stuff -- it's not true, it's not true.
[next slide: "Solar Activity Highest in 8,000 Years!" with graphs]
First of all, let's look at the activity of the Sun. It's the highest it's
ever been in 8,000 years. This is taken from Antarctic and Arctic
ice core samples which have been correlated with tree rings and
all the other stuff they use.
11,000 ago – the fall of Atlantis – look at how high it is. It's
almost that high now. It's the highest it's been in 8,000 years.
[next slide: Telegraph.co.uk article "Scientists baffled by speed of
Sun’s storms']
The sun is now giving off storms that used to take two or more
hours to get here, showers of protons. Last year… well, that's
2005, I'm sorry. In 2005, one of them got here in 15 minutes.
That means the energy in the Solar System is conducting those
particles faster, which means it's charging up. The energy is
vibrating faster, the particles move faster. It's very simple.
NASA is now warning of a space Katrina in, guess what year?
2012. They're saying that the Sun could have a massive radiation
blast, just like it's possible that the crop circle was showing us
here.
Even Army studies, mainstream government studies, are saying
that the Sun could be driving all the climate change on the Earth.
Obviously, we're seeing it's at an all-time 8,000-year high.
The solar wind is slowing down. That's still been happening, it's
very weak. And at the same time, the Sun's bubble -- the actual
magnetic field of the Sun -- has gotten 25% smaller. The most
likely explanation for that is that the outside is pushing in on it.
There's something pushing in on it making it smaller. That's what
would most likely be causing this, which again suggests that
we're moving into an area in the Galaxy where there is a higher
energetic charge.
We have been in touch with insider witnesses, thanks to Project
Camelot, and one of the things that we've heard is that we do
have this fleet of ships out there, outside the Solar System, and
they have looked at this wave coming in.
514
They know there's a wave, they know it's coming in and they're
studying it and they see that it's coming into the Solar System. So
they are paying attention, but they're not going to tell us until the
last minute, which is just enough time for everybody to panic
while they run away. [Ed note: It’s the Galactic Superwave.]
But that's not what this is about. This is about genetic change, and
this is about evolution, and it's not a doom-and-gloom thing.
Even though I'm showing you stuff that you could think about in
a fearful way, all of these messages, all these crop formations that
they have built up 1,200 years of credibility to show you genetic
evolution. They're not showing you doom and gloom.
What would be the point? If it's an intelligent cosmos, why would
it create life on this beautiful planet, just to belch it off in a big
solar flare? That's not what this about.
Galactic dust. There is more dust that came in between 2000-
2001 -- 300% more than all the 1990s combined. That's another
major study that was found.
If you look at Mercury; Mercury's magnetosphere in 2008 was
much more powerful than it was seen in The Seventies with
Mariner 10. Here's the actual mainstream publication where that
came through.
Now, just recently, they go back a year later and they see even
more stuff. They found magnetic tornadoes, magnetic twisters,
and they said one of the biggest surprises was how strongly the
dynamics of the planet's magnetic field / solar wind interaction
had changed from the first Mercury fly-by in January 2008.
So, what this is telling you is that Mercury has changed
dramatically in its magnetic field in ONE YEAR. That's it,
Mercury is going nuts. That's the first planet in the Solar System.
That's not the only planet that's doing this. Look at Venus:
2,500% increase in the green glow in less than 20 years, looking
like this right here. That's totally amazing.
On Mars you have the appearance of clouds. You see the clouds
here that weren't there? Mars didn't use to have clouds or ozone.
They've only appeared in the last 30 years or so. It's another
major change.
Mainstream media has reported on global warming on Mars.
Guess what? Nobody's driving SUVs on Mars. At least, if they
are, there's probably a lot less of them than there are on Earth and
they probably run on free energy, based on what our
whistleblowers are telling us.
But something is melting the ice caps on Mars.
Jupiter has this plasma torus that you couldn't see before 1974
and yet now it looks like this? As time goes on, the density of this
torus as you see here is getting 200% thicker - this is the natural
saucering movement that it makes as the moon Io is going around
its orbit.
Well, they get so bored, they're: Ah, uh, stronger than expected.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
200% increase in the whole density of this thing in, basically, 25
years, 15 years -- very, very short time. Fifteen years, every
single particle inside this thing gets 50 percent denser. They say:
Well, it exceeded expectations. Okay, no biggie.
Jupiter's white ovals disappeared in three years. There's three of
them up here, then you see there's two and now there's one. Dr.
Phillip Marcus believed this would cause an 18-degree global
warming on Jupiter in only a decade.
Well, guess what? It's a decade later and now Jupiter is having
raging heat thunderstorms that they're calling global upheaval –
just what he predicted would happen.
These are infrared heat signatures that were not there before;
much higher intensity.
Now, you camera guys, can you shoot either one of these,
because I'm just realizing that over here we have light on that
slide and over here we don't have any light, so that's a better one
for me to be using my pointer on. I think I'm going to switch over
to this one now.
[applause]
Oh! Somebody throw stones at the idiot here. [laughter] All right,
never mind. Let's keep going.
The storms appeared during a dramatic planet-wide disturbance
that's ongoing on Jupiter. It's yet to be explained, but it's changed
the color of the stripes. Its storms are probably tied in with a
global upheaval.
Io's ionosphere, the moon that we were showing you before:
1,000% higher. That's all the charged particles which are coming
from the Sun. [makes snoring sound] Ah, it's unexpected.
This is ridiculous. This is our entire backyard. I've showed you
every planet.
Mercury's having magnetic tornadoes. Mercury is having so
much change that in one year, it's gone nuts.
Venus is having a 2,500% increase in its green glow.
Mars is having global warming and ozone in the atmosphere and
clouds that weren't there before.
Now you're going out to Jupiter, you're seeing this plasma torus
show up, all the particles are getting bigger, there's more and
more of them.
You look at the moon Io, it's the same thing. The ionosphere is
1,000% higher. The surface has gotten 200% hotter, three times
hotter than Mercury? How did that happen? Surprised? Oh yeah,
we can't explain it. [makes snoring sound] Okay.
Europa is much brighter than expected. This is what they thought
it would look like based on what it used to look like, and this is
what they actually got. Look at all that light.
515
Ganymede, same thing, 200% brighter. A 1,000% increase in its
density of its atmosphere.
Saturn's plasma torus, 1,000% denser; same thing, short period of
time, basically twelve years.
Aurorae are being seen in the polar regions of Saturn. Here's
another new thing: that's heat that wasn't there before. Massive
X-rays were seen for the first time near the equator of Saturn in
2004.
Uranus was as featureless as a cue ball in 1986, but look at what
happens to it by '99.
Dr. Erich Karkoschka finally has some of the childlike
enthusiasm we really should see. These are really big, big
changes, man! Check it out! It's incredible. It's been hit by huge
storms, dude. So he's finally got it right.
[makes snoring sound] Seasonal brightness changes, not well
understood. Moving on -- that's the official NASA report.
Uranus in 2004 is even brighter. Now, I'm going to superimpose
the original over what you've got here. Look at how much this is
changing. All that stuff is new. All this bright stuff wasn't there
before.
Well, guess what happens when you go out to Neptune? Exactly
the same thing. This is what it looked like in 1999.
This is what it looked like in 1996: zero degrees, quarter rotation,
half rotation, three quarter rotation; doom, doom, doom, doom,
doom.
Then we go up to 1998, you see that there's more brightness
coming in. But look what happens in 2002. It's gone 40% brighter
in near infrared, which is just above visible light. If you could see
this spectrum, this is what it would look like. To the naked eye
it's not changing that much, but this has only barely above what
our eyes can see as visible light.
[slide reads: 1989-2002: Massive Changes]
So, now I'm going to show you what it looks like as it goes from
'89 to 2002. Watch. Watch the bottom. Look at how much it's
changing. Do you think this is just a random thing that's being
caused by the tilt of the equator of the planet relative to the Sun?
No. This is a planet-wide, Solar-System-wide effect.
Global warming on Pluto: 300% increase in its atmospheric
pressure from '89 to 2002. It's moving away from the Sun, but the
surface of the planet is getting hotter as it moves away from the
Sun, which is causing the atmosphere to charge up.
So, this shows us that Earth changes are not unique to the Earth –
they're happening all over the place.
Now, Bill and Kerry, I see you guys over there. How much time
do we have, what are we on here? Okay.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Well, there's all sorts of different places we can stop and start in
this presentation, and I wanted to get you guys, sort of like when
I do these longer weekends at my conferences - like I'm having
one in London next month - we can actually drill into this data a
lot more, and there is a lot more data than I actually have had
time to go into here, but that's why I make these presentations
modular.
But what you're seeing here is, if you look through, I'm going to
summarize some of this stuff and zip a little faster, so we can get
to the punch line.
[slide shows graph, reads: Continuous Rise in Earthquakes]
We're seeing continuous rises in Earth change activity - let me do
it from this side - earthquakes, volcanic activity going up; sea
levels going up, temperatures going up; tornadoes are going up;
disasters, natural disasters; economic losses on Earth -- all this
stuff.
The entire Pacific Ocean sea floor is heating up, which is
obviously what happens when the Sun warms up water on the
surface of the ocean. Then those warm water particles are sinking
down to the bottom where they warm up the bottom of the ocean.
That's what the scientists are actually saying is going on. So of
course, the next time you want to boil water and boil some eggs,
just get a hair dryer and brrrrrrr -- it'll work just fine, I promise.
Hm, hm!
That's how they've explained this, because they can't tell you that
the Earth is heating up from the inside. That's all it is. The planets
are heating up from the inside.
Why are they heating up from the inside? Galactic energy fields.
What are the Galactic energy fields going to do? Change your
DNA. So, let's get to that.
We have to go through some stuff here. [flipping through slides]
All right. We'll get to this because this is good.
Bacteria. If you look in the Antarctic ice, in the interior of a
volcano, even inside a nuclear reactor, you'll find little critters.
They're everywhere. They even survive in space; they've been
recovered after being frozen for ten million years.
It's as if some life force takes that existing body that was there
and you thaw it out and it says: Oh, okay, that's a body. I'm going
to make it alive. So, there's something going on here, something
more than we usually think of life as being.
Some bacteria thrive on infrared light, they photosynthesize in
near darkness; and they have been found miles below the surface
of the ocean floor.
It is ridiculous to think that all these critters grew from living
bacteria, from other living bacteria. It becomes much more
plausible that those little bacteria that grew inside the nuclear
reactor didn't come from other bacteria that grow inside nuclear
reactors, that are sort of floating around saying, Hm, let me find a
nuclear reactor; oh look, there's one.
516
No, those nuclear reactors are hermetically sealed for a reason,
but they're not sealed from the Source Field. They're not sealed
from this energy that goes in there and says, Oh, here's a place
where I can make life. - This is like what happens in a star. - Let
me go ahead and jump in there and they start creating life.
So, they call this a “problem”, but it's actually a proof. It's a proof
that life is everywhere in the universe.
Dr. Chandra Wickramasinghe – say that three times fast; and try
to spell it while you're pronouncing it (I've had to practice that, I
might add) – has proven that the organic material in comets is
biological; it has critters in it. There're billions of comets in the
Solar System alone and he believes that all life on Earth may
have come here from a comet.
This is Dr. Francis Crick, the co-founder of DNA. What he shows
us is that it is way too complex to have evolved by random
chance. It's as if the entire Encyclopedia Britannica fell out of the
sky, one word at a time, and it all happened to arrange like those
monkeys on typewriters. That's the kind of logical idiocy that is
involved to try to say that DNA is a Darwinian mutation from
random accidents.
[bottom of slide reads: "99.9% of all dust in the Galaxy has the
spectrographic signature of bacteria!"]
Here's his biggest discovery! Now, this is the same guy who
discovered DNA. Why isn't this as popular as his other
discovery? He looks at all the dust in the line of sight between
where we are on Earth and the center of the Galaxy and all of it
looks just like bacteria in its heat signature and its light signature.
Exactly the same. It IS bacteria.
So this is Howard Hughes’ worst nightmare: space is filled with
germs. [laughter] Don't go to space if you're a germophobe.
Even the mainstream media is saying space [dust] that creates
human life is found in other solar systems.
Well, we know that space has these Source Field differences.
There is a Source Field energy in space that you don't see here on
Earth. It's called the Overview Effect, or Space Euphoria.
Astronauts go out there and they get this massive energetic high
from being in space. It's been reported by many of them.
The Chinese have taken seeds and flown them into space - and
it's important that you do this in a space capsule that doesn't have
PVC plastic windows and doesn't have aluminum in the chassis.
If you do that, which is what the NASA probes are like, it doesn't
work. It won't work. If you have any PVC plastic at any point
over the windows, they're not going to do this. And if you have
aluminum in the body of the thing, it's not going to work.
The Chinese built one that didn't do it that way and what happens
is, they send these seeds out into space, and remember what I said
about the pyramids built by the Russians? They tossed the seeds
in and what happened to the seeds? 400% more productive seeds;
400% bigger plants.
Would you like to see the kind of crops that the Chinese were
growing when they just flew the seeds into space? Let's go for it.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
Bang! There's your pumpkin. That's the only thing they've done is
grow it hydroponically and regular hydroponic pumpkins don't do
this. This is a space pumpkin. That's the only thing they did is fly
it into space.
[in a low voice] It's the mystery of the Great Pumpkin from
space. Every Halloween he comes in a UFO. [laughter]
Now this, isn't that amazing? That is actually called a bitter grow.
It is not a whale penis. [laughter] Contrary to your belief, it is
actually a melon.
Now, you know those little hot peppers, right? Those little hot
"Oh, Jesus!", or maybe you really like it, maybe you're a sadist
and, "Oh, this is wonderful." Okay.
Let's look at some hot peppers. That's a lot bigger than they're
supposed to be. That's amazing stuff.
So, is this the source of all life? Is all life found in an energy
wave?
Well, check this out. This is Dr. James Strick, Sparks of Life,
major scientific conspiracy, 19th century. Many of these guys
were arguing in favor of Darwin random mutation and others
argued for spontaneous generation, life from non-living things.
They didn't know whether it was one or the another.
They found numerous experimental examples of "spontaneous
generation". Pasteur had cases where life originated from non-
living things, so it's not as easily dismissed as we would like to
believe. Louis Pasteur is why you have "pasteurized" milk.
All of these guys created a conspiracy where they buried data,
where you have sterilized test tubes where nothing could grow in
there and critters grew in there anyway. They threw it all away,
because they wanted to believe Darwin was right, because
survival of the fittest is an Illuminati philosophy that says: If I'm
the best killer, then I'm the most evolved on the planet.
That's how they felt about themselves, so they enforced it into the
scientific structure of the world. History has been completely
rewritten in favor of that model.
So now this is a big mouthful, and here's the guy's name, which is
also a big mouthful. Professor Pacheco, you can find this on
http://www.orgone.org/articles/ax2001igna01a.htm .
[Prof. Ignacio Ochoa Pacheco]
It's very simple. What he did is he takes beach sand and he heats
it up to white hot luminescence; it's literally white hot, and then
he takes that sterilized beach sand and he throws it into a
sterilized test tube with sterilized distilled water in a vacuum, so
there's no way anything could have gotten in there.
Five days later, this scum has grown on top of the test tube. He
scrapes it off and looks at it under a microscope. Would you like
to see some of the little things that he saw in there? Let's go for it.
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This is the first one. It looks like a little brain.
Here's something that looks like it might be part of perhaps a sea
vegetable, like one of the leaves broke off when he put it under
the microscope. Let's look up close on that little guy and tell me
if you think this is biological.
Where did his DNA come from? All that was, was sand; there
was nothing else in there. He sterilized the sand, he sterilized the
water, sterilized the air, and yet, this little critter grew in there.
And that's just one part of a bigger plant. There're pictures of
where you see the plant.
Here's another one that looks like a red blood cell. Here's one that
looks like a white blood cell or a leukocyte. But here comes --
drum roll please -- the bomdiggity. This little guy probably has
20,000 to 30,000 genes, which is about the same as you. It's
similar to little round worms and stuff.
This guy has a very complex DNA structure, because he has a
defense system; he has a head, he has a mouth, he probably
excretes out here somewhere, which is too much information --
but there he is.
Where does DNA come from? DNA is in space, it's everywhere.
The DNA wave says: Oh, this is the silica, the basis of sand, I
need to build little sea creatures in this stuff.
Just like when it's inside the nuclear reactor it says: Oh, this is
radioactive, I need to build radioactive bacteria in here. Life is
being created everywhere it goes.
But it even goes beyond that. Now, this really blew me away.
Check this out: National Geographic, February 15, 2009, found
identical species at the North and South Poles, but ONLY at the
Poles. That's the only place you find them.
They tried to explain it as maybe there are ships that go from the
South Pole to the North Pole. They analyzed every single ship in
the world; none of them do this at all.
So, they found 235 different species that are identical at both
Poles. They were startled; they didn't know what the heck was
going on. This includes whales, worms and crustaceans, very
weird crustaceans, as you're about to see.
Exactly where these species came from and how they ended up a
world apart with comparatively warm oceans in between remains
a mystery. So they don't know what the heck these guys are, how
they got there. They don't have any idea. Would you like to see
some of these creatures that emerged directly from the
consciousness field? Let's go for it. They're very strange-looking
things.
This is called Limacina helicina. This is very strange. It looks
kind of like a snail but it's got these fans on it like a squid. It's a
very weird-looking thing.
This is called Clione limacina limacina, another very strange-
looking little creature.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
This one is Gaetanus brevispinus. This is a crustacean of some
kind.
And lastly you have Mimonectes sphaericus. He's got a really
nasty-looking defense system up front, doesn't he? He is a little
badass, but he's out there doing his thing and guess what created
him?
The consciousness of the Earth spontaneously generates these
little guys at both Poles. There is no conduit of sea water going
from North to South Pole. He would have burned up on the way
through the core.
Think about it. The reason why he's there is because the field
generates him, because he is supposed to be there, because the
Earth makes him. The Earth has made us.
So the Solar System is creating evolution – DNA evolves by
outside energy.
I'm going to have to skip ahead through all this stuff, so just give
me a second here. Ah, that's a good place to go because we're
running out of time.
[skips forward to slide that reads: Dr. Tszyan Kanchzhen: DNA
Transformation by Wave.]
So we've already seen now that you have DNA that has been
created out of the ether, same species at both Poles. You've seen
the little guys that grow in the test tube from nothing more than
distilled water and sterilized sand. There's this little scum that
grows on top and you look at it under a microscope and –
BOOM! – Here're these little critters.
What about DNA changing from one form to another? What
about transforming DNA from one form to another, so that you
have the given genetic material of one species and it transforms
into something else?
Well, Kanchzhen is the guy here, and there's a lot of different
ways to pronounce his name. Most recently I've seen it spelled
Chiang. C-H-I-A-N-G is his first name. So, there's many different
spellings of this guy's name, which makes it extremely difficult to
find his work online, unfortunately.
So what he does in this anatomically-correct diagram is he's got
your duck over here, you can see the feathers, the head, quack,
quack, quack, there he is. And over here you have a perfectly-
described chicken -- obviously, I'm being facetious.
What you have here is these little funnels that have been built
into the sides of a little pentagonal box. He zaps this little duck
with microwaves and all the microwaves go through these copper
pipes from one room to another. If you talk in here, you'll hear it
in here; it's air that can pass through.
He's zapping it with microwaves, which are not going to kill the
duck, it just kind of zaps his energy field enough to make it
resonate, make the DNA resonate. And over here, you have a
chicken that has eggs in its womb.
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[slide: picture of white duck]
Now, I want you to look at the physiology of a duck. Notice the
long beak, the webbed feet, the longer neck, the larger internal
cavity of organs. Whereas a chicken, by comparison, - this is not
what they looked like when they came out by the way, that's just
to fool you. I actually found this when I was looking for the
picture of the chicken with the webbed feet and then I found her
with ducks and I'm like, Wow, isn't that a synchronicity.
So anyway, look: shorter beak, no webbing between the toes.
This is what actually hatched. These are called duck-hens. You
see webbing between the toes, you see this strange-looking head.
We can get a better look at it here. The eyes position is different.
You get the duck-shaped head, the longer beak, the webbing
between the toes.
Now, here's the stats. These add up to a total of 500 eggs; 480 of
them hatched; 80% had a flat, duck-shaped head like you just
saw; 90% had the shift in the position of the eyes – 90%! And
25% had webbing appear between the toes.
This is a Chinese scientist who did this. It's an amazing piece of
research. You go from this, and you blend it with this, and you
get duck-hens that are half-and-half. It's an amazing phenomena.
So, if you've ever wondered what the heck is the duck-billed
platypus? Maybe it just so happens that a bunch of ducks and a
bunch of bulls got together and did "that which we cannot speak
of in polite company", and God got so angry he smote them with
a lightning bolt. Then they had lots of little babies, and the babies
are like, Daddy, Mommy. Oh, wow! What the hell am I? [laughs]
That could have been what happened, or maybe God just has a
weird sense of humor.
[slide reads: Dr. Peter Gariaev - Astonishing DNA Wave
Transformation]
Gariaev is where we get to the final point that's going to help
round out the whole talk: DNA transformation.
You have frog eggs, okay? The frog eggs are laid and they're all
sitting there. Then you have a salamander's eggs, and you take a
laser beam that's not going to burn them, it's not going to kill
them, it just picks up the wave information from the salamander.
You take those salamander eggs, you shine the wave through it,
you redirect the wave into the frog eggs. Guess what happens to
the frog's eggs?
You get a complete metamorphosis. The genetic material of the
frog's eggs becomes cannibalized by the wave of the salamander.
"Cannibalized" is maybe a strong word to use, but it gobbles up
all the genetic material that was going to make a frog and totally
rewrites the code and transforms it into a salamander's body.
It happens in ONE generation. You have eggs that come out of a
frog's body, and they turn into a completely different species.
That doesn't take very long. It's instantaneous energetic change.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So what we're seeing is, this is the engine of evolution. This is
what the Solar System is doing to us. The Solar System's energy
that's causing all of the planets to charge up is the same as the
energy of the laser that goes through the salamander and shines
into the frog, transforms the frog eggs into salamander eggs, and
they become healthy adult salamanders.
They can breed with each other. They don't get all these genetic
problems when they get older. They don't have the complications
associated with genetic cloning, of the genetic conundrum that
you have with Dolly the sheep, where like, the feet go bad as she
gets older.
So, again, I want to have you look once more at the fossil record,
this 26-million-year cycle. Why do you think it's happening in
such regular intervals of 26 million years?
This is Raup and Sepkoski. Why do you think they found another
cycle that's 62 million years long? What do these zones actually
represent?
Well, here's what we're going to talk about to cap off the whole
talk for you: Galactic bioenergy fields may be responsible.
We now know, thanks to Dr. William Tifft, that even though
most scientists associate red shift, which is just a microwave
frequency – that's all it is, is microwave light – they associate red
shift with distance. Tifft has looked -- and his colleagues and
people, who've followed after him -- have looked at hundreds and
hundreds and hundreds of galaxies and every single galaxy that
they look at has a structure like this, okay?
What you're seeing here is, this is high intensity red shift, or high
intensity microwaves, and then it goes lower and lower as you go
out. So these frequency changes are very regular; this is within a
regular galaxy now. What's happening is - you can see another
example of it here. These are red shift structures. You see the
layers.
What's happening, we know from Dr. Rosine Lallement - and
here's the link down at the bottom, you can verify this:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20021231023909/http://www.wkap.n
l/prod/a/ISBN_0-7923-7196-8_50_WEB.PDF]
She thinks this is only a coincidence, but what she sees is that the
local interstellar medium, the clouds that are around our Solar
System, are moving directly away from the center of the Galaxy.
They are expanding away from the center of the Galaxy.
So, what we're seeing now is that these guys, these clouds in the
Galaxy are going to be expanding away from the center in regular
intervals, just like Lallement discovered. This appears to have the
energy from the Galaxy that reprograms all DNA and all life on
Earth.
Now I ask you this: If you have these 62-million-year cycles in
the fossil record, if you have 26-million-year cycles in the fossil
record, if you have these striated, evenly-different frequencies of
microwave energy in the Galaxy, if Dr. Rosine Lallement has
proven that the clouds are flowing at us directly from the center
of the Galaxy -- then don't you think, maybe, just maybe,
519
interplanetary climate change is being caused by Galactic energy
fields, which are squeezing in the heliosphere, making it 25%
smaller, shooting in particles to the Solar System, causing all of
the planets to get charged up, hotter, brighter, more magnetic, and
that that energy actually has the DNA wave information to
transform every living species on this planet into the next level?
Because, guess what? This is a 62-million-year cycle and the last
time it fired up was 65 million years ago. This is probably off
because of the variations in the influx of solar radiation. We're at
the end of the cycle right now.
Now there's one thing that we're going to end with and that is the
final proof that is going to make this all come together for you.
[slide reads: Human Evolution is Dramatically Speeding Up]
I can prove to you that human evolution is already doing what we
expect it would do, based on interplanetary climate change, based
on the science I've showed you. I have the scientific proof that
you are actually evolving, genetically, based on this science.
Check this out.
John Hawks, University of Wisconsin anthropologist, studied
evolution in human beings – it’s called positive selection. He
found that in the last 5,000 years, your DNA is upgrading a
hundred times faster than ever in human history. In fact, the last
40,000 years have been a time of supercharged evolutionary
change.
We are more genetically different from people 5,000 years ago...
that's 3,000 BC. That's the time of things like the time of
Sumerians, and that's the time of the Indian Hindu scriptures.
We normally think of these people, the Old Testament and just a
little bit after that, ancient Egypt, people building pyramids... we
don't think of them as much different than we are.
But if you compare those people that are building pyramids in
Egypt to the Neanderthals – Neanderthals, right? With the big
clunky brow? Nothing like mine; my brow has nothing like that.
I'm not a Neanderthal.
He compared those people in Egypt with Neanderthals, and they
are more similar to Neanderthals than they are to us. You don't
think about it because we look around, we say: Yeah, these are
people. Everybody is the same, you know.
But look, the genetic proof is already here. We've changed more
in 5,000 years than ever in human history, and he's calling it
supercharged. This is an actual mainstream media proof of that.
And here's another one showing that our evolutionary fast lane is
becoming increasingly different at a hundred times faster in the
last 5,000 years.
Now, here's the last thing. Our average IQ has had to be increased
by three points a decade. It's been studied in over 20 different
countries, by Flynn, and it's continued for over a century. And
our IQ is rising the most in abstract, nonverbal patterns, which
means it doesn't have to do with us reading more magazines,
newspapers and surfing the Internet. It's a symbolic intelligence.
 ProjectCamelotPortal.com
So this is the hard-core proof, scientifically measurable, the
reason why the IQ is going up like that, because a score of 100 is
supposed to be average... that's how it's weighed. So in order to
keep 100 average, you have to bump it up by three points every
100 years -- because everybody's getting so much smarter, you
got to keep knocking down their IQ score.
Because everybody's average is now 100, that means everybody
is so much smarter, now your IQ is going to go down and down
and down, which if you have low self esteem, could really hurt
you. So, don't hang out much longer, just, you know, psfaw. No,
I'm not saying you should kill yourself, of course, unless you're
really, really arrogant about your IQ.
Anyway, this is where we're going. It amounts to a cultural
renaissance.
So, the Galaxy – and this is the final point – 20 years of study of
ESP has proven, scientifically sound studies... He looked at all of
these studies -- Spottiswoode his name is -- to see if people were
psychic when it's high noon or a certain time of the day. He didn't
find anything in the normal day, which is where the Sun is
relative to the center of the Earth, but when the Earth's position
relative to the center of the Galaxy was studied, he found that
when you are aligned with the center of the Galaxy, your ESP
ability goes up by 400%. This is a mainstream scientific study.
So think about this. We now have the proof, and this is what I'm
going to end on, we now have the proof that galactic energy, as
you see right here, he took 20 years’ worth of studies into ESP,
20 years, and he found that people got more psychic when the
galactic energy field is hitting them.
I've showed you layers of fields in the Galaxy that are measurable
on a superficial level by microwaves, just like near-infrared is
showing up on the planet, same thing.
I've shown you proof from Rosine Lallement that these galactic
energy waves are in fact expanding away from the center of the
Galaxy as they go out. It's not proof, but it's certainly
circumstantial evidence that strongly leads in that direction.
I'm showing you proof that the Solar System is changing, proof
that the Sun's heliosphere is shrinking, which suggests very
strongly a galactic causation.
If the galactic energy can make you more intelligent, and if all
the species on the Earth are being reprogrammed in their DNA in
62- and 26-million-year cycles, and if we're at the end of another
62-million-year cycle right now, then let's put our hands together,
because we are awake and aware and we're walking into the New
Age, maybe in 2012.
Thank you so much.
[applause/ ovation]
All right, I got a standing O, baby, a standing O.
[Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy go onstage to thank and embrace
David Wilcock]
I'm glad you liked it.
KC: David, thank you. That was absolutely superb, as usual. I
wish we had more time for you actually.
David Wilcock, Ladies and Gentlemen, and thank you very much
for staying with us all this time, being so patient.

**Transcript provided by the hard-working volunteer members of the Divine Cosmos/ Project Camelot Transcription Team. All the
transcripts that you find on both sites have been provided by the Transcription Team for the last several years. We are like ants: we
may be hidden, but we create clean transcripts for your enjoyment and pondering.**

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The following interviews and lectures have not yet been transcripted. They are available
for viewing and listening in the Project Camelot Library available through the Project
Camelot Portal.

Boriska – Indigo Boy from Mars

T T

Boris Kipriyanovich is an Indigo Child, probably the most famous in Russia. Boriska, or 'little Boris', was featured in Pravda, after
Gennady Belimov, a university professor in the Volgograd region of Russia, witnessed Boriska, then aged just seven, astound an
adult audience during a camping trip in which he held them spellbound for an hour and a half as he recounted tales of past lives on
Mars and Lemuria, and warned of catastrophes due to affect the Earth in 2009 and 2013. Belimov had the presence of mind to
record Boriska's monologue, and within a short time word was spreading within Russia about what this diminutive prophet had to
say, especially once the story was picked by Moscow's premier newspaper.

Leo Zagami – Illuminati Whistleblower

Leo Lyon Zagami, ex-member of the Comitato Esecutivo Massonico - the Masonic Executive Committee - of Monte Carlo, was, until
recently, a high level member of the Italian Illuminati. He is a 33rd degree Freemason, and a senior member of the infamous P2
Lodge. He was the 'Prince': prepared to take over after the older Illuminati 'King', Licio Gelli. He was born of a Scottish-Sicilian
Illuminati aristocratic bloodline, and so has been involved in the Illuminati Order since childhood.

Disgusted with satanic black magic rituals, and with the true intentions of those who regard themselves as the elite controllers of the
planet, he has now made the commitment to tell the real story of those who seek to rule us all without our consent.

Valery Uvarov - Pyramid Power and 2012

Dr Valery Uvarov is the head of the Department of UFO Research, Palaeosciences and Palaeotechnology of the National Security
Academy of Russia, and has devoted more than 15 years to ufology as well as to the study of the legacy of ancient civilizations.

In October 2007, Valery invited Project Camelot to his St Petersburg home to present some controversial theories behind the 1908
Tunguska incident, the significance of 2012, and the coming magnetic pole shift - and describes the intriguing Russian construction
of nine large pyramids between St. Petersburg and Moscow. The intention of this fascinating experiment is both to research new
approaches to curing cancer, and to employ the pyramids as a sort of centering device during the next few years as we move closer
to the galactic plane.
T

Dr Brian O'Leary (8 July 2009) ?

Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell, At The Zurich Conference , 10 July

Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell's main presentation on the evening of the first day of the conference.

David Wilcock, At The Zurich Conference , 11 July

David Wilcock's all-day presentation on the second day of the presentation.

Panel Discussion, At The Zurich Conference, 11 July

The now-famous Zurich Conference panel discussion. The subject was the panel members' views on compulsory vaccination.
Taking part were Dan Burisch, Marci McDowell, David Wilcock, Brian O'Leary and Bill Ryan.

Bill Ryan Workshop, At The Zurich Conference, 12 July

Brian O'Leary's Workshop, At The Zurich Conference, 12 July

Richard Dolan – Phone Interview (4 August 2009)

Richard Dolan is the author of UFOs and the National Security State. This is a wonderful book: eminently readable, and a worthy
U U

sucessor to Timothy Good's classic Above Top Secret. We have a pre-publication copy and I (Bill) have not been able to put it down.

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I highly recommend it. Those interested in our recent debate with Steven Greer may be particularly interested in Rich Dolan's
perceptive comments, archived in the link above.
Miriam Delicado - Phone Interview (6 August 2009)
T T

Project Camelot is not alone in having experienced some very strange and unexpected attacks, or in being astonished about the
direction from which they came.
This 15 minute extract is from our radio show, in which this subject was discussed between ourselves and our friend and guest,
Miriam Delicado - who was in a serious auto accident a few days previously. We think the discussion, and clarification, in that audio
T

segment was so important - and clearly explained - that we urge all visitors to listen.
T

Dr. Bill Deagle – Phone Interview (19 August 2009)

This 39 minute extract from our radio show - with commercials edited out - contains some extremely important information about
Swine Flu (and what this genocidal plan may be all about) that is vital for us all to consider.

George Green - 19 September

Bill & Kerry - 20 September

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NOTES:

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