I Told Steve Bannon: We Are Not At War With Islam. He Disagreed.

I was the target of Islamist ire for publishing cartoons of the Prophet
Muhammad in a Danish newspaper. But a war against all Muslims is not the
solution.
02/13/2017 01:59 pm ET | Updated 3 hours ago
Flemming Rose Senior fellow, Cato Institute; former foreign editor, Jyllands-
Posten

MANDEL NGAN VIA GETTY IMAGES

Trump congratulates Bannon during the swearing-in of senior staff in the East
Room of the White House. Jan. 22.
In late May 2016, I was invited to a private home in New York for a chat. Like a
lot of other people, the host was concerned about Islams growing influence in
Europe, and she wanted to meet because back in 2005 and 2006, I had been
been at the center of the Danish cartoon controversy, one of many clashes
between Islam and the secular values of freedom of speech and the right to
criticize and satirize religion.
A man whom Id never met before entered the living room. He sat at the table
across from me. He was about my age, maybe a little older, burly but not
overweight. His face was a bit ruddy. He was unshaven and barefoot with long
and greying hair.
During our conversation, he introduced himself as Steve. It turned out that his
last name was Bannon, and he was then the chief executive of Breitbart News,
an alternative U.S. media outlet, which has become one of the most read and
watched news websites and has recently expanded to Europe. A couple months
after our encounter, Bannon joined Donald Trumps presidential campaign as a
top adviser. The rest is history.
What disturbed me most was Bannons apparent belief that violence and war
can have a cleansing effect.
Just a few weeks into Trumps administration, it is clear that Bannons influence
in the White House is far-reaching. He co-wrote the presidents inaugural
speech, in which Trump promised to stop the carnage in America, take the
country back from a globalized elite and rebuild it on the principles of America
First. Bannon is the only political adviser to a president in recent memory who
gained a permanent seat on the National Security Council. He was also one of the
key drivers behind the travel ban on citizens from seven Muslim-majority
countries and asylum seekers from Syria. An editorial in The New York
Times called Bannon the de facto president and Time magazine put Bannon on
its cover with the headline The Great Manipulator.
When we met, Bannon had just returned from the Cannes Film Festival in France
where his film Clinton Cash had screened. Our conversation began calmly
enough, but pretty soon it became heated at times. Bannon apparently assumed
that we were on the same page when it comes to confronting the threat from
Islamic terrorism, the challenge from parallel Muslim societies in Europe, and
European countries failure to integrate many Muslims.
When he discovered that we held different views, our conversation became
intense. Bannon is energetic; his lively body language is very much part of the
way he expounds his opinions. And he doesnt shy away from profanities.
Trump is only a premonition of what will ultimately come. Just wait and
see, Bannon said.
I was a bit taken aback that a person I had never met would burst so
immediately into a passionate assault on my opposing views. Bannon was straight
in-your-face, without any formalities or niceties. That kind of explosive candor
could be considered refreshing if what he was saying werent so worrisome
especially now that he is one of the most influential policymakers in America.
Bannon is angry. The object of his anger is the globalized elite. He argued that
Trump is just the beginning of a rebellion that will grow increasingly aggressive
in the coming years. In a way, he told me, Trump is not the real thing only a
premonition of what will ultimately come. Just wait and see, he said.
Bannon talked about how he traveled across the U.S. and met with ordinary
Americans who feel abandoned, powerless and betrayed by the establishment.
Capitalism has gone off track and has to be saved from itself. For him, the
tipping point was the financial crisis in 2008 and 2009 and the governments
bailout of Wall Street while ordinary Americans had to pay the bill.
Bannons conviction that the way to a better world sometimes necessitates
blowing up what is sounds alarmingly Leninist.
Ronald Radosh, a social historian affiliated with the conservative Hudson
Institute, wrote recently about talking to Bannon at a book party in November
2013. According to Radosh, the guy who is now Trumps chief strategist
proclaimed himself a Leninist. According to Radosh, Bannon explained his
Leninist tactics this way: Lenin wanted to destroy the state, and thats my goal
too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of todays
establishment.
Bannon didnt mention Lenin in our conversation, but I certainly recognized the
rebellious, even revolutionary, fervor in his manner. Of course, Bannon isnt a
Leninist in the ideological sense. Quite the opposite. But his conviction that the
way to a better world sometimes necessitates blowing things up sounds
alarmingly Leninist.
What disturbed me the most in our conversation was Bannons apparent belief
that violence and war can have a cleansing effect, that we may need to tear
down things and rebuild them from scratch. He made it clear he had lost faith in
Europe as secularism and arriving Muslim immigrants had eroded traditional
Christian values as the founding pillar of our civilization. Losing the Christian
faith, in his view, has weakened Europe its neither willing nor able to confront
Islams rising power and some European Muslims insistence on privileged
treatment of their religion.
Bannon is of the belief that, if Europe is to be saved [from Islam], there is
no way to avoid armed conflict.
Bannon is of the belief that, if Europe is to be saved, there is no way to avoid
armed conflict. The power of Islam cannot be stopped by peaceful means. In
short, Bannon told me in no uncertain terms that the West is at war with Islam.
I begged to differ. Yes, we are in a hot war with violent Islamists and in a cold
war with nonviolent Islamists who want to undermine secular democracy. But we
are not at war with Islam. The Cold War was fought on many fronts, but
basically it was a battle of ideas in which Marxists of a social democratic mold
played a crucial role defending democracy against totalitarian Soviet Marxism-
Leninism. Its important to provide the same space for Muslims on the side of
democracy to engage in the battle against Islamism. That seems impossible if we
insist on being at war with Islam.
Bannon disagreed. He shook his head. After another emotionally charged verbal
tirade, he looked at me, slightly embarrassed. Then he said: Flemming, I hope
we can do it your way, but I am not sure.
Also on WorldPost:
Trumps First 100 Days
More:
Donald Trump Worldpost Europe Europe Muslim World Steve Bannon