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FRPstressanalysis #844911/07/06 09:09PM 0registered(),12
Guestsand1Spider
Dick online.
Dobson MostpipingstressanalysisforFRPandothernonmetallic
Key:Admin,GlobalMod,
Member pipingsystemsarebasedonflexibility.Thisseemsfinefor Mod
mostabovegroundpipinginstallations.Butbowwouldyou
Registered:
11/22/05 designapipingsystemandperformstressanalysisona February
Posts:5 pipingsystemthatcouldnotbeflexible?Forexamplea
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
Loc:Tulsa, pipingsystemthatwasonaskid,anoffshoreplatform,a
Oklahoma vesselorship,andaprocesspipingsysteminsideaplant, 1 2 3 4
bothhorizontalandvertical. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
_________________________ 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
DickDobson 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28
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Re:FRPstressanalysis [Re:DickDobson] #846111/08/06 03:49AM 11143Members
kvjoshi 14Forums
Member Iamnotclearaboutyourquestion. 14688Topics
66098Posts
Registered:
11/07/06 Asfarasunderstand,allthepipingsystemsareflexible.
MaxOnline:61@
Posts:9 Eventhepipingonskid,onoffshoreplatform,pipingon
01/17/17 08:56AM
Loc:Indonesia shiporinprocessplantareanalysedinthesamemanner
asperusualcodes&standards.Thebasisofstress
analysisisthesameforallthepipingsystems.
ForFRP,refractorypiping,itisslightlydifferent.
Pleasebemoreclearaboutthequery.
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Dick
Dobson Thereisnoroomforthepipingtoflexwheninstalledona
Member skid,anoffshoreplatform,aveselorship,andaninside
processpipingsystem.Thereisnotenoughlengthbetween
Registered:
11/22/05 directionchangesandbranchlinesforflexibility.Therefore
Posts:5 howdoyouinstallthepiping(supports,guides,and
Loc:Tulsa, anchors)?Youcannotdesignapipingsystemusingflexible
Oklahoma analysiswhenthereisnoflex,canyou?
_________________________
DickDobson
http://65.57.255.42/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8449 1/5
2/13/2017 FRPstressanalysisIntergraphCADWorx&Analysis
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Dick
Dobson Howdoyouknowwheretoplacesupports,anchors,and
Member guides?Shouldananalysisofthepipingtellyouthat
bendingmomentsonchangesindirectionandbranches
Registered:
11/22/05 exceedtheallowables?Forexampleyoucannotplacean
Posts:5 anchorfarenoughfromachangeindirectionto
Loc:Tulsa, accommodatetheallowablebendingmoment?orcanyou?
Oklahoma
_________________________
DickDobson
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Dick
Dobson CanCAESARIIbeusedtohelpdesignapipingsystemthat
Member mustberestrained?CanCAESARIIhelptoproperlylocate
asupport,orguide,oranchor?CanCAESARIIbeusedto
Registered:
11/22/05 tellifasupportoranchororguideisimproperlyplaced
Posts:5 duetoexcessivestressonthepiping?
Loc:Tulsa,
Oklahoma _________________________
DickDobson
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kvjoshi
Member Ithinkyoushouldfirstunderstandthatsoftwareistobe
utilizedtovalidateengineeringjudgement.Youshouldnot
Registered:
11/07/06 workotherwayround.(Sorrytobesoundedblunt,but
Posts:9 softwaresworkontheprincipleof"Garbageingarbage
Loc:Indonesia out").Ifyoustartlookinginsoftwaretogetsolutionsto
yourproblemsthenyoumaylandupindifficulties.
Regardingflexibilityofpipingsystems,believeme,allthe
pipingsystemsareflexible,theycanbend/twist.Soyou
justhavetofollowbasicengineering(routing&supporting)
andthencheckflexibilityinCAESARII.
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DaveDiehl
CAESARIIisoneofseveral"pipingflexibilityandstress
analysis"programs.Theseareanalysistoolsusedto
Member determinethestructuralresponsetoappliedloads(that's
theflexibilityreference)intermsofloadanddeflections
Registered:
and"codedefined"stresses.Youlayoutthepipe,CAESAR
12/14/99
Posts:2046 IIevaluatesyourlayout.Youdesignthesystem,CAESAR
Loc:Houston, IIanalyzesyourdesign.
TX,USA
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DaveDiehl
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2/13/2017 FRPstressanalysisIntergraphCADWorx&Analysis
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CraigB
Member Pipinginstalledinconfinedspacesisstillflexible.The
deflectionsmaybeverysmall,though.CAESARII(orany
Registered:
05/16/06 othersoftwareprogram)cancalculatethemagnitudeof
Posts:378 theexpansion(andother)forces,thedeflections,andthe
Loc:Denver, resultingstresses.
CO
Youappeartobeconfusingtheconceptof"Iknowthisleg
istooshorttoflexadequatelyandwillthereforeproduce
highforcesandmomentsonitsendpoints,"with"this
pipingisrigid."Nothinginthephysicalworldthatweknow
ofisperfectlyrigid,andFRPpipeisnothighonthelistof
contenders.
MostFRPpipehasalowenoughYoung'smodulusthatit
CANberestrainedverytightlywithoutgenerating
unacceptableforcesandmomentsonthesteelterminal
points.Youmayfatigueitwithenoughthermalcycles,but
you'llprobablynotdamageanythingyouconnectitto.But
ofcourseyouneedtodotheanalysistomakesurethat
mygeneralitiesapplytoyourspecificproblem.
ThebiggestproblemwithFRPpipeismodelingthejoints.
Mechanicaljoints(threadedorclamped)haveinherent
flexibilityatthejoint.Lappedbuttjointsarestifferthan
thesurroundingpipe,althoughnotnecessarilystronger.
Andyoucangetintoreallyfunkysituations.
Youareprobablybestofftogetthesystemvendortodo
thestressanalysisheshouldhavemoreexperiencewith
hisparticularproductthananyone.Butyoumaywellbe
toolateintheprocurementcycletomakethishappen.(We
putthisresponsibilityonFRPvendorsasamatterof
course,upfrontinthebidprocess.)
This,Iguess,isalongwindedwayofsayingthatIagree
withtheotherpostershere.Designthepiping,modelit,
runit,andseewhathappens.
_________________________
CraigB
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Dick
Dobson Thankyouallverymuch.Iunderstandnow.MostFRP
Member systemsifnotproperlyanchoredandsupportedfromthe
effectsofexpansionandcontractionduetopressuresurge
Registered:
11/22/05 andtemperature,willfailatthefittingduetoexcessive
Posts:5 bendingload.Apipingflexibilityandstressanalysis
http://65.57.255.42/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8449 3/5
2/13/2017 FRPstressanalysisIntergraphCADWorx&Analysis
Loc:Tulsa, programwouldcalculatetheloadsbasedontheinputofan
Oklahoma anchor,support,orguidelocationatthefitting(changeof
directionorbranch).Theoutputcalculation(s)wouldbe
comparedtotheallowablebendingmoment.Isthis
correct?Doyouhavetomakethecomparisonmanually?
Youenterthetypeofsupport(anchor,guide,orsupport)
andthedistancesawayfromchangesindirectionand
branchlines.
Youdesigntheinstallationofthepipingandthenusea
pipingflexibilityandstressanalysisprogramtocalculate
thebendingmomentstoseeiftheyarewithinthe
allowable.
_________________________
DickDobson
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Chuck
Becht FRPandothernonmetallicpipingsystemscanbefully
Member restrained.Thisispracticalbecausethelowerelastic
modulusresultsinanchorloadsthatarenotunreasonably
Registered:
01/16/05 high.Byfullyretrained,Imeanwithmorethanoneanchor
Posts:51 inastraightrunofpipe.Thisisevenrecommendedby
Loc:USA someoverflexibleinstallationstolimitpipingmovements
andresultingissuesatsupportlocations.
ThedefaultB31.3stresscalculationswillnotincludethe
stressduetoaxialloadsinthethermalexpansioncase,
whichshouldofcoursebeconsideredinafullyrestrained
system.IfyouusetheAppendixPrules,thestressdueto
axialloadscausedbyrestrainedthermalexpansionwillbe
included.
InanFRPsystem,youmustknowthedetailsofthe
specificsytemyouaredesigning,includingthepossibility
thatthejointsmaybeweakspotswiththeloadsonthem
limitedaccordingly.
_________________________
ChuckBecht
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vcrao
Member whatissoftwaretobeusedforFRPPIPINGFORSEA
WATERLINEOFSIZE:20"FRPPIPINGJOININGTO66"CS
Registered:
11/11/06 CEMENTLINEDPIPEANDPLATEHEATEXCHANGERS.
Posts:1
Loc:saudi ANALYSISDONEBYISO14692ISACCEPTBALEORNOT.
arabia
PLSGUIDEUS.
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http://65.57.255.42/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8449 4/5
2/13/2017 FRPstressanalysisIntergraphCADWorx&Analysis
NEELAM
ISO14692Part3isrecommendedifoneislookingat
RAJA
Member
performingastressanalysisofFRPpipingsystem.Ifound
itveryusefulandisagoodguide.
Registered:
04/21/01 EventuallytheFRPsupplier'sguidelineshavetobe
Posts:62
considered.
Loc:India,
Australia(Perth)
Haveyoursuppliersupplytheallowablestressenvelope
beforeyoustartyouranalysisbasedonISO14692.For
typicalstressenvelopeagainPart3ofISO14692shouldbe
ofahelp.
Ifpossible,youmayconsidertheanalysisoftheFRP
portionbyyoursupplier'sengineeringdeptandreviewit.
EditedbyNEELAMRAJA(11/12/06 06:55PM)
_________________________
NeelamRaja
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