..

~- MR. BtrG1.IOSI

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

- FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

DEPARTMENT NO. 104 HON. CHARLES H. OLDER, JUDGE

./~
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA,

vs.
Plaintifft
172
No. A263156
CHARLES MANSON, SUSAN ATKINS,
LESLIE VAN HOUTEN, PATRICIA KRENWINKEL,
Defendants.

REPORTERS' DAILY TRANSCRIPT

- APPEARANCES:
For the People:
Friday, January 29, 1971

VINCENT T. BUGLIOSI,
DONALD A. MUSICH,
STEPHEN RUSSELL KAY,
DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS
For Deft. Manson: I. A. KANAREK, Esq.
For Deft. Atkins: DAYE SHINN, Esq.
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For Deft. Van Houten:
.. MAXWELL KEITH, Esq
- For Deft. Krenwinkel: PAUL FITZGERALD, Esq.

VOLUME 172 JOSEPH B. HOLLOMBE, CSR.,

-
MURRAY MEHLMAN, CSR.,
PAGES 21813 to 21902 Official Reporters

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 21813

. l LOS.. AHGILlS CA.1.lJORIXA, DlDA-Yt .JAlWUY 2.ft 1971 .,

4
f:-30 .otclock. a ....

5 .Q~ of ,tti. r:oWtt.! .out o~ the prHnca of tbe ju;y,

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6 ti. J,{afXJ4ttti.ta and t~ att:oxi:iaJ ~ eotm: tbM colltt

1 ,:apoi:tJt and ti.. btltf f only be~. p,:e.-n t!')
a , S .xi..Il 1t thit it 'l*n n.u.t.,. yow: i!oa.ot..
'tBB C01$Tt ~ l un.S.xatan4
. y~~ lrant to
9 t.llt to
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. J.JJllCJl IAlttt
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}lonot, ;t ~ 4 lib to be .

n '1P 4 :ft-Qll h'ttht% j~1. dutJ ~: _ 'l lH'1 X hav Aoue 1

. -i2 r;i:viQ d\i.ty and l bVt ff.lY and t>tbr tldng to lalt
. ' ~ " ' '

'"~omint tui~
-
rs car of .~4 lt: 1 Tdl:7 a batd1b,lp.
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al<> 1 that :,.~~ of ay 1:4iCJtt , b~Rd
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Qn th ~ct that tMf i 11tronaltt-1 diffte nce bt1Mt-11 :
a.
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. - l6 .. Mr, Muxt.:1 a.4 -..y,,11,

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l J'1t. 4onYt fl lt. i4orth. - . ', ~
1
11 it,. per,on ally.
18 : l c:an boMttly. 1ay t~t t~ 1 opi,nion1 . . , c:f:vi\1
. . . ~ .

19- :: dutr en4-4 when i'bay br~ught..111 .~ ye~dlot.. ~ t f. the

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21 X want out .. - . i. .. .;t

~ . . . .,. .
I

21m conr= W.11,. n.o qde&t!ox.i a'bot.tt . it, tou. have ..dou .
-f ' 'I' t 'I,, : I "f ' ,,#' I'

. 22
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your: .cuv1~ du.ty. ll9WV1:, th :~1-vf.9 )!u.t1 J;u,,f ~<>t ,.n@d. ~ .
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In -this ld.tt.4 of c l:M ptnalt; r trial 1 .lab pdt <>f

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 21,814
1 01:M~ aitenatea. ~ do )'O\l 1(aJlt - t:o do, '.brUIJ my kids
UJt ~4 &av t . . ,1t f~ tlli .;~~~lic=ef _ .
s '
cctde.nt..
lllff7 ~" j ,.

u.cl - lw-4 ~ i;:OJIOillf:l,n;

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.q -~ D4.t1Tt l biQlf that., bu.t. thJ. point

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s go_..... to qQ en of th.ea I ' ' t

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9 .m QlUIT; . :t ~ t the l,a1is of J'O'l11T 3te.-1tt

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lO . mur: Tb.at i ,~t 'Qf it, ,.... all of the
ll', thirt11 #08*1:hls:.
J juat &1 1 have ~Qcud: ti. aucl of tl.1e lb-

1:s 1:BI Com: I YOU'I!' wit. i.a.ca,-oitat. at. CM._

n-1- tiNt
~s . Dl'Uf:st. canot -drive., aQ.IJ_lha t .taktq
1~ .-di-ct~ U:4 .ii. ~ . OQJ.1.~aioil.
-'
11 Sl1ll t l'k* 1 but Jbe QIQ:UlOC . ..tve.
1a $_Q011.1!1 Who,,..:,~ plo,-~7 '
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- 19 : a. M.Vrt 1fba Stte ot 'Califomia J>ivllc.\1 cf
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.20 .HlahwY.-
21 . rd .count . low 1t,Jag if; ,our wU. &Qiu& to- be
inoapaottte 4t
2s: Ma. DllJ!t I .doQ:t t ka.OW, the. ac.lt i.,c '-1:
24 mo,:a,-. ..
-.2$ ,aa COUl!t W -~ b9,pltali*8dT
26 MR. llAff: lo, Wd bottut:tct: fox o ,lay~ 'but
 1 -~bad, ba4. tQ take .can; of the kids ao the C.- hau*
-~ Hf -,t~r-ill.-ln liv 1'itb ua bu.t ~ bad a
s 1tx:op lQt ,_...r and ahe doe not haft 1-r fa.c11ltita ..
. ., .
4 1'B! COOR*tt O_f qoUJ!N OM of ti. 9:r9hl... t .... it
s. i t.._ " have fiva altemt.t.l! but_ w ba"M no 1 of
6 : bowin.1; ,r~tlwr .an:, -01: al1 nf thm ratay k UMcl.
1 _1 botf it ia budaidp ,on 11 of tb 'j~r.
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8 b cu- t .going lc;,qet' ~ ,anyb,od:, bad a,;tUiJlipaUd,
B\lt tba penalty phaH t, d&finiu1y pa1;t of
t1:le. t~i1. ~ fct they CGlia back lth aid.tty vai:cU.e~ ,,,
il only ti. wa ol that" i,arttoular ptu.asc. ~
MR. DAVl: B# yot.t. cm 1 po~t that tt.t ia .ru1t

1'3 t'M 0.nl7 pcart of JAY .PX'Qb~. ,Thi 'W~Y I f1 t~xe. are
14

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tM othe~ ~iw,a...
- ~ CQtJilT: .of'
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41lT-diffu:enc~.
Mt" w *=Y; I Q&O.~ nllT 1,Jndtt~~ hpw ~t. c.,., .affact
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i,ith
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to-.u:' tfaty a jur.Qt.

1~ What o~t of :dttfrence, -~ :,o~ tlltltlJ, .about! ,
19 JW11:. We jult Ca,tm.Qt' get 10111 OU ...,._thtttg that
20 hap~n. ll ..... to be. at N 11 th.ti t1-..
-21 nm COUlTt What. c]Q. you. anj t YQU, in what 'W&)'?
22
Klt. Attt: M111ttlc th~ua thf.~ 1-p})4tna., like
23
yeatu~7, .an xap-1-, .t could. l\Ot pt Y liu.:tndi::, ~

... 24

25

26
- bc;aua .Jir; *=Y aaict. l. a,P'ttt .ovr th 11*.it la1t week .
Wall, hall, 1 c-..-
t.. ,.u 1 .ltdf h.olale.. wb,(r
11 going_ 110 ccma aild bi:-ing it bck.t I 'bxoupt ~ hete 7

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2 _ 1obl~ X , if your laW.ld.tY "tU.111 ovx :a-_ little 'bt.t
~ nol)ody i .aoins to . . . an tu.a out of that.
4 Ma.: _lWtl: l bow it 1 but th-.t 11 jat an x..pl of
5 . t,.ow; .11.u:rY - 1 j'Q.tt 4o11 1t &t along.
6 fli,E -COUl;T: '-1d .f.111 1 t ,0111tbitag that HJ:. Jflitray
7 = up fo,: ht:1 O'M1i pe;-1oul b,nafit 1 }tt. n.tut. U. 1,
s tiy~ to can, out the poltct 'that ti.ft 1-n t, tlutt
~ i -11... a. iJdoins hi dut:l ju,t 70-.i ar dQ~
lQ' 7ol.a, You. bt. fault hR for that~ do you?
F Ml.. DIJJT.1 l fqlt bta for bt"il1g bt.Md.
12
w lol,, ~ l a or Gen. llQllllld
. I fl if it:
lvlyq lU:M, he 1fottldrit ha.v ..1.a l).Othu.g to tble ..
--
1i '' . o:t
14 TSE' COUl'ti 1 thi'nk. th .an tnattn "1:lich hould 1*. .
is overlooked.
i6- . -~- littr1 Maybe tb,7 ~ld, . but; Lt :t ,alt pn't of
17
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tM ball of yq-.
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t' ~4o, :nothi;na lH Q.d that
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20 - ut. y~e X #tilt ha,,_ 1, ~ _W t<>: tlad.
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till. hav ay owit -~obl.. I- tt11 hav T o,m 11:,;
22

A11 of ~he tbin&$, put -tolt-tbu',
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tqbt Nld .. ' t,j\ J, , ' I "'\ ,fl

24
1:1$ court: welt, t 'cia~attilt Ull.dtl:ttd 7Qur (:.att,

- -25

26
.daai-.r to have tbia tbtng nd we c .al1 in the 1:ame
boat. Evr1ou -.o~14 lib to it tmlnat, and it will:

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l1nfortunat1Y tll.1 bav 10ll6 dt1ta,:ia.
to go. lf t ex~ juror ........ you.. knoit', there if no Off.
4 a.013, :t<J txcuee )".c\t -t1*1 ~rb.ap1 -a haU do-.n of tlml1

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5 and I ob.viou,17 Catl1lot do that. ..
. o . - DAtJ!1 X can ,horut~Y ..,, J_.t had. a ting ,
7 \tptira thet "" ollac;l b7 #M fol'-.ao., u.4 tbtn~ r only
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mg CQURTt. Ooly 'What!
RL llA.lltt tWQ. o-'.

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onl.7 two :df li w~ to 1-.ve.,
'tba~- I

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.Berman ju.t. call.I a
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\tpJttr 1- -1nutJ ago
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15 w 1-4 a oig d.11QU11lon about cl11., ..w.t. t~r 1 ' on1f

1ei, ' two of ua ho Atxprd. ,tr t.c;,. lY~ ho fl the -
11 . ..,. t do.

. 1s flli COUIT: l N --~ you. Who- ! t1- otbu

19 . -oriel
20 Ml-. ~ : .Jo~r ll.U..
21 Bl COUUl Well, t 1t1l1 4i1Cijla tld.- uttr with
22: th.ta attotnet- Mt. ..ut, an.d giv it Olll caftfut thought
~- 1lf.
2.4 . t 'ld.h you. 1'0014 i:econt4er tt,_ howevtr ~

- 26. piobl...
Ml..ii JlAlJt: l. .cannot do it$, yo~ llono,:., I have got;
of ., "lfife ki12& ill . , - - ~ to tee cue of

 .21,11,
1
ay chttdr.-i-: H)t .otbe ~!n 1- :* not: bau be~ -..nta l

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i fqult d. : , ~ Ii ha.4. bu. t1!ob .
3,
Up U.O.tf.1 ~ \tto acc:l.4-n.t it ' t too bad,
4
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'b.ut t\.o'tf' 1 oa=o t gett :aro\Ul.d,. lt' Ju.t hq,t.>ible.
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m. COUITt .AU ilht_. well, I 1fi11 cona:Lda:a: it
6- t~ftl lly ..._ 1t:. you..
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know, ..,:.
TM vuy ach.
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1 (!1:h toll~wlng proceed~ ocoiu- in-ohambera.
2 Ail counsel. PNnt ,_ J?tndant .a;i,)ant. )
.s.- 'i'.HE C:OVRT: , .u:i counel ,l'e prent.
4 With reaptct to the mb.b.iona. that wre tild bt
$ Mr.Kanank iteJtdaJ;.
,
I am going
.
to oave t.o p'U.t the.m onr
(; to. Pl'.mit . the. Count:, Oounael to l>~par wha.teYer htl ear to
1 . ill o~po,1tion
. . ..
' 8 J,!R. BUGLIOSI, .M.&1 :t briefly l> h&rcl on. that?
9 'Tlill COUB.~t t-
lO
11 l.l't 'iru,e,. JOU Honor, .BO wh.a.t?
All th:1 $a go1ng to do ta alandt~ this ,roman a

., 1s : . repu;atton-.
14. On. '.OhltU'll J.1, last. nJgbt; my .wit a:t4 ahe saw
1s a dra;tt~g ct th woinan. and an aUegatU,n that- li ia turning_
16 to. alcoh(>l.
*1 :. Mt point :la t.bat v. aelumin& th.t. h 1a
ilf d~~ni. b~ dOl&\'&t10J.1 ii,aelt aets tortb noth:lng
1'>- ao:1;1-qnabl.e, and X think b7 h&V.tl'ifi the Coun~1. Co~l brough't; --

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22 . MJl. .BU'GLIOSI t I aat orr,:-,

;4. : declar.a1i1on:,.

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on~y aaume that. Mt'. lanarek -
underatan.4 thia kind or a motion. It 1a oh1owilg don
ma'licioualy with intnt to lander thi woJl!Al'i without
w~ll, it l nard ~or me to

anY

s tactual }yaa-ia wbiteve,r.

(i . T4e declare:t;:Lon ittl,t 1, abou~ third-,..&te nean:v-..
7 even -$,t it were trl,l.e., eYen . it Y~l'Jthi~g in th~ .
:A,nd

8 aeo1art1on were trq, it wouldn 1t ~tabliah .anYtbi~g-tba~

9 ha -any ~ltvance.
to . MR.. .KANARlUt: Well ,-our Honox- _..;.
n THE QOUJ.ift :t dont want to- li,ar tro-. 1ou., Mr. Kanarek,

i2 l will: g1v you a onance- to be- heard a:tf;'tiii~ ~roper tiae ..

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13 ., B1,1t that t my .ee-.-ii,, abo~t it~ '

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Ht.. MR. ~AREK; vit::r1 w.ii.: 1.:un~ratand.

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15 YQ~ J{onor has , JQ.d a ata:t~men~ ~'7 : ; .

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THE COU.R'lh I d.on-t want to htar; any .r,plf ~t th1 _till\-
. . ' ~ ~ . .
11 aut it J Ult d,ef:tea 1m~gituit~Qtl .that a kft-pon.aible .
attorn1 wou,J.d. engage in tnia: kind ot p:r;-ac~ice.
~
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~ '-. . " ' I 'i , :" ; :

MR.iANA.REl\ i Woll, JO.Ur li9nor, her r>wn huaband has

stated that, h wc;,ul.d be -co-.roed. b.y th -ot:hl.' J-uro~.
~HE OOURT: Mr. Xanarelt, I 4on1 t. W*ln\ to bea~ ~o~ you
at 1;bia time., I will. give yo I.Tl oppo.rt.unity to l)e h&l.'d - ....
23
MR . lCANA,RElt! 'Vr1 ll, iJ'OUl'- Honott
. 24
I. .did no.t.sonerate tht~ hray

. 26
THE _.COURT: ...-
a in,otion ot sold .kind with .t'~gard to-
on what can laucningly be dtacri\;>ecl
Mr. lli.n.a
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r~ l "q1i1et1Ql1 .rbur. go~d taith
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l Bui aa I a1 ii;
.. ,. ... .. - ' .. 'f ' ... ... t

ia obvioulJ don witll m.a11o.to\l1 i~ient,-. 111 ., opiiliQn;

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nth-ou.t. -.n1 b1ii w.hatv~

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MR. l(A.NAREK.t xour Honor 1, pre~ u~st~
. ,
5 THE OOURlJ!: a .baa:l~I .tt on 'Wbait .70\l. h&Ye t&id in
I
cS 7ou.r- clarat1~n, :sz.. X-anu-- Tllat ..1 wJ).a.t I J>ao1ng .mJ
1. etatemen't on.
a Mtt. KA.NWlti Wel~~ jour ~~n.o:r, it 1<>n .ta- drinJcing
ij':. whil ,hey u --
..1~-- 1r ,::iu; COUR~ i t don~-
. want
. to bear ~011 101.1 now:.- I
11 w$11. atve you *' .chanot to be hee;itd,
l~ . Now, ~n ot t.h -altemat Juror, xr. l>a"tl"tl,. baa.

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aske4 to b -xeu1ea..
Xtio~dq and
Hi
h 1 lUlabl to driw.
.11othr-in~w l~ ?i'Vin& with them.
81 wite wa1 tn an aooig.en.t on
He ha Joung ohil<h.'A

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.I know th1# t~om h'Vinl had him in chaiab~ th1
:J.7 mo.ming,. Jt 1 on th reoo:rcl.1 .and I can ha..v "'the re_po~vr
.
18 .t-ea(l blok our conversation. it yo. lik;. lt will "be a p.art
19.
or th tie4qJ-cl.
20 lie asked to ~ ,. .and I ~id llu, and -t.bat
i 1. . 1a bi~ l*,queat.. that lie be e~ouae.d.'!
'22. :

23 . '

26 .
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la-1 JlR,. fl;fZ.GiRAT.l>t cou1d l. ~ a teark off tlle

1
~rkT May .go .oft.' tha X'f:ilord.?

2
Ta CUI.T: All .~ipt.
(An oif the ,:ec.,rd 41cu1,;t.QD. ,,,. ~d-)
4 . .
~ COUii J _ We will 10 baok on. the ra~o'rd.,,.
.5:

6 .
Mil. YlTZCE!t4n: Tb det~d#n-=. aud ch of t'bllt 1 by
thei-i: -sounul~ wou1d .off,: to. st~:pul.~ tbat Mr. a.u.t1
1

8
tbct .~It.ma~ jUt"or,. u7 ~ excuaed for caute _..., ~ 1 be.
:xcuf! by attpulti.oll, -2C:Cti&fl ~-
Ml. llJGLIOSti Thia 1'aop1e. IQ ttp\tlah.

ll.
TIil com: Al.1-rf.~ . ~n krit ,n.u.t will be ~cuncl.

1~
."Will Y"Qu -.k - ;. .ut .tc, dOM c,i, dowtl1
(Whereupon . aut nt~ ttw court.. cb.abua '
l' ...

.m.4 ti. f'o'llowiba p,:oceadhg: ocuri)

...
ftl COlJllf.t . lit, ?Jattt 1 now pr.Hnt.
16 -
CnMl haff agned b:t etipulatlqu,. l(t,. .o.ut._. .

11 td xc&l,t yo1,1 ftom; iutttbar -.-rv1c1 - Juror. .

.18
I vill., ho1Nlvi, ()rear )'O\l to 't"e&ain f,:-Qm.

20
Juror 11n~t,1 tb ca1 ia over,
. ., Ma. DA.ur: All ~tght ..
~

21
CODftt 1. 1~ovtr.,'' t llWX. until tat Juxy h
23 nt=nd a ve,:-dt.ct in tl).e ,Clty pbt, .tf they do tetun
' va~c'U.ctt o,r until that hav bten
'-_ ;c ;
ewcuM4 fr fw:tber

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.m,.ytut,, 1-d. 1th othai: jurorr. tt.Mx 1- CQm:t
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or O\lt.
3 of co.m:t..
4 MR-. DAW: t'-
..s - ft COUlT: Or. yQ.r OJllt n.fl~tiont -.tl c~nt (Kt.

6 the t~ll~ p.( 0- foi:tb. ..

7 , J>A\JTi . ~ )'OU 'Mr,' *1ch.
m. C01Jft1 And l do wih ta. tbuk yqu vrr au.oh. ,l
9
knaw thi Jua ken dUiete for 7ot1. and. all tu otbe.r
. .
j.u,:oxa.,. d on 'beh.aU ot all lbe oounael and -on "half of
ti. Court. tb.t. Q.Ou# of tld.1 1tat -am.cl tlMl popl
' ' .
of thi
12 CQuntry, l, VUt to tlwjk y-o1i Vetf llU.ch for 70"1' V&lutbl

- .15.
pu'b1tc pr,tce.,

cu
. _ Al. Yo\1. .,:an wlt app,:eo:ta~ ~ it 1~ -un\ltual
frOlll ti.. tn.dpof.11t of ju:r~r, ud pxobab11 t.bt-
. . '

16
loq,at that M.JJ.'1 juror Ml 'l' beta, que,terff. in any ,/
l.7 .
e1tu, *> fa X bow.: :- ~
18 la. au.7 , ...1:., ~-x it ia a :nco~d. _QJ: \lCS't
19 :
is
.
'
.
1.ud'llpO~tant. 11:Ml\tact i# t:~t J.Qtu: tet\fice
-
-
he ~n
'

'
'
'
< ....

e~ly. valu-.bt. tQ the Po11 of th:C 11:.-t, and: l:hlt '

~
...,.
?l' .. .P<\ an; p-salul fo~ tt.. i 1 '
t --, ~ ....
.
' , I 1 ' ', .I

Ht~ J.lAUT: fl:aartk ,oat W'tT -.ch,. your Honor . ~ l .

24 I
-apprc.:ta~ the fact thatt you. a1:41 f.aa
~r 11:ba !
oi.t',ct.1ilatanc;e,.
-25
. ','
'8E COUl!t l hope emat 70\lr ri ! bett1r. , .
26 .
llAltl: Ybank j"Q\t.
 ' ,
.2a-) 1

2
"' .
't'H& COUITl lfflf tb4tu, u thAlt ~ othat =attu1?
.3
I tbbik l 1'11.1 Nb. $1, SDnOl.lllce1*1l.t i,n optn .

eoun'81 at hta wll;. i.t1 ...,- I doat vant to word

it: 'tn tuch way #:hat it. Orut Jl!O~ p,:obl... thln it.
7
:IQlv
1 'thtak l will j.uat leav it. that way. t
9
- Jtipqlati.Op, of. d.1 c;oun,J. t hi xqtt4tat,. he ha ban
10
xcu.ed, 1fithou.t going into thi detail.
'11
I .is. a11 on the 1:cord, l .aay. tou will. p
1,2- "
4 Qopy :of tbll trtt.lpt ot 1 convel:'j:ation vitb. Mr. Daut
in ~ch hit t 9,:th bi tao111 fQ~ :Lt ..
14
X tba;e. u,thins else.?
MR~ fl'J!ZG!i.ALD1 ~~e. 1 ano~~ JU.ttff.
Y
lt 1, our w;idtratanding, tu defi:u1ant,
17
1U161.tina. t~t ti. ,pro ..e,t;ttiQ;11 - and _it may MPP4Q'l
18
tou7 ...-. int:u.da to p;tt OXl nidenc con@~ .anotQ'1:
" .
"{
' 19
hQld.cide to Su~. Atkint.. A.ltd without ....tt~ into:
20
1:1- rlt# of the. admlaaibi1ity . .o.f ubat uatimony, one
2i .
a1}1*Ct -of tbk can ia gotng to 1Mt t~ atu.ptd -,u!ld;iol\
into :I.den~ of certd.11 pbotoarph that perhtp JQdr llotiO
23
ougl\t to t.ue a look .t..
24
Xhaw blen to~itd 1tith ~r of .llW%4'.t-
\uiu and l hav. n -a - ~ of _photopapba., 'but -this
-at vY, ver.1, vexy awt*' pbot011taph 4'

Cie1~ ..
UL.II Ive.com
.
 And ltd l:IA to foiat o\lt that,, Ulllin&,
ffgU.ndo- 'tqt. tbM ,eviNnN of tiut othe~ AOt.d.cide !a

,2
, .
t,,ihl. mtba )$J1&1t:1 pl\aM of ti- trial. tlm_ .pro.-cutic~.
4 . .- uy not -PJMtl to the p&11ior1, cf t~. juror,.. Atwl 1:bttM
,5 . var,~ VffY l>dly c(dl)ote4
pbotbJt@b.1 ara auch,. -~- 1

2b~ s.. 6,

8
bod1, ~th, thottU~U o~ N1&0J: crawltpJ ta .and out ot th
bpdy, .,ni.,. ue. ho=1b1.
' .
JrP,,...
9

.10

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i~

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14

15

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18
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22
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23

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 21,827

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1

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3
Ma. lt'liZGEiWiO: ~h boa, ~t
The1$tt photograpll" l would s.ay to- Y(?V.1
.
one oar;,

.
Htruna~. -~- _,
i'
,-ar,; ,dr,
1
4 ta.r mp,:,e grutaom.e than &ny. ot the
~
. .
photograp~,-~_
\
adin1tte(l. in
~
'
. .
'

the case J;n chtt.. . ..,, ~ .: . ~

. . ,' ~ : ... ~ ~ ,j . ;-
~be onlJ "uon l bring it up now is 10 that 10-ui -.t '
~ ,c,. ..
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~
~ I, ~
J' ,._ \ ?f
1 U.t,nor ...;..
' . l, ...
' ...
'l2Hm ootntr.r:
. '

~ .\r. \ ... ~

' ... '9 'l'opan~a Canyo~. 1 : .

10, .
.
Ml\. Bl!GLIOSI.i that' r11ht" ht
'
"'a,. but 1t don 1 1-- knew

'Tnere ar ~ggote. 1l'~Y ire xtremel1. :sr,ut,~me: ,

.
12

13 photograph,.
- ot
m:ar coUR~t What would be th rel:ev.a11ce the

,15 photogittpl). that (.1.on "~- acc\U"tlv depict 1 tor example, tll.
. 16 ; - body ~t t:tte tiu ot the or1-..?

thQa.e :i,hotosr~pht ~t th& aoeru~ ~ywa.1 ~

- . ;
'

fhY. r in -q:olor.
. 'i9- - M~.. FlTZGPJRALI>'t Y9u aN nott .
i-
. 20 MR-.' l30GLlOSX::i . Just tll CQ~Oner.t . ~
-.
, 21 ',' MR. Sl:tINN: l'ou told you ,wt-ra going to i~trbduoe

23 ~m. BiJG):ilOSI.i .Jtt:.t the- 'bit.ck.-and-.lf hii Cororter

' -
!',A.
'
p~otographs..,
MR .. F!TZQERALJ;J,1

MR. KAl':
Jut they &l't b.oi-rible, t9o~
Sut tber. re rleva.nt 'Tb coroner baa to

.. -', , (_~Aini wave.com

 21 828_

i teatify_ t.rQJrl tboae photographe.. ~hey !JhO~ ,'the ,tab 'WO'tlnOfS ,

2 and. tn~a COi'l:'pon4 :wtth Susan Atll:1"'"'' coriteaion,. ~h
lOijati-0~ and th n'Wllbr
MR. ' BUGLIOSl t I ~ght sna~e one OOll,lUnt..
During
.
th ponalty trial. .the Pople . ~a.n:ap~eal
' ...... ~.

6 to .tn.f# _p-.aaion ot the 3,up_y.

#
,.
, ~'.
J. /
1 '
i. , ,

~-.,.' . . , .... , t .

Xn ta~t t _t think tber6 1& /1: _o'a1e~ vhf~: .tlie Oo\U!t

t - .~ ..... <.-/ . .

1natJ'uc:~et4 the jury ~sing th~ :aa.m.e _-1n~t-rv.ot1on _as .4~1ng T

}
Ir-

.. ;."i ....
:II

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:~ .:. / .= ~:',
_1;2 f
TlfE COURT: I believe, unlea11 I.. P lld.ataken, tllat:.
r V }
: .
l ~
1i ~., Buglio~J.' ia oo:rreot, but the- P~Ob1't1v va..).ut .still haa
, i4 to ~ut1tt,:t~ th prejud.;lotaJ. e~tect~
, -. ls M~,. liITZGKIW,D: , ~ght.
l4ll.: BUGLXOSl; or ioui-ae. .
,l7 ~BE oouai:
. . And that, or co~e) . ti a q ueat1on ~ a
' - .
18 -det~iainatton tu.~ the Gort 4a~ to .maka.
e .19 , , . : 'Well, all I o.-n *Y is;, e;ent;emen, ~ hol' thia
i:-
' . . ~

2_0 - pena._lty; .Ph. 1 xp\11-ted becau-.e .I can,, e an,

.,, . ' .
. ~! -: b~nt~t to ithr 1d in dr.aggi~ it out_
-~. :: MR. SRflh. On _other- matter, f0\129 Ho-nr.
~a : _Tho de.tndant, \f$.tlt. t.o lD.J$1'. a.t lWl.ch title . tat" halt

2~ . ' 'rHE .90UR'r f l)et-en,.,

,26 MR., $llIN1-l: )layb hortr 'than .~hat. I -tlotr't lmt1w.
 . ' '

. I it po~1bl,.vou:.r Hono~?
.2, THE COURTi A Joint -deten in a Pna1~y pha"l
NR, .SllIN.lh 'lld.- attmoon._ during th~ lunch hour.

:t don I t .knoll w}la.t th1 Yant t.o talJt a11out.

Ma. BU.GLIOSJ! = 1lha.t i.t ia raining OUt.ide, -.rid tht ~ant
,' '

s. "
~ , j

Ml'{. SH!Nlit .:J.rOO to lt.30, 'youi- Hon,ort. .

v;. :.'
"
J.O ' ~~ ~OUR'?: Will.\). au.b~o:t .:t~ ~+:i~r"t~!
~h.' titA
! ... ~" ,i ~-~,, , ..
H: -Sher.itt 1 s prob1.,_, art 1n >lloY:1tig th~. a11oun,g ind tor lWlCh~
'
"i.
' '1,

and ao.' oii,,

.
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but. tlle1 1 i t9sF11e~; ~
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19

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' 22 :

'23

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 1

.4
2 ; pJ'ac.ee"1,?
a
Mr.. Xan:rk1 a-
;Ae I. t 1 l ltill hv to. put tl'.le boar1~g. .o:d
~t:Lone .<>ver UJi.tll pt-Qb&l11J aoNti ii,e week,
5 Pl'Qblbl; I.bout.._ k~ t~. stv t~ C.o~t1 c.omu,el an oppoJt-

". ..
1 J'l'J.1 OPiCit,;,n thJ ,rant
. .
a So;_tntt1vlY;
. X think I w~ll ~ it to~ aw~~.
. .
9 ti-oa toda,.
. .
10 MR-- 1WiARE1't .Iot'u- ._Honoi-,. it :t 1 1 an4 l'. u u.r J'OW

'
11

12
lt~QV f thogh
.
1ou.r Hopoit ~a1
.
pre.t:v no~ tq attaok 'the -Oo'IU"t 1 1 ntegx-.tt.7 --
a1;t-.aoktd. V 1nttgi:.itJ I I_ .
. ;,
. . ~ . .r.
.
J,s . ~ COURf l l 1fO.Uldn.1 ti think ~at lf.Q\llcl l,.e A'afoo~ id.ea..

l ...
' .
.. /, r/
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, ' .~ ' . . I

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ftlft.' K.INABSi: ~he~e ia t10 1uoh t.)11\l-
...
;cont4111pt ot .
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.
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1"'

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law;vl' in OUJI lilt 1t. . il'htrtt'
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ia :oont-.,iit 'ot : 1
oo~~ bui. I ' 1 "'",
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:- .. :: :.. -~P : t h ~ 't.b8.J'e .ahoulc!l - . ,

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:' . . ~u touaw: Jfa1ti J4U. r $Qil):g to: in'ftnii -~m,'tihinc n . J,
.. .... .J '

i. _' ._.,is . bet'ore ~ cu 11 ote:tt.

. ~
.... ! ~ ~

' i"
' ,19 Ma. lWIAREK.: ~o, it J.a not a J11&tt1tr o~ 1nvent;ia'.
....
20 ' -.olll.eth1rifh fh :i.aw 1 dlnaaio 1 J-Qln' Hanoi".
'.
,2f ..
.. . .

couai: u
'!'
., -' . iHE you ~ ao-.1;.hint ta a,-~, ge-1; .t.o- -th
,.
. 22 . .
. . : pQ~t:, M.r .. Xan&Nk.
.23 .
Q,. ~ABEK1 t'-- lnd; tn1r 1&- tb1i. . I aay l don't
. .
. -~ . ttanu to, oenJinlJ, tb.e ~-1~it1. ot' th OoUl't, ,an(!

ai.tac,k.

~5- ,: I.aJ thta-, 'I ~hint that tll Oourt 1 'be1~ 41latory on tbia .
1t
26

: and l .t&y it ln ,bia mattnei- i
.,
~a~ tll
~O\ttttY. Oo'W1~. bas no ..

.. CieloDm,e ..
. .can
 'r . po4ition in tbi, or need h~:ve poaition tor tbta reason -"' no
;- .

' . 3-

4
, . ?HE oouair: ! .-.,111 :ma)c tbat -af:~nat1-on, .
.
_MR. WARElf: l
.

.
Wna~ t
.altl t:ryt~e: to convinct th Co~t.
ttim. aa1i11g 1 1.hia.
.
.

!l'he
.
point :1 t~a.t th'
.
5 aeo~ity aapee~~ we a:,e_ not dealing with curity p.r

.. " .
'
6 htwe t tryi~g tQ_get oro 1 ~
l\BE COURT: not gai~ -tro cl\ltter up.
Mr i K~x.-ek~ l am
8' .. :bhe .retst?rd .with ~J mor,e or JO\U' oonwen~- I t-old C\t that
' ~ l .

I wo~ld par- ygu ~t the.t~ ot th& hari~g on th aottona.

: . 10- MR~
'
.KANARElt: v,r, wll.
.
ll . I va,t~ri~g.tooonvince th~ CQurt.
.. 12 THE. COURT: ihe Peopl ot tbi
. .'
Coun~, h&v. rtah.t ~Q

oppoee .a Jtott,on- wh1Cb- $it, in fttct a.ttaoking the o~nduct

. .
14 , 01: thi~ -trial-.<?r the ~tQ.utit,1 atr~;,,.su11en1; aurl'ounding th ..
, 15 trial. . .

'16 . l don t know what )'Qt.tr point 1:a, but it to.u aJ.'le
' ' I ~ ~ ' "1 ,~ ;~ { ~ ,f

l7 1ins. that yqu bJve th right to .t1l

.
' \. .
& ~t1on '1'id noboclf
' 1 ..

t~
: .
rn. , na .a ~1gbt to oppos it, I
',. ,
dia~btt' o:t.$Ju~t .. o_.,. , ,;-- ', ,
~ou . l . ' ,_ . ,
. :;,:- ' J9 . _l)O~:$..on.. I i .. ~ : , ;_ ' "',}:

MR. KANAllEKt What I sa,J:ng, fO\U' Honor., t~. ~at-, ,,

. ~. . '., '
, ot <Q~ '10t1on ;I.a. 'th ata.t ct -1-nd Qt the .1 tlr9rl ~ , 4-i thi
.
;" ',: .. , ; . i .. . ~ point aN .talking aboUi; whthe.i- or -riot th JW1or -~: I
~ t . . ., /1,.

3 2~ '

~4 .

:'
2& :,

26
.

I .1gan11 Jl!"Ne.COITI
 : .,'. 21,1)2
" j 't

oouq.: . na~. t Jlot' ei. _pout .at alt. tt.

\

~t, g9iq-,to-
~ I. \

tn. co
poiut ia wha~ ~ _._.
2
; ., -I!... .1l ... .."" .,. -~ \

a i'n,t-. ,_. oppoitton. to llba'2 you hav put 1n your

4
dfiuilt ..or 7ou,:,.de4;i1.ut~o~-- ~ : : .. . 1 .. 1 . '. ..
. ) . ,, ,' ' . .
5
I.AKOlKt lt ii th.ti hop:t. of the Stat -of

...
i.

s :
tlw l>eopl
tu ~tr 1:~1
t
oJlU 'lfho- halt the t~ ~-. not
.9 . lt tit o.dJ:" po1itlon tbJt ti. ltt o.f m.itJ.4
10
af tht Jurora'ar iuvolvd,
11
raB coun1. k a117 n.t., the -.otiona will 1* put
12
over: .for baittg f:e>.a _ . 6'm i:Q4at at 8145
n"*'
15:
- ~ Mt:JIC
(lio tes,on-)
~

Iba,_ 1:~ appl:,.ao. fu

K
Won

t:ba afRal'lt1 1
t
i

16
~ :la cot.tt:tt.oOlll 11 ctonrMd;. .
' . i1 .
ti. .'--l mta.t "111 h ln:ought iuto
. .iB .
:eourt thi :m.tug. Jfr.-. .,_on w:1.11 not.
.. loweve:i:, 1 1faut to- tell you, Ht.. i.m.t.st,,
----

ir
$irt ,_ .J: 40.n.t th.i1'lt i.t' 1 it: hac baett.' 14 cr,
4q.- of. t1-I C:'m:ougb.ou.t: tht t:ria1 -.- tb.4lt w1-uevn ha
inff.oat: .a dll'f .to ttum to ti. cour=<,.- -4 .cond'1ct
lwdelf -1 a :,zo,--t ..,,.,:. t wi11 pe'Qd.t bbl tQ do ao.
tt ba: ta'ke, atq ot that Jw '.ht.- in. tu
;?5 .

'
put -and. iudlcat b.e 1 acting bt l)a fitb_. I. .,.,. ~t
-26
,
:
- - t-t offr aaa:ltl,. ~t l .uka it. a.n.

"l"':~i~-
~IVC.COITI
 1 fl, 4IO Wo$ 1~ 4lia1,1i.
(Ho 1:1pou1,.)
ii , ..ii:.,

3 l ~ 1 t lulu 7oi+,
Ml. 'lAl(Al[EK; Ya, 7ou.r lo~or .
5 TllE COUll'.ft All ~!pt.
6 W 'rill. )'Ott. in court.
7 . (The following nocedlna - ~ hJ,d in optn
a c<>uxt tu
.
t: "pre.-~ee. att.4 hearing of tha .-.l>ers e>f .the
. .
9 JlA't1 .11 4-ftnd:nt, wf.th tbltt exception. of l(r. Maneon
10 ~~- px-,pnt~ ll c0Utll1 ,rJ;tlt the JX'ettftion of~. ~
n h.tq P>:,,nt l
...
12 TBI COUllTt 4-fenc:Ltnt capt Mr . Manto)l
411 oJ,.. tM
~-~, are pi:..nt.1 -all Cn1 and alt tu jurors ta -~.ut..
4t. 14 ~,. .letllW.tb. at,. at h11 ,:.aq:ue,t, halil 'blten
is. cuAd 'by tipulatio1;1 of all coune1 bca fu,:the,r .hxv.tQ
M - ~ altrnat jurqr !11 th. c.
11 Ara you. n.ad1 ~o p,:qceed ,;ttb. ;rout X411linatien,
18 :K,: 'l.i:iat'k -
19 Hi. nlA'l!l:. le, your H~or, thuk you.
T$: -'Ul'tt -.- of Mt'. CJ!~t
.,,,,
. 21

22 .DEQAlJ>. CIO'Wlt1
23 ca114 .,. wit.., by .and .on behalf -of .th.a hopl~ tQUlllid.
~4 the ,ta( iUt:d tat:tf:led bu'ti:. .fo.l1o,t1u
25, m~ CQ:B.: Will- yo..._ stat )'OUl: na1111, pla-
26
t.nfE Wl'.rNISSt -..mar6 C;<1N
I :t
< :

:. . CieloDrive.cooi
 1
ta Cl:..IU:t You an tlll \Ul,~ ~th,. .,:b:.
MR. ~~; May I l'itlv .j\alt: a --...itt,. .10\tr Honor,
2

I '.

4 '
, Ci.OSI' IJAIIllA!IOlf (COl:ltiliue4)
5., .

'1 . ..
ih.t '240b "'" for bQ1t t.Jch -..r:t~u,:n~~ - ~ -~
s:

10
A

tht. ,. - ~ -
;Q
a~~-
l gueq l oouldrtt re ar .quit . ht>w JIUQh
24 -or 2$, -. . . . . .
Yoa ..,_ ..24 b~ 25' kil?t
-th#. r. k
-lI .

12
Y
A kilo ia ;o'1ghl:, f'lOOf
.p

-- I4
15, :_
'

ttaht-t
Jo-pgh1y, ,-,
xt, f 100; ~ tu hot d 11Jekttt1,. 1.. t1utt

16
A I ~tuA to an._ r t.&.t -que1tiot1 on..tba grow. id
J7
t 1 111.c:1:~wt y,el f.
18'
Hll. '.IAIU.ltt lour Kouor, .J ubd.tt the 1titae.1. ha
. ~9
:.:.-
t11t:! ficl -- bM been. ~ll d by t1- pro otio n ""- t'bat la
20
_tl.Qt &o1~ t:o incr tai~ t hta lv .an7tldng.
~
21
Hlh 8UGLI0Sl t l objec t Q1t the ltOUJt6 it l ml vat~
22
you.r BoitoJf_,
.DE OOlJl!t Sutalta.e4..

-
24.
Jiil.. .la1tAIUt Well, thu, :,our- Houor> 1 l 8ll
25 :
.' ,ofti : of eroot"
25 . .
Ta com.ttr A1k your ii.qt qt~ on.
. .
~ ..
- CieloDriw.com
 ' : 1 21. 835. '. '

llt :8;i,. :L\lfil'EX:

1
Q What :l.1 lid of 1:ijuana1 Mr:. 02:owt

- 2

~
;

., lbtouM a,. -., l cal'l T atto:n-y -to che

st&Qd.t
4

5
TB$ COUff: fr,- ll.
'! -
(Wh,lreu_pon Hr. J:ara.1 Mo.ti.an, ttoxn.17 .f.o'I; tbl
6 ' ,.. I ,

1'itu. Ap,p1:oacta.1 th wita.1 fen.~ an off tbl: Q.(191:d.

ee>J1f-rnce:. fter whicb ti.a tol1owing. ,Pl:Oo.tdbtga 'WR had
in cwtt Qli thAt r.-,ord..)
010
...
10
m. Wrt.8$S.: lt bat .n tlC11'48t1- q_Q ac t. eatU1Qt
11
qul~- 't~ tb..t -.out1t. t :don t 't~r.
12
:SYM.l. ~ I . ; .
Q. tcu don t r-.....be:r 1'hat' liti t?
A 'light, it ba ben quit ~caeti:M atnc. l. )'a\l
15 -
\maw, tnctu1p4 ~-
16- .
. --

. 17. . (>,; clo you not?

II} ~ wr.am.ss: l(ojl'

19
. 00tnlT1 All .tight.
lYMt. UNAJUt
21 \l .Bolf Jla1'11 lldJ a-r thaJ: 1n a Jdlf
'
22 A l donJt. pQ'lf.
Q Bow, Mt. Crowe., . .rt .:YO\i lft tbc hou to ao
24 -ovi:- ~o. ptck up Steve-, @ you ,;-~r tbatt

25

-~..
.A
Q;
t

I CieloDriw.ooni ..
'
 2

4
What wu 70ur. ,tat o.t -.it\4
pe1:1on. that ;P'OU P<>b 1fitll
do?.
()tt the ~lephoo.a
u 'tQ what
va: $Oin&
the.
to

5
.
6 1$.. tAltADI.;. lt calla for his tat of mud,.. 10ur
'l Boa.or.
8- I
~ COlll'tt .SUJtaid.
JY )Ql. ~ l : t , ;
10 Q. lou 11.4 ha.I
,.
:4
' i
c~~~Uoa with '
a pet1on -011 thti .
te1'l'h9,. itght:t ~.. - .'
t ' I a J "! \ ' ~
12 A Ya. . .

- Ana ,ott w,:e -tol,4 thtc ihai: ,e~'n ~14

J'3 Q
.,. ~j ' l' ..... ; . .. 'I ~ }, ' ' l ~ i. 1-
14 ManiiP., ia that r:tabtf :i t f

15 A.. lot quit: lib that, . j ~ '"Cbff~{t .. ~t

16 .Q; Cha'r11e?
11 A )f.aht.
18 Q; .A\'.Ml you. ~d,. coJ;tV'i- -atiou with Cbatlie, 1
19 that: :right?

.~-
.20
A t . '
21 Q rm -i-raon that you thoqht wu Cbar1te..,:igh.t.t.
3a 1.-... 22 A , ~ . right:,

24

- 25
'
26' . '

CieloDriw.com
 21,837

wh~ Mr, .:Y.!llaon or Gharlie va, SQt~g to do~ wne.re Jle wa

-~ goins to 89 ~ner thecon~v i4n?

p&l't ot 1.ou~. tat-ntt
"'

.. the .ti~et
' t

4 A Will 1ou ~epet

. . . '
.
s MR. ItAN~Kt .S\\f'ctl1l I Wil.l rep,at :11; t;l:L.
. . .

~ ~ . Yo~ tiad. a convration ~1th. a. peron tha"tf JOU . '

7 thoue;4t was Oh.arl_ie-~ Q;r- ,olneone ll._d ~Old JOU wa Ch,arlie,
8 t'1ght1
, 9

10 ~ An4 bavi~g that ~- m1n4 ,. did you .have a o.onv:r~

n sation it~ tb pt~son th&~ vou thought wai Chi~li as to
1~ wn4t -n. waa go:1n;, to do, whr.i be wa1. ,going to_ a,o att;e:i- h

13 ' .

14

1s
hiig up
'
~he. t~l~phon.,

.
dtchVt- think an1t.hi~s else would happth
. , 16 l thought .pernap the. guy would come 9-ut, which .io
I ' '

18 . What. watf tbatt

,
. A. .t tbc>ught lrl&1b -~t waa a_ goocl_ poa1b.tl1t1; tli'4 he
. . . . .~;
would how up..
<


-,,,,
.
: ~ ~
'ii ;
,/
i. -; , .: '
t / '

21 . Q, ~bat 'lfll.O would ahow up? 1 1 I .L:

,., . ' ' .
we-11, now, is 1our atate --
i1 ,. 1
'When 10~ were on the t.lpho~ talk:inc, ,di~:fou
'
...
'

~b.1nl you 1Aere talking to .Mr. w:a:~.aon.,. th man; that bad. :ri.ir& . -
'Witlt . . . , - ' F.
ot,t/the $2,, 400T 1

CieloDrive.can
 , ,1'
..., ,;

. ' ' ..
' ~-'
,.,,
' ..
~
~
,
J,"
j
. i
.L Ne>,, l dS.c1 not lcnow ,rhO- l lf'&'I tallt 1ng 1.R. . All ;c
,2 . kno11r. -a .Oha rli _. anoth&.l- Cb_az-lif.
.e. 3'
~- ,, It - another Oh~ 11,i
4, A.. . l'
.s,'
Q. Ancl yolll" tat ot llli.n4 we.a .aucn th&t 1a" did not
6
thir t it waa tll pra on that - took tht ~. 1100, risn tt
. .
J. No, th th.ough'I; did not _go tb): 'O~ m,
7 ,und ,
8 ~ Patdol.'1:?
'
9 . A. .. ~h th~u ght did not go th:rough mi. mind a.t th
io ttu .
ll: '
_~ . Inrour llltnd tn:L,
<
a QJ.t tere nt ~ra qn with the
'

12, ,~e n~ Cba rli' I

l~ A. ft1.gllt .
,14. ~here ia nc queation ~bout. tba. tt
15, Righ ;b.
16 Q..No'.W llavitig, in lldnd J'Olll" Qonvera'lion with t.b1
,.
17 pe1.9aon tha t ,1ou- aaJ vaa -anotnr- Ohf.x-lie,. wu you~ atf.1
. . .
i of
: i~ mind auch that thi'a o~lltt Oba ~li aa. soillc to. lav
th
19 area whtre be wa and c~Dlt. into Hollywoo<tt
20 '
.. -A.. , No-1 l bad no ind icat ion tha t 1om.eon WU <iom
ini ..
'~
.
21;
;

,~ '
A. . ' l{r,.

23 -. . Now~ th&l 'f. ia. JiQ ques.tJ,.,on .in JQU~ Ii11ncl tl\& t
.

yo\1 wen~ o:ver ther e .to ge.t Ste. v, righ t,. and you,
.,i,

24 ..
~ir ,.'. with Stev e? .
'
came t>a:ok '

2q .''. A . l

Cielt-ortw.cc.-.11
 - . . ..,

,.,.
2 '

>,

,A
2 . NO- q~et:S.-on about tt.
. .
. 3 Do, 7Qu 1-emembr having _.a cc,nve:rsation w1th. th~a
' ,, 4 gentlman-. ~. :Suglio,-i, on Janua.rr th 271.h, t;J..lie,:e two
5 day~ ago?

7
' " . .
nw~o was in ,;-ue ap-aittm.t.nt it" &JlJ9n when 7ou.
,? ; -rturnedt
10
. t1,a. -M.anaoh.. 1n the a;pal'tmtnt tt_h a

. alao thei-. n
. ,. J3
Do 7-ou l9ea.ember. tell1ng that t.o Mr., Bugl1oa1t
u- -4 . Y
15
' .
MR .. ltANABEKt ~ l-1ay l appJ"Qa.ch tij witn fQ\lit ijono:r ..,..,.
,, f .. ' i;

~6 '
I

. ' 'l . I'tn;: re~-~be:tt ~hat; l d-ont ~ave to -how it t_o 1ou~
. 11

. .18

1?_ .
~e-1;l,lttzled., .r~~gb.t,
~- A: .No, J; -dl<l riot a:1- tha~.. I 1&1d I went to gt
,,
''!
.ti .. bim. .. .
~ .'
~2 ..

23 d1.d JQ\1 ~-tlU'n aft.er- ha:d.,;ig le~tf

' .. 24.

25 any:wh~l!'e
.
~. IJ:ke I st14 1eteraa1, I t.bink
,, t
.
.

'fr

between ilOO., 1:30 or- 2:QO o,.olock, aomwhe~e in

tt uon<l
' t
.

'

~6 . I . ; ' .
7- ,

; ' . ,, ,,
' ....
 , -~ 21 8.119
', ' : i . . . . ''l ..
'. f

t1111e: 41d ;yo~ return? Zou lh abQ"u.t ~-13P-. or , :

-;
- Q , Wb&t
...'.
,;
',' '

~
..
2

3
2i.OQ '0 1 C19Ck, t-ightt
'

A, All I can
Wben d:f.4, YQU rturn,. Mr. Crowe?
-1 it wa "H_itllin .f.. period
. '

0 trom.
4. 11 ::oo P' 9look that n1,$ht until about 2 r 30 or 3: oo tha,t.
5 mo~in$ that.all th:ts bapp,ned, ~o I cannov aotully kefp
6 pnp<>1nt1ng the '.exact ti:-., thO\lgh I- xna.d ce~atn ta.tnients
.' 1 . 1'.tei;4ay.

: s I cann~t a7 I o~ back l~: 30 1>'- l i 30 OJ" 2 :.00

,9 0-'cloQk;. or I lttt that time. It 'Was-- btore 3.tOO a..m,., t)la
>

I .
10 '. bal$ntU1.t. ol the .even~g I what hapJ>oned on t'h li;' or August,.
u 1969.
I~ ~ Pid rou tell Hr- S~g11oa1 in anawer to.~ qu,tion
13 l>J h:S,UU
;J.4,
.
,,
~s,. .,..,
tfll. ,.,.V'...
,J.6
. '
;ri. "A- 3,.00 o~ ~ 10_0 a .. ni. u .
1s
'
.Pid 7ou, aiYt tho an,rwe~
' '
to th qv.e1tions tha.t
19._ l.-.Ju.st uttrea~ to Mr-., Bg;t1oi,iJ. on J-anuary 27,. l'9.7lf
.A.
.
~
.

. .

mt. K-AN~K: . Mfl.1 I approa.oh __the witn.,, .iour: lionor?

..
'. ,23. '. ~ COURT~ N'.o, J\\.St read the qu~atton.
. .
24 : . MR-. -KANAREK; ,Vt-1 well~

25

. T~ ctoua~: .. Do 70.u want_ tll qeat1on read o~ are 1ou

 '
.. .
. . - .'
.

, .
-. ' .
,l '

.
tt.~. ~ .
"II'

.. \ .. / 1 ' ' s ..

. : "" ~ . on read.
i ' 'M~~ K'ANABEK.:. _Very we.lJ. 1 I wili ha.v the q~at1
' .. ,, " . ' . . i 1t . ' -~ \ ' ' .
~

j


.f ~:
:-
1, ....
..

.,
!
3
< '

-
.
(Wht~eon,. tht repo).'tei.w Wllcls the Pt~d~&;. t : _., : ._ :-:
v.,. ,

. . ,, . . , ,
. '
4 q~t:1,;,n. l
thi.. .
M WIMS Si ~ '-1<1
-~ ' t
. ,.
3> e_
5' ' trom tba.t t1111e J: ~u
.
1h.
'
i . :

6 b.o.ap. ital, I ftl$3.axnbtr- . tbat . tlm war, JJ i o.o- o I oloot. on tb wa,-

,
'

to t:tlf: :boa-p:Lta;:t, .abolJ.t. 4:oo' o"cloc k, eith r that l n th

1':,
'.I.

& time ~: t~ houa.e.,. o~ in tll ho1pi .tai. one or t-ht c>tbr- ..

9 Act;ua.111 .I wa not: unoonsc1ou11. ao I can :sa7
IO
Pl"hap to ~.he hoP11:.al at 4 t(JO 01.oloQt. 10DJ.eth1ne; like i;hat:,
u 4 . 14?'. crow, I. @ no.w peakin(' Qt w,bn 1.01.1 1-etum ed
I
I '

12
to the. '1-.Prtnt tt:11 having l.ett the partmenv,~ th1 i
b tor the time th:a.t YOU tell. U _that you wer1 JhOt. .
f.
13

- 14 .

' 15 ~ike
A.
that t-
: -Okay- I, ,I

perhap s- .
.can aa::, !t .al)Q~ 2-: .OO' or 2: 30 i aozp;ethiing

l6 . ~ . You 1 it .2:00 or .2:~0t

~'l .& Je&, ax-ound t.hR.
'
. - 18 , mt. -KANAREKi !'otb!t' ltonor-, ~.. S~lio a.1 and. I ha.v a..
19 atipul ation. : that in r,pon to the queati ott.i
,
''20" , l'et.t.Wnt
Did f,OU;

,21

Abou.1: wna.1; ~iMl'

3 ,00,. or 4: Oo ,," tbat. tb.a.t, ia wnat

..
.23

., ''. 25
.
, .,

\
26 , Janua ry 27th., 19.71.,
 21.842

1 iffi. SUGLIOSI.r .Sq, &tipula.ted_.

4
Q BI MR. XJlNRiKt ;Doe tha:t;._re.treah your
r.eoo.i1ct1onJ .1-ii' . .Crowe,. ~hat iou 1tturned &l>ou.t 3 roo
4-i OO a.~. t
01-

!-
~ -5 ,1.. . No.t. no.
6, ~- Well.,_ when you told Mr. 1lugl1oa1 _,.
~~
t',
. . . .
q. A, I m.e:nt-1on4 tl:lt tiu elDl.ent.
, I
M&1b- ~~
I J '
wa, a ,f
~

tn ,qU.,tiQn tba.t,lf
.. ,II ' '

8, matake I what I waa -say1l'ts: to akd,

9 OX"
. vo
aomet~n; . ibat .'etto~.
...
. r io .. Q You think ~be, thre ~ a :lllatakef
'
..
'
,. ,

'
;,
.j
11 A.
~-, 1 i '.. .
I~ 12

..
'. l
' '
1
;;

1~
"' I :,
.: _.
ril.4

15

,'-ili ..

').t ,.

-1$

19
~ ..
!:

20
"~ 2i
22,
'
-~3

.:.
24'

~$

26
 l Q Wll,. YoU ~ht wu -not put down on .tbia
2 . paper ~:.tab,tt.
3 A. I 1-gi ne it but t aa j~t: xplA W,na to
4 you that t prQbably 4idaiert~1ou.dte the.
s ltow,. OU. oft~ two PQple* it ....
-.,be.
6 ~lloa :f., aade- a Jlf.tate 11 t ~4, o~ t 41,4 ti.Qt
'heat t'b.. .
7 q_u.1tton right , 01: -.ia. .-r ..
8 Q )(ow, thtn,. Jfr:. Ct'ow, will you tll .11.f whtd t
"UY it! -zbat. coupla Qf -d.aya aao that 7011. 'told
:10

ii
*u Bug1:loai. lt tht. . Ir four lc,w,. you 1n tell
1.~ i. a diff'enn.t.- tu.e. ... _; .
,t ,1 \.

- I t ~ ~l I

12 A x .J~~~1' , lt, _frCtJ th-. t:t.a tlutt: x got b~ck

:frota E:1 ironte... .

. { . .. ::

l -: ,,
, . . .. . .
14 Lib l' aaidt it1ta"Allout'llt30~,U :00'12t'30 .,._
.
. '
J.5
bQUt 12;: 30,: ay'btf. 1100 WUll ..J'!t back ~O tba -~~~,
' 1 ' ' . .- I
16- :. fr -ll- Mont. ' ~ '
I 17 So. X tbaire ra..-1,.-. h.all:hoe: :: : , -~,
18 Jfkt - ucl 41ou11lonf .and then . . . . .
J9 tM p~ call and. l tlk.14 to CbJi-11- f9r,_ Ub X .,.u,.
~o bout thr idn~ oti- 1 ot o t left.
21 Xt 1ra1 bout 1:00 ~ 1 le.f't -perhap ..
' .
t got over tlutr , 1l 30 ~ .i:-oo t got bck .
2:t pai:1\Jp,1,. _t01.\11fhere: toun.4 in that area.. I do-n.1t i\"..,. ._J:
~4- nyln g 4-;00 oc1 ou. Pl:obably t. wu h tlMl hop ltai

26
lMJcQsJ. I .,,._. :tQhl ng t~ a-.i;h iJag, 'I wa1 in uch pat
pail;t.
.lbJ-2 1 Q
2
1'MO. you spo'Q. to Kr~ luglio,tt
3
. ',';,-
A Oh., n.01 uo, dd:b:d.tal)' not
4
Q, Wn :,.ou \IUCIJ: the inflwanca of a n ~ 1rlwu.
&
10\t eolce to Mr. l\181:loat:1
6

.7
~ l(o, I w no-t
MR. lllWtit: It, i t1pu.1tdt your HoU.e>l(r .that Qn
,&
J~,:y ti.: :a1th, 191l;c :tu oonvttatioJi bttwtn Mt .
9
Ot'O'tfe a.net Mr.
Juglto1i. the fo;l.lowina - ltatect thil "!..

,fl
i at lbte l thr>b&h 6 of _.t
i the third P4 in thil
t~~tcr:lpta
12
trq Wb<t ia .ti. -'~p~nl:.
' ' '
if mi)'ont, .
~
,.
I > _; ,,

. '
..

11.A : .~0'1 in tmi apart...e~t 'With a guy

15

16,
llaUd. 'r .J.,
<,
loi.'u a.SL Btv aitd .Dai. -~ .1.~
' ; .:
1'

t~~- ,.
. - '
17
Wbci is st.~v~'?t / '.
,"
1

'
:'.,.
...
, ,
. ,' .

18
"A A ~in.d ,;,f ntit1e .tt __
19 : ~ ' , /,

'Ml~ IWLIOSt~. So tipu.1at4 .. '

20 . .
$.. XAJWlll: So atipQlat<l tbAt that l hf.t '*'-
q,:" t~i1d. Mr. )UgltQ1 on ;January the 27tl1, 11n1-.
low,. 1'.1 ~t:ton,, kr, C2!01NI, i i thu:
Q. ~ you c~ back ht~ you c.- back to
'24
-th ap~tJllli.nt :rou. ~ bl05 with Stv, ,-r1on that 1QU.
25 '
.. had gQn o1lt. to at pcl t() .cCJlllt bok to. the a;u-.nt 11itb~
2.6
- if that 1r'.b,at: you an tllina f
CieloDrive.can
 ..

lfbt reu on ,ro uli I, la v t
J)Ott you lef t
3 .
Q .Yau ~ tt:111l'fl u tha t i t1* pu#
for .
'r, t() go Je t b.1-.
6 : Bo ,.Q, QOUld C'*f, back.lflth '"vt, lfipt1
1: A te , ur, ~ ~

8 .
a
Q '
So he ,rou14, be i~~ 1P~ whh()ta Mt aw Mx-~ ~on
'

~
...
:,011

-the te1 e.P

'

~ Cll.ai:lie or 'lrhoe-Vtr 1ra. ot;\

I
j
'

9
- i-,1 . , . ;
' .. ; , . ,, ' . ' .
. .
:. lo ,o!Mi
10 A l dt44 t ia.,._ @1'-i4*a? to ... . an)'oM .. ' - "" t

ovet". l. didl:t t ~ ey itt41oatt

'
'
ou
11 . . .14 tb 1 c *ln g
tct.}~ti.aa~bb&.:o~
[~. of the tQD4l Qf the vo ia tb t tht~ ~u I <o 'I ~ '.,
'

tJt. t~ t
'

1'3
any ViQlau.,. ot." - t phy,iol t~vity 011 ,an~htna

3,5- ; So it di .al t ~ 1;&. fac-tf I M- t hil

l, whateva;:.
nytbtug_., l ~d no t '.tld.n'k bou.t it: ,
('
, 4 f1.. 16
'
:tt unit:
18 I ,

'. J.9 ,' .

. .
' ,2Q

22

23 ' .

24, ,

26 '

-- --
CieloDrne.con,
~,
 . -~ .._II,..

.:
1 Q
'
)'Ott bav.. any .e~nvtt1tlon1
3 ll. ?. 1veryo did.
4 q J:va:ry~ tt.d. converttota?
A tt1ab,ti,
q 11.gbtf
,7
A Y~ tight.
8
Q What 1-.i, .b7 each of you vben you c.., bac'k.i
)fr,. Cr.~f
19
A
11

12,
hap~n.ecl ct b.aw 41,appob.td h t1.d u.pt about it:.
t c-=ot 1-call the- c:on.vrtt~u that,ru

14
. '

takei;l 'lior'd for word..

. . in
. tba Par~11.t aftexi back. c
.1 ~ all, it: ye:u -and half a,o, poseibly
15
two.
1~

17
q Row 11ntdt do yo'-' ish ,I I
*. Cton'l

'
,,

. llUGLlOSI.: ~
.
t ! tttlvant. '
'

18
~ I . : ~t: la t~ do~. -w:tth. ., ...... upt,Q1edly thete
\ ' .
~ \. ( '

' '

. .
l! -Wal' - ~ lU%4ati.O.l1~ y'OU HQD.O+ ., r
20
nt& CQllli: Qff~1td.. 'tou
,
'UY'' .atl.#Wtr.
; I . ,
., . , .,
21 .
TD WI'tlESSt lTJi pd d-~: h~ .273 to 29-3, poai:bly-
-22
300. ' '
:23
:It )fl. UlfAUl.l
24.

q .to4 how tall u :,out

A live -eleven and half~
Aad a Jtllt"Ch 414 701,1 weigh at the
26
Q t:lma tti.t: 1~

CieloDrive.can
 ...-;;:-- - " ~-- , - , ~

21,.847

l ~-- tt, tb1. al)attaffit ()11 tblf evpi~!

A
~06,, S~th:lng .1iktt that.
. wetpt..,
Ab()QC 290 WOMt.zJtitli.1 4loa to 300.
l w.aa x-lly big. I baY lot
Ma~btJ

t-
Q row, ~-. when 101w bad that- O'l'.t.~1
6 con.vx-ttc:,a.. with whoal ~,' had it lfith t ti. rach, t-
'

i.._: ap"taaent,
'
t
'
'tW
' 1 ,: ,
.
-~' .JQll' YIUJ.Ud your
. .
aioy: ' bck
'

8 xig'ht ct'. tf\e: wedt.

r
9 ' jl6 ...,
~
t
. . ' ' .
10 '(\

ll A 'Su.re. . . ' '

' ; .
'' '.
' ''

.
.,~-- . 12

14.
~
~ . hd. fair YQU. ,..-n: Co'Qeea-d, 19\t wtr
. . .. ' ;'
apiq-to. go out htr.ever thta 1*'11 tbat ~tt thOUplt
.wa Obuli ~ 4o thill&
, abQUt it h c,~der to tt 1our-
.... . ~" ,. '

JllQU1 OJ.f th 11Hdt ~ightf

16.. , A Wt"ong.
. ~ . .'
17 Q You.wenn't aoina to4o Jthltls ~ !tl
18 A. l{f;).

A tor JtD--
21
Q .-I.'
~ u ti.r . - rQol'l ... t.'ldil-lfith...,
~- , that.
~4 Wu your tt ot J1ltld ltlcb ~ you. -Ml~nd
:. ~i; . . t::11,.t Mr. Wat:,op. loPtcl at .tl\tl plac.. x thi. -.ron
-26 nd ""<a! th.ta- lttbar mt.rlt. tlut,t. you: 1pob tof
 -.,..

l ' A At ~e pal!t1cu1at t!-.1

-- ' ' :a '

3'. ;

4 ,
'

Ult ~lul plaeta

.Q;' At an.)' -tiM.
l>id yo~, in you,: dn:d, a1100Jt. Hr. W.atao.u.
t~t lo.ti btld 1~p~od1 7 el14 that
. . , ~

.-! ~ s
,(j,

7 ptop1 ~blr., or at tb.tt- nid.JJic t;hat 1M bad clldt

8, .
Q . Did )tou. t:hia that. Mt. Wa~on 11-.,~ t. ti.
9 .

'
"
10
,.-ou spoke. to ti.t ,-r10A -Jou th.ouaht wu ~<l ~l-t,
il
th1.aothe r -~111

ti.~, o.r. w'M~-vr, nd i.

.,
t.

)'3 '
~t .there at tha.~ Vd

!hat_ be 1t' t: tbQ .at the ti'III., you. b01t,. tti.~ ti. cat1
nt tbroup. .
16
. ~- .I lff.,
11
pur,o in aoil,a ... yo~ dtdn't
Au4 1ou u.d. \ltQ
18 .
tbt:N.tn, to 10 0J1t tta;a _. tu the one1 or ti. 47-
19
A. At." t1.lle;:- n.o.-.
20
q l ... w
21 .
..-~ 19~ ha4 -..r .,,~ ~o,tu kfqi:e ill youx-
2.2 ,,
. : life' =pt.. tbt venine; ,rightt .
A That t 410,,:rect..
. '
Aa fu o 1 kn.Otf.
24 '
W.11,. DOW,..1ta1. yo~ tt~ of iatud uoh that ,YQtt
Q

T r 'f

PJr~-..4 9f lfbat loiiu.i WU 1ili1 1'1*.l -WM Pid that lf

~ ... ... .

Tx dldn*;t -~ ..~ one7 o~.-ceo1u;; wt~h t:'1-....4, tqt

"26

~ i ..
~ ~
'
< < ... ~1~ C ~ .t,.,a- ~. ~ .. ' f < "Ir

: , i
cieioernie.com - ;
 I you;, )Jr. txcrw.- 1 ve-r Join& to tU Spahn lad.ch ad txoy

.,,
.
2,

3
vaeyout
Wen you in favor of that ianauasT
A. Ut:a4.ar -no o.1-x:cuutai'lca ~

. 6

1 ,

lO

11

1"3

14

15 .' .. ,
',
} .. \ '-,: ~; ,,I- - ' '111
:- .

'
'
'
I
I
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, 19
('
I
I
1 .

22

23

~4

. '. 25- .

. 2g.
 4a-1 l I
2 :
. '
3 on the othe~. n.d ;he,t wb..at Rosina. had ~~t . b
aa14 J-U1$'
' .. 4 wan~t so, you wtl'nt.. lllA4 at, ~)'ho~.
, . ~- :,t
5 ls tba.t Whf.t JOU aUdt
i ,., -,.
1 t
{ .'
..
I " .~ i'....

. 6, I didni't ay tbtt .. j ~

.
I
J<._ ......
. . . ,,
. ~ .tou. ci'idn tt f
~

,' i .;; .
7 : '

; ... l . l . ~:
~ '' ,. ',l
s No...
~ " ~,~ rt' 'j. . .

' . - ,I, 9 .
' i '_.'. : 'r
,
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.
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w....
.,
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t.'
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12.

__ :
,, 13' that h o~ld do that.
.:14' . r. .iardont -
. 15 .A.: It <1ce1n.ft ,ound lit<: fe~ wo\:lld do .ao1;11,thir,t$ -Uke

16 tllP.t, . ~hat ia TY brQther. I dont bliev, qe woula. 4o.

' '
17 tht. I .(l9n t believ&. .it. l ~an'' t l.Qldrtand it.
i~ .spmethi~_g to that ttect 0~ th b1~ ot tha.t J

'!!
J9 t a1d.: w.,1i, all I 'IIJnt 1- the, vrid -01- the
20 11toney. An~ I. gave .her the ph,on ~ack. t had. notll~.s ttlae
.
:'!
21 to a;4y ~ .
.
22 ;t_gave hl" the phontt b~akl and that w it;.
:ZS t ...... ,
24
" .
.

When r,ou :ea.iq into the plaQe, ~o tbe .apartmnt

25

26.
after C.mni!IS be.ck, and. ha.vine; thl_ c-onVtl"at1oni
J'Oij J.la:d been ih tbtr~ a9ntij_ :ti,in-, :,ov; .a1:t dow~, you ,a;:;?
aftt~

. . "'.
 . "2-i ,851
.
.
'

.2

:3. ' ap1t,rtmentt

A Suret. Whan I i'irat _sot ther, I wall(e4 to a

7 weed?
8

9 4 .I llllan; att~ ;you eaJU.lf bao~.. lou had aom

l!l' , a1c.l;lai1on .~oncer.ni~g th& d'
11 -A. . The tirst timT ~ when 1cue back with st,v1
12. Which ~m.?
. 13 Whn y,011 1ay now that- 1ou C4\lllt baok- with stav~,
14 Ioli ar,. aak~ng me the q~ea;t;1Qn -~gain. You ~e
_aay,~g now. nave to explall.n.
You will
16. Ask tb1queat1 on you want me to an.1wer.
?o~ o~ b$ok :with Steve; r"ightf
18 Bight.
19 ~ . .~d 7ou had aome oonvtitaa.ti:on :when 1ou oe .back
20 4onoern1~g dJ is t;ha,i rightt
21 A. - Ull-hun .
WOul4 foutel1 Ua WAat you sa.$.dT
.23 A. I o~'t. I am telli~g rou. I o.an 1 t. quite ~em.ember.
When I oew b.aok -with Stev,. Qhar11 inti,:oduced
h1Qelt to M. 11 or Qllleone 1nt:rtduoe d him to -,
26 .R u ,itt~g- OA th 1dt :ot the o,d.., and he

. get up- and ll abook my hand.

 ' <' i.

1
I .

.2

s:
4
ll
down, .-net &Ot to
.
e..-J)11nt,d -,,....... :ii,11.i~i-
talking.. ...., i -. .
r
And. -be kept. -~pl;a:t~na to. ...'. ,bat he i
an -Stave ......
~
d.on t t
. ~
~

5 undera$and
.
i~-4Qtns. solllihing like
.
t~a.
.
,1,. dc)t.an~t
. .
,
. -. l

6 aound.. l.ik ld,ll1 and o on. C.d c> forth.

1 And Jx got u.p. ltl4 h* tu.d.: or oouraJI i o&M --
8 do 7ou. wan~ to $,0' onf
9 (l Yes.,.
.

lQ I- .'lh~ he- got up and pulled th. cun..

ll He pull<! t t. t;~n or toui-- t.1 -ore- o., Abov.t-
12 tov.r- tiJilP..,
13 An4 h 1&1d.1 ~ X' not-l-oaded, but tbia one
.14

I\j Now., in 15h coiw ot p\ll11ng. ot tlt tl'iQ,2f~

16,
thi.- - oonyeraation at the ;.,_ t:111 . T.h converaatl.011 ..
17
colling tra ..
,:'
.tts l 14: Why 414 70:u. pull - sun on t X didll 't
-!'
19
.. pull one o~ ,o~.
~o Jm4. 4l'O tb&;t 1-" at~:,; th to\Q1b anot;. I
21,
,. 1tan.4 toward io. get up~ ~cl at thaii -ti ~ l leped
', -~- tol"W.,..4i b abo, .. , and l. tll ok, tnd. I l4ok<J at
28 bim..
24' :

25 ; fell~
-~..
 .- 21,l:153
decided to pla1 po1sola.
Jt J: 't : ..
1 ,l '"l

-
:t pla7ed poaa.011 anil 1-.114: t;h.r ~
.2 ~
, ..

~ '
1

I ; ~ '

At' tha.t ti:, he; tilJ;tned t9 Btv and he 1;1,a.idi _.

tfG:l, v U ):O\U" Bhirt tf

\ < ,1

,,
I

..... .. .... ,.
' I
~
O '

4 . " ' )

.5
And
.
Stv aid, 11SW-",
.
~roth~r." _
: .. . . ~ . ., ' . .... :

6
. 1 imagine he aave it t() ~111~ :b.cavi he 41.4n:lt _.
- ~ ha,re on when l. go.t up ...... whtn J; .op.enep. -~. . eyea_,.-.tt,llr-. . .
1 . - . ' . 1

,8
And. he aa1~, u:,ear i;bt-oughawa.ffne 1a where it
1a at, or- awartnaa throgh tear ia when -.it ia- at. tt
-Something on that or-dtr,, or vie vel'sa.

li
Tbn 'I he-ar.d Mm ention., 11 wei &J' even .. "
Latr on, ::t toun.d out that be k1-d Del' t.oot-
and he aaid,. tiz,ow we al' evtn. :,

.:.'i
1,4. .
~hen & atattii1,nt waa mad, bJ ...... Manon stating)
1'Xt 7ou people
'
know wh&t ia_ ~cod to.r you.,_ JQU.
.
lfQn'-t aa1
. '
;1.6
anyt-hint-~ u Som.ethi~ ,on that o;rde_l*'. An in,dioat,i,on., o~

17
wbteve~. l dont know.
4b . -IE!:

19

2t
22

-23

24'

.. 25
 . Q. 'fou kuw when you came. J:,ack, you ~ tlling ua .
tba1: ~o:lua,.. ovr the te1fih.ona, .aaid. t&at :you - ~ .&oing t
-e. $leatroy r,thing and all tht. i,aop1e at tba Spaluiitandl.
4 -You. 1uws1f that thole wo1!'.i. M:d hen ttd or that
'5 tUpiw,n. .
6 . A QA;: yel' o.,:taiul.y ~
...,_.':"

7 Q ltabtt
s A t
9 'Q . So;, -when 7QU c:.a bck ad y.cu ....., that ,-r.on
!o. )'o\l 1 1, * ~on ...,.. t~re, you. ltnew that thol& wotcll
n had 1*n U.tbl"4t ~1,ght? ~
... ' t

.-ure... JM..., . .
'I;

12 A. Oh,
13
Q ,' ~-
'
. . .'1
111-~.,,..
't..'y' " \ .

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. .
14 .. : . V-1, t.:hei:1 'an'f. i~l6n .~o~t>;d91J.tg 'MoMth10I
I.' 4 ,! ~ "' '

15 to t:b Spahn ltanch?

. " " .1 ..
.,, ' "
Y~ t1-rit ~..,. : .
"

. .1,6 " 4 ' ~-

F .. Q tau u lfhat it .,..,

l8 A
.19 to -tiu!. gutleman on :the othe,: end of :tt. 1:1:ne.
~o . .Q ~. 1ou. c - back ~ that. llouM?
2i . A Sur.
22 Q lilowing that tba atAte. -Qt liiu.4 of ~1-. })e:t"eon
23 . on. the -ot1-i: :a.d of t'bat t:.-1-.phoM. ,. tbat you, larnard.
;M 0x'QtiM; Waa &0U1$ to t!!'OJ that t;noh, d till e;y'eryboq .
:. 25" . ~t; i:ight1
' .
26 . Ml~ Jl;IGLIOSX: 0.11 fo~ I .conclU1.i911.
 . '
. -
r.
'
'
' . ~ . . {
...
k
... MR+ ~ K i 11: ia.. hi ,tat of Jrdnd t ~ I
1
~

.,.
... /1 ' ; '? . ,
2 '. I ,t ti ' . ii r ',t '
1 f ' . . ', I ,.

4, .

6
Jt ~

IUCLlOSXt l:ta baa l\o way -of 'k.Dow!ng'" .

..""'"~' '
Tllt oomtt:: su,taiud..
7 '

8
A ...
.
)to., r didn t
.9
. Q. Do you:., &ca t i . to. t:i.:. o.,ny .a _gun?
i0-
Mil. '1UCLI0Sl: that. l j:rreleva.\\t1 your RQnor
11
. -%1$ -COUR!.t Su1tat0Md.
~2.
}Q.\ QaAIEl1
.
-Q, . -D:ld.
.
~ne,. - Ci:Qlfe,
. ~
after
13,'
f:he tf-. tut JO~ 1ta~ ~t. - lt - 1fithdJ:aw tl\at':.
14
Afe,er ,10U: re hot., you n taken to a doctor
15
l~ .
iJ th.at ~qb.t,
A A hdpi-t1; yea.
Q A ho1ptt11
-1$, '
A . Y'I\
...
- 19
' .
. ~- Who ~ooJt. 7ou tn the hospital?
A 1'be- police~ rc.e.~quad. -.bulance. 14.'Debody.
2i . '

Q . How long vaa it .aftet :,011 n hot th:at t1-

IZ2 ..
poli,.. o~ .ti.a 1:lcJlt. quad JQt thert
2.3 :
.
A. 1 don t knPW. Prbap 4S .inutta to an_ hour
24
:O~ ,o. ;BOlllltb.il'lg ttke. that:~ t -don tt, kn:QW.,
25
Q !tow --
~6 .
A I 11a1. 111 pan
:'.
e 1o13r-
 ' ~--,-... -

I : _. t~ bt oil that ,.
2 Q. ){ow_. au o,- e . 41d Stt.Y bav a .,_,
3 A . lfo._
4 -Q ' . 1lQW 4o JOV. kt\O\ft
5 J\.. . t know Steff., a. .U~ t b..avtt -~ a-, Ha

dldnt t to jo. bMlr. -,.a 7,

7 . .-Q. J-.,:&:;n:t
8' A :&a &datt;.. YG t'. to- IO back.. . .
.
9 . ta14: loi-at 11;. Ba gaw ~ t ...t.ad1:1.a,
10 10\l ~ , -, frie nd, tO; fora t. .t,Qi,.t it.If J.ou. bow
'
. it

n Q ,But you ,,_t ct to. .go baok, JOU, t.,ll iq, u

12

i4c fla,,:a,
'
....
15

18 .

19, ,
.- ;~ I

.20
.
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2t

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l
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. .
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24 :
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'25

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f C
.Ctet6Drfve.c6m
 21,851

1 C.. D.14 .Del have -a. gun?

A l dontt th1~ 1q.

-
2

'li: Be. may have though; l'ight!

4 A He coUld .ha.Ye, perbapJ.
.
~ Well, int~
type or work tnat Di does ih th~
6 n~cotioa'bu1 1nea~ h oani a,s1.m 1th him, doesn't hef
t Del ........
MR. BUGLIOSI: Wht a~WJ a raot not in t.vi:dnc.
9 'I1lm ootmT: .suattned ..
10 ~y . J.fR~ KANARE'K:
I\
12. eoncerhini a_gunt
13 ~ I beg JO\lr pardonf
Q. DireotinJ JQUJf f;li;~nt-1Qli to Del.
15 ,A. X
16, Q -0.n that. n~sbt at any t~ that ni.ght, di-d you
.l'(. hav a. dicuajiOn w1th'Dl oonc,rning 4 S\Ul.1
. . , ......
;. .
'
~
.,

t _... . .,. .

" And at any time

~ '
thav- night -did 7.ou have 4ia-
'I ' k f j-~ f '
' ~ ~

. 20 cuaa:ton with Jim conoep.n1n_g : t1.1.f \ , , . . ,

21 A I don't think it '1 4iaou,aion., TtO ,.
Wha.t waa ,1i;;f
l, -~
..
'. In t,ot. it waan't a cU1ouf~n.
' le

.It: takes two to-d1acusa. It wain 't d1_c'tlae1on

25

-26' .
X 41dn 1 t ~ave any disoueion.
I.ou ha.d no .cU.acuaaiortt
 l,
lio.

- 2,

.s

4 ona...
-A.
4 But you kn6lt h o~r1e d a_gunt
He oar~ied cnet. Uo. l didn 1t kn9w noar ~ied

c.a.;-ried qne.
'
6 :4 No, :t ttont k.now uh
.......
Q, ?ou thoug ht h~
.....
~~f:t.~~
~ ...
~n~.; 'righ: tt
l.le C&n7 oneJ . 'Rb1 _ ~ .
8,

9
.A. 'Wh7 .shoul d I tht,bt:
:not. g&ns~i-a, .tbJ ffl hienda ct-
JQu know.
n,
WO~(\

:fr,1~nda) aa~o~:ta.te, J.
10 ' ;
7

, ' '
'
,
~n Mr.'Wat1.Qn betoret .,o~ wer.e g~ing to . so-.on tnat
\
. .

you h.ad neYer a1.ten be tor , in cqnn,o t.ton with this pttrcb a1

la

14 Did tou e
to it ;bat o~e ot the pr,on a with 10~ car.-r1ed
15 a g-un1:
i '

16 I beg yo~ parf;lont Aek llle 'that sain .

17 Sr,.
18 On tnia nigh~ when you wr g9in.& to a Pron
who turned QU.t tc> be Mr, Wataon.., who 7ou had n,vtr 11
~o l)~tore ,. d1ci Jou .arrang e tor ,o-on e, eithe r JQut, elt or-
21 -ollleone w.ttll you t to: oa:rt;, a gun:?
22 ' 110,
23 -: Dttr1ng the 4~ .nin~t that you 1'&:t tbat 1ou w.e:re
24 :. thtre btorct the police. ou - 45_ mir1.ut1 ; :r.ightT
' .

I don t really know. Xt. oouid. h~v on lo or.

- .2$ : .

2'6.. 15, i,t,

A-
cow.d llt.v bten 1*,-, :S.t could have been a.n houtt.
 When to.U: ue in pa~n). y.o.u art tr11n;: to t, p.ain J. and
l
that :t a11_ 70\l ia:,.ow.
2
:t:t e~ like a l:l;feta.,, 1ou know. whtn y,0u. u.
3
hurting,4

5
Ct - How ~ . gun did ycu. Mr.. Manon with f
4 one

.1
Ya.,

. 9-
so~ whn Mr. Manion :lttt,, he left with i;he ,S\4t; 1,
t1ta:1; l't~t.t
,lP ,.
11
. A. X iJP,agin.. l <ion' t know.. Mr t- 1re lo,ed
artd I wa, PlYi~g de&4. I iu h 41d.
~ Alter Mr., Map,1-Qn; lett ,. d~d c,cne t~ . jun ott

13
~t Ye:>~ .Pron?

4d 16

, i7
18 -

20
21.

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2~ .,
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24 i ~.:, . . ; t'

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,
- .
25
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.

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i

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' ielQ[)rive.com .
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 44-t 1 Q '." ltb:u Mr,. .kans01l i.rt. diet JOU ... au.1 .IUll in

- 2

4 ''
th,t: -~e.a.t
..A
Q
tb.f,.t jd,gbt
l 'Hg :,OU pa,:donf
%hat 11 not ci.uf
before the. po1ioe c. .,

5, ' A Mk i.t.qam .
~ i

.Q. S\#e.
.
, .
"
. . .
t '
' 7 .. ~t.n~btt, dte1: Mt,., l!an.aon ~ft.,. -did 10 ,ee
8

: .I~ !11.. tbt P~D.t bffor t'f;d!

+ ""

t
i,
~
t
'

polf. .o~,
p

x~Q1ilit
9
quad, ot:" the -~-=., o~ ~che11ar 111 f I
1011
~
Wfltt ti:<>- tua

10. lt'.:. 'befor tho _,-op\f., : _ , ,. : ', I . , ' r .;

A Yet, 1 d:1.4.. i-w.,,

..
1~ ' . .-Q. You d.ld,

. Y
14
1

A . 'tea:.
16 .
Q .Ariel who hacl' tbat. gutL on. thtir p:raon., ltf.. CJ:ow
17' .: )Dt, Jl>lll;Alh JSefc.:i- ha .n._x.., may X oo:ofet' wt.th
1~ .
.. ldit, ,01' Hon<>rt
19 :. MR. lAHmEf fo~ Hono:t, t hava :no objotton .. 14
.'be. t~ fb-Jt t!o 4'1 t:lmt -u: att.o=tty 1b.olllcl eOQfer v.!tb.
.~.
ht 1;1ient. but
. 1'81. com, 71hen don t .eaa1t. i i :,au bav. o.'bJct1ot1:

24" ',
You 1,
Hr~ Moraan.
kl. Q)JAUXr lt :l bttrfrtq ,rlth t- oonttnuity

.26
 ..
-44-% . i'
.
.2

. -a.
4
.
!lll. COUI.T:
' .
.

.
.
'M8.. )l)IDAlft '.E'1tek )'.ott You:t Honor
o 7()\1 bave tba quest.ion tu ld.#ct, ifr.
.
CrO'lftlt
.- 5
.-
. , W-lttm.SSt Y
.. 6

1
.uik tt :aaaln., tl-
- IMWtlk: lfa:,. tt M.. %NC. your
, . llonoi:t
;~-
DIS COVR.Tt llftf,:. . it, )I; .,_.nk,.
.g,

iQ
Hl. DAIEX-t '\ Aftx lft'- ._.OQ
1-ft, .lft.
~ON; ....
11.
A .l!U-.r leftf.
12
. 11. Dat. 1 ,:tgb.t.
ts
Ptd you- IWl b tbat ~1:T
M

~5'
A lo11- lo.
Q -Pardo.n1
16
A l{o..
17
Aftei: lit. -.OJ.\ 1eft the ap.u1:aat1tt

.
. lit
Q Y
.i r l9.
A Aftb l .a ab.at/I
20
.... I Y
. 21!
A o
.2.2
Q :oltt :,ou MY ,-OU ...u.4.l, t -He ..., gw:,.1
-~
A . _,, not att ha 1eft, 11,c,,..
'24

25.

26
Q Va -tlwz .a 1. ill t.bat a_padaai 1 to yo-..
kaowldl,. fttr Mr. JfaaQn. le.ft?
..
J. 10-. I ,.,., t. b'.
 l 62

.. ,
1

2.

3 '
..

. He\lOJt
A
1eftt
bo.ule ,. plAaaN. JacQle i-.o
4- . ' IQ, l qn.t ~T that I la:&w. Jtght. Mo.
5 Q You -Qit't NT tbat 10\t bow1
6 ; A . A.ftu M laft, 1\0
.,. " 1'bat; ~- 74u. . . ., . , 1 a.iu~ 10u. can.~
a . q t'h,.t ,OU ~t
. '

' 'g . .A . l Ml '/OU patbt

10
11

12 .

.~
i.1tatr tuw Vd. &UA
J.. . a.oadM-l,~,.t=
..
'Why. it J.t );U,t

~.
;tei,,a
Y'QU tllt't

a:tte~ ~. JJan,on 1-ftt

U7 tba.t: 10i lm,ow

. cu
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t. ~ -

ll'. . ;. ' '.iA~

,ir,
.i.:tda.t
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t - ... ' .
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1c1. befr:...,._t,at~oii
yott
, ..., t f. ,.. ~ .. ~-.,..... .
t:011~ oM?
. ' 'ft
I I "" J ;, J' ., -'I,. ~

15 A ..... . . .

16 4 14 12td7 . . . . .. dtJ
'1:lk. :-~
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.
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17 . 1-ftt ' J. .. .. ,. '\.- ,, it' : ; .. - ..

.. ~ f '4 'Ir

~
1~ . A . '
- .~ l I. I ;_ l i i

19 Q Who _, to. the: -,,utMid:-, it,:" CrOW:;. aftu Hr.

~o- MpsQn lttf
21 A M.r1f, at" Del cl _o4na- U. to.- of
22 a,,
~3 .. '

.211. that wu- done aftr Mr. kaalon a4 lf.r. Wa11-IIJ!, f .3.)&, 1ft.f.
~- .4- Well, l!1one Ya t.o on_t'bt floor. act uMd
-:~6 - i-f l. ,, 11 ~'
 . ..
.. t:
' .

tP ftrt:. .
'2

3 t :bS; cau tbla 'b t.t l-. ,

abtad u.cl at otit. of be n . .
att4 10\l all SQ

Arid tl\e:, oa11-d ta. -1 *.1 u4 .,,_;,bo4.y

. to
,.
li .

12.
.t, ,.

l,6

: 17

J8 -,:

l9

21:

~2 .

28

24 .

25,

~-- ' .
. i

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 21,86.4

l Whq all- le.tt!

3.

4 alone;. r,1,-sllt?
St., Dl and aoina.,
.SO that When the amb.Ulanc.e ~- .JOU wri there

5 A. . ?-
6
. .

1 b thr wn,n you were approachd bf tn- poi1c.e- otncr, or

a whoer w ooain; a1 "
a eault ot the oill; riglltt
lttght..
Now). were any. othel' call made otbe~ than to a..
li

I~ .

Q.. . ,_ ..
,Jw. .,~
At wba.t t1me1 , '

15 ...
~ .At that time-, attei- 10~ -wr .,hot,,. , .
.. , . , ,.
I
. r . : ,
.
,. ,, , , ' ..
16: A. Not that l know. or,. no. . I don tt :bihink at> 1- no.
17 . Q ' i~ .
Well., "'"" {. 1

18 A, I d.ont know.
:f.l f&r4ont
20 : . A. No, l don,rt tb:lnk a.o. I doubt 1,
....
.Did' JOU; give. thaepeople, either-
.
one ot th.
people., 01- an,ot ~hem, -Rosina, Del or Stev, &n1th,-~g ott
23,
' ": ot fOU1.! Pht1cal 'b.odf, ott ot yo.ur pe:rson., beto~ they ;Left?

-
' .., 25
26
Mi-..
~

~
.. No.
What wa, tbe naJont
Crowe. What wa th
Here you wr 1bot ,..
reaaon,. wht wa, JO\lr atte or m1n.c1
 1 . ~or .hav1n.& your frien ds, th peop l, leave yo~ 1.-4 :lat

~.
s
P~encet 'What wa 1our reaaon to~ that!
JL Wl~, l didn 't tbink - I tho:ib,t it waa wi;,..

6 so,; thttN wa no ned to involve them tn. aollle th1~

... ~
. .
7 that t~1 _bad nQth.in$ ;to d.O. _'With" to an exteb .l. ~J bad
. .
11 notb:J.ns
. tio do ~th it,. .i-eallY, .
9 Sq., ; di~ t want ~o make tr~ l tor thti . goug
IQ. I
ta .Jail.-.. Jet.ti ng O\&t on bail, .an ac.00,:-7 t>,tore the .taot

~
{I
'
and. -a.f.t!l:J thf taJt, whatnot. x, wu Ubnea&r1-
:ia Q:. ' .An4. _you thoSht- it thef r -th.r, they migh t go

}8 to -f~l_j ~igbt T t .

14, A It i_goo4 poaa lbi1i t~, 1

+s -~ Vb d!4 JOU think tle~e wu a_good P0 1bili tr
16 th,et, would go to ,.-11t
~1. A. . . JaeQaue it 1.. aga.tn,t th :aw to .ahoot a. pt11t1on,
. .
1s -and. l; .-a1 a 'Y!ictim,so, it was o'bv1oua 1;hJ wo~id be
~ii . 1!1 1nol"lt\de4 in tb 1nc-14en'(;,.
20
. .
~1 . t~at yo~ thou; ht 1\oaina., . Del and Stev- would be ~~ d
. .
~2 tor bav.i~i. JOll ahot; la that i,ight f
. 23.

'1: !ti.

. 2~ '

~6. :
J..
'What; are
Jou are aa.11ng that,. or: ar you. kin g XDl1
101.1 doi:nat
il . .
. , t
J _,.

' ,. .f , ,
,i I \ ,14.
.. ~
~

!
~ l
 .Q lam askips you
2 P.. Yo~_are aski~g me?
4 Q
.

Sure-.
.
Aak the q~eation ,satn. I 40n't :unde~atand it.

,!.'
5. Yo\l~ a-t.te ot mind was such t~at you thoght that
Roa1na, tlel and Steve would be a~.rested 1:t they were there
1 . when :t-he pol,ioe oi- t!le reaoue i:,eop.lt;t ~ Qr whoever, came to
8 ~he apa:tt.~.Jll~'b ,_ fC:,und the,n tbe:r~ Whon theJ came th.ere U . &
re~lt
. . of th-1a call'/
lQ .A. .Tb.at wasn.' t the tir~t quea.tion fOU .asked. me.
. ll . You c~gfd it ..
May I have'an:anawer- to thia que~iont
13 ...
l'e$
. . i, . ijec-ause when e..ometbi~g like that happens,
15 -to. my lcno:w1e~se::, it W'ili O&USe an 1nvatig&t1on, SQ, quite
16 natll%'al.1-y, they wQuld be confined.., they w~u1d b.e under.
11. : inve.atigation
.
.., and. that ''bakea t~:me; right?. oi. whatever.
)B ~heJ would lock them up~ tak~ them into cuatod1 ~ which

..;! wol11:4 be 9bvi0ua. wo~ldn't it1 ..

,
. ,20 . Q: .Alid Y-O\\ thoSht the-y would 'be taken 1nto ou1:bo~yf
.
~

' '' ~- A.. Yea.

"2$ ..
...

~il : arolU'ld there aa. poasibl~ conoern:J.~s your 'being ahot; ri&b,t,
-24. :
.. 25

26

. . ~--- ~ne.can
,I ..
 "

1 ..
Hl. BUGLlOSI: ,. ~11.tattv,.
... " '
,l, I

.. . - COUlft :saat-1ne4. l
2
. '
3
IY Ha. ~~1- . ,- . . . ;" f ,

'4
~ . . Well, wq .-that 1our a~aU of ind, Mr er-owe.
5
wa, tel hllOV ~b- ~idtinoa f ' f
Jo1aible ~con~f:q ttut...
... ' J

pttepl, -d 1~ ~tiiaii b:ta th ._.,

MR. ULIOSlt s-..;ol>~~~iq~..~ : .. : : ~ :
a . tmt fs ovei,:\t1a4, 10\'.l MY ...._.,
ts 1n'l'llBSJi Al$ cpaatiol'l qm, p1eaa.
'.

10 -~- ~ I ' . : ...,. t~t. ,. ];:..... 70U.r. Bono~l

l'.I.
ui couai, 1eaa -cliil que1tlr>l1.
12
~
(\lbereu.poa
"'
tt. 'Xpod.- *'" the %eoo,:a ai
I'S followt
re~ 1tata of Jd.#4,
is Hr.
"Q w.11...... t~~
"Wu. ~,;, fl:lilo.v such 1nc
CrON .
. 16 polb:le CoDMJ:iltug peofl and JO~~ the
. .6:0ia
. the ceMfff)
. ...
.
.
'l'HI wrruss: A-a ~ ev1.41nca 1 4ouc ltnc1t 'tfht;
.}9, 1011. . . . . .

20

~l . o wt-.y sbou14 ..
rt X 1 q 1h01: 4 it,
X c.ut1 Y
22 cou.:1d not bit tmdone t t ~ td.*1, o wh7 ahol&lcl X uaplioate :.
oy.owf 1aa 1 fta:tller 11
'24,
What ._,. 1~ .._, C,n you. ttll do
25 .
. .

26 . 1 JIUn. .... thn wu J1b vld,:noe ox- nothiJ.18. I

1_- - - Klve.com
 Jut td tlot wait ~o. !nvolva ti.a. I an ttt.t ..oul.4 'be

l ' :s . ., . ~.
ollvto 1fottldntt, !tf

4 .

t-~
tout'
Q thal1 ~ tbay
tht pot:l.Qa would vu pt tba~w or the
te you bad JlO- wa:, ~l bowhg
.
.-uluo. diet .

. .
9. . A Y, in I\ 1taf,. yu, tse1:tin;l7 1 told. them.. to
10. . cal.1. Why WO\llda: t '1ie1 c.1~1-
li . Q. In otbe,: 1r0rda,. -1-re. ,011 Wfta not, and you,
i2 far 1002: t Qf iJld willing
11~1, c:01toa,:4s you W%e to
havt \fezyi)na. 1, tlt,t oo\tl.4 PQl1:l.b1y ulst :,ou... o;:a. the
. .

-,01tbi:\tt1 tlult Qllllbo.4,- Jdght; how up there .., tu re1ult

;of": phoa cll; u tMt ,:ightt
' . 16
. ,
A Oh m~1#~1Y, %:Lght.
11 .Q. . W 10'JJ'I: atiaaba .u that it waw 4S IIUI.Uta1
. 18
A
19
..
21:
It
\ :
-could*
. I.
'J1av --
i -
ttbl,: or ff.ft~1 45 -~t

..
an ho\m' .:l't _~tttld M ~-~~.\ _, ~ .. 1 J _
.22. ' ' 1 ... ... ~ ,,.

. It ,..,., 11- :a 1ifet"1-, tbe',un, you DOW.

vitblieit liol in yo~J b l ~ t Jq\l.,. _._ ~1~ ~..
.-to:.~~~
I ,. .
o.nf J

you t.~iog -eo tbh.k. 'j'oii; 'kd.otr.. r

. : ' .:
. . .
q, .., .. ,o~ vr )Nn :,;cmv1.1;,ad,
# "' ~
of a -~lony,
s
4 ' 1

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,.

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A lfo, l co,vt
.
b<JW vhAt 1011.. 1J..na
. .

.
-3
: ~ ll)IOMft . ._.,. . .,
,()n thi p.ctd..eltlu utter.
1 t co~f11:. wlth 1 clUtt.t

1'Bt COOlti Ver, 11.

! p\ 5 (Wberaupon Hr. llc,J!ga. pproc tu 14tnt
~ .
8J1d holdJ an. 0.tt tba ,:acol:'4 oonve1:ti.on with hf.ti aft:x
(' .
1\t~h tba fo11owtn,: _pro~dlisa had on t~ Qoo,:4.)
.s
\'SB. ~SS:t
..
-

......
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f

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9 . JYJl~/,~l.t
. .. . ; .
; .: ~

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Aii riah,e, ~h it:, i.J.outt .hav 7ciu ba4tn
J ~ ~ "i ..,_ I f ./, ~ ,Jo ... , . ' Jo,

-co11v1oa c,ff ; .
.
12 A, On -a~ot :tti~ Jeff Q.O. . .
., ._ \ I t I
) \

What; felon:, that?,

I'S Q
14-
. i l ~all:, dolt~t tt "-4 l Jut __.._:c
lS, -i:~ir 1.t ;,bn. tb.e .p~obation -npo.i:t: or tometbf.ug Wd
1~. . . . out:,,. l vaauely ~-~ _q.b,.ctd~!ltt Qr lcall~-~--
.l -don t. bQlf t 'l'Ullf.
, _ .. 4{ toll doit,t:t bO'lf ~ 11,. wu 1t muoa,. o-r
it, api'ttf.lt&. Ott. tM 1idew,lk.T What .... ttt .

. 20 ..
A l eo.uldrl.:t t__..t,. l wp raa1 JOUDI 1
2i: :
. ju.,t. t~cl 20:, you. know., 101W!ltbil1g liM- that, l suet.
Q w11, wai tba. t*1o\iy.f
. 23, :
..
:24.
l ....
Do you 'knov """ ,clo JPti krunt 1'bat: coui-t tt:. vu
. i'Ci; Mr. 01:Q'iftf
 l Yet, it wa back !J

What city?
2
. ' .
Jhilada1pba.
4 ,,
~M.)"l.Ve.nit
5
a Y
.......
"6
.~ Altd 'Wb.1.t 1t ti. l'JMtta:e of 11:.. 42.ct it lnv.olw
:or.
~ > ~

7 ~ootic ,l\Utf
A J'c.1~ . ~o ~
9,
Wb4t clt4 it ill'fol'fl, M,:. Cl'ONf
l{I '
X c~ot actua11y ~ word t.or vo.r<l~
lr11,. vo'1J,d you tll ua in lfb.tf: field of
12 , act!Vlty it -._.. ~. c~~1.
' .
l~\, '
. . ,._,., 14 A tet think --- l caunot ,:.,_.be: t.

15' A te-, ..
. . .Q '. Aud -n4 )"Q\t 1hoot t1* ~-?
J\ lo.,,
18 .
~ Wl'l, bow. w th~ gun $11vo1vd :l.1l thl. e107
'!'
:! .
. 19
-=~n,:_ "-at ,,_. ttt ; '

' . 2Q .. A

22
. : <. ' !

23 : . A . )1o. '
. :Q,
W.11, ,ou ~.(:ently tq talk to the occa,i.on
....
had ~

~5 .
p~obation deJ~i:.t nt. ~ll.
"
'L~ Aaales. County,. is that
~.... . ,

f:Ql'X.<:tt ' ' ' ,' ; ' "

' .
., > \ ' ~
. _., "'"
 1 . A
And 1ou. d;ou,nd that- offense -.!th t~
e .2

3
Q;
pxo'batiQn offiar ht to Angel GoQntf,. %ight?
4 A I beJ y~ur p-.,:don.. .blt that qUa&tion -.gait\ .
5 MR. iANUEJ:; Su.ta.

1- 1:1,Qt t'po . 41,atant p,a,t ill tfl A.nstle Co\tnty., you 4i1cuaaed
.s < tl\at "tt~ back in :Fhiladelpbia. w"iih tbe prolttlon officer
9 tut.re, 11 that oo~ectf
lO tea~ xcu,~ , p1u..
n Sutely. ,, "
, I '

12 A ,, :Will, yt>u.- le. th.at qutst:top. ~ or, the

rs ~.t' . ~
' q\Ul.ltiQJ>.>10~ ju.it' bet f -~
l{ '.

noth1ncr
: ~

~,..
'

-, , '
.

~
,_,
~

lea," UNABEKi x.y it 1-.. r~ad, ;rou; 'Ronoi: ~ o t.here i

'-0 1o~ b. .tba "~itianl
"-

: ,II,
,~

~
..al"'. 't

1
J
'

-
..,_

"1"

16 l'BE CQtm?: ~-, the ~-tim;i.

17 (t.bereupop. t1-. 're,otter 'WU. tiw .pen&g
~ "

l8
. q.\U1ti~ foUCMal
19.
-! .... q.. WhAln 1ou -..t to t~ probtion officer
0

20 -1n :t:ha' not to-p distUlt p.at in. LQ .upl -Oountr,

:?l ' yotJ. di*-U.C14 tbt :mattff back in ?bila4-1pbia, wit!\
22:
t
l)J":obatipn pfficer be;'e-, I that onctft1)
~3 1!lm Wlffl$S: No.. il.o, no.,.
24 lSYMll.,~:

is . '
26
~ . low-
--~d 'With irobbe:ryt
YQU Y: tbat it ;tuvolved. gun. Were. you

1ve.com
 ' ,- f "'

l
.:. A lo.
Q ~-11, 'What 1: YoU chat'.ged. itht

-
2

3 A id
t I 41ovl.4 rt-ot_ 1:~u ,. you bow. tha~
t,'What I uep 1.b,ag, I 4ont r......_~ . ,
,.'.ffll OOUtrrt tie will tab i>t :rIOUI. at' th1a tlllll1
6 1ad1*a ad 1nti.a 1., 4o not convera ,rt~b 10 .n..o,: fom.
.OZ! x.Pt: Sl. QpWoii xaud4 ts peiutltt tmtit th.tt i-.
8 i finaUy "1.-a(ttd. t:c;, :,ou..
9 ?ht cott will t~ fat 15- .mto.u~i -
6 fl io (R~- )

.i'.3
. . . . J.4

,J.$.

16

i1

. 18

19.

20
2i '

22
23 ..-.

24'

. 2~
 .
... ,

~ : ~ I .
.,a-1 1 , '
'.CHE COURWJ All detn4ant .ucept Mr. ~1ori, an
2 preaenti au coU.t11l,_and ~\U'ot- r P~nt ..

; '
.. .
~~
's
~ "; ,.;.
.'
~ ? ;.

3
Jo.u lDllf pi,eoeed, in-. X*111\r-k. '

4. MR* XANJUUUC: ?bank 1ou., Y0Ul' .Honor.

5 ~ . ~. orowe.
. 1 bJ whoa &r.* 7ou. U.lPlOJ47
6
MS .. BUGLIO$I1 It' ir~eleVl,ltt, )'Our Hono-r.

.7 THE COURT; au.iaitl4

8. Q . BX' MR. .XANARiXt IV'. crow, .on :~ch or., say, in
9 Mayo~ 1970 Jou had alrad.7 apok,n to the police ~ouce~n1n.i
10.
!
thiJ
. ..
qJe~ r1gh~7
11 4 :_ l. beg tour pu-4.c>Jtt -
fit In Ma; ot 1970 had. alr4tdJ' poken th.e

.,
12 )"OUi 1.-0

'.}.3 police q..Qnoe.m:f.n.g th!$ oaee, :11i that oorreo.t.f

:14 : A. _ l d~nt lcnow th,- tim el.e)llnt.., buii l apok. to
15 the11 qetoi'e about the cas4i,, t, on -sevral oocuiona.
l~ ~ fee, tht was- btore May ot i910., :1 that correot?
..
'J.7, A. -Oh,. ye, yea

is ftl. lfow, in Ma)',Ot 1~70 O"Z' the eatl,J p~t Ot tbi& year
...~. 1g. . 10~ wer qharge4 'Id.th lori1ng 1.hl ~ ot the state ot
20 : oa11toi-n1a;.. .
.
t:T
Do yo~ remeJD.bt~ tbat?
lffl. B.UGLlOSI: i'ov Honor, I 0\?4~'b.. Th$a 1, .1zn.,-roper
'l

23.. '
'. ,.
impeao.nt,. and h knows it.
24. . m OOURTr S.u,!11nd. App~oa(th- th bnob,. CQwisel.
(fh tollow1ntt p~ooeedinga wenha4 at the ~ench
Qut of ~be hea~ing of th Jurt:)

I_ ~-Jr'Ne.COITI
 21,874

trBE COUR'.1'1 Mr. :ranareic., 7ou know thav 11 improper,

. MR. QHABEK.i Ho., 1t 1& proper.. ".

3
fHEcoua~ 1 .1ust a lllOlUnt~ A.re 1ou cont;endtng tbat th.ie
a ~lonr oonuctiont
.
.. MR. ~~JC: Boll he' got; a. b.en.11'- fro tht .Peopl. He
5.

_got a.:'bp.eti~, h wa! cb~ge~ with to~a1'1',. ill,olud1~g tn

. '1
tors'l7 o-t th Gx-eat seal of th ,stat ot Oalirom:la.,. and h
8 wu -.11owed t(? i-olYe that in a ~8 advWttageo~ ;to -bi~
9 in ~onn,ation with thia vr3 Qa becalde ....
io DE OOURT1 Mate JO\ltt otfe-r ot proot.
il . MR. 1Wi.AREX1 M, otter 0.t prcot 1 lf he wou14 tell th

12 . tt-\lth,. U- he wou14 t1t1t,that h ,a chq-ged w~tl1 to;-s,rr.

412 Qt th aPnal Cc,da, J.tl.d 001U1terftit:Lng ot. the G~at seal

-13

.l~ or' 1;he State o~ Oal.1torniaa JOql' Bo.nor, and Jieoti"f'i~

toin p~opert1 --.
THE -OOURT s Get to th Pl>int. What 1a 70v o-r.te'l' ot
11 proott
18 .. MR. A1iAimK: My otter ot p.rpot l 11' be told the
l? truib that.i h wotll<J aJ that -becauaa ot. thi o ud h1
pot\tl'.e iii tbia ope~ be was allowed to hav a raolution
.
~
'21- . ot that tb.at wu advantageou to hiDl.,: ...:
I

MR. ~UGLIOSit He ll&~- no evidQ:n~- ot th&1., 1our

.'
Honor., be has ilO. eVi4'-nc at "that. .
.. ,. \ t, l

24- - COURT, Tbat tq,~eu.- i;O ,,. j \tit a i11d1r_,e.~ "'!f&1 ft

t> :II .... ~. .:t ~ ~ 'I' "'' ,. ~ ' f

trJ.tng to_ get. in ,ct~ that 1ou know to b -ina.d,miaaibl .

' '
. Do JOU have - Yideno.e of i;hf.' . { -
\ ) . ~ ' .

Cieiooriw'com
... . 0 T,I
.
'
 ,
' ;

1 TW:l COURT t What.?

' I J 1- ~a

2 i>lR~ KAl-l.AflEK: tour -~on-or, ;,th&, e.villtnoe ia that thi

' $ ' .
.3 is what hJ.ppeneds tlie Cliil'c~t~c,a .c1ea~7 lholf. , ,
'
'4 WHE;- OOUBT~ I want to l'lea:r.. f.!ak'e 1our -ofte'J;' -of proof j
.,.
l1R. FITZGE.HALD.; I think the .law . al~ow1,. o~unel to as-k
. '

Lt tbere- 1i pend1~g asa1nat t~ witneaa 4aa proa~cut&d

7 by t~e ea.me ottice ot the Di~riot Attorn.eJ'Ot tbe :,
s Oounty.
-9 :.. lb.al is pei_,Jd.aaibl impeaC.hnwnt.
;10: TllE COURT: He did not aa~ tna.~ .
\1 lffl. FI4'ZGlBALD: It th -cu. Mr. Xanarek i i-eter.ring tc:i.
12 is atili ptnding, the theo~y bting that w1tn
'
.. '
. ' i
.

1s t.atity:Lnt with the pen41~ cas,e again1t hia 11. goip.g io be

- i~ ' bebolcien to the proaee\1t1on .

' .
'16 :tffl. Fl~ZOEaALD r No., ht di<ln 1t.
11 THE COURT: H'o.. Mi". Kanarek, I have n y.ou in
18 a~tion :iong enogh to know-,. air., tb.at ;you have .no lll0~&1s
19.. or aoruplt when it come1 to 'Cloi11g. aolilathi~g tht- 1
~o :h1p:r.ope1\,. and: you know it to be- 1mp:rop~
~.. 21 . Mow, 1~ you W"1lt to.. iet at tbia in a proper, 1,~a1 .
~ way., I will lt you do it.,- ou:t; I am. getting a litt.le bit
23 t:;Lred ot the buaine.sa 9t 7Qul' unethical -eond.uct .
24 . In a, op1n1on you lmow ~-c,11 wbat 1ou -are doin,.

- 25

'26
and when yot.i d.:2.d that 10:,.t knew .A.t was iap:roper.
In 7our ottr ot proot ;v.ou ha.v. g1ven ni nothing
 i
to i~d1oit t~at JQU kno- what. you contnd too t~ue is
t1;u.e. lt was simpJ.7 an 1ndir-ec~ wa:1 0t_getting into the

- . 3,
2

4
~ecor4 aQmeth1na yoa te~r could have gotten in in., any othr

It U 1m~roper 1mpeacnm$nt,
5-
'

.6-
Jm. 1U.NARSK-1 Your llonor, I can allk 111 the Q.\tttation --

,.1
'I~- COUR~JH 'that ia not tht: pb1ht -.t all, ~d. you
,~

8
know it".
9
All ~~ght, levt1 prooeod.

10
(Th tollow~ng proc.e,dings weN l\.d in .opn c-ourt
JI
in tbe prea,nca and lll11na of the Jury.: )
12 MR., .l(Al'1AB$K.: Your Hono~, 'ma.J' the .rco~4 N1'leot that
. '

;i3 Itir. Mo1'san 9nQe agun has .contt'rtd ..,_

14
~HE OOURT: Aa.k your- nx~, queistion, HI* .K~k ..

15. :MR. iAliAaEKi Ia that a fair atatenientt l J\l&-t want-

16 th;e reQord to i-etleot it-.

l'Z THE couair t Aak y.o\U'- ne~t qtteat1ort.

ia. Q BY MR~ KANAREK: Mx-. Crowe:i are you. prea.-ntly
.i9 awa1ti~~ a dipoa111on or a cr1Jllin~l cas int~ court12
. io J,.. I retus tQ ans-er on the grounda I JU.11norimina~a
21 myaelt on- the ~d'.vioe -Q-t 1J11 i.ttorn.e1.
22 Mfl, KANAB!lC: That tis not perJDi-411\ll-e, JOuit' Honor-"""

~
trtm CQURT: Aruswe:tt the question. Mr~ orowe.
, !l'lll:i WI~llESS t ,Aok the qut1on gatn pl,
- .. II
~M
' . '
~ea;
. ~ .. ~
25

,?-
MR,. .KANAREK: .May 11;
-
THE OOUR'l':
.
l)o JOit p:;-e-ntly ba-t
.
be y-our
.' ) '
Honort
a. Ol'1airtal oaae
~. (. :*' ~ ~ . ' .

Cidril 1!"1ve.eom
t ; ,. ' ...

I'- ,
 21 8

1 p~cU.ng 1n the coux-tat

.... ~

3
TSE WiTNiSS-1 -Ye.111.
Q BY MR, WABEK z What ouet
4 . rm. BtlGLlOSI: I Ob~ect; J'OUl' Honor it . 1iwrlv~,.
~ ... , .5 MR, DHABSK.t l t is Gttere.d on th bat ot the benf1'i1
(i.
' .
7 MR, .BUQLXOSit Yolll" Honor., ~~ ia_.mak;l~g a statement
' ~ . t / .
8- 'ibat bntit,.1 &H al)Cr'l.S.n&i . I' Ob~eGt- to t-h11,'t.
. . ' ... . .~

THE OOUBTi ~uat~~ned. : ,. _. .. .-,

9
.
\

' -
16 MR. l}tll)LlOSt: .. l would ask the Courii to.-- adiaon1~ the 1

11 .

i2
... ~ ' t

13 Tim COURT, The J-u.r1 will d.1.aregali<l.

t ..
~ . .Kanarek'
. ..

i:4
.,
#ta:~emtnt
15- 4k your ~ext queat1oni
16 ' Q :et MR, KAltAaEltt On December 2, l.910; YJJ'. -Crowe.
i7 w.er.e ;y.ou J..n court. :ln .Santa MoniQ?
,.[8 )JR- ~UGLI0$X t I~ t.. 1Jtrelevant
l9 .THJ COURT: Suntaind.,
20 Q B? MR. lCANAREK: At the prent ti, Mr. Qrow,
... .
.,
~i ._: . Y:~\l t1; tb,re .on the lfitnea tand, 1a J.Q~ ,sta:te 0~
22 : mlnd Bt\f.)h th!,'b 10v. kl:1-0W that 70.\l hay not 1t ben
. . .
23 aenttnced.. on a ca. -~ Santa Moniq.t\;t
MR11 BUG:t.IOSI: ~1 l.a 1i-nlev1nt,_ iour Honor.
25 :tR. KAltlr\!ltt . 'fh:1:U J JO'\l.r Roner ""'~
tHE OOV.M': . SUllt'a1n4
 l MR. KANAHEK: May 1.(e approach th bnch, y,our .Honort

, fOUl." next queatiQn.

2. ~ QOURi: Ask
'

4 . bench.~- thn,. youx- Hotior-1

~ ...,. l? wm oounr: You .tere. given th4,t oppo~unt t1, Mr.
.6 Xanlitk.. fl,'oced-
~'-=....
7. - :Q ay MR. J.{ANM?ElCl In De-camber ot 1.9'70, Mr:. cro1te,
. .
a Joa la\w thf.~ 1ou lt:t~ _g<11ns; to be a w.ttneaa in thia -Qa *
'9 l. tliat corrqt?
'10 .A. . Doemo.xr what t
it

12 . A. l thitllt o~ :~ +U not. ~
. .
on the date when I. got
13 :: the ubpoena.
I
.. ,$. '
I -
. ~.
'

e-
I

'''

:1.4 . ~ Well~ 1our atat

.
or _:mnd wa
l . ;' ;
.auoh in Deoembe~
' -. ,. . .
. .
ot 1910 that 7011 ~new that _1ou .woqld. 'be a_.w1tn -in tni,; oa ,-

l-1 . .'

-is-- , Frha_pa ....... I a.on rt .know t

Sb- 19 .
'!'

-24'

Cielo[)-iveoon1
 .
l

.,.
.a, 2

. . =3 ... t.~n, like

A tea., l tldnk. ,o., ti.. .28th o.f
.
that. l' 'llOt aura
n.-...1: o,: ~

:Q. 111 Jllo*be,: of 1P10, Hit. -~OW-1 ~ '.befoi:. .

.
'
s J)ec-.i,.11 of 1970, your
.
tt ,of ld.ncl .a.. ,uOh tMt 1()'1 bew ..
6 ..
.

you. ,: .aotng to -'.be i,itne itt W

. .
ca.... u -that con~c .
~
7, J. l)ecei{)ek',, 1910? No,_ the 01117 tia I bn, wi.u
, ... ~ ' ... . . .-1 '

8 r. &ot -1>,oeoq,4. ~ ~- .iwthlni 4'.f~t.e until l got ti.

'-
ub
. ):10.U.,... . . .. . : . . . ..
, ~

9
. +'. { ; ~ / .,_

10: ..'i.t aa7 .l11. -t~ :s~,t .o!_ 1970~ 7.ow: .#tate of
. - Q, :
Ii -1.ncl -~ ~uch thai ty4d ia. tha~., :,o-,. ~WA.t1d i..- a lfitu in
12 th _..,... ., la tba~ -c;Ol'XM,t.,-- :'. . .-i., ' ,:.. ._',
, \ ... t

1'bat c~fl It.a..-. bep po1aibi1lt:,;. ;.,

I .. .. T ,t ; I _, -\

13 .A
1~ ' ~. 'lou. Inn that. . t
: . ;" .... ~
- r ~ ~ ~ l
t ,

Yov.r t ~ w-.., .~ you. p\tt it!, tl\at it #Qll14 _

1;7 .
Y
Tb.a~ S 110t . PP1b:tltt:,. rhat it ai:eali.tJJ
that: ia fox ,u
20- . . - JUGI.:tosxi '4-.--ntat:L~.
I

~ -coui-.r-: SU&td-
22 TH$ WlflCESS l 1'1* !t iJ _. :tel:lt,'_,, it. 11Nmiftf1ta
1tuJf...
"THE COURT: Wdt .fo,: tu J!\lllq, ~~ CJ:awe .
25 , BtlGI .~ K t
' . . '
26 .
Q At the tble dul'iqg t11a -- of 197-0, 111 y~.u:t
 . J'
- 21,880 .

i .tnd y.o11 ~ thh.iking 7ou u-14 k a wit:ne in ~

-
-~ . thi e&P;. . ia that' OQ#rctf ' .

' '
A . l tlOt bu.var l got tile 1ubp~.
tha'l :ta n l knft t lWa. goiug io 'be a 1fit1111,.
=.
.... ' Q YOlt bid talked tp. pol:l~ of!ioiar1 on bow llll11
' '6' '. occuiL-ou dlu:b& lf7d ~onotl;d.ug thts o Hr. Cr.o.w.f
1. ,: A l ommot . ' t ~ .
! ~ ,,
. ,s Q . rudb11t
.A
10 Bow1!11lly. t1Mt
u ; . ,.
Q

X an. give you a rou.tad-~t- fip,

fbt tbe bdd.o1ct. a coup1a I dont'f;. mow.
.......
I

: . i'tl

' .
15. '' ' . y ~ polict or the e.uthcn:1~1, what do 1ou
~6- :
.. .
17 .
J"Oll't -or ftv tiMa, ~hblg 1:1.ke that. t pea,
X &;,n t. know, aomnbe:e 1-n t:ba~- uea .
..
Q And. 1'bc. dU. you. 1peak. witb, lift., Crowf

_20 . A . . b1;~lg~tin8. of:toe,:J.~ brt X flrt. got: shot
. . . !
21 ~d I ;;. jO!ng io die I talbd t:o 1'4om.ic.1,. thou- pecfla
. . .. ,22 ~ did:~~~ _. qal~,. .:~ 1 ... bJ1 '111. -~:a.th bed~

.-- ,
25
After: t~C I t~lkef 1fi~
..
.. t '
,'
t
~ \. 't
-t

.W~ld. ~ - - ~ -~ ~f.!t~f;t paa1T

1, :
,f:- .....
~

~
" J

1
-L
toe :1.n,a~tsat:tq

.,

...

'

'

'26' '
lf I bAaQ it: Ullltit;t.oned I could, you ka.Olf I l
 1 1fQUl.d &J.tl'MJ:r that i#: it: &

2 '
l'ot ~tght ,~f~cl. X d.on 1 t .
3 .
Do yo._., knO'W M,:. S.rtuohet
lb:.. Sutu,che?'
5 '
Yea.
6

. 7 .
t
You poltc with hbl. ccmat:nbg thll ~ , 1:4ht? ;
8
l thiQ ao~ 1 th'btt that i.1 bi.a _ . .
You. thlllkt
. 10
ta xiot al1
.
Df t~ QIIII
. '

'
Ii ,
Hr C\ltlu:ts, dicl you Ml:. Gu.t:lure'l
4 '.
,. . . .

.t Y
'

-
0:- ./ l

1 I
-q
;,c ~

. . . ;A 1'
15
~l,
16 .....' . ' '
17
))!4 IMt tn.yq\t tht . 11u )ha ~,:1- of the
, 18, : . . . . ... .
' : .'

19
)m ... BUGi.IOSI: Thia i ugu.ent~tiv -ad i:tticulcm.
~o '....
DE (lOUlf: SuttatnldAl
21
ftll'll .. ~ k t
.~ W.11, ~ 7-our dic1.U1ii11 nth Ht~ Gu.ttm,
2;1 ,;
it . b o t i ~ thi, cue,. no .-at.ion. x.ight'l

.... 25 ..

26 '.
A
l.l
Ye, that. ;!pt .
Aud, HJ:-. Satt~ 1t w lo eol\drniq th!,
" :i:ightt
,. ,_
l

2-

3,
A
Q: .A
Y-- ... who iw .Mr. Saft:u.chet'
~xion Q#!Mr than .Mr:; :GutieffP 'VbO 1..,
l,oa .Ang~lea police Qf~i~~ yoa have spoken with,conceitttt~
4. th:l Qe.1el
.:
5 . A Ya 1, cett.:f.l'lly, tight.,
6 ' Q. Would.; you tell 1.1# on what da.te thua. wre,
~
~
':t tu 0Qti.\f~ft:1ona wete,
. "

* t,:qw-?
-~
, A l 'Colll.<ln't vary 1"111
.
, : ~ r the dates,. I
.
~- 9
canitot. v-,1.rr welt x ~ r th& dates.
10

_ll,
' .
l~ A la tbl liaU of Juati~e hei: 01\ tha fifth floox..
i~ o~ tu. the ~- 4'>tmt;r -~ t ,aw the. .g.entl~ her, tbe

' .
.
14.

-1$,
Qffiger,.-
Q. .Jy the Mir" CQunty,. you
'

an tM new -County Jail! .

i~
~
A. . t, the, l1.W Co\Ulty Jail.;
17 ~ You. -weJ!'t in custody7
'18 A Ye~ twe,
,.!. . 19 .Q . . ltiabt?,
20
,!'
v"
. . .
21
And YQU. were- in cu,tody en a 4Ua tnve1v1'tg :
22 : ttff 11'. Sa.lta Monica; ,rilbt? ' '
ii"
~
-~ A
$, '

. ,I,~~""* to- anave,= t~ -tion..,

: .24 MR. ~ J : 1 t~ H9'10f ,...;. :, ; l ~ ~

. ..

-TSE COUR.T.t Au_,,.,;

; . }
:
. 1$.. llUGLlOSl: tt 1 .lttelevant -.
'
i.

<

~ 4,wlt4ln
'r ", _.._ ,
:.i

....

,7
~-

.: ~ ,'
, ,.

.'
:lo
~
' ,.

~ I : ' 'I' -, ..;...1-n.... . ...

' , I ca~JJ l\'E!.corn
 . 1
. J't 'UlfAIEl'.t .

-. . .2

4 .

.wete tu wtocl7
~

. 4*!,q
And wou~d 1ou Wl
. 1970i. lfr. CJ:owe.!
.
Jill. 1-.I0.8It lt la :tt:t;,lt.,rartt. .
u ~ period of t::t.. you

... ,,..

5 .
... :r.AlWl'Rt tour aoaorj it g~ to tbe bentf:tt
it ~ 1Qaor wl l 1ft11 IU1m n...-t t t bench.
7 It. ia oleat"ly xt.lev,u1t.
;8.
m tol ~ 'Objcti<>lt 1$ -tabed.
9 .
. '.It ll'I.. l'Alf,t\J.BK:.
10
q; Wbtn yoti r
on ~11-.- f:Lft.h
.
floot dilQ~ting
.
t~;
~ ,.
11 .
ilitte . :t:118 tt-,: pe,:tato.:l.ng to tlti- caM
.
1111th
1~
tlui. l.Qa :Ansel police offic.-tl, -,: ,ou: fltthe p2:t1.,_oe

13'
of ,ui:, .s.,tcy dlat:r:ict: ttori\eyt
14
A 1-,, .
1&

A tes:
11
Q ' Ml:. J(a:y.t
lB'
n I in tba
A i,;~ of ~ o;ff:lce~,,. tu
-19 .
i.nve,1:J.at~ officer?
20

21
A:
Q
.
lo., I dod.t t thbik o. . .
.
'fott apob ,ia lO:" luglioi lfben Yo\'f. r 11ot
.

'28- . . .
t:alt.d.ng ta tM po1iqa off;oui.,.
.
-u that ...t"lahtf.. ' '

A - I nc:,t -~~~ :t tbibk, Ol:Lil tbie1. tll.t t, t110

25
..
. -a.a,a .-o,'
'

r
,,. . .; ;,,

l; -tp~,j 41{ Cot,tl4 PY hen& p()ll.,ilatatl.. ~.;,

~ -I

' I- 414 no~ ~ow ~ o~a~1~,- ~f ~people.

J ,.

'I. .1- "i . .. ..

r "\ ,.. ,.
 I
. . '
'l. In 1970 did y011 tlk lo Hr. $to-vtts ot the
-- 3

4 .
J)lstri-ot; Atto~Y! i Offlaa,. eputy D11ttict Attornay st,rd.t;.:
.l Stcwit,:? -;t ~nnot :r.....e:t.. t -cloii'' t: lmOW+ l
...- ,. .talked to ,o aan," -~opl_.
-6 .
,,
Q. , ?c:,u t:lkl~ to a. l~t o! .,~p1e tn 1n -tn.foxc~t.
7 :
,,oncenf.ng tld c...., %:tgbtf
:8

-9 ' ...
, A lo, ,1bt. ..;. -do .YOl.l t 1:o cOW.tt t:bea or
tw.ttb:l.ug ....
10 .
I 4,;,nt: bO'tf, tlfO., fo~, stx -- two.- fotrt lllt
. .

12 .
abt pe41p-l-. "" eight peQpk w1tii._ t:he ~- b.oaiotde1 .
.
:Ln tt _
5c fL,s.

14

15..
f . ,. I ,", ,
.
" .r . -

,1.6 .

17
~ - ., l -"
'
'I
..
'f
I \'. . ... -. }
' .
18' ' '
',
'
..
;,
'19

20- .: , .. .'1..-fl
,. t t z .. ... t .
" -! ~ I ~ " ~

2i. :
. . '
' ,22: .

'.

2f ..
. . ~5

.26
,'
 21,885

';II .

Sc-l. Now, were iou iu CU$tody, --.how1ong were 1ou 1.n

. ' ..

. r -

. 2 oustod7 4\\.1'1ng the per~o~ ~; .~97P, uUJting th 1e.a~ 19707

ft. 'r' ,iJ-~~1,v:an~,.
' I,
\ I_.

3 q. BUGLIOSI s I _ob3~~t j 1~ur... ~91\q~ ..

... ' \ . 4 .
~ O.OUR'l_t !)u.1t1inet. 1

s Q Bl MR. KANAR!Kt Did 10\l"l'la, .,.

- It
oon.vtt-r,atiQn
~ l , 4 .t
.

~ . . "' 1- . . . ~

with a police otffoer,. I'f1s. Otowe 1 ~ oonti,ct.1on with J.ot,&l!

-.-
6

.z . &ettin& out ot -o:u,tod1 1 in connecttQn. witll

.
...
' . - ... -.~
~ht~ ca~1
s J. Wl;l':l.,h GU ia ~ha,1;1"
g J)id rouhav a oonveraat1on with a police
.10 ott1c_e~ v.b.1le tou were :,Ln -ouat~d1: concemi~g JOUl'. ge~ting
H o~t ot ou,tody IQ~ wha~ever you were 1n cu.body about
12 ~oaua, or your ttimont in 1;h1a oaa,-, .
1a No, I noi aure l wa,_going t.o-~e a witneaa
L
e u unti:t I w-.s. ubPonad. Ju1t llkt;, 1 waa subpoenaed b11ou to
is ~ea detnae w~tn to~ ~aon
.16 ,_ cou.wr; Jut an-~
l_'/ ~BE WlfNESS:. I -~~n 1t know,

. 19-' :
m.ootmwi ,.h.
Read the quetion to the vitn
(Wb,r.eupon, /repo~J:k. reacta the pendi~g question

1>14 .you. ha.ye a con'fertton lf1th a

~ polio, Oftioe~ W~ile JOU Wfre 4n 4\lltOQ COnOtftiQ
2$ tc1ir. getting out ot ouato<ly tor whatever: 7ou we:re
2i . 1:ri -custi>dJ abou-t; "t>e.oaue.e of JOUJ' tea~imon, :ln thia

26
ca.aet 0 )
T@.

'UfNBSS: Oh., no.

(
-~~
- JrNe.can
.
 ..-.......

l Q

~
.4,
sp.eaki~g about, Ml'. Ox,owe,.
iuor.ning, i-4,ghtf
Yea, :r.e
1 .the .1u,bpotna I. ga.Te. -JOU thi

s- ~ Nolf, J1i1 question 1; at; the tisne that 1QU were in

6. custod:, wu. there an7 411110U1a:$.on \letn iou ~4 -the polio
~- . .

1 otltoer aQo~t got~~~, ou~ ot c~todrt ,

w A.. nat police orticer- ....... l d:an1 t un.r'\\and tlte
2 -queastion. Reph~ lt- tor
1.o ,. ~he.r-e you ~e 1n tht- Qount7 ~&.1-1, tallei~g to a
14 polio otficr-. oon,em1~$ ,th1 caa~,. right t
12 A. t. . . .
13'
. And in tbat ~onv~'.b1on _did .i;q. 1,011oe ottic~

- 14

,, 15
l6.
talk to :,ou about your' gatt~.s :o~t ..' ot-'the Count1 Jail.?
Ir.
AM
.,..,o.
'll1
. ., ,' .,. , '"' r'

'
, .

'J

.~ NYr .nt1on11d that f

'J-7
..
Q. I ,. tmd wha.t. _polio ottJ.cer waa, 1t- that 7ou
. . '
19 .apoke to in t'he -CQunty Ja:11 wh;t.le 1011. wri ;ln Cll.lltQdJt,
-~ .

21.
I , gue
.

Do you -aee hinl irt tJie -eourtroomv

tea.,..
'Wbith_gtntl~ i itt

-~ \
The.gentl&:m.an in tbe fourth .row with th gold &\Uit
 2 A. Ye1 , Sa:rtu,ohe, I_ gua-. l .

3 <., '."Cb ,,ntlman l(l10 rdteit ! hia J.tt hamd!

4 ' .I'' < '; I ~

5 ,MR.. .KANAREK t MaY. the NCO:rd .re:tleot' tha:tt, it itetl6ct ~ ... ,.f ..

'6 Sl't.uobe , youl:' Jic:nor?

, . ' . j . , ' , ' : ,
THE -COURT:. I -de>n 't lqiq:'11( 1tbethe~ ~1i- doea. or- not.,- ,
, .J~ -ii
'
;
. ,
'

8 :Kana-rek... . AiSk the .peraon; wh$.t hi1 n,me 1-

~ ; I

. ~. BVGLIOSI: So atipulated. .i }

10 ~HE .~OU!Ti Atl right,

. 'Q:

12 <,\ls.tcdt and apok to :r-1r. Srtuche concsemins thlts :case,

13 :. you ,poke t<> him. eonc~rnii:i; th cue yo~ wet- 111 ()uatody
- : 14 a~out,. l'~@tf
15 tea.
16

20
-
.....

22

. , . .2a 'tl:lt ha,.~ ~d. saying, irstar out Qt trouble-, 0 a.n4, 11 Ste rev.
24. . 1-.te.r. 1t. Tllt 11 all,
X:t. wa1 ab.out '.th1.$ caae, tbe -ca yo\l ar .talking

CieloDrive.com
 21,8.88..

1 ~ Wbt did. you tell h:J;ln you 1f.ert in tro\ll>J,.e a~QUt t

,2

4,
'MR. BUGLIOSI:
i~ QOORT1 Sust&1.e4.
MR ~ABEKt
Tltat is ir,..eltrtant.

Your }!onQr ....- then 11&1 I app:ro,ao~ th

~":
,5 btnolt'f
. _.

!!',~.
6 - COURT : llp.. l'rC:)td:.
1 Q BY Mlt. ICAN'WI'. i But JOU did d1aowsa With lliII-,
8 then.,. 7ou.r
. Dla;tt~ .the reuon
,
thai;
. y.ou. were in 'uat-oc;ly,
.
_g
r.iabtt ~ht diacud with him?
10 ,,. A.. He aake4 me~ -queation abou~ .J.. and I gav him.
. :ll '1n ~-Wi' ;_ JOU lmOW, tha.t 11 ail ,it waa ..
i,2 It 1!fAS not a dicua~'ion,. it waa ~uat .a

queat:1-on anu an .nwJ-, .

13 Q......, A.. .
14 q. . . Now~ wh,n iou have ben in oo\U.-t .1n .san,:;a, Monica
'"f5 in ~onnc~1o~ wlth the matt,r you r ~n ou.todJ tQr
l6 1-n. 1910 -- ,
17- A. I beg fOilr" ,p~4ont
is 4 Y~u w4re in c~it 1n SIUlt~ Mo.nioa in oonnectton
...j; 19 with the llattar JQ~ were
'
~tt custody. ln, in l.970?
l

,.
2!1 I. MR. llUGLIOSI : t
+rl' lttnt ~- -~, -. '
,..: ,
',
"."'
-~1

.22
Q :SI MR~ JCANAREK t Wh11-e: ,~u .~.-_.. ~n iii c~urt};ioua~
23
in ~anta Mon#,oa.> Mr-.
. ' .
Crcwe1: 41<1
. .
1011 a:Ls:euaa
; ,'. -~
t~i ci.
' ~ ' ' ' ' f . '
,
:
.2{ with anyone .1n thitt (JOunllouaef ... , \ .,

25

26, I .No,.
.A.. No not to '141 knowledge... Do I r,meintun:t -.it,t., .. ,
'

l
., " t

.I '
i
 21,889

2 A. No, thr :l,, no doub-t about;. J.t-1 I had no t'eaaon to .

.3' l 414n'1' even know l vae.-ioing to. be a part Q:t J.t
4 I.kne thr w&1 ~ poiaibilit1 otoauae ot
.5 ooftV'ittsiJtion baaed on,. yo'1. know t uWbat bappened to you
6
'
pe~taining to that
' . 1n~i~l4ualOl:larl1e Manson?"
7 Q. iU.ght.., attd you had converae.t1on- at .a t1M -- .
.8 you bad a conve.ration coru1~g Obarl1e. Mana on J.t th
9 tim~ when JO\:l were in, court .1n sa.nt.a I-tonic :oonol'll1ng 1ot.Ut-
~0 case, right?
ti.

l2

l3 '
Not ill court, tio. '
' ... . .
l I j "i ,1 ~ ' !,,_ ~ 'I' --. < r
14 D~d you htV it 1n the -QQ~Yta9ra~~ in the

~5 . cO\irtJtoo,n 'Hben th ~Otll'~ was not_ d.~ -~~~1Qnt~ 1,, ~ ' . . '. '
I6 . ' t .... ). 1
A. No, no. I

17

19
?: th .roseoutor.
20:
Rigb,t. And rou know wba.t pol.10. o.rt10:r ;La?

22

23
.Jo'l,i hd to go, to Sant.a. Monica. in oonnect:ion lfitll to\U'" oae
~hr, .tight 'i-
25

26
.J.
Q;
1 b& your })&rdont
.
On ooca,ion yo1it had lt'> ~o:Jant Mon1oa 1:Q. .
.
j.
----- .
-----~---,- -..
CieloDrive.can
--
 _1 connection with ~OU~ oae, Wnioh WU in the Santa Monica
2. : . superior .C.Q\\rt > . rignt.? .

s . .a. Yea ..
~ And ~~ile. you wer there at Sant~ ~onica did JOU
-~ diaQUea Mr. Manon With the Dputy n1,t~ict Attorne1 ~n
.fr B.anta Monica;?
,,
'I
7''

'
JO ...

u
12

15

16 :

19. '

~;.

21:l' . '

-~.

-24
.. ., .
~
,, .,,~--:-~-. .-
" _ ... ~
_.-i..
JI:~
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,26, '
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.
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t, I ,

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1' ~ ,, .

' i
A l{o..,

3. . Q. 1.ta 10llt, :e.t' -~--t:t.,: #dt:t,ug ~t'r.af:ittg ill

u b. Sm.lta Hon~!'
~ ~
,
< .,I.' ! T

. ... a

4 CQlllllctlort with that. . . .

' ' ' t ~.,. ~ ' ~ ~ ... ' C < ~

. .
A.. . 1 ntua. :to "'~ ott t~ :~o 'that it- uy
;J ,.
< ~. .
ino.~~-1-- nlf., Gd. on ~ adv1ca. Qf 1 'attotD*y.
7. n& cooai, Antwr tt. .p,t101\
,'~. . MR .. ll>IQAlU 'YolP: HoMr, :uy l approa,h the ~it?
. ffl - ~ , I dt>\lt thtnk it la '-dY
iQ ': :
,

. J.uNJ:.ti. padon, . '""'"

11 1-d you. bl- thl .~Jtion:f Axe you p~eMtJ.t1y .

12 a'tfd~tilg Ptt.bmeingf ..

n ,.. wlmssi iAJ.1 x ~ t it. 1, untuo1wd. 1 .

M .. X dont ~ lt ii ~ot Q~ With, .
11?: JG. XAlWm'.r:. tou .an nut;l.q antanctq on 't:bau
16 n ..l i t-..t oouaot,.. )fr... Ct'Otftt.
:ii. wmsssi ..._,. x a '

1,8 , 11 tl:ult dptt .

.' .
, . ,., .. 19 .... ~ t ~ ,701.1.,. Ht.. c,:.,...,.
...
20 .,
, tltE li~S$1 Ila, lt U ttQ.l ~tpt
. HT attotrill7 1 it if not iqht.
lta 1 -.y .att.tome.1. ..l 44:>XJ.l t boif'.
m Ulft .. n.ra i ;not}d:ag: i-n.J.n&.
M . ~-1.o-.... '

-
An7 .
S-1.th? .
..25 ,:
a. Dltlh Jo, ~ ~-- . .. .

Bl ,COURTt Jf.t. Ju&itott.- -any ncUxectt

 ~ :

2-

'll lflli 1$UOLl'.OSl1

4 .

. 5 '
4 W J'Jt1 a Negrot
. A I beg your pardont
. '

Q hf X.1 ..pq,
7 .
A l(o.
s ..
q: X scew - grot
9
A lo.-
10 .
Q X J:bt -.si-ol
.l:l
A lfo..
-Q.' At :tbe. td that Mt l(an.on hot Jots., '.clid you

18.
'
- 14
ha:tni bif -OQ. yow; Pf11:.Q.itf
. _ A. lo,
15,

16
~n yOQJ:. ~0111 1, tbat: oon-ectt
11
. A ?hat l& Con#ct.
q Wu. yau -~~ with; 1 t ~ .of deadly oir
'1-9 . 'i'

pot\ --~~oeT
., <

:20... 9ff-.1.,. ~ ., t ' ~ ' (

A .- ,: l{o} - -
le , . ~cl :,ou, ;it.,\1,11)':tiiilef;'.ttti .~. - ~ tbt 701,1
. .. J ~ :r .,,

1;
,.t _ 'Ii ..

U.d 1.n Y !ubiont , ~ ~. r-< -I ~

,

,a; : t ... t ., ~ '

24 4
.11._ . .
,._,Q_. . li'".,I. ~=~. "~\

'25 ,
.. JUGLlOSlt lo ful.'thk qua1t:tona.. . _..
, ' ,, ,, : l '

THE COua!t AtJ.7 ;eoro11f ' . -~ . ,,

 ~

' t'
- .. } ,
1 ,. RE!all0S$ ~ O N
,
.,
4 UY,)lt- W.t.~__.~
/li'E~ ' . ~... " "1
!
., J.
.' 1" '

;Mr . -0~, yo~ arf,i VtJ.ting book.I :a:qhtf

~ ~
"' < # I <~ ,. "

Ma ..- JUGLlOSl: that is ti:ret,vant.

1 - - i ~
o ' . ~ -,
7 ~ 1,111.-ss,: Mo, 1 ~J.tQt ... _., .- ~
8 . , . '\
1

'!1($ :COU.IT l 'SUlt~d,.

9 .
J'QU. JIW" tp 4own, ,tr,.
'
wimss:
'

'tBE:

l 1tllt 1 .,,., . C a "

im. JiJGLlOSit. !hi :t?otJlM u.lt .lliohdl Irwin

. .
Ml. HPiGAlh Yo~ ROIIC, Y l ,a4dn1 t1* CQurt,.

14 .
. JS :
J>lat
9 COUit; l'
kl-. )1)10.0h' . May tlu;a 11it.iwl a4 :rAlf be X<tttte.d?
!$. ~ i . , Y,;,J.tr ltol'lbt,. ha 1,, Wl.&ar wull~ t:o
flturo. on f'bJ."11U7 thf 8th at. td)() -
iB .
lk>ltOAlU .'fbttf.1 llt.ruu, tht $tlti
THE OOUU,. Yea, .,. Kot.'gu~ -
.:t
20 '
N.R.. DIOBl-: Betoz Hr. Cr 1eav, yo~ lion.or.,
:21 . ,
1 ,f()Jlcfei if .,Ottt llonos: can irlfar.m. tu.- bou.t tu. l>tJb:1totty
~2 .
ort-'i
.,
m COUBrt Art yc,u f-1.lic "1th
'
~hat o,;da~-, Kr

-~ .25

26 .
llorg-t'
!ta. lt>lfWH lto, 1
D.l COUdr Cl':rk will. .aiva ,o.u a copy of tb
ilot,. ~ Hoaor.
 . 2'1 ... AU.
,

l o,:da~1. Mr. ko,;gan.

2 lliil fQ\t advt JOU% e-lient. tbG. Jia i u.bjc t
tp that: orct.1:t.
Mil, B>QU: tcur j

s .

'i
1S

!)

10

11-
.
.. .~

1~

~~

,4
, 15.

16

tr

.., . 215

2t

.
23
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'
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- " ,

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, ;
.,.
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.C%~oi~.cc~li
 . . . - , . .-
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21.a,, _
I . f
;. - ~ '1 ~ .... ... ~~ " ~-' .... - i- -;,

,t I ~ ~' , j, I '~ .., ~ ~ ' : i

<*~- lf.chal' nl.lt ''1ltaJ:1 1:ba. CburiJDQI\.) I

4 . ' ,.,,

~pe-
2 :.
'81 CLIU.1 1oul4~,-ou,
... . . d.Jbt..luuld,
t:~~.J'Q\i# . ... .
p1
.
Would. YQl.t pl ,df:,:
4 ..
1 do ao~1, .,... ....,
-~ .
la' llmmSSt I do .101-tlt MU ......
. "
' ......
. .
~ '
ftB Cf.Ill: that tlw tat!ut<,ny l My glva -- .
. .
.B WmtESSt that t'bl ttqumy 1 ..,,. glva -
s ..
fBg C.LiJtlt .,. in tlMI o-.e 110W Plttdl'Q ..,..,

1D
- Q.IRi ~- Nfo.re-. -thu 'CC\f.t't ~..
'' . 11

,:: 12
m trllflG:SSt -- 'bdo 1:&1.1. co=t -
fl11 'oi&1X1 -- ball N ~he txuth ....
'
.,.
. I
m& . wxmss:
. ..... 11. be the truth --
.

. . - U.B: . -~ tM 1 t>:uth . .
15 :
a wlbiss: ~ llbot. tJUth :... t.._
~ CLIBXt -- mt4 llQ.1:ltlirg but the tl:\ttb. --
16 .

. it . .
,._ llli'tmSSt :'"' eel 1iotb.in& but the ~ ~--
. .
n& :CEB: -- ao help .,. Ced.
. '
J.9. . .
' ~ . _DI Wtn'$S.i: So. balp. Go,;
. . ~0-
~ CLUK: WOJA1d. ,w J>a u.u4, pi...-.
"" pt ttat
t

22
ltou1d . a '
.,.11 your oaiM:s
IP W~SSf Jlto1-t1 1nt11., g..~.W-ln.

i-t :.

,e ;25
 1 '
MICBAEL UWllf,

4
c.Xled tlf 'Witne,a by and: on 1-lllf o, t:lla i>Pple, ba.v.tng
i,.~ -arat .dally mm,. t1tl:!i1r1 fo11ow:

5 . '
' .
11' l- .JlUCLIOSl.J
~ What !1 ,our OCQU.pti tht
:8 "
A. . l box b~7 anc1 a tudent.
. 9.
Q lid you know a .:ludividual l'JAIQld Guy Bimnt
lQ
A 1-a, t di-cl.
l1
MR..ltm.lOSlt Jour Honor.,. I bave.- bei- phoiosrph.
12
)tf.y it 'b. ..,..,... Jeople 1 P-2. 'by .htcorpo;at;toi,.. br nteftnce'
tQ Supuior Court, c... No. 0,14.52?
. 'nm, COUifJ lt wiU 1- 10 marbd,
15

16 .
st * :amx..tos:t:.
. ~ l bQv yo~ Ptople JZ
.
17 '
1l.o ,-ou. know 'Wbo t. ahem,. ta. cbat photoa,:qh
.18

J9
A Y :t do!l'
:2Q .' '
.Q. Who u th.tt
21
A :Caty H:1-..
~2 '
Q. lLow oldw.a ltll'.IU.'01
23 ,
I baliev.- ~ -. -w ~-
;?4 ' . '
Q... QN~ 7611'_ ~Ltfl,- -a.plaf.n ,cur epint--U, -
.25
witll lu ,: ~-at~.. ~ '
A,
'
. Mt.; il~Di .i .it- ,ta
< , \

. , .
f~-~~.t
.
ad.
' '
itte1*vet
.

.. \. ~

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 . ..,,,
l . yau:t: tiq10t: ., ,.
' (
t
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2 1'8l COUl1:J b.vemti.'d~. '.

3 ..

Yot.tr ,u:tJW1:.,. : --~ l
l . 1 '
"'
.
4 . ~-WrrliRSSt . .AltNli it1 ~,' ' ' ~

. . .

. 4:!l,. MR. IAtWtBli T~. ~

Honor-, 1 wtt:ad tbt, is. ... ./ .) .. ., >ll #' J
1

. ,'6 .
~~g :ln cnly apj:Aat- -- not: qat.t11t: lfl: . ManlotJ. I
'1f0nd4a,:' ~! 19ur HollOt would. 10 inform -f;he. Jury
s . Ml[. ll~IOSl; That i~- your Hon~. th*- _Pople
g: ' . ax otflli::f.ng * e.viden<* only aaut. af-.dant su.~
10. . At:ld.._.
J,l -a4aoni1ffltd that tb tt~y
ti$ COUfft . The- jl#Y i8
12 nf this
. , ldt;n-.1
. i t9 a coutdlted 01111 qatu,t ~ldJul Mu
. a1J.d not -.1th UJpe.Ct! to any of the othe,t 'CSe-fertdanf
--
1'3

14 n. ~ : . Yowt Bono~., 1 wont i f Jd;gbt approach

_is t1* ~h b%ie.fly .o that 1 -Cltll make a ,crcain .tu>it\t to the
16 Cou.rtl
. ;l'Z

rs_ lf;i.tne'

,4.
'& .
19 . - MR:. lCAMAUli t, yow:: :Honor.
20 > m cotmrt Yq n11.
. ,,,,;
,..,.
2~ _(wlW;eupotl all QOWlft.l appxoaoh tht b.lt.loh atu!
~2 the: f~ll.owing-. proCMdh1g1 occux at :the bench. out1l4- of the. '

2a _hear~ of tt. j~y.t)

. ~ .
2ii: Jll.. ~ : . to~
.
llono11, rq- :a>t:lon,,. 7.(nu: Honor, ts
.

2a tnat: tbt. l)i.atrtot Atto'fflfly - - il'll -ieot.ion.

2/i , _. ,If ~ 1ect 'f;o put thi1 m,att'1" -co~mtng &i::r

CieloDrive.com
 .
. 1
..
:W- .oll, t * for. a .rd.,trial-. oec-.u of tbe fc1: ti.~
.

- 2 .

.3, ,'
~

.
adalllQp.tihant eo the. ju,:7 ia ludf!oiat.- : .

. .
5 Di1trt At.tor-.:, 11.eg btt'IM!l.lt tbeN pa1:1a,, even tb.ougli
6 , Jo Jlonor. ..,.. ~be aiaonilulien~, i't ,roold. be inatft.ctiv
1 . 4 it 1 Mltf.a1 ,c,f . ~ax t,:t:al, . fa1:r ,-atty btial.
& . ~dar tht di-. p~~ce of lottr:Uxith ~ n t , -cl -t
g -.d 'oa1c1 of qua-l. pi:o"ction widei:r ti* Jourtnih AM'n~~
10 nt. od.
a1ao' dental .of u pxo\18,c ._.. tlul C.1U~tni
11 1> to:r yaut Koiio,: to a11oW.. into ev,.,__ a)'thinl col\Oeltl.l.
~11! . :t.q ~t, 1lege.d ~c1
.
..-1.u,t Mr-
B:lnun~
.
la t nfe,: you._ tQ c...a- 11.b Stiu v. lftW to,:k
. Appellte
t4 . ,ma%~ the . . l)>.1Jrt -itt41~ca
. .. . lt b .i:tair&ly
t~t .
. 1s ~tt~ tbat the ju-q o.nnot look tlttougl\. Atl.4 t tbf..n'k
- i6 - t~ eta ,o.
prej'u41c.1a1 'b4Ja:tng oout Bimtan,. t:nat -tb.t - ~
17' . -ta u, x .dmoQt. .~t; not tuffictnJ. l k f~:t
1s Jai1tr1it, ~. that tba Mtn.c.t AttomiJy )lot u,e. . it: in. thta.
. . '

.~au. '
. ....
.
.,
19 .
.
joint tt:ial.
'': . ..20

. ~l

22 ,

24 .
'

;
. , 41 ,:
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2$ .

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. . .
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..'
. .
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....
,
. . ...
I ~
.can
 6b-l .1 . MR. 'Frl?ZGERALD~ . :t will j'tiin 1n that 11otion ..

i.

3_

4
MR. KE'IfHi

&aid tor
l w1U.r too.
MR., J.ITZ:GSRALD:- I think thel"t i othing to be
Mr. X.anareka 1110~1on.
s THE COURT: .Jiow d.0!14 it dit.ter ti-om th t7p:Lol
6 Brut.on-Aran<la Pl.'Oblemt- Tn co\U't have upheld 1t when a
1 statement doe, not 1Pltcat a co-defendant.
s i don't know what t~1 w1tn is.a01ni to -lf
? Appa~tntly He ia not the one that ia .a,oins to teatify --
10 MR FI.TZG~RALD: ! I think lie ia gQ11'1g to tal1fy -- ~ is. .
Ml= t ,.
ii going to. e-etabli~h 4 -co~~-; ;t;:hat, h :knew Gar,7 .Binman in
12 lite; and then tbY a:r going 1;0; ~4t
"' ~~ -, I-.
~ii evi<leno that be 1,
l3 '
dead .
' .
14 ..
~u, I sort.
ti ~ire
:
-with I,w .. Xabark
, <1- ~ , ~
tbt ve-n
~ Ts -
~ , , 'f I ~ I t ' ._ ,
1~ th9\lgh, ttit ~-ur1 1, adlloniahed and it ia. s:o1ns to. bt .ltmitd
16 to suan Atkin, inuqh ;aa thY hav Jlradr ben
~ ~ r ; ,
"~ ' ~ F:- .. ~
convJoted
. ot conpi~aey to. ~oU1t ~Utd~, that id to a1.;
' .
~ ~
, 18 . ' .. '. .., f

that t:n,y combined an.a -con1'ede.rate(l on )tit}). another,.

1!1' . the. dJ.tendantt it;. i~ K01l'ls 1ro .b d4,t.ti-o\llt to limt th.e
-
"',. 20 ev.tdence as to on ot tht: del'ndant, > i>ecral,l.Se '1t 1 1.0
. ' '

_~i . '' ~oeely prejudic.1al,.

22. ,
l mean, :t.t 11 .auppod to IJe pre~udiclal u
2& :' tO S~1$an Atkin, bu.t th&. -ltOJSJJ prel\ldioe Of lt. can "t: help

.
--
-24, . but ap1U ove-:i_. onio the Qthr detendallta
 21,900
.. f

~ .,. .. ., ~ ~ i.
~ . ' t : ,~

-.,. St'uton ~tatt:ment wJ,.1o.h ..so to confe,sions o:r:- admi~a1ona.

~l'
'.
):

, . .
. 2 . i.t,r, tJ;J&y ~- 111,s1~s that to purporteelli'
~bey $0:lni
' ' . 3 P~OVe UP beyond a ~--O~&b1t doubt.Im actual ho-oide,
4 . It 1& p,re~ud1c1al, your lionor.
.5 .. !l'HE QOURT: Tnat 1 not wbat 14r. ijugJ.1oa1 aa.1~,
. -6 l underatood bim to 1 that ll waa gqing to put o-n-
1 ' Roni Hottard. to ttatit7 to S.UI~ AtJd,nl' t1tatme.nt,.
? 1m. SUQX.IOSI: 'JJllat 1 corr.-ot.
Mlt. '-J~.ZQERALD
.. r Thtt
-
f.l'if. . gotns.
. to put on. a OQ~pua
10 . rr;,r 11)\lrcSr.,
t
-a dead. bod.1, an!i then thq art

aoms to' put en
1~ her eg~t1-on., and tbtaia th,. first ~tn to tabliah
the .cp:r.pu,.. 'l'hit 11 the t;l.r,t w1tne to tbl1ab somebbdJ
~ ~

13' once al:Lve 1, now '1.tea4, an4, then theJ. are 10.i~ to put_ in
i4 nr.oontion.
15. . ~HE: COUR'r t Wba.t. abou~ th. aigwaent that. lleoauae
. . ~h,
. .
i1
.
. .
'
18
< MR .. BUGX,IOSI: w.e dont lm~n,. but pro'babl.J .J11tl1' 2Sth,
19 J:ul1 26th-; soaewnr 'ar.Q_un~ thet'C!.
THE OOURf, .1~69t ,. '

2! ' ' r-m. J3UG~IOSt: . tea.,

22 . ; MR... .KAI r 81gbt ..
. 23
TD -OOUR'l'i Wll,. uou aee1 'tha.t rd,aes an n~ii-elJ'

- w bad
r . ~

~~ .ditt~~ent question than th ijl'Utbn-~anda probleDll.

-: ' .
. ,'
in th,, iu1lt pha1, be tore anything h&d 'b.een proved: ~ga.inat
 21,901.

Jur1 baa -convicted thes c:te-fen4anta ot con1pirao1, a

l
.,conP1racy. wh1oh they could have found conm1:41nced. be,:tore
,2
luly 25th and continutd right th~ougb tha~ ~riod until
3

4
...att;9 th L$ B1~ca murders.,
,5 so. rou h._v, an entirlY dittre11t a11;:uat.1on.

6
MR. KEI111H: . Part1cu.J.ar,l1 when th evidenoe 1, ao
vollUllino"a- to 1bow .the voryt1gl;lt~knit a11ot1ation or
th- a,tendant.,.
9
1'~ COURT; ijot only that, but th p:roJ1m1 t7 ot the

10 locatio~- 1.C9pe,ng4 Canyon 1 tu.at a llll.tter ()t e. rele.ttveiy .

11 . ttw Jllila t~o- the Spahn Ranch and trom the 'rat reaidarto.
12 MR. ~UGtXO$It Your Honor, our poition, ~t courae, la

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-that it 1 entirely ~<1m11aibl oni1 ~&ainav her., 1>\lt X
think ~h1, 1 a ae-r1ous eno9&ll iai'-l that slloul,d perhap
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16 _T:aE COURT: I agree.- I tb1nk it i a. very ser1oua
17 .situaticn.
N:R.. ~UO~IOS:t t t don't think we ,can 2:'eolve i't her
at th$ bench.
-~ 19

io. 'rHE oouarr: lt 11 11,ye minutea to 12 ;-OD. W w1:p, r.o.a

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-~t thia time, and l will set counsel ln -oha=bera at l :-45

22 an.d we Will continue the diacu1s~an.
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~8- . MR. aUGLl0$X; All

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(Wberupon, a11oo@l..;re1;urned to the$Zf, '

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'25 reapect~'V'e ple..ca at count.l tablf" ,and t~ toilowipg, -.

pttooeedinga OCCU1' tn Op~n court t<1t~~n- -tlie p~..-enoe- ind ~ -.
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ai\J Op.1UiO.~ rea;aidtng t'be ppaltJ-.. -un,tll tha't :f..la'l..e ia

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