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Wen Wang Gua Rules
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Thread: Wen Wang Gua Rules
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1. February 2nd, 2013, 07:20 PM#1

forty two

Join Date
Sep 2012
Location
Germany
Posts
124
Wen Wang Gua Rules

Hi all,
as some of you already know I`m dealing with an ancient and well guarded
divination technique called Wen Wang Gua since while.

I will write an explanation thread about this theme, when I will find the time for it,
so that you all can follow the topic soon. But for the moment I am most interested
into a few but very important questions concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua so
this thread is for those who knows already the rules or at least parts of it and could
help to find out all original rules.

There seem to be differences concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua. Jack Chiu
(author: The Secret Of Wen Wang Gua) often use the phrase "it is said that..", "some
Wen Wang Gua practioners think...", "it is written..." and so on. Alex Chiu
(superiching.com) also uses a lot of rules and it is not for sure that they are all
original. Some shall be invented from himself and so I will try to find out here (by
time) all original rules of Wen Wang Gua and I start giving my input with the rules
which are sure for me.

1. Bound and Strike called by Alex Chiu is existing (of course) and it is called
conjunction and opposition at the book of Jack Chiu.
2. "The Day Branch is the Master of the six lines" is written at "The Gold Yarrows"
the ancient rule book of Wen Wang Gua and Alex Chiu says the same. Jack Chiu used
this quote at his book so we can assume this is also correct.

3. Element Combinations (Water, Fire, Earth, Wood combinations) also exist. Alex
Chiu called them Element Combos and Jack Chiu calls them Trine.

4. Struck loose called by Alex Chiu is also original. Jack Chiu calls it the aggressive
inactive caused by opposition if a quiet line is struck by the date and "be shackled" if
an active line is canceled out by conjunction with the day branch.

5. "An inactive line will become somewhat active when it is in conjunction with the
day branch" is written at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chui says the same so we also
can feel secure in this point.

6. Advance and Retreat: Is described at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chiu also talked a
lot about it. Jack Chui said that Advancing means double force/strength and
Retreating means only half force/strength. This is very important and that is why I
mention here.

7. The concept of empty dates is also real and makes sense if one thinks about that
there are only 10 heavenly stems but 12 earthly branches. Alex Chiu calls them
empty dates and the line with the empty element is called empty. Jack Chiu calls it
neutralized line.

8. "Kills back at itself" called by Alex Chiu is also original and Jack Chiu calls it
"Returning Devitalization". But this is only possible at an active (moving) line. I
guess this was not entirely clear at the material of Alex Chiu at least I first
understood after I read the book of Jack Chiu.

9. "Double Appointed" by Alex Chiu is not described at the book of Jack Chiu but the
words about it from Alex Chiu makes sense for me. So: If someone knows definitely,
please help.

10. "Six Strike and Six Match" by Alex Chiu is also not described at the book of Jack
Chiu but it seems to be original because Long Yi used "Six Conflict" as the name for a
certain hexagram so I suppose this is also original.

11. "Links" called by Alex Chiu are also not mentioned at the book of Jack Chiu and
so this is a huge puzzle for me still. I don`t understand this link philosophy, but
maybe I am just to stupid,lol. I will go on reading and hopefully understand soon.
 12. Relationship among the Five Relatives called by Jack Chiu and called 5 Stars by
Alex Chiu is the same and described as the same by both authors.

13. 6 Celestial Figures called by Jack Chiu is completely missing at the material of
Alex Chiu but it is part of original Wen Wang Gua. At the book of Jack Chiu you will
find a table where you can find out how to mount the Six Celestial Figures to the
lines. They gives you additional insights.

14. Rules concerning the hidden element: Seems to be identic too at the material of
Alex Chiu and Jack Chiu but I have to prove this entirely.

15. "Traps" by Alex Chiu I first have to prove this before saying something about it.

16. "Gua strikes back" by Alex Chiu. I haven`t read this chapter until now, but Jack
Chiu doesn`t meantion it.

This is not the complete list, but a beginning. I first wrote down the basic rules.
There are a lot of certain rules for certain scenarios in addition so this here is just a
trial to begin the topic here, at least.

I will edit (and complete) this from time to time and I will also post the original
chinese names for all, but not today. I`m pretty busy with moving into another flat
and so you have to be patiently with me at the moment.

This is just for starting the discussion and the exchange of knowledge and
experiances.

Best wishes Yvonne

The Black Keys - Lonely Boy
There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things
which are beyond the power of our will.
Epictetus
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14th, 2015)
3. February 6th, 2013, 01:31 PM#2
peterg
Senior Member
Join Date
Nov 2009
Posts
349
 I think the relatives are normally called the 6 relatives, one per line.

Alex Chiu doesnt mention the celestial figures or heavenly creatures but they are
included as ' The 6 colours ' ( page 405 the book ) green red yellow grey white
black.They are always spread across the lines in that sequence.If the heavenly stem
of the day is wood the first line is green.If the day stem is fire the first line is red, and
so on as described in the book.They are not overly important, just complementary
indicators.
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forty two (February 7th, 2013)

5. February 7th, 2013, 08:12 PM#3

forty two

Join Date
Sep 2012
Location
Germany
Posts
124

@All: I am confused because I can`t edit my starting post. At some of my posts there
is a edit button and at some not Is it a bug? Or is it just allowed to edit posts only
one time or so? I will try to help myself by just writing a completely new post.
Maybe some Moderators can help?

@peterg: Thanks again for your input. Please check out my update. I have added
your post to it and started to write details.

Best wishes Yvonne

The Black Keys - Lonely Boy
There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things
which are beyond the power of our will.
Epictetus
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6. February 7th, 2013, 09:03 PM#4

pocossin
 Join Date
Feb 1970
Location
Wyse Fork, NC
Posts
4,532

Originally Posted by forty two

@All: I am confused because I can`t edit my starting post. At some of my posts there is a edit
button and at some not Is it a bug? Or is it just allowed to edit posts only one time or so? I
will try to help myself by just writing a completely new post. Maybe some Moderators can
help?
I think there is a time limlt on editing posts. Couldn't you add corrections and
additions to the thread in a new post?
connotation
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forty two (February 7th, 2013)

8. February 7th, 2013, 09:07 PM#5

forty two

Join Date
Sep 2012
Location
Germany
Posts
124

Update of the starting post

Hi all,
as some of you already know I`m dealing with an ancient and well guarded
divination technique called Wen Wang Gua falso known as Liu Yao Yi Gua m;f, Na
Jia and as Six Line method or method of Six Lines in english since a while.

I will write an explanation thread about this theme, when I will find the time for it,
so that you all can follow the topic soon. But for the moment I am most interested
into a few but very important questions concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua so
this thread is for those who knows already the rules or at least parts of it and could
help to find out all original rules.
There seem to be differences concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua. Jack Chiu
(author: The Secret Of Wen Wang Gua) often use the phrase "it is said that..", "some
Wen Wang Gua practioners think...", "it is written..." and so on. Alex Chiu
(superiching.com) also uses a lot of rules and it is not for sure that they are all
original. Some shall be invented from himself and so I will try to find out here (by
time) all original rules of Wen Wang Gua and I start giving my input with the rules
which are sure for me.

1.Bound and Strike called by Alex Chiu is existing (of course) and it is
called Conjunction and Opposition at the book of Jack Chiu.
Update
1a.Active/Inactive Line
Yvonne:
First of all one has to look at the hexagram for active and/or inactive lines. The rules
for active and inactive lines are different and complicated. Quiet Lines/Inactive
Lines can become active/ Aggressive Inactive under certain circumstances and
Moving Lines/Active Lines can become useless/inactive under certain
circumstances. Often (as long as the Line is healthy and/or strong) it is only a
temporary condition and can be changed again under further circumstances, this
makes Wen Wang Gua a bit complicated and very complex. Further below I started
to collect this certain circumstances.

2."The Day Branch is the Master of the six lines" is written at "The Gold Yarrows"
the ancient rule book of Wen Wang Gua and Alex Chiu says the same. Jack Chiu used
this quote at his book so we can assume this is also correct.
Update
Yvonne:
This means that the Day Branch is more important than the Month Branch. For
example: Only the Day Branch can cause a quiet line to become an Active Line
(Aggressiv Inactive) by striking. The Month Branch can`t do this (Alex Chiu).

3.Element Combinations (Water, Fire, Earth, Wood combinations) also exist. Alex
Chiu called them Element Combos and Jack Chiu calls them Trine. (To be continued
later)

4.Struck loose called by Alex Chiu is also original. Jack Chiu calls it the Aggressive
Inactive caused by opposition if a quiet line is struck by the date.
Update
Alex Chiu:
4a: Struck: A quiet line becomes active when it is struck by the day branch.
4b: Loose: An active/moving line becomes a loose line when is struck by the Day
Branch, it becomes useless because of the strike of the Day Branch.
Jack Chiu (literally):
4a: If an inactive line is however being opposite of the Day Branch, it becomes an
Aggressive Inactive and will have the ability to impose vitalization and
devitalization to the other lines. Since it is caused by Opposition, the Aggressive
Inactive will not have any ability of Opposition and Conjunction.
4b: If an Active Line is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, it will lose it`s ability to
vitalize and devitalize.

5.Quiet/Inactive Line: "An Inactive Line will become somewhat active when it is in
conjunction with the day branch" is written at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chui says
the same so we also can feel secure in this point.
Update
Alex Chiu (literally):
5a: When the date bounds to a quiet line, the quiet line will become active when a
future year, month or date strikes the bondage open.

Jack Chiu (literally):

5a: The Inactive Line will become Aggressive Inactive when it is being the Opposite
of the Day Branch, or if conjunct (bound) by the Day Branch. I will then have ability
to impose the effects of Vitalization and Devitalization onto the other lines.

6. Advance and Retreat:

Update
Alex Chiu:
6a: Alex Chiu explained it but I can`t write down all this so please read the
explanation of Jack Chiu.
Jack Chiu (literally):
6a: Progression (Advance): People may have different interpretations about
Progression, but generally it refers to when an Active Line changes into its next
Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property. For example From Yin to Mao, Chen
to Wei ..(and so on.)

Others believe that Progression only relates to those of the properties of Earth,
Wood and Metal. As such, there is no Progression from Chen to Wei, Si to Wu, Xu to
Chou and Hai to Zi. This is due to the reason that they are in different sides of the
Taj-ji Yin-Yang Diagram.

Progression is having the effect which is being doubled in strength. It is again not
exactly a quantitative measure.

6b: Regression (Retreat): It is similar to Progression but just it goes reverse

direction. When an Active Line changes into it`s previous Earthly Branch of the same
Wu-xing property, it is called Regression. For example, from Mao to Yin, Chou to
Xu.... (and so on).

Again, of the same token as in Progression, other people believe Regression is also
related to those of the properties of Earth, Wood, and Metal only.

Regression is having the effect which is being reduced in half strength. Again, it is
not exactly a quantitativ measure.

Yvonne: You see there is still much to talk about. That`s why I openend up the
thread, maybe all this unclear or not sure points can be cleared by time.

7.The concept of empty dates is also original and makes sense if one thinks about
that there are only 10 heavenly stems but 12 earthly branches. Alex Chiu calls them
empty dates and the line with the empty element is called empty. Jack Chiu calls
it neutralized line. (To be continued later)

8. "Kills back at itself" and Produce back at itself called by Alex Chiu is also
original and Jack Chiu calls Kill back at itself: "Returning Devitalization". But this
is only possible at an active (moving) line.
Update
Alex Chiu:
8a: He explained it with helper star and enemy star. So we are talking about the
5 Stars (5 Relatives). If an active line is changing into his enemy star for example
Brother/Sibling (B Star) changes into Officer (R Star) then the changed line Officer
(R Star) can kill/devitalize the originating line Brother/Sibling (B Star). This is
called: Killed back at itself.

8b: Produce back at itself is the same but with the helper star. For example: If
an active Officer (R Star) is turning into Asset (G Star) the Asset can produce back
the Officer line.

Jack Chiu (literally):

8a: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other
Lines when it is being devitalized by its Changed Line. It is known as Returning
Devitalization (kills back at itself according Alex Chiu).

The remedy is either (1) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by the Day
Branch, (2) the Changed Line is being devitalized by the Day Branch, or (3) the
Originating Active Line is being vitalized by its invisible Line if there is any.
8b: The Changed Line will have the ability to impose all of the four effects,
Vitalization, Devitalization, Opposition, and Conjunction onto its Originating Active
Line or Dong-Yao.

Yvonne: This is the same what Alex Chiu means with kill back at itself and
produce back just in other words.

Jack Chiu has some details about Returning Opposition for us:
Jack Chiu (literally)
Returning Opposition: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose
effects onto any other Lines when it is being Opposite of it`s own Changed Line. It is
known as Returning Opposition or Hui-Tou-Chong. The Originating Active Line can
only restore its effects when it is being conjunct with the Day Branch. The effects of
the Day Branch is considered as external to the hexagram.

9.Double Appointed by Alex Chiu is not described at the book of Jack Chiu but the
words about it from Alex Chiu makes sense for me. So: If someone knows definitely,
please help. (To be continued later)

10.Six Strike and Six Match by Alex Chiu is also not described at the book of Jack
Chiu but it seems to be original because Long Yi used "Six Conflict" as the name for a
certain hexagram so I suppose this is also original. (To be continued later)

11. Links called by Alex Chiu are also not mentioned at the book of Jack Chiu and so
this is a huge puzzle for me still. I don`t understand this link philosophy, but maybe I
am just to stupid,lol. I will go on reading and hopefully understand soon. (To be
continued if I will have understood it ;-))

12.Five Relatives called by Jack Chiu and called 5 Stars by Alex Chiu is the same
and described as the same by both authors.
Update
Alex Chiu:
1. P Star
2. B Star
3. K Star
4. G Star
5. R Star

Jack Chiu:
1. Parent
2. Sibling
3. Child
4. Asset
6. Officer

Other:
1. Parent
2. Brother
3. Children/Descendant
4. Woman/Wealth
5. Officer/Ghost

Details:
Peterg said:
Originally Posted by peterg
I think the relatives are normally called the 6 relatives, one per line.
Yvonne: Actually Jack Chiu also called them 6 Relatives (not 5 Relatives) and he
explained the sixth relative would be ourselve if we include it.

Jack Chiu (literally): Six Relatives is in fact to humanize the interactions among
Wu-xing (5 Elements). They are namely the Parent (P) or Fu-Mu, the Sibling (S) or
Xiong-Di, the Child (C) or Zi-Sun, the Asset (A) or Qi-Cai, and the Officer (O) or Guan-
Gui. There are only five of them, but it would become six if we include ourselves.

(to be continued later)

13. Six Celestial Figures called by Jack Chiu is completely missing at the material
(see update) of Alex Chiu but it is part of original Wen Wang Gua. At the book of Jack
Chiu you will find a table where you can find out how to mount the Six Celestial
Figures to the lines. They gives you additional insights.

Update
Peterg helps us out with telling us about the six colours on the website of Alex Chiu
it is:
Originally Posted by peterg
Alex Chiu doesnt mention the celestial figures or heavenly creatures but they are included as '
The 6 colours ' ( page 405 the book ) green red yellow grey white black.They are always
spread across the lines in that sequence.If the heavenly stem of the day is wood the first line is
green.If the day stem is fire the first line is red, and so on as described in the book.They are not
overly important, just complementary indicators.
Jack Chiu:
1. Azure Dragon
2. Vermillion Bird
3. Curved Array
4. Flying Serpent
5. White Tiger
6. Murky Warrior

(To be continued later)

14. Hidden Element/Hiders/Invisible: Seems to be identic at the material of Alex

Chiu and Jack Chiu but I have to prove this entirely. (To be continued later)

15. Traps by Alex Chiu. I first have to prove this before saying something about it.
Update
I proved this in the meantime and I only found this rule at the material of Alex Chiu
and it says:
Alex Chiu (literally):
e (Si) and y (Yin) form a trap.
For example: The self line P e (Parent Si) moves into R y (Officer Yin) which
produces back at itself. So the self line formed a trap.

Trapping means they hurt each other. The element e (Si) and y (Yin) trapping each
other is like man and wife fighting. If the appointed is weak and is also trapped, the
appointed is in total trouble. For more than 20 years of I Ching experiance, Wild
Crane can only bring up one or two signs which can serve as examples concerning
trapping.

Yvonne: I guess that means, that it happen very seldom and so this is probably not
one of the most important rules but good to know.

16.Gua strikes back by Alex Chiu. I haven`t read this chapter until now, but Jack
Chiu doesn`t meantion it. (To be continued later)

17. Subject and Object Line (Jack Chiu), S (Self) and U (Opponent) Line (Alex
Chiu).
(To be continued later)

Update
Attention: This post will be long time work in progress, because it is a huge
challenge to find, write down and compare all possible Wen Wang Gua rules to each
other. I will edit this from time to time. I will add content, change content (if wrong
or not complete or if I found a better explanation), I will try to add the most
important Chinese terms in Pinyin and Chinese too by time and I need help for this
project.
 I hope that everybody who knows better or more or certain details will join to help
to complete this list one sunny day. When it will be finished (hopefully), it will be a
great help for each Wen Wang Gua student and so it makes a lot of sense to start the
project at least.

So: This is wip and it is just for starting the discussion and the exchange of
knowledge and experiances. Please join if you know something which is needed
here.

Best wishes Yvonne

The Black Keys - Lonely Boy
There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things
which are beyond the power of our will.
Epictetus
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10. February 7th, 2013, 09:10 PM#6

forty two

Join Date
Sep 2012
Location
Germany
Posts
124

@pocossin: Many thanks for the help. Yes I just wrote a new post. Maybe this is
anyway better because the readers can see when I have done an update. So:
Problem solved
The Black Keys - Lonely Boy
There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things
which are beyond the power of our will.
Epictetus
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11. The Following User Says Thank You to forty two For This Useful Post:

pocossin (February 7th, 2013)

12. January 31st, 2014, 05:01 PM#7
forty two

Join Date
Sep 2012
Location
Germany
Posts
124

Hi all,
long time no see. It is because I was horribly busy with learning this damned
complicated, extensive and complex Wen Wang Gua technique. This is a fulltime
job.

I made a decision and it is: I will stop this rules thread project here because there is
simply no use. Once this was a pretty "nice" idea and a sign of my god will, but after
watching the whole thing I see: There is no use to try to put all this knowledge into
just one single post or thread at a forum.

It is simply way too extensive for this nice little plan. In the meantime I was working
hard in studying the whole material of Alex Chiu and Jack Chiu and so far it is done
and I could put Wen Wang Gua into practise in the meantime. Almost each day I
analyse 1 until 3 hexagrams and this means that I could add own experiances to the
material of the both Chiu`s.

The problem is: It is impossible to write down all the rules down in one list. For to
give you an idea how WWG works there have to be done much more. Chapters have
to be created, a new way for to write down the rules in a transparency way has to be
created, explanations have to be written, graphics need to be created and and and. It
is not done with just write down the rules. There are exceptions from the rules,
special cases, connections which are absolutely not easy to explain or even to make
them visible and understandable.

In short: My plan is to write an own explanation about how Wen Wang Gua works.
This will be the next fulltime job and so I will draw back from forums for to work
out this idea and that will take a very long time. Because there is no use to put all
this extensive knowledge into a post *lol*, sorry for trying that, I was unknown, my
new plan is either a blog or homepage. When it is done I will post a link to my
project here at the forum but don`t expect this to be soon. I will need probably years
for this project.

Maybe I can make it public when it is half finished at least but I don`t know.
Because you all don`t wish to wait years for additional WWG material I just can
repeat myself and tell you:
Combine the knowledge from the Alex Chiu site with the book of Jack Chiu.
This is the way I have learnt it and my daily practise proves that it works.

By studying the whole material of Alex Chiu you can learn how WWG works in
practise and by studying the book from Jack Chiu you learn all about the
metaphysical backgrounds and you learn all this what Alex Chiu hasn`t taught. Jack
Chiu only gives you a handful of rules and it is not possible to practise WWG
seriously with just this handful of rules and so it is absolutely necessary to study the
whole material of Alex Chiu too.

When I say the whole material then I mean the whole material. The problem of the
the teaching method by Alex Chiu is: Up from the beginning, up from the very first
example he uses all possible rules and that is absolutely confusing for everybody
who starts to learn this because he simply doesn`t understand a word. First when
you have read the whole material, the whole 1000 pages of his book/Website, first
then you will understand something because then you have learnt all the rules.
Then you can read the 1000 pages again and you will be able to understand simply
each example.

Each chapter of the material of Alex Chiu contains some very important
information you absolutely need for to understand anything at all. If you just miss
one single chapter then you miss something very important which is absolutely
necessary for understand the whole thing. All is connected to each other in
WWG. If you only read 80% of the material you are unknown, you can`t put it in
practise. You need to read all, all, all. You need to read it more than one times you
need to read all at least 3 times and you have to make notes for to be able to
remind the stuff.

You have to practise and you will start to understand more and more by time. You
make own experiances and you can add them to the knowledge from Alex and Jack
Chiu.

Before I leave for a longer time I have to give you one very important information.

When you start to work with the material of Alex Chiu you can use his hexagram
charts. But you can only use the hexagrams from the hexagram charts for the
originating (the 1st hexagram) hexagram.

If there are changing lines at the hexagrams so that you have got 2 hexagrams then
you have to change the Relatives at the changed hexagram.
For example your oracle is:

60.4 > 58.

Then you cannot simply take hexagram 60. from the hexagram charts and
putting hexagram 58. from the hexagram charts right next to it. Do it NOT this
way!!! This way it is wrong!!!

60. ----------------58.
Zi/t Sibling/B > Wei/wa Parent/P
Xu/sh Officer/ R >You/yo Sibling/B
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) > Hai/h Children/K
Chou/c Officer/R > Chou/c Parent/P
Mao/m Children/K >Mao/m Asset/G
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) > Si/e Officer/R

The right way to note the 2nd, the changed hexagram, down is to change the
Relatives at the changed hexagram according the chamber of the originating
hexagram. It is too complicated to explain you here the whole thing, but you can
read this at the book of Jack Chiu at page 124. He also teaches the whole setting
and it is recommandable to learn this for to fully understand the mechanics behind
WWG. What I try here is just to give you in very short, a very important hint how to
be able to write down the hexagrams in the right way without the need of studying
the whole material first.

The right way to note down the hexagrams goes like this:

- Write down the 1st hexagram, the originating hexagram right the way you see it at
the hexagram charts on Alex Chiu`s site.

This way:

60.
Zi/t Sibling/B >
Xu/sh Officer/ R >
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) >
Chou/c Officer/R >
Mao/m Children/K >
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) >

So far, so right.
Next step is: Look up hexagram 58. at the hexagram Charts of Alex Chiu`s site
but only write down the Earthly Branches because they are correct.

This way:

60. ----------------58.
Zi/t Sibling/B > Wei/wa
Xu/sh Officer/ R >You/yo
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) > Hai/h
Chou/c Officer/R > Chou/c
Mao/m Children/K >Mao/m
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) > Si/e

The last step is to check out at the 1st hexagram, at hexagram 60. what is
Si/Mao/Chou/Hai/You/Wei there, which Relative is Water, Fire, Earth....and so on.

At the first line we see that (Fire) Si/e is Asset/G and so you write down Asset at the
first line of the changed hexagram.

At the second line we see that (Wood) Mao/m is Children/K and so you write down
Children at the second line of the changed hexagram.

At the third line we see that (Earth) Chou/c is Officer/R and so you write down
Officer at the third line of the changed hexagram.

At the fourth line we see Hai. Hai is Water. Check out the first hexagram and look
which Relative there is Water. The Relative with the Water element is Sibling/B
because there is a Sibling Zi. Zi is also Water.
So you write down Sibling/B at the fourth line of the changed hexagram.

At the fifth line we see You. You is Metal. Check out the first hexagram and look
which Relative there is Metal. The Relative with the Metal element is Parent/P
because it is a Parent Shen. Shen is also Metal. So you write down Parent/P at the
fifth line of the changed hexagram.

At the sixth line we see Wei. Wei is Earth. Check out the first hexagram and look
which Relative there is Earth. The Relative with the Earth element is Officer/R
because Xu is also Earth. So you write down Officer at the sixth line of the changed
hexagram.

Finished it looks like that:

60. ----------------58.
Zi/t Sibling/B > Wei/wa Officer/R
Xu/sh Officer/ R >You/yo Parent/P
Shen/s Parent/P (O/U) > Hai/h Sibling/B
Chou/c Officer/R > Chou/c Officer/R
Mao/m Children/K >Mao/m Children/K
Si/e Asset/G (S/J) > Si/e Asset/G

This means, in this example, in this case:

All Officers here at the first and at the second hexagram are Earth: Wei/wa, Chou/c,
Xu/sh, Chen/cn.
All Assets here at the first and at the second hexagram are Fire: Si/e, Wu/w.
All Children here at the first and at the second hexagram are Wood: Mao/m, Yin/y.
All Parents here at the first and at the second hexagram are Metal: Shen/s, You/yo.
All Siblings here at the first and at the second hexagram are Water: Zi/t, Hai/h.

If you have got another hexagram from a different chamber you have to do it
same way, but ALWAYS you have to take the combination of the Relatives and
Earthly Branches at the 1st hexagram (the originating hexagram) as a
reference for the Relatives at the 2nd hexagram (the changed hexagram).

If you check out the examples of Alex Chiu you will see that he does it same way like
me here in this example, but I couldn`t find any explanation about this in his
material. But I only studied the website, maybe it is mentioned into his book I don`t
know.

I hope this becomes clear now. If you don`t change the Relatives at the changed
hexagram like it is described here (respectively at the book of Jack Chiu) you will
note down the hexagrams in a completely wrong way and your analysis will also be
completely wrong.

As said: I looked for this very important information at the Alex Chiu site but I
couldn`t find it. I have written an email to Alex and told him that it is a huge problem
that it seems he never mentioned this very important information. He wrote back
that he would have mentioned this information. I asked him where he has
mentioned, in which chapter. I never got an answer and I`m still looking without
success for this information at his material and I still didn`t find it.

This shows you how important it is to combine the material of Alex Chiu with
the material of Jack Chiu.
If you only study the book of Jack Chiu then you haven`t got any idea how to put this
actually in practise, because there are too few rules and too few examples of the
practical use of WWG. The whole rest you can learn from this book.

If you only study the material of Alex Chiu you can learn how to put WWG in
practise because you will learn tons of rules and you will find thousands of examples
of the practical use of WWG, but what it is worth if you don`t know that you have to
change the Relatives at the changed hexagram for example

Maybe Alex actually has written down this information, somewhere. I can`t swear. I
just can tell you that I have read all chapters again and again and I can`t remind to
find this information somewhere. If someone will discover it one sunny day please
tell us where we can find this information.

Last but not least I have to do make a correction concerning my rules above.

A struck loose line is not simply a quiet line which is struck by the daybranch. It is
not that simple. I expressed this a bit confusing at my previous post.

A struck loose line is:

- When the elements of a real moving line are struck by the daybranch. When their
elements are in opposition to the daybranch. It doesn`t matter if it is the element of
the originating line (1st hexagram) or the changed line (2nd hexagram) or both.
This line is useless. It cannot kill or produce other lines until the next opportunity of
a bondage to the daybranch. Only a bondage to a future day, month, hour, year can
make this line active, useful again.

- When the element of a quiet line is struck by the day, but only when it is
the element of the changed line (2nd hexagram) (!!!) In this case this is also a
struck loose line and the rules for the reanimation are the same like above.

Struck by the day but not struck loose is:

When the element of a quiet line is struck by the day and it is the element of the
originating line (1st hexagram) then this line is not struck loose
but active/moving. This line becomes a moving line because of the struck by the
daybranch (opposition to the daybranch).

This gives you a little idea about how complicated this whole sh.. really is

This exactly is the reason why I have to stop here and why I have to consider about
another, different way for talking about Wen Wang Gua in public. I definitely need
 much more space!!!! Apart from that I need ideas (how to express and explain
something at all) and time.

I hope that I could help you at least a little bit so far with my hints and
recommendations.

Own experiances: The rules not always work to 100%. Sometimes there are
exceptions. Also in WWG there is space for surprises, it is more "flexible" than I
supposed in the beginning. It is like a living creature and it slips through your hands
like a slippery snake *lol*. It is a long and hard way to get a kind of control about the
whole thing and the trial to put all this universal laws into rules doesn`t work all the
time to 100%. There is a space of approximately 10 - 20 % for surprises. Count with
that if you decide to learn this. Don`t get too much confused if sometimes something
doesn`t work exactly how it is described. It still works good enough for to be called
one of the greatest ways for to get an answer.

Happy new year to all and

Best wishes Yvonne

Ps: I`m still open for some questions and/or discussions about the theme (at the
threads I have started, pm or email no matter how), but I don`t do serious readings
for others by using WWG technique because I`m still learning and no one should put
his/her destiny into the hands of a beginner
Last edited by forty two; January 31st, 2014 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Correcting mistakes, as always
The Black Keys - Lonely Boy
There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things
which are beyond the power of our will.
Epictetus
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13. The Following User Says Thank You to forty two For This Useful Post:

charly (March 25th, 2014)

14. April 3rd, 2014, 07:15 AM#8
wwfjdraw

Join Date
Dec 2012
Posts
3
Your post is good.

I am Reverend Driscoll at the superiching forum. I am writing book. It is a summary

of superiching in 100 pages or less. I have completed every chapter to be
summarized except the following
 http://superiching.com/protect.htm

http://superiching.com/lawsuit.htm

http://superiching.com/love.htm

http://superiching.com/investment.htm

http://superiching.com/business.htm

The book is so far like 60 pages. I will share them with you for free. No charge. I ask
that you share your notes, and help me complete the last chapters of my book, I will
credit you in my book, and dedicate it entirely to you and another member of the
iching forum. All of my questions are in the forum, and all the answers.
Alex is never going to answer your questions, he is stubborn, this is very Chinese,
and is not surprising.
Go here
http://idu.yuku.com/forums/65/Super-IChing
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15. March 8th, 2015, 12:49 AM#9
sleepyfreud

Join Date
Mar 2015
Posts
1

Hi.

Thanks to forty two for the useful summary of the rules.

With regard to setting up the six relatives - Parent, Sibling, etc. PBKGR in Alex Chiu's
notation, you can use the free software in Alex Chiu's website, generously
contributed by Hao Jiang. It is found below

http://www.superiching.com/forum.htm

Alex misspells it as hexagram genetator (generator).

When you click the phrase, you get to the page. You can save the page from your
browser, and it works offline. It is, I believe, a javascript page.

Of course, as you posted, one has to get used to Alex's terminology - P for Parent, B
 for sibling (brother), K for child (kid according to Alex), G for girlfriend (wife or
wealth in traditional Chinese metaphysics), and R ( don' remember. Maybe ruler).

The six celestial figures, as Jack Chiu calls them, which peterg says are the six colors,
are indicated as well.
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16. September 7th, 2015, 09:44 AM#10
denisvog

Join Date
Nov 2014
Posts
7
Very good explanation about Wen Wang Gua

Originally Posted by forty two

Update of the starting post

Hi all,
as some of you already know I`m dealing with an ancient and well guarded divination
technique called Wen Wang Gua falso known as Liu Yao Yi Gua m;f, Na Jia and as Six Line
method or method of Six Lines in english since a while.

I will write an explanation thread about this theme, when I will find the time for it, so that you
all can follow the topic soon. But for the moment I am most interested into a few but very
important questions concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua so this thread is for those who
knows already the rules or at least parts of it and could help to find out all original rules.

There seem to be differences concerning the rules of Wen Wang Gua. Jack Chiu (author: The
Secret Of Wen Wang Gua) often use the phrase "it is said that..", "some Wen Wang Gua
practioners think...", "it is written..." and so on. Alex Chiu (superiching.com) also uses a lot of
rules and it is not for sure that they are all original. Some shall be invented from himself and
so I will try to find out here (by time) all original rules of Wen Wang Gua and I start giving my
input with the rules which are sure for me.

1.Bound and Strike called by Alex Chiu is existing (of course) and it is called Conjunction
and Oppositionat the book of Jack Chiu.
Update
1a.Active/Inactive Line
Yvonne:
First of all one has to look at the hexagram for active and/or inactive lines. The rules for
active and inactive lines are different and complicated. Quiet Lines/Inactive Lines can become
active/ Aggressive Inactive under certain circumstances and Moving Lines/Active Lines can
become useless/inactive under certain circumstances. Often (as long as the Line is healthy
and/or strong) it is only a temporary condition and can be changed again under further
circumstances, this makes Wen Wang Gua a bit complicated and very complex. Further below
I started to collect this certain circumstances.

2."The Day Branch is the Master of the six lines" is written at "The Gold Yarrows" the
ancient rule book of Wen Wang Gua and Alex Chiu says the same. Jack Chiu used this quote at
his book so we can assume this is also correct.
Update
Yvonne:
This means that the Day Branch is more important than the Month Branch. For example: Only
the Day Branch can cause a quiet line to become an Active Line (Aggressiv Inactive) by
striking. The Month Branch can`t do this (Alex Chiu).

3.Element Combinations (Water, Fire, Earth, Wood combinations) also exist. Alex Chiu
called them Element Combos and Jack Chiu calls them Trine. (To be continued later)

4.Struck loose called by Alex Chiu is also original. Jack Chiu calls it the Aggressive Inactive
caused by opposition if a quiet line is struck by the date.
Update
Alex Chiu:
4a: Struck: A quiet line becomes active when it is struck by the day branch.
4b: Loose: An active/moving line becomes a loose line when is struck by the Day Branch, it
becomes useless because of the strike of the Day Branch.
Jack Chiu (literally):
4a: If an inactive line is however being opposite of the Day Branch, it becomes an Aggressive
Inactive and will have the ability to impose vitalization and devitalization to the other lines.
Since it is caused by Opposition, the Aggressive Inactive will not have any ability of Opposition
and Conjunction.
4b: If an Active Line is being the Opposite of the Day Branch, it will lose it`s ability to vitalize
and devitalize.

5.Quiet/Inactive Line: "An Inactive Line will become somewhat active when it is in
conjunction with the day branch" is written at Jack Chiu`s book and Alex Chui says the same so
we also can feel secure in this point.
Update
Alex Chiu (literally):
5a: When the date bounds to a quiet line, the quiet line will become active when a future year,
month or date strikes the bondage open.

Jack Chiu (literally):

5a: The Inactive Line will become Aggressive Inactive when it is being the Opposite of the Day
Branch, or if conjunct (bound) by the Day Branch. I will then have ability to impose the
effects of Vitalization and Devitalization onto the other lines.

6. Advance and Retreat:

Update
Alex Chiu:
6a: Alex Chiu explained it but I can`t write down all this so please read the explanation of Jack
Chiu.
Jack Chiu (literally):
6a: Progression (Advance): People may have different interpretations about Progression, but
generally it refers to when an Active Line changes into its next Earthly Branch of the same
Wu-xing property. For example From Yin to Mao, Chen to Wei ..(and so on.)

Others believe that Progression only relates to those of the properties of Earth, Wood and
Metal. As such, there is no Progression from Chen to Wei, Si to Wu, Xu to Chou and Hai to Zi.
This is due to the reason that they are in different sides of the Taj-ji Yin-Yang Diagram.

Progression is having the effect which is being doubled in strength. It is again not exactly a
quantitative measure.

6b: Regression (Retreat): It is similar to Progression but just it goes reverse direction. When
an Active Line changes into it`s previous Earthly Branch of the same Wu-xing property, it is
called Regression. For example, from Mao to Yin, Chou to Xu.... (and so on).

Again, of the same token as in Progression, other people believe Regression is also related to
those of the properties of Earth, Wood, and Metal only.

Regression is having the effect which is being reduced in half strength. Again, it is not exactly
a quantitativ measure.

Yvonne: You see there is still much to talk about. That`s why I openend up the thread, maybe
all this unclear or not sure points can be cleared by time.

7.The concept of empty dates is also original and makes sense if one thinks about that there
are only 10 heavenly stems but 12 earthly branches. Alex Chiu calls them empty dates and the
line with the empty element is called empty. Jack Chiu calls it neutralized line. (To be
continued later)

8. "Kills back at itself" and Produce back at itself called by Alex Chiu is also original and
Jack Chiu calls Kill back at itself: "Returning Devitalization". But this is only possible at an
active (moving) line.
Update
Alex Chiu:
8a: He explained it with helper star and enemy star. So we are talking about the 5 Stars (5
Relatives). If an active line is changing into his enemy star for example Brother/Sibling (B
Star) changes into Officer (R Star) then the changed line Officer (R Star) can kill/devitalize
the originating line Brother/Sibling (B Star). This is called: Killed back at itself.

8b: Produce back at itself is the same but with the helper star. For example: If an active
Officer (R Star) is turning into Asset (G Star) the Asset can produce back the Officer line.

Jack Chiu (literally):

8a: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto any other Lines
when it is being devitalized by its Changed Line. It is known as Returning Devitalization (kills
back at itself according Alex Chiu).

The remedy is either (1) the Originating Active Line is being vitalized by the Day Branch, (2)
the Changed Line is being devitalized by the Day Branch, or (3) the Originating Active Line is
being vitalized by its invisible Line if there is any.

8b: The Changed Line will have the ability to impose all of the four effects, Vitalization,
Devitalization, Opposition, and Conjunction onto its Originating Active Line or Dong-Yao.

Yvonne: This is the same what Alex Chiu means with kill back at itself and produce back
just in other words.

Jack Chiu has some details about Returning Opposition for us:
Jack Chiu (literally)
Returning Opposition: The Originating Active Line will lose its ability to impose effects onto
any other Lines when it is being Opposite of it`s own Changed Line. It is known as Returning
Opposition or Hui-Tou-Chong. The Originating Active Line can only restore its effects when it
is being conjunct with the Day Branch. The effects of the Day Branch is considered as external
to the hexagram.

9.Double Appointed by Alex Chiu is not described at the book of Jack Chiu but the words
about it from Alex Chiu makes sense for me. So: If someone knows definitely, please help. (To
be continued later)

10.Six Strike and Six Match by Alex Chiu is also not described at the book of Jack Chiu but it
seems to be original because Long Yi used "Six Conflict" as the name for a certain hexagram
so I suppose this is also original. (To be continued later)

11. Links called by Alex Chiu are also not mentioned at the book of Jack Chiu and so this is a
huge puzzle for me still. I don`t understand this link philosophy, but maybe I am just to
stupid,lol. I will go on reading and hopefully understand soon. (To be continued if I will have
understood it ;-))

12.Five Relatives called by Jack Chiu and called 5 Stars by Alex Chiu is the same and
described as the same by both authors.
Update
Alex Chiu:
1. P Star
2. B Star
3. K Star
4. G Star
5. R Star

Jack Chiu:
1. Parent
2. Sibling
3. Child
4. Asset
6. Officer

Other:
1. Parent
2. Brother
3. Children/Descendant
4. Woman/Wealth
5. Officer/Ghost

Details:
Peterg said:

Yvonne: Actually Jack Chiu also called them 6 Relatives (not 5 Relatives) and he explained the
sixth relative would be ourselve if we include it.

Jack Chiu (literally): Six Relatives is in fact to humanize the interactions among Wu-xing (5
Elements). They are namely the Parent (P) or Fu-Mu, the Sibling (S) or Xiong-Di, the Child (C)
or Zi-Sun, the Asset (A) or Qi-Cai, and the Officer (O) or Guan-Gui. There are only five of them,
but it would become six if we include ourselves.

(to be continued later)

13. Six Celestial Figures called by Jack Chiu is completely missing at the material (see
update) of Alex Chiu but it is part of original Wen Wang Gua. At the book of Jack Chiu you will
find a table where you can find out how to mount the Six Celestial Figures to the lines. They
gives you additional insights.

Update
Peterg helps us out with telling us about the six colours on the website of Alex Chiu it is:

Jack Chiu:
1. Azure Dragon
2. Vermillion Bird
3. Curved Array
4. Flying Serpent
5. White Tiger
6. Murky Warrior

(To be continued later)

14. Hidden Element/Hiders/Invisible: Seems to be identic at the material of Alex Chiu and
Jack Chiu but I have to prove this entirely. (To be continued later)
15. Traps by Alex Chiu. I first have to prove this before saying something about it.
Update
I proved this in the meantime and I only found this rule at the material of Alex Chiu and it
says:
Alex Chiu (literally):
e (Si) and y (Yin) form a trap.
For example: The self line P e (Parent Si) moves into R y (Officer Yin) which produces back at
itself. So the self line formed a trap.

Trapping means they hurt each other. The element e (Si) and y (Yin) trapping each other is
like man and wife fighting. If the appointed is weak and is also trapped, the appointed is in
total trouble. For more than 20 years of I Ching experiance, Wild Crane can only bring up
one or two signs which can serve as examples concerning trapping.

Yvonne: I guess that means, that it happen very seldom and so this is probably not one of the
most important rules but good to know.

16.Gua strikes back by Alex Chiu. I haven`t read this chapter until now, but Jack Chiu doesn`t
meantion it. (To be continued later)

17. Subject and Object Line (Jack Chiu), S (Self) and U (Opponent) Line (Alex Chiu).
(To be continued later)

Update
Attention: This post will be long time work in progress, because it is a huge challenge to find,
write down and compare all possible Wen Wang Gua rules to each other. I will edit this from
time to time. I will add content, change content (if wrong or not complete or if I found a better
explanation), I will try to add the most important Chinese terms in Pinyin and Chinese too by
time and I need help for this project.

I hope that everybody who knows better or more or certain details will join to help to
complete this list one sunny day. When it will be finished (hopefully), it will be a great help for
each Wen Wang Gua student and so it makes a lot of sense to start the project at least.

So: This is wip and it is just for starting the discussion and the exchange of knowledge and
experiances. Please join if you know something which is needed here.

Best wishes Yvonne

Very good explanation about Wen Wang Gua ... and its laws as revailed by Alex Chiu
's website !!!
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