Issue 41

Mar 2008
From Death To Life

Details of
Conference
2009
on back cov
er

Bible Teaching • Life • Death • Resurrection • Eternal Destinies

 The Cup of Wrath
In the Garden of Gethsemane
Jesus prayed ―May this cup be
taken from me‖ (Mat. 26:39,
Luke Mark 14:36, Luke 22:42).
So too, when Jesus com-
manded Peter to put away his
sword, he asked, ―Shall I not
drink the cup the Father has
given me?‖ (John 18:11). The
cup Jesus talked about was the
cup of God‘s wrath.
―In the hand of the LORD is a
cup full of foaming wine mixed
with spices; he pours it out and
all the wicked of the earth drink
it down to its very dregs.‖ (Psa.
75:8).
―This is what the LORD, the
God of Israel, said to me, ‗Take from my hand this cup of the wine of my
wrath and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it.‘‖ (Jer.
25:15).
The cup of wrath then symbolises the judgment of God. What ever tor-
ment might be involved for the wicked (Rev. 14:9-10) the end result is
―they will drink and drink and be as if they had never been‖ (Obad. 16).
At times, in days gone by God had his people drink from that cup, but
never to the dregs. He always took the cup back leaving the wrath of
God unfinished. "This is what your Sovereign LORD says, your God, who
defends his people: ‗See, I have taken out of your hand the cup that
made you stagger; from that cup, the goblet of my wrath, you will never
drink again‘‖ (Isa. 51:22).
It was this cup that we would have been required to drink as a result of
our sin, but Jesus drank it for us. Down to the very dregs. Now we are
free to drink instead from the cup of blessing.
What a wonderful Saviour is Jesus my Lord!
David Burge.
From Death To Life

Conditional Immortality Association Issue 41

Contents
The Cup of Wrath p. 2
David Burge
Editorial: Why Did Christ Have to Die? p. 4
David Burge
This is My Story p. 6
Bill McCraken
Resurrection Revealed (Part 9) p. 11
Beryl Ching
Easter, Africa and Immortality p. 16
Beryl Ching
Q and A p. 18
John Roller
On The Buses p. 20
David Burge
Conference 2009 p. 24

From Death To Life

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 From Death To Life
Editorial: Why Did Jesus Have To Die?
Even secular magazines such as
Time (April 12, 2004) are drawn
from time to time to ask the ques-
tion, ―Why Did Jesus Have to Die?‖
Christians all believe that some-
thing stupendous happened when
Jesus died on the cross. We speak
of the atonement
by which we were
made ―at one‖ with
God. Somehow, the
death of Jesus on
the cross was what
made it possible for
God to forgive all
the sins of human-
kind. Christians
have long struggled
to explain how this
can be. Within the
pages of the Bible
we see a number of
pictures that will help us under-
stand why Jesus had to die.
Jesus Died To Pay A Ransom
Jesus‘ death was like a ransom
paid to free us from slavery to sin,
Satan and death. Jesus himself
said, ―For even the Son of Man did
not come to be served, but to
serve, and to give his life as a ran-
som for many." (Mark 10:45). We
push the image too far when we
ask, to whom was the ransom
Page 4
paid? Surely, Satan did not have
God over a barrel. Surely, God was
not forced to ―pay up or else‖. But
just as surely Jesus liberated hu-
manity from slavery to sin, Satan
and death by giving his own life as a
ransom.
Jesus Died To
Satisfy God’s
Justice
Christians realise that
humanity owes a debt
not to Satan, but to
God himself. Romans
6:23 tells us that ―the
wages of sin is death‖.
The fact that we have
all broken God‘s law
means we are all
rightly subject to God‘s
wrath. Jesus died on
the cross in the sinner's place, bear-
ing the curse due to lawbreakers on
our behalf (Gal. 3:13). In essence,
Jesus died that we might be de-
clared right (or be justified) before
the Judge (Rom. 4:23-25).
Jesus Died As Our Sacrifice
Drawing from the riches of the im-
agery of Old Testament temple sac-
rifice, Hebrews tells us ―He did not
enter by means of the blood of
goats and calves; but he entered
 Issue 41 Page 5

the Most Holy Place way exhausts the Christ has already
once for all by his own meaning of Christ‘s loved us.
blood, thus obtaining death on the cross for
Our Response?
eternal redemp- us, Jesus died to leave
us an example. Peter As a Conditionalist I
tion.‖ (Heb. 9:22). Here
says ―To this you were can‘t help noticing that
we see Jesus as both
called, because Christ it was Jesus‘ death not
our high priest and our
suffered for you, leav- his torture that paid
sacrifice for sin.
our ransom. He died
Jesus Died To to satisfy God‘s jus-
Win A Great tice. Jesus died as
Victory our sacrifice. He died
The idea of Christ to win a great victory
as Victor is closely for us. Even when
related to the idea Peter mentions his
of Christ as a ran- suffering the empha-
som. On the cross sis is on the fact that
our Lord Jesus his suffering climaxed
won a spiritual in his death on the
battle against the cross for our sins
powers of dark- (1Pet. 2:24) - it cer-
ness. Colossians tainly was not an
2:13-15 tells us, eternity of suffering,
[Christ] ―disarmed as some suggest is
the powers and the penalty for sin.
authorities, he made a ing you an example, This year, as we ap-
public spectacle of that you should follow proach Easter, I will be
them, triumphing over in his steps" (1Pet. particularly mindful of
them by the cross.‖ By 2:21). all that Jesus achieved
defeating the one who for me—the price paid,
Jesus‘ death on the
held us captive Christ justice satisfied, the
cross certainly demon-
freed enslaved human- victory won—by his
strates the extent of
ity forever. death on the cross.
God‘s love for us, and
Once again I will seek
Jesus Died To Leave puts upon us an obli-
to live my life by his
Us An Example gation to love God and
example.
Although this in no others sacrificially as
-David Burge
 From Death To Life Page 6

Bill McCracken ern Baptist and / or Bi- my story than what I

ble Churches, which are can share here, but for
When I was 12, my
very conservative here the sake of brevity and
parents sent me to a
in the Bible Belt, and clarity, I'll focus on the
Vacation Bible School
though these churches proverbial straw that
at a small Baptist
are, for the most part, broke this camel's
church. It was there
made up of loving indi- back.
that I heard how
viduals, I discovered a
much God loved me, At Children’s
dark side to the "good
how Jesus had died Church
news" that they were
for me, and how he
preaching that forced About 6 years ago,
wanted me to be with
me to re evaluate what when we were in a
him forevermore. Of
I believe about hell. worship service at a Bi-
course, I also heard
There is much more to ble Church we served
about where I would
spend eternity if I re-
fused Jesus' offer.
Nevertheless, it was
God's love that I re-
sponded to and I ac-
cepted Jesus as my
saviour with baptism
following shortly
thereafter. Though
young, I took my
Christianity very seri-
ously and even went
to Bible College after
high school to train for
the ministry.
I've spent most of my “I'll focus on the proverbial straw that
adult years in South- broke this camel's back.”
 Issue 41 Page 7

in, some helpers from

the Children's Church
came to get me out
of "adult church" to
tend to my son, who
was about 4 years old
at the time. They said
he was crying hysteri-
cally and that no one
was able to get him
to calm down. I
feared he had hurt
himself somehow, so
I wasted no time get-
ting up and going to
the Children's Church.
My son was in the
hallway outside, cry-
ing, almost at the top
of his voice, "Daddy,
why would Jesus burn
me? Why would Jesus
burn me?" I picked
him up and carried
him outside, trying to
get him to calm
down. After he had
settled down a bit, I
asked him why he hadn't asked Jesus into my wife, I returned to
thought Jesus would his heart. I did my the Children's Church
burn him. He replied best to reassure him to try to find out ex-
that he had just seen that Jesus loved him actly what had hap-
a picture of a man and would not burn pened there. The
that Jesus was burn- him. teacher had indeed
ing because the man After taking my son to shown the kids a
 From Death To Life Page 8

graphic depiction of My CI Journey alism does have a

someone engulfed in Begins number of scriptures
flames, his seared that seem to support
That incident began a it, especially when con-
arms and tortured face
journey for me that's sidering what the
raised towards a
taken about 3 years of
heaven that would apostle Paul says
never hear was accomplished
his cry for at the cross and
mercy. I re- how God will even-
minded the tually be all in all.
teacher that But while I found it
Jesus never an appealing view-
once threat- point, it seemed to
ened children downplay any need
with everlast- on our part for
ing torment. change or for fol-
I was aghast lowing Jesus. And,
that she felt maybe more impor-
it necessary tantly, universalism
to present did not seem to
the gospel to ring true with Je-
small children sus' teachings.
in this way.
But she felt I also investigated
justified in the more liberal
what she had viewpoint that hell
done and did simply doesn't exist
not want God because God's just
to hold the too loving to punish
children's blood on her anyone for sins or be-
studying the scriptures, cause the doctrine of
hands if they should praying, and struggling hell was inserted into
fail to accept Jesus. I with the issue of hell.
was shocked and out- the gospels by later
At first, I felt that per- church fathers. But
raged by this attitude.
haps Christian univers- again, I found that Je-
We left that church
alism was the answer sus did seem to teach
shortly thereafter.
that I sought. Univers- on hell and I couldn't
 Issue 41 Page 9
discount what he had to say. To the witness of most scriptures, the
take Jesus seriously, even if one teachings of Jesus, and of the cry in
considers him to be only a good my heart to believe in a God of love.
teacher, one has to take his teach- I felt that I had found an escape
ings on hell as part of the pack- from a "turn or burn" religion, but
age. I found it incredible that the yet I could hold onto the serious-
early church would have implanted ness of the necessity of our follow-
Greek notions of hell into the gos- ing Jesus and the consequences of
pels. This view just didn't line up refusing God's love. Conditional Im-
with the overall mortality in no way
prophetic thrust downplays the sub-
that Jesus had ject of hell or what
about the impor- Jesus has to say
tance of follow- about it. It just bib-
ing him and his lically, logically and
way. gracefully (an im-
With further portant word for
searching, I me) recast the sub-
came across Ed- ject into a frame-
ward Fudge's work that allows us
book, ―The Fire to follow Jesus out
That Consumes". of love for God and
After reading the others, and to offer
reviews on the a view of God that
book, I immedi- does not portray
ately felt that him as a divine tor-
here was some- turer.
one who took Growing in
Jesus and the subject of hell as Faith Today
seriously as I did, but had reached
Here I am today, a believer in CI.
a different conclusion about hell
Granted, I don't directly speak out
than what traditional Christianity
about it much in my local church, as
teaches. I grabbed my Bible and
this view would be outright rejected
slowly, thoughtfully, and prayer-
simply because it doesn't line up
fully went through Fudge's book.
with their tradition. But I have
What I found there in the subject
taught it to my family and men-
of Conditional Immortality satisfied
 From Death To Life Page 10
tioned it to those who faithful to the truth of no longer have to lie
cross my path who, the scriptures, the awake at night won-
like me, wonder how a teachings of Jesus, and dering how I could en-
"God of love" could the character of God joy heaven while God
torture someone in enough to wrestle with is tormenting my loved
hell forevermore. this issue and to offer ones in hell, should
Though the view of an alternative interpre- they refuse his love.
God as an eternal tor- tation of hell than what My conscience is clean
mentor may well keep we can get from most and I find that, to the
some people from conservative churches. best of my ability, I
considering Christian- When I now get the op- can truly love God
ity, it is surprising how portunity to share with all that I am. And
many people in our Christ with someone, I I can present his love
traditional churches can do so fully believing to others without try-
wonder about this that God is indeed love, ing to make eternal
also, and given the that Jesus should be in- torment sound like
opportunity, would tentionally followed, something that God
welcome some an- and that the gospel is would feel justified in
swers to this question. truly a matter of life doing. It's wonderfully
I'm very thankful that and death. I no longer freeing to finally ac-
there are Christians have to try to explain cept that God is love
out there, like Edward why Jesus would call us and truly desires that
Fudge and many oth- to love our enemies none perish.
ers, who long to be while he tortures his. I Bill McCracken

THE AUTHOR
Bill McCracken is married with two grown
children and two still growing children. He
lives near Fort Worth, Texas. He is almost
50 years old and accepted Jesus as his
Saviour when he was 12. He has spent
most of his adult years in Southern Bap-
tist and/or Bible Churches in the very con-
servative “Bible Belt” and only recently
came to Conditionalist convictions.
 Issue 41 Page 11

Our resurrection hope that He is the way, the He is the life, He infers
is confirmed in the truth and the life (v.6) resurrection.
New Testament. Though He does not In the middle of this
RESURRECTION IN mention resurrection in final discourse to the
THE GOSPELS this verse, He is infer- disciples, Jesus as-
(PART 2) sured them,
In John 14:1-3 we ―Because I live, ye
find verses which shall live
have been a com- also.‖ (John 14:19).
fort to Christians No mention here of
through the ages, the word
as Christ intended ―resurrection‖ or be-
they should be. ing ―raised from the
But how can they dead‖, but this is His
be fulfilled if there obvious meaning.
is no resurrection? Several actual resur-
He has gone to pre- rections are re-
pare a place for us, corded in the gos-
He will come again pels. The first one is
and take us to Him- that of the daughter
self, to be with Him. of Jairus, the ruler
This will be when of the synagogue. It
He returns as Paul de- ring that He is both is notable that though
scribes it in 1 Thessa- the way and the life the Lord Jesus was
lonians 4: 16, 17, after and is thus perfectly told by the ruler that
which we shall be for able to fulfil His prom- his daughter was
ever with the Lord. A ise in the earlier verses dead, Jesus, when He
few verses later Jesus of taking His own who came into the house,
answers a question of believe in Him to be said she ―is not dead
Thomas by telling him with Himself - because but sleepeth.‖ This is
 From Death To Life Page 12

the same expression ―Talitha neral group carrying

we have seen used in cumi‖ (―Damsel, I say the only son of a
the Old Testament for unto thee, arise‖), and widow for burial. Christ
the dead - ―sleep‖. she immediately rose compassionately went
However, the Lord up and walked, to eve- up to the bier, touched
went further by say- ryone‘s astonishment. it, and spoke to the
ing, ―The maid is not Christ knew she was young man, ―Young
dead.‖ This was be- man, I say unto thee,
Arise.‖ He sat up and
began to speak. One
can imagine the joy of
the mother and the as-
tonishment of all the
villagers! The Scripture
says that ―there came
a fear on all: and they
glorified God ...‖ (Luke
7:11-16).
The well-known occa-
sion of the raising of
Lazarus is the next
time we read of Christ
raising a dead person.
Lazarus and his family
were great friends of
Jesus. He often went
to their home. But
when the sisters, Mar-
tha and Mary, called
cause He knew He hungry, and instructed him to come to heal
was going to resurrect her mother to give her Lazarus, he delayed
her (Matt.9:18, 24). something to eat (Matt. until he had been dead
In the presence of her 9:23-25; Mark 5:41-43; and in the grave four
parent and three disci- Luke 8:49-56). days. He referred to
ples, Christ took this The second incident Lazarus‘ death as a
twelve year old girl by was when Christ and ―sleep‖. This, of
the hand, said to her, his disciples met a fu- course, was because
 Issue 41 Page 13

he knew that He in- resurrection. The Lord ing Lazarus from the
tended to raise him took the opportunity to dead was a vivid, prac-
from the dead, ―to give a brief teaching tical, and powerful il-
awake him out of about Himself and His lustration of His power
sleep‖ (John 11:11). relationship to that to raise the dead. He
When He did arrive at resurrection. ―I am the wished to strengthen
the home, He went resurrection, and the their belief, and ours,
out to the in the fact that He
grave, asked for can, and will, res-
the great stone urrect all those
which closed its who believe in
mouth to be re- Him, to eternal
moved, and life. Says G. E.
called, ―Lazarus, Ladd, ―The be-
come forth.‖ liever in Jesus
Lazarus, bound may die physi-
in his grave- cally, but death
clothes, rose has lost its grip;
and came out of he will certainly
the tomb. Many come to life
of the aston- again, because he
ished people already possesses
then believed eternal life; and
on the Lord the one who has
(John 11:1-45). received eternal
It is important life must live for
to notice what ever.‖59
Martha said, When Jesus sent
when Jesus told out his twelve dis-
her, Thy brother shall life: he that believeth ciples, He gave them
rise again.‖ She re- in me, though he were instructions to preach
plied, ―I know that he dead, yet shall he live: the gospel, and au-
shall rise again in the And whosoever liveth thority and power to
resurrection at the last and believeth in me do miracles. Among
day.‖ Obviously she shall never die.‖ (vv. these was the instruc-
was one of those who 23-26.) In fact, the tion to ―raise the
believed in a coming whole exercise of rais- dead‖ (Matt. 10:8).
 From Death To Life Page 14

This instruction is not in- son in his Chain Refer- raising of the widow of
cluded in those given to ence Bible‘s Harmony Nain‘s son is documented
the seventy when they of Jesus‘ Life, places it earlier in the same chap-
were sent out (Luke 10), later chronologically. ter, and we are specifi-
and when they return,
rejoicing, to report to
Him, they only mention
that the devils were
subject to them in the
name of Jesus, but do
not say what other
miracles they may have
performed (Luke
10:17). However, the
dead were raised by
those empowered by
Christ, as we shall see
in the book of Acts.
In Matt.11 when John
the Baptist sent his dis-
ciples to Christ to ask
whether He was the
One they were expect-
ing, His answer to John
included the phrase,
―the dead are raised
up.‖ Jesus was using
Isaiah 35:5-6 and 61:1
to answer John, but
neither of these pas-
sages actually have the
words, ―the dead are
raised up‖. Matthew 9,
the raising of Jairus‘ But when we turn in cally told that John‘s dis-
daughter, is recorded Luke 7 to the narrative ciples had gone to him
before this reply to of John the Baptist‘s and reported this event
John. However, Thom- query, we find that the and others (verse 18).
 Issue 41 Page 15

So John would have rection of Jesus, and varsity Press, p.104

known of at least this went into the city of The Author
one raising of the Jerusalem, and were
Beryl Joy Ching, spent
dead. seen by many people!
over 40 years on the
One more amazing We are not told how
mission field in India.
incident of resurrec- long they walked
Returning to New Zea-
tion of human beings around the city, nor
land to ―retire‖, Beryl
in the gospels is found what happened after-
was for a long time
in Matt. 27:52. Just wards.
secretary of this Asso-
before Christ died on However, we can be ciation. RESURREC-
the cross, He cried out certain that all these TION AS REVEALED IN
with a loud voice, resurrections of people THE OLD TESTAMENT
―Father, into thy hands in the gospels were AND CONFIRMED IN
I commend my only THE NEW TESTAMENT
spirit:‖ (Luke 23:46). temporary, not eter- is the full title of her
At that time two as- nal. For example, Thesis presented to
tounding things hap- Douglas Connelly says: the Faculty of the
pened, according to ―Lazarus was revived Freelandia Institute
Matthew. The first was back to life but ulti- Biblical Theological
that the very thick veil mately died again. His College in partial fulfil-
between the Holy reviving was different ment of the require-
Place and the Holy of from Jesus‘ resurrec- ments for the Degree
Holies in the temple tion (and our future Master of Biblical Stud-
was torn in two from resurrection). In the ies.
the top to the bottom, resurrection our bodies
thus opening up the will be glorified and we
way into the very will never die.‖60
presence of God. The Beryl Ching
second, even more as- Footnotes
tounding, was that
59. Bible Characters
graves were opened,
and Doctrines. Scrip-
and the bodies of
ture Union. Vol. 16,
many saints who slept
Study 43.
in death, arose.
These came out of the 60. John, the Way to
graves after the resur- True Life. A LifeGuide
Bible Study, Inter-
 From Death To Life Page 16

Easter, Africa and

Immortality
In the Times Online Christian evangelism black and white, work-
(December 27, 2008) I makes in Africa: sharply ing in Africa, do heal
read the startling distinct from the work the sick, do teach peo-
headline: ―As an athe- of secular NGOs, gov- ple to read and write;
ist, I truly believe Af- ernment projects and and only the severest
rica needs God.‖ The international aid efforts. kind of secularist could
subtitle went on, These alone will not do. see a mission hospital
―Missionaries, not aid Education
money, are the solu- and train-
tion to Africa's biggest ing alone
problem - the crushing will not do.
passivity of the peo- In Africa
ple's mindset.‖ Christianity
Back to Africa changes
The story was the people's
work of journalist Mat- hearts. It
thew Parris, returning brings a
after 45 years to the spiritual
country he knew as a transfor-
boy, now called Ma- mation.
lawi. The Times Christ- The rebirth
mas Appeal had in- is real. The change is or school and say the
cluded a small British good.‖ world would be better
charity working to pro- He goes on to say, ―I without it. I would al-
vide clean water there. used to avoid this truth low that if faith was
Parris went to see this by applauding - as you needed to motivate
work. can - the practical work missionaries to help,
Though ―a confirmed of mission churches in then, fine: but what
atheist―, Parris says, Africa. It's a pity, I counted was the help,
―I've become con- would say, that salva- not the faith. But this
vinced of the enor- tion is part of the pack- doesn't fit the facts.‖
mous contribution that age, but Christians
 Issue 41 Page 17

Facing Facts by the fear of evil spir- the ancestors and to

The article speaks of its, of ancestors, and see nature as dark and
how faith has trans- of nature and the wild. dangerous. Jesus
formed those Africans All of this contributes came to set people
who have converted. to what he calls ―a free from all this—and
They are lively, curious, great weight‖ that an even greater fear:
and they engage with ―grinds down the indi- He shared our human-
the world, they are di- vidual spirit, stunting ity so that ―by his
rect in their dealings curiosity. People won't death he might de-
with others, something, take the initiative, stroy him who holds
Parris said, ―that won't take things into the power of death—
seemed to be missing their own hands or on that is, the devil– and
in traditional African their own shoulders.‖ free those who all their
life.‖ The Christian con-
verts, he concluded,
―stood tall.‖
This change cannot be
disconnected from per-
sonal faith. These Afri-
cans‘ whole worldview
has been transformed
by the ―conception of
man's place in the Uni-
verse‖ Christianity
teaches.
Traditional lives were held in slav-
Christ and the
World View ery by their fear of
Parris critiques aspects West death‖ (Heb. 2:14-15).
of the African world- We in the West have
This Easter let‘s cele-
view such as the tradi- been under the influ-
brate our freedom
tional tribal mindset ence of Christianity for
from the greatest fear
which he says feeds so long we have for-
of all. It is the promise
into the ―big man‖ and gotten how much
of immortality in Jesus
gangster politics of the ―progress‖ is due to
Christ that sets us free
African city. He also the Christian faith. We
to really live.
specifically points to have forgotten what it
David Burge.
the anxiety produced is to fear evil spirits or
 From Death To Life Page 18

Q&A
the age people who die don‘t
that we go anywhere but to the
were graves in which they
when we are buried
died? Will (Ecclesiastes 9:10).
people There, they sleep (our
who died English word
in old age ―cemetery‖ is based on
be old the Greek word
people for- ―koimeterion,‖ which
ever? Will means ―a sleeping
people room‖) until the day
who die as when Jesus returns to
babies be raise them from the
babies for- dead (1 Thessalonians
ever? If 4:14-16). During that
that is the time (except for the
case, it last few years‘ worth of
seems to people who die right
me that it before He comes), they
would be decay into
better to ―dust‖ (Genesis 3:19).
Question die in the prime of life. When Jesus returns,
In the movie, ―The He will perform a mira-
Answer
Gladiator,‖ when the cle as amazing as the
The first problem with miracle of Creation it-
hero dies, he goes to
the movie‘s portrayal of self: He will bring all
Elysium, where his
the afterlife is the idea those people back to
wife and young son
that everyone ―goes‖ life (John 5:28-29).
are waiting for him. In
somewhere immedi- What kind of bodies
a biblical view of Eter-
ately after dying. Ac- will they have? The Bi-
nity, will we remain
cording to the Bible,
 Issue 41 Page 19

ble says that it‘s fool- life in Eternity to be be ‗old‘ at all; I‘ll be
ish for us to even ask ―better‖ for some of ‗new,‘ and instead of
such questions (1 Co- Eternity‘s inhabitants getting older and older,
rinthians 15:35-49). than it is for others. If I‘ll be getting newer
They will certainly that were true, how and newer!‖ (Thanks
have bodies; the bod- could it be a ―perfect‖ for this good theology,
ies will certainly be life? The right answer Dwight! I‘ve used it
human; peo- hundreds of
ple will be times!!)
able to tell John Roller
who is who
(how else The Author
can Matthew Dr John Roller was
19:28 be ful- born in 1949 and
filled?); but became a Christian
the differ- in 1968. He is an
ence be- accomplished Bible
tween what a teacher. He holds
person the degrees of AB,
looked like ThM and PhD. He
when they has written two
died and books and a host of
what they tracts and booklets.
will look like John and his wife
when they Mary have three
are raised is grown children and
comparable two grandchildren.
to the difference be- (in my opinion) is the The article above was
tween what a seed one that I heard Dwight originally sent out by
looks like and what Carpenter give over a email as ROLLER UP-
the plant that grows quarter of a century DATE #19 – December
from it looks like. ago. When asked, ―In 24, 2008. For more
There‘s a problem with eternity, how old will from John visit
your ―conclusion,‖ too, you be?,‖ Dwight re- drjohnrol-
my friend. It assumes sponded, ―According to ler.blogspot.com.
that it is possible for Revelation 21:5, I won‘t
 From Death To Life Page 20

God On the Buses

David Burge
The British Humanist God would spend an Christians
Association has spon- eternity in ―torment in
sored an advertising hell‖ (NZ Herald, no Respond: For
campaign using the date provided). The Christian response
slogan ―There‘s proba- The adverts have been to the campaign has
bly no God. Now stop publicly endorsed by been, in the main,
worrying and enjoy prominent atheist Pro- positive. ―We think
your life.‖
These adverts
were to appear
on around 800
buses across
the country as
well as in Lon-
don tube sta-
tions.
Who and
Why?
The campaign
is the brain-
child of comedy writer
fessor Richard Dawkins that the campaign is a
Ariane Sherine (left in
(centre in the photo), great way to get peo-
the photo) who says
who told the BBC that ple thinking about
that she objected to
the ad campaign was God. The posters will
the Christian adverts
designed to make peo- encourage people to
on some buses which
ple think, an action he consider the most im-
carried an internet ad-
said was ―anathema to portant question we
dress warning that
religion.‖ will ever face in our
people who rejected
 Issue 41 Page 21

lives,‖ said Paul Wool- ian Bible Society say plaints it has ever re-
ley, Director of the their advert is not a di-
ceived on an advertise-
public theology think rect response to the ment was 1,600.
tank Theos (ASSIST atheist campaign. They One man, a Christian
News Service, Tues- chose a verse from bus driver by the name
day, January 6, 2009). from the Bible, Psalm of Ron Heather, re-
―The slogan itself is a 53:1, ―The fool hath fused to drive the ―No
great discussion said in his heart, ThereGod‖ bus (ASSIST
starter. Telling some- is no God.‖ Apparently News Service Sunday,
one ―there's probably (according to the BBC), January 18, 2009).
no God‖ is a bit like the Russian Orthodox The atheist bus ads
telling them that have been
they've probably launched in Spain.
remembered to The Italian cam-
lock their front paign has run into
door. It creates a snag as has the
the doubt that Australian one.
they might not
"Right-wing politi-
have done so.‖
cians criticized us
Some Christian ferociously," Giorgio
groups have Villella of The Ital-
been prompted ian Union of Athe-
to begin an ad- ists and Rationalist
vertising cam- Agnostics (UAAR)
paign of their told Reuters."It‘s
own. Church was also pre-
strange that in a coun-
The BBC has reported paring bus adverts.
try where ads depicting
that buses adorned Christians near-naked women
with the slogan ―There
definitely is a God‖. Respond: Against wearing skimpy linge-
rie are permitted on
The full text, by the Britain‘s Advertising buses that we can‘t
Christian Party, reads: Standards Authority run ads about athe-
―There definitely is a (ASA) has reported re- ism," he complained.
God; so join the Chris- ceiving some 200 com- In Australia, the coun-
tian Party and enjoy plaints over the advert try‘s largest outdoor
your life.‖ The Trinitar- so far. The most com- advertising agency,
 From Death To Life Page 22

APN Outdoor, has re- would spend an eter- sary stumbling block to
jected the bid by the nity in ―torment in many on the path to-
Atheist Foundation of hell‖. Members of this ward faith. We don‘t
Australia for ad space. Association, readers of need an advert on a
I know of no plans for our magazine and bus to tell us that.
any such campaign in website, know this is We must do what we
New Zealand. not what the Bible can to bring people
teaches. back to the simple
Missing The I find it intolerable to truth of the Bible:
Point suppose that a God of There is life for all who
love would keep a per-
Personally, I am quite
taken aback that the
atheists seem to lack
the courage of their
convictions. The ad-
vert only says,
―There‘s probably no
God‖. I thought it was
the agnostic who was
not sure if there was a
God or not!
I hope the campaign
will prompt people to
take time out from the
son alive throughout come to God through
busyness of everyday
all eternity, for no Jesus, and death only
life to think about the
other purpose than to for those who wilfully,
―big issues‖ but many
inflict upon them un- and to the end persist
Christians have missed
ending pain. Most ra- in rebellion against
a very important point.
tional people think God. The emphasis, at
The original inspira- likewise. Easter and always,
tion for the campaign
This terrible teaching should be on the love
came from a woman
of ―eternal torment‖ of God and his provi-
whose chief objection
that has worked its sion of life in Christ!
was to the supposedly
way into the Christian David Burge
Christian notion that
church is an unneces-
people who reject God

Cut out and return this
page to:
Conditional
Immortality
Association
PO Box 202-162
Southgate
Takanini 2246
Membership
I agree with the
Statement of Faith & am
applying for membership
in the Association:
Name:
_____________________
_____________________
_____________________
Address:
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_____________________
_____________________
Email:
_____________________
Denomination (if any):
_____________________
_____________________
E-mail:
respublishing@slingshot.co.nz
Website:
www.afterlife.co.nz
Statement of Faith
1. We believe in God and His one and only Son,
Jesus the Christ. Heb. 11:6; John 14:1; 3:16; 20:31;
Mat. 16:16.
2. We believe in the Holy Spirit. 2Pet. 1:21; 1Cor.
6:19; Jude 20; Eph. 3:5.
3. We believe that Jesus died for us and gave
himself a ransom for all. Rom. 5:8; 1Cor. 15:3; 1Tim.
2:6.
4. We believe that God raised Jesus from the dead;
that by resurrection He became Lord of both the
dead and the living, and the first fruits of those who
have fallen asleep; and that whoever believes in Him
shall not perish but have eternal life. Rom. 10:9;
14:9; 1Cor. 15:20; John 3:16.
5. We believe that baptism is commanded by Christ,
was practiced by His Apostles, and is taught in the
New Testament. Mat. 28:18,19; Acts 8:12,38.
6. We believe that all Scripture is God-breathed and
is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and
training in righteousness, so that the people of God
may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2Tim. 3:16,17.
7. We believe that human beings are by nature
mortal. Gen. 2:7; 3:19; 1Tim. 6:16; 2Tim. 1:10;
Rom. 2:6-7.
8. We believe that human beings in death are
unconscious. Psa. 6:5; 115:17; Ecc. 9:5,10. This is
likened to "sleep". Job 14:12; Psa. 13:3; Jer. 51:39;
Dan. 12:2; John 11:11-14; 1Cor. 15:51.
9. We believe that immortality is obtained only
through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. 1Cor. 15:21-
23; 2Tim. 4:7-8; 1John 5:9-12.
10. We believe that there will be a resurrection of
both the righteous and the wicked, to be followed by
the Judgment. Acts 24:15; John 5:25,28,29; Rev.
20:12,13.
11. We believe that evil and evil-doers shall be finally
destroyed. Psa. 145:20; Mat. 10:28 Rom. 6:21; Phil.
3:19; Heb. 2:14; 1John 3:8; Rev. 22:3.
12. We believe in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
Acts 1:11; John 14:3; 1Thes. 4:16.
 Conference and Dinner 2009
CONDITIONAL IMMORTALITY ASSOCIATION
Of New Zealand
Justin Martyr: “God’s Philosopher”
What the early church really believed about
the immortality of the soul, “hellfire” and its
relevance to today, from the life of Justin
Martyr.
Can you present Christ in a way which is relevant
and persuasive, and not just win arguments? Is
“eternal torment” a necessary part of the Gospel?
Have you ever wondered what the early church
really believed about the immortality of the soul and
“hellfire”? Learn the answers to these questions and
more from one of the great figures of the early church, one who paid
the ultimate price for his faith, Justin Martyr.
When? Saturday May 2nd Meeting, 5:00pm, Dinner 6:15pm*.
Where? Barrycourt Conference Centre, 10-20 Gladstone Rd. Parnell
Who? David Burge
Cost? $32 (waged) $22 (non-waged) $17 (theological students).
RSVP Resurrection Publishing, Box 202162, Southgate, Takanini 2246,
by Friday April 17.
Our Speaker
David is pastor of Takanini Church of Christ and has
graduated from Auckland University with a Master of
Commerce and from Bible College of New Zealand
with a Bachelor of Divinity. He has been President of
both the Conditional Immortality Association of New
Zealand and the Advent Christian Conference of
New Zealand for a number of years. He is Editor of
this magazine. He is married to Tarnya and they
home school their eight children.
Cheques payable to “Conditional Immortality Association”
See insert inside this magazine or go to www.afterlife.co.nz to RSVP