The future is shifting:

Aboriginal young people leading the way

An interview with
Alice Abou, Amber Abou, Cheyenne Andy & Josh Simpson

We are members of the Youth Advisory Committee of the Vancouver Aboriginal Child and
Family Services Society. We can be contacted c/o Holly_Anderson@vacfss.com. For more
information about our organization see, www.vacfss.com

Abstract
In this interview, members of the Youth Advisory Committee of the Vancouver Aboriginal Child
and Family Services Society describe how this committee is enabling Aboriginal youth to
have a voice not only in their own care, but also in the larger care system. The committee
holds an annual youth conference, trains new foster parents, are consulted about policies,
and advocate in the greater community for changes within the care system.

Key words: Aboriginal youth, child protection, leadership, accountability, partnership

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 Introduction
We would like to acknowledge that we are speaking today in Darwin on the traditional
territory of the Larrakia Nation and express our gratitude for being guests here. We are here
representing the Youth Advisory Committee of the Vancouver Aboriginal Child and Family
Services Society (VACFSS), an Aboriginal Delegated Agency in Vancouver, Canada.
Our agency is one of 22 such agencies in our province and stems from the development
of agreements between the province and First Nations communities to return historic
responsibilities for child protection and family support to Aboriginal communities. We are
here today representing the guardianship program which acts as legal guardian for
approximately 300 urban Aboriginal children in care.

Since 2010, we have helped create and sit on this Youth Advisory Committee. This committee
consists of 12 young people either currently or formally in the care of VACFSS. The committee
is enabling Aboriginal youth to have a voice not only in our own care, but in fact in the
larger care system or agency that represents us. We hold an annual youth conference, train
new foster parents, are consulted about policies, and we advocate in the greater community
for changes within the care system.

In this interview, which took place at the 3rd International Indigenous Social Work Conference,
we explain why this work is important to us and what the Youth Advisory Committee
is making possible.

Also included in this interview are Holly Anderson, who is a Metis woman from St. Eustache
Manitoba and the Guardianship Manager at VACFSS, and Andrew Rowe who is an Australian
Social Worker who works at VACFSS. The interviewer was David Denborough. Also present
were Cheryl White from Dulwich Centre and Lou Harms from the University of Melbourne.

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DD: To begin, Id like to ask you about what leadership
means to each of you. You are clearly showing many
different sorts of leadership, itd be interesting to know
your thoughts on this
Alice: For me, leadership means our Advisory Committee
advocating for all youth in care, speaking out on
their behalf. We are the only voice for Aboriginal
young people in the care system in Vancouver.
So leadership means always being aware of the
entire system and all the young people within it.
We realise that often adults are speaking for youth,
creating policy, initiatives and programs without youth
representation or a youth voice. This really isnt okay.
As a group, weve realised that we cant wait for social
workers or adults to fix the problems. Its our voices
that can, and should be making a difference.
Amber: For me, leadership is about learning and absorbing
as much as I can at conferences like this, and being
able to put it into terms that are more accessible so
that I can take the learnings back and share them with
other young people in our own ways without the
academic jargon.
DD: They are two significant concepts of leadership, both
really different but both so important
Cheyenne: Leadership for me is a little different. I wasnt
involved when the group started. I didnt know
much about it until my Social Worker mentioned it
to me. When I first joined, I was very quiet. I didnt
participate in a lot of it. It took time for me to get used
to everybody. I remember the first time I spoke up.
We were all sitting at a table like this. We were talking
about our stories and how we felt about different
things. That was when I started to learn how to step
up and use my voice to make a difference and get
my opinion out. Learning to step up is a different sort
of leadership. Knowing that youre changing stuff
is pretty cool. I have a lot of younger siblings who
are still under care. Its kind of cool to see changes
happening in your own home as a result of young
people speaking out.
DD: You mentioned your younger sister yesterday, in your
conference presentation. What does it mean to your
siblings that you are on this Committee?
Cheyenne: Each year we organise a youth conference for
other young people in care and my siblings come to
this. So they see whats happening and Ill make sure
that theyre okay during the event. From behind the
scenes I can see the impact the conference makes
on them. For them to be able to see me speaking in
public and facilitating the event is really cool. They
encourage me and they support me. I think its really
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important for my little sister because now shes
wanting to join the group. Shes been to one or two
of the meetings when shes been downtown with
me. She sees how we speak to each other, how we
interact, how we feel about each other, and I think this
is impacting her. Shes quite shy so Im hoping that
shell be able to learn that its okay to open up and
feel different things and to be comfortable with this.
DD: So you encourage your younger siblings and they
also encourage you?
Cheyenne: Yes. For me to go up and speak in public I get
really, really nervous. So Ill be sitting there with my
siblings and Ill tell my little sister, Hey Im feeling
really nervous to go up there. And theyll be like,
No its okay youre a really good speaker. Dont be
nervous, just pretend you know everybody. Its cool
to have them there. And when I come back and sit
down after speaking, theyll be like, Oh hey, you did
a good job. Its a small comment but it helps me,
it motivates me.
DD: You started off by saying that youre the only Youth
Advisory Committee in Canada so you feel you have
a responsibility to speak up on behalf of all the young
people in the system and now were also hearing
about how some young people who are still in care,
are supporting you to keep speaking out. It sounds
like something mutually important is happening. Josh,
what does leadership mean to you?
Josh: My idea of leadership is someone who takes initiative
to encourage others to step forward. At some of our
conferences, sometimes we young people are a little
shy to go up and speak so Ill go up there and kind
of embarrass myself and I notice that after do this
other young people will be more comfortable to
step forward.
DD: So this is another form of leadership leadership
through embarrassment. I can really relate to that.
It makes a difference, doesnt it?
Josh: Yeh, I find embarrassing yourself to inspire people
usually works.
DD: Can you speak about some of the initiatives your
committee is involved in.
Amber: We hold the youth conference once a year. And every
month some of us attend a foster parent orientation
night. Two of us sit on that and give a speech about
what our experience of foster care was like, what
worked, what didnt work. We also speak at the
foster parent appreciation dinner, we review policies
and were invited to speak at other agencies and
conferences. .
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Holly: They also changed the complaints system at
VACFSS.
DD: Is this the process whereby young people in care are
able to make complaints? Do you want to say how,
what you changed?
Holly: It used to be a long process involving calling the main
number, asking for the Quality Assurance Adviser,
leaving a message, writing down the complaint and
faxing it in.
Amber: Who would actually go through that process?
Definitely not us. Now the complaint policy is to
email complaints@vacfss.com. For us young people,
emailing is going to be so much easier. Itll take like
two seconds.
DD: It does much improved! Can you tell us more about
what you say when you speak to foster parents,
either on the orientation nights or on the appreciation
nights?
Josh: I can answer that. Im usually on the foster parent
orientation night every month. One of the things well
stress is that as young person we can tell when foster
parents are in it for the money. We can sense it. So
we speak about how this is a kids future youre taking
care of and leading them towards. So please dont do
it for the money.
Alice: The people who attend the orientations are from a
wide range of different cultures. So we also stress
to the people to assist the youth to engage in their
own Aboriginal culture. Thats really important. If it is
possible and appropriate, another thing is to include
their birth family as much as possible in their lives and
maybe go to visit their hometown wherever theyre
from. Me and my sister got the chance to actually go
to our reserve up north which was really cool. Another
thing we talk about is, if there are other siblings, dont
show favouritism to one of them. A lot of times thatll
happen and it can be really destructive. These are
just some of the important values that we think foster
parents should show to their children.
DD: Thats such important knowledge you are conveying.
Can we come back to the issue of money for a
minute? Yesterday, in your presentation, you talked
about money too. It seems like youre really clear in
talking about money, which is actually quite a relief
because sometimes people are not, and it all gets
very confusing! In your presentation, you mentioned
that funding the Youth Advisory Committee really
matters, that being paid to be on the Advisory
Committee is important. Can you say some more
about this
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Alice: As former youth in care, poverty is a huge issue. For
young people who leave care, housing issues and low
employment are real issues for us. Social workers get
paid to do their job, right? So we believe its important
that Youth Advisory Council members get paid for
their time and ideas. We are paid a stipend of $40-
$45 a month.
Holly: As an agency, we know that isnt a lot of money, but
to sit through a two-hour meeting a month and do a
couple of other tasks, it works out at just over $20
an hour so we think its fair enough, and it makes a
difference doesnt it?
Alice: Yeah. Because a lot of us on the committee have jobs
and we have to take time off during the day to go to
the meeting. So it makes sense for our time to be
valued, right?
DD: I think you also mentioned yesterday that at the
beginning, being paid the stipend might even help
make the decision to join the committee?
Amber: Most definitely! That was my reason at first!
DD: And then over time this changed?
Amber: At the beginning, we didnt know what the committee
was going to be like. But when we started seeing
people really listening and taking action then things
changed.
DD: This might be too hard a question because this would
have been a long time ago, but do you remember the
moment when you first noticed that the organisation
was really taking seriously what you were saying?
Amber: I really enjoyed the first update meeting we attended.
VACFSS has about 150 staff and two or three times
a year, we all get together. Its quite intimidating
speaking in front of 150 people but our CEO is an
incredibly strong Aboriginal woman who believes in
creating space and opportunities but we also have
a responsibility to report back to her at these update
meetings. We have to summarise what the Youth
Advisory Committee has done that year as a group.
I remember that first update meeting we had to go
to. After we did our speech and our presentation
everyone clapped. They were all really listening and
came up and talked to us afterwards. For me at least,
that was the moment that showed me that they were
listening.
Alice: I think the next update meeting will be really good
when we tell them weve presented in Australia and
are being published in a journal.
Cheyenne: I think theyll be happy!
Josh: Maybe a raise will be in order.
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DD: What was the moment for you Cheyenne? You thats where I noticed we really started to bond and
mentioned before that youd been very quiet but see each other in a different light.
then there was a moment when you first spoke in
DD: Holly can I ask you what a difference the Youth
the group do you remember what you first spoke
Advisory Committee makes to your work as the
about?
Guardianship Manager?
Cheyenne: I remember being at the table and Id been hearing
Holly: Such a profound impact. These guys have heard me
stories from other young people about how theyd
say a million times, this is the best part of my job.
been moved from one group home to another and
As an Aboriginal woman, watching young Aboriginal
that theyd never had foster parents. I was being
leaders develop in front of your eyes has been
really quiet and I remember Holly, asked me what
humbling, its reduced us to tears. Its the most deeply
my opinion was and what I thought. The whole room
inspiring part of my job, because I can see the future
suddenly went quiet and I was like, oh my goodness.
shifting. As a social worker, you dont get to see the
The first words I spoke were about my background,
future shifting very often Im going to get emotional
about having been in a foster home my whole life with
now just talking about it
the same foster parents, and about how this foster
care was good, and how shocking it was for me to DD: Thats a beautiful phrase, to see the future shifting.
hear about other young peoples experiences of never Andrew, as a white Australian man, from Strathalbyn,
having that. I just wanted to share that I dont take whose been working alongside these folks in the
that for granted and at the same time I didnt want Youth Advisory Committee, if those tears of yours
to come across as gloating. So I just explained my could speak, what might they be saying?
background and how I felt about whatever we were
Andrew: Theyre tears of pride to be honest. I just get blown
talking about. After I spoke, I remember everybody
away by the amount of progress these guys have
else started talking again and I thought to myself,
made. I remember when we started off, just making
that felt good, this is right, I like this. This is me being
eye contact with anyone was a big deal, let alone
able to share my story, my background with people
presenting or being interviewed. Its a joy.
who understand. The other young people seemed to
understand me and it was quite powerful to be able to DD: It brings you joy?
do that.
Andrew: Yeah, it really does.
DD: Josh, can I come back to a theme that you mentioned
DD: Okay Ive got one last question for the Advisory
yesterday. You spoke about how having fun was an
Committee. Do you have any thoughts about what
important part or principle of your work. Can you say
youd like to say to either the next generation of your
more about that? Perhaps it shouldnt be necessary to
Youth Advisory Committee in Canada or to young
mention this at a professional conference like this, but
people in care here in Australia if they get wind of this
it really is! Why do you think its so important?
idea of setting up Youth Advisory Committees?
Josh: Sometimes lifes hard, and if youve grown up in
Cheyenne: Id want them to know that the first time I went
care, you have long-term relationships with your
on stage to start public speaking, I was shaking. I was
social workers, and its important to keep those
totally scared. As scary as it might be the first time,
relationships. Relationships need a bit of fun! I can
once you do it, it wont be as scary the second time.
still remember the first social worker who ever told me
a joke. I thanked him for it and told him that Id had DD: What about you Amber?
social workers in my life for so many years but that
Amber: I dont know. I remember at the very beginning, other
was the first time one had shared a joke with me!
people told me, Were starting this youth committee,
Fun and laughter also make all the difference in
and I was like, Doesnt sound fun to me. Meet once a
our meetings and in the youth forums. It puts people
month and talk about issues? I was like
at ease.
DD: Keep me away from that!
Holly: We stumbled across an idea early on of taking an
annual trip together a cultural trip. Weve been Amber: Yeh. That really sounds like something I really want
to a pow wow, we shared the word amongst other to go to after work! I think for me, I would just convey
Aboriginal agencies, and weve taken tribal journeys that at first youre gonna be really nervous, then
which in Canada is following an old tribal route and youre gonna grow relationships, then youre gonna
watching historical canoes come into the beach. We want to engage and its so rewarding. I mean the
agreed to travel together on these annual tips and feedback is just amazing. People are so grateful that

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 theres youth standing with the adults at the table,
conveying exactly what worked for them and what
didnt work in the system as a whole. Knowing that
youre changing past cycles, breaking silences, and
finding a way beyond so many past generations of
bad practice with Aboriginal people, is really amazing.
I would definitely say something like that to future
young people who might be interested in giving it
a go. I mean theres a line-up of young people at
VACFSS wanting to be in the committee now, its
crazy!
Josh: And if I may say another thing, its good to let them
know that their voice really can make a difference.
Whatever you say can really hit other peoples
emotions hard. I remember the first few meetings
we went to, when people listened to us theyd get
emotional when we talked. When I saw people
starting to cry a bit, I could tell they really understood.
Andrew: And not just us, other people cry too!
Alice: Its nice to see that were having an effect on people.
People do care. They want to hear about what we
have to say and they care about our opinions. Thats
a huge part of why we keep coming back and why we
want to do this. But there are other reasons too.
Sitting on this committee has created a community
for us as we face the challenges of being raised in
care and as we transition out of the care system.
And now were advocates for the next generation
of Aboriginal children in care. Were trying to ensure
that their rights are met, that their Aboriginal identity
within their family and community is preserved, and
that they too have a voice. This responsibility to future
Aboriginal children and youth in care is something
we hold sacred and perhaps value most in the work
that we do.

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