12/25/2017 Amid Crypto-Chaos, Morgan Stanley Warns 'True Value Of Bitcoin Could Be Zero' | Zero Hedge

Amid Crypto-Chaos, Morgan Stanley Warns 'True Value Of Bitcoin Could Be Zero'

by Tyler Durden
Dec 24, 2017 2:50 PM

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After bouncing aggressively yesterday, cryptocurrencies are sliding again today with Bitcoin testing back below $13,000, Bitcoin Cash below $3,000, and
Ethereum under $700 once again.

image courtesy of CoinTelegraph

Back down...

Bitcoin is back below $13000...though downside volume is notably lower than on Friday...

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From Thursday's close, cryptos are now down 15 to 20%...

There is still no obvious catalyst for the moves aside from a growing anxiety that HODLers may be losing faith...

Mark Constantine
@vexmark

Good morning to everyone except the traitors who sold their

bitcoins yesterday
4:51 PM - Dec 23, 2017

30 217 1,011

Charlie Shrem, a founding member of Bitcoin Foundation, believes that the market has already seen similar price movements and there is no reason to
panic...
 

Charlie Shrem
@CharlieShrem

“There is nothing new under the sun” - Same thing happens

every year (CryptoIQ.co)

4:58 PM - Dec 22, 2017 · Sarasota, FL

43 441 878

Others are arguing that crypto markets are broken...  (via CoinTelegraph)

Cryptocurrencies have captured international attention this year. Although trading currency is nothing new, it certainly feels like an ancient concept being
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12/25/2017 Amid Crypto-Chaos, Morgan Stanley Warns 'True Value Of Bitcoin Could Be Zero' | Zero Hedge
Cryptocurrencies have captured international attention this year. Although trading currency is nothing new, it certainly feels like an ancient concept being
renewed by novel technology. The rapid price increase of almost all digital tokens, which is most noticeable in Bitcoin’s 1,600 percent improvement this
year, and their surprising integration into mainstream investment markets through futures contracts, has made crypto trading an appealing pursuit for
many investors. In fact, with a total market cap of more than $400 bln, crypto trading is becoming one of the hottest investment opportunities available.
 
Unfortunately, many traders are finding that the technological advances or even basic trading needs found on traditional investment exchanges
are utterly lacking on crypto exchanges. This could be a big problem.
 
While cryptocurrencies have never been more popular or more in-demand, the exchanges that are intended to facilitate the buying and selling of
cryptocurrencies are subpar and inefficient. In their current state, they are the tangible manifestation of people’s worst fears about cryptocurrencies. In
general, they lack equity between exchanges, they utilize embarrassingly outdated technology, and they are infused with bad actors.
 
It’s clear that cryptocurrencies are going to be a significant part of the financial landscape going forward, but these problems need a solution.
Perhaps by better understanding how crypto markets are broken, we can begin to find answers for their shortcomings, so that they can thrive.
 
Read more here...

Morgan Stanley, on the other hand, takes a deeper dive into the 'value' side of Bitcoin.

Analyst James Faucette and his team sent a research note to clients this week suggesting that the real value of bitcoin might be $0.
The report (titled "Bitcoin decrypted") did not give a price target for bitcoin, but in a section titled "Attempts to Value Bitcoin," he concluded, stating the
somewhat obvious:

"If nobody accepts the technology for payment then the value would be 0," Faucette suggested.

Faucette backed his argument with this chart of online retailers who accept bitcoin, titled "Virtually no acceptance, and shrinking":

We humbly suggest that, in the same argument, if no one was forced to transact their oil requirements in USDollars, what would the world's reserve
currency be worth?
Faucette described why it is so hard to ascribe value to the cryptocurrency. It's not like a currency, it's not like gold, and it has had difficulty scaling.
Can Bitcoin be valued like a currency?
No. There is no interest rate associated with Bitcoin.
Like digital gold?
Maybe. Does not have any intrinsic use like gold has in electronics or jewelry. But investors appear to be ascribing some value to it.
Is it a payment network?
Yes but it is tough to scale and does not charge a transaction fee.
Bitcoin average daily trading volume of $3bn (last 30 days) vs $5.4 trillion in the FX market.
Est. <$300mn in daily purchase volume vs. $17bn for Visa.

However, institutions are starting to invest...

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And trading and transaction volumes are soaring...

However, despite Morgan Stanley's admittedly self-defending perspective, we leave it to John McAfee to remind cryptospace players what's important to
remember...

John McAfee
@officialmcafee

OK Everyone ... stop panicking about the across the board dip in
cryptocurrencies. It's Christmas for f-ck sake. The costliest time
of the year. People are cashing in to buy presents which no-one
wants or ever uses but pretends to be thankful for. After Xmas -
big boom.
9:52 PM - Dec 22, 2017

1,197 4,873 15,498

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Aireannpure • Dec 24, 2017 2:54 PM

Its just a deposit account. Holding spot for future taxable and fee ridden transactions. Not an effeicient use of blockchain at all.

Gap Admirer  Aireannpure • Dec 24, 2017 2:57 PM

The guy's a clown if he thinks that electronic 1s and 0s are worthless.  They have infinite value due to maff.  Rare, valuable, maff.

nope-1004  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:01 PM

When the bankers in control allowed "futures", the writing was clearly on the wall and it was game over.  Now, you will hear them start trolling the
internet saying "it went up too fast so naturally was going to correct", denying outright the manipulation and control they impose on everything
financial.

Mcafee says people are cashing out to buy presents.  lmao.... Does this guy even remotely understand the nature of investing and speculating?
 

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bamawatson  nope-1004 • Dec 24, 2017 3:04 PM

true value of morgan stanley is sub-zero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOiZP8FS5Ww

Gap Admirer  bamawatson • Dec 24, 2017 3:05 PM

I'm bummed now that tmosely has turned to the anti-bitcoiner side.  His pro-biotcoin posts were always so good.
 
Peanutz.

tmosley  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:07 PM

Pro-crypto, anti-BTC is too nuanced a view for most peanutz to comprehend, which is why they are always so confused about when to try to
insult me.

Gaius Frakkin' ...  tmosley • Dec 24, 2017 3:57 PM

So how many times has Bitcoin crashed, recovered, and gone to new highs since gold has been down from its highs? I've lost count.

kochevnik  Gaius Frakkin' Baltar • Dec 24, 2017 4:10 PM

These posts are excellent as they plunge the price to low risk point.  Goldbug's negativity appreciated and their ignorance invaluable.  Jew
brainwashing in public schools and university astounding success!  Market participants act like livestock like any property.  Of course industry is
embedding blockchain and bitcoin buys land, cars, amazon, walmart and many other stores.  Silicon Valley startups are all crypto but goldbugs
make decent pullback entries due to absolute situational ignorance

IH8OBAMA  kochevnik • Dec 24, 2017 4:32 PM

"After Xmas - big boom. — John McAfee"
So, if no big boom after Christmas then a big bust?

BarkingCat  kochevnik • Dec 24, 2017 4:41 PM

Walmart takes bitcoin?

 
 

BennyBoy  BarkingCat • Dec 24, 2017 4:55 PM

 
Amid Crypto-Chaos, Bitcoin Warns 'True Value Of Morgan Stanley Could Be Zero'

Being Free  Gaius Frakkin' Baltar • Dec 24, 2017 4:48 PM

3 Gaius.  Try to keep up ok?

moonstears  tmosley • Dec 24, 2017 4:10 PM

tmosely, I don't think he was trying to insult. Don't be dick cheese, it's Christmas eve, Motherfucker( still waiting for you to give me Miota wallet
site info you Bitchez!!!! (Old ZHer Moonstears...this could be Fight Club again, if we believe!))

Exponere Mendaces  tmosley • Dec 24, 2017 4:15 PM

How's that rigged pump going for you?

Some facts, since I know you love them so - GDAX pumper high for BCrash 9,500
Current price - 2,838

Bagholder differential = 6,662 or a full shit-your-socks 70% decline.

Even Brian Armstrong's shiny bald head couldn't keep the price up. The real fun is when the ensuing legal troubles start, seeing how every
exchange Roger Ver gets involved with ends up crashing and burning.

Enjoy the holidays with your BCH!

LOL

tmosley  Exponere Mendaces • Dec 24, 2017 4:34 PM

The cognitive dissonance has taken you. Mind, body, and soul of a peanut.

Ragnar Danneskjold  tmosley • Dec 24, 2017 4:32 PM

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Ragnar Danneskjold  tmosley Dec 24, 2017 4:32 PM
So..What crpto Shitcoin are you pumping today? None will be a store of value if you just keep hopping to the next unproven centralized coin
with incompetent dev teams, and pie-in-the-sky tech.

khnum  Ragnar Danneskjold • Dec 24, 2017 4:35 PM

....BUT BUT there's a special Christmas discount 40 per cent off

The_merovingian  khnum • Dec 24, 2017 5:31 PM

Been saying it for over a month that there would be a nice buying opportunity before Xmas while everybody was saying it would just keep going
up in a nice straight line.
Look at last year and the year before, it was probable if not predictable. Now that the low is almost in, all those peanuts who couldn't wait to get
in at 20k are scarred to buy at 12k. Nothing has changed between 2 weeks ago and now, the same scaling problems are still with us but the
long term outlook is also unchanged.

Say what you want about Bitcoin, for me it is the best trading asset I have seen for many years. That's how real markets used to behave, not
move in an algorithmic fashion like most stawks now adays.

tmosley  Ragnar Danneskjold • Dec 24, 2017 4:49 PM

Wow, I sure wish IOTA had a competant dev team like Core. Transaction costs were a penny when they took over, and now they are $40+. ATH!

Free transactions suck!

topspinslicer  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:17 PM

Get back to us when you have an argument

TuPhat  topspinslicer • Dec 24, 2017 3:33 PM

Get back to us when you have an argument.

DownWithYogaPants  TuPhat • Dec 24, 2017 3:51 PM

Zh should ship out a free case of Polident with every registration. 
And some Chlorine denture cleaning tablets for when their dentures fall plop in the toilet.

topspinslicer  TuPhat • Dec 24, 2017 4:16 PM

Chill bro I was just using a Tmoses- on the mountaintop greatest hits of all time line

ebworthen  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:26 PM

Another Bitcoin article with yet another cutsie cartoon.
Bitcoin, BTC, Light, Ether, etc., etc., etc.
Lots of acronyms and dreams.

The_Juggernaut  bamawatson • Dec 24, 2017 3:04 PM

The instrinsic value of electronic ones and zeros = ???

RedDwarf  The_Juggernaut • Dec 24, 2017 3:14 PM

Value is the regard or utility someone has for someone or something else.  Saying intrinsic value is like saying intrinsic love or compassion.  It
indicates a mind so mired in magical thinking and lack of comprehension as to be filled with gibbersih.
Define your words.  Then structure your thoughts and logic.  I also suggest reading up on the Subjective Theory of Value by Mises.

Gaius Frakkin' ...  The_Juggernaut • Dec 24, 2017 3:45 PM

I say the intrinsic value of my sperm is more than an ounce of gold.

Prove me wrong goldbug retards.

You can't, because intrinsic value is bullshit conjured up by gold misers.

Socratic Dog  Gaius Frakkin' Baltar • Dec 24, 2017 4:01 PM

Maybe you're right.  But I'd pay more for an ounce of gold than an ounce of your sperm.

vato poco  Socratic Dog • Dec 24, 2017 5:49 PM

would cheerfully kiss a girl who had an ounce of *gold* splashed on her face. that other - nah

tmosley  bamawatson • Dec 24, 2017 3:05 PM

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>There is still no obvious catalyst for the moves aside from a growing anxiety that HODLers may be losing faith...

Full retard. Investors are taking profits for Christmas/end of year positioning. If this was about a loss of faith, it would be crashing by 90%.

Blue Steel 309  tmosley • Dec 24, 2017 3:36 PM

I think the whole thing is mass insanity for myriad reasons, but I think you are right here, tmosley.

BarkingCat  tmosley • Dec 24, 2017 4:46 PM

You really need to delineate between investors and speculators.
 

The Wizard  bamawatson • Dec 24, 2017 3:16 PM

These financial wizards are starting to understand what is meant by the word "fiat".

Raffie  bamawatson • Dec 24, 2017 4:04 PM

They are pulling a Jamie Diamon.

Get the price to drop and be a whale and buy low. 

 

Blue Dog  nope-1004 • Dec 24, 2017 4:07 PM

Futures are less than 1% of the global market for Bitcoin. The futures markets aren't open today or tomorrow either while Bitcoin trades
24/7/365.

zebra77a  nope-1004 • Dec 24, 2017 4:10 PM

Here is how it goes:

Unregulatable crypto will be hammered and attacked in probably 2-3 waves of attack..

Media will attack crypto in synchronized waves in concert with central bank insider sell off 

Then regulation will be called for.. 

However good crypto / bad crypto script will then be played to public..
Bad Crypto will be the wild cryptos bitcoin etc non-inflatable

Good Crypto will be the ones under their control aka forkable an inflatable- Ethereum..

Mining will be licensed and taxed..

The exchanges are inflating crypto supply with fake accounts of faked crypto... As long as no bank run against them occurs nobody knows any
different. Whale price manipulation. 

Joebloinvestor  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:01 PM

Only prime #'s are worth anything.

topspinslicer  Joebloinvestor • Dec 24, 2017 4:17 PM

You broke the code!!!!!

Badsamm  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:16 PM

Are you talking about the FED’s QE4ever? Did you really think they printed all those trillions they dumped on the world? How much of the “money”
you own is in the form of cash?

Bondosaurus Rex  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:27 PM

One can say Morgan was being cryptic. It could be zero......then again....what is not as bad as zero?

Justin Case  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 4:30 PM

I have a 4 terabyte drive full of them thar ones and zeros and another 3 terabyte full of them thar ones and zeros. I musta be billionaire by now.
Sell on Ebay?

Kidbuck  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 5:14 PM

Morgan Stanley is worth zero to me. All values are subjective. Enough people see things my way and poof, Morgan Stanley is gone.

Pandelis  Aireannpure • Dec 24, 2017 2:58 PM

??? ' ibl bi i h b k bl h i lf l d l ill b h h hi
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zero??? c'est pas possible. ... not bitcoin ... thats an unbreakable mathematical formula and always will be someone who want such a thing ...
value??? not so sure about that, but BBC keep pumping it up, so it got to be of value ...

troubadourcapital  Aireannpure • Dec 24, 2017 3:00 PM

The underlying fundamental is zero, it's literally lines of code on the computer.
But what speculators are willing to pay for it (sky high prices) is a whole other story.
And it's use for money laundering is coming to an end. The irs now requires accounts with more than $20k Bitcoin to report

http://bullmarkets.co/the-stock-markets-overbought-momentum-is-a-long-te...

Gap Admirer  troubadourcapital • Dec 24, 2017 3:07 PM

Not just lines of code but lines of open-source, freely available, code to anyone who wants to start their own valuable currency in less than ten
minutes.

Mister Ponzi  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:27 PM

Wrong. You can start a currency in ten minutes but to become valuable many other persons have to accept it. Do you really think you achieve this
by copying open source code without adding value to it?

troubadourcapital  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:37 PM

Imagine that. Who knew the day would come when everyone could issue their own currency 

troubadourcapital  Gap Admirer • Dec 24, 2017 3:48 PM

Imagine that. Who knew the day would come when everyone could issue their own currency 

kochevnik  troubadourcapital • Dec 24, 2017 4:15 PM

Not that police will steal cash and debit cards funds.  Your ability to distinguish different shades of fascism amazing

Badsamm  Aireannpure • Dec 24, 2017 3:20 PM

In other news

http://www.prepperfortress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/images-1.jpg

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