THE WITNESS, AMMONIUM IN ACCORDANCE WITH ART.

497 CODE OF PROCEDURE

CRIMINAL LAW THE RITE OF FORMULA.
General: Mauritius Piccolotto, born on 15.12.1956 in Grosseto.

PROSECUTOR - DR. PUMPKIN

Q. - Dr. Piccoletto, she was in Genoa during the G8 summit in July 2001. You can specify which tasks
had?
ANSWER - On the occasion of the G8 Summit of 2001 I was aggregated along with other officials to
collaborate in the creation of law and order and then in several days I had various jobs waiting at the
head of all public services in different areas depending on the days . On the day of 21 for which I was
assigned essentially provided a barrier Corso Marconi in Piazza Rosselli, Rossetti, to prevent
potential troublemakers could proceed in the direction of the sea where the Fair was organized, say, a
citadel and that the police could gain access to Viale Partisan Brigade and then approach the center.
Basically start the day around mid morning and services during the first part nothing happened. At
about 13.00, 13:00 to 13:30 it began to form large masses that first began to address the deployment
target it at a distance and then the blunt instruments and more. I would like to point out that I had
initially available for these services one hundred elements of the State Police that were later
reinforced with other contingents to bring up the quota of the State Police two hundred items, and
even then the addition of a contingent of more than one hundred elements of the Guard Finance. This
aggression, say, was gradually becoming more violent, initially only stones, bottles, then even closer
by throwing firecrackers, paper bombs, incendiary objects, smoke and so on. The violence, however,
were not only against, say, the contingent of law enforcement, but this wave of violence began to
discharge even on vehicles that were parked in the area, and other containers, the scooter and was
created by a mob of these elements barricade on fire, with several cars on fire in the middle of the
road and some at a later time under the buildings, where among other things were also destroyed the
offices that were present.
Q. - I did not want them to describe all the events, because, say, although not directly related to the
known object of this process. I just wanted to know precisely the day in the afternoon, more
particularly of 21 where you say, displaced, where he was on duty at the time. She was already
describing the events that occurred and I guess he was referring to precisely the afternoon of day 21.
ANSWER - Yes, we were ...
Q. - So-called "big event", in short, the final event. So can precisely define, the place where she was
present, are those who described it?
ANSWER - They are the ones I described, exactly.
Q. - But, let's say ...
ANSWER - Among other things, are ...
Q. - At his command they were different people, different, what were the reference figures and officials
assisting it?
ANSWER - I assist officials were Dr. Capio, Dr. Guaglione Dr. Azzolini. I do not have the names of the
officers of the Guardia di Finanza, nor those of the commanders of contingents, departments,
however, framed by the appropriate checks can be easily identified. The officials who collaborated
with me to public order were the ones I have mentioned now and then because of the direction of the
service.
Q. - Of all the events and of which he had carried out her duties as a service has drawn up reports?
ANSWER - I have produced report that service in the evening then just left the police station ...
Q. - So the day July 21, 2001 she drew up a report ...
ANSWER - At the end of the day stilai in the offices of the Police Headquarters.
Q. - I ask you, now with the help ... if you recognize it, we can show please ...
ANSWER - Yes, that's my report.
QUESTION - can possibly hold it for a second? In this report, you mentioned some activities carried
out by Dr. Guaglione, which was just one of his collaborators in the field, as we said?
ANSWER - Yes, I I reported briefly in connection with an episode, say, here, occurred during the
afternoon, ie situations in which they were finally implemented led two movements, say, charging of
demonstrators took us about two hundred meters ahead compared to the situation, the position that
we had initially. In particular, it led to a contact with the fringes of the demonstrators troublemakers in
the upper part of the waterfront, I do not know the name has at that point, but still roughly at the baths
of Punta Vagno. And then agitated to contact the fringes of, say, troublemakers, etc., went away, that
is, reversed direction, moving away from us and we stood firm on the position for roughly a framework
of an hour - twenty minutes, something like that and then we were given the directive to return to the
starting positions. So the organization of the service made it necessary to go back another time, which
was to consider a large number of men and means to be set back, however, the presence of possible
activities say offensive. So we had to do a retreat that we call a chessboard, that is a party maintains
steady position while the other retreats. Then the part that had remained firm backs in turn, how can
we say, a path greater than that implemented by the previous year. It is a complex maneuver,
especially when behind a few hundred people there are dozens and dozens of vehicles and then
stretch for over one hundred meters in depth. So all this time was necessary. In the meantime, these
things were organized in which officers, staff, as it were, a little looking around. In this circumstance to
look among the things that were left there in the middle of the road in the bushes, etc., Dr. Guaglione
rinvenne something which showed me and it was a bag of nylon, a nylon bag containing the
expenditure of these two bottles you could see were two incendiary bottles, two bottles of wine, two
bottles of wine with a wick inserted into the neck of the bottle. I showed her and said, "Oh well - I say -
there is something about - say - even ..." as they say, the proof of what has happened, something that
has remained unused, here. So basically the fact not devoted very little attention, roughly these words
and went on my business, while the doctor held Guaglione these objects to deliver, deposit, etc., for
short, how can you say, then bring them. This episode, substantially in the maneuver that was a part
that we were making at the time took on a significance ... not even one thing was almost normal, I
would say, so he was devoted, at least on my part, special attention.
Q. - When he showed these bottles had just discovered, he told her where he had found?
ANSWER - I think ...
Q. - Or at least he had in his hand and told where he had found?
ANSWER - I am told, if I remember correctly, that I have found among the bushes, a flower bed. The
time I believe it was just a matter of moments, a few minutes before, in short, a very limited time I
think, because we were on site a total of half an hour, as I said, between (lots) for the initial setback
and maneuvers around half an hour. So in this context of time, not immediately say whether or half.
Roughly speaking, we stopped in that position to 18.00 and then the incident happened between
18.00 and 18.30.
Q. - Remember the point where you were when it was reported the discovery?
REPLY - But later in the report, helping a little 'with the map, we say, we gave as a reference point as
the Way of Long Gold Medals navigation, behold, but this looked on the map, because at the moment'
stored only thing was that there was a road on the left and the road has been identified on the map at
the time of the draw up the report.
Q. - You said that the bottles showed her. Can be explained when the ... in what way these bottles
have been shown, what was his vision. She said that his vision, if I have understood, was quite rapid.
ANSWER - Yes, quite quickly. Bag performed, here, maybe pull out, surely even a moment and pull
handle. But again I say, something from a few seconds, maybe a minute, a minute and say ... I mean
something very fast. Consider that in services, unfortunately, happen to have something to do with
such objects, and so it was not something that was very ... how can you tell? dangerous. If we had
found a hand grenade or something like that would ...
Q. - Can you say today in retrospect, I realize, do you remember of these bottles? We have a
description that she makes in her report.
REPLY - But basically I do not remember any additional detail, why there was no special attention,
were bottles of ...
Q. - Doctor, please know that must report to the Court that he knows nothing at the moment.
ANSWER - No, it knows nothing, meaning I do not remember ...
Q. - Neither of his report here.
ANSWER - Yes, compared to the report ...
Q. - I recognize I made the report because it could possibly help with this report.
ANSWER - Yes. I can confirm that the bottles were from three quarters to cylindrical pattern, so the
normal wine bottles, those bottles of wine, the most usually used for packaging of wine, here, the
cylindrical shape and is therefore not strange shapes, elongated, bulging or things like that. But with
regard to ... well, basically the shape of wine bottles is quite normal. With regard to labels there ...
well, almost a bottle can be recognized only by the labels and almost no attention devoted to indicate
where a brand instead of another, a form of advertising or other was not a detail that I caught at the
time and frankly, here, although I've been asked about this I had no longer remember precisely.
Q. - We speak of wine bottles and wine bottles in origin, but she has referred to as incendiary.
ANSWER - Here, incendiary bombs, in fact ...
Q. - So?
ANSWER - It is understood that the Molotov cocktails were in it was because there was a wad of the
liquid inserted into the neck of the bottle which partially protruded. And in short, is a common
experience for us. Sure, it might also be a simulated but when we find something like this and usually
we think immediately that this is a Molotov cocktail. Behold, I say, then later in the assessment could
say that what's inside, but when we see it we think it's already a Molotov cocktail at a glance.
Q. - There was something from which one could infer that the fluid was liquid Molotov cocktail, then
we say a flammable liquid?
ANSWER - Well, a form of odor was perceived in some way. Here, essentially ... but for us, in short,
how can you say, that knowledge that we have there is the least visually classified as such when it
presents certain external characteristics.
Q. - No, I say this because, I mean, she declares in its report "from two wine bottles filled with
flammable liquid with 0.75 firing wick", and flammable liquid, if you say this, maybe now
euphemistically said " a form of scent ", but anyway ...
ANSWER - Here ...
Q. - It was she who wrote a flammable liquid, so that is not ...
ANSWER - Yes, I wrote a flammable liquid, but I have certainly made an assessment to see if it
caught on fire, that's basically it. With roughly the smell, say, I have classified this way and I could also
have been inaccurate in the sense that an expert could establish that I was wrong. Let's say that in
relation when something happened in the immediate perception that refers to it has. I had, like,
verification tasks, because then one ... I was not, like, in charge to follow such things, I had the
management of public order.
Q. - Of course, Dr. Piccolotto, but I wonder what these bottles smelled. She puts "flammable liquid",
can also venture to qualify, to describe this smell?
ANSWER - Well, the smell was a smell of petrol, behold, a smell of petrol substance ... in short, what
bird that is the smell of gasoline, this of course.
Q. - You have been called during the investigations to recognize in particular by means of
photographs and pictures of Molotov cocktails in Genoa seized by the Police force was called to see if
he could recognize the bottle from her views on the occasion that reminds us, precisely , in the
photographs of all the Molotov cocktails in Genoa seized by the Police force. I would show them to
him.
ANSWER - Yes.
Questions - were shown these pictures among others. Go ahead.
Q. - Remember, these pictures were shown?
ANSWER - This is not ...
Q. - I apologize because there was a misunderstanding with ... We want to see the number 2, number
3 and number 4. Let's go back, we start from this. She was shown this picture. Go ahead please. And
this was shown and was shown this one. Go ahead please.
ANSWER - I think, perhaps mistaken, but I think that was also shown another in which there was a
pot-bellied bottle I said that was completely different kind from those I had seen. The first two are of
the type, in fact, I mentioned that I like and then the bottle of wine at regular cylindrical body and
elongated neck. Yes, the photographs seem to me the first two. This, perhaps the evil I do not know,
do not ...
QUESTION - can even come close, here, but as I say, I did see the pictures that were shown. Behold,
I have here his report and I want you to remember how to view these photographs, which are photos
of all the Molotov cocktails seized in Genoa, as she is oriented. Here, if you can follow this path. If not
then say what he said.
ANSWER - I said the first two pictures show the bottles that have the same shape, the same type as
those seen by me.
Q. - So you can identify in the bottles ...
ANSWER - They are definitely the same shape, are the same type.
Q. - You talked dell'innesco wick. It means something with respect all'innesco wick? Please, we can
show him the pictures?
ANSWER - Here, priming wick was something of cloth inserted in the ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Excuse me, excuse me a moment. Maybe I was distracted, but I have
already spoken, has never told the witness that the bottles that he had seen a graft wick?
Q. - Yes.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - You've already said?
PRESIDENT - You've already said several times, also called the wick and wad.
ANSWER - Yes, maybe wad is probably inappropriate.
PRESIDENT - Please.
ANSWER - So this was essentially firing a piece of cloth inserted into the neck of the bottle and
escaped from the same and there, behold, they perceived the smell of the substance.
Q. - Remember the color of stoppaggio, the wick?
ANSWER - It was clear, if I remember correctly, a light color. I do not know if white, brown, I would say
something clear.
Q. - Do you remember if he has seen in bottles under the conditions that decrypts us was there,
just ... you can bring please, I would ask if the courtesy, if you do not see well, here. Or that, say,
which is oriented in the opposite direction ... this is, of course not answer that did not ask for a
moment to look at the microphone.
Q. - I can say without influence, as we see all these bottles, the tops of these bottles is a coating of
cellophane and duct tape, right? We can agree on this?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you remember this kind of seal, locking in the bottles he has seen, on the occasion that he
was describing?
ANSWER - On this, perhaps my memories are not accurate, but I remember having stated that the
testimony given in the first moment I was shown the photographs I had the impression that they were,
like, finding that the Police Authority kept that have paid for, as you can tell, close them to prevent the
content evaporates. Behold, this was the impression I gained some when I saw for the first time the
photographs and this shall be recorded. Frankly, if the time they were found ... finding, not finding,
found, had already incellofanate I especially do not remember. I remember the smell of gasoline is
received and if it had been completely closed we could not hear. So if there was perhaps a little
'raised, but not particularly ... I do not ...
Q. - I do not remember, say, is not in its visual memory.
ANSWER - Yes, the smell that ranked, in short, there is something in the water and is not heard the
nose.
Q. - After the show was, she was able to see that the end did these bottles? That is, retained Dr.
Guaglione said something to her?
ANSWER - Dr. Guaglione, behold, they took him, as I said I was taken by the management of this
phase of retreat, which was rather complex and by having an official already in the hands and
between the elderly and even more valuable experience, not even the provide guidance on what to
do. Among other things, I say, when it runs a public service, as you can tell, it carries the title of official
ps and relative to the maintenance of law and therefore the issues that may be relevant to crimes
every officer or agent of the Judicial Police maintains his responsibility and thus against a colleague
that even if you lower but still has more seniority than me I do not ... and neither looked nor
appropriate to give more indications of what to do, let alone giving directions.
Q. - No, I said, has seen its ...
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Physically if Dr. Guaglione preserve or give, in turn, showed them to someone or someone?
ANSWER - No, here the atmosphere was quite large in that area, so ...
Q. - So when ...
ANSWER - I did not follow the movements and dynamics.
Q. - When she walks away Dr. Guaglione have showed that these bottles?
ANSWER - Yes, perhaps he was moving away, I was ...
Q. - Of course, he's right, he had said. However, when you leave, here ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes, they remained in the availability of Dr. Guaglione. Frankly, here, the move has
been done since and what did not immediately ...
Q. - On such occasions, this finding does this mean for the police officers?
RESPONSE - As with all tasks, in other words when you are in the presence of acts constituting
crimes follow the procedures laid down by the Code of Criminal Procedure, and then all the relative
activity.
Q. - Yes, I agree. But ...
ANSWER - The normal activities, here, clearly provides for a report, the seizure of the packaging
material evidence.
Q. - No, my question was tense ... maybe I have not done well understood. That this course follow the
statutory procedures, but Dr. Guaglione had that qualifies?
ANSWER - assistant chief added.
Q. - as a normal practice would have proceeded in person or ...
ANSWER - Well, the assistant chief added substantially ...
Q. - CEO, say, subordinate to ...
ANSWER - For the Armed Forces equivalent to Lieutenant Colonel, is a grade high enough, so
difficult, even if one maintains responsibility for the acts, just physically does the rest. This is a difficult
stretches relations and does everything by itself. It is usually somewhat cooperated.
Q. - So this could also delegate to subordinates looming.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, surely, here, which happens frequently say in the activities, says "you think, do"
etc. and then all the procedures, but also with the cooperation of elements in other grades.
Q. - She is part of the service, say, his service is terminated on the ground in the square, say?
ANSWER - Here, we return with the complex maneuver that I have mentioned before ...
Q. - I did not ask perhaps most important: finding the time remember?
ANSWER - As I have said is between 18.00 and 18.30, maybe more or less in the middle of this
range, but ... with a margin of variation of minutes, of course, because we were not just timing and
controlling the clock minute by minute . Between 18.00 and to 18.30 on average here. So we, here,
with all the quota backlog, is that Finance and the State Police back almost even further back than the
starting position, ie on the square in front of the Fair of the Sea. Later in the evening later, at about
half past seven, seven, seven and a half we paraded in front of, say, a long procession escorted by
police does not, mark it and then we implement the stock in this part of the procession, several
thousands of people to the station without incident, the train and at the end, after the departure of the
train, and then essentially re-enter all the steps in debt at the end we are set free. Roughly freely
around 20:00 to 20:30, something like that.
Q. - What do you do at this point?
ANSWER - I later port to the police station, contact with the office of Cabinet, a little bit, say, the
balance of the day and I was asked to produce a clear report, because the activities that had taken
place in the area were, say, relevant activities had resulted, in fact, the use of instruments of coercion,
then tear gas, some wounded, one thing and another, so here is a report on the events of the day.
Q. - Who is it that so requests, in particular remembrance of someone or had followed the practice
that follows?
ANSWER - No, I am asked, "Look - he says - that's an area, say, that was important today, requires a
report on the events that took place," here, because sometimes ...
Q. - No, no, but I asked by whom she was asked if he remembers.
ANSWER - This is reached by radio, in phone calls, no ... ... specifically from the cabinet. Now if,
however, was the deputy chief of staff, or, here, this ...
Q. - We see two names, maybe that is the chief of staff of Vice, just to introduce.
REPLY - But the deputy was Dr. Salvo, chief of staff's name escapes me at the time, but so is well
known ... and then I take, in fact, looking at offices in some way a computer where you can write the
report. I am given a room, I start writing, then appears at the end of ...
Q. - In what office she goes, what floor of the police, if you remember?
ANSWER - At the office of Cabinet. So I start to write the report, at this stage appears Dr. Guaglione
who had followed the return of quotas and ...
Q. - We did what time?
ANSWER - The time of the report?
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - Yes, indicatively around at 21.00, 21.30 start to write, behold, it was after 20:30 service,
20.30, 20.45 on the road, half an hour later, three quarters of an hour later I find myself, in fact,
roughly to the computer , so here, I said, at this stage while I was writing also appears Dr. Guaglione
and together, on the map, identify the point where we had arrived, because as I said operationally it
was not otherwise identified. So we identify on the map, as I said, that cross.
Q. - So Dr. Guaglione collaborated on the report with you?
ANSWER - Dr. Guaglione fits, say, that I had already written roughly half, a three-quarters. Behold, I
say, then, as it were, on the second page, I was already on the second page of the report that is
present, then says, "but also mentions the Molotov", normally, as it were, into relationships of services
and accidents do not enter so in detail, however, in short, all things considered, Molotov, etc., so I
mentioned in connection with the Molotov cocktail, as well as this also ...
Q. - I mean that the inclusion in the final part of his report of this discovery, as described, she did it at
the request, invitation, at the suggestion of Dr. Guaglione?
ANSWER - Yes, let's say there was, "but he reported it and Molotov cocktails?" "Ah well, we are now
in the final phase, all right, let's put" ... this was the hint. As I said in the report was also made, which
for public policy, has no particular significance, but the vehicle of our police, which was burned and
destroyed in that circumstance. In other words, after the part of the dynamics are then given the
facts ...
Q. - It seemed that Dr. Guaglione cared, we say, particularly the inclusion of this news, we say?
ANSWER - Well, yes, on this short, says: "Well, it says" and I basically a little 'to say "but it would be
something you should do more than you," I say in the overall picture, however, I also carry the special,
here, without understood that, behold, when it refers to a complex in general about the details a little
'more minutes are not directly represented by the head of the service, but if necessary from time to
time by the person who made the transaction, the single fact , the single ...
Q. - You asked, excuse me, Dr. Guaglione then if he had carried out acts within its competence as an
officer of the Judicial Police and asked something about the fate of Molotov cocktails?
REPLY - But listen, I after I did not ask anything, in the sense that I had no title, because Dr.
Guaglione ...
Q. - At that time I'm saying.
ANSWER - On that occasion he had come, and yet had done nothing at that time had not done
anything yet, because it was coming in the office while I was there. And he mentioned that he had,
say, delivered, delivery dates to an official who was ... that is, that it had been in place, not that he
was, but that was over there with a car service.
Q. - What?
ANSWER - Dr. Donnini who is an official in that circumstance had the tasks of coordination and
supervision say about the use of departments.
Q. - So said Dr. Guaglione what had happened to the Molotov cocktail, that said, if I have understood,
that he delivered to an official.
ANSWER - I mention this particular course.
Q. - So they were no longer in its availability.
ANSWER - Apparently not.
Q. - he returned, say, without the bag.
ANSWER - This was what I said, exactly ...
Q. - No, I guess she saw him.
ANSWER - No, I do not see there was certainly nothing in the office, here, I can confirm this, of
course, had absolutely nothing in the office.
Q. - And he made a correlation between the fact that he was no longer available in bottles and its
request to include in its written ...
REPLY - He hinted at this, to bring the bottles into a relationship. Now from the outset that, as it were,
in each of the services there are bands of responsibility, so I ...
Q. - Okay, this is clear.
ANSWER - It is clear, is not it?
QUESTION - The question is what happened in fact.
ANSWER - I told him: "Look, for the operational part of your do what you gotta do."
Q. - Of course, I mean, there are practices and there are duties ...
ANSWER - A hint, I said to him: "Look - I say - I write this, are these three, four lines, not by more
especially, and you do what you gotta do to the whole dynamic," because otherwise, I know, we had
the car burned, we had several things, if I went into detail about many things this relationship would
become a book, because even burned a car ...
Q. - No, but I'm sorry, I want to follow what she said, and his reasoning, if not misunderstood. As she
said it was Dr. Guaglione to ask or suggest that you insert the circumstances of the discovery of the
bottles in his report that he had, if I have understood more, broader content, no description, especially
the aspects of public policy . Then came the initiative of Dr. Guaglione this entry. I then asked if we
kept particularly the inclusion of this report and she said "yes of course". So I then asked if Dr.
Guaglione informed her about the fate of these bottles and she told me that these bottles were
delivered by him to an official, in particular to Mr. Donnini. Very well. So I said, so Dr. Guaglione no
longer had the availability of the bottles? Then there is a correlation or a correlation was made
between the fact that he no longer had the bottles and then could not imagine doing any more
relevant act to those bottles, that is a record of seizure, and then somehow asked to mention his
remarks in the report's content more widely.
ANSWER - Well, the reasons could be these and other, in the sense that the good work of an officer
in service of public policy comes out on many things, so the operational side, the side, here, too, as
you can say, the completeness of the search for any items ...
Q. - Doctor, do not ask to play, I ask only tell if something is explained historically. If so good, if not ...
ANSWER - As I said I was asked to report the details, in fact, the discovery of the bottles in that
circumstance.
Q. - You said something or is informed of the fact that it was made explicit, that the bottles he had
given over to an official, she says Dr. Donnini and Mr. Donnini is a grade rather high. That Dr.
Guaglione is a Lieutenant Colonel, an assistant chief added, Dr. Donnini ...
ANSWER - It was a senior executive, senior executive and then it was two degrees above. Here, I
asked here is basically "What have you done, to those who have delivered" or perhaps it was he who
told me spontaneously. Anyway, this particular came out that had been delivered to Mr. Donnini.
Q. - You asked Dr. Guaglione to enter this particular report?
ANSWER - Well if I remember he asked. But I said, "Look, I quote the salient details, do not go into
details of individual episodes more stringent" because, I repeat, then, how could I say, two Molotov
cocktails were not a problem for us, on the contrary was a certain problem the machine in question,
because, well, no ... I mean working in a certain way maybe we could ...
Q. - But Dr. Guaglione churches ...
ANSWER - My attention was on things other than on that, then I say do not go into detail on one side
and the other does not go into details. This is the concept that gave me my ...
Q. - Lightest. But she confirmed that Dr. Guaglione churches ...
ANSWER - It would, yes, I mentioned that I wanted a ... a handover, and which I competed exquisitely
thing to him, here, for instance. How, back to say, I was more worried about the car burned at the
time, here, perhaps leaving more exposed the officer had in custody.
Q. - I'm sorry, this request of Dr. Guaglione further, namely to put even this delivery and then the loss
of availability of Molotov cocktails for its part, the request to include in the report in the concrete
circumstances it seemed an object of concern of Dr. Guaglione?
PRESIDENT - "Appeared" seems a bit '... Did you notice something specific?
Q. - Did he explained the reason to be worried or ...
ANSWER - No, worry not, because I think he could easily get to a computer and write and report the
facts, to a certain extent with the functions that each of us plays and report the facts. Then in the
dynamics could, like, have happened, but not written a passage which you can easily tell because the
dynamics of excited sometimes made some steps may not happen so formally as expected, but the
fact remains, and to relate and report the event, in short, the historical fact helps to determine the
framework in which the events are determined. So it was purely a matter of his and I told him also,
say, in clear terms, about the responsibility of so ...
Q. - More or less remembers the time when she ended the relationship to stretch?
ANSWER - You went a little long for me because when I finished I discovered that the computer
where I was writing was not equipped with a printer. Hence the need to find a diskette, copy diskette,
go to another computer with printer and so on transfer. At this stage the relationship substantially hat
disappeared, apparently for a typing error, so I had to rewrite it completely within another period of
another half an hour, an hour, so after having left the police station that was lying close to midnight ,
eleven, and the unique ... yes, perhaps almost midnight here.
Q. - So in the meantime ...
ANSWER - I then printed in an office other than that, of different computer after it had to rewrite a
second time.
Q. - And remember what the office has printed?
ANSWER - The office no, but it was, say, on the opposite side of the hallway is a room not in front but
on the other side, just before than where it is ... always in the plane toilet.
Q. - At that time there were many police officers?
ANSWER - When I left ... there was little or nothing, in short, was essentially empty, then it was so
late an hour.
Q. - While she was in the offices of the police has got to know what was going on, was preparing a
major operation which involved the use of means and men?
ANSWER - Well, there was a time when I was asked if I could take over another service. Frankly,
considering the use that had occurred, whereas I was still writing said .. consider that the afternoon
had been busy, I had worked with the gas mask for four and a half hours with a physical effort that is
not easily described. And then I said that probably in the whole, say, the human resources available
might have been looking for a minimum even found an official who was not available or maybe just
say ... that was not committed in the course of the day, behold, Then ... then I do not know what ...
Q. - I'm sorry, I want to know when this happened as timing?
ANSWER - It was, say, late evening, here, late evening. The time is not ...
Q. - Who is this willingness that the churches?
ANSWER - If I remember correctly it was the doctor unless the Cabinet, Deputy Head seems to me
that at the time was deputy chief of staff.
Q. - He explained what it was in particular this service?
ANSWER - I was told it was out of personal or went out or came out of staff, in short, there was need
for an official that would run the public service. This ...
Q. - He gave her a description, in short, a complex operation ... Then he learned that was complex?
ANSWER - No, frankly ... no, I was asked for the availability, I was asked to availability and at that
time ... well ...
Q. - Since the availability request she understood what were the characteristics of the service?
ANSWER - That was an operation, say, a great roundup of searches, maybe something like that,
because now there were no more parades. As I said I was returned after the last or perhaps one of
the last groups, I do not think the absolute last, but certainly one of the last group had started, so
there were no further clashes. Keep in mind that the circulation of news was that it was not any
official, and unless aggregated hands, could have a picture of the situation of the city, that was an
existing framework in the Operations Center where they were then taken at the level of decisions
cabinet and any official ...
Q. - Yes, but I'm sorry, in the time that you described now, around midnight, we say, however, between
ten and a half ...
ANSWER - It is around midnight when I finished the report.
Q. - So is history but a series of preparations, in short, not many men who move in two minutes, then I
ask this preparation, here, inside the offices of the police as it was lived here, what is the context this
request to you. That's it.
ANSWER - I'm sorry, just the preparatory work is completely unknown to me because I did not notice
in the office, keep in mind we were in the toilet, I noticed no movement, no crowd of officials and not,
as you can tell, hasty exits, so where were the decisions taken and strategies I have not known.
Q. - If you had said that it was prepared I would have to take what task?
ANSWER - The direction of public order, so I was wondering if I was willing to assume, as you can
tell, the direction of a service but no other details. It is not ...
Q. - But in particular would have availabilities in which departments?
REPLY - But there was absolutely no indication of who would work, or the ...
Q. - No, excuse me, perhaps I have not explained. In relation to his rank, his qualifications, his duties
if she left that she would have the type of units available?
ANSWER - Hard to imagine, but I was still a first officer and first officer, so the first directors are
usually responsible for the sector as it took. Sometimes the field is one, then sometimes they are
responsible for the whole service. Other times the service, a service is very complex split into three,
four fields and then becomes a first officer in charge of a certain area which may be a few hundred
meters or even kilometers of trails that are developed.
Q. - on that evening she had relations with Mr. Donnini?
ANSWER - No, absolutely.
Q. - He met the police station?
ANSWER - No way.
Q. - Let's say, contacts, information in relation to this operation so they had only hinted at with Dr.
Salvo?
REPLY - But again I say it was by no means a contact that contained information about the operation.
I was only asked to say how extremely general willingness to take over another service, which I was
not physically possible, and because I had not even finished the reference section.
Q. - And Dr. Donnini Italy in the course of, say, in the circumstances of the discovery of Molotov she
had met him?
ANSWER - Dr. Donnini arrived on the spot when we were still at that stage I said after contact with the
protesters, arrived on site together with the commissioner and then I do not know, surely with a driver,
maybe two, behold, I say, in that circumstance came the Questor, Mr. Donnini and then they stayed at
least at that time because not much went on, for overtaking, as you can tell, go and look directly in a
visual way, behold, visually directed what happened later, because of the ... fringes, say, that before
we had faced in moving back had resulted in accidents and others ... so I guess you have other
contacts with law enforcement and then other fights, other interventions. We remained in place while,
as I said, this machine that was precisely the commissioner is also brought forward on the way to go
and check what was going on, or at least that's what ...
Q. - What time so she left the police station that night?
RESPONSE - As a guide around midnight.
Q. - Dr. Guaglione was with her?
ANSWER - No, no, it was already gone on for some time. I do not know when, behold, if to relate to
other activities to do so. I went away with my driver and I remember we had a day without eating and
looked for a place to eat, soup kitchens were closed and police ate late at night with even a canteen
inside the citadel of the Carabinieri, who we found something cold and we did eat and ate around half
past midnight, something like that.
Q. - The day after she served?
ANSWER - The next day was the day of, say, ... say, welcome meeting, here, so basically we were
still at the disposal of ... of Police of Genoa, Genoa, and the commissioner was carried out in the
afternoon a meeting with all present officials took place in which substantially thanks, greetings and so
on.
Q. - He had a way of seeing the press conference that was set up at police headquarters?
ANSWER - No, because among other things, as I said, I returned late at night, I slept the night before
a three, four hours, because the time of the services overlapped, then we had to document a bit 'on
the activities of next day, so I had slept the night before a three-hour working the way you have
described and ending late. Among other things, I was staying in the west, now the town's name
escapes me, however, is still used against Genoa ... another half hour of time to arrive and then the
time available was limited to rest, so ...
Q. - Well, what I wanted to know was ...
ANSWER - I was not in the morning at police headquarters, here.
Q. - You had no way to see even on TV, say, the ...
ANSWER - No, clearly print the following days I followed her and then I read a bit '.
Q. - He had a way of seeing pictures of the items seized in the operation Diaz?
REPLY - But it seems that the press in the days following publication of the images but images do not
print ... behold, I say, not very detailed and ...
Q. - So it was able to see photos of, say, bottles?
ANSWER - No, absolutely picture in any way.
Q. - I mean the bottles seized in the operation?
ANSWER - No, no.
PROSECUTOR - I would not have any other questions for the moment. Thank you.

DEFENSE - MR. Di Bugno

Q. - Doctor, come back for a moment on the fact of the bottles. I want to describe more precisely the
time when the bottles you see what happens? That is the moment to see them when she sees them
more. Those who shows Guaglione.
ANSWER - The ones that show me Guaglione.
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - Well, basically there's not much to add.
Q. - You said before that he handled. Then I ask: has the pull out of the bag?
ANSWER - No, it seems to me that the doctor had pulled out of me and perhaps will have changed
hands, the smell certainly I have also taken in hand, but this is more than I gather to remember
physically and visually.
Q. - But she remembers seeing the bottles ...
ANSWER - The smell, the smell that he felt that yes.
Q. - But she remembers seeing the bottles out of the bag?
ANSWER - ... look, just like visual memory frankly I can not recreate the image but ... well, I say, the
view from the bag that is sharper in hand ... frankly no, but certainly to bring the nose must have been
taken in hand ...
Q. - O approached the bag. Why remember ...
ANSWER - I do not know. That's not easy for me to be more precise, not because they really do not
want.
Q. - But these my questions ...
ANSWER - I go more deductions than to remember.
Q. - Precisely, in order to help them remember and understand, even on what my questions are
encouraged to read the statement she released in Florence.
ANSWER - Florence, yes, I have heard for the first time in Florence.
Q. - This is the summary information for the Court of 14 June 2002 13.30, summary information is
released, I think, for letters rogatory to the prosecutor of Florence. The question of the prosecutor:
"Say if you recognize the bottles" and shows her bottles, she says, "Precise seen that" speaking of
words sorry ... Piccolotto bottles, the bottles that she has seen ...
ANSWER - The Guaglione.
Q. - Of Guaglione, "I saw the clear bottles only from above," only from ...
ANSWER - For behold, this is my recollection.
Q. - "Looking at that in a bag and then I did not notice the bottle labels." The same statement she
makes, I would say similar statement, the report makes the following summary information from
witnesses that is rather in front of the Prosecutor of Genoa, in front of Dr. Zucca. The p.m. asks her if
she saw the bottles, has shown them to him he asks if Dr. Guaglione ... and she says PM says: "The
bottles were inside a shell" she says, "I was shown inside a bag, then if this is clearly not there
before ..." and on page 5 more of the same statements before Dr. Zucca on 1 July 2002 the
prosecutor asked: "In college in Florence she says" I have seen only from bottles, ie looking inside a
bag and then I did not notice the labels. " That brings them back to the sentence he would say.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - "That is what it means? That has not taken, that he only looked inside? "She says," I seem to
remember it. But again I say the memories are very blurred. " Here, now that I reread the statements
you made at the time what you remember? These stimulate the memory on the fact that she has
removed from the bag or not?
ANSWER - Look, the memory was definitely cooler, in fact, at the time of the depositions that had just
one year after the fact, now there are about five more than the past when I've been heard and
certainly the memory was fresher then.
Q. - I ask you ...
ANSWER - I mean, I remember that ...
Q. - You have a memory ...
ANSWER - I mean I can review them mentally as seen from the bag. This is an image I have. The
rest of them eh I do not have an image in memory.
Q. - So let's say I remember her as owner has only the memory of the bag ...
RESPONSE - In the bag, the bag of bottles.
Q. - This means that you only remember the bottle, say, from the neck up?
ANSWER - Yes, with projection from above.
Q. - So the shape ...
ANSWER - The shape and the wad on top and neck of the bottle and then then the cylindrical shape
of the bottle.
Q. - You have noticed if there were any labels?
ANSWER - Something was there, but ... how to say, the logo, images, etc., there was something you
could see there was the card attached, which are the normal labels on the bottles. But, I repeat, I
have not had a chance to look at these labels.
Q. - They were around the necks of these bottles a protective cellophane and secured with scotch
tape ...?
ANSWER - Here, on this ... I mentioned earlier. Frankly, the detail is sharp because I do not, and said
second verbalization, even looking at pictures I had been convinced that finding by the Judicial Police,
here, that finding had been that way. So if this was so ... I'm not particularly impressed.
Q. - She denies ever having seen them with ... as well as the bottles are displayed in Florence? I'm
always talking about the bottles that showed Guaglione.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do not you look at that picture, we talk about those. She denies that the bottles showed that this
had Guaglione cellophane? Okay? And the tape many times over ... I want them to him if you
remember, but I must point out that they are well ... I'm ready, indeed, if it wants to stimulate the
memory to remind you, are five times when you say with certainty that they had or cellophane and
duct tape. If you want to repeat it for the Court, the Court because they tell me many times as you say,
if he thinks I can be challenging from time to time. For the reference of the Public Ministry is on page
7, page 8, page 22, page 40 ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - No, no, I present well its assessment, the certainty ...
Q. - So it is a problem evaluation ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - I have no opposition on this.
Q. - Now we hear ...
PRESIDENT - Let's hear what the witness says.
Q. - I did it to please tell the prosecutor the pages, that's all.
ANSWER - Now, an absolute certainty I would not express it because the memory is not so clear. I
confirm that I have said in depositions, that covering the photographs I had the impression that this
nylon above had been placed as a relic. So that's the impression I had when I saw the photographs.
But again I say that those pictures in the end after a year I renewed a tradition for me something
which was briefly caught in an operation that was surely more complex and that these bottles, as you
can tell, there were a especially do not say completely negligible but certainly by no means essential.
So the attention that his time in that brief period when I observed those things was that attention was
not, say, pushed to the maximum to grasp the particular, and otherwise if we had attached particular
importance to both the Dr. Guaglione, maybe I, maybe we would perhaps other staff, as it were, we
would have signed. I do not know if I give the idea, sometimes the bodies of crime, special things are
even signed, in other words.
Q. - But you, apart from this argument then is the reasoning that followed even during the preliminary
investigation to answer the question I'm asking here, as so far the prosecution has done, what she
remembers your heart, without thinking, she remembers? I look at it, I read what he refers on page
63. It is always the summary information made before the Public Prosecutor's Office on the 1st of July
2002. Do the same, the talk of the statements you made in Florence, no, the reference quell'avverbio
course at some point and she says: "And 'evident in the verbalization was inserted quell'ovviamente
but I did not say of course I said I remembered that in those circumstances without nylon and no tape.
"
ANSWER - Basically, my mind was the memory, so hence the inference that perhaps the nylon was ...

Q. - But what is his memory? She basically said we have seen them from the bottles, right? Then he
said he looked inside the bag and so on.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So you saw the item is just the end part of the thing.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - The memory of what it is?
ANSWER - My memories ...
Q. - What is your memory?
ANSWER - I repeat can not now be clearer then, allow me. If then I have at the moment, but thinking
well, I had this impression, it is a sign that the visual certainty at that time I had, I could not capture the
image, but I have no memory of the opposite type, ie I do not remember seeing the nylon above.
Q. - This question made it to him after that showed photographs of the bottles found at the first or
Diaz? That is, they did describe, if you remember, the bottles that had seen her before or after
showing her the bottles of Diaz?
ANSWER - Now the dynamic seems to me that ... ...
Q. - If you want I can help.
ANSWER - I have been asked to know ... but I speak in Florence, the time that I have been heard
here in Genoa PM This ... by p.m. present, say, a deposition was much more articulate, more
protracted in time ...
Q. - First photos of Diaz? Is it possible?
RESPONSE - In Florence, it seems to me that they are the first pictures in Florence.
Q. - First photos of Diaz.
ANSWER - I think. Here, I would not be ...
PRESIDENT - I apologize, it's a given in the minutes, the chronological sequence is recorded. I think
the opposite. That is, before he gives a description and then displays the photos. Dr. Luke Turkish
Florence ...
Q. - I've already made before the dispute, when it responds to Dr. Turkish, "Answer: I've seen clear
from looking at the bottles in a bag and then I did not notice the label of the bottle" is the fact after the
question is "tell us if it recognizes the Molotov cocktails mentioned in his report and in those" ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - Excuse me a lawyer, I have to contest it. So I ask that the President read
the minutes, because the first question is the question asking you to describe the bottles, the second
question is "tell if it recognizes the two bottles mentioned in the report referred to in those pictures"
and so forth, I seem to understand it differently, but the President may have the minutes.
PRESIDENT - Let the record.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - I do not know, but if the lawyer had earlier said they did see the photos ...
QUESTION - The question is simple, I wanted to ...
INTERVENTION - (Off microphone)
PRESIDENT - I'm sorry ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - Masha But sir, I ...
PRESIDENT - I keep saying to avoid these conversations between the parties. there has been
opposition from the public prosecutor who said that the first question asked the witness was to
describe the Molotov cocktails. It is so or not? I do not have the minutes so I can not say. Since the
question was about the chronological sequence chronological succession and you can see from this
very well.
Q. - I have made a complaint, the President, the prosecutor makes him see the minutes, when he has
the ability to insert new questions what he believes ...
PRESIDENT - No lawyer, no.
Q. - I have made a complaint ...
PRESIDENT - The question of whether his concerns something that we must ensure it does not
correspond to the minutes. So on the minutes because there is a question, "Tell it acknowledges the
relationship."
Q. - I have objected to the second answer ... the third response, I have already challenged the very
beginning, is the only thing that I objected to that statement, can not know the witness here. I objected
and I said "I insist that I have seen only from bottles," I wonder if this description he has given, and
that is the only one I challenged the diagnosis or not after the photographs are shown .
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - I'm allowed to say that the first question that makes the Turkish public
prosecutor Dr. ...
Q. - I'd already ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - There is a description of the bottles ...
Q. - And if I can do this, Mr. President, why do not I wish it was highlighting a possible impropriety of
Defense, I do that when I first questioned early this occasion I also reported the application and stated
that had already been made to see photographs.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - No lawyer is not an impropriety. I simply say that to me is also in question,
so you have to determine if she controesamina or examine, a witness is quoted directly from her, so it
may be suggestive, some questions may suggest.
Q. - But is quoted directly from her first, the prosecutor, she introduced the circumstances ...
PRESIDENT - Let's finish this speech. Then ...
Q. - I will have cross-examination.
PRESIDENT - From what we read from the record it appears that a description of the bottles was
made before the application.
Q. - And in fact ...
PRESIDENT - If it finds the bottles.
Q. - Now I came to do.
PRESIDENT - You have to see if it even before it had been shown photographs or not. This we must
say the witness.
Q. - For now we arrive at the question.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - President, however, the record seems to me that on the contrary, eh.
PRESIDENT - The minutes did not say anything if they were present before and after photos. It simply
tells a question before, but ... "says it acknowledges" ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - Well, there's no sense verbalization.
PRESIDENT - We ask the witness if she remembered of course, if the first were shown photos of the
bottles and after it has responded.
REPLY - But my memories of this stage are not so precise, verbalization and as I think I signed when
I signed, say, a history to match the rapidly flowing, say, the events that have taken place, here .
PRESIDENT - The point is that this report ...
ANSWER - It is said the first is definitely that way. Why not ...
PRESIDENT - No, but from that report may be that the photographs she has seen before or after?
And from this report could be the same, nothing changes in the minutes. Because she is a description
but it may also have shown that the photographs without writing the report.
ANSWER - No, I do not remember, as you can say, nothing casual here, I do not remember anything
casual.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - Mr President, if you can help, Mr. President ...
Q. - Can I do ...
PRESIDENT - We continue ...
Q. - President, excuse me, this was precisely the question that I wanted to do before he showed them
to him ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - But I would like to help you understand where, why I would ...
PRESIDENT - We follow the order of things, was interviewing.
Q. - Before the show the photos, then I demand, you were asked to describe the bottles ...? Read it to
him now the President.
ANSWER - If I remember correctly, in fact, I was first asked about the report and the mention of the
bottles and bottles and then the description of the ... exhibition of photographs.
Q. - Here again I remind you that when they did, they asked the simple description of the bottles she
reported as characteristics of the bottles, "there were two bottles of wine with normal priming wick."
So she had reported that this coverage.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. I always visually present this image.
Q. - So the problem, the problem, the question of whether or not they were covered in a certain way
and then served, in fact ...
ANSWER - It is following the vision of ...
Q. - It is next to the vision of the bottles.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - At first she asked "we describe the bottles of course Italy," and she says "I'm with the wick."
REPLY - And I expressed with a comment ...
APPLICATION - Point. That are not added without cellophane, says what he remembers. Is that it?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Then they review the bottles that have seized the Diaz and after that starts the question, whether
or not the memory on the cellophane, right?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - It is so good. They never did see the bottles? She has never seen the bottles? That recognition is
based only on photographs?
ANSWER - Only photographs, only photographs.
Q. - You said before that he remembers the color of the wick that ... it seems that the color of the wick
of one of the bottles he had seen in photographs, no, it was similar to that seen in Italy Course.
ANSWER - Something clear, again I say something ... to clear.
Q. - If the prosecutor can, if I put a picture of the bottles. If I can tell between the two which is what
she says ... she has seen these photographs, the find has never seen the original.
ANSWER - No, I have not seen specimens.
Q. - So are all his evaluations on the photographs.
ANSWER - Only on photography.
Q. - So, if you tell me ...
ANSWER - This is the color clear enough.
Q. - They are both light-colored interior?
ANSWER - I think that here is clear.
Q. - You will see there is good light.
ANSWER - (Off microphone)
Q. - That further to the right, thank you, you sit down.
ANSWER - The bottle has a lower wick lighter color, the memory of mine is something clear, here.
Q. - On the bottles I make the last question. What these bottles that remind her of the bottles showed
Guaglione? What are the special features? The shape?
ANSWER - The shape, the presence of a wick. Basically we have no other elements.
Q. - I mean you see two similar features, the shape and the wick. Is that it?
ANSWER - Basically, these are ..., on the other hand in a bottle, it ... Unless it is an extremely special.

Q. - I mean the bottles that she saw had the same shape and a wick.
ANSWER - Absolutely.
Q. - I wanted to go to a second condition related to the intervention of Guaglione during the
preparation of the report. She is certain of this intervention?
ANSWER - That is certainly in the sense that while I was there and I was writing has passed, we
exchanged a few words, I have mentioned this particular course, yes.
Q. - Do you remember, and it is also certain that Dr. Donnini Guaglione alluded to the delivery of the
bottles?
ANSWER - Yes, so ... I do not remember the exact words, but I was told that this passage, that is, the
more he had not because he had delivered this is something that was presented in the interview,
expressed in a way that I ... , in fact, I remember, I remember clearly.
Q. - Look, during the summary information always released before the Public Prosecutor's Office and
then on the 1st July 2002. She repeatedly claims not to remember this fact.
ANSWER - Give a few to this fact that, as it were, were also episodes that were forgotten over time
and ...
Q. - What episode, I'm sorry?
ANSWER - That the details of the events ...
Q. - That is the circumstance in which I want to be clear on this ... on which I'm asking is this, I'll
explain it ...
ANSWER - The part of this delivery ...
Q. - No, no. Because the phase of delivery as I understand she has not seen it. But here is the only
problem that arises is whether Guaglione gliel'abbia reported. She said the prosecutors, said he
remembers that Guaglione was present and that seems to have reported that this circumstance. I say,
always make it clear, I mean, why do you possibly enlighten us then, that in the course of an interview
he granted to the Public Ministry on 1 July 2002, she has stated many times not to forget this fact and
ending at the end interrogation, the interrogation at the end of this thesis.
ANSWER - Yes, we say that the fact was then slowly focus during the second interrogation took place
here in Genoa.
Q. - What is this. But in this second interview she claims not to remember this occasion forever.
ANSWER - Well, but in a protracted period of several hours focusing on the events of that day, on the
steps and everything else has been slowly, how can I say, somewhat reformed 'an overview of where,
how to say, some cards, say, you are a little more clear, in other words.
Q. - Do you remember if this was just clearing the memory due to the reading of statements made by
other people about?
ANSWER - especially not now. But, you know, that all the steps of that day were, say, not only fully
detailed, but gradually also emerged from these memories in a way you felt, and collaboration with
officials, the development of operations and the rest gradually plan has resulted in a whole set of
memories.
Q. - Perhaps I have explained myself badly. She did that in the interrogation before the public
prosecutor, if he wants to read, watch, one of the moments, because there are some 'of those
moments in which she has said that the rule ... that Guaglione has asked to enter a some particular
within the relationship. Page 53 "PM: my colleague asked ... no, but this being so, I do not remember
who has applied to enter. Maybe he did, believing that what the juice to represent (Unintelligible) "so it
does not here deny that there is this memory ...
ANSWER - Initially, the memory was not clear precisely, did not emerge.
Q. - But this circumstance she freezes on page 53, even on page 43 she says she does not even
remember if it was Guaglione. "Witness: I do not do as I say, I do not even remember if it was there."
ANSWER - Well, now the phrase may be, as it were, out so clearly ... and he was there because the
service was a service they were doing together, so there meant a meter on this side, one meter away,
but definitely in the area was, in short, say the theater where opera was a scene of ... who saw this
staff concentrated in an area of a width of about thirty or forty meters with a depth of about fifty, a
hundred meters, that's, I remember. And there were the officials came and went, then at a time could
be next to me, ten minutes later could be away for half an hour.
Q. - But you this ...
ANSWER - Guaglione worked with me that day.
Q. - This is the point. But she remembers it clearly, or is likely just the fact that Guaglione has asked
to enter the data and that has reported this information? Because you see, here too you, I understand,
I'm making a logical argument, that tells me "if he was there on the theater, so it is ..." I wonder what,
as I said before ...
REPLY - But on-site operational ...
Q. - You answer me like that, you think when the report does. I want to know this, when does the next
report Guaglione. She remembers that Guaglione has said that the bottles and took them Donnini
asked to enter it? This, you look at that occasion. That given there history, because it is true that then
she has rebuilt all through a logical path ... let's say a certain type of response. But that's what I want
to know today what the Court is interested in his memory at the time. If you remember.
ANSWER - So Dr. Guaglione returned to the offices of the police when I was stretching out his report
and I was already a bit ahead with the report. Speaking a little of the dynamics mentioned this aspect
of Molotov cocktails to be included in a short report and basically I made him understand that his was
impending. However in the overall context of relationship I made a special mention that, I say again as
I said before, who were, like, when not particularly relevant in relation to the operations ...
Q. - And the detail was that he would deliver the bottles?
ANSWER - What to say ... ...
Q. - That said, Donnini, Donnini made her name during intercourse?
ANSWER - he mentioned. Now not so much the person was a bit 'generic, perhaps a reference to Mr.
Donnini, but it could perhaps mean the driver, who was with Dr. Donnini, in short, as a group, no ... not
a precise reference, punctual, how to say , like verbalization, here is a something so informal,
occasional say during the service. This perception was, in short, the memory, say, the words
expressed.
Q. - So a reference to Donnini, but then what was the actual relationship between the two not
specified. Is that it?
ANSWER - This, yes, basically this is it.
Q. - Well.
ANSWER - That is not particular sharper and more detailed.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - I finished, President.

DEFENSE - MR. ROMANELLI -

Q. - Just one question, more on this topic. I wanted to ask the head during interrogation 13 July 1998
made this statement to deliver the bottles to Mr. Donnini was requested several times and repeatedly
and insistently by the prosecutor?
ANSWER - I'm sorry?
Q. - She was asked ...
ANSWER - No, I thought Dr. Guaglione, behold, I was mentally trying to remember.
Q. - No, actually the fact that Guaglione of Mr. Donnini has reported, was a question that was made
repeatedly, she was asked repeatedly. I remember her at the first request, at least as reflected in the
minutes, she said ... and really had an answer that already came an insistent demand, "Now I
remember best. Perhaps Dr. Guaglione told me that he handed the bottle to someone but I do not
remember the name. " So to say that even before she was asked repeatedly if Guaglione told that
they had been delivered or not. She responds with "I do not remember the name." After this statement
the prosecutor insisted yet again to find this name or not?
ANSWER - I was urged to try to remember ... well, let's say ...
Q. - That she was also solicited memories in the form suggestive?
ANSWER - No, no. Suggestive not.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - The Public Ministry is opposed to this question.
PRESIDENT - Welcoming the exception. It was stressed several times.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - "I was asked."
Q. - President, can I read made by the prosecutor? So let's see if it is attractive or not? "Question, but
the name that is made by Dr. Guaglione is unusual because it is not the name of a single agent or
operator of a service but of a superior, so it seems likely that she does not remember." I remember the
Court is not a way to ask a question quite striking and insistent?
PRESIDENT - Everyone will then decide when it will be the decision.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - What is the question?
PRESIDENT - I would like to know what the question asked the witness.
QUESTION - The question is: was placed in this form? That she was pressed?
ANSWER - I say definitely is that verbalization, but not, in short, is not that we are mesmerized when
we talk about people who have a degree higher than ours, because well ...
Q. - No, no, but I'm not talking about the degree of suggestion, I'm talking about the way the question
is asked.
ANSWER - No, no, I have not heard ... here sucks, I have not been influenced, I can safely say this.
Q. - after this speech she says, "Now maybe I did indeed remember the name of a superior and
should be ...
ANSWER - It is the discourse that has tripped the mechanism that explained the memories, because
while it does not contain any indication to think but to a higher grade and so on, then lighten the
memories made. This is, certainly ... but not a suggestion.
Q. - So there was a persistent identification, right?
ANSWER - The emphasis in the way the repetition of the question, there was no doubt, but not
suggesting the answer or suggestion.
Q. - When you remember that this answer was asked by the prosecutor if this depended on the
degree of his hesitancy Mr. Donnini?
REPLY - The question in particular do not remember it, but again I say it was a matter of degree or
degrees, was that the events were covered a little bit a 'from a film and were not perfectly clear and as
the memories As always happens when you focus more on a topic, you are revived.
Q. - Yes, but the question that I do is that you remember having said it should be, the prosecutor
made her a specific question and said "his hesitancy in making the name depends on whether it was
a superior" remember or not remember?
REPLY - The question I was asked, of course. But the hesitancy was not that was related to the set of
their own memories at that time were not as sharp.
Q. - Do you remember how you justified ... justified the fact that he had not remembered this name?
REPLY - But again I say a little time.
Q. - The name of the episode?
ANSWER - A little time and a little bit the same size of the episode for us was not entirely relevant, I
had a little 'relegated among those things that we live, how you can tell, is stored in a manner not so
precise and so clean as, vice versa, is made for us affect, in particular, to which we attach particular
importance from the beginning.
Q. - You do not remember saying instead that it is unusual for an executive level Donnini take care of
physical evidence?
ANSWER - Okay, this, if I have to respond to the fact that it is usual or unusual to confirm it today. All
in all, it is unlikely that having high degrees ...
Q. - Do you remember saying it even then?
ANSWER - Sure it is certainly verbalized, now ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - Thanks, I have finished.
CHAIRMAN - Are there other questions from the defense? There was some clarification from the
Prosecution?
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - No, I would say it is outdated. I wanted to speak on the issue of history.
PRESIDENT - If nothing else so we can dismiss the heads.
Once all the questions, the witness is dismissed.

DEPOSITION OF WITNESS - DONNINI VALERIO -

THE WITNESS, AMMONIUM IN ACCORDANCE WITH ART. 497 CODE OF PROCEDURE
CRIMINAL LAW THE RITE OF FORMULA.
General: senior executive of the State Police Valerio Donnini, born on 17.06.1946 in Asmara.

PROSECUTOR - DR. PUMPKIN

Q. - Doctor, and remember that the Court may specify what were the tasks which she received at the
G8 summit in Genoa?
ANSWER - Yes, I was the manager of a task force organized on the occasion of the summit in Genoa,
which had an interest in, say, the logistics of the entire staff of the State Police, and mobile units,
schools, departments flight shooters , sabotage, dog lovers, squads and so on.
Q. - This charge stemmed from what the source?
REPLY - And there was a decree of the Ministry I head signed by the Prefect of Police Longo now or
then general manager of general affairs, in fact, now frankly I do not remember who it was signed by
the decree.
Q. - Here. So let me show you an order of the Director General's central business of the State Police
and ask if you recognize this measure.
ANSWER - Yes, yes. Absolutely.
Q. - And 'an order of the Prefect Longo, speaking in particular of operational coordination and logistics
of moving departments, education and so forth. In the concrete can be specified in what itself through
this activity?
ANSWER - Basically we had already done in the period before, because we were in Genoa since July
9, to all the many logistical tasks, in fact the number of beds or tables or whatever, okay, and then of
course we were, say, a union between three of the provincial public security, including the police and
departments. So the police sent the order to us, we did all of the services, we organized the whole
situation, in fact, there was to be day by day and then distributed it to the departments, instructions for
what they had to do.
Q. - So profilatasi the need for an operation she had to ensure that particular thing?
ANSWER - The sights, the staff, the media, all there was to ensure I do not know, the various
materials was required.
Q. - Among its contributors was Dr. Peter Trojans?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Remember what duties he had, even under this ordinance?
ANSWER - Exactly ... he was sent a few days before to work with the logistics of Genoa, the
arrangement of all those departments and continued to work in this direction.
Q. - These tasks he had in particular Dr Trojans gave way, as it were, to the operational work of the
same Dr. Troy?
ANSWER - Yes, definitely yes, because, again, as we were ... we were there at the disposal of the
police, so if there had been necessary would have been employed, as indeed it was.
Q. - There was a series of collaborators, personnel specifically recruited?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - To carry out its tasks?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - This task force she said. Remember if there was, of course, among these people in his position,
with its functions Burgio's assistant?
ANSWER - Yes, definitely.
Q. - I remember in particular the tasks to which he was assigned and to whom it referred?
ANSWER - The assistant Burgio was the mobile squad of Rome and was sent to Genoa and to
cooperate with the inspector Gaudelucci precisely in these activities. It is generally held the functions
of the driver at your disposal ... of everyone who asked, in short.
Q. - It was also his chauffeur or driver of the Dr. Troiani has been, she can testify?
ANSWER - Definitely ... definitely driver of the Dr. Trojans, Trojans do not look at the Doctor when
they have a driver, of course, availed itself, in fact, drivers of cars available to the Task Force. Here,
Burgio was one of them.
Q. - Saturday, July 21 she had a chance, and if so under what terms, to intervene at the scene of
fighting during the "big event" in the course Italy?
ANSWER - Yes, I remember that on that occasion I was in my office when I realized, in short, I felt
that something was happening because there were sirens on, there were screams of ..., well, so I
looked out from the balcony, from ... from a fire escape and from there, being in the elevated position,
I realized that the department had left. We're talking about the departments that were, say, were put to
ban the protesters not to pass to the citadel, known as the citadel of the Police, that we had made.
And I realized that these departments had left. So come down to see a attimino was happening.
Q. - There were parties in that sense, I'm sorry?
ANSWER - I did not understand.
Q. - They were left in what sense?
ANSWER - Well, there was a charge in place, in short, there was something ...
Q. - So they left the office.
ANSWER - That's right. So come down to see what was happening and in which circumstances, okay,
I met Dr. Murgolo that seemed quite exhausted, he was sitting now on a wall, on a sidewalk, right now
... and frankly told me, says, "are loading the parade, the procession are charging, they're breaking,
you have to stop them. " Here, in this substance. So I set out on foot, okay, I tried to reach not without
some difficulty, because the road is uphill, still running, all right, I tried ... but in the meantime of
course the department had gone ahead, there was ... in that circumstance then, suddenly, I remember
that ... we proceeded, I finally managed to reach the head, so to speak, of this, of our contingent,
proceeded for another twenty yards, thirty yards to settle there, and then froze them, it should be well,
and then I helped them back, because practically the arrangement was that we had come, all right, in
the first positions, in other words.
Q. - Among officials present at that time remembers seeing, to have had contact with the assistant
chief added Dr. Guaglione?
ANSWER - Yes, in fact, yes. In these moments, in fact, came to me that Dr. Guaglione showed me
some ... ... with an envelope containing two bottles of ... capped short of gasoline, in short, material
anyway ...
QUESTION - Can - made mention of an envelope, an envelope - to describe this bag, even if the
color?
ANSWER - Look, frankly I do not know the envelope, the memories ... but I definitely thought was a
white envelope, it seemed to me celestite. Celestina ... yes.
Q. - And this envelope contained?
ANSWER - It contained two bottles, that's fine, plugged and ... wine, that's what ... wine bottles,
because clearly ... ... classic bottles are bottles, those three quarters, in other words.
Q. - These were wine bottles of wine?
ANSWER - No, because I smelled, in short, made a strong smell of petrol ... I thought, in other words.
Q. - Remember Dr. Guaglione what he said? If he said something?
ANSWER - Look, I frankly I can not remember what I said Guaglione.
Q. - No, I'm telling you where they came from.
ANSWER - I said that had been found by him or someone from his or contingent, and I seemed to
understand that they were hidden, in short, in the midst of a bush, in other words on the spot.
Q. - And where was she, indeed, when this meeting took place, this exposition ...
ANSWER - I did not understand.
Q. - Where were you when this meeting took place, this exposition?
REPLY - But I was ... that is close to the quota, in other words close to the quota, there were some
machines that we had clearly followed our contingent who had advanced and I was near to these
machines here.
Q. - But I'm sorry, maybe I did not understand that. I asked earlier if you have been told the excavation
site, she said yes, in a grove, bush.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you respect this place of discovery where he was?
ANSWER - It was my right to the hedges, the bushes, in short, I vaguely remember that they were on
my right.
Q. - So we can assume that Dr. Guaglione had just found, that she had this impression?
ANSWER - Yes, I had the impression that he had found and circled a few minutes with this plastic bag
containing ... and came to me and I showed her. I looked, smelled the, but so very superficially and
then I deposited from above, as I said ...
Q. - I apologize, some interesting detail. Indeed, she was close to this grove, in the bushes where Dr.
Guaglione said ...
ANSWER - I was on the sidewalk and the bushes were on my right, who then gave to the sea, in
short, here, near the machines, however. My position, in short, more or less.
Q. - So we are on the waterfront?
ANSWER - We are on the waterfront, yes.
Q. - Do you remember if there were local or ...
ANSWER - Look, frankly I do not ... no, in the vicinity, maybe later there was a restaurant, but I do not
remember clearly is that very, very well. and there were these bushes that gave the waterfront and
later, yes, there was probably some local, yes, definitely yes, I thought a restaurant, in other words.
Q. - Can you describe exactly what you remember it all of these objects, if you remember a few more
details than what has already been reported?
ANSWER - Look, remember that the bottles were corked surely, then, because otherwise I would not
have put the seat back of the car.
Q. - No, now we get where she made. Then if you want him to say. Makes you see these bottles.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So how to describe them to him shows.
ANSWER - No, no, he said, said: "Look what we found hidden" ...
Q. - But you said the bottles were a casing, that is, in a bag.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Well, well you have to see them pull out of the bag.
ANSWER - I took this bag here, did not open it, I looked down, I repeat, I realized that they were, in
fact, bottles of wine, okay, I smell emanating seemed full of petrol, definitely were capped, at least this
was my feeling, if not otherwise I would not have rested on the Magnum. Simply, this is what I
remember.
Q. - My attention was devoted to her know if they had possibly seen in a closer, that is taken in hand,
you know ...
ANSWER - No, no, absolutely not.
Q. - So tell me what happens. That Dr. Guaglione shows this finding, there is an exchange of opinions
between you?
ANSWER - Look, I honestly do not remember, in short, because again, there was a situation a little
'special, had just finished fighting, even in short, there was still something in the air, so my attention
was particularly directed to seek to calm people down, so ... which frankly is not much remember what
I told Dr. Guaglione short. I took these bottles, rested on the half, all right, my intention was to
encourage fellow, in short, to facilitate it because he did not know where to put these bottles, that's all.

Q. - Remember that showed them to him at that time Dr. Guaglione?

ANSWER - No, I showed her because she had found the ... I did see this exhibit, all right, which I then
rested ... I mean ... that is not here ...
Q. - was she to request delivery of these bottles?
ANSWER - Look, here ...
Q. - Or vice versa?
ANSWER - frankly I do not remember, then, behold, I do not know if he asked me "where I can rest
them" or if it was I to say to ... "Poggiale here," I repeat I can not be precise in detail, because frankly
it was an exchange of ... a few seconds, then obviously my attention was projected to other things ...
Q. - You said several times already now to have them placed in half, in a ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - What type of vehicle was it?
ANSWER - It was a Magnum ... off-road, all right, provided the mobile units.
Q. - And that Magnum was the means at its disposal?
ANSWER - No, it was half then after that, in short, focusing, behold, it was half that we had in the
availability of the task force and was in fact driven by the driver Burgio.
Q. - So are you in that time is near, it is fair to say, this is close to half.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - He takes the bottle?
REPLY - And I am asking ... and ...
Q. - This vehicle driven by the driver Burgio bottles and put them where?
REPLY - And I put them in the back seat.
Q. - In the back seat.
REPLY - And the hill there in the back seat. And then I left them there, in fact.
Q. - He puts just above the back seat or, say, on the ground?
ANSWER - No, no, I remember just put them on the seat. I opened the door and sat on the seat.
Q. - At head up?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Okay ...
ANSWER - No, no, definitely on the upside, I deposited the bag ...
Q. - You said you were capped. Remember how they were corked bottles?
ANSWER - No, frankly I do not remember this particular.
Q. - After you put the bottles and placed in that way she still had half the contacts with Dr. Guaglione
lost sight of him? What happened?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not. After, I repeat, I left because in the meantime came the Questor and
then began to parley with the demonstrators One moment it was actually a very tense situation and
we entertained, in fact, trying to calm things down, back to the departments, to put some distance
between themselves and the departments and the protesters remember at one point we were just me,
and the driver of the Questor Questor. Then there was a call from those who do not know that
required the presence of the commissioner of Genoa in another place where there was Mr Jordan that
he wanted to talk to him and the commissioner told me to accompany him, I accompanied him and
then I left from the scene, say, for us to return until later because we were unable to contact Mr
Jordan because we tried different routes, but found all roads blocked, even on one occasion even a
group we were intercepted and then we had to flee, in short.
Q. - This initiative - a small step back return - to file their Molotov over the half of him was due in what
context?
ANSWER - No, it was only because, I repeat, to facilitate the fellow who went around with these
bottles, I repeat, the situation was still warm, in short, the fighting had ended a few minutes. There
was a situation in the whole act of extreme tension, so I seemed to favor making the rest connects
these bottles. Now, behold, I repeat, do not know if he said frankly, "where could I?" Or was I to take
the initiative and say "Poggiale there," here, but my intention was solely and exclusively to promote
the links.

Q. - You have to then come back into contact with the medium itself, where he had placed the bottles
and where it was, as you pointed out, the driver driving Burgio?
ANSWER - Burgio Then I meet ... then, then I am called to police headquarters, I do not remember
now if I go to the police station with another or with the car half of the Police, but I do not because the
car had a tire slashed the Quaestor, however I was in the police, the commissioner called me, told me
that we had to organize patrols of intermarriage between mobile unit and nuclei crime prevention,
Digos squad and send them around the city to catch any violent. So ... since we had a situation a little
'special one for us since that day, since the day before there had been the death of Giuliani, that day
we had to deal with the whole situation of public policy almost exclusively, with the support of some of
the Financial Police Department because the Police had been made ... fold in the red zone. So clearly
had no reservations available, etc., bother to return at once to the Citadel to organize these services.
Now frankly I do not know if I called someone or was Burgio Burgio, or was there for other situations.
So I used to hurry to get back the Magnum with the driver Burgio, but keep in mind, in short, the police
and the Fair is ...
Q. - Yes.
RESPONSE - Two short minutes.
Q. - At that moment on board the Magnum, say, that she took the driver Burgio was on someone
else?
ANSWER - No, I do not think so.
Q. - She sits where?
RESPONSE - In front, beside the driver.
Q. - Do you remember having had somehow still thinking of ...
ANSWER - No.
Q. - Of the bottles?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not the case if I were placed again where I had left me frankly and I
remember not say anything because I was already thinking about how and where to get the staff to
organize these squads.
Q. - But if I have understood her, even as he described to be accompanied, meets, say, Burgio and
climb aboard the medium where ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - presumably there are still bottles or where he had placed the bottles, sorry.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - The assistant Brugio mentions something that you remember about these bottles?
ANSWER - I have no memory that the agent asked me Burgio, precisely, of what he had to do with
these bottles and frankly I do not ... I repeat, maybe even me that maybe something earlier, but again,
it was a trip of a little ... no time and frankly I do not remember this one, probably because I was, I
repeat, that I had projected the new emergency and then I did not completely solve the case to ...
Q. - But can not exclude that they had, like, an interview which focused precisely on the location of
that half-bottles on board?
ANSWER - I have no memory of this, look, I rule out, however ...
Q. - What is next? That is where the assistant leaves Burgio?
ANSWER - At the Fair, the Fairgrounds.
Q. - At the Fair.
ANSWER - I go up there in the office, call Dorians ...
Q. - What time will you?
REPLY - But look ... at 17.00, about 17.30, frankly ... but she does not remember, then, that I had
been with the Chief of between 17.00 and 18.00 GMT.
Q. - What does, say, immediately after?
ANSWER - I call Trojans, I tell him to find twenty or thirty people, a contingent, however, be made
available to the police because they had made these squads.
Q. - No, no, not too brief. Call Trojans because he is his own initiative?
ANSWER - Because the Trojans was the only official, so to speak, available at that time, the only
readily available in that moment at the Fair. I called him and gave him the job.
Q. - What job gave him?
ANSWER - The look and found some twenty or thirty people, all right, the mobile units and then form
teams to go and make himself available, in fact, the police squads to make them famous.
Q. - You say rightly that the situation is perhaps, the famous squads ... But the Court also explain a
moment because I'm famous. That gave her this position for the Trojans to recruit personnel
department of the mobile because it was required?
ANSWER - Yes, the commissioner asked, I had already said before.
Q. - And then ...
ANSWER - I called the police station, okay, I went to the police station, told me that we should do
immediately mixed squads of, okay, to be sent around the city, in fact, try to intercept some violent
element that could still be intercepted, turn, then, why these squads were formed. Since I was asked
just a little 'personal, thirty ... rappresentai also because of the extreme difficulties that the
commissioner had, in fact, because we had no reserves and then we had to practically re-use existing
member of staff in the morning, so we were able to find these twenty thirty people, the Trojans were
the only official available at that time there under me and since I specifically asked the Chief of the
presence of an official in charge of these men, all right, I ordered the Trojans. And remember the fact
that the only recommendation that I made, I say, look, considering that we have to go for the squads
and we can not use it for large armored patrols were not capable of finding Magnum and armored
vehicles because in the meantime it was a rumor, which turned out to an urban legend, at least
someone who wanted to avenge the death of Giuliani and why I recommended that I use the Magnum
tanks, which were later found on the spot.
Q. - He also indication about the amount of men? She has ...
ANSWER - I gave directions?
Q. - Also about the amount of men to recruit? She has made a number?
ANSWER - Yes, twenty - thirty words.
Q. - Do you know how they were recruited?
ANSWER - I think in the end I managed to scrape together some thirty.
Q. - These men know what departments came from in particular?
ANSWER - No, frankly no. I think it was the department of Rome, perhaps some of Naples, now ... but
they were, so to speak, the strongest contingent, then.
Q. - So the mobile squad but we are talking about?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, we are still talking about mobile unit, crime prevention because then nuclei were
ordered separately, as well as mobile teams and Digos.
Q. - Those in suit order, so to speak.
ANSWER - Yes, in overalls and order.
Q. - You were saying that the goal of these patrols, for as has been shown and reported, what was it?
ANSWER - Was to move about the city trying to intercept some group of violent and this together with
squads that there were elements of Digos, or indeed should, however, still able to recognize and
intercept these people more easily.
Q. - He had contacts with Dr. Trojans during the course of this service?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not, I said to Dr. Trojans this directive, he went to police headquarters with
these people and there are precisely placed at the disposal of the police headquarters in Genoa and
the official responsible for the management of these squads.
Q. - We are around now more or less?
ANSWER - I think around 18.00.
Q. - But I heard later, was also contacted by telephone ...
ANSWER - No, absolutely not. I no longer had contact with Dr. Trojans nor for that day and nor do I
believe for the next day.
Q. - Doctor, we have tabulated the results obtained a series of phone calls she makes or receives
from, the better, Dr. Troy, in particular there is a series in the time slot, say, from 20.00 to, say, the
20:36 'last. There is a phone call at 20.10, another at 20:16, the other at 20:17 and another at 20:36
and there is a series of calls before all, to be honest, coming from Dr. Troy, so she is called.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - I say, another set fairly dense, in the time slot 17:30 to 17:51, But if we say squads were formed
around the time that you described, then after 18.00, say 20.00 in the time zone of where you place
these contacts I mentioned that I should be a time slot in which Dr. Troiani has played this service or
is doing this service, so there have been contacts in contrast to her ...
ANSWER - Yes Look, she's telling me, but I remember absolutely ... ... further, however, that's
probably why he called me doubt these men probably had to eat, I do not know.
Q. - But you see, there is a phone call at 20.10, I think, a minute ... and sixteen of one hundred and
sixteen seconds, sorry, then there are other calls eleven seconds, twenty-two seconds, thirty seconds,
are calls in which at least is likely that some information about what was going on and doing what Dr.
Troiani has passed.
ANSWER - Yes, but frankly I do not remember. Do not ... I repeat, I do not remember. But, I repeat,
routine phone calls have been short, however, here, I probably upgraded to the fact that they were still
in service. That, however, calls that I was impressed.
Q. - Then what happens? So let's say in his account now with the memory of these calls or do not
remember these calls are, in fact, at eight, eight and a half in the evening.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Then she remembers something happens?
ANSWER: - After half past eight I remember that, here, we went for a shower and then we went to
eat, but in short, we reached a restaurant ... restaurant, the canteen which was formed right there and
then to the Fair must have been the ... 21.00, in other words. While we were eating and eating next to
us ... even Dr. Crea, Head of the Office of Police, which receives a call from the commissioner and
that the men asked for an operation that should have been done. I feel that Dr. Make says "Here is
Mr. Donnini, I pass him." And so I spent the Quaestor, because I was right in the next table, we say.
Q. - Yes.
REPLY - And the commissioner asked me ... he needed a hundred, five hundred men, all right, for an
emergency that should have been done. And in that time I represented clearly the difficulties of finding
these staff to the commissioner, because, I repeat, we did not have any man, in fact available. I
remember that the commissioner in this circumstance is a hint, he says, "The Seventh Unit there."
Here, I am in front of me at a nearby table was Dr. Singers who was eating with some of his own staff
of ...
Q. - Of Seventh Unit.
ANSWER - the Seventh core and then take my time, I say to the commissioner, "All right, now I see a
moment and let you know and I'll call you." In fact I went to Dr. Singers, the prospettai this need, this
urgency that had occurred and asked the doctor if Singers had the chance to find the men of his core.
I said yes because they were all of radio links between them and then asked him to collect, in short,
the staff at District and ritelefonai, all right, saying it was the seventh core that could be made
available. The commissioner asked me, says: "How many? I am a hundred, one hundred and twenty?
", Say" no, they will be up about seventy "and he told me in that circumstance" means that some will
call contingent Weapon ". I urged the urgency, all right, so much so that Dr. Singers with others were
still eating and practically stopped eating. They stopped to eat at ... and then went to the police
headquarters.
Q. - We're at?
ANSWER - Look, we are ... the phone call, I remember, comes around 21.30, so. So the time to 21:00
... ... 21.45, up 22.00, in short, around that time slot.
Q. - Then you have contact again with the Police, that is, it refers to the ...
ANSWER - No, absolutely not. I do not remember at all that ...
Q. - But let's say the recruitment, who had managed to do what you personally refer to the
commissioner?
ANSWER - I am referring to the commissioner that I found the staff. Yes, yes, this certainly is logical. I
found the staff and the commissioner told me, precisely in these terms, and because I wondered how
many had not reached that figure that he told me it needed, "Okay, it means that we will take some
contingent Weapon". Period. Then I had no more contacts, at least that ...
Q. - Rritornando Dr. Troiani, when Dr. Trojans going to do this service, by those who are functionally
dependent?
RESPONSE - From the official who was responsible for the management of these squads, who was
Dr. Caldarozzi. Then the first officer and deputy director of the SCO.
Q. - After the completion of service of the squads, here, she said she does not remember contacts
with Dr. Troy. Here, then, but somehow knows what happens to Dr. Troy, what does it do?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not. I know that Dr. Troy reaches, in fact, the Police and party along with
Dr. Calderozzi with this ... but I learned later, okay? These squads are created five or six squads.
Q. - That is what he knew?
REPLY - But after ...
Q. - What did you know?
ANSWER - That the Trojans remains available to Dr. Dr. Calderozzi, following him almost ...
Q. - What is it?
RESPONSE - In these squads are doing, but without ...
Q. - No, I'm saying the patrols ended what became known that Dr. Troy had done?
ANSWER - After completing the squads know that they were ... but then again, days later, they were
all called in police because one of those squads, that's fine, but there was Dr. Troy, he attacked, in
fact, and the ... ... then all of the patrols are concentrated in and called police.
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - There are set at liberty, indeed asking for reinforcements and then proceed to do so
urgent that I then later learned to be the operation of Diaz.
Q. - But when she said the men were asked, even told one hundred, five hundred men to organize
this operation. So post-squads, right? We ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - you in behalf of the staff available to be sent also kept in mind that quota of ...
ANSWER - No, absolutely not, more was required of me, because I said to the commissioner, I say,
"but there are the squads," he said, "No, no, - he says - one hundred, five hundred more men."
Q. - So you took for granted the presence of those men already in use?
ANSWER - Yes, absolutely yes, why then did not return, because we remained in place until 22.00,
22.30, then ...
Q. - I'm sorry, I told her, maybe I should not have to say, she took it for granted, but it seemed to be
taken for granted even by those who required this additional staff?
ANSWER - Yes, because if I am not mistaken, that's fine, and I repeat I do not have the right ... but I
did because of grievances in a sense, because the men I had them and then said, "but - I say - 's
Besides there are the squads still around - I say - we use those "here, but the commissioner was ... I
repeat, very powerful in the request, saying:" No, no, I need men because there is an urgent need to
do " I thought an operation, at least the urgency, the number of men that I was asked, to which an
option was given a certain importance.
Q. - Yes. But I'm sorry, I do understand; because first you said that only days after he realized that the
squads were not released, the squads led by Dr. Troiani and then were used. Now you're telling me
that when they requested additional staff person was, so she took it for granted, his interlocutor was
assumed that there were also the squads for these operations.
ANSWER - Yes, sure. No, no, maybe ... ... I said that the patrols were made available to the police
station. The police used them to make the squads. After the attack of one of these squads were called
to the police station all goes well, and then held ...
Q. - And then reused.
RESPONSE - All right? In addition to these more I asked one hundred, five hundred men.
Q. - But then she also said that only days after he learned that these squads, and then Dr. Trojans
had participated ...
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - I misunderstood?
ANSWER - No, I expressed myself badly myself. I gave ... yes, yes, no, absolutely. In short.
Q. - So the operation had gone to the Trojans Dr. Diaz had attended? In the knowledge era.
ANSWER - Dr. Diaz attended the Trojans as well as any other, okay? Then after I found out later that
they were used to belt the site, in other words.
Q. - Remember we say we have had contact with Dr. Troy, who was on that site ...
ANSWER - The Diaz?
Q. - What was the Diaz or who was actually employed in this operation and tell us something?
ANSWER - No, no, absolutely not.
Q. - I always realize that memories are a little 'stressed, would be tabulated we have requested such
as a phone call from Dr. Trojans 23.39,52 and then to her in time for them to say what they were doing
and going .
ANSWER - frankly I do not remember. Just do not ... these ... this phone call at 23?
APPLICATION - 23, watch, and 39 and 52 for a period of twenty-seven seconds, which is a slot in
which Dr. Troy was still in some way involved or was approaching the school or at least was, as one
can reconstruct ...
ANSWER - frankly I do not remember.
Q. - You do not remember what you were told in that circumstance?
ANSWER - I do not remember precisely the call.
Q. - It is a track, say, document.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, no, no ...
Q. - But now she has said quite clearly seems to me that she had, however, that the staff cognizance
of the same Trojans and Trojans ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes, I deduced from their phone call that I had done the commissioner, because I
repeat, I had insisted that these men were no longer used.
Q. - She then followed the events that night, he had the opportunity to be informed of something?
ANSWER - I do not ... no one informed me, I absolutely do not remember that someone told me. So
much so that going to the police station the next morning, around eight o'clock, so why to get
precisely what rules we should have done, I met an official of the French police that I knew and he
told me, he says: " but tonight it has happened, then? ". And she told me that he had been awakened
by ... even from Paris to such information.
Q. - What can we say and what you can say than, say, the official reference of the Trojans during the
operation, Dr. Diaz? She said that during the patrols had contact, however, as executive officer Dr
Calderozzi who organized these squads.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - In the operation Diaz in particular who could be the official reference?
ANSWER - Dr. Troy?
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - Well, he went with Dr. Calderozzi, I think that was available to Dr. Calderozzi.
Q. - You mentioned in this source of information was a foreign officer of the day.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - But Dr. Troiani said the day after something?
ANSWER - Look, I honestly do not remember this because, see, a cross my attimino a little 'things. I
remember that on that occasion I met Dr. Singers after talking, in fact, this officer of the French Police,
I met Dr. Singers ...
Q. - That the said Dr. Singers?
ANSWER - Please?
Q. - That the said Dr. Singers?
ANSWER - The Singers Dr. told me: "Look, we have nothing to do absolutely nothing." He says: "we
have not done anything" and I calmed down and of course I worried about quotas, the mobile units. In
fact I remember that I told to do so even to the Prefect Longo. I say: "look at us, yes, we were there ...
But I have nothing to do nothing, in short." Then after a couple of hours but I think I have called the
Prefect said, "But here I see that many news are coming", okay? So clearly it is possible that at this
juncture has asked someone something, but here, now frankly I do not ...
Q. - At the Doctor reminds Trojans now?
ANSWER - I do not remember.
Q. - During the investigation, say, we are in the summer of 2002 Dr. Trojans, whose presence is
established precisely in the operation, is called to testify as a witness in the offices of the Prosecutor
of Genoa.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You on that occasion, or in the time that I have said contacts with the same ...
ANSWER - Meet Dr. Trojans, but by chance, because in the meantime, all right, we had ... I
remember we were at the barracks Ferdinand of Savoy, because I had been instructed to build a
multipurpose center where they would have insisted Spinaceto the NOCS, a school Police and fire
gold. The Trojans ran the flames Dr. Gold, appeared in newspapers, but this was done, I think, before
Dr. Troiani, surely even before Dr. Trojans were called to Genoa and there was some article in the
newspaper ...
Q. - Perhaps he was referring to Dr. Guaglione perhaps?
ANSWER - That's right. No, but Dr. Guaglione not think it was written the name. At least ... but, here,
was referring to these bottles were found and in the meantime I believe that Dr. Troy had been
convened at Genoa. Here, as on that occasion we met, but then again, to talk about other things, it
turned out this speech, but very, so very superficially and Dr. Troiani said to me, saying: "Look, I have
not really seen these bottles" I said: "Look, I honestly remember these bottles", but clearly did not
know if they were the same or other. It was very ...
Q. - Excuse me, but then you talked of the bottles?
ANSWER - We talked about these bottles and I told him that ...
Q. - So, in summary, was in the newspapers, as I understand it, the news of the bottles.
ANSWER - the bottle.
Q. - What the bottles were found in the Diaz maybe not ...
ANSWER - The bottles, at one point you said that ...
Q. - Perhaps they were not found to Diaz.
ANSWER - I said, "Look, I remember it two bottles were found in that circumstance."
Q. - I mean sorry?
RESPONSE - In the afternoon, okay?
Q. - So you said "I remember me those bottles have been found in the afternoon."
ANSWER - not those bottles ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - He did not say those, said the bottles.
ANSWER - I have two bottles that were found ...
Q. - No, I have heard those.
ANSWER - No, I have spoken ...
Q. - Okay. So excuse me, she says the bottle or two?
ANSWER - No, two bottles.
Q. - Very well. So, if I may ...
RESPONSE - Two bottles, yes, he's right, I'm sorry, I ...
Q. - If you allow me I respect that, if the latter is its final position, in the minutes that she had said
instead that the first version on Monday, "he told me, told me that these bottles ..." is transcribing the
minutes of 10.7.2002.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - So full transcript of her voice.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - "He told me, told me that these bottles" - page 5 - "So in fact I said: 'Look, I saw these bottles in
the Viale Kennedy, Viale Kennedy, yes, the waterfront'." She said this and this is the first version of
today.
ANSWER - Look, I ...
Q. - A little 'roar of the lawyers and she immediately changed version.
ANSWER - No, no, look, I have no problem ...
INTERVENTION - (Off microphone)
PRESIDENT - Let's forget this ... please answer.
ANSWER - I have no difficulty in confirming that ...
Q. - Did I read what is recorded.
ANSWER - Yes, but again, these bottles ... I
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - President, excuse me for interrupting the witness. It can be affected by
what he said at first the witness before the Tribunal, if "Quelle" or "The", so we solve the problem.
PRESIDENT - I think it's pretty hard, so I feel later. We hear from the heads what he wants to say
about these bottles.
ANSWER - I saw those bottles in the superficial way, as mentioned before. There were two bottles of
wine, okay, I read the label completely, I do not remember, these were capped ...
Q. - I'm sorry Doctor, you've got the point we are discussing here. On the basis of the sentence seems
to me that you have said here in court today, it seems to me, that "those bottles," she gave it for
granted that you speak of the bottles that she had seen, I think, in the afternoon. I then, since then
she has settled in at another location more generic, and I remember I read a statement.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - I'm sorry.
ANSWER - Please.
Q. - Then, "In fact I said:" I see those bottles I saw on Viale Kennedy, Viale Kennedy, yes, along the
sea. " That also seems to me here ...
ANSWER - Probably ...
Q. - To understand that you refer to their own, here.
ANSWER - Because, I repeat, there was talk of the newspaper articles from the bottle and now can
not remember exactly what the newspapers reported. Probably if the newspaper reported, in fact, the
reference to the machine and so on Magnum, and I probably said those bottles we have seen. But
here, again ...

Q. - Why did she go on and on in his interview on page 7 seems to me, "in fact, precisely, I said, I say:
'Look,' ste bottles I've seen them in fact" "as he said, in short her.
ANSWER - Yes, these bottles ...
Q. - "I mean I saw 'I'm the bag with' ste bottles. Okay, someone showed me. "
ANSWER - Yes, yes, but I can confirm. These bottles referring to these two bottles that had been
found ... two bottles had been found in the street ... ... Kennedy Avenue to the waterfront, in other
words. Oh well ...
Q. - It seems to me that in your dialogue she takes for granted that the bottles appeared in the
newspapers ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - No, but this is an inference ...
Q. - I apologize, I think. The witness is called to take a stand. I do not know ...
PRESIDENT - Then please do precise and objective questions of the witness, it is useless to tell him
the answer. The witness tells us exactly what he said and what he said ...
Q. - President, rather than challenge the sentences do not ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - President I'm sorry, it refers to a vision he saw in the paper. Most likely
these are the bottles in the newspaper that photographs have been put before the witness as he talks,
and these photographs have never been shown. That refers to bottles that had seen a newspaper.
Then, you can know which ...
PRESIDENT - We are talking about what the witness said at the time of the interrogation.
QUESTION - Mr President, in other passages, the witness reiterated this concept, always new
page ... "I said, 'I' ste bottles I've seen, I've seen in Viale Kennedy, someone has made me see, then
there 'ste bottles "." That you speak of these bottles that she has seen ...
ANSWER - I am referring here is clear ... here, but obviously if I do not know then that ... I'm referring
to an article in the paper that I seem to have read and talked about this, okay, the Trojans were called
and I said it ... Roman jargon, in other words, "'Ste bottles - I say - I have seen at Kennedy Avenue at
15.30," not ... I repeat, I have seen ...
Q. - I'm sorry ...
ANSWER - If she now shows them to me I am not able to recognize.
Q. - But now I asked her if ... excuse me, I asked her to report what was the dialogue between you.
We have already examined, and then run out of questions the lawyers will make them perhaps on the
point, what she remembers to have seen historically.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - The series of questions I'm asking is that the dialogue between her and the Trojans in 2002.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - What else, something entirely different from what you said before when I had questions on the
historical fact. So all I ask different questions, I'm sorry. Then, in another passage that I read, that is,
page 6, "in fact I said" Look, tell the truth, for short, 'ste bottles in my opinion, I say, are coming out all
over the papers "."
ANSWER - Yes. I invited the Trojans ... but then again, a conversation was very superficial, very ...
because the Trojans seemed pretty short, tried, all right, I said: "Look - I say - you tell the truth" ...

DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - No, excuse me, Mr. President, because if the complaints are made are
done correctly. Well, says "in fact I told him, I said: 'Look, tell the truth because in fact' ste bottles" "...
Q. - No, excuse me, I am opposed to the direct challenge of the lawyer in his cross-examination when
it is not ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President ...
Q. - I object.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - The President ...
Q. - I object, we already had a discussion about several times. I object.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - No, no President, you have the power and duty to oversee the fairness
of the examination and therefore also on any disputes. If the prosecutor in the dispute ...
Q. - You can not read, can give the report to the President ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - No President, I am speaking please? Can tell the prosecutor not to
interrupt me please?
PRESIDENT - We want to hear what the lawyer says, please?
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - Thanks. Since it is the Court that supervises the correctness of the
examination, if an objection is made to the heads or do it to him during the whole or a comfortable one
can not omit a parenthesis. I give her the verbal notice that she is missing the final rejects the
premise. Give it to him, the controls you.
Q. - No, I'm sorry Mr. President, please be patient, I ask you to read the minutes, that the other pages,
can not give her a page.
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - (Off microphone)
Q. - No, excuse me, I challenged ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - I'm giving what she has contested. She complains in full, if not disputed
by the party that is convenient for you, I should read more.
PRESIDENT - If the prosecutor has another copy of the report gives me.
Q. - I'm sorry Mr. President, I challenged five or six steps and I also mentioned the pages. Then, if the
lawyer ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - You can not stop where it wants to, she told them to read it all in dispute.

Q. - No, I have no problem and allows the defender I could fully read the minutes on page 4 to page 8
and ask that the President of the Court and gentlemen of the Court read the minutes on page 4 to
page 8, I have no problem because what I asked of the witness is recorded and I have absolute
interest in that, if he wants, all the minutes in this part is read by the Court. I do not have anything, we
did not like anything prosecutor to hide, why is an interpretation that does not ... ... I was told not to be
able to give the witness that the witness has just said ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - President, no, if you make a complaint is made on the part to which it
refers ...
Q. - Very well, then a lawyer ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - And then you deny ...
Q. - Lawyer, do you want more if I ask the Court to have all the minutes, he wants more?
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - What is doing a code that is his and not what is in effect ...
PRESIDENT - These discussions between the Parties I can not stand. Okay? So everyone is talking
about when it's his turn and that's it. At this point we have the record, we read all the minutes and not
talk about it more on page 4 to page 8.
QUESTION - The question I was asked was: "He has had contact with Dr. Troiani, if so, on that
occasion of the convening of Troiani doctor as a witness and what have you said?" Then, "I phoned
the doctor to have a Trojan meeting with him. In fact he told me that he had been called here in
Genoa, I still did not know to be called, then I then, yes, in fact, yes, churches. But he says: "Why,
what are the reasons?" And he told me, "he says, but those bottles will probably say" that was all over
the papers and in fact he told me that 'ste bottles had never seen for the truth. " "PM: but what she
said to the Trojans?", "Donnini:" What I said in what sense? "," PM: I would like to know if you have
had contact and have talked about these bottles "," Donnini: "No, we talked in these terms "," PM: "He
has reported that he knew nothing?", "Donnini: Yes, says:" I 'ste bottles I've ever seen "and I said on
that occasion ..." "PM: Excuse me," "Donnini: yes, say", "In what sense has never seen?", "Donnini he
told me, told me that these bottles ... so, in fact I said to him:" Look I saw these bottles in the Viale
Kennedy, Viale Kennedy, yes, along the sea ", could not remember ...", "PM: first things first, he told
you" I was summoned to Genoa "," "Donnini: yes . In fact he went to take the call to the police station
and then later we saw from me. He went to take the call to the police station where it was, was home
now, yes, I think he was home, he lives outside Rome, live in Terni, okay. It says: "I pass" and I told
him: "Look, I had to talk to you about these things here because probably we have to move." Can I
leave out the p.m. knows, the episode of the notification and so forth. "Donnini looks" ... jump to the
page bottom of page 5: "... for me this is all right, I judge it a little 'outside, yes, no, for heaven's sake, I
refer to the notification of the proceedings ... Dr. Trojans that was made by an official of the police
headquarters in Rome with information, in short, no contacts at all rituals. " "Donnini note that I did not
even know that the Trojans were ... I told him in that circumstance." "P.m.: then go to the point. He
comes from her, tell her about complex Spinaceto and then you come to the point "," Donnini: no, not
really, I said, in fact, that he would go first to pick up the squad. I waited so much so that told me he
would come to around six. Then it was around seven, okay, and told me, he says, I asked him: "But
what is' reason for this is? You are hearing as a witness? Because he is, I think, okay, that is, it is for
this reason, the reason of the bottles, "" I'll say it to her? "," Yes, he tells me, yes, yes. And in fact I
who told him, told him: "Look, tell the truth because in fact 'ste bottles, in my opinion, I say, are coming
out all over the papers, now the exact words I honestly do not remember them." "No." "Donnini, but in
fact, precisely, I said, I say: 'Look,' ste bottles I've seen them in effect" as the words I said to her, I saw
that 'I am the bag with' ste bottles, okay, someone I showed her, okay? I do not remember at all that
has been Dr. Guaglione not remember ... but honestly, I repeat, as I said last time, not much. " "PM ...
And he said to correlate what?", "Donnini these bottles ... that he had never seen before, well, the
thing or not ..." "But he brought them these bottles, ie the 'he delivered him to Dr. Di Bernardini? ","
Donnini: Actually, no, I said, I said, says, "I' ste bottles I've seen, but I have indicated, yes, but he had
not seen the bottles there in Kennedy Street, I mean, where I had seen. He had seen the gliel'avrebbe
Diaz and someone mentioned to him, even told me exactly that and he would point to Di Bernardini
these bottles, remember this. " "It was then that she informed the actually seeing these bottles or
not?", "Yes, yes, yes," "What?", "No, I said, I 'ste bottles I've seen, the I have seen in Kennedy
Avenue, someone has made me see, "then there are 'ste bottles, here, here, but could not remember
the Magnum that I absolutely do not remember having said this, because, remember, we rebuilt here
speech "," But we have not rebuilt with his statement "," yes "," that these bottles are made by Dr.
Guaglione are delivered to you? "," Yes "," In fact we heard Dr. Guaglione who said, "and so forth. I
would say that the point is this.
PRESIDENT - The witness wants to tell us if it supports these statements?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
PRESIDENT - If you want to clarify something about this?
ANSWER - I confirm pretty much what it is. I now you are telling me, I pretty much confirm what I
have told the PM that I saw these bottles, I repeat, I picked up a second and I saw from the top, which
frankly I can not describe them ... In that not talking about bottles probably read in the paper that ... I
do not know, referred to the Magnum, then something in this ... but then again, I do not think I have
said different things from ...
Q. - No, no, but everything has sparked uproar here because she seems to me he said "those bottles"
and then said "But two bottles", in short, something a bit more generic. However I do not do
evaluation, was read the content of his statements.
ANSWER - I apologize if I have engendered ...
Q. - I want a moment she said to me one that perhaps we can add. Returning for a moment the driver
Burgio, behold, she told me that when then back to the police station Burgio is alone in the car and
she sits next to him.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - He told me it is inconceivable that he had been a conversation, an exchange for the issue of
Molotov. But when she puts the bag for the first half with the Molotov-led Burgio remember places
them in the back seat ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - If Burgio was alone or was with other people?
ANSWER - I do not remember if he was alone, if he was with other people, whether it was in the car
or near the machine, I do not remember this at all. Indeed it seems to me that there was no one inside
the machine, right? I open the back, put them in the car, but the driver was clearly near, nearby, in
short, controlled the middle, in other words, this is my feeling then.
Q. - You have in mind, as it were, the image of Burgio, anyway?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Is a person who is known Burgio?
ANSWER - Yes, right? Sure.
Q. - In what sense? The Court did not ...
ANSWER - Why is high, it's big.
PROSECUTOR - I would say that I can say at this moment it is completed. Thank you, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT - The plaintiffs have questions? None.

DEFENSE - MR. Di Bugno

Q. - I'd like you to tell me what you remember about the characteristics of the bottles he has seen in ...

PRESIDENT - Lawyer, maybe you do not hear.

ANSWER - Yes, though I understand the question.
Q. - Yes, but I repeat it because maybe the record is not coming. If the memory tells me that, then
getting rid of the idea that has already spoken, which has already said, if I now indicates what are the
characteristics that are reminiscent of the bottles that showed Guaglione Course in Italy.
ANSWER - Look, I remember that I thought the bag color Celestine. It seemed also quite dirty, here,
this is a flash that this moment ... that the bottles were certainly bottles of wine, because I know to
distinguish, in short, a bottle of wine from bottles of mineral water or beer. So classic bottles, bottles of
three quarters. The memory that were plugged, but more that I remember, I repeat, is a feeling that
they were corked bottles otherwise, I repeat, I would not put behind the seats, but I would maybe put
in a position to ... do not flip them, in short, though not quite remember how they were capped or not
the label, absolutely.
Q. - You said at one point the Court and with a gesture she described how they looked at these
bottles, widening, if I understand correctly, the edges ...
ANSWER - Yes, for a moment and looking at expanding ...
Q. - The edges of the bag where they were hospitalized.
ANSWER - I did not understand.
Q. - Pushing the edges of the bag where they were the bottles?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Has fate of this gesture.
ANSWER - Yes, I make this gesture here, yes.
Q. - You mean that there was the label?
ANSWER - No, I do not rule it out. Neither rule out nor confirm it, that is, I have not seen it, I've
noticed I have not, I repeat, I picked up the bottles.
Q. - But he had a vision ...
ANSWER - A view from what seemed like bottles of wine, period.
Q. - But even expanding the bag?
ANSWER - Yes, yes, I extended the bag, in the broader sense has made me see, I got 'I'm holding
the bag, so I did, I saw ...
Q. - But he had a vision as well as the neck of bottles, so that a view from above, even a partial view
of the sides of the bottles?
ANSWER - I honestly do not ... I do not remember this guy. I remember watching ...
Q. - Do you remember if you were on the necks of the bottles of cellophane?
ANSWER - No, absolutely.
Q. - Closed with ...
ANSWER - No, I do not remember.
Q. - I exclude?
ANSWER - No, do not rule it out, I do not remember anything, I can not remember, that is not ... I do
not remember, here. Again, the fact that I said the bottles were corked, okay, it's more of a feeling that
I ...
Q. - I understood.
ANSWER - It's been six years, in fact.
Q. - If the memory serves as a reminder that on page 2 of summary information released July 3, 2002
she reported to the Prosecutor of Genoa "two-type bottles, like I do not know, such as wine, behold,
two bottles of this kind of this kind here, in short, I do not think there was the label. Or at least not that
I did not notice. "
ANSWER - That's right.
Q. - But then it is more precise on this point ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - When the same report on page 27 the prosecutor asked her: "The label does not remember?",
"No, no, absolutely. In fact I dare say that even were unlabeled, but I do not remember 'I'm Hood. "
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you precise question here, however, in the prosecution "does not remember the label," says:
"In fact I dare say that even without the label were" so it is that you do not remember ...
ANSWER - Yes ...
Q. - But who remembers that were unlabeled.
ANSWER - I repeat, it is feelings that I had at that time looking at them from above.
Q. - That there was no label.
ANSWER - I repeat, however, if the label was or was not there I could not say because I do not
remember at all, but the position I have seen virtually the label I have not seen.
Q. - So for what she saw, she saw the label.
ANSWER - No, I have not seen. Here, I repeat, however, I could not swear, or if the label was not
there, I have not seen. I have not seen nor remember it was capped with cellophane.
Q. - It is clear, is clear.
ANSWER - I have no memory.
Q. - If the prosecutor can you please broadcast the photographs were shown in the photo Piccolotto
number 2. If you want to approach me and say if you have ever seen those bottles. Approaching and
then going back to the microphone to respond.
ANSWER - They are two classic wine bottles that may be what I've seen in the bag.
Q. - But if she has never seen those bottles? The bottles have to see, see that we have a hood? Take
a good look.
ANSWER - These bottles if I saw them in photographs probably. Something ...
Q. - On paper, I do not know.
ANSWER - No, no, I do not think the newspaper, but I could not swear if this is the photographs that
look like us or another. I think I have seen them during interrogation by the PM, but not ...
Q. - Did they show these pictures?
ANSWER - frankly I could not swear to this. It's not that these photographs do not know ... or two ...
some photographs ... photographs that showed bottles of wine for three quarters, yes.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - If the lawyer has an interest in knowing which photo was shown at the
head is the photo of the press conference of the Police Headquarters.
ANSWER - Yes, this one probably do not remember if I showed it to her I saw in the newspaper or on
television, I remember something like this, here, but not ...
Q. - Do you remember having seen this bottle where? If I do I see this bottle, this bottle where she
remembers seeing her? In a newspaper? The bottles he talked with Trojans?
ANSWER - These bottles, here, a feeling of having seen or because I showed them the PM this
photograph ... no, I do not think the newspapers have seen this photograph, absolutely. At least I do
not remember.
PRESIDENT - For the Court, this photograph is shown? Exhibit 120 Photoride 43PZ. Photos of the
press conference, then given to the press.
Q. - You first referring to the prosecutor stated that once Guaglione shows the bottles and held them
over her, then put on after the half.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - This is a fact that she did not remember during the interview and immediately clear.
ANSWER - No, no, yes, yes. I did not remember at all. Then we reconstructed, not even remember
who was the half. Then after ...
Q. - Do you even remember that he reported that he had returned to Guaglione.
ANSWER - Yes, yes, I remembered wrong, in fact. Then gradually, in other words, during interrogation
and so I focused on the situation, in other words.
Q. - Is the situation better served to focus the fact that the prosecution has read the statements of
others who said differently from what she said?
REPLY - But it is probably served to remind me that maybe some special to me in that moment I had
completely erased my memory, here.
Q. - So you have been ... read statements that showed other people that showed that she ...
ANSWER - Yes, I think ...
Q. - He put the bottles on the medium.
ANSWER - Look, frankly I think now I have to remember ... I was reading, I think, the declaration
of ... ... Guaglione
Q. - As an official, of course, telling her that she had taken.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Guaglione's statements are what she needs to remember better? That is, if you leave it alone
Guaglione statements and what he has said before and now refers to the Court what you remember
what happened there?
ANSWER - Look, I frankly when ...
Q. - Never mind the statements of Guaglione, simply tell us what you remember about her.
ANSWER - Well, now ...
Q. - On the point of delivery, the point of the half.
ANSWER - frankly, now I remember these details.
Q. - If you remember them.
ANSWER - Yes Now, now, yes. Before I do not remember them at all, so much so that we
reconstructed in a sense the whole ... and ... any condition during questioning by prosecutor.
Q. - I mean so she has no memory ...
ANSWER - I had just cleared from my head, I do not remember these bottles virtually nothing, in
short, here.
Q. - But now he says he remembers or is because ...
ANSWER - Yes, yes it is. No, no, I remember, I remember that Guaglione showed me the bottles, I
remember that I picked it up and looked so very briefly. So much so that now if you ask me if those
were the bottles that I saw I say could be because they are three quarters of wine bottles, but certainly
do not know if those were or anything else.
Q. - That is the only feature that you see the similarity is that they are three quarters of wine bottles,
this is it.
ANSWER - Yes, yes only that, yes, absolutely do not remember the cellophane ...
Q. - And that though we already ...
ANSWER - I do not remember the label completely ...
Q. - We've already explored. I say, for what it concerns the delivery to you by Guaglione the fact that
she puts them on the half, I tell you, after that were disputed, after repeatedly said I do not remember,
I do not remember, I do not I remember ...
ANSWER - Yes, then after a few flash pretty much have them rebuilt ...
Q. - I am come to mind.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - It's not that he rebuilt on the conceptual level?
ANSWER - No, no, absolutely.
QUESTION - You now have the memory of an image of Guaglione.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - But the name of the driver of the vehicle.
ANSWER - The name of the driver of the vehicle I do not remember me, because, I repeat, it was my
driver, was one of many drivers, however, agents who were there and were in our willingness, in other
words, we used, because the My driver was another, the agent was paper, so I when I used these
here were used by other officials who were in the ...
Q. - So you do not remember?
ANSWER - Burgio ... we are going to rebuilt their exclusion on.
Q. - What is it?
ANSWER - Why were we in a few this morning, as I said at one point going to read on ... and then it
was rebuilt was the agent Burgio.
Q. - So this time ...
ANSWER - then as you point out things the memory was getting more specific, especially M'era then
the fact that he came to take me to the police station and reported there, that I remember exactly.
Because see, I am the Burg ...
Q. - I'm sorry, but I understood perfectly. I want to ... tell me, tell me, for the love of God Say.
ANSWER - No, Burgio, when the bottles in storage that is not Magnum Magnum legassi in Burgio, do
not know if I give the idea, I did not know that he was the driver, right? He was close, I think it was not
even in the car, I deposit there, okay? Then Burgio was the driver who picked me up to the police
station and took me to the Fair ...
Q. - But when she deposited the bottles in the car, not, how do you know that the driver is Burgio?
REPLY - But in fact, that I then Magnum proved to be included in Burgio, okay, for those days, for that
day.
Q. - So we say that she ...
ANSWER - I am physically in the car when I put the bottles ...
Q. - There is no one in the car.
ANSWER - Well, it seems to me that there was no one, however, this feeling that these people be
taken to ensure the car I had it there because they were definitely close, okay? Then rebuilding ...
Q. - But you once you put the bottles in the car then got back in the car and went ...
ANSWER - No, absolutely.
Q. - It is not risen.
ANSWER - Once I put the bottles in the car then, as I said, I spoke with the commissioner to try to
placate the spirits ...
Q. - It has moved away from the middle?
ANSWER - then, yes, yes, I have moved away.
Q. - So you do not know who then drove the half after she moved away from there.
ANSWER - No, not because I saw the license plate number or the driver I reconnected to the medium
completely.
Q. - So when I ask her if she has not put on the bottles, did not know who was the driver.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Do you agree?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - And then she is not mounted on the vehicle and therefore does not know who has guided you
today as you say it was half of that quell'autista Burgio?
ANSWER - Why then, suddenly ...
Q. - Why did he tell someone, he said Burgio, Burgio the challenged statements?
ANSWER - Because Burgio, Burgio said certain things because I had read in the ...
Q. - So after the said Burgio said so she said so.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
QUESTION - Thank you.
ANSWER - We have reconstructed through even think we've read together with the PM the order of
service, ie the whole configuration, say, the services, we saw that day who could act as a driver, we
started by exclusion because what I did not remember, huh, and then we arrived at Burgio, because I
repeat ...
Q. - Do you have rebuilt this thing together?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - But this is the logical reasoning served to get his memory, in the sense that ...
ANSWER - Yes, then after m'è served, then after I was ...
Q. - But if you told me that when he put the bottles on the vehicle and that no one was there when she
was removed from the bottles, right?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - This vehicle has not used, was then used by someone.
ANSWER - Burgio says, okay, I read his comments were ...
Q. - So says Burgio.
ANSWER - What was I by that means to take.
Q. - I mean so she says that half the driving Burgio.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Why have disputed the statements of Burgio, who says so?
ANSWER - Yes, well.
Q. - Is that it?
ANSWER - No, the statements of Burgio challenged me by saying that in the next step Burgio stated
that I had said certain things I can not remember. Identification of the driver we arrived ...
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - Mr. President, excuse me, the lawyer refers to statements of the accused
Burgio, can not evoke so generically, because the accused Burgio need to see what I say on this point
and the environment ' interpretation that is conveying the lawyer at this time, not to mention 'ste
statements so loosely.
Q. - No, I asked one more thing ...
PRESIDENT - It seems to me that they are mentioned by the witness, not a lawyer. However, the
heads tell us ... who knows what he has direct knowledge. Then you have to declare whether or not
we will see this.
ANSWER - To direct knowledge ...
Q. - Then I ask, I'm sorry, I do it to him so close the question. For direct knowledge, right?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - You know that half of what she says she placed the bottles, it says that he remembers, he has not
rebuilt on logic, was ...
ANSWER - The way I remember it, the bottles that I put on the machine I remember them ...
Q. - That you remember.
ANSWER - The driver of the vehicle at that time there was nobody inside the car, so ...
Q. - And you then suddenly he was gone.
ANSWER - I do then I moved away ...
Q. - So I ask: can not tell us directly for information that led him Burgio half that because the saw
guide and was not on the medium.
ANSWER - Yes, but then the reconstructions we have established that the vehicle was ... why not ...
Q. - Yes, but the reconstruction, I ask what is the reconstruction?
ANSWER - The reconstruction that we have done together with the PM When I was questioned when,
in fact, we went to see who was in the availability, we got to jail for Burgio I remember exactly the time
I had to take to the police station to take me there. Then Burgio said on that occasion that he had
asked ...
Q. - No, never mind what he says Burgio.
REPLY - Oh, that's all. No, but when I actually store the bottles on the medium does not plug the
middle Burgio, absolutely. So much so that I had difficulty in remembering.
Q. - I do not even know who leaves and who is the driver of the half when the vehicle goes on.
ANSWER - No, absolutely.
Q. - With the bottles above.
ANSWER - No, absolutely.
Q. - Do you know if the bottles when the vehicle leaves were still above the middle?
ANSWER - I do not know, I can not say.
Q. - You did not see a half away?
ANSWER - Absolutely not, I have gone before, okay, I went to the protesters, I repeat, together with
the Police, we parliament, then came the famous phone call Mr Jordan or his representative, however,
the commissioner told me accompany him, I moved away, in the meantime those means are gone ...
Q. - You have seen that the half? That vehicle he climbed into the bottles has seen?
ANSWER - I could not swear. They are mounted on armored Magnum when the police went back to
the Fair, however, if the specific means that only deduce from the fact ...
Q. - When you are mounted on the half ...
ANSWER - No, no.
Q. - To go to the police station ...
ANSWER - I can not say that there was half that, no, absolutely.
Q. - He smelled of gasoline in the middle?
ANSWER - No.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Thank you, no question.

DEFENSE - MR. ROMANELLI

QUESTION - In response to these questions that the lawyer has done before me it is possible that the
medium on which she placed the bag with the bottles may have been driven by someone else in the
meantime?
ANSWER - Look, this is not me ... I can not rule out ... usually when he comes out with a half
quell'autista driver and is responsible, then he can not guide another.
Q. - But that could have happened for a while to get back to the police has led another?
ANSWER - It is hard, anything is possible ...
Q. - But can not exclude it.
ANSWER - No, I can not exclude it, but usually does not happen because, I repeat, when you leave
the vehicle, I repeat, is taken quell'autista plate and usually does not give it to another ...
Q. - But you have not seen boarding the vehicle and bring it Burgio.
ANSWER - No, no, I do not remember.
Q. - I can reconstruct briefly as it sees fit, or rather this meeting that she had to the police station the
next day with Dr. Singers?
ANSWER - Yes, it was a meeting, I repeat, fleeting, I worried about what I had been told by the
French police official who said "I was awake all night for calls from Paris," and I worried because the
Singers 'I sent myself that night, well, meeting him I met Dr. Singers who told me, I say ...
Q. - She asked him what had happened?
ANSWER - Yes, I tell him: "But tonight that ...", says: "We have nothing to do nothing." Here, that was
the phrase that calmed me. "
Q. - So it was a specific request to its Registry?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - Why do you remember the night before he had to charge Singers ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Or did he at least Singers assigned to this task.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Beyond "we have nothing to do" there was some other explanation?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not.
Q. - That is not said because it had nothing to do?
ANSWER - No, this was explained to me. He said "we are not involved in anything, when we have
already entered it was all done", but there could swear words. However not the responsibility of,
say ...
Q. - Of his staff.
RESPONSE - its staff.
Q. - So these things attributed to other staff, not his.
ANSWER - For other staff, to someone, now this ...
Q. - You know, Dr. Singers knew a long time?
ANSWER - Sure, sure.
Q. - Dr. Singers, as Commander of the seventh mobile unit ...
REPLY - Of the first mobile unit.
Q. - Of course the first mobile unit had made other such operations, or more dangerous?
RESPONSE - In what sense is this kind of operations?
Q. - Do you remember that not long before there was an intervention of this category of fans on a train
to Rome?
ANSWER - Why not? Yes, yes.
Q. - And the behavior in that episode you remember?
ANSWER - in that ... But I was no longer the department, I almost Singers replaced me, but I seem to
recall that it was normal behavior, in short, a speech I made in a workmanlike manner, in other words.
Now ...
Q. - You knew a department professional help?
ANSWER - Yes, of course, was the department that we had the best prepared, in other words, items
were chosen because, well, that should have been, in fact, constitute, so to speak, a bit '...
Q. - Well, as you might know Dr. Singers and his department, when he said "we are not involved in
anything," she had difficulty believing?
ANSWER - No, absolutely not. So much so that I then made this statement and communicated to the
Prefect Longo ... I do not know if he called me or I phoned him this frankly ... no, I told him, I say: "look
at the departments there ' eh come, Dr. Singers told me that we have nothing to do nothing. "
QUESTION - Thank you.
ANSWER - So if I had any doubt I would clearly unbalanced in this way. Then I remember I remember
that after a couple of hours later, however, two, three hours later I telephoned again and said the
Prefect Longo, says: "But look - he says - that here you are saying that the department is moving in
Rome he has done. " Here.
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - Thanks.

DEFENSE - Attorney CORINI

Q. - I wanted to go to a second chain of command that you described, which included the figure of Dr.
Trojans that afternoon.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - As regards the service of so-called patrols, she said it depended on the Trojans Dr. Dr.
Calderozzi.
ANSWER - Yes, because Dr. Calderozzi was practically an official who was appointed to coordinate,
in short, to command them.
Q. - Now, that she knew for sure?
ANSWER - No, absolutely. This I learned later. I do not ... I do not know if I said the Trojans now,
maybe in one of those phone calls that are referenced by the PM I frankly do not remember which.
No, I ... I put these patrols were requested by the Police and the police station I sent Dr. Trojans along
with thirty men at the disposal of the police. And in that day did not know he was the manager
Calderozzi. I learned later.
Q. - You have learned after Dr. Calderozzi had the responsibility of service for the squads.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - Stop the service on the squads, fall to the police station and she received that phone call, as I
understand, in which a request is made to personnel in a rather sudden and urgent?
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Questions - we speak of another operation.
ANSWER - Yes, because that ... not the squads, I was talking, I was told that there should have been,
say, an operation, right?
Q. - And ...
ANSWER - Urgent.
Q. - And so it was an entirely different service from the previous squads, because you yourself do not
budgeted.
ANSWER - Yes, yes.
Q. - What in the second operation there was a responsibility of Dr. Calderozzi in the command of Dr.
Troiani she's aware or not, and if so how do you say?
ANSWER - No, no. Well, because they were ... he was referring to Calderozzi, okay, then asked
Calderozzi.
Q. - For the squads.
ANSWER - For squads.
Q. - I'm talking about instead of the second operation.
ANSWER - Always And all that band then moved along to Dr. Calderozzi and other officials ...
Q. - Do you forgive me, said she first moved to Diaz all, she said "went to Dr. Calderozzi, I was at the
disposal of Dr. Calderozzi", these are his exact words.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - This "I" is his assessment was that when his ...
ANSWER - One of my evaluation.
Q. - Do you know if he came to Diaz, for example, along with Dr. Calderozzi came with the
department or furniture?
ANSWER - No, no, no, I know that came along with the men he had commanded him to ... well, short.

Q. - But does not know if he came first Calderozzi?

ANSWER - No, no, no, I do not know if it came before, if he came after ...
Q. - So there is absolutely unable to confirm the Court that in the second part of the evening the
Trojans were up to Calderozzi?
ANSWER - No, it's my guess, I infer from the ...
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - Thank you.

CHAIRMAN - Any further questions? No? You're welcome.

INTERVENTION - (Off microphone)
DEFENSE - Attorney Corini - He can not make claims to the plaintiff, Mr. President, if you did not ...
PRESIDENT - If you have questions had to do them in response to requests made by the prosecutor.
THE CIVIL - Lawyer Walks - There are questions arising from cross-examination.
PRESIDENT - If the cross examination revealed some other news or something else let's see if the
question is irrelevant. We hear ...

CIVIL PARTY - MR. RIDE

Q. - I would go back on how ...
PRESIDENT - Lawyer, first tell us the question, then see if it is relevant to the examination.
Q. - Yes, it was concerning the identification of Burgio as a driver in response to the questions of the
lawyer Di Bugno.
PRESIDENT - Please.
Q. - It is permissible? Thank you President. I asked her this, to reconstruct the process by which you
arrived to find Burgio as a driver.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - President, this is not shown, is a repeat, there is opposition.
PRESIDENT - We have already said, a lawyer, has already talked about everything.
Q. - Okay. She also points out in Piazzale Kennedy Burgio at the moment ...
ANSWER - Kennes Piazzale Roma would be the Fair?
Q. - Yes.
ANSWER - Yes, right?
THE CIVIL - Mr. Stroll - Thank you, no question.

PRESIDENT
Q. - You said you put the bottles in half, Magnum.
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - There were several Magnum?
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - How many were there?
ANSWER - Well, this could not quantify it, there were various means.
Q. - Magnum ...
ANSWER - including Magnum.
Q. - Here, because the Magnum can be distinguished, which means it is not mingle.
ANSWER - Yes, but there were many here, Mr. President.
Q. - There were several.
ANSWER - So there were several Magnum, here, is not that there was one.
Q. - When she came back and then got back on the Magnum which was then accompanied to the
citadel ...
ANSWER - Yes.
Q. - The Magnum was conducted?
RESPONSE - From Burgio.
Q. - It was in the same location where she had left the one where he had placed the bottles or was
another magnum?
REPLY - But look, the Magnum is everybody the same, but I think so.
Q. - They are equal if they moved or remained stationary?
ANSWER - I did not understand.
Q. - If you were still in place or have been moved.
ANSWER - No, Burgio takes me by the police to accompany the exhibition.
Q. - So you came back.
ANSWER - So ...
Q. - So it can not tell if it was the same.
ANSWER - I think it was the same. However, it is my feeling, I mean that I can not say exactly,
because in that situation if I had the bottles behind the event and, as I asked the lawyer, I have not
smelled gasoline. So ... here.
Q. - You do not know what happened to these bottles, which she said the Magnum? If you made a
record of seizure, if there was ..
ANSWER - No, I know absolutely nothing.
Q. - It has multiple views.
ANSWER - Watch President, I after I saw the pretty bottles when I showed them to Dr. Guaglione,
here, we must also consider the circumstances of time and place where the events took place, okay?
I just I have deleted. I later when memory begins to take on the newspaper story I cover this further,
but then ...
Q. - You were the bag in which she saw these bottles right?
ANSWER - Yes, I remember quite well the bag. Celestine I remember it was a bag of the normal kind
of supermarket, in other words.
Q. - There were written, there was nothing?
ANSWER - No, I do not remember writing, exclude the fact. ... It was a bag without a bag so no
headers, an anonymous ... Celestine.
PRESIDENT - by the prosecutor could make the movie 8:55 minutes to find 199?
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - Excuse me President, meanwhile, the question you addressed to Mr.
Donnini on which Magnum is gone or less where he went on the Magnum in Piazzale Kennedy, he
went to the police station.
PRESIDENT - It was I who had misunderstood.
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - No, here, to clarify if you do not ...
PRESIDENT - It is very clear.
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - Among other things he said that on that Magnum did not even smell of
gasoline, so it was ... all right.
PRESIDENT - Lawyer, we do not repeat what he said the witness, it's all recorded.
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - No, no ...
ANSWER - Look, to be precise, to be precise I do not remember, okay, if I was escorted to the police
station and then escorted by police at the Fair with the machine Burgio Burgio, I do not remember
this, I definitely remember ... instead of by the Police I was taken to the Fair, I was taken by Magnum
driven by the agent Burgio, okay, but I did not feel the smell of gasoline. Then clearly, in short, she
remember that I work without masks, without having worn the mask ...
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - Without you feel better mask the smell.
ANSWER - Please?
DEFENCE - Mr. Romanelli - Without you feel better mask the smell.
ANSWER - Yes No, but keep in mind that I had worked during the day without a mask, so ... But,
behold, I honestly do not smell of petrol I've heard.
PRESIDENT - when she returned, in short, from Piazzale Kennedy did not return to the police station
on ...
ANSWER - I do not remember if this is ... I do not know ... I do not remember if I went with the
commissioner, but then again I do not think that the commissioner had a tire slashed. Okay? Now if
m'abbia Burgio accompanied to the police station or someone else frankly I have no memory. Okay? I
do have that memory of me back to the Fair Burgio, okay, with some urgency because we had to
organize these squads.
PRESIDENT - The problem was finding the first 199 RIF. REP. 44 minutes 8.55.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - We can ask the witness if he can close well, because they are those
famous thirteen seconds, so ...
PRESIDENT - We can stop it.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - Doctor, it is likely that you can unplug the microphone and take it with you.

PRESIDENT - Well, let the image as well stop here. You can establish or rule out that the bag you see
is what you saw with the bottles?
ANSWER - Well, what seems to me a bag Celestine.
PRESIDENT - What I'm asking you is whether you think or say can be excluded.
ANSWER - No, no.
CHAIRMAN - It may be that?
ANSWER - It may be that, surely.
Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - We can see, as we also see something inside the bag, if the heads are
closer to the screen, but if you close the screen, there is something sticking out of the bag, so it can
help his visual memory.
ANSWER - I do not see anything though. Frankly, I see something here that sticks out, but I do not
know, I do not know what. However, the bag was of that type.
PRESIDENT - It is of that type.
ANSWER - Celestine.
CHAIRMAN - Thank you. Have more questions?

DEFENSE - MR. Di Bugno

Q. - Donnini, but I think I understand those words, as will be understood too, are important. I ask that
in that bag to see now what they did recognize similar with respect to the bag, which identifies
characteristics compared to the bag ...
ANSWER - The fact that Celestine.
Q. - Just what?
ANSWER - Yes indeed I have described before as kind of a plastic bag to the supermarket with no
writing.
Q. - You saw him there in the picture on one side only, has noticed?
ANSWER - I did not understand.
Q. - Is there a chance, Mr President, do see the movie to see if you can also see the other side of the
bag?
PRESIDENT - The witness told us that the bag is of that type, does not say that and neither is nor that
it is not, of that type. He did not rule out and then just seems to me that now we're going to look too ...
Q. - I explain what is the next question.
PRESIDENT - Please.
Q. - She first claimed to have seen, when shown it to him Guaglione around the bag from all sides
and had not seen written, right?
ANSWER - No, no, I've seen 'I'm not that bag ... I did ...
Q. - No, if you remember out of the bag had the written?
ANSWER - No, absolutely, he had written.
Q. - The bag that had not seen written.
ANSWER - I had written that absolutely rule out the bag.
DEFENCE - Mr. Di Bugno - Okay, thanks.

PRESIDENT - Other things?

Prosecutor - Mr. Pumpkin - I would ask, Mr. President, if we can get the order to which he referred in
his deposition that the witness is indicating the tasks of the task force at its disposal and also an
indication of available staff . A document, an order ...
PRESIDENT - I believe that there is no opposition. So the gain. The witness we can fire? Yes.
Once all the questions, the witness is dismissed.

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This report was prepared by Meeting Service SpA

The Auxiliary Technical: Mr. Burati