Ways preBCC 17-11-29 PDF

Republic of the Philippines
Congress of the Philippines

SENATE
Pasay City
PRE-BICAMERAL CONFERENCE COMMITTEE

ON THE DISAGREEING PROVISIONS OF
SENATE BILL NO. 1592 AND HOUSE BILL NO. 5636
(TAX REFORM FOR ACCELERATION AND INCLUSION)
DATE : Wednesday, November 29, 2017
TIME : 10:00 am.
VENUE : Sen. Claro M. Recto and Sen. Jose P. Laurel Rooms

2nd Floor, Senate of the Philippines
Financial Center, Roxas Boulevard
Pasay City
AGENDA : SENATE BILL NO. 1592 - AN ACT AMENDING

SECTIONS 5, 6, 24, 25, 31, 34, 35, 51, 79, 84, 86, 89,
90, 97, 99, 100, 101, 106, 107, 108, 109, 112, 114,
116, 148, 149, 150, 151, 155, 171, 196, 232, 237, 249,
264, AND 288; CREATING NEW SECTIONS 148-A, 150-
A, 237-A, 264-A, 264-B, AND 265-A; ALL UNDER
REPUBLIC ACT NO. 8424, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE
NATIONAL INTERNAL REVENUE CODE OF 1997, AS
AMENDED, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES
HOUSE BILL NO. 5636 - AN ACT AMENDING

SECTIONS 5, 6, 22, 24, 25, 31, 32, 33, 34, 79, 84, 86,
99, 106, 107, 108, 109, 116, 148, 149, 155, 171, 232,
237, 254, 264 AND 288; CREATING NEW SECTIONS
148-A, 237-A, 264-A, 264-B AND 265-A; AND
REPEALING SECTIONS 35 AND 62, ALL UNDER THE
NATIONAL INTERNAL REVENUE CODE OF 1997, AS
AMENDED
1
Pre-Bicameral Conference Committee on the Disagreeing Provisions of
Senate Bill No. 1592 and House Bill No. 5636 (Tax Reform for Acceleration and Inclusion)
November 29, 2017 (Wednesday)
Page |2
ATTENDANCE
SENATE PANEL:
ATTY. RODELIO T. DASCIL - Presiding Officer; Director General, Senate

Tax Study and Research Office (STSRO)
MS. MARIA LUCRECIA R. MIR - Director III, Direct Taxes Branch, STSRO
MS. VIVIAN A. CABILING - Director III, Indirect Taxes Branch, STSRO
MR. NORBERTO M. VILLANUEVA - Director II, Tax Policy Branch, STSRO
MS. SHERRY ANNE C. SALAZAR - Director II, Indirect Taxes Branch, STSRO
MS. ELVIRA CRUDO - Director II, Direct Taxes Branch, STSRO
SENATOR’S STAFF:
ATTY. HOMER ALINSUG - O/S Angara
ATTY. JUNE NILLAMA - O/S Angara
MR. ERDIE AMBROSIO - O/S Angara
ATTY. GRACE S. ARBOLADUVA - O/SP Pimentel
MR. JOSEPH IRVIN OBENZA - O/S Recto
MS. MICHEL C. PALMA - O/S Recto
MR. ALEMAR MOSQUITO - O/S Recto
MS. JANE CRISTINO - O/S Zubiri
MR. DAVE TORRES - O/S Zubiri
ATTY. CZARINA SERRANO - O/S Drilon
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Pre-Bicameral Conference Committee on the Disagreeing Provisions of
Senate Bill No. 1592 and House Bill No. 5636 (Tax Reform for Acceleration and Inclusion)
November 29, 2017 (Wednesday)
Page |3
HOUSE PANEL:
MR. DONALD Z. MARASIGAN - Deputy Executive Director, Committee on

Ways and Means
MR. MAURICIO PULHIN - Service Director
MS. CARMEN JIMENEZ - SLSO II, Committee on Ways and Means
MS. JONA NAVARETTE - SLSO I, Committee on Ways and Means
MR. MARTI PHILIP LINA - SLSO I, Committee on Ways and Means
MR. JUSTIN MUYOT - Committe on Ways and Means
GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:
HON. KARL KENDRICK CHUA - Undersecretary, Department of Finance

(DOF)
MS. TRINIDAD A. RODRIGUEZ - Executive Director, National Tax Research

Center (NTRC)
SENATE SECRETARIAT:
Ms. Anna Leah C. Catimbang - Committee Stenographer

Ms. Jo B. Cadaing - Committee Stenographer
Ms. Jennifer L. Flores - Committee Stenographer
Ms. Nida A. Mancol - Committee Stenographer
Mr. Guillermo E. Sapinoso Jr. - Committee Stenographer
Ms. Marivic H. Ulep - Committee Stenographer
Ms. Jeanne M. Baisa - Committee Stenographer
Ms. Christine M. Nery - Committee Stenographer
Ms. Cindell B. Gealan - Committee Stenographer
Ms. Susana Grace Robles - Committee Stenographer
(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)
3
PRE-BICAMERAL CONFERENCE COMMITTEE ON THE
DISAGREEING PROVISIONS OF SENATE BILL NO. 1592 AND
HOUSE BILL NO. 5636 (TAX REFORM AND ACCELERATION AND
INCLUSION)
Aliccatimbang I-1 November 29, 2017 11:01 a.m. 1
AT 11:01 A.M., ATTY. RODELIO T. DASCIL,

PRESIDING OFFICER, CALLED THE MEETING TO
ORDER.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Good morning. In behalf of the
Chair of the Committee on Ways and Means, Senator Angara, and the
chief of staff, Atty. Fatima, on behalf of the Senate, we call now the
pre-bicam meeting for the technical staff in order.
MR. MARASIGAN. Recorded ba ito? Recorded?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. For reference lang.
MR. MARASIGAN. On the part ng Committee on Ways and
Means, we have here Director Mauricio Pulhin, Atty. Richard from the
office of Chairman Dakila Cua, Mr. Philip Marti Lina—Anak ka ba ni
Commissioner Lina?—si Jona at saka si Carmen on the part of the
House, at saka si Justine kay Chairman Cua.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Of course, on the part of the
STSRO, nandito iyong mga directors ko but I will not mention them
anymore one by one. I’ll just ask from our conferees to be recognized.
Starting from my left, from the office of senator--?
MS. SERRANO. I’m Czarina Serrano from the Office of Senator
Drilon.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Now, from my right.
4
INCLUSION)
MS. NILLAMA. Atty. June Nillama from the Office of Senator
Angara.
MR. AMBROCIO. Rudy Ambrocio, Office of Senator Angara.
MR. MOSQUITO. Atty. Alemar Mosquito from the Office of
Senator Recto.
MR. TORRES. Dave Torres from the Office of Senator Zubiri.
MS. CRISTINO. Jane Cristino from the Office of Senator Zubiri.
MS. ARBOLADURA. Good morning. Atty. Grace Arboladura
from Office of the Senate President.
MS. PALMA. Good morning. Mitch Palma, O/S Recto.
MR. OBENZA. Good morning. Joseph Obenza from the Office of
Senator Recto.
MS. RODRIGUEZ. Good morning. Trinidad Rodriguez from the
National Tax Research Center.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. We recognize our resource person.
Yesterday, it was mentioned the “honorary senator,” Doctor,
Undersecretary Karl Chua, Department of Finance. Honorary senator
ka na yesterday. And, of course, the executive director of National Tax
Research Center, Trinidad Rodriguez.
For today, in consultation with the House and the Department of
Finance, we wish to accomplish five things for our conferees. One,
5
INCLUSION)
iyong schedule natin; second, to have a common bicam; third, is to
have a common matrix of each provision pertaining to rates on specific
topic; fourth, kaya nandito iyong Department of Finance together with
the finance family, sina Director Juvy, is to have estimates of the
House and the Senate version to be validated by the Department of
Finance; five, later in the day, we will discuss per topic the possible
issues to be resolved, let’s say, on income tax, on automobile, sugar,
sweet and beverages, only issues that to be resolved by our principal.
And finally, all those unresolved similar things like what we did when
we discussed sin taxes before in 2012 to be considered in a one matrix
na para in principle wala namang disagreement. If that is okay sa
House of Representatives. With that, we can now start kung mayroon
na po.
Initially, we have a working matrix to be improved kasi may mga
typographical error. Ito po iyong working matrix natin, House Bill
5636 at saka SB 1592. So parang preliminary conference ito sa korte.
Kung may copy reproduce na natin. Pero let’s proceed doon sa easier.
MR. CHUA. Wala pa kaming kopya, Mr. Chair. May we get at
least a copy?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Pakibigyan naman si Honorary
Senator Dr. Chua.
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INCLUSION)
Okay. Before sa matrix, doon muna tayo sa admin matter. If it
is agreeable to the House of Representative para ma-relay na rin sa—
although a preliminary discussion. Erdy, do you want to discuss iyong
schedule? So kaya nga iyong ano natin, iyong minutes natin at saka
iyong topic for government lang. Agreeable sa House? The proper
bicam will be on December 1, Friday?
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes, Friday, 2 p.m.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay, agreed.
So paki-note lang iyong sa technical report natin, December 1, 2
p.m., Senate.
MR. MARASIGAN. Senate.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Same room.
Whatever will be resolved, do we agree to have a technical
meeting? When?
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes, on December 4, 10 a.m. at House.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Puwede ba afternoon na lang?
Para kasi kung technical report, both of us will be writing. Puwede
mga two? Puwede afternoon, okay lang? May flag raising kasi.
MR. MARASIGAN. Kasi kung it will be starting at 2 p.m.—
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. One.
MR. MARASIGAN. One?
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INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Kasi pag 10, papakainin niyo pa
kami ng lunch.
MR. MARASIGAN. Hindi, talagang nagpahanda na kami. May
caterer na para sa iyo lang.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Lunch na lang.
MR. MARASIGAN. 10 a.m. para mahaba iyong ating time to—
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Boss, a-attend pa kami ng flag
raising. Ten thirty?
MR. MARASIGAN. Sige, 10:30. Sayang kasi iyong lunch na
na-reserve para sa inyo.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay. Technical meeting to write
whatever will be agreed on December 1.
MR. MARASIGAN. December 1, yes.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. That’s December 4. Technical
lang.
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Second bicam meeting of the
conferees.
MR. MARASIGAN. Iyong place lang noong December 4, sa
Andaya Room.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Andaya Room.
8
INCLUSION)
MR. MARASIGAN. Oo.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Meeting of the conferees. Kailan
ang agreed sa inyo, boss? December 5, okay?
MR. MARASIGAN. December 5, yes.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Venue?
MR. MARASIGAN. 10 a.m., sa House din.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Erdy, okay ang 10 a.m. o 10:30
uli? Puwede, boss, 10:30?
MR. MARASIGAN. Puwede namang maghintay mga 10:30,
nandoon na kami sa 10 o’clcok.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And our target will be December 6
for the finalization of report and the joint explanatory, if agreeable?
MR. MARASIGAN. Saan ang venue natin? House din,
December 6.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. House din?
MR. MARASIGAN. Okay.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Hindi. Iyong December 6, TBA na
lang, boss?
MR. MARASIGAN. Ano iyon?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. To be announced—
MR. MARASIGAN. Later.
9
INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Pagka December 6, finalization of
report.
MR. MARASIGAN. Sige.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Kasi dalawa na sa Senate, dalawa
na sa House. Iyong December 6, TBA na lang. Okay. Basta that’s our
target para music to the ears of the Department of Finance. Okay.
Second, there will be two official documents na kailangan nating
matapos by December 6. One is the body, body noong conference
report. Although both of us will review it, dapat may principal na in
charge at saka mayroong—the second one is the joint expla. Dapat
may principal din from your part at saka mayroon ding reviewer on our
part. We will take the initiative to do the body. Okay lang ba sa inyo?
And we’ll assign Erdy, Atty. June, Atty. Salazar on our part and
Director Mir—Buddy, his reconciled version.
MR. MARASIGAN. I think, Buddy, we should be both reviewing
it.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Oo nga, review it.
MR. MARASIGAN. And I would like to emphasize na ang
gamitin nating working draft is the House version.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, of course.
MR. MARASIGAN. Thank you.
10
INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Joint expla, can you handle it like
we did in CMA?
MR. MARASIGAN. Sure. Then i-review na lang ninyo.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay.
Wala si ano—sa CMA? Hindi ko nakita.
MR. MARASIGAN. Atty. Jean? She will participate in the
drafting of the joint expla.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. And we will also assign Director
Bong, Director Elvie--sa joint expla—at saka si Director Cabiling.
Kung tapos na tayo sa mga admin … /alicc
11
HOUSE BILL NO. 5636 (TAX REFORM FOR ACCELERATION AND
INCLUSION)
JTBCadaing II-1 November 29, 2017 11:11 a.m. 1
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. … Kung tapos na tayo sa mga
admin—okay na iyon?
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay. Thank you.
Habang wala pang bicam, can we ask now our resource person,
just for the record, para pagdating sa conference sa Friday—Boss
Donald, okay?—para iyong estimates okay na sa mga conferees natin.
Can we ask the Department of Finance kung nakagawa sila ng
estimate on both our version? Now, we recognize honorary senator
Chua.
MR. CHUA. Mr. Chair, nasa minutes ba iyon ng plenary
kahapon? May I get a copy for posting on my office?
Anyway, thank you very much. We prepared three sets of
estimates. The first is the amended House version and then we have
the Senate version, low and high scenarios.
May kopya na ba sila? Maybe we should give copies to at least
the House and the Senate key people.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What document?
MR. CHUA. Basically, there are three documents. So the
revised House—nakalagay, “House Bill 5636 revised,” and then you
12
INCLUSION)
have the TRAIN revenue estimates, Senate iyan, low and high
scenario.
Mayroon na po kayo?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Ipapa-photocopy na lang natin sa
mga conferees natin.
MR. CHUA. Okay, sige. You want to take a quick break muna,
photocopy or--?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Sige, ipa-photocopy muna. Hindi
masusundan kasi may conferees na sa Senate.
MR. CHUA. Okay. Let’s photocopy first.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Suspend natin for copy na walang
coffee.
[THE MEETING WAS SUSPENDED AT 11:14 A.M.]
[THE MEETING WAS RESUMED AT 11:17 A.M.]
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes. Can we resume, Usec? Doon
muna sa—habang pino-photocopy iyong iba—iyong House Bill 5636
revised.
MR. CHUA. Siguro I’ll start with the highlights na lang. Iyong
total ng House bill revised—because of either new data, clarification on
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INCLUSION)
the methodology—iyong 134 is revised downwards to 129.3 billion.
That is the highlight of the House. So minor difference lang iyon.
Then on the Senate side, there are two scenarios: low and high.
The official DOF numbers that we will adopt is the low. So yesterday,
we have presented to the Senate a total of 103 billion based on what
we have understood from the amendments. However, based on the
actual bill that was approved yesterday in particular on the petroleum,
which we had originally thought we will adopt the initial idea of
Senator Recto to adjust some of the rates upwards, the total for the
low version of the Senate is now 90.8 billion. The high version which
has more relaxed assumptions, sa Senate side, is 106.78 billion. So
iyan iyong highlight.
The Senate side included, using the low version, 41.64 billion of
additional taxes not found in the House version. In particular, these
are the cosmetics, coal, mining, FCDU, capital gains, doc stamp and
some adjustments in the admin provisions like the withholding tax
rates.
Atty. Dascil, do you want me to go through the details or we will
stop here until we have the printouts?
14
INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay lang unless may clarification.
Kasi sa staff ng mga conferees, technical staff.
MR. CHUA. So I’ll stop here muna.
MR. CHUA. Okay, thank you.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Unless you have clarification. From
the office of Senators Drilon, Recto, Angara, Zubiri? None so far.
So the DOF presented to us official documents, iyong “House Bill
5636 Revised.” So ito na rin iyong idi-distribute natin sa conferees
natin. Of course, we will take both on our side. One page lang iyon,
hindi ba? One pager.
Then iyong TRAIN revenue estimate low scenario—para maibigay
din sa kanilang mga principal—three pages. And high scenario TRAIN
revenue estimates, three pages also … /jbc
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INCLUSION)
JLFLORES III-1 November 29, 2017 11:21 a.m. 1
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. ... And high scenario TRAIN
revenue estimates, three pages also.
MR. CHUA. Excuse lang. I forgot to mention. Those revenues
are based on the entire Package 1. Just to clarify, iyong Package 1
comprises originally three bills. The first is the amendments to the
NIRC, which is what we have. The second is the estate tax amnesty
which the House already passed. That’s around six billion. The third
bill is the amendments to the MVUC, which is pending in the House and
the Senate at the Committee, however, in different committees, not
the Ways and Means. So, the MVUC is 19 billion. So, total of mga 25
billion included in the total computation of Package 1 that have yet to
be finalized. So, the actual revenue is dependent on getting these two
bills passed. So, that is the concern. And I understand in the Senate,
there’s idea to have a general amnesty, which we are not sure also
when that will pass. So, the actual revenues for next year maybe
lower if these two are not passed together as early as first quarter.
And then if there’s a general amnesty, we have to do recomputation.
Because in the Senate version, we took away the exchange of
information, bank secrecy to be included, I understand, in the
amnesty. So, we have to have some recomputation.
16
INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. For the information of the
Department of Finance and our partners in the House of
Representatives, nag-conduct na ng hearing on the estate amnesty
taking into account your House bill. And in coordination with the office
of Senator Angara and minority leader, iyong report namin will be
general amnesty. And pina-finalize na, may final input lang kagabi si
Senator Drilon. It will be—hopefully, to be reported out today. And
we will also relay to you that. Kung makikita niyo iyong Senate
version, wala diyan iyong automatic exchange of information and bank
secrecy because we included that in our substitute bill on the tax
amnesty. So, that’s one of the differences now ng 1592 and 5636.
Rest assured, Usec, na it will be routed hopefully today.
And we have also now—With that, na-accomplish na natin ang
two things. Kung wala kayong comments doon sa mga estimates—
Yes.
MR. MARASIGAN. Usec. Clarify ko lang kay Usec.
What’s the difference between the low scenario and the high
scenario? What assumptions did you consider here?
MR. CHUA. Ganito po. There are several taxes that were
proposed by the Senate in the last few weeks. They have not gone
through very rigorous study, especially on the impact on behavior,
17
INCLUSION)
elasticity. That is why we have low and high. Unlike iyong original
proposal ng DOF which was somehow adopted by the House and
Senate as amended, we are more certain. So, for instance, doc stamp.
If you double almost everything, we only assume an 80 percent
effective compliance rate whereas the Senate assumes 100 percent.
So, those are the differences. Kasi these are for future packages which
should have gone through more rigorous study. However, in the
interest of time, we need to come up with an estimate. So, may
range.
Another example is when they propose to reduce the withholding
from 1 to 32 percent to 1 to 10 percent. We are not sure if reducing
the withholding, eventually you will collect it. Is it only a cash flow
issue or a compliance issue? Kasi the purpose of withholding is to
secure the revenues early. If you reduce it, we are gambling on the
fact whether they will actually pay the balance. So, we have been
more prudent or conservative and then the Senate, I think, is more
optimistic. So, those are the examples. In the interest of time, may
range.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Ma’am Mitch Palma, OS Recto.
MS. PALMA. Usec, clarification lang po on the revenue
estimates on the Senate version, both for the high and the low
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INCLUSION)
scenario. We noticed that there is an item here on the estate tax
amnesty, a revenue gain of six billion. As far as we understand, there
is no provision in the Senate bill passed on the estate tax amnesty.
MR. CHUA. That one and the MVUC. So, we can agree to just
remove everything across the board. But for consistency’s sake kasi,
we are comparing all revenues as originally proposed. So, we can
decide to just remove everything na hindi pa na-pass, including the
House. So, the 129 sa House will fall equivalently. But as discussed
with the office of Senator Angara, we will maintain for comparison
purposes. So, we can remove everything or just keep everything,
depending on what will be the outcome in the next few months. So,
we are okay with that—to remove everything or keep everything.
Basta ma-compare lang properly.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Ma’am.
MS. SERRANO. Usec Karl, clarification lang po dito sa revenue
estimate for the Senate. It still maintains the 15 billion estimated
revenues for exchange of information and bank secrecy which we
deleted in the Senate version.
MR. CHUA. Okay. In the low version, we maintained half of
that, 7.5 billion. We’re thinking the general amnesty will be passed
and sometime next year, not implementable at the start. In the high
19
INCLUSION)
version of the Senate, we kept the 15, the full amount, assuming it will
be passed very quickly and implementable very quickly. So, iyon ang
difference. So, those are the examples na may high and low because
we’re not sure what will happen. So, depends on the timing.
MR. MUYOT. Usec, clarification lang. So, if tatanggalin po
iyong mga bills na hindi pa na-pass, 25 billion for both versions iyong
decrease?
MR. CHUA. Yes, across the board iyan.
MR. MUYOT. So, magiging siyang 104 for House and 65 for
Senate?
MR. CHUA. Yes, that will be the case.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Siguro puwede na rin.
Pahihirapan pa natin sila, Usec, kung agree tayo. Lagyan na lang nila
ng legend na—on separate bill kesa naman i-delete nila kasi working
paper nila.
MR. CHUA. Sige. We can put a footnote on that to clarify. So,
we can do parang whatever was passed and mga pending to follow.
So, we will revise.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you. Salamat.
20
INCLUSION)
May clarification pa kayo dito? Para ito na rin iyong idi-distribute
na material about 5636 revised low scenario and high scenario? If not,
can we go to another things na dapat nating ma-settle?
We’ll now go to the—before iyong specific provision—iyong
summary ng rates or provision per topic. Siguro first dito iyong
personal income tax. Along that line, siguro for the conferees, we will
just ask—bukod dito sa general matrix, mayroon sigurong documents
about comparison, let’s say, na provision nung income tax. Tapos, we
request our partner from the Department of Finance, hindi ba,
although nakalagay na dito sina Director Juvy(?) kung ano iyong
estimate along that line. Tapos puwede na rin iyong issues. Now, we
can discuss the issues. Pero pakilagay na lang doon sa things to be
resolved.
Let’s now go on the personal income tax.
Habang pino-photocopy iyong ... /jlf
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INCLUSION)
Mancol IV-1 November 29, 2017 11:31 a.m. 1
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. … pino-photocopy iyong
documents na summary about that, Usec, can you give us differences
ng personal income tax ng House and Senate.
MR. CHUA. Actually, I prepared a summary of the matrix. You
want to make copies also para i-share?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, pino-photocopy na. Nagawa
na iyon?
MR. CHUA. Because we can break again for a few minutes para
I can—as you discuss the topic, I’ll do it one by one.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Two minutes.
MR. CHUA. Okay.
[THE MEETING WAS SUSPENDED AT 11:32 A.M.]
[THE MEETING WAS RESUMED AT 11:32 A.M.]
MR. CHUA. May I proceed na?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, yes.
MR. CHUA. I-summarize ko lang. Sa personal income tax for
compensation earners, the House, iyong main difference lang, iyong
House, same iyong rates, pero iyong top rate begins at P5 million. The
Senate begins at P8 million. And then, in the House, they have two
tranches, iyong 2018 and 2021. Sa Senate, one tranche lang. Ibig
sabihin, iyong succeeding rate reduction in the House will not happen if
22
INCLUSION)
the Senate will be approved. The threshold is similar, P250,000 and
below, exempt; additional exemption for dependents, both sides
included already in the P250,000; health insurance in the House
included; in the Senate, it’s additional increase to P6,000 if the family
gross income, I believe, is about P500,000; 13th month, House is
increased to P100,000; Senate retained at P82,000. Effectivity begins
at the same time, January 1, 2018. Indexation allowed in the House
every three years; in the Senate, no indexation. In general, walang
indexation sa Senate, across the board. And then, special laws, in the
House, we have a provision to generically repeal all exemptions on
income tax in contrary to the Tax Code, pero generic repeal. In the
Senate, no repeal ang ano dito. No repeal. That’s wrong. The 15
lines refer to the 15 laws that would have been repealed generically by
the House pero sa Senate wala. So, dapat walang repeal iyan. May
VAT repeal pero wala ang Senate.
Sa self-employed, the main differences are those above the VAT
threshold in the House must pay the 30 percent corporate income tax
while in the Senate, the PIT rate applies, the personal income tax.
Those below the VAT threshold of P3 million, in the House, they
are mandated to pay 8 percent; while in the House, they have the
option between the 8 percent and the graduated rate.
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INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Usec, sorry to interrupt you.
Punta muna tayo doon sa personal income tax baka may comment
sila. So, ito iyong kinagandahan ng pre-bicam para iyong documents
sa Friday, tama na.
So, doon sa special laws, iyong generic repeal all, ililipat iyong
itemized sa repeal na 15 lines including authority of the BIR to audit?
MR. CHUA. Oo, dapat ano ito, lipat sa House ito.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Pero sa Senate wala?
MR. CHUA. Sa Senate wala, no repeal.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So, any comment on the personal
income tax doon sa issues? So, ang issues lang to be resolved are
tranche kasi sa Senate one na lang.
MR. CHUA. Well, tatlo iyong issue. The first is one or two
tranche; the second is a cutoff for the 35 percent, either five or eight
million.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Paki-note na lang natin para sa
issues to be resolved para sa mga conferees. Cutoff na five to—
MR. CHUA. Five to eight million. The third is iyong health
insurance, whether included or additional exemption; and then the
fourth is the 13th month, whether P82,000 or P100,000.
24
INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Eighty-two thousand or P100,000.
Any comment on personal income tax?
MR. MARASIGAN. May nagno-note naman sa atin sa
secretariat, ano.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Oo, may nagno-note sa amin, may
nagno-note din sa inyo. I assigned my people to take note.
Okay. Anything else? Any comment from our representatives,
from conferees from the House? If not, let’s proceed to another topic.
MR. CHUA. So, iyong second is personal income for the self-
employed and professional. This one is a bit complicated. In the
House, if you are above the VAT threshold, you pay the 30 percent.
Mandatory iyan. So, wala na iyong schedular rate. If you are below
the VAT threshold, you must pay the 8 percent flat tax.
In the Senate, if you are above the VAT threshold, you pay
whatever is the corresponding rate in the compensation, so iyong
graduated. If you are below the VAT threshold, you have the option to
pay the 8 percent or the graduated rate.
On the threshold, the House, P250,000; in Senate, we need to
clarify whether it’s 250 or 500 kasi in the mixed income case, parang
doble iyong accounting.
25
INCLUSION)
VAT registration, below threshold, the House version, not allowed
kasi you are mandated; in the Senate, you are allowed if you choose to
be under the VAT and not pay the 8 percent.
Iyong optional standard deduction, similar naman.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Usec, mamaya na ang OSD.
Thank you.
So, sa self-employed, same lang naman iyong threshold natin na
3M. Ang pagkakaiba lang natin is about iyong una muna, may kina-
clarify ang DOF. Can you answer it, Atty. June? Iyong threshold for
income tax exemption, sa House bill is P250,000. Tinatanong nila
iyong sa atin is 250 ba o 500? Sige, paki-clarify lang para hindi sila—
MS. NILLAMA. Iyong sa personal income tax, it’s still 250.
Iyong 500 pertains to the percentage tax exemption.
Doon sa computation, we noticed na nag-iba iyong revenue
losses doon sa computation for the SEPs kasi we understand that if you
are mixed, what the DOF did was they recomputed using parang they
claimed twice the 250. So, the understanding really was once ka lang
magki-claim. So, if you are a mixed income earner, you just claim the
250 on your compensation income. And then if you are going to opt for
the 8 percent, it’s 8 percent of gross. There’s no more deduction for
250. So, that’s why iyong original computation, iyon iyong
26
INCLUSION)
understanding and then iyong ito, this is how the bill was drafted.
Pero the intention really is once ka lang magki-claim ng 250.
MR. CHUA. Thank you, Atty. June.
Is that how the bill is worded?
MS. NILLAMA. Hindi, napasok lang, sir, sa language.
MR. CHUA. I just want to clarify. Thank you. We want that
intended. But our estimate is solely based on what appears in the bill
for now.
MS. NILLAMA. Yes. We will suggest to delete the phrase “in
excess of the income,” iyong last phrase. So, papaboran na lang po
iyon.
MR. CHUA. Okay. Thank you very much.
So, we have parang edits on typos, intent and substantive.
Okay. So, this is intent. Parang this is what we want pero hindi na-
reflect. . . (nam)
27
INCLUSION)
GESapinoso V-1 November 29, 2017 11:41 a.m. 1
MR. CHUA. … pero hindi na-reflect sa bill, so easy lang iyan.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. So paki-take note na lang if ever
the Senate version will be accepted, iyong clear intent of the law as
raised today should be observed.
Yes, Donald.
MR. MARASIGAN. Atty. Dascil, Atty. June, pwede bang ma-
identify sa particular section, page sa matrix on the Senate version
regarding sa 250.
MS. NILLAMA. Sir, it’s on page eight, third row.
Sir, mayroon pala kaming comment doon sa premium, iyong sa
6,000.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I-settle muna natin ito. I-settle
muna one by one.
MS. NILLAMA. Okay.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Page eight.
MR. MARASIGAN. Anong line? Wala pang line ito.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Walang line ito, matrix ito.
MS. NILLAMA. Row three po.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Paragraph (c)(2).
MS. NILLAMA. Row 3, paragraph (c)(2).
28
INCLUSION)
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. (c)(2), last line, “The rates
prescribed under subsection (2)(a) of this section on taxable income of
8 percent tax based on gross sale of receipts and other non-operating
income for income from business or practice of profession,” dapat
period na doon, hindi ba?
As of now, iyon nakasulat. So please take note.
MR. MARASIGAN. Hindi, kasi this will be discussed during the
bicam.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, sir.
MR. MARASIGAN. We cannot delete anything.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes. Pina-flag lang natin.
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Actually, hindi na-edit noong sa
kabila, sa Bills and Index.
Any comments on self-employed?
MR. MARASIGAN. To clear lang, ang intention niyo is to delete
the “in excess of the income subject to zero percent tax, at the option
of the taxpayer?” Ganoon ba iyon?
MS. NILLAMA. Yes, sir.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Dr. Chua, agree kayo kung ide-
delete. Of course, by the conferees? It will be more beneficial.
29
INCLUSION)
MR. CHUA. Yes.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Feel free to comment, this is a
democratic country. Per topic, on issues.
Any other issues?
Now, we can go back doon sa insurance as an issue.
Yes, Atty. June.
MS. NILLAMA. Sir, we also agreed na if it’s 250, wala na iyong
6,000. Kaya lang noong doon sa floor yata medyo hindi lang na-strike
siya pero wala na rin dapat 6,000 if we go the 250.
MR. CHUA. Okay. So this is another correction.
MS. NILLAMA. Yes, sir.
MR. CHUA. Intent, na intent. Okay, sige very good.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. What do you mean very good?
Favorable sa government, Usec?
MR. CHUA. Hindi, walang issue from both side.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, thank you.
MR. CHUA. The intent is the same.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Fellow public servants, kung wala
na tayong issue about self-employed, can we go now to optional
standard deduction?
Usec.
30
INCLUSION)
MR. CHUA. Yes.
On the OSD, no difference. So 40 percent of GI but, of course,
may revenue loss.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. I guess from our partners sa
House, isa na ito na walang change. Pwede na nating i-note na
similar, OSD, para hindi na siya maging masyadong discussion. If it is
agreeable.
Boss Donald? OSD.
Kung wala, let’s go to 15 percent preferential rate—
MR. MARASIGAN. Atty. Dascil, iyong version ng Senate, you
will be enjoying the 40 percent base on gross income. You will be
amending the portion doon sa individual section kasi ngayon is 40
percent of gross sales. On our part, kasi we will be employing a
corporate scheme, kaya iyong scheme na ie-enjoy ng self-employed is
the one under the corporate tax na 40 percent of gross income.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, same, same iyan. Doon sa
matrix, almost the same iyan.
Thank you for your note.
Let’s proceed on 15 percent preferential rate for operating
headquarters.
31
INCLUSION)
By the way, ang working paper natin is summary of comparison,
page one pa lang tayo of five pages.
MR. CHUA. May I continue?
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes, Usec.
MR. CHUA. Iyong 15 percent preferential rate, House is
removed, Senate has the retain for current employers and remove for
prospective employers. So that’s another issue.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Thank you.
By the way, administrative matter, Donald, if you’re agreeable,
nakita niyo iyong matrix natin? Kung agree kayo, this will be a
separate paper, iyong five pages, lagyan natin ng remarks, ilagay natin
itong remarks na pinag-uusapan natin. What I mean, there will be a
third line, “remarks.” Halimbawa, on the 15 preferential, iyong
summary lang today. No other things, walang remarks para similar
lang, for our conferees. Kasi two lines lang ito, House Bill 5636, 1592,
we put a third column, remarks, based on what we are discussing, the
five pages.
Okay lang?
MR. MARASIGAN. I think maganda na lang separate na lang,
huwag na lang isama dito sa matrix. Kasi this will be the official
32
INCLUSION)
kuwan, iyong pinag-uusapan natin is unofficial pa between the
conferees.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Yes.
MR. MARASIGAN. Separate na lang iyong magiging comments,
iyong remarks.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Sige, okay lang daw. I was just
following instruction.
Anyway, Usec, you have now the floor on the 15 preferential
rate.
MR. CHUA. Okay. Yes, that one I explained already. Iyong sa
winnings, same for both except iyong sa Senate, above 10,000 for
easier administration. Kasi pag ₱10 iyong price, hirap na ring i-collect
iyan. So that was agreed.
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Okay. Sweepstakes and lottery
winnings, in effect, mas gusto ng DOF iyong may 10,000.
MR. CHUA. You know, for administration purposes, the above
10,000 is okay kasi we cannot account for all winnings talaga.
Let’s go to the fringe benefits tax.
MR. CHUA. Fringe benefit, I’ll take them together. In the
House version, we were operating on the assumption that the fringe
33
INCLUSION)
benefit will be included in the gross income. However, upon further
discussion in the Senate, that’s very difficult to do. So in the Senate
version, we will just retain the existing system of separate taxation but
apply the highest rate, 35, because these are typically given to the
executives. So I think better na iyong retain the current and just
increase the rates for these executives.
Donald, can you?
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes, isang issue ito. It will be discussed by
the conferees.
Donald, ituloy mo na lang. Tawag lang ako.
You proceed.
MR. CHUA. On estate, both Houses have 6 percent on net,
however, in the House version, they retained the various exemptions
for medical, funeral, family home standard and increase it a bit. In the
Senate, to simplify administration, instead of itemized iyong deduction,
there is all in na five million standard deduction. And exemption for
the family home, first 10 million only. So those are the main
difference.
34
INCLUSION)
So the two issues are whether to itemize the deduction or lump
sum na lang and then what to do with the family home.
On donor’s tax, it’s 6 percent, the House is above 100,000, the
Senate is above 250,000.
Next.
On the VAT, in general, the House has a generic repeal of all
special laws but not itemized. In the Senate, they itemized 56 out of
the 61 that we propose.
MR. MARASIGAN. Anong difference ng special laws dito—?
MR. CHUA. Iyong kanina, income lang iyon, ngayon VAT
naman, VAT special laws.
MR. CHUA. Senior citizen, PWD, we will not touch it, still
exempt for both Houses.
Cooperatives, non-electric cooperatives, both Houses, still
exempt. For electric cooperatives, both Houses, VATable na.
MR. MARASIGAN. Existing iyan.
MR. CHUA. Currently kasi, registered with NEA … /jun
35
INCLUSION)
MHulep VI-1 November 29, 2017 11:51 a.m. 1
MR. CHUA. … registered with NEA, VATable; registered with
CDA, exempt. So we will clarify that all of them whether registered
with NEA or CDA will be VATable, to be fair.
In terms of housing, sa House, all low cost is VATable. And then
socialized remains exempt until such a time there’s a housing voucher
to provide poor with their subsidy and then it will be VATable.
In the Senate, all socialized are exempt wherever they are. And
then for low cost within Metro Manila, they are all VATable. Outside
Metro Manila, those below two million are exempt; those between two
million and the current low cost threshold of around three million are
VATable. So iyon po iyong difference. So may two million threshold
sila, only outside Metro Manila. So that’s another major issue.
Leasing in the house, VATable; Senate exempt up to 15,000. So
another issue.
Power transmission. NGCP, both VATable on top of the current
franchise.
Iyong special laws with VAT exemption, in the House, it’s generic
repeal. In the Senate, itemized repeal of 56 lines. Those are the key
differences, VAT exemption. Tama ba?
Okay. Next.
36
INCLUSION)
Zero rating. On the renewable energy, status quo, both Houses
did not touch this.
The next one, limit VAT zero rating to direct exporters once
refund is available. In general, both Houses, yes, pero iyong provisions
may minor differences. Since we’re discussing the key provisions, we
can discuss the details later.
Then in the Senate, for the Special Economic Zone and TIEZA, it
was explicitly mentioned as also subject to zero rating the sales to
them. Whereas the House, walang explicit mention.
And then iyong others dito should be the details of the limiting of
zero rating. So iyong sa Senate, medyo may additional lang which I’ll
not discuss for the time being.
And then the VAT threshold is the same, three million for both.
Percentage tax. In the House we didn’t touch it. In the Senate,
the first 500,000 gross sales or receipt will be exempt. Tama ba?
So that is on the sales tax.
Yes?
MR. MARASIGAN. Excuse me, Usec.
Can we go back doon sa zero rating especially Senate version?
37
INCLUSION)
In case there is a call center and a supplier just like Meralco
supplies electricity to the call center, does it fall under the present zero
rating or subject to the VAT, 12 percent?
MR. CHUA. You’re asking the Senate version?
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes.
MR. CHUA. May we request the Senate to clarify?
MS. NILLAMA. [Off-mike]
MR. MARASIGAN. Hindi. Ang case kasi, scenario is a call
center, ano. Mayroon silang mga suppliers just like—locators. May mga
incentives ito na dapat at present, zero-rated iyong mga suppliers
nila just like iyong provider ng electricity or suppliers ng papers.
What we did in the House is we repealed that particular provision
under a refund system as proposed by the DOF. And I think in the
Senate version if I am not mistaken, is it—they would like to retain the
present scheme of a zero VAT rate given to these indirect exporters?
MS. NILLAMA. Sir, if you’re referring to the sale, to the
locators, that’s actually direct export. So what we’re referring to is the
indirect exports, the sale by the suppliers to the suppliers of the
ecozone locators. So parang three layers siya. From the suppliers to
direct locators, that’s direct export so we’re retaining the zero rating.
38
INCLUSION)
But iyong sa suppliers of the locators, sila iyong indirect exports. So,
sila under the bill, the zero rating will be repealed upon the
establishment of the enhanced VAT refund system.
MR. CHUA. I think iyong question mo depends where the call
center is. Kung nasa PEZA zone siya, we will respect that outside
Customs territory. Pero pag iyong BPO wala sa PEZA zone, the sale to
them is VATable and they are the ones zero-rated. Pero pag iyong
BPO nasa PEZA zone, they are already exempt outside Customs
territory and the sale to them is considered a direct export. Tama?
Can I move on?
Sa fuel, in general, the House will arrive at additional ₱6 in three
years generally following the three, two, one schedule with no
exemption.
In the Senate, in general, most of them will follow the ₱6
increase in three years pero differentiated. Lubricating oil and—so
medyo iba-iba lang talaga siya. You can just follow. I don’t have to
itemize. The key ones, kerosene, exempt; aviation up to ₱4 lang and
fixed na thereafter; LPG is ₱1 every year so one, two, three. Then the
rest, iyong mga essentials, 1.75, 3.75 and then six. And then the non-
essentials, six, eight, ten. So iyon iyong difference.
39
INCLUSION)
Both Houses have no indexation for mitigating measure that
House version has the $80 per barrel; in the Senate, they added
another mitigating measure which is the CPI maximum.
Okay. Next.
Automobile. In the House version, there are two tranches; in the
Senate, one tranche. In the House version, there are five rates; in the
Senate version, there are two rates. So that’s a major change.
Next.
Yes?
MR. MARASIGAN. May query lang ako sa Senate version, ano.
Iyong two rates ng Senate version, if you play the 10 or the 20,
is it directly on the—is it net manufacturing selling price or import
selling price?
MR. CHUA. Both.
MR. MARASIGAN. So it’s a direct imposition not like sa House,
may marginal rates kami.
Supposing if a car costs one million and one peso, you have to
pay times 20 percent. So you have to pay 200,000 something. That’s
correct? As against one million, you will be paying only at 10 percent,
40
INCLUSION)
100. So a difference of ₱1 will make you jump up to a higher rate.
That’s correct, ano? That’s the correct analysis. Okay.
Thank you.
MR. CHUA. It’s like the original DOF proposal, iyong 20, 40, 60.
Next page.
Exemptions. Additional exemptions sa House purely in hybrid
electric and pickups; iyong sa Senate, purely and hybrid electric
without the pickups.
Then sa motor vehicle user charge, as I mentioned, this is a
separate bill. But the idea here is to index the rates which have not
been adjusted since 2004.
Okay. Next.
Sa sugar, in the House—
MR. AMBROSIO. Excuse me, Usec.
MR. CHUA. Yes.
MR. AMBROSIO. Sorry. Quick question lang po.
For the House po, open po ba to include every UC in the TRAIN?
Not as a separate measure. Just ano lang, hypothetic—explanatory ano
lang, options.
41
INCLUSION)
MR. MARASIGAN. Ako, personal opinion ko, dapat it should be
in a separate bill, not here. Kasi first of all, you should ask the
stakeholders. We prevent them from hearing their sides.
MR. CHUA. I have update.
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes.
MR. CHUA. In the meeting with Cong Daks and the Speaker, I
told them about the Senate’s thinking to include it and they have no
objection to that.
MR. MARASIGAN. Yes. But the thing is they didn’t include it. So
who will initiate … /mhu
42
INCLUSION)
Jmbaisa VII-1 November 29, 2017 12:01 p.m. 1
MR. MARASIGAN. … So who will initiate it?
VOICE. The Bicam. [Laughing]
MR. CHUA. No. The idea kasi is i-abolish na rin iyong fund and
board. So you will have a charge that is hanging. So the idea here is
to just call it a tax and insert it sa NIRC. Kasi the reason for the
charge is because there is a separate fund and board that acts like a
congress. Since the idea here is abolish both the fund and board, then
the charge will be hanging. So that’s one option.
MR. MARASIGAN. Ano ang possible rate natin sa MVUC?
MR. CHUA. Well, we have proposed and submitted to
Congressman—iyong Villafuerte bill is the DOF version, ano lang siya,
cumulative indexation from 2004. So may table iyan.
MR. MARASIGAN. I think Senate is proposing based on
weight?
MR. CHUA. Senator Recto’s staff iyan, eh.
I will just move on. Later na lang iyan.
Next.
SSB, House version—mali rin ito. Iyong P10 should be domestic
sugar and then, iyong P20 is imported sugar or inputs, including
possibly high-fructose corn syrup. So correction iyan.
43
INCLUSION)
In the Senate, it is based not on the source but on the raw
material used. So iyong Senate, purely non-caloric or caloric, P4.50
per liter. And then, pag high-fructose corn syrup or combination, P9.
And then, iyong exemption list is generally the same.
And then, House has indexation; Senate, no indexation.
Okay. May I continue? Kasi nawawala iyong mga—
Anyway, sabi niya, “Yes.”
And then, on tax admin.- Fuel markings: mandatory in the
House; optional in the Senate.
Metering is mandatory for both.
Electronic sales reporting and interconnectivity are mentioned in
the House. In the Senate, the reporting and invoicing is limited to the
large, medium and exporters. It is deleted in the Senate for the
sharing of data across government agencies.
Automatic exchange of information and bank secrecy: yes in the
House; deleted in the Senate, to be included in the General Amnesty
Bill.
The length of the forms: No change in the House. In the
Senate, maximum of two pages.
Withholding of creditable tax: In the House, retain the one to 32
percent; in the Senate, shorten to one to 10 percent.
44
INCLUSION)
Bookkeeping and installment payment: No change in the House;
in the Senate, simplified is explicitly mentioned.
Tax due, in excess of 2,000 can be on installment.
On the VAT capital expense: House retain the current; and then
in the Senate, you can fully expend starting 2020.
Shift from monthly to quarterly VAT payment: In the Senate,
yes, starting 2020. Shift from final to creditable withholding on VAT,
in the Senate, yes, starting 2020.
So, because of the cash flow issue, na-push back siya, otherwise,
massive loss siya.
And then, on the Senate—
MS. NILLAMA. Sir, comment lang po.
MR. CHUA. Yes.
MS. NILLAMA. Doon, sir, sa shift from final to creditable
withholding tax, sir, hindi ba iyong ano lang doon is only for those sa
government? But iyong sa exporters, iyong final VAT mo pa rin, iyong
provision, nag-stay pa rin siya.
MR. CHUA. So only for exporters.
MS. NILLAMA. Only for government.
MR. CHUA. Only for government, yes.
MS. NILLAMA. Yes.
45
INCLUSION)
MR. CHUA. Sige, we will make the correction.
And then, on the automatic approval of VAT refund, explicit
mention in the Senate that if there is no decision, it is deemed
approved on the 90th day.
Okay? That is the tax admin.
There are many more smaller ones na hindi na namin in-include.
Pero may major ones ba na na-refer ka?
VOICE. Sa ngayon, wala.
MR. CHUA. Sa ngayon, wala. Okay.
So I guess, this is also a set of major differences.
In the last page, in the Senate, the following taxes were added:
Coal – Increase from 10 to 100. Starting next year, 200; in two
years, 300, in 2020. And repeal the Coal Development Act.
Mining - Double all the rates--cosmetic, 10 percent, excise;
FCDU and capital gains, 15 percent.
Iyong dividends, tanggalin na natin, wala namang change.
Doc. stamp, double everything except for property, no change;
and loans, 50 percent increase only.
So this is a set of major differences.
Then, sa cash transfer, explicitly mentioned in the House, four
years; in the Senate, three years at 300.
46
INCLUSION)
Although there is a problem, mathematically, hindi siya
satisfiable, even if we use the one thirty maximum.
And then sa House bill, sa earmarking, na-simplify na ng Senate,
in general, into 60 percent infra; 13 percent military; and social
services, 27 percent. So may mga details we have to work out.
One last thing lang. Iyong sa effectivity—
VOICE. What is TCT?
MR. CHUA. The targeted cash transfer.
Iyong effectivity kasi is 15 days after for both.
Do you want to make it explicit January 1 like the Sin Tax para
sure?
MR. LINA. [Off-mike]
MR. CHUA. Iyong effectivity. Kasi we have 15 days/15 days.
Pero if you want it January 1, you have to explicitly mention “January
1.”
Yes? Okay. At least may nag-agree.
Okay. Thank you. That’s it.
MR. MARASIGAN. Bong, darating ba si Atty. Dascil? He will be
back, ano?
MR. VILLANUEVA. [Off-mike] … Tinawag daw.
Ano ba ang next? Natapos na natin ang--
47
INCLUSION)
MR. MARASIGAN. Natapos na iyong presentation ng finance
revenue and the major differences between the House and the Senate.
MR. VILLANUEVA. Mag-break muna tayo.
MR. MARASIGAN. Break muna tayo. O sige.
MR. VILLANUEVA. Lunch break. Anyway, may lunch naman
yata tayo, pwede tayong mag-break hanggang dumating si Atty.
Dascil.
MR. MARASIGAN. Okay. Thank you.
[Lunch break was at 12:10 p.m.]
48
INCLUSION)
CMNERY VII-1 November 29, 2017 12:55 p.m. 1
[THE MEETING WAS RESUMED AT 12:55 P.M.]
THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Good afternoon.
I guess tapos nang mag-lunch iyong iba.
Can we resume now?
Actually, thank you for presiding in my behalf. Tapos na tayo
doon sa mga major differences as presented to us by the DOF, iyong
summary of comparison of tax reform.
I guess with that, for today, we accomplished certain things and
certain administrative matters on the schedule, certain estimates and
what to be done by respective groups as well as the distribution of
work in order that we can pass this and help our principals during the
proper bicameral meetings. And we take note that the working draft
for matrix, iyong comparative matrix ng House bill saka 1592, we’ll ask
that the same should be retrieved kasi mayroong error na nakuha on
the part of the House na we say sorry kung mali. So huwag muna
nating ibigay sa mga principals natin. And on the part ng sa Senate,
may certain typographical and certain omissions din, so it will not be
the matrix to be used sa Friday.
With that, kung wala na tayong other issue, on behalf of the
technical staff ng Senate saka conferees para makapagtrabaho na tayo
doon sa mga—kasi walang pasok bukas—doon sa mga other materials,
49
INCLUSION)
CMNERY VII-1 November 29, 2017 12:55 p.m. 2
we request that this preliminary bicam meeting be adjourned on the
part of the Senate.
MR. MARASIGAN. On the part of the House, we thank the
Senate for inviting us to have a delicious lunch, first of all, and thank
you for the working time with the Senate. The materials that will be
discussed on Friday will be the corrected matrix.
Thank you.
[THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 12:58 P.M.] /cmn
50

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Republic of the Philippines

Congress of the Philippines

PRE-BICAMERAL CONFERENCE COMMITTEE

DATE : Wednesday, November 29, 2017

TIME : 10:00 am.

VENUE : Sen. Claro M. Recto and Sen. Jose P. Laurel Rooms

AGENDA : SENATE BILL NO. 1592 - AN ACT AMENDING

HOUSE BILL NO. 5636 - AN ACT AMENDING

ATTY. RODELIO T. DASCIL - Presiding Officer; Director General, Senate

MS. VIVIAN A. CABILING - Director III, Indirect Taxes Branch, STSRO

MR. NORBERTO M. VILLANUEVA - Director II, Tax Policy Branch, STSRO

MS. ELVIRA CRUDO - Director II, Direct Taxes Branch, STSRO

ATTY. HOMER ALINSUG - O/S Angara

ATTY. JUNE NILLAMA - O/S Angara

MR. ERDIE AMBROSIO - O/S Angara

ATTY. GRACE S. ARBOLADUVA - O/SP Pimentel

MR. JOSEPH IRVIN OBENZA - O/S Recto

MS. MICHEL C. PALMA - O/S Recto

MR. ALEMAR MOSQUITO - O/S Recto

MS. JANE CRISTINO - O/S Zubiri

MR. DAVE TORRES - O/S Zubiri

ATTY. CZARINA SERRANO - O/S Drilon

MR. DONALD Z. MARASIGAN - Deputy Executive Director, Committee on

MR. MAURICIO PULHIN - Service Director

MS. CARMEN JIMENEZ - SLSO II, Committee on Ways and Means

MS. JONA NAVARETTE - SLSO I, Committee on Ways and Means

MR. MARTI PHILIP LINA - SLSO I, Committee on Ways and Means

MR. JUSTIN MUYOT - Committe on Ways and Means

HON. KARL KENDRICK CHUA - Undersecretary, Department of Finance

MS. TRINIDAD A. RODRIGUEZ - Executive Director, National Tax Research

Ms. Anna Leah C. Catimbang - Committee Stenographer

(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

AT 11:01 A.M., ATTY. RODELIO T. DASCIL,

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Good morning. In behalf of the

pre-bicam meeting for the technical staff in order.

MR. MARASIGAN. Recorded ba ito? Recorded?

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. For reference lang.

MR. MARASIGAN. On the part ng Committee on Ways and

office of Chairman Dakila Cua, Mr. Philip Marti Lina—Anak ka ba ni

Commissioner Lina?—si Jona at saka si Carmen on the part of the

House, at saka si Justine kay Chairman Cua.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Of course, on the part of the

Starting from my left, from the office of senator--?

MS. SERRANO. I’m Czarina Serrano from the Office of Senator

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. Now, from my right.

MS. NILLAMA. Atty. June Nillama from the Office of Senator

MR. AMBROCIO. Rudy Ambrocio, Office of Senator Angara.

MR. MOSQUITO. Atty. Alemar Mosquito from the Office of

MR. TORRES. Dave Torres from the Office of Senator Zubiri.

MS. CRISTINO. Jane Cristino from the Office of Senator Zubiri.

MS. ARBOLADURA. Good morning. Atty. Grace Arboladura

from Office of the Senate President.

MS. PALMA. Good morning. Mitch Palma, O/S Recto.

MR. OBENZA. Good morning. Joseph Obenza from the Office of

MS. RODRIGUEZ. Good morning. Trinidad Rodriguez from the

National Tax Research Center.

THE PRESIDING OFFICER. We recognize our resource person.

Yesterday, it was mentioned the “honorary senator,” Doctor,

Undersecretary Karl Chua, Department of Finance. Honorary senator

ka na yesterday. And, of course, the executive director of National Tax

Research Center, Trinidad Rodriguez.

For today, in consultation with the House and the Department of

Finance, we wish to accomplish five things for our conferees. One,