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Why didn't Cioran commit suicide?

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dimka
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Posted Sep 1, 2006 - 09:04 PM:

Subject: Why didn't Cioran commit suicide?
#1
Emil Cioran, as you may well know, is probably the most pessimistic philosopher/poet the history
of mankind had ever seen (rivaling Schopenhauer, which is no small feat mind you...)

All of his works are punctuated with extreme thoughts of anxiety, pain, misery and all of them
concentrate on the inevitablity of death, how life is inferior to it and how insignificant the humansa
are in relation to the might of the cosmos.

A small quote to illustrate my meaning to those who haven't heard about him yet, or haven't heard
enough for that matter...

"Everything is possible and yet nothing is. All is permitted and yet again, nothing. No matter which
way we go, it is no better than any other. It is all the same whether you achieve something or not,
have faith or not, ... whether you cry or remain silent. There is an explanation for everything, and
yet there is none. Everything is both real and unreal, normal and absurd, splendid and insipid.
There is nothing worth more than something else, nor any idea better than another. Why grow
sad from one?s sadness and delight in one?s joy? ... Love your unhappiness and hate your
happiness. Mix everything up. ... All gain is a loss, and all loss is a gain. Why always expect a
definite stance, clear ideas, meaningful words?"

AND

"How important can it be that I suffer and think? ? Although I feel that my tragedy is the greatest
in history ? greater than the fall of empires ? I am nevertheless aware of my total insignificance. I
am absolutely persuaded that I am nothing in this universe; [emphasis added] ? This world is not
worth a sacrifice in the name of an idea or belief. ? Let history crumble into dust. Why should I
bother? Let death appear in a ridiculous light; suffering, limited and unrevealing; enthusiasm,
impure; life, rational; life?s dialectics, logical rather than demonic; despair, minor and partial;
eternity, just a word; the experience of nothingness, an illusion; fatality, a joke!"

I've read a similar discussion in another forum, so I was wondering, why do you guys think he
didn't just off himself and lived to his 70s?

_____________________
"Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language" -
Ludwig Wittgenstein
"If you got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the planets and all the aliens and
everybody, then the universe would be largely the same. We’re completely irrelevant.” Lawrence
M.Krauss
"Reality has a way of testing our confidence when we discuss real things. When we discuss
fantasies and illusions, reality keeps quiet" - rabeldin

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 02:15 AM:

#2
S?Kierkegaard is a similar character. An absurdist who was adamant that life is futile and there is
no purpose to our existence. I would argue that the fact that he was writing this down in order for
others to see gives purpose to his own existence.

I like to read negative and bleak philosophy at times to spur me on. Will i be part of the futile
existence of man...or will i rise above it and give purpose to my life.

Of course S?Kierkegaard is looking at a bigger picture. He is looking at humanity as a pointless

blip in time, in terms of its significance in the universe.

Cioran, i have not read into, but i can relate to the quotes you have given. He seems like an
interesting character and i shall read more about him. The idea of suffering, pain, hell-on-earth
intrigues me.
_____________________
"....in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling
solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing" Nietzsche

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 03:47 AM:

#3
Kierkegaard did not think life is futile nor did he think there is no purpose to existence. He talked
about levelling as symptom of the 19th century, as well as the aesthetic stage, the consequence
of which leads to boredom, despair, and nihilism.

His aesthetic works yes, he can sound negative; fear, trembling, anxiety, dread, the sickness unto
death, but he wrote that only to show that one does not need to be in the aesthic stage. That one
can rise above the aesthetic stage and appeal to the ethical stage, and hopefully the religious
stage. His signed works like Works of Love, Purity of Heart, and the upbuilding discourses all
suggest a life worth living, full of love, freedom, goodness, and strength of will.

As for Cioran, wow, I can't remember Kierkegaard being so pessimistic; even Sickness Unto
Death has an upbeat part II.

_____________________
I perhaps did right in submitting my aphorism to a systematic appraiser. Perhaps something may
come of it, a footnote in [a philosophical system] -- great idea! Then I would not have lived in vain!
- S?Kierkegaard

I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so
clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity: in
our common stupidity.
- S?Kierkegaard

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 04:26 AM:

#4
"Kierkegaard, generally regarded as the founder of modern existentialism, reacted against the
systematic absolute idealism of the 19th-century German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich
Hegel, who claimed to have worked out a total rational understanding of humanity and history.
Kierkegaard, on the contrary, stressed the ambiguity and absurdity of the human situation. The
individual's response to this situation must be to live a totally committed life, and this commitment
can only be understood by the individual who has made it. The individual therefore must always
be prepared to defy the norms of society for the sake of the higher authority of a personally valid
way of life. Kierkegaard ultimately advocated a ?leap of faith? into a Christian way of life, which,
although incomprehensible and full of risk, was the only commitment he believed could save the
individual from despair." http://encarta.msn.com/text_761555530___0/Existen...

So we must choose religion or risk depsair, this says to me...life is futile, because any religion in
my opinion is too flaw-filled to live by.

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solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing" Nietzsche

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 05:20 AM:

#5
The encyclopedia article is too general and doesn't take into account his later views.

He was an absurdist in so far as believing Christian doctrines was absurd. For example, how can
God be both god and man (Jesus); an idea which seems absurd. Absurdity's thrown around too
much in Kierkegaard's case.

Religion, in Kierkegaard's sense, is not just doctrine, formalities or rituals, or bending your will to
"the crowd", but a consistent and authentic commitment to a life-view. Even atheism is a kind of
life-view. Kierkegaard was writing to a Christian audience that does not live the Christian life. He
did not intend to convert anyone to religion, but what he wanted is for Christians, people who
have already adopted a certain life-view but do not fully understand, to become better Christians.
And of course, given the history of existentialism who have used his aesthetic writings to support
their claims, Kierkegaard provided the tools for (atheists to be better atheists (Sartre), jews to be
better jews (Buber), etc.)

_____________________
I perhaps did right in submitting my aphorism to a systematic appraiser. Perhaps something may
come of it, a footnote in [a philosophical system] -- great idea! Then I would not have lived in vain!
- S?Kierkegaard

I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so
clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity: in
our common stupidity.
- S?Kierkegaard

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 05:27 AM:

#6
Poor Yorick wrote:
The encyclopedia article is too general and doesn't take into account his later views.

He was an absurdist in so far as believing Christian doctrines was absurd. For example, how can
God be both god and man (Jesus); an idea which seems absurd. Absurdity's thrown around too
much in Kierkegaard's case.

Religion, in Kierkegaard's sense, is not just doctrine, formalities or rituals, or bending your will to
"the crowd", but a consistent and authentic commitment to a life-view. Even atheism is a kind of
life-view. Kierkegaard was writing to a Christian audience that does not live the Christian life. He
did not intend to convert anyone to religion, but what he wanted is for Christians, people who
have already adopted a certain life-view but do not fully understand, to become better Christians.

And of course, given the history of existentialism who have used his aesthetic writings to support
their claims, Kierkegaard provided the tools for (atheists to be better atheists (Sartre), jews to be
better jews (Buber), etc.)

Still another interpretation is possible. Hypocrisy can salvage the wreckage that absurd doctrines
create. Rather than campaign against the absurdity, it is better to tell people what they want to
hear and do what you feel is right.

We are not obliged to tell anyone the truth about our feelings. Sometimes it is better to avoid the
subject than to inflict others with our doubts. Let them believe that we believe.
_____________________
It ain't that simple!
Truth is the myth we agree to tell to children!
All generalizations are false, including this one.
Life is what you live.

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 05:27 AM:

#7
yorick...

i understand,

i do not dispute that. i was merely connecting Cioran with Kierkegaard after reading a piece of
Kierkegaard's work that resulted in me feeling a sense of bleakness, it was moving and opened
up my eyes. That is why i related it to the original post. I see you have studied Kierkegaard in-
depth and i praise and respect you for that. I will look into Kierkegaard's work far more, i
understand he is seen as the father of modern existenialism, and his work should be looked at
carefully.

_____________________
"....in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling
solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing" Nietzsche

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 05:37 AM:

#8
rabeldin wrote:

Still another interpretation is possible. Hypocrisy can salvage the wreckage that absurd doctrines
create. Rather than campaign against the absurdity, it is better to tell people what they want to
hear and do what you feel is right.

We are not obliged to tell anyone the truth about our feelings. Sometimes it is better to avoid the
subject than to inflict others with our doubts. Let them believe that we believe.

Yes, that is also been a view point that has been forwarded. I think Camus embraced the
absudity, not sure about that.

Thanks Mac. I think Kierkegaard's been maligned for the past 100 years, but I think with the
recent scholarship, it'll do much to clarify his thought.

_____________________
I perhaps did right in submitting my aphorism to a systematic appraiser. Perhaps something may
come of it, a footnote in [a philosophical system] -- great idea! Then I would not have lived in vain!
- S?Kierkegaard

I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so
clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity: in
our common stupidity.
- S?Kierkegaard

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 09:53 AM:

#9
http://www.rosenoire.org/articles/sunic-cioran.ph...

Contrary to J.P. Sartre's existentialism that focuses on the rupture between being and non-being,
Cioran regrets the split between the language and reality, and therefore the difficulty to fully
convey the vision of existential nothingness. In a kind of alienation popularized by modern writers,
Cioran detects the fashionable offshoot of "Parisianism" that elegantly masks a warmed-up
version of a thwarted belief in progress. Such a critical attitude towards his contemporaries is
maybe the reason why Cioran has never had eulogies heaped upon him, and why his enemies
like to dub him "reactionary." To label Cioran a philopsher of nihilism may be more appropriate in
view of the fact that Cioran is a stubborn blasphemer who never tires from calling Christ, St. Paul,
and all Christian clergymen, as well as their secular Freudo-Marxian successors outright liars and
masters of illusion. To reduce Cioran to some preconceived intellectual and ideological category
cannot do justice to his complex temperament, nor can it objectively reflect his complicated
political philosophy. Each society, be it democratic or despotic, as a rule, tries to silence those
who incarnate the denial of its sacrosanct political theology. For Cioran all systems must be
rejected for the simple reason that they all glorify man as an ultimate creature. Only in the praise
of non-being, and in the thorough denial of life, argues Ciroan, does man's existence become
bearable. The great advantage of Cioran, as he says, is that "I live only because it is in my power
to die whenever I want; without the idea of suicide I would have killed myself long time ago." [4]
These words testify to Cioran's alienation from the philosophy of Sisyphus, as well as his
disapproval of the moral pathos of the dung-infested Job. Hardly any biblical or modern
democratic character would be willing to contemplate in a similar manner the possibility of
breaking away from the cycle of time. As Cioran says, the paramount sense of beatitude is
achievable only when man realizes that he can at any time terminate his life; only at that moment
will this mean a new "temptation to exist." In other words, it could be said that Cioran draws his
life force from the constant flow of the images of salutary death, thereby rendering irrelevant all
attempts of any ethical or political commitment. Man should, for a change, argues Cioran, attempt
to function as some form of saprophytic bacteria; or better yet as some amoebae from Paleozoic
era. Such primeval forms of existence can endure the terror of being and time more easily. In a
protoplasm, or lower species, there is more beauty then in all philosophies of life. And to reiterate
this point, Cioran adds: "Oh, how I would like to be a plant, even if I would have to attend to
someone's excrement!"

Perhaps Cioran could be depicted as a trouble maker, or as the French call it a "trouble fete",
whose suicidal aphorisms offend bourgeois society, but whose words also shock modern socialist
day-dreamers. In view of his acceptance of the idea of death, as well as his rejection of all
political doctrines, it is no wonder that Cioran no longer feels bound to egoistical love of life.
Hence, there is no reason for him to ponder over the strategy of living; one should rather start
thinking about the methodology of dying, or better yet how never to be born. "Mankind has
regressed so much," writes Cioran, and "nothing proves it better than the impossibility to
encounter a single nation or a tribe in which a birth of a child causes mourning and
lamentation."[6] Where are those sacred times, inquires Cioran, when Balkan Bogumils and
France's Cathares saw in child's birth a divine punishment? Today's generations, instead of
rejoicing when their loved ones are about to die, are stunned with horror and disbelief at the
vision of death. Instead of wailing and grieving when their offsprings are about to be born, they
organize mass festivities:

If attachment is an evil, the cause of this evil must be sought in the scandal of birth--because to
be born means to be attached. The purpose of someone's detachment should be the effacement
of all traces of this scandal--the ominous and the least tolerable of all scandals.

_____________________
"Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language" -
Ludwig Wittgenstein
"If you got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the planets and all the aliens and
everybody, then the universe would be largely the same. We’re completely irrelevant.” Lawrence
M.Krauss
"Reality has a way of testing our confidence when we discuss real things. When we discuss
fantasies and illusions, reality keeps quiet" - rabeldin

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 01:58 PM:

Subject: "The desire to die was my one and only concern; to it I have sacrificed everything, even
death."
#10
Cioran did commit suicide. It just took several decades of expatriated insomnia, self-alienation &
lyricized spleen for Cioran to do himself in. A savant of The Absurd, this thinker par excellance
killed himself by meditating on the act without doing it. Cioran evicerated himself by celebrating
the only failure that he felt really matters: the failure to kill oneself. "Premature death" is empty
cant since no death, premature or otherwise, can undo the tragedy, as Cioran saw it, of having
been born in the first place.

"It's not worth the bother of killing yourself, since you always kill yourself too late."

Read his The Trouble with Being Born for Cioran's most sustained meditations on the futility of
suicide.

_____________________
Where 'irrationality' obtains, X & ~X are simultaneously true, criteria don't apply consistently, &
equivocation is no longer fallacious. [Reason:Faith :: Calculated risk:Gambling] ... "El sueno de la
razon produce monstruos."

'Faith', like love, is a dispositional not propositional expression; demanding it to be proven is a

category error no less than asserting it as a truth-claim is 'superstitious'. "Certainement qui est en
droit de vous rendre absurde est en droit de vous rendre injuste."

Reality does not require faith ... "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed
without evidence."

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 02:39 PM:

#11
Thanks for clarifying that for me mate.
I actually think this is a very deep thought, something that no other philosopher explaned.

Many philosophers have compared life to death and some came to the conclusion that is is more
worthy than life, while others devalued it completely, spurring everyone to rush to battle with it
and cherish life instead.

I think no philosopher was able to synthesize the two thoughts as succinctly as Cioran managed
to do so.

For me it is very weird (not for me in person, but for that other me who contemplates thoughts)
straddling between the hate for life & love for death, and yet being unable to kill yourself for the
reasons you mentioned. It's as if life and death is no longer a valid comparison, but rather death
and birth is.

Oh and his philosophy reminds of me of a post you posted a while ago 180 proof, where you said
that we are already dead and it doesn't matter whether we kill ourselves or not.

He has some really memorable quotes in his repertoire:

"If we could see ourselves as others see us, we would vanish on the spot."
"To want fame is to prefer dying scorned than forgotten."
"Consciousness is much more than the thorn, it is the dagger in the flesh."
"Suffering makes you live time in detail, moment after moment. Which is to say that it exists for
you: over the others, the ones who don't suffer, time flows, so that they don't live in time, in fact
they never have."
"Better to be an animal than a man, an insect than an animal, a plant than an insect, and so on.
Salvation? Whatever diminishes the kingdom of consciousness and compromises its supremacy."
"Paradise was unendurable, otherwise the first man would have adapted to it; this world is no less
so, since here we regret paradise or anticipate another one. What to do? where to go? Do
nothing and go nowhere, easy enough."
"Life is nothing; death, everything. Yet there is nothing which is death, independent of life. It is
precisely this absence of autonomous, distinct reality which makes death universal; it has no
realm of its own, it is omnipresent, like everything which lacks identity, limit, and bearing: an
indecent infinitude."
"I have always lived with the awareness of the impossibility of living. And what has made
existence endurable to me is my curiosity as to how I would get from one minute, one day, one
year to the next."
"No one recovers from the disease of being born, a deadly wound if there ever was one."

By the way, do you happen to have a link where I can read the book online?

Edited by dimka on Sep 2, 2006 - 03:05 PM

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everybody, then the universe would be largely the same. We’re completely irrelevant.” Lawrence
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"Reality has a way of testing our confidence when we discuss real things. When we discuss
fantasies and illusions, reality keeps quiet" - rabeldin
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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 06:07 PM:

#12
Cioran, a philosopher? If no death can undo the tragedy of having been born in the first place,
then why expect or express such a thing in the first place? In my opinion that seems like a poet?s
crocodile tears for attention or $$$.

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Posted Sep 2, 2006 - 08:05 PM:

#13
mackenneth wrote:
The idea of suffering, pain, hell-on-earth intrigues me.

If you havent read it already, you will LOVE Hesse's Der Steppenwolf

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Posted Sep 5, 2006 - 07:41 AM:

#14
nixnxin
You seem to have gotten it all wrong. Cioran says that life is suffering, etc etc so therefore one
should not have been born; tha is the reason for life - ok so far?

Then he says that death is an alternative but one still needs to have a hand in one's killing, be it
through natural causes (that can be accelerated) or suicide; that is the reason for death.

Life and death are the corollaries of our "existence" and therefore by the fact of us being born -
that unrectifiable mistake, nothing done in life or even death itself (since it would have to be self-
inflicted or come from nature itself that will destroy you) could ever remedy this.

_____________________
"Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language" -
Ludwig Wittgenstein
"If you got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the planets and all the aliens and
everybody, then the universe would be largely the same. We’re completely irrelevant.” Lawrence
M.Krauss
"Reality has a way of testing our confidence when we discuss real things. When we discuss
fantasies and illusions, reality keeps quiet" - rabeldin

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Posted Sep 6, 2006 - 09:00 PM:

#15
Ok, here we are. People do not like their consciousness, because it does not give them any
satisfying answer about life and death. At the same time people call life and death one and the
same thing, the existence of the matter. Life and death are the forms of existence of the matter
that creates person. Actually, there is only life, while death is people's invention. What is death?
Death is a tiny moment, a mark of comparison between two different forms of life. Those forms
might differ by the absence or presence of consciousness, or might not. There might be different
kind of consciousness inside the matter, that fills the Universe. ( Also, there are different kinds of
consciousness in animals).
Birth is also a mark of comparison, plus it is very smudged mark, 9 months long.
person is born out of live material ( who is to say that human cells have no consciousness?
Science might prove they have. Who knows.) Being born out of live material from the inside of the
live body is not really a birth out of nowhere, it is the joining of the new form
of existence, as if water was poured from one vessel into another. Birth is not appearing from the
outer-space of an alien, it is the continuation of the life of the rejuvenated matter, united, enriched
( and somehow with this painful consciousness ) . Ok, enriched matter lives, so to say, it has to
grow to overcome the Earth's conditions and laws of survival, which differ from those in the
womb. This system of bodily systems ( bay, child, etc) is constantly rejuvenating itself to continue,
some systems inside body do it faster, some a lot slower, their activities are mutually beneficial for
about twenty years, and then start bothering each other, moving a person move slowly towards
his next change of form. Death is a short mark, but has a heavy weight of attention, even though
it was a mark smudged over dozens of years. Now, the matter right after death ( the moment so
notable by humans, but for the Universe just a moment as any other) goes on existing by its
rules, of which we do know quite little. Does the snake cry when it sheds its skin? NO. It has
different consciousness.
People's consciousness does not let them play a cosmic peak-a boo, and they remain being
scared of disappearance of the living, as if they leave forever. They really don't. Every particle of
the matter gets recycled . What is on Earth, does not go too far, it all goes around, and comes
around. Earth is truly our Mother. If Earth was smaller, really tiny, to the point that people actually
see matter recycling itself, they'd get it batter and faster, that everything returns, only in another
form. The clay is the same, the vessel is new. They'd figure that they are soil, they are worms,
they are the trees, plants, they are animals, and they are people. It is all one. It is like changing
places, going out the door, and coming back. Problem is time (we want the return happen faster
and in more precise manner), the size of the planet ( we gain sense of being too small to be
important). But hey, we are smart, we can clown people now. WE can plant Japanese garden,
where everything is as on our planet, little bit of everything, so we gain sense of being masters of
our environment, where things constantly turn into something else). The magic of changing forms.
Who can't love that? Observing the magic of change is interesting. WEll, world is not on a loop, its
always some new music, or different interpretation. Yet notes are the same. One melody ended.
Is anybody crying? There is more to come.
Conclusion: death is one of the tiniest events of never-ending life, it is just an angle on a curve.
Suicide does not have any meaning, because it is the same thing. Suicide as trying to escape
consciousness is a tantrum of a spoiled person in front of the Universe, while Universe is not
buying. Universe is wiser, it made you, it has you, you can not fall off the Universe. Just accept it
as you accept your parents.

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Posted Sep 7, 2006 - 07:13 AM:

#16
Someone can curse the Universe, throw a tantrum, but perhaps, Universe can not afford yet to
give humans a better consciousness. Ever thought of that? Something is brewing, Universe might
be making a great effort to brake through its limitations, but can not quite give people too much,
because then somewhere else it creates misbalance, throwing Universe back to an even stronger
ownership of meaningless. People can be patient, they can keep hoping for better times to come,
and they can make their own effort to stay curious, and to be in the game as long as they can,
and as long as the Universe is capable of letting them. Instead of cursing, why not be a good
sport?

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Posted Dec 25, 2006 - 11:25 PM:

#17
nixnxin wrote:
Cioran, a philosopher? If no death can undo the tragedy of having been born in the first place,
then why expect or express such a thing in the first place? In my opinion that seems like a poet?s
crocodile tears for attention or $$$.

Honestly, did you read him?

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ipsist
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Posted Dec 26, 2006 - 08:41 PM:

#18
nixnxin wrote:
Cioran, a philosopher? If no death can undo the tragedy of having been born in the first place,
then why expect or express such a thing in the first place? In my opinion that seems like a poet s
crocodile tears for attention or $$$.

I agree. Statements of nihilism are self-defeating.

AidanMcLaren
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Posted Dec 27, 2006 - 02:19 AM:

#19
ipsist wrote:

I agree. Statements of nihilism are self-defeating.

Perhaps you don't realise he was the enemy of our decadence, our existentialist nihilism. He took
our arrogance to the darkness so we wouldn't be pretentious anymore.

Anyone accusing him for money are complete cowards, you too live for your ego that wants to be
recognised. Thank you for proving his point on just how you're all hypocritical nihilists.

Edited by AidanMcLaren on Dec 27, 2006 - 02:24 AM

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ipsist
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Posted Dec 27, 2006 - 06:06 PM:

#20
AidanMcLaren wrote:

Perhaps you don't realise he was the enemy of our decadence, our existentialist nihilism. He took
our arrogance to the darkness so we wouldn't be pretentious anymore.

Anyone accusing him for money are complete cowards, you too live for your ego that wants to be
recognised. Thank you for proving his point on just how you're all hypocritical nihilists.

You speak of Cioran with religious zeal. It sounds to me that for you Cioran was a prophet, whose
teachings are worthwhile and valuable in their own right. This attitude totally contradicts any
statement of nihilism.

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Posted Dec 27, 2006 - 07:07 PM:

#21
Cioran loved life in his own twisted way as he said in his latter interviews (when he was well into
his 60's).

Nihilism shouldn't be tackled in a logical way since, if taken at face value, it really does lose any
of the significance any theory would have, but, in a similar manner, any metaphysical position will
do since all of them are pure water speculations to begin with.

But yes, Nihilism is flawed and doesn't work well with logic.. it's also a very emotional journey.

_____________________
"Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of language" -
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"If you got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the planets and all the aliens and
everybody, then the universe would be largely the same. We’re completely irrelevant.” Lawrence
M.Krauss
"Reality has a way of testing our confidence when we discuss real things. When we discuss
fantasies and illusions, reality keeps quiet" - rabeldin

AidanMcLaren
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Posted Dec 28, 2006 - 12:44 AM:

#22
ipsist wrote:

You speak of Cioran with religious zeal. It sounds to me that for you Cioran was a prophet, whose
teachings are worthwhile and valuable in their own right. This attitude totally contradicts any
statement of nihilism.

Ha ha ha, a prophet? No, before I read Cioran I had the exact same beliefs.

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