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APPENDIX A

Joint Submission by Birkbeck, University of London


and the Open University to the Independent Review of
Higher Education Funding and Student Finance

January 2010

Version F2 19.01.10

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SUMMARY

1. When, in 2004, Parliament agreed that universities in England could charge fees of
up to £3,000 per annum to full-time undergraduates and that a system of student
loans should be introduced to help students pay those fees, the financial needs of
part-time students and the institutions that teach them were not considered. This
was a significant omission as 39% of all undergraduate students study part-
time.

2. Subsequently both John Denham (then Secretary of State for Innovation,


Universities and Skills) and Bill Rammell (then Minister for Higher Education)
accepted that this omission needed to be addressed and promised that the Fees
Review planned for 2009 would include part-time study.

3. The Higher Education Act of 2004 has effectively created a two-tier system of
financing higher education in which full-time undergraduate students receive
fee loans and generous grants but part-time students do not. For these
reasons, institutions can charge higher fees to full-time students and can
generate greater income from full-time programmes than from part-time
provision.

4. There are, therefore, clear incentives for institutions to grow full-time programmes
and run down part-time provision. Perversely, these incentives run directly counter
to three key national policy objectives: creating greater choice and flexibility in
English higher education, raising the skills level of the workforce and broadening
participation in higher education.

5. The key messages of this submission are:

a) Part-time higher education successfully underpins three major


policy objectives:

• providing the diversity and flexibility of provision that students require;

• re-skilling and up-skilling the UK workforce;

• bringing more people from non-traditional backgrounds into higher


education.

b) There is a significant funding gap between full-time and part-


time provision which has widened as a direct result of the introduction of
variable fees for full-time students and which hinders the achievement of these
objectives.

6. We develop these arguments below. As requested, we will offer our proposals for
closing the funding gap in a separate and subsequent submission to the
Independent Review.

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FLEXIBLE PROVISION

7. The traditional view of higher education is of full-time students aged 18-21 leaving
home and studying for three years at a residential, campus-based university. This
ignores the nearly half a million part-time undergraduates in English universities,
representing 39% of all undergraduate students.1 As the Conservative
spokesman on Higher Education, David Willetts, has observed:

HE institutions describe part-time students as the Cinderella sector of HE,


overlooked and under-funded. The independent review must look carefully at
part-time students. Who are they and how is the current funding regime
impacting upon them? How do we continue to attract part-time students into
the system?2

8. Part-time undergraduate students are a heterogeneous group and are very


different from their full-time counterparts. The vast majority are over the age of 25
(79% compared with 13% of full-timers), female (64% compared with 56% of full
timers) and work in full-time jobs. They also study a broad range of subjects (from
psychology to engineering), in very different ways (face-to-face, mixed media,
online), in various environments (campus-based, home-based, and work-based)
and for a number of different learning outcomes (course credits, certificates,
diplomas, foundation degrees, honour degrees, etc).

9. Three quarters of all undergraduates taking vocational and professional


qualifications study part-time. Nearly two-thirds (64%) of part-time undergraduates
study for such qualifications compared with just over a tenth (11%) of full-time
students. Part-time students form 81% of all undergraduates studying for
undergraduate professional qualifications and Diplomas and Certificates in HE;
50% of undergraduates aiming for Higher National Certificates and Diplomas; and
48% taking Foundation Degrees.3 Around 70,000 OU students in England and
27% at Birkbeck are studying STEM subjects and professional subjects.

10. Part-time undergraduate study, therefore, helps to create the range of choice and
responsiveness that a modern higher education system needs. It is more than
ever essential that this important dimension is proactively supported and
sustained. As the Government’s framework document, Higher Ambitions,
published in November 2009 said:

In order to attract a greater diversity of students, more part-time study, more


vocationally-based foundation degrees, more work-based study and more
study whilst living at home must be made available …. The next stage of
expansion in HE will hinge on providing opportunities for different types of
people to study in a wider range of ways than in the past. The focus will,
therefore, be on a great diversity of models of learning; part-time, work-based,
foundation degrees, and distance learning.4

1
Authors’ calculations from HESA Student Record, 2007-08. Figures relate to UK
domiciled undergraduates in English Higher Education Institutions
2
David Willetts (2007) Inaugural lecture to the Sheffield University Public Service Academy
3
Authors’ calculations from HESA Student Record, 2007-08. Figures relate to UK
domiciled undergraduates in English Higher Education Institutions

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11. Choice and opportunity will not come from privileging one sector or one type of
educational institution above another but from supporting a spectrum of
institutions, each offering a rich and sustainable provision to the widest audience.

PROVIDING A HIGH QUALITY LEARNING EXPERIENCE

12. Since the Higher Education Act of 2004, a sector-wide measure of the quality of
the learning experience of full- and part-time students has been introduced. The
Open University has been ranked the first or second university for student
satisfaction in the last four years of the National Student Survey. Birkbeck has
been rated number 1 in London by the NSS for student satisfaction in multi-faculty
HE institutions and ranked fourth nationally.

13. These results reflect the attention paid by the leading part-time providers to their
distinctive teaching methods, and the care with which they seek to meet the very
varied needs of their student population.

14. They also reflect the investment by these institutions in leading-edge applications
of learning technology. This has generated new forms of learner-centred
education, transforming the reach of universities and their capacity to respond to
the distinctive requirements and circumstances of their students. By exploiting the
possibilities of new media and the potential of social networking, the part-time
institutions have the capacity to build new bridges between informal and formal
learning and setting new standards for the sector as a whole.

15. Birkbeck submitted over 90% of its staff in the last Research Assessment
Exercise (RAE) and was ranked in the upper quartile of universities. The Open
University has climbed 23 places to 43rd in the latest RAE, making it one of the
UK’s fastest rising research universities. This research feeds directly into our
teaching and curriculum development, delivering a world class higher education
experience to our students.

RE-SKILLING AND UP-SKILLING THE WORKFORCE

16. As nations are emerging from the global recession, it is clear that the economies of
the developing countries are growing quicker than the Western world. Since 2007,
the biggest emerging markets – Brazil, Russia, India and China – have accounted
for 45% of global growth. In the face of this competition, developed countries such
as the UK must focus attention on upskilling its employment sector.5

17. Part-time higher education is a powerful engine of change in the British economy,
equipping today’s workforce with the high level skills necessary to remain
competitive internationally. As the Director-General of the CBI, Richard Lambert,
said in the Universities UK inaugural annual lecture in 2007:

4
BIS (2009) Higher Ambitions. The future of universities in the knowledge economy,
London
5
‘Emerging Markets and Recession’, The Economist, 2 January 2010 p24

4
Part-time and life-long learning have a crucial role to play in a modern
economy, where global competition and technological change mean that skills
and knowledge have constantly to be refreshed and upgraded through life.6

18. The importance of lifelong learning and workforce development takes on greater
significance when set against the demographic changes of the next few years. As
the Leitch report pointed out, most of the British workforce of the 2020s is already
in work and will need flexible learning options to attain the higher skill levels that
the country needs to compete in the knowledge based economy of the 21st
century. We cannot rely only on what will be a declining inflow of new graduates
from full-time programmes as a result of result of lowering birth dates.

19. Currently, more than 80% of part-time undergraduate students in England are in
paid work. The majority work in the public sector. Taken together, public
administration, education, health and social work account for as many of 60% of all
part-time undergraduate HE students in employment.7 Many of those who are not
in paid work are seeking or planning to return to work.

20. Research commissioned by Universities UK8 has shown that, while gaining a
qualification and having an interest in their subject of choice are important
motivations for study, part-time undergraduates largely study for vocational and
professional reasons. This is reiterated in a more recent national study9 of nearly
4,000 part-time students commissioned by HECSU. This study also showed that
nearly all students’ decisions to study were related to their career aims (89%), as
was their subject of study (92%). For the majority (78%), their courses were related
to their current occupation or employment, and they had clear career ambitions
and well-reasoned career plans.

21. This research also illustrates the considerable employment benefits of part-time
study and how it helps improve productivity. The vast majority of part-time students
used the skills and knowledge learnt on their courses in their jobs (83%). As a
direct result of their studies, their ability to do their job improved (67%), they took
on more responsibilities at work (54%), while their relationship with their employer
(53%) and their colleagues got better. Nearly a half of part-time students in their
final year of study had changed jobs and/or employer since starting their course,
especially those from low-income households.10

22. Research commissioned by BIS and HECSU on employer perspectives on part-


time students in higher education similarly highlights the productivity gains arising
from employees’ part-time study. Employers most often identify the advantages of
6
Richard Lambert (2007) Higher Education from a business perspective, UUK
http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/Newsroom/Speeches/Pages/Speech-77.aspx
7
Mason G. (2009, forthcoming) Employer perspectives on part-time students in UK higher
education HECSU, Manchester
8
Callender, C., Wilkinson D., and Mackinon K. (2006) Part-time students and part-time
study in higher education in the UK: A survey of students’ attitudes and experiences of
part-time study and its costs 2005/06, Universities UK/Guild HE, London
9
Callender, C., Hopkin, R., and Wilkinson D. (2009 forthcoming) Futuretrack: part-time
students career decision-making and career development of part-time higher education
students HECSU, Manchester
10
Callender et al (2009 forthcoming) HECSU op cit

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more knowledgeable and better qualified staff, and their enhanced skills for
performing their job. The majority of employers surveyed believed that employees
studying part-time tend to have superior skills and knowledge compared to new
graduates or those who gain their qualifications on full-time courses. 11

23. At the moment, part-time higher education has a crucial role to play in helping to lift
the UK economy out of recession. Part-time providers are uniquely placed to help
those individuals who need to reskill, having lost their jobs, as well as those who
wish to upskill in order to enhance their chances of retaining their current
employment or moving into new jobs and new sectors. In the middle of the current
recession, demand for part-time courses at Birkbeck and the OU has never been
greater. For the 2009/10 academic year, Birkbeck saw an 11% increase in degree
enrolments, while overall enrolments rose by 23%. The Open University is
forecasting that its numbers will increase by about 10% this year. Once economic
stability has been restored, part-time higher education will continue to be important
in helping students to improve their knowledge and skills and helping employers to
achieve continuous business improvement and productivity gains.

EMPLOYER SUPPORT FOR PART-TIME UNDERGRADUATES

24. The Government has repeatedly stated that employers should contribute more to
the costs of supporting employees who study. That would be a welcome
development if it could be achieved. However, employers point out that, while
businesses do already pay for courses that meet a particular requirement, they
cannot be expected to pay for a full undergraduate degree or qualification. For
instance, UUK research shows how increasingly employers are only willing or able
to pay for some modules rather than all those required for an entire qualification,
while others have withdrawn support completely.12

25. As shown, the majority of part-time students work in the public sector and their
employer-sponsored education and training is particularly at risk. As is well
established, employer sponsored education and training is particularly vulnerable
at times of fiscal constraint, especially where such spending is perceived to be
discretionary 13 and where training budgets are competing with other resources to
meet more pressing targets such as in the NHS. Indeed, a recent survey of
employers confirmed that the main barriers to supporting part-time study are the
financial costs of course fees and the time off work that employees need to study.14
Student surveys reveal that many part-time students retrain in order to change
their jobs and will, therefore, neither inform their employer they are studying nor
expect them to help. Indeed, for this reason they frequently will not inform their
university who their employer is.

26. Government research reveals that employer support is very unequally distributed.
Before the impact of current fiscal constraints, the Student Income and
Expenditure study found that just a third of part-time students received any
11
Mason (2009 forthcoming) op cit
12
Callender et al (2009 forthcoming) UUK op cit
13
K.Bishop and G. Mason, What is happening to employer-provided training in the
recession?, Centre for Learning and Life-Chances in Knowledge Economies and Societies,
London 2009 (forthcoming)
14
Mason (2009 forthcoming) BIS/HESCU op cit

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financial help from their employer.15 The proportions are lower at the Open
University and Birkbeck because of their broad studentship, curriculum and award
structure. Employer support is, in any case, highly selective. It is the highest
earners and those working full-time, already with a level 4 or 5 qualification and
taking vocational qualifications, who are most likely to be funded by their
employers, and they are predominantly white with a professional background.
Students with annual household incomes of over £50,000 per annum are twice as
likely to be financed by their employer as students with household incomes of
£25,000 or less.16 Those most in need of financial support do not necessarily
receive help from their employer.

27. From employers’ perspective, as research shows17, there is an understandable


logic to sponsoring employees who have already proved themselves in higher
education. Large majorities of employers who contribute to their employees’ tuition
fees stipulate that courses have to be work-related. More than half of them report
that employees are obliged to pay back fees if they leave the firm or organisation
before a certain time period has elapsed. This latter condition may constrain labour
market mobility.

28. However, when employers assess the cost-effectiveness of supporting existing


employees to gain further qualifications versus external recruitment, many
employers place high value on the job- and establishment-specific experience
already possessed by existing employees as well as the new skills and knowledge
they are expected to gain through part-time HE study.18

PART-TIME PROVISION AND WIDENING PARTICIPATION

29. Part-time study plays a crucial role in widening access to higher education for non-
traditional students.

30. It provides a second chance to those who had a poor experience of education
early in life and who left school with few or no formal academic qualifications.
Currently, at least 40% of part-time students aiming for an undergraduate
qualification in England have a qualification below Level 4 or equivalent, or no
qualifications at all.19

31. Part-time higher education also provides opportunities for those from relatively
poor backgrounds. The latest Student Income and Expenditure Survey found that
29 % of part-time undergraduate students in England belonged to the routine or
manual socio-economic group – a higher proportion than full-time students. Their
average household income was around £20,000 in 2007-08,20 which is well below
the UK’s average income per household.21

15
Johnson C, Pollard E, Hunt W, Munro M and Hillage J (2009) Student Income and
Expenditure Survey 2007/08 English Domiciled Students DIUS Research Report 09 05
16
Callender et al (2009 forthcoming) HECSU op cit
17
Mason (2009 forthcoming) BIS/HECSU op cit
18
Mason (2009 forthcoming) BIS/HECSU op cit
19
Authors’ calculations op cit. It was not possible to classify the entry qualifications of 20%
of part-time undergraduates
20
Authors’ calculations from SIES 2007/08

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32. And it provides opportunities for those who are currently outside the workforce –
the long term unemployed and those returning to work after periods of illness or
disability or caring – to resume employment and reduce their claims on the social
security system. These groups often find this transition difficult, and require a
highly flexible higher education system, fully responsive to their personal, domestic
and employment circumstances.

33. The vast majority of students study part-time because they cannot afford to study
full-time.22 As the Director-General of the CBI said, speaking of part-time students:

They are not particularly well off. Affordability is very important when it comes
to studying. For many of them, the choice is not between part-time or full-time:
it’s part-time or nothing at all.

34. This is confirmed by the Student Income and Expenditure Survey. It showed that,
of the 30% of part-time students who said their decisions about HE study were
affected by the student financial support available, the vast majority (70%) would
not have studied without funding, while for a sizable minority (45%) it affected their
decision whether to study full- or part-time.23

35. There are more than six million adults of working age currently possessing only A-
Levels or equivalent qualifications. It is a statistic recognised in Higher Ambitions:

There exists a large pool of untapped talent in the workforce, many of whom
could benefit from higher education. Furthermore, recent research indicates
that around four million adults would actively consider going to university if it
was more accessible and they could be provided with financial support.
Raising the potential of our workforce must involve drawing more of these
people into higher education, while also strengthening the skills pipeline that
helps young people and adults gain skills and qualifications at every level.

THE FUNDING GAP CREATED BY THE 2004 HIGHER EDUCATION ACT

36. Currently there are serious financial inequities in the treatment of part-time and full-
time undergraduate students. New UUK research suggests that the current system
of part-time student financial support together with the funding of part-time
provision have contributed to falls in participation and to the decline of part-time
undergraduate provision across the HE sector.24 Consequently, there are now
clear financial incentives for mixed mode HE institutions to grow full-time
programmes at the expense of part-time programmes. Without further reforms, this
could destabilise the sector.

37. All full-time students have access to non means-tested student loans, so
effectively their study is free at the point of entry. Part-time students have to pay
their fees up front and largely from their own pockets. Fee and course grants are
21
ONS Average income per household 2007/08 for United Kingdom
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=334
22
Callender et al (2009 forthcoming) HECSU op cit
23
Johnson et al (2009) op cit
24
Callender, C., Mason, G., and Jamieson, A (2009 forthcoming) The Supply of Part-time
Provision in Higher Education, UUK, London

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available to some part-time students but they are means tested, have very low
income thresholds, and are capped at levels that provide only partial fee support.
Both the fee and course grant are available only to those who study at or above
half the full-time rate. Nearly two-thirds of part-time students in England study at
below this level and so are automatically ineligible for any government financial
support.25

38. A recent research paper, Educating Rita, published by the Policy Exchange, found
that:

A staggering 90% of part-time students do not receive any financial help from
the Government. In 2007-08 the Government provided just £40.2 million in
tuition fee and course grants for part-time students. This is less than 5% of the
£936.9 million spent on maintenance and tuition fee grants for full-time
students, leaving aside the billions spent on student loans.26

39. It concluded:

For too long part-time students have been the forgotten cohort of the student
population, severely underfunded and firmly off the political agenda because
reversing this inequity would be seen as costly.

40. The wall between the funding of full- and part-time students contrasts sharply with
systems in other developed countries which allocate support based on household
income with no distinction made between modes of study. As the University
Alliance notes in its submission to the Review:

The 2006 system introduced a false divide between part-time and full-time
study that does not exist in terms of the student experience (or in terms of
institutional funding which is distributed on a basis of study load or ‘full-time
equivalent’). The false dichotomy between part-time and full-time study has
already been dropped in many of our competitor countries in favour of a
spectrum of intensity of study or ‘study load’. This reflects the reality of the
student’s experience much more accurately.

41. It is not just part-time students that require additional financial support but also the
institutions that teach them. The disparity in resources for part-time as against full-
time provision is a direct result of the introduction of variable fees for full-time
students in 2006.

42. Universities now charge full-time students higher fees than part-time students, so
the funds available for teaching full-timers significantly exceeds that available for
part-time students (per Full Time Equivalent [FTE]). Universities with a high
proportion of their student body attending on a full-time basis, therefore, have a
clear resource advantage over those with a high proportion of part-time students.
Institutions such at the Open University and Birkbeck, which teach only part-time

25
Authors’ calculations from HESA Student Record, 2007-08. Figures relate to UK
domiciled undergraduates in English Higher Education Institutions
26
Fazackerley, A., Callender, C., Chant, J., and Wilkinson, D. (2009) Educating Rita? A
model to address inadequate state support for part-time students Research Note, Policy
Exchange, London

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students, are by comparison put at a serious financial disadvantage and are
unable to invest as much in teaching and student support as mixed mode
universities.

43. To help fill this gap in funding HEIs have raised their part-time fees since 2006 at a
rate much higher than inflation. However, evidence shows that nationally only a
minority have increased them pro-rata to the maximum full-time undergraduate
fee, as was the case before the 2004 Higher Education Act came into force.27

44. Yet, the current HEFCE funding methodology assumes the same fee income per
FTE student for both full- and part-time students in the calculation of the assumed
resource. Nearly all universities actually obtain this assumed fee income for their
full-time undergraduates.28 This is not the case for all part-time undergraduates,
especially where universities have decided not to increase their part-time fees
because of concerns about the impact on participation and widening access.

45. This assumed rather than actual fee income within the current HEFCE teaching
grant puts universities with a large proportion of part-time undergraduate provision
at a real financial disadvantage compared with those institutions with high full-time
provision. And for specialist part-time institutions like Birkbeck and the Open
University, they have no opportunities for cross-subsiding their part-time study with
income derived from full-time provision.

46. The current HEFCE funding methodology works against part-time providers in
other ways. Specifically, the inadequacy of part-time targeted allocations in the
teaching grant. These are designed to take into account some of the additional
costs of teaching part-time students and the fact that funding allocations are based
on FTEs rather than the actual number of students enrolled. For instance, Birkbeck
has 19,000 students but is funded for 4,600 FTEs.

47. The part-time targeted allocation is calculated as 10% of the unweighted part-time
student FTE.29 The HEFCE has agreed to increase this to 15% until 2011/12 but
has made no commitments beyond then.30 However, HEFCE research31 suggests
that on a full-time equivalent basis the costs of part-time students to an institution
could be up to 44% more than a full-time student. This shortfall between the part-
time targeted allocation and the actual costs of delivering part-time study as
calculated by HEFCE’s research, highlights why universities with high levels of
part-time provision and whose part-time students make up a large proportion of
their student body are at a financial disadvantage compared with universities
dominated by full-time provision.

27
UUK (2009) Variable tuition fees in England: assessing their impact on students and
higher education institutions A fourth Report, UUK, London
28
In 2009/10 all but a handful of HEI charged the maximum tuition fee of £3,225 for their
first degree courses although there was greater variation for Foundation Degrees and HE
delivered by Further Education Colleges
29
HEFCE (2008) Funding higher education in England, HEFCE, Bristol p18
30
HEFCE (2008) Withdrawal of funding for equivalent or lower qualifications (ELQs):
Outcomes of consultation, Bristol
31
JM Consulting Ltd (2003) The costs of alternative modes of delivery
ttp://www.hefce.ac.uk/pubs/rdreports/2003/rd14_03/ Accessed 12/6/2009

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48. There are now clear incentives for mixed mode HE institutions to grow full-time
programmes and run down part-time provision, an effect compounded by the
decision to withdraw funding for so-called ELQ students which has impacted
particularly on this sector. This is confirmed by new UUK research, which
examined the factors facilitating and inhibiting the supply of part-time provision in
higher education.32 It concluded that, together, the current funding methodology
and the increases in part-time tuition fees constrained part-time provision and its
growth, and contributed to a decline in part-time programmes. In turn, the higher
up-front part-time fees, in a climate of economic decline, had depressed demand
and reduced participation.

49. Nationally, part-time numbers have fallen since 2006 while full-time numbers have
risen. In the Open University and Birkbeck, however, numbers have actually
increased over this period.

CASE STUDIES

From teenage mother to graduate nurse


50. Patricia Murray (42) dropped out of secondary school when she became pregnant
with her first child and thought she wouldn’t return to education. After working as a
classroom assistant for a number of years, she decided to become a nurse and
started a full-time Access course in Hammersmith. Living in Essex, Patricia found
that juggling the long commute with her responsibilities as a single mum was too
much and she dropped out.

51. Seeing an advert for Birkbeck Stratford’s part-time Higher Education Introductory
Studies course, Patricia knew that this was the opportunity she had been waiting
for. “It gave me hope that I might still be able to follow my dream. The flexibility of
the course enabled me to manage my time efficiently, plus studying locally made it
instantly more achievable. “

52. She is currently half way through the certificate and is planning to apply for a
degree in nursing. “My confidence and skills are growing all the time. So many
other opportunities have passed me by and I feel like this is finally my time. I am
the happiest I have been in a long time and it is all thanks to Birkbeck. “

From university drop-out to qualified teacher


53. Sean Clarke (25) went to the University of Essex to study Sports Science straight
from school but left after the second year. “I had always wanted to get a degree
but studying full time wasn’t right for me. My mum saw a Birkbeck poster on the
tube advertising part-time degrees so I decided to apply.”

54. “During the course I met my wife and had two children and my degree then
became something I wanted to do for my family, to create a better standard of
living for us all.” Sean found it a challenge to juggle study with working full time,
and spending time with his family. “It is a balancing act and you can’t let anything
slip. Work pays your bills but the degree is something you need to do to improve
yourself.”

32
Callender et al (2009 forthcoming) UUK op cit

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55. Sean decided that on graduating he would train to become a secondary school
teacher. “I wanted to be able to use my degree in a practical way. I was always
interested in education and I am looking forward to teaching others.”

56. “The great thing about Birkbeck is that it doesn’t just place merit on educational
achievements, it also values other types of intelligence and experience. It’s given
me the opportunity to become the first person in my family to get a degree and has
made my parents, wife and children proud of me.”

From postman to computer programmer


57. Working as a postman, Chris Gilbert (37) had a fair bit of time on his hands after
finishing his shifts and he opted to begin a programme of study with The Open
University. “I was enjoying being a postman, but it wasn’t a mentally challenging
job,” he said.

58. Studying Computing and Mathematical Science helped Chris get a job as a trainee
computer programmer. “At the interview I talked about my OU study, which
seemed to really impress the panel”.

59. Although much of the training in his new role was on the job, Chris found that his
OU courses helped him to understand the theories behind the practice. “Many
people do a degree and then when they get into a job the information from that
goes to the back of their mind. Because my OU studies were closely linked to my
job, it was easier to get to grips with.”

60. Chris even went on to run training sessions within his workplace, passing on the
learning he had gained from his OU studies and relating it to the job at hand. Ten
years on from starting with the OU and with a new career path begun, Chris says,
“I feel so proud to be picking up my degree. It will feel really good to go up there at
the ceremony in front of my children.”

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