PUBLICATIONS

4. INTERVIEWS

• Felipe Martínez. “A Conversation with Dr. Paulo Moreira.” A Missing Book. Web. 22 May 2013.
<http://thedeviltopayinthebacklands.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/a-conversation-with-dr-paulo-
moreira/>

• Itamar Rigueira Jr. “Contos em coletânea imaginária.” Boletim UFMG. 1810:39 (2013). Web. 22
May 2013. <https://www.ufmg.br/boletim/bol1810/7.shtml>

• Roberto B. de Carvalho. “Foco na Periferia.” Ciência Hoje / SobreCultura. Revista Ciência

Hoje, 5 June 2013. Web. 14 August 2013 < http://cienciahoje.uol.com.br/revista-
ch/sobrecultura/2013/06/foco-na-periferia>
A Conversation with Dr. Paulo Moreira | On The Devil To Pay In The Backlands, or Grande Sertao: Veredas 12/5/13 1:11 PM

On The Devil To Pay In The Backlands, or Grande

Sertao: Veredas

FEB 06 2012
2 COMMENTS
BY ROCOCOMOCO CONVERSATION

A Conversation with Dr. Paulo Moreira

1
2 Votes

Yale
UNIVERSITY

(http: / / thedeviltopayinthebacklands.files.wordpress.com/2012/ 02 / vale logo.png')

Dr. Paulo Moreira is Assistant Professor of Spanish & Portuguese at Yale University, and the author
of Regionalism and Modernism in the Short Stories of William Faulkner, Joao Guimaraes Rosa, and Juan
Rulfo. Originally his dissertation at the University of California, Santa Barbara, Regionalism and
Modernism in the Short Stories of William Faulkner, Joao Guimaraes Rosa, and Juan Rulfo is now available

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in book form in Brazil. He is also currently translating a collection of William Faulkner's short
stories into Portuguese.

In July I had the opportunity to skype with Dr. Moreira. I was in San Diego while he was in Belo
Horizonte preparing to attend the 2011 BRASA Conference. This conversation, while presented here
in fragments, lasted two hours, and covered a wide range of topics concerning Joao Guimaraes
Rosa. I would like to thank Dr. Moreira for his help & support.

Felipe Martinez: Dr. Moreira, I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me.

Paulo Moreira: It's my pleasure. I really love A Missing Book. It's very exciting to see something
like it in English. You know that Guimaraes Rosa is still mostly unknown in the United States, and
it's difficult to find resources in English to share with other people. I attended a meeting last month
at Yale where they discussed the idea of expanding the courses on canonized literature, which they
call Directed Studies at Yale. They are thinking of expanding it to include Latin America, Asia, and
Africa. At this meeting, I talked to people about Guimaraes Rosa, and some there, who had never
heard of Rosa, were really interested in learning more about him. Unfortunately, we don't have a
really good translation of Grande Sertao: Veredas, but I was able to send them a couple of short
stories, and they loved them. You know it's really all about having translations that are not only
"good," but meaningful. That's why I'm so looking forward to having a new translation of Grande
Sertao: Veredas.

FM: Well, you know that my first experience with Guimaraes Rosa was with The Devil to Pay in the
Backlands, and, while I know it may be a clunky translation, it's a beautiful book nonetheless. A
brilliant story is still conveyed, and at the very least it's an effective translation—though incomplete.

PM: I have taught a class at Yale based on my book about Rulfo, Guimaraes Rosa, and Faulkner,
Modernismo Localista nas Americas: os contos de Guimaraes Rosa, Faulkner and Rulfo, and I did
ask my students to read the English translation. And I had to make photocopies of it, because, as
you know, it's not easily available anymore. I had them read it because I do think it's effective, but I
still strongly believe we need a new translation.

FM: I completely agree. When I began A Missing Book, it was because I read The Devil to Pay in the
Backlands, and the first thing I thought was that more people needed to know the book. Later, I also
realized that meant we would need a new translation. I entered it with the mind frame of 'I want
people to be able to read this work. How do I do that?' I was very lucky to have the opportunity to
connect with Professor David Treece.

PM: One of the stories I sent to my colleagues at Yale was David Treece's translation of "The
Jaguar". I really think it's one of the best translations of Guimaraes Rosa.

Translation
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PM: Lets take Faulkner for example. Faulkner's been recently retranslated in Brazil. The publisher is
very reputable, and they hired really good people to work with the novels of Faulkner. They're
great editions, yet, if you read them in Portuguese, I'm sure you're not going to see the same
Faulkner—of course. There are always issues that can be raised about the translation of someone
who works with language on the level of Guimaraes Rosa or Faulkner. I think it's an easy criticism
when you take the original, and then you complain about certain features of the original that are not
there. All translations work this way. As a translator, you have to negotiate, and you have to write
something that is compelling, interesting, and exciting. If you read Guimaraes Rosa's letters to his
translators, he was telling them that they didn't have to follow to the original too closely. He said:
'write your own way. Find your own solutions. Don't worry too much about sticking to the
original.' So, when I hear someone criticizing any translation for not being like the original, I stop
listening. You know: that's the obvious thing! It's not the original. I've translated a couple of
Faulkner's short stories for a very interesting website in Rio called Portal Literal ("Wash
(http:/ / portalliteral.terra.com.br/banco/texto/wash-de-william-faulknerV and "Celeiro
queimando" / "Burning Barn (http: / / portalliteral.terra.com.br/banco / texto / celeiro-queimando-de-
william -faulkner)"), and I found, that as a translator, you have to make some very difficult
decisions. You have to leave things out, and you have to bring things in. I think David Treece had to
make some very tough choices in translating "The Jaguar". It's a very difficult story, and it's one of
Guimaraes Rosa's most complex works as far as language is concerned. I think Treece did a really,
really good job. It's a really interesting story.

FM: I thought so too. I read Giovanni Ponteiro's translation before I found Treece's, and I have to
say that while I loved Ponteiro's version, Treece's had something...just a bit more. In 1997,
Ponteiros's translation was a step, and in 2001, Treece took another step towards providing the
English-speaking world with a work we would have otherwise not known. For me, translation is a
privilege. It's nothing to scoff at when you can't read the original in the first place. A glimpse of
something other than what you see and know in your own language: it's amazing to me. And that's
why I think The Devil to Pay in the Backlands was so important.

PM: Exactly. You know, I say to my friends who argue against translation: do you read Russian? They
say No. And I say: what about Dostoyevsky, or Chekov, or any of the Great Russian writers that you only
know from translations ? Sure, you have to take the word of people who work with translations to
know this is good, or this is bad, but ultimately, the translation is all you have. You are probably not
going to learn Russian well enough to read Great Russian literature—and even if you do! Then
there's German, there's Swedish, there's Italian, and Japanese and Chinese...you have to rely on
translation. The same thing happens with semiotic translation, when someone adapts a book or
short story to film. There's always the easy criticism which is oh, it didn't have this, or: it didn't have
that, or: it wasn't the way 1 imagined this character to be..., and in my own experience, I think the best
adaptations, which is a form of translation, are the ones that end up being great movies. Even if they
are markedly different from the original version. I think an excellent example of this is the film
Mutum. I think it's the best adaptation of a story by Guimaraes Rosa, and it's an important story

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which has not been translated into English yet, "Campo Geral," also known as "Miguilim." I know
there is a recent and beautiful translation of the story in Mexico, but it hasn't been translated into
English. Anyway, it's a beautiful movie, the adaptation of this story. The film differs greatly from
the story, however. The film is filled with silences. You don't have half of the words that are used in
the story. But that doesn't take away from it. It's beautiful, and it is a true adaptation of Guimaraes
Rosa's work—like I said: the best. So, that being said, the very best translation of Grande Sertao:
Veredas will not be perfect. And I think ten, twenty, a hundred years from the moment a new
translation comes out, someone will hopefully be able to improve upon it. And that's the point, you
build and improve upon the previous translation. So, the translation of De Oms and Taylor is not
wasted work. It's something translators should build on. There are passages in The Devil to Pay in the
Backlands that are good. Have you read Harriet De Oms's translation of Sagarana?

FM: I've read some of the stories.

PM: I think it's a very good translation. The work she did with Sagarana really captures the spirit of
the book as a whole. Fve read some of the letters exchanged between Guimaraes Rosa and De Oms.
She wasn't really fluent in Portuguese. And he wasn't very fluent in English. There's a very exciting
debate in their correspondence where he is outside of his comfort zone, and he is trying to make
suggestions to her, and she doesn't like the suggestions. There's a sort of tension there that makes
for very interesting reading. With his German and Italian translators, he was much better at
smoothing over their relationship. He loved to flatter his translators.

Cordisburgo/Brazil/The World/The Universe

PM: The tiny little town where Guimaraes Rosa was born. Now, this is a great trip to make. The
town really is small. It used to be on the railway line. The roads followed different paths then, so it's
kind of lost in the middle of somewhere now. The people there really embraced Guimaraes Rosa. So
much so that they teach his stories to the children and teenagers of the town, who then memorize
the stories by heart. These students will take visitors on walks through the surroundings and the
students will recite entire short stories by Guimaraes Rosa. Also there, you have the house where he
was born and spent the first years of his life before he came to Belo Horizonte. Every July, as you
know, they have a week of celebrations in honor of Guimaraes Rosa. They invite people to give
talks, they have music, theater, all kinds of great things during that week. The great thing: there's
only one hotel in the town. So when that week comes, and so many people go to Cordisburgo to
celebrate, the residents there turn their homes into bed & breakfasts, and open up their homes to
visitors. It is definitely a great experience. I think going there gives one a new appreciation of
Guimaraes Rosa's work.

You know, in Brazil, there was a tendency for quite a few years to emphasize what people
understood as "the universal appeal" of Guimaraes Rosa. You have to understand that Guimaraes

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Rosa, Faulkner & Rulfo published some of their most important works precisely in the moment
when, in the United States, Mexico, and in Brazil, there was a general rejection to what people
identified as "regionalist" or "rural" themes in literature. These three writers faced a lot of criticism.
Some people were frankly upset with what Guimaraes Rosa was writing about in the fifties. At a
time when everyone was saying that the country was modernizing, and that it was the time for the
great Brazilian Urban novel...all of a sudden Guimaraes Rosa comes along—^he writes great
literature, and everybody recognizes this—^but he's writing on rural themes that were considered out
of fashion and out of tune with the country in its stage of development. So, for many years, the tone
of many critics was to say that Guimaraes Rosa's relationship to Minas Gerais was just the surface of
his work, something superficial; that to understand the true value of his work, you had to pierce
through this, apparently, regional "crust"—the real value being something "universal". In my book,
I argue about this. It's a huge mistake that made people, for many years, trying to ignore or
downplay the importance of region in the work of Guimaraes Rosa. If you look at the way he wrote
his stories, and the relationship that the stories have with the actual locations he was writing about,
it's really interesting. Because it's far from a typical regionalist representation of the countryside. It
takes liberties, it's freer, and it's wilder, and it mixes and shuffles precise cultural elements from
different parts of the state.

The Jaguar

PM: In the free time I don't have, I'm writing a paper on "The Jaguar", because I think there are a lot
of things people overlooked when they studied the story. First, Guimaraes Rosa had first-hand
contact with indigenous people in Brazil, especially in Minas Gerais, because he worked at the
service for the protection of the indigenous people; and second, he wrote that story under the
impact of the first case of a massacre of indigenous peoples in Brazil that was tried in court. It
involved the Kraoh, the tribe around which the protagonist of "The Jaguar" grew up. The Kraohs
are interesting in many ways, and Guimaraes Rosa was obviously aware of many of their
characteristics; and he played with them in the story in a very interesting and exciting way. First, the
Kraohs were great jaguar hunters, and so they were hired in the nineteenth century by farmers to
hunt jaguars. As the frontier was moving inland, the major farming was cattle farming, and the first
concern they had was to get rid of the all the jaguars, which preyed on the cattle. But the Kraohs,
after a while, were not only hired to kill jaguars, but also, sometimes, even other Indians. The
second important thing about the Kraohs, unlike many other tribes in Brazil, was: they accepted
outsiders into the tribe. If you notice in the story of the jaguar, the protagonist is not Kraoh, his
mother is not a Kraoh, she's from another tribe, which is massacred, and so she is accepted into the
Kraohs. —which all fits into the description of the behavior of the tribe in "The Jaguar".

Furthermore the Kraohs became famous in the fifties, shortly after the first indigenous massacre,
when a member of the Kraohs had a vision: that in the near future, Indians would become whites
and whites would become Indians. But that in order for that to happen, in order for the Kraohs to

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become white people, they had to forsake all their customs. And so the whole idea of rejecting
indigenous identity is also a part of the psychology of the Kraohs. At the time Guimaraes Rosa is
writing "The Jaguar", about a man of mixed ethnic heritage—his father is white, his mother is
indigenous—who is clearly torn between his allegiance to his totem, the jaguar, and his allegiance to
white people who are bent on wiping out the jaguars. There's a sort of short circuit there, where
instead of dejaguarizing the region, he stars to dehumanize the region by killing every human
around.

Guimaraes Rosa was obviously aware of all this, of the story, and he's playing with it in a very
creative way. It's not a faithful representation of Kraohs, or the Kraoh culture, or the historical
events related to the Kraohs, but a sort of free interpretation of all these things into one fiction. One
of the key points in my book is that for Rulfo, Guimaraes Rosa and Faulkner, Modernism—and I
mean that here in the English sense—was very important, because it freed them from mimetic
representation. It allowed them to see literary representation as interpretation, rather than as
depiction of things the way they were. And it was the key moment when they were finally free to
write about these places and be Modern.

Location/Location/Location

PM: By writing about these local places, Rulfo, Guimaraes Rosa and Faulkner were able to solve this
false paradox—which was prevalent at the time they were writing—which was summed up in this
statement: Latin America and the American South are condemned to write old-fashioned, realist
literature, because Modernist literature is the expression of the big, urban, industrialized centers. In
other words: if you weren't writing about Modern life, you weren't a Modernist. For this reason, a
lot of people were expecting the great urban novel out of Mexico and Brazil. They expected the big
urban novel because they thought it would be the expression of these countries' development, of the
entry of these countries into full Modernity. William Faulkner is especially important for Rulfo, and,
as another example, for Gabriel Garcia Marquez, exactly because he shows that one could write
about this little place in Mississippi, this marginal place in Mississippi. Mississippi is a marginal
place in the south, and the south is a marginal place in the United States—marginal from both the
cultural and the economic centers of the United States—and yet, Faulkner was able to write high
Modernism based on this little region in northern Mississippi. I believe this was a source of
liberation for Rulfo who grew up in the south of Jalisco, which is marginal to the state's capital,
Guadalajara. He was tied to Jalisco, and Faulkner showed Rulfo that he could set his stories in this
place and draw on his own knowledge to write fiction, great modern fiction based on that place.
And I believe it was the same in the case of Guimaraes Rosa too. He had this almost anthropological

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interest in everything from his region of Minas Gerais. For example, I found published in the literary
supplement, Suplemento Literdrio Minas Gerais, one very interesting, unpretentious work about one
short story, and not one of his well-known pieces, called "Mecheu". Ifs from the last book
published in his lifetime, Tutameia, and the story is more of a character sketch of a man called
Mecheu. So in the Suplemento Literdrio, a man found a letter written by Guimaraes Rosa to a cousin
who lived near Cordisburgo, and in the letter, Guimaraes Rosa asks about a guy he'd met on his
cousin's farm, one Mecheu. The letter by Guimaraes Rosa is in the form of a myriad of specific
questions about Mecheu. Rosa asks things like: what kind of food did he eat? Did he curse? Did he
go to church? Did he say blasphemous things? Very detailed questions.

This is a pattern in Guimaraes Rosa's life.

Guimaraes Rosa was a doctor, a diplomat, he would come back to the countryside and people
would ask him if he wanted to meet the mayor, the poet of the city, the doctor, but he was always
looking for the gypsies, the beggars, the prostitutes, the children! These were the people he was
interested in, and they were the people he wrote about. A large majority of Guimaraes Rosa's
characters are beggars, the insane, travelling salesmen, prostitutes, gypsies. There are people in
Itaguara who say "you know, Guimaraes Rosa was really odd, because he would spend an amazing
amount of time talking to gypsies." There was a gypsy camp nearby, and he would visit it every day
and talk to them for hours. He was trying to learn their language, and people in the city thought it
was really weird.

So, his cousin writes back a long letter in which he answers everything Guimaraes Rosa had asked
about Mecheu. It's interesting when you take the two letters and put them together with the story in
Tutameia, because you will find the incredible ways in which he used the real material to create
stories. In fact, you will find whole paragraphs in the story "Mecheu" that were written by Rosa's
cousin. It's interesting also to see in which ways he stays true to the real Mecheu, and the moments
when he departs from the actual Mecheu to create his fictional character. It's something I'm very
interested in, because it hasn't been fully explored. And why hasn't it been fully explored? Because
critics in Brazil were always banging out the same message over and over again: Guimaraes Rosa is
universal, Guimaraes Rosa is universal, Guimaraes Rosa is worth reading because it holds the great
truths of the human heart...and the great western tradition he follows. There are countless works by
people tracing neo-platonic philosophy in his work...religious references in his work...things like
that. You see the point of view in the fifties and sixties, and even into the seventies, was that you
had to prove that Guimaraes Rosa was worth being read all over the world, and that he had a great
contribution to make to world literature. They really had to emphasize his western credentials,
which I think was a mistake. And that's not to say that I mean he has not been influenced by Neo-
Platonism, that he did not read and use it in his literature. What I'm trying to do is repeat the
gesture that he made: to break with this dichotomy and work with both sources, to reject this idea
that there is a clear-cut division between what is western and non-western. In the Americas, at least.
In African American culture in the United States, for instance, we cannot identify precisely what is
African and what is non-African. In this case you see a true fusion, and it becomes impossible to
pinpoint what is western and what is non-western. Or, for example, Camara Cascudo, a famous
scholar who studied folklore in the first half of the twentieth century in Brazil, points to the fact that

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sometimes people assumed that certain oral narratives were African, only to discover that they had
been taken to Africa by the Portuguese (who might've gotten it from the Arabs), and then adopted
and adapted by Africans, so: it was hard to tell whether the story came from Africans or the
Portuguese. It's pointless to say that whatever comes from Africa is non-western.

William Faulkner, Joao Guimaraes Rosa & Juan Rulfo

PM: All three writers, Faulkner, Guimaraes Rosa and Rulfo, in a given moment in their careers,
played with the self-image of the countryside, simple man, but they were all quite erudite. They
were definitely aware of the avant-garde and high modernism. Faulkner read fluently in both
English and French. In the case of Rulfo, among his papers, a review has been found of Faulkner's
Absalom! Absalom!—IN ENGLISH! And I can tell you that Rulfo was one of the very, very few Latin
Americans to read William Faulkner in English. The others, like Gabriel Garcia Marquez, probably
read Faulkner in French. And Rulfo, as far as reading was concerned, was amazingly erudite. He
could sit down and talk to you about Swedish literature, Norwich literature, Russian literature, and
he knew a lot about Brazilian literature. There's a very interesting Mexican writer named Daniel
Sada - Sada died last year. If you read anything by Sada, I'm sure you're going to recognize
Guimaraes Rosa's influence. He won the very prestigious prize in 2008, the Herralde, and he writes
both novels and short stories. I spoke with Sada myself. He had workshop classes with Juan Rulfo
in the seventies, and he told me: 'Rulfo knew everything about Brazilian literature, and he told me
that the best Latin American writer ever, was not Borges, was not Garcia Marquez, was not Rulfo
himself, but Guimaraes Rosa.' The reason why Sada read Guimaraes Rosa, and Clarice Lispector,
along with a host of other writers from Brazil, was because Rulfo told him about these writers.
Rulfo had a great amount of admiration for Brazilian literature, and for Guimaraes Rosa in
particular.

Not in this book, but in another book I'm currently writing, I talk about this fantastic trip that
Guimaraes Rosa and Juan Rulfo took together by bus from Mexico City to Guadalajara. It was a
seventeen-hour bus ride, and it happened because Guimaraes Rosa wrote to Rulfo telling him he
was going to Mexico for an event full of dinners and talks, and he wanted just the two of them to do
something. While doing research I found, among Guimaraes Rosa's papers, a label from a pumpkin
preserve Guimaraes Rosa bought on that trip. It was a seventeen-hour bus ride from Mexico City to
Guadalajara, with all the stops imaginable in between, and along the entire way they ate sweets and
cheeses and talked about the Mexican countryside, which Rulfo knew all about, and exchanged
stories about big criminals and horrible crimes in Minas Gerais and in Jalisco. They were good
friends even though they only met two or three times, and Rulfo always talked about the high
regard he held for Guimaraes Rosa. Jose Maria Arguedas, in his diary, wrote about meeting
Guimaraes Rosa and Rulfo at those meetings of Latin American writers, and he writes about the
kinship he felt with them, and the arrogance he felt in Vargas Llosa and Fuentes, for example. And
maybe this was just Arguedas perception, but he felt that they were being slighted because they

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were not big shot, cosmopolitan writers in Europe. Juan Rulfo was a very shy man, and he was not
keen on speaking in public, and that was sometimes interpreted as if Rulfo was a man with no
culture, a man with no interests. Some people in Mexico would even insinuate that Rulfo would not
have published anything if it were not for the help of certain individuals. When the Latin American
Boom occurred in the sixties, Rulfo and Guimaraes Rosa were there, but they never garnered the
acclaim that Borges had. And I mention Borges in particular because Borges was, as Rulfo and
Guimaraes Rosa, older. They were not up-and-coming like Vargas Llosa, Fuentes, Garcia Marquez,
and Cortazar. They were older writers in Latin America who took advantage of the boom, and
Borges was especially successful. There are many reasons for this, but I think a major one has to do
with translation. And this has nothing to do with any kind of assessment of the quality of the work,
but it is clear, at least to me, that Borges's works were more easily translatable than Rulfo's or those
of Guimaraes Rosa. For example, Hemingway was translated very well into Portuguese and Spanish
right there and then, whereas Faulkner's work was horribly translated, because it was really hard
for a translator to master English enough to really understand Faulkner, and then translate him to
Portuguese or Spanish.

Translation

PM: Translating Rulfo and Guimaraes Rosa, there is a real level of difficulty. It is really tough. You
have to make choices. It's complicated. You have all of these cultural references and obviously
you're going to have to come up with multiple solutions for translation. They're harder to translate.
Anyone who wants to criticize the English translation of Grande Sertao: Veredas...you have to admit:
it is a difficult work to translate. You're working with oral culture, playing with syntax, word
formation, and if you're translating Grande Sertao: Veredas, you have to get out of your comfort zone.
It can't be straight, plain English. You have to do something like Treece did in "The Jaguar". He
made a decision and stuck with it, and it's good! Think about Faulkner, and his southern accents.
Now try to translate that into Portuguese. What do you do with that accent? Do you pick a place in
Brazil that sounds something like "southern" to Brazilians? What do you do with that? You have to
do something with it; it's a good part of what Faulkner is! If you turn him into some sort of
standard English, you're spoiling half the fun of reading Faulkner.

FM: How have translators in Brazil dealt with that?

PM: That's a tough question to answer. I think different books of Faulkner present their own
challenges. Like if you take The Sound & The Fury, for example. If you compare it to Absalom!
Absalom!, or Light in August, or even As I Lay Dying, it is less marked. It is less Southern. I mean, it's
very Southern, but it's less Southern when you compare it to Absalom! Absalom!—for the translator to
work with. In the sense that there is a kind of written language in the South that belongs to the
educated class, and it has a certain mark. But it's different from the mark of illiterate people in the
South. Then you have another kind of Southern English, that of the former slave. Faulkner works

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with all these variations of English. I can tell you it would be very easy for me, someone who has
read The Sound & The Fury in English, to take The Sound & The Fury, as it's been translated by Paulo
Henriques Britto, who is a great poet and a great translator, and to break into pieces and criticize
it...well, could I do better? [laugh] I don't think so.

When I originally wrote my book, William Faulkner, Joao Guimaraes Rosa, and Juan Rulfo, it was in the
form of my dissertation, and I wrote it in English. When I got the chance to publish it in Brazil, in
book form, I had to translate it into Portuguese. I did it myself. And one of the reasons I translated it
myself was because...in English, I don't have to tell you where Mississippi is; I don't need to
explain that the Mississippi River is different from Mississippi, the state. And in America, even if
you're not very knowledgeable about Southern culture in the U.S., you probably know enough to
get started. When I translated it into Portuguese, I had to slow down and explain certain things that
might be considered obvious in English. It's the same thing on the side of Guimaraes Rosa and the
region. In English it's great to read about Minas Gerais, but in Portuguese it's kind of obvious.
Nobody here needs to be told where Minas Gerais is. Everybody knows where Minas Gerais is, and
everybody knows that there was a gold rush in Minas Gerais in the eighteenth century. These are
things I can assume my Portuguese-reader knows. I think the translator of Guimaraes Rosa or
Faulkner, has to deal with this too. Moments where you have to be a bit explanatory, and other
moments where you just have to let it go. These are tough choices. I think that if you were to get ten,
top-notch translators, and ask them to work on Guimaraes Rosa independently, on the first fifty
pages of Grande Sertao: Veredas, you would get ten very, very different solutions. And it would be
extremely hard for me to say which is the best or which is the second- or third-best. It's easy to tell a
terrible translation from a good translation. It's extremely hard to tell, between two good
translations, which one is best. Maybe one will handle some things better, and the other, other
things better, but both can be good. Can there be one translation that combines what each does
well? Maybe not.

FM: Right, because perhaps one sacrifices something that is key to the success of the other, and vice
versa.

PM: Exactly. Can you not sacrifice anything? I don't think so.

FM: Translation denotes change.

PM: Right. If you didn't sacrifice anything at all, I don't know that what you would end up with
could be better. And that's the problem I think we encounter when someone translates Guimaraes
Rosa into English. They need to be fluent in English, know it inside and out, and at the same time,
have an intimate knowledge of Portuguese and Brazil, or work with someone from Brazil.

FM: Have you ever met Dr. Treece?

PM: No, I haven't yet.

FM: Well, he's from the U.K., but he has strong ties to Brazil. I believe he speaks Portuguese almost

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as well, if not just as well, as he speaks English; and not only that, he has connections with special
resources like the Arquivo Guimaraes Rosa (http://www.ieb.usp.br/guia-ieb/detalhe/125') at the
University of Sao Paulo.

PM: Yes, exactly. This is the kind of experience and teamwork I'm talking about. Because if there's
one thing I hear from Brazilians it's: "oh, you know, you're going to mess this up", or "that up"; or:
"you're never going to be able to translate THIS little feature or detail of Grande Sertao: Veredas"...—I
have to go back to the example of adaptations. Say you're going to adapt Shakespeare, and you have
three forms of building a relationship with the Shakespeare you're going to adapt. One) you think of
yourself as very, very small, and you think of Shakespeare as this humongous idol, and you become
too respectful. Maybe you're very neat, and tight, and faithful in your adaptation, and you end up
with a film that is really not all that interesting, or a film that is just OK. Which is fine, but if you
make an OK film adaptation of Hamlet, which is an absolutely fantastic play, your adaptation cannot
be called a success. Two) you think of yourself as BIGGER, and you feel you can have any freedom
to do anything you want to do, and you run a lot of risks. Unless you're a kind of genius, you're
going to mess up and produce something really bad. The ideal form is the third one: 3) is to prepare
yourself to look at the work you're adapting or translating, in this case Shakespeare, with respect,
but not too much respect. You have to look him in the eye. If there's too much respect, you start
being too careful with things, wanting to ensure you don't "mess" with things, that you don't leave
anything out, and the final product is not as good as it should be.

FM: The approach is especially important when the work you're translating is so wild to begin with.
Looking back, it probably definitely would have been a huge mistake for Harriet de Oms and Taylor
to attempt a 1-for-l translation of Grande Sertao: Veredas. Just a mess. Like professor Piers Armstrong
has been sure to point out: Harriet de Om's was a very accomplished translator, and The Devil to Pay
in the Backlands was not indicative of inability, but rather the result of an adopted strategy.

PM: The issue here is you have to end up with a great book in the end. A book you read in English
and say "wow, what a great book," just as someone who reads it in Portuguese would read it and
say "wow, what a great book." If you look at the history of Grande Sertao: Veredas in Portuguese, you
will find that the reception of the work has been less neat than many people think. In the beginning
a lot of people disliked Grande Sertao: Veredas...a lot. A lot of people thought Grande Sertao: Veredas
was too complicated, too hermetic, was just...crazy. Too crazy. Too difficult. People thought it was
an elitist book, because they thought it to be a book that could only be understood by a reader with a
certain level of erudition. And this is something we face. We have to face the fact that if you give The
Sound and the Fury to a native English-speaker, but one who doesn't really read a lot, it's going to be
very tough! But if you're someone who has been reading, maybe you read a lot in high school and
went to college and trained yourself as a reader...well, it's still not going to be easy, but your
chances of enjoying it will be much greater. It's the same with Grande Sertao: Veredas. It's not a book
just anyone, especially someone who isn't a strong reader, can enjoy—in any language. I think if you
look at the history of the translators in other language versions of Grande Sertao: Veredas, you will
find they don't agree with each other. Like in the case of the Spanish, for example, which was
recently retranslated and published in Argentina: the new translators criticized the first Spanish

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translator. Angel Crespo, quite a bit. But I don't know. I read parts of both translations, and I think
they're both good. They really thought Crespo's version was bad, but I think this is an exaggeration.
As far as The Devil to Pay in the Backlands, look: I used The Devil to Pay in the Backlands in my class. I
asked my students to read it. I said to myself: 'Ok, it's not the ideal translation, ok, there are
problems there, BUT the book is there—actually it wasn't easy to get. I had to contact the publishers
to let me use it—and I think my students would be better off reading it in that translation than never
reading it at all. Am I going to re-imagine and retell them what Grande Sertao: Veredas is? Am I
going to just give them the story in a nutshell? Of course not! The experience would be much, much
worse than reading The Devil to Pay in the Backlands. The Devil to Pay in the Backlands is a valuable
book in that it is the closest English-readers can come to reading Grande Sertao: Veredas. That is...
until we get a new translation.

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Tagged Conversation. Faulkner. Moreira. Rulfo. Yale

2 thoughts on "A Conversation with Dr. Paulo IVIoreira"

dancewithyou says:
February 7. 2012 at 12:36 am
Felipe, I simply loved the interview. I didn't know Professor Paulo Moreira's work, but I will
definitely look for his book, I'm sure it will be of great help to my study process of Rosa's work.
I was in the US for a while, but things were so hasty and crazy I had no time to contact you. I
owe you a book, I haven't forgotten. Promise I will send you as soon as I find an affordable copy.
:) Let's skype some time!

Reply
Laura says:

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A Conversation with Dr. Paulo Moreira | On The Devil To Pay In The Backlands, or Grande Sertao: Veredas 12/5/13 1:11 PM

April 30. 2012 at 3:18 am

Thanks for this interview. It was full of interesting comments, comparisons and reflections that
helped me plan a class on a short story of GR.

Reply

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Notícias da UFMG - Livro da Editora UFMG relaciona obras d... https://www.ufmg.br/online/arquivos/027264.shtml

Livro da Editora UFMG relaciona obras de Faulkner, Guimarães Rosa e

Rulfo
sexta-feira, 8 de fevereiro de 2013, às 5h53

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A Editora UFMG acaba de lançar o livro Modernismo localista das

Américas: os contos de Faulkner, Guimarães Rosa e Rulfo, de Paulo
Moreira. A obra articula, numa perspectiva comparativa, as noções de
conto, localismo e estética narrativa moderna, ao examinar as obras do
americano William Faulkner, do brasileiro Guimarães Rosa e do mexicano
Juan Rulfo.

Paulo Moreira aborda de forma minuciosa 15 histórias que compõem uma

antologia imaginária, e reflete sobre como os autores, considerados
decisivos da literatura das Américas, contribuíram para o desenvolvimento
da narrativa no século 20.

O livro aponta três eixos centrais que aproximam os autores: a narrativa

curta, o localismo e a estética narrativa moderna. Segundo Paulo Moreira, praticamente todas as obras
de Faulkner, Guimarães e Rulfo se ocupam de áreas rurais à margem dos centros locais e nacionais. O
autor ressalta também que a estética narrativa moderna, desenvolvida a partir do fim do século 19, é
explorada pelos três com grande senso de independência criativa.

Sobre o autor
Doutor em Literatura Comparada pela Universidade da Califórnia e professor do Departamento de
Espanhol e Português da Universidade de Yale, Paulo Moreira publicou diversos artigos e resenhas
sobre literatura e cinema contemporâneos, relações culturais entre Brasil e México, poesia, literatura
afro-brasileira e traduziu contos de Faulkner para o português.

(Com assessoria de imprensa da Editora UFMG)

1 of 1 12/5/13 11:07 AM
Boletim da UFMG https://www.ufmg.br/boletim/bol1810/7.shtml

Busca no site da UFMG

Procurar

Contos em coletânea imaginária

Nº 1810 - Ano 39
4.3.2013 “Modernismo localista” de William Faulkner, Guimarães Rosa e Juan
Rulfo é analisado em livro de pesquisador da Universidade de Yale
publicado pela Editora UFMG
Capa
Sobre a inteligência
Rede isolada
Ritual de passagem
Removedoras de
arsênio
Acontece
Contos em coletânea
imaginária
Expediente
Edições Anteriores

Faulkner, Rosa e Rulfo: muito além da nostalgia do meio rural

Itamar Rigueira Jr.

“T rês autores que estão entre os maiores, que vieram de meios

rurais pobres, acanhados, e que escreveram obsessivamente
sobre essas regiões da infância. Investigaram amorosamente
essas regiões por toda a vida, e as interpretaram inventivamente”.
Assim, o pesquisador Paulo Moreira define os escritores que analisa no
livro Modernismo localista das Américas – Os contos de Faulkner,
Guimarães Rosa e Rulfo, recém-publicado pela Editora UFMG.

Para seu empreendimento, Paulo Moreira, que lecionou e continua

pesquisando em ano sabático na Universidade de Yale, nos Estados
Unidos, organizou uma coletânea imaginária de 15 contos, dividida entre
o americano William Faulkner, o brasileiro Guimarães Rosa e o mexicano
Juan Rulfo.

“Contra a tendência da leitura de um conto como unidade isolada,

proponho que uma análise crítica de um livro de contos leve em
consideração os contrastes e sintonias que cada texto estabelece com
seus companheiros de livro, o que oferece ao leitor a renovação de suas
expectativas”, explica o autor.

Paulo Moreira então resolveu perguntar-se por que se limitar aos livros
que existem e não inventar outros, considerados inviáveis pelo mercado
editorial. “Foi o que fiz nesse meu livro: imaginei uma coletânea com
cinco contos de cada autor, intercalados em cinco trios, cada conto lido
na sua língua original”, diz Moreira. “Um livro trilíngue de três autores,
impossível na biblioteca ou na livraria, mas não na minha cabeça ou na
de qualquer leitor.”

Nem arcaico nem bucólico

Quando fala em “interpretação inventiva”, Paulo Moreira quer dizer que
Faulkner, Rosa e Rulfo souberam absorver as lições do que ele chama de
modernismo no seu sentido mais amplo, que acontece entre 1890 e
1960, “em várias partes do mundo, em ondas sucessivas”. “Os três

1 of 2 12/5/13 11:06 AM
Boletim da UFMG https://www.ufmg.br/boletim/bol1810/7.shtml

aproveitaram o que esse modernismo tinha para ensinar sobre a

representação artística, não como espelho neutro da realidade, mas
como interpretação renovada, criativa, livre do conceito de fidelidade
como cópia”, afirma o pesquisador.

Para ele, os escritores voltaram os olhos para seus ambientes de origem

e viram neles muito além do que muita gente tem sido capaz, impedida
pela “nostalgia para com o meio rural” que caracteriza a cultura
ocidental. “Em periferias de regiões pobres inseridas em macrorregiões
duplamente periféricas (Minas Gerais, o estado do Mississipi, no Sul dos
Estados Unidos, e o estado mexicano de Jalisco), eles não viram nem o
arcaico atrasado dos progressistas nem o bucólico idealizado pelos
conservadores”, diz Paulo Moreira.

Depois de conhecer Guimarães Rosa na escola, em Belo Horizonte, Paulo

Moreira travou contato com a obra de Faulkner na graduação em Letras
na UFMG e na Universidade da Califórnia, onde fez doutorado em
literatura comparada. Lá mesmo foi apresentado a Juan Rulfo e
mergulhou na cultura e na literatura mexicanas.

Modernismo localista das Américas é também uma defesa veemente da

ideia de que o conto tem limites e possibilidades equivalentes aos do
romance, da poesia ou do ensaio. “Alguns escritores são interessantes
porque não se importam em absoluto com essas demarcações de
fronteiras”, justifica.

“O escritor mexicano Daniel Sada, morto recentemente, um dos maiores

talentos da narrativa latino-americana, me disse que Esses Lopes, do
Guimarães Rosa, contém um romance inteiro em duas páginas e meia! E
é verdade”, afirma Paulo Moreira. Ele revela ainda que centrou sua
análise nos contos também porque esses textos são muito menos
estudados que os romances de Faulkner, Rosa e Rulfo, embora sejam
parte central das obras dos três autores.

“Além disso, me parece que os contos têm papel definidor no tipo de

romance que eles acabaram escrevendo”, completa o pesquisador.

Livro: Modernismo localista das Américas – Os contos de Faulkner,

Guimarães Rosa e Rulfo
De Paulo Moreira / Editora UFMG
344 páginas / R$ 62

2 of 2 12/5/13 11:06 AM
Foco na periferia — CH http://cienciahoje.uol.com.br/revista-ch/sobrecultura/2013/06/fo...

Assine 0800 703 3000 SAC Bate-papo E-mail Notícias Esporte Entretenimento Mulher Shopping BUSCAR

Revista CH / sobreCultura

Foco na periferia
À margem dos centros locais e nacionais, o mundo rural atraiu o olhar simultaneamente crítico e afetivo de William Faulkner, Juan Rulfo e Guimarães Rosa. Esse é o ponto
de partida de obra lançada no Brasil pelo professor Paulo Moreira, da Universidade de Yale, nos Estados Unidos.

Por: Roberto B. de Carvalho, Ciência Hoje/ PR

Publicado em 05/06/2013 | Atualizado em 05/06/2013

Mulher caminha em área rural de Minas Gerais. O mundo ficcional de Guimarães Rosa
se estende de Cordisburgo, no centro do estado, às regiões norte/nordeste, próximas à
Bahia, e noroeste, entrando em Goiás e Tocantins. (foto: Geraldo Humberto)

Os escritores William Faulkner (1897-1962), Juan Rulfo (1917-1986) e João Guimarães Rosa (1908-1967) estão entre os maiores nomes da literatura dos Estados
Unidos, do México e do Brasil, respectivamente. Estudioso dos contos desses autores, o professor Paulo Moreira, do Departamento de Espanhol e Português da
Universidade de Yale (EUA), acaba de publicar, pela editora da Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais (UFMG), a obra Modernismo localista das Américas.

No livro, Moreira – que se graduou em letras na UFMG e fez mestrado e doutorado em literatura comparada na Universidade da Califórnia em
Santa Bárbara (EUA) – articula, em perspectiva comparativa, três pontos que, a seu ver, aproximam a obra daqueles autores: o conto, a estética narrativa moderna e
o localismo (termo que prefere usar no lugar de ‘regionalismo’). “Embora se diga que a narrativa moderna é expressão primordial das metrópoles, quase toda a obra
de Faulkner, Rulfo e Rosa se ocupa de áreas rurais”, diz Moreira.

Nesta entrevista ao sobreCultura +, ele trata desses eixos temáticos de seu livro, da antologia imaginária de contos dos três autores que criou para embasar suas análises
e do quadro atual dos estudos de literatura brasileira nos Estados Unidos.

sobreCultura +: Como nasceu a pesquisa que deu origem ao livro Modernismo localista das Américas? O que há de comum na obra dos
autores estudados?

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Paulo Moreira: Tudo começou nas aulas sobre Faulkner e Rulfo em meu curso de mestrado. Lia esses autores, obviamente, com olhos
brasileiros. Também tive contato com estudos sobre o modernismo em língua inglesa. As discrepâncias na historiografia do período 1890-1950 revelam certos pontos
cegos na visão que cada cultura tem dessa fase. Sobretudo na literatura em língua inglesa, as metrópoles são enfatizadas como centros geradores de um modernismo
eminentemente cosmopolita. Mas então o que Faulkner, Rulfo e Guimarães Rosa, três autores considerados centrais no modernismo (no sentido mais amplo do
termo), fizeram? Usavam a técnica, a forma de observar e escrever desenvolvidas pelo modernismo para tratar de áreas rurais, pobres e periféricas do ponto de vista
econômico e cultural. Isso se tornou um falso problema para vários críticos, que julgavam que áreas periféricas só podiam produzir coisas atrasadas, uma literatura
ultrapassada. O melhor do modernismo em termos de literatura nos Estados Unidos, no México e no Brasil foi construído em obras que se debruçaram com
consistência quase obsessiva sobre essas regiões.

Por que o senhor prefere o termo 'localista' em vez de 'regionalista'?

Não vejo sentido em separar autores que se debruçam sobre o meio rural de outros que se debruçam sobre o meio urbano ou suburbano. O que me interessa é
chegar à definição de uma atitude do escritor em relação ao mundo sobre o qual ele se debruça. Que atitude é essa? É um olhar ao mesmo tempo cirúrgico e afetivo,
que recusa condescendência ou qualquer tipo de sentimento de superioridade que um afastamento crítico poderia suscitar. Escritores urbanos e suburbanos também
se concentram na criação de um mundo ficcional específico que carregue um sentido profundo de verdade. Machado de Assis tem com o Rio de Janeiro uma relação
íntima, citando em seus contos, um atrás do outro, nomes de ruas e datas que vão montando naquela cidade um mundo particular riquíssimo. O quão imerso numa
cidade considerada na época periférica e provinciana como Dublin não está o Ulisses de Joyce? Esse romance seria o que é se a história se passasse em Londres ou
Paris? Woody Allen se relaciona com Nova Iorque ou Mário de Andrade com São Paulo também com esse olhar cirúrgico e afetivo. Daí minha preferência pelo
termo localista.

E a questão da modernidade?

A ideia de que o mundo rural brasileiro era (ou é) “arcaico” é um erro, sobretudo quando se infere que esse
mundo “arcaico” é um mundo mais “simples” do que o mundo urbano. Injusto, sim. Violento, sim. Arcaico, não!
Compartilho da opinião dos estudiosos que, já na década de 1960, falavam da fundação do continente americano sobre bases da propriedade privada e da
exploração do capital mercantil. Em inglês, muitos preferem hoje a expressão early modern para qualificar o século 16, e não é gratuitamente que o adjetivo moderno
aparece aí. Na conclusão do meu livro há uma longa discussão sobre o termo, comumente usado sem muita reflexão sobre seu sentido. A ideia de que o mundo rural
brasileiro era (ou é) “arcaico” é um erro, sobretudo quando se infere que esse mundo “arcaico” é um mundo mais “simples” (o que querem dizer é “simplório”) do
que o mundo urbano. Injusto, sim. Violento, sim. Arcaico, não! O que Rulfo, Faulkner e Rosa fizeram de modo brilhante foi mostrar a complexidade dos conflitos
humanos e os efeitos das sucessivas ondas de modernização capitalista que vão varrendo essas regiões rurais dupla ou triplamente periféricas que eles escolheram
como lugar para criar seu universo literário.

A obra de Faulkner e Rulfo é bem estudada no país de origem desses escritores?

Os centros dos estudos sobre Faulkner e Rulfo estão respectivamente nos Estados Unidos e no México, embora sempre apareçam boas contribuições em outras partes
do mundo. Como no caso da obra de Guimarães Rosa, a obra de Rulfo e a de Faulkner exigem domínio das línguas em que foram escritas e entendimento do
contexto cultural de onde eles vieram e ao qual eles se referem. Sem isso, acontece o que aconteceu até no Brasil quando um crítico respeitado chamou Riobaldo
[personagem de Grande sertão: veredas, de Guimarães Rosa] de “caipira”. Além de uma história complexa, tanto o México como os Estados Unidos têm diferenças
regionais profundas, que vão muito além dos clichês fabricados pela mídia. Assim como um brasileiro sabe que os Pampas e o sertão do Cariri não são o sertão de
Guimarães Rosa, o mexicano sabe que Jalisco não é Chiapas nem Oaxaca nem o norte do México nem Veracruz nem a capital federal. Destaco a atuação incansável
da Fundação Juan Rulfo, criada pela família do escritor para divulgar sua obra no México e fora dele. Esse exemplo de dedicação está acima de mero interesse
financeiro ligado a direitos autorais. O esforço é para promover não só edições e traduções de qualidade, mas também bons estudos sobre o autor e sua obra em todo
o mundo. Vejo com otimismo a produção acadêmica atual sobre esses autores. Como seria de esperar, de cada 10 trabalhos publicados, alguns são ruins, vários dão
contribuição apenas modesta e uns poucos são excelentes. Para termos estes últimos, precisamos dos 10, que representam a existência de uma massa crítica que
estuda e discute as obras.

Como avalia a recepção da obra de Guimarães Rosa nos Estados Unidos? Há boas traduções de livros dele para o inglês?

É necessária nova tradução de Grande sertão: veredas para o inglês. Tarefa que, sabemos, não é simples. E o mundo anglo-saxão anda muito
fechado às literaturas de outros países, sobretudo de autores que morreram há mais de 40 anos. Há contos de Rosa traduzidos no excelente Oxford anthology of the
Brazilian short story, editado em 2006 por David Jackson, e uma pequena coletânea, The jaguar and other stories, traduzida pelo inglês David Treece. Há também um livro
recente, Studies in the literary achievement of João Guimarães Rosa, que reúne vários artigos importantes, em inglês, e um blogue muito bem feito por Felipe Martinez.

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O senhor considera que atualmente há nos Estados Unidos interesse significativo pelo estudo de literatura brasileira?
O interesse tem crescido nos últimos anos, como reflexo do perfil mais saliente do Brasil no cenário global. Hoje há nos Estados Unidos um grupo qualificado de
especialistas em literatura brasileira, que reúne não só brasileiros, mas também pessoas de outras nacionalidades.

A antologia imaginária de contos (dos três autores) que o senhor criou e estuda em seu livro contém 15 narrativas, cinco de cada autor,
intercaladas em cinco trios. Há um ponto de interseção entre as narrativas de cada trio?
Os temas principais são: conflito mediado entre representantes de uma nova onda de modernidade e aqueles que estão entrando em contato com essa modernidade;
formas de confronto possível para o lado mais fraco quando dois lados se encontram em condições muito desiguais; conflito entre saberes e sistemas retóricos
diferentes nesse quadro de instabilidade; violência como forma de legitimação de pessoas e grupos que agem no vácuo do Estado, que se omite ou se ausenta
completamente; figuras que chamo de ‘órfãs de dinheiro’ (mulheres jovens e pobres que lutam em um sistema patriarcal, inseparável da questão de classe, que as
divide entre virgens, mães e prostitutas potenciais).

Rosa, Faulkner e Rulfo: unidos pela paixão de ambientar dramas humanos em áreas
rurais, pobres e periféricas. (fotos: Wikimedia Commons)

O senhor não pretende buscar editor para essa antologia imaginária, que poderia vir acompanhada do estudo feito na primeira parte de
seu livro?
Seria um bom livro para acompanhar o meu, mas não é possível, principalmente se for numa única língua. Não tenho tempo para traduzir os contos que não estão
em português e obter permissão para publicar traduções antigas para tê-lo todo numa língua só. Minha proposta é que o leitor trate os contos que lê como faixas de
um disco, que ele pode rearranjar como quiser numa produção caseira para seu próprio deleite. O mundo editorial está longe de permitir essa flexibilidade. Os
canais independentes existem, mas sofrem com falta de divulgação e distribuição ineficiente. Não conheço bem questões de direitos autorais, mas suponho que
qualquer leitor com acesso a uma biblioteca e com um escâner à mão pode montar o livro de contos que quiser, desde que para seu próprio uso. Nunca se sabe o que
pode acontecer com a apropriação ainda que de pequena parte de uma obra. Recentemente quiseram processar Woody Allen por ter citado Faulkner no filme
Meia-noite em Paris sem autorização. As novas tecnologias oferecem ao leitor a possibilidade de assumir papel mais ativo na seleção do que ler, mas os interesses em
proteger direitos autorais são também muito fortes.

Ao criar sua antologia imaginária, o senhor aponta a possibilidade de haver antologias as mais diferentes com narrativas curtas de um
autor, não?
Não só o conto favorece essa possibilidade; a poesia também. Poderíamos ter antologias de um só autor ou de vários, mesmo de línguas diferentes, ou uma coletânea
de contos sobre animais, de poemas sobre o Rio de Janeiro, de contos sobre a guerra suja nos anos 70, de poemas sobre a morte etc. Com algumas exceções, os livros
de contos surgem a partir de uma seleção cuidadosa e de uma deliberação criteriosa da ordem em que os textos se apresentam. Nesse caso, novas possibilidades de
compreensão do livro tendem a aparecer. Contos e poemas podem ser lidos dentro do contexto de um livro ou sozinhos, como entidades isoladas.

Em seu livro, o senhor se detém sobre o gênero conto. O senhor acha que o conto, por ser uma narrativa curta, costuma ser visto como
gênero menor quando comparado com narrativas mais longas, como a novela e o romance?

O conto não é uma forma mais ou menos fixa que o romance. E não é melhor nem pior. É o que seu autor foi capaz
de fazer com ele
Discuto essa questão em detalhes no livro. A crítica sobre contos cai frequentemente na armadilha da crítica de gênero, pensando em “regras” para escrever o “conto
perfeito” e no conto como exercício formal com um número limitado de elementos. O conto não é uma forma mais ou menos fixa que o romance. E não é melhor
nem pior. É o que seu autor foi capaz de fazer com ele.

O senhor considera que a conceituação tradicional de conto, novela e romance precisa ser revista?
Não creio que o problema seja conceituar em outros termos o conto ou o romance. A teoria é muito importante na medida em que aguça o senso crítico e articula o
discurso. Qualquer teoria formalista normativa, que diz que determinado texto deve ser arranjado necessariamente de um jeito específico para ser considerado
válido como tal, é para mim pura perda de tempo.

O senhor está trabalhando no projeto de algum outro livro?

Estou finalizando o manuscrito de um novo trabalho, que trata das relações entre artistas e intelectuais brasileiros e mexicanos. O título provisório é Deep undercurrents
[Correntes subterrâneas], que se refere à existência de um longo e rico intercâmbio entre indivíduos dos dois países, muito além de qualquer empenho institucional.
Estão em foco críticas de Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz a um sermão do Padre Vieira, textos de Machado de Assis sobre a invasão francesa no México, poemas de
autores mexicanos sobre o Rio de Janeiro, uma sutil homenagem de Guimarães Rosa a Juan Rulfo, a adaptação de contos de Rubem Fonseca para o cinema pelo
cineasta mexicano Paul Leduc e o extraordinário livro de poemas Fiat lux, de Paula Abramo, mexicana filha de exilados brasileiros.

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