08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?

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2.3T CARB UPGRADES?

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05-27-2014, 01:45 PM #1

1982t2.3
2.3t carb upgrades?
New User

Join Date: May 2014 hi guys im new to the forum and recently purchased a 1982 mustang 2.3t (yes 1982 its canadian) it has 70,000kms on
Posts: 5 the clock and has never been winter drivin. its alao manual with a 5 speed and it only cost me 2000$. ive done some
research on four eyed pride and other foruns as well and seem to come across the same answer on all ends, that i
need to swap to efi, change it for a svo engine or a 5.0. but you see im sentimental about these kind of things, i refuse
to remove something as rare as the 2.3t carb engine that was only sold in canada during the 1982 year. so heres the
thing I want to upgrade it. is there anyone who has experience with modifying them? could i upgrade the head ti the
efi type whike retaining the carburator? is there a way to upgrade the turbo? if so what turbo can be used? what about
larger carburators and an aftermarket intake manifold? (from what ive seen non-existsant) but im just looking to make
a bit more hp any help would be appreciated.

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05-27-2014, 06:08 PM #2

mustangxtreme
FEP Super Member

Welcome to FEP. Yes you can modify your 2.3T. If it were me, I'd pull the 2.3t and put it in storage, install a later 2.3T
with an aftermarket intake/carb and boost the hell out of it. That way you can still make the claim it's just a carbureted
2.3.

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Snohomish, Wa
Posts: 4,016

Dave

If common sense was common wouldn't it just be sense?

1983 Capri L T top 5.0 efi aod

1983 Capri RS Turbo
1981 Black Magic 400 c6
93 F-250 351 5sp 4x4

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05-27-2014, 09:16 PM #3

1982t2.3
New User

Join Date: May 2014 Originally Posted by mustangxtreme

Posts: 5 Welcome to FEP. Yes you can modify your 2.3T. If it were me, I'd pull the 2.3t and put it in storage, install a later
2.3T with an aftermarket intake/carb and boost the hell out of it. That way you can still make the claim it's just a
carbureted 2.3.

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08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?
thanks for the warm welcome :-) its a really good idea but ive allways been the person to take a less popular engine
and kinda make it fast. not conpetitive fast but the kind of fast that makes peoole do a double take and ask WTF?!? idk
as crappy as the design was i still want to make it work.

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05-28-2014, 12:14 AM #4

Mustang Marty
FEP Supporter

Welcome. I was interested in doing the same thing to my coupe when I bought it. It had the same engine and I was
looking into boosting the performance without going to EFI. The two biggest issues with these engines are the high
compression ratio (limits the amount of boost) and the draw through turbo/carb design. Having all that heat below the
carb doesn't do it any favors. I had a Gillis valve on mine when I bought it and while I could double the boost to 9-10
lbs, the car ran out of steam pretty quickly.

There has been some success converting the engine to blow through using a later model EFI turbo and exhaust
Join Date: Nov 2004 manifold and small 4 barrel carb (there is a 4 barrel intake available for the 2.3). Instead of the carb sitting on the
turbo, the turbo blows through the top of the carb, similar to have the superchargers and turbos are connected to the
Location: Everett,
Washington, United modern throttle bodies. The smaller IHI turbo from the 87-88 Tbirds tend to work better with the higher compression
States engine since they spool faster and produce less boost overall (although they can still provide more than the engine can
Posts: 2,210 handle). This was the route I was going until a wrecked Turbocoupe landed in my lap for next to nothing.

79 Mustang Coupe - Jade Green Metallic - 5.0 5Sp - Purchased 2006

01 Mustang - True Blue - 3.8 Auto - Purchased 2001
------------------------------------------------------------
85 ASC - McLaren 5.0 SC - ASC White - 5.0 CFI Auto - Owned 2004 - 2016
98 Mustang - White - 3.8 5pd - Owned 1998 - 2001
84 Mustang SSP - White - 5.0 5sp - Owned 1993 - 1998
84 SVO - Charcoal - 2.3t 5Sp - Owned 1989 -1992
79 Mustang Ghia - 5.0 Auto - Owned 1981 - 1986
68 Mustang Coupe - 302 Auto - Owned 1980 - 1981

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05-28-2014, 01:28 AM #5

gr79
FEP Super Member

Welcome and congrads on a nice deal on that rare version of a car.

Had to chime in as to what i learned owning a carb turbo car since 1980.

Also have a stock one, except for upgraded internal parts that have come about over the years.
Join Date: Jun 2009 Tweaked timing and little things. It will go faster than i will dare to go anymore well over 80+ mph.
Location: SE Michigan Daily driver. 300,000+ miles. One engine rebuild at 220,000.
Posts: 3,473
Will always be faster cars. Slower ones too.
If i personally needed a faster car (and have had them) it would be one with bigger engine that is already fast.

Left alone it will last quite long with proper maint and parts.
This engine is fairly sensitive to tune and for sure improper mods.
It is what it is. Just about maxed out from the factory.

A few changes can be done while leaving it basic as intended.

-Cam change. The 'big 2.3 cam' from later SVO, T-Bird. adds +10% hp, tq.
Some suggest Ranger roller cam/valve train pieces. A Ranger header will fit with mods.
-No carb change is needed nor recommended due to tuning issues. Keep it and keep it clean.
-Pistons can be upgraded to skirt coated upon rebuild. Overbore it. Blueprint the engine. ARP bolts.
-Boost can be turned up a few pounds. This is fooling with durability.
-Maybe some minor head/intake cleanup by an expert. Motorcraft ign parts and oil filter.
-A rear gear change to 3.73 if not already there would be ok.
This engine will make 130-175hp without cutting into it.
-Small shot of nitrous?
-Keeping the car lightweight always helps performance.
-Do not jump or rev it high, quickly, until oil and engine is warmed up.
-10w30 is enough. These engines have a lower than normal valve stem seal life.
-Chassis- sub frame and verti bracing. Ford hd rear upper control arms. Ford upgraded lower fronts.
-Larger alternator than a 40a.

I enjoy every time the overall drive ability of the car, fuel econ, yes reliability, and turbo sound, more than how fast it

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08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?
will go.
People at a show appreciate a stock un modded car too.

Preserving these engines as stock is just not what everyone else wants, but i for one don't care.
Sorry. Most that have the itch to mod the hell out of one of these has the wrong car and image of it.
I loved the way the car was on day one and plan to do what i can to keep it that way.

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05-28-2014, 03:50 AM #6

1982t2.3
New User

Join Date: May 2014 wow ive got some good information here, congrats gr79 for such a loyal following and dedication to these rare cars. so
a blow through setup, youve got my attention. so lets say i use the svo turbo for a blow through setup. the next thing
Posts: 5
is what carb do i use exactly and as far as a manifold can i use the 4barrel carb manifold from esslinger?

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05-28-2014, 09:15 AM #7

Chuck W
Moderator

My old '79 Pace Car turbo was modded a bit.

The engine that came in the car had lost a rod bolt (It had be previously "worked". Poorly, I imagine), so I tossed in a
Join Date: Jul 2002 stock 84 SVO longblock I had. I used the Ranger exhaust manifold and the previous owner had wrapped the crossover
pipe to the turbo. The exhaust was a 3" DP to a dual 2-1/2" set-up (Previous owner again. My choice is for a single 3"
Location: Indianapolis, IN
all the way).
Posts: 2,588

Carb was stock, but rebuilt/cleaned. Intake and turbo were stock. Fueling was from later Fox intank feed pump (Low
pressure), so no mechanical FP. Electric rad fan.

Ignition was stock.

I added an adjustable boost controller. A very basic in-car adjustment knob. Nothing fancy. I ran the car at 12# of
boost.

My main issue with it was the drivability, as compared to the EFI 2.3T cars I'd driven. It was very laggy, but it was just
the nature of the beast. You'd push down the throttle to go, and it would start to accelerate, slowly. Then the turbo
would spool up and "BAH-WAHHHH!!" the car would squat and scoot. You had to keep your foot into it pretty heavy to
avoid that ON-OFF transition. The EFI 2.3T stuff was not really any less laggy, when stock, just more smooth.

I never tracked the car, but the guy who bought it from me picked it up and drove it home to Delaware. I hear at
some point that it ran a 14.0 in the quarter with the way it was set up.

Now, as mentioned, this was with the lower-compression SVO engine (8.0:1 vs 9.0:1), but I wouldn't hesitate to run
that same configuration on the stock '79 engine. Just would have to be mindful of detonation. The higher static comp
would keep the car a bit more peppy off-boost. I took that original engine that was in the car and put it back together
and beat the ever-loving snot out of it for years at a 9.0: compression and anywhere from 16-21# of boost (EFIed,
intercooled and non-intercooled). It did eventually die, but again, I was not treating it nice. 11-12# of boost wouldn't
scare me on a stock 2.3T carbed engine.

The only issue with the carbed stuff, is some of the parts are getting hard to find, so you may have to get creative.
The oring seals on the intake, for example. When I sourced them from the dealer in '98, I bought one of the last 4 sets
in the country. I'm sure aftermarket/DIY solutions exist these days, however.

83 TC "Clone"

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05-28-2014, 12:36 PM #8

Mustang Marty
FEP Supporter

For an intake, Offenhauser was one of the companies the made them. Here is a new one on eBay. They also make a
two barrel that has the Holley flange

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08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Offenhauser-...0531bd&vxp=mtr

It is designed for the early oval port heads that were used on the 2.3 until 1982. If you want to use the later D port
heads, then either the head needs to be modified or a lower EFI intake with a carb adapater will need to be used.

A Holley 390 CFM is the reccomended setup. The Holley two barrel 350 CFM has been used succesfully, but there is
Join Date: Nov 2004 more information about modding and tuning the 4bbl for turbo applications than the 2bbl. You want are nitrophyl
floats installed in either case as the brass floats will collapse under boost. To top it off you will need a carb hat.
Location: Everett,
Washington, United Vortech makes a good one for their superchargers. http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...n.php?pvk=4581. These
States are supposed to flow better and cause less turbulence than the 90 degree elbows.
Posts: 2,210

If you do decide to make these mods to your car, for the love of god, keep all the parts you take off. Nearly all of the
unique parts for the engine (such as intake, turbo, ignition, and vacuum systems) have not been available for decades.
If you ever want to restore the car the only source of parts will be what you have kept from it. Even if you don't plan
on restoring the car, the parts could help out someone who is.

79 Mustang Coupe - Jade Green Metallic - 5.0 5Sp - Purchased 2006

01 Mustang - True Blue - 3.8 Auto - Purchased 2001
------------------------------------------------------------
85 ASC - McLaren 5.0 SC - ASC White - 5.0 CFI Auto - Owned 2004 - 2016
98 Mustang - White - 3.8 5pd - Owned 1998 - 2001
84 Mustang SSP - White - 5.0 5sp - Owned 1993 - 1998
84 SVO - Charcoal - 2.3t 5Sp - Owned 1989 -1992
79 Mustang Ghia - 5.0 Auto - Owned 1981 - 1986
68 Mustang Coupe - 302 Auto - Owned 1980 - 1981

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05-28-2014, 01:37 PM #9

gr79
FEP Super Member

There was one Holley carb that i would have liked to try out mentioned in above post.
Was not aware of it at the time. Now, long out of production.
Holley model 2305 staged 2 bbl, like the 5200 carb, only larger.
Based on 2300 series. List 0-80120 350 cfm and 0-80095 500 cfm.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SE Michigan The Helm Ford shop manuals are a good accurate, if not the only, source of info for these cars.
Posts: 3,473 Without the option of an intercooler, added boost is more touchy of a subject.
Octane, head gasket limit.

Really do not notice any real lag or bog. Boost can start under 2000 rpm under certain conditions.
Have removed the carb choke flaps. Car never started any better with a choke setup.

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05-28-2014, 03:21 PM #10

KevinD
FEP User

I have a 0-80120 and I couldn't get the huge stumble out of it no matter what I tried. Maybe that is why they are long
out of production.

Join Date: Mar 2013

Location: Hamilton, OH
Posts: 54

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05-29-2014, 02:02 AM #11

gr79
FEP Super Member

Yah carb calibration is very time consuming. On top of finely tuning the engine.
Jets, pump shot, bleeds, revised engine vacuum connection locations.

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08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?

Join Date: Jun 2009 Getting correct A/F ratios thru the power band, boosted and not, by mechanical means.
Location: SE Michigan
On a turbo engine, would start with some jets close to oem and work from there.
Posts: 3,473 On that Holley 5200 reman i got one time, the jets were way too small.
Car ran flat and was a dog.
Jets were around number 225. Stock 5200 turbo is 259-283.
Thing is Holley and Weber use a different jet size numbering system.
Books say to drill size match the holes if no other way.

Then the situation with incorrect vac connections. Not much data to go from.
Its a guess, hit or miss.
Have went from no idle, bog, to nice mileage with power playing with vac connections.

Or a aftermarket throttle body type kit instead of carb.

Electronic fuel metering. 2.3 turbo EFI popular because this is done already.

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06-07-2014, 05:31 AM #12

xctasy
FEP Super Member

Its very important to know the answer is Yes to performance upgrades to the 2.3 Carb Turbo A code.

See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...68#post1650568

Join Date: Jun 2012 The jetting issues for the Holley Weber 5200 series carb are simple...the interchange is as follows. Its a handed,
Location: Dunedin 9011, New reverse image 32/36 Weber carb, so uses the European jets, not the Holley 1, 2 and 4 bbl items
Zealand, South
Pacific
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.p...511834#p511834
Posts: 2,892

Originally Posted by xctasy

Originally Posted by powerband

On a fairly high CR 170, I used a generic 4cyl 5200 with all ranges of jetting with little improvement
from the 1bbl until finding a 2800 V6 application H/W 5200 version. On the 170 six it improved
performance and mileage dramatically . I can't account for differences even swapping same jetting
between carb bodies ... But as mentioned it is easy and fun to get the secondaries workin'.

That's because the emulsion tube is different. Remember, the 32/36 saw duty on 78 to 171 cube Ford engines
from the 87 hp 1.6 liter SOHC Pinto engine found in European Cortinas, Capris and Sierras, to the US 2600 and
2800 Cologne V6's in the Capri, Bronco II, Areostar. I think the ill fated 1978 to 1980 1600 Kent engined Fiesta
ran one for the US market. Both the Weber and Holley Webers use F2 to F78 trim emulsion #61440 tubes, the
F50 primary, F6 sec for water or electric choke, F50/F50 for earlier manual choke , but some used for the 171
cube/2800 cc Cologne V6 had F2's in the secondary, and there are other differences to air bleeds. Emission gear
forced Ford to adopt different jetting depending if it was Austria, Australia, California or Illonis :wink: . The
numbers are just list numbers, but generally, the higher the number, the less the emulsification, the smaller the
holes. Low numbers suit bigger engines, generally. Here are the F1 to F20's,with an F8 below. The ink pictures
are for #61450 series carbs, but you get the general idea.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/...b044c46a_z.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/...1079fa40_z.jpg

From swatson454 on speed talk, there are pictures of the normal #61440 series F50, then an F6, an F7, and then
a custom moded F7 item. Lastly, some common 32/36 Emulsion tubes from uptillnow

Easy replacements that will fit the 32/36 are F3, 5, 6, 7, 24, 25, 26, 50, 66 and 78. F2's are not commonly
available but have been used in 2.8 2-bbl's , while F6's and F66's are other common replacements.

Some Holley Weber 5200 and Weber 32/36 carbs have only a primary idle system, while others have both primary
and secondary idle system. These 3 things totally change the make up of any 32/36 or 5200 carb. Every year,
there were major changes to carb calibration, and running changes as well. Always without notice...

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08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?

Originally Posted by powerband

Main Jet Conversions
Green Jets Brass Jets Green Jets Brass Jets
124-227 22R-103-130 124-325 22R-103-150
124-239 22R-103-132 124-346 22R-103-155
124-243 22R-103-133 124-357 22R-103-157
124-255 22R-103-135 124-374 22R-103-160
124-263 22R-103-137 124-404 22R-103-165
124-275 22R-103-140 124-423 22R-103-170
124-283 22R-103-142 124-455 22R-103-175
124-299 22R-103-145 124-477 22R-103-180
124-311 22R-103-147 124-524 22R-103-185

The above are close limit jets

Or the chart that shows all them plotted. Disregards the units. The chart should read 150 microns is 1.5 mm

And specifically:The earlier standard jet sizes for Holley Webers are:-

103 cc/min=105 microns, or 41.34 thou

128 cc/min=110 microns, or 43.31 thou
152 cc/min=115 microns, or 45.28 thou
178 cc/min=120 microns, or 47.24 thou
201 cc/min=125 microns, or 49.21 thou
225 cc/min=130 microns, or 51.18 thou
251 cc/min=135 microns, or 53.15 thou
275 cc/min=140 microns, or 55.12 thou
298 cc/min=145 microns, or 57.09 thou
325 cc/min=150 microns, or 59.06 thou
346 cc/min=155 microns, or 61.02 thou
375 cc/min=160 microns, or 62.99 thou
400 cc/min=165 microns, or 64.96 thou
425 cc/min=170 microns, or 66.93 thou
450 cc/min=175 microns, or 68.90 thou
475 cc/min=180 microns, or 70.87 thou
525 cc/min=185 microns, or 72.83 thou

Last edited by xctasy; 03-21-2017 at 07:26 PM. Reason: The chart should read 150 microns is 1.5 mm

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6V i6's @ http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10 ; AWD i6's @ http://www.apetracing.co.nz/
113 mph 84 5.0 at Amaroo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTezv3Pzdls&t=8s

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08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?
Techno KCM Loop Out: Severed Heads 1K Angles 1985 https://vimeo.com/45357552 33 years since The Gordons
Machine Song c 1980 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUVRawkTixE

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06-07-2014, 05:37 AM #13

xctasy
FEP Super Member

Redrilling isn't the favored option. There are lots of Holley Weber jets around, and here is powerbands cover off of the
three different types of coding I alludd to above. Its a great help.

Originally Posted by powerband

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dunedin 9011, New Where did you get a 477 jet?
Zealand, South
Pacific
Green Jets Brass Jets
Posts: 2,892
124-477 22R-103-180
From unverified source:::

Holley 5200 Jets:

Contrary to popular belief standard Holley jets do NOT fit the Holley 5200 because it is based off of
the weber 32/36. The first couple of years the Holley 5200 was made jets for these carburetors
where made in the U.S. and stamped with a diameter for the size of the jet. These jets where
numbered with the 22R-103-xxx numbers shown in the table below where the xxx would be the
diameter of the jet opening in millimeters. Only the last 3 numbers are stamped on the jet so a 157
size jet would have a 1.57 mm hole. These older jets are supposidly brass colored and newer jets
where suppose to have a green coating.

In 1975 jets started to be labeled according to the flow of the jet. This means that the exact size no
longer was of concern. Each jet is individually flowed at a constant vacuum of 50 centimeters
(probably using water). This would mean that two jets of the same size are now gauranteed to flow
the same where as before one could flow more than the other. These jets are suppose to be colored
green an the number dictates its flow so a 423 jet would flow 423 cc of fluid at a constant pressure
drop of 50 centimeters.

Carburetor jets should not be drilled or modified in any way as shape affects flow as well as the
opening size. Therefor you cannot know how much fuel and how effective a jet delivers fuel after it
has been modified unless you test it on a flow stand.

Below is a chart of the new and old Holley 5200 jets according to flow thus a 124-311 green jet
would have close to the same flow as a 22R-103-147 jet. Note that not all available jets may be
listed as they might not flow an equivlant volume between old and new jets.

Main Jet Conversions

Green Jets Brass Jets Green Jets Brass Jets
124-227 22R-103-130 124-325 22R-103-150
124-239 22R-103-132 124-346 22R-103-155
124-243 22R-103-133 124-357 22R-103-157
124-255 22R-103-135 124-374 22R-103-160
124-263 22R-103-137 124-404 22R-103-165
124-275 22R-103-140 124-423 22R-103-170
124-283 22R-103-142 124-455 22R-103-175
124-299 22R-103-145 124-477 22R-103-180
124-311 22R-103-147 124-524 22R-103-185

The three types rearranged.

As is said, Stock 5200 turbo is 259-283.

The Common Turbo Close Limit Green jet is a later addition to the US Holley Weber inventory, and isn't included
because I have no data for it

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08/11/2018 2.3t carb upgrades?

Stock 5200 turbo is 259-283, but 259 cc/minute, which should be a 136 micron jet, is not listed

Last edited by xctasy; 06-07-2014 at 06:08 AM.

About Respect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bk9WG8KWW0

X's Album http://vb.foureyedpride.com/album.php?albumid=2922
Oz JPS Stang http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/Hist...cecars/jps.htm
4V (A)US Race V8's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqk18A-ibjA
ITZOLD 81 Fox http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-fun-and-games
6V i6's @ http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10 ; AWD i6's @ http://www.apetracing.co.nz/
113 mph 84 5.0 at Amaroo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTezv3Pzdls&t=8s
Techno KCM Loop Out: Severed Heads 1K Angles 1985 https://vimeo.com/45357552 33 years since The Gordons
Machine Song c 1980 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUVRawkTixE

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