2/9/2019
1b
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2016/04/let-study-quran-speak-pt-1b.html
2 captures
24 Apr 2016 - 21 Aug 2016
ABOUT
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Reformed Apologetics Ministries: Let The Study Quran Speak! Pt.
Go APR AUG SEP 👤 ⍰❎
21 f 🐦
2015 2016 2017 ▾ About this capture
Thursday, April 14, 2016
Let The Study Quran Speak! Pt. 1b
Do Christians Believe Allah is really Jesus?
By Sam Shamoun
There are two passages where the Quran censures Christians for believing that Allah is the Messiah:
Surely, in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary). Say (O
Muhammad): "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of
Maryam (Mary), his mother, and all those who are on the earth together?" And to Allah belongs the
dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills. And
Allah is Able to do all things. S. 5:17 Hilali-Khan
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O
Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah,
for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. S.
5:72 Pickthall
The problem with this assertion is that no informed Christian believes this, since historically Christianity has
never taught that God is the Messiah. Rather, the orthodox historic position has been that the Messiah is God,
not the other way around. Here are a few citations from some of Christianity’s foremost theologians and
philosophers to confirm this fact:
Third, to distinguish between person and nature, we must keep in mind two ways to use “is”–
identity versus predication. Mark Twain is the pen name for Samuel Langhorne Clemens, the 26-
cigars-a-day smoker and author of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. Twain does not have
characteristics that Clemens does not have. In other words, when we say, “Samuel Langhorne
Clemens is Mark Twain,” we can just as easily reverse the names: “Mark Twain is Samuel
Langhorne Clemens.” Each of those statements indicates identity: Mark Twain = Samuel
Langhorne Clemens (and vice versa). The names, which refer to the same person, are fully
interchangeable and thus identical.
When it comes to the Trinity, to say “Jesus is God” isn’t identical to “God is Jesus.” Unlike
the Mark Twain example, “Jesus” doesn’t exhaust what it means to speak of “God.” Jesus and
God are not identical. According to the Bible, Father and the Spirit are called divine, just as
Jesus. In the statement “Jesus is God,” we use is to describe or predicate, not to identify or
equate: Jesus is God in that He shares in the nature that only two other persons share; so there
isn’t just one person who can properly be called God. (Paul Copan, “Is The Trinity A Logical
Blunder? God As Three And One”, in Contending With Christianity’s Critics: Answering New
Atheists & Other Objectors, ed. Paul Copan & William Lane Craig [B&H Publishing Group,
2009], Part Three. The Coherence of Christian Doctrine, p. 212; bold emphasis ours)
And:
“… The second way is to qualify the affirmation ‘Jesus is God’ by observing that this is a
nonreciprocating proposition. While Jesus is God, it is not true that God is Jesus. There are
others of whom the predicate ‘God’ may be rightfully used. The person we call Jesus does not
exhaust the category of Deity.” (Murray J. Harris, Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos
in Reference to Jesus [Baker Book House, Grand Rapids MI, Paperback edition 1998], XIII.
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- Josephus and Tacitus on Christ:
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2016/04/let-study-quran-speak-pt-1b.html
2 captures
An Analysis
- Adolf Hitler was not a Christian
24 Apr 2016 - 21 Aug 2016
- Refuting the Lie John Invented
Sayings of Jesus
- Shabir Ally & Raymond
Brown’s Redaction Criticism of
John
- Answering Muslims: Is Jesus a
Son Among Tons?
- Refuting Bart Ehrman’s
“Passion Contradictions”
Muslims Parrot
- How Salvation Works: Plain
and Simple
- Catholic Idol Worshiper's Big
Justification Lie
- Jesus Sent for Jews Only?:
Answering Muslims
- Old Testament Genocide?:
Answering "Atheists"
- The Bible and Slavery:
Answering "Atheists"
- Absurdities of Youtube Atheist
"CultofDusty"
- Absurdities of Youtube Atheist
“Thunderf00t”
- Absurdities of Youtube Atheist
"AronRa"
- 20 Reasons to Never Join Islam
- The Bible Teaches Original Sin
- Whalid Shoebat’s Son’s
“Christian Militancy” Teaching
Refuted
- Proof Virgin Mary is not the Ark
of the Covenant
-Brief Explanation of Calvinism
- Jeffrey Daugherty's "Apostle
Paul Antichrist" Theory
Debunked
- Refutation of Heretic Jesse
Morrell's Documentary "Beyond
Augustine" part 1, 2
- Myth of Imputed Righteousness
of Christ? Answering Heretic
Jesse Morrell
- A Biblical Case for
Determinism: God's sovereignty
over all (Chris Gautreau)
- Defending Reformed View of
John 6 - Refuting Heretic
Kerrigan Skelly
- Was Judas Once a Saved True
Believer? - Refuting Heretic
Kerrigan Skelly
- Theory on the Origins of Papal
Infallibility
-Answers to Theological
Questions Posed by YouTube
Subscribers - part 1, 2, 3
DEBATES & DISCUSSIONS
- Is Muhammad Predicted in the
Bible? (Keith Thompson vs.
Inamullah Mumtaz)
- Is Papal Primacy Primitive?
(Keith Thompson vs. Catholic
Minister)
- Is the Roman Catholic Papacy
Biblical and Historical? (Keith
Thompson vs. Roman Catholic)
- Papal Primacy and Canon
Debate (Keith Thompson vs.
Catholic)
- Catholic Apologist Admits he
can't Historically Prove Peter
was First Roman Bishop & More
(Keith Thompson vs. Fidei
Defensor SPQR)
- Is Justification by Faith Alone?
(Keith Thompson vs. Catholic
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Reformed Apologetics Ministries: Let The Study Quran Speak! Pt. 1b
Conclusions: Theosas a Christological Title, K. “Jesus is God” asGo
a Theological
APR AUG Formulation
SEP in👤 ⍰❎
English, p. 297; bold emphasis ours) 21 f 🐦
2015 2016 2017 ▾ About this capture
Again:
“To recognize that the godhood of the Son is indistinguishable from the godhood of the Father is
not, of course, to jeopardize the personal distinction between Son and Father. Jesus is totus deus
but not totum dei. He is all that God is without being all there is of God. There is a numerical
unity of essence but not a numerical identity of person. Although Jesus shares the divine essence
fully and personally, he does not exhaust the category of Deity of the being of God. To use the
distinction made in the Johannine Prologue, ho logos was theos (1:1c) but ho theos was not
ho logos (cf. 1:1b). (Ibid., J. The Significance of the Christological Use of Theos, 2. Theos is a
Christological Title That Explicitly Affirms the Deity of Christ, p. 293; bold emphasis ours)
Harris goes on to say:
“Once again the other two deities are said to be Jesus and Mary. The veneration of Mary has been
a major article of Roman Catholic belief and the Ethiopian Church, in particular, has historically
revered her as the mother of God. It seems, however, that their excesses and confusion have only
resulted in the Qur’an compounding the confusion! No Christian Church, no matter how much
it reveres or glorifies Mary as, for example, the Queen of Heaven, has ever confused the Trinity or
made it out to be what the Qur’an represents it to be.” (Ibid.; bold emphasis ours)
And this is what Harris states elsewhere:
Can we, therefore, say that the New Testament teaches that Jesus is "God"? Yes indeed, provided
we constantly bear in mind several factors.
First, to say that "Jesus is God" is true to the New Testament thought, but it goes beyond actual
New Testament diction. The nearest comparable statements are "the Word was God" (John 1:1),
"the Only Son, who is God" (John 1:18), and "the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed forever"
(Rom. 9:5). So we must remember that the theological proposition "Jesus is God" is an inference
from the New Testament evidence – a necessary and true inference, but nonetheless an inference.
Second, if we make the statement "Jesus is God" without qualification, we are in danger of failing
to do justice to the whole truth about Jesus – that he was the incarnate Word, a human being, and
that in his present existence in heaven he retains his humanity, although now it is in a glorified
form. Jesus is not simply "man" nor only "God," but the God-man.
Third, given English usage of the word God, the simple affirmation "Jesus is God" may be easily
misinterpreted. In common English usage God is a proper name, identifying a particular
person, not a common noun designating a class. For us God is the God of the Judeo-Christian
monotheistic tradition, or God the Father of Jesus and of the Christian, or the trinitarian
Godhead. So when we make the equation in English, "Jesus is God," we are in danger of
suggesting that these two terms, "Jesus" and "God," are interchangeable, that there is a numerical
identity between the two. But while Jesus is God, it is not true that God is Jesus. There are
others – the Father and the Spirit – of whom the predicate God may be rightfully used. Jesus
is all that God is, without being all there is of God. The person of Jesus does not exhaust the
category of deity. So then, when we say, "Jesus is God," we must recognize that we are
attaching a meaning to the term God – namely, "God in essence" or "God by nature" – that
is not its predominate sense in English. (Harris, 3 Crucial Questions About Jesus [Baker Books;
Grand Rapids, MI 1994], pp. 101-102; bold emphasis ours)
Nor is this a modern criticism which just recently sprung up. Christians have been objecting to this
incorrect formulation of their beliefs long before Muhammad was born, as even noted by Muslim author
Neal Robinson who, in referring to an ancient Nestorian Christian reference, writes that:
“… The text which dates from around 550 CE. concludes a discussion of the Trinity with the
words ‘The Messiah is God but God is not the Messiah’. The Qur'an echoes ONLY the latter
half of the statement. C. Schedl, Muhammad and Jesus (Vienna: Herder, 1978), p. 531.” (Neal
Robinson, Christ In Islam and Christianity [State University of New York Press, Albany 1991], p.
197; bold and capital emphasis mine)
And here is another source which records the reaction of Christians to the Quran’s gross
misrepresentation of their beliefs in the early centuries of Islam, specifically the late tenth century AD:
‘Abd al-Jabbar focuses in particular on those Qur'anic statements THAT CHRISTIANS IN HIS
DAY DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE, for example that they consider Jesus to be a separate
God (Q 5:72), or consider God to be third of three (Q. 5:73), or even consider Mary to be a
God (Q 5:116). ‘Abd al-Jabbar contends that Muhammad was right to attribute these statements
to Christians: (Critique of Christian Origins, a parallel English-Arabic text, edited, translated, and
annotated by Gabriel Said Reynolds & Samir Khalil Samir [Brigham Young University Press,
Provo, Utah 2010], p. xlvi; bold and capital emphasis ours)
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Peter Dimond)
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2016/04/let-study-quran-speak-pt-1b.html
2 captures
- Is Paul a True Apostle? (Keith
Thompson vs. Muslim Nadir
24 Apr 2016 - 21 Aug 2016
Ahmed)
- Does the Immaculate
Conception Contradict Scripture
and History? (Keith Thompson
vs. Richard a Roman Catholic)
-Infant Baptism Debate: Chris
Gautreau vs. Zachary Kueker
(written debate)
- Is God Sovereign Over All?
(Chris Gautreau vs.
FaithandPractice)
- Is Christianity a Religion of
Peace? (Keith Thompson vs.
Muslim Sami Zaatari)
- Discussion with two Catholics
on Interpreting Scripture
- Is Free Will Biblical? (Keith
Thompson vs. Charismatic
Arminian)
- Is Original Sin Biblical? (Keith
Thompson vs. Two Pelagians)
- Does the New Testament Teach
the Deity of Jesus? (Keith
Thompson vs. Yuratchka the
Arian)
- Does Scripture Teach
Predestination? (Keith Thompson
vs. Arminian - very short)
ARTICLES
Islam
- The Reliability of the Gospel of
John
- Comprehensive Case Jesus
Died by Crucifixion
- Are the Gospels too late and
Unreliable?
- Original Sources the Koran
Stole its Stories from
- The Corruption of the Koran:
Evidence and New Research
- Muhammad Taught and
Practiced Offensive Jihad
- Are Muhammad and Islam
Predicted in the Bible?
- Errors in the Koran and
Ahadith
- Evidence Muhammad was
Demon Possessed
- Jesus as God Before Paul
- Some Absurd and Silly
Teachings of Muhammad
- Refuting Bart Ehrman’s
“Passion Contradictions”
Muslims Parrot
- Jesus Sent for Jews Only?:
Answering Muslims
- 20 Reasons to Never Join Islam
- Is Christianity a Religion of
Peace?
- Who Wrote the Gospels?
Internal and External Arguments
for Traditional Authorship
- Answering Sami Zaatari on the
Pharisaic Accusation that Christ
Claimed Deity
- A Case for the Deity of Christ in
Light of Muslim Objections
- The Historical Case for Paul's
Apostleship: And a Critique of
Muslim Arguments
- Muhammad's Condition in
Light of the Biblical Description
of Demonic Possession
- Christ’s Deity in Light of not
Knowing the Day & Hour of His
Return
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Reformed Apologetics Ministries: Let The Study Quran Speak! Pt. 1b
And:
Go APR AUG SEP
👤 ⍰❎
21 f 🐦
“Thus [Muhammad] related their statement that Christ is God, and ‘God is the
2015 third
2016 of three.’
2017 ▾ About this capture
These are their essential teachings, but they barely express them clearly. Instead, THEY RESIST
THE ESSENCE OF THEM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, so that their principal authors and their
writers who are devoted to this barely summarize their teachings. You will find that if you asked
the disputants and debaters among them about their statement on Christ, they would say, ‘Our
statement is that he is the Spirit of God and His Word, JUST LIKE THE STATEMENT OF
MUSLIMS. We say, “God is one.”’…
“For the most part you will encounter among them who says: ‘We did not say God is Christ. We
did not say “God is the third of three.” Whoever related this about us HAS ERRED AND
LIED.’ Know, then, that Muhammad's position on this… is from God, Mighty and Exalted, and
that this is one of his signs.” (Ibid., pp. 2-3; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Finally:
“Now someone might say: ‘By my life it is demonstrated that the Christians have said that Jesus,
the son of Mary, is neither a prophet nor a Messenger of God nor a righteous servant, but rather
that he is a god, Lord, Creator, and Provider, that God is the third of three, and that he was killed
and crucified. Yet your master has said in your book, “Did you say unto men, ‘Take me and my
mother as two gods, apart from God?’” The Christians say, “This is a lie. For although we said
about [Christ] that he is a god, we did not say about his mother that she is a god.”’” (Ibid., pp. 80-
81; bold emphasis ours)
The problem is further compounded when we take into consideration that the term Allah is a proper name, not
a generic noun denoting deity. As a proper noun, Allah refers to the one who supposedly sent Jesus which, in
Christian theology, would be the Father.
Therefore, even if the Quran had said that Christians are those who believe that the Messiah Jesus son of
Mary is Allah, this still would be wrong since this would mean that Christians believe that Christ is actually
God the Father.
If the Quran wanted to correctly address Christian belief in the divinity of the Lord Jesus then it should have
said they are disbelievers who say the Messiah is God, which in Arabic would read: Laqad kafara allatheena
qaloo inna al-Masiha huwa Ilahu. Instead of using the word Allah, it would have been more appropriate to
have employed Ilah, which is the generic noun denoting deity. Note, for instance, the following examples
where Ilah is used to emphasize the fact of Allah being the only god in existence:
Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya'qub (Jacob)? When he said unto his sons, "What
will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your Ilah (God…), the Ilah (God) of your
fathers, Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), One Ilah (God), and to Him we
submit (in Islam)." S. 2:133 Hilali-khan
And Allah said (O mankind!): "Take not ilahain (two gods in worship, etc.). Verily, He (Allah) is
(the) only One Ilah (God). Then, fear Me… much…” S. 16:51 Hilali-Khan
And for every nation We have appointed religious ceremonies, that they may mention the Name of
Allah over the beast of cattle that He has given them for food. And your Ilah (God) is One Ilah
(God…), so you must submit to Him Alone (in Islam)… S. 22:34 Hilali-Khan
And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is
better… except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been
revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilah (God) and your Ilah (God) is One (i.e. Allah), and to
Him we have submitted (as Muslims)." S. 29:46 Hilali-Khan
Verily your Ilah (God) is indeed One (i.e. Allah); Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and all that is
between them, and Lord of every point of the sun's risings… S. 37:4-5 Hilali-Khan
It is He (Allah) Who is the only Ilah (God to be worshipped) in the heaven and the only Ilah (God to
be worshipped) on the earth. And He is the All-Wise, the All-Knower. S. 43:84 Hilali-Khan
That Allah is said to be the only Ilah confirms that the latter is the generic noun for god, whereas the former is
the proper name of the deity being described.
As such, the Quran is in gross error concerning what Christians actually believe, and the contributors to The
Study Quran are absolutely correct when stating that the Islamic scripture does not address, let alone censure,
the orthodox Christian understanding of the Trinity and the divinity of Christ.
Lord willing, there will be more articles in the series to appear soon.
Posted by Keith Thompson at 7:20 PM
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2/9/2019 Reformed Apologetics Ministries: Let The Study Quran Speak! Pt. 1b
- Daniel 7:13-14 and Christ’s No comments:
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2016/04/let-study-quran-speak-pt-1b.html Go APR AUG SEP 👤 ⍰❎
2 captures
Deity: Answering Ibn Anwar’s 21 f 🐦
Eisegesis
24 Apr 2016 - 21 Aug 2016
Post a Comment 2015 2016 2017 ▾ About this capture
- The Historicity of the
Appearance to the 500 in 1
Corinthians 15:6
- Muslim Misuse of Hebrews 5:7:
Does This Verse Teach Jesus
Never Died?
- Ibn Anwar’s False Charge of
Anachronistic Error: An
Exegetical Examination of Mark
2:26
- Ibn Anwar’s False Charge of
Anachronistic Error: An
Exegetical Examination of Mark
2:26, Part 2
- Jesus as Divine Judge: A
Response to the Muhammedan
Site “Do Not Say Trinity”
- Bart Ehrman: A Hero For
Islam?
- Is Asking “Where did Jesus say,
‘I am God’” a Good Argument?
- Revisiting “Where Did Jesus
Say ‘I am God’" A Response to
the Muhammedan Site “Do Not Newer Post Home Older Post
Say Trinity"
- Contra Paul Williams on the Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)
Death Penalty for Apostasy &
Christianity
- Heaven vs. Jannah: Assessing
the Dilemma
- Does Muhammad Pass the 1
John 4 Prophethood Test?
- Historical and Biblical Basis
for the Trinity
- Five Reasons Why Jesus is Not
Merely a Prophet
- Answering “Jesus isn’t God
because God doesn’t change”

Catholicism

- Absence of Papal Views Among

the Earliest Christians
- The Assumption of Mary is
Unbiblical and Ahistorical
- Did Roman Catholicism Give
Protestants the Bible?
- Are Roman Catholics Saved?
- Refutation of Papal Infallibility
- Biblical Evidence Against Peter
being Pope
- Does Matthew 16 Teach Peter
was the Pope?
- Do John 21:15-17 and Luke
22:31-32 prove Peter was Pope?
- Biblical Evidence for Sola
Scriptura
- Refuting Rome's Biblical Case
for Extrabiblical Tradition
- The Early Church Fathers
Taught Sola Scriptura
- The Bible does not teach Mary's
Immaculate Conception
- Mary is not the Ark and
Tabernacle
- The Early Church did not
Believe Rome’s Doctrine of the
Immaculate Conception of Mary
-Mary is not Co-redemptrix,
Mediatrix of all Graces, and
Advocate
- Some of Roman Catholicism's
worst Atrocities and
Abominations of History
- Baptismal Regeneration &
Justification are False
- Refuting the Catholic
Priesthood and Penance
- Proof the Roman Catholic Mass

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2/9/2019 Reformed Apologetics Ministries: Let The Study Quran Speak! Pt. 1b
is unbiblical and anti-Christian
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2016/04/let-study-quran-speak-pt-1b.html Go APR AUG SEP 👤 ⍰❎
2 captures
- Historical Examination of 21 f 🐦
Roman Catholic Eucharist
24 Apr 2016 - 21 Aug 2016 2015 2016 2017 ▾ About this capture
Theology
- Biblical and Historical
Refutation of Purgatory
- Refutation of Inclusivism: Non-
Christians can not be saved by
works
- Justification is by Faith Alone:
Issues and Evidence
- “Works” and “Works of the
Law” in Paul: Interacting with
Modern Catholic Reliance on
New Perspectivism
-Peter Dimond’s Not-So-Stunning
Acts 15 Video
-Peter Dimond LIED about
dikaiosune - Plus Debate
Challenge
- Responding to
catholicapologetics.info’s “Some
Tough Questions for Protestants”
- An Articulation of Sola
Scriptura: The Biblical Basis for
the Sufficiency of the Holy
Scriptures
- Questions Regarding the Mass
- Catholic Misuse of Genesis
3:15
- Is The Jewish Apocrypha
Inspired Scripture? Pt. 1
- Is The Jewish Apocrypha
Inspired Scripture? Pt. 2
- Is The Jewish Apocrypha
Inspired Scripture? Pt. 3
- Appendix: Addressing Some
Arguments in Support of the
Apocrypha

Other

- Hitler's Darwinian Motive for

Mass Murder
- An Historical Case for Christ's
Resurrection
- Josephus and Tacitus on Christ:
An Analysis
- The Bible and Slavery:
Answering “Atheists”
- Failure of False Religions to
Account for Human Experience
-Youtube Pelagian Sinless
Perfection Cult Redefines Sin
-Whalid Shoebat’s Son’s
“Christian Militancy” Teaching
Refuted
- The Bible Teaches Original Sin
- Jeffrey Daugherty’s “Apostle
Paul Antichrist” Theory
Debunked
- Jesus' Imputed Righteousness:
An Exegetical Case
- Refutation of Jesse Morrell’s
Documentary “Beyond
Augustine”
- Refutation of Jesse Morrell's
Documentary "Beyond
Augustine" Part 2

Click here for Sam Shamoun's

Essays

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