3

thank you for being here we have

00:06
approximately 40 minutes to solve the
00:13
mystery of existence so without wasting
00:17
any time I'm going to start talking to
00:21
Swami ji thank you for being here thank
00:23
you for having me and I'll just give a
00:26
very shortened introduction and then
00:29
we'll get going okay so how many people
00:31
here have heard the phrase the hard
00:35
problem of consciousness how many people
00:38
have not okay well if you'll go if you
00:43
do a google search and you ask what are
00:47
the 150 open questions and science the
00:53
first open question in science is what's
00:54
the universe made of and the answer is
00:58
we don't know because 96% of the
01:01
universe is mysterious dark energy dark
01:05
matter I'm not gonna go into that 4% of
01:08
the universe is atomic of the 4% of the
01:11
universe that's atomic 99.99% is
01:17
invisible interstellar dust so we can't
01:21
see it the visible universe which we are
01:25
now told according to the scientific
01:27
model is two trillion galaxies it's two
01:31
trillion galaxies so we live in the
01:33
Milky Way galaxy with a hundred billion
01:35
stars next door is Andromeda same number
01:40
of stars will go on and on keep going
01:43
two trillion galaxies 760 liyan planets
01:49
I don't even know how to write that and
01:51
according to current scientific models
01:54
trillions uncountable trillions of
01:57
planets possibly 60 billion habitable
02:00
planets in our own galaxy based on what
02:04
they called Goldilocks zone
02:07
that's only point zero one percent of
02:10
the universe
02:12
that's point zero one the rest is
02:14
unknown or unknowable and the point zero
02:18
one percent that's atomic if you go deep
02:20
into the nature of atoms they become
02:23
particles and then particles have this
02:26
mysterious behavior that when they're
02:30
not being looked at or they don't
02:32
interact with other particles they
02:34
become waves and unlike particles which
02:37
are units of mass and they have units of
02:40
mass and energy waves just exists as
02:42
possibility it's bottom line the
02:44
universe is made out of nothing so why
02:48
does it look like this that's the hard
02:52
problem of consciousness why does it
02:55
look like this how do atoms and
02:57
molecules in the brain or electrical
03:00
impulses create this experience this
03:02
experience the experience of your own
03:04
body the experience of your own mind and
03:08
actually most people now think this hard
03:11
problem is unsolvable if you think of
03:17
matter as foundational if matter is the
03:21
ontological primitive then the problem
03:24
is unsolvable so that's why we have
03:27
Swami ji he's going to solve the problem
03:29
for us very badly by telling us there is
03:33
no hard problem at all if if you take
03:39
the reverse point of view and that is
03:42
consciousness is fundamental and matter
03:46
is a human construct
03:48
but without now me going on and on Swami
03:53
ji vedanta has solved this problem what
03:57
is Vedanta well thank you for the
04:00
introduction Deepak Vedanta is the is a
04:03
philosophical system or a family of
04:05
philosophical systems based on very
04:08
ancient texts called the open Asians and
04:10
these Upanishads are the final the
04:13
highest teachings of the Vedas the Vedas
04:16
as we know are very ancient scriptures
04:19
of the other Hindu religion so these
04:21
Upanishads
04:23
they contain certain insights about who
04:28
we are what we are and what reality is
04:32
the Rishi's the ancient sages who came
04:36
upon these insights they found that by
04:39
knowledge of these insights by getting
04:41
these insights it actually it solves the
04:45
very human problem of the suffering the
04:48
problem of death of meaninglessness this
04:51
the the crucial human problems they are
04:54
actually solved if you have knowledge
04:56
about what we are and what this reality
04:59
we live in is is what we are
05:01
experiencing if you want me to put it in
05:05
one sentence and happily we can do that
05:07
the sentence is that thou art than urs
05:12
that - Amma see it means there is an
05:15
absolute reality of this universe which
05:17
can be known or realized and luckily for
05:21
us we are that absolute reality that -
05:24
Amma see means that that you are the
05:26
absolute reality of which the entirety
05:29
of this universe and the person you
05:31
experience yourself to be these are
05:33
manifestations of that one absolute
05:35
reality which is called Brahman in the
05:38
open oceans thomassie means that thou
05:43
art and this identity is the essential
05:47
teaching of Vedanta and they claim that
05:50
it actually can be experienced in life
05:52
it's not a speculation it can be
05:55
experienced and it must be experienced
05:57
in order to overcome suffering so this
06:00
is basically the core teaching of of
06:04
bailant and that absolute reality is
06:07
usually expressed in English as pure
06:11
consciousness yes pure consciousness or
06:15
pure existence the Sanskrit terms are
06:19
sucked
06:19
which means pure being or isness
06:21
existence chit
06:23
which means awareness consciousness in
06:27
itself but also happily and pun intended
06:31
Ananda which means happiness so joy or
06:34
bliss
06:36
so as swami vivekananda put it existence
06:40
itself consciousness itself and bliss
06:43
itself that is the nature of the
06:45
ultimate reality which by Dantas speaks
06:46
about so let's now use one terms for
06:50
convenience such it on unjust for lack
06:54
of for the economy of expenditure of
06:59
energy let's just use the word
07:01
consciousness absolutely and so
07:03
consciousness is the basis of every
07:06
experience we have whether it's mind or
07:08
body or the universe right right so give
07:11
your definition of consciousness and how
07:13
you would expect a theist questions for
07:16
me give you a definition in fact in fact
07:20
it is interesting that we live in
07:21
interesting times from I was just
07:23
talking to
07:24
Deepak a little while ago consciousness
07:27
studies has become very important in the
07:29
last twenty twenty-five years scientists
07:32
were not so interested in consciousness
07:35
until about twenty five or thirty years
07:37
ago but right now consciousness studies
07:40
is booming there are the psychologists
07:43
are obviously interested interested in
07:45
it neuroscientists are interested in it
07:47
linguists and philosophers and people
07:50
cosmologists are interested in it
07:52
computer scientists are interested in it
07:54
so you think that all of these people
07:57
interested so they know what they are
07:58
talking about but they cannot agree on
08:00
what they are talking about what is the
08:02
definition of consciousness they there
08:05
is no consensus there are multiple
08:06
definitions of consciousness but none of
08:08
them are acceptable across the board in
08:10
fact a friend of mine who is a
08:12
mathematician and a monk he told me that
08:16
I don't take this entire field of
08:18
consciousness studies too seriously
08:20
I said why ever not because it seems to
08:23
be what we are doing as monks he said
08:26
any field of study where you cannot
08:28
define this subject of study is not yet
08:30
a mature field of study all right now
08:34
what Deepak is asking me is give me a
08:35
definition of consciousness so I'm going
08:38
to give you a definition of
08:39
consciousness from the Vedanta
08:41
perspective where actually they are very
08:43
clear and what they mean by
08:45
consciousness get this
08:49
whatever you are aware of is not
08:54
consciousness it's it's a what is called
08:59
a vr- a definition a definition by
09:02
exclusion that means anything that you
09:05
are aware of right now you are aware of
09:06
sights and sounds and smells all of this
09:10
so there are objects of consciousness
09:13
you are aware of them and that which is
09:16
aware of them is consciousness
09:18
so then consciousness B is basically
09:21
awareness of experience right is the
09:24
awareness in which experience becomes
09:26
possible yeah so here you know I attend
09:29
these conferences that you're talking
09:31
about and people come up with all kinds
09:33
of definitions so some materialists say
09:37
consciousness is first-person experience
09:40
others say consciousness is the knowing
09:42
element in every experience but I think
09:45
the non-dual lists these days you know a
09:48
lot of non-dual lists in the West you
09:49
there they're saying the consciousness
09:52
the knowing element in every experience
09:54
so right now you know that you're having
09:56
this experience you also know that you
09:58
have a body you also know that you have
10:00
a mind so what is it that knows this
10:04
experience called
10:05
mind body world other non duelists have
10:09
expanded on that and so consciousness is
10:12
that in which all experience occurs all
10:15
experience is known and out of which all
10:18
experience is made so you started off by
10:21
saying consciousness is not anything
10:24
that is an object yes so this what is
10:28
this this is an experience in
10:30
consciousness right right look at the
10:33
words which deeper just use right now
10:36
the knowing element that by which
10:39
knowledge is possible now what we dontoh
10:41
would say is that if you carefully look
10:43
at knowledge all your experience and
10:47
eliminate mentally in your understanding
10:50
eliminate from your experience whatever
10:52
is objective by which I mean you're
10:56
looking at this beaker that is this jar
10:58
here this is objective because it's an
11:00
object of your
11:01
looking at it it's an object but what is
11:03
looking at it your eyes but you're aware
11:06
of your eyes your eyes are open closed
11:08
the guy's boring me so much I can't keep
11:10
my eyes open
11:11
you are aware of that so the eyes are
11:13
also objects in your awareness now you
11:17
are aware of your eyes with your mind
11:19
you're thinking about your eyes so the
11:22
thoughts in the mind you're also aware
11:25
of that so even the thoughts in the mind
11:27
are objects of awareness in this way if
11:31
you eliminate again in understanding
11:34
everything that is objective everything
11:37
that is an object in your experience you
11:40
are left with consciousness as it is and
11:42
don't try to catch it
11:43
ah now I will get consciousness as it is
11:45
you will never get it that way because
11:47
that would be an object so it is the you
11:51
the real you in fact one definition of
11:53
consciousness offered by one of the
11:55
disciples of the great Shankar Acharya
11:57
in Sanskrit are needham titanium very
12:02
elegant definition what is it not this
12:05
awareness from your awareness from your
12:09
experience just now if you eliminate in
12:12
your understanding everything that you
12:13
can call this this jar this body this
12:17
eye this mind this thought if you
12:22
eliminate that which shines upon all of
12:24
them that is consciousness from what
12:28
shines is the knowing element Swamiji
12:30
said you can't go looking for
12:32
consciousness because it is that which
12:34
is doing the looking right you can't
12:37
find it out there because it's that
12:39
which is looking at what's out there but
12:42
let's go a little deeper now that you
12:44
have right you have created the basis
12:47
now consciousness is not an object the
12:50
object is experience in consciousness
12:53
now this is also an object right what is
12:56
also magic and the thoughts are also an
12:58
object right so can we say let's say
13:02
you're a baby you just showed up in the
13:05
world which by the way has already been
13:07
interpreted for every baby for two
13:09
thousand plus years ever since people
13:12
started to speak in language
13:15
created culture and started telling
13:17
stories people started interpreting
13:21
experience and we are born into an
13:25
interpreted world before we are born you
13:27
see you're a baby of what you see here
13:30
is not a show you see a color a shape
13:33
right if you touch it it's a sensation
13:36
if you you know you can smell it taste
13:39
it if you want but or it make noise out
13:43
of it so these are sensory experiences
13:47
right without labels right but then
13:49
humans create labels and create
13:51
constructs we call that a show we call
13:53
this a hand we call this a body we call
13:55
this the world right and then we give
13:57
names and you were earlier on explaining
14:00
to me this is the whole phenomenon that
14:03
we call it nom Rupa right but this
14:06
naming creates a human construct of what
14:13
is really a sensory perception which in
14:17
turn is a mental activity which in turn
14:23
as you just say can conjugate an
14:25
activity in consciousness right so if we
14:27
take that naturally yeah then this is
14:30
also made out of consciousness ah this
14:34
is I think debugs favorite theme but
14:37
everything is made out of consciousness
14:38
but here's the thing here because that's
14:40
what one of the schools of Vedanta art
14:43
weight of a tanta you know this
14:46
Upanishads are speaking about so great
14:48
philosophers came along and they took
14:50
these open issues and they developed
14:53
very complex but very current and
14:56
consistent systems of philosophy based
14:58
on these oak initials so they became the
15:00
different schools of Vedanta one school
15:03
which is very well known is Advaita
15:04
Vedanta non-dual Vedanta there the idea
15:09
is that not only are you consciousness
15:11
but then everything else is also
15:15
consciousness now this might sound as
15:18
somebody told me recently a materialist
15:20
it's a wacky idea it's a crazy idea how
15:22
can everything be consciousness but it
15:24
goes like this
15:26
once you say that whatever is objective
15:29
is not consciousness that which is aware
15:32
of the object is consciousness then you
15:34
are left with the entire world of
15:36
objects the entire universe out there my
15:39
own body even the mind they're all
15:42
objects now you I am the consciousness
15:45
witnessing all of this now your question
15:47
is then what are these objects and
15:50
that's where Vedanta becomes very
15:52
interesting it says all of the things
15:55
that you experience in consciousness as
15:57
objects are actually nothing other than
16:00
consciousness itself you the pure
16:03
consciousness entirely subjective
16:04
consciousness appears out there as a as
16:09
a world set in space and time and full
16:12
of objects with the with the help of
16:14
name and form so this names and forms
16:18
another name for this is Maya name and
16:20
from nama Rupa so what you're seeing
16:22
here is you the consciousness in
16:25
yourself appears a mind a body with its
16:28
senses and the senses revealed to it and
16:30
universe of objects set out there
16:33
apparently in time and space including
16:35
this glass jar and all of this is
16:37
name-and-form interpretation as you said
16:41
somebody put it very beautiful in
16:43
language is the knife with which you cut
16:45
reality so this batch of color but what
16:49
it might look like to a baby but the
16:52
mother comes and explains this is a jar
16:54
of water and this is your body this is
16:56
your body and a concept of your body
16:59
that also slowly a baby learns over time
17:03
let us my bath given this understanding
17:06
and given the Vedic worldview and given
17:11
the fact that we as humans we can only
17:14
speak in language and explain things in
17:17
language and as soon as we create a word
17:21
we in a sense create a construct of the
17:24
fundamental reality which right now you
17:28
said is consciousness that to a massive
17:31
brahmasmi tattva masih given this
17:34
contract for our audience who is not
17:37
familiar with these terms can you help
17:41
explain the difference between Jeeva
17:46
Brahman and then let's go further after
17:50
that hey once it's an opportunity to get
17:52
we don't earn less than an hour we can't
17:57
waste time Vedanta 101 day yes that
18:06
absolute reality which Vedanta speaks
18:08
about is called Brahman
18:10
and the word Brahman etymologically if
18:13
you look at it in sanskrit it simply
18:15
means the vast that which has no limit
18:17
just the vast it's not the name of a
18:20
particular god or anything like that
18:21
it's just the limitless the vast the
18:25
infinite and by the way when you talk
18:28
about infinite a mathematician or a
18:30
scientist might want to ask ask you what
18:33
exactly do you mean by the infinite
18:34
because they are precisely defined
18:36
infinite more than one infinite in
18:37
mathematics for example where on tile is
18:40
a very precise definition of the
18:41
infinite it says that which is not
18:45
limited in space-time and object is the
18:50
infinite in sanskrit deja Carla was to
18:53
parichi the shown iam divided of
18:56
limitations in time-space and object
18:58
what are limitations in time born at
19:01
this time dying at this time created and
19:03
destroyed so that's a limitation in time
19:05
if you do not have a limitation in time
19:07
what happens your eternal there's no
19:11
point where your creator that is created
19:13
no point that it is destroyed no here's
19:15
a very important thing to understand
19:17
eternal doesn't mean stretching in time
19:19
forever eternal means timeless not in
19:22
time you're right it's not which
19:24
something which lasts a long time
19:26
that's one way of understanding eternal
19:28
but that's just a preliminary step the
19:29
real thing is you are time is in you you
19:33
might ask that sounds confusing what do
19:36
you mean time is in you
19:37
there aren't the means it in a very
19:38
simple sense when you experience time
19:42
right
19:42
that Tim just told us we're going to
19:45
wrap up by 8:30 so it's in Tim's
19:47
consciousness all the time that we are
19:50
going to wrap up at 8:30 8:30 is not
19:53
aware of Tim Tim is aware of 8:30 that's
19:57
all that we donto means when it says
19:58
that time is in consciousness and not a
20:01
consciousness in time another human
20:03
girl's room and no limitation in object
20:07
that's an interesting thing in Indian
20:09
philosophy limitation in object needs
20:11
this glass jar is just a glass jar it's
20:15
not the table it's not deeper or me so
20:18
each object has its own identity and
20:20
it's different from everything else
20:21
that's called limitation by object and
20:23
being infinite means it is not limited
20:27
to any particular object which means no
20:31
object in the universe is different from
20:33
Brahman
20:34
if no object is different from Brahman
20:36
there's no difference between Brahman
20:38
and any other object there is no second
20:40
thing apart from raman so that no second
20:43
means advaita non duality so brahman is
20:45
that non dual reality which is not
20:47
limited by time space or object the the
20:51
objects in consciousness cannot limit
20:56
consciousness consciousness is not
21:00
limited by its contents but no Atman
21:05
yes that's the second important concept
21:07
in Vedanta Atman means you
21:11
so when Vedanta says that thou art what
21:15
it basically means Brahman is equal to
21:17
Atman it means that that infinite
21:19
reality not limited by time space and
21:21
object is you you might say that sounds
21:25
cool but I can't really believe that but
21:28
it's you in a very special sense not you
21:31
as a body not you as the mind or as the
21:35
live in limited person but as that
21:37
absolute consciousness which shines
21:39
through that particular mind and body so
21:42
which in fact shines through and reveals
21:44
the person you take yourself to be so
21:46
that reality beyond the person that pure
21:49
consciousness is called admin and admin
21:52
is equal to Brahman is basically the
21:54
teaching of Earth
21:56
so if you say what is Atman the real me
21:58
or the real I which is the reality of
22:00
this Universal it's the self not the
22:03
selfie yes but Chopra is the selfie who
22:09
your name and your form is your selfie
22:13
at the moment through an act of
22:16
perception but when we say I what is the
22:19
eye that is experiencing this I think
22:23
the selfie idea struck me no in Vedanta
22:26
we keep saying that you have to find out
22:28
who am I or what am i because if you
22:31
discover that you've discovered the
22:32
reality of the universal self knowledge
22:34
I think that's the real selfie then you
22:37
instead of taking a picture of the body
22:38
if you could take a picture of yourself
22:40
as you really are that would be the
22:42
ultimate selfie I think that would be a
22:44
nice topic for a talk we ultimately what
22:47
is the difference between Atman and the
22:51
Sanskrit term Jeeva it's as we
22:56
experience ourselves right now if I tell
22:59
you that your pure consciousness you
23:01
might say Swami that sounds nice but
23:02
that's not how I see myself how do you
23:05
see yourself how do you experience
23:07
yourself we experience ourselves as
23:09
persons as embodied in bodies which are
23:13
born and change and age and decay and
23:15
die we enjoy and suffer so this being
23:19
which is definitely a conscious being
23:21
but which finds itself limited to a body
23:25
and mind this is called the Jiva and
23:27
even that body mind is an activity it's
23:30
not a noun it's a verb it's a changing
23:33
process right so in in pure
23:36
consciousness true the body is a series
23:39
of changes we can we all know it from
23:42
birth till now and eventually from
23:45
babyhood to childhood to being a
23:48
teenager to a young person middle age
23:50
and an old person it's like a stream of
23:52
changes in this physical matter that's
23:55
the body and the mind changes even
23:57
faster I mean today from the morning
23:59
till now how many times you've been
24:01
happy in irritated and curious and bored
24:05
mind changes continuously it's a series
24:08
of changes
24:09
at a subtle level we experience it
24:12
within yourself and this body mind
24:16
series of changes appearing in
24:19
consciousness having forgotten its
24:21
consciousness nature is what we call the
24:24
individual - Jeeva that's that the
24:25
vedantic understanding of the person and
24:27
this Jeeva is and correct me if I'm
24:31
wrong because you're not he's been at it
24:37
much longer than I am yeah but you have
24:41
to train me Jeeva is programmed by if I
24:47
may use that word by sanskara karma
24:50
vaasana' at a very fundamental level so
24:55
can you explain these terms our well yes
24:59
our story does not begin at birth and
25:03
does not end with death
25:05
we are very ancient creatures even the
25:07
most newborn baby is actually a very
25:11
very ancient creature we have existed
25:14
many lives before and they are possibly
25:17
many more lives ahead of us that's the
25:19
Vedanta world view this Jeeva existed
25:23
before this it came to this particular
25:25
body it existed in other bodies in other
25:27
worlds and so over an infinite period of
25:31
time through actions it has been
25:34
accumulating through cause and effect
25:37
what is called the law of karma the law
25:38
of karma to put it very briefly every
25:40
action has its reaction or its its
25:43
effect every cause has its consequence
25:46
and this is something very fundamental
25:48
in Indian philosophy the enormous
25:51
variety within Hinduism Buddhism Jainism
25:53
Sikhism all the Indic philosophies but
25:57
they all accept the law of karma that
25:59
there is causality now because of this
26:03
we are what we are today it explains the
26:07
differences between each Jeeva as
26:09
consciousness we are one one reality but
26:12
when you come to the mind and the body
26:14
and the person we are so different we
26:16
have different stories different
26:17
abilities different problems and
26:19
different possibilities all of these
26:21
differences
26:22
are the results of past Karma and what
26:25
we do with it right now generates new
26:28
Karma for future existences so this is
26:30
karma now karma has two effects one is
26:34
it gives us this life and the other is
26:36
it has an effect on our minds so the
26:39
effect on our minds our individual likes
26:41
and dislikes whether you prefer this or
26:43
that whether you hate this thing or that
26:45
thing those individual preferences are
26:47
called some scars and they exist in the
26:50
mind in the subtle body that's what the
26:52
Jeeva takes away after death yeah
26:55
so the Karma the sense cara the
27:00
vaasanas' is that the personality with
27:04
which say you'd have to i didn't you
27:07
have identical twins they have the same
27:09
fertilized oh but any mother will tell
27:13
you that they're two different
27:15
personalities is that coming from sense
27:18
Farah
27:18
true true I mean even children in the
27:21
same house or do you mentioned twins but
27:23
parents know how different they are
27:25
so these differences though they come
27:28
from the same parents they're probably
27:29
brought up in the same kind of
27:31
environment nature and nurture both seem
27:33
to be similar but then there's
27:35
tremendous difference between children
27:36
so that comes it's inherited from past
27:38
lives that's the vedantic understanding
27:41
of how we are so different completing
27:45
this map step by step then even in
27:49
Iraida we talk about physical body
27:53
culture ears sukshma sharir subtle body
27:56
mind intellect ego causal body explain
28:01
this map just a little bit the physical
28:03
body the subtle body the causal body
28:05
okay that's an important concept but one
28:09
thing I want everybody to know is
28:11
Vedanta it's not speculation
28:14
it's not even metaphysics it's firmly
28:17
grounded in experience who's experience
28:19
your experience in my experience so when
28:21
you talk about a physical body subtle
28:23
body causal body it's all experiencial
28:26
and right now you can see it right now
28:28
what is the physical body that which you
28:30
can see you can see it you can touch it
28:33
taste it smell it did
28:34
this is this the physical body yes that
28:36
which you see which you can weigh that's
28:38
the physical body now within this
28:41
physical body is what Vedanta calls a
28:43
subtle body how do you know do you just
28:46
have to close your eyes and look inside
28:48
you see you I'm happy
28:50
that's the subtle body I'm unhappy
28:52
subtle body I remember I forget I want I
28:55
dislike I understand I do not understand
28:58
all that you directly experience within
29:01
yourself this first-person experience
29:03
which we are having right now that's the
29:05
subtle body and beyond that Vedanta
29:08
talks about something a little more
29:10
obscure called the causal body which is
29:14
the blankness which we experience in
29:16
deep sleep if you right now try to
29:18
experience yourself beyond the subtle
29:20
body what is it that it is which is
29:22
experiencing the subtle body you tend to
29:24
hit a blank wall if you see tripe right
29:26
now that is the causal body and Vedanta
29:29
says the real you the Atman is not the
29:33
physical body you are not this body is
29:35
not the subtle body not even the mind
29:38
not even the person is not even the
29:40
causal body but that consciousness in
29:42
which all of these are experienced and
29:45
the way I put it is you are you can
29:47
drive a car that doesn't make you a car
29:49
you are embodied we have a body
29:53
president that doesn't deny that you're
29:54
experiencing a body and a mind that's
29:56
all there but you are not that you're
29:59
not limited to that so every day Swamiji
30:02
we go through this experience waking
30:04
dreaming deep sleep right so we
30:11
understand breaking this is waking
30:13
unless somebody's dozed off yeah always
30:16
a problem will be done everybody's in
30:18
the waking okay then the dream state we
30:22
also experience every night yes and deep
30:25
sleep we also experience every night but
30:29
in deep sleep there is awareness right
30:35
not conscious experience for awareness
30:38
he is touched upon a very important
30:41
subject if we are saying that your
30:44
awareness I am awareness and this is
30:47
constant
30:47
body changes mind changes then somebody
30:51
might ask what about deep sleep
30:53
whatever the stages we call unconscious
30:56
are under under anesthesia there's no
30:59
awareness there's no consciousness there
31:00
so where are there is this pure
31:01
consciousness vedanta talks about
31:03
vedanta insists there is consciousness
31:05
there and that's where you begin to
31:08
understand what way dontoh means by
31:10
consciousness see a fundamental
31:12
difference has to be understood here in
31:14
in concepts normally in ordinary
31:18
discourse especially here in the West we
31:20
take the mind to be consciousness so
31:23
hearing smelling touching talking
31:25
thinking desiring willing remembering
31:27
this is called consciousness but what
31:30
Vedanta says is this is consciousness
31:32
plus the activity of the mind so all the
31:36
changes that you say see are the mind
31:38
but consciousness is not the mind it X
31:41
it reveals the activity of the mind and
31:43
when the mind shuts down in deep sleep
31:46
the blankness that nothingness that you
31:49
experience in deep sleep it's still an
31:51
experience I put it this way deep sleep
31:54
is not an absence of experience it is an
31:57
experience of absence so that's what
32:01
we're on you know you know experience
32:03
comes when consciousness has an object
32:05
in deep sleep consciousness has no
32:08
object because the world is not revealed
32:10
body as shut down
32:11
I mean body is not we are not using the
32:13
body to experience the world the mind is
32:16
shut down there are no dreams so because
32:18
there are no objects it seems to be
32:20
nothing but you do wake up and then you
32:23
do say I slept like a log I didn't know
32:26
anything
32:27
I slept like a baby this this phrase is
32:31
there the similar phrases are there in
32:32
every language showing that it's a
32:34
common experience across all all of
32:37
humanity so that means it's an
32:39
experience it's not nothing so there is
32:42
consciousness in deep sleep that's what
32:45
in fact a recent book which talks about
32:48
the phenomenon of conscious that
32:50
consciousness is there in deep sleep
32:52
it's called waking dreaming being by
32:54
Evan Thompson was a philosopher in the
32:57
University of British Columbia they said
32:59
that even in deep sleep you have to
33:01
admit
33:01
business and he makes him interesting
33:03
comment at the very beginning he says
33:05
that consciousness studies didn't bring
33:08
in 25 years ago it began with the
33:11
Upanishads 5000 years ago and he makes a
33:14
tremendous statement he says we should
33:16
not date our history from you know ad
33:19
and BC we should date history from
33:23
before opening shots and after opening
33:25
shots they are so important yes
33:26
tremendous assertion he makes let's talk
33:29
about deep sleep and the relations is
33:32
deep sleep what kind of a flute window
33:35
to what death okay now now we are moving
33:43
into grim subject we go into in India
33:47
when they do a cremation or frequently
33:50
but what Vitas yeah you know Lord
33:53
Krishna says the real you is not subject
33:56
to birth or death water cannot wet it
33:59
wind cannot right right it's got a
34:01
shattered fire cannot burn it's it's
34:03
ancient weapons cannot leave it its
34:06
unborn it's not subject to death right
34:08
and you know many Swami's like yourself
34:11
when they say what you know what happens
34:14
to you after death is their answer is I
34:17
was never born which is very confusing
34:20
to people but what is the connection
34:23
between say waking dreaming sleeping and
34:27
Toria and death all right
34:30
you use the term Talia which is a common
34:33
term in Vedanta it literally means the
34:35
fourth what do you mean by the fourth
34:39
Vedanta looks at it this way there are
34:41
different procedures methodologies if
34:43
you will for discovering ourselves as
34:45
pure consciousness and anybody can try
34:46
them out one of the methodologies is to
34:49
use our common experience of waking
34:52
dreaming and deep sleep to come to an
34:56
intuition of ourselves as the witness
34:58
consciousness of waking dreaming and
35:00
deep sleep when you are when you are
35:04
identified with this person this this
35:07
waking person you are called the Waker
35:09
call it the first when you are
35:12
identified with the person you are in
35:14
the dream
35:15
you're not aware that you're dreaming
35:16
it's a dream which you realize later but
35:18
you were there in the dream as a person
35:20
that person is that is we call it the
35:23
dreamer
35:24
then deep sleep that consciousness
35:27
associated with deep sleep when you wake
35:29
up and say I slept like a baby
35:31
call it the third the deep sleeper so
35:33
you have the Waker the dreamer and the
35:35
deep sleeper and these are the three
35:38
which we are used to we think of
35:41
ourselves as this is our experience and
35:43
what Vedanta teaches us the insight
35:45
crucial insight of a Dante's you are not
35:47
the first the Waker not the second
35:49
sleeper the dreamer not the third the
35:52
deep sleeper but what it calls the
35:54
fourth the consciousness in which all of
35:57
these are appearing and disappearing so
36:00
the consciousness is apart from these
36:03
three and yet underlying all of these
36:05
three that forth is called Torian and
36:08
that is not subject to good that is not
36:10
subject to Burton did what is subject to
36:12
birth and death the body what is subject
36:15
to change the mind but the to do itself
36:19
is the witness of the birth and the
36:21
death of the body Bert and the aging in
36:24
the decay and the death of the body it
36:26
itself does not is not born with the
36:28
birth of the body it itself does not age
36:30
with the aging of the body itself does
36:32
not die with the dying of the body and
36:34
the changes of the mind to do itself
36:37
repeats the changes of the mind the
36:39
Mundaka Upanishad this is a classic text
36:41
of Advaita Vedanta it says that that you
36:44
are datoria
36:45
you are not the Waker dreamer or deep
36:47
sleeper and the whole point is to
36:49
realize yourself as datoria and it's not
36:52
really the fourth really when you come
36:54
to an understanding of it it is the one
36:56
which appears as the three so now we we
37:04
both were talking about
37:05
Wittgenstein the German philosopher and
37:08
Wittgenstein said in one of his writings
37:15
our life is a dream we are asleep but
37:18
once in a while we wake up enough to
37:20
know that we are dreaming so by tonight
37:23
whatever happened today will be a dream
37:27
your childhood is now a dream
37:30
what happened five minutes ago is a
37:32
dream what happened to my words but they
37:36
reach you there God so actually this
37:40
right now in a sense the waking dream
37:44
because it's ungraspable right one
37:46
minute ago is ungraspable and so this is
37:51
a waking dream in what we might say a
37:53
lucid now and the reason I'm bringing
37:56
this to our attention right now is this
38:00
waking dream is frequently referred to
38:02
as Maya well you're right because it's a
38:05
projection of consciousness but anyway
38:08
how does this all help us how does this
38:11
help us alleviate our existential
38:14
suffering what has this to do with the
38:17
five glaciers that they dont't talks
38:20
about yeah before I get to that I know
38:25
when you when deepak says this is all a
38:27
dream I would see some skeptical faces
38:30
it's oh no no this is real and the
38:31
dreams are dreams and this is real but
38:33
you know look at it this way what if you
38:38
imagine something eating a cookie you'd
38:41
say that's an imagination it's not real
38:42
and if I eat a cookie that's real but
38:45
now do this imagine eating a cookie and
38:48
also remember that a cookie which you
38:51
ate maybe one day ago or two days ago
38:53
the memory of eating a cookie and the
38:56
imagination of eating a cookie they seem
38:58
very similar because both are in the
39:01
mind and mental and what Deepak says is
39:03
this very thing which seems very real
39:06
now is going to become a memory every
39:09
every fleeting second it's retreating
39:11
into memory when you compare that memory
39:14
with the fantasy came into this room
39:16
exactly right now if we imagine walking
39:19
us walking into this room it's memory
39:21
how is that different from the memory of
39:24
a dream every fleeting moment which we
39:27
call real is quickly at tremendous speed
39:30
disappearing into a dreamlike memory you
39:34
would still argue no but this particular
39:36
moment feels very real and Vedanta
39:39
agrees
39:40
to this present moment feels very real
39:43
because you are here you are reality
39:48
this moment borrows its reality from you
39:50
see wherever you are that feels real to
39:53
you imagine even in your dreams when you
39:56
are actually in a dream you don't know
39:58
it's a dream it feels very real it feels
40:01
very real at that time it's because of
40:03
the presence of consciousness and that
40:05
present moment which lends reality to it
40:07
so the only continuity in any experience
40:11
is that which you say I when you say
40:13
where are you you say I'm here right but
40:17
if you go inside the body there's no one
40:19
there because this body is in I being
40:22
experienced my mind is being experienced
40:24
not that high is the only invariant in
40:29
every dreamlike experience absolutely
40:33
only constant and absolutely we're a
40:36
baby and when you were a teenager
40:38
different body different mind but the
40:41
invariant is that luminous consciousness
40:44
right and brings that experience the
40:47
light of awareness that brings that
40:48
experience right to what we call reality
40:51
I'll make a small distinction here when
40:53
you say I that I is not the ego yes it's
40:58
the I would call it the witness of the
41:00
ego yeah the ego comes and goes so when
41:03
you are deeply absorbed in something
41:05
playing a game of tennis or something
41:07
like that or immersed in a beautiful
41:09
musical experience you lose sense of
41:12
self so you'll see has the eye gone then
41:15
the ego is not apparent there but
41:17
consciousness that's always there
41:19
otherwise you wouldn't have that
41:20
experience at all so that's what he
41:21
means by the luminous eye but going back
41:23
to the very important question which
41:25
deeper cast what good is all of this
41:26
what's the point of all of this the
41:29
point is its most important thing in our
41:31
lives the whole point of this and of all
41:34
of Indian philosophies the different
41:36
schools it doesn't have to be at the
41:37
weight of a rant it could be Buddhism it
41:39
could be Nia Sankhya the whole point is
41:42
overcoming suffering and attainment of
41:46
true lasting peace and happiness how
41:50
does that work think about it
41:52
where is
41:54
suffering there is suffering in the
41:56
world suffering of the body suffering of
41:59
the mind but that consciousness which
42:03
reveals the body mind in the world does
42:05
it suffer in itself you will see no I
42:08
tell you a very funny story this person
42:13
goes up to a Swami in the Himalayas and
42:15
asks Swami I'm in great suffering I'm
42:20
suffering I'm miserable helped me and
42:23
the Swami says are you aware of your
42:26
misery he says yes of course that's why
42:29
I've come here I'm unhappy I am deeply
42:31
aware of my unhappiness that's why I've
42:33
come to you miss Swami says if you are
42:36
aware of your unhappiness of your misery
42:39
then that misery is an object and you
42:41
are the consciousness aware of that
42:44
object you are aware of their object
42:47
means you cannot be that object you are
42:49
aware of unhappiness means you cannot be
42:52
unhappy you are aware of unhappiness in
42:54
the mind think about it well funny thing
42:56
is it works like this the person goes
42:58
and thinks about it and if you do that
43:00
you will see a certain distance opens up
43:03
between you as the experiencer and they
43:05
experienced unhappiness and he comes
43:09
back and says that you're right I am not
43:13
unhappy I'm experiencing and unhappiness
43:15
in the mind and I'm so peaceful now and
43:18
the Swami expulsion immediately no you
43:21
are not peaceful you are the witness of
43:23
the peace in your mind
43:26
and that's important because the moment
43:29
he distances himself from his
43:31
unhappiness and he thinks I'm at peace
43:33
you're trapped again because that's the
43:35
peace in the mind and the mind is
43:36
changeable it will change into
43:38
unhappiness again in this thing that I
43:39
was very happy at the Rubin Museum but
43:42
now we have stepped out into Times
43:43
Square I'm unhappy now both of them are
43:47
appearances and disappearances in the
43:50
mind and this is not speculation if you
43:52
look at it this is an accurate report of
43:55
what's actually happening
43:57
Vedanta just brings it to your notice
43:59
more we noticed this the more we
44:01
stabilize ourselves in that witness
44:03
consciousness the more we are free of
44:07
the ups and downs of the mind and the
44:09
body and the world yeah so that's where
44:12
the whole purpose lies going back to the
44:16
five dishes yeah with this basis yeah so
44:19
you know the five clashes in yoga
44:23
actually yeah yoga not knowing the true
44:26
nature of reality grasping and clinging
44:29
that which is ungraspable fear of
44:33
impermanence identifying with the ego
44:36
the fear they're all connected right all
44:38
right so if we ask this question what am
44:44
I Who am I go through the process in
44:48
1880 Shankara charges migrate him and we
44:52
get to this source then all these things
44:56
disappear in a sense including the fear
44:59
of death right what in your view how
45:02
should we explain death
45:05
Ibrahim it's interesting is what what is
45:09
death in this scheme right you remind me
45:14
of this meeting I was in I saw me
45:17
there's something called meetup these
45:18
days yeah
45:19
and you see you see there's a something
45:22
called a philosopher's cafe in that
45:25
philosophers get together in the New
45:28
York ethical Society and they discuss
45:33
the the great questions of philosophy
45:34
and is it the five great unsolved
45:37
questions of philosophy
45:39
we're going to discuss it in such a
45:40
necessity so I turned up for that
45:43
meeting because I was attracted and what
45:45
are the five great question if you
45:46
google it or NOx good University Press
45:47
website you'll find the five great
45:49
questions of unsolved questions of
45:50
philosophy are I'm telling you this
45:53
because one of those questions is what
45:54
Deepak asked and four of the five are
45:57
related directly to consciousness the
46:00
first question is do we have free will
46:03
the second question they discussed was
46:07
what can we know if anything at all the
46:10
question of epistemology and skepticism
46:11
go to the limits of knowledge yes and
46:14
the third one is straightaway what am I
46:17
or Who am I that was the third question
46:19
which is the fundamental question in
46:21
Vedanta then the the fourth question was
46:24
what is death and they and the fifth one
46:28
was what is justice but the fourth
46:30
question what is death and the
46:32
philosophers themselves said we are not
46:33
talking about death in the in the from
46:36
the point of view of a doctor which
46:38
Deepak is an expert in and he knows it's
46:41
an interesting topic for a doctor too
46:42
but in this system as a person what is
46:46
death to me if I'm not the body then
46:48
what is dead to me in Vedanta death is
46:51
the passing away of this particular body
46:53
you are embodying this this this
46:55
particular experience it stops because
46:57
this body cannot support the Jeeva any
47:00
longer maybe it's all maybe it's damaged
47:03
so it dies and the Jeeva moves on the
47:07
individual person moves on and all of
47:09
this is again an experience in
47:11
consciousness so in consciousness birth
47:13
and death of the body take place which
47:16
means you as consciousness even you as
47:19
Jeeva you are not subject to death in
47:22
that sense that you are not that death
47:23
is not the end of us that happens the
47:27
experience of body mind and the world
47:30
that goes with it right which is a
47:33
changing experience anyway right but not
47:36
to that which is the witnessing
47:39
awareness absolutely let me make a point
47:43
it's a subtle point but very interesting
47:45
you know when people say how do you know
47:47
a person exists after death the person
47:50
is dead obviously the body is dead and
47:52
you
47:52
Burnett or or you you bury it or
47:55
whatever it's gone so how do you know
47:58
the person is also gone but notice
48:01
something there's a very quick switch
48:03
which has happened which is a goes
48:05
unnoticed as long as I am Alive when you
48:09
see the person by that I understand I
48:12
this entity called server pre Ananda
48:15
which is encased in this body that's
48:18
what I understand as the person right
48:20
and death is understood as death of the
48:23
body but the moment apart the body is
48:25
dead the materialist will say that
48:29
person called self apparent is gone but
48:31
you at no point did you addint did you
48:34
see this person called server appear on
48:36
the disappearing you saw the body dying
48:38
and being burnt and odd order buried and
48:41
at no point did you actually see a body
48:46
that was a fixed entity as pre Ananda
48:52
that's another point it's a stream of
48:54
changes the stream intermittent flow of
48:56
sensations images feelings thoughts that
48:59
we call a body yes yes in fact this lady
49:03
she told me in in Santa Barbara she's a
49:08
nun there
49:08
she said recently Swami was passing by a
49:11
shop window and I saw my reflection in
49:15
the in the window and I thought who is
49:17
this old lady and this WOM it like went
49:21
by so fast I still think of myself in
49:23
there as a twenty-something I never
49:25
changed yes only the experience of the
49:28
eye change he has this body this mind
49:29
this this experience of the world all
49:33
right
49:34
so debt from a pedantic perspective or a
49:36
yogic perspective is the moving on of
49:39
the Jeeva from one non-functional body
49:42
to another experience in maybe another
49:44
body so you started off by saying this
49:46
is not philosophy this is actually not
49:49
even religion in a sense it's not a
49:52
system of thought it's based on
49:55
experience and knowledge directly and
49:58
that comes from a good
50:00
say yoga right in the word yoga implies
50:04
union with the self I would in fact it's
50:08
equally true to say that it's all of
50:10
these you can regard bailant as a
50:12
philosopher it as a philosophy and
50:13
certainly it is starting departments of
50:15
philosophy in India you can regard it as
50:17
a system of thought you can regard it as
50:19
a religion because if it's actually the
50:21
foundation of of religion I would just
50:24
look at it that way that is a foundation
50:26
but it's grounded in experience all the
50:30
time it does not talk about a single
50:32
thing which is different from what we
50:34
experience all the time so yes a direct
50:39
experience of this what we are talking
50:41
about there are techniques in yoga which
50:43
help us but maybe we'll talk more about
50:46
that no we have two minutes okay very
50:50
quickly Raja yoga bhakti yoga we have
50:56
everything done in less than an hour yes
51:01
and thanks to Deepak he structured it's
51:03
so wet you would say so what are the
51:07
procedures there are basically four
51:10
major classes of practices one class of
51:14
practice is what you might call
51:15
meditative practices and there's a vast
51:17
range in the Rubin Museum itself there
51:20
have been exhibits and talks and
51:22
demonstrations of various kinds of
51:25
mostly Buddhist tradition practices so
51:27
there's a wide range of meditation
51:29
practices in Hinduism you have the
51:31
potentially yoga Sutra which is a
51:32
classic manual of meditation so that's
51:34
one group the other group is based on
51:37
emotion and feeling the bhakti
51:40
traditions so that's called bhakti yoga
51:43
Live Love yes and then there is a third
51:47
group of practices which seeks to
51:50
convert our action work into spiritual
51:53
practice so what you might call in a
51:56
generic way doing good to others living
51:58
unselfishly living for a higher purpose
52:00
so all of that comes under karma karma
52:03
yoga how do I transform action from a
52:06
negativity from a prison into something
52:08
that frees me take takes me to freedom
52:10
but the one which is a personal
52:13
favorites I've saved it for the end
52:14
are the Gianna yoga the path of
52:18
knowledge which are like I just
52:21
mentioned the three stages waking
52:22
dreaming and deep sleep or the seer and
52:25
the seen trick Tricia or the method of
52:29
the five sheets the physical the vital
52:31
the mental the intellectual and the
52:33
causal sheet and so the Bliss sheet so
52:35
dear there are different these you might
52:37
call them philosophical investigate
52:40
spiritual philosophy science Sciences
52:42
which are investigation
52:43
directly based upon what you experience
52:45
right now to lead you to that intuitive
52:48
experience of I am that immortal pure
52:51
consciousness so yes before your file
52:55
directly verify but directly verify yes
52:58
okay so that's we're on tawa
53:11
you
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