U.S. vs. Cox Et Al. TBJ Day 6 5 15 12

1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2 DISTRICT OF ALASKA
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Case No. 3:11-cr-00022-RJB

)
4 Plaintiff, ) Anchorage, Alaska
) Tuesday, May 15, 2012
5 vs. ) 8:29 a.m.
)
6 FRANCIS SCHAEFFER COX, ) TRIAL BY JURY - DAY 6
COLEMAN L. BARNEY, and )
7 LONNIE G. VERNON, )
)
8 Defendants. )
)
9
PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
10
BEFORE THE HONORABLE ROBERT J. BRYAN
11 UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
12 APPEARANCES:
13 For the Plaintiff: STEVE SKROCKI

YVONNE LAMOUREUX
14 U.S. Attorney's Office
222 West 7th Avenue, #9
15 Anchorage, Alaska 99513
(907) 271-5071
16
For the Defendant: NELSON TRAVERSO
17 Francis Schaeffer Cox Nelson Traverso Law Office
312 5th Avenue
18 Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
(907) 457-3307
19
For the Defendant: TIMOTHY DOOLEY
20 Barney L. Coleman Law Office of Tim Dooley
921 West 6th Avenue, Suite 200
21 Anchorage, Alaska 99501
(907) 279-7327
22
For the Defendant: M.J. HADEN
23 Lonnie G. Vernon RICHARD CURTNER
Federal Public Defender's Agency
24 601 West 5th Avenue, Suite 800
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
25 (907) 646-3400
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1 APPEARANCES CONTINUED:
2 Court Recorder: DENALI ELMORE

U.S. District Court
3 222 West 7th Avenue, #229
Anchorage, Alaska 99513
4 (907) 677-6123
5 Transcription Service: TAMSCRIPTS

P.O. Box 2350
6 Land O Lakes, Florida 34639
(813) 428-5321
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Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording, transcript
25 produced by transcription service.
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3
1 ANCHORAGE, ALASKA - TUESDAY, MAY 15, 2012
3 (Call to Order of The Court at 8:29 a.m.)
4 (Jury not present; all parties present)
5 THE CLERK: All rise. His Honor the Court, the
6 United States District Court for the District of Alaska is now
7 in session, the Honorable Robert J. Bryan presiding.
8 THE COURT: Please be seated. Good morning.
9 THE COUNSEL: Good morning, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: I -- my assistant there found a local
11 blog all about the trial, including pictures. I'm going to
12 change my hairdo, I think. Are we ready to proceed this
13 morning?
14 MR. DOOLEY: One --
15 MS. LAMOUREUX: Yes.
16 MR. DOOLEY: -- matter, Your Honor. We had --
17 THE COURT: Mr. Dooley.
18 MR. DOOLEY: -- a report that jurors could see Ms.
19 Lamoureux's --
20 THE COURT: I'm sorry. You got to talk louder.
21 MR. DOOLEY: We had a report the jurors, or a juror,
22 could see Ms. Lamoureux's monitor and thought we could probably
23 get it turned a little more toward, say, Mr. Skrocki.
24 THE COURT: Fair enough.
25 (Side conversing)
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4
1 THE COURT: Think that's okay?
2 MR. SKROCKI: I think that's about the best --
3 THE COURT: Turn it more if you need to.
4 (Side conversing)
5 THE COURT: How did you get that information, Mr.
6 Dooley?
7 MR. DOOLEY: From one of my supporters here. I think
8 it was Mae Barney, who isn't here right now, and she had seen a
9 juror craning her neck.
10 THE COURT: Oh, okay.
11 MR. DOOLEY: The fellow that's sitting where Mr.
12 Skrocki is.
14 MS. LAMOUREUX: Maybe we could move our table back.
15 THE CLERK: No, you can't move the table back.
16 Sorry.
18 MR. SKROCKI: Your Honor, we might just have to keep
19 an eye on -- that -- that works.
20 MS. LAMOUREUX: Or we could admonish the jury, too.
22 MR. TRAVERSO: No, we don't want to admonish -- you
23 don't want to admonish the jury because then that will look
24 like a defense (indiscernible) --
25 THE COURT: Just keep it twisted so they can't see
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5
1 it.
2 MR. SKROCKI: This works.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Anything else?
4 MR. TRAVERSO: I just ask, Your Honor, with respect
5 to today, I just need a few minutes before Mr. Anderson
6 testifies. And I understand he's going to testify -- I got
7 some -- a new report from the government and I want to have
8 time to integrate it into my case today.
9 THE COURT: When's he come up?
10 MR. SKROCKI: He's coming up after Mr. Willson.
11 THE COURT: Well, I -- I don't want to take the jury
12 time for this stuff if we can possibly avoid it, so let's move
13 ahead and get where we're going as quick as we can. And if you
14 got a problem, ask for a break. Ready?
15 MR. SKROCKI: Yes, sir. I don't -- I don't think
16 we'll get to cross before lunchtime.
17 THE COURT: Oh, okay.
18 MR. TRAVERSO: Oh, okay. Thanks.
19 THE COURT: Where's our witness?
20 MS. LAMOUREUX: In the hallway.
22 DAVID ALLAN WILLSON, PLAINTIFF'S WITNESS, RESUMES THE STAND
23 (PREVIOUSLY SWORN)
24 (Jury in at 8:34 a.m.)
25 THE COURT: Good morning, all. Be seated, please.
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Willson - Direct 6
1 How are you doing today, [Alternate Juror No. 2 name]?
2 ALTERNATE JUROR NO. 2: Better.
3 THE COURT: Good, good. Okay. We will continue with
4 the direct of Mr. -- or Sergeant Willson.
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED
6 BY MS. LAMOUREUX:
7 Q Good morning Sergeant Willson.
8 A Good morning.
9 Q Yesterday when we left off, we were discussing your
10 examination of a white iPhone in February of 2011 that was
11 identified as Schaeffer's phone and we were going through those
12 notes that are admitted as Government Exhibit 794.
13 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 794 identified)
14 (Previously admitted)
15 A Yes.
16 Q If you could just provide a brief summary again to the
17 jury regarding how the notes in the iPhone work. What are the
18 notes section?
19 A The notes are an application. On the front page of the
20 iPhone, when they're first shipped to the consumer who
21 purchases it, there's a little yellow icon that says "notes"
22 and it looks kind of like a memo stickie note kind of thing,
23 like the post-it notes you see in a lot of offices. And when
24 you click on that, it has the ability to act kind of like a
25 word processor, very limited. You can type all kinds of things
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Willson - Direct 7
1 in there. You can even paste things into there from an e-mail
2 or a text message or you can copy stuff out of there and paste
3 it into e-mails or text messages and that sort of thing. So
4 it's generally kind of a very simple word processor intended, I
5 think, by the developers to just provide a quick and easy way
6 to write things down for the user of the phone.
7 Q Great.
8 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could go back to Exhibit 794,
9 please. And if we could have the lights, Madame Clerk. If we
10 could have page 20, please.
12 MS. LAMOUREUX: Madame Clerk, are you able to check
13 to see whether everything is connected?
14 THE CLERK: I believe it is. Did you un-blank the
15 screen? The power's on to the --
17 BY MS. LAMOUREUX:
18 Q And maybe while they are working on that, we can go ahead
19 and show you what's been admitted as Exhibit 557. That has
20 been admitted. It is the iPhone that was seized from Mr.
21 Thesing's residence on March 10th, 2011.
24 Q Do you recognize that phone?
25 A I do.
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Willson - Direct 8
1 Q And did you do an examination of that iPhone?
2 A Yes, I did.
3 Q And how did you do that examination?
4 A This examination was -- I used the Cellebrite UFED
5 Physical Pro on this examination and produced a report from the
6 Physical Pro, and that was, again, the updated version of the
7 Cellebrite UFED device.
8 Q And you used the -- followed the same protocols you
9 described yesterday in terms of preserving the evidence,
10 removing the SIM card?
11 A Yes, I did. I do that with every examination.
12 Q Were you able to identify what the phone number is for
13 that iPhone?
14 A Yes. This was 978-4299 on this phone.
15 Q And how did that iPhone identify itself?
16 A It was called, in the software that's on the iPhone, the
17 "Liberty Bell iPhone."
18 MS. LAMOUREUX: At this point, we have a number of
19 items to try to display to the jury and my understanding is
20 there are still some tech--
21 THE CLERK: We have someone from IT coming down.
22 MS. LAMOUREUX: Technology delays.
24 Q Maybe we could go ahead and hand you -- do you have --
25 going back to the February 2011 iPhone, do you have Exhibit 794
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Willson - Direct 9
1 there with you?
2 A It's not up on the -- here we go. Thank you.
3 Q If you could go ahead and turn to page 20.
4 THE CLERK: Madame Clerk, if we could have the
5 lights. We'll just have the witness read the text of the notes
6 to the jury.
7 (Side conversing)
8 A The page numbers on this --
9 Q Page --
10 A -- are different.
11 Q Right. And so if you look at the bottom, it should have a
12 page 20.
13 A Okay. I'm there.
14 Q And is there a line 1517?
15 A Yes. To --
16 Q To the -- sorry. What does the first line say?
17 A "To the troublemakers in government."
18 Q And then there's a semi-colon?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. If you could go ahead and read that line to the
21 bottom of the page, that'd be great.
22 A Certainly.
23 "To the troublemakers in government. Stop
24 trying to provoke an incident with the militia.
25 You've been watching -- we've been watching you
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Willson - Direct 10
1 at least as close as you've been watching us and
2 some of you are no different than the trigger-
3 happy cowboys we have to kick out of the
4 militia. You just want a reason to go win a
5 shootout. You are trying to push me into giving
6 the order to fight by threatening my sweet wife
7 and innocent son. If you fellows with the FBI
8 and the U.S. Marshals want a big old blowout, I
9 wish you would just call me and put it on the
10 calendar.
11 "Don't you think it seems a bit goofy to
12 have FBI and U.S. Marshals in on a routine
13 make-sure-a-baby-is-okay case? Nobody will
14 think that you are in the right if you go after
15 women and children, and you won't be. And if
16 you sucker the OCS goals into the middle of
17 this, that will be on your conscience, too.
18 They may be confused about whether or not
19 children are property of the state, but they
20 aren't as sinister as some of you boys in the
21 federal beehive shacking squad up from the
22 states.
23 "We don't want to attack you guys, so don't
24 attack us. If we did get cornered into a fight,
25 we'd probably lose. But for each one of us you
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Willson - Direct 11
1 kill, you'd make 1,000 people willing to kill
2 you and yours who weren't before. Do the math,
3 Colombo. Who's the real loser? You'd be better
4 off to work an ice cream truck just so you could
5 drive around making friends all day. Don't
6 be" --
7 Q If you could -- okay. Is there more?
8 A There's part of a sentence that remains.
9 Q You don't need to read the part of a sentence. Can you
10 just flip to the end and let -- let us know if there's a name
11 signing off at the end of that note?
12 A At the very bottom on page 21, on the marking here, it
13 says -- it ends with "Schaeffer Cox, husband, father, patriot,
14 590-9903" and the words "it's taped" after that number.
15 Q It's taped or tapped?
16 A It says it "taped."
17 Q It's one "p." Okay.
18 A Yes, it's one "p."
19 Q Let me go ahead and show you what's marked for
20 identification as Government Exhibit 800. You just indicated
21 that you did an examination of the Liberty Bell iPhone as well.
22 Is that correct?
23 A That's correct, yes.
24 Q And when did you do that examination? Was it in March of
25 2011?
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Willson - Direct 12
1 A It was March of 2011. I don't know the exact date.
2 Q If you look at Exhibit 800 there, do you have that in
3 front of you?
4 A I do.
5 Q Do you recognize that?
6 A Yes, and it has the extraction date and time on here. So
7 it was March 17th of 2011.
8 Q And what -- what is Exhibit 800?
9 A This is the extraction report from the UFED Physical Pro
10 on the Liberty Bell iPhone.
12 MS. LAMOUREUX: The government offers Exhibit 800.
13 MR. TRAVERSO: Can I see that? Can I see the
14 actual --
15 MS. LAMOUREUX: It should be in your binder.
16 MR. TRAVERSO: Is this the -- is this the -- are you
17 talking about this whole thing, the thing we talked about
18 yesterday?
19 MS. LAMOUREUX: No. It's Exhibit 800.
20 MR. TRAVERSO: Okay. I don't have that.
21 MS. LAMOUREUX: It should be in your binder, but we
22 can retrieve it from the witness.
24
25 THE COURT: Any objection to 800?
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Willson - Direct 13
1 MR. TRAVERSO: No, no objection, Your Honor.
2 MR. DOOLEY: No objection.
3 (Side conversing)
4 THE COURT: It may be admitted.
5 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 800 admitted)
6 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could have the lights, Madame
7 Clerk.
8 (Side conversing)
9 BY MS. LAMOUREUX:
10 Q So what are we looking at here in Government Exhibit 800?
11 A That's the extraction report of the UFED Physical Pro when
12 the examination was conducted on the Liberty Bell iPhone. And
13 it's a pretty long report, a lot more extensive than just the
14 basic UFED report.
15 Q And it indicates it's 38 pages long, is that correct, at
16 the top?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Yeah, it's 38?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. What's some of the basic -- you've just got basic
21 information here first about the iPhone. Is that what's
22 reflected on the first page?
23 A Yes. It's talking about the -- the date and time,
24 manufacturer, serial number, that sort of thing, examiner
25 name -- that's my permanent identifier with the State of
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Willson - Direct 14
1 Alaska, DAW0 -- and location, Fairbanks.
2 Q Okay.
3 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we can go ahead and jump to page
4 12.
5 Q What are we looking at there?
6 A I can't see it well on my screen, so I'm going to go to
7 page 12 in the actual report here. Okay. These are contacts
8 that were extracted from the phone with telephone numbers and
9 names.
10 Q And do you see the name of Schaeffer Cox on there?
11 A I do, in line 145. It says "Schaeffer Cox, (907)
12 590-9903." And below that, it has the words "Liberty Bell"
13 underneath his name.
14 Q So still in the same block with his name, it also says
15 "Liberty Bell"?
16 A Yes, it does.
17 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we jump now to page 31.
18 Q What are we looking at here?
19 A These are the raw data from the notes application.
20 Q Okay. So when we were looking at Exhibit 794 previously,
21 you indicated you imported the notes into a blank iPhone so
22 that the notes would appear as if they did in an iPhone; right?
23 A Correct.
24 Q What is this here?
25 A This is different. This isn't the notes displayed from a
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Willson - Direct 15
1 blank iPhone. This is the notes displayed in the actual report
2 that was built by the UFED Physical Pro software.
3 Q So when you talk about the presentation, how sometimes
4 it's difficult to read them in the UFED report, this is --
5 A Yes.
6 Q -- what you're referring to?
7 A Exactly. As you can see, it looks just like one big bunch
8 of data and it doesn't retain the same formatting and it
9 doesn't have the carriage returns that show lists and that sort
10 of thing.
11 Q The highlighting is something that we've done for
12 presentation to the jury; correct? It's not something that
13 appears in your report in the original?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q Now the notes, how many notes are there in this iPhone?
16 A Seven.
17 Q What is the first note?
18 A The first note title says "the oath, et cetera."
19 Q And there's a created and modified date?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And what are those, month and year?
22 A Those are created in December 12th of 2009, modified
23 February 21st of 2010.
24 Q On the right-hand side there, is there a packing list?
25 A There is. On the right-hand side near the bottom of that
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Willson - Direct 16
1 note, there's the words "packing list" and there's a colon and
2 then there's a -- there's a list that follows.
3 Q Are you able to read that packing list?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay.
6 A "Local uniform, tan Carhartts, black BD
7 belt, $60 uniform shirt, assault rifle with
8 front single-point sling, five mags, 100
9 rounds, sleeping bag and pad, cold weather
10 boots, gloves, et cetera. Cup and spoon,
11 towel, toothbrush. Optional but
12 recommended head lamp, overwhites, woodland
13 camo, BDUs, plate carrier with plates,
14 Kevlar helmet, CamelBak, snack food pouch,
15 mag pouches and other MOLLE gear as
16 needed."
17 Q What's the second note here?
18 A The second note is titled "prospective Sons of Gad."
19 Q And is this note similar to the note we were just looking
20 at --
21 A Yes.
22 Q -- in the iPhone that you reviewed in February of 2011?
23 A Yeah, it's very similar and the beginning of the note has
24 the same key that we observed earlier.
25 Q But these were two different iPhones. Is that correct?
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Willson - Direct 17
1 A Correct.
2 Q So there's some names included in the "prospective Sons of
3 Gad" that you went over yesterday?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Mike Anderson?
6 A Mike Anderson, Brandon Phillips, Rob Carr, Coleman Barney,
7 Ken Thesing, among others.
8 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go to the next page, please.
9 Q What's the fourth note?
10 A The fourth note has a title "Ed Davis," and then a phone
11 number.
12 Q And what does that highlighted section say?
13 A The highlighted section in the body of the note says, "We
14 hate the feds and so does the rest of the world. Death to
15 power."
16 Q What's note number five?
17 A Number five says "paid for shirt, $60" for the title.
18 Q And then note number six?
19 A Number six says "iders to do."
20 Q Is that the same "iders," spelled with an "r" --
21 A Yes.
22 Q -- that we saw in the iPhone yesterday?
23 A It looks identical except for the fact that in this list
24 it doesn't have it as a list, it has it as a paragraph because
25 the carriage returns weren't put in this report.
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Willson - Direct 18
1 Q What are some of the highlighted items on that?
2 A "Spaghetti feed, trooper protest, weapons choices, hit
3 list."
4 Q Now those are some of the same items that were included --
5 that we saw yesterday as well?
6 A Yes, they are.
7 Q What is the -- what are the dates there indicating?
8 A The "iders to do" create and modified dates are February
9 10th of 2010 and February 25th of 2010.
10 Q So the modified date is February 25th, 2010?
12 Q Is that different from the notes that we saw yesterday?
13 A Yes. Yes, that is different from the note we saw
14 yesterday.
15 Q Now below that, below the notes section, what's the next
16 section that we see?
17 A The next section says "SNS messages," and that is a basic
18 text message record.
19 Q And there's an in-box?
20 A Yes, there's an in-box and then there's a sent, and then
21 there are some other things that follow that, that are not
22 related to text messages.
23 Q So the in-box -- what does the in-box reflect?
24 A The in-box reflects messages that have been received on
25 that phone, not necessarily have been read but have been
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Willson - Direct 19
1 received.
2 Q What's the bottom line that's highlighted there?
3 A The bottom line is number four. The -- the message that
4 was received was received January 5th, 2010, and the message
5 content shows that it was an error message from a message that
6 had been sent from this phone but had been sent to an incorrect
7 number and so it was returned to the phone with an error
8 "invalid number."
9 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go to the next page.
10 Q Is that top section where you're talking about that it
11 was -- it was not delivered?
12 A Yes. The --
13 Q Okay.
14 A The highlighted portion in the message section has the
15 content of the message that was sent incorrectly.
16 Q And what is the content?
18 A The content says, "Unit number one, January 15, 16, 17.
19 Are you in?" Question mark. And then "Schaeffer, 590-9903."
20 Q So -- and then if we go to the "sent" section?
21 A Yes. In the "sent" section, we find a message that was
22 sent to a phone number, 322-5635. But in Alaska and everywhere
23 else when you send a message, you need to have all the digits
24 including the (907), and so it won't go through if you just
25 send a seven-digit message. And that's why we had the error
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Willson - Direct 20
1 message before from the incoming section. This message was
2 sent approximately two minutes before the error was received
3 and it has the same content as was reported in the error
4 message that came back.
5 Q Okay. And so the date again of the -- of the sent message
6 was what?
7 A January 5th, 2010.
8 Q And the content says, "Are you in?" And then is there --
9 there's a dash?
10 A There's a dash. Then it says "Schaeffer 590-9903."
11 Q We're going to move now to another phone. I want to show
12 you what's been already admitted as Government Exhibit 213, and
13 this was the LG AT&T phone seized from Coleman Barney's
14 residence on March 10th, 2011.
17 THE COURT: I'm sorry. Exhibit number you're --
18 MS. LAMOUREUX: 213. It's already been admitted.
20 Q Do you recognize that phone?
21 A Yes, I do.
22 Q And have you looked at the chain-of-custody tag on the
23 back of the evidence tag there?
24 A Yes, I have.
25 Q And do you recognize -- do you have -- is your signature
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Willson - Direct 21
1 on there?
2 A It is.
3 Q And what's the date of your signature on there?
4 A I received this phone on March 15th of 2011.
5 Q And do you recognize the signatures that come before you
6 in the chain?
7 A Yes, I do. There's signatures from Investigator Thompson,
8 Diane Lindner, the evidence custodian in Fairbanks, and
9 Investigator Rallo.
10 Q And who's -- Investigator Rallo is with the Troopers?
11 A Yeah, he works for the Alaska Bureau of Investigation in
12 Fairbanks.
13 Q Did you do an examination of that LG phone?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q And what tools did you use for that examination?
16 A I used the Cellebrite UFED device.
17 Q And did you follow the same protocols you discussed
18 earlier?
19 A Yes, I did.
20 Q What is the phone number of that phone?
21 A I'd have to look at the report to refresh my memory,
22 the --
23 Q Okay.
24 A -- UFED report.
25 Q I do have you reports for the LG phone reports.
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Willson - Direct 22
1 MS. LAMOUREUX: For the record, I'm going to provide
2 Sergeant Willson with his examination reports from Exhibit 213.
3 A Thank you. The phone number for this phone was (907)
4 978-1689.
5 Q And did you generate a report when you did that
6 examination?
7 A Yes, I did.
8 Q A UFED report. Is that what you call it?
9 A Yes, actually, I did. I actually generated two, one for
10 the SIM that had been removed and one for the phone itself.
11 Q Let me go ahead and show you what's been identified as
12 Government Exhibits 782 and 783. Do you recognize those items?
13 A Yes. These are from the UFED reports that were
14 constructed after the examination of this phone.
15 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 782 and 783 identified)
16 MS. LAMOUREUX: The government offers Exhibit 782 and
17 783.
18 MR. TRAVERSO: No objection, Your Honor.
20 MS. HADEN: No objection.
21 THE COURT: 782 and 783 may be admitted.
22 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 782 and 783 admitted)
23 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could please look at 782 first.
25 Q What are we looking at here in Government Exhibit 782?
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Willson - Direct 23
1 A This is the portion of the report that lists the contacts
2 that were on the phone. The address book, also described as.
3 Q So if we go to page 2, we see contact entries for Lonnie
4 Vernon, Sarah, Dave, and Schaeffer Cox?
5 A Yes, that's correct.
6 MS. LAMOUREUX: And if we go to the next page.
7 Q We see contacts for Maria and Bill Rensel and Adam
8 Marchbanks?
9 A Yes.
10 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go to page 5.
11 Q We see contacts for Ken Thesing and Lonnie Vernon?
12 A Yes.
14 Q We see a contact for Sarah Barney?
15 A Yes.
17 Q We see a contact for J.R. Olson at the top there?
18 A Yeah.
20 Q We see contacts for Gary Brockman and Joe Nichols?
21 A Yes, we do.
22 Q Okay.
23 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's look at Exhibit 783.
24 Q Can you explain what Government Exhibit 783 is?
25 A These are excerpts from the text messaging section of the
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Willson - Direct 24
1 report for this phone. Reports that include all the text
2 message can be very cumbersome sometimes and sometimes
3 thousands of messages, and this is a select portion of that.
4 Q So we've culled those specific messages out for
5 presentation to the jury; correct?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q These aren't all of the text messages that were on the
8 phone from Barney's house; right?
9 A No, it's not.
10 Q And can you explain what the different columns mean?
11 What's -- what's the first column?
12 A The first column is how the report was constructed,
13 placing all of these in a sequential order according to the
14 chronology, the date that they were in. And as you can see,
15 the date section shows that they're -- they're chronologically
16 laid out.
17 Q The -- what's the second column there, the number column?
18 A That's the phone number associated with that. If it's an
19 incoming phone number, then it's where it's coming from. If
20 it's an outgoing phone number, then it's where it was sent.
21 Q Where -- okay. And the name?
22 A The name is when there's a list in the address book and it
23 has that name associated with that phone number. The UFED
24 report puts those together so that the name Schaeffer Cox in,
25 for example, the very first one, is associated with that phone
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Willson - Direct 25
1 number on this phone, so it places that in the phone -- or in
2 the report so that -- for easy reference for the person
3 reviewing the report.
4 Q And then there's a date?
5 A That's the date that that sent message in this case was
6 received.
7 Q And the time as well?
8 A The time, yes, exactly, and that is Alaska time there.
9 Q And then there's a status column?
10 A Yes, to indicate whether or not that message had been read
11 by a user of the phone.
12 Q What -- what's the folder column?
13 A The folder is whether it's the in-box, the out-box,
14 drafts, that sort of thing -- different places on the phone.
15 Q And the type?
16 A Incoming versus outgoing.
17 Q And then the text?
18 A And that's the content of the actual message.
19 Q That's the substance?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. Let's look at the first line there. It indicates
22 an incoming message of December 9th, 2010. And who's it coming
23 from?
24 A It's coming from Schaeffer Cox at (907) 590-9903.
25 Q And what's the text say?
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Willson - Direct 26
1 A The text says:
2 "I'm going to court Friday at 3:30 over a
3 weapons charge. It would be interesting
4 considering the recent discovery that the Alaska
5 Court System is not the lawful judiciary, but a
6 privately owned for-profit company, DUNS
7 360704381. We have lots of evidence, they
8 better have lots of answers. I'm being their
9 freedom guinea pig, so you need to come on down
10 and bring your friends so they can't pull any
11 sneaky tricks because no one is watching. See
12 you there, Schaeffer."
13 Q A few days later, there's another incoming text from
14 Schaeffer. What does that one say?
15 A It says, "We need to meet as soon as you can. Major T and
16 I will work around your schedule."
17 Q And a couple of days after that, another incoming text
18 from Schaeffer Cox?
19 A Yes. It says:
20 "We are going to go to the calendar call at
21 court at 8:15 a.m. to serve them criminal
22 complaints. We are looking for around four
23 guys. So far, we got me, Ken, Joe, Judge
24 Bartels, and you would round it up nicely if you
25 can make it."
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Willson - Direct 27
1 Q The following day, there's another incoming message from
2 Schaeffer Cox. What's that one say?
3 A It says, "Don't know. Are you at the court?"
4 Q And -- and a few minutes later, what's the next one say?
5 A "Hide and watch. We are on our way, just need to make --
6 print some stuff."
7 Q And the next day, there's another message from Schaeffer
8 Cox. What's that one say?
9 A "Okay. Well, that's all right. The spin
10 doctors down at the News-Miner didn't help
11 us any today, but I still think lots of
12 people see through it anyhow. It's no huge
13 rush. We just need to make a plan and get
14 it done. I don't think we will have any
15 trouble setting up a pow-wow. I don't mind
16 calling him."
17 Q At the bottom line, there is a message on January 8th,
18 2011 coming from Schaeffer Cox. What does that one say?
19 A It says, "Get info on how to get yourself out of the
20 statutory system and back under common law on the Assembly Post
21 call, Monday 5:00 p.m. Alaska time." It gives a number, then a
22 PIN number. "Pass this text on to all you care about."
23 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go to the next page.
24 Q The first line indicates there's a message coming from --
25 from who?
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Willson - Direct 28
1 A From J.R. Olson.
2 Q And what does that one say?
3 A It says, "Hey, Coleman, I'll be on the conference call.
4 Also, I will be on there Sat to file my decree of political
5 will. Should I be in my uniform for the trial on Sunday
6 evening?"
7 Q And then on February 7th, 2011, there's a message from
8 Schaeffer Cox. What does that one say?
9 A "FBI stormed a Washington restaurant today -- yesterday
10 looking for Kelly Russell. He wasn't there, but now we can't
11 get a hold of him. Prayer call at 2 o'clock Alaska time." It
12 gives a number and a PIN number.
13 Q A few days later, on February 10th, 2011, another message
14 from Schaeffer Cox?
15 A "Looking to show up to court Monday with a common law
16 judgment and an FTC complaint for if they move forward. May
17 need some guys for security, et cetera."
18 Q And the next day, what's that incoming message from
19 Schaeffer Cox say?
20 A It says, "Nix that last message. I'm not playing anymore.
21 But let's send a few recon guys on Monday and make the rest a
22 little extra vigilant."
23 Q I want to go ahead and show you what's already been
24 admitted as Government Exhibit 149, which was the iPhone found
25 in Schaeffer Cox's living room on March 10th, 2011.
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Willson - Direct 29
3 Q Do you recognize that iPhone?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Is that iPhone different from the other iPhones that you
6 examined?
7 A Yes. It -- it was found in a different location and
8 it's -- it's black, actually.
9 Q Do you -- have you looked at the evidence tag on that
10 phone?
11 A Yes, I have.
12 Q And is your signature on there?
13 A It is, in two places.
14 Q And the second signature of yours, what --
15 A That was --
16 Q -- date is that?
17 A -- March 15th, 2011.
18 Q And the signatures that appear before your name, do you
19 recognize those signatures?
20 A Yeah. That's Investigator Joshua Trigg of the Alaska
21 State Troopers, Alaska Bureau of Investigation, in Fairbanks.
22 Q Did you do an examination of that iPhone?
23 A I did.
24 Q What steps did you take?
25 A I removed it from the network by removing the SIM card,
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Willson - Direct 30
1 and then I placed it on the UFED device to extract the data.
2 Q And did you prepare a report of your examination?
3 A Yes, I did.
4 Q Let me go ahead and show you what we've marked as
5 Government Exhibit 790. Do you recognize that item?
6 A Yes. These are text messages from this phone.
8 MS. LAMOUREUX: The government offers Exhibit 790.
10 MR. TRAVERSO: No objection.
11 THE COURT: 790 may be admitted.
13 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could go ahead and show that to
14 the jury, please.
16 Q What are we looking at in Government Exhibit 790?
17 A These are three of the text messages from the phone.
18 Again, these are not the entire selection of text messages.
19 And it has all the same columns except for the last one.
20 There's an additional column where the UFED identified that
21 these text messages had been deleted from the phone, but it was
22 able to recover them.
23 Q We've got the first message is outgoing?
24 A Yes, sent. And it has a date and time. It says "GMT,"
25 which means that you have to subtract nine hours to get the
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Willson - Direct 31
1 actual time on that one.
2 Q Okay. So Alaska time is nine hours behind GMT?
3 A Yeah. I forgot to set it on this exam.
4 Q Okay. So --
5 A You have to set it for the exams.
6 Q -- if we back out nine hours, what -- what time was this
7 sent in Alaska time?
8 A This was sent just after midnight on 11/24/2010, at
9 midnight and 50 seconds.
10 Q So the night of November 23rd, but --
11 A Correct.
12 Q -- midnight of the 24th?
13 A Just after midnight.
14 Q Okay. And this is outgoing. Who's it going to?
15 A This is sent to the person in the actual contact list in
16 the iPhone, listed as Schaeffer Cox, at (907) 590-9903.
17 Q So this phone isn't Schaeffer Cox's phone?
18 A No, this phone was sending a message to Schaeffer Cox's
19 phone.
20 Q Okay. And what's that first text say?
21 A It says, "Do we need a watch tonight?"
22 Q And then about 26 minutes later, there's --
23 A Correct.
24 Q -- a response?
25 A And the incoming phone, Schaeffer Cox's phone, says,
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Willson - Direct 32
1 "Well, yes, but we have 10 guys in the house. If we all keep a
2 gun close, that is enough, I think. AR-15 at the top of the
3 steps with a Hornet's Nest."
4 Q And then there's a following message about a minute after
5 that?
6 A Yes. Sent back to Schaeffer Cox that says, "Glock under
7 my pillow. Wake me if you need me."
8 Q Let me go ahead and show you what's already been admitted
9 as Government Exhibit 152, which are CDs seized from Schaeffer
10 Cox's house on March 10th, 2011.
14 MS. LAMOUREUX: Please go ahead and take him Exhibit
15 152 and Exhibits 821 through 828.
16 Q Looking at Government Exhibit 152, the CDs, do you
17 recognize those?
18 A Yes, I do.
19 Q And did you conduct an examination of those CDs?
20 A Yes, I did.
21 Q Is there an evidence tag on that item?
22 A There is, on the back.
23 Q And is your signature on there?
24 A Yes, it is.
25 Q On what day?
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Willson - Direct 33
1 A 3/15/2011.
2 Q And do you recognize the signatures that precede yours?
3 A Yes. Investigator Joshua Trigg and again mine, when I had
4 originally seized this item.
6 as Government Exhibit 157. 157 is a photo.
9 Q Do you recognize that photo?
10 A Yes, I do.
11 Q What do you see in there?
12 A This is a portion of the sort of den off of the master
13 bedroom in the residence on Scenic Loop, and on the table there
14 or the drawer there are several CDs on the top, and those are
15 the same CDs we have here in front of me.
16 Q The CDs with the skull and cross bones?
18 Q And that's what you examined?
19 A It is.
20 Q Can you explain what steps you took during your
21 examination of those CDs?
22 A Yes. I took the devices and I put them in an examination
23 computer, both of the CDs, one at a time, and I made a copy of
24 them, bit for bit, and verified that copy, and then I examined
25 the copy rather than the CDs themselves. I have both hardware
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Willson - Direct 34
1 and software write blocking installed on that computer and no
2 changes were made to the discs in the process. And then I did
3 an examination of the individual CDs, and it was very quick and
4 easier. There were not that many files on them compared to,
5 like, a computer, so I didn't have to import it into Forensic
6 Toolkit software to do a comprehensive analysis. They're very
7 apparent --
8 Q Let --
9 A -- just by looking at the CDs themselves, or the copies of
10 the CDs.
11 Q Let me go ahead and have you look at Exhibits 821 through
12 828. Did you have an opportunity to review those exhibits
13 prior to coming to court today?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q And can you briefly identify them for the court, please?
16 A Yes. 821 through 826 are all files that I found on one of
17 the discs, and then the last two items here, 827 and 828, are
18 the printouts I actually made of the contents of those discs,
19 the actual windows that show all the files that are in there.
20 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 821 through 828 identified)
21 MS. LAMOUREUX: The government offers Exhibits 821
22 through 828.
24 MS. HADEN: No objection.
25 MR. TRAVERSO: No objection.
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Willson - Direct 35
1 THE COURT: They may be admitted.
2 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 821 through 828 admitted)
3 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go ahead and start with
4 Government Exhibit 827.
5 (Side conversing)
6 BY MS. LAMOUREUX:
8 A This is -- and I made it as big as possible and still it
9 seems like it's a little bit hard to read. My apologies. But
10 this is a file list of all the files that were actually on disc
11 one of the two, the one I designated in the software when I
12 recorded them on the examination computer as disc one. And
13 every page of this -- and I believe there are six on the first
14 one in 827 -- these are all as I'm scrolling through the list
15 of quite a few files on the CD. These are all files that were
16 found in that folder, the one folder on that CD.
17 Q And do they all have roughly the same date modified and
18 date created?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Do they --
21 A Yeah. It starts in the first part of 2006.
22 Q So --
23 A January/February time frame.
24 Q -- those are the two middle columns, where it says
25 "February 2006"?
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1 A That's correct. And as you can see, as it was burning, as
2 the computer was burning the disc, it puts down the
3 date-created time sequentially, so you can see there's
4 different times because it takes a while to burn a CD. As we
5 all know, sometimes it can take quite a while. But you can see
6 the date it was actually created on the disc right from that
7 list.
8 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could go ahead and enlarge just
9 the name column, if we're able to. That's great.
10 Q So these -- this is the directory file listing. Is that
11 right?
13 Q And so right at the top there, what's -- what's the second
14 file that we see?
15 A The second file says "firearms AR-15 silencer."
16 Q And then below that?
17 A And below that, it says "firearms AR-15 to M16 conversion
18 book."
19 Q And then there's a number of files named "blueprint"?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And those are relating to firearms?
22 A Yes. Almost everything in this is related to firearms.
23 Q Okay.
24 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could just scroll down through
25 those.
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Willson - Direct 37
1 Q Now at the bottom here, there's a blueprint for an SKS
2 drop-in full auto sear?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And then at the very bottom, the last two lines refer to
5 "Sten submachine guns"?
6 A Correct.
8 Q These are more files that are located on the CD?
9 A Correct.
10 Q More blueprints relating to firearms?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And then there's a number of documents titled "full auto
13 conversion"?
14 A Yes.
15 Q For a variety of firearms?
16 A Many different types.
17 Q Okay.
18 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could just scroll down, please.
19 Q Then at the bottom, we get to a section "improvised"?
20 A Yes. There are several items -- one, two, three, four --
21 four items improvised.
22 Q There's an "improvised silencer" document?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And then below that, skipping one, is an "Ingram
25 MAC-10/MAC-11 suppressor" document?
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Willson - Direct 38
1 A Yes.
3 Q These are more files on the CD?
4 A Yes. Manuals.
5 Q Manuals relating to a number of firearms?
6 A Yeah.
7 Q And do these all have approximately the same created and
8 modified dates?
9 A Yes.
10 Q In 2006?
11 A Yeah, they're all within about less than an hour of each
12 other.
13 Q Okay.
14 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could just scroll down through
15 the manuals.
16 A Correction. It's a little bit more than hour. It look a
17 little longer, within two hours on most of these, and some
18 later, but all in the same day.
19 Q Okay.
20 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could go to the next page.
21 Q Still looking at more manuals on the file [sic]?
22 A Yeah, there are a lot of manuals.
23 Q On that CD. Okay.
24 MS. LAMOUREUX: Keep scrolling down, please.
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Willson - Direct 39
1 Q There's a manual for "Sten submachine guns"?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay.
4 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could go to the next page.
5 Q At the bottom there, there's a document called "tornado
6 tube silencer"?
7 A Yes, "firearm tornado tube silencer."
8 Q And if we scroll down a little bit below that, there's
9 something -- a document about legally converting the Uzi to
10 full automatic?
11 A Yes, full auto conversion.
12 MS. LAMOUREUX: And if we keep scrolling down. Okay.
13 If we could go to the next page, and if we could scroll down.
14 Q At the bottom, what's the -- the last folder?
15 A The last item, second from the bottom item, is "the
16 silencer cookbook .22 rimfire silencers."
17 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go to Exhibit 828.
20 A This is the second of the two discs and its contents.
21 Q So this is directory file listings of another CD that's
22 still within Exhibit 152?
23 A Yeah, it's -- there were two of them that I did an
24 examination on and -- and copied the data from and then
25 reviewed.
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Willson - Direct 40
1 Q And again, what are the dates of the modified or created?
2 A Again, this is the 1st of February 2006 --
3 Q For --
4 A -- and all of these were burned within a few hours of each
5 other.
6 Q For both date modified and date created?
7 A Correct.
8 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could enlarge the name column,
9 please.
11 Q The third item down?
12 A "Anarchist Cookbook, 4.14," for the version number.
13 MS. LAMOUREUX: And if we keep scrolling down. And
14 if we could go to the next page.
15 Q Again, these are a continuation of the files on that CD?
16 A Yes, same CD.
17 Q Okay.
18 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we scroll down, please.
19 Q There's a file named "improvised lock picks"?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay.
22 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could just keep scrolling down.
23 A And the .RAR is -- it's just an archive. It's like a zip
24 file. It's how it was stored on the disc.
25 Q Thank you.
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Willson - Direct 41
1 MS. LAMOUREUX: Okay. If we could go to the next
2 page. If we could scroll down, please.
3 Q There's some --
4 MS. LAMOUREUX: If you'd keep scrolling a little bit
5 more, please. Right there is great.
6 Q There's some -- it looks like U.S. Military material
7 maybe?
8 A Yeah, U.S. Marine Corps. Appear to be manuals of some
9 sort.
10 MR. TRAVERSO: Your Honor, I'm going to object to
11 everything going back to 2006. The relevant time period here
12 is 2009. Anything before that is irrelevant.
13 THE COURT: The objection's overruled.
15 Q Let me go ahead and show you --
16 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's move to Government Exhibit 821.
18 A This is one of the files that I found on the disc. I
19 could actually quote the exact -- exact file name if I can look
20 at my notes. I independently reviewed this already and saw
21 that it was on the list. This was actually printed out. I
22 printed out one of these pages in my report.
23 Q Let me go ahead and hand you the notes that you made on
24 the directory file listings which have previously been provided
25 to defense counsel.
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Willson - Direct 42
1 (Side conversing)
2 MS. HADEN: I'm sorry, counsel. What -- what exhibit
3 number is that?
4 MS. LAMOUREUX: That is not an exhibit number. This
5 is --
6 MS. HADEN: Okay.
7 MS. LAMOUREUX: -- his Jencks material, the notes
8 that he made regarding the corresponding files on the
9 directory.
10 MS. HADEN: Thank you.
11 MS. LAMOUREUX: Mm hmm (affirmative).
13 Q So this document was taken from the CD found in Schaeffer
14 Cox's house?
15 A Yes, it was. And more specifically, it was the file named
16 "firearms, full auto conversion, AK-47 rifle."
17 MS. LAMOUREUX: Are you able to enlarge the bottom
18 notice there?
19 Q What does that say?
20 A It says, "Notice. Published for the exclusive use of
21 governmental agencies and Class II manufacturers."
22 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go to page 3 of this manual,
23 please.
24 Q There's an overview section on the right-hand side. Do
25 you see that overview --
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Willson - Direct 43
1 A I do.
2 Q -- conversion?
3 A Yes.
4 Q What does that say below that?
5 A It says "overview of conversion to select fire."
6 Q No, I'm sorry, where it says "to legally manufacture."
7 A Yes.
8 "To legally manufacture a semi-automatic AK-47
9 or AK-M, a minimum of two and sometimes three
10 things must be done in the following order.
11 One, secure proper license to manufacture a
12 machine gun from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
13 and Firearms in Washington, D.C. This is
14 necessary for governmental agencies, as well as
15 manufacturers."
16 Q Okay.
17 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go ahead and go to the next
18 page.
19 Q On the lower right-hand side, it says "since May 19th,
20 1986."
21 A "Since May 19, 1986, it has been illegal to
22 make/manufacture an automatic firearm except for one or more of
23 the above three purposes. Therefore, be advised that if you
24 should manufacture or make an automatic" --
25 MS. LAMOUREUX: Go ahead to the next page.
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Willson - Direct 44
1 A -- "firearm without proper license and approval, you are
2 committing a felony and are subject to fine and imprisonment."
3 Q Okay.
4 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go to the next page.
5 (Side conversing)
6 Q There's instructions now?
7 A Yes, instructions, including a pin plate location for
8 drilling.
9 Q Have you reviewed the other pages in the manual?
10 A I have.
11 Q And are they generally sort of a how-to manual?
12 A Yes. This is how to alter the AK-47.
13 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go to Government Exhibit 822.
15 A 822 is the file "firearms, full auto conversion, Colt
16 AR-15 rifle."
18 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could enlarge the third
19 paragraph, please. Oh, actually the third and fourth. My
20 apology.
21 Q Can you go ahead and read those?
22 A "The only complaint I've ever heard about
23 the lightning link is it converts the
24 firearm to full auto only. I can't see
25 that's a problem. No one says you have to
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Willson - Direct 45
1 hold the trigger down until the magazine's
2 empty. I found with a little practice it's
3 easy to fire two-shot bursts using the
4 link. Also, keep in mind that it takes
5 only about 10 seconds to install the
6 lightning link in a standard unaltered
7 AR-15 and only about six seconds to remove
8 it. Going from semi-auto to full and back
9 to semi is only a matter of seconds."
11 Q What's that describing there?
12 A It's describing the -- well, the manual's showing the
13 actual mechanism that's being used to make it full auto, and it
14 has some descriptions underneath on how to construct it --
15 Q Okay.
16 A -- and how it's used.
18 Q There's more directions there?
19 A And a diagram with measurements.
20 MS. LAMOUREUX: And the next page.
21 A A top view and side view of the device.
22 MS. LAMOUREUX: And then the next page.
24 A Again, more measurements.
25 Q And then what's it say in that test fire section down
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Willson - Direct 46
1 below at the bottom?
2 A It says:
3 "Load two rounds in the magazine. The first
4 will fire when you pull the trigger, the second
5 will fire automatically. Check the brass for
6 any problems. If all is well, load five rounds
7 and fire. If all goes well, load her up and let
8 her rip."
11 A 823 was the file "firearms, full auto conversion, SKS and
12 Variant assault rifle."
13 Q On the left-hand side, there's a box there.
14 MS. LAMOUREUX: Can you enlarge that box, please.
15 Q What does that say?
16 A It says:
17 "Can an unlicensed person -- unlicensed person
18 make a machine gun? Generally, no. But in the
19 event that documentation can be provided, along
20 with the application to make a machine gun,
21 which establishes that the weapon is being made
22 for distribution to, one, the United States or
23 any department or agency thereof, or, two, a
24 state or department agency or political
25 subdivision thereof, then the individual will be
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Willson - Direct 47
1 permitted to make a machine gun. Any machine
2 gun is subject to the NFA and the possession of
3 an unregistered machine gun could subject the
4 possessor to criminal prosecution."
5 (Side conversing)
6 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go to page 7, please.
7 Q Is there another warning there on the left-hand side?
8 A Yes, there is.
9 Q If you'd go ahead and read that, please.
10 A "Warning. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
11 and Firearms has ruled that it is illegal
12 to modify any firearm so that it will fire
13 automatically or to make parts which will
14 make it fully automatic without their prior
15 approval. Note, this booklet is offered
16 for its educational and entertainment
17 purposes only. We are not responsible, nor
18 are we liable, for the illegal
19 modifications of any firearm."
20 Q Have you reviewed the other pages in this manual?
21 A I have.
22 Q And can you generally describe what it's about?
23 A Again, it is like the other, giving a step-by-step how-to
24 in -- in modifying this firearm.
25 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go to Government Exhibit 825.
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Willson - Direct 48
1 Q What are we looking at in 825?
2 A 825 is the file "firearms, full auto conversion, Heckler &
3 Koch HK-91, SR-93, 94, SP-89, et cetera rifle." That was on
4 disc one.
5 Q Okay. So this is another document on --
6 A It is.
7 Q -- converting to full auto?
8 A It is.
10 Q It's talking more about steps there; right?
11 A Step-by-step on assembly order of the semi-auto and full
12 auto at the bottom there.
13 Q Okay. So at the bottom, it says "assembly order HK-3
14 position full auto"?
15 A Correct. And then --
16 MS. LAMOUREUX: And then if we --
17 A -- the next page has another set of steps on the full
18 auto --
19 Q Okay.
20 A -- adjustments. There it is.
21 Q Okay.
23 Q What is this document?
24 A This was on the disc as "firearms improvised silencer."
25 Q What does that first paragraph say?
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Willson - Direct 49
1 A This says, "The following instructions can be used to
2 construct a simple, cheap and effective silencer for a
3 .22" -- long rif- -- "LR rifle or pistol. This design can be
4 adapted to function for other firearm calibers. However, a
5 threaded barrel silencer junction is recommended for cartridges
6 more powerful than the 22 LR."
7 Q And then there's a list of materials required?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And is PVC tubing on there?
10 A It is one, two, three down -- at least 12 inches of
11 one-and-a-half-inch PVC tubing.
13 A Additional steel wool and sandpaper.
14 Q And then there's a section on construction?
15 A Correct.
16 Q And there's some directions included?
17 A Yes.
19 Q More directions?
20 A More directions and --
21 Q Okay.
22 A -- a diagram.
23 MS. LAMOUREUX: Next page.
24 A More directions and step-by-step how to do this.
25 Q Okay. So that's what the following pages contain?
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Willson - Direct 50
1 A The entire document is about that subject.
2 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go to page 7, please.
3 Q Can you go ahead and read those two paragraphs?
4 A Certainly.
5 "Paint the finished silencer flat black and
6 attach it to your weapon. Proper alignment can
7 be ensured by using a hose clamp around the
8 barrel extension behind the front sight. Test
9 as described in silenced .22 LR weapons. This
10 silencer can be counted on to function for over
11 300 rounds before it will be necessary to open
12 it up and re-pack it with new steel wool and
13 lithium grease."
15 Q What are we looking at there?
16 A This was on the disc as file name "firearms blueprint,
17 Sten Mark III submachine gun receiver bond."
18 Q So this is one of the blueprints that was on the CD?
19 A It is.
20 Q Can you read the words below the diagram?
21 A It says, "These plans are for educational and
22 entertainment purposes only. All NFA laws apply."
23 Q Okay.
24 MS. LAMOUREUX: I have no other questions.
25 MR. TRAVERSO: No questions.
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51
1 MR. DOOLEY: No questions.
2 MS. HADEN: No questions.
3 THE COURT: You may be excused, Sergeant Willson.
4 (Witness excused)
5 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
6 (Side conversing)
7 MR. SKROCKI: Maybe a stretch break for the jury just
8 for a moment?
9 THE COURT: Yeah. By all means, stand and -- stand
10 and stretch and wake up. Pour a little water down your back if
11 that helps.
13 (Audio Server, Log No. 9:31:27)
14 (This Portion Not Requested)
15 (Audio Server, Log No. 3:08:56)
16 (Jury in)
17 MS. LAMOUREUX: The government calls Investigator
18 Dunford.
20 THE COURT: If you'll come up to the witness stand,
21 please, and just enter the witness stand, and stand and face
22 the jury and the courtroom, and raise your right hand and be
23 sworn.
24 THE WITNESS: Okay.
25 RAMIN DUNFORD, PLAINTIFF'S WITNESS, SWORN
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Dunford - Direct 52
1 THE WITNESS: I do.
2 THE COURT: Be seated, please.
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION
4 BY MS. LAMOUREUX:
5 Q Good afternoon.
6 A Good afternoon.
7 Q For the record, could you please spell your full name and
8 spell your last name?
9 A Ramin Dunford, D-u-n-f-o-r-d.
10 Q Where do you work?
11 A I work here in Anchorage with the Alaska State Troopers.
12 Q What's your current title?
13 A I'm an investigator.
14 Q Invest--
15 THE COURT: Talk right into that microphone, if you
16 would.
17 THE WITNESS: You bet.
18 THE COURT: Yeah.
20 Q Investigator Dunford, how long have you been with the
21 Alaska State Troopers?
22 A It'll be 11 years this August.
23 Q And prior to that, what did you do prior to joining the
24 Alaska State Troopers?
25 A I worked in the technology industry, a system
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Dunford - Direct 53
1 administrator.
2 Q And what is your current role within the Alaska State
3 Troopers?
4 A I work in the Technical Crimes Unit, computer forensics.
5 Q So what are your current duties as a computer forensics
6 examiner?
7 A Well, one of the things I do is I work on computers that
8 come in. I -- I image them, analyze them, prepare reports
9 based on what I find.
10 Q What experience do you have in computer forensics
11 examinations?
12 A Well, I've been working in this unit for about three
13 years. I've been through the Secret Service class in Alabama.
14 I also have a current certification with Access Data as an
15 examiner.
16 Q Approximately how many computer forensic examinations have
17 you conducted?
18 A I couldn't tell. A number, a good number.
19 Q Did you, yourself, conduct examinations in this
20 investigation?
21 A I did.
23 as Government Exhibit 212, which is a MacBook laptop found in
24 the upstairs of Coleman Barney's residence on March 10th, 2011.
T AMSCRIPTS ! (813) 428-5321

Dunford - Direct 54
2 Q Do you recognize that item?
3 A I do.
4 Q If you could go ahead and look at that chain-of-custody
5 tag and let me know if your name appears on that tag.
6 A It is.
7 Q And at what -- what date?
8 A On the 16th, March 16th, it shows that I took the item
9 from the TCU, which we use as temporary storage for the
10 Technical Crimes Unit.
11 Q And was a forensic image made of that computer?
12 A It was.
13 Q Did you make that forensic image?
14 A I believe so. I'd have to review my report to make sure,
15 but I believe I did.
16 Q Okay. Would it refresh your recollection if I showed you
17 that --
18 A Yes.
19 Q -- report? You've got a number of reports here.
20 A It would be in conjunction with 21393, 11-21393. Thank
21 you. Yes, I did image this and process this -- this item.
22 Q When you made the image, were you able to verify that the
23 image was a mirror copy of the actual computer?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And then did you process the forensic image?
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Dunford - Direct 55
1 A Yes.
2 Q And what did you do with the original computer?
3 A Placed it back in our temporary evidence storage.
4 Q And did you conduct a forensic examination of that
5 computer?
6 A I don't believe I did. I'd have to check. No, I did not.
8 as Government Exhibit 279, which is the Dell tower that was
9 found in Mr. Vernon's residence on March 10th, 2011.
13 A Yes.
14 Q And is your name on that chain-of-custody tag?
15 A It is.
16 Q Was a forensic image made of that computer?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did you make the forensic image of the computer?
19 A I believe I did. Again, I'd have to review my report to
20 make sure.
21 Q Okay.
22 A This is 21392.
23 Q And for the record, I've handed you your report from case
24 21392.
25 A Yes. This is Sergeant DeGraaf's.
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Dunford - Direct 56
1 (Side conversing)
2 Q My apologies. I just pulled it out of the wrong file.
3 A Thank you.
4 Q Do you recognize that as your report?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. Did you do a forensic image of that computer?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And then did you confirm that the forensic image was a
9 mirror copy of the original?
10 A I did.
11 Q And then did you process that forensic image?
12 A I did.
13 Q And what did you do with the original computer?
14 A Placed it back into temporary storage.
15 Q And did you conduct a forensic examination of that
16 computer?
17 A No.
19 as Government Exhibit 189, which is the Toshiba, which was
20 found in the upstairs of Coleman Barney's residence on March
21 10th, 2011.
24 Q And let me know if you recognize that item.
25 A I do.
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Dunford - Direct 57
1 Q Can you look at the chain-of-custody tag and let us know
2 if your name appears on it?
3 A It does.
4 Q On what date?
5 A On the 15th -- 16th.
6 Q Of --
7 A Of March, 2011.
9 A It was.
10 Q Did you make that forensic image?
11 A I believe so, yes.
12 Q And did you process that computer?
13 A Again, I'd have to review my report to make sure.
14 Q Let me go ahead and hand you your report from case 21393.
15 A Okay.
16 Q Does that refresh your recollection?
17 A Yes, it does. I did image and process this computer.
18 Q And then did you conduct the forensic examination of that
19 computer?
20 A I did not.
21 Q Did you conduct other forensic examinations of other
22 computers seized in this investigation?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Let me go ahead and show you what's been admitted as
25 Government Exhibit 555, which is the Dell that was seized from
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Dunford - Direct 58
1 Mr. Thesing's residence on March 10th, 2011.
5 A Yes.
6 Q And was a -- is your name on that chain-of-custody tag?
7 A It is.
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did you make the forensic image?
11 A My report. Can I look through my report --
12 Q Okay.
13 A -- to refresh my memory?
14 Q I've got it right here to refresh your recollection. It's
15 your report from case number 21395, for the record.
17 A Thank you. Okay. In this particular case, I did not
18 create a forensic image. I processed this drive and then --
19 Q Did someone else in your -- in the Technical Crimes Unit
20 make the forensic image of that computer?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Is that fairly typical in the Technical Crimes Unit?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay. So somebody else made an image. And then did you
25 process that forensic image?
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Dunford - Direct 59
1 A I did.
2 Q And then did you analyze that computer?
3 A I did.
4 Q What tools did you use to conduct your examination of that
5 computer?
6 A Forensic Tool -- Forensic Toolkit.
7 Q Let me go ahead and show you what's been identified as
8 Government Exhibits 801 through 811.
9 (Side conversing)
10 THE COURT: What number again, please?
11 MS. LAMOUREUX: 801 through 811.
13 Q And if you could please just review those items and let me
14 know if you recognize them.
15 A Okay. I do.
16 Q Did you review them prior to coming to court today?
17 A I have.
18 Q And can you generally describe what they are?
19 A These were items that I had bookmarked -- in Forensic
20 Toolkit, you can bookmark items of interest for review later,
21 and these are all items that I bookmarked upon review of that
22 laptop.
23 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 801 through 811 identified)
24 MS. LAMOUREUX: The government offers Exhibits 801
25 through 811.
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Dunford - Direct 60
1 (Side conversing)
2 MS. HADEN: If I could have one moment, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Yeah.
4 MS. HADEN: Your Honor, I object to number 811.
5 THE COURT: Yeah, that's already been refused and has
6 not been further identified.
7 MS. LAMOUREUX: If I can inquire further.
8 BY MS. LAMOUREUX:
9 Q Turning specifically to Exhibit 811 --
10 A Yes.
11 Q -- Investigator Dunford, without going into too much
12 detail about it, is there a page included -- is it -- is it a
13 two-page exhibit right now? If you pull it out of the plastic
14 sleeve.
16 MS. HADEN: Your Honor, I'm not quite sure the
17 position of the government's monitor again -- issue.
18 MR. SKROCKI: We're totally fine. We have screens on
19 it. You can't see a thing.
20 MS. HADEN: Okay. Thank you.
22 A Okay.
23 Q What does page 2 of that exhibit tell you?
24 A It tells when this file was created, modified, and last
25 accessed. It tells me where this file was located when I found
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Dunford - Direct 61
1 it on the drive.
2 Q And it tells you the name?
3 A It tells me the name of the particular file.
4 Q And it tells you the type of file it is?
5 A Yes, it does.
6 Q And you seized that off of Mr. Thesing's computer?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Pursuant to a state search warrant?
9 A Yes.
11 MS. LAMOUREUX: The government offers 801 through
12 811.
13 MS. HADEN: Same objection to 811. I don't think the
14 information --
15 THE COURT: All right. Any other objections?
16 MR. DOOLEY: Same objection to 811.
17 MR. TRAVERSO: We'll join as to Exhibit 811, Your
18 Honor, join the objection.
19 THE COURT: All right. 811 is -- will still be
20 refused. 801, 802, 803, 804, 80--
21 MS. LAMOUREUX: Your Honor, may we be heard on --
22 THE COURT: Wait a minute.
23 MS. LAMOUREUX: -- Exhibit 811?
24 THE COURT: Not now. I think you offered 801 through
25 811, but I don't have any 805 noted in my exhibit book you gave
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Dunford - Direct 62
1 me. Anyway --
2 MS. LAMOUREUX: That --
3 THE COURT: -- let me start again. 801, 802, 803,
4 804, 806, 807, 808, 809 and 80 -- and 810 may be admitted.
5 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 801, 802, 803, 804,
6 806, 806, 808, 809, and 810 admitted)
7 THE COURT: And what about 805?
8 MS. LAMOUREUX: There must be an error in your
9 binder. For some reason, it was omitted from your binder. It
10 is in our binders. I hope it's in defense --
11 THE COURT: Well, it's --
12 MS. LAMOUREUX: -- counsel's binders.
13 THE COURT: It's in the exhibit list that I'm looking
14 at here.
15 MS. HADEN: I -- I have it.
17 THE CLERK: Judge, can you get closer to the
18 microphone, please?
19 THE COURT: Yes. 805 is the one that starts out
20 "confidential brief"?
21 MS. LAMOUREUX: Yes.
22 THE COURT: Yeah, all right. 805 may be admitted as
23 well.
25 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could go ahead and pull up
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Dunford - Direct 63
1 Exhibit 801, please.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay.
3 MS. LAMOUREUX: I'll give the jury a minute to have
4 that up on their screen.
5 BY MS. LAMOUREUX:
6 Q And if we turn to page 3 of this exhibit, can you tell the
7 jury what we're looking at there?
8 A This is the file information regarding where it was found,
9 its physical size, when it was created and modified and last
10 accessed.
11 Q So this is information about the document on the first two
12 pages of the exhibit?
14 Q This didn't -- this information wasn't found on the
15 computer like that; correct? We prepared that for --
16 A That --
17 Q -- presentation to the jury?
18 A That is correct.
19 Q What does it tell you about the created date of this
20 document?
21 A It was created on 12/28/2010.
22 Q And what is the file name?
23 A The file name is "contacts dot docx."
24 Q Okay.
25 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we turn to page 1.
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Dunford - Direct 64
1 Q We see a list of names and contact information there?
2 A Yes.
3 Q It includes Lonnie Vernon?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And Schaeffer Cox?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And Mike Anderson?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Coleman Barney?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And then there's a number of names listed together, J.R.
12 Olson, for example?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And then at the bottom, what's that last line say?
15 A Additional names from the Liberty -- the Liberty Bell
16 list.
17 MS. LAMOUREUX: And if we turn to page 2 of the
18 exhibit.
19 Q There's a few more additional names there?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay.
22 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's turn to Government Exhibit 802.
23 And if we could go to page 2 first, please.
24 Q Again, if you could tell the jury what we're looking at on
25 this page.
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Dunford - Direct 65
1 A This is the same as -- as you've seen before, the date
2 created, modified and accessed, and also the file path and file
3 name of this particular file.
4 Q So what's the file name?
5 A The file name of this file is "new updated list of APM
6 contacts" in parenthesis "2 dot docx."
7 Q And it has a created date?
8 A Yes.
9 Q What is it?
10 A 12/28/2010.
11 Q And then it has a modified date?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And what is that date?
14 A 2/19/2011.
15 Q Okay.
16 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go back to page 1, please.
17 Q What's the title there?
18 A "Alaska Peacemakers on-call status."
19 Q Okay. And then there's a list of individuals?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Colonel Schaeffer Cox with a phone number?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And below that?
24 A Lieutenant Colonel Les Zerbe.
25 Q And number three?
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Dunford - Direct 66
1 A Major Coleman Barney.
2 Q Number four?
3 A Major Ken Thesing.
4 Q Number six?
5 A Sergeant Lonnie Vernon.
6 Q Okay. So there's additional names here listed on the
7 on-call status document?
8 A Yes.
9 MS. LAMOUREUX: Let's go ahead and turn to Exhibit
10 803, please. And if we could go to page 3, please.
11 Q Can you tell the jury what we're looking at here?
12 A As we've seen before, the created, modified, accessed
13 date, the file path, and the name of the document.
14 Q Now the created date is what?
15 A The created date is December 28th, 2010.
16 Q Is that the same created date as the last document we saw?
17 A The last two documents, I believe.
18 Q Can you explain what that created date means?
19 A When the file was created.
20 Q And what does that mean in terms of -- does it mean --
21 does it necessarily mean it was the day that the document was
22 typed?
23 A No.
25 Q What does it mean?
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Dunford - Direct 67
1 A It can mean a number of things. When you see,
2 typically -- or could possibly be an explanation. When you see
3 multiple files that have the same created date, it could mean
4 that they were moved from place to another at the same time.
5 Q So the created date relates to that computer?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And the modified date here is --
8 A One -- January 13th, 2010.
9 Q So why is the modified date -- why is that modified date
10 before the created date?
11 A Again, like I said before, it could be that the file was
12 moved from one place to another. The -- actually, for the --
13 the data that stayed with the particular file, and the fact
14 that it would have been modified at that time, stayed with the
15 file. But the created date would have been changed because it
16 had been created on that computer at that particular time.
17 Q So some of that information stays with the document?
19 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we could go to --
20 Q Oh, sorry. What's the name of this file?
21 A The name on this file says "Thursday, the 14th, carpool
22 info dot docx."
23 MS. LAMOUREUX: If we go to page 1, please.
24 Q What are we looking at here? What kind of document does
25 it appear to be?
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Dunford - Direct 68
1 A This is -- it looks like it's an e-mail.
2 Q Okay. And the date of the e-mail?
3 A This was Wednesday, the 13th of January, 2010.
4 Q And there's a packing list included?
5 A Correct.
6 Q Okay. Can you read that packing list at the bottom?
7 A "Packing list. Local uniform, tan Carhartts, black BD
8 belt." Then "$60 uniform shirt, AR-15 with front single-point
9 sling, five mags, 100 rounds, sleeping bag, pad and cover, cold
10 weather boots, gloves, et cetera. Cups, spoon and plate,
11 towel, toothbrush. Optional but recommended head lamp,
12 overwhites, BDU multi-cam" --
13 Sorry.
14 Q You went to the next page. Go ahead.
15 A I apologize.
16 Q Yeah, that's all right.
17 A Next page.
18 Q So optional but recommended items are listed there?
19 A Right.
20 Q And then it says "from"?
21 A "From the Liberty Bell system."
22 THE COURT: Okay. I think we better call a halt
23 there since we're stopping early today. Ladies and gentlemen,
24 let me again remind you to follow my instructions. Don't
25 discuss the case with each other or anyone else. Don't let
T AMSCRIPTS ! (813) 428-5321

69
1 anyone talk to you about it. Don't look up anything on your
2 own. Don't read, view or listen to any news accounts that may
3 be in the press, and don't do any blogging or communicating by
4 computer, e-mail, iPhone or otherwise. And hopefully we'll
5 have a regular day tomorrow. I'll work you a little bit
6 harder. Come back at 8:30 in the morning ready to go to work.
7 Okay. You may be excused.
8 (Jury out at 3:32 p.m.)
9 THE COURT: Mr. Johnson, I guess you're the one that
10 wants to get out of here.
11 MR. JOHNSON: Yes.
12 THE COURT: Feel free. In regard to number 811, you
13 know, I -- I really think it's not been identified as to when
14 it was taken, who took it, what it's a picture of. It's
15 floating out there and it's not been sufficiently identified at
16 this point.
17 MS. LAMOUREUX: The -- the photo, Your Honor, if I
18 may, was found on the computer.
19 THE COURT: Of -- of Thesing?
20 MS. LAMOUREUX: Of Thesing's computer. And it has a
21 name and the title of the document includes a date on it. And
22 then there's also, on the back page, the information regarding
23 the modified date and the created date. So we have that
24 information from the JPEG file, which is where we found the
25 photo, was from the computer.
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70
1 MS. HADEN: Your Honor, just --
2 THE COURT: We -- we still don't know who took it or
3 when it was taken.
4 MS. LAMOUREUX: Just like we don't know who wrote the
5 documents, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Yeah, well, I don't think 811 has been
7 sufficiently identified at this point. It's one of those
8 floating documents that has more potential prejudice than it
9 has other value. And I think that was taken at the radio or
10 television interview time --
11 MS. LAMOUREUX: That's the title.
12 THE COURT: -- if I recall.
13 MS. LAMOUREUX: Right, KJNP.
14 THE COURT: And, you know, it needs to be shown with
15 evidence and I haven't seen it yet. Now I don't know, maybe
16 there's something I'm overlooking in all this computerese, but
17 it doesn't look very identified to me. I might only say we're
18 getting some evidence in here awful slow. I think we're mired
19 in details from my view of what I've seen here. So get to the
20 bottom line of each witness as quick as you can. Okay.
21 Tomorrow morning at 8:30.
22 THE CLERK: All rise. This matter is in recess until
23 tomorrow morning at 8:30. The court is adjourned subject to
24 call.
25 (Proceedings concluded at 3:35 p.m.)
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71
1 INDEX
2 Further
Direct Cross Redirect Recross Redirect
3
WITNESSES FOR THE
4 PLAINTIFF:
5 David Allan Willson

(Continued)
6 By Ms. Lamoureux 6
7 Ramin Dunford
By Ms. Lamoureux 52
8
9 EXHIBITS: Marked Received
10 794 Phone examination report for 6 6

Cox's iPhone - notes
11
557 iPhone from Thesing residence 7 7
12
800 Extraction report of Liberty Bell 12 13
13 iPhone from Thesing's residence
14 213 AT&T cell phone 20 20
15 782 Phone examination report of Barney's 22 22

LG phone - contacts
16
783 Phone extraction report of Barney's 22 22
17 LG phone - texts
18 149 iPhone in black case 28 29
19 790 Phone examination report of Nichols' 30 30

iPhone - texts
20
152 4 CDs 32 32
21
157 Photo 33 33
22
821 CDs from Cox 34 35
23
24
25
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72
1 INDEX (CONTINUED)
2 EXHIBITS (CONT'D.): Marked Received
3 824 CDs from Cox 34 35
6 827 Directory listing for CD1 34 35
7 828 Directory listing for CD2 34 35
8 212 White MacBook from Barney residence 53 54
9 279 Dell computer tower from Vernon residence 55 55
10 189 Toshiba laptop 56 56
11 555 Dell computer from Thesing residence 58 58
12 801 FTK examination report of Thesing's 59 62

Dell laptop
13
802 FTK examination report of Thesing's 59 62
14 Dell laptop

Dell laptop
16
17 Dell laptop

Dell laptop
19
20 Dell laptop

Dell laptop
22
23 Dell laptop

Dell laptop
25
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73
1 INDEX (CONTINUED)
2 EXHIBITS (CONT'D.): Marked Received

Dell laptop
4
811 Photo 59
5
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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74
1 CERTIFICATION
2
I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from
3
the electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the
4
above-entitled matter.
5
7 s/Tammie Heinrich 9/27/12

Tammie Heinrich, Transcriber Date
8
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
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U.S. vs. Cox Et Al. TBJ Day 6 5 15 12

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U.S. vs. Cox Et Al. TBJ Day 6 5 15 12

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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Case No. 3:11-cr-00022-RJB

13 For the Plaintiff: STEVE SKROCKI

T AMSCRIPTS ! (813) 428-5321

2 Court Recorder: DENALI ELMORE

5 Transcription Service: TAMSCRIPTS

T AMSCRIPTS ! (813) 428-5321

1 ANCHORAGE, ALASKA - TUESDAY, MAY 15, 2012

3 (Call to Order of The Court at 8:29 a.m.)

4 (Jury not present; all parties present)

5 THE CLERK: All rise. His Honor the Court, the

6 United States District Court for the District of Alaska is now

7 in session, the Honorable Robert J. Bryan presiding.

8 THE COURT: Please be seated. Good morning.

9 THE COUNSEL: Good morning, Your Honor.

10 THE COURT: I -- my assistant there found a local

11 blog all about the trial, including pictures. I'm going to

12 change my hairdo, I think. Are we ready to proceed this

14 MR. DOOLEY: One --

15 MS. LAMOUREUX: Yes.

16 MR. DOOLEY: -- matter, Your Honor. We had --

17 THE COURT: Mr. Dooley.

18 MR. DOOLEY: -- a report that jurors could see Ms.

20 THE COURT: I'm sorry. You got to talk louder.

21 MR. DOOLEY: We had a report the jurors, or a juror,

22 could see Ms. Lamoureux's monitor and thought we could probably

23 get it turned a little more toward, say, Mr. Skrocki.

24 THE COURT: Fair enough.

T AMSCRIPTS ! (813) 428-5321

1 THE COURT: Think that's okay?

2 MR. SKROCKI: I think that's about the best --

3 THE COURT: Turn it more if you need to.

5 THE COURT: How did you get that information, Mr.

7 MR. DOOLEY: From one of my supporters here. I think

9 juror craning her neck.

10 THE COURT: Oh, okay.

11 MR. DOOLEY: The fellow that's sitting where Mr.

14 MS. LAMOUREUX: Maybe we could move our table back.

15 THE CLERK: No, you can't move the table back.

18 MR. SKROCKI: Your Honor, we might just have to keep

19 an eye on -- that -- that works.

20 MS. LAMOUREUX: Or we could admonish the jury, too.

22 MR. TRAVERSO: No, we don't want to admonish -- you

24 like a defense (indiscernible) --

25 THE COURT: Just keep it twisted so they can't see

T AMSCRIPTS ! (813) 428-5321

2 MR. SKROCKI: This works.

3 THE COURT: Okay. Anything else?

4 MR. TRAVERSO: I just ask, Your Honor, with respect

5 to today, I just need a few minutes before Mr. Anderson

6 testifies. And I understand he's going to testify -- I got

7 some -- a new report from the government and I want to have

8 time to integrate it into my case today.

9 THE COURT: When's he come up?

10 MR. SKROCKI: He's coming up after Mr. Willson.

11 THE COURT: Well, I -- I don't want to take the jury

14 got a problem, ask for a break. Ready?

15 MR. SKROCKI: Yes, sir. I don't -- I don't think

16 we'll get to cross before lunchtime.

17 THE COURT: Oh, okay.

18 MR. TRAVERSO: Oh, okay. Thanks.

19 THE COURT: Where's our witness?

20 MS. LAMOUREUX: In the hallway.

22 DAVID ALLAN WILLSON, PLAINTIFF'S WITNESS, RESUMES THE STAND

24 (Jury in at 8:34 a.m.)

25 THE COURT: Good morning, all. Be seated, please.