2010 Jan 29 Transcript Hearing Richardson V Dombrowski

IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF SHAWNEE COUNTY, KANSAS
DIVISION 13
IN THE MATTER OF: )

HALLECK RICHARDSON, )
Petitioner ) Case No. 96-D-217
)
and )
CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI, )
Respondent )
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
PROCEEDINGS had before the HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM,

District Judge of Shawnee County, Kansas, in connection with the
above-captioned matter on the 29th of January, 2010.
APPEARANCES
The Petitioner Mr. Halleck Richardson appeared in person

and by and through his counsel of record, Mr. Jason Hoffman,
Hoffman & Hoffman, 100 E. 9th, 3rd Floor, Topeka, Kansas 66612.
The Respondent Ms. Claudine Dombrowski appeared in person

and by and through her counsel, Mr. Robert E. Duncan, II,
Attorney at Law, Suite 202 212 S.W. 8th Ave. Topeka, Kansas,
66603.
The Minor Child appeared not but by and through her

Guardian Ad Litem, Ms. Jill Dykes, Attorney at Law, Suite B 1243
S.W. Topeka Blvd. Topeka, Kansas, 66612.
Transcribed by: Carol A. Roberts, CSR

Supreme Court #1051
I N D E X
WITNESSES
FOR THE RESPONDENT
MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI
Direct Examination by Mr. Duncan . . . . . 12

Cross Examination by Mr. Hoffman . . . . . 21
Cross Examination by Ms. Dykes . . . . . . 37
Redirect Examination by Mr. Duncan . . . . 43
E X H I B I T S
PETITIONER DESCRIPTION Offered Admitted

2A Blog post material -- --
2B Blog post material -- --
RESPONDENT DESCRIPTION Offered Admitted
None
CLOSING REMARKS/ARGUMENTS
By Mr. Duncan . . . . .47
By Mr. Hoffman . . . . 53
By Ms. Dykes . . . . . 55
By Mr. Duncan . . . . .58
By Mr. Hoffman . . . . 60
Judge‟s Ruling/Remarks . . . . . . 61
Certificate . . 82
Integrity Transcription, Carol A. Roberts, Certified Shorthand Reporter

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1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Court will call
2 the Case of Hal Richardson and Claudine Dombrowski, 96-D-
3 217. Appearances for the Court, please?
4 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Mr. Richardson appears in
5 person and through Counsel, Jason Hoffman, Your Honor.
6 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Ms. Dombrowski appears in
7 person and with her Counsel, Robert E. Duncan, II.
8 MS. JILL DYKES: May it please the Court, the
9 Minor Child appears not but by and through Guardian Ad
10 Litem Jill Dykes.
11 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. There was
12 a previous order in this case that Ms. Dombrowski‟s cell
13 phone would need to be given to her Counsel during the
14 course of any hearing because of unauthorized taping of a
15 previous hearing in violation of the District Court Rules.
16 So has that -- thank you very much, Ms. Dombrowski.
17 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Turn it off, please.
18 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Today I believe
19 we have two motions. One is the -- Ms. Dombrowski‟s
20 motion I believe for -- it was unsupervised parenting time
21 if I‟m not mistaken?
22 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: And then the
24 other was the motion for an order to -- or was the -- was
25 the motion on a show cause to find the -- Ms. Dombrowski

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1 in contempt.
2 Are those the two motions we‟re here on today?
3 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Yes, sir.
4 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Yes, Your Honor.
5 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Are we
6 ready to proceed?
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Mr.
9 Hoffman, it‟s your motion so if you want to go ahead and
10 call your first witness?
11 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Judge, I didn‟t -- or I
12 don‟t, I should say, intend to call any witnesses, uh,
13 today on that motion.
14 The motion was essentially continued by agreement as
15 I understood it, to allow some additional time for
16 clients. There was a document that was proffered by
17 agreement of the parties at the time of the last hearing
18 to the Court.
19 Uh, that would be the sum and substance of the
20 evidence that would be offered related to that particular,
21 uh, motion.
22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Was that the
23 Exhibit A?
24 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: I believe that‟s correct,
25 Your Honor.

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1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: This one here?
2 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Yes. It is Exhibit A, Your
3 Honor.
4 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: We were last in
5 court, my notes reflect on November 13th. That the
6 parties agreed that the Motion for Contempt will be
7 deferred pending Petitioner‟s -- I think it‟s Respondent‟s
8 locating and removing all referenced items to the Minor
9 Child on the Internet.
10 This matter was to be reset if there was a
11 disagreement between the parties about the removal of the
12 items referencing the Minor Child and her likeness from
13 the Internet.
14 Now, Mr. Duncan, do you want to address that?
15 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Well, I intend to address
16 it basically in my -- in the questions I have of my -- the
17 Court set up certain conditions with regard to whether or
18 not my client would be restored to some parenting time.
19 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I‟m --
20 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: So I am --
21 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- I‟m --
22 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- the Court set up, uh,
23 several conditions relative to my client. No one‟s ever
24 said that --
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I can hear --

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1 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- they couldn‟t hear me
2 before.
3 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I can hear
4 that. I didn‟t --
5 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: That‟s a first. Anyway,
6 as conditions relative to whether or not she would, uh,
7 uh, be afforded the parenting time.
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yes, sir.
9 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: And so I‟m prepared to
10 address, basically the issue that in the sense that was
11 raised here because one of those con -- the conditions
12 were -- were one, that she not, uh, discuss, have
13 conversations with the divorce, ongoing proceedings, the
14 things that happen in this courtroom or the interactions
15 between her and her husband -- ex-husband or father -- the
16 -- the father of the parties child. They weren‟t married.
17 So that‟s, uh --
18 So in that regard, so we‟re going to address that.
19 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: That was with
20 the child.
21 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: That‟s with the child,
22 right.
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay.
24 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: The second issue was,
25 after we were first here on the first contempt, uh, uh,

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1 some efforts were made to remove things from the Internet
2 that we provided correspondence with the parties, uh, with
3 regard to that issue.
4 Um, initially a memorandum that I sent on, uh, uh,
5 to, uh, folks on, uh, uh, December 15. I wrote a memo to
6 everybody with regard to the removal of a variety of
7 items. Um, uh, also, uh, I had sent a -- a memorandum,
8 uh, prior to that, uh, on, uh, some time back in October.
9 Um, and then I had -- my client, uh, met in my office
10 on, uh, two or three occasions with my, uh,
11 technologically, uh, uh, uh, educated son. Uh, went
12 through and removed what they could.
13 And so I plan to ask her, uh, about whether she has
14 or has not added matters to the Net and understands the
15 nature of the order where she‟s not supposed to.
16 So that‟s how I plan on addressing that. And, uh, I
17 don‟t know what -- I can‟t prove a negative, quite
18 honestly but that‟s the best we can do is to put her under
19 oath and let her, uh, and then I have a few other, uh, a
20 few other items.
21 I do, preliminarily --
22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yes?
23 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- I do have some
24 information about, uh, Doctor -- is it -- Heredia?
25 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Heredia.

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1 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- uh --
2 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: You said Doctor
3 who?
4 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- may I approach the
5 Court?
7 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I mean we had, uh, at a
8 prior occasion, the Court had wanted to know about, uh,
9 the, uh, physician who had completed the, uh, mental
10 health report, uh, which vitae was provided, uh, to the
11 Court, uh, previously.
12 I contacted the, uh, folks, uh, where he currently
13 works, requested on several occasions, uh, did, uh, did
14 not get it. So on my own I went out and found some
15 information about the good doctor.
16 Yeah, okay so you have his picture, you have the
17 description of what his experiences are and his training
18 as set out in the, uh, uh, the Web site for the, uh, uh,
19 at the community, uh, American, uh, well, no it -- this is
20 on the Web site of where he‟s currently working.
21 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Oh.
22 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Down below you have the
23 Kansas Board of Healing Arts, uh, information with regard
24 to his current accreditation as a medical doctor, uh, when
25 it was last updated and that his status is current and

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1 that there‟s no disciplinary actions apparently, uh, uh --
2 oh, there it is.
3 Uh, when he was, uh, Community Healthcare Systems,
4 Inc. in Onega is where, uh, has a Web site and that‟s
5 where I got the information about his current, uh, uh, uh,
6 activities.
7 Uh, what it doesn‟t show is he previously had worked,
8 uh, out at Larned, uh, State Hospital, uh, as -- as well.
9 Um, so, uh, that‟s the -- that was the -- that‟s the best
10 I could do without cooperation from, uh, um, from his
11 employer providing me with a, uh, with a vitae.
12 But I think it‟s sufficient to demonstrate that his
13 specialization at least as, as, uh, uh, promoted by the
14 folks who employ him is psychiatric medicine, so -- and
15 that he‟s had several training specifically in that area
16 of psychiatric, uh, uh, medicine, uh, at the -- at, uh,
17 several, uh, universities, uh, um, uh, in the, uh, here in
18 the United States.
19 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Do you want to
20 proceed then on your Motion to Modify the Visitation?
21 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Yeah.
22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. If you
23 want to call your first witness?
24 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Uh, I want to make a -- I
25 want to --

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1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Oh, I‟m sorry.
2 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- I want to make an
3 opening statement on that matter.
4 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Certainly.
5 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: So, if I could? I want
6 to bring the Court‟s attention to a couple of matters as
7 set out in the -- in the statutes and, uh, as, uh,
8 interpreted by our Supreme Court.
9 Um, and the Court -- I‟m -- I may be repeating some
10 of this for my own edification; probably not for the
11 Court‟s. But nonetheless, Chapter 60, Article 16, 60-1616
12 provides that a parent is entitled to reasonable parenting
13 time unless the Court finds after a hearing that the
14 exercise of parenting time would seriously endanger the
15 child‟s physical, mental, moral or emotional health.
16 So it may be a rebuttable presumption, but the
17 presumption is that my client is entitled to parenting
18 time by law.
19 Now, that is reinforced, uh, not only in, uh, in, uh,
20 uh, in -- in case law, in the -- in the -- in the Bully
21 vs. Kimbrel Case, which was decided in 2006. And it‟s
22 interesting because it‟s a case that‟s somewhat similar
23 because in that -- we -- this case we have a 15-year old
24 daughter and a mother and in that case we have a 16-year
25 old son and a father.

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1 And what did the Court say? The Court said that in
2 the absence of a finding that parenting time “would
3 seriously endanger the child‟s physical, mental, moral or
4 emotional health, the trial court must set a reasonable
5 and specific schedule for David‟s parenting time, uh, with
6 Evan.”
7 Uh, the Court also said in there that the child‟s
8 desires are not determinative of what should happen or
9 that the child should not be placed -- who should not be
10 the one who makes the determination as to whether there
11 will or will not be the parenting time because that‟s
12 tantamount to, uh, uh, a -- a potential denial of all
13 parenting time.
14 So I bring that up because, uh, I know the Court had
15 opportunity to visit with the child at the last occasion
16 and had some discussions with the child and told us
17 primarily that the -- that the number one problem, issue
18 was Mom‟s ongoing conversations with -- allegedly with
19 that child on all these issues that -- that go on in here
20 and between Dad and gave rise to the initial, uh,
21 parenting case.
22 Um, so, um, I think that‟s the law of the case. Uh,
23 and with that, I would then, uh, call my, uh, client and
24 ask her to be sworn in.
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Ms. Dombrowski,

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1 if you‟ll come forward. If you‟ll raise your right hand.
2 Do you solemnly swear the information and testimony you‟re
3 about to give in this cause and proceeding is the truth,
4 the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you
5 God?
6 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes, I do.
7 [THEREUPON, Ms. Claudine Dombrowski, called
8 as a witness on behalf of the Respondent,
9 having first been duly sworn by the Court,
10 testified as to the following:]
11 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Please have a
12 seat.
13 DIRECT EXAMINATION
14 BY MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II
15 Q. I don‟t know why we always start with this question
16 but we do. Please state your name.
17 A. Claudine Marie Dombrowski.
18 Q. All right and, uh, you‟re the mother of the, uh, uh,
19 of, uh, of whom?
20 A. Rikki A. Dombrowski.
21 Q. All right. Now, um, let me put a couple things
22 behind us. Do you understand that one of the prerequisites of
23 re-establishing parenting time is that you agree that you will
24 not discuss the divorce or the -- the, uh, the, uh, the
25 parenting case, the ongoing child custody matters or any aspect

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1 of these proceedings that occur within this courthouse with
2 your daughter?
3 A. Yes, I am and nor have I in the past 10 years that
4 I‟ve been in supervised visits.
5 Q. All right, well --
6 A. For the record.
7 Q. -- all right --
8 A. But yes --
9 Q. -- but --
10 A. -- I‟m -- completely understand that.
11 Q. Okay. And do you understand that, that from this day
12 forward if the Court provides you with parenting time and you
13 engage in that, that that‟s probably going to risk your ability
14 to have any parenting time with this child in the future?
15 You understand that that‟s -- that‟s -- that you must
16 comply with that and failure to comply with it will -- would
17 more than likely result in the termination of your parenting
18 time with your daughter; do you understand that?
19 A. To speak with my daughter at all?
20 Q. Do you understand that if you cannot comply with that
21 condition --
22 A. To not talk about the court --
23 Q. -- to not --
24 A. -- case?
25 Q. -- to discuss the court case, these matters,

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1 interactions with Dad --
2 A. Oh, that‟s --
3 Q. -- things that --
4 A. -- fine.
5 Q. -- go on in here.
6 A. That‟s fine.
7 Q. If you don‟t -- if you don‟t comply with that, that
8 you‟re probably not going to have any parenting time in the
9 future; do you understand that?
10 A. Okay, yes, I do.
11 Q. All right. And are you willing to agree to that
12 condition, that you not discuss this case, ongoing child
13 custody matters, or aspects of any of these proceedings with
14 your daughter?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. All right. Now, secondly, um, you recall last, early
17 fall, uh, there was an accusation that you had placed
18 materials, contravention of Judge‟s, uh, of, uh, of, uh, of the
19 Court‟s order, uh, on the Internet that were either, um, uh,
20 pictures or references to your daughter. Do you under -- do
21 you -- do you recall that initial accusation?
22 A. The tribute video, yes.
23 Q. And -- all right. Do you also -- did you come to,
24 uh, then in the early fall, did you come to my office and, uh,
25 work with my son Ryan to remove, uh, what materials, uh, that

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1 could be found at that time?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. All right. And then did you come back to my office
4 after we had indication that there might be some things that
5 were missed and again in December, uh, take whatever actions
6 were under your control to remove, uh, references, uh,
7 pictures, identifications and the like, uh, from, uh, the
8 Internet?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. Now, did you and he at that time, um, also, uh, make
11 efforts to, uh, uh, contact, um, Web pages that had those
12 references but over which you had no control?
13 A. Yes, we did.
14 Q. All right. And, um, some of those were like the, uh,
15 oh, trying to think. Is there one -- there‟s like one that was
16 in France; is that correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And you -- you and he contacted them in an effort to
19 get that removed; is that right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Now, since the time that we have been back here in
22 court, um, on this issue, and that you have been -- the order
23 has been reaffirmed that you are not to add anything to the
24 Internet, have you added any likenesses, uh, of your -- or --
25 or references to your, uh, to your daughter, um, uh, in any --

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1 uh, to -- in any Web site to which you have access?
2 A. No, except for the tribute video is still floating.
3 Q. Right, but it‟s not -- but you‟ve removed it from
4 things that you have --
5 A. That I have control of.
6 Q. -- control over, all right. But we do know that it‟s
7 still out there?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. All right. Now, uh, where are you currently
10 residing?
11 A. I am in the Address Confidentiality Safe at Home
12 Program --
13 Q. All right, let me --
14 A. -- under --
15 Q. -- let me --
16 A. -- the Secretary --
17 Q. -- rephrase --
18 A. -- of State.
19 Q. -- that. What -- please describe to the Court the --
20 the -- the -- the physical layout of where it is that you‟re
21 residing. I mean --
22 A. A two-bedroom apartment.
23 Q. Okay. And is there a place in that apartment, uh,
24 for your, uh, daughter, uh, to, uh, stay, uh, were you to have,
25 uh, standard Shawnee County Guidelines and, uh, some overnight

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1 visitations?
2 A. Yes, there is.
3 Q. And, um, are you -- uh, are you, uh, currently, uh,
4 under any medical, uh, treatment?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Are you under any, uh, psychiatric, uh, treatment, uh
7 --
8 A. No.
9 Q. -- at this, at this time? All right. Um, and, and
10 the, uh, um, do you understand that if your, uh, daughter is
11 having parenting time with you and that she has, uh, prior
12 commitments, whether they be school activities, uh, uh,
13 birthday parties of, uh, friends or, uh, fill in the blank, uh,
14 that your obligation is to see that she gets to those and
15 participates in those?
16 A. Oh, yes.
17 Q. All right. Now, when was the last time you actually
18 had occasion to visit with your daughter?
19 A. In 2003.
20 Q. Well, you‟ve been -- you‟ve seen her -- that‟s
21 without --
22 A. Supervised.
23 Q. -- that‟s without supervision.
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. Okay. When was the last time that you attended a

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1 supervised, uh, parenting time?
2 A. Last summer, uh, several months before school
3 started.
4 Q. So you‟ve not been to Odyssey --
5 A. No.
6 Q. -- since what, August or September?
7 A. Uh, okay, I believe Rikki started school in, uh,
8 August. Uh, believe it might have -- it was before school
9 started. I haven‟t seen her since before school started.
10 Q. All right, so, uh, there‟s been no contact with you,
11 uh, we -- you -- have there been some occasions when, uh, uh,
12 sessions were set up last fall?
13 A. Oh, yes --
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. -- many.
16 Q. And, uh, what happened with those, uh occasion --
17 what happened with those sessions?
18 A. They were cancelled.
19 Q. All right. And what reason were you given that they
20 were cancelled?
21 A. Um, that Rikki had prior commitments.
22 Q. And -- and couldn‟t make the sessions?
23 A. And couldn‟t make the sessions.
24 Q. All right. So the Odyssey folks have not actually
25 observed you and her interact since last summer. Is that -- is

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1 that a fair statement?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. Um, how old‟s your daughter?
4 A. Fifteen.
5 Q. All right. So she‟s old enough that if there -- if -
6 - that if there were, uh, uh, problems with the visitation, she
7 could pick up the phone and call somebody or -- in fact, does
8 she have her driver‟s license now?
9 A. Yes --
10 Q. Do you know?
11 A. She does, mm-hm.
12 Q. Okay. What parenting time are you asking the Court
13 to establish for you here today?
14 A. Shawnee County Guidelines.
15 Q. Okay. And what do you understand that to be for a
16 child, uh --
17 A. Every other --
18 Q. -- age --
19 A. -- weekend --
20 Q. -- appropriate?
21 A. -- uh, once during, um, the week and it‟s from the
22 age of 10 up, uh, more time is to be spent with the same sex
23 parent.
24 Q. Okay. So at least the minimum alternating weekends,
25 perhaps a midweek visit and then, uh, are you asking for the

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1 standard holiday visitation?
2 A. Yes, I am.
3 Q. Okay. Now --
4 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Excuse me, Your Honor.
5 Q. (By Mr. Duncan) -- um, have you, talking just about
6 you now, all right, been accused, uh, have you ever, uh, been,
7 uh, been subjected to any investigation of either sexually or
8 physically abusing your daughter?
9 A. Never.
10 Q. All right. Have you ever been accused of or been
11 investigated for, um, a, uh, violence against this child or --
12 A. Hm --
13 Q. -- harming this child?
14 A. -- no.
15 Q. Okay. Um, are you impaired because of any substance
16 abuse?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Are there any on -- pending investigations with
19 regard to those issues that I‟ve mentioned, physical, sexual
20 abuse of this child --
21 A. No.
22 Q. -- domestic violence against this child or substance
23 abuse at this time?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Okay.

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1 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I have nothing further.
2 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Mr. Hoffman,
3 Cross?
4 CROSS EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. JASON HOFFMAN
6 Q. Ms. Dombrowski, it‟s a fair statement that you‟re
7 fairly prolific as a publisher on the Internet isn‟t it?
8 A. Define prolific.
9 Q. You maintain a number of different Web sites do you
10 not?
11 A. I used to.
12 Q. Okay. And you are indicating to me today that you no
13 longer maintain those Web sites?
14 A. A lot of Web sites I do not maintain anymore because
15 I don‟t have Internet access.
16 Q. Okay. So the Kansas Mothers for Custodial Justice
17 site is no longer under your control?
18 A. I have turned control over, I believe it was about
19 three months ago when I lost Internet.
20 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I‟m sorry, I
21 didn‟t hear the last part.
22 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: About three years ago
23 -- or not three years -- three months ago I lost Internet
24 --

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1 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: -- so therefore I
2 don‟t have any of the --
3 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: That‟s fine, I
4 just --
5 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: -- I --
6 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- didn‟t hear
7 the last --
8 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Okay.
9 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- yeah, thank
10 you.
11 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) And likewise with the angelfury.org
12 Web site?
13 A. That -- correct -- is my Web site. I don‟t edit it
14 though. But I still have control over it --
15 Q. And you maintain --
16 A. -- per se.
17 Q. -- that Web site, correct?
18 A. Angelfury.org.
19 Q. Okay. Who is “anonymoms?”
20 A. Anonymous?
21 Q. Anonymoms?
22 A. Anonomoms?
23 Q. A-N-O-N-Y-M-O-M-S.
24 A. Are you familiar with Anonymous organization?
25 Q. I am.

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1 A. It‟s the same.
2 Q. Okay. And anonymoms is not a screen name that you
3 have used in the past related to your own activities?
4 A. Anonymoms, anonymous, anonymus, anonymuma, there‟s a
5 -- uh, a great deal of them are circulated globally.
6 Q. Okay. And with respect to the anonymuma, A-N-O-N-Y-
7 M-U-M-A --
8 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I‟m sorry, could you
9 please repeat that?
10 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: A-N-O-N-Y-M-U-M-
11 A.blogspot.com.
12 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) You don‟t maintain that Web site?
13 A. I don‟t have any idea which one it is. There are
14 about 600 Web sites out there and blogs out there.
15 Q. Okay. And are you a member of all of those?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Do you post to all of those?
18 A. I used to post to some, yes.
19 Q. Okay. In getting back to the Anonymuma issue, if
20 you‟re not posting to that, there would be no reason to expect
21 your Facebook badge on that page, correct?
22 A. No. My Facebook badge -- no, wait, let me reiterate,
23 those Web sites that were set up, maintained, their set-up does
24 not mean I have relinquished them. It just means I am not
25 posting to them because I do not have access to them.

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24
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. They‟ve been --
3 Q. But --
4 A. -- turn on over to Anonymus.
5 Q. Okay. So you‟ve turned control over those various
6 Web sites over to those folks?
7 A. To Anonymus.
8 Q. Okay. And if as an example there was an upload to
9 that particular Web site on December the 12th of 2009, that
10 wouldn‟t have been you?
11 A. Did it have a picture of my daughter on it?
12 Q. Yes.
13 A. Hm, then no, it wouldn‟t have been me because I don‟t
14 upload my daughter.
15 Q. Okay. Well let me rephrase that. The --
16 A. Please do.
17 Q. -- answer to your question if we‟re going to get into
18 me answering your questions is, I would submit to you that
19 there‟s a link to the tribute video that‟s --
20 A. Oh.
21 Q. -- at issue in this case.
22 A. Okay, again, the tribute video is something beyond my
23 control. It‟s all over the world.
24 Q. Okay. Let‟s get back to angelfury.
25 A. Okay.

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1 Q. Your testimony as I understand it is you no longer
2 operate that Web site?
3 A. Angelfury is my Web site.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. When I can, I try to edit it.
6 Q. Okay. And in -- if you recall, in July of 2009 --
7 A. No, I don‟t recall July of 2009.
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Well --
9 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I know -- yeah, I‟m not
10 objecting. I --
12 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- I -- Your Honor, I
13 guess if I can instruct my client to at least allow him to
14 finish his question.
15 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Okay, okay.
16 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: So she -- before she
17 answers it, as it would be in all of our benefit and I --
18 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yeah.
19 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: All right.
20 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- think that --
21 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yes, that --
22 that‟s fine. Let‟s -- if you can let him finish the
23 question.
24 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Would you have posted anything on
25 that Web site as of July 11th of 2009?

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1 A. I don‟t recall. I don‟t know which Web site you‟re
2 talking about.
3 Q. Angelfury.wordpress.com.
4 A. I don‟t recall. If you could be more specific I
5 might be able to help you.
6 Q. Perhaps if I read you some text, which I would
7 represent to you is contained on that Web site.
8 A. Does any of it -- okay.
9 Q. “Today is my birthday. Birthdays are really for the
10 mothers.”
11 A. That was --
12 Q. Do you recognize that --
13 A. -- that was --
14 Q. -- introduction?
15 A. -- that was, uh, April 6th, 2009 when I was found in
16 direct contempt for tribute video that I made for my dead
17 mother and my daughter. That was April.
18 Q. All right. Ma‟am, I‟m going to hand you what I‟ve
19 marked purely for, uh, identification purposes, Exhibit 2B,
20 which is part of a composite exhibit identified as Exhibit 2.
21 A. That‟s not a Web site. That‟s a blog.
22 Q. It‟s a blog. And you would --
23 A. There‟s a --
24 Q. -- agree --
25 A. -- difference.

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1 Q. -- with me, wouldn‟t you, that that indicates an
2 entry on that blog on July 11th, 2009?
3 A. That‟s what it says. And again, I said I don‟t have
4 control of my blogs.
5 Q. And the moniker off to the side of that is Claudine
6 Dombrowski, isn‟t it?
7 A. Claudine Dombrowski‟s on all the blogs or a lot of
8 them.
9 Q. Okay. And you would also agree with me, would you
10 not, that that particular section is identified at 2B is about
11 the author, correct?
12 A. It says about the author. I don‟t see any images of
13 my child however.
14 Q. Okay. Insofar as that exhibit goes, you see that
15 there is text towards the bottom of the page that starts out as
16 I read it to you. “Today is my birthday.”
17 A. April -- yeah.
18 Q. Okay. That‟s a --
19 A. My birthday was April 10.
20 Q. That‟s a series of -- that text was added by you,
21 wasn‟t it?
22 A. It was added -- I read it -- I wrote it at some point
23 obviously April 10, which is my birthday, not July 11th.
24 Q. Okay. And you would agree that there‟s some
25 highlighted text there, correct, that says my contempt was

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1 because of the video I made.
2 A. I don‟t see any highlight.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. I --
5 Q. Is there some text that says that?
6 A. Uh, the contempt that I was convicted of civilly
7 without rule of procedure of same, criminals -- uh, no I don‟t
8 see what -- um, so when does civil become criminal. Doesn‟t
9 jail per se the Fourth Amendment speaks civil, may jury -- may
10 have jury, no silence of oppression if value exceeds $20, yeah,
11 that would make a mad man mad as a hatter indeed hence this
12 blog post. Sanity, dignity, social activism, true change.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. Wait, this is the same part. It gets better. Today
15 is my birthday. That was April 10.
16 Q. Okay. And you would agree with me that in that
17 paragraph, my contempt was because of the video I made and then
18 it goes on, correct?
19 A. Was because of a video I made, the preservation of
20 good, sacred.
21 Q. Okay. And is it your testimony then that there are
22 no internal links embedded in this particular blog post --
23 A. I can‟t --
24 Q. -- to the tribute video?
25 A. -- I can‟t say that because I wrote this on April

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1 10th, my birthday, which I state. This says July 11.
2 Q. Is it possible that those external or internal links
3 are still there embedded in that text?
4 A. I wouldn‟t know. I haven‟t looked at them.
5 Q. Okay. But it‟s --
6 A. I don‟t know.
7 Q. -- possible?
8 A. Anything‟s possible. So is justice, but it‟s not
9 likely.
10 Q. All right. Turning to the rest of that exhibit if
11 you would, looking at Exhibit -- identified as Exhibit 2A,
12 should be on the --
13 A. Here, I‟ll let you do it since you‟re so good at it.
14 Q. Do you recognize that as a -- what amounts to a
15 screen print off of the angelfury.wordpress.com site?
16 A. Wordpress is a blog.
17 Q. Okay. Do you recognize that as a screen print off
18 the angelfury blog?
19 A. It looks like a printout.
20 Q. Okay. And on the top of that under a human rights
21 issue dash custodial justice, you see a -- what amounts to a
22 link that says about author, correct?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Top left-hand corner under a human rights issue
25 custodial justice.

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30
1 A. Oh, one in six women are murdered domestic violence?
2 Q. Right. And then you see a link that‟s about author?
3 A. Oh, it says, about author.
4 Q. Correct?
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. And that‟s where you got this other one, right?
8 Q. I was going to ask you that. Do you think that‟s
9 likely?
10 A. Um --
11 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Well I object, Your
12 Honor, that‟s speculation. She‟d have no way of knowing.
13 I‟m also going to object on relevance and materiality of
14 all -- of this whole line of questioning because the order
15 for which this all goes to is she was to withdraw any and
16 all likeness of the minor child over which she had control
17 that may be appearing on the Internet or other public
18 places or public access.
19 And further ordered not to present child at public
20 rallies, demonstrations, newscasts or otherwise publicize
21 the child‟s name or likeness. Now, uh, her name may be
22 there. I haven‟t seen the name Rikki --
23 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Dombrowski.
24 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- Dombrowski -- please.

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1 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Uh, Dombrowski, nor have
2 I seen any copies of likenesses of the child. So unless
3 Counsel can tie that up in some way, this -- this -- this
4 whole examination and these documents really are
5 immaterial.
6 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay, first
7 issue was speculation. I‟m going to overrule that.
8 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Okay.
9 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: If she can
10 answer, she can.
11 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: All right.
12 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: The second
13 issue is relevancy. Mr. Hoffman?
14 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Judge, I‟m not trying to be
15 combative but as a practical matter, every time we‟ve been
16 here on this case on this particular issue, we‟ve come up
17 with additional what we view to be additional postings on
18 the Internet, of particularly this tribute video.
19 And I have another exhibit here if we want to get off
20 that one and we can talk about the angel, uh, fury. org
21 site. Unfortunately I can‟t reproduce these things in an
22 electronic format in this forum.
23 The last time I photocopied everything in this case
24 and presented it to the Court. It was subsequently
25 scanned and placed on the Internet, including all the

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32
1 pictures we were able to obtain of Rikki.
2 So I hope the Court can appreciate the difficulty I‟m
3 having trying to get into this subject with this
4 particular witness. I cannot --
5 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Wait, wait,
6 wait, wait, wait.
7 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: I‟m sorry, Your Honor.
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I -- I think
9 what we have is -- is possibly two issues. One is, are
10 there images still on the Internet in reference to Rikki -
11 -
12 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Correct.
13 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- or her
14 likeness or anything about her on the Internet that --
15 that Ms. Dombrowski has access to.
16 And the second one is -- is the parenting time issue.
17 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Correct, Your Honor.
18 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Those are the
19 two issues. Now, does this line of questioning, is it
20 relevant to either one of those --
21 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Quite --
22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- issues?
23 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- quite frankly, Judge, it
24 relates to both and here‟s why.
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay, I‟m going

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33
1 to let -- well, in, in -- rather than take up a whole lot
2 of time, I‟m going to give you some -- some leeway on
3 that.
4 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: And I appreciate that,
5 Judge.
6 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: And -- and if
7 it‟s not relevant, then I will disregard it at the end and
8 I‟m sure Mr. -- Mr. Duncan will make a -- will make a
9 motion or argument that it‟s not -- wasn‟t relevant. But
10 I will give you some leeway so we can get -- get the
11 hearing on.
12 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: All right.
13 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Backing up to the issue of
14 anonymoms, you don‟t -- you do not use that as a screen name
15 anywhere; is that correct?
16 A. It‟s part of our organization. I don‟t use it. I
17 haven‟t used the Internet, um, for the past three months --
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. -- or more.
20 Q. And anonymuma.blogspot.com?
21 A. I don‟t have any -- I don‟t know what you‟re talking
22 about so I can‟t answer that question.
23 Q. And there would be no reason to expect your Facebook
24 badge -- badge to appear on that page, correct?
25 A. My Facebook badge -- badge can go anywhere in the

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34
1 world. That‟s what the World Wide Web does.
2 Q. Okay. And your testimony would be that you had
3 nothing to do with putting it up there?
4 A. I originally set up a bunch of sites, but I have
5 since relinquished those sites, which I have stated for -- in
6 the last three months.
7 Just because I relinquished those sites, does not mean
8 that they were dismantled.
9 Q. Okay. And your testimony would be then that you
10 don‟t have any control over what is up there?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. So I‟m clear, if something were added to the Internet
13 on December the 12th of 2009 and it happened to be the tribute
14 video to your -- to Rikki and your mother, that wouldn‟t have
15 been done by you?
16 A. No, it would not have been done by me.
17 Q. Okay. Do you want Rikki to have a relationship with
18 her father?
19 A. Rikki‟s had a relationship with her father for the
20 last 16 years. Momma hasn‟t.
21 Q. Okay. I actually asked you if you wanted her to have
22 a relationship with her --
23 A. I most --
24 Q. -- father?
25 A. -- definitely do.

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1 Q. Okay. And you think that relationship between your
2 daughter and her father is important, do you not?
3 A. No, I do not. Not as -- as in conjecture to putting
4 her mother in jail every time she comes to court to try and see
5 her daughter. No.
6 Q. Equally fair statement, is it not, that you have
7 published to the Internet, numerous renditions of your version
8 of the facts of this case; correct?
9 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Uh, Your Honor, uh, I --
10 I‟m going -- I‟m going to ask that the Court direct he be
11 more specific as to a timeframe.
12 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. If you
13 can --
14 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Okay.
15 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: The --
16 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) The --
17 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- it -- it is
18 not against the law for Ms. Dombrowski to have a Web site,
19 to publish to the Web site, to have multiple Web -- Web
20 sites. A lot of people do that.
21 So if -- if you‟ve got something --
22 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: And I do --
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- specific as
24 to time, let‟s -- let‟s address that.
25 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: All right.

1-888-271-9816
36
1 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) Have you, within the last 12 months,
2 placed anything on the Internet related to this case?
3 A. To this case?
4 Q. Yes.
5 A. Uh, I‟m sure I have. I don‟t recall what it would
6 be, though.
7 Q. And you have --
8 A. If you could be more specific that would help.
9 Q. Okay. Do you believe that degrading Mr. Richardson
10 is in Rikki‟s best interest?
11 A. No, I do not.
12 Q. Have you ever degraded Mr. Richardson in front of
13 Rikki?
14 A. Oh, never.
15 Q. Have you ever done it on the Internet?
16 A. I‟ve posted only the facts of this case, which happen
17 to be the lead case of the Inter-American Commission on Human
18 Rights for human rights violations.
19 Q. And again so that I‟m clear, when was the last time
20 that you had, uh, unsupervised visitation with Rikki?
21 A. I had unsupervised visitation with Rikki for
22 approximately six months in 2003 until my wrists were broken.
23 Um, I was immediately placed in supervised visitation on
24 an ex parte order February 3, 2004 to which I am still under to
25 this day.

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1 Q. Okay. And it‟s your belief today that it would be in
2 Rikki‟s best interest to immediately resume a full blown
3 Guidelines visitation schedule with you?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: I don‟t have any other
6 questions, Judge. Thank you.
8 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I -- I just have one
9 follow-up.
10 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Just a second.
11 Just a second. We got one more attorney.
12 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Oh.
14 MS. JILL DYKES: I just have a few questions.
16 CROSS EXAMINATION
17 BY MS. JILL DYKES
18 Q. Ms. Dombrowski, you testified on your Direct, um,
19 that you are currently not, um, receiving any medical care or
20 treatment; is that correct?
21 A. I‟m not under any other special medical care or
22 treatment that I‟ve been, uh, for the past, uh, 16 years.
23 Q. Okay. I don‟t think that was the question. The
24 question was, are you currently receiving any medical
25 treatment?

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1 A. I see my primary care physician, uh, once every six
2 months.
3 Q. Okay. And what, um, do you see the primary care
4 physician for?
5 A. General health, physical health.
6 Q. And are you on any type of medication?
7 A. Yes, I am.
8 Q. And what medication are you currently taking?
9 A. Um, I have been on, uh, Clonazepam for the past 16
10 years related to a heart murmur.
11 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I‟m sorry, to a
12 heart -- heart --
13 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Heart murmur.
14 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Thank you.
15 Q. (By Ms. Dykes) And at the last hearing that, um, we
16 attended, I believe your attorney provided the Court with, uh,
17 an evaluation that was conducted, um, by Dr. Heredia; is that
18 correct? Excuse me?
19 A. I believe so.
20 Q. Okay. And in that evaluation, um, the doctor that
21 you saw, um, had given you a diagnosis; is that correct?
22 A. That‟s correct. That‟s what the piece of paper says,
23 yes.
24 Q. All right. And the diagnosis in that document was a
25 generalized anxiety disorder which you are receiving treatment

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39
1 for, correct?
2 A. Specifically -- I don‟t understand the question.
3 Q. Are you receiving any treatment for the anxiety
4 disorder?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. So you‟re not receiving treatment for that
7 diagnosis?
8 A. As in I‟m not seeing a therapist for it because it‟s
9 judicially related.
10 Q. Okay. The, um, second diagnosis was the borderline
11 personality disorder.
12 A. Which is incorrect.
13 Q. Okay. So you‟re having --
14 A. That‟s okay --
15 Q. -- objection --
16 A. -- it doesn‟t matter. A borderline personality dis -
17 - disorder doesn‟t matter anyway. But it isn‟t --
18 Q. So you‟re saying --
19 A. -- it -- but that is an incorrect diagnosis, but
20 yeah, that‟s fine.
21 Q. And have you gone to see any other doctors to get
22 that set aside?
23 A. I -- do you know what a borderline personality
24 disorder is?
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: No, wait a

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1 second. Wait a second.
2 Q. (By Ms. Dykes) This is my opportunity --
3 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Wait, wait --
4 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Okay --
5 Q. (By Ms. Dykes) -- to ask you --
6 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: -- okay.
8 Q. (By Ms. Dykes) -- questions.
9 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Okay, okay.
10 Q. (By Ms. Dykes) And --
12 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Now, wait,
13 wait, no, everybody stop --
15 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- right now.
17 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: This is my
18 courtroom. Ms. Dombrowski, you get to answer --
20 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- the
21 questions. Your attorney will have a chance to Re --
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- direct and
24 ask you question.

1-888-271-9816
41
1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: You don‟t get a
2 chance, nor does any witness, to ask questions --
4 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- okay?
6 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Ms. Dykes, your
7 question again.
8 Q. (By Ms. Dykes) Um, I believe I asked if you had gone
9 to see any other doctor to get that diagnosis set aside?
10 A. My -- my primary care physician has made a phone call
11 to Dr. Heredia under the circumstances of this case and asked
12 him to please remove that.
13 Q. But you haven‟t presented anything to the Court to
14 show that that diagnosis has been removed, have you?
15 A. I don‟t need to. There‟s nothing wrong with the
16 borderline personality even if it were true.
17 Q. Okay. So it‟s your opinion that --
18 A. I‟m a psychiatric nurse.
19 Q. -- someone --
20 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: I‟m -- I‟m -- I‟m -- I‟m
21 going to object, asked and answered, we‟re now getting
22 argumentative with the client.
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: The one that --
24 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: It --
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- she didn‟t

1-888-271-9816
42
1 finish or -- let me -- let me hear the full question --
2 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Well, I mean she‟s asking my
3 client to give a medical diagnosis --
4 MS. JILL DYKES: And --
5 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- relative to her opinion.
6 And I don‟t think --
7 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Exactly.
8 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- I don‟t think --
9 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Exactly.
10 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- your client‟s --
12 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- qualified to do --
13 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- wait --
14 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- that.
15 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- and you‟re
16 right. But she did give a medical diagnosis. She said it
17 was incorrect. So I think that allows Counsel to explore
18 that.
19 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Okay, call it correct.
20 I don‟t really care, okay?
21 Q. (By Ms. Dykes) Okay.
22 A. Whatever you want to do. No, I haven‟t.
23 Q. Okay.
24 MS. JILL DYKES: I don‟t have any further
25 questions.

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2 Redirect, Mr. Duncan?
3 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Just a couple short
4 things.
5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II
7 Q. With regard to Ms. Dykes --
8 A. Sure.
9 Q. -- question, um, uh, the doc didn‟t prescribe that
10 you take any medications at that time, did he?
11 A. No, he didn‟t.
12 Q. And he didn‟t -- he didn‟t, uh, prescribe for you to
13 have any ongoing counseling with regard to any of the issues
14 that he set out, uh, in the, uh, in his, uh, diagnosis, whether
15 --
16 A. Mm --
17 Q. -- they‟re correct or incorrect, did he?
18 A. -- no, he didn‟t.
19 Q. Okay. Now, you‟ve not had the financial wherewithal
20 to pay Odyssey, uh, for the visits, have you?
21 A. No, I have not.
22 Q. And in fact, uh, they‟ve informed you that you‟re not
23 welcome there anymore unless you get them paid to date on the
24 balance that‟s due --
25 A. I received --

1-888-271-9816
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1 Q. -- is that correct?
2 A. -- a text message from the supervisor. That‟s what
3 she stated.
4 Q. Okay. So, um, if the Court were to basically order
5 you have -- to have supervised, uh, visits, uh, requiring you
6 to pay for those, um, would you be -- even be able to comply
7 with that?
8 A. No, I wouldn‟t.
9 Q. So that would basically be an order denying you
10 visitation?
11 A. Parenting time under -- yes.
12 Q. Yeah, I‟m sorry, I‟m old school. Visitation is what
13 I learned 30 years ago and --
14 A. That‟s basically --
15 Q. -- it‟s hard for me --
16 A. -- what it --
17 Q. -- to get it out of my mind. But yes, it is
18 parenting time. Okay.
19 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Nothing further.
20 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Recross, Mr.
21 Hoffman?
22 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: No, Your Honor, thank you.
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay, any
24 Recross, Ms. Dykes?
25 MS. JILL DYKES: No, thank you.

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45
1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Ms.
2 Dombrowski, you may step down. Thank you.
3 Mr. Duncan, do you have additional witnesses?
4 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I have no additional, uh,
5 witnesses, no, Your Honor.
7 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I have a --
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: What --
9 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- summary statement that
10 if the -- if --
12 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- if -- depending upon
13 any testimony that the, uh, uh, the other parties would
14 have.
16 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: But if --
17 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Mr. Hoffman?
18 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Judge, no evidence. Thank
19 you.
20 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Ms. Dykes?
21 MS. JILL DYKES: Your Honor, um, we have, um, a
22 letter that‟s been submitted from the Odyssey group --
23 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: And I‟m going to object -
24 -
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Let me -- let

1-888-271-9816
46
1 me do this --
2 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- that even if --
3 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- let me --
4 let me -- let me -- let me do this. Let her say -- she‟s
5 not going to go into it but let me hear her and then I‟ll
6 hear you, Mr. Duncan.
7 MS. JILL DYKES: Your Honor, it was, um,
8 authored by, um, Keira Haney, who was the supervisor for
9 the visitations that took place between Ms. Dombrowski and
10 Rikki.
11 Um, Julie Damron-Dittmer is present today. She was
12 the supervisor on the case. Um, she did not directly, um,
13 witness the visits --
15 MS. JILL DYKES: Um, Ms. Haney was unable to be
16 here today, um, or we would have called her to testify. I
17 would ask the Court to take judicial notice of the letter
18 that‟s being submitted, um, from Odyssey that speaks to
19 the status of those visits.
21 Duncan, do you have --
22 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Well --
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- something --
24 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- one, uh, it‟s not even
25 an affidavit. Secondly, it‟s, uh, uh, it doesn‟t meet any

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1 of the exceptions to the hearsay rule. I‟m not entitled
2 to cross examine the witness and, uh, and whatever, uh,
3 purported value it may have and I have seen it, um, uh,
4 the information is at least six months old.
5 So I mean it -- it -- based on the testimony here in
6 the courtroom because there‟s been no contact between
7 Mother and Child at that location for that period of time.
8 So it has no relevance to this proceeding, uh, and,
9 uh, I ask that the Court, uh, exclude it.
10 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I‟m not going
11 to admit it into evidence at this hearing. The witness is
12 not here to testify.
13 There is an objection to it. And this is a, this is
14 a -- this is an evidentiary hearing at this point in time.
15 So -- any other -- any other test -- any other witnesses,
16 Ms, Dykes?
17 MS. JILL DYKES: No, sir.
18 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. I think
19 we‟re ready for closing, then?
20 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Please the Court. A
21 parent is entitled to reasonable parenting time unless the
22 Court finds after a hearing that the exercise of parenting
23 time would seriously endanger the child‟s physical,
24 mental, moral or emotional health.
25 Now the problem with that statute is, it doesn‟t tell

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1 you necessarily what all those criteria are with regard to
2 what would constitute endangerment of the child‟s
3 physical, mental, moral or emotional health.
4 To that end, we have to take a look at the other
5 sections of the Kansas law and probably the most pertinent
6 is in Chapter 75 at 720, relating to child exchange and
7 visitation centers and the purpose for which they were set
8 up initially.
9 And a child -- uh, uh, at subsection C, the exchange
10 and visitation center is for children who have been
11 removed from such children‟s parents and placed outside
12 the home as a result of abuse or neglect or other risk of
13 harm to such children. Or for children whose parents are
14 separated or divorced and the children are at risk
15 because.
16 So here, what we have -- parents who are separated.
17 Is the child at risk because there is documented sexual,
18 physical or emotional abuse as determined by the Court?
19 There‟s no evidence to that.
20 There is suspected or elevated risk of sexual,
21 physical or emotional abuse or there have been threats of
22 parental abduction of the child. There‟s no evidence of
23 that.
24 Due to domestic violence and I‟m interpreting that as
25 being between the affected parent and the child, there is

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1 an ongoing risk of harm to the parent or child. There‟s
2 no evidence of that.
3 The parent is impaired because of substance abuse or
4 mental illness. There is a -- there is a reference to a
5 borderline disorder per her history but there‟s no
6 evidence as to an ongoing impairment because of either of
7 those.
8 Or there are allegations that the child is at risk
9 for any of the reasons in paragraphs one through four
10 pending an investigation. There‟s no evidence to that.
11 So the presumption is rebuttable. It has not been
12 rebutted. Sad thing in this case is that we basically
13 have been operating on a supervised parenting time based
14 upon a -- a -- an order that withstands hearing as to
15 whether or not there were a factual bases for the putting
16 the parenting time on a supervised basis initially.
17 And all that it‟s done unfortunately is aggravate the
18 entire circumstances between these two parties over the
19 last six years.
20 Now, so the child is grown up and the child is -- has
21 visited with the Court. Um, Kimbrel case makes it clear
22 that that in and of itself is not to be the determinative
23 as to whether or not there be parenting time.
24 And the Court now has to determine, does it have an
25 adequate factual basis by which to either one, deny the

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1 parenting time and I would say that you don‟t. And
2 secondly, do you even have a factual basis upon which to
3 say that it should be supervised because the child‟s at
4 risk? And I would suggest that you do now.
5 Now, there‟s been some smoke and mirrors with regard
6 to the child may be at risk because Mom continues
7 purportedly to put images of the child or make references
8 to the child or references to this case, uh, on the
9 Internet.
10 Unfortunately they don‟t really substantiate that
11 because all of these things are things that occurred well
12 before the very first hearing. And -- and there‟s been
13 evidence of --
15 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- last September.
16 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Wait, wait,
17 wait, before --
18 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Oh.
19 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- I --
20 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: That‟s fine.
21 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- at the first
22 hearing?
23 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: That we had last --
24 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I‟m sorry --
25 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- well, last fall.

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1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- okay. Okay,
2 thank you.
3 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: The references in these
4 dates are even pre-date that. July, April, whatever. So
5 corrective measures have been made throughout this period
6 of time.
7 I mean the last reference, assuming it‟s true, was in
8 July of „09. There‟s a suggestion that there was a --
9 that -- that like a spider‟s web, this video may have
10 again gone someplace else in December. I don‟t dispute
11 that.
12 The question is, did she do it? And there‟s no
13 evidence that she did. So that‟s just a smokescreen for
14 trying to suggest that she should not have some
15 unsupervised time with this child.
16 Now, let‟s talk about what‟s in the best interest of
17 the child. Funny, that‟s really -- really what we‟re
18 supposed to be doing in the first place.
19 It‟s in the best interest of the child for both
20 parties to have an ongoing, uh, relationship with the --
21 with -- with the -- with their parent.
22 It‟s obvious to me, these two people are never going
23 to get along and I‟m not even trying to see that they get
24 along. The farther apart they are is fine by me.
25 Whatever ground rules we set up so that it is an

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1 exchange of the child so that they never have to see,
2 talk or be within the presence of each other is fine by
3 me.
4 But those -- this aggravated circumstance shouldn‟t
5 deny my client the ability to develop a relationship for
6 the -- the last few years of her childhood until she turns
7 18.
8 Now, the child is 15. The child is mobile. The
9 child has capability of contacting people. I‟m sure the
10 Court found the child to be eloquent and -- and capable of
11 communicating, uh, uh, to the Court, uh, what her needs,
12 wants and is capable of doing that.
13 And if any of the concerns that come forward,
14 supposedly -- they‟re unsubstantiated, but have been
15 suggested -- arise, I‟ve tried to make it clear to my
16 client on the stand under oath that she understands,
17 you‟re going to then have grounds to terminate any
18 parenting time/visitation whatever from thence on.
19 And that‟s really where we are. So I would ask the
20 Court to follow the law. To follow what the statutes and
21 the cases say. She‟s presumed to be entitled to parenting
22 time subject to a rebuttable presumption and there‟s been
23 no rebuttal in this courtroom at this time to suggest that
24 she shouldn‟t have anything other than what the Shawnee
25 County Guidelines provide for.

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1 Now, I do recognize that it‟s probably within the
2 purview of the Court to stair step how we get to those
3 Guidelines so that if it‟s maybe some daytime visits on
4 weekends over some period of time before there‟s ever any
5 total adoption, I have no objection to that.
6 I think that may be appropriate to phase this child
7 back into her mother‟s life, uh, over the court of time.
8 But I don‟t think that those have to be supervised because
9 I don‟t think there‟s anything to rebut the presumption of
10 her entitlement.
11 Thank you, Your Honor.
13 Hoffman?
14 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Judge, this case has put Mr.
15 Richardson in a very unenviable position. Of responding
16 to one after another of these motions and other pleadings
17 that are an extension of the lifestyle that Ms. Dombrowski
18 has created out of this case.
19 She has made it clear and the Court can take judicial
20 notice of how clear that she‟s not particularly impressed
21 by virtually anything that this Court has to say that she
22 needs to do to get back into compliance to enjoy the
23 benefits of her daughter‟s company in an unsupervised
24 fashion.
25 You‟ve held her in contempt once recently. I would

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1 submit to you that based on the proffer that was made in
2 the last hearing, you could find her in contempt on that
3 motion -- second motion again.
4 And irrespective of whether there has been a clear
5 and convincing showing of additional posts on the Internet
6 since our last hearing, I think you have enough there to
7 be very concerned at the least as to what her intentions
8 are with regard to the images of Rikki that continue to
9 show up on the Internet.
10 This Court interviewed Rikki in chambers by agreement
11 of the parties. And quite frankly, at 15 years old, this
12 young lady‟s position on the matter carries a lot of
13 weight.
14 Her concern as I understood it that was expressed to
15 you was that all of her friends could go out on the
16 Internet, find out all about her and this case.
17 Another concern was that her mother continued to talk
18 to her about that. Her position, her view of this case.
19 And in my -- our position I suppose would be that that is
20 parental alienation at its worst.
21 Now, Hal Richardson does not sit here wanting his
22 daughter to not have a relationship with her mother. But
23 Rikki is a young lady. She‟s highly involved in school.
24 All of this was brought to the Court‟s attention at the
25 last -- at the in-chambers meeting with Rikki.

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1 The contact that was had throughout the period of
2 time since she‟s been in high school has been trouble --
3 troubling to Rikki and honestly, unsupervised parenting
4 time at this point is really not -- cannot be in Rikki‟s
5 best interest because of the impact on her mental and
6 emotional health.
7 And those two issues, I believe are the basis for
8 which the Court issued its order initially that there were
9 not going to be -- wasn‟t going to be any parenting time
10 until Ms. Dombrowski got back into compliance.
11 She‟s told us that she‟s in compliance. But you know
12 what? She told us she was in compliance once before. So
13 I would simply throw those suggestions out to the Court
14 and again indicate that Mr. Richardson‟s position is not
15 to take the idea that Rikki should not have a relationship
16 with her mother. She should.
17 Unfortunately Ms. Dombrowski has burnt up every
18 resource in this district to help facilitate that through
19 her conduct. And that‟s not Rikki‟s conduct and it‟s not
20 Mr. Richardson‟s conduct.
21 So we would ask you to consider that.
22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Ms. Dykes?
23 MS. JILL DYKES: Thank you, Your Honor. Your
24 Honor, um, first off I would ask the Court, um, to, uh,
25 take judicial notice of the file, uh, that is quite, um,

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1 voluminous in this case, merely because in the short time
2 that I have worked with Rikki, it has only been less than
3 half of the life of the case, I have appeared before at
4 least three judges. I don‟t know if there are more.
5 And so every time we get someone new on the case,
6 it‟s almost like we have to come in and re-educate and re-
7 establish, um, the basis of where we‟re at when we start.
8 Um, I believe you‟ve had, um, ample opportunity to
9 review the documents and the history of the case. I just
10 ask that you, um, rely on some of the information that‟s
11 been provided to the Court that has gotten us to this
12 point.
13 Um, the, uh, recommendation for the supervised visits
14 was made by Rikki‟s own therapist. It was Dr. Rodeheffer
15 who she was seeing who said I think supervised visits
16 would be in -- in Rikki‟s best interest.
17 Um, the Court followed that recommendation, ordered
18 the supervised visits and it was the supervised visits
19 with Safe Visit and then with the Odyssey Group. And the,
20 um, experience that Rikki had during those visits that led
21 to the comments that she made to you in chambers.
22 Um, she shared with you that, uh, at this point in
23 time she doesn‟t want to have visits with her mother.
24 That, um, she is not, um, in a position -- she‟s, uh, I
25 guess just tired. She‟s tired of all of this. And, uh,

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1 she -- she is not desirous at this time of having any
2 visits, let alone unsupervised visits.
3 Um, I question at this time, how we know whether or
4 not Rikki would be safe if she were allowed to have
5 unsupervised contact.
6 Um, at the last hearing that we were at, Ms.
7 Dombrowski provided the Court with what we have been
8 trying to get for two years; an evaluation of her mental
9 health.
10 And in there it says a doctor who is an MD who Mr.
11 Duncan provides today his, um, uh, criteria, um, that he
12 is a medical doctor and therefore in -- insinuates that
13 they want to rely on that diagnosis. But she has a mental
14 illness. Yet she denied that that is correct. She denied
15 that there‟s any further treatment necessary.
16 But in the doctor‟s own report, he says that there is
17 no follow-up visit per the patient‟s request. Not because
18 he said there should be no follow-up visit but because the
19 patient requested that there be no follow-up visit.
20 So I don‟t know how we can ascertain that if -- if
21 Ms. Dombrowski truly does have a mental illness that Rikki
22 would be safe having unsupervised with her.
23 Um, I -- I‟ve asked Rikki -- every -- I think
24 everyone involved in -- in the supervise groups have asked
25 her over and over and over and because at one point we

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1 were moving towards that. Things were going fairly well
2 and we thought, okay, this is -- this is going good. Are
3 you ready to maybe try it?
4 Time and time again she said no. I don‟t feel
5 comfortable having an unsupervised visit. I want that
6 security there. I want that protection there. Even if
7 the supervisor is hanging back and not right there, at
8 least Rikki knew there was somebody there that was going
9 to be there to protect her if things went south.
10 And, um, I ask the Court to acknowledge that and to
11 take that into consideration in making your decision
12 today. I realize that Rikki is -- is just a child. She‟s
13 an incredibly intelligent, bright young lady and while her
14 thoughts, uh, may not be determinative, um, they should,
15 as Mr. Hoffman said, carry weight in this case.
16 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Anything else?
17 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Just very briefly. Um,
18 Ms. Dykes is good at speculating but there‟s nothing
19 factual in what she said.
20 Uh, I can‟t speak as to what the child said, um, and
21 she -- and -- and so as Guardian Ad Litem I guess, uh, you
22 know, it is her role to speak on behalf of the child. And
23 I‟ll have to rely on what the child told the Court.
24 Um, the Court acknowledged, that -- that St. Mary‟s
25 fax, that was sent to the Court last summer. The Court

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1 has had that report for a considerably longer period of
2 time than the parties have. But that -- that -- that
3 report was sent, uh, uh, to the Court, uh, if I can find
4 my copy again, uh, here it is, uh, on 7-15-09, uh, to --
5 to the Court.
6 And in fact it indicates in -- therein that it was.
7 So I, uh, uh, so that report‟s been in the possession of
8 the -- of the Court for an extended period of time as I
9 understand it.
10 Um, supervised parenting time only works when the
11 orders of the Court are enforced by the parent who has the
12 custody of the child. And when Dad allows the child to
13 call in and say, I‟m not coming because I have something
14 else to do, there‟s no assurance there‟s ever going to be
15 parenting time.
16 So what have we ended up with? Yeah, we were getting
17 close to an act -- a time when it might work towards the
18 end of the summer and then all of the sudden the child
19 doesn‟t -- isn‟t -- can‟t make any of the other
20 appointments.
21 So I -- you know, if -- if we adopt what Ms. Dykes
22 wants you to adopt, we‟re back in the same cycle. We will
23 set up parenting time, perhaps at Odyssey Group, perhaps
24 some place else, the child won‟t be there „cause for
25 whatever reason, Dad is not going to comply with the

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1 orders of the Court to make sure that the child attends
2 when the child‟s supposed to attend.
3 I made it very clear in my examination of my client,
4 she understands that when the child has obligations, et
5 cetera that that -- that that‟s what -- that‟s what
6 tantamount.
7 Parenting time with the other parent at a supervised
8 parenting time was an obligation of the child not to be
9 scheduled over by other things. But apparently that
10 didn‟t mean anything. I have no faith that Dad is going
11 to enforce that.
12 What I think we have to do is allow for unsupervised,
13 graduated occasions into a full-blown Court, uh, Shawnee
14 County Guidelines, parenting time, uh, as well as
15 holidays.
16 That‟s what the law demands. And that‟s what we‟re
17 asking the Court to do, enforce the law. Thank you.
18 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Judge, I might suggest to
19 you that there is no evidence before this Court of any
20 sort that Mr. Richardson had any doing in cutting off any
21 supervised parenting time with any of these entities.
22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: No, I hate to
23 say, but Ms. Dombrowski said there were numerous visits
24 that weren‟t made and it was not because of her. That was
25 the only evidence that was before the Court.

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1 You didn‟t put your client on the stand. So I mean
2 if -- whether that‟s correct or not, that is the evidence
3 before the Court.
4 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Well I think the Court‟s
5 restatement --
6 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Go ahead.
7 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- of that evidence is that
8 they weren‟t her fault. She didn‟t suggest that they were
9 Mr. Richardson‟s fault, neither did anybody else other
10 than Counsel in his closing argument.
11 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Let me first
12 start by saying Mr. Duncan is correct in the law. 60-1616
13 (a) says every parent has a right to reasonable parenting
14 time unless the Court finds that exercise -- exercise of
15 parenting time would seriously endanger the child‟s
16 physical, mental, moral or emotional health.
17 He is also correct on the case citings, the Kimbrel
18 case and I have read that case a couple times prior to
19 this hearing as well as before other hearings of this
20 nature.
21 That is the law in this case. Now, the -- this --
22 this is the problem in this case: the supervised parenting
23 time started in 2004 and it started on a reflection of the
24 evidence.
25 The court records in this case, based on a re -- a

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1 request by Rikki‟s therapist. That was six years ago.
2 That therapist has not testified today, nor has any other
3 therapist testified today of that -- the reasons for
4 supervised parenting time in 2004 are still applicable on
5 today‟s date.
6 The Court can only make a decision based on the
7 evidence in this case. This case is a long case. It was
8 filed in 1996. There -- there‟s volumes of motions in
9 this case.
10 And the Court can take judicial notice of the file in
11 this case but child support -- excuse me, parenting time
12 and residency are changing issues during the life of a
13 divorce case.
14 What -- the decision that is made one day will not
15 hold true for eternity. So the reasons for the supervised
16 parenting time in 2004 aren‟t present today in this
17 hearing.
18 There‟s been no evidence that those -- that those
19 reasons are here today. The other thing is, Rikki is much
20 older today. She is not 15 year of age.
21 That -- the need to protect her as a young child if
22 that need was there and I think I -- I‟m looking at the
23 past record in this case there -- there was a reason for
24 that.
25 It is not necessarily present today when she is 15

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1 years of age at this point in time. At the request of the
2 parties the Court interviewed Rikki in camera with the
3 Guardian Ad Litem present and that was appropriate because
4 it was a young lady. It was appropriate to have a third
5 party there.
6 That third party, Ms. Dykes in this case, did not ask
7 questions. The Court asked those questions. I gave a
8 recitation of my interview with Rikki at that point in
9 time.
10 I told the parties and they were well -- well aware
11 of it that if she -- she is a very sharp young lady. She
12 has an opinion and she expressed that opinion. What she
13 was most concerned about was the -- the publication of her
14 name, her photograph on her mother‟s Web sites.
15 That‟s what she was most concerned about. Now, Mr.
16 Duncan is correct though that the law does not allow a
17 child to determine the parenting time between that child
18 and the parent.
19 The Court has to make that decision and can only make
20 it in conjunction with the child‟s request if the Court
21 finds that due to that request any parenting time would
22 seriously endanger the child‟s physical, mental, moral or
23 emotional health in this particular case.
24 We have a situation in which in September of 2000 --
25 September 27th, 2006, Ms. Dombrowski was ordered by Judge

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1 Johnson at that point in time that she was to withdraw any
2 and all likenesses of Rikki over which she had control
3 that may be appearing on the Internet or any other public
4 places or public access and further that Ms. Dombrowski
5 was not to present the child at any public rallies,
6 demonstrations, newscasts or otherwise, publicize the name
7 -- the child‟s name or likeness in furtherance of Ms.
8 Dombrowski‟s efforts in the instant case.
9 Ms. Dombrowski was not prevented about talking about
10 the case, about sharing any of her past instances
11 regarding what had happened to her with -- with anybody
12 else in this case. There was no gag order. There was a
13 simple, small order that prevented her from in -- from
14 including the child into her activities.
15 That was -- that was violated and we had that hearing
16 on April 4th, 2009. I think it was April 4th. It was
17 about that time.
18 The Court found that as of April 4th, those
19 photographs were still accessible, that as of April 6th,
20 they were no longer accessible and I think that was due to
21 the assistance of Mr. Duncan and his -- his son in
22 removing as many of those -- of those items that they
23 could.
24 The publications that were still under the control of
25 Ms. Dombrowski -- and that was the order in this case.

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1 The Court found that she was in indirect contempt. It
2 imposed a fine. It imposed a jail time but it also
3 allowed Ms. Dombrowski to purge herself of that contempt.
4 And she did by making best efforts to remove all the items
5 that she had access to at that point in time.
6 Ms. Dombrowski never served any jail time as a result
7 of this particular case.
8 There are two issues here today. One is the -- the
9 show cause requesting that Ms. Dombrowski be found in
10 contempt of court.
11 The affidavit that was filed with the motion to
12 appear and show cause was a requirement of the law. There
13 has to be an affidavit. That puts Ms. Dombrowski in this
14 case, on notice as to what it is that she has done so that
15 she can mount a defense in that situation.
16 However, that is not evidence of itself. That puts
17 her on notice of what the allegations are. This hearing
18 today was a hearing for those two issues; the motion for
19 parenting time and the motion to find Ms. Dombrowski in
20 contempt.
21 There has been no evidence provided today that Ms.
22 Dombrowski intentionally violated the Court‟s previous
23 order on April 6, 2009 or the order that this Court
24 imposed once again after finding her in contempt.
25 So for that reason, the Court will refuse to find Ms.

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1 Dombrowski in contempt of court.
2 I want to reiterate though, that the original hearing
3 -- order of Judge Johnson still applies in this case and
4 that applies continuously in this particular case.
5 I have told -- I have mentioned that it is not
6 Rikki‟s sole determination to determine whether she or
7 anybody in her like situation for them to determine -- for
8 the child to determine whether they will have parenting
9 time or not.
10 There have been issues in this case. There have been
11 many issues in this case. I have been in -- involved in
12 this case for a short period of time. But during that
13 period of time there have been numerous motions filed in
14 this case.
15 Ms. Dombrowski filed numerous motions and at one time
16 I had to -- I had to issue an order preventing her from
17 filing any motions unless she first had permission of the
18 Court because the motions were not -- they did not abide
19 by the law. They did not raise factual allegations. They
20 were not valid motions to be filed and to be heard.
21 They did not allege sufficient facts. However, at
22 this point in time, we come to this hearing and I find
23 that the reasons for the order of supervised parenting
24 time in 2004 do not exist at this point in time, based on
25 the evidence that was presented in this hearing.

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1 Rikki is older. She is 15 years of age. She has
2 some concerns and she has some wishes. Her wish was not
3 to have parenting time. But that was based on the fact
4 that her image and her likeness and things about her were
5 published through her mother on the Web.
6 I have reiterated that order that prevented Ms.
7 Dombrowski from doing that. There were issues on April
8 6th, 2009 as a continuing order.
9 Further, Rikki had -- had concerns that her mother
10 talked to her not only about the divorce case, but her
11 relationship with Mr. Richardson, but also about
12 proceedings.
13 She didn‟t want to be told anything that was going on
14 in this case. That is a normal issue. That is a normal
15 order in any divorce case that the parents are not to talk
16 to their minor children about what happens in -- in the
17 divorce case, what happens in the proceedings, what
18 happens in the hearings, what they‟re going to do or
19 anything else.
20 That will poison the minor children about one or --
21 toward or against one or the other parents. That is a
22 normal order and that order stands at this point in time.
23 And in fact, it‟s applicable to both parties that neither
24 party is to speak to Rikki about the proceedings or about
25 this divorce case or about their relationship with each

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1 other.
2 It does not present -- prevent them from talking to
3 anybody else they choose in the world. But they cannot
4 talk to their daughter. They cannot poison the well in
5 this situation.
6 For these reasons, I find that it is not in -- it is
7 not against Rikki‟s best interest and in fact it is in her
8 best interest that she have a relationship with both her
9 parents in this case.
10 Due to the fact that there has been such an extended
11 period of time in which Ms. Dombrowski has not seen her
12 daughter, we are going to start with a smaller schedule
13 than what she requested through her Counsel.
14 We are going to start with unsupervised parenting
15 time though. And it will be at this point in time, every
16 Sunday from 1:00 PM to 3:00 PM.
17 And there are two -- Rikki, as -- as I understand it
18 can drive. Does she have a car available to her?
19 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: No, sir, she --
20 MS. JILL DYKES: She cannot drive.
22 MS. JILL DYKES: She only has a temporary little
23 permit.
24 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. At this
25 point in time, Ms. Dombrowski lives under a confidential -

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1 - confidential address. So she‟s going to be responsible
2 -- can you drive, Ms. Dombrowski?
3 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Yeah, we understand.
4 She‟s --
5 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: You‟re able --
6 you‟re able to drive? Okay.
7 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes, sir.
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: You will have
9 the responsibility of picking Rikki up at, by 1:00
10 o‟clock, not earlier, and returning her by 3:00 o‟clock,
11 not later. Okay? Every Sunday at this point in time.
12 You can take her anywhere within the confines of
13 Shawnee County. You cannot take her to any public
14 rallies, newscasts, demonstrations or anything of that
15 nature and that‟s the same way as the original order on
16 April 6, 2009.
17 It doesn‟t prevent you from engaging in those things.
18 It just prevents you from taking your daughter to those
19 activities. Do you understand that order, Ms. Dombrowski?
20 Ms. Dombrowski, do you understand my order?
21 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes, Your Honor, I do.
22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: There are two
23 ways to handle this. One is parenting time. That is a
24 right that is given to you under the Constitution
25 basically.

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1 It is a Constitutional Right. The other is the
2 ability of the Court to find individuals in contempt of
3 court if they violate their orders.
4 In this situation, I will find you in contempt of
5 court as well as I would Mr. Richardson if either one of
6 you violate the orders of the Court.
7 But I‟m not going to unless it becomes so egregious
8 it affects the mental stability, emotional needs or
9 physical needs of the child, I would -- I would not want
10 to cut down your parenting time.
11 But I would find you in contempt of court. Now, I
12 have had you in my court before and for the short period
13 of time that I have been in -- involved in this case, you
14 have done things that are not appropriate.
15 Do you understand what I am ordering in this case?
16 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes, I do.
17 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I want to make
18 sure that we are clear on that.
19 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes.
20 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: That means you
21 do not -- you do not return Rikki at 3:05 or 3:10. Do you
22 understand?
23 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes, Your Honor.
25 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Your Honor, you --

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1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: You -- you --
2 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- uh, Counsel have --
3 think that the exchange should -- would best take place at
4 the TPD. In other words Dad would agree --
5 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Do you want to
6 do that?
7 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Yeah.
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Ms.
9 Dombrowski, is that okay with you?
10 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Most definitely.
11 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: That is a video
12 type area, they can take videos. We‟ll do it at the Law
13 Enforcement Agent then at this point in time.
14 Like I said, there is a set period of time in which
15 you have parenting time. Do not expand that without the
16 court order. We will get to that in just a second, okay?
17 Likewise, you‟re -- you‟re limited to the area of
18 Shawnee County at this point in time and that‟s based on
19 past activities that you engaged in with Rikki a number of
20 years ago.
21 Let‟s see how you work, okay? Now as I noted,
22 neither parent can have any discussion about the court
23 proceeding or the court case or about either parent with
24 Rikki.
25 You also have -- will -- you should have the ability

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1 -- do you have telephone contact at this time? Every
2 Tuesday and Thursday from 7:00 o‟clock to 8:00 o‟clock PM,
3 you can call Rikki and you‟re probably going to have to
4 find out also when she‟s available because of her school
5 activities.
6 But between that time, a telephone call that does not
7 exceed a half an hour. Is that okay with you?
8 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes, Your Honor.
9 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Now --
10 MS. JILL DYKES: Your Honor, um, can that be
11 8:00 to 9:00 just because of Rikki‟s schedule? She‟s
12 involved in activities after school that take her up to
13 later times.
14 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay, is 8:00
15 to 9:00 okay with you?
16 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Or we can adjust it to
17 Rikki‟s schedule.
18 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: We need --
19 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Oh, yes.
20 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- we‟re -- we‟re going
21 to get a time.
23 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: 8:00 to 9:00, yes.
24 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Well, and what
25 we‟ll do is I‟d like to set a set time, half hour --

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1 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Right.
2 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- in that time
3 and then Rikki is 15 so if you and she agree that it
4 needs to be a little bit later, a little bit earlier,
5 that‟s fine.
6 But I want to give you -- make sure that you have the
7 right to call, okay?
8 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Thank you.
9 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay? We‟ll do
10 it between 8:00 and 9:00 Tuesdays and Thursdays.
11 You will still be -- you will be ordered to pay off
12 the amount that you owe to Odyssey for your past costs
13 that you‟ve incurred on supervised parenting time in that
14 situation.
15 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Mm-hm.
16 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Now, I want to
17 do two things. I want to review this case in 30 days.
18 What I‟m specifically look at is at that point in time is
19 should we expand the amount of parenting time.
20 And Ms. Dombrowski, this is what you wish; is that
21 correct?
22 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: Yes.
23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. So that
24 gives you 30 days to show everybody that it will work and
25 you‟re trying to make it work.

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1 My next alternative is to order the parties back in
2 case management and that is -- that --
3 MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI: No.
4 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- no that --
5 that is not -- but I‟ve looked at the file in this case
6 and I‟ve looked at the pleadings and the motion.
7 My next alternative is to do that because I -- in
8 that situation, I would need a neutral party that could
9 make recommendations.
10 I‟m not -- I‟m not going to do that at this point in
11 time but I want everybody to know that‟s my next
12 alternative.
13 Now --
14 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Your Honor?
15 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yes?
16 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I would have no problem
17 and would hope that Ms. Dykes would visit with the child
18 after the Sunday visits and if there‟s issues, let us know
19 ASAP and not wait 30 days to all the sudden say, oh, by
20 the way --
21 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yeah.
22 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- so if we have a visit
23 next Sunday and there‟s a problem, I -- Ms. Dykes, call,
24 allow us to know. We‟ll try to, you know, which will then
25 make this productive as opposed to waiting --

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1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: I think --
2 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- 30 days and --
3 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- I think
4 that‟s --
5 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- then it‟s sort of --
6 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- very
7 appropriate.
8 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- gotcha, Your Honor.
9 MS. JILL DYKES: I -- I have actually no problem
10 doing that, Your Honor. I would just ask, Rikki has said
11 to me over and over again that she does not want to go to
12 her mother‟s house.
13 She doesn‟t know where Mom lives. She -- she just
14 doesn‟t want to go somewhere where -- where no -- where
15 Dad doesn‟t know where she is. Dad‟s not able to know
16 what the address of Mom‟s house is.
17 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Your -- Your Honor, we
18 have no problems that --
19 MS. JILL DYKES: Okay.
20 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: -- that the -- that the -
21 - that the initial two-hour visits over the next 30 days
22 will be at public places.
23 MS. JILL DYKES: Thank you.
24 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Whether that be at the
25 zoo or going to the McDonald‟s or just, you know, TPAC or

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1 something of that nature.
2 So we can do that and -- and -- in that regard.
4 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: And she‟s old enough to
5 go report back to Ms. Dykes that yes, that‟s where we went
6 was a public place.
7 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay and -- and
8 I think having Ms. Dykes converse with -- with Rikki after
9 Ms. Dombrowski‟s parenting time is a good idea.
10 If something needs to be addressed, let‟s address it
11 through Counsel at that point in time. Let‟s not wait for
12 30 days and then say, hey, it didn‟t work out.
13 Today is January 28th. That parenting time will
14 start this weekend, this Sunday. So I‟m looking -- I‟d
15 like to set something up around the first of March then.
16 I don‟t think we need a very long hearing.
17 But what I‟m looking at is, is -- I‟m looking at
18 how‟s it going? Is -- should it be expanded or was --
19 does it need to be restricted back to supervised or -- or
20 whatever else.
21 So tell me how your schedules look.
22 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Is the Court contemplating
23 that this be a meeting with Counsel with the Court? I mean
24 it --
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: What I‟m looking

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1 is -- is -- is you have requested a Shawnee County
2 parenting time --
3 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Right.
4 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- Guidelines
5 and I think that‟s what the goal is, to work into that if
6 everything works right.
7 So what I‟m looking at is, you know, I -- you know,
8 if there‟s problems that we need to address or that this
9 point in time in March, if there aren‟t problems and you
10 agree to some type of expanded parenting time, that‟s
11 fine.
12 If you --
13 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I‟m available --
14 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- if you don‟t
15 agree and we need to having a hearing on it, I need to
16 make a decision then I‟ll do it at that point in time.
17 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I‟m available the first
18 week of March. I‟m in DC the 8th and 9th and again on the
19 15th, 16th and 17th.
20 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Mr. Hoffman and
21 Ms. Dykes, how are you?
22 MS. JILL DYKES: If -- if you can give me a date
23 and time, I can tell you, Your Honor, I can‟t --
24 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yeah, I -- I --
25 my -- my whole week I have hearings the whole week but

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1 what I‟m thinking, I could set this at 8:00 o‟clock in the
2 morning one morning if that‟s -- that‟s not good? I‟m --
3 I‟m sorry.
4 MS. JILL DYKES: I can be here by 8:30.
6 MS. JILL DYKES: But I can‟t pull off 8:00
7 o‟clock.
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Okay,
9 let me -- what about Tuesday the 2nd of March at 8:30?
10 MS. JILL DYKES: That‟s fine.
11 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I believe that‟s all
12 right. May I have the Court‟s permission to call the
13 keeper of my calendar?
14 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Yes. Mr.
15 Hoffman, how is that --
16 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: That‟s fine, Judge.
17 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: I have been -- I have
18 been banned from keeping my calendar. You laugh. It‟s
19 true. Do you have the calendar in front of you please?
20 March -- March 2nd at 8:30?
22 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: 2nd. It‟s a Tuesday.
23 Yeah, okay. Mark out Division 13. Thank you, bye. We‟re
24 set.
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay, March 2nd

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1 at 8:30. I have a half an hour right now. I‟m thinking
2 that is sufficient time.
3 If we have major issues, a half an hour isn‟t going
4 to do it. And -- but if we don‟t have -- well, let‟s just
5 see what we -- where we‟re at, okay?
6 Does anybody have any questions about today‟s order?
7 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: No, Your Honor.
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Mr. Hoffman?
9 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: No, Judge, the only thing I
10 would mention is, uh, not -- I don‟t think it was the last
11 hearing but the hearing before that, the issue of Rikki‟s
12 orthodontics came up. I believe it was raised by Mr.
13 Duncan.
14 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Right.
15 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: And I believe the Court may
16 have issued an order at that point directing my client to
17 obtain, I -- maybe even an estimate of the cost of that.
18 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: On September
19 17th, the parties agreed that the Petitioner would have --
20 the parties agree that the Petitioner would have the child
21 looked at by two other orthodontists within 60 days and
22 share estimates of cost with the Respondent.
23 Both parties are responsible for half of all the
24 orthodontic care for the minor child. That‟s my notes.
25 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: My understanding is she‟s

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1 already got braces.
2 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Correct. With Doctors
3 Hamilton and Wilson.
4 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Did she
5 have them before that date or -- or --
6 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: No.
7 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- I mean --
8 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: No, no.
9 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Mr. Richardson went and got
10 her evaluated and entered into an agreement with those
11 folks to perform the services. And it is the low -- lower
12 cost of the bids I believe that were obtained.
13 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Is there
14 an -- have you seen the cost or anything else?
15 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: No.
16 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Can you
17 share the -- well my order was -- let‟s see, I had both
18 parties responsible for half of all the orthodontic care.
19 I need to have you provide Mr. Duncan --
21 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- the
22 estimates and then with the cost that -- that this
23 orthodontic, with Mr. Hamilton -- is that who it‟s with?
24 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Dr. Hamilton --
25 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Dr. Hamilton --

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1 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: -- yes.
2 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: -- what his
3 cost is. Give them a chance to review that and then we
4 can take that up.
5 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: That‟s fine.
6 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: If he‟ll just follow the
7 Guidelines, I‟ll -- I‟ll process it and --
8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Anything
9 else?
10 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: No.
11 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Mr. Duncan, you
12 get to do the order.
13 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Yes, sir, I figured that
14 was the case.
15 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Thank
16 you.
17 Anything else for today‟s hearing?
18 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: No, appreciate the
19 Court‟s courtesy, thank you.
20 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. That‟s
21 the order. We are adjourned.
22 [END OF HEARING]
23
24
25

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C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Carol A. Roberts certify that the foregoing transcript
of proceedings in the District Court of Shawnee County, Kansas,
In the Matter of Richardson and Dombrowski, Docket No. 96-D-
217, held on January 29, 2010, was prepared using standard
electronic transcription equipment and is a true and accurate
record of the proceedings to the best of my knowledge and
ability.
Signature _________________________
Date ______May 4, 2010_____

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ERRATA SHEET FOR TRANSCRIPT OF ____________
RE: _________________ DATE HEARD: ________
PAGE LINE # CORRECTION REASON
NAME
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO THIS
_____ DAY OF _________, 200___

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2010 Jan 29 Transcript Hearing Richardson V Dombrowski

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IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF SHAWNEE COUNTY, KANSAS

IN THE MATTER OF: )

PROCEEDINGS had before the HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM,

The Petitioner Mr. Halleck Richardson appeared in person

The Respondent Ms. Claudine Dombrowski appeared in person

The Minor Child appeared not but by and through her

Transcribed by: Carol A. Roberts, CSR

MS. CLAUDINE DOMBROWSKI

Direct Examination by Mr. Duncan . . . . . 12

PETITIONER DESCRIPTION Offered Admitted

2B Blog post material -- --

RESPONDENT DESCRIPTION Offered Admitted

By Mr. Duncan . . . . .47

By Mr. Duncan . . . . .58

Integrity Transcription, Carol A. Roberts, Certified Shorthand Reporter

1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Court will call

2 the Case of Hal Richardson and Claudine Dombrowski, 96-D-

3 217. Appearances for the Court, please?

4 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Mr. Richardson appears in

5 person and through Counsel, Jason Hoffman, Your Honor.

6 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Ms. Dombrowski appears in

7 person and with her Counsel, Robert E. Duncan, II.

8 MS. JILL DYKES: May it please the Court, the

9 Minor Child appears not but by and through Guardian Ad

10 Litem Jill Dykes.

11 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. There was

12 a previous order in this case that Ms. Dombrowski‟s cell

13 phone would need to be given to her Counsel during the

14 course of any hearing because of unauthorized taping of a

15 previous hearing in violation of the District Court Rules.

16 So has that -- thank you very much, Ms. Dombrowski.

17 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Turn it off, please.

18 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Today I believe

19 we have two motions. One is the -- Ms. Dombrowski‟s

20 motion I believe for -- it was unsupervised parenting time

21 if I‟m not mistaken?

22 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Yes, Your Honor.

23 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: And then the

24 other was the motion for an order to -- or was the -- was

25 the motion on a show cause to find the -- Ms. Dombrowski

Integrity Transcription, Carol A. Roberts, Certified Shorthand Reporter

2 Are those the two motions we‟re here on today?

3 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Yes, sir.

4 MR. ROBERT DUNCAN II: Yes, Your Honor.

5 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Are we

7 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Yes, sir.

8 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Okay. Mr.

9 Hoffman, it‟s your motion so if you want to go ahead and

10 call your first witness?

11 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: Judge, I didn‟t -- or I

12 don‟t, I should say, intend to call any witnesses, uh,

13 today on that motion.

14 The motion was essentially continued by agreement as

15 I understood it, to allow some additional time for

16 clients. There was a document that was proffered by

17 agreement of the parties at the time of the last hearing

19 Uh, that would be the sum and substance of the

20 evidence that would be offered related to that particular,

22 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: Was that the

24 MR. JASON HOFFMAN: I believe that‟s correct,

Integrity Transcription, Carol A. Roberts, Certified Shorthand Reporter

1 HONORABLE JUDGE DAVID DEBENHAM: This one here?