IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings 23 July 2019

1 Tuesday, 23 July 2019
2 (2.00 pm)
3 Welcome and opening remarks by THE CHAIR
4 THE CHAIR: Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Alexis Jay
5 and I am the chair of the Independent Inquiry into Child
6 Sexual Abuse. Sitting with me are the other panel
7 members of the Inquiry: Professor Sir Malcolm Evans,
8 Ivor Frank and Drusilla Sharpling.
9 On behalf of the inquiry, I welcome you all to this,
10 the first preliminary hearing in the Investigation into
11 Child Protection in Religious Organisations and
12 Settings. This is the latest investigation initiated as
13 part of the inquiry's work.
14 As you by now know, the investigation is going to be
15 a thematic one which will review the current child
16 protection policies, practices and procedures in
17 religious institutions in England and Wales. It is
18 separate from our investigations into the Anglican and
19 Roman Catholic Churches. It will examine other
20 religious organisations and settings, including, but not
21 limited to, non-conformist Christian denominations,
22 other Christian denominations, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism,
23 Hinduism and Buddhism.
24 The purpose of today's preliminary hearing is
25 threefold: to update core participants about the work
1 which has been done to date on this investigation and
2 the work which will be done over the course of the
3 coming months; to hear renewed applications for core
4 participant status on behalf of a number of individuals
5 and one organisation; and, thirdly, to consider any
6 other issues which core participants wish to raise.
7 Before we hear from leading counsel to this
8 investigation, Fiona Scolding QC, who will introduce
9 those present, a word about timing. We hope to finish
10 today by 4.15 and we will take a short break at around
11 3.15 for 15 minutes.
12 Please go ahead, Ms Scolding.
13 Opening remarks by MS SCOLDING
14 MS SCOLDING: Good afternoon, chair and panel. I am
15 Ms Fiona Scolding, leading counsel to this investigation
16 on my left sits Mr Olinga Tahzib, junior counsel to this
17 investigation. My learned friend Ms Nikita McNeill is
18 also counsel to this investigation, but she is not
19 present today.
20 As you have already identified, chair, this is the
21 first preliminary hearing into the investigation
22 concerning child protection in religious organisations
23 and settings in England and Wales.
24 The purpose of today's hearing is to provide
25 information about the work that the investigation has

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1 been carrying out and to discuss the process and
2 framework for the hearings which are scheduled to begin
3 on 16 March 2020. Each core participant has been sent
4 an agenda for today.
5 I will seek to explain what we have been doing,
6 where we are now and what we will be doing to include,
7 first, the scope of the investigation and the broad
8 themes and issues that we wish to explore.
9 Second, the material and witness requests this
10 investigation has asked for and will ask for.
11 Thirdly, when it receives this information and
12 material, how it will review, redact and circulate it --
13 known as "disclosure" to those of us who are lawyers --
14 to those who are core participants in advance of the
15 hearing.
16 Next, I will discuss directions about the
17 broadcasting of the hearing.
18 Then I will discuss the issue of funding available
19 under the Inquiries Act.
20 Last, I will map out the future timetable.
21 After I have finished speaking, we will deal with
22 the renewal applications for core participant status,
23 chair and panel, and then we will hear briefly from
24 Mr Barker of Hugh James, who represents a group called
25 the Ex-JW Advocates Opposing Crimes Against Children and
1 then briefly from the Jehovah's Witnesses in reply.
2 Finally, there will be the opportunity for anything
3 else from core participants.
4 Chair, I will now introduce you to the individuals
5 who sit in the room, together with their various
6 representatives.
7 Firstly to my right, Richard Scorer, solicitor of
8 Slater & Gordon. He represents the following
9 organisations: firstly, Southall Black Sisters an
10 organisation representing women and girls subjected to
11 violence, including sexual violence, within the African,
12 Afro-Caribbean and South Asian communities. He also
13 represents Ms Lisa Oakley, who is chair of the National
14 Working Group on child abuse linked to faith and belief.
15 Ms Yasmin Rehman, the Chief Executive of JUNO Women's
16 Aid, formerly the Women's Aid Integrated Services, an
17 organisation representing women and girls subject to
18 sexual violence.
19 Then Ms Sadia Hameed, the director of
20 Gloucestershire Sisters, an organisation for black and
21 ethnic minority women and girls dealing with issues
22 around violence, including sexual abuse.
23 Last, the Interfaith Alliance, a group of Muslim,
24 Jewish and Hindu faith leaders working on issues of
25 sexual abuse within faith communities.

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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 Mr Scorer may be representing, but it is still not
2 clear, an organisation called Migdal Emunah, which is
3 a advocacy group for victims and survivors of sexual
4 abuse within the Jewish community.
5 Next, sat on the other benches, is Mr Samuel Barker,
6 solicitor of Hugh James, who acts on behalf of the
7 organisation I've already mentioned called the Ex-JW
8 Advocates Opposing Crimes Against Children. I think
9 their name probably speaks for themselves.
10 Behind me is the Charity Commission, represented
11 today by Mr Felix Rechtman, head of litigation.
12 Next to him are Ofsted, represented today by
13 Ms Hannett of counsel. Then next to her is the Home
14 Office represented by Ms Sian Reeves of counsel.
15 Turning to the benches at the back, one has the
16 Pagan Federation. Present today is Mr Mike Stygal,
17 vice-president, he is in the corner at the rear, chair
18 and panel. Then, further along on that bench, is the
19 United Reformed Church. Present today are
20 Mr Richard Church, the deputy general secretary, and
21 Sharron Barr, the Wessex Synod Safeguarding Officer.
22 In the front row are the Baptist Union of Great
23 Britain, represented today by Ms Ijeoma Omambala of
24 counsel.
25 Then seated in one of the benches in the corner is
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1 Firstly, Mr Scorer will be renewing an application
2 on behalf of Mr James Lloyd Evans who provides advocacy
3 and representation services for those who used to be
4 members of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
5 Next to Mr Scorer is Mr Manny Waks, the director of
6 an organisation called Kol v'Oz, which provides advocacy
7 and representation to Jewish victims and survivors of
8 abuse on a worldwide basis.
9 Turning to my left, one has Mr Thomas Beale,
10 solicitor of Bolt Burdon Kemp, who is representing
11 individuals whom we are calling today PR-A5, PR-A6 and
12 PR-A9.
13 Turning first to the scope of the investigation, as
14 those sitting in this room know, the inquiry has spent
15 a significant time examining the child protection
16 practices, policies and processes which exist within the
17 Church of England, the Church in Wales and the Roman
18 Catholic Church within England and Wales. There have
19 been case studies into the actions of particular
20 institutions associated with those religions, as well as
21 general hearings into the state of child protection
22 within those organisations as a whole.
23 This inquiry recognises, however, that this provides
24 only a partial picture, as it excludes many other
25 religious organisations and faith groups which provide
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1 the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses
2 represented today by Mr Shane Brady of counsel.
3 One also has the Evangelical Alliance, who are
4 seated on the second bench. Present today are
5 Ms Jo Frost, Director of Communications, and
6 Mr Simon McCrossan, the head of public policy.
7 Then seated, again, next to the Jehovah's Witnesses,
8 are the United Synagogue represented today by
9 Mr David Frei, the Director of Legal Services.
10 Turning back again, to the second bench along, in
11 the corner, just in front of Mr Stygal, are
12 representatives from Liberal Judaism. Present today are
13 Ms Rebecca Fetterman, Director of Youth and Students,
14 and Ms Shelley Shocolinsky-Dwyer, the Operations
15 Director.
16 Turning to the benches directly behind Mr Scorer,
17 one then has the Union of Hebrew Congregations. Present
18 today is Mr Joel Friedman and also Rabbi Baumgarten.
19 Last, but by no means least, Thirtyone:eight,
20 a training and advisory organisation. Present today are
21 Mr Justin Humphreys, the Chief Executive, and
22 Mr Andrew Pierce, the chair of trustees, and they are
23 sitting on the rear benches.
24 I also introduce those who are renewing their
25 application for core participant status today.
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1 valuable and essential services to children and young
2 people, by which I mean people under the age of 18. It
3 wishes, therefore, to enquire into how other religious
4 organisations and faith groups keep children safe from
5 the risk of sexual abuse and sexual exploitation.
6 We live in a multi-faith society with many religious
7 traditions and beliefs. Those brought up in particular
8 traditions wish to pass on their faith to their children
9 and engage them in the communal religious ceremonies
10 which take place in nearly every religious organisation.
11 They also wish to educate them about their beliefs and
12 religious ceremonies and rituals by way, for example, of
13 afterschool tuition, groups or other forms of study.
14 They may also want to provide places where children can
15 engage in leisure, social or other recreational
16 activities. These services are often run by volunteers
17 within the religious community or faith tradition.
18 All of this valuable work within our society means
19 that children often spend time, whilst not at school as
20 part of these organisations, receiving education,
21 assistance or other forms of religious and spiritual
22 guidance.
23 Such guidance is often woven into the fabric of
24 a child's upbringing and is a central part of their
25 identity.
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 We recognise that religious organisations have the
2 promotion of good, of morality, of civic responsibility
3 and of selflessness as central features of their
4 doctrines and creeds.
5 We recognise that the vast majority of individuals
6 in those organisations adhere to and promote those
7 values and beliefs.
8 But we also know that some individuals do use
9 religious organisations and settings to perpetrate child
10 sexual abuse. Our definition of child sexual abuse is
11 that which involves forcing or enticing a child or young
12 person to take part in sexual activities. These
13 activities may involve physical contact or looking at or
14 being part of the production of sexual images, watching
15 sexual activities or encouraging children to act in ways
16 which are sexually inappropriate for their age and
17 development, or grooming a child in preparation for such
18 activities, whether in person or by way of any internet
19 or social media channels.
20 Prior to launching this investigation, we undertook
21 a scoping exercise, meeting with many religious
22 organisations and groups to ask them about child
23 protection in their organisation and the changes they
24 think would be appropriate or are needed to make
25 children safer.
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1 witness or share in their faith and beliefs.
2 For example, a Gurdwara, a mosque, a temple,
3 a synagogue, a Friends Meeting House or a church.
4 Secondly, places where children receive tuition or
5 education regarding their religion or cultural or other
6 practices related to religious observance after school,
7 or out of school, but not within a home setting with
8 their family: for example, learning the Koran in
9 a madrassah; studying the Torah in a yeshiva; Christian
10 Sunday school teaching; or groups of bible study.
11 Next, places which offer social, leisure or
12 recreational facilities, associated with, run by or
13 organised under the auspices of, or in connection with,
14 the individual or their parents' religious beliefs: for
15 example, youth groups; holiday clubs; summer camps.
16 We will not be investigating or examining child
17 protection practices in full time education. We define
18 schools as full-time education or something which looks
19 like it: for example, alternative education provision
20 run by, organised by or under the auspices of any
21 religious organisation.
22 We will also not be looking at tuition provided by
23 parents at home pursuant to section 7 of the
24 Education Act 1996.
25 We will also not be examining voluntary youth
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1 The themes and issues raised by these meetings have
2 informed this investigation and, as I explain below,
3 will be covered in it. We would like to thank each and
4 every one of you who came to meet us to discuss these
5 issues. Your thoughts, ideas and views have been
6 extremely useful and will continue to be so.
7 The cooperation, courtesy and frankness you have
8 shown to date we hope will be replicated during the
9 course of the rest of this investigation.
10 We have sought to identify by announcing this
11 investigation, that we wish to examine a wide range of
12 institutions and organisations which have a more than
13 minimal presence within England and Wales. As the chair
14 has already identified, this includes all forms of the
15 Christian tradition, Islam and Judaism, Sikhs, Hindus,
16 Jain, Buddhist, Pagan, non-Trinitarian religious
17 organisations and other new religious movements.
18 We have sought to identify what we consider to be
19 a religious setting or organisation which is wide in
20 scope and nature and can take a multitude of forms. We
21 do not wish to be prescriptive as we recognise that
22 there is provision of a wide variety of facilities,
23 services, traditions and ways of religious observance,
24 but consider that it does include places where people
25 gather to engage in collective rituals, designed to bear
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1 provision, which may be situated in a religious setting:
2 for example, where non-religious organisations hire
3 a church hall or community centre allied with
4 a religious organisation but are not related to it.
5 In line with other hearings, I will generally refer,
6 during the course of this investigation, to those who
7 have made allegations of child sexual abuse as
8 "complainants", except where there has been either
9 a criminal trial which has resulted in a conviction or
10 where the fact of abuse has been established by way of
11 civil justice proceedings, family justice proceedings or
12 disciplinary or other regulatory proceedings, in which
13 case the description "victim" or "survivor" will be
14 applied.
15 An important facet of this investigation is the
16 experience of complainants, victims and survivors. The
17 inquiry hopes, in particular through the core
18 participant groups designated by it, but not exclusively
19 through them, to give victims and survivors the
20 opportunities to present their views and for them to
21 recommend changes to the current system from their
22 perspective. We are extremely pleased that groups have
23 come forward and they will play a full part in our
24 investigation.
25 As many people in this room will know, the inquiry
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 recently published an analysis of accounts provided to
2 the Truth Project, a separate part of the inquiry from
3 these investigations in which individuals come forward
4 to share their experiences.
5 The recent analysis identified a number of notable
6 characteristics that make the experience of those who
7 have been the subject of child sexual abuse in religious
8 settings potentially different to those who are abused
9 in other contexts.
10 In particular, from what can only be a partial
11 account of those who have come forward by way of the
12 Truth Project, the abuse often took place in the context
13 of a family life that was often orientated around
14 religion, parents were often proud and encouraged the
15 involvement in religious institutions, and the
16 institution often permeated all aspects of their lives,
17 structuring their social and leisure activities,
18 structuring sometimes their schooling and even
19 employment.
20 Perpetrators often, therefore, had access to all
21 aspects of a child's life, including their homes, where
22 the perpetrator was often looked up to and welcomed as
23 a privileged and honoured guest.
24 Because of the high esteem in which these
25 perpetrators were often held by the families and others
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1 they came forward, on some occasions, to disclose abuse,
2 they were either discredited or paid off and sometimes
3 the congregations or other members of the community,
4 wishing to protect the institution, would belittle those
5 who made disclosures or seek to minimise them or not
6 believe the accounts given.
7 A consequence of the abuse for the victims and
8 survivors who have come forward were the mental health
9 difficulties arising which often lasted a lifetime.
10 They also identified fractured and disconnected
11 relationships with their parents and other family
12 members, which again fed into a cycle of poor emotional
13 health.
14 However, the loss of either their religious faith
15 and, in some cases, their religious community, has
16 a specific impact upon those abused within the context
17 of a religious organisation and setting.
18 Victims could sometimes not reconcile their
19 religious beliefs by being sexually abused by someone
20 seen as a representative of God. This has led, in some
21 cases, to a profound loss which is impossible to
22 quantify.
23 The issues that we will examine in this
24 investigation include the sort of community and
25 religious activities and education undertaken by the
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1 around them, whether or not they occupied religious
2 offices, the families involved often viewed those
3 individuals, who then turned out to be perpetrators, to
4 have a special place in the life of those whom they
5 abused, seeing it as their children being marked out as
6 special or it being a privilege for that individual to
7 take an interest in them.
8 The perpetrators of abuse in some religious
9 institutions often went on to have long and
10 distinguished careers within them, sometimes despite
11 disclosures of abuse having been made.
12 And because perpetrators were held in such high
13 esteem, they were able to spend time alone with children
14 without query or question, in particular because it was
15 often related to the religious development of the child
16 in question.
17 Perpetrators groom the children by showing them
18 kindness, attention and encouragement, but also,
19 importantly, by building strong relationships with their
20 family and others around them, often being seen as
21 either a close family friend or a spiritual adviser.
22 When disclosures were then made, individuals who
23 have come forward on behalf of the Truth Project have
24 informed us that the reputation of the religious
25 community was seen as paramount and, therefore, when
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1 religious community. That does involve, or can involve,
2 children and young people. We need to know what the
3 nature of that activity is. That is what happens and
4 who runs it. As an investigation, we can't know if
5 there is any need at all for any sort of regulation or
6 oversight unless we have an idea of what's being
7 provided, when and where.
8 We also wish to understand and know about the
9 arrangements for ensuring adequate child protection in
10 those contexts, which includes finding out the following
11 information:
12 Firstly, what checks are made of either staff or
13 volunteers if they participate in those activities and
14 if any checks are made of those who wish to become
15 religious leaders, elders or others who have some form
16 of religious or pastoral authority over others in the
17 religion community even if they do not undertake youth
18 work personally.
19 We next want to know whether or not promotion to
20 more senior positions takes adequate account of those
21 religious elders', or those who have -- spiritual or
22 pastoral authorities' responses to child protection
23 issues and whether or not their ability to manage and
24 deal with such issues are part and parcel of any
25 promotion.
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 Next, we want to look at how far elders, faith
2 leaders or senior members of the organisation deal
3 appropriately with issues of child protection and
4 initiate change to improve practices and processes in
5 the culture of the organisation. How far are they aware
6 of any child sexual abuse within their setting? And
7 have they taken any steps to identify or remedy
8 inadequacies they have found and, if not, why not?
9 Next, how far are structures in place within the
10 religious organisation a barrier to dealing with, or
11 managing, child protection concerns effectively or
12 efficiently and how far do they, or can they, impact
13 upon the responses to those who have been abused?
14 Fourth, what sort of examination takes place of the
15 suitability of individuals to undertake this work, ie by
16 way of interviews and references? And what supervision
17 is there of youth work by other members of the religious
18 organisation? What training is on offer for those who
19 undertake this work, from whom, how often and whether
20 it's voluntary or mandatory?
21 Next, whether those who act as religious leaders,
22 elders or those who are responsible for delivering
23 collective worship or who have spiritual or pastoral
24 authority have any particular training in respect of
25 child protection? And, again, whether this is
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1 Are there any powers which members of the religious
2 community have over each other to administer directions,
3 to make individuals attend training or to comply with
4 the policies on offer? Even if there are such
5 directions, are they ever acted upon? Are people
6 directed to do things in practice? Are there any powers
7 of internal discipline for those within the religious
8 community, both those who lead the community, operate
9 some form of spiritual authority or those who are part
10 of the community, if they have failed in their child
11 protection duties? How do these powers of discipline
12 operate and how are they administered?
13 Next, we want to hear about reporting abuse. We
14 want to look at how allegations of abuse are dealt with
15 when reported. This will include examining whether or
16 not there are any formal policies and, if there aren't
17 any formal policies, whether there are any informal
18 policies, what they are and how they operate. Whether
19 or not there are any whistleblowing or complaints
20 policies and practices and whether they are used. What
21 steps are taken to encourage those who have been
22 sexually abused to make disclosures, if any? How are
23 individuals treated when they have disclosed abuse and
24 how does an organisation react to an allegation of
25 sexual abuse? Are any reparations offered? Is any
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1 compulsory or voluntary.
2 Is there anyone within the organisation who acts, it
3 is known in some organisations, as a designated
4 safeguarding lead or a child protection officer or
5 a children's officer? Is there anyone there within the
6 organisation who is responsible for dealing with reports
7 of alleged sexual abuse or who is responsible for
8 providing guidance and advice, whether that's at an
9 individual level or a regional level or a national
10 level, if they are organisations which have those sorts
11 of structures? If so, who are they, what do they do,
12 and what sort of experience and training have they had?
13 Are there any child protection policies in place?
14 Again, what are they, when were they implemented and how
15 are they put in place in practice?
16 Next, is there any spiritual guidance on the subject
17 of child protection or advice which is given by way of
18 religious guidance or religious messages which are used
19 in respect of child protection issues and, if so, how
20 this is disseminated within the organisation. If the
21 organisation operates from more than one geographical
22 place, are there offices or agencies at a local level,
23 at a regional level or at a national level which oversee
24 child protection work? What do they do and how do they
25 operate?
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1 redress offered? What psychological support or
2 counselling is available, if any, either from within the
3 organisation or from external bodies? How do any
4 internal investigations work and what happens in
5 practice? What records are kept by the organisation in
6 respect of any allegations made? Is there any
7 communication between the different parts of the
8 organisation or between different religious
9 organisations about allegations?
10 How far does the structure of the organisation or
11 the way that it is managed or governed impact upon its
12 ability to minimise sexual abuse or to ensure an
13 adequate response to any complaints of such?
14 We also want to know about the interrelationship
15 between the religious organisation and statutory
16 authorities. Are there processes in place for reporting
17 allegations concerning sexual abuse to be able to be
18 made either to social services or to the police?
19 If there aren't such, should there be? Should they
20 be compulsory? If so, what sort of compulsion should be
21 used?
22 Should there be a disciplinary offence or criminal
23 offence of not reporting child sexual abuse or for
24 concealing sexual offending?
25 What are the barriers to the reporting of abuse?
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 Are they structural? Are they to do with governance?
2 Are they to do with awareness? Are they to do with
3 culture? And, if so, of the organisation or of our
4 society as a whole?
5 Are there instances where abuse has not been
6 reported because of concerns about the reputational risk
7 to the religious organisation?
8 Are there adequate information sharing arrangements
9 in place between one religious organisation and another,
10 and between the religious organisations, the police and
11 social services?
12 We also know that religious organisations have, very
13 often, at the heart of their mission, the care of the
14 vulnerable and that that sometimes includes the care of
15 those who may have offended, including those who have
16 committed sexual offences.
17 We wish to know if there are processes in place,
18 however, where those individuals who have committed
19 sexual offences, if they are likely to come into contact
20 with children and young people, are assessed in respect
21 of any risk they may pose. If they do, who does it, and
22 whether or not there is any involvement from statutory
23 organisations such as MAPPA or the Probation Service
24 and, if there are formal child protection or covenant of
25 care agreements, as they are sometimes called, if they
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1 wishes to identify whether or not there should be any
2 additional external oversight and, if so, in what form
3 that should, may or ought to take.
4 We know that at present there is no particular
5 regulation or specific oversight of child protection
6 policies and practices within religious organisations by
7 either the Department of Education, Ofsted, the Social
8 Services Investigation Departments in Wales, the
9 Welsh Government or Estyn, unless they provide
10 nurseries, full-time schooling, registered social care
11 facilities or other facilities which are registered with
12 those organisations.
13 The Charity Commission does require that all
14 religious organisations which are registered as
15 charities do have what they call a "safeguarding policy"
16 and trustees have to declare that they have such.
17 We also understand that the Charity Commission have,
18 on a small number of occasions, looked at religious
19 organisations and their child protection policies by way
20 of a regulatory investigation which they call
21 a "statutory inquiry".
22 We also know that where individuals undertake
23 regulated activities, they must have a relevant check
24 made to the Disclosure and Barring Service, which
25 provides details not only of whether or not they have
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1 are put in place between the worshipper and the
2 religious organisation and how that actually works in
3 practice.
4 We also want to know whether or not the religious
5 organisation undertakes any form of monitoring,
6 auditing, reviews or assurance processes to examine
7 their practices and procedures in respect of child
8 protection, whether that's internally by way of someone
9 within the organisation checking what's going on or some
10 form of external auditing or assurance process.
11 We also want to know what sort of resources, both
12 financial and by way of people, are allocated to deal
13 and manage with child protection issues within the
14 organisation and whether or not it is considered that
15 those resources are sufficient.
16 We also wish to explore whether or not there's been
17 any interfaith work, either work between organisations
18 of the same religious tradition, or ecumenical work
19 between organisations to develop any common set of
20 standards, approaches or training materials which may
21 assist in other religious organisations.
22 This investigation will ultimately wish to examine
23 what, if any, external oversight there is by statutory
24 bodies, such as the Charity Commission, of child
25 protection practices and processes at present. It also
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1 a criminal record, but also whether or not they've been
2 barred from working in regulated activity previously.
3 However, we also know that it is not possible to ask
4 for an enhanced check if individuals do not undertake
5 what is known as "regulated activity".
6 Regulated activity has a complex definition and this
7 investigation wishes to explore whether or not that
8 definition currently captures the types of situations
9 and relationships which are commonly found within
10 religious organisations.
11 Examination of the question of any form of external
12 or internal regulation will require us to look at the
13 following issues:
14 Should there be a common set of basic standards
15 applicable across religious organisations in relation to
16 how they manage child protection issues;
17 Should there be a form of registration scheme for
18 bodies which run activities for children which would
19 require the meeting of certain minimum standards about
20 keeping children safe. If there should be such
21 a scheme, should that be voluntary or compulsory.
22 Should there be any form of inspection, whether by
23 a body commissioned by a religious organisation or an
24 external body, of the provision for children and young
25 people run by religious organisations?
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 Could there, or should there, be a common set of
2 policies, training materials or even a common basic
3 qualification for faith leaders in respect of child
4 protection?
5 As I have already identified, we wish to look at
6 whether the current system of vetting as operated by the
7 Disclosure and Barring Service, adequately serves the
8 needs of religious organisations and communities, and in
9 particular, firstly, whether the definition of
10 "regulated activity" is sufficient to encompass the
11 activities undertaken by religious organisations and the
12 types of spiritual authority that individuals may have.
13 Secondly, whether the definition of "regulated
14 activity" is sufficiently clear to religious
15 organisations and enables those organisations to know
16 who will be checked and on what basis.
17 Lastly, whether or not, in fact, the current system
18 of checking and vetting is excessively onerous on
19 religious organisations and institutions.
20 We also wish to examine whether the current guidance
21 available from the Department of Education in England
22 and the Welsh Government in Wales provides adequate
23 information for religious organisations and settings as
24 to their duties and responsibilities.
25 We are aware that the Department of Education has
Page 25
1 published on the inquiry's website or by being mentioned
2 or what we call "adduced" by counsel to the
3 investigation, either during the opening or during the
4 hearing, so that it forms part of the material which the
5 inquiry will consider when reaching its conclusions and
6 within its written report.
7 Within the context of this investigation, we are
8 focusing largely upon obtaining and receiving witness
9 evidence with accompanying documents exhibited to them
10 from various individuals and organisations in order to
11 seek to build as comprehensive a picture as possible of
12 the issues which I have outlined above.
13 To that end, since this investigation was announced
14 in May 2019, we have already started to make a series of
15 formal requests for witness evidence and information
16 which is known under the Inquiry Rules as a rule 9
17 request.
18 In this investigation, unlike others, we have not
19 sought to obtain documentary material in advance of
20 asking for witness requests in the vast majority of
21 cases, because the sheer scale and nature of such would
22 be absolutely overwhelming and would not necessarily
23 assist us in having a hearing which can scrutinise what
24 happens now and what should happen in the future.
25 To date, we have made a number of requests for
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1 recently published a consultation document about
2 a voluntary code of practice for out-of-school settings
3 which includes an advice and checklist of matters which
4 an organisation providing youth or voluntary services
5 should have regard to.
6 Having now identified the issues and themes we wish
7 to explore during the course of the hearing, I will now
8 turn to the management of the hearings and the way that
9 we will deal with the process.
10 Given the breadth of this investigation, the inquiry
11 is mindful of the need to act proportionately in the
12 manner in which it envisages and marshals the
13 documentary information and the oral hearings. As you
14 have already seen, there are a large number of core
15 participant groups.
16 We will seek to focus carefully within oral evidence
17 the central points which arise from witness material
18 gathered. We will also focus carefully as to who will
19 come to give evidence and we may not hear -- in fact,
20 it's highly unlikely we will be able to hear -- oral
21 evidence about every religious organisation examined in
22 this part of the investigation. Any oral evidence we do
23 seek will be directed to a particular theme or issue.
24 Where additional evidence may be relevant to the
25 issues, then it may be put in evidence by being
Page 26
1 witness statements. By a "witness statement", we mean
2 written information about the themes set out above in
3 a paginated form, signed or authored by someone within
4 the religious organisation who has knowledge and
5 familiarity with practices or processes or by a number
6 of individuals, if that is more appropriate, and setting
7 out a statement of truth at the bottom.
8 We have already made requests to charities which
9 represent children, such as the NSPCC, who we know have
10 done work with various religious organisations,
11 providing training materials, consultancy and other
12 advice, and who also run the national helpline for
13 children called ChildLine.
14 We have also approached interfaith organisations,
15 such as the Faith Forums for London and the Interfaith
16 Network for the UK, to ask those organisations what work
17 it does and what information sharing or discussion has
18 taken place on an interfaith basis. We have also
19 written to some, but not all, religious organisations
20 with a presence within England and Wales and intend to
21 write to others in the very near future.
22 We are unlikely to be able to write to every single
23 religious organisation, even if we could compile a list
24 of those which existed, but hope to have a spread from
25 those with a significant number of adherents within
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1 England and Wales.
2 We will also be writing to religious organisations
3 who provide informal or formal networks of advice and
4 assistance to each other or act as umbrella groups: for
5 example, the Evangelical Alliance or the Muslim Council
6 of Britain. We are also writing to organisations who
7 work with religious organisations and settings to
8 provide advice, training or consultancy in relation to
9 child protection work to ask for information and
10 evidence about the work they have undertaken.
11 We will also be writing to a number of survivor
12 organisations who represent and provide advocacy
13 services to those who have suffered sexual abuse in
14 a religious context.
15 We also wish to have some evidence from individual
16 victims and survivors about their experience of
17 institutional response to abuse, and their views as to
18 the current process of reparations by religious
19 organisations.
20 We will also be writing to local authorities as well
21 as their relevant partner agencies to ask what
22 particular work they undertake with religious
23 organisations and settings and if there are any
24 particular issues which arise from their perspective
25 about policies, practices and processes of such
Page 29
1 and we will be sending rule 9 requests to all core
2 participants, all of whom fall within one of those other
3 categories I have previously mentioned.
4 Once it has received this witness evidence and
5 accompanying documentation, the investigation team will
6 determine which documents and what information are
7 relevant. The inquiry then seeks to determine which
8 witness statements may shed light or provide information
9 relating to any of the issues I set out earlier.
10 Once a document has been identified as relevant, it
11 is then reviewed by the investigation team for the
12 purposes of what we call "redaction". For those
13 unfamiliar with the expression, which is some of the
14 people in this room, but not all of them, I do
15 recognise, so I apologise to some of you for teaching
16 you something which you already know, redaction is the
17 mechanism by which words or passages in documents are
18 blanked out and anonymised so that they cannot be
19 physically read. Redactions are applied in this case in
20 accordance with version 3 of the inquiry's protocol on
21 the redaction of documents, which is available from the
22 inquiry's website. The team may also apply ciphers
23 where this is necessary to protect the names of
24 individuals.
25 Once the document has been reviewed in this way,
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1 organisations in respect of their response to child
2 sexual abuse from the experience they have, if any.
3 We will also be writing to the Charity Commission,
4 which is the body which provides a degree of oversight
5 into the management of charities by trustees at present.
6 We recognise that not every religious organisation is
7 a registered charity, but a large number of them are.
8 The Charity Commission has recently provided
9 guidance to both charities and trustees about their
10 child protection responsibilities. We will also be
11 writing to other associations and bodies which have an
12 interest in this area or represent individuals who work,
13 volunteer or are involved in advising such
14 organisations. We will also be obtaining material from
15 relevant statutory bodies such as the Department for
16 Education, the Welsh Assembly, the Department for
17 Digital Culture, Media and Sport, the Home Office, the
18 Disclosure and Barring Service, the Ministry of Housing,
19 Communities & Local Government, which we understand runs
20 and provides training on child protection issues for
21 religious leaders, and bodies which provide regulation
22 or inspection of other significant providers of youth or
23 social care services in England and Wales.
24 We will also be taking material from those places
25 which train religious leaders within England and Wales
Page 30
1 it's sent back with the redactions to the person that
2 sent the document in, who we call, for these purposes,
3 the "material provider", for them to check that they are
4 happy with the redactions made.
5 If any core participant has any query regarding any
6 aspect of this process, the investigation team are happy
7 to address them after this hearing.
8 The protocol on redaction sets out in full the
9 different circumstances in which redaction will take
10 place, but the principal reason relates to the need to
11 respect the privacy and protect the identification of
12 certain categories of individuals or information about
13 certain individuals.
14 Where an individual name or other confidential
15 material about them is set out in documents but is not
16 relevant, instead of a cipher, the inquiry will simply
17 blank out the information and overwrite this by stating
18 that a particular name, place or information has been
19 redacted.
20 The inquiry is alive to the need to ensure that
21 there is no jigsaw identification of individuals subject
22 to anonymity or ciphers and has taken steps to ensure
23 not just anonymisation of names but other specific
24 details which could lead, by deduction, to
25 identification.
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1 One of the primary reasons that we share all
2 redacted material with the material provider who
3 originally gave them to us is to ensure that the
4 processes have been adequately followed, to avoid
5 inadvertent identification.
6 I would like to impress, therefore, upon all
7 material providers the importance of a careful review of
8 the material which has been provisionally redacted and
9 I am grateful to them for their time and careful
10 attention to what is an exceptionally important task.
11 Once provisional redactions have been applied and
12 agreed, the documents are then shared electronically by
13 the person or institution who originally provided it
14 with them. Once they have had the opportunity to
15 comment on the proposed redactions and any additional
16 redactions have been made, the material is then
17 transferred to the core participant database, which is
18 known for the purposes of this inquiry as Relativity,
19 where it can be accessed by all core participants with
20 a specific interest in that material.
21 It is hoped that we will send out all requests for
22 witness statements by the end of September 2019 and we
23 will have received all relevant material
24 by December 2019 so that disclosure can take place in
25 good time before the hearing. We are reliant upon
Page 33
1 the first stage and so the need for supplementary
2 statements should hopefully be limited.
3 I now turn to the issue of legal representation.
4 Many of you here today are not legally represented. The
5 inquiry would encourage you to consider being legally
6 represented for the next phase of the inquiry's work and
7 at any ultimate hearing. In certain circumstances, the
8 inquiry can assist in the provision of funding for legal
9 expenses, as the chair has the power to make awards
10 which cover reasonable legal costs for those who give
11 evidence to the inquiry. This is under section 40 of
12 the Inquiries Act 2005.
13 Again, there is a protocol for such, known as the
14 cost protocol, available on the website, which I would
15 urge all of you to read. Decisions about the provision
16 of reasonable legal expenses are made on a case-by-case
17 basis.
18 Please discuss matters with Ms Nicholls, the
19 investigation lawyer who is sat at the front, if needs
20 be, after the hearing, or by email subsequently.
21 Chair, I invite you to make a direction for any
22 applications for funding under section 40 of the
23 Inquiries Act 2005 to be sent to the solicitor to the
24 inquiry in the manner set out in the guidance on the
25 website no later than 4.00 pm on 30 August 2019.
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1 everyone responding quickly and efficiently to our
2 requests for witness evidence.
3 Draft rather than finalised signed statements are
4 requested at first, so that the inquiry can consider
5 whether any additional matters arise and need to be
6 addressed in the statement. Once the investigation team
7 has reviewed and provided feedback on the draft, it is
8 then sent back to the witness to sign. An electronic
9 version of the signed statements is then disclosed to
10 core participants.
11 We are however, as you would imagine, reliant upon
12 receiving material within good time in order to make
13 good progress for this.
14 We do not envisage that it will be necessary to call
15 all those who provide witness statements to give oral
16 evidence. The purpose of the oral hearings is to put
17 the key material before the public and let the panel
18 hear from the most significant individuals involved, and
19 we hope that most, if not all, witness statements and
20 relevant documents will have been disclosed to all
21 participants by the end of January 2020.
22 It may be possible that information found within
23 witness statements will lead to further witness evidence
24 being gathered once we have seen the drafts, but it is
25 hoped that the process will be relatively exhaustive at
Page 34
1 I now turn to the hearing dates.
2 The inquiry panel will sit for two weeks from
3 16 March 2020 to 27 March 2020, inclusive. Normal
4 sitting hours will be from 10.00 am to 4.15 pm and the
5 panel will sit five days a week with a break for lunch
6 and also short breaks for the transcribers, both during
7 the morning and afternoon sessions.
8 It is likely that on a Friday we will try and break
9 earlier than 4.15 to meet the requirements of sunset for
10 those who have religious observance at that time.
11 It is not possible, at this stage, to set out which
12 witnesses will be asked to give evidence and when they
13 will be asked to attend. All those who are likely to be
14 asked to give live evidence will be informed of such at
15 some point in January or early February 2020 and asked
16 for dates when they cannot attend.
17 The inquiry will hold a further preliminary hearing
18 at 10.30 am on 14 January 2020 to set out a more
19 detailed outline for the hearing and to deal with all
20 relevant issues and housekeeping matters that may have
21 arisen by that stage.
22 Anyone who does come to give evidence will have
23 a chance to familiarise themselves with the hearing room
24 here at Pocock Street and can be provided with
25 appropriate counselling and emotional support, both
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1 before, during and after any evidence which is given.
2 The inquiry will not compel anyone who is a victim
3 and survivor of sexual abuse to give oral evidence if
4 they do not wish to do so. The timetable, to summarise,
5 is likely to be as follows:
6 Disclosure of witness statements by the end
7 of December 2019/beginning of January 2020.
8 The proposed witness list circulated around
9 mid-January 2020.
10 Core participants then have a chance to comment upon
11 the timetable within a reasonable period thereafter.
12 There will then be witness evidence proposals for
13 live witnesses which will be circulated at least two to
14 three weeks before they are due to give evidence, and
15 any submissions on the evidence proposals to be made
16 shortly thereafter.
17 We can make reasonable adjustments for an
18 individual's disability or health condition if they are
19 coming to give evidence, and also have facilities to
20 give evidence by videolink if required.
21 I now turn to broadcasting.
22 The previous chair made a general ruling on the
23 broadcasting of proceedings in April 2016, such that
24 hearings would be live streamed on the internet subject
25 to a five-minute delay. Chair, you made a ruling
Page 37
1 excluded from the hearing room during the course of
2 anonymous witness testimony. They are able to watch
3 proceedings in the annex subject to the relevant delay.
4 I now turn to core participant determinations.
5 The inquiry received 33 applications for core
6 participant status and the chair has designated the
7 following 20 individuals and organisations as core
8 participants to this investigation.
9 Firstly, the Home Office, which we understand acts
10 in this investigation as a representative of all
11 government departments with an interest in the issues
12 under consideration.
13 Next, the Charity Commission, Ofsted, the Pagan
14 Federation, the United Reformed Church, the Baptist
15 Union of Great Britain, the Christian Congregation of
16 Jehovah's Witnesses, the Evangelical Alliance, which we
17 understand is an umbrella organisation representing and
18 advocating for a large number of Evangelical Christian
19 organisations, churches and individuals across a range
20 of denominations within the UK, the United Synagogue,
21 Liberal Judaism, the Senior Rabbi to Reform Judaism, the
22 Union of Hebrew Congregations, the Interfaith
23 Alliance UK, which I have already described,
24 Thirtyone:eight, an independent Christian safeguarding
25 charity. Next, Ex-JW Advocates Opposing Crimes Against
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1 in June 2018 which adopted this in all other
2 investigations, subject to a three- rather than
3 a five-minute delay, and I remind everyone of that
4 amendment now.
5 The current arrangements for broadcasting the
6 substantive public hearings are as follows:
7 Firstly, there is seating, as you can see, both in
8 the hearing room and in an annex which will show a video
9 of the proceedings with a three-minute delay.
10 Secondly, live text-based communications are
11 permitted from the annex room, but not the hearing room
12 itself.
13 A live transcript of proceedings will be provided
14 and is available on screens within the inquiry room, and
15 transcripts of oral evidence will be posted to the
16 website after the hearing has finished.
17 For those core participants and witnesses who have
18 anonymity, the following special measures can be made
19 available: witnesses will give their evidence in the
20 hearing room. However, they will not be filmed during
21 their testimony and the camera, instead, will be
22 directed at the panel or counsel to the investigation
23 and not them; the voices of all anonymous witnesses can
24 be distorted, if a request is made in advance, to avoid
25 identification; members of the public and press are
Page 38
1 Children, a group of survivors of child sexual abuse,
2 former elders and former members of the Jehovah's
3 Witnesses who were active within the religious
4 organisation within the UK.
5 Next, Migdal Emunah, a registered charity and
6 voluntary agency which provides a support service for
7 Jewish victims of sexual abuse and their families. Then
8 Lisa Oakley, an expert researcher and survivor advocate
9 specialising in abuse in faith settings, particularly in
10 connection with Christian denominations and the current
11 chair of the National Working Group on child abuse
12 linked to faith and belief.
13 Next, Yasmin Rehman, a victim and survivor advocate,
14 researcher, expert and policy specialist, working in
15 areas of violence against women and girls and
16 safeguarding of children and adults in faith settings,
17 particularly those relating to Muslim and South Asian
18 communities. She is currently the Chief Executive
19 Officer of JUNO Women's Aid.
20 Next, Sadia Hameed, a victim and survivor advocate
21 working in the areas of sexual violence against women
22 and girls and the protection of children and vulnerable
23 adults in faith settings within the Muslim community.
24 She is the current director of Gloucestershire Sisters,
25 who I have already described.
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1 And last, Southall Black Sisters, a not-for-profit
2 organisation which works to support black and ethnic
3 minority women, offering advice, advocacy, counselling
4 and other services as a result of violence or sexual
5 violence.
6 Provisional determinations have been issued in
7 respect of a number of applications which the chair is
8 not presently minded to grant. The following have not
9 sought to renew their applications, and so the inquiry
10 will finalise and publish the determinations refusing
11 them core participant status after this hearing.
12 They are: the Catholic Council for the Independent
13 Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse; secondly, Nahamu;
14 thirdly, Amina Lone; fourthly, PR-A1; fifth, PR-A2;
15 sixth, PR-A3; seventh, PR-A4; and eighth and ninth,
16 PR-A7 and PR-A8.
17 We have two applications from individuals we will
18 call PR-X1 and PR-X2, which were declined, and we are
19 unclear whether or not they are renewing their
20 application. If they do so, the investigation will deal
21 with that at that time.
22 The following individuals have sought to renew their
23 application and will do so now in the following order,
24 speaking for no more than ten minutes each.
25 Firstly, Mr Richard Scorer on behalf of
1 James Lloyd Evans, known, as I understand it, as
2 Lloyd Evans. Next, Mr Manny Waks, the Chief Executive
3 Officer of Kol v'Oz, and then Mr Thomas Beale, solicitor
4 on behalf of individuals whom the inquiry is calling
5 PR-A5, PR-A6 and PR-A9.
6 Before they speak, and for the benefits of other
7 core participants, I will briefly summarise their
8 applications and provide you, chair, with the relevant
9 Inquiry Rules.
10 Mr Evans is a former elder of the Jehovah's
11 Witnesses who is a campaigner, advocate and activist who
12 works with those who have left the organisation,
13 including those who have been subject to alleged child
14 sexual abuse within it. He has a high public and social
15 media presence, he has written articles, books, and runs
16 a website on the subject.
17 Next, Mr Waks is the Chief Executive of Kol v'Oz
18 which provides support internationally for those within
19 the Jewish community who have been subject to sexual
20 abuse. He was involved in the Australian Royal
21 Commission into Sexual Abuse and he identifies, in
22 written submissions he has already made to you, chair,
23 that he has assisted a number of victims and survivors
24 of such abuse within the United Kingdom.
25 He identifies that the support often is provided by

Page 41 Page 42

1 him because the size of the Jewish community in the UK 1 response to allegations of child sexual abuse and
2 means that there is a risk of community members becoming 2 whether or not the oversight of the Jehovah's Witnesses
3 aware of sexual abuse, if individuals are told, within 3 community should be different.
4 England and Wales. 4 I remind you, chair, of rule 5 of the Inquiry Rules
5 Mr Waks also identifies he has had dealings and 5 2006. You have a power to designate someone as a core
6 communications with the relevant institutions which 6 participant and can take into account all relevant facts
7 represent Judaism in England and Wales during this time 7 and matters, but must in particular consider if: (a) the
8 including the Chief Rabbi. 8 person has played a direct and significant role in
9 He identifies that his status as someone who is 9 relation to the matters to which the inquiry relates; or
10 outside the UK may make it easier for him to raise 10 (b) the person has a significant interest in an
11 issues which are considered to be controversial or 11 important aspect of the matters to which the inquiry
12 sensitive for those within the Jewish community without 12 relates; or (c) the person may be subject to explicit or
13 fear of repercussion. 13 significant criticism in any report published by the
14 PR-A9 was a senior member of the Jehovah's Witnesses 14 inquiry. It is for you, chair, to decide if the
15 for many years. His position of authority means he 15 interest is significant in the context of this
16 submits that he is able to deal first hand with the 16 investigation.
17 approach of the Jehovah's Witnesses to child protection 17 I also remind you that within the update note issued
18 and he has lived experience of sexual abuse within that 18 with the scope of this investigation, it was made clear
19 organisation. 19 that this investigation is not focused upon any
20 He has also been in touch with significant numbers 20 individual case study or any particular religious
21 of individuals who have also been victims of sexual 21 organisation, but seeks to look at common issues across
22 abuse. 22 a number of religious organisations and how those issues
23 PR-A5 and PR-A6 again were members of Jehovah's 23 can be met and overcome.
24 Witnesses. Mr Beale will submit that they can provide 24 It is also not specifically focused upon the
25 a significant role in relation to dealing with the 25 examination in any detail of any one particular

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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 individual experience of sexual abuse. I now hand over
2 to Mr Scorer to make his submissions.
3 Submissions by MR SCORER
4 MR SCORER: Thank you, chair. As Ms Scolding has explained,
5 this is a renewal of a core participant's application on
6 behalf of James Lloyd Evans. Chair, as you know,
7 Mr Evans is a former Jehovah's Witness who now works as
8 an activist campaigner and documentary maker on behalf
9 of former Jehovah's Witnesses, including many survivors
10 of sexual abuse.
11 Chair, in your determination of this application,
12 you explained that you don't consider that Mr Evans has
13 a sufficient interest and you don't consider that he has
14 played a significant role. You also point out that core
15 participant status has been awarded to a group of
16 survivors of abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses and
17 you also point out that this investigation is thematic
18 rather than based on case studies.
19 Chair, what we say about this is as follows:
20 First of all, whether this investigation is thematic
21 or however it's defined, in order for it to be
22 a meaningful investigation, then you will need, over the
23 course of the investigation, to reach
24 a properly-informed view as to whether the religious
25 groups that you're looking at in this investigation are
Page 45
1 concerned, we say that nobody is in fact better
2 qualified to comment on that, and to provide evidence of
3 that, than Mr Evans is.
4 You know from his application that Mr Evans is
5 a former member and a former elder of the Jehovah's
6 Witnesses. That in itself is valuable experience which
7 many others may not have, but he is also a great deal
8 more than that. He is somebody, I think it's right to
9 say, who is the only full-time ex-Jehovah's Witness
10 advocate in the world. His day job solely involves
11 keeping abreast of the latest developments within the
12 Jehovah's Witnesses across the board, across the whole
13 spectrum of the religion, but also including,
14 specifically, its policies on child sex abuse and how
15 these are impacting on the lives of victims and
16 survivors. We set out in the application his extensive
17 writings and his extensive documentary films on exactly
18 those issues, and the simple fact is that nobody is
19 spending as much time as he is on analysing what's going
20 on in the Jehovah's Witnesses now and nobody has written
21 and researched it as extensively as he has.
22 Chair, of course it's right to say that the
23 contribution of individual survivors will be important,
24 we don't seek to detract from that in any way. What we
25 do say is that there is nobody who is following this
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1 truly committed to child protection and are truly able
2 to keep children safe. You are going to have to address
3 that essential question.
4 You will be aware that many organisations have come
5 before this inquiry and have said that they are
6 committed to child protection and have said that
7 children are safe in their hands, but then you found on
8 investigation that often there is a significant gap
9 between rhetoric and reality.
10 You have seen that with the Anglican and Catholic
11 Churches. We would suggest that that gap between
12 rhetoric and reality may be significant for a number of
13 the organisations that you are investigating in this
14 strand. We know that organisations -- and the Jehovah's
15 Witnesses are one -- which have an insular culture and
16 which are cut off from the outside world and may be said
17 to be hostile to outside influence are likely to find it
18 more difficult to deliver proper levels of child
19 protection. We know from the Australian Royal
20 Commission that there are some serious problems in
21 relation to child protection within that organisation.
22 So what we say that your inquiry needs, and what you
23 need, is core participants who are able to help you
24 illuminate that gap between rhetoric and reality, and so
25 far as child protection in the Jehovah's Witnesses is
Page 46
1 organisation, this religious group, as closely as
2 Mr Evans is, so his knowledge and his huge expertise is
3 crucial if this inquiry is to be a meaningful inquiry.
4 Of course, as you have identified in the
5 determination, it's possible for him to contribute to
6 the inquiry by simply being a witness rather than a core
7 participant. But as you know, the reality is that if
8 you are going to be involved in helping to interrogate
9 what an organisation is actually doing on the ground,
10 then in reality he needs to be in a position to see the
11 witness evidence and indeed see any documentation that
12 this organisation will be asked to supply to the
13 inquiry, and he can only do that, in reality, as a core
14 participant.
15 So, chair, that's the basis of our application. We
16 say that it's simply wrong to say that Mr Evans doesn't
17 have a significant interest. The work that he does, the
18 research that he has done, the publications that he's
19 written, the documentaries that he's made, all
20 demonstrate not only that he has a significant interest
21 and has played a significant role, but he has probably
22 done so to a far greater extent than almost any other
23 ex-Jehovah's Witness activist worldwide and, on that
24 basis, it's only right that he should have core
25 participant status.
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1 We say that this inquiry would be much poorer
2 without the benefit of his expertise and, without that
3 expertise, there is a risk that the Jehovah's Witnesses
4 in effect get a free pass.
5 So, chair, that's the basis of our renewal
6 application. Chair, whilst I am on my feet, I know that
7 later on today Mr Barker is to raise some concerns in
8 relation to documents and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
9 I think it's right that I take this opportunity to put
10 on record our support for the concerns that he is
11 raising.
12 The suggestion that any organisation, whether it's
13 the Jehovah's Witnesses or any organisation, would seek
14 to dispose of inconvenient documentation before you get
15 to it -- you, as an inquiry -- is obviously a very
16 serious concern and we would say that if you need to use
17 your powers to prevent that from happening, then you
18 should not hesitate to do so. So we put on record our
19 support for the concerns we understand Mr Barker is to
20 raise later on.
21 Thank you, chair.
22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr Scorer. Mr Waks?
23 Submissions by MR WAKS
24 MR WAKS: Madam chair, I am the head of Kol v'Oz an
25 Israel-based, international, non-government organisation
Page 49
1 representing victims and survivors and their families.
2 Around a dozen other witnesses represented the relevant
3 institutions who are mainly part of the worldwide
4 Chabad-Lubavitch organisation, which is also implicated
5 in issues that are likely to come before this UK
6 inquiry.
7 The Australian Royal Commission's final report and
8 any internet search of media articles relating to the
9 2015 and 2017 public hearings, which I attended in full,
10 reveal that the testimony about what happened within the
11 Jewish institutions in Australia was quite incredible
12 and, to a large degree, unexpected.
13 While some of the general traits discovered by the
14 various Inquiry Commissions in relation to sexual abuse
15 within non-Jewish (largely Christian-denominated)
16 institutions and the behaviour patterns of paedophiles
17 are also common to the Jewish institutions, the
18 Australian Royal Commission had a very specific learning
19 curve regarding specific practices found only in
20 ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities.
21 These include, quite uniquely, laws relating to
22 Mesirah: strict Jewish law prohibitions on bringing
23 civil proceedings or reporting certain types of crimes
24 to secular, ie any non-Jewish, authorities.
25 These strict laws were designed to maintain the
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1 addressing the issue of child sexual abuse in the global
2 Jewish community. "Kol" means "voice" in Hebrew and
3 "Oz" means "courage" or "strength". This is a direct
4 reflection of our work. I am also a survivor of
5 institutional child sexual abuse that transpired in a
6 ultra-Orthodox Chabad institution in Melbourne,
7 Australia.
8 Since 2011, when I was a vice president of the
9 Executive Council of Australian Jewry, the Australian
10 Jewish community's peak national body, I decided to
11 publicly disclose my personal experience of abuse.
12 I have been dedicated to this issue, initially through
13 the organisation I founded in Australia, called Tzedek,
14 "justice" in Hebrew, which is still implementing its
15 work on a domestic level in Australia, and in recent
16 years through Kol v'Oz, which is based in Israel and
17 works closely with stakeholders in many Jewish
18 communities around the world, including in the UK.
19 As noted in my initial application, I was
20 instrumental in Australia's Royal Commission into the
21 Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, which
22 also examined the Australian Jewish community. It was
23 case study numbers 22 and 53 of 57 case studies
24 conducted by the Royal Commission.
25 My father and I were two of six witnesses
Page 50
1 community's insulation from the outside world at least
2 in relation to sensitive issues.
3 These laws emanated from traditional persecution of
4 Jews throughout Europe since medieval times and are now
5 mingled with, and reinforced by, strong emotional
6 responses associated with the Shoah, the 20th century
7 Holocaust in Europe, reinforcing a culture which
8 engenders fear and distrust of state-run, external
9 policing or other government agencies.
10 The Mesirah idealology permeated the approach of the
11 institutions in Australia in covering up decades of
12 sexual abuse, coupled with a high level of pressure on
13 victims/survivors and their families to keep matters
14 within the insular community and under the control of
15 Rabbis.
16 The "code of silence" beyond community boundaries is
17 enforced by penalties of shunning and effective
18 excommunication affecting the wider family of those who
19 make any attempt to alert authorities outside of the
20 insular community's informal channels for resolution of
21 such matters.
22 On a personal note, myself and my family experienced
23 that direct excommunication.
24 I should note, however, that some within the
25 ultra-Orthodox community often tried to minimise or even
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 dismiss the relevance of the concept of Mesirah today.
2 The Australian Royal Commission makes it clear Mesirah
3 is, in fact, a current and significant issue.
4 We are grateful to the inquiry for recognising the
5 important role that Migdal Emunah and its founder,
6 Ms Yehudis Goldsobel, have to play in the inquiry for
7 which they have been granted core participant status.
8 Non-government, non-profit organisations such as
9 Kol v'Oz, Migdal Emunah and Tzedek, founded by founders
10 of sexual abuse within the Jewish community and
11 dedicated to assisting victims and survivors and their
12 families and advocating for systemic reforms to prevent
13 future abuse, mostly did not exist until about 2012,
14 after I went public with my personal story.
15 In considering our renewed application for core
16 participant status, this inquiry will decide whether
17 only Migdal Emunah shall be designated as a core
18 participant for this interest group or whether there is
19 also sufficient public interest, taking into account the
20 prescribed test for deciding on designation of any core
21 participant, in having Kol v'Oz represented by me as an
22 additional core participant, despite Kol v'Oz not being
23 an organisation focused exclusively on UK victims,
24 survivors and institutions.
25 Compared to me seven years ago, when there was
Page 53
1 under rule 9 of the Inquiry Rules 2006. I understand,
2 from a simple reading of the Inquiry Rules, that
3 a rule 9 witness has possibilities of participating in
4 the inquiry beyond submitting a preprepared statement,
5 witness statement, and appearing to give oral evidence
6 and be examined at public hearings.
7 Specifically, under rule 10(3), a rule 9 witness,
8 not a core participant, who has been questioned by the
9 inquiry panel or by counsel to the inquiry, may be asked
10 questions by his or her own recognised legal
11 representative and, where the evidence of another
12 witness is related to his own evidence, the rule 9
13 witness may also apply to the chair to allow his
14 recognised legal representative to question the other
15 witness.
16 Similarly, with a slight contrast, a core
17 representative is permitted, under rule 10(4), to apply
18 to the chair to ask questions of any witness.
19 In each case, either the core participant or the
20 rule 9 witness must, under rule 10(5), state the issues
21 on which questions will be asked and whether such
22 questions raise new issues or, if not, why the
23 questioning.
24 Importantly, a core representative is permitted,
25 under rule 11, to make opening and closing statements
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1 a near-complete absence of this type of advocacy and
2 representation of sexual abuse victims and survivors in
3 the Jewish community, it feels surreal that we are now
4 addressing an issue of potential duplication of
5 resources on the victims' side.
6 In this regard, I wish to assure the inquiry that
7 the very limited resources of Kol v'Oz and Migdal Emunah
8 are deployed very carefully. Both organisations make
9 sure that their already stretched resources are not
10 duplicated.
11 To this end, I am pleased to be here today, having
12 travelled this morning from Israel especially for
13 today's hearing, to explain and further clarify the
14 different, though complementary, focus areas and roles
15 of Kol v'Oz and Migdal Emunah respectively.
16 I must again emphasise Ms Goldsobel and I have
17 worked closely over the years, and I look forward to
18 continuing this beneficial relationship for all
19 concerned, especially to the local Jewish community.
20 In fact, it was after my discussions with
21 Ms Goldsobel, and with her support and encouragement,
22 that we decided to renew our application for core
23 participant status.
24 Pausing here, I wish to acknowledge that IICSA has
25 formally invited Kol v'Oz to provide a witness statement
Page 54
1 through their recognised legal representative or on
2 their own in the absence of legal representation.
3 IICSA's rule 9 request to Kol v'Oz helpfully
4 included a list of 13 questions, plus sub-questions, as
5 a guide to the scope of potential evidence that Kol v'Oz
6 might contribute to the inquiry.
7 The topics which the inquiry has identified in this
8 way include, in addition to questions regarding
9 potential reforms that we are also able to address by
10 reference to experience in similar communities
11 elsewhere, issues that are unique to ultra-Orthodox
12 Jewish communities in both the UK and elsewhere that are
13 only emerging from the shadows very reluctantly in the
14 last few years as a result of the efforts of Kol v'Oz,
15 Migdal Emunah and others. Some of these topics include:
16 "How far religious organisations understand and
17 respond sensitively to child sexual abuse alleged to
18 have taken place within their religious organisations;
19 "Examples of poor or good practice, or particular
20 concerns about aspects of child protection in terms of
21 how relevant religious organisations understand sexual
22 abuse and manage child protection; and
23 "Perspectives of victims and survivors who engage
24 with Kol v'Oz on:
25 "Particular structural or organisational features of
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 a religious organisation which make effective child
2 protection more difficult to deliver; and
3 "Features of religious settings or organisations
4 which can make it more difficult for victims and
5 survivors to (i) disclose their abuse, and (ii) to be
6 responded to adequately by the religious organisation;
7 and
8 "Other issues specific to the particular religious
9 organisations and settings in question which can
10 influence the approach the organisation takes or the
11 responses it makes to child protection concerns."
12 As I have explained with reference to the Australian
13 Royal Commission experience, some of the particular
14 cultural and historical practices within the
15 ultra-Orthodox community will most likely have a strong
16 impact on the evidence which this inquiry will hear, or,
17 as the case may be, not get to hear, due to the
18 restrictions I have mentioned.
19 While Kol v'Oz is able to make a lesser contribution
20 by participation in the inquiry under rule 9, we feel it
21 is in the interests of the inquiry, and in the public
22 interest, that Kol v'Oz be designated as a core
23 participant in addition to Migdal Emunah so that we may
24 make opening and closing submissions on these key issues
25 and have a more appropriate opportunity to contribute in
Page 57
1 IV. Over the years, Migdal Emunah and Ms Goldsobel
2 have been constrained from addressing some matters
3 involving sexual abuse within the UK Jewish community in
4 a more robust way due to the need to balance a more
5 forthright approach with a need to maintain working
6 relationships as best Ms Goldsobel can with the UK's
7 leading Jewish institutions.
8 V. On numerous occasions after liaising closely
9 with Ms Goldsobel, Kol v'Oz and I have taken up
10 significant issues regarding child sexual abuse within
11 the local UK Jewish community institutions, when
12 Migdal Emunah may have faced potential repercussions for
13 doing so. I have elaborated on these matters in more
14 detail in the written information.
15 VI. As Migdal Emunah is subject to inherent
16 limitations in relation to some of the more sensitive
17 matters that are likely to be raised in this inquiry and
18 with respect to, perhaps, some categories of potential
19 witnesses that may appear before the inquiry, we believe
20 it is in the public interest for Kol v'Oz to be present
21 alongside and complementary to Migdal Emunah to "fill
22 the gaps", particularly in those areas where Kol v'Oz
23 has already played an independent role relating to
24 incidents and issues specifically within the UK Jewish
25 community that are outside the usual scope of
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1 real time, including by asking questions of witnesses on
2 these types of specific questions which may be flagged
3 or as arising, perhaps subtly, from the principal
4 questioning of witnesses by counsel assisting the
5 inquiry only as and when such additional questions might
6 add particular value.
7 As stated in our written information, in support of
8 the renewal of our application for core participant
9 status, we welcome the opportunity to further clarify
10 the following in brief summary:
11 I. Kol v'Oz has provided support and advice to
12 numerous victims and survivors of child sexual abuse
13 within the UK Jewish community, together with relevant
14 family members, advocacy groups and other institutions.
15 II. Some UK victims and survivors came to Kol v'Oz
16 rather than reaching out to local support and advocacy
17 groups, because they did not wish to interact with
18 locals with whom they may be familiar, or vice versa,
19 and face the potential consequences associated with
20 exposure of the abuse.
21 III. Based on the above, Kol v'Oz is able to
22 provide input on the issues identified by IICSA, not
23 only from an international perspective, but also with
24 reference to particular situations we have experienced
25 here in the UK.
Page 58
1 Migdal Emunah's activities.
2 I would ask the chair to give significant weight to
3 this issue. Kol v'Oz will provide all the information
4 at its disposal in an honest and forthright manner,
5 without fear or favour whatsoever.
6 VII. Ms Goldsobel is aware that Kol v'Oz is
7 renewing its application on the basis set out above and
8 would be in a position to confirm these critical points.
9 In conclusion, I hope that I have clarified the
10 reasons why Kol v'Oz is an individual organisation that
11 is in a truly unique position to provide input to the
12 inquiry in real time as a core participant in a manner
13 that will add to the input of Migdal Emunah rather than
14 overlapping or duplicating those efforts. We
15 respectfully suggest that such input would be of utmost
16 value to IICSA's investigation into sexual abuse within
17 the UK Jewish community.
18 I trust that madam chair will consider this renewed
19 application favourably on the basis that we have clearly
20 met the criteria of rule 5(2) of the Inquiry Rules for
21 designation of a core participant, and it is very much
22 in the public interest for both Migdal Emunah and
23 Kol v'Oz to work alongside each other in assisting this
24 inquiry to navigate some of the unique and often
25 well-hidden aspects encountered within the
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1 ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities in relation to child 1 5 July 2019, the chair confirmed that she was minded to
2 sexual abuse, to ensure the true position emerges, so 2 decline the applicants, PR-A5 and PR-A6, core
3 that the inquiry is able, also with our respective input 3 participant status in this investigation on the basis
4 and experience, to make recommendations for meaningful 4 that they do not meet the criteria set out in
5 reforms. 5 rule 5(2)(a) and/or (b) of the Inquiry Rules.
6 Thank you. 6 The applicants submit that they are able to provide
7 THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr Waks. 7 the inquiry with important evidence in relation to the
8 MS SCOLDING: Thank you, chair, I don't know whether now 8 themes that this investigation is examining, and that
9 would be the suitable time to maybe have a slightly 9 they do fall into the criteria set out in rule 5(2) of
10 abridged break of just ten minutes? 10 the Inquiry Rules.
11 THE CHAIR: Yes, we will do that, and return at 3.35 pm. 11 The applicants understand that the investigation
12 Thank you. 12 will not examine individual case studies of particular
13 (3.25 pm) 13 organisations as the focus is upon organisational
14 (A short break) 14 structures and child protection policies.
15 (3.35 pm) 15 The chair will be familiar with the factual
16 THE CHAIR: Mr Beale? 16 background of the applicants' own experience as
17 Submissions by MR BEALE 17 survivors of child sexual abuse, as this is
18 MR BEALE: Firstly, I would like to thank the chair for 18 well-rehearsed in the initial application.
19 giving me the opportunity to make oral submissions on 19 In summary, PR-A5 was the claimant in the case of A
20 behalf of applicants PR-A5, PR-A6 and PR-A9 in support 20 v Trustees of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society &
21 of their renewal application for core participant status 21 Others, which was the first claim in the UK where the
22 in this investigation. 22 Jehovah's Witnesses were held vicariously liable for
23 Firstly, I will deal with PR-A5 and PR-A6 jointly 23 child sexual abuse, a case in which I was part of the
24 before moving on to PR-A9. 24 legal team.
25 In the provisional notice of determination dated 25 PR-A6 was a member of the same congregation as

Page 61 Page 62

1 PR-A5, and was abused by the same perpetrator as PR-A5
2 before PR-A5. The elders of the congregation were
3 informed that PR-A6 had been abused by the perpetrator,
4 but their inadequate child protection policies,
5 practices and procedures, that I understand remain in
6 place today, resulted in them failing to take
7 appropriate action and led to PR-A6 suffering years of
8 abuse that could have been prevented.
9 This application is not submitted on the basis that
10 it be considered as an individual case study. Rather,
11 it is the applicant's experience that religious
12 organisations' responses in their cases are systemic of
13 the way in which religious organisations, and in
14 particular the Jehovah's Witnesses, respond to
15 allegations of child sexual abuse, including the
16 provision of pastoral support to complainants, victims
17 and survivors, a theme which this investigation will
18 examine as per paragraph 9(a)(4) of the updated note,
19 dated April 2019.
20 The applicants are in a unique position to assist
21 the inquiry on common issues across religious
22 organisations, particularly the common issues relating
23 to Jehovah's Witnesses and how they can be overcome.
24 Indeed, in the applicants' cases, the religious
25 organisation's failure to respond adequately to PR-A6's
1 initial complaint led to PR-A5 suffering years of sexual
2 abuse which could have been avoided.
3 In accordance with rule 5(2)(a) of the Inquiry
4 Rules, the applicants played a direct and significant
5 role in relation to the matters to which the inquiry
6 relates and, in particular, the religious organisations'
7 responses to allegations of child sexual abuse,
8 including the provision of pastoral support to
9 complainants, victims and survivors, as per
10 paragraph 9(a)(4) of the explanatory notes.
11 Secondly, the applicants have a significant interest
12 in an important aspect of the matters to which the
13 inquiry relates. In particular, whether there needs to
14 be additional and/or different practices and processes
15 of oversight to ensure that children are protected from
16 child sexual abuse within religious organisations and
17 settings, as per paragraph 9(d) of the explanatory note
18 dated April 2019.
19 Again, although the applicants understand that the
20 investigation will be thematic in nature and will not be
21 examining individual case studies, given that, in their
22 experiences, the responses by the religious organisation
23 in their cases are systemic of the way in which the
24 Jehovah's Witnesses and other religious organisations
25 respond to allegations of child sexual abuse, the

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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 applicants are able to provide crucial evidence to the
2 inquiry's examination of the nature and adequacy of
3 current child protection policies, practices and
4 procedures within the Jehovah's Witnesses and religious
5 organisations within England and Wales as per
6 paragraph 4 of the explanatory note. This will assist
7 the inquiry in considering how religious organisations
8 are structured and the policies and practices in place.
9 The applicants can give evidence on what policies
10 and procedures are in place and how these fail to
11 protect them, allowing the inquiry to consider how they
12 can be met and overcome. In addition, the applicants
13 will be able to provide the inquiry with important
14 evidence in relation to religious organisations'
15 training and the understanding of child sexual abuse.
16 The Jehovah's Witnesses are unique in their
17 organisation and structure and in how they respond to
18 allegations of child sexual abuse. I would refer the
19 chair to the initial application which sets out the
20 Jehovah's Witnesses' current child protection policies
21 practices and procedures, such as judicial committees,
22 the two witness rule, shunning and forcing survivors to
23 confront their abuser.
24 Whilst the inquiry is not seeking to examine
25 individual cases, the applicants are able to provide the
Page 65
1 for giving me the opportunity to make oral submissions
2 on the applicant's behalf. Again, in the provisional
3 notice of determination, dated 5 July, the chair
4 confirmed that she was minded to decline the applicant
5 core participant status in this investigation on the
6 basis that he did not meet the criteria set out in
7 rule 5(2)(a) or (b).
8 Again, as set out in the explanatory note
9 dated April 2019, this investigation will not examine
10 individual case studies or particular organisations, but
11 will focus on organisational structures and child
12 protection policies.
13 This application is not submitted on the basis that
14 it be considered as an individual case study, the
15 applicant understands that the investigation will be
16 thematic in nature and will not be considering
17 individual cases. The applicant is not only able to
18 provide helpful evidence on organisational structures
19 and child protection policies, but played both a direct
20 and significant role in relation to the matters to which
21 this inquiry relates and has significant interest in an
22 important aspect of the matter to which the inquiry
23 relates.
24 Taking those in turn, first, in accordance with
25 rule 5(2) of the Inquiry Rules, the applicants played
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1 inquiry with specific evidence on the current child
2 protection policies, practices and procedures of
3 Jehovah's Witnesses and how they are applied in practice
4 including, but not limited to, the impact on survivors
5 which the inquiry will need to examine in order to be
6 able to fully consider common issues across religious
7 organisations and settings and how they can be met and
8 overcome.
9 Finally, in my own experience, having acted for
10 these two applicants and many other survivors of abuse
11 within the Jehovah's Witnesses and other religious
12 organisations generally, given the Jehovah's Witnesses'
13 reluctance to renew their child protection policies
14 previously and engage in open discussion about how these
15 can be improved, I share the applicants' concern that,
16 if they are refused core participant status in this
17 investigation, the inquiry will have limited evidence
18 about the relevant religious organisations which the
19 inquiry needs to hear properly and fully to examine the
20 themes covered by this investigation.
21 In light of these submissions and the applicants'
22 renewed application, I would invite the chair to
23 reconsider the applicants for core participant status.
24 I am now moving on to PR-A9.
25 Again, I would like to thank the chair and the panel
Page 66
1 a direct and significant role in relation to the matters
2 to which the inquiry relates, in particular the themes
3 set out in paragraph 9 of the explanatory note: namely,
4 training in the understanding of child sexual abuse
5 policies and procedures; the arrangements in place to
6 respond to allegations of child sexual abuse, including
7 the provision of pastoral support; internal processes
8 for auditing, inspection or oversight of the child
9 protection practices and procedures.
10 The applicant was a very senior member of
11 a religious organisation -- in his case, the Jehovah's
12 Witnesses -- for many years, holding a position of
13 authority and dealing first hand with religious
14 organisations, child protection policies, practices,
15 procedures and responses to allegations of child sexual
16 abuse, including the provision of pastoral support to
17 complainants, victims and survivors.
18 The applicant was a member of the Jehovah's
19 Witnesses for over 50 years, being brought up in the
20 organisation from age 5. For over 30 years, the
21 applicant served as a ministerial servant, and later an
22 elder, within the organisation, taking the lead within
23 several congregations, having oversight of the teachings
24 that had to be propounded to the members. The applicant
25 was promoted to a higher responsibility, eventually
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 taking part in teaching schools, lecturing to large
2 groups, including thousands at stadiums, and taking the
3 lead in teaching other elders.
4 The applicant can testify that he was in attendance
5 when elders were told not to report matters of child
6 sexual abuse to any police or social services. This
7 became the required position for all elders, with
8 specific instructions only to call the Bethel, the UK
9 headquarters located in London.
10 The applicant has personally attended meetings at
11 the Bethel and London headquarters and has engaged in
12 internal judicial meetings where matters considered
13 a spiritual sin, but, in fact, were a crime, were dealt
14 with and no reporting to the authorities was authorised.
15 The applicant has, over the years, read all of the
16 internal, but private, letters sent to elders, directing
17 them to handle matters within the congregation and not
18 to go outside.
19 The applicant has also seen, read and sent to the
20 inquiry already written directions from Jehovah's
21 Witness headquarters for local elders to destroy
22 documents and private notes relating to judicial
23 meetings, many of those being confessions or decisions
24 involving child sexual abuse.
25 The applicant has experienced child abuse himself
Page 69
1 In the applicant's experience, not only does
2 the religious organisation fail to report abuse, but
3 they do not support the victim when he or she takes the
4 initiative and contacts the appropriate authority. The
5 applicant has attended court cases where the religious
6 organisation's support has even been shown to the abuser
7 and not the victim.
8 The applicant's own experience has been that victims
9 who have taken the step to involve authorities have
10 themselves been dealt with harshly by the religious
11 organisations, sometimes being disfellowshipped --
12 a total shunning by friends, family and congregation.
13 The applicant's own two daughters were disfellowshipped,
14 so he can testify to the inquiry how this action
15 compounds an already broken spirit of a child abuse
16 victim.
17 The applicant is in a unique position to assist the
18 inquiry on common issues across religious organisations
19 and settings and how they can be overcome.
20 The applicant is able to provide crucial evidence to
21 the inquiry's examination of the nature and adequacy of
22 child protection policies, practices and procedures
23 within religious organisations and settings within
24 England and Wales, as per paragraph 4 of the explanatory
25 note.
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1 within a religious organisation, but also, as a father
2 of a victim, the applicant has participated in the
3 internal workings and decision making within a religious
4 organisation that has excluded any police or local
5 authority involvement.
6 Now turning to rule 5(2)(b) of the Inquiry Rules,
7 the applicant has a significant interest in the
8 important aspect of the matters to which this inquiry
9 relates. In particular, whether there needs to be
10 additional and/or different practices, processes or
11 oversight to ensure that children are protected from
12 child sexual abuse within religious organisations and
13 settings as per paragraph 9(d) of the explanatory notes.
14 The applicant has personal experience of the
15 emotional trauma that child sexual abuse has on
16 individuals and is now taking a leading role in
17 supporting and helping many ex-Jehovah's Witnesses
18 overcome their difficulties. The applicant is in touch
19 with hundreds who have been victims within the religion
20 and can testify to the enormity of the problem that the
21 religious organisation fails to recognise and address.
22 The applicant will be able to convey to the inquiry
23 the personal testimony told to him by victims and the
24 first-hand experience of religious organisations'
25 non-cooperation in assisting police with inquiries.
Page 70
1 Again, the Jehovah's Witnesses are unique in their
2 structure and organisation and how they respond to
3 allegations of child sexual abuse. As before, I would
4 refer the chair to the initial application which sets
5 out the Jehovah's Witness' current child protection
6 policies, practices and procedures, such as judicial
7 committees, the two witness rule, shunning and forcing
8 survivors to confront their abuser.
9 As with the other applicants, the applicant is able
10 to provide the inquiry with specific evidence on what --
11 current child protection policies, practices and
12 procedures of the Jehovah's Witnesses, which the inquiry
13 will need to examine in order to be able to fully
14 consider common issues across religious organisations
15 and settings and how they can be met and overcome.
16 Finally, in my own experience, having acted for many
17 survivors of abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses and
18 other religious organisations generally, and given the
19 Jehovah's Witnesses' reluctance to renew their child
20 protection policies, I share the applicant's concern
21 that, if he is refused core participant status, the
22 inquiry will have limited evidence about the relevant
23 religious organisation which the inquiry needs to hear
24 to properly and fully examine themes covered by the
25 investigation.
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 In the light of those submissions and the
2 applicant's renewed application, I would invite the
3 chair to reconsider the applicant for core participant.
4 THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr Beale.
5 Thanks to all of you who have made submissions on
6 renewals. I will, of course, give careful thought to
7 these and you will be informed of my decision in
8 writing, in due course.
9 MS SCOLDING: Chair, just before we pass over to Mr Barker
10 and Mr Brady, I just wanted to identify to everyone that
11 we are now passing over to submissions which have been
12 circulated to all core participants, firstly, by the
13 Ex-JW Advocates Opposing Crimes Against Children and
14 just to identify, their submissions identify, firstly,
15 to ask to refer the preliminary hearing to make further
16 submissions in respect of scope.
17 Secondly, in respect of asking, in effect, for
18 a specific investigation or a more detailed
19 investigation in respect of the Jehovah's Witnesses in
20 the UK.
21 Thirdly, to ask the inquiry to consider whether or
22 not the Jehovah's Witnesses have acted in line with the
23 retention notice which the inquiry issued in 2015.
24 I would simply remind you, Mr Barker will speak for
25 five minutes on that topic on behalf of the Ex-JW
Page 73
1 Counsel to the inquiry's submission is that that
2 particular email says nothing about whether it
3 considered there was, or was not, compliance, simply
4 what the Jehovah's Witnesses' view was of their
5 compliance with that particular section.
6 Unless there's anything further, I now pass over to
7 Mr Barker, thank you .
8 Submissions by MR BARKER
9 MR BARKER: Thank you, Ms Scolding. Thank you, chair.
10 These submissions are made by Hugh James on behalf
11 of Ex-JW Advocates Opposing Crimes Against Children,
12 which I will refer to as "the group" in these
13 submissions, for ease of reference.
14 The group comprises survivors of sexual abuse from
15 Jehovah's Witnesses within the UK, former elders from
16 congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses within the UK and
17 former Jehovah's Witness members who provide support
18 services to survivors of sexual abuse from within
19 Jehovah's Witnesses.
20 First of all, I am grateful for Ms Scolding
21 confirming that there will be a further preliminary
22 hearing in January 2020. That will hopefully somewhat
23 truncate my submissions today but, nevertheless, I will
24 make the point that, in our view, it is absolutely
25 essential that the draft statements, or the statements
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1 Advocates Opposing Crimes Against Children, and then
2 Mr Brady will speak for five minutes on behalf of the
3 Jehovah's Witness organisation.
4 Before they do so, I just make two points. Firstly,
5 I remind you, chair, that this investigation scope is
6 about the management of child protection across a number
7 of religious organisations, it is not meant to be a case
8 study about a particular religious organisation or
9 grouping.
10 I also wish to clarify one particular issue, which
11 is raised by the Jehovah's Witnesses within their
12 submissions. They identify, at paragraph 13, that an
13 email that we sent to them on 14 January 2016 indicated
14 that this inquiry were content with the explanation
15 given by the Jehovah's Witnesses at that time.
16 If I could just identify and read out, in fact, what
17 the email said was:
18 "I am grateful for your confirmation that your
19 organisation is complying with the terms of the
20 Inquiries Act 2005. I note you do not believe you
21 received a copy of the chair's letter, dated
22 23 June 2015, but hope that you will now carefully
23 consider its contents."
24 That letter of 23 June being the letter which
25 identified that records should be kept.
Page 74
1 in full, are circulated to all core participants prior
2 to that further preliminary hearing, so that submissions
3 can be made on the adequacy of those witness statements
4 and on whom should be called to give oral evidence, as
5 it would clearly be a relevant point for my clients to
6 make submissions in relation to.
7 I will, however, deal with my next two points
8 quickly -- I am mindful of the time -- the first being
9 that the inquiry ought to investigate Jehovah's
10 Witnesses here in the UK by way of a specific case study
11 or by way of specific oral evidence; second, that the
12 inquiry ought to investigate a document entitled "2015
13 Checklist for Audit of File".
14 Turning briefly to the scope of the hearings, the
15 group submits that practices such as the two witness
16 rule, spiritual investigations, judicial committees and
17 shunning, all of which are particular to Jehovah's
18 Witnesses as an institution, are barriers to effective
19 and proper safeguarding of children against the risk of
20 sexual abuse.
21 This is based not only on the experiences of those
22 who comprise the group and who are survivors of sexual
23 abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses in the UK, but also on
24 the findings of other similar inquiries, such as the
25 Australian Royal Commission's detailed case study into
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings
1 Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia, which we submit is
2 highly relevant to these hearings.
3 It is therefore submitted that simply a thematic
4 focus is unable to capture the true impact of these
5 practices and a more direct examination of Jehovah's
6 Witnesses as a religious institution is necessary to
7 fulfil the inquiry's mandate to effect changes to
8 protect children from the risk of sexual abuse in
9 non-state institutions.
10 Finally, the group raised an issue in respect of the
11 2015 document entitled "Checklist for Audit for File"
12 which my friend Richard Scorer referred to today as
13 well. That 2015 document instructs elders to destroy
14 from their personal files, by 31 December 2015, all
15 agendas and minutes of elders' meetings, all personal
16 notes taken at elders' meetings and any other personal
17 records, notes or correspondence that refer to
18 particular individuals.
19 Given the wording of this checklist and the
20 unequivocal wording of the retention notice circulated
21 by the inquiry, the group understandably had concerns
22 about the checklist itself and whether it was
23 subsequently amended to ensure compliance with the
24 inquiry's retention notice.
25 The CCJW, as I will refer to them today, had
Page 77
1 position and, further, it goes to an important issue
2 which ought to be dealt with by the inquiry prior to the
3 primary hearings and, I would say, at the later
4 preliminary hearing, or indeed earlier, in relation to
5 disclosure and the retention notice and compliance with
6 that retention notice.
7 The group strongly submits that the inquiry still
8 needs to look into this issue and, given what was said
9 today by Ms Scolding, we would say it's far from
10 resolved. The group looks forward to hearing from the
11 inquiry in respect of these submissions. Thank you.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr Brady, you have five minutes.
13 Submissions by MR BRADY
14 MR BRADY: Thank you, chair, and members of the panel.
15 The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses
16 looks forward to the opportunity to participate in this
17 investigation and to provide accurate information in
18 response to the issues within the scope of the inquiry.
19 For the sake of time, I rely on the written
20 materials that I provided to the inquiry yesterday and
21 I would like to just emphasise two or three points, if
22 I may, in response to some of the submissions.
23 As far as the protection -- the safeguarding policy
24 of Jehovah's Witnesses, I would like to underscore that,
25 Jehovah's Witnesses, their policy is available on their
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1 addressed the point in response in their submissions, as
2 referred to before, and have noted that this issue was
3 resolved to the inquiry's satisfaction in 2016. The
4 CCJW has submitted in those submissions that the
5 checklist requirement to discard personal data did not
6 apply to allegations of child sexual abuse.
7 To this end, I have, this morning, been able to take
8 instructions from a member of the group who was a former
9 Jehovah's Witness elder and most relevantly served as
10 a congregation coordinator in the UK, coordination
11 coordinators being responsible for things like those
12 complying with the checklist. After speaking with him
13 today, I quote:
14 "During my tenure, the UK branch officer of
15 Jehovah's Witnesses regularly instructed and enforced
16 the destruction of documents held by elders in local
17 congregations, some of which contained evidence of
18 crimes unreported to the authorities and some of which
19 related to crimes of which the authorities were already
20 aware."
21 He has confirmed that this included references to
22 child sexual abuse and personal notes of which he saw,
23 and this is contrary to the submissions lodged by CCJW
24 last night.
25 Quite clearly, this is inconsistent with that
Page 78
1 worldwide internet, it's been published in
2 the March 2019 issue of The Watchtower study by
3 congregations worldwide. The point my clients would
4 like to make, or the Christian Congregation would like
5 to make, is that their safeguarding policy is well
6 known. Mr Barker appears to confuse or blend two
7 different issues.
8 One is how Jehovah's Witnesses deal with
9 safeguarding issues, how they protect children, and,
10 secondly, how they deal with when -- cases of sin, once
11 safeguarding has been cared for.
12 The two witness rule, as you have heard, judicial
13 committees, that's all about the second part, is once
14 a child has been protected, how does -- should that
15 person remain within the congregation or not?
16 As far as the scope of the inquiry, Ms Scolding has
17 already set out in detail, and we appreciate the
18 explanation of what the investigation will look at, the
19 lines of enquiry, the lines of investigation, and we
20 submit, sure, that that deals with any issues, any
21 questions, that Mr Barker and his clients may have.
22 It will be adequately addressed by the scope of the
23 investigation as it is. Case studies will not
24 materially contribute to that. It's looking -- case
25 studies are looking retrospectively, not at the current
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 IICSA Inquiry-Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings 23 July 2019

1 situation and not looking forward. In fairness, of
2 course, if there were to be case studies, it should look
3 at all religions that are presently before this
4 investigation.
5 Finally, on the question of the 2015 checklist,
6 chair, if I may draw you to paragraph 12 of my
7 submissions -- and I think this might help to clarify
8 matters for the panel. Paragraph 12 quotes a letter
9 that was written to the inquiry, which in itself quotes
10 a textbook for elders on how to deal with documents.
11 If I may, I would just like to read two paragraphs in
12 their entirety that's quoted in paragraph 12. The
13 letter to the inquiry says:
14 "However, with specific reference to child abuse
15 matters, which would naturally call into question
16 a person's standing as one of Jehovah's Witnesses,
17 elders are instructed to retain any necessary relevant
18 documents, if there are any, indefinitely."
19 And importantly:
20 "This direction to elders is contained in the
21 elders' manual, 'Shepherd the Flock of God' ..."
22 And the next paragraph quotes from that verbatim:
23 "Information concerning an individual accused of
24 child molestation, proved or otherwise, should be placed
25 in congregation's confidential file and marked 'Do Not
1 Destroy' and kept indefinitely."
2 That's been the position of Jehovah's Witnesses for
3 many years. The 2015 checklist was simply something
4 that Jehovah's Witnesses have been using for a number of
5 years in response to Data Protection requirements. But
6 it was quite clear in the letter, and in the checklist
7 itself, it does not apply to material for child
8 protection matters or where there are allegations proved
9 or otherwise of child abuse.
10 I hope those comments are helpful to yourself,
11 chair, and the panel, as consideration is given to
12 Mr Barker's submissions. Thank you.
13 THE CHAIR: Mr Brady, thank you.
14 MS SCOLDING: Chair, I did ask everybody beforehand whether
15 or not they wanted to say anything. Obviously, if the
16 spirit moves anyone, then obviously we are happy to hear
17 any further submissions, but nobody identified they
18 wanted any. I am just casting my eye around the room.
19 No. Chair, I think there are no further submissions
20 from me, thank you.
21 THE CHAIR: Thank you, Ms Scolding. If that's the case,
22 then I want to thank everybody again for attending
23 today, and particularly to those who have had to travel
24 some distance to get here.
25 I note that while some of you have been legally

Page 81 Page 82

1 represented today, a number have not been and, like 1 Submissions by MR BRADY .............................79
2 Ms Scolding, I would encourage core participants to 2
3 consider obtaining representation for the next phase of 3
4 the inquiry's work and for jointly instructing a legal 4
5 representative where appropriate. 5
6 Ms Scolding has already set out the process by which 6
7 decisions around funding for such representation are 7
8 made by the inquiry under section 40 of the 8
9 Inquiries Act 2005. 9
10 Thank you all for your very helpful submissions. 10
11 I am especially grateful to all of you and for what you
11
12 have contributed today. That concludes this preliminary
12
13 hearing. Thank you.
13
14 (4.03 pm)
14
15 (The hearing concluded)
15
16
16
17
17
18 INDEX
19
18
Welcome and opening remarks by THE ...................1 19
20 CHAIR 20
21 Opening remarks by MS SCOLDING .......................2 21
22 Submissions by MR SCORER ............................45 22
23 Submissions by MR WAKS ..............................49 23
24 Submissions by MR BEALE .............................61 24
25 Submissions by MR BARKER ............................75 25

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A 19:22 63:1,3 adequacy 65:2 agreed 33:12 apologise 31:15

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60:16 61:2 62:17 65:12 Afro-Caribbean Anglican 1:18 41:7,9,17 42:8
62:23 63:8,15 additional 23:2 4:12 46:10 applied 12:14
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abused 13:8 14:5 54:4 59:2 agendas 77:15 anonymous 38:23 appropriate 9:24
15:16,19 17:13 adduced 27:2 ago 53:25 39:2 28:6 36:25 57:25

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63:7 71:4 83:5 33:10 49:7,19 73:9,24 better 47:1 41:18 69:8 81:15
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April 37:23 63:19 auditing 22:6,10 83:25 bible 11:10 62:20 7:6 21:25 28:13
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confirmation 74:18 27:7 29:14 44:15 55:9 58:4 75:1 D 83:18 39:3
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